Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:28:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:28:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Musical introductions To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT thanks for the interesting discussion! when i started dancing ECD in new jersey, the local or perhaps regional standard introduction seemed to be one measure - two or three notes (depending on the meter) - from the piano, often outlining a chord (e.g., in the key of D, the intro would be high D, low D in 6/8 or 2/2; or high D, A, low D, in 3/2 etc.). i can't remember how waltz-time dances were introduced - quite possible with 2 to 4 bars of piano vamping. however, when bare necessities came to town, they would play a single long upbeat. both types of intro worked for me as a dancer - i don't recall any confusion. the callers probably helped by giving appropriate cues for the beginning of each dance. sometime in the early to mid-1990s (i think) the local/regional standard intro shifted to two notes from a melody instrument, no matter the meter. (so, in 3/2 or 3/4, the intro would be the last 2/3 of a measure, which took some getting used to). i believe gene murrow had a hand in persuading area musicians to adopt this practice. i continued to play 2- or 4-bar introductions from the end of the tune (or occasionally from the end of the A part) when playing solo for a demo team. when i'm playing in a band, for the few tunes where a 2-beat introduction seems insufficient or confusing, we try to remember to tell the caller what kind of intro we plan to play. the caller will often be less specific in relaying the information to the dancers: if i say it's a 4-bar intro, the caller may just call it a long intro. as a musician i find it easier to get the tempo right with a piece of the tune than with two beats, but i've had enough practice with two-beat intros now to be comfortable with them. i still like the longer melodic intros, though. as a dancer, i can adjust to whatever the band is doing if i know what to expect - and if the intro, of whatever sort, is done confidently and securely. i don't think there is one best way to start all EC dances - there will always be exceptions - but i think having a local or regional standard probably limits confusion. susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:11:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:04:57 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re:Musical introductions To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20030404.000457.-486365.7.gmurrow-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jon asked if I was listening, to which I reply "yes, with great interest!" With a good bit of experience as a dancer, a musician, a caller, and producer of recordings for use by ECD groups, I've found the following to be a completely reliable way of working (there are no doubt other ways): 1) Understand that the musicians in the band are an important part of the consortium that makes for a fun evening of dancing. Listen to what they have to say, and go with what they're used to and what works in their community. If they seek your guidance, and are happy to do whatever you as the caller wish, then you might suggest these ideas. 2) Have the band (or the CD or tape player) play the tune through at least once BEFORE teaching. Mary D. and others have commented on why this is important and useful-- it gives the dancers a sense of the tempo, mood, and phrasing; it gives the band a lick at learning or reviewing what might be a tricky bit of music (as a caller, I let/encourage them play it through twice if I sense that there's material that's posing some challenge); it helps the caller calibrate and review the figures; it confirms you've got the right track when using a recording. I usually have them play as the sets are forming. As dancers, I'm sure we've all been flustered by detailed teaching of a pattern when we have no clue as to the character of the dance (let alone tempo, meter, etc., etc.). 3) have one experienced player "line out" the melody as you teach the patterns, for the reasons that Cammy (and Bruce in his Scottish solo posting) described. This takes practice and coordination! Even seasoned musicians can get "off," and then dancers are learning figures to the wrong part of the tune, or there's too much dance left over after the music runs out. I usually review a set of hand signals with the lead player (start / stop / slow down / speed up / pause ) before doing this. When in doubt, better to doodle the tune/rhythm yourself (I have a few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling, or worse yet, singing, the tune, but that's another post). When possible a "merge" (as Cammy wrote) into the actual dance (or a "rolling start" as we say 'round here) can be ideal. But be sure the dance community is used to that... I've been caught short when a crowd of experienced dancers was bewildered that "we had started" when they were expecting to be told "OK, return to your home place" and half of them had begun to do so! 4) start the tune with a 2-note, _in-tempo_ introduction, and be sure to tell the dancers that's what you do. It's the best overall choice in my opinion and experience (with a few exceptions noted below) for many, many reasons: a) The English words "two notes" is absolutely clear to the dancers, whereas "the last B music" or "a phrase" or "two bars" etc. is absolutely meaningless to most. They will know what to listen for. b) The aural sensation of two notes is absolutely clear to the dancers, whereas a snippet of a tune most often is not. It's two beats (two footfalls), and go! It correlates to the sequence we all learned as children: "ready, set, Go" which lurks in our subconscious still [Ready, Steady, Go for the Anglo's] c) It conveys the tempo accurately, whereas one note usually does not. This assumes that the dancers have already heard the entire tune played at tempo, and have learned the figures with doodling or a melody line. Even when they haven't (as in "no talk-through no walk-through" sequences), I find that when the correct two notes (see below) are played clearly and emphatically, there is not a problem. Some musicians can give the one note an intermediate pulse that serves the same purpose (I think of Earl Gaddis & the BN's), but why not just play the 2 flippin' notes? d) It works in duple and triple meters just fine. For triple, the band plays beats 2 and 3. A note = a footfall. For "Salutation," the triple-time (3/2) tune in A major Jon cited, play a half-note C#, then a half-note D, _in tempo_, leading to the downbeat E. Works every time. e) It avoids confusion in the band. If you say to the band "play a couple of bars" or "play the last B" you're inviting a discussion to break out, just at the moment you don't want one (the dancers are half-leaning forward, ready to dance!). Do you really mean 2 bars?... they're just long notes!!... maybe the last 4 bars, OK?!! The _whole_ last B?? (Fenterlarick and many others have double length "B's"... you want us to start in the middle? where is the middle?... no, it's over here...) Some bands who play together regularly already have the short intro worked out, and it can work fine (the "Roodiments of English" who played for the Binghamton ball rehearsal last weekend were such a band. Everyone, including the dancers, knew the drill. I went with what they were used to). But even "2-bar" regulars can get into discussions just when you want them to play. f) A phrase as an intro is often confusing. Speaking for myself, though I know most of these tunes by heart, and can associate the dance figures with the tunes, I find myself on edge when I hear a band play a "phrase" as an intro. Is this the beginning of the "B"? Is this the last 2 bars (sometimes it's the same note sequence!) Sometimes the "B" music is two phrases repeated exactly. Are they playing the 2nd one, or the whole "B"? Even Morris teams have been known to have a dancer or two start in the middle of the once-to-yourself!! That's why we invented the "This time!" call just before the start of the actual dancing. 5) The correct 2 notes are 2 notes in the key's scale sequence that lead to the first note of the tune. If a the tune starts on scale degree 1, it's usually 3-2-1, or 6-7-8(1). If it starts on 5 (the dominant), it's usually 3-4-5. If it's modal, you use the modal (pentatonic or whatever) scale. Musicians will know. 6) The exceptions are the tunes with weird intro's. "Good Man of Cambridge" works best with 3 sharp, short, A-minor chords, in tempo, before the twiddly upbeat. "Sally in Our Alley" works only if you let the dancers hear the introductory ornament, and point it out as such, OR forego the ornamented intro the first time through and use a standard 2-note intro into the downbeat. Others are "Levi Jackson Rag," "Bryon's Boutade" and similar tunes with written-in introductions. I'm sure I've left stuff out, but that's what I've got off the top of my head... Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 04:06:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 07:06:07 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Left, right...&c. To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001b01c2faa2$933623c0$6ec35244-AT-Hansea> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20030403145102.21655.qmail-AT-web20602.mail.yahoo.com> <3E8CB4E7.6070204-AT-sympatico.ca> Greetings - Torbin, you came to a conclusion without providing any historical evidence to support it, which was the whole point of my question: *Why* should 'The rule should be: Always start with the Right foot...'? Thanks! Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torbin Zimmerman" To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Left, right...&c. > It seems there're two discussions going on: Is there a correct foot to > start each element of a country dance? and Should dancers be required to > start every figure on the same foot? > > We can agree on a standard for English country dancers to use when it > makes no difference, e.g. when starting Up a Double; but that doesn't > automatically answer the other question. > > I'm surprised the second question is causing so much trouble; I suspect > much of it stems from the question's being implicit. Every contributor > here is an experienced dancer and has the capacity to feel when there is > not a free choice of foot because one alternative is smoother, more > graceful, or more expressive of the music than the other. (I bet even > those advocating a standard foot don't always dance that way.) A few > instances have been discussed, e.g. in Graham's remarks about casting. > > I've always been taught, and try to teach others, that there is always a > best foot to start a figure, but which it is depends on figure, the > music, and sometimes the dancer's position in the set or the preceding > or following figure. Part of the joy of dancing, for me, is getting to > that point where the most elegant, graceful way to move is natural and > decisive. > > The rule should be: Always start with the Right foot when either will > do; at all other times, start in the best way for that moment in the > dance. If you're unsure what the best way is, that's an opportunity to > work on your dancing. > > Torbin Zimmerman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 07:54:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 From: Robin Hayden Subject: let's hear it To: ecd list Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3E8DAAA1.5040806-AT-earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ)" --Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune." Robin "Look, Ma! I can sing Easter Morn" Hayden --Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

