Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:06:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 09:42:54 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ecd list Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003301bfffb4$9be5fb80$bb98adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT And more... ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Pick To: Paul Stamler Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 4:36 PM Subject: Re: Fw: cri de coeur Interesting set of replies. I have a couple answers below. >When mass culture (which, by the way, is produced to be *consumed* by the >masses, it is not produced or *performed* by the masses) gives us something >as lasting as the music of composers from Bach through Mahler, I will >certainly not denigrate it. I'm tempted to say we'll talk about this in a couple hundred years, but I'll give it a quick, short shot: Louis Armstrong's "West End Blues." Cole Porter, any number of examples Elvis Presley, "Mystery Train." the complete works of the Beatles the complete works of Elvis Costello It's important to remember that at the time Bach and Beethoven and Mahler and all the giants were creating those masterpieces you so correctly and understandably love, there were mediocre talents at work, too. You can't write off the entire culture's output any more than you can praise all of it. > >In its music, I am convinced that Europe achieved what has never been >achieved anywhere else, a complexity of harmonies with precise timing of >rhythm and precise pitching of tone, a range of expression, all backed up >by the extraordinary craftsmanship of of the makers of the many different >instruments that developed in the 17th & 18th centuries. Well, I suppose if complexity of harmony is your only desire, you're probably right. Although, I've heard Sweet Honey In the Rock get pretty complex now and again. On the other hand, it's possible, just possible, that the requirements of a pop song, three perfect minutes of expression that do, in fact, stretch melodically, rhythmically, and sonically, are different, but valid in and of themselves. At least, I know I've spent all my life being enthralled by music you seem to hate, as well as some you seem to love. >The music we use for country dancing is a result of these developments. Albeit greatly simplified. You can't have music of the common people be as complex as music of the trained geniuses. At least not often. >Europe also achieved great advances in philosophy and science, but has not >always used the discovereries for the greater good of mankind, alas Gee whiz, that's kind of like the rest of the world in the 20th century, not to mention the creators of pop music. ! >On the other hand, (as far as I know) no harm ever came of Europe's musical >discoveries >Bach took popular rhythms (jigs hornpipes etc) and developed them into >lasting masterpieces. We may not agree with the religious words that were >attached to the music (without which Bach's work would never have gained >acceptance), but they do not prevent us from appreciating the musical >qualities. Similarly, we may consider that most songs are mere froth, but >that does not stop us aiming at perfection when we sing them. That sounds like my feelings towards the classic "Surfing Bird" by the Trashmen. > >Now we are throwing away the greatness we achieved. Instead of passing an >appreciation of this greatness, we are allowing ourselves to be swamped in >mediocrity. Ne need to create interssting harmonies -- the synthesizer will >do all th wxork; no need for a singer to work on his voice -- it will be >digitialized and imperfections will vanish. There is no machine that does all the work. The creator still decides what's being created. Why not consider the possibility that the creator may be on to something you just don't understand? That doesn't mean you have to like it all. I hate a lot of the music that fits the description you're giving. But, I hate it because it's dull, uninteresting, lifeless music. I haven't found a genre yet that doesn't have it's share of fascinating, exhilarating, lively music, too. > >I have come to know and like the music of some non-european cultures, I >feel I am open to styles other than those I grew up with. I can get an >emotional lift from Arab music, for example, but when I think about it, >there has been no striving to achieve greatness and no development. I think the idea of continuous progress went out about 75 years ago, or maybe 40. At any rate, for every gain in the world, there is a loss, and that has always been, and it always will be. So music isn't marching along a straight path anymore. That straight path led to Stockhausen, and I get the feeling you're not too keen on that result. Why not consider the possibility that there is much to explore on the side roads once ignored? > >>the traditional folk music this guy seems to revere was once the music of >>the masses, the illiterate, the unrefined, the tasteless. > >This guy does not revere trad folk music, but he may enjoy it when it is >played well) you and me both, brother. > >>It's not bloody easy to make money in the pop music world. > >Pull the other one ! >Record companies are raking it in. Some record companies are raking it in. Some operate at a loss. There is no job security for the people in the bizness. It's virtually impossible to be a working pop musician and make a lot of money. That's a crap shoot where the odds are dead set against you. > >> endless replication of the same old >>arguments (...) of how >>things just aren't as good as they once were culturally. > >It's not the cultural (musical) change I am moaning about. I'm bemoaning >the fact that our culture has been taken out of our hands. The latest >fashion in clothes or the latest trend in music was decided months in >advance by the merchants that supply the goods -- the People have nothing >to do with either creation or choice. We are consumers, not creators? I've never bought the idea that the People have to be creators. I think people with talent should create what they have a talent for creating. If they don't have the talent, well, they can mess around, and have a good time, but leave me out of it. I want to hear the good stuff. The belief that some puppets are out there pulling the strings as to what trends make it big in popular culture has been debunked over and over again, yet people love to believe it. It's an urban myth, and one that should be obviously false if you bother to consider all the stuff that gets thrown out there into the marketplace that goes nowhere. Why should a record store be filled with thousands of CDs if it's possible to predict with exactitude which ones will make millions of dollars? If this were possible, and I was heading the record company, I'd put all my attention on the three or four records I had that could make me millions, and I'd stop bothering with all the others. >puppets not actors. > >We amy have gotten rid of the oppressive rule of the aristocraxcy and the >church, but we have put ourselves in the hands of ... big business. > >The traditional/folk/country dancing world however is still free of this >commercialism. I don't feel that the musicians expect to make a fortune out >of their playing or recording, any more than the teachers or devisers >expect to get much for their efforts. The dancers are not just consumers, >they perform for their own pleasure (some even create new steps and >figures, though that may be by accident !) and to share with others. May >this spirit long remain ! That spirit is there, but don't be fooled. There is an element of consumerism in the folk world, or every folk musician would be enjoyed equally, and rewarded equally. That's ridiculous. There are great musicians who get bigger crowds. There are also mediocre ones who get bigger crowds. And sometimes great musicians draw nothing. It's all down to being in the marketplace. Steve Pick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:11:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 11:13:17 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <006501c04427$084c3800$5cffdcd1-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <003301bfffb4$9be5fb80$bb98adce-AT- pstamler> Hi folks: For reasons I fail to understand, a message of mine from August just came to me from the ECD list. This is also happening from other lists. No, I haven't gone nuts and started sending out old mail. But something weird is going on. Sorry! Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:21:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:21:20 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Paul Stamler wrote: > Hi folks: > > For reasons I fail to understand, a message of mine from August just came to > me from the ECD list. This is also happening from other lists. No, I haven't > gone nuts and started sending out old mail. But something weird is going on. It's those lost souls aimlessly wandering about last night that are responsible, no doubt... }8-o ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 09:29:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 12:29:28 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: What's behind the names? To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Having just done a dance with a Halloween theme, I am wondering about the backgrounds of dances like "The Gelding of the Devil" and "An Old Man is a Bed full of Bones." Political satire seems to be a significant component in the origins of a number of early dances, with the titles and/or tunes being connected to songs or masques with political themes. If anyone on this list knows of any such connections for either of these dances, or for other similarly suggestive titles, I'd really appreciate learning more about them. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 14:15:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:19:46 +0100 From: M Sheffield Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001101231946.0081d050-AT- pop.wanadoo.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 09:42 06/08/00 -0500, you wrote: >>The traditional/folk/country dancing world however is still free of this >>commercialism. ... > > > don't be fooled. There is an element of >consumerism in the folk world, or every folk musician would be ... Don't mix up the folk/country dancing world, and the folk (singers') world. While there's a glut of modern folk music records in the shops ("ethnic", "celtic", or whatever style happens to be in fashion), you'll have a long search before you find recordings of country dance music, since this is just not a money spinner, whereas the former (which bear as much resemblance to older trad music as chalk to cheese) are merely a further product off the commercial assembly line. Dance musicians are not in the market place at all. Long may the dancing we love remain free. (This must be the longest discussion on one subject that I have ever taken part in) Martin, in Grenoble, France. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm (dance groups, some new dances ...) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:19:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:18:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Berger Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, M Sheffield wrote: > Don't mix up the folk/country dancing world, and the folk (singers') world. > While there's a glut of modern folk music records in the shops ("ethnic", > "celtic", or whatever style happens to be in fashion), you'll have a long > search before you find recordings of country dance music, since this is > just not a money spinner, whereas the former (which bear as much > resemblance to older trad music as chalk to cheese) are merely a further > product off the commercial assembly line. I own ECD recordings by the Broadside Band, Pyewackett, and Bare Necessities. They weren't hard to find at all. CDSS has a number of other options. Of course, it's entirely possible that the moment one sets foot in a recording studio one instantly crosses the boundary between the dance world and the folk world, and becomes a "product off the commercial assembly line." This analysis is a little to simplistic for my tastes, but it may work for some. ------------------------------- Jon Berger Personal: jberger-AT- monitor.net Business: jon-AT- perforce.com http://www.monitor.net/~jberger ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:41:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 15:41:25 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001101234125.22365.qmail-AT- web3302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- M Sheffield wrote: > While there's a glut of modern folk music records in the shops > ("ethnic", "celtic", or whatever style happens to be in > fashion), you'll have a long search before you find recordings > of country dance music, since this is just not a money spinner, > whereas the former (which bear as much resemblance to older > trad music as chalk to cheese) are merely a further product off > the commercial assembly line. > This may be true where you live, or in some music traditions, but I find old Scandinavian recordings at the local Borders Book and Music store. There are also a lot of modern non-traditional recordings, but not too long ago I found a recording of traditional (dating from the 17th Century) Hardangerfiddle tunes recorded in 1946,1948 and 1951. Much of the modern Scandinavian music draws on the old traditions much in the way that contemporary Celtic music does and the recordings of many groups include traditional as well as modern compositions. I have not looked specifically for ECD music, but doubt that I would find any, unless it is in the classical section. It wouldn't be in the Folk or Ethnic/World music sections. Andy in Portland, OR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:21:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:21:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JW154P22MQ99DS94-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andy wrote: This may be true where you live, or in some music traditions, but I find old Scandinavian recordings at the local Borders Book and Music store. There are also a lot of modern non-traditional recordings, but not too long ago I found a recording of traditional (dating from the 17th Century) Hardangerfiddle tunes recorded in 1946,1948 and 1951. Much of the modern Scandinavian music draws on the old traditions much in the way that contemporary Celtic music does and the recordings of many groups include traditional as well as modern compositions. I have not looked specifically for ECD music, but doubt that I would find any, unless it is in the classical section. It wouldn't be in the Folk or Ethnic/World music sections. I found a cool CD called "Best of the BarelyWorks"[1] - which may approach the kind of thing Martin is thinking of as English Country music[2] - in the World Music section at Tower Records. (It actually made me twitch to find 'British Isles' in the World Music section[3], and it made me twitch again to find a historical volume of early recordings by music hall greats in there too.) The ECD genre includes both music-that-we-think-of-as-classical and music-that-we-think-of-as-folk (the Community Dance Manuals material), even if in fact - as Philippe Callens says, the music for 'Double Lead Through' actually derives from a Victorian operetta - but the style in which most people play music for it is more like classical, so that's a reasonable place to put the records if you don't have a really generic 'dance music' section. [4,5] -- Alan [1] This had a really kick-butt version of "Byker Hill" on it, which I managed to play enough that my roommate got pretty tired of it, and is generally a brilliant album with a mixture of "trad" and newly composed material. [2] "English Country Music" is a term of art in English Ceilidh circles, where it apparently derives from a particular recording of that title, which had traditional music played in the English countryside in traditional style. Confusing it with "English Country Dance Music" is fatal to comprehension. [3] I suppose I twitched because I still think of British-Isles-derived culture as the dominant culture here in the US, and putting it in World Music comparatively marginalized it, putting it on the same level of as any Third World country. I would have expected to find that stuff in Folk. But hey, why shouldn't it be in World Music? Logically, the only stuff that shouldn't be in World Music is "Music from the Hearts of Space." [4] The ceilidh people seem to be pretty sold on the idea that their music is gritty, rootsy, authentic folk music, even the ones who deliberately mix a township beat with the English tunes, compose new tunes, etc. [5] Has anybody ever seen a record store that put all the dance music in one section? As it is now,Irish dance music and Scottish dance music would be in Folk or World Music, ECD in Classical, EC in Folk, etc, etc. =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:14:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:00:20 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <006a01c0447b$45145340$3796adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JW154P22MQ99DS94-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <> Indeed -- and Britain is, last I heard, still part of the World. But seriously, the "World Music" classification, in the American radio and record-store-dept. universes, has two slightly-variant meanings. One is "Music from Outside the U.S.A."; the other is "Music Not In the English Language". (The latter definition places Cajun music in the World Music category, while the former doesn't.) Classifications are specious in the long term, but they are useful if you have to find things in a record store. As for British-Isles-derived culture being dominant in this country, I don't think so, not anymore, at least as a sole dominator in the musical field. The African-derived music is at least as important, culturally, and probably has been since the beginning, with a third, perhaps lesser component from German oom-pah bands. (What did they contribute? Only the left hand in ragtime and the precursor style to New Orleans jazz. Not to mention the alternating bass that was at the bottom of the blues.) <<[5] Has anybody ever seen a record store that put all the dance music in one section? As it is now,Irish dance music and Scottish dance music would be in Folk or World Music, ECD in Classical, EC in Folk, etc, etc.>> Now I *like* that idea! Think of the cross-pollination possibilities as the customers flip from electronic-trance-dance music to polskas to rock'n'roll to Mozart to...oh, there's just one problem. That category would include about 80% of the records in the store. Would still love to see someone try it. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:14:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:06:02 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <006b01c0447b$464a1420$3796adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Berger <> They weren't hard to find because you already know where to look. But go into your average record store anywhere in the U.S.A. and I guarantee you won't find any of those except, just maybe, Bare Necessities, if the store has a sizeable folk section. You might be able to order the Broadside Band if the store has a decent classical section and therefore orders from Qualiton, but you won't be able to get Pyewackett at all. In fact, in most of the stores in the country, which are chains, you won't find anything even closely related to ECD. Not in the 3-4 racks of classical (which range the gamut from the Three Tenors to the Four Seasons), not in the folk section (if it exists, it's probably wrapped with country, which mostly isn't country any more, or perhaps easy listening -- record stores think John Denver is folk). The average mainstream record store is rock, hip-hop, "country" and that's about it. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:14:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:11:58 -0600 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <006c01c0447b$4745d940$3796adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.5.32.20001101231946.0081d050-AT- pop.wanadoo.fr> ----- Original Message ----- From: M Sheffield <> We are, and it isn't. We eat, we pay rent, we get our cars fixed when we can afford it. That's one of the reasons we insist that you pay us. And that, in turn, is one reason why the dancers pay to dance. Like it or not, we're part of a mercantile society. Despite Ginsberg's famous plea, none of us can go into a grocery store and buy what we need with our good looks. We sell our labor, and dance groups, whether they're explicit or not, sell their attendees an evening of good entertainment. Trying to figure how to attract new dancers is essentially an exercise in marketing, unsavory as that term is to most people (including me). Everything in our culture is commodified. Would I wish it to be otherwise? Sure. But it's not gonna happen in our lifetimes. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:24:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 22:24:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT nOn Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Paul Stamler wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jon Berger > > In fact, in most of the stores in the country, which are chains, you won't > find anything even closely related to ECD. Not in the 3-4 racks of classical > (which range the gamut from the Three Tenors to the Four Seasons), not in > the folk section A good friend of mine who lives in NYC used to visit the porn shops in Times Square (It was cleaned up about five years ago or so). In the back of those shops, she would find a dusty rack of records, and frequently, such gems as the Jimmy Shand "My Scotland" for its origianl price, not the ten times price it was going for in folk crowds at that time. I never dared go into porn shops, but often visited Greek or Near Eastern neighborhood stores for dance records. I taught myself enough Greek to read the labels, but just guessed when it came to Arabic. got some great records. forget Borders. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:25:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:25:49 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JW1CB5WQIW99FBV3-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul Stamler replied: >As for British-Isles-derived culture being dominant in this country, I don't >think so, not anymore, at least as a sole dominator in the musical field. >>The African-derived music is at least as important, culturally, and probably >has been since the beginning, with a third, perhaps lesser component from >German oom-pah bands. (What did they contribute? Only the left hand in >ragtime and the precursor style to New Orleans jazz. Not to mention the >alternating bass that was at the bottom of the blues.) I would have twitched if I'd seen ragtime or jazz or Howlin' Wolf in World Music, too. I definitely didn't mean to discount the importance of music genres with African heritage - whether that's blues, jazz, rock, or reggae. But despite the US being part of the world too, it would have surprised me to see (American) blues, rock, or jazz records in World Music. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 05:25:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 11:37:58 +0100 From: M Sheffield Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001102113758.00810a80-AT- pop.wanadoo.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 15:18 01/11/00 -0800, you wrote: >I own ECD recordings by the Broadside Band, (etc) >They weren't hard to find at all. Perhaps you are luclier on that side of the ocean. Over here, you have to order your records from specialist suppliers or from the musicians themselves. Martin, in Grenoble, France. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm (dance groups, some new dances ...) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:24:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:23:08 -0500 From: Torbin Zimmerman Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3A016ABC.4363D34B-AT- interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JW154P22MQ99DS94-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote (in part): > I found a cool CD called "Best of the BarelyWorks"[1] ...in > the World Music section at Tower Records. (It actually made me twitch > to find 'British Isles' in the World Music section[3], and it made me > twitch again to find a historical volume of early recordings by music hall > greats in there too.) Your Towers should be congratulated. My local Towers has its few English traditional CDs in the Celtic section. When I questioned this choice, the salesperson replied, "Oh, well, most English music is pop music anyway." I try to consider the search part of the pleasure. Torbin Zimmerman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:25:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:24:57 -0500 (EST) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: What's behind the names? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Eric asked: >I am wondering about the backgrounds of dances like "The Gelding >of the Devil" and "An Old Man is a Bed full of Bones." Political >satire seems to be a significant component in the origins of a >number of early dances, with the titles and/or tunes being >connected to songs or masques with political themes. I've mentioned this point here before, so I'll keep it brief: It often helps, in thinking about this kind of question, to start out by checking to see if the name of the dance fits the notes of the tune (ie., is it likely to have been the lyric?). I don't know either of these two tunes, so that's as far as I go. Once you have answered that one, however, you are closer to knowing whether the name actually has meaning that applies to the dance or it's just the name of the tune the dance was set to. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:15:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 18:15:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011021815.SAA26618-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thursday, November 02, 2000 at 12:06:02 AM, Paul Stamler wrote: > but you won't be able to get Pyewackett at all. I believe that there may still be some cassettes of Pyewackett's 7 to Midnight dance album available (I am fairly sure that there are no more CDs). If anyone is interested please let me know and I will pass the enquiries on to Rosie Cross. Michael Barraclough Itinerant C17 & C21 Dancing Master (previously caller with Pyewackett and dance advisor for the Pyewackett dance album). -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 11:17:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 11:17:51 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102191751.25840.qmail-AT- web3303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Torbin Zimmerman wrote: > ...the salesperson replied, "Oh, well, most English music is > pop music anyway." > Just showing the ignorance of people who have grown up with only Rock music in their diet. Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:03:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:03:11 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102210311.11982.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Paul Stamler wrote: > ...not in the folk section (if it exists, it's probably wrapped > with country, which mostly isn't country any more, or perhaps > easy listening -- record stores think John Denver is folk). It depends on your definition of "folk". Do you consider that it has to be strictly "traditional" (whatever you define that as) and exclude the many "contemporary" artists that are filed under "Folk" at better record stores?? And with the changes in "Country" music today, are Charlie Poole, Gid Tanner and the Carter Family now to be considered "Folk"? John Denver is considered "Folk" if only because of the beginnings of his national exposure as the replacement for Chad Mitchell in the Mitchell Trio. I saw him with the Mitchell Trio in 1968 in one of their last concerts before breaking up and the concert included a banjo player by the name of Paul Prestopino playing back-up. Paul, who was on the last Mitchell Trio albums as well as some of John Denver's early albums, is now to be found in New Jersey playing for dances (including ECD) with Hold the Mustard. > The average mainstream record store is rock, hip-hop, "country" > and that's about it. > That's because what the media hypes sells. It's also why most of us listen to Public Radio if we have it on at all. Most of the Rock music of 25-35 years ago hasn't survived the test of time. (A friend of mine judges what was actually good music of that time by whether it has entered the orchestral arena.) The stuff that is called Rock today hardly resembles what was called Rock when I was growing up and most of it probably won't survive either. ECD music is not part of the media hype (when is the last time you heard ECD music on pop radio?), although I personally believe that many of the dance musicians that I know have a lot more talent than any of those millionaire Rock artists wailing on electric guitars. You can do a lot with electronics to cover up a lack of real musical talent. Our society does not nurture doers. Our entire entertainment industry is based upon thousands, or even millions, of people watching someone else do something. (To paraphrase something I read, pro football is tens of thousands of spectators who desperately need the exercise watching twenty-two players on the field who desperately need the rest.) How do you get all those thousands off their rear-ends and get them to participate as doers??? The challenge isn't just to find ways of "marketing" ECD, it is also getting exposure in todays electronic society for all of the very talented dance musicians that we know and enjoy hearing. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:16:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:15:59 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102211559.19103.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing > > <<[5] Has anybody ever seen a record store that put all the > dance music in one section? As it is now,Irish dance music and > Scottish dance music would be in Folk or World Music, ECD in > Classical, EC in Folk, etc, etc.>> > --- Paul Stamler wrote: > Now I *like* that idea! Think of the cross-pollination >possibilities as the customers flip from electronic-trance-dance > music to polskas to rock'n'roll to Mozart to...oh, there's just > one problem. That category would include about 80% of the > records in the store. Would still love to see someone try > it. > The Borders store in downtown Portland does have a section labeled "Dance" but I've never seen anything that I would dance to in there (ECD, Contra, Scandinavian, Vintage, Lindy and Swing). It seems to be the Rock music that is found in "clubs" around town and doesn't even include popular swing bands. Swing has become very popular among teens and young adults since the Crystal Ballroom was re-opened. Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 13:22:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:22:28 -0500 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT While you're asking Rosie, ask her to put all the rest of the records out on CD, and keep them out there. My turntable died and I don't really like tapes. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:51:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 14:51:21 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Worlds and Ages Music (was Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102225121.11730.qmail-AT- web1601.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > I found a cool CD called "Best of the BarelyWorks"[1] - which may > approach > the kind of thing Martin is thinking of as English Country music[2] > - in > the World Music section at Tower Records. (It actually made me > twitch > to find 'British Isles' in the World Music section[3], and it made > me > twitch again to find a historical volume of early recordings by > music hall > greats in there too.) Okay, that reminds me of a story that's just too good not to share. A number of years ago when I was still living in Boston and Harvard Square was still a great place to find nonelectric street entertainment (anyone here remember the Shakespeare Brothers? The Fantasy Jugglers? those were the days) I was in the Square one evening listening to someone play O'Carolan and tunes of that ilk on the hammered dulcimer. Standing next to me was a fellow in full punk regalia. At a break between tunes this fellow turned to me with a sigh and said something to the effect of "Isn't this New Age music the greatest?" I told him that the hammered dulcimer was actually one of the oldest musical instruments known and he looked a little crestfallen, but then perked up and said "But he's playing New Age songs." Hey, the important thing is, he recognized quality. As Alan says, it's all World Music, and it all belongs to the Holocene. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:15:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:15:52 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Where in the World? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102231552.17606.qmail-AT- web1605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT And while we're on the topic of world music here's a question I've recently been wondering about. Where in the world was ECD danced during it's heydey (not of course to contradict Gene Murrow's assertion that _now_ is the Golden Age of English Dance)? I wanted to do up a publicity piece with the hook line that "For 2 1/2 centuries it was the most popular form of dance in the world..." And then I thought, well I can't really say that because I'd be equating something that was popular in Europe and North America with the whole world, leaving out a few continents and cultures, such as Africa, Latin America, Australia and Asia (not to mention Greenland as has been discussed here recently). I could always say "most popular in England, Europe and North America" although that lacks some of the zing, or possibly more accurately "in the Western World", but then I started thinking about the fact that it made it over here to the U.S. because of the English colonists, and the English did after all make it to parts of all those other continents as well, in fact taking over in many places - and where they didn't some other European power did. So, did they also take the dancing with them? Was what we call English Country dancing a part of the colonial culture on other continents? Or in other words, if the sun never set on the British empire, does that mean it never set on English dancing as well? Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:22:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:22:16 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Elm City Ball revisited To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001102232216.21857.qmail-AT- web1608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I will try to keep this down to a single posting this time! I've been asked by a number of people for the list of dances that will be on the Elm City Ball Program. The program is still "in process" and as soon as it has been finalized, I will post it for the benefit of the list. But I can tell you this much. It's going to be good! Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:01:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:01:48 -0800 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Where in the World? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001102160148.007d9d00-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara Ruth wrote the English did after all make >it to parts of all those other continents as well, in fact taking >over in many places - and where they didn't some other European power >did. So, did they also take the dancing with them? Was what we call >English Country dancing a part of the colonial culture on other >continents? Or in other words, if the sun never set on the British >empire, does that mean it never set on English dancing as well? Someone at Pinewoods a few years ago came to a workshop on Rummaging on the Internet in order to research the English Origins of Australian dances. Yes, definitely, the dances migrated, though not completely unchanged by local custom and other ethnic influences. A Polish workshop at Centrum's International Dance Week some years ago included a Polish dance called "Shirozh" which is a variant of "Sir Roger de coverly" Say "Sir Rog" and "Shirozh" to realize that the name's the same too. South Africa includes dances of Dutch Origin, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are English dances there as well. Anybody know some? At a dance class for Senior Citizens, a Philippine woman in her eighties asked me "Do you know the Rigadoun?" She had danced this at formal balls in her youth in the Philippines, and described it as a longways set dance. (From England to Spain to the Philippines? Or maybe the Rigadoun started elsewhere before it came to England?) About 15 years ago I went to a workshop on dances and songs of the Georgia Sea Islands. I was fascinated with the cultural roots of the material. Some of the stuff was straight Yoruba (my husband was in the peace corps in Nigeria so we own musical instruments and recordings and fabrics from the Yoruba people) Many of the stories and games were Yoruba, and all the instruments were; agogo (two metal cowbells, attached), gourd rattles, talking drums. But one of the games included a section to which you sing " Wind up this Borrin". The teacher thought it came from the fact that folks were poor and always "borrowin" things from each other. But the figure and the words are the same as the British singing game figure "Wind up the Bobbin" or "Wind up the Ball o'Yarn" -- a line that spirals inwards until everyone is packed together like a ball of yarn. The Opies (husband and wife team I think, I forget the first names) wrote a compendium on children's singing games years ago, and the most fascinating thing I remember from an extensive book is that there was a children's singing game from a Cockney area of London --the only place this version of the game existed. One family from that area of London migrated to Australia. Singing games are not written or recorded, and adults are never involved in teaching children these games-- jump rope rhymes, ball bouncing chants, singing games are spread from kid to kid. Even so, it took only three years for the song and game to have spread all over Australia. Powerful stuff, this folklore. So I'm sure others have examples of pieces of Britain sucessfully transplanted and maybe mutated into other music and dance traditions. Victoria ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 18:03:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:03:36 -0500 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Where in the world? To: English Dance Message-ID: <000601c0453a$46df4170$21991c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara Ruth asked: "Where in the world was ECD danced during it's heydey...?" When Howard and I were in Denmark on a folk dancers' exchange trip some of the Danish leaders and teachers told us that ECD was indeed done in Denmark in the 18th c. (no mention of 19th c. specifically). The national folk dance organization (DGI, and I don't recall exactly what the letters stand for) does not promote country dancing, considering it to be not "of the folk" but rather of the upper classes. Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 00:00:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 07:59:58 +0000 From: Ron Hawkins Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Opies To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003e01c0456c$109ec900$33debbd4-AT- wmnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20001102160148.007d9d00-AT- oz.net> Paul wrote > The Opies (husband and wife team I think, I forget the first names) wrote a > compendium on children's singing games years ago Husband and wife Iona and Peter Opie - recognised as leading authorities on nursery rhymes, playground games, childhood lore etc etc.. Wrote "The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren" (1963) edited the "Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes" and much other stuff. Collected and produced a wealth of material over a 20 - 30 year period. Sorry slightly (?) off-topic. [waits for blast from list moderator] Ron H ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 00:26:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:25:17 +0000 From: jmtraining Subject: Re: Opies To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003e01c0456f$b1a8f3e0$2d19ff3e-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20001102160148.007d9d00-AT- oz.net> <003e01c0456c$109ec900$33debbd4-AT- wmnt> Peter and Iona John Meechan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Hawkins To: Sent: Friday, November 03, 2000 7:59 AM Subject: Opies > Paul wrote > > > The Opies (husband and wife team I think, I forget the first names) wrote > a > > compendium on children's singing games years ago > > > Husband and wife Iona and Peter Opie - recognised as leading authorities on > nursery rhymes, playground games, childhood lore etc etc.. > > Wrote "The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren" (1963) edited the "Oxford > Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes" and much other stuff. Collected and produced > a wealth of material over a 20 - 30 year period. > > Sorry slightly (?) off-topic. [waits for blast from list moderator] > > Ron H > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 02:43:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:45:24 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Haydn To: ECD discussion list Message-ID: <3A029744.429BDD0C-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I learnt "The Haydn", a simple three-couple longways, several years ago from John Lagden. I have just looked up in Hugh Stewart's database and it seems to be written by Audrey Town and published in "The Village Maid". As far as I can check, the booklet is no longer available. Can anyone provide me with some more information? Thanks. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 11:54:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001103200929.19316.qmail-AT- web1604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Andrew Peterson wrote: > > --- Paul Stamler wrote: > > record stores think John Denver is folk). > > It depends on your definition of "folk". Maybe the issue at question isn't whether what John Denver does should be considered "folk" but rather whether what he does should be considered music. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 12:04:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 15:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: cri de coeur To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 11/3/0 7:54:54 PM, you wrote: <<> It depends on your definition of "folk". Maybe the issue at question isn't whether what John Denver does should be considered "folk" but rather whether what he does should be considered music. Barbara>> He spends his time decomposing these days. Does that count as music? Actually, John Denver's music may be saccharine stuff, but it certainly is better than a lot of the junk that seems to merit serious reviews and discussion on NPR. He made serious attempts at folk-style music in the days of Peter, Paul and Mary and Joan Baez, who seemed like genuine "folk" to me then, even if they did make it to the big time. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 17:30:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 20:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #840 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39.c359a95.2734c095-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 3/11/00 3:01:56 pm, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >ECD music is not part of the media hype (when is the last time >you heard ECD music on pop radio?) Easy to answer that one! Mike Oldfield made a recording (instrumental) of the 'Playford' tune "Portsmouth" back in the late seventies which got very high in the pop charts. Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 02:52:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:54:19 +0000 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT **For those of you who are also on the 'eceilidh' maillist there will be a sense of deja-vu about this posting. It was originally sent to both lists but failed on the ECD list because of technical issues which are now resolved. Here is a new dance which you are all welcome to use. Although it was written as an American Contra it should easily translate into the more physical eceilidh genre or to the American version of English Country Dance (ECD). For those on the eceilidh list you may be surprised to learn that the American Contra scene is in many ways more physically demanding than eceilidh. Although (dance) walked rather than stepped, the pace is usually fast and dances can often last 20-30 times through with considerable improvisation from many of the dancers. RHONDA'S ROMANCE Author: Michael Barraclough First performed: Abbey Pub, Chicago, 11 September 2000 Formation: Longways duple minor, 1st couples improper (or sicillian circle) Style: American Contra Rhonda is Rhonda Hotop and September 11 was Rhonda's last visit to the weekly dance run by the Chicago Barn Dance Company at the Abbey as she was moving to take up a post at the Westin Arts Academy in Fort Collins, Colorado. A1 Bars 1-2: Balance (American style) with neighbour, and A1 Bars 3-4: box the gnat with neighbour, and A1 Bars 5-8: swing neighbour (you should be able to get a real cool, smooth transition into the swing (end facing across the set, neighbour by your side = progression) A2 Bars 1-4 Lines forward and back A2 Bars 5-8 Do-si-do partner (American style) B1 Bars 1-4 Gypsey partner B1 Bars 5-8 Swing partner (ending with 2s facing down and 1s facing up) B2 Bars 1-4 Circle left (to these places) B2 Bars 5-6 Balance the circle in and out (let go of neighbour and) B2 Bars 7-8 California twirl with partner to face new neighbour By the way, the dance tells a tale - after a brief flirtation with your neighbour you get ever closer to your partner until you melt into each others arms and swing. As the dance goes on you are for ever tempted but always return to your own. Michael Barraclough 17th & 21st Century Dancing Master ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 03:13:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 11:12:54 +0000 From: Ron Hawkins Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003401c04650$2eca1ee0$55a5bbd4-AT- wmnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Mike Barraclough said: > **For those of you who are also on the 'eceilidh' maillist there will be a > sense of deja-vu about this posting. It was originally sent to both lists > but failed on the ECD list because of technical issues which are now > resolved. Thanks Mike - I took the dance off the original EC posting, and I hope you don't mind but I gave a copy of it to John Chapman when we were working with him at his club in Stratford a couple of weeks ago. He was thrilled and he said that he and Dee will work on it and try it out next time we play there - I'll let you know how it goes. Did you have any particular tune in mind to go with it? Ta Ron H ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 07:57:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:57:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: transatlantic question To: ecd-digest-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Following up on some recent messages, I'd be glad to hear some informed views as to differences in style between "English country dance and Playford, American style," and "English country dance and Playford, British style." I've been to what I gather were Ceilidhs in England (I'm no expert but I gather that is what they were, mostly at Sword Dance festivals' evening entertainments), but never to anything allegedly or recognizably "Playford", "country dance" etc. in England. I apologize in advance for bringing up something on-topic, as opposed to interminably rambling off-topic on the list about anything I damned well please. I hope you all will forgive me. I feel ashamed of myself, in fact. Please don't hit me when next you see me in line at a dance. Steve Corrsin corrsin1-AT- hotmail.com 5166 Patrick Rd. West Bloomfield MI 48322 tel (248) 661-6283 fax (248) 661-6288 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:08:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 10:08:52 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: transatlantic question To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001104180852.15115.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- "Stephen D. Corrsin" wrote: > I apologize in advance for bringing up something on-topic, as > opposed to interminably rambling off-topic on the list about > anything I damned well please. I hope you all will forgive me. > I feel ashamed of myself, in fact. Please don't hit me when > next you see me in line at a dance. > Okay, I'll bite while we are "on-topic". Last night was the opening dance of the Portland English Ball weekend and it was a wonderful dance in a large hall that was not filled nearly to capacity. The Ball itself will be at the Portland Art Museum's North Annex Ballroom and we have lots of room for as many people as want to come. It's a huge room. Just hop on a plane and get here by 7:00PM. Happy dancing wherever you are. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:01:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:01:06 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001104210106.27136.qmail-AT- web1606.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Friends, I am sorry to report that Christine recently fell and broke her pelvic bone. According to Marshall Barron, she is comfortable and recovering well, but lonesome, in the health center of the complex in which she lives. Visits are welcome from those who live close enough, and telephone calls as well. She is awake and alert and happy to talk to people. Needless to say, cards and letters would be extremely welcome. It would be nice to inundate Christine with get-well cards and messages. Please everyone, let's tell Christine know how much she matters to this community. Mailing address: Christine Helwig c/o Whitney Health Center 200 Leeder Hill Drive Hamden, CT 06517-2749 Telepone: (203) 281-6745. This is the lobby phone. To reach Christine call that number and ask to be put through to her. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 13:13:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 21:13:28 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011042113.VAA28245-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ron H wrote (re Michael Barraclough's new dance "Rhonda's Romance" > Thanks Mike - I took the dance off the original EC posting, and I hope you > don't mind but I gave a copy of it to John Chapman when we were working with > him at his club in Stratford a couple of weeks ago. He was thrilled and he > said that he and Dee will work on it and try it out next time we play > there - I'll let you know how it goes. > > Did you have any particular tune in mind to go with it? > There is no specific tune for it - the tune chosen should reflect the style of dance (eceilidh, contra ECD etc) that it is being used for. If you want any guidance then I would suggest a tune with an A music that has a 2bar/2bar/4bar internal structure(to match the dance elements) and a B music with a 4bar/bar internal structure. Michael Barraclough Itinerant C17 & C21 Dancing Master & eCeilidh Caller Michael Barraclough e-mail: mab-AT- localhost -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:08:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 11:07:57 -0800 From: Bob Archer Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #840 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3A053F8D.17241.B26BEA8-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT SallenNic-AT- aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/11/00 3:01:56 pm, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > writes: > > >ECD music is not part of the media hype (when is the last time > >you heard ECD music on pop radio?) > > Easy to answer that one! Mike Oldfield made a recording (instrumental) of the > 'Playford' tune "Portsmouth" back in the late seventies which got very high > in the pop charts. And we used to dance to it at Manchester University. I was quite surprised to discover that the rest of the dance world did not consider Portsmouth to be a rant. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 15:51:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rhmoir-AT- email.msn.com Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 23:51:12 +0000 From: Robert & Hazel Moir Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: The Haydn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In response to Phille Callens' enquiry about "The Haydn", the booklet called "The Village Maid" is no longer available. It is a collection of seven dances of eighteenth century origin, edited by Audrey Town and Penny Bradshaw. The dances were interpreted by Charles Soper of Newcastle from a collection of dances by Boucher, published in the 1770's and found in Bedford. It also appears in a collection from Bland and Weller's Music Warehouse c.1800. Some time ago I was invited to lead a dance in Llangollen in North Wales and I included this dance in my programme. When I taught it to the group, they all cried "That's Welsh Quack!" -a dance well known to them (but not to me). However the music was completely different. Some time later I heard that David and Kathryn Wright had researched "Welsh Quack" and further information about that can be obtained from them. Robert Moir ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 18:30:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:03:31 -0500 From: Michael S Franch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: franch-AT- juno.com CC: ccampbell-AT- polkaudio.com, lcarpent-AT- mail.bcpl.net, kcharles-AT- erols.com, andyfolk-AT- aol.com, dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu, wfjc846-AT- prodigy.com, liz-AT- us.net, doyle-AT- home.com, leahdb-AT- earthlink.net, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, eisen1840-AT- aol.com, tantemarion-AT- juno.com, sernst-AT- atscom.net Message-ID: <20001105.214531.-16273.2.franch-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:50:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 00:50:51 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: No Subject To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <59.2754310.2737a0bb-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Mike, Received two messages from you with "no subject" in the subject line, and no message in the message section. Carl ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 05:54:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 09:05:28 -0500 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Haydn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3A06BAA8.C50D88B1-AT- globalnetisp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Robert & Hazel Moir wrote: > In response to Phille Callens' enquiry about "The Haydn", the booklet called > "The Village > Maid" is no longer available. It is a collection of seven dances of > eighteenth century origin, edited by Audrey Town and Penny Bradshaw. The > dances were interpreted by Charles Soper of Newcastle from a collection of > dances by Boucher, published in the 1770's and found in Bedford. It also > appears in a collection from Bland and Weller's Music Warehouse c.1800. > Some time ago I was invited to lead a dance in Llangollen in North Wales and > I included this dance in my programme. When I taught it to the group, they > all cried "That's Welsh Quack!" -a dance well known to them (but not to me). > However the music was completely different. Some time later I heard that > David and Kathryn Wright had researched "Welsh Quack" and further > information about that can be obtained from them. > > Robert Moir Thank you for the information Robert (we met at True Brit last year). I believe that the "chapel revival" in Wales wiped out much of the dance tradition in parts of Wales and many of the current "Welsh" dances are reconstructions from neighboring English Country Dances. I wonder if this is one of them. By the way-having been there-the nearest that I can come to the pronunciation of Llangollen is "thlanguthlen". Hope I am close. Ben Stein dancers-AT- globalnetisp.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 06:38:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 14:38:45 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Test - Please Ignore To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011061438.OAA24765-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Test from Michael Barraclough using new version of VisualMail Michael Barraclough e-mail: mab-AT- localhost -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:01:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:01:06 -0800 From: Bob Archer Subject: Re: transatlantic question To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3A066542.9730.2077B41-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT "Stephen D. Corrsin" wrote: > Following up on some recent messages, I'd be glad to hear some informed > views as to differences in style between "English country dance and > Playford, American style," and "English country dance and Playford, British > style." I've been to what I gather were Ceilidhs in England (I'm no expert > but I gather that is what they were, mostly at Sword Dance festivals' > evening entertainments), but never to anything allegedly or recognizably > "Playford", "country dance" etc. in England. I suspect you already know about my web page on the subject, and I'm sure everyone else here is tired of hearing about it, but for the benefit of those who haven't come across it: http://www.hottub.demon.co.uk/dqcc.htm has some (vaguely) informed opinions. I'm quite happy to discuss questions arising from this. Unless the UK sword dance scene has changed drastically over the past 18 months you would indeed have been to ceilidhs at the sword festivals. There is plenty of Playford stuff around in the UK, but you might need to dig a little to get at it. You might also want to think about subscribing to the English Ceilidh mailing list (send blank e-mail to eceilidh- join-AT- netservs.com), although be warned that they tend to have a very narrow focus on EC, and might not be the best place to get discussion of the differences. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:02:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:01:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "folk", ECD, and famous (commercial?) musicians To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, Andrew Peterson wrote: > John Denver is considered "Folk" if only because of the beginnings of > his national exposure as the replacement for Chad Mitchell in the > Mitchell Trio. I saw him with the Mitchell Trio in 1968 in one of > their last concerts before breaking up and the concert included a > banjo player by the name of Paul Prestopino playing back-up. Paul, who > was on the last Mitchell Trio albums as well as some of John Denver's > early albums, is now to be found in New Jersey playing for dances > (including ECD) with Hold the Mustard. a few years after i started playing in the princeton pick-up band with paul prestopino & others, and dancing ECD to callers including gene murrow, i took another look at some of the LPs that i had grown up listening to & that were still on my parents' record shelf. there, on judy collins' "whales and nightingales", were *both* paul and gene. what a small world! paul's complete discography, if he's kept track, would make very interesting reading. (he also plays mandolin, banjo, bass, harmonica, and recorder, by the way. i wish someone would hand him a lute; at the last english dance we played, i could have sworn there were renaissance divisions coming out of the mandolin.) if you see peter, paul, and mary in concert (live or televised), try to get a glimpse of the backup band. anyone who's danced to hold the mustard will recognize the guitarist in the overalls... susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:34:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 22:34:52 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "folk", ECD, and famous (commercial?) musicians To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001107063452.21922.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- "Susan R. Lorand" wrote: > a few years after i started playing in the princeton pick-up > band with paul prestopino & others, and dancing ECD to callers > including gene murrow, i took another look at some of the LPs > that i had grown up listening to & that were still on my > parents' record shelf. there, on judy collins' "whales and > nightingales", were *both* paul and gene. what a small world! > <> I hadn't noticed Paul, but I knew about Gene Murrow being on that album. The song titled "Gene's Song" is actually "The Beggar Boy" and as I recall Gene telling it, he didn't even know they had recorded it until the album came out. He probably would have given them the proper title to it if they had asked and maybe told them that it is an ECD tune. A great opportunity for ECD publicity was missed. Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 00:31:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:34:24 -0600 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Test - Please Ignore To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <026001c04895$756bcd20$efe0490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1256 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200011061438.OAA24765-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> My computer tries to download a program off this email. what's up? Dianna Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive Houston, TX 77019-3908 Scottish Country Dancing and More web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Barraclough" To: Sent: Monday, November 06, 2000 8:38 AM Subject: Test - Please Ignore > Test from Michael Barraclough using new version of VisualMail > Michael Barraclough > e-mail: mab-AT- localhost > > > -- > Do you VisualMail? > > Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! > > http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:53:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:53:39 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Finnish Dance Workshop To: =?UNKNOWN?Q?ECD=A0list?= Message-ID: <20001107095339.27064.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For anyone who might be interested, this came from the Scand-AT- eGroups.com e-mail list. Note that one of the dances is "Engelska (country dance)". There actually are a number of dances named "Engelska" that I have run across. SKANDIA WESTSIDE LOS ANGELES Saturday, Nov 18, 2000 Lindberg Park Hall Rhoda & Virginia Ave, Culver City (westside of Los Angeles) Directions: Near 405 and 10 Freeways. Fwy 405: Exit Jefferson, east to Overland, L or N to Virginia (signal), L or W to the park. Fwy 10: Exit Overland, south (2 mi) to Virginia (signal), R or W to the park. Afternoon Workshop 3:30 - 5:30 PM $6:00 Petri Kauppinen and Milla Korja, dance instructors from Finland, will teach: Quadrille fr. Carelian Engelska (country dance) Finnish Polska variations (Break for dinner together) Evening Dance Party 7:30-11:00 PM $9:00 Dance Music by Kriss Larson's Gammaldans Band EXTRA: A Concert of songs and dances from Finland For more info: 310/827-3618 or fsotcher-AT- aol.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:00:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:00:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Berger Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "folk", ECD, and famous (commercial?) musicians To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 6 Nov 2000, Susan R. Lorand wrote: > a few years after i started playing in the princeton pick-up band with > paul prestopino & others, and dancing ECD to callers including gene > murrow, i took another look at some of the LPs that i had grown up > listening to & that were still on my parents' record shelf. there, on > judy collins' "whales and nightingales", were *both* paul and gene. I'm not sure which Judy Collins album it was -- might have been that one -- but on one of them, there was an instrumental track entitled "Somebody's Tune" (with an actual name substituted for "Somebody"), which was in fact the tune we know as "Beggar Boy." Was the "Somebody" perhaps one of these guys? ------------------------------- Jon Berger Personal: jberger-AT- monitor.net Business: jon-AT- perforce.com http://www.monitor.net/~jberger ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:51:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:51:21 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Looking forward... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susie, Do you know by any chance if the dates for the three Bare Necessities dances around the beginning of December are fixed for 2001 yet? And if so, does the Princeton area one on Friday fall on Nov. 30, or is it the following week? I have been asked to do another gig for the Jane Austen Society on Dec. 2, 2001 and I'd like to know if that conflicts with the BN weekend or not. Maybe I'll see you at this year's gig? Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 08:54:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:54:45 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking forward... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry about this going to the list; I _know_ I selected the reply to go only to Susie, so I don't know how this got here, Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:53:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:53:43 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Test - Please Ignore To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001107185343.29396.qmail-AT- web3302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Dianna Shipman wrote: > My computer tries to download a program off this email. > what's up? > Dianna > There is a web-site on the ad at the bottom line of that posting. Maybe your system is automatically going to that web-site and trying to download the program for that mail system. (I erased all but your message so it doesn't try to do it again.) Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:01:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 19:00:05 +0000 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Where in the World? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3A085136.6885-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <3.0.6.32.20001102160148.007d9d00-AT- oz.net> Some years ago I picked up a book that was given to a friend of mine in the States entitled "The History of Jazz Dance (?)" by the Sterns. There was a fascinating section in there on the quadrille dances being done in the West Indies by the slaves. Also it was noted that the Rigadoon was being done by slaves at Balls in New Orleans with their owners. A book worth reading if you can find it. Graham Knight ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:25:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:25:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking forward... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > Susie, > Do you know by any chance if the dates for the three Bare Necessities > dances around the beginning of December are fixed for 2001 yet? And if > so, does the Princeton area one on Friday fall on Nov. 30, or is it the > following week? perhaps other on the list are looking ahead as well. to the best of my knowledge (after consultation with a representative of GCD) the dates for next year's bare necessities tour of the mid-atlantic will be fri., nov. 30, 2001: princeton, NJ area (exact location TBA) dance sponsored by LCD sat., dec. 1, 2001: philadelphia area - GCD "predominantly playford" ball sun., dec. 2, 2001: new york city - cd*ny yuletide cotillion - susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:49:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 00:50:33 +0000 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emily - I will. I am waiting until the end of next week and I will then batch up all the replies and forward on. Michael -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Emily L. Ferguson Sent: 02 November 2000 21:22 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: Pyewackett While you're asking Rosie, ask her to put all the rest of the records out on CD, and keep them out there. My turntable died and I don't really like tapes. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 20:37:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:59:28 -0600 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Change of mailing address To: For Your Information Message-ID: <010f01c04938$9fca37c0$8de0490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT If you send me "snail mail" please note my change of address from: 1436 W. Gray, #134, Houston, Texas 77019 to: 1302 Waugh Drive, PMB 134, Houston,TX 77019-3908. If you've received this email in error, my apologies - it's a one-time only message. Dianna Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive Houston, TX 77019-3908 Scottish Country Dancing and More web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 23:51:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 11:51:21 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Subject: Looking forward... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susie, Do you know by any chance if the dates for the three Bare Necessities dances around the beginning of December are fixed for 2001 yet? And if so, does the Princeton area one on Friday fall on Nov. 30, or is it the following week? I have been asked to do another gig for the Jane Austen Society on Dec. 2, 2001 and I'd like to know if that conflicts with the BN weekend or not. Maybe I'll see you at this year's gig? Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:00:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 08:00:09 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Andersen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special Dance Event--Roodman To: ECD List Message-ID: <20001108160009.1177.qmail-AT- web5203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Experienced English Country Dancers are invited to sign up for a special dance party/musicians rehearsal for a forthcoming CD of music for dances of Gary Roodman. The event, scheduled for Friday, 22 December 2000, from 7:30-11:00pm, is sponsored by Country Dancers of Westchester, White Plains, NY, and features two outstanding bands: MGM (Mary Lea, Gene Murrow, and Margaret Ann Martin) and Reunion (Jonathan Jensen, Barbara Greenberg, and Dan Beerbohm). Registration must be limited to 60 experienced dancers. If you'd like to attend, please complete the form below and send it with check payable to 'Country Dancers of Westchester' for $15.00 per person to: Jane Dubin 3 Chateaux Circle Apt. H Scarsdale, NY 10583 Registration will be confirmed after 22 November. In case of over-subscription, members of CDW have preference, and a waiting list will be maintained. Please include a self-addressed, stamped business-size envelope with your application. A list of dances and other information will be sent on or about the confirmation date. All proceeds in excess of expenses for the dance will go toward production of the CD. For more information, contact Susan Murrow at (914)762-8619 or to her e-mail address, 75272.730-AT- compuserve.