Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:28:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 19:28:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Musical introductions To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT thanks for the interesting discussion! when i started dancing ECD in new jersey, the local or perhaps regional standard introduction seemed to be one measure - two or three notes (depending on the meter) - from the piano, often outlining a chord (e.g., in the key of D, the intro would be high D, low D in 6/8 or 2/2; or high D, A, low D, in 3/2 etc.). i can't remember how waltz-time dances were introduced - quite possible with 2 to 4 bars of piano vamping. however, when bare necessities came to town, they would play a single long upbeat. both types of intro worked for me as a dancer - i don't recall any confusion. the callers probably helped by giving appropriate cues for the beginning of each dance. sometime in the early to mid-1990s (i think) the local/regional standard intro shifted to two notes from a melody instrument, no matter the meter. (so, in 3/2 or 3/4, the intro would be the last 2/3 of a measure, which took some getting used to). i believe gene murrow had a hand in persuading area musicians to adopt this practice. i continued to play 2- or 4-bar introductions from the end of the tune (or occasionally from the end of the A part) when playing solo for a demo team. when i'm playing in a band, for the few tunes where a 2-beat introduction seems insufficient or confusing, we try to remember to tell the caller what kind of intro we plan to play. the caller will often be less specific in relaying the information to the dancers: if i say it's a 4-bar intro, the caller may just call it a long intro. as a musician i find it easier to get the tempo right with a piece of the tune than with two beats, but i've had enough practice with two-beat intros now to be comfortable with them. i still like the longer melodic intros, though. as a dancer, i can adjust to whatever the band is doing if i know what to expect - and if the intro, of whatever sort, is done confidently and securely. i don't think there is one best way to start all EC dances - there will always be exceptions - but i think having a local or regional standard probably limits confusion. susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 21:11:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:04:57 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re:Musical introductions To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20030404.000457.-486365.7.gmurrow-AT-juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jon asked if I was listening, to which I reply "yes, with great interest!" With a good bit of experience as a dancer, a musician, a caller, and producer of recordings for use by ECD groups, I've found the following to be a completely reliable way of working (there are no doubt other ways): 1) Understand that the musicians in the band are an important part of the consortium that makes for a fun evening of dancing. Listen to what they have to say, and go with what they're used to and what works in their community. If they seek your guidance, and are happy to do whatever you as the caller wish, then you might suggest these ideas. 2) Have the band (or the CD or tape player) play the tune through at least once BEFORE teaching. Mary D. and others have commented on why this is important and useful-- it gives the dancers a sense of the tempo, mood, and phrasing; it gives the band a lick at learning or reviewing what might be a tricky bit of music (as a caller, I let/encourage them play it through twice if I sense that there's material that's posing some challenge); it helps the caller calibrate and review the figures; it confirms you've got the right track when using a recording. I usually have them play as the sets are forming. As dancers, I'm sure we've all been flustered by detailed teaching of a pattern when we have no clue as to the character of the dance (let alone tempo, meter, etc., etc.). 3) have one experienced player "line out" the melody as you teach the patterns, for the reasons that Cammy (and Bruce in his Scottish solo posting) described. This takes practice and coordination! Even seasoned musicians can get "off," and then dancers are learning figures to the wrong part of the tune, or there's too much dance left over after the music runs out. I usually review a set of hand signals with the lead player (start / stop / slow down / speed up / pause ) before doing this. When in doubt, better to doodle the tune/rhythm yourself (I have a few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling, or worse yet, singing, the tune, but that's another post). When possible a "merge" (as Cammy wrote) into the actual dance (or a "rolling start" as we say 'round here) can be ideal. But be sure the dance community is used to that... I've been caught short when a crowd of experienced dancers was bewildered that "we had started" when they were expecting to be told "OK, return to your home place" and half of them had begun to do so! 4) start the tune with a 2-note, _in-tempo_ introduction, and be sure to tell the dancers that's what you do. It's the best overall choice in my opinion and experience (with a few exceptions noted below) for many, many reasons: a) The English words "two notes" is absolutely clear to the dancers, whereas "the last B music" or "a phrase" or "two bars" etc. is absolutely meaningless to most. They will know what to listen for. b) The aural sensation of two notes is absolutely clear to the dancers, whereas a snippet of a tune most often is not. It's two beats (two footfalls), and go! It correlates to the sequence we all learned as children: "ready, set, Go" which lurks in our subconscious still [Ready, Steady, Go for the Anglo's] c) It conveys the tempo accurately, whereas one note usually does not. This assumes that the dancers have already heard the entire tune played at tempo, and have learned the figures with doodling or a melody line. Even when they haven't (as in "no talk-through no walk-through" sequences), I find that when the correct two notes (see below) are played clearly and emphatically, there is not a problem. Some musicians can give the one note an intermediate pulse that serves the same purpose (I think of Earl Gaddis & the BN's), but why not just play the 2 flippin' notes? d) It works in duple and triple meters just fine. For triple, the band plays beats 2 and 3. A note = a footfall. For "Salutation," the triple-time (3/2) tune in A major Jon cited, play a half-note C#, then a half-note D, _in tempo_, leading to the downbeat E. Works every time. e) It avoids confusion in the band. If you say to the band "play a couple of bars" or "play the last B" you're inviting a discussion to break out, just at the moment you don't want one (the dancers are half-leaning forward, ready to dance!). Do you really mean 2 bars?... they're just long notes!!... maybe the last 4 bars, OK?!! The _whole_ last B?? (Fenterlarick and many others have double length "B's"... you want us to start in the middle? where is the middle?... no, it's over here...) Some bands who play together regularly already have the short intro worked out, and it can work fine (the "Roodiments of English" who played for the Binghamton ball rehearsal last weekend were such a band. Everyone, including the dancers, knew the drill. I went with what they were used to). But even "2-bar" regulars can get into discussions just when you want them to play. f) A phrase as an intro is often confusing. Speaking for myself, though I know most of these tunes by heart, and can associate the dance figures with the tunes, I find myself on edge when I hear a band play a "phrase" as an intro. Is this the beginning of the "B"? Is this the last 2 bars (sometimes it's the same note sequence!) Sometimes the "B" music is two phrases repeated exactly. Are they playing the 2nd one, or the whole "B"? Even Morris teams have been known to have a dancer or two start in the middle of the once-to-yourself!! That's why we invented the "This time!" call just before the start of the actual dancing. 5) The correct 2 notes are 2 notes in the key's scale sequence that lead to the first note of the tune. If a the tune starts on scale degree 1, it's usually 3-2-1, or 6-7-8(1). If it starts on 5 (the dominant), it's usually 3-4-5. If it's modal, you use the modal (pentatonic or whatever) scale. Musicians will know. 6) The exceptions are the tunes with weird intro's. "Good Man of Cambridge" works best with 3 sharp, short, A-minor chords, in tempo, before the twiddly upbeat. "Sally in Our Alley" works only if you let the dancers hear the introductory ornament, and point it out as such, OR forego the ornamented intro the first time through and use a standard 2-note intro into the downbeat. Others are "Levi Jackson Rag," "Bryon's Boutade" and similar tunes with written-in introductions. I'm sure I've left stuff out, but that's what I've got off the top of my head... Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 04:06:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 07:06:07 -0500 From: Tom Vincent Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Left, right...&c. To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001b01c2faa2$933623c0$6ec35244-AT-Hansea> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20030403145102.21655.qmail-AT-web20602.mail.yahoo.com> <3E8CB4E7.6070204-AT-sympatico.ca> Greetings - Torbin, you came to a conclusion without providing any historical evidence to support it, which was the whole point of my question: *Why* should 'The rule should be: Always start with the Right foot...'? Thanks! Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Torbin Zimmerman" To: Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 5:25 PM Subject: Re: Left, right...&c. > It seems there're two discussions going on: Is there a correct foot to > start each element of a country dance? and Should dancers be required to > start every figure on the same foot? > > We can agree on a standard for English country dancers to use when it > makes no difference, e.g. when starting Up a Double; but that doesn't > automatically answer the other question. > > I'm surprised the second question is causing so much trouble; I suspect > much of it stems from the question's being implicit. Every contributor > here is an experienced dancer and has the capacity to feel when there is > not a free choice of foot because one alternative is smoother, more > graceful, or more expressive of the music than the other. (I bet even > those advocating a standard foot don't always dance that way.) A few > instances have been discussed, e.g. in Graham's remarks about casting. > > I've always been taught, and try to teach others, that there is always a > best foot to start a figure, but which it is depends on figure, the > music, and sometimes the dancer's position in the set or the preceding > or following figure. Part of the joy of dancing, for me, is getting to > that point where the most elegant, graceful way to move is natural and > decisive. > > The rule should be: Always start with the Right foot when either will > do; at all other times, start in the best way for that moment in the > dance. If you're unsure what the best way is, that's an opportunity to > work on your dancing. > > Torbin Zimmerman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 07:54:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 From: Robin Hayden Subject: let's hear it To: ecd list Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3E8DAAA1.5040806-AT-earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ)" --Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune." Robin "Look, Ma! I can sing Easter Morn" Hayden --Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words about inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

Robin "Look, Ma! I can sing Easter Morn" Hayden






--Boundary_(ID_GUsj51cipLl8k4hULOhYkQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:04:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:04:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Gene Murrow wrote:

> 5) The correct 2 notes are 2 notes in the key's scale sequence that lead
> to the first note of the tune.  If a the tune starts on scale degree 1,
> it's usually 3-2-1, or 6-7-8(1).  If it starts on 5 (the dominant), it's
> usually 3-4-5.  If it's modal, you use the modal (pentatonic or whatever)
> scale. Musicians will know.

wish i'd had this summary when i was starting to learn to play 2-note
intros!

besides the above, i sometimes play 5-7-8(1) for a melody that begins on
the tonic.

i've played with a lot of musicians to whom it was not obvious which 2
notes to use as an intro; so gene's advice to go with what the musicians
*are* used to is well taken.

susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 08:30:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:30:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2003, Gene Murrow wrote:

> It's two beats (two footfalls), and go!  It correlates to the sequence
> we all learned as children: "ready, set, Go" which lurks in our
> subconscious still [Ready, Steady, Go for the Anglo's]

i think SCD teachers often use "ready, and" as a two-beat verbal intro in
class settings.  it worked well for me the other day for my first attempt
at teaching some middle-school kids morris dancing.  (oops, wrong list...)

> For "Salutation," the triple-time (3/2) tune in A major Jon cited, play
> a half-note C#, then a half-note D, _in tempo_, leading to the downbeat
> E.  Works every time.

this may work, but i find it musically very unsatisfying - it bothers me
to leave out the pickup notes the first time.  i don't have an ideal
solution; this is a case where i would personally rather agree with the
caller on a longer intro and make sure s/he can give the dancers a cue at
the right time.

> "B"?  Even Morris teams have been known to have a dancer or two start in
> the middle of the once-to-yourself!!   That's why we invented the "This
> time!" call just before the start of the actual dancing.

if i forget to think (or to watch the dancers) while playing for a morris
dance, i will often forget that the once-to-yourself isn't the first A
part of the dance, and i'll arrive at the B part before the dancers do,
then scramble to find, say, bar 3 of the A2...  so i would be very
reluctant to use a full A part as an ECD intro.

- susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:16:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:16:04 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Thanks, Gene for that excellent run-down. There are a few points that came
to mind.

For us the caller is part of the band. All this stuff about working out
hand signals etc... is irrelevant if the caller is the one who is playing.
I would encourage all callers to learn to play an instrument and to use it
as a teaching tool. As my own playing can testify, you do not have to be
any expert so long as you can catch the energy and rhythm of the dance.

All the problems in 4 seemed to be under the assumption that the dance has
been learned without the tune. If the figures have been learned as an
extension of the music (and vice versa) then when the caller says, for
example, "the band will play the circle half and cast before we start"
neither the dancers nor the musicians should be clueless as to what is
coming. If you use language such as "for the last phrase of music the 1s do
an elegant eight step cast down with the twos moving up" and walk it
through with music, then the announcement that "the band will play the last
phrase before we start" should mean SOMETHING to the dancers.

I don't see anything wrong with "this time" if it is helpful except that I
prefer to urge people to "honor your partner" about 2 bars prior to the
start of the dancing. I particularly do this when I don't know how big an
intro the band will play until they play it (e.g., when calling with a
different band). Come to think of it, I can't ever remember just letting
the dancers start when the melody gets around to the beginning - I always
say something to make sure no one is asleep.

As I said before, I may be slow or I may be overly grateful to my partner
for the opportunity to dance, but I usually find neither one nor even two
notes a sufficient length of time for me to properly acknowledge my partner
and also to be at full speed as the dance starts. I always feel a little
like I have short-changed my partner or like a stick that has been tossed
into a stream where I bob and lurch a while before I can integrate my
movement with the stream.

Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:24:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:24:32 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "New England" thing. In nearly 30
years we have never had piano for English. I always thought it was a
Boston/New York thing - or maybe CDSS tradition from Phil Merill and
before?
CK


                                                                                                                     
                      DavBarnert-AT-aol.com                                                                             
                      Sent by:                         To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                      
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        cc:                                                           
                      TANFORD.EDU                      Subject:  Re: Accordionists..play piano                       
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     
                      03-Apr-2003 06:20 PM                                                                           
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                          
                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                     




Jon wrote:

 >What's up with the insistence on a piano, anyway?

Gary wrote:

 >Our fiddler was born and raised in New England...

Even before I saw Gary's response, I was thinking "It's a New
England thing." Boston has a long history in the piano trade, and
early in our country's history, every hall in New England that
could be danced in (grange halls and whatever) had a piano.

Jon, again:

 >Personally, I've always wanted to play ECD music with a string
 >quartet. But if you think pianists are thin on the ground, try
 >looking for cellists.

Yo.

For several years, I was the cellist in the "Dance Flurry String
Quartet." We played one gig every year, at the Flurry in Saratoga
Springs in February. Waltzes, contradances, and schottisches. Alas,
no ECD.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 09:37:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 12:14:38 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: let's hear it
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030404.122349.-85063.88.dcculb-AT-juno.com>
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On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 Robin Hayden
 writes:
> OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words 
> about 
> inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your 
> alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

I don't see anything wrong with singing the tune, as long as the caller
really does know how to sing the tune. However, when they can't, they
should avoid it at all costs to avoid confusion. (I have several
not-so-fond memories of callers singing what they thought was the tune of
a dance in duple time when the dance itself was in 6/8, for example.)

Dawn Culbertson

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Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:11:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 11:11:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: my $.02
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I certainly concur with a dry-run of an A section
before the instruction begins--but often there is such
a hubbub on the floor that the benefit is lost. "Can
you play us the tune?" "I did."
A two-note introduction is very good--but I have
happened upon musicians who can't or won't go along,
and my inclination to impose an iron will on people
I'd like to be on speaking terms with later is nil. In
which case, we all muddle through.
I myself view "The Salutation" and "Sally in our
Alley" as parallel cases--i.e., I tell the dancers,
"The tune begins with a pickup--would one of you
[gesticulating wildly at band] play that for us
now?--so you'll hear that, then begin to move."
Singing: I am of mixed minds here. There is good
precedent for singing in Scottish or Scandinavian, but
rather little for ECD. That is, there's next-to-no
eyewitness record of ECD in progress, but even so I
have yet to hear of any where a diarist said, "& thn
Mistrisse Santlow sang & we all did dance." Plus,
sound systems are rarely calibrated to flatter a band,
a speaking voice, and a singing voice--so if the
caller begins to warble or hands the microphone to
Harry Connick Jr., the results are not optimal. Even
more awkward: the dancers will be distracted by the
*words*, not even so much because they're straining to
understand ("was that 'please' or 'pleas'?") as
because they have been trained to hear the words as
commands, and they may begin to short-circuit with
words for pleasure & not instruction. 
     

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 12:02:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2003 15:01:39 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: my $.02
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References: <20030404191144.37912.qmail-AT-web20606.mail.yahoo.com>

Graham Christian wrote:

>I certainly concur with a dry-run of an A section
>before the instruction begins--but often there is such
>a hubbub on the floor that the benefit is lost. "Can
>you play us the tune?" "I did."

We can either look for an optimal lull in the hubbub (giving folks a 
chance to visit first... 'tis a social occasion, after all), or seek 
to gain the dancers' attention before beginning.  Otherwise, the 
essential play-through can indeed be pointless.

>Singing:
>... Even more awkward: the dancers will be distracted...
>... and they may begin to short-circuit with words for pleasure
>& not instruction.

I have found this to be true, even when the singer is excellent and 
professional.  The only time singing for dance works for me is in the 
unchoreographed waltz, where sung words can add to pleasure, without 
distraction.

Most of the time, however, I've found that dance leaders who sing 
(unlike professional singers who are invited to occasionally sing 
along) set my teeth on edge.  For one thing, voice mics are not often 
well suited to singing.  Also, for blessing or curse, i have a very 
sensitive ear, and harsh tones, or notes which are 1/8 tone off the 
instrumental accompaniment are like painful miniature chainsaws.  My 
personal $.02: please don't.

Doodling a dance for the walk-through, in the absence of a willing 
musician, may be necessary and helpful.  That's fine.  But if asked 
respectfully, most musicians seem willing to play a simple tune 
accompaniment.  Or perhaps I've just been very fortunate?

So it goes.

Yrs tunefully, Linda
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:36:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 00:37:20 -0700
From: Ric Goldman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Join us on May Day morning to dance up the sun (San Francisco Bay Area)
To: Bay Area Community Dance , List - ECD PLAYFORD , Pryanksters 
Message-ID: 
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Yes folks, it's that time again.  All over the Bay Area, local Morris
dancers will join with other Morris teams all around the world, gathering
in darkness before dawn with their ribbons, bells, streamers, baldrics,
instruments, pomp, circumstance, and all around good cheer to wake and
dance up the sun on May Day morning, cajoling it to rise for another year.
You too can be part of the tradition and part of the magic of English
Morris dancing, a legacy thought to be hundreds of years old.  Join us
throughout the land in this wonderful ritual celebration.  Oh, and it's
free!

This really works!  The sun DOES come up, doesn't it?  Well now you know
why!  :-)

There are lots of teams and celebrations all thru the San Francisco Bay
Area and beyond.  For the latest information on schedule, details, maps to
the local May Day morning near you, and what this is all about, please see
the webpage at http://rgoldman.org/morris/mayday.htm or
http://shortcut.to/mayday

Some of these celebrations feature teams associated with the Bay Area
Country Dance Society (BACDS).  For more info on BACDS see their website
at http://www.bacds.org.

Hope to see you there...

Thanx, Ric Goldman
Faultline Morris

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 22:42:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:50:50 -0700
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dolmetsch Conference
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hi all,

I'm just plowing through e-mail on the list after neglecting it post -op (I 
had a total hip replacement a month ago)  and just wanted to issue a 
belated thank you to Colin Hume for the extensive comments on the Dolmetch 
conference.  I haven't been out of the house (except to see doctors and 
have more medical tests)  for the past six weeks, so a visit to the 
conference through your very thorough notes on it, was a real treat.

Colin, it was lovely of you to take the time to write up such detailed 
notes!   It gave me a flavor of what went on-- the variety of subjects, the 
particular slants of the various presenters.  There is lots to ponder while 
hanging out waiting for bone to grow into my new hip.  I was  especially 
interested in the Newcastle reconstruction, and in the connection between 
fencing and dance notation.

I saw that disclaimer you wrote at the beginning, so ( in case you get flak 
from others for sharing your personal views as well as the bare facts,) I'd 
like to let you know that I appreciate hearing your own slant on the 
presenters' papers.  In fact I couldn't imagine it otherwise, with you 
having done so much research and reconstruction yourself.

Regards, Victoria





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 23:49:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030408074900.25474.qmail-AT-web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
> 
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 00:03:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 01:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Diane Schmit  wrote:
> (Just a thought, but I wonder if this is a result of the dances in
> this area starting as a mix of English, squares & contras in the
> same evenings, or at the same venue on alternate weeks, with the
> various musicians playing for both.... so there was a carry over
> from the square and contra intros to ECD intros? People like Bob
> Dalsemer, Steve Hickman, Laurie Andres may know the answer to
that.)

Looking back to when I started dancing, most places did not have live
music, and I seem to remember that the recordings that were available
usually had intros longer an upbeat.> My personal feeling on the one
note intros is that somehow, they
> aren't as satisfying to me. (But, I've learned to live with them
> when we have out of town guest musicians, or I go out of town to
> dance.)

One of the frustrations that we have in Nordlys is that much of the
recorded Scandinavian music doesn't even have an upbeat. It just
starts at the beginning of the tune. It makes for sloppy starts in
performances. This year, for the first time, we have had a band on a
few occasions. 

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 05:47:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:47:16 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I would add to what Andy says about performance, that I have seen Morris
dancers in which they have been doing several different patterns of
footwork and yet the side had a unity of movement such that they seemed in
perfect synchrony. (I believe I have seen Bampton done this way with some
dancers are doing the left foot single steps while others are doing right
foot double steps, some starting with the half caper while others are doing
the foot-together jump).

