Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:04:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:03:31 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Choreographer and dancers needed
To: For Your Information <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <001101c01436$936911e0$7dc4530c-AT-
pavilion>
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I've had a request from Beth Sanford with the Christmas Revels here in
Houston - she is looking for someone who can act as choreographer (hopefully
in Houston or within relatively easy travel to Houston) to teach Breton
dances (from Brittany in France), since this is the featured country this
year.  They are also looking for dancers for anyone who would like to
audition.  If you have any leads, please get in touch with Beth at
bsanford-AT-
iapc.net or at 713 850 0222 X604.

The event is Dec. 7-12 and Dec. 15-17.  It is held at the opera house at
University of Houston.  If interested in dancing (and singing in French also
required for the
performers), call 713 668-3303.  There will be 12 rehearsals on Saturday
mornings.  The event includes the myths, stories, music and dance of Breton.

Any help appreciated,

Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:25:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 15:25:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Titusville, NJ, USA: English dance tonight, 1 Sept.
To: ECD mailing list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009011432360.19739-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
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A belated reminder to anyone who's in the area: the Lambertville Country
Dancers' monthly English dance is tonight.

When: Friday, September 1, 2000

Where:  Titusville United Methodist Church, Church Rd., off Rt. 29,
	Titusville, NJ, USA

Who: Caller--Sue Dupre; 
     Band--Peggy Leiby, Louise & Ted McClure, Enid Diamante, 
	   and Jo Anne Rocke

For directions/further info. please e-mail before 5:30 p.m. or call
609-252-0248.  You can also check the LCD web page at
<http://www.princetonol.com/groups/pcd/lcd/index.html>.

Happy September, everyone!

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 12:28:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 15:28:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Titusville, NJ, USA: English dance tonight, 1 Sept.
To: ECD mailing list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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p.s. the dance is from 8 to 11 p.m.  


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 10:41:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 10:41:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JTP0LSALBW8Y6LLX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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ECDers --

I'm leaving shortly for a week away from email.  I won't see mail until very
late on the night of the 8th of September.  If anything goes wrong with the 
list, I won't know about it or be able to do anything until then.

(It's not an ECD trip; actually it's a brief jazz cruise.)

Try to comport yourselves with appropriate dignity and reserve.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 11:32:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 12:55:33 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <008601c0150c$00221b80$66c4530c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <01JTP0LSALBW8Y6LLX-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan,
Darn - and I had all these plans to be undignified and unreserved :-)
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 12:41 PM
Subject: Alan gone for a week


> ECDers --
>
> I'm leaving shortly for a week away from email.  I won't see mail until
very
> late on the night of the 8th of September.  If anything goes wrong with
the
> list, I won't know about it or be able to do anything until then.
>
> (It's not an ECD trip; actually it's a brief jazz cruise.)
>
> Try to comport yourselves with appropriate dignity and reserve.
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 11:59:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 13:59:39 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200009021859.NAA06717-AT-
serak.svc.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dianna Shipman wrote:  

>Alan,
>Darn - and I had all these plans to be undignified and unreserved :-)
>Dianna

No fair being undignified or unreserved unless Alan is here to help.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 13:47:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 15:12:42 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <009301c0151e$c8e002a0$44c4530c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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References: <200009021859.NAA06717-AT-
serak.svc.tds.net>

We'll have to wait until he gets back and surprise him then :-) so let's
think about an undignified, unreserved (but fun) message for him when he
gets back!
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Diggle" <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week


> Dianna Shipman wrote:
>
> >Alan,
> >Darn - and I had all these plans to be undignified and unreserved :-)
> >Dianna
>
> No fair being undignified or unreserved unless Alan is here to help.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 19:20:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 22:20:09 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Easter Thursday
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <001501c01616$a6085770$65981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Peggy Vermilya wrote:

"One of the features of Easter Thursday that I like and find distinctive is
the balancing in and out, side to side (facing partners to preserve the
lines up and down the set) followed by a circle of hands four -- to me this
is a  distinctive part of the dance."

The way I recall doing this dance for many years was to balance out and in,
then side to side, and then turn single.  That used up six bars, and so the
circle four was omitted (see Fallibroome).  So are you saying that you omit
the turn single and, instead, do the circle four?  Just curious.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 01:33:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 01:32:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Easter Thursday
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000904083258.25648.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Peggy Vermilya wrote:
> > "One of the features of Easter Thursday that I like and find
> > distinctive is the balancing in and out, side to side
(facing 
> > partners to preserve the lines up and down the set) followed

> > by a circle of hands four -- to me this is a  distinctive 
> > part of the dance."
> 

--- Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:
> The way I recall doing this dance for many years was to
> balance out and in, then side to side, and then turn single. 
> That used up six bars, and so the circle four was omitted (see

> Fallibroome).  So are you saying that you omit the turn single

> and, instead, do the circle four?  Just curious.
> 

I remember doing it with the turn single as Pat describes, but
unlike Peggy's description of facing partners while setting, we
faced corners so a circle without hands was formed. The setting
from side to side was done such that it defined a segment of the
circle.

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 01:36:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 01:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000904083615.25789.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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--- Alan Winston <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> Try to comport yourselves with appropriate dignity and
> reserve.
> 

Alan, your're spoiling all the fun.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 09:41:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:41:47 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Easter Thursday
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001c0168f$047e62e0$07981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andy Peterson wrote:

"...but unlike Peggy's description of facing partners while setting, we
faced corners so a circle without hands was formed. The setting from side to
side was done such that it defined a segment of the circle."

The original directions for this part of the dance read: "Meet all four and
sett."  One might query as to how the "meet all four" is executed.  Does the
phrase mean that both 1st Cu. and 2d Cu. (all four) set facing partners; or
does it suggest that all four look in on the diagonal, thus forming that
circle without hands?

I'll repeat what I mentioned in an earlier post: that I suspect Bentley
interpreted this phrase as requiring two separate moves.  First, partners
met; then they set.  Having used up four bars of music, Bentley could see
that there was not enough music for turning single and circling.  Bentley
omitted the circle and gave the dancers two full bars to turn single.

The version presented by Colin Hume (Colin, I forget if this is your
reconstruction or someone else's) has the meeting and setting accomplished
in two bars; that is, dancers meet as they set; then there are four bars (12
steps) remaining to TS and circle.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:55:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 10:54:28 -0700
From: "Hamilton, Bruce" <bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD28BE56-AT-
alex2.labs.agilent.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Thanks to all who participated in the "dippy tunes" discussion.  Here is my
attempt at a summary. I'm afraid that I lost anything sent via personal
email - I am sorry. Thanks to Alan Winston for the tool to search the list
by thread. And thanks to several of you for the delightful reminiscences
into Weird Al and Stan Freberg.

There were many tunes put forth, but few respondents ranked their entries,
so it's not possible to present an overall ranking. (Special mention to Sue
Wartell for "Commercial jingles (mostly from the 60's) > My Grandfather's
Clock > Sonny > They're Coming to Take Me Away > Old Folks at Home > Swanee
River > Camptown Races > How Much is that Doggie in the Window > anything by
Tony Orlando and Dawn.")

Similarly, although several tunes were mentioned more than once, there were
too few entries overall for a tally to have any significance.

The real result was in the discussion (though I did genuinely hope we'd find
a ranking), which raised the notion that there might be several factors
involved, and a tune might be dippy or not depending on those other factors.
For example, several people mentioned "I know a song that gets on
everybody's nerves" and I agree; but the feeling changes dramatically (IMHO)
with "Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord." 

Two amazing coincidences occurred during all this. First, a friend whom I
had years ago lent some minimalist music (a simple theme repeated with
almost no variation for, say, 10 minutes) wrote to say "hey, I like this
stuff. Do you have any more?" (and while I was putting that list together I
ran across an anagram for the composer I'd lent him: Henryk Górecki = Hey,
king rocker!). Second, there is a discussion right now on the SCD discussion
list about whether "The Lewis Bridal Song," aka "Mairi's Wedding" is an
annoying tune!

Finally, to all you who got mad at me for making you think about this stuff,
you have your revenge: imagine what it was like trying to summarize this
material!

Here are all the tunes suggested:
-------------
anything by Tony Orlando and Dawn
Banana Splits theme song, the
Barney Song (aka This Old Man)
Camptown Races 
Chantilly Lace
Chicken Dance, The
Commercial jingles (mostly from the 60s) 
Dance of the Hours
Fandango
Flintstones, meet the Flintstones...
Golden Helmet of Mambrino
Happy Days are Here Again
Hokey Pokey, The
How Much is that Doggy in the Window
I Know a Song That Gets on Everybody's Nerves
If You Want to Sing Out, Sing Out by Cat Stevens
Iitsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka Dot Bikini
Jam Up and Jelly Tight
Macarena, The
MacArthur Park
Memories
Music of the Night
My Grandfather's Clock 
Name Game, The
Oh! Nick-O-Deemo
Old Folks at Home 
Rain Drops Keep Falling on My Head
Soldiers March from Faust
Sonny 
Star-Spangled Banner ["Anacreon in Heaven" is even worse. -bh]
Swanee River 
They're Coming to Take Me Away

  -Bruce
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 11:10:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 14:10:16 -0600
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39B401A8.27B096D7-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD28BE56-AT-
alex2.labs.agilent.com>

Bruce, I don't know *all* the tunes on your list of dippy tunes, but it
struck me that the vast majority are in major keys, and a surprising
number feature simple arpeggios in the tune. Further analysis might
yield an instructive monograph: "How to Construct a Dippy Tune."    ; )
--Helen White

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:43:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:47:41 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c016a8$fc657c00$1aeaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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For a number of years I was obsessed by Iceland, which culminated in my
learning a little bit of Icelandic and travelling there for about three
weeks.  Shortly after that, I mostly lost interest in things Icelandic, and
it wasn't until quite recently that I figured out why:  After I came back, I
asked my Icelandic teacher what the traditional music and dance in Iceland
were like, and she replied that Iceland didn't have any.

I was disbelieving; but in fact, I hadn't seen anything of the sort while I
was there, and I had been keeping an eye out for it.  Recently, I found a
website for the Icelandic Tourist Board, and sent them an email asking about
it, and they wrote back and said that my friend was right; Iceland has no
such tradition.  They referred me to an Icelandic music website, and it was
all jazz and swing and classical and baroque and modern.

I realize that Iceland only got their independence comparatively recently,
and so wouldn't necessarily have their own dance tradition (although they do
have an ongoing poetic tradition that's distinctly Icelandic), but I would
have thought there'd be some kind of dance scene based in Norwegian or
Danish dance at least.

However, what it's made me realize is that the British Isles, which are my
main dance and music interest, are so thick with traditional and historical
dance and music that it never even occurred to me to doubt that all other
countries were similarly well-endowed.

Is Iceland the big exception?  Do Norway and Denmark have a dance tradition
in the same way that Sweden does?  (I've heard of Scandinavian dancing, but
when it comes to naming specific countries, all I ever hear about is
Sweden.)  And how does, say, Scandinavian -- or other European --
traditional dance differ from Britain?  Is it even possible to generalize?

Many thanks to anyone willing to tackle this one --

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:10:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:19:37 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000904.164120.-508889.1.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
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Hi, all.

Ron Houston, of the Society of Folk Dance Historians, has written to ask
about the origins & history of the "rather complex family of dances named
Circassian Circle".  He notes that he has the following points of
information, "with scant verification."

Any comments, criticisms or leads for him??  


1	From the Folk Dance Federation of California Standardization Bulletin
#1: "The Circassian Circle was named for a comic Opera 'Circassienne'.
The family or clan formed themselves into one grand circle dance, known
as the 'Hermes necklace chain dance' taken from the Greeks. The
Circassian Circle is the outcome of such a dance." The dance described in
that bulletin is the common dance for a single circle of couples.

2	Maude Karpeles collected (date unknown) in Northumberland a medley: 

a.	The Circassian Circle (jig) for a double circle, couple facing couple,
resembling the usual British versions, such as the RSCDS dance. This
dance became popular in the United States under such names as The Circle,
Progressive Circle Mixer, Sicilian Circle, and Cicilian Circle, and in an
expanded version as Portland Fancy. I have instructions dating from 1930.

b.	The Big Circle (reel) for a single circle became today's commonly
known Circassian Circle. I have no descriptions for this version under
this name predating about 1950.

	Allison, what is your feeling about this apparent switch of dances and
names or about the "Hermes necklace chain dance?" Do you know of a French
dance derived from this comic operetta? I would appreciate any
information or opinions you could supply.
________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 15:28:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:27:28 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Easter Thursday
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130303b5d9d23b5555-AT-
[140.186.54.207]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Past tense of set is "sat"!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:41:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 23:41:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F226FKtFIFLTe9FChEg00002312-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi, Bruce--
  I can't help wondering whether the last song on your list represents some 
sort of comment on the proceedings. . . . but that was after I had already 
thought, "MAN!  I LOVE this list.  Where else could a topic like this 
qualify for such intelligent discourse and attempted scientific analysis?!"  
Sure beats most of my professional music lists. . . . sigh.
   Welcome home from camp y'all, and a happy new season of dancing to 
everybody!
--Orly
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:15:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009041708290.3804-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
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On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Hamilton, Bruce wrote:

> Thanks to all who participated in the "dippy tunes" discussion.

Sadly, I arrived too late to participate, but I just have to wonder how you
guys missed my personal favorite 60's ode to sexual harassment, "Take a
Letter, Maria."  Who could forget that deathless lyrical hook:  "You've
been many things, but most of all / A good secretary to me. /  It just so
happens I'm free tonight / Would you like to have dinner with me?"

Come to think of it, "Sugar Sugar Honey Honey," by the Archies, was on
top-40 radio at about the same time, so there's another one.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:21:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 20:21:05 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: traditions in dance
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000101c016cf$2e1fef20$07981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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Marian asked:

"Do Norway and Denmark have a dance tradition in the same way that Sweden
does?"

The short answer is yes, and what you would see and hear in all three (as
far as I can tell) are basically 19th c. folk dances and music.

Quadrilles and couple dances are popular in Denmark.  One form of couple
dancing goes thus:  some number of couples form a circle (man on left, woman
on right); dancers circle left and right, or maybe go into the center and
back; then all face partners and chain for some amount of music, at the end
of which couples then waltz, or polka, or whatever is appropriate, for some
number of bars; and then the dance starts all over again.

There are also dances done in contra lines, and there are probably other
formations that Howard and I just can't remember at present.

One Danish friend said that English country dances were done in Denmark in
the 18th c. by the *aristocracy*.  The national organization in Denmark that
promotes *folk* dancing throughout the country does NOT include those 18th
c. English dances for that reason.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:56:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 21:55:50 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39B452A6.46C067A0-AT-
sprintmail.com>
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Marian Phillips wrote (in part):

"Is Iceland the big exception?  Do Norway and Denmark have a dance tradition in
the same way that Sweden does?  (I've heard of Scandinavian dancing, but when it
comes to naming specific countries, all I ever hear about is Sweden.)  And how
does, say, Scandinavian -- or other European -- traditional dance differ from
Britain?  Is it even possible to generalize?"

    Yes, Norway and Denmark do have there own dance traditions.  In Norway,
different dances developed in separate isolated regions as I observed while
traveling there more than forty years ago.  There was an active effort to
preserve the traditions at that time and I presume one could find out more about
its successes by browsing the internet.  Denmark exported many of its dances via
the Bidstrups to the USA.  The dance weeks at Berea and Brasstown feature Danish
dances.  And they were being danced in Denmark when I was there. You might try
contacting Margot Gunzenhauser over there about that -- she is a CDSS member.
Margot is great about sharing information.
    Each nation and regions within nations has its own dance traditions and I
can't think of any facile generalization to differentiate these from English.
English has its own way of carrying one's self which differs from all other
nationalities and the music is more "up" and usually related closely to English
prosody but I leave it to others to flesh out that statement.
--
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 07:26:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:26:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Pledge
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009051009010.21940-100000-AT-
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On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Mary E Jones wrote:

> Mary (Laughter May Be Universal But What Is Funny Is Not) Jones
> Amherst, MA until October

Where will you be after that?

There's a smallish dance series (growing, but still smallish) here in Ann
Arbor that likes to import callers, but they can't pay travel yet -- so
they're looking for callers who are either 1) close enough to Ann Arbor
that they can get here on their own without particular difficulty or
expense; 2) travelling in or through this area anyway at about the right
time; or 3) sufficiently provided with time and money and interest to be
willing to come from greater distances on their own.  

The dance organizer generally provides a modest minimum guarantee, with
income above the guarantees split between caller & band with a bit
reserved for future operating expenses, so as the event grows it should be
able to increase the caller's share a bit -- however, the band is
typically 4 to 6 people, so they get a good part of this.  Hospitality
for the caller can generally be arranged.  The dance takes place on the
2nd Friday of each month from September through June (although it might be
on the 3rd Friday in December this year -- that's yet to be determined),
and so far September through November are either filled or a likely
candidate is already lined up.

My thinking is that you would be a very appropriate person for this series
from the standpoint of how your style of calling would fit with the
general spirit of this event.  If you are sufficiently interested to
pursue this, I will send you the name of the person to contact, and will
let her know that you are interested, too.

Hope your move brings you closer so that this becomes more likely!

Eric (not the manager of this dance, but involved with it in other
capacities) Arnold
Ann Arbor 

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:31:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Pledge
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009051028340.21940-100000-AT-
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Oops!  The reply to Mary Jones was supposed to be just to her but I
inadvertently sent it to the list.  My apologies to all.

Eric (back from Pinewoods in body only) Arnold
Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 07:51:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 11:00:19 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39B50A83.28D24B6F-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
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default> <39B452A6.46C067A0-AT-
sprintmail.com>



"Albert A. Blank" wrote:

> Marian Phillips wrote (in part):
>
> "Is Iceland the big exception?  Do Norway and Denmark have a dance tradition in
> the same way that Sweden does?  (I've heard of Scandinavian dancing, but when it
> comes to naming specific countries, all I ever hear about is Sweden.)  And how
> does, say, Scandinavian -- or other European -- traditional dance differ from
> Britain?  Is it even possible to generalize?"
>
>     Yes, Norway and Denmark do have there own dance traditions.  In Norway,
> different dances developed in separate isolated regions as I observed while
> traveling there more than forty years ago.  There was an active effort to
> preserve the traditions at that time and I presume one could find out more about
> its successes by browsing the internet.  Denmark exported many of its dances via
> the Bidstrups to the USA.  The dance weeks at Berea and Brasstown feature Danish
> dances.  And they were being danced in Denmark when I was there. You might try
> contacting Margot Gunzenhauser over there about that -- she is a CDSS member.
> Margot is great about sharing information.
>     Each nation and regions within nations has its own dance traditions and I
> can't think of any facile generalization to differentiate these from English.
> English has its own way of carrying one's self which differs from all other
> nationalities and the music is more "up" and usually related closely to English
> prosody but I leave it to others to flesh out that statement.
> --
> Albert Blank
> e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com

Of course Norway has a Folk Tradition. One example of the influence of Norwegian
dancing on the general scene is that "thing" that people do nowadays, occassionally
thinking it the only form of Polka ( the one with the walking followed by tight
turns). I learned it about 60 years ago in a folk dance group as the "Norwegian
Polka" but discovered, when dancing in the Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn at a local
Norwegian dance that they called it the Pariser (or Paris) Polka. I have a recording
of it under that name on an old record of Norwegian danses from the Dakotas-made in
the 1930's.

If you visit Bergen. Norway, as I did this June, be sure to get tickets for the Fana
Folklore evening, where they not only serve you a meal of traditional fare but
entertain with local folkdanses (in costume) accompanied by a great Hardanger Fiddle
and a one stringed instrument that resembles a mountain dulcimer.

Ben Stein


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 08:54:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 08:54:09 -0700
From: "Hamilton, Bruce" <bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: ECD Digest V1 #800
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <FC0B9DA2600ED4118F76009027AA5DDD28BE5C-AT-
alex2.labs.agilent.com>
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Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net> writes:
> ...it
> struck me that the vast majority are in major keys, and a surprising
> number feature simple arpeggios in the tune. Further analysis might
> yield an instructive monograph: "How to Construct a Dippy Tune."   ; )

Kind of like "How to Grow Kudzu"?

http://www.mindspring.com/~wxrnot/grow.txt

  -Bruce

bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com  Tel: 650-485-2818  Fax: 650-485-8092
Agilent Technologies MS 24M-A, 3500 Deer Creek Road, Palo Alto CA 94303
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 09:03:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 12:02:48 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: ECD Digest V1 #800
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130302b5dac98bcf4a-AT-
[140.186.55.33]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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What sort of mind would locate a site like that!!!!

So sorry they didn't have a spectacular photograph too!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 10:49:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 13:50:11 -0400
From: "Susan B. Booker" <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Set vs. Sat; or, Dancing with a Rotator Cuff Injury?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001001c01761$bf9d5680$6602ffd1-AT-
prodigy.net>
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Emily recently reminded us that the part tense of "set" is "sat" - in the
hopes of participating in the first rather than the latter at the upcoming
Atlanta dance weekend, I have purchased a sling to augment my dance
paraphernalia. No, my arm isn't broken - but checking literally millions of
books in and out of the library for 28 years, then hoisting one too many
boxes full of heavy antique "smalls" (misnamed??) from the closing antique
mall about a month ago has left me with an injured rotator cuff. I had an
MRI this morning; will see the doctor again on Monday for evaluation and
advise re. possible arthroscopic surgery. But meanwhile, there's that dance
weekend ....and while I'm sure I can safely waltz, anything which torques my
left arm and shoulder is out (I can still drive with reasonable comfort).
I'll be wearing the sling to indicate "caution" to potential partners and
others in the same set, and I'm while sure there are some things that are
best avoided, if you just pretend I don't have a left arm, the other 3/4 of
me should be able to dance just fine, although I won't be able to give
weight on slipping circles, etc.

So my question is: how many of you all have suffered similar trouble? It
seems that knee and leg injuries are commonplace, and back injuries fairly
so (had my share and more of those but time took care of them), but with all
the librarians involved in the ECD scene, it would seem that shoulder
problems would also be a risk. If anyone has advice for me, I'd welcome it -
and please, if you see me sitting out in Atlanta, ask me for the next waltz!

Thanks-
Susan Booker


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 13:30:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:30:51 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: past tense of set
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000101c01778$2eb8ef00$6d981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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_Modern English: A Practical Reference Guide_ by Marcella Frank (1972)
includes "set" in the list of irregular verbs of which all three principal
parts are alike.  The various dictionaries around our house corroborate
this.  Perhaps, Emily, you are referring to a less familiar usage?

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:04:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:03:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000905230345.13653.qmail-AT-
web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:
> Of course Norway has a Folk Tradition. One example of the
> influence of Norwegian dancing on the general scene is that 
> "thing" that people do nowadays, occassionally thinking it the

> only form of Polka ( the one with the walking followed by
tight
> turns). I learned it about 60 years ago in a folk dance group
> as the "Norwegian Polka" but discovered, when dancing in the 
> Bay Ridge area of Brooklyn at a local Norwegian dance that
they 
> called it the Pariser (or Paris) Polka. I have a recording of 
> it under that name on an old record of Norwegian danses from 
> the Dakotas-made in the 1930's.
> 
"Pariser Polka", which is done often here in Portland, is not a
polka at all. It is a couple dance with a series of figures and
is done to Schottische music. What you refer to as "Norwegian
Polka" is also called "Scandinavian Polka", although there is a
variation done in the Northwest called "Seattle Polka" (as if
they invented it up there). I've never heard anyone refer to
that dance as "Pariser Polka" so that name for it might be local
to Brooklyn.

"Scandinavian (or wahtever) Polka" is probably a newer dance and
may well have evolved in America. Traditional Norwegian dances
would include Pols (basically the same as a Swedish Polska of
which the Hambo is one type), Springar, Gangar, Halling,
Langdanse and others. 

Check out: 
<http://www.noside.com/> an American source for Scandinavian
recordings), <http://www.folkmusic.dk/frames.htm>,
<http://www.fono.no/folknettnorway/>
<http://www.folknetsweden.com/> <http://www.nyckelharpa.org/>
<http://www.musicfinland.com/> and <http://www.folkworld.de/>

Danish dance is the most closely related to ECD. Swedish and
Norwegian traditions also include set dances, but most of the
older dances are couple dances. The Langdanse (long dance) is
considered to be the most ancient form of dance. It is done
while singing a ballad and some of them can last for a very long
time, depending on the length of the story.

Finnish dance traditions have some connection to Sweden as
western Finland was politically controlled by Stockholm for many
years. There is also a strong Russian influence, most notably in
Karellia (much of which was annexed (again?) by Russia early in
the 20th Century). Of all the dances that my performing group
does, the Finnish dances seem to be the ones we like the most.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:52:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:52:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906005203.25366.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:
> For a number of years I was obsessed by Iceland, which
> culminated in my learning a little bit of Icelandic and 
> travelling there for about three weeks.  Shortly after that, I

> mostly lost interest in things Icelandic, and it wasn't until 
> quite recently that I figured out why:  After I came back, I 
> asked my Icelandic teacher what the traditional music and
dance 
> in Iceland were like, and she replied that Iceland didn't have

> any.
> 
> I was disbelieving; but in fact, I hadn't seen anything of the
> sort while I was there, and I had been keeping an eye out for 
> it.  Recently, I found a website for the Icelandic Tourist 
> Board, and sent them an email asking about it, and they wrote 
> back and said that my friend was right; Iceland has no such 
> tradition.  They referred me to an Icelandic music website,
and 
> it was all jazz and swing and classical and baroque and
modern.
> 

I wonder, if you were to contact such a tourist organization in
Boston, if they could tell you about NEFFA, Folk Arts Center of
New England, or CDS, Boston Centre. A tourist bureau might not
necessarily know about traditional folksingers or dancers. The
Icelandic folk traditions must be there, somewhere, even if they
are deeply buried under the influences of more modern music and
dance forms. There is a strong folk revival in Scandinavia right
now that, similarly to the English revival of the '70's, has
influences from modern music, including electronics. I was in
the Portland Revels a few years ago when the theme was
Scandinavia. The men did a song/dance (similar to a Norwegian
Langdanse) that was (supposedly) traditional Icelandic. I don't
know what source Revels has for this dance. You might contact
them at <http://www.revels.org/> and ask them what they have
learned about Icelandic traditions. 

> I realize that Iceland only got their independence 
> comparatively recently, and so wouldn't necessarily have their

> own dance tradition (although they do have an ongoing poetic 
> tradition that's distinctly Icelandic, but I would have
thought 
> there'd be some kind of dance scene based in Norwegian or 
> Danish dance at least.
> 
One thing that I learned while working on Revels was that the
Icelandic language is an ancient form of Norwegian. I would
expect that their folk traditions would have similar roots.

> However, what it's made me realize is that the British Isles,
> which are my main dance and music interest, are so thick with 
> traditional and historical dance and music that it never even 
> occurred to me to doubt that all other countries were
similarly 
> well-endowed.
> 
I have friends who come from or have traveled to foreign lands
and the impression I get is that, for the most part, we in
America are doing more to preserve traditions of our ancestors
than the people that live in those countries. I was talking to a
woman who comes from the Netherlands and has taught her family
traditions to her children. In fact her daughter had called her
from college just a few days before and thanked her for teaching
family traditions because her school friends didn't seem to have
any. She told me that her sister, who is still in Holland, does
not celebrate holidays in the traditional way that they did when
they were children. A friend who was in Sweden and Norway last
summer told people that we do all these old traditional dances
and they asked her why. All they do at evening dances are
waltzes, schottisches, polkas and foxtrots. And the Tango is BIG
in Finland now. If a band comes here from Sweden for Midsummer,
the chances are slim that they can even play more than one Hambo
tune. One exception that I have found to this muddling or nearly
complete loss of old traditions is the Baltic countries.
Portland has an Estonian sister city and every year there is an
Estonian dance group here for the Rose Festival. They always
perform and dance with us on a Monday evening during their stay.
They are very proud of their folk traditions and have kept them
alive over the years in spite of the Russians.

> Is Iceland the big exception?  Do Norway and Denmark have a
> dance tradition in the same way that Sweden does?  (I've heard

> of Scandinavian dancing, but when it comes to naming specific 
> countries, all I ever hear about is Sweden.)  And how does, 
> say, Scandinavian -- or other European -- traditional dance 
> differ from Britain?  Is it even possible to generalize?
>
The old Scandinavian tradition is more couple dance than sets.
I'm not sure how much is known of older traditions in Denmark as
the dances from there seem more modern. They are more like ECD
set dances. In fact I can't, off the top of my head, think of
any Danish dance I know that isn't a set dance. The Swedish
Polska (Norwegian Pols), a 3/4 time dance that evolved long
before the waltz, is more than 350 years old. I would suspect
that some of the Norwegian dances are at least as old. I'm not
sure of the origins of Schottische (Norwegian Reinlender), but
it came into the ballrooms in the early 19th Century.

Reading from liner notes off of an album by Sven Nyhus, one of
Norway's best known fiddlers, the music of western and southern
Norway has evolved in a somewhat isolated setting. The music of
eastern and northern Norway is influenced more by Sweden and the
common instrument is the ordinary violin or "flatfele". The Pols
(related to the Swedish Polska) is the primary dance of eastern
Norway. Edvard Greig, a native of Bergen, was inspired by the
western Norwegian Hardanger-fiddle music.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:33:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:33:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7b.939a28f.26e6f8e5-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Marian Phillips wrote:

 >...I asked my Icelandic teacher what the traditional music and
 >dance in Iceland were like, and she replied that Iceland didn't
 >have any.


Where is CJ# when you need him?


  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 18:37:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 20:36:21 -0500
From: "John M. Ramsay" <johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B5DB09C5.4C4%johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
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From John Ramsay in Saint Louis

Dear Marian et al.,

I can't let this pass by!  Indeed there is a dance tradition in Iceland, and
I daresay in every culture.  In fact, I have a theory that the more
difficult life is for a people, the more they celebrate life with music and
dance.

I'm sorry that I can't dig up the contacts I had in Iceland but you can
pursue them by contacting Sune Frederiksen for leads

 bsfrederiksen-AT-
pcsystems.net

The Berea College Country Dancers had a 4-hour layover in Iceland in 1994 on
the way back from Denmark via Icelandic Airlines (a delightful break which
included a free bus tour of several sites and a refreshing half hour in the
steamy Blue Lagoon).  My contacts met us at the airport with a few friends
and a fiddler and taught us a couple of Icelandic dances.  They were
Scandinavian, not native dances, but had their own style.

Dance traditions in Denmark and Norway are every bit as rich as the Swedish
and the English.  And they have their national organization as well as
living traditions.  Contact the Embassies for leads to those organizations.
In Denmark, Danske Idraet og Gymnastik Forening (DGI) has connections with
many different Danish folk dance groups (including American square groups-
one which uses a hop-skip step as their interpretation of American square
dance style, contras, and English country dances).

Danes today use the quadrilles of the 1750's-1850's as their primary folk
dance form.  They do some longways dances as well and a few of the older
carol type dances.  There are many links with the British tradition and the
European.  What is fashionable is not and never has been limited by national
boundaries even though cultural adaptations (like the hoppers) also are
bound to occur.

I suspect ancient connections between the English longsword and Viking
dances and have recently come across a Danish tradition of "set running"
such as Sharp notated when he visited Kentucky in 1916-1917.

You might check out Daniel Beal's Dances from Norway pp 80-88 for a brief
historical summary of country dancing. ISBN 0-9620940-0-5




> From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
> Reply-To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:47:41 -0700
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: traditions in dance?
> 
> Is Iceland the big exception?  Do Norway and Denmark have a dance tradition
> in the same way that Sweden does?  (I've heard of Scandinavian dancing, but
> when it comes to naming specific countries, all I ever hear about is
> Sweden.)  And how does, say, Scandinavian -- or other European --
> traditional dance differ from Britain?  Is it even possible to generalize?
> 
> Many thanks to anyone willing to tackle this one --
> 
> Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 19:30:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:29:17 -0500
From: "John M. Ramsay" <johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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From John Ramsay in St Louis

I have in my hand Offenbach's Dancing Without A Master published by Hurst &
Co in New York in 1876 with instructions for a Circassian Circle, p. 56.
The dance is couple facing couple, but at least the name is much older than
1950!  I'm sure ther are many other references in the old dancing manuals.

The single circle version was a mainstay of both EFDSS under Douglas Kennedy
and CDSS under May Gadd, both dacades earlier than 1950.  See Five Popular
Country Dances published by EFDSS in 1933.



> From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
> Reply-To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:19:37 -0400
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Cc: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
> 
> b. The Big Circle (reel) for a single circle became today's commonly
> known Circassian Circle. I have no descriptions for this version under
> this name predating about 1950.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:32:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:37:41 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c017bc$317956a0$f4eaadce-AT-
default>
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John Ramsay writes:

>>I can't let this pass by! . . . The Berea College Country Dancers had a
4-hour layover in Iceland. . .  My contacts met us at the airport with a few
friends and a fiddler and taught us a couple of Icelandic dances.  They were
Scandinavian, not native dances . . .<<

Now *I* can't let this pass.  I felt my original post was getting long
enough, and therefore didn't go into detail about how much information I
acquired about Iceland, but I get the impression that a number of listees
are disbelieving of the idea that Iceland might not have a folk music and
dance tradition (and I sympathize!  Really, I do!  Because I was too!) so
I'll go into more detail as to what I'm basing my opinion on.

John, you spent four hours in Iceland and met some Icelandic folk dancers
who taught you *non*-Icelandic folk dances.  Icelanders are justly proud of
their culture and country, and I find it hard to imagine an Icelandic folk
dancer who would know other Scandinavian dances, but no traditional
Icelandic ones (if they existed); and equally hard to imagine that if they
*had* known traditional Icelandic dances, they would have taught you other
Scandinavian dances in preference to them.

However, be that as it may.  In comparison to your four-hour layover, here's
my experience:

I spent nine months meeting for 90 minutes a week with a native Icelander
who, besides trying to teach me her language, also was happy to answer my
torrent of questions about her country.

I then spent three weeks travelling in Iceland.  One week was spent
exploring Reykjavik.  One week was spent staying in a farmhouse in the
north, and in making a circuit of the island, stopping in places that seemed
interesting.  One week, which I will always treasure, was spent touring the
western fjords in the company of an Icelandic folk group dedicated to
preserving an Icelandic tradition of extemporaneous poetry.

[I realize this is a total digression, but one of my favorite moments from
that trip was when the bus got stuck behind a car on a one-lane, unpaved
road, and suddenly one of the Icelanders stood up, declaimed a bit of
poetry, and sat down amid a roar of laughter from all the other club
members.  I frantically poked the German woman who was sitting next to me,
and who was the only other non-Icelander on the bus, and said "What'd he
say?  What'd he say?"

"He made a poem about the man driving the car in front of us," said my
seatmate, who was still smiling:  "It is difficult to translate."]