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Special Dance Event: Gary Roodman - His Dances NAME(S) _____________________________________________________ ADDRESS _____________________________________________________ _____________________________________________________ E-MAIL: _____________________________________________ PHONE:___________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:31:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:31:40 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Elm City Ball Program To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001108193140.6028.qmail-AT- web1608.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is the not entirely complete program for the upcoming Elm City Ball. Two or three dances are still under negotiation (and will be posted on web site when available http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html), but goodness, if this isn't enough to convince you that it's going to be a terrific ball, those few dances aren't going to make a difference. Ashford Anniversary Corelli's Maggot Female Sayler Gigue for Genny Hambleton's Round O Hit & Miss In the Bleak Midwinter Jacob Hall's Jig Maid Peep'd Out the Window Mr. Beveridge's Maggot Never Love Thee More News From Tripoly The Pursuit Room For Ramblers St. Margaret's Hill Sun Assembly Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:41:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 11:43:04 -0800 From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Science Library" Subject: Call for Lippincott Award Announcements To: Rendance , ECD , Feuillet Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3A09ACC8.3BC0AFFC-AT- citrus.ucr.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Society of Dance History Scholars is proud to announce the fifth GERTRUDE LIPPINCOTT AWARD 2000 Gertrude Lippincott Award Open to members and non-members of SDHS The Society of Dance History Scholars invites submissions and nominations for the fifth annual Gertrude Lippincott Award for the best English language article on dance history or theory published in 2000. The award is named after its donor, Gertrude Lippincott. It was established to recognize excellence in the field of dance scholarship. The $500 award and a certificate will be presented to the winning author at the Society's annual conference in June 2001 at Goucher College in Towson, Maryland. Dance history and theory are broadly defined. Nominations may include the history, theory, and analysis of any genre of dance from any methodological perspective. Authors may submit their own essays. Nominations also may be made by editors, publishers, and members of SDHS (only one entry per nominator or author, please). To enter the competition, send four copies of the published article and a cover letter with the name, address, phone number, and email (if available) of the author to Amy Koritz; Chair, Gertrude Lippincott Award; English Department, Tulane University; New Orleans, LA 70118-5698. Members of the Editorial Board and the Board of Directors of SDHS are not eligible. Written inquiries may be addressed to Amy Koritz or sent via email to: akoritz-AT- mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu No fax or email submissions will be accepted. All nominations must be received by January 31, 2001. The Society of Dance History Scholars is a constituent member of the American Council of Learned Societies ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 08:04:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:04:31 -0600 (CST) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Christmas Ball, 12/16 in Urbana, IL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011091604.eA9G4Va26258-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Central Illinois English Country Dancers Present An E N G L I S H C O U N T R Y D A N C E C H R I S T M A S B A L L The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their sixth annual Christmas Ball on Saturday, December 16, 2000. The dance will be held at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus of the University of Illinois. There will be a warm up session from 7:00 to 8:00 with a review of the basics of English country dance as well as some of the evening's dances. The Ball will follow from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Fans and finery are encouraged. Bring fruit or a dessert to share. There is a $5.00 suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball. We ask that dancers wear soft soled shoes to help protect the dance floor and avoid using excessive amounts of perfume for the benefit of others that may experience allergic reactions. All dances will be taught and all lovers of English country dance and music are welcome. Dances Lead By: Susan Burt, Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort Warm Up Session: 7:00 p.m. Christmas Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Date: Saturday, December 16, 2000 Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL Suggested Donation: $5.00 There will be refreshments and a mummers' play at the break and a dessert party following the dance. For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu) at 217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708. You can check the Christmas Ball website at http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/xmas.html For those who are interested, the Urbana Country Dancers will be holding a contra dance on Friday, December 15, from 8 to 11 p.m. at the Phillip's Recreation Center, 505 W. Stoughton, Urbana. Deborah Hyland from St. Louis will be calling and the band will be The Prairie Dogs. Central Illinois English Country Dancers is affiliated with the Champaign Park District and a member of the Champaign County Cultural Consortium. If we don't see you at the Ball, Then 'Happy Hols' to one and all! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:46:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Got Chimes of Dunkirk instructions? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JWCF8IFS8Y9ANII2-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECDers -- If one of you happens to have the instructions for "Chimes of Dunkirk/Dunkerque" handy, could you email or post them? (Since I have seen an 1865 publication of the dance, I'm sure it's out of copyright.) I seem to have left the relevant books at home, and I'm at work, and need to print out the stuff for the Victorian ball (Saturday in Eureka) before I go home. Thanks! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:23:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 01:20:50 -0500 From: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Chimes of Dunkirk instructions To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200011100123_MC2-BA60-117D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan -- Here are instructions for "Chimes of Dunkirk" from the New England Dancing Masters' book... Formation: Longways for 6-10 couples A (16) All forward and back. (8) Right hand around partner. (8) B1 (16) All claphands 3 times with music. (4) All stamp one foot 3 times w/music (4) Two hand turn around partner. (8) B2 (16) Clapping (4) and stamping (4) as before. First couple take 2 hands across and sashay to the bottom of the set. Everyone else move up one place, while top couple sashays. (8) Repeat the dance with the new top couple. I hope this is what you wanted! It is attributed to Dudley Laufman, "who learned it from a friend in the 1960s and adapted the original French circle dance into a longways set." All good wishes from Susan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 05:32:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:27:06 -0700 From: William R DeRagon Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dance floor capacity To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001110.062707.-2031465.0.wderagon-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lately, I have been looking at halls at which to hold a special ECD event. Aside from geographic, logistic and aesthetic considerations, sufficient capacity to accommodate the dancers is, of course, crucial. Has anyone derived a formula to estimate the number of dancers a room can comfortably accommodate given its length & width? William DeRagon Albuquerque, NM ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:35:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:35:37 -0600 (CST) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dance floor capacity To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011101635.eAAGZbg24128-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT William R DeRagon writes: > > Lately, I have been looking at halls at which to hold a special ECD > event. Aside from geographic, logistic and aesthetic considerations, > sufficient capacity to accommodate the dancers is, of course, crucial. > Has anyone derived a formula to estimate the number of dancers a room can > comfortably accommodate given its length & width? Obviously it depends on your definition of "comfortably". I haven't made a real study of it, but a rule of thumb I've used in the past which seems OK is that you need around 12' of width for a longways set and a 16' square area for a square. This includes the space behind the dancers, between the sets. It's possible to squeeze this some and use less space and some dances may take more space (and some dancers if they are wearing costumes). Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:36:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NOMAD This weekend To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001110163641.23274.qmail-AT- web1609.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I realize that I have been remiss in making my usual announcement about the NOMAD festival in a timely way, but here it is. NOMAD will be happening THIS WEEKEND (starting tonight with a contra dance), at the usual time and place in Newtown High School, and once again there are 10 HOURS of English Dance scheduled throughout the weekend, including many of our regular suspects, such as Robin Hayden, Mary Jones, Peggy Vermilya, Rich Galloway, Fried Herman, and more. More information on the festival can be gotten at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8797/index.html See some of you there. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:53:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:52:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Margherita Davis Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dance floor capacity To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We have been using a formula of 20 square feet per dancer, and it seems to work well. Margherita Davis >From: William R DeRagon >Reply-To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Subject: Dance floor capacity >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:27:06 -0700 > >Lately, I have been looking at halls at which to hold a special ECD >event. Aside from geographic, logistic and aesthetic considerations, >sufficient capacity to accommodate the dancers is, of course, crucial. >Has anyone derived a formula to estimate the number of dancers a room can >comfortably accommodate given its length & width? > >William DeRagon >Albuquerque, NM _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:40:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:42:26 -0500 From: "Susan B. Booker" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Middle School Dance Instruction - Ideas?