Robin "Look, Ma! I can sing Easter Morn" Hayden






--Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:04:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:04:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Gene Murrow wrote:

> 5) The correct 2 notes are 2 notes in the key's scale sequence that lead
> to the first note of the tune.  If a the tune starts on scale degree 1,
> it's usually 3-2-1, or 6-7-8(1).  If it starts on 5 (the dominant), it's
> usually 3-4-5.  If it's modal, you use the modal (pentatonic or whatever)
> scale. Musicians will know.

wish i'd had this summary when i was starting to learn to play 2-note
intros!

besides the above, i sometimes play 5-7-8(1) for a melody that begins on
the tonic.

i've played with a lot of musicians to whom it was not obvious which 2
notes to use as an intro; so gene's advice to go with what the musicians
*are* used to is well taken.

susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:30:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:30:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Gene Murrow wrote:

> It's two beats (two footfalls), and go!  It correlates to the sequence
> we all learned as children: "ready, set, Go" which lurks in our
> subconscious still [Ready, Steady, Go for the Anglo's]

i think SCD teachers often use "ready, and" as a two-beat verbal intro in
class settings.  it worked well for me the other day for my first attempt
at teaching some middle-school kids morris dancing.  (oops, wrong list...)

> For "Salutation," the triple-time (3/2) tune in A major Jon cited, play
> a half-note C#, then a half-note D, _in tempo_, leading to the downbeat
> E.  Works every time.

this may work, but i find it musically very unsatisfying - it bothers me
to leave out the pickup notes the first time.  i don't have an ideal
solution; this is a case where i would personally rather agree with the
caller on a longer intro and make sure s/he can give the dancers a cue at
the right time.

> "B"?  Even Morris teams have been known to have a dancer or two start in
> the middle of the once-to-yourself!!   That's why we invented the "This
> time!" call just before the start of the actual dancing.

if i forget to think (or to watch the dancers) while playing for a morris
dance, i will often forget that the once-to-yourself isn't the first A
part of the dance, and i'll arrive at the B part before the dancers do,
then scramble to find, say, bar 3 of the A2...  so i would be very
reluctant to use a full A part as an ECD intro.

- susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:16:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:16:04 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Thanks, Gene for that excellent run-down. There are a few points that came
to mind.

For us the caller is part of the band. All this stuff about working out
hand signals etc... is irrelevant if the caller is the one who is playing.
I would encourage all callers to learn to play an instrument and to use it
as a teaching tool. As my own playing can testify, you do not have to be
any expert so long as you can catch the energy and rhythm of the dance.

All the problems in 4 seemed to be under the assumption that the dance has
been learned without the tune. If the figures have been learned as an
extension of the music (and vice versa) then when the caller says, for
example, "the band will play the circle half and cast before we start"
neither the dancers nor the musicians should be clueless as to what is
coming. If you use language such as "for the last phrase of music the 1s do
an elegant eight step cast down with the twos moving up" and walk it
through with music, then the announcement that "the band will play the last
phrase before we start" should mean SOMETHING to the dancers.

I don't see anything wrong with "this time" if it is helpful except that I
prefer to urge people to "honor your partner" about 2 bars prior to the
start of the dancing. I particularly do this when I don't know how big an
intro the band will play until they play it (e.g., when calling with a
different band). Come to think of it, I can't ever remember just letting
the dancers start when the melody gets around to the beginning - I always
say something to make sure no one is asleep.

As I said before, I may be slow or I may be overly grateful to my partner
for the opportunity to dance, but I usually find neither one nor even two
notes a sufficient length of time for me to properly acknowledge my partner
and also to be at full speed as the dance starts. I always feel a little
like I have short-changed my partner or like a stick that has been tossed
into a stream where I bob and lurch a while before I can integrate my
movement with the stream.

Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:24:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:24:32 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "New England" thing. In nearly 30
years we have never had piano for English. I always thought it was a
Boston/New York thing - or maybe CDSS tradition from Phil Merill and
before?
CK


                                                                                                                     
                      DavBarnert-AT-aol.com                                                                             
                      Sent by:                         To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                      
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        cc:                                                           
                      TANFORD.EDU                      Subject:  Re: Accordionists..play piano                       
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                      03-Apr-2003 06:20 PM                                                                           
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                          
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     




Jon wrote:

 >What's up with the insistence on a piano, anyway?

Gary wrote:

 >Our fiddler was born and raised in New England...

Even before I saw Gary's response, I was thinking "It's a New
England thing." Boston has a long history in the piano trade, and
early in our country's history, every hall in New England that
could be danced in (grange halls and whatever) had a piano.

Jon, again:

 >Personally, I've always wanted to play ECD music with a string
 >quartet. But if you think pianists are thin on the ground, try
 >looking for cellists.

Yo.

For several years, I was the cellist in the "Dance Flurry String
Quartet." We played one gig every year, at the Flurry in Saratoga
Springs in February. Waltzes, contradances, and schottisches. Alas,
no ECD.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:37:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:14:38 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: let's hear it
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030404.122349.-85063.88.dcculb-AT-juno.com>
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On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 Robin Hayden
 writes:
> OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words 
> about 
> inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your 
> alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

I don't see anything wrong with singing the tune, as long as the caller
really does know how to sing the tune. However, when they can't, they
should avoid it at all costs to avoid confusion. (I have several
not-so-fond memories of callers singing what they thought was the tune of
a dance in duple time when the dance itself was in 6/8, for example.)

Dawn Culbertson

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Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:11:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: my $.02
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I certainly concur with a dry-run of an A section
before the instruction begins--but often there is such
a hubbub on the floor that the benefit is lost. "Can
you play us the tune?" "I did."
A two-note introduction is very good--but I have
happened upon musicians who can't or won't go along,
and my inclination to impose an iron will on people
I'd like to be on speaking terms with later is nil. In
which case, we all muddle through.
I myself view "The Salutation" and "Sally in our
Alley" as parallel cases--i.e., I tell the dancers,
"The tune begins with a pickup--would one of you
[gesticulating wildly at band] play that for us
now?--so you'll hear that, then begin to move."
Singing: I am of mixed minds here. There is good
precedent for singing in Scottish or Scandinavian, but
rather little for ECD. That is, there's next-to-no
eyewitness record of ECD in progress, but even so I
have yet to hear of any where a diarist said, "& thn
Mistrisse Santlow sang & we all did dance." Plus,
sound systems are rarely calibrated to flatter a band,
a speaking voice, and a singing voice--so if the
caller begins to warble or hands the microphone to
Harry Connick Jr., the results are not optimal. Even
more awkward: the dancers will be distracted by the
*words*, not even so much because they're straining to
understand ("was that 'please' or 'pleas'?") as
because they have been trained to hear the words as
commands, and they may begin to short-circuit with
words for pleasure & not instruction. 
     

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:02:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:01:39 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: my $.02
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References: <20030404191144.37912.qmail-AT-web20606.mail.yahoo.com>

Graham Christian wrote:

>I certainly concur with a dry-run of an A section
>before the instruction begins--but often there is such
>a hubbub on the floor that the benefit is lost. "Can
>you play us the tune?" "I did."