I have also contacted the national tourist board of Iceland (which, by the
way, is not a large country.  The last time I checked its population was
under 300,000.)  I have also checked every tourist guide I can find.  Rather
tellingly, the Lonely Planet guide to Iceland, Greenland, and the Faroe
Islands goes into considerable detail about the Faroese line dances and the
songs that accompany them, but has nothing about traditional dancing in
Iceland.

My apologies if I sound a little testy, but while I sympathize with your
feelings of disbelief about the Icelandic dance tradition, I have noticed
that no one here has any actual information about such dancing.  There have
been quite a number of general comments to the effect of "of course, *every*
country has a dance tradition," but as a matter of cold fact, no one I've
ever come in contact with has ever heard of any from Iceland.

If you can *find* any real information about such a tradition, I'd be
delighted to find out about it; I still find myself checking every book
about Iceland that I come across to see if it has something on the subject.

With more apologies for lengthiness,

Marian

PS -- My thanks, by the way, to everyone who supplied info about Norway and
Denmark and Finland; and also to Ian Engle for his interesting off-list
comments about the sagas and Scandinavian dance history.





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:18:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 02:21:46 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Set vs. Sat; or, Dancing with a Rotator Cuff Injury?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <009901c017d3$1ee16480$1098adce-AT-
pstamler>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <001001c01761$bf9d5680$6602ffd1-AT-
prodigy.net>

<<So my question is: how many of you all have suffered similar trouble? It
seems that knee and leg injuries are commonplace, and back injuries fairly
so (had my share and more of those but time took care of them), but with all
the librarians involved in the ECD scene, it would seem that shoulder
problems would also be a risk. If anyone has advice for me, I'd welcome it -
and please, if you see me sitting out in Atlanta, ask me for the next
waltz!>>

I've had it happen twice, once several years ago (curiously, right around
the time I was working at a library, although in a more menial job), and
again just a few months ago, cause unknown. Not much advice I can give,
other than two things: Don't reinjure it -- give it a real rest. And SLEEP
WARM!! (You may also have to readjust your usual sleeping position and
pillow arrangement to avoid torquing your arm as you sleep.)

Peace.
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:57:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 03:00:39 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Iceland
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <000701c017d8$8ddb2ce0$1098adce-AT-
pstamler>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi folks:

A quick perusal of Google and some followup led me to:

http://www.folkdancing.com/Pages/skandia/07islen.htm

(a description of an Icelandic dance using schottische steps, along with
mention of a Reykjavik folk dance troupe that at least existed in 1963, when
they danced at a festival, and a B part collected from an Icelandic student
in Seatte)

http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/DanceVid.html

(includes description of a JVC/Smithsonian-Folkways video featuring folk
dances of Europe, including at least one from Iceland)

Further investigation led me to:

http://www.folkdancing.com/Pages/skandia/indexdtl.htm

where I found this quote:

"Much of Iceland's indigenous music and dance traditions virtually
disappeared centuries ago in the wake of strict religious bans. What remains
is predominantly of later Danish origin. This schottische was taught by a
folk dance team from Reykjavik. The tune, an old folk song, was learned by
Gunnar Hahn from an Icelandic couple in Stockholm."

Which explains why Marian found so little.

Peace.
Paul



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 01:27:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 01:32:31 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Iceland
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c017dc$ffb0e180$f4eaadce-AT-
default>
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Many thanks, Paul -- and after my burst of temper, I went poking around
again, and found a mere scrap of information that nevertheless gave me
satisfaction:  On a CD of traditional Icelandic material -- mostly rimur and
hymns and a few folk songs -- there is "a ballad which people had danced to
in the 16th century still being sung by a man in the north of Iceland in
1969."  Which sounds like a remnant of the ballad dances that survived in
the Faroes, which I believe Andy Peterson referred to as Langdanse (?).

Marian





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 07:21:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:21:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Iceland etc
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F176JGjBWLwPWb00007303-AT-
hotmail.com>
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The comments about alleged Icelandic and other national traditions should 
remind us that, in many cases, the "traditions" (dangerous word!) were nuked 
for religious reasons in the 19th century. Various pious Protestant groups 
in Wales, Netherlands, and elsewhere -- probably Scandiwegia as well -- went 
after dancing as a wicked practice. Then in some places in the 20th century, 
when the pietist tides ebbed, folkie types (that's us, comrades) 
"re-"created the local dance traditions, often drawing on other countries' 
stuff that seemed interesting.

Something very like this happened in the case of the Netherlands. Among the 
leading figures in the Netherlands dance "revival" in the 1920s-30s were 
Elise and D.J. van der Ven. (Yes, yes, I know, they were also kept under 
arrest and barely escaped outright prosecution after WW2 for 
collaborationist activities, with D.Kennedy and R.Gardiner giving 
contradictory testimony, but that's a story for another day.) They drew 
heavily on Efdss contacts, and their book "De Volksdans in Nederland" shows 
this. Even the photos look like something out of Efdss publicity.

I know nada, nichevo, zip, nichts, about the Scandiwegian cases. But I 
advise some interesting reading: E.Hobsbawm and T.Ranger, "The Invention of 
Tradition," and H.Bausinger, "Folklore in a world of Technology" a.k.a. 
Volkskultur in der technischen Welt. While neither addresses dance, they 
have quite a bit to say about the invention (and commodification) of 
traditions. An interesting point: the words "treason" and "tradition" come 
from the same Latin root, meaning to "hand over" etc. Makes one think, czy 
nie tak?

subversively yrs
Steve Corrsin


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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 08:42:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:46:03 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Iceland
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <002401c01819$929ebee0$f698adce-AT-
pstamler>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <01c017dc$ffb0e180$f4eaadce-AT-
default>

<<Many thanks, Paul -- and after my burst of temper, I went poking around
again, and found a mere scrap of information that nevertheless gave me
satisfaction:  On a CD of traditional Icelandic material -- mostly rimur and
hymns and a few folk songs -- there is "a ballad which people had danced to
in the 16th century still being sung by a man in the north of Iceland in
1969."  Which sounds like a remnant of the ballad dances that survived in
the Faroes, which I believe Andy Peterson referred to as Langdanse (?).>>

I think so, with a couple of variant spellings. Curious -- I was just in a
conversation about these ballad dances with a friend from Chicago over the
weekend. I've been wanting to try doing a few at our annual dance weekend;
the tradition seems to have existed in English-speaking countries too,
judging by the existence of ballads with dance-related refrains.

Peace.
Paul


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 08:50:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 08:50:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906155019.18515.qmail-AT-
web1604.mail.yahoo.com>
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Awwright.  Everybody - FOOD FIGHT!

--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
wrote:
> ECDers --
> 
> I'm leaving shortly for a week away from email.  I won't see mail
> until very
> late on the night of the 8th of September.  
> Try to comport yourselves with appropriate dignity and reserve.


=====
Do you know about the Hunger Site?
Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United 
Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site.
No purchases - all you do is click on the site.
Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger.

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:22:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:22:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906162207.11556.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Awwright.  Everybody - FOOD FIGHT!
> 
Mashed potatoes with gravy coming your way!!!!!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 09:30:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:29:00 -0400
From: Anne Marie Edden <AEDDEN-AT-
gruzensamton.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2E6AAE3101FC4600-AT-
mail.gruzensamton.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Awwright.  Everybody - FOOD FIGHT!
>

A selection of delectables pilfered from CDNY.org's Playford buffet:


Liver's Triumph



Pecan Up Sticks



Melbalira




Lemonburlero



The Dressed Chips



Wells Hummus



Rye Me, or The Symphony



Mints William





King of Poland Spring


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:04:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 11:04:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Iceland
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906180432.26443.qmail-AT-
web3303.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net> wrote:
> Further investigation led me to:
> http://www.folkdancing.com/Pages/skandia/indexdtl.htm
> 

This page describes dances on a CD from Skandia of Seattle that
has music *and* interactive dance instructions. If you scan down
the page a bit you will find "PARISARPOLKA" and a description of
the dance by that name that we do here in the Portland. The
notes on this dance state: 

   "This figure dance for couples, with the typical forward 
   and back pattern common to so many Norwegian folk dances
   (reinlendar and feiar, for example) is the likely ancestor
   of the "Scandinavian Polka" (or "Seattle Polka," as it is 
   called in the Pacific Northwest) widely danced in many 
   parts of the United States.  It was no doubt brought to 
   American shores by immigrants from Norway during the 19th 
   century." 

Which explains the use of the name "Pariserpolka" for the dance
that Ben described that I recognized as "Scandinavian Polka".
Our director, Johanna, always introduces this dance as being
niether from Paris nor a Polka (it is done to Schottische
music), however it has enough of a Victorian ballroom feel to it
that it may very well be a dance that made its way from the
ballrooms of Paris to the Scandinavian folk "tradition".
According to Richard Powers, the Victorian ballroom dancers were
very eager to learn folkdance steps and incorporate them into
the dances that they were doing, so why wouldn't it work the
other way. Redowa and Mazurka variations being just two examples
of folkdance steps that made it to the ballrooms of Paris. There
are many Mazurka dances in the Scandinavian tradition, too.

We are all well aware of our modern "English" dances written in
the "traditional" style (or maybe "Playford" style would be more
correct in most cases) by members of this list and others. The
same is true in Scandinavia. We have a wonderful 8-couple dance
that we perform that was written in Sweden in the 1960's.
(You've heard of, and maybe done, the 8-couple "Rod's Quads"
that Tony Parkes calls? This one is as good as any of them and
most impressive to see from the audience.) There are some
wonderful modern Finnish "folk" dances and tunes, some written
by students at the Sibelius Academy, including some that are not
so "traditional" in style. We have one that we haven't yet
transcribed from our video tape of a Vancouver, BC workshop that
is a Square Dance (with some interesting twists) with a very
Appalachian sounding tune, but both were written by students in
Finland. (The written instructions we have from the workshop
syllabus are in Finnish and we don't know anyone that we can ask
to translate who speaks Finnish *and* has a dance vocabulary.)
Many of the dances we have learned at the workshops with Antti
Savilampi hosted by the Finnish group in Vancouver have been
choreographies for festivals, such as Nordleik
<http://home.online.no/~odflata/> and Kaustinen
<http://www.kaustinen.fi/ktk/kfmf-eng.htm>. They are the in
traditional style but may not necessarily be old dances.

One of the MGM "That's Entertainment" videos or their "That's
Dancing" video has a segment in which Baryshnikov states that
there is a lot of crossover occuring between different dance
forms and he says that he feels this is good. We all know that
this kind of "borrowing" has been going on for a very long time.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:05:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:04:13 -0500
From: "John M. Ramsay" <johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B5DBFC8D.4DD%johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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From John Ramsay in St Louis

Marian, perhaps our problem is one of communication.  What do you mean by
"native Icelander (see below)?  Scandinavians have been in Iceland for at
least a thousand years.  Do you then class them as foreigners?

I can well imagine that pre-Scandinavian culture and dance has been pretty
well wiped out just like so many "native" American (AmerInd) dances have
been lost.  



> From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
> Reply-To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:37:41 -0700
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
> 
> native Icelander

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:35:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:33:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906193320.15014.qmail-AT-
web1601.mail.yahoo.com>
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Sellenger's Ground Round
Dublin Bay Scallops
Fanmango
The Biscuit
The Gouda Man of Ballangigh
Beurre' Fair
Jenny Pluck Poached Pears with Raspberry Coulis
Come, Let's Be Cherry
Red House Wine
Soy After Sorrow
Trip to Tuna-bridge

--- Anne Marie Edden <AEDDEN-AT-
gruzensamton.com> wrote:
> 
> >Awwright.  Everybody - FOOD FIGHT!
> >
> 
> A selection of delectables pilfered from CDNY.org's Playford
> buffet:
> 
> 
> Liver's Triumph
> 
> 
> 
> Pecan Up Sticks
> 
> 
> 
> Melbalira
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lemonburlero
> 
> 
> 
> The Dressed Chips
> 
> 
> 
> Wells Hummus
> 
> 
> 
> Rye Me, or The Symphony
> 
> 
> 
> Mints William
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> King of Poland Spring
> 
> 


=====
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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:02:34 PST
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:02:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000906200215.16793.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Anne Marie Edden <AEDDEN-AT-
gruzensamton.com> wrote:
> 
> >Awwright.  Everybody - FOOD FIGHT!
> >
> A selection of delectables pilfered from CDNY.org's Playford
> buffet:
> Liver's Triumph
> Pecan Up Sticks
> Melbalira
> Lemonburlero
> The Dressed Chips
> Wells Hummus
> Rye Me, or The Symphony
> Mints William
> King of Poland Spring
 
Polly Put the Kettle On

and we'll have almost a complete alphabet from Peter Rogers'
Index:

A la Mode de France
Anton's Surprise (sounds like something made from leftovers)
Aunt Hessie's White Horse (we're throwing big stuff now)
Barley Reel
Barrel of Sugar
Baskets of Brew
Beaver Jig
Belfast Duck
Black Nag (more horsemeat)
Blackbirds of Spring (baked in a pie?)
Boston Baked Beans
Boston Teaparty
Brambles (the centerpiece off the table)
Buttered Peas
Butternut Squash
Cherry Stones
Chestnut
Chili Pepper
Corn Rigs
Cranbury Hey
Cream Pot
Dancer's Surprise (more leftovers)
Denis's Delight
Diagonal Surprise (you guys didn't eat enough this week)
Double Scotch Reel
Dr Fauster's Tumblers
Drops of Brandy
Duck for the Oyster
Dutch Kipper
Dutch Treat
Elbow Hook Mixer (anyone for a drink)
Fallen Leaves (more centerpiece)
Favorite Scotch Hornpipe
Fiddleheads
Flowers and Candy
Frances Ann's Delight
Frisian Duck
Frisian Duckling
Goose and Gridiron
Grapevine Jig
Ham Hoagie
Hamburger Special
Holly Berry
Hop Picker's Feast
Ice Cream in the Sink
Jack Pudding
Jacki's Favorite
Jenny Kilbrides Delight
Jenny Pluck Pears
Johnson's Special (Swedish meatballs?)
Judi Peels Apples
Juice of Barley
Knives and Forks (gettin' dangerous but left out the Kettle
Drum)
La Ballet Hollandoise
Mac's Favorite
Maggot Pie ( a whole book of delights)
Maid's Delight
Miss Arnold's Delight
Miss Avril's Delight
Monica's Delight
My Mother's Geese
Nantucket Sleigh Ride (isn't htere a drink by that name?)
Olive's Toy
Oranges and Lemons
Oyster River Hornpipe
Pat-a-Cake Polka
Pea Straw
Pinks and Lillies (more centerpiece)
Pint of Derby
Portabella (mushrooms anyone?)
Quiche District Quadrille
Red Bull (bloody beef?)
Royko's Ribfest
Sage Leaf
Sailor's Delight
Saucy Sailor
Scotch Measure
Small Beer
Snowball Mixer
Southsea Crumble
Suggar Candie
Ted's Mixer
Thanksgiving Swing
Turkey in the Straw (even if it isn't in the book)
Up with the Orange
Verona's Favorite
Welsh Rabbit
Wild Goose Chase
Wildboar's Maggot
Witch's Brew
Wright Butter'd Peas
Yucca Jig
Zombie's of Sugar Hill

I'm hungry after all that "Haphazard" "High Ginks" so I'll drink
to your "Health" after which I'll call the "Irish Washerwoman"
to clean up this mess. I'll leave her "Picking Up Sticks" and on
my "Last Gasp" go "Pell Mell Reel"-ing to the "Kitchen
(Hornpipe)" to "Hunt the Hare". After that I'd better take a
"Trip to the Laundry".

Andy in "Portland Fancy"

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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 13:57:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:54:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Andrew Engle <ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.10009061622.A26390-a100000-AT-
acme>
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, John M. Ramsay wrote:

> >From John Ramsay in St Louis
> 
> Marian, perhaps our problem is one of communication.  What do you mean by
> "native Icelander (see below)?  Scandinavians have been in Iceland for at
> least a thousand years.  Do you then class them as foreigners?
> 
> I can well imagine that pre-Scandinavian culture and dance has been pretty
> well wiped out just like so many "native" American (AmerInd) dances have
> been lost.  

	Just a quibble.  I was not aware that there was anyone in Iceland
prior to the Norse colonization.


					--Ian


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:43:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 17:43:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0009061743230.6598-100000-AT-
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On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Ian Andrew Engle wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, John M. Ramsay wrote:
> 
> > >From John Ramsay in St Louis
> > 
> > Marian, perhaps our problem is one of communication.  What do you mean by
> > "native Icelander (see below)?  Scandinavians have been in Iceland for at
> > least a thousand years.  Do you then class them as foreigners?
> > 
> > I can well imagine that pre-Scandinavian culture and dance has been pretty
> > well wiped out just like so many "native" American (AmerInd) dances have
> > been lost.  
> 
> 	Just a quibble.  I was not aware that there was anyone in Iceland
> prior to the Norse colonization.




 Irish hermits.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 14:52:46 PST
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:50:53 +0000 (GMT)
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Food?  Save the date. . . .
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <F128Ih7jtrSByh133tY00008716-AT-
hotmail.com>
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All this talk about food reminded me of the New York Playford Ball. During 
the break, there's always a lavish spread, and each item has an 
appropriately punning name.  Which in turn reminds me, that as chairman of 
the CD*NY Playford Ball 2001 committee, it is my great pleasure to invite 
you to . . .
SAVE THE DATE
APRIL 28, 2001
The evening's co-hosts will be our very own BEVERLY FRANCIS and special 
guest from the U.K. CHARLES BOLTON.
Hope to see y'all here!!  Details will be posted on our website, etc.
--Orly

_________________________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:57:05 PST
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:56:38 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
mhtc.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000906185557.00abb3d0-AT-
mail.mhtc.net>
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>
>  Irish hermits.

In small boats made out of leather that was previously used for slack drums.

mm

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:13:08 PST
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Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JTUV53JEEQ8Y84T1-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Bruce et al.:

> Second, there is a discussion right now on the SCD discussion
>list about whether "The Lewis Bridal Song," aka "Mairi's Wedding" is an
>annoying tune!

"Mairi's Wedding" nearly made it onto my roster. What's the verdict from the
SCD list?

>Here are all the tunes suggested:

These were just the mentions from other folks, rather than yourself, correct?
Otherwise the list is missing the ur-dippy tune It's A Small World.  Which
would Just Be Wrong. 

Because I'm at home sick and have too much time on my hands, I've been looking
up items on that list. For example, The Chicken Dance, written by Werner Thomas
(and others) is known as the Duck Dance in its native land, and was originally
written for harmonica(?). The guy who composed Sugar Sugar composed an awful
lot of other pop hits, such as "98.6." Basically, if we killed off the
composers of these dippy tunes we'd lose not only a lot of trash and TV themes,
but some music that we wouldn't be afraid to admit we like.

<list snipped for your reading pleasure>

And Helen writes: 

>Bruce, I don't know *all* the tunes on your list of dippy tunes, but it
>struck me that the vast majority are in major keys, and a surprising
>number feature simple arpeggios in the tune. Further analysis might
>yield an instructive monograph: "How to Construct a Dippy Tune."    ; )

I'll bet that we could get a highly technical discussion out of bubblegum music
and jingle composers from the '50s and '60s.  Stephen Foster (over-represented
on the list above), were he alive today, probably would be composing themes for
McDonald's commercials.

ObECD: There are one or two ECD groups, such as The Guppies, that make a point
of throwing "dippy tunes" and other well-known music into their change tune
mixes.  JON BERGER, do you have any thoughts on the matter?


Vanessa
(keeping her head down and her feet elevated)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:41:27 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 02:44:44 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <011601c0189f$7e86bd00$26ffdcd1-AT-
pstamler>
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<<> Just a quibble.  I was not aware that there was anyone in Iceland
> prior to the Norse colonization.

 Irish hermits.>>

Isn't that a type of spice cookie?

Peace.
Paul (cleverly linking up this discussion with the food fight in progress)




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:49:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 02:52:52 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Food Fight
To: ecd list <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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pstamler>
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Irish Hamentashen

Peace.
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 08:30:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:30:26 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b01b5dd64ceb086-AT-
[155.99.169.173]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>ObECD: There are one or two ECD groups, such as The Guppies, that make a point
>of throwing "dippy tunes" and other well-known music into their change tune
>mixes.  JON BERGER, do you have any thoughts on the matter?

and then there's Colin Hume's well-known fondness for "Nellie the Elephant"
which crops up in a couple of tunes for his dances.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:46:28 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:46:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: steph-AT-
boo.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 2001 ball dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: steph-AT-
boo.net
Message-ID: <200009071646.MAA19327-AT-
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Dear All,

We are trying to set a date for the 2001 Washington (DC) Spring Ball, and would 
appreciate knowing the potential conflict dates.  We've been holding the ball 
the third weekend in May, but the 2001 Fried-for-All is scheduled for that 
weekend, so we'd prefer to choose another weekend.  I understand that the Cape 
May Dancefest will most likely be the second weekend of May.  The New York Ball 
is the last weekend in April, and NEFFA is the weekend before.  What other 
dance events are taking place in April?  Is there a Hartford Ball on the first 
weekend of May?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
steph-AT-
boo.net

---------------------------------------------
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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 10:01:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:01:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Robert A. Brooks" <rbrooks-AT-
mail.wesleyan.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 2001 ball dates
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10009071259370.24279-100000-AT-
mail.wesleyan.edu>
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> before.  What other dance events are taking place in April?  Is there a
> Hartford Ball on the first weekend of May?
	The Hartford Ball is traditionally held on the 2nd Saturday in
May, which is May 12 in 2001.



						--Rob

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:56:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:56:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000907185641.25247.qmail-AT-
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net> wrote:
> <<> Just a quibble.  I was not aware that there was anyone in
> Iceland
> > prior to the Norse colonization.
> 
>  Irish hermits.>>
> 
> Isn't that a type of spice cookie?
> 
No, crabs.

Andy 
...more food

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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:02:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:02:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- Summary
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:
>...For example, The Chicken Dance, written by Werner Thomas
> (and others) is known as the Duck Dance in its native land,
> and was originally written for harmonica(?).

And just what is it's native land?? Do you mean that someone
actually admits to composing that awful excuse for a dance?

Andy, can you tell I don't like that dance, in Portland OR

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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:43:59 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:43:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Food Fight
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net> wrote:
> Irish Hamentashen


Is that the one that evolved into the contra dance "Shamrock's Delight"?

=====
Do you know about the Hunger Site?
Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United 
Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site.
No purchases - all you do is click on the site.
Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger.

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Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:53:47 PST
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:51:10 -0500
From: Larry Stout <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Chicken Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sun.iwu.edu>
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This past June I was in Linz, Austria, for a professional seminar.  One
evening we went to the local restaurant, Gasthaus Oberweis, in St.
Magdalena, for dinner and found that on the first floor below the
balcony on which we were seated there was a wedding reception in
progress.  This festive event had real local character-- I hadn't been
aware that there were pedal pusher length lederhosen which could be warn
as formal wear-- and had two bands, one fairly classical and another
which was much more folksy.  Midway through the second set by the folk
band what did my wondering ears behold but

you guessed it

The Chicken Dance
-- 
Lawrence Neff Stout
Professor of Mathematics
Illinois Wesleyan University
http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout

"Fiddling is a viol habit."  Anon?
"Dancing is necessary in a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:57:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:55:51 -0400
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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localhost>
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I'm reminded of a similar thing we were told about English folk 
traditions.  Several years ago, a few members of the American ECD 
community took to England several years ago.  Nevertheless, we 
were told my more than one person that England had no folk customs. 
When we explained that we had attended dances 5 nights in the last 
week, the man insisted that they must be either imported or a recent 
fabrication.  (In some ways, he was right.  But, let's not reopen 
discussions about what "folk" or "traditional" mean.)  

We found this attitude curious and asked our hosts Lionel and Joy 
Parkhouse about it.  They provided a rather lengthy analysis, most of 
which I forget.  But the gist of it was that some folks (pun intended) 
find parts of England's heritage embarrassing and that has evolved into 
a denial of its existence.  Much the same thing has happened in areas 
in the U.S. where religious beliefs have suppressed local customs.

Getting back to Iceland, I found a couple references in my notes to 
dancing in Iceland (including English country dances) the 19th century. 
 If you wish to read them, go to the web link and search (Ctrl-F) for 
the word "dancing":

A Visit to Iceland and the Scandinavian North (1853) by Madame 
Ida Pfeiffer 
- Chapter III  
ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/etext/gutenberg/etext99/vstil10.txt

and

An Iceland Fisherman (1886) by Pierre Loti (Louis Marie Julien 
Viaud) (1850-1923)  (Translated by M. Jules Cambon) 
-  Chapter V, The Second Meeting
-  Chapter VII, The Discordant Note
at ftp://sailor.gutenberg.org/pub/gutenberg/etext00/icfsh10.txt

====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 21:04:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 00:03:12 -0400
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39B82CC0.16712.1047E80B-AT-
localhost>
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In my editing zeal, some text in the first paragraph seems to have 
"disappeared".  That should read:

I'm reminded of a similar thing we were told about English folk 
traditions.  Several years ago, a few members of the American ECD 
community took a trip to England.  We were told my more than one 
person that England had no folk customs. . . .  

====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 22:02:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 22:18:22 -0700
From: Mary Luckhardt <mary-AT-
luckhardt.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: 2001 ball dates
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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mongoose.slip.net>
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This seems an appropriate time to tell you all that the Bay Area Country 
Dance Society (San Francisco) Playford Ball will be Saturday, March 31, 
2001, with Lise Dyckman as Artistic Director this year.

Mary Luckhardt
throwing some Bellamintas at Barbara Ruth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:13:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:18:46 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Hurray!  I found it!  I just spent the last 45 minutes searching for this
post, only to find it misfiled under Morris List . . .

There was no indigenous population in Iceland before the ancestors of the
current population arrived -- even the Irish hermits had left some time
before the Age of Settlement got into swing, so from that point of view
we're not talking at cross-purposes.

-- Just a quibble here, by the way -- the Icelanders are the least purely
Scandinavian of all the Scandinavian countries, thanks to a huge Irish slave
population they'd accumulated by the end of the Age of Settlement.  It seems
to have been the thing for settlers headed for Iceland to swing by Ireland.
Blood studies done in the 1970s showed that the Icelandic genetic heritage
was something like 2/3 Scandinavian to 1/3 Celtic.

I think, however, that you're less inclined to make a distinction between
Icelandic culture and Scandinavian culture as a whole than I am.  Icelanders
definitely make that distinction.  They've been there for a thousand years
in quite a bit of isolation -- and have the genealogical records to prove
it, too -- and they have possibly the best-documented culture of any country
in the world.  In fact, most of the information about ancient "Scandinavia"
is really information about Iceland -- and boy, don't they know it.

 . . . They do seem to value a certain isolation; immigration is strictly
controlled, and foreigners have a hard time getting permission to reside in
Iceland, from what I read.

I can believe that you met Icelanders who do folk dances from other parts of
Scandinavia; and they seem to have said, unless I misunderstood you, that
their dances were "Scandinavian" -- not that they were Icelandic, which I
can well believe.

We're probably just going to have to disagree on that one.  Maybe a more
fruitful argument concerns -- YAY!  Relevent ECD content! -- what our
differing perspectives are on how long a dance form has to be in a country
before it becomes a tradition *of that country.*

For example:  I used to belong to a morris team; I currently belong to a
longsword team; I do ECD.  Morris and sword have been danced in this country
*at least* since the 1970s; every team could be said to have its individual
style, and maybe there are even regional differences.  Yet, when I'm telling
people about morris and sword, I never describe them as American folk dance
forms; I always say they're English, and that's how I regard them.  I'm not
sure I've ever heard a U.S. dancer describe them as other than English.
However, you could certainly make an argument that at this point they're
both American traditional dances, and while I disagree, I'd have a hard time
coming up with a coherent reason why they're not.

ECD is even more confusing.  In its Revival form it's been here for around
80 years (?); I've been told there are definite regional differences;
Americans (in the "United States" meaning of the term) have been writing
dances and tunes in that style for quite some while; and yet I don't regard
it as an American dance form, I regard it as English.  At the same time I do
regard American Colonial dance, which by all accounts is almost identical,
as an *American* dance form, and I definitely regard Contra as American as
well.  So go figure.

BTW, I just want to say thanks again to everyone who's been willing to get
into the Icelandic question; I realize it doesn't have a scrap of ECD
content, but I also knew that if I asked this list you'd have information on
it.

Marian

>From John Ramsay in St Louis<

>>Marian, perhaps our problem is one of communication.  What do you mean by
"native Icelander (see below)?  Scandinavians have been in Iceland for at
least a thousand years.  Do you then class them as foreigners?

I can well imagine that pre-Scandinavian culture and dance has been pretty
well wiped out just like so many "native" American (AmerInd) dances have
been lost.  <<


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 00:40:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 00:40:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Food Fight
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000908074007.21997.qmail-AT-
web3306.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Do you know about the Hunger Site?
>

There's this question under Barbara's signature and here we are
throwing "food".

Andy

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 04:20:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 07:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: more on traditions in dance
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F260Hf7FrxUwQ3000082b0-AT-
hotmail.com>
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I would suggest that Marian Phillips' admitted difficulty in stating what 
makes American contras, or ECD in America, or morris and sword in America, 
"traditionally American" (or not), results simply from the fact that the 
received wisdom handed down to us, and accepted by us in the folk dance 
world, is myth (rather than history). Not myth in the sense of religious 
stories, but myth in the sense of an image or tale which provides a 
comfortable explanation. Or "heritage" in the sense that we academic 
historians use it.

Which merely goes to show that this AM I've been reading Karl Popper's 
lecture, "Towards a Rational Theory of Tradition."

Whenever folkies start slinging around "what is traditional," I paraphrase 
Marshall McLuhan's comment on art, and come up with, "Tradition is anything 
you can get away with."

Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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http://profiles.msn.com.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 10:59:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 10:59:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- "Nelly the Elephant?"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000909175937.5405.qmail-AT-
web2105.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Emma Rushton <rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu> wrote:

> and then there's Colin Hume's well-known fondness for
> "Nellie the Elephant" which crops up in a couple of tunes
for his dances.

What is "Nellie the Elephant?"

By mentioning that, you've got the tune to Colin's
"Unrequited Love" stuck in my head--and I can't remember
all of the words. I can't remember who wrote them, either,
though I think Sol Weber added something. They're around my
house somewhere. The general sense was that they wish Colin
had left that tune...idle... unpublished...out of the
loop....

We sang it at Pinewoods last year: should have done it this
year, directly to him, though I'm sure he's heard it
before.

--Lyrl Ahern

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:09:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:11:51 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- "Nelly the Elephant?"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20000909141007.016b2430-AT-
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At 10:59 AM 9/9/00 -0700, Lyrl Ahern wrote:
>By mentioning that, you've got the tune to Colin's
>"Unrequited Love" stuck in my head--and I can't remember
>all of the words. I can't remember who wrote them, either,
>though I think Sol Weber added something. They're around my
>house somewhere. The general sense was that they wish Colin
>had left that tune...idle... unpublished...out of the
>loop....

Gail Ticknor's responsible for the words, and, yes, Colin's heard the
song...  (~:

Sharon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:12:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:16:34 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Apologies
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20000909141238.016bb330-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry for the duplicate sending.  For some incomprehensible-to-me reason,
when I hit reply to ECD-list postings, the To: Header gives the list
address twice, and I have to hand-delete one of the addresses before I send
my reply.  This time I forgot...  )~:
Sharon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:13:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:13:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sue Wartell <swartell-AT-
cas.org>
Subject: Country Dance Weekend in Columbus OH - October 20-22
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <200009091813.OAA16335-AT-
info.cas.org>
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Now that September has arrived and summer has ended, I'd like to invite 
everyone to the John Shaw 25th Anniversary Country Dance Weekend with Bare 
Necessities in Columbus OH on October 20-22, 2000.   

Sue (for more information, contact me off-list at swartell-AT-
cas.org )                                           


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The dance will be held at:
          OSU Student Union Ballroom                                  
          1739 N. High Street            
          Columbus, OH 43210 

This is a large ballroom with a wooden floor and good acoustics.  Parking 
(sometimes a problem on an urban campus) is available in the parking garage 
right next to the Union.

This event is being held in honor of Mr. John Shaw and in celebration of 
the Columbus ECD group which he and his late wife Betty founded in 1975. It 
is a joint effort of the Columbus English Country Dancers, the Heather 'N' 
Thistle Columbus Royal Scottish Country Dance Society, and the Big Scioty 
Barn Dance. Come share three dance traditions. 

Weekend cost is $59  (postmarked prior to October 5; after that, the price 
will be $65 for the weekend)  Prices for other packages and for individual 
events are also available.

The program is:
                                                                                       
Friday October 20 - American Contra Dance 8-11 PM 
     Caller:Joseph Pimentel 
     Musicians: Peter Barnes, Mary Lea

Saturday October 21 - English Country Dance 
     Workshops 
       10-12 AM and 1:30-4:00 PM 

     English Country Dance Ball 8-11 PM 
       Festive attire encouraged. 
     
     Musicians: Bare Necessities 
     All dances will be taught. 

Sunday October 22 
     Engish Country Dance Workshop 10-12 Noon. 
     Dances will be taught by Jacqueline Schwab 
     Musicians: Bare Necessities 

     Scottish Country Dance 1:30-4:00 PM. 
     Dances will be briefed; program available on web site 
     Musicians: Earl Gaddis, Jacqueline Schwab 
     
Contact me for more information (swartell-AT-
cas.org) or to request a flyer 
with additional information and a registration form.   We also have a web 
site:  http://www.bigscioty.com/shaw.html  Details are posted there, as is 
a printable registration form.  A hospitality request form and information 
about hotels are also posted there. 



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 12:35:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 12:40:29 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01a95$cf22fd80$b9eaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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Steve Corrsin writes:

>>the received wisdom handed down to us, and accepted by us in the folk
dance world, is myth (rather than history). Not myth in the sense of
religious stories, but myth in the sense of an image or tale <<

I think of this as "duelling fantasies" and I'm convinced it contributes to
the hostility that sometimes arises between contra dancers and English
country dancers.  The idea that English country dancing is dull, stuffy, and
over-complicated fits in perfectly with the fantasy of a brash young nation,
land of the free and home of the brave, that's thrown off the shackles of an
oppressive Old World overlord.  Likewise, the idea that contra dancing is
for simple-minded Neanderthals fits in perfectly with a fantasy world where
London is a teeming metropolitan center of literature and the arts, the
village green is the epitome of order and peace -- and America is inhabited
by a bunch of hick colonists who are so incapable of ruling themselves that
England keeps having to send in the Army to maintain order.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 15:59:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 18:58:09 -0600
From: Helen White <kinaree-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #800
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39BADCA0.BC51E265-AT-
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References: <l03130302b5dac98bcf4a-AT-
[140.186.55.33]>



"Emily L. Ferguson" wrote:

> What sort of mind would locate a site like that!!!!
>
> So sorry they didn't have a spectacular photograph too!
>

Try this, Emily:

 <http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/houses.html>






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 16:08:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 16:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JTZ2CONJYM8Y8FLW-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Marian quotes Steve Corrsin 

>>the received wisdom handed down to us, and accepted by us in the folk
dance world, is myth (rather than history). Not myth in the sense of
religious stories, but myth in the sense of an image or tale <<

and writes:

 I think of this as "duelling fantasies" and I'm convinced it contributes to
 the hostility that sometimes arises between contra dancers and English
 country dancers.  The idea that English country dancing is dull, stuffy, and
 over-complicated fits in perfectly with the fantasy of a brash young nation,
 land of the free and home of the brave, that's thrown off the shackles of an
 oppressive Old World overlord.  Likewise, the idea that contra dancing is
 for simple-minded Neanderthals fits in perfectly with a fantasy world where
 London is a teeming metropolitan center of literature and the arts, the
 village green is the epitome of order and peace -- and America is inhabited
 by a bunch of hick colonists who are so incapable of ruling themselves that
 England keeps having to send in the Army to maintain order.

