Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:54:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:51:40 -0600 (CST) From: mgmudrey-AT-mhtc.net Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Well Hall MP3 download site To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3193.144.92.125.29.1067629900.squirrel-AT-webmail.mhtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: mp3 down load site for Bare Necessities English Country Dances http://www.artistdirect.com/store/artist/album/0,,48429,00.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:54:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 11:30:19 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: [SPAM:#] Re: Farewell Marian -- unrelated question To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031101.121759.-355763.16.gmurrow-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT RE: tunes in Barnes suitable for final waltz (asked by Jon B.) On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:41:41 -0600 Paul Stamler writes: > > "Irish Lamentation". "Wood Duck". "Margaret's Waltz". > > Peace, > Paul "Ramsgate Assembly" "Bonny Cuckoo [aka "She begs for more"] Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:54:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 10:07:36 +0000 From: trev Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Well Hall To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002701c3a060$28a1c1e0$50360751-AT-trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031031154912.17404.qmail-AT-web20607.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to everyone for their prompt replies! I've found someone with Bare Necessites, and didn't realise it was on Broadside Band English Country Dances from Playford's Dancing Master which I already have, but have not got a filing system organised yet! Which has just made me think, is there a web based index of ecd recordings, much on the same line as Hugh Stewart's on-line index of where dances are published? Cheers, Trev --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 27/10/03 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:54:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 20:30:45 -0500 From: franch-AT-juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Well Hall To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031031.203045.-441753.5.franch-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There is a very fine version of Well Hall, at danceable length (4:24) on one of my favorite ECD discs, called Stepping into the 18th Century. It was produced by Gadsby's Tavern Museum in Alexandria, Va (US) by the museum. Marty Taylor, one of the musicians on the CD, has a supply of them and is willing to sell them via mail for the usual $15 plus postage. I recommended the CD on the list a few years ago, and I know she sold at least one that way--I hope to the list members satisfaction. Marty's email address is MWebbTaylor-AT-aol.com Other musicians are Ralph Gordon, Sue Richards, Steve Hickman, and Richard Irwin, who will be known to at least some on the list. Dances, in addition to Well Hall, are Irish Lamentation, The Bishop, Female Saylor, Successful Campaign, Sun Assembly, The Alderman's Hat, Scotch Morris, Stony Point, Red House, L'Amour Du Village, The Geud Man of Ballingigh, Flowers of Edinburg, Wakefield Hunt, Mr. Isaac's Maggot, Indian Queen, and Child Grove. Mike Franch ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:55:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:01:14 -0500 From: Susan Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Regency Dance workshop NYC Sunday 11/2 To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: susan-AT-generalist.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT (Regular monthly posting) Summary: New York City, Regency (1810's) dance workshop this Sunday. http://www.elegantarts.org/ Long version: For the New York City-accessible and historically curious, my first Sunday Regency dance workshop is this Sunday, November 2nd, from 1:00 to 4:00 pm. The Regency Dance workshop is my regular monthly workshop on dances suitable for early nineteenth century (Regency, Jane Austen, Napoleonic Wars) England. This month we will be reviewing dances specifically for our Regency Assembly, to be held in New Haven, CT, on Saturday, November 22nd. More information about that is at: http://www.elegantarts.org/ballindex.html. No prior experience needed. The full calendar for (mostly) first Sunday Regency workshops is at: http://www.elegantarts.org/calendar03.html. The 2004 calendar is coming very soon now. All material is taken directly from primary sources and reconstructed and taught by yours truly. If you have questions about it, email me directly. Cost: $15, or $10 for first-timers Shoes: flat shoes only, please. Heels are inappropriate. PLEASE RSVP to: meredith-AT-elegantarts.org - the number of people we are expecting affects how I prepare for the class! (But you can still show up if you don't RSVP.) Location: Hop, Swing, and a Jump, 132 Crosby Street #2 for directions, see our webpage, http://www.elegantarts.org/classprac.html/ This will be our last time at Hop-Swing as they are losing their space. New site next month! For more information about the Elegant Arts Society, please see our website: http://www.elegantarts.org To receive these announcements directly, please email info-AT-elegantarts.org to be added to our mailing list. Susan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 13:55:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 21:26:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Karina Oneill Subject: [SPAM:####] Italian-crafted Rolex - only $65 - $140! Free SHIPPING! jsmgvazmsjd To: ecd-request-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_FyhTZOc88KG71UlRLTNhrg)" --Boundary_(ID_FyhTZOc88KG71UlRLTNhrg) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT please note to send ALL REPLY e-mail direct to our Sales Representative at: Questions-AT-BargainWatches.biz Hi, Thank you for expressing interest in ATGWS watches. We would like to take this opportunity to offer you our fine selection of Italian crafted Rolex Timepieces. You can view our large selection of Rolexes (including Breitling, Tag Heuer, Cartier etc) at: http://www.BargainWatches.biz For all orders placed in the month of November, all shipping and handling charges will be free. As we are the direct manufacturers, you are guaranteed of lowest prices and highest quality each and every time you purchase from us. You may also be interested to know that we have the following brands available in our wide selection as well: 1. Rolex 2. Blancpain 3. Fortis 4. Jaeger LeCoutre 5. Longines 6. Mont Blanc 7. Movado 8. Oris 9. Roger Dubuis 10. Ulysse 11. Zenith 12. Audemar Piguet 13. Breitling 14. Bvglari 15. Cartier 16. Corum 17. Dunhill 18. Franck Muller 19. Gerard Perregaux 20. IWC 21. IWC 22. Panerai 23. Patek Philippe 24. Tag Heuer 25. Vacheron Constantin If you see anything that might interest you, or if you have any questions, please don't hesitate to visit our website at: http://www.BargainWatches.biz I certainly look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Cal Division Sales Manager ATGWS You received this email because your have previous purchased from, or inquired about our product line under ATGWS. If you do not want to receive further mailings from ATGWS, unsubscribe by sending an email with the title heading: DELETE in the subject line to Unsubscribe-AT-bargainwatches.biz please note to send ALL REPLY e-mail direct to our Sales Representative at: Questions-AT-BargainWatches.biz f mwizqnlx omd hpol txgtjovard npk iicoo chk s aej hhcxhdqf --Boundary_(ID_FyhTZOc88KG71UlRLTNhrg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 15:33:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:33:53 -0500 (EST) From: SallenNic-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Betrothal To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <161.277cf575.2cd59ce1-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 6.00pm yesterday, October 31st, Aidan Broadbridge of Lanark, Scotland, and Annette Cable of Elizabethton, Tennessee announced their betrothal. Both families are highly delighted, needless to say. Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:42:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:43:28 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Betrothal To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031102014328.77183.qmail-AT-web41511.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- SallenNic-AT-AOL.COM wrote: > At 6.00pm yesterday, October 31st, Aidan Broadbridge of > Lanark, Scotland, > and Annette Cable of Elizabethton, Tennessee announced > their betrothal. Both > families are highly delighted, needless to say. > > Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland > HREF="http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com">http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com > Congratulations to you all. HGope you gopt my sketch. Ben Stein __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 08:52:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:50:22 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Betrothal To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <004201c3a161$689fab20$7e6d550c-AT-paulstam> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <161.277cf575.2cd59ce1-AT-aol.