We can either look for an optimal lull in the hubbub (giving folks a 
chance to visit first... 'tis a social occasion, after all), or seek 
to gain the dancers' attention before beginning.  Otherwise, the 
essential play-through can indeed be pointless.

>Singing:
>... Even more awkward: the dancers will be distracted...
>... and they may begin to short-circuit with words for pleasure
>& not instruction.

I have found this to be true, even when the singer is excellent and 
professional.  The only time singing for dance works for me is in the 
unchoreographed waltz, where sung words can add to pleasure, without 
distraction.

Most of the time, however, I've found that dance leaders who sing 
(unlike professional singers who are invited to occasionally sing 
along) set my teeth on edge.  For one thing, voice mics are not often 
well suited to singing.  Also, for blessing or curse, i have a very 
sensitive ear, and harsh tones, or notes which are 1/8 tone off the 
instrumental accompaniment are like painful miniature chainsaws.  My 
personal $.02: please don't.

Doodling a dance for the walk-through, in the absence of a willing 
musician, may be necessary and helpful.  That's fine.  But if asked 
respectfully, most musicians seem willing to play a simple tune 
accompaniment.  Or perhaps I've just been very fortunate?

So it goes.

Yrs tunefully, Linda
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:36:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 00:37:20 -0700
From: Ric Goldman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Join us on May Day morning to dance up the sun (San Francisco Bay Area)
To: Bay Area Community Dance , List - ECD PLAYFORD , Pryanksters 
Message-ID: 
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Yes folks, it's that time again.  All over the Bay Area, local Morris
dancers will join with other Morris teams all around the world, gathering
in darkness before dawn with their ribbons, bells, streamers, baldrics,
instruments, pomp, circumstance, and all around good cheer to wake and
dance up the sun on May Day morning, cajoling it to rise for another year.
You too can be part of the tradition and part of the magic of English
Morris dancing, a legacy thought to be hundreds of years old.  Join us
throughout the land in this wonderful ritual celebration.  Oh, and it's
free!

This really works!  The sun DOES come up, doesn't it?  Well now you know
why!  :-)

There are lots of teams and celebrations all thru the San Francisco Bay
Area and beyond.  For the latest information on schedule, details, maps to
the local May Day morning near you, and what this is all about, please see
the webpage at http://rgoldman.org/morris/mayday.htm or
http://shortcut.to/mayday

Some of these celebrations feature teams associated with the Bay Area
Country Dance Society (BACDS).  For more info on BACDS see their website
at http://www.bacds.org.

Hope to see you there...

Thanx, Ric Goldman
Faultline Morris

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:42:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:50:50 -0700
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dolmetsch Conference
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hi all,

I'm just plowing through e-mail on the list after neglecting it post -op (I 
had a total hip replacement a month ago)  and just wanted to issue a 
belated thank you to Colin Hume for the extensive comments on the Dolmetch 
conference.  I haven't been out of the house (except to see doctors and 
have more medical tests)  for the past six weeks, so a visit to the 
conference through your very thorough notes on it, was a real treat.

Colin, it was lovely of you to take the time to write up such detailed 
notes!   It gave me a flavor of what went on-- the variety of subjects, the 
particular slants of the various presenters.  There is lots to ponder while 
hanging out waiting for bone to grow into my new hip.  I was  especially 
interested in the Newcastle reconstruction, and in the connection between 
fencing and dance notation.

I saw that disclaimer you wrote at the beginning, so ( in case you get flak 
from others for sharing your personal views as well as the bare facts,) I'd 
like to let you know that I appreciate hearing your own slant on the 
presenters' papers.  In fact I couldn't imagine it otherwise, with you 
having done so much research and reconstruction yourself.

Regards, Victoria





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:49:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030408074900.25474.qmail-AT-web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
> 
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:03:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Diane Schmit  wrote:
> (Just a thought, but I wonder if this is a result of the dances in
> this area starting as a mix of English, squares & contras in the
> same evenings, or at the same venue on alternate weeks, with the
> various musicians playing for both.... so there was a carry over
> from the square and contra intros to ECD intros? People like Bob
> Dalsemer, Steve Hickman, Laurie Andres may know the answer to
that.)

Looking back to when I started dancing, most places did not have live
music, and I seem to remember that the recordings that were available
usually had intros longer an upbeat.> My personal feeling on the one
note intros is that somehow, they
> aren't as satisfying to me. (But, I've learned to live with them
> when we have out of town guest musicians, or I go out of town to
> dance.)

One of the frustrations that we have in Nordlys is that much of the
recorded Scandinavian music doesn't even have an upbeat. It just
starts at the beginning of the tune. It makes for sloppy starts in
performances. This year, for the first time, we have had a band on a
few occasions. 

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:47:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:47:16 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I would add to what Andy says about performance, that I have seen Morris
dancers in which they have been doing several different patterns of
footwork and yet the side had a unity of movement such that they seemed in
perfect synchrony. (I believe I have seen Bampton done this way with some
dancers are doing the left foot single steps while others are doing right
foot double steps, some starting with the half caper while others are doing
the foot-together jump).

In view of the above, when teaching morris, ECD, etc... I emphasize the
energy and spirit of movement more than the details as in which foot to
use, at least in the first pass where I am just getting dancers to "feel"
the joy of dancing it. More than half the time, dancers will work out the
most sensible footwork in the process without giving conscious thought to
it. Once they have it, I work on smoothing the awkward bits and this is
where it often happens that a dancer will say - "But it feels awkward to
set to the right at this point" and you may resolve that by suggesting they
use the right foot to start the turn preceding (just an example). Perhaps
even more important than training dancers to start with a particular foot,
is to get them so practised at the fudgings (mentioned in previous Emails
as "double step" or "catch" step) that they can do this without thinking
anything more than "I want set to the right next."

Lest you think that I am consistent, I have sometimes found that newer
dancers feel empowered by knowing which foot they should be on and you
can't even get them to begin learning the figure until you tell them how to
start and so I do!
Cammy



                                                                                                                                       
                      Andy Peterson                                                                                                    
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: Left or Right?                                                    
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                      08-Apr-2003 03:49 AM                                                                                             
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
>
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:34:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:36:47 +0100
From: trev 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003001c2fded$344663e0$1c3c0751-AT-trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 

Do your pianists bring their piano with them?

One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
country they  are playing in.
Does the same thing happen over in US?

Trev

>
> I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "New England" thing. In nearly
30
> years we have never had piano for English. I always thought it was a
> Boston/New York thing - or maybe CDSS tradition from Phil Merill and
> before?
> CK
>




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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:22:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 12:21:09 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002e01c2fdf3$3f936620$a06a550c-AT-paulstam>
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<>

Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
into barroom jangle in a short time.

<>

Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:56:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:56:39 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright around. I needed one for
my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I put large, easy rolling
wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it would be useful (a
block-party for example) I would strap it onto a flatbed trailer that had
enough room for the whole band and we would just park the trailer where we
wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up the sound gear if
necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to rock quite a bit if the
piano player was too animated.
CK



                                                                                                                                       
                      Paul Stamler                                                                                                     
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: piano?                                                            
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                      08-Apr-2003 01:21 PM                                                                                             
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




<>

Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
into barroom jangle in a short time.

<>

Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.

Peace,
Paul






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:11:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030408181119.43276.qmail-AT-web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
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We have a guy in the area that travels with his own
harpsichord.  It was really beautiful for our New
Years Eve Ball in old Newcastle, Delaware.

Tom

--- Campbell Kaynor 
wrote:
> 
> In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright
> around. I needed one for
> my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I
> put large, easy rolling
> wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it
> would be useful (a
> block-party for example) I would strap it onto a
> flatbed trailer that had
> enough room for the whole band and we would just
> park the trailer where we
> wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up
> the sound gear if
> necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to
> rock quite a bit if the
> piano player was too animated.
> CK



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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:13:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:15:02 -0400
From: Torbin Zimmerman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9311A6.6020202-AT-sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 

Rock 'n' roll!

