Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:59:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:35:09 -0400
From: "L. Russell Herman, Jr." <rherman-AT-
igc.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>Okay, fine, I will.  Remember last year, about this time, when all the
>calendar pedants started going on and on and on about how the millenium
>ACTUALLY started in 2001?
>
>Okay, people, here we are approaching the ACTUAL start of an ACTUAL new
>millenium.  If anyone happens to be holding an evening of ECD where, at the
>momentous moment, they'll be dancing Sellenger's Round (aka The Beginning of
>the World) I'll be there, be it never so far.  Moreover, I'll bring baked
>goods.    Heck, give me enough forewarning and a reasonable kitchen and I'll
>make breakfast after the dance.
>
>Nilos, who didn't dance last New Years Eve, but had a pretty good time anyway

Nilos (and the list),

Sun Assembly's New Year's Eve dance in Durham, North Carolina,
always ends with Sellenger's Round at midnight.

A delightful crowd, diverse in age, gender, orientation, dress style,
and who knows what else.  Great floor.  Relaxed, friendly atmosphere.
Gender-neutral calling by the legendary Allan Troxler this year.
Band led by the brilliant Celia Wright on piano.  Homemade goodies
at the break.

It'd be great to have you with us this year.

  -- Russell

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Russell Herman     Raleigh, North Carolina, USA     rherman-AT-
igc.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:03:04 PST
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:05:20 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:

> My experiences at Pinewoods English week have been of that nature -- good
> English dancers who are also good (and usually former) contradancers but who
> don't attend English/American week because they don't want to do
> contradancing all week or be with a large contingent of die-hard
> contradancers.  

I've only been to E/A week once, so my experience may not be 
typical, but I wouldn't recognise it from this description. E/A week 
in 1999 had a wonderful mixture of contras, squares, playford, 
traditional english, ceilidh and contemporary english dance. We 
didn't do contras all week, and I certainly wouldn't describe the 
attendees as "die-hard contradancers" - they were definitely die-
hard dancers, but were happy and enthusiastic no matter what 
dance was called.

I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance 
scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further 
apart and leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one 
of the casualties of this gap is contras done with some control, 
there are a whole host of other dances that fall into the gap.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:21:28 PST
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Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:23:50 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Sir Roger de Coverley
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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I know we're not due to have the annual Roger de Coverley 
discussion for a while yet, but if I don't post this now I'll have lost it 
by the time it comes round again. Apologies if anyone's posted this 
before.

It's a quote from "Tom Brown's Schooldays" by Thomas Hughes, 
publish in 1857 and refers to a man preparing for a fight:

"He takes off his long-flapped coat, and stands up in a long-flapped 
waistcoat, which Sir Roger de Coverley might have worn when it 
was new..."

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:32:24 PST
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:32:08 -0700
From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Science Library" <langston-AT-
citrus.ucr.edu>
Subject: Hello to the list from Lizbeth Langston
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hello, 
  I'm rejoining the ECD list after a long absence.  Here's a
little bit about me:
By avocation I am a dance historian specializing in 16th and
early 17th century dance and literature.  I hold a Master's
degree in Dance History and a Ph.D. in Comparative Literature
(with an interdisciplinary emphasis in dance), both from the
University of California, Riverside. I currently work as a
reference librarian at UC Riverside.
  I'm an active vintage and contra dancer, and even do a little
bit of ECD in the LA area.
My research interests include sixteenth and seventeenth-century
dance and theater, generally. Several years ago I founded
Danzando, a Southern California-based research and performing
group, which focuses primarily on Renaissance dance.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:15:47 PST
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:29:33 -0800
From: sbecd <sbecd-AT-
geocities.com>
Subject: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39D93679.3097647D-AT-
geocities.com>
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Good day all.
an aquaintance of mine, who teaches early music, is planning to give the class a
hands-on experience and have them dance an early ECD. for reasons that escape me
(possibly because the textbook mentions this dance by name?) the dance of choice
is Kemps Jegg. It is found in Playford's first edition.
But, since the description by Playford makes very little sense, my friend asked
for my help at interpreting it.
Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, I was wondering if anyone has seen (or
maybe done him/herself) a modern interpretation/transcription of this dance.
Any help, either via the mailing list or privately to sbecd-AT-
geocities.com, will be
greatly appreciated.
Giovanni De Amici

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:02:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:31:24 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness, only slightly more off
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001002.213203.-7139.0.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:02:18 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
writes:
> Cecil Sharp's Birthday. (December 12)
> 
> Saint Cecelia's birthday, also


Also the shared birthdays of Jane Austen and Beethoven.  I refuse to
think that this is mere mathematical probability.


Allison Thompson 





































> Emily L. Ferguson
> elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
> Beetle cats on the web at:
> http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
> http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
> landscape at:
> http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html
> 
> 

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:56:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:56:18 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness, only slightly more off
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130302b5feed230dd7-AT-
[140.186.55.36]>
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I thought Sharp was born on St. Cecelia's day - November 22.  I thought
that was why he was named Cecil.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:09:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:08:42 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: No contras, etc.
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000701c02ce7$3c0d5c70$27981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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Bob Archer wrote:

"I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance
scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further apart and
leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one of the casualties of
this gap is contras done with some control, there are a whole host of other
dances that fall into the gap."

Cause and effect can be reversed here.  Lack of control is one reason many
folks abandon their local contradance.


As for your experience at E/A week, all I can say is that attendance at E/A
week varies, just as it does the other weeks, depending on the specific
program and the staff.  Perceptions also vary.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:09:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:08:48 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000901c02ce7$3fcb75e0$27981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear,
so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions.....

Helpfully,
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of sbecd
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 9:30 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: kemps jegg ??


Good day all.
an aquaintance of mine, who teaches early music, is planning to give the
class a
hands-on experience and have them dance an early ECD. for reasons that
escape me
(possibly because the textbook mentions this dance by name?) the dance of
choice
is Kemps Jegg. It is found in Playford's first edition.
But, since the description by Playford makes very little sense, my friend
asked
for my help at interpreting it.
Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, I was wondering if anyone has seen
(or
maybe done him/herself) a modern interpretation/transcription of this dance.
Any help, either via the mailing list or privately to sbecd-AT-
geocities.com,
will be
greatly appreciated.
Giovanni De Amici


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:57:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:57:18 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200010030357.WAA01332-AT-
kang.svc.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Bob Archer wrote:  

>I wonder if there's a problem of polarisation affecting the US dance 
>scene - contra and English seem to be moving further and further 
>apart and leaving a big gap in the middle. As has been noted, one 
>of the casualties of this gap is contras done with some control, 
>there are a whole host of other dances that fall into the gap.

For those who don't know me, I'm an active contra/square caller 
and choreographer, but also a lover of ECD.  Some observations, 
hopefully made with a dispassionate eye, but not without passion: 

Among prejudiced contra dancers, English dancing is generally 
dismissed with a shrug.  Among prejudiced English dancers, contra 
dancing is generally dismissed with disdain.  English is boring; 
contra is unruly.  I think that both camps are mistaken in the 
ease of their dismissals, though I have had experiences that 
could lead me to agree with either.

I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly unruly.  
I also believe that it's possible to have lively contra dancing, 
with some improvisation, without crossing the line to unruly.  
But some dance leaders don't have the sensibilities or the nerve 
to instill a sense of that difference in the dancers.  In fact, 
I believe that most of the difficulty can be traced to poor 
leadership.  (I can go on about this, and sometimes do.)

For instance, there is a sad-but-widely-held belief among contra 
dancers that dances which have no swinging are boring.  Many 
contra dance leaders abet that belief by failing to identify and 
present fine contra dances which do without.  I believe that 
this is an important element of the "gap".  

Many contra callers call almost no dances that are more than 15 
years old.  Almost none call any triple minors.  Ten years ago, 
during a break at a Chicago area dance wekend, some musicians 
began playing Chorus Jig.  The dance wordlessly assembled itself 
and flew.  The musicians responded by challenging the dancers 
with Petronella.  The dance again assembled and whirred.  They 
moved on to Hull's Victory and Rory O'More.  I don't know about 
other locales, but I don't believe that could happen in the 
unwashed Midwest any more.  Few contra dancers, or leaders, for 
that matter, have a sense of the genesis of the dancing they 
love.

English dancing is more difficult to present well.  And when it 
isn't, it can be pretty boring.  

In most places that I wander, the English dance series are 
distinctly "grayer" than are the contra dance series.  I wonder  
whether English dancing might not be approaching a tipping 
point in this regard... does the average age of the average 
English dance group discourage participation by young dancers?  

In my experience, beginners are more likely to find themselves 
feeling embarrassed at an English dance than a contra dance -- 
though, heaven knows, it can happen at either.  

Tribalism is everywhere... why not here?  

Roger Diggle

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:16:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:22:36 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c02cf1$8f1173c0$c4eaadce-AT-
default>
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Roger Diggle asks:
>>does the average age of the average
English dance group discourage participation by young dancers? <<

That brings up something I've been curious about -- in the CDSS-affiliated
dances I've been to, the average age seems fairly high.  Is that the norm?

Marian Phillips




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:24:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:27:13 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <009a01c02d02$f8c63e20$5a98adce-AT-
pstamler>
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Roger Diggle asks:
>>does the average age of the average
English dance group discourage participation by young dancers? <<

<<That brings up something I've been curious about -- in the CDSS-affiliated
dances I've been to, the average age seems fairly high.  Is that the norm?>>

Not sure what you mean by "fairly high", but I'd say the average age of
folks in the St. Louis ECD group is perhaps 5 years higher than that of the
local contra group.

Peace.
Paul






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:34:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:37:02 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <00a101c02d04$57f3f9e0$5a98adce-AT-
pstamler>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <200010030357.WAA01332-AT-
kang.svc.tds.net>

Roger Diggle said:

<<Many contra callers call almost no dances that are more than 15
years old.  Almost none call any triple minors.  Ten years ago,
during a break at a Chicago area dance wekend, some musicians
began playing Chorus Jig.  The dance wordlessly assembled itself
and flew.  The musicians responded by challenging the dancers
with Petronella.  The dance again assembled and whirred.  They
moved on to Hull's Victory and Rory O'More.  I don't know about
other locales, but I don't believe that could happen in the
unwashed Midwest any more.  Few contra dancers, or leaders, for
that matter, have a sense of the genesis of the dancing they
love.>>

I think Roger is correct, and I mourn the disappearance of that sense of
rootedness. It's worth noting, too, that those dancers almost certainly
could not assemble and do *any* dance without a caller, including the modern
classics, because the culture no longer includes memorizing dances. Very
experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before
being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the
dances by heart.

<<In my experience, beginners are more likely to find themselves
feeling embarrassed at an English dance than a contra dance --
though, heaven knows, it can happen at either.  >>

Also true in my observation.

<<Tribalism is everywhere... why not here?  >>

Sigh...watching what's going on in the middle east at the moment, I want to
yell "BECAUSE IT KILLS PEOPLE, THAT'S WHY NOT!"

Peace. If possible.
Paul (contra dancer, ECD musician, like traditional squares too)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:33:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:33:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10010030932080.13545-100000-AT-
choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:

> Not sure what you mean by "fairly high", but I'd say the average age of
> folks in the St. Louis ECD group is perhaps 5 years higher than that of the
> local contra group.

Maybe that's how long it takes them to get wisdom (;-^)

Eric (sorry, couldn't resist!) Arnold


> 
> Peace.
> Paul
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:54:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:53:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10010030936200.13545-100000-AT-
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On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Paul Stamler wrote:

> Roger Diggle said:

> 
> <<Many contra callers call almost no dances that are more than 15
> years old.  Almost none call any triple minors. 

[snip]

...to which Paul appended [more snip]

... Very
> experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before
> being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the
> dances by heart.

One problem, clearly attributed to leadership, is the frequent failure to
announce the title of the dance at contradances.  

At a weekend of mixed English Country and contra dancing in Ann Arbor just
over, the up-and-coming young caller of both ECD and contra from Columbus,
OH, Joseph Pimentel, who clearly has a natural aptitude for the role and
who usually gives credit where it is due, called a triple minor contra
which was new to me, and while he said it was a "traditional" dance which
had been modified to get some swings in (!), he didn't give the name until
I asked, which was just before he was about to tell the band to start.
(It was "The Fly" as I recall.)  The figures seemed a bit dorky in the
walkthrough, but as we began to get the shape of it and learned how to get
the most out of it, it was actually great fun, and a wonderful addition to
the program.  

I do wonder about his source, and what the shape was before the
interpolated swings...

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 07:20:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:20:56 -0400
From: Marge Cramton <marge-AT-
logiclink.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001003101957.00aeb240-AT-
mailhub.logiclink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I bet he'd tell you if you asked him!

(although it's probably too late today for a few days...)

At 09:53 AM 10/3/00 -0400, you wrote:


>I do wonder about his source, and what the shape was before the
>interpolated swings...
>
>Eric Arnold
>  Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 07:50:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:49:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: opportunity knocks!
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F60V5d724TSVHs00009df4-AT-
hotmail.com>
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R.Diggle [I think I have that right] said:

"Among prejudiced contra dancers, English dancing is generally
dismissed with a shrug.  Among prejudiced English dancers, contra
dancing is generally dismissed with disdain.  English is boring;
contra is unruly."

****

I see this as a wonderful opportunity for cross fertilization, in fact: it's 
time to develop a style which is *BOTH* boring and unruly! What a grand 
possibility; ranks right up, or down, there with "world's worst contra [or 
English] dance" competitions I recall at Pinewoods.

So the next time you have a chance, why not aim for this glorious goal? 
Arise, ye prisoners of something-or-other!

Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:59:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:54:55 -0400
From: pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: opportunity knocks
To: ECD-DIGEST-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00100311545582-AT-
tedcrane.com>
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Steve (et al)...

>I see this as a wonderful opportunity for cross fertilization, in fact: it's 
>time to develop a style which is *BOTH* boring and unruly! What a grand 
>possibility; 

Sounds like rowdy English/ceilidh dancing to me!
Something I've often thought would possibly appeal
to both - or neither - groups of American dancers.

>So the next time you have a chance, why not aim for this glorious goal? 

Ok you Yanks! Get hopping!

Pamela
(ranting in Ithaca, NY)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:25:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:27:52 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <004301c02d56$e348a480$7e98adce-AT-
pstamler>
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10010030936200.13545-100000-AT-
choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]

... Very
> experienced dancers will sometimes recognize one when it's called, before
> being told the title, but almost no one but callers actually learns the
> dances by heart.

<<One problem, clearly attributed to leadership, is the frequent failure to
announce the title of the dance at contradances.  >>

I don't think that's the issue. At our local dance, at least, callers almost
always announce the name of the dance. It's more a problem that the idea of
dancing something without a caller and a walkthrough simply isn't part of
the culture, and hasn't been for a very long time.

Vis-a-vis the age question, by the way, we've begun to see some folks from
the contra group coming to English because their bodies have problems with
the vigor of contra. At least, that's their stated reason.

Peace.
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 11:58:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:58:29 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: less on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200010031858.NAA27230-AT-
kang.svc.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andrew Peterson wrote:  

--- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:

>...finally gave up contra dancing when I had my glasses
>knocked of twice in an evening by flying elbows.

I nearly got my nose broken by a flying elbow at NEFFA in 1999...
during Lisa Greenleaf's "Contra Dance Safely" session.

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:47:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:46:46 -0700
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
geocities.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.20001003194646.00923fe0-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
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Good day Pat.
yes, the directions about kissing are easy to follow.
a little less easy is:
"First man lead the W as before: Turn half round, holding both hands, and
his own as much to the other, turn the third W"
does this describe a circle 1/2 around for 3 people, followed by a 2-hand
turn for M1 and W3?

and:
"First man take the W as before by the contrary hands behind, then lead them
forward and back"
whose hand(s) are contrary? and behind what?
Just the two more obscure points. Still puzzled,
Giovanni

At 11:08 PM 10/2/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear,
>so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions.....
>
>Helpfully,
>Pat
Giovanni De Amici

check out SBECD web page at www.geocities.com/sbecd

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:20:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:19:56 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000601c02d77$4c2d9df0$29981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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Hello again, Giovanni,

I assume, then, that Part I is clear.

Part II still has me stumped.

Part III.  I think the women use "contrary" hands, placed behind their
backs.  Trying this by myself (Kids! don't try this at home!), I think it's
easy for the man to give a gentle tug to turn first one woman and then the
other toward him for the kissing. Then he turns the remaining woman.  How
does that look to you?

Pat (this time a bit more helpful, I hope...)





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of South Bay
English Country Dance
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 3:47 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: RE: kemps jegg ??


Good day Pat.
yes, the directions about kissing are easy to follow.
a little less easy is:
"First man lead the W as before: Turn half round, holding both hands, and
his own as much to the other, turn the third W"
does this describe a circle 1/2 around for 3 people, followed by a 2-hand
turn for M1 and W3?

and:
"First man take the W as before by the contrary hands behind, then lead them
forward and back"
whose hand(s) are contrary? and behind what?
Just the two more obscure points. Still puzzled,
Giovanni

At 11:08 PM 10/2/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Well, the part about "kiss her, as much with the other..." is pretty clear,
>so I assume you're referring to some of the other directions.....
>
>Helpfully,
>Pat
Giovanni De Amici

check out SBECD web page at www.geocities.com/sbecd


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:06:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:36:46 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001003.205814.-847697.8.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Giovanni (and others),

In her class at the Amherst Early Music workshop this summer, dance
historian Carol Marsh and her students worked up a terrific
reconstruction of Kemp's Jig which was performed as part of the theater
project.  Looked like fun (kissing and all...).

Write Carol at c_marsh-AT-
uncg.edu

Gene Murrow
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:05:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:05:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Beethoven's birthday
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2f.b55231d.270c1494-AT-
aol.com>
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Allison Thompson wrote:

 >On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:02:18 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson"
 ><elf-AT-
cape.com> writes:
 > > Cecil Sharp's Birthday. (December 12)
 > > 
 > > Saint Cecelia's birthday, also
 >
 >
 >Also the shared birthdays of Jane Austen and Beethoven. I refuse
 >to think that this is mere mathematical probability.

Maybe Jane Austen. I wouldn't know. But Beethoven was baptized on
Dec. 17, 1770. There is no record of his birth date. I seem to
remember that his bicentennial was celebrated on the 16th in 1970.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:43:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001004064313.22904.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net> wrote:
> ...It's worth noting, too, that those dancers almost certainly
> could not assemble and do *any* dance without a caller, 
> including the modern classics, because the culture no longer 
> includes memorizing dances.

I think that this is partly because dances more than likely will
be done with a different tune each time. Unlike the old
traditional ones, I know of no modern Contra that uses a
specific tune for the dance. Having the music tell you what to
do is one of the reasons that most ECD is memorizable. The
problem I have is that when a tune associated with a fairly
common dance that I know well enough to dance it in my sleep is
used for a different dance, I find it very hard to do the new
dance. One case I can remember that I experienced problems was
using the tune I know for "The Chestnut" for "All Saints Day" at
the Portland Ball. I have done "All Saints Day" numerous times
in Boston, but couldn't do it to "The Chestnut" music. My brain,
programmed over many years, wanted to do a different dance to
that music than the one being taught. Then there is the use of
"Morpeth Rant" for a Contra that doesn't really fit it; I find
it *so*hard* not to rant. With modern Contras I suspect that it
might even be hard to find two bands who use the same tune for a
given dance. Sometimes a caller finds a tune that especially
fits a dance and asks the band to use it, if they know it, but
I've all too often experienced dances that didn't relate at all
to the tune the band chose for it and what might be a great
dance falls flat.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:04:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Age Gap (was: Contra/English gap)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001004070412.15767.qmail-AT-
web3302.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:
> Roger Diggle asks:
> > does the average age of the average English dance group 
> > discourage participation by young dancers?
>
>
> That brings up something I've been curious about -- in the
> CDSS-affiliated dances I've been to, the average age seems 
> fairly high.  Is that the norm?
> 

When Lyrl and I first went to Pinewoods (I was 20) and then
started travelling from DC to New York and Boston for various
events, I seem to remember that Carl Rodgers and Mike Stimson,
at about 40, were about the two youngest regular participants in
the CDS New York center. They experienced a surge of new younger
dancers shortly after that and to some extent that occurred
elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly what triggered it. I understand
that another surge of young dancers was experienced in New York
recently because of interest generated by the Jane Austen
movies. Every group seems to experience some degree of new
recruits and dormancy.

To answer Roger, I think our modern society seperates age groups
too much and young people never learn that us "old" people can
actually be fun to be around. I also think that many kids spend
too much time with canned entertainment, such as TV and video
games, and that controls their interests.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:09:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 00:08:01 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330107b60084cea666-AT-
[24.8.188.38]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20001004064313.22904.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:43 PM -0700, on 10/3/00, Andrew Peterson wrote:

[snip]

>Unlike the old
>traditional ones, I know of no modern Contra that uses a
>specific tune for the dance.

The Wizard's Walk (Music: Jay Ungar; Dance: Ruth Ungar)

[snip]
-- 
"Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies
Gary Shapiro <http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:28:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
valley.net (David Millstone)
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <17842808-AT-
lyme.VALLEY.NET>
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On the subject of dancers needing to rely on the caller...

--- Paul Stamler wrote:
It's more a problem that the idea of dancing something without a caller and a
walkthrough simply isn't part of the culture, and hasn't been for a very long
time.
--- end of quote ---

One other factor is the growing number of dances that are called and the
proliferation of new dance compositions. Used to be that a dance community had a
small and reasonably fixed repertoire; at Duke Miller's dances in the Monadnock
region of New Hampshire, for example, everyone (i.e., all the regular dancers)
knew that "Because, Just Because" would be the dance before the break and "Money
Musk" would always be the first dance after the break; there was a set pattern
that you could rely on. A caller's repertoire might contain only a few dozen
dances, and as Dudley Laufman is fond of pointing out, in Maine you might dance
"Lady of the Lake" three times in one evening. (Try suggesting that today at a
hot urban dance!)

The match of tune to dance is obviously a factor in singing squares. If half the
floor is busy singing along with the caller, "You do-si-do around your corner...
With a right hand, go twice around your own (MAKE IT TWICE!)," the pattern and
the music become closely linked in the dancer's minds and bodies.

The tastes of today's active dancers are different; instead of familiarity, many
are seeking a new wrinkle each time they dance, and callers who stick to a
smaller, more traditional, repertoire are looked on with disfavor by those dance
gypsies who are often the organizers and booking agents for local dance series.

In the ECD community, perhaps part of the appeal of Balls-- as opposed to a
generic evening dance-- is a desire by some dancers to work with a fixed set of
dances, a program where you know what to expect and where you've practiced the
figures ahead of time.

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:02:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 18:04:34 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: kemps jegg ??
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39DB6322.2591-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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References: <2.2.32.20001003194646.00923fe0-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>

You might wish to refer to the interpretation by the Kennedy's published
in the Country Dance Book New Series No. 1 (1929). Whilst there is no
kissing in their version, it was not the done thing, it might give some
clues.

Graham Knight

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:11:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:10:50 -0700
From: "Lizbeth Langston, UCR Science Library" <langston-AT-
citrus.ucr.edu>
Subject: Lippincott Award Announcement
To: Dance-Tech <dance-tech-AT-
lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>, ECD <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, Ficino <FICINO-AT-
listserv.utoronto.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39DB72AA.AF5CB2AA-AT-
citrus.ucr.edu>
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Colleagues--
Please consider nominating a paper. I apologize for
cross-postings that you might have received, but I need to
disseminate the information widely.
Lizbeth Langston
Corresponding Secretary, SDHS
                         
                           The Society of Dance History Scholars
                           is proud to announce the fifth
                           GERTRUDE LIPPINCOTT AWARD

 2000 Gertrude Lippincott Award 
 Open to members and non-members of SDHS

The Society of Dance History Scholars invites submissions and
nominations for the fifth annual Gertrude Lippincott Award for
the best English language article on dance history or theory
published in 2000.  The award is named after its donor, Gertrude
Lippincott.  It was established to recognize excellence in the
field of dance scholarship. The $500 award and a certificate
will be presented to the winning author at the Society's annual
conference in June 2001 at Goucher College in Towson, Maryland.

Dance history and theory are broadly defined.  Nominations may
include the history, theory, and analysis of any genre of dance
from any methodological perspective.  Authors may submit their
own essays.  Nominations also may be made by editors,
publishers, and members of SDHS (only one entry per nominator or
author, please).

To enter the competition, send four copies of the published
article and a cover letter with the name, address, phone number,
and email (if available) of the author to Amy Koritz; Chair,
Gertrude Lippincott Award; English Department, Tulane
University; New Orleans, LA  70118-5698.

Members of the Editorial Board and the Board of Directors of
SDHS are not eligible.  Written inquiries may be addressed to
Amy Koritz or sent via email to:
akoritz-AT-
mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu   No fax or email submissions
will be accepted.

All nominations must be received by January 31, 2001.

The Society of Dance History Scholars is a constituent member of
the American Council of Learned Societies
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 11:32:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:32:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0010041426530.17088-100000-AT-
gnu.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, David Millstone wrote (in part):

> One other factor is the growing number of dances that are called and the
> proliferation of new dance compositions. Used to be that a dance community had a
> small and reasonably fixed repertoire; at Duke Miller's dances in the Monadnock
> region of New Hampshire, for example, everyone (i.e., all the regular dancers)
> knew that "Because, Just Because" would be the dance before the break and "Money
> Musk" would always be the first dance after the break; 

In the Catskills we had a set pattern also.  Intermission was always two-
inch thick chocolate cake with a sticky two-inch boiled vanilla
frosting; and the first dance after intermission always started with an
allemande left and grand chain.  I think about half the dancers had washed
their hands after the cake.  Maybe not.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:16:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Return-Path: rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400
From: Robert M Keller <rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39DCE19B.DF84314C-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Announcement of On-Line Publication of The Dancing Master, 1651-1728:
An Illustrated Compendium

The reference work, by Robert M. Keller, has been published in
cooperation with the English Folk Dance and Song Society (EFDSS) and the
New Hampshire Library for Traditional Music and Dance (NHLTMD). This
publication is the first of its kind, which lists all of the dances
published in The Dancing Master, as well as facsimiles of each "unique"
dance. Uniqueness has been defined as similar Title, Music and Dance
Figures.

The Compendium comprises a database of all the known country dances,
published in the various editions of The Dancing Master, by John
Playford, Henry Playford and John Young, from 1651-1728, in London. The
24 editions in three volumes eventually encompassed 1,053 unique dances
with their music. Many were copied from one edition to the next so that
the entire contents, with duplicates, amounts to 6,217 dances, including
186 tunes without dances and 3 songs.

The Compendium can be found at:
http://www.izaak.unh.edu/nhltmd/indexes/dancingmaster/.

The web site includes a Guest Book, where users can submit comments
on the site, and an email link. A CD-ROM version of the database is
planned, if interest is shown by users.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:56:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:55:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <c.b8780da.270e44de-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Roger Diggle wrote:

<< I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly unruly.  
 I also believe that it's possible to have lively contra dancing, 
 with some improvisation, without crossing the line to unruly.  
 But some dance leaders don't have the sensibilities or the nerve 
 to instill a sense of that difference in the dancers.  In fact, 
 I believe that most of the difficulty can be traced to poor 
 leadership.  (I can go on about this, and sometimes do.)
  >>
Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can injure other 
dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. elbows).Since some dancers come 
sporadically and "may forget" dance etiquette would it be possible for the 
announcer to give a reminder and/or  maybe the caller will reverse the 
lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to experience how it feels 
to be the one being swung as well as being guided into the next move. Posting 
Vickie Bestock's [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added 
delight!
Sandra
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:01:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:44:40 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001005.225338.-847697.21.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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Bob,

Congratulations!  What resource this will be...

On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400 Robert M Keller
<rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com> writes:
> ... A CD-ROM version of the database is planned, if interest is shown
by users.

Yes, I'd like to have a CD-ROM when I'm "on the road" and away from a Web
connection.

Gene 
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--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
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ISP of the moment: <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>         - "Reply" button
destination
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Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:19:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:19:15 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b602f52ef8c8-AT-
[140.186.55.46]>
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Me too.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:32:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:32:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Dancing Master, 1651-1728: An Illustrated Compendium
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001006063202.19190.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> Bob,
> 
> Congratulations!  What resource this will be...
> 
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:16:27 -0400 Robert M Keller
> <rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com> writes:
> > ... A CD-ROM version of the database is planned, if interest
> is shown by users.
> 
> Yes, I'd like to have a CD-ROM when I'm "on the road" and away
> from a Web connection.
> 
> Gene 
> 

It would also be handy for those times that you want to quickly
look something up and don't want to take the time to get online.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001006065338.26484.qmail-AT-
web3303.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Roger Diggle wrote:
> 
> << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly
> unruly.  I also believe that it's possible to have lively 
> contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the 
> line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the 
> sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that 
> difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the

> difficulty can be traced to poor leadership.  (I can go on 
> about this, and sometimes do.) >>
>
> Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can
> injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. 
> elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" 
> dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give

> a reminder and/or  maybe the caller will reverse the 
> lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to
> experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as 
> being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's 
> [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added 
> delight!
> Sandra

I couldn't agree more with what Roger says, and Sandra, I think
that "antics" is probably the more correct term unless you want
to call it "lack of respect" for those who are trying to share
the dance floor. Sometimes I am tempted to be downright rude
back to these people. It's just as disrespectful as the people
who drive down the street with the bass on their stereo booming
so loud that it rattles my windows for a full minute after they
pass (well, it seems like that long) and it seems to be a
general symbol of our "me, me, me" society. There I go
generalizing again, but rudeness does seem to be quite
prevalent.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:38:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:38:22 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Gentle Maiden
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b00b60393ea610c-AT-
[155.99.169.140]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I've had a request to find a dance called "Gentle Maiden".  This is all the
information I have.  Can anyone help?

>I meant to ask you about
>the lovely tune "Gentle Maiden".  I finally saw the music for it, and
>hope there's a standard longways dance for it.  I danced a very nice
>longways duple (improper?) dance to that tune in Denver once (1984),
>before I had heard about ECD... "Yeah, we did this really elegant
>contradance, in waltz time--it was marvelous!!"

>If you have the dance, might you bring it?  In my faded memory of
>it, the figures bear a slight resemblance to the sequence of Childgrove,
>with the last 8 bars as a waltz-neighbor-and-progress-to-next-position.

>I wouldn't think it would be hard to teach, and certainly the band can
>catch on to the (very repetitious) tune quickly.

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:45:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:44:52 -0500 (EST)
From: morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006093453.25095B-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is a wonderful effort by CDSS.  I've been a member for years but had
no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online.

The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of
dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom
Companion" - see
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html

I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the
Playford editions, since it does include other European texts.  It
includes several resources  well-known to English Country dancers,
including

Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures;
whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy
by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in
the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson,
dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. 

Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of
dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing
country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps &
manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in
an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the
French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions,
all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country
dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing
master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen
... & by ye author ..., 1710 

and many other texts by Feuillet.

Jim Morgan
morganj-AT-
iupui.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:57:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:57:38 -0500 (EST)
From: morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006095016.25095E-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I spoke to soon.  The Library of Congress does include one edition of
Playford from 1698.
However I like the Keller effort much better.  For one thing the indexing
allows you to locate dances by title, where as the LC collection can only
be searched by book title.  It also looks like the database would permit
searching by other fields as well, such as formation.