Very interesting.  I think it's more global than cross-national, though.  (I
speak in generalities below, rather than qualifying each one with an
acknowledgment of exceptions.  There are exceptions, sometimes major ones, to
each thing I say below.)

In the US, ECD is perceived - however subliminally - as the dance of the upper
classes, and contra as the dance of the People.  In the UK, ECD and contra are
typically done by the same people, and the ceilidh dancers and leaders, with
some exceptions (Hi, Bob!) think that the  D4D people are the bloodless snotty
aristos and the vigorous English ceilidh dance is the dance of the People - an
attitude put forth further by the idea that the ceilidh dance musicians are the
people preserving the historical folk tunes, and are themselves authentic
because they've memorized their repertoires and don't have to play from dots. 
(Those authentic traditional musicians - some of whom are indeed very much
concerned about learning things off field recordings or at sessions from people
who've learned tunes from the originators, etc, etc, are also the ones having
the discussion about how to get the sound guy at the festival to mike the
bouzouki as well as the electric guitar, and whether it's workable to use a
drum-only four-bar intro.)  [By the way, the last time I mentioned this
perception of ECD I got a note that explained that unlike the situation in the
US, the people who do what are indicated at festivals as "Dances for Dancers" -
that is, people with some ECD experience - _really are_ snotty and bloodless,
or at least old, tired, only interested in walking complicated patterns, and
unwelcoming to new people.]

In the US, many people who do RenFaire-style ECD think that the people who do
the stuff you're likely to see if you go to a ball in Boston, New York, or the
Bay Area -- there, I've avoided the problem of calling it CDSS-style and
implying that CDSS endorses a style -- are snotty bloodless aristos who dance
without passion or energy.  The fact that RenFaire uses first-edition Playford
as the dance of the ragged peasantry - because what else are they going to use?
there's not much documentation of what the ragged peasantry was doing in 1600-
only emphasises the idea that the balls-to-the-wall energy-over-precision style
is the way the People did it, and anybody who goes up a double and back at less
than a dead run has a stick up their butt.  (Not understanding that the stick
is supposed to go all the way from the ankles to the top of the head.)

There are some external factors that help to drive this.  What iconography do
ECD people use in publicizing their dances?  Quite typically, pictures of
upper-class people of some previous century.  Contra people don't do that,
usually, at least in the flyers I've scene.  Further, contra has evolved in the
direction of fast-teaching, fast-moving, everybody-active dances, and despite
the efforts of some contra callers to keep the older stuff alive, most contra
dancers have an experience of the form that involves a very high ratio of
movement to instruction, because you move even when you're inactive, 
the figures are usually pretty easy and didn't take long to teach, and the
dance is repeated 15-20 times rather than the 10-12 more typical for ECD
longways or the twice through a USA dance.  I think most ECD leaders feel more
responsibility for the older parts of the repertoire than most contra leaders
do, and that means more bits to learn, higher proportions of teaching to
dancing, and more stuff where the dance can break if somebody screws it up,
meaning more requirement to actually pay attention during the teaching of the
dance.  And there's much less swinging and much less sweating, which some
people feel are the important aspects of the contra form.

I think ECD tolerates people who don't pay any attention during the walkthrough
much less well than contra does; as a result, if those people try ECD, they
think of it as stuffy and bloodless and intolerant.  God forbid they should try
Scottish. (And, of course, some individual ECDers probably are stuffy,
bloodless, and intolerant.)

Psychologically, though, some people apparently can't feel that the group that
they identify with is good unless they can identify some other group that they 
can feel is bad. This works better if your groups are different schisms
from the same root stock.  Members of different Judeo-Christian religions  have
often been more mutually intolerant than they are of, say, Shinto or
Confucianism.  Fans of different baseball teams hate each other much more than
either hates hockey fans.  

My conclusion?  I think that the ECD/contra division we see in the US says more
about human character than it does about the dance genres.  It might be
possible to minimize some of the external factors - iconography, attitude, even 
dance selection, and better teaching can help improve the ECD movement/dance
ratio, but that it'll probably be impossible to win over everyone.  If a town
had two identical dance series, one called ECD and one called contra, there'd
still be people identifying with one series and denigrating the other, because
that's the way people are.

-- Alan

PS: Yes, I'm back.  I congratulate the group on having an on-topic food fight.
That seemed to me like an _appropriate_ degree of dignity and reserve.

PPS: I'm a little scared to mention that I'm only back for a week, and will
then be gone for another week.  Maybe I won't send out a special "let the games
begin" announcement this time.  -- APW


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 17:06:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 20:06:30 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Kudzu problems
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b5e080f71296-AT-
[140.186.55.49]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <l03130302b5dac98bcf4a-AT-
[140.186.55.33]>

>"Emily L. Ferguson" wrote:
>
>> What sort of mind would locate a site like that!!!!
>>
>> So sorry they didn't have a spectacular photograph too!
>>
>
>Try this, Emily:
>
> <http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/houses.html>

too much

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 18:56:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JTZ9WC6GB68YAVRE-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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ECDers --

I have received a request for information - an in-print source, directions, 
music - on something called "The White Hall Minuett."  (The "tt" is sic.)

Do any of you know anything at all about this dance?  I sure don't.

Thanks,

-- Alan

PS: I suppose the food fight variant here would be White Hall Minestrone. -APW


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 19:07:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 19:03:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kudzu problems
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000910020308.11073.qmail-AT-
web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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--- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> >"Emily L. Ferguson" wrote:
> >
> >> What sort of mind would locate a site like that!!!!
> >>
> >> So sorry they didn't have a spectacular photograph too!
> >>
> >
> >Try this, Emily:
> >
> > <http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/houses.html>
> 
> too much
> 
That's what everyone in the South says who has been trying to
get rid of it. I just saw on the news last week that it has been
found in two places in Oregon this year, probably from seeds
brought in by an interstate truck. We certainly have the wet
climate on the west side of the Cascades for this stuff to
flourish if it gets a foothold.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:23:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:25:17 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What non-ECD dances do you include?
To: ECD LIST <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKEEBJDIAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
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Folks,

I got an interesting question from a musician who recently because enamored
with a Regency style choreography called the "Congress of Vienna".  He said
he liked it so much for the music and wondered if I'd be willing to teach it
to his ECD group so they could dance it and he could play the music.

This got me thinking about the kinds of "bonus" dances included along with
an ECD program.  Some of the common ones I thought of were:

1) Viennese waltz (usually as the last dance, or before the break)
2) Bourree
3) Schottische
4) Norwegian Polka (which isn't Norwegian or a polka)
5) Hambo
6) Sveefacher (sic)

And I have seen the occasional swing dance at a contra, though not at an ECD
night.  Of course, I'm talking about a regular dance series, and not a camp
or other special event.

So what do you do?  Do you have criteria for what gets included or not?

Of course, I'll coagulate the responses and regurgitate a summary back.  :-)

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
http://connect.to/ric


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:41:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:42:20 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01b03$088723e0$62eaadce-AT-
default>
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Well, the tune is on the Broadside Band CD called "English Country Dances
From Playford's Dancing Master 1651-1703."

Marian

Alan writes:
"The White Hall Minuett."  (The "tt" is sic.)



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:58:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:59:50 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01b05$7a0e0720$62eaadce-AT-
default>
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-- And the liner notes say "11th edition 1701."
M.



Well, the tune is on the Broadside Band CD called "English Country Dances
>From Playford's Dancing Master 1651-1703."

Marian

Alan writes:
"The White Hall Minuett."  (The "tt" is sic.)





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 05:56:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:51:50 -0700
From: srotenbe-AT-
impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: What non-ECD dances do you include?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39BBAE16.CE592229-AT-
mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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References: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKEEBJDIAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>

Ric,
In the last couple of years many CDSS dance weeks have ended the evening dance
with a song, everyone standing in a circle singing together.  It brings the
community back together after the couple waltz. This is not exactally what
you're asking for but I think it's a nice new tradition. I haven't seen any
other dances than the ones you've listed. The last, I believe is spelled
zweifacher.

Sandy Rotenberg

Ric Goldman wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I got an interesting question from a musician who recently because enamored
> with a Regency style choreography called the "Congress of Vienna".  He said
> he liked it so much for the music and wondered if I'd be willing to teach it
> to his ECD group so they could dance it and he could play the music.
>
> This got me thinking about the kinds of "bonus" dances included along with
> an ECD program.  Some of the common ones I thought of were:
>
> 1) Viennese waltz (usually as the last dance, or before the break)
> 2) Bourree
> 3) Schottische
> 4) Norwegian Polka (which isn't Norwegian or a polka)
> 5) Hambo
> 6) Sveefacher (sic)
>
> And I have seen the occasional swing dance at a contra, though not at an ECD
> night.  Of course, I'm talking about a regular dance series, and not a camp
> or other special event.
>
> So what do you do?  Do you have criteria for what gets included or not?
>
> Of course, I'll coagulate the responses and regurgitate a summary back.  :-)
>
> Thanx, Ric Goldman
> timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
> http://connect.to/ric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:53:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JTZ9WC6GB68YAVRE-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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ECDers --

I have received a request for information - an in-print source, directions, 
music - on something called "The White Hall Minuett."  (The "tt" is sic.)

Do any of you know anything at all about this dance?  I sure don't.

Thanks,

-- Alan

PS: I suppose the food fight variant here would be White Hall Minestrone. -APW


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:16:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:21:42 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01b6d$1d694f80$a4eaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alan, what do you mean by "dances for dancers"?  Also, what is a USA dance,
as in "the twice through of a USA dance"?

I had no idea about the class issues (if that's the word for it) in the
dance scene in England.  What kinds of dances are the ceilidh
dancers/musicians doing that distinguish them from the other type of
dancers?  Are they pulling from the same dance repertoire, but with a
different style, or what?

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:24:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:25:22 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39BBFC42.4BBF-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk>
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A modern source was Packington's Pound edited by Tom Cook and published
by Cotswold Music. I am not sure it is still in print but I will make
enquiries.

The dance works very well as a minuet as it was given an airing at the
Grand Union of Dancers weekend in 1996.

Graham Knight


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:24:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:26:58 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Alan gone for a week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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web1601.mail.yahoo.com>

Or could it be that while the cat's away the mouse is playing with the
cheese.

Graham and Wendy Knight

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:28:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:27:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0009101726330.1826-100000-AT-
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nOn Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Marian Phillips wrote:

> Alan, what do you mean by "dances for dancers"?  Also, what is a USA dance,
> as in "the twice through of a USA dance"?


  "USA" is what I call "archetypal Playford", with the stock three
figures. (As the first figure is not _always_ "Up and back". Sometimes it
is "in and out", or "left and right").
Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:44:58 PST
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:44:29 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b5e1b11541e7-AT-
[140.186.55.164]>
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a USA dance is an "U p a double, S iding and A rming" dance.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:00:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:00:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000910174812.4150B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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To all inquiring about the original sources of Playford, and whether they
are "folk" or "traditional":

It is wonderful to see the American and the British sides arguing on this
issue, both citing imaginative but absolutely unproved theories as to the
origins of contras vs. country dances!

I hope the following will help reduce the argument to the data available:

1. In my research into the origins of the dances in the Playford
collections of the 17th century, it has begun to appear more and more
likely that London dancing masters created the vast body of "country
dances" that originated in the 17th century.  Some of the dances appear to
have been traditional, cited in various sources of the 16th century as
done by what we would call "folk."  Most are not.  They were composed for
the elite who went to dancing school or had private dance tutors.

This does NOT mean they were done in a bloodless way, but by educated and
monied people who appreciated a certain elegance in style.  Please
remember that young gentlemen learned to fence and ride when they learned
to dance, sometimes from the same tutors.  The strength and pride revealed
beneath the grace was an important part of the style we are still trying
to rediscover.  Those who do them bloodlessly and without spirit today
don't know what they are doing!

2.  To the best of my knowledge, "contra"-dancing developed out of the
country dances on the American side, but was originally taught by dancing
masters trying to emulate country dance.  When lower classes (don't forget
class distinctions were made until at least the 19th century) tried to do
the same dances, they were not quite so elegant.  The resemblance to a
modern football scrimmage which is now so common in contradancing did not
exist, however.!!!

Julia Sutton 




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:37:56 PST
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:37:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JU0GT3I5FS8YAPKZ-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Marian wrote:

  Alan, what do you mean by "dances for dancers"?  Also, what is a USA dance,
  as in "the twice through of a USA dance"?

A couple of people have already said that a USA dance is a first-edition
Playford with three stock figures (usually Up-a-double-and-back, Siding, and 
Arming), which is what I meant.  "Dance for dancers" (or D4D) appears to be
what English folk festivals put on the program for sessions where you're
expected to already know how to do a circular hey.

  I had no idea about the class issues (if that's the word for it) in the
  dance scene in England.  What kinds of dances are the ceilidh
  dancers/musicians doing that distinguish them from the other type of
  dancers?  Are they pulling from the same dance repertoire, but with a
  different style, or what?

Since no Brits have answered yet, I'll expand on this, although I mostly have
this second-hand.  The ceilidh-dance repertoire has a lot of overlap with the
Community Dance Manuals - simple, vigorous dances which often have
opportunities for vigorous stepping, whether that's hop-step, rant, or polka.
Lots of whole-set dances, where there isn't a minor set.  (The favorite duple
minor appears to be "Nottingham Swing.")  The last dance is more typically a
polka than a waltz.

The music is played with a real emphasis on the beat - some ceilidh bands are
made up of morris musicians.  Like American contra, typically there isn't a
specific tune for a specific dance.  The caller asks for 5x32bars of jigs, and
the band figures out what tune set they have that will work.  Although modern
ceilidh musicians compose new material, and some of them play in styles
influenced by French, African, reggae, rock-and-roll, etc, there is a big
emphasis on using tunes from the rural English tradition, rather than the sissy
classical-esque stuff often found in Barnes.  D4D musicians are expected to be
able to play most anything by sight, given the music.  Some ceilidh musicians
don't read music.  (Also true for some excellent American contra musicians.)
Instrumentation usually includes drum or some other rhythm instrument, and
there's a preference for punchy melodeons and concertinas over draggy 
accordions.

Some reputable bands in this tradition: Burlesdon Village Band, Old Swan Band,
Flowers & Frolics, Blowzabella, Tickled Pink, Old Hat Band, the Committee Band.

In the right mood, especially with appropriate lubrication, ceilidh dance can
be a lot of fun.  I'm interested in getting it started in the Bay Area,
although there are of course issues of musicians - Jon Berger and Rob Powell
pulled together "Uncle Jack's Tie-Dyed Ramblers" for Jonathan Coxhead's ceilidh
set at the Free Folk Festival - and callers.  (Jonathan Coxhead called ceilidhs
in England, and I'm interested in working on this stuff too.)

We'll have some English ceilidh material at BACDS Fall Dance Weekend
(http://www.bacds.org/fw/) , with Alisa Dodson calling.  Hope to see you \
there!

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:35:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:29:53 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00aa01c01b7f$db6379e0$67e0490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JU0GT3I5FS8YAPKZ-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

I'm trying to get a ceilidh group started in Houston and would be interested
in sharing ideas and info.
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance


>
> Marian wrote:
>
>   Alan, what do you mean by "dances for dancers"?  Also, what is a USA
dance,
>   as in "the twice through of a USA dance"?
>
> A couple of people have already said that a USA dance is a first-edition
> Playford with three stock figures (usually Up-a-double-and-back, Siding,
and
> Arming), which is what I meant.  "Dance for dancers" (or D4D) appears to
be
> what English folk festivals put on the program for sessions where you're
> expected to already know how to do a circular hey.
>
>   I had no idea about the class issues (if that's the word for it) in the
>   dance scene in England.  What kinds of dances are the ceilidh
>   dancers/musicians doing that distinguish them from the other type of
>   dancers?  Are they pulling from the same dance repertoire, but with a
>   different style, or what?
>
> Since no Brits have answered yet, I'll expand on this, although I mostly
have
> this second-hand.  The ceilidh-dance repertoire has a lot of overlap with
the
> Community Dance Manuals - simple, vigorous dances which often have
> opportunities for vigorous stepping, whether that's hop-step, rant, or
polka.
> Lots of whole-set dances, where there isn't a minor set.  (The favorite
duple
> minor appears to be "Nottingham Swing.")  The last dance is more typically
a
> polka than a waltz.
>
> The music is played with a real emphasis on the beat - some ceilidh bands
are
> made up of morris musicians.  Like American contra, typically there isn't
a
> specific tune for a specific dance.  The caller asks for 5x32bars of jigs,
and
> the band figures out what tune set they have that will work.  Although
modern
> ceilidh musicians compose new material, and some of them play in styles
> influenced by French, African, reggae, rock-and-roll, etc, there is a big
> emphasis on using tunes from the rural English tradition, rather than the
sissy
> classical-esque stuff often found in Barnes.  D4D musicians are expected
to be
> able to play most anything by sight, given the music.  Some ceilidh
musicians
> don't read music.  (Also true for some excellent American contra
musicians.)
> Instrumentation usually includes drum or some other rhythm instrument, and
> there's a preference for punchy melodeons and concertinas over draggy
> accordions.
>
> Some reputable bands in this tradition: Burlesdon Village Band, Old Swan
Band,
> Flowers & Frolics, Blowzabella, Tickled Pink, Old Hat Band, the Committee
Band.
>
> In the right mood, especially with appropriate lubrication, ceilidh dance
can
> be a lot of fun.  I'm interested in getting it started in the Bay Area,
> although there are of course issues of musicians - Jon Berger and Rob
Powell
> pulled together "Uncle Jack's Tie-Dyed Ramblers" for Jonathan Coxhead's
ceilidh
> set at the Free Folk Festival - and callers.  (Jonathan Coxhead called
ceilidhs
> in England, and I'm interested in working on this stuff too.)
>
> We'll have some English ceilidh material at BACDS Fall Dance Weekend
> (http://www.bacds.org/fw/) , with Alisa Dodson calling.  Hope to see you \
> there!
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:07:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:06:15 -0500
From: "John M. Ramsay" <johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <B5E1A322.514%johnberni-AT-
postnet.com>
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Content-Type: text/plain
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From John Ramsay in St Louis

I, too, think the discussion on Iceland has been fruitful and pertinent.
Words are shifty entities; in my soon to be published book I call
dictionaries "morgues for mutilated ideas."  It is nigh impossible to pin
them down like mounted butterflies.

Regarding morris and sword: Sharp began the morris and sword revival in
1899.  He demonstrated them on his visits to the USA ~1916-17.  I began
dancing them in 1947 in Berea, Kentucky.  Pinewoods Morris Men, the first
formalized side, started in the 1960's.  Does anyone have the reference,
buried somewhere in the American Morris Newsletter, about the Morris Men
going ashore in Hudson Bay in the 16th century?  It's not in Forrest's The
History of Moris Dancing.

Regarding the word American or even North American, Canadians and Mexicans
do not lay claim to it.  They prefer to be called Canadians and Mexicans.
American is normally used to refer to citizens of the United States hwether
we are paranoid about it or not.

Thanks Marian for your helpful comments on terminology.

> From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
> Reply-To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:18:46 -0700
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
> 
> Morris and sword have been danced in this country
> *at least* since the 1970s

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:59:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:02:41 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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pstamler>
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References: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000910174812.4150B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance



<<2.  To the best of my knowledge, "contra"-dancing developed out of the
country dances on the American side, but was originally taught by dancing
masters trying to emulate country dance.  When lower classes (don't forget
class distinctions were made until at least the 19th century) tried to do
the same dances, they were not quite so elegant.  The resemblance to a
modern football scrimmage which is now so common in contradancing did not
exist, however.!!!>>

Which elements of a football scrimmage are common in contradancing? I've
been to quite a few contra-dances in my time, and have yet to see people
deliberately colliding with one another, elbowing each other in the ribs,
attempting to throw one another to the ground, or for that matter throwing
balls back and forth -- all of which seem to be central features of American
football, to my uneducated eye. Nor are most of them wearing helmets, or
smudges of dirt on their cheekbones. So I'm not sure I see the resemblance.

I do, however, see quite a few people dancing and having a good time.

Peace.
Paul








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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:55:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ian Andrew Engle <ianengle-AT-
gcfn.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

> a USA dance is an "U p a double, S iding and A rming" dance.

	One will also occasionally find these referred to as DSA dances:
Doubling, Siding, Arming.


					--Ian




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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:18:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kudzu problems
To: ECD-AT-
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On Sat, 9 Sep 2000, Emily L. Ferguson wrote:

[snip]

> >> So sorry they didn't have a spectacular photograph too!
> >>
> >
> >Try this, Emily:
> >
> > <http://www.jjanthony.com/kudzu/houses.html>
> 
> too much

Just think, Emily, with a bit more global warming that stuff could be all
over Cape Cod...   

Eric


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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:29:43 -0500
From: Bob Borcherding <gapbob-AT-
swbell.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kudzu problems
To: ECD-AT-
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on 9/11/00 8:18 AM, Eric Arnold at eba-AT-
umich.edu wrote:

> Just think, Emily, with a bit more global warming that stuff could be all
> over Cape Cod... 
> 
> Eric

Then it might be Cape Codzu??

-- Robert Borcherding
http://home.swbell.net/gapbob
gapbob-AT-
swbell.net


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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:51:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> 
> Marian wrote:

[snip]

  What kinds of dances are the ceilidh
>   dancers/musicians doing that distinguish them from the other type of
>   dancers?  Are they pulling from the same dance repertoire, but with a
>   different style, or what?
> 

& Alan replied:

[snip again]

> The music is played with a real emphasis on the beat - some ceilidh 
bands are
> made up of morris musicians.  Like American contra, typically there isn't a
> specific tune for a specific dance.  The caller asks for 5x32bars of jigs, and
> the band figures out what tune set they have that will work.  Although modern
> ceilidh musicians compose new material, and some of them play in styles
> influenced by French, African, reggae, rock-and-roll, etc, there is a big
> emphasis on using tunes from the rural English tradition, rather than the sissy
> classical-esque stuff often found in Barnes.  D4D musicians are expected to be
> able to play most anything by sight, given the music.  Some ceilidh musicians
> don't read music.  (Also true for some excellent American contra musicians.)
> Instrumentation usually includes drum or some other rhythm instrument, and
> there's a preference for punchy melodeons and concertinas over draggy 
> accordions.

You didn't mention that within the eceilidh (their term for English
ceilidh) folks themselves there are vigorous debates about whether one can
be a _real_ eceilidh musician if you don't stand up while you're playing
or if you play from dots...

The discussion about the divisions of folks by their perceptions of the
"traditions" is illustrated at yet another level by the differing points
of view within a group.

The eceilidh folks also had intense discussion earlier this year about
what a rant step actually was, and whether hornpipes which were written
with equal-length notes should be played equally or unequally (e.g. like
dotted rhythms or triplets).  There were conspicuous differences between
the north & south of England, but complete agreement lacked even within
regions.

Eric Arnold


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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:25:05 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:

> Alan, what do you mean by "dances for dancers"?  Also, what is a USA dance,
> as in "the twice through of a USA dance"?
> 
> I had no idea about the class issues (if that's the word for it) in the
> dance scene in England.  What kinds of dances are the ceilidh
> dancers/musicians doing that distinguish them from the other type of
> dancers?  Are they pulling from the same dance repertoire, but with a
> different style, or what?

I've been meaning to chip in with a proper reply to this discussion 
but haven't had time. Just a quick comment here though, I have a 
web page at http://www.hottub.demon.co.uk/dqcc.htm which 
should answer some of these questions.

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:37:03 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Kudzu problems
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[140.186.54.195]>
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never fear, we have our version.  It's another alien called bittersweet.

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:53:06 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Not quite
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
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A few weeks ago I heard that the West Kirby Band published a new
recording in their "Not Quite" series.
What is its title and its recording? Does any of the northerners know
about it?

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:52:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:52:17 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dippy Tunes -- "Nelly the Elephant?"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>> and then there's Colin Hume's well-known fondness for
>> "Nellie the Elephant" which crops up in a couple of tunes
>for his dances.
>
>What is "Nellie the Elephant?"

Well, gosh, that cultural divide rears its head again.  The Atlantic has
evidently filtered out some of England's greatest music.  A google search
for Nellie the Elephant finds several versions of the lyrics, but no sound,
so I can't convey the tune to you alas.  I forget which of Colin Hume's
dances has a segment of Nellie in, but look at Dances with A Difference vol
5.


NELLIE THE ELEPHANT

 To Bombay a travelling circus came, they brought an
intelligent elephant and Nellie was her name
One dark night she slipped her iron chain
and off she ran to Hindustan
and was never seen again.. oooooo

Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and said goodbye to the circus
Off she went with a trumpety trump trump trump trump.
Now Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and trundled off to the jungle
Off she went with a trumpety trump trump trump trump.

..The head of the herd was calling far far away
They met one night in the silver light on the road to Mandalay...
Night by night she danced to the circus band
When Nellie was leading the big parade she looked so proud and grand
No more tricks for Nellie to perform
They taught her how to take a bow and she took the crowd by storm.

>By mentioning that, you've got the tune to Colin's
>"Unrequited Love" stuck in my head

Yes, I did it to myself too.  It drove Nellie out completely, so by Bruce's
rules Unrequited Love is dippier than Nellie.  Which doesn't seem right
somehow.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:07:06 -0400
From: "Pearl, Dan" <Dan_Pearl-AT-
stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Chicken Dance
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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That you saw the Chicken Dance in Austria is not so amazing. It was composed
in Germany. For references, see:

http://www.fff.at/fff/dance/misc/chicken.html

Dan Pearl -- Stratus Computer Inc.
Dan_Pearl-AT-
stratus.com

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:16:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: traditions again
To: ecd-digest-AT-
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Comrades,

I don't think the ECD list is the best place for a morris discussion, but 
many issues are shared.

J.Ramsey said:

"Regarding morris and sword: Sharp began the morris and sword revival in
1899.  He demonstrated them on his visits to the USA ~1916-17.  I began
dancing them in 1947 in Berea, Kentucky.  Pinewoods Morris Men, the first 
formalized side, started in the 1960's.  Does anyone have the reference, 
buried somewhere in the American Morris Newsletter, about the Morris Men 
going ashore in Hudson Bay in the 16th century?  It's not in Forrest's The 
History of Moris Dancing."

Well, no. Sharp first saw the Headington Morris Men on Boxing Day 1899. He 
didn't get involved in the "revival" till about 1907. Nor was he the first 
morris teacher (as in Cotswold) to come to the U.S.: that honor belonged ca. 
1911 to I think Florrie Warren? She was associated with Mary Neal, Sharp's 
archenemy.  Anyhow, look up Rhett Krause's articles in Country Dance and 
Song. Rhett also has shown that "morris" of different kinds was on U.S. 
stages in the mid-19th c. There are a number of references to "morris and 
sword" taught as recreation in schools in the U.S. from WWI on, Berea and 
Fairhope (AL) being perhaps the best known. First "formalized" side... hard 
to say. Pinewoods Men in the 1960s probably right. Though the term 
formalized begs a whole lot of questions. Others started by the end of the 
decade, and a real flurry began in 1973-74.

Ah yes, the old bit about "morris bells" being in the cargo list of a ship 
that came to North America ca. 1583. Look in Rhett's articles. I think it 
comes from Samuel Elliot Morrison's works and I don't know if it's urban 
legend or not. In either case, it only is supposed to refer to gear, not 
dancers or performances. "Morris bells" can be used for other purposes than 
morris dances, after all -- for example, bribing or trading with the locals. 
Why didn't Forrest mention it? Because his superb book deals in history, not 
fantasy.

How is this relevant? as related documentation showing that "tradition is 
anything you can get away with," or less glibly, tradition is whatever you 
want it to be. My wife, a cantor in a synagogue, gets irritated when people 
ask her to sing the "traditional tunes," and she knows that "traditional" to 
most people means "familiar," or better, "what I heard as a kid." We are all 
post-modernists. Get used to it. Revel in it (and if you want something that 
is a post-modern hash, go see the Revels (TM)).

Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________________
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http://profiles.msn.com.

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Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:33:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:26:48 +0100
From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39BCF9B7.A490ED00-AT-
attglobal.net>
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References: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000910174812.4150B-100000-AT-
world.std.com> <017901c01bb5$e623a4a0$5796adce-AT-
pstamler>

Paul Stamler wrote:

>
> Which elements of a football scrimmage are common in contradancing? I've
> been to quite a few contra-dances in my time, and have yet to see people
> deliberately colliding with one another, elbowing each other in the ribs,
> attempting to throw one another to the ground, or for that matter throwing
> balls back and forth -- all of which seem to be central features of American
> football, to my uneducated eye. Nor are most of them wearing helmets, or
> smudges of dirt on their cheekbones. So I'm not sure I see the resemblance.
>

Ah, but was the reference to British (real ) football, in which case it would be
totally apposite?

As the first Brit to reply to the discussion, I can't really better Alan's
description of ceilidh, although the inclusion of bass and drums is often
overemphasised.
About Eric's mention of the so-called 'eceilidh' -  the (relatively new) term
has been dreamed up as a foil to 'Barn Dance' or  'Country Dancing', both of
which have resonances of awful dancing to dodgy old cassettes at primary school.
It is applied in general to bands with a vigorous style, although in practice
this means a few trendy 'in' bands (many of them excellent), whilst ignoring
some more established outfits who have been playing like that for years.
Call me a cynic, but there's definately an element of 'Emperor's New Clothes'
about it all.

A great divide exists in England between the ceilidh and social dance crowd; the
former genre is inclusive and fun, the latter skilful and cerebral, but neither
camp is prepared to acknowledge the positive aspects, rather highlighting the
lack of polish, or stuffiness of the other scene.
Needless to say, this divide can be drawn to some extent along social and
educational lines (who says the class divide no longer exists?).

The onus is on callers, bands and organisers to take the best elemts of each
genre and apply them more generally - to make social dance less stuffy, and
ceilidh less of a 'scrum'. It's very interesting that whilst ceilidh in England
is not only healthy but growing apace, social dance
is really starting to struggle.

Paul.
_________________________

Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM

May Cottage, Wherwell,
Hampshire, SP11 7JS

Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791
Mobile: +44 (0) 7711 485798




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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:34:53 +0100
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Philippe
Callens
Sent: 11 September 2000 15:53
To: ECD discussion list
Subject: Not quite


A few weeks ago I heard that the West Kirby Band published a new
recording in their "Not Quite" series.
What is its title and its recording? Does any of the northerners know
about it?

Philippe Callens

The latest West Kirby recording(plus book) is :

              Not Quite the Same

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:31:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:31:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Langdell <jamesc-AT-
bassclar.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: James.Langdell-AT-
eng.sun.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Alan,

The tune is in the Barlow collection of music that appeared
in the various Playford editions.  I've written out a sheet
of it with my chording to use as an alternative tune for
other dances.  Cathleen Myers suggested it as a more eerie
minor-key tune for dancing "Duke of Kent's Waltz" at the
PEERS Vampyre Balls.  I'm willing to share my copy with whoever 
requests it.  I don't have any dance instructions specific
to the White Hall Minuet", however.

--James Langdell   jamesc-AT-
eng.sun.com  OR langdell-AT-
earthlink.net


> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 18:56:06 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
> Subject: White Hall Minuet?
> 
> I have received a request for information - an in-print source, directions, 
> music - on something called "The White Hall Minuett."  (The "tt" is sic.)
> 
> Do any of you know anything at all about this dance?  I sure don't.

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:50:25 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Chicken Dance
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000911124501.21988A-100000-AT-
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  I forwarded the story about the chicken dance at the Austrian wedding to
an Austrian acquaintance, asking him if this was a traditional Austrian
dance.  He replied that, known as die Vogeltanz or Ganstanz, it is indeed
an old, traditional dance.  So if "Tradition" is what the people who do it
think is traditional, then I guess the chicken dance qualifies.

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:54:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Chicken Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net> wrote:
>   I forwarded the story about the chicken dance at the
> Austrian wedding to an Austrian acquaintance, asking him if 
> this was a traditional Austrian dance.  He replied that, known

> as die Vogeltanz or Ganstanz, it is indeed an old, traditional

> dance.  So if "Tradition" is what the people who do it think 
> is traditional, then I guess the chicken dance qualifies.
> 

Though only learned a few years ago from a tapte given to them
by the leader of the Astoria Scandinavian group, It certainly
seems to be *the* "tradition" in the village of Naselle,
Washington.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:31:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions again
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> ...First "formalized" side... hard to say. Pinewoods Men in
the 
> 1960s probably right. Though the term formalized begs a whole 
> lot of questions. Others started by the end of the decade, and

> a real flurry began in 1973-74.
> 
My understanding has been that PMM was started, sometime before
my first time at Pinewoods in 1969, by some campers at Pinewoods
as a "national" morris side that they could all belong to even
if there were no other Morris dancers in the place where they
lived. I'm not sure if the Village Morris Men, the first local
side I ever heard of, was started before PMM or not. (Maybe Gene
Murrow knows the history better.) That group fell apart when
half of the members moved away from New York City. My
recollection of the growth of Morris outside of PMM stems from a
letter that Roger Cartwright sent out to PMM members and other
interested parties that, as I recall, challenged people to
expand Morris locally. I'm not saying that letter was the only
impetus, but it certainly got some people thinking.

> ...(and if you want something that is a post-modern hash, go 
> see the Revels (TM)).
> 
Even Revels has developed its own "traditions". I always find it
a bit odd having Lord of the Dance and the accompanying Morris
choreography (which I think was written by "Shag" Graetz for the
Cambridge Revels years ago), any Morris and Sword dances and the
Sussex Mummers Carol in a show with a Scandinavian or French or
Southern Appalachian theme. But those very English features are
Revels "traditions" that are always in the show no matter what
the theme is. There certainly is a high degree of artistic
license taken in Revels productions. 

Andy in Portland

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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:13:57 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Not quite
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
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It is called 'Not Quite the Same'. Book available with CD and cassette
of the music. Will send a list fo the dances when I have more time.

Graham Knight

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:08:58 -0400
From: JHMTurner <JHMTurner-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: More on traditions in Dance.
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
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Message text written by INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
>
Since no Brits have answered yet, I'll expand on this, although I mostly
have
this second-hand.  The ceilidh-dance repertoire has a lot of overlap with
the
Community Dance Manuals - simple, vigorous dances which often have
opportunities for vigorous stepping, whether that's hop-step, rant, or
polka.
Lots of whole-set dances, where there isn't a minor set.  (The favorite
duple
minor appears to be "Nottingham Swing.")  The last dance is more typically
a
polka than a waltz.
<

Herewith a British viewpoint (no doubt one of many!).