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: <> And so are their travel agents, no doubt. :-)}}} Congratulations to the happy couple! Peace, Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 09:18:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2003 12:18:45 -0500 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: [SPAM:####] Italian-crafted Rolex - only $65 - $140! Free SHIPPING! jsmgvazmsjd To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000101c3a165$5fb06370$2250bc3f-AT-g9tfz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What in the world is this doing on the ECD list? And how did it get here? I certainly expressed no interested in Italian rolex watches. I'm happy with my $15 K-Mart special. Pat > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Karina Oneill > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 4:26 PM > To: ecd-request-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: [SPAM:####] Italian-crafted Rolex - only $65 - $140! > Free SHIPPING! jsmgvazmsjd ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 15:38:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 23:35:42 +0000 From: trev Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Farewell Marian questions To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003b01c3a263$6515dee0$433c0751-AT-trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01L2DOW7MSCW95MSJK-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <001901c39e24$b6439700$064479d5-AT-trevormo> Previously I wrote some details about Farewel Marion and its composer. On reading this again I realised that Gwyn Williams and W.S. Gwynnn Williams may not infact be the same person! The easiest way to check this was to write to the secretary of the WFDS, as he and his wife who we are still friendly with. The relevant section is reproduced below and shows that they are in fact 2 different people, and that he is still alive! He quotes:- With regard to the Gwyn(ne) Williams' - they are two entities, one sadly deceased the other still alive and kicking at Bangor. WS Gwynne Williams, as you rightly mentioned was the publisher and founder member of WFDS along with Lois Blake and others. He lived at Llangollen where he was also founder member of the Llangollen International Eisteddfod. His wife, Betty, died a couple of years ago The other is Gwyn Williams, Bangor, known in WFDS circles as Gwyn Bangor. He is the deviser/arranger of "Ffarwel i'r Marian" (Farewell to the shore) and other dances noteably "Clawdd Offa" (Offa's Dyke); Rhyd y Meirch (Stallion's Ford); and most recently a dance used at the Eisteddfod to greet the winner of a medal. I remember Gwyn Williams teaching "Y Gaseg Eira" (The Snowball - a 'Welsh "Morris" Dance') at a course held in Bangor in the 80's. This is "off the top of my head" - to translate a Welsh phrase. If you need any further information I would have to seek it elsewhere. End quote. So I hope that clears up the situation, especially for Beth (and Alan?). Trev (Monson) > Hi Beth, > > I can't add a lot to Alan's comments, but, > Looking through Dawns (the magazine of WFDS) W.S.Gwynn Williams was > chairman of Cymdeithas Ddawns Werin Cymru (The Welsh Folk Dance > Society) from 1949-1971, Vice-president from 1971-1975 and president > from 1975-1979. I don't know what happened to him after that. > > He was the Proprietor and General Editor of The Gwynn Publishing Co. > from Llangollen, and this company published many Welsh Folk Dance and > Song books. > "Welsh Morris and other Country Dances" which I have in front of me was > copyrighted 1938 which is over 10 years before the WFDS was started. > > The leaflet that Alan mentioned - "4 Welsh Barn Dances" states that > Ffarwel Marian was ARRANGED by Gwynn Williams. However, the next dance > "Clawdd Offa" or "Offa's Dyke" or "Oswestry Square" was DEVISED by him > (I never realised that before now - and I've been dancing and calling > that dance for years!) > So it looks like he has a composed at least one dance - and it is still > danced a lot. > As Ffarwel Marian was arranged by him he could have well found it in > some older collection? > > The dance is called Ffarwel Marian - Goodbye Marian. The tune is called > Ffarwel I'r Marian - Farewell to the Shore, so Alan is partly right - > but that's only because I have got the leaflet in front of me. > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 27/10/03 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 22:10:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 23:10:05 -0700 From: jared gottlieb Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Final Dance at Well Hall To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT TUESDAY 11th November - is the last day of English dancing at Well Hall. To all interested in English Country Dancing, an invitation to dance in this fine dance hall on the last occasion we will be able to dance there. Please bring a plate of food to share. When - 7.45 pm Where - Well Hall, 11-13 Yann Street, Preston (Melbourne, Victoria (Australia)) Enquiries - George on (03) 9890 5650 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:41:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 16:41:32 -0500 From: Den Collins Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: =?8859_1?B?k0E=?= Flutter of Pleasure" ECD Holiday Ball in Greenwich Village, NYC To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031107214132.HZPR1420.out003.verizon.net-AT-outgoing.verizon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Saturday, December 6 “A Flutter of Pleasure” A Holiday English Country Dance Ball in Greenwich Village The New York Lesbian & Gay Contradance Series invites you to dance with us this holiday season at the FIRST EVER gender-role free English Country Dance Ball on Saturday, December 6. There will be a workshop in the afternoon from 2:00 to 5:00, the Ball from 7:30 to 10:30 that evening, and sumptuous desserts and refreshments served at the evening break. Graham Christian will be calling. You can check out his program and view the dance instructions at our website, www.lcfd.org/nyc (should be active by Monday, November 10th). Music will be by the Flying Romanos. Period, formal or festive attire is requested, but not required, so break out those pearls and opera gloves, the waistcoats and breeches, and come help us celebrate this inaugural event. Combined workshop and Ball, $15 Ball only, $10 RSVP appreciated, but not required. Room 301, The LGBT Community Center The Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender Community Center is located in the heart of Greenwich Village at 208 West 13th Street, New York, NY 10011. You can reach the Center easily by subway: on the IRT Broadway/Seventh Avenue line, take the IRT 1, 2, 3 or 9 (the red line) to 14th Street at Seventh Avenue; on the IND line, take the A, C or E (the blue line) to 14th Street at Eighth Avenue. For more info, call Brooks, 718.796.4422, or Tom, 718.499.1936, or visit http://www.lcfd.org/nyc You can also e-mail Den Collins at den.collins-AT-verizon.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 19:48:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 21:40:26 -0600 From: "M.G. Mudrey, Jr." Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Help Anna Maria - Fried's Dance To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031109213918.01be4e60-AT-mail.mhtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT need a lead to acquire a copy of Ease and Elegance or the directions for Fried's Anna Maria...aka track 10 Bare Necessities at the Ball (Boston Centre vol 6) M.G. Mudrey 106 Ravine Road Mount Horeb, WI 53572 mgmudrey-AT-mhtc.net 608-437-3701 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:33:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:32:58 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Anna Maria: Help is on the way To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031110043258.82990.qmail-AT-web20602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT With all due respect to Fried's brilliance as a choreographer, I would like to squelch firmly any idea that she somehow *wrote* "Anna Maria." I don't think Mr. Mudrey said quite this, but some might misinterpret from a casual glance. "Anna Maria" is a dance that appeared in Playford in 1695 (that's B.F.: Before Fried). While she does include an interpretation in one of her volumes, I regard it as in no way difficult to interpret from Playford (and I expect she would say the same). The original text: "The 1. Cu. take hands and lead through the 2. Cu. and cast up into their own places:_The 2. Cu. lead up through the 1. Cu. and cast off into their own places:_ All four hands half round, then cross over with your own Partners:_The 1. Cu. being in the 2.Cu. place, go the figure thro' till the 1. Cu. comes into the 2. Cu. place." So: A1 1s lead down through the 2s and cast back up to places. A2 2d lead up through the 1s and cast back down to places. [These leads and casts are slow--12 beats! and dancers should be encouraged to use all the time. Originally perhaps courante steps or slow bouree steps] B1 1s and 2s circle half-way; partners change places, passing right shoulders: all end facing up. B2 Double figures-of-eight, 2s casting and 1s crossing to begin [much brisker movements!]. "The Anna Maria" that appears in Fallibroome 5 is an entirely different dance: it comes from the Thomas Budd collection of 1781. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:55:22 -0800 From: Michael Siemon Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Anna Maria: Help is on the way To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <16EBB9E4-133A-11D8-8646-000A9578B83A-AT-panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031110043258.82990.qmail-AT-web20602.mail.yahoo.com> On Nov 9, 2003, at 8:32 PM, Graham Christian wrote: > With all due respect to Fried's brilliance as a > choreographer, I would like to squelch firmly any idea > that she somehow *wrote* "Anna Maria." I don't think > Mr. Mudrey said quite this, but some might > misinterpret from a casual glance. > "Anna Maria" is a dance that appeared in Playford in > 1695 (that's B.F.: Before Fried). While she does > include an interpretation in one of her volumes, I > regard it as in no way difficult to interpret from > Playford (and I expect she would say the same). Certainly. Fried is very much concerned that early dances have a major part in the current repertoire, and she will call attention to them in the midst of her own dances, when they are not otherwise well-known. Most of her publications include a fair number of such cases. Sometimes there is major "reconstruction" -- but I think her main consideration is "here is a good dance which isn't well known". ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:59:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:59:01 -0800 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Anna Maria: Help is on the way To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031109204802.0249ccd8-AT-popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In response to Graham's note, let me add that Fried has never claimed the interpretation of Anna Maria in Ease & Elegance as her own, but in that book states it was "Contributed by Frank Van Cleef" to the Pinewoods Fund Dance Collection (where he called it Maria Anna, in an attempt to prevent its being confused with the Fallibroome dance). She does, however, enjoy calling the dance, and recommends a skipping step for the double figure of 8. Yours in the ongoing search for dance trivia, Sharon At 08:32 PM 11/9/2003 -0800, you wrote: >With all due respect to Fried's brilliance as a >choreographer, I would like to squelch firmly any idea >that she somehow *wrote* "Anna Maria." I don't think >Mr. Mudrey said quite this, but some might >misinterpret from a casual glance. >"Anna Maria" is a dance that appeared in Playford in >1695 (that's B.F.: Before Fried). While she does >include an interpretation in one of her volumes, I >regard it as in no way difficult to interpret from >Playford (and I expect she would say the same). >The original text: >"The 1. Cu. take hands and lead through the 2. Cu. and >cast up into their own places:_The 2. Cu. lead up >through the 1. Cu. and cast off into their own >places:_ >All four hands half round, then cross over with your >own Partners:_The 1. Cu. being in the 2.Cu. place, go >the figure thro' till the 1. Cu. comes into the 2. Cu. >place." >So: >A1 1s lead down through the 2s and cast back up to >places. >A2 2d lead up through the 1s and cast back down to >places. >[These leads and casts are slow--12 beats! and dancers >should be encouraged to use all the time. Originally >perhaps courante steps or slow bouree steps] >B1 1s and 2s circle half-way; partners change places, >passing right shoulders: all end facing up. >B2 Double figures-of-eight, 2s casting and 1s crossing >to begin [much brisker movements!]