Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:27:47 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 03:27:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: John Tallis's Canon Boldly Goes etc
To: ECD-AT-
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Alan held forth:

>The analogy is: People who do this stuff are claiming a role in the creative
>process.  
[snip]
>they decline
>to be passive consumers of TV entertainment.  Their imaginations are actively
>engaged in the universe, in the characters - and they have to understand
>it
>well enough that the characters in their stories are, convincingingly,
>the same
>characters that appear in the show, 
[snip]
>They know Gene Roddenberry didn't mean for Kirk and Spock to get it on,
>but it
>suits their purposes to do it and their job is to make it plausible and
>sexy.

Yeah, just as long as they don't get them started doing Vulcan Country 
Dancing!

live long and perspire

Nilos
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:59:35 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 00:59:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020301085926.44720.qmail-AT-
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--- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> 3. Turning single there risks physically running in to the
> person progressing in the other direction

That depends very much on how one dances. If you are dancing
with an awareness of where you are going and what is between you
and that place, you won't run into people, unless they go the
wrong direction. One thing that I have become very aware of
recently is that many people don't think ahead to the next
figure and dance _through_ a position. They dance to it, pause
and regroup teir thoughts, then move into the next figure. I
have noticed this to be true regardless of the experience level
of the dancers. I even see it in performing groups (including
mine) when people have rehearsed a dance many times and are very
familiar with it.

> 4. Beginners can't tell an ornament from the real thing and
> get misled, as is rampant in contra dancing

So, none of us should ever do anything that might be the least
bit ornamental for fear of misleading a beginner? In Contras, I
will rarely turn the lady under my arm on a ladies chain unless
I know her well and know her ability, and yet I constantly have
my arm wrenched out of the socket by people I never saw before,
because other guys have been turning them and, mistakenly,
they've come to expect that everyone does that turn. So who's
misleading whom? To quote Genny Shimer, "I resist!" 

> 5. Beginners and perennial low intermediates get driven away
> from the dancing by being bumped in to, or otherwise confused
> by the ornamenting dancers

Not to mention those of us who dance predictably and have
competence and experience, and who get kicked or tripped by
people who are out of place or unexpectedly change direction
because nobody is teaching dance etiquette, control,
conciousness of space and courtesy to those same beginners and
"perennial low intermediates", whom I prefer to call perpetual
beginners. There are some of those that I've known for 30 years,
and they never get any better. My experience is quite the
opposite, that many good experienced people (some of my favorite
partners) never come dancing any more because they are tired of
being injured, particularly by the clueless perpetual beginners.

> 7. the TS spoils the symmetry of the progression, and symmetry
> was a big preoccupation for Pat

The only symmetry during the progression is what occurs between
the corners, as there is no interaction between the first and
second corners in the progression unless someone goes the wrong
way, causing an choreographed violent interaction.

Whether or not I do I do the TS, as a first corner, I move in
and down around the second corner to my right who is (or should
be) backing straight out. If I'm a second corner, I move up and
inward around the first corner who should be in front of me as
they start their move forward toward their new corner.

Andy in PDX OR

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:18:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:18:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
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> --- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> > 4. Beginners can't tell an ornament from the real thing and
> > get misled, as is rampant in contra dancing

Like that d**ned clapping on Petronella turns...

I probably shouldn't have started _that_ one again...

I seem to remember a version of Petronella that started with the
turn and ended with the balance in a circle. It was started with
the ones turning single into the center to form a diamond, man
facing up and woman facing down. As the ones start down the
center in the B-1 music, the twos get out of the center by
quickly turning to original place. Most of the new dances that
have "Petronella turns" seem to start with the balancing in a
circle and then turning single into the next position, and
everyone is on the sides of the set rather than being in a
diamond.

Andy in PDX OR

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:28:02 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:27:29 -0500
From: Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFCFF85170.C225CF87-ON85256B6F.0059EACC-AT-
biogen.com>
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To build on the comments by Andy on JTC, here are some of my thoughts:

> 3. Turning single there risks physically running in to the
> person progressing in the other direction

Besides his well thought out points, I have encouraged dancers in crowded 
corners to TS at this point precisely so that they do NOT collide with the 
2nd corners (or as often happens, precede them by crossing behind rather 
than in front of the retreating 2nd corners). 

> 4. Beginners can't tell an ornament from the real thing and
> get misled, as is rampant in contra dancing

Any dancer worth their salt can distinguish the newcomers and adjust their 
style for least confusion when they are dancing together. As a caller, I 
often preface a dance by saying that I have modified the figures to suit 
my taste and that one cannot count on the same interpretation at other's 
dances. However, this is more meaningful to the experienced dancers and it 
suffices for the newcomers to accept that what I have taught them is a 
"variant."

> 5. Beginners and perennial low intermediates get driven away
> from the dancing by being bumped in to, or otherwise confused
> by the ornamenting dancers

Or they may be drawn to the fun, excitement and creativity obviously being 
experienced by the veterans on the dance floor. I have seen more beginners 
turned away because they thought doing the dances correctly was more 
important than having fun doing them, that the other dancers were 
"stuffy," and the most common observation from a newcomer leaving the 
dance - "you need to take lessons before you can join in."

> 7. the TS spoils the symmetry of the progression, and symmetry
> was a big preoccupation for Pat

The figure is as symmetrical either way. I still say the choice depends on 
the space available. It is not good dancing to tread in place for half of 
the 8 steps of approach allotted to the progression and beginning of the 
next time through. Experienced dancers will and do discover ways to absorb 
the extra music in cramped quarters without interrupting the flow. For the 
newer dancers, some direction toward a "standard embellishment" is part of 
their training in developing skills toward appropriate improvisation. 


Cammy Kaynor
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:44:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:43:16 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Dance Angels": Who Awards the Halos? and:  Excessive Embellishments..
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I really like the idea of "dance angels" - but how are they to be
determined? Often, especially at "contemporary" contra dances (as well as
some local ECDs), I've seen dancers with only a couple of months of
experience, or"perpetual beginners"  assume that they are experts. While
their willingness to help even more rank beginners is commendable, the
results often leave much to be desired, and badly learned practices spread.
It would be far preferable to channel such willingness and enthusiasm into
helping at the door, making and distributing flyers, providing refreshments,
etc. - but the crunch comes in one-to-one intereaction on the dance floor,
and thus is out of the control of the dance leaders.

So are "dance angels" self-appointed, or are they pre-selected by dance
leaders? Which dance leaders? Callers for weekend dances are frequently
imported, and don't know the composition of local dance communities. And
weekend dances often have a very different group of dancers than do the
(typically) week-night sessions, which in my area, are more devoted to
learning and practice...whereas many of the offending weekenders show up
once every month or so, and show little interest in weeknight events
(they've been repeatedly invited, and it's free the first time; VERY
reasonable after that. And when they do show up, they are made welcome).

 I quite agree with Andy's points about unnecessary and annoying
"embellishments"- it seems that newcomers pick up on the ruffles and
flourishes well before they acquire the basics, probably because the
"extras" are showy and eye-catching. With a tricky left shoulder, I avoid
dance venues where I know I'll be unwillingly twirled and turned under by
those whose enthusiasm exceeds their expertise. Yes, Genny also told me to
"Resist!", but sometimes it's not possible, when a dancer is physically
stronger and insistent (and completely in his own world, and showing no
regard for his partner or others on the dance floor). Obviously, I always
tell my partners that I have a problem with the left shoulder, and they are
usually considerate about it. But what about others in the set? How does a
dancer with a slight limitation notify them without seeming to be accusatory
or portraying herself as a frail flower? And it's the badly done ruffles and
flourishes that cause the problems...

I've even had a corner try to turn me under (by the left arm) when I was
wearing a sling. Not just a scarf wrapped around my arm - a real sling.  I
found myself blurting out, "I can't do that!" on this occasion, but there
has to be a better way. Such obliviousness  isn't confined to newcomers, of
course...and is a related but separate issue.

 Lately I seem to be more frustrated than happy with the state of local
weekend predominately contra dances, so my attendance has dropped way off
(and don't get me started with the gender balance issue re. local big contra
workshop and dance weekends). I still am active within the local ECD
community, where dance doltishness is less predominate, probably because
there are more workshops and weeknight instruction available, but I'd like
to enjoy local contra dances again, too. I'm more than willing to help
interested newcomers learn, and always try to tactfully ask them to dance,
or help with learning a buzz-step swing, or progression, or crossing over,
or rights and lefts, contra corners, or any of the other figures which are
typical pitfalls for newcomers. And I remember well when I was the newcomer,
and how much I appreciated help from experienced friends, and how
self-conscious I felt about my clumsiness and inevitable mistakes and
confusion. So despite my criticism, I feel a great deal of compassion for
those who sincerely want to learn. It's those who don't - and won't - learn
that frustrate me.

Solving this one is beyond me, however..although tactful words from
experienced dancers and callers; generally addressed to those who
unknowingly err may be of some use to those who are willing to listen and
learn. Other suggestions?

Susan Booker,
in Lexington, KY

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:46:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:46:14 +0000
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugs.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: How do you spell chassay?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C7FB055.B645BA55-AT-
ugs.com>
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References: <199902010310.TAA07396-AT-
m9.sprynet.com>

Someone asked me to proof-read a book of dances he is about
to print, and I was worried about the spelling of the word chassay.

My dictionary only allows me c h a s s e-acute (I'm not risking
non-USASCII characters!), as does Webster

The CDMs use chassay.  Sets in Order use sashay (but then we
all know that they can't even spell do si do so who's going to take
them as an authority over English dances?).