The English Ceilidh is a type of dance event very popular in Britain over
the past 15? and more years particularly with the younger (5 to 50+) age
group and the more energetic dancer. In its most "advanced" form it has
similarities to a local village 'hop' (say a harvest barn dance), a folk
dance discotheque, and a 'rock concert', all rolled into one, including the
loud music and sometimes even the flashing lights! From my modest
understanding of the American folkdance scene and from chats with dance
friends (both English and American) its nearest American equivalent is the
New England Contra dance scene, however bizarre this may sound! 
In the Ceilidh the emphasis is firmly on vigour and the expenditure of high
levels of energy. Style is not important. The dances are quite simple and a
large proportion are 'stepped', using the Hornpipe (step hop), the Rant or
the Polka. Although the stepping is not essential, it significantly
increases the enjoyment of the dance and adds greatly to the energy
expenditure!
Ceilidh dances generally do not have set tune (like New England Contras)
and even the rhythm may be changed 'on the night'!
The Ceilidh dance repertoire includes many of the dances collected from the
English Villages in the early years of this century by Cecil Sharp and his
contemporaries. It also includes a large number of modern compositions in a
similar style. Occasionally the more simple Playford dances are included in
the programme and not necessarily to their original music! E.g. Half
Hannikin is quite popular and sports a R & LH Star figure as well as
clapping to make it into a 32bar dance.  

Just to add a wider view of English Country Dance as danced in the UK
today, here are a few notes I put together for a 'Calling trip' to the USA
last year. 

If one were describing the range of modern English Country Dance by drawing
a bar chart, then Ceilidh Dances would appear at one end and the original
Playford Dances at the other. As one progresses along the bar from Playford
towards Ceilidh dances there are a whole host of modern and relatively
modern compositions. Some emulating the Playford style, some more
sophisticated dances, that use the figures and formats found in Playford
dances but without the courtesy moves and the style associated with
'Playford' E.g. many of our modern English dances have Buzz step swings. 
Dances for  3, 4, 5, 6 etc. couple sets are very popular. There are many
dances written as 'fun dances'. Dances which have very unusual and very
occasionally almost unpredictable progressions. Dances which seriously
challenge the spacial awareness of the even most accomplished dancer. We
also have many contra dances written by English / European authors. They
are perhaps more varied than genuine New England contras in that they use a
wider range of figures. We don't worry too much about introducing the
occasional 'Club Square Dance' figures into our contras. E.g. 'Flutter
wheels are quite common'. Then there's  'Running Set', a version of
traditional dance from the Southern Appalachians (researched in 1917),
which is still popular in Britain today thanks to Cecil Sharp and his
followers.

I hope this gives a bit of a flavour of the variety and style in English
Country Dance today. It would appear to differ quite markedly from the
American view of ECD.

John Turner
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:26:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:26:40 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gender free calls
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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serak.svc.tds.net>
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Lou Vosteen wrote:  

>As I was working out a dance program this past week, the following question
>popped in my mind:
>
>How does one call a gender free ladies chain?

This brings to mind a discussion that erupted, back in the late 80's 
among a few Midwestern contra callers.  Someone had written a dance 
which required that the men chain, but the men, at that point in the 
dance, were on the ladies' right.  (If there is anything that can be 
thought of as typical about men chaining in contras, it's that they 
chain left-handed.)  As the caller walked us through the dance, he 
instructed, "The men do a ladies chain."  

All manner of comments were made about the "correct" way to instruct 
that figure.  I've thought about that incident for years since, and 
suggest the following -- how about, "right hand chain across" or "by 
the right hands, chain across" for the typical ladies chain, "left 
hand chain across" for the 'typical' gents chain.  I would assume 
that, in a right hand chain, the dancers on the right, either sex, 
would extend right hands and chain across; for the left hand chain, 
the dancers on the left would extend left hands.

I'd like to add that I see nothing wrong with saying, for instance, 
"women chain by the left hands," if that's what the choreography 
calls for.

Roger Diggle


Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken.
  --  Bertrand Russell

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [fwd from George Marshall - Bare Necessities & Gene Murrow in St. Croix]
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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[Fwd by request from George Marshall, gmarshal-AT-
tiac.net]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Dancer,

I would like to let you know that I've established the dates for the
upcoming 2001 Tropical Dance Vacations on St. Croix, USVI. 

The English dance week will run from February 6-13, 2001 with Bare
Necessities. Gene Murrow will be leading dances.

The Contra and Square dance week will run from February 15-22, 2001
with Wild Asparagus, and The Monks providing music. George Marshall 
and Kathy Anderson will be calling the dances. 

If you would like more information about the event please check out the
revamped web site <http://www.tropdanvac.com> or send me a message.

Best regards,
George Marshall

Tropical Dance Vacation
PO Box 602
Belchertown, MA 01007
413-323-9604
gmarshal-AT-
tiac.net
http://www.tropdanvac.com
------------------------------------------------------------------


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:59:04 PST
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions again
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0009112257350.6175-100000-AT-
panix2.panix.com>
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Andrew Peterson wrote:
> Even Revels has developed its own "traditions". I always find it
> a bit odd having Lord of the Dance and the accompanying Morris
> choreography (which I think was written by "Shag" Graetz for the
> Cambridge Revels years ago), any Morris and Sword dances and the
> Sussex Mummers Carol in a show with a Scandinavian or French or
> Southern Appalachian theme. But those very English features are
> Revels "traditions" that are always in the show no matter what
> the theme is. There certainly is a high degree of artistic
> license taken in Revels productions. 

  I appreciate Father Capon's remarks that tradition is what happens when
people say "But we ALWAYS have meat loaf on Daddy's birthday!" In the SCA
I have had many opportunities to see this happen "under the microscope".

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:31:01 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200009120331.WAA18675-AT-
kodos.svc.tds.net>
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John M. Ramsay wrote:  

>Marian, perhaps our problem is one of communication.  What do you mean by
>"native Icelander (see below)?  Scandinavians have been in Iceland for at
>least a thousand years.  Do you then class them as foreigners?

Just to add an interesting twist to the question of what constitutes 
a "native Icelander," a good Icelandic friend of mine tells me that, 
when blood-group studies were done of the "native Icelander" population, 
it was discovered, to everyones surprise, that the genetic makeup of the 
"native Icelander" population approaches 40% Irish.  Apparently there 
were a *lot* of those Irish monks who came to convert Iceland to 
Catholicism.  

Roger Diggle
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:08:11 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>
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So it sounds like what we really need to get ceilidh off the ground in the
US is places where you can drink *and* dance.

Marian

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:11:29 -0500
From: Paul Stamler <pstamler-AT-
atdial.net>
Subject: Re: Gender free calls
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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<<This brings to mind a discussion that erupted, back in the late 80's
among a few Midwestern contra callers.  Someone had written a dance
which required that the men chain, but the men, at that point in the
dance, were on the ladies' right.  (If there is anything that can be
thought of as typical about men chaining in contras, it's that they
chain left-handed.)  As the caller walked us through the dance, he
instructed, "The men do a ladies chain."
All manner of comments were made about the "correct" way to instruct
that figure.>>

Personally, I'd stick with the instruction the caller gave -- its
paradoxical nature makes it stick in the mind.

Peace.
Paul

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Marian wrote:

  So it sounds like what we really need to get ceilidh off the ground in the
  US is places where you can drink *and* dance.

Exactly.  I'm thinking Ashkenaz*, but I need a committed and good band first.

The second problem is then finding those people who'd enjoy it - even if they
don't like ECD or contra - and getting them to come.

-- Alan

* Ashkenaz, for those listening outside the San Francisco Bay Area, is a 
folk dance club in Berkeley with a reasonable floor and a wine and beer
license.  



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:55:39 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wighton Collection of Dundee
To: Strathspey Articles <strathspey-AT-
tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
CC: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000201c01c72$268e8de0$3cf6490c-AT-
pavilion>
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I stumbled across this page while searching for something else but it has
interesting info on the history of both Scottish and Playford tunes:
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/nrd/centlib/wighton/wighton.htm#bremner

Dianna



Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:33:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:55:39 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wighton Collection of Dundee
To: Strathspey Articles <strathspey-AT-
tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de>
CC: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000301c01c72$af45a380$3cf6490c-AT-
pavilion>
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I stumbled across this page while searching for something else but it has
interesting info on the history of both Scottish and Playford tunes:
http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/nrd/centlib/wighton/wighton.htm#bremner

Dianna



Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:16:57 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:16:44 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gender free calls
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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kang.svc.tds.net>
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Paul Stamler wrote:  

><<This brings to mind a discussion that erupted, back in the late 80's
>among a few Midwestern contra callers.  Someone had written a dance
>which required that the men chain, but the men, at that point in the
>dance, were on the ladies' right.  (If there is anything that can be
>thought of as typical about men chaining in contras, it's that they
>chain left-handed.)  As the caller walked us through the dance, he
>instructed, "The men do a ladies chain."
>All manner of comments were made about the "correct" way to instruct
>that figure.>>
>
>Personally, I'd stick with the instruction the caller gave -- its
>paradoxical nature makes it stick in the mind.

It's true that a lot of people remembered what he said... 
unfortunately, a lot of people still didn't know what to do.
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:12:26 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>
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Alan writes:
>>Exactly.  I'm thinking Ashkenaz<<

I've always wondered why there's no English dancing at Ashkenaz; they seem
to have everything else.

If you advertised among the ECDers, the contra dancers, the Irish dancers,
the Scots, and the Ren Faire-related types, I should think you could pull in
a big enough crowd.  It'd be like the aliens at that endless party in one of
the Hitchhiker books, crying "A new pleasure!  A new pleasure!"

Marian
PS -- I wonder if the French & Breton dancers would be interested.  Electric
hurdy-gurdy!  That's the ticket.  Wow, what an annoying instrument that
would be.

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:01:03 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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James Langdell wrote:

> Alan,
>
> The tune is in the Barlow collection of music that appeared
> in the various Playford editions.  I've written out a sheet
> of it with my chording to use as an alternative tune for
> other dances.  Cathleen Myers suggested it as a more eerie
> minor-key tune for dancing "Duke of Kent's Waltz" at the
> PEERS Vampyre Balls.

I feel that is not a good idea at all. As the titles of the dance suggest, one is
a minuet and the other is a waltz, and although they both are triple times tunes,
that doesn't make them candidates at all for interchanging tunes.

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:06:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000912070601.6004.qmail-AT-
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--- Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:
> So it sounds like what we really need to get ceilidh off the
> ground in the US is places where you can drink *and* dance.
> 

As long as there is not smoking, too. I stopped going to the
monthly Irish Ceilidh in Portland because the smoke was so thick
you couldn't breath. The bar was built on both sides of the wall
by the entrance to the dancehall and there were people smoking
at the other side of the bar. That may have changed now eith a
new Multnomah County ordinance that prohibits smoking in
restaurants. I'm not sure if it includes bars or not.

Andy in Portland

__________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:28:40 +0100
From: John Meechan <johnm-AT-
jma-nuneaton.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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INteresting that you are trying to get ceilidh off the ground in the US
whilst we are trying to get contra off the ground in the UK!

John Meechan
----- Original Message -----
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?


> So it sounds like what we really need to get ceilidh off the ground in the
> US is places where you can drink *and* dance.
>
> Marian
>
>

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: traditions in dance?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2000, Roger Diggle wrote:

> Just to add an interesting twist to the question of what constitutes 
> a "native Icelander," a good Icelandic friend of mine tells me that, 
> when blood-group studies were done of the "native Icelander" population, 
> it was discovered, to everyones surprise, that the genetic makeup of the 
> "native Icelander" population approaches 40% Irish.  Apparently there 
> were a *lot* of those Irish monks who came to convert Iceland to 
> Catholicism.  

Or maybe just one really busy one.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 09:33:55 PST
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:33:08 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39BE5AC4.9761FE5E-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
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> From: Paul Sartin <psartin-AT-
attglobal.net>

> It is applied in general to bands with a vigorous style...

My best efforts at describing it are at...
  http://www.webfeet.org/eceilidh/Overview.html
and...
  http://www.webfeet.org/eceilidh/bands/Overview.html

> ...... although in practice
> this means a few trendy 'in' bands (many of them excellent), whilst ignoring
> some more established outfits who have been playing like that for years.
> Call me a cynic, but there's definately an element of 'Emperor's New Clothes'
> about it all.

Ohhh, I don't know :-)

I'd have throught that Ran Tan, Gas Mark V, Late Night band _were_ using
a different sort of cloth, but it's not worth arguing as it's those new
clothes which are carrying the same dances across from one generation to
the next....

Regards,
  Martin Kiff
  mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:24:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:23:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Langdell <jamesc-AT-
bassclar.eng.sun.com>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: James.Langdell-AT-
eng.sun.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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> 
> James Langdell wrote:
> 
> > Alan,
> >
> > The tune is in the Barlow collection of music that appeared
> > in the various Playford editions.  I've written out a sheet
> > of it with my chording to use as an alternative tune for
> > other dances.  Cathleen Myers suggested it as a more eerie
> > minor-key tune for dancing "Duke of Kent's Waltz" at the
> > PEERS Vampyre Balls.
> 
Philippe Callens wrote:
> I feel that is not a good idea at all. As the titles of the dance suggest, one 
is
> a minuet and the other is a waltz, and although they both are triple times 
tunes,
> that doesn't make them candidates at all for interchanging tunes.

Well, in that case, neither tune should be used for the dance
called "Duke of Kent's Waltz", because that's a country dance,
not a couple-dance waltz or minuet.

There's a wide spectrum of feelings in triple-meter tunes.
Some can suit several different dance functions well, especially 
when the melody is propelled with varying tempos and accompaniament.

This tune (for the "White Hall Minuet") happens to work well for this 
country dance as an alternative to the "official" tune of "Duke of
Kent's Waltz".  But far from every tune with "minuet" in its title 
would work well with that dance, nor would the majority of other tunes
called "waltz".  

Using ears and feet, not just eyes, is the only way to assure 
a good pairing of dance and tune.

--James Langdell   jamesc-AT-
eng.sun.com 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:58:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:03:38 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01d2f$36e1a5c0$58eaadce-AT-
default>
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Where does one go to learn to dance minuets in the San Francisco Bay Area?
I've never even seen one, much less danced one.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:09:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:09:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JU3J52KDJ68Y6HDQ-AT-
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Marian wrote:

  Where does one go to learn to dance minuets in the San Francisco Bay Area?
  I've never even seen one, much less danced one.

Well, you've missed the Stanford Baroque Week (with dance program) for this
year, which is probably your best bang for the buck in the Bay Area in terms
of well-respected (world-famous) baroque dance instructors like Wendy Hilton.

There are well-respected instructors in the Bay Area, like Angene Feves.  I 
don't know if any of them offer regular classes.

Some years back - 1994, maybe? - the Bay Area English Regency Society offered
some workshops, one with Angene, one with Richard Powers, which covered period
stepping.  We also, more recently - 1997? - had a series of one-evening
workshops at our second-Friday dance parties, and Jody McGeen was going to
teach a "Minuet for Country Dancers" class, but got in a car accident and 
wasn't able to do it.  I should reschedule that class for sometime next year.
(That would be in Palo Alto, at St. Mark's Episcopal Church where we have our
regular second-Friday dance parties.)  (BAERS is on the web at 
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1815 )

I wouldn't be surprised if you could sometimes get a quick and dirty minuet
lesson associated with a PEERS ball; they're at http://www.peers.org.

(Yes, "quick and dirty minuet lesson" looks pretty silly up there in the
preceding sentence, but what they'd call it ("survival minuet") doesn't look
much better.)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:38:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:44:08 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c01d34$deec31e0$58eaadce-AT-
default>
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Thanks.  Does Stanford have a Baroque Week (with a dance program) every
year?

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:42:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:41:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JU3KHWAD1I8Y6HDQ-AT-
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Marian wrote:

  Thanks.  Does Stanford have a Baroque Week (with a dance program) every
  year?

I'm not sure whether it's every year or every other year; I think it's every
year.  It's actually more like two weeks than one, but you can sign up for
only one.

(I signed up this year and then had to cancel.  They told me they were 
quite disappointed, because they'd really like to get people who understand
country dance figures in the dance program to help along the bewildered 
musicians who are taking the dance program just to help them understand why
the music is the way it is.)

-- Alan





===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:02:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Early American dance in Kensington (East SF Bay), 9/30/2000
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, BACDS-ANNOUNCE-AT-
BACDS.ORG
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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On September 30, 2000, the Bay Area English Regency Society (in association
with the new CDSS member group, the Greater Bay Area Costumers' Guild) is 
pleased to present 

  A Ball Celebrating the Return of the Marquis de Lafayette to These Shores

It's 1824; Lafayette, a hero of the American Revolution, is taking a triumphal
tour of the nation he helped to achieve independence.  This ball is held in his 
honor; the conceit is that it's at a public hall in Virginia.

Dress: 1770s-1820s or modern formal. 

Dances: Tentative program listed below, but in general a mix of Early American,
        war-of-1812-themed contras, figured and free waltzes, and material 
        with a French theme, all taught as we go.  Blatant historical
        inaccuracy is present but minimized.

Caller: Alan Winston

Music: Divertimento Dance Orchestra, under the direction of James Langdell

Location: Arlington Community Church, 52 Arlington Avenue, Kensington, CA
          (Kensington is north of Berkeley.)

Date/Time: September 30, doors open 7:30, Grand March at 8:00.

Price: $12/advance, $16/door.  $2 discount for BACDS/CDSS/DAR members.
Send checks made out to BAERS to 

BAERS, c/o Vanessa Schnatmeier 
1122 Hudson Street 
Redwood City, CA 94061

with names and addresses of people who are to attend.  Checks must be received
by 9/28. (Include email address for acknowledgement of purchase; no tickets are
mailed.)

Web address for more info: Http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1815

Email address for queries: vanessa-AT-
ssrl.slac.stanford.edu

Tentative program:

  Grand March/Polonaise 
  Yankee Doodle (duple minor, 1 A, 1 B)
  An Easy Competence (choreographed waltz)
  Griffith's Whim
  Elegance and Simplicity
  The Accomplished Maid

  La Bastringue 
  Marlbrouk Cotillion
  Allemande 
  Chorus Jig
  Free Waltz
  La Belle Catherine
  Sally in our Alley

  Free Waltz
  Hull's Victory
  The Young Widow
  The Virginia Reel (Sir Roger de Coverly)
  The Congress at Washington (choreographed waltz)

(There is no actual guarantee that all these dances will be done, or that
they will be done in this order.)

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:45:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:36:40 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gender free calls - SURPLUS???
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000913103640.007f8da0-AT-
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Trevor wrote:
>At an informal class I take every fortnight, the percentage of  ladies
>to men is normally about 100 per cent (...) I have kept with the conventions 
>of men and ladies roles.
>(...) none of them has ever
>asked why I call for men and ladies 

You're not alone (alas), but our "ladies" wear sashes (it's mainly SCD that
we do)

Most of them prefer to keep to the same role, a situation which suits most
of the dancers who instantly recognize who is a man and who is not, but we
have one experienced dancer who takes delight in changing roles as often as
possible, which confuses everyone -- including herself ("Hey, Ms X, you're
a lady !).

But she is also the first person to complain if ever I decided I'd like to
dance a lady's role to get a better feel of the dance, or when, at other
venues, more (real) men turn up than women, and, naturally, I
(caller/teacher) am the one to make up numbers. Can't really expect the
machos to dance "lady", can we!

Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm     
                  (dance groups,  some new dances ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:55:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 06:55:16 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:

> I think of this as "duelling fantasies" and I'm convinced it contributes to
> the hostility that sometimes arises between contra dancers and English
> country dancers.  The idea that English country dancing is dull, stuffy, and
> over-complicated fits in perfectly with the fantasy of a brash young nation,
> land of the free and home of the brave, that's thrown off the shackles of an
> oppressive Old World overlord.  Likewise, the idea that contra dancing is
> for simple-minded Neanderthals fits in perfectly with a fantasy world where
> London is a teeming metropolitan center of literature and the arts, the
> village green is the epitome of order and peace -- and America is inhabited
> by a bunch of hick colonists who are so incapable of ruling themselves that
> England keeps having to send in the Army to maintain order.

I love this description, and although I doubt anyone consciously believes
these stereotyped fantasies, I think there is something of them in many
people's subconscious.

Alan Winston wrote:

>In the US, ECD is perceived - however subliminally - as the dance of the
upper
>classes, and contra as the dance of the People.  In the UK, ECD and contra
are
>typically done by the same people, and the ceilidh dancers and leaders, with
>some exceptions (Hi, Bob!) think that the  D4D people are the bloodless
snotty
>aristos and the vigorous English ceilidh dance is the dance of the People

Absolutely correct. I'd say that comparing the ECD / contra split in the US
with the D4D / ceilidh split in the UK is an accurate analogy. The
fantasies that Marian talks about can, with minor variations, be made to
fit the UK scene rather than the US scene.

>[By the way, the last time I mentioned this
>perception of ECD I got a note that explained that unlike the situation in
the
>US, the people who do what are indicated at festivals as "Dances for
>Dancers" -
>that is, people with some ECD experience - _really are_ snotty and bloodless,
>or at least old, tired, only interested in walking complicated patterns, and
>unwelcoming to new people.]

This is a charge that is partially true (in fact it might even have been me
who emailed Alan about this and he is summarizing). It's one of those cases
where it is "shades of gray" though rather than "black and white".

It is sadly true that too many english social dance clubs can be
unwelcoming places. People tend to dance only with their partner, and there
were a number of clubs that I wouldn't ever go to on my own. One of the
things I love about dancing in the US is that in my experience it is
possible for someone to walk into a dance hall (ECD or contra) without a
partner and get asked to dance. I feel very strongly that this is going to
contribute to the continuance of the US dance scene (whether ECD or contra)
and contribute to the decline of the social dance scene in the UK. Of
course nobody can or should be forced to dance with anyone they don't want
to, however they have to be prepared to take the consequences of not
welcoming newcomers.

On the other hand, I have heard reports from ceilidh dancers who I think
(and I wasn't there - I am committing the sin of discussing second hand
experiences) have walked into social dances with the expectation that they
can behave as though they were in a ceilidh, that they are "right" and the
social dancers are "wrong", and that they can ride roughshod over the
particular customs of that group. Not surprisingly, they haven't had a good
time and the regulars have been disapproving.

Paul Sartin made a great point - "neither camp is prepared to acknowledge
the positive aspects, rather highlighting the lack of polish, or stuffiness
of the other scene". I'm pretty sure I've said this before on this list,
but I'll say it again - too often people seem to equate "what I like" with
"what is good, correct, wholesome" and "what I don't like" with "what is
bad, wrong, corrupting". 

The concept of "Thing X doesn't do it for me, but it obviously does do it
for some other folks so I'll let them get on with it and go off and do
thing Y which I prefer" seems to be vanishing.

>I think ECD tolerates people who don't pay any attention during the
>walkthrough
>much less well than contra does; as a result, if those people try ECD, they
>think of it as stuffy and bloodless and intolerant.  God forbid they should
>try
>Scottish.

Different dance forms have different properties which appeal to different
people. I'm always interested to talk to people who started doing one dance
form, then discovered something else and switched over to it entirely. I've
known people make the switch from English to Scottish, from Scottish to
modern American square, from swing to contra .... There are plenty of
people with a main dance interest who will quite happily go to another type
of dance once a year - enjoy it, but then have had their fill of it for
another year.

> (And, of course, some individual ECDers probably are stuffy,
>bloodless, and intolerant.)

As are some contra dancers, Scottish dancers, ceilidh dancers etc. etc.

As for the "dance for dancers" description that is now getting attached to
the social dance (not ceilidh) scene in the UK, I first came across the
term used for dances with little or no calling. The theory was that the
dancers would know the dances in advance. Recently the term seems to be
getting used for all social dance. I absolutely hate the phrase. I think
it's insulting to pretty much everyone and I don't think it does anything
to help the cross over between ceilidh and social dance. Unfortunately, it
seems to be catching on, and it has a cute abbreviation (D4D). If anyone
can come up with a better label I'd love to hear it and try and get it
used. I suspect I'm onto a loser here though, and I do find myself using it
because many people understand exactly what I mean when I say it - it's an
aid to communication.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:34:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:34:39 -0400
From: Lou Vosteen <lvosteen-AT-
widomaker.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110701b5e5398d2b30-AT-
[209.96.179.217]>
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Philippe wrote (in part):
>
>I feel that is not a good idea at all. ... although they both are triple
>times tunes,
>that doesn't make them candidates at all for interchanging tunes.
>
>Philippe Callens


I heartily second that comment and would like to relate a recent experince:

We have a local "professional" chamber orchestra that, as part of its
educational outreach program, puts on special concerts for elementary
school children. At a recent concert, one segment of the concert dealt with
music for dance and they played exerpts from the classical repertoire to
illustrate dance styles. While doing some volunteer work in the orchestra's
office, I happened to see the script that had been used by the concert's
announcer/narrator for that concert. For a demonstration of the minuet, the
narrator told the children the music was in three quarter time and to feel
the rythm they should stomp their feet and clap - stomp, clap, clap - along
with the music.  I was absolutely mortified! The president of the
organization, who also is a section leader in the orchestra and probably
had a hand in preparing the script, was also in the office and he seemed
quite surprised when I told him, "The minuet is not a waltz!"

While I'm on my soapbox, I'll like to put in a bid for doing away with the
"waltzy" figures usually used for "Come Let's be Merry." That dance, music
and figures, lends itself extremely well to a minuet step and I suspect
that it is, in fact, a "minuet contry dance." If the dancers are unable to
do a minuet step, at least try to keep the sense of dancing in six-count
phrases without a "waltz up the center" or arm swinging circles.

I'll step down now.

Lou


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:06:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:05:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JU4ECJKWIG8YBUK5-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Lou wrote:

  We have a local "professional" chamber orchestra that, as part of its
  educational outreach program, puts on special concerts for elementary
  school children. At a recent concert, one segment of the concert dealt with
  music for dance and they played exerpts from the classical repertoire to
  illustrate dance styles. While doing some volunteer work in the orchestra's
  office, I happened to see the script that had been used by the concert's
  announcer/narrator for that concert. For a demonstration of the minuet, the
  narrator told the children the music was in three quarter time and to feel
  the rythm they should stomp their feet and clap - stomp, clap, clap - along
  with the music.  I was absolutely mortified! The president of the
  organization, who also is a section leader in the orchestra and probably
  had a hand in preparing the script, was also in the office and he seemed
  quite surprised when I told him, "The minuet is not a waltz!"

I guess your chamber orchestra does Historically Uninformed Performance. What
an appalling story.  (On the other hand - and this applies below as  well - a
lot of minuets, jigs, and slow airs make perfectly fine waltzes if you play
them as waltzes.  (Some don't; Drapers' Maggot is not an entirely successful
minuet-to-waltz transfer.)  If the orchestra was playing it as a waltz, it
would be counterproductive to tell the kids "you'll get the feeling of the
rhythm if you do clap-and-a-clap-clap-clap.")

  While I'm on my soapbox, I'll like to put in a bid for doing away with the
  "waltzy" figures usually used for "Come Let's be Merry." That dance, music
  and figures, lends itself extremely well to a minuet step and I suspect
  that it is, in fact, a "minuet contry dance." If the dancers are unable to
  do a minuet step, at least try to keep the sense of dancing in six-count
  phrases without a "waltz up the center" or arm swinging circles.

I'm sure you're right, that it is originally a minuet country dance, but any
attempt to change it back from a waltz country dance has to start with the 
band.  If they don't play it as a minuet, with two-bar phrases and appropriate
timing, there's no way the dancers will feel it as a minuet.  Played as a
waltz, they certainly feel it as a waltz - that's why they waltz up the middle
and do the arm-swinging circles.  (Which I personally think is fine so long as
you're not claiming historical authenticity.)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:45:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:26:19 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
To: ECD-AT-
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A few days ago, someone asked of there were any French traditional dances
similar to Circassian Circle.

As far as I know, there are none.
But the English version is done at every "bal folk" here (popular ceilidh
dance).
Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm     
                  (dance groups,  some new dances ...)
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From: Pat & Walter O'Brien <wpob-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
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Marian,

Yes, there is a workshop every year, usually the last two weeks in July.
To get on the mailing list, email Louise Pescetta at
Dolascetta-AT-
earthlink.net

There is a two volume video of Baroque Dance which is very good and which
includes all the Baroque dance types including Minuet.   You can email Paige
Whiteley Baugess (a dance historian and beautiful Baroque dancer) at
ziggy-AT-
coastalnet.com for information.  The cost is about $60 for the two
volumes.

Pat O'Brien


----- Original Message -----
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?


> Thanks.  Does Stanford have a Baroque Week (with a dance program) every
> year?
>
> Marian
>
>
>

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From: John Meechan <johnm-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
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Whilst in Normandy a few years ago, we were 'taught' what the Normans called
a Norman traditional dance - Circassian Circle.

John Meechan

----- Original Message -----
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Circassian Circle


> A few days ago, someone asked of there were any French traditional dances
> similar to Circassian Circle.
>
> As far as I know, there are none.
> But the English version is done at every "bal folk" here (popular ceilidh
> dance).
> Martin,
>  in Grenoble, France.
>
>  http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm
>                   (dance groups,  some new dances ...)
>

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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:39:32 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
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I'd like to echo Lou's comments about the waltz-minuet confusion that is
sometimes perpetuated upon the unwary.

I can remember my confusion, horror & (ultimately) rebellion some years
ago when, after some rounds of playing Well Hall (minuet time), the
caller turned to us musicians & told us to continue playing as the
couples had a *gasp* free waltz around the floor.

I suppose that  courtesy to the caller (musicians are generally supposed
to be obedient!) should have caused us to turn this tune into waltz-time,
but we were so flabbergasted & appalled that we could not comply and
people were forced to waltz in minuet-time (though, considering the
general level of dance skill that day, it probably didn't matter one way
or the other anyway!).

Another time, a British accordion player who was accompanying his caller
& passing through here in Pittsburgh also played a minuet as waltz time,
causing me to wonder if this was a typical aberrration attributable to
his climate and/or diet or not.  Perhaps the Brits on the list could
comment.

Finally, while we musicians were warming up, I have seen the Determined
waltz to a duple meter (that is, coming out straight every, um, 4 bars
(did I get the math straight?) and demonstrating mind over matter to a
considerable degree!

Allison in Pittsburgh
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From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
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Allison wrote:

>Another time, a British accordion player who was accompanying his caller
>& passing through here in Pittsburgh also played a minuet as waltz time,
>causing me to wonder if this was a typical aberrration attributable to
>his climate and/or diet or not.  Perhaps the Brits on the list could
>comment.

Perhaps we can blame the reconstructor of Drapers' Gardens, who substituted
a waltz ("The Margravine's Waltz" - pretty unequivocal) for the original 
minuet tune.

>Finally, while we musicians were warming up, I have seen the Determined
>waltz to a duple meter (that is, coming out straight every, um, 4 bars
>(did I get the math straight?) and demonstrating mind over matter to a
>considerable degree!

The Really Determined can also rant to any rhythm.

-- Alan


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 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
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Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
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Folks, FYI here's the message that I sent to Ron Houston of the Society
of Folk Dance Historians on the topic of Circassian Circle.  Your
comments, if any, continue to be sought!


Hi Ron,

Well, I have a few bits of information for you; surprisingly little,
actually.  The question did not engender much interest on the ECD
bulletin board!  So what I have for you are a few not-well-connected
points & a couple of conjectures.


Historical Dance

1.	In my collection, the earliest reference I can find comes  from
Charles Durang's The Fashionable Dancer's Casket (Philadelphia, 1856), in
which the reference seems more towards the formation than a figure, as
follows:

The company are arranged in couples round the room, the ladies being
placed on the right of the gentlemen, after which the first and second
lead off the dance, facing each other; at the conclusion, the first
couples with the fourth,a nd thesecond with the third couple recommence
the figure, and so on untli they go completely round the circle, when the
dance is concluded. 


2.	A slighter later and more useful reference comes from Elias Howe's The
American Dancing Master & Ball-Room Prompter (Boston, ca. 1862), as
follows:

Form as for Spanish Dance.  All balance, swing four hands--ladies
chain--balance and turn partners--right and left--all forward and back,
forward again and pass to next couple (as in the Haymakers).

	[N.B. the Haymakers ref. is for one couple to duck under arch made by
the other couple)

3.	The name "Circassian"

a.	The only reference in the OED is from 1853, to a type of thin worsted
fabric. 

b.	 The Britannica Encl. was more useful.  Here are some bits.  Circassia
was in the NW region of the Caucasus moutains, north of the Black sea. 
It had an "exotic" reputation "common to lands occupying a crucial area
between rival empires" and 19th c. historians noted the Circassians'
warlike & intrepid character as well as their hospitality to strangers. 
In thegreat territorial wars between Russia, Persia & Turkey (beginning
ca. 1785), the area was hotly contested.  Circassians continued a fierce
& protracted resittance to Russia until their defeat in 1864, when some
400,000 (almost the entire pop.) chose to emigrate to other parts of the
(former) USSR rather than live in subjection.  Circassians lived in a
feudal state with princes & nobles.  Circassian girls and women were said
to have been sold, often willingly, to Turkish merchants for the harems
of Eastern monarchs.  Slavery was maintained until recent times; women
had low status.

c.	I know I've seen references in early 19th & 18th c. literature to
"fair Circassians" in the Byronic, hareem sense...fair-skinned,
dark-eyed, lascivious etc....but of course can't put my hands on them
right now.

d.	The Crimean War raged from 1853-56 on the Crimean penninsula which
juts out into the northern part of the Black Sea & so in that time period
everyone would be thinking about that part of Russia.

e.	Thus leading into my conjecture:  a dancing master--maybe your early
1830 reference, possibly a later one, given the apparent lack of
similarity between the multiple figure version that you described and the
Howe version, made up a contra-style dance in the so-called "Spanish
Dance" or "Sicilian Circle" formation & just chose to call it
"Circassian" because of the romantic associations with the name.  In the
Howe book, the dance appears in the section that includes lots of dances
with ethnic or romantic names  like the "Varsorvienne," the "Sultan
Polka," etc.


Modern Folk Version

1.	One ECD correspondent pointed out that the Circ. Circle was published
by EFDSS in Five Popular Country Dances in 1933.  I don't have a copy of
this to verify.

2.	My version of the Community Dances Manual #1, published by the EFDSS
in 1949 & subsequently revised, shows a 2-part dance, as follows (though
I must say that there's nothing in the instructions to tell you whether
you alternate between jig & reel time, or just do a bunch of jigs & then
a bunch of reels.   Since Part 2 is a mixer, I incline to thinking it's
the latter, although it could be done alternately, come to think of it
(...and come to think of it, it might be a lot of fun this way)..... I
know I've never done this dance in the 2 part version, though I've
certainly danced each of the 2 bits, under what name or names, I do not
remember):

The Circassian and the Big Circle
	(Collected by Maud Karpeles in Northumberland)

Part I:  The Circassian Circle (jig time--Sicilian Circle formation)
   
A1	Right & left through OR girls cross over (left) and men cross over
(right) and repeat to places
A2	Partners balance and swing
B1	 Ladies Chain
B2	Swing & change OR promenade on to next couple

Part 2	The Big Circle

Form:  All join hands in one ring:  Each man with his partner on his
right facing centre.

A1	Forward & back twice
A2	Girls to centre & back again; Men go in and back to contrary partner,
i.e., the girl on his left
B1	Swing her round
B2	Promenade around



3.	Another book, published to go with a cassette of music:   Barn Dance
Saturday Night, ed. by Derek Jones, 1985, shows the Circassian Circle as
the following, noting that it is "the traditional finish to a barn
dance":  

Circassian Circle

Format:  Circle	[i.e., big, rather than Sicilian]
Tunes given are reels

A1	Join hands, go four steps into the middle and back.  And again.
A2	Ladies go in 3 steps and clap; fall back.  Men go in and clap; turn
and come back
B1	Swing partner   [it says nothing about changing partners in this
dance]
B2	Promenade.


4.	From Betty Casey's book International Folk dancing, U.S.A., (Doubleday
& Co., 1981), there is a section on "English Folk Dancing," with the
source of information being May Gadd and the CDSS  (actually, May would
have been dead in 1981, Betty must have interviewed her much earlier
....)

Here it notes that "one version of this dance is performed by a single
circle of dancers, the other by a double circle."--perhaps addressing the
problem unanswered by the Community Dances version.

Circassian Circle (Single Circle)

Meter 6/8 (or any reel or hornpipe tune.
Formation:  Single circle of partners (W at M's right side) with hands
joined.
Step:  Walk

A1	(I'm not following her transcrption exactly here)  All to the ctr 4
stpes and back 4 steps and again
A2	M stand in place W walk to center (4 stps) and clap on 4th stpe, then
back to place; Men to center & clap, turn left around and walk to lady
who was originally on L side
B1	Swing new partner
B2	Promenade

Double Circle, Progressive
Meter:	6/8
Formation:	Sicilian Circle
Step:	Walk

A1	Right hand star & back by L
A2	Face partner and balance 4 times (RLRL) and swing P
B1	Ladies chain over and back
B2	Couples walk 4 steps towards each other & back; then pass through to a
new couple and do-sa-do the new person faced


5	Thus leading to pure conjecture....one night, Maud went to a barn dance
in Northumberland where they danced a dance for a while in a Sicilian
circle formation and then, at some mysterious (doubtless drunken) signal
they all switched to a big circle and danced a different dance for a
while.  Or maybe (not being too drunk) they alternated between the two. 
In true Sharpian style, she collected this aberration & presumed it to be
characteristic of *the* dance called Circassian Circle.  However, from
that point on (and especially during the era dominated by recordings,
rather than live music) the switch from jig to reel and also from a
stay-with-partner dance to a mixer dance was not often done....and also
(conjecture #2)...both forms of the dance lend themselves well to a
caller's improvisation on the night & to be used as a method of teaching
simple figures or of moving to the beat, in addition to being fun and
(occasionally) a mixer.  (I have often done this "insta-variation"
myself.) Hence the multiple variations that have accrued to this name
over the years....and finally, (sweeping statement #1) if done in
alternating form, 64-bar dances are not very common in the country/contra
repertoire (tiring for musicians & dancers).  

I expect that the dance called Sicilian Circle would have the same kind
of history.  Perhaps even the one called Spanish Waltz.

The interesting question is why some country/contra dances mutate & some
don't.  I think that on occasion the association of a set of figures with
a particular tune (i.e., Chorus Jig or Hull's Victory) will do the trick
of keeping a dance stable.  I also suspect that dances notated in print
more recently (i,.e., this copyright-conscious and literate century) are
more stable than those from earlier times, but that's the subject of
someone's dissertation!  It is good to remember that in general,
country/contra dances have historically been highly mutable:  they
represent re-combinations of a comparatively limited set of figures,
after all.  There is a lot of evidence from 18th c. dancing manuals of
publishers plagiarizing a set of figures & publishing them under a new
tune & title.  I don't know if international dances work/worked like this
or not.


Cheerio!

Allison



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From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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ECDers --

Anent Allison's subject-line

Subj:	RE: Waltz - Minuet Confusion

I'm obliged to speak in James's defense.  This came up because of his passing
on a caller's suggestion to him to play "White Hall Minuet" as a spooky 
change tune for "Duke of Kent's Waltz", but he certainly has no confusion
about what a waltz is and what a minuet is.  (Heck, in addition to the music
degree he's been to Richard Powers' vintage dance week at Stanford, on the
Paris/Prague vintage dance tour, etc.)

And so has that caller, Cathleen Myers, been to vintage dance week.  She knew
the band could play it as a waltz, and she thought that sequence of notes would
produce the spooky effect she was after.  Did James mention that this was for
a hugely popular event called the Bal du Vampyres, which gets about 200 people
- mostly a mix of Goth and ballroom dancer types - in costumes of all periods
and assorted fang lengths out the weekend after Halloween?  She knew what she
was doing, too.  She can't expect them to know minuet, and the level of
complexity they can deal with in country dance is very low, and the moral
weight of historical accuracy - at a ball that purports to be for vampires - is
very low.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
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--- Alan Winston wrote:

> The Really Determined can also rant to any rhythm.

And on any subject.
B.

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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:06:15 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
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References: <200009111731.KAA20057-AT-
bassclar.eng.sun.com> <l03110701b5e5398d2b30-AT-
[209.96.179.217]>

Dear Lou,

Lou Vosteen wrote (in part):
   While I'm on my soapbox, I'll like to put in a bid for doing away with the

> "waltzy" figures usually used for "Come Let's be Merry." That dance, music
> and figures, lends itself extremely well to a minuet step and I suspect
> that it is, in fact, a "minuet contry dance." If the dancers are unable to
> do a minuet step, at least try to keep the sense of dancing in six-count
> phrases without a "waltz up the center" or arm swinging circles.

You're quite right.  The dance was originally a minuet called Belvedera. In
their album, "Step Stately", published by CDSS, Marshall Barron, Eric Leber and
Chuck Ward offer a setting of the dance to Hackney Minuet as well as the usual
waltz setting. Chacun a son gout. Enjoy!
Albert Blank

--
Albert Blank & Nancy DeVore
102 Loring Avenue
Pelham, NY 10803-2014

Tel. 914 738-7678
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com


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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:21:58 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Walt's - Minute Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
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Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  

>The Really Determined can also rant to any rhythm.

And on every subject.

Actually, it looks as if the government, always sticking its nose 
into things it knows nothing about, may be adding to the confusion. 
The Library of Congress is promoting the dancing of "the Waltz Minuet" 
to young and old alike.  See:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html#vc071

Roger Diggle
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Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: Walt's - Minute Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  

>The Really Determined can also rant to any rhythm.

>And on every subject.

>Actually, it looks as if the government, always sticking its nose 
>into things it knows nothing about, may be adding to the confusion. 
>The Library of Congress is promoting the dancing of "the Waltz Minuet" 
>to young and old alike.  See:
>http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html#vc071

Perhaps the government knows something we don't.

Anway, Mr. Ford's - okay, Mr. Lovett's - Good Morning contains instructions
for the Waltz Minuet, which was somewhat regularized compared to the 
instructions I found in a c. 1900 book (which had a ten-bar 'minuet'
sequence.)

Here's my redaction of Mr. Lovett's Waltz-Minuet, c.1925:


Waltz Minuet
(From "Good Morning") Edwardian/Victorian/American
Music: Part 1 is cut time, 8 bars; part 2 is waltz time.
couple dance; waltz/minuet.

Part I - Open position

 1- 2    Starting outside foot, take 3 steps and point toe of free foot
         forward.
 3- 4    Face reverse LOD, changing hands.  As above, on new outside foot.

 5- 6    Face partner, keep hold of same hands; step onto free foot and
         point with other foot; step and point the other way.

 7- 8    Woman turns under man's left arm into ballroom position.

 
Part II - Ballroom position

 1-16    Closed waltz.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:43:45 +0100
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Subject: Re: Circassian Circle
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References: <20000913.195417.-7049.2.AllisonThompson-AT-
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I also have two other 'versions' labelled Circassian Circle.

CIRCASSIAN CIRCLES IN FOURS (Cumbria)
Sicilian Circle 32 bar reels

A1    Men set whilst women cross over;
        Women set whilst men cross over.
        repeat to place.

A2    set to partner and sswing

B1    Ladies Chain (presumably North Country Style)

B2    Forward to meet opps and back;
        Pass on.


CIRCASSIAN CIRCLE PART TWO (Cumbria)
Sicilian Circle    32 bar reels

A1    1st cples (facing a-cl) gallop around circle between 2s and back;

 A2    2s gallop between 1s

B1    North Country Ladies chain

B2    Forward and back with opps;
        1s under arch made by 2s and then make an arch over the next 2s.

John Meechan

A2    
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Cc: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Circassian Circle


> Folks, FYI here's the message that I sent to Ron Houston of the Society
> of Folk Dance Historians on the topic of Circassian Circle.  Your
> comments, if any, continue to be sought!
> 
> 
> Hi Ron,
> 
> Well, I have a few bits of information for you; surprisingly little,
> actually.  The question did not engender much interest on the ECD
> bulletin board!  So what I have for you are a few not-well-connected
> points & a couple of conjectures.
> 
> 
> Historical Dance
> 
> 1. In my collection, the earliest reference I can find comes  from
> Charles Durang's The Fashionable Dancer's Casket (Philadelphia, 1856), in
> which the reference seems more towards the formation than a figure, as
> follows:
> 
> The company are arranged in couples round the room, the ladies being
> placed on the right of the gentlemen, after which the first and second
> lead off the dance, facing each other; at the conclusion, the first
> couples with the fourth,a nd thesecond with the third couple recommence
> the figure, and so on untli they go completely round the circle, when the
> dance is concluded. 
> 
> 
> 2. A slighter later and more useful reference comes from Elias Howe's The
> American Dancing Master & Ball-Room Prompter (Boston, ca. 1862), as
> follows:
> 
> Form as for Spanish Dance.  All balance, swing four hands--ladies
> chain--balance and turn partners--right and left--all forward and back,
> forward again and pass to next couple (as in the Haymakers).
> 
> [N.B. the Haymakers ref. is for one couple to duck under arch made by
> the other couple)
> 
> 3. The name "Circassian"
> 
> a. The only reference in the OED is from 1853, to a type of thin worsted
> fabric. 
> 
> b. The Britannica Encl. was more useful.  Here are some bits.  Circassia
> was in the NW region of the Caucasus moutains, north of the Black sea. 
> It had an "exotic" reputation "common to lands occupying a crucial area
> between rival empires" and 19th c. historians noted the Circassians'
> warlike & intrepid character as well as their hospitality to strangers. 
> In thegreat territorial wars between Russia, Persia & Turkey (beginning
> ca. 1785), the area was hotly contested.  Circassians continued a fierce
> & protracted resittance to Russia until their defeat in 1864, when some
> 400,000 (almost the entire pop.) chose to emigrate to other parts of the
> (former) USSR rather than live in subjection.  Circassians lived in a
> feudal state with princes & nobles.  Circassian girls and women were said
> to have been sold, often willingly, to Turkish merchants for the harems
> of Eastern monarchs.  Slavery was maintained until recent times; women
> had low status.
> 
> c. I know I've seen references in early 19th & 18th c. literature to
> "fair Circassians" in the Byronic, hareem sense...fair-skinned,
> dark-eyed, lascivious etc....but of course can't put my hands on them
> right now.
> 
> d. The Crimean War raged from 1853-56 on the Crimean penninsula which
> juts out into the northern part of the Black Sea & so in that time period
> everyone would be thinking about that part of Russia.
> 
> e. Thus leading into my conjecture:  a dancing master--maybe your early
> 1830 reference, possibly a later one, given the apparent lack of
> similarity between the multiple figure version that you described and the
> Howe version, made up a contra-style dance in the so-called "Spanish
> Dance" or "Sicilian Circle" formation & just chose to call it
> "Circassian" because of the romantic associations with the name.  In the
> Howe book, the dance appears in the section that includes lots of dances
> with ethnic or romantic names  like the "Varsorvienne," the "Sultan
> Polka," etc.
> 
> 
> Modern Folk Version
> 
> 1. One ECD correspondent pointed out that the Circ. Circle was published
> by EFDSS in Five Popular Country Dances in 1933.  I don't have a copy of
> this to verify.
> 
> 2. My version of the Community Dances Manual #1, published by the EFDSS
> in 1949 & subsequently revised, shows a 2-part dance, as follows (though
> I must say that there's nothing in the instructions to tell you whether
> you alternate between jig & reel time, or just do a bunch of jigs & then
> a bunch of reels.   Since Part 2 is a mixer, I incline to thinking it's
> the latter, although it could be done alternately, come to think of it
> (...and come to think of it, it might be a lot of fun this way)..... I
> know I've never done this dance in the 2 part version, though I've
> certainly danced each of the 2 bits, under what name or names, I do not
> remember):
> 
> The Circassian and the Big Circle
> (Collected by Maud Karpeles in Northumberland)
> 
> Part I:  The Circassian Circle (jig time--Sicilian Circle formation)
>    
> A1 Right & left through OR girls cross over (left) and men cross over
> (right) and repeat to places
> A2 Partners balance and swing
> B1 Ladies Chain
> B2 Swing & change OR promenade on to next couple
> 
> Part 2 The Big Circle
> 
> Form:  All join hands in one ring:  Each man with his partner on his
> right facing centre.
> 
> A1 Forward & back twice
> A2 Girls to centre & back again; Men go in and back to contrary partner,
> i.e., the girl on his left
> B1 Swing her round
> B2 Promenade around
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Another book, published to go with a cassette of music:   Barn Dance
> Saturday Night, ed. by Derek Jones, 1985, shows the Circassian Circle as
> the following, noting that it is "the traditional finish to a barn
> dance":  
> 
> Circassian Circle
> 
> Format:  Circle [i.e., big, rather than Sicilian]
> Tunes given are reels
> 
> A1 Join hands, go four steps into the middle and back.  And again.
> A2 Ladies go in 3 steps and clap; fall back.  Men go in and clap; turn
> and come back
> B1 Swing partner   [it says nothing about changing partners in this
> dance]
> B2 Promenade.
> 
> 
> 4. From Betty Casey's book International Folk dancing, U.S.A., (Doubleday
> & Co., 1981), there is a section on "English Folk Dancing," with the
> source of information being May Gadd and the CDSS  (actually, May would
> have been dead in 1981, Betty must have interviewed her much earlier
> ....)
> 
> Here it notes that "one version of this dance is performed by a single
> circle of dancers, the other by a double circle."--perhaps addressing the
> problem unanswered by the Community Dances version.
> 
> Circassian Circle (Single Circle)
> 
> Meter 6/8 (or any reel or hornpipe tune.
> Formation:  Single circle of partners (W at M's right side) with hands
> joined.
> Step:  Walk
> 
> A1 (I'm not following her transcrption exactly here)  All to the ctr 4
> stpes and back 4 steps and again
> A2 M stand in place W walk to center (4 stps) and clap on 4th stpe, then
> back to place; Men to center & clap, turn left around and walk to lady
> who was originally on L side
> B1 Swing new partner
> B2 Promenade
> 
> Double Circle, Progressive
> Meter: 6/8
> Formation: Sicilian Circle
> Step: Walk
> 
> A1 Right hand star & back by L
> A2 Face partner and balance 4 times (RLRL) and swing P
> B1 Ladies chain over and back
> B2 Couples walk 4 steps towards each other & back; then pass through to a
> new couple and do-sa-do the new person faced
> 
> 
> 5 Thus leading to pure conjecture....one night, Maud went to a barn dance
> in Northumberland where they danced a dance for a while in a Sicilian
> circle formation and then, at some mysterious (doubtless drunken) signal
> they all switched to a big circle and danced a different dance for a
> while.  Or maybe (not being too drunk) they alternated between the two. 
> In true Sharpian style, she collected this aberration & presumed it to be
> characteristic of *the* dance called Circassian Circle.  However, from
> that point on (and especially during the era dominated by recordings,
> rather than live music) the switch from jig to reel and also from a
> stay-with-partner dance to a mixer dance was not often done....and also
> (conjecture #2)...both forms of the dance lend themselves well to a
> caller's improvisation on the night & to be used as a method of teaching
> simple figures or of moving to the beat, in addition to being fun and
> (occasionally) a mixer.  (I have often done this "insta-variation"
> myself.) Hence the multiple variations that have accrued to this name
> over the years....and finally, (sweeping statement #1) if done in
> alternating form, 64-bar dances are not very common in the country/contra
> repertoire (tiring for musicians & dancers).  
> 
> I expect that the dance called Sicilian Circle would have the same kind
> of history.  Perhaps even the one called Spanish Waltz.
> 
> The interesting question is why some country/contra dances mutate & some
> don't.  I think that on occasion the association of a set of figures with
> a particular tune (i.e., Chorus Jig or Hull's Victory) will do the trick
> of keeping a dance stable.  I also suspect that dances notated in print
> more recently (i,.e., this copyright-conscious and literate century) are
> more stable than those from earlier times, but that's the subject of
> someone's dissertation!  It is good to remember that in general,
> country/contra dances have historically been highly mutable:  they
> represent re-combinations of a comparatively limited set of figures,
> after all.  There is a lot of evidence from 18th c. dancing manuals of
> publishers plagiarizing a set of figures & publishing them under a new
> tune & title.  I don't know if international dances work/worked like this
> or not.
> 
> 
> Cheerio!
> 
> Allison
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
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Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 03:28:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 03:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Normalform"
To: =?UNKNOWN?Q?ECD=A0list?= <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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There has been a recent discussion of Hambo "form" on the
<Scand-AT-
eGroups.com> mailing list, a Scandinavian Music and Dance
discussion group. Contradancers have once again been slammed for
all sorts of things. Anyway, the following was sent in by Paul
Jordan-Smith from Seattle, and maybe it puts a few of our own
recent discussions into a different perspective, too.

Andy in Portland


Paul Jordan-Smith wrote to <Scand-AT-
eGroups.com>:

There's a useful concept in folkloristics called Normalform
(it's a German term, despite its neat English equivalence, hence
the capitalization). A Normalform is that variant of an item,
whether a folktale, a ballad verse, a dance, a tune, or any
other piece of folklore, which serves as a standard by which
other variations are judged. It may be idiosyncratic (personal),
or social. If personal, it may be the way you first learned it,
or the way someone you respect taught it to you later; if
social, it may be "the way we've always done it" or some new way
that gains favor out of presumed authenticity (a treacherous
concept in itself) or just because it's fashionable. Departures
from Normalform are often regarded as wrong, untraditional, and
so on. The problem is, every person or social group tends to
regard his, her, or its own variant as the Normalform. In other
words, it's all relative.

A hundred years ago, many folklorists busied themselves trying
to find something called the Urform (another German word),
meaning "the original form" of a folklore item. Extensive and
elaborate studies were undertaken, notably among Finnish
folklorists, to discover a tale's origins. Though the idea of
Normalform retains its usefulness, the Urform concept has been
long abandoned as an exercise in futility: there is no
identifiable "original form" of a folklore item. Even a story
invented by a known storyteller does not become folklore until
it has been retold and accepted as "one of _our_ stories,"
rather than "one of her or his," and by that time, subtle
changes will have been introduced. It can also be said that
every performance of a story, dance, tune, etc. is unique, and
that the boundaries of acceptability (that is, conformance to
Normalform) are flexible. That's the case even in something as
specific as Uppdansning: otherwise, very few would win medals.

The hambo done at contra dance events in Seattle may look to
some more like what they regard as the Swedish Normalform than
the hambo done in South Carolina, New England, Boulder, or
Portland; but it's still unlikely to win anyone a respectable
place at Hälsinge competitions. As several contributors have
pointed out, it may not conform to _our_ Normalform, but it's
still what those dancers do, and persist in doing. Is it
"wrong?" Nope. It's just different. It may not be a pretty sight
to some eyes, but if the dancers are enjoying themselves, our
clucking is just irrelevant Grundyism. And as for our own
competence in matching the presumed Normalform--even our own--we
open ourselves there to outright ridicule. (For that matter, the
Hälsinge variation is not the only Normalform in Sweden;
variants exist all over.)

Changing the case at hand, would someone like Peter Michaelsen
care to comment on the divergent Boda musical traditions, which
of course affect the form of the dance? If we already encounter
difficulties at Uppdansning (for example, between Malung
variations and the recent tendency towards merging them), what
effect will divergence within a living tradition such as Boda
have on our Normalforms?

With apologies for technical jargon--
Paul Jordan-Smith

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:03:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:03:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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Just remember-

Turlough O'Carolan (1670 - 1738), composer of Sheebeg & Sheemore,
Planxty Fanny Power, Hewlett and countless other favorite waltzes
died some 50 years before the waltz developed.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:57:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:45:30 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wigton
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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pavilion>
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On my machine my note about the Wigton collection turned up about 4 times -
I only sent it once so don't know what happened :-)

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:57:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:48:04 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Rant
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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pavilion>
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Could someone tell me what a "rant" step is?  I've seen it mentioned a
number of times but don't know that I've seen it done (or didn't know that's
what it's called).
Thanks,
Diana

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:22:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:21:52 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[155.99.169.173]>
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Someone has said that Well Hall is a minuet.  I knew it wasn't a waltz, and
have wondered how the steps should be done (to avoid plodding through the
dance).  I did a quick search and found the following:

http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/adaptations/regency/archive/messages/6438.html

in which these instructions are given:

        *1- Step forward with the left foot.

       *2- Bring your right instep to your left heel.

       *3- Pause.

       *4- Take a small step forward with the right foot.

       *5- Take a small step forward with your left foot.

       *6- Take a small step forward with your right foot.


But I can't really imagine doing Well Hall with this step.  Also, the
instructions go on to describe a couple-dance, not a set dance.  How should
one phrase one's steps for Well Hall and other dances with minuet tunes?
And is Hole in the Wall another minuet?

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


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Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:22:48 PST
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:21:55 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Rant
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <p0433011db5e6e166728d-AT-
[216.238.224.75]>
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References: <00c501c01e86$114ec600$e0e2490c-AT-
pavilion>

>Could someone tell me what a "rant" step is?  I've seen it mentioned a
>number of times but don't know that I've seen it done (or didn't know that's
>what it's called).
>Thanks,
>  Diana
>
>Dianna L. Shipman
>diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
>PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
>Houston, TX 77019-3908
>Scottish Country Dancing and More
>web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
>phone: 713-522-1212


the best teaching move I've seen used to teach a rant is to have the 
student hop on one foot as follows:

hop hop change hop hop change

so:  L L R;  R R L

with a slightly longer beat on the last of each phrase.  When I first 
learned to rant, and even today, you hear it described as "po-tat o 
chip"  The extra syllable is caused by the non-weightbearing foot 
tapping freely on the first beat.  No weight is placed on that free 
foot, it just taps, usually in front of the person, depending on what 
else is happening (like travelling or turning)  That tap is nothing 
more than a syncopation in the phrase which is what's good about 
teaching the hop hop change part first.

Put Morpeth's Rant on and you'll get an idea of the rhythm involved!

Although NW Morris puts some oomph in ranting, when you see it in ECD 
in north country dancing it's often very low to the ground and 
polka-esque (hope I don't offend anyone by saying that) and you can 
do a lot of ranting in that mode and still travel as far etc.

Like those chips though -- once you try ranting, you won't be able to 
stop! :-D  Doing it in clogs is the best!!

General question to the list -- what's the report from Pinewoods English Week?

Mary Beth
Rant til ya can't!
Quilt til ya wilt!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:55:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Emma Rushton wrote:

  Someone has said that Well Hall is a minuet.  I knew it wasn't a waltz, and
  have wondered how the steps should be done (to avoid plodding through the
  dance).  I did a quick search and found the following:

  http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/adaptations/regency/archive/messages/6438.html


[Hey, the Republic of Pemberley is run by a consortium including my friend
Kali Pappas, who has hall liaison for the last BACDS Playford Ball.  Small
world, huh?]


  in which these instructions are given:

         *1- Step forward with the left foot.

         *2- Bring your right instep to your left heel.
 
         *3- Pause.

         *4- Take a small step forward with the right foot.

         *5- Take a small step forward with your left foot.

         *6- Take a small step forward with your right foot.

It's certainly a six-count step, but these are kind of degenerate minuet
instructions that leave out the characteristic sinking and rising that make 
the minuet step dramatic.  Also, you need to remember that this is done with
considerable turnout, toes pointing away from each other.  (I will say that
this is a reasonable fake that will at least have you standing still or 
moving at the same time as others doing the minuet.)  Note that I barely know
what I'm talking about, and don't operate medical equipment or nuclear power
generation facilities based on these instructions or suggestions.

From memory, and sure that someone will correct me (Gene?  Carol? Julia?),
it's more like 

   6 - step down on the left, heel almost touching floor
   1 - rise on the left foot, bring right foot forward
   2 - in place, sink and rise (bend and straighten knees, no travel)
   3 - step forward on ball of right foot, heel well off ground
   4 - step forward on ball of left foot   "
   5 - step forward on ball of right foot  "

(No, I can't explain why it's counted that way.)

   But I can't really imagine doing Well Hall with this step.  

Probably because you haven't heard Well Hall played in a way that supports
a minuet step, which requires fairly distinct two-bar phrases.

   Also, the instructions go on to describe a couple-dance, not a set dance.  

Certainly "the minuet" is a family of dances for a couple, with a very 
distinctive Z-shaped floor pattern and an assortment of other figures.
When used to open a ball, either the couple of highest precedence would be the
only ones to do it, or couples were lined up as for a country dance and then
each took a turn in order of precedence.  This would take a long time, but 
then balls used to go on until 3:00 in the morning or later.  However, the
step itself was used in country dances as well.  The reconstructed Drapers'
Maggot is, in my view, much more satisfactory with some kind of minuet step
than with a waltz step.

  How should one phrase one's steps for Well Hall and other dances with minuet
  tunes?

If you're really interested in this, I'd think - and again my advice is 
inexpert here - that you should get the Hendrickson Group's tapes of minuets
from the Thomas Jefferson collection, which have suggested minuet patterns,
and practice with them.  Those are recording of minuet music played at real
dance tempo by someone who understands what the stepping is.

While I'm sure that Jacqueline Schwab, et al, could play Well Hall
very well as a minuet, trying to do the minuet step to the Well Hall recording
on the first Bare Necessities album will only end in tears.

  And is Hole in the Wall another minuet?

Jody McGeen taught this ten years ago with other Baroque steps; I think 
they were a pas de bourree and contretemps sequence.  Here on the list 
Gene Murrow mentioned a hornpipe step - HitW is a hornpipe in the baroque
sense - that fit very well.  It's pretty clearly not a minuet.

Hope this helps!

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:19:57 PST
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:18:00 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330125b5e6f0d512d6-AT-
[216.238.224.75]>
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>   How should one phrase one's steps for Well Hall and other dances with minuet
>   tunes?

Well if all else fails -- do it as a rant!

Just kidding!!!

But seriously, no one plays it as a minuet either.

Mary Beth
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:35:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Well Hall as a minuet
To: ECD-AT-
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(Hi, Emma!)

The Colonial Assembly of the Germantown Country Dancers (Philadelphia,
Pennsylvania) performs Well Hall with a minuet step.  Perhaps Sam or Sandy
Rotenberg could chime in with details (I just play the music)...

- Susie Lorand
  quasi-early-American musician
  Princeton, NJ, USA

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:31:15 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Great discussion about minuets, waltzes, hornpipes and ECD, etc.!  This
whole business is near to my musician/caller/early musicker heart.  I've
got some useful (I think) information and opinions to contribute, but I'm
madly preparing for the "Maggots, Gypsies and Other Divertissements"
week-end in Atlanta starting tomorrow.  So why don't y'all come on down
to Atlanta and we'll discuss it there (Jacqueline, Earl G. and Daron D.
doing the music-- what's not to like?)!

More next week, if the fire still burns...  Carol Marsh, are you out
there!!?!? 

Sinking on 2 and 6,

Gene Murrow
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Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:17:54 PST
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Rant
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> wrote:
In response to Diana asking what a "rant" step is? 
> the best teaching move I've seen used to teach a rant is to
> have the student hop on one foot as follows:
> 
> hop hop change hop hop change
> 
> so:  L L R;  R R L
> 
> with a slightly longer beat on the last of each phrase.  When
> I first learned to rant, and even today, you hear it described

> as "po-tat-o chip"  The extra syllable is caused by the 
> non-weightbearing foot tapping freely on the first beat.  No 
> weight is placed on that free foot, it just taps, usually in 
> front of the person, depending on what else is happening (like

> travelling or turning)  That tap is nothing more than a 
> syncopation in the phrase which is what's good about teaching 
> the hop hop change part first.
> 

I agree that the hop hop change method seems to work best for
teaching the basics of the rant step, because then people aren't
trying to get that tap in before they have the underlying
rhythm. The tap, which follows slightly after the first hop when
stepping in place, actually becomes a weight change when dancing
around in a closed ballroom hold with your partner. Not
tranfering weight onto that foot stops your momentum and makes
for a very awkward turn. I still remember the first time I
*really* got the turning step. It was while dancing Morpeth Rant
with Ellen Judson during a (unsanctioned) late night after-party
in the old Dodge Gym at Berea Christmas Country Dance School. I
felt the rhythm of her stepping and it was like a light suddenly
came on; for the first time I really understood the rant. I've
always found it very elusive to try to teach those fine points. 

Dodge Gym, then the Berea Country Dancers practice hall, was
torn down years ago, but when I first went to Berea CCDS,
somebody always had a key to Dodge and we would dance as long as
the musicians would play for us. The music was always good and
usually included Jim Morrison, Fred Bruenig, Hank Chapin and Bob
Dalsemer. Ethel Capps knew we had those after hours gatherings
and would scold us about them. After singing and punch in the
parlor of the main dance venue she would always make comments
about going to bed and getting a good rest for the next days'
activities, then we'd all go off and party some more, but she
never really made any effort to stop us. 

> Put Morpeth's Rant on and you'll get an idea of the rhythm
> involved!
> 
> Although NW Morris puts some oomph in ranting, when you see it
> in ECD in north country dancing it's often very low to the 
> ground and polka-esque (hope I don't offend anyone by saying 
> that) and you can do a lot of ranting in that mode and still 
> travel as far etc.
> 
Actually "polka-esque" is not really very far off. The step is
exactly the same as a Finnish Polka except that in Finnish Polka
both feet land together on the first hop. When traveling, there
is definately weight put on the "free", or tapping, foot. I saw
a group from Finland at the Astoria midsummer festival a few
years ago and they really covered ground in the turning step.
Finnish Polkas are *very* fast, generally turning in either
direction, but sometimes traveling in line, with a closed
shoulder-waist hold rather than standard ballroom. Most
Scandinavina dancing is with a closed hold except for Danish
which generally uses a standard ballroom hold.

> Like those chips though -- once you try ranting, you won't be
> able to stop! :-D  Doing it in clogs is the best!!
> 
As the general dance population is aging (I'd say the median age
here is now around 50), I have a hard time finding people who
will do rants. I would love to rant more often, or Finnish Polka
for that matter.

Andy in Portland OR

__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:22:37 PST
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:24:08 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: Rant
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi, Dianna:

Mary Beth Goodman has gone a long way in describing the "rant".

What she omitted to point out -- a very important aspect of the rant
as done in the north which is different from the south.

It is a "tap" on the floor with the free foot alongside the "hopping" foot.

In the "Dorsetshire Four-hand Reel" the tap is approximately about
half way between the toe and heel.

As I was taught at Cecil Sharp House, the northern rant is just
about beside the toes.

I am sure there is a more experienced person who could be more
precise in this positioning.

The "rant" appears in many dances and is a fun-dance to do!!

Cheers, John

> Could someone tell me what a "rant" step is?  I've seen it mentioned a
> number of times but don't know that I've seen it done (or didn't know that's
> what it's called).

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:39:56 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Rant
To: ECD-AT-
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At 4:17 PM -0700 9/14/00, Andrew Peterson wrote:
>  The tap, which follows slightly after the first hop when
>stepping in place, actually becomes a weight change when dancing
>around in a closed ballroom hold with your partner. Not
>tranfering weight onto that foot stops your momentum and makes
>for a very awkward turn.

yes I can agree with this, although the rest of the time while 
dancing un-attached to partner, I'm mostly using the spring of the 
hopping foot to travel with.

The toughest part for Ron and I is the transition between straight 
ranting and partnered turning -- seems we're generally on the same 
foot I think for the set dancing and then need to switch to mirrored 
feet for the turning -- we generally slug it out until it works. 
stronger "man" wins! LOL  I suppose we should transition feet before 
we get there or work on mirroring from the start but it hasn't 
happened yet.

Mary Beth
was ranting, now quilting!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:38:29 PST
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:38:15 -0500
From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:  

>It's certainly a six-count step, but these are kind of degenerate minuet
>instructions that leave out the characteristic sinking and rising that make 
>the minuet step dramatic.  Also, you need to remember that this is done with
>considerable turnout, toes pointing away from each other.  (I will say that
>this is a reasonable fake that will at least have you standing still or 
>moving at the same time as others doing the minuet.)  Note that I barely know
>what I'm talking about, and don't operate medical equipment or nuclear power
>generation facilities based on these instructions or suggestions.
>
>>From memory, and sure that someone will correct me (Gene?  Carol? Julia?),
>it's more like 
>
>   6 - step down on the left, heel almost touching floor
>   1 - rise on the left foot, bring right foot forward
>   2 - in place, sink and rise (bend and straighten knees, no travel)
>   3 - step forward on ball of right foot, heel well off ground
>   4 - step forward on ball of left foot   "
>   5 - step forward on ball of right foot  "
>
>(No, I can't explain why it's counted that way.)

In another one of those subversive, government-sponsored movie clips,
found at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html#vc026
a dancer is performing a Minuet step much like the one Alan describes.
I'd be interested in feedback about whether this clip is a reasonable 
model, and about whether the series of movies at these sites: 
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/diessay0.html
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/divideos.html#vc001
are a reliable resource.  There's a *gob* of material there.

As for why it's counted that way, I can hazard a guess. 
The action on step one seems to be *very* dependant upon the 
action of step six.  Step six would seem to be as necessary 
as are the pickup notes at the beginning of some pieces of 
music.  It doesn't sound right in the music, or feel right in 
the dance, to start at beat one or step one.  I'd even bet, 
without really knowing the literature, that Minuet music often 
has a strong pickup for that reason.

Roger Diggle

Any apparent resemblance of these opinions to any other opinions,
whether actual or imagined, certainly is a coincidence, isn't it.

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:05:31 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b5e750699ca1-AT-
[140.186.54.218]>
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Those citations are really neat, and totally accurate.

