Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:34:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 09:33:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Yiddish Country Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010302173351.13173.qmail-AT-
web1607.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Queen Esther's Jig
Naches of the Town
Chazzen's Farewell
The Maidel Peeped Out at the Window
Chief Rabbi
Rosh Hashanah Shacharit (New Year's Day in the Morning)
St. Margaret's Hillel
Kosher Slaughter House
Jack's Gallbladder Operation
Aliyah with Ailey
Gretl in our Shtetl
Nu, this you call a Castle?
Hit or Tsimmis 
Mishpocha DeJersey's Memorial
The Fressed Chip
Mild Chrain
Oy Susato
Shalom be with You
Sun Knesset
In the Bleak Midwinter, When We're in Miami






=====
Don't blame me, I voted with the majority.

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
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Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 18:08:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:09:02 -0500
From: "Roger W. Broseus" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 15th Annual Washington Spring Ball
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20010305210735.00aa3e80-AT-
127.0.0.1>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Friends on the ECD listserv:

The Washington Spring Ball is coming soon: on May 5 to be exact. Come dance 
in the style passed down by Mr. Playford: we are celebrating the 350th 
anniversary of the publication of his seminal dance manual.

Particulars, including a flyer with a list of dances and other info may be 
found on the web at
      www.just.net/~roger/ball2001/flyer.html

A registration form suitable for printing and mailing may be found at
      www.just.net/~roger/ball2001/reg.html

We look forward to seeing you at the Ball.

P.S. If you happen to recieve duplicate mailings, kindly excuse the 
inconvenience.

-- Roger W. Broseus
    Chair/Registrar, 15th Annual Washington Spring Ball, May 5, 2001

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:25:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 11:16:32 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Yiddish Country Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <26.121b7b50.27d66760-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Why do I have the feeling these are all going to come back in two
years on my uncle Norman's joke list?

I'm already aware they've been printed and posted at dances in
Amherst and Berkeley.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:52:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:51:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Yiddish Country Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010307025140.3673.qmail-AT-
web3303.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Why do I have the feeling these are all going to come back in
> two years on my uncle Norman's joke list?
> 
> I'm already aware they've been printed and posted at dances in
> Amherst and Berkeley.
> 

It's your own fault for starting it.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:36:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:31:43 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance notes for Levi Jackson rag
To: ECD LIST <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKKEHFEGAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks,

I seem to have misplaced my notes for this dance.  Does someone have a set they can post or send me privately?

Thanx in advance,
Ric Goldman

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:43:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:42:44 +0000
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000d01c0a8c0$806713c0$93d7b0c2-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <012901c0a86f$be297c80$2b5d893e-AT-
default>

Thankyou all for virus alerts, these are noted.
 I have received the follopwing virus alert from a friend in Germany:-
virus MEROUOQ:Gl.vbs.
 Do not open but delete Twice (2X)
 regards. francis2.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Barry McNamara
  To: Francis & Sue Carter
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:53 AM
  Subject: Fw: Virus Alert



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Barry McNamara
  To: Ann Higley
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:49 AM
  Subject: Fw: Virus Alert



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Barry McNamara
  To: Brian Billen
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:47 AM
  Subject: Fw: Virus Alert



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Derek Appleing
  To: Barry McNamara ; Dave Appleing
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:57 PM
  Subject: Fw: Virus Alert



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Madeleine Smith
  To: Undisclosed Recipient
  Sent: 08 March 2001 23:04
  Subject: Fw: Virus Alert





  ----- Original Message -----
  Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:55 AM
  Subject: Virus Alert



  > Virus Alert (This is not a joke) >
  >
  > A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by
  > Microsoft ( www.microsoft.com ) and by McAfee (www.mcafee.com ) as the
  > most destructive ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by
  > McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply
  > destroys
  > Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its
  > functioning are stored. This virus acts in the following manner: It
  > sends
  > itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A
  > Virtual Card for You". As soon as the supposed virtual
  > card is opened, the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot.
  > When
  > the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus
  > destroys
  > Sector Zero, thus permanently destroying the hard disk. Yesterday in
  > just
  > a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news
  > broadcast by CNN (www.cnn.com > received by an employee of Microsoft
itself.
  >
  > So don't open any emails with subject "A Virtual Card for You". As soon
  > as you get the mail, delete it.
  >
  > Please pass on this mail to all your friends! Forward this to everyone
  > in
  > your address book. I would rather receive this 25 times than not at all.
  >
  > Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was
  > discovered recently. If you receive an email
  > called "An Internet Flower For You", do not open it. Delete it right
  > away!
  > This virus removes all dynamic link libraries(.dll files) from your
  > computer.
  > Your computer will not be able to boot up.! !
  > --
  > Andy Piper





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:04:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:03:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103091349210.2504-100000-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


dear francis2 & other list readers,

"a virtual card for you" and "an internet flower for you" have been
identified as hoaxes, not actual viruses.  

see <http://www.datafellows.com/hoaxes/inflower.shtml> and
<http://www.datafellows.com/hoaxes/vcredit.shtml> for details.

the following should always raise a red flag:

>   > Please pass on this mail to all your friends! Forward this to everyone
>   > in your address book. 

almost any message that tells you to forward it to everyone should *not*
be forwarded.  instead, please check a reliable source to see if the
alleged viruses are for real.  most warnings are themselves another sort
of virus - they persuade people of good will to waste bandwidth by
forwarding them, and cause unnecessary worry.

perhaps someone else can suggest more websites for checking up on virus
warnings?

--susie lorand

On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, francis2 wrote:

> Thankyou all for virus alerts, these are noted.
>  I have received the follopwing virus alert from a friend in Germany:-
> virus MEROUOQ:Gl.vbs.
>  Do not open but delete Twice (2X)
>  regards. francis2.

>   > Virus Alert (This is not a joke) >
>   >
>   > A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by
[snip]
>   > itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A
>   > Virtual Card for You". As soon as the supposed virtual

>   > Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was
>   > discovered recently. If you receive an email
>   > called "An Internet Flower For You", do not open it. Delete it right

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:15:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:13:27 -0800
From: giovanni de amici <g.deamici-AT-
trw.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert IS AN HOAX
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AA92B57.C6FD47C5-AT-
trw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <012901c0a86f$be297c80$2b5d893e-AT-
default> <000d01c0a8c0$806713c0$93d7b0c2-AT-
oemcomputer>

please see
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/virtual.card.hoax.html
where this "virus" is debunked for what it really is: a hoax.
do NOT propagate the alarm.
Giovanni De Amici

francis2 wrote:
> 
> Thankyou all for virus alerts, these are noted.
>  I have received the follopwing virus alert from a friend in Germany:-
> virus MEROUOQ:Gl.vbs.
>  Do not open but delete Twice (2X)
>  regards. francis2.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barry McNamara
>   To: Francis & Sue Carter
>   Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:53 AM
>   Subject: Fw: Virus Alert
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barry McNamara
>   To: Ann Higley
>   Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:49 AM
>   Subject: Fw: Virus Alert
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barry McNamara
>   To: Brian Billen
>   Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 7:47 AM
>   Subject: Fw: Virus Alert
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Derek Appleing
>   To: Barry McNamara ; Dave Appleing
>   Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:57 PM
>   Subject: Fw: Virus Alert
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Madeleine Smith
>   To: Undisclosed Recipient
>   Sent: 08 March 2001 23:04
>   Subject: Fw: Virus Alert
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:55 AM
>   Subject: Virus Alert
> 
>   > Virus Alert (This is not a joke) >
>   >
>   > A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by
>   > Microsoft ( www.microsoft.com ) and by McAfee (www.mcafee.com ) as the
>   > most destructive ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by
>   > McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply
>   > destroys
>   > Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its
>   > functioning are stored. This virus acts in the following manner: It
>   > sends
>   > itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title "A
>   > Virtual Card for You". As soon as the supposed virtual
>   > card is opened, the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot.
>   > When
>   > the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus
>   > destroys
>   > Sector Zero, thus permanently destroying the hard disk. Yesterday in
>   > just
>   > a few hours this virus caused panic in New York, according to news
>   > broadcast by CNN (www.cnn.com > received by an employee of Microsoft
> itself.
>   >
>   > So don't open any emails with subject "A Virtual Card for You". As soon
>   > as you get the mail, delete it.
>   >
>   > Please pass on this mail to all your friends! Forward this to everyone
>   > in
>   > your address book. I would rather receive this 25 times than not at all.
>   >
>   > Also: Intel announced that a new and very destructive virus was
>   > discovered recently. If you receive an email
>   > called "An Internet Flower For You", do not open it. Delete it right
>   > away!
>   > This virus removes all dynamic link libraries(.dll files) from your
>   > computer.
>   > Your computer will not be able to boot up.! !
>   > --
>   > Andy Piper
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 11:44:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:43:15 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fw: Fw: David Kettlewell's enquiry
To: EngCountryDance <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <005701c0a8d1$36112b60$b646193e-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



>I wonder if anyone can help at all?
>
>David Kettlewell wrote...
>I'm interested in just now in something I believe he (Roy Dommett) said,
>that it was documented that there was some kind of Royal Commission after
>Charles II's restoration, which led to dancing-masters travelling round the
>English villages getting them to revive their traditions, but since they
>were from the court, the only choreographic elements they knew were those
of
>French court dances, and since they were sent from the King, they were
>authority figures and their style was followed in preference to  memories
of
>the way things were done those 15 or 20 years ago, before the
>Commonwealth...
>
>Maybe there are other people who have explored the links between 17thC.
>art/popular music/dance who I ought to know about ...
>
>Best Wishes AlanC
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:41:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:38:35 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <001701c0a8d8$ea3f6780$31d5320c-AT-
paulstam>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103091349210.2504-100000-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>

----- Original Message -----
From: Susan R. Lorand <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>

<<perhaps someone else can suggest more websites for checking up on virus
warnings?>>

Try:

http://www.hoaxkill.com

and, for general urban-legend debunking,

http://www.snopes2.com

Incidentally, the phrase "the most destructive yet" is an almost certain
indicator of a hoax. Meanwhile, apparently there *is* a nasty virus
circulating again -- but as an attachment to e-mail, not as e-mail itself.
The general rule of not opening any attachment unless you know the person
who sent it *AND* you are expecting this particular attachment is a sound
and prudent one. And, of course, you should make sure your e-mail software
is not configured to automatically open attachments!

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 12:53:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 15:52:10 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <65.10f0fc39.27da9c7a-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The place I go to is:

www.urbanlegends.com

It's got a wealth of information on all these hysterical alerts, petitions, 
etc.  However, a good rule of thumb is: if something tells you to send it to 
everyone you know, don't.

Suzanne Ford // who does not forward anything unless it's really funny
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:37:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:36:37 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200103092236.QAA22677-AT-
kodos.svc.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Susan R. Lorand wrote:  

>almost any message that tells you to forward it to everyone should *not*
>be forwarded.  instead, please check a reliable source to see if the
>alleged viruses are for real.  most warnings are themselves another sort
>of virus - they persuade people of good will to waste bandwidth by
>forwarding them, and cause unnecessary worry.
>
>perhaps someone else can suggest more websites for checking up on virus
>warnings?

http://HoaxBusters.ciac.org/
operated by the Department of Energy.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:08:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 16:55:59 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010309.190617.-79433.11.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:38:35 -0600 Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
writes:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Susan R. Lorand <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
> 
> <<perhaps someone else can suggest more websites for checking up on 
> virus
> warnings?>>

There's also the Urban Legends website: www.urbanlegends.com.

Dawn Culbertson


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:30:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 20:29:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Virus Alert
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0103092028400.10610-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Susan R. Lorand wrote:
> perhaps someone else can suggest more websites for checking up on virus
> warnings?
>
> --susie lorand
>

 The Symantec Anti-Virus Research Center at

http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/hoax.html

  And, of course, SARC also has news on real viruses and worms.


Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:14:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:14:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Yiddish Country Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010311211416.10965.qmail-AT-
web2103.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



This listing reminds me of the year (early 70s) at
Pinewoods when Marshall Barron began doing the same sort of
thing with names of campers. Mine, of course, was "Lyrl Me
Beyond Thee."

--Lyrl Ahern

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 13:24:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:24:16 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Personalized dances, was Yiddish
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F33nBy2NGzTK1Fj4seH0000669c-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

And, of course, when I first started dancing, I always perked up (read: 
panicked) when they announced . . . "Orly's Baffled."
--Orly Krasner
okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:08:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:08:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Personalized dances, was Yiddish
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010312030803.25611.qmail-AT-
web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

--- Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> And, of course, when I first started dancing, I always perked
> up (read: panicked) when they announced . . . "Orly's
Baffled."
> 

You very well may have been baffled.

Andy

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 01:18:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 04:14:36 -0500
From: MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Disobedience, a book
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010312.041457.-205521.7.marthaCD-AT-
juno.com>
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	I am reading a book publishe in October, 2000 by Jane Hamilton, an
author from Wisconsin 
and I am still relatively near the beginning but Iwanted to share this
with
 you all as soon as possible. The characters are eerily familiar. There
is a pianist
who plays for ECD with a group called "Juice of Barley", a group which
plays 
the tunes with many inventive variations;  she has also played  piano for

"The Civil War" series.
 	She   plays every summer at a camp called Silverpines in
Massachussetts. 
The narrator describess a  teen named Lily, whose father plays "Hurdy
Gurdy" 
at camp and teaches ritual dances to the kids.
	The last thing I read before running to my PC to send this message 
involved greeting on the first day of camp and raccoons.  
Is anyone else familiar with this book?

Martha
Martha Davey   25-14 37 Street, Astoria, NY 11103
(718) 278-4389  To send a fax call first.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:44:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 11:32:49 +0000
From: Mary Stafford <mes-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Disobedience"
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01C0AAE9.014E8980-AT-
mes.world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Martha-

Helene Cornelius mentioned the book to me with some amusement a while ago. I've read it, and have to say I found it amusing also, though I understand the woman who is clearly the model for the wife who plays piano considers it "bizarre"- small wonder, since, except for the details of her musicianship and the camp connection, there is nothing at all of the real person's character in the fictional one. I did find myself wondering who outside another attendee at Pinewoods would understand the brief reference to the "Welcoming Committee" at the entrance.

Helene tells me the author has attended Pinewoods.

Mary Stafford
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:15:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:13:11 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: KETTLEWELL at HALSWAY
To: EngCountryDance <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <004801c0ab20$60b12860$8059893e-AT-
default>
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On his way to Halsway Manor, Somerset, Dr David Kettlewell, folk musician,
musicologist, composer, is coming to England at Easter, to a conference at
Canterbury, Kent Univ. His address is entitled 'Learning with Leonardo',
implying doing lots of different artistic things to produce a harmonic
whole, with emphasis on activities and insights which solve problems and
make sense to people today,
 ... and then to spend several days at Halsway Manor, Somerset, UK.

The Special Mid-Week April House Party at the Manor,DATES 2nd - 6th APRIL
2001will be nostalgic for many. On this wonderful occasion we are delighted
to welcome, for the first time in many years, Dr David Kettlewell, author,
composer and musicologist extraordinaire.  In the 1970's David worked for
EFDSS as a field officer and met a great many people and was an inspiration
to fellow dancers, musicians and singers. He plays a whole range of styles
of music including Playford, on a whole range of musical instruments
including harpsichord, harp. (I have heard him play dulcimer and clarinet
too,)  He presents his ideas using modern technology.

We are preparing workshops which will entertain and allow the participants
to learn what they can do and discover more about
themselves in the process.  This will be interesting, lighthearted and fun
with activities in the evenings.
-----------------------------
Provisional programme;
"From Notre Dame to the Beatles"
- a practical experience of the history of harmony - how the weaving
together of separate melodies gave rise to today's 'chordal' thinking

"Mr. Porter's Delight"
- new repertoire for folk players - aires from John Play ford (and
others) as the English counterpart to Carolan

Playford Plays Playford
- a baroque view of the music for Playford dances

" 'Tis the quire do have to sing ... "
- Hardy, harmony singing, shape-note hymns, the links with west-gallery
music and Paul Simon

"Musica Humana"
- finding the voice within you - especially for those who believe they
can't sing

"Practical Musicology"
- knowing what you do - and how doing what you know!

"You CAN draw and paint"
- integrating the common elements of mediaeval manuscript illumination,
renaissance frescos and baroque folk painting, to create something practical
and uniquely your own

"The Striking Sound"
- reflections on dulcimers and dulcimer-players from many places and times

"Multimedia on the Mac"
- practical thoughts about using today's technology for communicating
culture and education
---------------
Halsway Manor, (pronounced locally as "haulzee") Crowcombe, Somerset, UK.,
(off M5) is the unique residential folk music centre devoted to folk music,
dance and song, on the slopes of the Quantock Hills (AONB), where we shall
have the use of the ballroom, library and lounge, including bar. Stands in
its own grounds and gardens with car park. (see website
www.halswaymanor.com)

The SPECIALLY REDUCED fees for 4 days mid-week full-board in the manor will
be £99 each (for those prepared to share in large 4/5 bed rooms, £106 each
in twins/double rooms, £114 each in singles.  En-suite £5 per person per
night extra in mews only.This is a brand new event and we need 15 applicants
minimum to run the course.
Deposits of £20 ($30) required now to reserve a place.  Please book now to
avoid disappointment. (see website www.halswaymanor.com )for booking form
and further info.
Email me (alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk)
Regards AlanC


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 10:22:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:17:49 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Disobedience"
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010312.132039.-794277.3.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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The author of this book is Jane Hamilton, author of the celebrated "Map
of the World," (an Oprah book club selection, no less), among others.

Jane is an enthusiastic dancer from Wisconsin, who has indeed attended
Pinewoods many times (Family Week).  She even danced at the Brattleboro
Ball last November!  

As we say in parts of New York, she's "good people," so we can buy and
read her books with enthusiasm!

Gene
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Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 12:47:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:29:53 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010312.154316.-794277.9.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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Dear friends,

Below is the consolidated list of requests for Bare Necessities'
forthcoming CD of set dances.

If you know of currently available, suitable recordings (proper tempo,
times through, character) for any of these, please let me know!  I've
already eliminated requested dances with recordings I do know about.  

The Boston Centre committee, the band and I will review the list to make
the final selections for the recording sessions beginning April 10.

Thank you very much!

Gene

Amazed Geneticist, The
Archbishop, The
Argeers
Arrival from Holland		(New Wine in Old Bottles)
Astonished Archaeologist, The
Bare Necessities
Braes of Dornoch
Cats Cradle			(A Charles Bolton dance)
Christmas at Zeist
Circe's Charm			(A Charles Bolton dance)
Come Let's Be Merry
Corporation, The
Dunant House Waltz (aka Nel's Farewell)
Dusty Miller
Enchanted Place, An
Enrichez-vous
Fain I Would
Happily Emma After
Happy Captive, The
Hard Times			(New Wine in Old Bottles - a minuet).
Hey Boys, Up Go We!
Hortonia
Hunsdon House
Hunsdon Porch
Hyde Park
Jovial Beggars, The
Juliana
Kendal Ghyll
Kettledrum			(Playford -Sharp)
Kings Crown
King's Penny, The
Kitty Alone
Lasses of Portsmouth, The
Leah's Waltz
Lord of Carnarvon's Jig
Love and a Bottle
Love's Triumph
Maid Peeped Out at theWindow
Mayfair
Measure for Margaret
Merry Merry Milkmaids
Mrs. Pomeroy's Pavane
Mundesse			(Playford - Sharp)
New Milk Maids Bob		(A Brian Wedgbury interpretation)
New Year's Day in the Morning
Night Peece, The (from Playford 1st edition)
Nonesuch
Nonsuch Cottage
Oil the Locks
Once a night
Once I Loved a Maiden Fair	(Playford)
Parson Upon Dorothy		(Playford - see also Retreads 6)
Parsons Farewell
Patrick's Waltz
Pink and lilies
Put on thy smock a monday
Randolph Farewell
Red and All Red		(Thompson - Retread 5)
Rufty Tufty
Saint Margaret's Hill
Scotch Cap
Shropshire Lass
Silver Faulken, The		(Playford)
Since first I saw your face
Sir Watkin's Jig
Symphony, The
Terpsichore
Trip Over Tweed
Trip to Hexham
Trip to Macclesfield		(A Brian Wedgbury dance)
Twins, The
Upon the Morning Breeze  (Gary Roodman dance to Staines Morris)
Whirlygig's Last Bow, The
Winifred's knot
Winter Solstice (with jig tune)
Zephyr and Neptune


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:16:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:22:11 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mme. de Pompadour
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007201c0ab3a$83cd5a20$1dedadce-AT-
default>
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References: <20010312.154316.-794277.9.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

I just finished reading Nancy Mitford's _Madame de Pompadour_, and as usual
when people are writing about that period in French history, she says that
the Versailles crowd had several balls a week, but she didn't talk about
what they danced at the balls.

Can anyone tell me?  (I ask this confidently; I'll bet several people on the
list can.)  Had ECD made it over there, and was the Court doing it?  Were
they simply minuetting like mad?  Did they do the Hokey Pokey and the Frug,
or were they all pointing their fingers in the air and going "beep, beep"?

Marian Phillips

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:32:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:37:59 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Toot, toot!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A0D.00771A3D.00-AT-
Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I think that there must have been minuets, along with bourrees, rigaudons,
gavottes, gigues, etc. Yet I find the idea of La Pompadour and her friends
zigging to tunes like La Donna del' Estate's "Fille vilaine, fille triste"
charming, and even preferable.
Seriously, my weak understanding is that the sort of dance notated by Feuillet
would have been at its height in Pompadour's youth--but that there was also
substantial cross-pollination with English traditions, as witnessed by, just to
name one example, Female Sayler/Matelotte.

G

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:17:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:15:25 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AADC90D.B1F864CB-AT-
flash.net>
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References: <20010312.154316.-794277.9.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

I don't dance all of these, so the speed and/or repeat structures may be
off.

New York Renaissance Band; Country Capers:
> Argeers
> Kettledrum                      (Playford -Sharp)
> Maid Peeped Out at theWindow
> Merry Merry Milkmaids
> Mundesse                        (Playford - Sharp)
> Rufty Tufty

Orange and Blue; The English Dancing Master, Vol 1:
(I believe this one may be out of print now.)
> Hey Boys, Up Go We!
> Parsons Farewell

Orange and Blue; The English Dancing Master, Vol 2:
> Fain I Would
> Merry Merry Milkmaids

Orange and Blue; The English Dancing Master, Vol 4:
> Night Peece, The (from Playford 1st edition)

--Charlene

-- 
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first
thought of.  --Burt Bacharach (b. 1929) U.S. composer
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
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Twentieth Centuries
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:33:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:37:57 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mme. de Pompadour
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010313.153048.-124555.20.dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:22:11 -0800 Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
writes:
> I just finished reading Nancy Mitford's _Madame de Pompadour_, and as 
> usual
> when people are writing about that period in French history, she 
> says that
> the Versailles crowd had several balls a week, but she didn't talk 
> about
> what they danced at the balls.
> 
> Can anyone tell me?  (I ask this confidently; I'll bet several 
> people on the
> list can.)  Had ECD made it over there, and was the Court doing it?  
> Were
> they simply minuetting like mad?  Did they do the Hokey Pokey and 
> the Frug,
> or were they all pointing their fingers in the air and going "beep, 
> beep"?

Balls during that time generally consisted of both "contredances" (i.e
ECD-type dances), which were done by everyone, and dances for solos,
couples or small groups which were done in front of the whole company.
Most of these dances were based on various forms such as the bourree,
minuet, etc. The contredances were always done after the "dances a deux."
I know that during the 17th cent. the balls usually began with a
processional of some kind, but don't know if this was still true during
the days of Pompadour. Beep beep??

Dawn Culbertson
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:45:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:50:47 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mme. de Pompadour at Club 54
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A0E.0072C882.00-AT-
Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I see now that Ms Phillips and I have been obscure. "Beep beep....yeah....toot
toot!" is the tag of a disco song (hence pointing one's fingers in the air): I
remember it as the tag of a Donna Summer song (hence my laborious joke about La
Donna etc., etc.) but could be wrong.
At any rate, we were both imagining the French court doing anachronistic and
absurd things...*that's* what was meant by "beep beep" et alia.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 14:46:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:53:06 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Impulse Flying
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20010313174805.017dbcb0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Help.  Given this morning's British Airways ad, I'm now the (proud) owner
of a round-trip ticket to London for the Playford Conference Weekend.  Does
anyone know if there are still spaces available at the conference?  If not,
I'm the one with the backpack peeking through the windows of the House.
Seriously, I'd be very grateful for any info on what's going on.  Email me
at mls-AT-
panix.com.  Thanks!
Impulsively yours,
Sharon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:25:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:24:56 +0000
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Impulse Flying
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <009901c0ac14$d364dce0$1445193e-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sharon, if you cannot get into the house , come and see us in somerset at
Halsway Manor we have an entire mansion, folk music centre empty for you!!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 13 March 2001 22:46
Subject: Impulse Flying


Help.  Given this morning's British Airways ad, I'm now the (proud) owner
of a round-trip ticket to London for the Playford Conference Weekend.  Does
anyone know if there are still spaces available at the conference?  If not,
I'm the one with the backpack peeking through the windows of the House.
Seriously, I'd be very grateful for any info on what's going on.  Email me
at mls-AT-
panix.com.  Thanks!
Impulsively yours,
Sharon


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:52:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:51:27 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: mk-AT-
fennessy.fsnet.co.uk
Message-ID: <99.11f1078a.27e01a8f-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Gene,
    Interesting list!
    Just a few comments:
    The Archbishop - on Playford from the New World (The Assembly Players)
    An Enchanted Place, Enrichez Vous, A Trip to Macclesfield and Winter 
Solstice are all recorded and in process for issue on The Assembly Players' 
Cd this summer (launch date June 30th) - provisional title "Old World - New 
Dance".
    Hey Boys, Up go We! - is this Cuckolds all a row? If so, fine; but if it 
is what the Kennedys published under the title "The Way to Norwich", then it 
is on "Purcell, Encore!"
    All the 24 Apted dances were well recorded by Jim Coleman and Denis Smith 
on two Lp's, (as were all the dances in EFDS New Series no. 1 on one disc) 
and may still be available from EFDSS. I think the 3 Orange and Blue PLA 
recordings (and the Ranchers' one) were reissued on Cassette, which would 
still be available.
    Various of the list are on The West Kirby Bands' recordings: Terpsichore, 
Sir Watkins Jig, The Amazed Geneticist, Hunsdon House.
    SOMEBODY has recorded Bare Necessities, but I cannot think who at this 
moment!
                                                            Nicolas. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:17:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:07:53 -0500
From: franch-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Birthday Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010313.231323.-429635.11.franch-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Any list members who are in the Baltimore area on March 31st are most
welcome to attend the following.  It will be mostly contras, I should
warn, as that is the majority of the Baltimore dance community, but we'll
probably do about 6 English dances.

Eileen and Mike Franch Invite You to A Birthday Dance to celebrate their
60th birthdays and how much the dance community has meant to them for the
past 25-plus years.
 
Saturday March 31, 2001
St. Mark’s-on-the-Hill Parish Hall
1620 Reisterstown Rd., Pikesville, Md. USA
(1.5 miles inside Beltway)

6:00 Pot Luck, 8:00 Dance

Calling by Susan Taylor (contras) and Carl Friedman (English)
Music by Marty Taylor, Steve Hickman, and Michael Friedman
Children, Friends, and New Dancers Welcome

RSVPs helpful so we’ll know how many to plan for.
Contact us at (410) 889-3252 or franch-AT-
juno.com

No material gifts, please.  Let your presence by your gift. (We also
could use some help with set up/take down)
________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:18:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:25:00 -0800
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mme. de Pompadour at Club 54
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <040b01c0ac3e$bd25e120$fceaadce-AT-
default>
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Graham Christian writes:
I remember it as the tag of a Donna Summer song (hence my laborious joke
about La
> Donna etc., etc.) but could be wrong.<

If it was laborious, the labor was not wasted.  I actually couldn't remember
which disco tune the "beep beep!" came from, but as soon as I translated
"Fille vilaine, fille triste" I cracked up -- and the song came flooding
back.  I think the whole French court would have been at home at Club 54 . .
. although they might have thought it a bit tame (I'm also reading _At Home
With The Marquis de Sade_ right now).

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:44:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 03:20:53 -0500
From: "Dawn C. Culbertson" <dcculb-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mme. de Pompadour at Club 54
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:50:47 -0500 Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
writes:
> 
> 
> I see now that Ms Phillips and I have been obscure. "Beep 
> beep....yeah....toot
> toot!" is the tag of a disco song (hence pointing one's fingers in 
> the air): I
> remember it as the tag of a Donna Summer song 

You're right. It was a recurring tag for Ms Summer's "Bad Girls." (See, I
know about other stuff besides ECD once in a while.. :-) )

Dawn Culbertson


________________________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:29:38 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Dear Nic,

The Apted recordings by Jim and Denis are no longer available. One would
have thought that the EFDSS would have re-issued these on cassette/CD by
now!!

Bare Necessities was recorded by Bare Necessities, of course.

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:34:05 PST
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:31:36 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: BN vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In my haste to send off yesterday evening I failed to spot Juliana on Gene's 
list. This is on The Assembly Players' CD 'Dance and Danceability'
                                            Nicolas B.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:48:43 PST
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:45:37 -0500
From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Archbishop, The
  "Face the Music" (cassette) by Two's Company
Argeers      
  EFDSS Playford series
Bare Necessities
  This is already recorded - by Bare Necessities!
Come Let's Be Merry
  Wild Thyme  CM017
Dunant House Waltz
  Dutch Crossing  (CD) Dutch Folk Dance Society (NVS).
  Please don't perpetuate the "also known as Nel's Farewell".
  The dance and tune are both called "Dunant House Waltz", and I don't
think people have any right to rename my dance!
Enrichez-vous
  Dutch Crossing
Fain I Would
  EFDSS Playford series
Hey Boys, Up Go We!
  EFDSS Playford series
Hunsdon House
  EFDSS Playford series
Jovial Beggars, The
  Maggot Pie (double cassette by Wild Thyme)
Lord of Carnarvon's Jig
  EFDSS Playford series
Mayfair
  EFDSS Playford series - the tune is Grimstock
Merry Merry Milkmaids
  EFDSS Playford series
Mundesse                        (Playford - Sharp)
  EFDSS Playford series
Night Peece, The (from Playford 1st edition)
  EFDSS Playford series
Nonesuch
  EFDSS Playford series
Once a night
  Apted Dances (EFDSS record - don't know if this is available on cassette)
Parsons Farewell
  EFDSS Playford series
Rufty Tufty
  EDFSS Playford series
Saint Margaret's Hill
  This is also already recorded by Bare Necessities
Scotch Cap
  EFDSS Playford series
Symphony, The  (usually known over here as "Ay, Me")
  EFDSS Playford series
Twins, The
  Wild Thyme CM017 (record) - don't know if this is available on cassette

Looks as if you should get the EFDSS Playford series, Gene!  These four
records of "The English Dancing Master", PLA1-4 (now available on cassette)
are well worth buying.  I'm not so keen on volume 3, by the Rancers, but
the other three volumes are by Orange and Blue (whom you'll be working with
at the final dance of the Playford Conference) and they're great.  In fact
my introduction to Playford was their first two records, rather than
dancing.

Maybe you should also buy "What was that dance" - a book listing thousands
of dances in the English Tradition, compiled by Freda McIntyre and Bob
Howe.  It lists titles, formations, music, source and recordings.  I have
an old copy (1992) with over 3,000 dances, but I know it's been updated a
lot since then, and Freda told me last week that she's working on the
latest version.

This book and all the recordings mentioned (if still available) can
probably be bought from Cotswold Music Society, run by Shane and Julia Day
of the band Keeping Thyme (ex Wild Thyme).  A good stock of Folk dance and
music material, including many items published by Cotswold Music
themselves.  I've always found them helpful, friendly and knowledgeable -
they even take American checks!  Email them at cotswoldmusic-AT-
ndirect.co.uk
and ask for specific items or a catalogue.  Or view their catalogue online
at http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~cotswoldmusic

No, they're not paying me a commission.

No doubt four other people will already have written to the list with this
information, but I read the Digest once a day rather than sitting at the
keyboard ready to pounce!

Colin Hume
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:57:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:52:20 +0100
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: RE: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <LPBBKMBNMCGKNDDELPCMIEMPCNAA.antony-AT-
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Gene Murrow wrote:

> If you know of currently available, suitable recordings (proper tempo,
> times through, character) for any of these, please let me know!  I've
> already eliminated requested dances with recordings I do know about.
>
Amazed Geneticist, The is recorded by the West Kirby Band on "Not Quite
Shaw"
Archbishop, The is recorded by The Assembly Players on "Playford from the
New World"
Argeers is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master" volume 2
Bare Necessities is recorded by Bare Necessities on "Bare Necessities"
Cats Cradle is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "For Your Pleasure" Vol. 4
Circe's Charm	 is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "Optimistic Dances" Vol. 3
Come Let's Be Merry is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Come Let's be Merry" and
by Step Stately on "Two and Three Couple Dances..."
Corporation, The is recorded by Step Stately on "Two and Three Couple
Dances..." and on a record of Apted Dances
Dunant House Waltz is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Dutch Crossing"
Dusty Miller is recorded by Bare Necessities on "Nightcap"
Enchanted Place, An is recorded by Two's Company on "All Alive" and by the
Assembly Players on "New Playford from the Old World" (CD to be published in
July 2001)
Enrichez-vous is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Dutch Crossing" and by the
Assembly Players on "New Playford from the Old World"
Fain I Would  is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master" volume 2
Happy Captive, The is recorded on an LP of Apted Dances (a CD reissue is
being prepared)
Hey Boys, Up Go We! is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master"
volume 1
Hunsdon House is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "For Your Pleasure" Vol. 1 and
by the West Kirby Band on "Not Quite Shaw"
Hyde Park  is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "For Your Pleasure" Vol. 2
Jovial Beggars, The is virtually the same as "Arrival from Holland" so the
sme recording could be used for both dances
Juliana is recorded by the Kenton Ramblers on "The Next Dance is..."
King's Penny, The is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Maggot Pie"
Lasses of Portsmouth, The is recorded by the Journeymen on an EP and on an
LP of Apted Dances (a CD reissue is being prepared)
Lord of Carnarvon's Jig is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "For Your Pleasure"
Vol. 2
Love and a Bottle is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "For Your Pleasure" Vol. 3
Love's Triumph is recorded by Step Stately on "Two and Three Couple
Dances..."
Mayfair is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master" volume 1
Merry Merry Milkmaids is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master"
volume 2
Mrs Pomeroy's Pavane is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master"
volume 3
New Year's Day in the Morning is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "Optimistic
Dances" Vol. 4
Night Peece, The is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master" volume 4
Nonesuch has many good recordings including one by Bare Necessities
Nonsuch Cottage is recorded by Peter Jenkins on "Optimistic Dances" Vol. 4
Once a night is recorded by the Journeymen on an EP and on an LP of Apted
Dances
Parsons Farewell is recorded on the LP "The English Dancing Master" volume 1
Saint Margaret's Hill is recorded by Step Stately on "Two and Three Couple
Dances..." and by Bare Necessities on "Take a Dance"
Shropshire Lass is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Wild Thyme plays Fallibroome"
Sir Watkin's Jig is recorded by the West Kirby Band on "Playford Plus"
Terpsichore is recorded by the West Kirby Band on "Not Quite Playford" and
also by Peter Jenkins
Trip to Hexham is recorded by Two's Company on "People and Places"
Trip to Macclesfield  is recorded by the Assembly Players on "New Playford
from the Old World"
Twins, The is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Come Let's be Merry"
Zephyr and Neptune is recorded by Two's Company on "Face the Music"

All the above are perfectly usable recordings.
I hope Bare Necessities will concentrate more on unrecorded material.
When I buy a CD, my first thoughts are whether there is NEW material on it
and I regret that that has not been the case much on recent CDs by Bare
Necessities with the result that I haven't felt the need to buy any of the
series so far.

Antony Heywood
The Netherlands

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:46:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:40:37 +0000
From: Alan Williams <Alan.Williams-AT-
oaklands.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Impulse Flying
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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I emailed david wilson yesterday, and had a negative reply about full
weekend tickets - there might perhaps still be day or ball/ dance tickets,
but I should enquire immediately:

david.wilson28-AT-
ntlworld.com

Maybe there's a reserved transatlantic quota? 

Good luck &
Kind regards
	Alan

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Sharon Green [SMTP:mls-AT-
panix.com]
> Sent:	13 March 2001 22:53
> To:	ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject:	Impulse Flying
> 
> Help.  Given this morning's British Airways ad, I'm now the (proud) owner
> of a round-trip ticket to London for the Playford Conference Weekend.
> Does
> anyone know if there are still spaces available at the conference?  If
> not,
> I'm the one with the backpack peeking through the windows of the House.
> Seriously, I'd be very grateful for any info on what's going on.  Email me
> at mls-AT-
panix.com.  Thanks!
> Impulsively yours,
> Sharon

--Boundary_(ID_W+13rpfJhk1yrhh2YxInJA)
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<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
<TITLE>RE: Impulse Flying</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I emailed david wilson yesterday, and had a negative reply about full weekend tickets - there might perhaps still be day or ball/ dance tickets, but I should enquire immediately:</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">david.wilson28-AT-
ntlworld.com</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Maybe there's a reserved transatlantic quota? </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Good luck &amp;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Kind regards</FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Alan</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">From:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Sharon Green [SMTP:mls-AT-
panix.com]</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Sent:&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">13 March 2001 22:53</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU</FONT>
<BR><B><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></B> <FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">Impulse Flying</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Help.&nbsp; Given this morning's British Airways ad, I'm now the (proud) owner</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">of a round-trip ticket to London for the Playford Conference Weekend.&nbsp; Does</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">anyone know if there are still spaces available at the conference?&nbsp; If not,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">I'm the one with the backpack peeking through the windows of the House.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Seriously, I'd be very grateful for any info on what's going on.&nbsp; Email me</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">at mls-AT-
panix.com.&nbsp; Thanks!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Impulsively yours,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Sharon</FONT>
</P>
</UL>
</BODY>
</HTML>

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:00:17 PST
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:59:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103140955370.12781-100000-AT-
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On Mon, 12 Mar 2001, Gene Murrow wrote:

> Below is the consolidated list of requests for Bare Necessities'
> forthcoming CD of set dances.
> 
> If you know of currently available, suitable recordings (proper tempo,
> times through, character) for any of these, please let me know!  I've
> already eliminated requested dances with recordings I do know about.  

> Bare Necessities

Isn't that on the "Bare Necessities" tape/CD(?) by Bare Necessities?

> Dunant House Waltz (aka Nel's Farewell)

There's a nice recording of that on the "Dutch Crossing" CD.

> Enrichez-vous

Also nicely done on the Dutch Crossing CD.

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 07:53:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:59:08 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mme. de Pompadour at Club 54
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A0F.0058159A.00-AT-
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Well, it is very gratifying that my labor was not vain, and that I made
*somebody* laugh, at any rate. At one point in the staged version of her song
"Vogue," La Madonna herself turns up in pseudo-Pompadour/Antoinette garb--so
these worlds have collided before.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled English Country Dance discussion.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:20:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:15:00 +0100
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: RE: Bare Necessities Vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Graham Knight wrote

> The Apted recordings by Jim and Denis are no longer available. One would
> have thought that the EFDSS would have re-issued these on cassette/CD by
> now!!
>

There is a move by the Claygate club to reissue these on CD.
They have already checked the copyright situation and located the masters.
They are looking into costing via Red Fish Studio in Holland
http://www.redfishstudio.nl (operated by my son).

Antony Heywood
The Netherlands

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:21:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:22:19 -0500
From: Susan <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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With all due respect and appreciation for the both the works and the members
of the other musical groups who have previously recorded some of the
material suggested for the upcoming BN 5 volume, it seems to me that not
only content but style and artistic merit are worthy considerations in the
esoteric world of ECD music. And Bare Necessities has always come through
glowingly in these areas.

As for "Bare Necessities" having previously been recorded by the group, I
have been told that Bare Necessities once considered including this
eponymous dance on each of their albums,  as a kind of trademark - with a
different, but danceable, approach each time. Interesting idea.

For what it's worth, I'd like to see "Broom; the Bonny, Bonny Broom"
recorded by BN, regardless of previous versions. Their approach and
rendition of this simple but poignant melody is right on target, at least to
my ears and dancing feet!

Susan Booker,
looking forward to dancing
 to the music of Bare Necessities
 at the March 25 Nashville Ball!


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:23:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:22:50 -0500
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, mk-AT-
fennessy.fsnet.co.uk
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Dear Nicolas & Gene,
    Bare Necessities did "Bare Necessities" on cassette.  Putting it on CD is
probably a good idea.  Duplication on CD of some of this material is warranted if
it makes it more accessible to people this side of the pond -- as well as that
side.

SallenNic-AT-
aol.com wrote (in part):

>     SOMEBODY has recorded Bare Necessities, but I cannot think who at this
> moment!

Albert Blank
102 Loring Avenue
Pelham, NY 10803-2014

Tel. 914 738-7678
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:27:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:32:46 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A0F.005B2B30.00-AT-
Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
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Let me, in my rude, uncouth way, put in a word for:
Leather Lake House

Love's Triumph

The Ragg



Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:47:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:47:20 +0000
From: Dr Paul Davis <paul.davis-AT-
computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <EXECMAIL.1010314164720.H-AT-
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aol.com>

Bare Necessities did Bare Necessities on CD! - least that's how I've 
got it.
Paul

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 
11:22:50 -0500 "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Nicolas & Gene,
>     Bare Necessities did "Bare Necessities" on cassette.  Putting it on
> CD is
> probably a good idea.  Duplication on CD of some of this material is 
> warranted if
> it makes it more accessible to people this side of the pond -- as well 
> as that
> side.
> 
> SallenNic-AT-
aol.com wrote (in part):
> 
> >     SOMEBODY has recorded Bare Necessities, but I cannot think who at
> this
> > moment!
> 
> Albert Blank
> 102 Loring Avenue
> Pelham, NY 10803-2014
> 
> Tel. 914 738-7678
> e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
> 
> 
> 

-------------------
Dr Paul Davis
paul.davis-AT-
oucs.ox.ac.uk
01865 283414

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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:36:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:31:52 -0500
From: pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5/Bare Necessities
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01031412315246-AT-
tedcrane.com>
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Paul wrote:
>Bare Necessities did Bare Necessities on CD!...
following Al Blank's comment:
>Bare Necessities did "Bare Necessities" on cassette...

Actually, Bare Necessities recorded Bare Necessities on
an LP (remember those things?  Large black disks that 
could get scratched, and turned into big potatoe chips
if you left them in your car in the sun?)
That earlier recording has been reissued on CD & cassette.

I _was_ a little surprised to see that one on Gene's list of
"Have these dances been recorded".  Especially since this
is a Bare Necessities project...

-Pamela Goddard
Ithaca, NY
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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:50:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:35:40 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Recordings
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010314.134003.-974885.21.gmurrow-AT-
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Thanks to everyone who responded on- and off-list to my request for known
recordings of dances requested for Volume 5 ("At Home") of the Bare
Necessities ECD series.  As producer I believe it is part of my job to
avoid needless duplication, thereby maximizing the precious resources of
our international ECD community.  In my own dance calling and teaching I
happen not to use recordings.  Consequently I must depend on other
knowledgeable people, of which there are many on this list (as others
posting various queries have also found).  I really appreciate your help.

This latest exercise has raised an intesting issue.  All the dances on
the list I posted last week were *requests*.  This means that one or more
callers/teachers had asked that the dance music be recorded, which
implies that they were likely unaware of or could not readily obtain the
many, many existing recordings which many of you enumerated for me. 
That's a problem!  I know the expense of money and effort required to
produce such recordings, and I think it's a shame that folks who could be
using and enjoying them don't know about them or can't get them easily,
and the folks who invested the time and money aren't recouping something
on their investment.  

In his posting, Colin mentioned "What Was That Dance," a book listing
thousands of dances in the English Tradition with sources and available
recordings, compiled by Freda McIntyre and Bob Howe.  Let's all encourage
Ms. McIntyre and Mr. Howe to keep their listing current, and to make it
readily available through CDSS, Cotswold Music, and others.  Callers,
teachers, dancers, and record producers(;-)) should consult such
resources regularly!  There are other useful compilations which should be
similarly supported.  Perhaps it's time for an all-encompassing "ECD
Portal" on the Web! (hey... sounds like a great idea for a new dot-com
company!... wonder how the market for tech IPO's is these days?... oh,
wait... ooops...).

Finally, IMHO, just because a recording of a dance already exists doesn't
necessarily mean it should not be re-recorded, though it should raise a
warning flag.  Tastes change, and tastes vary.  Some people have asked
specifically for "the Bare Necessities version" of a dance while knowing
of the existence of other readings.  Conversely, some find BN's work not
to their taste, and patiently wait for another recording of a particular
dance.  At the moment, we can be thankful for a healthy ECD "scene" with
new dances, new tunes, new bands, and new recordings all finding a place.
 As long as we're mindful of what we're all doing (thank you again, Alan,
for this list), and we make sure our decisions are informed and not
negligent or capricious, I think this art we all love so well and all who
contribute to it will continue to flourish.

Gene
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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:00:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:58:40 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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flash.net>
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Colin Hume wrote:

> Looks as if you should get the EFDSS Playford series, Gene!  These four
> records of "The English Dancing Master", PLA1-4 (now available on cassette)
> are well worth buying.  I'm not so keen on volume 3, by the Rancers, but
> the other three volumes are by Orange and Blue (whom you'll be working with
> at the final dance of the Playford Conference) and they're great.  In fact
> my introduction to Playford was their first two records, rather than
> dancing.

According the the CDSS web page, Vol 1 has been discontinued.  Is it
still available elsewhere?

--Charlene

-- 
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first
thought of.  --Burt Bacharach (b. 1929) U.S. composer
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
mailto:findbook-AT-
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=====
For Sale:  Earnshaw, Pat; Lace in Fashion:  From the Sixteenth to the
Twentieth Centuries
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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:23:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:23:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010314141510.22326G-100000-AT-
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On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Antony Heywood wrote:

> Enrichez-vous is recorded by Wild Thyme on "Dutch Crossing" and by the
> Assembly Players on "New Playford from the Old World"

There is a lovely version of Enrichez-Vous on Childsplay's "The Great
Waltz", however it is the only ecd on the cd.  

For groups looking for music but don't have much money to spend, the
following is a helpful resource :
http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/CD-offer.html

The recordings are not nearly so lush as BN, but if it's that or not
dance...

Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many tapes,
in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable time,
so again, only cd's will cut it for me.


Christine

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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:43:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:00:31 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5/Bare Necessities
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010314.164026.-974885.23.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:31:52 -0500 pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
writes:
> ... I _was_ a little surprised to see that one on Gene's list of
> "Have these dances been recorded".  Especially since this
> is a Bare Necessities project...

Collating too many lists from too many sources too late at night... my
apologies.

(Of course we could implement our plan to re-record those on shawms,
krummhorns, sackbuts, and serpents!)

Gene
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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 15:24:21 PST
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:30:40 -0600
From: Bill McDonald <McDjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001d01c0acd6$976a9fa0$5019bcd0-AT-
laptop>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Oops.  Fat-fingers unite!

Let's try this again.

Christina wrote

Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many tapes,
in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable time,
so again, only cd's will cut it for me.

For what it's worth, I've had very good luck out here in the hinterlands using a laptop and MP3 sound files.  All the MP3 players available on the net (many are free) allow you to quickly configure an evening's dance card and, at least in the case of Winamp (www.winamp.com), you can easily jump to anyplace in the tune with just a couple of simple keystrokes.  There's even a built-in fade so you don't just chop the sound off when you need to stop a dance due to a broken set.  Works very nicely--I use the CD/Tape deck only very rarely.

Software is generally available that will allow you to capture your disparate media (tapes, LPs and CDs) into a single, easy-to-use, portable (easier to use than your typical boombox) format via your computer's built-in sound card.  The only hardware needed is the inexpensive 1/4" phono patch cord required to connect between your sound card and the particular media player (tape, CD, LP, etc.) you'll initially use to transfer the music to your laptop.  In the case of both tapes and CDs, I use an inexpensive "Walkman" type player--anything to get the bits in the machine.  An old LP stereo portable picked up at a garage sale is all that's needed (and only for a few hours) to transfer those vinyl favorites.  My software even removes clicks, pops and hiss at the same time!

McDjr


--Boundary_(ID_ll2WLc2nqkiJCx0VUmqKqA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Oops.&nbsp; Fat-fingers 
unite!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Let's try this again.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Christina wrote</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff 
face="Arial Narrow"><EM>Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's 
not on cd, I can't<BR>use it.&nbsp; I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own 
way too many tapes,<BR>in fact), but cannot play them.&nbsp; Even when I could 
play them, as a<BR>teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much 
valuable time,<BR>so again, only cd's will cut it for me.<BR><BR></EM>For what 
it's worth, I've had very good luck out here in the hinterlands using a laptop 
and MP3 sound files.&nbsp; All the MP3 players available on the net (many are 
free) allow you to quickly configure an evening's dance card and, at least in 
the case of Winamp (<A href="http://www.winamp.com">www.winamp.com</A>), you can 
easily jump to anyplace in the tune with just a couple of simple 
keystrokes.&nbsp; There's even a built-in fade so you don't just chop the sound 
off when you need to stop a dance due to a broken set.&nbsp; Works very 
nicely--I use the CD/Tape deck only very rarely.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff 
face="Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Software 
is generally available that will allow you to capture your&nbsp;disparate media 
(tapes, LPs and CDs) into&nbsp;a single, easy-to-use, portable (easier 
to&nbsp;use than your typical boombox)&nbsp;format&nbsp;via your computer's 
built-in sound card.&nbsp; The only hardware needed is the inexpensive 1/4" 
phono patch cord required to connect between your sound card and the particular 
media player (tape, CD, LP, etc.) you'll initially use to transfer the music to 
your laptop.&nbsp; In the case of both tapes and CDs, I use an inexpensive 
"Walkman" type player--anything to get the bits in the machine.&nbsp; An old LP 
stereo portable picked up at a garage sale&nbsp;is all that's needed (and only 
for a few hours) to transfer those vinyl favorites.&nbsp; My software even 
removes clicks, pops and hiss at the same time!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff 
face="Arial Narrow"></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT color=#0000ff 
face="Arial Narrow">McDjr<BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_ll2WLc2nqkiJCx0VUmqKqA)--
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Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:05:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 16:08:55 -0600
From: Bill McDonald <McDjr-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000c01c0acd3$5d99a080$5019bcd0-AT-
laptop>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010314141510.22326G-100000-AT-
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_KLQOdf2EoeUMyTkw41XJpQ)
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Christine wrote:
  Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
  use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many tapes,
  in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
  teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable time,
  so again, only cd's will cut it for me.

--Boundary_(ID_KLQOdf2EoeUMyTkw41XJpQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff face="Arial Narrow">Christine wrote:</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I 
  can't<BR>use it.&nbsp; I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too 
  many tapes,<BR>in fact), but cannot play them.&nbsp; Even when I could play 
  them, as a<BR>teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much 
  valuable time,<BR>so again, only cd's will cut it for 
me.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_KLQOdf2EoeUMyTkw41XJpQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:49:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:48:49 -0500
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5/Bare Necessities
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sprintmail.com>
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tedcrane.com>

I'm deeply grateful to all you wonderful folk who've told me that Bare
Necessities by Bare Necessities on Bare Necessities is available on CD
... especially so because my cherished cassette has mysteriously
vanished.

The citation of Dusty Miller by Bare Necessities on Nightcap refers to a
truly beautiful performance.  The entire album is a delight.  I'm not
sure whether it can be used for dance, that was not the intention of the
album. Has anyone tried it?
Does it work? The rubato, although controlled, might make make it
difficult for musically unsophisticated ears.

Albert Blank

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:43:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:43:09 -0600
From: Deborah Sweet/soc/cas/Okstate <dssweet-AT-
okstate.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <OF2B2D3F4F.BDE45023-ON86256A10.00563E85-AT-
cis.okstate.edu>
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The Waits of Southwark - Silence is Deadly
It's loud & rowdy ECD music *perfectly* arranged for dancing, available 
from the web merchant, The Jester's Court:
http://www.savageresearch.com/jester/waits.html 

  Fain I Would
  [Hey Boys, Up Go We!] Cuckolds All A Row?
  Hyde Park (played twice through the dance)
  Rufty Tufty
  Merry Merry Milkmaids

New York Renaissance Band - Country Capers:
I've done all the following & they are the correct length for dancing:

 Argeers
 Kettledrum 
 Maid Peeped Out at the Window
 Merry Merry Milkmaids
 Rufty Tufty
 Staines Morris for "Upon the Morning Breeze" (Gary Roodman dance to 
Staines Morris)

 This one is too short: 
   Mundesse

The Broadside Band - English Country Dance

  Night Peece, The 
  Faine I Would
  Cuckolds All A Row

One of the Baltimore Consort's CDs (I don't remember which one, alas) has:

  Parsons Farewell
  Scotch Cap

  Parsons Farewell is perfect for dancing, and Scotch Cap is played 4 
times through, so it's easy enough to adapt the dance.

Deborah Sweet

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:34:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:53:18 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3AB0E545.550-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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References: <LPBBKMBNMCGKNDDELPCMIEMPCNAA.antony-AT-
iae.nl>

Antony,

That is all very well that there are recordings but most of those
mentioned are no longer available. Also, who wants vinyl now!!

Also, Colin talks about the EFDSS Playford series. Are we talking PLA
recordings here, Colin? If so Mundesse is not on my cassette version of
the recordings. There is however a recording on the Country Capers CD by
The New York Renaissance Band, with Marshall Barron playing the violin.
Whether this is a danceable version I do not know as I have not tried it
yet. The recording has the dances grouped under headings and have only
recently acquired the ability to fast forward a CD.

Wendy and I are in the process of transferring our recording collection
to minidisc as this gives us the ability to find tracks easily, although
an index is required, without having a great weight to carry. With a
portable player we can hook up to most Club's equipment to call for an
evening.

Graham

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:41:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:39:47 -0800
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: source of Fenterlarick?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20010315203947.0092e694-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Good day all.
does anyone know when and where the dance Fenterlarick, by J. Walker, was
first and originally published?
Thank you very much for any info you can provide.
Giovanni De Amici

for information about ECD in Los Angeles, check out our web page at
www.geocities.com/sbecd



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Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:15:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:11:53 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: source of Fenterlarick?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010315.171444.-1017617.8.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Giovanni,

Fenterlarick was first published in England, 1977, in the "Staffordshire
Silver Collection."  Tune is "Nancy's Delight" by Fred Grimshaw.  

Reprinted in CDSS News Nov/Dec 1990.  N.B.: Tune title *misprinted* as
"Nancy's Fancy."

"Fenterlarick" is the name of a now non-existant hamlet in Cornwall, and
roughly translates from the Cornish as "field spring." 

Gene

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ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:45:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:44:57 -0800 (PST)
From: "J. Beer" <jbintercultural-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mary Kay Friday
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010316004457.24434.qmail-AT-
web1103.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This message is from Tanya, Sandy, and Sam Rotenberg and Ted
Rudofker (They are having email access difficulties.)

                       >>>>>>>>>>>


This email is to let you know that Mary Kay Friday suffered a
massive stroke at the Wednesday night dance in D.C. yesterday.
Her ICU nurse reports that her condition is grave. She is
unconscious, breathing on her own, but not responsive. 

Liz Donaldson is the point person at the hospital. She or
someone else close to the situation will let the ECD list know
if there are any changes in Mary Kay's condition.

We're sorry to report such sad news about a wonderful person who
means so much to many of us.

S&S, T&T


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. 
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:55:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:53:59 -0600
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mary Kay Friday
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010315195325.00a13ec0-AT-
mail.mhtc.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I will add my best wishes to the wishes of many that Mary Kay is resting 
calmly and will recover.

mm
At 04:44 PM 3/15/2001 Thursday, you wrote:


>This message is from Tanya, Sandy, and Sam Rotenberg and Ted
>Rudofker (They are having email access difficulties.)
>
>                        >>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>This email is to let you know that Mary Kay Friday suffered a
>massive stroke at the Wednesday night dance in D.C. yesterday.
>Her ICU nurse reports that her condition is grave. She is
>unconscious, breathing on her own, but not responsive.
>
>Liz Donaldson is the point person at the hospital. She or
>someone else close to the situation will let the ECD list know
>if there are any changes in Mary Kay's condition.
>
>We're sorry to report such sad news about a wonderful person who
>means so much to many of us.
>
>S&S, T&T
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
>http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Mike Mudrey
106 Ravine Road
Mount Horeb, WI53572-1930
608-437-3701

mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net
mike-AT-
mudrey.com


dance connections for Madison, Wisconsin
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/dances.htm

week long festival on Jane Austen  with English Country Dancing
http://www.humanities.wisc.edu/festival/introduction.html

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:09:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:08:54 -0500 (EST)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mary Kay Friday
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <28.128f3c52.27e2ebd6-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear T&T,S&S,
 Do you know where cards can be sent to /for Mary Kay Friday?  Please    know 
that Prayers for her are being said.
    Sandra Linenschmidt (cdny)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:23:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:23:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol 5/Bare Necessities
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <c1.c70dddd.27e2fd3d-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:00:31 -0500 gmurrow-AT-
juno.com writes:

>(Of course we could implement our plan to re-record those on shawms,
>krummhorns, sackbuts, and serpents!)

Which would be neither bare nor necessary, but I encourage you to do it 
anyway.  

Nilos 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 04:29:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 07:27:14 -0800
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mary Kay Friday update
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB230D2.A20E7C12-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <28.128f3c52.27e2ebd6-AT-
aol.com>

Dear Friends,

Here is the message Liz Donaldson sent us late last night:

< I visited Mary Kay this  evening at about 6:30 pm, and unfortunately 
the news  is not good.  She was  put on life support at about 6 pm, 
and the Intensive Care Unit nurse I spoke with said that there is 
extensive brain damage, and that there is swelling now  on the other 
side of her brain.  She  is  still  unresponsive and rests peacefully.

I'll send  more information as  soon  as  I have it.  Keep praying.  
Liz.

Liz Donaldson
4518 Gladwyne Drive, Bethesda, MD 20814  PH: 301 986-1291, email:
liz-AT-
us.net >

Sibley Memorial Hospital is at 5255 Loughboro Road, Washington, D.C. 
20016.  The general phone number is 202 537-4000,  and there's a 
website at http:www.Sibley.org. Visiting hours at the ICU are 11:30-3 
and 5-8.  No more than 2 people may visit at any one time.

I'm sorry to report such difficult news.

Stephanie

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:09:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:09:09 -0500
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mary Kay Friday
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB21075.F425D2D-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <20010316004457.24434.qmail-AT-
web1103.mail.yahoo.com>

Oh my! Please pass on my best wishes for Mary Kay, through Liz. Won't
take up any more space or time.

Ben Stein
dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:41:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 00:42:29 -0500
From: Stu Shapiro <stushapiro-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007401c0aea5$0eda5380$1d54c0d8-AT-
stushapiro>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> And, of course, when I first started dancing, I always perked
> up (read: panicked) when they announced . . . "Orly's
Baffled."
>
Along that line of thought, here are some possible Mondegreens of dances
that will be done at the NYC Playford Ball that Orly will chair.

The dance: Braes of Dornoch
Sounds like: Brace the Door Knock

The Goose and the Gridiron
He Goosed the Gridiron

Up with Aily
Up Your Alley

Never Love Thee More
Never Love Seymour

The Royal Meeting
The Royal Mating.

Hoping Orly will still dance with me.

Stu Shapiro



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 04:55:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 07:53:45 -0800
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mary Kay Friday update
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB38888.ADC3E71F-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <28.128f3c52.27e2ebd6-AT-
aol.com> <3AB230D2.A20E7C12-AT-
boo.net>

Friends,

Here is Liz Donaldson's most recent report from last night (3/16):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's been no change in Mary Kay's condition, she's still on life 
support.  Her brother, Bill Goodman, arrived this evening from 
California, but I have not yet spoken with him..

When I visited the hospital this afternoon I spent  some  time with 
Paul Friday thinking good thoughts of Mary Kay.  Both of us commented 
there seemed less of her here than there was yesterday.

I'll write again tomorrow.  Liz

PS...to those who don't know, Paul is Mary Kay's good friend and
ex-husband.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephanie

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:52:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 16:52:08 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F1010VnkB4ltFlmmlQ000000d57-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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. . . and if we extend the conversation to include typos, we could have had 
"Spring Weeding."  But don't mind me, I'm off to the Westchester Celebration 
of Spring Ball today.  And Stu, if you're there, I'll dance with you!
--Orly Krasner
okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 09:07:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 17:08:14 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3AB399FD.60D5-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <007401c0aea5$0eda5380$1d54c0d8-AT-
stushapiro>

How about Braes of Dornoch sounds like Brazen Doorknobs, for which Wendy
has written a dance.

And finally, The Merry Conceit sounds like American Seat.

Graham

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:36:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:41:27 -0500
From: Diane Schmit <dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fwd: Mary Kay Friday Update 3/17/01
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200103171936.OAA21699-AT-
smtp6.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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A more recent update.... / Sadly, Diane

>From: Liz Donaldson <liz-AT-
us.net>
>Subject: Mary Kay Friday Update 3/17/01
>
>Mary Kay died this morning at 10:15 on St. Patrick's Day.  Her 
>brother Bill Goodman, and friend Paul Friday were with her.
>
>I'll let you know  what the  arrangements are when I hear of  them.
>
>We will all miss you. Goodbye Mary Kay.    Liz
>-- 
>Liz Donaldson
>4518 Gladwyne Drive, Bethesda, MD 20814  PH: 301 986-1291, email: liz-AT-
us.net
> 
Diane Schmit
dschmit-AT-
ix.netcom.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:29:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:30:19 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Mary Kay Friday Update 3/17/01
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b6d978c9871d-AT-
[140.186.54.201]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Thank goodness for her release.  No more horrible fate could have occurred
than for her to have survived this awful event in the state which seemed so
likely.


Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 18:40:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:53:17 -0500
From: Bree Kalb <bree-AT-
mindspring.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fwd: Mary Kay Friday Update 3/17/01
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010318205317.006b2864-AT-
pop.mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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To all of Mary Kay's friends:
Mary Kay and I were roommates at Pinewoods English/American Week this past
summer. It was my first time there and I was relatively new to ECD. She
took me under her wing and I had a wonderful time largely because of her. I
developed such affection and respect for her in that one week; I can only
imagine the loss for those of you who were lucky enough to know her longer
and better. Thanks to Liz and others for keeping us all aware of her
condition and departure.
Sadly, 
Bree Kalb

At 02:41 PM 3/17/01 -0500, you wrote:
>A more recent update.... / Sadly, Diane
>
>>From: Liz Donaldson <liz-AT-
us.net>
>>Subject: Mary Kay Friday Update 3/17/01
>>
>>Mary Kay died this morning at 10:15 on St. Patrick's Day.  Her 
>>brother Bill Goodman, and friend Paul Friday were with her.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:59:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:58:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: steph-AT-
boo.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Mary Kay Friday update - contact info, memorial plans
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: steph-AT-
boo.net
Message-ID: <200103191559.KAA15638-AT-
boo-mda02.boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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Friends,

Here is the latest information on Mary Kay Friday from Liz Donaldson.  Thanks 
to all of you who have written and who spoke to me at the Westchester Ball on 
Saturday.  Liz Donaldson's "Mary Kay's Waltz" was played at the Ball, and we 
remembered her fondly in conversations and on the dance floor.  
Stephanie

*************************************************************************
Mary Kay's brother, Bill Goodman, writes:
 >>
 >>          "I'm sure Mom would enjoy receiving letters from Mary Kay's
 >>  friends. For
 >>  those who prefer to use e-mail, letters may be sent to
 >>  74344.3715-AT-
compuserve.com which is my brother, Doug's, personal
 >>  e-mail account. If the letters have some sort of indication that they
 >>  are intended for Fredda, my brother (or his wife) will print the
 >>  letters and give them to Mom".
 >>
 >>  For those who wish to write, send mail to Mary Kay's mother, Mrs.
 >>  Fredda Goodman, 1263 W. Mountain View Drive, Mesa, AZ 85201.
 
 The family has asked I let folks know that the date for a memorial 
 program for Mary Kay has not yet been set, but is likely to be in two 
 or three weeks in the Washington area, probably in DC.  The date 
 should be known shortly, and I'll send a notice as soon as possible. 
 Liz
*************************************************************************

---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:23:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 08:23:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0103190820110.16355-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Stu Shapiro wrote:

> --- Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> > And, of course, when I first started dancing, I always perked
> > up (read: panicked) when they announced . . . "Orly's
> Baffled."
> >
> Along that line of thought, here are some possible Mondegreens of dances
> that will be done at the NYC Playford Ball that Orly will chair.

Don't forget "Lawn Gods."  And, though it's not exactly a Mondegreen, many
of us refer to "Enrichez Vous" in its English translation, "Henry at Your
House."

(Are there any dances named after programming languages other than "Sun
Assembly"?)

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:30:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:29:19 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Goodbye to Winter, Hello to Spring"
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v021305aab6dc0c4b474e-AT-
[129.10.72.165]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Dear friends,
 If you're within driving distance of Boston, Mass. you've probably seen
more snow in the last couple of weeks than you'd care to.  This Wednesday,
celebrate the end of the snow with our "Goodbye to Winter, Hello to Spring"
Party dance. (See our web site http://www.cds-Boston.org/ for information
on time and location.)

The program which is being put together by Jacqueline Schwab, features
dances associated to
winter and spring. This is a chance to look back over the winter season,
with dances like "In the Bleak Midwinter"," Round about our Coal Fire", and
"Winter Memories", and to look forward to spring with dances like "Easter
Morn", "Sun Assembly", "Easter Thursday" and "Room for Ramblers". (These
exact dances may not appear on the program, but it gives the idea of what
we're about.)

As an extra benefit, CDS members coming to the annual meeting at 7PM get
to dance free that night.

So let's dance those end of winter blues away!

Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:34:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:34:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The unforgettable Mary Kay
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <30.120a1228.27e7f18e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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I spent all weekend thinking about Mary Kay, in which I'm sure I wasn't alone.  One thing I kept thinking was what a great light had gone out of my life with her passing. We hadn't been friends for more than a couple of years, but now that she's gone there's a hole in the world that nothing else can fill.  Mary Kay had, in an amazing degree, the gift of kindness: after I'd spent time with her the world always seemed to me a kinder place. And she had a knack for making you feel special just by smiling at you and saying your name. That's how I'll always remember her. 

We were lucky to have her.

Nilos  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:28:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:26:54 -0600
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB6BFED.81D5678D-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010314141510.22326G-100000-AT-
shell1.interlog.com>

Christine Robb wrote:

> Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
> use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many tapes,
> in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
> teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable time,
> so again, only cd's will cut it for me.

I personally prefer to use 5- or 10-minutes / per side tapes.  But I
always copy from my originals onto the short tapes so I can keep my
originals safely at home (my tapes go to lots of outdoor events). 
However, I can make working copies from CDs or tapes and since I suspect
most people these days prefer CDs that seems to be the way to go with
new recordings.

--Charlene

-- 
A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first
thought of.  --Burt Bacharach (b. 1929) U.S. composer
=====
Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
mailto:findbook-AT-
flash.net
=====
For Sale:  Earnshaw, Pat; Lace in Fashion:  From the Sixteenth to the
Twentieth Centuries
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:01:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:00:44 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: jberger-AT-
monitor.net
Message-ID: <d2.3f38557.27e8d8ac-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Jon Berger wrote:

 >(Are there any dances named after programming languages other
 >than "Sun Assembly"?)

Not a programming language, but closely related: "Fast Packet,"
which (as Jon and I learned together a couple of years ago at
Ashokan) was not named for a boat, but for a computer data
transfer phenomenon.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:03:01 PST
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:02:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
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> Jon Berger wrote:
> >(Are there any dances named after programming languages
> > other than "Sun Assembly"?)

--- DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Not a programming language, but closely related: "Fast
> Packet," which (as Jon and I learned together a couple of 
> years ago at Ashokan) was not named for a boat, but for a
> computer data transfer phenomenon.

Then there is "The Maid Peeped Out at the Windows", "Appley
House" and "Mac's Favorite". "Young Window". "Word Duck" and
"WordPerfections of Love". "As Quicken as You Please".

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:33:38 PST
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:33:24 -0800
From: bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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ALEX2>
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Well, there was the time I was calling a dance in Minneapolis and announced
that we were all going to do Fair and Softly, not realizing there was a
woman named Farrand in the audience...

Jon Berger wrote:
> (Are there any dances named after programming languages other 
> than "Sun Assembly"?)
Very nice!  Best I've come up with so far is explicitly not named after a
programming language: the No-Snobol.

 -Bruce

bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com  Tel: 650-485-2818  Fax: 650-485-8092
Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303
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Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:36:07 PST
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:29:53 +0000
From: jmtraining <jmtraining-AT-
ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010314141510.22326G-100000-AT-
shell1.interlog.com> <3AB6BFED.81D5678D-AT-
flash.net>

With Mini Disks you get the best of all worlds - you get the quality and
'findability' of CDs with the 'recordability' of tapes. I use MDs and
personally find them to be the best alternative for my needs.

John Meechan

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: Bare Necessities Vol. 5


> Christine Robb wrote:
>
> > Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
> > use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many
tapes,
> > in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
> > teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable
time,
> > so again, only cd's will cut it for me.
>
> I personally prefer to use 5- or 10-minutes / per side tapes.  But I
> always copy from my originals onto the short tapes so I can keep my
> originals safely at home (my tapes go to lots of outdoor events).
> However, I can make working copies from CDs or tapes and since I suspect
> most people these days prefer CDs that seems to be the way to go with
> new recordings.
>
> --Charlene
>
> --
> A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first
> thought of.  --Burt Bacharach (b. 1929) U.S. composer
> =====
> Free Book Searches (out-of-print, hard-to-find, foreign, used, new) -
> mailto:findbook-AT-
flash.net
> =====
> For Sale:  Earnshaw, Pat; Lace in Fashion:  From the Sixteenth to the
> Twentieth Centuries

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:17:25 -0500 (EST)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 3/20/01 1:04:29 PM, lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com writes:

<< --- DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Not a programming language, but closely related: "Fast
> Packet," which (as Jon and I learned together a couple of 
> years ago at Ashokan) was not named for a boat, but for a
> computer data transfer phenomenon.

Then there is "The Maid Peeped Out at the Windows", "Appley
House" and "Mac's Favorite". "Young Window". "Word Duck" and
"WordPerfections of Love". "As Quicken as You Please". >>

Then there are the New York dances: Queens Jig and Kings Penny, 
and the newly composed vegetable dance: Peas Be With You.

Carl  Friedman
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Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:25:31 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:25:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Ball Mondegreens
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:
>
> (Are there any dances named after programming languages other than "Sun
> Assembly"?)

  What about the Coboler's Hornpipe?

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:02:56 PST
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:03:39 -0800
From: Howard Carlberg <nsuch-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re:CD/tape
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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References: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010314141510.22326G-100000-AT-
shell1.interlog.com> <3AB6BFED.81D5678D-AT-
flash.net>

Christine,
It is easy enough to make your own CDs these days, so it
seems it doesn't matter so much what medium you have as your
original. As Bill McD describes, MP3 can have advantages,
but if you are not comfortable with that, or you don't have
it available, making you own CDs might be an option. I use
live music for dancing, but I have made up short CDs for
practice, copying from LP and cassette tape. You can even
change the tempo or pitch if necessary with computer software.

Howard

Charlene Charette wrote:
> 
> Christine Robb wrote:
> 
> > Speaking as both a teacher and as a listener, if it's not on cd, I can't
> > use it.  I have nothing against LP's and tapes (I own way too many tapes,
> > in fact), but cannot play them.  Even when I could play them, as a
> > teacher, cueing up a piece of music on tape takes too much valuable time,
> > so again, only cd's will cut it for me.
> 
> I personally prefer to use 5- or 10-minutes / per side tapes.  But I
> always copy from my originals onto the short tapes so I can keep my
> originals safely at home (my tapes go to lots of outdoor events).
> However, I can make working copies from CDs or tapes and since I suspect
> most people these days prefer CDs that seems to be the way to go with
> new recordings.
> 
> --Charlene


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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:47:34 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:49:56 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: The unforgettable Mary Kay
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3AB8BF95.594C-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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References: <30.120a1228.27e7f18e-AT-
aol.com>

Thank you Nilos, you have put succinctly what I had been feeling about
the sad loss of Mary Kay.

I had only met her on a few occasions but as you say she made you feel
special each time you met her.

Graham
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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:04:58 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:47:38 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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Message-ID: <20010321.150025.-8967.5.solweber-AT-
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Two items:

1.  Anyone know who wrote the music for the wonderful Huntington's
Maggot?

2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are 
astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.  

Thanks.


+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ; members.nbci.com/rounds
 FAX 1-917-677-5414 (NYC area code); Urgent message?  Please phone.
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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:13:42 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:13:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103211512340.8911-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, sol weber wrote:

> 2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are 
> astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
> is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.  

7 for the 7 stars in the sky (dance pattern by fried herman)

and is there a dance called hunter's moon?

- susie lorand
  princeton, nj, usa

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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:24:16 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:12:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Sol wrote:

> 1.  Anyone know who wrote the music for the wonderful Huntington's
> Maggot?

Not I.

> 2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are
> astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
> is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.

"Mars and Venus"
"Greenwich Park" (isn't the Royal Observatory in Greenwich?)
"Star of the County Down" (suggested tune for "Circle Waltz")
"Once a Night" (how often the moon rises, for example)
"Up On a Lofty Mountain" (good location for an observatory)

Charlie Fenton likes to call a contra called "Stars of Joy" at the Santa Cruz
Dawn Dance, timed for around dawn.  The figures suggest sun, moon, and stars.

Well, you said far-fetched and silly were ok.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:29:22 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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There was discussion a while back about a dance called *.* for which I 
believe the concensus was "Star dot Star."  I've forgotten the composer, 
however.  Can someone finish this thought?
--Orly Krasner
okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:32:28 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:33:20 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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At 02:47 PM 3/21/01 -0500, you wrote:

>2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are 
>astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
>is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.  

Lunar Eclipse [Snowdon]
Mars & Venus
Zephyr & Neptune [Fried]
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:47:06 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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There are also various dances commemorating the Hale-Bopp comet, Fried's
Hale-Bopp Circle for one.
Why am I doing this?  I should be packing...
Sharon
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From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
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Does "Winter Solstice" count as astronomical?
--Orly Krasner
okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:52:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, sol weber wrote:

> 
> Two items:
> 
> 1.  Anyone know who wrote the music for the wonderful Huntington's
> Maggot?



Huntington's Maggot is listed in teh table of contents of the 10th edition
of The Dancing Master (It could be before that, too, but it's not in the
1st ed.).

Other titles:

from the 10th ed.--

The Emperor of the Moon

from Vol. 2, 4th ed.--

Neptune's Triumph
Greenwich Hospital
Brisk & Airy (how it feels where they put observatories...)

Eric

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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:58:36 -0600 (CST)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200103212058.f2LKwar22153-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
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Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes:
> 
> Charlie Fenton likes to call a contra called "Stars of Joy" at the Santa Cruz
> Dawn Dance, timed for around dawn.  The figures suggest sun, moon, and stars.

   That's a fine dance.  Off the top of my head I can think of "Star Trek",
"Jump to the Stars" and "Lost in the Stars", though I can't recall the
authors' names.  There is also "Lost in Interstellar Haze (or is it Heys)"
by Roger Diggle.  I've written a couple that might do as well, "Swing On a
Star #2" and "When the Stars Are Right".  You can find them at
"http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/dances/dances.html".

   Another dance I've called before is "The Comet Contra".  I think it's
in Zesty Contras.  There is also "Rocket Reel" in there as well.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:13:34 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
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In a message dated 3/21/01 3:43:31 PM, mls-AT-
panix.com writes:

<< Why am I doing this?  I should be packing... >>

What about Fried's "7 for the Seven Stars in the Sky?"
(Why are any of us doing this?)

Judy G.
================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:15:29 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Oops!
To: ECD-AT-
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Sorry, just saw Susan Lorand's previous post.

Judy
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From: CF1125-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
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In a message dated 3/21/01 3:06:04 PM, solweber-AT-
juno.com writes:

<< Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are 
astronomy related? >>

Herman Heyn, a Baltimore dancer and astronomer, wrote "Comet Contra" when 
Halley's came around - I think it was in 1985. It has a comet-like move in 
which, as I recall, a line of 4 goes down the hall and turns as a line, 
making a whooshing sound, and then comes back up the hall. Corny, but meets 
your criteria.
 
Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:50:21 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:49:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [fwd] Mary Kay Friday Memorial Service, April 5, DC
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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[I've forwarded the following from Liz Donaldson, as it will be of interest
to many on the list.  -- Alan]

From: Liz Donaldson <liz-AT-
us.net>
Subject: Mary Kay Friday - Memorial Service

Mary Kay Friday's Memorial Service will take place Thursday, April 
5, 2001 at 3:00  pm, at the St. Alban's Episcopal Church, Mount St. 
Alban, Washington, DC, 20016.  The church is situated on the grounds 
of the Washington National Cathedral on the  east side of Wisconsin 
Avenue (Route 355) just before Massachusetts Avenue.

Following  the service the family invites friends to visit and 
continue the celebration of Mary Kay's life in Satterlee Hall 
directly across the drive from the church.

In lieu of flowers, the  family suggests that donations be sent in 
her memory to the Country Dance and Song Society, PO Box 338/132 Main 
St., Haydenville, MA 01039-0338
-- 
Liz Donaldson
4518 Gladwyne Drive, Bethesda, MD 20814  PH: 301 986-1291, email: liz-AT-
us.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:54:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:54:43 -0700
From: Emma Rushton <rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03020900b6dee0ae8f02-AT-
[155.99.169.34]>
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>Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes:
>>
>> Charlie Fenton likes to call a contra called "Stars of Joy" at the Santa
>>Cruz
>> Dawn Dance, timed for around dawn.  The figures suggest sun, moon, and
>>stars.
>

Katie's Trip to Starbase 12 by Merilee Karr

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:13:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:15:51 -0800
From: srotenbe-AT-
impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: When Laura Smiles
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3AB96057.622C700F-AT-
mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
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hotmail.com>

Dear Orly,

Your dances arrived in yesterday's mail, and I'm planning to do When Laura
Smiles at GCD on April 6th.

Thanks,

Sam

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:36:21 PST
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:34:12 -0800
From: Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly <friendsack-AT-
opendoor.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB980C4.6D6808FF-AT-
opendoor.com>
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References: <20010321.150025.-8967.5.solweber-AT-
juno.com>

9 for the 9 bright shiners - Fried Herman
11 for the11 who went to heaven - Fried Herman
Little Nightingale - Pat Shaw (well they're out singing at night and so
would see the stars)



sol weber wrote:

> 2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are
> astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
> is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.
>

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 04:54:22 +0000
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F189mK6PYzDabigPasS00006724-AT-
hotmail.com>
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<html><DIV>Sol,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Don't forget the dance YOU commissioned from Fried Herman: Stars in Their Eyes.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Margherita</DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:59:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:56:14 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003d01c0b294$cefc0260$772b4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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References: <200103212058.f2LKwar22153-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>

You can dance almost any 32-bar contra to the tune "The Moon and Seven
Stars".

Peace,
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:17:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K1H5CSK58C9UNX4G-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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References: <20010321.150025.-8967.5.solweber-AT-
juno.com>

> 9 for the 9 bright shiners - Fried Herman
> 11 for the11 who went to heaven - Fried Herman
> Little Nightingale - Pat Shaw (well they're out singing at night and so
> would see the stars)

Well, in that case:

Midnight Ramble.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 00:27:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:35:31 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3AB9B953.885BA45E-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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hotmail.com>

Orly Krasner wrote:

> There was discussion a while back about a dance called *.* for which I
> believe the concensus was "Star dot Star."  I've forgotten the composer,
> however.  Can someone finish this thought?

By the late Aegle Hoekstra; a  hornpipe dance published in Oe Moe Me Noe.

