Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:08:14 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:08:05 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
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   I've been asked to step in and be a last minute replacement at a
conference next week and lead an all day workshop on historical dance
and also lead a ball in the evening.  This is for the Midwest Open Air
Museums Coordinating Council.  This is an organization of historical sites
where the volunteers dress and act the parts of historical people.  I will
be using recorded music for the workshop so I think I have that covered.
However they have hired a band for the ball who play primarily old-time
string band music with Irish leanings.  From speaking to the band leader
I'm pretty sure they are unlikely to know any of the tunes for the dances
I might like to do and while I've sent them some music the time is just
too short for them to do much about learning new stuff.  So it looks like
I will be making do with what they know.  Only a fraction of the people
attending the conference will be attending my workshop since there are
several others going on at the same time, so I will need to plan a program
for the ball to suit a mostly inexperienced croud.  I hope to do at least
a few authentic period (early to mid 1800's) dances, but for the most
part I'll be using dances that give the flavor of the dances of the time.
If this was billed as a barn dance or something similar, and was taking
place in a barn, I wouldn't be as concerned.  However it's billed as a ball
and is being held in a historic hotel built in the 1850s, so I intend to
shoot for a more elegant type of program.

   My questions are does anyone have any suggestions for tunes that the
band might know that would go with more elegant dances which I can suggest
to them and/or any suggestions for dances which will go well with old-time
music, but have an elegant feel?  If I had a few smooth tunes and bouncy
tunes I could suggest, it would be a big help.  Here are a few of the dances
I'm considering; Waterfall Waltz, Cumberland Square Dance, La Russe, Portland
Fancy, Haste to the Wedding, Jefferson's Reel and Gay Gordons.  I would love
to be able to do The Wood Duck, The Duke of Kent's Waltz, Freeford Gardens
and some others like them, but I'm not so sure how well they will go with
tunes the band is likely to know.  I also have some quadrilles I would like
to use which have their own tunes, but I'm not sure what to suggest to the
band.  As I said some suggestions for bouncy and smooth old-time and Irish
tunes would be very helpful.  Also any suggestions for dances I might be
overlooking and that I should consider would be welcome.

   This is the sort of event I would love to have 6 months to prepare for
so I could do some research and find dances which are authentic as well as
accessible and give the band time to prepare the music.  However I've
got less than a week so none of that is really possible and we'll just have
to make do with dances I know and tunes the band knows and hope it comes
together OK.

   Thanks for any suggestions.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:15:41 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:11:26 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Toss in the Virginia Reel...always a winner and work with about any kind of 
tune.

Mike

--Boundary_(ID_EUb3TVfZjdhoK14AG2DQ9w)
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<html>
<font size=3>Toss in the Virginia Reel...always a winner and work with
about any kind of tune.<br><br>
Mike<br>
</font></html>

--Boundary_(ID_EUb3TVfZjdhoK14AG2DQ9w)--
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:34:27 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:34:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Mike Mudrey writes:
> 
> 
> Toss in the Virginia Reel...always a winner and work with about any kind of 
> tune.

   I should have thought of that one.  I'm calling the local contra dance
tonight so I haven't actually started planning for this event, I'll start
on it tomorrow.  Thanks.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:44:20 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:47:54 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <200211011608.gA1G85O04691-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>

<<If I had a few smooth tunes and bouncy
tunes I could suggest, it would be a big help.  Here are a few of the dances
I'm considering; Waterfall Waltz, Cumberland Square Dance, La Russe,
Portland
Fancy, Haste to the Wedding, Jefferson's Reel and Gay Gordons.  I would love
to be able to do The Wood Duck, The Duke of Kent's Waltz, Freeford Gardens
and some others like them, but I'm not so sure how well they will go with
tunes the band is likely to know.  I also have some quadrilles I would like
to use which have their own tunes, but I'm not sure what to suggest to the
band.  As I said some suggestions for bouncy and smooth old-time and Irish
tunes would be very helpful.  Also any suggestions for dances I might be
overlooking and that I should consider would be welcome.>>

You probably could do "Fenterlarick" to a lot of old-time tunes; I'd guess
it'd go very nicely with, for example, "Nail That Catfish to a Tree". "Knole
Park" also has the right structure and feel for an old-time tune, maybe not
one of the super-wild ones but one of the smoother ones. "Going Down to
Cairo", perhaps. And, of course, you can do Duke of Kent's to any standard
32-bar waltz; "Tombigbee Waltz" with no repeats is a good possibility. Even
better, perhaps, might be "Westphalia Waltz", again with no repeats.

Peace,
Paul

   This is the sort of event I would love to have 6 months to prepare for
so I could do some research and find dances which are authentic as well as
accessible and give the band time to prepare the music.  However I've
got less than a week so none of that is really possible and we'll just have
to make do with dances I know and tunes the band knows and hope it comes
together OK.

   Thanks for any suggestions.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:47:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:47:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211011647.gA1Gl1520804-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Paul Stamler writes:
> 
> You probably could do "Fenterlarick" to a lot of old-time tunes; I'd guess
> it'd go very nicely with, for example, "Nail That Catfish to a Tree". "Knole
> Park" also has the right structure and feel for an old-time tune, maybe not
> one of the super-wild ones but one of the smoother ones. "Going Down to
> Cairo", perhaps. And, of course, you can do Duke of Kent's to any standard
> 32-bar waltz; "Tombigbee Waltz" with no repeats is a good possibility. Even
> better, perhaps, might be "Westphalia Waltz", again with no repeats.

   I actually did the Waterfall Waltz dance to the tune Tombigbee Waltz
last year.  It worked out quite well.  Thanks for the suggestions.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:49:39 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:45:25 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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mail.mhtc.net>
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I should have thought even further!!
I have a mixed Vintage (Civil War)/ECD event to call at the beginning of 
December in Stoughton, Wisconsin...their Victorian Winter Holidays!

I am starting with Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) and ending with Wood 
Duck (a local water fowl!!)  Won't tell the crowd when Wood Duck was written!!

Best of luck, Jonathan...mm



At 10:34 AM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Mike Mudrey writes:
> >
> >
> > Toss in the Virginia Reel...always a winner and work with about any 
> kind of
> > tune.
>
>    I should have thought of that one.  I'm calling the local contra dance
>tonight so I haven't actually started planning for this event, I'll start
>on it tomorrow.  Thanks.
>
>Jonathan

--Boundary_(ID_VgUF+qvV0Cpmd+XZd4RvBQ)
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<html>
<font size=3>I should have thought even further!!<br>
I have a mixed Vintage (Civil War)/ECD event to call at the beginning of
December in Stoughton, Wisconsin...their Victorian Winter
Holidays!<br><br>
I am starting with Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) and ending with Wood
Duck (a local water fowl!!)&nbsp; Won't tell the crowd when Wood Duck was
written!!<br><br>
Best of luck, Jonathan...mm<br><br>
<br><br>
At 10:34 AM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mike Mudrey writes:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Toss in the Virginia Reel...always a winner and work with about any
kind of <br>
&gt; tune.<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; I should have thought of that one.&nbsp; I'm calling the
local contra dance<br>
tonight so I haven't actually started planning for this event, I'll
start<br>
on it tomorrow.&nbsp; Thanks.<br><br>
Jonathan</font></blockquote></html>

--Boundary_(ID_VgUF+qvV0Cpmd+XZd4RvBQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 08:54:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:54:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211011654.gA1Gs4A23760-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Mike Mudrey writes:
> 
> I should have thought even further!!
> I have a mixed Vintage (Civil War)/ECD event to call at the beginning of 
> December in Stoughton, Wisconsin...their Victorian Winter Holidays!
> 
> I am starting with Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) and ending with Wood 
> Duck (a local water fowl!!)  Won't tell the crowd when Wood Duck was written!!

   Is that event open to the public?  If so can you send me some info and
I'll pass it on to the people at the workshop and ball next week.  This
event is being held in Galena, IL, not too far from you I think.  In fact
I think I was told at least one of the band members is from Madison.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 09:14:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:08:45 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Response to Jonathan Sivier -- viz Stoughton Wisconsin
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021101110115.02468740-AT-
mail.mhtc.net>
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Will do...is open the public...

http://www.stoughtonwi.com/VictorianHoliday.htm

This is all I have at this time..

Date: Friday, December 6th
Time: 8-11 p.m.
Place: Tobacco Junction Warehouse (on Main St. near the Depot) Format: They 
plan a 3-part evening.

The first hour will be ballroom dancing, taught and led by one of the dance 
instructors at Colleen Kehl's dance school here. Music will be provided by 
Stoughton High School strings players.

The second hour is uncertain, probably some group from the UW, but Colleen 
doesn't know exactly what yet.

The third hour will be the ECD/Civil War era social dance, led by you and 
with music by me and Maria.
So we're looking at one hour, which I see would include 4-5 dances from a 
mid-19th century English/American tradition.

Mostly what we're all hoping is that people who enjoy ECD and dressing up 
and some ballroom dancing will come for the whole
thing.

mm

At 10:54 AM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Mike Mudrey writes:
> >
> > I should have thought even further!!
> > I have a mixed Vintage (Civil War)/ECD event to call at the beginning of
> > December in Stoughton, Wisconsin...their Victorian Winter Holidays!
> >
> > I am starting with Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) and ending with Wood
> > Duck (a local water fowl!!)  Won't tell the crowd when Wood Duck was 
> written!!
>
>    Is that event open to the public?  If so can you send me some info and
>I'll pass it on to the people at the workshop and ball next week.  This
>event is being held in Galena, IL, not too far from you I think.  In fact
>I think I was told at least one of the band members is from Madison.
>
>Jonathan

--Boundary_(ID_peYshwEo13H7gSKTScEeMw)
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<html>
<font size=3>Will do...is open the public...<br><br>
<a href="http://www.stoughtonwi.com/VictorianHoliday.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.stoughtonwi.com/VictorianHoliday.htm</a><br><br>
This is all I have at this time..<br><br>
<i>Date: Friday, December 6th <br>
Time: 8-11 p.m. <br>
Place: Tobacco Junction Warehouse (on Main St. near the Depot) Format:
They plan a 3-part evening. <br><br>
The first hour will be ballroom dancing, taught and led by one of the
dance instructors at Colleen Kehl's dance school here. Music will be
provided by Stoughton High School strings players. <br><br>
The second hour is uncertain, probably some group from the UW, but
Colleen doesn't know exactly what yet. <br><br>
The third hour will be the ECD/Civil War era social dance, led by you and
with music by me and Maria.<br>
So we're looking at one hour, which I see would include 4-5 dances from a
mid-19th century English/American tradition. <br><br>
Mostly what we're all hoping is that people who enjoy ECD and dressing up
and some ballroom dancing will come for the whole <br>
thing. <br><br>
</i>mm<br><br>
At 10:54 AM 11/1/02 -0600, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mike Mudrey writes:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I should have thought even further!!<br>
&gt; I have a mixed Vintage (Civil War)/ECD event to call at the
beginning of <br>
&gt; December in Stoughton, Wisconsin...their Victorian Winter
Holidays!<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I am starting with Duke of Kent (Victoria's father) and ending with
Wood <br>
&gt; Duck (a local water fowl!!)&nbsp; Won't tell the crowd when Wood
Duck was written!!<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Is that event open to the public?&nbsp; If so can you send
me some info and<br>
I'll pass it on to the people at the workshop and ball next week.&nbsp;
This<br>
event is being held in Galena, IL, not too far from you I think.&nbsp; In
fact<br>
I think I was told at least one of the band members is from
Madison.<br><br>
Jonathan</font></blockquote></html>

--Boundary_(ID_peYshwEo13H7gSKTScEeMw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 10:15:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 18:15:08 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
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I once used a home-grown variant of Galopede in an American music class I 
taught once and used a vintage recording of  Irish fiddlers for the music.  
It's like the Virginia Reel, I suppose, but it might suit the occasion.

--Orly Krasner





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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 11:28:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 13:28:44 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211011928.gA1JSix22909-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Orly Krasner writes:
> 
> I once used a home-grown variant of Galopede in an American music class I 
> taught once and used a vintage recording of  Irish fiddlers for the music.  
> It's like the Virginia Reel, I suppose, but it might suit the occasion.

   Thanks.  That's another one I have done before, but hadn't put on my list.
I'll add it now.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:17:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:17:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021101231732.67870.qmail-AT-
web13602.mail.yahoo.com>
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How about Margaret's Waltz?  

B.


--- Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> Orly Krasner writes:
> > 
> > I once used a home-grown variant of Galopede in an American music
> class I 
> > taught once and used a vintage recording of  Irish fiddlers for
> the music.  
> > It's like the Virginia Reel, I suppose, but it might suit the
> occasion.
> 
>    Thanks.  That's another one I have done before, but hadn't put
> on my list.
> I'll add it now.
> 
> Jonathan
> 


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:53:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 20:57:39 -0500
From: Alisa Dodson <alisa-AT-
capercat.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: great tunes...directions, anyone?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[63.27.86.231]>
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Actually, this is Allen...
   Seeing Dawn Culbertson's posting regarding Bouzer Castle reminds
me...does anyone have the dance instructions for "The Charming Maid", which
has a rattling good tune which Brass Monkey put on one of their CDs?  I
gather it's a 3-couple dance.
  Also, does anyone know of a dance "Jig by Greenland" or a title like
that?  In Vic Gammon's Sussex Tune Book there is a jig by that name which
sounds like it must have its origins in some 18th-century published ECD.
Another great tune, would be fun to dance to.

Allen Dodson
Weidman MI




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:22:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:23:12 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <1792D718-EE4D-11D6-93C0-0003936BABDA-AT-
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It is interesting that you would want to include modern dances when the 
intention, as I understood it, was "to give a flavour of the period". 
Waterfall Waltz, Margaret's Waltz, Freeford Gardens and the Wood Duck 
are all modern dances.

Graham Knight

On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 11:17 PM, Barbara Ruth wrote:

> How about Margaret's Waltz?
>
> B.
>
>
> --- Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>> Orly Krasner writes:
>>>
>>> I once used a home-grown variant of Galopede in an American music
>> class I
>>> taught once and used a vintage recording of  Irish fiddlers for
>> the music.
>>> It's like the Virginia Reel, I suppose, but it might suit the
>> occasion.
>>
>>    Thanks.  That's another one I have done before, but hadn't put
>> on my list.
>> I'll add it now.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>
>
> =====
> "There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of 
> one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not 
> safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:27:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:28:08 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Advanced dances workshop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <C7CFEDFE-EE4D-11D6-93C0-0003936BABDA-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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We recently attended an advanced dance workshop and the following 
thoughts occurred to us. We would be really interested to hear what 
other dancersí thoughts are ñ here are a few of our preliminary 
questions:

Why run an "advanced dancers" workshop?
Who wants to attend?
What constitutes an "advanced" dancer?
How do you get the right dancers there?
How do they self-assess their capabilities? (As it appears that only 
GUSTO offers structured training, how would they know what they need to 
know?)
What does a participant expect to get from such a series of workshops?
What sort of dances would the tutor include?
As none of the usual material, presumably, is likely to be particularly 
challenging, to someone who is an advanced dancer what should be 
included in the programme?
How does the tutor sustain the dancers' interest? (e.g. pace, 
involvement, application, creativity)
Are comments on finesse appropriate - or are "advanced dancers" by 
definition thinking dancers?

Any comments? The views of our trans-Atlantic dancers would be most 
welcome as well as those from this side of the pond!

Wendy & Graham Knight

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:38:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:39:19 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mr. Cosgill's Delight on  Flying Romanos CD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <57C35F10-EE4F-11D6-93C0-0003936BABDA-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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Might one ask how one does "a light strathspey" step. On this side of 
the Pond it is usually done, when it is done, with a 1-2-3-hop step. I 
say when it is done because it is usually played fairly fast and most 
dancers these days do not have age and fitness on their side to cope 
with the dance.

Graham Knight

On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 01:19 AM, Alan Winston - SSRL Central 
Computing wrote:
>
> Chris Sackett of Ashland taught the dance with "a light strathspey" step
> (demonstrated very clearly) in my presence, and I found the dance 
> pleasant
> enough but it didn't enter my repertoire.  I don't know whether it's a 
> regular
> part of his.
>
> -- Alan
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:49:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:49:47 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Winter Solstice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net
Message-ID: <CE27B380-EE50-11D6-93C0-0003936BABDA-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_44zYs8T3wSv/CH34Jcfeiw)"


--Boundary_(ID_44zYs8T3wSv/CH34Jcfeiw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

For your information Wendy's e-mail address is 
wendy-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk. If had realised she is now married.