Just excrutiatingly much too short.  Sigh

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:16:40 PST
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:25:43 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39C1CEF7.1628E98B-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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Some more thoughts on triple time tunes, waltzes, minuets, hornpipes.

James Langdell wrote:

> Well, in that case, neither tune should be used for the dance
> called "Duke of Kent's Waltz", because that's a country dance,
> not a couple-dance waltz or minuet.

The fact that it is a country dance doesn't make any difference for the footwork as
such.
Steps were used in country dances, too, by certain people, at certain times ("if the
company can do it"). As for minuets, there's for example "Mr. Lane's Trumpet
Minuet", as published in The Dancing Master. Beautiful dance. Moreover, in Baroque
times, one and the same tune could be used for a couple dance and for a country
dance. I believe the tune for the country dance "Prince William" was also used for a
couple dance.

> There's a wide spectrum of feelings in triple-meter tunes.
> Some can suit several different dance functions well, especially
> when the melody is propelled with varying tempos and accompaniament.

But that is exactly my point and probably where we disagree. Tunes shouldn't be
"propelled" too much.

David Barnert wrote:

Just remember.
Turlough O'Carolan (1670 - 1738), composer of Sheebeg & Sheemore,
Planxty Fanny Power, Hewlett and countless other favorite waltzes
died some 50 years before the waltz developed.

O'Carolan didn't write any waltzes at all. It is "us" who play them as waltzes. I
use an awful lot of them.


Emma Rushton wrote:

in which these instructions are given:

        *1- Step forward with the left foot.

       *2- Bring your right instep to your left heel.

       *3- Pause.

       *4- Take a small step forward with the right foot.

       *5- Take a small step forward with your left foot.

       *6- Take a small step forward with your right foot.


I don't know where you got this from, but a minuet step always starts on the RIGHT
foot.

I'll say one more thing and then keep my mouth shut. I don't disagree with using,
shaping, adapting country dances and its tunes from 17th and 18the century sources
for modern use, but I feel there are certain limits. After all we are doing dances
from the past so one should pay some respect to its origin.

Philippe Callens


P.S. 1 - More examples of country dances to minuet-triple-time tunes: Come, let's be
merry, Wa'Is Me What Mun I Do, Volpony, Irish Lamentation, Well Hall, Joy After
Sorrow. And at least one contemporary dance: New Beginning.

P.S. 2 - For those interested I'll lead a "triple time workshop" at the Casterton
Dance Weekend, Cumbria, UK, April 2001, hopefully to the music of Belshazzar's
Feast.

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:03:25 +0100
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005101c01f26$19c91240$898c183e-AT-
oemcomputer>
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At the Grand Bal de l'Europe in1996, the group mascaradesca(?) teaching
renaissance dancing, had us doing a single and a double alternately. This
turned out to ba a minuet step! try it. francis
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet?


> Emma Rushton wrote:
>
>   Someone has said that Well Hall is a minuet.  I knew it wasn't a waltz,
and
>   have wondered how the steps should be done (to avoid plodding through
the
>   dance).  I did a quick search and found the following:
>
>
http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/adaptations/regency/archive/messages/6438.html
>
>
> [Hey, the Republic of Pemberley is run by a consortium including my friend
> Kali Pappas, who has hall liaison for the last BACDS Playford Ball.  Small
> world, huh?]
>
>
>   in which these instructions are given:
>
>          *1- Step forward with the left foot.
>
>          *2- Bring your right instep to your left heel.
>
>          *3- Pause.
>
>          *4- Take a small step forward with the right foot.
>
>          *5- Take a small step forward with your left foot.
>
>          *6- Take a small step forward with your right foot.
>
> It's certainly a six-count step, but these are kind of degenerate minuet
> instructions that leave out the characteristic sinking and rising that
make
> the minuet step dramatic.  Also, you need to remember that this is done
with
> considerable turnout, toes pointing away from each other.  (I will say
that
> this is a reasonable fake that will at least have you standing still or
> moving at the same time as others doing the minuet.)  Note that I barely
know
> what I'm talking about, and don't operate medical equipment or nuclear
power
> generation facilities based on these instructions or suggestions.
>
> >From memory, and sure that someone will correct me (Gene?  Carol?
Julia?),
> it's more like
>
>    6 - step down on the left, heel almost touching floor
>    1 - rise on the left foot, bring right foot forward
>    2 - in place, sink and rise (bend and straighten knees, no travel)
>    3 - step forward on ball of right foot, heel well off ground
>    4 - step forward on ball of left foot   "
>    5 - step forward on ball of right foot  "
>
> (No, I can't explain why it's counted that way.)
>
>    But I can't really imagine doing Well Hall with this step.
>
> Probably because you haven't heard Well Hall played in a way that supports
> a minuet step, which requires fairly distinct two-bar phrases.
>
>    Also, the instructions go on to describe a couple-dance, not a set
dance.
>
> Certainly "the minuet" is a family of dances for a couple, with a very
> distinctive Z-shaped floor pattern and an assortment of other figures.
> When used to open a ball, either the couple of highest precedence would be
the
> only ones to do it, or couples were lined up as for a country dance and
then
> each took a turn in order of precedence.  This would take a long time, but
> then balls used to go on until 3:00 in the morning or later.  However, the
> step itself was used in country dances as well.  The reconstructed
Drapers'
> Maggot is, in my view, much more satisfactory with some kind of minuet
step
> than with a waltz step.
>
>   How should one phrase one's steps for Well Hall and other dances with
minuet
>   tunes?
>
> If you're really interested in this, I'd think - and again my advice is
> inexpert here - that you should get the Hendrickson Group's tapes of
minuets
> from the Thomas Jefferson collection, which have suggested minuet
patterns,
> and practice with them.  Those are recording of minuet music played at
real
> dance tempo by someone who understands what the stepping is.
>
> While I'm sure that Jacqueline Schwab, et al, could play Well Hall
> very well as a minuet, trying to do the minuet step to the Well Hall
recording
> on the first Bare Necessities album will only end in tears.
>
>   And is Hole in the Wall another minuet?
>
> Jody McGeen taught this ten years ago with other Baroque steps; I think
> they were a pas de bourree and contretemps sequence.  Here on the list
> Gene Murrow mentioned a hornpipe step - HitW is a hornpipe in the baroque
> sense - that fit very well.  It's pretty clearly not a minuet.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:51:01 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Rant
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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accesscable.net>

All though Mary Beth is correct for the rhythm, there are many "steps"
that can be done to the rant rhythm. At a GUSTO advanced English
Traditional course last year we tried at least a dozen different rant
steps.

To generalise to say there is a basic difference between the North and
the South is to over simplify the situation. Most modern dances would
dance the rant crossing the free foot in front to tap. It was, however,
possible that the step was done to show off one's footwork.

Mary Beth is also correct in saying that it is a step that is done low
to the floor. Think of doing rant dances all night. Hard on the legs or
what.

Graham Knight

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:44:42 +0100
From: graham-AT-
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Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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I have on the authority of a long standing musician in the UK that Well
Hall was not a minuet, even though it is 3/2 time. This was also
confirmed by a leading authority on historical and country dance in this
country.

Apparently (not being a musician) the way the music is structured does
not make it a minuet. It does not necessarily follow that tunes in 3/2,
or that are now in 3/4, were minuets.

It has also been suggested to me that the step pattern for a minuet
might have been varied depending on the tune as there are 6 counts for
each step.

Graham Knight


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:30:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:35:50 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Satyrs and dancing
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01c02071$8554e2e0$4deaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Today I picked up my order from Alibris, which is a copy of Christopher
Smart's "Rejoice in the Lamb," (aka "Jubilate Agno").  The opening pages of
the poem contain a list of characters from the Bible, who are paired up with
an animal, and exhorted to praise God.  One of the lines is:

"Let Jakim with the Satyr bless God in the dance."

Jakim was the chief priest during David's reign; Psalm 150 has a line in it
about praising God with the timbrel and dance; but does anyone know where
the Satyr comes into this equation?  I've looked satyrs up in both the
concordance to my Bible and in Cruden's concordance (Alexander Cruden,
another fellow with a religious mania, and a contemporary of Smart.  What
was it about religious manias in the 1700s?), and neither one of them gives
references for satyrs (and I know they're in there; in the ruins of Babylon,
according to Isaiah, the satyr shall call to his fellow).

The notes in the book track down every reference on that page *except* the
one about Jakim and the Satyr.  Grrr.

Many thanks in advance for any light anyone can shed, and hoping that
dancing satyrs are considered on-topic --

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:40:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:09:24 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dancing weekend
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000917100924.007fbe40-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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For those that never follow up URLs that appear beneath signatures, and for
any intrepid travelers that may be reading the list:

The Grenoble dancers are planning to enjoy themselves on 17th, 18th & 19th
November.  Come and join us.

David Hall and the Manchester band will be playing (Deo et airlines
volentes !).
                                     
                Friday :  Ceilidh evening.
                Saturday : Afternoon workshop, 15.30 to 18.30,
                                 a buffet meal together,
                     and a dancing party in the evening,  20.00 to 23.00.
                   (We shall be celebrating our secretary's 80th birthday.)
                                          -
               Sunday  :  Daytime ball "1920-2000" : 9h30 – 16h30,
                                          - 
                       The program, made up of dances from each decade of
the century since the foundng of the RSCDS, can be found at:
 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/18nov.htm

Description of less well-known dances will be added shortly.

See you soon ?

Martin,
in Grenoble, France.

                                    
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:35:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:27:52 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing weekend
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000a01c020f7$eee6fbe0$628c01d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3.0.5.32.20000917100924.007fbe40-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>

Martin,
I never realised David Hall played for ECD - I've only been to Scottish
dances that he has played at. (Or is it a Scottish weekend you are
advertising?)  If anyone is over in France, the music should be well
worth going for!!
Hope it goes well,
Trev.

----- Original Message -----
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 9:09 AM
Subject: dancing weekend


>
> For those that never follow up URLs that appear beneath signatures,
and for
> any intrepid travelers that may be reading the list:
>
> The Grenoble dancers are planning to enjoy themselves on 17th, 18th &
19th
> November.  Come and join us.
>
> David Hall and the Manchester band will be playing (Deo et airlines
> volentes !).
>
>                 Friday :  Ceilidh evening.
>                 Saturday : Afternoon workshop, 15.30 to 18.30,
>                                  a buffet meal together,
>                      and a dancing party in the evening,  20.00 to
23.00.
>                    (We shall be celebrating our secretary's 80th
birthday.)
>                                           -
>                Sunday  :  Daytime ball "1920-2000" : 9h30 - 16h30,
>                                           -
>                        The program, made up of dances from each decade
of
> the century since the foundng of the RSCDS, can be found at:
>  http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/18nov.htm
>
> Description of less well-known dances will be added shortly.
>
> See you soon ?
>
> Martin,
> in Grenoble, France.
>
>



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:34:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:04:51 -0400
From: Allison M Thompson <allisonthompson-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Well Hall
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000917.200514.-5719.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mary Beth wrote ....

"...no one plays it [Well Hall] as a minuet either...."

This statement came as a shock to me in the arm-pit of the Midwest (i.e.,
Pittsburgh) where we play minuets, most O'Carolan airs & Baroque
hornpipes as wrote, rather than as waltz time.  In fact, that is why I
posted earlier on this topic--wondering whether the tendency to play any
tune presently written in a quasi-3/4 meter as always a waltz was
idiosyncratic or general.

Some "minuet" tunes or O'Carolan-type airs do lend themselves to being
played today in waltz-time (and are much more satisfying as such for
*modern* dancers).  I'd classify Come Let's Be Merry & even the
lately-discussed Whitehall Minuet &, of course, Shebeg Shemore in this
category.  But some, to me, are bastardized by trying to fit them into a
waltz style:  and here I'd include Well Hall, Fair & Softly, of course
something like Orleans Baffled.

I'm lucky to play with musicians who are trained Baroque players.  The
challenge for many callers, however, is to communicate to the band when
and why certain tunes should be in a real POM-pom-pom waltz rhythim
versus a minuet rhythm.

Allison

________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:50:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:49:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Waltz - Minuet Confusion
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <87.c71c14.26f6cec1-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I wrote:

 >Just remember-
 >
 >Turlough O'Carolan (1670 - 1738), composer of Sheebeg &
 >Sheemore, Planxty Fanny Power, Hewlett and countless other
 >favorite waltzes died some 50 years before the waltz developed.

Philippe Callens wrote:

 >O'Carolan didn't write any waltzes at all. It is "us" who play
 >them as waltzes.

That was my point. When I first heard "Hewlett" (on an early
Chieftans album) it was played much faster than a waltz.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:56:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:56:23 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Well Hall
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330106b5eb25d34fc8-AT-
[216.238.225.58]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20000917.200514.-5719.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

>Mary Beth wrote ....
>
>"...no one plays it [Well Hall] as a minuet either...."
>
>This statement came as a shock to me in the arm-pit of the Midwest (i.e.,
>Pittsburgh) where we play minuets, most O'Carolan airs & Baroque
>hornpipes as wrote, rather than as waltz time.  In fact, that is why I
>posted earlier on this topic--wondering whether the tendency to play any
>tune presently written in a quasi-3/4 meter as always a waltz was
>idiosyncratic or general.

I expect as much minuet feeling as a waltz feeling I guess in either 
type. In my experience Well hall is played extremely without emphasis 
and with great fluidity, and neither as a waltz nor a minuet.
Perhaps modern interpretation of this dance has led it far afield 
from the original.

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:11:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:11:03 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Well Hall
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39C579B7.85C3CB0B-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20000917.200514.-5719.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com> <p04330106b5eb25d34fc8-AT-
[216.238.225.58]>



Mary Beth Goodman wrote (in part):

> In my experience Well hall is played extremely without emphasis
> and with great fluidity, and neither as a waltz nor a minuet.
> Perhaps modern interpretation of this dance has led it far afield
> from the original.

Almost certainly modern interpretation, which doesn't call for any special
stepping, is far from the original.  It is also possible that the the stepping
in this time wasnot a minuet originally. Consider, for example,
    R (plie), L, R
    L (plie), R, L

Albert

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:26:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:18:06 -0700
From: srotenbe-AT-
impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: Well Hall
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39C5A58E.2A81BBF4-AT-
mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <20000917.200514.-5719.3.AllisonThompson-AT-
juno.com>

A few words about minuets, and Well Hall.

Yes, the Germantown Country Dancers' performance group,  "The Colonial
Assembly"  does dance Well Hall as a minuet.  We also dance Joy After Sorrow
as a minuet. But we do this in full costume and for performance only.  When
we dance these dances socially, we just use a normal dance step.  The
Smithsonian video clips referred to are a great demonstration of minuets, and
there are folks who teach minuets, but I don't recommend adding minuet steps
at a social dance as they take much time and practice and aren't appropriate
in that context anyway. A workshop of Colonial footwork might be be a fine
context. Other dances like Young Widow are also done with footwork, (bouree,
contretemps, rigadoon).  Again, these dances are great social dances done
with a normal walking dance step.

Minuets are wonderful, but the basic skills needed are much like ballet:
knowledge of plie, releve and turn out. There are several performance groups
around the country, in addition to ours,  that do minuets as well as other
dances from the Colonial period.  If you're in the area we (Germantown
Country Dancers, Colonial Assembly) are doing a brief performance with
minuets at the Heritage Dance Festival next Sunday, Sept. 24th. Details about
the festival can be found on their website:
http://www.heritagedancefestival.com/  We will be performing Duport's Minuet;
a smashing four woman rendition of Mr. Holt's minuet; and Trumpet Minuet,
from Handel's Water Music.

Sandy Rotenberg


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:40:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:40:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: minuet rhythm
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F18HNuQuN6tdqV00002653-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Oh gosh darn it! I've had enough!! So for heaven's sake *WHAT* is the minuet 
rhythm? (as opposed to the BOOM-boom-boom 3/4 of the waltz.)

Musicians, pfeh... You know, the locals did the right thing in the village 
of Abbots Bromley in the 16th c., when as Hutton tells us, they once loosed 
a bull on the musicians.

sincerely
Steve Corrsin
_________________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:19:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:19:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009181116430.6500-100000-AT-
choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Stephen D. Corrsin wrote:

> Oh gosh darn it! I've had enough!! So for heaven's sake *WHAT* is the minuet 
> rhythm? (as opposed to the BOOM-boom-boom 3/4 of the waltz.)

YUM-tum-tum-Tum-tiddly-um.

At least, for Pooh fans.

Eric (tongue busily occupied with wad of honey in cheek) Arnold



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:21:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:21:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009181120000.6500-100000-AT-
choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.

Eric


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:23:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:25:26 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Heritage Dance Festival (Was: Well Hall)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39C633E6.E3861623-AT-
erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <009F04C6.888234FB.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

Sandy Rotenberg wrote:


> If you're in the area we (Germantown
> Country Dancers, Colonial Assembly) are doing a brief performance with
> minuets at the Heritage Dance Festival next Sunday, Sept. 24th. Details about
> the festival can be found on their website:
> http://www.heritagedancefestival.com/  We will be performing Duport's Minuet;
> a smashing four woman rendition of Mr. Holt's minuet; and Trumpet Minuet,
> from Handel's Water Music.

And the festival is well worth attending just for the English country
dance, of which there are eight dance sessions and at least two music
sessions in addition to Germantown's performance of country dance as
well as colonial (plus of course contras, Scottish, zweifachers, Sacred
Harp, swing, etc.).

Mary Kay Friday (blushing because I *am* leading some of these)
Washington, D.C.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:08:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:08:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Heritage Dance Festival (Was: Well Hall)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <73.6dd4bf9.26f797f5-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi Folks-
    Does anyone know of hospitality for a dancer(female)for the Heritage 
Dance Festival-from Sat to Sunday?   Thanks Sandra
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:42:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:26:51 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <009501c0218f$9ae65480$d6e2490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009181120000.6500-100000-AT-
choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Arnold" <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)


> P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
> cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:57:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:56:06 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What non-ECD dances do you include?
To: List - ECD SSRL04 <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKEELCDIAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here's a 2nd try on the question, since I think I fell thru the discussion
crack.  I'd really appreciate any feedback/suggestions.

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 1:25 AM
To: ECD LIST
Subject: What non-ECD dances do you include?

Folks,

I got an interesting question from a musician who recently because enamored
with a Regency style choreography called the "Congress of Vienna".  He said
he liked it so much for the music and wondered if I'd be willing to teach it
to his ECD group so they could dance it and he could play the music.

This got me thinking about the kinds of "bonus" dances included along with
an ECD program.  Some of the common ones I thought of were:

1) Viennese waltz (usually as the last dance, or before the break)
2) Bourree
3) Schottische
4) Norwegian Polka (which isn't Norwegian or a polka)
5) Hambo
6) Zweifacher

And I have seen the occasional swing dance at a contra, though not at an ECD
night.  Of course, I'm talking about a regular dance series, and not a camp
or other special event.

So what do you do?  Do you have criteria for what gets included or not?

Of course, I'll coagulate the responses and regurgitate a summary back.  :-)

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
http://connect.to/ric


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:08:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:38:17 -0400
From: "Martin E. Mulligan" <mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: New Assembly Players CD
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04011704b5ec0e7cdc34-AT-
[134.153.108.151]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Readers of this list may be interested in the new Assembly Players Cd "Pat
Shaw's Playford".  I received a copy recently.

I'll admit to a slight bias - since this is the music of the wonderful
Assembly Ball that I attended in Edinburgh last year, I am somewhat
predisposed to like it.

Still, I think this is a super CD that many of you would also appreciate.

I particularly liked the arrangements of "Holborn March", "Fair Quaker of
Deal", "Whimbleton House" and "Mr Beveridge's Maggot".   The latter is the
AAB arrangement that Nicolas Broadbridge has mentioned recently on this
list.  In addition, the CD also include "Up with Aily" and "Hair's Maggot'
both to their original tunes also as described recently by Nicolas.

The recording of "Never Love Thee More" is peppier than that on the
Pemberley players Pride and Prejudice recording but it retains all the
elegance of the slower version.

There are a number of other dances on the CD that are (to me) not common
which also makes this CD worth owning.

I'm sure Nicolas can provide more details and instructions for ordering etc.

Martin



===========================================================
Martin E. Mulligan
St. John's  (Newfoundland)
email: mulligan-AT-
mun.ca
===========================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:11:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:11:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009181301230.6500-100000-AT-
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Dianna Shipman wrote:

> Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)

In this case, instead of playing two measures of triple-time music
"straight" (i.e. with the primary emphasis on the first beat of each
measure), playing it as though it were written as three measures of two
beats each:

	Normal minuet:	|DUM dum dum|Dum dum dum|
	Hemiola:	|DUM dum|Dum dum|Dum dum|

This would typically occur just before the end of of a section of the
music.

Eric

> 
> > P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
> > cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.

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From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
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Subject: Re: What non-ECD dances do you include?
To: ECD-AT-
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Ric Goldman wrote:


>This got me thinking about the kinds of "bonus" dances included along with
>an ECD program.  Some of the common ones I thought of were:

>1) Viennese waltz (usually as the last dance, or before the break)
>2) Bourree
>3) Schottische
>4) Norwegian Polka (which isn't Norwegian or a polka)
>5) Hambo
>6) Zweifacher

>So what do you do?  Do you have criteria for what gets included or not?

I don't think I would call the waltz I usually see at English dances 
"Viennese waltz".  It's slower and looser; I think of it as 'folk waltz',
although that's not much of a term.

Seen rarely: Polka (as distinct from Norwegian Polka), Redowa, Mazurka.  

There was a bonus Scottish dance ("Mairi's Wedding") at the Palo Alto 
English dance last Friday - because somebody requested it; I've seen
the Swedish 'Family Waltz' (waltz mixer) at ECD as well.  I wouldn't
be totally surprised to see some American leakage as well; Ted's triplets
wouldn't be altogether out of place.

Programming for ECD, I'm usually happy to leave the choice of couple dances to
the band, since they'll pick something they'll enjoy playing.  If I ask for
anything, it's usually a waltz.

In Regency context, I specified an allemande for the upcoming Marquis de
Lafayette Ball, as well as a couple of choreographed waltzes.

-- Alan



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 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
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From: Punxeguda-AT-
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Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
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In a message dated 09/18/2000 12:48:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net writes:

> 
>  Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
>  Dianna
> 

That is not a bad description of it.  But I prefer the demonstration in the 
following limerick, written by the wonderful David Goldstein (musician, 
composer, general great guy from Pinewoods Early Music Week many years 
running):

If playing's your joy & delight
But triple time gets you uptight
I'd suggest on the whole a
Discreet hemiola
Will make the rhythm come out right.

Hope that helps.  Or not.
Aithne
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Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:05:28 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: hemiola
To: ECD-AT-
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There is a nice example of hemiola at the end of Orleans Baffled.  

Corners cross 		ONE two three
Other corners cross 		FOUR five six

3 changes of Rights and Lefts, 2 beats per person

ONE two
THREE four
FIVE six

>On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>
>> Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
>
>In this case, instead of playing two measures of triple-time music
>"straight" (i.e. with the primary emphasis on the first beat of each
>measure), playing it as though it were written as three measures of two
>beats each:
>
>	Normal minuet:	|DUM dum dum|Dum dum dum|
>	Hemiola:	|DUM dum|Dum dum|Dum dum|
>
>This would typically occur just before the end of of a section of the
>music.
>
>Eric
>
>> 
>> > P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
>> > cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.
>
>


Check out our WEB site, at   http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/
Read about our trip to the Rockies..... 
See the portfolio from Northwest New Year's Camp.....
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In a message dated 9/18/00 11:48:15 AM EST, diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net 
writes:

<< Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-) >>

It's a middle eastern dessert.

Musically, think West Side Story.....

I want to / be in A / ME RI CA  

Tap a steady 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3 

I want to = 1, 2, 3 (first bar)

be in A = 1, 2, 3 (second bar)

ME = 1,2  / RI = 3,1  / CA = 2,3 (third and fourth bars)

(This must be why they invented musical notation.)

So the first two bars are chugging along in three, and the third and fourth 
bars come to a screeching halt -- condensed into what SOUNDS like one bar.  
It's a way to slow things down by half rhythmically -- and yet keep the same 
steady pulse going.  It's most often used to emphasize a cadence -- 
particularly during the Renaissance.  Though Lenny, being the free spirit 
that he was, used it just to have fun.  Perhaps he got the idea from Ravel 
who used this three-two pattern (and hemiolas) in the 2nd movement of his 
string quartet.

Probably more than you wanted to know.

Suzanne // taking two hemiolae to go, please
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In a message dated 9/18/00 10:01:39 PM EST, bestockp-AT-
oz.net writes:

<< There is a nice example of hemiola at the end of Orleans Baffled. >>

With all due respect, there's no indication of a hemiola in the music.  It 
chugs along in three (3/2 actually) right to the end.  However, we have to 
get to where we need to go in the alotted time -- particularly the three 
changes.  So we move quickly -- perhaps in two -- but the music is going 
steadily in three.  

Suzanne // still munching

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>
><< There is a nice example of hemiola at the end of Orleans Baffled. >>
>
>With all due respect, there's no indication of a hemiola in the music. 

Well, maybe not in the music, but the dancers dance it.  The six steps in
measures 5 and 6 are in two sets of three.  The six steps in measures seven
and eight are in three sets of two.  

Victoria




Check out our WEB site, at   http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/
Read about our trip to the Rockies..... 
See the portfolio from Northwest New Year's Camp.....
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From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: hemiola
To: ECD-AT-
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You're both right, now.  No squabbling!

The example from Lenny is fabulous.  Just never occured to me.  So glad you
mentioned it.

Probably Lenny knew the entire history of the technique.  You don't go to
music school and rise in the profession the way he did without accumulating
such ideas by droves.  But I'll bet he was more concerned at that point
with mimicking the scansion of the text.

What a great example!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


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From: SallenNic-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Hemiolas
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In a message dated 19/9/2000 3:01:24 pm, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

>With all due respect, there's no indication of a hemiola in the music.
> It 
>chugs along in three (3/2 actually) right to the end.
    Not quite sure what indication you  would expect to find? Hemiolas are 
not usually written out in their altered barring form: they are mostly a 
percieved phenomenon,
The works of Baroque composers such as Bach and handel contain many examples. 
The Messiah has literally dozens of them - anyone wishing to see them pointed 
out therein has only to look at Watkins Shaw's later edition of the work 
(pub. Novello), as he was kind enough to shew them by a system of bracketing 
over the top of the music.
    As far as Orleans Baffled is concerned, I feel that the last two bars 
work aurally as three bars of two just as well as, if not better than, two 
bars of three time: I have pointed this out as an example of a Hemiola in 
both dance and tune for years now. Furthermore, I have played these two bars 
as a Hemiola for probably thirty five years.
    Loved the limerick - totally brilliant!!!
                                                    Nicolas B., Lanark, 
Scotland.
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From: Roger Diggle <diggle-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
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>> Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
>
>It's a middle eastern dessert.

It's another name for a half-size viola.
================================================================================
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Subject: Re: Hemiolas
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Nicholas is absolutely correct about Orleans.   Whether it's notated in 3/2
or not, the line goes high pitch, low pitch - high pitch, low pitch -
cadence note.

Always felt like a hemiola to me, and really helps the dancers get home in
time to cast!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


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On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Roger Diggle wrote:

> >> Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
> >
> >It's a middle eastern dessert.
> 
> It's another name for a half-size viola.
> 
The medical condition is spelled "haemiola"...  };-^)


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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Hemiolas
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In a message dated 9/19/00 12:16:31 PM EST, SallenNic-AT-
aol.com writes:

<<  As far as Orleans Baffled is concerned, I feel that the last two bars 
 work aurally as three bars of two just as well as, if not better than, two 
 bars of three time: I have pointed this out as an example of a Hemiola in 
 both dance and tune for years now. Furthermore, I have played these two bars 
 as a Hemiola for probably thirty five years. >>


If you say so.  But so far as the music goes, it's two bars of three -- 
whether you look at the printed page, hum it, or dance to it.  There isn't 
anything rhythmically in the music that turns those two bars into one.  But, 
the dance steps ARE a hemiola -- so as a dancer, you are doing three moves 
over two bars or six total counts. 

Which is what I said in my original reply.  The music is in three, the dance 
steps are in two. 

I'll be listening carefully in the future to see what the band does to 
convince me that they're playing a hemiola.

As to getting around those three changes in those two bars with two steps 
each -- 'tis a consummation devoutly to be wished!   Too often it's a mad 
scramble as the 1st couple races to the starting gate below and everyone 
tries to remember which shoulder to pass by (is it RIGHT with neighbor and 
LEFT with partner....?).

Though not, of course, always.

Suzanne // One / Two / Three
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In a message dated 9/19/00 2:25:34 PM, diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com writes:

<<  Ok, then what's a "hemiola"  >>

Obviously it's the male version of a miola.

JBG
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:17:38 PST
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:17:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nan1Evans-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Portland English Country Ball
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The Portland (Oregon) English Country Ball is being held on the weekend of 
November 3, 4 and 5.  

Musicians will be George Penk (violin), Fred Nussbaum (cello), Julie King 
(piano), and Jim Oakden (winds and other things).  The dances will be led by 
Nan Evans.

There will be a pre-Ball dance Friday night -- a great social time!
The Ball rehearsal is on Saturday afternoon 
The Ball itself will be held in the Grand Ballroom at the Portland Art Museum 
(nearly 9000 square feet of dance floor)
On Sunday, all are invited to a brunch with more dancing, music making, 
visiting, looking at videos and photographs from the night before and general 
relaxing.

More information on registration and the event can be obtained from Paula 
Hamlin at (503)691-1758 or phamlin-AT-
easystreet.com.  An informational website 
(our first web site! and still in the development stage) can be found at  
http://www.rdrop.com/users/schnack/portlandball.html

We will provide hospitality, housing, and rides to and from the airport, too. 
================================================================================
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Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
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--- JBGrun-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 9/19/00 2:25:34 PM, diggle-AT-
bigfoot.com
> writes:
> 
> <<  Ok, then what's a "hemiola"  >>
> 
> Obviously it's the male version of a miola.
> 

Let's keep the calls gender free so nobody gets mixed up.

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Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
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--- Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Roger Diggle wrote:
> 
> > >> Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical
> condition :-)
> > >
> > >It's a middle eastern dessert.
> > 
> > It's another name for a half-size viola.
> > 
> The medical condition is spelled "haemiola"...  };-^)
> 
> 
Dis you say it's in the hay????

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Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:41:19 PST
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carl Andersen <cdw_ecd-AT-
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To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
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"First Fling," the inaugural dance party of Country
Dancers of Westchester's 2000-2001 'Millennium' season
is this Friday, September 22, at Church in the
Highlands on Bryant Ave. in White Plains, NY.

CDW's gifted corps of callers - Fried Herman, Carol
Martinez, Gene Murrow, and Paul Ross - will share the
calling duty for the party, which begins at 8pm.

The Flying Romanos - Robin Russell ("RO"); Marnen
Laibow-Koser ("MA"); and Norma Castle ("NO") -
provides the music.

There'll be tasty refreshments at the break. If you're
attending, bring along some festive edibles to add to
the eating.

Admission is $12.00. CDW members pay $10.00. Annual
membership costs $12.00.

For out-of-towners visiting New York, White Plains is
a 30-minute rail trip on Metro North from Grand
Central Terminal.

CDW's weekly program of Thursday night workshop dances
commences on September 28. Gene Murrow is the leader
for that date and October 5 and 12. Carol Martinez
calls on October 19. The outstanding house band
musicians for those nights are Leah Barkan, George
Davis, Sue Polansky, and Stewart Dean with occasional
guest artists.

The next dance party is Friday, October 27, and
features Jane Austen's descendant in spirit, the
caller Beverly Francis.

For more information, including directions to the
church, call Leah at 914/693-5577.

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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:25:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
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To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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To all suffering from 'Minuet Anxiety.':
There is no such thing as THE minuet step.  A number of varieties were
contemporary with each other (see Jane Cobau), and some were active
earlier while some were popular later.

Trying to decide which step pattern belongs to which piece of music
depends on knowing the source of the music--its date, its geographic
source, its dancing master.  All minuet step-patterns distribute four
changes of weight over 6 beats; thus hemiola steps were frequent but not
universal (Emma Rushton's version has none).  The places for bending and
rising were different.  Please note that a hemiola in music was not always
matched to a hemiola in dance.  Our forebears were more sophisticated than
that!
 

The minuet, the queen of the dances in the 18th century, had a long
history beginning in 1666 or so.  We need to know when White Hall Minuet
was written before we can even propose which step patterns might have been
applied.  Does anyone know when and where this dance first appeared?

Julia Sutton






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:02:49 PST
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:00:53 -0400
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Playford 11th edition, 1701.  

> The minuet, the queen of the dances in the 18th century, had a long
> history beginning in 1666 or so.  We need to know when White Hall Minuet
> was written before we can even propose which step patterns might have been
> applied.  Does anyone know when and where this dance first appeared?


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:56:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:07:08 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000601c0256e$b1250ec0$3ae0490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009181301230.6500-100000-AT-
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Eric
Thanks for the info - I'd probably have to hear it to get the sense of it
but I sort of get the idea :-)
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Arnold" <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)


>
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>
> > Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
>
> In this case, instead of playing two measures of triple-time music
> "straight" (i.e. with the primary emphasis on the first beat of each
> measure), playing it as though it were written as three measures of two
> beats each:
>
> Normal minuet: |DUM dum dum|Dum dum dum|
> Hemiola: |DUM dum|Dum dum|Dum dum|
>
> This would typically occur just before the end of of a section of the
> music.
>
> Eric
>
> >
> > > P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
> > > cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:08:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:07:08 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701c02570$4b166e60$3ae0490c-AT-
pavilion>
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choplifter.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>

Eric
Thanks for the info - I'd probably have to hear it to get the sense of it
but I sort of get the idea :-)
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Arnold" <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)


>
>
> On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>
> > Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-)
>
> In this case, instead of playing two measures of triple-time music
> "straight" (i.e. with the primary emphasis on the first beat of each
> measure), playing it as though it were written as three measures of two
> beats each:
>
> Normal minuet: |DUM dum dum|Dum dum dum|
> Hemiola: |DUM dum|Dum dum|Dum dum|
>
> This would typically occur just before the end of of a section of the
> music.
>
> Eric
>
> >
> > > P.S. (on miuuet rhythm) -- there will usually be hemiolas before the
> > > cadences, too, which you don't often find in waltzes.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:08:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:16:27 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Morning Rout
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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I used the instructions included the in Dance and Danceability CD for The
Morning Rout but am having trouble working out the number of steps / bars
for the phrasing - something seems off but I'm not sure what.  Any
suggestions or additional info?
Thanks,
Dianna
PS I'm out of town for the weekend but will catch up on Monday.

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:08:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:09:01 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000801c02570$4c448e20$3ae0490c-AT-
pavilion>
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References: <b2.acd7f48.26f8517d-AT-
aol.com>

Suzanne
OK that's a little clearer and my motto is "Life's too short, eat dessert
first!"
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: <SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: minuet rhythm (P.S.)


> In a message dated 9/18/00 11:48:15 AM EST, diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
> writes:
>
> << Ok, then what's a "hemiola" - sounds like a medical condition :-) >>
>
> It's a middle eastern dessert.
>
> Musically, think West Side Story.....
>
> I want to / be in A / ME RI CA
>
> Tap a steady 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3 / 1, 2, 3
>
> I want to = 1, 2, 3 (first bar)
>
> be in A = 1, 2, 3 (second bar)
>
> ME = 1,2  / RI = 3,1  / CA = 2,3 (third and fourth bars)
>
> (This must be why they invented musical notation.)
>
> So the first two bars are chugging along in three, and the third and
fourth
> bars come to a screeching halt -- condensed into what SOUNDS like one bar.
> It's a way to slow things down by half rhythmically -- and yet keep the
same
> steady pulse going.  It's most often used to emphasize a cadence --
> particularly during the Renaissance.  Though Lenny, being the free spirit
> that he was, used it just to have fun.  Perhaps he got the idea from Ravel
> who used this three-two pattern (and hemiolas) in the 2nd movement of his
> string quartet.
>
> Probably more than you wanted to know.
>
> Suzanne // taking two hemiolae to go, please

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:55:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:55:39 -0500
From: "MCDONALD JR., BILL (SBC-MSI)" <WM2237-AT-
txmail.sbc.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Morning Rout
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <25A32F3B5D2DD31186ED00508B0911B801EC567B-AT-
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>Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 01:16:27 -0500
>From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
>Subject: Morning Rout
>Message-ID: <000901c02570$4d72ade0$3ae0490c-AT-
pavilion>

>I used the instructions included the in Dance and Danceability CD for The
>Morning Rout but am having trouble working out the number of steps / bars
>for the phrasing - something seems off but I'm not sure what.  Any
>suggestions or additional info?
>Thanks,
>Dianna
>PS I'm out of town for the weekend but will catch up on Monday.

>Dianna L. Shipman
>diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
>PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
>Houston, TX 77019-3908
>Scottish Country Dancing and More
>web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
>phone: 713-522-1212

I just tried the Morning Rout, not two weeks ago with a gathering of ECD
newbies with the same results as reported by Dianna.  It's a very pretty
dance, but it also struck me that we were doing something wrong.

There doesn't seem to be enough time for the men and women to weave during
the first part (all must step lively to complete the circuit in order to get
back in time for a two handed turn), but the latter part of the set (where
the first couple leads down and casts back up to second place, then leading
up past the then top couple and casting back down) there seems to be too
much music.  Using it up makes the last half of set seem slow in comparison
to the first part (the weave).

<set and turn single>

McD
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:03:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:03:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000924154542.15390B-100000-AT-
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To all inquiring about minuet steps:

Rich Galloway tells me the first appearance of White Hall Minuet is in
Playford, 1701.  Therefore it is likely that a hemiola step pattern was
used:

Beat  1    2          3   4    5    6       | 1
Step  Up R Bend R   Up L  R    L    Bend L   Up R etc.

This was quite popular.

The Minuet step ALWAYS BEGINS on the right foot. No one knows why!

Julia Sutton

Please note: my new email address will be jjsutton-AT-
dellnet.com





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:03:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:03:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: White Hall Minuet
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000924154542.15390B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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To all inquiring about minuet steps:

Rich Galloway tells me the first appearance of White Hall Minuet is in
Playford, 1701.  Therefore it is likely that a hemiola step pattern was
used:

Beat  1    2          3   4    5    6       | 1
Step  Up R Bend R   Up L  R    L    Bend L   Up R etc.

This was quite popular.

The Minuet step ALWAYS BEGINS on the right foot. No one knows why!

Julia Sutton

Please note: my new email address will be jjsutton-AT-
dellnet.com





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:04:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:03:07 +0200
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iae.nl>
Subject: Oe Moe Me Noe?
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <LPBBKMBNMCGKNDDELPCMKECGCLAA.antony-AT-
iae.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_s1YU48STtodZrynekj2ZHw)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_s1YU48STtodZrynekj2ZHw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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This expression in Dutch dialect means "Where do I go now?"
It is the title of an English Country Dance by Ćgle Hoekstra.
Ćgle died of cancer last November but not before he had written down all
fifteen ECDs which he had composed in his relatively short dancing and
calling career.

The Dutch Folk Dance Society NVS is pleased to announce the issue of a book
and CD with this title. At the launch last Saturday 10% of the number made
was sold. Three quarters of the money paid for the book and CD go to Dutch
Cancer Research as Ćgle wished.

The publication contains the two dances which reached the final of Dance
Search 1995 in Beckenham UK: "Heads or Tails" is a mixer with an original
element of chance in it and "Star.Star" (pronounced "Star point Star") won
second prize at that competition. "Something Elsche" was published once in
English Dance and Song and has become a popular dance at least in England.
"Hemel Hempstead Roundabout" is known to some people from the CD "Dutch
Crossing".

But there's much more to savour on this CD: listen to the haunting
arrangement of "Scarborough Fair" and enjoy the dance Ćgle made up to it.
Try "Special Star" for sheer originality. "In 7th Heaven" was praised by Bob
Archer for having a perfect progression for 7 couples which he had not quite
achieved in his "Magnificent Seven".

The name of this modest man, who attended Sidmouth nearly every year, but
never taught there, will not be forgotten. This book, subtitled "from
Scarborough Fair via Hemel Hempstead Roundabout to The Seventh Heaven"
deserves your attention and Cancer Research will be helped when you buy it.

Until other arrangements are in place, you can buy copies from the NVSShop
for 40 Dutch Guilders excluding post and packing. Visit the website at
www.nvs-dance.nl and see pictures of the launch on Saturday and get details
of the book.

Happy dancing,

Antony Heywood

--Boundary_(ID_s1YU48STtodZrynekj2ZHw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>This expression in Dutch 
dialect means "Where do I go now?"</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>It is the title of an 
English Country Dance by Ćgle Hoekstra.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>Ćgle died of cancer last 
November but not before he had written down all fifteen ECDs which he had 
composed in his relatively short dancing and calling career.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>The Dutch Folk Dance 
Society NVS is pleased to announce the issue of a book and CD with this title. 
At the launch last Saturday 10% of the number made was sold. Three quarters of 
the money paid for the book and CD go to Dutch Cancer Research as Ćgle 
wished.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>The publication contains 
the two dances which reached the final of Dance Search 1995 in Beckenham UK: 
"Heads or Tails" is a mixer with an original element of chance in it and 
"Star.Star" (pronounced "Star point Star") won second prize at that competition. 
"Something Elsche" was published once in English Dance and Song and has become a 
popular dance at least in England. "Hemel Hempstead Roundabout" is known to some 
people from the CD "Dutch Crossing".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>But there's much more to 
savour on this CD: listen to the haunting arrangement of "Scarborough Fair" and 
enjoy the dance Ćgle made up to it. Try "Special Star" for sheer originality. 
"In 7th Heaven" was praised by Bob Archer for having a perfect progression for 7 
couples which he had not quite achieved in his "Magnificent 
Seven".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>The name of this modest 
man, who attended Sidmouth nearly every year, but never taught there, will not 
be forgotten. This book, subtitled "from Scarborough Fair via Hemel Hempstead 
Roundabout to The Seventh Heaven" deserves your attention and Cancer Research 
will be helped when you buy it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>Until other arrangements 
are in place, you can buy copies from the NVSShop for 40 Dutch Guilders 
excluding post and packing. Visit the website at <A 
href="http://www.nvs-dance.nl">www.nvs-dance.nl</A> and see pictures of the 
launch on Saturday and get details of the book.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>Happy 
dancing,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=270413219-25092000><FONT face=Arial>Antony 
Heywood</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_s1YU48STtodZrynekj2ZHw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:56:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:05:34 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Polka Dots
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <39D04ABE.3EB10A-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots". It is published
under that name in "Barn Dance Hoedown". No source is given.

In Hugh Stewart's database, I found "Polka Dot Polka" written by Colin
Andrews and published in "Devonian Double Circle". Has anyone access to
that publication? Still available? And is the dance for five
individuals?

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 04:33:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:42:54 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Christmas vacation
To: English Country Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <39D08BBE.89156826-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I will be in the Jackson Hole, Wyoming area from Dec 20 to Dec 31st. I
wonder if there is any English or Scottish Country Dancing going on
there during that time period. Frankly-I don't expect a positive answer
to this message BUT!-Surprise me!.

Ben Stein
dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 05:44:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:46:12 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D05444.C4F6320E-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <39D04ABE.3EB10A-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>

Philippe Callens wrote:
> 
> In Hugh Stewart's database, I found "Polka Dot Polka" written by Colin
> Andrews and published in "Devonian Double Circle". Has anyone access to
> that publication? 

Yes

> Still available? 

Almost certainly not 

> And is the dance for five
> individuals?
> 

Yes
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:28:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:31:28 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <001401c027be$13c019c0$646cd626-AT-
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From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
>I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
>I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots".

We do a dance at Morristown (NJ, USA) Folk Dancers called Polka Dot--in fact we
did it last Wednesday.  We consider it a Scottish dance and do it with Scottish
setting, etc.  It would work just as well as an English dance.

It is for five people, four around in a square and the fifth person in the
middle.  It starts with the center person facing up and reeling (heying) with
the two people on the vertical axis.  The center person reels with the other two
on the horizontal axis.  The center person faces up sets and changes places with
the top person.  This process is repeated around the square leaving the last
person in the center ready to start again.

There are some variations of this dance which have made into other dances.  I
could try to find this info if anyone is interested.






================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:31:28 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
>I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
>I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots".

We do a dance at Morristown (NJ, USA) Folk Dancers called Polka Dot--in fact we
did it last Wednesday.  We consider it a Scottish dance and do it with Scottish
setting, etc.  It would work just as well as an English dance.

It is for five people, four around in a square and the fifth person in the
middle.  It starts with the center person facing up and reeling (heying) with
the two people on the vertical axis.  The center person reels with the other two
on the horizontal axis.  The center person faces up sets and changes places with
the top person.  This process is repeated around the square leaving the last
person in the center ready to start again.

There are some variations of this dance which have made into other dances.  I
could try to find this info if anyone is interested.






================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:19:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000926131632.27233C-100000-AT-
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Dear Paul Stamler (and everyone else):

You are quite right, with regard to the resemblance between a football
scrimmage and contradancing (that is, given your careful specifics)!
Nevertheless, as a poor weak woman, I have never encountered anything
quite so close to a scrimmage as what happens in New England contras done
in New England!  That is, no room, no time, elbows needed!

This is one person's judgment, after all!

Julia Sutton





================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:27:48 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20000926152553.01832200-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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Dear Julia Sutton,

With all due respect, I don't believe _anyone_ on this list thinks of you
as a poor weak woman.

Affectionately yours,
Sharon Green

At 01:19 PM 9/26/00 -0400, Julia Sutton wrote:
>Dear Paul Stamler (and everyone else):
>
>You are quite right, with regard to the resemblance between a football
>scrimmage and contradancing (that is, given your careful specifics)!
>Nevertheless, as a poor weak woman, I have never encountered anything
>quite so close to a scrimmage as what happens in New England contras done
>in New England!  That is, no room, no time, elbows needed!
>
>This is one person's judgment, after all!
>
>Julia Sutton
>
>
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:00:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:02:29 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D100D5.C24B8D24-AT-
erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <009F0B0F.DC089846.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

The copy I have of this says it is from "Ring O' Bells," which,
unfortunately, I don't have a copy of.  I learned the dance from
Mary Devlin, and I'm pretty sure I got this sheet from her, but I
think Liz Donaldson got me the music (Green Mountain Petronella,
Tip Top Polka, and Nip the Bunny [really!]).

It's a great little dance to teach heys for three.

Mary Kay Friday
Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives)


> Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be> wrote:

>
> I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
> I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots". It is published
> under that name in "Barn Dance Hoedown". No source is given.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:05:25 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000926200507.26870.qmail-AT-
web3302.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com> wrote:
> Dear Paul Stamler (and everyone else):
> 
> You are quite right, with regard to the resemblance between a
> football scrimmage and contradancing (that is, given your 
> careful specifics)! Nevertheless, as a poor weak woman, I have

> never encountered anything quite so close to a scrimmage as 
> what happens in New England contras done in New England!  That

> is, no room, no time, elbows needed!
> 
> This is one person's judgment, after all!
> 
> Julia Sutton
> 

The scrimmage feeling has evolved since my first experience with
Contras at Pinewoods in 1969 with Ted Sanella calling. There was
etiquette on the dance floor and some sense of body control, a
sense of place on the dance floor and an awareness of the people
around you. Of course that Pinewoods experience back then was
probably different from a Town Hall dance because the dancers at
Pinewoods were long-time English dancers doing contras, and most
did not do Contras at home. In 1970, Dudley Laufman was the
Contra caller and things were somewhat different. He tried to
give more of a feeling of a typical Town Hall dance. One of the
things that I experienced a few years later when going to
Dudley's Town Hall dances and that I disagree with him on, is
that I believe the caller has some responsibility to teach and
correct problems that he sees on the floor. Ted did it all the
time. He would come down on the floor and teach how to do
something if there seemed to be confusion. Dudley says he is
hired to call a public dance and that people should go and take
lessons (which Dudley teaches in his area) if they want to learn
how to do it. The problem is that for most places I've Contra
danced, there are no separate lessons available for new dancers,
except *maybe* the first half hour of the evening, which many
beginners miss. Most people learn "on the fly" during a dance
evening, and unless they are corrected by the caller, many bad
habits are learned. Contra callers seem to be afraid that they
will offend somebody by correcting behavior and teaching them
not to hurt those around them. I've even heard of callers being
chastised by dance promoters for trying to correct dangerous
behavior that they have observed. That, to me, is irresponsible
on the part of the promoter.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:25:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:34:04 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D1083C.11697590-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
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web3302.mail.yahoo.com>

I don't know just when Contra dancing changed (for the worse to my
opinion) but I don't think that the elegance and grace of the older
Contra dances had anything to do with people having danced English
Country Dance. I was exposed to Contra Dancing with Margo Mayo, Ralph
Page and at "country dances" in New England long before I ever came to
English Country Dancing and it was the epitome of (to use the name of an
old Contra Dance) "Elegance and Simplicity". I can remember Margot
counting aloud when we did a ladies chain (without twirls of course). I
finally gave up contra dancing when I had my glasses knocked of twice in
an evening by flying elbows. I went to a Contra dance for the first time
in years, last Friday, and my impressions were only reinforced. Twirls
were the order of the day, elbows flew, about a third of the dancers got
lost when a "square through" was called-even after it had been
explained, down the middle and back was a disaster and there was rarely
an eight bar figure danced in eight bars. Oh well! I guess I will stick
with the glory and precission of English Country Dancing or the
discipline of Scottish Country Dancing. If that makes my an "old
fuddy-duddy" so be it!

Ben Stein
dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:39:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:39:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [fwd from Peter Barnes] Suggestions for Barnes vol 2?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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[Peter is having problems posting to the list; he asked me to forward this
on his behalf.]

   Dear folks;

        Lately as I've travelled around the country I've noticed many
   musicians using not only English Country Dance Tunes (and thank you
   for that!) but also loose-leaf binders of additional tunes for English
   dances that are missing from the collection. As the original work was
   produced to alleviate just this kind of situation, I want to make an
   effort to include as many new pieces as possible for the musician
   playing for English Country dancing.
        There are two choices - expand the original book (again!), or
   produce a whole new book. The arguments against expansion are many -
   it's just as much work, the book is quite large as it is, but worst of
   all, I'd get accused (as I did with the last revision!) of updating
   the work solely for the purpose of getting previous buyers to discard
   their copies to buy the newest and latest one. A new volume would
   allow all of us to retain our original books and absolve me from the
   charge of imitating Microsoft's software practices (I am quite worried
   that the Justice Department is going to start hounding me). I would of
   course include an index that covers both books.
        I need your help in selecting tunes for the new book. I want to
   include pieces that are (or have the potential of being) in broad
   usage and will hopefully stand the test of time. Please email me with
   tune/dance suggestions at canispub-AT-
iname.com (it will help if you put
   "Suggestion for Volume 2" in your subject line). Any information you
   might have about the tune's source, composer, choreographer, etc.
   would also be a great help.
        I'll post them at www.gis.net/~iolair/Volume2.html along with the
   number of times people have suggested it (sort of a popularity
   contest). I've included a few I've run across as starters - ultimately
   I'd like to have three to four hundred titles in the book.

        Thank you all,

   Peter Barnes



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:31:27 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:39:56 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Barnes Volume 2
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000926163956.007cd140-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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How do I get this to Peter Barnes?

Here's my response to Peter's post:

I'd prefer seeing a second volume rather than a bulkier third edition that
required that I throw out my almost-new second edition.  I'm not ready to
upgrade yet, but I'd buy a new book with tunes I didn't already have in
Barnes second Eidition Vol.1   

Here's a list of the music I shlep around to dances and use often. I'm
leaving out the stuff I hardly ever call, and focus on the most popular).

 Two stars means the dance is called frequently in Seattle by most of the
six of us callers. One star means its called by me or by one of the
callers, but its not in everyone's repertory.  No stars-- its not done very
often, but its done often enough that I need 3-4 copies of the music for
the band for when I do use it.  

Aberdeen (The De'il's Dead)
Another Nancy's Fancy (Pat Shaw)
**Leona Tuttle (The Waltz Book) We dance Bonnie Cookoo to it. 
**Roodman's Romp (for the dance Cadger's Caper by Gary Roodman) tune by Myers
	and Thompson
Lady Catherine Ogle (for Gary's "A Celt's New Dance)
December Waltz (dance by Fried, tune by John Austin)  
**Miss Gordon of Gight (for Easter Morn) (tune John Cooper, dance Erna Lynn
	Bogue)
**Elizabeth-- Colin Hume
Enrichez-Vous (tune by Edith Farrar)
**Jaque Latin
**The Introduction  dance by Fried, tune Carolan's Cottage
Jovial Beggars  (From Maggot Pie)
*Laurelhurst (Fried)
The Old Bachelor.  I like both versions, call it occasionally but I don't
think 	anyone else in Seattle does.
**The Enchanted Place  (tune, Planxty HEwlett)
**Sarah (Tune: Agatha by  Widemann)
**Trip to Green (tune: Petticoat Wag)
*Wooing Mairi (tune Eric Scott) 



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:36:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:36:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Barnes Volume 2
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JUMVXCFNJ68YHIAF-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Victoria asked:

   How do I get this to Peter Barnes?

Peter said (in his phone message, which I heard after a week away from email)
that he was getting ECD list postings, he just wasn't able to post to the list
for some reason.  So this should work, although there's probably also a way
to reach him at the web address given in the post.

Then remarked:

  I'd prefer seeing a second volume rather than a bulkier third edition that
  required that I throw out my almost-new second edition.  I'm not ready to
  upgrade yet, but I'd buy a new book with tunes I didn't already have in
  Barnes second Eidition Vol.1   

I think that's the plan.

  **The Enchanted Place  (tune, Planxty HEwlett)

Hmmm.  That tune is used for "The Enchanted Place", "The Log Cabin", and
Orly Krassner's "Evergreen" (which is very nice, incidentally).  Any other
tunes with that many dances written to them?

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:03:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Berger <jberger-AT-
monitor.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [fwd from Peter Barnes] Suggestions for Barnes vol 2?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0009261646280.19800-100000-AT-
pairoducks.monitor.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

>         There are two choices - expand the original book (again!), or
>    produce a whole new book. The arguments against expansion are many -
>    it's just as much work, the book is quite large as it is...

I'm not entirely sure I understand why that last one is an argument against
enlarging the current book.  If there's a bulkier new edition, I'll have to
carry a bulkier new edition to dances (not, frankly, a huge burden); if
there's a skinny supplementary edition, I'll have to carry both that and
the current edition to dances, and I don't quite get why that's less of a
burden.  My own preference would be to spend a few extra bucks and preserve
the very nice feature that I can just look up a tune alphabetically in a
single book, rather than having to mess around with an index.  I do, of
course, sympathize with those who prefer to save money; I'm just stating my
personal view.

For what it's worth, law books also need to updated fairly frequently, as
the laws change.  The way most of them handle this is by being distributed
in loose-leaf form.  The publisher then sells upgrades every so often,
which come with instructions on where the pages should be inserted into the
book, and the update pages are cleverly set up to fit right in with the
surrounding context, by repeating the stuff before and after the inserted
text up to the point where the pages break.  (Sorry if that's less than
clear but maybe it gets the idea across.)  This approach might actually
work here: if the book came unbound with standard 3-hole punches, it would
be really easy to slip it into an Acco binder or something, which most
people are quite capable of going to their local office supply store and
buying.  As far as that goes, if Peter were to publish his upgrade as
insertion pages (as I attempted to describe above), it wouldn't be all that
tough to remove the spiral binding of the current edition, insert the
pages, 3-hole punch the resulting pile, and stick it in a binder.  I'd be
willing to do that, and I'd prefer it to having two different books; I
don't know how many people would agree with me, though.

-------------------------------
Jon Berger
Personal: jberger-AT-
monitor.net    
Business: jon-AT-
perforce.com
http://www.monitor.net/~jberger

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:21:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Barnes Volume 2
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000927002113.6858.qmail-AT-
web1609.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:

> **Leona Tuttle (The Waltz Book) We dance Bonnie Cookoo to it. 

That is one of my very favorite Larry Unger waltzes - it's on his CD
"Waltztime". I had no idea anyone did English dancing to it, and I'd
bet Larry would be surprised to find that out.  I'd love to do Bonnie
Cuckoo to it.

=====
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Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:23:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: [fwd from Peter Barnes] Suggestions for Barnes vol 2?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JUMX985T5U8YHIAF-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Jon suggested:

[snippage, but I'll paraphrase his suggestion as issuing new material in a 
Barnes book as inserts for old material.]

I'm familiar with this approach from software manuals, though not from John's
experience with law books.  From my own experience, this approach tends to 
fail with software manuals unless there is somebody whose actual job it is 
to stick in the updated pages  - if you just leave the manuals to the
programmers, it will never happen.

As a caller, I wouldn't like this approach, because it would create in effect
an infinite number of variant editions of Barnes.  Instead of being able to ask
"do you have Barnes95?" and know I can call any of those 400-odd dances without
having to bring music, I'd have to go back to checking, dance by dance, or more
likely just bringing multiple copies of everything I plan to call.

I'd prefer supplements. Each supplement should have a cumulative table of
contents, though, so you look the tune up alphabetically in the most recent
volume you have, and that tells you which volume to look in.

(Jon could still debind the supplements, three-hole punch the lot, and try
to interpolate them into the pages of volume 1 in a notebook, although it's 
likely that alphabetization would be a little relaxed.)

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:19:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:19:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [fwd from Peter Barnes] Suggestions for Barnes vol 2?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, canispub-AT-
iname.com
Message-ID: <d0.b8d9531.2702b324-AT-
aol.com>
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Hi Peter and ECD Listers, 

Here's my list of tunes I'd like to see in the next edition/supplement:

Miss Gordon of Gight (for Easter Morn by Erna-Lynne Bogue)
Jaque Latin
Elizabeth (Colin Hume)
The Homecoming (tune: Jonathan Jensen, for dance by Gary Roodman)
Highland Lilt
Epping Hunt
Leather Lake House
Drops of Brandy
The Butterfly
Ore Boggy
Round About our Coal Fire
In the Bleak Midwinter
Cockle Shells
Winnie-the-Pooh's Cakewalk (tune is Trip to Uxbridge by Colin Hume)
Cynthia's Waltz (Jonathan Jensen)
Graies Inne Maske
Money in Both Pockets
Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do
3/4 version of Jenny Come Tie My Cravat (for Colin Hume's version of the 
dance)
Midwinter Song (Fried Herman's dance, Gustav Holst's tune)
Yellow Stockings
Planxty Hewlett

Another useful item would be transpositions of some of the tunes in awkward 
keys into easier keys (at least for fiddle), as done in the 2nd edition with 
Jacob Hall's Jig. For example: Auretti's Dutch Skipper into G, Dover Pier 
into A, Dublin Bay into A minor, Hole in the Wall into G, St. Margarets' Hill 
into A minor, and Upon a Summer's Day into G minor.  

Cheers!

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:58:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:07:37 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Barnes Volume 2
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20000926230249.0185fa60-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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At 04:36 PM 9/26/00 -0700, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>Hmmm.  That tune is used for "The Enchanted Place", "The Log Cabin", and
>Orly Krassner's "Evergreen" (which is very nice, incidentally).  Any other
>tunes with that many dances written to them?

Kettle Drum:
Sue Dupre's A New Kettledrum
Gary Roodman's Laisteridge Lane
Brooke Friendly & Chris Sackett's Puck's Deceit
& my dance Gene's Tambourine

All were written about the same time--none of us knew the others were
working on the tune.
Synchronously,
Sharon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:07:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:11:13 -0700
From: Marian Phillips <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [fwd from Peter Barnes] Suggestions for Barnes vol 2?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, canispub-AT-
iname.com
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How about including "Winter Solstice"?  That way it would be easily
available in the U.S. in both the recorded version and sheet music.

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:24:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:24:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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web3304.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:
> I don't know just when Contra dancing changed (for the worse
> to my opinion) but I don't think that the elegance and grace
of 
> the older Contra dances had anything to do with people having 
> danced English Country Dance. 

I doubt it, too. I was only meaning that it may have already
started changing to a scimmage in town hall dances, but that
*my* first exposure was among people who were very experienced
in ECD and hadn't yet been corrupted(?). Additionally, the
majority of people who went to Pinewoods back then were there
every year, some for both dance weeks, and had been taking
classes for years from May Gadd, Lilly Roberts Conant (who was
no longer able to teach in 1969), Genny Shimer and others. The
level of dancing was stunning to me as someone who had never
been to any CDSS national event before. I particularly remember
that in longsword class that year I was the only person in my
set who had never danced longsword before. I learned it very
quickly, and well, because everyone else was helping me to learn
rather than struggling with it themselves.

> ...finally gave up contra dancing when I had my glasses
knocked
> of twice in an evening by flying elbows.

Reminds me of a Participants Party at Northwest Folklife one
year. I was dancing with one of my best friends and some guy hit
her in the nose with his elbow. It is the *only* time in 35
years that I ever have dropped out of a dance from the middle of
a longways set, but when your partner has a nose-bleed... She
doesn't dance at all now because she has back problems that are
worsened by people jerking her around, and somebody always does.

> I went to a Contra dance for the first time in years, last 
> Friday, and my impressions were only reinforced. Twirls were 
> the order of the day, elbows flew, about a third of the 
> dancers got lost when a "square through" was called-even after

> it had been explained, down the middle and back was a disaster

> and there was rarely an eight bar figure danced in eight bars.

> Oh well! I guess I will stick with the glory and precission of

> English Country Dancing or the discipline of Scottish Country 
> Dancing. If that makes my an "old fuddy-duddy" so be it!
> 
> Ben Stein
> dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net
> 

I make a point of *never* twirling a woman whose dancing ability
I don't know. I frequently almost get my arm wrenched off by
someone who thinks that twirling is the only way to do it. I
also do not twirl if the next figure is one that is more easily
lead into by a courtesy turn. I also get very surprised looks
when I don't twirl women who *expect* to be twirled. On the
other hand, there are some people that I *really* enjoy
twirling, when it fits the dance. When I was in Hartford, I used
to like twirling Val Suchower (Medve) with a special twist. I
would raise my arm  as she twirled and send her behind me like
in a Southern Mountain ladies chain. She had so much control of
her spin that as she spun around behind me, I could turn to my
other side and catch her hand as she came around. I've never
dared try this with any other partner. This also was done
exactly in time with the music and finished in time for the next
figure.

Very few Contra callers seem to teach the relationship between
the musical phrases and the parts of the dance anymore.
Sometimes I feel like the band might as well not even be there.
I remember one time in Hartford the set I was in got a full 8
bars behind the music. The dance had a
down-the-center-and-back-and-cast-off followed by a
hey-for-three then a partner swing. The particular caller
involved never told people *how*far* to go down the center and
he had a habit of getting the dance started then turning his
back as he pulled out the card for the next dance and started
preparing for it. People commonly went down the center for about
12 steps and, in this case, by the time they finished the hey
they were about 10 behind. After the swing they were 16 steps
behind. I don't remember where I was in the set when this
happened, but I somehow managed to force the entire set to get
back on the music. I have the ability to lead a foursome astray
if I start to do the wrong thing because I do it with such a
strong lead that the other dancers assume I must be right. When
I started down the middle on the correct beat and all the other
people were doing whatever(?), I did it with such insistence,
that the whole set gave up trying to stop me and followed my
lead. I also was calling the dance while I did it and they all
caught up within one turn of the dance.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:27:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:27:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Christmas vacation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:
> I will be in the Jackson Hole, Wyoming area from Dec 20 to Dec
> 31st. I wonder if there is any English or Scottish Country 
> Dancing going on there during that time period. Frankly-I
don't 
> expect a positive answer to this message BUT!-Surprise me!.
> 
> Ben Stein
> dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net
> 
If there isn't, there should be.

Andy

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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 03:44:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:44:10 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D1CF7A.6EB3FE53-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <39D04ABE.3EB10A-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>

Philippe Callens wrote:
> 
> In Hugh Stewart's database, I found "Polka Dot Polka" written by Colin
> Andrews and published in "Devonian Double Circle". Has anyone access to
> that publication? 

The Devonian Double Circle, a 20 page A5 booklet of 25 dances by
Colin Andrews, I have written the date 1984 on it which is probably
when I bought it, not when it was published.

Polka Dot Polka, 5 people, one in the middle, the others round
the outside.  Music: 5x32 bar lively polka or rant.

Dance is reel on the head line, reel on the side line,  middle step
to #1 (North), and change, #1 face west: step and change; etc. (2 bars
stepping, 2 bars to change.)


See also ECD archives: search for "RE: Polka Dot Instructions Wanted"
posted by Loretta Holz on 31st October 1998 which also describes
some very similar dances
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:31:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:41:09 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Christmas vacation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D1EAE5.88B94952-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
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web3304.mail.yahoo.com>



Andrew Peterson wrote:

> --- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:
> > I will be in the Jackson Hole, Wyoming area from Dec 20 to Dec
> > 31st. I wonder if there is any English or Scottish Country
> > Dancing going on there during that time period. Frankly-I
> don't
> > expect a positive answer to this message BUT!-Surprise me!.
> >
> > Ben Stein
> > dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net
> >
> If there isn't, there should be.
>
> Andy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/

Thanks for the thought. I agree wholeheartedly!

Ben


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:35:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:45:41 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D1EBF5.B8442E86-AT-
globalnetisp.net>
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Andrew Peterson wrote:

> --- Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net> wrote:
> > I don't know just when Contra dancing changed (for the worse
> > to my opinion) but I don't think that the elegance and grace
> of
> > the older Contra dances had anything to do with people having
> > danced English Country Dance.
>
> I doubt it, too. I was only meaning that it may have already
> started changing to a scimmage in town hall dances, but that
> *my* first exposure was among people who were very experienced
> in ECD and hadn't yet been corrupted(?). Additionally, the
> majority of people who went to Pinewoods back then were there
> every year, some for both dance weeks, and had been taking
> classes for years from May Gadd, Lilly Roberts Conant (who was
> no longer able to teach in 1969), Genny Shimer and others. The
> level of dancing was stunning to me as someone who had never
> been to any CDSS national event before. I particularly remember
> that in longsword class that year I was the only person in my
> set who had never danced longsword before. I learned it very
> quickly, and well, because everyone else was helping me to learn
> rather than struggling with it themselves.
>
> > ...finally gave up contra dancing when I had my glasses
> knocked
> > of twice in an evening by flying elbows.
>
> Reminds me of a Participants Party at Northwest Folklife one
> year. I was dancing with one of my best friends and some guy hit
> her in the nose with his elbow. It is the *only* time in 35
> years that I ever have dropped out of a dance from the middle of
> a longways set, but when your partner has a nose-bleed... She
> doesn't dance at all now because she has back problems that are
> worsened by people jerking her around, and somebody always does.
>
> > I went to a Contra dance for the first time in years, last
> > Friday, and my impressions were only reinforced. Twirls were
> > the order of the day, elbows flew, about a third of the
> > dancers got lost when a "square through" was called-even after
>
> > it had been explained, down the middle and back was a disaster
>
> > and there was rarely an eight bar figure danced in eight bars.
>
> > Oh well! I guess I will stick with the glory and precission of
>
> > English Country Dancing or the discipline of Scottish Country
> > Dancing. If that makes my an "old fuddy-duddy" so be it!
> >
> > Ben Stein
> > dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net
> >
>
> I make a point of *never* twirling a woman whose dancing ability
> I don't know. I frequently almost get my arm wrenched off by
> someone who thinks that twirling is the only way to do it. I
> also do not twirl if the next figure is one that is more easily
> lead into by a courtesy turn. I also get very surprised looks
> when I don't twirl women who *expect* to be twirled. On the
> other hand, there are some people that I *really* enjoy
> twirling, when it fits the dance. When I was in Hartford, I used
> to like twirling Val Suchower (Medve) with a special twist. I
> would raise my arm  as she twirled and send her behind me like
> in a Southern Mountain ladies chain. She had so much control of
> her spin that as she spun around behind me, I could turn to my
> other side and catch her hand as she came around. I've never
> dared try this with any other partner. This also was done
> exactly in time with the music and finished in time for the next
> figure.
>
> Very few Contra callers seem to teach the relationship between
> the musical phrases and the parts of the dance anymore.
> Sometimes I feel like the band might as well not even be there.
> I remember one time in Hartford the set I was in got a full 8
> bars behind the music. The dance had a
> down-the-center-and-back-and-cast-off followed by a
> hey-for-three then a partner swing. The particular caller
> involved never told people *how*far* to go down the center and
> he had a habit of getting the dance started then turning his
> back as he pulled out the card for the next dance and started
> preparing for it. People commonly went down the center for about
> 12 steps and, in this case, by the time they finished the hey
> they were about 10 behind. After the swing they were 16 steps
> behind. I don't remember where I was in the set when this
> happened, but I somehow managed to force the entire set to get
> back on the music. I have the ability to lead a foursome astray
> if I start to do the wrong thing because I do it with such a
> strong lead that the other dancers assume I must be right. When
> I started down the middle on the correct beat and all the other
> people were doing whatever(?), I did it with such insistence,
> that the whole set gave up trying to stop me and followed my
> lead. I also was calling the dance while I did it and they all
> caught up within one turn of the dance.
>
> Andy in Portland
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com/

Thank you Andy. When it comes to the Medves, both Val and Tom dance so
well they don't need rules-the music tells them what to do! We are lucky
to have them here in our area.

Ben Stein
dancers-AT-
globalnetisp.net


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:28:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:27:41 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D203DD.44B94BF5-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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web3302.mail.yahoo.com> <39D1083C.11697590-AT-
globalnetisp.net>

Benjamin Stein wrote (in part):

> I don't know just when Contra dancing changed (for the worse to my
> opinion) but I don't think that the elegance and grace of the older
> Contra dances had anything to do with people having danced English
> Country Dance. I was exposed to Contra Dancing with Margo Mayo, Ralph
> Page and at "country dances" in New England long before I ever came to
> English Country Dancing and it was the epitome of (to use the name of an
> old Contra Dance) "Elegance and Simplicity".

