Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:45:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 22:14:14 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bfe63f$dca6a4a0$54eaadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A friend who's only danced once before has asked what shoes I'd recommend for next time; she didn't like doing it in sneakers. I wasn't sure what to advise, since I dance in engineer boots and am happy with them, but realize they're not for everyone. Does anyone have any suggestions? thanks -- Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 02:26:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 11:21:35 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: [Fwd: Job opportunity at Dance Books] To: ECD discussion list Message-ID: <3962FE1E.94CEB9C9-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Leonard wrote: > (This message is sent to those on the Dance Books mailing list, which is a closed > list restricted to those who have specifically asked to join it. If you wish > to be removed from the list, please send a blank message to dancebooks-AT- mail.com > with the single word remove as the message subject.) > > Editor - Designer > > Dance Books is looking for an editor-designer to work on the books and journal > which we publish. > The post would be particularly suitable for someone with established editing > skills who wishes to develop their design abilities. Some subject knowledge would > be useful, but is not essential; full working knowledge of Pagemaker is essential, > as is the ability to work harmoniously in a small, cramped, but friendly environment. > A non-smoker will be preferred. We are also prepared to consider part-time or > freelance applications. > > Applications, with cv, should be sent to: > David Leonard, Managing Director, Dance Books Ltd., 15 Cecil Court, London WC2N > 4EZ. > Email: dl-AT- dancebooks.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 06:26:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:09:51 -0500 From: Roger Diggle Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007051309.IAA29646-AT- serak.svc.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Marian Phillips wrote: >A friend who's only danced once before has asked what shoes I'd recommend >for next time; she didn't like doing it in sneakers. I wasn't sure what to >advise, since I dance in engineer boots and am happy with them, but realize >they're not for everyone. Does anyone have any suggestions? There's not an easy answer, since it depends on whatever foot problems the wearer may have, as well as the kinds of surfaces on which she will dance. Floors vary from very slippery to very sticky, from very hard (concrete) to very springy. One of my favorite, nearly universal solutions -- if dressy looks aren't important -- is the new generation of bowling shoes. They are built much like sneakers with some shock absorption, ok arch support, and are lightweight. They have a leather half-sole and the rubber heels are sticky for good stopping on slick floors. Mine actually have "non-marking rubber" embossed in the heel area, good for for halls with shoe police. Mine are dark brown, but they are available in a variety of colors. I get mine at a local bowling alley pro shop. Roger Diggle The electrons in this message are packaged by weight, not by volume. Some settling may have occurred during shipping. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 06:47:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 09:47:21 -0400 From: "M.A.J. McKenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000705094721.0080d8b0-AT- mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT my favorite ECD shoes-for-girls are jazz split-soles (Capezio or similar): hard rubber low heel, leather or hard rubber half-sole, and strong elastic arch support in between. they're not bulky, which accords with my preference, but for those who like bigger shoes there is also an athletic-shoe-like jazz boot version. they're available at dance shops and the online equivalent, but since the sizing system can be odd it's a good idea to buy them F2F the first time 'round. maryn At 10:14 PM 7/4/00 -0700, Marian Phillips wrote: >A friend who's only danced once before has asked what shoes I'd recommend >for next time; she didn't like doing it in sneakers. I wasn't sure what to >advise, since I dance in engineer boots and am happy with them, but realize >they're not for everyone. ... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 11:13:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 11:52:22 -0400 From: sol weber Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: shoes vs. floors To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000705.115226.-74725.1.solweber-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sprung wooden floors -- that's the ideal -- but sometimes we have to make do with rigid floors, whether cement, linoleum, etc. Are there any shoes available that provide cushioning, support, whatever, equivalent to dancing on the perfect floor? This would not only be helpful to those who would dearly love to attend a good dance on a bad floor, but, if made widely available, would broaden the possibilities when looking for suitable dance spaces. Any ideas out there? +++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" +++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) ++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and misc musical fun; solweber-AT- JUNO.com; members.xoom.com/rounds FAX 1-917-677-5414 (NYC area code); Urgent message? Please phone. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 13:09:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 14:57:23 -0500 From: Roger Diggle Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoes vs. floors To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007051957.OAA26920-AT- kodos.svc.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT sol weber wrote: >Sprung wooden floors -- that's the ideal -- but sometimes we have to >make do with rigid floors, whether cement, linoleum, etc. Are there >any shoes available that provide cushioning, support, whatever, >equivalent to dancing on the perfect floor? This would not only be >helpful to those who would dearly love to attend a good dance on a >bad floor, but, if made widely available, would broaden the >possibilities when looking for suitable dance spaces. Any ideas out >there? I'd lean toward the aforementioned new generation of bowling shoes for rigid floors But if that's not a good enough solution, some folks take good-quality running shoes to a shoe repair shop and have a leather half-sole installed. You'll be hard-pressed to get better cushioning than high-quality running shoes. On the other hand they're not pretty, don't go with vintage clothing particularly well. Roger Diggle This message produced with a minimum of 37% post-consumer recycled electrons. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:20:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 16:19:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000705231925.9083.qmail-AT- web3303.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Marian Phillips wrote: > A friend who's only danced once before has asked what shoes > I'd recommend for next time; she didn't like doing it in > sneakers. I wasn't sure what to advise, since I dance in > engineer boots and am happy with them, but realize they're not > for everyone. Does anyone have any suggestions? > Personally, I don't like doing any kind of dancing without leather-soled, lightweight dance shoes. I have aparticular style of Capezio that I like, although they are not as well made as some more expensive shoes. The problem for your friend is the investment for something that she has just started doing. One can easily spend $60 to $100 for a good pair of shoes. Some venues request/require that you have shoes that have not been worn outside. If she has a pair of leather soled street shoes, those would probably be suitable for most venues until she is sufficiently experienced/indoctrinated that she is sure that she wants to make the investment in special dance shoes. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 07:45:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:44:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000706144437.98025.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT With regard to dance shoes, a Mr. A.Anderson of Portland OR wrote: "Personally, I don't like doing any kind of dancing without leather-soled, lightweight dance shoes. I have aparticular style of Capezio that I like, although they are not as well made as some more expensive shoes. The problem for your friend is the investment for something that she has just started doing. One can easily spend $60 to $100 for a good pair of shoes. Some venues request/require that you have shoes that have not been worn outside. If she has a pair of leather soled street shoes, those would probably be suitable for most venues until she is sufficiently experienced/indoctrinated that she is sure that she wants to make the investment in special dance shoes." *** At this point I will state that I've always found that "lightweight dance shoes" leave my feet sore and aching the next day. This is because they provide little support and make it impossible to wear hard plastic orthotic inserts. (Which I wear all the time.) To dance, I wear ordinary black oxfords or "walking shoes" (which are modified sneakers, I guess). So I'd follow Mr. Anderson in advising your friend not to shell out big bucks for special shoes till he or she is sure of what works best in his or her case. Do unto your feet as you would they did unto you. Hear endeth the lesson. Steve Corrsin ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:06:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoe story, sole-mates To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000706180553.9272.qmail-AT- web1611.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I also favor bowling shoes for contra dancing for the reasons Roger mentioned - however, I have only been able to find them in white for women, which is not my favorite shoe color. Maybe at the pro shop they have more variety. I get mine at Sports Authority. Another advantage is that they are considerably cheaper than good aerobic or cross-training shoes - what I used to use. For English dancing however, I find bowling shoes a bit clunky - they're great for a good contra balance step, but heavy for English setting. So for English I go with jazz shoes of the type Marion mentioned, either Capezio or Bloch brand, although I prefer the full leather sole rather than the split kind. It's definitely worth searching on the internet for these, because you can get prices considerably lower than at shops. In fact, I wouldn't even know where to get them outside of a dance event like NEFFA, or maybe New York City. Where I am the dance shops are oriented to children, so the first time I bought a pair, pre-Internet, I had to have them special ordered, so I didn't get the chance to try them on first anyway. For a long day, such as a ball, I may do the afternoon workshop in bowling shoes and switch to the more formal looking jazz shoes for the evening. With both bowling shoes and jazz shoes I use a sorbothane inner sole for extra cushioning, and Thor-glo socks which are expensive but claim that if they're not the most comfortable pair of socks you've ever tried they will refund your money, and so far I've never had cause to ask for a refund. They're the sort of material that wicks moisture away in addition to providing extra cushioning. Of course it's necessary to take into account the extra padding when choosing a size. --- Roger Diggle wrote: > One of my favorite, nearly universal > solutions -- if dressy looks aren't important -- is the new > generation > of bowling shoes. They are built much like sneakers with some > shock > absorption, ok arch support, and are lightweight. They have a > leather > half-sole and the rubber heels are sticky for good stopping on > slick > floors. Mine actually have "non-marking rubber" embossed in the > heel > area, good for for halls with shoe police. Mine are dark brown, > but > they are available in a variety of colors. I get mine at a local > bowling alley pro shop. ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:57:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:59:26 -0700 From: Marian Phillips Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoe story, sole-mates To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bfe77c$4e3636c0$d2edadce-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Many thanks to everyone for the shoe suggestions; I have passed them on to my friend (who said, in a thoughtful tone, "maybe I'll just stick with sneakers this time"). Makes you wonder about the Regency women who never seemed to worry about wearing flimsey little slippers, but then, their average age seemed to be about 20, which probably made a difference. Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 18:01:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 18:00:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: shoe story, sole-mates To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000707010027.2337.qmail-AT- web2103.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Marian Phillips wrote: > Many thanks to everyone for the shoe suggestions; I have > passed them on to my friend... > Makes you wonder about the Regency women who never seemed > to worry about wearing flimsey little slippers, but then, > their average age seemed to be about 20, which probably > made a difference. I seem to remember hearing recently that Regency women over the age of 30 didn't dance at public affairs. --Lyrl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 23:19:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 02:18:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Nan1Evans-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6d.62e7e91.2696d04f-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To add to the conversation - but definitely not for the uncommitted to dancing types. On the subject of shoes and floors - I have been dancing long enough to have tried a lot of different shoes to various degrees of satisfaction under various conditions. But, I found that as I got older (heaven forbid), my shoe needs changed dramatically. I have found a solution which gives good support for aging feet -- a has successfully prevented the reoccurrence of nasty conditions such as planar fasciaitis -- and has made me able to dance for hours painlessly! I went to an orthopedic shoe store, told them what types of foot problems I have been having, what my dancing needs were (to dance both English and contra -- at dance camps and evenings on all types of floors). They recommended a particular leather orthopedic shoe, lace up, firm insole support, with a small heel. I ordered them -- sight unseen and foot unfelt -- and I have never regretted it! They are expensive, a little heavy, not delicate by any means, but my feet love them -- no problems since I started wearing them. I recommend a trip to the local orthopedic shoe store (there was only one in Portland, OR!) if you have the need. Nan Evans ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 00:00:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 01:59:20 -0500 From: Roger Diggle Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007070659.BAA27828-AT- kang.svc.