Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 07:48:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 10:48:34 -0400
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: copyright and fair use discussion
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F128NwRC6HixqD00005af6-AT-
hotmail.com>
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One response to the E.Arnold/ J. Berger (chiefly) exchange might be 
summarized, "let's not talk about this, people get too upset." (I hope that 
is more or less accurate).

I would disagree. I have found it very informative -- and I think that 
people in the ECD community (and related communities) should be better 
informed on this and related topics: copyright, fair use, etc. As a 
librarian, moreover one whose days are increasingly caught up in licensing 
issues, I'd agree that it's a highly complex and often misunderstood area, 
which moreover is changing rapidly and won't get settled any time soon.

One way in which it impacts us is, of course, the issue of "collecting" 
others' work. The dance community has had a history of individuals, or 
groups, adopting others' creative work -- on the grounds that it's all the 
anonymous folk process, I suppose. (See Boyes, "Imagined Village," for some 
of this.) The Real McPlayford is perhaps in the public domain by now, but 
certainly a lot of individuals are out there composing and performing new 
music, dances, etc., and deserve acknowledgement and credit. (I'd like to 
see use of the word "collected" banned in application to dances/ music/ 
etc., but I understand others disagree.)

A final thought: I see nothing wrong in people disagreeing publicly. I think 
it's more productive to argue than sulk.

Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 08:32:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 11:28:24 -0400
From: Country Dance and Song Society <office-AT-
cdss.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NEW DANCE PROGRAM FOR 2001
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.2.1.20010601112731.00a2cf00-AT-
crocker.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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Dear Friends,

Announcing a Special English Country Dance Session at Pinewoods at Folk
Music Week!

CDSS has a unique opportunity this summer. In large part because of its
position at the end of the summer this year, we have an unusually high
number of spaces still available at Folk Music Week. Similarly, due in part
to the move from those same dates, English Dance and English & American
Dance Weeks have painfully long waiting lists. The circumstances give us the
opportunity to join these two communities by adding a strong English Country
Dance program to the existing Folk Music Week. It is our hope that country
dancers will be introduced to folk song in a new way and that folk singers
and musicians will be delighted by these wonderful dances.

Please see the description page at
http://www.cdss.org/programs/2001/ed-at-fm.html

or call, write or email for more information.

We hope you will come explore this opportunity with us this summer!

Steve Howe
Program Coordinator
Country Dance and Song Society
camp-AT-
cdss.org
413-268-7426 ex3

Country Dance and Song Society
PO Box 338/132 Main St, Haydenville, MA 01039-0338
Phone: 413-268-7426	Fax:413-268-7471	http://www.cdss.org
office-AT-
cdss.org		sales-AT-
cdss.org		camp-AT-
cdss.org

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 12:48:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 12:47:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: copyright and fair use discussion
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010601194751.25171.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> One way in which it impacts us is, of course, the issue of
> "collecting" others' work. The dance community has had a
> history of individuals, or groups, adopting others' creative
> work -- on the grounds that it's all the anonymous folk
> process, I suppose. (See Boyes, "Imagined Village," for some
> of this.) The Real McPlayford is perhaps in the public domain
> by now, but certainly a lot of individuals are out there
> composing and performing new music, dances, etc., and deserve
> acknowledgement and credit. (I'd like to see use of the word
> "collected" banned in application to dances/ music/ etc., but
I
> understand others disagree.)
> 
The question of "collecting" is very prevalent among Contras,
where a caller likes a dance called by someone else and writes
it out in a notebook or on a card. Often they try to talk to the
caller later and learn more about the dance, but not always. The
original choreographer often gets lost after this goes through
several generations. For better or worse, even the original
figures get changed over time. It is incumbent upon a caller to
credit the dance to the mastermind behind it, if known, but the
person they got it from may not know the originator. So does
this mean that the collector shouldn't use the dance if they
can't give proper credit for it?? My feeling is that if I write
a dance, I would rather people dance it and enjoy it without me
getting credit, rather than keeping it under lock and key and
only allowing those whom I know will give me credit for its use.

> A final thought: I see nothing wrong in people disagreeing
> publicly. I think it's more productive to argue than sulk.
> 
Isn't that part of the purpose of this group, to bring things
out in the open and (sometimes) disagree with each other?

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:08:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 19:08:21 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Message Re Explanation of Copyright
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B181255.6AF24BC9-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
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Hi Folks:

I do apologize for intruding, but found the explanation
about copyright greatly helpful.

But, unfortunately, in making every endeavour to preserve
that and other following messages about copyright , I fouled up.
Not only did I lose completely the explanation but the
follow-ups to it as well.

I am not sure who it was from. It  would be much appreciated
if someone would be good enough to send privately a repeat
of that message. It would be of great assistance.

Sorry about that, but I must admit I am "fishing" at
the moment.

Regards, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia
 
 
 
 
 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:12:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Message Re Explanation of Copyright
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K499EDVTP88WVZD8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

John Wood wrote:

> I do apologize for intruding, but found the explanation
> about copyright greatly helpful.

> But, unfortunately, in making every endeavour to preserve
> that and other following messages about copyright , I fouled up.
> Not only did I lose completely the explanation but the
> follow-ups to it as well.

> I am not sure who it was from. It would be much appreciated
> if someone would be good enough to send privately a repeat
> of that message. It would be of great assistance.

If you have web access, you can get the discussion from the archives of 
the list.  Go to 

http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.htmlx  and follow the link
to the archives.  (You can either pick the monthly archive for May 2001 or
go for a subject line search and look for copyright.)

I post this to remind everybody that this is available.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:11:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:20:29 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: the ECD archive (was: Explanation of Copyright)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00b901c0eb2c$3ca664c0$70bcb0d0-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01K499EDVTP88WVZD8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan Winston writes, of the ECD list archive:
> I post this to remind everybody that this is available.

And I'll say something that I said here a long time ago but that bears
repeating:  the archive is fascinating.  When I first discovered the archive
I wasted hours -- maybe totalling days -- of my employer's time thinking up
things I was interested in and then doing searches in the archive for the
topics.  It was like my own personal online Encyclopedia of English Country
Dance.  It was also sometimes a bit like reading one of those collections of
Wacky Letters to the Times.  Much, much fun.

Marian Phillips

PS -- I hope it's being backed up somewhere.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 23:13:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Baker's Retreat
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4c.16282798.2849de03-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



In a message dated 5/31/01 7:00:51 AM, mjones010-AT-
earthlink.net writes:

>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:45:08 -0400
>From: Mary Jones <mjones010-AT-
earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: The Beau's Retreat
>Message-ID: <003c01c0e96a$f2145d80$b54e353f-AT-
cyir4>
>
>Hi Nilos!
>
>Looks like a fun dance, though I 've never danced or called it...a lot
>of
>someone following someone else.  Now for the perfect non sequitor:
>
>Will you be cooking at Pinewoods this summer?  Sure hope so  for all of
>us!!
>
>Mary (always looking for the Studmuffin set) Jones

Hi Mary!
Nope, not me.  (But I'll take the compliment.)  I'm just a lowly volunteer 
this year.  Jeremy "too young to be so effing talented" Morrison will be your 
Studmuffin du Cuisine at Pinewoods this summer.  

Be nice to him, ladies and gentlemen.  Praise him extravagantly.   Overlook 
any rough spots you might happen to encounter in his operation.  First summer 
as head cook is nerve-wracking enough without a bunch of people going on 
about how good it was *last* year.    

Swift reversion to topic:
I know it was customary for a Beau, after having run up vast debts at the 
gaming tables and in the pursuit of sartorial perfection, to flee his 
creditors and go live quietly in France somewhere.  Brummell did it, so it 
must have been The Thing....nor, apparently, did he lack company.  Do we have 
any way of knowing if that is the sort of retreat referred to?

Nilos, who will also not be making any tiny marzipan creditors or bailiffs 
any time in the near future.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 00:42:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 02:43:02 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Recipes
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01cc01c0eb37$ab8c4840$eeef520c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

website at 
http://www.recipezaar.com/help/copyright.zsp

has a discussion about copyright of recipes.

Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
phone: 713-522-1212
DANCE LOCATION:
Oddfellows Hall, 115 E. 14th St. (Heights), Houston, Texas 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 05:11:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2001 09:11:27 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: Message Re Explanation of Copyright [2]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B18D7EF.A45D61E2-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01K499EDVTP88WVZD8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Thank you, once again Alan.

> > I do apologize for intruding, but found the explanation
> > about copyright greatly helpful.
> If you have web access, you can get the discussion from the archives of
> the list.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:17:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:16:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Baltimore Playford Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9.166e8ba9.284c579b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Announcing: 
The 20th Annual Baltimore Folk Music Society Playford Ball, Saturday, 20 
October 2001.
Music by Bare Necessities, at The Church of the Redeemer in Baltimore. 

Program:  The Ashford Anniversary, Dick's Maggot, Dublin Bay, Barbarini's 
Tambourine, Elizabeth, The Fandango, Hambleton's Round O, Hudson Barn, The 
Irish Lamentation, Jacob Hall's Jig, Jaque Latin, King of Poland, Lilli 
Burlero, Mad Robin, Newcastle, The Parson's Farewell, Scotch Cap, Smithy 
Hill, Up With Aily, Easter Morn
     
Dance review from 2:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. 
Reception at 7:00 p.m.
Dance: 7:30-11:15 p.m. 
There will be minimal prompting following brief talk-throughs
Admission: $26 Members (BFMS, FSGW, CDSS, & ATDS); $30 Non-Member
Register by September 20th and deduct $2

Info: 410-321-8419; or e-mail: playford-AT-
bfms.org
On-line registration flyer at www.bfms.org/events/playfordball.html

We hope to see many of you here in Baltimore October 20th!

Carl and Diane Friedman
Ball Co-chairs  
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:21:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:20:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Baltimore Playford Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a6.14d8fca9.284c5891-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Dear friends, we are delighted to announce: 

The 20th Annual Baltimore Folk Music Society Playford Ball, Saturday, 20 
October 2001.
Music by Bare Necessities, at The Church of the Redeemer in Baltimore. 