Also out of a matter of curiosity, where did you get your instructions 
for the dance from. Copies of Further Flights of Fancy are still 
available as are copies of her book Flights of Fancy. She has also put 
together a limited collection of her dances which she has submitted to 
the Sussex Folk Harvest, an annual competition for writers of social, 
ritual, traditional dances and song. Her dances have won 6 times out of 
the 13 entries she has submitted. If you would like more details of 
these please send us an e-mail.

Graham Knight

On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:34 PM, John Wood wrote:

> Hi, Dancers:
>  
> I need help on the first 8 bars of "Winter Solstice."
>  
> I do not have Wendy Crouch's e-mail address [if she has
> one] so intrude here to ask:
>  
> While the 1st, Centre, and 3rd Couples are dancing a
> Grimstock hey the Sides are:
>  
> dancing Sharp siding, set and turn single [twice; over and
> back again].
>  
> I find from these instructions too much material for 8 bars
> of music, i.e. 4 steps siding, 4 steps setting and 4 steps
> turn single x 2 = 24 steps -- not 16 for 8 bars.
>  
> How come? Where do I go wrong?
>  
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>  
> Regards, John
>  
> Bedford, Nova Scotia
>  

--Boundary_(ID_44zYs8T3wSv/CH34Jcfeiw)
Content-type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

For your information Wendy's e-mail address is
wendy-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk. If had realised she is now married.


Also out of a matter of curiosity, where did you get your instructions
for the dance from. Copies of Further Flights of Fancy are still
available as are copies of her book Flights of Fancy. She has also put
together a limited collection of her dances which she has submitted to
the Sussex Folk Harvest, an annual competition for writers of social,
ritual, traditional dances and song. Her dances have won 6 times out
of the 13 entries she has submitted. If you would like more details of
these please send us an e-mail.


Graham Knight


On Tuesday, October 22, 2002, at 01:34 PM, John Wood wrote:


<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Hi, Dancers:</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I need help on the first 8
bars of "Winter Solstice."</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I do not have Wendy Crouch's
e-mail address [if she has</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>one] so intrude here to ask:</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>While the 1st, Centre, and
3rd Couples are dancing a</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Grimstock hey the Sides are:</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>dancing Sharp siding, set and
turn single [twice; over and</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>back again].</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>I find from these
instructions too much material for 8 bars</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>of music, i.e. 4 steps
siding, 4 steps setting and 4 steps</smaller></fontfamily>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>turn single x 2 = 24 steps --
not 16 for 8 bars.</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>How come? Where do I go wrong?</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Thank you in advance for your
help.</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Regards, John</smaller></fontfamily>

 

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>Bedford, Nova Scotia</smaller></fontfamily>

 

</excerpt>

--Boundary_(ID_44zYs8T3wSv/CH34Jcfeiw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 02:53:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:50:57 +0000
From: Trev <trevuk-AT-
hotpop.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Advanced dances workshop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002701c2825d$d5d3eb80$7b4479d5-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <C7CFEDFE-EE4D-11D6-93C0-0003936BABDA-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>

Hi Wendy & Graham,

Why did you attend the advanced dance workshop - and did you both attend
for the same reasons?
Did you attend to learn, or to dance with other people you hoped could
dance to some arbitrary standard?
Did you attend to do dances that you don't do very often, if ever, or to
learn (up to display standard - for want of a better word) easier dances
inside out.
Did you go because you have confidence in the tutors - had you heard of
them before?
Should advanced dancers stand out from the crowd - or fit in and be
unobtrusive with the rest of their set/ the rest of the room?

Just a few instant thoughts - what are your thoughts on the above?  I'm
sure most people on the list could write an essay on each of your
questions - and may be some will!!

Trev (Monson)



> We recently attended an advanced dance workshop and the following
> thoughts occurred to us. We would be really interested to hear what
> other dancersí thoughts are ñ here are a few of our preliminary
> questions:
>
> Why run an "advanced dancers" workshop?
> Who wants to attend?
> What constitutes an "advanced" dancer?
> How do you get the right dancers there?
> How do they self-assess their capabilities? (As it appears that only
> GUSTO offers structured training, how would they know what they need
to
> know?)
> What does a participant expect to get from such a series of workshops?
> What sort of dances would the tutor include?
> As none of the usual material, presumably, is likely to be
particularly
> challenging, to someone who is an advanced dancer what should be
> included in the programme?
> How does the tutor sustain the dancers' interest? (e.g. pace,
> involvement, application, creativity)
> Are comments on finesse appropriate - or are "advanced dancers" by
> definition thinking dancers?
>
> Any comments? The views of our trans-Atlantic dancers would be most
> welcome as well as those from this side of the pond!
>
> Wendy & Graham Knight
>
>
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 03:07:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 03:04:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Mr. Cosgill's Delight on  Flying Romanos CD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KODLBV0520A1ATH9-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Graham Knight wrote:

> Might one ask how one does "a light strathspey" step. On this side of
> the Pond it is usually done, when it is done, with a 1-2-3-hop step. I
> say when it is done because it is usually played fairly fast and most
> dancers these days do not have age and fitness on their side to cope
> with the dance.

It was a couple of years ago, and I remember hearing "a light strathspey" and
thinking "huh?" and then appreciating the demo.  I should probably let Chris or
Brooke, who are subscribed, explain, but what I recall was that it was a
strathspey that stayed up, with no big knee bend.

(Have I confused everyone now?)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 10:37:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 12:37:28 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211021837.gA2IbSY29825-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Graham Knight writes:
> 
> It is interesting that you would want to include modern dances when the 
> intention, as I understood it, was "to give a flavour of the period". 
> Waterfall Waltz, Margaret's Waltz, Freeford Gardens and the Wood Duck 
> are all modern dances.

   As I said if I had 6 months I might do the research necessary to find
authentic period dances which are also accessible to non/beginner dancers.
However seeing as I have only 6 days I pretty much have to go with dances
I already know.  I really only have this weekend to program 9 hours of
dancing, including music.  I think I can do it, but I'm not really sure.
Also there are plenty of recently written dances which, while not authentically
of the period, do indeed convey the flavor of the period.  After all what
is the actual difference between a USA dance I might write today versus one
published in Playford?  If they have the same basic figures doesn't the
modern one convey the flavor of a Playford dance?  Also aren't all of the
dances we do today really modern dances in a sense?  Even those that are
reconstructions of Playford dances are modern reconstructions?  In order to
be truly period (or as close as we can come) you would need to put in all
the of the footwork and stepping, etc.  That would be fine for a class of
advanced dancers at a dance camp, but it doesn't seem appropriate to me
for a group of beginners.  My goals are to get them moving to music, teach
them the basics of country dance by doing a variety of dances (new and old), 
nd have fun so they will look up dance groups in their own area when they go
home and continue to learn more about traditional dancing.  I have no
expectations of getting a polished performance of authentic dances from the
early 1800s.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:17:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 23:20:36 -0500
From: The Dupre Family <dupre-AT-
nerc.com>
Subject: 2nd Sunday English Country Tea Dances - Princeton, NJ
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000001c283b9$8ac5c340$6e84fea9-AT-
mo>
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Judi Rivkin and I are extremely pleased to announce a new series of 2nd
Sunday English Country Tea Dances in the Princeton, NJ area. Our very first
dance takes place this coming Sunday on November 10 at the Princeton Friends
School, Quaker Road, Princeton, NJ.  There will be no dance in December so
that we all may attend CDNY's Holiday Cotillion.

The format is:
2-3 p.m.: for dancers with good knowledge of ECD repertoire, for
talk-throughs, minimal walk-throughs, or teaching of challenging dances
3-3:30 p.m.: lovely tea for all, hot tea, sweet and savory treats
(guaranteed each month to feature my locally famous trifle)
3:30-5 p.m.: ECD for all

The band for our first Tea Dance is the Flying Romanos [Norma Castle, Robin
Russell and Marnen Laibow-Koser], who delight us all with their lively
playing, and who also have a brand new CD for your holiday shopping
consideration! Judi and I will lead the dances.  Admission: $10.

Please feel free to contact me at (609) 844-0459 or at dupre-AT-
nerc.com for
additional information or for directions.  You may also find a map and
directions to the Friends School online at
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/pcd/directions/dir_PFS.html. Please note
that although this month's dance will take place at the Friends School,
future dances may not, as Judi and I are optimistically negotiating for a
charming space located directly on the bus line from NYC to Princeton.  Stay
tuned for further announcements.

Judi and I offer our most fervent wishes that you'll be able to take
advantage of this opportunity to shirk domestic responsibilities in order to
enjoy terpsichorean pleasures.

Sue Dupre
Lawrenceville, NJ


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:27:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:27:11 -0800
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-
opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mr. Cosgill's Delight on  Flying Romanos CD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DC5F71F.641FA38D-AT-
opendoor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
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References: <01KODLBV0520A1ATH9-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Yes I suppose you could consider what we do as a sort of a 1-2-3-hop step although
by that I don't mean run, run, run, hop (or plod, plod, plod, hop as I've
sometimes seen) - the hop is really more of a lilt without necessarily leaving the
ground much and we tend to do it with our heels a millimeter off the ground. If
you think strathspey step (for those who know Scottish country dance) without the
big knee bend, way turned out feet, and closing in third (it's more bringing the
second foot sort of next to the other), light and relaxed rather than reach,
together, reach, and.... I imagine we play it a bit slower than what Graham is
used to though not near as slow as a strathspey.

It is easier to 'describe' with a demo.

Brooke in Oregon (who just got back from the Portland ball - loads of fun in a
great new hall)

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> Graham Knight wrote:
>
> > Might one ask how one does "a light strathspey" step. On this side of
> > the Pond it is usually done, when it is done, with a 1-2-3-hop step. I
> > say when it is done because it is usually played fairly fast and most
> > dancers these days do not have age and fitness on their side to cope
> > with the dance.
>
> It was a couple of years ago, and I remember hearing "a light strathspey" and
> thinking "huh?" and then appreciating the demo.  I should probably let Chris or
> Brooke, who are subscribed, explain, but what I recall was that it was a
> strathspey that stayed up, with no big knee bend.
>
> (Have I confused everyone now?)
>
> -- Alan
>
> ===============================================================================
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
> ===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 06:41:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:41:27 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFFFDAB1DD.0B719C0F-ON85256C67.00502FD3-AT-
biogen.com>
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I was thinking the same, but then recalled that for many audiences I have
inserted some technically not old material because it fit what they could
assimilate, it had an old flavor, and/or was tied to an old tradition. If I
think anyone cares, I announce what I am doing. For example I might say
"this dance is a more recent one to go with an old tune (The Gobby-O) that
was used for Th. Jefferson's Campaign song at the beginning of the 19th
century, so it is called Jefferson and Liberty" and I sing a little of the
campaign song. For those to whom it matters not at all, I just teach the
dance.


                                                                                                                                 
                      Graham Knight                                                                                              
                      <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co        To:       ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                  
                      .uk>                             cc:                                                                       
                      Sent by:                         Subject:  Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?                         
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S                                                                                  
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                      02-Nov-2002 05:23 AM                                                                                       
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 




It is interesting that you would want to include modern dances when the
intention, as I understood it, was "to give a flavour of the period".
Waterfall Waltz, Margaret's Waltz, Freeford Gardens and the Wood Duck
are all modern dances.

Graham Knight

>





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 06:51:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:51:13 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF5CBE6F0A.32CDBD0B-ON85256C67.00511971-AT-
biogen.com>
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You said:
If they have the same basic figures doesn't the
modern one convey the flavor of a Playford dance?

I would say - it helps to have the same basic figures, but more importantly
the flavor is conveyed by the music that accompanies the dances. As you
have noted, that flavor is likely to be old-timey. I would recommend that
you select dances that fit the flavor of the music and note to the
audience/participants that they are representative of a long heritage
rather than try to get the band to do something outside their strengths or
try to teach something that is historical and is no fun with the music you
have.
CK


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 08:13:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 10:12:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: elegant dancing with old-time band?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211041612.gA4GCxC29190-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Campbell Kaynor writes:
> 
> You said:
> If they have the same basic figures doesn't the
> modern one convey the flavor of a Playford dance?
> 
> I would say - it helps to have the same basic figures, but more importantly
> the flavor is conveyed by the music that accompanies the dances. As you
> have noted, that flavor is likely to be old-timey. I would recommend that
> you select dances that fit the flavor of the music and note to the
> audience/participants that they are representative of a long heritage
> rather than try to get the band to do something outside their strengths or
> try to teach something that is historical and is no fun with the music you
> have.

   That's the way I'm going with this event.

   Believe it or not I haven't forgotten about your dance "The Joy of Dance".
I've done it at our local English dance and got several very positive comments
about it.  It took a time or two through before the dancers "got it", but
then they loved it.  I want to do it again a time or two, and then I'll have
some time to work on getting it ready for publication over the holidays
next month (after our Christmas Ball).

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:25:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:25:33 -0800
From: "Ed St.Germain" <Patriot1-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
Subject: Harvest Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DC70FFC.16A44D14-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000001c283b9$8ac5c340$6e84fea9-AT-
mo>


If there are any Southern Californians out there, please be advised that
there are still a few tickets left for the Second Annual Harvest Ball in
Riverside on 23 November.

Details may be found at:
EnglishCountryDancing.org

Best regards,
Ed


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:48:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:48:21 -0800
From: Alan Ackerman <alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05200f04b9ed07d6f199-AT-
[158.252.219.95]>
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I attended a recent English country dance in Berkeley and one of the
musicians asked "What WAS the news from Tripoli in 1703?" (Lovely
dance!) I searched the Internet without success. (Unfortunately,
there is a family of card games called "Tripoley".) There doesn't
appear to have been any news from Tripoli in 1703. But of course, if
that was the date it was published by Playford, then it could have
been any date earlier!

He was looking at: The Barnes Book of English Country Dance Tunes
Expanded & Revised
© 1986, 1996 by Peter Barnes

News From Tripoli
1703
(p. 87)

Bruce Olson  on BALLAD-L pointed me to:

A facsimile of the tune from the Dancing Master can be found at:
<A href="http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/">
Dancing Master </A> Go to browse titles, select 'N' and scroll
down to "News.."

There are 8 references to "News from Tripoly " Note the different
spelling. (And dates from 1701-1728.)

I searched the index for this list and found only a set of bad puns
on Pat Shaw's name. See
<http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/htbin/hypermailnh/..ECDMAILFILE/ECD?thread=tripoli/>.

Any ideas?
--
Alan Ackerman, alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:59:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 00:59:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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 Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have been simply
"the prisoner is released".


Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:23:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:23:40 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DC7E27C.DF1541BE-AT-
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Will Linden wrote:
> 
>  Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have been simply
> "the prisoner is released".

It's a deliberate misspelling.  Imports from Africa to England in the early
18th century commonly had to be shipped via ports in the Middle East.  When
the Royal Zoological gardens acquired some particularly choice specimens,
they wanted to commemorate the occasion with a dance, but the transshipment
point was confused with the point of origin, so the dance was named "Gnus
from Tripoli."  When the error was discovered, the name had already caught
on, so the spelling was changed to avoid embarassment.  

I read that somewhere, so it must be true.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:29:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 01:11:55 -0500
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Elegant dancing at Sunday Tea Dance (Boston, MA)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100310b9ed103b14cc-AT-
[192.168.1.101]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>

All this talk of elegant dancing reminds me that I should mention 
that my Second Sunday Tea Dances are starting up again, this coming 
Sunday, November 10th.  We'll be doing dances of the 1890s (in 
preparation for the upcoming 1890s Ball).  Beginners welcome, no 
partner needed, all dances will be taught, and we'll be working on a 
mix of couple and set dances, including waltz, polka, contras, 
quadrilles, maybe the Virginia Reel.  This month, Patri Pugliese will 
be teaching and leading.


The dances are from 2-5, at the lovely Arts & Crafts movement First 
Unitarian Society of West Newton, Second Sunday of each month through 
April.  Recorded music, freshly brewed tea, home-made cookies, a 
bargain at five dollars.  Please, no shorts, no T-Shirts, and show up 
a few minutes early to stretch and warmup and change into your dance 
shoes (preferred but not required, but sneakers are a Bad Idea)

--Mike Bergman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 07:31:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:30:59 +0000
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugs.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DC7E433.41EDFFD9-AT-
ugs.com>
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--Boundary_(ID_K6GDtp8T4ayWv88TkOeU/A)
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Jon Berger wrote:

> Will Linden wrote:
> >
> >  Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have been simply
> > "the prisoner is released".
>
> It's a deliberate misspelling.  Imports from Africa to England in the early
> 18th century commonly had to be shipped via ports in the Middle East.  When
> the Royal Zoological gardens acquired some particularly choice specimens,
> they wanted to commemorate the occasion with a dance, but the transshipment
> point was confused with the point of origin, so the dance was named "Gnus
> from Tripoli."  When the error was discovered, the name had already caught
> on, so the spelling was changed to avoid embarassment.
>
> I read that somewhere, so it must be true.
>

London Zoo was founded in 1828 so this seems unlikely :-)
(Though you didn't say which Royal Zoological Society)

--Boundary_(ID_K6GDtp8T4ayWv88TkOeU/A)
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Jon Berger wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Will Linden wrote:
<br>>
<br>>&nbsp; Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have
been simply
<br>> "the prisoner is released".
<p>It's a deliberate misspelling.&nbsp; Imports from Africa to England
in the early
<br>18th century commonly had to be shipped via ports in the Middle East.&nbsp;
When
<br>the Royal Zoological gardens acquired some particularly choice specimens,
<br>they wanted to commemorate the occasion with a dance, but the transshipment
<br>point was confused with the point of origin, so the dance was named
"Gnus
<br>from Tripoli."&nbsp; When the error was discovered, the name had already
caught
<br>on, so the spelling was changed to avoid embarassment.
<p>I read that somewhere, so it must be true.
<br><a href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger"></a>&nbsp;</blockquote>
London Zoo was founded in 1828 so this seems unlikely :-)
<br>(Though you didn't say which Royal Zoological Society)</html>

--Boundary_(ID_K6GDtp8T4ayWv88TkOeU/A)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 08:10:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:09:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0211051109390.25326-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
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TAKE THAT MAN OUT AND *GAFIATE* HIM!

On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Jon Berger wrote:

> Will Linden wrote:
> >
> >  Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have been simply
> > "the prisoner is released".
>
> It's a deliberate misspelling.  Imports from Africa to England in the early
> 18th century commonly had to be shipped via ports in the Middle East.  When
> the Royal Zoological gardens acquired some particularly choice specimens,
> they wanted to commemorate the occasion with a dance, but the transshipment
> point was confused with the point of origin, so the dance was named "Gnus
> from Tripoli."  When the error was discovered, the name had already caught
> on, so the spelling was changed to avoid embarassment.
>
> I read that somewhere, so it must be true.
>
> --
> Jon Berger
> http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
>

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:19:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:18:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021105171858.42179.qmail-AT-
web13107.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--Boundary_(ID_jgPeQTVsCnkHP2rVgtaECQ)
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Many months ago, I informed this list that I was also seeking an explanation of the name of "News from Tripoli"--no particular result, even from my most scholarly resources. I have trolled on the 'Net for it without result. I will scrutinize contemporary periodicals for it--but not for several months. If--*when*--I find something, I'll post the news of the News to the list.    
 


Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now

--Boundary_(ID_jgPeQTVsCnkHP2rVgtaECQ)
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<P>Many months ago, I informed this list that I was also seeking&nbsp;an explanation of the name of&nbsp;"News from Tripoli"--no particular result, even from my most scholarly resources. I have trolled on the 'Net for it without result. I will scrutinize contemporary periodicals for it--but not for several months. If--*when*--I find something, I'll post the news of the News to the list.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;</P><BR><BR>Graham Christian<br>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/careers/mailsig/*http://www.hotjobs.com ">HotJobs</a> - Search new jobs daily now

--Boundary_(ID_jgPeQTVsCnkHP2rVgtaECQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 09:41:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 12:41:36 -0500
From: eba-AT-
umich.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <12528500.1036500096-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu>
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References: <20021105171858.42179.qmail-AT-
web13107.mail.yahoo.com>

In this context, it might be worth observing the lag which occurred in 
another case between an event historical and a dance commemorating it: 
Ramellies (sic) Rout," published I believe by Walsh in 1718 (see Fried 
Herman's "Fringe Benefits" book for details), commemorates the allied 
victory under Marlborough over the French at Ramillies, Belgium in 1706.

It seems possible that this might have been partly due to Marlborough 
having fallen out of favor for a while, so that society didn't get around 
to celebrating his victory in this way until after he was back in favor 
(and in England).  But that's purely my speculation...

Eric Arnold

--On Tuesday, November 05, 2002 9:18 AM -0800 Graham Christian 
<bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Many months ago, I informed this list that I was also seeking an
> explanation of the name of "News from Tripoli"--no particular result,
> even from my most scholarly resources. I have trolled on the 'Net for it
> without result. I will scrutinize contemporary periodicals for it--but
> not for several months. If--*when*--I find something, I'll post the news
> of the News to the list.
>
>
>
> Graham Christian
> "Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 11:20:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 13:20:36 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <perronnelle-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: What was the "News from Tripoli" (or Tripoly) in 1703 ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DC81A04.D35C6CEE-AT-
earthlink.net>
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References: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0211050059160.464-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com> <3DC7E27C.DF1541BE-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

Jon Berger wrote:
> 
> Will Linden wrote:
> >
> >  Considering the activities of Tripoli, the news might have been simply
> > "the prisoner is released".
> 
> It's a deliberate misspelling.  Imports from Africa to England in the early

[snip]

> I read that somewhere, so it must be true.

I needed a smile today.

Thanks,
--Charlene

-- 
Remember, inside every silver lining there's a dark cloud.  -- George
Carlin
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:00:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 20:00:27 -0800
From: Alan Ackerman <alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05200f00b9ee42155c81-AT-
[158.252.213.150]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20021105171858.42179.qmail-AT-
web13107.mail.yahoo.com> <12528500.1036500096-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu>

I learned a fair amount about the War of the Spanish Succession while 
hunting for this. Dates are 1701-14. It is possible that there was 
news from Tripoli during this war, but as the first Playford 
publication was 1701, not too likely.

I found the following on the Web:

The War of the Spanish Succession
1701-14
<http://www.kipar.org/kirkes_spanish_succession.html>

1702 Start of the War of the Spanish Succession - to prevent France 
uniting with Spain

1704 X Blenheim - John Churchill, Duke of Malborough, defeated the French

1706 X Ramillies - Malborough again defeated the French

1708 X Oudenarde - another of Malborough's victories over the French

1709 X Malplaquet - Malborough's last (very bloody) victory over the French

1713 Treaty of Utrecht - ended the war and stated that France and 
Spain should not unite
<http://www.mcjs.co.uk/historyevents.htm>


>In this context, it might be worth observing the lag which occurred 
>in another case between an event historical and a dance 
>commemorating it: Ramellies (sic) Rout," published I believe by 
>Walsh in 1718 (see Fried Herman's "Fringe Benefits" book for 
>details), commemorates the allied victory under Marlborough over the 
>French at Ramillies, Belgium in 1706.
>
>It seems possible that this might have been partly due to 
>Marlborough having fallen out of favor for a while, so that society 
>didn't get around to celebrating his victory in this way until after 
>he was back in favor (and in England).  But that's purely my 
>speculation...
>
>Eric Arnold
>

-- 
Alan Ackerman, alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:19:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 00:39:50 -0500
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021106053950.GL1581-AT-
vienna.bellnexxia.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20021105171858.42179.qmail-AT-
web13107.mail.yahoo.com> <12528500.1036500096-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu> <p05200f00b9ee42155c81-AT-
[158.252.213.150]>

To the thoughts of the news from Tripoli, a friend not on the list
suggested a commemoration of the death of Sultan Mustafa Khan II Ghazi,
who was the Ottoman Emperor.


Christine
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 08:06:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:52:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Christmas Ball, Dec 21, Urbana, IL
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211061552.gA6FqIE15038-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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                  The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
                                   Present An

                   E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
                          C H R I S T M A S   B A L L


   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their eighth
annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 21, 2002.  The dance will be held
at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus
of the University of Illinois.  There will be a warm up session from 7:00 to
8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some of
the evening's dances.  The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans and
finery are encouraged.  Bring fruit or a dessert to share.  There is a $7.00
suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball.  We ask that dancers
wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using
excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience
allergic reactions.  All dances will be taught and all lovers of English
country dance and music are welcome.

Dances Lead By: Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m.
Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002
Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL
Suggested Donation: $7.00

   There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a dessert
party following the dance.

   For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu) at
217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708.  You can check the Christmas
Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html

   Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the Champaign
Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium.


                    If we don't see you at the Ball,
                    Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:00:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:52:18 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Christmas Ball, Dec 21, Urbana, IL
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211061552.gA6FqIE15038-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

                  The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
                                   Present An

                   E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
                          C H R I S T M A S   B A L L


   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their eighth
annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 21, 2002.  The dance will be held
at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus
of the University of Illinois.  There will be a warm up session from 7:00 to
8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some of
the evening's dances.  The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans and
finery are encouraged.  Bring fruit or a dessert to share.  There is a $7.00
suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball.  We ask that dancers
wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using
excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience
allergic reactions.  All dances will be taught and all lovers of English
country dance and music are welcome.

Dances Lead By: Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m.
Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002
Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL
Suggested Donation: $7.00

   There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a dessert
party following the dance.

   For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu) at
217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708.  You can check the Christmas
Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html

   Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the Champaign
Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium.


                    If we don't see you at the Ball,
                    Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 15:42:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:42:15 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Tripoly
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <167.169047c0.2afb02d7-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 6/11/2002 2:59:33 pm, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

<< In this context, it might be worth observing the lag which occurred in 

another case between an event historical and a dance commemorating it: 

Ramellies (sic) Rout," published I believe by Walsh in 1718 (see Fried 

Herman's "Fringe Benefits" book for details), commemorates the allied 

victory under Marlborough over the French at Ramillies, Belgium in 1706. >>

Fried seems only to use dances from CCDM 1718, but it should be remembered 
that most, if not all, of its contents had appeared earlier in the annual 
24's.

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 18:40:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 21:40:43 -0500
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  CD*NY Special Events
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <26C9DBD5.1B0DD4D2.0078596C-AT-
aol.com>
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Two special events coming up in NYC:

Fried Herman -- Dancing with Style
Sunday, November 10th
1:30 - 5:00 p.m.
Hungarian House (NEW LOCATION!)
213 E. 82nd Street between 2nd & 3rd

A workshop for experienced dancers who know the basic figures;
Fried will teach a selection of old and new dances, including several from her newest collection, Serendipity


Yuletide Cotillion
Sunday, December 8th

Helene Cornelius, mistress of ceremonies
Members of Bare Necessities
(Earl Gaddis & Mary Lea, violins; Jacqueline Schwab, piano with guest artist Chris Rua, winds

3:00-7:00 p.m. (NEW TIME!)
Temple House Congregation Beth Elohim (NEW LOCATION!)
Park Slope, Brooklyn

Festive attire; Refreshment treats welcome!

Note the new location (same place where we hold our Playford Ball) and longer time (it always ended too soon).  There's plenty of room, so we hope to see many of you there!

For up-to-date information, check our web site www.cdny.org.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:35:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:35:15 -0800
From: Alan Ackerman <alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05200f00b9ef9cef6f42-AT-
[158.252.218.28]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20021105171858.42179.qmail-AT-
web13107.mail.yahoo.com> <12528500.1036500096-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu> <p05200f00b9ee42155c81-AT-
[158.252.213.150]> <20021106053950.GL1581-AT-
vienna.bellnexxia.net>

>To the thoughts of the news from Tripoli, a friend not on the list
>suggested a commemoration of the death of Sultan Mustafa Khan II Ghazi,
>who was the Ottoman Emperor.
>
>
>Christine

Change of emperor of the Ottoman Empire from Mustafa II (1695-1703) 
to Ahmed III (1703-1730)
(Oops, I forgot to save the URL for that one!)
If the tune was first published by  Playford in 1701 -- it was prescient!

Tripoli is in what is now (again) called Libya. Was that in the Ottoman Empire?

-- 
Alan Ackerman, alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:56:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Return-Path: <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 23:55:58 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <244640-22002114745558457-AT-
M2W030.mail2web.com>
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  The "Barbary States" were "tributaries" of the Sultan, and pretty much
ignored the Porte when it tried to make them do something they did not want
to. And remember that they in practice conducted their own foreign
relations (such as going to war with the US in 1806, bringing the Marines
to "the shores of Tripoli".


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Alan Ackerman alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 20:35:15 -0800
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli


>To the thoughts of the news from Tripoli, a friend not on the list
>suggested a commemoration of the death of Sultan Mustafa Khan II Ghazi,
>who was the Ottoman Emperor.
>
>
>Christine

Change of emperor of the Ottoman Empire from Mustafa II (1695-1703) 
to Ahmed III (1703-1730)
(Oops, I forgot to save the URL for that one!)
If the tune was first published by  Playford in 1701 -- it was prescient!

Tripoli is in what is now (again) called Libya. Was that in the Ottoman
Empire?

-- 
Alan Ackerman, alan.ackerman-AT-
earthlink.net


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:04:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:03:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0211071101100.102568-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
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On Wed, 6 Nov 2002, Alan Ackerman wrote:

> >To the thoughts of the news from Tripoli, a friend not on the list
> >suggested a commemoration of the death of Sultan Mustafa Khan II Ghazi,
> >who was the Ottoman Emperor.
> >
> >
> >Christine
>
> Change of emperor of the Ottoman Empire from Mustafa II (1695-1703)
> to Ahmed III (1703-1730)
> (Oops, I forgot to save the URL for that one!)
> If the tune was first published by  Playford in 1701 -- it was prescient!
>
> Tripoli is in what is now (again) called Libya. Was that in the Ottoman Empire?

Yes, according to mu 1911 Enc. Brit., but there's another Tripoli that
keeps showing up in tales about the crusades. that one is in what we now
call Syria or Lebanon.

I didn't find any reference to either Tripoli in the 1600s up to 1703 so
am still looking.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:47:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:47:46 +0000 (US/Eastern)
From: Christine <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E189poo-0004Yd-00-AT-
app1.nasc.inter.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Priscilla wrote:
> I didn't find any reference to either Tripoli in the 1600s up to 1703 so
> am still looking.

There are some interesting quotes in http://tripoli-city.org/ if you click 
on history, and go to the relevant section.  (I found choosing the 1700 
one put me mid-way through the page, just *after* the 1700 quote.)
This is for the Tripoli in Lebanon.

A second suggestion from off the list :
>> The other thought is that there was an expansion/extension of the
>> British treaty of peace and friendship with the Bey of Tripoli in
>> that year, but there were lots of those and that wasn't the first
>> such expansion, either, but all I'm doing is guessing.


Christine

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 09:13:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:16:31 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: .....Tripoli
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <005001c28681$6b3da360$456c550c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <E189poo-0004Yd-00-AT-
app1.nasc.inter.net>

Hi folks:

Perhaps there wasn't any news from Tripoli.

When I was a kid, it was common to refer to Timbuktu as being the epitome of
someplace far away, exotic, and unconnected to any of our daily lives. It
was pretty widespread in pop culture; I even remember a comic book where the
protagonists (Donald Duck & co., if I recall right) had to flee when their
shenanigans were uncovered; the last panel is headed, "Later, in
Timbuktu..." and shows them reclining under palm trees.

Probably around the same time (1950s) newspaper reporters had a derogatory
term for excessive interest in places that were far away and exotic, where
nothing of importance ever happened. That term, ironically for us in the
last 20 years, was "Afghanistanism", and a reporter who was interested in
the affairs of smaller nations was said to suffer from it.

Since we haven't found any significant news from either Tripoli in the
decades preceding our dance, it's at least possible that the phrase "News
from Tripoli" was being used ironically, in the same sense as the examples
cited above.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:43:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 21:44:50 -0800
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>
Subject: Looking for a ceilidh band in Oregon
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DCADED2.14095.121FAC93-AT-
localhost>
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I received this today. With Richard's permission I'm forwarding it to 
the list to see if anyone more local to him can help. He's been to 
ceilidhs in the UK before and enjoyed them, hence his request. Please 
email him directly if you can help.

Bob

------- Forwarded message follows -------
Date sent:      	Thu, 07 Nov 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject:        	Ceilidh
From:           	Richard Waters <rw-AT-
fhu.com>
To:             	<bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>

Hi Bob

I found your website and wondered if you could help.

I'm getting married and would like a Ceilidh at my wedding. I live in
southern oregon, do you know of any bands on this side of the 
country.

Regards

Richard Waters 

------- End of forwarded message -------------------------------------
----------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
bobarcher.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:31:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:31:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021108203118.34852.qmail-AT-
web13608.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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ANNOUNCING:

The 5th Annual New Haven, Connecticut ECD Ball
The 2003 "Elm City Assembly"
will take place 
January 25, 2003
with Mistress of Ceremonies Barbara Finney
Music by the Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron, Grace
Feldman, Margaret Ann Martin

More information and registration forms: http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:18:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 23:17:05 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: November 15 - English Country Dance - Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a0510033bb9f23b4cdace-AT-
[165.247.4.171]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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For any of you likely to be near Cape Cod, Massachusetts next weekend:

Please join us for elegant and lively English country dancing on 
Friday, November 15!  Here are the details:

*Cape Cod English Country Dance*

Friday, November 15, 2002
8 - 11 pm at the East Sandwich Grange,
                   85 Old County Road, E Sandwich, MA
Musicians: Roberta Sutter (piano)
                   Amy Larkin (violin)
Dance Leaders: Priscilla Adams and Linda Nelson
Admission: $6

Directions and more information: reply email or call:
508-428-4231  or  508-540-1151

More 3rd Friday English dances are already planned: February 21, 
March 21, May 16, June 20 and July 18, 2003.



NOTE for dance travelers:  Contradancing the next evening in the same hall:
3rd Saturday - November 16 - East Sandwich Contradance - East Sandwich Grange
Caller: Linda Leslie; Musicians: Amy Larkin and Roberta Sutter

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:56:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Dances in Greater Boston area 11/19 - 11/21?
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KONAWZ66IWA1G4XW-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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ECDers --

I will be, I found out yesterday, in the Framingham/Natick/Waltham area
November 19-21 (Tuesday - Thursday, traveling Monday and Friday.)  I'll be
staying at the Sheraton Tara, about which I've heard amazing things from people
who go to science fiction conventions there.  I'll have a car, however good an
idea that might be in the Boston area.  (But I'll fly into Manchester and
presumably avoid the worst of it.)

So what'll be happening around there in the English/Contra/Vintage line of
things on those evenings?  It's entirely possible that I'll turn out not to
have any evenings free, so I'm not going to try to get booked to call anything,
but I'd like to know what my options are.  

I ask here, rather than responsibly checking schedules on the web, because I'm
hoping to get some sense from a local of how brutal the travel is.

I'm under the impression, for example, that the bulk of Boston will be between
me and the Arlington dance,  and that if traffic there is anything like
San Francisco's, it might be a major slog.  If it'll take me two hours of
stop-n-go to get to the dance, I'm unlikely to be in a mood to enjoy it when I
get there.

Also, if people can provide useful directions for someone whose (limited) sense
of direction is always screwed up when on the East Coast, starting specifically
from the Tara or the nearest freeway/turnpike onramp, that would be very
helpful too.

Thanks,

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 17:01:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:01:22 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dances in Greater Boston area 11/19 - 11/21?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF9E51484F.3E228DFC-ON85256C6D.00044F94-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dances:
Too bad you will miss my 11/22 Friday night Double dance. I believe CDS
also has an English that night in Harvard Square. Both are geared toward
the newcomers to the scene but with lots that makes them interesting to
experienced dancers willing to share the floor with fresh blood.

I don't think there is anything on Tues 11/19 but:
Regular CDS ECD is on Wednesday in Arlington (CDS website has details)
Contradance on Thursday at the VFW in Cambridge (NEFFA site has details)
These are both "hot" dances with large attendance and usually very polished
bands and callers. Both are located to the west of the city so they are
much easier for you to access from the Natick/Framingham/Waltham area than
you thought.

Wednesday - If you approach by heading east from 95/128 on Rt. 2, take the
Park Ave. exit, go left on Park and the English dance is on your left no
more than a mile (up over the top of the hill called Arlington Heights) at
the corner of Revere St., one block shy of Mass. Ave. Roadside parking is
allowed.

Thursday - Same thing - Rt 2 east but continue past Arlington/Belmont
exits, past Alewife (outermost stop of the red line T), and keep following
Rt2 around Fresh Pond to the lights at Huron Ave. (this is a little
trafficy, but not creeping). Turn right onto Huron Ave (also called route
16), stay straight at the next light (16 turns off to the left) and keep
eyes open for a Rocket on the left that guards the door of the VFW hall.
Parking behind the hall, across the street, and along the roadsides. If you
go too far Huron ends at a T just around the corner.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:46:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:42:08 -0500
From: Ellen Tepper <etepper-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Harp stuff with ECD Content
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021111.114215.-344091.7.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To (Mainly) the listers and lurkers in New England

Ellen Tepper presents a Harp workshop, masterclass and slide
lecture/concert in Holyoke followed by an English Dance in Amherst Mass.

Saturday, November 16, 10 to 3 at Wisteriahurst Museum in Holyoke, Mass.
Workshop for beginners in the morning, master class in the afternoon.

Sunday, November 17, at 3 pm. Slide lecture on The History of the Harp
from 2500 BC to the present with musical examples on folk harp,
Renaissance Bray harp, Irish Wire strung harp and Italian Triple Strung
Harp.
500 years of music in one afternoon! Admission $5.00
contact Wisteriahurst Musem for directions: 413 534 2216

Monday, November 18, English Dance in Amherst, harp, recorders and
various other intruments, Robin Hayden calling. 413 549 4121 Amherst Area
English Country Dancers.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:02:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:33:01 -0500
From: RUSS BUSH <rbush1-AT-
attglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00c601c289a8$62a840a0$a6cd670c-AT-
ATT.COM>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20021108203118.34852.qmail-AT-
web13608.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear Barbara,
How accomplished an English Country dancer must one be to comfortably (for
oneself as well as for the more accomplished dancers) attend the Ball?
Thanks,
Russ Bush



----- Original Message -----
From: "Barbara Ruth" <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball


> ANNOUNCING:
>
> The 5th Annual New Haven, Connecticut ECD Ball
> The 2003 "Elm City Assembly"
> will take place
> January 25, 2003
> with Mistress of Ceremonies Barbara Finney
> Music by the Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron, Grace
> Feldman, Margaret Ann Martin
>
> More information and registration forms:
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html
>
> =====
> "There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of
one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe
from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> http://launch.yahoo.com/u2


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:57:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:57:25 -0800
From: "Ed St.Germain" <Patriot1-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
Subject: Programme for SoCal Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DCFFD94.E05F5C6C-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type=54455854; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <20021108203118.34852.qmail-AT-
web13608.mail.yahoo.com> <00c601c289a8$62a840a0$a6cd670c-AT-
ATT.COM>

For those interested, the programme has been announced for the 2nd
Annual Harvest Ball in Riverside, CA:

SET ONE
The Comical Fellow, 1776
The Female Saylor, 1706
Randolph Farewell, 1997
Dublin Bay, 1710
Draper’s Gardens, 1706

SET TWO
Miss Moore’s Rant (Colonial)
Greensleeves and Yellow Lace, 1721
Mr. Beveridge’s Maggot, 1695
The Black Nag, 1665
In the Bleak Midwinter, 1996
Soldier’s Joy (Colonial)

SET THREE
Sweet Richard (Colonial)
Prince William, 1713
Round about Our Coal Fire, 1766
Kelstern Gardens, 1727
The Duke of Kent’s Waltz, 1801

Further details may be found at: http://www.EnglishCountryDancing.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:21:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:20:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Axel-Lute <axellute-AT-
andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: seeking Neal book or out-of-print ECD books source
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0211140911430.12336-100000-AT-
andromeda.rutgers.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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Would anyone happen to have a copy of
A Choice collection of country dances : as printed and sold by John and
William Neal in Christ Church Yard, Dublin, c. 1726 / edited by Rich
Jackson and George Fogg  (CDSS,1990)
that you are willing to sell?
Or can anyone recommend a good source for out-of-print ECD
books?  (other than general services like abebooks.com, alibris,
bookfinder, with which I am familiar)


Paul Axel-Lute
Deputy Director & Collection Development Librarian
Rutgers University Library for the Center for Law & Justice
123 Washington St.
Newark NJ  07102-3094         axellute-AT-
andromeda.rutgers.edu
(973) 353-3151                http://www-rci.rutgers.edu/~axellute/
fax (973) 353-1356

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:25:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:25:39 +0000
From: Aidan Broadbridge <aidanbroadbridge-AT-
boltblue.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Broadbridge Junior
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001501c28bf2$17fd2dd0$351e78d5-AT-
aidan>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well hello to all of you out there, thought it was about time I came
along to see what my father has been saying about me!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:28:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:27:24 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Broadbridge Junior
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b9f9712b17b4-AT-
[140.186.61.70]>
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References: <001501c28bf2$17fd2dd0$351e78d5-AT-
aidan>

At 3:25 PM +0000 11/14/02, Aidan Broadbridge wrote:
>Well hello to all of you out there, thought it was about time I came
>along to see what my father has been saying about me!

Sorry, your dad is verrry circumspect.

But it sure will be fun to have you with us!
-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.vsu.cape.com/~elf
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:12:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021114161037.6049.qmail-AT-
web13609.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Russ,
Thanks for asking.  I'll respond on-line since others may be
interested.

The New Haven Ball is one of the more user-friendly balls in that
dances are both walked-through and called during the evening. That
said, dancers should be familiar and comfortable enough with all the
standard ECD figures that they can execute them when called without
further instruction, and generally be able to follow a dance pattern
without having to _regularly_ rely on others in the set to direct
them to their own position (of course there is no such thing as a
flawless dancer and we all lose the thread on occasion).

Hope that helps.
Barbara 

--- RUSS BUSH <rbush1-AT-
attglobal.net> wrote:
> Dear Barbara,
> How accomplished an English Country dancer must one be to
> comfortably (for
> oneself as well as for the more accomplished dancers) attend the
> Ball?
> Thanks,
> Russ Bush
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barbara Ruth" <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
> To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 3:31 PM
> Subject: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
> 
> 
> > ANNOUNCING:
> >
> > The 5th Annual New Haven, Connecticut ECD Ball
> > The 2003 "Elm City Assembly"
> > will take place
> > January 25, 2003
> > with Mistress of Ceremonies Barbara Finney
> > Music by the Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron,
> Grace
> > Feldman, Margaret Ann Martin
> >
> > More information and registration forms:
> http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html
> >
> > =====
> > "There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security.
> Less of
> one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are
> not safe
> from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
> > http://launch.yahoo.com/u2
> 
> 


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 20:12:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 22:41:06 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021114.230237.-298155.11.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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How well put!  Workshop program directors and Ball organizers could
probably use this definition in a variety of instances (I know I will,
assuming that by posting it on our forum you're releasing your copyright
and relinquishing the _massive_ income you might otherwise enjoy by
retaining all rights  :-)  )

Gene Murrow


On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) Barbara Ruth
<barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> writes:
...
> The New Haven Ball is one of the more user-friendly balls in that
> dances are both walked-through and called during the evening. That
> said, dancers should be familiar and comfortable enough with all 
> the standard ECD figures that they can execute them when called without
> further instruction, and generally be able to follow a dance 
> pattern without having to _regularly_ rely on others in the set to
direct
> them to their own position (of course there is no such thing as a
> flawless dancer and we all lose the thread on occasion).
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Barbara 
> 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:20:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:20:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021115152022.78633.qmail-AT-
web13608.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Well, put it this way.  You can always pay me a royalty on the
massive income you generate using it.  (Let's see, in 4th grade math
I learned that anything times 0 is?)

B.

--- Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> How well put!  Workshop program directors and Ball organizers could
> probably use this definition in a variety of instances (I know I
> will,
> assuming that by posting it on our forum you're releasing your
> copyright
> and relinquishing the _massive_ income you might otherwise enjoy by
> retaining all rights  :-)  )
> 
> Gene Murrow
> 
> 
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) Barbara Ruth
> <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> writes:
> ...
> > The New Haven Ball is one of the more user-friendly balls in that
> > dances are both walked-through and called during the evening.
> That
> > said, dancers should be familiar and comfortable enough with all 
> > the standard ECD figures that they can execute them when called
> without
> > further instruction, and generally be able to follow a dance 
> > pattern without having to _regularly_ rely on others in the set
> to
> direct
> > them to their own position (of course there is no such thing as a
> > flawless dancer and we all lose the thread on occasion).
> > 
> > Hope that helps.
> > Barbara 
> > 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address
> book
> ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
> destination


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 07:23:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 10:23:14 -0500
From: C <tootifluti-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAp3Li+jBW0yCp1x7jCa/aMKAAAAQAAAATRGJGWkh6UC5bptP9IkFnAEAAAAA-AT-
earthlink.net>
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Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)  --
Cara :)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Barbara Ruth
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 10:20 AM
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: 5th Annual New Haven ECD Ball


Well, put it this way.  You can always pay me a royalty on the massive
income you generate using it.  (Let's see, in 4th grade math I learned
that anything times 0 is?)

B.

--- Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> How well put!  Workshop program directors and Ball organizers could 
> probably use this definition in a variety of instances (I know I will,
> assuming that by posting it on our forum you're releasing your
> copyright
> and relinquishing the _massive_ income you might otherwise enjoy by
> retaining all rights  :-)  )
> 
> Gene Murrow
> 
> 
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) Barbara Ruth 
> <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> writes: ...
> > The New Haven Ball is one of the more user-friendly balls in that 
> > dances are both walked-through and called during the evening.
> That
> > said, dancers should be familiar and comfortable enough with all
> > the standard ECD figures that they can execute them when called
> without
> > further instruction, and generally be able to follow a dance
> > pattern without having to _regularly_ rely on others in the set
> to
> direct
> > them to their own position (of course there is no such thing as a 
> > flawless dancer and we all lose the thread on occasion).
> > 
> > Hope that helps.
> > Barbara
> > 
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> --
> Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
> ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
> destination


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of
one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not
safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:37:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:38:56 -0500
From: Blank/DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Zero is different from nothing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DD55B60.42C5416C-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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earthlink.net>


--Boundary_(ID_QxvhKNmIXtMATDkT90BYCQ)
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Dea Cara,

Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton?

You wrote:

> Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)  --
> Cara :)
>

Ciao,
Alberto

--Boundary_(ID_QxvhKNmIXtMATDkT90BYCQ)
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Dea Cara,
<p>Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton?
<p>You wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<pre>Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)&nbsp; --
Cara :)</pre>
</blockquote>

<p><br>Ciao,
<br>Alberto</html>

--Boundary_(ID_QxvhKNmIXtMATDkT90BYCQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:42:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:42:45 -0500
From: C <tootifluti-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Zero is different from nothing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAp3Li+jBW0yCp1x7jCa/aMKAAAAQAAAAFOLnYA6g/EubjWqtcUGtygEAAAAA-AT-
earthlink.net>
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I don't think so.  Who is he?  I was a Mathematics major and I just
remember from Abstract Algebra II I had to define "0" and "a" and "b"
and so on . . . the class got smaller as time went on.  Go figure!  ;-)
-- C
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Blank/DeVore
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:39 PM
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Zero is different from nothing


Dea Cara, 

Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton? 


You wrote: 


Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)  --

Cara :)


Ciao, 
Alberto 


--Boundary_(ID_tRQmfMmyS13o+kGCTQEyJQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I 
don't think so.&nbsp; Who is he?&nbsp; I was a Mathematics major and I just 
remember from Abstract Algebra II I had to define "0" and "a" and "b" and so on 
. . . the class got smaller as time went on.&nbsp;&nbsp;Go figure! &nbsp;;-) -- 
C</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of 
</B>Blank/DeVore<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2002 3:39 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Zero is different from 
nothing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Dea Cara, 
<P>Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton? 
<P>You wrote: 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><PRE>Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)&nbsp; --
Cara :)</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>Ciao, <BR>Alberto </P></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_tRQmfMmyS13o+kGCTQEyJQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:45:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 15:45:06 -0500
From: C <tootifluti-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Zero is different from nothing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAp3Li+jBW0yCp1x7jCa/aMKAAAAQAAAAYQ2sGembU0eWOBrxv93kXgEAAAAA-AT-
earthlink.net>
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Ooops!  I just caught what you meant!!  Now THAT'S funny. :)
 
 
 
 
I don't think so.  Who is he?  I was a Mathematics major and I just
remember from Abstract Algebra II I had to define "0" and "a" and "b"
and so on . . . the class got smaller as time went on.  Go figure!  ;-)
-- C
 
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Blank/DeVore
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 3:39 PM
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Zero is different from nothing


Dea Cara, 

Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton? 


You wrote: 


Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)  --

Cara :)


Ciao, 
Alberto 


--Boundary_(ID_VRauOsWHZPbgMw79jnzh+g)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2719.2200" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Ooops!&nbsp; I just caught what you meant!!&nbsp; Now THAT'S funny. 
:)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I 
don't think so.&nbsp; Who is he?&nbsp; I was a Mathematics major and I just 
remember from Abstract Algebra II I had to define "0" and "a" and "b" and so on 
. . . the class got smaller as time went on.&nbsp;&nbsp;Go figure! &nbsp;;-) -- 
C</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=093583920-15112002><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of 
</B>Blank/DeVore<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 15, 2002 3:39 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Zero is different from 
nothing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Dea Cara, 
<P>Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton? 
<P>You wrote: 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="CITE"><PRE>Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)&nbsp; --
Cara :)</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>Ciao, <BR>Alberto </P></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_VRauOsWHZPbgMw79jnzh+g)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:36:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:35:36 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Zero is different from nothing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFCBF17CBD.933B4A6C-ON85256C72.0076469F-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


There was a baseball player (I can't remember whom) speaking to reporters
once who said
"I got nothing to say to you and nothin' is nothin'! No, wait a minute!
Nothin' ain't nothin.
Nothin' is somethin' that ain't!"
CKaynor


                                                                                                                                 
                      Blank/DeVore                                                                                               
                      <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>        To:       ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                  
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                       
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Zero is different from nothing                                  
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 
                      15-Nov-2002 03:38 PM                                                                                       
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 




Dea Cara,


Are you lifting a page from W.J. Clinton?


You wrote:
      Mathematically speaking, it depends on what you define "0" as. ;)  --
      Cara :)



Ciao,
Alberto







================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 13:50:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:51:29 -0500
From: Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Zero is different from nothing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DD56C60.673EAB3C-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <OFCBF17CBD.933B4A6C-ON85256C72.0076469F-AT-
biogen.com>

Cammy quote in part:
" ... Nothin' is somethin' that ain't!"

Yeah! All I meant is that a zero batting average ain't the same as never
playing ball.

Al


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:47:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:47:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: (fwd from Nic Broadbridge) e-commerce
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KOWJRA9KK4A1WQIQ-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 16:41:35 -0800 (PST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Subject: e-commerce
To: system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
X-VMS-To: MX%"system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU"

From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
To: system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

At long last, the shop is up and running on my web site! The Assembly 
Players' two new Pat Shaw CDs can now be bought on line, thanks to Brian 
Prentice (my very long suffering and painstaking webmaster - and, quite by 
chance, The Assembly Players' brilliant pianist) and Paypal!
    Only the two new Cds are in the shop as yet, but the rest should follow 
very shortly!
    Do visit and have a look.
        <A HREF="http://">www.nicolasbroadbridge.com</A>

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:26:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:22:08 -0500
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 0
To: ecd-AT-
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juno.com>
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>>Cammy quote in part:
>>" ... Nothin' is somethin' that ain't!"

>Yeah! All I meant is that a zero batting average ain't the same as never
>playing ball.

>Al

Is that speaking literally?

Helen

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
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<BODY bottomMargin=0 leftMargin=3 topMargin=0 rightMargin=3>
<DIV>&gt;&gt;Cammy quote in part:<BR>&gt;&gt;" ... Nothin' is somethin' that 
ain't!"</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;Yeah! All I meant is that a zero batting average ain't the same as 
never<BR>&gt;playing ball.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&gt;Al</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Is that speaking literally?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Helen</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:44:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:45:30 -0500
From: Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 0
To: ECD-AT-
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catdancer-AT-
juno.com wrote:

>  >>Cammy quote in part:
> >>" ... Nothin' is somethin' that ain't!" >Yeah! All I meant is that a
> zero batting average ain't the same as never
> >playing ball. >Al Is that speaking literally? Helen

Gosh, no! Illiterally.

Al

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 12:07:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 14:07:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Christmas Ball, 12/21 in Urbana, IL
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211172007.gAHK78P14996-AT-
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                  The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
                                   Present An

                   E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
                          C H R I S T M A S   B A L L


   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their eighth
annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 21, 2002.  The dance will be held
at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus
of the University of Illinois.  There will be a warm up session from 7:00 to
8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some of
the evening's dances.  The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans and
finery are encouraged.  Bring fruit or a dessert to share.  There is a $7.00
suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball.  We ask that dancers
wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using
excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience
allergic reactions.  All dances will be taught and all lovers of English
country dance and music are welcome.

Dances Lead By: Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m.
Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002
Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL
Suggested Donation: $7.00

   There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a dessert
party following the dance.

   The evening's dances will be selected from the following list:

The Bishop - triple proper
Dargason - longways
The Duke of Kent's Waltz - duple proper
Female Saylor - duple proper
Finale - a quadrille
The Geud Man of Ballangigh - duple proper
A Grand March - longways
Heartsease - 2 couples
Jenny Pluck Pears - round for 3 couples
The Joy Of Dance - 3 couples longways
Lull Me Beyond Thee - 4 couples longways
Oranges and Lemons - 4 couples in a square
Portland Fancy - 4 facing 4
The Queen's Jig - duple proper
Trip To Woodstock - duple proper
Waltz Country Dance - Sicilian circle
Winter Solstice - 5 couples in a square

   For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu) at
217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708.  You can check the Christmas
Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html

   Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the Champaign
Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium.


                    If we don't see you at the Ball,
                    Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all!


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 05:53:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:59:09 -0500
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Tuesday's dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DD8F22D.8020005-AT-
earthlink.net>
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References: <20020430.130415.-805357.2.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

Hi, Gene. We just got back from calling at Don Bell's dance, and when we 
returned, my notes on our conversation seemed to make questionable sense 
to me. Here are the dances I *think* we agreed I'd call:
    Easter Thursday
    New Beginning
    Braes of Dornoch
    Collier's Daughter
    King of Poland

Is that right?
     Thanks -- and see you at Benny's tomorrow, a little after six.
Helen

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:13:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 10:19:19 -0500
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tuesday's dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DD904F7.4090808-AT-
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juno.com> <3DD8F22D.8020005-AT-
earthlink.net>

Oops! Sorry, list, for the private message filling up your mailboxes.
Helen White

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:15:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 18:12:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mr. Winston Regrets
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Dear ECDers:

Listmaster Alan says that he's discovered the hard way that his conference is
in Nashua, not in Framingham, so don't expect him to show up at any local
dances.  (He asked me to omit the curse words he used when initially conveying
this message.)

He's at the Sheraton Nashua if anyone's interested.

Yrs,
Vanessa
(Alan's roomie and amanuensis)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:15:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:30:56 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Brian Wedgbury
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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We have just been given the sad news of the death of Brian Wedgbury at
the weekend. While to Stateside dancers his name might be unfamiliar he
is known in Britain for several of his dances. His dance Trip to
Macclesfield was done at Pinewoods EW. Others of his dances are Flixton
House, Salute to Preston, and Nuns Echo (a square with the same figures
as Nonesuch).


Graham and Wendy Knight
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:22:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 12:22:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Graham Christian <bray1699-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Brian Wedgbury
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021120202240.32743.qmail-AT-
web13114.mail.yahoo.com>
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Graham and Wendy, 
Thank you for being the bearers of sad tidings. English country dance will be the poorer for Mr. Wedgbury's death.
  
 Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk> wrote:We have just been given the sad news of the death of Brian Wedgbury at
the weekend. While to Stateside dancers his name might be unfamiliar he
is known in Britain for several of his dances. His dance Trip to
Macclesfield was done at Pinewoods EW. Others of his dances are Flixton
House, Salute to Preston, and Nuns Echo (a square with the same figures
as Nonesuch).


Graham and Wendy Knight

Graham Christian
"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site

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<P>Graham and Wendy, 
<P>Thank you for being the bearers of sad tidings. English country dance&nbsp;will be the poorer for Mr. Wedgbury's death.
<P>&nbsp;&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp;<B><I>Graham Knight &lt;graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">We have just been given the sad news of the death of Brian Wedgbury at<BR>the weekend. While to Stateside dancers his name might be unfamiliar he<BR>is known in Britain for several of his dances. His dance Trip to<BR>Macclesfield was done at Pinewoods EW. Others of his dances are Flixton<BR>House, Salute to Preston, and Nuns Echo (a square with the same figures<BR>as Nonesuch).<BR><BR><BR>Graham and Wendy Knight</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Graham Christian<br>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/hosting/mailsig/*http://webhosting.yahoo.com">Yahoo! Web Hosting</a> - Let the expert host your site

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 00:32:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:33:08 +1100
From: Earthly Delights music & dance <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Any plans to dance to Carols this Christmas?
To: "Renaissance Dance Mailing List <RENDANCE-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>" <RENDANCE-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, Aus-Worldfolk <ausworldfolk-AT-
folkalliance.org.au>, "ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, "listings-AT-
canberraarts.com.au" <listings-AT-
canberraarts.com.au>
Message-ID: <BA0436F4.A3B6%garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
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Dear friends, 

Two important pieces of news for everyone wanting to sing, dance and be
merry this Christmas.

* The Christmas Carol Dance Book is looking fabulous and is already being
printed while I type!
Between beautiful full-colour covers are 76 A4 gloss pages of instructions
for 64 dances which John Garden has crafted to fit 63 favourite Christmas
songs from the last 600 years - together with full lyrics, chorded musical
notation, historical notes and illustrations.
It is a major achievement (the dances in their style, formation and figures
all echoing the carol's provenance, structure, lyrical story-line) - a boon
for any dance leader at Christmas time and a great present for anyone.
As it is a limited edition of 400 copies and as 100 have already been bought
in advance, please get in quickly for one of the remainders.
Price is just Aust. $20 (approx. $11 US or 8 U.K. pounds) plus flat postage
fee for any number of copies anywhere in the world of Aust. $10 (approx. $5
US)  Pay by credit card to garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au or via the web-site
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au or fax to +61 +2  6281 1098.
We'll post out by airmail in the last week of November.

 

* On Sunday 15 December the above book will be formally launched at The
Christmas Carol Ball,
 which John Garden, the band Earthly Delights, and guests will be presenting
at the grand Albert Hall in Canberra, Australia.
Anyone within reach of Canberra that weekend is very welcome - cost just
Aust. $25 (includes supper & refreshments).
A great night of country dancing is guaranteed. Inquiries phone (02)
62811098. 
More information about this Ball is at
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/upcoming.htm  (including press releases,
posters, dress ideas and supper ideas.)


Warmest Regards of the Season,

Aylwen Garden



 


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Any plans to dance to Carols this Christmas?</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFCC">
<FONT COLOR="#CC3333"><FONT FACE="Georgia"><B>Dear friends</B>, <BR>
<BR>
Two important pieces of news for everyone wanting to sing, dance and be merry this Christmas.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><UL><LI><FONT COLOR="#CC3333"><FONT FACE="Georgia">The <B>Christmas Carol Dance Book</B> is looking fabulous and is already being printed while I type! <BR>
</FONT></FONT></UL><FONT COLOR="#CC3333"><FONT FACE="Georgia">Between beautiful full-colour covers are 76 A4 gloss pages of instructions for 64 dances which John Garden has crafted to fit 63 favourite Christmas songs from the last 600 years - together with full lyrics, chorded musical notation, historical notes and illustrations. <BR>
It is a major achievement (the dances in their style, formation and figures all echoing the carol's provenance, structure, lyrical story-line) - a boon for any dance leader at Christmas time and a great present for anyone. <BR>
As it is a <B>limited edition</B> of 400 copies and as 100 have already been bought in advance, please get in quickly for one of the remainders. <BR>
Price is just Aust. $20 (approx. $11 US or 8 U.K. pounds) plus flat postage fee for any number of copies anywhere in the world of Aust. $10 (approx. $5 US) &nbsp;Pay by credit card to garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au or via the web-site http://www.earthlydelights.com.au or fax to +61 +2 &nbsp;6281 1098.<BR>
We'll post out by airmail in the last week of November.<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><UL><LI><FONT COLOR="#CC3333"><FONT FACE="Georgia">On <B>Sunday 15 December</B> the above book will be formally launched at <B>The Christmas Carol Ball</B>,<BR>
</FONT></FONT></UL><FONT COLOR="#CC3333"><FONT FACE="Georgia"> which John Garden, the band Earthly Delights, and guests will be presenting at the grand Albert Hall in Canberra, Australia. <BR>
Anyone within reach of Canberra that weekend is very welcome - cost just Aust. $25 (includes supper &amp; refreshments). <BR>
A great night of country dancing is guaranteed. Inquiries phone (02) 62811098. <BR>
More information about this Ball is at http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/upcoming.htm &nbsp;(including press releases, posters, dress ideas and supper ideas.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Warmest Regards of the Season,<BR>
<BR>
Aylwen Garden<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;<BR>
</FONT></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 13:47:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 16:46:43 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Brian Wedgbury
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <27.31ed2d04.2b0fffc3-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Probably Brian's best known dance is Dunham Oaks.

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 17:31:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:31:15 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <21071176-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I've been listening to a most enjoyable recording* I purchased recently and was
struck by one simple tune that seemed eminently danceable. The album is a mix of
tunes from The Dancing Master and other non-dance-related Playford publications,
but sure enough, this one is listed in the liner notes as Cockleshells, DM 10th
edition, 1698.

I couldn't recall having having danced this, so I went to Bob Keller's
database** and looked up the dance. (He shows Cockle-Shells first in the 11th
edition, 1701.)

As originally published, it's a triple minor. (The third couple's contribution
to the dance is to act as the posts around which the actives dance a figure-8
near the end of the dance.) Do people still dance it that way, or is it more
commonly done as a duple minor? For that matter, is it danced at all these days?

Thanks,

David Millstone

----
* Apollo's Banquet, 17th Century Music from the Publications of John Playford
(Harmonia Mundi 907186) 

David Douglass, violin
Paul O'Dette, theorbo
Andrew Lawrence-King, harps

**http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/Dance/Play4323.htm
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:20:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:26:17 -0500
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DDEE749.40402-AT-
earthlink.net>
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References: <21071176-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>

Sharon Green used to call it in NY/NJ (so it's probably springing up on 
the west coast now). I think it's usually Charles Bolton's duple minor 
version (Retreads, Vol. 8) that's danced around here. It's a simple but 
engaging dance, thanks largely to the lively tune.
Helen

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:48:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:47:39 -0500
From: Carl Friedman <carlfriedman-AT-
alumni.williams.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <EE7156DC-FE8D-11D6-9450-000393C225F4-AT-
alumni.williams.edu>
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On Friday, November 22, 2002, at 08:31  PM, David Millstone wrote:

> As originally published, it's a triple minor. (The third couple's 
> contribution
> to the dance is to act as the posts around which the actives dance a 
> figure-8
> near the end of the dance.) Do people still dance it that way, or is 
> it more
> commonly done as a duple minor? For that matter, is it danced at all 
> these days?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Millstone
>
>
We do it occasionally in Baltimore, and always as a duple minor. I 
consider it an ok dance with a terrific tune.

Carl Friedman

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:56:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 19:00:16 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20021122185746.00a63410-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <21071176-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>

At 09:26 PM 11/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Sharon Green used to call it (Cockleshells) in NY/NJ (so it's probably 
>springing up on the west coast now).

We've danced it in Seattle for some years before tSharon's arrival.  What 
made you think that we didn't already know it?

We do it as a duple minor.

Victoria in Seattle



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:07:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 22:00:16 -0600
From: "M.G. Mudrey, Jr." <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Seattle Dancing over Thanksgiving?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20021122215914.00b495e0-AT-
mail.mhtc.net>
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I will be visiting friends in the Seattle/Tacoma area over Thanksgiving.

Any ECD  next weekend?

Mike Mudrey


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:12:48 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:11:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECDancing in Montreal during Thanksgiving?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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While we're on the topic-- Anyone  know of English Country dancing in 
Montreal during the Thanksgiving weekend?

Cheer,
Deborah

--Boundary_(ID_7EFsqFfPDKmbPSLaXL4vgg)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">While we're on the topic-- Anyone&nbsp; know of English Country dancing in Montreal during the Thanksgiving weekend?<BR>
<BR>
Cheer,<BR>
Deborah</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_7EFsqFfPDKmbPSLaXL4vgg)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:12:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KP6IZHG13AA114IK-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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References: <21071176-AT-
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Helen wrote:

> Sharon Green used to call it in NY/NJ (so it's probably springing up on
> the west coast now). I think it's usually Charles Bolton's duple minor
> version (Retreads, Vol. 8) that's danced around here. It's a simple but
> engaging dance, thanks largely to the lively tune.

We've been doing it in the SF Bay Area for more than five years, in the duple
minor version where the figure of eight is down through the next twos. 
Sometimes I can't resist ranting on the figure of eight.

(James Langdell has pointed out the functional similarity of the tune to "If I
Had Maggie in the Wood".)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:39:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:39:10 -0800
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021122202726.01c62140-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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References: <21071176-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>

At 07:00 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Paul / Victoria Bestock wrote:
>At 09:26 PM 11/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>>Sharon Green used to call it (Cockleshells) in NY/NJ (so it's probably 
>>springing up on the west coast now).
>
>We've danced it in Seattle for some years before Sharon's arrival.  What 
>made you think that we didn't already know it?

I think Helen probably was making a joke about our bicoastal dancing 
habits.  But it's very true that some of the best dances I brought to North 
Jersey were ones I first encountered at West Coast balls.  And, to get back 
to David's original comment, the version of Cockleshells on the Apollo's 
Banquet CD is eminently danceable: groups lacking access to live music 
might want to buy the CD for this track alone.
Much love,
Sharon (cheerfully hauling good dances from coast to coast)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:55:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 21:59:46 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Seattle Dancing over Thanksgiving?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20021122215604.00a6c070-AT-
mail.oz.net>
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At 10:00 PM 11/22/2002 -0600, you wrote:

>Any ECD  next weekend?