Does anyone have a convincing and authoritative spelling?

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:56:07 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 10:54:27 -0600
From: "M.G. Mudrey, Jr." <mgmudrey-AT-
facstaff.wisc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Dance Angels": Who Awards the Halos? and:  Excessive Embellishments..
To: ECD-AT-
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At 11:43 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
Susan Booker,in Lexington, KY
I agree, I agree I agree!!!

1. In a walk through I always use school figures with no 
embellishments,...in contra I do one turn of a swing and wait....I tell my 
partner that this is a walk through, not a dance, save your energy.

2. In contra...until I know my partner or opposite, I use school 
figures....embellishments work only when BOTH parties are comfortable.

3. I wear a brace, bandage, etc. or tell my partner/opposite that NO! if I 
have an injury.  It usually works.  I try to respect the physical 
limitation of my dancer partners if known....

It is the caller's/teacher's responsiblity to emphasize to the dancer 
polite behavior.  Many dancers have never been told or LECTURED to about 
what is proper dance behavior.  Thank your partner, thank the band, escort 
your partner to the side, in ballroom waltz in the dance-line-of-direction, 
not retrograde!....

mm (crabby sometimes for what it is worth).



Please send me an email if you wish to be moved from this mail notification 
list
         "Mike - remove me from MECD"<mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>

Madison Wisconsin English Country Dancing

The Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dance Society meets
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM.

Dancing
         October through May at the Wilmar Center,
                 953 Jenifer St., Madison, Wisconsin
         June through September in front of Memorial Library,
                 University of Wisconsin-Madison,
For more information, contact
         Mike (mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),
         Jean (608-231-1040) or
         Don (608-238-9951)
Website
images
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm
no images
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm

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<html>
<font size=3>At 11:43 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:<br>
Susan Booker,in Lexington, KY<br>
I agree, I agree I agree!!!<br><br>
1. In a walk through I always use school figures with no
embellishments,...in contra I do one turn of a swing and wait....I tell
my partner that this is a walk through, not a dance, save your
energy.<br><br>
2. In contra...until I know my partner or opposite, I use school
figures....embellishments work only when BOTH parties are
comfortable.<br><br>
3. I wear a brace, bandage, etc. or tell my partner/opposite that NO! if
I have an injury.&nbsp; It usually works.&nbsp; I try to respect the
physical limitation of my dancer partners if known....<br><br>
It is the caller's/teacher's responsiblity to emphasize to the dancer
polite behavior.&nbsp; Many dancers have never been told or LECTURED to
about what is proper dance behavior.&nbsp; Thank your partner, thank the
band, escort your partner to the side, in ballroom waltz in the
dance-line-of-direction, not retrograde!....<br><br>
mm (crabby sometimes for what it is worth).<br><br>
<br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<i>Please send me an email if you wish to be moved from this mail
notification list<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>&quot;Mike
- remove me from MECD&quot;&lt;mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net&gt;<br><br>
</i><b>Madison Wisconsin English Country Dancing<br><br>
</b><i>The Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dance Society meets<br>
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM. <br>
&nbsp;<br>
Dancing <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>October
through May at the Wilmar Center, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>953
Jenifer St., Madison, Wisconsin<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>June
through September in front of Memorial Library, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>University
of Wisconsin-Madison,<br>
For more information, contact<br>
</i><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><i>Mike
(mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Jean
(608-231-1040) or <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Don
(608-238-9951)<br>
</i>Website <br>
images<br>
<b><a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm</a><br>
</b>no images<br>
<b><a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm</a><br>
</font></b></html>

--Boundary_(ID_CRjn2xkb5evgr9xmkpAiVg)--
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:53:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:56:49 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Dargason & Holst
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEEEHFDCAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
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Allison,

Solving this problem is quite easy, it's done *all* of the time. Simply
dance 5 or more or less steps for each 4 beats of the music <grin>.

We, the Merrie Pryanksters, danced Dargason with 10 couples on a street in
Berkeley (California) *once*. We placed the band at the middle of the set
and had spotters at the ends to tell everybody when to turn around and start
back.


Norman Bradley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU On Behalf Of Allison M
> Thompson
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 5:04 AM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: Dargason & Holst
>
>
> For what it's worth, I counted the reps on the HOlst version once while
> driving (almost as bad as talking on a cell phone) and got up to
> something wierd like 29 or 31. I'm not sure how this could be divisible
> into the dance...
>
> Allison
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:07:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:18:23 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: No twirling please.
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002301c1c155$f48ac2c0$5eb6883e-AT-
annhigle>
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oemcomputer>

Susan Booker wrote -
    How does a
> dancer with a slight limitation notify them without seeming to be
accusatory
> or portraying herself as a frail flower?


Well I know of a lady who has a problem with giddyness, so to prevent other
dancers twirling her, she had a nice bright badge made which read something
like 'no twirling please' which she always wore to dances. I think she found
this worked quite well. I'm not sure it would stop the person who didn't
notice you were wearing a sling though.....

Best wishes
Ann

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:37:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:37:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020301193746.2216.qmail-AT-
web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com wrote:
> To build on the comments by Andy on JTC, here are some of
> my thoughts:
> 
[I think this was originally Emily Ferguson, not Andy]:
> > 3. Turning single there risks physically running in to
> > the person progressing in the other direction
> 
> Besides his well thought out points, I have encouraged
> dancers in crowded corners to TS at this point precisely
> so that they do NOT collide with the 2nd corners (or as
> often happens, precede them by crossing behind rather 
> than in front of the retreating 2nd corners). 

There has not been any mention one way or the other that I
an remember whether the TS is moving forward or stationary.
Which?

Lyrl




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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:54:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:53:38 -0500
From: Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
biogen.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF092E09BE.C372A4BD-ON85256B6F.006C3464-AT-
biogen.com>
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Lyrl,
Correct - I was copying Emily's words and responding to Andy's comments 
with some of my own. I teach the TS as what I think you are calling 
stationary. As corners #2 are backing straight out from the set, the 1st 
corners turn over the right shoulder passing through the starting position 
and perhaps a step beyond, into a luxurious forward and back with their 
new corners. Since the same problem of cramped quarters applies to the 2nd 
corners, they do the same but 4 counts later. 

(Of course if one is dancing in a normal size room with only one set of 
dancers, the problems of cramped space are not an issue and I teach it as 
PS wrote it.  All this turning applies only when you lack space to take 
four liberal steps back (without ending in the neighboring set) and when 
the sets are tight in the lengthwise dimension as well.  The deciding 
factor is whether dancers have room to take eight steps in the diagonal 
direction and still be face-to-face with the new corner.
Cammy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:25:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:11:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: How do you spell chassay?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Hugh wrote:

> Someone asked me to proof-read a book of dances he is about
> to print, and I was worried about the spelling of the word chassay.

> My dictionary only allows me c h a s s e-acute (I'm not risking
> non-USASCII characters!), as does Webster

> The CDMs use chassay.  Sets in Order use sashay (but then we
> all know that they can't even spell do si do so who's going to take
> them as an authority over English dances?).

> Does anyone have a convincing and authoritative spelling?

No, but I'll indulge myself in an opinion, anyway.

I am not convinced that "chasse" or "chassay" is a helpful or necessary 
piece of vocabulary except where it has no synonym.  (Where it's used to 
mean "step - and - close" in waltz time, as in "Margaret's Waltz", it's
worthwhile.)  Otherwise, it appears to mean "skip-change" or "slip" or
"gallop".

If these aren't American dances, forget sashay.

If I were copy-editing - not just proofreading - I'd suggest to the author
that the problematic word be replaced with "skip-change" if that's what's
meant, "slip" if that's what's meant, and rendered as c h a s s e-acute 
(just my personal preference) if that's what's meant.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:59:08 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:58:48 -0500
From: Diane Schmit <dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Dance Angels": Who Awards the Halos? and:  Excessive Embellishments..
To: ECD-AT-
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At 11:43 AM 3/1/02 , you wrote:

 Obviously, I always
>tell my partners that I have a problem with the left shoulder, and they are
>usually considerate about it. But what about others in the set? How does a
>dancer with a slight limitation notify them without seeming to be accusatory
>or portraying herself as a frail flower? And it's the badly done ruffles and
>flourishes that cause the problems...
>


I remember a dancer at Pinewoods many years ago wearing an attractively
made little sign (colorful, scalloped edges) pinned near her shoulder
requesting 
dancers to be considerate of her arm/shoulder. It served as a little
reminder every 
time you met her in a dance, and it seemed to work well for her. I don't
remember 
the nice wording she used, but I do remember it being creative and
pleasantly worded.
And, she didn't have to keep verbalizing it to her partners.

Diane

Diane Schmit
dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:00:07 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:59:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *John Tallis's Canon*
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> There has not been any mention one way or the other that I
> an remember whether the TS is moving forward or stationary.
> Which?

I move forward in a loop, slightly into the set and then to the
right around the person next to me who is backing out (not
meaning that I go all the way around them, just curving so that
I avoid them), ending up facing on the diagonal in progressed
place and ready to go forward to my new corner.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:15:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 22:15:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Dance Angels": Who Awards the Halos? and:  Excessive Embellishments..
To: ECD-AT-
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--- SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net> wrote:
> I really like the idea of "dance angels" - but how are they to
> be determined? Often, especially at "contemporary" contra
> dances (as well as some local ECDs), I've seen dancers with
> only a couple of months of experience, or"perpetual beginners"
>  assume that they are experts. While their willingness to help
> even more rank beginners is commendable, the results often
> leave much to be desired, and badly learned practices spread.