Torbin

Campbell Kaynor wrote:

>In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright around. I needed one for
>my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I put large, easy rolling
>wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it would be useful (a
>block-party for example) I would strap it onto a flatbed trailer that had
>enough room for the whole band and we would just park the trailer where we
>wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up the sound gear if
>necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to rock quite a bit if the
>piano player was too animated.
>CK
>
>
>
>                                                                                                                                       
>                      Paul Stamler                                                                                                     
>                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
>                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
>                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: piano?                                                            
>                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
>                                                                                                                                       
>                                                                                                                                       
>                      08-Apr-2003 01:21 PM                                                                                             
>                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
>                                                                                                                                       
>                                                                                                                                       
>
>
>
>
><
>One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
>their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
>country they  are playing in.>>
>
>Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
>into barroom jangle in a short time.
>
><>
>
>Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:22:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:21:49 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References:  <003001c2fded$344663e0$1c3c0751-AT-trevormo>

At 5:36 PM +0100, on 4/8/03, trev wrote:
>Do your pianists bring their piano with them?
>
>One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
>their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
>country they  are playing in.
>Does the same thing happen over in US?

If this had been sent exactly one week earlier, I'm not sure I would 
have believed it!
-- 
Peace,
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:32:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: 
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:31:50 +1000
From: "Garden, John (DPL)" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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For all this discussion of left or right foot start- has anyone yet c=
onsidered the importance of alternation when it came to footwork in e=
arly-mid 17th century dance? Alternation is certainly central to the =
dance aesthetic/language of the day (and indeed of the preceding cent=
ury) when it comes to figures (side one shoulder then side the other,=
 arm one way then the other etc)... and I believe it may have been eq=
ually important (to the accomplished dancer of the day at least) with=
 respect to foot work. Indeed, it helps make sense of a lot of the re=
petition and enables you to dance with uninterupted double steps thro=
ughout (with no extra steps or weight change). For example, you can o=
pen a dance such as 'Grimstock' with a l.f.double up, retire with r.f=
.double, set left and right, then turn single with l.f.double over th=
e l.sh., ready to repeat all the above starting with a r.f.double up,=
 left back, set right and left, then turn single over the r.sh. The f=
ormula is particularly useful in siding and arming, as you end up alw=
ays starting these figures with the more conventient outside foot - s=
tart your r.sh. (into line) siding with l.f., back r.f., set l&r, tur=
n single over l.sh., then start your l.sh. siding with your r.f., bac=
k l.f, set r&l, turn single with a double over r.sh. Similarly for ar=
ming. Similarly for when the opening doubles are to be performed in a=
 group circle to the left (as in Gathering Peascods). Similarly also =
for within some figures (e.g. if in the final chain of Dargeson you t=
ake a l.f.double when pulling past on the r.h. and a r.f. double when=
 pulling past on the l.f., you have the satisfaction of starting each=
 passing figure with the outside foot - the same principle as that wh=
ich can work for the chorus figures in most situations). The principl=
e can hold for many early Playford dances - or at least parts of many=
 dances (for example, does not work perfectly for the uninterupted pa=
ir of up&back a double in Nonesuch, but will work for the subsequent =
pair of setting & turn single)- and I think adds a lot to dancer sati=
sfaction when participating in these early dances.  The complementing=
 of alternation in figure direction with alternation in footwork is n=
ot so easily achieved using the dominating MECD convention of an unin=
terupted walking step - no matter with which foot you choose to start=
. This is not to say I myself always recommend doubles and alternatio=
n over an easy walking step - perhaps even one starting r.f. For me i=
t depends on context - an individual dance's period and figures, the =
dancer's expectations, the nature of the occasion (whether its a conn=
oisseurs early dance workshop or a fun social night) etc, etc. As alw=
ays, horses for courses and let a thousand flowers bloom (to mix my m=
etaphors!).=20
John Garden
www.earthlydelights.com.au

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Andy Peterson [mailto:lyrlsbro-AT-yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:49 PM
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Left or Right?


--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
>=20
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:15:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: 
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:14:45 +1000
From: "Garden, John (DPL)" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: let's hear it
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

For my 2c worth, although once the music starts I see little need to =
turn the evening into a square dance by singing my calls, although I'=
d probably not lilt my words on the first walk through, on a second w=
alk through before music starts, and although I'm not sure of the mea=
ning of 'doodling' (as for an Australian that is simply something you=
 do with a pen and paper), I am probably guilty of echoing/forshadowi=
ng/tracing the tune in my prompting. I find it a very efficient way t=
o link the dancing to the music (quiet an important I'm sure all woul=
d agree) and feel I could not lead a walk through half as effectively=
 if I didn't have the up-coming tune in mind while doing so and didn'=
t let my words ride out on the tune occasionally. I'm not sure that w=
e should need to be too defensive about this, however, as people have=
 for millenium danced to singing (and still do in more traditional pa=
rts of Europe). Indeed, feeling it was something missing from our own=
 presentday country dance tradition, I spent a lot of the last couple=
 of years writing dances which would fit 64 common Christmas Carols (=
the result many know is December 2002 release 'The Christmas Carol Da=
nce Book') in the hope that people might be able to sing while they d=
ance, or dance to nothing but singing - and indeed, at the many works=
hops at which we tested this material (and for which we didn't always=
 have playing musicians- it just didn't seem necessary) participants =
seemed to have absolutely no problem either following my call sung/ut=
tered to a carol melody, or, when the call seemed unnecessary, just d=
ancing to their own singing of the carol. Dancers seemed to only have=
 had their pleasure enhanced when our band in presenting this materia=
l at evening dances or balls has been joined on stage by singers - ev=
en a choir. So, let's hear it!
John Garden
www.earthlydelights.com.au

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Dawn C. Culbertson [mailto:dcculb-AT-juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:15 AM
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: let's hear it

On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 Robin Hayden
 writes:
> OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words=
=20
> about=20
> inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your=
=20
> alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

I don't see anything wrong with singing the tune, as long as the call=
er
really does know how to sing the tune. However, when they can't, they
should avoid it at all costs to avoid confusion. (I have several
not-so-fond memories of callers singing what they thought was the tun=
e of
a dance in duple time when the dance itself was in 6/8, for example.)

Dawn Culbertson

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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:31:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:27 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001b01c2ff09$49914180$4021bc3f-AT-g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Trevor wrote:
> In Scottish it's always a chord (or sometimes 2 chords if some couples
> have to change sides) - but then you all already dancing before you know
> the tempo. (Can be a bit embarrassing if you start dancing a reel and the
> band  plays a strathspey!)

It should be noted that at an SCD party, dancers are supposed to wait for
the band to play 8 bars of music before they form sets.  That means that the
dancers, having heard a bit of the tune, will know whether it's quicktime or
strathspey and exactly what the tempo is.   During the chord all that the
dancers need think about is the bow or curtsey (except for the first couple,
who are often mouthing to each other "*how* does it start??!!")

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:31:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:32 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Susie Lorand wrote:
 
> i think SCD teachers often use "ready, and" as a two-beat verbal intro in
> class settings. 


(Ahem.....)
Not *often*.  *Always*.......

Pat
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:32:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:28 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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What she (Mary Devlin) said.  Perfect.  The only thing I'd add is that the
phrase-length introduction also allows time for bows and curtseys, a
practice that was common when I learned ECD in the mid-80s in the
Washington, D.C., area.  I mourn the absence of this practice in most groups
nowadays.

Pat

>
> I'll chime in from the dancer / caller perspective.  My very strong
> preference is for the phrase approach as Jon suggests.
>
> There is simply not enough information in a one or two note
> pick-up for most
> people. [snip to end]


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:32:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:30 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Diane Schmit wrote (about the one-phrase intro):

> That is the norm in the Baltimore/DC area, what I first learned to dance
> to, and as a dancer, it is my preferred. But, it seems that most other
> places on the east coast, it is a single note or chord.

Williamsburg, Richmond, Staunton, and various smaller groups in this part of
Virginia use the phrase-length introduction, during which time partners
honor each other.  Charlottesville, where Howard and I dance now, allows the
caller or the musicians to decide on the introduction.  Honors are not
given.

