Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:09:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:11:44 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <20020201.023236.-75887.27.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>

It's true, as a caller you are basically having two conversations/foci
at once: the dancers, and the musicians. And those are different
conversations indeed.
As a musician, I concur with Gene about good, tight (terse)
communciation with the band; and I can just about promise not to be able
to hear you in the midst of a set...agreeing together on some basic
gestural communications (ie, show me the tempo you like in your body;
use hand gestures like those Ric was describing, etc.) is a very good
thing. 
Also, letting those musicians know in advance (once) that you will give
them good notice of when you intend to draw things to an end, and giving
that notice a few rounds before your final so the musicians have a
chance to do any fancy wind-ups they have in mind is very good and
lovely. Out here in BACDS-land where ECD 'bands' are commonly tossed
together from a list of strings, winds and piano players for a given
evening, we commonly agree a playing pattern of tossing the
lead/harmonies back and forth, have a quieter second to last iteration,
and everybody full-on for the final round of a set, so having that much
notice works really well.  

"Dawn C. Culbertson" wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:55:17 -0500 Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> writes:
> >All the other problems mentioned in this thread
> > would be solved/avoided by this sensitive contact.
> 
> Good point. Speaking for myself, I do tend to pay a lot more attention to
> the dancers than the musicians and perhaps it would help things if I
> didn't do that quite so much.
> 
> Dawn Culbertson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 05:04:10 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:01:30 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Kissing dances in the USA
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
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compuserve.com>
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WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? Admittedly I size
up the groups first, but I've done "All in a Garden green" since forever. I
taught it to John Ramsay's Berea College dancers, and shortly thereafter it
appeared at a dancer's wedding celebration. Nice dance, too!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 06:48:11 PST
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 14:48:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202011448.OAA29894-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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> WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? 

.. and I did Would You Have a Young Virgin (aka Poor Robbin's Maggot) at Breaking Up Thanksgiving Festival in 2000 and it went down well (except for the all female couples).  However, these were contra dancers and not ECDers.

Michael Barraclough


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:29:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:38:19 +0000
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: May Day
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C52B14B.AFFD8F0E-AT-
attglobal.net>
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References: <20020123.135840.-1999285.8.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Oxford is one of the epicentres of English May Day activity. Half the city
stays up the night before, then at 6.00am Magdalen College Choir sing from
their tower (I used to be a member, and it's an interesting experience if
you've been partying all night . . ), which is the signal for a city centre
invasion of Morris Men. Except that the local constabulary have been trying
to quosh teh celebrations for years, for reasons of 'public order'. Which is
'ordure', in my opinion.
Paul.
___________________________

Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM

May Cottage, Wherwell,
Hampshire, SP11 7JS

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:13:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 10:13:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020201181329.73746.qmail-AT-
web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Margherita Davis <margheritad1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> I started dancing toward the end of Phil Merrill's tenure
> in New York....If he thought a dance was going on too 
> long, he would start banging on the keyboard, making his
> displeasure known. The teachers didn't like it, but 
> they caved in. (And we all laughed.) Definitely not
> recommended behavior - only Phil could get away with it.

I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 

To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

Lyrl



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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:45:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:45:22 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: a modest proposal
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F15BJ7HERncIiE000167f7-AT-
hotmail.com>
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I speak as someone who is neither a caller nor a musician. I've been quite 
impressed with the heartfelt discussion about the eternal war of Good and 
Evil, that is, callers and musicians. (I make no staement as to which side 
is Good and which is Evil. Moi, I'm neutral. I can neither carry a tune nor 
remember a dance.)

However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult 
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry 
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition 
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which 
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies) 
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the 
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general 
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."

Good luck!
Steve Corrsin

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:27:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 19:32:11 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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for general 
>entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."
>
>Good luck!
>Steve Corrsin
>
I found this one....In notes to MANX MUSIC FOR THE IRISH HARP by Charles
Guard 1991
Mylecharaine's March....It is used to accompany a lively dance which is
usually performed at New Year. The dance features a Laare Vane or White
Mare which is ceremonially killed, after which the fiddler is lifted up,
blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with his
head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to be
a harper.

Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:52:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 16:52:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202005206.86717.qmail-AT-
web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:
> It's certainly safer to be a harper.

Especially if the alternative is being a horse.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 17:37:17 PST
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Return-Path: <wlinden-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 20:37:11 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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  I more than once have seen kissing introduced into Rory O' More!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Hanny D. Budnick 74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:01:30 -0500
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Subject: Kissing dances in the USA


WHO says dancers in the USA don't like kissing dances??? Admittedly I size
up the groups first, but I've done "All in a Garden green" since forever. I
taught it to John Ramsay's Berea College dancers, and shortly thereafter it
appeared at a dancer's wedding celebration. Nice dance, too!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny

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Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:01:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 18:12:16 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00f401c1ab8f$0c2c7e00$89060140-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>

Think what they would have done to an accordionist.

Marian Phillips
San Francisco

----- Original Message ----- 

after which the fiddler is lifted up,
> blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with his
> head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
> answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
> another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
> stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to be
> a harper.
> 
> Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 05:43:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 13:14:59 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000b01c1abef$da4e9100$699701d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <F181CCtgx8VUkRacUtI00005a34-AT-
hotmail.com>

Hi Ken,

Not sure about the international date line or British/American time on
this one!

Do I mark my diary for Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th ?? (or have I got
a duff diary?)

Cheers,
Trev


> Several UK List members have contacted me about when they could join
in with
> the English Country Dance & Early Music group coming to the UK in May
with
> "Reunion", Gene Murrow et al. Here is one opportunity, and I hope
there will
> be others:
>
> Wednesday May 9th at Cecil Sharp House. A dance in conjunction with
"The
> Friends of Cecil Sharp House". Mark your calendar (or diary if you
prefer)
> for the evening. Price not yet firmly fixed, but perhaps 4 or 5
pounds, and
> we may offer a discount for early booking.
>
>
> Ken McFarland:   farlands-AT-
ptialaska.net
> Brenda Godrich:  vic&brenda-AT-
godrich.demon.co.uk
>
> Hope to see you there!
> Ken McFarland




_________________________________________________________

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 06:43:50 PST
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:43:43 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Re: None of that, please! we're English Country Dancers.
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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relay1.softcomca.com>
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 This is a stock sneer for jumping on <generic religious denomination> disliked by speaker... "<Denomination> are against having sex standing up because it might lead to dancing".

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:04:23 -0500 (EST)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: None of that, please! we're English Country Dancers.


Is this the moment to remind us of the historic admonition--somebody remind
me of its author--oft-quoted on this list--"beware of sex because it might
lead to dancing"?

Judy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 09:40:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 11:44:37 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001501c1ac11$4a169520$c9294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <LAW2-F15BJ7HERncIiE000167f7-AT-
hotmail.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen D. Corrsin <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>

<<However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies)
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians).">>

What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull every day!

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 13:32:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:34:08 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: another modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007b01c1ac31$5dcbd920$dff1520c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020201.193212.-274771.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com> <00f401c1ab8f$0c2c7e00$89060140-AT-
default>

or a bagpiper :-)
Dianna
Houston, TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marian Phillips" <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: another modest proposal


| Think what they would have done to an accordionist.
|
| Marian Phillips
| San Francisco
|
| ----- Original Message -----
|
| after which the fiddler is lifted up,
| > blindfolded and led to where the mare is seated. There he kneels with
his
| > head in her lap and is asked questions by the assembled company, his
| > answers are said to be prophetic. At the end of the dance there is
| > another mock killing, this time the fiddler has his head cut off by the
| > stout sticks that each of the dancers carries. It's certainly safer to
be
| > a harper.
| >
| > Ellen Tepper (harp player who has never killed any fiddlers)
| >
|
|
| From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
To: <ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: a modest proposal
Date: Friday, February 01, 2002 5:45 PM

I speak as someone who is neither a caller nor a musician. I've been quite
impressed with the heartfelt discussion about the eternal war of Good and
Evil, that is, callers and musicians. (I make no staement as to which side
is Good and which is Evil. Moi, I'm neutral. I can neither carry a tune nor
remember a dance.)

However... for you callers out there who have to deal with difficult
musicians, I refer you to Ronald Hutton, "The Rise and Fall of Merry
England: the ritual year, 1400-1700," p.48. In a discussion of the tradition
of the Abbots Bromley horn dance, Hutton cites, "Tutbury Priory, to which
the woodmaster and keepers of Needwood Chase (in which Abbots Bromley lies)
presented a buck every year. They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians)."

Good luck!
Steve Corrsin

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

From: "Paul Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
Date: Saturday, February 02, 2002 11:40 AM

They carried its head in procession to the
church and were thanked with a feast (after which, for general
entertainment, a bull was turned loose among the musicians).">>

What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull every day!

Peace,
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:07:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:07:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: a modest proposal
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202220712.19177.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> From: Stephen D. Corrsin <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
> "(...for general entertainment, a bull was turned loose among
> the musicians)."
> 
--- To which Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> noted:
> What's so special about that? Musicians have to deal with bull
> every day!

And sometimes the virtual bull gets pretty deep, too.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:12:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202221226.92287.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> Not sure about the international date line or British/American
> time on this one!

London time (GMT?) is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:20:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:20:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202222011.93504.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>   I more than once have seen kissing introduced into
> Rory O' More!

But the dance isn't written down that way in any instructions
I've ever seen.

I remember Mary Harrel (whom I knew as a teacher with ex-husband
John Owen in Baltimore _many_ years ago) saying that when she
was a Berea College Dancer they used to try to see how close
they could come to touching noses when crossing over in Trip to
Paris.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:31:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 14:31:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202223144.95209.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> --- Margherita Davis <margheritad1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> > I started dancing toward the end of Phil Merrill's tenure
> > in New York....If he thought a dance was going on too 
> > long, he would start banging on the keyboard, making his
> > displeasure known. The teachers didn't like it, but 
> > they caved in. (And we all laughed.) Definitely not
> > recommended behavior - only Phil could get away with it.
> 
--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
> The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
> grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
> Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
> the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
> tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
> at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
> off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 
> 
> To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
> performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
> latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
> gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

I remember this incident, too, but at least a dancer generally
has the whole body moving to the beat of the music. I remember
Marshall Barron, in one of her dance band sessions at Pinewoods,
pointing out that it is much easier to stay on-tempo if you are
moving your whole body to the music than if you are only tapping
your toe.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:01:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:01:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202230146.34657.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've had more problems with musicians who want to talk loudly
> while I'm giving a briefing before we start dancing, usually
in
> the Scottish crowd but  sometimes for English.

Our lovely hall under the Burlingame water tower, where Portland
now has ECD in every Friday night, has a small stage that has a
sloped ceiling and is very "live". I am often frustrated by
musicians who are tuning, learning the tune or otherwise making
musical noises while the teacher is giving instructions. I find
that I have a difficult time separating sounds when there is a
lot of background noise and many of the musicians don't realize
how the sound projects from that stage. There is a minimal sound
system that is used primarily for balance, but the music really
does not need a sound system on that stage in order to be heard
at the back of the hall.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:24:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:24:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202232435.25675.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- cedar-AT-
interlog.com wrote:
> Not long ago I read an article (made in Canada) about TV
> content, which summarized the national tastes rather pithily. 
> Americans are comfortable with violence but not sex, the
> English are comfortable with sex but not violence, and
> Canadians are uncomfortable about both.

I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:28:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 17:55:36 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: good and bad
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202.182606.-215147.2.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Re good and evil, callers and musicians, and which is which.  As it
written:   There are two kinds of people in the world, the good and
the bad.  The good decide which is which. 


+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:30:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 15:30:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020202233020.30881.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> Of course, if the hall caught on fire or something along that
> line, I'd make an exception. :-)

Besides, it would be difficult to ignore the word "Fire" coming
out of the dead silence as the band stopped playing and headed
for the exit.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:10:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:14:21 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020202180826.00a05250-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Andy wrote:
>I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
>that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
>are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than 
Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the same 
partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might be 
quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner or 
the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners every 
dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you 
happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced with 
regularly.

Victoria Bestock, Seattle


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:59:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 20:59:21 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Kissing dances in the USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203025920.CXGR1628.chruser-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>--- "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>>   I more than once have seen kissing introduced into
>> Rory O' More!

After which Andrew Peterson wrote:
>But the dance isn't written down that way in any instructions
>I've ever seen.

I've seen it done with kissing, too, in a couple of different 
communities.  As for seeing it written in any instructions, 
it occurs to me that I can't remember ever having read any 
instructions for Rory O' More.  It's one of those dances I 
learned by kinesthetic tradition, I guess.  Would it be wrong 
for people to be kissing without written permission?

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 19:19:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 21:19:34 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203031933.SRMQ27436.lowblow-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I remember being at Hudson Guild Farm events--NYC weekends.
>> The barn was a lovely dance hall, and I think I remember a
>> grand piano. At any rate, when we danced Cumberland Square
>> Eight, the inactive couples would start to clap in time to
>> the music. Phil would just stop playing. He only had to
>> tell the class a few times that no matter how good we were
>> at keeping time, after a bit our clapping would get
>> off-tempo, and he wouldn't stand for it. 
>> 
>> To this day, I *never* clap during a dance--or a musical
>> performance, even when encouraged by the musicians. In the
>> latter case, I just sit there and wait until the clapping
>> gets ragged, then I say to myself, "Phil was right."

Andrew Peterson wrote:  
>I remember this incident, too, but at least a dancer generally
>has the whole body moving to the beat of the music. I remember
>Marshall Barron, in one of her dance band sessions at Pinewoods,
>pointing out that it is much easier to stay on-tempo if you are
>moving your whole body to the music than if you are only tapping
>your toe.

In long rooms, there's also a problem caused by the fact 
that sound doesn't travel very fast.  Among the people most 
likely to clap are the dancers standing out at the bottom 
of a set.  By the time the music reaches them, they clap, 
and the sound of the clap returns to the ears of the band, 
there is enough error in timing to cause distress for the 
musicians.  

I've also seen some interesting effects caused by musicians' 
body parts moving out of rhythm to the music.  A very good 
fiddle player I accompany sometimes has complained to me 
about accompanists speeding up on him.  Last time I played 
with him, I realized that he has a habit of tapping his foot 
just a teeny bit a head of the beat.  Left to his own clock, 
he'd probably never speed up, but an accompanist that played 
to the beat of his toe would always be just a little ahead 
of him, tempting him to speed up to catch them.  The race is 
on!

I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously 
when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions, 
and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

Roger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:24:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 22:24:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203062440.92169.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously 
> when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions, 
> and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

And the deaf guy watching him is always early.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 23:37:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 02:06:37 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020203.023522.-124643.6.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:14:21 -0800 Paul / Victoria Bestock
<bestockp-AT-
oz.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances 
> than 
> Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the 
> same 
> partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might 
> be 
> quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance 
> partner or 
> the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change 
> partners every 
> dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger 
> you 
> happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced 
> with 
> regularly.

Good point. And then there's the case, which also happens in the US, when
you sometimes get stuck with someone you'd prefer not to dance with at
all but they've asked you & you've accepted out of common courtesy. I
wouldn't think, under those circumstances, that having to kiss your
partner would be a particularly pleasant experience. On the other hand,
with someone you know well or even a total stranger who happens to be a
very good dancer or good-looking...well, that could be something else
again.

Dawn Culbertson
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:46:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:37:46 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005401c1aca8$ac74bf20$518b01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020202180826.00a05250-AT-
mail.oz.net>


Victoria wrote:
>
> I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than
> Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the
same
> partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might
be
> quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner
or
> the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners
every
> dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you
> happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced
with
> regularly.
>

But in many of the dances it is not your partner you are kissing.  Or if
it is we often have a quick kiss with someone else (may be your
neighbour) when your partner is otherwise occupied?!  We English don't
do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.

Trev & Gill
(who have been to a whole evening of  Michael Barraclough kissing dances
and survived to tell the tale)


--



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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 03:46:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:44:24 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005501c1aca8$adcc11c0$518b01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020202221226.92287.qmail-AT-
web20003.mail.yahoo.com>



> --- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Not sure about the international date line or British/American
> > time on this one!
>
Andy replied
> London time (GMT?) is 8 hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time.


Sorry, but I think this one lost a bit in translation/time zones.

Is the dance on Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th??  My English diary has
not got "Wednesday May 9th" as advertised.

Trev.






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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 05:13:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 08:13:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <24.2050c4a6.298e9177-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)"


--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 2/3/2002 6:47:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com writes:


> We English don't
> do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
> with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.
> 
> Trev & Gill
> (who have been to a whole evening of  Michael Barraclough kissing dances
> and survived to tell the tale)
> 

No Valentine's Day massacre, then? 

- dfh

--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/3/2002 6:47:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We English don't
<BR>do that many kissing dances, but I think we tend to mess about a bit
<BR>with them when we do these dances to enjoy them even more.
<BR>
<BR>Trev &amp; Gill
<BR>(who have been to a whole evening of &nbsp;Michael Barraclough kissing dances
<BR>and survived to tell the tale)
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>No Valentine's Day massacre, then? 
<BR>
<BR>- dfh</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_HInz1ZaPnKRz3MjhXDfTCA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 05:53:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 08:53:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: good and bad
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030852180.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, sol weber wrote:

 . . .  There are two kinds of people in the world, the good and
> the bad.  The good decide which is which.

Love it!

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:02:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:02:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030857270.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Andrew Peterson wrote:

 . . . I am often frustrated by
> musicians who are tuning . . .

You might be even more frustrated if they didn't tune...

That at least should be a forgivable sin!

Would a pause for the musicians to tune be preferable?

Eric (who rather frequently has to tune his gut-strung bass viol) Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:11:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:10:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030908430.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sat, 2 Feb 2002, Roger Diggle wrote:

> I also know of a guitar player who bobs his head vigorously
> when he plays.  I counted on several different occasions,
> and he reliably bobs 17 times for every 16 beats.

I wonder if this might not be a variant of the "fenceposts vs fence
segments" counting problem... 8-)

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 06:16:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:16:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202030913590.2828-100000-AT-
millipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Trevor Monson wrote:

> Is the dance on Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th??  My English diary has
> not got "Wednesday May 9th" as advertised.

The information I have, from a flyer about the trip is that the dance is
on Wednesday (which would be May 8...).

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 10:59:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 13:58:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <ab.166048e0.298ee271-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Roger inquired

>Would it be wrong 
>for people to be kissing without written permission?

And can we be excused if we have a note signed by...er...by...er, nevermind.

Nilos, who often doesn't get it in writing
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:40:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 11:49:52 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005001c1acec$1ad04280$99020140-AT-
default>
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References: <ab.166048e0.298ee271-AT-
aol.com>

Moral turpitude!

Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"

Marian


Nilos writes:
 
> Nilos, who often doesn't get it in writing> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:42:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 12:43:29 -0800
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Authority issues...'twas: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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localhost>
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Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:

> I guess I feel that calling--in the moment--is a form of benevolent
> tyranny. The dancing itself is communal, mutual, and supportive (or
> else I wouldn't like it half so well)--but *while* I'm calling, I'm in
> charge. I don't want to be second-guessed by the musicians or the
> dancers; I don't even want to be *rescued*, if I seem to be confused,
> unless I *ask* to be rescued ("Does anybody know how this goes?"). I
> don't want my authority undermined in any way while I'm calling. All
> that said, I think I'm more like Old King Cole than Ivan the
> Terrible--I try to check with my dancers to make sure they're more or
> less happy, and I can certainly entertain suggestions and questions.

Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:

> On a general note, while I agree that ultimately the caller is
> responsible for the whole experience, I wouldn't go as far as some
> with the authoritarian stance.  I've been corrected by dancers and
> upbraided by musicians plenty of times, it doesn't bother me, and I do
> my best to use it in a positive and, if possible, humorous way to
> underline the community/group nature of what we do.  

I agree with both Graham and Gene - I think they're talking about two different sorts 
of corrections though. As an example of Gene's sort of correction, I was calling a 
fairly difficult Colin Hume dance once with Colin in the audience. I missed out some 
move which left everyone in the wrong place for the following move. I was confused 
and was looking round the floor to see if I could spot what had gone wrong when 
Colin caught my eye and, without saying anything, indicated the move I'd missed and 
got me back on track. It was very subtle and tactful. I don't think many people on the 
floor even noticed the correction (they certainly noticed the original mistake), and it 
didn't undermine anyone's authority.

I've also encountered "second guessing" - dancers who've corrected me before I've 
actually made a mistake, dancers who think I've made a mistake when I haven't, 
dancers who are taking the whole thing way too seriously, and people who've 
corrected genuine mistakes but done so loudly and rudely. I also tend to go for the 
benevolent tyrant model, but I'll take responsibility for my mistakes. If a floor full of 
dancers follows my instructions and it doesn't work I won't try and pass the buck. The 
flip side of this is that if dancers try and second guess me or deliberately don't follow 
my instructions any problems they get are their responsibility.

I guess my tips for correcting anyone at a dance (caller, dancer or musician) would 
be as follows:

* Wait until they actually make a mistake - don't assume they're going to make a 
mistake. Also, make sure it really is a mistake and not just different from the way you 
usually do it.
* Give them a chance to realise and correct their own mistake.
* Decide if it's really necessary to correct them there and then - sometimes mistakes 
don't actually matter that much.
* If a public correction really is necessary work out how best to make it - try and be 
part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 15:04:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 18:03:54 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1114
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <112.bf7eb92.298f1bda-AT-
aol.com>
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I've suddenly started to get the ECD Digest repeating itself, by the same 
digests arriving agin a couple of days later.
    Can anyon explain this (or prevent it)?

Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.   
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:49:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:48:37 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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flash.net>
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Andrew Peterson wrote:

> I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
> that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
> are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

And often times when someone says something is "puritanical" what they
really mean is it's "Victorian".  The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as
their reputation.

--Charlene

-- 
A house without books is like a room without windows.  -- Horace Mann
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
mailto:findbook-AT-
flash.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:57:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 20:49:30 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>

Marian Phillips wrote:
> 
> Moral turpitude!
> 
> Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"

How does the stuff my mom uses to clean out her paintbrushes
have any relevance to English Country Dancing?  Just
curious.

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:56:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 22:55:45 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: turpitude (was: ECD Digest V1 #1115)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000501c1ad48$f82c7c00$6401a8c0-AT-
smock>
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No, no, you're thinking of that cleaning agent "turn-in-time" that dance creators use when the phrasing doesn't work.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org <- note new email
http://connect.to/ric

P.S.  "turpitude" is a measure of degree.  If only a small amount of kinesthetic prowess is needed, it's a "tincture of terpsichorean turpitude"

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Kalia Kliban
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 8:50 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Cc: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1115
> 
> 
> Marian Phillips wrote:
> > 
> > Moral turpitude!
> > 
> > Just felt like using the word "turpitude,"
> 
> How does the stuff my mom uses to clean out her paintbrushes
> have any relevance to English Country Dancing?  Just
> curious.
> 
> -- 
> Kalia Kliban
> kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:30:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:30:24 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As someone with a long history of calling American dances, one of the more
difficult challenges I faced in starting to teach English is this culture of
Corrections From The Floor. With the exception of "Money Musk," where every old
hand seems to have a definite opinion about how the dance should be performed
(quiet forward and back vs. vigorous balances), one can teach a contra dance
without second-guessing from the floor. Choice phrases that I have NOT heard
shouted out at me from the floor of a contra dance include:

"When Kathy Anderson taught this dance, she specifically wanted us to take hands
on the right and left through."
"But that's not the way we dance it at Glen Echo!"
"Don't you want the promenade and the ladies chain in the opposite order?"
"But Ralph Page says clearly in his Elegant Collection that the hands six is to
the right, not the left."

Bob Archer recently shared a series of helpful tips that included this gem:
"Decide if it's really necessary to correct them there and then - sometimes
mistakes don't actually matter that much." 

I'm reminded of a time some years ago when I was teaching a simple dance at a
practice session for our local ball. John Bremer, with decades of ECD teaching
experience but just one of the dancers on the floor that particular evening,
took me aside afterwards and grinned, "Interesting variation that you had us
doing." I discovered that--due to nervousness, absentedmindedness, creeping
dementia, brain drain, or simply inadequate preparation-- I had presented
different movements for one part of a dance. They fit the music, they worked,
people danced them without difficulty, but it just wasn't the dance as written.
John recognized that it didn't much matter, that people would just as easily
dance the correct version when it was presented, and he found a tactful way of
letting me know.

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:56:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:56:28 +0000
From: Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Cecil Sharp House Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F174ZapsweapaRvfKwI00019c33-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry, I should have said Wednesday the 8th....

Ken

>Not sure about the international date line or British/American time on
>this one!
>
>Do I mark my diary for Wednesday 8th  or Thursday 9th ?? (or have I got
>a duff diary?)
>
>Cheers,
>Trev


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:07:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET>

----- Original Message -----
From: David Millstone <David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net>

<<As someone with a long history of calling American dances, one of the more
difficult challenges I faced in starting to teach English is this culture of
Corrections From The Floor.>>

How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?

Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this differently."

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:19:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:31:56 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Perhaps you *did* learn this differently!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF74DB613B.350E7F82-ON85256B56.00705952-AT-
infinity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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' One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this differently." '
This is why I will often say, if teaching a Fried or a Charles or a Graham
version of a known dance, "For some of you this will not be the same as the
version you may know." Or: "This is the X version."
This is the part of my teaching (along with the date & the purport of the
title) that fascinates about half of my dancers & to the other half sounds
like Miss Othmar (wahWAHwahWAHWAH). But as a matter of principle, I 've
said it.
G



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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:53:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:53:11 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>And often times when someone says something is "puritanical" what they 
>really mean is it's "Victorian".  The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as
>their reputation.

Of course, neither was Victoria.  Look into her diaries sometime.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 13:43:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:41:51 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Subject: RE: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000001c1adc4$c2d63ce0$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually, the English (at least these days) are also fairly
uncomfortable at doing kissing dances (but see below).  The place where
I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the
seventeenth and eighteenth century country dances.

When English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very
popular in England - a contemporary French diarist even refers to the
"kissing" English.  This is backed up by the fact that 11 of the 105
dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing Master have a
kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.  

Whilst the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.
Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country Wake first published in
1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing was probably still
common at the end of the eighteenth century.  

This is not isolated evidence.  In the Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711
John Addison (editor) states "... one of those kissing dances, in which
Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged to dwell almost a minute
on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for the music, and
dance quite out of time."  Clearly there is some literary license at
work here.  However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd Volume of the
Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master and
actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!

Back in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well
received amongst the general public (both same partner and change
partner dances) but less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner
kissing dance was absolutely taboo.  As the swinging sixties and
seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.
Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back again with the occasional
kissing dance being received with good humour rather than stern frowns.
These days, I would be most likely to do one in a dance for the general
public, might do one for a ceilidh and would probably not do one for
folk dancers.

Michael Barraclough


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul / Victoria
Bestock
Sent: 03 February 2002 02:14
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: kissing dances


>Andy wrote:
>I remember my junior year high school English teacher commenting
>that we (mid-60's Americans with the exception of a few Hippies)
>are more puritanical than the Puritans ever were.

I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances than 
Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the same

partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might be 
quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance partner
or 
the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change partners
every 
dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger you 
happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced with 
regularly.

Victoria Bestock, Seattle

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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:01:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000801c1adc7$56cf2e00$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>
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Actually, the English (at least these days) are also fairly
uncomfortable at doing kissing dances (but see below).  The place where
I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the
seventeenth and eighteenth century country dances.
 
When English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very
popular in England - a contemporary French diarist even refers to the
"kissing" English.  This is backed up by the fact that 11 of the 105
dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing Master have a
kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.  
 
Whilst the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.
Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country Wake first published in
1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing was probably still
common at the end of the seventeenth (not eighteenth as previously sent)
century.  
 
This is not isolated evidence.  In the Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711
John Addison (editor) states "... one of those kissing dances, in which
Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged to dwell almost a minute
on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for the music, and
dance quite out of time."  Clearly there is some literary license at
work here.  However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd Volume of the
Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master and
actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!
 
Back in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well
received amongst the general public (both same partner and change
partner dances) but less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner
kissing dance was absolutely taboo.  As the swinging sixties and
seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.
Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back again with the occasional
kissing dance being received with good humour rather than stern frowns.
These days, I would be most likely to do one in a dance for the general
public, might do one for a ceilidh and would probably not do one for
folk dancers.
 
Michael Barraclough
 
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<div class=Section1>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Actually,
the English (at least these days) are also fairly uncomfortable at doing
kissing dances (but see below).<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>The
place where I tend to do them most is in workshops where I am trying to do (as)
authentic (as current knowledge permits) interpretations of the seventeenth and
eighteenth century country dances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>When
English Country Dances were first published (1651) kissing was very popular in </span></font><st1:country-region><st1:place><font
  size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>England</span></font></st1:place></st1:country-region><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>
- a contemporary French diarist even refers to the &quot;kissing&quot;
English.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>This is backed up by the fact
that 11 of the 105 dances published in the 1st edition of the English Dancing
Master have a kiss (kiffe, salute, etc) in them.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Whilst
the number diminished, new ones appeared from time to time.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>Hobbs Wedding, A Kissing Dance in the Country
Wake first published in 1696 (the Country Wake was a play) shows that kissing
was probably still common at the end of the <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>seventeenth</span></b>
(not eighteenth as previously sent) century.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> 
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>This
is not isolated evidence.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>In the
Spectator of Thursday May 17,1711 John Addison (editor) states &quot;... one of
those kissing dances, in which Will Honeycomb assures me that they are obliged
to dwell almost a minute on the fair one's lips, or they will be too quick for
the music, and dance quite out of time.&quot;<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> 
</span>Clearly there is some literary license at work here.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>However, if you look at Young Sir John (2nd
Volume of the Dancing Master) and Happy Bride (3rd Volume of the Dancing Master
and actually the same dance) there is little doubt that the kiss is meant to
last 4 bars, some 8 seconds which is a LONG time!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Back
in the mid-1970's when I started calling, kissing dances were well received
amongst the general public (both same partner and change partner dances) but
less so amongst folk dancers where a change partner kissing dance was
absolutely taboo.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>As the swinging
sixties and seventies became just memories and people became more conscious of
AIDS/HIV etc then kissing in dancing became less and less well received.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>Now the pendulum appears to be swinging back
again with the occasional kissing dance being received with good humour rather
than stern frowns.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>  </span>These days, I would
be most likely to do one in a dance for the general public, might do one for a
ceilidh and would probably not do one for folk dancers.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none'><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Michael
Barraclough<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:11:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:41:16 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: kissing dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E16XsGl-0008WV-00.2002-02-04-23-11-28-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sun, 03 Feb 2002 07:00:04 -0800 (PST), Victoria Bestock wrote:
>I wonder if the English are more comfortable with kissing dances
than
>Americans for a different reason.  In England people dance with the
>same
>partner all evening-- usually a spouse or special friend.  You might
>be
>quite comfortable kissing the person who is your regular dance
>partner or
>the love of your life.   In the US it is customary to change
>partners every
>dance.  You might be less comfortable kissing some total stranger
you
>happened to get for that one dance than someone you knew or danced
>with
>regularly.

No, that's all true but in "Maid in the Moon" you kiss two other
people in addition to your partner.

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:11:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:50:12 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Operation
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E16XsGm-0008WV-00.2002-02-04-23-11-29-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anyone who's seen me in the last four months will know I've had bad
back/leg problems.  I'm happy to report that I've now had a
discectomy - a back operation where some of the protruding disk is
removed and no longer presses on the nerve.  I came home from
hospital today feeling great and standing up straight.  I still have
some pain at nights caused by inflammation resulting from the
operation, but this should disappear in a few days, and I'll
certainly be fit in time for my next booking.

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:25:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 18:29:25 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020204.182925.-351899.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
writes:>
>How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this 
>differently."
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
I learned the joke differently...

How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?

As many as will.

Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 20:27:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:23:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0202042323150.17718-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


 How many American callers does it take to change a light bulb?

 I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here we do it this
way.


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
> writes:>
> >How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> >Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> >differently."
> >
> >Peace,
> >Paul
> >
> I learned the joke differently...
>
> How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?
>
> As many as will.
>
> Ellen
>

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020205052927.89022.qmail-AT-
web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andrew Peterson wrote: 
> > I remember my junior year high school English teacher
> > commenting that we (mid-60's Americans with the
> > exception of a few Hippies) are more puritanical than
> > the Puritans ever were.

--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote: 
> And often times when someone says something is 
> "puritanical" what they really mean is it's "Victorian".
> The Puritans weren't nearly as bad as their reputation.

One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
others were people who came for economic opportunity. They
must have had as much influence on the formation of the new
colony as those who came for religious reasons. 

At least some of them danced. George Fogg has worked with
the interpretors to present dances that might have been
done. For them, it is 1630, and you can't get them out of
character, no matter how hard you try. It is very
interesting discussing with them what a camera is....

Lyrl



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:37:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 00:37:21 -0500
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: Recipient List Suppressed: ;
Message-ID: <p0510100cb8851edde12f-AT-
[192.168.1.101]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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Some of you know that I work in one of the Apple retail stores.  Well 
I have to report that today, in this bastion of "think different," 
two co-workers and myself could be seen ranting.  Yes - ranting.  I 
taught one of the young guys and then one of the managers decided he 
wanted to learn.

Who knows why but suddenly today - all three of us, ranting.  Lord 
help us if they actually archive the store video tapes! LOL  They're 
about ready to learn how to travel while ranting.

Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers) thought 
about this.

Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

Mary Beth <-- just because we can.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:05:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:01:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KDW43YO75M9FRL6B-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Mary Beth wrote:

> Some of you know that I work in one of the Apple retail stores.  Well
> I have to report that today, in this bastion of "think different,"
> two co-workers and myself could be seen ranting.  Yes - ranting.  I
> taught one of the young guys and then one of the managers decided he
> wanted to learn.

You _go_, girlfriend!

> Who knows why but suddenly today - all three of us, ranting.  Lord
> help us if they actually archive the store video tapes! LOL  They're
> about ready to learn how to travel while ranting.

> Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers) thought
> about this.

> Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

I think you should get a few dozen different rant tunes into an iPod;
then you can show the versatility and portability of that music tool by
getting _all_ the store employees into a processional dance.

-- Alan (ranting fool) Winston

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 22:08:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 01:06:12 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020205.010722.-303833.23.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually, the Plimoth folks were separatists, not Puritans and, in any
event, "Puritan" was a much more complex concept than we usually think
of.  Also, as one historian (whose name is so securely locked in my gray
matter that it won't come out) wrote, the Puritans were about 90 percent
16th century English folk and only about 10 percent "Puritan."  Increase
Mather, who very definitely was a Puritan, thought that what we now call
ECD was an okay thing, properly conducted, of course.  

Mike Franch
(Who is not now, nor ever has been, a Puritan)

On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:29:27 -0800 (PST) Lyrl Catherine Ahern
<lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
> Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
> others were people who came for economic opportunity. They
> must have had as much influence on the formation of the new
> colony as those who came for religious reasons. 
> 
> At least some of them danced. George Fogg has worked with
> the interpretors to present dances that might have been
> done. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 02:58:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:28:15 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>

From Paul:-
>
> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
differently."
>
and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
old bulb was?

Trev



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 06:56:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:56:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202050940530.63622-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Lyrl Catherine Ahern wrote in reply to Andrew Peterson:

> One of the things I learned on a daylong visit to Plimoth
> Plantation was that only half of them were Puritans. The
> others were people who came for economic opportunity.

At that time in England, the oldest son inherited everything.  The younger
sons and all daughters had to marry or work to get money.  There was not
much opportunity for work except on a farm or in service (as a servant).
But many of these workers were still not permitted to marry or live away
from their employers' property.  Anyhow they did not have any money to
buy property.

There were several solutions to this dilemna:  One was to join a religious
group and get to the New World where you might be given your property.
And you could marry.

Another was to sign up with a wealthy man (nobility in those days) who was
establishing a "plantation" in the New World.  If you wanted to get
married, you could marry, lose your job in England, sign up to work on a
plantation, leave the old country, and maybe live long enough to have
childen and own your own property in the New World.

A third was to sign yourself up as an indentured servant, i. e., a slave
for a specific period of time like seven years, one third of the average
life expectancy then.

These are examples of what's meant by "economic opportunity."

Aren't you glad we live now?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 07:01:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:01:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202050956210.12808-100000-AT-
zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Trevor Monson wrote:

> >From Paul:-
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> differently."
> >
> and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
> old bulb was?

The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
than anticlockwise...

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:26:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:26:38 -0600
From: Bob Borcherding <bobgap-AT-
attbi.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05101000b885b75a5c9b-AT-
[12.250.224.66]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202050956210.12808-100000-AT-
zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

>The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
>that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
>it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
>(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
>than anticlockwise...

Actually, the reel problem is that the current method of changing a 
light bulb is traditional, not historical--they didn't have light 
bulbs at the time of John Playford!

-- 
Bob Borcherding
gapbob-AT-
yahoo.com
bobgap-AT-
mac.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:26:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:23:57 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b885b75f2577-AT-
[140.186.61.71]>
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zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

>The real problem with English Country Dancers changing a light bulb is
>that they'll have little difficulty getting the old bulb out (at least, if
>it's on the ceiling) but they'll have a real hard time getting it back in
>(unless it's mounted on the floor) because far more turns go clockwise
>than anticlockwise...

Of course, if you routinely do cloverleaf turn singles then some more 
opportunities present themselves!


-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:57:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:46:59 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C600C83.9EFC3455-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
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References: <10908829-AT-
enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>

Trevor Monson wrote:
> 
> >From Paul:-
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> >
> > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> differently."
> >
> and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
> old bulb was?

And the six folk musicians to complain because it's electric.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 09:17:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:21:57 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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paulstam>
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enfield.VALLEY.NET> <000801c1adb8$2d3dd820$542e4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <006101c1ae34$5217abe0$548901d4-AT-
trevormo>

> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
differently."
>
<<and how about the six folk singers required to sing about how good the
old bulb was?>>

Plus two to walk out because it's electric.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:26:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:22:15 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000901c1ae74$039636e0$7d91883e-AT-
annhigle>
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panix2.panix.com>

     ...and how many Playford dancers does it take to trim a wick (because
they wouldn't have had light bulbs)?

        Probably 4 - one to trim the wick, and a partner and two neighbours
to kiss after he had done it.

Ann Higley.

>
>  How many American callers does it take to change a light bulb?
>
>  I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here we do it this
> way.
>
>
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:11:46 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
> > writes:>
> > >How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
> > >
> > >Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
> > >differently."
> > >
> > >Peace,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > I learned the joke differently...
> >
> > How many English dancers does it take to chang a light bulb?
> >
> > As many as will.
> >
> > Ellen
> >
>
> Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
> http://www.ecben.net/
> Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:42:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 11:44:25 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Red Hare-ing
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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ix.netcom.com>
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References: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202050940530.63622-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>



"Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:

> A third was to sign yourself up as an indentured servant, i. e., a slave
> for a specific period of time like seven years, one third of the average
> life expectancy then.
A common ending of an indentured service contract is that you'd get 40
acres and a mule.
Heady stuff!
-Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 13:12:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:08:38 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Strathspey list <strathspey-AT-
strathspey.org>
Message-ID: <200202051611_MC3-F0E4-CD2F-AT-
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I've had a question and the individual whom I wanted to ask has removed
herself from the scene. She was a collector of folk dance (all genres)
materials from waaaaaaay back when, and had everything either at her mental
finger tips, on her bookshelf, in her notebooks... and I assume in her
record collection as well. She distributed her materials among several
recipient organizations who maintain some sort of archives. Alas, there was
no indication of what is contained in her total collection, what went
where, there is no cross index..... So, in effect,
nothing can be found anymore and all her treasures are - for all practical
purposes - lost.
Several questions I'd like to consider by our gentle readers:
1) What do you plan to do with your own treasures once you don't
   need them anymore?
2) Where are those archives, and how accessible are the holdings?
3) How can we all make sure that - at least from now on - not more
   things end up as boxes of 'stuff', unappreciated and unusable?
   
Anyone who has any knowledge of archives of folk dance materials, please
share the details with me - on or off list - and I will attempt a
compilation. Perhaps we can prevent further losses?

What I do know at this time is that there are archives maintained
for the collections of
  Ralph Page (at the University of New Hampshire, Durham)
  Ted Sannella ( " " " "
  Sandy Friedman (" " " "
and some of the archives are
  Lloyd Shaw Foundation
  Society of Folk Dance Historians (Ron Houston)
  National Folk Organisation
I'm sure there are more! Your suggestions are most welcome as well! And
more power to you if you have an up-to-date record of your own holdings...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

   
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:09:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:11:59 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C6066BF.A48B4AAB-AT-
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compuserve.com>

At one of Seabright Morris & Sword's days of dance in the spring of
1995, one of our guest teams enountered the delightful Mrs. Mildred
Buhler, who at age 81 was in the process that year of selling her house
and moving to a retirement home. She had about 19 wooden swords (tapered
both directions, with a lovely handle) that Loren Washburn and I bought
(for the use of Seabright, or...) - they were used one year at the BACDS
Fall Weekend when Flamborough was taught, a sword dance commonly done
with (fishing net drying) slats instead of swords.  They had been made
for her dance group. They remain in Loren's keeping.  Seabright has
danced out at the Dominican Oaks Retirement Home in honor of Mildred for
a number of years; I don't know if they still do, or even whether she is
still alive. (I'm currently about 100 miles away these couple o' years).

Mildred also had a huge collection of dance instruction materials and
records, in a great huge piece of furniture her husband had made, and
that she shipped to England in the 40's, where they lived and where she
taught American Square Dance and Folk Dance, leading groups to perform
at the Albert Hall; and carried all that back to Santa Cruz when they
retired. She mentioned to me that she was giving them to a certain
caller of American Square Dances in the Santa Cruz area, but I don't
know who that person was; I just trust that they're in good and loving hands.

The collections of folks who teach over decades are a treasure in the
world, and it's so simple not to realize that one has built up such a
thing of delight to others, that perhaps should be collected.  And I'll
bet most folks this list would immediately bring to mind, whose
libraries we'd all love to come visit and whose brilliance we'd like to
share forever, would respond generally to the idea with "What, who me?" 
How do we encourage our teachers to publish?  As a simple example of one
of Our Teachers who does publish, I have not personally met or danced
with Fried de Metz Herman, but I have learned from her students, and I
get to have the delight of treasuring their stories as well as all her
books of dances and tunes, each page as lovingly and carefully crafted
as the dances themselves...

If you've taught for more than ten years, please ask yourself: what
happens next?

Publish if you will?
Perhaps make an index of all the notes you've made over the years (that
you'd keep)? 
Find and appoint someone that you'd let weed through your notes and
collections and sort the good from the bad from the ugly?
Make arrangements that some day down the road, there will be an archive,
and your stuff - library of dance books, notes on dances, recordings
(audio and visual) will live there?
Are there archives interested in keeping video or audio recordings who
might be delighted to receive a copy of works you have rights to/masters
of, now?
Are you able to create or maintain a website/mirror of electronically
archived materials?

wow. 
Thanks for the food for thought, Hanny.

-Ruth Temple
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:27:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:27:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority Issues
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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In a message dated 2/5/02 7:01:42 AM, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

>From Paul:-
>>
>> How many English dancers does it take to change a light bulb?
>>
>> Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned this
>differently."

That's even better than..

Only one.  But it takes six to do the walk-through.

Nilos, who learned it differently...
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:52:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 15:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KDX5CZRGHM9FNNFH-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Ruth wrote:

[snippage of nice story about Santa Cruz lady embodying 20th century
dance history]

> If you've taught for more than ten years, please ask yourself: what
> happens next?

In the really ideal world, people with libraries would stay in their dance
communities and either, realizing that they're done with them, pass the
libraries on (whole or piecemeal) to up-and-coming younger people who can use
them.

As proof that this is not, directly, happening everywhere, I've bought some of
my dance books on eBAY from estate sale agents who usually have no idea what
they have.

> Publish if you will?

Publish what?  You can build up quite a good library without having a book in
you.  If you've been composing dances, then, yes, please, publish them, but
maybe it's better - for longterm availability - to publish piecemeal in CDSS
News than to self-publish books which require frequent renewed effort to keep
in print and distribute.


> Perhaps make an index of all the notes you've made over the years (that
> you'd keep)?

I'm a lousy notemaker.

> Find and appoint someone that you'd let weed through your notes and
> collections and sort the good from the bad from the ugly?

At 42, I'm among the youngest English callers in the Bay Area.  (This is scary,
incidentally.)  The friends I'd trust to do that mostly have a good ten years
on me.  And since I'm way better with electrons than paper, I wouldn't be the
best person to do this job for them.

> Make arrangements that some day down the road, there will be an archive,
> and your stuff - library of dance books, notes on dances, recordings
> (audio and visual) will live there?

Archives are a difficult business, and surprisingly expensive.  CDSS eventually
gave up running their own.  The two imperatives of preserving the material and
making it available are in conflict.  It's implausible that there'll be funding
for the Alan Winston archive.  It might be possible, if enough people are
interested, to fund an "American country-dance leaders" archive, which will
accept donations of appropriate materials.

However, space is always limited, and librarians are merciless.  How many
complete runs of CDSS News 1988-2050 does the archive have to hold?  So
probably my duplicated copies will be deaccessioned (is that the word?) and,
poof, my collection is broken up, even there in the archive.

> Are there archives interested in keeping video or audio recordings who
> might be delighted to receive a copy of works you have rights to/masters
> of, now?

Dunno.  Interesting question.  This is something you want to create a
foundation for.  (See below.)

> Are you able to create or maintain a website/mirror of electronically
> archived materials?

Yes, in theory, but this is something you want to create a foundation for.
(Because the point of a foundation, aside from tax breaks, is to outlive its
founders and carry on their ideals.) If I just say, yes, I'll host this, and
I'll buy another 100-gig drive whenever we fill up the 18-gig drive I've got,
that's swell, but what happens when I get run over by a truck?  What's needed
for this purpose is multi-site storage, regular backup regimen, someone whose
actual job that they make their living from is to take care of it, and the
mechanism society has for doing that is to generate an endowment, pay someone
to manage the endowment, pay somebody to manage the archive.

("Something you want to create a foundation for" doesn't mean "Can't be done."
People do create foundations.  It's just that if we want to be sure this
archive survives the death/disillusionment/finances of any one person, that's
what we do.)

> Thanks for the food for thought, Hanny.

Seconded.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:33:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:35:45 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Where does it go?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C607A60.23071C0D-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
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compuserve.com> <01KDX5CZRGHM9FNNFH-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>



Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote, responding to my response
to Hanny's wonderful ideas:
> > Publish if you will?
> 
> Publish what?  You can build up quite a good library without having a book in
> you.  If you've been composing dances, then, yes, please, publish them, but
> maybe it's better - for longterm availability - to publish piecemeal in CDSS
> News than to self-publish books which require frequent renewed effort to keep
> in print and distribute.

as one of the editors of the Bay Area Country Dancer, our local region's
quarterly newsletter (comes with a BACDS membership, y'all) of _course_
I mean publishing in all its forms. In the interests of longer-term
archiving, perhaps I might emphasize print, given how fast electronic
forms and formats change - ask anyone who started any form of archive on
[your favorite obsolete technology here].

Among the lightbulb jokes and marzipan figures of these very archives,
rant some really good and thoughtful discussions on basic and finer
points of community-building, dance instruction, music-making, and so
on; these are of critical value to me as a dancer in community with dancers.


The impossibility of 'breaking in' as a new caller on the western shores
of CA is a whole another topic worthy of babbling about. It scares me
too, that in the Bay Area our known 'youngster' callers are in their 40s
and have already been doing it for not-a-short-time. It's simpler to
come in as a musician, and that's slow process, too...
What's it like in other dance venues?

hugs,
Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:03:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:01:17 -0600
From: Chrissy Howell <chrissy-AT-
mail.socket.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD in Cape Town?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04220802b8862695d89d-AT-
[134.124.70.109]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Does anyone know of any English Country Dance Groups or Dancers in 
Cape Town, South Africa (or Contra groups in Cape Town or elsewhere 
in South Africa)?? I've looked on the web but have not located a 
group -- although I did find  Scottish Country Dance in Cape Town, 
and a Morris side off in Pretoria.

Alternately, has anyone had any experience with South African Folk 
Dancing (described at 
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/9023/Volkspele/volkspele.html#volk 
) which involves singing and dancing, but looks vaguely ECD-like??

I'm making sabbatical arrangements and it would be comforting to know 
I had some dance options.
Best,
Chrissy Howell
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:21:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: stray ranting in Albany NY
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206042114.58233.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com> wrote:
> Not at all sure what the customers (yes there were customers)
> thought about this.
> 
> Let's see, if I can get a few more going, we could do morpeth!

Get a few customers going and they'll keep comig back just to
dance...

I knew a guy in New Hampshire who worked in a store where they
played Contra dance music all day.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:54:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:54:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206045406.48485.qmail-AT-
web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>  How many American callers does it take to change a light
> bulb?
> 
>  I don't know what you've learned with other bulbs, but here
> we do it this way.

To take it full circle: you'd better get it done before the
musicians decide that the tune has gone on long enough.

"Aren't you done changing that light bulb yet?!!"

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:00:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:00:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206050027.64896.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Trevor Monson wrote:
> > 
> > >From Paul:-
> > >
> > > How many English dancers does it take to change a light
> > > bulb?
> > >
> > > Six. One to change the bulb, and five to say, "I learned
> > this differently."
> > >
> > and how about the six folk singers required to sing about
> how good the old bulb was?
> 
> And the six folk musicians to complain because it's electric.

How many Morris dancers does it take to change a light bulb?

Six, five to lift and one to turn the bulb.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:35:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 00:34:32 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C60C068.5070806-AT-
madrobin.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
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References: <000801c1adc7$56cf2e00$8f822ed4-AT-
michael>

Thanks Michael for the 1711 Spectator quote.   There is a wealth of 
literary references linking  kissing and dancing.  If I may indulge your 
bandwidth, I'll share a few.  Working backward from Jane Austen::

Jane Austen
I am glad that the Wildmans are going to give a ball, and hope you will 
not fail to benefit both yourself and me by laying out a few kisses in 
the purchase of a frank.
        Letters of Jane Austen (London: Bentley, 1884) edited with an 
introduction and critical remarks by Edward, Lord Brabourne; Letters of 
Jane Austen to her sister Cassandra Austen, XXVI –Steventon: Thursday 
(January 8, 1801)

Mrs. Hester Lynch Thrale [Later Mrs. Piozzi] (1776-1809)
On the birthday of our eldest daughter, and that of our friend Dr. 
Johnson, the 17th and the 18th of September, we every year made up a 
little dance and supper, to divert our servants and their friends, 
putting the summer-house into their hands for the two evenings, to fill 
with acquaintance and merriment. Francis and his white wife were 
invited, of course.  She was eminently pretty, and he was jealous, as my 
maids told me.  On the first of these days’ amusements (I know not what 
year) Frank took offence at some attentions paid his Desdemona, and 
walked away next morning to London in wrath.  His master and I driving 
the same road an hour after, overtook him.  “What is the matter, child,” 
says Dr. Johnson, “that you leave Streatham to-day.  ART SICK?”  “He is 
jealous,” whispered I.  “Are you jealous of your wife, you stupid 
blockhead?” cries out his master in another tone.  The fellow hesitated, 
and, “TO BE SURE, SIR, I DON’T QUITE APPROVE, SIR,” was the stammering 
reply.  “Why, what do they DO to her, man?  Do the footmen kiss her?”  
“No, sir, no!  Kiss my WIFE, sir!  I HOPE NOT, sir.”  “Why, what DO they 
do to her, my lad?”  “Why, nothing, sir, I’m sure, sir.”  “Why, then go 
back directly and dance, you dog, do; and let’s hear no more of such 
empty lamentations.” 
        Anecdotes of the Late Samuel Johnson, L.l.d. (London: 1786)

Hudson Ralph Janisch [former Governor of St. Helena]
Everybody was very cheerful all the morning but after dinner somebody 
took it in their heads to lead up a kissing dance, so my ill fortune 
would have it, which although very common upon these occasions and at 
other times, gave Gov. Jenkins so much offence and disturbed him to so 
great a degree that he immediately called for his horse, broke up the 
company, took the young ladies with him and went away in great 
displeasure, and from that moment for several weeks after could not 
endure the sight of Mr. Bazett and Capt. Clarke, though before they both 
stood very high in his favour, yet one of them beside the misfortune of 
losing his favour was otherwise in danger and had like to have paid 
clear for his share of the kisses for he was very near being put under 
arrest for his presumption, and as these gentlemen were my friends I too 
(though not there) had my share of his anger for he never spoke kindly 
to me afterwards.
        Extracts from the St. Helena Records (St. Helena: Benjamin 
Grant, 1885); 1725-1749 [1741]

Dudley Ryder
Thursday, January 5. [1715/6]
I was desired by Mr. Bunkley [a parson], to come and take part in a 
country dance at his house. I did so and had young Mrs. [Miss] Gery for 
my partner.  We were very merry and I danced pretty well upon the whole. 
Our conversation was nothing extraordinary and we had nothing of kissing.
        The Dairy of Dudley Ryder 1715-1716;
        Transcribed from shorthand and Edited by William Matthews (1939);
        Methuen & Co. Ltd. London

Andrew Marvell
When at their Dances End they kiss,
        Miscellaneous Poems; Upon Appleton House, to my Lord Fairfax,  1681

Samuel Pepys
After we had done eating, the ladies went to dance, and among the men we 
had, I was forced to dance, too; and did make an ugly shift.  Mrs. R. 
Allen danced very well, and seems the best humoured woman that ever I 
saw.  About nine o’clock Sir William and my Lady went home, and we 
continued dancing an houre or two, and so broke up very pleasant and 
merry, and so walked home, I leading Mrs. Rebecca, who seemed, I know 
not why, in that and other things, to be desirous of my favors, and 
would in all thing show me respects. Going home, she would needs have me 
sing and [I] did pretty well, and was highly esteemed by them. So to 
Captain Allen’s (where we was last night, and heard him play on the 
harpsichon, and I find him to be a perfect good musician), and there 
having no mind to leave Mrs. Rebecca, I did what with talk and singing 
(her father and I), Mrs. Turner and I staid there till two o’clock in 
the morning, and was most exceeding merry, and I had the opportunity of 
kissing Mrs. Rebecca very often. ["Mrs." then was more akin to our "Ms."]
        Diary of Samuel Pepys, April 10, 1661

Charles II [attributed to]
{The Country Dance.}
{Richard offers to kisse Madge in the dance.}
        The King and Queenes Entertainement at Richmond (Sept. 12. 1636)

William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles, wanton 
compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets, effeminate 
music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which 
savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
        Histriomastix (1632)

Thoinot Arbeau
And there is more to it than this, for dancing is practised to reveal 
whether lovers are in good health and sound of limb, after which they 
are permitted to kiss their mistresses in order that they may touch and 
savour one another, thus to ascertain if they are shapely or emit an 
unpleasant odour as of bad meat. Therefore, from this standpoint, quite 
apart from the many other advantages to be derived from dancing, it 
becomes an essentially in a well ordered society.
        Orchesography (1589)

And, we can't end without . . .
Philip Stubbes
For what clipping, what culling, what kissing and bussing, what 
smooching and slavering one of another, what filthie groping and 
uncleane handling is not practised in those dancings?
        Anatomie of Abuses (1583)

Rich Galloway

    I love no dance so well, as John come kiss me now.
    (Jack Slime, in Thomas Heywood 's "A Woman Killed with Kindness," 1603)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:54:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Shameless Plug - was KIssing Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KDXI1E83UI9FNNFH-AT-
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michael>

With all the discussion of kissing dances, including Rich's excellent
contribution (starting with Jane Austen, a perfect cue) I could not resist
posting an announcement of this event, even though I don't currently have
any kissing dances planned - although you'll never know what will happen in
My Lord Byron's Maggot:


In the mood for flirtatious and rambunctious English country dancing and 
romantic waltzes as Valentine's Day approaches?  Dress up and come to the
Cyprians' Ball this Saturday night!  


               The BAY AREA ENGLISH REGENCY SOCIETY presents

                 The CYPRIANS' BALL, February 9, 2002 at 

                          Royal Hodge Masonic Center
                         651 Roble Avenue, Menlo Park

                  Doors open at 7:30 p.m., Dancing at 8:00
     $20 at the door, $15 in advance -prior to Feb 6 or at Feb 8 dance party
         $2 discount for members of GBACG, BACDS, SFCOP or COYOTE



Aphrodite, goddess of love, was associated with the Isle of Cyprus, and so
she was known as the Cyprian.  In Georgian England - c. 1790s - ladies who
made their livings by love were known as Cyprians.  [Courtesans, more or
less.])  It seems that the Cyprians had the charming custom of holding
balls where they could shop around for new, um, friends.  Their behavior
might or not be demure.  (This was the era when Harriette Wilson reportedly
had herself placed unclad in a (very large) piecrust and served to the 
Prince Regent at a formal dinner.)  See the BAERS webpage, 
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1815 and follow the link to the
Cyprians' Ball for more information.  It's not the sort of event Jane
Austen would attend, but it's still conducted with  style and class.


The Divertimento Dance Orchestra will provide live music, some by classical
composers.  Alan Winston (a frequent caller at BACDS English dances, and "Knave
of Hearts" of the 2000 Playford Ball) will teach the country dances of the late
1700s  and early 1800s.  There will be both normal waltzes and waltzes with
figures.  The popular "Congress of Vienna" will open and close the ball. No
partner required, although many couples attend; it was the custom of the period
not to dance every dance with the same person.

Location: Royal Hodge Masonic Center, 651 Roble Avenue, Menlo Park
(Off El Camino, same block as the Safeway, five blocks from the train station)

Doors open at 7:30 - First waltz at 8:00.  Scandalous period dress
admired but not required; as we usually say, we can't in good
conscience recommend damping your muslins in February.  Festive modern 
dress is entirely welcome.  $20/door; $2 discount for BACDS, GBACG,
CDSS or COYOTE members.


To preview the dances, or to check us out even if you're not coming
to the ball, come to our Palo Alto dance party on Friday night, the 11th.
Doors open 7:45, dances start at 8:00 or earlier if there are enough
people.  St. Mark's Episcopal Church, 600 Colorado Avenue (just off 
Middlefield; turn west at the Coldwell-Banker office, then left into the St.
Mark's lot after a block and a half.)  $5.  Dress for comfort.  If you want
to sign up for the Ball at the dance party, we'll give you the advance
rate of $15.  

For more on the dance parties,

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1815/fridays.html


For more info in general, email baers-AT-
geocities.com, or call us at 
650/365-2913.


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 06:36:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:36:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202060932070.9902-100000-AT-
rtype.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Rich Galloway wrote:

	[snip]

> Charles II [attributed to]
> {The Country Dance.}
> {Richard offers to kisse Madge in the dance.}
>         The King and Queenes Entertainement at Richmond (Sept. 12. 1636)

Charles II would have been about 6 years old in 1636.  Am I
misunderstanding this?  Or is this really believed to be his report on the
household activities of the time?

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 07:14:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 07:14:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Authority issues -- more light bulbs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206151451.78713.qmail-AT-
web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote: 
> How many Morris dancers does it take to change a light
> bulb?
> 
> Six, five to lift and one to turn the bulb.

Obviously they were dancing Brighton Camp.

L.



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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 07:52:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:52:13 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problem with musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <10.1986961a.2992ab2d-AT-
aol.com>
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Sorry for the delay, just catching up with mail from when I was away.

Linda asked-

 >A different question for this group: How long is it appropriate
 >to run a particular dance?

Until the musicians politely suggest it's time to stop.       ;-)

BTW, I completely agree with Allen Dodson's response to the original
question. As my father used to say when I was learning to drive: "If
someone passes you on the right, he's at fault. If a second person
passes you on the right, you're both at fault."

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:30:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:30:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020206233023.37976.qmail-AT-
web13606.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:

> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles,
> wanton 
> compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets,
> effeminate 
> music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which 
> savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
>         Histriomastix (1632)


Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
authenticity in our dancing.

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:26:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 17:28:13 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C61D82D.774D494E-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Barbara Ruth wrote:
> 
> --- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:
> 
> > William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> > Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles,
> > wanton
> > compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets,
> > effeminate
> > music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which
> > savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >         Histriomastix (1632)
> 
> Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
> authenticity in our dancing.

I don't know.  Would I have to learn to play effeminately?

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 19:08:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 22:07:52 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C61EF88.7000100-AT-
madrobin.net>
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rtype.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

Which is one reason I inserted the "attributed to."  I apologize for 
inadvertently leaving off the rest of the citation.  It should read:

    The King and Queenes Entertainement at Richmond (Sept. 12. 1636);
    "Printed by Leonard Lichfield, 1636"
    from the Bang and Brotanek edition [Louvain and Lepzig, 1903]
    (You read the text at http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~rbear/ent.htm)

I think you'll see why I harbor a few suspicions about its authenticity. 
 But then, the point isn't so much who wrote it or when, but that 
whoever it was associated kissing with dancing, at least as he or she 
imagined it to be in 1636. Sorry if I was misleading.

Rich

Eric Arnold wrote:

>
>On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Rich Galloway wrote:
>
>	[snip]
>
>>Charles II [attributed to]
>>{The Country Dance.}
>>{Richard offers to kisse Madge in the dance.}
>>        The King and Queenes Entertainement at Richmond (Sept. 12. 1636)
>>
>Charles II would have been about 6 years old in 1636.  Am I
>misunderstanding this?  Or is this really believed to be his report on the household activities of the time?
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 00:29:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 00:29:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kissing Dances (with correction!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020207082906.33628.qmail-AT-
web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:
>  But then, the point isn't so much who wrote it or when, but
> that whoever it was associated kissing with dancing...

There was a guy in Hartford that was of that same persuasion. He
used to kiss the women on the cheek (or neck if he could get to
it) while swinging. With all the complaints that I heard, I
always wondered why none of them ever hauled off and clobbered
him for doing it.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 00:47:59 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:00:18 +1100
From: Aylwen Garden <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Subject: To Colin Hume
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi! John is trying to email Colin Hume, but every message is bouncing back. Could Colin email us off-list, please?
Warmest Regards,
Aylwen Garden
(for John Garden)
garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au


--Boundary_(ID_khgz22Nl5pwbww1Xj7n3ng)
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi! John is trying to email Colin Hume, but every 
message is bouncing back. Could Colin email us off-list, please?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Warmest Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Aylwen Garden</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>(for John Garden)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A 
href="mailto:garden-AT-
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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 05:15:27 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 08:16:19 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020207.081620.-1862827.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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One challenge of knowing what materials one ought to send to the UNH
Archives or a similar repository versus just giving or throwing the
materials away is that the UNH Archives (for example) does not readily
publish what they've already got.  So if I have a complete set of CDSS
Newses from 1973-2050 and they don't want them, I might be better off
giving them to my local library or to a good friend.  On the other hand,
if I've got a second or even a third copy of some little pamphlet
privately published in only 200 copies back in Ought One, then the
Archives ought to be champing at the bit to get it.  It doesn't seem fair
that my executor would have to make these decisions--I think that some
responsibility rests on the various Libraries and Archives themselves to
say what they've got and what they want.  My mother is currently going
through 35 years of Gourmet magazines since no one wants them & clipping
a few recipes & throwing the rest away.  We both feel that this is a
Sacrilege, but there is nothing else to do.

So my challenge is to UNH--in particular as the CDSS repository--as well
as other libraries to make it clear what they've already got and what
they want.

Allison

(Currently NOT saving back copies of Gourmet, Martha Stewart Living and a
variety of other magazines, but will soon have a complete collection of
CDSS Newses and numerous issues of EFDSS not to mention newletters and
magazines from the Jane Austen, Angela Thirkell and Elsie J. Oxenham
societies--the last of which at least should actually be a North American
Rarity and for which UNH might possibly pay me....oh well, dream on!)

P.S.  This issue of inheritance has come up recently in the EJO society,
as many elderly members have books that are now quite rare--hundreds or
even thousands of dollars--and are unsure whether to try to sell them at
(rather inflated) market prices, offer them to fellow members at
(reasonably fair) non-market prices, donate them to a library (which may
not at all treat them the way you wish--perhaps even put them on the "For
Sale, 25P" table) or burn them on their funeral pyre like the Vikings
did.  

There is no one right answer, though several members seem to have found
solace in distributing their books prior to their decease in the manner
that they preferred--that is, gift or non-market price to equal members.
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:09:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:09:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202071005500.121652-100000-AT-
gnu.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, Allison M Thompson wrote:

> One challenge of knowing what materials one ought to send to the UNH
> Archives or a similar repository versus just giving or throwing the
> materials away is that the UNH Archives (for example) does not readily
> publish what they've already got.

You can get a complete list from them either by writing them or looking it
up on the web.
> I think that some
> responsibility rests on the various Libraries and Archives themselves to
> say what they've got and what they want.

How do they know what they want if they don't know what you've got?


I am in correspondencd with them right now to see what I can give them
this year and the next and what will be labeled in my collection to go to
them when I'm not around.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:36:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:35:59 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Archives
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <11046339-AT-
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>One challenge of knowing what materials one ought to send to the UNH Archives
or a similar repository versus just giving or throwing the materials away is
that the UNH Archives (for example) does not readily publish what they've
already got.

As a resident of my adopted state of New Hampshire (30 years now, which
qualifies me still as a newcomer) and with all due respect, I rise to defend the
UNH archives.

When I was doing research for my Bob McQuillen video, I knew that the archives
would be a useful source of information, since they house the Ralph Page
collection. I was able to get a good sense of the scope of that particular
collection on-line:

http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/pagemc.htm

Thus, for example, if I wanted a photograph of Ralph Page dancing Morris-- which
didn't really fit into my project but would be fun to see--I knew from the
listing of photographs

http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/pagemc.htm#photos

that Item e.5 in Box 33 included this:

1949. Morris Dancing in the barn at the Bell Estate in Peterboro, NH. Includes
Ralph Page and Gene Gowing

I contacted Roland Goodbody who is one of the Special Collections librarians,
told him what I was looking for, and set up a date. When I appeared, he had a
room reserved for me with all the relevant papers there, and even had videotapes
cued to an appropriate place. As I did my own research and found people who had
what I thought were interesting and possibly valuable collections of
dance-related photographs and papers, I'd mention to the individuals that they
might consider making provisions to see that this material would end up in a
good home. The most common response was, "Do you really think that anyone would
be interested in this?" to which I'd reply with a hearty "Yes!"

I passed along contact information to the library and described the goods as
best as I could, and I know of at least two cases where the library contacted
the individual and expressed interest.

> So my challenge is to UNH--in particular as the CDSS repository--as well as
other libraries to make it clear what they've already got and what they want.

I'm neither a librarian not an archivist, but it does seem that asking a public
library with limited resources (this is, after all, the frugal state of New
Hampshire, not the Getty) to publicize what they want is asking a lot. I'd think
an easier route might simply be to contact the library to say, "Here's what I
have. Are you be interested?"

I agree that they will not want to house 38 complete sets of the CDSS
Newsletter, but there may well be individual items that would make a great fit
with their existing collection. Given that they house (among others) the Ralph
Page and Ted Sannella collections already, I think they're the logical place for
any contra dance material; given that they house the CDSS Archives, I think
they'd be a logical place for ECD material as well.

I yield the floor.

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:38:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:36:39 -0600
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B887FB27.580D%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
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There was a little horror story here recently in Columbia, Missouri,
published in the local newspaper, about a chap who gave a complete set of
extremely rare college humor magazines to the University of Missouri. They
were magazines produced at the University of Missouri over a period of some
decades, including the years when Mort Walker (of Hi & Lois and Beetle
Bailey fame) was here as an undergraduate and making up cartoons even then.
The University received these magazines with all due pomp and circumstance,
and then mislaid them. They are nowhere to be found, nor any trace of what
was done with them. The University Library admitted under questioning that
it often sold things it really didn't want or need or have any particular
interest in.

One of the local Walmart people (Sam Walton was from here, and his daughters
live here), recently gave the University 25 milliion towards a new
basketball arena. The gift came with an 11 page contract binding the
University ever so tightly to provide the donor and his family with a
special luxury box for viewing the games, probably in as close to
perpetuitity as the Rule Against Perpetuities allows. This was in reaction
to a similar gift made by another wealthy donor to the University of
Arkansas, which no sooner had gotten his money than it forgot who he was.

Universities, and Colleges for that matter, seemingly have memories only for
those things that the people running them care to remember. They are sloppy
procedurally. If there is an exception, it is Harvard, which seems sometimes
(not always) to make a fetish of keeping things long after their practical
significance has waned. As a result, Harvard has a very nice collection of
old scientific instruments from the 1800s.

The issue is not an easy one, and there have been no adequate suggestions
that I have heard of. I heard Dick Spottswood, fifteen or twenty years ago,
complaining that he had no place to leave his enormous collection of 78
r.p.m. and vinyl recordings of East European folk music, a lot of which was
recorded in the U.S. His collection is not limited to East European music,
by the way, but is known for that. Whether he solved this problem or not I
do not know. Trebor Tichenor, who has a huge collection of old piano rolls
in his home in South St. Louis, mainly of early ragtime, is said to intend
leaving them to Washington University in St. Louis. I shudder to think what
that careless place (from which I hold a degree) will do with them, or how
it will store them. They need good treatment, proper temperature and
humidity and fire protection, and they need to be accessible. Doubtless
there are other examples. It is too bad that there can't be one place which
would have as its single goal, the task of keeping these things safely and
making them accessible.

J. Shewmaker
8820 Kari Lane
Columbia, MO 65201
573-442-4119






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 07:41:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:41:39 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: archives and libraries
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ag5153-AT-
wayne.edu
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F48BK1CRwFRftQ0000188e-AT-
hotmail.com>
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I speak as a librarian who also worked as an archivist for some years, and 
as an historian who has actually done research in archives and rare books 
collections. So I have several angles on this.

First of all, I don't know what agreement CDSS has with the UNH, or what 
policies and practices the UNH special collections dept may have about 
collecting related materials. I don't even know whether CDSS has a liaison 
person with UNH for its materials. Or whether there is an ongoing agreement 
about future materials.

I have considerable sympathy for libraries/ archives which find themselves 
faced with real or potential donors' priceless collections. No one knows 
what will really prove "valuable" to the future. For example, after the 
novelist John Galsworthy died in 1933, his publications were fetching the 
highest prices in the book trade; by the time I entered the field (1978), 
the same publications were rock-bottom and my first boss was using him as an 
example of how the market can change. Archives and libraries have to have 
the right to accept material, or not, and to have control over the materials 
they accept; including trashing the stuff. Otherwise you get swamped with 
stuff that, in your opinion, you don't want. (You the library/ archive.)

I'm skeptical about stories like "Aunt Betty June's copy of Ralph Page's 
books sold for squazillions of dollars on ebay." I suppose it can happen. 
There's always someone with squazillions to burn. But so what? That's not 
material to questions of preserving the legacy of ECD/ Contra/ etc., which I 
presume is the real topic here.

With books and such, "value" is a variable concept. It can mean either 
monetary, or some other quality -- for example, there are books on sword 
dance history published in the 1930s in Europe for which I would personally 
pay a lot of money, because of my research and related interests. Maybe 2 
other people in the world would also be interested. Something may be rare, 
in the sense that there are very few examples, and also basically valueless. 
That's a common misconception, I mean that rare = valuable. The different 
means of "value" should be kept in mind when dealing with books and the 
like.

Then there is the question of books' artifact value vs content value. I.e., 
I'm tickled pink that Trevor Stone, Ivor Allsop, and Tony Barrand all 
autographed (at my request) my copy of the Allsop/ Barrand book of longsword 
dances. That gives it a certain artifact value. But it doesn't say anything 
about the content. Nor does it do anything about the book's monetary value, 
except to some lone lunatic. (Like me.)

I am in complete agreement with CDSS's decision, some years ago, to give its 
archives to UNH. Leave it to the professionals. I am also in complete 
agreement with UNH's professionals being able to decide how to manage their 
own collections -- I'm assuming, you'll note, that UNH now owns the 
collection; that it's not some sort of deposit which CDSS still owns. 
(Someday I'll tell the story about Allen Ginsberg's deposited Czechoslovak 
sneakers.)

If there is significant interest in investigating the questions related to 
All You Callers and Musicians Out There who have materials which may be 
worth preserving... Maybe the CDSS Brain Trust and Collective High Command 
and Mucky Mucks should convene a task force. In consultation with someone 
from UNH would be a good idea.

As for digitalization of such materials, that's very nice. Not cheap and 
easy, but nice. Someone should do something about it.

Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 08:37:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:36:26 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b8885cfc4a2a-AT-
[140.186.55.180]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <B887FB27.580D%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>

>The issue is not an easy one, and there have been no adequate suggestions
>that I have heard of. I heard Dick Spottswood, fifteen or twenty years ago,
>complaining that he had no place to leave his enormous collection of 78
>r.p.m. and vinyl recordings of East European folk music, a lot of which was
>recorded in the U.S.  Trebor Tichenor, who has a huge collection of 
>old piano rolls
in his home in South St. Louis, mainly of early ragtime,

These sorts of things need to go to the Smithsonian.  I believe 
that's where the real interest is in old American piano rolls and 
such.  And, despite the Shrub's intention to cut the budgets for such 
institutions, that's where the proper storage conditions are.

-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:23:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:28:05 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002e01c1affc$ce153400$e02c4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <B887FB27.580D%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>

----- Original Message -----
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>

<<The issue is not an easy one, and there have been no adequate suggestions
that I have heard of. I heard Dick Spottswood, fifteen or twenty years ago,
complaining that he had no place to leave his enormous collection of 78
r.p.m. and vinyl recordings of East European folk music, a lot of which was
recorded in the U.S. His collection is not limited to East European music,
by the way, but is known for that. Whether he solved this problem or not I
do not know. >>

For material related in some way to folk music, particularly recordings,
there is the Sing Out! Resource Center (SORC) in Pennsylvania; they've been
the recipient of quite a few bequests.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:36:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:36:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Archives
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020207173605.40227.qmail-AT-
web13803.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- David Millstone <David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net> wrote:
> ....I'd mention to the individuals that they might
> consider making provisions to see that this material
> would end up in a good home. The most common response
> was, "Do you really think that anyone would be interested
> in this?" to which I'd reply with a hearty "Yes!"

A tangental, off-topic anecdote to this:
My husband Dennis spends a great deal of time involved in
Irish geneology (www.tiara.ie) and has researched his
family extensively. A few years ago in the National
Archives in Belfast, he found letters written back home by
his great grandmother and her brother from Arlington MA and
by another brother who emigrated to Australia. After
someone had died, whoever cleaned her house out gave these
letters to the Archive rather than chucking them. He's
still excited about finding them.

You can never tell what might come in handy to somebody.

Lyrl


 

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:59:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:58:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <15e.8631933.29941a60-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Barbara speculated

>--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:
>
>> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
>> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles,
>> wanton 
>> compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets,
>> effeminate 
>> music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which 
>> savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
>>         Histriomastix (1632)
>
>
>Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
>authenticity in our dancing.

I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.  

Nilos
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:02:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:02:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020207190204.46972.qmail-AT-
web13601.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Barbara speculated
> 
> >--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:
> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles,
> >> wanton 
> >> compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets,
> >> effeminate 
> >> music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of
> which savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
> >
> >
> >Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
> >authenticity in our dancing.


> I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.  
> 
> Nilos

I'm considering the Lust-Provoking Attire end of things myself.
(Hey, any excuse for buying more dance dresses...)
Barbara

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:31:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:31:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202071345500.3905-100000-AT-
rtype.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:

> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous smiles,
> wanton
> compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous songs and sonnets,
> effeminate
> music, lust-provoking attire, ridiculous love pranks, all of which
> savour only of sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
>         Histriomastix (1632)

Several thoughts:

1)  Don't suppose that Hester was descended from this dour gentleman, by
any chance?  Might have reacted against such severe ideas...  or perhaps
Hawthorne was familiar with Mr. Prynne's writings, and selected Hester's
surname accordingly?

2) Pretty heady stuff for someone just a bit over 30!

3) It isn't the unchaste kisses that he should be worrying about -- it's
the chased ones!

4) "Effeminate" is used here in a way that appears to disparage the music.
I wonder if folks today would agree whether or not "effeminate" is
appropriate to the description of ECD music as we know it, and whether, to
the extent that it is, we would consider that a positive or a negative (or
perhaps a neutral) quality.  Anyone care to comment?

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:25:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:25:04 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C62FEC0.E4EF7B8C-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202071345500.3905-100000-AT-
rtype.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

Remember that William Prynne had an ear docked for being a common scold.
Moreover, since he didn't stop, the other ear was also docked.

--
Albert Blank

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:40:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:40:27 -0800
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020207224027.4999.cpmta-AT-
c007.snv.cp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I doubt that worked either.  Science is still looking for a cure for the common scold.

Rich

On Thu, 07 February 2002, Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore wrote:

> 
> Remember that William Prynne had an ear docked for being a common scold.
> Moreover, since he didn't stop, the other ear was also docked.
> 
> --
> Albert Blank
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:23:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:21:03 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD in Cape Town?
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200202071923_MC3-F13E-C3B0-AT-
compuserve.com>
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Hi Chrissy -
I was in Cape Town a year ago and didn't find any ECD either. There are
several SCD groups, though, and I had fun dancing with them.
My nicest experience was with a Volkspelegroup, though. I searched for
dance - and that's NOT how one finds them. The Afrikaaner are rather
emphatic in not calling it folk dance. I 'not danced' twice with the group
in Cape Town, the only 'non dance' I knew was "Tant Hessie" which I had
learned in the USA as part of international folk dancing. When they knew I
was visiting, they wore their performance garb in my honor. They are not
permitted to do any other kind of dancing in their costume. Language du
jour was Afrikaans, which I understand - sort of. Some of the folks don't
even speak English - or don't let on if they do. They were amused and
pleased that I was so interested in their activity, the leader had invited
me to his house beforehand and had shown me videos of national events. Very
impressive! Upon my return visit (half a year after the first one), they
gave me a signed book with all their folkspele...
Now, for the activity.
I would NOT compare it to ECD. All dances are partner dances, more
specifically mixers - usually two or three verses long and everyone sings
heartily. There was a piano, we could have lived without it. An Afrikaaner
was in Sweden in 1912 and saw the students dancing. Upon his return home he
introduced the activity there - wo whatever history is there, is VERY
young. The tunes come from all over, I recognized a number of German and
Austrian folk songs. And new volkspele are added periodically. They number
127 by now. The figures are very simple...
If invited, you will have no problem 'dancing' right along.
I am reluctant to put the email address of the leader into public view -
they are working on a website, I'm told.
Good luck! I really enjoyed my time down there!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:37:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:42:54 -0500
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone??? / Archives  (long)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C631F0E.5060909-AT-
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References: <B887FB27.580D%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org> <a05100300b8885cfc4a2a-AT-
[140.186.55.180]>

Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

>> The issue is not an easy one, and there have been no adequate 
>> suggestions
>> that I have heard of. I heard Dick Spottswood, fifteen or twenty 
>> years ago,
>> complaining that he had no place to leave his enormous collection of 78
>> r.p.m. and vinyl recordings of East European folk music, a lot of 
>> which was
>> recorded in the U.S.  Trebor Tichenor, who has a huge collection of 
>> old piano rolls
>
> in his home in South St. Louis, mainly of early ragtime,
>
> These sorts of things need to go to the Smithsonian.  I believe that's 
> where the real interest is in old American piano rolls and such.  And, 
> despite the Shrub's intention to cut the budgets for such 
> institutions, that's where the proper storage conditions are. 

Unfortunately I've been up to my ears in report-writing and root canals, 
but the earlier and now Emily's post on archives make me eager to jump 
in here.  I can speak as an archivist at the Smithsonian's Center for 
Folklife and Cultural Heritage, which would be more than happy for such 
a collection of East European music.  The other archivist, Jeff Place, 
knows Dick Spottswood so I don't know why it would be an issue, although 
some people may think we only collect Folkways recordings, which isn't 
true. (See our website at: 
 http://www.folklife.si.edu/CFCH/aboutarc.htm).  The other very 
appropriate place for such recordings is the Library of Congress 
Recorded Sound Division, although the access to their material is set up 
entirely differently from ours, and is more cumbersome.  The piano rolls 
would best fit into the collections at the Archives Center at the 
National Museum of American History.

The Smithsonian's Folklife Archive is one of the two locations where the 
footage and other papers of the English Country Dance Video 
Documentation Project will be housed for public access; copies of the 
materials will be going to the CDSS collections at the University of New 
Hampshire.  I can only second David Millstone's hearty endorsement of 
Roland Goodbody's helpfulness as a librarian in the UNH Special 
Collections department.  Moreover, he is English and a morris dancer, so 
he's really interested in the CDSS material.  

Making collections accessible to the public is not an easy task. 
 Cataloging and digitization of photos, transcripts, manuscripts, audio, 
and other cultural "assets" is very labor intensive.  I double as an 
archivist and a webmaster, and recognize that there's no way I can do 
everything I'd like to do in making our collections more immediately 
accessible, nor do I have the luxury of making complex websites about 
collections. Sometimes researchers help, in effect, catalog contents for 
us when they come to look at manuscripts or photos or whatever; they let 
us know what's there.  My plans for the ECD collection is to make a 
catalog record in the Smithsonian's online catalog, and then point to a 
finding aid for that collection.  I'm not there yet, and the collection 
is still expanding.  

This is a great lead in to say that Danny Walkowitz and I will be trying 
to locate all kinds of  mementos , ephemera, photos, and home movies 
from those who wish to share them.  Part of the purpose is to consider 
them for use in a film about ECD in the U.S., but also to gather the 
resources in one place.  In most cases we could make 
copies/scans/photocopies and return them.  These would be a valuable 
resource to future dancers and researchers.

This is a fascinating discussion.  I'm glad you raised it, Hanny.

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 02:14:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:13:04 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Subject: Test
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003e01c1b089$32bdeb40$dc407ad5-AT-
michael>
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From Michael Barraclough - please ignore


---
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 08:19:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:19:18 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: archives and libraries
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F41a4mdcUTkTmz00004848-AT-
hotmail.com>
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This is moving pretty far off topic and I hope no one minds, too much. If so 
I apologize.

Yes, universities tend to the disorganized and ramshackle. Yes, they can be 
oblivious and ungrateful. So can university libraries -- which however do 
(or should) tell donors of materials, going in, that they reserve the right 
to dispose of gifts that are not adjudged to be suitable for their 
collections. Sometimes they make mistakes in evaluation, as I suspect all of 
us do.

But allow me to note that no one has yet had anything critical to say about 
the UNH stewardship of the Ralph Page material or the CDSS materials which 
they hold. To the contrary. Criticisms voiced on this list of libraries and 
universities have been of other institutions, and thus have not been 
immediately material to the specific issue of preserving ECD and other 
related materials. Because several Universities are cited as having done 
something incompetent or reprehensible does not mean that UNH Library should 
be suspected of incompetence or reprehensible behavior.

I believe that CDSS did exactly the right thing in transferring its 
collections to UNH. (Though I'll admit I'm not familiar with specifics of 
the agreement -- or even generalities.) Sounds like UNH is doing all that 
could possibly be done in arranging/ describing (cataloging) the 
collections, making information available about them, and making them 
available to researchers. If UNH wants to do a little fund raising to 
further these efforts, I'll gladly take part, including sending money.

But in the interest of full disclosure, let me note that I hold American 
Library Association membership card # 60754.

Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288


_________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 08:20:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:20:28 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: archives and libraries
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ag5153-AT-
wayne.edu
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F582VqFnW0kKIB00004fb6-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This is moving pretty far off topic and I hope no one minds, too much. If so 
I apologize.

Yes, universities tend to the disorganized and ramshackle. Yes, they can be 
oblivious and ungrateful. So can university libraries -- which however do 
(or should) tell donors of materials, going in, that they reserve the right 
to dispose of gifts that are not adjudged to be suitable for their 
collections. Sometimes they make mistakes in evaluation, as I suspect all of 
us do.

But allow me to note that no one has yet had anything critical to say about 
the UNH stewardship of the Ralph Page material or the CDSS materials which 
they hold. To the contrary. Criticisms voiced on this list of libraries and 
universities have been of other institutions, and thus have not been 
immediately material to the specific issue of preserving ECD and other 
related materials. Because several Universities are cited as having done 
something incompetent or reprehensible does not mean that UNH Library should 
be suspected of incompetence or reprehensible behavior.

I believe that CDSS did exactly the right thing in transferring its 
collections to UNH. (Though I'll admit I'm not familiar with specifics of 
the agreement -- or even generalities.) Sounds like UNH is doing all that 
could possibly be done in arranging/ describing (cataloging) the 
collections, making information available about them, and making them 
available to researchers. If UNH wants to do a little fund raising to 
further these efforts, I'll gladly take part, including sending money.

But in the interest of full disclosure, let me note that I hold American 
Library Association membership card # 60754.

Steve Corrsin
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel 248-661-6283
fax 248-661-6288




_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:37:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:37:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020208183725.73784.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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-- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Barbara speculated
> >--- Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net> wrote:
> >
> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
> >
> >Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
> >authenticity in our dancing.
> 
> I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.  

And I'm all for the Savoring of Sensuality.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:59:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 13:04:07 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1119
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003d01c1b0d3$633fd400$be344b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20020208183725.73784.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>

> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
> >
> >Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
> >authenticity in our dancing.
> 
> I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.  

<<And I'm all for the Savoring of Sensuality.>>

I'll take Raging Fleshly Lusts please, to go.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:00:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:00:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Archives
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020208190043.17550.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Some time before he died, our father contacted someone about a
collection of professional journals (he was in Meteorology and
Climatology) as well as the Journal of the American Geophysical
Union of which he was a memeber for fity years. Two of the
publications he told me were subscriptions from Volume I, Number
1 sometime in the fourties until he retired from the Government
in 1972. The organization he contacted wrote back that they had
no use for the items, but gave him an address of an organization
that specializes in putting collections together with libraries
and research centers that would use them. I'll be darned if I've
ever been able to find that letter among all his "stuff",
although I know it existed because I saw it when he got it.

I know I haven't kept the collection very well as the boxes are
sitting in my basement.

Andy


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Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:21:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:21:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020208192143.83458.qmail-AT-
web20006.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> P.S.  This issue of inheritance has come up recently in the
> EJO society, as many elderly members have books that are now
> quite rare--hundreds or even thousands of dollars--and are
> unsure whether to try to sell them at (rather inflated) market
> prices, offer them to fellow members at (reasonably fair)
> non-market prices, donate them to a library (which may not at
> all treat them the way you wish--perhaps even put them on the
> "For Sale, 25P" table) or burn them on their funeral pyre like
> the Vikings did.  

After I moved to Oregon I helped my father build a 10'x16'
building that was his "new doghouse". It had mostly floor to
ceiling shelves on all four walls except where the file cabinets
were located. (One long wall of shelves was 10' high.) He filled
it with books from various places he had books stacked around
the house and when the room was full he had barely touched the
shelves of the "old doghouse", which was a room behind the
workshop.

My father went through his books several times the last couple
years of his life and took large quantities to the libraries in
Banks and Forest Grove for their annual book sales, which
support the libraries. After his death, many of the remaining
books were sold to a book dealer for not very much money. (He
had to be able to make his profit from them.) Whatever the
dealer didn't want I took to the library. One of the last times
that I took a load of books to them, one of the librarians told
me that many of my father's books were put into circulation
because they were in excellent condition.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:17:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:17:06 -0600
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: archives and libraries
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ag5153-AT-
wayne.edu
Message-ID: <B889B88E.5858%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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The question is not what UNH has done so far, that may all be hunky dory and
jes' fine. 

The questions are, as I understand them, (1) whether UNH is continuing as a
good place to donate material which may be additions to the CDSS/Ralph Page
collections, and (2) how to keep the UNH library from slipping, at some
unspecified time in the future, into management practices which we, or our
successors in interest, might then deplore.

The answer to the second question is, in part, I think, the use and
attention that we and others give the collections. If a collection is
heavily used, and if there is regular contact between users and librarians,
then, it seem logical, that the librarians, being ruled by the usual
concerns of people, will perceive the collections as valuable and useful and
want to do a continuing good job of maintaining them and even increasing
their utility and scope. If the library might need assistance in this
regard, as by way of funds for maintenance or additions to the collection,
then it might be made aware, if it hasn't been already (and it may well have
been), that a real constituency, widely dispersed but no less real for being
dispersed, exists to which it could appeal for help through already existing
organized sources, such as the CDSS.

The fact that such help might be volunteered, would also tend to make it
appear to the librarians that the collections are deemed valuable by others,
and should therefore be deemed valuable by them. We can assume, for the
purposes of argument, that librarians at UNH have no independent knowledge
of American or English folk dances or music, and therefore have to rely on
what others tell them is useful to have and to hold. This may or may not
reflect reality now or in the future, but is still a useful operating
assumption, until proven otherwise.

As to the first question, whether the UNH library wants more stuff, and if
so, then what, would depend on the relative importance that that library
gives to these collections as against all its other priorities, of which
maintaining a collection of folk dance and music material has got to be a
miniscule part. Simply put, UNH may or may not have the shelf space.
Libraries are all finite resources. One has to ask.

Shooz

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:36:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:37:36 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Completely off-topic request: Fresh Air Weekend recording
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Morris List <MORRIS-AT-
LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C647D60.A5E46A91-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <B889B88E.5858%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>

My sincere apologies for the misuse of these mailing lists; this is just
the quickest way I know to broadcast a request quickly to remote corners of
the country.  

If any of you happen to live where there's an NPR station that broadcasts
"Fresh Air Weekend," I will trade one brand-new, shrink-wrapped CD copy of
"Swinging on the Gate," a rather nice collection recordings of various
bands that play contra and ECD dance music for Bay Area Country Dance
Society dances, for a tape of Terry Gross's interview of Gene Simmons,
which apparently they're going to re-run on this weekend's show.  None of
my local NPR stations carry the weekend version.  The Gene Simmons
interview was, well, let's just say that "remarkable" doesn't even begin to
cover it.

Drop me a line if you can tape it for me; I don't want to be on the hook
for a gazillion CDs.  But I'd really love it if someone would help me out
with this.   

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:43:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 17:40:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Completely off-topic request: Fresh Air Weekend recording
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KE1G4T0TR49FTYVN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <B889B88E.5858%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>

Jon wrote:

> My sincere apologies for the misuse of these mailing lists; this is just
> the quickest way I know to broadcast a request quickly to remote corners of
> the country.

> If any of you happen to live where there's an NPR station that broadcasts
> "Fresh Air Weekend," I will trade one brand-new, shrink-wrapped CD copy of
> "Swinging on the Gate," a rather nice collection recordings of various
> bands that play contra and ECD dance music for Bay Area Country Dance
> Society dances, for a tape of Terry Gross's interview of Gene Simmons,
> which apparently they're going to re-run on this weekend's show.  

Jon himself plays some tasty ECD music on this album, which I recommend highly.
(There, back on topic.  What a relief.)


>None of
> my local NPR stations carry the weekend version.  The Gene Simmons
> interview was, well, let's just say that "remarkable" doesn't even begin to
> cover it.

Just to forestall everyone else from making this suggestion: This interview
(originally from 1997) is *not* available at the NPR website; there's a note
that Gene Simmons denied permission for them to carry audio on the website or
to sell tapes or transcripts.


> Drop me a line if you can tape it for me; I don't want to be on the hook
> for a gazillion CDs.  But I'd really love it if someone would help me out
> with this.

That's "Drop Jon a line", not "Post to the ECD list."  Jon, when you close a
deal with somebody, post that to the list or write back to everybody who wrote
you.  (Not that you need netiquette advice; I'm playing to the audience here.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:02:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 18:03:59 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely off-topic request: Fresh Air Weekend recording
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C64838F.80CECDA-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <B889B88E.5858%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org> <01KE1G4T0TR49FTYVN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> That's "Drop Jon a line", not "Post to the ECD list."  Jon, when you close a
> deal with somebody, post that to the list or write back to everybody who wrote
> you.  (Not that you need netiquette advice; I'm playing to the audience here.)

The lovely and talented Nick Cuccia has drawn my attention to a bootleg MP3
copy of the interview available on the web, so I'll just cancel the offer
right now.  Thanks, Nick.  I'll respect Mr. Simmons's wishes to the extent
of not publicizing the URL, but, having heard the interview, my respect for
Mr. Simmons is sufficiently eroded that I'd probably pass it on to anyone
who asked for it privately.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 08:05:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:05:37 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NY Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F47R9Odutox7nyeKzGZ0000034b-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Country Dance*New York is pleased to invite you to its 19th Annual Playford 
Ball.

Callers:  Sharon Green and Gene Murrow
Music:    Peter Barnes, Earl Gaddis, Chris Rua
Date:     Saturday, April 13, 2002.
Time:     8pm - midnight
Place:    Congregation Beth Elohim Temple House, Park Slope, Brooklyn.

There will be an afternoon walkthrough from 3-5pm with music by Leah Barkan.

CD*NY will also host a contradance led by Scott Higgs on Friday evening 
April 12.

For detailed information and a registration form, please visit our website: 
www.cdny.org.

Looking forward to seeing y'all soon in New York!

--Orly Krasner (last year's ball chair) on behalf of
--Karen Geer (this year's ball chair)






_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:01:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 12:01:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <17d.34be2be.2996afce-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Paul said

>> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
>> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
>> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
>> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
>> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
>> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
>> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
>> >
>> >Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
>> >authenticity in our dancing.
>> 
>> I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.  
>
><<And I'm all for the Savoring of Sensuality.>>
>
>I'll take Raging Fleshly Lusts please, to go.

Right, Paul.  You want fries with that?

Nilos
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:35:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 12:34:43 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Princess Margaret - a suggestion
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c1b190$10bccc20$9c02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
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The sad news of the death of Great Britain's Princess Margaret has reached
most of us by now. She was the president of the English Folk Dance and Song
Society, and was quite supportive in this role prior to her health
complications in recent years.

In honor and recognition of the life of Princess Margaret and her
contributions to English folk dance, it would be appropriate for "Margaret's
Waltz" to be danced at the many Valentine dances and balls to be held this
evening or in the coming week.

Susan Booker
Lexington, KY

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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:37:34 PST
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 11:41:52 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Tideswell-AT-
aol.com>

>I'll take Raging Fleshly Lusts please, to go.

<<Right, Paul.  You want fries with that?>>

Naw, that's one Raging Fleshly Lust I've learned (reluctantly) to resist.
Gets in the way of others...

Peace,
Paul

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 14:03:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Princess Margaret - a suggestion
To: ECD-AT-
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Susan wrote:

> The sad news of the death of Great Britain's Princess Margaret has reached
> most of us by now. She was the president of the English Folk Dance and Song
> Society, and was quite supportive in this role prior to her health
> complications in recent years.

I'm sorry to hear it.

> In honor and recognition of the life of Princess Margaret and her
> contributions to English folk dance, it would be appropriate for "Margaret's
> Waltz" to be danced at the many Valentine dances and balls to be held this
> evening or in the coming week.

Conveniently, I was going to call Margaret's Waltz at the Cyprians' anyway,
and indeed, called it last night at the rehearsal.  But a strain of pedantry
makes me remark that the dance was written for a different EFDSS-connected
Margaret, not the Princess at all.  (And if memory serves, "Princess Margaret's
Fancy", found in the Community Dance Manuals, was written for her.  There's no
question though, that "Margaret's Waltz" is the better dance.)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 15:35:47 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> 
> Paul said
> 
> >> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> >> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
> >> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
> >> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
> >> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
> >> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
> >> >
> >> >Hmmm, maybe we really should pay more attention to historical
> >> >authenticity in our dancing.
> >>
> >> I'm on it.  Sign me up for the Wanton Compliment committee.
> >
> ><<And I'm all for the Savoring of Sensuality.>>
> >
> >I'll take Raging Fleshly Lusts please, to go.
> 
> Right, Paul.  You want fries with that?
> 
> Nilos

well, it's wanton. but is it a compliment? now, pimiento, or capers on
the side...
oh, you didn't mean complement??
Guess I'd better get back to figgering out what effeminate playing
means, before tonight...
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 17:18:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 20:08:46 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Effeminacy in ECD Musique
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020209.201938.-1694269.6.AllisonThompson-AT-
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Well, here's my off-the-cuff thoughts ...


I think that the Rev'd Prynne's message relates to a sort of gestalt on
the topic that his readers in his century as well as those of later years
would have been aware of, to wit:


The very manly hero Odysseus [every gentleman worth his salt was properly
reared on the classics] was nearly "un-manned"--that is, he was actually
out of control, lost his "complaisance" (though fortunately his men did
not heed his commands as they had their ears stopped up with wax)--by the
enticing, entrancing (irreligious)  music of the (pagan) Sirens...

and...

French dancing masters are uniformly fops and effeminate [no further
evidence for this assertion needed in the 17th and 18th centuries] ...

... not to mention...

... Hopelessly ineffectual on a military and political basis since honest
John Bulls can beat them at sea and on land with one hand tied behind
their backs ....

... and...

.... the only appropriate exercise a modest young girl should engage in
(other than walking in the shrubbery) is dancing...

therefore...

dancing is girlish

therefore (post hoc ergo propter hoc) an excess of dancing or indulgence
in music makes one effeminate.


This all fits in with Lord Chesterfield's advice, more than a century
later than the Rev'd Prynne,  to his (rather backward natural) son to
dance only as well as a gentleman does, not as a dancing master does.

Q.E.D.

Allison
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:02:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:02:32 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> >> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> >> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
> >> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
> >> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
> >> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
> >> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> >> >>         Histriomastix (1632)

I cannot _believe_ that no-one has yet claimed the
ridiculous love pranks for their own, so I'll claim them for
myself.  Anyone challenging my authority here has only to
ask to see the straw trick.

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:34:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:37:21 -0500
From: Christina Wasch <chriswas-AT-
mediaone.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Archives
To: ECD-AT-
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mediaone.net>
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> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_FC4o5N2ZG4BSYs3be9gEmw)
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Where has it all gone?  Once upon a time the answer would have been: into
oral tradition. (But that answer couldn¹t have been given then, because oral
tradition, being All, hadn¹t yet been named.)  Then came Written tradition &
Scholarship to frame oral tradition, and it became possible to recover what
had been forgotten...after a fashion, at any rate.  So we have Living
tradition and we have Stored tradition, which is no longer dependent upon
living memory, but waits in books, in libraries, archives (and now in
computers), on hold for the nonce, but resurrectible again into Living
tradition- if some lively folks will give it the blood and energy to bring
it back.
However, Stored tradition can be owned exclusively in a way foreign to oral
tradition, as a Thing rather than as an activity.  Thereby the
priceless/(worthless) comes to be priced.  Even some of us collectors and
storers of such things want to be paid for keeping them; maintaining
archives becomes costly in a way that singing or dancing need not be.  We
few who value these neglected things have a vested interest that they should
not be priced out of the hands of others who will want to use them.  That is
part of the problem to which there is no answer.  And an archive is not the
performance itself, the song, the dance, the story, but only its bones.
          -   -   -   -   -    -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
-   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -   -
With the Pinewoods Camp archive that has been ingathering since 1983 or so,
the intended solution has been to make several (5 or 6) good copies of the
stuff as it is organized into volumes, plant one in the Camphouse for
general camper use, one on file for archivalist use and send the others on
to those groups and institutions most likely to find use for it.  (That most
of these copies haven¹t been sent out yet reflects only on lack of willing
help.)  The prospect for survival of material that will again prove
interesting and useful after years of neglect is enhanced when copies exist
in several places, each with a reference note as to where else copies can be
found.  Where only one ³original² survives, copies can still be shared;
where more ³originals can be found, they too can be shared systematically
among the copyholders.  Cooperative access makes archives meaningful.
Ed Wilfert

--Boundary_(ID_FC4o5N2ZG4BSYs3be9gEmw)
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Archives</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Geneva">Where has it all gone? &nbsp;Once upon a time the answer would have been: into oral tradition. (But that answer couldn&#8217;t have been given then, because oral tradition, being All, hadn&#8217;t yet been named.) &nbsp;Then came Written tradition &amp; Scholarship to frame oral tradition, and it became possible to recover what had been forgotten...after a fashion, at any rate. &nbsp;So we have Living tradition and we have Stored tradition, which is no longer dependent upon living memory, but waits in books, in libraries, archives (and now in computers), on hold for the nonce, but resurrectible again into Living tradition- if some lively folks will give it the blood and energy to bring it back.<BR>
However, Stored tradition can be owned exclusively in a way foreign to oral tradition, as a Thing rather than as an activity. &nbsp;Thereby the priceless/(worthless) comes to be priced. &nbsp;Even some of us collectors and storers of such things want to be paid for keeping them; maintaining archives becomes costly in a way that singing or dancing need not be. &nbsp;We few who value these neglected things have a vested interest that they should not be priced out of the hands of others who will want to use them. &nbsp;That is part of the problem to which there is no answer. &nbsp;And an archive is not the performance itself, the song, the dance, the story, but only its bones.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;- &nbsp;&nbsp;-<BR>
With the Pinewoods Camp archive that has been ingathering since 1983 or so, the intended solution has been to make several (5 or 6) good copies of the stuff as it is organized into volumes, plant one in the Camphouse for general camper use, one on file for archivalist use and send the others on to those groups and institutions most likely to find use for it. &nbsp;(That most of these copies haven&#8217;t been sent out yet reflects only on lack of willing help.) &nbsp;The prospect for survival of material that will again prove interesting and useful after years of neglect is enhanced when copies exist in several places, each with a reference note as to where else copies can be found. &nbsp;Where only one &#8220;original&#8221; survives, copies can still be shared; where more &#8220;originals can be found, they too can be shared systematically among the copyholders. &nbsp;Cooperative access makes archives meaningful. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Ed Wilfert</FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>


--Boundary_(ID_FC4o5N2ZG4BSYs3be9gEmw)--
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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:40:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:43:02 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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sbcglobal.net>

the bagel-on-a-string game was pretty hilariously ridiculous (especially
to _watch_).
I'm in for the kissing part, these days. (as another draft of
heart-shaped bubbles wafts by...)

Kalia Kliban wrote:
> 
> > >> >> William Prynne (1600 - 1669)
> > >> >> Dancing is for the most part attended with many amorous
> > >> >> smiles, wanton compliments, unchaste kisses, scurrilous
> > >> >> songs and sonnets, effeminate music, lust-provoking attire,
> > >> >> ridiculous love pranks, all of which savour only of
> > >> >> sensuality, of raging fleshly lusts.
> > >> >>         Histriomastix (1632)
> 
> I cannot _believe_ that no-one has yet claimed the
> ridiculous love pranks for their own, so I'll claim them for
> myself.  Anyone challenging my authority here has only to
> ask to see the straw trick.
> 
> --
> Kalia Kliban
> kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:27:57 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Princess Margaret - a suggestion
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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appeciate the thought of Susan Booker, but Margarets waltz was written for a
dufferent
Margaret. (viz Margaret Grant EFDSS rep in the S,W of England for many
years)
----- Original Message -----
From: "SUSAN B BOOKER" <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Princess Margaret - a suggestion


> The sad news of the death of Great Britain's Princess Margaret has reached
> most of us by now. She was the president of the English Folk Dance and
Song
> Society, and was quite supportive in this role prior to her health
> complications in recent years.
>
> In honor and recognition of the life of Princess Margaret and her
> contributions to English folk dance, it would be appropriate for
"Margaret's
> Waltz" to be danced at the many Valentine dances and balls to be held this
> evening or in the coming week.
>
> Susan Booker
> Lexington, KY
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 09:45:41 PST
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 12:45:20 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Princess Margaret - a suggestion
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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 What of "The Reel Princess"? And Google search turned up references to "Princess Margaret's Favorite".

Original Message:
-----------------
From: francis2 francis2-AT-
breathemail.net
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:27:57 +0000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Princess Margaret - a suggestion


appeciate the thought of Susan Booker, but Margarets waltz was written for a
dufferent
Margaret. (viz Margaret Grant EFDSS rep in the S,W of England for many
years)
----- Original Message -----
From: "SUSAN B BOOKER" <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 5:34 PM
Subject: Princess Margaret - a suggestion


> The sad news of the death of Great Britain's Princess Margaret has reached
> most of us by now. She was the president of the English Folk Dance and
Song
> Society, and was quite supportive in this role prior to her health
> complications in recent years.
>
> In honor and recognition of the life of Princess Margaret and her
> contributions to English folk dance, it would be appropriate for
"Margaret's
> Waltz" to be danced at the many Valentine dances and balls to be held this
> evening or in the coming week.
>
> Susan Booker
> Lexington, KY
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:59:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:21:49 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Raging fleshly lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020210.135613.-180097.12.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
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Re lusts, I can only say once again, good taste is timeless,
but a good time can be tasteless.  (Or tasty, depending
upon your proclivities.) 


+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:14:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:25:50 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002901c1b268$c301c2e0$49020140-AT-
default>
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References: <17d.34be2be.2996afce-AT-
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sbcglobal.net>

While no one in his or her right mind would challenge Kalia's authority on
ridiculous pranks of any kind ("to ignore her would be folly/And that's good
enough for me"), I challenge Nilos's position on the Wanton Compliments
Committee, on the grounds that she's already on the Scurrilous Songs Task
Force.

Argumentatively,

Marian Phillips
PS -- What's the straw trick?

From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
> I cannot _believe_ that no-one has yet claimed the
> ridiculous love pranks for their own, so I'll claim them for
> myself.  Anyone challenging my authority here has only to
> ask to see the straw trick.
> Kalia Kliban



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:16:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:16:21 -0500
From: Terry Gaffney <gaff-AT-
research.neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Valentine's dance in Boston
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a04320406b88c77592c14-AT-
[129.10.176.145]>
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Dear Friends,
  Those of you who are within driving distance of Boston, Mass. might 
be interested in our Valentine's day dance this coming Wednesday, 
Feb. 13, at the Park Avenue Congregational Church in Arlington. 
(Driving directions can be found at our web site www.cds-boston.org.)

Romance! and English Country dance go very well together. Just think 
of dances like "Saint Margaret's Hill", "Astoria Lass",  "The Bonnie 
Cuckoo" and "Well Hall". Every year we ask our staff of leaders to 
put together a party dance program for Valentine's day that takes 
advantage of all these wonderful dances in our repertoire.  I always 
look forward to seeing what they come up with.

While we're talking about romantic dances, I'd like to put a word in 
for "Turning by Threes" by Gary Roodman. It has a lush romantic tune, 
with interesting figures suitable for any party dance. (I'd also like 
to hear about other recent dances suitable for Valentine's day.)

Best,
  Terry
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:07:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:06:30 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Many Margarets
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001a01c1b27f$32d81fe0$eb03ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
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When I suggested that groups might like to dance "Margaret's Waltz" this
week in honor of the life of the late Princess Margaret, I didn't intend to
imply that I thought this lovely dance was composed in her honor. I knew she
was not its namesake, but thought that both the dance - and its name - were
timely despite its inspiration being another Margaret.

Hope this clarifies things...

Susan Booker

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:15:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:17:46 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C670DAA.85797CEC-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <17d.34be2be.2996afce-AT-
aol.com> <3C65FEE8.8F127B7-AT-
sbcglobal.net> <002901c1b268$c301c2e0$49020140-AT-
default>



Marian Phillips wrote:
> 
> While no one in his or her right mind would challenge Kalia's authority on
> ridiculous pranks of any kind ("to ignore her would be folly/And that's good
> enough for me"), I challenge Nilos's position on the Wanton Compliments
> Committee, on the grounds that she's already on the Scurrilous Songs Task
> Force.
> 
> Argumentatively,
> 
> Marian Phillips
> PS -- What's the straw trick?

Ask me sometime when we're in a restaurant...

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:28:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:28:09 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Many Margarets
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C671E29.AEB1434B-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <001a01c1b27f$32d81fe0$eb03ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>

Well,
There's also St. Margaret's Hill.

Albert

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:45:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:45:05 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org>
Subject: Mayfield Tea invitation (San Francisco Bay Area)
To: List - Renaissance Dance Mailing List <RENDANCE-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, Fezziwig's <list-AT-
fezziwigs.org>, Bay Area Community Dance <ba-community-dance-AT-
bacds.org>, Pryanksters <pryanksters-AT-
yahoogroups.com>, starryplough-AT-
yahoogroups.com, BACDS Announce <bacds-announce-AT-
bacds.org>, bacds-ritual-AT-
bacds.org, List - Morris Dancing Discussion <MORRIS-AT-
LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU>, List - ECD PLAYFORD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
CC: Faultline <Faultlinemorris-AT-
yahoogroups.com>, Norton's Guard <nortonsguard-AT-
yahoogroups.com>, Blue Rose Morris <blue-rose-AT-
yahoogroups.com>, DCMM <dcmm-AT-
yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002001c1b2c7$a356df20$6401a8c0-AT-
smock>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks,

Here is an invitation to the Mayfield Tea - a fundraiser for the Palo Alto morris team - sent on behalf of Kimberly St. Clair, one of the official team Tea Czarinas.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org <- new email
http://connect.to/ric

P.S. Apologies for any duplicates

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take Tea with Mayfield Morris & Sword!

You are invited to the 8th annual Mayfield Benefit Tea on Sunday,
February 17, from 2pm to 5pm at Fools' Paradise, the home of Ric Goldman
& Colette Wendt, 2626 Waverley Street in Palo Alto.  Sample an array of
fine teas, load your plate with scrumptious comestibles, visit with your
friends in a refined and genteel atmosphere, and enjoy music, dancing,
and other entertainment.  The cost is $15 for adults and $5 for children
under 12 (no charge for children under 5).  For reservations, please
email tea-AT-
mayfieldmorris.org or call Kimberly at 510-441-7383.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:37:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:37:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Raging Fleshly Lusts
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <14e.8bbe220.29993f2e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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It was objected that....

>While no one in his or her right mind would challenge Kalia's authority
>on
>ridiculous pranks of any kind ("to ignore her would be folly/And that's
>good
>enough for me"), I challenge Nilos's position on the Wanton Compliments
>Committee, on the grounds that she's already on the Scurrilous Songs Task
>Force.
>
>Argumentatively,
>
>Marian Phillips
>PS -- What's the straw trick?
>
>From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
>> I cannot _believe_ that no-one has yet claimed the
>> ridiculous love pranks for their own, so I'll claim them for
>> myself.  Anyone challenging my authority here has only to
>> ask to see the straw trick.
>> Kalia Kliban

Marian speaks, I presume, as a key member (Grand Spondee, say) of that 
notable task force.  

Our motto: if you've got the rhyme, we've got the reason.  

Nilos

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:31:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:31:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020211163111.98757.qmail-AT-
web13603.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> Our motto: if you've got the rhyme, we've got the reason.  
> 
> Nilos

I thought it was "If you've got the thyme, we've got the season."

B.


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:54:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:54:02 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Princess Margaret
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <d3.661310d.29995f3b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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The Real (sic) Princess was composed by Pat Shaw for a visit by HRH to Cecil Sharp House in her capacity as Society President. The dance was to be performed by Whirligigs (Marjorie Fennessy's demo team) in HRH's honour.
Picture the scene, then as Whirligigs are downstairs sweating on the top line to get their demo absolutely spot on, while the dancing proceeds in the main hall upstairs with the assembled company awaiting the arrival of their President. Just then a messenger arrives to say that HRH will not be coming after all!!!
Happily, the dance The Real Princess received its premiere demo as planned, but without the real princess' gracious presence!!!
Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
PS This was some years before I became a member of Whirligigs. N.
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:32:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Spice of life
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <RELAY383LUEM7RAluo3000040a7-AT-
relay3.softcomca.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


  According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination, I've got the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)


Original Message:
-----------------
From: Barbara Ruth barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:31:11 -0800 (PST)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Spice of life



--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> Our motto: if you've got the rhyme, we've got the reason.
>
> Nilos

I thought it was "If you've got the thyme, we've got the season."

B.


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://mail2web.com/ .

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:13:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:51:35 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020211.151307.-88251.12.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500 "wlinden-AT-
panix.com"
<wlinden-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> 
>   According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination, I've got 
> the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)

Actually, the line went, "I've got the thyme if you've got the
inclination," but I guess I'm splitting hairs here. :-)

Dawn Culbertson

________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:19:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:15:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Ian Andrew Engle <ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.10202111554.A18761-a100000-AT-
acme>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Dawn C. Culbertson wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500 "wlinden-AT-
panix.com"
> <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> > 
> >   According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination, I've got 
> > the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)
> 
> Actually, the line went, "I've got the thyme if you've got the
> inclination," but I guess I'm splitting hairs here. :-)

	Which was preceeded by the classic, "If you've got the money,
honey, I've got the thyme..."


				--Ian

	And if we're not careful we'll have the entire oratorio here.





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:11:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:10:22 -0600
From: Phil D'Agostino <phild-AT-
mum.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <008401c1b340$85041280$ff0f0a0a-AT-
mum.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: <Pine.3.07.10202111554.A18761-a100000-AT-
acme>

This is beginning to sound like a joke I know:

   What did the Leaning Tower of Pisa say to Big Ben?
    "If you've got the time, I've got the inclination.."

Phil D'Agostino (Fairfield, Iowa)


> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Dawn C. Culbertson wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500 "wlinden-AT-
panix.com"
> > <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> > > 
> > >   According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination, I've got 
> > > the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)
> > 
> > Actually, the line went, "I've got the thyme if you've got the
> > inclination," but I guess I'm splitting hairs here. :-)
> 
> Which was preceeded by the classic, "If you've got the money,
> honey, I've got the thyme..."
> 
> 
> --Ian
> 
> And if we're not careful we'll have the entire oratorio here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:59:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:59:10 -0500
From: "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Subject: RE: Re: Spice of life
To: "ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <RELAY24FR0rmTIVvLVK000037d4-AT-
relay2.softcomca.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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 On second thought, let's NOT reprint the entire libretto of THE SEASONINGS. It's a silly piece.


  "And there were in that same country Shepherd's Pies/Which lacked but one ingredient..."

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Ian Andrew Engle ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:15:54 -0500 (EST)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: Spice of life


On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Dawn C. Culbertson wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500 "wlinden-AT-
panix.com"
> <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> >
> >   According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination, I've got
> > the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)
>
> Actually, the line went, "I've got the thyme if you've got the
> inclination," but I guess I'm splitting hairs here. :-)

	Which was preceeded by the classic, "If you've got the money,
honey, I've got the thyme..."


				--Ian

	And if we're not careful we'll have the entire oratorio here.





--------------------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:06:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: RE: Re: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KE5FETEOAI9FYOBB-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Will wrote:

>  On second thought, let's NOT reprint the entire libretto of THE SEASONINGS.
>  It's a silly piece.

And copyrighted.  And off-topic.  So I'm going to second that suggestion.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:35:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:35:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Re: Spice of life
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020211223535.99556.qmail-AT-
web13601.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Good heavens, my post has created a monster.
Frankenthyme?

--- "wlinden-AT-
panix.com" <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> wrote:
>  On second thought, let's NOT reprint the entire libretto of THE
> SEASONINGS. It's a silly piece.
> 
> 
>   "And there were in that same country Shepherd's Pies/Which lacked
> but one ingredient..."
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Ian Andrew Engle ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:15:54 -0500 (EST)
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: Spice of life
> 
> 
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Dawn C. Culbertson wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:33:25 -0500 "wlinden-AT-
panix.com"
> > <wlinden-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> > >
> > >   According to P.D.Q. Bach, "If you've got the inclination,
> I've got
> > > the thyme.... Bide thy thyme..."  (THE SEASONINGS)
> >
> > Actually, the line went, "I've got the thyme if you've got the
> > inclination," but I guess I'm splitting hairs here. :-)
> 
> 	Which was preceeded by the classic, "If you've got the money,
> honey, I've got the thyme..."
> 
> 
> 				--Ian
> 
> 	And if we're not careful we'll have the entire oratorio here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:55:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:53:28 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Bishop
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001c1b357$4edb3500$b97b7ad5-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

My interpretation of the Bishop is now available at
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk from the “Notations” link.

Michael Barraclough


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:13:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:12:54 +0000
From: Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F60kjtjsX3Ra5cNtukG00003c8b-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
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>P.S.  This issue of inheritance has come up recently in the EJO society,

For some reason I can't figure out what EJO stands for - what is it Allison?

Ken McFarland

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:16:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:14:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KE5O5V65D29FWSP7-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ken quoted Allison Thompson

> >P.S.  This issue of inheritance has come up recently in the EJO society,

and wrote

> For some reason I can't figure out what EJO stands for - what is it Allison?


I'm not Allison, but having read her book on the subject, I'm figuring this is
Elsie J. Oxenham, who wrote a series young-adult books following a set of
schoolgirls as they grew up, in a time which included the spread of EFDSS and
the First World War.  (A figure recognizable as the young - still in England -
May Gadd appears in at least one of the books.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 03:12:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:11:24 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Bishop (enhanced)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201c1b3b6$02a0d8c0$81ac01d5-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I have changed the page layout so that the index does not shoot of the
page (thanks to Ruth Temple for pointing this out).  I have also added
music in ABC and Midi formats.

Michael Barraclough

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:17:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:20:35 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The second Tuesday in February - 2002.
To: normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEKELMDBAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Best wishes for: Shrove Tuesday, Mardi Gras, Lincoln's Birthday, and Happy
New Year (welcome to the year of the Horse).

There sure is a lot going on today.


Norman Bradley

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:21:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:21:01 -0800
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD in NZ?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100300b88f14932b8c-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
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Someone not on the list will be in New Zealand March 16-28 including 
March 22-23 in Christchurch, and is looking for ECD opportunities. 
Any leads? Albert, did you find out anything back in 2000?

Please reply to the list and I will forward anything useful to Carol 
Johnson <cnordj-AT-
sprynet.com> unless you cc to her.
-- 
Gary
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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:47:08 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:47:31 -0500
From: Lee Goldberg <leego-AT-
optonline.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Week at Augusta
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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MORTON>
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Just a note to let you all know that Dance Week (7/28 - 8/2) at the Augusta Festival in Elkins, WV will this year include a daily ECD class. This is in addition to the more usual fare of contras, squares , clogging, waltz, etc. Brad Saylor will be teaching English, Kathy Anderson and Susan Kevra will be doing squares and contras. Musicians include Sam Bartlett, Domino (French-Canadian), The Combine, Dave Wiesler, Steve Hickman, and Bob McQuillen. 

Dance Week coincides with Bluegrass Week at Augusta so there's lots of great music.
It's a beautiful site on the campus of Davis & Elkins college and a fun week. However it's been five years since they last included ECD and we'd like to encourage them to do it every year. 
Complete details and registration information is available on their web site: http://www.augustaheritage.com/dance.html

Arlene & Lee Goldberg
Newcomers to the ECD list.
Hoping you can join us at Augusta. 
Then you can rest for a week before Pinewoods.

--Boundary_(ID_c8q9n/FjYCzLJ7Pe2ZaWCw)
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<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
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<DIV><FONT size=2>Just a note to let you all know that Dance Week (7/28 - 8/2) 
at the Augusta Festival in Elkins, WV will this year include a daily ECD class. 
This is in addition to the more usual fare of contras, squares , clogging, 
waltz, etc. Brad Saylor will be teaching English, Kathy Anderson and Susan Kevra 
will be doing squares and contras. Musicians include Sam Bartlett, Domino 
(French-Canadian), The Combine, Dave Wiesler, Steve Hickman, and Bob McQuillen. 
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Dance Week coincides with Bluegrass Week at Augusta so there's 
lots of great music.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>It's a beautiful site on the campus of Davis &amp; Elkins 
college and a fun week. However it's been five years since they last included 
ECD and we'd like to encourage them to do it every year. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Complete details and registration information is available on 
their web site: <A 
href="http://www.augustaheritage.com/dance.html">http://www.augustaheritage.com/dance.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Arlene &amp; Lee Goldberg</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Newcomers to the ECD list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Hoping you can join us at Augusta. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Then you can rest for a week before 
Pinewoods.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_c8q9n/FjYCzLJ7Pe2ZaWCw)--
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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:26:34 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:26:17 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: EJO
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <181.37c7fd3.299afe99-AT-
aol.com>
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 18:29:47 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: EJO
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I'm not Allison, but having read her book on the subject, I'm figuring this
isElsie J. Oxenham, who wrote a series young-adult books following a set of
schoolgirls as they grew up, in a time which included the spread of EFDSS and
the First World War.  (A figure recognizable as the young - still in England
-May Gadd appears in at least one of the books.)

As do Cecil Sharp, Douglas Kennedy, Maud Karpeles and others: these are The Abbeyfield books, about a girls' school.
                          Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
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Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:37:55 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 22:40:29 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The second Tuesday in February - 2002.
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEKELMDBAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>

Gong Hay (Mardi Gras) Choy, t'you too (waving a chopstick cheerily...)

Norman Bradley wrote:
> 
> Best wishes for: Shrove Tuesday, Mardi Gras, Lincoln's Birthday, and Happy
> New Year (welcome to the year of the Horse).
> 
> There sure is a lot going on today.
> 
> Norman Bradley
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:32:57 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:51:17 +0100
From: Martin S <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Bishop
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020212194841.00a0b2a0-AT-
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At 00:53 12/02/02, you wrote:
>My interpretation of the Bishop ...

What do you mean by a rigadoon step?
or
What is normally understood in GB by a rigadoon step?

"Rigodon/rigaudon" has a number of meanings here in France, but I can't 
remember ever coming across the term in England.


Martin
in Grenoble, France
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/index.htm

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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:15:49 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000101c1b477$6a3a5440$b3812ed4-AT-
michael>
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Martin in Grenoble, France wrote on 12 February 2002 18:51

> What do you mean by a rigadoon step? 
> or
> What is normally understood in GB by a rigadoon step?

> "Rigodon/rigaudon" has a number of meanings here in France, but I
can't 
> remember ever coming across the term in England.

The dancing masters of the 17/18th century describe various (but all
basically similar) collections of movements which they describe as a
(English term) Rigadoon.  The term was still in use in 1822 (40+ years
after the Bishop was published) when Mr Chivers describes it (in his
"Modern Dancing Master") as

RIGADOON, or BALLOTTE
Names of steps; terms sometimes used for setting.

I think of it as a more sophisticated form of setting and teach it as
follows:

A small vertical spring off both feet, landing on one foot (R) with the
other foot (L) out to one side and very slightly forward, then a spring
off that (R) foot onto the other (L) with the free leg (R) going out to
the other side and very slightly forward, then a spring off that (L)
foot finishing with both feet together under you.

The L & R shown above are to clarify and either direction can be chosen
(best to agree with your partner first!).  A rigadoon step takes up the
same amount of time as two setting steps.

Perhaps Julia Sutton, if she is lurking, or someone else who has studied
this area could clarify further.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk/michael/notations.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:04:22 PST
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:01:31 +0100
From: Martin S <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020213145827.00a0a820-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
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Thanks for the description -- I'll have a practice. It sounds like one of 
the French steps I have seen here.

By the way, when I wrote:
> > I can't
> > remember ever coming across the term in England,

it was not an expression of doubt or disbelief, more an admission of my 
little first-hand knowledge.


Martin
in Grenoble, France
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/index.htm

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:45:16 PST
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:45:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202131445.OAA09356-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Wednesday, February 13, 2002 at 03:01:31 PM, Martin in Grenoble, France wrote:
> it was not an expression of doubt or disbelief, more an
> admission of my little first-hand knowledge.

No problem.  

I find the best way to think about this whole area of steps and country dances is to liken in to language.  Over time, dancers would have built up a vocabulary of steps which they could then use if the situation (music) felt appropriate and they had the skill.  This is no different to today when, for example, a contra dancer might break into some appalacian clogging steps if they have nothing better to do and the music motivates them.  The problem is that dancers then would have had a wide repertoire of such steps whereas dancers today usually only have a limited NATURAL repertoire.

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk/notations.html


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 06:54:20 PST
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 07:55:57 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where has it all gone???
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Sorry.  EJO is the Elsie J. Oxenham Society, a group of people who like
Elsie's 90 books, about 40 of which are in the Abbey Girls series that I
wrote about in Step Change, edited by Georgina Boyes.  (The girls do folk
dancing & encounter Sharp ("The Prophet") and Karpeles ("The Little
Page"), etc.  They're jolly good fun.)

Allison
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 08:03:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:03:52 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202131603.g1DG3qi08237-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Michael Barraclough writes:
> 
> I think of it as a more sophisticated form of setting and teach it as
> follows:
> 
> A small vertical spring off both feet, landing on one foot (R) with the
> other foot (L) out to one side and very slightly forward, then a spring
> off that (R) foot onto the other (L) with the free leg (R) going out to
> the other side and very slightly forward, then a spring off that (L)
> foot finishing with both feet together under you.

   What is the timing of these steps?  I tried doing a rigadoon much like
this during a dance at our Christmas Ball last year and found I needed to
add an extra step in order to fit the music.  I was making each landing
(on one foot or the other or both) occur on one beat of the music and since
there are only 3 landings it only took 3 beats and I felt the need to add
an extra hop for the 4th beat.  What was I doing wrong?

Jonathan

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|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
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|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:39:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:27:44 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Margaret's Waltz
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I sent this in a few years ago, but with the death of
Princess Margaret and the suggestions to include
Margaret's Waltz in dance programs, this seemed like a 
good time to mention the following once again.  I do
regret never having met Pat Shaw, being a fan of his 
rounds AND his wonderful dances.  Years back, while
watching an episode of that mid-1800s drama, Dr Quinn,
Medicine Woman, there was a wedding scene, and suddenly
the band tuned up and all the guests began waltzing to that
tune, Margaret's Waltz!   A pleasant surprise.



+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:02:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:52:56 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020213.125305.-805149.14.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:03:52 -0600 (CST) Jonathan Sivier
<j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
> What is the timing of these steps?  I tried doing a rigadoon much 
> like this during a dance at our Christmas Ball last year and found I 
> needed to add an extra step in order to fit the music.  I was making
each 
> landing (on one foot or the other or both) occur on one beat of the
music 
> and since there are only 3 landings it only took 3 beats and I felt the
need 
> to add an extra hop for the 4th beat.  What was I doing wrong?

Jonathan,

I'll join the "rigadoon platoon" (an auxiliary of the "ranters and
ravers," all divisions of the fleshly lusts conglomerate) and offer these
two interpretations.

Beat 1:        Spring, landing on R with L out to side
Beat 2:        Spring, landing on L with R out to side
Beat 3:        Feet together and spring off both feet to land...
Best 4:        Feet together (with a moment of poise)

Rigadoons were popular in colonial American dancing, and were often done:

Beat 1:        Spring, landing on L with R out to side
Beat 2:        Hop on L, landing feet together
Beat 3:        Hop on R, while extending L out to side quickly and back
to end with feet together
Beat 4:        Small spring on both feet

Rigadoons were often found at the finish of a chasse.  Fun to throw 'em
in here and there.  Try doing "Rakes of Rochester" with the 1's doing 4
chasse's down, rigadoon, chasse up and cast into the R's and L's.  Loads
of fun.

Alan and other 18th C. experts probably could add a lot more that's
useful...

Gene
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Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:11:07 PST
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:10:58 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Happy Captive qustions from Richard Brown
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <020301c1b4ca$8d43aa60$c902010a-AT-
lorettapc>
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References: <20020213.125305.-805149.14.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

Richard Brown (Binghamton CD, New York, USA)  is having trouble posting here
but receives messages.  He asked me to post this question for him.

I taught Happy Captive last week and it went fairly well, but there was a
lot of room for interpretation on the 8 bars when the actives lead down for
4 steps, turn, and skip up to the top and cast to the bottom, all in 8
bars.   I was wondering what the favored phrasing is that you might have
seen or would have taught.  Seems there are several possibilities:
1)  Four very slow steps in 4 bars, and individually turn; 4 bars of fast
skipping all the way to the top and cast (still skipping) to the bottom.
2) Four steps in 2 bars, a slow 2 bar individual turn to face up, and 4
bars of fast skipping up and cast (still skipping) to the bottom.
3) Four steps in 2 bars, and 2 bars of fast individual turn and skipping to
the top, followed by 4 bars of slow walk casting to the bottom.
4) Others?
      Any words of wisdom on this?"

Thanks for helping Richard.  By the way this dance is on the Binghamton Ball
on April 6, 2002.  For more info you can contact Richard at
rabrown-AT-
nyseg.com.  Perhaps the list manager could help him with his posting
problem while the rest of you help with the dance?

Loretta Holz
(Warren, NJ, USA)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:12:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:10:55 +0000
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: The Bishop and rigadoon steps
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201c1b4ca$8b87a280$55707ad5-AT-
michael>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thanks to Gene for a much better explanation of the rigadoon step than I
gave.  In mitigation, I was sat at my office desk trying to imagine it
and do it sitting down whilst typing the reply!!

Michael Barraclough
http://www.mab.tgis.co.uk/notations.html


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU] On Behalf Of Gene Murrow
Sent: 13 February 2002 17:53
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: The Bishop and rigadoon steps

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:03:52 -0600 (CST) Jonathan Sivier
<j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
> What is the timing of these steps?  I tried doing a rigadoon much 
> like this during a dance at our Christmas Ball last year and found I 
> needed to add an extra step in order to fit the music.  I was making
each 
> landing (on one foot or the other or both) occur on one beat of the
music 
> and since there are only 3 landings it only took 3 beats and I felt
the
need 
> to add an extra hop for the 4th beat.  What was I doing wrong?

Jonathan,

I'll join the "rigadoon platoon" (an auxiliary of the "ranters and
ravers," all divisions of the fleshly lusts conglomerate) and offer
these
two interpretations.

Beat 1:        Spring, landing on R with L out to side
Beat 2:        Spring, landing on L with R out to side
Beat 3:        Feet together and spring off both feet to land...
Best 4:        Feet together (with a moment of poise)

Rigadoons were popular in colonial American dancing, and were often
done:

Beat 1:        Spring, landing on L with R out to side
Beat 2:        Hop on L, landing feet together
Beat 3:        Hop on R, while extending L out to side quickly and back
to end with feet together
Beat 4:        Small spring on both feet

Rigadoons were often found at the finish of a chasse.  Fun to throw 'em
in here and there.  Try doing "Rakes of Rochester" with the 1's doing 4
chasse's down, rigadoon, chasse up and cast into the R's and L's.  Loads
of fun.

Alan and other 18th C. experts probably could add a lot more that's
useful...

Gene
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:28:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Happy Captive qustions from Richard Brown
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202131611230.21299-100000-AT-
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On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Loretta Holz wrote:

> Richard Brown (Binghamton CD, New York, USA)  is having trouble posting here
> but receives messages.  He asked me to post this question for him.
>
> I taught Happy Captive last week and it went fairly well, but there was a
> lot of room for interpretation on the 8 bars when the actives lead down for
> 4 steps, turn, and skip up to the top and cast to the bottom, all in 8
> bars.   I was wondering what the favored phrasing is that you might have
> seen or would have taught.  Seems there are several possibilities:
> 1)  Four very slow steps in 4 bars, and individually turn; 4 bars of fast
> skipping all the way to the top and cast (still skipping) to the bottom.
> 2) Four steps in 2 bars, a slow 2 bar individual turn to face up, and 4
> bars of fast skipping up and cast (still skipping) to the bottom.
> 3) Four steps in 2 bars, and 2 bars of fast individual turn and skipping to
> the top, followed by 4 bars of slow walk casting to the bottom.
> 4) Others?
>       Any words of wisdom on this?"

The way I've taught it, which I think fits for quite a few dances which
have this figure in a similar amount of music, is to have the active
couple go down the center at a fairly normal walking speed for about 6
steps (we're not actually counting steps, of course...) and then take a
couple at the end of the phrase to turn up, then return skipping to the
top and the cast down the outside.  That way they're ready to start back
up with four full measures of skipping to get back to the top and down the
outside, and since they're only six (or so) normal steps down from the
top, it isn't too hard to cover that much distance in four skipping steps
on the way back, and then they have four more skipping steps to get down
the outside, which for a three-couple set isn't hard at all.

This way the return to the top starts with a musical phrase and gives an
exuberant ending to the series of figures they have done, without leaving
any awkward pauses or unusually slow moves leading up to that final burst.

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:45:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:35:38 -0800
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: All Saints' Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100303b89090936b38-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I see that the choreography for All Saints' Day by David Ashwell was 
published in the CDSS News March/April 1991. My subscription began in 
November/December of that year. Any suggestions while waiting 
(patiently) for the CDSS to put back issues online?

(Google drew a blank.)
-- 
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:34:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 18:19:08 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Revenge
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020213.183148.-91059.28.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
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Yes, it will be dance related, sort of.   Like many others,
I commiserated with the Canadians over that questionable 
judging that gave the gold to the Russian skaters.  Then I
remembered the  Canadian judging at the Buffalo Gap Dance 
Week Olympics.  It was long in coming, but revenge at last ! 




+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ;  web -- roundz.tripod.com
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:03:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:35:31 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in NZ?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C6BBD23.F045A185-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <p05100300b88f14932b8c-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>

Yes, there is ECD in Christchurch. I'll send contact details to the list
and Ms. Johnson as soon as I can find them. They had their 70th
anniversary during our visit there, two years ago.

Albert



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:41:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:48:00 -0800
From: Robin Hayden <robinhayden-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: All Saints' Day and dances from CDSS
To: ecd list <ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C6C065F.21027A22-AT-
earthlink.net>
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Hello, all,

Gary asked about All Saints' Day, and I can't resist putting in a plug
for the soon-to-be-released CDSS publication, "Legacy," a collection of
[I think 100,  but I'm home sick and can't check -- correct me if I'm
wrong, Allison] dances, both English and American, previously published
by CDSS -- including All Saints' Day.   As of this writing, Pat
MacPherson (CDSS Publications director) is putting the finishing touches

on it, and the hope is that "Legacy" will be available in the early
Spring!

From what I've seen of it, this book -- the brainchild of our own
Allison Thompson -- promises to be as useful a resource as The Playford
Ball.  Allison, would you care to blow your own horn?

Robin Hayden
laid low in Amherst (cough cough)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:50:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C6BF800.879654FE-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
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Believe it or not but 8.02pm on February 20, 2002 will be an historic
moment in time.

It will not be marked by the chiming of any clocks or the ringing of
bells, but at that precise time, on that specific date, something will
happen which has not occurred for 1,001 years and will never happen again.

As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, time
will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002, 2002,
or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002.

The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long
before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock - at 10.01am
on January 10, 1001.

And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something that will
never happen again.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:22:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:24:46 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Real Princess and violinists
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C6C00EE.1FB3CD78-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <p05100300b88f14932b8c-AT-
[192.168.0.2]> <3C6BBD23.F045A185-AT-
sprintmail.com>

Pat Shaw's dance "The Real Princess" has been discussed here a bit
recently, and I expect that, due to recent sad events in the UK, it's going
to be featured at a few more dances than usual over the next couple of
weeks.  I never played it before last night, but now that I have I'd like
to point out that it's one of those tunes that callers might be well
advised to check out with their musicians in advance, especially if any of
those musicians are violinists, because the tune goes above the range that
can be played on the violin in first position, and some ECD dance players
don't play above first position.  Springing this tune on the band has the
potential for putting someone in the embarassing position of having to tell
you, halfway through teaching the dance, that he or she can't play it, and
I know nobody wants that to happen.

In general, this issue arises for any tune with any note higher than the
one that sits on top of the first little extra line above the staff.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:38:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:39:22 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Real Princess and violinists' limitations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b891b48ee8d5-AT-
[140.186.54.54]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <p05100300b88f14932b8c-AT-
[192.168.0.2]> <3C6BBD23.F045A185-AT-
sprintmail.com> <3C6C00EE.1FB3CD78-AT-
sbcglobal.net>

I strongly advise all fiddlers attempting to play ECD music to learn 
a few other positions besides 1st.  ECD is not contra dance music. 
You need to keep upgrading your skills for this stuff. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:40:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:34:25 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Problems for Musicians [was Re: Real Princess and violinists]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20020214122825.00b61698-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <p05100300b88f14932b8c-AT-
[192.168.0.2]> <3C6BBD23.F045A185-AT-
sprintmail.com>

Jon, thank you for your very helpful posting.  I'd love to have additional
pointers about the sorts of tunes that present problems for particular
instruments.
Hugs,
Sharon

At 10:24 AM 2/14/2002 -0800, Jon Berger wrote:
>Pat Shaw's dance "The Real Princess" has been discussed here a bit
>recently, and I expect that, due to recent sad events in the UK, it's going
>to be featured at a few more dances than usual over the next couple of
>weeks.  I never played it before last night, but now that I have I'd like
>to point out that it's one of those tunes that callers might be well
>advised to check out with their musicians in advance, especially if any of
>those musicians are violinists, because the tune goes above the range that
>can be played on the violin in first position, and some ECD dance players
>don't play above first position.  Springing this tune on the band has the
>potential for putting someone in the embarassing position of having to tell
>you, halfway through teaching the dance, that he or she can't play it, and
>I know nobody wants that to happen.
>
>In general, this issue arises for any tune with any note higher than the
>one that sits on top of the first little extra line above the staff.
>
>-- 
>Jon Berger
>Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
>Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
>http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:58:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:02:59 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001301c1b58a$3d956600$2e294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3C6BF800.879654FE-AT-
wi.mit.edu>

----- Original Message -----
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>

<<As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, time
will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002, 2002,
or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002.

The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long
before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock - at 10.01am
on January 10, 1001.

And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something that will
never happen again.>>

Two notes:

1) This only applies if you use the European system of date notation, where
Feb. 20th is 20/02, rather than the 2/20 used in the USA.

2) It will never happen again? How about 9:12 pm on Dec. 21, 2112?

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:02:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:58:41 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C6C08E0.2EA4B546-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3C6BF800.879654FE-AT-
wi.mit.edu> <001301c1b58a$3d956600$2e294b0c-AT-
paulstam>

yes, I realized it was European system when I forwarded it (I only
forwarded, didn't edit)...
hadn't done the math to see if any other dates applied

thx for the timely correction, Paul!

--Deb

Paul Stamler wrote:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
> 
> <<As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February 20, time
> will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect symmetry 2002, 2002, 2002,
> or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002.
> 
> The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern was long
> before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock - at 10.01am
> on January 10, 1001.
> 
> And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something that will
> never happen again.>>
> 
> Two notes:
> 
> 1) This only applies if you use the European system of date notation, where
> Feb. 20th is 20/02, rather than the 2/20 used in the USA.
> 
> 2) It will never happen again? How about 9:12 pm on Dec. 21, 2112?
> 
> Peace,
> Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:04:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:04:48 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Help on Elizabethan Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: snoyes-AT-
taconic.net
Message-ID: <162.8cdb9f4.299d6450-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I've just had a request from a local--Chatham NY--friend whose daughter is 
participating in Shakespeare Alive! (year long acting course for teenagers) 
for some coaching in Elizabethan dancing for a masquerade fundraiser to be 
held in mid-March. Can anyone out there recommend someone knowledgeable in 
Shakepearean period dance who could give this group of young people some 
pointers? Naturally, they'd have to live within the Albany-Pittsfield-Hudson 
area.

Thanks! You can reply to me offlist.

Judy Grunberg
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:11:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:11:11 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English-American Weekend in Urbana, IL
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202141911.g1EJBB618704-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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English-American Dance & Music Weekend

March 15-17, 2002

Urbana, Illinois

The Central Illinois English Country Dancers, in cooperation with the
International Folk Dance Society and the Urbana Country Dancers will be
holding a weekend of English and American dance and music at the Illini
Student Union on the campus of the University of Illinois. 

                                    Featuring

                                Dance Instruction By
                           Tom Senior and Barbara Cool
                                    From Chicago 
                                     Music By
                           Bob Borcherding and Friends
                                Bob Borcherding - violin
                                  Pam Carson - violin
                           Margaret Ann Goodman - woodwinds
                                 Kristin Graham - piano 

$35 for the weekend in advance, $40 at the door

Jenifer Cartwright at jencart-AT-
mycidco.com or 217/352-2803

web page: http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/weekend.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:11:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:04:44 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020214.170226.-730095.0.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu> writes:
> 
> Believe it or not but 8.02pm on February 20, 2002 will be an 
> historic moment in time...  The last occasion that time read in such a
symmetrical pattern was 
> long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock...

Wow!  Thanks for sending that along, Deb.  I hope you'll be dancing "Fair
and Softly," the only ECD I can think of that has perfect vertical
symmetry (you are _always_ opposite your partner as you move up or down
or across the set).

[I'm counting on you, Paul S., to find another  :-)  ]

Gene

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:28:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:28:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020214232813.14000.qmail-AT-
web13608.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
> 
> And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something that
> will never happen again.>>

> 2) It will never happen again? How about 9:12 pm on Dec. 21, 2112?

Well, that's certainly a relief.  Now I don't have to worry about
what I'm going to do to celebrate that never to be repeated event
(and whatever would I have found to wear..)

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:46:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:46:41 +0000
From: munisteri-AT-
att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020214234641.WOFL11755.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net-AT-
webmail.worldnet.att.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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How about Easter Thursday?

Cheers, Art (still enjoying Tuesday night's experience)
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:46:41 -0500 Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu> writes:
> > 
> > Believe it or not but 8.02pm on February 20, 2002 will be an 
> > historic moment in time...  The last occasion that time read in such a
> symmetrical pattern was 
> > long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour clock...
> 
> Wow!  Thanks for sending that along, Deb.  I hope you'll be dancing "Fair
> and Softly," the only ECD I can think of that has perfect vertical
> symmetry (you are _always_ opposite your partner as you move up or down
> or across the set).
> 
> [I'm counting on you, Paul S., to find another  :-)  ]
> 
> Gene
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
> ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
> destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:25:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:25:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020215032548.33894.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
> 
> <<As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February
> 20, time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect
symmetry
> 2002, 2002, 2002, or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002.
> 
> The last occasion that time read in such a symmetrical pattern
> was long before the days of the digital watch and the 24-hour
> clock - at 10.01am on January 10, 1001.
> 
> And because the clock only goes up to 23.59, it is something
> that will never happen again.>>
> 
> Two notes:
> 
> 1) This only applies if you use the European system of date
> notation, where Feb. 20th is 20/02, rather than the 2/20 used
> in the USA.
> 
> 2) It will never happen again? How about 9:12 pm on Dec. 21,
> 2112?

Also note that it will not happen simultaniously everywhere, as
it depends upon which time zone you're in.

How do you figure what time it is when in space? Does it depend
upon where the launching site is? Do they use Greenwich Mean
Time? Do they use Houston time?

Andy

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:13:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:13:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1126
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Gene remarked

>the "rigadoon platoon" (an auxiliary of the "ranters and
>ravers," all divisions of the fleshly lusts conglomerate

The rigadoon has, moreover, the distinction of being the only dance step 
mentioned (by that trenchant commentator on raging fleshly lusts, Dorothy 
Parker) in her "Love Song" (1924) 

    "My love runs by like a day in June, 
      And he makes no friends of sorrows. 
    He'll tread his galloping rigadoon 
    In the pathway of the morrows."

Nilos, whose spellchecker is not at all sure about 'rigadoon', and suggests, 
instead, 'rigatoni'
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:51:29 PST
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:55:42 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>

<<How do you figure what time it is when in space? Does it depend
upon where the launching site is? Do they use Greenwich Mean
Time? Do they use Houston time?>>

I believe I read someplace that they use Greenwich Mean Time on the shuttle.
Not sure about the International Space Station, but it makes even more sense
there.

What the Maid in the Moon uses, I don't know. (But for her, every night
lasts two of our weeks and a bit more.)

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:15:01 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problems for Musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:34:25 -0500 Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> Jon, thank you for your very helpful posting.  I'd love to have 
> additional
> pointers about the sorts of tunes that present problems for 
> particular
> instruments.

I don't know if you have recorder players among your musicians, but can
tell you that, generally speaking, the more sharps in the key the harder
a time the player's going to have. I've found from experience that
playing in the keys of A and E are particularly bad. Also, most recorders
are tuned in either C or F and have a much more limited range than
instruments like the fiddle and piano (usually, only a little over 2
octaves). One example of a problem tune in this regard is Elegance and
Simplicity. In the A strain, the tune goes down to G below middle C,
which is physically impossible on a C instrument, and the tune doesn't
work on an F instrument because it doesn't play high enough. So the
player is faced with the dilemma of either having to leave notes out or
transpose problem notes up or down an octave, which invariably makes the
result awkward.

Dawn Culbertson


________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:27:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:27:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202150922550.61398-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Andrew Peterson wrote:

> --- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
> >
> > <<As the clock ticks over from 8.01pm on Wednesday, February
> > 20, time will, for sixty seconds only, read in perfect
> symmetry
> > 2002, 2002, 2002, or to be more precise - 20:02, 20/02, 2002.
>
> . . . . it will not happen simultaniously everywhere, as
> it depends upon which time zone you're in.
>
> How do you figure what time it is when in space?

An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  His twin
brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns to
Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is still in his
twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 07:21:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:21:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Problems for Musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202150923080.20029-100000-AT-
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On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Dawn C. Culbertson wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:34:25 -0500 Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com> writes:
> > Jon, thank you for your very helpful posting.  I'd love to have
> > additional
> > pointers about the sorts of tunes that present problems for
> > particular
> > instruments.
>
> I don't know if you have recorder players among your musicians, but can
> tell you that, generally speaking, the more sharps in the key the harder
> a time the player's going to have. I've found from experience that
> playing in the keys of A and E are particularly bad. Also, most recorders
> are tuned in either C or F and have a much more limited range than
> instruments like the fiddle and piano (usually, only a little over 2
> octaves).

I'd strongly urge callers who aren't familiar with the particular
instruments that their musicians will be playing _not_ to try to decide
for them if the tune is appropriate or not, but to consider the
question far enough in advance to be able to put it to the musicians
themselves.  Personally speaking, I feel that relatively fast dance music
in sharp keys fall more comfortably on recorders than pieces in flat keys,
and find it easier to make the rapid finger changes required by the
sequences of sharps than the flats.

But what really matters isn't the key so much as the context within which
the notes occur.  Sometimes you'll have a tune in three or four sharps in
which the last sharp almost never occurs, or comes up only once or twice
in the whole piece in a context which is not at all difficult to manage --
this I believe is because the last sharp added is the seventh of the new
(major) key, which is most likely to occur just before cadences in the
melody, while the last flat added is the dominant (fifth) of the
corresponding major key, which is likely to be used much more frequently.

So the particular experience of different players, as well as the ways in
which the the notes occur in the melody, should all be taken into
consideration, and if, because a musician has trouble with one piece in,
say, A, you bias all of your selections away from that, you eliminate some
of the potential for variety in the program which helps to keep it
interesting both for dancers and musicians, and you reduce the incentive
and opportunity for growth on the part of the musicians.  You also might
get into the habit of thinking that certain pieces aren't good for
recorders, and miss an opportunity to hear an example to the contrary when
you work with different musicians.

The limits in range are somewhat more absolute, and it wouldn't be
inappropriate for dance leaders who regularly work with recorder players
to learn which instruments they play and what the ranges are that they can
cover (this may depend on the player as well as the instrument, however).
But again, in the case of notes out of the range, especially below the
normal range, some musicians may be able to deal with it comfortably --
give them a chance, and even consider getting them to write out a modified
copy of what they play for others to try, if it's a dance you really want
to do and the musicians don't have other options.  There are also
occasional instances of recorders in G and D, too, which change both the
range options and the preferred keys...

And, of course, transposition is not unheard-of -- it's _real_ easy to do
with almost any sort of music software these days   :-)

Eric Arnold (who would like more opportunities to use his G alto, which
plays very happily in E...)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:06:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:08:39 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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"Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:
 
> An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  His twin
> brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns to
> Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is still in his
> twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?

Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an early age.  

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:37:25 PST
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:33:40 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Jon Berger wrote:
> 
> "Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:
> 
> > An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  His twin
> > brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns to
> > Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is still in his
> > twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?
> 
> Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an early age.

and there are those of us who reread Heinlein's early, juvenile sci fi
every few years, much to the embarassment of our children ("Citizen of
the Galaxy", anyone?)

but the real response to Priscilla's question is, "Maybe, but social
security would probably be bankrupt by that point."

;-)

Deb
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:35:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:35:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0202151834190.66374-100000-AT-
gnu.uvm.edu>
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On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jon Berger wrote:

> "Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:
>
> > An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  His twin
> > brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns to
> > Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is still in his
> > twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?
>
> Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an early age.

What is Heinlein's "Time for the Starts?"  Is it a science fiction story?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:53:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEB4CNH4249FXD0R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jon Berger wrote:

> > "Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:
> >
> > > An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  His twin
> > > brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns to
> > > Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is still in his
> > > twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?
> >
> > Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an early age.

> What is Heinlein's "Time for the Starts?"  Is it a science fiction story?

Well, we're definitely extremely far off-topic, but I'll answer that question
before asking people to come closer to on-topicness.

Robert Anson Heinlein, who wrote science-fiction aimed at the adult market from
1939 until his death in the late 1980s, did a series of very influential
"juvenile" novels from 1949 through the late 1950s.  While the first ("Rocket
Ship Galileo", filmed as "Destination Moon") isn't much read, the later ones,
including "Space Cadet", "Red Planet", "Farmer in the Sky", "Between Planets",
"The Rolling Stones" (UK title: Space Family Stone), "Starman Jones",
"The Star Beast", "Tunnel in the Sky" (which happened to be the book that, at
eleven, made me realize I was a science-fiction reader - thus bringing me into
sf fandom, where I encountered Regency dancing and thus ECD), "Time for the
Stars", "Citizen of the Galaxy", "Have Space Suit, Will Travel", and - some
consider - "Podkayne of Mars" - are still read, even though the science and
technology predictions have been shown false.  (Spaceship navigation done by
lightning mental calculation, not computers; canals on Mars, etc.)  Most will
repay adult attention - Heinlein didn't write down to his young-adult audience
at all, and they're mostly "juveniles" because the viewpoint characters are
teenagers or young adults.

While there's a lot going on (including telepathic contact between twins and a
weird prefiguring of Heinlein's later, somewhat embarrassing, old-man
young-woman stuff [as seen in "Time Enough For Love"]) in "Time for the Stars",
the basic plot is about one twin staying on Earth while the other takes off
for the stars and experiences relativistic time-dilation effects.

I'm pretty sure there is no country-dancing in any of Heinlein's works - but
there might be some square-dancing somewhere.  He did go to high school with
Sally Rand, who later became the famous fan-dancer (and who attended the 1986
World Science Fiction Convention, at which Heinlein was guest of honor).

Hope this helps!  Now let's discuss something else.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:58:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:58:22 -0500
From: Michael Siemon <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100300b89350a81590-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
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>  > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jon Berger wrote:
>
>
>I'm pretty sure there is no country-dancing in any of Heinlein's works - but
>there might be some square-dancing somewhere.

Yes. _Time Enough For Love_ has Lazarus Long as a square dance caller in
a weird "fantasy 19th century American frontier on a new planet" episode.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:44:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 15:44:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020216234424.65011.qmail-AT-
web13609.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
wrote:

> > > "Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:

> > What is Heinlein's "Time for the Stars?"  Is it a science
> fiction story?
> 
> Hope this helps!  Now let's discuss something else.

Mmmm..."Door into Summer"?

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:28:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:28:00 -0600
From: Chrissy Howell <chrissy-AT-
mail.socket.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fabulous (&low-cost!) St. Louis ECD Weekend May 4-5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: johnberni-AT-
earthlink.net
Message-ID: <v04220800b895a307236f-AT-
[134.124.70.109]>
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Dear ECD List,
John Ramsay wanted me to pass this along to y'all; please address any
questions to him. I hope folks can make it in to town for a weekend 
of great ECD!
Missouri Botanical Garden is a stunning place to visit and it will be 
very special
to get to dance there!
Best,
Chrissy {who is flying back from Cape Town in time for this dance}
----------------------------------------------

Subject: English Country Dance May 4-5 in St Louis at Botanical Garden
From: John Ramsay <johnberni-AT-
earthlink.net>

English Country Garden Dance Weekend
Missouri Botanical Garden   (See www.mobot.org for general admission
[for non-dancers], location, etc.)

    English country dancers are hereby invited to an unusual weekend of
dancing.  Daytime dances Saturday and Sunday will be held on the green at
the beautiful, world famous Missouri Botanical Garden.  And its free for
dancers who pre-register and come in Jane Austen period attire.
    The Saturday night dance will be held in a lovely old chapel on the south
campus of the University of Missouri at St Louis, admission $5.

Saturday, May 4, 2002
    9:30A M    Performers arrive at Garden and come to the Kemper Garden for
            rehearsal, present your pass as you enter
    10:30    Dancers assemble at Ridgeway, the Garden entrance, and receive a
flowering branch while readings from Jane Austen are given at Kemper Garden
    10:45    *Gisburn Processional to the Kemper Garden
            *The Beginning of the World
            *May Day Carol
            Barbarini's Tambourine
            Capering Roisters exhibition, Country Gardens
    11:15    Invitation to crowd to wind the maypole, reading from Jane
Austen
    11:50    Dances program (dances will be called but not taught)
            Waterfall Waltz
            Upon a Summer's Day
            Black Nag
            Fandango
            Fenterlarik
            Lovely Nancy
    12:50    Lunch break
    3:00    *Gisburn Processional from Entrance to Kemper Garden while
readings from Jane Austen are given at Kemper Garden
            *The Beginning of the World
            *May Day Carol
            Fenterlarik
            Capering Roisters exhibition, Country Gardens
    3:30    Invitation to crowd to wind the maypole, Jane Austen reading
    4:00    Dances program (dances will be called but not taught)
            I Care Not for these Ladies
            Christchurch Bells
            Auretti's Dutch Skipper
            Duke of Kent's Waltz
            Newcastle
            Handel with Care
    5:00    Supper break
    7:30-11:00 PM English Country Dance Ball (walkthroughs)
    Cambridge Room at Honors Hall, UMSL South Campus,  Jane Austen reading
            O Susato
            Freeford Gardens
            Heidenroslein
            A Trip to Hexham
            The Homecoming
            Hunt the Squirrel
            The Introduction
            Jack's Maggot
        Break followed by Jane Austen reading
            Juice of Barley
            John Tallis' Canon
            Knole Park
            Levi Jackson Waltz
            Michael and All Angels
            Mr Beveridge's Maggot
            Nonesuch
            Prince William
            Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do?
            Zephyrs and Flora
            Wood Duck

Sunday, May 5, 2002
    2:00    *Gisburn Processional from Entrance to Kemper Garden while
readings from Jane Austen at Kemper Garden
            *The Beginning of the World
            *May Day Carol
            Duke of Kent's Waltz
            Capering Roisters exhibition, Country Gardens
    2:30    Invitation to crowd to wind the maypole, Jane Austen reading
    3:00    Dances (called but not taught)
            Black Joke
            Christina
            Come Let's be Merry
            Comical Fellow
            Elizabeth
            Farewell Marian

R. S. V. P. to:  John M. Ramsay  520 Mapleview Drive  University City  MO
63130
johnberni-AT-
earthlink.net

* For performing dancers only, i.e. those who attend the 9:30 Saturday
morning rehearsal.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:02:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:06:52 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Where is it NOW?
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200202171602_MC3-F278-7C32-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Most teachers and leaders - unfortunately, and perhaps only until recently
- had to reinvent the wheel when it came to cataloging their holdings. I
bet that many of us still carry all that relevant information primarily
between our ears....
Peter Rogers' index in the '80s was a big help, but information about ECD
in ALL media has either grown, or made accessible, by leaps and bounds. I
have to reorganize my own collection soon to reflect that growth. So I'm
wondering whether you any of you have discovered the cat's meow: a system
that works really well and would be understood by someone other than you
yourself.
Spreadsheet? ",delimited" text file - or what?
The thought that the knowledge of 'what is where' disappears with the
disappearance of the erstwhile collector/curator/user is really scary!
Please let us know what you use and/or what is out there and you are
planning to use - someday...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:27:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:26:14 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Cape Cod MA - ECD - February 22
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b895f9d4a006-AT-
[63.214.111.218]>
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References: <20020129.181715.-294301.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com> <01KDNHQD46NO9FNXA4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

For those who may be within range of Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA...


Cape Cod English Country Dance
Friday, February 22
8 - 11 pm at the East Sandwich Grange
                   (85 Old County Road, E Sandwich)
Musicians: Jan Elliott (recorder and concertina), R.P. Hale (harpsicord),
                   Chris Rua (oboe and recorders) and Julian Cole 
(viola da gamba
                   and recorders)
Dance Leaders: Priscilla Adams and Linda Nelson
As always, all are welcome and all dances will be taught.
Admission: $6


The next dance will be Friday, March 15, and the musicians will be 
R.P. Hale (harpsichord) and Earl Gaddis (violin, viola).
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:35:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:28:48 +0000 ("GMT)
From: Anthony Stone <ajs1-AT-
cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <15473.7600.371352.715592-AT-
fandango.ch.cam.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200202171602_MC3-F278-7C32-AT-
compuserve.com>

I use FileMaker, and I'm very pleased with it. It's not free,
unfortunately, but it's very powerful and versatile. It's also
possible with recent versions to set up a relational database, so that
(for example) I can have a database containing cribs for each dance,
and the database of music tracks is set up to cross-reference the
appropriate crib. I can print out crib cards direct from the database
program. It's also very easy to search for dances of a specified type, 
as well as finding all occurrences of a particular dance by name. And
pretty easy to set up for your own particular needs.

At 16:06 on 17 February, Hanny D. Budnick wrote:

 > Most teachers and leaders - unfortunately, and perhaps only until recently
 > - had to reinvent the wheel when it came to cataloging their holdings. I
 > bet that many of us still carry all that relevant information primarily
 > between our ears....
 > Peter Rogers' index in the '80s was a big help, but information about ECD
 > in ALL media has either grown, or made accessible, by leaps and bounds. I
 > have to reorganize my own collection soon to reflect that growth. So I'm
 > wondering whether you any of you have discovered the cat's meow: a system
 > that works really well and would be understood by someone other than you
 > yourself.
 > Spreadsheet? ",delimited" text file - or what?
 > The thought that the knowledge of 'what is where' disappears with the
 > disappearance of the erstwhile collector/curator/user is really scary!
 > Please let us know what you use and/or what is out there and you are
 > planning to use - someday...
 > 
 >   _-AT-
_      {)/'
 >  /\ /\_._,<_/
 > '  \      /_\
 >    />    /<  Hanny
 > 

-- 
Anthony Stone				http://www-stone.ch.cam.ac.uk/
University Chemical Laboratory,         Email:   ajs1-AT-
cam.ac.uk
Lensfield Road,                         Phone:  +44 1223 336375
Cambridge CB2 1EW                       Fax:    +44 1223 336362
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:44:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:44:35 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b896d1355d25-AT-
[140.186.55.104]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200202171602_MC3-F278-7C32-AT-
compuserve.com> <15473.7600.371352.715592-AT-
fandango.ch.cam.ac.uk>

As many of you know, I set up a card format in Hypercard years ago 
and have the prompts and incipits of the melodies in it for all the 
dances I've gotten to making cards for.

This is both searchable by all fields, as well as individual words in 
all fields, but printable as a card if one must, although I still 
find a book easier to carry around.

As for the number of cards, as with any database one really has to 
discipline onesself to continue the process of entering data. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:35:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:35:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Keeping and Saving
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <142.9b9e922.29a28748-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

How greatly our ideas about what it's worthwhile to keep, record, archive, or 
save have changed, eh?

From Boswell's Journals  Kassel, Firday 26 October, 1764
"At eight I saw the Maison des Sciences.... A collection of old musical 
instruments, an odd enough conceit"

Ditto our ideas about *how* to archive.  Later, in Bearne, he mentions a 
library-keeper who has a curious but useful system of writing down, in a 
catalogue, something more than merely the name of a manuscript.

Nilos



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:59:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:39:50 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020218.215733.-104927.7.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:08:39 -0800 Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
writes:
> "Priscilla M. Burrage" wrote:
>  
> > An American astronaut, aged 22, takess off for a distant planet.  
> His twin
> > brother has a quiet job here on Earth.  The astronaut twim returns 
> to
> > Earth after many years.  His twin brother is over 65, but he is 
> still in his
> > twenties.   Question:  Is he entitled to Social Security?
> 
> Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an 
> early age.  

Add my name to the list--I was a big fan of Heinlein in 5th & 6th grade.

Dawn Culbertson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:55:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:03:48 +1100
From: Aylwen Garden <garden-AT-
earthlydelights.com.au>
Subject: Fw: SCAND: Scandia Mendocino home threatened
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <00f001c1b902$d2a534c0$75ecfea9-AT-
webone.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Forgive me if this is off-topic.

From: "Jennifer Brosious" <brosious-AT-
cttel.net>
To: "ScandiaEmail" <scand-AT-
yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:45 PM
Subject: SCAND: Scandia Mendocino home threatened


> For those of you Scandinavian dance lovers who have danced or ever hope to
> dance in the future in the beautiful redwoods of Mendocino---
>
> URGENT NEWSFLASH: MENDOCINO SCANDIA CAMP'S HOME "THE WOODLANDS" IN DANGER
OF
> BEING
> LOGGED!!!
>
> ACTION ALERT: with almost no warning to the public, the Mendocino Forest
> Council (which is the official advisory group to the Mendocino Board of
> Supervisors) will vote on a resolution this Wednesday (Feb 20), which will
> determine the fate of Jackson State Forest (JSF), home of "The Woodlands"
> and Mendocino Scandia Camp.
>
> As the new logging season is rapidly approaching, the powerful logging
> industry here in Mendocino has been quietly lobbying its political allies
on
> the Forest Council to press for a resumption of large-scale logging in
> Jackson State Forest as quickly as possible. We learned of this impending
> action only a couple of days ago.
>
> YOU MUST ACT IMMEDIATELY since the Council will meet this Wednesday (Feb
> 20).
>
> HERE'S WHAT TO DO: call or send a fax to the secretary of the Forest
> Council, Linda Blachford, and tell her that you STRONGLY OPPOSE the
> resolution supporting timber management in Jackson State Forest and that
you
> STRONGLY SUPPORT the goals of the  "Campaign to Restore Jackson State
> Redwood Forest", which seek to restore the forest for preserving habitat,
> recreation, education and research. Also, tell them that you come to
> Mendocino every year and spend lots of $$$ here. Making money from the
> forest is what they care about above all!!!
>
> Linda's phone number is: 707-463-4495
> Linda's fax number is: 707-463-4477
> e-mail is: cemendocino-AT-
ucdavis.edu
>
> We think sending a fax is best because many copies will be made for all
> members of the Council, so it will have visual impact, and your message
will
> be conveyed to many people. E-mail has the least clout, but use it if you
> absolutely can't help in any other way. WE MUST WIN this one, so PLEASE
ACT
> NOW TO STOP LOGGING OF JACKSON STATE FOREST!
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ----
> This listserv is currently ad-free thanks to our generous sponsor! For
further information on the SCAND community and how to utilize this listserv
and website, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scand/
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:50:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 22:48:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fw: SCAND: Scandia Mendocino home threatened
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEFPR29EKA9FZEBB-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Aylwen wrote:

> Forgive me if this is off-topic.

In fact, the same facility is the home of BACDS's Mendocino English Week as
well as a number of other folk dance camps.  I guess that makes it on-topic.

-- Alan




> From: "Jennifer Brosious" <brosious-AT-
cttel.net>
> To: "ScandiaEmail" <scand-AT-
yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:45 PM
> Subject: SCAND: Scandia Mendocino home threatened


> > For those of you Scandinavian dance lovers who have danced or ever hope to
> > dance in the future in the beautiful redwoods of Mendocino---
> >
> > URGENT NEWSFLASH: MENDOCINO SCANDIA CAMP'S HOME "THE WOODLANDS" IN DANGER
> OF
> > BEING
> > LOGGED!!!
> >
> > ACTION ALERT: with almost no warning to the public, the Mendocino Forest
> > Council (which is the official advisory group to the Mendocino Board of
> > Supervisors) will vote on a resolution this Wednesday (Feb 20), which will
> > determine the fate of Jackson State Forest (JSF), home of "The Woodlands"
> > and Mendocino Scandia Camp.
> >
> > As the new logging season is rapidly approaching, the powerful logging
> > industry here in Mendocino has been quietly lobbying its political allies
> on
> > the Forest Council to press for a resumption of large-scale logging in
> > Jackson State Forest as quickly as possible. We learned of this impending
> > action only a couple of days ago.
> >
> > YOU MUST ACT IMMEDIATELY since the Council will meet this Wednesday (Feb
> > 20).
> >
> > HERE'S WHAT TO DO: call or send a fax to the secretary of the Forest
> > Council, Linda Blachford, and tell her that you STRONGLY OPPOSE the
> > resolution supporting timber management in Jackson State Forest and that
> you
> > STRONGLY SUPPORT the goals of the  "Campaign to Restore Jackson State
> > Redwood Forest", which seek to restore the forest for preserving habitat,
> > recreation, education and research. Also, tell them that you come to
> > Mendocino every year and spend lots of $$$ here. Making money from the
> > forest is what they care about above all!!!
> >
> > Linda's phone number is: 707-463-4495
> > Linda's fax number is: 707-463-4477
> > e-mail is: cemendocino-AT-
ucdavis.edu
> >
> > We think sending a fax is best because many copies will be made for all
> > members of the Council, so it will have visual impact, and your message
> will
> > be conveyed to many people. E-mail has the least clout, but use it if you
> > absolutely can't help in any other way. WE MUST WIN this one, so PLEASE
> ACT
> > NOW TO STOP LOGGING OF JACKSON STATE FOREST!
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > ----
> > This listserv is currently ad-free thanks to our generous sponsor! For
> further information on the SCAND community and how to utilize this listserv
> and website, go to:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scand/
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:06:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:10:01 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: My ISP has the flu
To: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000501c1b989$cef4eaa0$ca344b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi folks:

My ISP has been having "network troubles" for the last 2 days, and virtually
no e-mail has come to me. They tell me the stuff is waiting out there in
cyberspace, and will get to me eventually, but meanwhile, if you've sent me
anything in the last couple of days that you want to be double-sure of,
please send it again; I've set up my forwarder to flip it to another
account. Thanks, and sorry for the mess!

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:24:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:22:11 -0800
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Yellow Stockings and F
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100307b8988d3c4d22-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

We're going to dance Yellow Stockings tonight. The pianist heard the 
Bare Necessities recording and really likes the sharpened F. So I 
emailed the other musicians to sharpen the F. The fiddler just got 
back yesterday and called the pianist to say she doesn't like the F#. 
I haven't heard from the accordionist or the recorder player.

What's the history of this F# and what do I do now? Maybe they should 
play it both ways, although not at the same time.
-- 
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:05:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:05:16 -0600
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Yellow Stockings and F
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B898445C.5A50%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Play the F and the F# simultaneously and tell everyone that that the tune
originated somewhere in Bulgaria.

Shooz


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:43:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:43:05 -0800
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Tonight
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100308b898a09edb42-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Those of you who read your email often are hereby alerted to 
tonight's English Country Dance, featuring music performed by Linelle 
Glass, Jean Olson, Robert Winokur and Kristina Eriksen.

This will be at the Westside Community Center, 423 W. Victoria, where 
Victoria is interrupted by the freeway, on the downtown side.

7:30 p.m. $5 but no one turned away for inability to pay; perhaps 
others can chip in a little extra.

Schedule for the next three months is on the website at 
<http://www.sbcds.org/ecd/>.
-- 
Gary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:47:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:47:45 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Tonight
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020220004745.7CD2867CB-AT-
generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It would be very helpful if people making announcements like this
could put *in the subject line* some indication of where on earth
the event is - city?  state?  *country*???

(In this case it wasn't anywhere in the announcement, either....)

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:58:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:57:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dance Tonight
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEGRRKOUBS9G2K88-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Susan wrote:

> It would be very helpful if people making announcements like this
> could put *in the subject line* some indication of where on earth
> the event is - city?  state?  *country*???

Quite right.

> (In this case it wasn't anywhere in the announcement, either....)

I'm informed  this was meant to go to the local announcement list and not
to the ECD list.  The dance is in Santa Barbara, California, USA.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:01:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:01:18 -0800
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Tonight [not in your area]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p0510030bb898a42fb197-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20020220004745.7CD2867CB-AT-
generalist.org>

So sorry! That message was sent to this universal ECD list by 
mistake. It has subsequently been sent to the email list for ECD in 
Santa Barbara, California, which was the original intent. If you 
would like to get those announcements (usually a little more in 
advance), sign up for our email list by sending a blank email to 
sbfed-subscribe-AT-
egroups.com.

At 7:47 PM -0500, on 2/19/02, Susan X. wrote:
>It would be very helpful if people making announcements like this
>could put *in the subject line* some indication of where on earth
>the event is - city?  state?  *country*???
>
>(In this case it wasn't anywhere in the announcement, either....)

-- 
Gary D. Shapiro
Primate
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:38:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:37:08 -0500
From: SUSAN B BOOKER <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Tonight -another suggestion for clarification
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002a01c1b9bf$e0776e20$8c02ffd1-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It would also be helpful if list posters would use their complete names (or
locations, if preferred) in either their signatures or the "From:" line.  A
number of us share given names, and our identities can be easily confused by
those who don't know us personally.

Susan Booker
 in Lexington, Ky,
trying to avoid identity crises of all kinds...

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:53:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:57:13 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: on topic, because I'll be dancing when it happens??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <00e401c1b9d3$7265d980$cd394b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20020218.215733.-104927.7.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Dawn C. Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>

> Ah, someone else who read Heinlein's "Time for the Stars" at an
> early age.

<<Add my name to the list--I was a big fan of Heinlein in 5th & 6th grade.>>

Me too. Right up until I hit puberty in 1962 or so -- from the evidence of
his books, that's about when Heinlein hit it too.

Peace,
Paul

PS Just to bring this faintly on-topic: Heinlein doesn't seem to have
mentioned ECD or anything like it, but Isaac Asimov, in one of his robot
stories, has one of his heroes describing a bunch of robots performing odd,
complicated maneuvers in an asteroid-mining tunnel, say "That looks like a
Virginia Reel -- and Dave's a majordomo, or I'll eat my hat." (Slightly
paraphrased through the dimness of memory.)

A Virginia Reel, of course, is more-or-less a contra -- but we're getting
close.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:14:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:14:16 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Posting Locations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020220081032.00a51360-AT-
mhtc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_RBfSnwjTB77SvDN2fUOTuQ)"


--Boundary_(ID_RBfSnwjTB77SvDN2fUOTuQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Even for postings only to our local group, we always include the full 
address.  We have visitors from Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and 
elsewhere they occassionally respond.  It also gives newcomers a clearer 
idea of where a dance is held (we are not always at the same place).  I do 
travel and it is nice to know if a dance is meeting nearby.

So please...even to your local groups, a full address...city, state...would 
be very helpful.


Madison Wisconsin English Country Dancing

The Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dance Society meets
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM.

Dancing
         October through May at the Wilmar Center,
                 953 Jenifer St., Madison, Wisconsin
         June through September in front of Memorial Library,
                 University of Wisconsin-Madison,
For more information, contact
         Mike (mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),
         Jean (608-231-1040) or
         Don (608-238-9951)
Website
images
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm
no images
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm

--Boundary_(ID_RBfSnwjTB77SvDN2fUOTuQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html>
Even for postings only to our local group, we always include the full
address.&nbsp; We have visitors from Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, and
elsewhere they occassionally respond.&nbsp; It also gives newcomers a
clearer idea of where a dance is held (we are not always at the same
place).&nbsp; I do travel and it is nice to know if a dance is meeting
nearby.<br><br>
So please...even to your local groups, a full address...city,
state...would be very helpful.<br><br>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<b>Madison Wisconsin English Country Dancing<br><br>
</b><i>The Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dance Society meets<br>
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM. <br>
&nbsp;<br>
Dancing <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>October
through May at the Wilmar Center, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>953
Jenifer St., Madison, Wisconsin<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>June
through September in front of Memorial Library, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>University
of Wisconsin-Madison,<br>
For more information, contact<br>
&nbsp;</i><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><i>Mike
(mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Jean
(608-231-1040) or <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Don
(608-238-9951)<br>
</i>Website <br>
images<br>
<b><a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm</a><br>
</b>no images<br>
<b><a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/hometext.htm</a><br>
</b></html>

--Boundary_(ID_RBfSnwjTB77SvDN2fUOTuQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:55:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:45:15 -0500
From: Terry Gaffney <gaff-AT-
research.neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Ball Workshop in Boston
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a04320402b89963d0c18a-AT-
[129.10.174.107]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear Friends,

Those of you within driving distance of Boston Ma. may be interested 
in our Playford Ball workshop which we are having this Sunday 
afternoon 2-5.  This is a chance to work on the dances that will be 
on next week's ball program with Helene Cornelius and a bunch of 
experienced dancers from all over New England. ( You don't have to be 
on the ball list to come.) Jacqueline Schwab will provide the music . 
Those readers who have been to a First Friday dance know how special 
those dances can be with Jacqueline as soloist.

The event will be at the Park Avenue Church in Arlington, driving 
directions can be found at our web site www.cds-boston.org.

Best,
  Terry
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:00:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:00:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Tonight
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020220150035.71112.qmail-AT-
web13605.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


--- Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org> wrote:
> It would be very helpful if people making announcements like this
> could put *in the subject line* some indication of where on earth
> the event is - city?  state?  *country*???
> 
> (In this case it wasn't anywhere in the announcement, either....)

And those doing paper fliers of events should also take note.  I've
probably been guilty of that lapse myself out of forgetfulness, but
it's worth bearing in mind that paper fliers can travel far outside
your home community (especially if you are bringing them to NEFFA),
where something like "27 St. Ronan St." does not immediately identify
to all readers that this is the local dance in South Edgerton, West
Virgnia.

B.

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:34:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:33:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CDW February Dance Party
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20020220153359.99606.qmail-AT-
web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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The Fabulous February Party of Country Dancers of
Westchester is at 8pm, Friday, February 22, at the
Church in the Highlands at the corner of Bryant &
Grandview Avenues, White Plains, NY.

Gene Murrow and Henry Chapin are emcees for the party
with music by Margaret Ann Martin and Friends -- Betsy

Blachly-Chapin, Marnen Laibow-Koser, Henry, and Gene. 
The dance will feature great dances from Playford
publications (dated from 1651-on...).

Admission is $10.00 for CDW members; others pay
$12.00.

Directions to the Church in the Highlands; the Spring,
2002, schedule; and other CDW information are
available at our website:
 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2225/
 
White Plains is a 30-minute rail trip on Metro North's
Harlem Line from Grand Central Terminal in New York
City. There's frequent service, and Bluebell will meet
trains arriving at White Plains station. Anyone
needing a ride in Bluebell must call Susan Murrow
beforehand at (914) 762-8619 to make arrangements.

For more information, call Susan or  Leah Barkan
at (914) 693-5577.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:43:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:43:20 -0500
From: "Algon, Jacqueline M." <jacqueline_algon-AT-
merck.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: CDW February Dance Party
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <0BDEFA83FD3CD511900B00508BE38D4401C67D08-AT-
usrymx07.merck.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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dearest herald,
just a love note to tell you that i adore you.  if only the cdw could see
you heralding 'good bye' at the door in your red jacket....  ah, well,
that's best reserved for eyes only.  in fact, mine.  only.

have fun at the game tonight.  i miss you and it's only noon.
kisses
moi

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Andersen [mailto:cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:34 AM
To: ECD List
Subject: CDW February Dance Party


 
The Fabulous February Party of Country Dancers of
Westchester is at 8pm, Friday, February 22, at the
Church in the Highlands at the corner of Bryant &
Grandview Avenues, White Plains, NY.

Gene Murrow and Henry Chapin are emcees for the party
with music by Margaret Ann Martin and Friends -- Betsy

Blachly-Chapin, Marnen Laibow-Koser, Henry, and Gene. 
The dance will feature great dances from Playford
publications (dated from 1651-on...).

Admission is $10.00 for CDW members; others pay
$12.00.

Directions to the Church in the Highlands; the Spring,
2002, schedule; and other CDW information are
available at our website:
 http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2225/
 
White Plains is a 30-minute rail trip on Metro North's
Harlem Line from Grand Central Terminal in New York
City. There's frequent service, and Bluebell will meet
trains arriving at White Plains station. Anyone
needing a ride in Bluebell must call Susan Murrow
beforehand at (914) 762-8619 to make arrangements.

For more information, call Susan or  Leah Barkan
at (914) 693-5577.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:41:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:47:38 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: As many as will - REALLY?
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200202201639_MC3-F2E2-E685-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm going through Cecil Sharp's Country Dance Book III. It contains a
number of dances labeled 'for as many as will', but consisting of several
parts, of which several are duple minor progressive.

I suspect that some of our sets for four couples (like Nonesuch) could
easily fit into that pattern where the progressive parts are done 'to the
last' in those 'for as many as will' - as we do it in Dargason. 
Convention and/or recordings have limited us to a specific number of
couples per set, live music can treat the dances differently.

Keller/Shimer only contains one of these dances (Amarillis). The multi-part
longways in CDB III I don't recall having danced at all, or at least not in
a loooooooong time.

So, I wonder about the other dancers on the ECD list and their experience
and/or recollection. How DO you do these dances:
 The Friar and the Nun
 Amarillis
 Bobbing Joe
 Catching of Fleas
 The Irish Lady
 Irish Trot
or do you do them at all?

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:34:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:34:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: RE: CDW February Dance Party]
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20020220233430.34690.qmail-AT-
web12205.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Now that's what I call public affirmation!

[Aside to the equally adored Jackie: I'm wearing my
red coat to the game! And let's let this post be the
end of our PDA.]

> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: CDW February Dance Party
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:43:20 -0500
> From: "Algon, Jacqueline M."
> <jacqueline_algon-AT-
merck.com>
> Reply-To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'"
> <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> 
> dearest herald,
> just a love note to tell you that i adore you.  if
> only the cdw could see
> you heralding 'good bye' at the door in your red
> jacket....  ah, well,
> that's best reserved for eyes only.  in fact, mine. 
> only.
> 
> have fun at the game tonight.  i miss you and it's
> only noon.
> kisses
> moi


=====
Carl E. Andersen, C.D.W. Herald
* This information about Country Dancers of Westchester is sent to you because we believe you are interested in knowing about our activities. If you prefer not to receive future notices, please reply asking to be removed from our list of addressees. Know anyone who'd like to receive these notices? Send us their e-mail addresses! *

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:36:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:35:23 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sad News
To: David Bradley <davidbradley-AT-
beeb.net>
Message-ID: <007f01c1ba6f$bb655100$7f0f86d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Phyllis Gilford, aged 90 years, died last Saturday. The funeral will be 11th
March at Eastbourne Crematorium  at 1.45 pm. She was well known as the Hon
Rep for the EFDSS in the South East (and assisted Brian Heaton when a field
officer), Aston University, and Seaford/ Newhaven are for the "Friends and
Neighbours".



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:33:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:33:36 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Goodbye
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Organic Gardening <OGL-AT-
LSV.UKY.EDU>, Scottish Dance <strathspey-AT-
strathspey.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1ba88$8bddc4d0$b8b6c843-AT-
MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Owing to unsatisfactory service from our ISP, I'm leaving the dance and
gardening lists for awhile.

Pat
Charlottesville, Virginia USA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:01:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:01:44 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: in honor of the numerical convergence today
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100302b89a2f9b5bf6-AT-
[140.186.54.203]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <a04320402b89963d0c18a-AT-
[129.10.174.107]>

Two tutors who tooted the flute
Tried to tutor two Tudors to toot.
                 Said the two to the tutors,
                 "Is it better to toot,
Or to tutor two Tudors to toot?"
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:18:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:12:04 -0500
From: Gary Roodman <groodman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sound Clips from the Old Friends CD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220113510.01d47580-AT-
mail.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Dear Dance Friends,

         I thought that you might like to know that I have just launched a 
new Calculated Figures web site.  There is information there about my books 
and about the Old Friends CD.  I have also put up the instructions and 
music for one of my newer dances, “Turning By Threes”, which I am hoping 
that people will begin trying. The site is at

                      http//home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm

         On the Old Friends page, you will find

1.  A SOUND CLIP FOR EACH CUT.  The sound quality, as you will see, is not 
great, but you will get a pretty good idea of what is on the CD.

2.  REVIEWS OF THE CD.  Knowledgeable people have been saying good things 
about the CD, and we have taken the liberty of bragging just bit.

3.   A FULL-COLOR PICTURE OF THE FABULOUS MUSICIANS: Daniel Beerbohm, 
Barbara Greenberg, Jonathan Jensen, Mary Lea, Margaret Ann Martin, and Gene 
Murrow.  As you look at the talented people in the photo, you will be able 
to see creativity just radiating from their smiles.

         Here are the dances on the CD:  Audrey and Andrea, Benjamin’s 
Birth Day, Cadgers’ Other Caper, Fine Lady of Homewood, Good Man of 
Cambridge, The Homecoming, Laisteridge Lane, Marching to Praetorius, A New 
Beginning, Old Friends, A Retiring Fellow, Sarah, Trip to the Manors, True 
Kit, Twenty Something, Winter Dreams, and The Wrights of Lichfield.

         Also on the web site is information about  how to order the CD 
from me or from  the other sources that are stocking it, how to order the 
accompanying Old Friends book, and how to order any of my Calculated 
Figures books.

         I hope that you will go to the site for a visit–no admission 
charge, no obligation.

Best regards,

Gary


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:27:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:27:32 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sound Clips from the Old Friends CD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C752E02.3E08324F-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020220113510.01d47580-AT-
mail.earthlink.net>

Gary,
your website looks great!  
all:  please note that the url is missing a colon.  s/b:  http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm

--Deb

Gary Roodman wrote:
> 
> Dear Dance Friends,
> 
>          I thought that you might like to know that I have just launched a
> new Calculated Figures web site.  There is information there about my books
> and about the Old Friends CD.  I have also put up the instructions and
> music for one of my newer dances, “Turning By Threes”, which I am hoping
> that people will begin trying. The site is at
> 
>                       http//home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:38:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:33:14 -0500
From: Gary Roodman <groodman-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CORRECT ADDRESS for Old Friends Sound Clips
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221123004.01d46ec0-AT-
mail.earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear Dance Friends,

         Ted Crane has just brought to my attention the fact that there is 
a small typo in the web address (the : is omitted).  Here is the right one.

http://home.earthlink.net/~groodman/index.htm

         Sorry.

Gary


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:13:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:12:01 -0800 (PST)
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Real Princess
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202212012.g1LKC1R27347-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I have a question about musical notation for Pat Shaw's dance and tune
*The Real Princess* (which I in fact called the other night in
memorium...).  Both in Barnes and the Pat Shaw Collection, the 16-bar B
is written out, but there seems to be the two dots at the beginning of
the B that indicate a repeat.  There is no repeat sign at the end of the
B, and if there were, it wouldn't fit the dance.  Is this a mere typo,
or does it indicate something?  

On another front, if any callers out there have good words to use to
describe the B1 in real time (no pun allowed, since the tune is a jig),
or an effective teaching strategy, I'd love to hear about it.  

                                    Tom
Tom Roby                                      Department of Math & CS
metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu                 California State University
[Fax] 510-885-4314,4169                       25800 Carlos Bee Blvd.
[Off] 510-885-2691,3591                       Hayward, CA 945423092
                   http://seki.csuhayward.edu 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:34:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:33:21 -0800 (PST)
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202212033.g1LKXL127384-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I'm puzzled by the modern directions for the dance *Hey, Boys, Up Go
We*.  (In fact, in this rare case, I think the original Playford is
clearer, but I'm not enough of a scholar to be sure.)  I'm looking at
the Keller/Shimer *Playford Ball* p.46, where the dance (for two couples
facing) begins with forward a double and back twice.  Then comes the B1
(and I quote briefly):

> B1  1-4	 Men gipsy with opposite women, facing out, clockwise
> B1  5-8	 Men gypsy with same women, facing in, counter-clockwise. 
> B2  1-8	 Repeat B1 with partners.

I don't have any idea what to make of "facing out" and "facing in".  If
I could just eliminate those phrases, I think it makes perfect sense.  

Of course the original name of the dance and tune, as *PB* makes
delightfully clear, is "Cuckolds All a Row* and somewhere along the way
Sharp got confused about the name.  Looking at the facsimile from
Playford that they provide, we have a B that is certainly well outside
copywrite restrictions:

> Turn back to back with the Co.We. Faces again, go about the Co.We. not
> turning your Faces * Turn back to back to your own, Faces again, go
> above your own not turning Faces : 

Since I'm more likely to get responses from gentle readers if I make a
hypothesis which can be shredded by Those Who Know, I speculate (not
even conjecture) that this might mean in modern language:

B1   1-2 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face out (back to back with opposite).
     2-4 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face your opposite.
     5-8 Gypsy opposite.
B2   1-8 Repeat B1 with partners.

To do this I guess that "above" is a typo for "about".  

But perhaps "Turn back to back" has a well-known meaning by comparison
with other dances?  

So I'm interested in two questions really: 

(1) How have modern dancers and dance leaders interpreted "facing out"
    and "facing in" in actual practice?  

(2) What are the most likely possible interpretations of the original?  

Apologies if this kind of posting is outside the pervue of this list.  

                                    Tom
Tom Roby                                      Department of Math & CS
metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu                 California State University
[Fax] 510-885-4314,4169                       25800 Carlos Bee Blvd.
[Off] 510-885-2691,3591                       Hayward, CA 945423092
                   http://seki.csuhayward.edu 
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:35:03 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Longest Journey?
To: ECD-AT-
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Hello Bruce!

We never saw you leaving Halsway, but hope you had a good journey home.
We also hope you enjoyed the weekend with Andrew and Belshazzar's
Feast - we think it's the best weekend of dance that we've been to yet.
About 20 people stayed on on Sunday night - we failed to get the pub,
but had a 3 hour discussion on why we English don't change partners as
much as other nationalities.  I think that gave Moniek and Phillippe
some reasons they never knew even existed!

So, I was just wondering if you now hold the record for the distance
travelled to only dance, or if not - who, when and where is the record?

Happy travelling and dancing,
Trev & Gill



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:08:39 PST
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:55:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEJCBRQLAW9FXD0R-AT-
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Tom wrote:

Taking the last first:

> Apologies if this kind of posting is outside the pervue of this list.

Unless this was in fact a gentle dig at the recent spate of off-topic postings,
in which case I merely larf, let me assure Tom that this kind of posting is 
exactly what I had in mind when I started the list.

> I'm puzzled by the modern directions for the dance *Hey, Boys, Up Go
> We*.  (In fact, in this rare case, I think the original Playford is
> clearer, but I'm not enough of a scholar to be sure.)  I'm looking at
> the Keller/Shimer *Playford Ball* p.46, where the dance (for two couples
> facing) begins with forward a double and back twice.  Then comes the B1
> (and I quote briefly):

> > B1  1-4	 Men gipsy with opposite women, facing out, clockwise
> > B1  5-8	 Men gypsy with same women, facing in, counter-clockwise.
> > B2  1-8	 Repeat B1 with partners.

> I don't have any idea what to make of "facing out" and "facing in".  If
> I could just eliminate those phrases, I think it makes perfect sense.

> (1) How have modern dancers and dance leaders interpreted "facing out"
>     and "facing in" in actual practice?

A quite colourable interpretation which Bob Fraley teaches (and which can be
found on the BACDS Playford Ball website this year;
http://www.bacds.org/playford/ will eventually get you there) is to make the
"facing out" gypsy be a back gypsy and the facing in gypsy be a front gypsy.

(Describing a back gypsy is difficult.  Let's see - same track as gypsy, but
you travel looking at your vis-a-vis over your right shoulder rather than
turning your whole body to face.  Tough on the neck, but kind of sexy move,
which builds up tension that's then released when you do the front gypsy the
other way.)

I've seen other interpretations that, as you suggested, just drop the "facing
out" and "facing in" and do normal gypsies, which of course works fine as well.


> (2) What are the most likely possible interpretations of the original?

Do you mean, what is the editor of Playford most likely to have really meant? 
I can't even come close to an authoritative answer to that.  I will say that I
don't think "facing out" and "facing in" were meant to be ignored, so any
interpretation that doesn't account for that is probably wrong.  I think a case
can be made for the back gypsy / front gypsy interpretation, but I'd hesitate
to say it was correct, especially (standard disclaimer coming) as we don't know
what footwork they were using and what effect that might have had on the
figures.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:26:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:26:16 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100301b89b140cd47c-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
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>I'm puzzled by the modern directions for the dance *Hey, Boys, Up Go
>We*.  (In fact, in this rare case, I think the original Playford is
>clearer, but I'm not enough of a scholar to be sure.)  I'm looking at
>the Keller/Shimer *Playford Ball* p.46, where the dance (for two couples
>facing) begins with forward a double and back twice.  Then comes the B1
>(and I quote briefly):
>
>>  B1  1-4	 Men gipsy with opposite women, facing out, clockwise
>>  B1  5-8	 Men gypsy with same women, facing in, counter-clockwise.
>>  B2  1-8	 Repeat B1 with partners.
>
>I don't have any idea what to make of "facing out" and "facing in".  If
>I could just eliminate those phrases, I think it makes perfect sense.

Think R-shoulder for facing out, L-shoulder for facing in.  In the 
R-shoulder gypsy, your body faces out, but your head is turned over 
your R-shoulder so that the two of you can make eye-contact.  In the 
L-shoulder, counterclockwise gypsy you face each other directly, with 
no over-the-shoulder coyness; it's a bolder-feeling move.

Boy, it's easier to dance than to describe!

Hugs,
Sharon Greeen
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:01:18 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Where is it NOW?
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
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About cataloguing and filing dance materials...
Are there any other nifty suggestions out there aside from FileMaker and
Hypercard? I'm inundated with stuff on different recording and print media
and only want to do the mammoth job ONCE! What works for you?

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:29:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:15:27 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
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Hi Tom -
'gypsy outward' with your opposite describes a walk-around in eight steps
clockwise where you look at each other over right shoulders and where those
shoulders almost touch.
'gypsy inward' resembles the beginning of Sharp siding, but goes all the
way around counterclockwise with that same person. 

A good thing to remember in the three parts of the dance is that the A part
ALWAYS starts with your partner, the B part NEVER. 
A lot of stuff goes into the 54 seconds that the dance takes to do......

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

 
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Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:34:14 PST
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:15:27 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 3 hours of changing partners
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
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Pray tell, Trevor -
what ARE those reasons why you folks don't change partners as readily as
folks elsewhere? Three hours worth - that should yield some interesting
perspectives.....
As far as travelling far for 'just' dancing: lots of us do exactly that!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:42:51 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C7569DB.C7AF8B0B-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <200202212033.g1LKXL127384-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu>

Tom Roby wrote (in part):

> B1  1-4        Men gipsy with opposite women, facing out, clockwise
> B1  5-8        Men gypsy with same women, facing in,
counter-clockwise.

This was taught for many years on the right coast as follows:

1-4. Pass opposites by right shoulders (very slightly so that you can
still ogle each other) to gipsy clockwise.
5-8. Meet opposites by left shoulders to gypsy counterclockwise.

Both gipsies are quite tight. The shoulder lines (left to right) of the
contraries are parallel and the dancers are offset so that the line
between the joints of the passing shoulders is perpendicular to the
parallels. One picture would be worth a thousand words here.
Outrageously flirty if done well.

Incidentally in Part 3 of Cuckolds, the Playford Ball version has
"continue the hey" which is less clear than Playford, which has the men
put the women back again.

Albert
--
Albert Blank
email: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com


================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:46:52 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
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SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Well, really, any decently set up database will work.  It may not 
even need to be relational, depending on how deeply you want to be 
able to retrieve data.  Find one that's not too expensive, I'm sure 
Micro$loth Office must have one suitable for either platform, and 
certainly if need be, one can even create one in WordPerfect.  They 
can all be put out as comma delimited files which means they're all 
transferable to other databases. 
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:51:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: cataloguing and filing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10202211643570.28930-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
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On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Hanny D. Budnick wrote:

> About cataloguing and filing dance materials...
> Are there any other nifty suggestions out there aside from FileMaker and
> Hypercard? I'm inundated with stuff on different recording and print media
> and only want to do the mammoth job ONCE! What works for you?

I use FileMaker databases at both my workplaces to keep track of books,
authors, a choir library, a choir, and a number of mailing lists. (ECD
content: I used it for February Fling registrations when I was registrar.)
It's very versatile and easy to customize; it can export data in formats
that you can import into other databases, spreadsheets, or word processing
programs.  (So you can share your data with others or transfer it to
another format someday if you wish.) You can create your own layouts for
printing info. (e.g. on dance cards or on lists) or viewing it on the
screen.  I recommend the program highly, but your mileage may vary.

--Susie Lorand
  ECD musician, editor, and choir librarian
  (and unconnected with FileMaker except as a satisfied user)

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:41:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEJEQDJMEA9FXD0R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hanny wrote:

> About cataloguing and filing dance materials...
> Are there any other nifty suggestions out there aside from FileMaker and
> Hypercard? I'm inundated with stuff on different recording and print media
> and only want to do the mammoth job ONCE! What works for you?

I am not remotely sure that we need a database system for this kind of thing,
and am very uncomfortable with suggestions of proprietary packages, however 
good, like FileMaker and HyperCard.  (And those InternalCaps always bug me.)

What I use for "dance cards" are individual ASCII files.  These have a lot of
advantages: they can be served by a webserver, emailed to people, cut and
pasted into an evening program, etc, etc, and I could just use FTP to transfer
the whole lot of them to a completely different system, where they'd still be
useful.  (They're on VMS now, but could be on Unix, NT, or whatever.)  I can
search them using text-based tools (SEARCH on VMS, _grep_ on Unix), index them
using web-based index utilities, etc.  And if I cut a CD that's actually
physically readable in twenty years, odds are good that ASCII files can still
be interpreted, while poor that 20-year-old versions of FileMaker can be.

Have a directory called, for example, /holdings.  Subdirectories in here can 
be for each kind of holding, thus:

              /holdings
                 /dancebooks
                 /dancenotes
                 /tunebooks
                 /recordings
                    /tapes
                      /reel
                      /cassette
                      /8track
                    /CD


The entry for a dance-book like "Additional Calculated Figures" would be 
creating the file /holdings/dancebooks/additional_calculated_figures.txt 
which would look like 

   Title: Additional Calculated Figures
   Author: Gary Roodman
   Publication info: whatever it is.
   Location: Alice's left foot, near the fender (or upstairs bookcase)
   Note: Includes instructions and tunes.
   Contents:  A New Beginning (Formation: 3-cpl longways, Key:Bb Barnes:No) 
   The Dancing Wife (Formation: duple-minor longways, Key:D Barnes:No)
              etc.

You're now equipped for almost any form of retrieval you might want to do.
(This doesn't easily let you answer the question "how many different dances do
I own copies of the instructions for", but I don't think that's an interesting
question.  It does let you easily answer "which book is Chocolate Round-O in
and do I have a recording and where is it?" which is a more typical question
when you're putting a program together.

If you end up moving everything from the upstairs bookcase into filing cabinets
downstairs, you can do a global search and replace from 'upstairs bookcase' to 
'filing cabinet downstairs' using system-provided tools.

This structure will work on VMS, Unix, Mac, and Windows NT/2000 (using NTFS or
HPFS).  It'll still work, but not so well, on Windows versions that limit you
to 8.3 filenames.

Don't imagine I've been organized enough to enter all my holdings this way, 
but I make good use of text-based search and retrieval tunes for dance
instructions, and this is more of the same.

-- Alan




===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:45:22 PST
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:45:15 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: gypsy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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So, looking at all this discussion that centers on this "gypsy" 
thing - can anyone tell me the origin of the term and/or the
figure?  Did Cecil Sharp just make it up?  I've never seen it
outside a MECD context, although admittedly my interest in
country dance history fades violently after 1830ish.

I dance Cuckolds w/o any "gypsy" figure, but that'll be a different
post....

Susan
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:16:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I'm used to the "turn back to back" part being done as a do-si-do.  I've 
no justification for this other than the linguistic connection between 
"back to back" and "do-si-do".  Does anyone know how old either do-si-do 
or gypsy are as dance terms?

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:35:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:28:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEJNQJ6PCU9FXD0R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Mary Railing wrote:

> I'm used to the "turn back to back" part being done as a do-si-do.  I've
> no justification for this other than the linguistic connection between
> "back to back" and "do-si-do".  Does anyone know how old either do-si-do
> or gypsy are as dance terms?

In my attempt to discover how recently we went around about this the last time,
I tried using the web interface to search the ECD archive.  It's broken.  
I don't have time to fix it now.  (I don't mean "now", tonight; I mean "now",
before the middle of March.)  Sorry about that, everybody.

Okay, so the state of play from previous discussions on the "gypsy" part of
this discussion:

Rich Galloway pointed out in 1999 that Sharp himself never wrote "gypsy"; he
always used "whole gyp."  "Gypsy" apparently shows up first in "Maggot Pie",
1932.  I'm not clear how far "Gyp" goes back, but it's in morris-dancing
instructions collected c. 1901.

There's some thought that the figure name derives from its appearance in 
"The Spanish Jeepsie", a Playford dance reconstructed by Bernard Bentley and
published in the Fallibroome series.  There's language there which might be
describing what we think of as a gypsy (orbiting the other person face to face)
or might be describing what we think of as a back-to-back.  (It says "turning
not their faces", but it isn't clear whether that's "facing in the same
direction throughout" [yields back-to-back] or "turning not their faces one
from another" [yields gypsy].)

As to do-si-do, don't get me started.  There are as many different things
called some variant of do-si-do (do-sa-do, do-pass-oh, mountain do-si-do) as
there are allemandes, and that's a lot.  With no basis whatsoever, I suspect 
we'll find dos a dos (insert accents to taste) in 18th-century French dance
books.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:16:52 -0800
From: Mary Luckhardt <mary-AT-
luckhardt.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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On 2/21/02 12:33 PM Tom Roby said:

>> Turn back to back with the Co.We. Faces again, go about the Co.We. not
>> turning your Faces * Turn back to back to your own, Faces again, go
>> above your own not turning Faces : 
>
>Since I'm more likely to get responses from gentle readers if I make a
>hypothesis which can be shredded by Those Who Know, I speculate (not
>even conjecture) that this might mean in modern language:
>
>B1   1-2 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face out (back to back with 
>opposite).
>     2-4 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face your opposite.
>     5-8 Gypsy opposite.
>B2   1-8 Repeat B1 with partners.
>
>To do this I guess that "above" is a typo for "about".  

The Newcastle Country Dancers, a peasant troop at the California Ren 
Faires for a very long time, (cf Doug Berger somewhere in the List 
archives when it's up again) did Cuckolds on stage when I danced with 
them in the later '80's.  We did the dance very boistrously, and we did 
the figure in question exactly as Tom describes it in modern language:  A 
big step-and-swivel to back to back (Think forming the back hand ring in 
Fair Quaker), and step-and-swivel to face.  We then did the gypsy with a 
slipping step, and repeated the whole thing with partners.  We'd 
sometimes bump butts out of the back to back, or seem to.

This was always a favorite for me, but given the anemic way we dance it 
in CDSS style (I've never cared for the awkward front and back gypsies), 
it lost its appeal.  Anybody want to join me in a guerrilla set at the 
BACDS ball?

Mary
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:17:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:22:25 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*  AKA "faces again"
To: ECD-AT-
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>  Tom asked re gypsy in "Hey Boys Up Go We"

> > (2) What are the most likely possible interpretations of the original?

  Well, the original doesn't say anything about facing out and facing in 
and it doesnt' say gypsy.  It says

"Turn back to back with the contrary women.  Faces again, go about the 
contrary women not turning your faces.  Turn back to back with your 
own.  Faces again, go above your own, not turning faces."

  I've been taught 11 different versions of this figure, all some variant 
of back to backs and gypsies, similar to those described in other people's 
posts.  Sharon's version with the gypsy facing out is pretty common, but I 
don't beleive in it, -- its an awkward move which never appears in any 
other Playford dance, and it doesn't fit the words Playford used.

Most promising, in my opinion, is a back to back followed by a gypsy, first 
with opposite, then with partner.  THis is done by some people as a right 
b-t-b and left gypsy with each and by others with a left b-t-b and right 
gypsy with partner.  Playford doesn't say.  But the b-t-b and gypsy combo 
doesn't account for the weird words "Faces again."

It seems to me that if a back to back was wanted in the first bit of this, 
it would say so. When Playford wants you to perform a back to back he says 
"GO back to back."  So TURN back to back must mean something else, possibly 
just "Turn your back on your opposite."  Then face your opposite " ("faces 
again").  The "Go about the contrary women not turning your faces" sounds 
like what we call a gypsy-- dance around your opposite keeping your face 
toward the person you are dancing around.

I would prefer to dance a back to back and gypsy rather than just stand 
there back to back for half a phrase of music. BUt you asked what I thought 
the ORIGINAL meant, and that's what I think.

Victoria, in Seattle





There are no shoulder directions (left or right) in the original so going 
the other way is an option, giving rise to some of the variants.



Victoria

Victoria Bestock



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From: Dfhart24-AT-
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Subject: Playford Party, 2/23, Old Deerfield, Massachusetts
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Also this Saturday, 2/23, in the historic village of Old Deerfield, near the 
Connecticut river between Northampton and Greenfield is Cammy's Annual 
Playford Party


Dear dance friends,
Don't Miss This Once a Year Event! 
As I said before, the sap is flowing, the Snowdrops are up, and the Barred 
owls are feeding their young.
Spring will be here any day and the only way that you can properly honor such 
events is to make
your appearance at my February 23 Playford Party.

Love and Peace, Cammy

Details:
This is the information about my annual Playford Party held for nearly 20 
years in the Amherst MA area. This "Party differs from the typical "Ball" in 
that you need not know the dances, newcomers are welcomed, and the afternoon 
dance is an english dance in its own right and not a warm up for the evening. 
There may be little or no overlap in repertoire. The dances and music are 
mostly from the 17th century or of that style. 

Date: Saturday February 23 
Event: 17th Century Playford Party 
Band: Mad Robin - Cammy Kaynor, Van Kaynor, and Lila Feingold 
Location: Old Deerfield, MA, White Church Community Hall, Memorial St. 
Time: 2 sessions - 3-6PM = Informal Playford Dance, 8-11PM = Dress-up Dance 
Donations: Suggested $10/session, $15 for both 

There will be a POT-LUCK refreshments table in the evening. Dinner should be 
sought in nearby Greenfield or South Deerfield. 
Newcomers and Sit-in Musicians (baroque sounding instruments) welcome 

If you feel you need additional information about the dance (directions, 
suggestions about supper places, etc....) email me before 5PM Friday: 
Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
Biogen.com, 781-324-7355, or 
Vankaynor-AT-
aol.com, 413-549-1913 

--Boundary_(ID_XlzCwDbkCIGoyMRzCGlEJw)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3><B>Also this Saturday, 2/23, in the historic village of Old Deerfield, near the Connecticut river between Northampton and Greenfield is Cammy's Annual Playford Party
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Dear dance friends,
<BR>Don't Miss This Once a Year Event! 
<BR>As I said before, the sap is flowing, the Snowdrops are up, and the Barred owls are feeding their young.
<BR>Spring will be here any day and the only way that you can properly honor such events is to make
<BR>your appearance at my February 23 Playford Party.
<BR>
<BR>Love and Peace, Cammy
<BR>
<BR>Details:
<BR>This is the information about my annual Playford Party held for nearly 20 years in the Amherst MA area. This "Party differs from the typical "Ball" in that you need not know the dances, newcomers are welcomed, and the afternoon dance is an english dance in its own right and not a warm up for the evening. There may be little or no overlap in repertoire. The dances and music are mostly from the 17th century or of that style. 
<BR>
<BR>Date: Saturday February 23 
<BR>Event: 17th Century Playford Party 
<BR>Band: Mad Robin - Cammy Kaynor, Van Kaynor, and Lila Feingold 
<BR>Location: Old Deerfield, MA, White Church Community Hall, Memorial St. 
<BR>Time: 2 sessions - 3-6PM = Informal Playford Dance, 8-11PM = Dress-up Dance 
<BR>Donations: Suggested $10/session, $15 for both 
<BR>
<BR>There will be a POT-LUCK refreshments table in the evening. Dinner should be sought in nearby Greenfield or South Deerfield. 
<BR>Newcomers and Sit-in Musicians (baroque sounding instruments) welcome 
<BR>
<BR>If you feel you need additional information about the dance (directions, suggestions about supper places, etc....) email me before 5PM Friday: 
<BR>Campbell_Kaynor-AT-
Biogen.com, 781-324-7355, or 
<BR>Vankaynor-AT-
aol.com, 413-549-1913 </B></FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_XlzCwDbkCIGoyMRzCGlEJw)--
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 01:50:38 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
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Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>

<<Don't imagine I've been organized enough to enter all my holdings this
way,
but I make good use of text-based search and retrieval tunes for dance
instructions, and this is more of the same.>>

Search and retrieval tunes? Hmm..."Searching for Lambs" comes to mind.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:09:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>

> <<Don't imagine I've been organized enough to enter all my holdings this
> way,
> but I make good use of text-based search and retrieval tunes for dance
> instructions, and this is more of the same.>>

> Search and retrieval tunes? Hmm..."Searching for Lambs" comes to mind.

"Where, oh where, has my little dog gone . . . "

Actually, I've been typing words that are vaguely homonyms of what I meant - 
good well-formed words that don't look like typos and wouldn't trip off a
spelling checker - more and more the last couple of weeks.  Sometimes I catch
'em, sometimes not.  Probably just stress, but could be a sign of neurological
dysfunction, I suppose.

Weirdly, it's only typing - not speech.

I meant "tools", of course.

-- Alan (not kidding, but off topic)



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:20:48 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:20:41 -0800
From: Robin Cohen <rcohen-AT-
idiom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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The Merrie Pryanksters, another dance troupe from the California 
Renaissance Faires, did the back to back and "gyp" (pronounced with a hard 
"g") the same way that Mary describes below.  They also had an interesting 
alternate B1 part, which involves twisting one's torso 3/4 around.

This description is from their web site:

" B1:  Face your opposite, turn over your outside shoulder, blow a kiss to 
your partner, gyp your opposite.
        End gyp facing your partner, turn over the outside shoulder, blow a 
kiss to your opposite, gyp your partner "

Robin

At 09:16 PM 02/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:


>On 2/21/02 12:33 PM Tom Roby said:
>
> >> Turn back to back with the Co.We. Faces again, go about the Co.We. not
> >> turning your Faces * Turn back to back to your own, Faces again, go
> >> above your own not turning Faces :
> >
> >Since I'm more likely to get responses from gentle readers if I make a
> >hypothesis which can be shredded by Those Who Know, I speculate (not
> >even conjecture) that this might mean in modern language:
> >
> >B1   1-2 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face out (back to back with
> >opposite).
> >     2-4 Turn 180 degrees on the spot to face your opposite.
> >     5-8 Gypsy opposite.
> >B2   1-8 Repeat B1 with partners.
> >
> >To do this I guess that "above" is a typo for "about".
>
>The Newcastle Country Dancers, a peasant troop at the California Ren
>Faires for a very long time, (cf Doug Berger somewhere in the List
>archives when it's up again) did Cuckolds on stage when I danced with
>them in the later '80's.  We did the dance very boistrously, and we did
>the figure in question exactly as Tom describes it in modern language:  A
>big step-and-swivel to back to back (Think forming the back hand ring in
>Fair Quaker), and step-and-swivel to face.  We then did the gypsy with a
>slipping step, and repeated the whole thing with partners.  We'd
>sometimes bump butts out of the back to back, or seem to.
>
>This was always a favorite for me, but given the anemic way we dance it
>in CDSS style (I've never cared for the awkward front and back gypsies),
>it lost its appeal.  Anybody want to join me in a guerrilla set at the
>BACDS ball?
>
>Mary

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From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
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PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I still keep meaning to write more extensively about Cuckolds, but
failing to find time.  But I *had* to comment on this:

Alan wrote:
>As to do-si-do, don't get me started.  There are as many different things
>called some variant of do-si-do (do-sa-do, do-pass-oh, mountain do-si-do) as
>there are allemandes, and that's a lot.  With no basis whatsoever, I suspect 
>we'll find dos a dos (insert accents to taste) in 18th-century French dance
>books.

In early 19thc manuals (check your Wilsons), you will find exactly as
many do-si-do's as allemandes, because an allemanade *is* a dos-i-do.
It's very carefully diagrammed and described as going in a small
circle around your partner keeping your back turned to them.
Unmistakeable.  The figure-name evolved sometime in the early-mid
19thc.  The Allemande as a Baroque dance is a separate kettle of fish,
and I can't tell you offhand what makes it particularly
Allemande-like.

And actually I may have answered my own question - in one of my sources,
and I am *damned* if I can remember which one (but will try to track it
down tonight), I seem to recall a note that this particular figure can
also be done with partners continuing to face each other and that this is
a charming variation.  First mention of a "gypsy" (if that figure is what
I am vaguely envisioning), albeit under a different name?  

(I strongly disagree that Cuckolds and the other dances with similar
phrasing have modern "gypsy" figures.  But that's that other post.  Soon,
promise...)

Susan


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:28:05 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*  AKA "faces again"
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Dear Victoria,

    I like your emphasis on TURN which seems to lend merit to the
interpretation I cited in my last effusion on this topic.

Paul / Victoria Bestock wrote (in part):

> ...  So TURN back to back must mean something else, ...

Your faithful Albert

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:28:48 -0500
From: Diane Schmit <dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: As many as will - REALLY?
To: ECD-AT-
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At 04:47 PM 2/20/02 , you wrote:
>I'm going through Cecil Sharp's Country Dance Book III. It contains a
>number of dances labeled 'for as many as will', but consisting of several
>parts, of which several are duple minor progressive.
>
...
>So, I wonder about the other dancers on the ECD list and their experience
>and/or recollection. How DO you do these dances:
> The Friar and the Nun
> Amarillis
> Bobbing Joe

We did Bobbing Joe a few times in Baltimore, many, many years ago (80's).
It started as 
a spur of the moment thing to try it out one night (because someone liked
the music), 
so we did it just as Sharp has it. It is 6 progressive parts (with lots of
finger snapping) 
at the end of which everyone is crossed over, and then you do those 6 parts
again 
from the other side of the dance before getting crossed back to begin
again. We 
actually had a lot of fun with this one. But, part of that was due to the
personalities 
& adventurous spirits involved. I have been keeping my eyes open for a chance
to do it again. ;-) It's a bit silly (finger snapping) but not difficult
.... until you finally 
remember what all the figures actually are but then lose your sense of
direction
on the 2nd 6 parts from the other side (and in our case, causing much
laughter).

Diane

dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com
Gaithersburg, MD


> Catching of Fleas
> The Irish Lady
> Irish Trot
>or do you do them at all?
>
>  _-AT-
_      {)/'
> /\ /\_._,<_/
>'  \      /_\
>   />    /<  Hanny
>
>  
> 
================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:23:01 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*  AKA "faces again"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Victoria Bestock wrote:

> It seems to me that if a back to back was wanted in the first bit of 
> this, it would say so. When Playford wants you to perform a back to 
> back he says "GO back to ba

I agree with most of what Vicki wrote, but will (if you'll forgive my 
overblown pedantry) quibble on one point. Cuckolds all a row (Hey, Boys 
Up Go We) is from Playford's first edition (1651), which never uses the 
phrase "go back to back."  In the 3rd edition (1665) we see "Back to 
back with Co." in The New Conceit. But, we don't see the phrase "go back 
to back" until Northern Nancy in the 4th edition (1670). The 5th edition 
adds The Mulberry-Garden, but the phrase does not become common until 
the 6th edition (1679).  This point is important, because it's part of 
the context for interpreting early Playford dances.

Several early Playford dances use a phrase similar to "go about your Co. 
not turning your faces." Sharp interpreted that to mean a "whole gip" 
(i.e. a gypsy).  However, analyses by Barbara Drummed in the late 1980s 
and later by Pat Talbot convincingly demonstrated that this language 
more likely meant what we now call a back to back.  (Unfortunately, I 
don't believe either of them published their work.  Pat did present hers 
in a Pinewoods class she taught several years ago.)

I'll also add that both Barbara Drummed and Pat Talbot offered an 
interpretation of the "turne back to back to the Co. We. faces againe" 
figure in their analyses.  They suggested the backs and faces figure 
that has now been described several times on this list.  I.e., dance in 
an arc on your left diagonal while rotating to your left so that you 
stand back to back with your opposite on about a 45 degree axis. 
 Rotating back to your right, return to place to face your opposite. 
 (Easy to do.  Hard to describe.)

Barbara introduced the backs and faces figure to us in Baltimore in 
teaching her interpretation of The Spanish Jeepsie.  We loved it. 
 Barbara taught it with a sly glance over one's shoulder as you rotate. 
It can be a very flirtatious figure.  I think of it as akin to (side by 
side) siding only with more pivot and less distance.

Getting back to Cucolds all a row ("Hey, Boys Up Go We"), Playford's B 
part probably would be interpreted something like:

B1    1-4    Opposites "backs and faces" (as described above).
        5-8    Opposites back to back.
B1    1-4    Partners "backs and faces."
        5-8    Partners back to back.

Rich Galloway

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:30:46 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:29:45 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
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We experience this kind of typos so often because spell checkers won't 
catch them.  If it is a neurological dysfuction, I suffer from it too. 
 We need an impressive name for it. How about "homonymous maltypogenia?"

Rich

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

>Actually, I've been typing words that are vaguely homonyms of what I meant - good well-formed words that don't look like typos and wouldn't trip off a spelling checker - more and more the last couple of weeks.  Sometimes I catch 'em, sometimes not.  Probably just stress, but could be a sign of neurological dysfunction, I suppose.
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:34:07 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:33:07 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*  AKA "faces again"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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madrobin.net>
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mail.oz.net> <3C767E75.7090103-AT-
madrobin.net>

Ouch!  That should be "Barbara Drummond."  My spell checker did it. 
 (Yeah, I know and the dog really did eat my homework . . .).  Sincere 
apologies to Barbara.

Rich

Rich Galloway wrote:

> However, analyses by Barbara Drummed 



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:06:26 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:19:36 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: sidebar to one of Mr. Galloway's remarks...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFBC626777.0CA0E5BB-ON85256B68.00647FB9-AT-
infinity.com>
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"Homonymous Maltypogenia":
Ah yes...my mother used to grow these! very pretty small pale yellow
flowers; possible to force blooms right through the winter indoors...
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.
                                           --Vergil, *Aeneis*



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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:18:52 -0600
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Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <01KEJEQDJMEA9FXD0R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01KEJZIAHG2I9G6I2E-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <3C768009.7050406-AT-
madrobin.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>


<<We experience this kind of typos so often because spell checkers won't
catch them.  If it is a neurological dysfuction, I suffer from it too.
 We need an impressive name for it. How about "homonymous maltypogenia?">>

Or, making the term self-illustrating, "homonymous maltypogeneautry"?

In all seriousness, I suspect that folks who do this a great deal, lifelong,
when speaking may have exactly such a disorder, sometimes called
"Malapropism", where switched get thrown halfway through a word and the mind
leaps to another track. It's not necessary a barrier to achievement, though;
our current president and his father seem to have had something like this
all their lives.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:17:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:21:21 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Where is it NOW?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <008301c1bbcd$bb25f000$4a364b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01KEJEQDJMEA9FXD0R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01KEJZIAHG2I9G6I2E-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <3C768009.7050406-AT-
madrobin.net> <006e01c1bbcd$62d1f020$4a364b0c-AT-
paulstam>

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

<<In all seriousness, I suspect that folks who do this a great deal,
lifelong,
when speaking may have exactly such a disorder, sometimes called
"Malapropism", where switched get thrown halfway through a word >>

See what I mean? Talk about self-illustrating! I meant "switches", of
course.

Peacocks,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:19:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:32:27 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*: and, the dog often eats the homework
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF3301D1CA.68AADDC2-ON85256B68.0064B2F3-AT-
infinity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In my nerdy way, I have found this discussion completely fascinating, and
my silence hitherto indicates only my bow to those with far superior
knowledge of this terpischoreographical problem. Thank you all.
But it's well to remember, also, that any search for consistency across
editions and years in Playford is likely to result in tears. While it has
been fascinating for many of us to consider the implications of Kynaston's
enormous and (probably) single-handed productions for Walsh, *otherwise*, I
think it fair to say that any single collection is likely to reflect the
work of *many* hands, not all of whom expressed themselves in the same way.
Is their language *fairly* consistent? Yes, happily. *Completely*
consistent? not on your life. I think it quite likely that the *same*
figure is sometimes described in rather different ways--it's just this is
Master Page's way, and that's Master Jenkins' way. Master Page thinks "turn
sides" is quite sufficient; Master Jenkins can't imagine not saying "Th.
Men turn sides quite round, the We. the Same at the Same Time." E.G., more
than one person suspects that the infamous "Side Foot and Elbow" in
Bellamira is *just* "side." If you side by a shoulder, why, there's your
foot and elbow too, along for the ride...

And then, dance books are snapshots of highly compressed and semi-casual
(i.e. not Addisonian or Johnsonian) English from the late 1640s sometime to
1800. Essays from the 1840s are quite readable now--but immediately
recognizable as "old-fashioned."



Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 247
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.
                                           --Vergil, *Aeneis*



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Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:52:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:41:56 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 3 hours of changing partners
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00a101c1bbe3$1c9b61c0$ec9a01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200202211633_MC3-F30B-4A57-AT-
compuserve.com>



> Pray tell, Trevor -
> what ARE those reasons why you folks don't change partners as readily
as
> folks elsewhere? Three hours worth - that should yield some
interesting
> perspectives.....
> As far as travelling far for 'just' dancing: lots of us do exactly
that!
>
>  Hanny


Well Hanny,

I could always start with "what makes other people want to change
their partners when English dancers want to keep theirs"!  - but I
won't!
The discussion was started by a comment like "why won't you English
change partners?" or something equally as simple. And some of the
reactions took me by surprise.

Anyway, some of  the ones I can remember are:-

- We normally play in a band, so when attending a dance as dancers we
would like to dance together.
- My husband would die of embarrassment if he had to ask another lady to
dance.
- We have been brought up never to ask a man to dance.
-  If we come with a group of people, we tend to change partners amongst
our selves.
- We have always danced together - why should we change partners?
- I feel if I ask someone else to dance then someone else may have to
sit out.
- I will never split a couple, but wait for one of them to be left alone
before asking.
- I may be rejected by the person I ask.
- If  I ask someone else to dance then my partner may be left out.
- You should change partners so you can learn how to dance.
- When dancing in America I try to make it back to the edge of the hall
before the next dance - the whole hall appears full of predators.
- If  I ask another lady to dance I feel I must offer to take the mans
part.
-If I ask someone else to dance my partner will be left out.
- At an English festival, a group of Americans were also there; I had
just made up a square set with my husband and an American lady just
pushed me out of the way so she could dance with him.
- I enjoy dancing with my partner; that is why we come together.
- Some callers will call 3 or more dances on the trot; if we change
partners it could be ages before I see my partner again.
- Workshop dances can take ages; this makes a difference.
- We always/never change partners at club nights.
- We always/never change partners at workshops.
- We always/never change partners at dances.
- Why do some callers (not from England) say change partners after every
dance;  if they change partners in their country there is no need to say
it after every dance and we hate it if they say it all.
- We ignore the callers who insist we change partners anyway.
- Why won't many ladies ask us men to dance now we are in the 21st
century.
- I (a lady) feel I have to ask a lady to dance as there are normally
more ladies than men.
- I (a lady) could still never ask a man to dance.

Dance cards were also brought up.  Some thought these a good idea to
make sure they always have a partner booked in advance, but others had
seen people filling up their cards at other events before even arriving
at the dance!

All the above were obviously expanded upon with their own anecdotes, and
were not just male or female comments.

And if anyone else was there and is also on this list - please help me
out with any bits I may have forgotten! (or been biased towards?!)

(And by "only" dance I meant who has travelled to only dance - i.e. -
not do any other work or visiting during their visit)

So, not sure if any of the above sheds any light on anything - but I
think the main feeling was that we still enjoy dancing with our
partners, but we do dance with other people when we want to - not when
the caller tells us.

Trev




_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:01:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:59:35 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Up Go We"--Clarification of title
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020222.160019.-104927.65.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It's true that the correct name of the dance in Playford is "Cuckolds All
a Row." However, there's also a broadside ballad called "Hey Boys, Up Go
We" set to the same tune which appeared during the English Civil War
(i.e. around the same time). It's an anti-Roundhead ballad predicting
their eventual downfall--in fact, the last lines are:

"We'll make the gallows claim his due
And hey, boys, up go we!"

I can supply more words, if anyone's interested.

Dawn Culbertson
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:01:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:04:34 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020222.160018.-104927.62.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:19:40 -0500 (EST) susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
writes:
> 
> 
> In early 19thc manuals (check your Wilsons), you will find exactly 
> as
> many do-si-do's as allemandes, because an allemanade *is* a 
> dos-i-do.
> It's very carefully diagrammed and described as going in a small
> circle around your partner keeping your back turned to them.
> Unmistakeable.  The figure-name evolved sometime in the early-mid
> 19thc.  The Allemande as a Baroque dance is a separate kettle of 
> fish,
> and I can't tell you offhand what makes it particularly
> Allemande-like.

The name "allemande" (or, variously, almain, almande, alman) simply means
"German" and in the Renaissance referred to a couple dance that
apparently originated in Germany. A description and basic choreography
for it can be found in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" of 1588. Somehow, during
the 17th century, the French took over the term & changed the dance into
something very different. By the late 18th century, it was still a couple
dance but one that involved a lot of complex partnering figures and
turns. Somehow, the name stuck even though the nature of the dance was
completely changed. How that particular dance got transformed once again
into a particular move is something I, unfortunately, haven't got a clue
about.

Dawn Culbertson

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:12:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:12:45 -0800 (PST)
From: bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Storing dance descriptions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202222112.NAA08762-AT-
mail.eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote:

>I am not remotely sure that we need a database system for this kind of thing,
>and am very uncomfortable with suggestions of proprietary packages, however 
>good, like FileMaker and HyperCard.  (And those InternalCaps always bug me.)
>
>What I use for "dance cards" are individual ASCII files.

It might be worth looking at CDML, the Contra Dance Markup Language:

http://www.farmdale.com/cdml/

Development seems to have stalled, but perhaps a few more interested people would get things moving. The design goal is to create an XML style language for storing descriptions of contra dances and similar dance forms. 

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:13:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:12:41 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 3 hours of changing partners
To: EngCountryDance <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <006201c1bbe5$ab87e780$d27e86d9-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Nice one Trevor!

Of course you could say something about the chance to meet all the
interesting people that you have only been trading emails with previously
(Trevor and Alan met for the first time on Sunday!!
Regards Alan Corkett
NB I travelled about 5 miles to a meeting - Trevor travelled only to dance
about 400 miles.

-----Original Message-----
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 22 February 2002 20:53
Subject: Re: 3 hours of changing partners




> Pray tell, Trevor -
> what ARE those reasons why you folks don't change partners as readily
as
> folks elsewhere? Three hours worth - that should yield some
interesting
> perspectives.....
> As far as travelling far for 'just' dancing: lots of us do exactly
that!
>
>  Hanny


Well Hanny,

I could always start with "what makes other people want to change
their partners when English dancers want to keep theirs"!  - but I
won't!
The discussion was started by a comment like "why won't you English
change partners?" or something equally as simple. And some of the
reactions took me by surprise.

Anyway, some of  the ones I can remember are:-

- We normally play in a band, so when attending a dance as dancers we
would like to dance together.
- My husband would die of embarrassment if he had to ask another lady to
dance.
- We have been brought up never to ask a man to dance.
-  If we come with a group of people, we tend to change partners amongst
our selves.
- We have always danced together - why should we change partners?
- I feel if I ask someone else to dance then someone else may have to
sit out.
- I will never split a couple, but wait for one of them to be left alone
before asking.
- I may be rejected by the person I ask.
- If  I ask someone else to dance then my partner may be left out.
- You should change partners so you can learn how to dance.
- When dancing in America I try to make it back to the edge of the hall
before the next dance - the whole hall appears full of predators.
- If  I ask another lady to dance I feel I must offer to take the mans
part.
-If I ask someone else to dance my partner will be left out.
- At an English festival, a group of Americans were also there; I had
just made up a square set with my husband and an American lady just
pushed me out of the way so she could dance with him.
- I enjoy dancing with my partner; that is why we come together.
- Some callers will call 3 or more dances on the trot; if we change
partners it could be ages before I see my partner again.
- Workshop dances can take ages; this makes a difference.
- We always/never change partners at club nights.
- We always/never change partners at workshops.
- We always/never change partners at dances.
- Why do some callers (not from England) say change partners after every
dance;  if they change partners in their country there is no need to say
it after every dance and we hate it if they say it all.
- We ignore the callers who insist we change partners anyway.
- Why won't many ladies ask us men to dance now we are in the 21st
century.
- I (a lady) feel I have to ask a lady to dance as there are normally
more ladies than men.
- I (a lady) could still never ask a man to dance.

Dance cards were also brought up.  Some thought these a good idea to
make sure they always have a partner booked in advance, but others had
seen people filling up their cards at other events before even arriving
at the dance!

All the above were obviously expanded upon with their own anecdotes, and
were not just male or female comments.

And if anyone else was there and is also on this list - please help me
out with any bits I may have forgotten! (or been biased towards?!)

(And by "only" dance I meant who has travelled to only dance - i.e. -
not do any other work or visiting during their visit)

So, not sure if any of the above sheds any light on anything - but I
think the main feeling was that we still enjoy dancing with our
partners, but we do dance with other people when we want to - not when
the caller tells us.

Trev




_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:14:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:11:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEKQTXVYAU9G6I2E-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:19:40 -0500 (EST) susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
> writes:
> >
> >
> > In early 19thc manuals (check your Wilsons), you will find exactly
> > as
> > many do-si-do's as allemandes, because an allemanade *is* a
> > dos-i-do.
> > It's very carefully diagrammed and described as going in a small
> > circle around your partner keeping your back turned to them.
> > Unmistakeable.  The figure-name evolved sometime in the early-mid
> > 19thc.  The Allemande as a Baroque dance is a separate kettle of
> > fish,
> > and I can't tell you offhand what makes it particularly
> > Allemande-like.

> The name "allemande" (or, variously, almain, almande, alman) simply means
> "German" and in the Renaissance referred to a couple dance that
> apparently originated in Germany. A description and basic choreography
> for it can be found in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" of 1588. Somehow, during
> the 17th century, the French took over the term & changed the dance into
> something very different. By the late 18th century, it was still a couple
> dance but one that involved a lot of complex partnering figures and
> turns. Somehow, the name stuck even though the nature of the dance was
> completely changed. How that particular dance got transformed once again
> into a particular move is something I, unfortunately, haven't got a clue
> about.

What gets me is that it's multiple different moves; get someone to show you an
RSCDS allemande sometime.

I note that the CDS-published Early American reconstructions have a cotillion
figure "allemande" (which is more-or-less like arm right except that instead of
hooking elbows you keep the arms straight and take the partner's free hand
behind their backs) and "allemande reverse" (the same thing with left arms).
This is visually reminiscent of some positions in the French couple dance as
I've seen it demonstrated, and it's specifically the turn around; this may be
the missing link between the couple dance and the contra or square meaning of 
of a one-hand turn.

-- Alan (who makes no claim to actually knowing what he's talking about)

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:45 -0800 (PST)
From: bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Real Princess
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200202222118.NAA09091-AT-
mail.eskimo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Tom Roby wrote:

>On another front, if any callers out there have good words to use to
>describe the B1 in real time (no pun allowed, since the tune is a jig),
>or an effective teaching strategy, I'd love to hear about it.  

My top tip is to realise that the half turns are not necessary. If the half turns are done incorrectly they leave people on the wrong side at the end of the dance, however they're still opposite their partner. The first move of the dance is forward and back, the second move is a swing which allows anyone on the wrong side to sort it out.

Explaining this to the dancers means that you don't have to call the turns during the dance, and if they forget they don't have to try and correct for it (the correction probably making them late for something else).

Other than that, my normal tip for calling a dance where there are several different things happening at once is to work out what is most critical in terms of timing, positioning etc. and emphasize that in the walk through and make sure that gets called first. I'm not convinced that helps much here, although if I had to pick one thing to call first it would probably be the ends coming down the middle since they have further to go.

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:56:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:56:23 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <20020222215623.15424679E-AT-
generalist.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Quoth Dawn:
>The name "allemande" (or, variously, almain, almande, alman) simply means
>"German" and in the Renaissance referred to a couple dance that
>apparently originated in Germany. A description and basic choreography
>for it can be found in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" of 1588. Somehow, during
>the 17th century, the French took over the term & changed the dance into
>something very different. By the late 18th century, it was still a couple
>dance but one that involved a lot of complex partnering figures and
>turns. Somehow, the name stuck even though the nature of the dance was
>completely changed. How that particular dance got transformed once again
>into a particular move is something I, unfortunately, haven't got a clue
>about.

I'm familiar with the history of the word.  What I can't figure out is
what makes a Baroque allemande, which involves a lot of complex
partnering figures and turns, distinct from a Baroque gigue, which
involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns, or a Baroque
minuet, which involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns,
or a Baroque sarabande, which involves a lot of....well, you get the
idea.  Is it musical?  Something about the particular figures?  Steps?
Arm movements?  Anyone really up on Baroque dance?

Knowing what makes a Baroque allemande distinct from other Baroque
dances might (or might not) shed some light on what happened with
the allemande figure in the 19th century.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:16:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KEKSYYT1IC9G0SOX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


> Quoth Dawn:
> >The name "allemande" (or, variously, almain, almande, alman) simply means
> >"German" and in the Renaissance referred to a couple dance that
> >apparently originated in Germany. A description and basic choreography
> >for it can be found in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" of 1588. Somehow, during
> >the 17th century, the French took over the term & changed the dance into
> >something very different. By the late 18th century, it was still a couple
> >dance but one that involved a lot of complex partnering figures and
> >turns. Somehow, the name stuck even though the nature of the dance was
> >completely changed. How that particular dance got transformed once again
> >into a particular move is something I, unfortunately, haven't got a clue
> >about.

> I'm familiar with the history of the word.  What I can't figure out is
> what makes a Baroque allemande, which involves a lot of complex
> partnering figures and turns, distinct from a Baroque gigue, which
> involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns, or a Baroque
> minuet, which involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns,
> or a Baroque sarabande, which involves a lot of....well, you get the
> idea.  Is it musical?  Something about the particular figures?  Steps?
> Arm movements?  Anyone really up on Baroque dance?

> Knowing what makes a Baroque allemande distinct from other Baroque
> dances might (or might not) shed some light on what happened with
> the allemande figure in the 19th century.

I claim no expertise in Baroque dance, and I may have been told untrue things.
What I was told at an allemande workshop was (one) the allemande music was
typically in 2/4 time and (two) it was all stuff where you only touched hands
with partner, and typically didn't let go of them throughout the length of the
dance.

I eagerly await correction and amplification from somebody who does know
something.

-- Alan



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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Susan wrote:


[snip]


> I'm familiar with the history of the word.  What I can't figure out is
> what makes a Baroque allemande, which involves a lot of complex
> partnering figures and turns, distinct from a Baroque gigue, which
> involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns, or a Baroque
> minuet, which involves a lot of complex partnering figures and turns,
> or a Baroque sarabande, which involves a lot of....well, you get the
> idea.  Is it musical?

Certainly there are musical elements which are different for
allemandes/gigues/minuets; each has a distinctive time signature (i.e.
basic rhythmic pattern): allemands typically have two beats per measure,
and typically subdivide those beats by 2, 4, 8, ... or combinations of
these; gigues typically have (although at different times you may find
this expressed various different ways with their time signatures) two
beats per measure, with the beats subdivided into three; and minuets
typically have three beats per measure usually subdifided by various
posers of two and have a strong phrasing that extends over two-measure
pairs.  Similarly, sarabandes, courantes, bourees, voltas, etc. have their
distinctive rhythmic patterns, into which many of the same basic moves
seem to be placed with appropriate adaptation.

 Something about the particular figures?  Steps?
> Arm movements?  Anyone really up on Baroque dance?

Here by knowledge tapers off abruptly...

Eric Arnold
Ann Arbor, MI

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From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: and speaking of transformations in dance...
To: ECD-AT-
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List friends,

Please excuse the length of this posting and hit delete (or scroll down)
if it bores you.  (There's minimal "immoral and lascivious" content; see
end of antepenultimate paragraph.)

The publishing house where I work is preparing an English-language edition
of a book on Cuban music (originally published in French).  Some of the
music is related to dances that are ultimately descended from ECD, and we
are looking for advice about what English terminology to use.  Pointers to
reference books that are reliable and authoritative would be most welcome.
(I hope there's less misinformation published on this topic than there is
on morris dancing!)

The translator (who's not very familiar with ECD and related dances) and
author are for some reason reluctant to use the terms "country dance" or
"contra dance" where they seem to me to be the obvious choices (perhaps
because of a mistaken notion that country=peasant?).  I include below a
passage where some of the terminology is in contention; I give terms in
brackets as they appeared in the German edition because the author was
actually happier with the German translation than the French original.
[Disclaimer: the passage below is still subject to editing and should not
be quoted in print until the book is finished, though it may be freely
quoted/discussed on- or off-list.]

My impression is that the French quadrille is quite distinct from the
English country dance and that the terms should not be used
interchangeably, but I'm open to correction by those more knowledgeable.
(Maybe there's less of a difference in musical terms than in dance terms?)
I also suspect that not all the facts in para. 2 below are accurate.  

I can provide further details off-list if they would be helpful. Many
thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction!

Susie Lorand
Princeton, NJ, USA

(* following a word or phrase indicates that there is a glossary entry for
that term)

From the European Quadrille to the Havana <i>Contradanza</i>

The majority of Cuban specialists consider that the quadrille was
introduced in Cuba by the French settlers of Santo Domingo at the end of
the eighteenth century. But Alejo Carpentier asserted as early as 1946:
"When we speak of <i>contradanza* cubana,</i> we must not forget that
there existed at the same time, two specific types of this dance
throughout the early nineteenth century, that of Santiago and that of
Havana", and he considers the Havana version closer to the minuet (1985,
p. 120).
	In Europe, the English country dance appeared at the very end of
the seventeenth century, took root in France at the court of Louis XIV
beside the minuet, and spread through Europe as the French quadrille [Ger:
"Franzoesischer Kontertanz"]. Thus it is not surprising that it would then
be practiced, like the minuet and other figure dancing [Ger.:
Figurentaenze], in the French colonial salons of Santo Domingo and New
Orleans.  Some of those who emigrated from 1791 to Santiago de Cuba to
flee the Haitian revolution left for the French colony Louisiana, and came
back to Cuba after 1812, when Louisiana became an American state, after
being sold to the United States in 1803.  They would then settle in the
region of Matanzas (Yacou, no. 23, 1994, p. 71).
	Now sources prove that the quadrille [Ger: Kontertanz] was known
in Cuba as of the mid-eighteenth century; thus it arrived from Spain with
the incessant traffic of naval fleets between the Peninsula and its
colony.  For with the accession of the Bourbons to the Spanish throne in
1700, "the art of dancing in the French style" was all the rage at court
as it was in the salons.  Musical scores of European quadrilles [Ger:
Kontertaenze], printed in France, England, and Spain, as well as the many
brochures published in Spain, beginning in 1733, which describe the
complicated steps of figure dancing [Ger: die komplexen Bewegungsablaeufe
der Figurentaenze beschrieben], allow us to follow the evolution of
orchestration, rhythm, and choreography in Europe from 1714 to 1791
(Galan, 1983, pp. 69-78; Lapique, in Giro, 1996, pp. 156-157).  In Spain
starting in 1755, quadrilles [Ger.: Kontertaenze] appear which are called
"new," where one notesin the melody as in the bass accompanimenta rhythmic
pattern known by the name <i>tango</i>* (dotted eighth note, sixteenth
note, quarter note), which was obsolete in Parisian quadrilles [Ger.:
Pariser Kontertaenzen] of the same period (Lapique, in Giro, 1996). The
origin of this pattern remains a subject of debate among musicologists,
who identify it in many types of Arab, Arabo-Andalusian, and African Bantu
music (Lapique, op. cit.). In Cuba, its presence gave rise to a more
syncopated music and to a dance which was closer to popular taste, where
sensuality triumphed over European rigidity, and which were denounced, in
chronicles from 1770 to 1790, as being immoral and lascivious.
	A final possible influence needs to be pointed out, one that is
linked to the occupation of Havana by the English fleet, from the summer
of 1762 to the end of spring 1763.  The English brought another type of
quadrille [Ger: eine neue Form des Kontertanzes], already creolized during
their sojourn in Guadeloupe, which they took from the French in 1759
(Galan, 1983).
	All of these influences would come together in the dancing
practice developed in outdoor dances.  The  crossbreeding became prominent
in the rhythm, reinforced by the progressive addition of typically Cuban
instruments such as the guiro. At the turn of the twentieth century, the
quadrille [Ger.: Kontertaenze] thus modified carried the name "Creole" or
"Cuban".  Outside the island, in other countries of the Americas and in
Spain, it was called <i>contradanza habanera</i>* (from Havana), to
differentiate it from the European versions which existed at the same
timehence the confusion of terms with another modality, the sung
<i>habanera</i>*, which appeared in Havana in 1841 and which is still
practiced in Spain and in other Latin American countries, particularly
Mexico (Lapique, in Giro, 1996, p. 167-191).

-----


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From: susan-AT-
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Serious dance geekery on the early 19thc allemande and dos a dos follows,
be warned...

Quoth Alan:
>I note that the CDS-published Early American reconstructions have a cotillion
>figure "allemande" (which is more-or-less like arm right except that instead of
>hooking elbows you keep the arms straight and take the partner's free hand
>behind their backs) and "allemande reverse" (the same thing with left arms).
>This is visually reminiscent of some positions in the French couple dance as
>I've seen it demonstrated, and it's specifically the turn around; this may be
>the missing link between the couple dance and the contra or square meaning of 
>of a one-hand turn.

Here's a link to the diagram of an English Country Dance Allemande:

http://memory.loc.gov/musdi/171/0029.gif

which is from Wilson's Analysis of Country Dancing, 1811.  

His later manual (Complete System, um 1822ish?) gives the footwork
for this as three chasse's, jete', assemble', which is a remarkably
awkward set of footwork to do back-to-back.

The same author, in his Quadrille and Cotillion Panorama (1822),
describes a *quadrille* allemande thusly:

Allemande

Is performed by the Lady and Gentleman, each crossing their hands
behind them--the Gentleman with his right and left hands taking the
right and left hands of the Lady, facing different ways, and moving
round in a complete Circle--see the Diagram. This Figure, whether
performed with your Partner, or by any other Lady and Gentleman, is
the same. It must be remembered, that the Quadrille Allemande, and the
Allemande now used in Country Dancing, are different Figures--see
"Analysis of Country Dancing."

Later in the same book, the ever-helpful Mr. Wilson describes the 
Dos a Dos as:

Back to Back.

The Movement of this Figure is the same as the "Allemande" in English
Country Dancing; as the Opposites move round each other, back to back,
to their original situations. In passing round each other, care must
be taken to extend the Circle, to prevent the Dancers coming in
contact with each other; which, amongst learners, too frequently
occurs.

Strathy, in his Elements of the Art of Dancing (1822), gives the same
figure and same three chasse', jete', assemble' sequence for the dos a
dos in quadrilles, and also gives an alternate (and much more
realistic) sequence of chasse', jete', glissade, chasse', glissade,
assemble'.  He doesn't mention an allemande at all.

So, a quadrille dos a dos is a country dance allemande and a quadrille
allemande is a new and different thing entirely.  Worth contemplating
is that the quadrille and cotillion were French dances, so the
arm-tangling allemande is a *French* thing, but perhaps not an *English*
thing, specifically an English country dance thing.  

What that would suggest to me is that using a quadrille allemande
for an English country dance reconstruction is incorrect.  For what
its worth, the 18thc French contredanse manuals I've looked at 
don't seem to have this arm-tangling bit in them either, but they
generally don't seem to put names to their figures.  One knows
how to do it, but not what one is doing.

So, a hypothetical partial timeline of these figures might be:

1651 - "go about each other not turning faces" and variants
equals
1811 - "allemande"
or
1822 - "dos a dos"

with a baroque "allemande" as an entire type of dance during the
18thc, some figure or style detail of which may have spawned the
"quadrille allemande" which is well-developed by 1822.  Note that
cotillion and quadrille (to violently condense a lot more data)
can be used more-or-less interchangeably when discussing these
figures; quadrilles were a modification of cotillions, but they were
both French and had many figures in common.  They were *not*
contredanses, however; reconstructions of 18thc cotillions that
turn them into longways dances are....very creative and I would like
to see their sources.

The conclusion this leads me to is that at the moment I can't justify
using any arm-tangling allemande figure in reconstructions of country
dances, although there may of course be some source which lays the
whole thing out differently - I'd love to hear about and see such.

Susan







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Eric Arnold wrote:

>Here by knowledge tapers off abruptly...
>
Ah, another homonymous maltypoism.  :-)
Rich


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From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: and speaking of transformations in dance...
To: ECD-AT-
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Susie Lorand wrote:

> List friends,

> Please excuse the length of this posting and hit delete (or scroll down)
> if it bores you.  (There's minimal "immoral and lascivious" content; see
> end of antepenultimate paragraph.)

> The publishing house where I work is preparing an English-language edition
> of a book on Cuban music (originally published in French).  Some of the
> music is related to dances that are ultimately descended from ECD, and we
> are looking for advice about what English terminology to use.  Pointers to
> reference books that are reliable and authoritative would be most welcome.
> (I hope there's less misinformation published on this topic than there is
> on morris dancing!)

Shoot, I'll need to get a copy of that book when it comes out.  (Some people
around here, including my friend Vanessa Schnatmeier (who subscribes to the
digest version of the ECD list and may have more to say on this herself), have
been trying to suss out an alleged Latin / Latin American tradition of
recognizably country-dance-like dancing, somewhat hindered by the
ethnographical material on, for example, Uruguayan dance typically being in
languages we don't speak. I just won a book in an eBAY auction called "The
Language of Spanish Dance", which I hope will be of some help in explaining the
idioms that don't show in the English-Spanish dictionary.

> The translator (who's not very familiar with ECD and related dances) and
> author are for some reason reluctant to use the terms "country dance" or
> "contra dance" where they seem to me to be the obvious choices (perhaps
> because of a mistaken notion that country=peasant?).  

Would the translators be happier using the Spanish "contradanza" or the 
French "contredanse", or is that asking for the argument about whether those
words are misprisions of "country dance"?  (Which leads inevitably to the "who
invented it?" argument, about which some French people feel very strongly.)

> I include below a
> passage where some of the terminology is in contention; I give terms in
> brackets as they appeared in the German edition because the author was
> actually happier with the German translation than the French original.
> [Disclaimer: the passage below is still subject to editing and should not
> be quoted in print until the book is finished, though it may be freely
> quoted/discussed on- or off-list.]

> My impression is that the French quadrille is quite distinct from the
> English country dance and that the terms should not be used
> interchangeably, but I'm open to correction by those more knowledgeable.

It depends on what you mean by 'quite distinct' and by 'English country dance'. 
The square or two-face-two formation typical of the quadrille is also seen in
Playford, for example.  The actual business of going through a very long set of
standardized figures isn't much like country dancing as we know it, and the
music - composers wrote suites for the quadrilles - is fairly different, in
that you get through the music for one figure and then it's on to what's
basically a new tune, which may have a different structure depending on how
much music this figure calls for.  It's certainly not - in the 19th century,
anyway - two 16 bar strains and then the players improvise variations.  



(I personally choose to use 'country dancing' to mean the genres of dancing in
which couples interact with other couples, not just with their partners, a
definition which embraces ECD, Irish ceili, Scottish, contra, squares,
cotillions, and quadrilles, and excludes country-western line dancing, ballroom
dancing, and step dancing.  [Even that definition needs some tweaking, since 
it incorrectly excludes mixers like "Indian Princess" or "Wood Duck".]  It's
entirely defensible, but not helpful, to define 'country dancing' as 'the stuff
in Playford and similar collections'.)

> (Maybe there's less of a difference in musical terms than in dance terms?)
> I also suspect that not all the facts in para. 2 below are accurate.


> I can provide further details off-list if they would be helpful. Many
> thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction!

> Susie Lorand
> Princeton, NJ, USA

> (* following a word or phrase indicates that there is a glossary entry for
> that term)

> From the European Quadrille to the Havana <i>Contradanza</i>

> The majority of Cuban specialists consider that the quadrille was
> introduced in Cuba by the French settlers of Santo Domingo at the end of
> the eighteenth century. But Alejo Carpentier asserted as early as 1946:
> "When we speak of <i>contradanza* cubana,</i> we must not forget that
> there existed at the same time, two specific types of this dance
> throughout the early nineteenth century, that of Santiago and that of
> Havana", and he considers the Havana version closer to the minuet (1985,
> p. 120).
> 	In Europe, the English country dance appeared at the very end of
> the seventeenth century, took root in France at the court of Louis XIV
> beside the minuet, and spread through Europe as the French quadrille [Ger:
> "Franzoesischer Kontertanz"]. 

The English country dance reached France before 1710, and the French dancing
masters called it the contredanse (in various spellings) - (see Feuillet, 1710,
Recuils de Contredanse); to say ECD spread as the quadrille is a mistake, and
the German translation bears this out opinion.  Further, my understanding had
been that the quadrille only emerged in the very late eighteenth century and
achieved wide popularity in the 19th.  (Don't know about initial French
publication, but there was an American quadrille book in 1805 (Saltator,
published in Boston, if I have all of this right from memory).  Supposedly the
English started dancing quadrilles only after Waterloo, when the free flow of
dance books and dancing masters with France resumed.  (Which would suggest that
quadrilles developed post-Terror, since dancing-master was one of the
professions open to French aristos who fled the Revolution to England and
suddenly needed to make a living; if they'd known quadrilles in 1790 they would
have been teaching them in England by 1793.)


> Thus it is not surprising that it would then
> be practiced, like the minuet and other figure dancing [Ger.:
> Figurentaenze], in the French colonial salons of Santo Domingo and New
> Orleans.  Some of those who emigrated from 1791 to Santiago de Cuba to
> flee the Haitian revolution left for the French colony Louisiana, and came
> back to Cuba after 1812, when Louisiana became an American state, after
> being sold to the United States in 1803.  They would then settle in the
> region of Matanzas (Yacou, no. 23, 1994, p. 71).

Herbert Asbury's _The French Quarter_ (uh, 1932?  It's a history of New
Orleans, and not just of the French Quarter) contains an amusing anecdote about
a public ball in 1791 where some local buck insisted that the band keep playing
English country dances when the crowd wanted French country dances, and
eventually a duel was fought.  Proves nothing, of course.

> 	Now sources prove that the quadrille [Ger: Kontertanz] was known
> in Cuba as of the mid-eighteenth century; thus it arrived from Spain with
> the incessant traffic of naval fleets between the Peninsula and its
> colony.  For with the accession of the Bourbons to the Spanish throne in
> 1700, "the art of dancing in the French style" was all the rage at court
> as it was in the salons.  Musical scores of European quadrilles [Ger:
> Kontertaenze], printed in France, England, and Spain, as well as the many
> brochures published in Spain, beginning in 1733, which describe the
> complicated steps of figure dancing [Ger: die komplexen Bewegungsablaeufe
> der Figurentaenze beschrieben], allow us to follow the evolution of
> orchestration, rhythm, and choreography in Europe from 1714 to 1791
> (Galan, 1983, pp. 69-78; Lapique, in Giro, 1996, pp. 156-157).  In Spain
> starting in 1755, quadrilles [Ger.: Kontertaenze] appear which are called
> "new," where one notesin the melody as in the bass accompanimenta rhythmic
> pattern known by the name <i>tango</i>* (dotted eighth note, sixteenth
> note, quarter note), which was obsolete in Parisian quadrilles [Ger.:
> Pariser Kontertaenzen] of the same period (Lapique, in Giro, 1996). The
> origin of this pattern remains a subject of debate among musicologists,
> who identify it in many types of Arab, Arabo-Andalusian, and African Bantu
> music (Lapique, op. cit.). In Cuba, its presence gave rise to a more
> syncopated music and to a dance which was closer to popular taste, where
> sensuality triumphed over European rigidity, and which were denounced, in
> chronicles from 1770 to 1790, as being immoral and lascivious.

The use of "quadrille" here is in defiance of chronology.  If they don't like
"country dance" or "contra dance" let them use "contredanse" or "contradanza".

> 	A final possible influence needs to be pointed out, one that is
> linked to the occupation of Havana by the English fleet, from the summer
> of 1762 to the end of spring 1763.  The English brought another type of
> quadrille [Ger: eine neue Form des Kontertanzes], already creolized during
> their sojourn in Guadeloupe, which they took from the French in 1759
> (Galan, 1983).

Huh?  These English might have picked up cotillions (French invention,
apparently, square formation, earliest publication I happen to be aware of 
is 1735) in Guadeloupe, but longways country dancing is nearing the peak of its
popularity in England in 1763, so it's curious that they'd bring something
else.  I wonder what Galan actually _says_.

> 	All of these influences would come together in the dancing
> practice developed in outdoor dances.  The  crossbreeding became prominent
> in the rhythm, reinforced by the progressive addition of typically Cuban
> instruments such as the guiro. At the turn of the twentieth century, the
> quadrille [Ger.: Kontertaenze] thus modified carried the name "Creole" or
> "Cuban".  Outside the island, in other countries of the Americas and in
> Spain, it was called <i>contradanza habanera</i>* (from Havana), to
> differentiate it from the European versions which existed at the same
> timehence the confusion of terms with another modality, the sung
> <i>habanera</i>*, which appeared in Havana in 1841 and which is still
> practiced in Spain and in other Latin American countries, particularly
> Mexico (Lapique, in Giro, 1996, p. 167-191).

(Incidentally, we hired a Cuban dance instructor to teach what promised to be a
contradanza; this turned out to be a processional dance in the habanera rhythm
with a lot of stamping; people only interacted with their partners even though
the whole line traveled, so it didn't meet my (possibly idiosyncratic)
definition of country dancing, although you couldn't have told that by looking
at a still photo.  I was unable to convey to her what I was talking about when
I asked if there were other contradanzas that had couple-couple interaction.)

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Subject: tune source, anyone?
To: ecd list <ecd-AT-
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Good day all.
I am looking for the source of the tunes for these two
dances:

If love is a sweet passion (tune is "the Fair queen")
Mayfair

Anyone with a larger bibliography than mine (not a
difficult task, alas)
out there and willing to share?
Thank you very much.

Giovanni De Amici

-- 
for information on ECD in and around Los Angeles,
please check SBECD's
web page:
www.geocities.com/sbecd


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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: tune source, anyone?
To: ECD-AT-
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Giovanni wrote:

> Good day all.

> I am looking for the source of the tunes for these two
> dances:

> If love is a sweet passion (tune is "the Fair queen")

I think this is from Purcell, and it would be from "the Fairie Queen", I think.
Don't take that as authoritative.  The Bob Pasquarello solo piano ECD tape of
the same name, incidentally, is just lovely.

> Mayfair

If that's the tune for the Colin Hume dance of the same name, it's "Grimstock",
as published in Playford (and it's in Barnes as Grimstock).

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
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Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
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Susan(-AT-
generalist.org) wrote:

> Serious dance geekery on the early 19thc allemande and dos a dos follows,
> be warned...

Love it, keep it up!

> Quoth Alan:
> >I note that the CDS-published Early American reconstructions have a cotillion
> >figure "allemande" (which is more-or-less like arm right except that instead of
> >hooking elbows you keep the arms straight and take the partner's free hand
> >behind their backs) and "allemande reverse" (the same thing with left arms).

[much snippage]
> So, a quadrille dos a dos is a country dance allemande and a quadrille
> allemande is a new and different thing entirely.  Worth contemplating
> is that the quadrille and cotillion were French dances, so the
> arm-tangling allemande is a *French* thing, but perhaps not an *English*
> thing, specifically an English country dance thing.

> What that would suggest to me is that using a quadrille allemande
> for an English country dance reconstruction is incorrect.  For what
> its worth, the 18thc French contredanse manuals I've looked at
> don't seem to have this arm-tangling bit in them either, but they
> generally don't seem to put names to their figures.  One knows
> how to do it, but not what one is doing.

> So, a hypothetical partial timeline of these figures might be:

> 1651 - "go about each other not turning faces" and variants
> equals
> 1811 - "allemande"
> or
> 1822 - "dos a dos"

> with a baroque "allemande" as an entire type of dance during the
> 18thc, some figure or style detail of which may have spawned the
> "quadrille allemande" which is well-developed by 1822.  Note that
> cotillion and quadrille (to violently condense a lot more data)
> can be used more-or-less interchangeably when discussing these
> figures; quadrilles were a modification of cotillions, but they were
> both French and had many figures in common.  They were *not*
> contredanses, however; reconstructions of 18thc cotillions that
> turn them into longways dances are....very creative and I would like
> to see their sources.

If this refers to my reference to the CDS-published (Morrison, Keller&Sweet)
Early American reconstructions, I may have been unclear. They reconstruct
18thc cotillions as square-formation dances (with standard changes chosen from
a set of about fifteen and choruses which are distinctive from dance to dance
but repeated within a dance, and which may be of any length).  However, 
K&S do reconstruct "Allemand Swiss" (translated as "The German-Swiss girl") as
a longways, which has a very odd-feeling 

A1:  1st corners allemand reverse  
A2:  2nd corners the same
 
which makes more sense if "allemande-reverse" means something different in 
longways context than in square context.

Would you make that out as "first corners left-shoulder back to back?" 

> The conclusion this leads me to is that at the moment I can't justify
> using any arm-tangling allemande figure in reconstructions of country
> dances, although there may of course be some source which lays the
> whole thing out differently - I'd love to hear about and see such.

Indeed.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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From: susan-AT-
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Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
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Quoth Alan:
(Quoting me)
>> 18thc, some figure or style detail of which may have spawned the
>> "quadrille allemande" which is well-developed by 1822.  Note that
>> cotillion and quadrille (to violently condense a lot more data)
>> can be used more-or-less interchangeably when discussing these
>> figures; quadrilles were a modification of cotillions, but they were
>> both French and had many figures in common.  They were *not*
>> contredanses, however; reconstructions of 18thc cotillions that
>> turn them into longways dances are....very creative and I would like
>> to see their sources.
>
>If this refers to my reference to the CDS-published (Morrison, Keller&Sweet)
>Early American reconstructions, I may have been unclear. They reconstruct
>18thc cotillions as square-formation dances (with standard changes chosen from
>a set of about fifteen and choruses which are distinctive from dance to dance
>but repeated within a dance, and which may be of any length). 

I was wondering about that, but also thinking about "cotillions" I 
have seen taught by a person I will leave nameless who teaches them
as longways country dances - no changes, just the figures, done in
lines, etc.  The above sounds like my understanding of cotillions,
with the additional note that it is more typical of cotillion figures
to use all four couples, while quadrille figures often are just for two
couples.  That's definitely *not* a firm distinction; quadrilles cheerfully
adopted/coopted cotillion figures, came up with new figures, and made
a decent try at eating many other 19th-century dance forms.  (Waltz
quadrilles, polka quadrilles, galop quadrilles...)

>However, 
>K&S do reconstruct "Allemand Swiss" (translated as "The German-Swiss girl") as
>a longways, which has a very odd-feeling 
>
>A1:  1st corners allemand reverse  
>A2:  2nd corners the same
> 
>which makes more sense if "allemande-reverse" means something different in 
>longways context than in square context.
>
>Would you make that out as "first corners left-shoulder back to back?" 

I suppose.  I'd like to see the primary source - do they give it?  Can
you transcribe it?  "Allemand reverse" immediately strikes me as a
modern-sounding translation/mutation, so I'm instantly suspicious.
I just don't see *reversed* versions of figures in the sources I've
looked at.

In the context of this discussion, by the way, you might take a 
new look at the version of "Duke of Kent's Waltz" that you had on
your Cyprian Ball list.  That's not how I would reconstruct it, meself.
(And I find more issues with it than just the allemande figure.)

Susan
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(Tackily following up myself)

And don't forget the infamous freestyle mazurka quadrilles.  A
ten-plus minute one of those is an experience never to be forgotten.

Susan
(who happens to be researching early 19thc quadrilles this week)
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In a message dated Fri, 22 Feb 2002  6:40:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:

> The conclusion this leads me to is that at the moment I can't justify
> using any arm-tangling allemande figure in reconstructions of country
> dances, although there may of course be some source which lays the
> whole thing out differently - I'd love to hear about and see such.
Indeed.
-- Alan

Jim Morrison teaches Duke of Kent's Waltz with the "arm-tangling allemande figure" instead of the (IMHO) terminally silly box-the-gnat. I find it extremely elegant and flirtatious that way, so when I call Duke of Kent, I teach that form of allemande. The dance is, I think - I'm at the office now, so no handy notes - from around 1800, which, according to Jim, would make that allemande appropriate, and perhaps even the original way the dance was done.

Carl Friedman

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Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
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Susan(-AT-
generalist.org) --

> And don't forget the infamous freestyle mazurka quadrilles.  A
> ten-plus minute one of those is an experience never to be forgotten.

I haven't experienced that.  But Richard Powers taught a cakewalk quadrille
that was quite something, and on another occasion taught a
brain-and-body-destroying can-can quadrille (which he then admitted was the 
figures from a polka quadrille), and that was pretty special itself.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Okay, so I got curious enough to do a quick run through a couple of
sources for Allemand Swiss.  My general thesis is that for the most
part the names of these dances refer to tunes which were used over and
over again, with different figures being set to them over the years.
So it isn't impossible for a dance to have both a cotillion figure and
a country dance figure.  For this dance I found:

in The Scholar's Companion (1790's): Two different versions of
"L'Allemande Suisse", both labelled as cotillions.  The first one is
clearly a cotillion, with full-set figures, references to four
couples, etc.  The second one looks to me like a country dance -
here's your allemand figure, which actually starts with what I would
call first corners (first lady and second gentleman); that is the pair
that typically leads off these figures in early 19thc stuff.  The
dance involves casting and descriptions like "top" and "middle" which
to me are dead giveaways of a country dance - I think the cotillion
label is a typo.  The allemand figure is:

"Second gent allemande with 1st lady and change places with her,
1st gent do the same with second lady"  

It's hard to say without any music, but I would tentatively think that
means a dos-a-dos (clockwise) followed by a right-shoulder pass to
change places.

in Asa Wilcox's Book of Figures (1793), of which I only have a transcription:
There is an Alemand Swiss labelled a cotillion which clearly has cotillion
figures (top and side couples, changes).  It includes an alemand figure,
but of course says nothing about how it was done.  ("Alemand with side cople
& then with partners").  There is *also* an Alemand Swiss country dance,
which is extremely similar to the previous source's version, although
it starts out with the first gentleman and second lady.  I'd call it
a variation of the same dance.  The cotillion figure is completely
different from the one in the previous source and much shorter and
simpler.

in The Gentleman & Lady's Companion (1798), which claims to contain
the newest cotillions and country dances:
There is an "Allemand Swiss" in the country dances, but none in
the cotillions.  This is a completely different country dance which
has nothing except casting off and right and left (both incredibly
common figures; this is like noting that two people have brown
hair) in common with the previous version.  It does *not* have any
allemande figure.

The only conclusions I would draw from this are that there was a tune
called "Allemande Suisse" which was sufficiently popular that people
set both cotillions and country dances to it over at least the 1790's.
It didn't make it into Wilson's Companion to the Ballroom (1816),
which a lot of other old tunes did, so it might have fallen out of
fashion - or it might be in a bunch of other manuals of the early
19thc that I just don't have time to dig through right at the moment.
Or it might be a particularly American tune - all three sources above
are American, and Wilson is English.  I didn't find a "reverse
allemande", but it wouldn't surprise me if there's another source
or ten for dances to this tune, although it *would* surprise me
if any of them used the word "reverse."  I remain curious about
the Keller version.

Early 19thc country dance research requires a high degree of tolerance
for multiple dances of the same name - some manuals give 2-5 different
dances for each name, and sometimes the same figures are repeated
under different titles, so you have multiple names for the same dance
- so I don't have a real problem with the concept that there are a
whole bunch of different dances of this title.

Advertisement:

My NYC dance group is about to become my research victims again by
experimenting with both early 19thc quadrilles and (time permitting)
with Wilson's country dance protocols, which is to say making up
dances on the fly, with the first lady calling the figure.  If anyone
would like to be part of this experiment, drop me an email.  Our
next workshop is March 10th.  Note that we do the full early 19th-
century steps, so this is fairly aerobic dancing.

Susan
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Subject: perverse things to do to quadrilles
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Quoth Alan:
>I haven't experienced that.  But Richard Powers taught a cakewalk quadrille
>that was quite something, and on another occasion taught a
>brain-and-body-destroying can-can quadrille (which he then admitted was the 
>figures from a polka quadrille), and that was pretty special itself.

One of the vintage groups out here does a cakewalk quadrille; very silly.
Richard was the perpetrator of the freestyle mazurka quadrilles (hint:
never end up as the lead couple - you not only have to dance strenuously,
you have to think up, call, and lead figures as you dance...)

I'll see your can-can quadrille and raise you a galliard country dance.  :)
(Courtesy of Charles Garth, not Richard.)

Susan
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Carl writes:
>Jim Morrison teaches Duke of Kent's Waltz with the "arm-tangling
>allemande figure" instead of the (IMHO) terminally silly
>box-the-gnat. I find it extremely elegant and flirtatious that way, so
>when I call Duke of Kent, I teach that form of allemande. The dance
>is, I think - I'm at the office now, so no handy notes - from around
>1800, which, according to Jim, would make that allemande appropriate,
>and perhaps even the original way the dance was done.

I am sufficiently ignorant to have no idea who Jim Morrison is.  Is
he doing modern ECD or historic dance reconstructions?  If the
latter, I would be very curious as to his logic and what source he
uses for his allemande figure.  The dance is 1801.  If he has a 
cite for that sort of allemande in *country dancing* in 1801 I
would be eager to see it.

I will admit, I find the "lead down the middle and back again" figure
in Duke of Kent's (and hundreds of other dances of the period), which
I believe is properly done sideways, to lead very nicely into a
dos-a-dos (allemande) move.  It flows.

The version of Duke of Kent's in Playford Ball (attributed to
A. Simon) which I suspect is current in the MECD community does some
very *weird* things with the music and step correlation - it breaks up
the lead down/allemande figure across two strains, and in order to fit
the allemande into the second strain, it knocks out half of the swing
corners figure altogether and modifies the rest.  Extremely different
from the original dance.

Susan

P.S. I'm dying to know...what is "box the gnat"???
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Subject: Re: perverse things to do to quadrilles
To: ECD-AT-
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> Quoth Alan:
> >I haven't experienced that.  But Richard Powers taught a cakewalk quadrille
> >that was quite something, and on another occasion taught a
> >brain-and-body-destroying can-can quadrille (which he then admitted was the
> >figures from a polka quadrille), and that was pretty special itself.

> One of the vintage groups out here does a cakewalk quadrille; very silly.
> Richard was the perpetrator of the freestyle mazurka quadrilles (hint:
> never end up as the lead couple - you not only have to dance strenuously,
> you have to think up, call, and lead figures as you dance...)

> I'll see your can-can quadrille and raise you a galliard country dance.  :)

I fold.  (I can't pay in any currency from prior to 1770s, and even that is 
probably counterfeit.)  Would love to watch it, though.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Subject: Re: tune source, anyone?
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At 03:18 PM 2/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Good day all.
>I am looking for the source of the tunes for these two
>dances:
>
>If love is a sweet passion (tune is "the Fair queen")

Its in Nicolas Broadbridge's "Purcell's Dancing Master"

>Mayfair

Barnes book, tune name "Grimstock"

Victoria Bestock, Seattle



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Thank you Alan & Eric for your extremely useful tips on what might
make a Baroque allemande a distinct dance.  This is just what I
was hoping for.  I'm filing your comments for further digging.  :)

Susan
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Susie -
many of the traditional German folk dances have the name 'Kontratanz' or
'Konter' or only 'Kontra' in their name. They ALL are dances for four
couples in a square, and their sequences are most often those of
quadrilles: chorus (the identifier of the dance) and then figures which
differ little from one dance to another, only in choice of which ones are
done. Opposing lines, as in our longways and/or contras, are unknown.
  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

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In a message dated 2/23/02 2:14:30 AM, susan-AT-
generalist.org writes:

<< I am sufficiently ignorant to have no idea who Jim Morrison is.  Is
he doing modern ECD or historic dance reconstructions?  If the
latter, I would be very curious as to his logic and what source he
uses for his allemande figure.  The dance is 1801.  If he has a 
cite for that sort of allemande in *country dancing* in 1801 I
would be eager to see it.
Susan
P.S. I'm dying to know...what is "box the gnat"???>>

Hi Susan, 

I believe Jim Morrison was once director of CDSS. He published, in 1976, a 
book of reconstructions of early American dances, "Twenty Four Early American 
Country Dances, Cotillions & Reels for the Year 1976," which is quite well 
researched, and his sources are cited. I haven't checked his sources, but he 
seems to me to be very much an expert on the subject of dances circa 1800. 
His definition of "allemand" in that book is the linked-arm version which he 
teaches for Duke of Kent. 

This is not to suggest that Duke of Kent is an American dance. Pretty clearly 
it is English, and I don't presume to know what was meant by "Allemand" in 
England in 1801. I note that as printed in the Genny Shimer & Kitty Keller 
book the original instructions read "Right hands across left hands back::lead 
down the middle up again Allemand::& swing Corners::" 

Jim is also a terrific morris and rapper dancer, and teacher of same, living 
in Charlottesville. You can reach him at jim-AT-
morsn.com. (I can't imagine he 
would object to my giving his e-mail to the list.)

Box the gnat is the "right-hands-joined, 
twirl-the-lady-under-the-gent's-right-arm-and-change-places" move most of us 
do in Duke of Kent after balance forward and back. It is a common square and 
contra dance move. Given the name, I assume it (or at least the name) came 
from modern western square dancing. 

BTW, Susan, could we know your last name? Perhaps we've danced together 
somewhere???

Carl Friedman

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:21:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:20:21 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C772695.7090707-AT-
madrobin.net>
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I'm not sure what you mean by "arm-tangling bit" but the manuals I've 
seen seem to show an allemande as a turn involving some kind of hand or 
arm connection.  From the LOC site, you may find the following of interest:

Les Plaisirs de L'Arquebuse, Contredanse Allemande, Par Mr Dusuel, Mtre 
de Danse
and
Le Lund et Le Jeudy, Contredanses Francaises

Rich

Susan wrote:

>For what its worth, the 18thc French contredanse manuals I've looked at 
>don't seem to have this arm-tangling bit in them either, but they
>generally don't seem to put names to their figures.  
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:17:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:17:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: sidebar to one of Mr. Galloway's remarks...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020223061735.62711.qmail-AT-
web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:
> "Homonymous Maltypogenia":
> Ah yes...my mother used to grow these! very pretty small pale
> yellow flowers; possible to force blooms right through the
> winter indoors...
> Sorry, couldn't resist.

No longer any need to force blooms indoors here. We are having
incredibly warm weather (61F on Thursday) and as I was leaving
class last night I noticed some bushes outside the building with
wonderful smelling purple blooms. Surely they must be related to
the "Homonymous Maltypogenia".

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:57:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:57:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Goodbye
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020223065723.94459.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:
> Owing to unsatisfactory service from our ISP, I'm leaving the
> dance and gardening lists for awhile.

I used to have JPS as an ISP and I think that Earthlink took
over whoever it was that bought out JPS. Anyway, I wasn't very
happy with JPS. I was constantly being bumped in the middle of
looking up a page. I got busy signals constantly, sometimes for
a long time. I was getting connected at very slow speeds (19k on
a 56k modem). When I changed, I was getting my ISP through my
Qwest phone account, billed on my monthly phone bill. Qwest
recently decided that they were no longer going to provide ISP
service, and sold their customers out to MSN. I promptly changed
to a small local ISP (Expert Net) that my neighbor has had for
several years. So far it's been reliable. And it's only $95 a
year, far cheaper than what I was getting from Qwest.

Andy


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:07:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:06:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CDW February Dance Party
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020223070656.95253.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> Gene Murrow and Henry Chapin are emcees for the party
> with music by Margaret Ann Martin and Friends...

Ahh... the talented Henry Chapin. I am taken back to the time in
Watertown MA when I lived below him and was pleasantly awakened
by him practicing his Cello on many a Saturday morning. What a
wonderful way to be awakened!

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:33:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:33:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #1126
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020223073353.44980.qmail-AT-
web20008.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Nilos, whose spellchecker is not at all sure about 'rigadoon',
> and suggests, instead, 'rigatoni'

Word Perfect suggests Ridgetown or rogation.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:36:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 01:39:56 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: and speaking of transformations in dance...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <007801c1bc3d$4ae47e40$322a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>

<<Herbert Asbury's _The French Quarter_ (uh, 1932?  It's a history of New
Orleans, and not just of the French Quarter) contains an amusing anecdote
about
a public ball in 1791 where some local buck insisted that the band keep
playing
English country dances when the crowd wanted French country dances, and
eventually a duel was fought.  Proves nothing, of course.>>

Yes, it does. It proves that even a fellow who makes a racket about English
dancing really wants to dance old French dances; he's just itching for a
branle.

Peace,
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:32:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:32:44 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We*  AKA "faces again"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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generalist.org>
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Rich writes:
>I'm not sure what you mean by "arm-tangling bit" but the manuals I've 
>seen seem to show an allemande as a turn involving some kind of hand or 
>arm connection.  

Any one of a variety of figures I have seen danced but rarely or
barely documented that involves turning a partner by the hand or hands
and/or under the arms.

The documentation chain I would be looking for is:

1. a detailed description of the move or moves (footwork, arm movements,
figure)
2. the context in which it was used

For the second, in particular, evidence that it was used in *England*,
and in *country dances*.  While I can't claim to have dug hugely or
exhaustively, I so far only have evidence that it was used in 
French quadrilles, exported to England (Scotland, to be technical,
but I'll take Britain in general.)  That it was used in quadrilles
or in the "allemande" as an independent dance does not to me imply
that it is correct to use it in English country dances.  Use in
French contredanse would be helpful, but not conclusive.

>From the LOC site, you may find the following of interest:
>
>Les Plaisirs de L'Arquebuse, Contredanse Allemande, Par Mr Dusuel, Mtre 
>de Danse
>and
>Le Lund et Le Jeudy, Contredanses Francaises

I tried searching the dance manuals area of the LOC site and couldn't
find either of these.  Could you give me actual URL's?  I'd very
much like to take a look.

Thanks!

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 05:40:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:49:43 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Allemand(e)
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200202230840_MC3-F34A-58F1-AT-
compuserve.com>
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Allemande -
couldn't that also be a corruption of "by the hand(s)", a la mande (or some
such)?
  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 06:44:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:44:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: *Hey, Boys, Up Go We* (really *Cuckolds*)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9c.1b7dcf82.29a904d8-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 2/22/2002 9:58:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
susan-AT-
generalist.org writes:


> Thank you Alan & Eric for your extremely useful tips on what might
> make a Baroque allemande a distinct dance.  This is just what I
> was hoping for.  I'm filing your comments for further digging.  :)
> 
> Susan
> 
If you want to see this demonstrated, Paige Whitley-Bauguess and Thomas Baird 
demonstrate the Allemande on Volume I of "Introduction to Baroque Dance 
Types."

I purchased my tape through von Huene.  Addresses on the VHS tape sleeve are: 
ziggy-AT-
coastalnet.com and www2.coastalnet.com/`h4c5t4nb

Deborah


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/22/2002 9:58:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, susan-AT-
generalist.org writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Thank you Alan &amp; Eric for your extremely useful tips on what might
<BR>make a Baroque allemande a distinct dance. &nbsp;This is just what I
<BR>was hoping for. &nbsp;I'm filing your comments for further digging. &nbsp;:)
<BR>
<BR>Susan
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">If you want to see this demonstrated, Paige Whitley-Bauguess and Thomas Baird demonstrate the Allemande on Volume I of "Introduction to Baroque Dance Types."
<BR>
<BR>I purchased my tape through von Huene. &nbsp;Addresses on the VHS tape sleeve are: ziggy-AT-
coastalnet.com and www2.coastalnet.com/`h4c5t4nb
<BR>
<BR>Deborah
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_yb+LhARn8eHbh6ycPV3rWA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:04:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:03:25 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Allemandes (Nee *Hey, Boys, . . .)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C77AF3D.7090608-AT-
madrobin.net>
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Susan wrote:

>The documentation chain I would be looking for is:
>
>1. a detailed description of the move or moves (footwork, arm movements,
>figure)
>2. the context in which it was used
>
That's all?  I was hoping for videotape.  :-)  
Best we can usually do is find a few pieces of the puzzle and then try 
to figure out how they should fit together.  Best of luck in your research.

>For the second, in particular, evidence that it was used in *England*,
>and in *country dances*.  
>
You may find some iconographic evidence, at least for some hand and arm 
positions.  Somewhere I have an illustration from a Portuguese dance 
manual that looks exactly like the behind the back allemande often done 
in (modern) colonial country dancing.  Also, I've heard claims that the 
raised arm allemande figure would have been impossible to do because the 
heavy clothing limited arm movement.  I would not view that as an 
absolute.  I've seen a number of illustrations with high arm movements. 
 (Sorry, I can't recall more.  I've been very lax about keeping notes on 
illustrations.)

I cannot say what the allemande figure was in country dances in England, 
but the term "allemande" certainly is common enough in ECD dance manuals 
of from the 1770s on. Bob Keller's "Dance Figures Index" shows it first 
showing up in 1767.  

Interestingly, the Index shows only about 2-3 dances with allemandes 
also having a back to back figure.  In Bob's index, a back to back may 
mean one of a number of figures, so they may not be what we consider a 
back to back. I don't have access to those dances, so I could not check. 
 You may be onto something about an Allemande simply being a back to 
back or at least something akin to it.  I suspect an Allemande was many 
things depending on time, country and context.

Also worth noting from Bob's index is that ECDs including an allemande 
do not correlate to any particular time signature. 

>I tried searching the dance manuals area of the LOC site and couldn't
>find either of these.  Could you give me actual URL's?  I'd very
>much like to take a look.
>
I see the problem.  They are catalogued without a title. Giving you the 
URL may not work, since it's accessed via a query.  The entire list of 
LOC's dance instruction manuals is at 
<http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html>.
The ones I mentioned are catalogued under:
[Contredanses; description des figures, plan des figures]; Paris, [17--

Click the Page Image Viewer to see the volumes.  Don't panic when you 
see the first few pages are blank.

With that, I must bow out of this discussion for a few days, since I'll 
be away from my e-mail access.

Rich



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:24:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:23:30 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Allemand(e)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C77B3F2.8020805-AT-
madrobin.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Contemporary French text pretty much confirms that it is not.  However, 
it may have later, particularly outside France, picked up folk etymology 
connotations from this near homophone.  

Interestingly, if one wants to look further at the etymology of the word 
"allemande" it comes from roots meaning "everyone" or loosely "all 
hands," as in "all hands on deck." not "everyone take hands."  Allemande 
was one of the many tribal names that essentially mean "us" or, as in 
this case, "everybody" (that matters).  "Alle" is of course all, and 
"mande" comes from roots meaning "men" or going back further, "hands" as 
in workers.

Rich

Hanny D. Budnick wrote:

>Allemande -
>couldn't that also be a corruption of "by the hand(s)", a la mande (or some such)?
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:27:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:29:39 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Up Go We"--Clarification of title
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C77B563.C3F75BBC-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020222.160019.-104927.65.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>

"Dawn C. Culbertson" wrote:
> 
> It's true that the correct name of the dance in Playford is "Cuckolds All
> a Row." However, there's also a broadside ballad called "Hey Boys, Up Go
> We" set to the same tune which appeared during the English Civil War
> (i.e. around the same time). It's an anti-Roundhead ballad predicting
> their eventual downfall--in fact, the last lines are:
> 
> "We'll make the gallows claim his due
> And hey, boys, up go we!"
> 
> I can supply more words, if anyone's interested.

There are two different lyrics to the tune, both apparently Cavalier songs,
at:

  http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/gutenberg/etext97/csboe10.txt

I have a recorded version of the "Whore of Babylon" one somewhere; I forget
who does it, but the arrangement is very hymn-like and a real hoot in
contrast to the bloodthirsty words.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jberger
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 07:50:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:50:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Allemandes (Nee *Hey, Boys, . . .)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <182.410d3b0.29a9142f-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 2/23/2002 10:05:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
rich-AT-
madrobin.net writes:


> Susan wrote:
> 
> >The documentation chain I would be looking for is:
> >
> >1. a detailed description of the move or moves (footwork, arm movements,
> >figure)
> >2. the context in which it was used
> >
> That's all?  I was hoping for videotape.  :-)  
> Best we can usually do is find a few pieces of the puzzle and then try 
> to figure out how they should fit together.  

Since the allemande is a common figure in Scottish Country Dance, I thought I 
would check the home library for references.

From:

The Story of Scottish Country Dancing, The Darling Diversion, Evelyn M. Hood, 
William Collins Sons, Great Britain, 1980.  Possibly quoting (I'll have to 
check this later) a Henry Cockburn, eminent Law Lord (1779-1854) writing in 
Memorials of his Time, published 1856:

p.82:  'They made application to the most fashionable teacher of dancing in 
that place.'  Thereupon the London dancers undertook a rigorous course of 
three lessons a day to learn the steps of the Scotch Reels, signifying "the 
importance they thought a right knowledge of the dance in question might do 
them on their return to London.'

And all through this era country dances were continuing to please and to be 
polished, changed, refined to suit the mode of the day.  It was, for 
instance, just before the end of the century that the pousette and the 
allemande were introduced to supplement the traditional crossing over or 
casting off as a means of moving down the dance.

P.113:  Early in her work Miss Milligan was confronted by the figure 
instruction 'allemand'.  There had been, she knew, early references in 
Scotland to Almains and Alemans, and the Allemande was a couple dance popular 
in France in the 18th century - perhaps the figure had derived from that.  
However, she could find no clue as to how it had been danced in former times 
and it looked as though the dances with the allemande figure would have to 
lie 'on the table' permanently.

Then one day at home, she happened to mention the problem to her mother who 
thereupon rose to her feet, took ho