Program:  The Ashford Anniversary, Dick's Maggot, Dublin Bay, Barbarini's 
Tambourine, Elizabeth, The Fandango, Hambleton's Round O, Hudson Barn, The 
Irish Lamentation, Jacob Hall's Jig, Jaque Latin, King of Poland, Lilli 
Burlero, Mad Robin, Newcastle, The Parson's Farewell, Scotch Cap, Smithy 
Hill, Up With Aily, Easter Morn
     
Dance review from 2:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. 
Reception at 7:00 p.m.
Dance: 7:30-11:15 p.m. 
There will be minimal prompting following brief talk-throughs
Admission: $26 Members (BFMS, FSGW, CDSS, & ATDS); $30 Non-Member
Register by September 20th and deduct $2

Info: 410-321-8419; or e-mail: playford-AT-
bfms.org
On-line registration flyer at www.bfms.org/events/playfordball.html

We hope to see many of you here in Baltimore October 20th!

Carl and Diane Friedman
Ball Co-chairs  
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 20:30:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2001 23:29:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Baltimore Playford Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <10d.dfa92a.284c5ab4-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

Dear friends, we are delighted to announce: 

The 20th Annual Baltimore Folk Music Society Playford Ball, Saturday, 20 
October 2001.
Music by Bare Necessities, at The Church of the Redeemer in Baltimore. 

Program:  The Ashford Anniversary, Dick's Maggot, Dublin Bay, Barbarini's 
Tambourine, Elizabeth, The Fandango, Hambleton's Round O, Hudson Barn, The 
Irish Lamentation, Jacob Hall's Jig, Jaque Latin, King of Poland, Lilli 
Burlero, Mad Robin, Newcastle, The Parson's Farewell, Scotch Cap, Smithy 
Hill, Up With Aily, Easter Morn
     
Dance review from 2:30 p.m. to 4:30 p.m. 
Reception at 7:00 p.m.
Dance: 7:30-11:15 p.m. 
There will be minimal prompting following brief talk-throughs
Admission: $26 Members (BFMS, FSGW, CDSS, & ATDS); $30 Non-Member
Register by September 20th and deduct $2

Info: 410-321-8419; or e-mail: playford-AT-
bfms.org
On-line registration flyer at www.bfms.org/events/playfordball.html

We hope to see many of you here in Baltimore October 20th!

Carl and Diane Friedman
Ball Co-chairs  
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 07:07:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:09:36 -0400
From: Carolyn Worthing <worthing-AT-
mindspring.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <EKEBJNKEEFDMIIJBIHDHGEGGCFAA.worthing-AT-
mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Our group has used cassettes for many of our weekly dances and slowly are
adding CDs to our collection.
The CD player we have plugged into our sound system is a basic level discman
type and we are now wanting to upgrade.
Any equipment recommendations out there?

Carolyn Worthing
Chapel Hill, NC

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:46:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:46:28 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3B1BE594.C67B7757-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <EKEBJNKEEFDMIIJBIHDHGEGGCFAA.worthing-AT-
mindspring.com>

Dear Carol:
    It depends on what you want. The quality of sound you get will depend little
on the player you use. The question is what features do you want. Do you want to
put an evening program together from several CDs?  Many players can do a  very
satisfactory job of that. If portability is a major factor, there is nothing
wrong with what you have. Consumer Reports has reviewed players. You might start
there for ideas. Get in touch with me off-site if you want to go into
particulars that the list won't generally care about.

Ciao

Carolyn Worthing wrote (in part):

> The CD player we have plugged into our sound system is a basic level discman
> type and we are now wanting to upgrade.
> Any equipment recommendations out there?

Albert Blank

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 15:00:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:50:04 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330101b741ac2755f2-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <EKEBJNKEEFDMIIJBIHDHGEGGCFAA.worthing-AT-
mindspring.com>

At 10:09 AM -0400, on 6/4/01, Carolyn Worthing wrote:
>Our group has used cassettes for many of our weekly dances and slowly are
>adding CDs to our collection.
>The CD player we have plugged into our sound system is a basic level discman
>type and we are now wanting to upgrade.
>Any equipment recommendations out there?

Consider using a laptop or notebook computer.

Advantages:

* You can convert your tapes to computer sound files (e.g., MP3).

* You can play CDs on the computer's CD player and/or convert CD 
tracks to computer sound files.

* Using the right software, you can slow the music down (without 
changing the pitch). Or you can change the pitch without changing the 
speed of the music, in case you want to change the key or just make 
it a little bit flat or sharp (say, if someone wants to accompany the 
recording and their instrument is tuned a little flat or sharp).

* It's an excuse to buy that laptop computer you wanted anyway.

* Possiblly less stuff to lug around (no cassette player, no CD 
player, not necessarily any CDs).

* People will ooh and aah at your high-tech setup.

Disadvantages:

* People will think you're just trying to impress them with your 
high-tech setup.

* It's just an excuse to buy that computer you don't really need.

* More computer crap to buy.

* More computer crap to learn.


Just last Saturday I taught Ashford Anniversary to a group of new 
dancers. They understood the dance, but just couldn't react in time. 
So I slowed the CD down a little and they were able to do the dance.

Disclosure: I'm a computer junkie.



-- 
"Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies
Gary Shapiro <http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:21:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:51:12 -0500
From: Bill McDonald <McDjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001201c0ed48$dbdd1020$99ccfea9-AT-
Laptop>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_scCjO07w9gUDjJJ7b4ElLQ)"
References: <EKEBJNKEEFDMIIJBIHDHGEGGCFAA.worthing-AT-
mindspring.com> <p04330101b741ac2755f2-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_scCjO07w9gUDjJJ7b4ElLQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Gary,

You're right on (and I'm not particularly a computer junkie).  Using even a cheap(er) used laptop works, so long as you don't load it up (I use a 233 Dell that I bought on Ebay for < $500 and it works fine).

One other advantage embedded in your list of benefits:  Once the files are recorded (I include 5 seconds of silence as a lead-in and 15 seconds at the end to allow for starting and stopping) and saved on the hard drive, I can create an evening's dance card in only the time it takes to drag and drop them into the MP3 player.  The transitions during the dance are simple--no fumbling around with multiple tapes and/or CDs.  Each piece of music is perfectly cued and ready to go in the proper order. And, the playlist is printable so that you have a hard copy to post/distribute at the dance.  Additionally the playlist file is labeled and saved so that I have a record of the dances we used in a particular evening, which makes it easy to keep track of where we've been and what dances in our repertoire may be over or under used.

A bit more technical benefit (with the correct software you described) is the ability to create seamless loops, extending the length of recorded music to allow for specific needs.  This software essentially does for music what a word processor does for text--you can cut, paste, format, change or duplicate.  Example: I have lots of recorded music for 3Co sets that is only played thru on the original recording one time.  I have looped these dances so that I now have multiple passes through the music to allow for longer dance time.

Finally, let me strongly resonate with the ability to slow the dances down (you folks with live music have this as an inherent advantage).  My teaching experience has been exactly the same as yours.  Newbies often struggle not so much with the complexity of the steps in a given dance, but the speed with which they come.  The ability to slow down pre-recorded music by 20% gives them the time they need to become familiar with the dance, at which time full-speed can be resumed with a much higher satisfaction and success level.

McDjr

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gary D. Shapiro 
  To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
  Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 4:50 PM
  Subject: Re: CD players for sound system


  At 10:09 AM -0400, on 6/4/01, Carolyn Worthing wrote:
  >Our group has used cassettes for many of our weekly dances and slowly are
  >adding CDs to our collection.
  >The CD player we have plugged into our sound system is a basic level discman
  >type and we are now wanting to upgrade.
  >Any equipment recommendations out there?

  Consider using a laptop or notebook computer.

  Advantages:

  * You can convert your tapes to computer sound files (e.g., MP3).

  * You can play CDs on the computer's CD player and/or convert CD 
  tracks to computer sound files.

  * Using the right software, you can slow the music down (without 
  changing the pitch). Or you can change the pitch without changing the 
  speed of the music, in case you want to change the key or just make 
  it a little bit flat or sharp (say, if someone wants to accompany the 
  recording and their instrument is tuned a little flat or sharp).

  * It's an excuse to buy that laptop computer you wanted anyway.

  * Possiblly less stuff to lug around (no cassette player, no CD 
  player, not necessarily any CDs).

  * People will ooh and aah at your high-tech setup.

  Disadvantages:

  * People will think you're just trying to impress them with your 
  high-tech setup.

  * It's just an excuse to buy that computer you don't really need.

  * More computer crap to buy.

  * More computer crap to learn.


  Just last Saturday I taught Ashford Anniversary to a group of new 
  dancers. They understood the dance, but just couldn't react in time. 
  So I slowed the CD down a little and they were able to do the dance.

  Disclosure: I'm a computer junkie.



  -- 
  "Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies
  Gary Shapiro <http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/>

--Boundary_(ID_scCjO07w9gUDjJJ7b4ElLQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Gary,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">You're right on (and I'm not 
particularly a computer junkie).&nbsp; Using even a cheap(er) used laptop works, 
so long as you don't load it up (I use a 233 Dell that I bought on Ebay for &lt; 
$500&nbsp;and it works fine).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">One other advantage embedded in 
your list of benefits:&nbsp; Once the files are recorded (I include 5 seconds of 
silence as a lead-in and 15 seconds at the end to allow for starting and 
stopping) and saved on the hard drive, I can create an evening's dance card in 
only the time it takes to drag and drop them into the MP3 player.&nbsp; The 
transitions during the dance are simple--no fumbling around with multiple tapes 
and/or CDs.&nbsp; Each piece of music is perfectly cued and ready to go in the 
proper order.&nbsp;And, the playlist is printable so that you have a hard copy 
to post/distribute at the dance.&nbsp;&nbsp;Additionally the playlist file is 
labeled and saved so that I have a record of the dances we used in a particular 
evening, which makes it easy to keep track of where we've been and what dances 
in our repertoire may be over or under used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">A bit more technical benefit (with 
the correct software you described) is the ability to create seamless loops, 
extending the length of recorded music to allow for specific needs.&nbsp; This 
software essentially does for music what a word processor does for text--you can 
cut, paste, format, change or duplicate.&nbsp; Example: I have lots of recorded 
music for 3Co sets that is only played thru on the original recording one 
time.&nbsp; I have looped these dances so that I now have multiple passes 
through the music to allow for longer dance time.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Finally, let me strongly resonate 
with the ability to slow the dances down (you folks with live music have this as 
an inherent advantage).&nbsp; My teaching experience has been exactly the same 
as yours.&nbsp; Newbies often struggle not so much with the complexity of the 
steps in a given dance, but the speed with which they come.&nbsp; The ability to 
slow&nbsp;down pre-recorded music&nbsp;by 20% gives them the time they need to 
become familiar with the dance, at which time full-speed&nbsp;can be resumed 
with a much higher satisfaction and success level.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">McDjr</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A href="mailto:garyes-AT-
pobox.com" title=garyes-AT-
pobox.com>Gary D. Shapiro</A> 
  </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
  href="mailto:ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" 
  title=ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 04, 2001 4:50 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: CD players for sound 
  system</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>At 10:09 AM -0400, on 6/4/01, Carolyn Worthing 
  wrote:<BR>&gt;Our group has used cassettes for many of our weekly dances and 
  slowly are<BR>&gt;adding CDs to our collection.<BR>&gt;The CD player we have 
  plugged into our sound system is a basic level discman<BR>&gt;type and we are 
  now wanting to upgrade.<BR>&gt;Any equipment recommendations out 
  there?<BR><BR>Consider using a laptop or notebook 
  computer.<BR><BR>Advantages:<BR><BR>* You can convert your tapes to computer 
  sound files (e.g., MP3).<BR><BR>* You can play CDs on the computer's CD player 
  and/or convert CD <BR>tracks to computer sound files.<BR><BR>* Using the right 
  software, you can slow the music down (without <BR>changing the pitch). Or you 
  can change the pitch without changing the <BR>speed of the music, in case you 
  want to change the key or just make <BR>it a little bit flat or sharp (say, if 
  someone wants to accompany the <BR>recording and their instrument is tuned a 
  little flat or sharp).<BR><BR>* It's an excuse to buy that laptop computer you 
  wanted anyway.<BR><BR>* Possiblly less stuff to lug around (no cassette 
  player, no CD <BR>player, not necessarily any CDs).<BR><BR>* People will ooh 
  and aah at your high-tech setup.<BR><BR>Disadvantages:<BR><BR>* People will 
  think you're just trying to impress them with your <BR>high-tech 
  setup.<BR><BR>* It's just an excuse to buy that computer you don't really 
  need.<BR><BR>* More computer crap to buy.<BR><BR>* More computer crap to 
  learn.<BR><BR><BR>Just last Saturday I taught Ashford Anniversary to a group 
  of new <BR>dancers. They understood the dance, but just couldn't react in 
  time. <BR>So I slowed the CD down a little and they were able to do the 
  dance.<BR><BR>Disclosure: I'm a computer junkie.<BR><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>"Come 
  dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies<BR>Gary Shapiro &lt;<A 
  href="http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/">http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/</A>&gt;</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_scCjO07w9gUDjJJ7b4ElLQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:58:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:37:15 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: copyright and fair use discussion
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010604.205646.-1868247.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Ok--I'm sorry, I was off-list for a while during the discussion of this
topic, but I think this is still helpful/interesting:

On 6/1, Andrew wrote  "The question of "collecting" is very prevalent
among Contras,
where a caller likes a dance called by someone else and writes
it out in a notebook or on a card. "

The last time that the Late Great Ted Sanella came to Pittsburgh, he was
painstakingly careful to announce the name and the writer of every dance
AND he said several times during the course of the dance that if anyone
was out there "notating" this dance, he would like that person to come up
& copy his card with the correct information AND NOT ONLY THAT, but as I
was out there shyly writing down a notation at the break and not doing
what he asked, he actually came up to me (and recognized me from long
ago, but  that's not really relevant) and invited/insisted that I copy
down the dance FROM HIS CARD and with all the correct author/title info,
etc.  This was both gratifying/flattering/humbling but also clearly meant
that he was interested in making sure that the recipient of the "oral"
information really knew whence it came.  Many callers of English dances
similarly will say that dance X comes from publication Y, but not,
perhaps, with such insistence on the correct degree of recognition (and,
incidentally, stressing that the recipient purchase the book from which
the quoted material comes from).  Anyway, I thought his example was a
very gentlemanly and fair way of handling the oral transmission of
printed material.

Allison
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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 17:59:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:21:02 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyright? (oh no no no not again!)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010604.205646.-1868247.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jon recently wrote ...

For example, there's a wonderful novel called "Ahab's Wife," by Sena
Jeter
Naslund, that's derived from "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville.  "Moby Dick"
is in the public domain, but "Ahab's Wife" is subject to copyright; if it
weren't, nobody would publish it and nobody would get to read it and that
would be a Bad Thing.  


Oh, dear, I'm sorrry to reintroduce this topic:  I was off-line for a
week due to a horrible computer virus that required a complete lobotomy,
but I now note Jon's comment above, and then wonder if the recent
publicity surrounding the "continuation" or the "re-telling" of the "Gone
with the Wind" saga from the African-American POV (the novel in question
was suspended pre-publication due to flack from M. Mitchell's estate and
has now, I believe, been permitted) changes his mind any.

I have for many years been a member of a Jane Austen Society--her puny 6
novels have now had the distinction of having approx. **70 **
re-tellings, either from different POVs, or as continuations (as when the
children of some protagonists of one novel encounter those of another,
ec.) and I have to say that I think the issue of copyright tends to be
more of an issue when/if there is a is a 1) living heir or 2) an active
estate, jealously (and appropriately, according to the estate interests)
guarding the interests of the testator.   And just today I see that they
are going to produce more "Narnia" books without a) Mr. Lewis' consent or
b) the Christian content that is so integral to those works whether you
like it or not.  Pretty soon we'll have a continuation of the Lord of the
Rings and then civilization will be in the trashcan! 

But, since I was off-line for so long and the topic had already died
down, I only wish to comment on this issue, not really to re-introduce
it. Anyone who really wants to discuss it should probably contact me
directly, rather than the list.

Allison Thompson


http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress
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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:04:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 21:04:26 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Copyright?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100301b741e06efd80-AT-
[140.186.54.5]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20010604.205646.-1868247.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

Civilization's already in the trashcan.

Living heir?  What about living creator?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:17:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:17:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rwinslowdance-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At international folk dancing in St. Louis in the 1960’s, we did two English 
dances, Hole in the Wall and Picking Up Sticks.  I’ve since learned that this 
is the standard repertoire for some other international groups.  These dances 
did not move me to search for the nearest English dance community and I had 
to wait another 12 years to discover ECD.
 
Which 3 dances would you suggest to help international dancers fall in love 
with ECD?  Think instant excitement and intoxication.  Yummy music, 
preferably available on a current recording.  Easy for someone with little or 
no ECD experience to teach from written instructions to a group with some 
dance experience.  
 
My first thought -Take a dance. 
Not too many places to get lost.  Dancers always mirror their partner.  High 
energy recording by Bare Necessities.

Rachel-  now in Philadelphia




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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>At international folk dancing in St. Louis in the 1960’s, we did two English 
<BR>dances, Hole in the Wall and Picking Up Sticks.  I’ve since learned that this 
<BR>is the standard repertoire for some other international groups.  These dances 
<BR>did not move me to search for the nearest English dance community and I had 
<BR>to wait another 12 years to discover ECD.
<BR> 
<BR>Which 3 dances would you suggest to help international dancers fall in love 
<BR>with ECD?  Think instant excitement and intoxication.  Yummy music, 
<BR>preferably available on a current recording.  Easy for someone with little or 
<BR>no ECD experience to teach from written instructions to a group with some 
<BR>dance experience.  
<BR> 
<BR>My first thought -Take a dance. 
<BR>Not too many places to get lost.  Dancers always mirror their partner.  High 
<BR>energy recording by Bare Necessities.
<BR>
<BR>Rachel- &nbsp;now in Philadelphia
<BR>
<BR>
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_dxWE76rNwEdi86+yzTIzHQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:28:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:28:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rwinslowdance-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <60.f4bd981.284d9db0-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Re: CD players
Do any of them have speed control?
Peter Ogle

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Re: CD players
<BR>Do any of them have speed control?
<BR>Peter Ogle</FONT></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_iBN6zpNEH7zmVTo17JkvJw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 20:30:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:30:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NY Playford Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0106042328390.6016-100000-AT-
panix6.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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   I have video captures from the New York ball available at
http://www.ecben.net/ball2001.shtml

    Since Westhost will not let me use RealMedia files, I resorted to AVI
with "MPEG-4 compression" to get them to reasonable size. When I try
accessing them myself, it just pops up Windoze Media Player to handle
them.


Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:28:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 05:28:40 +0000
From: peter groblicki <pgroblic-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <F1774A2DreBBsQwY6YH00001d24-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Recently I inquired about cassette and CD players with variable speed on 
both rec.folk-dancing and the contra sound forum.  Most replies encouraged 
the conversion to mini-disk or MP3.  The possibility of programming a 
multi-disk CD changer with a evening's program was also mentioned.

www.supremeaudio.com offers a large selection of variable speed cassette and 
CD players.

Converting the music to mini-disk or mp3 would not work out in my situation. 
  I have found a player whose specifications seem ideal for my application.  
It is a variable speed cassette / CD "boom box" made by Califone.  It has a 
built-in 10 watt amp and speakers, as well as line outputs for connection to 
a PA system.  It's reasonably priced at around $200.  It's a model 2455AV 
and more info is at www.califone.com/2400av.pdf.

Has anyone used one of these?  Do you have any info on reliability and 
convenience of operation?

Thanks -- Pete

>Re: CD players
>Do any of them have speed control?
>Peter Ogle

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 22:54:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:50:23 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <005d01c0ed83$6a9014e0$324e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: <60.f4bd981.284d9db0-AT-
aol.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Rwinslowdance-AT-
aol.com>

<<Re: CD players
Do any of them have speed control?
Peter Ogle>>

Usually only pro-audio type players, designed for radio stations, DJs, etc..
Tascam, Sony, and Denon all make such. Numark probably does too.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 23:00:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:56:01 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <008f01c0ed84$33b46420$324e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: <Rwinslowdance-AT-
aol.com>

<<At international folk dancing in St. Louis in the 1960â?Ts, we did two
English
dances, Hole in the Wall and Picking Up Sticks. Iâ?Tve since learned that
this
is the standard repertoire for some other international groups. These
dances
did not move me to search for the nearest English dance community and I had
to wait another 12 years to discover ECD.

Which 3 dances would you suggest to help international dancers fall in love
with ECD? Think instant excitement and intoxication. Yummy music,
preferably available on a current recording. Easy for someone with little
or
no ECD experience to teach from written instructions to a group with some
dance experience. >>

Hi Rachel:

I think Mount Hills is another good candidate...great tune, wonderful
recording available (from Pyewackett, on their classic "7 to Midnight" tape,
sold by CDSS still I think) and eminently danceable. If you have a live
band, even better, as it affords endless opportunities for musical
improvisation.