Pat



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:26:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:21:01 +0100
From: trev 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004101c2ff54$9869c700$ee350751-AT-trevormo>
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References: <001b01c2ff09$49914180$4021bc3f-AT-g9tfz>



> Trevor wrote:
> > In Scottish it's always a chord (or sometimes 2 chords if some
couples
> > have to change sides) - but then you all already dancing before you
know
> > the tempo. (Can be a bit embarrassing if you start dancing a reel
and the
> > band  plays a strathspey!)
>

And Pat wrote:
> It should be noted that at an SCD party, dancers are supposed to wait
for
> the band to play 8 bars of music before they form sets.  That means
that the
> dancers, having heard a bit of the tune, will know whether it's
quicktime or
> strathspey and exactly what the tempo is.   During the chord all that
the
> dancers need think about is the bow or curtsey (except for the first
couple,
> who are often mouthing to each other "*how* does it start??!!")
>

And I reply (just to be pedantic!)
Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.  Back
to the original statement that you do not always know the tempo, or may
have forgotten!

Trev


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 05:19:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:20 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200304101219.NAA30224-AT-galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Thursday, April 10, 2003 at 12:21:01 PM, Trev wrote:

> > And I reply (just to be pedantic!)
> Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
> playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
> dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.

Unless of course you are part of the growing zesty contra scene here where we are encouraging people to form up the next set without waiting for band or MC!

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk



--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:18:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:18:19 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ecd-list 
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For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark Hall of Fame adaptation of 
"Return of the Native" last night.  I can now report, based on Hallmark's 
extensive research into dance styles in English villages of the 1870's, 
that dancing in that period consisted almost exclusively of arming.  Lots 
of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and skipping around in 
circles, followed by changing partners, linking elbows with the new 
partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one point Eustacia (spunky but 
tragically self-centered heroine, played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) and Mr. 
Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero, played by some random 
hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might have been a polka 
except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than ballroom position, 
after which he comments to her that "to the others, dance is a form of 
exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably refers to the fact that 
she knows how to do something other than arming.

Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for historical accuracy, but they 
might have just picked up the phone and called somebody and asked what the 
dances were supposed to look like.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:28:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:27:38 -0400
From: C 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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Jon -- That was one of the most entertaining posts I've ever read. :)
Thank you!! -- Cara :)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Berger
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:18 AM
To: ecd-list
Subject: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark


For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark Hall of Fame adaptation
of 
"Return of the Native" last night.  I can now report, based on
Hallmark's 
extensive research into dance styles in English villages of the 1870's, 
that dancing in that period consisted almost exclusively of arming.
Lots 
of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and skipping around in 
circles, followed by changing partners, linking elbows with the new 
partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one point Eustacia (spunky
but 
tragically self-centered heroine, played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) and
Mr. 
Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero, played by some
random 
hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might have been a polka 
except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than ballroom position, 
after which he comments to her that "to the others, dance is a form of 
exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably refers to the fact
that 
she knows how to do something other than arming.

Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for historical accuracy, but
they 
might have just picked up the phone and called somebody and asked what
the 
dances were supposed to look like.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:42:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410144229.47142.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As a recent article in the local paper said: "You
don't eat popcorn in history class."

--- Jon Berger  wrote:
> For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark
> Hall of Fame adaptation of 
> "Return of the Native" last night.  I can now
> report, based on Hallmark's 
> extensive research into dance styles in English
> villages of the 1870's, 
> that dancing in that period consisted almost
> exclusively of arming.  Lots 
> of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and
> skipping around in 
> circles, followed by changing partners, linking
> elbows with the new 
> partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one
> point Eustacia (spunky but 
> tragically self-centered heroine, played by
> Catherine Zeta-Jones) and Mr. 
> Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero,
> played by some random 
> hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might
> have been a polka 
> except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than
> ballroom position, 
> after which he comments to her that "to the others,
> dance is a form of 
> exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably
> refers to the fact that 
> she knows how to do something other than arming.
> 
> Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> historical accuracy, but they 
> might have just picked up the phone and called
> somebody and asked what the 
> dances were supposed to look like.
> 
> -- 
> Jon Berger
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
> 


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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:45:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410144508.78806.qmail-AT-web20605.mail.yahoo.com>
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> Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> historical accuracy, but they 
> might have just picked up the phone and called
> somebody and asked what the 
> dances were supposed to look like.
And one might have said the same about any number of
Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
about one-quarter right--gee, they're dancing a
recognizable dance, but 100 years too late, or in an
obviously-wrong reconstruction (Bentley twirl, &c.). 
I think it's fairly obvious why the dance portions go
so wrong. 
There is almost no overlap between theatre/film
producers and dance scholars (there's scarcely overlap
between dance scholars and *dancers*!).
Dance is not "important"--so, it's the very last
thought. All we have to convey is that the hero &
heroine get closer, right? so, they just kinda move
around, right? doesn't really matter what they're
doing, right?
I suspect, too, that often by this point they have
some sort of choreographer on retainer, who either
doesn't know anything about dancing pre-1880 (or
1980); or thinks s/he knows better than Kynaston or
Pecour; or thinks that old thing is very nice but
won't go over.   
Actors are not necessarily dancers of any kind. Miss
Zeta-Jones had to work very hard, we are told, to get
her well-paid gams to execute the choreography of
*Chicago*. Now imagine getting her to do, say, a
convincing minuet step (I am trying to picture her as
Millamant, but it's not working somehow), with its
lift, cross-rhythm timing, and forward carriage; or a
good balanc'e and bourr'ee for, say, "Dover Pier." Not
likely.
Dance--serious dance--is frightening and distracting.
Having your troupe do "The Triumph" (perfectly
suitable for Hardy!) is apt to make most of the
audience say, "Oh my Lord; what are they doing? are
they *dancing*?" The further back you go in time, the
harder it gets: Regency and Baroque dance--even social
dances--tend to look awfully twee to audiences
accustomed to the Funky Chicken.       

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:13:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:13:36 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD400GA6VMPVC-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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In reply to Trevor about the introductory chord for SCD:

If the dance is not being briefed, the dancers would have a program and it 
would tell on the program whether the dance is a jig, a reel, or a strathspey. 
If the MC or dance leader is briefing the dance before it is danced, that 
person would say the name of the dance and whether it is an 8X32 strathspey, a 
4X32 reel, a 6X32 jig, etc. So, if the dancers are listening, they will know 
what type of a dance it is. Also, when the band plays the chord, if it is a 
quick-time dance (jig or reel), the chord is much shorter than the long 
introductory chord for a strathspey. (But not many SCD enthusiasts notice that, 
I'm sure.)

There have been some amusing false-starts at SCD class over the years when the 
wrong dance has been cued up on the CD player (we don't have live music for 
class) and the dancers think it's a strathspey but music for a jig or a reel 
begins! And the opposite has happened when we think the dance is a jig or a 
reel and the slower strathspey music starts. 

For a skit at a Scottish Country Dance weekend, I got six women to dance a 
strathspey (Wind on Loch Fyne) to a Country and Western song (Trashy Women) and 
it worked perfectly as long as we put more lipstick and rouge on our faces 
during the eight-bar instrumental interlude in between the second and third 
time through the dance. (In the song "Trashy Women" the male singer sings 
about "Too much lipstick, too much rouge" and he likes his women "just a little 
on the trashy side.") It took some of the long-time Scottish Country dancers 
quite a while to figure out that we were actually dancing "Wind on Loch Fyne" 
and then they were even more amused. It's always fun to be able to laugh at 
yourself.

Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:08:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:08:27 +0000 (US/Eastern)
From: cedar-AT-interlog.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: cedar-AT-interlog.com
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> > Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> > historical accuracy, but they 
> > might have just picked up the phone and called
> > somebody and asked what the 
> > dances were supposed to look like.

> And one might have said the same about any number of
> Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
> almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
> about one-quarter right--gee, they're dancing a
> recognizable dance, but 100 years too late, or in an
> obviously-wrong reconstruction (Bentley twirl, &c.). 
> I think it's fairly obvious why the dance portions go
> so wrong. 