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001b01c04b3d$98e1d880$6603ffd1-AT- prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have agreed to teach some English country dances to a large group of middle schoolers as part of their humanities curriculum. The setting will be the gym; the kids, 6th, 7th and 8th graders - will number an incredible 80-90! I will be able to use both CDs and cassettes, and teachers will be present (but are not experienced dancers). The 8th graders are presently studying American colonial history, which is a nice coincidence. The humanities teacher has a little folk dance experience, but just a little, and no ECD. She was totally unaware of Berea's Christmas School or other activities, which take place 35 miles away... My recorded resources are somewhat limited, although I may be able to borrow some things from my local group. I have the three new Bare Necessities CDs (plus their earlier works), _The Playford Ball_, and some of the Sharp country dance book series. My main concern is not materials, but numbers of kids...any ideas about handling them? We have room for at least three longways sets, and there is a stage at the end of the gym - I may need to use a mike, since it's echo-y and this will happen last hour on a Friday. I'm thinking of wearing a colonial era costume just to help catch their attention - I know some of these kids, as I volunteer in the school library a couple of afternoons each week, but some will be new to me. Does this seem like a good idea?The 8th graders are having a "colonial day" just before Thanksgiving, when they will all wear costumes. If I had my preference, I'd be teaching just these kids - and those who are really interested - with the idea that they could do a demo for the rest of the school but this idea didn't fly with the teachers, alas. And I will be out of town for the colonial day... I have worked with children before, teaching singing games and playparty games in elementary school, and have done demonstrations for the same age group, but working alone with this large a group of this age is new for me. Any suggestions? Middle schoolers are full of energy, enthusiastic but sometimes afraid to be un-cool, and easily distracted. Peer pressure is overwhelming. Not an easy gig - but possibly an extremely rewarding one. Suggestions of material and methods of teaching are most welcome! Thanks- Susan Booker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:41:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:40:49 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Middle School Dance Instruction - Ideas?? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JWDELOKN6Q9AR36J-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECDers -- Susan Booker asked for ideas on teaching kids, and mentioned that she might be wearing a colonial costume. I think a useful book might be C. C. Hendrickson's _Colonial Social Dancing For Children: Social Dancing of Washington's Time Arranged for Today's Young People_ - The Hendrickson Group, Sandy Hook Connecticut, 1995. I got my copy from the Country Dance & Song Society, www.cdss.org/sales I haven't actually taught kids using this book, but it looked pretty good to me. Anyway, Susan, good luck! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:46:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:45:57 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Dance floor capacity To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JWDES6JSJC9AR36J-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT William DeRagon wrote: Lately, I have been looking at halls at which to hold a special ECD event. Aside from geographic, logistic and aesthetic considerations, sufficient capacity to accommodate the dancers is, of course, crucial. Has anyone derived a formula to estimate the number of dancers a room can comfortably accommodate given its length & width? I like to allow 30 square feet per dancer, if I have a choice. (I once was involved with a dance in a 2700sqft hotel ballroom with 103 people, and there was just not enough room. The band space was included in the 2700, and even with the refreshments outside, it was a sad crush.) Other considerations: If you're having a lot of waltzes or other couple dances, you might prefer a square room to a long narrow one. Sometimes it's worth your while to set the sets across the short rather than the long axis of the room - we did this for the BACDS Playford Ball this year. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:31:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:31:23 -0600 (CST) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Middle School Dance Instruction - Ideas?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200011101931.eAAJVNj11768-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susan B. Booker writes: > > I have agreed to teach some English country dances to a large group of > middle schoolers as part of their humanities curriculum. The setting will be > the gym; the kids, 6th, 7th and 8th graders - will number an incredible > 80-90! I will be able to use both CDs and cassettes, and teachers will be > present (but are not experienced dancers). The 8th graders are presently > studying American colonial history, which is a nice coincidence. The > humanities teacher has a little folk dance experience, but just a little, > and no ECD. She was totally unaware of Berea's Christmas School or other > activities, which take place 35 miles away... > > My recorded resources are somewhat limited, although I may be able to borrow > some things from my local group. I have the three new Bare Necessities CDs > (plus their earlier works), _The Playford Ball_, and some of the Sharp > country dance book series. My main concern is not materials, but numbers of > kids...any ideas about handling them? We have room for at least three > longways sets, and there is a stage at the end of the gym - I may need to > use a mike, since it's echo-y and this will happen last hour on a Friday. > > I'm thinking of wearing a colonial era costume just to help catch their > attention - I know some of these kids, as I volunteer in the school library > a couple of afternoons each week, but some will be new to me. Does this seem > like a good idea?The 8th graders are having a "colonial day" just before > Thanksgiving, when they will all wear costumes. If I had my preference, I'd > be teaching just these kids - and those who are really interested - with the > idea that they could do a demo for the rest of the school but this idea > didn't fly with the teachers, alas. And I will be out of town for the > colonial day... > > I have worked with children before, teaching singing games and playparty > games in elementary school, and have done demonstrations for the same age > group, but working alone with this large a group of this age is new for me. > Any suggestions? Middle schoolers are full of energy, enthusiastic but > sometimes afraid to be un-cool, and easily distracted. Peer pressure is > overwhelming. Not an easy gig - but possibly an extremely rewarding one. > > Suggestions of material and methods of teaching are most welcome! I would suggest sticking with proper dances where it doesn't matter who your partner is, that is you don't have figures where the women do one thing and the men do another and so it matters that the women are in one line and the men in another. If you don't have this concern then the kids don't have to pair up boys and girls. If it was only the older kids, or those who were particularly interested this might not be a problem, but I've found that trying to get kids to pair up can be difficult and you end up wasting time you could be using teaching dances. It's better to allow them to get a friend as a partner and not worry about who is in which line. Longways-whole-set dances such as Galopede and Cumberland Reel work well. You can also do simple duple minor dances if you keep the progression simple. I like to use dances where the couples pass by and automagically meet their next neighbors. I try to stick to dances that use figures that are pretty much explained by their names; circles, stars, hand-turns (left, right, two-), back-to-back and lines (forward and back and down the hall). Ones that I like are Jefferson's Reel and the version of Haste To The Wedding in the Amidon book. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:52:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:53:40 +0000 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Middle School Dance Instruction - Ideas?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susan B. Booker wrote >I'm thinking of wearing a colonial era costume just to help catch their attention >Middle schoolers are full of energy, enthusiastic but sometimes afraid to be un-cool colonial-era costume = un-cool? Michael Barraclough ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:23:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:23:30 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Middle School Dance Instruction - Ideas?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susan, You didn't say how much lead time you had to collect material -- that could be a significant factor, particularly if you have to find recordings to work with. My thoughts on the subject, related to recent activity in teaching groups of folks new to English Country Dancing and similar forms, but not addressing that age group: 1) Disorientation was the biggest problem I had at first. Confusing progressions, turns single, and gender imbalance seemed to be the most conspicuous culprits. 2) Lists of English Country Dances for beginning dancers, weddings, children, etc. are often predominantly drawn from the so-called "traditional" dances, i.e. dances like those in the Community Dance Manual. While these dances may be appropriate enough in many cases, they form a rather special and limited group and don't really represent either the bulk of ECD as it is mostly known at least in the US, or the colonial era in the US. 3) There are _many_ very approachable, simple longways duple minor dances from the "historical" period of ECD (roughly 1651-1830) which seem to me to be appropriate for beginners. General suggestions: If you opt to avoid m/f pairing, finding dances in which orientation is easily established without reference to the customary gender roles should help. By sticking mostly to one form, especeially longways duple minor, the idea of progression can be established early with simple dances and then exploited throughout the rest of the ssession. Trying to present the variety of form which is one of the intriguing aspects of ECD is probably more confusing than intriguing at this point. Criteria I have found useful for selecting good duple-minor longways (dml) dances for beginners are: a) All figures before the progression should leave dancers back in their home places. b) Dances with a single repetition are good because they teach more quickly -- e.g. first couple do something, then second couple do the equivalent, etc. But too much repetition can be confusing, e.g first corners turn right hand once and a half, partners turn left hand once & a half on the side, second corners turn once and a half, neighbors turn once and a half on the side (the beginning of "Bonecrusher" by Fried Herman is like this) is hard for newer dancers to keep track of (& it violates the rule of returning home after each figure). But the beginning of "Good Man of Ballangigh" doesn't seem too bad in this respect. c) The progression should come near the end, in such a way that it is easy for folks to identify who they will dance with next. If the progression isn't the last figure, then only figures with partner, not the whole minor set, should follow the progression, e. g. a final two-hand turn with partner. d) Figures which require rapid execution in order to finish in the right place on time, especially in the progression, should be avoided at least until they have done the figure at a sloewr pace and have shown mastery of it -- e.g. 3 changes of a circular hey in 6 steps or even 8 steps