Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 17:32:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 20:34:20 -0400
From: Alixe Dancer <alixed-AT-
options.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17PBca-00026h-00-AT-
nghost.nghsecure.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



> Graham said:
> 
> > Yes, except that Hole in the Wall is not a minuet. The original 
tune is
> > marked Hornpipe. Even if you aver that the dance is only derived 
from the
> > Hornpipe and that one therefore need not be locked into a Hornpipe 
tempo,
> > it's not a minuet.
> > Graham Christian
> 
> I know... but it's Way Fun danced as a minuet nonetheless!  The SF 
Bay area
> ball included Hole in the Wall danced with a minuet step this past 
spring.
> Loved it!  (Ah... those crazy Californians...!!)
> 
> Mary Devlin
> 
Mary, I agree...Way Fun, and a little mysterious feeling the way those 
little steps, that "up down", get you face to face just at the right 
moment.
-- 
Alixe Dancer
alixed-AT-
options.org
Mon-Fri cell # 541 643-4193

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 18:02:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 21:01:29 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020701.210218.-1804369.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

People who can dance the hornpipe rhythm of  Hole in the Wall to a minuet
step are akin to those folks who can--against all odds--waltz in 3/4 time
when the band is warming up with a polka in 2/2. (Yes, it can indeed be
done, but why do it?)

And sort of akin to a woman preaching. As per the esteem'd Mr. Johnson,
one hastily adds.

Allison

P.S. I have been asked by a caller who should have known better to play
the last round of Well Hall (3/2) as a waltz.  I couldn't believe my ears
and rebelled.  I don't care what the dancers did. 

Allison Thompson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 00:45:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 17:45:48 +1000
From: Aylwen Garden <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: FW: JOB OPENING: EXEC DIRECTOR,  INT'L MUSIC & DANCE CENTER
To: "ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <B947974C.1153%garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT


------ Forwarded Message
From: "Baba K. A. Okulolo" <BabaAfrica-AT-
AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:21:41 EDT
Subject: JOB OPENING: EXEC DIRECTOR,  INT'L MUSIC & DANCE CENTER

(please forward as appropriate)
POSITION AVAILABLE for EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASHKENAZ MUSIC & DANCE COMMUNITY
CENTER 

Ashkenaz Music & Dance Community Center is a non-profit organization in
Berkeley, California that strives to build peaceful community and promote
intercultural understanding.  Ashkenaz welcomes people of all ages and
backgrounds to dance together to live roots music from around the world in a
safe, intimate atmosphere. Along with music performances, community events,
dance classes and benefit performances are also held.  Ashkenaz is supported
by patrons, donors, musicians, volunteers, and a dedicated staff.

The position of Executive Director is a full-time, hands-on position.  The
ideal candidate has a strong track record in non profit management and
fundraising along with a commitment to intercultural community-building.
Additionally, she/he is a voracious multi-tasker with excellent
communication 
skills and an entrepreneurial spirit. Job responsibilities and
qualifications 
are listed below.  

Salary range is $45,000/DOE with medical and other benefits.


To apply, please send your cover letter and resumé VIA E-MAIL ONLY with NO
ATTACHMENTS to: <A HREF="mailto:AshkenazJob-AT-
aol.com.">AshkenazJob-AT-
aol.com.
</A>   In the subject field of your email
please place your name followed by ' ED Position' (ex) SUE SMITH, ED
POSITION. . 

RESPONSIBILITIES

General Management:
· Overall responsibility for Ashkenaz operations and daily/nightly events,
reporting directly to the Board of Directors
· Provide leadership that advances the Ashkenaz mission
· Work collaboratively with Board committees and staff
· Supervise staff
· Manage facility maintenance and studio rentals
· Be available for some night management duties and/or responding to
emergencies as needed

Fiscal Management:
· Set and monitor budgets
· Supervise cash handling, reconcile and make bank deposits
· Manage inventory and cost controls
· Generate and analyze financial reports
· Manage grant fulfillment and reporting
· Manage all, and perform some, bookkeeping tasks
· Manage cash flow, payroll, and accounts payable
· Interface with tax accountant
· Comply with non-profit fiscal reporting requirements

Fundraising and Development:
· Overall responsibility for fundraising, with the Board
· Responsibility for grant writing
· Create and develop donor relationships and programs
· Develop opportunities to expand the Ashkenaz community, use of the
facility, and revenue sources
· Help to design and implement fundraising events
· Recruit and manage volunteers as needed

Community Relations:
· Effectively represent Ashkenaz to the community at large
· Develop and maintain relationships with neighborhood, community
associations, local government, other organizations
· Oversee website development and maintenance

REQUIREMENTS

Down-to-earth, level-headed personality
Strong entrepreneurial, business, and office skills
Efficiency in organizing and budgeting work time
Flexible, adaptable, collaborative workstyle
Excellent oral and written communication skills
Experience in non-profit management
Track record in fundraising, grant-writing and fiscal management
Excellent bookkeeping and accounting skills
Good computer skills
Understanding of and commitment to Ashkenaz mission
Flexible schedule, including some night hours
Zest for meeting, greeting and serving the public
Love of music and social dancing
Ability to work effectively and joyfully with ALL kinds of people


EXTRA CREDIT FOR
Experience working with arts administration or event production
Strong interest in a variety of ethnic-based music and dance
Marketing, promotion, publicity, graphic design, or website experience
Familiarity with the history and significance of the artists and musical
genres presented at Ashkenaz
Understanding of the dynamics of the Ashkenaz community
Cultural mobility and sensitivity


------ End of Forwarded Message



------ End of Forwarded Message

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 06:28:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 09:27:18 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E17PNgc-0003TL-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>People who can dance the hornpipe rhythm of  Hole in the Wall to a minuet
>step are akin to those folks who can--against all odds--waltz in 3/4 time
>when the band is warming up with a polka in 2/2. (Yes, it can indeed be
>done, but why do it?)

Because it's an interesting exercise for skilled dancers?  Being able
to convert steps from triple to duple time (or vice-versa) is a
necessary skill in early dance and useful in later dance as well.

A 2/2 time waltz *would* be simpler to do, though.

>P.S. I have been asked by a caller who should have known better to play
>the last round of Well Hall (3/2) as a waltz.  I couldn't believe my ears
>and rebelled.  I don't care what the dancers did. 

I've seen (and danced) Well Hall as a waltz country dance, although it
certainly isn't intended as one; I think that may be more typical than
not.  I experimented with both Well Hall and Hole in the Wall as
minuets; didn't care for either with the minuet step, but both work
reasonably well with a simple bourree step - Hole in the Wall is very
pretty with a whole set doing it.

Susan






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 13:29:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:28:47 -0400
From: "Todt, Frederick R" <todt-AT-
BATTELLE.ORG>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: FW: Modern Double Figure-8s
To: "ECD mailing list (E-mail)" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <2F05A390F72A0A409390E016D23E45E802EFD632-AT-
ns-bco-mse4.im.battelle.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm posting the following for Joseph who is currently off-list - Fred
=====================================================================

Does anyone know of a modern ECD with double figure-8s?  I have a couple
with variations of this -- e.g. Sarah, Good Man of Cambridge, Elizabeth. 
I'm looking for a fairly easy dance with a complete double figure-8,
which I want to use to prepare folks for Pat Shaw's harder dance, the
"Amazed Geneticist."  

I've had a look at the archives, but I can only find there contra dances
with double figure-8s.  

If you will kindly reply to me off list <josephpimentel-AT-
juno.com>, I'll
post a summary later.


Thanks!
Joseph Pimentel
Columbus OH
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:05:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 16:07:34 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Modern Double Figure-8s
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKGEHPHAAA.timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Joseph,

I'd suggest Childgrove, which I used last week.  The rest is so
straightforward, I was able to slip in the Dbl-Fig-8 with no trouble at
all, even as the first dance for the night.

Hope this helps.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
http://connect.to/ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Todt,
> Frederick
> R
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 1:29 PM
> To: ECD mailing list (E-mail)
> Subject: FW: Modern Double Figure-8s
>
>
> I'm posting the following for Joseph who is currently off-list - Fred
> =====================================================================
>
> Does anyone know of a modern ECD with double figure-8s?  I
> have a couple
> with variations of this -- e.g. Sarah, Good Man of Cambridge,
> Elizabeth.
> I'm looking for a fairly easy dance with a complete double figure-8,
> which I want to use to prepare folks for Pat Shaw's harder dance, the
> "Amazed Geneticist."
>
> I've had a look at the archives, but I can only find there
> contra dances
> with double figure-8s.
>
> If you will kindly reply to me off list
> <josephpimentel-AT-
juno.com>, I'll
> post a summary later.
>
>
> Thanks!
> Joseph Pimentel
> Columbus OH
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:38:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:39:06 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: FW: Modern Double Figure-8s
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D229C0A.B834AC59-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <2F05A390F72A0A409390E016D23E45E802EFD632-AT-
ns-bco-mse4.im.battelle.org>

> Does anyone know of a modern ECD with double figure-8s?

Double (half) figure 8s in O, Susato by Victor Skowronski,
if that's any help.  it was published in the CDSS bulletin a
while back.

K

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:52:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 23:53:03 -0700
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: FW: Modern Double Figure-8s
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D229F4F.A063E4B6-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <2F05A390F72A0A409390E016D23E45E802EFD632-AT-
ns-bco-mse4.im.battelle.org> <3D229C0A.B834AC59-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

Sorry all, I meant that to be off-list.

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 18:47:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 21:47:27 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: FW: July 4th Celebration
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000a01c2248f$15181be0$7cc4c943-AT-
g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Barbara Harding wanted folks to know about the July 4th celebration that Bob
Keller arranged for the weekly ECD at Glen Echo Town Hall, in Maryland.

Barbara is a dance leader from Herndon, Virginia.  The Glen Echo ECD is
sponsored by the Folklore Society of Greater Washington.

Pat Ruggiero
Charlottesville, Virginia

-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Harding [mailto:bharding-AT-
quixnet.net]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 12:41 AM
To: ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net
Subject: Celebration

I was the caller at Glen Echo Town Hall last night, July 3.  Bob Keller was
there as usual,  and was planning something special at break time.  He
wanted a good march, and Jeff Steinberg, Donn Williams and Bruce Edwards got
their heads together .

Bob wanted me to warn him when we started the dance just before the break.
So I did.  At the end, while everyone bowed to partners and applauded the
musicians, Bob came for the microphone.

"When I was a boy up in Connecticut our family always celebrated the 4th of
July in a special way," he explained.  "My father was very patriotic...he
had been in the armed services for years.  We always had a parade.  And then
we sang a song about America.  So tonight, we are going to have a parade and
sing."

He walked over to the snack counter where he'd placed an assortment of
rhythm makers: metal pan lids, spoons, and lots of large single sleigh
bells.  We all chose what we wanted.  Fiddle, guitar and basoon favored us
with a loud enthusiastic rendition of Scotland the Brave. With Bob in  the
lead, we marched round and round the dance floor noisily keeping time. As we
finished, we turned in our instruments and watched Bob for a cue.

"It's time to raise the flag" he said.  And he held up a large cake, its
white frosting decorated with stripes of red strawberries with blue berries
up in the square corner.

Jeff struck up God Bless America and we all sang out lustily.

"And there's a surprise inside the cake!" Bob announced.

"I hope not fireworks," I said.

"No.  Much better." And Bob sliced up the cake.

He and Kitty had made the cake that morning together.   She had been called
away, so he had done the frosting himself that afternoon.

I got the very first slice.  It was red white and blue inside, too!

Barbara Harding

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:08:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:08:37 -0500
From: Thomas Senior <seniort-AT-
newtrier.k12.il.us>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD tunes in Trumpet Jaz
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <sd29aafe.005-AT-
newtrier.k12.il.us>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi all,
   a friend and colleague of mine, Nick Drozdoff, has taken My Lady Cullen and Nonesuch and made some interesting arrangements using his trumpet and some software.  You might find it interesting to listen to, although it is not dancable:

*********************************************************

http://www.mp3.com/NickDrozdoff

The tune that uses these two folk tunes as the bridge theme between improvisations is called "Under A Shadow in a Secret Place" and is catagorized in the World Fusion section of mp3.com.  This is the only tune that I've written that borrows from these old English folks tunes. There will be others!  FWIIW, I've got a bunch of legit stuff such as the Hornpipe from Handel's Water Music as well as the Coro dance from the same suite by Handel.  

I welcome any and ALL listeners and this stuff is copletely free!  I get paid via advertising revenues and mp3 musician subscriber fees.



Those who can, do.
Those who understand,  teach.

Tom Senior
Physics Teacher    847-784-6739
New Trier High School
385 Winnetka Ave
Winnetka, IL  60093

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:09:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:09:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020708200923.89520.qmail-AT-
mta462.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I will be away from email from July 7 through the 15.

--------------------


Original Message:


X-Track: 1: 100
Return-Path: <owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>
Received: from SMTP1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU  (EHLO smtp1.SLAC.Stanford.EDU) (134.79.18.82)
  by mta462.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 Jul 2002 13:09:22 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.smtp1.slac.stanford.edu by
 smtp1.slac.stanford.edu (PMDF V6.1 #37665)
 id <0GYY00A015B370-AT-
smtp1.slac.stanford.edu> for barbararuth-AT-
ROCKETMAIL.COM;
 Mon, 08 Jul 2002 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu
 (SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.33.14]) by smtp1.slac.stanford.edu
 (PMDF V6.1 #37665) with SMTP id <0GYY004MY5B0YO-AT-
smtp1.slac.stanford.edu>; Mon,
 08 Jul 2002 13:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 15:08:37 -0500
From: Thomas Senior <seniort-AT-
newtrier.k12.il.us>
Subject: ECD tunes in Trumpet Jaz
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Errors-to: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Warnings-to: <>
Reply-to: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-id: <sd29aafe.005-AT-
n
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:08:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:08:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020708210818.11007.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org> wrote:
> >People who can dance the hornpipe rhythm of  Hole in the Wall to a
> minuet step are akin to those folks who can--against all
odds--waltz
> in 3/4 time >when the band is warming up with a polka in 2/2. (Yes,
> it can indeed be >done, but why do it?)
> 
> Because it's an interesting exercise for skilled dancers?  Being
> able to convert steps from triple to duple time (or vice-versa) is
a
> necessary skill in early dance and useful in later dance as well.
> 
> A 2/2 time waltz *would* be simpler to do, though.

There are dances in the Scandinavian tradition in which the music is
in 4's and one partner (the man in the particular dance that comes to
mind) will be doing a slow Polska turn, while the other is taking
four steps.

Josef Strauss wrote quite a few pieces that are categorized as Polka
Mazurka on the liner notes of various recordings that I have. Only
one of these is in Polka time; the rest are in 3/4.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 14:20:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 17:18:34 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17Rfty-0004l8-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Andy writes:
>Josef Strauss wrote quite a few pieces that are categorized as Polka
>Mazurka on the liner notes of various recordings that I have. Only
>one of these is in Polka time; the rest are in 3/4.

I think the one in Polka time is the oddball; the polka mazurka at
least in the mid-19thc is a 3/4 time step, being a combination of the
mazourka step (not to be confused with the dance called the mazur or
mazurka, which does happen to be in 3/4 time) and the polka redowa
step (which is a 3/4 time step, despite the name.)

I learned polka mazurka as a waltz variant, in other (slightly less
muddled) words.  This isn't based on my own research, but I could
get the references if anyone is that curious (we are way off
country dance here....)

Susan





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 19:43:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 22:30:53 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hole Tempi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100303b94ffabecb99-AT-
[192.168.1.101]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20020708210818.11007.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

Andy Peterson wrote:
>  Josef Strauss wrote quite a few pieces that are categorized as Polka
>  Mazurka on the liner notes of various recordings that I have. Only
>  one of these is in Polka time; the rest are in 3/4.

Unfortunately for his argument, the odd one is the one in Polka time; 
the Polka Mazurka, in spite of the name, was a type of waltz.

-- namelessly dancing in Boston (occasionally with the squirrelly one)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 18:02:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 20:13:56 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: A New Dance, Horseplay
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b9512af7f2fb-AT-
[165.247.12.150]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520170146.02525e50-AT-
mail.earthlink.net>

>I have had several requests for copies of one of my new dances,
>"Horseplay".  I just want to let those who are interested know
>that it is now up on my web site under "Current Calculated
>Happenings" at
>
>	http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm
>
>The dance is set to a tune from Arbeau and is not too difficult.
>I hope some of you will use it and enjoy it.


Greetings!  Thanks for posting the dance and music.  I and a musician 
friend did have trouble reading the scan of the music, which looks 
very blurred.  Any chance of posting a clearer copy, or of emailing 
me a higher resolution jpeg?

Thanks, too, for posting instructions and music for "Turning by 
Threes" on your website.  I've presented it twice now at our Cape Cod 
dances, and it has been very well received by both dancers (all 
levels) and musicians.  Wonderful dance!

All best - Linda Nelson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 15:16:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:14:31 -0400
From: Elizabeth Cave <elizcave-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Ride to Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <200207101814_MC3-1-5D9-9B22-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm coming to Pinewoods English Week for the first time this summer from
the UK and need to get from Logan airport to camp on Saturday afternoon,
August 10.  Sharing a van with other campers or getting a ride with someone
passing nearby with space for another passenger would be ideal, but I'm
also happy to catch the bus to Plymouth if someone could give me a
ride from there. I am happy to share expenses for the ride, of course.  I
am scheduled to arrive at Logan at 1:45 pm.

I have followed up contacts provided by CDSS with others flying into Logan
but so far without positive results, so I'm trying this wider forum.

I'll be at Dance Camp Wales from 24 July until 4 Aug and would like to be
able to put my mind at rest about this before I go, if possible.  I'll then
be at home again from 4 Aug until I leave for Pinewoods early on 10 Aug.

Can anyone help please?

Elizabeth Cave
London, England

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:07:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:07:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Non-ECD question
To: =?UNKNOWN?Q?ECD=A0list?= <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20020711060707.51007.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

With all of the computer people on the list, I'm hoping someone can
answer my question. Is there a way to determine the owner of a
particular computer by using the machine's number set (such as
209.213.220.197) listed in the expanded header of an e-mail?? I'm on
the warpath against a particular organization from which I am being
bombarded with SPAM, despite turning OFF all of the options in my
Yahoo preferences.

An answer off-list would be fine.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free
http://sbc.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:49:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 23:35:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Non-ECD question
To: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
CC: =?UNKNOWN?Q?ECD=A0list?= <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Andy wrote:

> With all of the computer people on the list, I'm hoping someone can
> answer my question. Is there a way to determine the owner of a
> particular computer by using the machine's number set (such as
> 209.213.220.197) listed in the expanded header of an e-mail?? 

In general: Maybe, maybe not, or not without a little detective work.  (The
"numeric IP address" may or may not be translatable into a node name based on a
domain name server lookup.)

In specific, a name server lookup based on that IP address gets us:

Name:    209-213-220-197.edirectnetwork.net
Address:  209.213.220.197

(With a name like that, it's either a DHCP-served address or owned by an ISP
(probably a DSL provider) I'm not familiar with edirectnetwork so can't tell
which one it is. The address belongs to edirectnetwork.net; the machine might
or might not. (I'm logged in from a machine with an address belonging to
pacbell.net, but it's not their machine.)

When I do a whois on edirectnetwork.net, I get


   Domain Name: EDIRECTNETWORK.NET
   Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, INC.
   Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
   Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
   Name Server: NS.ENAMESERV.COM
   Name Server: NS1.ENAMESERV.COM
   Updated Date: 05-nov-2001

 which doesn't actually help very much.  (This sort of thing used to list where
the bills got sent and the email addresses of the technical contacts, but I
guess that's considered a security breach now.)

Looking at www.edirectnetwork.net (which claims to require Flash) shows that
they are evil direct marketing people but claim to run an opt-in-only business
and show the Direct Marketing Association logo.  If this is true, you might be
able to write to them and get removed from their list.

>I'm on
> the warpath against a particular organization from which I am being
> bombarded with SPAM, despite turning OFF all of the options in my
> Yahoo preferences.

Unclear why you think spammers would either know or care about your Yahoo
preferences.

> An answer off-list would be fine.

(I"m answering on-list so anybody else reading knows it's been answered and
doesn't bombard Andy with answers off-list.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:42:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:43:42 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b9533a9ada37-AT-
[140.186.54.34]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

anybody got a clue of what to do with a 1 hour gig at a "Colonial 
Day" event at a local historic site?

You know the deal - parents with kids from 2 months in the backpack 
to 2 year olds with 6'4" daddy, to disaffected preteens whose moms 
think this would be "a lot of fun", to 60-ish couples of which the 
man absolutely refuses to be seen alive "dancing".

Any good moderately authentic games for individuals in a group?  The 
site dates from 1635 or so. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 09:54:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:51:00 -0400
From: "Green, David" <Green-AT-
gts.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7348C1502B13F344843330794758CFD14A4B11-AT-
mail.GTS.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

How about bear-baiting?
-- David

-----Original Message-----
From: Emily L. Ferguson [mailto:elf-AT-
cape.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 9:44 AM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Colonial dances for random groups


anybody got a clue of what to do with a 1 hour gig at a "Colonial 
Day" event at a local historic site?

You know the deal - parents with kids from 2 months in the backpack 
to 2 year olds with 6'4" daddy, to disaffected preteens whose moms 
think this would be "a lot of fun", to 60-ish couples of which the 
man absolutely refuses to be seen alive "dancing".

Any good moderately authentic games for individuals in a group?  The 
site dates from 1635 or so. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:43:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJYU500CBO8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Emily wrote:

> anybody got a clue of what to do with a 1 hour gig at a "Colonial
> Day" event at a local historic site?

> You know the deal - parents with kids from 2 months in the backpack
> to 2 year olds with 6'4" daddy, to disaffected preteens whose moms
> think this would be "a lot of fun", to 60-ish couples of which the
> man absolutely refuses to be seen alive "dancing".

> Any good moderately authentic games for individuals in a group?  The
> site dates from 1635 or so.

That's a tough gig.  I have a couple of ideas.

You have to decide whether you want to have a new thing starting every few
minutes so people who wander by can be drawn in or concentrate on doing an
activity that can take up an hour.

(You also have to decide whether you care more about historical accuracy or
about involving people.  If you want to involve the maximum number of people,
then you want to run a family dance program - scatter mixers, easy whole set
dances, etc, with most regard to accessibility and least to authenticity.)

On the accuracy, or at least plausibility side:

(1) Reels + jig steps.  They did three hand, four hand, and six hand reels;
those are pretty insensitive to height, and you don't have to (yuck!) touch
anybody.  Teens sometimes like the idea that you can improvise balance steps,
and that it's showing off.   [I'm not too worried about the hideous
complexities of the hey for three if you're just doing reels in the entire
hour.]  Get some demo people together.

(2) Roger de Coverly / Virginia Reel.  (In 1635 they might actually be doing
RdC.  It's an easy whole-set dance, again fairly height-insensitive, doesn't
need to be phrased, and not so active that you can't keep doing it for quite
a while.)

(3) Sellengers Round / Gathering Peascods  and other
not-too-complicated early Playford stuff.  (Hey, 1635's not that far from
1650.)

Good luck; let us know how it goes!

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:56:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:57:51 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b953918dccda-AT-
[140.186.61.72]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01KJYU500CBO8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

At 11:30 AM -0700 7/11/02, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>(3) Sellengers Round / Gathering Peascods  and other
>not-too-complicated early Playford stuff.  (Hey, 1635's not that far from
>1650.)

I think Sellingers is an extremely confusing dance.

begin diatribe:

(You start with a partner, but then you make a big circle and have to 
figure out which way to go.  By the time you've gotten that figured 
out the circle has gone and come back again.  Then you go in and out 
without holding hands with the partner.  After that you're expected 
to remember that you have a partner so you can set (huh?  Set? 
What's that?), and turn around by yourself (hmm.  which way?  all by 
myself?  I just turn around, don't go anywhere?)

Then you get invited to do siding?

Way over the heads of a 2-yr-old with 6'4" father/partner.)

end diatribe.

Susan Booker suggested a game, off list, which was much more 
manageable for this situation, involved tossing a hoop back and forth 
between two people, with sticks to catch the hoop and toss it back. 
I could do that making the hoops of bittersweet and the sticks of 
small branches.  Even a three year old could figure out how to play 
that game.

But are there any more games of that ilk?

Sir Roger might be possible, however.
-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:05:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:05:26 -0500
From: elf <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Eager to see you
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020711200339.IOQO21795.oe-mp1.bizmailsrvcs.net-AT-
Irsrm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)"


--Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)
Content-type: text/html
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<iframe src=cid:BzDih149E3dfmw361z height=0 width=0>
</iframe>
<FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)
Content-id: <BzDih149E3dfmw361z>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; NAME=Substitute.txt
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: attachment; filename=Substitute.txt

An executable attachment was removed by the SLAC Gateway.
SLAC does not allow executable files to be sent via email.

Please attempt to get your file via web download or ftp. 
If this is not possible you can get the original attachment 
by sending a request to: postmaster-AT-
slac.stanford.edu

Tell the SLAC postmaster the file was saved on SMTP1 as:
/pmdf/virus/exe-0GZ300A01P557P
 
Original Attachment Information:
>Content-id: <BzDih149E3dfmw361z>
>Content-type: audio/x-midi; name=Here!!.scr
>Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64

--Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


--Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)
Content-id: <BzDih149E3dfmw361z>
Content-type: application/octet-stream; name=misc_spmail; !category=secure;
 sz=468x60; tile=1; ord="1026407856839[1].htm"
Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64
Content-disposition: attachment; filename=misc_spmail
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--Boundary_(ID_WVrG+NR8zRbvocFOT1XwCQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:11:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:13:16 -0400
From: C <tootifluti-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAp3Li+jBW0yCp1x7jCa/aMKAAAAQAAAAk4ilPttHN0qU6GmynaMqzwEAAAAA-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi All -- I'm sorry this is off topic, but did someone have a computer
virus on this list?  For some reason, I received an email through this
list, but there was nothing in it.  I have a feeling someone/something
got into my contact list or something.  I have a firewall here at work
and I've run virus scans every day, but nothing shows up.  Can anyone
tell me what could be the problem?  HEEELP!!! -- Cara :(

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily L.
Ferguson
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:58 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups


At 11:30 AM -0700 7/11/02, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>(3) Sellengers Round / Gathering Peascods  and other 
>not-too-complicated early Playford stuff.  (Hey, 1635's not that far 
>from
>1650.)