This is true for most .
Just ask a costumer about costumes, or a fencer about
fencing, or ...

It's too bad that they don't do a little more research and
apply it, but it's not totally surprising they don't spend the
time and money if it's not a personal interest.


Christine

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:35:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NOMAD 2003 announcement
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410173440.6757.qmail-AT-web13607.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am pleased to share with you all that the dates for NOMAD 2003 have
been set.  The festival will take place November 15-16 in a new
location, the Hill Career Regional High School in NEW HAVEN, CT.  

This is a recently built (1998), beautifully designed magnet school,
and we are excited about the opportunities the new location will
provide. It is easily accessible not only from major highways, but by
public transit via the train as well, and it's convenient to downtown
New Haven, with a diversity of restaurants and local hotels.  Those
interested in a peek at the school can find it at:
http://www.nhps.net/about/schoolconstruction.asp

More details will be forthcoming as NOMAD approaches.  In the
meantime, we are now accepting applications to perform at NOMAD. The
deadline for first consideration is May 20.  Applications are
available on-line at:
http://www.geocities.com/nomadfest/

Barbara

=====
It is in the nature of tyranny to deride the will of the people as the voice of the mob, and to denounce the cry for freedom as the roar of anarchy.
 --William Safire,  1989

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:52:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:49:10 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: If All the World Were Paper, B part
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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"If All the World Were Paper", in Playford, has one part, played 12 
times. In Barnes, it has two parts, played 6 times. Anyone know where 
this B part came from?

The tune (8 bars only) is in the book for my recorder class, and the 
teacher asked me if I knew the dance. I said no, but next week I'll 
say yes, and invite the class to come over and play it for us the 
following week. (Both are on Tuesday, one after the other.)
-- 
Peace,
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:54:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:52:51 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: St. Louis Playford Ball April 26th
To: ecd list 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <006a01c2ff8a$020ef6a0$b974550c-AT-paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi folks:

The St. Louis English Country Dancers present their annual spring Playford
Ball on Saturday, April 26, 2003, from 7:30 - 11:00 pm, at First
Congregational Church, 6501 Wydown Blvd.. (It's in Clayton, just outside the
city limits.) Music will be provided by the Original Speckled Band, calling
by Peter Wollenberg, Missy Reisenleiter, Rebecca Taylor and Paul Stamler.
Participants are asked to bring snacks to share at the break, and fancy
dress (your definition!) is encouraged but not required. For more
information, directions, or possible places to stay, call or e-mail me (info
below) or check out our website (also below).

Dances will be chosen from the following:

The Accomplished Maid
Auretti's Dutch Skipper
Bar a Bar
Bare Necessities
Dover Pier
Dublin Bay
Elizabeth
Fandango
First Lady
Geud Man of Ballingigh
Good Man of Cambridge
Handel With Care
Heartease
John Tallis' Canon
Lovely Nancy
Mount Hills
Orleans Baffled
Sarah
Scotch Cap
Sellenger's Round
Softly Good Tummas
Yellow Stockings

A splendid time is guaranteed for all!

Peace,
Paul Stamler
314-664-9207
pstamler-AT-pobox.com
Website: http://members.aol.com/paradiseMO/english.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410183633.45685.qmail-AT-web13601.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Graham Christian  wrote:
> > Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> > historical accuracy, but they 
> > might have just picked up the phone and called
> > somebody and asked what the 
> > dances were supposed to look like.

> And one might have said the same about any number of
> Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
> almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
> about one-quarter right--

I would take Shakespeare off that list, Unlike Hardy and Austen, his
works are not set in a realistic, historical context.  Even where
real locations and times are named, with the possible exception of
the history plays, they are not intended as realistic settings, but
rather as signifiers for the exotic, locales outside everyday
knowledge. A Verona of the imagination, for example.  Shakespeare's
realms are outside of time and history, which is why it can work so
well to transpose to different eras.  One of the best Shakespeare
plays I've ever seen was a "Much Ado About Nothing" set in the Harlem
Renaissance after World War I.  And the best "Twelfth Night" I've
seen was set in Italy of the early 1960s.

Unless of course one is trying to recreate as closely as possible a
Shakespeare play as it would have been performed in Elizabethan times
- in which case the first thing you have to do is exclude all women
from the cast.    

=====
It is in the nature of tyranny to deride the will of the people as the voice of the mob, and to denounce the cry for freedom as the roar of anarchy.
 --William Safire,  1989

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:56:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:55:33 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5D374B4E.4B590157.0078596C-AT-aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/10/2003 1:36:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, barbararuth-AT-rocketmail.com writes:

> - in which case the first thing you have to do is exclude 
> all women
> from the cast.

Well, the women characters can stay, it's the women actors who would have to go!

Suzanne // splitting hairs (or ends?)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:05:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410190535.68532.qmail-AT-web20604.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I would take Shakespeare off that list, Unlike Hardy
> and Austen, his
> works are not set in a realistic, historical
> context.  Even where
> real locations and times are named, with the
> possible exception of
> the history plays, they are not intended as
> realistic settings, but
> rather as signifiers for the exotic, locales outside
> everyday
> knowledge. 
True enough, Barbara--but too often, no matter the
ostensible setting, the production features a dance
clearly intended to be a social dance or country
dance--and it's a mess, historically and kinetically
(back to All Arming All the Time). 
I wouldn't be such an awful stickler for Renaissance
dance in Shakespeare--but I like it better when it's
convincing *somehow*--as dance, if not as history.     

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:47:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:47:31 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD500MKF8B9PR-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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It's frustrating for my husband (a military history aficionado) to watch war 
movies because the uniforms are invariably incorrect in some way (wrong time 
period, wrong medals, etc.) or the way the actors/sailors are performing their 
duties on a ship or boat is incorrect, and there are many things that do not 
match up with the way things are really done or are supposed to be done. Even 
if the movie had an "expert" military consultant, many details are overlooked. 
So, it's the same problem with period movies that have dancing in them. The 
choreographer is hired to prepare the actors for the dance scenes and the 
dances end up being the choreographer's "vision" of how the dances looked, or 
how he/she wants the dances to appear in the movie.

Catie Condran Geist
Palm Bay, Florida
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:19:14 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000901c2ff9e$748cdee0$6350b341-AT-g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Trevor wrote:

> Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
> playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
> dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.

OHMYGOSH,  you're kidding! Alternate ways of doing something??!!??  In
SCD??!!  The mind reels from the shock.....("...must find The Manual....must
find The Manual....")

> Back
> to the original statement that you do not always know the tempo, or may
> have forgotten!

But you will know, from either cheat sheet, program, or MC, whether it's
quicktime or strathspey.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:20:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410201954.11382.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
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Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*! 
Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!


--- catiegeist-AT-att.net wrote:
> It's frustrating for my husband (a military history
> aficionado) to watch war 
> movies because the uniforms are invariably incorrect
> in some way (wrong time 
> period, wrong medals, etc.) or the way the
> actors/sailors are performing their 
> duties on a ship or boat is incorrect, and there are
> many things that do not 
> match up with the way things are really done or are
> supposed to be done. Even 
> if the movie had an "expert" military consultant,
> many details are overlooked. 
> So, it's the same problem with period movies that
> have dancing in them. The 
> choreographer is hired to prepare the actors for the
> dance scenes and the 
> dances end up being the choreographer's "vision" of
> how the dances looked, or 
> how he/she wants the dances to appear in the movie.
> 
> Catie Condran Geist
> Palm Bay, Florida


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:37:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:36:54 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD5008BFALJDA-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes and dancing in "A Knight's 
Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music, etc., in that setting. And 
I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done in modern costumes and a 
modern time period. And I have been very entertained by "Clueless" and "Bridget 
Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's _Emma_. It's just somewhat 
irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly historically accurate and 
many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But, it's just a movie, I know!

Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:42:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:32:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKBTXVXTM927KTR-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Tom Vincent wrote:

> Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
> documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*!
> Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
> 'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!