There are times when I see this and I want to go over and rescue
the person being "helped", but I'm not sure how to do it
politely. It's been especially noticable to me recently where
two particular people at Scandinavian are concerned. He's not
nearly as good a dancer as he thinks he is, and I don't want him
teaching this particular woman bad habits because after only a
few months of dancing she is already better at the dances she
knows than he is.

> ...And weekend dances often have a very different group of
> dancers than do the (typically) week-night sessions, which in
> my area, are more devoted to learning and practice...whereas
> many of the offending weekenders show up once every month or
> so, and show little interest in weeknight events

There are people who _never_ come to the teaching period to
learn new dances, then try to learn turning dances by imitation
as though they were doing Balkan line dances. I always feel
sorry for their partners who are being dragged around the room
and don't look like theya re enjoying themselves in the least.

>  I quite agree with Andy's points about unnecessary and
> annoying "embellishments"- it seems that newcomers pick up on
> the ruffles and flourishes well before they acquire the
basics,
> probably because the "extras" are showy and eye-catching.

I have to admit to putting in my own favorite flourishes
sometimes, but I also am very aware of my space and don't dance
with my feet flying out into other people's space. There are
people who are badly out of control even when they _aren't_
doing anything fancy. Those are the ones who are most dangerous.

When waltzing, I'm one of the most predictable people on the
floor and if someone is looking it's easy to know where I'm
going, but the other night some guy backed his partner straight
out toward the wall and between my feet and she tripped me. I
didn't quite hit the floor, but hurt myself trying to stay
upright and not drag my partner down with me. Being rather
petite, she told me that she'd just learned that she can't keep
me from falling. 

> With a tricky left shoulder, I avoid dance venues where I know
> I'll be unwillingly twirled and turned under by those whose
> enthusiasm exceeds their expertise.

One of my friends has a fairly severe case of scholiosis and
she's had to stop dancing because every time she does someone
jerks her around and throws her back out. Whereas "normal"
people have some flexibility the length of their back, her upper
back is fairly rigid and the lower back has to absorb all of the
twisting.

> Yes, Genny also told me to "Resist!", but sometimes it's not
> possible, when a dancer is physically stronger and insistent
> (and completely in his own world, and showing no regard for
his
> partner or others on the dance floor).

I fault the callers'teachers for not teaching people to respect
those around them and avoid injuring them.

> Obviously, I always tell my partners that I have a problem
with
> the left shoulder, and they are usually considerate about it.
> But what about others in the set? How does a dancer with a
> slight limitation notify them without seeming to be accusatory
> or portraying herself as a frail flower? And it's the badly
> done ruffles and flourishes that cause the problems...

If they were taught proper etiquette, they wouldn't even have to
be told. I remember a week at Brasstown some years ago at which
Brad Foster requested at the beginning of the first day's Contra
class that he would like to see good solid basic dancing and not
a lot of fancy flourishes. I don't think that anyone there could
say that they didn't have a good time that week because of his
request. Good solid basic dancing is a lot of fun.

> I've even had a corner try to turn me under (by the left arm)
> when I was wearing a sling. ...Such obliviousness isn't
> confined to newcomers, of course...and is a related but
> separate issue.

The newcomers are often less likely to do harm than the
oblivious oaf who thinks he knows it all.

As my friend Marty and I have concluded long ago, there are
three kinds of dancers. There are the beginners who are forgiven
their sins because they're new to this and haven't had time to
learn differently. There are the good dancers who really _do_
know what they are doing and pay attention to what's going on
around them. And there are the perpetual beginners, for whom
there is no excuse.

Andy in PDX OR

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:25:15 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Arrangements for 2-couple dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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michael>
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Andrew Peterson wrote "Reel Nutmeg had a dance that we did as comic
relief that was called "Pickadilla" or "The New Bo-peep", which is in
one of Sharp's country dance books. It is a longways for as many as
will, non-progressive. I can't recall now if you only interacted with
your partner or if it was a duple minor.

New Bo-Peep was published in the 1st edn (1651) of the Dancing Master
and was include in all editions of the first volume.  Although described
as longways for as many as will, which normally implies a progression,
there is no progression.  Each dancer only interacts with their partner
with the chorus figure being the same for each of the three standard
figures excepting that the chorus is started alternately by the men
first time  and women second time etc.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 08:09:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:04:48 -0500
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Across the Atlantic 2002, Amherst, MA, USA
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <B8A65382.1E6D%joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com>
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Dear ECD List Friends,

This is an "early alert" for any interested people to mark your calendars
for another world-class dancing weekend in beautiful Amherst, Massachusetts,
to be held Sept 21-22, 2002.

More details will come later, but the basics are in place.  Once again we
will have as our leaders the internationally renowned (& locally
beloved/admired) Philippe Callens of Belgium and Brad Foster of the United
States.  

Music will be provided by New Englanders (transplanted if not native) Karen
Axelrod, Doug Creighton, Joyce Crouch, Mary Lea, and Chris Rua.  We will
dance in two great dance halls with superb wood floors, Munson Library in
Amherst and the spacious Guiding Star Grange in nearby Greenfield.

Special notice:  Previous attendees will be pleased to learn that this time
around we definitely do *not* plan to include the mosquitoes &/or the
90-degree temperatures that accompanied the fun of the June 2001 Across the
Atlantic weekend!  :)

Instead, we are confidently predicting cool-ish temperatures, no bugs, and
beautiful fall foliage typical of late September in western Massachusetts.

Hope many of you can join us for Across the Atlantic 2002!

Joyce Crouch

-----------------------------------------------------------------
NEW PERMANENT EMAIL ADDRESS ******  joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com  *****
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Joyce B Crouch                Telephone: 413-549-4123
95 Pulpit Hill Road                 Fax: 413-549-7096
Amherst MA 01002                  email: joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:01:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:55:48 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Contrasts.   Subtitle:The two Mr. Carters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020303.135555.-4078307.12.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
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I did get hold of that great Sydney Carter poem, "Man 
with a Microphone", and what a contrast with the story in
today's NY Times re the strenuous efforts to locate and
reward that other Mr Carter (James) connected to that
surprising and delightful Grammy sweep for the "O Brother"
soundtrack album.  The Times described the music business
as   .....an industry rampant with tales of swindled royalties, 
corruption and stolen song credits.....  Thankfully, that's
not always the case.   Anyone wanting copies of both, let 
me know OFF LIST, at    solweber-AT-
juno.com




+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:44:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:47:08 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Let Beginners Choose a Dance Angel
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020303.163243.-827199.2.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 15:06:29 -0500 (EST) DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com writes:
> Don Bell wrote:
> 
>  >"Dance angels" (I'm not sure who first coined the phrase)
> 
> My guess is Gene Murrow.
> 
> Gene?

Well, for the historical record (which no doubt will be Alan's archive of
this list-- if only John Playford had hosted a listserve!)...

I might be able to take the responsibility/blame for first use of the
term "dance angels" in an official printed ECD-related document.  It was
when I was Director of Early Music Week at Pinewoods in the early 90's
and I wanted to encourage some experienced dancers to join the daily
class for beginners.  I wrote letters to several folks who I thought
would be suitable (addressing another recent thread about who chooses),
inviting them to volunteer.  We then scheduled each angel for no more
than a couple of classes during the week so they could also dance with
their experienced peers.  I had floated the concept with a couple of EMW
regulars-- Gina Jenkins and Tom Anastasio of College Park, MD, and the
term grew out of our discussions.  Perhaps they invented it, or had heard
it before, or I invented it, or we invented it as a group, or it came to
us from above via a dove alighting on my shoulder, or...

Gene

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Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:55:06 PST
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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:59:25 -0500
From: Ridge Kennedy <srkennedy-AT-
msn.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Let Beginners Choose a Dance Angel
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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"Dance Angel" is a helpful term that has been around in Modern Western
Square Dancing for decades.  In that context, refers to the experienced
dancers who attend MWSD lessons in order to fill out squares and demonstrate
for the teachers.

R.

Ridge Kennedy
Washington, NJ  [No Exit]
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:27:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:26:34 -0800
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-
opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Canon-ades (sic!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C831394.E71A421C-AT-
opendoor.com>
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References: <OF056E35A6.A8D66532-ON85256B6B.006E5DD6-AT-
infinity.com>

Been there - ouch

Also was at a dance once when the musicians spontaneously decided about 3
times through the dance to start playing it as a round - it resulted in chaos.

Brooke Friendly in Ashland OR

Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:

>  I am rather scrupulous in saying when teaching "Christchurch Bells,"
> (tho' I like to talk about the tune) DON'T sing along, it'll just end in
> tears.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:31:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:31:39 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Excessive Embellishments...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020304063139.EYQB5791.chruser-AT-
[66.222.32.73]>
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Susan Booker wrote:  

>    ...   With a tricky left shoulder, I avoid
>dance venues where I know I'll be unwillingly twirled and turned under by
>those whose enthusiasm exceeds their expertise. Yes, Genny also told me to
>"Resist!", but sometimes it's not possible, when a dancer is physically
>stronger and insistent (and completely in his own world, and showing no
>regard for his partner or others on the dance floor). Obviously, I always
>tell my partners that I have a problem with the left shoulder, and they are
>usually considerate about it. But what about others in the set? How does a
>dancer with a slight limitation notify them without seeming to be accusatory
>or portraying herself as a frail flower? And it's the badly done ruffles and
>flourishes that cause the problems...

     <stuff deleted>

>Solving this one is beyond me, however..although tactful words from
>experienced dancers and callers; generally addressed to those who
>unknowingly err may be of some use to those who are willing to listen and
>learn. Other suggestions?

I agree... there's a lot that experienced dancers and callers can say 
and do to show this sort of leadership.  Unfortunately, it happens too 
rarely.  Many of the aforementioned ruffles and flourishes are supplied 
by the "experienced" dancers.  And, more and more, callers are teaching 
less and less -- often because "experienced" dancers, who don't think 
they need the teaching, give the callers a hard time when they teach.  

I'd like to encourage callers to resist the temptation to comply with 
the wishes of those who think teaching isn't necessary.  This is not to 
say that such teaching can be inefficient or humorless.  Dance leaders 
oughta be prepared to teach, then do it.  Teaching and encouraging use 
of the basics and good etiquette will go a long way.  And an important 
piece of that etiquette is the seeking of agreement between dancers 
about flourishes before they erupt.  

There's also room for the organizers of the dance to take responsibility 
for the atmosphere on the dance floor.  Callers who are not local don't 
know the personalities or chronic problems of a group they are visiting.  
The organizers can apprise the callers and enlist their help.  
Interestingly, dancers are often more willing to listen to teaching from 
an out-of-town caller than from their local callers.  

Organizers also need to be willing to make some ruffles of their own 
when necessary... that is, to show a willingness to take a problem 
dancer aside and ask (or tell, if necessary) that local expectations of 
etiquette be respected.  It's my experience that this happens only 
rarely.  

It's also legitimate for a dancer who feels they've been abused to talk 
personally to the dancer who executed the rough maneuver.  Many dancers, 
of course, don't feel comfortable in that role.  I believe it's 
ultimately up to the organizers when complaints arise.  None of this 
talk needs to be unkind.  It's possible to be direct about such matters 
without chewing someone's head off.

Andrew Peterson wrote:  

>   ...   I fault the callers'teachers for not teaching 
> people to respect those around them and avoid injuring 
> them.

As above, I agree.

>   ...   And there are the perpetual beginners, for whom
> there is no excuse.

I generally disagree.  A lot of "perpetual beginners" are, frankly, 
learning disabled with regard to dance.  Many are doing the best they 
can -- unfortunately, not very well.  I see contra dancing as 
democratic dancing, and I'd like to see it stay that way.  Fortunately 
and unfortunately, that means accepting some individuals who have poor 
natural ability.  On the other hand, there are those who simply don't 
choose to learn or concentrate on participating as a member of the 
group of dancers.  Those folks are candidates for a conversation about 
the importance of respecting the dancers around them, just as are 
those who endanger others.

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 03:55:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:01:39 -0500
From: Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Dance Angels": Let Beginners Award the Halos
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 10:15 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>--- SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net> wrote:
> > I really like the idea of "dance angels" - but how are they to
> > be determined? Often, especially at "contemporary" contra
> > dances (as well as some local ECDs), I've seen dancers with
> > only a couple of months of experience, or"perpetual beginners"
> >  assume that they are experts. While their willingness to help
> > even more rank beginners is commendable, the results often
> > leave much to be desired, and badly learned practices spread.

Helping beginners avoid dance angel imposters is definitely a problem.

The only almost fail-safe solution is micro-managing the encounter, i.e. 
pre-selecting angels before the dance and giving them their stealth 
assignment. In many situations this strategy may be difficult to implement 
(e.g. dependent on having a large enough group of dance angels you can 
count on).

If dance angel imposters select beginners, this could be a continuing 
problem. However, if beginners select dance angels, after a few tries they 
get much  better at selecting real dance angels and avoiding imposters. 
Another advantage to letting beginners choose is that it reinforces the 
habit of choosing, giving them the feeling that they have some control over 
their enjoyment of the dance evening, that they can choose to dance with 
some of the better dancers and that those dancers are usually willing to 
dance with them.

Don



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<html>
<font size=3>At 10:15 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>--- SUSAN B BOOKER
&lt;susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; I really like the idea of &quot;dance angels&quot; - but how are
they to<br>
&gt; be determined? Often, especially at &quot;contemporary&quot;
contra<br>
&gt; dances (as well as some local ECDs), I've seen dancers with<br>
&gt; only a couple of months of experience, or&quot;perpetual
beginners&quot;<br>
&gt;&nbsp; assume that they are experts. While their willingness to
help<br>
&gt; even more rank beginners is commendable, the results often<br>
&gt; leave much to be desired, and badly learned practices
spread.</blockquote><br>
Helping beginners avoid dance angel imposters is definitely a problem.
<br>
<br>
The only almost fail-safe solution is micro-managing the encounter, i.e.
pre-selecting angels before the dance and giving them their stealth
assignment. In many situations this strategy may be difficult to
implement (e.g. dependent on having a large enough group of dance angels
you can count on).<br>
<br>
If dance angel imposters select beginners, this could be a continuing
problem. However, if beginners select dance angels, after a few tries
they get much&nbsp; better at selecting real dance angels and avoiding
imposters. Another advantage to letting beginners choose is that it
reinforces the habit of choosing, giving them the feeling that they have
some control over their enjoyment of the dance evening, that they can
choose to dance with some of the better dancers and that those dancers
are usually willing to dance with them.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
Don<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></html>

--Boundary_(ID_IORXkTEdJX3OJ1uyH9HTMA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 06:58:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:38:45 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Let Beginners Choose a Dance Angel
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020304.093853.-827199.4.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:47:08 -0500 Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> writes:
> ... or it [the term "dance angels"] came to us from above via a dove
alighting on my shoulder, or...
> 
On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:59:25 -0500 Ridge Kennedy <srkennedy-AT-
msn.com>
writes:
> "Dance Angel" is a helpful term that has been around in Modern Western
Square Dancing for decades.  

I _thought_ that bird looked a little silly with the calico dress and all
the petticoats :-)

Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:12:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:15:52 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: "Dance Angels": Let Beginners Award the Halos
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3a0$3e0b5bc0$fc2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304060950.01ed5eb0-AT-
pop.nycap.rr.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com>

<<If dance angel imposters select beginners, this could be a continuing
problem. However, if beginners select dance angels, after a few tries they
get much  better at selecting real dance angels and avoiding imposters. >>

The only problem with that, in my experience, is that the beginners seldom
figure out that the person they're dancing with is inept; they think it's
their own fault. They may not last long enough to learn to select the real
angels unless the organizers keep an eagle eye out.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:14:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:14:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Excessive Embellishments...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020304191401.26488.qmail-AT-
web13801.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:

> Interestingly, dancers are often more willing to listen
> to teaching from an out-of-town caller than from their
> local callers.  

Reminds me of kids--kids may not obey Mom, but let someone
outside the family tell them the same darn thing and they
straighten right up. Are we reliving our childhoods?

Lyrl
Acton MA




__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Excessive Embellishments...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020305065412.53127.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> --- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > Interestingly, dancers are often more willing to listen
> > to teaching from an out-of-town caller than from their
> > local callers.  
> 
--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> Reminds me of kids--kids may not obey Mom, but let someone
> outside the family tell them the same darn thing and they
> straighten right up. Are we reliving our childhoods?

And here I was under the illusion that I'd never left it...

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:24:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:22:22 -0500
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: a few spaces left at the Jane Austen Ball in CT
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100309b8aabc63bed7-AT-
[65.96.140.240]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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Forwarded for a friend:

>  Dear Friends:
<snip>
>  By the way, for those of you who have not bought your tickets for March
>  9th - there are only a few left. Please note, tickets will not be
>  available at the door!!
>
>  For those of you that have forgotten about March 9th - take a peek at:
>
>  http://jasnact.tripod.com/aball.html
>
>  and then hurry up and buy a ticket. It should be a great evening.
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Marc

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:21:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:22:50 -0800
From: Lizbeth Langston <langston-AT-
citrus.ucr.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Upcoming SDHS conference, June 2002
To: Rendance <RENDANCE-AT-
MORGAN.UCS.MUN.CA>, ECD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C85291A.5DEA5A9D-AT-
citrus.ucr.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Colleagues and Friends,
  The organizers of this year's conference are particularly interested
in reaching out to people with a wide range of interests--not just
academic scholars. 
  Please excuse cross-postings.
Lizbeth Langston
(with her hat on as an SDHS Board member)
***********************************
DANCE & THE CITY:  URBAN AND URBANE
Society of Dance History Scholars 2002 International Conference

Scholarly papers, panels, plenary sessions, round tables,
lecture-demonstrations, and workshops on a broad spectrum of dance
manifestations as they intersect with the human choreography of the city

Temple University,  Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA, June 20-23, 2002

SPECIAL EVENTS

Argentine Tango Milonga
a tango dance party at the opening night reception with Kelly Ray &
Lesley Mitchell

Temple Dance Faculty Concert
choreographies and historical reconstructions by Kariamu Welsh Asante,
Philip Grosser, and Sprezzatura

Rennie Harris PureMovement
Illadelph Legends: Honoring the Source performances during and
masterclasses after the conference

Dance & the City Videotape Arcade
an exhibition of Greater Philadelphia dancers and dance companies

Locating the History of Philadelphia Dance
a virtual exhibition from the Philadelphia Dance Archive Project

The chance to make a difference in six working groups:
Dance History Teachers, Early Dance, Ethnicity and Dance,
Reconstruction, Strategies for Doctoral Education, and Students in SDHS

and MUCH, MUCH MORE

Do what you've always wanted to do:  visit the historic City of
Philadephia and savor the delights of dance history in one memorable
journey.

Mark your calendars June 20-23:  Philadelphia, USA!

See our Web site at www.sdhs.org for more information.
A brochure on the conference will be coming out in March.

Joellen Meglin
Chair, Local Planning Committee

Dr. Joellen Meglin
Associate Professor of Dance
Department of Dance
Temple University
Philadelphia, PA  19122
jmeglin-AT-
nimbus.ocis.temple.edu
(215) 204-6284
FAX (215) 204-4347
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:46:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:45:27 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Washington Post" article: "Costume Drama"
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007501c1c52e$53009880$3646fcd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I just discovered a very interesting - and relevant - online article from
the February 22 "Washington Post". It concerns historic reenactors, and
includes a number of anecdotes about and references to English country
dancing. I'm not sure how long it will remain online, so catch it while you
can.

Did those of you in the D.C. area gain any new dancers as a result of this
article?Unfortunately, it doesn't contain any direct references to area
dance groups, other than to a May 11 workshop, evidently sponsored by the
Living History Foundation.

Susan Booker
Lexington, KY

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:50:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:49:19 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: URL for "Costume Drama" article
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c1c52e$dd0f00c0$3646fcd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Oops, forgot to include this in the previous message:

http://www.wahsingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html

Susan Booker
Lexington, KY


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:53:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:51:52 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Costume Drama" one more try...
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000f01c1c52f$385df120$3646fcd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Make that:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html

Trusting I got it right this time,

Susan Booker
Lexington, KY

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 08:57:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:57:05 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: URL for "Costume Drama" article
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C864A60.FBA20AA6-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <000701c1c52e$dd0f00c0$3646fcd1-AT-
oemcomputer>

it's available for free for another day or two....14 days from
publication before it goes into archives...
need to spell "washington" correctly in Susan's URL, or go to
www.washingtonpost.com, enter "Costume Drama" in the site search box in
the upper righthand corner, then select the article.

--Deb

SUSAN B BOOKER wrote:
> 
> Oops, forgot to include this in the previous message:
> 
> http://www.wahsingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html
> 
> Susan Booker
> Lexington, KY
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:36:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:35:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: URL for "Costume Drama" article
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <16f.9e45b0f.29b7bb8b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_jn/AADcmKf4cYTUd3JhlJw)"


--Boundary_(ID_jn/AADcmKf4cYTUd3JhlJw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

In a message dated 3/6/2002 11:52:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net writes:


> http://www.wahsingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html
> 
> 

Couldn't get this to work.  Any suggestions? - d

--Boundary_(ID_jn/AADcmKf4cYTUd3JhlJw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/6/2002 11:52:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">http://www.wahsingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Couldn't get this to work.&nbsp; Any suggestions? - d</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_jn/AADcmKf4cYTUd3JhlJw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:45:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:36:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: Re: URL for 'Costume Drama' article
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <45432.148.184.176.32.1015439769.squirrel-AT-
www.weitzman.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <16f.9e45b0f.29b7bb8b-AT-
aol.com>

> In a message dated 3/6/2002 11:52:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
>susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net writes:
> 
> 
>> http://www.wahsingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45399-2002Feb21.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> Couldn't get this to work.  Any suggestions? - d

Yeah: I'll zap a copy to ya.
-- 
Roger W. Broseus

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:46:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:44:16 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Michael Barraclough Interpretations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001c1c5f7$52dd18a0$ecad7ad5-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Added this week at http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk/michael/notations.html
===============

New Bo Peep/Piccadilly – The Dancing Master 1st Edn
Nonesuch – The Dancing Master 1st Edn

New Bo Peep is a longways for as many as will which can be done by as
few as one couples!
The interpretation of Nonesuch differs significantly from that published
by Cecil Sharp.

Next dances for uploading:
=========================

Black/Galloping Nag
Cold and Raw
Jamaica

Please feel free to use my interpretations but note that the material is
copyright and cannot be reproduced elsewhere without permission.  There
is no charge for use, but I would appreciate an email to let me know how
it went and what people thought of it (good or bad comments equally
welcome).  Please email me off list if you need any clarification or if
you have any requests for specific dance interpretations.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk/

Previous additions:
==================

The Bishop - Thompson, Twenty Four Country Dances for the year 1778
Cuckolds All A Row - The [English] Dancing Master 1st edn, 1651 
Excuse Me - William Woolball's notebook, 1719
Lilliburlero - The Dancing Master 8th Edn, 1690



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:34:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:40:20 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: sources
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307163901.00a24240-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>Hi Sharon.

I asked Mary if it was OK to send you Halsway Manners and she said she 
already faxed you a copy.  Did you get it?  If not, I 'll send you one.


Victoria Bestock


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:53:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:53:35 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE:  CDNY's Farewell for Sharon, David & Michael -- May 19th
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <116.d7323c8.29b98fc0-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Dear ECD Friends:

We at CDNY are still in denial -- but we must come to grips with the fact that Sharon, David and Michael are really and truly leaving NYC and returning to the Bay Area from whence they came lo these many years.

So there's nothing else to do but throw a party and send them off in fine style.  Please join us for CDNY's

Farewell Blowout Hoohah for Sharon, David and Michael

Sunday, May 19th from 3 to 8 p.m.
Congregation Beth Elohim, Park Slope, Brooklyn

There will be

A Cavalcade of Callers
A Mass of Musicians
A Potluck Feast

The Dearly Departing (Sharon, David & Michael)

And YOU!

If you would like to join the callers, please contact Beverly Francis directly at bhfrancis-AT-
aol.com

If you would like to join the musicians, please contact Cynthia Simonoff directly at cynthiashaw-AT-
mindspring.com.

For your food offerings -- appetizer, salad, main dish, dessert -- and any other questions, please contact me directly at sfordnyc-AT-
aol.com.

Please do NOT contact Sharon directly for details about this event.  Believe it or not, she is not organizing it in any way shape or form -- she's the guest!  And she has quite enough to do with renovating their house.

A REMINDER:  To contact directly, paste the desired email address into a new message -- do not Reply to this one.

We look forward to seeing you!

Suzanne Ford
CDNY
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 20:04:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 23:03:48 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE:  Come to NYC for the Weekend  --  May 18 & 19
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <94.229b5a19.29b99224-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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If you're considering coming in for the Farwell Blowout Hoohah -- make a weekend of it!

Country Dancers of Westchester is having a special dance on Saturday May 18th featuring Philippe Callens. 

It's at their usual location -- the Church of Highlands in White Plains -- 40 minutes or so north of Manhattan.

I don't have all the details at my finger tips (literally), but I'm sure someone from CDW will add to this notice.

Hope to see you!

Suzanne






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:25:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:23:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE:  Come to NYC for the Weekend  --  May 18 & 19
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118570.463-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> Country Dancers of Westchester is having a special dance on Saturday
> May 18th featuring Philippe Callens.
> 
> It's at their usual location -- the Church of Highlands in White
> Plains -- 40 minutes or so north of Manhattan.
> 
> I don't have all the details at my finger tips (literally), but I'm
> sure someone from CDW will add to this notice.

i can add a shameless advertisement of who the musicians will be:
ellen tepper, robin russell, norma castle, and susie lorand.

cheers,

susie lorand
princeton, nj, usa

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:15:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:15:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Clwread-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  CDNY's Farewell for Sharon, David & Michael -- May 19th
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <57.7c3e06f.29ba75e6-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT




<< Dear ECD Friends:


We at CDNY are still in denial -- but we must come to grips with the fact 
that Sharon, David and Michael are really and truly leaving NYC and returning 
to the Bay Area from whence they came lo these many years.


So there's nothing else to do but throw a party and send them off in fine 
style.  Please join us for CDNY's


Farewell Blowout Hoohah for Sharon, David and Michael


Sunday, May 19th from 3 to 8 p.m.

Congregation Beth Elohim, Park Slope, Brooklyn


There will be


A Cavalcade of Callers

A Mass of Musicians

A Potluck Feast


The Dearly Departing (Sharon, David & Michael)


And YOU!


If you would like to join the callers, please contact Beverly Francis 
directly at bhfrancis-AT-
aol.com


If you would like to join the musicians, please contact Cynthia Simonoff 
directly at cynthiashaw-AT-
mindspring.com.


For your food offerings -- appetizer, salad, main dish, dessert -- and any 
other questions, please contact me directly at sfordnyc-AT-
aol.com.


Please do NOT contact Sharon directly for details about this event.  Believe 
it or not, she is not organizing it in any way shape or form -- she's the 
guest!  And she has quite enough to do with renovating their house.


A REMINDER:  To contact directly, paste the desired email address into a new 
message -- do not Reply to this one.


We look forward to seeing you!


Suzanne Ford

CDNY



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Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:53:35 -0500 (EST)
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 <ECD-AT-
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 >>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:03:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:03:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall
festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know).  
We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are
Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.

Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just
English.

Thanks.
Barbara

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:16:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:15:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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In a message dated 3/8/2002 6:05:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:


> Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.
> 
> Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
> This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just
> English

The celebration of the 10th anniversary of the Pleasures of the Town/Amherst 
ECD is the 18th of October, so will probably involve and draw many.

Deborah

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 3/8/2002 6:05:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.&nbsp; The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.<BR>
<BR>
Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? <BR>
This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just<BR>
English</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
The celebration of the 10th anniversary of the Pleasures of the Town/Amherst ECD is the 18th of October, so will probably involve and draw many.<BR>
<BR>
Deborah</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_Y3Zbfin3EBn0p8ZnaBAacw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:37:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:35:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KF4HYIZ18E9FSTHF-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dfhart quoted:

> barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:


> > Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.
> >
> > Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts?
> > This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just
> > English

and wrote

> The celebration of the 10th anniversary of the Pleasures of the Town/Amherst
> ECD is the 18th of October, so will probably involve and draw many.

The BACDS Fall Dance Weekend will be the 18-20th.  Luckily for us, it's already
fully-staffed, so Nomad probably won't screw _us_ up.  (Yes, it's 3000 miles
away.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:19:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0500 (EST)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <144.ac48104.29baf559-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 3/8/02 11:05:19 PM, barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:

<< People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall
festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know).  
We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are
Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.

Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just
English.

Thanks.
Barbara >>

The Baltimore Playford Ball will be Saturday, October 19, featuring music by 
The Flying Romanos. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:38:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:28:42 -0500
From: Ruth Feldberg <madrobin-AT-
javanet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English Country Dance for Advanced Dancers - March 17, 2002
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C89F1E8.BCF4F380-AT-
javanet.com>
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References: <20020227231253.94936.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>

ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FOR ADVANCED DANCERS

Please join us Sunday, March 17, 2002 for a wonderful afternoon of
dancing with experienced dancers. Complete familiarity with dance
figures necessary. This event will take place at the Munson library in
South Amherst, MA. Time is  2:00-5:00 PM. Admission $10 (includes refreshments)

Calling by Brad Foster and musicians will be Earl Gaddis, Beth Murray
and Chris Rua.


For information, call Ruth at 413-253-3828


*     *      *     *      *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *   
 *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *     *    
*     *     *     *      *     *


Special bonus! Get another chance to enjoy Brad's calling by coming a
day early to the Pleasures of the Town English Country Dance on
Saturday, March 16, 8:00-11:00 PM at Munson. Musicians are Joyce Crouch,
Doug Creigton and Chris Rua. Admission $7.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:59:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:57:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203091057100.6227-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
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On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Barbara Ruth wrote:

> People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall
> festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know).  
> We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are
> Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.
> 
> Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
> This would include any major folk music or dance events, not just
> English.

rum & onions (the hallowe'en contra dance in princeton) is scheduled for
saturday, october 26.

cheers,

susie lorand


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 08:58:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:57:49 +0000
From: Michael Serafin <michael_serafin-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 19th/Early 20th Century ECD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F13nJt98LDXFNeMnn7j0000c180-AT-
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Just out of curiousity, what was the status of ECD during the American Civil 
War and the British and American Victorian eras?                             
                                                                 Michael



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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:17:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:55:22 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: nomad dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020309.121041.-451397.0.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
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Re Barbara Ruth, and Nomad conflicts, The NY Pinewoods Folk 
Music Club will be having their Fall Weekend on Oct 18-20.



+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:22:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Return-Path: <srkennedy-AT-
msn.com>
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:26:40 -0500
From: Ridge Kennedy <srkennedy-AT-
msn.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NDBBLDFCILFGBPBKIAPCGEFBCLAA.srkennedy-AT-
msn.com>
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Rum & Onions, a day-long contra event, is held on the last weekend in Oct.

Ridge Kennedy
Washington, NJ  [No Exit]
When you stumble, make it part of the dance.  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:32:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:10:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: 19th/Early 20th Century ECD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KF5PT8NXI89GCNPC-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Michael Serafin wrote:

> Just out of curiousity, what was the status of ECD during the American Civil
> War and the British and American Victorian eras?

It was quite out of fashion in the urban ballroom, with a very few exceptions.
(Virginia Reel / Roger de Coverly was still done.)  By the early 1860s, Mr.
Hillgrove's manual deprecates the old-fashioned and excessively merry contry
dances, but gives six of them anyway.

Contemporary accounts show that ballroom programs were overwhelmingly couple
dance (waltz/galop/polka/polka redowa) and quadrilles.

Contra dancing was still happening in rural New England, big circle in
Appalachia, squares (presumably) in the Midwest and West, and "barn dance"
country dances in rural England, but this was all off the radar of anyone who
published (except for maybe Thomas Hardy).

No market for dancing masters in ECD, no ECD publications.  As population
concentrated in the cities, no general exposure to ECD.

This is why Sharp's efforts of the early 1900s are called a "revival."

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:13:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:12:59 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Assembly Workshop Weekend
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <104.122fbb7e.29bbff0b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The weekend after next (March 23/24) we have our annual Workshop Weekend in 
Edinburgh. This year, following the success of having an overseas Teacher 
last year(Gene Murrow) we have the wonderful prospect of a weekend in the 
tender care of Simone Verheyen from Belgium. 
    She has drawn up a really varied and interesting programme for the 
weekend, travelling from classic Playford to modern compositions 
(particularly those of Aegle Hoekstra) and on through to Contras and Squares.
    Anyone interested should have a look at 
                                <A HREF="http://">www.nicolasbroadbridge.com
</A>
    where all details will be found, plus downloadable (I don't believe I 
just wrote a word like that!) forms. 
    What is not there is the welcome which awaits anyone who cares to join us 
for all or part of the weekend, but that will have to be experienced "in the 
flesh"!

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.   
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:16:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:16:21 -0500 (EST)
From: ACFerg-AT-
cs.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <fe.14d6f41f.29bceee5-AT-
cs.com>
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In a message dated 3/8/02 6:04:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:


> People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall
> festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know).  
> We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are
> Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27.  The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.
> 
> Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
> 

The Boston CDS Fall Favorites dance will be on October 26.

Arthur Ferguson

--Boundary_(ID_3EQSlNnxV0C7QVB+GTHeaA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 3/8/02 6:04:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall
<BR>festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know). &nbsp;
<BR>We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are
<BR>Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27. &nbsp;The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20.
<BR>
<BR>Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts? 
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>The Boston CDS Fall Favorites dance will be on October 26.
<BR>
<BR>Arthur Ferguson</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_3EQSlNnxV0C7QVB+GTHeaA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:29:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:28:22 -0800 (PST)
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancin' Fools (Barely on topic)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200203102128.g2ALSMo24571-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The following post barely falls within list charter, and only because
the editor or CDSS news asked about the following quote in the latest issue:

"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we may as well dance." 

Nevertheless, perhaps my reply to the editor is of interest to some.

I got my copy of CDSS news Friday and for once read through the whole
thing right away.  The quotation is actually from the lyrics of a
regional folkdance called "Awa odori" from Tokushima prefecture on the
island Shikoku that is just south of the main island, Honshuu, in Japan.
("Awa" is the old name for that region.)  This dance is a "bon odori",
i.e., a dance for the festival of returning ancestral spirits, which
takes place in July/August each year.  There are lots of different bon
odori from various regions, but Awa odori has become extremely popular
nationwide.  Tourists come from all over Japan for the Bon Festival in
Tokushima each year August 12-15.  It has a combination of simplicity
and exuberance that makes it easy to join in.  One can often see it
performed by various groups at neighborhood festivals in Tokyo, which is
nowhere near the original source of the dance.  (Similarly we have
contradancing in California.)

It's hard to describe Awa odori in words, so I've put a 4-minute mp3
file at <http://seki.csuhayward.edu/awa.mp3> for your listening
pleasure.  (Normally the dance would run for much longer; I have one CD
of Awa odori that consists of just two 26-minute cuts.)  Some of the
websites listed below have pictures, and in any case, you can find
useful links by inputting "awa odori" into Google.

If you listen to the mp3, it starts with just instruments (shamisen,
fife, drum, bells), then there are some encouraging shouts that have no
literal meaning:

"Ha! Yatosa! Yatosa!" [several times].

"Eraiyatcha! Eraiyatcha! Yoi yoi yoi yoi!"

The actual lyric only comes about 2:40 in, done in a shouting style:

"Odoru ahou ni miru ahou, onaji aho nara odoranya son son."

which literally means:

"We are foolish people who dance or see (people dance).
If after all we are foolish, we lose if we don't dance."

I think your translation in the newsletter

"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we may as well dance." 
is quite idiomatic and on the mark.  

Then the next lyrics are sung very slowly.  

"Awa no dono sama hachisuka-kou ga ima ni nokoseshi Awa odori"

"What Awa's Lord Hachisuka left us to the present day is Awa odori."

I just found on the web that there was a Lord Hachisuka who came to
Tokushima in 1585 and made it the capital of Awa (old name for that
region). The same website: 
<http://www.kagawa-jc.ac.jp/~steve_mc/shikoku/tokushima.html> 
has some history and translates the famous phrase as:

Dancers are fools; lookers-on are fools!
If both are fools, why not be dancing fools!

The name of the song, which dates back to the Edo period (1603-1867), is
*Yoshikono bushi*.  The liner notes tell me that this popular song
spread throught the country and actually replaced the original *Haiya
bushi* melody to which Awa odori was originally danced.  I haven't been
able to trace the history of this song yet, which is, of course, the
original source of the verse.  Doubtless the verse would be obscure by
now except for its preservation in the folkdance context.  

The following are some of the better sites about Awa odori in English:

http://www.country-dance.com/English/e-event/e-awaodori/awaodori-main.html
http://jin.jcic.or.jp/kidsweb/calendar/august/awaodori.html
http://jin.jcic.or.jp/atlas/festivals/fes12.html
http://www1.pref.tokushima.jp/english/awaodori/odori1_e.html [Requires Shockwave]

I thank my colleague Kazuo Yana for pointing me in the right direction
and ensuring the accuracy of my translation.

                                    Tom/Sven
Tom Roby                                      Department of Math & CS
metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu                 California State University
[Fax] 510-885-4314,4169                       25800 Carlos Bee Blvd.
[Off] 510-885-2691,3591                       Hayward, CA 945423092
                   http://seki.csuhayward.edu 	     
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Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:37:00 PST
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Subject: RE: Dancin' Fools (Barely on topic)
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   New York's public Obon Festival, run by the New York Buddhist Church, occurs in Bryant Park on the second Sunday in July, with all invited to join the BON ODORI.

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Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:32:58 PST
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:33:08 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Elverton Grove
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
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I'm trying to work out the dance Elverton Grove.  
Any assistance appreciated on the following questions:
are the figure 8s full figure 8s? in a 12 count?
is it a skipping step? and if so, is the rest of the dance a walking step?
is the dance "proper" throughout?

Thanks,

Dianna 
Houston, TX, USA
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:52:07 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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The interpretation commonly used is that of Tom Cook. In it, the fig-8s are
full and occupy 12 counts (and are a bit of race even at that). I don't
remember whether or not Cook specifies sk.-s. for them, but I think you'd
never make it without.
The dance is proper. Very few "period" dances had improper couples (a few,
but not many). "King of Poland" "The Woman's the Man," and a handful of
others.



Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."



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Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:45:02 PST
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:37:32 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
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At 04:33 PM 3/11/2002 -0600, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>I'm trying to work out the dance Elverton Grove.
>Any assistance appreciated on the following questions:
>are the figure 8s full figure 8s?

Yes.

>  in a 12 count?

Yes.

>is it a skipping step?

Yes.

>  and if so, is the rest of the dance a walking step?

Yes.

>is the dance "proper" throughout?

I'm not sure what you mean.  All are proper to start.  In A1 (5-8), 
partners cross and loop right to face one another.  At this point all are 
improper.  However, A2 brings everyone back home, and all are proper 
throughout the B music.

Elverton Grove is on our ball program [CDNY] and I believe the instructions 
are posted on our web site: www.cdny.org  We follow Tom Cook's 
interpretation, as published in Come Let's Be Merry.  It's a great 
dance--have fun!

Sharon Green


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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:07:25 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001c1c951$82b63e00$ad957ad5-AT-
michael>
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Sharon Green wrote:

>We follow Tom Cook's interpretation, as published in Come Let's Be
Merry.  

For those seeking "authenticity" then beware that Tom Cook's
interpretation has some significant differences from the original.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk

 

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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:14:13 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:11:49 -0500
From: Dick Wexelblat <dick.wexelblat-AT-
comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Potential NOMAD dates
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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cs.com>

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
Prefer earlier...<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ACFerg-AT-
cs.com">ACFerg-AT-
cs.com</a> wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:fe.14d6f41f.29bceee5-AT-
cs.com"><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2">
In a message dated 3/8/02 6:04:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com">barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com</a>
writes: <br>
  <br>
  <br>
  </font></font>
  <blockquote type="CITE" style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(0,0,255); margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; "><font face="arial,helvetica"><font size="2">
People have been asking about the next NOMAD date (annual fall <br>
festival in Newtown, Connecticut for those who don't already know). &nbsp; <br>
We just got the school schedule and the available dates for us are <br>
Oct 18-20, or Oct 25-27. &nbsp;The school would prefer us on Oct. 18-20. <br>
    <br>
Would people on this list let me know about potential conflicts?  <br>
    </font></font></blockquote>
    <font face="arial,helvetica"><font color="#000000" size="3" family="SANSSERIF" face="Arial" lang="0"><br>
    </font><font color="#000000" size="2" family="SANSSERIF" face="Arial" lang="0"><br>
The Boston CDS Fall Favorites dance will be on October 26. <br>
    <br>
Arthur Ferguson</font></font></blockquote>
    <br>
    </body>
    </html>

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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:43:45 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:44 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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michael>

Can you suggest where I might be able to find the original?
Thanks for all the great help from everyone who responded,
Dianna

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Barraclough" <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Elverton Grove


| Sharon Green wrote:
| 
| >We follow Tom Cook's interpretation, as published in Come Let's Be
| Merry.  
| 
| For those seeking "authenticity" then beware that Tom Cook's
| interpretation has some significant differences from the original.
| 
| Michael Barraclough
| http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk
| 
|  
| 
| 
================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:04:41 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Those ambiguous Elvertons! those dusky groves! was: Re: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF7CDC6FA9.64D4DBB4-ON85256B7A.00533EC3-AT-
infinity.com>
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Well, it just so happens that I have *EG* here with me. Here are the
original instructions:
'All four turn single and foot it four times, the men change place with the
wo. turn single all four meet with their backs together and foot it four
times, all four to their proper places : | the two men lead through the two
we. and the two we. through the two men, the first cupple go the whole
figure through the 2 cupple, then the 2 cupple go the whole figure through
the first cupple the first cupple cast off.'



Yes, just like that.

Like a number of others, I have a hunger for seeing the sources and making
my own assessment of the adaptation. In this case, I always felt less than
satisfied with Tom Cook's very quick fig.-8s, but whaddya know, they seem
to be a feature of the original too.

But beware! I would *never* recommend, just for the sake of authenticity,
running the dance from these instructions and hoping it "works" (i.e., that
there is time enough for the figures; that the tune and the figures match;
that it progresses!). Nor running the dance from these instructions and
assuming that you will have a satisfying dance.

I have been (on and off) worrying at *EG* for a while now, like a dog with
a tough bone, and while I view Tom Cook's changes as rather aggressive, I
now don't wonder at them. I don't honestly quite know what the original
choreographer intended in the A section (and while the music has the double
|| after bar 8 that *suggests* a repeat, as in other sources, it nowhere
says, as it does in so many dances, "The first strain once, and the second
strain but once"). I remain puzzled by the end of the B section (I cannot
but be reminded of the period instructions that advise the leading couple
to *run* the figure through).

I don't think it's ever possible to say with conviction, Well, we'll just
do what they did. Firstly: we don't and can't know with certainty what they
did. Secondly: we have already (in ECD-land), for simplicity's sake, made
certain notable compromises--e.g, not for the most part using period
step-combinations; adapting many triple minors to duple minors; making
certain assumptions (is "set" in 1650 related to "foot it" in 1710? how? we
usually treat them as the same step) that link us and our work to other
English Country Dancers around the world. Thirdly, do we *want* to do what
they did? Are we re-enactors, or are we dancing for our pleasure and
betterment?

Myself, I always want to make an educated guess about what was happening on
the floor of the Dancing Schoole--but I have very few qualms about making
changes for modern dancers, so long as I show my work, as in a mathematics
examination.

There are the dances that may have used the tune they couldn't hear enough
of in 1689, the "Macarena" or "Who Let the Dogs Out" of their day--but the
dances themselves are negligible, and always were. There are the dances
that may always have been aimed over the heads of garden-variety spa-town
ballgoers. There are dances that are lost to us unless we use period
stepwork (some instructions say, "This must be danced using the
Minuet-step," and they are rarely wrong about that).

In sum, all of the dances we love represent *compromises* with the splendid
heritage. Tom Cook's "Elverton Grove" is not the dance that might have been
danced under the nose of Congreve--but it needn't be.

Graham

P.S. For a real reconstructor's nightmare, see "Trip to the Camp," the
other period dance to this tune. Oy vey 's mir.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."



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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:52:16 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:52:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elverton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200203121652.QAA17286-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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Elverton Grove is in Vol II (3rd and 4th edns) of the Dancing Master which was published by John Young.  It is also in Walsh's 24 for dances for 1712 (I think that's the right year).  In The Dancing Master it is called A Trip to the Camp: Or, Elverton Grove.

Tom Cooks version for modern consupmtion is published in Come Let's Be Merry, EFDSS, London 1975.  ISBN 0 85418 113 X

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk


On Tuesday, March 12, 2002 at 08:43:44 AM, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:

> Can you suggest where I might be able to find the original?
> Thanks for all the great help from everyone who responded,
> Dianna
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Barraclough" <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
> To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:07 PM
> Subject: RE: Elverton Grove
> 
> 
> | Sharon Green wrote:
> | 
> | >We follow Tom Cook's interpretation, as published in Come Let's Be
> | Merry.  
> | 
> | For those seeking "authenticity" then beware that Tom Cook's
> | interpretation has some significant differences from the original.
> | 
> | Michael Barraclough
> | http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk
> | 
> |  
> | 
> | 
> 
> 


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:19:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:17:56 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elverton Grove (bibliographical)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFD47BA8AA.7C47B613-ON85256B7A.005ED2BD-AT-
infinity.com>
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"Elverton Grove is in Vol II (3rd and 4th edns) of the Dancing Master which
was published by John Young.  It is also in Walsh's 24 for dances for 1712
(I think that's the right year).  In The Dancing Master it is called A Trip
to the Camp: Or, Elverton Grove.


Tom Cooks version for modern consupmtion is published in Come Let's Be
Merry, EFDSS, London 1975.  ISBN 0 85418 113 X"

Quite so; *except* that Walsh's dance is "Elverton Grove"; Young's dance of
1728 or thereabouts is "A trip to the camp; or, Elverton Grove," and uses
EG's tune, but has rather different (almost impossible! ) figures.
Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109

"Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow."



**********************************************************************
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intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

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MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:11:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:11:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Those ambiguous Elvertons! -- Not to mention the spelling...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020312181137.65822.qmail-AT-
web13609.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:
> 
> Well, it just so happens that I have *EG* here with me.

Now that is being prepared.  Do you always carry instructions to ECD
dances with you to work, just in case someone happens to ask for the
original instructions to something?


 (Various snips follow)
> Here are the
> original instructions: 

> then the 2 cupple go the whole figure through
> the first cupple the first cupple cast off.'

>  In this case, I always felt
> less than
> satisfied with Tom Cook's very quick fig.-8s, but whaddya know,
> they seem to be a feature of the original too.
 
> I have been (on and off) worrying at *EG* for a while now, like a
> dog with
> a tough bone, and while I view Tom Cook's changes as rather
> aggressive, I now don't wonder at them.

> we have already (in ECD-land), for simplicity's sake, made
> certain notable compromises--e.g, not for the most part using
> period
> step-combinations; adapting many triple minors to duple minors;
> making
> certain assumptions (is "set" in 1650 related to "foot it" in 1710?
> how? we
> usually treat them as the same step) that link us and our work to
> other
> English Country Dancers around the world. Thirdly, do we *want* to
> do what
> they did? Are we re-enactors, or are we dancing for our pleasure
> and
> betterment?

Graham, I am in complete agreement with you on the idea of making
original sources available, but accepting that modern ECD is a
phenomenon in its own right, that it's perfectly reasonable to adapt
dances in ways to suit our enjoyment of them, with the caveat that we
don't go so far as to "violate the spirit" of the dance, which of
course will be a subjective assessment that differs from dancer to
dancer.

Given that, for me the absolute joy of Elverton Grove is in that
first, and more imaginatively reconstructed section, with the balance
back and then swooping in and back and then across the line.  It is
exactly the kind of ECD moment that makes my heart lift up with joy
inside me.  I remember dancing it at the end of a long and tiring
NEFFA weekend, where I felt as though I could barely drag my body
from one point to another, and as soon as the music to Elverton Grove
began, feeling myself lifted up and carried on a swell of movement,
music and pleasure.  But like you, I have always been unsatisfied
with the rushed figures of eight, and felt that their awkwardness  is
an unsightly price to pay for the beauty of the first section.  As a
dancer, I would happily greet further revisions on the part of any of
you reconstructer/tinkerers who could tweak those figures of eight to
make the second half as joyously lovely as the first.

Barbara


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:14:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0400
From: Lou Vosteen <lvosteen-AT-
widomaker.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Var. on Elveton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110702b8b40fc7a2f0-AT-
[206.246.249.124]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Here is a variation on Elverton Grove that seems to work and is not as
hectic as the Cook version.

A1	(same as before) All turn single and set (or balance fwd & back);
cross over with partner and turn left to face
A2	Repeat to places
B1	1-8	(same as before) Men lead thru ladies; ladies lead thru men
"The variation"
	9-12	1st couple half fig 8 thru the 2's
	13-14	All set once to partners (at this point the music is going
"ta taa, ta taa")
	15-18	2nd couple 1/2 fig up thru the 1's
	19-22	1st couple cast off & cross as 2nd couple moves up crossing

This version is based on another alternate version by John Millar. His
version has the 1st couple complete a full fig 8 after the "all set" in
bars 13-14 and then the 1's cast off as the 2's move up.
(I liked the idea of giving the 2's something more to do since, after
teaching a dance, I often find myself joining in at the bottom of the set.)


Lou Vosteen


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:47:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:44:20 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Friday, March 15, 2002 - Cape Cod MA, USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b8b4889ac976-AT-
[63.214.75.102]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000001c1c951$82b63e00$ad957ad5-AT-
michael>

For those who might be in the vicinity of Cape Cod, Massachusetts 
this Friday: a low-stress, enjoyable evening of English dancing:


Cape Cod English Country Dance
Friday, March 15
8 - 11 pm at the East Sandwich Grange,
                   85 Old County Road, E Sandwich
Musicians: R.P. Hale (harpsichord) and Earl Gaddis (violin, viola)
Dance Leaders: Priscilla Adams and Linda Nelson
As always, all are welcome and all dances will be taught.
Admission: $6
More info and driving directions: reply email,
                   or 508-428-4231 or 508-540-1151
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:39:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:41:33 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Var. on Elveton Grove
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000a01c1cab6$527d8160$fe3c3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <l03110702b8b40fc7a2f0-AT-
[206.246.249.124]>

Surely, 19-22 is half a double fig of eight/Therefor with 2 1/2 figs of 8
and this double we have the equivalent of 2 whole figs of 8 as Per original.
ergo nothing is saved. Top Cooks version is more fun to dance anyway.
francis2.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Vosteen" <lvosteen-AT-
widomaker.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:16 PM
Subject: Var. on Elveton Grove


> Here is a variation on Elverton Grove that seems to work and is not as
> hectic as the Cook version.
>
> A1 (same as before) All turn single and set (or balance fwd & back);
> cross over with partner and turn left to face
> A2 Repeat to places
> B1 1-8 (same as before) Men lead thru ladies; ladies lead thru men
> "The variation"
> 9-12 1st couple half fig 8 thru the 2's
> 13-14 All set once to partners (at this point the music is going
> "ta taa, ta taa")
> 15-18 2nd couple 1/2 fig up thru the 1's
> 19-22 1st couple cast off & cross as 2nd couple moves up crossing
>
> This version is based on another alternate version by John Millar. His
> version has the 1st couple complete a full fig 8 after the "all set" in
> bars 13-14 and then the 1's cast off as the 2's move up.
> (I liked the idea of giving the 2's something more to do since, after
> teaching a dance, I often find myself joining in at the bottom of the
set.)
>
>
> Lou Vosteen
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:03:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:00:55 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ANOUNCE: UK, Wroughton, 23 March 2002
To: eceilidh-AT-
netservs.com, allceilidh-AT-
yahoogroups.com, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001c1cab9$06585fa0$548d7ad5-AT-
michael>
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What?       Wroughton Village Barn Dance
Who?        Expanding Waste Band
Who else?   Michael Barraclough
Where?      Ridgeway School, Inverary Road, Wroughton, Wilts
When?       Saturday 23rd March 2002, 7.30-11pm
How much?   £5 incl Ploughman’s Supper
Tickets?    01793 812282 (Julia) or 01793 438410 (Jean)
What else?  Bar


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:51:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0500
From: Dick Wexelblat <dick.wexelblat-AT-
comcast.net>
Subject: Paganism in British Folk Customs
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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http://www.belinus.co.uk/folklore/PaganismFolkCustoms.htm

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:35:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:38:34 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: St. Louis: The Spring of Two Celebrations
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001001c1cc05$2de268c0$b8294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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Hi folks:

This April will see *two* celebrations put on by the St. Louis English
Country Dancers: the annual Playford Ball, and (six days
later) Miss Pamela's Cotillion, a special event featuring a variety of dance
styles.

The Playford Ball will be held on Saturday, April 6th at the First
Congregational Church of St. Louis (UCC), 6501 Wydown Blvd. in Clayton,
beginning at 7:30 p.m.; fancy dress (your definition). We'll have a list of
the dances shortly, and it'll be posted on the website (see below). It's our
first time in this building, and it looks like a good spot. To get there
take US-40 to Clayton-Skinker (if you're coming from the city and points
east) or McCausland (from points west); in either case, take
McCausland or Skinker northwards until you get to Wydown. Turn left (west)
on Wydown and go several blocks until you see the Washington University
dormitories on the right. (If you get to Big Bend, you've gone too far.)
Turn into the dormitory entrance, then *immdiately* turn right into the
small parking lot. That's the church's lot; the church is on its east end.
We're dancing upstairs; there is an elevator. Admission is $12.00 per
person, $20 per couple, $25 per couple; students $5.00. As always at the
Playford Ball, it's pot-luck snacks; bring things to munch on at
intermission. And we need folks to help decorate; e-mail ASAP if you're
available!

Miss Pamela's Cotillion, a celebration of fiddler Pam Carson and the 10
years of music (and fun) she has given us, will be held Friday, April 12th
at Church of the Holy Communion, Jackson at Delmar in University City (the
site of our usual Friday dances -- map on the website). We'll be including a
variety of dance styles, reflecting Pam's involvement in multiple dance
communities; they'll include ECD (of course), waltzes, contras, hambo,
ragtime two-step, a couple of international dances, and some surprises.
There's a workshop beginning at 6:45, plus mini-workshops throughout the
event -- all dances will be taught. Dancing starts at 7:30; fancy dress is
admired but not required. Again, we'll welcome snacks and drinks, and
beginners are
*definitely* invited. Admission is $5.00 per person, $9.00 per couple, $10
per family. Come sample a variety of dances, celebrate the beginning of
Pam's new adventure -- marriage and Cincinnati, in that order -- and thank
her for all the great times we've had together.

Music for both evenings will be provided by the Original Speckled Band;
Peter Wollenberg and friends will call dances at the Playford Ball, while
Peter will be joined at Miss Pamela's Cotillion by Rin Reagan & Patricia
Dressler (ragtime), Martha Edwards & Bob Green (waltz), Bill & Becky Coalson
(hambo), John Uhlemann (international) and callers to be named later. For
more information please e-mail (pstamler-AT-
pobox.com) or phone (314-664-9207),
or check the website, listed below. Out-of-town dancers, please let us know
if you'll need a place to stay; we can't guarantee one, but we'll try our
best.

Don't forget, while we're here, that there's one more English country dance
before these two events! It happens Monday, March 25th, at Focal Point Arts
Center, 2720 S. Sutton Blvd. in Maplewood; workshop at 7:00 sharp, dancing
7:30-9:3