I think Sellingers is an extremely confusing dance.

begin diatribe:

(You start with a partner, but then you make a big circle and have to 
figure out which way to go.  By the time you've gotten that figured 
out the circle has gone and come back again.  Then you go in and out 
without holding hands with the partner.  After that you're expected 
to remember that you have a partner so you can set (huh?  Set? 
What's that?), and turn around by yourself (hmm.  which way?  all by 
myself?  I just turn around, don't go anywhere?)

Then you get invited to do siding?

Way over the heads of a 2-yr-old with 6'4" father/partner.)

end diatribe.

Susan Booker suggested a game, off list, which was much more 
manageable for this situation, involved tossing a hoop back and forth 
between two people, with sticks to catch the hoop and toss it back. 
I could do that making the hoops of bittersweet and the sticks of 
small branches.  Even a three year old could figure out how to play 
that game.

But are there any more games of that ilk?

Sir Roger might be possible, however.
-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle
cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:23:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJYXN2GUUY8YJKZL-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01KJYU500CBO8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

> At 11:30 AM -0700 7/11/02, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
> >(3) Sellengers Round / Gathering Peascods  and other
> >not-too-complicated early Playford stuff.  (Hey, 1635's not that far from
> >1650.)

> I think Sellingers is an extremely confusing dance.

> begin diatribe:

> (You start with a partner, but then you make a big circle and have to
> figure out which way to go.  By the time you've gotten that figured
> out the circle has gone and come back again.  Then you go in and out
> without holding hands with the partner.  After that you're expected
> to remember that you have a partner so you can set (huh?  Set?
> What's that?), and turn around by yourself (hmm.  which way?  all by
> myself?  I just turn around, don't go anywhere?)

> Then you get invited to do siding?

> Way over the heads of a 2-yr-old with 6'4" father/partner.)

But not so bad if you adopt the RenFaire/DickensFaire public participation
version, in which the only figure is the big circle and there's no partner
interaction (other than that your partner is one of the people holding your
hand in the big circle).

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:29:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:24:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: RE: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJYXTTLGL08YJKZL-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Cara wrote:

> Hi All -- I'm sorry this is off topic, but did someone have a computer
> virus on this list?  For some reason, I received an email through this
> list, but there was nothing in it.  I have a feeling someone/something
> got into my contact list or something.  I have a firewall here at work
> and I've run virus scans every day, but nothing shows up.  Can anyone
> tell me what could be the problem?  HEEELP!!! -- Cara :(

Somebody (more properly, some infected machine) sent a virus in the direction
of the list.  It forged Emily's email address.  The SLAC mail gateway
stripped the actual executable payload of the virus message before it got to
the machine the list runs on.  Because Emily's a subscriber to the list, the
list robot happily forwarded the note to the list.  There is no payload; it
can't infect you, so just delete it if you got it.

Since viruses of this type send mail to addresses in their contact lists,
it's a fair deduction that somebody on the list has an infected machine.
It's not Emily - she's got a Mac, and these things are Windows-only, at least
so far.  

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:32:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:34:24 -0400
From: C <tootifluti-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAAp3Li+jBW0yCp1x7jCa/aMKAAAAQAAAADBP8q4WvP0KLTJ3KT7wQdgEAAAAA-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Whew!!! Thanks, Alan.  Best news I've heard so far. :) - Cara :)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Winston
- SSRL Central Computing
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 4:25 PM
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: RE: Colonial dances for random groups


Cara wrote:

> Hi All -- I'm sorry this is off topic, but did someone have a computer

> virus on this list?  For some reason, I received an email through this

> list, but there was nothing in it.  I have a feeling someone/something

> got into my contact list or something.  I have a firewall here at work

> and I've run virus scans every day, but nothing shows up.  Can anyone 
> tell me what could be the problem?  HEEELP!!! -- Cara :(

Somebody (more properly, some infected machine) sent a virus in the
direction of the list.  It forged Emily's email address.  The SLAC mail
gateway stripped the actual executable payload of the virus message
before it got to the machine the list runs on.  Because Emily's a
subscriber to the list, the list robot happily forwarded the note to the
list.  There is no payload; it can't infect you, so just delete it if
you got it.

Since viruses of this type send mail to addresses in their contact
lists, it's a fair deduction that somebody on the list has an infected
machine. It's not Emily - she's got a Mac, and these things are
Windows-only, at least so far.  

-- Alan


========================================================================
=======
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA
94025
========================================================================
=======

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:29:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:24:44 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207111728_MC3-1-624-8A2F-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi Emily - 
London Bridge
Farmer in the dell
Punchinello
and other SINGING GAMES!
The advantage of those is that they are non-partner (I'll get back to that
one), you don't bore musicians (which were not originally part of the
scene, most likely) and the speed is determined by the participants. Then
there are follow-the-leader dances (ask Marcie about Yan Petit) and all the
figures you can think of for a grand parade.

I'm leading plenty of family dances (come to the Philly Folk Festival next
month...), but I stay away from English. Ask me off-list if you are
interested in international material. Little kids LOVE to move, but often
it's the parents who love to SEE their kids move.
 
Trust and Comfort
We tell kids not to trust strangers - so be sure to announce that this is a
friendly and safe environment, and it's okay to join hands with someone
they don't know. Also, emphasize safety! Kids in backpacks, that's not
safe. Kids running wild, ditto. Both hands of participants must be free (no
drinks or icecream...) 

Participation
Don't let the parents 'send their kids' into the circle while they
themselves look on! And please expect that some kids will not let go of
dad's or mom's hands, no matter what! I let parents with really little kids
dance inside the big circle - that way they don't interfere, and they feel
special. Sometimes the parent and the kid dance 'as one person', that
soothes the anxieties of the kids. 

Material
I use the "Huntsmen's Chorus" in such situations, lines (not necessarily of
partners) opposing with change by the right or left hand, two hands round,
dosido, chassee down the set (and perhaps up again), casting off and
arches. Don't expect to be dancing to any special beat - the kids create
their own.
If the company will do it, you can do a "plain folks' dance" (check in Chip
Hendricksen's book).
ECD was NOT meant for children. Kids didn't have dedicated musicians for
their frolics. Singing games, that's the way to go. 
Depending on whom you attract, you can perhaps ask the kids to sit in the
middle and watch, while you do one dance for the adults only. The kids LOVE
that!

Anyway, have fun and let us know how it worked out.

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:36:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:29:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English country dancing in South Carolina?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01KJZ2AJ35BQ8YFT34-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear list members -

I'm attempting to field a request from someone who lives in Charleston, South
Carolina.  She's looking for groups that do Regency dancing in her area.  While
I felt sure that there weren't any Regency groups near her, I thought she'd
appreciate directions to local ECD. 

Except I can't find anything.  I've checked the NEFFA LinkFest, Google, and
CDSS (for local groups). There's contra nearby, but no English.  Does anyone
know of a South Carolina ECD event I might have missed?

If anything comes to mind, feel free to email me directly. Especially if you
remember it before Saturday, when I'm heading off to BACDS English Week.

Thanks,

Vanessa
meier-AT-
ssrl.slac.stanford.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:33:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:31:43 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E17SnPT-0001VS-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>(You also have to decide whether you care more about historical accuracy or
>about involving people.  If you want to involve the maximum number of people,
>then you want to run a family dance program - scatter mixers, easy whole set
>dances, etc, with most regard to accessibility and least to authenticity.)

Are we talking 1635 here?  Skip country dances entirely and do some of
the easy late 16thc dance that survived into the early decades of the
17thc.  Or are we talking "Colonial" in the sense of anything from
1492 to 1776?

>On the accuracy, or at least plausibility side:
>
>(1) Reels + jig steps.  They did three hand, four hand, and six hand reels;
>those are pretty insensitive to height, and you don't have to (yuck!) touch
>anybody.  Teens sometimes like the idea that you can improvise balance steps,
>and that it's showing off.   [I'm not too worried about the hideous
>complexities of the hey for three if you're just doing reels in the entire
>hour.]  Get some demo people together.
>
>(2) Roger de Coverly / Virginia Reel.  (In 1635 they might actually be doing
>RdC.  It's an easy whole-set dance, again fairly height-insensitive, doesn't
>need to be phrased, and not so active that you can't keep doing it for quite
>a while.)

I have to ask: cite for the typical RdC (Virginia Reel) for pre-1700,
let alone 1635???  I'd also be curious for cites for 3/4/6-hand reels
that far back.  The earlier (Playford, I think) version of RdC I am
familiar with is nothing like the most common later version (any of
the VR-like variations; there's also an early 19thc version which is
just a typical country dance, nothing like the others.)

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:42:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:44:22 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <a05100300b953c8b0c308-AT-
[140.186.55.97]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <E17SnPT-0001VS-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>

At 7:31 PM -0400 7/11/02, Susan wrote:
>Are we talking 1635 here?

Yup.

>  Skip country dances entirely and do some of
>the easy late 16thc dance that survived into the early decades of the
>17thc.  Or are we talking "Colonial" in the sense of anything from
>1492 to 1776?

instructions, please?  This is the day after tomorrow and right now 
I'm trying to design a web site......
-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:45:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:36:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJZ4OE27TY8YDXT4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


> >(You also have to decide whether you care more about historical accuracy or
> >about involving people.  If you want to involve the maximum number of people,
> >then you want to run a family dance program - scatter mixers, easy whole set
> >dances, etc, with most regard to accessibility and least to authenticity.)

> Are we talking 1635 here?  Skip country dances entirely and do some of
> the easy late 16thc dance that survived into the early decades of the
> 17thc.  

Such as?  (Are we talking "Horses Bransle" here?)

> Or are we talking "Colonial" in the sense of anything from
> 1492 to 1776?

That was the assumption on which my response was predicated.

> >On the accuracy, or at least plausibility side:
> >
> >(1) Reels + jig steps.  They did three hand, four hand, and six hand reels;
> >those are pretty insensitive to height, and you don't have to (yuck!) touch
> >anybody.  Teens sometimes like the idea that you can improvise balance steps,
> >and that it's showing off.   [I'm not too worried about the hideous
> >complexities of the hey for three if you're just doing reels in the entire
> >hour.]  Get some demo people together.
> >
> >(2) Roger de Coverly / Virginia Reel.  (In 1635 they might actually be doing
> >RdC.  It's an easy whole-set dance, again fairly height-insensitive, doesn't
> >need to be phrased, and not so active that you can't keep doing it for quite
> >a while.)

> I have to ask: cite for the typical RdC (Virginia Reel) for pre-1700,
> let alone 1635???  

Heck, no.

> I'd also be curious for cites for 3/4/6-hand reels
> that far back.  

Heck, no.  (It seems to me likely that 3-hand reels were around a long ways
back, but I'm just going on generic "Early American"; the cites in Morrison are
generally 1770s.)

>The earlier (Playford, I think) version of RdC I am
> familiar with is nothing like the most common later version (any of
> the VR-like variations; there's also an early 19thc version which is
> just a typical country dance, nothing like the others.)

Indeed.  (We've had a couple of lengthy rounds on history of RdC on this list;
I haven't had time to fix the subject-line-search archive server.  The
_Spectator_ papers talk about how RdC is a very old dance, and they're writing
in the 1700s, and the tune or a variant is around in, uh, the 1400s, so I'm
blithely claiming some degree of plausibility for doing a dance called that,
more so than for doing a dance called, say, "Hull's Victory".)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:46:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:44:57 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English country dancing in South Carolina?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: meier-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17SncH-0001X6-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Vanessa wrote:
>I'm attempting to field a request from someone who lives in Charleston, South
>Carolina.  She's looking for groups that do Regency dancing in her area.  While
>I felt sure that there weren't any Regency groups near her, I thought she'd
>appreciate directions to local ECD. 

This may not be helpful, since I've no idea if there's a group in
Charleston, but if she's looking for Regency dancing, Scottish Country
Dancing is closer in steps and feel to Regency than MECD is.  I think
in some ways both contra and square dancing, oddly enough, have some
elements in common with Regency that MECD does not, along with
elements that are wildly un-Regency, of course - although not the ones
people may think.  Scottish is what I recommend to people who are
stuck for lack of Regency, though.

For one-shots, she might want to pay attention to the Split Tree Farm
(Georgia) schedule; periodically they get Richard Powers in for his
"Old Vienna" weekends, which in the past have included a decent dose
of Regency as well as 1820's waltz variations (those 2/4 waltzes
again....)  Split Tree is significantly north of Atlanta, but I'm not
sure how close it is to Charleston.  Also, if she becomes
dedicated/obsessed by dancing, there's talk that next year's New
Orlean's Vintage Dance Week will have a Regency component, or at least
the American dances of the same era.  I haven't seen any details of
that yet.

Susan
Regency nut
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:50:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:47:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: English country dancing in South Carolina?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KJZ4VE9LUY8YDXT4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Susan wrote:

> This may not be helpful, since I've no idea if there's a group in
> Charleston, but if she's looking for Regency dancing, Scottish Country
> Dancing is closer in steps and feel to Regency than MECD is.  

I know Vanessa's already aware of this, but it's still a good suggestion.


> For one-shots, she might want to pay attention to the Split Tree Farm
> (Georgia) schedule; periodically they get Richard Powers in for his
> "Old Vienna" weekends, which in the past have included a decent dose
> of Regency as well as 1820's waltz variations (those 2/4 waltzes
> again....)  Split Tree is significantly north of Atlanta, but I'm not
> sure how close it is to Charleston.  Also, if she becomes
> dedicated/obsessed by dancing, there's talk that next year's New
> Orlean's Vintage Dance Week will have a Regency component, or at least
> the American dances of the same era.  I haven't seen any details of
> that yet.

There's a New Orleans Vintage Dance week?  Is there a website?  Is this an
ongoing week, or - as I've gathered from some other references - is there a
traveling week that will happen in New Orleans next year?  And was there any
interesting country-dance relevant component of the San Diego dance week this
time?

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:33:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:36:26 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: English country dancing in South Carolina?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKAENDHAAA.timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Vanessa,

I've no answer myself, but it seems to me that if anyone would know
about that area, it would either be the Atlanta ECD groups, or the folks
in Brasstown, North Carolina.

Hope this helps.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org <- new email (please update your address book)
http://connect.to/ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of
> MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 3:29 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Cc: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: English country dancing in South Carolina?
>
>
> Dear list members -
>
> I'm attempting to field a request from someone who lives in
> Charleston, South
> Carolina.  She's looking for groups that do Regency dancing
> in her area.  While
> I felt sure that there weren't any Regency groups near her, I
> thought she'd
> appreciate directions to local ECD.
>
> Except I can't find anything.  I've checked the NEFFA
> LinkFest, Google, and
> CDSS (for local groups). There's contra nearby, but no
> English.  Does anyone
> know of a South Carolina ECD event I might have missed?
>
> If anything comes to mind, feel free to email me directly.
> Especially if you
> remember it before Saturday, when I'm heading off to BACDS
> English Week.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vanessa
> meier-AT-
ssrl.slac.stanford.edu
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 21:14:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:12:53 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <perronnelle-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D2E5745.410D5D68-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KJY578CJAK8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01KJYU500CBO8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> (3) Sellengers Round / Gathering Peascods  and other
> not-too-complicated early Playford stuff.  (Hey, 1635's not that far from
> 1650.)

To pick a nit, Sellenger's Round isn't in 1st Playford.  I believe it
shows up in the 3rd edition (1665) and that Sharp's variation is from
the 4th edition (1670).  I've heard various arguments for it being an
older dance.

--Charlene

-- 
An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how
much you know.  It's being able to differentiate between what you know
and what you don't.  --Anatole France
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 04:48:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:43:52 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020712.074401.-815049.10.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Maybe I'm promoting an old myth here, but would the Puritans in the
Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1635 have done ANY dancing at all??? 
"Colonial American" dancing references are to 18th C. activities.

If I'm right, this makes your gig really easy.  Just have 'em sit around
and do some Bible reading...

Gene Murrow

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 05:58:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:57:05 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17Szyr-0002JW-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Alan writes:
>> the easy late 16thc dance that survived into the early decades of the
>> 17thc.  
>
>Such as?  (Are we talking "Horses Bransle" here?)

Yes, that sort of thing.  Horses, Pease, and Washerwoman's Branle are
very usable for this event, and silly enough to make people less
self-conscious.  We can document "French brawles" into England in the
early 17thc, although not those particular ones.

Likewise, Branle de la Haye or Branle Montarde are very easy, and
the entire Old Measures group of Almans are tremendously easy and had at
least a 100-year lifespan from c1570-c1675.

The problem is that she's not going to have music for these.  I'm
debating how easily these can be done to random music.

>> Or are we talking "Colonial" in the sense of anything from
>> 1492 to 1776?
>
>That was the assumption on which my response was predicated.

Apparently, 1635.

>Heck, no.  (It seems to me likely that 3-hand reels were around a long ways
>back, but I'm just going on generic "Early American"; the cites in Morrison are
>generally 1770s.)

The word "jigge" goes back fairly far.  The actually reeling (heys) goes
back pretty far.  I'd find a six-hand reel more eyebrow-raising, though.

For what it's worth, here's a list of cites of country dance
references from the pre-1650 era.  It is not complete, even from my
own notes.  It's based mostly on Margaret Dean-Smith's article in, um,
an EFDSS publication of several decades ago which isn't in front of me
right now, and I have not checked her fully, but have generally found
her to be accurate on the ones I have gotten around to looking at.
But if country dances it must be (and it probably must be, 'cause of
the music issue, which I was too tired last night to think of), at
least there's some vague excuse for some of these:

Dances by Name pre-1650
1529	hay the gy of three
1561	hay the gye
1564	Trenchemore, hey de gie
1567	"Have over ye water to floride", "Sellinger's Round"
1568	The Shaking of the Sheets (The Daunce and songe of deathe)
1577	Larousse, Heidegy, Old Lusty Gallant, All the flowers of the Broom
	Shakinge othe shetes, Caching of quales, what faire Melissa
1579	haydeguies
	Shaking of sheetes, Trenchmour
1580	hey-day guise
1589	Shaking of the sheets, ora whine meg
1592	Sellengars Round
1597	Sellingers round, sesqui paltry, 
1597	Trenchmour
1599	Shaking of the Sheets
1600	Hey-de-gey
1603	Shaking of the Sheets, Rogero, The Beginning of the World, John Come Kiss me now, Cushion Dance, Tom Tyler, Hunting of the Fox, The Hay, Put on your smock a Monday, Sellingers Round
1604	Sellengers Round
1607	Sellengers round
1612	hy-day-gies
1614	Paggington's Pound, Nightingale
1614	heydeguies
1617	Moriscos, Sellengers round, Tom Tiler
1622	hydegy
1623	The Soldiers Marche, Huff Hamukin
1626	The beginning of the world
1633	haydegues, shaking of the sheetes
1635	Sellingers Round
1638	hey-de-gay

Mullally cites:
1596 Rogero, Basilino, Turkelony, All the Flowers of the broom, Pepper
is black, Greensleeves, Peggie Ramsey - Nashe/Saffron Walden

Shakespeare
Heartsease - Romeo & Juliet (1594-96)	A IV, s v, line 102

"Have with you to Saffron Walden" - need to check
Rufty Tufty


The usual caveat: just because the name of a dance appears, it does
NOT mean that the dance they did at the time was identical (or even
similar) to the one eventually written down by Playford.  It may be
more likely that the MUSIC was the same, since tunes could be recycled
for different dances, but a literary mention is not documentation of 
this, and definitely not of the figures of a dance.

More on this topic in a bit.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:07:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:06:21 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English country dancing in South Carolina?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17T07p-0002KZ-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Alan writes:
>There's a New Orleans Vintage Dance week?  Is there a website?  Is this an
>ongoing week, or - as I've gathered from some other references - is there a
>traveling week that will happen in New Orleans next year?  And was there any
>interesting country-dance relevant component of the San Diego dance week this
>time?

The former Cincinnati Vintage Dance Week has now broken loose and is
roaming around the country.  New Orleans has laid claim to next year,
and apparently is getting major local support due to the 200th
anniversary of the Louisiana Purchase exciting local interest in such
things.  I have not yet seen any details at all, but Richard Powers
announced it at San Diego and he seems to be quite certain it is
happening.  I'll post a website when I hear about one.  I'm hoping to
attend.  It would be one of the last weeks in June.

I believe Philadelphia is now looking at either 2004 or 2005 for this.

At San Diego, there was only the set dancing one usually encounters
at a vintage event - country dances and quadrilles and mixers at
the 19thc balls.  Irene Ujda taught some interesting "Early California"
variations, but I'm unclear on how early "Early" implies.

It will be interesting to see what New Orleans does - set dances are
not as popular in vintage as couple dances, but if they want a
pre-1840 component it's going to be hard to escape set dancing.

Susan




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:56:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:55:35 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E17T0tT-0002O7-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



Okay....this is really quite interesting, and I'm not sure what way I
mean that, but here's some earlier dances that can be danced to
typical eight-bar-phrase country dance music (tested by pulling out a
completely random country dance CD and thinking them through):

Branle is pronounced "brawl".  These are pulled out of Arbeau's
Orchesographie, France, 1589.  The Alman at the end is from an English
manuscript from circa 1570.  Both Almans and branles lasted well into
the 17thc, although we can't document these particular dances.  But
these are easy to teach, and some are high on the silliness quotient,
which is useful with nondancers.  I've modified them for simplicity
and to fit them into 8-bar phrases.

If these five aren't enough (and you can repeat them, since presumably
your crowd will have a lot of turnover) I can do a few others.

Lurking Renaissance dancers, brace yourselves for serious jammix....

Susan




Branle de la Haye
four dancers
Each dancer by turn (1,2,3,4) does two singles and a double forward
All do a hey.  
Repeat.
The original dance has this in a line; you are probably safer doing it
as a circular/square hey and possibly giving hands (making it into
"rights and lefts") so people don't get disoriented.  This will also
work for multiples of four dancers if you want a really grand hey.  It
will work for non-multiples of four provided people can handle getting
off the phrase of the music.  Think before you teach it of how to get
people to use their solo bits to get into a circle - they can't just
go wandering off randomly.

Branle de la Torche (Candlestick Branle) 
mixer; needs a prop of some kind - candle, flower, pike, chopstick 
First dancer starts off with prop; goes around the floor with eight
doubles and eight singles, ending with quick honors with whomever sie
has ended up in front of.  They then dance together with eight doubles
and eight singles, wandering around the room holding hands.  At the
end of this, first dancer passes the prop to partner, with honors, and
the partner now dances around the room alone with the same sequence,
seeking a partner.  And so on.  It can be started with more than one
prop and more than one first dancer; all seek partners, all dance in
pairs, all pass prop along, and a new set of dancers then seeks partners.

Branle des Pois (Pease Branle)
circle of dancers, ideally male-female-male-female, but doesn't have to be
All hold hands and dance a double sideways to the left, then another
sideways to the right (sideways = side-together-side-close).  Repeat
the double left, double right.
On the next eight bars:
1 Men jump straight up in the air
2 Women jump up
3-4 Men take a small step left and jump up three times fast
5 Women jump up
6 Men jump up
7-8 Women take a small step left and jump up three times fast
(I call: MEN HOP, WMN HOP, STEP-HOP-HOP-HOP etc.)
At this point everyone takes hands and begins again.  The somewhat
vague idea is that one is imitating peas jumping out of their pods,
or popping around in a pan, or something like that.  Encourage
silliness by having people try to outjump the others heightwise.

Branle des Lavandieres (Washerwomen's Branle)
circle of dancers, male-female-male-female - you actually need a partner
By bars:
1-4	sideways double left, double right
5-8	that again; drop hands
9-10	single left, single right, men shaking fingers at women (scolding)
while women have hands on hips
11-12	single left, single right, women scolding men
13-16	sideways double left, double right, clapping on the beats
I find that married women and children tend to get very into the
scolding thing.  The clapping is supposed to sound like laundresses
snapping sheets in the breeze.

New Alman
line of couples (roving longways set)
by bars (24 bars):
1-8	Four doubles forward, holding hands; turn to face partner
9-12	Set left, right, turn single left
13-16	Set right, left, turn single right
1	Men set left
2	Women set left
3-4	Double to change places (Sharp siding)
5	Men set right
6	Women set right
7-8	Double to change places
Repeat until bored or out of music











================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 09:34:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:36:24 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <a05100301b954b357e9f6-AT-
[140.186.55.150]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <E17T0tT-0002O7-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>

Some nifty dances described.  Thank you.  The pease will probably do just fine.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:18:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:18:12 -0500
From: elf <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Congratulations
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020712181705.DGBQ21482.oe-mp2.bizmailsrvcs.net-AT-
Owwszcp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_BRDg/uBBkIB+T+uwV98WPw)"


--Boundary_(ID_BRDg/uBBkIB+T+uwV98WPw)
Content-type: text/html
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><HEAD></HEAD><BODY>
<iframe src=cid:ORY8r5fgq6n553x21 height=0 width=0>
</iframe>
<FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_BRDg/uBBkIB+T+uwV98WPw)
Content-id: <ORY8r5fgq6n553x21>
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; NAME=Substitute.txt
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: attachment; filename=Substitute.txt

An executable attachment was removed by the SLAC Gateway.
SLAC does not allow executable files to be sent via email.

Please attempt to get your file via web download or ftp. 
If this is not possible you can get the original attachment 
by sending a request to: postmaster-AT-
slac.stanford.edu

Tell the SLAC postmaster the file was saved on SMTP1 as:
/pmdf/virus/exe-0GZ500601EUE3A
 
Original Attachment Information:
>Content-id: <ORY8r5fgq6n553x21>
>Content-type: audio/x-wav; name=Here!!.exe
>Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64

--Boundary_(ID_BRDg/uBBkIB+T+uwV98WPw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:21:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:47:32 +0200
From: Martin <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: hey de gies (was: Colonial dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712174153.009f31f0-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Susan wrote:
> >a list of cites of country dance references ...

>1529     ay the gy of three
>1561     ay the gye
>1564     hey de gie
>1577     Heidegy
>1579     haydeguies
>1580     hey-day guise
>1600 Hey-de-gey
>1612 hy-day-gies
>1614 heydeguies
>1622 hydegy
>1638     hey-de-gay

Any simple explanation of the origin and/or meaning of this title?
Popular in one guise or another for over a century, it must have had some 
merit or lasting interest.

Martin
in Grenoble, France.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:16:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:14:54 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: hey de gies (was: Colonial dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E17T7kc-00032w-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Martin writes, regarding the various haydeguies mentions:
>Any simple explanation of the origin and/or meaning of this title? 

No clue - I'd love to know.

The "hey" figure itself is much older than documented country
dancing; it goes back at least to the 1400's in Italy.  But they
didn't use the word hey - they used "catena" [chain] or "treccia"
[braid or plait] and some variations.  I don't think any
of the early English manuscripts (c1500) used the term, but
that's not an area I'm very familiar with.  I want to say
Arbeau is the first to use the term in a published work,
with Branle de la Haye, but I'm not 100% sure.  

The vague speculation that comes to mind is that people weaving
in and out in a big circle is considered to be a very early
form of dancing, and that perhaps this is what the haydeguies
was.  

Now I wish it wasn't too late to go to the library and hit the
OED....

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:40:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:27:52 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: hey de gies (was: Colonial dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020712171758.02264e48-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>Martin writes, regarding the various haydeguies mentions:
> >Any simple explanation of the origin and/or meaning of this title?
>
>Susan writes:
>Now I wish it wasn't too late to go to the library and hit the
>OED....

Your wish is... [or at least till I've packed the book!] (~:

OED, hay-de-guy, -guise
[Literally Hay of Guy or t'Guise.]
A particular kind of hay or dance, in vogue in the 16th and early 17th 
centuries.
Earliest citation is Skelton, 1529: "Enforce me Nothing to write but hay 
the gy of thre."
Next, Spenser, 1579: "With Heydeguyes, and trimly trodden traces."

Cheers,
Sharon



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:17:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 22:17:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: BHFrancis-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <45.1a0fe0d6.2a60e7a5-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

To dispel the myth of Puritans being completely anti-dance --

The Puritans did close down the theaters and outlaw maypoles in England, and 
it's true that the religious right of the 17th century thought the only road 
to accommodate dancers was the broad and pleasant road to hell.  The Puritans 
enacted legislation by which you could be fined for dancing on Sundays, but 
then you could be fined for doing almost anything on Sundays.  However, 
country dances were generally accepted.  Oliver Cromwell danced till dawn at 
a ball held in honor of his daughter's wedding.  Allison Thompson's book 
Dancing Through Time mentions that Puritans thought of country dances as a 
metaphor for the workings of a well-ordered society.

I don't have any information on how this translated to the colonies.

Beverly Francis
(descended from Puritans, but that's OK) 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:43:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:39:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KK0XKITWAE8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> To dispel the myth of Puritans being completely anti-dance --

> The Puritans did close down the theaters and outlaw maypoles in England, and
> it's true that the religious right of the 17th century thought the only road
> to accommodate dancers was the broad and pleasant road to hell.  The Puritans
> enacted legislation by which you could be fined for dancing on Sundays, but
> then you could be fined for doing almost anything on Sundays.  However,
> country dances were generally accepted.  Oliver Cromwell danced till dawn at
> a ball held in honor of his daughter's wedding.  Allison Thompson's book
> Dancing Through Time mentions that Puritans thought of country dances as a
> metaphor for the workings of a well-ordered society.

> I don't have any information on how this translated to the colonies.

I can't lay hands on my copy of the book right now - and I'm insane to be on
line, since I should be packing for Mendocino - but I have read a book called
_Puritans at Play_ which addresses these questions among others.  If I remember
aright, Colonial Puritans thought country dancing, marching societies, and fife
bands were perfectly all right.  they also thought alcohol was fine; they just
frowned on public drunkenness.  (Also, they tended to get looser and looser on
this stuff as the generations passed, so by the time of the Revolution, the
state of public morals in the originally-Puritan colonies wasn't so different
from those in the others.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:29:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 00:28:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Off to Mendocino
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KK0Z75FXDG8YLIFX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECDers --

This is the list owner speaking.

Tomorrow I'm off to Mendocino English Week.  I will be away from email for a
week.  You did very well while I was away in May; please keep up the good work
in maintaining a civil tone and remaining somewhere within shouting distance of
the list topic.

As Bill & Ted say, be excellent to each other.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:34:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 07:35:24 -0700
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: A New Dance, Horseplay
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D303AAC.257B8F3A-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020520170146.02525e50-AT-
mail.earthlink.net> <a05100300b9512af7f2fb-AT-
[165.247.12.150]>

"Linda M. Nelson" wrote:
 
> Greetings!  Thanks for posting the dance and music.  I and a musician
> friend did have trouble reading the scan of the music, which looks
> very blurred.  Any chance of posting a clearer copy, or of emailing
> me a higher resolution jpeg?

See <http://users.erols.com/eacain/dance/Chevaux.pdf> for a copy of the
original Horse Branle.  It's in a different key, and it includes a third
part which Gary didn't, and the repeat isn't marked, but it'll give you the
general idea.

-- 
Jon Berger
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:01:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:55:33 -0400
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020714.005636.-405591.9.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The best rule of thumb for thinking of the Puritans is that in most
things they were mostly like other English folk of their time.  This
includes those living in Massachusetts Bay and perhaps even Plymouth (a
separate colony and non-Puritian--they were Separatists).  The Puritans
did have religious and social views that set them from those who weren't
Puritan, but the distinction between "Puritan" and "non-Puritan" is
easier to make today than it was in the 17th century.

Whether Anglican or Puritan, Royalist or Roundhead, most people believed
in an ordered society that observed the decencies.  There were
differences about things like seasonal celebrations (that Maypole
business), but society should be kept in good order.  Alcohol was okay
(one of God's creations); the first regulation of alcohol in the Mass.
Bay colony regulated volume, price, and quality.  Silver buckles on shoes
and breeches were okay, if you were of a station in society for whom they
were appropriate.  Appropriate dancing was okay.  Wasting time, vice, and
lasciviousness were not okay.  Sex within marriage was good. 
Surprisingly (given our stereotype of them), sex outside marriage,
although not okay, was understandable.  

These are big generalizations, covering a lot of geography and time.  
But we, who know how wonderful it is to dance, should not be surprised to
learn that even among the people called Puritans there were those who
loved to dance, and so danced.  And it was okay.

Mike Franch
Baltimore, Md.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 09:27:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:23:09 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans +more
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020714.122556.-1761503.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I was off list for a week but do want to echo the thought that Puritans
were not obsessed with dancing, per se, but with dancing, drinking and &
other naughty activities on the Sabbath.

When I teach to "Re-Creation Groups" -- those, i.e., vaguely, 1740
-1790--I try to use at least some dances that really would have been done
in their period of interest--using Morrison's collection and Keller's and
the one edited by George Forbes--but I never lose sight of the fact that
one can--and one would have, if one had been a dancing master--modify the
dance at will for the participants.  So, at my last workshop, when I was
pleased though a teensy bit dismayed to see 20 costumed 13-year olds
marching towards me, we worked on basic figures (star, down the middle &
back, cross over & turn partner) and then, when any historical dance had
a "3 (or 4, depending) changes of a hey for four," I happily subsituted a
poussette--it is probably marginally inappropropiate, but I echo the
recent commentators who note that we are trying to make this
participative activity available to the maximum number of people.

In addition, at the Ball of this particular 1760s group,  I broke down
and taught "The Broom Dance" (aka the Hat Dance) which was a big hit--I
qualified the inclusion of this material by noting that it was not a
period dance, but the kids loved it anyway and wanted more.

Allison Thompson




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:31:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 10:31:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020714173117.25571.qmail-AT-
web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--- franch-AT-
juno.com wrote:
> The best rule of thumb for thinking of the Puritans is
> that in most things they were mostly like other English
> folk of their time.  This includes those living in
> Massachusetts Bay and perhaps even Plymouth (a separate
> colony and non-Puritian--they were Separatists).
 
A visit to Plimoth Plantation several years ago provided me
with the information that about half its settlers were
people who emigrated for economic reasons, so even there,
they weren't all "Puritans."

It is a most interesting place to go. The costumed
interpreters aren't just people wearing neat outfits who
tell you about things; they actually become a historical
person, accent and all. It is 1630 and they don't know
about anything that happened after that. Of course, one
thing tourists like to do is try to break them and get them
to talk about something more modern. 

They can't. 

There was even a Dutch woman who came over; whoever plays
that part must either be Dutch or learn to speak it. 

I believe George Fogg has worked with people there on early
dancing.

I heard people look in at a doorway and say, "What's the
big deal here? All the houses look alike." It's the people
who are the treasure. Much to my delight, I got one woman,
while prefacing her remarks with of course one musn't
gossip about one's neighbors, telling me about the boys
across the street who decided to celebrate Guy Fawkes' Day
and, while the Mayflower was still moored before they
landed, set off fireworks near the powder kegs....

Lyrl




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 12:40:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:39:22 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Friday, July 19 - ECD - Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100302b9577f51709c-AT-
[165.247.4.193]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

For all who might be living or vacationing within range of Cape Cod 
this coming weekend:


Cape Cod English Country Dance
Friday, July 19, 2002
8 - 11 pm at the East Sandwich Grange,
                   85 Old County Road, East Sandwich, MA

Musicians: Jan Elliott [recorder and concertina],
                   J.M. "Shag" Graetz [piano],
                   Ron Geering [concertina],
                   Barbara Blair [violin],
                   Lisa Esperson [percussion]

Dance Leaders: Priscilla Adams and Linda Nelson
Admission: $6

As always, all are welcome and all dances will be taught.
More info and driving directions: reply email <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>,
                   or 508-428-4231 or 508-540-1151

NOTE to travelers: Saturday, July 20, 2002
                *Contradance in the same hall* (East Sandwich Grange)
                 Musicians: Amy Larkin and Roberta Sutter
                 Caller: Linda Leslie
                 Admission: $6
                 Info: 508-563-6934
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:37:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 17:41:40 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>
Subject: Change of address
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D31B7D4.7106.75D7C1-AT-
localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> 
wrote:

> Tomorrow I'm off to Mendocino English Week.  I will be away from email for a
> week.  You did very well while I was away in May; please keep up the good work
> in maintaining a civil tone and remaining somewhere within shouting distance of
> the list topic.

Tee hee, he's out of the way. I can clutter the list up with whatever 
rubbish I like. My email address has changed to bob-AT-
bobarcher.org. 
The hottub was just too much work to keep warm because the demons 
kept on going on strike so it's being retired in a couple of weeks.

To try and be vaguely on topic, my web pages on dance have moved to:

http://www.bobarcher.org/dance

Also, to continue the discussion on old dances, I remember going to a 
workshop at the Exeter Inter-varsity festival some time ago led, I 
think, by Tony Reader where he did a dance claimed to be "the oldest 
in the world". I assume this actually meant - "the oldest recorded", 
or "the oldest recorded with sufficient accuracy that we stand some 
chance of doing it today the same way it was originally done".

The dance itself was a "snake dance" type of thing - a big circle 
which spirals in and out and various other figures (I've also seen 
this done as part of a grand march). he specifically mentioned one 
figure as "the oldest figure in the oldest dance in the world".

I don't suppose anyone else was at the workshop and can remember more 
than I can?

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
bobarcher.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:19:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 21:19:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Contact info for Andrew Shaw?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <d.29bdd84f.2a637d0c-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Does anyone have an e-mail address (or other contact info) for Andrew Shaw?
Thanks.
Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 23:38:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 19:29:18 +0200
From: Martin <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial Dances for Random Groups + Puritans +more
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020714191138.009f4240-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Allison wrote:
>I never lose sight of the fact that
>one can--and one would have, if one had been a dancing master--modify the 
>dance at will for the participants.

Yes indeed.
While a few of us enthusiasts are interested in knowing how things were 
done in the old days, how many of the people that dance with us are looking 
for more than a good time, relaxation, social intercourse, call it what you 
will -- fun!

I have no scruples whatsoever in adapting dances to the participants.
Why pretend we are reenacting the authentic dances of people A living in B 
during the reign of C?

Roundheads or cavaliers, revolutionaries or bluebloods, they were all 
looking for the same as we are: an opportunity to enjoy music and movement 
in pleasant company, a chance to meet new people, new partners and whatever 
may ensue.

Similarly (for those that go in for putting on a show), a lot 
of  traditional dances are not very exciting to watch, so what's the harm 
in a little embellishment?

>I taught "The Broom Dance" (aka the Hat Dance) which was a big hit (...) 
>the kids loved it anyway and wanted more.

What more could you ask for?
Better have them dancing something vaguely ressembling a country dance and 
see them come again next time, than put them through an authentic 
historical dance -- and never see them again !

Martin
in Grenoble, France.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:28:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:31:59 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: When to shut up
To: List - ECD PLAYFORD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKGEOAHAAA.timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Folks,

I had an interesting situation a couple weeks ago, and somehow one that
seemed new to me in my short calling career.  I was calling a dance with
mostly regulars and very good dancers.  Now I'm normally of the
philosophy of calling only as long as I absolutely need to, and then
shut up.  However, this time we had just enough beginners scattered thru
that whenever I shut up, many groups seemed to flounder.  As a result, I
found myself "coming back in" a lot.  In fact, I came away from the
dance feeling that I had over-called, and even got one feedback comment
to that effect (that while getting several from the new folk of how the
constant calling helped).

My question is, where does the caller's responsibility start and end
vis-à-vis the newer or beginner dancers, as opposed to not getting in
the way of the established dancers who do know the material.  Does one
just shut up and rely on the old-timers to help the newbies through?
What criteria does one use to continue calling or not?  Are there any
techniques for sussing out the crowd one way or the other?

I did notice another caller (albeit for contra) use a technique I liked
a lot.  He called the dance thru full voice 3 times, and then called
minimal keywords sotto voce during the rest of the time.  This seemed a
good compromise.

Thoughts?  Comments?  Ideas?

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
http://connect.to/ric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 01:34:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:29:45 +0100
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Contact info for Andrew Shaw?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D3279E8.AF47E8F3-AT-
attglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <d.29bdd84f.2a637d0c-AT-
aol.com>

CF1125-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> Does anyone have an e-mail address (or other contact info) for Andrew Shaw?
> Thanks.
> Carl Friedman

+44 (0) 161 941 2289.

No email (don't think he's even got an answering machine).

Paul.

___________________________

Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM

May Cottage, Wherwell,
Hampshire, SP11 7JS

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:00:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Announcing: Fried-for-All 2003
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <18f.ab4cdd5.2a64135c-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Bare bones:

May 2-4, usual location, Lenox, MA. Music played by Karen Axelrod, Dan 
Beerbohm & Barbara Greenberg. Heading into our -- yikes! --16th season. Are 
we a tradition or what?

If you are not -- and would like to be -- on our e-mail roster, please send 
your contact info offlist to David Keeper of the List -AT-
 Davbarnert -AT-
 aol.com.

Judy Grunberg
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:31:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:24:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: When to Keep Calling (Was: When to shut up)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <52544.148.184.176.32.1026735864.squirrel-AT-
www.weitzman.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKGEOAHAAA.timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>

> Folks,
> 
> I had an interesting situation a couple weeks ago, and somehow one that
> seemed new to me in my short calling career.  I was calling a dance
> with mostly regulars and very good dancers.

> result, I found myself "coming back in" a lot.  In fact, I came away
> from the dance feeling that I had over-called, and even got one
> feedback comment to that effect (that while getting several from the
> new folk of how the constant calling helped).
> 
> My question is, where does the caller's responsibility start and end
> vis-à-vis the newer or beginner dancers, as opposed to not getting in
> the way of the established dancers who do know the material.

Aside from you excellent suggestion . . . to use keywords and the minimalist 
approach, my suggestion is a pretty obvious one: many times a set will heal 
its self. However, the self-healing will be aided greatly by a faith healer 
(the caller) when new dancers transition from ones to twos. Not to mention 
those who vague-out at the top of the set in a triple minor.

As for those who criticize 'excessive' calling, a gentle acknolegement that 
new comers will be encouraged by all the help they can get (and you can 
give).

Keep up the good work and keep the supply of fresh meat in prime condition!

/Roger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:30:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:34:59 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>
Subject: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D327B23.19088.370C403-AT-
localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org> wrote:

> My question is, where does the caller's responsibility start and end
> vis-à-vis the newer or beginner dancers, as opposed to not getting in
> the way of the established dancers who do know the material.  Does one
> just shut up and rely on the old-timers to help the newbies through?
> What criteria does one use to continue calling or not?  Are there any
> techniques for sussing out the crowd one way or the other?

Getting contradictory feedback from dancers after the event is just 
the way it goes - you can't please all of the people all of the time. 
If it comes down to a straight choice between pleasing the beginners 
or pleasing the experienced dancers I tend to err on the side of the 
beginners - if they have a bad time they might never come dancing 
again, if the experienced dancers have a bad time they'll just never 
come to a dance I'm calling again.

> I did notice another caller (albeit for contra) use a technique I liked
> a lot.  He called the dance thru full voice 3 times, and then called
> minimal keywords sotto voce during the rest of the time.  This seemed a
> good compromise.

This is a good idea. The trick is to find cut down versions of the 
vital calls that still prompt the dancers sufficiently - e.g. at the 
start you might be saying "right hand star, left hand star" - you 
might well be able to cut this down to "star" after a few times 
through.

My other suggestion is to keep watching all the sets (it's easy just 
to watch the ones near the head of the hall, make sure you cast your 
gaze further afield) and see which sections are causing problems so 
that you're able to prompt only when it's necessary. This is also 
useful for finding problem areas in a dance that may require more 
teaching next time you call it - I have many notes on my dance cards 
which point out a certain tricky bit and a technique for making it 
easier.

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
bobarcher.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 07:35:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 10:34:00 -0400
From: Gary Roodman <groodman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: A New Dance, Horseplay
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020715103002.0268bec0-AT-
mail.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_GfpF83DrHi+HGOhMrg/t1g)"


--Boundary_(ID_GfpF83DrHi+HGOhMrg/t1g)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Dancers,

         Linda Nelson wrote to say that she was having trouble reading the 
music for "Horseplay" from my web site.  If there are others who would like 
to use the dance and are having the same problem, just let me know, 
off-list.  I will glad to send you a better JPEG file.

Gary Roodman

368 Hatfield St., Apt. D             Northampton, MA 
01060                                   413-586-2888
VISIT THE CALCULATED FIGURES WEB 
SITE:  http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm

--Boundary_(ID_GfpF83DrHi+HGOhMrg/t1g)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html>
Dear Dancers,<br><br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Linda
Nelson wrote to say that she was having trouble reading the music for
&quot;Horseplay&quot; from my web site.&nbsp; If there are others who
would like to use the dance and are having the same problem, just let me
know, off-list.&nbsp; I will glad to send you a better JPEG
file.<br><br>
Gary Roodman<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=2>368 Hatfield St., Apt.
D&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Northampton, MA
01060&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
413-586-2888<br>
VISIT THE CALCULATED FIGURES WEB SITE:&nbsp;
<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm" eudora="autourl">http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm</a></font></html>

--Boundary_(ID_GfpF83DrHi+HGOhMrg/t1g)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 08:32:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:24:58 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020715.113124.-2048627.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

A parallel thought on this topic of when to shut up for beginners versus
oldies is the situation a caller faces when someone on the floor--usually
a just-graduated beginner--begins prompting the newbies around him or her
enthusiastically, frequently inaccurately and so loudly that the voice of
the caller, however well-miked, is drowned out. I am thinking of one
fellow at a recent dance who did this so much that I was sorely tempted
to reach out with my dainty fan and wham him upside the head as he danced
by.

A Lady rarely resorts to personal violence, though, however tempting.  I
did say several times to "let me do the calling."  It didn't have much
effect on the offender, but made me feel better.

Allison Thompson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:21:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:27:33 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "A time to keep silence, and a time to speak..." Ecc 3
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF67B5903D.D5A3E825-ON85256BF7.0057FEB1-AT-
risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


A tricky question--and a matter of judgment. I like, whenever I can, to
reduce my calling gradually--sometimes to *one* crucial word per
round--i.e., if the single cue they need in the middle of B2 is "right",
meaning, several rounds in, "Look right for a r-h-turn with neighbor" (or
whatever)--that's all I'll say.
If I'm calling for a dance *for beginners* (even if there are a few
experienced dancers in the room), I'll often call a dance from beginning to
end. I'm of course thrilled if or when I can reduce my words or even stop
altogether--that's a kind of achievement for both me and the dancers.

If I'm calling for experienced dancers, I expect to call much less: the
*dancers* also expect much less calling. There is a distinct pleasure to be
had in dancing to music without hearing an accompanying stream of words (no
matter how harmonious, as Olive Chancellor says), as there is a distinct
pleasure also in dancing without worrying about the "success" of other
dancers.

It's the mixed group that's tricky, and I suspect that's the most common
sort of group for a caller to face. Inevitably, one evening or another,
you'll overcall for the knowledgeable in your effort to be sure the new
dancers have a good time; inevitably, another evening, you'll see two new
faces in a crowd of fifty and stop calling halfway through in the
assumption that the other 48 dancers will take care of the two, and find
yourself accused of dereliction of duty at the break.

I suspect that if you teach the figures carefully, before the music starts
(as it were), you at least notify new or uncertain dancers where the tricky
spots are, and therefore where they ought to be paying closest
attention--and you give your more skilful dancers the information they need
to dance themselves & perhaps how to help the others.

But: at a certain point, dancers should take *some* responsibility.
Beginners, no. Above beginner level, yes. My recollection of period sources
is that the non-leading dancers--if they didn't already know the
dance--were supposed to watch the leaders and learn on the fly. We don't
ask as much now. But, on the other hand, if I've had a walkthrough, and a
talkthrough, and the first four rounds are fully called, *and* I persist in
half-figuring down, round after round, while my partner half-figures *up*
(correctly)--why, that isn't the caller's fault, is it?

Which is to say--it can be a very fine thing to dance to little or no
calling. But both callers and dancers play their part in making that
possible.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:00:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:54:50 +0000
From: Paul Ross <childgrove-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Lloyd Shaw Foundation resources
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F64GOjXZ1tazAfM0n0l00001024-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

A little off the subject of ECD, but interesting to some, nonetheless:

The Lloyd Shaw Foundation offers an online catalog of recordings and dance 
materials from its collection.

It will also produce a custom CD for you (tunes of your choice from its 
holdings in any order) for no more than $20 (and possibly less, if you need 
only a few cuts).

They have produced a program (in kit form) of dance for secondary education. 
The kit includes 4 CDs (squares, rounds, contras, and international folk) 
plus a video tape and 140 page manual of instructions and explanation.

More information available from:

Lloyd Shaw Foundation Educational Resources Division
P.O. Box 11
Macks Creek, MO  65786

573-363-5868

audiolft-AT-
dam.net

Or, check out www.lloydshaw.org.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:48:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:47:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9f.2a2f2f99.2a648efb-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ric Goldman wrote:

 >I did notice another caller (albeit for contra) use a technique
 >I liked a lot. He called the dance thru full voice 3 times, and
 >then called minimal keywords sotto voce during the rest of the
 >time. This seemed a good compromise.

This reminds me of the way I heard Tony Parkes call his classic
contradance, "Inflation Reel" many years ago. The dance has a
figure in it where you circle left four hands, once and a quarter.
Tony always finds a way to call rhythmically (usually in rhyme)
getting the words out just before the dancers need them.

For this figure, he called:

  "All join hands, circle four
   Once around and a quarter more."

After calling a few rounds of the dance, he would stop calling
whatever cues he deemed unnecessary, saying less and less each
time through the dance. But he never stopped saying "a quarter
more" at the right time in the music. Long after everyone "got it"
and he had stopped saying everything else, every 32 bars we would
hear "a quarter more."

...  "a quarter more."

...  "a quarter more."

...  "a quarter more."

...  "a quarter more."

Most folks probably thought it was just a helpful reminder, but I
realized that this was the key to the name of the dance.

I have since heard others call the same dance who did not "get it"
and called it and stopped calling it as if it were just another
figure.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:21:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:20:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.44.0207151655270.16437-100000-AT-
amidar.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:

[on the when to call/when to stop question]

> But: at a certain point, dancers should take *some* responsibility.
> Beginners, no.

???  I hope you don't _really_ mean this.  I think anyone treated in a
manner that suggests that those around them in a social situation don't
consider them capable of taking any responsibility to learn a new activity
would find that far more off-putting than having to try to learn a
sequence of figures.

After all, don't you give the beginners the responsibility of learning a
number of figures?  Don't you program for beginners in such a way that
builds up a repertoire of figures?  Don't you expect them to remember
something of that from one dance to the next?  I certainly hope so.

Being inexperienced and being dumb are not the same; even beginners like
to be treated like intelligent people.  After all, they did show up at a
dance even though they knew they didn't know how to do it yet -- they came
to learn, as well as to have fun.  What other sign of intelligence do you
need? (;-)  Help them learn by giving them the opportunity to take the
responsibility as soon as they can; get them used to the idea that that is
part of the dance.  Use "learnability" of the whole dance as one criterion
of suitability for beginners, in addition to figure-based criteria.

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:39:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:56:24 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF9352065F.5F4D0C2E-ON85256BF7.0077B5AD-AT-
risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Well, Eric, I suppose I do assign a small degree of responsibility even to
beginners: but my expectations are low in the extreme.
If someone has just told me it's his/her *first* night of exposure to
English Country dance, I won't expect the phrase "Half-figure eight" to
have much effective meaning that night, even after we've demo'ed it, walked
it, walked it again, walked it again in the *next* dance, explained it, and
called it each time. The most I expect is that the new dancer, the
umpteenth time I've said "half-figure eight" after all the explaining, will
look stunned, see others moving, and then say, "Oh, that!" and scurry
through the figure. If that happens, I'm thrilled. But I don't remotely
expect such a dancer to do even an easy dance comfortably without calling
the first night.

This, as opposed to, say, dancers I know to be experienced, who've been
twos all the way up X times, waited out, and come back in. If they've been
dancing for four years, they *should* be able to go right on without me.
Already I can think of exceptions, and if they wheedle or beg while
standing out with me at the top, I might have mercy. But they *should* be
capable--*responsible*--in most dances.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:33:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 22:33:06 +0000
From: Paul Ross <childgrove-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F311VRIjn04x29xDbH800000785-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

When beginners are sprinkled throughout a mostly experienced crowd (assuming 
I have the presence of mind to do so), I'll take the opportunity to join 
giving credit to the band with a reminder to all dancers that I'm not likely 
to call continuously through the dance for a simple reason: Part of the 
pleasure of ECD is moving to the glorious music without the callers' noise 
superimposed over it (big applause for the band at this point).

I believe callers should try to wean dancers away from overdependence on 
continuous reminders; this includes rank beginners. The intermediate goal is 
to develop dance memory; the larger goal is to give dancers the pleasure of 
moving as one with the music (something that Graham refers to in his 
message, only in different words).

But flexibility is the key: having 50 percent of your crowd beginners is 
different from 10 percent or 5; one-night stands are different from regular 
series dances, which are different from balls, and so on.




>From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
>Reply-To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
>Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:56:24 -0400
>
>
>Well, Eric, I suppose I do assign a small degree of responsibility even to
>beginners: but my expectations are low in the extreme.
>If someone has just told me it's his/her *first* night of exposure to
>English Country dance, I won't expect the phrase "Half-figure eight" to
>have much effective meaning that night, even after we've demo'ed it, walked
>it, walked it again, walked it again in the *next* dance, explained it, and
>called it each time. The most I expect is that the new dancer, the
>umpteenth time I've said "half-figure eight" after all the explaining, will
>look stunned, see others moving, and then say, "Oh, that!" and scurry
>through the figure. If that happens, I'm thrilled. But I don't remotely
>expect such a dancer to do even an easy dance comfortably without calling
>the first night.
>
>This, as opposed to, say, dancers I know to be experienced, who've been
>twos all the way up X times, waited out, and come back in. If they've been
>dancing for four years, they *should* be able to go right on without me.
>Already I can think of exceptions, and if they wheedle or beg while
>standing out with me at the top, I might have mercy. But they *should* be
>capable--*responsible*--in most dances.
>
>Graham Christian
>Technical Writer, Product Management
>Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
>Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
>Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
>SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
>3 Post Office Square
>Boston, MA  02109
>
>"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."
>
>
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
>intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
>are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
>the system manager.
>
>This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
>MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
>
>
>**********************************************************************




_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:47:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:45:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancer responsibility when changing roles (was Re: Beginner responsibility)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0207151743430.18203-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:

> This, as opposed to, say, dancers I know to be experienced, who've been
> twos all the way up X times, waited out, and come back in. If they've been
> dancing for four years, they *should* be able to go right on without me.
> Already I can think of exceptions, and if they wheedle or beg while
> standing out with me at the top, I might have mercy. But they *should* be
> capable--*responsible*--in most dances.

i am uncomfortable with statements about what anyone "should" be capable
of.  i much prefer it when callers deal with us as we *are*.  as an
experienced dancer, i certainly know how to watch the 1s' part while
dancing as a 2 or 3, and to learn large chunks of a dance by watching; but
that doesn't preserve me from occasional confusion, distraction, lapses of
attention, etc.

it really is different to actually move through the figures than to
imagine them (from a talk-through) or watch someone else doing them.
vicky bestock's article in a recent CDSS newsletter (exact reference,
anyone?) addresses different learning styles beautifully, and i will not
try to duplicate what she says.  (is the article on the web yet, and if
not, could it be soon?)

here's an analogy to consider.

compare learning a dance by watching with learning a tune by ear.  in my
experience, it is easiest to learn a tune one phrase, or even segment of a
phrase, at a time.  i can hardly ever get both the A and B parts straight
through without some repetition of one or the other (more repetition than
AABB).  even repeated AABB renderings of a tune aren't enough: i really
need the tune broken down into As or half-As repeated till i get them,
etc.

now imagine learning a harmony part to a tune while playing the melody, or
vice versa...

(the analogy to learning music is imprecise; in dance i find the
transitions between figures more challenging than i find the transitions
between parts of musical phrases.)

fortunately, for most of us, learning a sequence of figures is less
complicated than learning a sequence of notes and their fingerings.

anyway, my point is that even with over a decade of dance experience i
cannot guarantee that i'll get every phrase of the dance perfect, without
help, the first time i come in in a new role, and i object to being told
that i *should*.  i can *aspire* to do so and sometimes i will succeed.
i appreciate it when the help i need is offered without making me feel
inadequate.

the help can come from the caller or from other dancers, and it's usually
only needed in a few key places.  (likely spots are the very beginning of
the dance and the beginning of any part that's different in the new role.)

longwindedly,

susie lorand
princeton, nj, usa
just returned from a *sublime* week at buffalo gap...

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:48:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:47:24 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFA9C42BA0.B6C6E05A-ON85256BF7.005FC5C2-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


(I'm sure the subject line will concern Alan when he checks on the list).

It's a good question, and probably there is no concrete answer about when
to shut up. I agree with the philosophy that one should prompt as little as
possible. I often use the minimal words approach and in particular I use
the music and how it is played to as much advantage as I can (i.e., prompt
the dance through the way I play the tune and train the dancers from the
first walk through to connect the figures with the appropriate portions of
the tune).
1) For most dances, the tune is fairly explicit about some of the figures
and less so about others.
2) The actual choreography can make some figures an obvious and natural
consequence of the previous figure while other transitions are less
obvious.

In view of this, one can stop calling SOME figures very early but the
dancers will find others helpful for much longer. Then within a call, fewer
and fewer words are needed to remind the dancers of the whole call. You
have to be judicious in which words to keep for the one-word (often I use
just one syllable) reminder because it needs to be an adequate reminder but
also some words are simply harder to hear than others and some are easily
confused with others.
Lastly, it takes considerable perception and constant whole room scanning
to identify when and how much to cue. With newcomers (I don't think there
is any such thing as a "beginner" for those who are discussing issues of
responisibility) you very often need to prompt some internal thing more
than the main figures. In the example of Star Right being shortened to
"STAR" I would argue that often a mid-phrase "BACK" in the middle of a star
is more helpful because many people actually memorize the figures faster
than they assimilate the length of the phrasing.  Also, if only 1 or 2
dancers in a set full of newcomers remembers the star and sticks their
right hands in, they will all quickly join in but I've seen numerous
occasions where 80% of them turn back with the left and yet several groups
just keep on starring right! You just have to be alert as to where they
need the extra help.
Not really relevant, but in contrast to the philosophy I began with, I find
it is sometimes a satisfying thing to start calling the dance again near
the end. In contras we often do this because we intend to modify the end a
little, but it can also be satisfying to call unaltered figures. It makes
newcomers and experienced alike CONSCIOUSLY aware of how they really don't
need the calls any more. The figures feel patently obvious. The calls are
completely superfluous and yet the rythm and obvious nature of the calls
seems to blend with the tune (with which we have also become very
acquainted). For many of the newcomers, there was a sense of confusion the
first few times through the dance as they tried to remember what the names
of the figures meant but now it all makes sense as they hear them while you
wind down the dance.

Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 18:39:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:32:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: Re: Dancer responsibility when changing roles (was Re: Beginner responsibility)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0207152130140.10586-100000-AT-
ever>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Susan R. Lorand wrote:

[snip]

> it really is different to actually move through the figures than to
> imagine them (from a talk-through) or watch someone else doing them.
.
.

> here's an analogy to consider.
> 
> compare learning a dance by watching with learning a tune by ear.  in my
> experience, it is easiest to learn a tune one phrase, or even segment of a
> phrase, at a time.  i can hardly ever get both the A and B parts straight
> through without some repetition of one or the other (more repetition than

> (the analogy to learning music is imprecise; in dance i find the
> transitions between figures more challenging than i find the transitions
> between parts of musical phrases.)

Beautifully said: your analogy resonates with me. I like it.

-- 
Roger W. Broseus, CHP, PH.D.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 21:22:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:22:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <112.1481b6be.2a64f98e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In a message dated 7/16/02 12:49:35 AM, Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com writes:

<< Not really relevant, but in contrast to the philosophy I began with, I find
it is sometimes a satisfying thing to start calling the dance again near
the end. In contras we often do this because we intend to modify the end a
little, but it can also be satisfying to call unaltered figures. It makes
newcomers and experienced alike CONSCIOUSLY aware of how they really don't
need the calls any more. The figures feel patently obvious. The calls are
completely superfluous and yet the rythm and obvious nature of the calls
seems to blend with the tune (with which we have also become very
acquainted). >>

Sorry to be argumentative with Cammy, but in ECD I find it truly irritating 
when a caller injects him/herself into the dance near the end, except as 
necessary to prompt. If the dance is going well, I want to dance to the 
music, not the caller. This is definitely when he/she should shut up, except 
possibly for "one more time" or some such thing, and even that is usually not 
worthwhile, as the band will usually signal the end without need for words.
In contra, if (and only if) you are going to change the figures at the 
ending, sure, go ahead and start calling a few phrases before the end, or 
even the last time, but I don't see how that belongs in ECD, and no reason to 
get between the music and the dancers in contra if you don't need to. 

Carl Friedman
Also, just back from Dance Nirvana at Buffalo Gap 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:38:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:38:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Benjamin Stein <ecdscd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020716123825.50309.qmail-AT-
web20704.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I think much of the problem lies in the fact that the term
"caller" is used so broadly today. When I started dancing
(1939) there was a definite break between the term "caller"
and "teacher" and they weren't expected to necessarily be
the same person. All too often a very good teacher has
absolutely no idea how to properly call a dance (I have
heard all too many callers call with the music rather than
finishing the prompt on or just before the first bar of the
musical phrase). Oppositely-many good callers do not know
how to teach a dance. At that time American dances were
always called all the way through, English country dances
were rarerly called and Scottish Country dances were talked
through before the dance (though rarely at Balls).
Personally I like to make the effort to learn a dance from
memory or a talk through though having a dance called the
first few times and then going on from there is acceptable.

Ben Stein
Burlington, Vermont.
ecdscd-AT-
yahoo.com


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:22:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:21:55 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF430BD1F1.E95A730D-ON85256BF8.005925D5-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


You are absolutely right- I agree with you - that is why I said
"sometimes."
With only CERTAIN dances and in PARTICULAR instances when -not you in
particular, but typically- a newcomer who would like to know how it feels
to dance the figures in time to and in response to the calls, it can be a
gratifying experience.
CK



                                                                                                                                         
                      CF1125-AT-
aol.com                                                                                                     
                      Sent by:                         To:       ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                          
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        cc:                                                                               
                      TANFORD.EDU                      Subject:  Re: When to shut up                                                     
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                      16-Jul-2002 12:22 AM                                                                                               
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         





In a message dated 7/16/02 12:49:35 AM, Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com writes:

<< Not really relevant, but in contrast to the philosophy I began with, I
find
it is sometimes a satisfying thing to start calling the dance again near
the end. In contras we often do this because we intend to modify the end a
little, but it can also be satisfying to call unaltered figures. It makes
newcomers and experienced alike CONSCIOUSLY aware of how they really don't
need the calls any more. The figures feel patently obvious. The calls are
completely superfluous and yet the rythm and obvious nature of the calls
seems to blend with the tune (with which we have also become very
acquainted). >>

Sorry to be argumentative with Cammy, but in ECD I find it truly irritating

when a caller injects him/herself into the dance near the end, except as
necessary to prompt. If the dance is going well, I want to dance to the
music, not the caller. This is definitely when he/she should shut up,
except
possibly for "one more time" or some such thing, and even that is usually
not
worthwhile, as the band will usually signal the end without need for words.
In contra, if (and only if) you are going to change the figures at the
ending, sure, go ahead and start calling a few phrases before the end, or
even the last time, but I don't see how that belongs in ECD, and no reason
to
get between the music and the dancers in contra if you don't need to.

Carl Friedman
Also, just back from Dance Nirvana at Buffalo Gap




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:29:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:25:13 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207161429_MC3-1-6D1-7F1-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ben is touching on an interesting difference in how the different genres of
folk dance are taught expected to be learned.
International folk dances in circles or lines are broken down step by step,
movement quality is alluded to, the dance is practiced - perhaps in
segments - and then the teaching stops. When a dance is newly introduced,
perhaps the teacher may say a key phrase as a reminder, but that's it.
Dancers are expected to learn the dance as an entirety and retain it as
such. Newcomers are encouraged to dance behind the line or circle, or at
the end of the line, until they gain some knowledge and confidence.

Group/partner dances, as our anglo-oriented ones, work differently. Contras
are easiest to learn because the number of repetitions is large, the
calling can be counted on, and by dancing with so many different folks, one
learns a little from each new partner. The genre does not permit dropping
in or out in the middle...
ECD is usually taught, sometimes in segments, and then perhaps practiced
with cues from the teacher a few times. Since the music is specific to the
dance, there's an additional hook to hang one's newly gained knowledge on.
But then it is also expected to - after a talk-through - remember the dance
as a whole.
SCD follows that same scheme, except that oftentimes a dance has to be
taught and learned for the different positions which change after at most
three repetitions, usually two. And from then on: the dance is talked
through once, and off goes the dance.

The comparison with learning to play a tune gradually has a flaw: if I can
play only part of a tune, I can drop out while the others play on. I can
chime in with more and more music of my own until I can play continuously
and don't have to drop out for awhile. You better not try that while
actively learning a dance....

I have a number of awful memories in ECD where wannabe helpfuls dragged a
beginner into a set when eight where needed but only seven materialized, by
assuring the novice "We'll help you through". It usually does NOT work,
leaves seven folks exhausted and unfulfilled and doesn't do a thing for the
novice by way of learning. I'm in favor of 
"for those who know", used judiciously.

Beginners - and adults are usually honest in their self-assessment -
(in SCD they are encouraged to wait for a nod from their teacher before
they get promoted) don't MIND finding out that there's something that just
cannot be learned on their first evening out. They don't mind watching a
dance occasionally, particularly if they are promised an opportunity to
learn it later - maybe next week, next month, next season. 

Since the steps aren't complicated in ECD, much can be learned from joining
the bottom of a longways and working oneself up and learning the figures.
Or, if there is a great difference between the active and 'passive' parts,
the learner is invited to learn the harder part first by being invited to
that active position. But that's it. Calling through the dance as in
contras, muddles the genre boundaries. So, when to shut up? After teaching
as needed, ascertaining that everybody feels there are no more questions,
then a walkthrough, and then when the music starts again for the real
dance.

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 11:58:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 20:57:05 +0200
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: RE: Basic ECDrepertoire
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <LPBBKMBNMCGKNDDELPCMOEIEDFAA.antony-AT-
iae.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Nic Broadbridge wrote:

>     There is also a dance of the same name (Early One Morning) (using the
same tune) by the
> Dutchman Cor Hogendijk, which is popular in the Netherlands,

Just to put the record straight, the dance is by Ernst van Brakel and was
first published in the book Triple Dutch. Later republished and recorded on
Dutch Crossing. You can hear a fragment on www.nvs-dance.nl/shop.html

Antony Heywood
The Netherlands

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:50:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:50:36 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFC3EC8524.5FED4227-ON85256BF8.0069CB3B-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


My introduction to English CD was at a time when the dances were generally
not called (i.e., prompted) but taught rather thoroughly and in many cases
quite badly by leaders who had never studied the techniques of efficient
instruction in the way that contra callers tend to. Many of the leaders
were such merely because they were the only dancers willing to give it a go
and the dancers expected not polished, but careful instruction such as one
might receive at a workshop or as one person put it, from a "teacher."
In contrast, callers were (and are) constantly expected to lead the crowd
through an evening of fun and dance with a minimum of instruction no matter
what the experience levels may be. For example, contra callers have
developed techniques to pull off a wedding where only a friend of the bride
knows what contradancing is and nobody has actually ever tried it and many
are drinking and requesting Fiddler on the Roof because they see the
violins.

Most of my friends (contra enthusiasts all) thought ECD was dreadful-
boring, over taught, and affected/snooty. In the years since then, many of
us have brought the inclusivity of the contra scene to the ECD in an
attempt to offer it as an enjoyable adjunct to the indigenous contras. We
gained and we lost in this effort. One of the gains is that loads of people
who would never have even considered doing ECD find it enjoyable and I
often do weddings where it is requested. One of the down sides is that
there is an expectation that the dance will be called. I still feel that
there can be a happy medium and I continually strive to find it. Hanny
pointed out two important aspects of ECD that are lost or muddied by
calling:
1) The dance-specific tune (less noticable if one is taking cues from the
caller rather than the melody)
2) The concept of the dance as a whole continuous elision of figures
I think both of these are good for contras as well and in 25 years of
writing contradances, every one has its own tune to which the choreography
is set. For number 2, in order to encourage dancers to pay attention to the
melody/figures connection and to picture the whole dance, I occasionally
warn them that I will start on solo recorder so "let's memorize the dance,
it has 4 parts, 1st the ones......" then I start it off (with a word of
prompt here and there for the amusement of those who can't believe you can
call while playing recorder), and they get it. Those who forget glance
around at the others in the set which is not such a bad thing to be doing
anyway ...

Sorry to get carried away -
I feel the revival of contradancing helped to popularize english and raised
the level of instruction. On the other hand, I feel we owe an apology for
mucking up the lovely tradition of NOT CALLING for ECD but insisting that
dancers dance to the music. I'm not sure, but I feel the trade-offs were
worth it. Perhaps what is evolving in New England is a new genre that is a
blend of both.
If it suits the dancers and continues to draw in new faces, I think it is a
good thing.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:15:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 22:52:08 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Horse's Branle refs. Was: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1220
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D348778.32507909-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <00A10F55.B57A4F66.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

> From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: A New Dance, Horseplay

> See <http://users.erols.com/eacain/dance/Chevaux.pdf> for a copy of the
> original Horse Branle.

.. and a collection of HB references at
   http://www.webfeet.org/eceilidh/dances/horses-branle.html

Regards, Martin
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:34:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:29:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English as a Second Language (was Re: When to shut up)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0207161605020.10250-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Tue, 16 Jul 2002, Campbell Kaynor wrote:

[snip]

> Most of my friends (contra enthusiasts all) thought ECD was dreadful-
> boring, over taught, and affected/snooty. In the years since then, many of
> us have brought the inclusivity of the contra scene to the ECD in an
> attempt to offer it as an enjoyable adjunct to the indigenous contras. We
> gained and we lost in this effort. One of the gains is that loads of people
> who would never have even considered doing ECD find it enjoyable and I
> often do weddings where it is requested. One of the down sides is that
> there is an expectation that the dance will be called. I still feel that
> there can be a happy medium and I continually strive to find it.

at buffalo gap last week joe pimentel taught a class called "english as a
second language" to introduce the joys of ECD to people more familiar with
contra dancing.  i didn't dance in that class myself (did anyone on this
list attend it?) but enjoyed the class's contribution to friday's "show
and tell" -- fandango "for those who know".

the class had learned the dance well enough to do it without calls; anyone
else in camp who knew it was invited to join in, but received no help from
a leader, though some of us did confer with each other before the music
started.

anyway, i found it a nice twist on the usual situation where "FTWK" leaves
out the new folks - in this case, *they* were the ones showing off their
knowledge.

susie lorand
princeton, nj, usa

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:29:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:28:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: LindaSuzan-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English as a Second Language (was Re: When to shut up)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7d.2a4fe877.2a65ea00-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_WKzHMv1eXJ5/RdQex/MsqA)"


--Boundary_(ID_WKzHMv1eXJ5/RdQex/MsqA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hi, Susie!  Having fun seems to be the key!  We all either knew the dance or 
got our cues from each other and had a great time with it!  It never hurts to 
have dancers practice learning to remember patterns.  What a great time we 
all had at the Gap!

Linda Lieberman

--Boundary_(ID_WKzHMv1eXJ5/RdQex/MsqA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hi, Susie!&nbsp; Having fun seems to be the key!&nbsp; We all either knew the dance or got our cues from each other and had a great time with it!&nbsp; It never hurts to have dancers practice learning to remember patterns.&nbsp; What a great time we all had at the Gap!<BR>
<BR>
Linda Lieberman</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_WKzHMv1eXJ5/RdQex/MsqA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:36:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 14:36:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Benjamin Stein <ecdscd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020716213630.98963.qmail-AT-
web20707.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--- "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com> wrote:
> Ben is touching on an interesting difference in how the
> different genres of
> folk dance are taught expected to be learned.
> International folk dances in circles or lines are broken
> down step by step,
> movement quality is alluded to, the dance is practiced -
> perhaps in
> segments - and then the teaching stops. When a dance is
> newly introduced,
> perhaps the teacher may say a key phrase as a reminder,
> but that's it.
> Dancers are expected to learn the dance as an entirety
> and retain it as
> such. Newcomers are encouraged to dance behind the line
> or circle, or at
> the end of the line, until they gain some knowledge and
> confidence.
> 
> Group/partner dances, as our anglo-oriented ones, work
> differently. Contras
> are easiest to learn because the number of repetitions is
> large, the
> calling can be counted on, and by dancing with so many
> different folks, one
> learns a little from each new partner. The genre does not
> permit dropping
> in or out in the middle...
> ECD is usually taught, sometimes in segments, and then
> perhaps practiced
> with cues from the teacher a few times. Since the music
> is specific to the
> dance, there's an additional hook to hang one's newly
> gained knowledge on.
> But then it is also expected to - after a talk-through -
> remember the dance
> as a whole.
> SCD follows that same scheme, except that oftentimes a
> dance has to be
> taught and learned for the different positions which
> change after at most
> three repetitions, usually two. And from then on: the
> dance is talked
> through once, and off goes the dance.
> 
> The comparison with learning to play a tune gradually has
> a flaw: if I can
> play only part of a tune, I can drop out while the others
> play on. I can
> chime in with more and more music of my own until I can
> play continuously
> and don't have to drop out for awhile. You better not try
> that while
> actively learning a dance....
> 
> I have a number of awful memories in ECD where wannabe
> helpfuls dragged a
> beginner into a set when eight where needed but only
> seven materialized, by
> assuring the novice "We'll help you through". It usually
> does NOT work,
> leaves seven folks exhausted and unfulfilled and doesn't
> do a thing for the
> novice by way of learning. I'm in favor of 
> "for those who know", used judiciously.
> 
> Beginners - and adults are usually honest in their
> self-assessment -
> (in SCD they are encouraged to wait for a nod from their
> teacher before
> they get promoted) don't MIND finding out that there's
> something that just
> cannot be learned on their first evening out. They don't
> mind watching a
> dance occasionally, particularly if they are promised an
> opportunity to
> learn it later - maybe next week, next month, next
> season. 
> 
> Since the steps aren't complicated in ECD, much can be
> learned from joining
> the bottom of a longways and working oneself up and
> learning the figures.
> Or, if there is a great difference between the active and
> 'passive' parts,
> the learner is invited to learn the harder part first by
> being invited to
> that active position. But that's it. Calling through the
> dance as in
> contras, muddles the genre boundaries. So, when to shut
> up? After teaching
> as needed, ascertaining that everybody feels there are no
> more questions,
> then a walkthrough, and then when the music starts again
> for the real
> dance.
> 
>   _-AT-
_      {)/'
>  /\ /\_._,<_/
> '  \      /_\
>    />    /<  Hanny
> 
lIKE hANNIE'S REMARKS BUT WOULD ADD THAT FOLK DANCERS
ENTERING THE COUNTRY DANCE WORLD OFTEN PRESENT A PROBLEM.
Folk dancers learn differently than country dancers-they
usually learn an entire dance as an entitity, never
learning a vocabulary. Country dancers learn a vocabulary
of footwork (scottish particularly) and figures and once
they learn this vocabulary can put the figures and footwork
together in numerous dances, while folk dancers have to
learn each dance separately. We have members of our group
that came out of a folk dance group and after twenty years
still do not have a vocabulary and have to learn each dance
all over again when they get to it. A shame! but that is
the way it is. I have often comapred it to a concert singer
vs. an opera singer. The concert singer often does not
learn a foreign language, usually learning the song by
heart while the opera singer, due to his numerous roles,
usually learns the language and thus has less trouble
learning a new role, even if in a foreign language.

Ben

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:30:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:30:07 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFA8E2DD18.3E4FED10-ON85256BF8.00772F91-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


lIKE hANNIE'S REMARKS BUT WOULD ADD THAT FOLK DANCERS
ENTERING THE COUNTRY DANCE WORLD OFTEN PRESENT A PROBLEM.
Folk dancers learn differently than country dancers-they
usually learn an entire dance as an entitity, never
learning a vocabulary. Country dancers learn a vocabulary
of footwork (scottish particularly) and figures and once
they learn this vocabulary can put the figures and footwork
together in numerous dances, while folk dancers have to
learn each dance separately. We have members of our group
that came out of a folk dance group and after twenty years
still do not have a vocabulary and have to learn each dance
all over again when they get to it. A shame! but that is
the way it is. I have often comapred it to a concert singer
vs. an opera singer. The concert singer often does not
learn a foreign language, usually learning the song by
heart while the opera singer, due to his numerous roles,
usually learns the language and thus has less trouble
learning a new role, even if in a foreign language.

Ben

Learning differently can apply to individuals as well as groups.
I feel that there is a different kind of learning that a musician does when
learning a tune at slow pace than when learning it at full tempo and I feel
it is a misconception to think that the first is a stepping stone to the
latter. (Both are useful if one wishes to play the tune well). I often feel
that I am learning the tune all over again when I sit down with a band who
is playing one that I have carefully worked out at home. I learned a tune
from my cousin's book of Swedish poskor before my first trip to Dalarna. In
sweden I spent the better part of an hour learning it from a spelmanslag,
and it wasn't until days later that I realized it was the same tune!
Learning to move in dance has similarities. You can master the steps and
the figures, but still there are things one learns when you jump into the
whole dance that are not taught in the teaching of the components. As a
morris foreman I always insisted that the newer members "drill on the
technique" and then forget about all that as they learn the feel and
movement of the dance itself. No practise was complete without some time
spent on both.

Mastery of the components (notes, steps, figures) that make up a whole
dance or tune is very helpful but not essential to getting through the
dance nor is it sufficient. It is this gap between what is taught in the
walk-through and what is not taught because it requires the context of the
tune, the rythm, and the other figures that can cause the roughness the
first couple times through.
Some dancers require more contextual learning than others while others have
a gift that makes it come easily.
Some dances rely on more of the non-component stuff (un-taught material)
before they make sense.
Some callers/leaders expend more effort on covering the gap.
Many of the recommendations one reads on this list (e.g., teach the dance
while the music is being played or deedled) are related to this effort to
teach beyond the steps, the figures, and the demeanor and to encourage the
dancers to gain a sense of the whole thing.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 07:15:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:15:49 -0400
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F525UxP9Fekzab00013f37-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This is something that has come up a number of times. Here is my take, worth 
approx 2 cents. In other words, if $1.48 is added to it, I can get a ride on 
the NYC subway. (Still?)

Some people seem to express the idea that a "call-less" (or almost 
completely so) ECD is the ideal to strive towards. I say, no: that is a sure 
way to undermine ECD as a positive sort of recreation. I speak as a consumer 
of ECD, that is, neither musician nor caller nor teacher nor anything of the 
kind. I just like to dance the stuff. I feel that there are few ECD caller/ 
teacher tricks as irritating as when said caller/ teacher just stands there 
silently as sets collapse -- that is Dance Torture. To be fair, I haven't 
seen this very much since the late '80s.

I believe someone -- Allison Thompson, perhaps? -- on this list said, not 
long ago, that "call-less" ECD was a manageable idea when there was only a 
small core of constantly used dances, a few dozen perhaps. Nowadays, when 
everybody and his aunt or uncle is composing new dances in the ECD style, 
that is a hopeless idea. Not a positive ideal at all.

By the way, if "call-less" ECD is an ideal, what will we be paying the 
caller/ teacher for? Standing there looking cute?

yrs for noise
Steve Corrsin

Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:04:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Relatively speaking
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020717150400.46364.qmail-AT-
web13605.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:

> I believe someone -- Allison Thompson, perhaps? -- on this list
> said, not 
> long ago, that "call-less" ECD was a manageable idea when there was
> only a small core of constantly used dances, a few dozen perhaps.
> Nowadays, when 
> everybody and his aunt or uncle is composing new dances in the ECD
> style,  that is a hopeless idea. Not a positive ideal at all.

For the record, none of my aunts or my uncles compose ECD-style
dances.  I believe there is a fourth cousin, once or twice removed however...

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:22:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:22:03 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF2F1C3D93.B6ECD889-ON85256BF9.005156A1-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Dear Steven,
In line with what you were saying, I like to justify to my dancers that
calling today is OK because we tend to sample dances from a pool that has
accumulated over centuries so we don't expect the average dancer to know
them well. One of the reasons calling was not the norm in the Playford era
is that at any one moment in time and place in the world, there would be a
few very popular dances that everyone knew or could pick up from their
friends and partners. They never tried to dance 100 or more years-worth of
material the way we do today.

I don't know if this is actually true but it seems to make sense to the
dancers, and by calling it also makes ECD accessible to anyone who drops in
at the door of the hall because they heard the music and just want to try
it out.

Of course it doesn't stop me encouraging them to memorize the figures
because that facilitates smooth and quality dancing.

One other trick I use to try to encourage dancers to learn the dance as
part of the tune and to visualize it as a continuous flow is that I like to
give dancers a chance to call one - prepared or not. They don't have to
want to become callers to gain loads from the experience. I got the idea
from my mom when I had an emergency and couldn't get back from Boston for
my Amherst dance. She made large cardboard (8x11) flash cards with common
dance calls in large black magic marker and handed them out to the people
as they arrived. There was no expectation of quality "calling" and they had
such a blast doing it that I always have a stack of such cards with my
sound gear.

One other comment is that although you, Steven,  find it torture to have a
dance fall apart, it is sort of like walking in a torrential downpour - its
an attitude thing. If you insist on not getting wet, it is stressful
whereas if you concentrate on just how delicious the moisture feels, it can
be wonderful. I don't want a dance to entirely disintegrate, but I do try
to impress on the dancers that dancing to the music is fun and rewarding
whether they are with me or not. I encourage people to try to enjoy the
moments of bewilderment by smiling, relaxing, and going with the flow of
the music while they wait for someone who knows the dance to bring order to
their portion of the set. Two good things that may happen is that they may
serendipitously invent something that is a useful variant or an idea for a
new dance, and they may find satisfaction and strength of confidence from
the experience of regrouping and getting back on track.  I believe that
allowing people to rectify modest amounts of chaos on their own is
empowering whereas stopping the dance and setting them straight can
undermine their self-confidence. Of course I only let it continue if I have
full expectations that they can and will get back on track since trying and
failing would be the worst for their confidence. After the dance is
through, although a dancer may bear some responsibility for getting fouled
up, I don't mention that but rather apologize for what I did not provide in
the instruction, the prompting, or the way I played the tune.
Cammy

PS. How much do you pay your callers? How cute are they?



                                                                                                                                         
                      "Stephen D. Corrsin"                                                                                               
                      <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>           To:       ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                   
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                               
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint                       
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                      17-Jul-2002 10:15 AM                                                                                               
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         




This is something that has come up a number of times. Here is my take,
worth
approx 2 cents. In other words, if $1.48 is added to it, I can get a ride
on
the NYC subway. (Still?)

Some people seem to express the idea that a "call-less" (or almost
completely so) ECD is the ideal to strive towards. I say, no: that is a
sure
way to undermine ECD as a positive sort of recreation. I speak as a
consumer
of ECD, that is, neither musician nor caller nor teacher nor anything of
the
kind. I just like to dance the stuff. I feel that there are few ECD caller/

teacher tricks as irritating as when said caller/ teacher just stands there

silently as sets collapse -- that is Dance Torture. To be fair, I haven't
seen this very much since the late '80s.

I believe someone -- Allison Thompson, perhaps? -- on this list said, not
long ago, that "call-less" ECD was a manageable idea when there was only a
small core of constantly used dances, a few dozen perhaps. Nowadays, when
everybody and his aunt or uncle is composing new dances in the ECD style,
that is a hopeless idea. Not a positive ideal at all.

By the way, if "call-less" ECD is an ideal, what will we be paying the
caller/ teacher for? Standing there looking cute?

yrs for noise
Steve Corrsin

Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:29:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 19:29:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1222
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37.2a811fb6.2a6757df-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In a message dated 17/7/02 3:00:59 pm, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

>Nic Broadbridge wrote:
>
>>     There is also a dance of the same name (Early One Morning) (using
>the
>same tune) by the
>> Dutchman Cor Hogendijk, which is popular in the Netherlands,
>
>Just to put the record straight, the dance is by Ernst van Brakel and was
>first published in the book Triple Dutch. Later republished and recorded
>on
>Dutch Crossing. You can hear a fragment on www.nvs-dance.nl/shop.html
>
>Antony Heywood
 Oops, sorry!!! As soon as I read Antony's opening I realized I had goofed.

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.   
http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:54:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020718075400.57275.qmail-AT-
web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com> wrote:
> Ben is touching on an interesting difference in how the different
> genres of  folk dance are taught expected to be learned.
> International folk dances in circles or lines are broken down step
> by step, movement quality is alluded to, the dance is practiced -
> perhaps in segments - and then the teaching stops. When a dance is
> newly introduced, perhaps the teacher may say a key phrase as a
> reminder, but that's it. Dancers are expected to learn the dance as
> an entirety and retain it as such. Newcomers are encouraged to
dance
> behind the line or circle, or at the end of the line, until they
> gain some knowledge and confidence.

There are people who come to Scandinavian and try to lerarn dances by
foloowing what others are doing, Unfortunately, you can't learn
turning dances this way while trying to turn. I always feel sorry for
the partner they are dragging around with them.

I have never found this to be a very useful teaching method for me.
My interpretation of this teaching method is that everyone is
watching everyone else's feet, hoping someone is doing it correctly.

Andy


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 05:40:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 08:35:20 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207180838_MC3-1-72B-74F8-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Oh Andy, how true!
But you know that I was referring to line and circle dances with that
'behind the line' comment, not couple dances and most particularly not
turning couple dances! I, too, was asked by someone who didn't know how to
do a hambo, whether I wanted to join him 'trying'. I suggested we watch
instead. He was puzzled because 'it doesn't look difficult to ME!'
When it's an independent dance (i. e. line or circle where it doesn't
matter to anyone but you whether your steps are correct, as long as you
don't louse up the rhythm and direction), behind the line is okay.
When it's a partner dance it is good if both partners know the dance
independent of each other (I'll try hard to let them change partners often
to avoid that they can do a specific dance ONLY with a specific partner).
If it's a group dance for couples, i. e. contras - one CAN learn on the fly
because of the calling and the interaction with partners and neighbors.
For ECD one really does need to learn the pattern first and needs to be
taught. Very experienced dancers who have danced all manner of different
patterns, can perhaps pick up a new one on the fly - but it ain't
necessarily pretty. Set dances with unusual patterns - forget the
aforesaid. Rarely is a session just a learning session; easy fun and
serious work- and walkthroughs are mixed in an appropriate manner, usually
anyway.
And whatever manner of presentation is used, I really don't believe that
apologies to newcomers need be made. No beginning violinist would show up
at a concert performance of the Philly Orchestra and expect to be welcomed
to 'sit in'. Explanations are in order though. If had some stern teachers
in almost any genre of dance who said in advance for what level of
experience the next dance was meant - and whose word was respected. Strange
thing though: they are all dead by now...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 06:17:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:17:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0207180911040.111830-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Paul Ross wrote:

> I believe callers should try to wean dancers away from overdependence on
> continuous reminders; this includes rank beginners. The intermediate goal is
> to develop dance memory; the larger goal is to give dancers the pleasure of
> moving as one with the music (something that Graham refers to in his
> message, only in different words).

I agree wholeheartedly.

Sometimes, after a few sessions with the same dancers, I feel that some
dancers like to exercise control over the caller by always asking to walk
through a dance or asking that the caller continue to call throughout the
entire dance.   I'm talking about dancers who having been dancing these
same dances for ten years or so.  these dancers need more than a gentle
hint.  They need repeated training in how to learn a dance when standing
out at top or bottom; how to relate the words to the movements someone
else is making; and continuous compliments on how much their dancing is
improving.



> But flexibility is the key: having 50 percent of your crowd beginners is
> different from 10 percent or 5; one-night stands are different from regular
> series dances, which are different from balls, and so on.

Very true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:00:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:59:46 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - learn by feel and not by trying to watch and analyze footwork
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF8997270C.053CC1D3-ON85256BFA.0057284D-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I have had 99% success at teaching scandinavian turning dances at full
speed to the music with a minimum of explanation of the footwork. Give me
any beginner and 5-10 minutes and I'll have them doing a respectable Hambo,
polska, hottis, snoa... The key is to avoid newcomer/newcomer pairing. In
workshop situations where all are new, I dance with EVERY participant.
Sometimes it begins to fall apart as they return to their newcomer
partners, but they have caught the essence of what they are striving for.

I think the time to watch and analyze footwork is after you have mastered
the turning where it reinforces what the body already knows and can be used
to hone the fine points.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 09:46:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 12:45:57 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFCFB3FB87.14A3442F-ON85256BFA.0059C20C-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Oh Andy, how true!
....
And whatever manner of presentation is used, I really don't believe that
apologies to newcomers need be made. No beginning violinist would show up
at a concert performance of the Philly Orchestra and expect to be welcomed
to 'sit in'. Explanations are in order though. If had some stern teachers
in almost any genre of dance who said in advance for what level of
experience the next dance was meant - and whose word was respected. Strange
thing though: they are all dead by now...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

Dear Hanny,
Once again I seem to have failed in making my point.
I'm not sure about the Philly O or what the point is of sitting in at
orchestras is about, but no matter - here is my point:
When things get rough during a dance, newcomers have a tendency to assume
that their inexperience is the cause and for many of them this makes them
all the more reluctant, self conscious, and less hopeful that they can
master the techniques.
Whether the roughness was their doing or not (it often was) and whether
there was anything lacking in my instruction or my playing or not (often
there wasn't), it does not hurt me and it often helps the newcomers'
attitude toward the rest of the evening if I acknowledge that there were
rough parts and that I undoubtably could have done a better job of teaching
and/or playing. This is what I am calling an apology and it serves the
function of shifting the bulk of the responsibility from the newcomer to
the leader of the evening. (It is not all for show - I DO analyze what I
could have done better by reviewing my own approach and by reviewing how
others do it and there is ALWAYS something I can work on).

I do not feel apologies to newcomers "need be made" but I feel it is a
magnanimous gesture that can ease the stress and stress like tension in the
bow arm can be counter-productive in the rate and ease with which newcomers
are assimilated. The only drawback I can see is-what if they go home and
start telling their friends just how easy it was and how pleasant and
patient the caller was and how inclusive the whole evening felt!!?? What
will we do then?
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:20:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:14:31 -0400
From: Dick Wexelblat <dick.wexelblat-AT-
comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - hambo in Sweden
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <009501c22e7e$94e29730$6401a8c0-AT-
CC325747A>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <OF8997270C.053CC1D3-ON85256BFA.0057284D-AT-
biogen.com>

Years ago I was in Stockholm on business -- giving talks to potential
customers for a computer company.  Afterwards the local host took us
together with most of his staff to a suburban bar/restaurant for dinner.
There was music and dancing, but mostly rock-swing.  Later they began
playing polkas and finally hambos.  I mentioned to one of the Swedes that I
used to do the hambo (it had been 15 years or so earlier, at the
Philadelphia Folk Dance Center) and she immediately dragged me onto the
floor.  After a bit of fumbling (she was a good leader) we got the rhythm
and we danced hambo for a good 20-25 minutes.  And I was barely breathing
hard.  The way they danced it there was very "close to the floor": as fast
as we usually do it here, but with a much slower turn, less foot swinging,
and dancing closer together.  Much closer together.  I have occasionally
seen people doing it this way in the U.S., but if the floor is at all
crowded they're in great danger of being knocked around.

    Regards

    Dick Wexelblat

(No, not that Dick Wexelblat, another person with the same name.)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Campbell Kaynor" <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - learn by feel and not by trying to watch and
analyze footwork


> I have had 99% success at teaching scandinavian turning dances at full
> speed to the music with a minimum of explanation of the footwork. ...

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:25:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 13:25:19 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - hambo in Sweden
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFAB828CB6.B59CE5BE-ON85256BFA.005F82FA-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In Western Dalarna, it tends to be even slower than Stockholm and, as you
say - not bumpy or energetic.
CK

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:26:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:26:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - hambo in Sweden
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719012637.12473.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com> wrote:
> In Western Dalarna, it tends to be even slower than Stockholm and,
> as you say - not bumpy or energetic.

I've found that every partner, and what they seem to expect of me, is
different. Some are very smooth while others have a very pronounced
dip in their turn. I think it's like dancing anything, it all depends
upon from whom and where you learned it.

Do you know about the biggest Hambo contest anywhere?
<http://www.halsingehambon.x.se/>  Friends of mine went to watch the
year they were in Sweden. Some friends of theirs, from Vancouver BC,
were entered that year, one of about five-hundred couples. The first
round is done on a freshly mowed hayfield complete with stubble and
clods of dirt and you certainly want to be one of the later couples
for that one. The second round is on a street, moving uphill as I
recall. The third round is, once again, on a field. The final round
starts with dancing up a street to the place where the remaining
eighty or so couples perform again on stage. A final ten is chosen
from the eighty, then the champions are chosen. The temperature the
day Paul and Johanna were there was in the 90's and the costumes are
mostly wool. As soon as people finished their round at each site, the
wool came off down to the underwear. (Paul told us that with a big
grin on his face.) 

One of the things that they learned while watching is that the
dalsdeg (it's a step, rise/lift, not a step, swing the way a lot of
people here do it) at the beginning of the sequence is done moving
forward. Most people do it in place.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:46:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Scandinavian - learn by feel and not by trying to watch and analyze footwork
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719014648.56352.qmail-AT-
web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The people of whom I was speaking are "experienced folk dancers" who
learn International line dances by watching others and seem to think
that actually showing up for a teaching session where a particular
dance is taught (not all polskas are the same, nor are all hambos) is
beneath them. Then they show up later in the evening and drag a
partner through something (not the dance their partner learned
earlier) while trying to watch others around them.

I've been dancing for over 35 years and I know that I don't know
everything. That's why I keep going to classes and why I get so
frustrated by those who think that learning something new is beneath
them.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:52:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:52:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719015236.97842.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu> wrote:
> I'm talking about dancers who having been dancing
> these same dances for ten years or so.

After ten years they shouldn't need any prompting if you are using
the same music, as done with the old classics. It reminds me of
Dudley Laufman telling about the first time he called a dance in
Nelson NH. He said they only knew four dances. They did each one for
about half an hour, went out for a break, then came back and did the
same four dances, again. In the beginning, he had a hard time
teaching them anything new.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 18:57:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:57:04 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Scandinavian - hambo in Sweden
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001101c22ec7$94acfe10$6fc4c943-AT-
g9tfz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dick wrote:

"The way they danced it there was very "close to the floor": as fast as we
usually do it here, but with a much slower turn, less foot swinging, and
dancing closer together.  Much closer together."

It's what we experienced in Denmark also.

Pat Ruggiero
(the same Pat R. you're thinking of, not the other ones)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:00:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:00:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719020046.57740.qmail-AT-
web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com> wrote:
> ...it is sort of like walking in a torrential downpour - its
> an attitude thing. If you insist on not getting wet, it is
> stressful whereas if you concentrate on just how delicious the
> moisture feels, it can be wonderful.

But a gentle Oregon rain is much easier to enjoy than a stinging east
coast deluge.  ;-})

Real Oregonians don't use umbrellas. Washington is the home of the
Moss People. If you stand still, the north side grows moss.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:05:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:05:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719020508.21506.qmail-AT-
web20005.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> Some people seem to express the idea that a "call-less" (or almost 
> completely so) ECD is the ideal to strive towards. 

I certainly prefer less than constant. If the dance is going well,
there is no need to call, but if someone is faltering, give them an
occasional promt.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:17:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:17:14 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Beginner responsibility
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF87E5141E.18348EC1-ON85256BFB.000C7207-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In some places it is still done this way. The variety comes from the
different partners and the gradual rise in blood alcohol levels after each
break.


                                                                                                                                         
                      Andy Peterson                                                                                                      
                      <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>             To:       ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                          
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                               
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: Beginner responsibility                                             
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                      18-Jul-2002 09:52 PM                                                                                               
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         




--- "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu> wrote:
> I'm talking about dancers who having been dancing
> these same dances for ten years or so.

After ten years they shouldn't need any prompting if you are using
the same music, as done with the old classics. It reminds me of
Dudley Laufman telling about the first time he called a dance in
Nelson NH. He said they only knew four dances. They did each one for
about half an hour, went out for a break, then came back and did the
same four dances, again. In the beginning, he had a hard time
teaching them anything new.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 19:41:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 22:10:56 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b95d242526d8-AT-
[165.247.11.137]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <LAW2-F525UxP9Fekzab00013f37-AT-
hotmail.com>

Steve Corrsin writes:

>By the way, if "call-less" ECD is an ideal, what will we be paying 
>the caller/ teacher for? Standing there looking cute?

Cute's good, i'll take that.  Hopefully, though, the dance 
leader/teacher teaches or talks through the dance, thoroughly enough 
(and no more) for the dancers to be able to flow through the steps 
WITH the music and not much voice-over.  The goal is an enjoyable 
time for all.  Whatever works for a particular group at a particular 
time is the "best" method.

- Linda "cute" Nelson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:11:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 23:03:55 -0400
From: Michael Siemon <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100300b95d2f3dab67-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <LAW2-F525UxP9Fekzab00013f37-AT-
hotmail.com> <a05100301b95d242526d8-AT-
[165.247.11.137]>

>Steve Corrsin writes:
>
>>By the way, if "call-less" ECD is an ideal, what will we be paying 
>>the caller/ teacher for? Standing there looking cute?
>
>Cute's good, i'll take that.  Hopefully, though, the dance 
>leader/teacher teaches or talks through the dance, thoroughly enough 
>(and no more) for the dancers to be able to flow through the steps 
>WITH the music and not much voice-over.  The goal is an enjoyable 
>time for all.  Whatever works for a particular group at a particular 
>time is the "best" method.
>
>- Linda "cute" Nelson

Let's see. Say we have a band, and a hall, and a bunch of English
Country Dancers who know the whole repertoire cold, needing no teaching
or reminders at all, and able to instantly dance to the band's playing
a single A music, or such like. What would happen? At least an hour and
a half of dithering and arguing about _what_ to dance.

The leader's most important responsibility is _programming_, getting
a workable set of dances together, seeing that the band has the
program and can handle it (or has a chance to discuss alternatives),
seeing that it _works_ on the floor with the people present (which
may require instant on-the-spot changes to the program -- and hence
further band interaction), and then carrying out the "teach or talk
through the dance" to make it work, improvising as necessary on the
basis of the actual mix of folk on the dance floor.

That's a pretty major job description. Generally speaking, we pay
callers (like musicians) a rather pathetic sum for what we expect of
them.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:38:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 20:38:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Change of address
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020719033807.33108.qmail-AT-
web20005.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org> wrote:
> The dance itself was a "snake dance" type of thing - a big circle 
> which spirals in and out and various other figures (I've also seen 
> this done as part of a grand march). he specifically mentioned one 
> figure as "the oldest figure in the oldest dance in the world".

It sounds a lot like what the Norwegians call Langdanse. (I don't
guarantee the spelling is right.) Traditionally it is a long winding
dance that is done to very old songs with many verses.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:24:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:23:14 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consumer's viewpoint
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b95d3f84951a-AT-
[165.247.5.71]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <LAW2-F525UxP9Fekzab00013f37-AT-
hotmail.com> <a05100301b95d242526d8-AT-
[165.247.11.137]> <p05100300b95d2f3dab67-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>

Michael Siemon writes:

>The leader's most important responsibility is _programming_, getting
>a workable set of dances together, seeing that the band has the
>program and can handle it (or has a chance to discuss alternatives),
>seeing that it _works_ on the floor with the people present (which
>may require instant on-the-spot changes to the program -- and hence
>further band interaction), and then carrying out the "teach or talk
>through the dance" to make it work, improvising as necessary on the
>basis of the actual mix of folk on the dance floor.

Spot on.  But if well done, most of this work is done without the 
dancers ever noticing.  And then there's background study and 
research into source material, dance instructions and music... which 
doesn't show, except in the quality of the dance program, and the 
ease of working with musicians and dancers.  "Tip of the iceberg" 
anyone?

- Linda
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:30:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:26:49 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not in ECD from a consume
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207190830_MC3-1-753-8D65-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>Let's see. Say we have a band, and a hall, and a bunch of English
>Country Dancers who know the whole repertoire cold, needing no teaching
>or reminders at all, and able to instantly dance to the band's playing
>a single A music, or such like....

That describes EXACTLY the situation at the first Playford Ball! And what a
joy it was, 'dancing out' all night long without a care about nuttn...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:08:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:08:12 -0400
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: calling or not
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F127lMazUSxvjP00016a19-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On the list, I generally prefer to lurch to the surface occasionally rather 
than comment very much. I do, however, feel strongly about the matter of ECD 
teachers/ leaders/ callers/ being actively involved in dances. But it 
appears that my little offhand comment about "standing there looking cute" 
excited more interest, or at least response, than my serious content. Or 
attempt at serious content.

Here goes. I don't accept that "call-less" ECD is the goal. It might be 
attainable under these conditions: 1/ stable group of capable dancers, 
including very few New Persons, and very few Not Very Good Dancers (we all 
know that some people will never be good or even mediocre dancers -- should 
they be cast into the outer darkness?); 2/ stable, and limited list of 
dances which everyone is expected to know, as in Playford's up to Jane 
Austen's day (approx). (Are the composers on this list willing to give up 
their new creations?)

I don't believe that either of these conditions is attainable, or even 
desirable. I've attended plenty of Playford balls; I can recall one NYC 
attempt, some years ago, which aimed at near-call-lessness (now there is a 
word...). It kept dissolving into messes even though it was a very capable 
and experienced group. (Others may recall this differently.) My experiences 
with callers/ leaders/ teachers when they try not to call, or to call hardly 
at all, has always been bad. Bad as in unpleasant, unenjoyable, good time 
not had.

No doubt others would disagree. To some degree, it comes down to questions 
of what one is aiming for in ECD. I'm looking for a pleasant evening, or 
afternoon or whenever. I'm happy to do new material. I've got, at last 
depressing count, 19 years of "group moving in pre-established patterns 
while purportedly English-derived music plays and someone is responsible for 
helping the group function." (My definition of ECD.) I think I do it pretty 
well. I'm happy to see and help new dancers. I don't think anyone can accuse 
me of being hostile to innovation.