That doesn't necessarily follow.  The usual objection, which I support,
is that a lot of people get their ideas of what people wore and how they
behaved from historical movies.  De facto, they serve an educational (or
mis-educational) function.  That's obviously not their primary purpose,
which is simply to entertain (and to make money thereby).  What annoys me
is when they could do it right without major extra effort and just blow it
off, and I can't tell why.

I quite enjoyed almost all of "A Knight's Tale", which made it extremely clear
from the get-go (joust audience sings along to a Queen tune) that it was some
kind of modern daydream about the Middle Ages, and nothing in it should be
taken seriously.  (I was rooting for the hero to end up with the attractive
armourer woman, not the vapid princess, so the ending annoyed me, and there
were a couple of places with excessive tearjerking for a lighthearted "don't
take me seriously", so I wasn't completely happy with the movie ... but I
enjoyed just about all the dance and music numbers.)

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:55:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:55:27 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left, right...&c.
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030404.074815.-1325153.0.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0800 (PST) Tom Vincent
 writes:
> But *why* is the right foot the default?   
  

Because Mr. Sharp said so, that's why. Remember, he was standardizing
things for the benefit of school kids & teachers.  I learned from Genny
Shimer & May Gadd, everything was right-footed. I can't even recall that
there were any dances in the canon--remember it was much more limited
than today--that had a cloverleaf or mirror turn single: I can remember
my surprise when this concept was introduced for Rufty Tufty.

Allison (who is not really as old as she sometimes sounds--at least so
she likes to think) Thompson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:56:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410205607.17595.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Since when is a *movie* supposed to be historically
accurate?  Even Shakespeare's history plays weren't
historically accurate!  They're amusements, money
makers, interpretations.

On a Medieval dance list, I challenged anyone to come
up with a Medieval-themed movie that actually had
Medieval music in it.  I'm still waiting for a solid
answer to that one!  I think the best someone could
come up with was a bit of Gregorian Chant that briefly
played in 'Ladyhawk'!

'Period pieces' are beautiful, with their costuming,
music, archaic speech, even dancing, but they're
trying to tell a story that's relevant to today's
audience.

'Gangs of New York', 'The Hours' and 'The Pianist'
were all recently criticized for historical
inaccuracies, combining historical figures and so on: 
Well, yeah!  They weren't done by the Discovery
Channel!

I think doing SCD to C/W music sounds like a hoot! 
I've done Medieval dancing to the 'Mortal Combat'
soundtrack and there's a whole list somewhere of ECD
dances, pavans and bransles that can be done to some
modern music.  Very creative and energizing!  It's fun
to look at historical arts in a modern light *as well*
as appreciate them in their original historical
setting...but then, I'm a Heretic. :)


--- catiegeist-AT-att.net wrote:
> I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes
> and dancing in "A Knight's 
> Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music,
> etc., in that setting. And 
> I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done
> in modern costumes and a 
> modern time period. And I have been very entertained
> by "Clueless" and "Bridget 
> Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's
> _Emma_. It's just somewhat 
> irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly
> historically accurate and 
> many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But,
> it's just a movie, I know!
> 
> Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:05:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:05:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410210537.9987.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And I'd hate to think that Americans entire view of
Iraqi culture and history is based on the news
coverage from the past three weeks!

Actually, there was quite a bit in AKT that was
historically *inspired* (Chaucer and his bits, the
female armorer [no, really!], etc.), but it's really
the film-viewer's responsibility to understand the
difference between research and entertainment.

Anyway, I think this is a relatively recent
complaint...I don't remember seeing *any* e-mails in
1967 complaining about historical inaccuracies when
'Camelot' came out! ;>

--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
 wrote:
> Tom Vincent wrote:
> 
> > Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
> > documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*!
> > Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
> > 'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!
> 
> That doesn't necessarily follow.  The usual
> objection, which I support,
> is that a lot of people get their ideas of what
> people wore and how they
> behaved from historical movies.  De facto, they
> serve an educational (or
> mis-educational) function.  That's obviously not
> their primary purpose,
> which is simply to entertain (and to make money
> thereby).  What annoys me
> is when they could do it right without major extra
> effort and just blow it
> off, and I can't tell why.
> 
> I quite enjoyed almost all of "A Knight's Tale",
> which made it extremely clear
> from the get-go (joust audience sings along to a
> Queen tune) that it was some
> kind of modern daydream about the Middle Ages, and
> nothing in it should be
> taken seriously.  (I was rooting for the hero to end
> up with the attractive
> armourer woman, not the vapid princess, so the
> ending annoyed me, and there
> were a couple of places with excessive tearjerking
> for a lighthearted "don't
> take me seriously", so I wasn't completely happy
> with the movie ... but I
> enjoyed just about all the dance and music numbers.)
> 
> -- Alan
> 
> -- 
>
===============================================================================
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or
> SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill
> Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
>
===============================================================================
> 


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:25:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:15:12 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: If All the World Were Paper, B part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410.172207.-1870971.32.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think the second part was devised by Marshall Barron--she also added a
part to Broom, the Bonny, Bonny Broom. 

Allison Thompson



On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:49:10 -0700 "Gary D. Shapiro"
 writes:
> "If All the World Were Paper", in Playford, has one part, played 12 
> times. In Barnes, it has two parts, played 6 times. Anyone know 
> where 
> this B part came from?
> 
> The tune (8 bars only) is in the book for my recorder class, and the 
> 
> teacher asked me if I knew the dance. I said no, but next week I'll 
> say yes, and invite the class to come over and play it for us the 
> following week. (Both are on Tuesday, one after the other.)
> -- 
> Peace,
> Gary
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:06:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:52:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: Tom Vincent 
CC: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKERWVCYI91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
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Tom Vincent wrote:

> And I'd hate to think that Americans entire view of
> Iraqi culture and history is based on the news
> coverage from the past three weeks!

> Actually, there was quite a bit in AKT that was
> historically *inspired* (Chaucer and his bits, the
> female armorer [no, really!], etc.), but it's really
> the film-viewer's responsibility to understand the
> difference between research and entertainment.

> Anyway, I think this is a relatively recent
> complaint...I don't remember seeing *any* e-mails in
> 1967 complaining about historical inaccuracies when
> 'Camelot' came out! ;>

And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish 
dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?

(Which reminds me: I just saw a production of 'Paint Your Wagon' using the 1951
Broadway script and score (and leads who can actually sing and dance, unlike
the movie) and I basically had no historical problems with its portrayal of
the California Gold Rush and the people involved (also unlike the movie).  I
noticed that there were only six people in  the square dance, and that the
calls were possibly more like 1900 than 1850, but I didn't have a problem with
it.  I think it's really an excellent show and says, more clearly than any play
I can think of offhand, some particular things about the restless American
spirit.  And "Wandering Star", "We're On Our Way", "They Call the Wind Maria"
are all really good songs.  I sure didn't know until now that "I Talk to the
Trees" was (a) a decent song and (b) a rumba.)

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:09:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:08:51 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Messing with the dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Alan said:
...What annoys me
is when they could do it right without major extra effort and just blow it
off, and I can't tell why.

Alan,
I agree - it annoys me.
I have finally hypothesized (after seeing many of these oddities) that some
instructor of the actors has decided that they must leave their "artistic"
stamp on what is being done even if the usual way was just as good. The
original, done well, would never show the mark and artistry of the
instructor the way an unusual variant will.

I sometimes find that I have a difficult time enjoying performances (like
"Revels" to mention one that should be easy to enjoy) because people have
tampered with the angle of the set, the figures, the tune, the
choreography, etc... I feel such adjustments are fine if they serve a
specific function. For example, I was dancing and playing a Morris jig at a
gig this past weekend, and left out one set of capers (and it's associated
chorus) in order not to lose the attention of some antsy children. However,
the changes that irk me are the ones that serve no useful purpose that I
can discern but do in fact misinform the public. For example, a longways
set lined up across the stage - you would think that the number ones would
be nearest the musician, but instead they take hands four from the further
end up towards the music!  To the audience it appeared that all the dancers
are on the improper side and all the action is directed towards the head of
the set. Another time I watched a set form on an exact diagonal to the
walls of the stage set. There was no reason that I could discern. The set
would have fit equally well or better on a parallel with the walls. The
audience sitting in its semi-circular seating were viewing the dancers from
every angle no matter how they formed. I know how difficult it is to hold a
set in this orientation so it seems the dancers had practiced this and had
learned how to maintain the diagonal. They did a great job. I worry about
what these things tell the audience who tends to assume that the
performances are authoritative renditions, about these dances?

