Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 07:21:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 09:51:36 -0500
From: RUSS BUSH <rbush1 AT attglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Please don't post _any_ binaries to the ECD list
To: ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001301c29a12$51bb1860$a6cd670c AT ATT.COM>
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References: <01KPDRPEY2K8A19H9V AT SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Hi, is there any way you can take me off the list, please?  I enjoy dancing
but I am not that deep into it.  Thanks,  Russ Bush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" <winston AT SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2002 2:27 AM
Subject: Please don't post _any_ binaries to the ECD list


> ECDers --
>
> I've already addressed this in private communication, but I realized I
needed
> to emphasize this to the list at large.
>
> Please -- and I say "please" to be polite, but this is actually something
like
> an order -- don't post binaries to the ECD list.  It's really
counterproductive
> for a variety of reasons:
>
>   1) People with text-based newsreaders (like me) see only gibberish.
>
>   2) People who get the DIGEST see pages and pages of gibberish which they
> still have to page through to see any subsequent messages.
>
> If the graphics are large - and in the most recent case there were over
2MB
> of graphics:
>
>   1) Subscribers on hotmail and yahoo and msn won't receive the messages
> because those services bounce large messages.
>
>   2) Subscribers on many services may well have less than 2MB of disk
space
> available on that service; even if that message gets delivered, if it
blows
> out the quota, subsequent messages will bounce.
>
>   3) These files will take forever to download over slow links, and
they'll
> really deeply annoy anybody who prints out the digest for later reading.
>
>
> If you have a graphic file you _must_ share with the ECD readership, put
it up
> on the web and post a URL.  There are many free webspace sites available,
and
> they don't even require you to buy an FTP client for upload - browsers are
> capable fo doing that.  If you're too intimidated by the technology to
sign up
> for Geocities or Angelfire or FreeWeb, you can send _me_ the graphics and
ask
> me to put them up and send you back the URL at which to find them,
provided
> they aren't obscene and don't violate copyright.
>
> Don't post binaries to the ECD list.
>
> (While you're at it, more people lately have been posting HTML to the ECD
list.
> That isn't anywhere near as bad, but it's still extremely annoying to
> text-based and digest readers, and it says in the message you get when you
> subscribe to the list that you shouldn't do that, so dont do that either.)
>
> Thank you.
>
> -- Alan
> ECD list owner
>
> PS: It's been suggested by more than one recent correspondent that I
implement
> a size limit on postings.  I can't do that with the current (freeware)
version
> of the mailing list software I use; I don't want to pop $500 for the
> professional version.  I may end up having to move the list to LISTSERV,
but I
> don't have time to take care of that at present, and there are some issues
> (like incompatible archives) I need to resolve.  I think you're all
adults;
> please think before posting.
>
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
> Alan Winston --- WINSTON AT SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only
for
> myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056 Paper mail to: SSRL --
SLAC BIN
> 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
>
============================================================================
===
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 07:54:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:53:08 -0500
From: Torbin Zimmerman <torbin AT sympatico.ca>
Subject: Attracting Musicians
To: ECD List - Post <ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DEB81E4.9090504 AT sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECD in Toronto wants to add a couple of paragraphs to its flyer that 
will attract musicians to sit in at its weekly dances.

We're aiming people who have never heard of English country dancing; we 
want to make playing for it sound interesting and give some idea of 
what's expected. If anyone is willing to share some words that might do 
the job, please let us know. Respond off list, if you want.

Many thanks,

Torbin Zimmerman
torbin AT sympatico.ca

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 14:40:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 22:39:52 +0000
From: Olivia Mackay <celtic_elves AT hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Jane Austen
To: ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F188kOS6yDC0AHmKqyP000005eb AT hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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Dear List,
I'm wondering what dances were done during Jane Austen's life. Also, were 
the dances in Pride & Prejudice correct for the Regency period?
Thanks, Olivia







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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:09:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 11:09:30 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic AT aol.com
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1300
To: ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <12f.1cdf498a.2b2225ba AT aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 6/12/02 1:46:04 am, system AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

<< Please don't post _any_ binaries to the ECD list >>

I greatly admire your ability to remain polite while issuing such stern 
admonitions - bravo!

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 08:34:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 11:17:30 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1 AT hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wolfram and Kurath, Sharp and Scandinavia
To: ecd-digest AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F135CjnZS08i7M4BAyx000088aa AT hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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How's that for a snappy subject line? Anyhow, I'm looking for comments on an 
academic folk dance matter.

I recently read a 1960 article by Gertrude Prokosch Kurath, "Panorama of 
Dance Ethnology," Current Anthropology, I (1960):233-54. It has the usual 
stuff which she said about "folk dance," which I completely disagree with 
but won't dive into here. What interests me is that she relied heavily on 
the views of a character whom I regard as an Evil Force: Richard Wolfram, a 
professor at the U of Vienna, who in 1938-45 had been a prominent academic 
Nazi academic folklorist and SS officer, and who, after a few years in the 
(not very harsh) professional wilderness after the war, regained all his 
perks and privileges at the University etc etc.

It's a long story, and has been written up quite a bit in German (and, 
eventually, Austrian) studies of the field. Anyhow, besides being a vile 
human being, Wolfie represented some of the worst of the "primordial folk" 
ideas in folklore studies, volkisch in German, and he was a leading folk 
dance "expert" who was academically prominent all the way till the 1980s, 
including in (oh, what's that name? can't bother to look it up right now) 
the International folk dance / music organization founded ca.1960.

Enough fulminating. To the point. In his published comments at the end of 
Prokosch's article, Wolfie writes that, the Swedish folk dance movement 
"stimulated research in Denmark and the founding in 1900 of the Danish 
Forenigen for Folkdansens Fremme. This organization, in turn, stimulated 
Cecil Sharp, who had already collected dances and songs in England and who 
then founded the EFDS in 1911."

The timing seems a little loose, but the basic idea is this: Scandinavian 
research and organizational developments in the "revival" of folk dance 
influenced Cecil.

Any information? Opinions? Etc.


Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288




_________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 15:04:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 23:06:26 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann AT higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Thomas Hardy Event
To: ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000e01c29f0e$83175c60$c36a883e AT annhigle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000201c294dd$9c180ba0$0200a8c0 AT ntworld.com> <001601c2960e$56935580$1e4a3c3e AT oemcomputer> <3DE4F217.B2D06FA5 AT sbcglobal.net>

I have just returned from a simply wonderful Christmas event organised by
the Thomas Hardy Society together with the singers and musicians of the
Madding Crowd Quire. The parish church at Stinsford (near Hardy's
birthplace, which is close to Dorchester, England) was packed with people in
period costume for an evening of carols, in the West Gallery style, together
with readings from Thomas Hardy's works. This was followed by refreshments
at Kingston Maurward House, where a local version of a mummers play was
performed by members of Frome Valley Morris. The evening finished with
country dancing including the dances Enrico and The Dorset Triumph. It was
an incredibly enjoyable evening, and I felt I should mention it to the ECD
list in case anyone would like to attend the next one which I understand
will be in 2 years' time.
Ann Higley

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:16:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:16:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd AT yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Ease & Elegance 2003
To: ECD List <ECD AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20021210141625.21797.qmail AT web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ease & Elegance, Fried deMetz Herman's annual English
Country dance workshop and party, is scheduled for
Saturday, 18 January 2003.

Full information about the event is here.
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/2225/ease03.htm

In order to facilitate notice in case of cancellation
or postponement, we ask that you apply in advance to
register. Here's the url for an application.
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/2225/easeapp03.htm

You may also contact Leah Barkan at (914) 693-5577;
Fried Herman at (914) 834-9350; or e-mail the
Registrar.


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Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:54:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:54:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier AT ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Christmas Ball, 12/21, Urbana, IL
To: ECD AT SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200212101754.gBAHsLA16214 AT staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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                  The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
                                   Present An

                   E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
                          C H R I S T M A S   B A L L


   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their eighth
annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 21, 2002.  The dance will be held
at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus
of the University of Illinois.  There will be a warm up session from 7:00 to
8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some of
the evening's dances.  The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans and
finery are encouraged.  Bring fruit or a dessert to share.  There is a $7.00
suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball.  We ask that dancers
wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using
excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience
allergic reactions.  All dances will be taught and all lovers of English
country dance and music are welcome.

Dances Lead By: Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m.
Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002
Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL
Suggested Donation: $7.00

   There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a dessert
party following the dance.

   The evening's dances will be selected from the following list:

The Bishop - triple proper
Dargason - longways
The Duke of Kent's Waltz - duple proper
Female Saylor - duple proper
Finale - a quadrille
The Geud Man of Ballangigh - duple proper
A Grand March - longways
Heartsease - 2 couples
Jenny Pluck Pears - round for 3 couples
The Joy Of Dance - 3 couples longways
Lull Me Beyond Thee - 4 couples longways
Oranges and Lemons - 4 couples in a square
Portland Fancy - 4 facing 4
The Queen's Jig - duple proper
Trip To Woodstock - duple proper
Waltz Country Dance - Sicilian circle
Winter Solstice - 5 couples in a square

   For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier AT uiuc.edu) at
217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708.  You can check the Christmas
Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html

   Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the Champaign
Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium.


                    If we don't see you at the Ball,
                    Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier AT uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:09:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 06:54:29 -0800 (PST)
From: MEIER AT SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: On running English ceilidhs in the US
To: ecd AT PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: MEIER AT SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01KPWD8N3A9IAB4RGT AT SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks -

I've been meaning to check in with the ECD list for a while about a grand
experiment BACDS is attempting: English-style ceilidhs.