I'm not looking for ECD expertise so much as recreation through ECD. I've 
taken part in "master classes" and the like, workshops for new material, and 
so on. These have been fine and fun (depending on circumstances, of course.) 
But I get no personal charge from remembering which way to turn or trot to 
particular bits of music. I've got enough on my mind.

I'm looking, in ECD, for recreation, not achievement. I'll settle for sword 
dances when I want a sense of achievement. If that means that the "quality" 
of ECD in which I participate is lower, or I'm personally not dancing as 
well as I might, well then so be it. "Quality" with regard to ECD is always 
a relative term, anyhow, including a broad range of factors, not merely 
dance skill but enjoyment and sociability and not finding your tires slashed 
in the parking lot.

Perhaps this reflects my viewpoint as a consumeroid rather than leaderoid. I 
expect that the weight of the list is on the leaderoid side, and I suspect 
that leaderoids will aim for greater expertise over recreational emphasis.

I've said more than 2 cents in this matter, probably way too much. So it 
goes. Please remember, in reply, not to include my entire message in your 
reply. I believe our fearless listleader made that request at some point 
(they all do, sooner or later).

Steve C.


Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:22:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:19:46 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Scandinavian - hambo in Sweden
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207191122_MC3-1-762-363-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

That bouncy hambo, in my experience, is a strictly American phenomenon. I
haven't seen it anywhere else, not in Sweden nor anywhere else in Europe -
and it IS a favorite dance over there!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:22:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:19:40 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Colonial dances for random groups
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200207191122_MC3-1-762-35C-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

So, Emily
what DID you actually get to dance, and how did it go? Did you have live
music?
  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:28:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:24:02 -0400
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D382F11.2C79FD46-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <LAW2-F127lMazUSxvjP00016a19-AT-
hotmail.com>

This consumeroid would like to thank Steve Corrsin for his
well-expressed thoughts.  While I much enjoy the challenge of learning
the dances, I, too, have enough on my mind.  I want some achievement,
but recreation--an enjoyable evening dancing with friends to beautiful
music--is the primary goal.

">I've got, at last depressing count, 19 years of "group moving in pre-
>established patterns while purportedly English-derived music plays and
> someone is responsible for helping the group function." 

Depressing because it's not enough years??

--Deb Karl
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 08:46:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:45:11 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003c01c22f3b$57da5ea0$4f4386d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi Steve
I am glad to see "enjoyment" and "sociability" feature here...
Alan Corkett
 Steve wrote..."Quality" with regard to ECD is always
a relative term, anyhow, including a broad range of factors, not merely
dance skill but enjoyment and sociability and not finding your tires slashed
in the parking lot.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:03:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:03:08 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: calling or not
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFE3ACED8B.1009797C-ON85256BFB.005B8937-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Steven said ....
My experiences
with callers/ leaders/ teachers when they try not to call, or to call
hardly
at all, has always been bad. Bad as in unpleasant, unenjoyable, good time
not had.


Dear Steven,
I am sorry that your experiences have been so, and I expect that the non or
minimal-calling situations must have been mishandled (we all make mistakes
in judgement) in the sense that the dancers weren't ready for it.
Although my take has been to recommend calling as a means to make the genre
accessible to a larger audience, I ALSO feel that not calling is an ideal.
An ideal means that you never attain this (or only in rare moments), but
you DO strive for it. If the dancers and musicians are PERFECTLY in synch,
if the choreographer captured the message of the melody without flaw, and
if the music is explicit enough, the calls are not required. What the tune
tells each dancer to do is the figure that was designed to be there. In my
view the caller is a facilitator who samples the air for what musicians and
dancers want to do, orchestrates the program accordingly, and reiterates
the calling that the musicians are doing by translating it into english
language. In this way, the caller can facilitate where musicians have not
been explicit or dancers are not attuned to hear the language of music.
If the caller does not encourage the dancers and musicians to acquire
effective skills at easy communication, then ideed he/she will never be
able to stop. One helps people to learn these skills by holding back from
"over-calling" and letting the dance ride at the moments where it is not
required. If one has fostered the skill of understanding the marriage of
music and movement and the musicians and dancers are on target, it is an
ugly intrusion to add the caller's voice to this magical mix.
Notice that MY ideal is not based on the dancers' flawless memory, but
rather on the quality of the choreography, the explicit nature of the
music, and the sensitivity of the dancers. A poorly written dance (or even
a well written dance with one awkward and non-melody based move) will
require calling. A poorly played tune (or one that is played well but in a
manner that does not describe the choreography) will also require
clarification from the caller. I haven't said anything about it, but to
some extent the dancers are expressing the tune through their movement on
the dance floor and the musicians need to be trained to respond to them in
like fashion.

So this is the ideal. It is not based on stress, anxiety, or disintegration
of the experience, but rather on the strength of synchrony that can be
found when there is superb communication.
Got to run,
Cammy

PS. I like cute callers

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:26:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:42:44 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: To call, or not to call...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF4B9871F0.61230BEC-ON85256BFB.0067402C-AT-
risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Whether 'tis nobler in a dance to suffer
The goofs and lapses of outrageous crowds
Or to take the microphone against the chaos,
And by your calling, end it...

I simply don't accept that call-*free* dancing is the ideal state of
English Country Dance.

I must echo Mr. Corrsin's remarks, to some degree. Dancing without calling
demands a stable--not to say frozen--constituency and repertoire, to both
of which I am opposed. Dancing without calling can lead to extreme
carelessness in phrasing and other possibly bad group habits. Moreover,
there are often (still) subtle regional or local differences in the
interpretation of a dance. The familiar and beloved music for "The
Blithering Nuisance" starts up, everyone sighs and applauds, and sets form.
All goes well until the beginning of B2. Do the 1s cast around the standing
2s, or do the 2s lead out of their way? Of course, here in Gillikin
country, we do it the *right* way: the 2s lead up. Alas for the visitor
from the Emerald City, where they *also* do it the right way (the 2s stay
put!). Crash!

Nor do I really agree that a well-written dance is easy to do without
calling. There are many interesting dances that are not obvious. Contrary
to what we always laughingly say, the music does *not* tell you what to do.
The music does not "mean" Do-This-Figure; if it did, it wouldn't be
music--it would be words. True, in many dances, the music seems to suggest
movement, but since music seems to say many different sorts of things,
different figures can equally well match the same music (which is why you
*don't* always do the same thing to the 2nd A or the 2nd B). If the music
"says" "Cast!" or "Slip!" with equal conviction, which one will you do now?
how do you know? The leader *tells* you: *that's* how you know.

I absolutely celebrate the feeling of dancing to music, without the
"interruption" of the human voice (even conversation). It does feel like an
achievement of a kind. The others have gone home; you and your friends
happen to have a yen to do "The Whirligig"; you all feel confident of it;
you've persuaded the fiddler and the sexton to stay on for just five
minutes: you dance. That's marvelous, no question. But by no means, in my
view, should any of us feel that we have somehow failed if our memories
don't work that way, or if such occasions don't present themselves often.

In the 17th and 18th centuries, there *was* a good deal of mutual testing
going on even in the relatively relaxed atmosphere of country dancing
(relaxed not by our standards but as opposed to, say, Court etiquette)--you
were supposed to get trained, catch on, and get it right, or you were a bit
of a fool. Despite my reverence for tradition, *this* is a tradition I
don't see a reason to continue. No final exams! as Christine Helwig is
supposed to have said.

I am aware that on this very list, not long ago, I jawed about dancers
taking responsibility, and my words could be used against me in a court of
law--but.

I do hope for excellent and musical dancing. I'm happy to drop out of
calling at the earliest opportunity, and let dancers have the direct
experience of the music and each other. And yes, I do hope and even expect
good and experienced dancers to need less from me or other callers than
newer dancers; and for all dancers to need *less* of me each round.

But to me, the *ne plus ultra* of English Country Dancing is dancing well
together (both well *and* together), and getting our pleasures from
that--not from memorization or near-performance. These are also pleasures;
also, at times to be had *from* English Country Dance--but not pleasures I
expect every week or even every month.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:38:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:38:32 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: To call, or not to call...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFC0AD146D.D8CBE387-ON85256BFB.006B8F30-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


To Graham from Cammy,
<I simply don't accept that call-*free* dancing is the ideal state of
English Country Dance.

I disagree. This kind of dance and music form a heterodimer that is
intriguing and satisfying in its symbiotic nature and the feeling of
synergy when they intertwine in the ideal scenario. In striving for this
ideal, all the things that both you and I agree make for good dancing are
incorporated. If we fail to achieve the ideal (99.9% of the time), we can
always be proud of what we have achieved through the effort.

<...Dancing without calling
demands a stable--not to say frozen--constituency and repertoire, to both
of which I am opposed.

I am also opposed to these circumstances but they are most definitely NOT
essential to the ideal. First timers and new dance repertoire are as much a
part of it as the old favorites and an experienced dance crowd. In fact,
old dancers pay more attention to the music of new material and newcomers
are still unfamiliar with the calls so they tend to draw on cues from the
music and surrounding experienced dancers so I would say the ground for
this ideal is more favorable when circumstances are the opposite of what
you describe.

<...Dancing without calling can lead to extreme
carelessness in phrasing and other possibly bad group habits.

Yes it can, but not if one has trained the dancers and musicians to look to
each other for the phrasing. Again I think you are assuming that one
achieves these ideals by abandoning a non-communicative bunch to random
acts of indifference. The ideal of which I spoke is one in which there is
no confusion about phrasing - that's WHY the caller can stop. I was not
suggesting a caller should sit on the sidelines and allow a group of
dancers to develop bad habits (though there may be lots of debate about how
"bad" is defined and there is something to be said for letting natural
selection eradicate inappropriate moves).

<Moreover,
there are often (still) subtle regional or local differences in the
interpretation of a dance....

Hopefully some of these nuances are covered in the walk through or they are
so obvious that one will pick them up by being in the midst of a consensus
on this regional subtlety.

<Nor do I really agree that a well-written dance is easy to do without
calling. There are many interesting dances that are not obvious.

An "interesting dance" is not necessarily a well-written dance. I won't get
into what I consider "well-written" because that would take chapters, but
suffice it to say that it supports the ideal in being as appropriate to the
instructions of the melody as a harmony line would be.

<Contrary to what we always laughingly say, the music does *not* tell you
what to do.

This may depend on whose music you are dancing. (Notice I didn't say
dancing TO).

<The music does not "mean" Do-This-Figure; if it did, it wouldn't be
music--it would be words.

Music is as clear as words in this ideal setting and it most definitely
does say "do this figure." Teaching the dancers the language of music is
the grueling task of the dance leader.

<True, in many dances, the music seems to suggest
movement, but since music seems to say many different sorts of things,
different figures can equally well match the same music (which is why you
*don't* always do the same thing to the 2nd A or the 2nd B).

First, one should never play the 2nd A the same as one played the 1st
unless it is a mere repetition of the figure. There are moments when the
message a melody portrays could be translated as either "turn by the right
hand," "gypsy," or "back-to-back" but there are ways to distinguish them
and there are other cues that we use to interpret. Many of these cues come
from the context as we have so often discussed in the past on this list.
What comes before and what comes after in the dance and tune are as
essential to the choice of translations as the melody at the moment. If the
dancers exhibit confusion at this point, by all means the caller should say
a word to clarify. This does not negate the ideal for which we strive.

<If the music
"says" "Cast!" or "Slip!" with equal conviction, which one will you do now?
how do you know? The leader *tells* you: *that's* how you know.

All I can say is I hope my music NEVER says "slip" or "cast" with equal
conviction at the same place in the tune!!! You could hardly have picked
more disparate music. Occasionally the musicians make mistakes and often
there are members of the band who are less than familiar with the
choreography but it is hard to imagine that one or the other figure would
not come through as the predominant cue.

<I absolutely celebrate the feeling of dancing to music, without the
"interruption" of the human voice (even conversation). It does feel like an
achievement of a kind. The others have gone home; you and your friends
happen to have a yen to do "The Whirligig"; you all feel confident of it;
you've persuaded the fiddler and the sexton to stay on for just five
minutes: you dance. That's marvelous, no question. But by no means, in my
view, should any of us feel that we have somehow failed if our memories
don't work that way, or if such occasions don't present themselves often.

As I said before, this ideal that I strive for does not rely on memory, but
sensitivity. It is not a situation where a caller is needed but refuses to
call as in all the examples you used above. In the perfect setting, the
music is unambiguous, the figures of the dance are a natural consequence of
the "plot" of both the dance and the tune, and the caller is the
interpreter to weigh in only when needed.

<In the 17th and 18th centuries, there *was* a good deal of mutual testing
going on even in the relatively relaxed atmosphere of country dancing
(relaxed not by our standards but as opposed to, say, Court etiquette)--you
were supposed to get trained, catch on, and get it right, or you were a bit
of a fool. Despite my reverence for tradition, *this* is a tradition I
don't see a reason to continue. No final exams! as Christine Helwig is
supposed to have said.

I agree that testing is to be avoided.

<....I do hope for excellent and musical dancing. I'm happy to drop out of
calling at the earliest opportunity, and let dancers have the direct
experience of the music and each other. And yes, I do hope and even expect
good and experienced dancers to need less from me or other callers than
newer dancers; and for all dancers to need *less* of me each round.

I think this is what I have been talking about though I think you do
discredit to the abilities of newer dancers.

But to me, the *ne plus ultra* of English Country Dancing is dancing well
together (both well *and* together), and getting our pleasures from
that--not from memorization or near-performance. These are also pleasures;
also, at times to be had *from* English Country Dance--but not pleasures I
expect every week or even every month.

As I state before, memorization and performance have very little to do with
the ideal of caller-less dancing as I envision it. I agree with the goal
that the ECD should be done well and together and we do get our pleasure
from that.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 14:02:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 17:18:49 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: To call, or not to call...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF69A2BB51.3FBC3C77-ON85256BFB.00737DA7-AT-
risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I'm still not in agreement here.
Synergy is an excellent thing: but (to me) there are times when the
musicians *and* the music *and* the dancers *and* the caller can be part of
it together.

Nor (though this is perhaps a different discussion) do I agree that the
music tells us what to do. Words are not the language of music. Movement is
not the language of music. Music is the language of music. This (to me) is
how it is possible to have "Trip to the Jubilee" and "Jubilee Jigg" to the
same tune, and how it is possible to dance *either* to the same recording.
If the music tells me what to do, it should be *impossible* to back-to-back
in A1, and only possible to cross/turn, lead out. But that's not so.
They're both good dances; you can do either. The tune they share is on its
own errand: it does its own thing. It suggests movement; it inspires
movement. But it doesn't specify *exactly* what to do--and they didn't
think so in the 18th century either.

There are many aspects of a melody--shorter phrases within longer phrases,
rhythms, rising or falling pitches: different movements respond to
different aspects. Nor does everyone "hear" the movement possibilities in
the same way, which is why my idea of "fitting the music" may or may not be
someone else's: *de gustibus non disputandum*.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:49:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 19:49:16 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: To call, or not to call...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF67FFF199.D5BC92C5-ON85256BFB.00753B7C-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


"I'm still not in agreement here.
Synergy is an excellent thing: but (to me) there are times when the
musicians *and* the music *and* the dancers *and* the caller can be part of
it together."

Agreed. However, this does not detract from my vision of an ideal where
some of the dancing we do can occur in the absence of calling.

"Nor (though this is perhaps a different discussion) do I agree that the
music tells us what to do. Words are not the language of music."

Words are not the only language that tells me what to do. Music is one of
the others.

"Movement is
not the language of music. Music is the language of music. This (to me) is
how it is possible to have "Trip to the Jubilee" and "Jubilee Jigg" to the
same tune, and how it is possible to dance *either* to the same recording."

I begin to see the difference in our perspectives. The use of recorded
music won't satisfy the ideal that I described. It requires that the music
be custom fitted to the dance and the dancers in real time.
Now your allusion to dancing from memory and performance quality dancing
makes sense. I expect any group could memorize figures to live or recorded
music and dance them at performance level with sufficient practice but this
is not at all the callerless ideal that I had in mind.

"If the music tells me what to do, it should be *impossible* to
back-to-back
in A1, and only possible to cross/turn, lead out. But that's not so.
They're both good dances; you can do either. The tune they share is on its
own errand: it does its own thing. It suggests movement; it inspires
movement. But it doesn't specify *exactly* what to do--and they didn't
think so in the 18th century either."

I imagine that this is all true of the recording you have. Once again let
me stress that the ideal is attainable only with a special genre of
musicians who share in this ideal. They must know the language of dance and
understand how it compliments and contrasts with melody in countrapuntal
play. Just as one can compose alternate harmonies to the same melody, one
can devise numerous alternate choreographical sequences to complement the
melody. However, the melody played for each of these variants will also
alter to match, in part because the message it needs to convey is
different.

"There are many aspects of a melody--shorter phrases within longer phrases,
rhythms, rising or falling pitches: different movements respond to
different aspects. Nor does everyone "hear" the movement possibilities in
the same way, which is why my idea of "fitting the music" may or may not be
someone else's: *de gustibus non disputandum*."

Agreed. This is why we have different harmonies, dances to the same melody,
etc... However, you omitted one VERY significant aspect when you list the
aspects of a melody and this aspect trims the options to far fewer
interpretations - HOW IT IS PLAYED! That is why slipping music is NOT
casting music even when the melody is the same. Think of the first 2 Bs of
Fandango. I can't imagine there are many musicians who would play them the
same way because in the first you have to instruct the dancers to slip in a
circle whereas in the second you are asking the ones to progress elegantly
up the center and cast to the middle.

Once at a workshop on writing ECD dances, I played four measures of a tune
I had just written and asked everyone in the workshop to figure out the
best figure to do to that phrase of melody. I had them stand in different
locations (where they could not see each other) and do something - anything
- as I played this phrase. When we sat down again in a circle and polled
who had come up with what, 9 out of 9 had come up with very nearly the
figure I had in mind (some variant of set and turn single). 3 had
envisioned it in place, 2 had come up with set and cast down one place
(which I consider nearly musically synonymous with TS) and 4 (plus me makes
5) had it progress changing with partner as in Trip to Paris. How did we
arrive at such consensus? Why didn't anyone suggest a back-to-back or a
circle once or....? I hold that the reasons are:
1) I had trained these participants to ask "what does the music tell me to
do,"
2) The melody itself suggests a choppier part followed by roundnesses, and
3) I "enunciated" the calls through the way I played it on the fiddle.

(For those who want to try it out, I'll put it in abc below although you
won't have the "How I play it," the melody alone may suggest something to
you).

Despite the appearance of disagreement, I think that you and I have very
similar ideas of what makes good dancing and what is pleasurable, but we
have very different backgrounds in where (with whom) we dance and the music
we dance to so our vision of the "callerless" is tainted by our own
experiences.
Also, don't think for a minute that the ideal is commonplace in my
experience. It is what I strive for and only rarely attain in precious
magical moments. It is in the striving that one hones ones skills as a
dancer/musician and this is a life-long project. But besides what you gain
in the striving, one sets the stage for the magic to happen. By believing
that it is there, it can happen.
Cammy

Here is the first half of the tune. I asked the workshop participants to
devise ECD choreography for the first 4 bars:
X: 44
T:The Joy of Dance
C:Cammy Kaynor
S:
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:3/8=100
K:Am
E| ABA E2 e |d3 e2 d|cdc BcB|ABA ^G2 E| ABA E2 e |d3 g2 f| edc dcB| c3-c2::


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 08:01:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 11:01:22 -0700
From: Robin Hayden <robinhayden-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: What the music tells you
To: ecd list <ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D39A571.B0C43416-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Cammy, Graham, and all,

Of course the music tells you something:  it tells you HOW TO MOVE.  It
tells you how to carry your body.  It tells you what mood or feeling to
express through the medium of dance, with your body.  Some music can be
very suggestive of certain footing -- setting, slipping, step hopping,
double stepping, waltzing, gliding, walking with solemn dignity --
although even those suggestions are in the context of what we have
already learned and have come to expect in English dancing (that is,
someone who has never seen a set and turn single would surely be moved
to express your setting and turning single music in some other, I would
argue equally appropriate, musically and physically sensitive way).

I cannot agree that the music ever tells you to cast.  It may, if you
have danced to the tune before, spark a kinetic memory that compellingly
suggests "cast here."  It may tell you, "If you are going to cast here,
it should be lingeringly, perhaps swaying towards your partner slightly
before departing."  (It is certainly more likely to do so if the
musicians are striving for and sensitive to that sort of musical
communication.)  But it will not communicate any instruction, IN AND OF
ITSELF, as to whether to move right or left, up or down, parallel or
opposite to partner, forward or backward or sideways.  I believe this is
the crux of your disagreement.

Robin Hayden
Amherst, MA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:55:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:54:48 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What the music tells you
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001601c2300e$2977fd00$ad3486d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

....What the music tells you - how about "When to move!"
If you're going to dance in time with the music that is. Rhythm and tempo
are quite important, I feel.
Alan Corkett.

Robin said..."Of course the music tells you something:  it tells you HOW TO
MOVE.  It
tells you how to carry your body.  It tells you what mood or feeling to
express through the medium of dance, with your body.  Some music can be very
suggestive of certain footing -- setting, slipping, step hopping, double
stepping, waltzing, gliding, walking with solemn dignity -- in the context
of what we have already learned and have come to expect in English dancing.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:44:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 16:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re:  When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KKBP9OCEJK8YL3QS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Allison Thompson wrote:

> A parallel thought on this topic of when to shut up for beginners versus
> oldies is the situation a caller faces when someone on the floor--usually
> a just-graduated beginner--begins prompting the newbies around him or her
> enthusiastically, frequently inaccurately and so loudly that the voice of
> the caller, however well-miked, is drowned out. I am thinking of one
> fellow at a recent dance who did this so much that I was sorely tempted
> to reach out with my dainty fan and wham him upside the head as he danced
> by.

(This is the smallest piece of good writing that went by on the list while I
was gone.  Perhaps I should go away more often.)

On Memorial Day weekend I called a 'Regency' dance at a science-fiction
convention.  At one point we were doing "Abbesses", a three-couple bagatelle of
my own devising, with a contra-corners figure inspired by - if not stolen from
-  "Trip to Tunbridge."  Seven sets were doing fine; one set was having
problems, especially when a particular couple was first couple.  I observed
more closely and saw that part of the problem was that their third man (some
guy in a kilt) was giving left hand to first woman on the contra-corners turn,
which of course sent her traveling in the wrong direction.  

I walked over and stood near the set, and observed that the guy who was sending
the first woman the wrong way was also calling every time through the dance.  I
started calling more quietly to that set, correctly, emphasizing (as I had in
the walkthrough), how every turn was a right-hand turn.

The guy in the kilt turned to me and said - I've forgotten the exact words -
that they didn't need me to call for them; he had it covered.

On a dance he was doing wrong; on a dance that I wrote.

It understates the case to say that I am not often rendered speechless.  That
did it.

(We were coming round to the last time anyway, so I just left it at that and
made sure to do duple minors for a while, so he couldn't "help" any other
couples for more than one round at a time.)

As to "when to shut up", I'm afraid the answer is "as soon as you can, but no
sooner."  (But you can get out of the way of the music a lot sooner than you
can completely shut up.  With a group that knows Jack's Maggot you can stop
after calling the first round (with no walkthrough); with a group that doesn't,
you walk through and call the first round fully to confirm timing and phrasing,
but by about the third time you're likely safe saying (at the appropriate
times) "first man", "woman", "star" "corners", "circle, cast" and reading the
people about to become ones to see if they need more support.)

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:24:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:24:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0207202219560.155906-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Sat, 20 Jul 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote ( in
addition to a lot of good remarks at the brginning of his email):

> As to "when to shut up", I'm afraid the answer is "as soon as you can, but no
> sooner."  (But you can get out of the way of the music a lot sooner than you
> can completely shut up.  With a group that knows Jack's Maggot you can stop
> after calling the first round (with no walkthrough); with a group that doesn't,
> you walk through and call the first round fully to confirm timing and phrasing,
> but by about the third time you're likely safe saying (at the appropriate
> times) "first man", "woman", "star" "corners", "circle, cast" and reading the
> people about to become ones to see if they need more support.)

How about this for a personal test.  After a few dances, ask a dancer you
know if you are calling too much.  If the dancer says, "Yes," and you want
to rebut to point out that certain other dancers needed the calls, you
probably are calling too much.  If you don't want to ask a dancer because
you can judge for yourself, you probably are calling too much.

Hope I'm not being too harsh, but this point is one you can check for
yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:37:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:37:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: To call ...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <109.15bd9319.2a6bbeb4-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Having danced for somewhat over forty years, I grew up with the statement 
"The music tells you what to do", which in Britain means that the tunes used 
for English Country Dances are each specific to a particular dance, and when 
the tune is played for, say, Mr Isaac's Maggot, the body (and mind) remembers 
the choreography for that dance: that is what is meant by the statement "The 
music tells you what to do" here, anyway. 

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.   
http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 01:15:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 09:09:02 +0100
From: jmtraining <jmtraining-AT-
ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: To call ...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000f01c2308d$e07ff780$8ca468d5-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <109.15bd9319.2a6bbeb4-AT-
aol.com>

Nic

As a caller in the UK, I have a slightly different connotation of the use of
'the music tells you what to do'! It often means that the caller has 'lost
it'/can't remember etc etc
John Meechan

John Meechan Training
024 76 744211
john-AT-
jmtraining.org
www.jmtraining.org

----- Original Message -----
From: <SallenNic-AT-
aol.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: To call ...


> Having danced for somewhat over forty years, I grew up with the statement
> "The music tells you what to do", which in Britain means that the tunes
used
> for English Country Dances are each specific to a particular dance, and
when
> the tune is played for, say, Mr Isaac's Maggot, the body (and mind)
remembers
> the choreography for that dance: that is what is meant by the statement
"The
> music tells you what to do" here, anyway.
>
> Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
> http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 05:05:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:09:38 +0100
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: To call ...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201c230af$c1e1b580$594d3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <109.15bd9319.2a6bbeb4-AT-
aol.com> <000f01c2308d$e07ff780$8ca468d5-AT-
default>

quite! It's when the music doesn't know either, that the trouble starts.!!
francis.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jmtraining" <jmtraining-AT-
ntlworld.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: To call ...