Those of you who know me are probably laughing because I am notorious for
tampering with the norm and the dogma, but several things are different
about the way that I do it:
1) I am almost always working in a participatory rather than performance
setting and the "audience" is learning the dance and hearing my disclaimers
about the usual way and my personal interpretation. If it is an experiment
they know it and have no illusions about what to expect when they go to
someone else's dance.
2) I always have a reason for why I think my alteration to the norm
improves the dance or is a better rendition of the original.

Well that's my cynical assessment,
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:18:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:18:15 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3684CE7B.68B04980.0078596C-AT-aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there she goes again!)...

In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate Blanchette, it was startling to hear music from Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what) at the moment when she transformed herself from Elizabeth the person to Queen Elizabeth the icon.  Sure there's wonderful music from that era that would have been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing says "England" like Elgar -- and of course, Mozart is transcendent. 

And the number of people who would notice that it's not historically correct is insignificant.  But it made me sit up, that's for sure.

Suzanne
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:24:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:19:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKFEM5B7S91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
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Suzanne wrote:

> Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there she goes again!)...

> In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate Blanchette, it was
>startling to hear music from Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what)
>at the moment when she transformed herself from Elizabeth the person to Queen
>Elizabeth the icon.  Sure there's wonderful music from that era that would have
>been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing says "England" like Elgar -- and of
>course, Mozart is transcendent.

> And the number of people who would notice that it's not historically correct
> is insignificant.  But it made me sit up, that's for sure.

I don't recall that the music in question was presented as happening in the
world of the film; it was on the soundtrack, so it could just as well have 
been music composed in 2001.

If you start to list the historical inaccuracies in _Elizabeth_ (the film,
not Colin Hume's beautiful dance), from assigning people the wrong religions
for dramatic effect to killing off people who actually lived, in order of 
damage done to people's understanding of history, you'll need to sharpen your
pencil once or twice before you get to the soundtrack.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:33:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:33:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410223323.34036.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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-- from the soundtrack -- 
Night of the Long Knives [Byrd: Domine Decundum Actum
Meum] 
Rondes I & VII [Susato: Dansereye] 
Nimrod [Elgar: Enigma Variations] 
Requiem: Introitus [Mozart: Requiem] 

So film composer David Hirschfelder at least
acknowledged his sources, jarring as half of them are!

(of course, the number of people who even could
recognize the Elgar and Mozart pieces is pretty
small).


--- SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com wrote:
> Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there
> she goes again!)...
> 
> In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate
> Blanchette, it was startling to hear music from
> Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what) at
> the moment when she transformed herself from
> Elizabeth the person to Queen Elizabeth the icon. 
> Sure there's wonderful music from that era that
> would have been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing
> says "England" like Elgar -- and of course, Mozart
> is transcendent. 
> 
> And the number of people who would notice that it's
> not historically correct is insignificant.  But it
> made me sit up, that's for sure.
> 
> Suzanne


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:08:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:06:21 -0400
From: Loretta Holz 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
These are the instructions we have--

A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk

It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.   
Loretta Holz
Warren, NJ
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:12:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:09:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Loretta --

> Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
> These are the instructions we have--

> A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk

> It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
> both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.

I called this a couple of times this February (big surprise) and just made
sure the minor sets were widely separated.  Worked fine.  Couples waiting
out at the ends need to stay awake.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:36:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:33:41 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030410162625.00b943a8-AT-popserver.panix.com>
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At 04:09 PM 4/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Loretta --
>
> > Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
> > These are the instructions we have--
>
> > A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk
>
> > It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
> > both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.

The Ones turn their backs on their original Twos and lead up to meet the 
Twos from the next minor set.  As Alan suggests, you need room between the 
minor sets, and couples coming in as Ones at the top are often disconcerted 
to find that their new Twos are facing down, ready to meet the next Ones in 
line.  Oops...
Hugs,
Sharon


>I called this a couple of times this February (big surprise) and just made
>sure the minor sets were widely separated.  Worked fine.  Couples waiting
>out at the ends need to stay awake.
>
>-- Alan
>
>--
>===============================================================================
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
>===============================================================================


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:00:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:46:21 -0500
From: Susan Burt 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I'm a newbie to this list, but I have to pipe up--"Clueless" is based 
on _Emma_, but "Bridget Jones" (the movie) is based on the book of 
the same name, which was loosely based on _Pride and Prejudice_.

Susan M. Burt


>I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes and dancing in 
>"A Knight's
>Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music, etc., in that 
>setting. And
>I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done in modern costumes and a
>modern time period. And I have been very entertained by "Clueless" 
>and "Bridget
>Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's _Emma_. It's just somewhat
>irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly historically accurate and
>many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But, it's just a movie, I know!
>
>Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)

-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761

309-888-2704

smburt-AT-ilstu.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:28:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:28:08 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mistaken identity
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my 
computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and 
Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin 
Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam 
Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad 
that you were paying attention, Susan!

Catie Condran Geist
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:42:52 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:29:10 -0500
From: Susan Burt 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mistaken identity
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--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)
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Not wishing to hijack the list into a discussion of Jane Austen-ish 
films (well, not wishing to hijack the list much),  there is only one 
drawback to the casting of Colin Firth as Mark Darcy in "Bridget 
Jones," and that is that in the sequel (the book), _Bridget Jones on 
the Edge of Reason_ (which is loosely based on _Persuasion_), Colin 
Firth is an actual character in the plot--and Mark Darcy remains! 
so, they'll never be able to do a movie of BJ on the Edge of Reason. 
Sad.

Thanks for the lovely welcome-to-the-list messages!

Susan Burt



>I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my
>computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and
>Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin
>Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam
>Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad
>that you were paying attention, Susan!
>
>Catie Condran Geist

-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761

309-888-2704

smburt-AT-ilstu.edu

--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


Re: Mistaken identity

Not wishing to hijack the list into a discussion of Jane
Austen-ish films (well, not wishing to hijack the list
much),  there is only one drawback to the casting of Colin
Firth as Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones," and that is that in
the sequel (the book), _Bridget Jones on the Edge of Reason_ (which
is loosely based on _Persuasion_), Colin Firth is an actual character
in the plot--and Mark Darcy remains!  so, they'll never be able
to do a movie of BJ on the Edge of Reason.  Sad. 





Thanks for the lovely welcome-to-the-list messages!





Susan Burt











I realized my mistake as I was driving
into town and I couldn't get back to my

computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely
based on _Pride and

Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant
that Colin

Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he
played Fitzwilliam

Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and
Prejudice." I'm glad

that you were paying attention, Susan!



Catie Condran Geist






-- 

O, wae upon you, Men o' State

That brethren rouse in deadly hate!

As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,

Sae may it on your heads return!



--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793



Susan Meredith Burt

602 Normal Avenue

Normal, IL 61761



309-888-2704



smburt-AT-ilstu.edu




--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:48:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:36:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Mistaken identity
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Catie wrote:

> I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my
> computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and
> Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin
> Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam
> Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad
> that you were paying attention, Susan!

And for some unknown reason he's playing a relative of the _Sense &
Sensibility_ family, a Henry Dashwood, in _What A Girl Wants_, which
is emphatically not based on a Jane Austen book.

(It's a remake of a Sandra Dee feature called "The Reluctant Debutante"; both
are based on a play by Douglas Home.)

That's as far off-topic as I'm willing to go on this.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:32:57 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:32:30 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hipness
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hi Victoria
Ouch, ouch, ouch.  I had no idea you were in the shop for
serious body work.  I hope you heal quickly and can get back
on the dance floor soon.  I'll see you out there when you're
back up and bouncing.  Take care.

Kalia

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:45:32 PST
Sender: