Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:09:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:11:44 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <20020201.023236.-75887.27.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>

It's true, as a caller you are basically having two conversations/foci
at once: the dancers, and the musicians. And those are different
conversations indeed.
As a musician, I concur with Gene about good, tight (terse)
communciation with the band; and I can just about promise not to be able
to hear you in the midst of a set...agreeing together on some basic
gestural communications (ie, show me the tempo you like in your body;
use hand gestures like those Ric was describing, etc.) is a very good
thing. 
Also, letting those musicians know in advance (once) that you will give
them good notice of when you intend to draw things to an end, and giving
that notice a few rounds before your final so the musicians have a
chance to do any fancy wind-ups they have in mind is very good and
lovely. Out here in BACDS-land where ECD 'bands' are commonly tossed
together from a list of strings, winds and piano players for a given
evening, we commonly agree a playing pattern of tossing the
lead/harmonies back and forth, have a quieter second to last iteration,
and everybody full-on for the final round of a set, so having that much
notice works really well.  

"Dawn C. Culbertson" wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:55:17 -0500 Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> writes:
> >All the other problems mentioned in this thread
> > would be solved/avoided by this sensitive contact.
> 
> Good point. Speaking for myself, I do tend to pay a lot more attention to
> the dancers than the musicians and perhaps it would help things if I
> didn't do that quite so much.
> 
> Dawn Culbertson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 05:04:10 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:01:30 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Kissing dances in the USA
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
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compuserve.com>
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WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? Admittedly I size
up the groups first, but I've done "All in a Garden green" since forever. I
taught it to John Ramsay's Berea College dancers, and shortly thereafter it
appeared at a dancer's wedding celebration. Nice dance, too!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 06:48:11 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 14:48:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202011448.OAA29894-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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> WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? 

.. and I did Would You Have a Young Virgin (aka Poor Robbin's Maggot) at Breaking Up Thanksgiving Festival in 2000 and it went down well (except for the all female couples).  However, these were contra dancers and not ECDers.

Michael Barraclough


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:29:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:38:19 +0000
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: May Day
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C52B14B.AFFD8F0E-AT-
attglobal.net>
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References: <20020123.135840.-1999285.8.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Oxford is one of the epicentres of English May Day activity. Half the city
stays up the night before, then at 6.00am Magdalen College Choir sing from
their tower (I used to be a member, and it's an interesting experience if
you've been partying all night . . ), which is the signal for a city centre
invasion of Morris Men. Except that the local constabulary have been trying
to quosh teh celebrations for years, for reasons of 'public order'. Which is
'ordure', in my opinion.
Paul.
___________________________

Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM

May Cottage, Wherwell,
Hampshire, SP11 7JS

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:13:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:13:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020201181329.73746.qmail-AT-
web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Margherita Davis <margheritad1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> I started dancing toward the end of Phil Merrill's tenure
> in New York....If he thought a dance was going on too 
> long, he would start banging on the keyboard, making his
> displeasure known. The teachers didn't like it, but 
> they caved in. (And we all laughed.) Definitely not
> recommended behavior - only Phil could get away with it.

I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 

To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

Lyrl



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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:45:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:45:22 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: a modest proposal
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F15BJ7HERncIiE000167f7-AT-
hotmail.com>
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I speak as someone who is neither a caller nor a musician. I've been quite 
impressed with the heartfelt discussion about the eternal war of Good and 
Evil, that is, callers and musicians. (I make no staement as to which side 
is Good and which is Evil. Moi, I'm neutral. I can neither carry a tune nor 
remember a dance.)

However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult 
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry 
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition 
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which 
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies) 
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the 
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general 
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."

Good luck!
Steve Corrsin

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:27:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 19:32:11 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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for general 
>entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."
>
>Good luck!
>Steve Corrsin
>
I found this one....In notes to MANX MUSIC FOR THE IRISH HARP by Charles
Guard 1991
Mylecharaine's March....It is used to accompany a lively dance which is
usually performed at New Year. The dance features a Laare Vane or White
Mare which is ceremonially killed, after which the fiddler is lifted up,
blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with his
head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to be
a harper.

Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:52:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:52:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202005206.86717.qmail-AT-
web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:
> It's certainly safer to be a harper.

Especially if the alternative is being a horse.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 17:37:17 PST
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Return-Path: <wlinden-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 20:37:11 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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  I more than once have seen kissing introduced into Rory O' More!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Hanny D. Budnick 74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:01:30 -0500
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Subject: Kissing dances in the USA


WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? Admittedly I size
up the groups first, but I've done "All in a Garden green" since forever. I
taught it to John Ramsay's Berea College dancers, and shortly thereafter it
appeared at a dancer's wedding celebration. Nice dance, too!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:01:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:12:16 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00f401c1ab8f$0c2c7e00$89060140-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>

Think what they would have done to an accordionist.

Marian Phillips
San Francisco

----- Original Message ----- 

after which the fiddler is lifted up,
> blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with his
> head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
> answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
> another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
> stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to be
> a harper.
> 
> Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 05:43:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 13:14:59 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000b01c1abef$da4e9100$699701d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <F181CCtgx8VUkRacUtI00005a34-AT-
hotmail.com>

Hi Ken,

Not sure about the international date line or British/American time on
this one!

Do I mark my diary for Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th ?? (or have I got
a duff diary?)

Cheers,
Trev


> Several UK List members have contacted me about when they could join
in with
> the English Country Dance & Early Music group coming to the UK in May
with
> "Reunion", Gene Murrow et al. Here is one opportunity, and I hope
there will
> be others:
>
> Wednesday May 9th at Cecil Sharp House. A dance in conjunction with
"The
> Friends of Cecil Sharp House". Mark your calendar (or diary if you
prefer)
> for the evening. Price not yet firmly fixed, but perhaps 4 or 5
pounds, and
> we may offer a discount for early booking.
>
>
> Ken McFarland:   farlands-AT-
ptialaska.net
> Brenda Godrich:  vic&brenda-AT-
godrich.demon.co.uk
>
> Hope to see you there!
> Ken McFarland




_________________________________________________________

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 06:43:50 PST
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:43:43 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Re: None of that, please! we're English Country Dancers.
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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relay1.softcomca.com>
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 This is a stock sneer for jumping on <generic religious denomination> disliked by speaker... "<Denomination> are against having sex standing up because it might lead to dancing".

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:04:23 -0500 (EST)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: None of that, please! we're English Country Dancers.


Is this the moment to remind us of the historic admonition--somebody remind
me of its author--oft-quoted on this list--"beware of sex because it might
lead to dancing"?

Judy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:40:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:44:37 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001501c1ac11$4a169520$c9294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <LAW2-F15BJ7HERncIiE000167f7-AT-
hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen D. Corrsin <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>

<<However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies)
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians).">>

What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull every day!

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 13:32:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:34:08 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007b01c1ac31$5dcbd920$dff1520c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com> <00f401c1ab8f$0c2c7e00$89060140-AT-
default>

or a bagpiper :-)
Dianna
Houston, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marian Phillips" <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: another modest proposal


| Think what they would have done to an accordionist.
|
| Marian Phillips
| San Francisco
|
| ----- Original Message -----
|
| after which the fiddler is lifted up,
| > blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with
his
| > head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
| > answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
| > another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
| > stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to
be
| > a harper.
| >
| > Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
| >
|
|
| From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
To: <ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: a modest proposal
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:45 PM

I speak as someone who is neither a caller nor a musician. I've been quite
impressed with the heartfelt discussion about the eternal war of Good and
Evil, that is, callers and musicians. (I make no staement as to which side
is Good and which is Evil. Moi, I'm neutral. I can neither carry a tune nor
remember a dance.)

However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies)
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."

Good luck!
Steve Corrsin

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: "Paul Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
Date: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:40 AM

They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians).">>

What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull every day!

Peace,
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:07:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202220712.19177.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> From: Stephen D. Corrsin <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
> "(...for general entertainment, a bull was turned loose among
> the musicians)."
> 
--- To which Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> noted:
> What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull
> every day!

And sometimes the virtual bull gets pretty deep, too.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:12:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202221226.92287.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not sure about the international date line or British/American
> time on this one!

London time (GMT?) is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:20:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:20:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202222011.93504.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>   I more than once have seen kissing introduced into
> Rory O' More!

But the dance isn't written down that way in any instructions
I've ever seen.

I remember Mary Harrel (whom I knew as a teacher with ex-husband
John Owen in Baltimore _many_ years ago) saying that when she
was a Berea College Dancer they used to try to see how close
they could come to touching noses when crossing over in Trip to
Paris.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:31:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:31:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202223144.95209.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> --- Margherita Davis <margheritad1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I started dancing toward the end of Phil Merrill's tenure
> > in New York....If he thought a dance was going on too 
> > long, he would start banging on the keyboard, making his
> > displeasure known. The teachers didn't like it, but 
> > they caved in. (And we all laughed.) Definitely not
> > recommended behavior - only Phil could get away with it.
> 
--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
> The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
> grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
> Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
> the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
> tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
> at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
> off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 
> 
> To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
> performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
> latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
> gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

I remember this incident, too, but at least a dancer generally
has the whole body moving to the beat of the music. I remember
Marshall Barron, in one of her dance band sessions at Pinewoods,
pointing out that it is much easier to stay on-tempo if you are
moving your whole body to the music than if you are only tapping
your toe.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:01:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:01:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202230146.34657.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've had more problems with musicians who want to talk loudly
> while I'm giving a briefing before we start dancing, usually
in
> the Scottish crowd but  sometimes for English.

Our lovely hall under the Burlingame water tower, where Portland
now has ECD in every Friday night, has a small stage that has a
sloped ceiling and is very "live". I am often frustrated by
musicians who are tuning, learning the tune or otherwise making
musical noises while the teacher is giving instructions. I find
that I have a difficult time separating sounds when there is a
lot of background noise and many of the musicians don't realize
how the sound projects from that stage. There is a minimal sound
system that is used primarily for balance, but the music really
does not need a sound system on that stage in order to be heard
at the back of the hall.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:24:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:24:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202232435.25675.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- cedar-AT-
interlog.com wrote:
> Not long ago I read an article (made in Canada) about TV
> content, which summarized the national tastes rather pithily. 
> Americans are comfortable with violence but not sex, the
> English are comfortable with sex but not violence, and
> Canadians are uncomfortable about both.

I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:28:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 17:55:36 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: good and bad
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202.182606.-215147.2.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Re good and evil, callers and musicians, and which is which.  As it
written:   There are two kinds of people in the world, the good and
the bad.  The good decide which is which. 


+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:30:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:30:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202233020.30881.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> Of course, if the hall caught on fire or something along that
> line, I'd make an exception. :-)

Besides, it would be difficult to ignore the word "Fire" coming
out of the dead silence as the band stopped playing and headed
for the exit.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:10:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:14:21 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020202180826.00a05250-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Andy wrote:
>I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
>that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
>are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than 
Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the same 
partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might be 
quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner or 
the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners every 
dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you 
happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced with 
regularly.

Victoria Bestock, Seattle


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:59:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 20:59:21 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203025920.CXGR1628.chruser-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>--- "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>>   I more than once have seen kissing introduced into
>> Rory O' More!

After which Andrew Peterson wrote:
>But the dance isn't written down that way in any instructions
>I've ever seen.

I've seen it done with kissing, too, in a couple of different 
communities.  As for seeing it written in any instructions, 
it occurs to me that I can't remember ever having read any 
instructions for Rory O' More.  It's one of those dances I 
learned by kinesthetic tradition, I guess.  Would it be wrong 
for people to be kissing without written permission?

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:19:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 21:19:34 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203031933.SRMQ27436.lowblow-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
>> The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
>> grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
>> Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
>> the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
>> tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
>> at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
>> off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 
>> 
>> To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
>> performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
>> latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
>> gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

Andrew Peterson wrote:  
>I remember this incident, too, but at least a dancer generally
>has the whole body moving to the beat of the music. I remember
>Marshall Barron, in one of her dance band sessions at Pinewoods,
>pointing out that it is much easier to stay on-tempo if you are
>moving your whole body to the music than if you are only tapping
>your toe.

In long rooms, there's also a problem caused by the fact 
that sound doesn't travel very fast.  Among the people most 
likely to clap are the dancers standing out at the bottom 
of a set.  By the time the music reaches them, they clap, 
and the sound of the clap returns to the ears of the band, 
there is enough error in timing to cause distress for the 
musicians.  

I've also seen some interesting effects caused by musicians' 
body parts moving out of rhythm to the music.  A very good 
fiddle player I accompany sometimes has complained to me 
about accompanists speeding up on him.  Last time I played 
with him, I realized that he has a habit of tapping his foot 
just a teeny bit a head of the beat.  Left to his own clock, 
he'd probably never speed up, but an accompanist that played 
to the beat of his toe would always be just a little ahead 
of him, tempting him to speed up to catch them.  The race is 
on!

I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously 
when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions, 
and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

Roger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:24:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:24:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203062440.92169.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously 
> when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions, 
> and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

And the deaf guy watching him is always early.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 23:37:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 02:06:37 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203.023522.-124643.6.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:14:21 -0800 Paul / Victoria Bestock
<bestockp-AT-
oz.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances 
> than 
> Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the 
> same 
> partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might 
> be 
> quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance 
> partner or 
> the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change 
> partners every 
> dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger 
> you 
> happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced 
> with 
> regularly.

Good point. And then there's the case, which also happens in the US, when
you sometimes get stuck with someone you'd prefer not to dance with at
all but they've asked you & you've accepted out of common courtesy. I
wouldn't think, under those circumstances, that having to kiss your
partner would be a particularly pleasant experience. On the other hand,
with someone you know well or even a total stranger who happens to be a
very good dancer or good-looking...well, that could be something else
again.

Dawn Culbertson
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:46:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:37:46 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005401c1aca8$ac74bf20$518b01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020202180826.00a05250-AT-
mail.oz.net>


Victoria wrote:
>
> I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than
> Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the
same
> partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might
be
> quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner
or
> the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners
every
> dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you
> happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced
with
> regularly.
>

But in many of the dances it is not your partner you are kissing.  Or if
it is we often have a quick kiss with someone else (may be your
neighbour) when your partner is otherwise occupied?!  We English don't
do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.

Trev & Gill
(who have been to a whole evening of  Michael Barraclough kissing dances
and survived to tell the tale)


--



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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:46:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:44:24 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005501c1aca8$adcc11c0$518b01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020202221226.92287.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>



> --- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Not sure about the international date line or British/American
> > time on this one!
>
Andy replied
> London time (GMT?) is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.


Sorry, but I think this one lost a bit in translation/time zones.

Is the dance on Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th??  My English diary has
not got "Wednesday May 9th" as advertised.

Trev.






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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 05:13:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 08:13:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <24.2050c4a6.298e9177-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)"


--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 2/3/2002 6:47:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com writes:


> We English don't
> do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
> with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.
> 
> Trev & Gill
> (who have been to a whole evening of  Michael Barraclough kissing dances
> and survived to tell the tale)
> 

No Valentine's Day massacre, then? 

- dfh

--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/3/2002 6:47:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We English don't
<BR>do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
<BR>with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.
<BR>
<BR>Trev &amp; Gill
<BR>(who have been to a whole evening of &nbsp;Michael Barraclough kissing dances
<BR>and survived to tell the tale)
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>No Valentine's Day massacre, then? 
<BR>
<BR>- dfh</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 05:53:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 08:53:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: good and bad
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030852180.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, sol weber wrote:

 . . .  There are two kinds of people in the world, the good and
> the bad.  The good decide which is which.

Love it!

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:02:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:02:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030857270.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Andrew Peterson wrote:

 . . . I am often frustrated by
> musicians who are tuning . . .

You might be even more frustrated if they didn't tune...

That at least should be a forgivable sin!

Would a pause for the musicians to tune be preferable?

Eric (who rather frequently has to tune his gut-strung bass viol) Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:11:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:10:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030908430.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Roger Diggle wrote:

> I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously
> when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions,
> and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

I wonder if this might not be a variant of the "fenceposts vs fence
segments" counting problem... 8-)

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:16:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:16:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030913590.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Trevor Monson wrote:

> Is the dance on Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th??  My English diary has
> not got "Wednesday May 9th" as advertised.

The information I have, from a flyer about the trip is that the dance is
on Wednesday (which would be May 8...).

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 10:59:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 13:58:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <ab.166048e0.298ee271-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Roger inquired

>Would it be wrong 
>for people to be kissing without written permission?

And can we be excused if we have a note signed by...er...by...er, nevermind.

Nilos, who often doesn't get it in writing
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:40:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:49:52 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005001c1acec$1ad04280$99020140-AT-
default>
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References: <ab.166048e0.298ee271-AT-
aol.com>

Moral turpitude!

Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"

Marian


Nilos writes:
 
> Nilos, who often doesn't get it in writing> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:42:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:43:29 -0800
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Authority issues...'twas: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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localhost>
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Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:

> I guess I feel that calling--in the moment--is a form of benevolent
> tyranny. The dancing itself is communal, mutual, and supportive (or
> else I wouldn't like it half so well)--but *while* I'm calling, I'm in
> charge. I don't want to be second-guessed by the musicians or the
> dancers; I don't even want to be *rescued*, if I seem to be confused,
> unless I *ask* to be rescued ("Does anybody know how this goes?"). I
> don't want my authority undermined in any way while I'm calling. All
> that said, I think I'm more like Old King Cole than Ivan the
> Terrible--I try to check with my dancers to make sure they're more or
> less happy, and I can certainly entertain suggestions and questions.

Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:

> On a general note, while I agree that ultimately the caller is
> responsible for the whole experience, I wouldn't go as far as some
> with the authoritarian stance.  I've been corrected by dancers and
> upbraided by musicians plenty of times, it doesn't bother me, and I do
> my best to use it in a positive and, if possible, humorous way to
> underline the community/group nature of what we do.  

I agree with both Graham and Gene - I think they're talking about two different sorts 
of corrections though. As an example of Gene's sort of correction, I was calling a 
fairly difficult Colin Hume dance once with Colin in the audience. I missed out some 
move which left everyone in the wrong place for the following move. I was confused 
and was looking round the floor to see if I could spot what had gone wrong when 
Colin caught my eye and, without saying anything, indicated the move I'd missed and 
got me back on track. It was very subtle and tactful. I don't think many people on the 
floor even noticed the correction (they certainly noticed the original mistake), and it 
didn't undermine anyone's authority.

I've also encountered "second guessing" - dancers who've corrected me before I've 
actually made a mistake, dancers who think I've made a mistake when I haven't, 
dancers who are taking the whole thing way too seriously, and people who've 
corrected genuine mistakes but done so loudly and rudely. I also tend to go for the 
benevolent tyrant model, but I'll take responsibility for my mistakes. If a floor full of 
dancers follows my instructions and it doesn't work I won't try and pass the buck. The 
flip side of this is that if dancers try and second guess me or deliberately don't follow 
my instructions any problems they get are their responsibility.

I guess my tips for correcting anyone at a dance (caller, dancer or musician) would 
be as follows:

* Wait until they actually make a mistake - don't assume they're going to make a 
mistake. Also, make sure it really is a mistake and not just different from the way you 
usually do it.
* Give them a chance to realise and correct their own mistake.
* Decide if it's really necessary to correct them there and then - sometimes mistakes 
don't actually matter that much.
* If a public correction really is necessary work out how best to make it - try and be 
part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:04:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:03:54 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1114
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <112.bf7eb92.298f1bda-AT-
aol.com>
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I've suddenly started to get the ECD Digest repeating itself, by the same 
digests arriving agin a couple of days later.
    Can anyon explain this (or prevent it)?

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.   
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:49:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:48:37 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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flash.net>
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Andrew Peterson wrote:

> I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
> that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
> are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

And often times when someone says something is "puritanical" what they
really mean is it's "Victorian".  The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as
their reputation.

--Charlene

-- 
A house without books is like a room without windows.  -- Horace Mann
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
mailto:findbook-AT-
flash.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:57:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:49:30 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>

Marian Phillips wrote:
> 
> Moral turpitude!
> 
> Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"

How does the stuff my mom uses to clean out her paintbrushes
have any relevance to English Country Dancing?  Just
curious.

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:56:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:55:45 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: turpitude (was: ECD Digest V1 #1115)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000501c1ad48$f82c7c00$6401a8c0-AT-
smock>
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No, no, you're thinking of that cleaning agent "turn-in-time" that dance creators use when the phrasing doesn't work.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org <- note new email
http://connect.to/ric

P.S.  "turpitude" is a measure of degree.  If only a small amount of kinesthetic prowess is needed, it's a "tincture of terpsichorean turpitude"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Kalia Kliban
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:50 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Cc: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
> 
> 
> Marian Phillips wrote:
> > 
> > Moral turpitude!
> > 
> > Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"
> 
> How does the stuff my mom uses to clean out her paintbrushes
> have any relevance to English Country Dancing?  Just
> curious.
> 
> -- 
> Kalia Kliban
> kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:30:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:30:24 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As someone with a long history of calling American dances, one of the more
difficult challenges I faced in starting to teach English is this culture of
Corrections From The Floor. With the exception of "Money Musk," where every old
hand seems to have a definite opinion about how the dance should be performed
(quiet forward and back vs. vigorous balances), one can teach a contra dance
without second-guessing from the floor. Choice phrases that I have NOT heard
shouted out at me from the floor of a contra dance include:

"When Kathy Anderson taught this dance, she specifically wanted us to take hands
on the right and left through."
"But that's not the way we dance it at Glen Echo!"
"Don't you want the promenade and the ladies chain in the opposite order?"
"But Ralph Page says clearly in his Elegant Collection that the hands six is to
the right, not the left."

Bob Archer recently shared a series of helpful tips that included this gem:
"Decide if it's really necessary to correct them there and then - sometimes
mistakes don't actually matter that much." 

I'm reminded of a time some years ago when I was teaching a simple dance at a
practice session for our local ball. John Bremer, with decades of ECD teaching
experience but just one of the dancers on the floor that particular evening,
took me aside afterwards and grinned, "Interesting variation that you had us
doing." I discovered that--due to nervousness, absentedmindedness, creeping
dementia, brain drain, or simply inadequate preparation-- I had presented
different movements for one part of a dance. They fit the music, they worked,
people danced them without difficulty, but it just wasn't the dance as written.
John recognized that it didn't much matter, that people would just as easily
dance the correct version when it was presented, and he found a tactful way of
letting me know.

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:56:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:56:28 +0000
From: Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F174ZapsweapaRvfKwI00019c33-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry, I should have said Wednesday the 8th....

Ken

>Not sure about the international date line or British/American time on
>this one!
>
>Do I mark my diary for Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th ?? (or have I got
>a duff diary?)
>
>Cheers,
>Trev


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:07:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>

----- Original Message -----
From: David Millstone <David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net>

<<As someone with a long history of calling American dances, one of the more
difficult challenges I faced in starting to teach English is this culture of
Corrections From The Floor.>>

How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?

Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this differently."

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:19:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:31:56 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Perhaps you *did* learn this differently!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF74DB613B.350E7F82-ON85256B56.00705952-AT-
infinity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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' One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this differently." '
This is why I will often say, if teaching a Fried or a Charles or a Graham
version of a known dance, "For some of you this will not be the same as the
version you may know." Or: "This is the X version."
This is the part of my teaching (along with the date & the purport of the
title) that fascinates about half of my dancers & to the other half sounds
like Miss Othmar (wahWAHwahWAHWAH). But as a matter of principle, I 've
said it.
G



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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:53:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:53:11 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>And often times when someone says something is "puritanical" what they 
>really mean is it's "Victorian".  The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as
>their reputation.

Of course, neither was Victoria.  Look into her diaries sometime.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 13:43:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:41:51 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Subject: RE: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000001c1adc4$c2d63ce0$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually, the English (at least these days) are also fairly
uncomfortable at doing kissing dances (but see below).  The place where
I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the
seventeenth and eighteenth century country dances.

When English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very
popular in England - a contemporary French diarist even refers to the
"kissing" English.  This is backed up by the fact that 11 of the 105
dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing Master have a
kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.  

Whilst the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.
Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country Wake first published in
1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing was probably still
common at the end of the eighteenth century.  

This is not isolated evidence.  In the Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711
John Addison (editor) states "... one of those kissing dances, in which
Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged to dwell almost a minute
on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for the music, and
dance quite out of time."  Clearly there is some literary license at
work here.  However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd Volume of the
Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master and
actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!

Back in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well
received amongst the general public (both same partner and change
partner dances) but less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner
kissing dance was absolutely taboo.  As the swinging sixties and
seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.
Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back again with the occasional
kissing dance being received with good humour rather than stern frowns.
These days, I would be most likely to do one in a dance for the general
public, might do one for a ceilidh and would probably not do one for
folk dancers.

Michael Barraclough


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul / Victoria
Bestock
Sent: 03 February 2002 02:14
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: kissing dances


>Andy wrote:
>I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
>that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
>are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than 
Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the same

partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might be 
quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner
or 
the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners
every 
dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you 
happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced with 
regularly.

Victoria Bestock, Seattle

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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:01:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000801c1adc7$56cf2e00$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>
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Actually, the English (at least these days) are also fairly
uncomfortable at doing kissing dances (but see below).  The place where
I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the
seventeenth and eighteenth century country dances.
 
When English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very
popular in England - a contemporary French diarist even refers to the
"kissing" English.  This is backed up by the fact that 11 of the 105
dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing Master have a
kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.  
 
Whilst the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.
Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country Wake first published in
1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing was probably still
common at the end of the seventeenth (not eighteenth as previously sent)
century.  
 
This is not isolated evidence.  In the Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711
John Addison (editor) states "... one of those kissing dances, in which
Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged to dwell almost a minute
on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for the music, and
dance quite out of time."  Clearly there is some literary license at
work here.  However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd Volume of the
Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master and
actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!
 
Back in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well
received amongst the general public (both same partner and change
partner dances) but less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner
kissing dance was absolutely taboo.  As the swinging sixties and
seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.
Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back again with the occasional
kissing dance being received with good humour rather than stern frowns.
These days, I would be most likely to do one in a dance for the general
public, might do one for a ceilidh and would probably not do one for
folk dancers.
 
Michael Barraclough
 
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<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Actually,
the English (at least these days) are also fairly uncomfortable at doing
kissing dances (but see below).<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>The
place where I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the seventeenth and
eighteenth century country dances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>When
English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very popular in </span></font><st1:country-region><st1:place><font
  size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>England</span></font></st1:place></st1:country-region><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
- a contemporary French diarist even refers to the &quot;kissing&quot;
English.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>This is backed up by the fact
that 11 of the 105 dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing
Master have a kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Whilst
the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country
Wake first published in 1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing
was probably still common at the end of the <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>seventeenth</span></b>
(not eighteenth as previously sent) century.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> 
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This
is not isolated evidence.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>In the
Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711 John Addison (editor) states &quot;... one of
those kissing dances, in which Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged
to dwell almost a minute on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for
the music, and dance quite out of time.&quot;<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> 
</span>Clearly there is some literary license at work here.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd
Volume of the Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master
and actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Back
in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well received
amongst the general public (both same partner and change partner dances) but
less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner kissing dance was
absolutely taboo.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>As the swinging
sixties and seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back
again with the occasional kissing dance being received with good humour rather
than stern frowns.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>These days, I would
be most likely to do one in a dance for the general public, might do one for a
ceilidh and would probably not do one for folk dancers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Michael
Barraclough<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:11:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:41:16 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E16XsGl-0008WV-00.2002-02-04-23-11-28-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 07:00:04 -0800 (PST), Victoria Bestock wrote:
>I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances
than
>Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the
>same
>partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might
>be
>quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance
>partner or
>the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change
>partners every
>dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger
you
>happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced
>with
>regularly.

No, that's all true but in "Maid in the Moon" you kiss two other
people in addition to your partner.

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:11:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:50:12 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Operation
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E16XsGm-0008WV-00.2002-02-04-23-11-29-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anyone who's seen me in the last four months will know I've had bad
back/leg problems.  I'm happy to report that I've now had a
discectomy - a back operation where some of the protruding disk is
removed and no longer presses on the nerve.  I came home from
hospital today feeling great and standing up straight.  I still have
some pain at nights caused by inflammation resulting from the
operation, but this should disappear in a few days, and I'll
certainly be fit in time for my next booking.

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:25:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020204.182925.-351899.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
writes:>
>How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this 
>differently."
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
I learned the joke differently...

How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?

As many as will.

Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:27:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:23:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0202042323150.17718-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


 How many American callers does it take to change a light bulb?

 I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here we do it this
way.


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
> writes:>
> >How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> >Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> >differently."
> >
> >Peace,
> >Paul
> >
> I learned the joke differently...
>
> How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?
>
> As many as will.
>
> Ellen
>

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020205052927.89022.qmail-AT-
web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andrew Peterson wrote: 
> > I remember my junior year high school English teacher
> > commenting that we (mid-60's Americans with the
> > exception of a few Hippies) are more puritanical than
> > the Puritans ever were.

--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote: 
> And often times when someone says something is 
> "puritanical" what they really mean is it's "Victorian".
> The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as their reputation.

One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
others were people who came for economic opportunity. They
must have had as much influence on the formation of the new
colony as those who came for religious reasons. 

At least some of them danced. George Fogg has worked with
the interpretors to present dances that might have been
done. For them, it is 1630, and you can't get them out of
character, no matter how hard you try. It is very
interesting discussing with them what a camera is....

Lyrl



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:37:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:37:21 -0500
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: Recipient List Suppressed: ;
Message-ID: <p0510100cb8851edde12f-AT-
[192.168.1.101]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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Some of you know that I work in one of the Apple retail stores.  Well 
I have to report that today, in this bastion of "think different," 
two co-workers and myself could be seen ranting.  Yes - ranting.  I 
taught one of the young guys and then one of the managers decided he 
wanted to learn.

Who knows why but suddenly today - all three of us, ranting.  Lord 
help us if they actually archive the store video tapes! LOL  They're 
about ready to learn how to travel while ranting.

Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers) thought 
about this.

Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

Mary Beth <-- just because we can.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:05:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KDW43YO75M9FRL6B-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Mary Beth wrote:

> Some of you know that I work in one of the Apple retail stores.  Well
> I have to report that today, in this bastion of "think different,"
> two co-workers and myself could be seen ranting.  Yes - ranting.  I
> taught one of the young guys and then one of the managers decided he
> wanted to learn.

You _go_, girlfriend!

> Who knows why but suddenly today - all three of us, ranting.  Lord
> help us if they actually archive the store video tapes! LOL  They're
> about ready to learn how to travel while ranting.

> Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers) thought
> about this.

> Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

I think you should get a few dozen different rant tunes into an iPod;
then you can show the versatility and portability of that music tool by
getting _all_ the store employees into a processional dance.

-- Alan (ranting fool) Winston

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:08:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:06:12 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020205.010722.-303833.23.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually, the Plimoth folks were separatists, not Puritans and, in any
event, "Puritan" was a much more complex concept than we usually think
of.  Also, as one historian (whose name is so securely locked in my gray
matter that it won't come out) wrote, the Puritans were about 90 percent
16th century English folk and only about 10 percent "Puritan."  Increase
Mather, who very definitely was a Puritan, thought that what we now call
ECD was an okay thing, properly conducted, of course.  

Mike Franch
(Who is not now, nor ever has been, a Puritan)

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:27 -0800 (PST) Lyrl Catherine Ahern
<lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
> Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
> others were people who came for economic opportunity. They
> must have had as much influence on the formation of the new
> colony as those who came for religious reasons. 
> 
> At least some of them danced. George Fogg has worked with
> the interpretors to present dances that might have been
> done. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 02:58:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:28:15 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>

From Paul:-
>
> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
differently."
>
and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
old bulb was?

Trev



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 06:56:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:56:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202050940530.63622-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Lyrl Catherine Ahern wrote in reply to Andrew Peterson:

> One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
> Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
> others were people who came for economic opportunity.

At that time in England, the oldest son inherited everything.  The younger
sons and all daughters had to marry or work to get money.  There was not
much opportunity for work except on a farm or in service (as a servant).
But many of these workers were still not permitted to marry or live away
from their employers' property.  Anyhow they did not have any money to
buy property.

There were several solutions to this dilemna:  One was to join a religious
group and get to the New World where you might be given your property.
And you could marry.

Another was to sign up with a wealthy man (nobility in those days) who was
establishing a "plantation" in the New World.  If you wanted to get
married, you could marry, lose your job in England, sign up to work on a
plantation, leave the old country, and maybe live long enough to have
childen and own your own property in the New World.

A third was to sign yourself up as an indentured servant, i. e., a slave
for a specific period of time like seven years, one third of the average
life expectancy then.

These are examples of what's meant by "economic opportunity."

Aren't you glad we live now?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 07:01:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:01:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202050956210.12808-100000-AT-
zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Trevor Monson wrote:

> >From Paul:-
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> differently."
> >
> and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
> old bulb was?

The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
than anticlockwise...

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:26:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:26:38 -0600
From: Bob Borcherding <bobgap-AT-
attbi.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05101000b885b75a5c9b-AT-
[12.250.224.66]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202050956210.12808-100000-AT-
zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

>The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
>that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
>it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
>(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
>than anticlockwise...

Actually, the reel problem is that the current method of changing a 
light bulb is traditional, not historical--they didn't have light 
bulbs at the time of John Playford!

-- 
Bob Borcherding
gapbob-AT-
yahoo.com
bobgap-AT-
mac.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:26:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:23:57 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b885b75f2577-AT-
[140.186.61.71]>
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zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

>The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
>that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
>it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
>(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
>than anticlockwise...

Of course, if you routinely do cloverleaf turn singles then some more 
opportunities present themselves!


-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:57:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:46:59 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C600C83.9EFC3455-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
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References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>

Trevor Monson wrote:
> 
> >From Paul:-
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> differently."
> >
> and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
> old bulb was?

And the six folk musicians to complain because it's electric.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:17:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:21:57 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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paulstam>
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enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>

> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
differently."
>
<<and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
old bulb was?>>

Plus two to walk out because it's electric.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:26:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:22:15 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000901c1ae74$039636e0$7d91883e-AT-
annhigle>
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panix2.panix.com>

     ...and how many Playford dancers does it take to trim a wick (because
they wouldn't have had light bulbs)?

        Probably 4 - one to trim the wick, and a partner and two neighbours
to kiss after he had done it.

Ann Higley.

>
>  How many American callers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>  I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here we do it this
> way.
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
> > writes:>
> > >How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> > >
> > >Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> > >differently."
> > >
> > >Peace,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > I learned the joke differently...
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?
> >
> > As many as will.
> >
> > Ellen
> >
>
> Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
> http://www.ecben.net/
> Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:42:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:44:25 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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ix.netcom.com>
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References: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202050940530.63622-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>



"Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:

> A third was to sign yourself up as an indentured servant, i. e., a slave
> for a specific period of time like seven years, one third of the average
> life expectancy then.
A common ending of an indentured service contract is that you'd get 40
acres and a mule.
Heady stuff!
-Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:12:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:08:38 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Strathspey list <strathspey-AT-
strathspey.org>
Message-ID: <200202051611_MC3-F0E4-CD2F-AT-
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I've had a question and the individual whom I wanted to ask has removed
herself from the scene. She was a collector of folk dance (all genres)
materials from waaaaaaay back when, and had everything either at her mental
finger tips, on her bookshelf, in her notebooks... and I assume in her
record collection as well. She distributed her materials among several
recipient organizations who maintain some sort of archives. Alas, there was
no indication of what is contained in her total collection, what went
where, there is no cross index..... So, in effect,
nothing can be found anymore and all her treasures are - for all practical
purposes - lost.
Several questions I'd like to consider by our gentle readers:
1) What do you plan to do with your own treasures once you don't
   need them anymore?
2) Where are those archives, and how accessible are the holdings?
3) How can we all make sure that - at least from now on - not more
   things end up as boxes of 'stuff', unappreciated and unusable?
   
Anyone who has any knowledge of archives of folk dance materials, please
share the details with me - on or off list - and I will attempt a
compilation. Perhaps we can prevent further losses?

What I do know at this time is that there are archives maintained
for the collections of
  Ralph Page (at the University of New Hampshire, Durham)
  Ted Sannella ( " " " "
  Sandy Friedman (" " " "
and some of the archives are
  Lloyd Shaw Foundation
  Society of Folk Dance Historians (Ron Houston)
  National Folk Organisation
I'm sure there are more! Your suggestions are most welcome as well! And
more power to you if you have an up-to-date record of your own holdings...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

   
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:09:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:11:59 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C6066BF.A48B4AAB-AT-
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compuserve.com>

At one of Seabright Morris & Sword's days of dance in the spring of
1995, one of our guest teams enountered the delightful Mrs. Mildred
Buhler, who at age 81 was in the process that year of selling her house
and moving to a retirement home. She had about 19 wooden swords (tapered
both directions, with a lovely handle) that Loren Washburn and I bought
(for the use of Seabright, or...) - they were used one year at the BACDS
Fall Weekend when Flamborough was taught, a sword dance commonly done
with (fishing net drying) slats instead of swords.  They had been made
for her dance group. They remain in Loren's keeping.  Seabright has
danced out at the Dominican Oaks Retirement Home in honor of Mildred for
a number of years; I don't know if they still do, or even whether she is
still alive. (I'm currently about 100 miles away these couple o' years).

Mildred also had a huge collection of dance instruction materials and
records, in a great huge piece of furniture her husband had made, and
that she shipped to England in the 40's, where they lived and where she
taught American Square Dance and Folk Dance, leading groups to perform
at the Albert Hall; and carried all that back to Santa Cruz when they
retired. She mentioned to me that she was giving them to a certain
caller of American Square Dances in the Santa Cruz area, but I don't
know who that person was; I just trust that they're in good and loving hands.

The collections of folks who teach over decades are a treasure in the
world, and it's so simple not to realize that one has built up such a
thing of delight to others, that perhaps should be collected.  And I'll
bet most folks this list would immediately bring to mind, whose
libraries we'd all love to come visit and whose brilliance we'd like to
share forever, would respond generally to the idea with "What, who me?" 
How do we encourage our teachers to publish?  As a simple example of one
of Our Teachers who does publish, I have not personally met or danced
with Fried de Metz Herman, but I have learned from her students, and I
get to have the delight of treasuring their stories as well as all her
books of dances and tunes, each page as lovingly and carefully crafted
as the dances themselves...

If you've taught for more than ten years, please ask yourself: what
happens next?

Publish if you will?
Perhaps make an index of all the notes you've made over the years (that
you'd keep)? 
Find and appoint someone that you'd let weed through your notes and
collections and sort the good from the bad from the ugly?
Make arrangements that some day down the road, there will be an archive,
and your stuff - library of dance books, notes on dances, recordings
(audio and visual) will live there?
Are there archives interested in keeping video or audio recordings who
might be delighted to receive a copy of works you have rights to/masters
of, now?
Are you able to create or maintain a website/mirror of electronically
archived materials?

wow. 
Thanks for the food for thought, Hanny.

-Ruth Temple
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:27:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:27:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority Issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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In a message dated 2/5/02 7:01:42 AM, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

>From Paul:-
>>
>> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>>
>> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
>differently."

That's even better than..

Only one.  But it takes six to do the walk-through.

Nilos, who learned it differently...
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:52:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KDX5CZRGHM9FNNFH-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Ruth wrote:

[snippage of nice story about Santa Cruz lady embodying 20th century
dance history]

> If you've taught for more than ten years, please ask yourself: what
> happens next?

In the really ideal world, people with libraries would stay in their dance
communities and either, realizing that they're done with them, pass the
libraries on (whole or piecemeal) to up-and-coming younger people who can use
them.

As proof that this is not, directly, happening everywhere, I've bought some of
my dance books on eBAY from estate sale agents who usually have no idea what
they have.

> Publish if you will?

Publish what?  You can build up quite a good library without having a book in
you.  If you've been composing dances, then, yes, please, publish them, but
maybe it's better - for longterm availability - to publish piecemeal in CDSS
News than to self-publish books which require frequent renewed effort to keep
in print and distribute.


> Perhaps make an index of all the notes you've made over the years (that
> you'd keep)?

I'm a lousy notemaker.

> Find and appoint someone that you'd let weed through your notes and
> collections and sort the good from the bad from the ugly?

At 42, I'm among the youngest English callers in the Bay Area.  (This is scary,
incidentally.)  The friends I'd trust to do that mostly have a good ten years
on me.  And since I'm way better with electrons than paper, I wouldn't be the
best person to do this job for them.

> Make arrangements that some day down the road, there will be an archive,
> and your stuff - library of dance books, notes on dances, recordings
> (audio and visual) will live there?

Archives are a difficult business, and surprisingly expensive.  CDSS eventually
gave up running their own.  The two imperatives of preserving the material and
making it available are in conflict.  It's implausible that there'll be funding
for the Alan Winston archive.  It might be possible, if enough people are
interested, to fund an "American country-dance leaders" archive, which will
accept donations of appropriate materials.

However, space is always limited, and librarians are merciless.  How many
complete runs of CDSS News 1988-2050 does the archive have to hold?  So
probably my duplicated copies will be deaccessioned (is that the word?) and,
poof, my collection is broken up, even there in the archive.

> Are there archives interested in keeping video or audio recordings who
> might be delighted to receive a copy of works you have rights to/masters
> of, now?

Dunno.  Interesting question.  This is something you want to create a
foundation for.  (See below.)

> Are you able to create or maintain a website/mirror of electronically
> archived materials?

Yes, in theory, but this is something you want to create a foundation for.
(Because the point of a foundation, aside from tax breaks, is to outlive its
founders and carry on their ideals.) If I just say, yes, I'll host this, and
I'll buy another 100-gig drive whenever we fill up the 18-gig drive I've got,
that's swell, but what happens when I get run over by a truck?  What's needed
for this purpose is multi-site storage, regular backup regimen, someone whose
actual job that they make their living from is to take care of it, and the
mechanism society has for doing that is to generate an endowment, pay someone
to manage the endowment, pay somebody to manage the archive.

("Something you want to create a foundation for" doesn't mean "Can't be done."
People do create foundations.  It's just that if we want to be sure this
archive survives the death/disillusionment/finances of any one person, that's
what we do.)

> Thanks for the food for thought, Hanny.

Seconded.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:33:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:35:45 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C607A60.23071C0D-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
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compuserve.com> <01KDX5CZRGHM9FNNFH-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>



Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote, responding to my response
to Hanny's wonderful ideas:
> > Publish if you will?
> 
> Publish what?  You can build up quite a good library without having a book in
> you.  If you've been composing dances, then, yes, please, publish them, but
> maybe it's better - for longterm availability - to publish piecemeal in CDSS
> News than to self-publish books which require frequent renewed effort to keep
> in print and distribute.

as one of the editors of the Bay Area Country Dancer, our local region's
quarterly newsletter (comes with a BACDS membership, y'all) of _course_
I mean publishing in all its forms. In the interests of longer-term
archiving, perhaps I might emphasize print, given how fast electronic
forms and formats change - ask anyone who started any form of archive on
[your favorite obsolete technology here].

Among the lightbulb jokes and marzipan figures of these very archives,
rant some really good and thoughtful discussions on basic and finer
points of community-building, dance instruction, music-making, and so
on; these are of critical value to me as a dancer in community with dancers.


The impossibility of 'breaking in' as a new caller on the western shores
of CA is a whole another topic worthy of babbling about. It scares me
too, that in the Bay Area our known 'youngster' callers are in their 40s
and have already been doing it for not-a-short-time. It's simpler to
come in as a musician, and that's slow process, too...
What's it like in other dance venues?

hugs,
Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:03:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:01:17 -0600
From: Chrissy Howell <chrissy-AT-
mail.socket.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD in Cape Town?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04220802b8862695d89d-AT-
[134.124.70.109]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone know of any English Country Dance Groups or Dancers in 
Cape Town, South Africa (or Contra groups in Cape Town or elsewhere 
in South Africa)?? I've looked on the web but have not located a 
group -- although I did find  Scottish Country Dance in Cape Town, 
and a Morris side off in Pretoria.

Alternately, has anyone had any experience with South African Folk 
Dancing (described at 
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/9023/Volkspele/volkspele.html#volk 
) which involves singing and dancing, but looks vaguely ECD-like??

I'm making sabbatical arrangements and it would be comforting to know 
I had some dance options.
Best,
Chrissy Howell
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206042114.58233.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com> wrote:
> Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers)
> thought about this.
> 
> Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

Get a few customers going and they'll keep comig back just to
dance...

I knew a guy in New Hampshire who worked in a store where they
played Contra dance music all day.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:54:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:54:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206045406.48485.qmail-AT-
web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>  How many American callers does it take to change a light
> bulb?
> 
>  I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here
> we do it this way.

To take it full circle: you'd better get it done before the
musicians decide that the tune has gone on long enough.

"Aren't you done changing that light bulb yet?!!"

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:00:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:00:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206050027.64896.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Trevor Monson wrote:
> > 
> > >From Paul:-
> > >
> > > How many English dancers does it take to change a light
> > > bulb?
> > >
> > > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned
> > this differently."
> > >
> > and how about the six folk singers required to sing about
> how good the old bulb was?
> 
> And the six folk musicians to complain because it's electric.

How many Morris dancers does it take to change a light bulb?

Six, five to lift and one to turn the bulb.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:35:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 00:34:32 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C60C068.5070806-AT-
madrobin.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
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References: <000801c1adc7$56cf2e00$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>

Thanks Michael for the 1711 Spectator quote.   There is a wealth of 
literary references linking  kissing and dancing.  If I may indulge your 
bandwidth, I'll share a few.  Working backward from Jane Austen::

Jane Austen
I am glad that the Wildmans are going to give a ball, and hope you will 
not fail to benefit both yourself and me by laying out a few kisses in 
the purchase of a frank.
        Letters of Jane Austen (London: Bentley, 1884) edited with an 
introduction and critical remarks by Edward, Lord Brabourne; Letters of 
Jane Austen to her sister Cassandra Austen, XXVI –Steventon: Thursday 
(January 8, 1801)

Mrs. Hester Lynch Thrale [Later Mrs. Piozzi] (1776-1809)
On the birthday of our eldest daughter, and that of our friend Dr. 
Johnson, the 17th and the 18th of September, we every year made up a 
little dance and supper, to divert our servants and their friends, 
putting the summer-house into their hands for the two evenings, to fill 
with acquaintance and merriment. Francis and his white wife were 
invited, of course.  She was eminently pretty, and he was jealous, as my 
maids told me.  On the first of these days’ amusements (I know not what 
year) Frank took offence at some attentions paid his Desdemona, and 
walked away next morning to London in wrath.  His master and I driving 
the same road an hour after, overtook him.  “What is the matter, child,” 
says Dr. Johnson, “that you leave Streatham to-day.  ART SICK?”  “He is 
jealous,” whispered I.  “Are you jealous of your wife, you stupid 
blockhead?” cries out his master in another tone.  The fellow hesitated, 
and, “TO BE SURE, SIR, I DON’T QUITE APPROVE, SIR,” was the stammering 
reply.  “Why, what do they DO to her, man?  Do the footmen kiss her?”  
“No, sir, no!  Kiss my WIFE, sir!  I HOPE NOT, sir.”  “Why, what DO they 
do to her, my lad?”  “Why, nothing, sir, I’m sure, sir.”  “Why, then go 
back directly and dance, you dog, do; and let’s hear no more of such 
empty lamentations.” 
        Anecdotes of the Late Samuel Johnson, L.l.d. (London: 1786)

Hudson Ralph Janisch [former Governor of St. Helena]
Everybody was very cheerful all the morning but after dinner somebody 
took it in their heads to lead up a kissing dance, so my ill fortune 
would have it, which although very common upon these occasions and at 
other times, gave Gov. Jenkins so much offence and disturbed him to so 
great a degree that he immediately called for his horse, broke up the 
company, took the young ladies with him and went away in great 
displeasure, and from that moment for several weeks after could not 
endure the sight of Mr. Bazett and Capt. Clarke, though before they both 
stood very high in his favour, yet one of them beside the misfortune of 
losing his favour was otherwise in danger and had like to have paid 
clear for his share of the kisses for he was very near being put under 
arrest for his presumption, and as these gentlemen were my friends I too 
(though not there) had my share of his anger for he never spoke kindly 
to me afterwards.
        Extracts from the St. Helena Records (St. Helena: Benjamin 
Grant, 1885); 1725-1749 [1741]

Dudley Ryder
Thursday, January 5. [1715/6]
I was desired by Mr. Bunkley [a parson], to come and take part in a 
country dance at his house. I did so and had young Mrs. [Miss] Gery for 
my partner.  We were very merry and I danced pretty well upon the whole. 
Our conversation was nothing extraordinary and we had nothing of kissing.
        The Dairy of Dudley Ryder 1715-1716;
        Transcribed from shorthand and Edited by William Matthews (1939);
        Methuen & Co. Ltd. London

Andrew Marvell
When at their Dances End they kiss,
        Miscellaneous Poems; Upon Appleton House, to my Lord Fairfax,  1681

Samuel Pepys
After we had done eating, the ladies went to dance, and among the men we 
had, I was forced to dance, too; and did make an ugly shift.  Mrs. R. 
Allen danced very well, and seems the best humoured woman that ever I 
saw.  About nine o’clock Sir William and my Lady went home, and we 
continued dancing an houre or two, and so broke up very pleasant and 
merry, and so walked home, I leading Mrs. Rebecca, who seemed, I know 
not why, in that and other things, to be desirous of my favors, and 
would in all thing show me respects. Going home, she would needs have me 
sing and [I] did pretty well, and was highly esteemed by them. So to 
Captain Allen’s (where we was last night, and heard him play on the 
harpsichon, and I find him to be a perfect good musician), and there 
having no mind to leave Mrs. Rebecca, I did what with talk and singing 
(her father and I), Mrs. Turner and I staid there till two o’clock in 
the morning, and was most exceeding merry, and I had the opportunity of 
kissing Mrs. Rebecca very often. ["Mrs." then was more akin to our "Ms."]
        Diary of Samuel Pepys, April 10, 1661

Charles II [attributed to]
{The Country Dance.}
{Richard offers to kisse Madge in the dance.}
        The King and Queenes Entertainement at Richmond (Sept. 12. 1636)

William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles, wanton 
compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets, effeminate 
music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which 
savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
        Histriomastix (1632)

Thoinot Arbeau
And there is more to it than this, for dancing is practised to reveal 
whether lovers are in good health and sound of limb, after which they 
are permitted to kiss their mistresses in order that they may touch and 
savour one another, thus to ascertain if they are shapely or emit an 
unpleasant odour as of bad meat. Therefore, from this standpoint, quite 
apart from the many other advantages to be derived from dancing, it 
becomes an essentially in a well ordered society.
        Orchesography (1589)

And, we can't end without . . .
Philip Stubbes
For what clipping, what culling, what kissing and bussing, what 
smooching and slavering one of another, what filthie groping and 
uncleane handling is not practised in those dancings?
        Anatomie of Abuses (1583)

Rich Galloway

    I love no dance so well, as John come kiss me now.
    (Jack Slime, in Thomas Heywood 's "A Woman Killed with Kindness," 1603)



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Subject: Shameless Plug - was KIssing Dances
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michael>

With all the discussion of kissing dances, including Rich's excellent
contribution (starting with Jane Austen, a perfect cue) I could not resist
posting an announcement of this event, even though I don't currently have
any kissing dances planned - although you'll never know what will happen in
My Lord Byron's Maggot:


In the mood for flirtatious and rambunctious English country dancing and 
romantic waltzes as Valentine's Day approaches?  Dress up and come to the
Cyprians' Ball this Saturday night!  


               The BAY AREA ENGLISH REGENCY SOCIETY presents

                 The CYPRIANS' BALL, February 9, 2002 at 

                          Royal Hodge Masonic Center
                         651 Roble Avenue, Menlo Park

                  Doors open at 7:30 p.m., Dancing at 8:00
     $20 at the door, $15 in advance -prior to Feb 6 or at Feb 8 dance party
         $2 discount for members of GBACG, BACDS, SFCOP or COYOTE



Aphrodite, goddess of love, was associated with the Isle of Cyprus, and so
she was known as the Cyprian.  In Georgian England - c. 1790s - ladies who
made their livings by love were known as Cyprians.  [Courtesans, more or
less.])  It seems that the Cyprians had the charming custom of holding
balls where they could shop around for new, um, friends.  Their behavior
might or not be demure.  (This was the era when Harriette Wilson reportedly
had herself placed unclad in a (very large) piecrust and served to the 
Prince Regent at a formal dinner.)  See the BAERS webpage, 
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1815 and follow the link to the
Cyprians' Ball for more information.  It's not the sort of event Jane
Austen would attend, but it's still conducted with  style and class.


The Divertimento Dance Orchestra will provide live music, some by classical
composers.  Alan Winston (a frequent caller at BACDS English dances, and "Knave
of Hearts" of the 2000 Playford Ball) will teach the country dances of the late
1700s  and early 1800s.  There will be both normal waltzes and waltzes with
figures.  The popular "Congress of Vienna" will open and close the ball. No
partner required, although many couples attend; it was the custom of the period
not to dance every dance with the same person.

Location: Royal Hodge Masonic Center, 651 Roble Avenue, Menlo Park
(Off El Camino, same block as the Safeway, five blocks from the train station)

Doors open at 7:30 - First waltz at 8:00.  Scandalous period dress
admired but not requi