Jim Morgan
morganj-AT-
iupui.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:04:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:04:23 -0400
From: Robert M Keller <rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39DDE9F7.6F899472-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006093453.25095B-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu>

Actually, the American Memory Project does have 2 copies of the Dancing
Master, the 4th and 10th. What they don't have is any 18th century American
dance manuals. There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American
dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including
several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is
anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country
Dances on-line? I have images of the 80+ sources. We would have to obtain
permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur
they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome
such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as
they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship).

morganj-AT-
iupui.edu wrote:

> This is a wonderful effort by CDSS.  I've been a member for years but had
> no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online.
>
> The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of
> dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom
> Companion" - see
> http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html
>
> I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the
> Playford editions, since it does include other European texts.  It
> includes several resources  well-known to English Country dancers,
> including
>
> Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures;
> whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy
> by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in
> the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson,
> dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735.
>
> Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of
> dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing
> country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps &
> manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in
> an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the
> French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions,
> all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country
> dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing
> master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen
> ... & by ye author ..., 1710
>
> and many other texts by Feuillet.
>
> Jim Morgan
> morganj-AT-
iupui.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:27:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:26:59 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b6039f486236-AT-
[140.186.54.241]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006093453.25095B-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu>

>There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American
>dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including
>several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is
>anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country
>Dances on-line?

Yup.  Just tell me what to do.  I have a film scanner, extensive photoshop
experience and great holes in my knowledge of moving things on to the web!


>I have images of the 80+ sources.

You've scanned every page?!

>We would have to obtain
>permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur
>they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome
>such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as
>they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship).
>

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:29:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:28:46 -0400
From: Robert M Keller <rmkeller-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39DDFDBE.D94FDA8-AT-
ex-pressnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006093453.25095B-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu> <l03130301b6039f486236-AT-
[140.186.54.241]>

Hi, Emily. You did some work coding for the National Tune Index, with Kitty and
me many years ago, as I remember.
Anyway, I have facsimiles of all of the known American dance sources, up to about
1810. I published an index and database of those dances, with my "patented" Dance
Figures Index about 10 years ago. There are about 2800 images, plus or minus.
What has to happen is for someone to scan those images AND clean them up. Many
have age spots, bleed through, probably coffee stains as well. I found that I had
to spend 5-15 minutes, per image doing spot removal, aligning and copying for the
Dancing Master publication. So be careful of what you wish for!
So it is not just a case of scanning, there is also the graphic editing. I found
that Photo Finish did a good job on spot removal, but some careful erasing had to
be done, as well. If we could find a few folks who are willing to spend a few
hundred hours, for NO pay, simply a contribution to the scholarship and history
of dance, it could happen. A few others have sort of expressed interest, so we
could organize a group to get started, if you would be interested. It is no small
undertaking, but a journey...


"Emily L. Ferguson" wrote:

> >There are many manuscripts and imprints of early American
> >dance instructions available in libraries around the country, including
> >several at the LOC (Adams, W, MS,1795, Duport CD,1800, Frasier CD,1796). Is
> >anyone interested in collaborating in getting the Early American Country
> >Dances on-line?
>
> Yup.  Just tell me what to do.  I have a film scanner, extensive photoshop
> experience and great holes in my knowledge of moving things on to the web!
>
> >I have images of the 80+ sources.
>
> You've scanned every page?!
>
> >We would have to obtain
> >permission to put the images on-line, but if we used a non-profit imprimatur
> >they could be done. I suspect that if we went to the LOC, they would welcome
> >such an addition. They have told me that they welcome additions, as long as
> >they meet certain criteria (copyright/ownership, scholarship).
> >
>
> Emily L. Ferguson
> elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
> Beetle cats on the web at:
> http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
> http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
> landscape at:
> http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:48:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:48:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0010061647010.64550-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Robert M Keller wrote:
(snip)
> So it is not just a case of scanning, there is also the graphic editing. I found
> that Photo Finish did a good job on spot removal, but some careful erasing had to
> be done, as well. If we could find a few folks who are willing to spend a few
> hundred hours, for NO pay, simply a contribution to the scholarship and history
> of dance, it could happen. A few others have sort of expressed interest, so we
> could organize a group to get started, if you would be interested. It is no small
> undertaking, but a journey...

Where do you have to be -- and what equipment to you need to own to help?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:48:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:50:27 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Finnish dances
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <003b01c0307e$bc2dbae0$53ffdcd1-AT-
pstamler>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi folks:

A couple of months ago, someone on the list (Andy?) mentioned they had tapes
of dances in Finnish that they hadn't transcribed because no one in the
dance group speaks Finnish. Whoever you are, I can put you in touch with
someone who may be able to help -- please e-mail me off-list.

Thanks!

Peace.
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:21:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:21:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200010091621.e99GL4W03763-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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   I'm going to try leading Red House for the first time later this month
and I was wondering what sort of tempo most people use for this dance.
I'm thinking that it may need to be fairly slow (~90 bpm), but I may be
way off.  I'd appreciate knowing what tempo others use for this dance.

   Thanks.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
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|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:42:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:41:58 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b607b38febf8-AT-
[140.186.54.250]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

definitely moderato, or a bit faster.  But not much.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:15:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:15:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <6a.74c415e.27136530-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 10/9/0 5:42:38 PM, you wrote:

<<definitely moderato, or a bit faster.  But not much.>>

I would estimate the tempo at which I like to do Red House to be 112 bpm.
Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:21:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:27:40 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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popserver.panix.com>
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In Gene's Dance Leaders' Training in Music workshop, we worked on
establishing tempo by choosing a figure from the dance that involves
"footwork" and dancing that figure as you run through the tune in your
head.  Once you feel comfortable with the way you're moving to the music,
you've got a reasonable tempo for the dance.  Useful sections of Red House
for establishing tempo are A2 1-4 [Ones set R & L] and the C music
[glorious skip-changing the heys for three].

Gene's class is great!

Cheers,
Sharon Green
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:00:59 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:00:37 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b607d3cf801b-AT-
[140.186.54.197]>
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dancing that figure as you run through the tune in your
>head.  Once you feel comfortable with the way you're moving to the music,
>you've got a reasonable tempo for the dance.  Useful sections of Red House
>for establishing tempo are A2 1-4 [Ones set R & L] and the C music
>[glorious skip-changing the heys for three].

Somehow it seems the skip/change is less work than the skip, and since I
dance in Boston and we do the skip on those heys, if we can get ourselves
up for it, I'd set the tempo based on those skipped heys.  They're
glorious, but still have to maintain a serious measure of stability and
dignity because of the radical change of mood immediately after them.

Any tempo choice must be able to straddle those types of mood changes in ECD.


Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:00:06 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:57:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Trevor=20Monson?= <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pine Woods
To: ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001009225727.20757.qmail-AT-
web1501.mail.yahoo.com>
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Does anyone know who is calling at the English Dance
week on 11th August 2001 at Pine Woods please. I am
sending this form the people who want to know, so hope
it gets through OK.
Please reply to berniceandjim-AT-
aol.com as it is them
who are making the request and I may be home by the
time anyone answeres me
Thanks,
Trevor Monson.

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Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:00:08 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:30:14 -0400
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: tempo for Red House
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was
definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort.
Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere
between 104 and 106.  

Of course, here in Amherst I don't think we generally skip OR skip-change
on the heys, and they're still fun at our slightly fast tempo, but maybe
we're missing even more fun.

I think of this dance as energetic and a great mood-lightener.  A lot of
teasing and dance-joking inevitably goes on in the chase figures.  At a
slower tempo, it might be a more subdued, perhaps duller, affair.

Joyce Crouch
Amherst, MA

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:10:25 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:10:16 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b6081ca19ce1-AT-
[140.186.55.117]>
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>I think of this dance as energetic and a great mood-lightener.  A lot of
>teasing and dance-joking inevitably goes on in the chase figures.  At a
>slower tempo, it might be a more subdued, perhaps duller, affair.

I think of it has swirly, with increasing energy from the beginning figure
through to the heys.  Then a drop back in mood to the beginning.
Definitely a head trip.

But the metronome is packed away in storage.........

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:12:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:11:33 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pine Woods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: berniceandjim-AT-
aol.com
Message-ID: <p04330108b6081c3f9cae-AT-
[24.8.188.38]>
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References: <20001009225727.20757.qmail-AT-
web1501.mail.yahoo.com>

Gee, if any advance information is available about English Week and 
English-American Week 2001 I'd like to see it as well.

At 3:57 PM -0700, on 10/9/00, Trevor Monson wrote:
>Does anyone know who is calling at the English Dance
>week on 11th August 2001 at Pine Woods please. I am
>sending this form the people who want to know, so hope
>it gets through OK.
>Please reply to berniceandjim-AT-
aol.com as it is them
>who are making the request and I may be home by the
>time anyone answeres me
>Thanks,
-- 
"Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies
Gary Shapiro <http://www.sbcds.org/contradance/whatis/>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:33:41 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:33:27 -0400
From: "Michael L. Siemon" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04320400b6082190eda9-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
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>I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was
>definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort.
>Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere
>between 104 and 106.

My own take is that 108 is a good "generic" tempo for this (and indeed
for a lot of the repertoire), pushed a bit in energetic crowds or taken
a bit slower if necessary to adapt to a slower group. If I start it at
108, I'm tempted to speed up, and need to watch the dancers carefully
to avoid getting carried away.

Michael
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:59:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:41:59 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pine Woods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001009.215423.-853473.7.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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Dear all,

The English country dance staff for Pinewoods English Week 2001 will be: 
Helene Cornelius, Bruce Hamilton, Gene Murrow, and featured guest Andrew
Shaw (a noted caller and dance reconstructor from England).  Bruce will
be offering his Dance Callers' Training Workshop at the Week.

Musical staff will include all of Bare Necessities, and others whose
engagements are in process.

Great display/ritual staff as well, including (so far) Yonina Gordon,
Kari Smith, and other notables in process.

As usual, I'll make sure all Playford.Slac-ers -AT-
 Stanford.edu have plenty
of advance notice once all plans are in place!

Any good ideas for a theme for 2001??  How about "Playford meets
Zarathustra??"

Gene Murrow
Program Chairman
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Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:59:26 PST
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:54:18 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001009.215423.-853473.8.gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:30:14 -0400 Joyce Crouch
<joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com> writes:
> I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was
> definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for 
> comfort ... here in Amherst I don't think we generally skip OR 
> skip-change on the heys

I think it's great fun fast (110 or so), with skipping for the chases (B
music), and skip-change for the heys (C music).  The music practically
begs for it.  Makes for a nice texture, as Fried Herman would say.

Once, when calling the dance at English Week at Mendocino, I made one of
my glib off-the-cuff attempts at humor when I noted that there's
virtually no "music" for the final cast and lead, and so "you only have
27 milliseconds to do the progression."  Had I remembered that Mendocino
is a few hours drive from Silicon Valley, I would have been less
surprised when old friend Fred Perner, a computer engineer, shouted back
from the floor, "27 milliseconds!  That's an eternity!!!!"

Gene Murrow
ECD Dancer, Caller, and Musician, and, hey, I only do the software

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Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:25:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:25:17 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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boo.net>
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Gene Murrow wrote:
> The English country dance staff for Pinewoods English Week 2001 will be:
> Helene Cornelius, Bruce Hamilton, Gene Murrow, and featured guest Andrew
> Shaw (a noted caller and dance reconstructor from England).  Bruce will
> be offering his Dance Callers' Training Workshop at the Week.

This sounds great, Gene.  What are the dates for the week?

Stephanie

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
steph-AT-
boo.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:00:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:58:29 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pine Woods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[24.8.188.38]>
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Gene,

Will there be a leadership track at English Week?  Please say yes! 
With the staff already planned there it seems like a no-brainer 
decision.

Oh darn. How about at E-A (A-E?) week (or who would know about that)?
-- 
Gary D. Shapiro
"Pat, I'd like to buy a lower case vowel in 60 pt. Cooper Black Italic."
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:28:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:31:02 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <00a501c03283$aa261160$4698adce-AT-
pstamler>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>

<<I think it's great fun fast (110 or so), with skipping for the chases (B
music), and skip-change for the heys (C music).  The music practically
begs for it.  Makes for a nice texture, as Fried Herman would say.>>

I go with Gene; we do it at about 110 these days. It's one of our
high-energy pieces now.

Peace.
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:29:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:38:22 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Subject: Gentle Maiden
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <v01540b00b60393ea610c-AT-
[155.99.169.140]>
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I've had a request to find a dance called "Gentle Maiden".  This is all the
information I have.  Can anyone help?

>I meant to ask you about
>the lovely tune "Gentle Maiden".  I finally saw the music for it, and
>hope there's a standard longways dance for it.  I danced a very nice
>longways duple (improper?) dance to that tune in Denver once (1984),
>before I had heard about ECD... "Yeah, we did this really elegant
>contradance, in waltz time--it was marvelous!!"

>If you have the dance, might you bring it?  In my faded memory of
>it, the figures bear a slight resemblance to the sequence of Childgrove,
>with the last 8 bars as a waltz-neighbor-and-progress-to-next-position.

>I wouldn't think it would be hard to teach, and certainly the band can
>catch on to the (very repetitious) tune quickly.

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:43:33 PST
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:44:52 -0500 (EST)
From: morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
Subject: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006093453.25095B-100000-AT-
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This is a wonderful effort by CDSS.  I've been a member for years but had
no idea we were making this effort to put Playford online.

The collection is a wonderful companion to the huge digital collection of
dancing manuals at the Library of Congress - "An American Ballroom
Companion" - see
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dihome.html

I was surprised that the LC collection does not contain any of the
Playford editions, since it does include other European texts.  It
includes several resources  well-known to English Country dancers,
including

Tomlinson, Kellom; The art of dancing explained by reading and figures;
whereby the manner of performing the steps is made easy
by a new and familiar method: being the original work, first design'd in
the year 1724, and now published by Kellom Tomlinson,
dancing-master ..; London, Printed for the author, 1735. 

Feuillet, Raoul-Auger, 1659 or 60-1710.; For the furthur improvement of
dancing, A treatis of chorography, or, Ye art of dancing
country dances after a new character : in which the figures, steps &
manner of performing are describ'd & ye rules demonstrated in
an easie method adapted to the meanest capacity / translated from the
French of Monsr Feuillet, and improv'd wth. many additions,
all fairly engrav'd on copperplates, and a new collection of country
dances describ'd in ye same character by Iohn Essex, dancing
master; London : Sold by I. Walsh & P. Randall ... I. Hare ... I. Culen
... & by ye author ..., 1710 

and many other texts by Feuillet.

Jim Morgan
morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:52:00 PST
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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Contra/English gap  [was: No contras at Pinewoods English Week]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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--- S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Roger Diggle wrote:
> 
> << I feel that, in some locales, contra *is* getting overly
> unruly.  I also believe that it's possible to have lively 
> contra dancing, with some improvisation, without crossing the 
> line to unruly. But some dance leaders don't have the 
> sensibilities or the nerve to instill a sense of that 
> difference in the dancers. In fact, I believe that most of the

> difficulty can be traced to poor leadership.  (I can go on 
> about this, and sometimes do.) >>
>
> Hear! Hear! Roger. Many times a dancer (Contra or English) can
> injure other dancers by their antics oops! actions(esp. 
> elbows).Since some dancers come sporadically and "may forget" 
> dance etiquette would it be possible for the announcer to give

> a reminder and/or  maybe the caller will reverse the 
> lead/follow roles. This gives the leader a chance to
> experience how it feels to be the one being swung as well as 
> being guided into the next move. Posting Vickie Bestock's 
> [et al]. verses in the halls and "johns" would be an added 
> delight!
> Sandra

I couldn't agree more with what Roger says, and Sandra, I think
that "antics" is probably the more correct term unless you want
to call it "lack of respect" for those who are trying to share
the dance floor. Sometimes I am tempted to be downright rude
back to these people. It's just as disrespectful as the people
who drive down the street with the bass on their stereo booming
so loud that it rattles my windows for a full minute after they
pass (well, it seems like that long) and it seems to be a
general symbol of our "me, me, me" society. There I go
generalizing again, but rudeness does seem to be quite
prevalent.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:01:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:04:08 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD Discussion List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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erols.com>
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I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are
done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes
straight through.  Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've
noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore-
Washington area) where they're done three times.  Of course,
sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough
already!"

I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this -- is there a standard
convention in your area? Has it changed? Why? (is there a
convention, why that convention, why that many times, why has
it changed)

Mary Kay Friday
Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:29:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:28:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pinewoods plans
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F229WuNDTGwvFd00002d07-AT-
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The deeply respected Mr Murrow asks, evidently in a Nietzschean frame of 
mind:

'Any good ideas for a theme for [English Week]2001??  How about "Playford 
meets Zarathustra??"

*****
My own suggestions, in connection with recent discussions:

How about "Last dancer standing gets the door prize?" Or, "Unarmed self 
defense on the dance floor." (Or even armed-- why not, this is Land of the 
Free, Home of the Heavily Armed, after all. Which reminds me, what about 
these rumors of weapons detectors at the entrances to country dances?)

Steve Corrsin


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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:51:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD Discussion List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10010101011570.19461-100000-AT-
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Mary K. Friday wrote:

> I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are
> done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes
> straight through.  Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've
> noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore-
> Washington area) where they're done three times.  Of course,
> sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough
> already!"
> 
> I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this -- is there a standard
> convention in your area? Has it changed? Why? (is there a
> convention, why that convention, why that many times, why has
> it changed)

I have noticed a tendency to do some set dances, especially three-couple
set dances, more than twice through -- I recall a time or two when we
might even have suffered a fourth repetition.  Definitely too much for
many, especially the progressive dances in which the same figures are
repeated for each couple who leads it; not so bad for non-progressive
dances, perhaps, where there are several sections to the dance.  Mixers
like Dunant House Waltz, Waters of Holland, & Ashford Anniversary are like
progressive dances, but if one were to take a dance like Ashford
Anniversary and put a 4th couple in the set, so that the repetition would
start with a different partner each time, I believe I'd be quite willing
to go 4 times through the whole sequence, so I got to do each figure with
each person.  But once through this cycle would be enough!

In a teaching situation, if I find that I'm still calling the second time
'round (which is quite common), and I feel that they will get it on their
own without calls the third time 'round, I'll often go right on into a
third time without stopping.  Also if it takes a couple of rounds to
settle down in a dance situation I might opt for a third round,
particularly with some of the shorter dances like Kelsterne Gardens.  But
a dance like Bonny Cuckoo I wouldn't repeat more than twice.

Another reason for repeating set dances, particularly with smaller groups,
is so that folks who weren't able to get into a set the first time can
still get to do the dance if they watch closely how it goes.  That, of
course, requires a stop, which is better after no more than twice through,
and then another round or two can get them in and those who really don't
want to repeat it any more out.

Eric -- Ann Arbor


> 
> Mary Kay Friday
> Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives)
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:19:56 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Stephen D. Corrsin wrote:

[snip]

> My own suggestions, in connection with recent discussions:
> 
> How about "Last dancer standing gets the door prize?" Or, "Unarmed self 
> defense on the dance floor." (Or even armed-- why not, this is Land of the 
> Free, Home of the Heavily Armed, after all. Which reminds me, what about 
> these rumors of weapons detectors at the entrances to country dances?)
> 
> Steve Corrsin

It's clear that there has been heavy supression of Cecil-Sharp-style
arming in dances, no doubt by those who would deny dancers the right to
bare arms.  This move, adapted from arm wrestling, has opposing dancers
approaching with left arms held up like a semaphore signal -- upper arm
horizontal, projecting directly out from the shoulder, and lower arm
vertical, with the hand held palm forward.  Dancers follow a path
identical to that in Sharp-style siding, starting out passing left
shoulders, but close enough that their arms strike each other in the
middle of the pass, at which point they grasp hands and attempt with all
the force they can muster to force the other dancer's arm backwards.  This
has to be done quickly, because they have to get over to the other side
and turn back to repeat the gesture with the other hand.  The arms should
be bare and preferably well oiled with olive oil; rubbing with garlic was
optional but highly popular and much recommended for a macho image.

The reason for supression of this now almost unknown figure (vestigal
remnants of which have been found cropping up in contras, particularly
where contra-insurgency is strong) was given to be that the olive oil
dripping from the fighters' -- er, dancers' arms created an unnecessary
combat hazard, one which reduced the ferocity of the figure and caused
dancers to be exposed to ruthless ridicule when they did the splits
instead of the intended figure.  But the real reason was the clandestine
opposition to the right to bare arms, and with the disappearance of this
figure from English Country Dance we have lost an important part of our
fighting heritage.

AEric the BOld




> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:28:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:28:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: tempo for Red House
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Joyce Crouch writes:
> 
> I just tried parts of Red House in my living room and felt 90 was
> definitely too slow for the mood/figures, and 112 was too fast for comfort.
> Without trying it in an actual hall, I think I like dancing it somewhere
> between 104 and 106.  

   Thanks, that sounds like a good compromise.  I suppose I won't really
know until I get some dancers and try it.

Jonathan

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:36:31 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:36:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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nOn Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Eric Arnold wrote:

> [snip]
> 
> It's clear that there has been heavy supression of Cecil-Sharp-style
> arming in dances, no doubt by those who would deny dancers the right to
> bare arms.  

> [snip more]
> . . . . .  This
> has to be done quickly, because they have to get over to the other side
> and turn back to repeat the gesture with the other hand.  The arms should
> be bare and preferably well oiled with olive oil; rubbing with garlic was
> optional but highly popular and much recommended

I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:49:22 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:49:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arming dancers (was: Re: Pinewoods plans)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Priscilla M. Burrage wrote:

[snippe]

> I was under the impression that garlic has yet to reach England.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ahhh!  There is solid evidence to the contrary!  The dance "Pilgarlick"
shows that they knew it quite well (the term referring to "peeled
garlick," i.e. a bald head)...  (   )

Eric

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:21:16 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Dances for 2001
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Well, you could certainly choreograph something to the Blue Danube Waltz.
Or, if you wanted to be macabre, "Daisy, Daisy..." -- perhaps the title
could be "My Mind is Going".

Peace.
Paul

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:31:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re:  Set Dances -- How Many Times?
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In a message dated 10/10/0 2:02:56 PM, you wrote:

<<I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are
done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes
straight through.  Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've
noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore-
Washington area) where they're done three times.  Of course,
sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough
already!"

I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this>>

Having called several set dances in Baltimore last night, I suspect I must 
have inspired Mary Kay's post. 

We did Ashford Anniversary three times through. It's very short, moves fast, 
and I've always found that twice through isn't enough, three times about 
right. Just a matter of feel, I think. 

We did Fandango twice through without a stop, as everyone in the hall was 
dancing. Can't imagine not doing that twice after going through the teaching.

We did Prince William twice with a stop allowing substitutions. Same reason, 
plus substitutions.

We did Shrewsbury Lasses twice, I think. 

In general, I think twice through for most set dances is right. Ashford 
Anniversary deserves more because of how short it is. Maiden Lane needs three 
times to get your partner back. I avoid stopping between repetitions unless 
substitutions are appropriate. I hadn't noticed doing many set dances three 
times through in Baltimore - haven't been to DC lately. I agree that many 
don't stand up to a third repetition without boredom (consider Upon a 
Summer's Day). 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:12:48 +0100
From: Chris Kenward <kenwardc-AT-
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Subject: 
To: ECD-AT-
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signoff

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:22:20 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:23:55 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE:
To: ECD-AT-
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Chris,

Please don't send this to the list.  The rest of us can't help you with it.
Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address.

Thanx, Ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject:
>
>
> signoff
>

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:33:02 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Apologies
To: ECD LIST <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Folks,

Obviously I fell prey to the demons of hidden headers.  I explicitly sent
this back to Chris, but magically it went to everyone.  Apologies.

Ric

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ric Goldman
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:24 PM
To: kenwardc-AT-
tgis.co.uk
Subject: RE:

Chris,

Please don't send this to the list.  The rest of us can't help you with it.
Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address.

Thanx, Ric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject:
>
>
> signoff
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:34:07 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:14:08 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pine Woods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20001010.152905.-853473.9.gmurrow-AT-
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Dear all,

English Week at Pinewoods is August 11 - 18, 2001.

On Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:58:29 -0700 "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
pobox.com>
writes:
> Will there be a leadership track at English Week?  

Yes indeed. Bruce Hamilton is offering his very thorough, highly
acclaimed leadership program concurrently with the English Week program. 
It will be a separate registration, and numbers are limited.

Gene
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Permanent address: <gmurrow-AT-
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Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:29:56 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:29:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD-AT-
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--- "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com> wrote:
> I had always perceived the convention to be that set dances are
> done twice through, sometimes with a stop between, sometimes
> straight through.  Lately (the last couple of years maybe) I've
> noticed many occasions (nearly all away from the Baltimore-
> Washington area) where they're done three times.  Of course,
> sometimes this is welcome, but sometimes one thinks, "Enough
> already!"
> 
> I'd be interested in your tho'ts on this


I've always felt that twice through for "St. Margaret's Hill" and
"Prince William" just aren't enough, and wished that the convention
encompassed three times through.  I definitely lean in that direction
for "Come, Let's Be Merry" as well.  Other set dances I don't feel so
strongly about. When it takes a fair amount of time to teach a dance,
it does seem a bit of a waste to then run through it only a couple of
times, unless it was a boring dance in the first place, in which case
doing it more is simply throwing good time after bad.  I'm not
certain how many times through "St. Margaret's" it would take to make
it feel boring, but I've often thought that if I were about to die
and given the opportunity to do one last thing, dancing "St.
Margaret's Hill" with my favorite partner and a perfect set would be
my second choice.

=====
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Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:52:25 PST
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:52:17 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[140.186.54.234]>
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> "St. Margaret's Hill" and
>"Prince William",  "Come, Let's Be Merry"

Now there are three dances that really don't need to be done more than
twice, with a break between.

The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:06:41 -0700
From: Gregory Hamburg <ghamburg-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Apologies
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
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Your forgiven

Greg
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:33 PM, Ric Goldman [SMTP:timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com] wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Obviously I fell prey to the demons of hidden headers.  I explicitly sent
> this back to Chris, but magically it went to everyone.  Apologies.
> 
> Ric
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Ric Goldman
> Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:24 PM
> To: kenwardc-AT-
tgis.co.uk
> Subject: RE:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> Please don't send this to the list.  The rest of us can't help you with it.
> Send admin requests to the ECD-REQUEST address.
> 
> Thanx, Ric
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> > [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Kenward
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:13 PM
> > To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> > Subject:
> >
> >
> > signoff
> >
> 
> 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:49:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:49:22 -0400
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <200010102149_MC2-B676-3277-AT-
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>>> perceived the convention to be that set dances are
done twice through<<<

The convention in Amherst, MA, is twice through, and that seems to prevail
at Pinewoods and most Balls & festivals in the Northeast. Haven't noticed
any new convention creeping in around here, except for offering to repeat
the dance for those who had to sit out. I'd be interested to know when &
how the twice-through convention developed.  

It seems sensible and right for most set dances, but there are certainly
times when I personally feel I've just gotten back my body-memory of all
the good moments from all the positions in a slightly unfamiliar set dance,
when the darn thing ends and I wish I could have had one more satisfying
chance to really dance it well. In a longways, you get more chances to
improve and work out the kinks.
 
Actually, I'm glad this topic came up so I can lobby nationwide and
internationally for letting Kelsterne Gardens run 3 times through!  To me
it *always* seems to be over too soon when done only twice-through.

I also agree that Ashford Anniversary is nice to do 3x, partly because it's
over quickly, partly because I find the tune so wonderful (when played
modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II), and
partly because I just love flinging my body around in those turn-singles at
that speed.

Joyce Crouch
Amherst, MA



 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:52:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:57:38 -0500 (EST)
From: morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
Subject: Dancing Masters
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1001006095016.25095E-100000-AT-
pearl.iupui.edu>
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I spoke to soon.  The Library of Congress does include one edition of
Playford from 1698.
However I like the Keller effort much better.  For one thing the indexing
allows you to locate dances by title, where as the LC collection can only
be searched by book title.  It also looks like the database would permit
searching by other fields as well, such as formation.

Jim Morgan
morganj-AT-
iupui.edu
================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:38:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD-AT-
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In a message dated 10/11/00 1:50:33 AM, joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com writes:

<< Ashford Anniversary...when played modally, without the F#s that crept into 
my edition of Barnes II)....

Joyce Crouch >>

I second the motion about playing AA without the F#s. Thank you Joyce!
Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:12:45 PST
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:12:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
To: ECD-AT-
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Joyce Crouch wrote:
 

  I also agree that Ashford Anniversary is nice to do 3x, partly because it's
  over quickly, partly because I find the tune so wonderful (when played
  modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II), and
  partly because I just love flinging my body around in those turn-singles at
  that speed.

Experience suggests that instrumentation and band attitude have a lot to 
do with it.  I have encountered dull "Ashford Anniversary" sets.  However,
give me a group with Allen Dodson on hurdy-gurdy and I'll do 3x and want
more.

It is, incidentally, not unknown in the Friends of the English Regency to
do _Black Nag_ 9 times through.  (The dance, not the tune.) 

-- Alan



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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:19:11 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
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Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
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----- Original Message -----
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>

<<I also agree that Ashford Anniversary is nice to do 3x, partly because
it's
over quickly, partly because I find the tune so wonderful (when played
modally, without the F#s that crept into my edition of Barnes II), and
partly because I just love flinging my body around in those turn-singles at
that speed.>>

As a musician I have to agree, both with the 3x and the F-naturals. It's a
great modal tune (check out "Ancient Dances of Hungary" on Hungaroton White
Label for a nice version), and playing it is way too much fun to quit after
twice through the set.

Peace.
Paul

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Subject: Re: Set Dances -- How Many Times?
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Emily said:

"The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start."

I would totally agree.

Graham Knight

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:52:27 -0400
From: "Martin E. Mulligan" <mulligan-AT-
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>>>> perceived the convention to be that set dances are
>done twice through<<<
>
>The convention in Amherst, MA, is twice through, and that seems to prevail
>at Pinewoods and most Balls & festivals in the Northeast.

Is this why Handel with Care is played 6x on the Simple Pleasures/Bare
Necessities CD?

And, just for clarification, when respondents talk about twice or three
times through, am I correct in my understanding that this generally means
non-stop as opposed to pausing after the first go round and then playing
the dance again?

Finally, just out of curiosity, is there any virtue in and has anyone ever
tried dancing a USA dance as USASU?

Martin

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Martin E. Mulligan
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mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca
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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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--- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> > "St. Margaret's Hill" and
> >"Prince William",  "Come, Let's Be Merry"

> The object of the all of them is to do them well from the start.


I consider the object of all of them to be to enjoy them to the utmost.

=====
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 CF1125-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> 
> In a message dated 10/11/00 1:50:33 AM, joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com writes:
> 
> << Ashford Anniversary...when played modally, without the F#s that crept into 
> my edition of Barnes II)....
> 
> Joyce Crouch >>
> 
> I second the motion about playing AA without the F#s. Thank you Joyce!
> Carl Friedman
> 

The question of to F# or not to F# probably should be directed to the
experts in early music and _musica ficta_ -- the failure to indicate
certain accidentals in early manuscripts and published sources is well
documented; some playing of early music before the conventions of musica
ficta were known or well understood therefore didn't apply conventions
that would have been used at the time the music was in vogue, with the
result that some of the "modal" sounds we have come to regard as
characteristic of early music don't really belong there -- but it is not
that simple to know when to alter and when not to, since the modern
concept of "key" and with it the regularization of notation regarding the
use of sharps & flats was still evolving in the 17th century.  (The tune
for "Ashford Anniversary" comes from a publication by Phalese around 1580,
if my memory serves me well.)  

Gene, or anyone else knowledgeable on the subject, can you provide an
opinion on what the likely practice would have been for the tune in
queston?

Eric
Ann Arbor

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