    I'm with Ben on that.  I was in Margot Mayo's American dance group and
also danced with Ralph Page.  Contra dance was just as vigorous then as now
but in control and dancers were much more aware of their own and others'
space.  I don't know when that changed. When I introduced my wife to contra
dance near here, she was irritated by the roughness and lack of
consideration.  After a few more tries, we stopped going there.

Albert Blank
Pelham, NY


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:55:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:54:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dancing as combat
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <LAW2-F100o3rlYFvOdy00003558-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wait a minute... You mean we're *not* supposed to treat contras or EC 
dancing as the equivalent of unarmed combat??

This would imply that we're actually *supposed* to pay attention to others 
on the dance floor, and to the caller, my gracious even to the music!

Why weren't we told this before?

Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

Steve Corrsin [advocating a return to "New York Slam Waltzing," in which the 
last couple left standing wins the door prize... Couple, hell, the last 
individual!]
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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:09:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:10:30 -0400
From: "Susan B. Booker" <susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Levi Jackson Dance Weekend, Sept.29-Oct.1
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002f01c02895$14fae900$af1ffcd1-AT-
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The much-storied and annually anticipated Levi Jackson Dance Weekend is once
more upon us. It all happens at the rustic Levi Jackson State Park group
clubhouse, off of I-75 just south of London, Ky, and is sponsored by the
Berea (Ky) Folk Circle Association. It includes live music for all dance
activities, which are held (on a good wooden floor) beginning at 8:00 p.m.
this Friday, and continue from 9:30-11:30 on Saturday, followed by
folksinging until the 12:30 lunch, then dancing again at 2:30, dinner at
6:30, and a final Saturday evening dance (not a ball, but a bit dressy) at
8:00.

The weekend concludes with breakfast the next morning - but you may be too
late for meals, as registration for meals and lodging (in very Spartan
cabins near the clubhouse) concludes today.  However, London has a number of
nearby and comfortable motels and restaurants, and tent camping is also
available near the clubhouse.

The park itself is hilly, wooded, and includes part of Daniel Boone's
Wilderness Road, plus an old pioneer water mill and a collection of  log
buildings. Fall color is beginning in the Cumberlands; the weather is now
pleasantly cool and clear, and short hiking possibilities abound. If it
stays cool, the clubhouse fireplace will probably be put to use, so
marshmallows might be a good to bring along for late-night gatherings.

This weekend is planned for adults, and dance calling and food preparation
are a cooperative effort. Drop-ins are asked to arrange for their own meals
and to  pay per session -$6.00 each Saturday daytime session; $10.00 for
evenings.

And yes, the Levi Jackson Rag, inspired by this wonderful weekend,  will be
danced both nights. With ghost posts, as the originals burned a few years
ago....but are still there, in spirit!

Hoping to see many of you there,
Susan Booker



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:21:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:18:02 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330103b5f7bff9181d-AT-
[216.238.226.24]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 10:54 AM -0400 9/27/00, Stephen D. Corrsin wrote:
>Why weren't we told this before?
>
>Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
>
>Steve Corrsin [advocating a return to "New York Slam Waltzing," in 
>which the last couple left standing wins the door prize... Couple, 
>hell, the last individual!]

Steve, Steve Steve!  Put down the sword and no body will get hurt!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:25:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:24:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Punxeguda-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <69.af83145.27036b43-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mary Beth pleads:

> 
>  Steve, Steve Steve!  Put down the sword and no body will get hurt!
>  
It is hopeless, Mary Beth.  Steve is dangerous, with or without sword.  One 
of the reasons why we miss him here in NY.  The other reason is our bad aim.

Aithne
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:08:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000927160752.16404.qmail-AT-
web1605.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> Wait a minute... You mean we're *not* supposed to treat contras or
> EC dancing as the equivalent of unarmed combat??


"Unarmed combat," Steve?
Where do you thing sword dancing really got it's start?
And we thought you were a historian!

B.

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:43:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:16:24 +0100
From: francis2 <francis2-AT-
breathemail.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000a01c028a2$679e1440$8989183e-AT-
oemcomputer>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <39D04ABE.3EB10A-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philippe Callens" <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
To: "ECD discussion list" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:05 AM
Subject: Polka Dots


> I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
> I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots". It is published
> under that name in "Barn Dance Hoedown". No source is given.
> 
> In Hugh Stewart's database, I found "Polka Dot Polka" written by Colin
> Andrews and published in "Devonian Double Circle". Has anyone access to
> that publication? Still available? And is the dance for five
> individuals?
> 
> Philippe Callens
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:07:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000927190653.14415.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> Steve Corrsin [advocating a return to "New York Slam
> Waltzing," in which the last couple left standing wins the 
> door prize... Couple, hell, the last individual!]
> 

Is this related to the NEFFA phenomenon that one friend referred
to as "Kamakaze Zwiefache".

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:09:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:09:45 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000c01c028b6$7f6b6f00$4f981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
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On Tuesday night the campers put together the evening dance program.  Every
year, for as long as Howard and I have been attending (since 1987), there
were several contra dances on the program.  Many campers say that those are
the best contra dance experiences of the year -- dancing contras with
English dancers who know how to phrase a figure and who dance vigorously
while still under control.

This past August I had anticipated that there would be several contras on
Tuesday night, thinking that this was our chance to dance contras the way we
like them.  But there were no contras at all.  Some of us wondered why.
Some thought that contras had lost their appeal to English dancers.  Some
others figured it was just coincidence that none of the volunteer callers
thought to call a contra.  Anyone have any other ideas?

When folks (including myself) complain about the current state of contra
dancing, I wonder why an English group, or even a Scottish group, that wants
to do contras just doesn't arrange an evening of contras to suit themselves.

Mumbling to myself,

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:23:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:23:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000927192308.8075.qmail-AT-
web1609.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:

> When folks (including myself) complain about the current state of
> contra
> dancing, I wonder why an English group, or even a Scottish group,
> that wants
> to do contras just doesn't arrange an evening of contras to suit
> themselves.


While I believe that the skills learned in English dancing can
improve people's contra dance abilities, it doesn't follow that an
English dancer is necessarily a good contra dancer.  Many of the
worst dancers at my local English dance are also among the worst
contra dancers.

=====
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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:43:55 PST
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 9/27/00 3:11:15 PM, ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net writes:

<< Many campers say that those are

the best contra dance experiences of the year -- dancing contras with

English dancers who know how to phrase a figure and who dance vigorously

while still under control. >>

I'm with you, Pat; I posted something to that effect here several months ago 
& got a vigorous hazing from someone, so I'm glad to have my perceptions 
reinforced.

And sorry to have missed English Week--due to ligament injury--with or 
without contras.

Judy G.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:38:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:38:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009271704270.3623-100000-AT-
gorf.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

[snip]

> This past August I had anticipated that there would be several contras on
> Tuesday night, thinking that this was our chance to dance contras the way we
> like them.  But there were no contras at all.  Some of us wondered why.
> Some thought that contras had lost their appeal to English dancers.  Some
> others figured it was just coincidence that none of the volunteer callers
> thought to call a contra.  Anyone have any other ideas?

Well, we did have Gene's music class for callers of ECD; the class members
did quite a bit of the calling that night.  Perhaps that influenced the
choices.

While I generally enjoy campers' nights, I tend to feel a bit of a
let-down when the callers choose to do contras.  I enjoy contras quite
frequently at home, where they serve quite well as the get-out-of-
the-house-and-get-some-exercise-and-socialize-at-the-same-time motivator,
but at Pinewoods, where I am getting lots of exercise and socializing
every day, the motivation is different.  At dance weeks or weekends where
contras & ECD are combined, while generally I enjoy the way English
dancers dance contras, if I decide to cut out some of the dancing, I'll
cut out the contras first.  That's usually because they tend to have a
high energy-consumption to interest ratio, and if I'm leaving things out,
it's either because I don't have the energy to do all of the dances at a
level that is satisfying or because I have found other things to do that
are, at the time, more interesting (or both).  Or it may be that my feet
or knees are beginning to hurt, and I know that the frequent balancing in
contras tends to aggrivate that (because when I do contras, I like to do
it vigorously; it's pretty dull in energy- & joint-conservation mode).

Besides, for those who want to do both, there's English-American week!

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:56:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:54:47 -0400
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b5f81ca6f86a-AT-
[63.211.187.213]>
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>Steve Corrsin [advocating a return to "New York Slam Waltzing,"

"Boston Bumper-Cars", anyone?  (I've only seen this in contra halls, where
the dancing couples seem particularly oblivious... or possibly have
*really* good aim...)

Cheers - Linda


__________________________________________________
"Oh, yes.  It's vital to remember who you really are.
It's very important.  It isn't a good idea to rely on other
people or things to do it for you, you see.  They always
get it wrong."        (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery")
__________________________________________________


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:22:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:21:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Dear Ben,

Yes, ECD training had nothing to do with civilized contras.  The recent 
change of style is unfortunate and ignorant.  The twirls are an
abomination, especially for women with bad shoulders or wrists--anyway,
I'd certainly welcome a return to the old style.  To bring that about one
would have to reduce the speed, eliminate the ornaments, and reduce the
number of dancers allowed in the room!

Julia Sutton





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:30:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:30:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JUO7TG0JCO8ZDVOY-AT-
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ECDers --

The scope of this list is pretty broad, since I recognize the common roots of
ECD, Scottish, Irish sets, contra, quadrilles, to some extent morris, etc.  In
general, though, I'd prefer that we only discuss these other dance forms in 
light of their relationship to ECD.

(A sterling example of that kind of discussion is Gene Murrow's post a while
back about how the gypsy figure made it from ECD into modern contradancing.)

In other words, now that we've had the annual "kvetching about modern
contradance" discussion, could we please drop it for a while, or at least 
relate it more specifically to either historical or modern ECD?

(I try to keep a light hand on these things, and will generally say nothing
about one or two off-topic posts, especially if they're funny.  A whole thread
on the deficiencies of modern contra is no more on-topic, though, than a whole
thread on the deficiencies of the Yugo.)

Thanks,

-- Alan (list owner)



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:07:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:06:33 -0700
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD and Yugos
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <NCBBKEFLBLMHAGLCIJMKOEIGDJAA.timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
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Actually, I've noticed a growing tendency of excessive Yugos in ECD
recently.  I think the problem comes from the same arrogant attitudes and
compromise that occurred historically in the creation of the Yugo
automobile.  The initial intent, while no doubt genuine, resulted in a
minimalist A-to-B (and sometimes back to A) car.  It was nothing
particularly exciting from an engineering or artistic standpoint, but it did
have the advantage of being more generally accessible.

This general accessibility while more prevalent in the simpler, faster,
dance forms such as contra, country-western, and certain generic "novelty"
dances is a too-edged sword.  While opening the world of dance to people who
might not otherwise be inclined (or otherwise leaning), it adds to the
general "sloppiness" experienced by some as excessive twirling, hot dogging,
sometimes at the expense of partners, sometimes at the expense of the dance
or community itself.

In an ECD context this has impact as well.  On the one hand, some people
coming in via the contra connection later find ECD too daunting, too
difficult, or too slow.  As a result, folk attempt to "jazz it up",
sometimes with exciting results (a sort of dance fusion), but sometimes at
the expense of the elegance, simplicity, and feel of ECD which many of us
love.

On the other paw, since ECD shares in being attractive as an initial foray
into dance, we also get a potentially large number of beginners, folks who
may be diamonds in the rough.  However, we need to make sure we polish those
gently, so that they get hooked on the dance form itself.  It's the
inclusiveness, the sense of community, which can also help retain folk.

Here's where the Yugo problem surfaces.  Too many folk, once they get their
feet wet (and not by poor irrigation or other floor conditions) decide that
they "know what's best", and feel the need to prove by bossing others
around, especially those they perceive as "not getting it".  The problem is
often it's the dance-blind leading the dance-blind.  I don't know how many
times the enjoyment of a dance experience has been thoroughly trashed by
"experts" throwing "newbies" around, or constantly shouting "Yugo here, no
Yugo there, no Yugo like this" while screwing up the dance themselves, or
otherwise causing a set (or portion thereof) to self-destruct.

Of course, there's a balance.  As a self-proclaimed "experienced" dancer, I
*do* feel the obligation to assist others where it might be helpful or
welcome, but I try to do with visual cues (pointing, head nods, extended
hands), and minimal physical cues (no wrenched shoulders, please).  This has
the advantage of not "calling from the floor" while the caller is doing
their job, and avoids Yugos (a good automotive decision as well).

Please keep responses on topic.  I don't care if you retain the ECD element
of the discussion, but please, PLEASE, have SOMETHING constructive to say
about Yugos.

:-)

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
http://connect.to/ric





> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU]On Behalf Of Alan Winston -
> SSRL Central Computing
> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 3:31 PM
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: On-topicness
>
> ECDers --
>
> The scope of this list is pretty broad, since I recognize the common roots
of
> ECD, Scottish, Irish sets, contra, quadrilles, to some extent morris, etc.
In
> general, though, I'd prefer that we only discuss these other dance forms
in
> light of their relationship to ECD.

[bulk of rant snip'd]
>
> about one or two off-topic posts, especially if they're funny.  A whole
thread
> on the deficiencies of modern contra is no more on-topic, though, than a
whole
> thread on the deficiencies of the Yugo.)
>
> Thanks,

[snip]

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:48:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:48:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000928004840.16615.qmail-AT-
web3301.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> While I believe that the skills learned in English dancing can
> improve people's contra dance abilities, it doesn't follow
> that an English dancer is necessarily a good contra dancer.  
> Many of the worst dancers at my local English dance are also 
> among the worst contra dancers.
> 

I think the key there is that they aren't really dancers. They
belong to what a friend and I refer to as the "Type 3" group,
the perpetual beginners. They never progress to the point that
they don't have to relearn how to dance every week. There are
people that I've known for thirty years who are still a part of
this group.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:03:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:02:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000928010252.16646.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:
> When folks (including myself) complain about the current state
> of contra dancing, I wonder why an English group, or even a 
> Scottish group, that wants to do contras just doesn't arrange 
> an evening of contras to suit themselves.
> 

When I moved to New England from Washington, DC in 1973, the
only Contras done in Washington were at the ECD at Tacoma Park.
Joe Blundon would occassionally call a Contra. Joe had quite a
few of the old EFDSS 78rpm recordings as well as other records
available from CDSS. I don't remember that we had any live music
available then, except possibly Barbara Harding on her
accordion. An ECD group with a band doing Contra would require
that the band be able to play the music.

Andy in Portland

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:06:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:05:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dancing as combat
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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> --- "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Wait a minute... You mean we're *not* supposed to treat
> contras or
> > EC dancing as the equivalent of unarmed combat??
> 
--- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> "Unarmed combat," Steve?
> Where do you thing sword dancing really got it's start?
> And we thought you were a historian!
> 

I've certainly experienced occassions when people have tried to
"unarm" me.

Andy

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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:08:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000928010815.22110.qmail-AT-
web1603.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
wrote:
 
> In other words, now that we've had the annual "kvetching about
> modern
> contradance" discussion, could we please drop it for a while...

Does this mean it's time to move on to the annual "clapping in
Petronella" discussion?

Barbara

=====
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Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:39:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:48:07 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD and Yugos
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000927184807.00836af0-AT-
oz.net>
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Thanks Ric for your delightful post on Yugos and ECD.   

You have my 100% support for non-verbal, non-violent leading.  In addition
your outrageous punning and cheerful tongue-in-cheek attitude are bound to
reassure beginners that ECD is a whole lot of fun. 

Ah yes.  Staying on topic with Jugos. 

The experienced dancer who wrenches some backs
Is not a good dancer, no, he is a Cad-ee-lacks
Basic manners and can't do the job
He causes his partner to hurt and to Saab

If he can't learn to lead without causing a frown
He should get on his Mustang and get out of town
the dance community just can't a-Ford
To retain people like this who can't come to Accord

some politeness to others. Let them take their aggression
and apply it elsewhere than our ECD lesson.
 
(I'm sorry I can't write just like V. Hugo
I just couldn't resist the jokes on the Jugo)

Victoria
 
 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:47:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:43:07 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330101b5f860471d4f-AT-
[216.238.224.105]>
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References: <20000928010815.22110.qmail-AT-
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At 6:08 PM -0700 9/27/00, Barbara Ruth wrote:
>Does this mean it's time to move on to the annual "clapping in
>Petronella" discussion?
>
>Barbara


Just remember Barbara, "If you're happy and you know it clap your hands!"

Mary Beth <== ranting off at a goodly pace brandishing a mighty large sword
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:48:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:47:57 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000601c028f6$81e7c590$81981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Barbara quoted me:

> When folks (including myself) complain about the current state of
> contra
> dancing, I wonder why an English group, or even a Scottish group,
> that wants
> to do contras just doesn't arrange an evening of contras to suit
> themselves.

And then she replied:
"While I believe that the skills learned in English dancing can improve
people's contra dance abilities, it doesn't follow that an English dancer is
necessarily a good contra dancer.  Many of the worst dancers at my local
English dance are also among the worst contra dancers."

And the good English dancers are....?

I'm not trying to generalize across the whole world here.  I'm assuming that
the reason an ECD or an SCD group wants to do contras is because many of the
folks have done them at some time and have become disaffected for one reason
or another.  I'm imagining folks like myself who would enjoy the occasional
evening of contradance but who don't want to get back into the current style
of energetic and symmetrical contras and who find contradancing, overall, to
be less interesting than ECD and SCD.

My experiences at Pinewoods English week have been of that nature -- good
English dancers who are also good (and usually former) contradancers but who
don't attend English/American week because they don't want to do
contradancing all week or be with a large contingent of die-hard
contradancers.  Three or four rousing contras, danced with skilled,
like-minded English dancers, one night out of the week, is just the right
amount of spice for me at English week.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:50:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:23:07 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on traditions in dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <p04330101b5f7bd37d8f0-AT-
[24.128.24.129]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <20000926200507.26870.qmail-AT-
web3302.mail.yahoo.com> <39D1083C.11697590-AT-
globalnetisp.net> <39D203DD.44B94BF5-AT-
sprintmail.com>

This discussion of how contras *used* to be danced seems like a 
reasonable place to mention that in 'vintage dance', when we do 
contras, we do them the old-fashioned way -- even more old-fashioned 
than most of you are talking about, in fact.

In general, vintage contras are much more like modern ECD than like 
modern contras.  They are even more like the ECD of about 15 years 
ago, before buzz-step swings somehow got introduced into ECD (at 
least, around Boston).

Y'all should come out and try it sometime!  Mind you, we do a mix of 
couple dances and contras and quadrilles, and since we have a lot of 
people who don't normally contradance, the contras tend to be 
relatively simple ones and explained at great length.  We *do* make 
sure people understand the relationship between the tune and the 
dance, and we have assistants on the floor to help sets that get into 
trouble.

For my own part, I enjoy both modern contras and modern ECD, and 
prefer that they not resemble each other.  So, I don't like contra 
moves creeping into ECD, I enjoy Jacqueline Schwab's signature style 
of almost percussionless flowing piano, and I *do* relish the energy 
and excitement of a contra dance and the infusion of jazz and rock 
into the traditional music.  It's best if that energy is controlled 
and directed, however!  One of the things I like about the 
Brattleborough Dawn Dances is that by 1:00 in the morning, most of 
the beginners have gone home, and most of the folks who are left are 
actually good dancers, and there's a decent amount of space to dance 
in.  If only the acoustics were better...

I wanted to mention that there're still plenty of regional 
differences, even though the movement of callers and musicians across 
the country via plane has reduced it considerably.  The first Dance 
Flurry I went to, which was also the first one held in Saratoga 
Springs, I encountered truly dangerous dancing, as apparently there 
were many dancers there who had never had to dance in a crowded hall 
before -- elbows were out, arms were at full extension, etc., in ways 
that I and the other crowded urban dancers considered to be dangerous 
and careless.  Elbows to the nose are *not* common here in Boston, 
despite crowded conditions and high-energy dances.

I think that the key difference between the way most folk (around 
here) dance modern contras and modern ECD is that for the contras, 
the key issue is rhythm, with the melody only acting to remind people 
to change steps to the next part of the pattern, whereas for ECD the 
key issue is graceful, continuous, flowing motion, fitting the melody 
(like vintage dance).  So, while beginners or people who are just 
plain bad dancers may not step on the rhythm in contras, even 
experienced dancers may play games with or blow parts of the pattern. 
ECD dancers, on the other hand, also sometimes don't dance on the 
rhythm, but are less likely to blow the pattern.  The main point of 
this is that the musicians approach the music differently.

All of these are simply my own opinions, of course, and YMMV.

--Mike Bergman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:31:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:31:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000928073122.2357.qmail-AT-
web3302.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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--- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Does this mean it's time to move on to the annual "clapping in
> Petronella" discussion?
> 

But it hasn't been a year since the last one.

Andy

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 06:42:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10009280931570.28818-100000-AT-
centipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Andrew Peterson wrote:

> 
> --- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Does this mean it's time to move on to the annual "clapping in
> > Petronella" discussion?
> > 
> 
> But it hasn't been a year since the last one.
> 
> Andy

It's time for the "What do we do for [Columbus Day][Halloween][All Saints'
Day][Thanksgiving][Winter Solstice][New Year's][Valentine's][Vernal
Equinox][Easter][Whitsun][May Day][Memorial Day][Summer Solstice]
[Independence Day][The Queen's Birthday][Labor Day][Autumnal Equinox] 
(pick one or more...)?" discussion.

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:02:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:02:18 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On-topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b5f8ffced6b8-AT-
[140.186.55.185]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Cecil Sharp's Birthday.

Saint Cecelia's birthday, also

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
landscape at:
http://www.capecodlife.com/CCD/regions/upper_cape.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:35:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:37:43 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <39D357B6.5F289747-AT-
erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <009F0CA2.316F1D21.6-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu> wrote:


> Besides, for those who want to do both, there's English-American week!

And E&A Week was truly marvelous this year!

Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> added:

> <snip> good
> English dancers who are also good (and usually former) contradancers but who
> don't attend English/American week because they don't want to do
> contradancing all week or be with a large contingent of die-hard
> contradancers.

I didn't notice many of those, but lots of enthusiastic teens and early-20's happily
dancing both (and well!).
Mary Kay Friday
Washington, D.C. (where taxation without representation thrives)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:49:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:52:49 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD/Contra - Participate in an experiment in NJ- 9/30
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002001c02964$281977c0$646cd626-AT-
lmh.varisys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Swingin' Tern has been running contra dances for many years in Chatham, NJ.
This is the first time I have heard of them running an "English & Contra"
event.  If you are in the tri-state area come and support their efforts to bring
the two dance communities together.  If it is a success, they'll do it more in
the future.

9/30/00 - Special Fifth Saturday Dance with Beverly Francis & Dressed Ship led
by Tom Phillips - Beginner's Workshop at 7:30 PM Dance from 8 to 11 PM.
At Ogden Memorial Church, located on Route 124 (Main Street) Chatham NJ.
Email me if you need more specific directions.

Loretta Holz   loretta-AT-
varisys.com


Loretta Holz                              732-356-7773 X101 (voice)
Varitronics Systems                  732-356-2340 (fax)
1924 US Hwy 22E                     loretta-AT-
varisys.com
Bound Brook, NJ 08805             http://www.varisys.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:07:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:06:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: special dances (was Re: On-topicness)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200009281706.e8SH6uq16047-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Eric Arnold writes:
> 
> It's time for the "What do we do for [Columbus Day][Halloween][All Saints'
> Day][Thanksgiving][Winter Solstice][New Year's][Valentine's][Vernal
> Equinox][Easter][Whitsun][May Day][Memorial Day][Summer Solstice]
> [Independence Day][The Queen's Birthday][Labor Day][Autumnal Equinox] 
> (pick one or more...)?" discussion.

    While we (Central Illinois English Country Dancers) like to think that
every dance we hold is special in some way, we do try to have a few each
year that are extra special.  Around Halloween we hold a Masqued Dance
and encourage people to come in costumes (of any kind).  Near Christmas
we hold a Christmas Ball and in February we hold a George Washington's
Birthday Dance where we feature early American dances.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:44:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:33:47 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Polka Dots
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000301c029bf$6d698c60$57f6490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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References: <39D04ABE.3EB10A-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>

I've only seen it done as a Scottish dance and learned it last summer in
Denver, Colorado.  It's very similar to another 5 person dance I think by
Martha Veranth out of Salt Lake City, Utah called "Take Five".

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Callens" <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
To: "ECD discussion list" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:05 AM
Subject: Polka Dots


> I have recently been looking for the origin of and more info on a dance
> I learnt from Bill Litchman under title "Polka Dots". It is published
> under that name in "Barn Dance Hoedown". No source is given.
>
> In Hugh Stewart's database, I found "Polka Dot Polka" written by Colin
> Andrews and published in "Devonian Double Circle". Has anyone access to
> that publication? Still available? And is the dance for five
> individuals?
>
> Philippe Callens
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:44:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:49:36 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: No contras at Pinewoods English Week
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000401c029bf$6ea0d3e0$57f6490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000c01c028b6$7f6b6f00$4f981c3f-AT-
MITRE.org>

I've started using some contra dances (and some English dances) with the
Scottish dance group I lead for a once a month "ceilidh" evening - it's
actually been interesting (and helpful) to start with a contra or English
dance with a walking step followed by a Scottish dance with the same
figures - allowing those who want to walk and the others to use Scottish
steps.
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1302 Waugh Drive
Houston, TX 77019-3908
Scottish Country Dancing and More
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patricia Ruggiero" <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
To: "English Dance" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 2:09 PM
Subject: No contras at Pinewoods English Week


> On Tuesday night the campers put together the evening dance program.
Every
> year, for as long as Howard and I have been attending (since 1987), there
> were several contra dances on the program.  Many campers say that those
are
> the best contra dance experiences of the year -- dancing contras with
> English dancers who know how to phrase a figure and who dance vigorously
> while still under control.
>
> This past August I had anticipated that there would be several contras on
> Tuesday night, thinking that this was our chance to dance contras the way
we
> like them.  But there were no contras at all.  Some of us wondered why.
> Some thought that contras had lost their appeal to English dancers.  Some
> others figured it was just coincidence that none of the volunteer callers
> thought to call a contra.  Anyone have any other ideas?
>
> When folks (including myself) complain about the current state of contra
> dancing, I wonder why an English group, or even a Scottish group, that
wants
> to do contras just doesn't arrange an evening of contras to suit
themselves.
>
> Mumbling to myself,
>
> Pat
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:57:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:44:57 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD/Jugo  (VICKIE)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000928.225356.-181937.5.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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After coming across Vickie Bestock's great verses....


The experienced dancer who wrenches some backs
Is not a good dancer, no, he is a Cad-ee-lacks
Basic manners and can't do the job
He causes his partner to hurt and to Saab

If he can't learn to lead without causing a frown
He should get on his Mustang and get out of town
the dance community just can't a-Ford
To retain people like this who can't come to Accord

some politeness to others. Let them take their aggression
and apply it elsewhere than our ECD lesson.
 
(I'm sorry I can't write just like V. Hugo
I just couldn't resist the jokes on the Jugo)

Victoria
 
 .....and after the groaning stopped, I realized that with all these
cars,
those trips to Tunbridge, Kilborn, Paris (via the Chunnel), and the 
others would be a lot more convenient.  Maybe there would even
be some room for my old Rambler. 

 

+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com; members.xoom.com/rounds
 FAX 1-917-677-5414 (NYC area code); Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:24:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:23:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <a3.beab14e.27068c8e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 9/28/00 10:00:59 AM, system-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU 
writes:

>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
>Subject: Re: On-topicness
>Message-ID: 
<Pine.SOL.4.10.10009280931570.28818-100000-AT-
centipede.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
>
>On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Andrew Peterson wrote:
>
>> 
>> --- Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Does this mean it's time to move on to the annual "clapping in
>> > Petronella" discussion?
>> > 
>> 
>> But it hasn't been a year since the last one.
>> 
>> Andy
>
>It's time for the "What do we do for [Columbus Day][Halloween][All Saints'
>Day][Thanksgiving][Winter Solstice][New Year's][Valentine's][Vernal
>Equinox][Easter][Whitsun][May Day][Memorial Day][Summer Solstice]
>[Independence Day][The Queen's Birthday][Labor Day][Autumnal Equinox] 
>(pick one or more...)?" discussion.
>
>Eric

Okay, fine, I will.  Remember last year, about this time, when all the 
calendar pedants started going on and on and on about how the millenium 
ACTUALLY started in 2001?  

Okay, people, here we are approaching the ACTUAL start of an ACTUAL new 
millenium.  If anyone happens to be holding an evening of ECD where, at the 
momentous moment, they'll be dancing Sellenger's Round (aka The Beginning of 
the World) I'll be there, be it never so far.  Moreover, I'll bring baked 
goods.    Heck, give me enough forewarning and a reasonable kitchen and I'll 
make breakfast after the dance.  

Nilos, who didn't dance last New Years Eve, but had a pretty good time anyway
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:19:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:19:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: On topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <25.b686385.27069989-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In a message dated 9/30/00 12:25:02 AM, Tideswell-AT-
aol.com writes:

<< kay, people, here we are approaching the ACTUAL start of an ACTUAL new 
millenium.  If anyone happens to be holding an evening of ECD where, at the 
momentous moment, they'll be dancing Sellenger's Round (aka The Beginning of 
the World) I'll be there, be it never so far.  Moreover, I'll bring baked 
goods.    Heck, give me enough forewarning and a reasonable kitchen and I'll 
make breakfast after the dance.  

Nilos, who didn't dance last New Years Eve, but had a pretty good time anyway 
>>

Nilos, 
Sellenger's is danced at midnight, New Year's Eve, every year at Berea 
Christmas Country Dance School. It's a good bet it will happen again this 
year. Not a whole evening of ECD, but plenty of it all week. Berea, Kentucky 
- see you there!
Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:17:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:18:25 -0700
From: srotenbe-AT-
impop.bellatlantic.net
Subject: Re: On topicness
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <39D585B1.FA3622F3-AT-
mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <25.b686385.27069989-AT-
aol.com>

Dear Nilos,

Sam will be leading the Washington D.C. New Years Eve dance, with an all English
program.

Sellingers sound's like a great beginning for the millenium.

We'll work on the kitchen.

Sandy & Sam




CF1125-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/30/00 12:25:02 AM, Tideswell-AT-
aol.com writes:
>
> << kay, people, here we are approaching the ACTUAL start of an ACTUAL new
> millenium.  If anyone happens to be holding an evening of ECD where, at the
> momentous moment, they'll be dancing Sellenger's Round (aka The Beginning of
> the World) I'll be there, be it never so far.  Moreover, I'll bring baked
> goods.    Heck, give me enough forewarning and a reasonable kitchen and I'll
> make breakfast after the dance.
>
> Nilos, who didn't dance last New Years Eve, but had a pretty good time anyway
> >>
>
> Nilos,
> Sellenger's is danced at midnight, New Year's Eve, every year at Berea
> Christmas Country Dance School. It's a good bet it will happen again this
> year. Not a whole evening of ECD, but plenty of it all week. Berea, Kentucky
> - see you there!
> Carl Friedman

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:02:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:58:49 -0400
From: pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sellinger's Millenium
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00092923584913-AT-
tedcrane.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

We'll be having our "2nd Annual Millenium Dance"
in Ithaca NY that night (and yes, there's a kitchen where 
we'll be having the dance.) I'm hoping to start with English
dances again - and Sellinger's sounds great!

Wouldn't it be fabulous if we could have Sellinger's Round
danced all over the country - heck, over the world
to bring in the _real_ new millenium!

Let's synchronize our watches...

Pamela
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:19:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:20:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Subject: Alice Burnham Nugent (1920-1980)
To: alicemem-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <200009300620.XAA23005-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu>
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Alice Burnham Nugent died suddenly in her home from massive heart
failure on the evening of Sunday, 24 September 2000. She was eighty
years old.

An enthusiastic teacher and organizer of folkdancing in the Seattle area
for more than four decades, Alice maintained friendships and connections
with dancers all over the country.  

A memorial celebration will be held the afternoon of Saturday 14
October 2000 at University Congregationalist Church, 4515 16th Ave NE,
Seattle, Washington, 206-524-2322. A dance is planned in the church
hall afterwards.  

More detailed biographical information and photos are available at

     http://seki.csuhayward.edu/alice.html 

Rememberances are welcome and should be sent to
	      <alicemem-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu> .  
They will be posted on the website if desired.  

Please forward this message to anyone else who should hear the news.  

			    Marjorie Nugent & Tom Roby
			    
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Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:38:35 PST
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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:38:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Midnight Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Well, this brings up an interesting question, now don't it?  

Sellenger's Round is traditional (or, let's say, customary) as the 
midnight-dance-to-bring-in-the-new-year at Berea, Mary Kay Friday (may her 
tribe increase) tells me Bare Necessities is customary at....er, was it DC, 
Mary Kay?  And the one time I had the good fortune to be in Westchester on 
New Years Eve it was Female Saylor danced as a sicilian circle, but I don't 
know if that's the usual and time-honored thing.

Any other communities out there wish to stand up and be tabulated?  And would 
those with such customs like to comment on *why* those dances are the one's 
chosen?

ever avid for information (and suddenly overwhelmed with possibilities)

Nilos


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Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:12:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:12:13 -0400
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Y'all come to "South" Amherst, MA
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Hello, all within dancing distance of western Massachusetts,

It's time to mark your calendar for the twice-a-year Advanced English
Country Dances at South Amherst, MA.  These are scheduled for October 22,
2000 and March 18, 2001. Both are Sunday afternoons, 2-5 pm. 

Join us for truly joyous dancing with a friendly crowd of experienced
dancers in a lovely hall, with great music. ("Like a Ball, but without
having to dress up," said one delighted dancer.)  Admission fee of $10 now
includes refreshments provided at the break.

On October 22, our gracious and talented M.C. will be Beverly Francis,
imported from New Jersey for the occasion.  Beautiful music by Van Kaynor,
fiddle; Chris Rua, oboe & recorders; and Margaret Ann Martin, piano.

If you come to town the day before, you can enjoy another lovely time with
Beverly as caller, at the regular Third Saturday Night dance, with music by
Pleasures of the Town (Doug Creighton, flute; Joyce Crouch, piano; and
guest Chris Rua, oboe & recorders).  8-11 pm, also at Munson Library. 
Admission $7.

M.C. and musicians for March 18 TBA.

So, y'all mark those calendars and come on down (or up, or over).  I don't
know if we'll have mint juleps on the lawn, but at least one of us knows
how to talk Southern, and our hospitality is well known here, just south of
that Yankee town, Amherst, Massachusetts.

For further info, call Joyce Crouch, 413-549-4123, or email at
joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com

Joyce Crouch
Amherst MA (but grew up in Georgia)