. > >"The Anna Maria" that appears in Fallibroome 5 is an >entirely different dance: it comes from the Thomas >Budd collection of 1781. > >===== >Graham Christian >"They love dance well that will dance among thorns." > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard >http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:10:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:10:03 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Anna Maria: Help is on the way, &c. &c. &c. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031110161003.67777.qmail-AT-web20605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I wholly endorse what both Michael and Sharon have said: true on all counts. Which reminds me that Frank van Cleef's work as a reconstructor is too little known--his *Twenty-Four Country Dances from the Playford Editions* includes "Alchurch" and "Well-Hall," as well as "Bump Her Belly" (and it's a darned shame that the dance doesn't quite live up to the name, but that's not van Cleef's fault). About two years ago, I did a little investigation, and I think I have a good candidate for the identity of Anna Maria, but I won't bore the list with it. Interested parties may write to me privately for the dirt. G ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:15:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:10:55 +0000 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Anna Maria: Help is on the way To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001a01c3a7a5$3c5a5020$0500a8c0-AT-ntworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The interpretation provided by Graham for the B2 part of Anna Maria is: "B2 Double figures-of-eight, 2s casting and 1s crossing to begin" whereas the original says "The 1. Cu. being in the 2.Cu. place, go the figure thro' till the 1. Cu. comes into the 2. Cu. Place". My own interpretation would differ from this. I would either have the 1st couple only doing a whole figure of eight up through the 2nd couple or would have the 1st couple only doing a half figure of eight up through the second couple. The first of these alternatives has the disadvantage that it requires the dancers to cover twice the distance they cover to the same amount of music in the A parts. This is physically possible as the tune is in 3/2 but I am unsure that it is philosophically correct to have huge changes of dance speed within a dance. The second alternative leaves the first couple improper but this is of no consequence to the dance. Michael Barraclough http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:02:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:02:12 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Figuring Anna Maria To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031110170212.40506.qmail-AT-web20606.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT With all respect to Mr. Barraclough, I hold my ground. The interpretation I offer is what van Cleef suggests and Fried (and many others, including me) have taught since. Yes, we all add the 2s' casting and figuring--but if you don't, and the 1s are doing a whole figure, their track is even harder--now they're figuring around inert bodies, rather than through space. An ornament, strictly speaking--but we are talking about 1695 here, and these dances are full of twirls and loops that are not necessary to the 1s' movements or to the progression (Trip to the Jubilee; Up with Aily [to either tune!]). If I may make an analogy to contemporary music, Corelli without ornaments is still Corelli, but perhaps missing something; Couperin without ornaments is actually incorrect--he has a tutorial of several pages on how to execute his ornaments. Nor can I imagine half-figuring and leaving the 1s improper every other round--how is that of no consequence? I think even in 1695 the dancers would have found that anomalous and problematic. There are rare instances of dances where the 1s begin and end each round improper (King of Poland; Bartlett House in Bray, &c.)--but I can't think of any that deposit them improper every *other* round. But my knowledge here may be incomplete. Nor do I find the change of speed unlikely--an easy parallel example occurs in Childgrove, where neighbors turn once and a half (4 bars) and then partners turn once (4 bars). Plus, Baroque style is all about sudden and even startling contrasts (Bernini, Vivaldi). I think Mr. Barraclough and I may have to agree to disagree here. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:34:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:30:38 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Anna Maria: Help is on the way, &c. &c. &c. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L2V3NMACQK990RKG-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Graham wrote: > I wholly endorse what both Michael and Sharon have > said: true on all counts. Which reminds me that Frank > van Cleef's work as a reconstructor is too little > known--his *Twenty-Four Country Dances from the > Playford Editions* includes "Alchurch" and > "Well-Hall," as well as "Bump Her Belly" (and it's a > darned shame that the dance doesn't quite live up to > the name, but that's not van Cleef's fault). This "too little known" may have something to do with that book or booklet being out of print for years. (I'd love to be wrong about this so I could buy a copy, but I've checked several times in the last ten years.) I wonder whether some arrangement could possibly be made with the copyright holder to post scans of the book on the Web or otherwise make the content available. > About two years ago, I did a little investigation, and > I think I have a good candidate for the identity of > Anna Maria, but I won't bore the list with it. > Interested parties may write to me privately for the > dirt. Since I'm writing in public for the first part of the response, I'll express my interest in this here and invite you to reply off-list. Thanks, -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:59:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:59:43 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: van Cleef To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031110185943.20351.qmail-AT-web20604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Yes, Alan--I myself bought the last copy (from the Hildebrands, if memory serves). I am not certain who holds copyright on the volume now. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:01:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:00:42 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Anna Maria: Help is on the way, &c. &c. &c. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <00f701c3a7bc$f116cf40$f179550c-AT-paulstam> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01L2V3NMACQK990RKG-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing > About two years ago, I did a little investigation, and > I think I have a good candidate for the identity of > Anna Maria, but I won't bore the list with it. > Interested parties may write to me privately for the > dirt. <> Personally, I'd just as soon see it on-list; I suspect most of us are happily tantalized by the hint. Those who aren't can always hit "delete". Peace, Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:14:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Very well: scurrilous speculation about Anna Maria follows. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031110191425.66203.qmail-AT-web20608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suspect that our Anna Maria was Anna Maria Brudenell (1642-1702), the daughter of the 2nd Earl of Cardigan. She married the 11th Earl of Shrewsbury in 1659. He died in 1668 from wounds received in a duel with her lover, George Villiers, the 2nd Duke of Buckingham. According to rumor, Anna Maria attended the duel dressed as a page, and held Buckingham's horse. She was forced to break off her affair with Buckingham in 1673 after her son's trustees petitioned the House of Lords (whether because she was embarrassing the family name or because she was drawing too heavily on her son's inheritance my source does not specify: more likely the latter). She promptly entered a convent in Paris 1674, returned to England the following year, and by 1677 had married a George Rodney Bridges of Somerset. Anna Maria would have been in her fifties by the time this dance appeared, but her beauty remained proverbial well into the eighteenth century. And of course, we don't know by how long the dance's creation preceded its publication--there's nothing about it that says it couldn't have been a dance of the late 1670s. Anna Maria has always struck me as one of those people it's better to know from a distance--at least arm's length; several miles better. This is too small a nugget to bother publishing, but if you do mention it, give me a tiny credit: "Well, Graham C. thinks..." ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:15:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:06:15 -0500 From: Campbell Kaynor Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: van Cleef To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_vbupshbF1cooiaAo7i/8Zg)" This is a multipart message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_vbupshbF1cooiaAo7i/8Zg) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_6viExoCwcxnqRw88jME3GQ)" --Boundary_(ID_6viExoCwcxnqRw88jME3GQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Doesn't CDIC (Country Dance in Connecticut) still hold the copyright? I'll ask around. I finally sold off all but two copies about 5 years ago and I plan to keep those. Cammy Graham Christian Sent by: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu 10-Nov-2003 01:59 PM Please respond to ECD To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu cc: Subject: van Cleef Yes, Alan--I myself bought the last copy (from the Hildebrands, if memory serves). I am not certain who holds copyright on the volume now. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree --Boundary_(ID_6viExoCwcxnqRw88jME3GQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Doesn't CDIC (Country Dance in Connecticut) still hold the copyright? I'll ask around. I finally sold off all but two copies about 5 years ago and I plan to keep those.
Cammy


Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-yahoo.com>
Sent by: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu

10-Nov-2003 01:59 PM
Please respond to ECD

       
        To:        ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu
        cc:        
        Subject:        van Cleef



Yes, Alan--I myself bought the last copy (from the
Hildebrands, if memory serves). I am not certain who
holds copyright on the volume now.

=====
Graham Christian
"They love dance well that will dance among thorns."

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
--Boundary_(ID_6viExoCwcxnqRw88jME3GQ)-- --Boundary_(ID_vbupshbF1cooiaAo7i/8Zg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:43:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:40:50 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Very well: scurrilous speculation about Anna Maria follows. To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01L2V85W7O2U98BO66-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Graham wrote: > I suspect that our Anna Maria was Anna Maria Brudenell > (1642-1702), the daughter of the 2nd Earl of Cardigan. > She married the 11th Earl of Shrewsbury in 1659. He > died in 1668 from wounds received in a duel with her > lover, George Villiers, the 2nd Duke of Buckingham. > According to rumor, Anna Maria attended the duel > dressed as a page, and held Buckingham's horse. She > was forced to break off her affair with Buckingham in > 1673 after her son's trustees petitioned the House of > Lords (whether because she was embarrassing the family > name or because she was drawing too heavily on her > son's inheritance my source does not specify: more > likely the latter). She promptly entered a convent in > Paris 1674, returned to England the following year, > and by 1677 had married a George Rodney Bridges of > Somerset. > Anna Maria would have been in her fifties by the time > this dance appeared, but her beauty remained > proverbial well into the eighteenth century. And of > course, we don't know by how long the dance's creation > preceded its publication--there's nothing about it > that says it couldn't have been a dance of the late > 1670s. Anna Maria has always struck me as one of those > people it's better to know from a distance--at least > arm's length; several miles better. > This is too small a nugget to bother publishing, but > if you do mention it, give me a tiny credit: "Well, > Graham C. thinks..." Actually, this looks like a great size of nugget for the CDSS News, which does have several pages of good shortish bits. (But my editorial judgment has nothing to do with CDSS's editorial judgment, so my saying that may mean nothing.) I like this kind of stuff and think it enriches the ECD experience, so I'd encourage you to put this sort of nugget on the list. -- Alan -- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:50:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:45:54 +0000 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Figuring Anna Maria To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002c01c3a7dc$66708640$0500a8c0-AT-ntworld.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Graham Christian makes some interesting comments on my suggestions for other interpretations of the original dance description of Anna Maria. I should have made clear that my offerings were solely for those who might be interested in authentic performance. I have no problem with modern interpretations, however far they may be from the likely original, if they are for modern consumption in a modern context (eg ECD, English folk dance clubs etc). However, if the intention is to perform these dances for an audience where the audience is expecting "authenticity" then I believe that we have a duty of care to be as reasonably authentic as we can. It is on this basis that I rule out the possibility that both couples are active in the B2 part of the dance (since the direction is solely for the 1st couple). Given that only one couple is to be active then we appear to have two choices, both of which present some difficulties. Graham makes some interesting challenges, my responses on which are as follows. I am not sure that the analogy with ornaments in music is valid. We are talking about dance figures here. A whole figure of eight is not an ornament of 1/2 a figure of eight - it is a different figure. In the same vein, a double figure of eight is not an ornamented single figure of eight it is a different figure. To take an analogy from contra dance - lines forward and back is not the same as dosido but spinning round in a dosido is an ornamented dosido. With regard to changes of speed, I defer to my mentor, the late Belinda Quirey. We discussed this concept on several occasions and she was quite firm in her view that (in baroque dance) changes of speed in performance were unlikely, except where the tune itself changed speed (eg Graies Inn Masque). Changes in speed of footwork (more divisions in the footwork) are definitely acceptable, but not significant changes of speed over the ground. The only changes of speed that I personally am happy with are where the dancers slow down in response to faster music. In Anna Maria this does not apply as it is the same music so I cannot see why the dancers should change speed. I am also at a loss to understand why the dancers should change step in B2 (skip change is suggested) compared to B1 which is the same music. Another reason to be concerned about requiring a change of speed relates to the clothing worn then. This was much heavier than now and even when modern dancers dress "authentically" this is often for theatrical effect and the clothes are not constructed authentically or use materials of appropriate weight. Sudden changes in direction or in speed when authentic clothing is worn will result in clothing doing one thing whilst the dancers do something else - I cannot believe that this would have been acceptable. The choreography also gives us another clue that change of speed was unlikely. The 'fast' B2, executed by the 1st couple is immediately followed by the 'slow' A1, executed by the 1st couple. There is, therefore, no opportunity for the clothing to come to equilibrium between the movements since the leading movement in A1 follows directly from the figuring movement (however one does it) in B2. I agree that leaving the 1st couple improper every other round may be anomalous although I recollect that I have seen other dances that could be interpreted in this way. I am not sure, however, why it is problematic. If one inspects the choreography, the only thing that the 1st couple does with the 2nd couple is circle half way round. Since there are many examples of circles where one couple is improper vis-ŕ-vis the other (as well as where the same sexes are together) it clearly was of no consequence to the dancers as to who they held hands with in the circle. In reconstructing it the way he has, Frank van Cleef has provided an interesting dance for modern dancers. In the introduction to his book 'Twenty Four Country Dances from the Playford Editions' (1979) Frank states "The original directions are presented here so that the interested observer may note how the modern version varies from the original shorthand. I have tried to keep the movements of the active couple as close to the original directions, making changes only to clarify the text, fit the music, or increase the activity for inactive couples. ... These are not "historical" dances to be performed in the costume and style of the 17th century. These are modern dances to be enjoyed in modern dress, at modern tempos, with modern, unaffected footwork. .. They are for the pleasure of modern dancers, not the scrutiny of dance historians. They should be judged, not on whether they contain anachronisms or depart from the original, but rather than whether they give pleasure and artistic satisfaction to modern dancers." His comments are excellent and apply equally well to his interpretation of Anna Maria. An Anna Maria with walked A1/A2/B1 and skipped double figure in B2 is just fine for the dance club. To me it would be as unacceptable as using an accordion or piano in an authentic performance of seventeenth century country dances. Michael Barraclough http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu] On Behalf Of Graham Christian Sent: 10 November 2003 17:02 To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Figuring Anna Maria With all respect to Mr. Barraclough, I hold my ground. The interpretation I offer is what van Cleef suggests and Fried (and many others, including me) have taught since. Yes, we all add the 2s' casting and figuring--but if you don't, and the 1s are doing a whole figure, their track is even harder--now they're figuring around inert bodies, rather than through space. An ornament, strictly speaking--but we are talking about 1695 here, and these dances are full of twirls and loops that are not necessary to the 1s' movements or to the progression (Trip to the Jubilee; Up with Aily [to either tune!]). If I may make an analogy to contemporary music, Corelli without ornaments is still Corelli, but perhaps missing something; Couperin without ornaments is actually incorrect--he has a tutorial of several pages on how to execute his ornaments. Nor can I imagine half-figuring and leaving the 1s improper every other round--how is that of no consequence? I think even in 1695 the dancers would have found that anomalous and problematic. There are rare instances of dances where the 1s begin and end each round improper (King of Poland; Bartlett House in Bray, &c.)--but I can't think of any that deposit them improper every *other* round. But my knowledge here may be incomplete. Nor do I find the change of speed unlikely--an easy parallel example occurs in Childgrove, where neighbors turn once and a half (4 bars) and then partners turn once (4 bars). Plus, Baroque style is all about sudden and even startling contrasts (Bernini, Vivaldi). I think Mr. Barraclough and I may have to agree to disagree here. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:04:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Figuring Anna Maria, again... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031111040446.77260.qmail-AT-web20608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am not entirely unacquainted with historical dance practice, and I respectfully disagree with Mr. Barraclough on all points. His perceptions (and his mentor's) about speed changes do not match my knowledge and observation of Baroque dance as I have seen it interpreted recently. Nor do I agree that silence with regard to the 2s is equivalent to stillness--it would be possible to infer from some sources--admittedly, all frustratingly non-specific--that the 2s (3s, 4s!) might well be moving in a frolic of their own, as long as they did not actively *interfere* with the 1s' track (see Tomlinson). Nor do I agree with his assertion about the nonparallelism of ornament in differing arts. Nor do I agree that the 1s end improper every other round: I truly know of *no* precedent in the Playford and contemporary sources that indicate such a progression in a longways dance (the early sets are admittedly a wholly different matter). Even a dance like "King of Poland" indicates that the 1s *begin* improper, and there is every indication that they end so. I know of no dance where it says, "At the end of the second Strain, the 1. man is Improper" or anything of the kind. Nor do I even agree with his perception about contemporary clothing. In the absence of recordings or metronome markings from the period, it is as likely that dancers anchored their clothing well, and then "devil take the hindmost. In the case of theatrical professionals, their costumery, even when they were portraying contemporary persons, was modified to enable their movement (slightly shorter skirts, for one example). I seem to recall that there was discussion either on this list or elsewhere on the Net, about speed in historical dance, and my recollection is that Wilson, in the 1810s, indicates something like 120 or so beats per minute on the half-measure (for a 6/8 jig rhythm) as a good tempo for a country dance--that's a pretty good clip. Was this a faster tempo than 1695? or 1750? We cannot know: but even in 1810, you still have hair-falls and watch-fobs and tight shoes to worry about. As I have said, I think Mr. Barraclough and I will simply have to agree to disagree here. ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:05:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 21:04:45 -0700 From: Vickie Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT One of our group recently received the following from one of our novice dancers who went away to college and wanted to continue with ECD. Names have been omitted for obvious reasons. Food for thought, Ed ************************** "I want to come and give you the biggest hug right now!  Just to let you know how much I appreciate you.  ... and I and 2 friends went to the ball with ... on saturday and ... was running it.  We couldn't go to the practices because ... has a nursing newborn and the first dance we went out there to try it and we became the group that was picked on, pushed (literally, when I was out of place) and I felt like I was going to get my head cut off at any moment.  Later in the evening we did trip to paris and well hall because those were the only 2 I knew.  It was fun to dress up but the ball itself was such a negative experience.  So I just wanted to thank you for always being so welcoming and great.  I haven't been to the group since I came back from ... but I will soon ...  How thankful I am to be a part of the Riverside bunch!  I appreciate all of you!" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:37:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 05:37:03 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20031111133703.70707.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Of course, it's impossible to draw conclusions from only one side of the story, but let me ask question: Was it a called ball or were all the dancers expected to know all the dances? By ...'s own admission, ... only knew two of the dances. Not to excuse boarish behavior, but if two novices went in the wrong directions in a non-called dance that everyone else knew -- and all attendees were *expected* to know -- someone might guide/push them in the right direction. Was it just one person, one incident? Or was it a consistant problem, pinballing the novices like an ECD version of 'A Night at the Roxbury'? Anyway, I'd sure like to know where and when this happened so we could possibly hear from any other attendees for either corroborating or conflicting viewpoints. It really isn't fair to condemn an unknown and unidentified ball and, in fact, it puts all of them into suspicion. Also, how are attendees/organizers to know of problems in civility or maybe just miscommunication if they don't hear about them? --- Vickie wrote: > One of our group recently received the following > from one of our novice > dancers who went away to college and wanted to > continue with ECD. > > Names have been omitted for obvious reasons. > > Food for thought, > Ed > ************************** > "I want to come and give you the biggest hug right > now!  Just to let you > know how much I appreciate you.  ... and I and 2 > friends went to the ball > with ... on saturday and ... was running it.  We > couldn't go to the > practices because ... has a nursing newborn and the > first dance we went out > there to try it and we became the group that was > picked on, pushed > (literally, when I was out of place) and I felt like > I was going to get my > head cut off at any moment.  Later in the evening we > did trip to paris and > well hall because those were the only 2 I knew.  It > was fun to dress up but > the ball itself was such a negative experience.  So > I just wanted to thank > you for always being so welcoming and great.  I > haven't been to the group > since I came back from ... but I will soon ...  How > thankful I am to be a > part of the Riverside bunch!  I appreciate all of > you!" > ===== Tom Vincent I looked up the definition of 'liberal' in a Random House dictionary. It gave the synonyms for 'liberal' as 'progressive', 'broad-minded', 'unprejudiced', 'beneficent'. The antonyms it offered: 'reactionary' and 'intolerant'. -- Walter Cronkite www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 06:25:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:23:36 -0500 From: Deb Karl Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3FB0F0E8.FBE1F9B0-AT-wi.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031111133703.70707.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com> Tom Vincent wrote: > > Not to excuse boarish behavior assume Tom means "boorish" behavior, but the mental picture of havoc caused by two wild boars making their way a longways set does call to mind what can happen when beginners (new or perpetual) are dancing.... --Deb ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 06:50:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:49:39 -0500 (EST) From: Russiababy-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <74.3521b9f4.2ce25103-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_qMOxYgmfD4ScwQmvcR2jow)" --Boundary_(ID_qMOxYgmfD4ScwQmvcR2jow) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 11/11/2003 8:45:47 AM Central Standard Time, debkarl-AT-WI.MIT.EDU writes: Tom Vincent wrote: > > Not to excuse boarish behavior assume Tom means "boorish" behavior, but the mental picture of havoc caused by two wild boars making their way a longways set does call to mind what can happen when beginners (new or perpetual) are dancing.... It was a lovely mistake, visually speaking. I laughed when I read it, too. --Boundary_(ID_qMOxYgmfD4ScwQmvcR2jow) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
In a message dated 11/11/2003 8:45:47 AM Central Standard Time, debkarl-AT-WI.MIT.EDU writes:
Tom Vincent wrote:
>
> Not to excuse boarish behavior

assume Tom means "boorish" behavior, but the mental picture of havoc
caused by two wild boars making their way a longways set does call to
mind what can happen when beginners (new or perpetual) are dancing....
It was a lovely mistake, visually speaking.  I laughed when I read it, too.
--Boundary_(ID_qMOxYgmfD4ScwQmvcR2jow)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:01:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:01:24 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20031111150124.76190.qmail-AT-web12205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ack! And I thought I caught that!! I know I've been accused of being a ham, but this is ridiculous! --- Deb Karl wrote: > > Tom Vincent wrote: > > > > Not to excuse boarish behavior > > assume Tom means "boorish" behavior, but the mental > picture of havoc > caused by two wild boars making their way a longways > set does call to > mind what can happen when beginners (new or > perpetual) are dancing.... > > --Deb ===== Tom Vincent I looked up the definition of 'liberal' in a Random House dictionary. It gave the synonyms for 'liberal' as 'progressive', 'broad-minded', 'unprejudiced', 'beneficent'. The antonyms it offered: 'reactionary' and 'intolerant'. -- Walter Cronkite www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:22:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:18:40 -0500 From: franch-AT-juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031111.101842.-437235.2.franch-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Civility to novices is very important. It is also important to remember that civility to novices is just a subset of civility to everyone. As an experienced dancer who sometimes becomes befuddled and welcomes help, I can tell you that the manner in which it is given makes all the difference. Mike Franch ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:37:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:35:09 -0500 From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: civility to novices To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:04 PM, Vickie wrote: > One of our group recently received the following from one of our novice > dancers who went away to college and wanted to continue with ECD. > > Names have been omitted for obvious reasons. > > Food for thought, > Ed > This is clearly an unfortunate situation. It underlines the importance of being clear on the expectations of the dancers at the Ball. These expectations should be stated on the flyer, and on the letter of acceptance sent out by the registrar. It is also good to have practice sessions at a variety of times so that everybody within an hour's drive can make at least one of them. Novices should use the practice sessions to test the waters. In the past, we have had people from out of town come to our afternoon practice, and just realize that they didn't know the dances well enough to do the evening program. That said, from time to time you might still get a situation like the one described in Ed's letter. I like the idea of a group of local dance angels, who are used to working with beginners and with each other, stepping in and dividing up the responsibility of hosting our hapless guests. Everybody at the Ball is a guest of the whole community. The issue of giving guidance to lost dancers is not easy. I think people mean well, and they want to help, but if they are using most of their RAM on keeping to the pattern, then are suddenly surprised by a beginner taking a wrong turn, they are likely to grab at somebody. I think leaders can help if they see this going on, by trying to understand why people are doing it, and going over the causes they can see with the dancers, so as a community we work on other approaches. The worst cases are usually two inexperienced dancers dancing together; leaders should be willing to break pairs like this up. This, of course, is another place where a group of dance angels is a big help. Best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:48:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:44:45 -0500 From: Daniel Pentlarge Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Not wishing to bore anyone... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Not being myself really a model of orthography, and having missed the spelling error until it was highlighted, I went direct to the question of civility or incivility to newcomers. In what circumstance is it permissible to lay hands on another person? I suppose when life or limb are endangered. Otherwise? Intimates, perhaps. Others? I can't see it. Competent dancers should be able to indicate direction with gesture or expression. Words should not even be necessary. I cannot see how anyone who lays hands on a stranger in a social dance (other than as *required* by the figures of the dance) could be considered anything but a boor (unless it would be a boar.) We, who know so much, sometimes mistake ignorance for discourtesy. It is not. A newcomer who somehow stumbles into a ball at which all dancers are expected to know all the dances is not at fault for so doing, rather it may be the fault of the person who invited them, or who designed or wrote the flyer and failed to use language clear to the uninitiated. Such a newcomer may be welcomed graciously, have their finery admired, introduced to expert dancers who may be able to smooth their way, may coached on the sidelines, may be guided to attempt one or two of the simpler dances from the evening's offering. Conceivably, in a *very* gracious and hospitable group, the program might be altered to include *calling* a few dances and even some instruction. It might even be felt to be a discourtesy for a really gracious group *not* to do so little as that. Here in New England we mark side street with street signs, but almost never mark the main streets, because, after all, if you don't know where you are, you probably shouldn't be there, should you? I often feel that some of our dances here in New England have a similar attitude. If you don't already know all our dances, and the way we do them here (heaven forefend someone should have learned a *variant* -i.e., incorrect- version of a dance in some less enlightened region), then you should regard yourself as a rank beginner, go only to beginner dances, and *expect* that people will shove you around on the dance floor. I am disappointed to gather that across the list we have no dances where courtesy and hospitality and graciousness are the hallmarks and that none of our dances are above suspicion when discourtesy is alleged. I think that if we work on that, newcomers will less often be repelled by our bad behavior, will more often be drawn to our groups, and English Country Dancing shall not perish from the earth. If we don't work on that, I have grave fears. Yours from the banks of the Charles, Daniel ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:23:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:15:20 -0500 From: Campbell Kaynor Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Not wishing to bore anyone... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Daniel, I bore this as long as I could until I just had to add my 2 cents: 1) As boorish as it may seem, I have managed to help quite a number of dancers to grasp a figure (e.g., circular hey) by standing behind them with my hands on their shoulders, steering them through the figure once or twice until they get the hang of it. This is done of course after exhausting alternative means (words, gestures, etc.... and of course I let them know what I intend and gaining some sort of acquiescence in the maneuver). So I believe that it is possible to be courteous, gracious, and physically helpful all at once. 2) I have always felt that the joy of including any newcomer who should happen to drop in, is of more value than the joy of clinging to some ideal of what my event should be. The appearance of novices at the more exclusive events such as the balls is not a rare accident. It is almost predictable that one or several will be there as guests of avid dancers, as chance passersby, or ignorant enough not grasp the nature of the event from the language in the publicity. And just think of it - what better introduction to some of the joys of ECD than a Ball! I am always prepared to alter the program to accommodate such people and the list of likely prospects contains enough dances of various technical challenge that it is not hard to accommodate and stay within the publicized repertoire. 3) I feel that today's dancers are being subjected to a larger accumulated repertoire of dances than was the case at any moment in time historically. Feeling thus, I consider it a little unfair to expect today's dancers to remember the figures and stylistic nuances (especially for those of us of little brain). Therefore I teach all the dances even at my balls. In other words, I take issue with your rather blanket assertion that "...across the list we have no dances where courtesy and hospitality and graciousness are the hallmarks." But I agree "...that none of our dances are above suspicion when discourtesy is alleged." None of our dances should be above suspicion. Neither I nor anyone I know is 100% courteous 100% of the time even when we mean to be. It is by being self-critical that we can at least feel the situation is improving! I teach the dances, I welcome the newcomers, I even invite sit-ins to join the band. So perhaps my balls are not balls in the sense that others' are and for this reason I label them Playford Parties to distinguish them from the "balls" that others run. And how is it different from a regular ECD? Partly the people who are no longer dancing on a regular basis who come out of the woodwork for these parties, partly the festive and period dress, partly the fact that the vast majority are familiar with the dances so the dancing quality and flow are a notch higher than the regular events, and partly that the musicians have had a list of tunes to rehearse for many weeks in advance so they can focus even more of their attention on the dancing while they play. Somehow it all comes out feeling like a ball in the end but I avoid the term because of the stereotype that has evolved at other dances. The word "ball" itself is enough to turn away some dancers. Cammy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 12:56:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 15:56:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Not wishing to bore anyone... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Daniel Pentlarge wrote in part): > In what circumstance is it permissible to lay hands on another person? Never under social circumstances -- unless of course you are dancing with that person and thelaying of hands is part of the dance. But for a teacher to shove a dancer around in a social situaltion, I repeat, never. In a class? Only if the student asks for it. Musch better to tell the student to follow yo than to push them through the path. They'll be so busy being embarassed that they won't learn -- or so mad at you that they won't return. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (Priscilla.Burrage-AT-uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:59:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 16:57:47 -0500 From: Terence Gaffney Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Not wishing to bore anyone... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <15BF5BE2-1492-11D8-9DA3-000393B84248-AT-research.neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Good people behave badly for a reason. Unless you understand the reason, saying "no!" won't get you what you want. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 16:24:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 19:24:39 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Not wishing to bore anyone... To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01e001c3a97c$8772ea80$6ec35244-AT-Hawk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: I have to supply an extremely fresh counter-example. At a dance very recently, there were two extremely dim bulbs in our set and they just never got the moves to the dance, standing like deer caught in headlights. One wonderfully ascertive, experienced woman grabbed them by the shoulders and ascertively steered them in the right directions. (I use the word 'ascertive' repeatedly with deliberation, though an observer of the incident may have described it as 'aggressive') I think the two 'dancers' (and I use the term loosely!) actually appreciated it. I certainly got more than a little chuckle out of it, I must admit. Was the woman helpful? Yes. Was she exasperated? Yes. Cruel? Maybe...but don't the 'dancers' have a bit of a responsibility to learn their own limits and avoid ruining the dance for the other people? Bow out when they realize that the steps are just beyond them? I don't know...I certainly don't mind giving some additional attention to those in need: We've all been there at one time or another. One of them has been participating in the dances on and off for at least a year and is a train-wreck in all but the most simple dances. He certainly enjoys the dances he can handle, but quickly turns into a bumbling handicap far too often. At what point does one take the dance-inept aside and simply point out the obvious? I've had to deal with drunk newbies who think tossin' back a few will make the moves come easily, gym-rats who gorilla women into unexpected moves leading to strained wrists and a grossly obese man who sweated profusely to the point of causing severe cringing -- if not nausea -- in the women cursed with having to balance-and-swing him (think dancing with a 400-lb slug). As President of the dance organization and one of the primary callers, I was 'blessed' with the task of explaining the importance of personal hygiene to him. Not fun. So, pushing a newbie around? No, clearly. Pushing a relatively seasoned 'dancer' who doesn't know his own level of incompetency? Maybe not so clear. Tom Vincent ----- Original Message ----- From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:56 PM Subject: Re: Not wishing to bore anyone... > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Daniel Pentlarge wrote in part): > > > In what circumstance is it permissible to lay hands on another person? > > Never under social circumstances -- unless of course you are dancing with > that person and thelaying of hands is part of the dance. > > But for a teacher to shove a dancer around in a social situaltion, I > repeat, never. In a class? Only if the student asks for it. Musch > better to tell the student to follow yo than to push them through the > path. They'll be so busy being embarassed that they won't learn -- or so > mad at you that they won't return. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Priscilla Burrage Vermont US > (Priscilla.Burrage-AT-uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:47:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:47:37 -0500 From: Daniel Pentlarge Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Tom, You raise so many issues! >One wonderfully ascertive, experienced woman grabbed them by the shoulders and ascertively steered them in the right directions. (I use the word 'ascertive' repeatedly with deliberation, though an observer of the incident may have described it as 'aggressive') Not really wishing either to revisit the issue of orthography (which Graham has had occasion to reprove me on this very morning), or to appear acerbic, I still feel the need to assert that even in the case of experienced but inept dancers who cannot discern which dances they're capable of assaying (which is really a lot to expect of someone who has only been dancing for a year), the laying on of hands should be reserved for healing ministries, not steering dancers. Gestures, skillfully wielded, must suffice, although not perhaps to assuage the frustration of obstructed dancers. >I think the two 'dancers' (and I use the term loosely!) actually appreciated it. The gracious or even grateful response of others does not excuse our rudeness, alas. >but don't the 'dancers' have a bit of a responsibility to learn their own limits and avoid ruining the dance for the other people? Bow out when they realize that the steps are just beyond them? It's very difficult to know in advance whether the dance just announced is going to be too difficult, unless the caller describes it as "advanced," or some such. Even walking through may not make that clear to the uninitiated, the inexperienced or the clueless. Once the dance has begun, at what point does one bow out? I don't believe I've ever received instruction on that point. >At what point does one take the dance-inept aside and simply point out the obvious? I completely sympathize with the question, but I think the answer remains "never." Nothing justifies a lack of kindness, and there doesn't seem to me to be a way to do what you suggest kindly. Yours in shared frustration, Daniel ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:42:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:42:08 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031113174208.83540.qmail-AT-web41508.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Daniel Pentlarge wrote: > Dear Tom, > You raise so many issues! > >One wonderfully ascertive, experienced woman grabbed > them by the shoulders > and ascertively steered them in the right directions. (I > use the word > 'ascertive' repeatedly with deliberation, though an > observer of the incident > may have described it as 'aggressive') > > Not really wishing either to revisit the issue of > orthography (which > Graham has had occasion to reprove me on this very > morning), or to appear > acerbic, I still feel the need to assert that even in the > case of > experienced but inept dancers who cannot discern which > dances they're > capable of assaying (which is really a lot to expect of > someone who has only > been dancing for a year), the laying on of hands should > be reserved for > healing ministries, not steering dancers. Gestures, > skillfully wielded, > must suffice, although not perhaps to assuage the > frustration of obstructed > dancers. > > >I think the two 'dancers' (and I use the term loosely!) > actually > appreciated > it. > > The gracious or even grateful response of others does > not excuse our > rudeness, alas. > > >but don't the 'dancers' have a bit of a responsibility > to learn > their own limits and avoid ruining the dance for the > other people? Bow out > when they realize that the steps are just beyond them? > > It's very difficult to know in advance whether the > dance just announced > is going to be too difficult, unless the caller describes > it as "advanced," > or some such. Even walking through may not make that > clear to the > uninitiated, the inexperienced or the clueless. Once the > dance has begun, > at what point does one bow out? I don't believe I've > ever received > instruction on that point. > > >At what point does one take the dance-inept aside and > simply point out the > obvious? > > I completely sympathize with the question, but I think > the answer remains > "never." Nothing justifies a lack of kindness, and there > doesn't seem to me > to be a way to do what you suggest kindly. > Yours in shared frustration, > Daniel This brings up another interesting question. I am now 81 years old and having some physical problems which interfere with my ability to do some of the dances. I am familiar with most of the dances and know which ones I can do and which I should stay away from but callers rarely tell us what dance they are going to do until after we are on the floor. I find it most embarassing to have to apologize to my partner and leave the floor after getting up in a set. TO ALL CALLERS-PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT DANCE IS NEXT BEFORE WE GET ON THE FLOOR, RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL AFTER WE ARE IN PLACE. It would be most helpful both to new dancers and experienced ones with physical problems and polite to both our partners and other fellow dancers. Ben Stein > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 09:43:02 -0800 (PST) From: Graham Christian Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031113174302.74782.qmail-AT-web20603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As much as I dislike to disagree with so dear a friend as Daniel, I think there are no easy answers here. I would have said that my principle was--nay, my principal principle--not to touch (except where the figures indicate, as in hand-turns). But I've broken that rule myself, in the following way. I was teaching a more-or-less beginning level dance, and trying to guide a wholly new dancer through (as I recall) a half-figure-8. She just wasn't seeing it from the demonstration. I asked her if I could put my hands on her to guide her, and I put my hands on her shoulders and we walked together through the half-figure--she giggled, the room giggled. And she grasped it, and had no trouble with the figure for the remainder of the evening. However. I was the leader/teacher/caller--*and* I asked her permission before I touched her. And I had a pretty good sense that she'd say yes, and not be perturbed. I would never want to give the *dancers* (including myself, when I'm not leading) blanket permission to guide others in this way. So, generally, yes--absolutely no touching or pushing. In hindsight, I might have asked *her* to put her hands on *my* shoulders--that might have been more appropriate, and not intrusive. The other questions once again address the issue of the needs of the individual versus those of the community--something callers often talk about amongst themselves. Of course one ought to be welcoming and inclusive--both as a matter of principle and for the health of the community. If an event has been billed clearly as Advanced or Experienced, it's quite unfair to the community to permit one or two beginners (actual or perpetual) to throw over an entire program of dances. This does not excuse rudeness (or even touching), but I don't see why an organizer couldn't say to such a dancer (at the break, say), "I don't know if you are aware that this is a Ball, and these dancers have spent weeks learning these dances...Such-and-So after the break is an easier dance. Maybe you'd like to watch until that comes up, and then join us for that." I don't find this rude, if deftly done: it's a courtesy that may spare a dancer further embarrassment (or the wrath of fellow dancers, if they're not susceptible to embarrassment). ===== Graham Christian "They love dance well that will dance among thorns." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:14:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:14:12 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <002701c3aa11$f17d6a00$da8d4a0c-AT-paulstam> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031113174302.74782.qmail-AT-web20603.mail.yahoo.com> At our local dance we've developed a culture where new folks are, if needed, aided through a complex maneuver by a couple of women (both callers) who act as "pilot fish". They always ask permission, and normally only do this during the walkthroughs, although once in a blue moon they do it during an actual dance. Two things are critical: the asking, and the fact that these are women doing the piloting, which obviates skittishness among new female dancers about being touched. It's worked out well, and no one has ever objected. Indeed, they usually take it as something of a game, part of our attempt to be welcoming to beginners. But the permission is absolutely crucial. On the side topic, Ben's right about announcing dances. "Take partners for _____" is the way we call folks onto the floor. Peace, Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:07:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20031113190737.96799.qmail-AT-web12205.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Those are all really good points, Dan. And thank you for not raking me over the coals for repeatedly misspelling 'assertive'. :) I think I tend to agree with your position, but I did want to point out some additional facts: 1. The man of the couple is a gentle fellow and certainly not above getting 'directed'. 2. The woman of the couple was someone I don't believe I'd ever seen before. 3. The woman who assertively/aggressively 'directed' (or [wo]manhandled) was someone I vaguely remember seeing before, though not at a recent dance (she is...um...top-heavy and dances with quite a bouncy step, resulting in a somewhat memorable visual image). So, it wasn't a well-known woman 'directing' a well-known couple, though for all I know, the 'directing' woman may be close with one or both of the 'directed' couple. If it had been a daughter shoving/dragging/directing her father around, would it be any better? I guess. With less familiarity, I would certainly agree it was a bold move, to say the least. (I must add parenthetically that I take great amusement at your limiting the 'laying of hands' to a useless setting while prohibiting it from one which would most certainly be effective. ;> ) As for bowing out, my thought was that folks would do so during the walk-through rather than once the dance started. Not the easiest thing to do, but humility never is. Take it from me. I tried it once. :) Tom (who would *never* really take someone aside and tell them they are too stupid to do a dance) --- Daniel Pentlarge wrote: > Dear Tom, > You raise so many issues! > >One wonderfully ascertive, experienced woman > grabbed them by the shoulders > and ascertively steered them in the right > directions. (I use the word > 'ascertive' repeatedly with deliberation, though an > observer of the incident > may have described it as 'aggressive') > > Not really wishing either to revisit the issue of > orthography (which > Graham has had occasion to reprove me on this very > morning), or to appear > acerbic, I still feel the need to assert that even > in the case of > experienced but inept dancers who cannot discern > which dances they're > capable of assaying (which is really a lot to expect > of someone who has only > been dancing for a year), the laying on of hands > should be reserved for > healing ministries, not steering dancers. Gestures, > skillfully wielded, > must suffice, although not perhaps to assuage the > frustration of obstructed > dancers. > > >I think the two 'dancers' (and I use the term > loosely!) actually > appreciated > it. > > The gracious or even grateful response of others > does not excuse our > rudeness, alas. > > >but don't the 'dancers' have a bit of a > responsibility to learn > their own limits and avoid ruining the dance for the > other people? Bow out > when they realize that the steps are just beyond > them? > > It's very difficult to know in advance whether > the dance just announced > is going to be too difficult, unless the caller > describes it as "advanced," > or some such. Even walking through may not make > that clear to the > uninitiated, the inexperienced or the clueless. > Once the dance has begun, > at what point does one bow out? I don't believe > I've ever received > instruction on that point. > > >At what point does one take the dance-inept aside > and simply point out the > obvious? > > I completely sympathize with the question, but I > think the answer remains > "never." Nothing justifies a lack of kindness, and > there doesn't seem to me > to be a way to do what you suggest kindly. > Yours in shared frustration, > Daniel > ===== Tom Vincent I looked up the definition of 'liberal' in a Random House dictionary. It gave the synonyms for 'liberal' as 'progressive', 'broad-minded', 'unprejudiced', 'beneficent'. The antonyms it offered: 'reactionary' and 'intolerant'. -- Walter Cronkite www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:05:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:05:26 -0500 From: Daniel Pentlarge Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: O ye of little faith To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Tom, I am grateful that this discussion is going as it is; I hoped it would. I can't help responding to a couple of points (no effective self-control with a keyboard, apparently.) >The woman who assertively/aggressively 'directed' (or [wo]manhandled) was someone I vaguely remember seeing before, though not at a recent dance (she is...um...top-heavy and dances with quite a bouncy step, resulting in a somewhat memorable visual image). I sure hope she's not on this list; between the actions and the physique described she'd be hard pressed not to recognize herself. >(I must add parenthetically that I take great amusement at your limiting the 'laying of hands' to a useless setting while prohibiting it from one which would most certainly be effective. ;> ) Several people have complained rather bitterly to me that the laying on of hands in a dance setting - particularly when it happened unexpectedly and/or without their explicit permission - had actually caused them to freeze up, and had actually reduced their ability in that moment to grasp what was or ought to be going on. (I can't actually testify of my own experience of its efficacy in "healing ministry.") >Tom (who would *never* really take someone aside and tell them they are too stupid to do a dance) Unlike the Baptists, or at least former President Carter, I do not hold that adultery in one's heart is as bad as the actuality (or as good, if it comes to that), so I would never fault you for *wanting* to tell them. Sometimes I want to smack them, but I try to keep my hands to myself. Yours in faith and hope, Daniel ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:52:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Andy Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031113205140.76088.qmail-AT-web20007.