> Nic
>
> As a caller in the UK, I have a slightly different connotation of the use
of
> 'the music tells you what to do'! It often means that the caller has 'lost
> it'/can't remember etc etc
> John Meechan
>
> John Meechan Training
> 024 76 744211
> john-AT-
jmtraining.org
> www.jmtraining.org
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <SallenNic-AT-
aol.com>
> To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: To call ...
>
>
> > Having danced for somewhat over forty years, I grew up with the
statement
> > "The music tells you what to do", which in Britain means that the tunes
> used
> > for English Country Dances are each specific to a particular dance, and
> when
> > the tune is played for, say, Mr Isaac's Maggot, the body (and mind)
> remembers
> > the choreography for that dance: that is what is meant by the statement
> "The
> > music tells you what to do" here, anyway.
> >
> > Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
> > http://www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
> >
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:08:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:14:00 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>
Subject: When to shut up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D3A9778.2522.181DBBB0-AT-
localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

"Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu> wrote:

> How about this for a personal test.  After a few dances, ask a dancer you
> know if you are calling too much.  If the dancer says, "Yes," and you want
> to rebut to point out that certain other dancers needed the calls, you
> probably are calling too much.  If you don't want to ask a dancer because
> you can judge for yourself, you probably are calling too much.

I'm confused by this - there doesn't seem to be an "I'm not calling 
too much" option. Or maybe that's the point...

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
bobarcher.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:08:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:13:59 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>
Subject: Re: To call, or not to call...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D3A9777.576.181DBB10-AT-
localhost>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com> wrote:

> Once at a workshop on writing ECD dances, I played four measures of a tune
> I had just written and asked everyone in the workshop to figure out the
> best figure to do to that phrase of melody. 

I am fascinated by this as an exercise, and impressed that you got so 
much agreement between your different groups, but I have to question 
whether it would scale to a 32 bar dance, let alone to a full evening 
of dances.

Surely it's not the case that every single tune for every single 
dance fits so utterly perfectly that every single figure can be 
discerned? Although if it was the case the possibilities are endless -
 the band could change the dance at will by varying the way they 
played. If you noticed a lot of children on the floor (who can 
generally hear higher notes than adults can) the piccolo player could 
instruct them alone to do a different figure. Of course something 
would need to be arranged so that dances where the first couple does 
one thing while the second couple does another...

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
bobarcher.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:19:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:28:47 +0100
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Colin Hume Tour
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E17WO6o-000600-00.2002-07-21-22-19-18-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I will be calling in Concord MA, Cambridge MA, Arlington MA,
Stockport NY, Amherst MA, Princeton NJ, Hopewell Junction NY and
Merion PA between 16th September and 9th October.

Please see my web site for full details.

Colin Hume

email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:19:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:22:17 +0100
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Two GUSTO events
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E17WO6m-000600-00.2002-07-21-22-19-17-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

GUSTO Dance

Lichfield Methodist Centre, Back Cester Lane, Lichfield.
Saturday August 31st 2002, 7.15-10.45pm.

Callers: Alan Davies and Barbara Kinsman
Musicians: Caroline Bunting and Dave Yeomans

Please book your tickets in advance (5 pounds) and bring a plate of
food.  Contact Wendy Knight, 150/152 Cassington Road, Yarnton,
KIDLINGTON, Oxon, OX5 1QB with SAE, or Email
wendy-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk



GUSTO Conference

Etching Hill, Rugeley, Staffordshire, Sunday September 1st, 10am-4pm.

This is aimed at GUSTO tutors, but contact Wendy on 01865 848914 if
you are interested and she will see if you can be fitted in.

The theme of the conference is teaching and learning, and we hope to
learn a lot about how different dancers learn.  In the morning we
will be experimenting with some radical methods of teaching dances
and asking participants to say what they learn and what is difficult
or impossible!  We hope it will be fun as well as challenging and
informative.  In the afternoon we will be focusing on progression.
Alan Davies, Barbara Kinsman, Wendy Knight, Val McFarlane and
Madeleine Smith will all be contributing to the sessions.

If you would like to come to both the Saturday Dance and the Sunday
Conference we can also give details of Bed and Breakfast
accommodation.

Colin Hume


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:31:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:31:37 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should we caller-less ECD be an ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFA0542E01.462EE992-ON85256BFE.005E7CC7-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

                                                                                                                                         
                      Bob Archer                                                                                                         
                      <bob-AT-
bobarcher.org>              To:       ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU                                            
                      Sent by:                         cc:                                                                               
                      owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.S        Subject:  Re: To call, or not to call...                                          
                      TANFORD.EDU                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         
                      21-Jul-2002 02:13 PM                                                                                               
                      Please respond to ECD                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                         





Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com> wrote:

> Once at a workshop on writing ECD dances, I played four measures of a
tune
> I had just written and asked everyone in the workshop to figure out the
> best figure to do to that phrase of melody.

I am fascinated by this as an exercise, and impressed that you got so
much agreement between your different groups, but I have to question
whether it would scale to a 32 bar dance, let alone to a full evening
of dances.

Surely it's not the case that every single tune for every single
dance fits so utterly perfectly that every single figure can be
discerned? Although if it was the case the possibilities are endless -
 the band could change the dance at will by varying the way they
played. If you noticed a lot of children on the floor (who can
generally hear higher notes than adults can) the piccolo player could
instruct them alone to do a different figure. Of course something
would need to be arranged so that dances where the first couple does
one thing while the second couple does another...

Dear Bob Archer,
The exercise I mentioned  was not intended to be expanded to an evening of
dance. I devised it to impress on skeptics that by listening to the music,
one can learn much about how to compose a dance that is particularly suited
to that melody. I also use this as a way to impress upon skeptical
musicians that they have more control than they know, about what is
happening on the dance floor. However, these tricks did take root in a
dream I had that perhaps explains the vision I have for this ideal.

These ideas evolved in part from a dream I had early in my calling days
(around 1978) in which I had an assembled set of contradancers in the
Montague Grange and I was insisting that I would not call the next dance.
There was a lot of complaining and skepticism that this would be anything
but chaos, but I stuck to it, we took hands-4 and we started the music.
Initially, there was a huge range of stuff going on from standing still and
helpless, to stars, allemandes, ladies' chains, etc... but as the tune
repeated, consensus remarkably began to evolve on the floor. By the third
time through, nearly everyone was doing the same figures (which might have
been a visual consensus-building except that they were the figures I had in
mind!
There were two exceptions:
1) No matter how hard I tried, I could not convey the difference between
dos-a-dos your neighbor and allemande right your neighbor and this figure
continued to be done both ways to the end.
2) One group of four had all newcomer dancers who were struggling because
they didn't even know which figures they should be listening for. What I
did in this dream is to hop off the stage and go play the tune right near
them with special attention to how I was playing it (it felt like speaking
carefully and articulating, enunciating) until they began to get it.
At the end of the dance, there was huge applause and the general feeling
was that if they listened to the music carefully, they COULD dance without
verbal instruction! Many of the dancers felt empowered and proud of what
they had accomplished for all their complaining at the start.

OK that was a dream, but even so - I feel that it is a good thing to strive
for this as musicians, callers and dancers. This can be the ideal we
envision as we try to improve our individual parts in this magical
conglomerate of sound and movement.
Note: I think it is interesting in this dream (when I should think there
are no limits) that there were those 2 flaws in what would have otherwise
been an ideal dance. Perhaps it was my subconscious telling me where to
look for the trouble spots.

Look - I'm a dreamer and I have an idealistic attitude about what life can
hold so I think all of what you suggest IS theoretically possible but
probably would never actually happen. From the responses to my suggestion,
I fear many have forgotten that we were discussing whether caller-less ECD
should be considered an ideal or not,  or maybe "ideal" means something
different to me. For me an ideal is, that towards which we strive and in
the striving we gain benefit. There are moments when we may taste the
ideal. Whether the moment is 1 phrase, 1 time through a 32 bar dance, the
entire dance, or the entire evening becomes a diminishing likelihood as you
stated. Your extrapolation to different dancers responding to different
instruments is indeed what we are aiming for when we pick fiddle and
recorder (rather than 2 fiddles) as the two instruments for John Talis'
Canon. We select two different sounding instruments so the sound is easily
distinguishable. Why? - so that each set of corners can follow the phrasing
and "instructions" of their specific instrument. To another suggestion you
made, I HAVE experimented with altering the dance by changing the music but
you have to warn the dancers that this is what you are going to do or else
they will stubbornly stick to the figures they started with, no matter how
at odds with the message the musicians convey.
Some melodies may have a "perfect" companion choreography and others are
more generic and well-suited to a variety of interpretations. When writing
dances, I use this idea of "the music will tell you" as just one aspect. As
you know from my other contributions to the list, I look at a multitude of
aspects for guidance and one that is equally important is the choreographic
context itself. Simply starting off with what best fits the first 4 bars
will rarely give you the whole perfect dance. You have to ask what each
part of the melody is saying. Then you take the most poignant and least
controversial choreographical statements in the tune (often not the first 4
bars) and ask what CAN come before and what CAN come after and then what
would dancers LIKE to come before and LIKE to come after... Gradually the
dance grows around the least ambiguous figures and sometimes if I feel
there is compelling choreographical reason for going one way where the tune
goes another, I may change the tune to suit the dance. In all these cases,
the goal for me is to compose something where the caller's role will be one
of a facilitator to offer clarification where the music is unclear. When
playing the music it is also my intent to render the caller obsolete by the
manner in which I play. We achieve these ideals with varying success. For
example, although I hear a cast in the melody at the end of Dublin Bay, I
take issue with the turns that follow the setting at the beginning. I feel
the melody asks the dancers to do 3 closely related figures in the first
few bars and not a set then turn their corners.  The choreographer didn't
do what I would with the same melody - so what? I mention this dance
because here is a dance where I would NOT expect dancers to arrive at the
beginning simply by listening to the music. This doesn't mean that the
musicians should stop TRYING to convey the calls through the melody.

Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:33:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:32:37 -0400
From: Jim Joyner <jajoyner-AT-
erols.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should we caller-less ECD be an ideal
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20020722145002.01df8d20-AT-
pop.erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_FXljYZEV4S56+y7SzVPiCg)"


--Boundary_(ID_FXljYZEV4S56+y7SzVPiCg)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

"Should caller-less ECD be an ideal"?  For whom?  The dancer?  Or the 
caller?  (As is clearly evident in Western Square Dance, I feel that some 
callers call for themselves; i.e., to suit themselves, and not for the dancers)

As purely (odd word to use in reference to me) a dancer; i.e., I am not a 
musician and not a caller, I would have to say that "caller-less" is NOT my 
ideal.  While not a long time dancer, I do have a few years of ECD 
experience and most of my partners do not run off screaming into the night 
so I must do alright (or people are very polite).  And while I am sure that 
with certain "old standards" I really wouldn't need calling at all, I do 
not attend dances and balls to be mentally challenged.  I attend to relax, 
move to the lovely music, perform intricate figures with my partner and the 
other dancers as called by the caller, and simply enjoy myself.

I DO NOT attend ECDs to be constantly challenged to remember the steps and 
figures, and be constantly on edge lest I forget or can't remember, and in 
so doing ruin someone else's enjoyable dance.  This is stress that I do not 
need and it takes ALL of the enjoyment out of dancing.  In the past I have 
unknowingly attended balls where there was to be no calling at all and did 
not dance the entire evening.

Perhaps I have stepped on enough toes for now.

Jim Joyner

--Boundary_(ID_FXljYZEV4S56+y7SzVPiCg)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html>
<font color="#0000FF"><i>&quot;Should caller-less ECD be an
ideal&quot;?&nbsp; For whom?&nbsp; The dancer?&nbsp; Or the caller?&nbsp;
(As is clearly evident in Western Square Dance, I feel that some callers
call for themselves; i.e., to suit themselves, and not for the
dancers)<br>
<br>
As purely (odd word to use in reference to me) a dancer; i.e., I am not a
musician and not a caller, I would have to say that
&quot;caller-less&quot; is NOT <u>my</u> ideal.&nbsp; While not a long
time dancer, I do have a few years of ECD experience and most of my
partners do not run off screaming into the night so I must do alright (or
people are very polite).&nbsp; And while I am sure that with certain
&quot;old standards&quot; I really wouldn't need calling at all, I do not
attend dances and balls to be mentally challenged.&nbsp; I attend to
relax, move to the lovely music, perform intricate figures with my
partner and the other dancers as called by the caller, and simply enjoy
myself.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
I DO NOT attend ECDs to be constantly challenged to remember the steps
and figures, and be constantly on edge lest I forget or can't remember,
and in so doing ruin someone else's enjoyable dance.&nbsp; This is stress
that I do not need and it takes ALL of the enjoyment out of
dancing.&nbsp; In the past I have unknowingly attended balls where there
was to be no calling at all and did not dance the entire evening.<br>
<br>
Perhaps I have stepped on enough toes for now.<br>
<br>
Jim Joyner</font></i></html>

--Boundary_(ID_FXljYZEV4S56+y7SzVPiCg)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 12:47:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 15:46:38 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should  caller-less ECD be an ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFC5E4C4BC.42E33A31-ON85256BFE.006BF702-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


"Should caller-less ECD be an ideal"?  For whom?  The dancer?  Or the
caller?  (As is clearly evident in Western Square Dance, I feel that some
callers call for themselves; i.e., to suit themselves, and not for the
dancers)

As purely (odd word to use in reference to me) a dancer; i.e., I am not a
musician and not a caller, I would have to say that "caller-less" is NOT my
ideal.  While not a long time dancer, I do have a few years of ECD
experience and most of my partners do not run off screaming into the night
so I must do alright (or people are very polite).  And while I am sure that
with certain "old standards" I really wouldn't need calling at all, I do
not attend dances and balls to be mentally challenged.  I attend to relax,
move to the lovely music, perform intricate figures with my partner and the
other dancers as called by the caller, and simply enjoy myself.

I DO NOT attend ECDs to be constantly challenged to remember the steps and
figures, and be constantly on edge lest I forget or can't remember, and in
so doing ruin someone else's enjoyable dance.  This is stress that I do not
need and it takes ALL of the enjoyment out of dancing.  In the past I have
unknowingly attended balls where there was to be no calling at all and did
not dance the entire evening.

Perhaps I have stepped on enough toes for now.

Jim Joyner

As I thought I had said several times and in multiple ways, the
"caller-less" of which I speak does not rely on memory nor is it meant to
be any special challenge. This experience (where the music speaks to you,
loud as words) is less "challenging" than the situations where you have to
listen to 2 things at once (i.e., the instructions from the caller and the
band). If you have not yet experienced this, I hope you will some day.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 13:19:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 21:14:49 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bob Keller
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000801c231bc$707f5180$590f7ad5-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Does anyone have an email address different from
rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com which is bouncing with a “mailbox full”
message?

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:27:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 00:26:11 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: starting with a mixer
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: John Turner <John.Turner15-AT-
which.net>
Message-ID: <003a01c231d7$3c3919e0$680286d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I wonder if anyone can help me get in touch with Philippe Callens as I fear
he is out of town at present. Please reply off list.
Thanks
Alan Corkett
-----Original Message-----
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:43:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:45:09 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b96246e54030-AT-
[140.186.54.200]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020722145002.01df8d20-AT-
pop.erols.com>

Well, it's certainly good to hear both sides of this question.  Mr 
Joyner's opinion that the caller is part of his pleasant dance 
experience is good to hear.  It would be interesting to know of 
others who hold this opinion.

So I'll start by saying that for me, the dream dance evening is one 
in which there's no more than a talk-through and every dancer has 
immaculate timing, an appropriate sense of humor about themselves and 
the dance, perfect music matching the mood of each dance, variety in 
the moods and keys, and they even know how to do the ending of John 
Tallis' canon when the time comes simply by hearing the caller tell 
the band "last time" or better still by noticing the caller waving 
"last time" to the band from his or her place on the floor.

Oh, and a room full of people who want to dance with all of each other, too.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:02:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 16:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KKEIH69KYS8YDXT4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <5.0.0.25.0.20020722145002.01df8d20-AT-
pop.erols.com>

Emily writes:

> Well, it's certainly good to hear both sides of this question.  Mr
> Joyner's opinion that the caller is part of his pleasant dance
> experience is good to hear.  It would be interesting to know of
> others who hold this opinion.

> So I'll start by saying that for me, the dream dance evening is one
> in which there's no more than a talk-through and every dancer has
> immaculate timing, an appropriate sense of humor about themselves and
> the dance, perfect music matching the mood of each dance, variety in
> the moods and keys, and they even know how to do the ending of John
> Tallis' canon when the time comes simply by hearing the caller tell
> the band "last time" or better still by noticing the caller waving
> "last time" to the band from his or her place on the floor.

> Oh, and a room full of people who want to dance with all of each other, too.

I think that last one is probably the one thing common to the various 
peak-experience dance scenarios I've experienced.

Last year at Mendocino English Week, after skit/talent night, when half the
camp was off to bed, David Newitt led camper musicians in playing popular 
ECD tunes, and various people who recognized the tune started doing the dances,
without complete sets and without calling, and others joined in, and the 
dance just happened.  (We only got away with about three of these before
running out of tunes the band wanted to play that everybody knew, and then I
called the rest from the set on the fly; I was happiest with the first call of
Jack's Maggot (called to the last of the B music): "first man cross   and hey
for three   with the two women - Go!")

But I've had similar amounts of fun from having new ECDers present who really,
really dig it, and who wouldn't have a chance to dig it so much if they didn't
have a prompt and a couple of calls.  (This was one of the really nice things
about the Sebastopol "Mad Robin" Ball this June.  With a program of favorites
in standard interpretations, experienced dancers didn't have to work to get it,
new dancers were introduced to the favorites, calling that lasted as long as
necessary didn't have to last very long, new dancers caught on very quickly,
and we got to hear a lot of the lovely music.  It was a really delightful ball,
which I'm hesitant to plug here because I don't want it to get too crowded.)

For me, then, a peak experience really doesn't require an experienced crowd
that knows all the dances.  I think I could _prevent_ a peak experience by
picking entirely unfamiliar complicated dances - a "New Wine in Old Bottles"
Ball with no workshop, advertised as "beginners welcome!", but I'm fine with a
walk through and necessary calling.

An exception is that set dances are often more fun when everyone feels
confident and happy about them, rather than stressing, and are likely to know
which corners to cut only through long experience.  Most people aren't going to
do Fandango or St. Margaret's Hill superbly the first time they do it, while in
a longways duple or triple you get many tries at it.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:39:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 22:36:23 -0400
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal? ...Another Ideal
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c231f1$bd8cdd00$6b02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At tonight's weekly ECD dance gathering in Lexington, we had 18 in
attendance. It was an unusual mix for us: six were aged ten or under; we
celebrated another dancer's 72th birthday tonight with cake and song; two
adults were new dancers (one in attendance for the first time, the other
there for about the third or fourth week) and one other adult was an
intermediate level dancer. And we had a blast.

All but the youngest child ( a five year old) decided to dance. Four of them
were children from dancing families, with some previous dance experience,
the fifth was a friend who'd never even seen ECD. We had dances for adults
and kids, dances just for adults, and dances just for children. Yes, there
was confusion at times. Timing and phrasing were often erratic. People
sometimes went in entirely the wrong directions. "Giving weight" wasn't even
mentioned (I'd estimate our weights ranged from about 45 to close to 200).
Eye contact wasn't always there, either.

 But everyone finished the dances with smiles on their faces. Adults danced
with adults, kids danced with kids, and adults and children danced together.
Experienced dancers danced with one another and with the new dancers, and
the new dancers danced with each other as well. There was little deliberate
effort to create what's usually considered a good mix, i.e. children and
newer dancers with experienced adults. But it worked!

And we all knew it worked when the ten-year -old boy who'd never danced
before and who had doubts about it exclaimed, "That was fun! Can we do
another one??" following the "just for kids" dance ("Heartsease", I think it
was - could be wrong. In addition to the five-year- old, one of the little
girls also chose to sit this one out, leaving the two eight-year-olds and
the two ten-year-olds dancing).

So how did this dance nirvana come about? Three of the experienced men
dancers were formerly Berea College Country Dancers. Three former morris
dance musicians (all also experienced EC dancers) were there. Another dancer
plays for ECD.  Three, possibly four former morris dancers were present. Two
of the little girls are learning Irish step dancing.  One of the new EC
dancers is a former clogger. Our main caller studied ballet years ago. Our
second caller (father of tonight's three dancing children)  is one of the
Berea alums and one of the former morris musicians and dancers. At least two
of those present have toured Germany, China, and Czechoslovakia as part of
the Berea Alumni Dancers and Friends dance exchanges.

So many of those in attendance this evening had participated in various
forms of dance and/or dance music throughout their years in the dance
community, just as have many of those on this list. Our newer dancers had
previous dance experience in other related genres. But more importantly to
the evening's success,  all there tonight were friendly, genuinely
interested in one another, and welcoming, tolerant, and open to our newer
dancers, whether adults or children.

I think that's the key to the whole thing. Yes, it's great when the music
tells you...and it obviously speaks to many of us. It's fun, and it feels
rewarding to get through an uncalled, unprompted dance well. Minimizing
calling allows some of us to concentrate more fully on the music (but as I,
with over 24 years of  ECD experience and 13 years of playing for morris,
have been known to go in entirely different directions from the rest of the
set when swept away by the rapture of the melody, perhaps I'm better off  -
or at least the set is better off - if there's at least a bit of initial
calling to keep me focussed on the dance until the kinesthetics kick in).

So I don't think call-free dancing, gorgeous music, perfect phrasing and
awareness of the physical presence of one's partner and others in one's set
is all there is to English Country Dance nirvana. I think what I was
privileged to experience this evening may come closer - at least for me. We
were hardly perfect dancers, but we were a community.

Susan Booker,
happily dancing in
Lexington, KY

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 03:27:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:19:47 +0100
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Announcement
To: psartin-AT-
attglobal.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3D3D2DC3.823F7824-AT-
attglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Belshazzar's Feast, Andrew Shaw and WildGoose Records present:

Mr Kynaston's Famous Dance Volume II - The She Favourite

1. Softly Good Tummas
2. Whiskers
3.The She Favourite
4. De'il Take the Warr
5. Vaughan's Ramble
6. Whitsun Holidays or The Parson in the Pease
7. Bickerstaffe's Prophesie
8. Evan's Delight
9. Fop's Fancy
10. Dudmason Hall
11. The Gay Young Squire
12. Old Hob or The Mouse Trap
13. Orange Nan
14. Well Done Jack

A selection from Nathaniel Kynaston's collections of 1711-1718.
Andrew will shortly release the companion book of the same name.

Belshazzar's Feast and Andrew Shaw will be together at Sidmouth and
Broadstairs Festivals.

 In the UK and Europe, Mr Kynaston's Famous Dance Volume II (WGS 310 CD)
will be available from me, and also Music Folk, Honest Jo, ADA and AADS.

In the US, it will be available form Sidestreet/Elderly and CDSS,
presently.


Paul.

___________________________

Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM

May Cottage, Wherwell,
Hampshire, SP11 7JS

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:08:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:08:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andy Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal? ...Another Ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020723150808.8802.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net> wrote:
> "Giving weight" wasn't even mentioned (I'd estimate our weights
> ranged from about 45 to close to 200).

This goes back to what I've always said about "giving weight". It is
about finding a balance between two people, regardless of the size
difference. _Everyone_ should be carrying their own weight and should
never be depending upon someone else to carry them. It means
supporting each other in a balanced way. I've always said that to
tell beginners to "give weight" doesn't tell them what you are trying
to acheive because they haven't experienced the feeling. Telling them
to support each other makes a lot more sense.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 09:42:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 12:42:03 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal? ...Another Ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF8BC7C039.1CDBE566-ON85256BFF.005B456D-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I agree whole-heartedly with Susan's description of the magic in her
community dance. It is not at variance with the ideal I described, but
perhaps necessary and certainly equally important to strive for. Although
we have focused much of the discussion on the music and caller (or
minimalization of that role), the dancers are also, of course, part of the
essence of the whole event. Your dance sounds perfect in numerous ways and
I expect you would find mine have much in common - the sundry backgrounds,
all ages, etc...
CK

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:19:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 18:19:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Giovanni De <sbecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Los Angeles Playford Ball; shameless plug
To: ecdlist ecdlist <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20020724011914.2670.qmail-AT-
web11208.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Good day all.
the second Los Angeles Playford Ball is only 8 
weeks away (on 21 september). we have a good band, a
wonderful hall with plenty of windows and a rose
garden just outside the french doors (for pictures and
rest between dances); only miss you.

But just in time for the Ball, Southwest 
Airlines is offering great airfares flying into LAX.
Today's specials are:
LAX/Burbank/Ontario  $34 one-way, to/from Oakland, CA
LAX/Ontario   $34 one-way, to/from Phoenix, AZ
Burbank  $54 one-way, to/from Reno/Tahoe, NV
Burbank  $59 one-way, to/from Spokane, WA
Ontario  $94 one-way, to/from Orlando, FL

Inexpensive airfare and great dancing; who can 
ask for any better excuse to visit the Big Orange?

For information about the ball, check the web 
page at www.geocities.com and click on the word 
"Playford"
For information about airfares, go to 
www.iflyswa.com

Thank you. Giovanni De Amici

=====
for information about English Country Dance 
in and around Los Angeles, please check our web
page at: www.geocities.com/sbecd

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 21:03:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 23:01:54 -0500
From: Bill McDonald <mcdjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal? ...Another Ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003101c232c6$fc2dd250$e418bcd0-AT-
dallas.sil.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000701c231f1$bd8cdd00$6b02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>

Nirvanist Booker wrote: < ...I don't think call-free dancing, gorgeous
music, perfect phrasing and awareness of the physical presence of one's
partner and others in one's set is all there is to English Country Dance
nirvana. I think what I was privileged to experience this evening may come
closer - at least for me. We were hardly perfect dancers, but we were a
community>

Bravo, Susan!  Well put!