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nan1Evans-AT- aol.com wrote: >I recommend a trip to the local orthopedic shoe store (there >was only one in Portland, OR!) if you have the need. There are orthopedic shoe companies which make shoes using casts of your very own feet to build the lasts. Definitely worth considering for problem feet. Roger Diggle "Trying to understand learning by studying schooling is rather like trying to understand sexuality by studying bordellos." -- Mary Catherine Bateson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 06:42:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rhmoir-AT- email.msn.com Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:27:12 +0100 From: Robert & Hazel Moir Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: BRUCE HAMILTON & BARE NECCESSITIES TOUR - JULY 2000 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000301bfe817$29b9d680$2a11bc3e-AT- oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT For the attention of English country dance enthusiasts in the U.K. : Ken McFarland has arranged the forth-coming tour for a group of American dancers, to be led by Bruce Hamilton with Bare Necessities as musicians. Their visit will end with a dance at Cecil Sharp house on Saturday July 29, 7.00 - 11.00p.m. Many people met Bruce on his last visit here and enjoyed dancing with him then. The music of Bare Necessities is well-known to most of us from their CDs. Now is the opportunity to dance to their music live ! Ken has given an open invitation to all dancers to come and join the event. A not-to-be-missed occassion ! Please spread the word to others. Advance tickets are available from Brenda Godrich at CSH., or pay at the door £4. Best wishes, Robert Moir ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:48:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: rhmoir-AT- email.msn.com Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:33:23 +0100 From: Robert & Hazel Moir Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re : Bruce Hamilton & Bare Necessities Tour To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000501bfe820$65bf5a20$ea0fbc3e-AT- oemcomputer> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From the information I have, the group will be at Cambridge from 18to20 July. Dancing at the United Reformed Church, Trumpington Road on the 18th &20th; start at 8.00p.m. They then go to Halsway Manor (no places available to others), returning to Cobham Hall in Kent from 25th to 28th. Dancing in the Gilt Hall. The tour ends with the dance at CSH on the 29th. Hope this is some help. If you have a specific query let me know and I'll do my best to find out. Regards, Robert ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 10:19:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 12:18:11 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Railing Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Shoes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For costumed dancing I have found that I can pull the loose footbeds out of a pair of athletic shoes, put them into a pair of handmade historical shoes (which have no arch support at all) and dance quite comfortably. This trick may work with other kinds of soft-soled shoes that don't have arch support. --Mary Railing ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:48:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Off to Mendocino . . . To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JRI5AX4NOI962S7W-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECDers -- I'm off to Mendocino in the morning, away from email for over a week. Play nice, don't fight, don't hack into the listserver while I'm gone. Concrete effects: Posts won't go into the web archive until I get back, since I put them in there manually after I've read them. The downloadable monthly archive is updated automatically, so it'll still be there. There will probably be fewer posts on the Victorian ballroom while I'm gone. (Darn, I'd meant to ask whether anybody knew anything about the curious similarity between the "Rye Waltz" and "La Chinche" (the bedbug).) Otherwise, carry on as before. -- Alan (list owner) =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 12:32:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:03:57 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: amazing gift To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I had lunch with a former co-worker today, whose prime title in life is "Queen of Tag Sales." We got along well, since I'm "Queen of NYQuilts!" but that's another tale. She gifted me with a book called _Folk Dancing_ by Richard Kraus, Professor of Education, Department of Health Education, Physical Education and Recreation, Teachers College, Columbia University. Printed by Macmillan in 1962. Quite a few references to ECD and playford and this about "Waltz Country Dance" England: "This progressive circle dance is a favorite at festivals of the Country Dance Society, where it is taught by May Gadd." In the description of The Galopede: "Many of the traditional English country dances were, unlike the Minuet [which is on the facing page], spirited and bouncy. They tended to be casual, friendly, democratic dances in the sense that anyone could take part, without special training. Galopede is a good example of this." ECD in this book: Black Nag (Listed as "Longways, difficult") Boston Two Step Circassian Circle Cumberland Square Eight Galopede Green Sleeves (Two-couple set, children's level) La Russe (Square, moderate) St. Bernard's Waltz Sellenger's Round The Rifleman Waltz Country Dance For comparison, from the US: All-American Promenade Cotton Eyed Joe Fireman's Dance Glover's Reel (attributed to Duke Miller and "stems from an old English dance which a glove cutter described to him) Glowworm Mixer Grand Square Haymaker's Jig Hull's Victory Jefferson's Reel Jessie Polka Lady of the Lake Oh Susanna Oklahoma Mixer Oxford Minuet (A couple dance) Petronella Portland Fancy Rig a Jig Jig Spanish Circle Waltz (progressive circle dance) Susan's Gavotte Ten Pretty Girls Teton Mountain Stomp Three Man Schottische Varsouvianna (a Mazurka) Virginian Reel Anyway, just thought it was worth reporting - there are obviously many folk dances here from the hora to Irish and some that are listed as "someother country/American." Whatta gift! Gail's one of those people that it's worth slipping $10-20 to when she's going out "sale-ing" because you just never know what she'll bring back. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 13:32:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:33:43 -0500 From: Loretta Holz Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NJ/NY area Special ECD Friday July 14 To: English Country Dance Server Message-ID: <00a501bfeb77$4f5d1880$646cd626-AT- lmh.varisys.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Would you like to do some English Country Dancing this week? Why not join is in Livingston, NJ? Teaching and Calling by Loretta Holz Music by the Flying Romanos – Robin Russell on piano, Norma Castle on flute & percussion, Marnen Laibow-Koser on violin, viola, & recorder Livingston – Friday, July 14, 7:30 to 10 PM Where – Church Hall of the Federated Church of Livingston Corner of Route 10 and North Livingston Ave Sponsored by the Federated Church of Livingston – Cost $5 Directions: From Route 78 Take Route 24 North; at Short Hills Mall take JFKennedy Parkway which turns into South Livingston Ave and then into North Livingston by the time it hits Route 10 (Mt Pleasant Ave). Church is on the north west corner. From 287 Take Route 10 East until it crosses North Livingston Ave. in Livingston. Church is on the northwest corner. From Garden State Parkway Take Route 280 East to Exit 5A for Livingston. Come south on Livingston Ave about 1 mile until it crosses Route 10 (Mt. Pleasant Ave). Church on northwest corner. Note: dress is casual; wear sneakers or dance shoes. Beginners please come on time – steps taught in one dance will be used in following ones. All dances taught No Partner or Experience required For more info, call Loretta at 732-356-3923 Loretta Holz 732-356-7773 X101 (voice) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:56:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:56:46 -0400 From: Mary E Jones Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Philippe Callens in Brattleboro VT!! To: ECD List Message-ID: <396BA62E.698BB500-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Dancers! Andy Horton just emailed me with this special announcement: On Sunday August 6, Philippe Callens, an internationally known caller, will be calling an English Country dance in Brattleboro, Vermont at the Oak Grove School. Philippe, who hails from Belgium, has been on staff at Pinewoods and Mendocino. He has a vast store of interesting dances, both new and old, and is one of the world's best callers. The dance will be from 7-9:30. All dances will be taught and no partner is necessary. Music will be provided by Amy Cann. Soft