Here's a bit of what we say about English ceilidh on the BACDS website:

http://www.bacds.org/series/ceilidh/

"To the best of our knowledge, this is the only extant dance series in the
United States dedicated to English ceilidh dances. Our ceilidh dances feature
lively dances led by longtime local dance teachers and ceilidh leaders from
England; the dances themselves often feature uncomplicated yet vigorous
stepping, such as step-hops, skipping, polka steps, and rant steps. The tunes
draw from the English tradition, and are played by bands made up of bay area
English and morris musicians."

So, a couple of questions:  Is anyone else in the US doing regular English
ceilidhs?  If so, we'd like to shake hands and talk. (I understand that there
used to be a ceilidh series in Seattle(?) a while back, but that it's no longer
running; please correct me if I've missed any particulars there. And one
mustn't forget the Vancouver BC band Jiggery Pokery, though I'm not sure
whether they're performing much lately.)

Also, the ceilidh scene fills a particular niche in England that I'm not sure
exists in the same way in the US. (My mind keeps attempting to map the English
ceilidh and Playford-style dancing scenes to the US's contra and ECD dancing
scenes, but I know that's not entirely accurate.)  I'd be interested to hear
the thoughts of list members who've danced at ceilidhs in England.  Feel free
to compare and contrast, e.g. the largely acoustic music in the US vs. the
more electrified folk-rock blends in England.

If nothing else, one difference I notice is that in the US, at least in the SF
Bay Area, both the contra and ECD scenes lean toward dancers with a bit of gray
in the temples, whereas the UK ceilidhs seem to draw a younger crowd, with more
families.  Indeed, that's why we're running our ceilidh series: it's not just
fun, it's ideally a place where adults and kids can dance together, a "gateway
drug" to our other dances, where dancers can encounter "A Year in the Life of a
Penguin" or "St. Valentine's Day Massacre" without fear. :)

Thank you in advance for your jointed and disjointed ramblings,
Vanessa
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:35:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:35:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Terence Gaffney <gaff AT neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD AT playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On running English ceilidhs in the US
To: ECD AT SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: lwlu AT MIT.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.03.10212111128450.1085-100000 AT research.neu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Currently we are running a series based in Harvard Square aimed at
students in the Boston area. The committee running the dance is a mix of
graduate students and younger ECD folk. The dances are a mix of Ceildh,
English traditional dances, and Playford. This is only the second year
we've been running the series, and it's still a work in progress. Our
contact person is Leonard Lu, I'm sure he would like to hear from people
running similar dances. He can be reached at lwlu AT MIT.EDU.

Best,
 Terry



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:01:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:01:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Country Dancers of Westchester <cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Holiday Dance with Scott Higgs & Hold the Mustard
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20021212000122.10819.qmail-AT-
web12201.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

CDW's "Holiday Dance" combines the considerable
talents of emcee Scott Higgs and the band, Hold the
Mustard -- Dan Beerbohm, Barbara Greenberg, Paul
Prestopino, and Kathy Talvitie.

The dance is at 8pm, Saturday, December 14, at The
Church in the Highlands, 35 Bryant Ave., White Plains,
NY.

Admission is $12.00; CDW members pay $10.00. Festive
refreshments served!

Directions to the church and other information about
CDW are available at its website:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2225/

For more information, call Susan Murrow at
914/762-8619 or Leah Barkan at 914/693-5577.



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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:25:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:14:52 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Event
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021211.191449.-347351.11.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sounds like a great evening, Ann.

Let the list know as soon as the next date is set.  We state-siders might
be able to organize a tour or something...

Gene


On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 23:06:26 +0000 Ann Higley
<ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> I have just returned from a simply wonderful Christmas event 
> organised by
> the Thomas Hardy Society together with the singers and musicians of 
> the
> Madding Crowd Quire. The parish church at Stinsford (near Hardy's
> birthplace, which is close to Dorchester, England) was packed with 
> people in
> period costume for an evening of carols, in the West Gallery style, 
> together
> with readings from Thomas Hardy's works. This was followed by 
> refreshments
> at Kingston Maurward House, where a local version of a mummers play 
> was
> performed by members of Frome Valley Morris. The evening finished 
> with
> country dancing including the dances Enrico and The Dorset Triumph. 
> It was
> an incredibly enjoyable evening, and I felt I should mention it to 
> the ECD
> list in case anyone would like to attend the next one which I 
> understand
> will be in 2 years' time.
> Ann Higley
> 
> 
> 


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:45:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 00:44:39 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Event
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003201c2a177$a79f2480$df3a86d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

List members may like to know that...
I recently managed to see and hear the Mellstock Band perform at the
Bridgwater Arts centre. Incredibly good singing and playing on period
instruments in costume and with appropriate Thomas Hardy readings. An
excellent evening. Pity the audience was small.

The Madding Crowd Quire will visit Halsway Manor in February 7-9, 2003. It
is fully booked with about 15 extras down the road in B/B as there are
roughly 77 singers booked.  I have space at home that I may be able to offer
should anyone be in the vicinity of Somerset and would like to witness this
happening for themselves. They come every year. They have a website too. A
google search on "West Gallery" will throw up the details.
Regards Alan Corkett
Business Development at Halsway.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:47:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:35:41 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wednesday Workshops
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E18MO46-0004fA-00.2002-12-12-07-47-27-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The Wednesday Workshops at Cecil Sharp House now have their own web page:

http://www.colinhume.com/ww.htm

Here you can see what dances have been taught, what dances are planned, the
themes of the evenings, the guest leaders, and information about the band.

Colin Hume


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 04:53:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 04:53:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Event--me too!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021212125348.27680.qmail-AT-
web13101.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_0IgFQSjCFo6lGTJmkT++9A)"


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I'd sign up for that tour--I've had the privilege of doing a little workshop with Mellstock, and I think they, and their project, are both marvelous. 
List-readers should be aware of their recordings--*Under the Greenwood Tree* is the one I have (a Saydisc release)--but I know there's at least one more. 
 Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:Sounds like a great evening, Ann.

Let the list know as soon as the next date is set. We state-siders might
be able to organize a tour or something...

Gene


On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 23:06:26 +0000 Ann Higley
writes:
> I have just returned from a simply wonderful Christmas event 
> organised by
> the Thomas Hardy Society together with the singers and musicians of 
> the
> Madding Crowd Quire. The parish church at Stinsford (near Hardy's
> birthplace, which is close to Dorchester, England) was packed with 
> people in
> period costume for an evening of carols, in the West Gallery style, 
> together
> with readings from Thomas Hardy's works. This was followed by 
> refreshments
> at Kingston Maurward House, where a local version of a mummers play 
> was
> performed by members of Frome Valley Morris. The evening finished 
> with
> country dancing including the dances Enrico and The Dorset Triumph. 
> It was
> an incredibly enjoyable evening, and I felt I should mention it to 
> the ECD
> list in case anyone would like to attend the next one which I 
> understand
> will be in 2 years' time.
> Ann Higley
> 
> 
> 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
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destination

Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


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<P>I'd sign up for that tour--I've had the privilege of doing a littl=
e workshop with Mellstock, and I think they, and their project, are b=
oth marvelous.=20
<P>List-readers should be aware of their recordings--*Under the Green=
wood Tree* is the one I have (a Saydisc release)--but I know there's =
at least one more.&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>Gene Murrow &lt;gmurrow-AT-
juno.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT=
: #1010ff 2px solid">Sounds like a great evening, Ann.<BR><BR>Let the=
 list know as soon as the next date is set. We state-siders might<BR>=
be able to organize a tour or something...<BR><BR>Gene<BR><BR><BR>On =
Sun, 08 Dec 2002 23:06:26 +0000 Ann Higley<BR><ANN-AT-
HIGLEY.FREESERVE.C=
O.UK>writes:<BR>&gt; I have just returned from a simply wonderful Chr=
istmas event <BR>&gt; organised by<BR>&gt; the Thomas Hardy Society t=
ogether with the singers and musicians of <BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; Maddin=
g Crowd Quire. The parish church at Stinsford (near Hardy's<BR>&gt; b=
irthplace, which is close to Dorchester, England) was packed with <BR=
>&gt; people in<BR>&gt; period costume for an evening of carols, in t=
he West Gallery style, <BR>&gt; together<BR>&gt; with readings from T=
homas Hardy's works. This was followed by <BR>&gt; refreshments<BR>&g=
t; at Kingston Maurward House, where a local version of a mummers pla=
y <BR>&gt; was<BR>&gt; performed by members of Frome Valle

<a href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.co=
m">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href=3D"http://rd.=
yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a>


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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:03:50 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Happy St. Lucy's (St. Lucia) day tomorrow - children put your shoes out!
To: ECD-AT-
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:39:19 +0000
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Event--me too!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Graham Christian wrote:

> List-readers should be aware of their recordings--*Under the Greenwood
> Tree* is the one I have (a Saydisc release)--but I know there's at
> least one more.

'Tennants of the Earth' is on the WildGoose label, available in the UK
at www.musicfolk.com, and North America from Elderly Instruments.
Paul.

>
>
> ____________________________
>
> Paul Sartin
>
> May Cottage, Wherwell,
> Hampshire, SP11 7JS
>
> Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
> Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798
>

================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:40:29 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Thomas Hardy Event--me too!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002301c2a205$9063f000$1b6b550c-AT-
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----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>

Graham Christian wrote:

> List-readers should be aware of their recordings--*Under the Greenwood
> Tree* is the one I have (a Saydisc release)--but I know there's at
> least one more.

'<<Tennants of the Earth' is on the WildGoose label, available in the UK
at www.musicfolk.com, and North America from Elderly Instruments.
Paul.>>

And "Songs of Thomas Hardy's Wessex", a collection of songs mentioned in
Hardy's novels, is also on Saydisc. Great fun.

Peace,
The Other Paul -- no, that's the Third Paul.

