Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 07:40:18 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:46:31 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Rock Creek Double Star
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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annhigle>
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References: <72.15192fb3.295bba75-AT-
aol.com> <4.1.20011230221005.00b32c98-AT-
popserver.panix.com> <000801c191e8$4ea8a580$4f6c883e-AT-
annhigle>

I wonder if anyone could help me please, with information as to where I
could find instructions for the dance 'Rock Creek Double Star', which is a
dance in square formation.  I believe it was devised by a gentleman called
Eric Zom. I danced and enjoyed this dance once a long time ago, and would
very much like to have the notation for it.
Thank you in anticipation,

Ann Higley,
England.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:06:01 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 13:05:56 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Rock Creek Double Star
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Ann Higley writes:
> 
> I wonder if anyone could help me please, with information as to where I
> could find instructions for the dance 'Rock Creek Double Star', which is a
> dance in square formation.  I believe it was devised by a gentleman called
> Eric Zom. I danced and enjoyed this dance once a long time ago, and would
> very much like to have the notation for it.
> Thank you in anticipation,

   I can't find a listing for a dance by that name among my books and notes.
However it is possible the person's name might be Eric Zorn, a caller and
dance author from Chicago.  The address I have for him is ericzorn-AT-
aol.com.
I may be an old address, but might be worth a try.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
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Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:58:13 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:53:55 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <000f01c191de$a706ea20$036886d9-AT-
default>

Not exactly a mondegreen, but close -- a good friend of mine once read a
recipe in which he was instructed to "Cook lentils and rice thoroughly." He
used every tool in the kitchen trying to rice those wretched lentils.

Happy new year!

Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:26:11 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:21:53 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Mostly off-topic, but not quite
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Hi folks:

Shortly after September 11th, I wrote an essay entitled "Preventive
Medicine" which dealt with issues raised by those terrible events, and some
low-key, homely ideas for helping to prevent future horrors (inspired, to a
great extent, by our discussions on this listserv). Before I could put it
out, the war in Afghanistan began, and I put it on hold.

Now I'm releasing it, without many changes. If you'd like to read the whole
piece, I've posted it as an ASCII text file (~23K) at:

http://members.aol.com/pstamler/prevmed.txt

Please send comments on the general thrust of the essay to me off list.
Thanks, and have a happy new year.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:57:03 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:57:24 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sprintmail.com>
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Alan Corkett wrote (in part):

> The oldest one I can think of ...

My oldest memories of mondegreens stem from the recitals of the pledge of
allegiance young children were and, in some places still are, compelled to
recite at the start of the day in grammer school. For the benefit of our U.K.
friends, here it is:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the country
for which it stands, one nation (under God), indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all."
In those days we weren't under God.

We kids didn't understand it and had our individual constructions in reciting
the pledge. Many of my class mates said "one nation invisible". (The Invisible
Man starring Claude Rains was a popular movie then.) I couldn't make sense of
that; besides, I could plain here the teacher saying an extra syllable. So I
recited, "in the visible," meaning, "in plain sight". Some kids said, "in
dirigible", which seemed plausible but I couldn't figure out how to get the
whole nation in. Also, I pledged,
"our legions" and didn't get that straightened out for the longest time.

Anyone else have similar memories?

Al

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:27:43 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:23:54 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wedding Dances
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
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Jon,
tell me that you were just joking, PLEASE!
Edith Farrar's lovely waltz is "Enrichez Vous"!!!!!!!!!!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:42:01 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:41:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201011841040.22437-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
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  I always thought that "one nation invisible" was an apposite
introduction to the concept of the mystical body. After all, you can't SEE
a nation.



On Tue, 1 Jan 2002, Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore wrote:
> We kids didn't understand it and had our individual constructions in reciting
> the pledge. Many of my class mates said "one nation invisible". (The Invisible
> Man starring Claude Rains was a popular movie then.) I couldn't make sense of
> that; besides, I could plain here the teacher saying an extra syllable. So I
> recited, "in the visible," meaning, "in plain sight". Some kids said, "in
> dirigible", which seemed plausible but I couldn't figure out how to get the
> whole nation in. Also, I pledged,
> "our legions" and didn't get that straightened out for the longest time.
>
> Anyone else have similar memories?
>
> Al
>

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:52:18 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:48:00 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Oops
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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paulstam>
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Hi folks:

Wrong URL -- sorry! The September 11th piece is at:

http://members.aol.com/pstamler/PrevMed.txt

I'd forgotten that AOL is case-sensitive (well, it would be, wouldn't it?)

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:17:58 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:17:48 -0500
From: fjjoseph <fjjoseph-AT-
unix.amherst.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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A friend of mine years ago recalls in her catechism, saying "God is the 
Supreme Bean..."   Many of you may have heard the Spanish-American version of 
our national anthem ("Jose can you see...).  I read of a school teacher who 
asked her students to draw a nativity scene.  One young girl added a very fat 
gentleman, whom she identified as "Round John Virgin."  And I am sure if there 
are any folk dancers out there, you recall the Romanian phrase "she forgot to 
lay the eggs," and the Armenian dance "Candyman."

Richard Chamlin


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:15:57 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:15:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Parts of speech
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> And a very happy New Year for as many as will

I'll gladly join your set.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:20:17 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:20:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-
wmnt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> "You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille... four hundred
> children and a crop in the fields..."

If it weren't for the child labor laws, those 400 children could
get that crop in in a big hurry.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:21:37 PST
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Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 22:24:36 -0500
From: Arthur Munisteri <Munisteri-AT-
att.net>
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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On 1 Jan 2002, at 17:57 Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore wrote:
<snip>
My oldest memories of mondegreens stem from the recitals of the pledge of
allegiance young children were and, in some places still are, compelled to
recite at the start of the day in grammer school. For the benefit of our U.K.
friends, here it is:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and the country
for which it stands, one nation (under God), indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all."
In those days we weren't under God.
<snip>
Anyone else have similar memories?

Al

My memory (unchecked against written sources) is that the Pledge went (& still goes) 
(^ = pause) "I pledge allegiance ^ to the flag ^ of the United States of America ^ and to 
the republic ^ [not 'the country'] for which it stands ^ ... etc."

Cheers, Art

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 05:59:18 PST
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:52:53 +0100
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: RE: Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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> Edith Farrar's lovely waltz is "Enrichez Vous"!!!!!!!!!!

And have you heard the wonderful recording made by the Assembly Players on
their latest record "Old World - New Dances"?

Antony Heywood

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:09:59 PST
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:09:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Many of the confusions cited by list members about their misunderstandings
of songs and recited text from early school years remind me of my own
similar difficulties and misunderstandings, which overlap considerably
with those cited here.  One that took me a long time to sort out came from
the song (hymn?) that we sang before Thanksgiving:

"We gather together to ask the Lord's blessing; He hastens and chastens
His will to make known..."

(somebody out there must know what this's called).  Having grown up in a
rather free-thinking family with relatively little exposure to any sort of
religious doctrine at that point, the meaning of this was far from clear,
and, as in other cases cited, figuring out the meaning involved figuring
out what the words were and how to parse the whole thing, all at the same
time.  So if the meaning wasn't obvious, words or structure would be
modified to fit any sort of meaning which made any sort of sense at all.

I was frightened by it, and was terrified by the prospect of being
hastened and chastened because we had asked for blessings.  I didn't
understand why that should be the response to the request for blessings,
which I thought were supposed to be good things.  It didn't encourage me
particularly to _want_ to ask.  And I was very worried about poor Will,
who always seemed to be getting the worst of this, and wondered what it
was that he was supposed to tell us...

Eric


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:28:02 PST
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:27:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <51.16cc3ffd.29649d18-AT-
aol.com>
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This from a friend of mine...

>My favorite Mondegreen is when my little sister thought there was a Christmas
>song addressed to a fellow named O'Tannenbaum.  Pretty good name for a
>character, yes?  Seamus O'Tannenbaum ranks up there with Mickey McSheygetz.

Somehow I keep seeing the harp-playing angel atop the tree, with a derby and 
a cigar.

Nilos
================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:42:13 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
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Happy 2002, Y'All!
    As for the Pledge of Allegiance, I've heard it said that it was "the 
republic for Richard Stands".  On a personal note, and more on topic, I 
remember as a new dancer being very glad that in addition to the Bishop and 
there were the Jews of Barley. . . .
--Orly




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:43:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:39:01 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: OBE
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000901c193b4$5e7f9360$2b294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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Hi folks:

Malcolm Taylor, librarian of the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library at Cecil
Sharp House (headquarters of the EFDSS), received an OBE in the Queen's New
Year's Honours List for his services to the nation. I've met Mr. Taylor, and
have heard from colleagues of his tireless work in preserving and making
available traditional song, music and dance, and I can't think of a more
perfect recipient of this honor.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:04:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:04:20 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <14c.6a65c83.2964b3b4-AT-
aol.com>
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Al Blank wrote:

 >We kids didn't understand it and had our individual
 >constructions in reciting the pledge. Many of my class mates
 >said "one nation invisible". (The Invisible Man starring Claude
 >Rains was a popular movie then.) I couldn't make sense of that;
 >besides, I could plain here the teacher saying an extra
 >syllable. So I recited, "in the visible," meaning, "in plain
 >sight". Some kids said, "in dirigible", which seemed plausible
 >but I couldn't figure out how to get the whole nation in. Also,
 >I pledged, "our legions" and didn't get that straightened out
 >for the longest time.
 >
 >Anyone else have similar memories?

The pledge is full of things kids don't understand, and therefore
mishear. I spent most of the 1960s wondering who Richard Stans was.
("... and to the republic for Richard Stans ...")

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:33:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:35:05 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C3360EA.6ED37050-AT-
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References: <51.16cc3ffd.29649d18-AT-
aol.com>

Now we wanna hear the story of Mickey McSheygetz...

Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> 
> This from a friend of mine...
> 
> >My favorite Mondegreen is when my little sister thought there was a Christmas
> >song addressed to a fellow named O'Tannenbaum.  Pretty good name for a
> >character, yes?  Seamus O'Tannenbaum ranks up there with Mickey McSheygetz.
> 
> Somehow I keep seeing the harp-playing angel atop the tree, with a derby and
> a cigar.
> 
> Nilos
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:49:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:57:28 +0000
From: Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C337436.1C03-AT-
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Alan Corkett wrote:
> 
> I am impressed with this idea of learning "to dance" rather than learning
> "dances", and listening "to the music". Is this new? Perhaps it explains why
> there are so many people around on the ECD scene (may I say in the UK) who
> don't dance very well, but who know lots and lots of dances.
> ...but I am only a musician who watches them!!
> Alan Corkett

Sorry for the delay in replying to this posting from Alan but we have
been very busy and have only just managed to get through the pile of
messages in our in box.

The Knights would like to take up Alan's challenge!

We firmly believe that most pleasure is derived from dancing and not
just notching up dances. In the U.K. there has in recent years been a
tendency for some people to feel that the pleasure in dancing is to do
ever more complicated dances with little concern to how well they are
being danced. No, Alan, it is not a new thing to "learn" dancing and to
listen "to the music". GUSTO, which was funded by the EFDSS for a short
time but who no longer see any need to perpetuate teaching people to
dance, has been trying for over 10 years to do just this. It has,
however, been fighting an uphill battle because of the mistaken belief
by some of the diehards in the Society as a result of the incomplete
quotation of Douglas Kennedy, "That folk dancing can be readily
performed by anyone". However, they neglect to complete the quotation
where he goes on to say "That with training these people can go on to do
the more difficult dances like Newcastle". (Quotes paraphrased from
memory). As Ellis Rogers so eloquently pointed out, at the Dolmetsch
Conference in March 2001, that dancing in England degenerated into
simple and formulaic dances at the end of 18th century because people
were no longer prepared to spend the time learning to dance well. It,
therefore, became attractive to do the simpler cotillions and
quadrilles, and the new couple dances.

The challenge to Alan is to arrange a weekend at Halsway and invite
GUSTO to run a course where participants learn to dance and NOT perform
lots of dances. If Alan, or anyone else, is interested in our offer and
would like to know more then do not hesitate to contact us and we would
be happy to outline what GUSTO has to provide.

Wendy and Graham Knight

P.S. Happy New Year to everybody on the list.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:14:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:14:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020102211409.94733.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Graham Knight <graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Alan Corkett wrote:
> > I am impressed with this idea of learning "to dance" rather
> > than learning "dances", and listening "to the music". Is
this
> > new? Perhaps it explains why there are so many people around
> > on the ECD scene (may I say in the UK) who don't dance very
> > well, but who know lots and lots of dances. ...but I am only
> > a musician who watches them!!
> > Alan Corkett
> 
> Sorry for the delay in replying to this posting from Alan but
> we have been very busy and have only just managed to get
> through the pile of messages in our in box.
> 
> The Knights would like to take up Alan's challenge!
>
> The challenge to Alan is to arrange a weekend at Halsway and
> invite GUSTO to run a course where participants learn to dance
> and NOT perform lots of dances. If Alan, or anyone else, is
> interested in our offer and would like to know more then do
not
> hesitate to contact us and we would be happy to outline what
> GUSTO has to provide.

I have often felt that if people learn how to do figures well
(i.e. you give them the tools), those figures can be put
together in any immaginable combination and people can dance
them with very little teaching required. Something along the
lines of the saying about "Give a man a fish and you feed him
for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
lifetime." Many people can dance at the table, but don't have
the tools to fish.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:24:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020102212402.70207.qmail-AT-
web20005.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Al Blank wrote:
> >We kids didn't understand it and had our individual
> >constructions in reciting the pledge. Many of my class mates
> >said "one nation invisible". (The Invisible Man starring
> >Claude Rains was a popular movie then.) I couldn't make
> >sense of that; besides, I could plain here the teacher saying
> >an extra syllable. So I recited, "in the visible," meaning,
> >"in plain sight". Some kids said, "in dirigible", which
seemed
> >plausible but I couldn't figure out how to get the whole
> >nation in. Also, I pledged, "our legions" and didn't get that
> >straightened out for the longest time.
> >
> >Anyone else have similar memories?
> 
--- DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> The pledge is full of things kids don't understand, and
> therefore mishear. I spent most of the 1960s wondering who
> Richard Stans was.
> ("... and to the republic for Richard Stans ...")

I seem to remember seeing something on Art Linkletter's "kids
say the darndest things" where he had children reciting the
pledge of allegiance and hearing some of these same
interpretations.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:36:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:41:39 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020102.164140.-367151.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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 Many people can dance at the table, but don't have
>the tools to fish.
>
>Andy
>
Is this anything like "Robbing Peter to pay the Piper" or "waiting for
the other shoe to hit the fan" which is better than "Waiting for the shit
to drop."

As William Saffire put it: Take the bull by the hand and don't mix
metaphors!

Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:50:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:57:24 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <006101c193d8$88a63ee0$2074883e-AT-
annhigle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201011841040.22437-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>

In our part of the world, we do that medical Playford dance,  'Dull
Surgeon', and another two couple one 'American Seat'   (aka 'A Merry
Conceit'), following an amusing misunderstanding of the title.

Ann Higley



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:21:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:22:44 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020101211139.00a59890-AT-
mail.oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000f01c191de$a706ea20$036886d9-AT-
default>

I had trouble finding dance instructions for Mister Jersey's Memorial and 
Wooly Mary when I first learned them.

Several people have noted the misinterpretation of parts of the pledge to 
the flag (mine was the delight in libraries and justice for all) and to 
various prayers learned by rote as children.

This reminded me that when I was nine I moved from New York to rural 
Pennsylvania for a year.  The morning pledge was followed by a bible 
reading (this was a long time ago) after which we put our heads down on the 
desks and mumbled something into our folded arms.  One day I asked my 
parents something that had been troubling me.  If we took a train back to 
NY, wouldn't we have to arrive at Penn Station?  Why wasn't that OK?  Much 
discussion, leading to my reciting the prayer as I had learned it:

"Our Father!  Who are in heaven?  Follow a bee thine aim.  Thy kingdom 
come, thy will be done on earth as it isn't heaven.  And give us this day 
our daily bread and forgive us our traipses as we forgive those who traipse 
against us.  And lead us not into Penn Station, but deliver us from evil, 
for thine is the kingdom and the power and the gory forever."

II could deal with wondering who was in heaven and thought that following 
your aim (to get there) with a bee line was good advice.  It was the gory 
forever that resulted from going into Penn Station that troubled me.

My parents howled.  I was embarassed.  So my father consoled me by telling 
me that when he was a boy he'd had to learn the psalm that includes the 
line "May good Mrs. Murphy follow me all the days of my life."  He spent an 
anxious year wondering why good Mrs. Murphy was following him and looking 
over his shoulder to try to catch her at it.

Victoria Bestock


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:30:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:35:21 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020102.183521.-269443.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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 And lead us not into Penn Station, but deliver us from 
>evil, 

>
>Victoria Bestock
>
>
On the Long Island railroad, due to restrictions on the kinds of fuel,
one must change at Jamaica Station....

Thus: Lead us not into Penn Station, but deliver us from Diesel.

Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:38:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:37:15 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05010400b85949999de3-AT-
[63.214.76.42]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000f01c191de$a706ea20$036886d9-AT-
default> <5.1.0.14.1.20020101211139.00a59890-AT-
mail.oz.net>

Was i the only one to think there was an "elemenopee" in the alphabet 
song?  I wasn't sure what kind of pee that was, but i figured it was 
basic (elementary) and we all had to know about it...

- L
-- 

__________________________________________________
"Oh, yes.  It's vital to remember who you really are.
It's very important.  It isn't a good idea to rely on other
people or things to do it for you, you see.  They always
get it wrong."        (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery")
__________________________________________________
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:01:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:01:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103000113.19773.qmail-AT-
web20007.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:
> (mine was the delight in libraries and justice for all)

I think you still believe in them...

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:02:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:57:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCLNT3QB5G94GBBX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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ECDers --

I am seeking instructions for the country dances to "I Care Not For These
Ladies" (which I remember doing as a big circle mixer with USA figures, but
don't recall exactly how it works) and "Pastime with Good Company" (attributed
to Henry VII); I've never done that dance.

ICNFTL appeared in the Pinewood Fund collection (now out of print) and in 
Country Dance & Song vol 2, also OOP.  I have no source for "Pastime."

Please let me know off list.  (I have already tried Google.)

Thanks,

-- Alan (who's calling at the Highwayman's Ball on Saturday; see 
         www.peers.org/highway.html)

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:25:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:36:11 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20020102182923.00b28d30-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 03:57 PM 1/2/2002 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

>I am seeking instructions for the country dances to "I Care Not For These
>Ladies" (which I remember doing as a big circle mixer with USA figures, but
>don't recall exactly how it works) and "Pastime with Good Company" (attributed
>to Henry VII); I've never done that dance.
>
>ICNFTL appeared in the Pinewood Fund collection (now out of print) and in 
>Country Dance & Song vol 2, also OOP.  I have no source for "Pastime."

Alan, the version of I Care Not in the Pinewoods Fund Collection is a duple
minor improper dance by Eric Leber.  The circle mixer dance by Kitty
Creelman Skrobela that you want can be found in Tom Cook's Hunter's Moon.
I don't know which of the two dances appeared in Country Dance & Song.

If you don't have Hunter's Moon, let me know--I can send you the directions.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:07:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:06:38 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C33AE9E.7000203-AT-
madrobin.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000f01c191de$a706ea20$036886d9-AT-
default> <5.1.0.14.1.20020101211139.00a59890-AT-
mail.oz.net> <a05010400b85949999de3-AT-
[63.214.76.42]>

Thanks for wakening my childhood memories.  Now that you mention it, I 
also recall singing about an "elemenno pea."  

A also recall that my younger siblings produced several Mondegreens.  I 
recall my sister, at about 3 years old, asking me to "sing the song 
about the goat."  We puzzled over that for days until, my brother 
eventually figured out she was talking about the scarlet coat in "Mrs. 
McGraw."  I don't recall (and hesitate think) how she understood the 
rest of the line.  The stanza in question goes:

Now, Mrs. McGraw, the sergeant said,
would you like to make a soldier out of your son Ted?
With a scarlet coat and a big cock hat,
now Mrs. McGraw wouldn't you like that?
Wi' a too ri ah, fol de diddle la
etc. etc.

But, a few months later, my brother came up with a much stranger 
Mondegreen.  He was singing the blues tune "Motherless Child," only he 
thought the words were:

Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow.
Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow.
Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow,
a long way from home.

My brother was shocked when I told him that the real words were "a 
motherless child."  He said he had liked the song because the utter 
frustration an udderless cow must feel.  Somehow a motherless child 
didn't carry the same intense feeling.  

Still confused as ever,
Rich Galloway

Linda M. Nelson wrote:

> Was i the only one to think there was an "elemenopee" in the alphabet 
> song?  I wasn't sure what kind of pee that was, but i figured it was 
> basic (elementary) and we all had to know about it...



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:17:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:16:45 -0500
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C33B0FD.7090703-AT-
madrobin.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <4.1.20020102182923.00b28d30-AT-
popserver.panix.com>

CDS2 contains the Kitty Creelman version.  If I recall correctly, Kitty 
specified a moderately brisk tempo, but it is now frequently played 
quite slowly.  

The tune is a lute tune by Thomas Campion (1567-1620).

I care not for these ladies that must be wooed & praide. 
Give me kind Amarillis that wanton country maide. 
Nature art distaineth, her beauty is her own. 
when we court & kisses, she cries forsooth let go,
but when we come where comfort is, she never will say no.

Rich

Sharon Green wrote:

>Alan, the version of I Care Not in the Pinewoods Fund Collection is a duple minor improper dance by Eric Leber.  The circle mixer dance by Kitty Creelman Skrobela that you want can be found in Tom Cook's Hunter's Moon.  I don't know which of the two dances appeared in Country Dance & Song.
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:30:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:29:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCLQW5INOM94GMNN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <4.1.20020102182923.00b28d30-AT-
popserver.panix.com>

Rich wrote:

> CDS2 contains the Kitty Creelman version.  If I recall correctly, Kitty
> specified a moderately brisk tempo, but it is now frequently played
> quite slowly.

> The tune is a lute tune by Thomas Campion (1567-1620).

> I care not for these ladies that must be wooed & praide.
> Give me kind Amarillis that wanton country maide.
> Nature art distaineth, her beauty is her own.
> when we court & kisses, she cries forsooth let go,
> but when we come where comfort is, she never will say no.


Thanks for those comments.

To everyone else: I now have the directions for "I Care Not", but don't yet
have "Pastime."  I'm told "Pastime" was a popular RenFaire dance.

Thanks,

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:42:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:42:40 -0500
From: Michael Siemon <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05100300b85965ea143e-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <4.1.20020102182923.00b28d30-AT-
popserver.panix.com> <01KCLQW5INOM94GMNN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

>To everyone else: I now have the directions for "I Care Not", but don't yet
>have "Pastime."  I'm told "Pastime" was a popular RenFaire dance.

I expect this must be a modern (and local?) choreography -- the Hank 8
tune has no old dance associated with it. You could do a _bransle_ to it,
but not a regular one (neither single nor double.) The metric of the tune
suggests AABB with A 4-bars and B 6-bars. Not a standard ECD metric.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:57:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 17:57:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103015740.56767.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Rich,

I'll never again be able to hear "motherless child" without
thinking "udderless cow."

Then there is the series of old Pogo cartoons with _many_
mondegreens on Deck the Halls. "Deck us all with Boston Charlie"
was one of them. Somewhere I have a copy that I saved with a
whole verse, but I can only remember part of it. 
"Deck us all, Bow-wows of folly,
Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo..."

Wish I could remember the rest,
Andy

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:16:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:17:59 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C33BF56.9AF525B1-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020103015740.56767.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>

*ahem* ...and, since it *is* that time of year:

Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla-walla, Wash., an' Kalamazoo!
Norah's freezin' on the trolley
Swaller dollar cauliflower alley-ga-roo

Don't we know archaic barrel
Lullaby, lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley, Molly, don't love Harold
Boola-boola Pensacoola hullabaloo!

and the rest of the Known Verses, to boot:

Bark us all bow-wows of folly, 
Polly welly cracker n' too-da-loo! 
Donkey Bonny brays a carol, 
Antelope Cantaloup, 'lope with you!

Hunky Dory's pop is lolly 
Gaggin' on the wagon, Willy, folly go through!
Chollie's collie barks at Barrow, 
Harum scarum five alarum bung-a-loo!

Duck us all in bowls of barley, 
Hinky dinky dink an' polley voo! 
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie, 
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!

and the rarest of all:

Bark us all bow-wows of folly, 
Double-bubble, toyland trouble! Woof, Woof, Woof! 
Tizzy seas on melon collie!
Dibble-dabble, scribble-scrabble! Goof, Goof, Goof!


> Wish I could remember the rest,
> Andy
> 

hey, don't look at me, I just learned to read out of Walt Kelly's opus...
-Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:26:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:24:48 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05010401b8596ccbe3b5-AT-
[63.214.107.123]>
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>Then there is the series of old Pogo cartoons with _many_
>mondegreens on Deck the Halls. "Deck us all with Boston Charlie"
>was one of them. Somewhere I have a copy that I saved with a
>whole verse, but I can only remember part of it.
>"Deck us all, Bow-wows of folly,
>Walla Walla Wash and Kalamazoo..."

There are several Walt Kelly variations, i think.  Gleaned from 
various Pogo collections, as sung by various characters who each 
insist that they're singing the only "correct, official" version. 
Inspired Mondegreenish nonsense!  My favorites:

Deck us all with Boston Charlie,
Walla Walla, Wash., and Kalamazoo!
Nora's freezin' on the trolley,
Swaller dollar, cauliflower, alley'garoo!

Don't we know archaic barrel,
Lullaby lilla boy, Louisville Lou?
Trolley Molly don't love Harold.
Boola boola Pensacoola Hullabaloo!

Bark us all bow-wows of folly,
Polly wolly cracker n' too-do-loo!
Donkey Bonny brays a carol,
Antelope Canteloup, 'lope with you!

Duck us all in bowls of barley,
Hinky dinky dink an' polly voo!
Chilly Filly's name is Chollie,
Chollie Filly's jolly chilly view halloo!


And on that thought, i wish you all a peaceful and happy new year - Linda
-- 

__________________________________________________
"Oh, yes.  It's vital to remember who you really are.
It's very important.  It isn't a good idea to rely on other
people or things to do it for you, you see.  They always
get it wrong."        (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery")
__________________________________________________
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:15:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 00:10:46 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003f01c1941d$62f6fa00$e6294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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default> <5.1.0.14.1.20020101211139.00a59890-AT-
mail.oz.net> <a05010400b85949999de3-AT-
[63.214.76.42]> <3C33AE9E.7000203-AT-
madrobin.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
madrobin.net>

<<But, a few months later, my brother came up with a much stranger
Mondegreen.  He was singing the blues tune "Motherless Child," only he
thought the words were:

Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow.
Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow.
Sometimes, I feel like an udderless cow,
a long way from home.

My brother was shocked when I told him that the real words were "a
motherless child."  He said he had liked the song because the utter
frustration an udderless cow must feel.  Somehow a motherless child
didn't carry the same intense feeling.  >>

Odd -- I got that wrong when I was small too. I heard Paul Robeson singing
it as "Sometimes I feel like a marvelous child", and wondered why he sounded
so sad about it.

Peace,
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 01:41:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:37:16 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Fw: ball
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000401c1943a$3c981b60$744e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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Hi folks:

Just a reminder that the St. Louis English Country Dancers' Olde Christmas
Ball happens this Saturday, Jan. 5th, at 8pm. The dance will be held at the
Focal Point Arts Center, 2720 Sutton Blvd. in Maplewood -- there's a map on
our website:

http://members.aol.com/paradiseMO/english.html

Music provided by the Original Speckled Band; calling by Peter Wollenberg.
Fancy dress (your definition) is encouraged, and so is the bringing of
snacks and munchies. The cost is $12/person, $20/couple, $25/family. For
more information please call me at 314-664-9207 or e-mail pstamler-AT-
pobox.com
.

Peace,
Paul Stamler


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 03:29:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:29:14 +0000
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C34408A.7790E6E9-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
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References: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201011841040.22437-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com> <006101c193d8$88a63ee0$2074883e-AT-
annhigle>

Ann Higley wrote:

> In our part of the world, we do that medical Playford dance,  'Dull
> Surgeon', and another two couple one 'American Seat'   (aka 'A Merry
> Conceit'), following an amusing misunderstanding of the title.
>
> Ann Higley

It's time someone mentioned Hilary Herbert's dance "Bring a Chair" which
she wrote after mis-hearing someone announce a potluck dance as
"bring and share"

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:53:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:04:22 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000601c19455$b405e220$444e3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Green" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."


> At 03:57 PM 1/2/2002 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
> >I am seeking instructions for the country dances to "I Care Not For These
> >Ladies" (which I remember doing as a big circle mixer with USA figures,
but
> >don't recall exactly how it works) and "Pastime with Good Company"
(attributed
> >to Henry VII); I've never done that dance.
> >
> >ICNFTL appeared in the Pinewood Fund collection (now out of print) and in
> >Country Dance & Song vol 2, also OOP.  I have no source for "Pastime."
>
> Alan, the version of I Care Not in the Pinewoods Fund Collection is a
duple
> minor improper dance by Eric Leber.  The circle mixer dance by Kitty
> Creelman Skrobela that you want can be found in Tom Cook's Hunter's Moon.
> I don't know which of the two dances appeared in Country Dance & Song.
>
> If you don't have Hunter's Moon, let me know--I can send you the
directions.
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:54:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:05:37 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c19455$b52c60c0$444e3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Green" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."