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:26:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:23:44 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330100b74230a319c2-AT-
[192.168.0.2]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <60.f4bd981.284d9db0-AT-
aol.com> <005d01c0ed83$6a9014e0$324e4b0c-AT-
paulstam>

Keep in mind when looking at variable-speed tape and CD players that 
many/most do not jump through the hoops required to keep the pitch 
the same. So if you slow the music down by 10%, a 440 ("American 
Standard" middle A) becomes 396 (close to G). Many of these players 
are in fact advertised as having "variable pitch."

Not that playing something at a different pitch is necessarily a 
problem. Perhaps I only think it's a problem to rationalize buying 
the variable speed/variable pitch software, when free variable pitch 
software is available.
--
Gary "oops, better send in my Mendocino balance" Shapiro
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 01:02:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 00:57:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K4E0W2SOR08X7WSG-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com>

Paul wrote:

> I think Mount Hills is another good candidate...great tune, wonderful
> recording available (from Pyewackett, on their classic "7 to Midnight" tape,
> sold by CDSS still I think) and eminently danceable. If you have a live
> band, even better, as it affords endless opportunities for musical
> improvisation.

I don't think CDSS carries "7 to Midnight" these days (but am not right now
in a position to fire up my web browser and find out).

Also, opinions vary on "Mount Hills."  Some really excellent musicians have
let me know that they don't like the tune much and don't feel they can do that
much with it.  (Piano and fiddle, if it matters.)  Me, I like it because it's
easy to pick out convincingly on recorder, but I'm such a marginal musician
that I not only don't mind if it sounds the same twice in a row, I'm actually
surprised and pleased.

Good dance, though.  

In the same vein of of easy teach, good tune, satisfying even without perfect
execution and distinctly different from non-ECD, I'd recommend "The
Accomplished Maid."  Don't know if that's recorded anywhere, but I think most
of the Fallibroome tunes have been covered.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:01:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:04:56 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B1CAE45.2D4E-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com> <01K4E0W2SOR08X7WSG-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan,

I would be interested to know where "most of the Fallibroome tunes have
been covered"? As far as I am aware "The Beau's Retreat" and "Wild Thyme
plays Fallibroome", available as a double cassette "The Wild Thyme
Fallibroome Collection", are the only recordings of Fallibroome. A few
of the tunes, about 15, are recorded elsewhere, notably Marshall Barron
et al on "Step Stately".

These then cover about 41 of over 100 dances in the Fallibroome
collection!!

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:23:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 03:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K4E5SM4PZI8X7ZMS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com> <01K4E0W2SOR08X7WSG-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Graham wrote:


> I would be interested to know where "most of the Fallibroome tunes have
> been covered"? As far as I am aware "The Beau's Retreat" and "Wild Thyme
> plays Fallibroome", available as a double cassette "The Wild Thyme
> Fallibroome Collection", are the only recordings of Fallibroome. A few
> of the tunes, about 15, are recorded elsewhere, notably Marshall Barron
> et al on "Step Stately".

> These then cover about 41 of over 100 dances in the Fallibroome
> collection!!

I clearly wrote without knowing what I was talking about.  I think I saw
listings of the Wild Thyme stuff and thought they were four different 
cassettes and more inclusive  than they evidently are.  I haven't heard them.

(Do they cover "The Accomplished Maid"?)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 06:03:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:07:42 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B1CD99E.5ECE-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com> <01K4E0W2SOR08X7WSG-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <01K4E5SM4PZI8X7ZMS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan,

No, "The Accomplished Maid" is not covered.

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:51:29 PST
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 08:51:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyright? (oh no no no not again!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106050711290.28767-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
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On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Allison M Thompson wrote:

> Jon recently wrote ...
> 
> For example, there's a wonderful novel called "Ahab's Wife," by Sena
> Jeter
> Naslund, that's derived from "Moby Dick" by Herman Melville.  "Moby Dick"
> is in the public domain, but "Ahab's Wife" is subject to copyright; if it
> weren't, nobody would publish it and nobody would get to read it and that
> would be a Bad Thing.  
> 
> 
> Oh, dear, I'm sorrry to reintroduce this topic:  I was off-line for a
> week due to a horrible computer virus that required a complete lobotomy,
> but I now note Jon's comment above, and then wonder if the recent
> publicity surrounding the "continuation" or the "re-telling" of the "Gone
> with the Wind" saga from the African-American POV (the novel in question
> was suspended pre-publication due to flack from M. Mitchell's estate and
> has now, I believe, been permitted) changes his mind any.

I haven't changed my mind about whether it would be a Bad Thing if "Ahab's
Wife" had never been published, if that's what you're asking.  I'm very
glad it was published, because I think it's a good book that deserved to be
published.  I'm also inclined to believe that "The Wind Done Gone" should
be published, although for different reasons: it's because, based on what
I've read, I agree with the Court of Appeals finding that it makes
legitimate fair use of the material from "Gone With the Wind."  However, I
may change my mind about that after I read the book.

> I have for many years been a member of a Jane Austen Society--her puny 6
> novels have now had the distinction of having approx. **70 **
> re-tellings, either from different POVs, or as continuations (as when the
> children of some protagonists of one novel encounter those of another,
> ec.) and I have to say that I think the issue of copyright tends to be
> more of an issue when/if there is a is a 1) living heir or 2) an active
> estate, jealously (and appropriately, according to the estate interests)
> guarding the interests of the testator.   And just today I see that they
> are going to produce more "Narnia" books without a) Mr. Lewis' consent or
> b) the Christian content that is so integral to those works whether you
> like it or not.  Pretty soon we'll have a continuation of the Lord of the
> Rings and then civilization will be in the trashcan! 

The real distinction is between works that are in the public domain and
works that aren't; it has nothing to do with the activity of the estate or
the livingness of the heir.  Copyrights aren't permanent; they last for a
very specific period of time.  The basic rule under the Copyright Act of
1976 (as amended) is that copyrights expire 70 years after the author's
death, but there are some exceptions to this, and there are some
appallingly arcane rules for computing the duration of copyrights in works
published before the 1976 Act went into effect -- which, just to further
complicate matters, was in 1978.  But the basic deal is that the author's
exclusive rights are only protected by the copyright laws for a limited
time.  After the copyright expires, the work is in the public domain, which
means that anyone who wants to can copy it, perform it, create derivative
works based on it, and so forth.  This is why, for example, Leonard
Bernstein and Steven Sondheim could produce "West Side Story" without
permission from the Shakespeare estate.  Whether that's how things should
be or not is another matter, but that's how things are.

> But, since I was off-line for so long and the topic had already died
> down, I only wish to comment on this issue, not really to re-introduce
> it. Anyone who really wants to discuss it should probably contact me
> directly, rather than the list.

You put me in a somewhat awkward position here.  I'll be happy to answer
any questions by private email that I'm asked by private email, and indeed
I'm involved in several such private discussions that have spun off from
this public one.  But I don't think it's entirely fair to ask me a question
in public and then specify that I have to answer it in private.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:38:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:38:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyright?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106050936380.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 4 Jun 2001, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> Civilization's already in the trashcan.
> 
> Living heir?  What about living creator?

My father, who has had the dubious distinction of living long enough to see
some of his early works become public domain, would agree with you
wholeheartedly.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:48:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 12:48:17 -0400
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: copy rights and wrongs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
BCC: 
Message-ID: <LAW2-F118c3JPv4ucOK00009ac4-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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As long as the topic of copyrights and such is being discussed: does anyone 
see a difficulty with the coincident discussion of using recorded music for 
public (i.e., dance) events? For example, assuming that the original 
recordings were purchased in some routine way for personal enjoyment: should 
they then be re-used for public events?

Let us take a hypothetical dance band called Armadillos as an example. They 
perform at the Frostbite Falls annual Playford ball, and sell a copy of 
their smash hit cd to a tech savvy member of the local Frozen Wastes 
Playford Society. Who then splices (well, whatever) her favorite tracks, 
along with some other favorites (let's say, tracks from the smash hit 
recordings of the unlamented NYC group, the Earthworms) into a master cd for 
use at their weekly dances etc. Permission to do this has neither been asked 
for nor granted, explicitly nor implicitly. The cd doesn't have printed on 
it, "use me as you will."

Is this a practice that people propose to employ? Or are people using 
recordings acquired with the specific understanding of the performers/ 
publishers that they will be used for public events?

I admit I find it troubling, and not only because my wife is a professional 
musician. (Though for the record she doesn't play country/ contra etc. She 
has played the drum for sword dances, but without compensation beyond thanks 
of a grateful husband.)

Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:03:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyright? (oh no no no not again!)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010605170314.69540.qmail-AT-
web13609.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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--- Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net> wrote:

>  ... author's  exclusive rights are only protected by the copyright
> laws for a limited time.  After the copyright expires, the work is
> in the public domain, which
> means that anyone who wants to can copy it, perform it, create
> derivative
> works based on it, and so forth.  This is why, for example, Leonard
> Bernstein and Steven Sondheim could produce "West Side Story"
> without
> permission from the Shakespeare estate.  Whether that's how things
> should be or not is another matter, but that's how things are.

So creative work, like living progeny, is only under the exclusive
control of the author for a limited time.  Once a creation is sent
out into the world, the world, willy-nilly the author's desire, will
have an effect on it.

Or, as W.H. Auden put it: "The words of a dead man/ Are modified in
the guts of the living."

=====
Don't blame me, I voted with the majority.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:26:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:25:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106051119150.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> Also, opinions vary on "Mount Hills."  Some really excellent musicians have
> let me know that they don't like the tune much and don't feel they can do that
> much with it.

I'm surprised to hear that.  I think it's a great tune and I wish the dance
were done more often.  The only time I ever get to play it is when I'm
playing for one of the Renaissance Faire groups that does a different
dance, "Uffington Horse," to the tune, and it's not as much fun to play at
the speed they like to dance it.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:38:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: copy rights and wrongs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106051039260.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Stephen D. Corrsin wrote:

> As long as the topic of copyrights and such is being discussed: does anyone 
> see a difficulty with the coincident discussion of using recorded music for 
> public (i.e., dance) events? For example, assuming that the original 
> recordings were purchased in some routine way for personal enjoyment: should 
> they then be re-used for public events?