In view of the above, when teaching morris, ECD, etc... I emphasize the
energy and spirit of movement more than the details as in which foot to
use, at least in the first pass where I am just getting dancers to "feel"
the joy of dancing it. More than half the time, dancers will work out the
most sensible footwork in the process without giving conscious thought to
it. Once they have it, I work on smoothing the awkward bits and this is
where it often happens that a dancer will say - "But it feels awkward to
set to the right at this point" and you may resolve that by suggesting they
use the right foot to start the turn preceding (just an example). Perhaps
even more important than training dancers to start with a particular foot,
is to get them so practised at the fudgings (mentioned in previous Emails
as "double step" or "catch" step) that they can do this without thinking
anything more than "I want set to the right next."

Lest you think that I am consistent, I have sometimes found that newer
dancers feel empowered by knowing which foot they should be on and you
can't even get them to begin learning the figure until you tell them how to
start and so I do!
Cammy



                                                                                                                                       
                      Andy Peterson                                                                                                    
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: Left or Right?                                                    
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                      08-Apr-2003 03:49 AM                                                                                             
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
>
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 08:34:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:36:47 +0100
From: trev 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003001c2fded$344663e0$1c3c0751-AT-trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 

Do your pianists bring their piano with them?

One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
country they  are playing in.
Does the same thing happen over in US?

Trev

>
> I wouldn't go so far as to say it is a "New England" thing. In nearly
30
> years we have never had piano for English. I always thought it was a
> Boston/New York thing - or maybe CDSS tradition from Phil Merill and
> before?
> CK
>




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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:22:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 12:21:09 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002e01c2fdf3$3f936620$a06a550c-AT-paulstam>
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<>

Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
into barroom jangle in a short time.

<>

Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 09:56:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 13:56:39 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright around. I needed one for
my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I put large, easy rolling
wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it would be useful (a
block-party for example) I would strap it onto a flatbed trailer that had
enough room for the whole band and we would just park the trailer where we
wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up the sound gear if
necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to rock quite a bit if the
piano player was too animated.
CK



                                                                                                                                       
                      Paul Stamler                                                                                                     
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: piano?                                                            
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       
                      08-Apr-2003 01:21 PM                                                                                             
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                       




<>

Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
into barroom jangle in a short time.

<>

Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.

Peace,
Paul






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:11:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030408181119.43276.qmail-AT-web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
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We have a guy in the area that travels with his own
harpsichord.  It was really beautiful for our New
Years Eve Ball in old Newcastle, Delaware.

Tom

--- Campbell Kaynor 
wrote:
> 
> In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright
> around. I needed one for
> my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I
> put large, easy rolling
> wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it
> would be useful (a
> block-party for example) I would strap it onto a
> flatbed trailer that had
> enough room for the whole band and we would just
> park the trailer where we
> wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up
> the sound gear if
> necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to
> rock quite a bit if the
> piano player was too animated.
> CK



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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:13:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 14:15:02 -0400
From: Torbin Zimmerman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano-toting
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9311A6.6020202-AT-sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 

Rock 'n' roll!

Torbin

Campbell Kaynor wrote:

>In Amherst MA, (USA) I used to cart an old upright around. I needed one for
>my Monday night contras and this was a freebee. I put large, easy rolling
>wheels on it and whenever I had an occasion where it would be useful (a
>block-party for example) I would strap it onto a flatbed trailer that had
>enough room for the whole band and we would just park the trailer where we
>wanted the band, open up the folding chairs, set up the sound gear if
>necessary, and play. I remember the trailer used to rock quite a bit if the
>piano player was too animated.
>CK
>
>
>
>                                                                                                                                       
>                      Paul Stamler                                                                                                     
>                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                        
>                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                             
>                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: piano?                                                            
>                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                      
>                                                                                                                                       
>                                                                                                                                       
>                      08-Apr-2003 01:21 PM                                                                                             
>                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                            
>                                                                                                                                       
>                                                                                                                                       
>
>
>
>
><
>One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
>their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
>country they  are playing in.>>
>
>Good God -- one of them must be a piano tuner, else the thing would turn
>into barroom jangle in a short time.
>
><>
>
>Only with electronic pianos. And not always then.
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 10:22:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 11:21:49 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References:  <003001c2fded$344663e0$1c3c0751-AT-trevormo>

At 5:36 PM +0100, on 4/8/03, trev wrote:
>Do your pianists bring their piano with them?
>
>One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always bring
>their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever part of the
>country they  are playing in.
>Does the same thing happen over in US?

If this had been sent exactly one week earlier, I'm not sure I would 
have believed it!
-- 
Peace,
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 17:32:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: 
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:31:50 +1000
From: "Garden, John (DPL)" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Left or Right?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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For all this discussion of left or right foot start- has anyone yet c=
onsidered the importance of alternation when it came to footwork in e=
arly-mid 17th century dance? Alternation is certainly central to the =
dance aesthetic/language of the day (and indeed of the preceding cent=
ury) when it comes to figures (side one shoulder then side the other,=
 arm one way then the other etc)... and I believe it may have been eq=
ually important (to the accomplished dancer of the day at least) with=
 respect to foot work. Indeed, it helps make sense of a lot of the re=
petition and enables you to dance with uninterupted double steps thro=
ughout (with no extra steps or weight change). For example, you can o=
pen a dance such as 'Grimstock' with a l.f.double up, retire with r.f=
.double, set left and right, then turn single with l.f.double over th=
e l.sh., ready to repeat all the above starting with a r.f.double up,=
 left back, set right and left, then turn single over the r.sh. The f=
ormula is particularly useful in siding and arming, as you end up alw=
ays starting these figures with the more conventient outside foot - s=
tart your r.sh. (into line) siding with l.f., back r.f., set l&r, tur=
n single over l.sh., then start your l.sh. siding with your r.f., bac=
k l.f, set r&l, turn single with a double over r.sh. Similarly for ar=
ming. Similarly for when the opening doubles are to be performed in a=
 group circle to the left (as in Gathering Peascods). Similarly also =
for within some figures (e.g. if in the final chain of Dargeson you t=
ake a l.f.double when pulling past on the r.h. and a r.f. double when=
 pulling past on the l.f., you have the satisfaction of starting each=
 passing figure with the outside foot - the same principle as that wh=
ich can work for the chorus figures in most situations). The principl=
e can hold for many early Playford dances - or at least parts of many=
 dances (for example, does not work perfectly for the uninterupted pa=
ir of up&back a double in Nonesuch, but will work for the subsequent =
pair of setting & turn single)- and I think adds a lot to dancer sati=
sfaction when participating in these early dances.  The complementing=
 of alternation in figure direction with alternation in footwork is n=
ot so easily achieved using the dominating MECD convention of an unin=
terupted walking step - no matter with which foot you choose to start=
. This is not to say I myself always recommend doubles and alternatio=
n over an easy walking step - perhaps even one starting r.f. For me i=
t depends on context - an individual dance's period and figures, the =
dancer's expectations, the nature of the occasion (whether its a conn=
oisseurs early dance workshop or a fun social night) etc, etc. As alw=
ays, horses for courses and let a thousand flowers bloom (to mix my m=
etaphors!).=20
John Garden
www.earthlydelights.com.au

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Andy Peterson [mailto:lyrlsbro-AT-yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 5:49 PM
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Left or Right?


--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> I keep getting conflicting information about this
> somewhat controversial topic, so I thought I'd see if
> there are definitive historical sources supporting one
> side or the other (or neither, or both!):
>=20
> When doing any forward motion (double up and back,
> siding, etc.), should one start with the left foot or
> the right?  When setting, to the left first or to the
> right?

When I was learning to dance 35+ years ago, the question of which
foot to be on was most often raised by people experienced in
International. Most teachers at that time taught that it doesn't
really matter which foot you start on unless you need to have the
easy foot free for such things as setting, turn single, Sharp's
siding... If you know you need a certain foot free at the beginning
of a figure, you do a quick double step before hand if necessary.

Of course, if performing having matching footwork looks better, but I
can remember watching a video taken of a performance and being very
aware that things I knew happened inside the set weren't really
obvious when you had the audience's view of the entirety. Sometimes I
felt that we picked things apart too much in rehearsals, yet now I
get frustrated when we don't.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2003 18:15:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: 
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 11:14:45 +1000
From: "Garden, John (DPL)" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: let's hear it
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

For my 2c worth, although once the music starts I see little need to =
turn the evening into a square dance by singing my calls, although I'=
d probably not lilt my words on the first walk through, on a second w=
alk through before music starts, and although I'm not sure of the mea=
ning of 'doodling' (as for an Australian that is simply something you=
 do with a pen and paper), I am probably guilty of echoing/forshadowi=
ng/tracing the tune in my prompting. I find it a very efficient way t=
o link the dancing to the music (quiet an important I'm sure all woul=
d agree) and feel I could not lead a walk through half as effectively=
 if I didn't have the up-coming tune in mind while doing so and didn'=
t let my words ride out on the tune occasionally. I'm not sure that w=
e should need to be too defensive about this, however, as people have=
 for millenium danced to singing (and still do in more traditional pa=
rts of Europe). Indeed, feeling it was something missing from our own=
 presentday country dance tradition, I spent a lot of the last couple=
 of years writing dances which would fit 64 common Christmas Carols (=
the result many know is December 2002 release 'The Christmas Carol Da=
nce Book') in the hope that people might be able to sing while they d=
ance, or dance to nothing but singing - and indeed, at the many works=
hops at which we tested this material (and for which we didn't always=
 have playing musicians- it just didn't seem necessary) participants =
seemed to have absolutely no problem either following my call sung/ut=
tered to a carol melody, or, when the call seemed unnecessary, just d=
ancing to their own singing of the carol. Dancers seemed to only have=
 had their pleasure enhanced when our band in presenting this materia=
l at evening dances or balls has been joined on stage by singers - ev=
en a choir. So, let's hear it!
John Garden
www.earthlydelights.com.au

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Dawn C. Culbertson [mailto:dcculb-AT-juno.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 3:15 AM
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: let's hear it

On Fri, 04 Apr 2003 10:54:09 -0500 Robin Hayden
 writes:
> OK, Gene, I'll bite: give us your "few million well chosen words=
=20
> about=20
> inappropriate methods of doodling," and please elaborate on your=
=20
> alarming aside, "or worse yet, singing, the tune."

I don't see anything wrong with singing the tune, as long as the call=
er
really does know how to sing the tune. However, when they can't, they
should avoid it at all costs to avoid confusion. (I have several
not-so-fond memories of callers singing what they thought was the tun=
e of
a dance in duple time when the dance itself was in 6/8, for example.)

Dawn Culbertson

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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:31:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:27 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001b01c2ff09$49914180$4021bc3f-AT-g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Trevor wrote:
> In Scottish it's always a chord (or sometimes 2 chords if some couples
> have to change sides) - but then you all already dancing before you know
> the tempo. (Can be a bit embarrassing if you start dancing a reel and the
> band  plays a strathspey!)

It should be noted that at an SCD party, dancers are supposed to wait for
the band to play 8 bars of music before they form sets.  That means that the
dancers, having heard a bit of the tune, will know whether it's quicktime or
strathspey and exactly what the tempo is.   During the chord all that the
dancers need think about is the bow or curtsey (except for the first couple,
who are often mouthing to each other "*how* does it start??!!")

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:31:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:32 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Susie Lorand wrote:
 
> i think SCD teachers often use "ready, and" as a two-beat verbal intro in
> class settings. 


(Ahem.....)
Not *often*.  *Always*.......

Pat
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:32:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:28 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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What she (Mary Devlin) said.  Perfect.  The only thing I'd add is that the
phrase-length introduction also allows time for bows and curtseys, a
practice that was common when I learned ECD in the mid-80s in the
Washington, D.C., area.  I mourn the absence of this practice in most groups
nowadays.

Pat

>
> I'll chime in from the dancer / caller perspective.  My very strong
> preference is for the phrase approach as Jon suggests.
>
> There is simply not enough information in a one or two note
> pick-up for most
> people. [snip to end]


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 19:32:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 22:31:30 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Diane Schmit wrote (about the one-phrase intro):

> That is the norm in the Baltimore/DC area, what I first learned to dance
> to, and as a dancer, it is my preferred. But, it seems that most other
> places on the east coast, it is a single note or chord.

Williamsburg, Richmond, Staunton, and various smaller groups in this part of
Virginia use the phrase-length introduction, during which time partners
honor each other.  Charlottesville, where Howard and I dance now, allows the
caller or the musicians to decide on the introduction.  Honors are not
given.

Pat



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 04:26:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:21:01 +0100
From: trev 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004101c2ff54$9869c700$ee350751-AT-trevormo>
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References: <001b01c2ff09$49914180$4021bc3f-AT-g9tfz>



> Trevor wrote:
> > In Scottish it's always a chord (or sometimes 2 chords if some
couples
> > have to change sides) - but then you all already dancing before you
know
> > the tempo. (Can be a bit embarrassing if you start dancing a reel
and the
> > band  plays a strathspey!)
>

And Pat wrote:
> It should be noted that at an SCD party, dancers are supposed to wait
for
> the band to play 8 bars of music before they form sets.  That means
that the
> dancers, having heard a bit of the tune, will know whether it's
quicktime or
> strathspey and exactly what the tempo is.   During the chord all that
the
> dancers need think about is the bow or curtsey (except for the first
couple,
> who are often mouthing to each other "*how* does it start??!!")
>

And I reply (just to be pedantic!)
Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.  Back
to the original statement that you do not always know the tempo, or may
have forgotten!

Trev


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 05:19:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:20 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200304101219.NAA30224-AT-galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Thursday, April 10, 2003 at 12:21:01 PM, Trev wrote:

> > And I reply (just to be pedantic!)
> Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
> playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
> dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.

Unless of course you are part of the growing zesty contra scene here where we are encouraging people to form up the next set without waiting for band or MC!

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk



--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:18:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:18:19 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ecd-list 
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For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark Hall of Fame adaptation of 
"Return of the Native" last night.  I can now report, based on Hallmark's 
extensive research into dance styles in English villages of the 1870's, 
that dancing in that period consisted almost exclusively of arming.  Lots 
of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and skipping around in 
circles, followed by changing partners, linking elbows with the new 
partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one point Eustacia (spunky but 
tragically self-centered heroine, played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) and Mr. 
Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero, played by some random 
hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might have been a polka 
except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than ballroom position, 
after which he comments to her that "to the others, dance is a form of 
exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably refers to the fact that 
she knows how to do something other than arming.

Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for historical accuracy, but they 
might have just picked up the phone and called somebody and asked what the 
dances were supposed to look like.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:28:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:27:38 -0400
From: C 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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Jon -- That was one of the most entertaining posts I've ever read. :)
Thank you!! -- Cara :)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Berger
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:18 AM
To: ecd-list
Subject: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark


For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark Hall of Fame adaptation
of 
"Return of the Native" last night.  I can now report, based on
Hallmark's 
extensive research into dance styles in English villages of the 1870's, 
that dancing in that period consisted almost exclusively of arming.
Lots 
of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and skipping around in 
circles, followed by changing partners, linking elbows with the new 
partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one point Eustacia (spunky
but 
tragically self-centered heroine, played by Catherine Zeta-Jones) and
Mr. 
Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero, played by some
random 
hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might have been a polka 
except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than ballroom position, 
after which he comments to her that "to the others, dance is a form of 
exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably refers to the fact
that 
she knows how to do something other than arming.

Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for historical accuracy, but
they 
might have just picked up the phone and called somebody and asked what
the 
dances were supposed to look like.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:42:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:42:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410144229.47142.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As a recent article in the local paper said: "You
don't eat popcorn in history class."

--- Jon Berger  wrote:
> For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark
> Hall of Fame adaptation of 
> "Return of the Native" last night.  I can now
> report, based on Hallmark's 
> extensive research into dance styles in English
> villages of the 1870's, 
> that dancing in that period consisted almost
> exclusively of arming.  Lots 
> of arming.  Many happy peasants linking elbows and
> skipping around in 
> circles, followed by changing partners, linking
> elbows with the new 
> partner, and skipping around in circles.  At one
> point Eustacia (spunky but 
> tragically self-centered heroine, played by
> Catherine Zeta-Jones) and Mr. 
> Wildeve (smoldering but tragically flawed anti-hero,
> played by some random 
> hunk with five-o'clock shadow) break into what might
> have been a polka 
> except for being done in a bear-hug hold rather than
> ballroom position, 
> after which he comments to her that "to the others,
> dance is a form of 
> exercise, but to you it's an art."  This presumably
> refers to the fact that 
> she knows how to do something other than arming.
> 
> Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> historical accuracy, but they 
> might have just picked up the phone and called
> somebody and asked what the 
> dances were supposed to look like.
> 
> -- 
> Jon Berger
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
> 


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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:45:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410144508.78806.qmail-AT-web20605.mail.yahoo.com>
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> Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> historical accuracy, but they 
> might have just picked up the phone and called
> somebody and asked what the 
> dances were supposed to look like.
And one might have said the same about any number of
Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
about one-quarter right--gee, they're dancing a
recognizable dance, but 100 years too late, or in an
obviously-wrong reconstruction (Bentley twirl, &c.). 
I think it's fairly obvious why the dance portions go
so wrong. 
There is almost no overlap between theatre/film
producers and dance scholars (there's scarcely overlap
between dance scholars and *dancers*!).
Dance is not "important"--so, it's the very last
thought. All we have to convey is that the hero &
heroine get closer, right? so, they just kinda move
around, right? doesn't really matter what they're
doing, right?
I suspect, too, that often by this point they have
some sort of choreographer on retainer, who either
doesn't know anything about dancing pre-1880 (or
1980); or thinks s/he knows better than Kynaston or
Pecour; or thinks that old thing is very nice but
won't go over.   
Actors are not necessarily dancers of any kind. Miss
Zeta-Jones had to work very hard, we are told, to get
her well-paid gams to execute the choreography of
*Chicago*. Now imagine getting her to do, say, a
convincing minuet step (I am trying to picture her as
Millamant, but it's not working somehow), with its
lift, cross-rhythm timing, and forward carriage; or a
good balanc'e and bourr'ee for, say, "Dover Pier." Not
likely.
Dance--serious dance--is frightening and distracting.
Having your troupe do "The Triumph" (perfectly
suitable for Hardy!) is apt to make most of the
audience say, "Oh my Lord; what are they doing? are
they *dancing*?" The further back you go in time, the
harder it gets: Regency and Baroque dance--even social
dances--tend to look awfully twee to audiences
accustomed to the Funky Chicken.       

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 08:13:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:13:36 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD400GA6VMPVC-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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In reply to Trevor about the introductory chord for SCD:

If the dance is not being briefed, the dancers would have a program and it 
would tell on the program whether the dance is a jig, a reel, or a strathspey. 
If the MC or dance leader is briefing the dance before it is danced, that 
person would say the name of the dance and whether it is an 8X32 strathspey, a 
4X32 reel, a 6X32 jig, etc. So, if the dancers are listening, they will know 
what type of a dance it is. Also, when the band plays the chord, if it is a 
quick-time dance (jig or reel), the chord is much shorter than the long 
introductory chord for a strathspey. (But not many SCD enthusiasts notice that, 
I'm sure.)

There have been some amusing false-starts at SCD class over the years when the 
wrong dance has been cued up on the CD player (we don't have live music for 
class) and the dancers think it's a strathspey but music for a jig or a reel 
begins! And the opposite has happened when we think the dance is a jig or a 
reel and the slower strathspey music starts. 

For a skit at a Scottish Country Dance weekend, I got six women to dance a 
strathspey (Wind on Loch Fyne) to a Country and Western song (Trashy Women) and 
it worked perfectly as long as we put more lipstick and rouge on our faces 
during the eight-bar instrumental interlude in between the second and third 
time through the dance. (In the song "Trashy Women" the male singer sings 
about "Too much lipstick, too much rouge" and he likes his women "just a little 
on the trashy side.") It took some of the long-time Scottish Country dancers 
quite a while to figure out that we were actually dancing "Wind on Loch Fyne" 
and then they were even more amused. It's always fun to be able to laugh at 
yourself.

Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:08:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:08:27 +0000 (US/Eastern)
From: cedar-AT-interlog.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: cedar-AT-interlog.com
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> > Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> > historical accuracy, but they 
> > might have just picked up the phone and called
> > somebody and asked what the 
> > dances were supposed to look like.

> And one might have said the same about any number of
> Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
> almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
> about one-quarter right--gee, they're dancing a
> recognizable dance, but 100 years too late, or in an
> obviously-wrong reconstruction (Bentley twirl, &c.). 
> I think it's fairly obvious why the dance portions go
> so wrong. 

This is true for most .
Just ask a costumer about costumes, or a fencer about
fencing, or ...

It's too bad that they don't do a little more research and
apply it, but it's not totally surprising they don't spend the
time and money if it's not a personal interest.


Christine

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:35:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:34:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NOMAD 2003 announcement
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410173440.6757.qmail-AT-web13607.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I am pleased to share with you all that the dates for NOMAD 2003 have
been set.  The festival will take place November 15-16 in a new
location, the Hill Career Regional High School in NEW HAVEN, CT.  