You've captured the quintessence of what this unwashed list-lurker is
personally looking for in an English Country Dance experience.  As a student
of the past director of Berea's excellent program, I happen to know that one
of the primary purposes for Berea's involvement in traditional dance forms
was precisely as a means of building community.  We live in a society where
human interaction is 1) increasingly reduced to two dimensions (e.g.,
e-mail, video and telephone) and 2) often dependent upon sex, age or
skill-based prerequisites.  ECD offers a wonderful way for children of all
ages to interact as a community and to enjoy building a beautiful shared
experience, both in terms of the artform and from a psycho-social
perspective.

I'm a caller for two groups here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that meet once
each month.  Each group averages 60-70 people (some nights the attendance
can exceed 100) ranging in age from tiny babes-in-arms all the way up to 70+
year olds.  Fully a quarter of the group is under 15 years of age. The
primary focus is about building the sort of community spirit that Susan
describes.  Most of our regulars were completely unfamiliar with ECD even
three years ago, but now there is a consistent core of expertise that has
developed, making the likelihood of broken sets much smaller than it used to
be while at the same time increasing the deep sense of satisfaction that
comes with any group-shared success.  Most of these people would frankly be
uncomfortable with the almost-obsessive standards regarding eye-contact and
perfect form that dominates many of the more "sophisticated" groups.  It's
just a group of ordinary folk who have come to the place now where they
value the relationships more than the genre.  ECD provides the excuse to
connect with other people and to enjoy their company--an opportunity that
for many Americans has unfortunately become too rare--a rarity that is (in
my not-so-humble opinion) at the root of many of our society's thorniest
ills.

McDjr


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 05:56:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:55:26 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: giving weight, was  Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E17XLfq-00065e-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



Andy writes:
>This goes back to what I've always said about "giving weight". It is
>about finding a balance between two people, regardless of the size
>difference. _Everyone_ should be carrying their own weight and should
>never be depending upon someone else to carry them. It means
>supporting each other in a balanced way. I've always said that to
>tell beginners to "give weight" doesn't tell them what you are trying
>to acheive because they haven't experienced the feeling. Telling them
>to support each other makes a lot more sense.

Chiming in with a random historic note:

To the best of my knowledge, the whole "giving weight" concept in set
dances is a 20th-century invention - it was relevant in round dancing
in the 19th century, but not in set dances.  I suspect that it was one
of the elements that made the waltz so scandalous - turning without
weight and turning with weight feel very different and the weight adds
a significant "spin" which I think was part of what was so shocking
(along with the position).  I don't think it's even possible to give
weight while doing the proper steps for most set dances before 1830;
it would mess with the balance needed.  I think we gave weight briefly
in a baroque dance whose name and genre escape me at the moment, but
that was a dance for two and in an allemand turning figure rather than
a right hand turn or similar.  And that was a workshop situation; I
think it would have been more challenging had we been properly costumed.

I can't usually unprogram myself enough to give much weight in MECD,
but it doesn't usually cause a problem - not everyone is consistently
giving weight anyway, and I can balance against someone else who is if
I have to.  Contra is another story, and I always feel off-balance
while doing it (which isn't very often.)  One can always detect a
contra dancer at a vintage ball!

We now return you to your regular MECD discussion....

Susan 
(just back from a weekend in the 1890's - ball, tea, croquet, and my
first experiment in properly dressed ocean bathing - combination, skirt,
stockings, hat, and all.  The other beachgoers were boggled!)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:27:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mariel Johnson <marielann-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: questions about beginner's workshop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020724152745.41244.qmail-AT-
web10008.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Hello!  I’m not sure if this is exactly the correct
forum for my question, so please answer off-list if
it’s not appropriate to the list.  

My name is Mariel Johnson, and I’m a sophomore at
Hillsdale College in Michigan.  I have been interested
in English Country Dancing for about a year, and have
been able to attend several dances with a couple of my
friends and have had an excellent time.  I would like
to organize an ECD workshop for beginners at my school
this fall, but am unsure about how to begin.

My main problem is that I don’t know how to find a
caller who would be willing to teach a class of
beginners.  If I could arrange a workshop (probably
just a one-day thing), I think there’d be enough
interest at the college to get around 30 people, and
at the very least 20.  We would also need to hire a
musician, though we could probably only afford a piano
player.

What I would like to ask the list is for help in
finding a caller who would be interested in teaching a
group of beginners some Saturday in September or
October.  We will pay, of course, but our budget is
quite small, unless I can find a group on campus to
sponsor the event.  I don’t really know what the going
rates are for callers and/or musicians.  My college is
a bit out in the middle of nowhere – it’s roughly two
hours from Detroit and Toledo, and about three from
Chicago.  

Any help and suggestions would be much appreciated.

Mariel Johnson


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:51:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:51:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: questions about beginner's workshop
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200207241551.g6OFpe318564-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Mariel Johnson writes:
> 
> My name is Mariel Johnson, and I’m a sophomore at
> Hillsdale College in Michigan.  I have been interested
> in English Country Dancing for about a year, and have
> been able to attend several dances with a couple of my
> friends and have had an excellent time.  I would like
> to organize an ECD workshop for beginners at my school
> this fall, but am unsure about how to begin.

> What I would like to ask the list is for help in
> finding a caller who would be interested in teaching a
> group of beginners some Saturday in September or
> October.  We will pay, of course, but our budget is
> quite small, unless I can find a group on campus to
> sponsor the event.  I don’t really know what the going
> rates are for callers and/or musicians.  My college is
> a bit out in the middle of nowhere – it’s roughly two
> hours from Detroit and Toledo, and about three from
> Chicago.  

   How far are you from Ann Arbor?  Have you attended any of the dances
there?  They have a fairly active ECD group as I understand.  I've
called there occasionally in the past.  You might contact Eric Arnold
at eba-AT-
umich.edu.  He should be able to give you some leads on
callers and musicians and some advice on how to organize your event.

Good luck.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:59:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:03:07 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: questions about beginner's workshop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020724111449.01c28110-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

At 08:27 AM 7/24/2002 -0700, Mariel Johnson wrote:
>Hello!  I’m not sure if this is exactly the correct
>forum for my question, so please answer off-list if
>it’s not appropriate to the list.
>
>My name is Mariel Johnson, and I’m a sophomore at
>Hillsdale College in Michigan.  I have been interested
>in English Country Dancing for about a year, and have
>been able to attend several dances with a couple of my
>friends and have had an excellent time.  I would like
>to organize an ECD workshop for beginners at my school
>this fall, but am unsure about how to begin.

Hello, Mariel, and you are _definitely_ on topic, in my opinion.  There are 
lovely folks in Ann Arbor [Eric Arnold, Greg Meisner, and Don Theyken], in 
Kalamazoo [Mike Clark], and in Chicago [Tom Senior and Barbara Cool].

Eric: eba-AT-
umich.edu
Greg:gregory.p.meisner-AT-
gm.com
Don: dtheyken-AT-
mindspring.com
Mike: michael.clark-AT-
wmich.edu
Tom & Barbara: seniort-AT-
newtrier.k12.il.is

Another excellent source of advice and help is the Country Dance & Song 
Society: www.cdss.org
It probably is too late to apply for anything for this fall, but CDSS's 
Gadd-Merrill Fund has been known to provide some funding help for 
worthwhile projects.  Here's the URL: 
http://www.cdss.org/pdf/gaddmerrill_guidelines.pdf

Good luck, and happy dancing!
Sharon Green

>My main problem is that I don’t know how to find a
>caller who would be willing to teach a class of
>beginners.  If I could arrange a workshop (probably
>just a one-day thing), I think there’d be enough
>interest at the college to get around 30 people, and
>at the very least 20.  We would also need to hire a
>musician, though we could probably only afford a piano
>player.
>
>What I would like to ask the list is for help in
>finding a caller who would be interested in teaching a
>group of beginners some Saturday in September or
>October.  We will pay, of course, but our budget is
>quite small, unless I can find a group on campus to
>sponsor the event.  I don’t really know what the going
>rates are for callers and/or musicians.  My college is
>a bit out in the middle of nowhere ­ it’s roughly two
>hours from Detroit and Toledo, and about three from
>Chicago.
>
>Any help and suggestions would be much appreciated.
>
>Mariel Johnson
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
>http://health.yahoo.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:13:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:10:52 -0400
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Ball Etiquette 101" - c.1860s
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c23335$12069620$7002ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

An interesting discussion is going on at present on the Civil War
Reenactors' Board, concerning proper behavior at a mid-19th century ball.
See http://www.cwreenactors.com/dcforum/civilian/2893.html#

There are some interesting similarities - and contrasts - with generally
accepted ECD Ball conduct. But then, we are not reenactors...in fact, most
of us would be considered extremely farby in the reenacting community!

Susan Booker
Lexington, KY

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:30:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:28:54 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: questions about beginner's workshop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <004601c23337$962944a0$1f4f4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20020724152745.41244.qmail-AT-
web10008.mail.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Mariel Johnson <marielann-AT-
yahoo.com>

<<What I would like to ask the list is for help in
finding a caller who would be interested in teaching a
group of beginners some Saturday in September or
October.  We will pay, of course, but our budget is
quite small, unless I can find a group on campus to
sponsor the event.  I don't really know what the going
rates are for callers and/or musicians.  My college is
a bit out in the middle of nowhere - it's roughly two
hours from Detroit and Toledo, and about three from
Chicago.  >>

You may find a caller and musicians in East Lansing, which I gather has an
ECD community. As for finding sponsorship help on campus, have you tried the
Campus Y?

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:48:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:42:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: No ECD list service August 9-11
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KKH6EH301K8YDXT4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECDers --

Sorry for the early notice, which we'll all have forgotten about by the time
this rolls around.  However, now is when they're telling me about it, and I'm
likely to be out of town when it actually happens.

They're going to shut down all electric power to the main computer building at
SLAC on August 9, Friday, 3:00 pm PDT.  This is where the routers that connect
SLAC to the Internet live, so the whole site will be off the net.  It is our
profound hope in my laboratory that our investment in network infrastructure
will keep our own systems talking to each other, but we have no separate pipe
to the Internet, and in any case, mail for the ECD list goes through the SLAC
mail gateway machines, which are also located in the main computer building.

What does this mean?

If you send mail to the ECD list after 3:00 pm PST on August 9, it won't be
delivered until the mail gateway comes back up, which is probably sometime
fairly late on Sunday, 11 August. Your mail will probably get through
eventually.  Don't send it again unless you don't see it come through by Monday
evening.  (There'll probably be a big delivery backlog.)

It also means that you won't be able to reach the archives or the ECD home
page.

I'll try to remember to post this again closer to the time.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:38:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 21:16:53 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Announcement
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020725.221732.-833257.17.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Thanks for the notice.  I'll buy one ASAP.

And, bravo!

Hope you're well.  I did a quick trip to England with Ken McFarland's
group... no time for visiting however.

Gene

On Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:19:47 +0100 Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
writes:
> Belshazzar's Feast, Andrew Shaw and WildGoose Records present:
> 
> Mr Kynaston's Famous Dance Volume II - The She Favourite
> 
> 1. Softly Good Tummas
> 2. Whiskers
> 3.The She Favourite
> 4. De'il Take the Warr
> 5. Vaughan's Ramble
> 6. Whitsun Holidays or The Parson in the Pease
> 7. Bickerstaffe's Prophesie
> 8. Evan's Delight
> 9. Fop's Fancy
> 10. Dudmason Hall
> 11. The Gay Young Squire
> 12. Old Hob or The Mouse Trap
> 13. Orange Nan
> 14. Well Done Jack
> 
> A selection from Nathaniel Kynaston's collections of 1711-1718.
> Andrew will shortly release the companion book of the same name.
> 
> Belshazzar's Feast and Andrew Shaw will be together at Sidmouth and
> Broadstairs Festivals.
> 
>  In the UK and Europe, Mr Kynaston's Famous Dance Volume II (WGS 310 
> CD)
> will be available from me, and also Music Folk, Honest Jo, ADA and 
> AADS.
> 
> In the US, it will be available form Sidestreet/Elderly and CDSS,
> presently.
> 
> 
> Paul.
> 
> ___________________________
> 
> Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM
> 
> May Cottage, Wherwell,
> Hampshire, SP11 7JS
> 
> Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
> Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798
> 
> 
> 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 07:57:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:55:52 -0400
From: Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Workshop NYC Sunday 7/28
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <E17Y6VU-00026f-00-AT-
black.generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


If anyone is in the New York City area and free Sunday afternoon, my
regular monthly historic dance workshop this month is doing early
Playford dances (1651-1670 era).  This will be a two-hour workshop,
and will likely include some of the following: The Spanish Jeepsie,
Greenwood, Blew Cap, Jameko, Oaken Leaves, and Hit or Misse.  The
reconstructions are my own and often are not much like what I've done
at MECD events; please leave preconceptions at home.  The workshop
aims at newer dancers, but we do get quite a range of skill.

The early Playford workshop will be preceded by a one-hour
intermediate class on Jane Austen era set dance; this is open, but the
steps may lose you if you are not already familiar with the period.

PLEASE RSVP to: meredith-AT-
elegantarts.org - the number of people we
are expecting affects how I prepare for the class!

Time:
1:00-2:00pm - Jane Austen era 
2:00-4:00pm - Early Playford

Location:
Hop, Swing, and a Jump, 132 Crosby Street #2
for directions, see our webpage, http://www.elegantarts.org/

Cost:
$10 for first-time attendees, $15 if you do this regularly

EAS offers monthly historical social dance classes of the 15th through
early 20th centuries - Renaissance, 17th century country dance,
Regency/Jane Austen/1810's, American Civil War/1860's, Belle
Epoque/1890's, and Ragtime/1910's.  See our website for more
information.  http://www.elegantarts.org/.

To receive these announcements consistently, please email
info-AT-
elegantarts.org to be added to our mailing list - I only announce
on the ECD list the workshops a) that include something that resembles
country or set dance, and b) that I remember to post (and it's always
at the last minute.)

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:55:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:55:22 -0700
From: bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What is this dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD038D659C-AT-
ALEX2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

A friend saw an ECD in Sicilian circle formation with the distinctive Lilli Burlero figure -- pass opposite R shoulder, pass partner R shoulder backing up; repeat to home.  He asks: does the figure have a name?  I ask: what dance is it? 

  -Bruce

bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com  Tel: +1 650 485 2818  Fax: +1 650 485 4917
Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 08:58:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:15:31 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What is this dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF92249766.55FACD03-ON85256C05.00592854-AT-
risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Well--risking error here--doesn't Long Live London have this figure?
Sometimes called "the Lilliburlero figure," but sometimes
"rights-and-rights," as opposed to "rights-and-lefts."

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 12:51:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:50:55 -0400
From: Blank/DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What is this dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D459C9F.F1EBE1B7-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD038D659C-AT-
ALEX2>

Hi, Bruce,
    Fried Herman calls the figure, "rights and rights."  The dance is a Pat Shaw confection, off the top of my head, Long Live London.
Al

bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com wrote:

> A friend saw an ECD in Sicilian circle formation with the distinctive Lilli Burlero figure -- pass opposite R shoulder, pass partner R shoulder backing up; repeat to home.  He asks: does the figure have a name?  I ask: what dance is it?

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:30:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:30:06 -0700
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-
opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Should caller-less ECD be an ideal? ...Another Ideal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3D46245E.312EE85A-AT-
opendoor.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000701c231f1$bd8cdd00$6b02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer> <003101c232c6$fc2dd250$e418bcd0-AT-
dallas.sil.org>

  The sense of community and people interacting with music and each other
within that community are critical to peak experiences.  During the Mendocino
English week, my peak experience was during the final dance program of the
week.  About midway through the program a breaker tripped taking the
amplification system with it.  This was just prior to the briefing for Rafe's
Waltz.  Gene Murrow was leading this portion of the evening, The circumstance
brought a focus to room that was remarkable.  The P. A. could not be relied on
to amplify the instructions or the music over the ambient sound from the dance
floor.  Gene did not try to shout but addressed the talk through clearly and
succinctly.  The dancers were quite attentive.  As the dance began the dancers
stayed quiet to hear the very fine music.  Helping within the sets was with
eyes and minimal gesture, footfalls were also quiet.  There was unity in the
community and it was a sublime moment in time.

At home during our first class after the Mendocino week we had the kind of
evening that Susan and Bill have aptly alluded to.  Would that the world as a
whole could reap the rewards of cooperation in human endeavor.

Chris


                          "The country dance form can be thought of as an
exquisite vessel,
                                        in itself beautiful in shape, yet
highly abstract.
                             We can choose to fill this vessel with whatever
meaning we like.

                                                              If we like,
                                            we can pursue a particular
friendship;
                                           we can rejoice in a sense of
community;
                           we can see in the music and the dance the highest of
spiritual values;
                                                   we can see it as good fun.
                                    The dance is all of these and greater than
all of them."

                                                    Carl Wittman (1943-1986)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:57:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:35:03 -0700
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What is this dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020729113341.00a1c0d0-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 08:55 AM 7/29/2002 -0700, Bruce wrote:

>A friend saw an ECD in Sicilian circle formation with the distinctive 
>Lilli Burlero figure -- pass opposite R shoulder, pass partner R shoulder 
>backing up; repeat to home.  He asks: does the figure have a name?  I ask: 
>what dance is it?


Sounds like Long Live London.  I don't think the figure has a name of its 
own.

Victoria in Seattle



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:12:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:17:07 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The quiet hall... dancing without amplification
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b96ce40c2d2f-AT-
[165.247.11.156]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000701c231f1$bd8cdd00$6b02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer> <003101c232c6$fc2dd250$e418bcd0-AT-
dallas.sil.org> <3D46245E.312EE85A-AT-
opendoor.com>

>Gene Murrow was leading this portion of the evening, The circumstance
>brought a focus to room that was remarkable.  The P. A. could not be relied on
>to amplify the instructions or the music over the ambient sound from the dance
>floor.  Gene did not try to shout but addressed the talk through clearly and
>succinctly.  The dancers were quite attentive.  As the dance began the dancers
>stayed quiet to hear the very fine music.  Helping within the sets was with
>eyes and minimal gesture, footfalls were also quiet.  There was unity in the
>community and it was a sublime moment in time.

While this doesn't work everywhere or equally well at all times, i've 
noticed a distinct and wonderful feel to an evening of dance without 
mics, amps, monitors and other sound modification boxes.

As Chris Sackett rightly pointed out, usually the dancers become more 
attentive during the walk-through, less talky during dancing, and 
much quieter with their feet.  A gentler spirit of cooperation 
becomes much more likely.  (It's the flip side of the increase in 
crowd noise which happens each time a sound system is turned up a 
notch... the spiral effect!)

When it works well, it can feel like magic.

Of course, it doesn't always work.  The Cape Cod dances which 
Priscilla Adams and I have been doing are intentionally acoustic.  We 
have a lovely historic grange hall, built for acoustic events, and 
small enough to feel neighborly.  Still, if we get much past 30 
cheerful dancers, and the dance leader has to work a bit to be heard.

No problems with the music being heard in this hall, even with a 
crowd, but a few instruments might need some subtle boost to balance 
well.  One could use a small pickup, but it's still possible to do 
some sound balancing by placing louder instruments near the rear of a 
stage, and softer ones right at the front.

I know that i have a bias... I love dancing to the sound of acoustic 
music, and the atmosphere that seems to follow that softer music. 
[OK, ok, i'm shuffling my soapbox back into it's cabinet.]

Other people's experiences?

Cheers - Linda
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:37:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:36:55 -0400
From: Campbell Kaynor <Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The quiet hall... dancing without amplification
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFC15A5BB9.7C041437-ON85256C07.00538889-AT-
biogen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I agree that accoustic is best. I sometimes use some amplification to
balance the volume of baroque instruments with louder contemporary ones but
one can alternatively orchestrate the  band so that they take turns even in
real time (e.g., pass the announcement around the band, "only recorders and
harpsichord next time through"). The main reason why I sometimes use
amplification is so that the hired band can set the tone and the sit-ins
(regardless of ability) can "follow" rather than "dominate."  This is part
of how sit-ins are trained to provide the kind of music I want, and also,
some shy musicians are comforted by the knowledge that the dancers will be
hearing mostly the main band and they needn't worry about messing things
up.
At most of my dances, I have the gear ready to go, but I first take stock
of who is playing and usually start accoustically and only add
amplification if it seems necessary.
Cammy

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:55:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:55:13 -0700
From: bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: What is this dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD038D65B0-AT-
ALEX2>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It *is* "Long Live London." Thanks to all. 

  -Bruce

bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com  Tel: +1 650 485 2818  Fax: +1 650 485 4917
Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:08:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:08:37 -0400
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing w/o amplification - Maplewood, NJ 7/5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00f401c238ac$87b4d220$cf02010a-AT-
lorettapc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000701c231f1$bd8cdd00$6b02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer> <003101c232c6$fc2dd250$e418bcd0-AT-
dallas.sil.org> <3D46245E.312EE85A-AT-
opendoor.com> <a05100300b96ce40c2d2f-AT-
[165.247.11.156]>

> I know that i have a bias... I love dancing to the sound of acoustic
> music, and the atmosphere that seems to follow that softer music.
> Other people's experiences?

I agree-- the sound of acoustic music is great for dancing.  By the way, if
you are in the NY/NJ area and want to test this out in person, come to the
air conditioned DeHart Center in Maplewood, NJ next Monday evening at 7:30
PM.  I have been doing several consecutive Mondays of ECD for the IFD group
for the last three years.  This year Robin Russell, Norma Castle and Sue
Polansky will be playing acoustically.

I use CDs the first week and get the dancers familiar with the dances--for
some of them this is their first time doing ECD.  They are enthusiastic
about coming back next week to hear the band and  we also usually get a good
number experienced ECDancers the second week.

Here's another consideration about working acoustically.  As the caller, I
have found that my voice gets a real workout and I certainly need the break
in the middle.  Last Monday in order to have the people at the end of the
lines hear the CDs,. I had to raise the volume of my voice so the dancers
could hear me over the music. When we have the band,  I will also have to
call louder than I would using a microphone.  In an acoustic situation you
need to consider the size of the room, the length of the lines and the
caller's voice.

If you want directions to the dance email me at loretta-AT-
varisys.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:51:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Benjamin Stein <ecdscd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: September workshops-Amherst
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020731173540.34438.qmail-AT-
web20710.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Would someone please send me the information on the
September dances and worshops in South amherst, Mass.

Ben Stein
ecdscd-AT-
yahoo.com
Burlingotn, vt. 



> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:50:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: The quiet hall... dancing without amplification
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KKQYIQDK16HOVC4A-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECDers --

In my experience, amplification for ECD is the exception rather than the rule.
BACDS typically uses it only for balls and camps; BAERS (the Regency group)
only for the largest balls.  (The caller sometimes gets a mic at the Palo Alto
English dance, but the band hasn't in years.) 

The BAERS second-Friday dance parties have never used amplification.

I find I'm okay calling from the floor without amplification up to about 70
people for ECD or Regency.  [And we only get that many for a ball, so it works
out.]   For ceilidh, with electric instruments, we're all
amplified.  From the stage, I had better have a mic.  It may require some
effort (clapping hands, perhaps) for people to hush enough to realize that
you're talking, but when they do realize it they listen.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 17:55:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:54:13 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: The quiet hall... dancing without amplification
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001b01c238f5$f4b8f420$0b294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KKQYIQDK16HOVC4A-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

For St. Louis ECD, the band has always played unamplified at the regular
dances, usually amplified at balls, grand dances and some demos. For the
caller, we have a small portable speaker with a built-in amplifier and a
headset microphone, as otherwise he has to yell to be heard. Seems like a
reasonable compromise most of the time; I must say, though, that on the
occasions when we do have a PA system it's always refreshing to have the
subtleties of the music be audible; they often get lost when we play
acoustically.

On the other hand, since our regular dances are on weeknights it's *really*
nice to be able to come straight from work or dinner, set up the music
stands, tune and play, without having to go through another half-hour of
schlepping, plugging, etc.. What you gain on the straights you lose on the
roundabouts.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 19:47:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:35:50 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The quiet hall... dancing without amplification
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020731.223955.-838269.4.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Alan Winston - SSRL Central
Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:
> ... It may require some effort (clapping hands, perhaps) for people to
hush enough to 
> realize that you're talking, but when they do realize it they listen.

IMHO, this is an important part of making both acoustic events and "gigs
from hell" (drunken wedding parties, etc.) work: defining the chronology
so that folks know when to listen, and when they can simply talk or
dance.  My bag of tricks is:

1) informing the crowd in that brief few moments when you have their
attention at the start of the event that, from time to time, you will
need their rapt attention, and you will indicate so by [fill in your
preferred method] tooting on your recorder, clapping your hands, having
the pianist play a chord, raising 3 fingers Girl-Scout style, etc.  

2) being _rigorously succinct_  yet thorough when you get their
attention. 

3) using simple one- or two-word prompts and enunciating extremely
clearly while prompting over the music:  "star right,"  "circle left," 
"1's cast,"  etc.  Quit prompting as soon as possible (see previous
thread :-)  ).

4) allowing plenty of time for talking, socializing, milling about
between dances without asking folks to pay any attention to you.  That's
a big reason they're there, after all.

The common failure mode is trying to keep a moderate level of attention
and control throughout, usually by shouting, or saying "s-h-h-h" a lot. 
Either you've got 'em or you don't.

At the Mendocino dance Chris mentioned, the power failure (some lights
went out as well) was a great attention getter (hey, there's an idea...
have an assistant stand by the circuit-breaker box).  Power returned
during the dance.  Had it not, I would have resorted to steps 1 - 4 above
for the remainder.

And here's to more acoustic events!

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Musician, and power-free, scent-free, and gender-free caller
as appropriate

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination