Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:59:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:35:09 -0400 From: "L. Russell Herman, Jr." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: On topicness To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Okay, fine, I will. Remember last year, about this time, when all the >calendar pedants started going on and on and on about how the millenium >ACTUALLY started in 2001? > >Okay, people, here we are approaching the ACTUAL start of an ACTUAL new >millenium. If anyone happens to be holding an evening of ECD where, at the >momentous moment, they'll be dancing Sellenger's Round (aka The Beginning of >the World) I'll be there, be it never so far. Moreover, I'll bring baked >goods. Heck, give me enough forewarning and a reasonable kitchen and I'll >make breakfast after the dance. > >Nilos, who didn't dance last New Years Eve, but had a pretty good time anyway Nilos (and the list), Sun Assembly's New Year's Eve dance in Durham, North Carolina, always ends with Sellenger's Round at midnight. A delightful crowd, diverse in age, gender, orientation, dress style, and who knows what else. Great floor. Relaxed, friendly atmosphere. Gender-neutral calling by the legendary Allan Troxler this year. Band led by the brilliant Celia Wright on piano. Homemade goodies at the break. It'd be great to have you with us this year. -- Russell ------------------------------------------------------------------- Russell Herman Raleigh, North Carolina, USA rherman-AT- igc.org ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:03:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:05:20 -0700 From: Bob Archer Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39D78AF0.24973.2055F19-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Patricia Ruggiero wrote: > My experiences at Pinewoods English week have been of that nature -- good > English dancers who are also good (and usually former) contradancers but who > don't attend English/American week because they don't want to do > contradancing all week or be with a large contingent of die-hard > contradancers. I've only been to E/A week once, so my experience may not be typical, but I wouldn't recognise it from this description. E/A week in 1999 had a wonderful mixture of contras, squares, playford, traditional english, ceilidh and contemporary english dance. We didn't do contras all week, and I certainly wouldn't describe the attendees as "die-hard contradancers" - they were definitely die- hard dancers, but were happy and enthusiastic no matter what dance was called. I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further apart and leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one of the casualties of this gap is contras done with some control, there are a whole host of other dances that fall into the gap. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:21:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:23:50 -0700 From: Bob Archer Subject: Sir Roger de Coverley To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39D78F46.22551.2164D7E-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I know we're not due to have the annual Roger de Coverley discussion for a while yet, but if I don't post this now I'll have lost it by the time it comes round again. Apologies if anyone's posted this before. It's a quote from "Tom Brown's Schooldays" by Thomas Hughes, publish in 1857 and refers to a man preparing for a fight: "He takes off his long-flapped coat, and stands up in a long-flapped waistcoat, which Sir Roger de Coverley might have worn when it was new..." Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:32:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:32:08 -0700 From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Science Library" Subject: Hello to the list from Lizbeth Langston To: ECD Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39D8C698.D8445C59-AT- citrus.ucr.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, I'm rejoining the ECD list after a long absence. Here's a little bit about me: By avocation I am a dance historian specializing in 16th and early 17th century dance and literature. I hold a Master's degree in Dance History and a Ph.D. in Comparative Literature (with an interdisciplinary emphasis in dance), both from the University of California, Riverside. I currently work as a reference librarian at UC Riverside. I'm an active vintage and contra dancer, and even do a little bit of ECD in the LA area. My research interests include sixteenth and seventeenth-century dance and theater, generally. Several years ago I founded Danzando, a Southern California-based research and performing group, which focuses primarily on Renaissance dance. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:15:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:29:33 -0800 From: sbecd Subject: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39D93679.3097647D-AT- geocities.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JUMRWY01BI8YJ6PP-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Good day all. an aquaintance of mine, who teaches early music, is planning to give the class a hands-on experience and have them dance an early ECD. for reasons that escape me (possibly because the textbook mentions this dance by name?) the dance of choice is Kemps Jegg. It is found in Playford's first edition. But, since the description by Playford makes very little sense, my friend asked for my help at interpreting it. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, I was wondering if anyone has seen (or maybe done him/herself) a modern interpretation/transcription of this dance. Any help, either via the mailing list or privately to sbecd-AT- geocities.com, will be greatly appreciated. Giovanni De Amici ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:02:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:31:24 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: On-topicness, only slightly more off To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001002.213203.-7139.0.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:02:18 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson" writes: > Cecil Sharp's Birthday. (December 12) > > Saint Cecelia's birthday, also Also the shared birthdays of Jane Austen and Beethoven. I refuse to think that this is mere mathematical probability. Allison Thompson > Emily L. Ferguson > elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 > New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography > Beetle cats on the web at: > http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm > http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html > landscape at: > http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html > > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:56:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:56:18 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: On-topicness, only slightly more off To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I thought Sharp was born on St. Cecelia's day - November 22. I thought that was why he was named Cecil. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:09:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:08:42 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: No contras, etc. To: English Dance Message-ID: <000701c02ce7$3c0d5c70$27981c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob Archer wrote: "I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further apart and leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one of the casualties of this gap is contras done with some control, there are a whole host of other dances that fall into the gap." Cause and effect can be reversed here. Lack of control is one reason many folks abandon their local contradance. As for your experience at E/A week, all I can say is that attendance at E/A week varies, just as it does the other weeks, depending on the specific program and the staff. Perceptions also vary. Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:09:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:08:48 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000901c02ce7$3fcb75e0$27981c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear, so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions..... Helpfully, Pat -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of sbecd Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 9:30 PM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: kemps jegg ?? Good day all. an aquaintance of mine, who teaches early music, is planning to give the class a hands-on experience and have them dance an early ECD. for reasons that escape me (possibly because the textbook mentions this dance by name?) the dance of choice is Kemps Jegg. It is found in Playford's first edition. But, since the description by Playford makes very little sense, my friend asked for my help at interpreting it. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, I was wondering if anyone has seen (or maybe done him/herself) a modern interpretation/transcription of this dance. Any help, either via the mailing list or privately to sbecd-AT- geocities.com, will be greatly appreciated. Giovanni De Amici ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:57:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:57:18 -0500 From: Roger Diggle Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010030357.WAA01332-AT- kang.svc.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob Archer wrote: >I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance >scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further >apart and leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one >of the casualties of this gap is contras done with some control, >there are a whole host of other dances that fall into the gap. For those who don't know me, I'm an active contra/square caller and choreographer, but also a lover of ECD. Some observations, hopefully made with a dispassionate eye, but not without passion: Among prejudiced contra dancers, English dancing is generally dismissed with a shrug. Among prejudiced English dancers, contra dancing is generally dismissed with disdain. English is boring; contra is unruly. I think that both camps are mistaken in the ease of their dismissals, though I have had experiences that could lead me to agree with either. I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly unruly. I also believe that it's possible to have lively contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the difficulty can be traced to poor leadership. (I can go on about this, and sometimes do.) For instance, there is a sad-but-widely-held belief among contra dancers that dances which have no swinging are boring. Many contra dance leaders abet that belief by failing to identify and present fine contra dances which do without. I believe that this is an important element of the "gap". Many contra callers call almost no dances that are more than 15 years old. Almost none call any triple minors. Ten years ago, during a break at a Chicago area dance wekend, some musicians began playing Chorus Jig. The dance wordlessly assembled itself and flew. The musicians responded by challenging the dancers with Petronella. The dance again assembled and whirred. They moved on to Hull's Victory and Rory O'More. I don't know about other locales, but I don't believe that could happen in the unwashed Midwest any more. Few contra dancers, or leaders, for that matter, have a sense of the genesis of the dancing they love. English dancing is more difficult to present well. And when it isn't, it can be pretty boring. In most places that I wander, the English dance series are distinctly "grayer" than are the contra dance series. I wonder whether English dancing might not be approaching a tipping point in this regard... does the average age of the average English dance group discourage participation by young dancers? In my experience, beginners are more likely to find themselves feeling embarrassed at an English dance than a contra dance -- though, heaven knows, it can happen at either. Tribalism is everywhere... why not here? Roger Diggle ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:16:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:22:36 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01c02cf1$8f1173c0$c4eaadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Roger Diggle asks: >>does the average age of the average English dance group discourage participation by young dancers? << That brings up something I've been curious about -- in the CDSS-affiliated dances I've been to, the average age seems fairly high. Is that the norm? Marian Phillips ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:24:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:27:13 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009a01c02d02$f8c63e20$5a98adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01c02cf1$8f1173c0$c4eaadce-AT- default> Roger Diggle asks: >>does the average age of the average English dance group discourage participation by young dancers? << <> Not sure what you mean by "fairly high", but I'd say the average age of folks in the St. Louis ECD group is perhaps 5 years higher than that of the local contra group. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:34:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:37:02 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <00a101c02d04$57f3f9e0$5a98adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010030357.WAA01332-AT- kang.svc.tds.net> Roger Diggle said: <> I think Roger is correct, and I mourn the disappearance of that sense of rootedness. It's worth noting, too, that those dancers almost certainly could not assemble and do *any* dance without a caller, including the modern classics, because the culture no longer includes memorizing dances. Very experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the dances by heart. <> Also true in my observation. <> Sigh...watching what's going on in the middle east at the moment, I want to yell "BECAUSE IT KILLS PEOPLE, THAT'S WHY NOT!" Peace. If possible. Paul (contra dancer, ECD musician, like traditional squares too) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:33:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:33:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Paul Stamler wrote: > Not sure what you mean by "fairly high", but I'd say the average age of > folks in the St. Louis ECD group is perhaps 5 years higher than that of the > local contra group. Maybe that's how long it takes them to get wisdom (;-^) Eric (sorry, couldn't resist!) Arnold > > Peace. > Paul > > > > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:54:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:53:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Paul Stamler wrote: > Roger Diggle said: > > < years old. Almost none call any triple minors. [snip] ...to which Paul appended [more snip] ... Very > experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before > being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the > dances by heart. One problem, clearly attributed to leadership, is the frequent failure to announce the title of the dance at contradances. At a weekend of mixed English Country and contra dancing in Ann Arbor just over, the up-and-coming young caller of both ECD and contra from Columbus, OH, Joseph Pimentel, who clearly has a natural aptitude for the role and who usually gives credit where it is due, called a triple minor contra which was new to me, and while he said it was a "traditional" dance which had been modified to get some swings in (!), he didn't give the name until I asked, which was just before he was about to tell the band to start. (It was "The Fly" as I recall.) The figures seemed a bit dorky in the walkthrough, but as we began to get the shape of it and learned how to get the most out of it, it was actually great fun, and a wonderful addition to the program. I do wonder about his source, and what the shape was before the interpolated swings... Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 07:20:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:20:56 -0400 From: Marge Cramton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001003101957.00aeb240-AT- mailhub.logiclink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I bet he'd tell you if you asked him! (although it's probably too late today for a few days...) At 09:53 AM 10/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >I do wonder about his source, and what the shape was before the >interpolated swings... > >Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 07:50:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:49:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: opportunity knocks! To: ecd-digest-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT R.Diggle [I think I have that right] said: "Among prejudiced contra dancers, English dancing is generally dismissed with a shrug. Among prejudiced English dancers, contra dancing is generally dismissed with disdain. English is boring; contra is unruly." **** I see this as a wonderful opportunity for cross fertilization, in fact: it's time to develop a style which is *BOTH* boring and unruly! What a grand possibility; ranks right up, or down, there with "world's worst contra [or English] dance" competitions I recall at Pinewoods. So the next time you have a chance, why not aim for this glorious goal? Arise, ye prisoners of something-or-other! Steve Corrsin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:59:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:54:55 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: opportunity knocks To: ECD-DIGEST-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <00100311545582-AT- tedcrane.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Steve (et al)... >I see this as a wonderful opportunity for cross fertilization, in fact: it's >time to develop a style which is *BOTH* boring and unruly! What a grand >possibility; Sounds like rowdy English/ceilidh dancing to me! Something I've often thought would possibly appeal to both - or neither - groups of American dancers. >So the next time you have a chance, why not aim for this glorious goal? Ok you Yanks! Get hopping! Pamela (ranting in Ithaca, NY) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:25:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:27:52 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <004301c02d56$e348a480$7e98adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Arnold To: Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] ... Very > experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before > being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the > dances by heart. <> I don't think that's the issue. At our local dance, at least, callers almost always announce the name of the dance. It's more a problem that the idea of dancing something without a caller and a walkthrough simply isn't part of the culture, and hasn't been for a very long time. Vis-a-vis the age question, by the way, we've begun to see some folks from the contra group coming to English because their bodies have problems with the vigor of contra. At least, that's their stated reason. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:58:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:58:29 -0500 From: Roger Diggle Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: less on traditions in dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010031858.NAA27230-AT- kang.svc.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andrew Peterson wrote: --- Benjamin Stein wrote: >...finally gave up contra dancing when I had my glasses >knocked of twice in an evening by flying elbows. I nearly got my nose broken by a flying elbow at NEFFA in 1999... during Lisa Greenleaf's "Contra Dance Safely" session. Roger Diggle ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:47:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:46:46 -0700 From: South Bay English Country Dance Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001003194646.00923fe0-AT- pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Good day Pat. yes, the directions about kissing are easy to follow. a little less easy is: "First man lead the W as before: Turn half round, holding both hands, and his own as much to the other, turn the third W" does this describe a circle 1/2 around for 3 people, followed by a 2-hand turn for M1 and W3? and: "First man take the W as before by the contrary hands behind, then lead them forward and back" whose hand(s) are contrary? and behind what? Just the two more obscure points. Still puzzled, Giovanni At 11:08 PM 10/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear, >so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions..... > >Helpfully, >Pat Giovanni De Amici check out SBECD web page at www.geocities.com/sbecd ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:20:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:19:56 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000601c02d77$4c2d9df0$29981c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello again, Giovanni, I assume, then, that Part I is clear. Part II still has me stumped. Part III. I think the women use "contrary" hands, placed behind their backs. Trying this by myself (Kids! don't try this at home!), I think it's easy for the man to give a gentle tug to turn first one woman and then the other toward him for the kissing. Then he turns the remaining woman. How does that look to you? Pat (this time a bit more helpful, I hope...) -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of South Bay English Country Dance Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:47 PM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: RE: kemps jegg ?? Good day Pat. yes, the directions about kissing are easy to follow. a little less easy is: "First man lead the W as before: Turn half round, holding both hands, and his own as much to the other, turn the third W" does this describe a circle 1/2 around for 3 people, followed by a 2-hand turn for M1 and W3? and: "First man take the W as before by the contrary hands behind, then lead them forward and back" whose hand(s) are contrary? and behind what? Just the two more obscure points. Still puzzled, Giovanni At 11:08 PM 10/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear, >so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions..... > >Helpfully, >Pat Giovanni De Amici check out SBECD web page at www.geocities.com/sbecd ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:06:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:36:46 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001003.205814.-847697.8.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Giovanni (and others), In her class at the Amherst Early Music workshop this summer, dance historian Carol Marsh and her students worked up a terrific reconstruction of Kemp's Jig which was performed as part of the theater project. Looked like fun (kissing and all...). Write Carol at c_marsh-AT- uncg.edu Gene Murrow ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:05:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:05:24 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Beethoven's birthday To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2f.b55231d.270c1494-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Allison Thompson wrote: >On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:02:18 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson" > writes: > > Cecil Sharp's Birthday. (December 12) > > > > Saint Cecelia's birthday, also > > >Also the shared birthdays of Jane Austen and Beethoven. I refuse >to think that this is mere mathematical probability. Maybe Jane Austen. I wouldn't know. But Beethoven was baptized on Dec. 17, 1770. There is no record of his birth date. I seem to remember that his bicentennial was celebrated on the 16th in 1970. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:43:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001004064313.22904.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Paul Stamler wrote: > ...It's worth noting, too, that those dancers almost certainly > could not assemble and do *any* dance without a caller, > including the modern classics, because the culture no longer > includes memorizing dances. I think that this is partly because dances more than likely will be done with a different tune each time. Unlike the old traditional ones, I know of no modern Contra that uses a specific tune for the dance. Having the music tell you what to do is one of the reasons that most ECD is memorizable. The problem I have is that when a tune associated with a fairly common dance that I know well enough to dance it in my sleep is used for a different dance, I find it very hard to do the new dance. One case I can remember that I experienced problems was using the tune I know for "The Chestnut" for "All Saints Day" at the Portland Ball. I have done "All Saints Day" numerous times in Boston, but couldn't do it to "The Chestnut" music. My brain, programmed over many years, wanted to do a different dance to that music than the one being taught. Then there is the use of "Morpeth Rant" for a Contra that doesn't really fit it; I find it *so*hard* not to rant. With modern Contras I suspect that it might even be hard to find two bands who use the same tune for a given dance. Sometimes a caller finds a tune that especially fits a dance and asks the band to use it, if they know it, but I've all too often experienced dances that didn't relate at all to the tune the band chose for it and what might be a great dance falls flat. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:04:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001004070412.15767.qmail-AT- web3302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Marian Phillips wrote: > Roger Diggle asks: > > does the average age of the average English dance group > > discourage participation by young dancers? > > > That brings up something I've been curious about -- in the > CDSS-affiliated dances I've been to, the average age seems > fairly high. Is that the norm? > When Lyrl and I first went to Pinewoods (I was 20) and then started travelling from DC to New York and Boston for various events, I seem to remember that Carl Rodgers and Mike Stimson, at about 40, were about the two youngest regular participants in the CDS New York center. They experienced a surge of new younger dancers shortly after that and to some extent that occurred elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly what triggered it. I understand that another surge of young dancers was experienced in New York recently because of interest generated by the Jane Austen movies. Every group seems to experience some degree of new recruits and dormancy. To answer Roger, I think our modern society seperates age groups too much and young people never learn that us "old" people can actually be fun to be around. I also think that many kids spend too much time with canned entertainment, such as TV and video games, and that controls their interests. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:09:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:08:01 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001004064313.22904.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> At 11:43 PM -0700, on 10/3/00, Andrew Peterson wrote: [snip] >Unlike the old >traditional ones, I know of no modern Contra that uses a >specific tune for the dance. The Wizard's Walk (Music: Jay Ungar; Dance: Ruth Ungar) [snip] -- "Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies Gary Shapiro ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:28:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: David.Millstone-AT- valley.net (David Millstone) Subject: Re: Contra/English gap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <17842808-AT- lyme.VALLEY.NET> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On the subject of dancers needing to rely on the caller... --- Paul Stamler wrote: It's more a problem that the idea of dancing something without a caller and a walkthrough simply isn't part of the culture, and hasn't been for a very long time. --- end of quote --- One other factor is the growing number of dances that are called and the proliferation of new dance compositions. Used to be that a dance community had a small and reasonably fixed repertoire; at Duke Miller's dances in the Monadnock region of New Hampshire, for example, everyone (i.e., all the regular dancers) knew that "Because, Just Because" would be the dance before the break and "Money Musk" would always be the first dance after the break; there was a set pattern that you could rely on. A caller's repertoire might contain only a few dozen dances, and as Dudley Laufman is fond of pointing out, in Maine you might dance "Lady of the Lake" three times in one evening. (Try suggesting that today at a hot urban dance!) The match of tune to dance is obviously a factor in singing squares. If half the floor is busy singing along with the caller, "You do-si-do around your corner... With a right hand, go twice around your own (MAKE IT TWICE!)," the pattern and the music become closely linked in the dancer's minds and bodies. The tastes of today's active dancers are different; instead of familiarity, many are seeking a new wrinkle each time they dance, and callers who stick to a smaller, more traditional, repertoire are looked on with disfavor by those dance gypsies who are often the organizers and booking agents for local dance series. In the ECD community, perhaps part of the appeal of Balls-- as opposed to a generic evening dance-- is a desire by some dancers to work with a fixed set of dances, a program where you know what to expect and where you've practiced the figures ahead of time. David Millstone ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:02:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:04:34 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: kemps jegg ?? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39DB6322.2591-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <2.2.32.20001003194646.00923fe0-AT- pop.mail.yahoo.com> You might wish to refer to the interpretation by the Kennedy's published in the Country Dance Book New Series No. 1 (1929). Whilst there is no kissing in their version, it was not the done thing, it might give some clues. Graham Knight ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:11:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:10:50 -0700 From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Science Library" Subject: Lippincott Award Announcement To: Dance-Tech , ECD , Ficino Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39DB72AA.AF5CB2AA-AT- citrus.ucr.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Colleagues-- Please consider nominating a paper. I apologize for cross-postings that you might have received, but I need to disseminate the information widely. Lizbeth Langston Corresponding Secretary, SDHS The Society of Dance History Scholars is proud to announce the fifth GERTRUDE LIPPINCOTT AWARD 2000 Gertrude Lippincott Award Open to members and non-members of SDHS The Society of Dance History Scholars invites submissions and nominations for the fifth annual Gertrude Lippincott Award for the best English language article on dance history or theory published in 2000. The award is named after its donor, Gertrude Lippincott. It was established to recognize excellence in the field of dance scholarship. The $500 award and a certificate will be presented to the winning author at the Society's annual conference in June 2001 at Goucher College in Towson, Maryland. Dance history and theory are broadly defined. Nominations may include the history, theory, and analysis of any genre of dance from any methodological perspective. Authors may submit their own essays. Nominations also may be made by editors, publishers, and members of SDHS (only one entry per nominator or author, please). To enter the competition, send four copies of the published article and a cover letter with the name, address, phone number, and email (if available) of the author to Amy Koritz; Chair, Gertrude Lippincott Award; English Department, Tulane University; New Orleans, LA 70118-5698. Members of the Editorial Board and the Board of Directors of SDHS are not eligible. Written inquiries may be addressed to Amy Koritz or sent via email to: akoritz-AT- mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu No fax or email submissions will be accepted. All nominations must be received by January 31, 2001. The Society of Dance History Scholars is a constituent member of the American Council of Learned Societies ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:32:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:32:31 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, David Millstone wrote (in part): > One other factor is the growing number of dances that are called and the > proliferation of new dance compositions. Used to be that a dance community had a > small and reasonably fixed repertoire; at Duke Miller's dances in the Monadnock > region of New Hampshire, for example, everyone (i.e., all the regular dancers) > knew that "Because, Just Because" would be the dance before the break and "Money > Musk" would always be the first dance after the break; In the Catskills we had a set pattern also. Intermission was always two- inch thick chocolate cake with a sticky two-inch boiled vanilla frosting; and the first dance after intermission always started with an allemande left and grand chain. I think about half the dancers had washed their hands after the cake. Maybe not. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:16:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rmkeller-AT- ex-pressnet.com Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400 From: Robert M Keller Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39DCE19B.DF84314C-AT- ex-pressnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Announcement of On-Line Publication of The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium The reference work, by Robert M. Keller, has been published in cooperation with the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) and the New Hampshire Library for Traditional Music and Dance (NHLTMD). This publication is the first of its kind, which lists all of the dances published in The Dancing Master, as well as facsimiles of each "unique" dance. Uniqueness has been defined as similar Title, Music and Dance Figures. The Compendium comprises a database of all the known country dances, published in the various editions of The Dancing Master, by John Playford, Henry Playford and John Young, from 1651-1728, in London. The 24 editions in three volumes eventually encompassed 1,053 unique dances with their music. Many were copied from one edition to the next so that the entire contents, with duplicates, amounts to 6,217 dances, including 186 tunes without dances and 3 songs. The Compendium can be found at: http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/. The web site includes a Guest Book, where users can submit comments on the site, and an email link. A CD-ROM version of the database is planned, if interest is shown by users. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:56:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:55:58 -0400 (EDT) From: S2LINEN-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Roger Diggle wrote: << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly unruly. I also believe that it's possible to have lively contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the difficulty can be traced to poor leadership. (I can go on about this, and sometimes do.) >> Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give a reminder and/or maybe the caller will reverse the lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added delight! Sandra ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:01:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:44:40 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001005.225338.-847697.21.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob, Congratulations! What resource this will be... On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400 Robert M Keller writes: > ... A CD-ROM version of the database is planned, if interest is shown by users. Yes, I'd like to have a CD-ROM when I'm "on the road" and away from a Web connection. Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:19:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:19:15 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Me too. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:32:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:32:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001006063202.19190.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Gene Murrow wrote: > Bob, > > Congratulations! What resource this will be... > > On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400 Robert M Keller > writes: > > ... A CD-ROM version of the database is planned, if interest > is shown by users. > > Yes, I'd like to have a CD-ROM when I'm "on the road" and away > from a Web connection. > > Gene > It would also be handy for those times that you want to quickly look something up and don't want to take the time to get online. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001006065338.26484.qmail-AT- web3303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- S2LINEN-AT- aol.com wrote: > Roger Diggle wrote: > > << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly > unruly. I also believe that it's possible to have lively > contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the > line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the > sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that > difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the > difficulty can be traced to poor leadership. (I can go on > about this, and sometimes do.) >> > > Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can > injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. > elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" > dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give > a reminder and/or maybe the caller will reverse the > lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to > experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as > being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's > [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added > delight! > Sandra I couldn't agree more with what Roger says, and Sandra, I think that "antics" is probably the more correct term unless you want to call it "lack of respect" for those who are trying to share the dance floor. Sometimes I am tempted to be downright rude back to these people. It's just as disrespectful as the people who drive down the street with the bass on their stereo booming so loud that it rattles my windows for a full minute after they pass (well, it seems like that long) and it seems to be a general symbol of our "me, me, me" society. There I go generalizing again, but rudeness does seem to be quite prevalent. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:38:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:38:22 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Gentle Maiden To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've had a request to find a dance called "Gentle Maiden". This is all the information I have. Can anyone help? >I meant to ask you about >the lovely tune "Gentle Maiden". I finally saw the music for it, and >hope there's a standard longways dance for it. I danced a very nice >longways duple (improper?) dance to that tune in Denver once (1984), >before I had heard about ECD... "Yeah, we did this really elegant >contradance, in waltz time--it was marvelous!!" >If you have the dance, might you bring it? In my faded memory of >it, the figures bear a slight resemblance to the sequence of Childgrove, >with the last 8 bars as a waltz-neighbor-and-progress-to-next-position. >I wouldn't think it would be hard to teach, and certainly the band can >catch on to the (very repetitious) tune quickly. - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:45:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:44:52 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is a wonderful effort by CDSS. I've been a member for years but had no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online. The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom Companion" - see http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the Playford editions, since it does include other European texts. It includes several resources well-known to English Country dancers, including Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures; whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson, dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps & manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions, all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen ... & by ye author ..., 1710 and many other texts by Feuillet. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:57:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:57:38 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I spoke to soon. The Library of Congress does include one edition of Playford from 1698. However I like the Keller effort much better. For one thing the indexing allows you to locate dances by title, where as the LC collection can only be searched by book title. It also looks like the database would permit searching by other fields as well, such as formation. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:04:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rmkeller-AT- ex-pressnet.com Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:04:23 -0400 From: Robert M Keller Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39DDE9F7.6F899472-AT- ex-pressnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Actually, the American Memory Project does have 2 copies of the Dancing Master, the 4th and 10th. What they don't have is any 18th century American dance manuals. There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country Dances on-line? I have images of the 80+ sources. We would have to obtain permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship). morganj-AT- iupui.edu wrote: > This is a wonderful effort by CDSS. I've been a member for years but had > no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online. > > The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of > dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom > Companion" - see > http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html > > I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the > Playford editions, since it does include other European texts. It > includes several resources well-known to English Country dancers, > including > > Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures; > whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy > by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in > the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson, > dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. > > Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of > dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing > country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps & > manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in > an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the > French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions, > all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country > dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing > master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen > ... & by ye author ..., 1710 > > and many other texts by Feuillet. > > Jim Morgan > morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:27:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:26:59 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: >There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American >dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including >several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is >anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country >Dances on-line? Yup. Just tell me what to do. I have a film scanner, extensive photoshop experience and great holes in my knowledge of moving things on to the web! >I have images of the 80+ sources. You've scanned every page?! >We would have to obtain >permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur >they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome >such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as >they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship). > Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:29:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rmkeller-AT- ex-pressnet.com Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:28:46 -0400 From: Robert M Keller Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39DDFDBE.D94FDA8-AT- ex-pressnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Hi, Emily. You did some work coding for the National Tune Index, with Kitty and me many years ago, as I remember. Anyway, I have facsimiles of all of the known American dance sources, up to about 1810. I published an index and database of those dances, with my "patented" Dance Figures Index about 10 years ago. There are about 2800 images, plus or minus. What has to happen is for someone to scan those images AND clean them up. Many have age spots, bleed through, probably coffee stains as well. I found that I had to spend 5-15 minutes, per image doing spot removal, aligning and copying for the Dancing Master publication. So be careful of what you wish for! So it is not just a case of scanning, there is also the graphic editing. I found that Photo Finish did a good job on spot removal, but some careful erasing had to be done, as well. If we could find a few folks who are willing to spend a few hundred hours, for NO pay, simply a contribution to the scholarship and history of dance, it could happen. A few others have sort of expressed interest, so we could organize a group to get started, if you would be interested. It is no small undertaking, but a journey... "Emily L. Ferguson" wrote: > >There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American > >dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including > >several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is > >anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country > >Dances on-line? > > Yup. Just tell me what to do. I have a film scanner, extensive photoshop > experience and great holes in my knowledge of moving things on to the web! > > >I have images of the 80+ sources. > > You've scanned every page?! > > >We would have to obtain > >permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur > >they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome > >such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as > >they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship). > > > > Emily L. Ferguson > elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 > New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography > Beetle cats on the web at: > http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm > http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html > landscape at: > http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:48:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:48:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Robert M Keller wrote: (snip) > So it is not just a case of scanning, there is also the graphic editing. I found > that Photo Finish did a good job on spot removal, but some careful erasing had to > be done, as well. If we could find a few folks who are willing to spend a few > hundred hours, for NO pay, simply a contribution to the scholarship and history > of dance, it could happen. A few others have sort of expressed interest, so we > could organize a group to get started, if you would be interested. It is no small > undertaking, but a journey... Where do you have to be -- and what equipment to you need to own to help? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:48:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:50:27 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Finnish dances To: ecd list Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003b01c0307e$bc2dbae0$53ffdcd1-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi folks: A couple of months ago, someone on the list (Andy?) mentioned they had tapes of dances in Finnish that they hadn't transcribed because no one in the dance group speaks Finnish. Whoever you are, I can put you in touch with someone who may be able to help -- please e-mail me off-list. Thanks! Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:21:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:21:04 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010091621.e99GL4W03763-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm going to try leading Red House for the first time later this month and I was wondering what sort of tempo most people use for this dance. I'm thinking that it may need to be fairly slow (~90 bpm), but I may be way off. I'd appreciate knowing what tempo others use for this dance. Thanks. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:42:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:41:58 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT definitely moderato, or a bit faster. But not much. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:15:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6a.74c415e.27136530-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/9/0 5:42:38 PM, you wrote: <> I would estimate the tempo at which I like to do Red House to be 112 bpm. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:21:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:27:40 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.20001009151420.016cc4b0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In Gene's Dance Leaders' Training in Music workshop, we worked on establishing tempo by choosing a figure from the dance that involves "footwork" and dancing that figure as you run through the tune in your head. Once you feel comfortable with the way you're moving to the music, you've got a reasonable tempo for the dance. Useful sections of Red House for establishing tempo are A2 1-4 [Ones set R & L] and the C music [glorious skip-changing the heys for three]. Gene's class is great! Cheers, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:00:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:00:37 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT dancing that figure as you run through the tune in your >head. Once you feel comfortable with the way you're moving to the music, >you've got a reasonable tempo for the dance. Useful sections of Red House >for establishing tempo are A2 1-4 [Ones set R & L] and the C music >[glorious skip-changing the heys for three]. Somehow it seems the skip/change is less work than the skip, and since I dance in Boston and we do the skip on those heys, if we can get ourselves up for it, I'd set the tempo based on those skipped heys. They're glorious, but still have to maintain a serious measure of stability and dignity because of the radical change of mood immediately after them. Any tempo choice must be able to straddle those types of mood changes in ECD. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:00:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:57:27 -0700 (PDT) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Trevor=20Monson?= Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pine Woods To: ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001009225727.20757.qmail-AT- web1501.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know who is calling at the English Dance week on 11th August 2001 at Pine Woods please. I am sending this form the people who want to know, so hope it gets through OK. Please reply to berniceandjim-AT- aol.com as it is them who are making the request and I may be home by the time anyone answeres me Thanks, Trevor Monson. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:00:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:30:14 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: tempo for Red House To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200010091830_MC2-B64A-4F96-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort. Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere between 104 and 106. Of course, here in Amherst I don't think we generally skip OR skip-change on the heys, and they're still fun at our slightly fast tempo, but maybe we're missing even more fun. I think of this dance as energetic and a great mood-lightener. A lot of teasing and dance-joking inevitably goes on in the chase figures. At a slower tempo, it might be a more subdued, perhaps duller, affair. Joyce Crouch Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:10:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:10:16 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I think of this dance as energetic and a great mood-lightener. A lot of >teasing and dance-joking inevitably goes on in the chase figures. At a >slower tempo, it might be a more subdued, perhaps duller, affair. I think of it has swirly, with increasing energy from the beginning figure through to the heys. Then a drop back in mood to the beginning. Definitely a head trip. But the metronome is packed away in storage......... Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:12:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:11:33 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pine Woods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: berniceandjim-AT- aol.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001009225727.20757.qmail-AT- web1501.mail.yahoo.com> Gee, if any advance information is available about English Week and English-American Week 2001 I'd like to see it as well. At 3:57 PM -0700, on 10/9/00, Trevor Monson wrote: >Does anyone know who is calling at the English Dance >week on 11th August 2001 at Pine Woods please. I am >sending this form the people who want to know, so hope >it gets through OK. >Please reply to berniceandjim-AT- aol.com as it is them >who are making the request and I may be home by the >time anyone answeres me >Thanks, -- "Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies Gary Shapiro ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:33:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:33:27 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010091830_MC2-B64A-4F96-AT- compuserve.com> >I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was >definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort. >Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere >between 104 and 106. My own take is that 108 is a good "generic" tempo for this (and indeed for a lot of the repertoire), pushed a bit in energetic crowds or taken a bit slower if necessary to adapt to a slower group. If I start it at 108, I'm tempted to speed up, and need to watch the dancers carefully to avoid getting carried away. Michael ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:59:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:41:59 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pine Woods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001009.215423.-853473.7.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear all, The English country dance staff for Pinewoods English Week 2001 will be: Helene Cornelius, Bruce Hamilton, Gene Murrow, and featured guest Andrew Shaw (a noted caller and dance reconstructor from England). Bruce will be offering his Dance Callers' Training Workshop at the Week. Musical staff will include all of Bare Necessities, and others whose engagements are in process. Great display/ritual staff as well, including (so far) Yonina Gordon, Kari Smith, and other notables in process. As usual, I'll make sure all Playford.Slac-ers -AT- Stanford.edu have plenty of advance notice once all plans are in place! Any good ideas for a theme for 2001?? How about "Playford meets Zarathustra??" Gene Murrow Program Chairman ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:59:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:54:18 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001009.215423.-853473.8.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:30:14 -0400 Joyce Crouch writes: > I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was > definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for > comfort ... here in Amherst I don't think we generally skip OR > skip-change on the heys I think it's great fun fast (110 or so), with skipping for the chases (B music), and skip-change for the heys (C music). The music practically begs for it. Makes for a nice texture, as Fried Herman would say. Once, when calling the dance at English Week at Mendocino, I made one of my glib off-the-cuff attempts at humor when I noted that there's virtually no "music" for the final cast and lead, and so "you only have 27 milliseconds to do the progression." Had I remembered that Mendocino is a few hours drive from Silicon Valley, I would have been less surprised when old friend Fred Perner, a computer engineer, shouted back from the floor, "27 milliseconds! That's an eternity!!!!" Gene Murrow ECD Dancer, Caller, and Musician, and, hey, I only do the software ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:25:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:25:17 -0700 From: Stephanie Smith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39E2A83D.36BBDA87-AT- boo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001009.215423.-853473.7.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> Gene Murrow wrote: > The English country dance staff for Pinewoods English Week 2001 will be: > Helene Cornelius, Bruce Hamilton, Gene Murrow, and featured guest Andrew > Shaw (a noted caller and dance reconstructor from England). Bruce will > be offering his Dance Callers' Training Workshop at the Week. This sounds great, Gene. What are the dates for the week? Stephanie Stephanie Smith Bethesda, MD steph-AT- boo.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:00:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:58:29 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pine Woods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001009.215423.-853473.7.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> Gene, Will there be a leadership track at English Week? Please say yes! With the staff already planned there it seems like a no-brainer decision. Oh darn. How about at E-A (A-E?) week (or who would know about that)? -- Gary D. Shapiro "Pat, I'd like to buy a lower case vowel in 60 pt. Cooper Black Italic." ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:28:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:31:02 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <00a501c03283$aa261160$4698adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001009.215423.-853473.8.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Murrow <> I go with Gene; we do it at about 110 these days. It's one of our high-energy pieces now. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:29:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:38:22 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Subject: Gentle Maiden To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've had a request to find a dance called "Gentle Maiden". This is all the information I have. Can anyone help? >I meant to ask you about >the lovely tune "Gentle Maiden". I finally saw the music for it, and >hope there's a standard longways dance for it. I danced a very nice >longways duple (improper?) dance to that tune in Denver once (1984), >before I had heard about ECD... "Yeah, we did this really elegant >contradance, in waltz time--it was marvelous!!" >If you have the dance, might you bring it? In my faded memory of >it, the figures bear a slight resemblance to the sequence of Childgrove, >with the last 8 bars as a waltz-neighbor-and-progress-to-next-position. >I wouldn't think it would be hard to teach, and certainly the band can >catch on to the (very repetitious) tune quickly. - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:43:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:44:52 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Subject: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is a wonderful effort by CDSS. I've been a member for years but had no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online. The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom Companion" - see http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the Playford editions, since it does include other European texts. It includes several resources well-known to English Country dancers, including Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures; whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson, dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps & manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions, all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen ... & by ye author ..., 1710 and many other texts by Feuillet. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:52:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20001006065338.26484.qmail-AT- web3303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- S2LINEN-AT- aol.com wrote: > Roger Diggle wrote: > > << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly > unruly. I also believe that it's possible to have lively > contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the > line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the > sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that > difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the > difficulty can be traced to poor leadership. (I can go on > about this, and sometimes do.) >> > > Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can > injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. > elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" > dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give > a reminder and/or maybe the caller will reverse the > lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to > experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as > being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's > [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added > delight! > Sandra I couldn't agree more with what Roger says, and Sandra, I think that "antics" is probably the more correct term unless you want to call it "lack of respect" for those who are trying to share the dance floor. Sometimes I am tempted to be downright rude back to these people. It's just as disrespectful as the people who drive down the street with the bass on their stereo booming so loud that it rattles my windows for a full minute after they pass (well, it seems like that long) and it seems to be a general symbol of our "me, me, me" society. There I go generalizing again, but rudeness does seem to be quite prevalent. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:01:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:04:08 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD Discussion List Message-ID: <39E321D8.C35B4951-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes straight through. Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore- Washington area) where they're done three times. Of course, sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough already!" I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this -- is there a standard convention in your area? Has it changed? Why? (is there a convention, why that convention, why that many times, why has it changed) Mary Kay Friday Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:29:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pinewoods plans To: ecd-digest-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The deeply respected Mr Murrow asks, evidently in a Nietzschean frame of mind: 'Any good ideas for a theme for [English Week]2001?? How about "Playford meets Zarathustra??" ***** My own suggestions, in connection with recent discussions: How about "Last dancer standing gets the door prize?" Or, "Unarmed self defense on the dance floor." (Or even armed-- why not, this is Land of the Free, Home of the Heavily Armed, after all. Which reminds me, what about these rumors of weapons detectors at the entrances to country dances?) Steve Corrsin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:52:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:51:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD Discussion List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Mary K. Friday wrote: > I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are > done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes > straight through. Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've > noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore- > Washington area) where they're done three times. Of course, > sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough > already!" > > I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this -- is there a standard > convention in your area? Has it changed? Why? (is there a > convention, why that convention, why that many times, why has > it changed) I have noticed a tendency to do some set dances, especially three-couple set dances, more than twice through -- I recall a time or two when we might even have suffered a fourth repetition. Definitely too much for many, especially the progressive dances in which the same figures are repeated for each couple who leads it; not so bad for non-progressive dances, perhaps, where there are several sections to the dance. Mixers like Dunant House Waltz, Waters of Holland, & Ashford Anniversary are like progressive dances, but if one were to take a dance like Ashford Anniversary and put a 4th couple in the set, so that the repetition would start with a different partner each time, I believe I'd be quite willing to go 4 times through the whole sequence, so I got to do each figure with each person. But once through this cycle would be enough! In a teaching situation, if I find that I'm still calling the second time 'round (which is quite common), and I feel that they will get it on their own without calls the third time 'round, I'll often go right on into a third time without stopping. Also if it takes a couple of rounds to settle down in a dance situation I might opt for a third round, particularly with some of the shorter dances like Kelsterne Gardens. But a dance like Bonny Cuckoo I wouldn't repeat more than twice. Another reason for repeating set dances, particularly with smaller groups, is so that folks who weren't able to get into a set the first time can still get to do the dance if they watch closely how it goes. That, of course, requires a stop, which is better after no more than twice through, and then another round or two can get them in and those who really don't want to repeat it any more out. Eric -- Ann Arbor > > Mary Kay Friday > Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives) > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:19:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Stephen D. Corrsin wrote: [snip] > My own suggestions, in connection with recent discussions: > > How about "Last dancer standing gets the door prize?" Or, "Unarmed self > defense on the dance floor." (Or even armed-- why not, this is Land of the > Free, Home of the Heavily Armed, after all. Which reminds me, what about > these rumors of weapons detectors at the entrances to country dances?) > > Steve Corrsin It's clear that there has been heavy supression of Cecil-Sharp-style arming in dances, no doubt by those who would deny dancers the right to bare arms. This move, adapted from arm wrestling, has opposing dancers approaching with left arms held up like a semaphore signal -- upper arm horizontal, projecting directly out from the shoulder, and lower arm vertical, with the hand held palm forward. Dancers follow a path identical to that in Sharp-style siding, starting out passing left shoulders, but close enough that their arms strike each other in the middle of the pass, at which point they grasp hands and attempt with all the force they can muster to force the other dancer's arm backwards. This has to be done quickly, because they have to get over to the other side and turn back to repeat the gesture with the other hand. The arms should be bare and preferably well oiled with olive oil; rubbing with garlic was optional but highly popular and much recommended for a macho image. The reason for supression of this now almost unknown figure (vestigal remnants of which have been found cropping up in contras, particularly where contra-insurgency is strong) was given to be that the olive oil dripping from the fighters' -- er, dancers' arms created an unnecessary combat hazard, one which reduced the ferocity of the figure and caused dancers to be exposed to ruthless ridicule when they did the splits instead of the intended figure. But the real reason was the clandestine opposition to the right to bare arms, and with the disappearance of this figure from English Country Dance we have lost an important part of our fighting heritage. AEric the BOld > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:28:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:28:22 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: tempo for Red House To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010101528.e9AFSMv23171-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Joyce Crouch writes: > > I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was > definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort. > Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere > between 104 and 106. Thanks, that sounds like a good compromise. I suppose I won't really know until I get some dancers and try it. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:36:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:36:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT nOn Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > [snip] > > It's clear that there has been heavy supression of Cecil-Sharp-style > arming in dances, no doubt by those who would deny dancers the right to > bare arms. > [snip more] > . . . . . This > has to be done quickly, because they have to get over to the other side > and turn back to repeat the gesture with the other hand. The arms should > be bare and preferably well oiled with olive oil; rubbing with garlic was > optional but highly popular and much recommended I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:49:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:49:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Priscilla M. Burrage wrote: [snippe] > I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ahhh! There is solid evidence to the contrary! The dance "Pilgarlick" shows that they knew it quite well (the term referring to "peeled garlick," i.e. a bald head)... ( ) Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:18:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:21:16 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Dances for 2001 To: ecd list Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <00dd01c032de$80697fa0$6e96adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, you could certainly choreograph something to the Blue Danube Waltz. Or, if you wanted to be macabre, "Daisy, Daisy..." -- perhaps the title could be "My Mind is Going". Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:31:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:31:08 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/10/0 2:02:56 PM, you wrote: <> Having called several set dances in Baltimore last night, I suspect I must have inspired Mary Kay's post. We did Ashford Anniversary three times through. It's very short, moves fast, and I've always found that twice through isn't enough, three times about right. Just a matter of feel, I think. We did Fandango twice through without a stop, as everyone in the hall was dancing. Can't imagine not doing that twice after going through the teaching. We did Prince William twice with a stop allowing substitutions. Same reason, plus substitutions. We did Shrewsbury Lasses twice, I think. In general, I think twice through for most set dances is right. Ashford Anniversary deserves more because of how short it is. Maiden Lane needs three times to get your partner back. I avoid stopping between repetitions unless substitutions are appropriate. I hadn't noticed doing many set dances three times through in Baltimore - haven't been to DC lately. I agree that many don't stand up to a third repetition without boredom (consider Upon a Summer's Day). Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:11:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:12:48 +0100 From: Chris Kenward Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT signoff ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:22:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:23:55 -0700 From: Ric Goldman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Chris, Please don't send this to the list. The rest of us can't help you with it. Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address. Thanx, Ric > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM > To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Subject: > > > signoff > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:31:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:33:02 -0700 From: Ric Goldman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Apologies To: ECD LIST Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks, Obviously I fell prey to the demons of hidden headers. I explicitly sent this back to Chris, but magically it went to everyone. Apologies. Ric -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ric Goldman Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:24 PM To: kenwardc-AT- tgis.co.uk Subject: RE: Chris, Please don't send this to the list. The rest of us can't help you with it. Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address. Thanx, Ric > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM > To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Subject: > > > signoff > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:34:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:14:08 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pine Woods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001010.152905.-853473.9.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear all, English Week at Pinewoods is August 11 - 18, 2001. On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:58:29 -0700 "Gary D. Shapiro" writes: > Will there be a leadership track at English Week? Yes indeed. Bruce Hamilton is offering his very thorough, highly acclaimed leadership program concurrently with the English Week program. It will be a separate registration, and numbers are limited. Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:29:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:29:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001010202952.24746.qmail-AT- web1610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- "Mary K. Friday" wrote: > I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are > done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes > straight through. Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've > noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore- > Washington area) where they're done three times. Of course, > sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough > already!" > > I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this I've always felt that twice through for "St. Margaret's Hill" and "Prince William" just aren't enough, and wished that the convention encompassed three times through. I definitely lean in that direction for "Come, Let's Be Merry" as well. Other set dances I don't feel so strongly about. When it takes a fair amount of time to teach a dance, it does seem a bit of a waste to then run through it only a couple of times, unless it was a boring dance in the first place, in which case doing it more is simply throwing good time after bad. I'm not certain how many times through "St. Margaret's" it would take to make it feel boring, but I've often thought that if I were about to die and given the opportunity to do one last thing, dancing "St. Margaret's Hill" with my favorite partner and a perfect set would be my second choice. ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:52:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:52:17 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > "St. Margaret's Hill" and >"Prince William", "Come, Let's Be Merry" Now there are three dances that really don't need to be done more than twice, with a break between. The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:53:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:06:41 -0700 From: Gregory Hamburg Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Apologies To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <01C032E5.40EF5460.ghamburg-AT- vom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Your forgiven Greg On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:33 PM, Ric Goldman [SMTP:timelord01-AT- sprynet.com] wrote: > Folks, > > Obviously I fell prey to the demons of hidden headers. I explicitly sent > this back to Chris, but magically it went to everyone. Apologies. > > Ric > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ric Goldman > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:24 PM > To: kenwardc-AT- tgis.co.uk > Subject: RE: > > Chris, > > Please don't send this to the list. The rest of us can't help you with it. > Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address. > > Thanx, Ric > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward > > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM > > To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > > Subject: > > > > > > signoff > > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:49:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:49:22 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200010102149_MC2-B676-3277-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>> perceived the convention to be that set dances are done twice through<<< The convention in Amherst, MA, is twice through, and that seems to prevail at Pinewoods and most Balls & festivals in the Northeast. Haven't noticed any new convention creeping in around here, except for offering to repeat the dance for those who had to sit out. I'd be interested to know when & how the twice-through convention developed. It seems sensible and right for most set dances, but there are certainly times when I personally feel I've just gotten back my body-memory of all the good moments from all the positions in a slightly unfamiliar set dance, when the darn thing ends and I wish I could have had one more satisfying chance to really dance it well. In a longways, you get more chances to improve and work out the kinks. Actually, I'm glad this topic came up so I can lobby nationwide and internationally for letting Kelsterne Gardens run 3 times through! To me it *always* seems to be over too soon when done only twice-through. I also agree that Ashford Anniversary is nice to do 3x, partly because it's over quickly, partly because I find the tune so wonderful (when played modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II), and partly because I just love flinging my body around in those turn-singles at that speed. Joyce Crouch Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:52:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:57:38 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Subject: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I spoke to soon. The Library of Congress does include one edition of Playford from 1698. However I like the Keller effort much better. For one thing the indexing allows you to locate dances by title, where as the LC collection can only be searched by book title. It also looks like the database would permit searching by other fields as well, such as formation. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:38:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:38:13 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <67.aa6fe29.27153aa5-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/11/00 1:50:33 AM, joycecrouch-AT- compuserve.com writes: << Ashford Anniversary...when played modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II).... Joyce Crouch >> I second the motion about playing AA without the F#s. Thank you Joyce! Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:12:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:12:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JV6VZ00AXK8ZNFXH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Joyce Crouch wrote: I also agree that Ashford Anniversary is nice to do 3x, partly because it's over quickly, partly because I find the tune so wonderful (when played modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II), and partly because I just love flinging my body around in those turn-singles at that speed. Experience suggests that instrumentation and band attitude have a lot to do with it. I have encountered dull "Ashford Anniversary" sets. However, give me a group with Allen Dodson on hurdy-gurdy and I'll do 3x and want more. It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to do _Black Nag_ 9 times through. (The dance, not the tune.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:16:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:19:11 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <015e01c03353$907d3240$c196adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010102149_MC2-B676-3277-AT- compuserve.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Crouch <> As a musician I have to agree, both with the 3x and the F-naturals. It's a great modal tune (check out "Ancient Dances of Hungary" on Hungaroton White Label for a nice version), and playing it is way too much fun to quit after twice through the set. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 03:35:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:16:54 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39E43005.66FC-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Emily said: "The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start." I would totally agree. Graham Knight ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:22:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:52:27 -0400 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>>> perceived the convention to be that set dances are >done twice through<<< > >The convention in Amherst, MA, is twice through, and that seems to prevail >at Pinewoods and most Balls & festivals in the Northeast. Is this why Handel with Care is played 6x on the Simple Pleasures/Bare Necessities CD? And, just for clarification, when respondents talk about twice or three times through, am I correct in my understanding that this generally means non-stop as opposed to pausing after the first go round and then playing the dance again? Finally, just out of curiosity, is there any virtue in and has anyone ever tried dancing a USA dance as USASU? Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:26:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:26:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001011132646.1178.qmail-AT- web1610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- "Emily L. Ferguson" wrote: > > "St. Margaret's Hill" and > >"Prince William", "Come, Let's Be Merry" > The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start. I consider the object of all of them to be to enjoy them to the utmost. ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:07:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:07:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 CF1125-AT- aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/11/00 1:50:33 AM, joycecrouch-AT- compuserve.com writes: > > << Ashford Anniversary...when played modally, without the F#s that crept into > my edition of Barnes II).... > > Joyce Crouch >> > > I second the motion about playing AA without the F#s. Thank you Joyce! > Carl Friedman > The question of to F# or not to F# probably should be directed to the experts in early music and _musica ficta_ -- the failure to indicate certain accidentals in early manuscripts and published sources is well documented; some playing of early music before the conventions of musica ficta were known or well understood therefore didn't apply conventions that would have been used at the time the music was in vogue, with the result that some of the "modal" sounds we have come to regard as characteristic of early music don't really belong there -- but it is not that simple to know when to alter and when not to, since the modern concept of "key" and with it the regularization of notation regarding the use of sharps & flats was still evolving in the 17th century. (The tune for "Ashford Anniversary" comes from a publication by Phalese around 1580, if my memory serves me well.) Gene, or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, can you provide an opinion on what the likely practice would have been for the tune in queston? Eric Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:39:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:39:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ashford Anniversary: modal or tonal? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: [regarding whether or not to play F#s in ashford anniversary] > Gene, or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, can you provide an > opinion on what the likely practice would have been for the tune in > queston? gene is more of an expert on this, but my educated guess, based on what i've studied of music ficta, is that in 1580, musicians with formal training *whose instruments allowed it* would have played those Fs as F#s whether or not a sharp was written in the music. a few years ago i heard the group hesperus (which has recorded both early music and some crossover early music/folk music albums - well worth hearing if you get the chance!) play the ashford anniversary tune in concert. i asked tina chancey afterwards how they had decided which way to play the Fs - it sounded to me as though they were splitting the difference between F and F# - and got the impression that they played it the way they liked it, not based on any particular rule. i love modal tunes most of the time, but in the case of ashford anniversary i personally prefer at least some of the Fs to be sharp, or halfway sharp (which is possible on unfretted string instruments and even on some woodwinds). what i would dislike more than the F-naturals would be if anyone insisted theirs was the only right way to play it. opinionatedly, susie lorand princeton, nj ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:13:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:13:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Berger Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > The question of to F# or not to F# probably should be directed to the > experts in early music and _musica ficta_ > . . . some of the "modal" sounds we have come to regard as > characteristic of early music don't really belong there . . . With the greatest respect for the study of music history, I disagree with this sentiment to the extent it suggests that dance musicians should prefer historical accuracy over what sounds best to the dancers. Our notions of what sounds best are the result of a lifetime of listening to music, and if some of the notions are "wrong," by some academic standard, they're still very much present. If F natural sounds better than F#, it sounds better, and sounding better is better than sounding worse even if the reason it sounds better is that the listener's opinion of what sounds good is conditioned by years of hearing early music played by people who neglected to consult with their local music historian about the interpretation of 16th-century notational systems. I, personally, am entirely content to leave the re-creating of authentic period sounds to people who specialize in that. My goal is to please the people who are actually in the room at the time I'm playing -- which probably means I shouldn't play dances for groups of experts in early music and _musica ficta_, whatever the heck that is, but they probably wouldn't hire me anyway. But then, my favorite ECD recording is "Seven to Midnight" by Pyewackett, so maybe I'm just weird. ------------------------------- Jon Berger Personal: jberger-AT- monitor.net Business: jon-AT- perforce.com http://www.monitor.net/~jberger ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:15:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: TOMAAA-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6c.3c8db14.2715ebf4-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been lurking for a while, trying to learn something, I've finally got something to say. Strictly from a dancer's point of view (and a novice at that), what irks me about a break between first and second time through is: starting as half of the #1 couple in St. Margaret's Hill and going through the dance once. As I'm hand turning with my partner at the top, and we are about to flow seamlessly into a cast to start the second time through, the music stops -- St. Margaretus interruptus. A similar feeling occurs in Prince William when I'm a "one." Casting up from the bottom after the first time through and flowing into first place for the cross-over mirror hey, the break between the first and second time removes the flowing feeling that I enjoy. The same is true for Wooing Maire (sp?) and a few others that I can't think of right now. I'd much prefer being a two or three when these dances are done twice through with a break. I'm sure that from a teachers perspective there are reasons for a break...cleaning up rough edges etc, However I do feel that something is taken away from the total experience of some set dances when there is a break. There have been times when a set dance is done once through, a break is taken to brush it up a bit, and then it's done twice through without a break. Just my humble opinion. Tom Amesse ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:27:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:29:22 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <007c01c033a0$6aabc5c0$d598adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Berger <> No, just smart. But Jon gets back to something fundamental: Our job is to produce music that moves along the dance, delightfully, not to provide a museum-quality re-creation. (After all, we're providing music for a dance that's, what, ten years old?) We're mostly doing in on instruments that didn't exist when the music was written -- Boehm flutes, steel-strung guitars, pianos. And we are doing it with brains that grew up in the twentieth century, with all the cultural influences accruing thereto. So we play what works and makes a good-sounding tune -- which for me means F natural. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:28:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:29:27 +0000 From: Phil D'Agostino Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary: modal or tonal? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.20001011112927.3e2fce12-AT- mum.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The presence of F#s changes the character of the tune completely, for my ear. I love Karen Axelrod's recording of this tune (on "Between the Keys"), which contains only F naturals. I personally feel that the modal version has a musical power that the tonal version would lack. Of course, I didn't major in Musicology.... Phil D'Agostino(dancer,pianist) At 11:39 AM 10/11/2000 -0400, you wrote: > >On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > >[regarding whether or not to play F#s in ashford anniversary] > >> Gene, or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, can you provide an >> opinion on what the likely practice would have been for the tune in >> queston? > >gene is more of an expert on this, but my educated guess, based on what >i've studied of music ficta, is that in 1580, musicians with formal >training *whose instruments allowed it* would have played those Fs as F#s >whether or not a sharp was written in the music. > >a few years ago i heard the group hesperus (which has recorded both early >music and some crossover early music/folk music albums - well worth >hearing if you get the chance!) play the ashford anniversary tune in >concert. i asked tina chancey afterwards how they had decided which way >to play the Fs - it sounded to me as though they were splitting the >difference between F and F# - and got the impression that they played it >the way they liked it, not based on any particular rule. > >i love modal tunes most of the time, but in the case of ashford >anniversary i personally prefer at least some of the Fs to be sharp, or >halfway sharp (which is possible on unfretted string instruments and even >on some woodwinds). what i would dislike more than the F-naturals would be >if anyone insisted theirs was the only right way to play it. > >opinionatedly, > >susie lorand >princeton, nj > > > Phil D'Agostino Systems Engineering-Dept. of Communcations Maharishi University of Management Fairfield, Iowa 52557 641-472-7000 x2001 641-472-1137(Fax) 641-472-1228 Box 1000 (voice Mail) phild-AT- mum.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:53:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:52:41 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to >do _Black Nag_ 9 times through. (The dance, not the tune.) The poor musicians! I enjoy the tune, but it is hard on the fingers, for a fiddle player anyway. We always do Black Nag and other 3-couple dances at least twice without a break, unless the dance is falling apart. Sometimes I think the caller just forgets to tell us to stop the 6th time through the tune, and then is committed to finishing the cycle. The band usually glares at the caller (who is usually oblivious). Fandango twice through for each couple, 12 times through the tune, is more than enough! Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:58:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Jon Berger wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > > > The question of to F# or not to F# probably should be directed to the > > experts in early music and _musica ficta_ > > > > > . . . some of the "modal" sounds we have come to regard as > > characteristic of early music don't really belong there . . . [back to Jon] and if > some of the notions are "wrong," by some academic standard, they're still > very much present. If F natural sounds better than F#, it sounds better, > and sounding better is better than sounding worse even if the reason it > sounds better is that the listener's opinion of what sounds good is > conditioned by years of hearing early music played by people who neglected > to consult with their local music historian about the interpretation of > 16th-century notational systems. Let me explain what my point was more clearly. I meant to point out that some of the modal variants that we have become used to come to us by peculiar routes, and I didn't use the word "wrong" anywhere. What I said was that certain things which we do don't belong in early music; I didn't say that this _was_ early music, only that that is where it came from. The original reference was " without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II" (by Joyce Crouch) and I doubt that Peter would put them there just because some musicologist or early music stickler told him that he was wrong and that they should be F#'s. He probably put them in because he dedided that he liked it better that way. If we were freer about making such modal variants, perhaps to increase the "power" of the music (probably because it departs from what we are used to, so it grabs our attention in a particularly powerful way), there wouldn't be much point to be made here. But it seems that these variants crop up principally in certain areas, especially in connection with early music, but also, it appears, in the recording of much of the traditional folk songs by folks like Sharp & Vaughn Williams. I'm not trying to say what's right or wrong; what I'm saying is that I think the origins of these questions are worth exploring. Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:03:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:03:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: [snip] > It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to > do _Black Nag_ 9 times through. (The dance, not the tune.) !!??? That would be 27 times through the tune? Woe! (or Whoa!) Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:56:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:55:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JV7IHQKAWI8ZM8Q6-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I wrote: >It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to >do _Black Nag_ 9 times through. (The dance, not the tune.) Emma Rushton replied: The poor musicians! I enjoy the tune, but it is hard on the fingers, for a fiddle player anyway. We always do Black Nag and other 3-couple dances at least twice without a break, unless the dance is falling apart. Most of the time, the Los Angeles Regency groups dance to tapes, and they have a specially-prepared tape with _Black Nag_ on it 11 times; that's 33 times through the tune (but it's the same 3 times 11 times). -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:13:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:12:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Oiled and dangerous To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <70.3c8bba8.271607a4-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Priscilla M. Burrage wrote: > >[snippe] > >> I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Ahhh! There is solid evidence to the contrary! The dance "Pilgarlick" >shows that they knew it quite well (the term referring to "peeled >garlick," i.e. a bald head)... ( ) > >Eric > And let us not forget that delightful dance "Fentergarlick".... Nilos ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:00:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:59:58 -0700 (PDT) From: James Langdell Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <200010111859.LAA15638-AT- bassclar.eng.sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston wrote: > It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to > do _Black Nag_ 9 times through. (The dance, not the tune.) That does include a pause for the dancers to recirculate between each USA group. But I think it's excessive to triple up the tripled USA-triplets. That's almost...Masonic, or something. --James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com OR langdell-AT- earthlink.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:11:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:11:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Source of F#'s in Ashford Anniversary To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: [snip] > The original reference was " without the F#s that crept into my edition of > Barnes II" (by Joyce Crouch) and I doubt that Peter would put them there > just because some musicologist or early music stickler told him that he > was wrong and that they should be F#'s. He probably put them in because > he dedided that he liked it better that way. Or perhaps he put them in because that was the way that Charles Bolton published this dance (in "More of the Same") (8-?) Eric (again) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:57:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:50:00 +0100 From: Trevor Monson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pine Wood To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002401c033bd$c33a7e80$378e01d4-AT- trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks to everyone for the replies about Pine Woods - I have forwarded the ones from the ECD list to them. You lucky people having a week (or is it 2 weeks) of Andrew teaching! Trevor Monson _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:31:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:31:25 -0500 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Learning English dance To: English Article Message-ID: <007d01c033c2$3b6c5000$5ee1490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm fairly new to English dance (although I've done a lot of other kinds of dance) and am thinking about going to some out of state dance events to learn more - any suggestions? Favorites? In the US or elsewhere? I'd especially like to learn basic dances (ie those that turn up most everywhere) as well as the dances done in Jane Austen's time. Thanks for any ideas, Dianna Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive Houston, TX 77019-3908 Scottish Country Dancing and More web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:07:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Learning English dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JV7OFISTJ68ZLWI2-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dianna wrote: I'm fairly new to English dance (although I've done a lot of other kinds of dance) and am thinking about going to some out of state dance events to learn more - any suggestions? Favorites? In the US or elsewhere? I'd especially like to learn basic dances (ie those that turn up most everywhere) as well as the dances done in Jane Austen's time. Mendocino English Week (July 14-21 in 2001; Mendocino is in Northern California, so it's a long way from Texas) has for the last several years had an 'introductory' or 'repertoire' or 'favorites' class, which would be just about exactly what you're looking for. It's a wonderful week, and our programmer for 2001, Jocelyn Reynolds, has already assembled a fabulous staff - 3/4 of Bare Necessities (Jacqueline Schwab, Mary Lea, Earl Gaddis), Helene Cornelius, and - both Helene and Jacqueline to lead English dancing - Rick Mohr leading display dance classes - Peter ffoulkes doing Northwest Morris - and a fabulous assortment of West Coast musicians and other instructors. (This is not a complete staff listing because I couldn't find one in my notes.) Come out to California! Watch our web page (reachable via http://www.bacds.org/eweek/ for details.) I'd also expect that you could find basics and repertoire at Pinewoods English-American week. Dances of Jane Austen's time will take a little more work. (She's 1770-1813, I believe.) Beverly Francis did a splendid program of dances with some connection to her; I think she posted it to the list some years back, and you should be able to find it in the archives. I think I recall that you do RSCDS Scottish, which contains, I believe, quite a few dances from the late 18th century, done in a style more like the historical style than the way we ECDers do them. "Flowers of Edinburgh" would be an example here. For references, you could try the Apted Book, which is 1770s dances, or go through _Kentish Hops_ and pick out the interesting dances by date. (It's worth noticing that Bert Simons was collecting dances with 'Kentish' connections, and publishing the really good ones as he went along. The posthumous collection seems to be the whole collection, and they're not all wonderful. But there's lots of early 1800s material in it.) I've been paying special attention to dances of Jane Austen's time because of leading a lot of Regency dancing, and tending to bend the repertoire more towards the plausibly-historical, but I haven't been hired by any camps to teach a class on the subject. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:44:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:44:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Orly Krasner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Musica ficta To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jon Berger wrote: >_musica ficta_, whatever the heck that is Be careful, Jon! That's an almost TOO tempting opening for someone (me) who is both an academic AND a musicologist, but I prefer to remain off duty whenever I dance. . . . :-) --Orly. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:27:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:26:39 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200010111826_MC2-B69E-D079-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Martin E. Mulligan asked: >>>Is this why Handel with Care is played 6x on the Simple Pleasures/Bare Necessities CD?<<< I believe so. Since this is my very favorite 2-cpl dance, I would personally feel deprived if made to stop after 3x. But it *is* fun to swap positions and dance it all over again for a second 6x! (this dance is non-progressive.) >>>And, just for clarification, when respondents talk about twice or three times through, am I correct in my understanding that this generally means non-stop as opposed to pausing after the first go round and then playing the dance again?<<< Not speaking for the whole world, but judging by my own experience in the Northeast US, yes, Martin, you are correct in that understanding. So, for example, the tune for Kelsterne Gardens would be played 6 times non-stop and the dancing couples would get 2 turns at each position in the set. (Except if I had my way, KG would be played 9 times non-stop, making it 3 complete rounds of the dance :-) ) As others have mentioned, there are some very neat transitions that can be enjoyed when a set dance goes non-stop into another round. Joyce Crouch Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:47:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:47:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Musica ficta To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Orly Krasner wrote: > Jon Berger wrote: > >_musica ficta_, whatever the heck that is the opposite of _musica recta_, which i'm sure will shed lots of light... susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:03:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:04:55 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39E57EB5.2B8-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Yes there is a USASU dance but for the life of me I cannot remember its title. If memory serves me correctly it was written by Trevor Monson. Over to you Trevor. Graham Knight ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:40:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:31:37 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary F#'s To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001012.103142.-853473.19.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What... huh... did I hear my name being called into a discussion... About musica ficta? Why can't this list stick to relatively straightforward topics, like the definition of "Folk" or the solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. As it happens, Bare Necessities recorded Ashford Anniversary for their forthcoming CD (Volume 4), and so we had to discuss the issue before committing our answer to laser/plastic posterity. It's been on my mind. More about that at the end [no peeking!]. IMHO, Susie, Eric, and Jon are all correct. Musicians in the late 16th century might well have used the rules of musica ficta (music's unwritten rules) to make the F into an F#, giving the tune a more "regular" sound (like our modern day major key, rather than the more distinctive modal sound). But the governing principle of musica ficta was in essence to make the necessary changes to make the music "sound right." Applying Corrsin's Law of Authenticity ("Tradition is whatever you can get away with") we can say, as Jon Berger does, simply to do what sounds best or right, and claim that we're conforming to the essence of the historical practice. If our bands and dancers like the modal sound, then do it and don't worry about it! [Warning: Boring Pedantic Discussion; skip directly to next paragraph for humorous bit] The tune for AA comes from Pierre Phalese's "Antwerpener Tanzbuch" of 1583, where it is called an "Ungaresca." Phalese was the Peter Barnes of his day, publishing handy manuals of popular dance tunes which included his ideas about harmony for the tunes. Unlike Peter, who uses contemporary chord symbols for harmonic suggestions, Phalese wrote out 4 part arrangements (the melody in the top part, plus his own "alto, tenor, and bass" parts). Normally, such arrangements would give us a great clue about issues like musica ficta, but, maddeningly, the arrangement of the Ungaresca is just a drone! The other parts simply hold the same note (G or D) for the whole trip-- one damn note across the whole page! Tells us nothing. The "standard" edition of Phalese that early musickers carry around is published by Heinrichshofen's Verlag, in which distinguished editor Helmut Monkemeyer does indicate with a # above the F's that he believes ficta dictates the raised 7th. I dunno... that drone suggests a "peasant" sound, and perhaps the F natural modal sound is more appropriate. [End of BPD] All this musica ficta business (figuring out where and when to put sharps (#) and flats (b) when not written) is best summed up by a limerick with a "moral" by David Goldstein, an 80-something elfin amateur recorder player, composer, raconteur, bon vivant, who writes: Musicians, pray take off your hats And mourn for a man who went "bats," When firm in his dicta On musica ficta, He floundered in flurries of flats. **"Duck the ficta, and f--k the dicta!"*** As for the BN's... we decided on the F naturals, which puts the tune into mixolydian mode (more or less. The scale is G to G on the white keys of a piano). It definitely sounds cool, and having "G mixolydian" in the liner notes certainly is cooler than "G major." :-) As Frank Attanasio said when proofreading, "...sounds like something that would be banned in Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama and 12 other states." Gene Murrow ECD Dancer, Caller, and Musician, all ficticious ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:45:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oiled and dangerous To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <96.ac3acfb.27173681-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nilos wrote- >And let us not forget that delightful dance "Fentergarlick".... That's what I love about Nilos. She'll find a way to add garlic to _anyhing_. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:45:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:04 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Musica ficta To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <21.20ccb7f.27173680-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jon wrote: >_musica ficta_, whatever the heck that is and Orly replied: >Be careful, Jon! That's an almost TOO tempting opening for >someone (me) who is both an academic AND a musicologist, but I >prefer to remain off duty whenever I dance. . . . I agree with Orly. Duck the ficta, Jon. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:45:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary F#'s To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001012174535.21515.qmail-AT- web1607.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Gene Murrow wrote: > Musicians in the late 16th century might well >have used the rules of musica ficta (music's unwritten rules) Are you saying they're ficta dicta? Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:01:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:00:51 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary F#'s To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200010121401_MC2-B6B9-F37A-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT thanks to all who took up the question of the F#s in AA! It's been interesting and educational. And reminded me how easy it is to make assumptions about printed music. I encountered AA before it appeared in Barnes II, with the music supplied by another musician (Susan Kevra, who got it from someone else, who... etc). (It not only had no F#s, but the B part of the tune was slightly different from the one subsequently published by Peter.) For me and for our band, it was love at first sight! It sounded wonderfully ancient, fitting in with the "Phalese 1580" and "G mixolydian" designations at the top of the page. We droned away, played it in as primitive a fashion as we could manage, wished it lasted longer than 6x...and dancers loved it. So when Barnes II came out, I was not exactly happy to see F# in the key signature and the tune slightly different in a way that to me weakened it. Well, you know how love is...preferring to believe that there had been an error in Barnes II, I stuck faithfully to my old version and thought it superior. And I will continue to do so, but ever since Susie's email, I've started to think certain of those F's *might* sound really good as F#s! (or as "almost F#s," if I could do that on the piano, which I can't.) And I expect that now and then in the future an F# will creep into my playing of this melody, (though not into the accompanying harmony) and I'll like it when it happens. :-) Joyce Crouch Amherst MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:51:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:52:53 -0400 From: "Susan B. Booker" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Learning English Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003401c0347d$a4efa8e0$1195fcd1-AT- prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dianna, Berea College's Christmas Country Dance School in Berea, KY offers a wonderful intensive course of many kinds of dance, of which ECD is pre-eminent. This year, classes in both ECD classics and newly-composed dances in the manner of the old ECDs will be offered, along with "Dance Gems of Days Gone By", with much else: storytelling, crafts, singing, ritual dance, mummers' play, etc. All music is live, and the staff is incomparable. Classes begin on Dec. 27; run from 9:00 - 5:15, and there are dance parties each evening. It all begins with registration on the afternoon of December 26, and concludes New Year's Day after an elegant New Year's Eve banquet and ball, followed by a sumptuous Boone Tavern breakfast. An memorable week...and as others have noted, "Sellinger's Round, or, The Beginning of the World" will be danced at midnight, December 31-January 1! Check out the website at http://www.berea.edu/Dance/DanceHome.htm#01 Hope you will join the fun. Susan Booker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:22:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:25:24 +0100 From: francis2 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Garlic To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <018701c03492$effa4600$9b90183e-AT- oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Didnt you know that the isle if Wight has an annual garlic festival? Masses of garlic is grown ans sold from farms on the island. And it doesnt taint the breath like French garlic does. Happy eating francis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: Re: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans) > nOn Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > It's clear that there has been heavy supression of Cecil-Sharp-style > > arming in dances, no doubt by those who would deny dancers the right to > > bare arms. > > > [snip more] > > . . . . . This > > has to be done quickly, because they have to get over to the other side > > and turn back to repeat the gesture with the other hand. The arms should > > be bare and preferably well oiled with olive oil; rubbing with garlic was > > optional but highly popular and much recommended > > I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Priscilla Burrage Vermont US > (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:33:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:27:15 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Orthographica ficta To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001012.172817.-853473.21.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:31:37 -0400 Gene Murrow writes: > ... Gene Murrow > ECD Dancer, Caller, and Musician, all ficticious Please apply orthographica ficta, so that ficticious is properly rendered as fictitious. Thanks, Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:17:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:13:14 +0100 From: Trevor Monson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <006701c034a2$f8546280$509801d4-AT- trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <39E57EB5.2B8-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> Graham Knight wrote: > Yes there is a USASU dance but for the life of me I cannot remember its > title. If memory serves me correctly it was written by Trevor Monson. > Over to you Trevor. > You're quite right Graham! I wrote "Abbey Reflection" to the tune "The Butterfly" (5 times through a 3x8 bar tune) in 1997. As well as being a USASU dance, it is also a mirror image from half way through the arming part (at the very middle of the dance). It is (briefly):- U - up a double, a hey, down a double S - Sharp type siding, a different hey, side again A - arm right to start, anothernother hey, arm left S - Sharp siding with wrong shoulder, the other S hey reversed, side again U - down a double, the first U hey reversed, up a double etc to finish. Hope that makes sense! If not, or if anybody would like a full copy of the dance please email me off list as my notation, music etc is in Word97. (It is only a 54K file) Trevor Monson PS. Adding to the discussion on the number of times through a set dance should be done, in South Yorkshire we tend to dance a dance once through only, and only dance it again if the dancers really want to (this is at a dance, not a workshop). It is very rare to dance a dance through more than once without stopping (but "Waters of Holland" comes to mind). Some callers will dance every set dance twice, with a break between, when there is no demand for it to be repeated - but then they don't get invited back to South Yorkshire again that soon! There has to be good reason to dance it again, or else people soon start complaining! - the comment often heard - "we've just done this dance, why are we wasting time doing it again?"! (I am not speaking for the rest of England - just my area) Trev. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:44:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:44:32 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary & Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <60.7afb07a.2717a6e0-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Maybe one should accept that Charles, whose dance it is, prefers the tune with an F sharp? I think Jame's dates were 1775 - 1821: certain it is that she was 46 when she died. The Assembly Players' CD "Dance and Danceability" (which Dianna has) comprises the results of my trawl through Kentish Hops, Holland as seen ..., The Cambrian Dances (WFDS), The Apted Book, Totally Thompson I, Hunter's Moon, The Fallibroome books, Fried's Books, Charles Bolton's Retreads, The Long Odds leaflet, Pat Woods' Fan Dances and anything else published this century I could find with dances from that period. I started out with a list of 144 dances and whittled it down to 24 to make as balanced a Programme as possible. I did not have to leave out many I should have liked to include, by the way! Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:55:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary & Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JV997NVP5U8ZLD5J-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nicolas wrote: The Assembly Players' CD "Dance and Danceability" (which Dianna has) comprises the results of my trawl through Kentish Hops, Holland as seen ..., The Cambrian Dances (WFDS), The Apted Book, Totally Thompson I, Hunter's Moon, The Fallibroome books, Fried's Books, Charles Bolton's Retreads, The Long Odds leaflet, Pat Woods' Fan Dances and anything else published this century I could find with dances from that period. Is _The Cambrian Dances_ in print? Is it worthwhile? I started out with a list of 144 dances and whittled it down to 24 to make as balanced a Programme as possible. I did not have to leave out many I should have liked to include, by the way! Despite our thinking of Jane Austen as the icon of country dancing, she lived during the serious decline of the country dance. Lots of 'different' dances were very much alike; variety of figures got to be less and less, and toward the end of her life the quadrille had just about displaced the country dance from, at least, the fashionable ballroom. There are quite a few dances from this period that have eight counts worth of setting steps, which can be kind of tedious if you're doing the same setting step all the time, as we tend to do in Sharp-esque ECD. I believe these were opportunities for improvisation and showing off, so would have been welcomed by the dancers then, although now it would be almost unthinkable to have two such dances in the same evening. (Well, you can get away with 'Dover Pier' on one end and 'Young Widow' on the other, but that's about as far as you can go with a sophisticated ECD audience.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:22:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:31:43 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary & Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.20001012202637.01776650-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 04:55 PM 10/12/00 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >There are quite a few dances from this period that have eight counts worth >of setting steps, which can be kind of tedious if you're doing the same setting >step all the time, as we tend to do in Sharp-esque ECD. I believe these were >opportunities for improvisation and showing off, so would have been welcomed by >the dancers then, although now it would be almost unthinkable to have two such >dances in the same evening. (Well, you can get away with 'Dover Pier' on one >end and 'Young Widow' on the other, but that's about as far as you can go with >a sophisticated ECD audience.) [Omigosh, I'm going to disagree with _Alan_!] (~: If the music's as super/dynamic as Jacque Latin, you can get away with double-setting lots! Unsophisticatedly, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:33:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:33:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary & Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JV9AJZURIA8ZLWI2-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sharon quoted me: >There are quite a few dances from this period that have eight counts worth >of setting steps, which can be kind of tedious if you're doing the same >setting >step all the time, as we tend to do in Sharp-esque ECD. I believe these were >opportunities for improvisation and showing off, so would have been welcomed by >the dancers then, although now it would be almost unthinkable to have two such >dances in the same evening. (Well, you can get away with 'Dover Pier' on one >end and 'Young Widow' on the other, but that's about as far as you can go with >a sophisticated ECD audience.) and wrote: [Omigosh, I'm going to disagree with _Alan_!] (~: If the music's as super/dynamic as Jacque Latin, you can get away with double-setting lots! But I'm not exactly going to disagree with you. Jaque Latin also has fun and unusual figures, and the music is often quite rantable. (I seem to remember that Willsim is 1750s, though, so it's not during Jane Austen's lifetime, and doesn't serve as an example of eight-count setting from that period that can be perceived as tedious if you only have one string to your setting-step bow.) To hark back to an earlier remark, if you have Allen Dodson on hurdy-gurdy for Jaque Latin (or Jon Berger and/or Shira Kammen getting a harsh drone on fiddle), you've really got something. -- Alan (who probably won't be posting much between now and Monday, since BACDS Fall Weekend will take up all his time) =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:47:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:47:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Punxeguda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Musica ficta To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <25.bf03e13.2717b58d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/12/2000 11:47:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DavBarnert-AT- aol.com writes: > > I agree with Orly. Duck the ficta, Jon. > Oh dear. Remember David Goldstein's limmerick on that topic? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:49:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:36:28 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary F#'s To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010121401_MC2-B6B9-F37A-AT- compuserve.com> >thanks to all who took up the question of the F#s in AA! It's been >interesting and educational. And reminded me how easy it is to make >assumptions about printed music. > >I encountered AA before it appeared in Barnes II, with the music supplied >by another musician (Susan Kevra, who got it from someone else, who... >etc). (It not only had no F#s, but the B part of the tune was slightly >different from the one subsequently published by Peter.) I personally prefer to start with F#s, and only as the dancers get down and dirty to "modulate" [become modal!] to F nats. Gene's note about the Phalese "parts" to this being drones also accords with my feeling for it -- I just _love_ to drone out those Gs or Ds on the concertina as we get to the last repeat or two of the tune. Michael ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:36:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:16:16 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tea Dance this Sunday (Boston, MA) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <39E57EB5.2B8-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk> For those of you close enough to attend, I am running an 1890s Tea Dance this coming Sunday, the 15th, at The First Unitarian Society of Newton, 1320 Washington Street, West Newton, MA, from 2-5 in the afternoon. Recorded music. Live instruction. Fresh Tea. Patri Pugliese will be teaching popular ballroom dances of the period, such as waltz, polka, schottische, and the maligned but still elegant Contra Dance. Refreshments will be plentiful and delicious. Admission is $5. Costuming: period daywear is ideal and welcomed but unnecessary; long skirts for ladies, no shorts, no T-shirts, and you'll be fine. More info, details, sartorial advice, may be had by calling me at (617) YOG-SOTH, or by sending me email. --Michael Bergman p.s. In November, on the 4th, there will be a proper ball, with live musicians and *really* fancy refreshments, at the Saugus Town Hall, a period building that's been lovingly restored. The same dances will be done at the ball as at the Tea Dance, so the Tea Dance is a great opportunity to get ready for the ball. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:35:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:44:52 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Subject: Dancing Masters To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is a wonderful effort by CDSS. I've been a member for years but had no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online. The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom Companion" - see http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the Playford editions, since it does include other European texts. It includes several resources well-known to English Country dancers, including Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures; whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson, dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps & manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions, all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen ... & by ye author ..., 1710 and many other texts by Feuillet. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 03:41:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <20001006065338.26484.qmail-AT- web3303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- S2LINEN-AT- aol.com wrote: > Roger Diggle wrote: > > << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly > unruly. I also believe that it's possible to have lively > contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the > line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the > sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that > difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the > difficulty can be traced to poor leadership. (I can go on > about this, and sometimes do.) >> > > Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can > injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. > elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" > dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give > a reminder and/or maybe the caller will reverse the > lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to > experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as > being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's > [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added > delight! > Sandra I couldn't agree more with what Roger says, and Sandra, I think that "antics" is probably the more correct term unless you want to call it "lack of respect" for those who are trying to share the dance floor. Sometimes I am tempted to be downright rude back to these people. It's just as disrespectful as the people who drive down the street with the bass on their stereo booming so loud that it rattles my windows for a full minute after they pass (well, it seems like that long) and it seems to be a general symbol of our "me, me, me" society. There I go generalizing again, but rudeness does seem to be quite prevalent. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:48:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:47:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary F#'s To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6b.adee9da.271888ac-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Gene wrote: >The tune for AA comes from Pierre Phalese's "Antwerpener >Tanzbuch" of 1583, where it is called an "Ungaresca."... Wow! Jay wrote that?! I thought Jay Ungar's tunes only went back as far as the American Civil War. [OK, I'll stop now.] ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:05:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:09:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jay Ungar's contributions (was Ashford Anniversary F#'s) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001013160950.20259.qmail-AT- web1611.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- DavBarnert-AT- aol.com wrote: > Gene wrote: > > >The tune for AA comes from Pierre Phalese's "Antwerpener > >Tanzbuch" of 1583, where it is called an "Ungaresca."