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Benjamin Stein wrote: > This brings up another interesting question. I am now 81 > years old and having some physical problems which interfere > with my ability to do some of the dances. I am familiar > with most of the dances and know which ones I can do and > which I should stay away from but callers rarely tell us > what dance they are going to do until after we are on the > floor. I find it most embarassing to have to apologize to > my partner and leave the floor after getting up in a set. > TO ALL CALLERS-PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT DANCE IS NEXT BEFORE > WE GET ON THE FLOOR, RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL AFTER WE ARE > IN PLACE. It would be most helpful both to new dancers and > experienced ones with physical problems and polite to both > our partners and other fellow dancers. It also helps to announce it more than once, because some of us have trouble seperating words from the ambient noise and might not hear it the first time. Maybe it would even be good to announce, "After this, the next dance will be...," during a moment of relative quiet anticipation before starting the preceeding dance. Or write the next dance _clearly_ on an easel ahead of time (preferably with a non-toxic pen). Andy in Portland __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:34:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:10:43 -0500 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031113.163303.-78191.20.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As another observation, I've found when teaching children, especially really little ones, that a degree of physical contact is necessary. I just taught some longsword to 5th graders and in each set there's at least one child who doesn't know R from L. Turning "out" and "in" is also rather confusing to them; it's not an obvious directional command to a child who, while linked to others in a circle, still thinks only of itself as a dancer. I find that a little gentle tugging, or holding a hand or sword works well until they've developed a kinesthetic memory. But then I'm a Mom, and presented to the group as such. I agree with the other observations about the touching of adults, or those pretending to be same. BTW, the longsword was great fun & the kids loved it. The concept of teamwork is foreign to them, but 5th grade (10-11 yrs old for you Brits) is a good age to start to get it. When they finally made the lock we all started screaming with joy. Wicked cool. Allison Thompson On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 12:14:12 -0600 Paul Stamler writes: > At our local dance we've developed a culture where new folks are, if > needed, > aided through a complex maneuver by a couple of women (both callers) > who act > as "pilot fish". They always ask permission, and normally only do > this > during the walkthroughs, although once in a blue moon they do it > during an > actual dance. Two things are critical: the asking, and the fact that > these > are women doing the piloting, which obviates skittishness among new > female > dancers about being touched. It's worked out well, and no one has > ever > objected. Indeed, they usually take it as something of a game, part > of our > attempt to be welcoming to beginners. But the permission is > absolutely > crucial. > > On the side topic, Ben's right about announcing dances. "Take > partners for > _____" is the way we call folks onto the floor. > > Peace, > Paul > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:55:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:55:44 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Vincent Subject: Re: O ye of little faith To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20031113215544.54202.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Daniel Pentlarge wrote: > Dear Tom, > I am grateful that this discussion is going as it > is; I hoped it would. > I can't help responding to a couple of points (no > effective self-control > with a keyboard, apparently.) Likewise! Kindred Spirits, no doubt. ;> > >The woman who assertively/aggressively 'directed' > (or [wo]manhandled) was someone I vaguely remember > seeing before, though not at a recent dance (she > is...um...top-heavy and dances with quite a bouncy > step, resulting in a somewhat memorable visual > image). > > I sure hope she's not on this list; between the > actions and the physique > described she'd be hard pressed not to recognize > herself. Ah, but I don't think she knows me or is on the list and I never said when or where the dance was. I only mentioned the description to give some additional context to the situation, not to assist in identifying her...though I really don't see anything wrong with doing that, mind you: I think people have a right to defend themselves from shadowy descriptions -- which can tar the innocent -- of public events. I make no claims that my description of the events I saw are either complete nor unbiased. I'll *at least* do that! > >(I must add parenthetically that I take great > amusement at your limiting the 'laying of hands' to > a > useless setting while prohibiting it from one which > would most certainly be effective. ;> ) > > Several people have complained rather bitterly to me > that the laying on of > hands in a dance setting - particularly when it > happened unexpectedly and/or > without their explicit permission - had actually > caused them to freeze up, > and had actually reduced their ability in that > moment to grasp what was or > ought to be going on. (I can't actually testify of > my own experience of its > efficacy in "healing ministry.") I don't see how *gently* guiding a dance-bison could be taken offensively. They've just *got* to be aware of how lost they are and what they're doing to the flow of the dance! *All* of us gents are somewhat constantly gently guiding the ladies, though almost certainly with both their consent and expectation ('particularly when it happened unexpectedly and/or without their explicit permission': If they freeze at being touched under any other conditions, I think they're in the wrong hobby!). (I'm taking cruel pleasure in the amusing image of a aphenphosmphobe getting involved in ECD!) > > >Tom > (who would *never* really take someone aside and > tell > them they are too stupid to do a dance) > > Unlike the Baptists, or at least former President > Carter, I do not hold that > adultery in one's heart is as bad as the actuality > (or as good, if it comes > to that), so I would never fault you for *wanting* > to tell them. Sometimes > I want to smack them, but I try to keep my hands to > myself. It certainly not as satisfying. ;> (and yes, I'll leave it up to the reader to decide which previous sentence that was a comment on) Tom (who really is opposed to executing people who mess up a hey) ===== Tom Vincent I looked up the definition of 'liberal' in a Random House dictionary. It gave the synonyms for 'liberal' as 'progressive', 'broad-minded', 'unprejudiced', 'beneficent'. The antonyms it offered: 'reactionary' and 'intolerant'. -- Walter Cronkite www.deanforamerica.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:58:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:58:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Roger W. Broseus" Subject: New Book: The Richmond Assemblies, 1790-1797: Social Dances from 18th-Century Virginia To: ECD Mailing List Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob Keller asked that I forward this info. Cheer, -- Roger W. Broseus +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ I [Bob] want you to know about the latest publication by Kate Van Winkle Keller and George Fogg. "The Richmond Assemblies, 1790-1797: Social Dances from 18th-Century Virginia". The Richmond Assemblies were founded soon after the seat of Virginia's government moved from Williamsburg to Richmond in 1780. The Rules for the Richmond Assemblies for 1790 were published before the season. More rules were added in 1797 and the scribe of these rules folded into them two more pieces of paper with fourteen dances written on them. In this book the Assembly rules are discussed and the 1797 dances have been reconstructed for today's dancers to enjoy. The music comes from two colonial American sources: the manuscript collection of minuets made by John Ormsby, a dancing master active in Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland in the 1750s, and a group of printed English minuet collections from about the same time that belonged to Thomas Jefferson. The book is available from The Colonial Music Institute, at http://www.colonialmusic.org/RA-bk.htm. Publication data: The Richmond Assemblies, 1790-1797 by Kate Van Winkle Keller & George A. Fogg Annapolis, Maryland. The Colonial Music Institute, 2003 24 pages *RA-bk: $6.00 Table of Contents: Corelli's Minuet, Countess of Eglington's Minuet, The Dutchess of Ancaster's Minuet, The Dutchess of Richmond's Minuet, Lord Cathcart's Minuet, A Minuet, A Minuet by Captain Read, A Minuet by S. Philpot, A Minuet by Reverd. Mr. Bacon, Miss Webster's Minuet, and Mrs. Hedges, Her Minuet. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:00:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT help ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:22:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:22:25 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: oops To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Susan R. Lorand wrote: > help sorry, folks, i was trying to sort out a problem with my subscription, and sent my request for a help file to the wrong address. but at least now i know i can post again! - susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:36:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:36:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fresh replies to fresh examples To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 13 Nov 2003, Benjamin Stein wrote: > This brings up another interesting question. I am now 81 > years old and having some physical problems which interfere > with my ability to do some of the dances. I am familiar > with most of the dances and know which ones I can do and > which I should stay away from but callers rarely tell us > what dance they are going to do until after we are on the > floor. I find it most embarassing to have to apologize to > my partner and leave the floor after getting up in a set. > TO ALL CALLERS-PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT DANCE IS NEXT BEFORE > WE GET ON THE FLOOR, RATHER THAN WAITING UNTIL AFTER WE ARE > IN PLACE. It would be most helpful both to new dancers and > experienced ones with physical problems and polite to both > our partners and other fellow dancers. a number of dancers in my communities in the NJ/phila area (myself included) have had temporary or ongoing physical impediments to doing dances with certain figures (e.g. slipping circles or lots of setting) or energy requirements. i've had a lot of success with approaching callers ahead of time (usually before the beginning of the evening) to ask for clues about which dances i would be able to handle & which i would want to sit out. sometimes a caller will make a general announcement that the next dance will be hard for people with knee problems; sometimes i'll go up to the stage in between dances to ask what the next one is. in the places where i dance most often, the callers might *like* to announce the name of a dance before people line up for it - we dancers just don't give them a chance! (but that's another thread...) susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:50:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:50:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: favorite waltzes in Barnes ECD book (was re: Farewell Marian) To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT i'm responding belatedly to a thread about waltzes in the barnes ECD book... On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Jon Berger wrote: > So here's the question: is there anyone else who plays tunes from Barnes > for waltzes, I do, when I haven't planned anything else. > and what are your favorite tunes for this purpose? Besides Farewell Marian (insert alternate name/spelling here), the first ones that come to mind are, in no particular order, Nan's Waltz Golden Anniversary Waltz (tune is called Christine & Ed's) Margaret's Waltz Duke of Kent's Waltz Bare Necessities Draper's Gardens (the Margravine's Waltz) Heidenroeslein (no flames, please) Wood Duck - Susie Lorand Princeton, NJ, USA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 07:28:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:27:55 -0500 From: "Gordon, Judy" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Preannouncing Dances To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ZPXwjVZxvMjYTFkwJOvxSg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ZPXwjVZxvMjYTFkwJOvxSg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Hi. Generally at the New York ECD, we teachers try to prepare our program in advance, so that we can both provide copies to the musicians so they are prepared for what's coming next, and post copies at several spots along the walls so that dancers can check on what's coming next. Sometimes, the preselected dances are subject to change due to time constraints, or a special request, but we usually end up doing what we have planned. Of course, this won't help if someone looking at the list isn't familiar with the dances by name, but they can always ask. Last time I was up at the mike I announced that the next dance was a traditional dance, and that it did not have any ranting, but was fairly energetic. About a third of the room sat down. Yonina Gordon Judy Judy Gordon Managing Editor Securities Information Standard & Poor's 55 Water Street, 34th Floor Tel: (212) 438-7498 Fax: (212) 438-7537 judy_gordon-AT-standardandpoors.com -------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this message is intended only for the recipient, and may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please be aware that any dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you, Standard & Poor's -------------------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_ZPXwjVZxvMjYTFkwJOvxSg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Preannouncing Dances