Recordings protected by copyright laws (which is usually indicated by the
circle-P symbol) may be legally played in public if and only if the person
or organization playing them has purchased a license to do so from one of
the licensing organizations, ASCAP (the American Society of Composers,
Authors, and Publishers) or BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc., although ASCAP
diehards claim it really stands for Bad Music Instead).  The idea is that
the copyright holders join one of the licensing organizations, and the
organizations then collect the license fees and split them up among their
members.  The formula by which they calculate which member gets how much is
quite complicated, and tends to be very closely tied in with how much radio
air play a given piece has gotten; this is a bit unfair to people who write
the sort of music that doesn't get played on the radio very much, but it's
how the system works.

For a very thorough treatment of the subject of performance licensing, I
recommend ASCAP's FAQ page: <http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensing.html>.

The same rules apply to public live performances of copyrighted music,
incidentally.  This means that producers of dance events really ought to
acquire ASCAP/BMI licenses if their bands are going to play any original
tunes; to the best of my knowledge, no organization that produces contra or
ECD events has ever done so, but they should.  I heard rumors a few years
back that some contra got busted because the band played "Ashokan
Farewell"; Jay Ungar, who wrote it, probably wouldn't have bothered, but
he'd assigned the copyright when the tune was used as the theme music for
the Civil War series, and the new copyright holder (PBS, probably) was
somewhat less sanguine about having its copyright infringed.  Whether this
is true or not, this sort of thing is always a possibility, and the
licenses aren't all that expensive.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 14:52:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 17:52:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <44.e71b375.284eae9e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 6/5/01 2:27:00 PM, jberger-AT-
monitor.net writes:

<< > Also, opinions vary on "Mount Hills."  Some really excellent musicians 
have
> let me know that they don't like the tune much and don't feel they can do 
that
> much with it.

I'm surprised to hear that.  I think it's a great tune and I wish the dance
were done more often.  >>

I'll throw in my vote with those who don't like it. I don't enjoy playing it, 
and I feel the dance is as generic as they come. Can't figure out what some 
see in it. 

BTW, apologies for the multiple posts about the Balto ball - my e-mail (AOL) 
did it - honest - I kept re-sending it because AOL said it hadn't gone out!

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:10:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:09:53 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: copy rights and wrongs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010605230953.KUDZ29822.lowblow-AT-
[204.71.145.48]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Modern Western square dance callers were quite surly about this 
about 10 years ago.  They use a lot of recorded music - much of 
it more modern than ours - and ASCAP/BMI were knocking on their 
various doors asking for the royalties.  They use a lot of pop 
tunes, and the records in their cases made those tunes pretty 
easy to identify.  

On the other hand, I can imagine the fate of some poor ASCAP 
snoop showing up at the local contra dance and discovering that 
there is no sheet music, only two of the musicians know the name 
of the tune they're playing, only one of them knows that it came 
from a field recording of Dolph Millarsson taped three weeks 
before he died.  Nobody knows where Dolph learned it.  As the 
snoop goes back to the office and tries to discover the genesis 
of the other tunes he taped the band playing that night, all but 
three are are unknown or in the public domain, and those three 
were written by band members, who are overjoyed that anyone is 
playing them at all.  Not a very good return on three days of 
work,  not to mention that he broke the law himself making an 
unauthorized recording.

Not that this means we don't have legal obligation to pay 
royalties.  A big problem for the ASCAP folks, as I see it, is 
in the very formula that gives most of the royalty money to the 
people whose music is broadcast.  Most folk artists are 
supporting each other better by providing venues for each other - 
and putting up with (and even buying!) each other's music at 
them - than they ever could by climbing on that ASCAP/BMI 
bandwagon.  So, much of the folk music world treats performance 
of copywrought material as a sort of black market, whether they 
understand it that way or not.

Roger Diggle


Jon Berger wrote:  

>Recordings protected by copyright laws (which is usually indicated by the
>circle-P symbol) may be legally played in public if and only if the person
>or organization playing them has purchased a license to do so from one of
>the licensing organizations, ASCAP (the American Society of Composers,
>Authors, and Publishers) or BMI (Broadcast Music, Inc., although ASCAP
>diehards claim it really stands for Bad Music Instead).  The idea is that
>the copyright holders join one of the licensing organizations, and the
>organizations then collect the license fees and split them up among their
>members.  The formula by which they calculate which member gets how much is
>quite complicated, and tends to be very closely tied in with how much radio
>air play a given piece has gotten; this is a bit unfair to people who write
>the sort of music that doesn't get played on the radio very much, but it's
>how the system works.
>
>For a very thorough treatment of the subject of performance licensing, I
>recommend ASCAP's FAQ page: <http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensing.html>.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 16:20:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:17:37 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: copy rights and wrongs
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b74318ec716d-AT-
[140.186.55.207]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106051039260.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>

>ECD events has ever done so, but they should.  I heard rumors a few years
>back that some contra got busted because the band played "Ashokan
>Farewell"; Jay Ungar, who wrote it, probably wouldn't have bothered, but
>he'd assigned the copyright when the tune was used as the theme music for
>the Civil War series, and the new copyright holder (PBS, probably) was
>somewhat less sanguine about having its copyright infringed.

Jeez.  Jay did that???  Who gave him that bad piece of advice?
-- 
Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 18:56:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:34:42 -0400
From: pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Ashokan Farewell" copyright
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01060521344203-AT-
tedcrane.com>
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In regards recent conversation:

>>ECD events has ever done so, but they should.  I heard rumors a few years
>>back that some contra got busted because the band played "Ashokan
>>Farewell"; Jay Ungar, who wrote it, probably wouldn't have bothered, but
>>he'd assigned the copyright when the tune was used as the theme music for
>>the Civil War series, and the new copyright holder (PBS, probably) was
>>somewhat less sanguine about having its copyright infringed.

>Jeez.  Jay did that???  Who gave him that bad piece of advice?

I just happend to be talking with someone here in central NY
about that tune & Jay's royalties... I don't believe that he's signed off
copyright to anyone else.  The info I have is that he's still getting
some small amount of money (2/10 of a cent, or something like that)
each time it's commercially used. (And it gets used for lots of odd things,
such as a marching band routine somewhere in this great US of A.)
He's in the fortunate position of being a folk musician 
who's actually making a good living from a tune
he wrote... was able to send his daughter to college on it.

The Ithaca dance (contra) has occasionally been hasseled by ASCAP/BMI
about royalty issues.  We have a clause in our musician's contract
to cover the question.  Considering the money (or lack of) involved,
our conversations with ASCAP/BMI have been along the lines of
"it's not really worth your time".  If there wasn't a certain level of
"fair use" understanding & generosity in our dance communities,
we would be limiting the vibrancy of the art.  One of the things I
hold most dear is the level of generosity and sharing that is
so integral to contra and English country dance.

That being said, I have similar concerns to Steve C's about the use
of recorded music.  It's one of the reasons that I insist on useing
live musicians for our English dances... even if it means we
don't dance as frequently.  I'd rather support local musicians
than use recordings in ways that don't necessarily match 
the artist's vision.  I understand that some dances have to make other 
choices... and that some recordings were designed to be used 
for dances.  I have strong feelings about supporting artists by
purchasing their recordings (rather than boot-legging a copy),
and encouraging local musicians to develop their feel for the tunes.
So this is the choice/compromise we've made here.

-Pamela

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:29:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:26:18 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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I've really enjoyed reading the discussion about copyright... add my vote
of thanks especially to Jon for his thorough and clear explanations of
the law.

The "problem" seems to me to be that the law doesn't appear to
distinguish between "supplantive" copying and occasional use of a portion
of a work in non-commercial settings.  For example, Gary Roodman
publishes books of his dances.  If someone photocopies his books and
sells them or even gives them away, I believe he would/should rightfully
seek legal redress under copyright law. But what about putting one of the
dances from his book on a Playford Ball program, and posting the
instructions on the Ball web site, or in a booklet sent to registrants? 
I know that Gary doesn't publish for the money (though he certainly ought
to recover his costs and make every dollar he can from his considerable
effort), but because he's proud of his creations and pleased that others
who share his love of ECD want to do his dances.  He and most other
choreographers I know publish mainly to get their stuff into the
community, and would be disappointed if their dances could not be done
because groups could not schedule them for special events because the
copyright law prohibits posting/copying/reprinting the instructions.

Jon, would a statement appearing in such publications along the lines of
"Users of this publication are granted permission to duplicate the
instructions for one or more individual dances as an aid to performance
of the dance(s)." clear the path and solve the problem without having to
ask our elected representatives to change the law?

Similar thinking for CD's.  "The copyright holder(s) grant permission to
users to make single copies of one or more individual tracks for the
purpose of teaching and performing the dances."  Does that work?  [BTW,
ECD-list readers might be interested to know that for all the Bare
Necessities Boston Centre CD's I've produced, standard royalties have
been paid to composers or to their estates for original dance tunes under
copyright, at significant cost to the Boston Centre.  So we've been
playing by the rules.]

These statements or their more proper equivalents would allow the ECD
community to use these works as we all (including the authors, I'm fairly
sure) would like, while protecting authors' rights and income.  I'm happy
to have ECD leaders copy selected tracks from our MGM/Fried Herman CD
into MP3 files for convenience of teaching, but if some director of a
"major motion picture" picks up a track from the CD and the movie
soundtrack becomes a huge hit, I certainly would like my share of the
royalties (though my "daughter" happens to be a mutt, and would not be
accepted at most colleges).

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Musician, and Caller who often copies things wrong
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
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ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:04:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD players for sound system
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010606040415.28721.qmail-AT-
web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- peter groblicki <pgroblic-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have found a player whose specifications seem ideal for my
> application. It is a variable speed cassette / CD "boom box"
> made by Califone. It has a built-in 10 watt amp and speakers,
> as well as line outputs for connection to a PA system. It's
> reasonably priced at around $200. It's a model 2455AV 
> and more info is at www.califone.com/2400av.pdf.
> 
> Has anyone used one of these?  Do you have any info on
> reliability and convenience of operation?

The Scandinavian performing group that I dance with has a
kareoke boombox that we use. It gives us the option of cassettes
or CD's and it gives us a microphone for announcing. The
cassette has variable pitch on it. We use it weekly at
rehearsals and occassionally for performances that don't have
any other sound system available.