This is a recently built (1998), beautifully designed magnet school,
and we are excited about the opportunities the new location will
provide. It is easily accessible not only from major highways, but by
public transit via the train as well, and it's convenient to downtown
New Haven, with a diversity of restaurants and local hotels.  Those
interested in a peek at the school can find it at:
http://www.nhps.net/about/schoolconstruction.asp

More details will be forthcoming as NOMAD approaches.  In the
meantime, we are now accepting applications to perform at NOMAD. The
deadline for first consideration is May 20.  Applications are
available on-line at:
http://www.geocities.com/nomadfest/

Barbara

=====
It is in the nature of tyranny to deride the will of the people as the voice of the mob, and to denounce the cry for freedom as the roar of anarchy.
 --William Safire,  1989

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:52:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:49:10 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: If All the World Were Paper, B part
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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"If All the World Were Paper", in Playford, has one part, played 12 
times. In Barnes, it has two parts, played 6 times. Anyone know where 
this B part came from?

The tune (8 bars only) is in the book for my recorder class, and the 
teacher asked me if I knew the dance. I said no, but next week I'll 
say yes, and invite the class to come over and play it for us the 
following week. (Both are on Tuesday, one after the other.)
-- 
Peace,
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:54:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:52:51 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: St. Louis Playford Ball April 26th
To: ecd list 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <006a01c2ff8a$020ef6a0$b974550c-AT-paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi folks:

The St. Louis English Country Dancers present their annual spring Playford
Ball on Saturday, April 26, 2003, from 7:30 - 11:00 pm, at First
Congregational Church, 6501 Wydown Blvd.. (It's in Clayton, just outside the
city limits.) Music will be provided by the Original Speckled Band, calling
by Peter Wollenberg, Missy Reisenleiter, Rebecca Taylor and Paul Stamler.
Participants are asked to bring snacks to share at the break, and fancy
dress (your definition!) is encouraged but not required. For more
information, directions, or possible places to stay, call or e-mail me (info
below) or check out our website (also below).

Dances will be chosen from the following:

The Accomplished Maid
Auretti's Dutch Skipper
Bar a Bar
Bare Necessities
Dover Pier
Dublin Bay
Elizabeth
Fandango
First Lady
Geud Man of Ballingigh
Good Man of Cambridge
Handel With Care
Heartease
John Tallis' Canon
Lovely Nancy
Mount Hills
Orleans Baffled
Sarah
Scotch Cap
Sellenger's Round
Softly Good Tummas
Yellow Stockings

A splendid time is guaranteed for all!

Peace,
Paul Stamler
314-664-9207
pstamler-AT-pobox.com
Website: http://members.aol.com/paradiseMO/english.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:37:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410183633.45685.qmail-AT-web13601.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Graham Christian  wrote:
> > Sheesh.  I'm not by any means a stickler for
> > historical accuracy, but they 
> > might have just picked up the phone and called
> > somebody and asked what the 
> > dances were supposed to look like.

> And one might have said the same about any number of
> Shakespeare, Austen, Hardy reconstructions; and it is
> almost as distressing to see the film-makers get it
> about one-quarter right--

I would take Shakespeare off that list, Unlike Hardy and Austen, his
works are not set in a realistic, historical context.  Even where
real locations and times are named, with the possible exception of
the history plays, they are not intended as realistic settings, but
rather as signifiers for the exotic, locales outside everyday
knowledge. A Verona of the imagination, for example.  Shakespeare's
realms are outside of time and history, which is why it can work so
well to transpose to different eras.  One of the best Shakespeare
plays I've ever seen was a "Much Ado About Nothing" set in the Harlem
Renaissance after World War I.  And the best "Twelfth Night" I've
seen was set in Italy of the early 1960s.

Unless of course one is trying to recreate as closely as possible a
Shakespeare play as it would have been performed in Elizabethan times
- in which case the first thing you have to do is exclude all women
from the cast.    

=====
It is in the nature of tyranny to deride the will of the people as the voice of the mob, and to denounce the cry for freedom as the roar of anarchy.
 --William Safire,  1989

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:56:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:55:33 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5D374B4E.4B590157.0078596C-AT-aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/10/2003 1:36:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, barbararuth-AT-rocketmail.com writes:

> - in which case the first thing you have to do is exclude 
> all women
> from the cast.

Well, the women characters can stay, it's the women actors who would have to go!

Suzanne // splitting hairs (or ends?)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:05:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:05:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410190535.68532.qmail-AT-web20604.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> I would take Shakespeare off that list, Unlike Hardy
> and Austen, his
> works are not set in a realistic, historical
> context.  Even where
> real locations and times are named, with the
> possible exception of
> the history plays, they are not intended as
> realistic settings, but
> rather as signifiers for the exotic, locales outside
> everyday
> knowledge. 
True enough, Barbara--but too often, no matter the
ostensible setting, the production features a dance
clearly intended to be a social dance or country
dance--and it's a mess, historically and kinetically
(back to All Arming All the Time). 
I wouldn't be such an awful stickler for Renaissance
dance in Shakespeare--but I like it better when it's
convincing *somehow*--as dance, if not as history.     

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 12:47:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:47:31 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD500MKF8B9PR-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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It's frustrating for my husband (a military history aficionado) to watch war 
movies because the uniforms are invariably incorrect in some way (wrong time 
period, wrong medals, etc.) or the way the actors/sailors are performing their 
duties on a ship or boat is incorrect, and there are many things that do not 
match up with the way things are really done or are supposed to be done. Even 
if the movie had an "expert" military consultant, many details are overlooked. 
So, it's the same problem with period movies that have dancing in them. The 
choreographer is hired to prepare the actors for the dance scenes and the 
dances end up being the choreographer's "vision" of how the dances looked, or 
how he/she wants the dances to appear in the movie.

Catie Condran Geist
Palm Bay, Florida
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:19:14 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Musical introductions
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000901c2ff9e$748cdee0$6350b341-AT-g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Trevor wrote:

> Over here, before forming sets we wait EITHER for the band to start
> playing the tune, OR for the MC to announce the next dance.  If the
> dance is announced, the band does not necessarily play the tune.

OHMYGOSH,  you're kidding! Alternate ways of doing something??!!??  In
SCD??!!  The mind reels from the shock.....("...must find The Manual....must
find The Manual....")

> Back
> to the original statement that you do not always know the tempo, or may
> have forgotten!

But you will know, from either cheat sheet, program, or MC, whether it's
quicktime or strathspey.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia
USA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:20:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:19:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410201954.11382.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
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Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*! 
Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!


--- catiegeist-AT-att.net wrote:
> It's frustrating for my husband (a military history
> aficionado) to watch war 
> movies because the uniforms are invariably incorrect
> in some way (wrong time 
> period, wrong medals, etc.) or the way the
> actors/sailors are performing their 
> duties on a ship or boat is incorrect, and there are
> many things that do not 
> match up with the way things are really done or are
> supposed to be done. Even 
> if the movie had an "expert" military consultant,
> many details are overlooked. 
> So, it's the same problem with period movies that
> have dancing in them. The 
> choreographer is hired to prepare the actors for the
> dance scenes and the 
> dances end up being the choreographer's "vision" of
> how the dances looked, or 
> how he/she wants the dances to appear in the movie.
> 
> Catie Condran Geist
> Palm Bay, Florida


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:37:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:36:54 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD5008BFALJDA-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes and dancing in "A Knight's 
Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music, etc., in that setting. And 
I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done in modern costumes and a 
modern time period. And I have been very entertained by "Clueless" and "Bridget 
Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's _Emma_. It's just somewhat 
irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly historically accurate and 
many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But, it's just a movie, I know!

Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:42:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:32:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKBTXVXTM927KTR-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Tom Vincent wrote:

> Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
> documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*!
> Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
> 'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!

That doesn't necessarily follow.  The usual objection, which I support,
is that a lot of people get their ideas of what people wore and how they
behaved from historical movies.  De facto, they serve an educational (or
mis-educational) function.  That's obviously not their primary purpose,
which is simply to entertain (and to make money thereby).  What annoys me
is when they could do it right without major extra effort and just blow it
off, and I can't tell why.

I quite enjoyed almost all of "A Knight's Tale", which made it extremely clear
from the get-go (joust audience sings along to a Queen tune) that it was some
kind of modern daydream about the Middle Ages, and nothing in it should be
taken seriously.  (I was rooting for the hero to end up with the attractive
armourer woman, not the vapid princess, so the ending annoyed me, and there
were a couple of places with excessive tearjerking for a lighthearted "don't
take me seriously", so I wasn't completely happy with the movie ... but I
enjoyed just about all the dance and music numbers.)

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:55:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2003 16:55:27 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left, right...&c.
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030404.074815.-1325153.0.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 03 Apr 2003 10:29:14 -0800 (PST) Tom Vincent
 writes:
> But *why* is the right foot the default?   
  

Because Mr. Sharp said so, that's why. Remember, he was standardizing
things for the benefit of school kids & teachers.  I learned from Genny
Shimer & May Gadd, everything was right-footed. I can't even recall that
there were any dances in the canon--remember it was much more limited
than today--that had a cloverleaf or mirror turn single: I can remember
my surprise when this concept was introduced for Rufty Tufty.

Allison (who is not really as old as she sometimes sounds--at least so
she likes to think) Thompson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:56:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:56:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410205607.17595.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Since when is a *movie* supposed to be historically
accurate?  Even Shakespeare's history plays weren't
historically accurate!  They're amusements, money
makers, interpretations.

On a Medieval dance list, I challenged anyone to come
up with a Medieval-themed movie that actually had
Medieval music in it.  I'm still waiting for a solid
answer to that one!  I think the best someone could
come up with was a bit of Gregorian Chant that briefly
played in 'Ladyhawk'!

'Period pieces' are beautiful, with their costuming,
music, archaic speech, even dancing, but they're
trying to tell a story that's relevant to today's
audience.

'Gangs of New York', 'The Hours' and 'The Pianist'
were all recently criticized for historical
inaccuracies, combining historical figures and so on: 
Well, yeah!  They weren't done by the Discovery
Channel!

I think doing SCD to C/W music sounds like a hoot! 
I've done Medieval dancing to the 'Mortal Combat'
soundtrack and there's a whole list somewhere of ECD
dances, pavans and bransles that can be done to some
modern music.  Very creative and energizing!  It's fun
to look at historical arts in a modern light *as well*
as appreciate them in their original historical
setting...but then, I'm a Heretic. :)


--- catiegeist-AT-att.net wrote:
> I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes
> and dancing in "A Knight's 
> Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music,
> etc., in that setting. And 
> I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done
> in modern costumes and a 
> modern time period. And I have been very entertained
> by "Clueless" and "Bridget 
> Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's
> _Emma_. It's just somewhat 
> irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly
> historically accurate and 
> many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But,
> it's just a movie, I know!
> 
> Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:05:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:05:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410210537.9987.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And I'd hate to think that Americans entire view of
Iraqi culture and history is based on the news
coverage from the past three weeks!

Actually, there was quite a bit in AKT that was
historically *inspired* (Chaucer and his bits, the
female armorer [no, really!], etc.), but it's really
the film-viewer's responsibility to understand the
difference between research and entertainment.

Anyway, I think this is a relatively recent
complaint...I don't remember seeing *any* e-mails in
1967 complaining about historical inaccuracies when
'Camelot' came out! ;>

--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing
 wrote:
> Tom Vincent wrote:
> 
> > Folks!  Lighten up!  They're *movies*, not
> > documentaries!  Enjoy them as *entertainment*!
> > Geez...I must be the only person who enjoyed the
> > 'Golden Years' dance in 'A Knight's Tale'!
> 
> That doesn't necessarily follow.  The usual
> objection, which I support,
> is that a lot of people get their ideas of what
> people wore and how they
> behaved from historical movies.  De facto, they
> serve an educational (or
> mis-educational) function.  That's obviously not
> their primary purpose,
> which is simply to entertain (and to make money
> thereby).  What annoys me
> is when they could do it right without major extra
> effort and just blow it
> off, and I can't tell why.
> 
> I quite enjoyed almost all of "A Knight's Tale",
> which made it extremely clear
> from the get-go (joust audience sings along to a
> Queen tune) that it was some
> kind of modern daydream about the Middle Ages, and
> nothing in it should be
> taken seriously.  (I was rooting for the hero to end
> up with the attractive
> armourer woman, not the vapid princess, so the
> ending annoyed me, and there
> were a couple of places with excessive tearjerking
> for a lighthearted "don't
> take me seriously", so I wasn't completely happy
> with the movie ... but I
> enjoyed just about all the dance and music numbers.)
> 
> -- Alan
> 
> -- 
>
===============================================================================
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or
> SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill
> Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
>
===============================================================================
> 


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:25:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:15:12 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: If All the World Were Paper, B part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030410.172207.-1870971.32.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think the second part was devised by Marshall Barron--she also added a
part to Broom, the Bonny, Bonny Broom. 

Allison Thompson



On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 10:49:10 -0700 "Gary D. Shapiro"
 writes:
> "If All the World Were Paper", in Playford, has one part, played 12 
> times. In Barnes, it has two parts, played 6 times. Anyone know 
> where 
> this B part came from?
> 
> The tune (8 bars only) is in the book for my recorder class, and the 
> 
> teacher asked me if I knew the dance. I said no, but next week I'll 
> say yes, and invite the class to come over and play it for us the 
> following week. (Both are on Tuesday, one after the other.)
> -- 
> Peace,
> Gary
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:06:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 14:52:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: Tom Vincent 
CC: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKERWVCYI91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
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Tom Vincent wrote:

> And I'd hate to think that Americans entire view of
> Iraqi culture and history is based on the news
> coverage from the past three weeks!

> Actually, there was quite a bit in AKT that was
> historically *inspired* (Chaucer and his bits, the
> female armorer [no, really!], etc.), but it's really
> the film-viewer's responsibility to understand the
> difference between research and entertainment.

> Anyway, I think this is a relatively recent
> complaint...I don't remember seeing *any* e-mails in
> 1967 complaining about historical inaccuracies when
> 'Camelot' came out! ;>

And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish 
dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?

(Which reminds me: I just saw a production of 'Paint Your Wagon' using the 1951
Broadway script and score (and leads who can actually sing and dance, unlike
the movie) and I basically had no historical problems with its portrayal of
the California Gold Rush and the people involved (also unlike the movie).  I
noticed that there were only six people in  the square dance, and that the
calls were possibly more like 1900 than 1850, but I didn't have a problem with
it.  I think it's really an excellent show and says, more clearly than any play
I can think of offhand, some particular things about the restless American
spirit.  And "Wandering Star", "We're On Our Way", "They Call the Wind Maria"
are all really good songs.  I sure didn't know until now that "I Talk to the
Trees" was (a) a decent song and (b) a rumba.)

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:09:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:08:51 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Messing with the dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Alan said:
...What annoys me
is when they could do it right without major extra effort and just blow it
off, and I can't tell why.

Alan,
I agree - it annoys me.
I have finally hypothesized (after seeing many of these oddities) that some
instructor of the actors has decided that they must leave their "artistic"
stamp on what is being done even if the usual way was just as good. The
original, done well, would never show the mark and artistry of the
instructor the way an unusual variant will.

I sometimes find that I have a difficult time enjoying performances (like
"Revels" to mention one that should be easy to enjoy) because people have
tampered with the angle of the set, the figures, the tune, the
choreography, etc... I feel such adjustments are fine if they serve a
specific function. For example, I was dancing and playing a Morris jig at a
gig this past weekend, and left out one set of capers (and it's associated
chorus) in order not to lose the attention of some antsy children. However,
the changes that irk me are the ones that serve no useful purpose that I
can discern but do in fact misinform the public. For example, a longways
set lined up across the stage - you would think that the number ones would
be nearest the musician, but instead they take hands four from the further
end up towards the music!  To the audience it appeared that all the dancers
are on the improper side and all the action is directed towards the head of
the set. Another time I watched a set form on an exact diagonal to the
walls of the stage set. There was no reason that I could discern. The set
would have fit equally well or better on a parallel with the walls. The
audience sitting in its semi-circular seating were viewing the dancers from
every angle no matter how they formed. I know how difficult it is to hold a
set in this orientation so it seems the dancers had practiced this and had
learned how to maintain the diagonal. They did a great job. I worry about
what these things tell the audience who tends to assume that the
performances are authoritative renditions, about these dances?

Those of you who know me are probably laughing because I am notorious for
tampering with the norm and the dogma, but several things are different
about the way that I do it:
1) I am almost always working in a participatory rather than performance
setting and the "audience" is learning the dance and hearing my disclaimers
about the usual way and my personal interpretation. If it is an experiment
they know it and have no illusions about what to expect when they go to
someone else's dance.
2) I always have a reason for why I think my alteration to the norm
improves the dance or is a better rendition of the original.

Well that's my cynical assessment,
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:18:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:18:15 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3684CE7B.68B04980.0078596C-AT-aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there she goes again!)...

In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate Blanchette, it was startling to hear music from Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what) at the moment when she transformed herself from Elizabeth the person to Queen Elizabeth the icon.  Sure there's wonderful music from that era that would have been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing says "England" like Elgar -- and of course, Mozart is transcendent. 

And the number of people who would notice that it's not historically correct is insignificant.  But it made me sit up, that's for sure.

Suzanne
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:24:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:19:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKFEM5B7S91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
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Suzanne wrote:

> Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there she goes again!)...

> In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate Blanchette, it was
>startling to hear music from Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what)
>at the moment when she transformed herself from Elizabeth the person to Queen
>Elizabeth the icon.  Sure there's wonderful music from that era that would have
>been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing says "England" like Elgar -- and of
>course, Mozart is transcendent.

> And the number of people who would notice that it's not historically correct
> is insignificant.  But it made me sit up, that's for sure.

I don't recall that the music in question was presented as happening in the
world of the film; it was on the soundtrack, so it could just as well have 
been music composed in 2001.

If you start to list the historical inaccuracies in _Elizabeth_ (the film,
not Colin Hume's beautiful dance), from assigning people the wrong religions
for dramatic effect to killing off people who actually lived, in order of 
damage done to people's understanding of history, you'll need to sharpen your
pencil once or twice before you get to the soundtrack.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:33:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 15:33:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030410223323.34036.qmail-AT-web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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-- from the soundtrack -- 
Night of the Long Knives [Byrd: Domine Decundum Actum
Meum] 
Rondes I & VII [Susato: Dansereye] 
Nimrod [Elgar: Enigma Variations] 
Requiem: Introitus [Mozart: Requiem] 

So film composer David Hirschfelder at least
acknowledged his sources, jarring as half of them are!

(of course, the number of people who even could
recognize the Elgar and Mozart pieces is pretty
small).


--- SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com wrote:
> Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there
> she goes again!)...
> 
> In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate
> Blanchette, it was startling to hear music from
> Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what) at
> the moment when she transformed herself from
> Elizabeth the person to Queen Elizabeth the icon. 
> Sure there's wonderful music from that era that
> would have been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing
> says "England" like Elgar -- and of course, Mozart
> is transcendent. 
> 
> And the number of people who would notice that it's
> not historically correct is insignificant.  But it
> made me sit up, that's for sure.
> 
> Suzanne


=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:08:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:06:21 -0400
From: Loretta Holz 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
These are the instructions we have--

A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk

It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.   
Loretta Holz
Warren, NJ
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:12:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:09:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Loretta --

> Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
> These are the instructions we have--

> A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk

> It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
> both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.

I called this a couple of times this February (big surprise) and just made
sure the minor sets were widely separated.  Worked fine.  Couples waiting
out at the ends need to stay awake.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:36:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:33:41 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Valentine's Day A part
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030410162625.00b943a8-AT-popserver.panix.com>
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At 04:09 PM 4/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Loretta --
>
> > Can anyone tell us how the A part is done in Valentine's Day?
> > These are the instructions we have--
>
> > A: 1s lead up & bk, while 2s lead down & bk
>
> > It seems as though the couples would bump into each other if they were
> > both holding inside hands.  As far as I know it's a DM.

The Ones turn their backs on their original Twos and lead up to meet the 
Twos from the next minor set.  As Alan suggests, you need room between the 
minor sets, and couples coming in as Ones at the top are often disconcerted 
to find that their new Twos are facing down, ready to meet the next Ones in 
line.  Oops...
Hugs,
Sharon


>I called this a couple of times this February (big surprise) and just made
>sure the minor sets were widely separated.  Worked fine.  Couples waiting
>out at the ends need to stay awake.
>
>-- Alan
>
>--
>===============================================================================
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
>===============================================================================


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:00:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:46:21 -0500
From: Susan Burt 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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References: <0HD5008BFALJDA-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>

I'm a newbie to this list, but I have to pipe up--"Clueless" is based 
on _Emma_, but "Bridget Jones" (the movie) is based on the book of 
the same name, which was loosely based on _Pride and Prejudice_.

Susan M. Burt


>I was amused and delighted by the music and costumes and dancing in 
>"A Knight's
>Tale" because it was so quirky to have modern music, etc., in that 
>setting. And
>I have seen (and enjoyed) Shakespearean plays done in modern costumes and a
>modern time period. And I have been very entertained by "Clueless" 
>and "Bridget
>Jones' Diaries" which are based on Jane Austen's _Emma_. It's just somewhat
>irritating when the movie adaptation is supposedly historically accurate and
>many of the details are glaringly inaccurate. But, it's just a movie, I know!
>
>Catie Condran Geist (Palm Bay, Florida)

-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761

309-888-2704

smburt-AT-ilstu.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:28:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:28:08 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mistaken identity
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HD5009ARLAYXM-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my 
computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and 
Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin 
Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam 
Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad 
that you were paying attention, Susan!