Hi. Generally at the New York ECD, we teachers try to prepare our program in advance, so that we can both provide copies to the musicians so they are prepared for what's coming next, and post copies at several spots along the walls so that dancers can check on what's coming next. Sometimes, the preselected dances are subject to change due to time constraints, or a special request, but we usually end up doing what we have planned. Of course, this won't help if someone looking at the list isn't familiar with the dances by name, but they can always ask.

Last time I was up at the mike I announced that the next dance was a traditional dance, and that it did not have any ranting, but was fairly energetic. About a third of the room sat down.

Yonina Gordon




Judy
Judy Gordon
Managing Editor
Securities Information
Standard & Poor's
55 Water Street, 34th Floor
Tel: (212) 438-7498
Fax: (212) 438-7537
judy_gordon-AT-standardandpoors.com

The information contained in this message is intended only for the recipient, and may be a confidential attorney-client communication or may otherwise be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, please be aware that any dissemination or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.
Thank you,
Standard & Poor's
--Boundary_(ID_ZPXwjVZxvMjYTFkwJOvxSg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:15:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 13:30:59 -0500 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ben's Letter To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01C3AAA0.77CB3040-AT-ppp0a113.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I must add a loud "amen" to Ben's request that callers identify a dance before we are all lined up. I am 70, but have some real restrictions because of illness, and it's always embarrassing to have to say I must drop out to someone when after we're all lined up, I find it's a rant or something else I cannot manage. As to civility, I think our weekly English dance here in Arlington, MA, has made great strides in working well with new dancers to help them feel comfortable, and that we (mostly) rely on word and gesture to get them through stuff, and do not take errors as huge social gaffes. We may need to work on either word of mouth or wording in flyers to let beginners know that special dances are more difficult, especially our Ball. Mary Stafford ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:40:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:35:22 -0400 From: John Wood Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Royal Albert -- Help please To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000a01c3aade$10fbb9a0$8492e018-AT-johnwood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_yDTFtWXUb7zI+o8jqWzB5w)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_yDTFtWXUb7zI+o8jqWzB5w) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ECD Dancers: Could someone enlighten me as to executing the D part of "Royal Albert" [Community Manual #7]. It is such a long time ago that I last danced it that I cannot remember if it is a 3/4 Hey or a dance round as in "Danish Double Quadrille"? Thanks in advance. Regards, John Bedford, Nova Scotia --Boundary_(ID_yDTFtWXUb7zI+o8jqWzB5w) Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
ECD Dancers:
 
Could someone enlighten me as to executing the D part
of "Royal Albert" [Community Manual #7].
 
It is such a long time ago that I last danced it that I cannot remember if it is a 3/4 Hey or a dance round as in "Danish
Double Quadrille"?
 
Thanks in advance.
 
Regards, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia
--Boundary_(ID_yDTFtWXUb7zI+o8jqWzB5w)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:57:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 20:56:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Royal Albert -- Help please To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200311142056.hAEKurOo023516-AT-mail.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The final part of the Royal Albert is "dance round the other couple 3/4 to change places". The dance step is a pas-de-bas (flattened polka). Michael Barraclough http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk -- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:02:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:02:22 -0800 (PST) From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ben's Letter To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20031114210222.3041.qmail-AT-web41507.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Mary Stafford wrote: > I must add a loud "amen" to Ben's request that callers > identify a dance before we are all lined up. I am 70, > but have some real restrictions because of illness, and > it's always embarrassing to have to say I must drop out > to someone when after we're all lined up, I find it's a > rant or something else I cannot manage. > > As to civility, I think our weekly English dance here in > Arlington, MA, has made great strides in working well > with new dancers to help them feel comfortable, and that > we (mostly) rely on word and gesture to get them through > stuff, and do not take errors as huge social gaffes. We > may need to work on either word of mouth or wording in > flyers to let beginners know that special dances are more > difficult, especially our Ball. > > Mary Stafford Thanks to Mary. Ben Stein __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:53:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:14:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Colin Hume Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Looking for bookings To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <20031117131450.369782-AT-colin-hume> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Next year I'm going to be in the States from Monday June 7th until Saturday July 10th when I'm calling at Buffalo Gap English-American Week. I would welcome some more bookings, either English or Contras and Squares. I'm willing to go anywhere provided somebody provides accommodation, food and enough money to cover my fare. Colin Hume Email colin-AT-colinhume.com Web site http://www.colinhume.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:54:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:45:32 -0800 From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Constantly Gently Guiding To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3FB6825C.9692AC0E-AT-opendoor.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20031113215544.54202.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com> Indeed?! How tiresome for both sexes. I much prefer a more mutual dance experience and for any guidance (which, yes, should always be gentle) to be occasional rather than constant and to come from/be given to as needed in the moment not based on one's sex or role. Brooke Ashland Oregon USA Tom Vincent wrote: > *All* of us gents are somewhat > constantly gently guiding the ladies, though almost > certainly with both their consent and expectation > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:54:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:36:38 -0500 (EST) From: FHdancenet-AT-aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: no subject To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <11e.2783757a.2ce7be26-AT-aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_nNomVahhgOCB6tN5KaL4tQ)" --Boundary_(ID_nNomVahhgOCB6tN5KaL4tQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Do not understand how this mail list works. I like ECD. This is test. --Boundary_(ID_nNomVahhgOCB6tN5KaL4tQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Do not understand how this mail list works. I like ECD. This is test. --Boundary_(ID_nNomVahhgOCB6tN5KaL4tQ)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:54:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 08:22:49 -0400 From: John Wood Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: TESTING TESTING To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: John Wood Message-ID: <002a01c3ac3c$5a099ae0$8492e018-AT-johnwood> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_dMhokiXn/vcP1PbDy86wEg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_dMhokiXn/vcP1PbDy86wEg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT No messages for 3 days -- testing testing --Boundary_(ID_dMhokiXn/vcP1PbDy86wEg) Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
No messages for 3 days -- testing testing
--Boundary_(ID_dMhokiXn/vcP1PbDy86wEg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 09:54:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:56:03 -0700 From: Vickie Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Harvest Ball photos To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For those who enjoy photos of folks enjoying themselves, there are several pages of photos of last night's Harvest Ball in Riverside, CA at: http://englishcountrydancing.org/harvest1.html But a couple of explanatory notes are probably in order. There are several photos that look like a fellow proposing to his sweetie - he was. The fellow passing out blue folders is the President of the local Sons of the American Revolution, giving SAR certificates of appreciation to our dance mistress and band members for keeping 18th century music and