Andy in Portland OR

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 
a year!  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:31:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:30:02 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a05100300b743588f672d-AT-
[140.186.54.49]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

Basically, as I understand it, the US copyright law provides the 
creator protection from infringment up to $150,000 and legal fees if 
the work is registered with the US Copyright office.  Barring that, 
the protection on a practical basis only extends to the actual costs 
of the creation, in my case of the piece of film containing the image 
in question.

Creators of intellectual property grant licenses for usage on any 
terms they can negotiate.  So a writer or composer or illustrator can 
grant a license for a usage like you're discussing here for whatever 
sum of money the buyer and seller can agree upon.

However, contracts are understood to be binding only when written 
out, dated and signed by the affected parties, so blanket public 
"contracts" or permissions, like the one you've mentioned, I believe, 
wouldn't really permit what they appear to permit, at least I don't 
think that would stand up in a court.

There is a slippery section of the copyright law pertaining to 
something called "fair use" which is often construed to mean 
something more along the lines of what you want.  But as the notion 
of "fair use" gets drawn into courts, it gets refined, and the 
refinements are reducing it to ever smaller and smaller bits of the 
copyrighted work.  Of course, the creators want to restrict fair use 
to quoting a couple of lines, or a section of a paragraph while the 
big publishing firms want to construe it to mean republishing 
reworked consolidations of their magazines (The National Geographic 
Society is embroiled in one of those) and their newspapers (The New 
York Times, which owns The Boston Globe and has created a database of 
everything published and sells the articles and photographs, is up 
before the Supreme Court right now for that).

So the penalty for infringing a copyright depends entirely on whether 
the creator registered the work.  If the creator did, the infringer 
usually just pays up.  If the creator didn't, the creator has 90 days 
from the first publication of the infringing work to get the 
protection of registration.

In effect this means that unless Gary and Peter Barnes and Bare 
Necessities and all those folks we love to play with registered their 
publications and recordings, we don't have a whole lot to get 
concerned about legally.

BUT

there are ethical considerations, may of which have been brought up 
here.  And we can subscribe to those considerations or not as our 
ethics leads us.

And you can be certain that some big corporation which wishes to use 
a tune or dance or illustration, or image, or story, or doctoral 
dissertation or any other piece of intellectual property, is not 
going to care about ethical considerations.

So if you're a creator, register your copyright and then pick your 
fights, and if you're a community dance leader, buy the CD or 
instruction booklet, and when you meet the dance creator, or some 
member of the band, make certain they understand that you enjoy what 
they've given, and check with them about ways you may disseminate it. 
And if you want to use one of Gary's dances, or Charles' or Colin's 
or Fried's or Pat's in your ball program, do them the courtesy of 
checking with them first.

Then honor their preferences.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 22:22:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:22:07 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010606052208.MFRV9030.chruser-AT-
[204.71.145.48]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Emily L. Ferguson wrote:  

>   ...  Of course, the creators want to restrict fair use 
>to quoting a couple of lines, or a section of a paragraph while the 
>big publishing firms want to construe it to mean republishing 
>reworked consolidations of their magazines (The National Geographic 
>Society is embroiled in one of those) and their newspapers (The New 
>York Times, which owns The Boston Globe and has created a database of 
>everything published and sells the articles and photographs, is up 
>before the Supreme Court right now for that).


If anyone is interested in more information about the Times/Globe 
suit, I just listened to a very good "radio" program that Christopher 
Lydon has in his web archive.  It's at:
http://www.nesm.net/lydon/
look for the program that was webcast on March 27, 2001.

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:39:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:34:47 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <006101c0ee52$c86a1be0$392b4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106051119150.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>

On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> Also, opinions vary on "Mount Hills."  Some really excellent musicians
have
> let me know that they don't like the tune much and don't feel they can do
that
> much with it.

<<I'm surprised to hear that.  I think it's a great tune and I wish the
dance
were done more often.  The only time I ever get to play it is when I'm
playing for one of the Renaissance Faire groups that does a different
dance, "Uffington Horse," to the tune, and it's not as much fun to play at
the speed they like to dance it.>>

And we could play it for half an hour and not get tired, nor repeat
ourselves. People differ, yes?

Peace,
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:48:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106052250580.29077-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 6 Jun 2001, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> Basically, as I understand it, the US copyright law provides the 
> creator protection from infringment up to $150,000 and legal fees if 
> the work is registered with the US Copyright office.  Barring that, 
> the protection on a practical basis only extends to the actual costs 
> of the creation, in my case of the piece of film containing the image 
> in question.

That's somewhat inaccurate: the damages which can be collected in the case
of an unregistered copyright are the actual damages suffered by the
plaintiff due to the infringement.  This has nothing to do with the costs
of the creation; this has to do with the amount of money the author could
have made but was deprived of making due to the infringement.  As a
practical matter, this means any money the infringer made by exploiting the
infringed work, though there can be other approaches to computing damages.
So, if I spend $1,000,000 making a movie, and someone makes an unauthorized
copy, then he's infringed my copyright, but if he didn't sell any copies
and the market for my movie is unaffected, then my damages are zero, not
$1,000,000.

Someone who wants to enforce an unregistered copyright has another
potential angle of approach: he can seek an injunction, a court order
telling the infringer to stop infringing.  This is a real possibility and
shouldn't be discounted; it's common practice, for example, with infringed
web sites, since a lot of people don't bother registering copyrights in
their web sites.  I do agree, though, with the general notion that
infringing an unregistered copyright is a lot safer than infringing a
registered one, for those who like to play the odds.  The statutory damages
aren't the scary part, since the judge has the discretion to reduce them to
zero and might well do so if the infringement wasn't too egregious.  The
attorneys' fees are the scary part.  You'd be amazed how high those fees
can get when the guy your client just beat in court has to pay them.

> Creators of intellectual property grant licenses for usage on any 
> terms they can negotiate.  So a writer or composer or illustrator can 
> grant a license for a usage like you're discussing here for whatever 
> sum of money the buyer and seller can agree upon.

I agree with this.  Moreover, an author can grant a license to use the work
for one purpose (for example, teaching and performing at public dances) and
not another (for example, use in TV adaptations of Jane Austen novels made
by production companies with lots of money to throw around).

> However, contracts are understood to be binding only when written 
> out, dated and signed by the affected parties, so blanket public 
> "contracts" or permissions, like the one you've mentioned, I believe, 
> wouldn't really permit what they appear to permit, at least I don't 
> think that would stand up in a court.

This, in my opinion, is completely inaccurate, although I'd be happy to
change my opinion if I were shown any legal authority that contradicts it.
If this *is* accurate, then a sizeable segment of the software industry
known as the "open source community" has been deluding itself for quite a
number of years, since it's common practice among these folks to release
the source code for computer programs with a blanket license permitting the
code to be used under some circumstances but not others.  The operating
system Linux is probably the best-known example of a piece of software
distributed under such a license, but there have been many thousands (at
least) of others.  All open source licenses (the most popular ones may be
inspected at <http://www.opensource.org/licenses/index.html>) grant general
rights to use the licensed source code, but impose restrictions on the
user: for example, the GNU General Public License permits use of the code
by anyone who wants to incorporate it into other software to be released as
open source, but forbids the use of the licensed code by anyone who wants
to release the resulting program in a proprietary fashion (the so-called
"GNU virus").  A great many people would be very happy to discover that the
GNU GPL won't stand up in court.

The question of what, exactly, parties have to do to get into a contractual
relationship is a very large and vexing one, complicated by recent
technological developments like "click-through contracts" on web sites and
"shrink-wrap licenses" inside sealed boxes of software.  I won't go into
detail about it -- for one thing, going into detail would involve
mentioning UCITA, and if you think people get riled up about copyright
laws, that's *nothing* compared to the reactions to UCITA -- but suffice it
to say that "contracts are valid only when written out, dated, and signed
by both parties" is not strictly accurate.

> There is a slippery section of the copyright law pertaining to 
> something called "fair use" which is often construed to mean 
> something more along the lines of what you want.  But as the notion 
> of "fair use" gets drawn into courts, it gets refined, and the 
> refinements are reducing it to ever smaller and smaller bits of the 
> copyrighted work.

I, personally, don't believe that this generalization is true, but again,
I'd happily revisit that opinion if I were pointed toward a study or
article which analyzes the outcomes of a reasonable-sized sampling of
fair-use cases.  The Court of Appeals in the "Wind Done Gone" case, which
has been mentioned in this discussion more than once, has just held that
the novel made fair use of pretty much the entirety of "Gone With The
Wind," a not insubstantial book.  Fair use has to do with a number of
factors, of which the amount of material copied is only one, and not the
most important one by any means.  

> So if you're a creator, register your copyright and then pick your 
> fights, and if you're a community dance leader, buy the CD or 
> instruction booklet, and when you meet the dance creator, or some 
> member of the band, make certain they understand that you enjoy what 
> they've given, and check with them about ways you may disseminate it. 
> And if you want to use one of Gary's dances, or Charles' or Colin's 
> or Fried's or Pat's in your ball program, do them the courtesy of 
> checking with them first.
> 
> Then honor their preferences.

I agree with this 100%.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 05:00:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 02:23:03 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: copy rights and wrongs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000c01c0ee59$8727b3c0$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20010605230953.KUDZ29822.lowblow-AT-
[204.71.145.48]>

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>

<<On the other hand, I can imagine the fate of some poor ASCAP
snoop showing up at the local contra dance and discovering that
there is no sheet music, only two of the musicians know the name
of the tune they're playing, only one of them knows that it came
from a field recording of Dolph Millarsson taped three weeks
before he died.  Nobody knows where Dolph learned it.  As the
snoop goes back to the office and tries to discover the genesis
of the other tunes he taped the band playing that night, all but
three are are unknown or in the public domain, and those three
were written by band members, who are overjoyed that anyone is
playing them at all.  Not a very good return on three days of
work,  not to mention that he broke the law himself making an
unauthorized recording.>>

About ten years ago, a band I was in played at a joint called The Miller's
Daughter. One day the ASCAP fella came checking it out; I happily gave him
our set list, knowing full well that the only things in it that were under a
hundred years old were a few tunes I'd written myself. Well, he got back to
the owner and demanded she pay up, saying over half the titles on our list
were under copyright. Or, at least, he'd found the titles in his computer.
Apparently there are a lot of tunes with names like "Hole in the Wall". Or
someone, sometime, copyrighted a bunch of Playford tunes. Happened to a lot
of folk songs, too.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 05:00:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 02:31:34 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: "Ashokan Farewell" copyright
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003e01c0ee5a$b7545ac0$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01060521344203-AT-
tedcrane.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: Pamela Goddard <pam-AT-
tedcrane.com>

<<The Ithaca dance (contra) has occasionally been hasseled by ASCAP/BMI
about royalty issues.  We have a clause in our musician's contract
to cover the question.>>

How does it read?

Peace,
Paul (in favor of writers getting their royalties -- hey, I *are* a
writer -- but deeply averse to a system that makes struggling venues pay
money to ASCAP and BMI so that when someone performing at the venue plays a
copyrighted tune by Larry Ungar, the organization pays a small royalty to
Garth Brooks)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 05:00:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 02:47:29 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <006c01c0ee5c$f0e03000$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> <a05100300b743588f672d-AT-
[140.186.54.49]>

----- Original Message -----
From: Emily L. Ferguson <elf-AT-
cape.com>

<<And if you want to use one of Gary's dances, or Charles' or Colin's
or Fried's or Pat's in your ball program, do them the courtesy of
checking with them first.

Then honor their preferences.>>

Just got done doing that for the St. Louis Playford Ball. We posted most of
the dances on the website, but left out "Elizabeth" until we'd written to
Colin asking for permission. He gave it, we posted it (with copyright notice
and attribution, including the title of the book it was in), and then, after
the ball was over, we removed it, as he had requested. Simple, easy, and
only took two e-mails on my part and one on his, plus about five minutes of
website-futzing time.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 06:59:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:59:28 +0100
From: Paul Davis <paul.davis-AT-
computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005b01c0ee90$e722e920$2e0e01a3-AT-
oucs.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> <a05100300b743588f672d-AT-
[140.186.54.49]> <006c01c0ee5c$f0e03000$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>

Here in the UK we have a system through the Phonographic Performance Licence
for recorded music.  It costs about £30 per year and allows use of recorded
music at club meetings.  So we pay our money and it goes to Garth Crooks or
whoever, BUT, each club is sent out a form to fill in which allows a return
of which recordings have been used (formally  records but it's now track
specific due to artist royalties).  I suspect most clubs don't bother, but
if we all took the trouble then the payments multiply up for the folk
musicians and a slight reduction for the pop people.

I suspect there may be similar through the US licensing bodies.

Paul
Dr Paul Davis


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:00:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:00:38 +0800
From: Cynthia A Neto <can210-AT-
nyu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Please take me off your e-mail list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <29546eb2954725.295472529546eb-AT-
homemail.nyu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If someone could give me directions as how to unsuscribe myself, I'd appreciate 
it
Cynthia 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:05:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 09:05:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0106060850460.810-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Gene Murrow wrote:

> Jon, would a statement appearing in such publications along the lines of
> "Users of this publication are granted permission to duplicate the
> instructions for one or more individual dances as an aid to performance
> of the dance(s)." clear the path and solve the problem without having to
> ask our elected representatives to change the law?

In my opinion, a limited-use license like that would be perfectly valid and
enforceable.  Emily raised the issue that limited-use licenses might not be
enforceable because they don't constitute contracts.  I disagree for a
number of reasons, some of which I listed in my reply to Emily.  The
underlying reasons why I think this is wrong are fairly technical, though,
and I don't want to go into them here.  If anyone would like me to expound
further on this issue, I'll be glad to do so by private email.

I might want to change the wording a bit from what you've suggested,
though.  It seems to me that your proposed language wouldn't provide a
sufficient safeguard against use of the dances by the people you really
WANT to safeguard against: people who will use them to make large
quantities of money and not share it with you.  The example that occurs to
me -- I've mentioned this before -- is someone who's making a TV adaptation
of some novel that involves country dancing, and who decides he wants to
use one of your original dances.  I think it's pretty reasonable to want to
charge this person some money for the privilege of using your work, so I
think the licensing language, if it's going to be anything other than "all
rights reserved," ought to draw an explicit distinction between the types
of use you're licensing and the types you aren't.  If anyone wants to
seriously consider publishing under a limited-use license, contact me by
private email and I'll be glad to consult on the wording.  (Caveat: this is
the sort of thing I do for a living.)

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:11:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:11:49 -0400
From: David Brightbill <djb-AT-
macguys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Please take me off your e-mail list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B743EAA3.FFFC%djb-AT-
macguys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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on 6/6/01 12:00 PM, Cynthia A Neto at can210-AT-
nyu.edu wrote:

> If someone could give me directions as how to unsuscribe myself, I'd
> appreciate 
> it
> Cynthia 


I have checked both the Macintosh hints/tips list, the Dog Island list, and
the Land Co-op list, and have not found you on any of them.  Those are the
only ones I administer.  Maybe you got the wrong dave brightbill.

Dave Brightbill

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:22:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:23:24 -0400
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD for international dancers
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <036001c0eec6$89e38ae0$776cd626-AT-
lorettapc>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_frQLwK3u2iuyK+yLsYlCxA)"
References: <9d.166629fe.284d9b25-AT-
aol.com>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_frQLwK3u2iuyK+yLsYlCxA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

  Rachel asked:
  Which 3 dances would you suggest to help international dancers fall in love with ECD?  

  Since I teach the ECD done at Morristown Folk Dancers (now located in Bernardsville, NJ) on a weekly basis, I feel I'm in a good position to answer your question.  That is, I run the beginner teaching and since I like ECD and SCD I teach a dance from one of these every week.

  These are the dances I would rate as appealing to the dancers and fitting your request:
  Duke of Kent's Waltz
  Fenterlarick
  Freeford Gardens
  Childgrove
  Irish Lamenation (version that starts with corners setting).

  With the more challenging dances only some members of the group do the dances.  They do: Prince William, Fandango and Bare Necessities

  Also in the repertoire: Hole in the Wall, Black Nag, Drapers Garden, Jack's Maggot, Dargason, Geud Man of Ballangigh and more

  Another one I have not seen anywhere else is Lads of Kildare--is that an early contra??

  Hope this helps.
  Loretta Holz

--Boundary_(ID_frQLwK3u2iuyK+yLsYlCxA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Rachel asked:</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Which 3 dances would you suggest to help 
  international dancers fall in love with ECD?&nbsp; </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Since I teach the ECD done at Morristown Folk 
  Dancers (now located in Bernardsville, NJ) on a weekly basis, I feel I'm in a 
  good position to answer your question.&nbsp; That is, I run the beginner 
  teaching and since I like ECD and SCD I teach a dance from one of these every 
  week.</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">These are the dances I would rate as appealing 
  to the dancers and fitting your request:</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Duke of Kent's Waltz</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Fenterlarick</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Freeford Gardens</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Childgrove</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Irish Lamenation (version that starts with 
  corners setting).</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">With the more challenging dances only some 
  members of the group do the dances.&nbsp; They do: Prince William, Fandango 
  and Bare Necessities</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Also in the repertoire: Hole in the Wall, Black 
  Nag, Drapers Garden, Jack's Maggot, Dargason, Geud Man of Ballangigh and 
  more</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Another one I have not seen anywhere 
  else&nbsp;is&nbsp;Lads of Kildare--is that an early contra??</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Hope this helps.</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">Loretta Holz</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_frQLwK3u2iuyK+yLsYlCxA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:59:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:59:31 +0100
From: jmtraining <jmtraining-AT-
ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000901c0eecb$960bc760$76a468d5-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> <a05100300b743588f672d-AT-
[140.186.54.49]> <006c01c0ee5c$f0e03000$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <005b01c0ee90$e722e920$2e0e01a3-AT-
oucs.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

Incidentaly, in the UK we have a classical music station Classic FM which is
the (?)3rd or 4th most listened to national radio station. Every Easter they
have a listeners vote at to the 'Classic Hall of Fame' - essentially a top
300 classics.

Last year the surprise entry was At no 100 - Ashokan farewell. In 2001 the
fastest climber was - you've guessed - Ashokan farewell. They play a version
by the Band of the Royal marines.

John Meechan

----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Davis <paul.davis-AT-
computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!


> Here in the UK we have a system through the Phonographic Performance
Licence
> for recorded music.  It costs about £30 per year and allows use of
recorded
> music at club meetings.  So we pay our money and it goes to Garth Crooks
or
> whoever, BUT, each club is sent out a form to fill in which allows a
return
> of which recordings have been used (formally  records but it's now track
> specific due to artist royalties).  I suspect most clubs don't bother, but
> if we all took the trouble then the payments multiply up for the folk
> musicians and a slight reduction for the pop people.
>
> I suspect there may be similar through the US licensing bodies.
>
> Paul
> Dr Paul Davis
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:05:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 17:01:09 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities recordings
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, rdmg-AT-
rcn.com, Daniel_Pearl-AT-
yahoo.com, egaddis-AT-
bigfoot.com, Frank.Attanasio-AT-
hanscom.af.mil, jaspianist-AT-
aol.com, marylea-AT-
sover.net, emailbarnes-AT-
iname.com, gaff-AT-
neu.edu
Message-ID: <20010606.170120.-748265.13.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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Dear friends,

The ever-prolific BN's are heading back to the studio next week to finish
the recording of Volume 6 of their Boston Centre series, and to begin
Volume 7.  [The program lists and release schedules for volumes 5 and 6
are appended at the end of this message for your information].

Volume 7, tentatively titled "By Request," is the album of "stuff which
should have been recorded by now but isn't."   We have the following
candidates on our list (thanks to many of you who responded to my request
earlier in the year for suggestions).  I'd appreciate any responses now
with:  1) additional suggestions and 2) citations of known recordings
already in existence.  Again, we wish to avoid unnecessary duplication of
effort.

Thanks!

Gene Murrow, Producer

Volume 7 "By Request" candidates:

Alderman's Hat
Cockle Shells
Cupid's Garden
Collier's Daughter
Dover Pier
Faithless Nancy Dawson
Fast Packet
Gigue for Genny
Gypsy Round
In the Fields of Frost and Snow
Indian Princess
Jaque Latin
Midnight Ramble
Mrs. Savage's Whim
Old Batchelor
Ore Boggy
Perpetual Motion
Red and All Red
Room for Ramblers
Ramsgate Assembly
Woodlark
------------------------

Volume 5: "At Home" (set dances suitable for dancing at home)  Release
late Summer '01

Astonished Archaeologist, The
Argeers
Broom, the Bonny Bonny Broom
Chelsea Reach
Epping Forest
Fain I Would
Gigue for Genny
Hunsdon House
Hyde Park
Installation, The
Jovial Beggars
Leah's Waltz
Love and a Bottle
Lull Me Beyond Thee
Merry Andrew (I) - lively version (East Coast tempo)
Merry Andrew (II) - stately version (slow West Coast tempo)
Merry, Merry Milkmaids
Mrs. Pomeroy's Pavane
Once A Night
Oxford Circus
Randolph Farewell
Shrewsbury Lasses
Sir Watkin's Jig

Volume 6: "At the Ball" (longways dances drawn from BN's 20 years'
experience playing for the Philadelphia Ball)  Release late Fall '01

Amarillis
Anna Maria
Bar a Bar
Corelli's Maggot
King of Poland
Leather Lake House
Mount Hills
Mulberry Garden
Never Love Thee More
Northdown Waltz
Prince George's Birthday
Pursuit
Red House
Sadler's Wells
Young Widow
----------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
post.harvard.edu> - for your Address book
ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
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destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:43:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:43:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mount Hills
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4c.1666538c.2850605c-AT-
aol.com>
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Jon said
>
On Tue, 5 Jun 2001, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>
>> Also, opinions vary on "Mount Hills."  Some really excellent musicians have
>> let me know that they don't like the tune much and don't feel they can do 
that
>> much with it.
>
>I'm surprised to hear that.  I think it's a great tune and I wish the dance
>were done more often.  The only time I ever get to play it is when I'm
>playing for one of the Renaissance Faire groups that does a different
>dance, "Uffington Horse," to the tune, and it's not as much fun to play at
>the speed they like to dance it. >>

Permit me to interject a solid cheer for "Mount Hills", tune and dance.  I 
enjoyed it immensely at this year's Bay Area Ball.  Moreover, doing the 
half-figures of eight in a skip change leaves just time for one rant step in 
place at the end of the A music.  Jon, you can come play it at one of my 
dance teas anytime.

Nilos, entirely biased

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 00:05:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:07:21 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities recordings
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: "Murrow, Gene" <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Message-ID: <3B1F2829.CE554DFF-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20010606.170120.-748265.13.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

> Volume 7 "By Request" candidates:
>
> Alderman's Hat

On EFDSS Apted recording.

> Cockle Shells
> Cupid's Garden

On Wild thyme double cassette for Maggot Pie

> Collier's Daughter
> Dover Pier
> Faithless Nancy Dawson
> Fast Packet
> Gigue for Genny
> Gypsy Round
> In the Fields of Frost and Snow

On Wild Thyme's tapes for Fallibroome

> Indian Princess

On the LP that goes with one of Colin's books.

> Jaque Latin
> Midnight Ramble
> Mrs. Savage's Whim
> Old Batchelor
> Ore Boggy
> Perpetual Motion

Excellent recording on Not Quite New.

> Red and All Red
> Room for Ramblers
> Ramsgate Assembly
> Woodlark

On Wild Thyme's tapes for Fallibroome.

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 03:55:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:59:26 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities recordings
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B1F5DFE.769C-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <20010606.170120.-748265.13.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

Volume 7 "By Request" candidates:

Alderman's Hat							Apted
Cockle Shells							Bolton, Retread ? (electronic)
Cupid's Garden							Wild Thyme, Maggot Pie
Collier's Daughter						Bolton, Retread ? (electronic)
Dover Pier								Ring O'Bells, Kentish Hops
Faithless Nancy Dawson
Fast Packet
Gigue for Genny
Gypsy Round
In the Fields of Frost and Snow			Wild Thyme, Fallibroome Collection
Indian Princess							Wild Thyme, Dances with a Difference, 2
Jaque Latin
Midnight Ramble
Mrs. Savage's Whim
Old Batchelor							Assembly Players, A Purcell Ball
Ore Boggy
Perpetual Motion						West Kirby, Not
Red and All Red							Bolton, Retreads ? (electronic)
Room for Ramblers						West Kirby, Not Quite the Same
Ramsgate Assembly						Ring O'Bells, Kentish Hops
Woodlark								Wild Thyme, Fallibroome Collection
------------------------

Volume 5: "At Home" (set dances suitable for dancing at home)  Release
late Summer '01

Astonished Archaeologist, The
Argeers									Several recordings available
Broom, the Bonny Bonny Broom			Several recordings available
Chelsea Reach							Several recordings available
Epping Forest							Several recordings available
Fain I Would							Playford Series
Gigue for Genny		?????? Are you recording this twice (cf. vol. 7)
Hunsdon House							Several recordings available
Hyde Park								Several recordings available
Installation, The						Falconers, Haphazard
Jovial Beggars							Wild Thyme, Maggot Pie
Leah's Waltz
Love and a Bottle						Bray version, Playford Consort (Marshall Barron);
Fallibroome version, Peter Jenkins, For Your Pleasure 3 (probably not
available now)
Lull Me Beyond Thee						Several recordings available
Merry Andrew (I) - lively version (East Coast tempo)	Wild Thyme, Maggot
Pie
Merry Andrew (II) - stately version (slow West Coast tempo)
Merry, Merry Milkmaids					Several recordings available
Mrs. Pomeroy's Pavane					Bolton, 
Once A Night							Apted
Oxford Circus							Is done to Parsons Farewell
Randolph Farewell
Shrewsbury Lasses						Several recordings available
Sir Watkin's Jig						West Kirby, Playford Plus

Volume 6: "At the Ball" (longways dances drawn from BN's 20 years'
experience playing for the Philadelphia Ball)  Release late Fall '01

Amarillis								Playford Series
Anna Maria								Which version? Playford (1721) West Kirby, Not Quite
Gold; 	Fallibroome	(Thomas Budd), Wild Thyme, Fallibroome Collection.
Bar a Bar								West Kirby, Playford Plus		
Corelli's Maggot
King of Poland							Several recordings available
Leather Lake House
Mount Hills								Two's Company, All Alive!
Mulberry Garden							Playford series
Never Love Thee More					Several recordings available
Northdown Waltz							Ring O'Bells, Kentish Hops
Prince George's Birthday				As King's Maggot (x3) Two's comapny, All
alive
Pursuit									Bolton, Charles Choice (electronic)
Red House
Sadler's Wells							Apted (LIB 1)
Young Widow								Playford Consort, Young Widow; Bolton, Retread ?
(electronic)


Note: This is by no means a comprehensive list of recordings.

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 03:57:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:01:31 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Copyrights, yet again!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3B1F5F06.3724-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <20010605.232621.-748265.5.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> <a05100300b743588f672d-AT-
[140.186.54.49]> <006c01c0ee5c$f0e03000$df2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam> <005b01c0ee90$e722e920$2e0e01a3-AT-
oucs.oucs.ox.ac.uk>

The £36 fee for a PPL licence is a special concession to EFDSS members
and affliates.

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 06:58:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:06:17 -0400
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mount Hills
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A64.004DD819.00-AT-
Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Oh, very well. Nilos' message has persuaded me to pitch in too. Having danced,
taught, and played Mount Hills, I'll say that I love it.
Of course, for the advanced dancer, there is nothing very surprising in its
figures--but not all dances are brain-teasers, nor should they have to be. My
feeling about MH, as about Hole in the Wall (I actually typed "Hold in the
Wall"--"It's an earthquake! Good God, man, Hold In The Wall!") or Take a Dance
or Dover Pier or The Schmatte, is that it is a pleasure at times just to move
musically. Similarly, it's a dance that a relatively new dancer can
master--Look, Ma, I'm dancing!

To my ears, it is one of the almost *offensively* happy, coltish tunes--the
challenge for the musician is that the melody is relatively busy, and the chord
changes *just* fast enough that it's hard to do more than follow them
(especially if done piano solo, as I have done). So, it is more difficult to
color outside the lines. Not impossible, just more difficult.

So, I don't even rant, and don't always skip or skip-change, and I still love
it.

The BancWare Client Conference
June 10th-June 14th, 2001
Westin Copley Hotel
Boston, MA  02116

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  02110
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:18:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 10:38:17 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities duplicates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010607.103842.-748265.16.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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Thanks to Hugh, Graham, Philippe and others for the extensive
discographies.

The large number of duplications with previous recordings in our "By
Request" candidate list prompts the obvious question:

"If so many of these dances are already recorded, why are dance leaders
requesting that they be recorded?"

Many plausible reasons, I suppose:  some of the recordings are not
readily available (all are from U.K.), or are in less desirable formats
(LP's, or even tape cassettes), some are not of highest quality (either
technically or musically), or are not to current tastes (tempos, dated
styles, etc.).  Of course some people simply would like to have the Bare
Necessities version because of their unique approach; many of these
buyers are listeners, rather than dance leaders.  

My suspicion is, however, that many dance leaders just don't know about
these previous recordings (let alone what dances are actually on them),
and that the producers (often the musicians themselves) are not marketing
them well, making sure the world at large knows about them and that key
distributors like CDSS and Cotswold Music make it convenient to purchase
them.  

This is not good for our small community.  What do we do to fix it?  How
about a web site maintained by a competent volunteer listing all
available ECD recordings with playlists, band info, format, price,
purchase source, and perhaps a short audio clip or two? Might as well do
a complete index with printed sources of instructions and music as well. 
This is the kind of project I'm pretty certain CDSS (Gadd/Merrill Fund)
would consider for funding.  Cooperation with the U.K. folks who do "What
Was That Dance" and the CDSS index project in process would be desirable.
 All producers and publishers would forward information about new
publications to the webmaster.  

Any volunteers? Hugh  :-)?

Gene

P.S. Yes, Gigue for Genny was recorded for Volume 5.  Its appearance on
the By Request list was a copying error (I told you I'm not good at copy
rights).
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:18:09 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:33:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: Re: Gene's Suggestion for a Grand Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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juno.com>

Gene: you suggested. . .

[snips, here and there]

> My suspicion is, however, that many dance leaders just don't know about
> these previous recordings (let alone what dances are actually on them),
> and that the producers (often the musicians themselves) are not
> marketing them well, making sure the world at large knows about them
> and that key distributors like CDSS and Cotswold Music make it
> convenient to purchase them.  
> 
> This is not good for our small community.  What do we do to fix it? 
> How about a web site maintained by a competent volunteer listing all
> available ECD recordings with playlists, band info, format, price,
> purchase source, and perhaps a short audio clip or two? Might as well
> do a complete index with printed sources of instructions and music as
> well.

I add: include info about: Is the piece recorded as 'danceable' or more for 
listening. If suitable for dancing, how many times thru?

The touchy pa