... > > Wow! Jay wrote that?! I thought Jay Ungar's tunes only went > back as far as the American Civil War. What, you didn't know that he ghost-wrote the famous "Chopin's Farewell"? ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:20:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #829 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/13/00 10:02:14 AM, gmurrow-AT- juno.com writes: >As Frank Attanasio >said when proofreading, "...sounds like something that would be banned >in >Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama and 12 other states." > yeah, and Frank oughta know. Nilos ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:20:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:20:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oiled and dangerous To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2d.227ad66.271a989d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/13/00 10:02:14 AM, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:05 -0400 (EDT) >From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com >Subject: Re: Oiled and dangerous >Message-ID: <96.ac3acfb.27173681-AT- aol.com> > >Nilos wrote- > > >And let us not forget that delightful dance "Fentergarlick".... > >That's what I love about Nilos. She'll find a way to add garlic >to _anyhing_. > What a perfect opening, thank you, Dave. This is off-topic, but I'll keep it short. So, to those on this list who frequent Pinewoods.... If we happened to want to put together a Pinewoods cookbook, what dishes would you wish to see included in it? No doubt everyone will be grateful if you reply off the list, so pray send opinions to or thanks! Nilos ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:02:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:01:40 -0700 From: Bruce Bressette Subject: Reports on British Columbia Forest Companies To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <001901c03779$9eea4e60$0e554518-AT- capg1.bc.wave.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All: check out the updated reports http://www.bcforestry.com they are on the bottom of the front page ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:30:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing and dining (was Re: Oiled and dangerous To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001016143034.17954.qmail-AT- web1610.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Tideswell-AT- aol.com wrote: > This is off-topic, but I'll keep it short. > > So, to those on this list who frequent Pinewoods.... > If we happened to want to put together a Pinewoods cookbook, what > dishes would you wish to see included in it? I don't see this as off-topic at all. In "A Room of One's Own," Virginia Woolf pointed out that it is impossible to engage in great conversation unless one has dined well first. I would argue that it is equally impossible to dance greatly without dining well first (after all, dance is a form of conversation). And I can't think of anyone who has done more in that respect to inspire greatness on the dance floor than Nilos. Wine-berry sauce. ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:31:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:40:10 -0400 From: Country Dance and Song Society Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: CDSS Job Opening To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.2.1.20001016122850.00a3f150-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 10/16/00 Dear Friends of CDSS: We are seeking a new employee and would appreciate your help in passing on this announcement to interested individuals. Thanks for your help! Linda Henry Country Dance and Song Society CDSS SEEKING NEW FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE Are you looking for an interesting and varied job in financial and accounting systems management? The Country Dance and Song Society (CDSS) is looking for you. About us: CDSS is a small and growing nonprofit folk arts and education association with annual revenues of just under $1m. We have an effective governing board, well-run departments, and a history of retaining long-term staff. We are creating this new position to help us deal with recent and projected growth. About you: You have experience in managing financial information and computerized accounting systems. It would be helpful if you also have experience with database use and design, word processing, and the integration of IBM-compatible PC systems. Your experience with QuickBooks, FoxPro, Access, Excel, and Word or WordPerfect is a plus. You have excellent interpersonal, organizational, and management skills and are self-motivated to get the job done. You work well both on your own and as part of a team. You'll be responsible for managing projects such as migrating from a manual to a computerized inventory management system, and supervising the redesign of our database and its interface with accounting systems and software. You'll also manage the process of improving our internet access and email systems, and help with the selection and implementation of training for enhanced staff computer skills. Your work will include supervision of accounting and financial systems; preparation of financial reports; supervision of payroll and staff benefits; development of forecasting methods and budgeting; supervision of database development; and management of major equipment and furniture purchasing. Your work will sometimes include supervision of work done by outside consultants and in-house staff. You'll report directly to Brad Foster, the Executive and Artistic Director of CDSS. We provide a competitive nonprofit-level salary and a benefits package which includes health, disability, pension, holidays, vacation and sick days. To apply: Please send us your cover letter and resume which includes your name and contact information (address/phone/email). We also need a list of three to five current references with their contact information. Please send your information right away; we are soliciting applications through December 1st, and we may schedule some interviews before that date. We expect that work will start in early January, 2001. Send your cover letter, resume and references to: Linda Henry Country Dance and Song Society PO Box 338 Haydenville, MA 01039 If you have questions, or would like a more detailed job description, call Linda at 413-268-7426 x105 or send email to linda-AT- cdss.org We're looking forward to hearing from you. Linda Henry, Country Dance and Song Society PO Box 338/132 Main St, Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 Phone: 413-268-7426 x105 Fax:413-268-7471 http://www.cdss.org linda-AT- cdss.org office-AT- cdss.org Country Dance and Song Society PO Box 338/132 Main St, Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 Phone: 413-268-7426 Fax:413-268-7471 http://www.cdss.org office-AT- cdss.org sales-AT- cdss.org camp-AT- cdss.org ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:39:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:39:13 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing and dining (was Re: Oiled and dangerous To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <42.bffaa34.271ca551-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/16/00 10:31:58 AM, barbararuth-AT- rocketmail.com writes: << I would argue that it is equally impossible to dance greatly without dining well first >> Agreed, except I prefer to dance first & then eat greatly. "...the way in which meals are enjoyed is very important to the happiness of life." * Brillat-Savarin, from The Physiology of Taste,1825 The September ad for my restaurant in Chatham NY, the Blue Plate. (Shameless commerce.) I could amend that to read "the way dance is enjoyed..." etc. Judy Grunberg ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:35:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:41:49 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01c038bd$baaabd20$35eaadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I just want to thank all the hard-working people who put on the BACDS Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon. I had a great time, and was agreeably sore all over on Monday. One of my favorite moments: We're out at the picnic tables with Allen Dodson waxing passionate about playing for morris, and suddenly out of the woods comes this line of kids. The first one's carrying a big forked branch about three times his size. The second is carrying one only slightly smaller. The third is dragging what appears to be a small tree trunk about twelve feet long. There must have been ten children, all with pieces of wood bigger than they were. Allen gamely kept on talking, but round about child number ten even he broke off and said "WHAT are they doing?" I don't think anyone ever found out. Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:05:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:05:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JVGPUJRLEG8ZPBVB-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Marian wrote: I just want to thank all the hard-working people who put on the BACDS Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon. I had a great time, and was agreeably sore all over on Monday. Thanks for the kind words. As co-manager, I definitely like to know that attendees had a great time. One of my favorite moments: We're out at the picnic tables with Allen Dodson waxing passionate about playing for morris, and suddenly out of the woods comes this line of kids. The first one's carrying a big forked branch about three times his size. The second is carrying one only slightly smaller. The third is dragging what appears to be a small tree trunk about twelve feet long. There must have been ten children, all with pieces of wood bigger than they were. Allen gamely kept on talking, but round about child number ten even he broke off and said "WHAT are they doing?" I don't think anyone ever found out. They were building a pirate fort, of course. They weren't allowed to break anything off of trees, so they had to scrounge all over camp to find enough naturally fallen wood. My personal favorite thing was encountering the set of 15-and-under longsword dancers outside the dance hall on Sunday morning. One of them was saying "I suggest we practice the figures we *don't* already know." -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:13:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:43:26 -0400 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A few years ago (though I could have sworn it was just this past summer), Vicky Bestock wrote: >With all the discussion on Hudson Barn-- I remember learning Hudson Barn >from Jackie Schwab (co-author of the dance) with mirror back-to-backs in >the B section, but most callers have been calling it with right shoulder >back-to backs for both the men and the women, which means that the men had >to reverse direction for the next move instead of continuing to flow into >it. > >When I programmed it for our ball last year, I called Jackie to make sure >I had it right, since I was encountering the other version so often. She >said yes, she created the dance with mirror back-to-backs but in writing it >down she neglected to mention this. Therefore people who learned the dance >from people got it right, and people who learned it from descriptions used >right shoulder back to backs, which is what you'd do if not told otherwise. I'm preparing to try Hudson barn with our group but I'm still unclear about the back-to-backs. I plan to teach it with mirror back-to-backs. My question is who does the left shoulder back-to-back and who does the right shoulder back-to-back? In my own mind, I can see dancing the turns with the same hand as one starts the back to back -- or I can equally see dancing the turns with the same hand as one finishes the back to back. Any enlightenment would be appreciated. Thanks, Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 06:45:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:44:59 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, it has to lead into the half fig 8, so the ones always go through the middle. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:21:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <21.24a423d.271f0bc4-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/18/0 1:46:17 PM, you wrote: <> I think that's backwards (although I'm sitting at my desk in my office, not moving on a dance floor to be more certain). The 1s start the BTB below the 2s, improper. If the 2s split the 1s, then follow that with men turning (half) by the left, women by the right, it leads without reversing direction into the 1/2 figure 8 down for the 1s, who then lead down the center. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:52:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:52:47 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Right. Sorry. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:40:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:39:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001018163957.16853.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Marian Phillips wrote: > I just want to thank all the hard-working people who put on > the BACDS Fall Weekend at Monte Toyon. I had a great time, and >was agreeably sore all over on Monday. > > One of my favorite moments: We're out at the picnic tables > with Allen Dodson waxing passionate about playing for morris, > and suddenly out of the woods comes this line of kids. The > first one's carrying a big forked branch about three times his > size. The second is carrying one only slightly smaller. The > third is dragging what appears to be a small tree trunk about > twelve feet long. > > There must have been ten children, all with pieces of wood > bigger than they were. Allen gamely kept on talking, but round > about child number ten even he broke off and said "WHAT are > they doing?" I don't think anyone ever found out. > Abbott's Bromley maybe?? They just couldn't find any antlers? Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:20:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:44:59 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, it has to lead into the half fig 8, so the ones always go through the middle. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:29:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:09:41 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001019.122303.-1015315.4.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The issue about the back-to-back's isn't the figure that follows, but what comes before. The 2nd corner people (1st wo., 2nd man) are doing their cross-hand turn 1 1/2 times coming out of the RH star. This flows *beautifully* into a standard right-shoulder back-to-back with neighbor. The subsequent transition from a back-to-back into the "handy hand" turns is easy, regardless of which way the back-to-back is done; after all, a back-to-back itself involves a change of direction. Once you've shifted your weight, it really doesn't matter which way you head off. So that shouldn't influence the decision. At Pinewoods English Week 2 years ago, I called Hudson Barn with the allegedly "original" mirror b2b's just for fun. I was immediately and firmly corrected by Chris Walker, the undisputed archivist and conscience of the Boston Centre. Here's a case where, whatever the choreographer's original intent, the dance community "folk process" has revised the dance slightly-- in this case to smooth out a rough spot and add a great "magic moment" to an already magical dance. Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Musician and Caller who lives near the Hudson River (does that count?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:49:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:48:58 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <84.c398294.27207ffa-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 10/19/0 4:30:32 PM, you wrote: <> I am happy to do this wonderful dance either way, my current preference being with the mirror BTBs, though I do see the point of the R-shoulder BTBs. BUT, why would one accept as *authoritative* the "folk processed" version of a dance as opposed to the author's original intent? Either there is an official version (and you could argue all day whether that would be Jacqueline's or Chris Walker's) or there isn't. Otherwise I would, as with pretty much all other dances in the ECD repertoire, accept doing it whichever way a given local community does it or the way a given caller teaches it. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:56:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:54:00 +0100 From: Ron Hawkins Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001e01c03a62$87b70b20$4916883e-AT- wmnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20001019.122303.-1015315.4.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> Forgive me if this is a crass question from a newcomer to the list, but where can I find the notation and music for Hudson Barn? (book, online archive, whatever) Thanks Ron Hawkins Stratford-on-Avon England ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:07:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:07:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JVJGAZ4H7S8ZKRST-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ron wrote: Forgive me if this is a crass question from a newcomer to the list, but where can I find the notation and music for Hudson Barn? (book, online archive, whatever) (I know Ron's name from the eceilidh list. Welcome, Ron!) Hudson Barn is done to a version of "Dance to your Daddy", although it sure doesn't sound one bit like the version on _Northumberland Forever_ by the High Level Ranters. The dots can be found in the Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes; dots and dance description in _Hudson Barn_, published by the CDS Boston Centre, along with a dozen or so other nice dances. This may be available from the Country Dance & Song Society; check http://www.cdss.org/sales to see what they've got. No idea if anybody sells this pamphlet in the UK. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:28:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:39:17 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39EFF6A4.478260B-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Eric Arnold wrote: > At a weekend of mixed English Country and contra dancing in Ann Arbor just > over, the up-and-coming young caller of both ECD and contra from Columbus, > OH, Joseph Pimentel, who clearly has a natural aptitude for the role and > who usually gives credit where it is due, called a triple minor contra > which was new to me, and while he said it was a "traditional" dance which > had been modified to get some swings in (!), he didn't give the name until > I asked, which was just before he was about to tell the band to start. > (It was "The Fly" as I recall.) The figures seemed a bit dorky in the > walkthrough, but as we began to get the shape of it and learned how to get > the most out of it, it was actually great fun, and a wonderful addition to > the program. > > I do wonder about his source, and what the shape was before the > interpolated swings... 'Fly" can be found in Ralph Page's "Elegant collection of squares and contras", published by the Lloyd Shaw Foundation in the 1980s. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:15:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:13:12 +0100 From: Ron Hawkins Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003f01c03a75$fc8f2c80$4916883e-AT- wmnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JVJGAZ4H7S8ZKRST-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> > (I know Ron's name from the eceilidh list. Welcome, Ron!) > > Hudson Barn is ... [snip] > -- Alan Thanks for the info and the welcome, Alan. Ron H ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:13:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:13:31 -0400 (EDT) From: CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2f.c07e5d3.272182db-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am a newcomer to the list and need some help. I am a high school English teacher and my students would love to learn dances of the English literature periods that we are studying, but I have no idea how and where to begin. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks, Randy Baker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:00:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:00:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001020130008.11138.qmail-AT- web1606.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT If you tell us where you are from, someone on the list can undoubtedly point you to the nearest English Dance group. Any such group would be delighted to welcome a group of interested new dancers. There is also a national organization that you will see mentioned here a lot, Country Dance and Song Society, or CDSS. You can go to their website www.cdss.org, and find a list of affilated organizations listed by state. Barbara --- CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com wrote: > I am a newcomer to the list and need some help. I am a high school > English > teacher and my students would love to learn dances of the English > literature > periods that we are studying, but I have no idea how and where to > begin. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Randy Baker ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:53:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:54:15 -0700 From: Suzanne Frank Subject: newcomer To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003101c03aa5$9eb8cd20$75c0b3d1-AT- rjiredff> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <2f.c07e5d3.272182db-AT- aol.com> Where are you located? You may be close to resources? Suzanne ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 4:13 AM Subject: (no subject) > I am a newcomer to the list and need some help. I am a high school English > teacher and my students would love to learn dances of the English literature > periods that we are studying, but I have no idea how and where to begin. > Does anyone have any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Randy Baker > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:14:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:14:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 20 Oct 2000 CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com wrote: > I am a newcomer to the list and need some help. I am a high school English > teacher and my students would love to learn dances of the English literature > periods that we are studying, but I have no idea how and where to begin. > Does anyone have any suggestions? If you can determine, from the suggestions that Barbara Ruth (hi Barbara!) made, if there is a group near you that does English Country Dancing, you could see if they have a leader who would be willing to come to your class a time or two to teach some appropriate dances. They could also provide appropriate music, by bringing musicians who are used to playing for English Country Dancing or suitable recordings. That would be far more efficient than your trying to learn enough to teach them in the time available, and would probably also work better than bringing them all to an on-going event. If the period you are studying includes Jane Austen, then there are some nice examples in some of the recent movies that can give a good idea of what it's like, and can whet the appetite a bit. It's possible to get the instructions & music for a number of the dances done in these films and that might make it a bit easier for some. There are web sites which discuss this in some detail -- see, for example: http://www.lll.hawaii.edu/esl/bley-vroman/contra/dances/austen.html or http://www.pemberley.com/ for some examples; you can follow links from these to a number of other sites that might be helpful. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:50:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:50:18 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010201450.e9KEoIt06713-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com writes: > > I am a newcomer to the list and need some help. I am a high school English > teacher and my students would love to learn dances of the English literature > periods that we are studying, but I have no idea how and where to begin. > Does anyone have any suggestions? If you tell us where you are located we can help you find a near-by group who could help you out. A couple of years ago our group had about 30 high school students come to a dance to learn a bit about the dances they were reading about in a Jane Austen book. They all seemed to have a good time and (hopefully) learned something. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:04:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:04:34 -0400 (EDT) From: CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: newcomer To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry that I failed to identify my location. I live in Oklahoma City, OK. I have been told that the Midwest is somewhat limited in organizations and resources. However, I would be willing to travel to talk or obtain information for my classes. Thanks for the wonderful and immediate responses to my initial query. What a wonderful organization! Randy Baker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:11:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:11:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: organized To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001020161118.5614.qmail-AT- web1605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com wrote: > Thanks for the wonderful and immediate > responses to my initial query. What a wonderful organization! CDSS is the organization (at least on this side of the pond) that most of us belong to. I would say that here on the list we're more of a disorganization (I mean that in the best sense of the word of course). ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:01:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:01:37 +0100 From: francis2 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001e01c03ab7$69a01960$278e183e-AT- oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JVJGAZ4H7S8ZKRST-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Perhaps you would be good enough to put the details on the screen for us who may not be able to obtain a copy, Subject to any permissions of course, Regards francis2 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn > Ron wrote: > > Forgive me if this is a crass question from a newcomer to the list, but > where can I find the notation and music for Hudson Barn? (book, online > archive, whatever) > > (I know Ron's name from the eceilidh list. Welcome, Ron!) > > Hudson Barn is done to a version of "Dance to your Daddy", although it sure > doesn't sound one bit like the version on _Northumberland Forever_ by the > High Level Ranters. The dots can be found in the Peter Barnes book of > country dance tunes; dots and dance description in _Hudson Barn_, published > by the CDS Boston Centre, along with a dozen or so other nice dances. > > This may be available from the Country Dance & Song Society; check > http://www.cdss.org/sales to see what they've got. No idea if anybody > sells this pamphlet in the UK. > > -- Alan > > > ============================================================================ === > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 > ============================================================================ === > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:04:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:34:10 -0400 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'd like to thank everyone for their replies to my original query. However, the point of my original question seemed to get missed along the way. As Gene Murrow noted, it's not at issue how the turns lead into the half figure of eight. And yes, the right hand turns do lead most naturally into right shouldered back-to-backs. However, if one is going to do mirror back-to-backs then either way works equally well. So, I guess I'm still wondering what is the accepted way to do mirror back-to backs in Hudson Barn? Is it the men or the women who do a left-shouldered back-to-back? One side has to switch but no one has yet told me which one. Or does it really matter as long as they are mirror back-to-backs? Gene's answer also leads me to wonder whether I should abandon my original intention to do the dance with mirror back to backs. Which version is more usual now - right shoulder or mirror? And in response to the query about instructions, I will confess that I'm working from the Strafford ball synopsis instructions (http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/~cgl/ball/1998.instr.html). If I remember correctly, it was mentioned on this list a while ago that Hudson Barn is o ut of print and will be republished (soon?) by Boston Centre CDSS. I have one other question. The Strafford Ball instructions call for 2c couple to finish with a one-and-a-half turn. That seems a lot of turn for two bars. Does that work? Or is a half turn more common? Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:00:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:02:04 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: newcomer To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <002001c03ac8$3e31dfa0$5698adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <> The Midwest isn't all that limited, but the ECD groups tend to be concentrated in the upper Midwest (Illinois, Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin) rather than the southern part of the territory. The nearest group to you may be in Arkansas or possibly Texas, but check CDSS rather than taking my word for it. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:29:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:38:27 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001020163827.007f6100-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Martin, I recommend keeping the dance the way Jacqueline composed it, so the men can experience the same organic connectedness and flow as the women. This means mirror back to backs, twos (above) splitting the ones, flowing into mirror hand turns halfway (ones again up the outside, women R hand, men L) putting the ones in position for half figure eights downt hrough the twos. >As Gene Murrow noted, it's not at issue how the turns lead into the half >figure of eight. And yes, the right hand turns do lead most naturally into >right shouldered back-to-backs. I don't know where you got those instructions, but they are wrong. Its the back to backs that lead into the handy-hand turns, and not vice versa. >However, if one is going to do mirror back-to-backs then either way works >equally well. Not true! YOu have to change direction if you do it wrong, and the women have to change direction twice. This destroys the flow that Jacqueline created. The correct sequence coming out of the crossed hold two hand turn by second corners at the end of A2 is B1 Twos (above) split the ones (below) for a mirror back to back. (W R sh., Men L sh) flowing seamlessly into mirror hand turns, women R men L halfway. Ones are now above, in position for the 1/2 figure 8 down through the 2's So, I guess I'm still wondering what is the accepted way to >do mirror back-to backs in Hudson Barn? Is it the men or the women who do >a left-shouldered back-to-back? One side has to switch but no one has yet >told me which one. No one has to switch really. The preceding move is a two hand turn by the second corners. Then come the mirror back to backs. Man two has to resist the urge to move out after his two hand turn since he'll be starting down the center. For lady one, the momentum from the two hand turn propels her into the back to back and everything else is a continuous flow with no direction dhanges for either men or women. >Or does it really matter as long as they are mirror back-to-backs? Well, only if you want a nice dance and not an awkward one. The way the dance was composed, twos split ones, W use R sh and hand, men left. >Gene's answer also leads me to wonder whether I should abandon my original >intention to do the dance with mirror back to backs. Which version is more >usual now - right shoulder or mirror? I suspect right shoulder back to backs are becoming more USUAL as fewer people are learning the dance from people who learned it from the composer, and more people are learning it from notes. Jacqueline admits she forgot to mention that the back to backs are mirror image when she notated it. Those who learned the dance from the composer, or some other human source, still do the mirror back to backs. I like them a whole lot better. >I have one other question. The Strafford Ball instructions call for 2c >couple to finish with a one-and-a-half turn. That seems a lot of turn for >two bars. Does that work? Or is a half turn more common? Here's where learning it from humans really helps. It would be much if you used 2 bars. But usually you'd use three. The ones cast for two bars and two hand turn for two bars but the twos only need ONE bar to move up and have three bars to complete the turns 1 1/2. If you cut the turns to half turns, you lose the momentum and can't flow into the cirlce four from the two hand turns-- one of the dance's magic moments. I realize I'm sounding quite opinionated about this. Please forgive the tone, but I think this is one of the most organically flowing dances in the repertory, and I'd hate to see it altered to remove its hypnotic quality of perpetual motion. Victoria Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:06:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:16:50 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.20001020195722.00bbc6c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 04:38 PM 10/20/00 -0700, Vicky Bestock wrote: >No one has to switch really. The preceding move is a two hand turn by the >second corners. Then come the mirror back to backs. Man two has to resist >the urge to move out after his two hand turn since he'll be starting down >the center. For lady one, the momentum from the two hand turn propels her >into the back to back and everything else is a continuous flow with no >direction dhanges for either men or women. Much as I hate to disagree with Vicky, whose postings I regularly save, here, pragmatically, I side with Gene. All too often when I dance as 1st woman, I encounter inexperienced corners who get into the cross-hand turn late, hurry the move, and then have too much momentum going to move smoothly [or even safely!] into the mirror back-to-back. The 1st corners have the joy of flowing seamlessly from their two-hand turn into the circle right. It makes sense to me for the 2nd corners likewise to flow seamlessly from their two-hand turn into a right-shoulder back-to-back. Hugs, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:28:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:28:32 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Question on Hudson barn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Much as I hate to disagree with Vicky, whose postings I regularly save, >here, pragmatically, I side with Gene. All too often when I dance as 1st >woman, I encounter inexperienced corners who get into the cross-hand turn >late, hurry the move, and then have too much momentum going to move >smoothly [or even safely!] into the mirror back-to-back. Too much momentum to even remember where to drop out for the b-to-b. The basic problem with the dance. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html landscape at: http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:41:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:33:18 -0400 From: "Samuel Green (WestRCtr-AT- crocker.com)" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000201c03b96$1ebcd980$c866ba8c-AT- sammy> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT set digest ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:39:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:44:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Haven Ball To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001021224422.567.qmail-AT- web1604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Fellow ECDers, I take great pleasure in announcing the 3rd annual New Haven ECD Ball, "the Elm City Assembly," which will take place Saturday, January 27, 2001. Mistress of Ceremonies for the event will be Ms. Robin Hayden and music will be provided by The Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron, Grace Feldman and Margaret Ann Martin. There will be no attempt at gender balancing, as we expect all dancers to be sufficiently balanced as is. Anyone who does not feel adequately gender balanced is urged to seek professional services elsewhere. All others are urged to register promptly - later registrants may be wait-listed. A copy of the registration form is available at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/elm.city.ball.2001.html. Those who wish to are welcome to download the form and take copies to their local dances. I will also be happy to email a form as an attachment if anyone prefers, and contacts me off-list. I look forward to seeing many of you there. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:39:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Haven Ball To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001021223917.18506.qmail-AT- web1602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Fellow ECDers, I take great pleasure in announcing the 3rd annual New Haven ECD Ball, "the Elm City Assembly," which will take place Saturday, January 27, 2001. Mistress of Ceremonies for the event will be Ms. Robin Hayden and music will be provided by The Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron, Grace Feldman and Margaret Ann Martin. There will be no attempt at gender balancing, as we expect all dancers to be sufficiently balanced as is. Anyone who does not feel adequately gender balanced is urged to seek professional services elsewhere. All others are urged to register promptly - later registrants may be wait-listed. A copy of the registration form is available at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/elm.city.ball.2001.html. Those who wish to are welcome to download the form and take copies to their local dances. I will also be happy to email a form as an attachment if anyone prefers, and contacts me off-list. I look forward to seeing many of you there. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:40:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:40:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Haven Ball To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001021224026.7478.qmail-AT- web1603.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Fellow ECDers, I take great pleasure in announcing the 3rd annual New Haven ECD Ball, "the Elm City Assembly," which will take place Saturday, January 27, 2001. Mistress of Ceremonies for the event will be Ms. Robin Hayden and music will be provided by The Playford Consort: Marshall Barron, Phoebe Barron, Grace Feldman and Margaret Ann Martin. There will be no attempt at gender balancing, as we expect all dancers to be sufficiently balanced as is. Anyone who does not feel adequately gender balanced is urged to seek professional services elsewhere. All others are urged to register promptly - later registrants may be wait-listed. A copy of the registration form is available at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/elm.city.ball.2001.html. Those who wish to are welcome to download the form and take copies to their local dances. I will also be happy to email a form as an attachment if anyone prefers, and contacts me off-list. I look forward to seeing many of you there. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:44:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:44:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Haven Ball revisited To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001021224431.18865.qmail-AT- web1602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Barbara Ruth wrote: > Fellow ECDers, > > I take great pleasure in announcing the 3rd annual New Haven ECD > Ball, "the Elm City Assembly," which will take place Saturday, > January 27, 2001. So much pleasure that I sent the message twice! Sorry about that folks. B. ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:53:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:12:45 -0400 From: "Patricia J. Evans" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Philadelphia Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001022.004544.-3683421.0.pjevans3-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT to Sandy Rotenberg of Germantown Country Dancers: Could you send me some information on the Philadelphia Ball in early December? I am interested in signing up to attend the ball. My daughter has just entered Swarthmore as a freshman, and I would like to make a weekend of visiting her and attending the ball. I am from the Albany, NY area. Thank you, Patricia Evans pjevans3 -AT- juno.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:37:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:10:17 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Shameless, boot-licking request for off-topic help To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20001023.221032.-461683.1.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Since so many of you on the ECD list are computer savvy, how do you set the Juno browser so that it won't pick up those numerous (& illiterate) requests to buy/sell/refinance stuff from one's e-mail? If anyone is so moved to cast bread upon the waters, please reply to me off-list & in return I will NOT 1. put you on my mailing list 2. send you exciting new purchasing/refinancing announcements 3. tell you that you can get a univrsty (sic) degree from the Republic of Never-nevel land with only 3 payments of 599.99 each! Yippee. Ever so grateful, Allison (the small and meek) from Pittsburgh ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:50:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:57:22 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: newcomer To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01c03e26$ea2ef840$87ecadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Randy Baker sez: >>I live in Oklahoma City, OK<< According to my CDSS group directory, there's a group in OK City called Scissortail Traditional Dance Society. Contacts: John Rapp, 405-720-7029; or Cia Campbell, 405-329-8848, or email: scotchiris-AT- aol.com Hope that helps. Marian Phillips San Francisco ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:55:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:55:12 -0400 (EDT) From: CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: newcomer To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <28.c59a60b.27279780-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks for your assistance. I will contact them. Warmest regards, Randy Baker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:29:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: CEBristow-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Reply to Oklahoma City Inquiry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: quigley02-AT- aol.com, CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is a reply to Randy Baker in Oklahoma City. The North Texas Traditional Dance Society (NTTDS)is sponsoring an English Country Dance in Irving, Texas on Saturday, October 28. Irving is between Dallas and Fort Worth. The NTTDS website includes schedule and location information. http://www.geocities.com/nttds/ Martha Quigley will lead the dance. You may call her for more information at (214) 328-1938. You also may call me at (214) 827-9843. We look forward to meeting you! Charlotte Bristow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:09:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:09:36 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010251909.e9PJ9ak01790-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm working on reconstructing an American dance from the 1820's set to the tune "Irish Washerwoman". As you might expect the B part has the 1's go down the set, return and cast off and then do 4 changes of rights and lefts with the 2's. The original instructions make no mention of any stepping, but as I was going through it with the music the music (bars 5 and 6 of the B part) seemed to say to me to have the 1's skip on the way back up the set. Of course, this could just be that I've recently taught Long Odds, where the 1's lead down and then skip back and cast off. Does it seem reasonable to put the skipping in? I'll probably try it and see what the dancers think. Does anyone have any advise on how to figure out whether or not to add skipping, etc. to old dances, and what type (skipping, skip- change, etc.) to use? Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:43:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JVR5DPPQ4I95MR30-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jonathan -- I'm working on reconstructing an American dance from the 1820's set to the tune "Irish Washerwoman". As you might expect the B part has the 1's go down the set, return and cast off and then do 4 changes of rights and lefts with the 2's. The original instructions make no mention of any stepping, but as I was going through it with the music the music (bars 5 and 6 of the B part) seemed to say to me to have the 1's skip on the way back up the set. Of course, this could just be that I've recently taught Long Odds, where the 1's lead down and then skip back and cast off. Does it seem reasonable to put the skipping in? I'll probably try it and see what the dancers think. Does anyone have any advise on how to figure out whether or not to add skipping, etc. to old dances, and what type (skipping, skip- change, etc.) to use? Ignoring for the moment scrupulous dance-historical issues of exactly how it _was_ danced, I advise you to _do what works_, perhaps guided by what other reconstructors have done with dances. Down the middle and back and cast off, four changes of rights and lefts, is an extremely standard late eighteenth century transition. A variant occurs in c. War of 1812 contra dances as modified by almost two centuries of small-town New England practice. If you're reconstructing this as an 'Early American' dance, you're going to take nearly four bars going down the set, a little while to turn, and four bars to go all the way back to where you came from plus casting off to the 2s place. That means you must travel faster coming back than going down, and since running is inelegant, skipping or skip change make perfect sense. (I'd tend to go for skip-change, because (under the name 'chasse') it's the basic traveling step for this period anyway, it phrases very nicely to a jig, and it's easier to keep under control.) "Young Widow" is a nice example of this. If you're reconstructing this as a 'traditional contra', you'd take two bars going down the middle, two bars turning to face up, two bars walking back to 2nd place, and then a two-bar assisted cast around to 2nd place, all walking. I'll reiterate that unless you're going to get into historical reconstruction including footwork, clothing, period music style, etc, the principle of 'do what works' will serve you well. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:08:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:07:54 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010252107.e9PL7tn06542-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes: > > If you're reconstructing this as an 'Early American' dance, you're going to > take nearly four bars going down the set, a little while to turn, and four > bars to go all the way back to where you came from plus casting off to the > 2s place. That means you must travel faster coming back than going down, > and since running is inelegant, skipping or skip change make perfect sense. > (I'd tend to go for skip-change, because (under the name 'chasse') it's the > basic traveling step for this period anyway, it phrases very nicely to > a jig, and it's easier to keep under control.) "Young Widow" is a nice > example of this. Thanks. I'll try skipping and skip-change and see which one seems the most appealing. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:00:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Andersen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD List Message-ID: <20001025220007.23408.qmail-AT- web5203.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Country Dancers of Westchester's Halloween dance party is this Friday, October 27, at the Church in the Highlands on Bryant Ave. in White Plains, NY. Beverly Francis is the caller for the party, which starts at 8pm. The musicians for the party are Larry Wallach on piano; Anne Legene on violin and other instruments; and Gene Murrow on recorders, concertina, and percussion. As always, refreshments at the break. Please bring along some taste treats (no tricks!) to add to the offering. Admission is $12.00. Members of CDW pay $10.00. For out-of-towners visiting New York, White Plains is a 30-minute rail tripon Metro North from Grand Central Terminal. Directions to the Church in the Highlands and other information is at CDW's website. Here's the url. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2225/ Weekly Thursday night workshop dances continue in the weeks following ... November 2 ... Carol Martinez, caller November 9 ... Carol Martinez, caller November 16 ... Fried deMetz Herman, caller Members of the house band that plays for workshop nights are Leah Barkan, George Davis, Sue Polansky, and Stewart Dean with occasional guest musicians. The next dance party is the day after Thanksgiving, Friday, November 24, and features Paul Ross calling. For more information, call Leah at 914/693-5577. Visitors at Thanksgiving time can also attend the Round Hill Country Dancers' Saturday contra-dance event on the 25th featuring a workshop from 4-6pm, brown-bag supper, and dancing from 8-11pm. Here's the Round Hill url. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/9832/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:36:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:36:03 -0400 (EDT) From: CoachRMB50-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Reply to Oklahoma City Inquiry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <83.1fd6505.2728f293-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Charlotte: I will be attending a workshop in Dallas on November 17 and 18. I suppose that I could also come in on Sat, Nov 16, if there was a dance taking place. Let me know if you know of any future plans. Thanks for keeping me in mind. Warmest regards, Randy Baker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:08:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:08:53 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Test - please ignore To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010261908.UAA26227-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Why are you reading this? :) -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:05:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:05:43 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010262005.VAA28597-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > If you're reconstructing this as an 'Early American' dance, you're going to > take nearly four bars going down the set, a little while to turn, and four > bars to go all the way back to where you came from plus casting off to the > 2s place. That means you must travel faster coming back than going down, > and since running is inelegant, skipping or skip change make perfect sense. > (I'd tend to go for skip-change, because (under the name 'chasse') it's the > basic traveling step for this period anyway, it phrases very nicely to > a jig, and it's easier to keep under control.) "Young Widow" is a nice example > of this. > > If you're reconstructing this as a 'traditional contra', you'd take two bars > going down the middle, two bars turning to face up, two bars walking back to > 2nd place, and then a two-bar assisted cast around to 2nd place, all walking. I find this distinction between 'Early American' and 'Contra' very interesting. Without being able to point to anything specific, I have for some time now been teaching 'Authentic English' as "down the middle, back and cast as: slip or lead down for 2 bars, turn single down and out away from each other to face for 2 bars, slip or lead back to place for 2 bars and cast for 2 bars. Is there any specific evidence for the 'Early American' approach set out above (which would tie in somewhat with the way English Country Dance was done in England in some places in the early 20th century where dancers went down for 4 bards, turned and came back to the progressed position)? Conversely, is it possible that the Contra folk have got the "correct" approach through genetically transmitted muscle programming? Michael Barraclough Itinerant C17 and C21 Dancing Master -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:50:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:49:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Re: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JVSOCV43CI95MR30-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mike Barraclough (at last able to post from home) quotes me and writes: I find this distinction between 'Early American' and 'Contra' very interesting. Without being able to point to anything specific, I have for some time now been teaching 'Authentic English' as "down the middle, back and cast as: slip or lead down for 2 bars, turn single down and out away from each other to face for 2 bars, slip or lead back to place for 2 bars and cast for 2 bars. By 'Authentic English' do you mean "historical" (reconstructed from dance manuals) as distinct from "traditional" (collected from people who remembered doing them normally)? I'm guessing you do, but too much reading the eceilidh list makes me dubious of the meaning of 'Authentic' there. Is there any specific evidence for the 'Early American' approach set out above (which would tie in somewhat with the way English Country Dance was done in England in some places in the early 20th century where dancers went down for 4 bards, turned and came back to the progressed position)? I followed the reconstructors who did some specifically 'Early American' reconstructions in the 1970s. I don't know if they have specific evidence for interpreting it that way. They did pay more attention to footwork than Sharp, et al, had done with English dances. My impression was that they produced a reasonable rendition of pan-European country dance in the mid-late 18th century, but I can't back that up. Conversely, is it possible that the Contra folk have got the "correct" approach through genetically transmitted muscle programming? I don't even know what you look like, but I'm pretty sure I can see your tongue almost poking out of your cheek there. I like the Lysenkoist theory of dance history. But to respond as though I thought you were serious, I'd have to say they don't have the correct approach, because there isn't one; they don't have the historic approach, because the style has evolved considerably even in the last twenty years; they do have _a_ correct approach, because it works, and "do what works" is my dictum for this kind of thing. (And what you do for 'Authentic English' works, so it's a correct approach too, as far as I'm concerned.) -- Alan -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:30:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:30:54 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: Re: question about dance reconstruction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200010262330.AAA04272-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston responded to Michael Barraclough (who is now able to respond from home, Swindon in the UK, and via the web wherever he is - Chicago at the moment) > By 'Authentic English' do you mean "historical" (reconstructed from dance > manuals) as distinct from "traditional" (collected from people who remembered > doing them normally)? I'm guessing you do, but too much reading the eceilidh > list makes me dubious of the meaning of 'Authentic' there. Yes, I was trying to refer to "authentic" recreation of English Country Dances as done in the 17/18/19 centuries as opposed to Country Dance as done in England today or 17/18/19 century English Country Dances as done by English or American folk dancers today. The problem with labels is that they are created at a particular time to make a distiction and sooner or later the distinction disappears, eg Rock 'n Roll used not to be "Ballroom", but is now. There are also big differences between the way the (folk) dance market is segmented in the USA and the UK. > I followed the reconstructors who did some specifically 'Early American' > reconstructions in the 1970s. I don't know if they have specific evidence > for interpreting it that way. They did pay more attention to footwork than > Sharp, et al, had done with English dances. My impression was that they > produced a reasonable rendition of pan-European country dance in the > mid-late 18th century, but I can't back that up. My gut feeling is that English Country Dances as done in England, Scotland and America were subject to much the same influences and would have been done in a fairly similar style given similar influences (ie instruments, clothing, footwear, flooring, architecture, social class etc). The big difference appears to have been, as you identified in your earlier response, that the B musics were danced to an ever more consistent formula: Down the middle and back, stars (England), Down the middle and back, poussette/dance around (Scotland) and Down the middle and back, rights and lefts (America). The same French baroque dance style continued to influence America, England and Scotland well into the 19th Century and it seems likely that movement/steps learned for "formal" dances (minuet, gavotte, waltz, etc) would automatically be used by dancers with the music doing the instruction rather than the dance notation (book) or dancing master/caller. [When did you see a book teaching you how to walk - there is almost certainly much that was left out of the books of dance notation because it was assumed to be known.] > I don't even know what you look like, but I'm pretty sure I can see your > tongue almost poking out of your cheek there. This was in reference to my suggestion that Contra Dancers may have inherited muscle memory! Actually, I am half (but only half) serious. I suspect that the transmission method for country dance was being dragged through the dance at a very early age - I have seen it done very successfully with 4/5 year olds. With no instruction, children learn the architecture and the choreographic units of the dance very quickly through doing. Given a set of 10 or so couples who know what they are doing then the set can easily accomodate 2 or 3 young children provided they are each dancing with adults and not with each other. It is important to remember that things changed very slowly in earlier generations (Tom Flett shows very clearly how new dance forms from London had still failed to reach some of the Islands of Scotland almost 100 yrs later). It is only with the advent of Tin Pan Alley that music started changing rapidly. Descriptions of how people danced in 1900 or the memories collected from people who were dancing in 1850 are therefore good pointers for performance from (say) 1800 onwards, and conceivably earlier. Michael Barraclough Itinerant C17 & C21 Dancing Master ***** It is probably too late to book as I think it is already sold out, but for those who may be attending - be warned - I will be taking the English Dance session at this years Breaking Up Thanksgiving Folk Festival in Chicago. -- Do you VisualMail? Grab a copy of the best WebMailer right now! http://www.mintersoft.com/visualmail ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:42:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tin Pan minstrels and collected memories To: ecd-digest-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mr Barraclough said: "It is important to remember that things changed very slowly in earlier generations (Tom Flett shows very clearly how new dance forms from London had still failed to reach some of the Islands of Scotland almost 100 yrs later). It is only with the advent of Tin Pan Alley that music started changing rapidly. Descriptions of how people danced in 1900 or the memories collected from people who were dancing in 1850 are therefore good pointers for performance from (say) 1800 onwards, and conceivably earlier." **** Speaking as an historian, let me say that the first sentence "things changed slowly..." is as dubious in the dance and music world as it is for other fields of human activity. It doesn't bear scrutiny. Likewise the 2d sentence, placing "Tin Pan Alley" -- usually refers to the first two decades of the 20th c., I think -- as the time when music/ dance changed. Think of how popular minstrel music was in the mid-19th c. in Britain as in America, or music hall. Think how "ballroom" practices changed radically through the 19th c. 3d sentence: this is extremely dubious. Memory is a messy thing. Also, it appears that generations are being assumed = 50 years, which really isn't the case. Quick test: can you report accurately what your great grandparents did when they were young? I can't; I barely know their names. I also recall Mike Heaney's research on Cotswold Morris dancers/ dancing: he found (the article is called "Disentangling the Wychwood Morrises," I think) that dancers' recollections were often off the mark by entire decades as to what they themselves had done. I doubt ECD'ers were any less muddled. Also, "memories collected..." think about that phrase. It introduces yet another person into the equation, let us say named C*c*l though it doesn't have to be him, with a whole new set of prejudices, preconceptions etc., processing someone else's memories. At the very least, memories are not waiting out there to be harvested cleanly and neatly by an unbiased "collector," which is implied in many writer's views; memories (again, at the very least) are continuously reworked by the people concerned. Oh well, so much for history. I vote for Mr Winston's comment: does it [the dance "reconstruction"] work? which is exactly analogous to John Forrest's views on the history of morris and present day morris: is it worth watching? Steve Corrsin _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:54:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:31:53 +0100 From: Ron Hawkins Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: What does Mike Barraclough look like? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001101c0402b$0985a9e0$f5a4bbd4-AT- wmnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010262330.AAA04272-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> Alan said: (of Mike Barraclough) > > I don't even know what you look like, but I'm pretty sure I can see your > > tongue almost poking out of your cheek there. > I was going to say there is a good picture of him on http://www.wmnt.freeserve.co.uk/eceilidh/#b but in fact it looks like he is swallowing a microphone so maybe it won't help much (can't see enough cheek to tell if there is tongue in it). Ron H ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:36:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:43:41 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: a humongous hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01c04138$e6ec6540$10ebadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I had a revelation during a big photocopying project at my temp job yesterday. (Photocopying projects are great for that. You just stand and stare off into space, but you're not allowed to actually fall asleep, so you have to entertain yourself by seeking revelation.) I was thinking about heys, since my longsword team is working out Loftus from the book and some members don't have previous dance experience, so those of us who do are trying out different ways to explain things. So I was thinking about how to explain the concept of Make a BIG Loop Up At The Top, and I started thinking about how that has a parallel in ECD, where you wait out one turn after you make it up to the top, and it suddenly hit me: English longways dances are essentially humongous heys. You hey your way down to the bottom of the line, kill time for one turn, and then hey your way up to the top, where you kill time for one turn. I realize this probably isn't news to everyone else, but it was certainly news to me; no one has ever put it like that in my hearing. And if English longways dances are essentially huge heys, then *most* contra dances are, too. Furthermore, while I don't know much about squares, I'd speculate that most square dances are circular heys for couples -- i.e, a circular poussette. So the revelation for me was that the hey wasn't just an important figure in ECD (and its relatives); it is a *basic construct* for the dance form as a whole. Thank God at that point I got to go to lunch, or I might have become feverish. Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:03:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:03:06 -0500 (EST) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Seattle Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Pray, can someone tell me the date of the Seattle Ball, and whether it's fully subscribed yet? Thanks! Nilos ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:37:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: a humongous hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Marian Phillips wrote: >I was thinking about heys ... you wait out one turn after you >make it up to the top, and it suddenly hit me: English longways >dances are essentially humongous heys. You hey your way down to >the bottom of the line, kill time for one turn, and then hey >your way up to the top, where you kill time for one turn. > >I realize this probably isn't news to everyone else, but it was >certainly news to me; no one has ever put it like that in my >hearing. And if English longways dances are essentially huge >heys, then *most* contra dances are, too. Furthermore, while I >don't know much about squares, I'd speculate that most square >dances are circular heys for couples -- i.e, a circular >poussette. > >So the revelation for me was that the hey wasn't just an >important figure in ECD (and its relatives); it is a *basic >construct* for the dance form as a whole. This occurred to me years ago, but I never discussed it with anyone. I had it the other way around, however: Heys are just little compact longways dances. It doesn't hold for squares that don't progress (most of them). The ones where one partner progresses around the set are somewhat analogous to circular heys, but would be more so if path partners progressed in opposite directions. Don't even *try* to map Levi Jackson Rag to a hey. I just did (tried). It still hurts. The geometry of the hey/longways preogression does, however, map very nicely onto the classic bell-tower "change ringing" patterns. A collection of bells are rung in a certain order, then they change places in the order in pairs, working through the progression like an aural hey. I have no first hand experience in this, and actually very little knowledge of it, but it was all explained to me by ECD'er and change ringer, David Gallop, seven years ago in the bell towers of Oxford University. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:24:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:09:42 -0500 From: Torbin Zimmerman Subject: USAC Dances To: ECD List - Post Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39FDAB55.AE0C35D4-AT- interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ever since I made the transition from mostly morris dancing to mostly English country dancing, I've been wondering... The archetypal morris dance would be described in our vocabulary as a USAC dance, where USA means what it always does and C refers to some circling figure. This would, of course, be followed by a fourth chorus / distinctive figure. Are there any USAC English country dances? If not, why not? Torbin Zimmerman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:44:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:44:13 -0800 From: Michael Richardson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #837 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ecd-digest-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Tideswell-AT- aol.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <009F25C7.7DEFF40C.1-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu> At 7:00 AM -0800 10/30/00, Tideswell-AT- aol.com wrote: >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:03:06 -0500 (EST) >From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com >Subject: Seattle Ball >Message-ID: > >Pray, can someone tell me the date of the Seattle Ball, and whether it's >fully subscribed yet? > >Thanks! > >Nilos Hi, Nilos! It's January 13th, 2001. Full info is online at: http://ball2001.editthispage.com/ I don't know if it's full yet, but please e-mail Paul Bestock at: bestockp-AT- oz.net for the latest info. Save me a dance! -- Cheers, Mike ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:44:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:44:13 -0800 From: Michael Richardson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #837 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ecd-digest-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Tideswell-AT- aol.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <009F25C7.7DEFF40C.1-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu> At 7:00 AM -0800 10/30/00, Tideswell-AT- aol.com wrote: >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:03:06 -0500 (EST) >From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com >Subject: Seattle Ball >Message-ID: > >Pray, can someone tell me the date of the Seattle Ball, and whether it's >fully subscribed yet? > >Thanks! > >Nilos Hi, Nilos! It's January 13th, 2001. Full info is online at: http://ball2001.editthispage.com/ I don't know if it's full yet, but please e-mail Paul Bestock at: bestockp-AT- oz.net for the latest info. Save me a dance! -- Cheers, Mike ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:24:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:23:27 -0500 (EST) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: USAC Dances To: ECD List - Post Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, Torbin Zimmerman wrote: > Ever since I made the transition from mostly morris dancing to mostly > English country dancing, I've been wondering... > > The archetypal morris dance would be described in our vocabulary as a > USAC dance, where USA means what it always does and C refers to some > circling figure. This would, of course, be followed by a fourth chorus / > distinctive figure. > > Are there any USAC English country dances? Sellenger's Round is CUSA.... or is that CISA? Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:24:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: USAC Dances To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JVY6Y2WHJW99DS94-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Torbin wrote: Ever since I made the transition from mostly morris dancing to mostly English country dancing, I've been wondering... The archetypal morris dance would be described in our vocabulary as a USAC dance, where USA means what it always does and C refers to some circling figure. This would, of course, be followed by a fourth chorus / distinctive figure. So long as "archetypal" doesn't mean that every single morris dance is like that, or even that every single tradition has something like it. Ducklington seems to have several U,C,C,C,H dances, for example, and both Ducklington and Sherbourne often end on a hey without a repeat of the distinctive figure. >Are there any USAC English country dances? Don't know of any, but there are several where the U is replaced by either _in_ a double (toward the center of a square set) or a slipping circle - Sellenger's Round, Jovial Beggars, etc. CSA dances, as it where. (My not knowing of any doesn't mean there aren't any, either ones that haven't been revived or that I just haven't encountered.) >If not, why not? Many of the classic USA dances (Scotch Cap, The Chestnut, The Black Nag, The Beggar Boy, Shepherd's Holiday, Newcastle, for example) don't repeat the distinctive figure, instead doing something different for every chorus. Rampant speculation: It seems quite likely to me that three different choruses is quite enough to remember, and having to remember a fourth chorus is just too much. [That would presumably increase the teach time by 33 1/3 percent, and those things often go on long enough as it is.] -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:48:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:48:51 -0500 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:USAC dances To: English Dance Message-ID: <000201c042dc$b8387540$fe981c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan wrote: "Rampant speculation: It seems quite likely to me that three different choruses is quite enough to remember, and having to remember a fourth chorus is just too much." I have the extremely distant memory from a class at the Early Dance Institute in 1987 -- we were doing an Italian courtly dance, said to contain the figures on which the Playford formula would later be based. I think there were more than three (or four) figures but the only ones that the Playford country dances would come to use were the circle, up (or forward) a double, siding, and arming. I've also always wondered why. The answer may be as simple as you suggest, in regard to folks doing country dancing. Back in 1987 I was still a novice dancer, not much attuned to historical dimensions, so I didn't pay as close attention as I would *now* if I were in such a class. It would be nice if Julia Sutton would appear about now. Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:56:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:14:44 -0800 From: Mary Luckhardt Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:USAC dances To: ECD List , English Dance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I utterly agree! Do you suppose she will descend in a chariot like the goddess Minerva in a baroque opera? Mary Luckhardt (Sorry, Julia, the image was irresistable.) On 10/30/00 5:48 PM Patricia Ruggiero said: >It would be nice if Julia Sutton would appear about now. > >Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:56:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:14:44 -0800 From: Mary Luckhardt Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:USAC dances To: ECD List , English Dance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I utterly agree! Do you suppose she will descend in a chariot like the goddess Minerva in a baroque opera? Mary Luckhardt (Sorry, Julia, the image was irresistable.) On 10/30/00 5:48 PM Patricia Ruggiero said: >It would be nice if Julia Sutton would appear about now. > >Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:55:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:57:01 -0800 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: a humongous hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01c042f7$019a0400$58eaadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Barnert writes: The geometry of the hey/longways preogression does, however, map very nicely onto the classic bell-tower "change ringing" patterns. That, actually, was a revelation I had at the photocopier about two weeks ago, but I didn't post it here because I figured there weren't any change ringers in the crowd (which was pretty silly of me, come to think of it). My experience is limited -- I was learning to ring at the National Cathedral in Washington DC, however just as I was making the transition from Plain Hunt to Plain Bob I moved to California -- -- But, yes, Plain Hunt, which is the pattern that a lot of the change ringing methods work off of, is a classic hey, right down to the "hang out for one turn" at the ends. If you're ringing the treble (highest) bell, you start out ringing first, then slow down just enough so that on the second round you ring second, and on the third round you ring third, etc., until you make it down to the end of the (aural) line, at which point you speed up just enough to keep your place at the end -- and then you speed up a little more and start working your way back up the line to first place. All the other bell ringers are ringing the same pattern, but are starting at different points in the pattern, so the number two bell, for example, will speed up into first place, hang out at first for a turn, and then slow down for the run to the end of the line. I'm so glad someone else has noticed this, I thought I was going off the deep end. Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:32:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:28:21 -0600 From: Bill McDonald Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Barley Mow To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <001401c04392$431045c0$d017bcd0-AT- laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200010262330.AAA04272-AT- galahad.tgis.co.uk> I'm attempting to teach the 3Co LW dance featured on the Assembly Player's CD "Dance and Danceability" named The Barley Mow. In the middle part of the dance, the call is for the first couple to cross Rsh, lead down thru the third couple and cast back up to middle position (improper). Then with the 1st man facing down and the 2nd woman facing up, each hands 3 once to the left (i.e., 1st man circling with the third couple, 1st woman circling with the 2nd couple). Now here's where I lose it. The instruction then calls for the 1st man and woman to hey with their respective couples, starting with the member of the opposite sex by the left shoulder and ending proper. I'm having trouble picturing how this hey looks and how to make the change so that everybody ends up proper in only four beats. I've tried the hey across as well as up and down the set, but I still don't have people in the right place when the unrelenting music is ready for the next step. I'm sure there are experts out there who seen/done this dance first hand, but the real challenge is how to explain it in words! But then if I could *see* it done, I wouldn't need assistance. Tis a puzzlement! Any/all help would be greatly appreciated. McDjr