Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:14:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 16:13:16 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have a number of people who are potentially interested in ECD but I can't get them to come out to the local dance. These are not very adventurous people so they are reluctant to "commit" to something they can't picture in their minds. I was hoping to show them a video of "regular people" dancing but I don't have a video camera. Does anybody happen to have video of a ball or some other event? Anita the Lurker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:55:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L665HQ65FE9AMELR-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Anita -- > I have a number of people who are potentially interested in ECD but I > can't get them to come out to the local dance. These are not very > adventurous people so they are reluctant to "commit" to something they > can't picture in their minds. I was hoping to show them a video of > "regular people" dancing but I don't have a video camera. Does anybody > happen to have video of a ball or some other event? The Seattle Ball, just completed, did a videotape which was for sale to attendees in VHS and DVD formats. (I saw a little bit of the unedited footage the next day, and ordered a DVD, but don't have it yet.) Maybe you could get hold of one of those. I don't know if there's a policy that only attendees can buy them. You could ask Paul Bestock (bestockp at oz.net). This may, however, be counterproductive. A ball tape will show people dressed up very fancily, and if walkthroughs/talkthroughs are shown, they'll be very brief. People who are subconsciously looking for an excuse not to go - and I suspect that's what going on with your people, who are unwilling to risk one evening and a small amount of money to find out whether they'll like something without a major sales job - might well find something to be put off by in such a tape. I could, of course, be completely wrong about that, and in any case I admire your efforts to recruit. -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:18:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 23:18:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: still room at the February Fling, 2/28/2004 - Scott Higgs & Hold the Mustard in central NJ, USA To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Anyone within reach of central New Jersey, USA, is warmly invited to join us for the "February Fling" - PCD and LCD's annual festive English dance. (It's a ball without the homework!) The afternoon is open to all; evening by pre-registration - see below. When: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:30-5 and 7:30-11 pm (Dinner on your own - restaurants abound in the neighborhood - or picnic in the dance hall.) Where: Bethany Presbyterian Church, Trenton, NJ, USA Caller: Scott Higgs Band: Hold the Mustard Daniel Beerbohm, flute, clarinet, whistle Barbara Greenberg, violin Paul Prestopino, mandolin, banjo, harmonica, etc. Kathy Talvitie, piano Dancers are expected to know the basic ECD figures and calls; dances will be minimally taught and prompted. Please note that the afternoon is a dance party in itself - not a practice session for the evening. Walk-ins welcome for the afternoon; pre-registration required for the evening; same great band & caller for both! Registration forms are available on paper (email Sue Dupre or call her at 609-844-0459 to request that one be mailed) and on the web at . - Susie Lorand for the Lambertville Country Dancers and Princeton Country Dancers ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 05:35:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:32:08 +0000 (GMT) From: allisonthompson-AT-juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20040204.053231.15926.489989-AT-webmail02.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Millstone has a wonderful documentary, professionally edited, scored, etc. of lots of fun regular people (including children) dancing contra. This may be for sale thru cdss, or certainly from David. WHile not ECD, this gives a wonderful impression of this related form of dance. Allison THompson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 09:15:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:15:20 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Yes, you are right. Some of these people may be looking for an excuse not to go. On the other hand, some may be to afraid to try something for the first time among a group of strangers. I have a memory from childhood of square dancing in a friend's garage with six "ghosts" because we were far too afraid to dance with people we didn't know. That fear lasted for the next 20 years until I went to my first contra dance and discovered that the fun outweighed the scariness. ECD is WAY TOO FUN to leave only to the bold people. I try to encourage the fearful whenever I can. As a teaching assistant in the Statistics Department at U.C. Davis, I helped a number of people get over their computer anxiety. This gives me hope for helping people get over their dance anxiety too. Anybody out there have good dance anxiety stories? Anita >>> winston-AT-SLAC.Stanford.EDU 02/03/04 03:46PM >>> Anita -- > I have a number of people who are potentially interested in ECD but I > can't get them to come out to the local dance. These are not very > adventurous people so they are reluctant to "commit" to something they > can't picture in their minds. I was hoping to show them a video of > "regular people" dancing but I don't have a video camera. Does anybody > happen to have video of a ball or some other event? The Seattle Ball, just completed, did a videotape which was for sale to attendees in VHS and DVD formats. (I saw a little bit of the unedited footage the next day, and ordered a DVD, but don't have it yet.) Maybe you could get hold of one of those. I don't know if there's a policy that only attendees can buy them. You could ask Paul Bestock (bestockp at oz.net). This may, however, be counterproductive. A ball tape will show people dressed up very fancily, and if walkthroughs/talkthroughs are shown, they'll be very brief. People who are subconsciously looking for an excuse not to go - and I suspect that's what going on with your people, who are unwilling to risk one evening and a small amount of money to find out whether they'll like something without a major sales job - might well find something to be put off by in such a tape. I could, of course, be completely wrong about that, and in any case I admire your efforts to recruit. -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 10:18:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:16:15 -0500 From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3884EA26-573E-11D8-9475-000393B84248-AT-research.neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20040204.053231.15926.489989-AT-webmail02.nyc.untd.com> It would be nice to have a short video showing the romance of English country dance on the CDSS web site. The dancers would be wearing, not fancy dress, but "looking good at my weekly dance" clothes. They would be experienced and elegant, but most of all, take an obvious and natural delight in the dances. The music would be the best we have. The video would include a walkthrough, both to reassure the viewers that this stuff is taught, and to provide contrast with the dances--the pedestrian nature of the walkthrough contrasting with the incandescence of the dance experience. If I was directing, I wouldn't use music in the walkthrough, but save it for the dance. The viewer should feel that the music transforms the figures, and the music and figures transform the dancers. I'd use lots of close-ups of dancer's faces to give a dancer's view of the exchange of feelings with partner. When introducing a subject to beginners it is always important to teach the romance of the subject. An electrical engineer once criticized my department for not teaching the "romance of calculus" to freshman engineers. He had a good point. Best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:11:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:10:57 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Yes, yes! That's it! Only, if I were directing I would add shots taken from above so you can see that not only are you dancing with your foursome but with the whole set making beautiful patterns that fold into each other like a kaleidoscope. Is there enough interest to make this a reality? How can we do it? >>> gaff-AT-research.neu.edu 02/04/04 10:16AM >>> It would be nice to have a short video showing the romance of English country dance on the CDSS web site. The dancers would be wearing, not fancy dress, but "looking good at my weekly dance" clothes. They would be experienced and elegant, but most of all, take an obvious and natural delight in the dances. The music would be the best we have. The video would include a walkthrough, both to reassure the viewers that this stuff is taught, and to provide contrast with the dances--the pedestrian nature of the walkthrough contrasting with the incandescence of the dance experience. If I was directing, I wouldn't use music in the walkthrough, but save it for the dance. The viewer should feel that the music transforms the figures, and the music and figures transform the dancers. I'd use lots of close-ups of dancer's faces to give a dancer's view of the exchange of feelings with partner. When introducing a subject to beginners it is always important to teach the romance of the subject. An electrical engineer once criticized my department for not teaching the "romance of calculus" to freshman engineers. He had a good point. Best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:37:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:38:19 -0500 From: Daniel Pentlarge Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Careful; this is beginning to sound like the June Taylor Dancers on the Jackie Gleason Show. Yes, yes! That's it! Only, if I were directing I would add shots taken from above so you can see that not only are you dancing with your foursome but with the whole set making beautiful patterns that fold into each other like a kaleidoscope. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:49:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:46:42 -0500 From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: > Anybody out there have good dance anxiety stories? > > A friend of mine and I once organized a couple of contra dances at a local church; the dances were taught by Ted Sanella. After that we thought we'd take our wives to the big contra dance that was at Chestnut hill at that point. We walked into the hall, and both our wives and my friend just froze. They were overwhelmed. They stayed to watch me do a dance or two (fools rush in where angels fear to tread) , then we left. I had another friend who went on to make a lot of contributions to the local contra scene as a musician, who stayed the whole dance on the sidelines afraid to try. When he did start dancing the week after, his partners remarked--"oh we did see you sitting there" I could only wonder why they didn't try to bring him in. If your local dance has the high level of style that we're all shooting for, it can be intimidating to novices. best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 11:50:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:47:38 -0500 From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: On Feb 4, 2004, at 2:10 PM, Anita Klein wrote: > Yes, yes! That's it! Only, if I were directing I would add shots > taken > from above so you can see that not only are you dancing with your > foursome but with the whole set making beautiful patterns that fold > into > each other like a kaleidoscope. > > Is there enough interest to make this a reality? How can we do it? > The talent, interest and money are around--we just need a producer and a director ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:25:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:24:52 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: ECD on videotape? To: dpentlarge-AT-KURZWEILTECH.COM, ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suspect Nonesuch was written for the June Taylor Dancers. ;-) >>> dpentlarge-AT-KURZWEILTECH.COM 02/04/04 11:38AM >>> Careful; this is beginning to sound like the June Taylor Dancers on the Jackie Gleason Show. Yes, yes! That's it! Only, if I were directing I would add shots taken from above so you can see that not only are you dancing with your foursome but with the whole set making beautiful patterns that fold into each other like a kaleidoscope. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:41:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:41:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20040204204109.62581.qmail-AT-web12202.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 'Elegant', 'incandescence', 'romance', 'transform', 'exchange of feelings'? Yikes! I'd suggest keeping it simple rather than intimidating newbies with those sorts of phrases, images and unrealistic expectations. The video should show them that ECD is fun, that it's easy, and some shots of dances with music. Maybe some of the basic patterns, but that would depend on whether the intent is to make a training video or a promotional video. I would vote for the latter. Happy smiling people having a good time. --- Terence Gaffney wrote: > > It would be nice to have a short video showing the > romance of English > country dance on the CDSS web site. The dancers > would be wearing, not > fancy dress, but "looking good at my weekly dance" > clothes. They would > be experienced and elegant, but most of all, take an > obvious and > natural delight in the dances. The music would be > the best we have. The > video would include a walkthrough, both to reassure > the viewers that > this stuff is taught, and to provide contrast with > the dances--the > pedestrian nature of the walkthrough contrasting > with the incandescence > of the dance experience. > > If I was directing, I wouldn't use music in the > walkthrough, but save > it for the dance. The viewer should feel that the > music transforms the > figures, and the music and figures transform the > dancers. I'd use lots > of close-ups of dancer's faces to give a dancer's > view of the exchange > of feelings with partner. > > When introducing a subject to beginners it is always > important to teach > the romance of the subject. An electrical engineer > once criticized my > department for not teaching the "romance of > calculus" to freshman > engineers. He had a good point. > Best, > terry > ===== Tom Vincent They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself. -- Andy Warhol __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:46:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 15:46:58 -0500 From: Blank Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <40215A42.3040906-AT-sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Looking for producers? Stephanie Smith and Danny Walkowitz are producing an ECD documentary for the Smithsonian. Al Blank ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:18:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:17:54 -0500 From: Stephanie Smith Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20040204211754.ZLVC1590.out012.verizon.net-AT-outgoing.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks for the plug, Al! Well, yes, we do have a lot of the kinds of footage mentioned, although we haven't tried the balcony shots yet. At the moment we're working on the documentary, but ultimately there will certainly be footage that CDSS, who is a partner in our project, can use for informational/promotional purposes. When we are done with our editing and production, viewing copies of the raw footage will be available in the Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage here at the Smithsonian, and at the University of New Hampshire Library where the CDSS collections reside. Stephanie (wearing her Smithsonian hat) Smith > > From: Blank > Date: 2004/02/04 Wed PM 03:46:58 EST > To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? > > Looking for producers? Stephanie Smith and Danny Walkowitz are producing > an ECD documentary for the Smithsonian. > > Al Blank > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:26:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 16:26:10 -0500 (EST) From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 4 Feb 2004, Blank wrote: > Looking for producers? Stephanie Smith and Danny Walkowitz are producing > an ECD documentary for the Smithsonian. > > Al Blank > Danny Walkowitz name came to mind --what happened to the documentary on fried that he was working on? Tom, those words are the ones I use to descibe the effects--they wouldn't be in the production--in fact i don't see any words except what is used for the talk through there. having done ECD in Liverpool for a year, I was blown away by my first experience in Boston. The combination of BN's music and the partner connection made for an incandesent experience--otherwise I wouldn't bother doing it--argentine tango instead, maybe. Best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:46:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:45:21 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A promotional video would suit my recruiting efforts best which is what prompted me to start this thread. A promotional video should make people say "I can do that! I want to try that!" So if 'elegant', 'romance', 'exchange of feelings' are what draw people in, then that's a good thing to show. Here are some of the most common questions I get and could probably answer better with a video: "What is it?" Couples dancing with other couples in formations doing choreographed figures. (Most people I know are familiar only with ballroom dancing and whatever it is that people do to pop music. Words are not enough to describe this basic structure.) "What's the music like?" There are elegant dances to slow tunes like Michael and All Angels and good rowdy dances like Trip to Paris. Again, easier to see than describe. "How do you know what to do?" Show the dancers being instructed and someone calling the figures while the music is playing (at least at the beginning). "Is it hard?" No! Look, these are regular people, not a dance team... >>> tomrvincent-AT-yahoo.com 02/04/04 12:41PM >>> 'Elegant', 'incandescence', 'romance', 'transform', 'exchange of feelings'? Yikes! I'd suggest keeping it simple rather than intimidating newbies with those sorts of phrases, images and unrealistic expectations. The video should show them that ECD is fun, that it's easy, and some shots of dances with music. Maybe some of the basic patterns, but that would depend on whether the intent is to make a training video or a promotional video. I would vote for the latter. Happy smiling people having a good time. --- Terence Gaffney wrote: > > It would be nice to have a short video showing the > romance of English > country dance on the CDSS web site. The dancers > would be wearing, not > fancy dress, but "looking good at my weekly dance" > clothes. They would > be experienced and elegant, but most of all, take an > obvious and > natural delight in the dances. The music would be > the best we have. The > video would include a walkthrough, both to reassure > the viewers that > this stuff is taught, and to provide contrast with > the dances--the > pedestrian nature of the walkthrough contrasting > with the incandescence > of the dance experience. > > If I was directing, I wouldn't use music in the > walkthrough, but save > it for the dance. The viewer should feel that the > music transforms the > figures, and the music and figures transform the > dancers. I'd use lots > of close-ups of dancer's faces to give a dancer's > view of the exchange > of feelings with partner. > > When introducing a subject to beginners it is always > important to teach > the romance of the subject. An electrical engineer > once criticized my > department for not teaching the "romance of > calculus" to freshman > engineers. He had a good point. > Best, > terry > ===== Tom Vincent They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself. -- Andy Warhol __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 13:47:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 14:47:09 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Stephanie, Is there a way a West Coast person can view this footage short of traveling to DC? Tell us more about your documentary. Anita >>> dancesmith-AT-verizon.net 02/04/04 01:17PM >>> Thanks for the plug, Al! Well, yes, we do have a lot of the kinds of footage mentioned, although we haven't tried the balcony shots yet. At the moment we're working on the documentary, but ultimately there will certainly be footage that CDSS, who is a partner in our project, can use for informational/promotional purposes. When we are done with our editing and production, viewing copies of the raw footage will be available in the Center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage here at the Smithsonian, and at the University of New Hampshire Library where the CDSS collections reside. Stephanie (wearing her Smithsonian hat) Smith > > From: Blank > Date: 2004/02/04 Wed PM 03:46:58 EST > To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? > > Looking for producers? Stephanie Smith and Danny Walkowitz are producing > an ECD documentary for the Smithsonian. > > Al Blank > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:39:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:38:29 -0500 From: DavBarnert-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <42CB6CD6.7AEB783F.0ACF18CD-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I would just like to mention here that twice in my life, on very different occasions (but neither within the last 20 years) I have been among a group of folks watching a film of a Dickens or Austen story on TV when the obligatory line dancing scene appeared and someone said something to the effect of "It's too bad there's nowhere you can go and do that kind of dancing now." David Barnert Albany NY ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 08:17:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:16:59 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I try to use the recent Austen adaptations as a recruitment tool. When someone tells me they recently watched one of these movies, I say "Did you know that people still do that kind of dancing? There's a local dance in xxx town on yyy day. Want to come?" The ladies' eyes usually light up but the husbands are a much harder sell. If I owned a video store, I would put local dance flyers in the cases for Emma, P & P, etc. ;-) >>> DavBarnert-AT-AOL.COM 02/05/04 07:38AM >>> I would just like to mention here that twice in my life, on very different occasions (but neither within the last 20 years) I have been among a group of folks watching a film of a Dickens or Austen story on TV when the obligatory line dancing scene appeared and someone said something to the effect of "It's too bad there's nowhere you can go and do that kind of dancing now." David Barnert Albany NY ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:09:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:02:29 -0500 From: jbgrun Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I agree with those who advocate producing a short tape of the *Romance of Enlish Country Dance*. AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM > Yes, yes! That's it! Only, if I were directing I would add shots taken > from above so you can see that not only are you dancing with your > foursome but with the whole set making beautiful patterns that fold into > each other like a kaleidoscope. YES, YES, Anita. From above. Exactly. I've been wishing for such a thing for years. >>>> gaff-AT-research.neu.edu 02/04/04 10:16AM >>> > The dancers would be wearing, not > > fancy dress, but "looking good at my weekly dance" clothes. > I'd use lots > > of close-ups of dancer's faces to give a dancer's view of the exchange > > of feelings with partner. > > When introducing a subject to beginners it is always important to teach > > the romance of the subject. Absolutely Terry! The usual dance documentary (though I hear David Millstone's contra one is wonderful) is rather dreary. A "straighforward" film, even if each dancer is connecting perfectly with other dancers & music, probably would not come close to communicating to observers the extraordinary experience from the inside. That will require an incredibaly gifted & sympathetic filmmaker. It's definitely doable, though. After all, if we can put a man on the moon etc..... Judy Grunberg ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 09:49:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:49:25 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Railing Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, jbgrun wrote: > I agree with those who advocate producing a short tape of the *Romance of > Enlish Country Dance*. > Very short. Think "movie trailer", i.e., something brief enough to be downloaded from a website, but enticing enough to make anyone with an affinity for dance want to know more. If such a video were available somewhere on the net, so that curious people could be pointed to it, and other websites could be linked to it, I think it could be a good recruiting tool. --Mary Railing ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:05:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:04:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dfhart24-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <102.3e0cb77c.2d53edd4-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_hQGgzvLXwjCMmS/p/V49og)" --Boundary_(ID_hQGgzvLXwjCMmS/p/V49og) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/4/04 2:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes: > When introducing a subject to beginners it is always important to teach > > the romance of the subject. An electrical engineer once criticized my > > department for not teaching the "romance of calculus" to freshman > engineers. He had a good point. Best, Terry > > At the moment, I'd probably have about as good a chance of convincing my > teen-aged daughter of the romance of calculus (as she limps through > pre-caclulus) as of the romance of ECD. > > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not my > word) to entice the younger set who think this is something only old for the old > and dweebish. > > Cheer, > ever-hopeful Deborah --Boundary_(ID_hQGgzvLXwjCMmS/p/V49og) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/4/04 2:29:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes:

When introducing a subject to beginners it is always important to teach

the romance of the subject.  An electrical engineer once criticized my

department for not teaching the "romance of calculus" to freshman
engineers. He had a good point.

Best,
Terry


At the moment, I'd probably have about as good a chance of convincing my teen-aged daughter of the romance of calculus (as she limps through pre-caclulus) as of the romance of ECD. 

I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not my word) to entice the younger set who think this is something only old for the old and dweebish.

Cheer,
ever-hopeful Deborah


 --Boundary_(ID_hQGgzvLXwjCMmS/p/V49og)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:39:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:39:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <102.3e0cb77c.2d53edd4-AT-aol.com> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 the ever-hopeful Dfhart24-AT-aol.com wrote: > > At the moment, I'd probably have about as good a chance of convincing my > > teen-aged daughter of the romance of calculus (as she limps through > > pre-caclulus) as of the romance of ECD. > > > > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not > > my word) to entice the younger set who think this is something only > > old for the old and dweebish. is it time to enlist the swarthmore folk dance club? or the harvard 2nd & 4th friday english dancers? susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 13:24:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:25:30 -0500 From: jbgrun Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT srl-AT-Princeton.EDU > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not >>> my word) to entice the younger set I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably think English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...) Grandma Judy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 13:37:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:37:36 -0500 (EST) From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Susan R. Lorand wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 the ever-hopeful Dfhart24-AT-aol.com wrote: > > > > At the moment, I'd probably have about as good a chance of convincing my > > > teen-aged daughter of the romance of calculus (as she limps through > > > pre-caclulus) as of the romance of ECD. > > > > > > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not > > > my word) to entice the younger set who think this is something only > > > old for the old and dweebish. > > is it time to enlist the swarthmore folk dance club? or the harvard 2nd & > 4th friday english dancers? > > susie lorand > Definitely the Swarthmore club--two of the dancers who came to mind under the heading of experienced, elegant with a natural delight in what they are doing were graduates of that club. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:04:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 15:03:38 -0700 From: Anita Klein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Is it that English dancing is yucky or dancing with old, dweeby people is yucky (or both)? Anita (not quite old but certainly dweeby) >>> jbgrun-AT-BERK.COM 02/05/04 01:25PM >>> srl-AT-Princeton.EDU > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not >>> my word) to entice the younger set I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably think English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...) Grandma Judy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:22:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:22:26 -0500 (EST) From: Dfhart24-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <8.45089c9c.2d543842-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_sn2ZEF7PvfRf0LsaVUVBvQ)" --Boundary_(ID_sn2ZEF7PvfRf0LsaVUVBvQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes: > > Is it that English dancing is yucky or dancing with old, dweeby people > is yucky (or both)? > Anything her mother does, is, by definition, "yucky," "uncool," "old-fashioned." Having, in the interest of science, sacrificed my dignity, I asked. Returning from the long walk down the hall, head hung in shame, I am having a hard time retaining my daughter's choice words. I think they were "dull" and "boring," as in, "Dancing in a line to other people's dances is boring." And, hypothetically, that if people her age did it, she would know that they are "dweebs" and "nerds." It was a perfect Reviving Ophelia moment. She did allow that her attitude toward this *might* change over time, (she leaves home for college next year) but she is not about to indulge me any time soon. This, from a child whose mother danced well into her ninth month of pregnancy and who was nearly born at Pinewoods (CDSS dance camp) and who took her first walking steps the following year at C# (the main dance pavilion at Pinewoods). And who accompanied her mother to many a dance until she was old enough to stay home alone. Can't say we didn't try. Cheer, Deborah --Boundary_(ID_sn2ZEF7PvfRf0LsaVUVBvQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes:


Is it that English dancing is yucky or dancing with old, dweeby people
is yucky (or both)?


Anything her mother does, is, by definition, "yucky," "uncool," "old-fashioned."

Having, in the interest of science, sacrificed my dignity, I asked.  Returning from the long walk down the hall, head hung in shame, I am having a hard time retaining my daughter's choice words.  I think they were "dull" and "boring," as in, "Dancing in a line to other people's dances is boring."

And, hypothetically, that if people her age did it, she would know that they are "dweebs" and "nerds."

It was a perfect Reviving Ophelia moment.

She did allow that her attitude toward this *might* change over time, (she leaves home for college next year) but  she is not about to indulge me any time soon.  This, from a child whose mother danced well into her ninth month of pregnancy and who was nearly born at Pinewoods (CDSS dance camp) and who took her first walking steps the following year at C# (the main dance pavilion at Pinewoods).  And who accompanied her mother to many a dance until she was old enough to stay home alone.

Can't say we didn't try.

Cheer,
Deborah
 --Boundary_(ID_sn2ZEF7PvfRf0LsaVUVBvQ)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:29:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:29:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dfhart24-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1e4.18d958ae.2d5439ee-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_AX1pkP2UdWhwNjPDiCgNtg)" --Boundary_(ID_AX1pkP2UdWhwNjPDiCgNtg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes: > I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably > think > English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...) > > On the other hand, when I first took my older children to Family Week at CDSS/Pinewoods, they were seven and nine years old. I think, my son described the experience as "awesome" and my daughter was similarly enthralled. There seems to be a critical age before which it is good to expose them -- those pre-teen years when one's children still think one is a goddess. Cheer, Deborah --Boundary_(ID_AX1pkP2UdWhwNjPDiCgNtg) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes:

I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably
think
English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...)



On the other hand, when I first took my older children to Family Week at CDSS/Pinewoods, they were seven and nine years old.  I think, my son described the experience as "awesome" and my daughter was similarly enthralled.  There seems to be a critical age before which it is good to expose them -- those pre-teen years when one's children still think one is a goddess.

Cheer,
Deborah --Boundary_(ID_AX1pkP2UdWhwNjPDiCgNtg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:45:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:45:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dfhart24-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1a1.200dae46.2d543d9e-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_px2QgpBOoRdfXrh94+btDQ)" --Boundary_(ID_px2QgpBOoRdfXrh94+btDQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes: > I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably > think > English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...) > On the other hand, my older daughter, several years ago, wrote me from (Reed) college: "Oh, by the way, I thank you for some of the experiences that you have given me that I resented when I was younger; like gardening to be specific. And I thank you for taking us to Pinewoods, and the like. It's kind of strange, when I consider my background so normal, then I realize how different it is from other people's. For example, so many people are amazed that I'm really good at folk dancing. To me, it comes naturally, and I've never thought twice about it. Most people see it as sort of a strange thing that they may have done once in third grade. Same thing for vintage, though I'd say that's even more extreme. Oh, and I thank you for the violin lessons." "I was juggling in the gym once, and there was a folkdancing class going on in the other gym. My roommate came to get me because they needed an extra person. And we danced, and everyone thanked me for coming, and was really, really impressed. It was so funny, to consider myself gifted in something I've never thought twice about that other people have to work at so hard, some of whom are completely a lost cause." Mother redeemed, Deborah --Boundary_(ID_px2QgpBOoRdfXrh94+btDQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 2/5/04 5:32:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, AnitaKlein-AT-FIRSTHEALTH.COM writes:

I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably
think
English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...)


On the other hand, my older daughter, several years ago, wrote me from (Reed) college:

"Oh, by the way, I thank you for some of the experiences that you have given me that I resented when I was younger; like gardening to be specific.  And I thank you for taking us to Pinewoods, and the like.  It's kind of strange, when I consider my background so normal, then I realize how different it is from other people's.  For example, so many people are amazed that I'm really good at folk dancing.  To me, it comes naturally, and I've never thought twice about it.  Most people see it as sort of a strange thing that they may have done once in third grade.  Same thing for vintage, though I'd say that's even more extreme.  Oh, and I thank you for the violin lessons."

"I was juggling in the gym once, and there was a folkdancing class going on in the other gym.  My roommate came to get me because they needed an extra person.  And we danced, and everyone thanked me for coming, and was really, really impressed.  It was so funny, to consider myself gifted in something I've never thought twice about that other people have to work at so hard, some of whom are completely a lost cause."

Mother redeemed,
Deborah --Boundary_(ID_px2QgpBOoRdfXrh94+btDQ)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:34:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:34:55 -0500 From: "Linda M. Nelson" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: >Is it that English dancing is yucky or dancing with old, dweeby people >is yucky (or both)? When we have a choice of entertainments in a complex world: Young people go where there are other young people having fun. Middle age folk go where other middle age folk are having fun. Elders are drawn to groups where other elders are having fun. The challenge is to appeal to all age groups, and retain a mix of dancers. We can do it. There's nothing intrinsically "old" or "young" about the dance form itself, though emphasis might make a difference. Lots of folks doing ECD *now* started young, when folk dancing was trendy and cool, and the tempos were faster... Getting enough young (teens, twenties) folks to a dance to tip the age balance is very challenging, but can make a big difference in the energy level of the dance. Expect a lot more lively dances (barn dance style, ceilidh or rants), and probably fewer of the complex old romantic dances. I've watched the median age level drop with the contradance in Rehoboth, Massachusetts, and it's pretty exciting. Also scary! All that energy, exuberance and lack of control make for rougher dancing and a few more injuries. For ECD... well... maybe some folks will decide that they don't want quite that much exuberance, and will be happy to have a somewhat more sedate older crowd. In urban areas, there's time and space for all the flavors, i think... No real answers, just my 2 cents worth of thinking - Linda -- __________________________________________________ "Oh, yes. It's vital to remember who you really are. It's very important. It isn't a good idea to rely on other people or things to do it for you, you see. They always get it wrong." (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery") __________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 18:49:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:48:46 -0500 From: CPChurchOffice-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4A0519A9.3CCD2CDF.A76DBB7C-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I think the video idea is terrific, it is delightful to see people who have never danced before learn the many pleasures of ECD. Carrying on our traditions and heritages can be a great joy. I may be able to provide some happily-dancing teenagers if someone develops the project. They live in northern Maryland and in Delaware so they can reach many major metropolitan areas in a couple of hours. We're not a very experienced group, in fact we are not officially a group, but we do have a number of enthusiastic and skillful teenagers who have been taught by Laura Bailey of Pennsylvania and Edith Mroz of the Dover English Country Dancers in Delaware. (Some of the teens have gained enough experience to participate in the Dover English Country Dancers demonstration dances.)They would probably think that making a video would be fun. Margaret Talbot ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:17:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:17:21 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <075401c3ec5f$bc6e4f60$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Maybe you could get Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake to star in one. :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "jbgrun" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? > srl-AT-Princeton.EDU > > > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not > >>> my word) to entice the younger set > > > I'm for that!!! (I have some early teen grandchildren who probably think > English dancing is *yucky*--I know I did when I was 14...) > > Grandma Judy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:37:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 19:17:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L695Y9ZX5W925NK7-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Tom Vincent wrote: > Maybe you could get Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake to star in one. :) For teens, a 37-year-old like Janet Jackson probably doesn't count as a young hottie. Somewhat changing the subject, I was in North Carolina last Friday for the CDSS Exec meeting, and attended the Carrboro contra dance (with Robert Cromartie and Footloose). The hall was incredibly packed - some 285 people - and it seemed there were at least 60 undergraduates. I heard that there were groups from three different colleges there. The rest of the crowd was a good range of ages, including the more usual 40ish-and-up that I see in the Bay Area. The music was hot, the dancing was good-natured but kind of rough, and as I said a couple of times "you know the music is great when you don't mind the bruising." It was great to see that mix of ages, and it would seem that they've got enough young faces to have critical mass. I don't know how they did it. -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 21:58:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 22:00:10 -0800 From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ashland OR Spring Ball To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <40232D6A.75698CA5-AT-opendoor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type=54455854; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20030917224738.009dc320-AT-mail.lanset.com> The Ashland Branch of the Heather and Rose Country Dancers presents Twenty-fourth Annual Spring Ball Weekend English and Scottish Country Dance March 27, 2004 Ashland, Oregon USA Musicians Jim Oakden ? clarinet, recorders, mandolin, guitar and banjo Shira Kammen ? fiddle Chuck Ward ? piano Callers Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett English dances Companions Halfe Hannikin Hop Picker’s Feast Ore Boggy Orleans Baffled Mr. Beveridge’s Maggot Rogues’ Ramble Rose of Sharon Upon a Summer’s Day Well Hall When Laura Smiles The Wives’ Victory Scottish dances Swiss Lassie Montgomerie’s Rant Wicked Willie Blackadder Jig Larkin’s Song Postie’s Jig Anna Holden’s Strathspey Mrs. Milne of Kineff More info on our website www.opendoor.com/heatherandrose We hope to see you there, Brooke ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 02:25:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:25:40 +0000 (GMT) From: mab-AT-tgis.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1076063140.53.24313-mab-AT-galahad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I think that Linda's response highlights an interesting dilema and I am not sure that it is one that will be resolved (quickly). My take on this is that folk dance (ECD, contra, barn dance, ceilidh, whatever) was a social activity undertaken by a natural community. By this I mean that the community existed because of its geographical proximity. The same people shopped together, went to school together, worshipped together, toiled in the fields together, dealt with adversity together. A "young" person in such a community did not go to classes to learn this sort of dancing, did not have to turn up at the dance 30 minutes before the event to attend a workshop, did not have to read the advertisement carefully to see whether beginners were welcome or whether this was a dance for advanced dancers. Instead, they attended "the" dance, taken by their elders. They were pulled through the dance by other adults to help them to learn it by doing it. Today, however, for the most part our dances are attended by unnatural communities. The people who go to the dances have little in common except for the fact that they enjoy this sort of dancing. Some of them may travel hundreds of miles (or as I did in New England recently, thousands of miles) to attend the dance. My contention is that folk dance is a form of social dancing. In the past the emphasis was on social whereas today the emphasis is on dancing. In the UK you get a graphic example of where this can all lead to. Because folk dancing ceases to be a community thing and becomes an activity, just like any other activity, it becomes no different from going to an evening class to learn a foreign language or car maintenance. You start off in a beginners class and year by year you go to progressively more complex classes. To my mind this is an inevitable consequence of divorcing the activity from its roots. Of the 1000+ dances in the "Playford" dncing masters, Cecil Sharp interpreted and published about 160. If you look at which of these are done to day you will find that the 40 or so that are most commonly done are the more complex dances. Selection is already at work! In fact Sharp himself was already being selective since the 160 he chose tended to be more complex than the rest. If we look at the work of the popular modern dance authors, eg Colin Hume and Fried de Metz Hermann, what do we find - ever more complex dances. This is not unexpected. They are writing good dances specifically for their audiences. There is not a lot of point in writing simple dances for audiences wanting sophisticated material. However, doing more complex dances does act as a barrier to new people and to younger people participating. Our folk dance clubs in the UK are getting more and more elderley. Many have an average age in the late 50s or mid-60s. No young people are joining them (would you as a 5/10/15/20 year old want to go and socialise with a group who were all capable of being your granny?). Most are losing members through natural attrition faster than they can get new members. Some of the clubs have managed to become real communities in their own right. These tend to have a younger(ish) profile and to have a greater chance of lasting longer. However, they too have problems in attracting young people. Another aspect of divorcing the dance from its roots is the fact that in the past, dance style, clothing worn, music played etc, all reflected contemporary life - perhaps a little old fashioned but certainly not as distinct as it is today. Today, the folk dance community has become divorced from today - yea, even deliberately attempting to shun today. Our dance communities are an attempt to escape modern life - quiet music, operating theatre lights, no achohol, no smoking.... However, the young people want to dance - and you will find plenty of them (here in the UK) if you go to the right place (eg Sidmouth Folk Festival Late Night Extra). They dance to bands that are more like pop groups, with loud music, low lights etc. Until we put folk dancing back into the local community and back into a contemporary context we will just have to rely on extensive marketing to get our minority point of view across. Michael Barraclough http://www.michaelbarraclough.com At Thu, 05 Feb 2004 20:34:55 -0500, Linda M. Nelson" wrote: >>Is it that English dancing is yucky or dancing with old, dweeby people >>is yucky (or both)? > > When we have a choice of entertainments in a complex world: > > Young people go where there are other young people having fun. > Middle age folk go where other middle age folk are having fun. > Elders are drawn to groups where other elders are having fun. > > The challenge is to appeal to all age groups, and retain a mix of > dancers. We can do it. There's nothing intrinsically "old" or > "young" about the dance form itself, though emphasis might make a > difference. Lots of folks doing ECD *now* started young, when folk > dancing was trendy and cool, and the tempos were faster... > > Getting enough young (teens, twenties) folks to a dance to tip the > age balance is very challenging, but can make a big difference in the > energy level of the dance. Expect a lot more lively dances (barn > dance style, ceilidh or rants), and probably fewer of the complex old > romantic dances. I've watched the median age level drop with the > contradance in Rehoboth, Massachusetts, and it's pretty exciting. > Also scary! All that energy, exuberance and lack of control make for > rougher dancing and a few more injuries. > > For ECD... well... maybe some folks will decide that they don't want > quite that much exuberance, and will be happy to have a somewhat more > sedate older crowd. In urban areas, there's time and space for all > the flavors, i think... > > No real answers, just my 2 cents worth of thinking - Linda > -- > > __________________________________________________ > "Oh, yes. It's vital to remember who you really are. > It's very important. It isn't a good idea to rely on other > people or things to do it for you, you see. They always > get it wrong." (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery") > __________________________________________________ > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 04:58:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:57:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <075401c3ec5f$bc6e4f60$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Tom Vincent wrote: > Maybe you could get Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake to star in one. :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jbgrun" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 4:25 PM > Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? > > > > srl-AT-Princeton.EDU > > > > > I would therefore vote for having some shots of young "hotties" (not > > >>> my word) to entice the younger set just for the record, i did not write the above. i was responding to it (my response was snipped from tom's message, which is fine, but my address should also have been omitted). - susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:48:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 06:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: ECD at colleges - was ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20040206144809.75753.qmail-AT-web12206.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We've had a few seemingly enthusiastic college students at our various dances and there certainly are a few colleges in the area (DE et al)...if we could get some students to sponsor it, we could run some ECDs on campus. Anyone have any success doing that? I think everyone acknowledges that if we don't recruit younger dancers, the dances will fade into history...once again. :) Tom (There's a SCD group that dances just off-campus from the Univ of Delaware, but I haven't been to their dances to see if it attracts any students) --- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > Tom Vincent wrote: > > > Maybe you could get Janet Jackson and Justin > Timberlake to star in one. :) > > For teens, a 37-year-old like Janet Jackson probably > doesn't count as a young > hottie. > > Somewhat changing the subject, I was in North > Carolina last Friday for the CDSS > Exec meeting, and attended the Carrboro contra dance > (with Robert Cromartie and > Footloose). The hall was incredibly packed - some > 285 people - and it seemed > there were at least 60 undergraduates. I heard that > there were groups from > three different colleges there. The rest of the > crowd was a good range of > ages, including the more usual 40ish-and-up that I > see in the Bay Area. > > The music was hot, the dancing was good-natured but > kind of rough, and as I > said a couple of times "you know the music is great > when you don't mind the > bruising." > > It was great to see that mix of ages, and it would > seem that they've got enough > young faces to have critical mass. I don't know how > they did it. > > -- Alan > -- > =============================================================================== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or > SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill > Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 > =============================================================================== > ===== Tom Vincent They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself. -- Andy Warhol __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 07:08:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:09:29 -0500 From: Barbara Luke Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashland OR Spring Ball To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000b01c3ecb2$7535cda0$39a91f43-AT-kicksass.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20030917224738.009dc320-AT-mail.lanset.com> <40232D6A.75698CA5-AT-opendoor.com> Dear friends, I was all set to come to come to the Ashland Ball, but last week my mother broke her hip. Now I must wait to see how much mobility she regains and how independent she feels before I can take off for two weeks (I had planned to be at both the Ashland Ball and the Bay Area Ball in one trip). Life changes in a split second. Perhaps the thing to do is to register and send the fee in the hope I can make it, and just consider it a contribution if I can't. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:00 AM Subject: Ashland OR Spring Ball > The Ashland Branch of the Heather and Rose Country Dancers presents > Twenty-fourth Annual > Spring Ball Weekend > > English and Scottish Country Dance > > March 27, 2004 > Ashland, Oregon USA > > Musicians > Jim Oakden ? clarinet, recorders, mandolin, guitar and banjo > Shira Kammen ? fiddle > Chuck Ward ? piano > > Callers > Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett > > English dances > Companions > Halfe Hannikin > Hop Picker's Feast > Ore Boggy > Orleans Baffled > Mr. Beveridge's Maggot > Rogues' Ramble > Rose of Sharon > Upon a Summer's Day > Well Hall > When Laura Smiles > The Wives' Victory > > Scottish dances > Swiss Lassie > Montgomerie's Rant > Wicked Willie > Blackadder Jig > Larkin's Song > Postie's Jig > Anna Holden's Strathspey > Mrs. Milne of Kineff > > More info on our website > www.opendoor.com/heatherandrose > > We hope to see you there, > Brooke > > > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:21:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:17:12 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20040206161712.62773.qmail-AT-web12204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT These are really great thoughts and ideas, Michael! It reminds me of the evolutionary variants of Polka. In the Southwest, it's mostly a Latino form that came to Mexico with the Germans during Maximillian's reign (I think). And in San Francisco and Cleveland, there's a variant called 'Extreme Polka' that has more in common with Punk Rock than Lawrence Welk. I know that some Contra groups have 'Zesty' Contra dances where *all* the dances are fast. Has anyone does a 'Zesty' ECD session? I know I've got a lot of dances I could call that would give young dancers a healthy workout (I remember the exhausted look on the Elkton MD kids' faces when I called a rather perky Sellinger's Round :) ). Tom --- mab-AT-TGIS.CO.UK wrote: > > > My take on this is that folk dance (ECD, contra, > barn dance, ceilidh, > whatever) was a social activity undertaken by a > natural community. By this > > > Michael Barraclough > http://www.michaelbarraclough.com ===== Tom Vincent They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself. -- Andy Warhol __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:27:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:24:23 +0000 From: trev Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002a01c3ecce$1233ab20$673f0751-AT-trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Why do you want to produce a video showing ECD as it isn't? If you promote a video to young(er?) people to try and get them to dances, and they turn up to find mostly us old(er?) lot, do you think they will turn up again? And if they all do turn up, will we be able to keep up with them still?! Tom said: I think everyone acknowledges that if we don't recruit younger dancers, the dances will fade into history...once again. :) Well I don't acknowledge that. We have younger people, students etc. quite happily dancing the more enthusiastic dance styles - shall we call it ceilidh for want of definations that nobody ever understands. Then we have the more graceful (again for want of a better term) ECD. OK - at festivals their is a smal cross-over, but at normal ECD dances, if we forced the younger dancers to do our style of dancing then that would stop them dancing our style of dancing, and most proberly their own as well, and that would kill off future generations of ECD dancers. Also, if we forced ourselves into their dances to dance ECD style they wouldn't like that either. So, leave each to our own. Yes - encourage others, but if we try to go out and force people into ECD, that will surely stop it faster? At the moment we have younger people dancing - let their style evolve the same as ours has. It may not evolve the way we think it should, but that is the folk process. It won't fade, but it may change. Trev ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:43:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:42:47 +0000 From: catiegeist-AT-att.net Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD at colleges To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <020620041642.10044.5798-AT-att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Our weekly SCD class is held in one of the dance studios at Brevard Community College in Melbourne, Florida, and even though we put our signs out in the hall and invite students to join us, very few students have ever even come into the dance studio to try it. We have notices in the local newspaper every week, we have danced in the cafeteria at the community college and at their Cultural Diversity Day, but it hasn't helped to recruit any college students. Once or twice a ballet student from the other dance studio has come in to look at us while we were dancing, and one woman joined us for a few weeks, but that's the extent of our recruiting at the community college. Two of our "Scottish Country Dancing" signs disappeared from the hall at one point and never were seen again. We can't quite figure out why anyone would want our signs! Over the years, we have tried to recruit students from Florida Institute of Technology also, but it's difficult to get students to attend a dance class when they have tests to take and papers to write and part-time jobs, etc. Many times students don't have cars available to get to a dance class. If the dance class is held at the college, it would be easier for the students to attend. Maybe if you entice them with homemade refreshments at the break, they will flock to the class. If you serve it, they will come! Catie Condran Geist (frustrated after 24 years of trying to entice new dancers to attend weekly dance classes in Melbourne, Florida) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:51:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:51:02 +0000 From: Philippa Waite Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fw: Spring Baroque Dance Workshops, USA To: ECD List Message-ID: <004901c3ecd1$6e049560$29ce89d9-AT-philsputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippa Waite" To: "Feuillet List" Cc: "RENDANCE" Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:48 PM Subject: Spring Baroque Dance Workshops, USA > Spring Baroque Dance Workshops - Ashland, Oregon and Oakland, California > Taught by Philippa Waite of > Consort de Danse Baroque > > Assisted by Judith Kennedy > Formerly with the Oregon Shakespeare Festival > > Manners, Movement and Musical Rhythms of the 17th and 18th Centuries > > March 20th/21st and March 20th-27th,10am-5pm > > Baroque steps suitable for use in country dances > > San Francisco Bay Area: April 17th/18th > > Course Material: Ashland > Daily classes (10am-5pm) will consist of learning some of the simple steps > and patterns from many of these dance types such as sarabande, bouree, gigue > etc. with brief periods of lecture. Students will have the opportunity to > reconstruct a dance from an original eighteenth century notation and > beginners (to notation) will be taught the basics to allow them to > reconstruct a simple notated sequence. Intermediate and advanced students > may bring a prepared dance to work on with Ms. Waite. The classes will be > tailored to the level of expertise of the participants, and the beginning > workshops are suitable for those with no dance experience. > > Beginning/Brush-up Weekend, Ashland > Saturday, March 20th through Sunday, March 21st > > 10am-5pm > > This workshop is especially for beginning Baroque dancers, actors, > musicians, and interested lay-people. Basic steps, patterns and musical > rhythms will be taught along with brief lectures on the history, costume and > setting of the dances. Students continuing on from a beginning level may > also come to improve their skills. Please note that if beginners wish to > continue on for the full workshop (through 3/27), provision can be made for > teaching on several levels for those extra days. > > A costumed lecture/demonstration by the faculty and advanced students will > be presented Sunday, March 21st at 5pm > > Intermediate/Advanced Workshop, Ashland > 10am-5pm > > Saturday, March 20th through Saturday, March 27th > > This workshop will be taught to students at the intermediate or advanced > level. The classes will begin with two days of basic technique, and then > continue with more advanced technical material, and with work on > presentation of choreographed dance sequences reconstructed from 17th and > 18th century notation. Prior experience in Baroque dance at an intermediate > level is strongly recommended, although students with advanced technique in > other dance disciplines could also benefit. > > Spring Baroque Dance Workshops - San Francisco Bay Area > Beginning/Brush-up Weekend, Mills College, Oakland > > An introduction to Baroque Steps (suitable for use in country dances) > > Saturday 10am-5pm, Sunday 10am-6pm > > Saturday, April 17th through Sunday, April 18th > > This workshop is especially for beginning Baroque and ballet dancers, > actors, musicians, and those interested in country dance. > > The morning will concentrate on technique required to master the basic steps > and simple step sequences will be taught in duple, triple and compound duple > rhythms. In the afternoon a country dance will be selected to try out the > newly acquired steps. > > Students continuing on from a beginning level may also come to improve their > skills. > > A costumed lecture/demonstration by the faculty and advanced students will > be presented Sunday April 18th, 5pm at Haas Pavilion. > > If you require further information, please contact: Judy Kennedy > > JKen790606-AT-aol.com. > > > > For further information about this and other workshops > taught by Philippa please use link to website: > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.waite3/spring/ > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:00:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:00:20 -0500 From: Maryn McKenna Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: age appeal and "zesty" ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>I know that some Contra groups have 'Zesty' Contra >dances where *all* the dances are fast. Has anyone >does a 'Zesty' ECD session?>> a few years ago at Pinewoods E/A week, Bob Archer taught ceilidh dances - aka the sort of simpler, more raucous dance that one would do late night at Sidmouth, as another poster has mentioned. i am a fan of sinuous, flowing, low-to-the-ground ECD, but i happily ranted my feet into mush. more to the point, since i am not a "young dancer," is that the late teens to mid-20s attendees - younger campers and crew - ate it up and howled for more. however: when those dances were announced in the evenings, i noticed that a good portion of dancers in their 50s and 60s sat down and waited them out. unclear whether this was due to individual physical issues or to aesthetic distaste; from sidelines chatter i would guess a mix of both. i was under the impression that Boston Center has successfully started a ceilidh-ish dance at Harvard in the past few years. can anyone comment? maryn ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:09:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 08:50:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: ECD on videotape? To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20040206165014.69202.qmail-AT-web12204.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Was that a technical complaint or a scold? People's e-ddresses appear in posts all the time. --- "Susan R. Lorand" wrote: > On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Tom Vincent wrote: > > > > just for the record, i did not write the above. i > was responding to it > (my response was snipped from tom's message, which > is fine, but my address > should also have been omitted). > > > > - susie lorand ===== Tom Vincent They always say time changes things, but you actually have to change them yourself. -- Andy Warhol __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:24:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:25:10 +0000 (GMT) From: mab-AT-tgis.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1076088310.8.32450-mab-AT-galahad> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Tom Vincent wrote Has anyone doen a 'Zesty' ECD session? I have in the past done a number of "Playford Ballsups" as well as a "Baroque n' Roll" evening. Young(er) people are not bothered where the dances come from. They just want to enjoy themselves in a contemporary way. Wind the music up. Turn the lights down low. Strobe lights and glitter balls are great. The original tunes were the contemporary "hit parade" of the day. Why not try to use some well known modern tunes instead. Encourage people to skip (single or double - both probably closer to the original than the way we (dance) walk the dances today. Try replacing "set & turn single" by "pogo and twizzle" (twizzle is a morris move where you spin around without your feet touching the ground, except before and after the move). Just some ideas .... Michael http//www.michaelbarraclough.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 09:41:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:40:30 +0000 (GMT) From: allisonthompson-AT-juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Shepherdstown May Day To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20040206.094051.18463.1363970-AT-webmail24.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Can anyone provide me (off-list) with a contact for the Shepherdstown morris and/or May Day celebration? (There's a nice website with photos, if anyone is interested.) Thanks Allison ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:50:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:50:26 -0600 From: Bill McDonald Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Excellent post, Michael. Excellent! You've fairly captured the nub of the problem. Newcomers are naturally intimidated by the complexity that is almost always present at most established ECD venues. I'm not an ECD master by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not a stranger to the art form either and I know that I'm cowed when walking into a room full of strangers who are all obviously *very* adept and very serious and very accomplished at what they are doing. We've been using country dances in Dallas over the past 5 years specifically as a mechanism to build community. We have large turnouts (between 50 and 100 people; more for balls) of mostly families and young singles, and at any given dance we'll have new folks. This constant churn makes for a fairly simple repertoire to accommodate the group's fluctuating knowledge and experience base (some nights the group can handle anything I can throw at them and other nights it's like pulling teeth to get through the simplest of dances--a function of the experience chemistry present in the group from month to month). I sometimes get frustrated over our lack of "progress," but I am reminded by my loving wife of our prime purpose: Building Community. Dance excellence may vary, but we always have lots of fun and enjoy each other's company. We've found that young people (15-24 year olds) actually seek out the genre because of the chance to painlessly interact with members of the opposite sex in a way that doesn't require a constant attention to one other person. We're not the prettiest dancers in the world, but we enjoy each other's company a great deal. On those occasions when pull off a triple minor with mostly everybody intact at the end, well that's just icing on the cake! Thanks for your insightful post. I'm going to save it. McDjr > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu]On Behalf Of mab-AT-TGIS.CO.UK > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:26 AM > To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD > > > I think that Linda's response highlights an interesting dilema > and I am not > sure that it is one that will be resolved (quickly). > > > My take on this is that folk dance (ECD, contra, barn dance, ceilidh, > whatever) was a social activity undertaken by a natural > community. By this > I mean that the community existed because of its geographical proximity. > The same people shopped together, went to school together, worshipped > together, toiled in the fields together, dealt with adversity together. A > "young" person in such a community did not go to classes to learn > this sort > of dancing, did not have to turn up at the dance 30 minutes before the > event to attend a workshop, did not have to read the advertisement > carefully to see whether beginners were welcome or whether this > was a dance > for advanced dancers. Instead, they attended "the" dance, taken by their > elders. They were pulled through the dance by other adults to > help them to > learn it by doing it. > > Today, however, for the most part our dances are attended by unnatural > communities. The people who go to the dances have little in common except > for the fact that they enjoy this sort of dancing. Some of them > may travel > hundreds of miles (or as I did in New England recently, thousands > of miles) > to attend the dance. My contention is that folk dance is a form of social > dancing. In the past the emphasis was on social whereas today > the emphasis > is on dancing. > > In the UK you get a graphic example of where this can all lead > to. Because > folk dancing ceases to be a community thing and becomes an activity, just > like any other activity, it becomes no different from going to an evening > class to learn a foreign language or car maintenance. You start off in a > beginners class and year by year you go to progressively more complex > classes. To my mind this is an inevitable consequence of divorcing the > activity from its roots. Of the 1000+ dances in the "Playford" dncing > masters, Cecil Sharp interpreted and published about 160. If you look at > which of these are done to day you will find that the 40 or so that are > most commonly done are the more complex dances. Selection is already at > work! In fact Sharp himself was already being selective since the 160 he > chose tended to be more complex than the rest. If we look at the work of > the popular modern dance authors, eg Colin Hume and Fried de Metz Hermann, > what do we find - ever more complex dances. This is not unexpected. They > are writing good dances specifically for their audiences. There is not a > lot of point in writing simple dances for audiences wanting sophisticated > material. However, doing more complex dances does act as a barrier to new > people and to younger people participating. Our folk dance clubs > in the UK > are getting more and more elderley. Many have an average age in the late > 50s or mid-60s. No young people are joining them (would you as a > 5/10/15/20 year old want to go and socialise with a group who were all > capable of being your granny?). Most are losing members through natural > attrition faster than they can get new members. > > Some of the clubs have managed to become real communities in their own > right. These tend to have a younger(ish) profile and to have a greater > chance of lasting longer. However, they too have problems in attracting > young people. > > Another aspect of divorcing the dance from its roots is the fact that in > the past, dance style, clothing worn, music played etc, all reflected > contemporary life - perhaps a little old fashioned but certainly not as > distinct as it is today. Today, the folk dance community has become > divorced from today - yea, even deliberately attempting to shun > today. Our > dance communities are an attempt to escape modern life - quiet music, > operating theatre lights, no achohol, no smoking.... > > However, the young people want to dance - and you will find > plenty of them > (here in the UK) if you go to the right place (eg Sidmouth Folk Festival > Late Night Extra). They dance to bands that are more like pop > groups, with > loud music, low lights etc. > > Until we put folk dancing back into the local community and back into a > contemporary context we will just have to rely on extensive marketing to > get our minority point of view across. > > > > Michael Barraclough > http://www.michaelbarraclough.com > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 11:52:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:52:12 -0500 From: CPChurchOffice-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <084CE46C.474DB3E6.A76DBB7C-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I would love to see that exhausted but happy look on our Elkton young and old people's faces again. Tom Vincent has taught the Elkton, Maryland group several times with excellent results. I was amazed to see him teach Barbarini's Tambourine and in a short space of time have a large group of mostly inexperienced dancers able to dance it without even calling it! As to the previous posts, I think the video is worth doing and could and should be done carefully to market and to entice people to enjoy the dances. Although I appreciate Trev's insightful comments, I don't think we would be trying to sell it as something that it is not, so much as showing it at its best. We can add in some caveats if necessary but let's show it with our ideals flying high. It is a wonderful activity and though any human endeavor is imperfect there is much hidden treasure in this activity. Even though some might be disappointed with some of their experiences many may continue to enjoy it and participate. We are so very diverse and there are many ways to win and to lose people! Isn't it better, in the case of dancing, to have tried and lost than never to have tried at all? I really enjoyed Michael Barraclough's essay on community and dance as a part of community life. I would see the video project as an invitation, a warm invitation, to be part of a community or to simply take the dancing for itself. People could and would choose how to respond to it, dance groups could and would choose how to extend the invitation and how to welcome visitors and newcomers. I offer a general thank you to all of you who participate in and maintain this group, it's fascinating, encouraging, and very useful, with a diverse and generally positive group of contributors filled with all kinds of knowledge, skill, tact, senses of humor, and great generosity of spirit. Margaret Talbot ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:50:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:50:27 -0500 From: Campbell Kaynor Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There's been a lot of talk about the youngsters. Don't overlook the value of recruiting newcomers from middle-aged people and seniors as well. I operate on the principle that interested people can come from anywhere. If you think there are enough newcomers from the senior crowd to keep a dance alive, go after them. The recruitment techniques may have to vary depending on the target group and the situation. For the older folks, you may have to do some demos where the performers find partners in the audience or do a few workshops at the church/the senior center and talk it up with the Yoga instructor who leads yoga classes there. For college students, you may have to contact the teacher of a history class. Volunteer to teach students how to dance a few ECD that are relevant to the period they are studying. Explain that these dances are fun to do for pure social recreation reasons and see if any of those students have connections to the Outing Club or the student activities committee. Perhaps they can help to arrange an event featuring ECD as a beginning of the year get to know each other thing.... Although the success rate at recruiting in these ways may be low, it is fun to do and if you keep at it you always find a few who are forever grateful that they stumbled upon this art. All you need is a few avid converts to talk it up with their friends and you may have a healthy group of new dancers evolving. (As I read it, this all sounds pretty good and it is what I did when I was single, but having a family sure makes it hard to do these days!) CK ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:35:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 08:59:18 -0700 From: "Ed St.Germain" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing Assembly of Philadelphia To: ECD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For those interested in the more genteel refinements of the 18th century, I've added a new feature to EnglishCountryDancing.org: http://englishcountrydancing.org/assemblies.html Rather apropos for our upcoming Washington's Birthday Ball, as the following toast was proposed by Washington at an "Assembly" in honor of his birthday in 1792 in the Capitol of the U.S. (Philadelphia.) 'The Dancing Assembly of Philadelphia - May the members thereof, and the Fair who honour it with their presence, long continue in the enjoyment of an amusement so innocent and agreeable'. Best regards, Ed ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:53:42 -0600 From: "M.G. Mudrey, Jr." Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: A1 for Lovers' Knot by Jim Kitch not clear to me To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040206175146.01be2308-AT-mail.mhtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_9QPBpjUjN8hHChgSHJNlnQ)" References: <01L5P7IWKGHM92WKA1-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> --Boundary_(ID_9QPBpjUjN8hHChgSHJNlnQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Been workin' myself up for the Minneapolis Playford Ball in a few weeks, got the dance list...but As I review my notes, the A1 part of Jim Kitch's dance is not clear to m. Any help out there? --Boundary_(ID_9QPBpjUjN8hHChgSHJNlnQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Been workin' myself up for the Minneapolis Playford Ball in a few weeks, got the dance list...but As I review my notes, the A1 part of Jim Kitch's dance is not clear to m.

Any help out there? --Boundary_(ID_9QPBpjUjN8hHChgSHJNlnQ)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 16:16:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: online dance instructions To: ecd-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L6ADAZ05UO925NK7-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Fred Cotton (email address not given) writes: ----------------------------------------------------------------- In looking through the ECD lsit archive for January, I noticed the discussion about lists of dance instructions, music, etc. I've found the following web sites to be useful for Scottish. I don't know how all the copyright issues are resolved, but perhaps someone could find out. http://www.strathspey.org/dd/ (list of dances, music and recordings - web interface to Alan Paterson's data base) http://www.minicrib.care4free.net/ (dance instructions for about 2000 dances) http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/findtune.html tune finder) ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:54:24 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <005b01c3ed14$eeb89970$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <1076088310.8.32450-mab-AT-galahad> Sounds like fun! There's a growing group of semi-Heavy Metal Celtic bands (Brother, Rogues, Blackthorn, Glengarry Boys, Prodigals, etc.) that have taken jigs and reels into hitherto unknown directions. Bagpipes and electric guitars. It would be fun to get them to do a set of 'jacked up' ECD tunes to appeal to a younger audience. There's a Celtic music festival in nearby PA every June (http://www.parenaissancefaire.com ) that exposes the masses to these not-quite traditional Celtic bands. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:25 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD > Tom Vincent wrote > Has anyone doen a 'Zesty' ECD session? > > I have in the past done a number of "Playford Ballsups" as well as a > "Baroque n' Roll" evening. Young(er) people are not bothered where the > dances come from. They just want to enjoy themselves in a contemporary > way. Wind the music up. Turn the lights down low. Strobe lights and > glitter balls are great. The original tunes were the contemporary "hit > parade" of the day. Why not try to use some well known modern tunes > instead. Encourage people to skip (single or double - both probably closer > to the original than the way we (dance) walk the dances today. Try > replacing "set & turn single" by "pogo and twizzle" (twizzle is a morris > move where you spin around without your feet touching the ground, except > before and after the move). Just some ideas .... > > Michael > http//www.michaelbarraclough.com > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:17:47 -0500 From: Rwinslowdance-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Including all ages in the dance community. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <34A6436D.5718808A.50D3B760-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello all, A few thoughts. There are ways that have worked in including all ages in the dance community. And I think part of it is being supportive, welcoming and interested in those who come. * My two children became lovely dancers as young teenagers for several reasons. It was folk dancing and they could like others learn by dancing behind the lines and when they joined the lines if they weren't right on it didn't matter. They were treated like persons not as children. After dancing many of us went out for pizza and beer (sodas for the two of them) and they participated in discussions with everyone. The other dancers were interested in them as persons. * The Philadelphia ECD has a monthly Community dance which is oriented toward having fun dancing and toward bringing children and less experienced dancers into the community. A variety of dances are done, not just ECD. * Another Phila. area dance community being near a college has had several local college students move over from the English/Scottish dance gym classes to become regular English or Scottish dancers in the Philadelphia area lending vibrancy and continuity. (Teaching dance at colleges may need a certain critical mass to sustain it and former students as teachers.) The student athleticism usually becomes tempered over time into a wonderful grace. On the other hand the same dance community lost several older members several years ago when when the dance pace was picked up. * As we age there is a tendency for some dancers to want the dances to be more gently paced. While at 65 I like the complex and elegant and slower paced dances, I have also come to enjoy doing those with more pace and drive and doing them well and with energy, esp. since that is also English Country Dancing. Good dancing. Peter Ogle ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:14:01 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <004501c3ed0f$4a9818c0$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <002a01c3ecce$1233ab20$673f0751-AT-trevormo> Since I never even came *close* to suggesting 'forcing' anyone to do anything, I think you inadvertently ended up validating my point. Recruiting young dancers helps them form lifelong habits. Getting older folk to start dancing is a harder route: They've already got hobbies they've been into for years. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "trev" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD > Why do you want to produce a video showing ECD as it isn't? > > If you promote a video to young(er?) people to try and get them to > dances, and they turn up to find mostly us old(er?) lot, do you think > they will turn up again? > > And if they all do turn up, will we be able to keep up with them still?! > > Tom said: > I think everyone acknowledges that if we don't recruit > younger dancers, the dances will fade into > history...once again. :) > > Well I don't acknowledge that. We have younger people, students etc. > quite happily dancing the more enthusiastic dance styles - shall we call > it ceilidh for want of definations that nobody ever understands. Then > we have the more graceful (again for want of a better term) ECD. OK - > at festivals their is a smal cross-over, but at normal ECD dances, if we > forced the younger dancers to do our style of dancing then that would > stop them dancing our style of dancing, and most proberly their own as > well, and that would kill off future generations of ECD dancers. Also, > if we forced ourselves into their dances to dance ECD style they > wouldn't like that either. > > So, leave each to our own. Yes - encourage others, but if we try to go > out and force people into ECD, that will surely stop it faster? At the > moment we have younger people dancing - let their style evolve the same > as ours has. It may not evolve the way we think it should, but that is > the folk process. It won't fade, but it may change. > > Trev > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:59:25 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <006301c3ed15$a20e7b20$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: How wonderful, Bill! I've met the most wonderful people dancing. The CDSS motto 'friendship set to music' is pure gold. Beautiful music, beautiful motion, great people...an island of joy and warmth is an all-to-often cold and cruel world. It's sometimes sad to find out that a cherished dancer holds diametrically opposite philosophical views, but maybe just enjoying the dance together is enough. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill McDonald" To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:50 PM Subject: RE: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD > Excellent post, Michael. Excellent! > > You've fairly captured the nub of the problem. Newcomers are naturally > intimidated by the complexity that is almost always present at most > established ECD venues. I'm not an ECD master by any stretch of the > imagination, but I'm not a stranger to the art form either and I know that > I'm cowed when walking into a room full of strangers who are all obviously > *very* adept and very serious and very accomplished at what they are doing. > > We've been using country dances in Dallas over the past 5 years specifically > as a mechanism to build community. We have large turnouts (between 50 and > 100 people; more for balls) of mostly families and young singles, and at any > given dance we'll have new folks. This constant churn makes for a fairly > simple repertoire to accommodate the group's fluctuating knowledge and > experience base (some nights the group can handle anything I can throw at > them and other nights it's like pulling teeth to get through the simplest of > dances--a function of the experience chemistry present in the group from > month to month). I sometimes get frustrated over our lack of "progress," > but I am reminded by my loving wife of our prime purpose: Building > Community. > > Dance excellence may vary, but we always have lots of fun and enjoy each > other's company. We've found that young people (15-24 year olds) actually > seek out the genre because of the chance to painlessly interact with members > of the opposite sex in a way that doesn't require a constant attention to > one other person. We're not the prettiest dancers in the world, but we > enjoy each other's company a great deal. On those occasions when pull off a > triple minor with mostly everybody intact at the end, well that's just icing > on the cake! > > Thanks for your insightful post. I'm going to save it. > > McDjr ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 19:44:53 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD at colleges To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <004d01c3ed13$9a577410$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <020620041642.10044.5798-AT-att.net> It really is a challenge. Unless there's some core or 'tipping point' percentage of students that get involved, it'll be seen as an activity of outsiders (or -- worse yet -- predators) who are simply out of place at a near-campus location. There are very few activities in modern American society that a wide variety of ages enjoy together. I have heard of girls going with their mothers and grandmothers to Tom Jones concerts, but that's probably one of the rare exceptions that might prove the rule. If the dancing is shown to be fun, mildly 'hip' (or 'phat') and not something they'll feel uncomfortable or out-of-place at, they may join in, but it's an uphill battle until the initial group feels at home. That might happen if a group of them came in at once and became regulars or, less likely, by word-of-mouth by the few pioneers who boldly went where few students were. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 11:42 AM Subject: Re: ECD at colleges > Our weekly SCD class is held in one of the dance studios at Brevard Community > College in Melbourne, Florida, and even though we put our signs out in the > hall and invite students to join us, very few students have ever even come > into the dance studio to try it. We have notices in the local newspaper every > week, we have danced in the cafeteria at the community college and at their > Cultural Diversity Day, but it hasn't helped to recruit any college students. > Once or twice a ballet student from the other dance studio has come in to > look at us while we were dancing, and one woman joined us for a few weeks, > but that's the extent of our recruiting at the community college. Two of > our "Scottish Country Dancing" signs disappeared from the hall at one point > and never were seen again. We can't quite figure out why anyone would want > our signs! > > Over the years, we have tried to recruit students from Florida Institute of > Technology also, but it's difficult to get students to attend a dance class > when they have tests to take and papers to write and part-time jobs, etc. > Many times students don't have cars available to get to a dance class. If the > dance class is held at the college, it would be easier for the students to > attend. Maybe if you entice them with homemade refreshments at the break, > they will flock to the class. If you serve it, they will come! > > Catie Condran Geist (frustrated after 24 years of trying to entice new > dancers to attend weekly dance classes in Melbourne, Florida) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:36:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:14:30 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <006901c3ed17$bd88dd80$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <084CE46C.474DB3E6.A76DBB7C-AT-aol.com> Well, I'm always up for either teaching or dancing! One of my goals this year is to begin unleashing my marketing skills to get the word out about ECD in DE (and the borderlands). I've been collecting e-ddresses, fax numbers and other contact information for newspapers, magazines, weeklies and radio stations in order to get the word out about our various dances. Nobody seems to be doing that and I've got quite a bit of experience doing that sort of thing. When I first moved to DE I put together a dance and got in the local newspaper, resulting in a pretty good attendance for a first-time dance. I'd love to know what other dancers or dance groups have done successfully (or not so successfully) to promote their dances in their communities. I certainly agree that a warm welcome to newbies is crucial. Few things turn people off faster than a cold shoulder. And I've seen it happen more often than not. I don't think it's intentional, but more a result of nobody being the designated greeter (either officially or not) so old-timers catching up with each other often result in some first-timers slipping through the cracks. It's hard as a caller to do that and prepare for the dances as well, so it falls to someone else to do it. I think each dance should have a recognized greeter who is in charge of identifying newbies, getting them a name-tag, first-dance partner and introducing them around. That would probably improve retention rates significantly. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD > I would love to see that exhausted but happy look on our Elkton young and old people's faces again. Tom Vincent has taught the Elkton, Maryland group several times with excellent results. I was amazed to see him teach Barbarini's Tambourine and in a short space of time have a large group of mostly inexperienced dancers able to dance it without even calling it! > > As to the previous posts, I think the video is worth doing and could and should be done carefully to market and to entice people to enjoy the dances. Although I appreciate Trev's insightful comments, I don't think we would be trying to sell it as something that it is not, so much as showing it at its best. We can add in some caveats if necessary but let's show it with our ideals flying high. It is a wonderful activity and though any human endeavor is imperfect there is much hidden treasure in this activity. > > Even though some might be disappointed with some of their experiences many may continue to enjoy it and participate. We are so very diverse and there are many ways to win and to lose people! Isn't it better, in the case of dancing, to have tried and lost than never to have tried at all? > I really enjoyed Michael Barraclough's essay on community and dance as a part of community life. I would see the video project as an invitation, a warm invitation, to be part of a community or to simply take the dancing for itself. People could and would choose how to respond to it, dance groups could and would choose how to extend the invitation and how to welcome visitors and newcomers. > > I offer a general thank you to all of you who participate in and maintain this group, it's fascinating, encouraging, and very useful, with a diverse and generally positive group of contributors filled with all kinds of knowledge, skill, tact, senses of humor, and great generosity of spirit. > > Margaret Talbot ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:03:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 11:43:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L6CWZPM3CI92Q8OV-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <1076088310.8.32450-mab-AT-galahad> Tom wrote: > There's a growing group of semi-Heavy Metal Celtic bands (Brother, Rogues, > Blackthorn, Glengarry Boys, Prodigals, etc.) that have taken jigs and reels > into hitherto unknown directions. Bagpipes and electric guitars. It would > be fun to get them to do a set of 'jacked up' ECD tunes to appeal to a > younger audience. There's a Celtic music festival in nearby PA every June > (http://www.parenaissancefaire.com ) that exposes the masses to these > not-quite traditional Celtic bands. I don't know the bands you mention, but last night I attended the PEERS (www.peers.org) "Return of the King Ball", with music by Brazen Hussey (Leigh Ann Hussey being the flashy fiddler/leader); this is a "Celtic fusion" band with fiddle, electric bass, drums. It was a very well-attended event full of happy people, doing waltzes, polkas, a mazurka, a schottische, two tangos(!), two Renaissance dances, two or three easy country dances, and a few "Celtic fusion" jams in a packed-full hall. I enjoyed it, but it really wasn't for the quality of the dancing. Why I bring it up now is the difficulty I had with the music. Basically, this band - which I think at least shares personnel with bands PEERS has had for their Courts of Faerie ball or their Macbeth Coronation Ball - transparently doesn't play for country dancing or Victorian couple dancing very often, and it's clear that while sounding great they barely know what they're doing. (Annoying feature number one was that drum and bass didn't see the point of agreeing on a rhythm; it's harder to waltz if drum is emphasizing the "1" and bass is emphasizing the "2". Annoying feature number two: Drum understood the importance of keeping a steady rhythm, but apparently had no idea that anyone would care about phrasing - this is especially a problem (for me at least) in tango, where important dramatic things happen at the end of the phrase. (Not that I tango often or well.) Annoying feature number three: Tempo changes in mid-tune in couple dances. (Tendency to waltz to ballads, and drop the tempo when the singer starts.) Annoying feature number four: Sacrificing the "have a note under every footstep" feature of many country dances to dramatic silences, etc, which is exciting for concerts but not so good for dances.) This is a band that does gigs, has a following, and is in many senses pretty good. But they're inexperienced playing for country/couple-dance, and they apparently haven't had good advice, either. That didn't stop me from dancing - barefoot, since a hobbit costume demands it - through five hours with two breaks - and it was a swell event with a lot of happy people. But if you're trying to get people into country dancing for that sense of every dancer dancing with their partner, with their set, and with the music, you'd better make sure your Metal Celts have a clue. (There are a number of fully-clued-up English ceilidh bands who might be able to pass for Celtic Metal in the dark, with the light behind them, but you probably don't have any handily available to you.) -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:50:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:50:08 -0500 (EST) From: David.Millstone-AT-valley.net (David Millstone) Subject: age appeal To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37159469-AT-enfield.VALLEY.NET> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In the many recent posts about attracting younger people to ECD, I haven't seen a mention of a thoughtful article by Jenny Beer and Joanna Reiner, "Dancing on College Campuses." They have been deeply involved with the various folk dance scenes at Swarthmore College in recent years, and they shared their collected thoughts at a 2002 discussion at the New England Folk Festival, with a write-up that you can find here: http://www.neffa.org/docs/campus.html Lots of good ideas as well as careful caveats... David Millstone ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:31:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:28:31 -0800 From: Gary Shapiro Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A1 for Lovers' Knot by Jim Kitch not clear to me To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01L5P7IWKGHM92WKA1-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <6.0.0.22.2.20040206175146.01be2308-AT-mail.mhtc.net> At 5:53 PM -0600, on 2/6/04, M.G. Mudrey, Jr. wrote: >Been workin' myself up for the Minneapolis Playford Ball in a few >weeks, got the dance list...but As I review my notes, the A1 part of >Jim Kitch's dance is not clear to m. > >Any help out there? I don't know what your notes say but I'll take a crack at it. The first 4 bars (8 steps) might be called a double Mad Robin figure, or a shuttle: dance clockwise around your neighbor (the path of a back-to-back), the whole time facing and looking at your partner. The remaining 4 bars: take two hands with your partner for a 1/2 poussette (clockwise). -- Peace, Gary ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 14:47:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:47:25 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Some thoughts on age appeal in ECD To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003301c3ee95$869ed5c0$1d8c4a0c-AT-paulstam> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <084CE46C.474DB3E6.A76DBB7C-AT-aol.com> <006901c3ed17$bd88dd80$6ec35244-AT-Hercules> ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Vincent <