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:04:34 +0000
From: Olivia Mackay <celtic_elves-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Why do People join Dance Display Groups?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I'm interested in obtaining people's reasons for joining a dance display 
group. You may either reply on or off the list.
Thanks, Olivia





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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:19:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:16:54 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Notation Required
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000501c2a2a1$db057ec0$dc403c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
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Please can someone  remind me of the notation for the dance ' A Trip to
Woodstock' which is danced to a carol tune
 Thanks  francis2
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Sivier" <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 5:54 PM
Subject: Christmas Ball, 12/21, Urbana, IL


>                   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
>                                    Present An
>
>                    E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
>                           C H R I S T M A S   B A L L
>
>
>    The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their
eighth
> annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 21, 2002.  The dance will be
held
> at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the
campus
> of the University of Illinois.  There will be a warm up session from 7:00
to
> 8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some
of
> the evening's dances.  The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans
and
> finery are encouraged.  Bring fruit or a dessert to share.  There is a
$7.00
> suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball.  We ask that
dancers
> wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using
> excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience
> allergic reactions.  All dances will be taught and all lovers of English
> country dance and music are welcome.
>
> Dances Lead By: Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
> Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
> Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m.
> Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
> Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002
> Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL
> Suggested Donation: $7.00
>
>    There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a
dessert
> party following the dance.
>
>    The evening's dances will be selected from the following list:
>
> The Bishop - triple proper
> Dargason - longways
> The Duke of Kent's Waltz - duple proper
> Female Saylor - duple proper
> Finale - a quadrille
> The Geud Man of Ballangigh - duple proper
> A Grand March - longways
> Heartsease - 2 couples
> Jenny Pluck Pears - round for 3 couples
> The Joy Of Dance - 3 couples longways
> Lull Me Beyond Thee - 4 couples longways
> Oranges and Lemons - 4 couples in a square
> Portland Fancy - 4 facing 4
> The Queen's Jig - duple proper
> Trip To Woodstock - duple proper
> Waltz Country Dance - Sicilian circle
> Winter Solstice - 5 couples in a square
>
>    For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu) at
> 217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708.  You can check the Christmas
> Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html
>
>    Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the
Champaign
> Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium.
>
>
>                     If we don't see you at the Ball,
>                     Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all!
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
> |  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
> |  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
> |  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
> |  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
> |  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
> |  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
> |  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 04:44:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:44:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Notation Required
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200212131244.MAA22116-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Friday, December 13, 2002 at 12:16:54 PM, ECD-AT-
ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:

> Please can someone  remind me of the notation for the dance ' A Trip to
> Woodstock' which is danced to a carol tune
>  Thanks  francis2

A Google search finds

TRIP TO WOODSTOCK - longways duple minor by Don Bell, August 2000. 
Tune: 'Ding Dong Merrily' (Branle l'officiel' from Thoinot Arbeau, Orchesographie, 1589)

The long 'trip' by the 1st couple in part B is reminiscent of my first roundabout car trip to call a dance in Woodstock,NY. The high point of the evening was a collaboration between the 4 dancers (all men), 9 band members and myself composing this dance. Thanks also go to Rensselaer English Country Dancers, participants in Gene Murrow's Dance Choreography Workshop at Pinewoods (Aug 2000) and Beverly Francis for small improvements and helpful comments. In the B part the first couple may enjoy imagining they're taking a winding sleigh ride down a long hill. 

A1: PARTNERS SET RIGHT & LEFT, TURN SINGLE RIGHT (back to place) 

A2: CORNERS SET RIGHT & LEFT(towards each other), FALL BACK (to place) 

B1: 1s CROSS BY THE RIGHT SHOULDER DOWN THE OUTSIDE TO 2nd Place, 2s MOVE UP 
1s 1/2 FIGURE 8 THRU NEXT 2s BELOW (end progressed & proper) 

B2: 2s GATE ORIGINAL 1s UP THE CENTER & DOWN THE OUTSIDE (to place) 
2s GATE NEW 1s DOWN THE MIDDLE & UP THE OUTSIDE (to place) 

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:51:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:50:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Why do People join Dance Display Groups?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200212131550.gBDFonR08469-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Olivia Mackay writes:
> 
> I'm interested in obtaining people's reasons for joining a dance display 
> group. You may either reply on or off the list.
> Thanks, Olivia

   There are probably as many different reasons as there are people involved.
Personally when our group does performances, which isn't very often since
we really aren't organized for that sort of thing, one of my primary goals
is to expose new people to ECD and get them interested in attending one of
our dances.  To this end we usually include some audience participation
in our performances/demos.  We will perform a few dances and then get
audience members up to join us for some easy dances.

   However in addition to that there is something to be said for working
with a group of dancers and perfecting (or at least getting pretty good)
some dances.  That can be enjoyable by itself.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:55:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:55:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Notation Required
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200212131555.gBDFtGb10553-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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francis2 writes:
> 
> Please can someone  remind me of the notation for the dance ' A Trip to
> Woodstock' which is danced to a carol tune
>  Thanks  francis2

   It was in CDSS News a little over a year ago.  You can find the figures
listed on our website along with the other Christmas Ball dances.  The
URL is "http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xb_ball_dances.html#ttw".  The tune
is "Ding Dong Merrily".  You can also find it on Don Bell's web page at
"http://www.rpi.edu/~belld2/triptowoodstock.htm".

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:46:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:45:37 -0600
From: quinbus <mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Notation Required
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201c2a2cf$ae428440$b118bcd0-AT-
dallas.sil.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200212131244.MAA22116-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>

On Friday, December 13, 2002 at 12:16:54 PM, Michael Barraclough suggested:

> TRIP TO WOODSTOCK - longways duple minor by Don Bell, August 2000.
> Tune: 'Ding Dong Merrily' (Branle l'officiel' from Thoinot Arbeau,
Orchesographie, 1589)

What other dances can the group suggest that are built on favorite Christmas
tunes?   There's the Female Saylor of course.  Any others?

McDjr


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:46:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:46:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021213184610.57491.qmail-AT-
web13102.mail.yahoo.com>
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"The Female Saylor" is not built on a Christmas carol--the situation is quite the reverse.
The Female Saylor originated as a Sailors' March in Marin Marais' opera *Alcyone*--I believe from 1705, but it could have been a little earlier; I don't have Hesperion XX's recording in front of me. What the sailors were doing onstage while the tune was heard we do not know; we do know that Feuillet used the tune for his country dance "La Matelotte" in 1706. In John Essex's translation of Feuillet's treatise, he calls the dance "The Female Saylor." 
There is no connection to Christmastide until the late 19th century, when poet and designer William Morris wrote "Masters in this hall" to the tune (a la Robert Burns, fitting new words to old tunes). How and where he got hold of it I do not know, but I am pretty certain that it was believed to be a folk melody by then--indeed, even as recently as the notes to Bare Necessities' new recording series, the connection to Marais is not acknowledged.  In fact, the notes to the Hesperion XX album with an instrumental suite from *Alcyone* I cited above broadly hint that the tune is so catchy that perhaps Marais didn't write it--an umbragifying suggestion if ever I heard one. 
So, while it's inevitable that we may be tempted to program this dance in this season, let's do our best *not* to say, Here's a dance to a Christmas carol, but rather, We know this tune as a Christmas carol, but in fact...
Graham "Truth In Advertising" Christian           
 quinbus <mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net> wrote:On Friday, December 13, 2002 at 12:16:54 PM, Michael Barraclough suggested:

> TRIP TO WOODSTOCK - longways duple minor by Don Bell, August 2000.
> Tune: 'Ding Dong Merrily' (Branle l'officiel' from Thoinot Arbeau,
Orchesographie, 1589)

What other dances can the group suggest that are built on favorite Christmas
tunes? There's the Female Saylor of course. Any others?

McDjr



Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


---------------------------------
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<P>"The Female Saylor" is not built on a Christmas carol--the situation is quite the reverse.
<P>The Female Saylor originated as a Sailors' March in Marin Marais' opera *Alcyone*--I believe from 1705, but&nbsp;it could have been a little earlier; I don't have Hesperion XX's recording in front of me.&nbsp;What the sailors were doing onstage while the tune was heard we do not know; we do know that Feuillet used the tune for his country dance "La Matelotte" in 1706. In John Essex's translation of Feuillet's treatise, he calls the dance "The Female Saylor." 
<P>There is no connection to Christmastide until the late&nbsp;19th century, when poet and designer William Morris wrote "Masters in this hall" to the tune (a la Robert Burns, fitting new words to old tunes). How and where he got hold of it I do not know, but I am pretty&nbsp;certain that it was believed to be a folk melody by then--indeed, even as recently as the notes to Bare Necessities' new recording series, the connection to Marais is not acknowledged.&nbsp; In fact, the notes to the Hesperion XX album with&nbsp;an instrumental&nbsp;suite from *Alcyone* I cited above broadly hint that the tune is so&nbsp;catchy that perhaps Marais didn't write it--an umbragifying suggestion if ever I heard one.&nbsp;
<P>So, while it's inevitable that we may be tempted to program this dance in this season, let's&nbsp;do our best *not* to say, Here's a dance to a Christmas carol, but rather, We know this tune as a Christmas carol, but&nbsp;in fact...
<P>Graham "Truth&nbsp;In Advertising" Christian&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>quinbus &lt;mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">On Friday, December 13, 2002 at 12:16:54 PM, Michael Barraclough suggested:<BR><BR>&gt; TRIP TO WOODSTOCK - longways duple minor by Don Bell, August 2000.<BR>&gt; Tune: 'Ding Dong Merrily' (Branle l'officiel' from Thoinot Arbeau,<BR>Orchesographie, 1589)<BR><BR>What other dances can the group suggest that are built on favorite Christmas<BR>tunes? There's the Female Saylor of course. Any others?<BR><BR>McDjr<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Graham Christian<br>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a>

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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:36:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:37:14 -0600
From: quinbus <mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
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Mr. Christian quickly mutinied:

>"The Female Saylor" is not built on a Christmas carol--the situation is
quite the reverse.

Fletcher, -er Graham, you are exactly and historically Bountiful (as usual).
Sloppy of me (also, as usual).  I dance corrected.... <grin>

But, I trust, that my question can still stand, perhaps reworded to
encourage the broadest possible return:

What other dances can the group suggest that are [in any way associated
with] favorite Christmas
tunes?

Adrift,

McDjr


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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:26:43 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ...other Christmasy repertoire
To: ECD-AT-
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My featured dance on 12/27 will be Greensleeves and Yellow Lace - again a
tune that has been adopted by the Christmas tradition.

At my XMas night contra I always do Heidi Laufman's "Simple gifts" which is
not a Christmas thing but it has the right feel and an "englishy" style.
For those who know the Shaker Hymn (or Lord o t Dance) the figures as I do
them based on my imperfect recollections from early years dancing are:
Duple Proper:
Amusic:  All do C# siding twice with partners; 1s go down the center, turn
as a couple, return improper and assisted cast with 2s
Bmusic: Ladies chain over and back; 1s turn single moving right to face up
and down the center (as in Petronella) and step balance (step right foot,
swing left and vice versa) and 1s turn again to the proper side and step
balance.

Of course nothing captures the spirit of Xmas tackiness so much as my final
waltz done to the light of a human sized plastic Santa Claus I found in the
trash a few years ago.
Although I have always done a dance on Xmas night for as long as I can
remember, a large part of the reason I do it is for the great number of
people who do not celebrate Christmas - they make up a third or more of the
participants. By doing some Xmas-related and reflective material, blending
it with some irreverant antics, and a main course of good solid dances that
are fun  at any season I seem to be able to cater to all without offending
anyone that I know of.
Cammy


                                                                                                                                   
                      quinbus                                                                                                      
                      <mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net>               To:       ECD-AT-
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                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                         
                      owner-ecd-AT-
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                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   
                      13-Dec-2002 02:37 PM                                                                                         
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




Mr. Christian quickly mutinied:

>"The Female Saylor" is not built on a Christmas carol--the situation is
quite the reverse.

Fletcher, -er Graham, you are exactly and historically Bountiful (as
usual).
Sloppy of me (also, as usual).  I dance corrected.... <grin>

But, I trust, that my question can still stand, perhaps reworded to
encourage the broadest possible return:

What other dances can the group suggest that are [in any way associated
with] favorite Christmas
tunes?

Adrift,

McDjr






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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 12:48:46 PST
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:45:20 -0500
From: Ellen Tepper <etepper-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Another "Carol" to dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Another, though rarely sung "carol" in the ECD rep would be "Drive the
Cold Winter Away" sometimes indexed as "All hail to the days"
The words, published by Durfey in 1702 (or so) speak of a benevolent
attitude during the winter season.
I found some of them in Chapell's Popular Muisc of the Olden Time (I
think, I cannot find the book to verify the title)
Important to note that "carols" were originally circle dances....

"Cross out of your books 
all malevolent looks
Both Beauty and Youth's decay.
And boldly consort 
with mirth and with sport
To drive the cold winter away.

Ellen Tepper, harpist in Philadelphia
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:53:26 -0500
From: Maryn McKenna <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Another "Carol" to dance
To: ECD-AT-
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is there not a dance (Easter Thursday?) that is danced to In the Bleak
Midwinter?

maryn mckenna
in bleakly wet Atlanta


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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 13:33:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com>
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Another "Carol" to dance
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No, "In the Bleak Midwinter" is danced to "In the Bleak Midwinter." ITBM is by our own Robin Hayden, published in CDSS News.
"Easter Thursday" is danced to "Easter Thursday" (tho', to me, the figures are a Procrustean fit to that tune).
Wendy Crouch Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One Morning" (BUT: AABB), which is perhaps what you're remembering.   
 Maryn McKenna <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com> wrote:is there not a dance (Easter Thursday?) that is danced to In the Bleak
Midwinter?

maryn mckenna
in bleakly wet Atlanta



Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


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<P>No, "In the Bleak Midwinter" is danced to "In the Bleak Midwinter." ITBM is by our own Robin Hayden, published in CDSS News.
<P>"Easter Thursday" is danced to "Easter Thursday" (tho',&nbsp;to me, the figures are a Procrustean fit to that tune).
<P>Wendy Crouch Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One Morning" (BUT: AABB), which is perhaps what you're&nbsp;remembering.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>Maryn McKenna &lt;mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">is there not a dance (Easter Thursday?) that is danced to In the Bleak<BR>Midwinter?<BR><BR>maryn mckenna<BR>in bleakly wet Atlanta<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Graham Christian<br>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com">Sign up now</a>

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:15:14 -0500
From: eba-AT-
umich.edu
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Another "Carol" to dance
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--On Friday, December 13, 2002 1:33 PM -0800 Graham Christian 
<bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

> Wendy Crouch Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One Morning"
> (BUT: AABB), which is perhaps what you're remembering.

by some, but others dance it to the David Dean tune (I believe, by the same 
title) which was written for it and which is published along with the dance 
in Wendy's book, "Further Flights of Fancy."

Eric Arnold, kibitzer.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:19:43 PST
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:19:06 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Graham Christian wrote "The Female Saylor" is not built on a Christmas
carol--the situation is quite the reverse.  The Female Saylor originated
as a Sailors' March in Marin Marais' opera *Alcyone*--I believe from
1705, but it could have been a little earlier ...

I am going out on a limb here as I cannot find the appropriate note.  I
am reasonably confident, however, that the tune was in fact from much
earlier.  I recollect hearing a recording of it on the radio once where
it was coming from an album of 16th? century French monastic music.  A
search on Masters in this Hall on Google brings several references to it
as “The actual provenance of the melody is unknown, but it is believed
to be 16th century French.”

It is quite conceivable, therefore, that Marais stole an existing
(popular?) tune and used it in his opera.  There are plenty of
precedents for this sort of action at that time.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:21:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:18:11 +1100
From: John Garden <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 64 Christmas Carol dances
To: "ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Dear friends, 
There is currently a lot of discussion on this list about possible dances to
go to Christmas Carols.  Surprisingly no-one has mentioned The Christmas
Carol Dance Book. The book contains 64  social dances, most in the English
country dance style, to go with 63 carols. All the dances work exceedingly
well, are lots of fun and in their style and figures echo the carols' period
and place of origin and lyrical story line.  There are dances in every
conceivable formation and for every level of competency (indeed some have
both simple versions and versions for connoisseurs). We've enjoyed them at
lots of  public dances here in Canberra (as well as at workshops interstate)
and have made them a feature of at least 4 balls (there's probably 4 balls
worth in the collection so its always a hard choice of which ones to do).
The beautifully laid-out 76 page book contains instructions to all the
dances, chorded musical notation, carol lyrics, lots of historical notes and
wonderful illustrations.  It came off the press just a couple of weeks ago
and is going to be officially launched tomorrow night at a big Christmas
Carol Ball in Canberra's historic Albert Hall (last year's ball was a
glorious success with people dressing up and singing and dancing to carols
all night). In advance of its launch we have already  sold 150 copies to
people around the world, but judging from the present web discussion, it may
be that we have not succeeded in letting the hard-core English country dance
enthusiasts, the people for whom it is primarily designed, know of its
existence.  I hope many of you might take the opportunity to find out more
about this work by visiting our CDs&Book page on our site
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au  and as post takes 7-8 days to the U.K.,
we might still be able to fill any quickly-lodged orders (via webpage) by
Christmas.  I think you'll find this work will more than meet the needs of
your list contributors.
All the best! John Garden (dance teacher, writer, musician and leader of
country dance band Earthly Delights)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:23:29 PST
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:20:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Another "Carol" to dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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It might be a bit of a stretch (not a carol), but if one is trying to
assemble a Christmas-themed event one could use "Angels Unawares" by
our own Graham Christian.

Barbara
--- Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> No, "In the Bleak Midwinter" is danced to "In the Bleak Midwinter."
> ITBM is by our own Robin Hayden, published in CDSS News.
> "Easter Thursday" is danced to "Easter Thursday" (tho', to me, the
> figures are a Procrustean fit to that tune).
> Wendy Crouch Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One
> Morning" (BUT: AABB), which is perhaps what you're remembering.   

>  Maryn McKenna <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com> wrote:is there not a dance
> (Easter Thursday?) that is danced to In the Bleak
> Midwinter?
> 
> maryn mckenna
> in bleakly wet Atlanta
> 
> 
> 
> Graham Christian
> "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."
> 
> 


=====
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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:25:59 PST
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:26:29 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Why do People join Dance Display Groups?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 12:04 PM 12/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm interested in obtaining people's reasons for joining a dance display 
>group. You may either reply on or off the list.
>Thanks, Olivia

For me the main reason is to dance with other very good dancers and feel 
the loving connections that are created when you and the rest of the group 
are moving exactly together.  Unison movement is great human 
glue.  Performing groups tend to become like families.

Those connections don't happen on the recreational dance floor to anywhere 
near the degree that they occur in performing groups, where everyone learns 
to move with the same style and take the same size steps, to make eye 
contact, to "perform" by flirting and by putting out about 40 times more 
energy than it actually takes to do the movements.

  I also enjoyed working to perfection at style and ensemble and the 
opportunity of becomming technically excellent.  You do a recreational 
dance once or twice with a teacher, struggling to imitate the style and 
remember all the details, but with the model gone it gradually morphs into 
something else, the style diminished, the rhythms inaccurate, the footwork 
sloppy.  You join a performing group, and there will be an outside eye-- 
director or dance master -- making sure excellence in technique and style 
improves over time.

I performed for 20 years in Balkan dance companies in Boston, Chicago and 
Seattle and found recreational dancing disappointing in comparison.  Its no 
fun dancing in belt hold next to someone who doesn't feel 7/8 meter and is 
bobbing up and down at a different time than you are.  And recreational 
dancing is meant to be inclusive of beginners and mediocre dancers, so the 
intrictate advanced dances are rarely done and aren't very satisfying when 
they are.

A big factor for me was also the absense of live music in the recreational 
International and Balkan scene,-- only the performing groups had live 
bands.  I continue to be amazed and thrilled at the quality of music I 
dance to in recreational English dancing.

Another reason people join performing groups is that they get a thrill out 
of performing itself-- they love putting out all that energy to make the 
audience happy, seeing their smiles and hearing their applause.   And its 
nice to show the public what folk dancing is all about-- a performance is 
educational and often lures people into the dance scene.  "You looked like 
you were having so much fun I just had to try it."

But I doubt if most people are in it to perform or to show off.  Its a huge 
time investment in rehearsal before performance happens.  You have to love 
the process to make it worth it.    NOnesuch rehearses 13 weeks, 2 hours a 
week for a half-hour Folklife performance.  Radost rehearsed 400 hours one 
year for 4 2-hour professional level performances.  Sevarzapad grew out of 
a High School Advanced Folk Dance class that met 3 hours a week for a year, 
and performed for 1/2 hour at Folklife and 4 times for an hour each at the 
school.

To perform, you really should love the process of rehearsing, love the 
other company members,  and respect the director,  because that is most of 
what its about.  You also have to tolerate a lot of sewing, repairing, 
washing and ironing of costumes, and in some cases a full day or boredom at 
the theater standing in hot costumes while lights are focused on you.  Yes 
its a thrill going out on stage, made up, in costume, hair ethnically 
correct, and making dance magic for enthusiastic onlookers who will applaud 
wildly and tell you how splendid you were.   But its a long time between 
shows, with a lot of slogging through the same material to tedious 
perfection in order to get there.

  I have to confess that some of us are also into performing for the 
costumes.  We just never outgrew dressing up in gorgeous clothes and role 
playing! In Balkanske Igre and Radost I got to put on wearable art-- 
hand-embroidered hand-woven Macedonian costumes, Montenegrin headresses 
that made me feel like an icon, swirly floral Hungarian skirts with a 
zillion petticoats.  I loved it.  I loved the way the clothes made me feel, 
the way they belonged so completely to the dance.  You really can't 
understand Hungarian women's dances in jeans, or Japanese dances in a full 
skirt.  The clothes put you in the role, make you move in the correct 
style.  And they are gorgeous and it feels good to dance in them.  The 
clothes transport you to a different time and place, make you stand 
straighter, dance more elegantly. The clothes move with you, making a turn 
single a statement that shows off the silken swirl of your gown.








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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 17:52:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.50.0212131752360.3789-100000-AT-
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 I know there is one set to "In the Bleak Midwinter"... anyone?


Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y
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Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 14:58:31 PST
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:55:43 +0000
From: Olivia Mackay <celtic_elves-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 64 Christmas Carol dances
To: ECD-AT-
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We received our copy of this lovely book last week - such an impressive 
production - and already our English Country Dance group has been enjoying 
the dances composed by John Garden, including 'In the Bleak Midwinter', that 
you were talking about. The ones we've tried so far have been very 
satisfying.  I certainly recommend this book for readers of this list, and 
as a musician I've also enjoyed being able to play all the tunes. I just 
wish that we could get John Garden and his band Earthly Delights to tour 
over here! Does anyone want to organise something?
Merry Christmas, Olivia M.
P.S. The book is very affordable - the Australian dollar is very low 
compared to our currency, so we only pay about half the advertised price.

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:23:46 -0500
From: Alixe Dancer <alixed-AT-
options.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Why do People join Dance Display Groups?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I am finding all the answers so interesting. And all of them reflect my 
own thoughts in some way.

1. To increase exposure in order to invite/entice new members. We, too, 
do audience participation.

2. To be able to fuss with dances, do ‘hard’ dances, and feel the group 
energy as we create ensemble.

3. As a community service. To add movement, costume, color and 
excitement to performance events. We are in rural Douglas County, 
Oregon. We dance at our local Arts Festival, Heritage Festival, Spring 
Arts Fair, Celtic Games, Scottish Society events, County Fair, and a 
lot of other community venues and events.

4. We do not dance to make money, however, the performance group often 
earns money and it all goes into the same pot with the social group 
kitty. Members of the performance group are volunteers from the social 
group. 

5. For me, an important part of performing is to give the audience a 
visceral experience. For instance, the satisfaction of seeing a 
longways of partners all dancing a right hand turn in unison. Or that 
moment in Picking Of Sticks when we come out of the movement of 
skipping-and-slipping into the stillness of the arming figure. Or, in a 
Scottish dance – the strength of the slipping circle. For me the image 
of a slipping circle is of a Greek column.  The circle's energy 
starting from the ground and rising up and up and up.
 See what I mean? It is for the audience, for their internal 
experience. And then, of course, we dance for fun, and hope the 
audience feels that, too. You know: "You all look like you are having 
such fun up there."  And, of course, we are.

> I'm interested in obtaining people's reasons for joining a dance 
display 
> group. You may either reply on or off the list.
> Thanks, Olivia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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> 

-- 
Alixe Dancer
alixed-AT-
options.org
Mon-Fri cell # 541 643-4193

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playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 01:30:50 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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<<There is no connection to Christmastide until the late 19th century, when
poet and designer William Morris wrote "Masters in this hall" to the tune (a
la Robert Burns, fitting new words to old tunes). How and where he got hold
of it I do not know, but I am pretty certain that it was believed to be a
folk melody by then>>

Perhaps it had, in fact, *become* a folk melody by then. A surprising number
of folk songs and tunes seem to have their origins on the stage, "The Coast
of Barbary" probably being the best-known example. I wouldn't be surprised
if "Old Man River" enters folk tradition sometime in the next century.

Personally, I think the piece should have stayed a dance, since I find the
"Masters in this Hall" lyrics require a crowbar to fit them with the tune.
Maybe it's just me. Oh well, Morris made nice chairs.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 06:44:12 PST
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:42:10 +0000
From: Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-wmnt.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Swiss dance?
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
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I've had a phone call from a lady who wants a ceilidh/barn dance.

In Switzerland.

My band cannot do it, unfortunately.

Denise Vetsch teaches English as a foreign language at a school in the
German-speaking part of Switzerland, near the Austria/Lichtenstein border.
She has decided it would be fun to hold an English type ceilidh, folk dance
or barn dance.

Denise has no fixed date yet, but wants it to me in May sometime. She also
has no fixed budget, but is not likely to want to pay the vast sums it would
take to ship a band and caller over specially.  Thus I think it would suit
someone who was already in the area on holiday or gigging. Denise even
suggested a caller with recorded music might be acceptable, but would prefer
a small band.  Anyone fancy a quit flit over with minimal equipment? How
cheaply could it be done?

Denise can be contacted on

phone: 0041 81 771 5473
email: playhous-AT-active.ch   (note the spelling - no 'e')

Possibly one of our European list members may be able to help? Anthony
Heywood, or Wim Lammers - are you out there somewhere?  Does anyone know
anyone in that part of the world who you could put in touch with Denise?

Ron Hawkins


================================================================================
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:11:14 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: meaning of "turn"
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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The Strathspey List posed the question of what does the term "turn" mean, in
original instructions, when unmodified by any other instruction.

Using _The Playford Ball_ (Keller and Shimer) as a way of comparing original
instructions to reconstructions, I see that Sharp, Pat Shaw, and others
interpret "turn" as being done with two hands.  The question is: how did
they know that?  Was this an arbitrary choice, or are there sources that
say, or at least strongly imply, that a "turn" is a two-handed figure?

Pat

================================================================================
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:33:37 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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...."Masters in this Hall" lyrics require a crowbar to fit them with the
tune.
Maybe it's just me. Oh well, Morris made nice chairs.

Peace,
Paul

And wrote my favorite fantasy -
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:35:34 PST
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:35:26 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: meaning of "turn"
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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It is my belief that "turn" means only that. How to turn is up to
tradition, the dancing master, and the context.
Ckaynor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:32:33 PST
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:31:56 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1304
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In a message dated 14/12/02 3:01:11 pm, Graham Christian writes:

<< Wendy Crouch Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One Morning" 
(BUT: AABB), which is perhaps what you're remembering. >>

Correction - Wendy Knight's "Winter Solstice" is danced to "Early One 
Morning" in the US: in the UK, its country of origin, it is danced to "Winter 
Solstice" by David Dean, a JIG written specially for the dance - and recorded 
by The Assembly Players on "Old World - New Dances"! (see web site)

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
<A HREF="http://">www.nicolasbroadbridge.com</A>
================================================================================
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:17:49 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ...that's not the ceiling, it's the floor!
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Sat, 14 Dec 2002, Campbell Kaynor wrote:

>
> ...."Masters in this Hall" lyrics require a crowbar to fit them with the
> tune.
> Maybe it's just me. Oh well, Morris made nice chairs.

 Well, it definitely is not me. Indeed, I first heard it being sung on the
radio.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:37:19 PST
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 23:37:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: meaning of "turn"
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021215073716.95557.qmail-AT-web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Strathspey List posed the question of what does the term "turn"
> mean, in original instructions, when unmodified by any other
> instruction.
> 
> Using _The Playford Ball_ (Keller and Shimer) as a way of comparing
> original instructions to reconstructions, I see that Sharp, Pat
> Shaw, and others interpret "turn" as being done with two hands. 
> The question is: how did they know that?  Was this an arbitrary
> choice, or are there sources that say, or at least strongly imply,
> that a "turn" is a two-handed figure?

To me, "turn" doesn't at all imply that it be with two hands. The
person teaching should specify right, left or two handed turns when
teaching. The question is, how do you know as a teacher which it
should be? Experience? "Tradition"? Somebody else's written
instructions? Sometimes the previous or following figure might give a
hint by which hand is, or needs to be, free.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:01:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:55:36 -0500
From: franch-AT-juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021215.165536.-370415.4.franch-AT-juno.com>
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Some time ago, Bruce Hamilton asked the list how we felt about receiving
unasked help (prompting from other dancers) during a dance.  I gained a
lot from his discussion of this issue last summer at Buffalo Gap,
although I'm still not comfortable with a blanket prohibition on
freelance prompting.  Since last summer, however, I've become aware that
I have two kinds of reactions to unasked for help.  I don't know if the
following reinforces Bruce's prohibition or adds nuance to the
discussion, but I offer it for your comment. 

1.  Sometimes I'm grateful for help.  For example, I've been waiting out
and daydreaming and suddenly I'm in and I momentarily don't have a clue
what to do.  Or, I'm doing a complex dance that I've never done before
and need a little help to get over a bout of befuddlement.  Someone will
give me a reminder, and for this relief, much thanks.

2.  But I find that my blood pressure really rises when the help
continues.  The helper assumes that because I needed help at Point A, I
will also need it for Points B, C, . . . and thus offers it.  I'm afraid
that I have such a strong reaction to this that, a week ago at the
practice session for the Germantown Ball, I was rude to a person who
helped me when I really needed help, and then proffered directions in the
next figure which, unbeknownst to him and contrary to the evidence of the
previous figure, I knew.

The above individual was not one of those people who works his or her way
up and down the line automatically telling all encountered what to do. 
Such a person is an unalloyed nuisance.  Indeed, the kind individual who
set me off had reason to think that I needed help--which in fact, I did
at one point.  Maybe the corollary to Bruce's rule that I'm offering here
is to help when the dance floor behavior shows it's really necessary, but
then not to assume that further help is necessary without evidence that
it's needed.  This is advice for me as well as for thee, of course.

Comments?

Mike Franch
Baltimore Md. USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:42:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 17:41:27 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 16:55:36 -0500 franch-AT-juno.com writes:
> Some time ago, Bruce Hamilton asked the list how we felt about 
> receiving
> unasked help (prompting from other dancers) during a dance.  I 
> gained a
> lot from his discussion of this issue last summer at Buffalo Gap,
> although I'm still not comfortable with a blanket prohibition on
> freelance prompting.  

Where does such a prohibition exist?

Since last summer, however, I've become aware 
> that
> I have two kinds of reactions to unasked for help.
> 
> 1.  Sometimes I'm grateful for help.  For example, I've been waiting 
> out
> and daydreaming and suddenly I'm in and I momentarily don't have a 
> clue
> what to do.  Or, I'm doing a complex dance that I've never done 
> before
> and need a little help to get over a bout of befuddlement.  Someone 
> will
> give me a reminder, and for this relief, much thanks.
> 
> 2.  But I find that my blood pressure really rises when the help
> continues.  The helper assumes that because I needed help at Point 
> A, I
> will also need it for Points B, C, . . . and thus offers it. 

I think it all boils down to being sensitive to the other dancers in your
line/set/circle/whatever. If someone really does look like they're not
sure what direction to go, what figure comes next, etc. it certainly
doesn't seem to me to be a problem for someone who does know to give them
a brief reminder (perhaps point in the right direction, give a one or
two-word prompt, et al), but once they're past that point it seems to me
presumptuous and rude to keep it up unless they're obviously lost and
causing the set to fall apart.

> The above individual was not one of those people who works his or 
> her way
> up and down the line automatically telling all encountered what to 
> do. 
> Such a person is an unalloyed nuisance.  

I've dealt with individuals who do this and indeed find them nuisances,
because in many cases their "help" isn't welcome or even necessary, and
it's insulting to the other dancers. In some cases where the individual
was especially presistent, I thought they might benefit greatly from
spending some time in a brank (a sort of metal hood that was used to
punish gossips in colonial America--it basically prevented them from
talking). (BTW, having been at many of the dances Mike's attended, I'd
like to offer my apologies to him if I've ever been guilty of that.)


Dawn Culbertson
Baltimore Md. USA



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Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:32:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:32:39 -0800
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DFD1116.A640C4A7-AT-opendoor.com>
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Pointing. I ask dancers in our group to avoid pointing. More often than not
the person they are pointing for comes to them (seeing an outstretched hand)
rather than going in the direction being pointed at. And the pointer runs
the risk of having their arm in someone else's way and/or being late for
what they are supposed to be doing. And then when several dancers all point
at once...ack.

And when two or three people are giving one or two word prompts
simultaneously it is amazing how unhelpful it can be.

We have dancers in our group who, even though they may 'look' like they
don't know what to do next (and in fact may not know), don't find a lot of
help from other dancers on the floor to be helpful. In fact it often adds to
their frustration level. When they have a partner who is giving subtle and
silent cues (a big smile, a slight tilt of the head, standing still, lifting
hands for a turn a fraction before it's necessary...), they are much calmer
and able to pick up on what to to do.

Brooke Friendly
Ashland OR


"Dawn C. Culbertson" wrote:

> I think it all boils down to being sensitive to the other dancers in your
> line/set/circle/whatever. If someone really does look like they're not
> sure what direction to go, what figure comes next, etc. it certainly
> doesn't seem to me to be a problem for someone who does know to give them
> a brief reminder (perhaps point in the right direction, give a one or
> two-word prompt, et al), but once they're past that point it seems to me
> presumptuous and rude to keep it up unless they're obviously lost and
> causing the set to fall apart.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 15:50:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 18:49:52 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 12/15/02 5:02:30 PM, franch-AT-juno.com writes:

<< But I find that my blood pressure really rises when the help
continues.  The helper assumes that because I needed help at Point A, I
will also need it for Points B, C, . . . and thus offers it.  >>

Yes, yes! Very annoying & humiliating. One of my particular peeves is the 
partner who, when one instinctively begins to move on  the upbeat -- how can 
one not? -- attempts to physically restrain one, whispering loudly, "not 
YET!" I'm always at a loss as to how to respond, because there's no WAY I'm 
not going to continue doing this (it's sort of beyond my conscious control.) 
Of course my friends & favorite partners begin moving before the downbeat as 
well so there's never a problem.

Judy Grunberg
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:17:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:17:43 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000601c2a4b1$b28b5e80$b5c4c943-AT-g9tfz>
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Mike wrote:

"....Maybe the corollary to Bruce's rule that I'm offering here is to help
when the dance floor behavior shows it's really necessary, but then not to
assume that further help is necessary without evidence that
it's needed......Comments?"

Agreed.  I assume that the dancer is intelligent enough to have learned from
the cue, and that subsequence cueing is not necessary unless requested or
*obviously* needed.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:17:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:17:44 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: when to move.  Was: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Judy wrote:
".... when one instinctively begins to move on  the upbeat -- how can one
not?"

I'm afraid I have to disagree that moving on the upbeat is "instinctive";
I'd say it is a matter of habit, developed because almost everyone else is
doing it.  How can one not?  Train oneself merely to rise off one's heels on
the upbeat, in anticipation of the next phrase.

Pat

================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 23:03:57 -0500
From: Diane Schmit <dschmit-AT-ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 05:41 PM 12/15/2002, Dawn wrote:

>If someone really does look like they're not
>sure what direction to go, what figure comes next, etc. it certainly
>doesn't seem to me to be a problem for someone who does know to give them
>a brief reminder


Often, the "someone who does know" doesn't really....

Diane
Maryland



================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 05:53:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: meaning of "turn"
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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My glances at Feuillet-notation English country dances (in Feuillet, Essex, Jayme &c.) suggests that often as not, the default "turn" where indicated (Essex usually leaves it out) is in fact a turn by the right hand--even where I might have expected to find a turn by two hands. You can indicate a turn in Feuillet--a little claw-like symbol appears, to the right or left or both of the foot-position symbols. When the hand or hands are released, a bar/slash appears at the base of the claw. 
In his notes to *The Assembly*, Tom Cook murmurs something about a general preference for going to the *left.* Which, arguably, has something to do with the relative frequency of clockwise motion (r-h turn; two-hand turns, which for us, go cw; passing by right shoulder; circles left). I'm not prepared to say that there is a species-wide preference for heading left, tho' it is the apparent direction of the sun's "movement" (check nearest sundial)--it's simply food for thought.     
Now you're going to ask me *which* dances I mean--and I'd have to go look them up.  
 Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-yahoo.com> wrote:--- Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
> The Strathspey List posed the question of what does the term "turn"
> mean, in original instructions, when unmodified by any other
> instruction.
> 
> Using _The Playford Ball_ (Keller and Shimer) as a way of comparing
> original instructions to reconstructions, I see that Sharp, Pat
> Shaw, and others interpret "turn" as being done with two hands. 
> The question is: how did they know that? Was this an arbitrary
> choice, or are there sources that say, or at least strongly imply,
> that a "turn" is a two-handed figure?

To me, "turn" doesn't at all imply that it be with two hands. The
person teaching should specify right, left or two handed turns when
teaching. The question is, how do you know as a teacher which it
should be? Experience? "Tradition"? Somebody else's written
instructions? Sometimes the previous or following figure might give a
hint by which hand is, or needs to be, free.

Andy in Portland

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<P>My glances at Feuillet-notation English country dances (in Feuille=
t, Essex, Jayme &amp;c.) suggests that&nbsp;often as not, the&nbsp;de=
fault "turn" where indicated (Essex usually leaves it out) is in fact=
 a turn by the right hand--even where I might have expected to find a=
 turn by two hands.&nbsp;You can indicate a turn in Feuillet--a littl=
e claw-like symbol appears, to the right or left or both of the foot-=
position symbols. When the hand or hands are released, a bar/slash ap=
pears at the base of the&nbsp;claw.&nbsp;
<P>In his notes to&nbsp;*The Assembly*, Tom Cook murmurs something ab=
out a general preference for going to the *left.* Which, arguably, ha=
s something to do with the relative frequency of clockwise motion (r-=
h turn; two-hand turns,&nbsp;which for us,&nbsp;go cw; passing by rig=
ht shoulder; circles left). I'm not prepared to say that&nbsp;there i=
s a species-wide preference for heading left, tho' it is the apparent=
 direction of the sun's "movement" (check nearest sundial)--it's simp=
ly food for thought.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>Now you're going to ask me *which* dances I mean--and I'd have to =
go look them up.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>Andy Peterson &lt;lyrlsbro-AT-yahoo.com&gt;</I></B> wrote=
:
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT=
: #1010ff 2px solid">--- Patricia Ruggiero <RUGGIEROP-AT-EARTHLINK.NET>w=
rote:<BR>&gt; The Strathspey List posed the question of what does the=
 term "turn"<BR>&gt; mean, in original instructions, when unmodified =
by any other<BR>&gt; instruction.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Using _The Playfor=
d Ball_ (Keller and Shimer) as a way of comparing<BR>&gt; original in=
structions to reconstructions, I see that Sharp, Pat<BR>&gt; Shaw, an=
d others interpret "turn" as being done with two hands. <BR>&gt; The =
question is: how did they know that? Was this an arbitrary<BR>&gt; ch=
oice, or are there sources that say, or at least strongly imply,<BR>&=
gt; that a "turn" is a two-handed figure?<BR><BR>To me, "turn" doesn'=
t at all imply that it be with two hands. The<BR>person teaching shou=
ld specify right, left or two handed turns when<BR>teaching. The ques=
tion is, how do you know as a teacher which it<BR>should be? Experien=
ce? "Tradition"? Somebody else's written<BR>instructions?=20

<a href=3D"http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.co=
m">Yahoo! Mail Plus</a> - Powerful. Affordable. <a href=3D"http://rd.=
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:07:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:07:21 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFD3379C70.28578799-ON85256C91.004FDFAB-AT-biogen.com>
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It can alleviate some of the bad vibes if the leader warns people in
advance that they may experience assistance from their peers on the floor
during the dance. I do this if I have reason to suspect that it WILL happen
in the upcoming number.  I encourage experienced dancers to communicate
help and reminders more by example or subtle suggestive moves than by words
or tactless remarks on the fly. For example, as a dancer I have often found
that simply by adjusting my postion to leave the new position wide open for
my neighbor, bewilderment in his/her face becomes a look of "Oh yeah, now I
remember" kind of enlightenment. I simple flourish of the hand, tilt of the
head, or shift of the eyes can send clueless couples into a figure eight
they had forgotten about just as a gentle weight emphasis in the joined
hand at the end of a circle might remind people of a corner cross. As you
know from our previous discussions, I feel the music is the most compelling
coach in the dance hall and verbal communications often interphere with
this. By too stridently drawing a dancer's attention away from the music,
you handicap them at the same time that you intend to help them.

Sorry - my points:
1) It does not hurt for the leader to remind dancers that "help" from their
peers during the dance is not usually INTENDED to be rude, humiliating or
critical, and
2) Coaching dancers on the non-verbal means of communication that are
sitting right there as part of the choreography are often all it takes to
compliment the instructions embedded in the music.

Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 07:07:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:41:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <Roger-AT-just.net>
Subject: Mind Reading, or, Re: 'Helping' During Dances (Could be "Mars and Venus")
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: franch-AT-juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <62036.148.184.176.32.1040049696.squirrel-AT-www.weitzman.com>
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References: <20021215.165536.-370415.4.franch-AT-juno.com>

Hi, Mike and all,

After reading the interchanges on cues between dancers, etc., I'm moved to
make a comment about communication between peoples. And, forgive me if I
sound preachy - - it's hard to find just the right words when one means to
offer constructive criticism.
-- 
Roger W. Broseus

> Some time ago, Bruce Hamilton asked the list how we felt about receiving
> unasked help (prompting from other dancers) during a dance.  I gained a
> lot from his discussion of this issue last summer at Buffalo Gap,
> although I'm still not comfortable with a blanket prohibition on
> freelance prompting.  Since last summer, however, I've become aware that
> I have two kinds of reactions to unasked for help.

[snips]

> 1.  Sometimes I'm grateful for help.

[snip]

> 2.  But I find that my blood pressure really rises when the help
> continues.  The helper assumes that because I needed help at Point A, I
> will also need it for Points B, C, . . . and thus offers it.  I'm afraid
> that I have such a strong reaction to this that, a week ago at the
> practice session for the Germantown Ball, I was rude to a person who
> helped me when I really needed help, and then proffered directions in

I once participated in a professionally led discussion on communication
between spouses.  My reaction to your comment (and a few others on ECD) is
that the difficulty with your situation is an implicit expectation that
others can read your mind. It's like the classical spouse-to-spouse
communication situation in which one is expected to know what the other
one wants. We can not read one another's minds and if, as you pointed out,
one logical result of needing help is an assumption that it might continue
to be needed, well then, the person read you mind incorrectly. Withour
direct, mind-to-mind communication, this is likely to happen. I think you
correctly diagnosed the situation. In fact, thanks for the
self-examination and public expression of the difficulty.

*I* and others get frustrated in ECD when the reaction that is 'expected'
(read: mind-reading to some extent), in English country dance, is not the
response one gets. In particular, it seems to me that there is a whole set
of expectations of behavior in ECD that, when 'violated,' sometimes
results in subtle and not-so-subtle expressions of disapproval. This is
particualry unfortunate for the new comer, especially when the person is
striving to do his/her best and meets up with a dance constable (the ECD
variant of the contra dance police). Beware the self righteous guardians
of propriety who scare-off newcomomers and even those who have achieved a
'middle-level' of dance expertise.

Of course, even the un-selfrighteousness must beware, lest they are guilty
of the very thing they criticize. I, too, have been guilty of impatience
with the dancer who is forever on the learning curve, giving unappreciated
cues. (Someone let me know about this recently at a local dance. I, too,
got red in the face.)

In the end, I recall the words of Mary Kay Friday: she described our local
dance as being primarily a 'social dance.' For me, that means working to
be accepting of new dancers, helping them along as others did me (in my
case, with a major dose of toleration), and ejoying the interactions and
good fellowship with others. In short, enjoying the dance.

Best regards,

/Roger


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:19:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:18:55 -0800
From: bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Drive the Cold Winter Away
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD038D6909-AT-ALEX2>
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I'm not near my notes now, but as I remember this is a non-progressive set for eight, in which only the 1s get to lead the chorus.  Has anyone tried adjusting it so that the chorus is led from other positions (pretty hard) or so that it progresses?

  -Bruce

bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com  Tel: +1 650 485 2818  Fax: +1 650 485 4917
Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:23:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:23:34 -0500
From: eba-AT-umich.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Drive the Cold Winter Away
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <11496937.1040041414-AT-OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu>
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I remember doing it somewhere where the bottom man got to lead the figure 
some of the time, but it wasn't equal, and those in between still missed 
out.  I don't remember who led it.

Eric Arnold



--On Monday, December 16, 2002 9:18 AM -0800 bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com 
wrote:

> I'm not near my notes now, but as I remember this is a non-progressive
> set for eight, in which only the 1s get to lead the chorus.  Has anyone
> tried adjusting it so that the chorus is led from other positions (pretty
> hard) or so that it progresses?
>
>   -Bruce
>
> bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com  Tel: +1 650 485 2818  Fax: +1 650 485 4917
> Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:41:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:41:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Drive the Cold Winter Away
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021216174132.72003.qmail-AT-web13115.mail.yahoo.com>
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"Drive the Cold Winter Away" is a set dance for 8 (four couples), not first edition, but I think pre-1670. It looks very much as though, in original form, the 1st man and then the 1st woman and then the first man lead, others participating, but not leading. 
I believe that Andrew Shaw has a version where the action is led by 1st man and 4th man, 1st woman and 4th woman, for the most part--so, very likely the same that Eric has danced [but now that I look at the original, it may be more or less the dance as written]. Still, not precisely "equal" (not that I think that's always important--why *should* everyone expect to be a 1, in every dance?). Tricky to phrase, in any version, and not for all tastes. 
 eba-AT-umich.edu wrote:I remember doing it somewhere where the bottom man got to lead the figure 
some of the time, but it wasn't equal, and those in between still missed 
out. I don't remember who led it.