There's also:

Fiddling with the stars, a contra by Al Olson
Star of David, by Colin Hume
Harke Planeet, by Cor Hogendijk (published in Dutch Crossing)

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:00:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 12:59:41 -0800
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: looking for ECD contact info in very-south, very-west USA
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20010322205941.009585b0-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
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Good day all.
in our Local (Los Angeles) dancing community there is a rumor going around.
The rumor is that a new ECD group has started up in San Diego.
Trouble is, everyone who reports the rumor has heard someone else talk about
it, but nobody can pinpoint to a name/phone/address/e-mail for more information.
It could be just another urban legend, or it could be true; I would like to
find out. CDSS (I just called them) has not heard of any such group.
Does anyone on this list know anything for sure?
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Giovanni De Amici

 

for information about ECD in Los Angeles, check out our web page at
www.geocities.com/sbecd



_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:13:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:21:49 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: looking for ECD contact info in very-south, very-west USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20010322162031.00c6d240-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Giovanni, email Steve Maranto: spaul54-AT-
adnc.com
His folks have been prepping for the Jane Austen dance.
Cheers,
Sharon

At 12:59 PM 3/22/01 -0800, South Bay English Country Dance wrote:
>Good day all.
>in our Local (Los Angeles) dancing community there is a rumor going around.
>The rumor is that a new ECD group has started up in San Diego.
>Trouble is, everyone who reports the rumor has heard someone else talk about
>it, but nobody can pinpoint to a name/phone/address/e-mail for more 
>information.
>It could be just another urban legend, or it could be true; I would like to
>find out. CDSS (I just called them) has not heard of any such group.
>Does anyone on this list know anything for sure?
>Thank you for any help you can provide.
>Giovanni De Amici
>
> 
>
>for information about ECD in Los Angeles, check out our web page at
>www.geocities.com/sbecd
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>
>Do You Yahoo!?
>
>Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:58:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:57:59 -0600
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200103222357.RAA22143-AT-
kodos.svc.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jonathan Sivier, j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu wrote:  

>     ...    Off the top of my head I can think of "Star Trek",
>"Jump to the Stars" and "Lost in the Stars", though I can't recall the
>authors' names.  There is also "Lost in Interstellar Haze (or is it Heys)"
>by Roger Diggle.  I've written a couple that might do as well, "Swing On a
>Star #2" and "When the Stars Are Right".  You can find them at
>"http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/dances/dances.html".

Jump to the Stars is by Al Olson, 
has a fabulous gimmick, is one of my favorite dances.  
There's an easy way to install a balance and swing with neighbor 
in this dance, if anyone is interested.  The choreography is 
clever enough to please the English dance crowd, I would think.

It's "Lost in the Interstellar Haze," pun intended.
(it was published with a misprint in the title).

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:32:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:28:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: looking for ECD contact info in very-south, very-west USA
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K1I5I9S0L29UMYSN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
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Giovanni wrote:

> in our Local (Los Angeles) dancing community there is a rumor going around.
> The rumor is that a new ECD group has started up in San Diego.
> Trouble is, everyone who reports the rumor has heard someone else talk about
> it, but nobody can pinpoint to a name/phone/address/e-mail for more information.
> It could be just another urban legend, or it could be true; I would like to
> find out. CDSS (I just called them) has not heard of any such group.
> Does anyone on this list know anything for sure?
> Thank you for any help you can provide.
> Giovanni De Amici

 
Well, if you checked the ECD hotbeds page at 
http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd/hotbeds.htmlx
- which Giovanni himself collated the initial information for! - you'd find 

San Diego Area 

Poway: Every Sunday, 6:30-8:30 pm, Jean Hart Academy of Dance, 12227 Poway Road
Contact Ellen Riley, 858-486-9160 or Eagnr-AT-
hotmail.com. 


(That information is a couple of weeks old.  The dance was big enough that they
needed to move from their previous location at the library.)

Incidentally, I'd encourage people to check that page to see if their local
dance is listed with current contact info, and to email me if it needs
correction.  The only means I have for keeping this updated is for people to
tell me the new information.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:30:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:29:49 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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I'm really surprised nobody has mentioned 'Maid in the Moon' - doesn't anyone 
do it these days?
    John Wood has written an ingenious triple minor called 'Halley's Comet' 
(to be found in 'My Family and Other Dances'), and the Wrights found an C18th 
dance called The Comet, which they thought referred to a previous appearance 
of Halley's Comet.
    There's a tune called 'A starry night for a ramble' too.
    Did anyone suggest 'The Night Piece'?
                                                                Nicolas.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:19:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 00:15:12 -0500
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330100b6e0894d243f-AT-
[66.31.148.6]>
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A couple of mild stretches:  Upon a Summer's Day, and "To Drive the 
Cold Winter Away' (if I have the name of the second one right).  Both 
from The English Dance Master; both not directly astronomical, but 
imply the turning of the seasons (and hence the movement of the earth 
around the sun) to me.

A tune, more directly astronomical, but not a dance, 'Jump to the 
Sun' -- one of my favorite contra dance tunes.  It being late at 
night, the author's name eludes me.

Another stretch: the tune 'Star of the County Down,' frequently 
played as a waltz, though of course the original author had a 
different kind of star in mind.

'The Star' Schottische -- a step, rather than a dance or a tune.

If you go to Revels, then 'Abbott's Bromley' can't help but make one 
think of the solstice, and there's a contra dance based on the Revels 
choreography.

Well, that's all I can think of.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:14:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 01:11:58 -0600
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <012101c0b368$8d6ee680$be2a4b0c-AT-
paulstam>
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References: <b6.12ecb47c.27ec010d-AT-
aol.com> <p04330100b6e0894d243f-AT-
[66.31.148.6]>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>

<<A tune, more directly astronomical, but not a dance, 'Jump to the
Sun' -- one of my favorite contra dance tunes.  It being late at
night, the author's name eludes me.>>

Actually "Jump at the Sun"; it was written by English squeezebox player John
Kirkpatrick.

Peace,
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:22:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:10:15 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3ABA6A37.608C-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103211512340.8911-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>

No, the book was called Hunter's Moon but there was no dance.

FYI, Hunter's Moon is a hotel at Sidmouth that hosts a dance on its lawn
on the last Friday afternoon of Sidmouth Festival Week. If the weather
is good, and you avoid the tree roots coming through the lawn, it can be
magical.

Graham

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:29:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:32:24 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3ABB2638.2A73-AT-
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aol.com>

If you wish to continue the theme of seasonality, viz. Winter Solstice,
Wendy has written another dance called Vernal Equinox (Further flights
of Fancy).

She also has Ascending Star of Abingworth in the same book. This is not
for the faint hearted as it is 5 couples ina star formation!!

To stretch the point further there is also Autumn Glory and Meridian
Line in Flights of Fancy.

Regards,

Graham
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:36:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 21:10:15 +0000
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3ABA6A37.608C-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103211512340.8911-100000-AT-
tucson.Princeton.EDU>

No, the book was called Hunter's Moon but there was no dance.

FYI, Hunter's Moon is a hotel at Sidmouth that hosts a dance on its lawn
on the last Friday afternoon of Sidmouth Festival Week. If the weather
is good, and you avoid the tree roots coming through the lawn, it can be
magical.

Graham

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:48:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:48:00 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Assembly Ball - Scotland, June 30th, 2001
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <64.c4f288a.27ed0270-AT-
aol.com>
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It is with great regret that we have today cancelled the Ball this summer. 
    As we are part of the rural scene in South Lanarkshire, and have a flock 
of sheep and goats (for the moment, at any rate) it would be irresponsible to 
encourage people to come from far and wide, risking their spreading Foot and 
Mouth inadvertently even further than it has or will have by then.
    Let us hope for happier times and a splendid occasion next year.
                                                    Nicolas Broadbridge, 
Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:56:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:58:10 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Assembly Ball - Scotland, June 30th, 2001
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b6e168d02922-AT-
[140.186.55.178]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>It is with great regret that we have today cancelled the Ball this summer.
>    As we are part of the rural scene in South Lanarkshire, and have a flock
>of sheep and goats (for the moment, at any rate) it would be irresponsible to
>encourage people to come from far and wide, risking their spreading Foot and
>Mouth inadvertently even further than it has or will have by then.
>    Let us hope for happier times and a splendid occasion next year.
>                                                    Nicolas Broadbridge,
>Lanark, Scotland.

Oh, Nicolas.  I'm so sorry.  But now I'm curious.  What do you do with your
sheep and goats?  Send the fleeces out for spinning, make cheese with the
goat milk, train the dogs and go to the dog trials?  Sheep and goats could
be fun(as well as a lot of work), that's for sure.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:50:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:49:48 -0800
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Ball - Los Angeles - California
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20010324014948.00956e74-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear fellow dancers,

the South Bay English Country Dance branch of the California Dance Cooperative
is happy to invite you to visit southern California and join us for the:

           2001 Los Angeles Playford Ball - St. Michael's Madness

          on saturday 29 september 2001 (Michaelmass night) * 7 to 11 pm

               at the Masonic Center Hall, El Segundo, California

                            Dance master: James Hutson
                  Music by: Frank Hoppe, Ken Shaw and Jeff Spero

           Ball practice on friday, 28 september in Pasadena (location TBD)


Program, cost, list of dances, registration form and details can be found on
SB*ECD web page at www.geocities.com/sbecd/playford/playford_front.html
(follow the link to Playford Ball). For any other question, or to request a
paper copy of the flier, kindly e-mail (off list) to sbecd-AT-
yahoo.com.

Use that same address also to kindly report any trouble you might encounter
accessing the web page.
Hope to see you all dancing soon.
Giovanni De Amici (webmaster and committee chairman)


for information about ECD in Los Angeles, check out our web page at
www.geocities.com/sbecd



_________________________________________________________

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Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:51:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 22:53:19 -0800
From: srotenbe-AT-
impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Mary Kay
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <30.120a1228.27e7f18e-AT-
aol.com> <3AB8BF95.594C-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>

Dear ECD list,

I feel a terrible loss, both personally and for the dance community. Mary
Kay was so present at so many dance events, on so many committees and
boards, that her absence will be felt greatly.  My personal recollections
of her are posted on our local Germantown Country Dancers web site at:
http://www.culture-at-work.com/mkfreflections.html   There's another nice
photo if you click back to the main page. The dance community, as usual,
has been like a family in supporting each other through this sad event.
Our dances, pot lucks, and rehearsals have been intersperced with hugs and
tears and many fond memories.  I have received many heartfelt responses to
my own shared memories.  It is certainly a tribute to our community that
we can support each other in the hardest of times.

Several people have shared on the ECD list their thoughts about Mary Kay.
Maybe others have sent cards or messages directly to her family.  Her
whole family: mother, brothers, sisters-in-law, neices and nephews are
expected to be at the service in Washington DC on April 5th. Our family
plans to be there and there will be an opportunity to share our memories
and stories. If there are stories or memories you would like to share, but
you can't be present at the service, please send them on and we will
either incorporate them in our remarks or pass them on directly to the
family.

I also plan to put together a photo collage. If you have a special
photograph of Mary Kay which you are willing to part with or can make a
good xerox copy or photo copy of and get to me by March 31st, I can add it
to the collage.

Thanks,

Sandy Rotenberg

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:04:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:03:02 +0200
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: RE: Huntington's/astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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iae.nl>
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> Sol wrote:
>
> 2.  Can you suggest English (*and* Amer) dances whose names are
> astronomy related?  Sun Assembly immediately comes to mind. Serious
> is good; far-fetched and silly are OK too.

"In the Seventh Heaven", "Star.Star" (Star point Star) and "Special Star" by
Ægle Hoekstra can be found in the book "Oe Moe Me Noe?" (yes they're ECD).
"Star.Star" (*.*) can also be counted as computer related for those who can
remember MS-DOS. Ægle used to say "Delete star-point-star; are you sure?"

Go to http://www.nvs-dance.nl/shop.html for details.

Antony Heywood

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 03:34:04 PST
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:31:40 -0500
From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Conference
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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The Playford Conference

Apparently in academic circles it's vital to publish your research before
anybody else does, so I'm hoping the other attendees are still sleeping it
off!  This is a personal view - please treat it as such.  I was taking
notes at the time, but I may have misquoted people.

The Playford Conference at Cecil Sharp House was a major success by any
standard.  Over 200 people came from England, The States, Holland, Belgium,
Japan and many other countries (including the last-minute Sharon Green) and
there was a real buzz in the Kennedy Hall by 9.30, half an hour before the
proceedings started.  Brenda Godrich (Chairman of EFDSS National Council)
said that it was a wonderful way of bringing English Tradition to the
hearts and minds of people (the new EFDSS mission statement) and Anne Daye
(Chairman of the Dolmetsch Historical Dance Society) said that the
collaboration between EFDSS and DHDS was a major step forward, since
English Country Dance was a minor part of an impoverished discipline
(Dance) and therefore we needed to work together.  After a few
organisational announcements, the papers began.


Jennifer Kiek:  "That Againe"

I'm not used to academic conferences, and I'm afraid Jennifer's paper
reinforced the image I had; convoluted sentence structure, words and
phrases that no-one uses when they talk, and she just sat there and read
it.  Having said that, she made many good points (which I certainly didn't
know) about the 75 years of history which preceded the publication of "The
English Dancing Master" in 1651.  A considerable amount of reasearch has
been done on the music of that period, but not much on the dance notation,
partly because of the "English Folk Roots" attitude.  A large number of
dances in the first edition contain the Up a double/Siding/Arming
introductions, but clearly these did not suddenly appear with Playford's
publication - they were commonly known before that.  The single and Double
go back to the 15th century and were written about in Italy, France and
England.  Several Inns of Court manuscripts predate Playford, and there are
striking similarities.  She did not feel that one led to the other; rather
that they shared a common heritage.  The Gresley manuscript circa 1500
contains elements of French and Italian dance and yet is clearly a
forerunner of Playford; it contains 26 descriptions of English Dances in
the aristocratic European style.  The introductions are formal, and you are
dancing only with your partner; the figures are intended to intermingle the
dancers.

One thing which I had been warned would happen was that speakers would talk
right up to their deadline, leaving no time for questions.  I felt the
various chairmen should have been more strict in stopping the speakers. 
However, Julia Sutton had time to point out that Italian dances of the
early 17th century contain setting and siding, and that back into the 15th
century there were remarkable connections, with some figures identical to
those in the "English" country dance.  I know we in England are (literally)
insular and tend to assume that ECD is peculiarly English with no relation
to the outside world; we need to be reminded occasionally that England
didn't develop in a vacuum and there was plenty of communication and
exchange of people with the rest of Europe.

Anne Daye:  Taking the measure of dance steps 1650-1700, through the dance
publications of John Playford

I felt the conference came to life when Anne started talking.  She told us
that between 1600 and 1700 there was a transition from one form of steps to
another, but there were few books or documents available which spoke of
this, so Playford's publication in the middle of this era was highly
significant.  There were differences in most dimensions: steps, use of
space, relationship to the music.  In fact there was a fundamental shift in
the dancers' response to music.  This corresponded to major changes in
society generally.

The "Early Modern" style (1550-1650) used one double as the basic unit,
taking two bars (measures), though of course the dancers were listening to
the music rather than reading the bar lines.  A double is three steps and a
closure.  Thomas Morley recommended semibrieves or pairs of minims for
notating dance music.

The "Modern" style (1650-1750) used the pas de bourre or fleuret as the
standard step.  This is three steps and a pause, and takes only one bar. 
It's a faster step, so there is much more sense of momentum and no firm
closure.  She demonstrated the two styles, and pointed out that in practice
you could use either in some dances.  So in 1651 you could have the
introductions using doubles, but the rest of the figure using the new
faster steps - tying up with what Jennifer had said about the introductions
being more formal.  In 1651, 80% of the descriptions use the term "double",
whereas from 1675 no new dances use this term, and all the new dances were
longways for as many as will with the exception of "Green Stockings" which
is 4 couples longways.  The last new dance with the standard introductions
appears in 1670.  In 1665 alternative introductions appeared, fulfilling
the ceremonial context but in a longways format.


Jeremy Barlow: Tunes in the English Dancing Master (1651) - John Playford's
accidental misprints

I thought Jeremy was going to be boringly academic, and I was wrong!  He
put forward an amazing theory.  Playford rushed out the publication of "The
Dancing Master" (which he says in the introduction he did because a rival
was about to pulish a similar book) and got Thomas Harper to do the
printing.  Harper used some musical type which he had last used 20 years
before, in which every note, accidental, bar-line etc was a separate
element.  This accounts for the wavy nature of the stave lines.  It means
you can reuse the type, which is obviously an economical practice,  but
Harper didn't have any type for leger lines (lines above or below the
stave) and his "sharps" were in short supply!  There are NO tunes with
leger lines in the first edition, which explains why the top note in
Newcastle (2nd bar of the B music) is a tone lower than it should be.  The
second edition contains an amazing 50% more sharps than the first, and does
not show Harper as the printer; presumably Playford had more time to look
around for a new printer with a bigger supply of type.

To my mind, this is one in the eye for those academics who examine the
notation and base PhD theses on the sharpening or non-sharpening of certain
notes.  To be fair, Jeremy also pointed out that in the century up to
Playford's publication it was common for musicians to add missing
accidentals, especially sharpening the leading note.  And some changes in
the 2nd edition seem to be just personal preference rather than the
availability of an extra bunch of "sharps".  His eventual conclusion was
that you can carry on playing the music the way you did.  Gene Murrow
(who's been to a lot of academic conferences) says that's always the
conclusion of such papers!


Robert M Keller: The English Dancing Master, 1651-1728 - an illustrated
compendium

As you know, Bob Keller has set up a web site where you can see and analyse
dances from the entire span of The Dancing Master.  He now has it on a CD,
and all attendees were given a copy of this.  Bob's inspiration was Tom
Cook's mammoth analysis "The Assembly", but he struggled with this time and
time again without really coming to terms with it.  I can vouch for that! 
It's in Tom's handwriting, and lawyers are not known for clear handwriting.
 Tom had been analysing dances for 25 years, in terms of form, progression
and first appearance of a particular dance.  Bob had previously produced a
database of early American country dances, so moving on to Playford seemed
a natural choice.  He also incorporates the notes of the first three bars
of music, believing that this is enough to identify tunes which are the
same or very similar.  His analysis is based on the instructions as
printed, rather than on any interpretation (reconstruction).  There is a
browsable index and a search-engine which allows you to analyse elements in
various categories: Form, Progression, Miscellaneous, Major figures.  Bob
gave examples of all these and showed various graphs indicating trends over
time.  The CD will be very welcome in England, where most of us still pay
for our internet connection; having the CD on my PC means I can analyse the
data without the pressure of knowing that it's costing me money!  You can
buy a copy from Bob - sorry, I don't have the details.


Diana Cruikshank:  Circling the square - the country dances of Thomas Bray

Bray's dances are becoming better known with the publication of
reconstructions by Christine Helwig.  Diana enthused about Bray's
inventiveness - the sudden changes of shape, the unusual movements,
sometimes with one going on inside another, adding a little twist to a
standard figure to make it novel.  She described him as a person with a
visual imagination - a man of the theatre.  Her display team showed us "The
Last of Twenty" (the only one using the minuet step) and others, and
finished with "Duke of Gloucester's March".


Ann Kent:  Country dancing in the French Style 1700-1730

Ann mentioned the dance books of Feuillet and Dezais, which use diagrams
(the Feuillet notation) rather than the words of Playford and his
followers.  The diagrams make clear things which are not explained in
Playford, such as which shoulder to use for siding and which way to turn
single.  Her husband Paul demonstrated the various steps described by
Feuillet.  The French steps were known and published in England; John Essex
published a translation of Feuillet's book and incorporated some of his own
dances recorded in the same notation.  She had selected some Playford
dances in the French style using bourree and gavotte steps, and a display
team demonstrated these, finishing with "Prince George's Birthday" using
the courante step.


Choice of two workshops:  
A  Julia Sutton:  Lorin and Playford;  A  Michael Barraclough:  Newcastle
United

I chose to go to Mike Barraclough's session, particularly because I have my
own interpretation of Newcastle!  Mike was comparing various sources: the
Dancing Master 1st Edition of 1651, the 7th Edition of 1686, and (mainly)
an undated hand-written manuscript in the British Library.  He pointed out
that Sharp had had two goes at Newcastle (both wrong), that Tom Cook had
interpreted the manuscript version, and that Mike had had a go at Newcastle
before - "Mr Barraclough's Folly or Newcastle Revisited" which was also
wrong.  He felt that Tom HAD to make his version as different as possible
from Sharp's to make it acceptable.  [In fact Tom even commissioned a new
tune from Brian Jenkins to reduce the confusion.]

I was totally unconvinced by Mike's version - which you may put down to
professional jealousy if you wish.  It seemed to me that he had just taken
the bits he liked and ignored the bits he didn't, and no doubt people would
say the same of me!


Annie Richardson:  Trivial pursuits? - the representation of country dance
in 18th century drama

Maybe there's a misprint in the programme - I don't think she mentioned
drama.  Annie is an Art Historian at Southampton University, and she was
talking about Hogarth's 1753 book "The Analysis of Beauty".  I just
couldn't get into her talk at all.  She mentioned dance every so often, but
she never really talked about it.  She said that the country dance was
often used as a metaphor for sexual attraction, and that "beauty" meant a
woman selling herself sexually for a good marriage, but I felt she was at
the wrong conference!  Sorry, Annie.


Ellis Rogers:  Long division and the circle squared

Ellis gave an interesting talk (remember, this is all my personal opinion)
on the failure of the country dance in the 19th century.  He argued that
there are two things necessary for a dance form to become (or remain)
popular.  First it has to reward the person who takes part in it.  Second
it has to fulfill a social need.

At the public dances at the beginning of the 19th century the top lady
chose the figures and the tune.  People went to public dances for social
reasons, not because they were good dancers.  [Sound familiar?]  The bad
dancers with poor memories outnumbered the good dancers, so the dances
tended to be incredibly simple.  They were often cut down to 16 bars;
people couldn't be expected to remember a whole 32-bar sequence as was
common in Playford's day.  Popular tunes of the day got called for
repeatedly, whether they were suitable for the figures or not.  At the
bottom of the line you could wait 10 minutes before the dance reached you. 
Thomas Wilson says the band would play the same tune for 2 hours.  Ellis
says this was probably a dancing master exaggerating, but half an hour was
common.  The steps also fell out of favour.  Wilson said that by his time
(1800) the dances were mostly walked.  As if to compensate for this, the
music had speeded up.

So there was little reward for those taking part.  As for the second need,
Eurpoe was in ferment at that time.  The French Revolution had changed
society forever.  There was censorship in the English press, perhaps
because the establishment feared a revolution here too.  Young people
wanted new styles of clothing and wanted to be seen as individuals, so they
also wanted to do new dances.  The quadrille was the ideal dance in this
situation.  There were new set tunes, and new figures.  You practiced the
figures in advance, so they didn't have to be so simple.  You could choose
your own set - four like-minded couples - and create your own clique on the
dance floor.  And there were some solo figures, which the flamboyant
youngsters liked.

The quadrille was supreme for many years, but eventually suffered the same
fate as the country dance.  The figures were simplified, the steps were
removed, and the music speeded up.  Ellis hazarded that these were
indications that a dance form was in decline.  Gene Murrow and I looked at
each other and thought "Contra Dancing"!  But maybe modern ECD (especially
in the States, dare I say) falls into the same category.


In the evening was the Ball, with the great majority in period costume or
formal wear.  Maybe I'm biased as one of the callers, but I thought it went
amazingly well.  The Kennedy Hall at Cecil Sharp House was full of dancers,
and there was a tremendous atmosphere.  I wasn't sure how the Broadside
Band would cope with playing for dances, but they were excellent; Jeremy
Barlow had told me beforehand that it was up to me to slow them down or
speed them up as necessary, and they were very amenable to this.  Anne Daye
and I called dances from the early period of The Dancing Master, then Ann
Kent a later period and then Andrew Shaw later still.  The full programme
is on the DHDS website at http://freespace.virgin.net/david.parsons/dhds/

It was great to see people from the historical dance world mingling with
dancers from EFDSS, CDSS and other "revival" groups.  Everyone seemed happy
to be there - there was no sense of two groups divided by their beliefs. 
Two of the callers/teachers were from DHDS, two from EFDSS, and people were
not put off by their different presentation styles.  Gene and I were very
tired and were both giving a paper and calling the next day, so we left
before the end.  Possibly we felt that after dancing one with the title
"Would you have a young virgin of 15 years" all the rest would be an
anti-climax!  There was also the problem that British Summer Time started
that night (an example of the English sense of humour, according to the
Conference Administrator) and the Sunday sessions started half an hour
earlier as well.  I managed to drive the 35 miles home to Letchworth
without mishap, and fell asleep exhausted!

That's enough for one day.  I'll tell you about Sunday tomorrow.

Colin Hume
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 04:03:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:03:01 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: Playford Conference [2]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Thank you, Colin.

As a far-removed member of the EFDSS and unable
to attend, my interest is still in such events, so it is
rewarding to get such information "'from the horse's
mouth."

Looking forward to the second day report.

Regards, John

Bedford, Nova Scotia
 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:02:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:02:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Howard Mitchell <howardgmitchell-AT-
yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Playford Conference
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Colin,

Thank you for the description so far. Just one question, in the same
way that you usually pretend not to understand my humour, I don't
understand your reference to the "English Folk Roots" attitude.

I look forward to your description of day 2.

Howard Mitchell
or Mitch if you prefer
http://www.stradivarious.co.uk


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Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 08:48:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:54:12 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: A sidebar to Mr Hume's useful report.
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
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I will add my voice to the thanks and praise for Mr Hume's labors on our behalf.
I am curious, however, about this remark:
"The figures were simplified, the steps were removed, and the music speeded up.
Ellis hazarded that these were indications that a dance form was in decline.
Gene Murrow and I looked at each other and thought "Contra Dancing"!  But maybe
modern ECD (especially in the States, dare I say) falls into the same category."

What is the evidence for this sort of decadence in the form? Are there many
complex steps or figures that are routinely executed in England, but not here?
It has seemed to me, on the contrary, that there are more, and more complex,
English Country Dances done now than previously. Nor do I recall that Cecil
Sharp and his generation were executing contretemps assemblees at every
opportunity, and we out of our idleness and wickedness do so no longer...

My admittedly limited work in Baroque dance has also suggested that, if
anything, we have a ponderous view of period tempos. Ken Pierce was fairly
emphatic that many the dances of the period were quite brisk.

But I could of course be wrong about all of this.

Perhaps I am feeling a little sensitive, as an American dancer--but much more
than that I am curious. Is ECD--in its revival--truly in decline? How are we to
know? If so, I  would arise from the knowledge a wiser but a sadder man, as the
poet says.

I am curious about evidence of decadence in contra too--but that perhaps belongs
in a different list, or off-list.

G

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:28:13 PST
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:28:06 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford conference report
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I'll start by saying I didn't attend the Playford conference but hope that 
someone will provide an *objective* report. The one just sent to this list 
started with a snide comment evidently referring to the soporific nature of 
the papers and didn't get any better. I was very disturbed by the tone of 
the summary provided to this list. Is this an official summary? That is, the 
author an official spokesman for the conference and its sponsors?

I thought this was to be, in fact, an academic conference; to condemn 
academics for being academic is, well, futile at best, and churlish at 
worst. There is always a tension between the academics and the enthusiasts 
in a field such as this. (I encounter it in my research on the history of 
sword dancing.) I can only say that without the academics, the enthusiasts 
would still have nothing but Sharpie's unfounded opinions of 80 years ago, 
plus their own tastes, to rely on. Perhaps history doesn't matter to some; 
in our field -- which is fundamentally based on interpretations of 
historical records -- one would like to see a more positive attitude towards 
scholarly historical interpretation.

I look forward to other reports.

Steve Corrsin






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Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:47:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:53:26 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Uh-oh; or, The Farmer and the Cowman Should Be Friends
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I was a little concerned that I would start a brushfire, but the brushfire I
expected was about the state of ECD in America, etc.
May I say (desperately throwing water, stamping, smothering!) that I hold both
Mr. Hume and Mr. Corrsin in the highest respect? Mr. Hume is one of our very
finest teachers, choreographers, and interpreters; Mr. Corrsin's scholarly work
on sword dance and ritual sword display has been invaluable.

In the fair arbors of Academe, dance is worse than a stepchild--dance of all
sorts is typically laughably underfunded, and in most places dance scholarship
is not even to be considered. Small wonder, then, that most scholars don't know
how to write about historical dance, and don't know what they're looking at when
they examine original sources; small wonder, then, that dancers don't give
evidence of academic discipline and critical doubt satisfactory to professional
scholars. Where dance is concerned, the dancers who can execute the figures and
have something to say about the fit of the music to the movements are engaged in
valuable scholarship; the scholars who have a detailed knowledge of the period
have a great deal to give to the dancers.

I think, if I may speak on behalf of Mr. Hume, that his report was admittedly
subjective and personal--a dispatch from the front--and wonderfully useful and
helpful thereby. I apologize if the questions his report stimulated in me
inadvertently gave rise to needless controversy.

G

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:10:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:10:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance lengths
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010326125541.15008H-100000-AT-
shell1.interlog.com>
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Two questions :

1) When calling a USASU dance, and wanting to repeat it, does anyone have
any recommendations on how to do that?  I'm thinking that dancing it once,
pausing briefly, then dancing it again might be the best solution for this
case, although I generally prefer to avoid pausing unless necessary.  And
a USASUSASU dance sounds kind of silly... 

2) In longways dances, what are some guidelines people use for deciding
when to end it?


Thanks,

Christine

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:30:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:32:06 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance lengths
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b6e53aa5fc22-AT-
[140.186.54.5]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Two questions :
>
>1) When calling a USASU dance, and wanting to repeat it, does anyone have
>any recommendations on how to do that?  I'm thinking that dancing it once,
>pausing briefly, then dancing it again might be the best solution for this
>case, although I generally prefer to avoid pausing unless necessary.  And
>a USASUSASU dance sounds kind of silly...

I keep going if the crowd seems on top of it, stop if they need a little
time to straighten out their internal problems.  Just give them and the
band enough warning.

>
>2) In longways dances, what are some guidelines people use for deciding
>when to end it?

Depends on the dance.  If it's duple on the average we do it about 13
times, but that also depends on whether the dance is a big favorite or a
big bore.  If it's triple we do it about 6 or 7 times through unless it's
Orleans, in which case it can go on a lot longer because the tune's short.

Also, it all always depends on how well the crowd is doing.  If they're
happy and have it down cold, only a couple/three cpls in the group who are
still not totally comfortable, then we let it go a while.  If there is an
insecure couple arriving at the top soon, often we'll give them one chance
at it as actives and stop if they're totally lost, or decide whether to
continue based on how they're doing.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:50:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:55:00 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Astronomy
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20010326135043.00c1c650-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <b6.12ecb47c.27ec010d-AT-
aol.com> <p04330100b6e0894d243f-AT-
[66.31.148.6]>

The longways duple minor dance Jump at the Sun by Scott Higgs can be found
in Scott's collection "Early One Morning."
Sharon Green

At 01:11 AM 3/23/01 -0600, Paul Stamler wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
>
><<A tune, more directly astronomical, but not a dance, 'Jump to the
>Sun' -- one of my favorite contra dance tunes.  It being late at
>night, the author's name eludes me.>>
>
>Actually "Jump at the Sun"; it was written by English squeezebox player John
>Kirkpatrick.
>
>Peace,
>Paul
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:37:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:37:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance lengths
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96r.1010326142609.18054E-100000-AT-
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On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> >1) When calling a USASU dance, and wanting to repeat it, does anyone have
> >any recommendations on how to do that? 
> 
> I keep going if the crowd seems on top of it, stop if they need a little
> time to straighten out their internal problems.  Just give them and the
> band enough warning.

If the U part is a slipping circle, does this affect the answer?  I'd love
to keep going, on the other hand, I don't (yet) have any knee problems or
any other cause for concern. 


Thanks again,

Christine

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:37:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:42:52 -0800
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford conference report
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010326124252.0080e420-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 12:28 PM 3/26/2001 -0500, Steven Corrsin wrote:
>I'll start by saying I didn't attend the Playford conference but hope that 
>someone will provide an *objective* report. The one just sent to this list 
>started with a snide comment evidently referring to the soporific nature of 
>the papers and didn't get any better. I was very disturbed by the tone of 
>the summary provided to this list.

Well I'LL start by saying I was disturbed at the tone of Steve's comments--
the closest to "flaming" that I've seen on this list. I think you
misinterpreted Colin's purpose in providing the report-- he says up front
that it represents his personal views.  I think if you look more closely,
you'll find that he is enthusiastic about the scholarship involved and the
new information he gleaned.  

 Is this an official summary? That is, the 
>author an official spokesman for the conference and its sponsors?

No, of course not. He is a dancer/caller/scholar/enthusiast who went to the
conference and was kind enough to write up some detailed personal
impressions for the benefit of the list.  I for one am extremely grateful
to Colin for his summary since I couldn't attend the conference.  

By the way, I don't believe there IS such a thing as an objective view.
Read the papers if you want the information without the opinions. Even an
"official spokesman's" report if there were one, would reflect bias-- in
summarizing, they'd select the important (to them) points.  

>I thought this was to be, in fact, an academic conference; to condemn 
>academics for being academic is, well, futile at best, and churlish at 
>worst. There is always a tension between the academics and the enthusiasts 
>in a field such as this. (I encounter it in my research on the history of 
>sword dancing.) I can only say that without the academics, the enthusiasts 
>would still have nothing but Sharpie's unfounded opinions of 80 years ago, 
>plus their own tastes, to rely on. 

I think you are unnecessarily touchy on the subject because of your own
experience.  I've taken Colin's reconstruction class at Pinewoods, and
found him to be an academic enthusiast, -- someone who cares deeply about
authenticity, has given a lot of thought to interpreting Playford
correctly, but who is also in touch with the contemporary dance community's
needs. I hear a lot of excitement in Colin's report about some of the ideas
presented.  What I heard him say in that opening line you objected to was
that good research does not have to be cloaked in obscure language to be
respectable.    

>in our field -- which is fundamentally based on interpretations of 
>historical records -- one would like to see a more positive attitude towards 
>scholarly historical interpretation.

Your assumption seems to be that anything presented at a conference is
automatically GOOD scholarship, and that disagreements are a sign of a bad
attitude toward scholarship in general.  I don't find it necessary for
someone to agree with every point of every scholar in order to show respect
for scholarship. Some scholars get it wrong! 
 
Colin teaches Michael Barraclough's version of Nonesuch and does a great
lecture in Dance Reconstruction defending it as historically more accurate
than the version we commonly do. (He convinced me, and I put the
Barraclough version on our ball program)  His own Playford with a
Difference takes a look at some dances Sharp misinterpreted. If Colin
disagreed with the Barraclough interpretation of Newcastle, its certainly
not because he's opposed to scholarly reinterpretations!  Far more likely
is that he's taken his own scholarly look at the originals, and disagrees
with this particular interpretation.  Scholars get to do that-- disagree
with each other.  

>I look forward to other reports.

Me too, but not for the same reason.  Just hungry for more information,
since I couldn't go to the conference.

For example, I was interested to hear that even the early editions were in
movable type!  I seem to remember Christine Helwig saying that the earliest
editions of Playford did not have movable type, but cut the whole page at
once.  This meant that errors tended to be repeated in later editions,
since it was costly to remake the entire page just to correct a single word
or to omit a repeat sign.   

Victoria Bestock
 
 
Please check out our WEB site at  http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:15:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 23:15:51 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford conference report
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200103262215.XAA02075-AT-
galahad.tgis.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Monday, March 26, 2001 at 12:42:52 PM, Victoria Bostock wrote:

> Colin teaches Michael Barraclough's version of Nonesuch and does a great
> lecture in Dance Reconstruction defending it as historically more accurate
> than the version we commonly do. (He convinced me, and I put the
> Barraclough version on our ball program)  His own Playford with a
> Difference takes a look at some dances Sharp misinterpreted. If Colin
> disagreed with the Barraclough interpretation of Newcastle, its certainly
> not because he's opposed to scholarly reinterpretations!  Far more likely
> is that he's taken his own scholarly look at the originals, and disagrees
> with this particular interpretation.  Scholars get to do that-- disagree
> with each other.  

Whilst I obviously disagree with Colin's views about my interpretation of Newcastle, as someone who was at the conference I would say that he has put forward a useful summary of what went on.  I hope that he is not put off doing a similar excercise on Sunday's sessions.

The intention is that all the papers will be published in a single Conference Proceedings and everyone will then be able to judge for themeselves.  As soon as my workshop on Newcastle is reorganised into a formal paper format for the proceedings I will publish it on the web and advise the list.

My overall view based on Saturday (I missed most of Sunday as I had to be on my way back to the US) is that we are still too descriptive and lack analysis.  Many points were put forward which would have been valid if prefaced by comments about "when, where and who" but as presented lacked accademic rigour. 

Michael Barraclough 

PS:  Thanks Victoria for using my Nonesuch (I had no idea it was so well travelled!).  

--
Do you VisualMail?

Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now!

http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:58:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:34:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dance lengths
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01K1NNERMQA49UMYSN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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> Two questions :

> 1) When calling a USASU dance, and wanting to repeat it, does anyone have
> any recommendations on how to do that?  I'm thinking that dancing it once,
> pausing briefly, then dancing it again might be the best solution for this
> case, although I generally prefer to avoid pausing unless necessary.  And
> a USASUSASU dance sounds kind of silly...

How many Up-a-double Siding Arming Siding Up-a-double dances are there?
And if there are really five figures, do you need to repeat it at all?

I'll generalize from your question to talk about repeating dances that have
finite numbers of figures and which end with the same figure as they began.

I don't want to make unreasonable generalizations, since I have no always-good
answer. Some specifics: the thing to do with _Step Stately_ is to not 
repeat it at all, for example, since the Sharp interpretation has a very
definite end to it, and because there's plenty of dance there. To do 
Sellenger's Round twice through, make it clear to the musicians that's what
you're doing (so they don't send ending signals at the wrong time), and then
elide one of the identical beginning/ending figures (slipping circle) and 
choruses, so that it becomes slipping circle - forward a double - siding - 
arming (repeat all four) slipping circle (last chorus) done, which is usually
pretty satisfactory, but also usually requires prompting to make the transition
work.

Incidentally (off the main thread because it's just a USA dance) the Regency
people like to repeat _Black Nag_ from new positions, so there's a long-enough
pause for the ones to move down to the bottom and the other two couples to move
up one place.  Sometimes that cycle of three repeats is  repeated twice.

So my advice, worth what you pay for it, is to do what works with the
particular dance you're considering and the crowd you have, rather than trying
to apply a general rule in all cases.  I know you didn't ask for a general
rule.


> 2) In longways dances, what are some guidelines people use for deciding
> when to end it?

When you're calling for dancers from England, after 7 times.  (But ask if
they'd like a few more turns.)

If your lines aren't too long, when the original top couple is back 
at the top (let them come back in as ones once).  This one is nice because
it scales with the number of people in the set, and (as I think contradances
show) what makes people tired is seeing the same faces over and over, not
executing the same agreeable pattern 7 times vs. 13 times.  You certainly don't
want to run a duple longways as many times for five couples as for ten - unless
it's just the right night and the right crowd to do that.  You have to sniff
the air.

When you strongly suspect it's about to fall apart.

When people will still be sorry not to get to do more of it, not relieved 
that it's finally over.  

When everybody who's going to get it has gotten it, plus about two rounds so
they can enjoy it.  (Don't want to give them that "just when I got it it was 
over!" feeling.)  Balance that with the 'stopping it before people are just
relieved that it's over' guideline.

When the band is flagging.  If your fiddler's tendonitis is acting up and
you've got a really notey dance in a key he doesn't like, you might want to
cut down the number of repeats.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA   94025
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:22:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:22:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Musicians, care and feeding of (was: Re: Dance lengths)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0103261710580.4920-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> When the band is flagging.  If your fiddler's tendonitis is acting up and
> you've got a really notey dance in a key he doesn't like, you might want to
> cut down the number of repeats.

Thanks, Alan!  That's a very good point.  I'd add: if the band is either
playing well below its usual level of quality, or going way off the deep
end in attempts to find interesting things to do with the tune, it might
indicate that you've got a tune that is either not a very good tune or not
a tune your band is having any luck presenting, and in either case it might
be in everyone's best interest to run shorter rather than longer.  I don't
mean to suggest that the band should be in charge of how long dances run,
by any means, but if they're flailing, it's a factor to consider along with
all the others.

On an only marginally related topic: if your band has a fiddle player in
it, something the caller might want to consider is whether the tunes have
notes that go above the first position.  Some fiddle players are fine with
shifting position, but some aren't, and it kind of puts the latter kind on
the spot to be asked to play, for example, "Corelli's Maggot."  The highest
note in first position is the B that's written above the first ledger line
above the treble clef staff.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:34:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 21:29:45 -0500
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: True North Dance weekend report
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p05010408b6e5ab8b9532-AT-
[192.168.1.101]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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There was **another** English dance event going on this weekend!

Just returned from the weekend in London Ontario Canada where we had
a splendid time dancing with our Canadian friends and
friends-of-Canadians as well.

Friday night was a more informal and relaxed evening of dancing with
a variety of callers.  Nice introduction to the weekend and chance to
meet people.

Saturday we had a morning and afternoon session led by Brad Foster -
first on style and the second on favorites, oops that would be
favourites.  In the evening we had a splendid dinner served in the
same "Great Hall" where we had been and would be dancing.  Since we
were already in our evening finery it was very festive.   It truly
was a great hall - very wonderful place to dance -- big windows, high
ceilings, fancy floor, portraits of college presidents or VIPs.

Then on to the evening ball!  A very good time was had - nice dance
selections and very sociable.

Sunday (at a civilized hour I might add!) we had an afternoon session
for experienced dancers.  Got to do some "old" sticklers and some
dances I was not familar with.  That's always fun and refreshing.

All in all a good time -- kudos to the organizers (members of True
North) and to the musicians (The Rigged Ship) and to Brad for jobs
well done.  Everyone was friendly and involved and welcoming.  The
emphasis was on having fun, enjoying each other and the dance and
having fun. We enjoyed visiting with friends and meeting new friends
as well.  There was a bit of singing at the dance sessions and a
shape-note session on Sunday.  There was also a brief performance by
the local Playford performance group at the Saturday evening ball.-
an enjoyable break from the action.

If your future schedule allows, I'd recommend this annual event.  The
price seemed very reasonable (especially, unfortunately, if you are
in the US) and included dinner on Saturday.

-- 
Mary Beth Goodman
Quilter

http://www.quiltr.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:57:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 00:52:51 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dances
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01ab01c0b68b$6c213980$45e4520c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Anyone who's willing to reply privately to assist with descriptions of any
of the following dances:

Bury Fair
The Ragg
The Spaniard
Christina
The Physical Snob
Freeford Gardens
I Care Not for these Ladies
Yellow Stockings

or info on the best sources for descriptions.

Thanks,

Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 01:29:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:27:10 -0500
From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Conference
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <200103270429_MC2-CA47-766A-AT-
compuserve.com>
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Playford Conference - Day 2

The saga continues - but remember, this is just my personal view of the
proceedings.  Other people will have quite different opinions.


Peter Bohlin:  Country Dances from a Swedish perspective (1780 - ca. 1810)

Birte Hofmann-Cabenda:  English Country Dances in northern Germany around
1800

I'm afraid I didn't get to either of these talks, being more concerned with
getting at least some sleep.


Hannelore Unfried:  Descendants of The English Dancing Master in Austria

She was talking about variants of Sir Roger de Coverley (Virginia Reel) and
came up with this dance in England, America, France, Spain and Italy as
well as Austria.  It was interesting to see how well-travelled he was, but
I didn't feel that a list of all these names and dates made for a paper. 
However, I don't class myself as an academic, so I may have missed
something.
The audience had to sing her the "original" tune (the slip-jig) as she
didn't know it had its own tune in England.


Derek Schofield:  
"Little Ballets" - Playford, Sharp and Douglas Kennedy in the 20th-century
folk dance revival

Derek is known as an iconoclast, and I expected his paper to be
controversial, which it would have been if he'd read it at the EFDSS AGM. 
However, he was talking to people with more of a sense of history so it
wasn't so controversial to them.  His title came from a festival in some
northern country.  "It was at this Northern Festival that the English team
was asked whether England had any social folk dances.  When we pointed to
the Playford Country Dances which figured largely in our programme, to our
astonishment these were dismissed by the Northerners as 'Ah, these are only
beautiful little ballets'.  It was then that we realised how far we had
strayed from tradition both as to the form of dance and style of
performance.  We had in fact created a way of dancing pleasurable enough
but sophisticated rather than "folk".  ...  After that experience we were
always careful to ensure that our traditional country dances, at that time
few in number, were invariably presented when performing overseas".  Helen
& Douglas Kennedy, 1961.

Derek talked about Cecil Sharp's rift with Mary Neal, with Sharp wanting
the dances to be accurately and skillfully presented and Neal wanting the
dancers to enjoy themselves.  He made the interesting point that from
Sharp's notebooks it could be seen that some of the traditional dances in
the first volume of his "Country Dance Book" were published only weeks
after he had collected them, and many of them were from the same place. 
[It seemed to me a strange echo of John Playford rushing out his first
edition before a rival upstaged him.]  In his work on Morris and Folk Song
Sharp rejected historical sources in favour of collecting from the working
class people who were still performing them.  But with dance he took the
opposite approach, and after CDB1 did not publish any more traditional
dances.  Sharp's view was that the dances for a set number of couples were
older than the longways for as many as will, and therefore a purer form of
English Dance.  He wanted to rescue ballet and ballroom dancing from their
artificiality and substitute an English form, and saw his dances as a tool
of social regeneration.

In the 20-year period from the death of Sharp to the end of the second
world war, the folk revival was creating rather than recreating.  But on
the morris side traditional dancers and musicians had to be brought in. 
The revival had become lifeless; musicians were learning the tunes from
Sharp's notation but not playing them with any lift.  [I've found similar
problems where school teachers teach their children folk dance from a book
without ever having done it themselves.]  William Kimber - the traditional
fiddler who had started Sharp's interest in morris - was brought in to show
the new musicians how it should be done, and the revival changed to reflect
tradition.  But this didn't happen with the social dancing.  Douglas
Kennedy (who took over the EFDS on the death of Sharp) complained in 1931
about the lack of dance vitality - that people should be dancing with their
whole bodies, not just their legs - and blamed the examination system for
rigidity and standardisation.  He wanted to inject more enjoyment into the
dance, and to popularise it; there was a need for new (young) people [sound
familiar?].  After the war there was a need for dances which were easy to
learn, and to get away from pattern making.  Kennedy published the
Community Dance Manuals, which contain traditional, traditional-style and
contra dances.  The square dance craze swept the country and he capitalised
on this, bringing from America the idea of a caller who could teach dances
on the fly, rather than requiring people to go to classes first and learn
them.  This indeed brought in new young people (especially men, who were
scarce following the war), but there was much opposition from the existing
members.  William Ganiford, a well-respected musician, felt that
"Cumberland Square Eight" and "Nottingham Swing" should just be
stepping-stones to the Playford dances.  In fact there were two unjustified
assumptions: that new dancers would want to graduate to Playford, and that
the style and content of Playford dancing of the 20's and 30's would
continue into the 40's and 50's.  The Playford and Traditional dancing did
indeed influence each other, but they tended to stay as two different
groups.  EFDSS was reluctant to accept the changes brought in by the
ceilidh movement of the 70's, with its emphasis on stepping, energy, simple
dances and enjoyment.


Gene Murrow:  Playford in America, 3rd figure

Gene took as a metaphor the three Playford introductions.  The first figure
was keeping Up.  The colonials took their dances with them when they
emigrated from England, and as they established themselves they were keen
to follow cultivated society and learn the newest dances from England.  The
second figure was Siding with history.  Sharp went over to the USA and
lectured and taught; he also sent teachers over to train the new dancers
and teachers.

I forget how Arming came into it, but his point was that ECD in the States
is now developing independent of England.  Pat Shaw's visit in 1974 showed
people another look at Playford - Sharp did not have the last word  on how
Playford should be danced.  This gave the American people permission to
embrace Playford dance as their own.  Gene detailed the events now taking
place in the States - camps, weekends, balls, training sessions.  He
stressed that live music was nearly always used, that bands usually have a
piano (rare in England), were influenced by chamber music and were strong
on sight-reading and improvisation.  Of course he played a recording by
"Bare Necessities" as an example of this.

Gene went through the reasons why people in the States dance English.  He
mentioned the intellectual challenge of getting through the patterns, the
music, the flow of the dance, the social side of the activity, and the
creation of community.  He felt that the fact of changing partners for
every dance was a major factor, and showed slides of events attesting to
the fact that the English Dance community has replaced the physical
community and the extended family for many dancers.

Gene was plagued by a slide projector which refused to function, but kept
his cool.  He showed slides of Pinewoods, well-known dancers, musicians,
composers and choreographers, and explained that there was a demand for
American creations in the Playford style.  At the end he said something
like "so we come to the last slide" and the slide popped out of the
projecter and jumped a foot in the air!  I fear this may be some people's
abiding memory of Gene's talk, but he certainly came across as an
enthusiastic proponent of dancing and dance writing in America.


Colin Hume:  Playford interpretation today

I talked about the fact that initially Sharp was the only one who
interpreted (reconstructed) Playford dances, and his word was law.  In fact
it wasn't Sharp so much as his followers who were dogmatic - Sharp wanted
to replace his invented "swirl" siding with in-to-line siding which he had
come to believe was correct, but Maud Karpeles would not let him.  Now
things have changed, and many people are producing their own versions of
dances, so I felt it was time to ask some questions.  How acceptable is it
to put in changes and additions which the interpreter KNOWS are wrong?  I
gave some examples, ranging from the lead to the bottom at the end of
"Fandango" to the conversion of "Right and Left" to a morris hey in one of
Ken Sheffield's dances, and spent some time comparing three versions of
"Irish Lamentation" (Tom Cook, Colin Hume and Nic Broadbridge) with the
original.  Gene says Nic was asleep during much of my talk, so I didn't get
any irate interruptions!


Choice of two workshops
A  Nic Broadbridge:  Playing music for country dances of the 17th and 18th
centuries
B  Jorgen Schou-Pedersen:  Dubreil's "Contradanses" (Darmstadt, 1718)

I took the easy option, rather than risk falling asleep myself, and played
piano in Nic's workshop.  I don't know that people learnt much, but perhaps
that's unfair - I'm used to the way we play this music in England and I
sometimes join in with a band.  Nic took six tunes and spent ten minutes on
each, with some talk about the tune, how it related to tha dance, and how
Nic thought it should be played - then off we went.  I enjoyed it, though
two of them were in G minor which I'm not too happy with!


Hazel Dennison:  Jigg saw puzzle

Hazel's mission was to explore the three "jigs" in the first edition, by
which she meant the three containing the word "jig": Millison's Jig (3
couples longways), Kemp's Jig" (3 couples circle) and "Lord Carnarvon's
Jig" (4 couples longways).  She had not spotted that "Lord Carnarvon's Jig"
is actually a reel, which I'm afraid damaged her credibility seriously as
far as I was concerned - she said it was in 6:4 time rather than 6:8, but
it certainly isn't.  She asked the question "What is a jig" and produced
evidence from various sources, including the possibilities of a
recreational dance for people of all classes and the interlude for a play. 
[I had thought it was just a general word for dance, ignoring the 6:8 or
9:8 connotation, but apparently there's more to it than that.]  Her display
team performed all three dances using a variety of steps, which certainly
made them look very different from the way we would dance them, but it all
seemed pure conjecture to me.


Diana Jewitt:  Gym knickers  and street cred

Diana is Teacher Training Manager for EFDSS, and talked about where the
traditional dance stands in education in today's multicultural nation of
England.  She was lively and enthusiastic, which was just as well or we
would all have fallen asleep - she told me afterwards that she had all the
notes written out but realised she couldn't just stand there and read them,
so she spoke from the heart and referred to the notes occasionally.

In the education world in England,  Dance is considered part of Sport, and
she gets lots of paperwork referring to trainers and leagues which she
struggles to relate to her situation.  She began with maypole dancing,
which many academics would dismiss as a German invention.  In England,
maypole dancing came from Whitelands College in the 1890's, which trained
lots of influential Victorian lady schoolmistresses, most of whom went
straignt from the college to become headmistresses, so good was the
training.  Diana talked of the people who dismiss maypole dancing and said
plaintively "We've been doing these dances in England since 1890.  How long
do we have to do them before they're considered English?!"  Schools across
the world do maypole dancing - and in its wake come country, sword, morris
and even molly - so maybe we shouldn't knock maypole dancing so much.

Diana also mentioned the rift between Sharp and Mary Neal.  [Ann Daye said
there were all sorts of cross-links between the varions papers, and many of
the speakers would probably revise their notes on the basis of what they
had learnt from the others, which she felt was a major achievement.]  Mary
Neal's girls displayed their dances at suffragette meetings, which
middle-class Sharp would have hated.  In fact Sharp's sister was a
suffragette and went to prison for breaking a window at the law courts [or
somewhere similar]; she was released just before Sharp founded the English
Folk Dance Society.  [This sort of information makes me realise how
ignorant I am of the background of what I do, and realise also that there
were all sort of pressures on the way this dancing developed which on the
surface are totally unrelated to Dance.]  Mary Neal allowed the Folk
Process [first mention of that all weekend] to modify the dances according
to the wishes of the dancers - and they were working class, very different
from Sharp's disciples who were middle class and upper middle class.  In a
way, Mary Neal was responsible for today's ceilidh dancing.

In the second half of the century, education was struggling with
multiculturalism.  Now schools have visiting groups displaying dances from
many cultures, and Diana gets phone calls asking whether there's any
English equivalent.  [I'm glad she's there at Cecil Sharp House to answer
the questions in her usual positive manner and send information and
contacts as required; there was a time when you phoned the House to ask
about morris bells and were answered with "What are morris bells?"!]


After a short break to remove the chairs and install the band, we had a
final dance with The Orange and Blue, who played extremely well.  In
contrast to the authentic sound of the Broadside Band (fiddle,
clavichord/recorder, lute and ?bass viol) we had the modern English sound
of accordian, bass guitar, guitar and two fiddles.  I called the dance with
Andrew Shaw and Gene Murrow.  Everybody was exhausted, but we had a good
number dancing right up to the end.  I taught my version of Newcastle (as
published in CDSS News, except that I've replaced the step and honour in
the second figure by a set, and you pass right shoulders both times).  I
was surprised to find that most of the floor had never danced Newcastle
[that's academics for you], but I got most of them through it - I even
persuaded Jeremy Barlow to dance, which I was very pleased about.  Gene
called three dances by American choreographers, Andrew stuck to 18th
century repertoire which he's best known for, and I finished off with two
examples of the continuing Playford tradition - Jamaica, originally a
longways but arranged as a 4-couple set dance by Tom Cook, and my own
"Oxford Circus" - a new dance to an existing Playford tune, using the three
introductions.

As I said before, I thought the whole weekend was amazingly successful, and
I hope we don't have to wait another 350 years for the next one!

Colin Hume
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I'd like to add my voice to the clamouring throng thanking Colin for giving 
us such lively coverage of the conference.  But I was disappointed to hear 
nothing about Julia Sutton's "Lorin and Playford" wrokshop.  I know Colin 
can't be in two places at once (omit snotty remark here.)  Can anyone who 
attended give us a precis?

yours for the personal, nay, idiosyncratic,  P.O.V.

Nilos
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Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 19:27:29 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Nova Scotia
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I'm going to be in Nova Scotia May 5-17, 2001 -
does anyone know of any English dance (or other types of dance) there?
(I did find out about the Scottish dance May 12) but am hoping to find some
more dance opportunites so I don't go into withdrawal from lack of dancing!
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

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Thanks, Colin.  That was very interesting, indeed.

Perhaps we can have the same from Gene, and maybe even from Julia?

I know it's a lot of work, but I can assure you it's easier it will be
easier to just do it as soon as you wake up long enough to start, than to
wait until it's "right".

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
http://www.beetlecat.org/results/99champs.html
http://www.beetlecat.org/store.html#yrbook
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


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Nilos's subject line, as above, would make a great name for a dance. 
I've identified the title.  Will somebody write the dance?

Mike Franch
________________________________________________________________
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Nilos wrote on Wednesday, March 28, 2001 2:12 AM

> But I was disappointed to hear
> nothing about Julia Sutton's "Lorin and Playford" wrokshop.  I know
Colin
> can't be in two places at once (omit snotty remark here.)  Can anyone
who
> attended give us a precis?
> 

I too cannot give any first hand report as Julia's workshop was on at
the same time as mine.  This was unfortunate programming - it would have
been better to have two papers on at the same time as these will be
published whereas the workshops are more ephemeral.  

I heard no comments of substance about Julia's workshop but did receive
at least half a dozen unsolicited and virtually identical comments
regarding the stated or implicit assumption that the only work of any
note being done (on Lorin) was that in the USA.  This clearly annoyed
many people as Lorin is well known, researched and used outside of the
USA.

Michael Barraclough

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Hi Dianna:

> I'm going to be in Nova Scotia May 5-17, 2001 -
> does anyone know of any English dance (or other types of dance) there?

My Playford dance group meets on Tuesdays and May 8th
is officially the last class of the season.

You are welcome to visit; we would be delighted to see
you. But you will have to accept us as we are!

It is held at the North Woodside Community Centre,
230 Pleasant Street, Dartmouth, N.S.

My contact number is 835-5154.

Regards, John

================================================================================
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Various replies to issues raised by my report on the Playford Conference:

To Graham Christian: please don't worry that it was your posting which
stirred up Steve Corrsin to object to my report; I'm quite sure that it was
not.  Anyone who publishes anything runs the risk that people will object
to it for all sorts of reasons.

Obviously I need to expand on my remark about ECD (especially in the
States) being on the decline.  I hope that people will not take this as an
attack by an outsider and flame me some more.  I lived in the States for a
year, and my main reason for doing this was to experience the contra and
English dance scene as a regular.  I found plenty to enjoy, but also things
which disturbed me in the way they were each developing.

With contra dancing (to be slightly off-list for a moment) it bothered me
(more than I had expected) that people just wanted to swing everybody in
sight and ignore the music.  I was also staggered at the number of women
who talked about injuries they had received while contra dancing.  And I
feel that exactly the same thing has happened as happened to English
Country Dance - the same few figures endlessly repeated.  It seems to me
that every contra dance has to have a partner swing, a neighbor swing,
everybody moving all the time, duple minor, improper.  And I find an
evening by George Marshall really boring - the dances just merge into each
other and sometimes he doesn't even bother to give them titles - they're
just generic contras.  Yet he's far more popular than Tony Parkes, who
provides the variety I crave (and squares too).

Yes, there is a lot more use of steps in England than in the States.  Not
indeed the contretemps assemblees and other steps noted by Feuillet, but
the skip-change step, the single-skip step and the slip-step.  In my
experience (based on dancing at Pinewoods, Buffalo Gap, Mendocino, Boston,
New York, Philadelphia, Princeton, San Francisco, Ann Arbor and many other
places that I can't remember, but not pretending to be someone who has
danced the length and breadth of the States) almost everything is walked
these days.  I heard someone say to a group of beginners "All English is
slow and gentle".  True, there is a tendency for dances to be walked more
in England than they were twenty years ago, but it's even more pronounced
in the States.

I would say the dances danced in the States are simpler than those danced
in England - of course this is a generalisation.  When Gary Roodman writes
a dance with the three Playford introductions he always uses the same
chorus for all three figures.  I came in for a lot of criticism at
Pinewoods last year (English-American Week and English Week) for making my
evening programs too complicated, and I was doing just what I would have
done at a Festival in England.  "People want simple, well-known dances", I
was told by Brad Foster during E&A Week, and the evaluation forms from
English Week said the same thing.  We seemed to be dancing the same small
repertoire in the evenings at both weeks, sometimes preceded by the same
dance in a class that day, and when it came to campers night many of them
appeared again.  Is this "in decline"?  It depends on your perspective, and
of course mine will be different.  Renata and I feel that if you're tired
after a day's dancing and the caller does dances without much challenge,
you tend to feel even more tired and not want to dance, whereas if there's
something to make you think, you perk up and enjoy yourself more.  I'm not
suggesting that an evening dance should be a workshop, but I feel it goes
to the other extreme at Pinewoods.  And I know that I'm in a minority there
- the general opinion was that when people are tired they don't want to
struggle with new material; they want to relax with dances they know well
and can dance well.

The other simplification (which parallels what happened in England between
1651 and 1700) is the dropping of set dances in favor of longways for as
many as will.  In England we don't do nearly as many longways dances in an
evening.  In the States it's considered wrong to do two set dances in a
row.  One person wrote on the evaluation form for my "Unusual English"
class: "Too many set dances".  I don't know why he/she didn't go the whole
way and say "Too many unusual dances"!  But again, is this a "decline"? 
Different people will have different opinions, just as they did between
1651 and 1700.  I get bored by doing lots of longways dances lots of times,
but Gene Murrow made the point in his session that because people in the
States change partner for every dance they want to be able to enjoy dancing
with that person rather than struggling to get through the figure.

I wasn't fair in attributing the speeding up of the music to ECD in the
States.  What I should have said is that in the States (again I can only
generalise from what I have experienced) there seems to be a "standard"
English speed, or perhaps a small range.  If I call slow dances I'm told by
good dancers in the Boston area that "nobody can dance that slow".  But in
England I don't hear that.  Of course it's harder to dance slowly than to
dance fast; it needs more control, and any mistakes are much more visible. 
And again if I teach energetic dances I'm told that these aren't what is
wanted.  When I call a rant or hornpipe, or even a lively dance with a skip
or skip-change, I'm told "If we wanted that sort of thing we'd go to a
contra dance".  But that just isn't true; when did you ever do any of those
things at a contra dance?  What they mean is that they see English Dance as
flowing along to a beautiful tune in triple-time.  Bob Archer came under
attack for saying that at Pinewoods in 1999, but it seems to me there's a
lot of truth in it.  What you have done in the States is take a very narrow
selection of dance styles and say "That's what we mean by English".  Of
course the beautiful triple-time dances are part of English, but there's so
much more to it than that.  I don't want to do rants all evening, but
neither do I want to drift around all evening.  There's surely room for
many different styles and speeds.

Of course, it tends to be self-perpetuating; the people who like this style
stay and introduce other like-minded dancers; the ones who don't like it go
off and do Scottish or contra.  But it seems to me that you in the States
are facing the same problem that we have in England - an aging population
of English dancers and the danger that the whole thing will die out in ten
or twenty years.  Are you getting new young dancers to your dances?  If
they walked past the hall and saw you walking round in circles, would they
be encouraged to join in?

I'm sorry if all of this sounds like at attack.  I'm just as critical of
dancers in England, but maybe you in the States will resent it because I'm
an outsider.  I hope I haven't offended any of you by this - and I'm not
going to blame Graham Christian for asking me to explain what I meant!

----------------------------------------

To Steve Corrsin - sorry I stirred up your academic sensibilities. 
Victoria Bestock has already answered your points - thank you Vicky.

----------------------------------------

To Howard Mitchell - I assume that what Jennifer Kiek meant by the "English
Folk Roots" attitude is that people accepted Sharp's assertion that these
were old English tunes and clearly did not have any foreign antecedents. 
But that's a complete guess; I just wrote down what I believe she said. 
Maybe the printed papers will explain more.

----------------------------------------

To Mike Barraclough - thank you for your comments.  No doubt we will still
continue to agree on some things and disagree on others; that's what living
in a free country is all about.

----------------------------------------

To all those who thanked me for sending in my report (in a pretty exhausted
state, I might add), thank you for your encouraging comments.  As Mike
Barraclough said, the conference proceedings will eventually be published
and you can read the papers in the authors' words.  But that won't be till
the end of June; I know people wanted to hear about it as soon as possible.
 

Send your orders for the Conference Proceedings to:

DHDS Secretary, 17 Well Lane, Stock, INGATESTONE, CM4 9LT, UK.

The price is 12 pounds plus postage (Europe 1 pound, rest of world 3
pounds) and they accept visa and mastercard - you must give the
cardholder's name exactly as on the card, and the address as registered for
that card.

I will put my report on my web site at http://www.colinhume.freeserve.co.uk
until the official proceedings are published, and I expect it to appear in
the next issue of English Dance & Song Magazine.  One correction (apart
from various typos which you would expect) was that I said most of the
floor had never danced "Newcastle".  According to three reliable
eye-witnesses, it was only a quarter who had not danced it.  And the
"arming" reference in Gene's talk was "Embracing the Tradition".

Colin Hume

This message has been reviewed by Gene & Susan Murrow and pronounced fit to
publish in the United States of America.

Anno Domino MMI
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Just trying to figure out how to thank you, Colin, for your astute analysis
of what's going on here.  In Boston, we had a rubric of doing a set dance
and a longways dance and continuing that way all evening.  In the late '70s
one of the "new" callers chose to breach that tradition, which I personally
thought was not a good idea.  Noone called him on it, that I was ever aware
of.

What a mistake.

One has to have guidelines and set standards but it's so easy to "wait and
see" and by the time you've "seen", the tradition or precedent has started
to fizzle or it just doesn't seem worth "bucking a new trend", being seen
as a grouch, or someone tied to the past, or controlling, or unable to
change or such.

Sort of American society in microcosm, actually.

As for skipping, which was devoutly maintained in Boston as part of the
"way it was always done" mentality, as the leaders have gotten older and
heavier or more cranky in the joints, and as the crowd has grown and halls
have gotten more and more expensive, the space needed for skipping has
become dearer.  Mostly I think it's the creaky joints and added weight that
have undermined the skipping, because it's never enough for the leader to
tell the crowd to skip.  The leaders have to skip too.

But then there was Pat's visit, too, which called the skip into question
back in '74.  From him we began to understand just how much the skip was an
invention by Sharp, and the extent to which, if such a thing happened at
all it was a skip-change.

Not until you came to Boston did I see a skip change that looked
approachable as a movement, and somehow so ineffably English.

Try talking about siding!  Opening a can of worms, let me tell you!

As for contra dancing, I remember going to Old Songs, way back in 1984 or
1985 and going to a contra dance there in which the band sat in a circle on
the stage and never looked at the dancers at all.  I still can't imagine
what they thought they were doing up there, but it wasn't playing for
dancing.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gft-pics/ef-notes.htm
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Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:34:05 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:39:49 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: The ECD Climate
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Let me say that I find Mr. Hume's remarks stimulating and intriguing--let me add
my very humble, narrow, wrong-end-of-telescope $.02.
On contra dance:

I think I have been spoiled by some very good and rather intellectual callers--I
could name, in addition to Mr. Parkes, Chris Ricciotti, Ruth Sylvester, Dan
Pearl, Laura Johannes, Lisa Greenleaf, Linda Leslie, Sue Rosen--just for
starters. All of these have, at one time or another, called dances or whole
evenings that have delighted my mind as much as my body. I agree that there is a
kind of inevitability about at least a partner swing in most contras, and
perhaps also a neighbor swing--but there has been a great deal of ingenuity
demonstrated in *how*, and *when*, these swings are arrived at. It is true that
perhaps too many contras are, as Mr. Hume describes, DM improper--but then,
there is perhaps a burden on callers to call TM, or Chorus Jig, or 4-facing-4
dances such as Devil's Backbone whenever possible.

On English Country Dance:

My perceptions here differ somewhat from Mr Hume's here. In Boston, it seems to
me that the Boston Centre has an immense repertoire; the Jamaica Plain dance's
repertoire is smaller, but still not noticeably small. Glancing again over the
program from the recent ball, I see dances such as Michael and All Angels; Slof
Galliard; The Merry, Merry Milkmaids; The Merry Salopians; Winter Solstice. Are
these, strictly speaking, *easy* dances? Perhaps they are; perhaps any number of
you will tell me, Well, *that*'s not hard, once you know it! You just go here,
and here, and here, and here, see? I would say that of course they are not
difficult once you know what they're about--but isn't that what knowledge is? I
would also say that they are not easy as Take a Dance is easy, or Hole in the
Wall is easy. Is there some absolute uppermost tier of difficulty I'm missing
here? Yes, some of Fried Herman's dances are several notches more difficult than
any of these--but how much difficulty is required before we can consider
ourselves non-decadent English Country Dancers? Are we looking for, shall we
say, the difficulty of *Finegans Wake* versus the difficulty of *The Wings of
the Dove* or *Mrs Dalloway*? *Lulu* versus *Four Saints in Three Acts*? [I know,
I know: all you have to do with *FW* is get jokes in four languages! all you
have to do with *Lulu* is hear tonerows and partial tonerows! Uh-huh.]

That said, I feel hungry for challenges at times too, and I don't believe in
aiming always for the lowest common denominator. In an American evening of ECD,
where we call only ECD, and that without much interval for laughing and
chatting, we must "entertain": keep the new or more uncertain dancers from
getting too frustrated--but also keep our more experienced dancers
interested--and that's a considerable challenge. Plus, I am also a fervent
believer in set dances. But I also resisted them when I was relatively new to
dancing. Dancing more of them changed my views. My most successful ventures in
set dances always happen when a kind of group mind develops within the set: we
all become equally determined to understand and execute the dance as well as
possible, together. And then the thanks to the set at the end is genuine. It
never hurts for the caller to say, or imply, that it helps to look around at all
the other dancers in a set before you begin--it helps all the dancers to commit
to working together, at least for the next five or ten minutes.

And I agree that the range of tempi is too narrow--and I certainly hear grousing
when I want to call a dance outside that range. Just last night, in fact, I
called The Spring. Slowly. And you should have heard the band, and then the
dancers, groan--but they did it, and I think, for the most part, liked it. And,
contrariwise, I have heard groans when I have called Knives and Forks at an
*allegro-vivo*-ish sort of tempo...And I agree that there are far too many newer
dances now that involve simply swanning about to waltz-tunes (I'm guilty of
writing them too!), not enough crisp movement, jig tunes, duple-meter tunes, and
so forth--but the phenomenon is not new--think of Bare Necessities or Quite
Carried Away. Yet, our dancers at JP don't object when we call lively dances, or
dances that ask for skips or skip-changes.

It seems to me that I meet many dancers who enjoy challenging dances, fast
dances, etc. Are they the majority of any crowd? Probably not--nor should we
expect them to be. Many of the dancers who want only easy dances, or swooping
dances, I suspect, are just passing through. It may take them a couple of years
to complete the pass--but when they perceive that Step Stately and Fandango are
also at the heart of the tradition, they will start to drift away.

So, of those who remain--to touch upon Mr Hume's last point--are there, will
there be, enough to keep the tradition alive? Well, I wonder how many will seem
like enough, and how young they have to be for us to feel encouraged. Many of my
good dance friends are in their thirties or early forties, a few a little
younger--is that young enough? The JP dance commands an attendance of, broadly,
20-40 per evening--is that enough? the Boston Centre dances are somewhat
larger--will we consider them to have failed if in twenty years they have
dropped to the size of the JP dance? Also--to address a kind of social
psychology--we should not be surprised that many people come around to ECD in
their thirties and forties. In one's teens and twenties, one is highly likely to
hue as closely as possible to popular trends; later, it occurs to you that it
would be nice to look into people's faces; to hear music and move to it without
damaging the eardrums; to seek out communities that have a greater affinity than
all being twenty-four and single. It is possible that tomorrow's dancers are
going to raves now, isn't it?

And if not, ECD has already shown a remarkable ability to revive from
near-complete moribundity, like the Jerusalem plant. I think it's fair to say
that it had died, been buried, lost all flesh from the yellowed bones, before
the Sharp revival--and look at it now, almost a century later. [I don't discount
the possibility that someone, somewhere, was half-secretly doing Drops of Brandy
and the like at the time of Sharp's revival--but I don't think the same can be
said of Upon a Summer's Day and the other Playford and post-Playford creations].

In sum, I think that the evidence for the decline is mixed. Is the climate
changing? Of course: it always is. In the period when many of these dances were
written, most people still believed that while everything above the orbit of the
moon was fixed, everything below it, including our mudball, was subject to
change. But perhaps the news is not all bad.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  01880
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:42:15 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:33:16 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Astronomy addition and thanks
To: ECD-AT-
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Yes, thanks for all the astronomy related titles.  One more *I'll* add to
the list (for those who make lists), Colin Hume's "The Astronomer".
It's in Dances With a Difference, Vol 2.

Unrelated thought -- We're all enjoying many of Colin's wonderful
recent dances, but do look back at the older ones.  My own
suggestion, his alternately beautiful and exciting "Valentine's Day
Massacre".

+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com ; members.nbci.com/rounds
Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:56:16 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:55:48 -0500
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I applaud Colin Hume for his comments on ECD in America. From my own even
more limited experience of ECD in America I can draw parallels will Colin's
comments, e.g  At Pinewoods dancing 'Nottingham Swing' in playford style!!!
  
There is a tendency on this list to dismiss the development of ECD in
England as irrelevant. Perhaps the list should be renamed American ECD, it
would then more truly reflect the content.
John Turner



Message text written by Colin Hume>
Obviously I need to expand on my remark about ECD (especially in the
States) being on the decline.  I hope that people will not take this as an
attack by an outsider and flame me some more.  I lived in the States for a
year, and my main reason for doing this was to experience the contra and
English dance scene as a regular.  I found plenty to enjoy, but also things
which disturbed me in the way they were each developing.

With contra dancing (to be slightly off-list for a moment) it bothered me
(more than I had expected) that people just wanted to swing everybody in
sight and ignore the music.  I was also staggered at the number of women
who talked about injuries they had received while contra dancing.  And I
feel that exactly the same thing has happened as happened to English
Country Dance - the same few figures endlessly repeated.  It seems to me
that every contra dance has to have a partner swing, a neighbor swing,
everybody moving all the time, duple minor, improper.  And I find an
evening by George Marshall really boring - the dances just merge into each
other and sometimes he doesn't even bother to give them titles - they're
just generic contras.  Yet he's far more popular than Tony Parkes, who
provides the variety I crave (and squares too).

Yes, there is a lot more use of steps in England than in the States.  Not
indeed the contretemps assemblees and other steps noted by Feuillet, but
the skip-change step, the single-skip step and the slip-step.  In my
experience (based on dancing at Pinewoods, Buffalo Gap, Mendocino, Boston,
New York, Philadelphia, Princeton, San Francisco, Ann Arbor and many other
places that I can't remember, but not pretending to be someone who has
danced the length and breadth of the States) almost everything is walked
these days.  I heard someone say to a group of beginners "All English is
slow and gentle".  True, there is a tendency for dances to be walked more
in England than they were twenty years ago, but it's even more pronounced
in the States.

I would say the dances danced in the States are simpler than those danced
in England - of course this is a generalisation.  When Gary Roodman writes
a dance with the three Playford introductions he always uses the same
chorus for all three figures.  I came in for a lot of criticism at
Pinewoods last year (English-American Week and English Week) for making my
evening programs too complicated, and I was doing just what I would have
done at a Festival in England.  "People want simple, well-known dances", I
was told by Brad Foster during E&A Week, and the evaluation forms from
English Week said the same thing.  We seemed to be dancing the same small
repertoire in the evenings at both weeks, sometimes preceded by the same
dance in a class that day, and when it came to campers night many of them
appeared again.  Is this "in decline"?  It depends on your perspective, and
of course mine will be different.  Renata and I feel that if you're tired
after a day's dancing and the caller does dances without much challenge,
you tend to feel even more tired and not want to dance, whereas if there's
something to make you think, you perk up and enjoy yourself more.  I'm not
suggesting that an evening dance should be a workshop, but I feel it goes
to the other extreme at Pinewoods.  And I know that I'm in a minority there
- the general opinion was that when people are tired they don't want to
struggle with new material; they want to relax with dances they know well
and can dance well.

The other simplification (which parallels what happened in England between
1651 and 1700) is the dropping of set dances in favor of longways for as
many as will.  In England we don't do nearly as many longways dances in an
evening.  In the States it's considered wrong to do two set dances in a
row.  One person wrote on the evaluation form for my "Unusual English"
class: "Too many set dances".  I don't know why he/she didn't go the whole
way and say "Too many unusual dances"!  But again, is this a "decline"? 
Different people will have different opinions, just as they did between
1651 and 1700.  I get bored by doing lots of longways dances lots of times,
but Gene Murrow made the point in his session that because people in the
States change partner for every dance they want to be able to enjoy dancing
with that person rather than struggling to get through the figure.

I wasn't fair in attributing the speeding up of the music to ECD in the
States.  What I should have said is that in the States (again I can only
generalise from what I have experienced) there seems to be a "standard"
English speed, or perhaps a small range.  If I call slow dances I'm told by
good dancers in the Boston area that "nobody can dance that slow".  But in
England I don't hear that.  Of course it's harder to dance slowly than to
dance fast; it needs more control, and any mistakes are much more visible. 
And again if I teach energetic dances I'm told that these aren't what is
wanted.  When I call a rant or hornpipe, or even a lively dance with a skip
or skip-change, I'm told "If we wanted that sort of thing we'd go to a
contra dance".  But that just isn't true; when did you ever do any of those
things at a contra dance?  What they mean is that they see English Dance as
flowing along to a beautiful tune in triple-time.  Bob Archer came under
attack for saying that at Pinewoods in 1999, but it seems to me there's a
lot of truth in it.  What you have done in the States is take a very narrow
selection of dance styles and say "That's what we mean by English".  Of
course the beautiful triple-time dances are part of English, but there's so
much more to it than that.  I don't want to do rants all evening, but
neither do I want to drift around all evening.  There's surely room for
many different styles and speeds.

Of course, it tends to be self-perpetuating; the people who like this style
stay and introduce other like-minded dancers; the ones who don't like it go
off and do Scottish or contra.  But it seems to me that you in the States
are facing the same problem that we have in England - an aging population
of English dancers and the danger that the whole thing will die out in ten
or twenty years.  Are you getting new young dancers to your dances?  If
they walked past the hall and saw you walking round in circles, would they
be encouraged to join in?

I'm sorry if all of this sounds like at attack.  I'm just as critical of
dancers in England, but maybe you in the States will resent it because I'm
an outsider.  I hope I haven't offended any of you by this - and I'm not
going to blame Graham Christian for asking me to explain what I meant!
<
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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:42:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: Playford Conference
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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John wrote:

> I applaud Colin Hume for his comments on ECD in America. From my own even
> more limited experience of ECD in America I can draw parallels will Colin's
> comments, e.g  At Pinewoods dancing 'Nottingham Swing' in playford style!!!

I'm trying to picture that, and having trouble.  But I haven't seen it danced
ceilidh-style, really, so maybe my idea of Notty Swing as a boisterous dance
is actually strangely reserved.  Can you expand?
  
> There is a tendency on this list to dismiss the development of ECD in
> England as irrelevant. Perhaps the list should be renamed American ECD, it
> would then more truly reflect the content.

Well, no.  I think the list reflects the experience of the people who do the
majority of the talking, which is very roughly proportional to the distribution
of the subscribers.  

It is certainly not my idea - as the founder and maintainer of the list - 
that the development of ECD in England is irrelevant.  (Actually, I consider
ECD, its cousins, ancestors, and descendants (including contra dancing, at
least when considered in relation to ECD), historical or contemporary, 
relevant and on-topic.  It's really all one tangled mass of thread, and unless
the focus is going to be really narrow - "ECD as interpreted by Sharp and his
followers" - there's no point in setting arbitrary boundaries.

Anyway, if more UK people would talk about this stuff here, there'd be more 
talk about this stuff here.

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:25:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Mr Hume's Useful Report
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In a message dated 3/28/01 7:01:15 AM, franch-AT-
juno.com writes:
>
>Nilos's subject line, as above, would make a great name for a dance. 
>I've identified the title.  Will somebody write the dance?
>
>Mike Franch
>

It'd have to include a new figure: Toe to Toe. 

Nilos
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 08:49:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The ECD Climate
To: ECD-AT-
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I sense is that some people can't seem to feel as if they have
really enjoyed a dance unless it is complicated and makes them
twist their brain around it. Personally, I enjoy a diverse
evening of easy and complicated dances. There have been nights
when every dance seemed to be a brain twister, and I have gone
home feeling drained rather than satisfied. On the other hand,
we have a contra caller here in Portland whose repertoire seems
very limited and all his dances seem to run together after a
while. He lets them go on far too long, too, leaving one
wondering if it will ever end, rather than wanting more. That
isn't satisfying either.

The more complicated one dance is in an evening, the more there
is a need for balancing it with something less cerebral. To me
ECD is about enjoyment, not about seeing if you can make each
dance more complicated than the last. Some newer dances I have
experienced seem to have been choreographed simply with the idea
of making them as complicated as possible and I don't find that
kind of dances satisfying at all. Personally, I find much more
pleasure from an evening of easy dances because I can *dance*
them, rather than constantly twisting my brain around trying to
remember the intricacies of them.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:45:18 PST
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:38:11 +0100
From: Robert & Hazel Moir <rhmoir-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The ECD Climate
To: ECD-AT-
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Should I be as amazed as I am ?

Surely anyone who is contributing to the production of a dance programme
needs to be aware about the participants and what is to be presented to them
to enable everyone concerned - dancers, musicians and caller(teacher) to
complete the event with a sense of achievement and enjoyment. The jolly old
British compromise perhaps - a little of everything goes a long way !

I am reminded of Tom Cook's admonition "You have not come here to enjoy
yourselves. You are here to enable  others to dance to the best of their
abilities, and by so doing you will find that miraculously you have also
done the same - and enjoyed yourselves into the bargain !"

Read and inwardly digest.

Robert Moir


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Peterson" <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2001 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: The ECD Climate


> I sense is that some people can't seem to feel as if they have
> really enjoyed a dance unless it is complicated and makes them
> twist their brain around it. Personally, I enjoy a diverse
> evening of easy and complicated dances. There have been nights
> when every dance seemed to be a brain twister, and I have gone
> home feeling drained rather than satisfied. On the other hand,
> we have a contra caller here in Portland whose repertoire seems
> very limited and all his dances seem to run together after a
> while. He lets them go on far too long, too, leaving one
> wondering if it will ever end, rather than wanting more. That
> isn't satisfying either.
>
> The more complicated one dance is in an evening, the more there
> is a need for balancing it with something less cerebral. To me
> ECD is about enjoyment, not about seeing if you can make each
> dance more complicated than the last. Some newer dances I have
> experienced seem to have been choreographed simply with the idea
> of making them as complicated as possible and I don't find that
> kind of dances satisfying at all. Personally, I find much more
> pleasure from an evening of easy dances because I can *dance*
> them, rather than constantly twisting my brain around trying to
> remember the intricacies of them.
>
> Andy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text



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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 19:11:18 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Conference
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John wrote:
e.g  At Pinewoods dancing 'Nottingham Swing' in playford style!!!


Alan wrote:
I'm trying to picture that, and having trouble.  But I haven't seen it
danced ceilidh-style, really, so maybe my idea of Notty Swing as a
boisterous dance is actually strangely reserved.  Can you expand?

        It was Jack Hamilton who used to say, and probably still does say
"...if you are fed up with doing Nottingham Swing, then change your
partner".
I guess this was a reference to the fact that many dancers at the time
sought increasingly difficult material but forgot about their partner
completely in the process, about which someone more recently has said,
"defeats the point of the dance!"

I can remember youngsters in the '60s getting their knees up high and
working up steam to show the oldies how energetic they could be. Perhaps, it
was to the young ladies this show of spirited activity was directed.
Regards Alan Corkett

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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:30:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Conference
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010329183003.16361.qmail-AT-
web1605.mail.yahoo.com>
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So, let's see, we've got someone who by his own admission knows
virtually nothing about English dancing as its done in the U.S., but
considers himself competent to criticize the state of ECD in the
entire country, complaining because US dancers dismiss what is going
on in England?

Uh huh.

--- JHMTurner <JHMTurner-AT-
compuserve.com> wrote:
> 
> I applaud Colin Hume for his comments on ECD in America. From my
> own even
> more limited experience of ECD in America I can draw parallels will
> Colin's
> comments, e.g  At Pinewoods dancing 'Nottingham Swing' in playford
> style!!!
>   
> There is a tendency on this list to dismiss the development of ECD
> in
> England as irrelevant. Perhaps the list should be renamed American
> ECD, it
> would then more truly reflect the content.
> John Turner


=====
Don't blame me, I voted with the majority.

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Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:43:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:43:41 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Playford Conference
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Despite Colin's rather disparaging remarks anent Aidan's and my music 
workshop, I think he wrote a very useful account of the Conference, with much 
of which I agreed.
    He did not attend Julia Sutton's workshop on Lorin, but I did and found 
it both interesting and frustrating. Interesting because of her supplying us 
all with photocopies of the original and with her own re-drawing of the same 
pages and then proceeding to go over part of them and explain them: 
frustrating because her delivery was, for my taste, exceptionally slow, much 
time was lost at the start as we all queued up to collect our photocopies 
from a small, narrow windowsill where all the requisite sheets had been laid 
out (they should have been spaced out round the room in separate piles, or 
better still laid out in sets on the seats before we entered), and about ten 
minutes before the end she got us up to dance - all of us who wished to (and 
most did - far too many for the space available!) but only succeeded in 
getting us to do a few steps round an ever decreasing circle of experienced 
dancers, who themselves were not clear as to what she was asking them to do.
    So, Interesting for a glimpse at a fairly difficult manuscript, but 
unsatisfying as we came away with nothing completed. I felt it would have 
been better, when we had reached within ten minutes of the end, to leave us 
all sitting and finish her explanation of the manuscript, or possibly to get 
up a select group to shew what she wanted us to see - but they would have had 
to be primed in advance. I felt that it was all rather 'off the cuff', 
relying on her undoubtedly great scholarship to carry it off without detailed 
specific preparation.
                                                            Nicolas B., 
Lanark, Scotland - where the sun will both rise and set on Gene Murrow's 
workshops in Edinburgh this weekend.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:46:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 01:47:31 -0500
From: Scott Higgs <scotthiggs-AT-
iname.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.3.1.20010330014558.00b258a0-AT-
pop.erols.com>
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Boredom has been a recurring theme in recent posts. Some people seek a 
steady stream of "new" dances to avoid being bored. I'd like to offer two 
different perspectives on boredom.

One reflects the experience of "new" dancers who try ECD and drift away. 
The second reflects the experience of an "old" dancer who hopes to dance 
ECD forever.

1) I have the good fortune to travel widely, visiting dances in many parts 
of the country. Literally *everywhere* I go, for a festival or a weekend, 
people tell me the same story: "I really enjoy English dancing, but I 
almost never go to dances run by the local group. They spend more time 
teaching than dancing, it's totally slow-moving and boring."

2) A recent post talks about feeling tired at the end of a day, and needing 
"something that makes you think" to stay interested in the dancing. 
Personally, I need music, movement, and engagement with fellow dancers. My 
fatigue and frustration reach a boiling point after 7-8 minutes of standing 
around, with no music, bored to tears, while a teacher struggles to drag 
people through an "intellectually stimulating" dance. All-too-often, the 
end result is people "dancing" in an anxious dither -- too wrapped-up in 
*where* they are going to pay attention to *how* they get there, or to the 
opportunities to match movement to the music or to relate to the other 
dancers ...

Just 2 cents from a long-term dancer -- who is easily bored.

Scott

......................................................
......... ScottHiggs-AT-
iname.com .........
   http://users.erols.com/scotthiggs/
.......................................................

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:19:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:16:25 -0500
From: Anne Lowenthal <annel-AT-
ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001f01c0b924$3244ba20$8a8cfea9-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <4.3.1.20010330014558.00b258a0-AT-
pop.erols.com>

For still another perspective on the themes of boredom and decline, here's
what's happening at the weekly English dances at Country Dance New York.  A
little over a year ago, a group of dance leaders and interested dancers met
to talk about how to bring greater shape and variety to the Tuesday
programs, vary the level of difficulty so as to interest both experts and
newbies, build repertoire, and in general raise the level of dancing. All
this combined with great socializing.

This year, we've been experimenting with a flexible structure that brings
peaks and valleys to each dance, with each teacher shaping a program
according to taste.  Typically there's some intensive teaching early in the
evening, then general dancing with just walk-throughs and prompting.  Either
right before or after the break we take a look at a more complex dance,
maybe do something FTWK, and end with old favorites and requests with
talk-throughs only.  Take a look at the English Cumulative Dance List on our
website, at www.cdny.org/ to see how this has worked (except during our
present Playford Ball prep sessions).  It's not a totally originally
scheme--we gladly acknowledge some inspiration from Boston.  Planning a
dance with this kind of structure demands a new level of thought--and
time--in shaping programs; the teachers have responded with energy and
imagination.

We continue to tinker. But there's now a new spirit of engagement and
enthusiasm on the dance floor, the quality of dancing has risen, and we've
attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are becoming regulars. There
lies the future of ECD!

Anne Lowenthal
New York

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 06:31:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:32:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Subject: Mary Kay Friday, Memorial Service Update
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <45207.148.184.176.32.985966338.squirrel-AT-
www.weitzman.com>
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Dear friends on the ECD mailing list,

I wish to update you on plans for a memorial service in memory of Mary Kay 
Friday, who passed on March 17 after suffering a stroke (she was among 
friends at our Wednesday English country dance when stricken).

As many of you know, Mary Kay was active in a wide variety of 
activities related to family, music and dance.  Many folk will be 
participating in the memorial service, sharing tributes and memories, 
singing Sacred Harp songs and playing music that was dear to her.

An update on the memorial and other info is available at:

   www.just.net/~roger/mkf

   Included:
      Particulars on the memorial service and reception, other details
      Directions via public transportation
      Links to some tributes to Mary Kay
      A picture: www.just.net/~roger/mkf/mkf.jpg

Hospitality is available for out-of-towners in need of a place to stay.

Dancers arriving on Wednesday:, please join us at our weekly English country 
dance. Info:
   www.just.net/~roger/events.html
   England's Charles Bolton will be calling
      (see http://web.ukonline.co.uk/playford/)

Sincerely yours,

/Roger W.  Broseus

P.S. If urls become 'html-ized,' please excuse: the interface did it.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:30:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:36:24 -0500
From: Graham.Christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Boredom!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85256A1F.005605AA.00-AT-
Notes_SMTP.risk.sungard.com>
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Quoth Mr Higgs:
1) I have the good fortune to travel widely, visiting dances in many parts
of the country. Literally *everywhere* I go, for a festival or a weekend,
people tell me the same story: "I really enjoy English dancing, but I
almost never go to dances run by the local group. They spend more time
teaching than dancing, it's totally slow-moving and boring."
I do not have the benefit of Mr Higgs' very broad range of dancing and teaching
experience, but I have heard this remark too. And yes, I've stood through
slowly-taught dances, and even slow evenings. But, to quote Anne Bradstreet, "I
am obnoxious to each carping tongue." My suspicion is that the teaching is slow
in large measure because there is a high proportion of new or uncertain dancers,
and the caller is struggling with dancers who are still figuring out what a cast
is, much less double figures-of-eight. It is a completely circular phenomenon:
good and excellent dancers stay away, the median level of dancing declines, the
good dancers stay away more--and so forth.

I think that dancers should feel *some* degree of responsibility to their local
dances. When I call, I say, as often as I can, "Your best teachers are around
you, on the floor. The experienced dancers will help you, and their carriage and
movement will teach you by example." [Or word to that effect.] Local dances
certainly don't improve if good dancers don't improve them. Besides which, if
all dancers waited to dance until an occasion arose which gave promise of
dancing up to their standard, in time there would be no such dances at all.
Local dances, and their newer dancers, are the field from which festival
attendance and weekend-retreat attendance and Pinewoods attendance are drawn.
And how keen are the dance skills of dancers who turn out for one or two
evenings or festivals a year?

In response to Mr Higgs' second point, I think he reminds us that good teachers
both give deft, compact instruction and direction--and that they should pick
their battles. Not, i.e., to teach three four-part multi-chorus set dances in a
row; not to teach four challenging new dances in a row; not to over-teach an
accessible dance to an experienced crowd; not to force-march a mixed-level crowd
through your most difficult dance.

But I feel that there *is* plenty of good teaching out there--Mr Higgs himself
is a stellar teacher--and, in many places, very little excuse to stay away.

I'll stop; I'm getting querulous now.

Graham Christian
Technical Writer, Product Management
SunGard Trading and Risk Systems
88 Broad Street, Boston, MA  02110
Telephone number: (617)542-2800, extension 248
Email address:  graham.christian-AT-
risk.sungard.com
Group web address:  http://www.risk.sungard.com
"Speak, that I may see thee." --Ben Jonson




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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:32:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:32:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20010330153220.28492.qmail-AT-
web3302.mail.yahoo.com>
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I like what Scott has to say. I think the first case is partly a
reflection of our hurry-up society in general, that people don't
have patience to spend time learning. Try *really*teaching* at a
Contra dance. On the other hand, the dances need to be easy
enough for newcomers to learn so that they aren't completely
blown off by the complexities. As far as the second case goes,
at the end of a long day I would rather enjoy *dancing* four or
five easier dances well, than spend that same hour grinding
through a single brain-twister that nobody is getting well
enough to really enjoy it.

Andy Peterson

--- Scott Higgs <scotthiggs-AT-
iname.com> wrote:
> Boredom has been a recurring theme in recent posts. Some
> people seek a steady stream of "new" dances to avoid being
> bored. I'd like to offer two different perspectives on
boredom.
> 
> One reflects the experience of "new" dancers who try ECD and
> drift away. The second reflects the experience of an "old"
> dancer who hopes to dance ECD forever.
> 
> 1) I have the good fortune to travel widely, visiting dances
> in many parts of the country. Literally *everywhere* I go, for
> a festival or a weekend, people tell me the same story: "I
> really enjoy English dancing, but I almost never go to dances
> run by the local group. They spend more time teaching than
> dancing, it's totally slow-moving and boring."
> 
> 2) A recent post talks about feeling tired at the end of a
> day, and needing "something that makes you think" to stay
> interested in the dancing. Personally, I need music, movement,
> and engagement with fellow dancers. My fatigue and frustration
> reach a boiling point after 7-8 minutes of standing around,
> with no music, bored to tears, while a teacher struggles to
> drag people through an "intellectually stimulating" dance.
> All-too-often, the end result is people "dancing" in an
anxious
> dither -- too wrapped-up in *where* they are going to pay
> attention to *how* they get there, or to the opportunities to
> match movement to the music or to relate to the other
> dancers...
> 
> Just 2 cents from a long-term dancer -- who is easily bored.


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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:33:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:33:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0103300729310.7120-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Anne Lowenthal wrote:

> We continue to tinker. But there's now a new spirit of engagement and
> enthusiasm on the dance floor, the quality of dancing has risen, and we've
> attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are becoming regulars. There
> lies the future of ECD!

Hey, that's nothing: the Sebastopol, California dance has a number of
dancers in their 0's.  (Well, one, but that's a number.)  One of our
regular attendees is 7 years old, and does a very good job.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:49:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:49:13 +0000
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Age "0s"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F68BHORpbVA8Imx4wu50001c370-AT-
hotmail.com>
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New York also has one or two dancers in their 0s. . . baby Chloe even has a 
dance of her very own already. . . . So I guess the future of ECD is safe 
for the moment!
--Orly Krasner (who seconds the posts on Boredom by Scott and Graham and 
Anne, et al.)
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:28:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:28:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10103301121120.8782-100000-AT-
galaga.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Anne Lowenthal wrote:
> 

 [snip]  ... and we've
> > attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are becoming regulars. There
> > lies the future of ECD!
> 
> Hey, that's nothing: the Sebastopol, California dance has a number of
> dancers in their 0's.  (Well, one, but that's a number.)  One of our
> regular attendees is 7 years old, and does a very good job.

It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)
and one wonders if the 7-year-old would come on his/her own if the
parent's didn't (and allowed that).  One also wonders if the dance
community would accept 7-year-olds coming without their parents.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor (where the same struggle is being enacted...)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:01:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:01:48 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000401c0b93b$1bf0f880$03981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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Mulling over why some don't like set dances, I wonder if the dislike doesn't
have something to do with getting a "sufficient return" (that is, unmediated
dancing) on the "investment" (time spent in forming sets, and time and
effort involved in the learning), rather than on "difficulty" per se.

A longways forms quickly and doesn't leave out any couples. Then, whether
duple or triple minor, a longways is walked once or twice, called a few
times, and then "just danced" for many more times.  Couples dance with new
couples in each repetition as they move up or down the line, and then in new
positions as they change roles to move back down or up the line.  I'd call
this a pretty good return on the investment.

A set dance takes longer to form, and one or more couples may be left out.
There may be several walk-throughs: one for each chorus of a Playford
formula dance; or one for each new 1st couple in a progressive-type set.
Then it is danced for one complete cycle, often with calling throughout.
Not a good dancing return for all that formation time and learning
investment.  How about a second cycle, with no calling for the second
sequence?  Better, but we see the same people in the same positions, so a
certain excitement is lacking.  How about a third cycle, still seeing the
same people in the same positions?  Boredom often sets in at this point.

SCD, as probably many of you know, divides its activities into two
categories: dance classes, where dances are learned and footwork, phrasing,
and style are practiced; and dance parties, where dances are done from only
a talk-through.  Programs are a mix of historical and modern, easy and hard,
familiar and unfamiliar dances, all of which were (or should have been)
learned in advance.  Dancers expect three hours of unmediated dancing to
exciting music; the occasional walk-through is acceptable, but more than two
produces a noticeable drop in the excitement level.

Compare that to Pinewoods, where the *dance classes* occur during the day,
and the *dance party* occurs in the evening.  My impression of events at
various English Weeks is that daytime sessions on Modern English, or
Mind-Boggling Dances, and others in that vein, are always well attended.
Folks seem to like these; they are offered every year.  I believe that
dances in all sorts of formations are presented.  That doesn't sound like
folks not wanting to try new things, unfamiliar dances, hard dances.  Come
the evening, though, the time for teaching, learning, listening, watching,
practicing is over.  It's less a question of being physically tired, and
more the fact that "class" is over and people want to "just dance" what they
know, to excellent music, with their favorite people (whom they may not have
seen since last year).  Unlike an SCD dance party where folks have had weeks
to learn the new dances, at a Pinewoods evening dance we can't do the harder
new dances learned in the daytime workshops for the obvious reasons that (1)
they haven't been learned all that well yet; and (2) not everyone has taken
those workshops.   I agree with Scott Higgs in that badly dancing an
imperfectly learned dance is not satisfying.  "Getting through" a dance is
not dancing.  So we ask for the dances that most everyone knows, or dances
that can be learned quickly.  It is worth pointing out that "familiar"
doesn't mean "easy," nor does it exclude set dances.

Scott mentions the boredom of the local English dance. I agree, but I think
that is to be expected where *class* and *party* are the same event and the
teaching of new dances or style points occurs throughout the evening,
thereby interrupting the flow of unmediated dancing.  Dancers want to dance;
but dances need to be taught.  If we satisfy only the desire for unmediated
dancing, the result is what Colin and others have noticed: the repertoire
remains limited and dancers resist the unfamiliar.  If we try to present new
dances or insist on teaching style and phrasing, folks get frustrated at
never having the opportunity to "just dance."  A successful evening, I
suppose, balances the two interests.  I think if I were running an ECD
weekly dance now, I would have a "class" for the first hour and a "party"
for the second.  Maybe the fourth week would be only a dance party.  Maybe a
special dance party once a month or so.  Probably others of you already do
something like this.

One last item to be mentioned is the simple fact that folks have different
tastes in dance and music.  Some folks operate on the principle that "if
you're not moving you're not having any fun"; many others enjoy the
intellectual challenge of a complicated modern dance; while still others
find complicated modern dances to be mathematical exercises with little
social or artistic merit.  Some folks find modern dance tunes appealing,
akin to the pleasure found in other forms of contemporary music; others hear
these tunes as jejune or sentimental, preferring the older tunes, hearing in
them the same strong and passionate elements found in early and Baroque
music.  Thoughtful, articulate reasons for not being interested in one or
the other are worth considering.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:24:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:22:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Age "0s"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0103301222050.4727-100000-AT-
panix3.panix.com>
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Orly Krasner wrote:

> New York also has one or two dancers in their 0s. . . baby Chloe even has a
> dance of her very own already. . . . So I guess the future of ECD is safe
> for the moment!
> --Orly Krasner (who seconds the posts on Boredom by Scott and Graham and
> Anne, et al.)
> _________________________________________________________________

  Not quite as cutesey-poo as it sounds... at the age of 1 or so, William
Francis Chandler was crawling in time at dances.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.ecben.net/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 10:00:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:59:56 -0500 (EST)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <8.125eb9f3.27f6239c-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 3/30/01 11:29:18 AM, eba-AT-
umich.edu writes:

<< It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)
and one wonders if the 7-year-old would come on his/her own if the
parent's didn't (and allowed that).  One also wonders if the dance
community would accept 7-year-olds coming without their parents. >>

My (now) 13 year old first became interested in ECD and contra dancing when 
he was 9, at Buffalo Gap Family Week. He had been coming to Pinewoods and Buf 
Gap since infancy, but prior to that would try to play baseball or soccer 
rather than dance. He's now so much into it that he plays piano regularly for 
contra dancing, writes contra tunes, has written a contra dance, and is on a 
rapper team. His older siblings have also been on (the same) rapper team, and 
one plays flute for ECD and contra and is very much into dancing both. The 
other is mainly into contra dancing. It's very possible for kids to decide on 
their own that they want to dance and play music. They just need to be 
exposed to it.

Also - my 2 cents about Scott Higgs' comments: I agree 100%: more dancing; 
save the extensive teaching for workshops. I come to dances to dance, not to 
stand around and learn complicated walking patterns. In general, though with 
notable exceptions, the more complicated a dance is, the less likely it is to 
be good.

Carl Friedman
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:50:37 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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From: Emily L. Ferguson

...1985 and going to a contra dance there in which the band sat in a circle
on the stage and never looked at the dancers at all.  I still can't imagine
what they thought they were doing up there, but it wasn't playing for
dancing.

    Emily, I must agree that in England, whilst musicians in bands may sit
so that they can see each other, the usual reason they don't look at the
dancers may be because they are reading musical notation, unless playing by
ear or from memory, in which case they enjoy watching the dancers all the
time, if possible.
Alan Corkett (accordionist - not sure if that counts as being a musician or
not in US, certainly not as a dancer as one caller would say!)

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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:26:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Eric Arnold wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Anne Lowenthal wrote:
> > 
> 
>  [snip]  ... and we've
> > > attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are becoming regulars. There
> > > lies the future of ECD!
> > 
> > Hey, that's nothing: the Sebastopol, California dance has a number of
> > dancers in their 0's.  (Well, one, but that's a number.)  One of our
> > regular attendees is 7 years old, and does a very good job.
> 
> It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
> their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
> certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
> enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)

Interesting.  Why would you assume that?  I suspect that if you saw a
7-year-old playing Little League baseball or peewee soccer you'd assume
that he or she wanted to be there, right?  So what is it about this
activity which all of us enjoy so much that you assume is "certainly" less
appealing to children than organized competitive sports?

> and one wonders if the 7-year-old would come on his/her own if the
> parent's didn't (and allowed that).  One also wonders if the dance
> community would accept 7-year-olds coming without their parents.

Probably not, but only because a kid that young needs to be looked after by
a responsible adult, and nobody would be likely to want to take on the
responsibility.  Also, there's no question that his parents have to be
involved with keeping him from running around screaming like a maniac all
the time, and they do fine at it, but I doubt if anyone else would want the
job.  But if we hypothesize that those problems are solved somehow, sure, I
doubt if anyone would have a problem with him showing up without his
parents.  The kid in question is actually a pretty good dancer; his
footwork could use some improvement, but he's quite consistently in the
right place at the right time, which is a damn sight more than I can say
for some adults.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:27:54 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:22:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Eric wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:

> > On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Anne Lowenthal wrote:
> >

>  [snip]  ... and we've
> > > attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are becoming regulars. There
> > > lies the future of ECD!
> >
> > Hey, that's nothing: the Sebastopol, California dance has a number of
> > dancers in their 0's.  (Well, one, but that's a number.)  One of our
> > regular attendees is 7 years old, and does a very good job.

> It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
> their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
> certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
> enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)
> and one wonders if the 7-year-old would come on his/her own if the
> parent's didn't (and allowed that).  One also wonders if the dance
> community would accept 7-year-olds coming without their parents.

I know the 7-year-old in question.  Obviously he wouldn't have started  English
dancing without his parents having exposed him to it, but in fact he really
loves it and is good at it.  He's probably in the 70th percentile of English
dancers of any age.  I think he would come on his own if his  parents weren't
interested and it were possible.  (I wouldn't say the same for his 9-year-old
brother, who  seems to think English is okay if there's nothing else to do, and
has been known to go play with other kids at dances.)

These particulars don't invalidate Eric's actual point.

-- Alan

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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:54:40 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:54:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Eric Arnold wrote:

[previous exchanges snipped out]

> > It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
> > their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
> > certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
> > enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)
> 
> Interesting.  Why would you assume that? 

Because very few 0-year olds have the power of expression to tell their
parents that it's a _dance_ they want to go to, not bouncy-on-the-knee or 
bouncy-in-the-buncy-swing-seat or rock in parent's arms or whatever.  
 I suspect that if you saw a
> 7-year-old playing Little League baseball or peewee soccer you'd assume
> that he or she wanted to be there, right?

No, not right at all.  Why do _you_ assume that?

  So what is it about this
> activity which all of us enjoy so much that you assume is "certainly" less
> appealing to children than organized competitive sports?

If you read what I wrote, you may notice that I used "certainly" only in
the sentence referring to the 0-year-olds.  

I'm as happy to see the 0-year-olds and 7-year-olds and 13-year-olds and
twentysomethings as anyone, and I believe that most children develop
enough ability to express to their parents and others what they do and
don't like to do quite clearly by somewhere around two.  I simply believe
that 1) a choice by a young person to engage in a particular activity is
more significant than a choice by the young person's parents for the young
person to engage in that activity, and 2) that the more developed and
mature the young person is, the more significant these choices are,
especially as far as activity in something like ECD is concerned.

A child of 7 years can be very interested in such an activity, and be
_very good_ at it, even by many adult standards, and be completely
disinterested by age 13.  It is the natural function of children to try
many different things, and to go on to other things.  I would hazard a
guess that not too many of us are really strongly intererested in the same
sorts of things in the same way as we were when we were seven.  I don't
mind their participation at all; I welcome it as a dance leader.  But
their lives are theirs to map out, not ours or even their parents'.  

I hope that children see the dancing their parents do as a good thing
because it helps to make their parents happy, and that makes them happy,
too.  I would like them to get an image of dancing as something that can
be for anyone who wants to do it -- neither something that is just for
adults or just for kids.  Too often kids go along willingly enough with
what their parents or teachers want them to do, but if it isn't something
that they really want to do themselves then they will outgrow it, and then
it may even be harder to get back into it later in life when it may really
start to appeal, because of associations developed earlier.  So I have no
more support for little-league baseball or pewee soccer or whatever than I
have for dancing -- less, in fact, because I don't demonstrate enjoyment
of these things through my own activity.    

People who expose their children to a wide variety of things should not be
disappointed in their children if they don't follow their parents'
footsteps exactly.  Instead, at least to the extent that they regard their
children's own choices as worthwhile, they should rejoice in that they
were able to bring them up with a broad-enough perspective to see that
there are other things worth doing, too.

Most people don't find ECD sufficiently worthwhile to do it, after all.
_Certainly_ well under 0.1% of the population does it often enough to
consider it a regular activity.  That's not very much.  There are _many_
legitimate, worthwhile activities that can compete for a child's or an
adolescent's or young adult's attention; why should you interfere with
their free choice?  Just do your best at enjoying what you do.  Let them
choose if that's what they want to do.

So if they do choose to do ECD, the more mature a choice, the more
significant it is.

Eric

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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:01:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Name that Kid (was Re: Boredom - another look)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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So what's this kid's name?  Billy Elliot?

--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
wrote:
  One
> of our
> > > regular attendees is 7 years old, and does a very good job.


> I know the 7-year-old in question.  Obviously he wouldn't have
> started  English
> dancing without his parents having exposed him to it, but in fact
> he really
> loves it and is good at it.  He's probably in the 70th percentile
> of English
> dancers of any age.  I think he would come on his own if his 
> parents weren't
> interested and it were possible. 

=====
Don't blame me, I voted with the majority.

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:47:29 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:37:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Eric Arnold wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Eric Arnold wrote:
> 
> [previous exchanges snipped out]
> 
> > > It isn't "nothing" -- in fact, it's more significant, because those in
> > > their 20's are making their own choice, whereas those in their 0's
> > > certainly aren't (the best that can be said is that they tolerate it
> > > enough not to put up so much fuss that their parents don't bring them)
> > 
> > Interesting.  Why would you assume that? 
> 
> Because very few 0-year olds have the power of expression to tell their
> parents that it's a _dance_ they want to go to, not bouncy-on-the-knee or 
> bouncy-in-the-buncy-swing-seat or rock in parent's arms or whatever.  
>  I suspect that if you saw a
> > 7-year-old playing Little League baseball or peewee soccer you'd assume
> > that he or she wanted to be there, right?
> 
> No, not right at all.  Why do _you_ assume that?

>   So what is it about this
> > activity which all of us enjoy so much that you assume is "certainly" less
> > appealing to children than organized competitive sports?
> 
> If you read what I wrote, you may notice that I used "certainly" only in
> the sentence referring to the 0-year-olds.  

What you wrote was "those in their 20's are making their own choice,
whereas those in their 0's certainly aren't."  I think the problem here is
that when you say "those in their 0's" you mean 0-year-olds, but I intended
it to refer to those between 0 and 9, in the same sense that "dancers in
their 20's" refers to dancers between 20 and 29.  I realize that "in their
0's" is an unusual phrase, and I'm sorry if I didn't make my meaning
clear.  I'm certainly not advocating ECD by pre-toddlers.  I don't think
that's a good idea at all.  The ability to reliably get through a dance
without needing a diaper change is pretty much a prerequisite for a dancer
of any age.

I think it's great when parents expose their kids to quirky and unusual
activities, and I even think it can occasionally be great if the kids don't
adore the activities.  I myself was forced to play the violin as a
youngster, and I didn't like it a darn bit, but playing the violin is now
one of the most significant features of my adult life, and I'm deeply
grateful to my parents for making me do it.  I'm not sure that ECD falls
into the category of things kids should be made to do even if they hate it,
but I'm positive it falls into the category of things kids might very well
like and might very well be good at.  This is no excuse for dragging
completely disinterested kids to dances so they can be disruptive and make
everybody's life miserable, but if they enjoy it and don't cause trouble,
why not?

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:03:19 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:03:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The younger set...
To: ECD-AT-
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Jon Berger wrote:

[previous discussion snipped]

> What you wrote was "those in their 20's are making their own choice,
> whereas those in their 0's certainly aren't."  I think the problem here is
> that when you say "those in their 0's" you mean 0-year-olds, but I intended
> it to refer to those between 0 and 9, in the same sense that "dancers in
> their 20's" refers to dancers between 20 and 29.  I realize that "in their
> 0's" is an unusual phrase, and I'm sorry if I didn't make my meaning
> clear.  I'm certainly not advocating ECD by pre-toddlers.  I don't think
> that's a good idea at all.  The ability to reliably get through a dance
> without needing a diaper change is pretty much a prerequisite for a dancer
> of any age.

You're right on that; Orly's posting related to someone less than 1 year
who regularly attends dances with her parents, and that led to my
presuming that you meant something similar.  Sorry for the
misunderstanding.  

Eric

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:24:55 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:24:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Terence Gaffney <gaff-AT-
neu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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  The boredom issue is really one of meeting the needs of different groups
of folks. In Boston two years ago we started programming parties such as
our Valentine's day dance this year and special events like guest callers
from inside and outside the region.  The party dances have less teaching
and consist of a mix of easier dances and dances that are well known to
enough of the regulars that we can carry the whole hall along. We try to
see that there is a real connection between the theme and the dances, so
the evening really does feel like a party.  Attendance last year was the
best in 9 years, and attendance this year is even better.

We also have a monthly event for experienced dancers.  The feel of the
evening depends a lot on the leader; some program brain teasers, other use
favorites from the repertoire.

Wednesday nights that are not party nights follow the following
format--first hours for beginners, so the dances are easy. The amount of
teaching is tailored to the needs of the beginners that evening.

the second hour is harder dances; usually including a "dance of the
month". (This month we are doing "The Mavis Sweetly Sings" by Fried
 Herman.)  After doing a hard dance for a month, it's usually ready to go
into the repertoire and we can just roll through it at our experienced
dance.

The third hour is requests--talk throughs, no walk throughs. This again
meets the needs of our regulars who just want to dance without a lot of
teaching. 

With all this we still don't please everybody!

best,
 terry

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:32:43 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:32:35 -0700
From: Emma Rushton <rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[155.99.169.34]>
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>A child of 7 years can be very interested in such an activity, and be
>_very good_ at it, even by many adult standards, and be completely
>disinterested by age 13.

>This is no excuse for dragging completely disinterested kids to dances

I know this is nit-picking, off-topic, possibly even flame-worthy, but I
feel compelled to point out that "disinterested" means unbiased, without a
stake in the outcome.  The word you want here is uninterested.  A perfectly
good word and  even shorter than disinterested.

If you get confused, just remember, it is a _good_ thing for a judge to be
disinterested, and a _bad_ thing for a judge to be uninterested.

Well, OK, I just looked it up in Merriam-Webster online, and I see that the
American usage may be different from the that in the UK.  If this is so,
it's a great shame, because disinterested is a very useful word in its
original meaning, and as a synonym of uninterested adds nothing whatever to
the language.

So now I'll let you all go back to discussing ECD.....

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:55:07 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:54:32 -0500 (EST)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts
To: ECD-AT-
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Dear ECD List:

It's certainly commendable that we're concerned with interesting the younger 
generation in the joys of ECD.  For the most part, kids come and are 
encouraged by their families.  And most communities (if not all) encourage 
this in various ways.  

However, while talking about kids is great (though personally I think the 
current discussion is deteriorating), shouldn't we be expending our 
considerable intellectual and creative energies -- not to say extensive 
cumulative ECD experience -- discussing how to interest the adults among us 
who have actually made a conscious (or not so conscious) decision to partake 
of these joys?  (And who may produce additional children to bring into the 
fold.)

There has been much food for thought brought to the list through the postings 
about recent Playford Conference and from Scott's today. These are issues 
that many of us are discussing and/or addressing in our own communities.  For 
instance -- why do many of us feel we have to wait for summer camps or a 
festival to have the sublime or stimulating experience we all crave (that's 
what got me thinking about our program here in NYC).  How do we address the 
needs of beginners, experienced dancers and those in between at weekly 
dances?  Should we just keep doing the same dances over and over -- walking 
them through ad infinitum (or ad nauseum as the case may be)?  Can't there be 
a mix of calling styles in an evening dance (lengthy with teaching, 
reasonably quick, with the music and keep going, FTWK)?  Does style matter?  
Who decides?  Is there an ECD style that we agree on?  (I'm not sure based on 
conversations I've had over the years.)  How can beginners be taught the 
basics and a general notion of style (assuming there is one) without boring 
or irritating the more experienced dancers?  On the other hand, couldn't we 
all use some reminders every now and again?  Should that be a part of doing 
ECD on a weekly/monthly basis?  (As opposed to a Ball or Party.)  What about 
repertoire?  Can't we mix new and old, long ways and sets in some reasonable 
and stimulating way?  Are there dances everyone should know?  And how much is 
up to each one of us?  In other words, can we make the ECD dance experience 
more interactive or responsive.  Something more than the usual teachers 
calling and dancers dancing.  But requests, dancer input, etc.  Personally, I 
love it when the caller gets down from the stage and joins the line (Scott is 
particularly good at this). Or calls from the floor and moves around among 
the dancers.

To reiterate, I'm sure all of these issues are being addressed at dances 
everywhere.  Yet these various issues also seem to come up over and over in 
casual conversations and more thought-out discussions -- at least in my 
experience.  There must be something there we feel the need to talk about.

Personally, I think many of Colin's points are well-taken.  They didn't seem 
entirely off the mark to me -- from what I've observed and experienced.  
While I know they were controversial, I was hoping they would the jumping off 
point for some serious discussion about the current state of ECD.  Instead, 
there were a few, "everything is just fine, thank you" and "what do you know 
anyway" posts and discussion ceased.  This is unfortunate, IMHO.

Of course, we all come to and love ECD for different reasons.  Some love the 
swoony dances; some like to be challenged; some only like the ones they know, 
some just want to do something sociable, etc., etc.  I think, if ECD is to 
remain vital, we do need to talk about the things that concern us.  And, of 
course, keep dancing as much as possible at the same time.

Suzanne // seeing no reason why we should make a great thing even better
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From: Lyrl Catherine Ahern <lyrl-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
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--- Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
> A set dance....is danced for one complete cycle, often
> with calling throughout. Not a good dancing return for
all
> that formation time and learning investment....How about
a
> third cycle, still seeing the same people in the same
> positions?  Boredom often sets in at this point.

What I fail to understand is why seeing the same people
several times through leads to boredom...perhaps they're
all poor dancers--but if it's a good set, dancing with the
sense of a set all working together can be a high.
 
I look for a lot of different things at a dance: seeing
friends and the feeling of community, the mix of dances
that require some thought to get through mixed with those
that are easy and can just be danced for enjoyment (good
variety). There's always something that makes the evening
enjoyable.

An early teacher of mine in Baltimore once said, "If you
can't dance Dorset Fourhand Reel and have a good time, you
aren't really a dancer"...meaning, of course, that the
point of the dance is not how complicated a dance you can
do, but that your spirit soars.

--Lyrl



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Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts -- Clarification
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OY!  And I read it over, too.  So before everyone posts on the mental lapse 
rather than any possible substance...

Suzanne // seeing no reason why we SHOULDN'T make a great thing even better

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From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
To: ECD-AT-
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Emma quoted and wrote:

> >A child of 7 years can be very interested in such an activity, and be
> >_very good_ at it, even by many adult standards, and be completely
> >disinterested by age 13.

> >This is no excuse for dragging completely disinterested kids to dances

> I know this is nit-picking, off-topic, possibly even flame-worthy, but I
> feel compelled to point out that "disinterested" means unbiased, without a
> stake in the outcome.  The word you want here is uninterested.  A perfectly
> good word and  even shorter than disinterested.

Actually, while Emma has a point, there's a case to be made that you don't 
want disinterested people dragged to dances either.  You want people who do
feel they have a stake in the outcome, to whom it matters that the dance
succeeds for everybody.  There is some degree of effort and attention required
from the dancers; if they're disinterested there's no reason for them to
provide it.

(I don't think English and American usage differ very much here.)

-- Alan


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From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: RE: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
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Lyrl asked: "What I fail to understand is why seeing the same people several
times through leads to boredom...perhaps they're all poor dancers--but if
it's a good set, dancing with the
sense of a set all working together can be a high."

There was a thread some time ago about the "right" number of times to dance
a 3-cpl set.  I was not a participant, but I recall folks setting a limit of
3 cycles (or 9 times through the dance), with some feeling that 2 cycles
were all they could stand.  I suppose that's why I mentioned it -- it seemed
important enough to be included among the criteria for assessing dance
satisfaction.

I guess it's as you say: if it's a good set, 9 times through can be very
enjoyable; but, if it's not, one might wish one were in a longways for as
many as will.  Given a varied program over the course of the evening,
however, one has the pleasure both of encountering different couples in the
longways and of repeating an enjoyable experience with the same couples in
the set dance.

Myself...oh, I don't know...I suppose I've come to prefer dancing triple and
duple minors in the 4-cpl longways set.  One dances with the same couples
through eight repetitions, but in each repetition one has a different
interaction with the other couples (including waiting out and watching the
dance from the top and the bottom of the set).  In nine repetitions of a
3-cpl set, one dances the same three interactions three times.  Yes, it can
produce a high; other times it can be merely repetitive.

Pat

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From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts
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--- SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> <<Snipped a whole lot>>  How can beginners be
> taught the basics and a general notion of style (assuming
there 
> is one) without boring  or irritating the more experienced 
> dancers?  On the other hand, couldn't we  all use some 
> reminders every now and again? <<and snipped a whole lot
more>>

Just to comment on this one issue, having been dancing a large
part of my life, and longer than many of the people on this
list, I can say with some authority (or at least experience)
that we never know it all. Even after about 35 years, I am very
aware that I don't know all there is to know about the various
forms of dancing that I enjoy and I continue to learn. One of
the basic problems that I see is that some people who are
"experienced" have decided that they *do* know it all and don't
have to listen to the teacher anymore. They are bored by being
taught *anything*, even if it is something that they have never
experienced before. They stop learning and their lack of
attention can be very disruptive to those around them, beginners
and experienced alike. Even though they have years of
"experience", they never quite understand what they are supposed
to do. (FWIW, my experience is that this is a more common
problem among Contra than among ECD. ECDers seem more atuned to
learning.) There are people that I have known for over thirty
years, and they are no better dancer today than they were when I
met them because they think they don't have any more to learn.
There are much newer dancers who are constantly improving
because they want to learn, and their dancing ability far
exceeds that of some people I have known much longer.

The question in my mind is, how do we change the attitude of
those people who think they are beyond learning anything new?
Those are the ones whom I find myself meeting in a dance and
having to compensate for, much more than the beginners. I have
met couples who are so engrossed in their own conversation that
the dance is incidental and they haven't a clue as to where they
are supposed to be going because they didn't listen to the
instructions. At least the beginners have an excuse for being
lost; it's all new to them.

Andy in Portland, OR

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From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
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--- Anne Lowenthal <annel-AT-
ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ...we've attracted a number of dancers in their 20's who are
> becoming regulars. There lies the future of ECD!
> 

As it did thirty-some years ago when I was one of those young
dancers. The group I started dancing with in Maryland was mostly
high school students. You had to be twelve to join the dancing
and I remember that the younger siblings of some of the kids
could hardly wait until they were old enough. The exception was
the Wright's own children, who danced at about age 8. There also
was a monthly invitational dance, held either at the Wright's in
Accokeek or at the Hardings in Herndon VA, that included a
number of families with children, and the children had the
option of playing or dancing. Then there was a period when it
was just adult dancing. I discovered CDSS and Pinewoods in 1969.

Andy in Portland OR

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Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:13:57 +0100
From: Alan Corkett <alan-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts
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I thought the decline/ageing thing was a UK problem!
I am often the youngster and 65 next birthday.
ABC
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From: SFORDNYC-AT-
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To: ECD-AT-
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SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: 30 March 2001 23:56
Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts


Dear ECD List:

It's certainly commendable that we're concerned with interesting the younger
generation in the joys of ECD.  For the most part, kids come and are
encouraged by their families.  And most communities (if not all) encourage
this in various ways.

However, while talking about kids is great (though personally I think the
current discussion is deteriorating), shouldn't we be expending our
considerable intellectual and creative energies -- not to say extensive
cumulative ECD experience -- discussing how to interest the adults among us
who have actually made a conscious (or not so conscious) decision to partake
of these joys?  (And who may produce additional children to bring into the
fold.)

There has been much food for thought brought to the list through the
postings
about recent Playford Conference and from Scott's today. These are issues
that many of us are discussing and/or addressing in our own communities.
For
instance -- why do many of us feel we have to wait for summer camps or a
festival to have the sublime or stimulating experience we all crave (that's
what got me thinking about our program here in NYC).  How do we address the
needs of beginners, experienced dancers and those in between at weekly
dances?  Should we just keep doing the same dances over and over -- walking
them through ad infinitum (or ad nauseum as the case may be)?  Can't there
be
a mix of calling styles in an evening dance (lengthy with teaching,
reasonably quick, with the music and keep going, FTWK)?  Does style matter?
Who decides?  Is there an ECD style that we agree on?  (I'm not sure based
on
conversations I've had over the years.)  How can beginners be taught the
basics and a general notion of style (assuming there is one) without boring
or irritating the more experienced dancers?  On the other hand, couldn't we
all use some reminders every now and again?  Should that be a part of doing
ECD on a weekly/monthly basis?  (As opposed to a Ball or Party.)  What about
repertoire?  Can't we mix new and old, long ways and sets in some reasonable
and stimulating way?  Are there dances everyone should know?  And how much
is
up to each one of us?  In other words, can we make the ECD dance experience
more interactive or responsive.  Something more than the usual teachers
calling and dancers dancing.  But requests, dancer input, etc.  Personally,
I
love it when the caller gets down from the stage and joins the line (Scott
is
particularly good at this). Or calls from the floor and moves around among
the dancers.

To reiterate, I'm sure all of these issues are being addressed at dances
everywhere.  Yet these various issues also seem to come up over and over in
casual conversations and more thought-out discussions -- at least in my
experience.  There must be something there we feel the need to talk about.

Personally, I think many of Colin's points are well-taken.  They didn't seem
entirely off the mark to me -- from what I've observed and experienced.
While I know they were controversial, I was hoping they would the jumping
off
point for some serious discussion about the current state of ECD.  Instead,
there were a few, "everything is just fine, thank you" and "what do you know
anyway" posts and discussion ceased.  This is unfortunate, IMHO.

Of course, we all come to and love ECD for different reasons.  Some love the
swoony dances; some like to be challenged; some only like the ones they
know,
some just want to do something sociable, etc., etc.  I think, if ECD is to
remain vital, we do need to talk about the things that concern us.  And, of
course, keep dancing as much as possible at the same time.

Suzanne // seeing no reason why we should make a great thing even better


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Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 11:17:53 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: RE: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
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>Lyrl asked: "What I fail to understand is why seeing the same people several
>times through leads to boredom...

Most Scottish country dances are triple minor danced in a four-couple set.
In this way, you are 1st couple twice, but with different corners, you get
a rest, and you get to be corners for the other couples. It works out fine,
doing the dance 8 times through. 
Do the same dance with only the 6 people actually needed for the dance, and
indeed a kind of boredom does set in after the third round. The landscape
isn't varied enough, even though the figures may be interesting or even
complicated.
Similarly, with 3-cp ECdances, outside the learning situation, I wouldn't
expect to do the dance more than 3 times through. 
Longways for as many as will (and American contra), on the other hand,
while simple in content, can remain interesting many times through, since
the landscape is different each time.

And re: the third term of the subject line; I'm always ready for the
unfamiliar, and I find most of the local dancers feel the same way; they
are always ready to learn a new dance. We get pleasure from novelty, just
as we get pleasure from redicovering the familiar.

Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
              (dance groups,  events,  some new dances ...)
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Subject: Re: Boredom - another look
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On Fri, 30 Mar 2001, Emma Rushton wrote:

> I know this is nit-picking, off-topic, possibly even flame-worthy, but I
> feel compelled to point out that "disinterested" means unbiased, without a
> stake in the outcome.  The word you want here is uninterested.  A perfectly
> good word and  even shorter than disinterested.

Thank you, Emma, for your erudite elucidation; if it were nit-picking, at
least you got your nit -- I am neither disinterested nor uninterested in
your observations!

Eric

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From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
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Subject: Re: ECD Thoughts
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On Sat, 31 Mar 2001, Alan Corkett wrote:

> I thought the decline/ageing thing was a UK problem!
> I am often the youngster and 65 next birthday.

Somehow I get the notion that the "ageing" problem is sometimes approched
from an unrealistic perspective -- that of someone who _isn't_ ageing
amidst a group of folks who are!  Whether it's just a favo(u)rite fantasy
or a refusal to accept the fact that one's self is ageing as fast as the
others in the community, it's easy to adopt that point of view.  

One solution to the "ageing" problem is to make dancing less attractive to
older folks.  I think, to certain extent, at least, this is practiced,
whether consciously or not, in both the American contra and the English
ceilidh scenes.  Behavio(u)r which is more prone to induce injury and loud
music seem to be characteristics frequently associated with these dance
types, and enjoyment seems to be derived more from energy level than
aesthetic qualities, as I see it.  

However, from the perspective of one who is ageing, I don't see the ageing
problem quite the same way.  I see it as a problem of how to keep it
accessable to older folks without automatically driving away younger ones.
We do, of course, have time on our side, in a sense -- the younger ones
will age, too (even if they haven't "started" to do that yet...), and then
perhaps they'll find this more interesting.  But just perhaps they'd be
pleased to discover that it isn't something you have to wait until you're
50 (as I did) to start to do.  

As an excellent form of physical activity, dancing has many benefits to
older folks.  It's _good_ that they want to dance and still can!  I
believe that those who start before they're "old" are likely to be able to
enjoy dance even longer into "old age."  

It is good to recognize that even young dancers, when they have children,
tend to get to dances much less frequently than folks without children.
That's OK.  Having the kids go with the parents to some dances is a great
way to let them know that the activity exists, and that it can be a fun
thing.  Seek to fill a useful social and recreational role for all ages,
but expect competition, and don't expect as much from the ages where the
competition is the greatest.  As kids leave for college/jobs/world
adventure/whatever, parents become freer; those without children may find
this sort of activity interesting and stimulating sooner than parents
might.  For the singles' community, it can be a wonderful social resource,
but expect that to have its consequences, too -- some folks are quite
successful at finding partners this way, and that, too, often provides
them with more competing ways of having a good time -- that's OK, too;
accept it!  So be happy with the occasional teen-ager or twentysomething
that dances with you; treasure those in their 30's who find this to be
something they enjoy; but don't be surprised or disappointed or feel that
you have failed if you don't seem to be attracting many folks on a regular
basis until they are in their 40's, 50's, & 60's.  

It's good to remember that "Elizabeth" was written for the 75th birthday
of a woman who started dancing when she was 70.  

So -- keep on dancing, even if you _are_ ageing!  Beats the alternative!

Eric

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Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 15:37:05 -0500
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
quiltr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
To: ECD-AT-
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CC: Ron Goodman <rgoodman-AT-
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I've found this discussion fascinating.  I agreed with much of it, 
such as Patricia's discussion of the difference between camp 
workshops and evening dance parties.  That difference is sometimes 
not appreciated or understood by campers or leaders right away.

For years I've wondered if I was peculiar, going back as far as my 
early contra dancing days.  I actually enjoyed doing the contra 
chestnuts where you might spend time standing still.  oh dear.  And 
today, I enjoy doing dances that would rate as easy or simple on the 
general scale of things.

First off, it's possible to dance completely and fully while doing 
these dances - dancing with the people you encounter.  You can strive 
to make your dance movements complete and part of a whole with the 
other dancers and the music.  Dancing to slower music isn't simple or 
easy.  Well I think you could say that simple isn't always easily 
danced well either.

I find that many dances have some moment or two that are a wonderful 
intersection of the choreography and the music - to dance fully and 
well (for me) means to enjoy those moments, anticipate them, enjoy 
them some more, share your enjoyment with others....

This means that the dances don't **have** to be complex.  Some very 
complex dances do indeed have these same types of moments.  Very 
complex dances need more work to get to the point of being able to 
dance them fully - where you're able to relax, anticipating what's to 
come and enjoying them without worrying about what comes next.   This 
isn't to say, IMHO, that there aren't dances that are worth learning 
and even struggling to learn.

But having said that, I will admit to having a list of dances that 
seem like "personal achievement dances" that people feel proud to 
have conquered, and which I find to be not so satisfying to do, even 
when I have a feeling of mastering them. Sometimes people seem to 
have a check off list - yes I have learned xyz dance, haven't you?

And in fact, I'll go so far as to admit to having a mental list of 
dances that have fabulous music and not enough in terms of 
happy/enjoyable moments in them. This is a list of dances that I wish 
someone would write a better dance to go with the music that is so 
enjoyable.

Much of this goes back to the reasons for dancing - social and 
physical activities combined.  Contra and English (and other group 
dance forms) probably suffer when people see it more as just an 
individual physical exercise, and overlook the social aspects. 
Getting back to the "personal achievement dances" -- it's possible to 
learn them and still not dance enjoyably.  One can do figures without 
being involved with them or the others dancing.  And there's also the 
situation where you know the figures but others are struggling even 
if only mentally.

OK, I've probably revealed too much but there you have it.  I do 
enjoy learning new dances, but especially those that are exciting and 
enjoyable to dance, not because they're hard or complex but because 
of the interactions: dancer-dancer, figure-music etc.

Mary Beth
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Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:47:44 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Set Dances, Boredom, and the Unfamiliar
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Mary Beth Goodman wrote:
"I actually enjoyed doing the contra chestnuts where you might spend time
standing still.  oh dear."

Well, that makes two of us.  I happen to agree with John Milton, who wrote
at the end of the sonnet "On His Dancing" --

"They also dance who only stand and watch."

Lovely remarks, Mary Beth.  All of them.

Pat


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Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 00:11:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Rwinslowdance-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Conference in UK
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Thanks to Colin Hume for so promptly writing a summary of the Playford 
Conference in UK.  Here are some additional thoughts from an attendee at the 
Playford Conference.

1.   It was exciting to hear the threads that are being found and developed 
that relate dance traditions before, during and beyond Playford in Italy, 
France and England.  It sounded as if the presenters gained insights from the 
others. Possibly we will eventually see how the many of the threads fit 
together.

2.   I found the interpretations of the Bray dances presented by Diane 
Cruikshank especially exciting because with her interpretations the figures 
clearly resolved themselves into squares, circles and lines and then flowed 
into figures where interaction with one's opposite was as much a part of the 
figure as interaction  with one's own partner.  For instance I remember two 
dancers moving with a right hand turn in the center while the other two 
dancers moved in a circle around the outside OR a figure resolving itself 
with turn singles into a line across the dance where the center two dancers 
interact with each other before facing their adjacent dancer.  The dances 
when viewed standing on the higher benches around the perimeter of the room 
definitely had theatrical potential.  I hope to see her versions of the 
dances published soon.

3.  The Playford Ball Saturday evening had the added dimension of dancers of 
a recreational and a historical background dancing together.  I found it 
comfortable to respond when dancers from the historical dance community added 
appropriate steps.  As a result those dances had a different feel which added 
to the pleasure of the evening.  It was also interesting to note that the 
costume or dress of a dancer was not a reliable clue as to which dancers also 
assumed a persona related to the period of the dances.
 
4.  The graphs in Bob Keller's presentation were revealing and suggestive of 
the natural and ongoing evolution of the types of dances selected over time.  

This evolution seems to me to be very true today in the US ECD community and 
I suspect in the UK ECD.  It is a natural reflection of the social nature of 
the dancing and of what dancer's are responding to.   

It was a wonderful weekend.

Peter Ogle