Catie Condran Geist
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:42:52 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:29:10 -0500
From: Susan Burt 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mistaken identity
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)
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Not wishing to hijack the list into a discussion of Jane Austen-ish 
films (well, not wishing to hijack the list much),  there is only one 
drawback to the casting of Colin Firth as Mark Darcy in "Bridget 
Jones," and that is that in the sequel (the book), _Bridget Jones on 
the Edge of Reason_ (which is loosely based on _Persuasion_), Colin 
Firth is an actual character in the plot--and Mark Darcy remains! 
so, they'll never be able to do a movie of BJ on the Edge of Reason. 
Sad.

Thanks for the lovely welcome-to-the-list messages!

Susan Burt



>I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my
>computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and
>Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin
>Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam
>Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad
>that you were paying attention, Susan!
>
>Catie Condran Geist

-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761

309-888-2704

smburt-AT-ilstu.edu

--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


Re: Mistaken identity

Not wishing to hijack the list into a discussion of Jane
Austen-ish films (well, not wishing to hijack the list
much),  there is only one drawback to the casting of Colin
Firth as Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones," and that is that in
the sequel (the book), _Bridget Jones on the Edge of Reason_ (which
is loosely based on _Persuasion_), Colin Firth is an actual character
in the plot--and Mark Darcy remains!  so, they'll never be able
to do a movie of BJ on the Edge of Reason.  Sad. 





Thanks for the lovely welcome-to-the-list messages!





Susan Burt











I realized my mistake as I was driving
into town and I couldn't get back to my

computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely
based on _Pride and

Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant
that Colin

Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he
played Fitzwilliam

Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and
Prejudice." I'm glad

that you were paying attention, Susan!



Catie Condran Geist






-- 

O, wae upon you, Men o' State

That brethren rouse in deadly hate!

As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,

Sae may it on your heads return!



--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793



Susan Meredith Burt

602 Normal Avenue

Normal, IL 61761



309-888-2704



smburt-AT-ilstu.edu




--Boundary_(ID_mCAwbQCV0bPBy3UjQ23b+A)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:48:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:36:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Mistaken identity
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUKKGHKI4G91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Catie wrote:

> I realized my mistake as I was driving into town and I couldn't get back to my
> computer until now! "Bridget Jones's Diary" is loosely based on _Pride and
> Prejudice_ (as Susan Burt said) and I thought that it was brilliant that Colin
> Firth played Mark Darcy in "Bridget Jones's Diary" and he played Fitzwilliam
> Darcy (AKA Mr. Darcy) in the A&E version of "Pride and Prejudice." I'm glad
> that you were paying attention, Susan!

And for some unknown reason he's playing a relative of the _Sense &
Sensibility_ family, a Henry Dashwood, in _What A Girl Wants_, which
is emphatically not based on a Jane Austen book.

(It's a remake of a Sandra Dee feature called "The Reluctant Debutante"; both
are based on a play by Douglas Home.)

That's as far off-topic as I'm willing to go on this.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:32:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:32:30 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hipness
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hi Victoria
Ouch, ouch, ouch.  I had no idea you were in the shop for
serious body work.  I hope you heal quickly and can get back
on the dance floor soon.  I'll see you out there when you're
back up and bouncing.  Take care.

Kalia

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:45:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:45:09 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hipness
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Apologies to all for the personal note on the list.
-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:03:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 02:01:19 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002f01c2fff8$28148180$1a6a550c-AT-paulstam>
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----- Original Message -----
From: 

<>

Filtered through the need to place the cameras and frame the shots so you
see the stars' faces. And the fact that most choreographers in Hollywood
have little sense of historic dance pre-1930s (in other words, back to the
time that a lot of contemporary dance began being filmed in Hollywood). And
the final fact that, even if you get a choreographer who knows what's what,
the budget for the time it would take to train extras and stars to do
something resembling real period dance isn't there. So they fall back on
arming and circling, which almost anyone can do.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:02:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:01:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Benjamin Stein 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030411120140.5334.qmail-AT-web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Tom Vincent  wrote:
> -- from the soundtrack -- 
> Night of the Long Knives [Byrd: Domine Decundum Actum
> Meum] 
> Rondes I & VII [Susato: Dansereye] 
> Nimrod [Elgar: Enigma Variations] 
> Requiem: Introitus [Mozart: Requiem] 
> 
> So film composer David Hirschfelder at least
> acknowledged his sources, jarring as half of them are!
> 
> (of course, the number of people who even could
> recognize the Elgar and Mozart pieces is pretty
> small).
> 
> 
> --- SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com wrote:
> > Speaking of historical authenticity (oh no, there
> > she goes again!)...
> > 
> > In the recent film about Elizabeth I, starring Cate
> > Blanchette, it was startling to hear music from
> > Mozart's Requiem and Elgar (can't remember what) at
> > the moment when she transformed herself from
> > Elizabeth the person to Queen Elizabeth the icon. 
> > Sure there's wonderful music from that era that
> > would have been suitable -- and divine.  But nothing
> > says "England" like Elgar -- and of course, Mozart
> > is transcendent. 
> > 
> > And the number of people who would notice that it's
> > not historically correct is insignificant.  But it
> > made me sit up, that's for sure.
> > 
> > Suzanne
> 
> 
> =====
> Tom Vincent
> 
> May you work like you don't need the money,
> Love like you've never been hurt,
> And dance like no-one is watching.
> 

And how about the old Mary Queen of Scots film that ends
with a bagpipe band marching on-in small kilts much
less-playing a nineteenth century bagpipe march!

Ben Stein
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and
> more
> http://tax.yahoo.com


__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:58:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 05:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <20030411125738.36940.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
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Yes!  Because *everyone* knows that the bagpipe music
in Mary's time was *French*!

--- Benjamin Stein  wrote:
> And how about the old Mary Queen of Scots film that
> ends
> with a bagpipe band marching on-in small kilts much
> less-playing a nineteenth century bagpipe march!
> 
> Ben Stein



=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 06:12:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:12:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <17e.1915c883.2bc81928-AT-aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/10/03 8:01:21 PM, smburt-AT-ilstu.edu writes:

<< Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761 >>

Thank goodness we've now got someone on the list from a normal street in a 
normal town. Welcome, Susan!!!

Judy G.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:35:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030413053454.82688.qmail-AT-web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
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-- Graham Christian  wrote:
> There is almost no overlap between theatre/film
> producers and dance scholars (there's scarcely overlap
> between dance scholars and *dancers*!).

I don't think there is much interaction between theatre/film
producers and _dancers_, let alone historians. 

> Dance is not "important"--so, it's the very last
> thought.

Some directors think that _everyone_ can dance in a theater
production, even if they've never moved to music before (which is
different from dancing to it).

> All we have to convey is that the hero &
> heroine get closer, right? so, they just kinda move
> around, right? doesn't really matter what they're
> doing, right?

That's why people still watch fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers movies.

> Actors are not necessarily dancers of any kind.

Singers aren't either... and dancers can't necessarily act or sing.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:43:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 22:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Historical ECD, a la Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030413054306.83978.qmail-AT-web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Jon Berger  wrote:
> For some unknown reason, we watched the Hallmark Hall of Fame
> adaptation of "Return of the Native" last night.  I can now report,
> based on Hallmark's extensive research into dance styles in English
> villages of the 1870's, that dancing in that period consisted
almost
> exclusively of arming.

Unfortunately, Hollywood has done a lot of damage to real dancing
throughout its history. No wonder people (especially men) are afraid
to actually try dancing as recreation. They don't have any good role
models.

Andy in Portland


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Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:14:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 02:13:22 -0400
From: Michael Bergman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <0HD500MKF8B9PR-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu> <002f01c2fff8$28148180$1a6a550c-AT-paulstam>

Paul left out "and if you *do* have a cinematographer who can handle 
it, *and* a choreographer who knows what she's doing, AND a plot that 
suits it, AND the time and the budget to train the extras and the 
stars, *THEN* the stars will refuse to attend the dance classes, and 
the footage showing the extras dancing well will have to be cut 
because either a) it also has one of the stars making a mess of 
things, or b) it shows the extras dancing well enough that the shots 
of the stars make them look like they have three left feet and a 
problem making decisions.

Based on a real story, related to me by a friend who was an extra in 
a movie that had historical dance scenes and a very good dance 
historian as the choreographer.  The union wound up suing the 
production company on the grounds that as the extras were selected 
for their dance ability and given special training, they were no 
longer 'extras' and were entitled to a higher rate of pay.  They won.

--Michael

At 2:01 AM -0500 4/11/03, Paul Stamler wrote:
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: 
>
>  <  The
>  choreographer is hired to prepare the actors for the dance scenes and the
>  dances end up being the choreographer's "vision" of how the dances looked,
>  or
>  how he/she wants the dances to appear in the movie.>>
>
>  Filtered through the need to place the cameras and frame the shots so you
>  see the stars' faces. And the fact that most choreographers in Hollywood
>  have little sense of historic dance pre-1930s (in other words, back to the
>  time that a lot of contemporary dance began being filmed in Hollywood). And
>  the final fact that, even if you get a choreographer who knows what's what,
>  the budget for the time it would take to train extras and stars to do
>  something resembling real period dance isn't there. So they fall back on
>  arming and circling, which almost anyone can do.
>
>  Peace,
>  Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:17:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:16:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: piano?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030413061651.93400.qmail-AT-web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- trev  wrote:
> Do your pianists bring their piano with them?
> 
> One of our well known bands (in England) "Cumbrian Gap" always
> bring their own piano (upright - not grand) with them, whatever
> part of the country they  are playing in.
> Does the same thing happen over in US?

Here in Portland, the piano in the hall where we do English was
donated by a dancer. Since the other groups that dance in there are
square and round dancers who use records, we are the only ones who
use it. The Contra hall, owned by the city of Portland Parks and
Recreation department, has a piano in the hall. I'm not sure what
it's used for besides Saturday dances. One of our piano players has
an electric piano that he brings when he is playing, and it is
sometimes used if we are dancing in a different hall.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 06:53:42 PST
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:52:04 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Shakespeare Hokey Pokey
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Thought some of you might enjoy this one:



Subject: hokey pokey by W. Shakespeare

 The following is from the Washington Post Style Invitational contest
that asks readers to submit "instructions" for something (anything),
but written in the style of a famous person. The winning entry was
The Hokey Pokey (as written by W. Shakespeare).

O proud left foot, that ventures quick within
Then soon upon a backward journey lithe.
Anon, once more the gesture, then begin:
Command sinistral pedestal to writhe.
Commence thou then the fervid Hokey-Poke,
A mad gyration, hips in wanton swirl.
To spin! A wilde release from Heavens yoke.
Blessed dervish! Surely canst go, girl.
The Hoke, the poke -- banish now thy doubt
Verily, I say, 'tis what it's all about.

-- by William Shakespeare
(Jeff Brechlin, Potomac Falls)






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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:11:28 PST
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:10:50 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:16:40 PST
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:15:55 -0400
From: "wlinden-AT-panix.com" 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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  I feel obliged to remind the list that we constantly do dances which are
'not the one that goes with that music'. Are you not aware that we
constantly perform "The Guidman of Ballengeich" to Playford's published
tune for "Hunt the Squirrel", simply because Sharp preferred it? (Except
for the night I used the original one, and was scolded by Fried who
insisted that "New Scotch Jig" was the title.) Are we likely to stop using
"Miss Dolland's Delight" to accompany "The Bishop" any time soon? And how
many "Playford" tunes are popular tunes used over and over by the
broadsides, until someone thought it would make a good dance tune? "One
dance, one tune" just is not so, and never was.

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:10:50 -0400
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction

rechoreographed to work visually.  I think this was the case in Emma -- I
recall hearing the music to Jacob Hall's Jig (it's been a while so I may
have the wrong dance) but I definitely recall they didn't do whatever dance
went with the music.  Changes were made so people faced the camera and
moved 

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:29:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030414192858.70458.qmail-AT-web20601.mail.yahoo.com>
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Yes, and in many cases with mixed results at best. 
Case in point: Up with Aily to The Hare's Delight.
Fine dance; splendid tune. But the grandeur of the
tune  (3/2, a minor, if memory serves) alters the
character of the dance; the original tune (9/8, D
major, I believe) suggests a lighter, sprightlier
dance. Jacob Hall's Jig itself is danced to Under and
Over (or is it Over and Under) and in part as a result
becomes almost a mad scramble (there are other reasons
too).
Yes, we've all danced these & other translations with
pleasure--but there's every reason at least to look
again at the original tunes. 
--- "wlinden-AT-panix.com"  wrote:
>   I feel obliged to remind the list that we
> constantly do dances which are
> 'not the one that goes with that music'. Are you not
> aware that we
> constantly perform "The Guidman of Ballengeich" to
> Playford's published
> tune for "Hunt the Squirrel", simply because Sharp
> preferred it? (Except
> for the night I used the original one, and was
> scolded by Fried who
> insisted that "New Scotch Jig" was the title.) Are
> we likely to stop using
> "Miss Dolland's Delight" to accompany "The Bishop"
> any time soon? And how
> many "Playford" tunes are popular tunes used over
> and over by the
> broadsides, until someone thought it would make a
> good dance tune? "One
> dance, one tune" just is not so, and never was.
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From:  SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:10:50 -0400
> To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
> 
> rechoreographed to work visually.  I think this was
> the case in Emma -- I
> recall hearing the music to Jacob Hall's Jig (it's
> been a while so I may
> have the wrong dance) but I definitely recall they
> didn't do whatever dance
> went with the music.  Changes were made so people
> faced the camera and
> moved 
> 
>
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> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 
> 


=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:37:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:35:07 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030414122938.028a91d0-AT-popserver.panix.com>
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At 12:28 PM 4/14/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Yes, and in many cases with mixed results at best.
>Case in point: Up with Aily to The Hare's Delight.
>Fine dance; splendid tune. But the grandeur of the
>tune  (3/2, a minor, if memory serves) alters the
>character of the dance; the original tune (9/8, D
>major, I believe) suggests a lighter, sprightlier
>dance.

I confess I love the The Hare's Maggot in Pat Shaw's interpretation [Pure 
theater.  Also, I'm a sucker for clapping sequences with attitude].
Check out the Assembly Player's recording & accompanying booklet Pat Shaw's 
Playford.  We owe Nic Broadbridge & Marjorie Fennessy (and Fried Herman!) 
our thanks for their efforts to preserve Pat Shaw's legacy.
Cheers,
Sharon Green


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:37:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:37:24 +0000
From: Orly Krasner 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
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Question:  How do people feel about wonderful old tunes that currently have 
less than wonderful (or perhaps I should say, not as equally wonderful) old 
dances and the possibility of contemporary choreographers separating the two 
units in order to fit new, potentially wonderful dances to said old tune?

Just asking,
Orly Krasner (who has absolutely no vested interest in this discussion, and 
if you believe that, I have a very nice piece of beachfront property in 
Arizona for sale. . . .)





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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:43:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:42:30 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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"How do people feel about separating the two
units in order to fit new, potentially wonderful dances to said old tune?"

Good
CK


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:49:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:49:35 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0HDC000HVN2O7O-AT-smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>
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Suzanne was talking about the dances in the Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam 
version of "Emma" and the tunes that were played were listed in the credits 
as "Auretti's Dutch Skipper," "Jacob Hall's Jig," and "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot." 
For one of the dances, Emma and Mr. Knightly started the dance with the first 
figure, but then it turned into a choreographed dance with all the couples 
coming up the middle and casting off and dancing up the middle again so that 
they were facing the camera most of the time.

Catie Condran Geist
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:50:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:48:22 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000801c302be$cef04340$4a89550c-AT-paulstam>
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References: 

<>

All for it. 'Course, I have a vested interest, too, having done it.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:58:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:58:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUPVHF17FO92A3BG-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Catie wrote:

> Suzanne was talking about the dances in the Gwyneth Paltrow and Jeremy Northam
> version of "Emma" and the tunes that were played were listed in the credits
> as "Auretti's Dutch Skipper," "Jacob Hall's Jig," and "Mr. Beveridge's Maggot."


> For one of the dances, Emma and Mr. Knightly started the dance with the first
> figure, but then it turned into a choreographed dance with all the couples
> coming up the middle and casting off and dancing up the middle again so that
> they were facing the camera most of the time.

That was to the music of "Mr. Beveridge", if memory serves.

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:12:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:12:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Orly Krasner wrote:

> Question:  How do people feel about wonderful old tunes that currently have
> less than wonderful (or perhaps I should say, not as equally wonderful) old
> dances and the possibility of contemporary choreographers separating the two
> units in order to fit new, potentially wonderful dances to said old tune?
>
> Just asking,
> Orly Krasner

go for it!

i hope that anyone putting new dance wine into old playford bottles will
make the effort to do a little research on the tune (e.g. using jeremy
barlow's edition of playford, not just one edition of playford) so as not
to perpetuate errors that were corrected in later editions.

or to avoid misreadings such as have been made of graies inn masque (sp?),
where the only reconstruction i have seen completely ignores the drastic
tempo changes indicated in playford between certain sections of the dance.
those changes make the tune much more interesting (in my opinion, anyway),
but they were indicated so subtly - by a backwards time signature, if
memory serves - that the casual reader of the music wouldn't know it.
barlow's notes explain such things.

- susie lorand, opening up a can of worms - since some tunes have as many
  variants as there are playford editions...

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:16:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:16:02 -0400
From: Carl Friedman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References: 

>Question:  How do people feel about wonderful old tunes that 
>currently have less than wonderful (or perhaps I should say, not as 
>equally wonderful) old dances and the possibility of contemporary 
>choreographers separating the two units in order to fit new, 
>potentially wonderful dances to said old tune?
>
>Just asking,
>Orly Krasner (who has absolutely no vested interest in this 
>discussion, and if you believe that, I have a very nice piece of 
>beachfront property in Arizona for sale. . . .)
>


IMHO this is not much of a problem - perhaps the poor choreography 
has sufficiently buried both the tune and the dance that I just 
notice this combination as often - but rather the reverse is all too 
common: wonderful (usually new) choreography being put to dreadful, 
or at least poorly chosen, tunes.

I find this fits into two basic categories: 1) the nice dance that 
gets put to a dirge-like tune, giving me the feeling that the 
choreographer picked the tune because it sounded like it was old and 
English, but not for dance-related qualities; 2) the omnipresent 
dippy major key jig.

I would give examples of the above but for the knowledge that doing 
so would inevitably attract angry responses, and, of course, this is 
all "purely subjective" (quotation marks because I don't really 
believe it is totally subjective).  Instead, I will send some praise 
and thanks toward Gary Roodman for avoiding the above traps and 
having written numerous absolutely wonderful dances which are simply 
perfect matches for their very dance-worthy tunes. Obviously there 
are others who have put tune and step together nicely in modern 
times, but I think Gary deserves special kudos.

Carl Friedman


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:24:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:24:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, I wrote:

> i hope that anyone putting new dance wine into old playford bottles will
> make the effort to do a little research on the tune (e.g. using jeremy
> barlow's edition of playford, not just one edition of playford)



apologies for any ambiguity here - for those not familiar with barlow's
comprehensive edition, it includes all the tunes from all the editions of
vol. 1 of playford's _the [english] dancing master_, indicating what in
each tune changed between editions.  barlow's edition is grammatically
singular, but it practically equals the sum of all the editions.

say you were looking at playford's first edition (1651) and wondering
whether that F in the B part should really be an F-sharp, you could
consult barlow to see how it was notated in playford's second edition...

(which reminds me of a question that arose just yesterday about
_elizabeth_, but that's for another message...)



susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:26:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:26:35 +0000
From: Orly Krasner 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hi, Carl--
    The answer to my question, I think, is much cleaner when the poor 
pairing does in fact seem to have buried the dance.  I say "seems to" 
because different geographical areas do have different repertoires and what 
is unknown to me from the greater NY area may be an old favorite somewhere 
else.  The answer is less obvious when a dance is currently being 
done--probably because the tune is wonderful and the dance reconstruction is 
relatively new and unfamiliar.  The potential for digging into that can of 
worms may be greater than the surface question implies.
Orly Krasner




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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:27:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:26:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Two tunes--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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On a slightly related note, I often see that musicians
combine two or even three dances tunes together into a
'suite' (probably not the right term), which generally
makes them undanceable.  Does anyone ever choreograph
to these musical matings?  Three times through Black
Nag and then into Trip to Paris, for example?

--- Orly Krasner  wrote:
> Question:  How do people feel about wonderful old
> tunes that currently have 
> less than wonderful (or perhaps I should say, not as
> equally wonderful) old 
> dances and the possibility of contemporary
> choreographers separating the two 
> units in order to fit new, potentially wonderful
> dances to said old tune?
> 
> Just asking,
> Orly Krasner (who has absolutely no vested interest
> in this discussion, and 
> if you believe that, I have a very nice piece of
> beachfront property in 
> Arizona for sale. . . .)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:52:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ...the dances, the tunes...
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Orly and others--I'd say, take a deep breath. Count to
a hundred. Count to a hundred again.
There are times when the old tune has a perfectly good
dance, and the choreographer has either never danced
the original--or the original is poorly understood or
reconstructed, and awaits its true champion. So, I'd
say, ask around. Ask several people. Ask again. 
It's not a disaster to have two or even three good or
goodish dances to a single tune--but it's not
generally what we have in mind in ECD.  

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:05:27 PST
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:03:00 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 08:26 PM 4/14/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi, Carl--
>    The answer to my question, I think, is much cleaner when the poor 
> pairing does in fact seem to have buried the dance.  I say "seems to" 
> because different geographical areas do have different repertoires and 
> what is unknown to me from the greater NY area may be an old favorite 
> somewhere else.  The answer is less obvious when a dance is currently 
> being done--probably because the tune is wonderful and the dance 
> reconstruction is relatively new and unfamiliar.  The potential for 
> digging into that can of worms may be greater than the surface question 
> implies.

You definitely can be blind-sided when an old dance unexpectedly become 
popular after a lapse of many years.  Case in point: Fried originally set 
her dance Wherever She Goes to the tune Buskin, the dance Buskin having 
fallen somewhat out of favor.  Then came The Purcell Year, with new 
interpretations of Buskin by Nic and by Christine Helwig, and Fried was 
left searching for a new tune for the dance (eventually settling on one 
suggested by Nic).

Interesting thread, Orly--thanks for suggesting it.

Cheers,
Sharon 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:14:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:13:59 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: 

It comes down to me to locating the point at which "the music will 
tell you what to do" becomes "any jig or reel".

What are the differences between ECD as we do it here in the states, 
if that's a monolith, and "contra" (somehow the "dancing" has gotten 
lost in the last 20 years)?

We've recently had a considerable discussion about the use of the 
piano in the contemporary ECD scene in the US.  Apparently Boston and 
New York are no longer the standard-setters but instead have 
degenerated into a backwater because pianos are hard to play and hard 
to tune and hard to lug around.  Where does that leave Phil Merrill 
and Jacqueline Schwab, Chuck Ward and John Davison?  How does that 
affect the support that the bottom part of the piano gives to the 
tempo and rhythm?  How does that affect the style with which we dance?

How has being stuck with a guitar for rhythm affected "contra" 
dancing?  Do the people who are stuck with only a guitar have a clue 
about what Tony Parkes, Peter Barnes or Quack can do for their 
dancing?

Using a melody which has a history in our dance tradition brings me 
up against the questions about diverging from all the other 
traditions (tempo, harmony, movement style, sound ideal).

Do we all really want to do New England style contra dances and 
square dances to old-time music?  Do we really want to do English 
Country Dance to "any tune will do"? 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:22:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:21:10 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I think you missed the point Emily:
1) The "music will tell you what to do" is precisely HOW we compose a new
dance to an old tune. It is also HOW we determine that the choreographer of
yesteryear did (in our own opinion) a poor job of listening to what the
melody says to do.

2) There are many of us who do not do contras to "any jig." I wouldn't
recommend making sweeping generalizations about contra or ECD in America
because they vary so greatly from place to place.

3) I think the piano discussion was based on the view that Boston and New
York ARE the trend-setters which is why we have so many Phil and Jackie
etc... clones around the country and why so many dancers feel that it is
nearly impossible to do ECD without a piano in the band. During the piano
discussion it became evident that those of us who do not like a piano for
ECD find pleasure in using harpsichord, string bass, cello/gamba, etc...
for "the support the bottom part of the piano gives to the
tempo and rhythm" and at times we also find pleasure in dancing to the
unaccompanied melody. It DOES effect the style which may be one of the
reasons I don't enjoy dancing the old ECD to piano.

4) Those of us who have been "stuck" with a guitar DO know what Tony Parkes
et al. can do for their dancing. In some cases we try to emulate what they
give. Sometimes we choose to test a different hypothesis. Also, you failed
to list the many guitar players who have contributed significantly to the
style of New England Contradancing through the years.

5) Sorry I didn't follow the bit about diverging from other traditions.

6) I DON'T think we all "really want to do New England style contra dances
and square dances to old-time music?" Nor do we "really want to do English
Country Dance to "any tune will do"?" I don't think that those were the
options being proposed when the question was put as to whether modern
choreographers should feel OK about writing a different dance to an old
tune if they do not like the original pairing.

I can use an old-time tune on occasion (e.g., I wrote a square dance to go
with Kitchen Girl). But the New England style and repertoire seem to fit
the genre better in general. Interestingly, about 25 years ago I noticed
that most of the contradances I went to outside New England were being done
to Old-Time music because that's what the available musicians played. I
thought perhaps a style of contra would evolve to match this music and to
some extent it may have. However, what I find most striking is that there
are now many excellent New England-style bands all across America which may
suggest that the genre held its own and persuaded the musicians what to
play.
In my experience "Any tune will do" only if one has the most exquisitely
talented musicians who are capable of making any tune say anything. We do
what we can to ennunciate the figures when we play but many melodies only
speak one dance easily.
Cammy



                                                                                                                                   
                      "Emily L. Ferguson"                                                                                          
                                         To:       ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                      
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                         
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: One tune--One dance                                           
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                      14-Apr-2003 05:13 PM                                                                                         
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




It comes down to me to locating the point at which "the music will
tell you what to do" becomes "any jig or reel".

What are the differences between ECD as we do it here in the states,
if that's a monolith, and "contra" (somehow the "dancing" has gotten
lost in the last 20 years)?

We've recently had a considerable discussion about the use of the
piano in the contemporary ECD scene in the US.  Apparently Boston and
New York are no longer the standard-setters but instead have
degenerated into a backwater because pianos are hard to play and hard
to tune and hard to lug around.  Where does that leave Phil Merrill
and Jacqueline Schwab, Chuck Ward and John Davison?  How does that
affect the support that the bottom part of the piano gives to the
tempo and rhythm?  How does that affect the style with which we dance?

How has being stuck with a guitar for rhythm affected "contra"
dancing?  Do the people who are stuck with only a guitar have a clue
about what Tony Parkes, Peter Barnes or Quack can do for their
dancing?

Using a melody which has a history in our dance tradition brings me
up against the questions about diverging from all the other
traditions (tempo, harmony, movement style, sound ideal).

Do we all really want to do New England style contra dances and
square dances to old-time music?  Do we really want to do English
Country Dance to "any tune will do"?




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:43:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:42:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> How has being stuck with a guitar for rhythm affected "contra"
> dancing?

"stuck with"?  when there are contra dance guitarists like larry unger and
paul prestopino around? (to name just the first two greats who spring to
mind.)  or when guitar-and-bass combos like kathy talvitie and pete
soloway (of raise the roof) are around to anchor a band.

> Do we all really want to do New England style contra dances and
> square dances to old-time music?

why not?  many different styles of music work well for contra.  (some of
them - rock & roll, big band, etc. - i wouldn't use every night but they
can be fun for a change of pace.)

susie lorand
(native new englander dancing and fiddling in new jersey)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:53:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: old-time music for contra dancing (no real ECD content)
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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there was an interesting article in the CDSS news recently (2001 or 2002?)
by an old-time musician on how to adapt OT style and repertoire to work
for contra dancing.  topics included medleys, key changes, and various
tricks that contra-dance bands use to make the music exciting for the
dancers.

i admit that i probably would not enjoy doing an entire half evening of
contras to music in all the same key if the banjo players were reluctant
to retune or capo.

susie lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 16:30:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: Tom Vincent 
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On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish
> dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?

Most of the dances were not Scottish.  Miss deMille came to Miss gadd's
English country dance classes to find inspiration for the dances in the
original Brigadoon.  All I remember is that the scene where harry's body
is carried in was started by some figures from Step Stately.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-zoo.uvm.edu)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:12:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:03:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: "Priscilla M. Burrage" 
CC: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Tom Vincent 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Priscilla wrote:

> > And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish
> > dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?

> Most of the dances were not Scottish.  Miss deMille came to Miss gadd's
> English country dance classes to find inspiration for the dances in the
> original Brigadoon.  All I remember is that the scene where harry's body
> is carried in was started by some figures from Step Stately.

I am gobsmacked to find out about this.  Thanks for the information.

(According to IMDB, Gene Kelly is credited with the movie choreography, which
I recall as having a fair amount of half-digested Highland stuff in it; I don't
know if any of Miss deMille's choreography survived.  I wonder if notation
exists.)

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:52:03 PST
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Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:51:43 -0400
From: "wlinden-AT-panix.com" 
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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 I would add that at least one CDNY dance, we were treated to a composition
called "The Horse's Bransle", which was not the dance taken down by Arbeau,
and not done to the tune transcribed by Arbeau. Has there been any
criticism of whoever did that one?

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Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:00:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:04:58 -0400
From: The Dupre Family 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Australian barn dances
To: ECD List 
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A question for you Australians or you Australian dance afficionados:

I'll be calling for a wedding reception this coming Sunday, and the bride is
Australian.  I thought it would be a great surprise to her if I could
include one or two barn-type dances of Australian extraction.  Long ago, we
had two Australians dancing with our dance community, and I remember them
teaching a few Australian dances but remember no details except that one was
a 9-person dance called Prime Minister (I'll pass that one up because I
remember that it was a bit of a challenge for us to learn it) and another
one was a couple dance called Frog Puddles.  Do any of you know Frog Puddles
and can any of you suggest other straightforward Australian barn dances?

Now I'll sit back and wait for my mailbox to overflow with all those
Australian dances!

Sue Dupre
Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:05:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:03:28 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I wrote a hornpipe tune for a fiddler in North Carolina named Laurie
Fisher. After thrashing about for a good name, I decided "Fisher's
Hornpipe" is a darn good name for a tune even if it is an old traditional
one. So now I can tell everyone that "I wrote Fischer's Hornpipe." This
generates a lot of disbelief (until they hear the tune) and just enough
confusion to keep life interesting.
CK


                                                                                                                            
                      "wlinden-AT-panix.com"                                                                                   
                      
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Sue Dupre wrote:

> I'll be calling for a wedding reception this coming Sunday, and the bride is
> Australian.  I thought it would be a great surprise to her if I could
> include one or two barn-type dances of Australian extraction.  Long ago, we
> had two Australians dancing with our dance community, and I remember them
> teaching a few Australian dances but remember no details except that one was
> a 9-person dance called Prime Minister (I'll pass that one up because I
> remember that it was a bit of a challenge for us to learn it) and another
> one was a couple dance called Frog Puddles.  Do any of you know Frog Puddles
> and can any of you suggest other straightforward Australian barn dances?

> Now I'll sit back and wait for my mailbox to overflow with all those
> Australian dances!

I'll have to dig out my Bush Dance book.  I recognized a lot of the Bush Dances
from the Community Dances Manual; it sometimes seems like the distinctive
features of bush dancing are primarily musical.  If you can come up with a 
lagerphone (rhythm instrument made of empty beer cans hung on a metal frame)
I think you can do just about anything and it will be bush dancing.

One very feasible item is the Queensland Backstep, which is Virginia Reel /
Roger de Coverley played to a medley of tunes in different rhythms: equal parts 
reel, march, and jig (for example: Davy Davy Knick Knack, British Grenadiers,
Cock of the North, per Gordon Pott's remarks on the eceilidh list in Jan 2002.)

Hope this helps!

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:39:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:39:04 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com wrote:
> There's another aspect to having historically accurate dances in filmed dramas -- movies or TV.  How does it look to a camera -- and therefore the audience.

Well, for myself, I can't imagine a real dance looking more idiotic than 
arming followed by arming followed by arming.

 >I think this was the case in Emma -- I recall hearing the music to Jacob 
Hall's Jig (it's been a while so I may have the wrong dance) but I 
definitely recall they didn't do whatever dance went with the music.

On the other hand, I'm reasonably sure that in that glorious scene in 
"Pride and Prejudice" where Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy are having the spat 
about Mr. Darcy's supposed bad treatment of, umm, what's-his-name, the 
ne'er-do-well military guy that ends up marrying Saffie, the dance the 
scene is built around was done the way I see it done today.  I have no 
doubt whatsoever that the way we do it today isn't the way it would have 
been done in Austen's period, and I'm sure that fact gives those more in 
the know than I am the same degree of pain that seeing the 
all-arming-all-the-time dance in "Return of the Native" gave me, but to my 
mind it's a whole different thing when they actually take the trouble of 
asking someone for advice, and then follow it, which they obviously did in 
the case of P&P and didn't do in the case of RotN.

Incidentally, another brilliant little touch in P&P is that the band that 
was playing for the Bennett's village dance really sucked.  I could totally 
get behind Mr. Darcy's refusal to dance to it.  I wouldn't have wanted to 
either.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:44:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:43:48 -0700
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 07:30 PM 4/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
> > And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish
> > dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?
>
>Most of the dances were not Scottish.  Miss deMille came to Miss gadd's
>English country dance classes to find inspiration for the dances in the
>original Brigadoon.  All I remember is that the scene where harry's body
>is carried in was started by some figures from Step Stately.

Yes, but when I saw the revival on Broadway some time ago, the funeral 
dance for Harry was an authentic sword dance, flawlessly, magnificently 
performed by Jaime Jamison-- then regarded as one of the world's premier 
highland soloists.   So maybe Agnes De Mille didn't search out  authentic 
Scottish dancing, but whoever staged the revival (probably sometime in the 
60's) made sure the mistake was corrected.

Victoria in Seattle


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:49:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 19:49:00 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References:  

Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> We've recently had a considerable discussion about the use of the piano 
> in the contemporary ECD scene in the US.  Apparently Boston and New York 
> are no longer the standard-setters but instead have degenerated into a 
> backwater because pianos are hard to play and hard to tune and hard to 
> lug around.  Where does that leave Phil Merrill and Jacqueline Schwab, 
> Chuck Ward and John Davison?  

I can actually answer about Chuck, because the dance he most frequently 
plays, the one in Sebastopol, California, is also the one I most frequently 
plays.  He plays an electronic keyboard -- and often, I might add, has to 
be forcibly restrained from switching to the really unfortunate brass, 
woodwind, and percussion patches.  And he's still lugging it himself.  I 
too prefer listening to him tickle the ivories of a fine Steinway, but if 
it's a choice between the Yamaha and not hearing him play at all, I know 
which way I'll vote.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:56:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:56:06 -0500
From: Charlene Charette 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: 

Googling "Australian barn dance" (without quotes) turns up some
interesting sites.

Here are two I tried that look interesting:
http://www.webone.com.au/~kitka/
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/oz_dance.htm

--Charlene

-- 
Music is now so foolish that I am amazed.  Everything that is wrong is
permitted, and no attention is paid to what the old generation wrote as
composition.  -- Samuel Scheidt (1651)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:59:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:58:54 -0400
From: Kim Barrett 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 8:51 PM -0400 4/14/03, wlinden-AT-panix.com wrote:
> I would add that at least one CDNY dance, we were treated to a composition
>called "The Horse's Bransle", which was not the dance taken down by Arbeau,
>and not done to the tune transcribed by Arbeau. Has there been any
>criticism of whoever did that one?

Probably Gary Roodman's "Horse Play" (I think that's the correct name for
his dance.)

I would guess that only a relatively small minority of ECDers would
recognize the original tune and so have any reason to be surprised
(pleasantly or otherwise). I have to admit that it definitely felt
odd to me at first. Gary has also recently published a dance to a
tune from one of Caroso's dance manuals. I recall not liking that one
so much, but I think that had more to do with the music not being
played in a way that matched my expectations for Caroso's music. I
don't know if that was due to modifications to the tune made by Gary,
or to the band's interpretation. And I might change my mind the next
time I dance it. Again, I don't think very many ECDers are likely to
even notice the repackaging in this case.

I certainly have no objection to the concept in general, and can even
think of a few tunes that I wish had a (IMO) better dance to go with
them. There is also certainly precedent for doing a new choreography
for an existing tune that is already part of the ECD canon. If I
remember correctly, there is even historical precedent for the practice
from pre-revival times.

It is also in the modern choreographer's interest to choose carefully
if doing something like this, since a poor choice could lead to the new
dance being buried by the old and never getting done. Not a good use of
the choreographer's time, nor good for the ego.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:08:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 00:08:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: 

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Kim Barrett wrote:

> At 8:51 PM -0400 4/14/03, wlinden-AT-panix.com wrote:
> > I would add that at least one CDNY dance, we were treated to a composition
> >called "The Horse's Bransle", which was not the dance taken down by Arbeau,
> >and not done to the tune transcribed by Arbeau. Has there been any
> >criticism of whoever did that one?
>
> Probably Gary Roodman's "Horse Play" (I think that's the correct name for
> his dance.)
>
> I would guess that only a relatively small minority of ECDers would
> recognize the original tune and so have any reason to be surprised
> (pleasantly or otherwise). I have to admit that it definitely felt

 I don't think so. What surprised me was that it was NOT to the "original"
tune, having nothing in common but the name. I honestly did not see the
point of the exercise.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:49:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:48:37 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sadler's Wells
To: ecd 
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Hi All

Anyone got the dance notation (I've got the music) for
Sadler's Wells lying around handy?  Reply offline is fine.

Many thanks,
Kalia
-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 22:56:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:55:47 +0000
From: catiegeist-AT-att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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For Sue Dupre:

We just danced "Australian Ladies" at Scottish Country Dancing this evening. If 
you would like the dance directions, please e-mail me at catiegeist-AT-att.net.

Catie Condran Geist
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 23:03:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:00:46 -0400
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Graham Christian
 writes:
> Yes, and in many cases with mixed results at best. 
> Case in point: Up with Aily to The Hare's Delight.
> Fine dance; splendid tune. But the grandeur of the
> tune  (3/2, a minor, if memory serves) alters the
> character of the dance; the original tune (9/8, D
> major, I believe) suggests a lighter, sprightlier
> dance. Jacob Hall's Jig itself is danced to Under and
> Over (or is it Over and Under) and in part as a result
> becomes almost a mad scramble (there are other reasons
> too).
> Yes, we've all danced these & other translations with
> pleasure--but there's every reason at least to look
> again at the original tunes. 

Does anyone know anything about why some of these tunes got changed
around? Often it seems to me there was no real rhyme or reason for it,
and had more to do with one individual's opinion as to whether a tune
sounds "right" or not than anything else. (After actually getting a
chance to do Up with Aily to the original tune, it made a lot more sense
to me, for instance.) I tend to agree more with the late Ingrid Brainerd,
an internationally recognized expert on early dance (who flattered me
when she called me a friend), whose motto was "Always go to the source
first."

Dawn Culbertson, Baltimore
(where it's actually not raining for once...)


> --- "wlinden-AT-panix.com"  wrote:
> >   I feel obliged to remind the list that we
> > constantly do dances which are
> > 'not the one that goes with that music'. Are you not
> > aware that we
> > constantly perform "The Guidman of Ballengeich" to
> > Playford's published
> > tune for "Hunt the Squirrel", simply because Sharp
> > preferred it? (Except
> > for the night I used the original one, and was
> > scolded by Fried who
> > insisted that "New Scotch Jig" was the title.) Are
> > we likely to stop using
> > "Miss Dolland's Delight" to accompany "The Bishop"
> > any time soon? And how
> > many "Playford" tunes are popular tunes used over
> > and over by the
> > broadsides, until someone thought it would make a
> > good dance tune? "One
> > dance, one tune" just is not so, and never was.
> > 
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From:  SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
> > Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:10:50 -0400
> > To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
> > 
> > rechoreographed to work visually.  I think this was
> > the case in Emma -- I
> > recall hearing the music to Jacob Hall's Jig (it's
> > been a while so I may
> > have the wrong dance) but I definitely recall they
> > didn't do whatever dance
> > went with the music.  Changes were made so people
> > faced the camera and
> > moved 
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> =====
> Graham Christian
> "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."
> 
> __________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:19:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:18:33 -0700
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Two tunes--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20030414140327.00a4bec0-AT-mail.oz.net>
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At 01:26 PM 4/14/2003 -0700, Tom Vincent wrote:
>On a slightly related note, I often see that musicians
>combine two or even three dances tunes together into a
>'suite' (probably not the right term), which generally
>makes them undanceable.

Are you talking about CD's or live music?   In playing live for dances, 
musicians occasionally play a "change tune" that also goes with the dance, 
and which is in a related key to the usual tune. This occurs frequently 
with tunes that are A only and go through many times, such as Step Stately 
and Nonesuch, and in cases where the band doesn't care for the usual tune 
and doesn't want to play it 10-12 times.  But the change tune would be in 
the same meter and tempo as the original tune, and both would be in related 
keys so the change is no more jarring than the change from A to B music of 
the same tune.

On tapes and CD's bands often makes medleys, but these are intended for 
listening only so the rules governing them are totally different.  The 
tunes may be in different meters, are more likely to be sharply contrasting 
in mood (eg. something slow and lyric followed by something very energetic) 
and since they aren't expecting people to dance to this combo, the 
formations of the dances used may not even be the same.  A set dance for 
three couples might be played two or four times.  Sit down and just listen 
-- you aren't meant to be dancing these suites.

>  Does anyone ever choreograph
>to these musical matings?  Three times through Black
>Nag and then into Trip to Paris, for example?

Not for recreational dancing.   But yes for Nonesuch (Seattle's ECD 
performing group.) I do put dances together into suites.  Dancing one dance 
5-7 times through is boring for the audience, and if we do just a few 
repetitions and stop to regroup, there is too much non-dance time, and the 
show loses energy.  So we do two or three different dances in succession, 
just a few times through for each one, before stopping and regrouping.
I plan this in consultation with the band leader to make sure the 
transition from one dance to the next is smooth in terms of meter, tempo, 
energy and key signature.

Victoria in Seattle

-- 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:35:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:34:37 -0500
From: Bob Borcherding 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <01KUQ94L4TAQ92AK35-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>


I remembered that someone had written an interesting post about 
Australian Bush Dancing ("C J Brady") on rec.folk-dancing back in 
1994.

Rather than posting the entire post, here is a link to the google 
stored version:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Bush+Dancing+%26+Australian+Contras&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=Cx4D2J.Kyv%40cix.compulink.co.uk&rnum=1

bob borcherding
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 05:36:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:41:03 +1000
From: Sue Drain 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9BFDDF.A091EEF5-AT-tig.com.au>
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References: <01KUQ94L4TAQ92AK35-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

A lagerphone is actually metal beer bottle caps nailed to a stick -
see:

http://www.wongawillicolonialdance.org.au/ausfolk_articles/bush_percussion.htm

Sue Drain

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
> 

> 
> I'll have to dig out my Bush Dance book.  I recognized a lot of the Bush Dances
> from the Community Dances Manual; it sometimes seems like the distinctive
> features of bush dancing are primarily musical.  If you can come up with a
> lagerphone (rhythm instrument made of empty beer cans hung on a metal frame)
> I think you can do just about anything and it will be bush dancing.
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:33:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <01KUKERWVCYI91XBQQ-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <5.1.0.14.1.20030414170232.00a4eec0-AT-mail.oz.net>

On Mon, 14 Apr 2003, Paul / Victoria Bestock wrote:

> At 07:30 PM 4/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >On Thu, 10 Apr 2003, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
> >
> > > And I didn't see any Usenet posts or websites listing costume or Scottish
> > > dance inaccuracies in _Brigadoon_ in 1954.  I wonder why that was?
> >
> >Most of the dances were not Scottish.  Miss deMille came to Miss gadd's
> >English country dance classes to find inspiration for the dances in the
> >original Brigadoon.  All I remember is that the scene where harry's body
> >is carried in was started by some figures from Step Stately.
>
> Yes, but when I saw the revival on Broadway some time ago, the funeral
> dance for Harry was an authentic sword dance, flawlessly, magnificently
> performed by Jaime Jamison-- then regarded as one of the world's premier
> highland soloists.   So maybe Agnes De Mille didn't search out  authentic
> Scottish dancing, but whoever staged the revival (probably sometime in the
> 60's) made sure the mistake was corrected.

In the De Mille version, the dance for Harry's funeral was an authentic
sword dance.  It was the dance before that I was talking about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-zoo.uvm.edu)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:42:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:41:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030415134148.36729.qmail-AT-web20610.mail.yahoo.com>
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At your service:
DMLW. Playford, 1726.
A1 1-8 Neighbors back-to-back.
   9-16 Partners back-to-back.
A2 1-8 Neighbors two-hand turn once around.
   9-16 Partners two-hand turn once around. 
B1 1-8 Set (I like to do this on the diagonal, heading
for the center point; some "set to partner," but 1726
says: "Meet and set."). All turn single right
shoulder, clapping on the 1st & 4th beat of the 3rd
bar & the 1st beat of the 4th bar.
   9-16 Circle left once around (don't dawdle!).
B2 1-8  1s half-figure-8 down through the 2s, cross at
the top and go below as the 2s move up.
   9-16 Partners two-hand turn once around.

This ought to seem familiar: the figures are those of
"Easter Thursday" of fifteen or twenty years later.
Whether SW's figures were purloined for ET or placed
with ET's music accidentally--or whether SW's figures
fit with ET at all--is a debate I won't begin now...  

--- Kalia Kliban  wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> Anyone got the dance notation (I've got the music)
> for
> Sadler's Wells lying around handy?  Reply offline is
> fine.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Kalia
> -- 
> Kalia Kliban
> kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net
> 


=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 06:58:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:19:59 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One Dance One Tune
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030415.095501.-1655859.7.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
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I am not generally in favor of multiple dances set to the same tune: one
loses all the musical cues that formerly told you to turn here or set
there. I am thinking in particular of Liliburlero (great longways dance)
and Colin Hume's Hush-a-Bye (I think that's right), which is an equally
great circle mixer set to this tune. But why do it? Similarly, I love the
original dance The Chestnut to the tune of that same name, but I also
love David Ashwell's All Saints Day, set to that tune. Two great
choreographies, but you can't do them both in the same evening (for
general dancers).

I am finding this particularly an issue in the book of dances set to
Carolan's tunes that I am editing. There are, I believe, 6 dances set to
the tune Hewlett, 3 to Planxty Irwin in 3/4 time and 2 to that tune in
its original 6/8 time, 3 to Sheebeg, Sheemore, and so on. They are all
good dances, and it is in fact interesting to see the different
approaches to the choreographies set to the same tune, but which of them
will become as beloved and as well known as, say, Gathering Peascods?

Now, on the other hand, I don't feel quite as strongly about Gary
Roodman's use of the tune Argeers for his dance Our Cheers--the dance
Argeers is very challenging & probably is not done much anymore.

To me, ECD is a dance set to a unique strain of music--they are
inseparable, unlike contras or squares or even (sometimes!) Scottish.

Allison Thompson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:08:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:08:27 -0400
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dances and tunes
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: 
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I must admit that I don't understand the latest fuss about dances and tunes 
in ECD. Why not do as I do: ignore both the instructions and the music?

Saves a whole lot of trouble, believe me.

Steve Corrsin


Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288







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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:37:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:37:40 -0400
From: Carl Friedman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <20030415.020055.-22815.21.dcculb-AT-juno.com>

>
>Does anyone know anything about why some of these tunes got changed
>around? Often it seems to me there was no real rhyme or reason for it,
>and had more to do with one individual's opinion as to whether a tune
>sounds "right" or not than anything else. (After actually getting a
>chance to do Up with Aily to the original tune, it made a lot more sense
>to me, for instance.) I tend to agree more with the late Ingrid Brainerd,
>an internationally recognized expert on early dance (who flattered me
>when she called me a friend), whose motto was "Always go to the source
>first."
>
>Dawn Culbertson, Baltimore
>(where it's actually not raining for once...)
>

My limited observation is that tunes get changed because of 1) the 
opinion of someone such as Cecil Sharp which, having been written and 
published, becomes the standard, despite the reasons not being 
necessarily known to us today; example: the Abbott's Bromley Horn 
Dance tune, the use of which has totally changed the flavor of that 
dance, and established entirely new traditions for its use, and 2) 
the opinion of a dance leader, which then is supported by others; 
examples: Jim Morrison introduced Bolt the Door for Jack's Health, 
and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think that is a 
major improvement for that dance, so it stuck.

There are other changes which are not so clear. One from the dance 
Dawn called last night comes to mind. Brad Foster suggested using the 
Highland Lilt tune for The Haymakers at a camp a few summers ago. I 
don't know if that was his idea or if he got it from someone else. 
But I liked it, and use that tune when I call the dance. Dawn prefers 
the "original" tune as in Neal (quotation marks because I don't know 
how original it is), and requested that tune last night. Up With Aily 
fits that category.

There will always be those who want to dance to the original tune 
because it is "original." Others like to experiment. Your mileage may 
vary.

Carl Friedman


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 09:40:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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this is one of the tunes that i think musicians need to be able to veto.
it's a killer on many instruments.  if you have a band that can do it
justice, great!

susie lorand




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:06:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:29:49 -0400
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Kettle Drum
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030415.130532.-74319.0.dcculb-AT-juno.com>
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Recently, the English dancers in my area (myself included) were fortunate
enough to have Helene Cornelius call a program, with Jacqueline Schwab
accompanying. But during the course of the dance, Helene said something
that rather astonished me--and is sort of relevant to the one tune/one
dance discussion that's been going on. She said that no one to date has
figured out the instructions to "Kettle Drum," a circle dance for 8 that
appears in the first edition of Playford, although a number of dances
have been composed to its tune since then. Has anyone made a stab at
trying to figure out the instructions to date? I'd be curious to hear
what, if anything, anyone has come up with.

Dawn Culbertson
Baltimore, MD

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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:16:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:14:51 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: old-time music for contra dancing (no real ECD content)
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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<>

Luckily, most of them aren't.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:26:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 10:25:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dance-tune
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> My limited observation is that tunes get changed
> because of 1) the 
> opinion of someone such as Cecil Sharp
For the most part, today's translated tunes are the
work of Cecil Sharp--in some cases, he simply
preferred a different tune, or couldn't imagine how
the original might make convincing dance music. But
almost 100 years later, more knowledge and experience
in both folk music and early music have allowed us to
"hear" some of those original tunes again. Which is
why they're often worth a second look. 
and 2) 
> the opinion of a dance leader, which then is
> supported by others; 
> examples: Jim Morrison introduced Bolt the Door for
> Jack's Health, 
> and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who
> doesn't think that is a 
> major improvement for that dance, so it stuck.
But not everyone approves of this change either: it
tends to make the original longways into something
with a more driving and jazzy feel. I like both: but
they have different effects. 
> There are other changes which are not so clear. One
> from the dance 
> Dawn called last night comes to mind. Brad Foster
> suggested using the 
> Highland Lilt tune for The Haymakers at a camp a few
> summers ago. I 
> don't know if that was his idea or if he got it from
> someone else. 
> But I liked it, and use that tune when I call the
> dance. Dawn prefers 
> the "original" tune as in Neal (quotation marks
> because I don't know 
> how original it is), and requested that tune last
> night. 
As above. It was Laurie Andres who turned the page of
his Fogg/Jackson edition of Neal and said, "Hey...!" I
think it's an inspired translation; but the original
is also fine. "Highland Lilt" is clearly more to
modern ECD taste. 
There is good precedent for this--Playford editions
have many examples of attempts to jazz up old tunes
for contemporary taste, or elaborate or simplify the
figures... 

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:01:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:00:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KUR5OGB4OC927KTR-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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References: <01KUQ94L4TAQ92AK35-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Sue wrote:

> A lagerphone is actually metal beer bottle caps nailed to a stick -
> see:

> http://www.wongawillicolonialdance.org.au/ausfolk_articles/bush_percussion.htm


Okay, so what's the beer cans in a frame?  I swear I've seen a picture of 
that.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:20:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:18:49 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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<>

To this guitarist's eyes, it certainly looks like a killer on fiddle; how is
it on, say, flute or recorder?

On a similar note, we made a discovery the hard way last Friday. "Softly
Good Tummas" is a good tune on the fiddle, but has more range than a
recorder can handle, the B part essentially being the A part up an octave.
Unfortunately, our only melody instrument was recorder last week, and he was
reduced to playing the same thing over and over for both the A and B, which
confused the dancers no end. After a while, by mutual consent, we switched
to "Nail That Catfish to a Tree", which suits the dance admirably.

Peace,
Paul





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:21:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:21:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Vincent 
Subject: Re: dance-tune
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Considering the original meaning of the word 'jazz'
conjures up some very interesting imagery!

--- Graham Christian  wrote:

*snip*

> There is good precedent for this--Playford editions
> have many examples of attempts to jazz up old tunes
> for contemporary taste, or elaborate or simplify the
> figures... 



=====
Tom Vincent

May you work like you don't need the money,
Love like you've never been hurt,
And dance like no-one is watching.

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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:25:21 PST
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Return-Path: 
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:24:49 -0400
From: "wlinden-AT-panix.com" 
Subject: RE: Kettle Drum
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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 The assymetry in the latter portion of The Kettle Drum is so marked that I
have concluded that Playford, or his informant, or his typesetter simply
left out one measure.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Dawn C. Culbertson dcculb-AT-juno.com
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:29:49 -0400
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Kettle Drum


Recently, the English dancers in my area (myself included) were fortunate
enough to have Helene Cornelius call a program, with Jacqueline Schwab
accompanying. But during the course of the dance, Helene said something
that rather astonished me--and is sort of relevant to the one tune/one
dance discussion that's been going on. She said that no one to date has
figured out the instructions to "Kettle Drum," a circle dance for 8 that
appears in the first edition of Playford, although a number of dances
have been composed to its tune since then. Has anyone made a stab at
trying to figure out the instructions to date? I'd be curious to hear
what, if anything, anyone has come up with.

Dawn Culbertson
Baltimore, MD

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:29:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 12:29:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kettle Drum
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030415192924.55269.qmail-AT-web20604.mail.yahoo.com>
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Like most interpreters, I've looked at Kettle Drum
too. "Sure. Sure. That's obvious. That's
obvious...What? Uh-oh."
Which is why there are four or five OTHER dances to
the tune. 
There are other little Scylla-and-Charybdis moments in
1651 and elsewhere.

=====
Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:35:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:32:47 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Softly...
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030415132958.00b87438-AT-popserver.panix.com>
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References: 

At 01:18 PM 4/15/2003 -0500, Paul Stamler wrote:

>On a similar note, we made a discovery the hard way last Friday. "Softly
>Good Tummas" is a good tune on the fiddle, but has more range than a
>recorder can handle, the B part essentially being the A part up an octave.
>Unfortunately, our only melody instrument was recorder last week, and he was
>reduced to playing the same thing over and over for both the A and B, which
>confused the dancers no end. After a while, by mutual consent, we switched
>to "Nail That Catfish to a Tree", which suits the dance admirably.

Oh, Paul, you've _got_ to send Andrew Shaw a copy of "Nail That Catfish to 
a Tree"!  Much too wonderful.
Cheers,
Sharon Green

P.S.  Send me one too! 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 13:37:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:36:23 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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The tune is lovely on fiddle or recorder (and probably any instrument). It
is not particularly "hard" to play (except I always have a more difficult
time not goofing up melodies that bounce around a lot) and it might be
difficult on a limited-key instrument such as a penny whistle because of
the accidentals. Personally I prefer it at a slower tempo than what is
comfortable for dancing so it always feels a little rushed when I play it
for dancers.
Cammy



                                                                                                                            
                      Paul Stamler                                                                                          
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                             
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                  
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: Sadler's Wells                                         
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                           
                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                            
                      15-Apr-2003 02:18 PM                                                                                  
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                 
                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                            




<>

To this guitarist's eyes, it certainly looks like a killer on fiddle; how
is
it on, say, flute or recorder?

On a similar note, we made a discovery the hard way last Friday. "Softly
Good Tummas" is a good tune on the fiddle, but has more range than a
recorder can handle, the B part essentially being the A part up an octave.
Unfortunately, our only melody instrument was recorder last week, and he
was
reduced to playing the same thing over and over for both the A and B, which
confused the dancers no end. After a while, by mutual consent, we switched
to "Nail That Catfish to a Tree", which suits the dance admirably.

Peace,
Paul









================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:11:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:10:45 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9C7555.2020901-AT-sbcglobal.net>
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References: 

Actually, in this case the band explicitly requested it.  Kalia (my 
wife, for those who don't know us) is calling a dance on Sunday at which 
I'll be playing, so I had the rare opportunity to pressure the caller 
into letting me play some of my favorite tunes that I never get to play.

Susie's point is a good one, though; I don't mean to suggest otherwise. 
 And I'll restate my general rule about tunes that go above the B that's 
written above the first ledger line above the treble-clef staff: if 
you're going to do a dance with a tune like that and your band has a 
fiddle player in it, be sure he or she is ok with it, because there are 
any number of perfectly good fiddle players who don't go out of first 
position.  There are probably similar guidelines about recorders and 
flutes and other commonly-used melody instruments; maybe some players 
could propose some.

Susan R. Lorand wrote:

>this is one of the tunes that i think musicians need to be able to veto.
>it's a killer on many instruments.  if you have a band that can do it
>justice, great!
>
>susie lorand
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:31:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:30:35 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jon wrote:
"...
Susie's point is a good one, though; I don't mean to suggest otherwise.
 And I'll restate my general rule about tunes that go above the B that's
written above the first ledger line above the treble-clef staff: if
you're going to do a dance with a tune like that and your band has a
fiddle player in it, be sure he or she is ok with it, because there are
any number of perfectly good fiddle players who don't go out of first
position.  There are probably similar guidelines about recorders and
flutes and other commonly-used melody instruments; maybe some players
could propose some."...

If you play it as written in Dm, Sadler's Wells should be well within first
position. Unless I read the manuscript wrong, the highest note is the A
above the staff.
CK

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:32:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:18:39 -0500
From: Susan Burt 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Softly...
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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References:  <5.2.0.9.0.20030415132958.00b87438-AT-popserver.panix.com>

Now that "Softly, Good Tummas" has come up on the list, does anyone 
have any enlightening hints about the title?  Is "Tummas" a variant 
on the name "Thomas"?  if so, from when and where?  Could not find 
"tummas" in the OED, so I suspect it's a name, but....?

Susan Burt
-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
602 Normal Avenue
Normal, IL 61761

309-888-2704

smburt-AT-ilstu.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 15:35:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:35:12 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Kettle Drum
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001601c3039f$47175260$0300a8c0-AT-ntworld.com>
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In addition to various bands who use the tune Kettle Drum for anything that
will work (its an excellent tune) there are several interpretations of the
dance over here in the UK.  I will post mine on my web site as soon as I
have finished preparing the music for Eastbourne Folk Festival.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Dawn C. Culbertson
Sent: 15 April 2003 17:30
To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Kettle Drum


Recently, the English dancers in my area (myself included) were fortunate
enough to have Helene Cornelius call a program, with Jacqueline Schwab
accompanying. But during the course of the dance, Helene said something that
rather astonished me--and is sort of relevant to the one tune/one dance
discussion that's been going on. She said that no one to date has figured
out the instructions to "Kettle Drum," a circle dance for 8 that appears in
the first edition of Playford, although a number of dances have been
composed to its tune since then. Has anyone made a stab at trying to figure
out the instructions to date? I'd be curious to hear what, if anything,
anyone has come up with.

Dawn Culbertson
Baltimore, MD

________________________________________________________________
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Visit www.juno.com



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Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:40:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:39:47 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sadler's Wells
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9C9843.3040704-AT-sbcglobal.net>
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References: 



Campbell Kaynor wrote:

>If you play it as written in Dm, Sadler's Wells should be well within first
>position. Unless I read the manuscript wrong, the highest note is the A
>above the staff.
>CK
>
>
>  
>
You're undoubtedly correct about that.  I didn't mean to suggest that 
Sadler's Wells went out of first position; I was just making a general 
statement following on Susie's point that there are some tunes that 
should be subject to a musician veto.  But you're right, I wasn't clear.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:43:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 16:43:30 -0700
From: Jon Berger 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

>Okay, so what's the beer cans in a frame?  I swear I've seen a picture of 
>that.
>  
>
Australian for "fine art."

  -- Jon

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:40:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:40:15 -0700
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kettle Drum
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3E9CA66E.76C3C913-AT-opendoor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <001601c3039f$47175260$0300a8c0-AT-ntworld.com>

Chris and I have written one of the dances that use Kettle Drum as the tune.
It's called Puck's Deceit, was published in CDSS news several years ago and has
been on a number of ball programs around the US. We didn't know it, but about
the same time Gary Roodman wrote a dance to same tune called Laisteridge Lane
published in Sum Further Calculated Figures and recorded on Old Friends, a very
nice album of tunes for Gary's dances.

We used Kettle Drum because 1) we loved the tune, 2) we tried to reconstruct it
and, as Graham said, went '"Sure. Sure. That's obvious. That's obvious...What?
Uh-oh."', and 3) at the time knew of no reconstruction or other modern dance to
that tune.

Shortly thereafter (and before we knew about Gary's dance) we wrote
Impropriety, which uses Milleson's Jig (also Playford 1st edition) as the tune.
We don't know of any other dances or danced reconstruction to this tune.
However once we learned of Gary's dance (and several others to Kettle Drum) and
inquired about a few other tunes we were interested in to find that most were
being used in one form or another, we decided to leave Playford tunes alone.

We would prefer not to create competing dances to the same tune. As far as one
dance/one tune, the main thing I have difficulty with is when someone takes a
great dance which is matched to a fabulous tune that has been widely danced for
a long time and decides to write a new dance to it...my body falls apart and
has to go sit down.

This list would be a great place for dance devisors to say 'hey I'm thinking of
using this old tune for a dance - any other new dances/usable  reconstructions
out there (in which case I may not use it)'. Also nice to know if certain
choreographers are working with 'the tunes of' - Victor Skowronski and Susato
come to mind.

If you're interested, you can see some of our dances at
http://www.opendoor.com/heatherandrose/dances_brookeandchris.html
I just need to figure out how to get the sheet music on the web

Brooke Friendly
Ashland OR USA


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Dawn C. Culbertson
> Sent: 15 April 2003 17:30
> To: ECD-AT-ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Kettle Drum
>
> Recently, the English dancers in my area (myself included) were fortunate
> enough to have Helene Cornelius call a program, with Jacqueline Schwab
> accompanying. But during the course of the dance, Helene said something that
> rather astonished me--and is sort of relevant to the one tune/one dance
> discussion that's been going on. She said that no one to date has figured
> out the instructions to "Kettle Drum," a circle dance for 8 that appears in
> the first edition of Playford, although a number of dances have been
> composed to its tune since then. Has anyone made a stab at trying to figure
> out the instructions to date? I'd be curious to hear what, if anything,
> anyone has come up with.
>
> Dawn Culbertson
> Baltimore, MD
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:29:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:28:36 -0700
From: Alan Ackerman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>For Sue Dupre:
>
>We just danced "Australian Ladies" at Scottish Country Dancing this 
>evening. If
>you would like the dance directions, please e-mail me at catiegeist-AT-att.net.
>
>Catie Condran Geist

I just did that one a week ago Monday for the first time. It is 
hectic, even for SCD. (I made hash of it, of course. I still can't 
keep up both footwork and pattern at high speed, alas.) Quite 
possibly it is a barn dance in origin. It certainly is fun, but I 
don't know that you'd want to do it at a wedding unless everyone has 
dance experience. (Ditto for the Prime Minister, which better dancers 
than I had trouble with.)

-- 
Alan Ackerman, alan.ackerman-AT-earthlink.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 18:48:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:47:09 -0400
From: Blank 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left, right...&c.
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I can only repeat that Genny Shimer said, when asked from the dance 
floor which foot to lead off from, " It really doesn't matter." When 
teaching beginners, I concur completely. Giving a presentation, in 
contrast, demands a synchrony that needn't be imposed in a casual setting.

-- 
Albert Blank


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:38:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:38:10 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan wrote:
>
> I just did that one a week ago Monday for the first time. It is
> hectic, even for SCD. (I made hash of it, of course. I still can't
> keep up both footwork and pattern at high speed, alas.) Quite
> possibly it is a barn dance in origin. It certainly is fun, but I
> don't know that you'd want to do it at a wedding unless everyone has
> dance experience.

"Australian Ladies" is a modern composition, based on 18th c. stock figures.
What makes it complicated for beginners or early intermediates is having
"meanwhile" figures in the second half of the dance.  Try looking at just
the 1s part; you'll realize that the 1s can dance those "cross and casts"
just fine without the 2s and 3s doing anything at all.  Those changes around
the outside for the 2s and 3s are there to enliven the dance for the
supporting couples.

You're right; it's not a dance to do at a wedding, or anywhere else, if all
the folks aren't experienced (or drunk).


Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 19:50:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 22:43:29 -0400
From: Gene Murrow 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left, right...&c.
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030415.224351.-135443.22.gmurrow-AT-juno.com>
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While it's true that it (often) doesn't matter, IMHO it's better to
specify a foot when teaching beginners.  Getting into the habit of
starting on a specific foot is actually easier than trying to move on the
"either foot."   My experience as a teacher, and no reliable source that
I can name, tells me that when learning a brand new skill, especially a
motor skill, limiting choices at the beginning helps.

When pressed with a direct question from a dancer (that's one way of
telling who the Scottish dancers are in the crowd   ) I say "it
often doesn't matter.  In this class we'll start on the right foot, but
don't worry excessively about it."

Was it Maryanne Taylor who said with a big smile to a group of Scottish
dancers learning English, "I'll tell you which foot, because CDSS never
will!" ?

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Musician, Caller, wondering and trying to remember what, if
anything, Piaget or Dalcroze had to say on the subject...


On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:47:09 -0400 Blank 
writes:
> I can only repeat that Genny Shimer said, when asked from the dance 
> floor which foot to lead off from, " It really doesn't matter." When 
> 
> teaching beginners, I concur completely. Giving a presentation, in 
> contrast, demands a synchrony that needn't be imposed in a casual 
> setting.
> 
> -- 
> Albert Blank
> 
> 
> 
> 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 07:05:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 09:05:28 -0500
From: "Susan M. Burt" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: attitude
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Gene Murrow wrote:

>
>Was it Maryanne Taylor who said with a big smile to a group of Scottish
>dancers learning English, "I'll tell you which foot, because CDSS never
>will!" ?

I don't know about this quotation, but I think that it was Maryanne 
Taylor who, when teaching a workshop on ECD here in Illinois, 
described the proper frame of mind for dancing by saying, "Be serene, 
dammit!"  We loved it, obviously.

Susan Burt

-- 
O, wae upon you, Men o' State
That brethren rouse in deadly hate!
As ye mak monie a fond heart mourn,
Sae may it on your heads return!

--Robert Burns, "Logan Water," 1793

Susan Meredith Burt
English Department, Campus Box 4240
Illinois State University
Normal,  IL 61790-4240 USA

309-438-7601
smburt-AT-ilstu.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 08:00:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:59:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: How to get the sheet music on the web (was Re: Kettle Drum)
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: friendsack-AT-opendoor.com
Message-ID: <156.1e479c83.2bcec9dc-AT-aol.com>
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Brooke wrote:

 >If you're interested, you can see some of our dances at
 >http://www.opendoor.com/heatherandrose/dances_brookeandchris.html
 >I just need to figure out how to get the sheet music on the web

I would urge you to consider the abc music notation protocol. This
is exactly the kind of thing it was designed for and it does it very
well.

To quote the inventor (see home page link, below):

 >abc is a language designed to notate tunes in an ascii format.
 >It was designed primarily for folk and traditional tunes of
 >Western European origin (such as English, Irish and Scottish)
 >which can be written on one stave in standard classical
 >notation.

It is easy to learn how to use and it can make your music
accessible to those who have not learned it (it will help you make
gif's and midi's of your tunes).

Some URL's to get you started:

abc home page:
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/

John Chambers' tune finder:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html

An example of how you might use it to present your tunes:
http://www.concertina.net/tunes.html

On-line abc translator:
http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

Don't leave home without it:
http://www.palmabc.ganderband.com/
http://www.biff.org.uk/dave/software/abcviewer/index.html

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:04:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 13:04:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" 
Subject: Request from Bob Keller for Assistance with Comilation of an ECD Resource
To: ECD Mailing List 
CC: rmkeller-AT-comcast.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <57987.148.184.176.32.1050512668.squirrel-AT-63.122.103.150>
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Posted at the request of Bob Keller.

/Roger Broseus

+ - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - + - +
Wanted: Dancing Computists.

Would you like to have your name on a dance research database? I am
working on a project to scan, edit and publish Early English Country Dance
Resources on the web. The publication would be quite similar to The
Dancing Master database published in 2001. This time I will do all the
known dance resources published by John Walsh, from 1708 to late 18th
century. I am working under the sponsorship of the English Folk Dance and
Song Society (EFDSS). It is a no cost (to EFDSS) project.

What is involved is editing and cleaning-up of images of the pages. I have
found that it takes about 5-10 minuites per image, using PhotoShop. I can
scan them on my computer, and send them to each researcher to process and
return. I am working on a PC, but I could send .JPG or .GIF images that
could be read by either Windows or Mac.

Some sources have several hundred images, so it isn't something to knock
off on a Saturday afternoon, but you would have your name listed as a
co-compiler, both on web pages and probably other national or
international catalogs. The Dancing Master database was cataloged as a
publication by OCLC, which is the main US national catalog of published
material.

If there is interest, I may also produce a CD-ROM, as I did for the
Playford dances.

No one is going to make a lot of money on this project but it will be a
significant contribution to scholarship in early dance.

If you are interested, please respond, DIRECTLY to me, not to the
listserv, at rmkeller-AT-comcast.net.

Bob Keller
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 12:52:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 15:52:46 -0400
From: Blank 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Left, right...&c.
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <20030415.224351.-135443.22.gmurrow-AT-juno.com>

Thanks for the prod, Gene. I quite agree. In my last effusion, I should 
have said that Genny did add that it's customary to lead off on the 
right foot. Her point was, don't make a big issue of it. In a movement 
to the left it's natural to to step on the left. So, in The Bishop 
there's no harm in the first man casting with an initial step to the 
left, though he then misses the flirtation opportunity of stepping 
forward on the right and then turning away to the left. It would then be 
more natural to set left upon meeting the third woman. Lots of similar 
thoughts in other dances, but following Genny's example, I won't belabor 
the point.

Ciao,
Al


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 17:54:56 PST
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Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:54:26 +1000
From: "Garden, John (DPL)" 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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As one of the few Australians on the list, my apologies for coming in=
 late on this discussion - but I have been away the last week. My big=
gest apologies to Sue Dupre - as I've missed the wedding you were goi=
ng to be calling for... but I'm sure it went well... and, in case it =
is of interest to others more generally, in addition to the links whi=
ch have already been offered for instructions to and history of Austr=
alian 'bushdances' (they're not called barn dances as we don't have b=
arns... we do have sheds though and you do have the expression 'wools=
hed dances', but dances that are commonly called bushdances are not c=
onfirned to dancing in woolsheds), perhaps I could offer http://www.u=
sers.bigpond.com/mckelson/bushdance/index.htm (for instructions) and =
the end of my dancehistory page on my own site http://www.earthlydeli=
ghts.com.au/history.htm.=20

Although my own band doesn't bill itself as a 'bush band' (we like to=
 remain outside any box and do everything from pavans to tango, Playf=
ord to American contras, European folk to Vintage Ballroom) we have c=
ertainly led 'bushdancing' at hundreds of Australian weddings... and =
I think I can safetly say 'bushdancing' is defined more by the social=
 atmosphere and the participatory nature, than by any repertoire (lik=
e ceilidh dancing). Every caller will have a different repertoire and=
 that for most is made up of dances (and tunes) which came to our sho=
res from the U.K. and U.S. with the folk revival in the 1960s - with =
an injection of some more recent Irish, Scottish, American and even '=
International dance scene' favourites. There's been a lot of collecti=
ng of old quadrille figures etc but these are not widely recognised b=
eyond the 'Colonial Dance' scene... and the couples dances which once=
 flourished here in a thousand improvisations survive in the modern b=
ushdance scene only in the form of a few rump-end-of-tradition sequen=
ces. Much of the sound and look of a 'typical' bushband is also a mod=
ern development... but it is what a lot of Australian think of as 'tr=
aditional' Australian music and dance ... and if I were to think of t=
hree dances that most Australians at home or abroad are likely to ass=
ociate with an Australian bushdance - and three which are very simple=
 to teach, I'd probably go for (though list members recognise them as=
 not original Australian dances) the galopede, strip the willow and t=
he brown jug polka (see the link above for instructions).=20

If anyone on the list really wants to dance original Australian dance=
s (most in styles you could use at an English Country Dance) you are =
welcome to check out my own 'Lost Dances' or 'Christmas Carol Dances'=
 at www.earthlydelights.com.au. Beware though. While a lot of Austral=
ian bushdancers will treasure their own repertoire as pure (not appre=
ciating that 80% has been imported in the last 40 years), they would =
not regard my own music and dances as Australian. My band members and=
 band followers find this endlessly amusing. When people come up and =
ask where we/our music/our dance come from, if we say Australia or Ca=
nberra - 9 out of 10 people will point blank refuse to believe us - j=
ust because we dress neatly, speak in an educated manner, play instru=
ments such as a hurdy-gurdy, soprano sax, cello and djembe, move into=
 minor keys, and include a hungarian who plays the viola in the three=
-string-triple-stopping central European manner. It took a delegation=
 from overseas parliaments for whom we were playing once to see throu=
gh all this, for when I was half way going through the inputs into ou=
r music in answer to their question about our it's origin, they said =
'Enough. It's Australian!'. Hope people in the U.S. and U.K. is equal=
ly broad minded about what constitutes English Country Dancing - and =
if ever we make it over to play for or lead dancing there will say 'I=
ts Country Dancing - in the English tradition but with an antipodean =
twist' (and hopefully not everyone over there expects antipodean cult=
ure to go no further than a beer can in a frame).

=20

-----Original Message-----
=46rom: Patricia Ruggiero [mailto:ruggierop-AT-earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 12:38 PM
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: RE: Australian barn dances


Alan wrote:
>
> I just did that one a week ago Monday for the first time. It is
> hectic, even for SCD. (I made hash of it, of course. I still can't
> keep up both footwork and pattern at high speed, alas.) Quite
> possibly it is a barn dance in origin. It certainly is fun, but I
> don't know that you'd want to do it at a wedding unless everyone ha=
s
> dance experience.

"Australian Ladies" is a modern composition, based on 18th c. stock f=
igures.
What makes it complicated for beginners or early intermediates is hav=
ing
"meanwhile" figures in the second half of the dance.  Try looking at =
just
the 1s part; you'll realize that the 1s can dance those "cross and ca=
sts"
just fine without the 2s and 3s doing anything at all.  Those changes=
 around
the outside for the 2s and 3s are there to enliven the dance for the
supporting couples.

You're right; it's not a dance to do at a wedding, or anywhere else, =
if all
the folks aren't experienced (or drunk).


Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 18:49:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:49:05 +1000
From: jared gottlieb 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Australian barn dances
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: 

Energetic: Strip the Willow or Baker's Wife

Quadrille: A figure of the Lancers

Couples:
Pride of Erin
Maxina

The site that John Garden suggested: http://www.users.bigpond.com/mckelson/bushdance/index.htm
has several of these

for the maxina: http://www.bushmusic.org.au/ball_dances.html#maxina

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:09:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:09:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417100919.16645.qmail-AT-web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Campbell Kaynor  wrote:
> In my experience "Any tune will do" only if one has the most
> exquisitely talented musicians who are capable of making any tune
> say anything. We do what we can to ennunciate the figures when we
> play but many melodies only speak one dance easily.

Whether "Any tune will do" works, is dependent upon the musicians'
experience and ability to chose tunes. Ted Sanella once said that by
the time he'd finished teaching a dance for which he didn't specify a
tune, Mary Lea would have picked two or three tunes that were a good
match. He said that Mary is particularly good at listening to the
dance instructions and finding appropriate tunes. He also said that
he would make a note of the tunes on his dance card for use in the
future.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:24:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:24:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417102403.2042.qmail-AT-web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "Emily L. Ferguson"  wrote:
> ...pianos are hard to play and hard to tune and hard to lug around.


I had to laugh at this because I had the image in my mind of the two
Japanese men who moved the piano into our house when we lived in
Japan, back in 1953-55. The house was one of three in a compound on a
bluff somewhat above the street level. There was a small parking area
at the bottom with a long flight of stairs to the level of the
compound (I don't remember how many stairs there were, but it seemed
like a long way up to a 5 year old). The Japanese (at least at that
time) carried cumbersome loads by wrapping a long piece of cloth
around them and hoisting them up on their backs. That is the way this
big upright piano was carried up that flight of stairs and across the
compound to our house, on the back of one man. The other followed
behind to help steady the load. 

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:38:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:38:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance, was Hallmark
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417103830.66222.qmail-AT-web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Orly Krasner  wrote:
> ...(who has absolutely no vested interest in this
> discussion, and if you believe that, I have a very nice piece of
> beachfront property in Arizona for sale. . . .)

Have you sold that bridge across the East River?

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:51:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 03:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417105114.40010.qmail-AT-web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "wlinden-AT-panix.com"  wrote:
>   I feel obliged to remind the list that we constantly do dances
> which are 'not the one that goes with that music'.

I find it very difficult when someone sustitutes a tune that goes
with another dance that I've known for years. One occurance that I
found particularly disturbing was several years ago at the Portland
Ball when All Saints Day was done to the tune commonly used for The
Chestnut. The music absolutely was telling me to do a different
dance, one with which I was very familiar. I don't know what tune was
used by George Fogg when we did that dance at his Washington's
Birthday Ball years ago, but it wasn't a familiar tune that told me
to do something different. I remember Brad Sayler teaching it at a
Wednesday night dance a couple months later.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:09:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 04:09:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417110925.48455.qmail-AT-web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com wrote:
> There's another aspect to having historically accurate dances in
> filmed dramas -- movies or TV.  How does it look to a camera -- and
> therefore the audience.
>      <>
> At least they make some effort now -- despite that they fall short.
>  Back in the golden days of Hollywood, it wasn't even an issue.

In some movies (I'm thinking particularly of Fred and Ginger movies)
the dance was an important enough part that the dialogue pretty much
stopped while they were dancing. Fred Astaire insisted upon always
being filmed full figure during dance sequences, something that I
find annoying when it _doesn't_ happen (but then I'm watching the
dancing and not caring nearly as much about the conversation). Many
of the classic dance movies would not be nearly as good if all they
showed was the upper body. Often modern movies do too much zooming
and changing of camera angles and loose the overall effect of the
dance because all those little pieces aren't cohesive. 

For that matter, I've got a lot of really boring full figure still
photos of cloggers.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:12:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 10:10:59 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One tune--One dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: 
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I do something similar:
I have a member of the band (usually the piano player - assuming it is a
contra) keep a list of the dances I call and the tunes we use at each
dance. If a tune seems particularly ill-suited, they write a large X over
its name in the list, if it is just average - no mark, and if it is
particularly good, we underline and circle it so that there is some chance
I will call for that selection again. Having the list has side benefits.
First it lets me know if I am "stagnating" in terms of the repertoire I
bring to the dance community from week-to-week or even for monthly dances
and secondly it makes a nice inventory for sit-in musicians to browse if
they want to identify likely tunes etc...
Cammy



                                                                                                                                   
                      Andy Peterson                                                                                                
                                   To:       ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                    
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                         
                      owner-ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: One tune--One dance                                           
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                      17-Apr-2003 06:09 AM                                                                                         
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




--- Campbell Kaynor  wrote:
> In my experience "Any tune will do" only if one has the most
> exquisitely talented musicians who are capable of making any tune
> say anything. We do what we can to ennunciate the figures when we
> play but many melodies only speak one dance easily.

Whether "Any tune will do" works, is dependent upon the musicians'
experience and ability to chose tunes. Ted Sanella once said that by
the time he'd finished teaching a dance for which he didn't specify a
tune, Mary Lea would have picked two or three tunes that were a good
match. He said that Mary is particularly good at listening to the
dance instructions and finding appropriate tunes. He also said that
he would make a note of the tunes on his dance card for use in the
future.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:43:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:43:43 -0400
From: SFORDNYC-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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And the other thing about Astair's dance sequences is the long long takes.  There's very little cutting -- just very skillful camera work following the dancers.  So you really are looking at people dancing (which of course was his intention).

I learned to notice these things from years of watching movies/TV with my filmmaker/director father -- who dispelled all notions of illusion.

Suzanne
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:01:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 12:59:23 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030417.141242.-1657355.10.AllisonThompson-AT-juno.com>
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Last night I watched the first Pride & Prejudice movie, the one with
Greer Garson & Laurence Olivier. It is delightfully anachronistic, with
the heroines in costumes ca. 1830/GWTW/Hollywood, '40s style. The initial
ballroom sequence, where Elizabeth meets Darcy & he exhibits his
pridefulness is also terribly anachronistic--they dance a mazurka & a
complicated type of non-Regency quadrille that involves characters
meeting and parting in between quips. It is, however, *excellent*
choreography for the movie, which is, after all, what the director wants.
I highly recommend the entire movie, though Olivier is not my *beau
ideal* for Mr. Darcy. Nor for Heathcliffe, either, come to think of it.

Allison Thompson 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:11:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 13:07:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Allison wrote:

> Last night I watched the first Pride & Prejudice movie, the one with
> Greer Garson & Laurence Olivier. It is delightfully anachronistic, with
> the heroines in costumes ca. 1830/GWTW/Hollywood, '40s style. The initial
> ballroom sequence, where Elizabeth meets Darcy & he exhibits his
> pridefulness is also terribly anachronistic--they dance a mazurka & a
> complicated type of non-Regency quadrille that involves characters
> meeting and parting in between quips. It is, however, *excellent*
> choreography for the movie, which is, after all, what the director wants.
> I highly recommend the entire movie, though Olivier is not my *beau
> ideal* for Mr. Darcy. Nor for Heathcliffe, either, come to think of it.

I find that film tolerable only if I can manage to forget that it's supposed to
have anything to do with Austen.  I think Lady Catherine is significantly
mischaracterized, that Greer Garson is almost-completely wrong for the part
(too old, doesn't seem intellectually nimble enough, but is at least female),
and the social relations of the 1840s are different enough from those of 1813
that the plot doesn't sit altogether well in the new setting.

My girlfriend, the vintage clothing collector, says that actual dresses from
GWTW appear in this film.  It's very odd to note that Aldous Huxley worked on
it.

-- Alan

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:56:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:48:32 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hallmark Hall of Dance Reconstruction - Garson/Olivier Film
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan wrote:

My girlfriend, the vintage clothing collector, says that actual dresses
from
GWTW appear in this film.  It's very odd to note that Aldous Huxley
worked on
it.


I'm interested to hear this! You can easily see the hoop skirts--all they
had to do was alter the sleeves and the decolletage.

Part of the recurring joke that I like in the P & P Garson/Olivier movie
is the use of music by Mussorsky--I always think of it as chicken
music--as the girls are tripping down the street in a little flock. They
were clearly told to take eentsy beentsy steps to make it look as if they
were gliding around--tres droll!

And, yes, Aldous! Why Aldous? What Aldous? Well, this was just a little
after the period that P.G. Wodehouse was paid fantastic sums to work on
"treatments" for scripts that then never saw the light of day--his 5 or 6
Hollywood-based stories about the sillinesses of the movie industry are
some of his very best.

"Yeah," said Mr. Ivor Llewelleyn of the Medulla-Oblungata-Superba movie
company, shooting his cigar from one side of his face to the other
without touching it, "this has the mucus of a good story!"

Allison Thompson

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 18:12:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 01:12:20 +0000
From: Orly Krasner 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: bridge for sale, was one tune/dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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,>>I have a very nice piece of
> > beachfront property in Arizona for sale. . . .)
>
>Have you sold that bridge across the East River?
>

In the immortal words of PT Barnum, "There's a sucker born every minute. . . 
."
--Orly Krasner 

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:49:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 02:46:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing 
Subject: List on auto-pilot for a week
To: ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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ECDers --

I'm leaving Saturday afternoon for a week's jaunt involving Cirque du 
Soleil, the CDSS Board, and NEFFA.  There's no guarantee that I'll be
checking email anytime before my return, very late on the 27th.

[To be clear, the players mentioned above are involved serially, not 
sequentially.]

Try to control any tendencies toward flameage in my absence.

Best to all.

-- Alan (list-owner)

-- 
===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:38:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:39:14 -0400
From: Susan 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CDNY Regency Evening Tues. 4/22 (tomorrow!)
To: ecd-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-generalist.org
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Not my usual workshop announcement (that's coming soon), but an event
which may be of interest to the NYC-area folks:

Tomorrow evening, April 22nd, 7:00-10:15pm, in Manhattan, Country
Dance New York will be holding "Elegant Madness", a Regency evening
called/taught by Beverly Francis and myself.  This will be an
interesting mix of modern English country dances with Regency
connections and my own reconstructions.

General information is here:

http://www.cdny.org/english.html

Susan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:30:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 17:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Giovanni De 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Ball; Los Angeles, California
To: ecdlist ecdlist 
CC: jim garner , mary ann sereth , bob brooks , kris larsson , annie laskey 
Message-ID: <20030422003018.10910.qmail-AT-web40410.mail.yahoo.com>
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Good day all.

South Bay English Country Dance announces the 
Third Annual Southern California Playford Ball

This year's ball will be the Rose Ball, and it will be
held on saturday, 4 october, at historical Throop
Church in Pasadena, CA.

Dance mistress: Annie Laskey, with music by the South
Bay Maggots (Kris Larsson, MaryAnn Sereth, Jim Garner
and Bob Brooks).

there will be a dance review on friday 3 october in
Santa Ana.

for more information check the web page
(www.geocities.com/sbecd; follow the links to
"calendar" or to "playford"); a paper copy of the
flier will be gladly mailed to anyone who requests it.

the program will include:
All Saints' day
Amarillis
Constancy
Country Farmer
Doubtful Shepherd
Draper's Garden
Faithless Nancy Dawson
Green Willow
Heidenroselein
John Tallis Canon *
Mount Hills
Picking up Sticks
Room for Ramblers
Rural Sports *
Smithy Hill
St. Margareth's Hill *
Three Ladies Yard
Waterfall Waltz
the Willow Tree
* = previous experience strongly reccomended

Giovanni De Amici



=====
for information about English Country Dance 
in and around Los Angeles, please check our web
page at: www.geocities.com/sbecd

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:05:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 00:03:28 -0500
From: Paul Stamler 
Subject: St. Louis Playford Ball Sat., April 26th
To: Paul Stamler 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001b01c3088c$8e96d880$296a550c-AT-paulstam>
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Hi folks:

Another reminder: This Saturday, April 26th, is the St. Louis English
Country Dancers' annual Playford Ball. It runs from 7:30-10:30 pm, and
features music by the Original Speckled Band, with dances led by Peter
Wollenberg, Missy Reisenleiter, Paul Stamler and Rebecca Taylor. Fancy dress
(your definition!) is encouraged but not explicitly required; please bring a
snack to share at the break. Out-of-town folks who need help finding a place
to stay, please get in touch ASAP. (In-town folks: See the P.S. at the end
of this message.)

The ball will be held at First Congregational Church (UCC), 6501 Wydown,
Clayton, MO (just outside the St. Louis City Limits) -- enter via the Wydown
driveway for the Washington University dormitories, then immediately turn
right into the church's parking lot. The cost is $12 / person, $20 / couple,
and $25 / family; student rate is $5.00.

All dances will be walked through; dances will be chosen from the following
list:

The Accomplished Maid
Auretti's Dutch Skipper
Bar a Bar
Bare Necessities
Dover Pier
Dublin Bay
Elizabeth
Fandango
First Lady
Geud Man of Ballingigh
Good Man of Cambridge
Handel With Care
Heartease
Lovely Nancy
John Tallis' Canon
Mount Hills
Orleans Baffled
Sarah
Scotch Cap
Sellenger's Round
Softly Good Tummas
Yellow Stockings

A splendid time is guaranteed for all.

Yr. ob't sec'y,
Paul J. Stamler
pstamler-AT-pobox.com
314-664-9207
Website: http://members.aol.com/paradiseMO/english.html

P.S. For in-town dancers, don't forget we also have our regular dance this
coming Monday, April 28th, at Focal Point, 7:00 pm. And the Salem Dancers'
ball is the following Saturday, May 3rd; details next week.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:23:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 08:23:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Country Dancers of Westchester 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: April Showers & Flowers
To: ECD List 
Message-ID: <20030422152310.20505.qmail-AT-web12203.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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We dance!

Helene Cornelius emcees.

It's Country Dancers of Westchester's Friday dance
party.

Friedman, Peek, Tepper play.

Church in the Highlands, White Plains, NY.8 - 11pm.

Expanded info: http://www.geocities.com/cdwestchester/

Admission $12; just $10 for C.D.W. members.

Famous refreshments at the break.

__________________________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 18:34:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 21:34:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Terence Gaffney 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pre-Neffa party
To: ecdlist ecdlist 
Message-ID: 
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Dear Friends,
 Those of you who will be in the area for NEFFA this week are invited to
our annual Pre-Neffa party dance this wednesday, 7:30-10:30 at the Park
Avenue Church in Arlington. Our leader tomorrow will be Brooke Friendly
from Oregon.

All of us in Boston take a great deal of pleasure in seeing list members
on our dance floor, so please come and celebrate with us!

For directions to the dance, please see our web site:
http://www.cds-boston.org/

Best,
 Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:28:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 22:29:59 +0100
From: Graham Knight 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: GUSTO
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <111B0A1C-7765-11D7-AA55-0003936BABDA-AT-gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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For those forum members who may be interested, GUSTO recently had its
latest conference on "Assessing your Dancers". If you would like to see
a copy of the proceedings the following link will take you to them.

http://www.withgusto.freeserve.co.uk/gconf3.htm

Thank you to Colin Hume for updating the GUSTO website.

Graham & Wendy Knight

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:31:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:30:52 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: GUSTO
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3EA9B71C.B280C5C2-AT-sbcglobal.net>
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References: <111B0A1C-7765-11D7-AA55-0003936BABDA-AT-gcknight.demon.co.uk>

Graham Knight wrote:
> 
> For those forum members who may be interested, GUSTO recently had its
> latest conference on "Assessing your Dancers". If you would like to see
> a copy of the proceedings the following link will take you to them.

Interesting stuff, and a very useful list of questions. 
They seem to have covered all the usual "gotchas" and
surprises one can find when going into an unfamiliar
situation.

K

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-sbcglobal.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 06:21:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:22:59 +1000
From: Aylwen Garden 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Big Weekend of Music & Dance 10 &11May in Canberra, Australia
To: "ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Anyone within reach of Canberra, Australia on the 10 & 11th of May is
invited to THE BIG WEEKEND OF EARTHLY DELIGHTS - 2 days and nights of music
and dance (mostly in the ECD style) at 2 of Canberra's best dance venues.

Workshops at St. John's Church Hall, Reid, 10am-12:30 and 1:30 to 4pm both
days, a Saturday evening dance at St. John's from 8pm and a Masquerade Ball
at Canberra's historic Albert Hall on the Sunday night at 7:30pm.

For more on the weekend as a whole see
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/may03pdf.pdf or
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/PressReleasemay03.pdf
For the Masquerade ball poster please see
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/maskball03.pdf

Come and make history by dancing all 64 dances in the "The Lost Dances of
Earthly Delights" (from the easiest to the most challenging!) in the one
weekend (and take home the complete instructions and music for everything
danced in the form of a book and 4 CDs). This is a rare opportunity not just
to enjoy this amazing repertoire but to do so with the people who,
literally, wrote the book (and recorded the CDs).

We already have people booked in from interstate, but no-one yet from
overseas! Though we don't seriously expect people to fly thousands of miles,
we did have a couple come from Tasmania for our Playford Ball 2 weeks ago
and that is kind of from overseas! Maybe, in addition to costume prizes we
can have a prize for whoever has come the furthest! We are happy to help
out-of-towners with accomodation.


Many thanks,
Aylwen Garden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au
Music, Dance & Costumes
-----------------------------------------------------





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 07:49:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 11:43:23 -0300
From: John Wood 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Big Weekend of Music & Dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004501c30d94$853b9020$8492e018-AT-johnwood>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: 

Hi, Aylwen

Sorry to use public e-mail, but was unable
to find your personal address.

There is a Jessica Beveridge, a Scottish country
dancer, who lives in Canberra and who used to
dance with me in our demonstration team in
Nova Scotia.

I am wondering if you know of her, and if you
do, if you could find out if she has an E-mail
address -- if you would not mind doing that?

Good luck for your event. Would love to be
there!

Regards, John

Subject: Big Weekend of Music & Dance 10 &11May in Canberra, Australia
> invited to THE BIG WEEKEND OF EARTHLY DELIGHTS - 2 days and nights of
music
> and dance (mostly in the ECD style) at 2 of Canberra's best dance venues.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:46:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Graham Christian 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Special announcement for this weekend (for dancers in greater New England)
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030429154632.89127.qmail-AT-web20608.mail.yahoo.com>
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The Amherst Assembly First Saturday dance continues
this Saturday, May 3rd, with a special evening
featuring some of the gems from the upcoming Hartford
Ball. Helen Davenport and Roselle MacDonald will lead,
and Roberta Sutter and Doug Creighton will play.

This year's Hartford Ball is a smashingly lovely
program of dances. If you can't attend the Ball itself
and can get to Amherst for this preview, by all means
do so; if you plan to attend the Ball and would like
to brush up on Helen and Roselle's selections, plan on
the Amherst Assembly. Helen and Roselle will teach
dances, but not figures, so some English Country Dance
experience will prove very helpful.

As ever, the dance will run from 7:45 to 10:45;
admission, $7.00. 

Directions to the Munson Library

Route 91 Northbound 

Take exit #19, turn right off ramp onto Route 9 East 
Follow directions from #3 below 
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Route 91 Southbound 
Take exit #20, Turn left at first light. 
Follow this road to end, turn left onto Route 9 East. 
Follow Route 9 into Amherst. 
Follow Route 116 South about 1/2 mile. 
Take shallow left onto Shays Road. 
Turn left around far side of South Amherst green. 
Munson Library is on your right next to South
Congregational Church. 
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From East via Mass Pike (Route 90) 
Take exit #8 at Palmer. 
Follow signs into Belchertown. 
Get on Route 9 West to Amherst. 
At traffic light, turn left onto South East Street
(Cumberland Farms on corner). 
Go about 3 miles. 
Stay to left of South Amherst green. 
Munson Library is on left across street from the green
next to South Congregational Church. 
 
Questions? Call Graham Christian at 617-566-1972.

=====
Graham Christian
"They love dance well that will dance among thorns."

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 08:50:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:50:46 -0400
From: Susan 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NYC Regency Dance Workshop Sunday 5/4
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-generalist.org
Message-ID: 
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(Regular monthly posting)


For the New York City-accessible and historically curious:
(who should note that there is a Yankees game Sunday which will make traffic
horrible - leave early if you travel through the Bronx or upper Manhattan)

EAS Regency Dance Workshop
Sunday, May 4, 2003  1:00-4:00pm

This is my regular monthly workshop on dances suitable for early
nineteenth century (Regency, Jane Austen, Napoleonic Wars) England.  

Sneak preview:

Country Dance Figures 
	- Haste to the Wedding
	- The Downfall of Paris, first (easy) part
	- St. Quinton (Spanish dance, = a waltz country dance)

Step Sequences for
	- down the middle and up again
	- casting off
	- the initial sequence in Haste to the Wedding

Wilson's New [Scotch] Reel of Three with Peacock's Minor Kemkossy setting step

Slow Waltz with music from Thomas Tegg (1825)


This is more detail than appears on my calendar at the moment, but
the full calendar for (mostly) first Sunday Regency workshops is
at: http://www.elegantarts.org/calendar03.html

All material is taken directly from primary sources and reconstructed
by yours truly.  If you have questions about it, email me directly.

Cost is $15 in general; $10 if this is your first time at one of our
workshops.  Full-year subscriptions are $160 (a small savings), payable
in quarterly payments.

PLEASE RSVP to: meredith-AT-elegantarts.org - the number of people we
are expecting affects how I prepare for the class!

Location:
Hop, Swing, and a Jump, 132 Crosby Street #2
for directions, see our webpage, http://www.elegantarts.org/classprac.html/

For more information about the Elegant Arts Society, please see our website:
http://www.elegantarts.org

To receive these announcements directly, please email
info-AT-elegantarts.org to be added to our mailing list.


Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:45:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 11:45:42 -0700
From: "Ed St.Germain" 
Subject: Independence Day Ball
To: ECD list 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3EAEC855.BE74BF92-AT-AmericanRevolution.org>
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List:

For those in California, and those perhaps planning on visiting this
summer, you may want to note the Independence Day Ball to be held on
July 5th in Norwalk (about 15 miles south-east of L.A.)

Details can be found at:
http://englishcountrydancing.org/IDBall.html

Best regards,
Ed


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:07:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:07:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dfhart24-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: One more plug for coping without piano
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37.37e119a6.2be0518d-AT-aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_KcYntXKj2bPdPBlCbYSJ8g)"


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In a message dated 4/2/2003 6:02:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
dpentlarge-AT-kurzweiltech.com writes:

> Sorry to disappoint you, but I cannot disagree.  I think of the dance band
> as an urban phenomenon, economic only where there is a larger dance, either
> because it's a city dance, or because of a special festival or camp
> gathering.  When I think, for instance, of the dances described by Jane
> Austen, only one or two that I can think of were really balls that might
> have had a band; most were impromptu affairs of an evening with one person
> at the harpsichord or pianoforte.  I don't see why a fiddler or recorder
> player wouldn't be sufficient for a smaller home circle.  Would that more 
> of
> us had drawing rooms large enough even for that!
> Yours from the banks of the Charles,
> Daniel Pentlarge
> 

---Not in a drawing room and not a Jane Austen ball, *but* my very first 
experience of contra dancing was in the longish, narrow living room of my 
friend's grandmother, in New Marlboro, Massachusetts.  I had gone home with 
her from college to spend  Thanksgiving weekend with her family at their 
place in the country.  A family friend rode over *on his horse* and pulled 
out his fiddle.  And, then we danced.  A single fiddle, but ample enough.   
I, a city girl (well, suburban bred) was enchanted and forever smitten.  That 
experience affected much in my later life. . .

Deborah

--Boundary_(ID_KcYntXKj2bPdPBlCbYSJ8g)
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In a message dated 4/2/2003 6:02:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpentlarge-AT-kurzweiltech.com writes:




Sorry to disappoint you, but I cannot disagree.  I think of the dance band

as an urban phenomenon, economic only where there is a larger dance, either

because it's a city dance, or because of a special festival or camp

gathering.  When I think, for instance, of the dances described by Jane

Austen, only one or two that I can think of were really balls that might

have had a band; most were impromptu affairs of an evening with one person

at the harpsichord or pianoforte.  I don't see why a fiddler or recorder

player wouldn't be sufficient for a smaller home circle.  Would that more of

us had drawing rooms large enough even for that!

Yours from the banks of the Charles,

Daniel Pentlarge






---Not in a drawing room and not a Jane Austen ball, *but* my very first experience of contra dancing was in the longish, narrow living room of my friend's grandmother, in New Marlboro, Massachusetts.  I had gone home with her from college to spend  Thanksgiving weekend with her family at their place in the country.  A family friend rode over *on his horse* and pulled out his fiddle.  And, then we danced.  A single fiddle, but ample enough.   I, a city girl (well, suburban bred) was enchanted and forever smitten.  That experience affected much in my later life. . .



Deborah

--Boundary_(ID_KcYntXKj2bPdPBlCbYSJ8g)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:47:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:40:46 -0400
From: Gene Murrow 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What Playford heard
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20030429.224135.-636703.9.gmurrow-AT-juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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ECD-ers in or near New York City on Saturday, May 3 at 8:00 PM are
invited to attend a gala springtime concert by New York's Ensemble for
Early Music featuring English and French music of the Middle Baroque
(1650-1700).  The ensemble of 22 singers and period instruments will
perform music by Henry Purcell and his French contemporaries Marc-Antoine
Charpentier and Henri Dumont-- exactly what was "in the air" during the
glory years of 17th C. English country dance.  Location is St. Vincent
Ferrer Church on Lexington Ave. at 66th Street.  Seating is reserved
(call 212-280-0330 to hold tickets), or available at the door.

ECD-ers not in or near New York City (and not attending the
Fried-for-All) are invited to charter one of the now-unused Concorde
aircraft to get to the concert in a timely fashion.

Gene Murrow
[Full disclosure notification:  I am the General Manager of the
above-mentioned group.  They are very successful, and internationally
renowned, nonetheless.]
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:54:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 20:55:31 -0700
From: Ric Goldman 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Reminder: Join us on May Day morning to dance up the sun (San Francisco Bay Area)
To: Bay Area Community Dance , List - ECD PLAYFORD , Pryanksters , List - Morris Dancing Discussion , 'BACDS-Squires' 
Message-ID: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Yes folks, it's that time again.  All over the Bay Area, local Morris
dancers will join with other Morris teams all around the world, gathering
in darkness before dawn with their ribbons, bells, streamers, baldrics,
instruments, pomp, circumstance, and all around good cheer to wake and
dance up the sun on May Day morning, cajoling it to rise for another year.
You too can be part of the tradition and part of the magic of English
Morris dancing, a legacy thought to be hundreds of years old.  Join us
throughout the land in this wonderful ritual celebration.  Oh, and it's
free!

This really works!  The sun DOES come up, doesn't it?  Well now you know
why!  :-)

There are lots of teams and celebrations all thru the San Francisco Bay
Area and beyond.  For the latest information on schedule, details, maps to
the local May Day morning near you, and what this is all about, please see
the webpage at http://rgoldman.org/morris/mayday.htm or
http://shortcut.to/mayday

Some of these celebrations feature teams associated with the Bay Area
Country Dance Society (BACDS).  For more info on BACDS see their website
at http://www.bacds.org.

Hope to see you there...

Thanx, Ric Goldman
Faultline Morris

P.S. Please pass this on to anyone you know who might be interested.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:51:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:49:14 -0700
From: Sharon Green 
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Flying Romanos' Bay Area Tour
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030430151026.02b56d70-AT-popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20030415.224351.-135443.22.gmurrow-AT-juno.com>

It gives me great pleasure to announce that the Flying Romanos, house band 
at my former North Jersey dance and veterans of festivals and balls 
throughout the Northeast, will be playing in the San Francisco Bay Area 
from 6/27-6/29.

We have scheduled 4 appearances for the Romanos that weekend:
Friday night, 6/27, an opening dance for all, featuring a cavalcade of 
callers.  [7-10pm, St. Clement's Episcopal Church, Berkeley]
Saturday afternoon, 6/28, a style workshop for all, led by Bruce 
Hamilton.  [2-5pm, Grace North Church, Berkeley]
Saturday night, 6/28, an experienced English dance led by Sharon 
Green.  [8-11pm, Grace North Church, Berkeley]
Sunday afternoon, 6/29, a workshop and dance for all led by Bruce 
Hamilton.  [2-5pm, Mid-Peninsula YWCA, Palo Alto]

Here is an opportunity for English dancers to enjoy a weekend of mornings 
touring the Bay Area, afternoons polishing their dancing style under the 
guidance of Bruce Hamilton, and evenings dancing up a storm, all to the 
lively music of this dynamite band.  (I won't even mention the chance of 
dining in the heart of Berkeley's Gourmet Ghetto.)  All this for the 
extremely reasonable price per session of $8 for BACDS & CDSS members/$10 
for non-members.

Out-of-towners, we'd love to have you join us.  Out-of-town callers 
interested in participating in the Friday night cavalcade, please email me 
off-list at sharongreen-AT-post.harvard.edu, call me at 510-654-7974, or see 
me at this weekend's Fried-for-All.  Folks looking for hospitality should 
do the same.

Our thanks go to the BACDS Board for sponsoring this impromptu tour; to the 
local callers, dance managers, and sound and computer wizards for donating 
their services; and, most of all, to the Flying Romanos for coming 
West.  Oh, and for those of you who don't know, the Flying Romanos are:
RO	Robin Russell
MA	Marnen Laibow-Koser
NO	Norma Castle

Much love,
Sharon Green