Eric Arnold



--On Monday, December 16, 2002 9:18 AM -0800 bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com 
wrote:

> I'm not near my notes now, but as I remember this is a non-progressive
> set for eight, in which only the 1s get to lead the chorus. Has anyone
> tried adjusting it so that the chorus is led from other positions (pretty
> hard) or so that it progresses?
>
> -Bruce
>
> bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com Tel: +1 650 485 2818 Fax: +1 650 485 4917
> Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303



Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


---------------------------------
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<P>"Drive the Cold Winter Away" is a set dance for 8 (four couples), not first edition, but I think pre-1670. It looks very much as though, in original form, the 1st man and then the 1st woman and then the first man lead, others participating, but not leading. 
<P>I believe that Andrew Shaw has a version where the action is&nbsp;led by 1st man and 4th man, 1st woman and 4th woman, for the most part--so, very likely the same that Eric has danced [but now that I look at the original, it may be&nbsp;more or less the dance as written]. Still, not precisely "equal" (not that I think that's always important--why *should* everyone expect to be a 1, in every dance?). Tricky to phrase, in any&nbsp;version, and not for all tastes.&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>eba-AT-umich.edu</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">I remember doing it somewhere where the bottom man got to lead the figure <BR>some of the time, but it wasn't equal, and those in between still missed <BR>out. I don't remember who led it.<BR><BR>Eric Arnold<BR><BR><BR><BR>--On Monday, December 16, 2002 9:18 AM -0800 bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com <BR>wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm not near my notes now, but as I remember this is a non-progressive<BR>&gt; set for eight, in which only the 1s get to lead the chorus. Has anyone<BR>&gt; tried adjusting it so that the chorus is led from other positions (pretty<BR>&gt; hard) or so that it progresses?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Bruce<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com Tel: +1 650 485 2818 Fax: +1 650 485 4917<BR>&gt; Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Graham Christian<br>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:17:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:17:47 -0800
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Drive the Cold Winter Away
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DFE18CB.1F094719-AT-opendoor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD038D6909-AT-ALEX2>

Yes, only the 1s get to lead it (first one side and then the other) and they lead it from both top and bottom of the set so the others in the set all get to do the turns (which Playford just says turn and Sharp has as 2-hand turns, the first one ccw
and the second cw).

The 3rd chorus repeats the first and in the past we've changed the 3rd chorus altogether to a modified progressive grand chain sort of thing. We are planning to do it tonight and may play with the handing of the turns - I'll let you know how it goes.

Brooke Friendly
Ashland OR

bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com wrote:

> I'm not near my notes now, but as I remember this is a non-progressive set for eight, in which only the 1s get to lead the chorus.  Has anyone tried adjusting it so that the chorus is led from other positions (pretty hard) or so that it progresses?
>
>   -Bruce
>
> bruce_hamilton-AT-agilent.com  Tel: +1 650 485 2818  Fax: +1 650 485 4917
> Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:19:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:16:19 +0000 (gmt)
From: Matthew Lewis <matthew.lewis-AT-ic.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: London: Baroque Dance Steps for Country Dance
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0212161806020.15682-100000-AT-disraeli.ma.ic.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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(Posting on behalf of Philippa Waite)

This is just to inform you all about a series of Workshops to be held at
Cecil Sharp House in London, starting in January 2003.

Full details at:

  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/p.waite3/classes/london-cd.html

Quick summary:

  An Introduction to Baroque Dance Steps for use in Country Dancing

                           Cecil Sharp House
                        Saturdays: 2.15 - 5.45

                     January 18th      March 15th
                       May 17th        July 19th
                    September 20th   November 15th

 Fees:  6 pounds per session (concessions/EFDSS members 5 pounds)

This series of workshops will concentrate on the Baroque dance technique
required to master steps typically used in the country dances of the late
17th and early 18th centuries.  In each workshop, the emphasis will be on
mastering the correct style of dancing Baroque steps that can be
incorporated in one or two country dances chosen for each workshop.

For further information, please contact Philippa Waite, tel: 029 2049 0680
mobile: 07976 374482

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:24:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:24:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Terence Gaffney <gaff-AT-neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mind Reading, or, Re: 'Helping' During Dances (Could be "Mars and Venus")
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.03.10212161316520.27833-100000-AT-research.neu.edu>
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This is an interesting discussion. It seems to me that the person mainly
responsible for hints is the partner.  If the dancing couple is clueless
after a walkthrough and two rounds, then the leader ought to intervene.  

When I ask someone to dance, the first thing we do is exchange names, if
my partner is new to me.  Then we have some social conversation about
dancing while the sets are forming, which gives me a good idea of my
partners experience level before we start.  If the person has no prior
dance experience then on the walk throughs I might try to make some short
additional comments about the figures-when we do a circular hey, we are
walking around a square and so on.  This gives me a prompt I can use
during the dance if my partner seems confuse-"walk around the square".
Cammy in his post alluded to a group of subtle techniques for giving cues
during the dance-finishing a turn giving a slight additional pressure to
give the direction for the next movement, incorporating a hand flourish
giving directions on figure eights into your dance style.  Courtesy
movements can become useful clues. For verbal cues it depends on how my
partner and I are doing, and my partners experience level.  With
experienced dancers who occasionally lose the figure, I wait until its
clear that theyve lost it-next time through I again wait at the same point
using discrete non-verbal clues if possible before the figure.You do want
to give your partner every chance to recover on their own. We cant be
mind readers, but we can be body readers.  With inexperienced dancers who
are trusting me to get them through the dance I do more.

Our attitude toward inexperienced dancers is really important; its easy to
be annoyed with them if you interpret their false starts as cues, then get
thrown off yourself.  It is enjoyable to try to rise to the challenge,
though. Think ahead so you hold the proper movements in mind, so you cant
be thrown off.  There is another opportunity for experienced dancers. By
dancing with you, an inexperienced partner is making herself vulnerable.
Vulnerability offers a way to make a connection. For me there are few
experiences better than making a difficult dance seem easy to an
inexperienced, but emotionally responsive partner.

Best,
 Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:51:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:53:09 -0500
From: Alisa Dodson <alisa-AT-capercat.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03020900ba23d02b6dac-AT-[63.27.86.37]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Judy G wrote:

 One of my particular peeves is the
>partner who, when one instinctively begins to move on  the upbeat -- how can
>one not? -- attempts to physically restrain one, whispering loudly, "not
>YET!"

I've noticed the opposite problem:  someone moving well before the phrase
(and I don't mean on the upbeat, but just arriving way early and going on
early, not hearing the music) who offers me "help" because I have not moved
on early with them.  I like to stay in tune with my partner, but there are
limits... I usually just nod thanks but don't go til it's time.  Any good
advice for this kind of problem?

Alisa


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:00:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:59:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Terence Gaffney <gaff-AT-neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.03.10212161356360.27833-100000-AT-research.neu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Alisa Dodson wrote:

> Judy G wrote:
> 
>  One of my particular peeves is the
> >partner who, when one instinctively begins to move on  the upbeat -- how can
> >one not? -- attempts to physically restrain one, whispering loudly, "not
> >YET!"
> 
> I've noticed the opposite problem:  someone moving well before the phrase
> (and I don't mean on the upbeat, but just arriving way early and going on
> early, not hearing the music) who offers me "help" because I have not moved
> on early with them.  I like to stay in tune with my partner, but there are
> limits... I usually just nod thanks but don't go til it's time.  Any good
> advice for this kind of problem?
> 
> Alisa
> 
> 
This is a problem if partner is finishing a move you have been standing
still for.  I try holding up my forefinger and smiling, thne making an
extra effort to connect when it is time to go, but it's not a sure
solution.

best,
Terry

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:12:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:12:50 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Further Flights and Flying
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <BAY1-F3965YXw9PCNM60001482f-AT-hotmail.com>
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Hi, All--
    For anyone interested in purchasing Wendy Crouch's books (Flights of 
Fancy, Further Flights of Fancy), I have several copies available.  And 
while we're on the subject of flying. . . if you haven't heard  "Taking 
Off," the debut CD by the Flying Romanos, then this should top your 
Gotta-have-it-for-the-Holidays list.  It's a fabulous mix of old favorites 
and soon-to-be favorites energetically played by RObin Russell, MArnen 
Laibow-Koser and NOrma Castle.  They're local talent to the New York scene, 
so we're a little jaded having heard them "grow up" (so to speak) .  But I 
guess the word is out now and we're going to have to share them.  They 
played for our regular dance last Tuesday (Graham Christian was our guest 
caller) and at the end of the evening everybody was raving about how great 
the dance was!  I don't have my copy with me at the moment so I can't post 
the contents of the CD.  For further info about buying them in the 
quantities you'll need to stuff all your stockings, contact Susan Amesse or 
Robin Russell--I think they're both on this list.
Ho, Ho, Ho,
--Orly Krasner
okrasner-AT-hotmail.com




_________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:06:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:32:04 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Another "Carol" to dance
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021216.150030.-268059.46.dcculb-AT-juno.com>
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On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:45:20 -0500 Ellen Tepper <etepper-AT-juno.com>
writes:
> Another, though rarely sung "carol" in the ECD rep would be "Drive 
> the
> Cold Winter Away" sometimes indexed as "All hail to the days"
> The words, published by Durfey in 1702 (or so) speak of a benevolent
> attitude during the winter season.

Here's a version I have on a cassette by Owain Phyfe, a singer/guitarist
who's also a member of a group called the New World Renaissance Band. His
diction is a little unclear in parts, so there's a few words I'm not sure
of:

All hail to the days that merit more praise than all the rest of the year
And welcome the nights with double delights, as well for the poor as the
peer
Sweet blessings attend each merry man's friend, that over adversity may
(?)
Forgetting all wrongs, with poems and songs, to drive the cold winter
away.

'Tis ill for the mind with inclined to think of small injuries now
If frost thee do seek (?), doth lend her thy cheek, don't let her inhabit
thy brow
Cross out of thy books malevolent looks, for beauty and youth decay
And spend the long nights in honest delights, to drive the cold winter
away.

This time of the year is spent in good cheer, with neighbors together to
meet
To sit by the fire with friendly desire, with others in love to greet
All grudges forgot, a port in the pot (?), all sorrows aside they lay
The old and the young go carol this song, to drive the cold winter away.

Dawn Culbertson
Baltimore, MD

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 12:53:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:54:02 -0500
From: Alixe Dancer <alixed-AT-options.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Helping" During Dances
To: ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alixe writes:

Reading these com