Hi Mike,

Yes!  You are in luck.  There is a fifth Friday dance at the University 
Friends Center 8-10:30 on Nov. 29th

If you are around before and after the weekend, you can also come to the 
Tuesday dances, same location, 7:30-9:30.  Nov. 26 and Dec. 3

Victoria




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:27:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:31:16 -0500
From: Alisa Dodson <alisa-AT-
capercat.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03020900ba05313c7145-AT-
[63.27.86.11]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think Helen said "Cockleshells" is in Bolton's Retreads, Vol 8.  It's
actually in Vol 1.  I can shed some light on the SF Bay Area's recent
history with this dance.  The first I remember, Cynthia Stenger began
calling it when she moved to CA from MD uh, *way* over 5 years ago (she's
in the Portland area now).  I know I then put it in my repertoire and
called it in the area quite often (and still do, in other places.)  I think
it's a great and happy easy dance to a wonderful tune that Allen loves to
play.  I mention all this because I want to point out that dancers, callers
and musicians all over the country (actually, more than one country!) carry
dances and tunes (and songs, for that matter) from place to place.

Alisa


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 05:48:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:43:22 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Thanksgiving
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021123.084323.-360215.1.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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While we're on the subject of Thanksgiving, let me announce that the
Baltimore [Md., U.S.A.] Folk Music Society will hold it's annual
Burn-off-the-Calories Dance on Nov. 28th, our U.S. Thanksgiving.  It will
be an undetermined mix of contra and ECD as it's open mic, and also open
band.

Last year I stirred some controversy on the list because I mentioned that
everyone who attended would have to pay, including volunteer callers and
musicians, in order for the event to be solvent.  This year we won't ask
callers and musicians to contribute, as I don't think it will be
necessary.

The location is St. Mark's-on-the-Hill Church, Pikesville. This is 1/2
mile inside the Beltway (I-695), Exit 20 South. For info, me at (410)
889-3252 franch-AT-
juno.com.
 
Mike Franch

--Boundary_(ID_NCmTb5rC6EYPN2s20fIoAg)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4207.2601" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=0 leftMargin=3 topMargin=0 rightMargin=3>
<DIV>While we're on the subject of Thanksgiving, let me announce that the 
Baltimore&nbsp;[Md., U.S.A.]&nbsp;Folk Music Society will hold it's annual 
Burn-off-the-Calories Dance on Nov. 28th, our U.S. Thanksgiving.&nbsp; It will 
be an undetermined&nbsp;mix of contra and ECD as it's open mic, and also open 
band.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Last year I stirred some controversy on the list because I mentioned that 
everyone who attended would have to pay, including volunteer callers and 
musicians, in order for the event to be solvent.&nbsp; This year we won't ask 
callers and <FONT>musicians </FONT>to contribute, as I don't think it will be 
necessary.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>The location is St. Mark's-on-the-Hill Church, Pikesville. This is 1/2 mile 
inside the Beltway (I-695), Exit 20 South. <FONT size=3><FONT>For info, me at 
</FONT>(410) 889-3252 <A 
href="mailto:franch-AT-
juno.com">franch-AT-
juno.com</A>.</FONT><BR>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Mike Franch</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_NCmTb5rC6EYPN2s20fIoAg)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:19:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:19:23 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Cockleshells Redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <21082746-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>
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Thanks, all, for the information. For folks interested in obtaining the Apollo's
Banquet CD, it's apparently no longer in the Harmonia Mundi catalog. I recently
bought mine for $5.98 through Daedalus, which specializes in remainders (books,
mostly, but also lots of music):

http://www.daedalus-books.com/default.cfm?&CFID=209527&CFTOKEN=72880470

David 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:23:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:23:01 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: number of fliers to mail?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200211231723.gANHN1Q15482-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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   I'm working on publicity for a dance weekend next spring and was
wondering what the current net.wisdom was on how many fliers to send
to other dance groups to promote events like this.  There probably isn't
a perfect number that works for all situations, but how many do other
people send out?

   Thanks.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:04:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:03:57 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: number of fliers to mail?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <135.18039ffc.2b111d0d-AT-
aol.com>
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It depends on proximity.  If the group is in the same general area (i.e. 
reasonable driving distance) and people who dance there are likely to attend 
one of our special events, I send 20-30 -- sometimes more (particularly for 
the Fall/Spring calendars).  For CDNY, that would be groups in Westchester, 
Long Island, New Jersey.  For groups that are farther away -- Philly, New 
Haven, DC area, etc., I would send 10 maybe 20 for a Ball.  It's not very 
scientific.  It often depends on how many fliers I've printed up!   And these 
days, so many people go directly to our website -- it's cut down on the 
number of fliers we need to send.  But having a printed announcement at a 
dance is still a good idea.

Suzanne / CDNY
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:35:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 00:29:10 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Our Lady of the Highways?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021124.002911.-296085.1.franch-AT-
juno.com>
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On the New Jersey Turnpike yesterday (Sat. Nov. 23), Eileen and I saw a
Mazda MPV with NY vanity license plates that said "May Gad"[sic].

I wonder if this is a reference to "our" May.  Anyone know?

Mike Franch
Baltimore, Md. USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:35:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 02:35:48 -0800
From: "Ed St.Germain" <Patriot1-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
Subject: pix
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3DE0AB84.31E11B3A-AT-
AmericanRevolution.org>
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45 photos (5 pages of 9 photos each, to minimize download time) of last
nights Harvest Ball have been uploaded to EnglishCountryDancing.org

Best regards,
Ed


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 08:28:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:21:58 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: number of fliers to mail?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021124.112158.-11821.0.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I thought that Suzanne's response to Jonathan's inquiry about fliers was
on the mark: more fliers to closer places, fewer to further.  Generally,
the Baltimore Folk Music Society (BFMS) tries to get people to *take*
fliers to dances they attend.  These dances are within the geographic
range that people are likely to come to our dances and balls.  

While we put out the fliers that we're sent, I don't think that this is
particularly productive for the events being promoted, unless the event
is nearby.  Thus, a Washington dancer brought fliers for their wonderful
New Year's Eve ball.  Since this is an event that Baltimore dances go to,
I announced that the fliers were on the flier table, and people picked
them up.  Most dance fliers, for both English and contra, especially for
distant events, sit on the literature table until it is time (or past
time) to recycle them.

BFMS is experimenting this quarter-size fliers (about 4.25x5.5") for
general promotional purposes for our contra dances.  Our zydeco group has
been using this size for some time. They are very effective, easy to hand
out (these are the tracts of our dance religion after all), and don't
take up a lot of room on a literature table.  Comments from the Collected
Wisdom?

Mike Franch
Baltimore, Md. USA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 11:48:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:48:00 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: number of fliers to mail?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <155.17da636b.2b1286f0-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I would like to second Mike, that we also ask dancers to take fliers to 
dances they're attending -- particularly those in our general dance area.  We 
also have a "generic" CDNY flier with basic information on both ECD and 
American dances -- day, time, location, web address for current schedules, 
etc -- and that we're user-friendly, welcoming newcomers.  This can be 
downloaded from our web site as well -- as can our calendars, most fliers, 
ball registration forms, etc.

Suzanne
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:44:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:44:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Looking for Yuletide Cotillion ride
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021125174443.16577.qmail-AT-
web13606.mail.yahoo.com>
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If anyone is going from the CDNY Yuletide Cotillion on Sunday
December 8 to the New Haven area (or any suitable train stations in
between) I would be grateful for a ride.  I promise not to sing.
Barbara

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:02:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:01:41 -0500
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NYC Quadrille workshop - Sunday, December 8
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E18GNYD-00029A-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
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(Regular posting)


For the NYC-accessible and historically curious:

EAS Historical Dance Workshops
Sunday, December 8, 2002  1:00-4:00pm

My regular monthly dance workshop for December will be split between
Regency (intermediate group, always this era) and 1860's (beginner
group).  

The Regency section (1:00-2:00, Intermediate) will include the classic
foursome Scotch reel and the sauteuse and quick sauteuse waltzes.  
Open to anyone, but the dances require steps and the class moves more
quickly.  This is bouncy and mildly strenuous - more akin to modern
Scottish Country Dance than ECD.

The mid-19th century section (2:00-4:00, Basic) will learn and dance
all the figures of the Favourite French Quadrille in its mid-19th
century version.  (Compare and contrast with the Regency version we
did in June!)  We will have a few CDs of the music for this quadrille
by the noted dance band Spare Parts available for sale as well as
(free) handouts with the figure.

Cost is $15 in general; $10 if this is your first time at one of our
workshops.  CD is $6.00, first-come, first-serve.

PLEASE RSVP to: meredith-AT-
elegantarts.org - the number of people we
are expecting affects how I prepare for the class!

There are numerous Victorian balls this winter at which one may dance
these dances - see our calendar for events in the Northeastern USA at
http://www.elegantarts.org/vintageevents.html

Time (once again):
1:00-2:00pm - Intermediate (Regency reel and sauteuse)
2:00-4:00pm - Basic (mid-19thc quadrille)

Location:
Hop, Swing, and a Jump, 132 Crosby Street #2
for directions, see our webpage, http://www.elegantarts.org/classprac.html/

EAS offers monthly historical social dance classes of the 15th through
early 20th centuries - Renaissance, 17th century country dance,
Regency/Jane Austen/1810's, American Civil War/1860's, Belle
Epoque/1890's, and Ragtime/1910's.  Our 2003 workshop sequence will
exclusively feature dances of the early 19th century (Regency, Jane
Austen, Napoleonic Wars).  See our website for more information.
http://www.elegantarts.org

To receive these announcements directly, please email
info-AT-
elegantarts.org to be added to our mailing list.

Susan
(setting a record by posting this more than a week in advance!)





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 11:30:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 02:27:56 -0500
From: Terence Gaffney <gaff-AT-
research.neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pre-Thanksgiving party in Boston
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <6A96F137-0047-11D7-A9BA-000393B84248-AT-
research.neu.edu>
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Dear Friends,
if you're within driving distance of Boston, or if you're planning to 
travel to the Boston area for the holiday, consider yourself invited to 
our annual Pre-Thanksgiving party dance this Wednesday. This is the 
Boston Centre's homecoming dance, as friends in town for the weekend 
join us for the evening. Your presence makes the event special, all of 
us gathered together, making our friendship--usually invisible and 
stretched by miles, manifest.

The dance will be at the Park Avenue Church in Arlington. Directions to 
the Church cna be found at our web site at 
:http://www.cds-boston.org/english.html
Best,
  Terry

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:16:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:14:55 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: EngCountryDance <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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To our USA friends this may seem like madness - I wonder how interesting we
find it in the UK!  How sad it is all becoming!
Alan Corkett

>This from Hamish Birchall.
>Yesterday the government published the Licensing Bill which, if enacted,
>would criminalise the provision of most live music in England and Wales,
>unless first licensed.
>
>As predicted, broadcast entertainment on satellite or terrestrial tv is
exempt.
>The proposals represent the most significant increase in live music
licensing
>for over 100 years. According to Culture Minister Kim Howells, this is
necessary because 'one musician with modern amplification can make more
noise than three without'. But since most noise complaints are nothing to do
with music (acoustic or amplified), and even one unamplified performer would
become illegal unless licensed, this rationale doesn't quite hang together.


>Anyway here is the link to the Bill:
>http://www.parliament.the-stationery-
>office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldbills/001/03001.107-111.html#J1s1
>>Schedule 1, 'Provision of Regulated Entertainment', lists and defines what
>constitutes licensable live music and much more besides. Temporary
permissions
>are covered in Part 5.
>
>Premises licences, which include the option for licensable entertainments,
are dealt with in Part 3.
>
>No fees have been published yet, but guidance notes available on the DCMS
>website repeat the estimates contained in the licensing White Paper of
April 2000.
>
>Neither the extensive media coverage or Parliamentary support for reform
has
>influenced the small clique of senior civil servants and Ministers
responsible for this legislation.
>
>Both the Musicians' Union and the Arts Council argued forcibly against the
huge
>increase in licensing control, and jointly submitted amendments to the
Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) in the recent consultation on
the draft legislation. But the DCMS rejected them. In that respect lobbying
has failed.
>
>It may yet succeed, however, if sympathetic Lords support these amendments
(the
>Bill is going first to the House of Lords). All my efforts, those of the
Arts Council working party, and those of supporting organisations, will now
be focussed on this.
>
>In practical terms, this is what the Licensing Bill proposes for live
music: Pubs, bars, restaurants etc 110,000 licensed premises lose their
automatic right to host one or two
>live musicians.
>A form of this licensing exemption can be traced back to 1899.
>
>Regular performance by even one musician, professional or amateur,
amplified or
>unamplified, to be illegal without licensing permission.
>
>Permission requires approval by police, fire service, environmental health
dept, and local residents.
>
>Local authority grants authorisation as part of 'premises licence' and may
impose 'necessary' conditions (for public safety, crime and disorder,
prevention of nuisance, and protection of children from harm).
>
>If granted, the permission lasts for lifetime of business but may be
revoked if
>noise/crime and disorder problems.
>
>Licence fees to be standardised (at lower levels than now) and set
centrally by
>Secretary of State.
>
>Fee to be no different if licensable entertainment provided.
>
>If live music not authorised, live music to be illegal (save spontaneous
>renditions of Happy Birthday etc)
>
>Licence terms may be varied later if live music not chosen at outset.
>
>Variation process essentially the same as initial application (see >above).
A
>fee will be chargeable.
>
>Where live music not allowed under terms of premises licence, there is an
>option for up to 5 temporary permissions in a year, granted by a simple
>notification process (for a fee) provided under 500 people attend.
>
>Private functions
>The distinction between public and private events is blurred. Until now
most
>private gigs have been exempt from public entertainment licensing. Most
gigs on
>public land have been exempt. This would no longer be the case. Many, if
not
>most, performances in this context would become illegal unless licensed,
either
>via the premises licence, a club premises certificate, or a temporary event
notice.
>
>The wording of the Bill suggests that if a musician is hired to perform at
a private event, this alone is sufficient to trigger the licensing
requirement (this was hinted at in letters from Howells to MPs: 'it is clear
that if a performer is paid, then the performance is public'.)
>
>Any hitherto private performance 'with a view to raising money for charity'
to become illegal unless licensed.
>
>Live music in private clubs no longer exempt.
>
>Churches
>All public concerts in churches to become illegal unless licensed.
>
>This provision extends legislation that currently applies only in London to
the rest of England and Wales. This is very strange, because the London
legislation dates from 1963, while the outside London legislation dates from
1982.
>
>Music 'for the purposes of, or for purposes incidental to a religious
meeting or service' is exempt.
>
>New concept of 'entertainment facilities' as licensing criterion.
>This is another strange provision. It seems that providing 'facilities for
enabling persons to take part in entertainment', such as making music and/or
dancing, is now to be illegal unless licensed.
>
>It is a confusing part of the Bill, but my reading of this is that
recording studios, rehearsal studios, or practice rooms may be caught. It
might also include musical instruments, record decks, microphones,
amplifiers, PAs etc etc. I am seeking clarification from licensing lawyers
on this one.
>
>Bandwagons exempt!
>Curiouser and curiouser: live music performed in, or presumably on, moving
>vehicles is exempt!
>
>Recorded music - limited exemption
>Recorded music is legal without being licensed 'to the extent that it is
incidental to some other activity which is not itself - (a) a description of
entertainment falling within paragraph 2, or (b) the provision of
entertainment facilities'.
>
>In other words, I think pub jukeboxes would be exempt, provided they
weren't next to a dance floor (but how do you define a dance floor???)
>
>If you can find time to read the legislation, particularly Schedule 1, I
would be very grateful for your comments.
>
>Any musician lawyers out there: your input could be particularly valuable.
>--
>Southern Counties Folk Federation, SCoFF.
>http://web.onetel.net.uk/~trevorgilson/SCoFF
>Please reply with 'SCoFF remove' if you wish
>not to receive further mailings.
>Anyone may join the list (national or local interest) -
>please write to scoff_webmaster-AT-
yahoo.co.uk with subject
>'SCoFF add' and as much detail as you feel like revealing.
>Trevor Gilson, SCoFF Webmaster.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:54:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:18:11 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cockleshells?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021125.102745.-256897.14.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
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On Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:39:10 -0800 Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> At 07:00 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Paul / Victoria Bestock wrote:
> >At 09:26 PM 11/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >>Sharon Green used to call it (Cockleshells) in NY/NJ (so it's 
> probably 
> >>springing up on the west coast now).
> >
> >We've danced it in Seattle for some years before Sharon's arrival.  

It's called in Baltimore on a regularly irregular basis and done as a
duple minor. I think it's a very nice dance, and because it's fairly easy
it's a good dance to do early in the evening.

Dawn Culbertson

________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:08:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:07:04 -0600
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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taproots.org>
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Dear Alan:

Is the United Kingdom going the way of the Taliban? Will the U.S. have to
send the Marines to liberate London? Will music be supressed in the name of
decency and morality? Have Cromwell's successors finally achieved Total
Victory over licenciousness? And what about free speech? Is not music, a
song, a form of speech? How can you have "We shall overcome," sung in a
country which penalizes singing? Is this a return to the kind of censorship
which produced many of the political nursery rhymes which we all (Brits and
folks of English descent elsewhere) learned, or used to learn?

Maybe ridicule is what is needed, big time. Maybe you should look into the
backgrounds, religious and otherwise, of these fine idiots. Make these
people squirm, and name names.

Good luck.
Shooz

Columbia, MO


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:09:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 16:09:43 -0500
From: eba-AT-
umich.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <23467984.1038240583-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu>
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Look for the power and interests of money behind it somewhere -- perhaps 
the very broadcast entertainment/satellite/terrestrial tv industries which 
are exempt?  It obviously doesn't have anything to do with noise at all.

Of course, over here we choose to have our madness other ways it seems that 
most people wouldn't choose to have a war to discover that it's not a good 
thing...

Eric (from the left bank of the pond)

--On Monday, November 25, 2002 8:14 PM +0000 Alan Corkett 
<alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> To our USA friends this may seem like madness - I wonder how interesting
> we find it in the UK!  How sad it is all becoming!
> Alan Corkett
>
> > This from Hamish Birchall.
> > Yesterday the government published the Licensing Bill which, if enacted,
> > would criminalise the provision of most live music in England and Wales,
> > unless first licensed.
> >
> > As predicted, broadcast entertainment on satellite or terrestrial tv is
> exempt.
> > The proposals represent the most significant increase in live music
> licensing
> > for over 100 years. According to Culture Minister Kim Howells, this is
> necessary because 'one musician with modern amplification can make more
> noise than three without'. But since most noise complaints are nothing to
> do with music (acoustic or amplified), and even one unamplified performer
> would become illegal unless licensed, this rationale doesn't quite hang
> together.
>
>
> > Anyway here is the link to the Bill:
> > http://www.parliament.the-stationery-
> > office.co.uk/pa/ld200203/ldbills/001/03001.107-111.html#J1s1
> >> Schedule 1, 'Provision of Regulated Entertainment', lists and defines
> >> what
> > constitutes licensable live music and much more besides. Temporary
> permissions
> > are covered in Part 5.
> >
> > Premises licences, which include the option for licensable
> > entertainments,
> are dealt with in Part 3.
> >
> > No fees have been published yet, but guidance notes available on the
> > DCMS website repeat the estimates contained in the licensing White
> > Paper of
> April 2000.
> >
> > Neither the extensive media coverage or Parliamentary support for reform
> has
> > influenced the small clique of senior civil servants and Ministers
> responsible for this legislation.
> >
> > Both the Musicians' Union and the Arts Council argued forcibly against
> > the
> huge
> > increase in licensing control, and jointly submitted amendments to the
> Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) in the recent consultation
> on the draft legislation. But the DCMS rejected them. In that respect
> lobbying has failed.
> >
> > It may yet succeed, however, if sympathetic Lords support these
> > amendments
> (the
> > Bill is going first to the House of Lords). All my efforts, those of the
> Arts Council working party, and those of supporting organisations, will
> now be focussed on this.
> >
> > In practical terms, this is what the Licensing Bill proposes for live
> music: Pubs, bars, restaurants etc 110,000 licensed premises lose their
> automatic right to host one or two
> > live musicians.
> > A form of this licensing exemption can be traced back to 1899.
> >
> > Regular performance by even one musician, professional or amateur,
> amplified or
> > unamplified, to be illegal without licensing permission.
> >
> > Permission requires approval by police, fire service, environmental
> > health
> dept, and local residents.
> >
> > Local authority grants authorisation as part of 'premises licence' and
> > may
> impose 'necessary' conditions (for public safety, crime and disorder,
> prevention of nuisance, and protection of children from harm).
> >
> > If granted, the permission lasts for lifetime of business but may be
> revoked if
> > noise/crime and disorder problems.
> >
> > Licence fees to be standardised (at lower levels than now) and set
> centrally by
> > Secretary of State.
> >
> > Fee to be no different if licensable entertainment provided.
> >
> > If live music not authorised, live music to be illegal (save spontaneous
> > renditions of Happy Birthday etc)
> >
> > Licence terms may be varied later if live music not chosen at outset.
> >
> > Variation process essentially the same as initial application (see
> > >above).
> A
> > fee will be chargeable.
> >
> > Where live music not allowed under terms of premises licence, there is
> > an option for up to 5 temporary permissions in a year, granted by a
> > simple notification process (for a fee) provided under 500 people
> > attend.
> >
> > Private functions
> > The distinction between public and private events is blurred. Until now
> most
> > private gigs have been exempt from public entertainment licensing. Most
> gigs on
> > public land have been exempt. This would no longer be the case. Many, if
> not
> > most, performances in this context would become illegal unless licensed,
> either
> > via the premises licence, a club premises certificate, or a temporary
> > event
> notice.
> >
> > The wording of the Bill suggests that if a musician is hired to perform
> > at
> a private event, this alone is sufficient to trigger the licensing
> requirement (this was hinted at in letters from Howells to MPs: 'it is
> clear that if a performer is paid, then the performance is public'.)
> >
> > Any hitherto private performance 'with a view to raising money for
> > charity'
> to become illegal unless licensed.
> >
> > Live music in private clubs no longer exempt.
> >
> > Churches
> > All public concerts in churches to become illegal unless licensed.
> >
> > This provision extends legislation that currently applies only in
> > London to
> the rest of England and Wales. This is very strange, because the London
> legislation dates from 1963, while the outside London legislation dates
> from 1982.
> >
> > Music 'for the purposes of, or for purposes incidental to a religious
> meeting or service' is exempt.
> >
> > New concept of 'entertainment facilities' as licensing criterion.
> > This is another strange provision. It seems that providing 'facilities
> > for
> enabling persons to take part in entertainment', such as making music
> and/or dancing, is now to be illegal unless licensed.
> >
> > It is a confusing part of the Bill, but my reading of this is that
> recording studios, rehearsal studios, or practice rooms may be caught. It
> might also include musical instruments, record decks, microphones,
> amplifiers, PAs etc etc. I am seeking clarification from licensing lawyers
> on this one.
> >
> > Bandwagons exempt!
> > Curiouser and curiouser: live music performed in, or presumably on,
> > moving vehicles is exempt!
> >
> > Recorded music - limited exemption
> > Recorded music is legal without being licensed 'to the extent that it is
> incidental to some other activity which is not itself - (a) a description
> of entertainment falling within paragraph 2, or (b) the provision of
> entertainment facilities'.
> >
> > In other words, I think pub jukeboxes would be exempt, provided they
> weren't next to a dance floor (but how do you define a dance floor???)
> >
> > If you can find time to read the legislation, particularly Schedule 1, I
> would be very grateful for your comments.
> >
> > Any musician lawyers out there: your input could be particularly
> > valuable. --
> > Southern Counties Folk Federation, SCoFF.
> > http://web.onetel.net.uk/~trevorgilson/SCoFF
> > Please reply with 'SCoFF remove' if you wish
> > not to receive further mailings.
> > Anyone may join the list (national or local interest) -
> > please write to scoff_webmaster-AT-
yahoo.co.uk with subject
> > 'SCoFF add' and as much detail as you feel like revealing.
> > Trevor Gilson, SCoFF Webmaster.
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:20:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:18:56 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I know there was an uproar not so long ago when this was mentioned in
Parliament, during the "Only Two in a Bar" debate, when the Minister for
Culture made a comment about three folksingers from Somerset (where I
currently live) being, "My idea of Hell!". This caused a massive outcry at
the time. However, they now seem to have opted for not two people singing,
as the limit was, but nobody singing, unless you have a licence, else it is
illegal!
Thanks for your suggestion on background study.
Regards Alan Corkett

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:21:13 PST
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:21:06 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sbcglobal.net>
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I'm not seeing anything in the language of the Act that gives me much
guidance on how hard these licenses would be to get.  The fellow who wrote
the article that was forwarded mentions a lot of stuff about having to get
permission from the fire department, police, environmental authorities, and
so forth; I'm not seeing where he gets this.  I'm not saying he's wrong,
either, just that I don't see any evidence of it in the law itself, which
is hardly surprising: laws typically leave the implementation details to
the departments that administer them.  If getting a license is going to be
a horrible and expensive process, this really is disastrous; if it's just
something like filling out a form and sending it in with a check for a few
pounds, it's probably not so bad, though even then it opens the door for
getting worse in the future.  I'd be very curious to read an impartial
analysis of exactly what it's going to take to get one of these licenses. 

In case anyone wondered, this almost certainly wouldn't fly in the U.S.,
because our First Amendment would probably prohibit a blanket licensing
requirement on an entire category of expression, which playing music
certainly is.  Does the UK have any sort of constitutional guarantee that
corresponds to the First Amendment?  I realize that our Bill of Rights was
written in response to fears of the U.S. federal government becoming as
repressive as the British crown, but I'd assumed that things had changed
over there in the last couple of hundred years.  Perhaps I assumed too
soon.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
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Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
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cmQgdHVuZXMuDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgcHJvYmFibHkgbW9yZSB0aGFuIGFueW9uZSB3
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eSBQcmVzcw0K
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:29:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:30:06 +1100
From: Earthly Delights music & dance <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Secure Payment Methods for Christmas Carol Dance Book
To: "Renaissance Dance Mailing List <RENDANCE-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>" <RENDANCE-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, "ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, "english_bagpipes-AT-
yahoogroups.com" <english_bagpipes-AT-
yahoogroups.com>, "hg-AT-
hurdygurdy.com" <hg-AT-
hurdygurdy.com>, "sca-dance-AT-
andrew.cmu.edu" <sca-dance-AT-
andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <BA08EF9E.AF6E%garden-AT-
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
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Dear friends,
For those of you who read our previous message about the new release of ³The
Christmas Carol Dance Book², we apologise for not putting our fax number in
the message for those wanting a very secure way of making credit card
payments. We do accept international money orders, but for those wanting to
order the book and receive it before Christmas, please use our fax/phone
line +61 +2 +62811098.
Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden

The message should instead read as:

The Christmas Carol Dance Book http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/xmas.htm is
looking fabulous and is already being printed while I type!
Between beautiful full-colour covers are 76 A4 gloss pages of instructions
for 64 dances which John Garden has crafted to fit 63 favourite Christmas
songs from the last 600 years - together with full lyrics, chorded musical
notation, historical notes and illustrations.
It is a major achievement (the dances in their style, formation and figures
all echoing the carol's provenance, structure, lyrical story-line) - a boon
for any dance leader at Christmas time and a great present for anyone. Hurdy
Gurdy and Bagpipe players will also find the music sits well on their
instruments.
As it is a limited edition of 400 copies and as 150 have already been bought
in advance, please get in quickly for one of the remainders.
Price is just Aust. $20 (approx. $11 US or 8 U.K. pounds) plus flat postage
fee for any number of copies anywhere in the world of Aust. $10 (approx. $5
US)  Pay via the web-site http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/orders.htm or
fax/phone to +61 +2  6281 1098. We also accept international money orders
sent to 87 Schlich Street, Yarralumla ACT 2600 Australia. We'll post out by
airmail in the first week of December.



--Boundary_(ID_svJRm0NAmCBsce0cpPa9wA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Secure Payment Methods for Christmas Carol Dance Book</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFCC">
<FONT FACE="Georgia">Dear friends,<BR>
For those of you who read our previous message about the new release of &#8220;The Christmas Carol Dance Book&#8221;, we apologise for not putting our fax number in the message for those wanting a very secure way of making credit card payments. We do accept international money orders, but for those wanting to order the book and receive it before Christmas, please use our fax/phone line +61 +2 +62811098.<BR>
Warmest Regards, Aylwen Garden<BR>
<BR>
The message should instead read as:<BR>
<BR>
The Christmas Carol Dance Book <I>http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/xmas.htm </I>is looking fabulous and is already being printed while I type! <BR>
Between beautiful full-colour covers are 76 A4 gloss pages of instructions for 64 dances which John Garden has crafted to fit 63 favourite Christmas songs from the last 600 years - together with full lyrics, chorded musical notation, historical notes and illustrations. <BR>
It is a major achievement (the dances in their style, formation and figures all echoing the carol's provenance, structure, lyrical story-line) - a boon for any dance leader at Christmas time and a great present for anyone. Hurdy Gurdy and Bagpipe players will also find the music sits well on their instruments.<BR>
As it is a limited edition of 400 copies and as 150 have already been bought in advance, please get in quickly for one of the remainders. <BR>
Price is just Aust. $20 (approx. $11 US or 8 U.K. pounds) plus flat postage fee for any number of copies anywhere in the world of Aust. $10 (approx. $5 US) &nbsp;Pay via the web-site <FONT COLOR="#0000FF"><U>http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/orders.htm</U></FONT> or fax/phone to +61 +2 &nbsp;6281 1098. We also accept international money orders sent to 87 Schlich Street, Yarralumla ACT 2600 Australia. We'll post out by airmail in the first week of December.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--Boundary_(ID_svJRm0NAmCBsce0cpPa9wA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 15:49:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 23:51:44 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201c294dd$9c180ba0$0200a8c0-AT-
ntworld.com>
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The position is much worse than it appears!!  The bill covers most forms
of entertainment, including dancing.  The folk dance club I attend meets
in a school hall, as do many others.  In future this will be impossible
unless the school applies for a license (which is likely to be a 4-fig £
* 1.5 for $ sum).

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Berger
Sent: 25 November 2002 22:21
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]

I'm not seeing anything in the language of the Act that gives me much
guidance on how hard these licenses would be to get.  The fellow who
wrote
the article that was forwarded mentions a lot of stuff about having to
get
permission from the fire department, police, environmental authorities,
and
so forth; I'm not seeing where he gets this.  I'm not saying he's wrong,
either, just that I don't see any evidence of it in the law itself,
which
is hardly surprising: laws typically leave the implementation details to
the departments that administer them.  If getting a license is going to
be
a horrible and expensive process, this really is disastrous; if it's
just
something like filling out a form and sending it in with a check for a
few
pounds, it's probably not so bad, though even then it opens the door for
getting worse in the future.  I'd be very curious to read an impartial
analysis of exactly what it's going to take to get one of these
licenses. 

In case anyone wondered, this almost certainly wouldn't fly in the U.S.,
because our First Amendment would probably prohibit a blanket licensing
requirement on an entire category of expression, which playing music
certainly is.  Does the UK have any sort of constitutional guarantee
that
corresponds to the First Amendment?  I realize that our Bill of Rights
was
written in response to fears of the U.S. federal government becoming as
repressive as the British crown, but I'd assumed that things had changed
over there in the last couple of hundred years.  Perhaps I assumed too
soon.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:14:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:13:52 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DE2CAD0.9063AD51-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000201c294dd$9c180ba0$0200a8c0-AT-
ntworld.com>

Michael Barraclough wrote:
> 
> The position is much worse than it appears!!  The bill covers most forms
> of entertainment, including dancing.  The folk dance club I attend meets
> in a school hall, as do many others.  In future this will be impossible
> unless the school applies for a license (which is likely to be a 4-fig £
> * 1.5 for $ sum).

Is that actually true?  I don't mean the price for the license, which I
grant you is very high.  I'm curious about where the number came from --
I'm not saying it's wrong, I really have no idea, but I'm wondering if this
figure comes from the sponsors of the legislation, its opponents, or some
neutral party.

But my question is, would a folk dance club's activities be "regulated
entertainment" as contemplated by the law?  The definition of
"entertainment" does indeed include "a performance of dance," but it has to
take place in the presence of an audience and be done for the purpose
(possibly among other purposes) of entertaining that audience in order to
fall under the definition of "entertainment."  If people get together to
dance for their own amusement, then they're not doing it for the purpose of
entertaining anyone, and therefore it's not "entertainment," and therefore
it can't be "regulated entertainment," and therefore it doesn't require a
license.  Or so I'd argue if it were my case.

Of course, dancing is done to music.  It's an interesting question whether
dance musicians who are playing for dancers, but not for anyone who's
watching the dancers, are playing "for the purpose of entertaining an
audience."  The law doesn't contain a definition of "audience,"
unfortunately, beyond somewhat unnecessarily clarifying that "spectators"
always equals "audience."  As a dance musician myself, I do tend to think
of the dancers as my audience, but I'm wondering what a court would say
about that.  I'd guess they'd interpret the entire group, musicians plus
dancers, as doing "a performance of dance," but not for an audience, since
it makes very little sense to consider a performance of dance that doesn't
include music.  If that's right, then I think your club meetings wouldn't
require a license.

I think there's very little doubt that if this law is passed, it will mean
full employment for lawyers for years and years, as little subtle points
like this are fought out in court.  I personally think that's a GOOD thing,
but of course not everyone will agree.  :)

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:28:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:29:09 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021125.202947.-1545217.10.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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What happens to the wrong-doers--the band of 2+ people or the morris
side? Does an Informant turn them in? Who would pay any applicable fines?
 Who would serve the jail time--the musicians or the pub owner?  And,
beyond those petty details, aren't the government concerned about the
negative image of the Keystone Kops complete with clubs breaking up a
band of innocent pub musicians? Stomping a precious violin to slivers?
Busting a fist through a bodhran? Laughing in the angelic face of Mary
Pickford and ripping up her music?  Cecil, Cecil....where are you now?

Alllison Thompson

P.S. Sharp did teach music one year to the children of the then Princess
of Wales.....the present Queen's great-grandmother, if I'm not mistaken.
Perhaps a personal application....? 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:28:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:29:09 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20021125.202947.-1545217.10.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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What happens to the wrong-doers--the band of 2+ people or the morris
side? Does an Informant turn them in? Who would pay any applicable fines?
 Who would serve the jail time--the musicians or the pub owner?  And,
beyond those petty details, aren't the government concerned about the
negative image of the Keystone Kops complete with clubs breaking up a
band of innocent pub musicians? Stomping a precious violin to slivers?
Busting a fist through a bodhran? Laughing in the angelic face of Mary
Pickford and ripping up her music?  Cecil, Cecil....where are you now?

Alllison Thompson

P.S. Sharp did teach music one year to the children of the then Princess
of Wales.....the present Queen's great-grandmother, if I'm not mistaken.
Perhaps a personal application....? 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:37:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:38:12 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF951D6228.85DD9F9E-ON85256C7D.0008176B-AT-
biogen.com>
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Music is one of the ways I express myself, whether anyone wants to listen
to it (i.e., audience) or not. As someone else mentioned, in the USA, a
case has been made that the right to play music is largely considered a
right of freedom of expression. Even so, they will boot you off the streets
of Cambridge Massachusetts if you try to play a fiddle tune without a
license whether anyone is listening or not and whether you are collecting
contributions or not.

It's a crazy world when I find myself wondering if there is coming a day
when one has to pay a fee to write a poem, to recite it, to paint a picture
and show it to the world, dance a jig - even a 9 day wonder, play tunes for
the school children as they file in in the morning,...

CKaynor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:41:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:41:25 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DE2D145.82032D2F-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <01DDA2AC.6752A85D.0078596C-AT-
aol.com>

SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> 
> What are they licensing -- the music itself or the sound of the music (<<because 'one musician with modern amplification can make more noise than three without'. . >>) In other words, who would be getting the money?  The people who made the music?  Or the government. 

Almost certainly the government.  Although this proposed law is somewhat
reminiscent of the ASCAP/BMI venue-licensing scheme we have in the US, it's
really entirely different.  The proposal is that venues be required to have
a license in order to present entertainment, exactly as they currently (I
presume) have to have a license in order to serve liquor.  In the case of
the liquor license, the money goes to the licensing authority and
eventually into the coffers of the government, not to the people who make
the liquor.  I'm pretty sure the same would be true in the case of the
entertainment license -- or at any rate, that's my understanding from
reading the proposed law.  I haven't followed any of the debate in the UK
media, which might have different information.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 17:45:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 20:44:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0211252042360.24913-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Jon Berger wrote:

> certainly is.  Does the UK have any sort of constitutional guarantee that
> corresponds to the First Amendment?  I realize that our Bill of Rights was
> written in response to fears of the U.S. federal government becoming as
> repressive as the British crown, but I'd assumed that things had changed
> over there in the last couple of hundred years.  Perhaps I assumed too
> soon.


  A British contributor on another list expressed shock that we were so
"obsessed" with OUR Bill of Rights that we let hateful people sound off,
and let us know that there "someone saying racist things can be removed
the police". I was shocked back, pointing out that we fought a war of
independance to stop His Majesty's officers from "removing" people who
said things they did not like, see "Zenger, P". I also asked who got to
decide what was "racist", but got no reply; neither, now I think, did he
ever say where they were "removed" to.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:13:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:15:47 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001a01c29513$43bef320$396a550c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: <01a001c294bf$64a82240$621386d9-AT-
default> <3DE2A252.85133B08-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

<<In case anyone wondered, this almost certainly wouldn't fly in the U.S.,
because our First Amendment would probably prohibit a blanket licensing
requirement on an entire category of expression, which playing music
certainly is. >>

I wish you were right, but it ain't so. Dancing, for example, is a category
of expression that, in many communities, requires a license. Our local
contra-dance group has run into this twice now; first, in their early days
renting space from Childgrove School, they were faced with the necessity of
having the school get a dance-hall license when the city of University City
passed an ordinance requiring them in any establishments in which dancing
took place. The ordinance was aimed at sleazy bars, but in effect it created
a blanket licensing requirement. (The city council put in an amendment
exempting schools, as I recall. Maybe churches too.)

A few years later the same group sought to rent space in Maplewood; a local
entrepreneur was renovating a building as a multi-use facility, including a
dance studio, and the contra-dancers planned to move there. The city fire
marshal put an end to it, saying no dance-hall would be licensed while he
was in office. They moved to another municipality, where they remain
happily.

Similarly, I believe many communities in the USA also require cabaret
licenses in any establishment where both live music and liquor are
available.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 22:17:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:20:08 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001f01c29513$deb1b2a0$396a550c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01DDA2AC.6752A85D.0078596C-AT-
aol.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com>

<<Composers and lyricists receive royalties through ASCAP and BMI (including
our very own Jacqueline Schwab and probably others).  Otherwise they'd never
see anything for their effort.  Anyone who performs copyrighted music in a
live, public performance pays a royalty to one of these licensing agencies.
>>

Actually, they don't. The venue does. A blanket fee, unfortunately not
divvied up according to what music is actually performed there, but rather
according to a complex sampling formula based on airplay. So if you sing a
song by, say, Bill Harley in a public place, a fraction of a cent will go to
Eminem.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:17:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:17:19 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DE32E0F.5E4C699-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01a001c294bf$64a82240$621386d9-AT-
default> <3DE2A252.85133B08-AT-
sbcglobal.net> <001a01c29513$43bef320$396a550c-AT-
paulstam>

Paul Stamler wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
> 
> <<In case anyone wondered, this almost certainly wouldn't fly in the U.S.,
> because our First Amendment would probably prohibit a blanket licensing
> requirement on an entire category of expression, which playing music
> certainly is. >>
> 
> I wish you were right, but it ain't so. Dancing, for example, is a category
> of expression that, in many communities, requires a license. Our local
> contra-dance group has run into this twice now; first, in their early days
> renting space from Childgrove School, they were faced with the necessity of
> having the school get a dance-hall license when the city of University City
> passed an ordinance requiring them in any establishments in which dancing
> took place. The ordinance was aimed at sleazy bars, but in effect it created
> a blanket licensing requirement. 

I haven't looked into the justifications for cabaret licenses, but I'd
guess that it's related to the idea that dancing for one's own amusement,
as distinct from performing for an audience, isn't a form of protected
expression.  You may disagree with that, but it's probably the rationale
behind cabaret licensing being constitutional.  It's much, much harder to
regulate dancing in the performance sense, which is why there's a huge body
of Supreme Court decisions on municipal laws against nude dancing
establishments.  Those can be regulated, it turns out, but there are some
very strict limitations to how much.  I strongly suspect the arguments in
favor of regulating nude dancing establishments wouldn't apply to
contra-dancing establishments, so possibly your contra group would have
done better if it had charged people money to sit and watch you.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:35:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:35:39 -0500
From: eba-AT-
umich.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <1319328.1038303339-AT-
OphthyElecGX260.med.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--On Monday, November 25, 2002 5:13 PM -0800 Jon Berger 
<jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net> wrote:

[snip]


> I think there's very little doubt that if this law is passed, it will mean
> full employment for lawyers for years and years, as little subtle points
> like this are fought out in court.  I personally think that's a GOOD
> thing, but of course not everyone will agree.  :)

Hmmm...  Bleak House?

Eric
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:49:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:48:54 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF61AAE639.25C1101D-ON85256C7D.0051125E-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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----- Original Message -----
From: <SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com>

<<Composers and lyricists receive royalties through ASCAP and BMI
(including
our very own Jacqueline Schwab and probably others).  Otherwise they'd
never
see anything for their effort.  Anyone who performs copyrighted music in a
live, public performance pays a royalty to one of these licensing agencies.
>>

Even if one were to receive royalties from these organizations, I hope
there are not many (including J. S.) who would portray non-remuneration as
"not seeing anything for their effort" !!!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 06:51:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 09:51:02 -0500
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFD418BCDA.02DCED9F-ON85256C7D.00517A99-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I haven't looked into the justifications for cabaret licenses, but I'd
guess that it's related to the idea that dancing for one's own amusement,
as distinct from performing for an audience, isn't a form of protected
expression.  You may disagree with that, but it's probably the rationale
behind cabaret licensing being constitutional.  It's much, much harder to
regulate dancing in the performance sense, which is why there's a huge body
of Supreme Court decisions on municipal laws against nude dancing
establishments.  Those can be regulated, it turns out, but there are some
very strict limitations to how much.  I strongly suspect the arguments in
favor of regulating nude dancing establishments wouldn't apply to
contra-dancing establishments, so possibly your contra group would have
done better if it had charged people money to sit and watch you.

--
Jon Berger

--- or danced nude.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:11:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:14:09 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000a01c29577$9f9febe0$f26e550c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01a001c294bf$64a82240$621386d9-AT-
default> <3DE2A252.85133B08-AT-
sbcglobal.net> <001a01c29513$43bef320$396a550c-AT-
paulstam> <3DE32E0F.5E4C699-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

----- Original Message -----

<<I haven't looked into the justifications for cabaret licenses, but I'd
guess that it's related to the idea that dancing for one's own amusement,
as distinct from performing for an audience, isn't a form of protected
expression.  You may disagree with that, but it's probably the rationale
behind cabaret licensing being constitutional.  It's much, much harder to
regulate dancing in the performance sense, which is why there's a huge body
of Supreme Court decisions on municipal laws against nude dancing
establishments.  Those can be regulated, it turns out, but there are some
very strict limitations to how much.  I strongly suspect the arguments in
favor of regulating nude dancing establishments wouldn't apply to
contra-dancing establishments, so possibly your contra group would have
done better if it had charged people money to sit and watch you.>>

Almost certainly that's the case; right down the street was the Center for
Contemporary Arts, where dance concerts were put on all the time without the
need for a dance-hall license (which, at least in this municipality, was
distinct from a cabaret license; the latter covered music for entertainment,
without dancing). During the debate on the ordinance, it became clear that
the two main concerns of the city council were fire and community nuisances
such as noise and drunks outside. Apparently they thought bars with dancing
attracted extra patrons (or extra-grubby patrons) who would then bother the
neighbors. They may have been worried about nude dancers too, but the
question didn't come up during debate.

Peace,
Paul

--
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 10:49:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 12:52:03 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <004c01c2957c$e9b48380$f26e550c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <OFD418BCDA.02DCED9F-ON85256C7D.00517A99-AT-
biogen.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>

<< I strongly suspect the arguments in
favor of regulating nude dancing establishments wouldn't apply to
contra-dancing establishments, so possibly your contra group would have
done better if it had charged people money to sit and watch you.

--
Jon Berger

--- or danced nude.
Cammy >>

We've done that, at the old Kimmswick dance weekends. Always felt sorry for
the banjo player.

Peace,
Paul
(and I noticed there were no accordions in evidence)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 11:02:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 14:56:48 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Announcing Christmas Dance Party
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <018301c2957d$92e00240$8492e018-AT-
johnwood>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_hi29k5Oc7S3Q7PPzDms0DQ)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_hi29k5Oc7S3Q7PPzDms0DQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

THE PLAYFORD DANCERS' GROUP
wish to announce that a
CHRISTMAS DANCE PARTY
will be held on
Tuesday, December 17th, 2002,
at the North Woodside Community Centre
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia,
from 7.30 p.m. to 10 p.m.
Admission $3.00.
Dances will include Playford, traditional English Folk and contras.
The event is open to all dancers who are
within reasonable travelling distance of 
the venue.
It is realized it is not a "ball" that is being held, but it is a
step in the right direction to increase interest in English 
country dancing and widen the scope of our activities!

Contact: John Wood  Tel. (902) 835-5154
                          E-mail:  johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net

--Boundary_(ID_hi29k5Oc7S3Q7PPzDms0DQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>THE PLAYFORD DANCERS' 
GROUP</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>wish to announce that a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial><STRONG>CHRISTMAS DANCE 
PARTY</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>will be held on</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Tuesday, December 17th, 
</STRONG>2002,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>at the North Woodside Community 
Centre</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dartmouth, Nova Scotia,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>from 7.30 p.m. to 10 p.m.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>Admission $3.00.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dances will include Playford, 
traditional English Folk and contras.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>The event is open to all dancers who 
are</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>within reasonable travelling distance 
of </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>the&nbsp;venue.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is realized it is not a "ball" that 
is being held, but it is a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>step in the right direction to 
increase interest in English </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=center><FONT face=Arial size=2>country dancing and widen the scope of 
our activities!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Contact:</STRONG> John 
Wood&nbsp; Tel. (902) 835-5154</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial 
size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;E-mail:&nbsp; 
<A 
href="mailto:johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net">johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_hi29k5Oc7S3Q7PPzDms0DQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:05:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:05:11 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3DE41A47.8FC4EC20-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <OFD418BCDA.02DCED9F-ON85256C7D.00517A99-AT-
biogen.com> <004c01c2957c$e9b48380$f26e550c-AT-
paulstam>

Paul Stamler wrote:

> --- or danced nude.
> Cammy >>
> 
> We've done that, at the old Kimmswick dance weekends. Always felt sorry for
> the banjo player.
> 
> Peace,
> Paul
> (and I noticed there were no accordions in evidence)

You say that like it's a bad thing.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 04:07:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:12:40 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001601c2960e$56935580$1e4a3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_vO8NMu9CNhpacLFUgUoS7Q)"
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_vO8NMu9CNhpacLFUgUoS7Q)
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I have received the attached letter from my MP, to whom I wrote expressing
fears about the proposed reforms. I recommend all UK readers to do the same,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Barraclough" <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:51 PM
Subject: RE: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]


The position is much worse than it appears!!  The bill covers most forms
of entertainment, including dancing.  The folk dance club I attend meets
in a school hall, as do many others.  In future this will be impossible
unless the school applies for a license (which is likely to be a 4-fig £
* 1.5 for $ sum).

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
ssrl04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Jon Berger
Sent: 25 November 2002 22:21
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Fw: [Fwd: Re Licensing Bill]

I'm not seeing anything in the language of the Act that gives me much
guidance on how hard these licenses would be to get.  The fellow who
wrote
the article that was forwarded mentions a lot of stuff about having to
get
permission from the fire department, police, environmental authorities,
and
so forth; I'm not seeing where he gets this.  I'm not saying he's wrong,
either, just that I don't see any evidence of it in the law itself,
which
is hardly surprising: laws typically leave the implementation details to
the departments that administer them.  If getting a license is going to
be
a horrible and expensive process, this really is disastrous; if it's
just
something like filling out a form and sending it in with a check for a
few
pounds, it's probably not so bad, though even then it opens the door for
getting worse in the future.  I'd be very curious to read an impartial
analysis of exactly what it's going to take to get one of these
licenses.

In case anyone wondered, this almost certainly wouldn't fly in the U.S.,
because our First Amendment would probably prohibit a blanket licensing
requirement on an entire category of expression, which playing music
certainly is.  Does the UK have any sort of constitutional guarantee
that
corresponds to the First Amendment?  I realize that our Bill of Rights
was
written in response to fears of the U.S. federal government becoming as
repressive as the British crown, but I'd assumed that things had changed
over there in the last couple of hundred years.  Perhaps I assumed too
soon.

--
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger

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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////8P/w/AAH8An4f8fgf8P/4f8H+D/A/wf//4P4
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
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////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////+D//
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//////////////////////////////////////////////////h/+AB/