> At 03:57 PM 1/2/2002 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
> >I am seeking instructions for the country dances to "I Care Not For These
> >Ladies" (which I remember doing as a big circle mixer with USA figures,
but
> >don't recall exactly how it works) and "Pastime with Good Company"
(attributed
> >to Henry VII); I've never done that dance.
> >
> >ICNFTL appeared in the Pinewood Fund collection (now out of print) and in
> >Country Dance & Song vol 2, also OOP.  I have no source for "Pastime."
>
> Alan, the version of I Care Not in the Pinewoods Fund Collection is a
duple
> minor improper dance by Eric Leber.  The circle mixer dance by Kitty
> Creelman Skrobela that you want can be found in Tom Cook's Hunter's Moon.
> I don't know which of the two dances appeared in Country Dance & Song.
>
> If you don't have Hunter's Moon, let me know--I can send you the
directions.
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 04:54:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:11:04 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000801c19455$b62fc700$444e3c3e-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <4.1.20020102182923.00b28d30-AT-
popserver.panix.com>

a version of ICNFTL is also in John Millars Elizabethan Dances, but there is
a a difference in the way it is danced across the Atlantic. In England we
tend to dance it at a slow and stately pace, in the US it seems to go rather
faster! Alan Davies puts in extra movements to make the dance longer, like
gypsies and back to backs
I do know the other dance please can someone post directions.
Francis2
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Green" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."


> At 03:57 PM 1/2/2002 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
> >I am seeking instructions for the country dances to "I Care Not For These
> >Ladies" (which I remember doing as a big circle mixer with USA figures,
but
> >don't recall exactly how it works) and "Pastime with Good Company"
(attributed
> >to Henry VII); I've never done that dance.
> >
> >ICNFTL appeared in the Pinewood Fund collection (now out of print) and in
> >Country Dance & Song vol 2, also OOP.  I have no source for "Pastime."
>
> Alan, the version of I Care Not in the Pinewoods Fund Collection is a
duple
> minor improper dance by Eric Leber.  The circle mixer dance by Kitty
> Creelman Skrobela that you want can be found in Tom Cook's Hunter's Moon.
> I don't know which of the two dances appeared in Country Dance & Song.
>
> If you don't have Hunter's Moon, let me know--I can send you the
directions.
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 06:59:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 07:00:53 -0800
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C347225.33B336D4-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201011841040.22437-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com> <006101c193d8$88a63ee0$2074883e-AT-
annhigle>

Ann Higley wrote:
> 
> In our part of the world, we do that medical Playford dance,  'Dull
> Surgeon', and another two couple one 'American Seat'   (aka 'A Merry
> Conceit'), following an amusing misunderstanding of the title.

Around here, we do "Lawn Gods."  And "Cannoli Park," thought that's more of
a typographic Mondegreen.

-- 
Jon Berger
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
Personal: jberger-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 08:55:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:50:39 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <15e.68fa783.2965e5df-AT-
aol.com>
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Orly-

 >the Jews of Barley

Ann-

 >Dull Surgeon ... American Seat

Victoria-

 >Mister Jersey's Memorial and Wooly Mary

Jon-

 >Lawn Gods ... Cannoli Park

OK, you asked for it:

One Sir Night
Fay 'n' I Would
A Newbie Ginning
Ash for th' Anniversary
Irish Lamb & Tation
A Story, A Lass (or A Story, Alas)
Haydn (or Hidin') Rose Line
Auretti's Stuck Zipper
The Shrews Bury Lasses
'D ya make 'er?
Bar Room Down
The Lass of Rich Monill

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 10:29:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 10:29:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103182929.40527.qmail-AT-
web13607.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net> wrote:
> Was i the only one to think there was an "elemenopee" in the
> alphabet 
> song?  I wasn't sure what kind of pee that was, but i figured it
> was 
> basic (elementary) and we all had to know about it...


I thought it was an "elemno".  The "P" was clearly distinct.

In the "Pledge of Allegience" I not only wondered about the country's
invisibility, I worried about why liver, one of my least favorite
food items was involved, as in "liver tea" for all.  And as a born
Democrat, how come the Republicans got mentioned (maybe they would
have to eat the liver...)  For that matter, I didn't really know what
a "pledgealegions" was in the first place.

And just what were the U.S. Marines doing going from "the halls of
Montezuma to the shores of AAA" (for non-US readers, the American
Automobile Association, usually referred to as "Triple A.")  Bringing
back the news perhaps? (ECD content!)

Later in life, after hearing "Buddy Can You Spare a Dime?" I spent
years wondering where "Kakisoose" was, the place where:
"Once in Kakisoose gee we looked swell
Full of that Yankee doodleedum.
A half a million boots went slogging through hell
And I was the kid with the drum."

Obviously someplace that had seen a war.  Given that it sounded
something like a cross between Casablanca and Suez, I imagined it
somewhere in North Africa, picturing all those boots slogging through
a desert waste.  Eventually, a light bulb went off and I realzed that
in addition to the boots they were *wearing* khaki suits.

My personal favorite may not really qualify as a Mondegreen since I
didn't actually mishear the words.  Once after I had been listening
to some recording of Civil War songs I got part of the chorus from
"Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys" stuck in my brain for several days.  I
was doing my best to ignore it, waiting for it to go away, when one
day I actually listened and realized that the words had mutated in my
brain.  Instead of 
"We will rally 'round the flag, boys
Rally once again
Shouting the battle cry of freedom"

the little voice in the back of my head was reciting
"....Counting the butterflies of freedom."

Which is an interesting image.

Barbara


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 11:46:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:52:15 +0000
From: Ann Higley <ann-AT-
higley.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002801c19490$50791ac0$1b89883e-AT-
annhigle>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000f01c191de$a706ea20$036886d9-AT-
default> <5.1.0.14.1.20020101211139.00a59890-AT-
mail.oz.net> <a05010400b85949999de3-AT-
[63.214.76.42]> <3C33AE9E.7000203-AT-
madrobin.net>


I've greatly enjoyed some of the childhood misunderstandings posted, and
would like to contribute another. I recall my grandmother saying she was
always bothered as a child about why God needed a chart...........as in 'Our
Father, wi'  chart in heaven'.

Another real favourite of mine is a story about a class of small children
asked to draw a picture about the Xmas story. One little girl drew a picture
of an aeroplane, and the puzzled teacher asked her about it. 'Well', she
explained, 'it's the part where Joseph is told to take Mary and the baby,
and flee to Egypt...so through the plane windows,  I've drawn  Joseph, Mary,
the baby Jesus and ......the flea!  And at the front of the plane
is......Pilate'.

(Well, it's festive if not exactly on topic.)

Ann Higley.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:20:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:18:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <ba.1f1a359c.296616b1-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andy said

>"Give a man a fish and you feed him
>for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
>lifetime." 

See, what I've always heard is "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, 
but _teach_ a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer." 

But I'm right there with Ellen about waiting for the other shoe to hit the 
fan...the suspense is awful!

Nilos
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:32:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:31:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103203159.51766.qmail-AT-
web13601.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Andy said
> 
> >"Give a man a fish and you feed him
> >for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
> >lifetime." 
> 
> See, what I've always heard is "Give a man a fish and you feed him
> for a day, 
> but _teach_ a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer."

>Nilos 

I understood it was "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but
give a man a job and he eats for 20 minutes a day while desperately
trying to get other things done.

Barbara

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:37:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:34:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Ian Andrew Engle <ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.10201031526.A25406-a100000-AT-
acme>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> To everyone else: I now have the directions for "I Care Not", but don't yet
> have "Pastime."  I'm told "Pastime" was a popular RenFaire dance.

	It does not come from any 16th or 17th century dance source with
which I am familiar.  

	Being interested in choreographic practices of that time period as
well as modern attempts to follow in that style, I'd also be interested in
seeing what the renfair circuit is doing to that tune. 


					--Ian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:45:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:45:10 +0000
From: munisteri-AT-
att.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103204510.ODCP13869.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net-AT-
webmail.worldnet.att.net>
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< snip>
> 
> One Sir Night

and here I always thought it was One Sir Knight.

Cheers, Art
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:49:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: "I Care Not" and "Pastime"
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCMVCO5JMC94GBBX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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ECDers --

For the curious, I've received instructions for "Pastime With Good Company."


PASTIME WITH GOOD COMPANY
(Music by Henry VIII - played as Written)

Longways.  No progression, so can be as many as will or short sets.

Figure: Up a double and back, set and turn single;
        that again.   (In successive figures, up a double and back becomes
        siding into lines and arming - standard USA.)

CHORUS (Similar to Chestnut's): Take hands along the lines and fall back (a
double), then cross, changing places with your partner by the right
shoulder, looping elegantly to your own right to retorm the line.

Take hands along the lines and fall back (a double), then cross, changing
places with your partner by the right shoulder, looping elegantly to your
own right to return to your original place.


-- Alan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:58:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:54:35 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001501c19498$da8873c0$f0284b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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----- Original Message -----
From: <Tideswell-AT-
aol.com>

Andy said

>"Give a man a fish and you feed him
>for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
>lifetime."

And Nilos said:

<<See, what I've always heard is "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a
day,
but _teach_ a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer." >>

I've thought it was "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but teach
him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks."

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:31:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 13:31:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103213151.47898.qmail-AT-
web13603.mail.yahoo.com>
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And that reminds me of "knights in white satin."  I figured they were
wearing the satin under their armor.

Barbara

--- munisteri-AT-
att.net wrote:
> 
> < snip>
> > 
> > One Sir Night
> 
> and here I always thought it was One Sir Knight.
> 
> Cheers, Art


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:44:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:44:10 +0000
From: Ken McFarland <ecdlistreader-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Malcolm Taylor
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
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hotmail.com>
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Can anyone give me Malcolm Taylor's email address?

Reply privately to farlands-AT-
ptialaska.net if you can help.

Cheers,
Ken McFarland
farlands-AT-
ptialaska.net

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:48:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:53:22 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103.175322.-441131.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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<barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> writes:
>And that reminds me of "knights in white satin."  I figured they were
>wearing the satin under their armor.
>
>Barbara


So.... Why didn't the dragon go to church on Sunday?

He only preyed on weak knights. 

ET
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:32:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 23:32:21 +0000
From: Howard Mitchell <howard-AT-
hgmitchell.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Autumn Music Break 2002
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <E16MHLX-0005BL-00.2002-01-03-23-32-28-AT-
cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk>
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31st August to 7th September 2002
Autumn Music Break at St. Audries nr. Minehead UK
Classical Accordion Technique with John Leslie
Folk Dance Music with Rod Stradling and Aidan Broadbridge

See http://www.hgmitchell.fsnet.co.uk/amb2002.htm for details

Howard Mitchell
http://www.stradivarious.co.uk  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:24:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:23:23 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C34F5FB.EE03146F-AT-
flash.net>
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My favorite variation is:

If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.  If you give a man a
stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish parts all over
the village. -- Jack Handy

--Charlene

-- 
How can "crash course" and "collision course" have two different
meanings?  -- George Carlin
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
mailto:findbook-AT-
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Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 17:50:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:54:59 -0700
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Knights in white satin
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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web13603.mail.yahoo.com>

It wasn't until I read your posting that I realized they weren't wearing
satin under their armor!
Fun dancing with you! In our haste to depart, we forgot to grab an Elm
City Assembly flier; what's the website?
Helen

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:38:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 18:38:58 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3515C1.48A2F165-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <ba.1f1a359c.296616b1-AT-
aol.com> <001501c19498$da8873c0$f0284b0c-AT-
paulstam>

> Andy said
> 
> >"Give a man a fish and you feed him
> >for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
> >lifetime."
> 
> And Nilos said:
> 
> <<See, what I've always heard is "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a
> day,
> but _teach_ a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer." >>
> 
> I've thought it was "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but teach
> him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks."
> 
> Peace,
> Paul

No, no, no, it's "give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a
night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of
his life."

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:08:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:09:51 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEIEEBDAAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The only usage of Pastime With Good Company at the Ren. Fairs in Northern
California that I am familiar with is singing the song and performing the
music. NO dancing that I've seen.

The Poxy Boggards recorded a very nice version on their "Barley Legal" CD.


Norman

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ian Andrew Engle
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:34 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
>> To everyone else: I now have the directions for "I Care Not", but don't
yet
>> have "Pastime."  I'm told "Pastime" was a popular RenFaire dance.
>
> It does not come from any 16th or 17th century dance source with
> which I am familiar.
>
> Being interested in choreographic practices of that time period
> as well as modern attempts to follow in that style, I'd also be
> interested in seeing what the renfair circuit is doing to that tune.
>
>
> 					--Ian
>
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:20:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:06:33 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020103.221902.-392437.0.franch-AT-
juno.com>
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Even though I'm anxious to get off this thread, since we're on dances:  I
required clarification when someone first call The Common Tern, hearing
Comintern (perhaps an answer to Steve Corrsin's Dancing Fascists).

Comrade Franch
Baltimore MD
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:32:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:32:06 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Teaching dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKOEGEGBAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> From: Kalia Kliban
> 
> > Andy said
> > 
> > >"Give a man a fish and you feed him
> > >for a day, but _teach_ a man to fish and you feed him for a
> > >lifetime."
> > 
> > And Nilos said:
> > 
> > <<See, what I've always heard is "Give a man a fish and you 
> feed him for a
> > day,
> > but _teach_ a man to fish and he'll sit in a boat and drink beer." >>
> > 
> > I've thought it was "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a 
> day, but teach
> > him to use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks."
> > 
> > Peace,
> > Paul
> 
> No, no, no, it's "give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a
> night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of
> his life."
> 
No, that wasn't it.  How about "you can fire a man who's set for life?".  Or, "Give a man a life and he'll set the fish to fry".  No that's not right either.  Um, "Anyone can feed a fish to a man, but it takes a whale of an effort to feed a man to a fish".  Nope.  Um, "Give a man a beer and he'll leave you alone for a while.  Teach him to make beer, and..." 

I'll keep working on it.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org  



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:50:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 21:50:10 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKGEGKGBAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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FWIW, that matches my notes.  I have a copy of the sheet music which references the author to have supposedly been Henry VIII himself, but there's no indication as to a specific dance associated.  On the other hand, given the king's temprament, *I* certainly would stand and if needs be dance when his song was played. :-)

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
http://connect.to/ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Norman Bradley
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:10 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: RE: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
> 
> 
> The only usage of Pastime With Good Company at the Ren. Fairs in Northern
> California that I am familiar with is singing the song and performing the
> music. NO dancing that I've seen.
> 
> The Poxy Boggards recorded a very nice version on their "Barley Legal" CD.
> 
> 
> Norman
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ian Andrew Engle
> > Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 12:34 PM
> > To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Directions sought for "I Care Not..." and "Pastime..."
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
> >
> >> To everyone else: I now have the directions for "I Care Not", but don't
> yet
> >> have "Pastime."  I'm told "Pastime" was a popular RenFaire dance.
> >
> > It does not come from any 16th or 17th century dance source with
> > which I am familiar.
> >
> > Being interested in choreographic practices of that time period
> > as well as modern attempts to follow in that style, I'd also be
> > interested in seeing what the renfair circuit is doing to that tune.
> >
> >
> > 					--Ian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:29:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:30:25 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: [Fwd: Announcing New Dance Notation Bureau Web Site]
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C35CA91.92AF2B0C-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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FYI.

Philippe Callens

Ilene Fox wrote:

> Dance Notation Bureau is pleased to announce a new and improved web
> site at<http://www.dancenotation.org>.  Designed by Marion Bastien,
> working with DNB Librarian and Webmistress Jill Cirasella, the web
> site is now easier to navigate, contains more information and has a
> new look.
>
> Some of the highlights of the new site:
> - The DNB History section, found under About the DNB, contains
> important milestones in the DNB's history
> - The latest DNB newsletter can be found in the DNB News section.
> - An introduction to Labanotation basics and an explanation of motif
> description provide  overviews for those who do not know anything
> about notation.  They can both be found under Notation Basics.
> - Information on how to learn more Labanotation is listed under
> Studying Labanotation.
> - A new section called Notating Dances tells dance artists how to get
> their works notated.
> - the Staging From the Score section contains a list of solos
> available for staging as well as a listing of works by Doris
> Humphrey.  You can also get answers to your questions about arranging
> a staging from the score.
> - In the DNB Library section, you an download a full catalog of the
> theatrical dances in the DNB collection.
> - Also in the DNB Library section can be found bibliographies and
> finding aids. In addition to a number that are notation related, the
> section also includes a Dance Copyright Bibliography, a Dance and
> Technology Bibliography, and finding aids for Folk and Ethnic Dances
> and for Social Dances.
> - A Theory Bulletin Board to allow international discussions of
> notation issues.
> - The Web Library for Teachers contains teaching materials that can
> be downloaded and used in the classroom.  A cooperative project with
> Southern Methodist University, the library is actively seeking
> contributions from educators.
> - A  listing of notation publications with information on how to
> order them is included.
> - Finally, a links section allows easy access to other sites of interest.
> --
> _______________________________
> Ilene Fox, Executive Director
> Dance Notation Bureau, 151 West 30th Street, Suite 202, New York, NY 10001
> Phone: 212-564-0985   Fax:  212-904-1426  e-mail:  notation-AT-
mindspring.com
> <http://www.dancenotation.org>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 08:17:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:18:22 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Warm up
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <3C35D5CE.344FD6C6-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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I'd like to hear from leaders who, in a country dance context, have used
warm ups before the dancing. What has worked? What hasn't? What did you
have the dancers actually do? Did you incorporarte elements of the the
warm up in the rest of the session?

My question is not so much  geared to "regular/weekly/monthly" dances
(so I know, "Geud Man of Ballangigh" makes a good opener, for example),
rather to workshops, to learning situations.

Thanks.

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:27:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:27:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Look, actual dance content!  Sort of.
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <45.114e2aca.29673fec-AT-
aol.com>
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Okay, before we degenerate any further into fish proverbs....

So, I went to see the Lord of the Rings movie (of course I did) and was 
impressed with the dancing during the birthday party scene.  What I mean is, 
often in a movie the actors look pretty awkward dancing, like the director 
had them given one lesson and then shot the scene and everybody thought other 
things were more important anyway.  That was, for instance, my only quibble 
with the excellent film of Jane Austen's Persuasion released about five years 
ago.

But here, when somebody broke into a dance step it looked downright natural.  
In character, even.  Imagine that.

Also, I noticed two of the characters (Sam amd Rosie, for those who have seen 
or will see it) doing what looked an awful lot like a Ceilidh-type 
swing-and-change.  This got me to thinking about the various races of Middle 
Earth and how they might dance ECD...

You gotta imagine that the Hobbits like to keep it spritely.  I bet round 
dances predominate: no doubt Wibsey Roundabout is popular, and Long Live 
London, and Walpole Cottage.  Also, probably Speed the Plow and Levi-Jackson 
Rag.  

The Dwarves, now, they probably verge over into Celidh, if not indeed Border 
Morris.  Imagine Gimli and his fifteen brothers doing Nottingham Swing.  I 
bet *they* give weight, by gum.  The walls must shake.

In Gondor, I see them favoring set dances, and inclining more to tradition 
than innovation.  I bet they like their dances strong and intensely melodic:  
Prince William, danced with *major* drive.  Maybe "Female Saylor" as a 
sicilian circle.

The Elves?  Wafty triple-times, danced three inches above the ground, with 
really complicated figures.  And geometrically complex set dances with 
intricate formations, dances for 9 couples, or star-shaped sets for 30.  Or 
longways sets with mind-bending progressions:  hands 17 from the top.  Elves 
have lots of time.

The Ents?  Hummmmmm.....  Hroooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm.......  Let me get 
back to you on that one....
(God, imagine standing through an Entish walk-through.  You could grow old 
and grey!)

Uh, just thinkin'...

Nilos

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:06:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:05:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020104180516.65792.qmail-AT-
web20009.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote:
> If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.  If you give
> a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish
> parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy

Many years ago (maybe 20?) there was whale that washed up on the
coast and for some reason it was decided that the way to get rid
of it was to blow it up with dynamite. Unfortunately there were
many large identifiable parts of whale all over the village. A
Cadillac parked up the beach was destroyed when a large part of
the whale landed on it. Paul Linman was up the beach covering
the story for Channel 2 in Portland and was splattered with
whale meat and blubber. He's still working at the station and
they won't let him live that one down. They still re-run that
story every year on the anniversary.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Boston Playford Ball Announcement and Registration Form
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Dear Felow ECDers,

   Here is the announcement for this year's Boston Playford Ball. At the 
bottom is a form that can be printed out and used for registration. I hope we 
will see many of you there.

Best regards,
Arthur Ferguson
Framingham, MA

--------------------------------------------------------------------

             Country Dance Society, Boston Centre, Presents
                        The Twenty Second Annual
                          BOSTON PLAYFORD BALL
             Saturday, March 2, 2002 * 8:00 PM to Midnight
                                   at
                 Monument Hall, Concord, Massachusetts

                Helene Cornelius, Mistress of Ceremonies
                       Music by Bare Necessities

          Afternoon Workshop:         Leaders: Brad Foster    
          Monument Hall                        Barbara Finney
          1:30-4:30 PM                Musicians: Megan Henderson
                                                 David Langford

                                PROGRAM
   Bar a Bar * Barbarini's Tambourine * The Black Boy * The Boatman * 
Cottey House * An Enchanted Place * Joy After Sorrow * King of Poland * 
Love's Triumph * Mayfair * The Merry Conclusion * Newcastle * Nonesuch *
    Sadler's Wells * Sarah * Sellenger's Round * A Shropshire Lass *  
  Sion House * A Trip to Amsterdam * When Laura Smiles * The Wood Duck

                            COST PER PERSON
   $25.00 for registrations postmarked on or before January 15, 2002
       $30.00 for registrations postmarked after January 15, 2002

                           PRE-BALL WORKSHOP
Sunday, February 24 2:00-5:00 PM at the Park Avenue Congregational Church
                    Arlington Heights, Massachusetts
       $6.00 for Those Registered for the Ball;  $9.00 for Others
            Helene Cornelius, Leader;   Ken Allen, Musician

                           MAKE A WEEKEND OF IT!
      Come to the First Friday English Dance for Experienced Dancers 
     on Friday, March 1, 8:15-11:00 PM, at the Church of Our Saviour, 
               Carlton and Monmouth Streets in Brookline, MA
             Brad Foster, Leader; Jacqueline Schwab, Musician

  For information on the Ball or the First Friday Dance please contact 
    Terry Gaffney: Telephone - (617) 524-8869; Email - gaff-AT-
neu.edu

 Gender balance will be taken into consideration with preference given to 
                       CDS, Boston Centre, members.

**************************************************************************
                             REGISTRATION FORM

Names(s) (for nametags) __________________________________________________

                        __________________________________________________

Address __________________________________________________________________

City __________________________  State ______  ZIP  ______________________

Phone (day) ________________________  (evening) __________________________

____ (number) -AT-
 $25.00/person or $30.00/person = __________ Total Enclosed

Please make checks payable to Country Dance Society, Boston Centre and mail 
with your registration to Lyrl Ahern, 298 Central Street, Acton, MA 01720 



--Boundary_(ID_HYIrkTrbO5yBHrttM0xe+w)
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Dear Felow ECDers,
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;Here is the announcement for this year's Boston Playford Ball. At the bottom is a form that can be printed out and used for registration. I hope we will see many of you there.
<BR>
<BR>Best regards,
<BR>Arthur Ferguson
<BR>Framingham, MA</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="FIXED" FACE="Courier New" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Country Dance Society, Boston Centre, Presents
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The Twenty Second Annual
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;BOSTON PLAYFORD BALL
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Saturday, March 2, 2002 * 8:00 PM to Midnight
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;at
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Monument Hall, Concord, Massachusetts
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Helene Cornelius, Mistress of Ceremonies
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Music by Bare Necessities
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Afternoon Workshop: &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Leaders: Brad Foster &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Monument Hall &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Barbara Finney
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;1:30-4:30 PM &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Musicians: Megan Henderson
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;David Langford
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;PROGRAM
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;Bar a Bar * Barbarini's Tambourine * The Black Boy * The Boatman * 
<BR>Cottey House * An Enchanted Place * Joy After Sorrow * King of Poland * 
<BR>Love's Triumph * Mayfair * The Merry Conclusion * Newcastle * Nonesuch *
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Sadler's Wells * Sarah * Sellenger's Round * A Shropshire Lass * &nbsp;
<BR> &nbsp;Sion House * A Trip to Amsterdam * When Laura Smiles * The Wood Duck
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;COST PER PERSON
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;$25.00 for registrations postmarked on or before January 15, 2002
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;$30.00 for registrations postmarked after January 15, 2002
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;PRE-BALL WORKSHOP
<BR>Sunday, February 24 2:00-5:00 PM at the Park Avenue Congregational Church
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Arlington Heights, Massachusetts
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;$6.00 for Those Registered for the Ball; &nbsp;$9.00 for Others
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Helene Cornelius, Leader; &nbsp;&nbsp;Ken Allen, Musician
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;MAKE A WEEKEND OF IT!
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Come to the First Friday English Dance for Experienced Dancers 
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;on Friday, March 1, 8:15-11:00 PM, at the Church of Our Saviour, 
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Carlton and Monmouth Streets in Brookline, MA
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Brad Foster, Leader; Jacqueline Schwab, Musician
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;For information on the Ball or the First Friday Dance please contact 
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Terry Gaffney: Telephone - (617) 524-8869; Email - gaff-AT-
neu.edu
<BR>
<BR> Gender balance will be taken into consideration with preference given to 
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;CDS, Boston Centre, members.
<BR>
<BR>**************************************************************************
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;REGISTRATION FORM
<BR>
<BR>Names(s) (for nametags) __________________________________________________
<BR>
<BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;__________________________________________________
<BR>
<BR>Address __________________________________________________________________
<BR>
<BR>City __________________________ &nbsp;State ______ &nbsp;ZIP &nbsp;______________________
<BR>
<BR>Phone (day) ________________________ &nbsp;(evening) __________________________
<BR>
<BR>____ (number) -AT-
 $25.00/person or $30.00/person = __________ Total Enclosed
<BR>
<BR>Please make checks payable to Country Dance Society, Boston Centre and mail 
<BR>with your registration to Lyrl Ahern, 298 Central Street, Acton, MA 01720 
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_HYIrkTrbO5yBHrttM0xe+w)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:42:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:47:08 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020104.134709.-118811.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
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On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:05:16 -0800 (PST) Andrew Peterson
<lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com> writes:
>--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote:
>> If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.  If you give
>> a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish
>> parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy
>
>Many years ago (maybe 20?) there was whale that washed up on the
>coast and for some reason it was decided that the way to get rid
>of it was to blow it up with dynamite. Unfortunately there were
>many large identifiable parts of whale all over the village. A
>Cadillac parked up the beach was destroyed when a large part of
>the whale landed on it. Paul Linman was up the beach covering
>the story for Channel 2 in Portland and was splattered with
>whale meat and blubber. He's still working at the station and
>they won't let him live that one down. They still re-run that
>story every year on the anniversary.
>
>Andy
>
>Just to show that he was not his blubber's kipper, eh?
But just another chicken coming home to roast.

Ellen__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
>http://greetings.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:02:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:02:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Scott Higgs & Hold the Mustard, 2002-02-23 (Sat.), Trenton, NJ, USA
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10201041346400.28328-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
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The Princeton Country Dancers and Lambertville Country Dancers invite you
to our eleventh annual "February Fling" English dance party. 

When:	Saturday, February 23, 2002
	2:30-5 p.m. and 7:30-11 p.m.
	(Dinner on your own; there are many restaurants in the
	 neighborhood, or you may picnic in the hall.)

Where:	Bethany Presbyterian Church
	Trenton, NJ

Caller: Scott Higgs

Band:	Hold the Mustard
	(Barbara Greenberg, Daniel Beerbohm, Paul Prestopino, & 
	 Kathy Talvitie)

Evening by pre-registration only; afternoon dance open to walk-ins.  We
usually end up with a waiting list for the evening, so register soon if
you're interested.

Overnight hospitality is available for out-of-town dancers.

For more info. or to request a flyer with registration form, e-mail me or
call 609-620-1751.

Happy new year to all!

Susie Lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:07:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:07:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancing in Middle Earth
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201041401290.12893-100000-AT-
mayhem.kiva.net>
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  Tolkein does describe elves dancing in The Hobbit.  It sounds a lot like 
a Medieval carole (a circle or chain dance to accompany a song).  Tolkein 
was a medievalist, and this is the sort of dancing that would be 
appropriate to the period he studied.
  However, since the material culture of the Shire appears to be centuries 
later than the rest of Middle Earth (downright nineteenth century!) I can 
easily imagine hobbits doing ECD-style dances, while the elves continue 
dancing the way they did a thousand years before.

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:20:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:23:54 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020104113153.00a36c90-AT-
mail.oz.net>
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Hi,

I'm responding to Philippe's question about warm-ups.  But I wasn't sure if 
you were talking about warming up the muscles or the mind.  I've done both, 
the former only for Nonesuch rehearsals.  When half the dancers started 
coming late so as to miss the warm up (nobody is going to make them give up 
their round shoulders!) I stopped doing group warm ups, but encouraged 
people to come early and warm up on their own.

The warm ups I taught (and that more thna half the dancers still do) include

ankle rotation in both directions (anti-shin-splints )
hamstring and calf muscle stretches
spine stretches: rotation, forward bending
pectoral stretching and upper back strengthening (for round shoulders)
periformis stretches (I made them do it because I had to --without that the 
muscle shortens and presses on my leg nerve leading to sciatic 	pain)

For Nonesuch I sometimes do other movement warm-ups to work on 
ensemble.  Set and turn single, over and over until all the turn singles 
stay in a line throughout.  Forward waltz step (this has been 
unsuccessful-- we still have as many variations as there are people in the 
group) forward a double and back in two versions-- smooth with four steps, 
and bounceful with a pas-de-bas at the end.  From time to time I work on 
hands joining in a circle starting from the sides at the same time, 
arriving at the same time.  Most of the group has been together for several 
years and automatically match (in timing and how much space to move 
through) the person in the next minor set doing the same part.

But this is for the performing group where ensemble is very important.  I 
don't do this at dances.  I have just finished a beginner workshop where I 
do some movement warm-ups each time.  These include some of the things I 
wrote about in the "teaching beginners post" a while back.  We stand in a 
circle of couples and go in a double and back, figuring out the weight 
change so its smooth.  We do right and left hand turns forcusing on 
thumbless grip, long relaxed arms, and filling the music.  Same with two 
hand turns.  I focus the rest of the warm-up on whatever skills we'll need 
for the dances of the evening.  I have taken Gene Morrow's advice about 
doing this to music.  Gene says to do this kind of practice to music, and 
people will have the sense that they are dancing. I've found this to be true.

Each evening had a theme:   "holding on and letting go"  "turning lines 
into circles"  "moving in 3/4 and 3/2 time." "pousettes are push-push" 
"circular heys with four, then three, then two beats on a side"

The first class was "holding on and letting go" but I do long relaxed arms 
every class, because tense arms and bent elbows and holding on too long are 
ingrained, especially in contra dancers, and seem to take longer to 
change.   I like people to let go of the hands on rights and lefts when 
they are side by side, not pull the hand behind the other person's back as 
they pass.  I like the change of hands on stars to happen at the end of a 
phrase so the new star forms and starts moving in the new direction on beat 
one. This doesn't automatically happen with beginners.  Letting go takes 
practice.  They forget to do it as soon as we start a dance that has that 
figure.  They really do better learning the skill when they don't also have 
to think about geometry, and it sometimes takes several weeks doing it well 
in the workshop and badly in the dances before it finally transfers to real 
dances.

I like pousettes to go straight out for half the music, and straight back 
arriving in the line at the end of the last beat.  Most people move in a 
circular path, hitting people from the neighboring set-- if they go 
straight out, they'll find a space between the next sets' couples.  Most 
people go out only enough to pass the other couple and come back and wait 
for the end of the phrase,  so we work on going out until the phrase is 
half over, then back arriving just on the last beat.  I'm also a believer 
in Bruce's push-push pousettes and teach them that way so they can 
steer.  The night I taught pousettes we did Knole Park (easy geometry so 
they can think about it) and Cadger's Caper (on the Portland Ball program 
so they were going to do it two weeks later at a dance)  where the 
pousettes get 12 beats and they have to keep going out for 6 beats before 
changing direction.

I teach setting, and we practice it until people are doing a pas-de-bas and 
not a two step variant.  (Its where the hiccup comes-- it should come 
between the end of one pas-de-bas and the beginning of the next, but many 
people put it in the middle-- glide, leap step.)  Then we do a dance with 
setting and practice it in context.  A woman who has been dancing for two 
years came up and thanked me after the class.  She hadn't noticed the 
difference until I pointed it out, and she has been really working at 
setting since then and is now doing it correctly.

The first time we do a dance in 3/4 time I teach forward waltz in the warm 
up, and also practice the long-armed hand turns because in waltz time there 
are 12 beats to each turn instead of eight, and they really need to lenthen 
the arms to make a big enough circle to use all the music.

A skill I'd like to have spent more time on is making circles out of 
lines.  I like to be in a circle before startng to circle left, so I teach 
people to form the circle at the end of the preceding phrase.  In Fandango, 
for instance (I'm trying to pick a dance most readers will know without 
running to their notecards) at the end of the A2, the threes move up. I 
teach them to move up for two beats and OUT, stepping back on the third 
beat and closing on the fourth beat in a circle, ready to slip left.   In 
other dances the ones cast off into second place, and if they don't come 
all the way into the line, but stay just a bit behind it, they'll be in a 
ring.  Same with the gates in The Bishop.  We only had time for two 
examples, and I don't think the dancers will automatically do this every 
time they meet lines becomming circles in dances.  But hopefully they 'lll 
do it in St. Margaret's Hill at our ball  cause that's the one we 
practiced.  For that one, the lines fall back, the lines come forward and 
all 6 circle left.  I teach the middle person in the line to go  "back back 
back: forward, forward, back"  The one step back for the middle person 
while the ends continue forward turns the lines into a circle for the 
circle left.

If all the people had signed up for just the workshop and came to make 
their dancing better, I'd be doing very simple dances so they could think 
about the skills and not have to worry about the complicated geometry of 
the dances.  But half the class are beginners, there to learn the basics, 
and the other half are experienced dancers, who come to learn ball dances, 
or just to have another excuse to dance.  THey'd be bored doing only very 
easy dances all the time, and their presence is very helpful in modeling 
good dancing for the beginners.  Since our ball is called, it isn't 
necessary to learn the ball dances ahead of time, but some people are 
insecure, or learn slowly and like a head start.   So to help them to 
learn, not just the ball dances formations, but how to dance them 
beautifully, and to give the experienced dancers interesting dances worth 
coming out on a tuesday night for, I made my list of skills, and then went 
through the ball lists for this year's Portland and Seattle balls and chose 
dances that illustrated those skills.

I know I come from a very different orientation than most dancers.  If you 
read my article in the Nov. CDSS magazine you know that I don't regard the 
geometry of the dances as the only thing ECD is about.  I think most 
dancers do, and most callers, even though they'd love to see people moving 
in unison, filling the music, dancing beautifully, are pressured into 
teaching just the figures of the next dance, learning one sequence after 
another.  I wouldn't do any of this workshopping at a Friday dance after 
8pm but we have a beginner workshop for the half hour before the dance and 
I use it for this kind of work and not so much for learning the terminology 
and figures.  At the workshops, which were called that, where the emphasis 
is on dancing well, learning from the beginning, its been a lot easier to 
get away with more teaching of skills.  And once started at the first 
workshop, it came to be the expectation that there would be a 
warm-up.  Maybe there would be one easy dance before the teaching session, 
then some practice of skills to music, then dances that use those skills.

And no matter what kind of dance I'm calling or teaching, even if there is 
no teaching session, the first dance of any evening is very very easy.  It 
lets me see how people respond-- do an assessment of the group--and it lets 
the dancers relax ("oh, this is fine, I can do this") and just come 
together for fun.  So maybe this could also be called part of the "warm-up" 
for any dance, even if there isn't a teaching session.

But this is my personal view of things.  I care about people moving well, 
dancing with good ensemble because they feel more connected to each other 
that way, filling the music and the space.  Not all dancers care about 
those things and resent any attempt to teach anything other than the 
figures of the next dance.  When I was first married I read a book called 
"Confessions of a Sneaky Cook"  which was about getting more vitamins and 
nutrients into yummy food in a way that didn't let the eater know that it 
was "healthy."   I feel like that as a dance teacher as well.  People come 
to learn dances, and what I want to teach them is dancing-- not just the 
formations but the things that make them good dancers.  I guess I'm just a 
sneaky cook.




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:45:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:44:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Look, actual dance content!  Sort of.
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201041644070.19414-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
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On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
>
> You gotta imagine that the Hobbits like to keep it spritely.  I bet round
> dances predominate: no doubt Wibsey Roundabout is popular, and Long Live
> London, and Walpole Cottage.  Also, probably Speed the Plow and Levi-Jackson
> Rag.

  Recall that popular among young hobbits in the springle-ring, "a pretty
dance, but rather vigorous", involving hand-bells.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:32:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:39:48 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Technique notes
To: ECD Mailing List <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E16MctC-0005BG-00.2002-01-04-22-32-38-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
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I have written many sets of Dance Technique notes over the years for use in
workshops at Festivals and other places.  I'm thinking of putting them on my
website, but before that I would like some feedback on whether people would be
interested, and any other relevant points.

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW website http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:32:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:37:32 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD Mailing List <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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I am running a series of workshops for the Hertfordshire Folk Association on
"Dancing with a Step" on three consecutive Sundays - 20th January, 27th January
and 3rd February - at the Free Church Hall, Gernon Road, Letchworth (just off
Norton Way South) from 2.30 pm to 4.45 pm.  Further details and a map are
available from Roger Barnes: 01727 851987.

The "Dancing English" were once known for their use of steps, but these days
everything tends to be walked.  In these workshops I will be looking at steps
as well as dances.  Rant, polka, pas de bas, single-skip, skip-change, slip and
waltz will be taking their place alongside the dance walk (which will also be
given a wash and brush up).  The idea is not to exhaust you with a whole
afternoon of rants and polkas, but to remind you of the variety available in
English Country Dance.  The dances will be interesting, including one or two
Scottish, not all energetic, and I hope to show you that the use of steps can
add to your enjoyment of dancing.  Unfortunately I have had a bad back/leg for
over three months, caused by mixing concrete (click the "Our House" button on
my website to see why) so I won't be able to show you the steps myself, but I
will find some suitable volunteers!

Colin Hume
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW website http://www.colinhume.com


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Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:53:10 PST
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Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:37:43 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Technique notes
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yes I would be interested - they'd be most helpful
Dianna
Houston, Texas, USA

----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin Hume" <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
To: "ECD Mailing List" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Dance Technique notes


| I have written many sets of Dance Technique notes over the years for use
in
| workshops at Festivals and other places.  I'm thinking of putting them on
my
| website, but before that I would like some feedback on whether people
would be
| interested, and any other relevant points.
|
| Colin Hume
| NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW website http://www.colinhume.com
|
|
|

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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 10:10:37 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Dance Technique notes
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Dear Colin:

> I have written many sets of Dance Technique notes over the years for use in
> workshops at Festivals and other places.  I'm thinking of putting them on my
> website, but before that I would like some feedback on whether people would be
> interested, and any other relevant points.

As a teacher with my own group in Bedford, Nova Scotia, I am
much appreciative of both your music and dances. But I am
too far removed [financially and distance wise] to be able
to physically come to any of your workshops. In that
respect I am "out in the boondocks!"

So, yes, I would find it a great boon to have access to your
writings on dance techniques.

Sincere regards, John

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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:00:25 PST
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:00:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: New Haven Ball
To: ECD-AT-
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Friends,
As of this writing, there are still some spaces left for the New
Haven Ball, January 26, 2002, but they are filling quickly.  If you
are interested in attending, you should act now.  A registration form
is included at the bottom of this post.  Remember, this is not a
gender-balanced event, so even single men who wait until the last
minute will not get in unless there are cancellations.

The program is listed below.

The Geud Man of Ballangigh
Childgrove
A New Beginning
Alterations
Early Frost
Kelsterne Gardens
Jack's Health
Shropshire Lass
Wa Is Me What Mun I Do?
Dublin Bay
Puck's Deceit
Fandango
Sally in Our Alley
St. Martin's Lane
Nonesuch
Round About Our Coalfire
Apley House
St. Margaret's Hill
Fenterlarick
Margaret's Waltz

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Elm City English Dance Ball 2002 Registration form
Name(s) (as they will appear on name tags)
 _________________________________________________________  	

Address  	
 _________________________________________________________ 
 	
 _________________________________________________________ 

 _________________________________________________________  	
 	
Phone  (day)_____________________  (evening) ___________________	

email ___________________________________________

Number of registrants -AT-
 $25 each ___   Total included ____________

Please Include Checks Payable to: New Haven Country Dancers   
Mail to: Bonnie Lassen, 77 W. 85th St. Apt. 5E, New York, NY 10024

_________(number) wishing home hospitality   _________(number) of
guests I / we can offer hospitality 
(please mention any special circumstances, e.g. pets,  pet allergies,
smoking/no smoking, etc. on back)


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:19:37 PST
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 14:19:31 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[216.170.168.6]>
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Whale of a video available for download:
http://www.perp.com/whale/video.html

Andrew Peterson wrote:  

>--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote:
>> If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.  If you give
>> a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable fish
>> parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy
>
>Many years ago (maybe 20?) there was whale that washed up on the
>coast and for some reason it was decided that the way to get rid
>of it was to blow it up with dynamite. Unfortunately there were
>many large identifiable parts of whale all over the village. A
>Cadillac parked up the beach was destroyed when a large part of
>the whale landed on it. Paul Linman was up the beach covering
>the story for Channel 2 in Portland and was splattered with
>whale meat and blubber. He's still working at the station and
>they won't let him live that one down. They still re-run that
>story every year on the anniversary.
>
>Andy
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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:36:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:36:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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---Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:
> I know I come from a very different orientation than most
> dancers.  If you read my article in the Nov. CDSS magazine you
> know that I don't regard the geometry of the dances as the
only
> thing ECD is about.

Which is exactly why I would rather do easy dances well than do
dances that are so complicated that even the experienced dancers
are unsure of what they are doing. Brain twisters are not
enjoyable to me because everyone is working so hard at thinking
about the geometry that they can't relax and actually dance.
They can't comfortably relate to the others in the set because
they are too worried about not makeing a mistake.

In a performance rehearsal situation I've often worked on
complex dances until I can hardly bear to ever do them again,
but for enjoyment in a relaxed evening of social dancing the
luxury of repeating the complexities until everyone understands
them just isn't possible. I've learned complex dances at
workshops never to dance them again because they can't be taught
in a normal evening. One that comes to mind is a beautiful
(square) quadrille that Richard Powers taught at the Mazurka
Week in Port Townsend in 1988. There's only been one opportunity
to dance it since and it's rare that I've been in a room with 7
other people who were at that dance week, not even considering
whether all eight of us could remember that dance. (Maybe Frank
Clayton and Mike Richardson do.)

I remember one of my brief forays into International dancing
many years ago. The teacher never reviewed dances that he taught
and he seemed more intent on impressing people with how many
different dances he knew than with teaching a few dances well
enough that people actually learned them. I never have learned
well by getting behind a line of dancers and trying to follow
what the guy in front of me is doing. We have an International
dancer that comes to Monday nights and tries to learn
Scandinavian turning dances using the "watch and mimic" method.
It doesn't work when your back is turned half the time. I can't
imagine trying to teach set dances that way, so why do people
think it's the best way to teach other kinds of dancig?

> But this is my personal view of things.  I care about people
> moving well, dancing with good ensemble because they feel more
> connected to each other that way, filling the music and the
> space.  Not all dancers care about those things and resent any
> attempt to teach anything other than the figures of the next
> dance. 

This is what I was trying to get across with my "fish" analogy.
If you teach people how to _dance_ it becomes more enjoyable for
everyone. If you teach people what the terminology means, they
should be able to put the figures together in whatever sequence
they are called without having to spend a lot of time
(re-)learning the pattern of the particular dance being called.
(The Contra medley at NEFFA works because people know what to do
when they hear a particular figure called. It wouldn't work well
at Seattle's NW Folklife Festival because there are too many
beginners and people who don't know the terminology well enough
to just do what the caller calls.) As you teach the terminology,
you also teach them the elegant way to execute it. Many people
just want to be taught the patterns, but in my opinion they
aren't really dancing.

> People come to learn dances, and what I want to teach them is
> dancing-- not just the formations but the things that make
> them good dancers.  I guess I'm just a sneaky cook.
 
The trick is finding ways to teach the formations that include
language about how to dance.

All of which is probably why I enjoy dancing with you. It _is_
all about _how_ you do it and not just getting from point A to
point B.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:44:01 PST
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 12:43:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com> wrote:
> The "Dancing English" were once known for their use of steps,
> but these days everything tends to be walked.  In these
> workshops I will be looking at steps as well as dances.  Rant,
> polka, pas de bas, single-skip, skip-change, slip and waltz
> will be taking their place alongside the dance walk (which
will
> also be given a wash and brush up).  The idea is not to
exhaust
> you with a whole afternoon of rants and polkas, but to remind
> you of the variety available in English Country Dance.

There are many dances that I learned thirty+ years ago with
variations of steps used that no longer are taught with anything
except a walking step. It's that variation that I've always
found so much fun and now when I _do_ use any step besides a
walk I get wierd looks from people. 

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:56:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:49:32 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05010401b85d23f45b70-AT-
[63.214.64.133]>
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Andy wrote:

>There are many dances that I learned thirty+ years ago with
>variations of steps used that no longer are taught with anything
>except a walking step. It's that variation that I've always
>found so much fun and now when I _do_ use any step besides a
>walk I get wierd looks from people.

If we're talking about rant, polka, skip-change, etc, we're still 
doing these in Boston.  And i've seen them at other English dances 
when i've travelled.  Variety never went away.  The "wash and 
brush-up" Colin Hume mentions is still a good idea, as we all could 
use improvement in our style.  But i'd never considered these steps 
unusual or wierd.

Cheers - L
-- 

__________________________________________________
"Oh, yes.  It's vital to remember who you really are.
It's very important.  It isn't a good idea to rely on other
people or things to do it for you, you see.  They always
get it wrong."        (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery")
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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 14:59:22 PST
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 14:59:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
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--- "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net> wrote:
> If we're talking about rant, polka, skip-change, etc, we're
> still doing these in Boston.  And i've seen them at other
> English dances when i've travelled.  Variety never went away. 
> The "wash and brush-up" Colin Hume mentions is still a good
> idea, as we all could use improvement in our style.  But i'd
> never considered these steps unusual or wierd.

I've been out here in the provinces of the Northwest for about
twelve years. I can't even remember the last time I did Morpeth
Rant or any other dance with a rant step in it. (We do Finnish
polka, a very similar step to a travelling rant, at the
Scandinavian dances all the time. Even the people in their 70's
do it.) I know that some teachers don't like rant or find it
hard to do, so they don't teach dances that use it. Much of the
time here dances are taught with a walking step throughout and
people are not learning them with the variation of step, so they
aren't done that way. That's why I get wierd looks when I skip.

It makes sense that people can only teach what they have
learned. There are people that I know who started learning to
call/teach within a fairly short time (in some cases, less than
a year) of when they started attending dances, and some of them,
even though they've been dancing for several years now, have
never learned the subtleties of style that only come with
experience. What they have learned, and are now teaching, is
also subject to what the person they learned from knew to teach.
(I will say that all this is more true of Contra callers than
ECD teachers.) You can't teach style if you don't know it.

To get back to Vicki's long posting and something I keep harping
on, one of the things that improves dancing is how you carry
yourself. Vicki wrote of teaching people to get the slouch out
of their shoulders during warm-up exercises. Lifting your
shoulders and opening up your chest changes the way you carry
yourself when you dance. It makes you dance taller, and
moves/lifts the "center" over which you dance. Slouching tends
to move your center down and make you more dependent on your
legs to move you. Dancing "up"/tall lifts you and brings your
body center up and helps you move with your whole body, and your
legs just follow along and keep you from falling over. That's
one of the important lessons I remember from May Gadd and Genny
Shimer the first time I went to Pinewoods. Some people still
teach people to move that way, but many people don't, and it is
partly because they've never really learned it themselves.
Because I'm fairly tall, I often get accused of taking too big a
step when I dance, but it isn't that I'm taking longer steps
than other people, it's that the way I carry myself makes me
move further than people who are "down". 

I remember a runner from high school who ran the half mile. He
was very upright when he ran, and to watch him from a distance
you could tell that his legs were doing all of the work. Even
then I knew that he could have taken longer strides with less
effort by moving his body center forward and "falling" into his
stride instead of throwing his legs forward and then pulling his
body forward. That's really the way a lot of people dance and
they are the ones who tell me that I'm taking too long a step.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:04:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:04:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching fish to dance (not really ECD)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Yup, that's the one...
Andy

--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Whale of a video available for download:
> http://www.perp.com/whale/video.html
> 
> Andrew Peterson wrote:  
> 
> >--- Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net> wrote:
> >> If you give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.  If you
> give
> >> a man a stick of TNT, there will be little unidentifiable
> fish
> >> parts all over the village. -- Jack Handy
> >
> >Many years ago (maybe 20?) there was whale that washed up on
> the
> >coast and for some reason it was decided that the way to get
> rid
> >of it was to blow it up with dynamite. Unfortunately there
> were
> >many large identifiable parts of whale all over the village.
> A
> >Cadillac parked up the beach was destroyed when a large part
> of
> >the whale landed on it. Paul Linman was up the beach covering
> >the story for Channel 2 in Portland and was splattered with
> >whale meat and blubber. He's still working at the station and
> >they won't let him live that one down. They still re-run that
> >story every year on the anniversary.
> >
> >Andy


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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:34:29 PST
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCPTPDIC8S94MOFP-AT-
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> --- "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net> wrote:
> > If we're talking about rant, polka, skip-change, etc, we're
> > still doing these in Boston.  And i've seen them at other
> > English dances when i've travelled.  Variety never went away.
> > The "wash and brush-up" Colin Hume mentions is still a good
> > idea, as we all could use improvement in our style.  But i'd
> > never considered these steps unusual or wierd.

> I've been out here in the provinces of the Northwest for about
> twelve years. I can't even remember the last time I did Morpeth
> Rant or any other dance with a rant step in it. (We do Finnish
> polka, a very similar step to a travelling rant, at the
> Scandinavian dances all the time. Even the people in their 70's
> do it.) I know that some teachers don't like rant or find it
> hard to do, so they don't teach dances that use it. Much of the
> time here dances are taught with a walking step throughout and
> people are not learning them with the variation of step, so they
> aren't done that way. That's why I get wierd looks when I skip.

I can't speak for how the 'Northwest provinces' dance when only locals  are
around.  However, I've found at the Portland and Seattle balls that  people
will skip, if someone else goes first - and quite a few of them will rant if I
indulge myself by ranting on the hey in "Jack's Maggot".  (I've never had any
takers if I started to rant on the half figure eight in "Cockleshells." (I
don't recall  ever seeing a ball dance that was intended to have a rant in it.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:57:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:57:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> To get back to Vicki's long posting...one of the things
that improves dancing is how you carry yourself. Vicki
wrote of teaching people to get the slouch out of their
shoulders during warm-up exercises....Dancing "up"/tall
lifts you and brings your body center up and helps you move
with your whole body, and your legs just follow along and
keep you from falling over. That's one of the important
lessons I remember from May Gadd and Genny Shimer the first
time I went to Pinewoods.>

Genny used to say, "Get the _egg_ out of the _eggcup_!!"

Lyrl




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Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:33:27 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Workshops in Letchworth
To: ECD-AT-
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Minneapolis Playford ball several times in the past five years.
Usually the first weekend of March.

All the dancers rant...no prompting is necessary.
Morpeth Rant


Skipping in other dances...very common...does not need to be cued or prompted.

Mike

>I can't speak for how the 'Northwest provinces' dance when only locals  are
>around.  However, I've found at the Portland and Seattle balls that  people
>will skip, if someone else goes first - and quite a few of them will rant if I
>indulge myself by ranting on the hey in "Jack's Maggot".  (I've never had any
>takers if I started to rant on the half figure eight in "Cockleshells." (I
>don't recall  ever seeing a ball dance that was intended to have a rant in 
>it.)
>
>-- Alan

Madison English Country Dancers

Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dancers meet
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM.

Dancing
         October through May at the Wilmar Center,
                 953 Jenifer St., Madison,
         June through September in front of Memorial Library,
                 University of Wisconsin-Madison,

For more information, contact

         Mike (mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),
         Frances (fhough-AT-
mailbag.com),
         Jean (608-231-1040) or
         Don (608-238-9951)
Website

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm

Helen Cornelius visits Madison October 15, 2001
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm#New_

--Boundary_(ID_Y+nxEHN2K+IDqTDpCcyo4w)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html>
Minneapolis Playford ball several times in the past five years.<br>
Usually the first weekend of March.<br><br>
All the dancers rant...no prompting is necessary.<br>
Morpeth Rant<br><br>
<br>
Skipping in other dances...very common...does not need to be cued or
prompted.<br><br>
Mike<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I can't speak for how the
'Northwest provinces' dance when only locals&nbsp; are<br>
around.&nbsp; However, I've found at the Portland and Seattle balls
that&nbsp; people<br>
will skip, if someone else goes first - and quite a few of them will rant
if I<br>
indulge myself by ranting on the hey in &quot;Jack's Maggot&quot;.&nbsp;
(I've never had any<br>
takers if I started to rant on the half figure eight in
&quot;Cockleshells.&quot; (I<br>
don't recall&nbsp; ever seeing a ball dance that was intended to have a
rant in it.)<br><br>
-- Alan</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<b>Madison English Country Dancers<br><br>
</b><i>Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dancers meet<br>
on the first and third Mondays of the month from 7:30-9:30 PM. <br>
&nbsp;<br>
Dancing <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>October
through May at the Wilmar Center, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>953
Jenifer St., Madison,<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>June
through September in front of Memorial Library, <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>University
of Wisconsin-Madison,<br><br>
For more information, contact<br>
&nbsp;<br>
</i><x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab><i>Mike
(mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net),<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Frances
(fhough-AT-
mailbag.com), <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Jean
(608-231-1040) or <br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Don
(608-238-9951)<br>
</i>Website <br><br>
<b><a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm</a></b>
<br><br>
Helen Cornelius visits Madison October 15, 2001<br>
<a href="http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm#New" eudora="autourl">http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm#New</a>_</html>

--Boundary_(ID_Y+nxEHN2K+IDqTDpCcyo4w)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 02:01:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 17:47:06 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Technique notes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020105174706.007b7b70-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <E16MctC-0005BG-00.2002-01-04-22-32-38-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>

someone wrote:
>I am "out in the boondocks!"

I may not be quite so far away, perhaps, but I too would appreciate reading
your notes, Colin.

Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 10:33:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:45:49 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Technique notes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003001c196e0$d4e1e7e0$af9901d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <E16MctC-0005BG-00.2002-01-04-22-32-38-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>

Colin,

Even though I've been to many of your workshops, it would still be
interesting to read what you are saying/teaching.  So, yes please!

Trev.



> I have written many sets of Dance Technique notes over the years for
use in
> workshops at Festivals and other places.  I'm thinking of putting them
on my
> website, but before that I would like some feedback on whether people
would be
> interested, and any other relevant points.
>
> Colin Hume
> NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW website http://www.colinhume.com
>




_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:30:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:12:38 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020106.163054.-1933553.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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There have been a couple of references (from those who live west of the
San Andreas Fault, apparently) to RenFair dances, which I presume are an
offshoot of the Society of Creative Anachronisms.

Could someone please post more detail about what these are & how they
differ from standard ECD versions & even why?  It seems like an
interesting side-shoot, so to speak.

Allison
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Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:30:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:28:43 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020106.163054.-1933553.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just to add a bit more to this thread, yesterday I taught a 1 hour
afternoon workshop and then led about 1 hour of dances in the evening for
Chatham Baroque's Third Annual Twelfth Night event, which is a major
blast.

The 7 attendees at the workshop had never done any dancing.  We got
through basic movements/vocabulary OK, but I realized once again that
what blows beginners away is the progression of a longways set.  Without
a leavening of experienced dancers, a lw set, without enough opportunity
to teach, is disaster.

I hastily rearranged my evening program and ended up doing.

Lucky 7 (circle mixer)
Margate Hoy (3C--blessings on whoever posted about this dance--it's great
for this kind of occasion!)
Lady Godiva's Galop (4C--something I sort of invented with galops & stars
& a cast of all with 2C etc coming up under 1C arch at bottom)
Another mixer in different formation whose name I forget

and then they still wanted to do more and I did

Northern Nancy (1721) which is a very simple lw and, sure enough, it fell
apart after about 8 rounds.  Several of the individuals there (darlings,
but older & clueless) had sat out all the other dances & then came out
for just this one.

It went very well, but it confirmed my belief that whole set dances work
best for special events.

Allison  
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 14:09:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:09:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200201062209.g06M90305825-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Allison M Thompson writes:
> 
> The 7 attendees at the workshop had never done any dancing.  We got
> through basic movements/vocabulary OK, but I realized once again that
> what blows beginners away is the progression of a longways set.  Without
> a leavening of experienced dancers, a lw set, without enough opportunity
> to teach, is disaster.

   To some degree this depends on how the progression occurs.  If the dancers
have to turn to face the correct direction or remember to look for new
neighbors, etc., then you are correct, it generally doesn't work and the
dance will probably be a bit of a mess.  However if you choose your dances
wisely such that the progression is of the form "pass these neighbors by and
meet new neighbors", then this will generally be successful.  I've had very
good experiences using dances like this in both longways and Sicilian circle
formations with totally inexperienced dancers.  My greatest success may have
been teaching 300 18 year old college freshmen at a dance at the end of
their orientation day at Knox college in Galesburg, IL.  When I said "pass
your neighbors by and meet new neighbors" suddenly eveyone went "Aaah!" as
they all "got" it.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:01:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 19:46:32 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pas de Bas
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020106.200211.-1933553.5.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Pas de bas should really be "Pas de Basque"

Allison
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Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:01:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 19:51:57 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dancing in Middle Earth
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020106.200211.-1933553.7.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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Perceptive comment!

Allison (aka Pippin (when I was in fifth grade--ok, maybe older, too)




On Fri, 04 Jan 2002 14:07:14 -0500 (EST) Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
writes:
>   Tolkein does describe elves dancing in The Hobbit.  It sounds a lot 
> like 
> a Medieval carole (a circle or chain dance to accompany a song).  
> Tolkein 
> was a medievalist, and this is the sort of dancing that would be 
> appropriate to the period he studied.
>   However, since the material culture of the Shire appears to be 
> centuries 
> later than the rest of Middle Earth (downright nineteenth century!) 
> I can 
> easily imagine hobbits doing ECD-style dances, while the elves 
> continue 
> dancing the way they did a thousand years before.
> 
> --Mary Railing
> 

________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:50:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:26:14 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20020106151952.00b45738-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 04:12 PM 1/6/2002 -0500, Allison M Thompson wrote:
>There have been a couple of references (from those who live west of the
>San Andreas Fault, apparently) to RenFair dances, which I presume are an
>offshoot of the Society of Creative Anachronisms.

Quick correction: RenFair refers to the Northern & Southern California
Renaissance Faires, produced by the Living History Centre.  Although many
SCA members participate in the Faires, and many Faire workers attend
occasional SCA events, neither group is an offshoot of the other.  Also,
while some troupes dancing at the Faires originated in Society for Creative
Anachronism dance groups, many did not: a major, non-SCA troupe I recall
was led by the early dance scholar Angene Feves.  

Sharon Green (once & future Californian)





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:42:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:43:38 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEGEFPDAAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually I live 5 miles east of the main San Andreas Fault and about 15
miles west of the Hayward Fault. We sure do have a lot of them in
California.

Our group, The Merrie Pryanksters, perform dances from Playford's first
edition (1650). The 2 exceptions are Child Grove and Ashford Reunion.

My experience has shown that we tend to dance the dances faster than social
dance groups.


Norman Bradley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Allison M Thompson
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:13 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re:RenFair
>
>
> There have been a couple of references (from those who live west of the
> San Andreas Fault, apparently) to RenFair dances, which I presume are an
> offshoot of the Society of Creative Anachronisms.
>
> Could someone please post more detail about what these are & how they
> differ from standard ECD versions & even why?  It seems like an
> interesting side-shoot, so to speak.
>
> Allison
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:50:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:51:43 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEIEFPDAAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Renaissance Pleasure Faires, North and South, are now run by the
Renaissance Entertainment Corp.

There are about 10 different fairs in Northern California. Only 3 are
multiple weekend fairs. They are the, Valhalla, Renaissance Pleasure Faire
and Marin Renaissance Faire.

Norman Bradley

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Sharon Green
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:26 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re:RenFair
>
>
> At 04:12 PM 1/6/2002 -0500, Allison M Thompson wrote:
> >There have been a couple of references (from those who live west of the
> >San Andreas Fault, apparently) to RenFair dances, which I presume are an
> >offshoot of the Society of Creative Anachronisms.
>
> Quick correction: RenFair refers to the Northern & Southern California
> Renaissance Faires, produced by the Living History Centre.  Although many
> SCA members participate in the Faires, and many Faire workers attend
> occasional SCA events, neither group is an offshoot of the other.  Also,
> while some troupes dancing at the Faires originated in Society
> for Creative
> Anachronism dance groups, many did not: a major, non-SCA troupe I recall
> was led by the early dance scholar Angene Feves.
>
> Sharon Green (once & future Californian)
>
>
>
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:32:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:32:15 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.33.0201062258281.8240-100000-AT-
tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Sun, 6 Jan 2002, Allison M Thompson wrote:

 . . . but I realized once again that
> what blows beginners away is the progression of a longways set.  Without
> a leavening of experienced dancers, a lw set, without enough opportunity
> to teach, is disaster.
>
> I hastily rearranged my evening program and ended up doing

[various other sorts of dances]

> and then they still wanted to do more and I did
>
> Northern Nancy (1721) which is a very simple lw and, sure enough, it fell
> apart after about 8 rounds.  Several of the individuals there (darlings,
> but older & clueless) had sat out all the other dances & then came out
> for just this one.

After watching a group of beginners struggle with progressions, I came up
with a scheme for rating the difficulty of progressive dances, especially
as they might be experienced by beginners in sessions without significant
numbers of experienced dancers present.  It considered primarily questions
of orientation and where the progression came in the dance; a figure which
returned everyone to "home" place is the simplest; figures which don't,
but which combine with other figures to return them to "home" (e.g.
corners cross, circle 1/2) are a notch higher on the difficulty.  Figures
which leave the minor set are quite a few steps higher.  Figures with lots
of symmetry are preferred over asymmetric ones, etc.

On this scale, Northern Nancy came out as a particularly desirable one to
use in these situations.  My experience, on trying this out, is that its
very shortness makes it more difficult than somewhat longer dances if they
don't have more difficult figures: the progression comes too quickly!  If
that's the hardest part of the dance, then you don't want to do it too
often; you want to maximize their enjoyment by giving them enough that
they can do in one minor set to give them a feeling of accomplishment
before moving on, and Northern Nancy and some others (The Mary & Dorothy
is another one like this) are _so_ short that one round is over before
they realize it.

On the other hand, there's an element of difficulty if there are too many
different figures, so dances that have a certain amount of repetition
built in are often good -- first corners do something, second corners do
it, right hands across, left hands back, etc. so that the amount that has
to be remembered isn't too challenging and yet it fills up a fair amount
of time & music and is interesting and varied enough to be fun -- with a
progression that leaves them, as Jonathan has observed, facing the next
ones they are to dance with at the time that they are ready to start doing
this, are good choices for progressive dances to begin with.  Dances like
Mulberry Garden, which start the new cycle with all facing up, break the
connection to the next couple and turn an otherwise simple dance into a
very confusing one.  Similarly, figures which can be disorienting when the
progression requires that one remember which way one is headed can also
make a simple dance break down -- I had tried "I care not for these
ladies" only to have one or two dancers get confused every time which way
around the circle they were going, and that caused enough chaos (and
caused others to wonder if they were wrong) to wreak havoc upon the entire
circle.

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 01:27:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:26:17 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020107102617.007b1c60-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Allison mentioned the problem of progression of a longways set ... ->
disaster.

Jonathan claimed that using the right language will iron out all the problems.

Trouble is, what seems to be the right language to some will be meaningless
to others.
I have long felt that learning correct progression is hard (ok -- lots of
other things like comportment, weight, hands etc can be hard to teach, but
ignorance of these will not bring a set to a stop), and beginners take a
while to get the idea that active couples have to start their sequence
again straightaway, or turn into supporting cps by remaining within the set
and not standing back to get a better view, nor going to collapse in a chair.

Even is square sets (which I consider easier for beginners) I have
sometimes noticed that they don't always expect to continue after
completing a sequence, but tend to stand there waiting for someone to
congratulate them on getting through the figures !

I keep to round the room couple dances and mixers most of the time when I
find myself in front of a roomful of newcomers, and move onto more typical
formations if and only if there are other sessions with the same public.
Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 05:29:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:29:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, M Sheffield wrote:
>
> Allison mentioned the problem of progression of a longways set ... ->
> disaster.
>
> Jonathan claimed that using the right language will iron out all the problems.
>
> Trouble is, what seems to be the right language to some will be meaningless
> to others.


True.

> . . . to get the idea that active couples have to start their sequence
> again straightaway,

How many teachers have their dancers walk through the transition?  How
many, rather, just say as they are turning to the band or player, "And
start the next round right away. . .?"

> I keep to round the room couple dances and mixers most of the time when I
> find myself in front of a roomful of newcomers, and move onto more typical
> formations if and only if there are other sessions with the same public.

Good solution.  Also good way is to use once and to the bottom three or
four couple sets.  You don't know any?  Make them up.  Use the figures
you've just taught them in the round the room dances.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)


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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:05:42 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:05:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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M Sheffield writes:
> 
> 
> Allison mentioned the problem of progression of a longways set ... ->
> disaster.
> 
> Jonathan claimed that using the right language will iron out all the problems.

   I was not referring to the language specifically.  It is true that there
are times when I feel that if I could just find the right words everyone would
understand correctly and everything would be fine.  However I do know that
everyone learns in different ways and so the correct words for one person
would not necessarily be the correct words for someone else.

   In my earlier message I was focussing on the actual figures of the dance.
I probably chose the wrong words (again!) and was unclear.  My point, which
was made in a more complete fashion by Eric, was that if you choose dances
where the progression is for the couples in each minor set to face each other,
as they have been doing all through the dance, and pass each other by thus
automagically meeting another couple, then these will generally be successful
even with groups of inexperienced dancers.  My experience has been that
the difficulties arise when the dancers have to remember which way they
should be heading.  The worst I have found are dances where they end on
the side of the set (i.e. after a ladies chain or rights and lefts) and
have to remember not only which way to face to meet new neighbors, but the
very fact that it is now time to go on to new neighbors.

Jonathan

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|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:42:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:42:31 -0500 (EST)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Teaching progression
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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At this fall's "Pourparler" conference, John Krumm taught us "the world's
shortest contra dance." We took hands four to establish minor sets, then did
something like this:

Circle left, once around
Balance the circle, pass through to the next

[I may not have the actual figures correct in my memory, but it was something
like this. The official dance is the Camp Hill Contra.]

People reading this, counting out the figures, are probably saying, "Huh? That's
a B2 part? What about A1, A2, B1?"

Nope, that was all. The band struck up a tune and we danced it, over and over
and over again. We danced it to the A1, the A2, the B1, and theB2 as well. And
then again. And again. Boy, did everyone learn that progression. (Mind you, all
this was fun-- we were dancing, moving, meeting lots of people as we progressed
quickly along the lines!)

"Oh," John said, "there's another part of the dance that I forgot to teach you."
And he then taught us the part that came before the part we had learned, so now
we had the B1 and the B2, two parts of a dance, culminating with the
already-learned progression.

And then he added the next piece, the A2, and finally the A1.

He recounted his experiences teaching dancing to a group of students with Down
Syndrome; this was how he taught progression.

His point was, "Find the piece that needs working on, and work on it." It
reminds me of a workshop ("Dancing with Style") that Lisa Greenleaf presented at
last year's Ralph Page weekend. Lisa wanted people to work on the swing, so she
had us form a large circle with partners:

Into the center and back; repeat
Swing the next

That was all, but we did it over and over again... Lots of practice swinging,
giving feedback to our many partners... It was a good teaching tool.

Lots of different ways to teach. Sometimes we get so stuck on _our_ agenda, to
present that wonderful old dance "Miss Quimberly's Conceit" that we forget that
the dancers on the floor might not give a fig for poor Miss Quimberly ("I Care
Not for This Lady"?), and that they would be happier learning something _very_
simple and being successful with that.

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:32:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:32:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> ...My experience has been that the difficulties arise when the
> dancers have to remember which way they should be heading. 
> The worst I have found are dances where they end on the side
> of the set (i.e. after a ladies chain or rights and lefts) and
> have to remember not only which way to face to meet new
> neighbors, but the very fact that it is now time to go on to
> new neighbors.

I've also found it to be a problem in dances that finish with
swinging your opposite on the side, then turning to face the
next couple. 

This thread has mainly addressed the situation from the
perspective of having a room full of beginners with very few
experienced people, but the problem is found frequently in
situations where most of the participants are "experienced".
There's one problem that I have with this discussion, and that
is the concept that it's always up to each individual to
remember which way they need to go as if the person they are
leaving has no responsibility. It is very important to remember
that the role of leading includes sending the other person in
the right direction. Traditionally that's the man's job, but
woman can lead, too. I _always_ try to finish a figure by
guiding the other person in the right direction for the next
figure whether I'm leaving them or meeting them someplace else
in the set. Problems of orientation occur mostly because someone
didn't do this. That's more than likely because they didn't
learn that it was part of the job. Helping each other is part of
dancing _with_ other people and people don't always learn this.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:45:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:45:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, M Sheffield wrote:
> > Trouble is, what seems to be the right language to some will
> > be meaningless to others.
> 
--- "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu> wrote:
> True.

One thing that many people say to beginners is "Give weight". As
experienced dancers we know what that means, but I realized a
while back that telling it to beginners is ludicrous. They have
no idea what you mean until someday when they suddenly
experience the feeling for the first time. I think it is
important to teach them the concept of giving by explaining that
a swing, or allemande or other figure where you are turning
around another person is a matter of finding a balance between
you that supports both of you equally. Circles (whether three or
fifty people) are another place where people don't understand
the importance of working together to make it happen. Gates are
often the worst imbalance of all.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:13:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:13:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Even is square sets (which I consider easier for beginners) I
> have sometimes noticed that they don't always expect to
> continue after completing a sequence, but tend to stand there
> waiting for someone to congratulate them on getting through
> the figures !

One idea that beginners aren't taught, and don't always realize
until they have been dancing for a long time, if ever, is the
idea that you aren't going _to_ a place, but are moving
_through_ it into the next figure. You always need to be
thinking ahead to where you are going next. Because the dance is
always taught in pieces, after which they always end standing in
a certain place, they don't realize that they aren't supposed to
stop in that place, but should continue to move. That's part of
phrasing to the music, the idea of moving through a space as you
cross from one phrase of music to the next. I have to say that
it's not just a problem for beginners becuase even people that
I've danced with in performing groups pause when they reach a
place then move out of it rather than moving smoothly through
it.

Another thing that beginners don't learn for some time is that
if you are behind you don't have to finish the figure you are
doing, but are allowed to skip over it and go directly to where
you need to be. I know that it's part of following the learned
pattern and that disrupting the pattern only adds to confusion,
but they also get flustered because they realize they are behind
and don't know how to fix it. Then some frustrated "experienced"
dancer shoves or jerks them in the direction they need to go and
they are thinking more about the pain in their arm and the
rudeness of being jerked around than they are about the dance.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:24:06 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:03:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Priscilla wrote:

> How many teachers have their dancers walk through the transition?  How
> many, rather, just say as they are turning to the band or player, "And
> start the next round right away. . .?"

I was painfully reminded of this on Saturday night, when I called at  "The
Highwayman's Ball," a costume event with about 100 people there, with a mixture
of morris dancers, BACDS country dancers, RenFaire country dancers, ballroom
dancers, and people who appeared to have no dance experience, some of whom
couldn't figure out which was right and which was left  .(People who do 
RenFaire performance dance often turn out to know the dances their group does
as units, rather than having broken them down into figures, and often are
happier with set dances than progressive dances, since they get more practice
with them.  Sometimes they turn out to be superb, sophisticated, analytical
country dancers; you just can't tell.)  I had not assembled the program myself.

I'd had good luck with Duke of Kent's Waltz and Drapers' Gardens, so after my
demo and two walkthroughs of Trip to Paris, I signalled the band to start  from
there (possibly subconsciously influenced by an idea that _everybody_ knows 
Trip to Paris).  Oy, what a mistake.  Usually with rolling starts I eyeball the
people at the top to make sure they're people I expect to be able to come in as
ones without having walked it through, but this time, while I saw familiar
faces, I apparently didn't twig that they were people I'd seen a lot rather
than experienced country dancers.  Two walkthroughs meant that the people who
had to come in as ones - in four different lines - had been standing out for a
round, chatting and glazing over, and they didn't understand that they were
_in_  now.  TtP commences with partner action; you don't interact with the
other  couple until B2, so the second couples didn't have much chance to wake
up the 1s, who then stayed confused.  Interestingly, people who had known
earlier in the evening what "cast off" meant - or at least had been able to
respond appropriately when prompted with that - were stressed enough now that
they couldn't do it, or maybe weren't self-identifying as first couples.

I spent several rounds running from set to set putting out fires, but
recognized that the damage was too widespread and had to shut it down.
A new hands four, one more walkthrough, and the dance started up and ran fine.

Other than that, quite a successful evening, with successful versions of 
Rufty-Tufty, Handel With Care, Duke of Kent, Drapers' Gardens, etc.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:38:46 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:14:40 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Trip to Paris (was progression)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 01:03 PM 1/7/2002 -0700, you wrote:

>Two walkthroughs meant that the people who
>had to come in as ones - in four different lines - had been standing out for a
>round, chatting and glazing over, and they didn't understand that they were
>_in_  now.  TtP commences with partner action; you don't interact with the
>other  couple until B2, so the second couples didn't have much chance to wake
>up the 1s, who then stayed confused. 

You might have had better luck using Wil van den Berg's interpretation of
Trip to Paris, which has a Petronella/Roxburgh Castle-like opening
involving both the Ones & Twos: All 4 facing diagonally set R & L, then
turn single R moving one place to the right in your group of 4.  That done
4x & your Ones are home & ready to take off on their trip.  [Note--your
musicians have to go through the usual A music 2x for this to work.]

I particularly like this interpretation because it eliminates or at least
reduces the nightmarish possibility of dancing TtP in full panniers &
knocking over one's neighbors like bowling pins...  David loves to claim
that ECD is like football, but I'm not convinced...

Much love,
Sharon

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:42:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 13:40:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Trip to Paris (was progression)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Sharon wrote:

> You might have had better luck using Wil van den Berg's interpretation of
> Trip to Paris, which has a Petronella/Roxburgh Castle-like opening
> involving both the Ones & Twos: All 4 facing diagonally set R & L, then
> turn single R moving one place to the right in your group of 4.  That done
> 4x & your Ones are home & ready to take off on their trip.  [Note--your
> musicians have to go through the usual A music 2x for this to work.]

Very interesting, and sounds like fun, but not really an option in the
circumstances (where half the people would have done TtP the way I did call
it regardless of how I called it).  I like Roxburgh Castle a lot myself.

> I particularly like this interpretation because it eliminates or at least
> reduces the nightmarish possibility of dancing TtP in full panniers &
> knocking over one's neighbors like bowling pins...  David loves to claim
> that ECD is like football, but I'm not convinced...

Panniers as hip pads, like shoulder pads in football.  Sometimes TtP seems
more like hockey.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:04:48 -0800
From: "Klein, Anita" <Anita.Klein-AT-
alza.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Trip to Paris (was progression)
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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>Panniers as hip pads, like shoulder pads in football.  Sometimes TtP seems
>more like hockey.
>
>-- Alan

Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice?

-Anita the Lurker


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<P><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;Panniers as hip pads, like shoulder pads in football.&nbsp; Sometimes TtP seems</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;more like hockey.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>&gt;-- Alan</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-Anita the Lurker</FONT>
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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:31:23 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:27:08 -0500
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 12:36:23PM -0800, Andrew Peterson wrote:
> ---Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:
> > I know I come from a very different orientation than most
> > dancers.  If you read my article in the Nov. CDSS magazine you
> > know that I don't regard the geometry of the dances as the
> only
> > thing ECD is about.
> 
> Which is exactly why I would rather do easy dances well than do
> dances that are so complicated that even the experienced dancers
> are unsure of what they are doing. Brain twisters are not
> enjoyable to me because everyone is working so hard at thinking
> about the geometry that they can't relax and actually dance.
> They can't comfortably relate to the others in the set because
> they are too worried about not makeing a mistake.

I was hoping someone else might follow this up, but since no one
has...

My concern with Andy's comments are the lack of context.  I do enjoy
brain twisters (maybe a little too much for some of the dancers I
inflict them on).  I will agree that there is a time and place for
them, mostly based on the capability of the crowd, but I also believe
that practice and expectations go a long way in what people are
capable of.  If dancers don't get to practice complicated/long/unusual
dances, how will dancers get to stretch their capabilities?

> but for enjoyment in a relaxed evening of social dancing the
> luxury of repeating the complexities until everyone understands
> them just isn't possible.

I think there are two comments I want to make out of this.  The first
is that my idea of a relaxed evening of social dancing is that I want
to be challenged.  (I realize different people dance for different
reasons.  This is one of mine.)  In performance dancing, I want to do
it flawlessly.  Not only is that not necessary in social dancing, but
usually people have more fun when slip-ups are made.  The second
comment is that in social dancing, while it's nice to have the dance
down perfectly from the start, it is accepted that people can continue
to learn the dance as they dance it, and hopefully everyone has done
so before the dance finishes.

> I've learned complex dances at workshops never to dance them again
> because they can't be taught in a normal evening. One that comes to
> mind is a beautiful (square) quadrille that Richard Powers taught at
> the Mazurka Week in Port Townsend in 1988.

I hope you don't really mean you regret learning it, or other complex
dances.  It sounds like you have a wonderful memory of it.  Many of my
favourite dancing memories are of learning complex dances : Waverley
Ahoy at Pinewoods, and a bunch of us pestering Colin Hume to spend
some extra time working on it between sessions; Dovetail with Helene
Cornelius at my first Playford Ball (done the following day at the
advanced session - it was the highlight of my weekend); Memories with
John Turner at Between the Bays; and the now ubitiquitous Dutch
Crossing with Kathy Anderson, also at Pinewoods.  

I hope this doesn't come across as over-reacting, or picking on Andy,
but one of my concerns is that we don't, as a community, drop more
complex dances in favour of dancing increasingly simple dances, for
whatever reason - not excluding new dancers, being able to concentrate
on dancing beautifully, being able to not concentrate but get into
that 'zone', etc.  I seem to be hearing more and more comments about
the programming being too challenging at places where it shouldn't be
an issue, and want to make sure we aren't selling ourselves short on
what we're capable of.  Practice and expectations (particularly
referring to the teacher, here) are key to keeping and growing that
capability.

One of the things that I love about ECD is the variety - simple dances
where you can think about dancing beautifully, or not think at all;
more complex dances where you can think about the flow of the figures,
which is so much the heart of ECD; and the different feelings, from
languidily to spritely, waltz to rant.  I think there's a place for
them all.


Christine
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:33:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:18:31 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020107.183342.-1916241.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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Jonathan wrote

I've had very
good experiences using dances like this  in both longways and Sicilian
circle
formations with totally inexperienced dancers.  My greatest success may
have
been teaching 300 18 year old college freshmen...


And I think that what's at the heart of this is who your audience is and
what do they want....age, physical ability, expectations, etc..... 300
physically fit 18-year-olds could be easier/harder than 50, 65-year-olds
or 40, drunken 30-year olds.....it's the constant challenge of the
caller....

But I keep writing in my notebooks:  KISS

Allison
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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:12:08 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 19:11:36 -0500 (EST)
From: BramaJ-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <11c.a5694cf.296b9338-AT-
aol.com>
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A long-time lurker,  I am at last moved to speak up, and it's to say to 
Christine ..."hear, hear and brava!"   I hope we'll hear more from dancers 
who do like to exercise their brains as well as their bodies.

Betty
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:40:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:39:27 -0500
From: Diane Schmit <dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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barry.mail.mindspring.net>
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At 05:04 PM 1/7/02 , you wrote: 

>
> >Panniers as hip pads, like shoulder pads in football.  Sometimes TtP seems 
> >more like hockey. 
> > 
> >-- Alan 
>
> Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice? 



Yes!!! Many, many years ago (maybe 20) many of us in Baltimore went to our 
friendly neighborhood outdoor ice rink that once existed at Memorial Stadium, 
and got them to play OUR tapes (ECD and contra music, of course) over the
speaker 
one afternoon. (The small group of us probably outnumbered everyone else on
the
ice, so that probably helped.) I remember doing either Prince William or
Fandango. The 
turn corner, partner, corner, partner went VERY nicely on ice as the momentum 
from each turn just propelled you to the next person to turn. It was great!  
(We probably did Chorus Jig, too.) Figures with more hand contact with
partners,
neighbors, etc. worked best, especially for a group of occasional skaters. 
Would love to do this again! 

Diane

Gaithersburg, MD


>
> -Anita the Lurker 



Diane Schmit
dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com 

--Boundary_(ID_jL4UEBD8VMkB1IvVqwDK8g)
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<html>
At 05:04 PM 1/7/02 , you wrote: <br>
<br>
<font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>&gt;Panniers as hip pads, like
shoulder pads in football.&nbsp; Sometimes TtP seems</font><font size=3>
<br>
</font><font size=2>&gt;more like hockey.</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2>&gt;</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2>&gt;-- Alan</font><font size=3> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=2>Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on
ice?</font><font size=3> </blockquote><br>
<br>
Yes!!! Many, many years ago (maybe 20) many of us in Baltimore went to
our <br>
friendly neighborhood outdoor ice rink that once existed at Memorial
Stadium, <br>
and got them to play OUR tapes (ECD and contra music, of course) over the
speaker <br>
one afternoon. (The small group of us probably outnumbered everyone else
on the<br>
ice, so that probably helped.) I remember doing either Prince William or
Fandango. The <br>
turn corner, partner, corner, partner went VERY nicely on ice as the
momentum <br>
from each turn just propelled you to the next person to turn. It was
great!&nbsp; <br>
(We probably did Chorus Jig, too.) Figures with more hand contact with
partners,<br>
neighbors, etc. worked best, especially for a group of occasional
skaters. <br>
Would love to do this again! <br>
<br>
Diane<br>
<br>
Gaithersburg, MD<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>-Anita the
Lurker</font><font size=3> <br>
</blockquote><br>
</font><br>
<div>Diane Schmit</div>
dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com
</html>

--Boundary_(ID_jL4UEBD8VMkB1IvVqwDK8g)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:18:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 22:18:49 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108041850.RRYR27302.chruser-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
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Almost every year, in mid-January, weather permitting, we do contras 
and squares on ice here in Madison, Wisconsin.  "Long lines forward 
and bash."  

It's my take that ECD would be as much - or even more - susceptable.  
I can imagine doing some of the dances with lots of disconnected 
figures, such as The Punch Bowl, as well as the connected ones like 
Fandango.  On the other hand, The Grape Vine Twist is also big time 
fun on skates.

Roger Diggle


> Anita the Lurker wrote:

>> Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice? 
>
Diane Schmit wrote:  
>
>Yes!!! Many, many years ago (maybe 20) many of us in Baltimore went to our 
>friendly neighborhood outdoor ice rink that once existed at Memorial 
>Stadium, 
>and got them to play OUR tapes (ECD and contra music, of course) over the
>speaker 
>one afternoon. (The small group of us probably outnumbered everyone else on
>the
>ice, so that probably helped.) I remember doing either Prince William or
>Fandango. The 
>turn corner, partner, corner, partner went VERY nicely on ice as the 
>momentum 
>from each turn just propelled you to the next person to turn. It was great!  
>(We probably did Chorus Jig, too.) Figures with more hand contact with
>partners,
>neighbors, etc. worked best, especially for a group of occasional skaters. 
>Would love to do this again! 
>
>Diane
>
>Gaithersburg, MD
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>Diane Schmit
>dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com 
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 22:12:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:14:51 -0800
From: sam and sandy rotenberg <srotenbe-AT-
bellatlantic.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: re: Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3AB88B.676AE2AE-AT-
bellatlantic.net>
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References: <Pine.NEB.4.40.0201011841040.22437-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com> <006101c193d8$88a63ee0$2074883e-AT-
annhigle> <3C347225.33B336D4-AT-
sbcglobal.net>


Patio doors

Joanna Reiner was calling Heidenroslein recently and referred to the slow
sashay figure by saying we should pass our current partners as in "patio
doors".  I thought it was an Irish figure which I had never heard of named
after Paddy O'Dours.  Ironically, Ronnie Snader in the next set had the same
impression.  Ronnie and I now cannot dance Heidenroslein now without laughing
about the Irish figure in the English dance to German music.

Sandy Rotenberg

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:23:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:23:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108072300.38978.qmail-AT-
web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com> wrote:
> In performance dancing, I want to do it flawlessly.  Not
> only is that not necessary in social dancing, but usually
> people have more fun when slip-ups are made. 

I remember dancing in a three couple set of quite
experienced dancers; the dance, in between easy and brain-
twister. Soon after we began, somebody made a mistake and
commented on it with silly body language. Things went
downhill from there. By the end we were all laughing so
hard we could hardly dance. What fun!

Lyrl




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Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:25:31 PST
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:25:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108072524.37017.qmail-AT-
web13805.mail.yahoo.com>
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> > Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice? 

Then there's ECD in hip-deep water in Round Pond at
Pinewoods....

Lyrl




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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:00:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:00:36 +0000
From: Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-
wmnt.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Ice... and how about on wheels?

My two children both ride unicycles, and at a recent national Unicycle
meeting, we held a "barn dance" for mixed sets of unicyclists and those on
foot.  My band Herbal Remedy played; caller was Dave Hunt, and there were
something like 80 dancers, well over half of whom were unicyclists.  We held
workshops throughout the day to work out what figures were
easy/hard/possible and Dave did an amazing job of adapting dances to fit,
though in the end we found that there was little the mounted dancers could
not do. One bemused onlooker said that the wheeled sets were actually more
graceful than the ones one foot.

There's a photo at the eceilidh members details page here:
http://www.wmnt.freeserve.co.uk/eceilidh/  scroll or jump down to Dave
Hunt's entry and click on the thumbnail picture.  For the terminally curious
there is also a pic of me just above Dave (Hawkins being just before Hunt,
alphabetically speaking...)


We're doing another at the National UniMeet in April.


Ron Hawkins
    Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice?
  Yes!!! Many, many years ago (maybe 20) many of us in Baltimore went to our
  friendly neighborhood outdoor ice rink that once existed at Memorial
Stadium,
  and got them to play OUR tapes (ECD and contra music, of course) over the

--Boundary_(ID_pwxh8nBrNZdBx7iOV5iuEA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=760384607-08012002>Ice... 
and how about on wheels? </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=760384607-08012002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=760384607-08012002>My two 
children both ride unicycles, and at a recent national Unicycle meeting, we held 
a "barn dance" for mixed sets of unicyclists and those on foot.&nbsp; My band 
Herbal Remedy played; caller was Dave Hunt, and there were something like 80 
dancers, well over half of whom were unicyclists.&nbsp; We held workshops 
throughout the day to work out what figures were easy/hard/possible and Dave did 
an amazing job of adapting dances to fit, though in the end we found that there 
was little the mounted dancers could not do. One bemused onlooker said that the 
wheeled sets were actually more graceful than the ones one 
foot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=760384607-08012002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=760384607-08012002>There's&nbsp;a photo at the eceilidh members details 
page here:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=760384607-08012002><A 
href="http://www.wmnt.freeserve.co.uk/eceilidh/davecalling.jpg">http://www.wmnt.freeserve.co.uk/eceilidh/</A>&nbsp; 
scroll or jump down to Dave Hunt's entry and click on the thumbnail 
picture.&nbsp; For the terminally curious there is also a pic of me just above 
Dave (Hawkins being just before Hunt, alphabetically 
speaking...)</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=760384607-08012002>We're 
doing&nbsp;another at the National UniMeet in April.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=760384607-08012002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
class=760384607-08012002></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=760384607-08012002>Ron 
Hawkins</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE cite type="cite"><FONT size=2>Speaking of hockey, has anyone 
    tried ECD on ice?</FONT><FONT size=3> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yes!!! Many, many years ago 
  (maybe 20) many of us in Baltimore went to our <BR>friendly neighborhood 
  outdoor ice rink that once existed at Memorial Stadium, <BR>and got them to 
  play OUR tapes (ECD and contra music, of course) over the 
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:11:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:12:36 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> Ice... and how about on wheels?
> 
> My two children both ride unicycles, and at a recent
> national Unicycle meeting, we held a "barn dance" for
> mixed sets of unicyclists and those on foot.

I recently had a very surreal dream in which a group of
people in a park were playing polo on unicycles.  At the
time I thought it was unlikely, though not impossible given
some of the things I've seen at juggling conventions here in
the States.  Ever seen unicycle polo? 

-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:21:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:15:01 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020108101501.007b9890-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
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And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
involve the head, not just the feet.

And how nice it would be to have enough dancers around to be able to keep
separate the two categories; those that appreicate short & simple, and
those that like to exercise their brains.
Around here, the two are necessarily mixed toegether, with the result I
somtimes think no-one is fully satisfied.
Still waiting to find 15 like-minded people to teach them Dutch Crossing --
what a thrill it was to learn that a few years ago with the deviser, Ernst
van Brakel, and a whole group of people ready to give a little thought and
concentration to the job in hand.

By the way, since the subject line is "warm up", let me add that this is
what I keep simple dances for -- getting started, with dances that
late-comers can join in (with luck) without too much disruption. Once
everyone's limbs are moving, I don't mind asking them to use theur heads.
Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:54:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:54:31 +0000
From: Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-
wmnt.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <MABBKHHLHFFIDCFJKJBBIEJPCFAA.rhawk-AT-
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> Ice... and how about on wheels?
>
> My two children both ride unicycles, and at a recent
> national Unicycle meeting, we held a "barn dance" for
> mixed sets of unicyclists and those on foot.

Kalia asked:

I recently had a very surreal dream in which a group of
people in a park were playing polo on unicycles.  At the
time I thought it was unlikely, though not impossible given
some of the things I've seen at juggling conventions here in
the States.  Ever seen unicycle polo?


err well, how about hockey?  We hold regular hockey games - similar to
street hockey, but on wheels. Well, "wheel" (singular) I suppose. I've got
mpegs to prove it somewhere if you want to see.

Ron H

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 01:58:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:58:48 +0000
From: Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-
wmnt.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <MABBKHHLHFFIDCFJKJBBOEJPCFAA.rhawk-AT-
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 Ever seen unicycle polo?

--
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!


... I forgot to mention, we also play unicycle basketball, unicycle rugby
(!) and recently a fantastic game of unicycle Quidditch - probably the
closest thing to Harry Potter achievable, there being many similarities
between broomsticks and unicycles, in terms of controllability.


Ron H

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 04:14:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:13:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200201081213.MAA13323-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Tuesday, January 08, 2002 at 10:15:01 AM, Martin wrote:

> And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
> involve the head, not just the feet.
> 

Personally I would rather have dances that involve the body.

Dancing is about moving to music.  If the music moves the body, amazingly, the feet follow.  The "head" is more tricky.  Dances that require significant brain power for the dancers usually end up being some sort of intellectual excercise more akin to map reading or working out an IKEA self assembly leaflet.  Too often the need for the brain to work overtime determining the geography  results in too little attention to the movement.

Michael Barraclough


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:05:03 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 07:04:24 -0600
From: John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B85FC8A7.51ED%jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org>
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Not ECD, but contras on ice, in St. Louis, where once or twice, twenty years
ago, we rented the University City ice rink for the occasion, as it was
roofed and not subject to dismal weather, just the cold. My recollection,
though now dim, is that it all went just fine.

I would not try morris on ice, though.

Shooz


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:09:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:05:23 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Gargling a winter cold away
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200201080808_MC3-ED34-FC51-AT-
compuserve.com>
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Since it was off topic, I erased it. I'd love to have the information
again, though...
What was the formula for the hydrogen peroxide/water mix for gargling to
chase a winter cold away?
An off-list reply will be fine! And - thanks in advance!

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:48:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:47:01 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <006b01c1984b$4c3fbfe0$4a9401d4-AT-
trevormo>
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Alan wrote
"some of whom couldn't figure out which was right and which was left"

I thought this was a prerequisite of all ECD dancers!!

Trev



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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:48:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:48:40 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[216.170.168.6]>
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Idunno as this is so very off-topic...
Many of us are dance leaders, using our voices in our work, 
and we occasionally have to face engagements with our voices 
in less-than-optimum condition.  Anything that has to do 
with voice maintenance is right-on-topic as far as I'm 
concerned.  It might even be worth a nice long thread.  In 
any case, please post this information to the whole list.

Roger Diggle


Hanny D. Budnick wrote:  

>Since it was off topic, I erased it. I'd love to have the information
>again, though...
>What was the formula for the hydrogen peroxide/water mix for gargling to
>chase a winter cold away?
>An off-list reply will be fine! And - thanks in advance!
>
>  _-AT-
_      {)/'
> /\ /\_._,<_/
>'  \      /_\
>   />    /<  Hanny
>
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:50:54 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:48:00 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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wi.mit.edu>
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plus we could find it again next winter in the archive......
--Deb

Roger Diggle wrote:

>  please post this information to the whole list.
> 
> Roger Diggle
> 
> Hanny D. Budnick wrote:
>
> >What was the formula for the hydrogen peroxide/water mix for gargling to
> >chase a winter cold away?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:20:37 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:25:35 -0800
From: etepper-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in the water
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108.122536.-386107.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>
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Some years ago at Early Music Week at Pinewoods, an auction item was a
called dance in Long Pond.
The musicians sat on the dock and the dance was....Hole in the Water!
(For those who don't know, that is the term by which many boaters refer
to their boats.)

Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:43:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:43:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108174325.81516.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>
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> Alan wrote
> "some of whom couldn't figure out which was right and which
> was left"
> 
--- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> I thought this was a prerequisite of all ECD dancers!!

That we're not able to tell R from L? Or that we have to be able
to tell? I've known a few that couldn't. It can cause problems
with geometry.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:48:06 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:43:31 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <004401c1986b$fdc8c340$c2364b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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wi.mit.edu>

Hi folks

The formula is 50/50 -- half water (preferably not freezing cold, but
lukewarm), half drugstore hydrogen peroxide. Make enough for two guggles;
gargle them well back in the throat, then gargle with plain water, again not
too cold. If you catch it early enough, you can knock out a cold a-forming,
or even the flu -- both viruses, during the early stages of infection, live
in the back of the throat.

Peace,
Paul

(with thanks to Rebecca's brother, Steve Taylor, MD)

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:15:54 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Idunno as this is so very off-topic...
> Many of us are dance leaders, using our voices in our work, 
> and we occasionally have to face engagements with our voices 
> in less-than-optimum condition.  Anything that has to do 
> with voice maintenance is right-on-topic as far as I'm 
> concerned.  It might even be worth a nice long thread.  In 
> any case, please post this information to the whole list.

I don't know about the gargle formula that Hanny was asking
about, but My mom swears by salt water gargle. 

My neighbor, who just left yesterday for NYC, is an opera
singer. He has a daughter in elementary school and they are
always having colds in their house, which of course doesn't help
his singing voice. (I remember Lyrl saying that she'd never had
so many colds until Andrew started going to school.) Being
fragrance-free in my house because of my skin sensitivities, I
strongly believe that the various chemical fragrances that are
prevelent in their house are not helping him either. I'd sure
like to convince them to not use those awful static sheets in
their dryer. I choke on them whenever the wind is coming from
the wrong way, especially in the summer when my windows are
open. Victoria knows all about this problem. 

I'll see what Marc has to say about voice
conditioning/maintenance when he returns next week.

andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:21:05 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:20:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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web20003.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> The formula is 50/50 -- half water (preferably not freezing
> cold, but lukewarm), half drugstore hydrogen peroxide. Make
> enough for two guggles; gargle them well back in the throat,
> then gargle with plain water, again not too cold. If you catch
> it early enough, you can knock out a cold a-forming, or even
> the flu -- both viruses, during the early stages of infection,
> live in the back of the throat.

I remember years ago someone who was a nurse told me that
sipping lemon water was very effective. The germs/virus don't
fare well in the acidic environment that the lemon water creates
in your throat.

Andy
...who always puts a bit of lemon juice in tap water to kill the
chemical taste.

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:28:46 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:28:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108182838.91009.qmail-AT-
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--- John Shewmaker <jshewmaker-AT-
taproots.org> wrote:
> Not ECD, but contras on ice, in St. Louis, where once or
> twice, twenty years ago, we rented the University City ice
rink
> for the occasion, as it was roofed and not subject to dismal
> weather, just the cold. My recollection, though now dim, is
> that it all went just fine.

I used to go to Cammy Kaynor's Monday night Contra dances in
Amherst MA occasionally when I lived in Connecticut. One night
after the break, Lyn Hardy and a couple of the men came in
wearing inline skates and proceded to dance in them for a while.
I seem to remember that Cammy came up with a pair, too, and was
skating around teaching a dance and playing his fiddle out on
the floor.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:55:36 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:57:29 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: ECD in the water
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <20020108.122536.-386107.0.etepper-AT-
juno.com>

The actual proper name for the genus /boat/ is, of course: 
Hole in the Water Into Which One Pours Money and Time

-Ruth

etepper-AT-
juno.com wrote:
> 
> Some years ago at Early Music Week at Pinewoods, an auction item was a
> called dance in Long Pond.
> The musicians sat on the dock and the dance was....Hole in the Water!
> (For those who don't know, that is the term by which many boaters refer
> to their boats.)
> 
> Ellen
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:01:14 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:55:02 -0500
From: "Green, David" <Green-AT-
gts.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7348C1502B13F344843330794758CFD11D9057-AT-
mail.GTS.EDU>
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  I suppose the  ideal dance illustrating the relationship between
hockey and ECD is Puck's Deceit.
-- David
 
                            


                   

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<DIV><FONT face="Souvenir Lt BT" size=2>&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT><FONT 
face="Souvenir Lt BT" size=4>I suppose the&nbsp; ideal dance 
illustrating&nbsp;the relationship between hockey and ECD is Puck's 
Deceit.<BR>-- David</FONT></DIV>
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:20:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:20:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in the water
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200201081920.g08JKgC27323-AT-
staff2.cso.uiuc.edu>
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etepper-AT-
juno.com writes:
> 
> Some years ago at Early Music Week at Pinewoods, an auction item was a
> called dance in Long Pond.
> The musicians sat on the dock and the dance was....Hole in the Water!
> (For those who don't know, that is the term by which many boaters refer
> to their boats.)

   Each summer the Central Illinois English Country Dancers have a pool
party with dancing in the pool.  You can see some pictures at
"http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/pool/pool.html" from one of
these events a few years ago.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:32:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:31:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Dfhart24-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <66.1a13c6b8.296ca327-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 1/8/2002 4:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr writes:


> And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
> involve the head, not just the feet.
> 

And I'll raise you one.  How about Head, *Heart* & Feet?  Not to be confused 
with Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes.

I think Mister Isaac's Maggot may be amongst my HHF favorites, and, given the 
opportunity, I don't know whether I prefer to dance it or play the music for 
it.  Pulls at the heartstrings, especially since I saw the Jane Austen video 
which featured it as the recurring theme.  Can't remember which one, but it 
was a BBC production, I believe.

Deborah

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/8/2002 4:22:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
<BR>involve the head, not just the feet.
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>And I'll raise you one. &nbsp;How about Head, *Heart* &amp; Feet? &nbsp;Not to be confused with Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes.
<BR>
<BR>I think Mister Isaac's Maggot may be amongst my HHF favorites, and, given the opportunity, I don't know whether I prefer to dance it or play the music for it. &nbsp;Pulls at the heartstrings, especially since I saw the Jane Austen video which featured it as the recurring theme. &nbsp;Can't remember which one, but it was a BBC production, I believe.
<BR>
<BR>Deborah</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_WQaL5vu2vmMOCr7m+pYlcQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:33:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:31:28 -0500
From: Torbin Zimmerman <torbin-AT-
sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3C3B4911.4C4EE2B4-AT-
sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <200201081213.MAA13323-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>

It's been my experience that good (I'll define that in a moment) complex dances *do* involve the body. That sequence the head has so much trouble with  becomes crystal clear once the body discovers the flow. An illuminating experience.

Good complex dances have that flow and integrity; the dancer's challenge is not intellectual analysis, but physical harmony with the dance and the music. Not good dances (and they're not all complex) are the intellectual exercises Michael is referring to, where the author's concepts get in the way of the dancers' experience and expression. Sometimes this is unintentional, but there are all too many dances where I suspect the author
deliberately set out to confuse the dancers, make some point, or have a joke.

So let's not condemn all complex dances. Let's celebrate good dances of whatever character, even if some of them take a few minutes more to learn at first.

Torbin Zimmerman

Michael Barraclough wrote:

> On Tuesday, January 08, 2002 at 10:15:01 AM, Martin wrote:
>
> > And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
> > involve the head, not just the feet.
> >
>
> Personally I would rather have dances that involve the body.
>
> Dancing is about moving to music.  If the music moves the body, amazingly, the feet follow.  The "head" is more tricky.  Dances that require significant brain power for the dancers usually end up being some sort of intellectual excercise more akin to map reading or working out an IKEA self assembly leaflet.  Too often the need for the brain to work overtime determining the geography  results in too little attention to the movement.
>
> Michael Barraclough
>
> --




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:35:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:35:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108193529.57442.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> And how nice it would be to have enough dancers around to be
> able to keep separate the two categories; those that
appreicate
> short & simple, and those that like to exercise their brains.
> Around here, the two are necessarily mixed toegether, with the
> result I somtimes think no-one is fully satisfied.

I find a whole evening of complicated, mind-bending dances is
not satisfying for two reasons. One is that they take too long
to teach and doing a whole evening of them cuts deeply into
dancing time. I'm there to _dance_. The other reason is that
when I go dancing I want to relax and enjoy myself. A whole
evening of mindbenders is not relaxing and I go home less
relaxed than when I left. A couple difficult dances in an
evening are okay, but the dancing ability of the entire group is
usually not such that a whole evening of them can be done
without a lot of frustration. Less experienced dancers are
frustrated because they don't "get" the dances, and experienced
dancers are frustrated because they are playing traffic cop most
of the time.

I get a lot more pleasure out of doing easy dances well than
barely getting through a mindbender and playing traffic cop, but
then I dance because I enjoy body movement to music. I'm not
there for brain exercise, I get enough of that in other parts of
my life.

> By the way, since the subject line is "warm up", let me add
> that this is what I keep simple dances for -- getting started,
> with dances that late-comers can join in (with luck) without
> too much disruption. Once everyone's limbs are moving, I don't
> mind asking them to use theur heads.

Last night I walked into the Scandinavian dance in the middle of
the teaching session and was immediately asked to dance before I
even had my shoes changed. The featured dance was a very fast
Mazurka/Polska combination. Even the slow music was faster than
some people could do the Polska turns and when the faster music
was put on, it was impossible for almost everyone. That's not a
good dance to do cold, without stretching and warming muscles.
The original question was searching for stretching exercises to
do _before_ doing any dancing. Although I don't always stretch
before dancing, I know that I should. I often don't find dancing
a good way to warm up, because it can involve twisting and
turning that strains joints that are not fully warmed.

Don't discount the importance of stretching and warming up the
muscles and joints. In 1988 I went to Port Townsend WA for two
dance weeks. One was the Folk Dance and Music Festival put on by
Centrum at which Jim Morrison was one of the teachers. The other
was a week of Mazurka: the original Polish Mazurka, Mazurka as
it moved into the Eastern European ballrooms, and Mazurka as it
moved into the American ballrooms. Mazurka Week was very
strenuous, with four 1-1/2 hour class sessions a day and a ball
every night. We had a half-hour warmup session every morning and
almost everyone was there for the warm-ups because we knew that
we needed it in order to get through the day. A friend had told
me that I should ice my knees after dancing (usually not easy to
do), so I also went down to the beach twice a day and submerged
my legs in the 52 degree water for as long as I could stand to
be in it. (Air temperatures were in the 80's and low 90's.) My
knees felt better at the end of those two weeks than they had in
some time.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:44:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:39:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Deborah quoted Martin Sheffield:

> And I'll raise you one.  How about Head, *Heart* & Feet?  Not to be confused
> with Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes.

> I think Mister Isaac's Maggot may be amongst my HHF favorites, and, given the
> opportunity, I don't know whether I prefer to dance it or play the music for
> it.  Pulls at the heartstrings, especially since I saw the Jane Austen video
> which featured it as the recurring theme.  Can't remember which one, but it
> was a BBC production, I believe.

Hmmm.  Haven't run across that one; Mr. Beveridge's Maggot showed up in the 
Gwyneth Paltrow _Emma_, if I recall aright.

Anyway, I agree with other remarks in this thread - including Torbin
Zimmerman's excellent observation about the body making sense of what the head
has so much trouble with - and I love Mister Isaac's Maggot; I'll nominate Joy
After Sorrow and Love's Triumph as HHF favorites.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:48:19 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:48:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Ron Hawkins <rhawk-AT-
wmnt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> One bemused onlooker said that the wheeled sets were
> actually more graceful than the ones one foot.
> 
> There's a photo at the eceilidh members details page here:
> http://www.wmnt.freeserve.co.uk/eceilidh/

Notice the _lean_ of the two dancers in front of the caller. It
reminds me of the old pictures from the 20's that I've seen
printed in Country Dance and Song.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:54:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:54:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in the water
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>    Each summer the Central Illinois English Country Dancers
> have a pool party with dancing in the pool.  You can see some
> pictures at
<"http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/pool/pool.html">
> from one of these events a few years ago.

It reminds me of Contra dancing one _very_ hot and humid night
in Greenwich, Connecticut. Renie Reiss had a hot tub,and after
the dance a bunch of us went over to her house, drained about
half of the hot water out and filled the tub with cold water,
and sat there getting cooled off for about two hours. that was
the weekend before I left for the two weeks of dancing in Port
Townsend. Renie was at the Mazurka week.

Andy

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:57:56 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:57:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Speaking of hockey, has anyone tried ECD on ice? 
> 
> Then there's ECD in hip-deep water in Round Pond at
> Pinewoods....

Not to mention Morris dancing on the float in Long Pond. 
Up-a-double and SPLASH.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:59:03 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:58:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Torbin Zimmerman <torbin-AT-
sympatico.ca> wrote:

> Good complex dances have that flow and integrity; the dancer's
> challenge is not intellectual analysis, but physical harmony with
> the dance and the music. 

Very nicely put.  Yes, that describes the joy I find in good, complex
dances.  I would only add (what is implicit in that description),
harmony with the other dancers as well.

Barbara

=====
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:05:35 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:05:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> I remember dancing in a three couple set of quite
> experienced dancers; the dance, in between easy and brain-
> twister. Soon after we began, somebody made a mistake and
> commented on it with silly body language. Things went
> downhill from there. By the end we were all laughing so
> hard we could hardly dance. What fun!

Anybody remember the Parson's Farewell done while blindfolded
that was done at Pinewoods one year? (1970? '71?) I can't
remember who all was in on it. They actually did get through it,
but ended up with their corner instead of their partner. Those
of us watching were laughing very hard. I have a picture of it
and George Roth is in the background about to role off the
railing he was sitting on.

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:15:21 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:15:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108201513.10499.qmail-AT-
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Almost every year, in mid-January, weather permitting, we do
> contras and squares on ice here in Madison, Wisconsin.  "Long
> lines forward and bash."  
> 
> It's my take that ECD would be as much - or even more -
> susceptable.  I can imagine doing some of the dances with lots
> of disconnected figures, such as The Punch Bowl, as well as
the
> connected ones like Fandango.  On the other hand, The Grape
> Vine Twist is also big time fun on skates.

I've seen some very wild skipping around in Trip to Paris. Can
imagine it on ice? Or how about the ending of Parson's Farewell?

Andy

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:05:26 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:46:22 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020108224622.007bed50-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
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 Michael wrote:
>
> Too often the need for the brain to work overtime determining the
geography  results in too little attention to the movement.

That depends on the dancer -- we're all different!

for me, music, movement, thought, calculation, pleasure and togetherness
are not mutually exclusive aspects of dancing. Paying attention to the
figures does not stop me paying attention to fellow dancers or to the music.

Brain and body, it's all one.
Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:37:10 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:22:48 -0500
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD on ice
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020108.173206.-120105.13.catdancer-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
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>I remember doing either Prince William or Fandango. The 
>turn corner, partner, corner, partner went VERY nicely on ice as the
momentum 
>from each turn just propelled you to the next person to turn. It was
great!  

Wow, how wonderful! I can almost feel it!  What a great reason to learn
to ice skate!  There's a nice rink not far from my house... hmm........

Helen Tuzio
New York

"The cat was created when the lion sneezed." Arab Myth

--Boundary_(ID_6jBzZHccVwT6VNoM3DOBqw)
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bottomMargin=0 leftMargin=3 topMargin=0 rightMargin=3>
<DIV>&gt;I remember doing either Prince William or Fandango. The <BR>&gt;turn 
corner, partner, corner, partner went VERY nicely on ice as the momentum 
<BR>&gt;from each turn just propelled you to the next person to turn. It was 
great!&nbsp; <BR></DIV>
<DIV>Wow, how wonderful! I can almost feel it!&nbsp; What a great reason to 
learn to ice skate!&nbsp; There's a nice rink not far from my house... 
hmm........</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Helen Tuzio</DIV>
<DIV>New York<BR></DIV>
<DIV>"The cat was created when the lion sneezed." Arab 
Myth<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:36:02 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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This is another vote for the BODY man!!
I've seen these head dancers cross-legged on the floor looking at the flip
chart, puzzling it out, and that was at a festival
Alan Corkett
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 08 January 2002 12:14
Subject: Re: Warm up


On Tuesday, January 08, 2002 at 10:15:01 AM, Martin wrote:

> And I'll join Betty and Christine in a vote for interesting dances that
> involve the head, not just the feet.
>

Personally I would rather have dances that involve the body.

Dancing is about moving to music.  If the music moves the body, amazingly,
the feet follow.  The "head" is more tricky.  Dances that require
significant brain power for the dancers usually end up being some sort of
intellectual excercise more akin to map reading or working out an IKEA self
assembly leaflet.  Too often the need for the brain to work overtime
determining the geography  results in too little attention to the movement.

Michael Barraclough


--



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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:57:47 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Alan Winston - SSRL Central
Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:
... I'll nominate Joy After Sorrow and Love's Triumph as HHF favorites.

Miss de Jersey's Memorial is my HHF nominee:  the tune for the heart, the
sweep down the center for the body (feet), and that damned circle right
to keep the cerebral cortext functioning.

Gene

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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:59:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:55:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCU9TE8W2K94X8F7-AT-
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> On Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Alan Winston - SSRL Central
> Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:
> ... I'll nominate Joy After Sorrow and Love's Triumph as HHF favorites.

> Miss de Jersey's Memorial is my HHF nominee:  the tune for the heart, the
> sweep down the center for the body (feet), and that damned circle right
> to keep the cerebral cortext functioning.

Pat Shaw was a master of this HHF stuff, even though his collected
works cover the whole spectrum; he was certainly a master of that slightly
unexpected thing that wakes you up; right now I'm thinking of the sharp near
the end of "Bare Necessities."

Hmmm; I think "Fair and Softly" has to go into this category too - luscious
tune, luscious four changes, and then a little thought about who the twos
lead through.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:43:27 PST
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:43:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10201082338350.7184-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
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On Tue, 8 Jan 2002, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> Pat Shaw was a master of this HHF stuff, even though his collected
> works cover the whole spectrum; he was certainly a master of that slightly
> unexpected thing that wakes you up; right now I'm thinking of the sharp near
> the end of "Bare Necessities."

which one, the C# or the F#?

the B-natural early in the A part gets my attention, too (after D minor
has already apparently been established, we realize the tune is more
Dorian, at least until it isn't).

susie lorand
who won't mind at all if "bare necessities" keeps running through her head
for a while, and who when playing the tune always wishes the dance were a
longways...

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:35:00 PST
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:34:10 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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flash.net>
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Sharon Green wrote:

> Quick correction: RenFair refers to the Northern & Southern California
> Renaissance Faires, produced by the Living History Centre.  Although many
> SCA members participate in the Faires, and many Faire workers attend
> occasional SCA events, neither group is an offshoot of the other.  Also,
> while some troupes dancing at the Faires originated in Society for Creative
> Anachronism dance groups, many did not: a major, non-SCA troupe I recall
> was led by the early dance scholar Angene Feves.

Yes, the SCA is a separate entity.  However, the term "renfair" is often
used to mean any renaissance festival, not just those in California.

--Charlene

-- 
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meanings?  -- George Carlin
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:50:21 PST
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:49:26 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <20020106.163054.-1933553.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
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Allison M Thompson wrote:

> Could someone please post more detail about what these are & how they
> differ from standard ECD versions & even why?  It seems like an
> interesting side-shoot, so to speak.

I can speak to some of the differences of which I'm aware.  This is "in
general."  For every statement I'm sure someone can find an exception. 
(MECD = modern English country dance)

Each geographic area of the SCA has it's own flavor or culture. 
Depending on the personalities involved and the resources available,
some groups do little or no "period" (pre-17th C) dances, some do no
non-period dances (including Playford, since it's technically 50 years
beyond our scope).  Most fall somewhere in the middle.  Personally, I'll
teach anything period and go through the first edition of Playford.

I don't have a tremendous amount of experience with MECD, but here are a
few of my observations.

Siding - I just about never see Sharp-siding in the SCA.  I've seen a
mix in MECD settings.

Which foot? - SCA usually starts on the left foot, MECD on the right. 
That's because most Renaissance dance starts on the left.  I believe
Baroque dance starts on the right, but I'm not positive.

Reconstructions - MECD is mostly concerned with enjoyment rather than
history.  If you take a modern ECD reconstruction and compare it to the
original Playford there may be differences.  Some SCA groups will use
the MECD or Sharp reconstructions.  Many prefer to go to the original
and dance that version.  I'm not saying one way is better than the
other; they each serve different purposes.

Timeframe - MECD, of course, covers anything from 1650 to today.  SCA
groups that do ECD generally do first Playford and maybe a few dances
from latter editions (Sellenger's Round is popular in some places).

Formations - what dancing I've done in a MECD seems to be mostly
longways progression dances (that could be a false impression based on
little experience).  SCA tends to do mostly "set" dances - 3 couples
longways, 4 couples in a square, 2 couples facing, etc.

One of my main problems at the Playford Conference in London turned out
to be expectations I didn't realize I had.  One of the balls had the
list of dances arranged chronologically.  I found that the farther from
first Playford we moved, the harder it got for me.  It's difficult to
describe, but I suppose I'm used to particular figures following each
other, or even occurrring together; moving to the left first; when the
men start first and when it should be the women; etc.  These are things
that I just don't have to think about any more.
As the time of the dances progressed those elements weren't as
predictable and I had to concentrate more instead of going into
"automatic" mode.

--Charlene

-- 
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meanings?  -- George Carlin
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Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:07:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 22:52:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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References: <20020106.163054.-1933553.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Charlene wrote:

(About SCA dances)

> Siding - I just about never see Sharp-siding in the SCA.  I've seen a
> mix in MECD settings.

RenFaire often does Sharp siding (where RenFaire means the Renaissance 
Pleasure Faire and people who derived their training there); I'm told their
original ECD instructor had learned from Sharp in his own youth.  

> Reconstructions - MECD is mostly concerned with enjoyment rather than
> history.  If you take a modern ECD reconstruction and compare it to the
> original Playford there may be differences.  Some SCA groups will use
> the MECD or Sharp reconstructions.  Many prefer to go to the original
> and dance that version.  I'm not saying one way is better than the
> other; they each serve different purposes.

While I have no hesitation in calling most MECD reconstruction bogus (which
doesn't mean I don't like it), is it any easier to be much less bogus when 
going, from, say, 1st-ed Playford, where the footwork isn't specified?  
Are you just saying that those who 'go to the original' are following what 
description there is more closely?

> Formations - what dancing I've done in a MECD seems to be mostly
> longways progression dances (that could be a false impression based on
> little experience).  SCA tends to do mostly "set" dances - 3 couples
> longways, 4 couples in a square, 2 couples facing, etc.

The ratio of longways-for-as-many-as-will dances to set dances at an MECD
evening is likely to have a lot to do with the number of people present,
their presumed patience, etc.  At a dance I co-called last Wednesday, we 
had six dancers + two callers, so we did a lot of three-couple dances plus
one square; no LFAMAW at all.

RenFaire dance is meant to be performed, so people have signed up for practices
and rehearsals.  Even if they don't really enjoy the practices, the carrot of
dancing the stuff in performance may be enough to keep them coming.  So they
can work on a relatively limited repertoire of dances over and over and over.
Most MECD is participatory, and you're supposed to be able to enjoy every
evening - relatively instant gratification more than the delayed gratification
of RenFaire.  This drives MECD toward dances that are quicker to teach, leave
fewer people sitting out, etc, which promotes the choice of  longways duples.  
There are plenty of set dances in the general repertoire.

(Some RenFaire dancers end up learning dances as whole chunks, without breaking
down the sequence into individual figures.  MECD tends to teach individual
figures, even if the kinetic experience of the dance blurs the figures
together.  'Glossary' dances are quick teaches for MECD because everyone knows
the figures, but have no such advantage - if it even is an advantage - for 
RenFaire dancers.) 

> One of my main problems at the Playford Conference in London turned out
> to be expectations I didn't realize I had.  One of the balls had the
> list of dances arranged chronologically.  I found that the farther from
> first Playford we moved, the harder it got for me.  It's difficult to
> describe, but I suppose I'm used to particular figures following each
> other, or even occurrring together; moving to the left first; when the
> men start first and when it should be the women; etc.  These are things
> that I just don't have to think about any more.
> As the time of the dances progressed those elements weren't as
> predictable and I had to concentrate more instead of going into
> "automatic" mode.

That's very interesting; thanks for sharing it.

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:26:20 PST
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 01:26:08 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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And yet another set of opinions, from someone who's done RenFaire, SCA, and MECD.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Winston -
> SSRL Central Computing
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 9:52 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
> 
> Charlene wrote:
> 
> (About SCA dances)
> 
> > Siding - I just about never see Sharp-siding in the SCA.  I've seen a
> > mix in MECD settings.

I think this may be a regional attribute.  In SCA events in Texas, Colorado, and California, I have only seen Sharp siding done.  However, both these areas have strong renaissance festival presences and it has appeared to me that often the SCA dancing usually reflects the norm used in the renaissance festival in that area.  However, I don't have enough data points to make a general.  It may also be something that has changed over time, since my Texas and Colorado observances are 10-15 years old.

> RenFaire often does Sharp siding (where RenFaire means the Renaissance 
> Pleasure Faire and people who derived their training there); I'm told their
> original ECD instructor had learned from Sharp in his own youth.  

RenFaire (and in this case, specifically the Northern and Southern California Renaissance Pleasure Faires, from which many of the festival are patterned) normally has done Sharp siding.  It is considered older or more original (a misnomer, "older" in the sense that Sharp siding was what was taught originally at those faires (now going back 30 or so years), so that it is considered canonical.  This is true of a lot of RenFaire items related to dance, costume, social etiquette, &c.  Certain things are "so" because they are "traditional", but "traditional" in this sense means "as we've done it at RenFaire" which may or may not have anything to do with being historically or theatrically correct.  As such, the RenFaire "universe" has it's own set of "laws".  

As to the original instructor of ECD, *her* name was Patti Blanco and she was responsible for the founding of the Southern RenFaire group The Merrie Pryanksters (which in fact still exists in its Northern California incarnation today), some of whose members went on to form Newcastle, the Brunos (the RenFaire men's Morris team), Pentangle, and other spinoffs.  In any case, she *did* teach Sharp siding as "the way" to side.  Whether she was even aware of Shaw siding or other aspects of MECD, I can't say.

> > Reconstructions - MECD is mostly concerned with enjoyment rather than
> > history.  If you take a modern ECD reconstruction and compare it to the
> > original Playford there may be differences.  Some SCA groups will use
> > the MECD or Sharp reconstructions.  Many prefer to go to the original
> > and dance that version.  I'm not saying one way is better than the
> > other; they each serve different purposes.
> 
> While I have no hesitation in calling most MECD reconstruction bogus (which
> doesn't mean I don't like it), is it any easier to be much less bogus when 
> going, from, say, 1st-ed Playford, where the footwork isn't specified?  
> Are you just saying that those who 'go to the original' are following what 
> description there is more closely?

FWIW, my involvement with SCA groups and dance was that a strict adherence to historical interpretation is not always a requirement, and in many cases is not even desired.  I'm sure some groups (SCA, RenFaire, or MECD) all have their proponents of as strict a historical treatment as possible, but in others the focus has either been on enjoyment (as in "let's all get up and dance") or theatrical presentation (as in "how can we make this look interesting to an audience?").  For that matter, I know there are MECD communities out there that try to set up display or performance groups, and often adjust ECD material for stage, which is an appropriate thing to do, given the setting.

I guess I'm saying I don't feel that there really isn't correlation between historical treatment and whether you're SCA, RenFest, or MECD that you imply.

> > Formations - what dancing I've done in a MECD seems to be mostly
> > longways progression dances (that could be a false impression based on
> > little experience).  SCA tends to do mostly "set" dances - 3 couples
> > longways, 4 couples in a square, 2 couples facing, etc.
> 
> The ratio of longways-for-as-many-as-will dances to set dances at an MECD
> evening is likely to have a lot to do with the number of people present,
> their presumed patience, etc.  At a dance I co-called last Wednesday, we 
> had six dancers + two callers, so we did a lot of three-couple dances plus
> one square; no LFAMAW at all.

From my perspective, I agree that MECD will have a higher portion of longways dances compared to what's done in an SCA or RenFaire setting.  However, that seems to be more a matter of scope of which period of dances you use.  Move forward in time and there's a lot more longways in use.  SCA and RenFaire focus tends to be towards early (first edition) Playford.  That smaller "universe" does have a different flavor than the entire spectrum of ECD.

> RenFaire dance is meant to be performed, so people have signed up for practices
> and rehearsals.  Even if they don't really enjoy the practices, the carrot of
> dancing the stuff in performance may be enough to keep them coming.  So they
> can work on a relatively limited repertoire of dances over and over and over.

I couldn't disagree with this more.  It's totally opposite of my experiences in RenFaire dancing from the last 20 years.

There are usually two forms of RenFaire dancing - stage sets and street sets.  In stage sets, the dances have been often choreographed or blocked for presentation, usually to be done by performance team, but also in the context of doing other theatre as well.  While it's true that you need to come to practice to be on stage, RenFaire groups usually have so many people that no one need perform anything on stage they don't enjoy or want to dance anyway.

In addition, there are RenFaire performance groups that take both ends of the spectrum.  On one hand, some prefer putting as sharp a show together as possible, so only the best looking dancers of a given dance get to perform it.  On the other hand, some emphasize the social aspect of the group as a "family" and do whatever's necessary to make sure each and every person gets to perform in something, regardless.  Both regimens have pros and cons, both for the group as community and for the kind of show presented.

The second kind of RenFaire dancing is the street set.  This is in many ways more like a MECD, but in a "village" setting.  For a street set any and everyone gets to and is encouraged to dance, including other Faire Folk (RenFaire performers, but not necessarily members of the dance group), and audience members, if they can.  Faire Folk may take some ECD classes as 
part of their pre-Faire workshops/training.  I've heard of street sets with teaching but if so this a more recent occurrence.  However, calling is a regular part of street sets.  My experience with this is various people requesting dances by name, getting people into a set (or line or circle) and then doing it.  Again, it's all voluntary - no one does anything they don't want to.  In fact, often members of the group will do a dance in a street set as a way to demonstrate they know/like it well enough to do on stage.

All that aside, there IS a major difference in RenFaire dancing vs. MECD.  In RenFaire dancing, you usually LEARN THE DANCE.  In MECD, you LEARN HOW TO DANCE TO A CALLER.  RenFaire dancing does tend to be limited, though.  By pretty much sticking to first edition Playford, they are "limited" to around 110 dances.  On the other hand, many of these dances are highly complex and robust, with long sequences and figures, or little repetition.  Oddly enough, I rarely see some of these at any MECD and when I do, it's usually presented as a for-those-who-know or a brain-buster dance.  That is not to say that the more MECD is overly simple and highly repetitive, but those attributes do fit the longways style of dance more easily.  Is one better than another - IMHO, no - it's pretty much a matter of taste.  Neither is it all or nothing - there *are* many dances frequently done in RenFaire, SCA, and MECD settings.

Some might say that the RenFaire on stage is closer to real dancing, or more like international folk dance (IFD), because you learn to "recite" the dance.  Others might say that MECD is more empowering because it teaches you to respond to calls, which can then be used in an ever expanding repertoire of new and different dances (sort've like the give-a-man-a-fish vs teach-a-man-to-fish argument).  However, both really do teach a basic set of dance vocabulary, from which the dances are built upon, so maybe there's more in common than not.

> Most MECD is participatory, and you're supposed to be able to enjoy every
> evening - relatively instant gratification more than the delayed gratification
> of RenFaire.  This drives MECD toward dances that are quicker to teach, leave
> fewer people sitting out, etc, which promotes the choice of longways duples.  
> There are plenty of set dances in the general repertoire.

Again, I'd say that stage sets notwithstanding, RenFaire, SCA, and MECD are all participatory.  However, it brings up a another aspect of RenFaire dance - the "practices".  Usually, these get togethers are social occasions - a chance to get together and dance, schmooze, party, &c.  They occur throughout the year, and are not solely preparations for performance.  Yes, that happens too (especially as a Faire approaches), but to ignore the social/community aspect of these groups, is to not really understand what's going on.  A similar occurrence goes in some SCA groups, where the dancers get together, not only at SCA "events", but separately, as a way to join together and learn the dances in a community environment.  Another difference between this and MECD is that such groups sometimes include more than ECD; often various forms of recreational morris dancing is include during these parties/gatherings.

> (Some RenFaire dancers end up learning dances as whole chunks, without breaking
> down the sequence into individual figures.  MECD tends to teach individual

True, but the same is true for SCA and MECD.  How we teach/call may or may not impact how someone learns.  I still say both take advantage of building on dance vocabulary.

> figures, even if the kinetic experience of the dance blurs the figures
> together.  'Glossary' dances are quick teaches for MECD because everyone knows
> the figures, but have no such advantage - if it even is an advantage - for 
> RenFaire dancers.) 
> 
> > One of my main problems at the Playford Conference in London turned out
> > to be expectations I didn't realize I had.  One of the balls had the
> > list of dances arranged chronologically.  I found that the farther from
> > first Playford we moved, the harder it got for me.  It's difficult to
> > describe, but I suppose I'm used to particular figures following each
> > other, or even occurrring together; moving to the left first; when the
> > men start first and when it should be the women; etc.  These are things
> > that I just don't have to think about any more.
> > As the time of the dances progressed those elements weren't as
> > predictable and I had to concentrate more instead of going into
> > "automatic" mode.

Boy does that resonate with me.  Since my first experiences with ECD were in the context of RenFair dancing, my first MECD experience felt slow and stilted, with the dances dull and uninteresting by comparison.  Fortunately, I "acquired the taste" and began to appreciate aspects of MECD as well, along with some of the more unique contributions of the music and movements from various periods of time.  But yes, it's very different than the "happy perky peasant" feel of some of the earlier dances.

Charlene, I don't know if this will be the same for you, but someone once asked me the difference between IFD and ECD.  This was before my exposure to MECD.  At the time I said that I enjoyed both but in different ways.  With IFD (and now I'd include MECD) it's an *adult* enjoyment.  I appreciate and have fun at what I'm doing.  However with the (RenFaire) ECD, it was more like the feeling of *children* at play - a kind of innocent joyful abandon or gleefulness.  Of course how, I manage to commingle both kinds of experience into all dancing I do, where possible, but that early ECD still has fond memories for me.

[snip]

Boy, looks like I did wax a little long here.  Thanx for indulging me.  :-)

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
http://connect.to/ric

P.S.  For those interested in RenFaire style ECD in the San Francisco Bay Area, feel free to contact me, or check out the Merrie Pryanksters websites at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pryanksters/ and www.pryanksters.org.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:40:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:44:49 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109.074052.-1908465.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
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Could more detail be provided on the dances performed at these events? 
As I recall, somebody's initial posting suggested that the RenFaire
version of Childgrove was danced with 3 Bs, or something like that.  How
are other dances modified, either by figure or style or tempo?  And why? 
And by whom? Who plays for them, since a 3B Childgrove is probably not
recorded.

Allison
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:40:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:42:34 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109.074052.-1908465.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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Thanks for the recent responses to my posting on the topic of "Wedding
Dances".  I guess what I'm trying to pound into my own head is that the
dances that one teaches to a one-night stand of completely non-dancers
are v.v. different from a "beginner dance" in which one has some
leavening of experienced people and even the beginner participants have
some innate desire to dance & expectation that they may do it again.  I
know this precept in my head, and in my notes--but every now and then my
presence of mind is absent!.  It is always salubrious to the teacher when
one says "back to back" and 2 people go and stand, literally, back to
back.

Sigh

Allison
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:40:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:54:32 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Lady Godiva's Galop
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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This is my current version (I change it frequently) of a community type
dance that Englishman Geoff Hughes taught at Pinewoods in the late 70s. 
His version was a 4C set, but a 48-bar tune.  The distinctive (first)
figure is the same as his.


4C longways set

A1	1-8	1C and 4C, butterfly position, galop at each other, and, at the
last possible minute, the Bottom couple (the Bread) separate and the
First couple (the FIlling) slip in between.  Return, the same way.  For
an experienced group, I'd have the 1C at the bottom become bread, but for
this inexperienced group I kept the First couple always Filling,
regardless of where they were.  A "whee" noise at the critical moment
provides some entertainment, at least for the caller.

A2	1-8	Top 4 and bottom 4, respectively, R star and L star

B1	1-8	All face the music,  March about 4 steps forward and then 1M and
1W each cast off, followed by others.  At bottom of set, 1C make a 2H
arch and

B2	1-8	Everyone comes up (takes longer than you'd think)


Allison
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 04:59:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 07:58:31 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
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Quoth Charlene:
>Which foot? - SCA usually starts on the left foot, MECD on the right. 
>That's because most Renaissance dance starts on the left.  I believe
>Baroque dance starts on the right, but I'm not positive.

My experience with Baroque dance is that it starts with symmetrical
feet.  In the Feuillet-notated couple dances the choreographer will 
specify the foot; I don't think they do in country dances (which only 
diagram the figures and hand-taking), although the earlier manuals
do suggest steps.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:15:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:14:52 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
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Alan writes:
>While I have no hesitation in calling most MECD reconstruction bogus (which
>doesn't mean I don't like it), is it any easier to be much less bogus when 
>going, from, say, 1st-ed Playford, where the footwork isn't specified?  
>Are you just saying that those who 'go to the original' are following what 
>description there is more closely?

Pretty much, although I've seen some really horrific SCA "reconstructions"
as well.  Sharp did take some liberties with figures.

The footwork question is an interesting one.  The double/single/set-turn
descriptions given are extremely reminiscent of the Italian steps known
throughout Europe, and I believe some patterns and figures of the dances
likewise echo Italian balletti of the 16th century.  We know that the
Italian manuals made it to England prior to Playford's first edition.
"English" country dance may not be all that uniquely English at all.

I'm not sure I've ever seen SCA people dance ECD with Italian steps, 
although the concept has floated around the SCA "dance geek" community.  
But Charles Garth, the noted dance historian/reconstructor, often mixes 
in some Italian footwork when he teaches the odd country dance here and 
there in his monthly Renaissance dance evenings.  Last month he even threw 
in a *galliard* country dance, which is a bit of a stretch to me
reconstructionwise, but worked surprisingly well.

A comparison of the early LWFAMAW dances in first ed. Playford with the
two LWFAMAW Italian dances I am aware of (from 1581, although the dance
is considerably older than its first publication, and 1602, although
again the dance is older - and the form described in 1551 is actually a
set for three couples, not a LWFAMAW!) would be fascinating - the 
elements of the earlier style of progression are there!

Susan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:22:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:20:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <49529.148.184.176.32.1010582449.squirrel-AT-
www.weitzman.com>
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References: <20020109.074052.-1908465.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Butterfly Position? Is that from Playford?

Bread and filling I can picture but I'm having troubles w/ the butter-flying 
part.

/r
P.S. Is this a joke ;-?

> This is my current version (I change it frequently) of a community type
> dance that Englishman Geoff Hughes taught at Pinewoods in the late 70s.
>  His version was a 4C set, but a 48-bar tune.  The distinctive (first)
> figure is the same as his.
> 
> 
> 4C longways set
> 
> A1	1-8	1C and 4C, butterfly position, galop at each other, and, at 
the
> last possible minute, the Bottom couple (the Bread) separate and the
> First couple (the FIlling) slip in between.  Return, the same way.  For
> an experienced group, I'd have the 1C at the bottom become bread, but
> for this inexperienced group I kept the First couple always Filling,
> regardless of where they were.  A "whee" noise at the critical moment
> provides some entertainment, at least for the caller.
> 
> A2	1-8	Top 4 and bottom 4, respectively, R star and L star
> 
> B1	1-8	All face the music,  March about 4 steps forward and then 1M 
and
> 1W each cast off, followed by others.  At bottom of set, 1C make a 2H
> arch and
> 
> B2	1-8	Everyone comes up (takes longer than you'd think)
> 
> 
> Allison
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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-- 
Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:34:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:20:44 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: progression (was Wedding Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <008801c19912$7226efe0$c18d01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020108174325.81516.qmail-AT-
web20010.mail.yahoo.com>



> > Alan wrote
> > "some of whom couldn't figure out which was right and which
> > was left"
> >
> --- Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I thought this was a prerequisite of all ECD dancers!!
>
> That we're not able to tell R from L? Or that we have to be able
> to tell? I've known a few that couldn't. It can cause problems
> with geometry.
>
> Andy
>

You've got it right - that we can't tell L from R.
This is often seen when (dare I say it) ladies look at their hands first
to decide which is left or right, before passing, say, right shoulder
with us.  Men just go walkabout in the direction which comes to mind
first!

Trev



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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:43:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:45:17 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEEEIBDAAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ric Goldman
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:26 AM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
>
>
> And yet another set of opinions, from someone who's done
> RenFaire, SCA, and MECD.
>
[snip]
>
> As to the original instructor of ECD, *her* name was Patti Blanco
> and she was responsible for the founding of the Southern RenFaire
> group The Merrie Pryanksters (which in fact still exists in its
> Northern California incarnation today), some of whose members
> went on to form Newcastle, the Brunos (the RenFaire men's Morris
> team), Pentangle, and other spinoffs.  In any case, she *did*
> teach Sharp siding as "the way" to side.  Whether she was even
> aware of Shaw siding or other aspects of MECD, I can't say.
>

Both Patti Blanco and Doug Berger did learn from a man who learned from C#.
Both taught dance at The Renaissance Pleasure Faire. They formed a dance
group at The Renaissance Pleasure Faire called Newcastle (named by Patti).
Doug founded Pipe & Bowl Morris, the Brunos, as a male team. Within a few
years Patti split with Newcastle (YOU try having 2 directors) and formed the
Merrie Pryanksters (your spelling may differ, the "y" is necessary and
silent) and Red Rose Morris (a mixed team).

The main differentiation between the 2 were social class, Pryanksters -
middle class, Newcastle/Pipe & Bowl - lower class, and stage performance
style, Pryanksters - plays with dancing, Newcastle - dancing with
introductions.

The dances are pretty much the same now that we have gone back to the
Playford version of Newcastle.

[snip]
>
> Thanx, Ric Goldman
> timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
> http://connect.to/ric
>
> P.S.  For those interested in RenFaire style ECD in the San
> Francisco Bay Area, feel free to contact me, or check out the
> Merrie Pryanksters websites at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pryanksters/ and www.pryanksters.org.

Norman Bradley
An old Pryankster

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:45:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:42:31 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3C48C7.BED1D7A8-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
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References: <20020109.074052.-1908465.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com> <49529.148.184.176.32.1010582449.squirrel-AT-
www.weitzman.com>

post-holiday-overeating, I should be avoiding bread & filling & butter, anyway.
But I'm curious to know what butterfly position is, too.  Flapping of wings??

--Deb

"Roger W. Broseus" wrote:
> Butterfly Position? Is that from Playford?
> Bread and filling I can picture but I'm having troubles w/ the butter-flying
> part.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:54:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:55:24 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlene Charette
> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 10:49 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
>
>
> Allison M Thompson wrote:
>
> Which foot? - SCA usually starts on the left foot, MECD on the right.
> That's because most Renaissance dance starts on the left. I believe
> Baroque dance starts on the right, but I'm not positive.

I was taught that Renaissance and Medieval COURT dances start on the left
foot and COUNTRY dances start on the right. At least that's the only way I
can keep it straight.

The Merrie Pryanksters and Newcastle start on the right foot. In the long
run I don't think it really matters as long as everybody starts on the SAME
foot. If you don't, figures like set and turn single become Renaissance Slam
Dancing. Siding can be even more dangerous.


Norman Bradley

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 05:59:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:59:20 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
Message-ID: <20020109135920.530C867CB-AT-
generalist.org>
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Ric Goldman writes: 
>etiquette, &c.  Certain things are "so" because they are
>"traditional", but "traditional" in this sense means "as we've done 
>it at RenFaire" which may or may not have anything to do with being 
>historically or theatrically correct.  As such, the RenFaire "universe" 
>has it's own set of "laws".  

I cannot help but have a somewhat negative opinion of an entity
which purports to be presenting a historical event but which refuses
to evolve its traditions in the face of improved scholarship.  This
is a problem in some elements of the SCA as well.  (And in both cases
made worse in that neither SCA nor RPF technically includes the mid-17th
century period in which country dances are first documentable anyway.)

>other spinoffs.  In any case, she *did* teach Sharp siding as"the way"
>to side.  Whether she was even aware of Shaw siding or other aspects of 
>MECD, I can't say.

I have always found the "Sharp siding" and "Shaw siding" terminology
a bit annoying.  I'm aware that those are shorthands for
"the siding Sharp taught at first before he realized it wasn't right"
and "the siding Pat Shaw taught, which is what Sharp wanted to do but
couldn't overcome the force of the tradition he had established", but
the terminology always implies to me that the two styles are both
speculative options of more-or-less equal validity.  

While it is still too "late" for SCA period, there *is* documentation
on how to do a figure which MECD people would call "Shaw siding" in
the early Baroque contradanse manuals of the 1700-1715 era.  Patri
Pugliese, in his article "English Country Dances in the SCA",
published in the SCA quarterly Tournaments Illuminated #68 (Fall
1983), includes one of those diagrams and cites several others in his
discussion of how to do the siding figure.  I have no idea what Shaw
based his reconstruction on - that's a bit before my time, perhaps 
someone can enlighten me? - but I would consider "Shaw siding" to be 
pretty firmly historically based and "Sharp siding" to be pretty much 
undocumentable and therefore a modern invention that really has no place 
in historical reconstructions.  (MECD can look out for itself, but I 
would submit that using Sharp's invention gives a warped idea of the 
original figures of the dances.)

Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
siding" (Sharp)?

Susan












================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:14:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:15:29 -0800
From: Norman Bradley <normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LPBBJKDHEJJOKCJNHOAEMEICDAAA.normanb-AT-
pryanksters.org>
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We have our own band consisting of various, strings, whistles, drums, and
clackers. Of our musicians last year only 1 didn't dance on stage. Our
Musical Director regularly dances AND plays his violin at the same time.

In our street sets some dances can keep going and going. Saturday Night and
Sunday Morning comes to mind, especially on Sunday morning.


Norman Bradley
Merrie Pryanksters

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Allison M Thompson
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 3:45 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: RenFair
>
>
> Could more detail be provided on the dances performed at these events?
> As I recall, somebody's initial posting suggested that the RenFaire
> version of Childgrove was danced with 3 Bs, or something like that.  How
> are other dances modified, either by figure or style or tempo?  And why?
> And by whom? Who plays for them, since a 3B Childgrove is probably not
> recorded.
>
> Allison
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:15:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:13:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Ian Andrew Engle <ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org>
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair) (fwd)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.10201090810.A4189-c100000-AT-
acme>
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> I'm not sure I've ever seen SCA people dance ECD with Italian steps, 
although the concept has floated around the SCA "dance geek" community.  

	I tried this with classes I did two summers past, but it quickly
became apparent that the rules that apply in doing late 16C Italian just
don't work when you try to apply them to 1st ed. Playford dances, or
rather to the ones I was working with: Sellegner's Round, Shaking of
Sheets, Pepper's Black and Heartsease.  My feeling is that even though the
USA country dances may have been initially influenced by the Italian
dances, they quickly developed their own independent style.  I have no
idea what that style was exactly, but it was different from the Italian.

> But Charles Garth, the noted dance historian/reconstructor, often mixes 
in some Italian footwork when he teaches the odd country dance here and 
there in his monthly Renaissance dance evenings.  Last month he even threw 
in a *galliard* country dance, which is a bit of a stretch to me
reconstructionwise, but worked surprisingly well.

	God, but I love how Charles' brain works.

> A comparison of the early LWFAMAW dances in first ed. Playford with the
two LWFAMAW Italian dances I am aware of (from 1581, although the dance
is considerably older than its first publication, and 1602, although
again the dance is older - and the form described in 1551 is actually a
set for three couples, not a LWFAMAW!) would be fascinating - the 
elements of the earlier style of progression are there!

	Catena d'Amore (1602) looks so much like an Appalachian longways
and acts so much like a reel that all I usually have to do is teach the
step sequence and then walk the dancers through the figures.  They put the
two together with little to no prompting.

	The Furioso (1581, but described as "d'Incerto" which means "of
uncertain origin" but which roughly translates in this context as
"traditional") has the dancers in their 3-couple set cross to the other
side, actives first, then inactives, and walk a haye so that another
couple ends up in the active position, then that all again and again.  And
with a change in the music another haye, a quick jaunt to a circle figure,
then finally back to the longways.  

	Most hilarious is that there is a 1602 dance, Fedelta d'Amore,
which appears to be the Furioso stripped to a single 3-dancer set.  Walk
to one end of the room and do a haye and then galliard(!).  Then back to
the other side, haye and galliard.  Walk, haye, galliard.  Then get into a
circle, go around, in, out, in, out, back to place, get out of the circle,
walk and haye.  (And you have to admire the original choreographer that he
took 5 pages to say that :-))

	Oh gods, I'm fixating again, aren't I?


					--Ian/Sion





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:39:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:39:16 -0500
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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on 1/9/02 8:59 AM, Susan at susan-AT-
generalist.org wrote:

> Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
> siding" (Sharp)?

Or perhaps "historical siding" and "Sharp siding"?

that would perhaps be more accurate and get rid of the confusing two names
beginning with "Sh."   For eons as a beginning dancer, I couldn't get them
straight and would just copy what other dancers were doing to understand the
call.

In actual teaching I've pretty much gone to using the more descriptive terms
"siding R-shldr" (or L-shldr) and "crescent siding" or "swirly siding" or
"side over & back."  (you can see I haven't yet settled on just one term for
"Sharp siding.")

Joyce Crouch

-----------------------------------------------------------------
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:42:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:42:02 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair) (fwd)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
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Ian writes:
[ECD with Italian steps]
>	I tried this with classes I did two summers past, but it quickly
>became apparent that the rules that apply in doing late 16C Italian just
>don't work when you try to apply them to 1st ed. Playford dances, or
>rather to the ones I was working with: Sellegner's Round, Shaking of
>Sheets, Pepper's Black and Heartsease.  My feeling is that even though the
>USA country dances may have been initially influenced by the Italian
>dances, they quickly developed their own independent style.  I have no
>idea what that style was exactly, but it was different from the Italian.

IIRC - and it has been a couple of months - Charles Garth was doing
minor things like changing doppii to seguiti semidopii.  It added some
charm without being so tough as to confuse people or so elaborate as to
alter the character of the dance.  One thing that drives me nuts about
his teaching at these events is that he often doesn't bother to explain
what he's doing, he just teaches it.  I always end up asking him questions
between dances or at the breaks.

>> But Charles Garth, the noted dance historian/reconstructor, often mixes 
>in some Italian footwork when he teaches the odd country dance here and 
>there in his monthly Renaissance dance evenings.  Last month he even threw 
>in a *galliard* country dance, which is a bit of a stretch to me
>reconstructionwise, but worked surprisingly well.
>
>	God, but I love how Charles' brain works.

I don't agree with everything he does, but it's invariably stimulating
intellectually.  One move I thought did *not* work was having to
two-hand-turn one's neighbor once and a half around (progressing) in
*two* cinquepassi.  You just don't get around.  One that I thought
was lovely was the active couple (four couple set, one active couple)
using an eleven-step to go from the bottom of the set back to the
top, cadenza-ing into places.  Very nice.

>	Catena d'Amore (1602) looks so much like an Appalachian longways
>and acts so much like a reel that all I usually have to do is teach the
>step sequence and then walk the dancers through the figures.  They put the
>two together with little to no prompting.

Chiaranzana (1581, but mentioned all the way back into the 15thc) and
Caccia d'Amore (1602) were the ones I had in mind.  

>	The Furioso (1581, but described as "d'Incerto" which means "of
>uncertain origin" but which roughly translates in this context as
>"traditional") has the dancers in their 3-couple set cross to the other
>side, actives first, then inactives, and walk a haye so that another
>couple ends up in the active position, then that all again and again.  And
>with a change in the music another haye, a quick jaunt to a circle figure,
>then finally back to the longways.  

And iirc, the "active" couple is the *middle* couple of the three, yes?
"Active" is a slippery concept - I have one research project with a
dance that has everything done sides first, then middles (3-cu set
again) then finally switches to the leaders being the first man and
the third woman.  I'm still not sure if I'm reading that correctly,
it seems so odd!

>	Oh gods, I'm fixating again, aren't I?

Breathe deeply, be calm, it'll be all right.  

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 06:44:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:43:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Warm up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200201091443.OAA29205-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
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On Tuesday, January 08, 2002 at 02:31:28 PM, Torbin Zimmerman wrote:

> So let's not condemn all complex dances. Let's celebrate good dances of whatever character, even if some of them take a few minutes more to learn at first.

I wouldn't disagree!  I suspect the key issue here is that you need to get the right degree of complexity for the group of dancers concerned.  If you over-tax some of the dancers then they will most likely destroy the enjoyment for the others.  

My views on complexity came into focus many years ago when attending a dance being run at Cecil Sharp House in London by one of the EFDSS districts.  As was usual for a district event, the hall was much fuller than usual and the applause correspondingly louder.  After a while I started to puzzle as to why some dances received greater applause than others.  It suddenly dawned on me - the most popular dances were those where the dancers "almost" got it right.  Then I realised, the (EFDSS) dancers were getting far more pleasure from THINKING (head) that they had almost got something difficult right than they were from DANCING (body) something much simpler in time with the music.

I am sure that this does not apply to ECD in the USA but it is still a common phenonemon with EFDSS-based folk dancers in the UK.  

Michael Barraclough


--

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 07:45:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:44:03 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004d01c19924$c3e32440$609e01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20020109135920.530C867CB-AT-
generalist.org>


Susan wrote:
>
> I have always found the "Sharp siding" and "Shaw siding" terminology
> a bit annoying.  I'm aware that those are shorthands for
> "the siding Sharp taught at first before he realized it wasn't right"
> and "the siding Pat Shaw taught, which is what Sharp wanted to do but
> couldn't overcome the force of the tradition he had established", but
> the terminology always implies to me that the two styles are both
> speculative options of more-or-less equal validity.
>
> ...........>
> Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
> siding" (Sharp)?
>
> Susan


Some callers in England are now tending to call it:
Side-into-line (left or right) shoulder  [Shaw] or..
Swirl siding [Sharp]

This, in my opinion, gets rid of trying to differentiate between Shaw
and Sharp (as sometimes you only hear the caller say Sss siding) and
then on top of that you have to try and remember which is which before
going in the wrong direction completely.

Side into line, or swirl siding tell you immediately which type of
siding to do.

And about tradition.  Almost a century sounds quite traditional?!
Especially as many dances written in this time have been written
intentionally for swirl siding.  So there must be a place for both
types?

Trev



_________________________________________________________

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yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:41:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:40:25 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
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Quoth Trev:
>Some callers in England are now tending to call it:
>Side-into-line (left or right) shoulder  [Shaw] or..
>Swirl siding [Sharp]
>
(snip)
>
>Side into line, or swirl siding tell you immediately which type of
>siding to do.

When I teach I use "side" for siding and "change places" for the Sharp
thing.  But I am generally not teaching MECD, and when I am it isn't
in a MECD context.  Non-dancers have no obvious clue as to what
"siding" is, but getting side-by-side seems to be reasonably clear to
them.  And "change places" [with whomever] is extremely clear.

>And about tradition.  Almost a century sounds quite traditional?!
>Especially as many dances written in this time have been written
>intentionally for swirl siding.  So there must be a place for both
>types?

Like I said before, I expect MECD can take care of itself.  I regard
it as a new living folk tradition, not as historical reenactment.  And
as a living tradition, it has many (many many) new choroeographies and
new pieces of music which of course work from the traditions of MECD.
It's a different goal than historical reenactment, although the two
ideas can run along quite nicely together at times and many MECD people
have done wonderful historic research.

When I do MECD, I simply think of it as a different dance form - when
I'm already tracking differences between about ten different historic
dance forms, adding one more is not a big deal.  The problems come
along with people who only know *one* form and have the impression
that there *is* only one, and get really rocked by the existence of
others.  Once you acknowledge the existence of both A and B, the news
that there is also a C, and perhaps a D, an E, and more is not nearly
such a big conceptual jump.

Susan









================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:02:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:50:21 +0000
From: Alan Williams <Alan.Williams-AT-
oaklands.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <A073250CB817D511A47600D0B78EED69127462-AT-
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Regrettably, or otherwise, one has to admit that in many UK groups I know,
the common currency for Sharp siding is 'banana' siding - fairly descriptive
of the track one takes.

Kind regards
       Alan

alan.williams-AT-
oaklands.ac.uk
(Work) 01727 737000 ext.6783
(Mobile) 078 555 732 85
66 Longmead 
Hatfield
AL10 0AN



-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Crouch [mailto:joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com]
Sent: 09 January 2002 14:39
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)


on 1/9/02 8:59 AM, Susan at susan-AT-
generalist.org wrote:

> Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
> siding" (Sharp)?

Or perhaps "historical siding" and "Sharp siding"?

that would perhaps be more accurate and get rid of the confusing two names
beginning with "Sh."   For eons as a beginning dancer, I couldn't get them
straight and would just copy what other dancers were doing to understand the
call.

In actual teaching I've pretty much gone to using the more descriptive terms
"siding R-shldr" (or L-shldr) and "crescent siding" or "swirly siding" or
"side over & back."  (you can see I haven't yet settled on just one term for
"Sharp siding.")

Joyce Crouch

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:03:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:03:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Head & Feet + Heart
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109170320.70183.qmail-AT-
web13604.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> wrote:

> susie lorand
> who won't mind at all if "bare necessities" keeps running through
> her head
> for a while, and who when playing the tune always wishes the dance
> were a longways...

We could do it nine times through instead of the usual six.  
Barbara
 


=====
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:36:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:36:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Taking Sides (was: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109173616.53342.qmail-AT-
web13607.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> on 1/9/02 8:59 AM, Susan at susan-AT-
generalist.org wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and
> "modern
> > siding" (Sharp)?
> 
> Or perhaps "historical siding" and "Sharp siding"?
> 
> that would perhaps be more accurate and get rid of the confusing
> two names
> beginning with "Sh."  

What I hear mostly nowadays is some variant on "side by side," or
"shoulder to shoulder" or "side into lines" vs. "curvey" "curly"
"swirly" (sounds like a new 3 Stooges variation) "half-moon" and
"banana" siding.  While the descriptive titles are certainly clearer
and more useful for teaching purposes, I have to confess that I enjoy
imagining dance historians of 200 years from now floating theories
about why the *curvy* move is called "sharp."   Alas, we've probably
left them too much documentation to be able to be imaginative.

=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 09:54:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:05:59 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Banana Siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OFD176AFBF.4FEAC501-ON85256B3C.0062EE66-AT-
infinity.com>
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Banana siding, *mode d'emploi*:
Approach partner or diagonal. Doesn't matter which shoulder: they'll never
make it. Deftly toss banana peel in other's path. Watch smiling innocently
as they sink to the floor. Run away making Roadrunner noises.

"Banana" siding? Oy vey.

Well, *any* term you select bears a little bit of explanation, unless
you're leading your own community, and everyone knows *exactly* what you
mean by "half-moon" or "into-line."

G

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 648
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.
                                           --Vergil, *Aeneis*



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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 10:36:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:33:19 -0500
From: Deb Karl <debkarl-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Banana Siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3C8CEE.2C19FB78-AT-
wi.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <OFD176AFBF.4FEAC501-ON85256B3C.0062EE66-AT-
infinity.com>

Graham, I think the step you're describing is properly called "Banana SLIDING".
;-)
Deb

Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com wrote:
> 
> Banana siding, *mode d'emploi*:
> Approach partner or diagonal. Doesn't matter which shoulder: they'll never
> make it. Deftly toss banana peel in other's path. Watch smiling innocently
> as they sink to the floor. Run away making Roadrunner noises.
> 
> "Banana" siding? Oy vey.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 10:39:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:50:54 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Banana Siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF7CFFFE6B.799A0C2A-ON85256B3C.0067855B-AT-
infinity.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Well, your mileage may vary...
Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 648
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems, BancWare
3 Post Office Square
Boston, MA  02109
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.
                                           --Vergil, *Aeneis*



**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
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the system manager.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:22:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:19:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCV86WGNPQ94MOFP-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Susan (susan-AT-
generalist.org) wrote:


> Like I said before, I expect MECD can take care of itself.  I regard
> it as a new living folk tradition, not as historical reenactment.  And
> as a living tradition, it has many (many many) new choroeographies and
> new pieces of music which of course work from the traditions of MECD.
> It's a different goal than historical reenactment, although the two
> ideas can run along quite nicely together at times and many MECD people
> have done wonderful historic research.

I completely, completely agree.


> When I do MECD, I simply think of it as a different dance form - when
> I'm already tracking differences between about ten different historic
> dance forms, adding one more is not a big deal.  The problems come
> along with people who only know *one* form and have the impression
> that there *is* only one, and get really rocked by the existence of
> others.  Once you acknowledge the existence of both A and B, the news
> that there is also a C, and perhaps a D, an E, and more is not nearly
> such a big conceptual jump.

Yes, indeed.

(I wouldn't ordinarily post just to agree, but both parts of this are so
completely in line with my visualization of the Cosmic All that I had to
applaud.)

-- Alan











===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:16:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:07:02 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109.161648.-1908465.5.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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All the observations on this topic were fascinating (and complicated!), 
Sounds like great material for someone's graduate ethnographic
thesis......

Allison
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:31:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:24:08 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109.163144.-1908465.6.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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Roger, you should know me well enough by now to know that I never make
jokes.  Life is funny enough without people wantonly going out and
deliberately creating humor.

"Butterfly position" was what I (believe I) was taught long long ago, and
is when partners stand chest to chest with their arms outstretched to the
side, but joined.  As in Cumberland Square 8. (What do you call it?)

And different from "banjo" position.

Regards

Allison



On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 08:20:49 -0500 (EST) "Roger W. Broseus"
<Roger-AT-
just.net> writes:
> Butterfly Position? Is that from Playford?
> 
> Bread and filling I can picture but I'm having troubles w/ the 
> butter-flying 
> part.
> 
> /r
> P.S. Is this a joke ;-?
> 
> > This is my current version (I change it frequently) of a community 
> type
> > dance that Englishman Geoff Hughes taught at Pinewoods in the late 
> 70s.
> >  His version was a 4C set, but a 48-bar tune.  The distinctive 
> (first)
> > figure is the same as his.
> > 
> > 
> > 4C longways set
> > 
> > A1	1-8	1C and 4C, butterfly position, galop at each 
> other, and, at 
> the
> > last possible minute, the Bottom couple (the Bread) separate and 
> the
> > First couple (the FIlling) slip in between.  Return, the same way. 
>  For
> > an experienced group, I'd have the 1C at the bottom become bread, 
> but
> > for this inexperienced group I kept the First couple always 
> Filling,
> > regardless of where they were.  A "whee" noise at the critical 
> moment
> > provides some entertainment, at least for the caller.
> > 
> > A2	1-8	Top 4 and bottom 4, respectively, R star and 
> L star
> > 
> > B1	1-8	All face the music,  March about 4 steps 
> forward and then 1M 
> and
> > 1W each cast off, followed by others.  At bottom of set, 1C make a 
> 2H
> > arch and
> > 
> > B2	1-8	Everyone comes up (takes longer than you'd 
> think)
> > 
> > 
> > Allison
> > ________________________________________________________________
> > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> > Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D.
> 

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:43:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01KCVB05DCU294GBBX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Allison wrote:

> Roger, you should know me well enough by now to know that I never make
> jokes.  Life is funny enough without people wantonly going out and
> deliberately creating humor.

Indeed.  (It's somewhat easier to keep a straight face in type than in person,
in my experience; it's certainly easier to tell blatant lies in print.)

> "Butterfly position" was what I (believe I) was taught long long ago, and
> is when partners stand chest to chest with their arms outstretched to the
> side, but joined.  As in Cumberland Square 8. (What do you call it?)

Hmmm.  Are both arms outstretched?  It sounds like you're describing 
what you'd get if you took poussette position and stepped in until you
were very close.

I can see why you'd call that butterfly position, but it's not how we do CS8
out here, which tends to be more 'ballroom position'; leading arms
outstretched, trailing arms around partner's waist or shoulder.  (Which,
indeed, means changing grips when you change direction, while the position you
describe is direction-neutral.)

> And different from "banjo" position.

I saw this referred to, but not explained, in a 1930s dance manual, and I 
finally concluded, looking at the illustration, that your arms are
approximately where they'd be if you were holding a banjo - left hand at the 
neck (the banjo's neck, not yours), right hand down the round part (mutatis
mutandis), left in left and right in right with partner.  Is this correct?  (I
guess the difference between that and the courtesy turn position in, say,
Margaret's Waltz, is that the right hand is behind the woman's back in courtesy
turn position, and it would be in front - and the partners closer together - in
banjo position.)

-- Alan

===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:45:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:44:48 -0500 (EST)
From: GenoQueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: (no subject)
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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Will you please change my subscription to the digest mode?  Thanks very much!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:54:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
To: GenoQueen-AT-
aol.com
CC: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Reine wrote:

> Will you please change my subscription to the digest mode?  Thanks very much!

I'm sure this was sent to the list rather than to me personally by accident,
but I'll take the chance to remind people of various options.  (In the
meantime, I've set her subscription to digest mode, so Reine won't see my
response until the next digest comes out.)

(1) Please don't send this kind of request to the list
(ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu).  If you can't figure out how to do what you
need, write to me (winston-AT-
slac.stanford.edu or
owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu), not the whole list.

(2) You can change the ECD mode to or from digest yourself.  If you didn't save
your signup notice that explained how to make changes, you can find a link to
the signup letter on the web at the ECD list website,
http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.htmlx

(3) To save you the trouble, changing to digest mode (get wads of ECD list mail
bundled together, resulting in less-frequent, big messages when there's lots of
traffic and very infrequent, small messages when there's no traffic) is done
like this:

Make sure you're sending from an account configured with the email address you
signed up with (AOL lets you have up to five screen names, for example, and if
you're using a different one, the ECD-list robot won't recognize you).

Send mail 

To: ECD-Request-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu  
Subj: blank or anything you want to put here - it's ignored
SET DIGEST
QUIT

(QUIT tells the robot to ignore anything that follows, so it doesn't try to
understand your signature as commands).

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:53:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:56:43 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: banana siding
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020109144959.00a5c650-AT-
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At 04:50 PM 1/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Regrettably, or otherwise, one has to admit that in many UK groups I know,
>the common currency for Sharp siding is 'banana' siding - fairly descriptive
>of the track one takes.

Yes, I've heard this and it confuses me.   When I was teaching kids they 
used to call a castoff where everyone follows the leader to the bottom of 
the set "peeling the banana."  So when I hear "banana siding" I think I'm 
supposed to cast off.

Victoria

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:21:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:21:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020109232118.92110.qmail-AT-
web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org> wrote:
> Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and
> "modern siding" (Sharp)?

Recognizing that Shaw's interpretation is supported by
historical documents (OLD), and that Sharp's version was
probably something he made up (NEW) with no supporting
documentation that anyone has ever found, in the context of the
living memory of those who have danced in the past 75 years,
Sharp's version is the OLD version and Shaw's interpretation is
the NEW one. Those of us who were dancing before Shaw's
interpretation came to light sometime in the early 70's learned
_everything_ with Sharp siding, and for many dances I prefer it,
not just because it is what I'm familiar with for many dances,
but also because I feel more of a connection with the other
person _if_ it's done right. Here again though, I find that many
people don't do it well. I was taught to face the person I am
siding with and move sideways in a semi-circle approximately 2/3
of the way to their place and back to my place (eye contact all
the way), a movement that can be very connected and intimate.
Many people walk straight over to the other person's place turn
and walk back, hardly even looking at the other person. That
certainly isn't very sociable. I don't find the
Shaw/shoulder-to-shoulder/old/historical/half-gyp... version as
connected/intimate with more of a sidways glance at the other
person and to me the line takes away the intimate feeling of
just the two of you dancing the figure together. There are,
however, dances in which I prefer the Shaw interpretation.
Christine taught Nonesuch with shoulder-to-shoulder and turn
single back to place. That certainly works much better than the
side over and turn single using Sharp's version. In other
dances, the transition from the previous figure into siding can
be awkward using Sharps version.

Andy



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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:01:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:00:57 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020110000101.TMML14468.lowblow-AT-
[216.170.168.6]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It's not the most palatable thing in the world, but I often sip cider 
vinegar when a cold is in the early "sore throat stage."  It would be 
interesting to see double-blind studies of all these remedies... but 
in the admittedly small statistical sample (1) on which I have tested 
the cider vinegar remedy, the anecdotal evidence says that it works.

Paul Stamler wrote:  

>The formula is 50/50 -- half water (preferably not freezing cold, but
>lukewarm), half drugstore hydrogen peroxide. Make enough for two guggles;
>gargle them well back in the throat, then gargle with plain water, again not
>too cold. If you catch it early enough, you can knock out a cold a-forming,
>or even the flu -- both viruses, during the early stages of infection, live
>in the back of the throat.
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>
>(with thanks to Rebecca's brother, Steve Taylor, MD)
>
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From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
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Well there you go.  I always thought that the butterfly position referred to the "Gay Gordons" type hold where you hold hands (mans left to ladies left, man's right to ladies right, behind the ladies head).  This figure was comes as far as I know from Scotland where it was known in the 18th/19th centuries as an allemande hold and was erroneously introduced into English Folk dancing when it was ascribed to the dance Moll in the Wad in the publication Seven Midlands Dances and is generally referred to as a butterfly hold in the UK.

Michael Barraclough


--

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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:17:21 -0800
From: Mary Luckhardt <mary-AT-
luckhardt.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
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On 1/9/02 1:26 AM Ric Goldman said:

>As to the original instructor of ECD, *her* name was Patti Blanco and she 
>was responsible for the founding of the Southern RenFaire group The Merrie 
>Pryanksters (which in fact still exists in its Northern California 
>incarnation today), some of whose members went on to form Newcastle, the 
>Brunos (the RenFaire men's Morris team), Pentangle, and other spinoffs.  
>In any case, she *did* teach Sharp siding as "the way" to side.  Whether 
>she was even aware of Shaw siding or other aspects of MECD, I can't say.

When I danced with Newcastle 10-15 years ago, and still, I would presume, 
one dance was done with what we now call Shaw, or side-by-side siding: 
Childgrove.  I still prefer it (I prefer side-by-side in most dances, 
though most of the "classics" are usually taught with Sharp siding.  I 
guess that's the influence of the Playford Ball Book).  But we did it as 
an improper set, as we do in MECD.

Mary Luckhardt
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:22:03 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
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Not only in the UK...
The discussion about these positions piqued my interest, and I 
checked the glossaries of about 20 square dance books to see 
what they had to say.  Two of the books use the term "Butterfly 
Position" the way that Michael describes it here.  I've more 
often heard that position called "Varsouvienne" (sp?).  

But the Banjo position was what really got me digging.  I *know* 
I've seen that carefully described in some old square dance book, 
but now can't find it.  If my memory serves me correctly (fat 
chance) The common "Ice-Skater" promenade position, with Gent on 
left and Lady on right, is sometimes called "Sidecar."  Reverse 
that, with Gent on right and Lady on left, and you have "Banjo."  
Does anyone know for sure about this?


Michael Barraclough wrote:  

>Well there you go.  I always thought that the butterfly position referred 
>to the "Gay Gordons" type hold where you hold hands (mans left to ladies 
>left, man's right to ladies right, behind the ladies head).  This figure 
>was comes as far as I know from Scotland where it was known in the 
>18th/19th centuries as an allemande hold and was erroneously introduced 
>into English Folk dancing when it was ascribed to the dance Moll in the 
>Wad in the publication Seven Midlands Dances and is generally referred to 
>as a butterfly hold in the UK.
>
>Michael Barraclough
>
>
>--
>
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:34:39 -0800
From: Paul / Victoria Bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: banjo position
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 08:22 PM 1/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
>But the Banjo position was what really got me digging.  I *know*
>I've seen that carefully described in some old square dance book,
>but now can't find it.  If my memory serves me correctly (fat
>chance) The common "Ice-Skater" promenade position, with Gent on
>left and Lady on right, is sometimes called "Sidecar."  Reverse
>that, with Gent on right and Lady on left, and you have "Banjo."
>Does anyone know for sure about this?


This is not what I remember.  To get into banjo position take ballroom 
hold, then shift sideways to the left and step toward your partner so that 
right hips are adjacent. The left arm will be almost straight, the right 
arm curved as though playing a banjo.

Victoria





>Michael Barraclough wrote:
>
> >Well there you go.  I always thought that the butterfly position referred
> >to the "Gay Gordons" type hold where you hold hands (mans left to ladies
> >left, man's right to ladies right, behind the ladies head).  This figure
> >was comes as far as I know from Scotland where it was known in the
> >18th/19th centuries as an allemande hold and was erroneously introduced
> >into English Folk dancing when it was ascribed to the dance Moll in the
> >Wad in the publication Seven Midlands Dances and is generally referred to
> >as a butterfly hold in the UK.
> >
> >Michael Barraclough
> >
> >
> >--
> >


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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:54:06 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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susan-AT-
generalist.org wrote (in part):

Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
siding" (Sharp)?

Would that it were so simple. While Sharp's siding was a modern
invention based on a morris figure, there is a renaissance Italian
figure that is rather like. Instead of arcing around each other the
dancers start as in historical siding but pivot at the end to reverse
the presented shoulder. I think you may know the figure and I'm sure
that you can identify the source sooner than I. It's almost a blend of
the "historical" and "modern forms", isn't it?

As a footnote, the evidence for historical siding comes not only from
Feuillet - Essex but also was passed by word-of-mouth across
generations. There was an interesting series about this in English Dance
and Song in the 1920s. I f I can find the references, I'll post them.

Best regards,
Albert

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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:40:22 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Just my $.02 as a matter of ease when calling, I simply say "siding" to both.  However when teaching, it's "swirl" (Sharp) siding or "shoulder" (Shaw) siding.

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord-AT-
rgoldman.org
http://connect.to/ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Albert Blank
> and Nancy DeVore
> Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 7:54 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
> 
> 
> susan-AT-
generalist.org wrote (in part):
> 
> Perhaps they can be renamed "historical siding" (Shaw) and "modern
> siding" (Sharp)?
> 
[snip]

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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:06:58 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RenFair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Allison M Thompson wrote:
 
> Could more detail be provided on the dances performed at these events?
> As I recall, somebody's initial posting suggested that the RenFaire
> version of Childgrove was danced with 3 Bs, or something like that.  How
> are other dances modified, either by figure or style or tempo?  And why?
> And by whom? Who plays for them, since a 3B Childgrove is probably not
> recorded.

I once had a former California RenFair performer at my SCA dances.  He
brought a practice tape to share some of his dances with use.  All of
the dances on their tape had an extra "A" section (can't remember what
dances were on the tape other than Argeers).  The extra "A" had
something to do with getting set up for the dance.  Sorry for the lack
of details, it's been a couple of years.

--Charlene

-- 
How can "crash course" and "collision course" have two different
meanings?  -- George Carlin
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Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:36:31 PST
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:35:43 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> While I have no hesitation in calling most MECD reconstruction bogus (which
> doesn't mean I don't like it), is it any easier to be much less bogus when
> going, from, say, 1st-ed Playford, where the footwork isn't specified?
> Are you just saying that those who 'go to the original' are following what
> description there is more closely?

Ah, yes.  Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I meant floor patterns rather than
footwork.  While not all teachers do so, I usually point out that we
have no idea what they were doing with their feet.  (Same with the
English measures.)  For example, I've seen several places where Sharp
replaced slides with doubles.

--Charlene

-- 
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meanings?  -- George Carlin
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:35:47 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Ric Goldman wrote:

> I think this may be a regional attribute.  In SCA events in Texas, Colorado, and California, I have only seen Sharp siding done.  However, both these areas have strong renaissance festival presences and it has appeared to me that often the SCA dancing usually reflects the norm used in the renaissance festival in that area.  However, I don't have enough data points to make a general.  It may also be something that has changed over time, since my Texas and Colorado observances are 10-15 years old.

I've been in the SCA in Texas for about 10 years and have never seen
Sharp siding done in an SCA setting.  We had a major shift in dance
teachers around then so that may have caused the change.

> FWIW, my involvement with SCA groups and dance was that a strict adherence to historical interpretation is not always a requirement, and in many cases is not even desired.  I'm sure some groups (SCA, RenFaire, or 

The SCA, in general, seems to be moving towards more authenticity (in
all areas, not just dance).  Again, this has been in the last 10 years
or so.  Of course, any given group is at a different point on the
scale.  This can cause some interesting clashes at inter-group events.

> I guess I'm saying I don't feel that there really isn't correlation between historical treatment and whether you're SCA, RenFest, or MECD that you imply.

I was speaking in generalities.  There certainly are Renfair and SCA
groups that don't give a hoot about history and MECD groups that do.

> All that aside, there IS a major difference in RenFaire dancing vs. MECD.  In RenFaire dancing, you usually LEARN THE DANCE.  In MECD, you LEARN HOW TO DANCE TO A CALLER.  RenFaire dancing does tend to be limited, 

True.  The first few times I did MECD, this took a little getting used
to.

--Charlene

-- 
How can "crash course" and "collision course" have two different
meanings?  -- George Carlin
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:35:52 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Susan wrote:

> in historical reconstructions.  (MECD can look out for itself, but I
> would submit that using Sharp's invention gives a warped idea of the
> original figures of the dances.)

However, some MECD dances have been choreographed using Sharp's version
of siding and would seem strange with siding-into-a-line.  So, I can see
a need for both styles in MECD.

--Charlene

-- 
How can "crash course" and "collision course" have two different
meanings?  -- George Carlin
=====
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Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:35:56 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Norman Bradley wrote:

> I was taught that Renaissance and Medieval COURT dances start on the left
> foot and COUNTRY dances start on the right. At least that's the only way I
> can keep it straight.

Well, we know that Ren dances started on the left, and we know later
dances started on the right.  We just don't know when and how it
changed.  So... whatever works for you.
 
> The Merrie Pryanksters and Newcastle start on the right foot. In the long
> run I don't think it really matters as long as everybody starts on the SAME
> foot. If you don't, figures like set and turn single become Renaissance Slam
> Dancing. Siding can be even more dangerous.

Unless we're doing a performance I don't get uptight about which foot
someone's on in ECD.  If they can start on either foot and still not run
into anyone, I'm happy.  Ren dance I get pickier because in many of
those dances it does make a difference.  But then, we're not really
doing any "footwork" in ECD.

--Charlene

-- 
How can "crash course" and "collision course" have two different
meanings?  -- George Carlin
=====
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:38:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
> I've more often heard that position called "Varsouvienne"
> (sp?).  

I've always known "Varsouvienne" as the hold where the man's
right arm is behind the woman's shoulders holding right in right
beside her head. Left arms are held high in front. This allows
both to do a turn to face the other way which puts the man's
left arm across her shoulders. The Scottish dance "Gay Gordon's"
comes to mind.

Andy

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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:45:18 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan wrote:
> but it's not how we do CS8
>out here, which tends to be more 'ballroom position'; ...  (Which,
>indeed, means changing grips when you change direction, 

Really? Is changing grips usual?
I've only ever seen ballrom position with man's left hand extended; when
chasseeing in the other direction, we turn our heads to see where we're
going, but my left hand will still be outstretched and trailing.

But I'm ready to be corrected.



Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 07:46:13 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Quoth Charlene:
>Well, we know that Ren dances started on the left, and we know later
>dances started on the right.  We just don't know when and how it
>changed.  So... whatever works for you.

That's not strictly accurate.

We know that most 15th and 16thc Italian dances started on the left.
We have some evidence that 16th-17thc English dances started on the 
left.  We know that some 15th-17thc French dances started on the left.

We know that in Baroque dance, the tendency was to start on mirror
feet (men-L/women-R or vice-versa).  

We know that in the early 19thc, (1800-1820) country dances were
danced with everyone starting on the right foot and the footwork 
became rather strenuous.

We know that by the 1840's it was back to mirror feet as the footwork
evaporated, and very definitely men-L/women-R.

We haven't a clue that I'm aware of how country dances in the 1650-1700ish
period started but you could make a convincing case for either left
feet or mirror feet, depending on whether you consider them stylistically
more of the Baroque contradanse period or of the pre-1600 period
(or whether you wanted to try to push them one way or the other.)

I would say starting with right feet would mark it as early
19th-century in tradition, altered by removing the footwork.  That
isn't a particular issue for MECD, but I would find it problematic for
historical reenactment.

What did Sharp teach regarding starting feet?  My one Sharp manual
(CDB Vol. II) doesn't seem to specify a starting foot, although he
does explain the single using right to start.  I'm just doing a fast
skim, though, so maybe I'm missing it.  This is the 1927 third edition
CDB-II.

Susan






================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:05:42 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Quoth Charlene:
>Susan wrote:
>> in historical reconstructions.  (MECD can look out for itself, but I
>> would submit that using Sharp's invention gives a warped idea of the
>> original figures of the dances.)
>
>However, some MECD dances have been choreographed using Sharp's version
>of siding and would seem strange with siding-into-a-line.  So, I can see
>a need for both styles in MECD.

Sorry, I really stated that badly.  I think that for
reconstructing/interpreting actual historical dances to be danced in a
MECD context, Sharp siding would give a misleading idea of the
original figures.  For original choreographies that certainly wouldn't
matter.  I still think the terminology is confusing, though.

Susan
================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:13:44 -0500 (EST)
From: susan-AT-
generalist.org (Susan)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: susan-AT-
generalist.org
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Quoth Albert:
>Would that it were so simple. While Sharp's siding was a modern
>invention based on a morris figure, there is a renaissance Italian
>figure that is rather like. Instead of arcing around each other the
>dancers start as in historical siding but pivot at the end to reverse
>the presented shoulder. I think you may know the figure and I'm sure
>that you can identify the source sooner than I. It's almost a blend of
>the "historical" and "modern forms", isn't it?

I'm guessing you mean the figure (and it's common enough that I think
it achieves that status, although it's done with a variety of steps)
where the partners approach each other, then pass right shoulders and
"turn to the left changing places".  Or the reverse, of course -
sometimes it's done in pairs so you switch back and forth, sometimes
not, or with an intervening figure.  I think that differs from Sharp's
figure in that you turn *away* from your partner as you change places,
rather than towards them.  It's almost an "S" shape and in pairs
becomes something much like a figure-eight.  Very pretty figure.

>As a footnote, the evidence for historical siding comes not only from
>Feuillet - Essex but also was passed by word-of-mouth across
>generations. There was an interesting series about this in English Dance
>and Song in the 1920s. I f I can find the references, I'll post them.

Please do!  I have access to all the volumes at the library but 
have never really dug through all the early stuff, since MECD isn't
my real focus.

Susan
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 06:24:34 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 08:24:26 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position? (was Re: Lady Godiva's Galop)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[216.170.168.6]>
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Righto... 

that's just what the illustration in one of the books displayed.


Andrew Peterson wrote:  

>--- Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com> wrote:
>> I've more often heard that position called "Varsouvienne"
>> (sp?).  
>
>I've always known "Varsouvienne" as the hold where the man's
>right arm is behind the woman's shoulders holding right in right
>beside her head. Left arms are held high in front. This allows
>both to do a turn to face the other way which puts the man's
>left arm across her shoulders. The Scottish dance "Gay Gordon's"
>comes to mind.
>
>Andy
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:37:17 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:37:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: More Sides to Take (was SCA dance ECD vs MECD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Sharon,
Would this be the "1/4 siding" that was in the dance you taught at
NOMAD a couple of years ago?  "Two Cousins" or something like that? 
If so it is indeed a pretty figure, and a dance that deserves more
distribution.
Barbara


--- Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org> wrote:
> I'm guessing you mean the figure (and it's common enough that I
> think
> it achieves that status, although it's done with a variety of
> steps)
> where the partners approach each other, then pass right shoulders
> and
> "turn to the left changing places".  Or the reverse, of course -
> sometimes it's done in pairs so you switch back and forth,
> sometimes
> not, or with an intervening figure.  I think that differs from
> Sharp's
> figure in that you turn *away* from your partner as you change
> places,
> rather than towards them.  It's almost an "S" shape and in pairs
> becomes something much like a figure-eight.  Very pretty figure.
> 


=====
"There is no inverse relationship between freedom and security. Less of one does not lead to more of the other. People with no rights are not safe from terrorist attack."  Molly Ivins

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:52:55 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:52:32 -0500 (EST)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Would the hydo/perox combo work for laryngitis too?    Sandra
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:53:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Banana Siding
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Graham, with his usual precision of thought, said

>Banana siding, *mode d'emploi*:
>Approach partner or diagonal. Doesn't matter which shoulder: they'll never
>make it. Deftly toss banana peel in other's path. Watch smiling innocently
>as they sink to the floor. Run away making Roadrunner noises.

Please let me know when you'll be giving a workshop in 
run-away-making-Roadrunner-noises.  I've never been able to get that part 
quite right.

Or shall we all start carrying signs which say "Ooops" so we can hold them up 
(in the manner of Wile E. Coyote) as we slip on the peel?  That would 
cetainly lend a unique character to the dance.

Nilos, raised on Warner Bros. cartoons like every other Baby Boomer and not 
ashamed to admit it
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:24:52 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003901c19a04$199f46e0$49284b0c-AT-
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<<Would the hydo/perox combo work for laryngitis too?    Sandra>>

It might help a little, but my guess is not much. The peroxide kills bugs
that cause colds and flu, but usually laryngitis is the result of mechanical
irritation caused by coughing, etc.. The H2O2 gets at the underlying cause,
but doesn't do much for the symptom -- and by the time you're at the
laryngitis stage, the bugs have probably moved beyond the throat anyway. I'd
suggest doing the H2O2 just to kill what you can get to, but hot water with
honey (or herb tea with honey -- I like Lemon Zinger or peppermint) will
probably do more for the laryngitis.

Good luck.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:38:03 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:40:02 -0800
From: Ruth Temple <ruthtemple-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Roadrunner noise tutorials, was Banana Siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Regarding Roadrunner noise tutorials:
As the bus-driver said to the lady who asked (in Minnesota-Scandihoovian
accent), "Duss t'is buss go tu Dulut'?"
No, it goess "beep-beep" like all de ot'er bussess!"

toodaloot,
Ruth

Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> 
> Graham, with his usual precision of thought, said
> 
> >Banana siding, *mode d'emploi*:
> >Approach partner or diagonal. Doesn't matter which shoulder: they'll never
> >make it. Deftly toss banana peel in other's path. Watch smiling innocently
> >as they sink to the floor. Run away making Roadrunner noises.
> 
> Please let me know when you'll be giving a workshop in
> run-away-making-Roadrunner-noises.  I've never been able to get that part
> quite right.
> 
> Or shall we all start carrying signs which say "Ooops" so we can hold them up
> (in the manner of Wile E. Coyote) as we slip on the peel?  That would
> cetainly lend a unique character to the dance.
> 
> Nilos, raised on Warner Bros. cartoons like every other Baby Boomer and not
> ashamed to admit it
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:40:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: SCA dance ECD vs MECD (was Re: RenFair)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020110184011.64337.qmail-AT-
web20004.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Susan <susan-AT-
generalist.org> wrote:
> What did Sharp teach regarding starting feet?  My one Sharp
> manual (CDB Vol. II) doesn't seem to specify a starting foot,
> although he does explain the single using right to start.  I'm
> just doing a fast skim, though, so maybe I'm missing it.  This
> is the 1927 third edition CDB-II.

I don't know what his specific preference was, but I don't
remember May Gadd's teaching as being specific to either foot.
If a dance has a set in it I always find it easier to start the
preceding figure right foot first because that way I end with my
weight on the left ready to step right on the set. I do remember
Genny Shimer doing a little catch step occasionally to get on
the better foot for executing an upcoming figure, but other than
setting right, then left, there wasn't much emphasis at all on
being on any specific foot. I know that there are some dances in
which I step the hard foot to start a cast because I want to end
the cast ready to step into the next figure. I've always felt
that which foot you are on doesn't really matter most of the
time. I think that is because emphasis wasn't placed on it when
I was learning.

Even for performance of ECD I don't think footwork is nearly as
big a deal as many people make of it. I've watched videos of
performances in which I know that major goofs happened in the
set, but they aren't that obvious in the video, even if you are
looking for them, and they aren't nearly as noticable to the
audience. The audience is taking in the overall visual effect of
the patterns and rarely notices those little disasters that loom
so big from within the set. Yes, which foot you are on is
important for turning couple dances, a Balkan line dance or a
can-can line, but not nearly so for ECD.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:41:48 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 13:41:30 -0500 (EST)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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thank you Paul   Sandra
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:52:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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-- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
<<Would the hydo/perox combo work for laryngitis too?  Sandra>>
> 
> It might help a little, but my guess is not much. The peroxide
> kills bugs that cause colds and flu, but usually laryngitis is
> the result of mechanical irritation caused by coughing, etc..
> The H2O2 gets at the underlying cause, but doesn't do much for
> the symptom -- and by the time you're at the laryngitis stage,
> the bugs have probably moved beyond the throat anyway. I'd
> suggest doing the H2O2 just to kill what you can get to, but
> hot water with honey (or herb tea with honey -- I like Lemon
> Zinger or peppermint) will probably do more for the
laryngitis.

I usually drink water with just a little lemon in it. In winter
I heat it so it warms me. You are actually better off not having
it too hot. Something I learned about hypothermia is that
drinking something warm helps bring the core temperature up, but
drinking something hot can actually drop it. I was told that the
body's temperature sensors are located in the neck and if you
heat them up quickly the peripheral vessels open rapidly and
dump the cold blood back into the body. A body is actually
heated more quickly by slow warming.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:58:15 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 10:50:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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> Alan wrote:
> > but it's not how we do CS8
> >out here, which tends to be more 'ballroom position'; ...  (Which,
> >indeed, means changing grips when you change direction,

> Really? Is changing grips usual?

My claim ("out here") was limited to the San Francisco Bay Area in any case,
so I won't say it's "usual" over the whole range of people who do CS8 in  the
world; however, now you've got me doubting what we do anyway.

> I've only ever seen ballrom position with man's left hand extended; when
> chasseeing in the other direction, we turn our heads to see where we're
> going, but my left hand will still be outstretched and trailing.

> But I'm ready to be corrected.

My kinetic memory says "change grips", but that may just mean _I_ do it, since
I prefer to have the pointy end point where I'm going.  When I call it I don't
think I tell  people whether to change grips or not, unless somebody asks; I
tend to be precise on interface issues and silent on stuff that's between you
and your partner (unless somebody asks, unless I see people having trouble,
unless it affects the visual aesthetic of the whole dance).  Anybody else 
have an opinion of what practice is common in the Bay area?

In any case, even if we do it differently from you, identifying that is just
identifying that, not correcting you.

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:59:45 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Renaissance siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Quoth Albert:
>Would that it were so simple. While Sharp's siding was a modern
>invention based on a morris figure, there is a renaissance Italian
>figure that is rather like. Instead of arcing around each other the
>dancers start as in historical siding but pivot at the end to reverse
>the presented shoulder. I think you may know the figure and I'm sure
>that you can identify the source sooner than I. It's almost a blend of
>the "historical" and "modern forms", isn't it?

Quoth Susan:
I'm guessing you mean the figure (and it's common enough that I think
it achieves that status, although it's done with a variety of steps)
where the partners approach each other, then pass right shoulders and
"turn to the left changing places".  Or the reverse, of course -
sometimes it's done in pairs so you switch back and forth, sometimes
not, or with an intervening figure.  I think that differs from Sharp's
figure in that you turn *away* from your partner as you change places,
rather than towards them.  It's almost an "S" shape and in pairs
becomes something much like a figure-eight.  Very pretty figure.

Not quite. The figure, as I was taught in a renaissance class, possibly
at Amherst Early Music week but it could have been elsewhere, goes like
this:
    Partners move in circular arcs as though to pass shoulders, then
pivot 180 degrees on the outside foot to present contrary shoulders,
shoulder-to-shoulder. Very flirtatious and quite dramatic if done well.
As best I recall, the figure is completed by castiing away to places.

Albert

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:52:00 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> Alan wrote:
> > but it's not how we do CS8
> >out here, which tends to be more 'ballroom position'; ...  (Which,
> >indeed, means changing grips when you change direction,
>

and Martin wrote:
> Really? Is changing grips usual?
> I've only ever seen ballrom position with man's left hand extended;
when
> chasseeing in the other direction, we turn our heads to see where
we're
> going, but my left hand will still be outstretched and trailing.
>
> But I'm ready to be corrected.
>

The way I have all ways seen (and danced) CS8 in England is in "normal"
ballroom hold (mens left hand, ladies right extended forward) and gallop
across, men passing back to back.  On the return journey the hold is
exactly the same, but heads are turned to see where you are going, and
ladies pass back to back.

My understanding of a butterfly hold has all ways been as in the Gay
Gordons.

Trev.




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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 12:28:47 PST
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:29:08 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renaissance siding
To: ECD-AT-
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sprintmail.com>

Oops!

I meant, pivot on the INSIDE foot. Each has moved a quarter oval and are
a distance apart and aligned and this brings the partners together in
the same line.

Ciao,
Albert


================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:30:33 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
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In a message dated 1/10/02 12:54:09 PM, S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com writes:

<< Would the hydo/perox combo work for laryngitis too?  >>

Dunno, but I've got a seriously bleached throat :-)

Judy
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:53:08 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10201101639400.13749-100000-AT-
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a timely subject for me as i slurp my garlic soup (the vegetarian's
alternative to chicken soup), sip ginger or slippery-elm-bark tea or hot
water with lemon & honey, and try to remain hydrated so that my voice will
come back.

some more suggestions for vocal care that i've picked up through years of
choral singing and a bit of voice & vocal pedagogy study:

minimize your intake of caffeine and alcohol; drink lots of water and
other non-drying liquids.  

talk as little as possible when your throat is sore or your voice is
hoarse. 

if you must talk, avoid talking over noise (car engines, traffic,
amplified music).

i've been told that whispering is actually harder on the vocal cords than
speaking with whatever croak you can muster.  can anyone corroborate this?

breathing steam from a pot of hot water with a towel over one's head can
loosen congestion. 

--susie lorand 
who's glad that her fiddle can still speak, and resolves to try H2O2
and/or vinegar at the first sign of a sore throat next time

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:09:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Ease and Elegance Redux
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <20020110220921.55596.qmail-AT-
web12207.mail.yahoo.com>
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Ease & Elegance, Fried deMetz Herman's annual English
Country dance workshop and party, is scheduled for
Saturday, 19 January 2002.

The Saturday dance workshop is from 1:30pm to 5:00pm;
the evening party begins at 7:30pm and ends at
10:30pm. Presented by Country Dancers of Westchester,
it will be held at the Church in the Highlands, White
Plains, NY.
 
Musicians are Leah Barkan, piano; John Austin, violin;
and Sue Polansky, clarinet.

If you'd like to attend, you can apply in advance
to register. Send your name, address, and, optionally,
phone number and/or e-mail address with a check (not
optional!) payable to 'Country Dancers of Westchester'
for $18.00 per person to . . .

Carl Andersen, Registrar
303 Linden Tree Rd
Wilton, CT 06897-1600
 
For those coming to the event from New York City,
White Plains is a 30-minute rail trip on Metro North 
from Grand Central Terminal. Bluebell is available to
meet the train arriving at White Plains station.
Anyone needing a ride in Bluebell must call Susan
Murrow first [(914) 762-8619].
 
For more information, contact Susan or Leah Barkan
at (914) 693-5577; Fried Herman at (914) 834-9350;
or e-mail the Registrar.
 


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Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:55:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:33:33 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly and Banjo Holds
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020110.185448.-1907257.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Oh dear, sometimes one wishes one had not laid one's dainty finger tips
on the keyboard.

OK, so I agree with Alan's more accurate description of what I called
"butterfly"position which is like taking hands for a pousette but coming
in closer almost so--as R**** said, one's, um, protuberances almost
meet--and that so that one's arms are extended quite as straight out from
one's body as one's partner will permit.

Now, there are several sub-questions in this thread:  for example, I took
it for granted that that The Butterfly was how Everybody Did Cumberland
Square 8, though the comments do bring back a dim memory of the position
that Alan described, which was like a half-butterfly (little grasshopper)
and that the moving couples would have to switch holds half-way through
which was Always Tricky and which may have led, long ago when mammoths
were alive, to doing the dance with what we might call a Full Butterfly
all the way over and back. (Alas, the Full  Monty version was never fully
researched by C. Sharp. Perhaps Maud put her foot down.)

And, in respectful deference to Our Cousins Across the Sea, I don't
believe that I've heard of the "Allemande Position" with both people
facing forward and the hands joined behind the lady's defenseless head,
as in Gae Gordons, as being termed a "butterfly hold".  I have always
called this an "allemande hold." But I am not well-travelled.

And for the "banjo hold," I only know of it in reference to one unique
contra dance (which since this is an ECD Bulletin Board, she remarked,
primming up her lips in a disdainful moue, I shahn't share with you). But
the hold was more like a side-by-side one-step hold--quite *intime*--and
probably not of interest to today's swing-mad contra dancers. So nyah!

With respectful regards,

Allison


On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:32:53 -0700 (PDT) Alan Winston - SSRL Central
Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> writes:
> Allison wrote:
> 
> > Roger, you should know me well enough by now to know that I never 
> make
> > jokes.  Life is funny enough without people wantonly going out and
> > deliberately creating humor.
> 
> Indeed.  (It's somewhat easier to keep a straight face in type than 
> in person,
> in my experience; it's certainly easier to tell blatant lies in 
> print.)
> 
> > "Butterfly position" was what I (believe I) was taught long long 
> ago, and
> > is when partners stand chest to chest with their arms outstretched 
> to the
> > side, but joined.  As in Cumberland Square 8. (What do you call 
> it?)
> 
> Hmmm.  Are both arms outstretched?  It sounds like you're describing 
> 
> what you'd get if you took poussette position and stepped in until 
> you
> were very close.
> 
> I can see why you'd call that butterfly position, but it's not how 
> we do CS8
> out here, which tends to be more 'ballroom position'; leading arms
> outstretched, trailing arms around partner's waist or shoulder.  
> (Which,
> indeed, means changing grips when you change direction, while the 
> position you
> describe is direction-neutral.)
> 
> > And different from "banjo" position.
> 
> I saw this referred to, but not explained, in a 1930s dance manual, 
> and I 
> finally concluded, looking at the illustration, that your arms are
> approximately where they'd be if you were holding a banjo - left 
> hand at the 
> neck (the banjo's neck, not yours), right hand down the round part 
> (mutatis
> mutandis), left in left and right in right with partner.  Is this 
> correct?  (I
> guess the difference between that and the courtesy turn position in, 
> say,
> Margaret's Waltz, is that the right hand is behind the woman's back 
> in courtesy
> turn position, and it would be in front - and the partners closer 
> together - in
> banjo position.)
> 
> -- Alan
> 
>
=========================================================================
======
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  
> 650/926-3056
>  Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park 
> CA   94025
>
=========================================================================
======
> 

________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 17:55:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:51:49 -0500
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position?
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <200201102055_MC3-ED97-76A3-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Trev,
I agree with you on CS8. My senior citizens dance it often and like it.
What victory when they really trust themselves (and the set) in the basket!
The hold in Gay Gordons is usually called varsouvienne (in the manner of
the folks from Warsaw).
Butterfly - that's like holding hands as in a poussette and then stepping
towards each other - belly buttons smiling at each other.

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:46:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:11:04 +0000
From: Colin Hume <colin-AT-
colinhume.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Technique notes
To: ECD Mailing List <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E16OvSE-0006hv-00.2002-01-11-06-46-19-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Several people have written, either to the list or directly to me, saying they
would like to read my Dance Technique notes, so they are now available on my
web site - just click "Technique" on the top bar.  Please read the disclaimers
before you flame me.  I would welcome comments, suggestions and disagreements,
either to the list or direct to me as you see fit.

Colin Hume

PLEASE NOTE:
NEW email colin-AT-
colinhume.com  NEW web site http://www.colinhume.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:27:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 12:25:59 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Technique notes [2]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3F1217.A093CCBA-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <E16OvSE-0006hv-00.2002-01-11-06-46-19-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>

Hi, Colin:

> Several people have written, either to the list or directly to me, saying they
> would like to read my Dance Technique notes, so they are now available on my
> web site.

Just saying "thank you" does not do justice to your efforts
when allowing open access to your knowledge on your
web site.

I am MOST appreciative of your kindness and
assure you I shall endeavour to use your passed-on
experience to the best of my ability!

Sincere regards, John

Bedford, Nova Scotia
{EFDSS from 1964!]

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:40:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:47:25 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Technique notes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <009501c19abf$a5ac2d40$cb00a8c0-AT-
lorettapc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <E16OvSE-0006hv-00.2002-01-11-06-46-19-AT-
mail17.svr.pol.co.uk>

Thanks so much Colin!

I've just stolen some minutes out of my work day to look at your Dance
Technique Notes.  What a wealth of information and experience you are
sharing with us!  I'm looking forward to having time over the weekend to
read it all through.  I'm sure many of us will get lots of interesting
insights.  Plus it looks like there's lots of material there to cause
further discussion here.  Thanks again.



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:45:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 08:46:21 -0800
From: Kalia Kliban <kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wedding Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C3F16DD.83BCF798-AT-
sbcglobal.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <20020109.074052.-1908465.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Allison M Thompson wrote:
> It is always salubrious to the teacher when
> one says "back to back" and 2 people go and stand, literally, back to
> back.

Oh thank heaven it wasn't just me that that happened to!  It
was my first experience calling (at a party), and at that
point I was about ready to flee.  
-- 
Kalia Kliban
kalia-AT-
sbcglobal.net  <--- Note new email address!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:35:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:59:45 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: banjo position
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020111.133620.-1949423.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Victoria wrote....
 
To get into banjo position take ballroom hold, then shift sideways to the
left and step toward your partner 
so that right hips are adjacent. The left arm will be almost straight,
the right arm curved as though playing a banjo.



Yes, this is what I called the banjo position in the one dance I have it
for.  The Gent's left arm could either be out straight (as in the Yale
walk variation of the one-step), or ,as Victoria describes, at the Lady's
waist, with her arm on his shoulder and sort of her R cheek to his L.

So you walk down the set & then you whip around & come back, L hip to L
hip..... I think

Allison
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Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:36:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:52:38 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Butterfly Position?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020111115238.007be100-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.20020110094518.007a4660-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>

I wrote:
>> But I'm ready to be corrected.

because I've been out of England so long, I often discover that I have
misremembered things, so i'm glad  to see Trevor dcoes things the way I do!
( CS8 i in "normal" ballroom hold , both across and back.
And butterfly hold as in the Gay Gordons)

France is such a long way from GB when you are teaching/calling and
suddenly have doubts about a dance or a figure.


Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:09:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:09:12 -0800
From: Laurie Buchanan <laurieb-AT-
cirl.uoregon.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04320403b86500d73862-AT-
[128.223.40.51]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <00A07DF6.0F6A4D97.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

Andy wrote:

>Something I learned about hypothermia ... A body is actually
>heated more quickly by slow warming.

Well, let's see how far off topic I can take this.  This reminds me 
that the opposite is true too.  When you have a burn, the "old 
wisdom" was to put ice on it, or cold water.  Then, when I received a 
severe burn while cooking at Pinewoods (aahhh, they sigh, ECD 
content...), I learned all about the "bounce back effect".  When you 
cool the burned area too rapidly, then remove the source of cooling, 
the tissue heats up more than it would have if the cooling had been 
more gradual, so it takes longer to come back to a less painful temp. 
I knew y'all would want this in your first aid memory kit:  Use 
lukewarm water instead of ice to ease the pain of a minor burn.

Laurie in Eugene
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:17:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:17:08 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b86506714c32-AT-
[140.186.55.44]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <00A07DF6.0F6A4D97.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu> <p04320403b86500d73862-AT-
[128.223.40.51]>

>Use lukewarm water instead of ice to ease the pain of a minor burn.


Yeah, but use it for a long time.  Serious burns need to be cooled 
down by tepid water until they stop being hot at all in your skin.


-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:20:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:15:45 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001c01c19ae5$23006020$22294b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <00A07DF6.0F6A4D97.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu> <p04320403b86500d73862-AT-
[128.223.40.51]>


----- Original Message -----
From: Laurie Buchanan <laurieb-AT-
cirl.uoregon.edu>

<<Well, let's see how far off topic I can take this.  This reminds me
that the opposite is true too.  When you have a burn, the "old
wisdom" was to put ice on it, or cold water.  Then, when I received a
severe burn while cooking at Pinewoods (aahhh, they sigh, ECD
content...), I learned all about the "bounce back effect".  When you
cool the burned area too rapidly, then remove the source of cooling,
the tissue heats up more than it would have if the cooling had been
more gradual, so it takes longer to come back to a less painful temp.
I knew y'all would want this in your first aid memory kit:  Use
lukewarm water instead of ice to ease the pain of a minor burn.<<

Interesting. I've used a combination of ice and the juice from an aloe leaf,
which has worked better for me than either remedy by itself. A bit of Juice
of Barley helps deaden the pain, too. (See, I knew we could get back on
topic.)

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:30:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 16:30:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renaissance siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201111619360.19725-100000-AT-
mayhem.kiva.net>
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On Thu, 10 Jan 2002, Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore wrote:

> Not quite. The figure, as I was taught in a renaissance class, possibly
> at Amherst Early Music week but it could have been elsewhere, goes like
> this:
>     Partners move in circular arcs as though to pass shoulders, then
> pivot 180 degrees on the outside foot to present contrary shoulders,
> shoulder-to-shoulder. Very flirtatious and quite dramatic if done well.
> As best I recall, the figure is completed by castiing away to places.

Now I am really curious.  Whether pivoting on the outside foot or the 
inside foot, this doesn't resemble anything I've encountered in 
renaissance dance. (Not that I've seen all there is to be seen!) Can you 
remember the name of any dance that you did this figure in? Or who you 
took the class from? I'd love to find out more about it.

--Mary Railing 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:33:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:33:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020111233307.1507.qmail-AT-
web20001.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> A bit of Juice of Barley helps deaden the pain, too. (See, I
> knew we could get back on topic.)

All circles must close eventually, no matter how circuitous they
may seem.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:36:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:36:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020111233629.91861.qmail-AT-
web20006.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> --- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com> wrote:
> > A bit of Juice of Barley helps deaden the pain, too. (See, I
> > knew we could get back on topic.)
> 
--- Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> All circles must close eventually, no matter how circuitous
> they may seem.

Except that this one didn't _start_ on topic so I'll take it
back to the beginning by saying thatI've been fighting a cold
for two days.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:55:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:55:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20020111235517.85980.qmail-AT-
web20002.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> wrote:
> i've been told that whispering is actually harder on the vocal
> cords than speaking with whatever croak you can muster.  can
> anyone corroborate this?

I don't know about that, but I once played St. George in a stage
whisper because I'd lost my voice on the way to Baltimore to do
a Mummer's play at the ECD. This was in the early 70's when I
still lived in Maryland.

> breathing steam from a pot of hot water with a towel over
> one's head can loosen congestion. 

A warm shower helps, too. I think that the combination of
breathing the steam and having warm water running over your neck
and chest is especially good. 

When we were kids, our mother used to have us play under the
dining room table with a pot of steaming water on a hot plate.
She'd put a blanket over the table to keep the steam in. 

> --susie lorand 
> who's glad that her fiddle can still speak, and resolves to
> try H2O2 and/or vinegar at the first sign of a sore throat
> next time 

I didn't even feel my cold coming on until I woke up with it on
Wednesday morning. Sometimes I seem to have super-sensitive
smell a couple of days before a cold hits.

Andy
--- pumping myself full of extra doses of Vitamin C.

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Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:46:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 12:47:09 -0500
From: Albert Blank and Nancy DeVore <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renaissance siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3C40769D.30FABDDB-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0201111619360.19725-100000-AT-
mayhem.kiva.net>

Mary Railing wrote (in part):

"Whether pivoting on the outside foot or the
inside foot, this doesn't resemble anything I've encountered in
renaissance dance. (Not that I've seen all there is to be seen!) Can you

remember the name of any dance that you did this figure in? Or who you
took the class from?"

That referred to an earlier post concerning an Italian renaissance
figure:

Albert wrote (in part):

>     Partners move in circular arcs as though to pass shoulders, then
> pivot 180 degrees on the outside (ed. should have been, 'inside') foot

> to present contrary shoulders,
> shoulder-to-shoulder. Very flirtatious and quite dramatic if done
well.
> As best I recall, the figure is completed by castiing away to places.

Curious that you should ask. Last night a brought up the question with
some ECD friends.
Suzanne F. who contributes to this list said the figure is now being
used by several
modern ECD choreographers and gave it a name which have fled my
consciousness in
the morning light.  Maybe Suzanne, who follows this list, will kindly
supply same.
I'm not sure who taught me the movement in the first instance. It would
not be kind to finger
one of my instructors when my memory is so uncertain.

Albert

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 10:56:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:00:59 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance in May
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020112110059.007b4100-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


If you happen to be within reach of southeastern France in May -- and were
too late to get to Dartington -- come dancing in Grenoble.

The local dancers will be welcoming a group of dancers and musicians from
England.
There will be workshops/social dancing each day and an outing or two to get
a glimpse of the Alps that surround us.

The events will be led by Dick Little and Ken Sheffield (no relation, mere
coincidence), well-known in dancing circles for their teaching, research
and reinterpetation of the English tradition.

Susan and Peter Swann will provide the music to lighten your feet.

No stately homes, no fancy fees, just a friendly get-together of
like-minded dancers.
(Brush up your French, before you come !)

Program oulined on:
 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/may-eng.htm

further information from myself:
martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr

We hope the water pipes will have thawed by May !

Martin, in frozen Grenoble.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 14:34:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:30:42 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Burn remedies. Was: Gargling a winter cold away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <151.727ff31.29721312-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 1/11/02 4:22:40 PM, pstamler-AT-
pobox.com writes:

<< Interesting. I've used a combination of ice and the juice from an aloe 
leaf,

which has worked better for me than either remedy by itself.  >>

For a small medium-severe burn, the cut side of a RAW ONION works wonders as 
well. (Chances are good there'll be one hanging around the kitchen.) I've 
often thought it must contain the same healing ingredient that's in onion 
juice.

Judy, who, many times when her sons were young, averted catastrophe by 
applying an oozing onion at the right moment. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:39:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:39:17 -0500
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for Valentine's Weekend , Feb 15-17, 2002
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com
Message-ID: <20020112.193926.-1711971.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_b7tkm5fGcmsN+d3c6w8NOQ)"

This message is in MIME format.  Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--Boundary_(ID_b7tkm5fGcmsN+d3c6w8NOQ)
Content-type: text/plain
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Dear Friends,

Bare Necessities and Becky Hill will be in Pittsburgh PA (USA)  for an
English/contra weekend, February 15-17, 2002.  Becky will call the contra
on Friday night to the incomparable music of Peter Barnes and Mary Lea. 
On Sunday and Saturday there will be a variety of English Dance workshops
and dance parties (including a cakewalk!--perhaps the only one in the
country!) that will be led by Jacqueline Schwab, with music by the
exquisite Bare Necessities.

This is an event now in its (perhaps--we're losing count!) 14th year and
one which has become a well-beloved institution here in the Mid-West. 
Please join us.  The attached acrobat.pdf file incorporates the full
flier--for more information, or for housing, registration, maps or
questions, please contact Ralph Bangs at:

rbangs-AT-
pitt.edu

or call

Ralph  or Allison (412) 422-7265

We hope to see you there!

Regards

Allison Thompson and Ralph Bangs

--Boundary_(ID_b7tkm5fGcmsN+d3c6w8NOQ)
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