soled shoes are required. Admission $5.00. For additional information about the dance or directions to Oak Grove school either call 802-254-2651 or e-mail Andy Horton at horton-AT- sover.net. Mary here: This is a very special opportunity for us...I had the pleasure of taking a workshop in Arlington MA with Philippe and it was great fun. He is a delight! My apologies to anyone who receives this message twice...and please extend the invitation to any and all ECDancers. Mary ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:15:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:14:11 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: amazing gift To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007121914.e6CJEBJ02763-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary Beth Goodman writes: > > I had lunch with a former co-worker today, whose prime title in life > is "Queen of Tag Sales." We got along well, since I'm "Queen of > NYQuilts!" but that's another tale. > > She gifted me with a book called _Folk Dancing_ by Richard Kraus, > Professor of Education, Department of Health Education, Physical > Education and Recreation, Teachers College, Columbia University. > Printed by Macmillan in 1962. Yes, I found a copy at a used book store several years ago and have gotten quite a bit of use out of it. Another useful one is "Folk Dancing In America" by Eleanor Ely Wakefield, published in 1966. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:54:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 20:53:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Beer" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: amazing gift To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000714035322.235.qmail-AT- web1104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT --- Mary Beth Goodman wrote: > > She gifted me with a book called _Folk Dancing_ by Richard > Kraus, .... Teachers College, Columbia > University. > Printed by Macmillan in 1962. Mary Beth, it might interest you to know that Dick Kraus is alive and well and in fact came to our regular Philadelphia ECD dance this week, which he does now and again. He modestly just comes to dance, so few people in our group realize how central he was to recreational dance in the US or have ever heard him call. Tony Parkes once said to me that Dick was one of the callers he most admired and learned from in his beginning years as a square dance caller. --Jenny Beer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 09:59:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 12:58:32 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: amazing gift To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 7/13/00 11:54:32 PM, jbintercultural-AT- yahoo.com writes: << Dick Kraus is alive and well and in fact came to our regular Philadelphia ECD dance this week, which he does now and again. He modestly just comes to dance, so few people in our group realize how central he was to recreational dance in the US or have ever heard him call. >> I remember Dick as an up-and-coming young caller when I was an up-and-coming teenage square dancer during the late 40's-early 50's in NYC attending the weekly Friday dances at Ethical Culture on the West Side. Years later, Tony Saletan & I discovered that we'd been attending those dances simultaneously. Judy Grunberg ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:42:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:41:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JRVF2RZE209FNQX4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:15:01 -0600 From: "Thomas J. Senior" Subject: Teaching drama teachers Hello All! Because of an article in the Tribune (CDS News July/August), i have been invited to present ECD to a class of high school theatre teachers involved with a summer course at Roosevelt University. I have a variety of things i intend to present, but wonder if any of you would like to suggest ideas about things a drama teacher would need to know about English Country Dancing? I'll be providing them with CDSS's address of course, and some copies from parts of The Playford Ball & Allison Thompson's Book. They will have about 2 hours of dancing, and i've the honnor of live music from my friends. Thanks, Tom Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. Thomas J. Senior New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 847-784-6739 seniort-AT- nttc.org Science FAX 847-501-6408 =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:49:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:49:19 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007171849.e6HInJK18976-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes: > > > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:15:01 -0600 > From: "Thomas J. Senior" > Subject: Teaching drama teachers > > Hello All! > Because of an article in the Tribune (CDS News July/August), i have been > invited to present ECD to a class of high school theatre teachers involved > with a summer course at Roosevelt University. I have a variety of things i > intend to present, but wonder if any of you would like to suggest ideas > about things a drama teacher would need to know about English Country > Dancing? Tom, You might want to call Jane Hobgood, who leads the Central Illinois English Country Dancers with me. She has had a fair amount of experience using ECD in drama productions from the period when her husband was the head of the Theater Department here at the U of I. She hasn't gotten on-line yet, though her friends and family are urging her to do so, but her phone number is 217-328-1708. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:33:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 12:33:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JRVGI5GRKO9FO5TX-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Tom Senior wrote: > Because of an article in the Tribune (CDS News July/August), i have been >invited to present ECD to a class of high school theatre teachers involved >with a summer course at Roosevelt University. I have a variety of things i >intend to present, but wonder if any of you would like to suggest ideas >about things a drama teacher would need to know about English Country >Dancing? Uncontroversial: Emphasize that there was participatory dance and performance dance, and the participatory dance may or may not be particularly good to look at. I would certainly bring up Thomas Bray and his ECD theatrical afterpieces, which are specifically designed to look good on stage while using the country dance conventions of his period. I disremember at present whether there's much ancillary material in the Hellwig/Barron redaction of the Bray dances that would be of interest to drama teachers, but it's probably worthwhile for you to check. It's probably also worth pointing out that a bunch of ECDs are set to tunes that show up also in ballad operas, notably Gay's _The Beggars' Opera_, and the connections between theatrical types and dances: eg, Jacob Hall, Mme. Auretti, etc, and perhaps hammer heavily on Purcell. More controversial: My theory is that ECD served different social functions at different times - that the 1600s USA dances allowed a small number of people to show off in front of a large number, while the late-1700s longways duples allowed more general participation, for example. This explains why the dances have different formations and different levels of complexity, etc - they really mirror the social needs of the people they were made for at the time they were made. In the revival we've tended to lump them all together and make them all general-participation dances. If you agree with this, you can perhaps use it to explain to the drama teachers why it's a better idea - historically, anyway - to choose a dance from the time period in which the play was written than just to do something that looks nice but comes a hundred years later. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:38:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 14:38:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: BG Dance week and crossing the Great Divide To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000717213819.21809.qmail-AT- web1605.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Well friends, just home from Buffalo Gap Dance week, which used to be English-American week (via a 12 return trip through yesterday's thunderstorms that shut down airports up and down the East Coast, leaving me in, instead of New Haven at 4:30 in the afternoon, Hartford, an hour and a half away via shuttle, which the airline did not provide, at 10:30 p.m. and lost luggage, but we won't go into all that). But it was a lovely week, made the more so by a striking lack of divisiveness between the contra and English elements, and what was particularly gratifying was hearing more than one person who had come there really for the American dancing only, say that they had enjoyed the English dancing, including one gentleman who got up and announced that fact during a camp gathering. I think it's a tribute to Alisa Dodson's excellent programing, as well as to her and Helena Cornelius' spirited calling and thoughtful choice of dances, the superb musicians we had, AND the positive energy and friendliness that the more experienced English dancers projected, that this was the case. I think it's also a good sign that we can promote this dancing to those who are resistant (and do it without sacrificing quality of dancing), if we keep in mind that the object is to let others share in how incredibly much fun English dancing is. Barbara ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 15:20:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:19:18 -0500 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <005a01bff03d$abb06a40$b4f7490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JRVF2RZE209FNQX4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Of course, there are the dances done for the Jane Austen movies - which might strike a chord with high school students - there are a number of web sites for these. Dianna Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray Houston, TX 77019-4946 Scottish Country Dancing and More web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing" To: Sent: Monday, July 17, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers > > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 11:15:01 -0600 > From: "Thomas J. Senior" > Subject: Teaching drama teachers > > Hello All! > Because of an article in the Tribune (CDS News July/August), i have been > invited to present ECD to a class of high school theatre teachers involved > with a summer course at Roosevelt University. I have a variety of things i > intend to present, but wonder if any of you would like to suggest ideas > about things a drama teacher would need to know about English Country > Dancing? > I'll be providing them with CDSS's address of course, and some copies > from parts of The Playford Ball & Allison Thompson's Book. They will have > about 2 hours of dancing, and i've the honnor of live music from my friends. > > Thanks, > > Tom > > > Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. > > Thomas J. Senior > New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave > 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 > Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 > 847-784-6739 seniort-AT- nttc.org > Science FAX 847-501-6408 > > > > > ============================================================================ === > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 > ============================================================================ === > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 16:54:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:54:51 -0400 From: "Albert A. Blank" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39739CCA.D0DB8B17-AT- sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JRVF2RZE209FNQX4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Dear Tom, English dance for drama is worth a long thread. At Pinewoods, Gene Murrow led a great session on presenting ECD. When he gets back from Early Music Week, it would be marvelous if he would join the discussion. Some of my remarks stem from my experience leading the English Country Dance Society of Pittsburgh, with the help of Dorothy Bund Minnich, Mavis Bridgewater, Gene Richards, and others, in presentations at the Pgh Folk Festival and many other places. What to present and how to present depends very much on the audience and the ambience. For a film, the camera can close in on the dancers from a variety of angles and from above, can zoom in and out and pan. Good photography can expose the heart of a dance. Behind a proscenium arch, ECD doesn't stand up very well on its own. The problem is that the action is almost always internal to the set. It is usually necessary to add "bits" to captivate the audience, something Reel Nutmeg does very well. CDS Pbgh had the good fortune to perform in the Civic Arena on an arena stage that was viewed from steeply banked seating above. This made it easy to present the grand shape of the dance and to create visually interesting transitions. Of course, the show always had a good story line, as well. Often, we presented in intimate settings so that we could interact closely with the audience. Even there, it was important to have a story line. Primary rule -- keep each dance selection short unless it is merely background for the main dramatic focus. Otherwise, only the cognoscenti will stay awake. Well, that's for starters. Ciao, Albert ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:36:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 20:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfelinda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Amazing Gift" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For Jenny Beer: Jenny, was glad to hear Richard Kraus is alive and well and dancing in Philadelphia. I learned to folk dance with him, way back when. Linda Wolfe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 18:18:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:42:39 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000717.214715.-10351.0.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello all, Just returned from my 13th year at a family camp in New Hampshire started by two redoubtable Quaker ladies in the 1890s who are now honored on the top of nearby Rattlesnake Mountain (500+ feet above sea level, just got my six-year old up it) with a commemorative sign about the "Ladies of the Lake" and of course I believe the contra dance mentioned in Tolman/Page to predate this particular sign and indeed my ladies themselves but this has caused me to wonder if any one knows with regard to the contra dance (sorry, this is a little off-ECD-topic): what lady? what lake? why? when? who? how? wherefore? Thanks! Allison Thompson http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:00:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:06:11 -0700 From: John Carver Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dancing in Victoria To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000717210611.0086b3f0-AT- pop.islandnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Victoria (BC, Canada) will holding its first English Country Dance weekend Sept. 23, 24. Hope to see some of you there. Victoria's a lovely place to visit and this should be a fun weekend. Caller Laura Me Smith is coming over from Seattle to lead the workshops and the Saturday night dance. Music will be provided by local bands Rig-A-Jig and Odd Hack. More information is available on our website, http://www.islandnet.com/~jcarver/ecd.html Or contact Rosemary at rlach-AT- vic.imag.net John Carver ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 21:11:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:08:38 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20000717.214715.-10351.0.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> My understanding that the poem of the same name was very popular when first published and spawned among other things both the dance and a popular quilt block. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:37:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:37:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English & American dance Wed 19 July, Princeton NJ USA To: ECD mailing list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As previously mentioned, the Princeton (NJ) Country Dancers' weekly dance tomorrow evening (Wednesday, July 19) will consist of a mix of English and American dances called by Scott Higgs to the music of the Free Radicals. Time: 8-10:30 p.m. Place: Suzanne Patterson Center, Monument Drive, behind Princeton Borough Hall & police station, near intersection of routes 27 and 206. The dance hall is AIR-CONDITIONED, by the way, and a short walk from train or bus. For more info., e-mail or call me (609-252-0248) or check the PCD web page at . Hope to see some of you there! Susie Lorand (organizer & band member) wishing dance week at buffalo gap hadn't ended quite so soon... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:58:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:58:49 +0100 From: francis2 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002001bff103$5b867e80$9c90183e-AT- oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20000717.214715.-10351.0.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Beth Goodman To: Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 5:08 AM Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake > My understanding that the poem of the same name was very popular when > first published and spawned among other things both the dance and a > popular quilt block. > > Mary Beth Lady of the Lake was the 3rd of Sir Walter Scott's narrative poems published in1810. The story is set in the Trossachs(lit: bushy places) region of central Scotland. The Lake is Loch Katrine, and the Lady was Ellen Douglas, daughter of a former friend of James V, king of Scotland, who met her when travvelling around his kingdom incognito. She was living as a outlaw on Ellens Island, as her father had fallen out with the king, but they were reconciled after this meeting. James V is also reckoned to be 'The Guid Man of Ballengigh' The steam-boat 'Sir Walter Scott' still runs daily on Loch Katrine, as it has done for the last 100 years. francis. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:14:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 17:09:08 -0600 From: "Thomas J. Senior" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Teaching drama teachers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello All! Because of an article in the Tribune (CDS News July/August), i have been invited to present ECD to a class of high school theatre teachers involved with a summer course at Roosevelt University. I have a variety of things i intend to present, but wonder if any of you would like to suggest ideas about things a drama teacher would need to know about English Country Dancing? I'll be providing them with CDSS's address of course, and some copies from parts of The Playford Ball & Allison Thompson's Book. They will have about 2 hours of dancing, and i've the honnor of live music from my friends. Thanks, Tom Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. Thomas J. Senior New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 847-784-6739 seniort-AT- nttc.org Science FAX 847-501-6408 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 04:57:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 04:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Philippe Callens in Brattleboro VT!! To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000720115700.23579.qmail-AT- web2104.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT --- Mary E Jones wrote: > On Sunday August 6, Philippe Callens, an internationally > known caller, will be calling an English Country dance in > Brattleboro, Vermont, at the Oak Grove School....etc. A reminder that Philippe will also be calling on August 9 for the Boston Centre. The dance is from 7:30 to 10:30 at the Park Avenue Congregational Church in Arlington Heights. Email me if you need travel directions. --Lyrl __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:37:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 22:01:53 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000720.220357.-520307.2.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks for your reply, Francis. It reminds me that some years ago I was indeed on a day trip to Loch Katrine and probably on that very boat to which you refer and I remember a young man with blue knees (because, being a Briton, and that it was July, he was honor-bound not to wear anything but short pants and a light shirt even though the temperature was hovering in the low 40s (F)) throwing up over the railing in front of me; after which I had the honor (or honour) of taking a picture on the pier that, upon, developing, was identical to the postcard made twenty years prior which gave me a lovely feeling about Stability and The Empire. So that helps me place The Lady of the Lake. Thanks! Allison On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:58:49 +0100 francis2 writes: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Beth Goodman > To: > Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2000 5:08 AM > Subject: Re: Lady of the Lake > > > > My understanding that the poem of the same name was very popular > when > > first published and spawned among other things both the dance and > a > > popular quilt block. > > > > Mary Beth > Lady of the Lake was the 3rd of Sir Walter Scott's narrative poems > published > in1810. The story is set in the Trossachs(lit: bushy places) region > of > central Scotland. The Lake is Loch Katrine, and the Lady was Ellen > Douglas, > daughter of a former friend of James V, king of Scotland, who met > her when > travvelling around his kingdom incognito. She was living as a outlaw > on > Ellens Island, as her father had fallen out with the king, but they > were > reconciled after this meeting. James V is also reckoned to be 'The > Guid Man > of Ballengigh' > The steam-boat 'Sir Walter Scott' still runs daily on Loch Katrine, > as it > has done for the last 100 years. > > francis. > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 07:40:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 10:40:02 -0400 (EDT) From: FLORA J JOSEPHS Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Dance Workshop To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We will be having an afternoon workshop/dance at the Whately Dance Barn in Whately, Mass, designed specifically for callers and creators of English Country dances: Creators can try out their new dances; callers can gain experience by calling particularly hard dances; participants can try calling for the first time; and dancers can be challenged by all of the above -- all in the spirit of learning and having fun. Callers will be asked to donate a minimal fee for calling each dance, and dancers, as guinea pigs, will also be asked to make a small donation. All proceeds will go toward paying the musicians. Orly Krasner & Victor Skowronski are committed and involved in the organization of this event. Anyone wishing to call a dance should contact Richard (see below for address and phone information). Make a full day of it and join the 3rd Saturday English dance in the evening at Munson Library in South Amherst. We will have a potluck meal after the workshop. If you don't come to the workshop but plan to come to the Saturday dance, please feel free to join us at the meal. TIME: 2:30 PM DATE: Sat, Sept 16 PLACE: Whately Dance Barn, Whately MA DIRECTIONS: See http://www.amherst.edu/~fjjoseph/ or contact Richard: COST: $2:00 to get in, $2:00 per dance if you call. If you have a new dance, we need music in advance. Contact Richard at (413) 665-0484 or FJJoseph-AT- Amherst.unix.edu; I will be out of twon July 31 to Aug 15. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 06:50:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 09:50:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: amazing gift To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 11 Jul 2000, Mary Beth Goodman wrote: > I had lunch with a former co-worker today, whose prime title in life > is "Queen of Tag Sales." We got along well, since I'm "Queen of > NYQuilts!" but that's another tale. > > She gifted me with a book called _Folk Dancing_ by Richard Kraus, > Professor of Education, Department of Health Education, Physical > Education and Recreation, Teachers College, Columbia University. > Printed by Macmillan in 1962. > > (snip) > For comparison, from the US: > (snip) > Glover's Reel (attributed to Duke Miller and "stems from an old > English dance which a glove cutter described to him) A friend of Duke comments that she always thought he named it after Glovesville, NY, where he lived. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:41:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:41:35 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007241841.e6OIfZt20527-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know when the figure "4 changes of rights and lefts" (going around the minor set of 4 taking right and left hands alternately, a circular hey with hands) changed into the figure "right and left through" that we know today where you pass straight across the set (taking right hands or not depending on various factors) and then do a courtesy turn or wheel-around with your neighbor? It seems to me that most dances from the 1700's specify rights and lefts, though I guess I don't necessarily know exactly how this was implemented, and dances done in the 1900's and later refer to the right and left through. So at some point (perhaps during the 1800's) this figure changed. Is there any evidence as to when this was? Any thoughts as to why? Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:09:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:09:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JS575R9WS29FN779-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jonathan Sivier writes: Does anyone know when the figure "4 changes of rights and lefts" (going around the minor set of 4 taking right and left hands alternately, a circular hey with hands) changed into the figure "right and left through" that we know today where you pass straight across the set (taking right hands or not depending on various factors) and then do a courtesy turn or wheel-around with your neighbor? It seems to me that most dances from the 1700's specify rights and lefts, though I guess I don't necessarily know exactly how this was implemented, and dances done in the 1900's and later refer to the right and left through. So at some point (perhaps during the 1800's) this figure changed. Is there any evidence as to when this was? Any thoughts as to why? I begin to get the feeling that I'm completely predictable here, and that everybody's already heard enough about quadrilles. At least I didn't bring it up first this time. So, yeah, I'm under the impression, which I can't prove, that 4 changes of rights and lefts turned into right and left through and back sometime in the 1800s, and that it did in quadrilles; I'm under the further impression (and I really can't cite sources here; I don't have them) that this came about as a result of having half-right-and-left, ending facing back into the set, as a figure. (But, eg, Elegance and Simplicity has half right and left in the late 1700s, followed by a hands across so you must all be facing back in, so this isn't guaranteed to work.) As Stan Isaacs interpreted a c.1805 French quadrille book, ladies' chain and rights and lefts had open turns, not the courtesy turn we know now, but I think it comes in later. Another possibility would be that it happened in contradancing during its long exile in rural New England; certainly the same aesthetic that makes casting assisted (either with actual physical contact or matching shoulders and wheeling around) would seem to be seen in courtesy turns on ladies' chain and right and left. That should be non-authoritative enough. Any other ideas? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:49:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:41:30 -0400 From: Robert & Kathryn Johnson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: "'ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" Message-ID: <01BFF58E.25C08B80-AT- ha10s198.d.shentel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_7+g6ft8fIvQerH4mAl8QyA)" --Boundary_(ID_7+g6ft8fIvQerH4mAl8QyA) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Being even less an authority than Allan, it seems to me that we are mixing apples and oranges, again? Or perhaps regional influences? Or even perhaps ECD and Contra and Square and Folk, and whatever. My instruction for ECD is: Right to Partner (sometimes Neighbor), a 90 degree turn, Left to Neighbor (sometimes Partner) and so on until returning to the orignal place. If the figure requires less than a full measure, such is stated, as in Rights and Lefts, Two (or Three) changes, sometimes halfway. This figure is more likely in Longways dances. Right and Left Through, to me, is a Contra or Squares call, and is: Right to Partner (or Opposite) and left to Neighbor (or Partner), so the couple must then turn to face in. Courtesy turn seems to depend on a lot of things. Don't know if this helps, but as I said, I am no expert. Bob from the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia --Boundary_(ID_7+g6ft8fIvQerH4mAl8QyA) Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE begin 600 file M>)\^(AH4`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0!-AT- `(````Y`0```````#H``$--AT- `0` M`-AT- ````(``-AT- `!!)`&`$-AT- !```!````#`````,``#`#````"P`/#-AT- `````"`?\/ M`0```%<`````````-AT- 2L?I+ZC$!F=;-AT- #=`0]4`-AT- ````!%0T1`4U-23#`T+E-, M04,N4W1A;F9O``,P`0```!T```!%0T1`4U-2 M3#`T+E-,04,N4W1A;F9O``$P M`0```!\````G14-$0%-34DPP-"Y33$%#+E-T86YF;W)D+D5$52<```(!"S`! M````(-AT- ```%--5%`Z14-$0%-34DPP-"Y33$%#+E-404Y&3U)$+D5$50````,` M`#D`````"P!`.-AT- $````"`?8/`0````0````````#L3D!"(`'`!-AT- ```!)4$TN M36EC#`$````% M````4TU44``````>`!\,`0```!,```!B;V)K871```-AT- 0`0```&4```!"14E.1T5614Y,15-304Y!551( M3U))5%E42$%.04Q,04XL2513145-4U1/34542$%45T5!4D5-25A)3D=!4%!, M15-!3D1/4D%.1T53+$%'04E./T]24$522$%04U)%1TE/3D%,``````(!"1`! M````%`,``!`#``".!```3%I&=3$8Q)7_``H!#P(5`J-AT- %ZP*#`%`"\-AT- D"`&-H M"L!S970R-P8`!L,"-AT- S(#Q0(`<')"<1'B0 M!"`#D6%U=,)H!;!I='D-AT- '$`#D:1!;!DQ+"`<-AT- "`1L.,3X`0-AT- =&\-AT- !X`4`K`'E!M:7-AT- ;$IQA<`M0!Y$`<&0-AT- !;`G&4$'D!U-AT- 86<+<3\-AT- M"!/!-AT- 1M1\>`BO&*PHJE2D-AT- `RL-AT- ($#]`Z!U`C`# M$1>-AT- +3(;$AX1=QQ`'E`<86,6%S,Y$=8+\UH!%P*;$=H`&0$]!D(,$_!"`+-AT- "GT M'_0MDB"Q5'?E'B`H!;%4:`G1+\`1<0<-AT- A"LH$8!L9G=A>7\RP3D`-E$S9391 M!&`?`6QP:6ME;"AB+8`"(&?[.N$$(&0`<",1,L$G?"H$_S?6./((8"H-AT- '6`> M$QUA&]&O)-8%L264!"!C!T!L)H37*<\JTP6Q3Q^P;P"0$]#_+\0;H"V^!;$O M5CGB,:,%H/9U'\$>,'43P#&B`Z`M,GT>`F8RD2*1,L$(4A/0<_\`= M8&(<,#;R28\=H`MP-M%0(&%M($Z`%1M`>"&1="=M0F]B-RDP`V$QHU-(P2`1 M;V&U-C!60I%E'*!,D58T$%\B,`,`)3`*A1;!`%70`P`0$``````#`!$0```` M`$``!S"`>:,7K?6_`4``"#"`>:,7K?6_`1X`/0`!````!0```%)%.B`````` "F%0` ` end --Boundary_(ID_7+g6ft8fIvQerH4mAl8QyA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:55:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JS5BM4ZDW29FN779-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Bob wrote: (Actually, I think this is Bob's first post. Welcome!) >Being even less an authority than Allan, it seems to me that we are mixing >apples and oranges, again? Or perhaps regional influences? Or even perhaps >ECD and Contra and Square and Folk, and whatever. I think Jonathan's question is based on the indisputable idea that contra started out as ECD (or, in revival, early American) and diverged. Some of those divergences are recent, and can be traced - Dan Pearl says that the wrist-grip star in contra came from a NEFFA in 1948 where a contra display team that used handshake star was impressed with a Danish group's use of the wrist-grip, and adopted it - and some are less recent, but could perhaps be traced by appearances in dance manuals. (Various chestnut contras can be found described in dance manuals between 1850 and 1900, as contra or contry dances.) I don't think he thinks rights and left in ECD are now done as right and left through, but he - someone who calls both contra and ECD - would like to know when the two forms started doing this move differently. >Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM >Content-transfer-encoding: BASE64 >eJ8+IhoUAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAA >AAIAAgABBJAGAEgBAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFcA etc. I'm not sure what this unnamed binary was on the end of your message, but it would be a good idea to turn it off when posting to the list. Thanks! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:29:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:29:02 -0500 (CDT) From: j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200007242129.e6OLT2R04453-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes: > > I think Jonathan's question is based on the indisputable idea that contra > started out as ECD (or, in revival, early American) and diverged. Some of > those divergences are recent, and can be traced - Dan Pearl says that the > wrist-grip star in contra came from a NEFFA in 1948 where a contra display team > that used handshake star was impressed with a Danish group's use of the > wrist-grip, and adopted it - and some are less recent, but could perhaps be > traced by appearances in dance manuals. (Various chestnut contras can be > found described in dance manuals between 1850 and 1900, as contra or contry > dances.) > > I don't think he thinks rights and left in ECD are now done as right and left > through, but he - someone who calls both contra and ECD - would like to know > when the two forms started doing this move differently. That is correct. When I'm calling English dances I will use "4 changes of rights and lefts" and when calling contras I use "right and left through over and back". The intent is to give these two types of dances a distinctive flavor, even though I suspect that this is the same figure, just changed over time. The question is, if I'm calling an early contra dance, say from the 1820's, which version of the figure is more likely to be correct? Is there any way to know? If not I'll probably stick with the 4 changes to make early contras more distinct from modern contras. Looking at some of the early dances it seems like right and left through is sometimes a bit awkward, for purposes of getting to the next figure, whereas rights and lefts around in a circle will end up with everyone facing in the correct direction. Many early contra dances end with this figure and if you do the 4 changes of rights and lefts you pull by your neigbor and end up facing your next neighbor automatically. Doing right and left over and back leaves you facing into the set and you then need to turn in the correct direction to face your next neighbor. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:14:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:21:20 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <397DBE7F.4819BCF2-AT- globalnetisp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200007242129.e6OLT2R04453-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Contra and Square dance "rights and lefts"? I started square dancing, in the country, in 1939 and was introduced to contra dances (again in the country) the fall of the same year and can only say that the figure evolved differently in different locations. At that time at least there was no such thing as a "correct" version, only a regionally correct one. I have seen it done with arm around the waist for a "courtesy turn" but have also seen it done with the adjacent people, shoulder to shoulder, pivoting round before the return (no lefts about it), I have even seen it done, in a "proper" contra with the men crossing on the inside and the women on the outside, followed by the shoulder-to-shoulder pivot. Surprisingly enough, in those days at least, I never saw pulling by with the left hand used at all-in contras or squares that is. We must put things in context-remember there was no web and very little contact with dance groups outside your own region more than 40 or so years ago- I can even remember a dance (about 50 years ago) in Prince Edward Island where the term "square" meant a big circle style dance but "squared up" with the corners of the room. To them, what we would call a square (or a quadrille) was an "eights". Traditional dancing was not uniform in days of difficult communication. Ben Stein dancers-AT- globalnetisp.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:49:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:49:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000725234933.17677.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT --- Benjamin Stein wrote: > Traditional dancing was not uniform in days of difficult > communication. > It isn't even uniform now... It all depends on the caller and what they learned from their teachers. Andy in Portland OR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 03:46:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:29:00 +0100 From: Paul Sartin Subject: help To: ECD Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <397EBD6C.CB2D941E-AT- attglobal.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT We - Belshazzar's Feast - are coming to the US in a couple of weeks' time. Our journey encompasses Pittsburgh, Michigan, Pinewoods and DC/Baltimore in that order, and to cut costs we thought we'd hire a car rather than take internal flights. Problem is, car hire is far more expensive than we reckoned on. Does anyone have any suggestions/a car they can lend us for a fee, please? Yours in mild desperation, Paul. ________________________ Paul Sartin MA (Oxon) LRSM May Cottage, Wherwell, Hampshire, SP11 7JS Tel/fax: +44 (0) 1264 860791 Mobile: +44 (0) 411 485798 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:57:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:34:27 -0330 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tractor Square Dancing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_PGlZ0vqEAZNY+ZBUNhQZ1Q)" --Boundary_(ID_PGlZ0vqEAZNY+ZBUNhQZ1Q) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've not seen it mentioned here, but this may be of passing interest to members of this group. The National Post (Canada) reprinted a recent story from USA Today that described a rather unique variation on square dancing. A group of farmers from the Sioux City, Iowa, are have formed a tractor square dance team. All members of the troupe drive Farmall tractors - the "gals" on the 16 horsepower tractor; and the "guys" on the 25 horsepower tractor. They dress appropriately and seem to have manuevers for do-si-dos and allemande. The full article can be found at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds066.htm. Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's (Newfoundland) mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= ===== --Boundary_(ID_PGlZ0vqEAZNY+ZBUNhQZ1Q) Content-type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I've not seen it mentioned here, but this may be of passing interest to members of this group. The National Post (Canada) reprinted a recent story from USA Today that described a rather unique variation on square dancing. A group of farmers from the Sioux City, Iowa, are have formed a tractor square dance team. All members of the troupe drive Farmall tractors - the "gals" on the 16 horsepower tractor; and the "guys" on the 25 horsepower tractor. They dress appropriately and seem to have manuevers for do-si-dos and allemande. The full article can be found at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds066.htm. Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's (Newfoundland) mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= --Boundary_(ID_PGlZ0vqEAZNY+ZBUNhQZ1Q)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 14:20:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:20:33 -0400 (EDT) From: FLORA J JOSEPHS Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Just a few more thoughts from another non-expert on the subjewct of rights & lefts vs right & left thru. I too believe they are the same figure. Four changes of rights and lefts still shows up in modern contras with a slight variation: balance by the right an pull by with your partner, change by the left with your neighbor, that again. Right and left thru, courtesy turn, and back appears in some early contra: Petronella comes to mind. Also, a triple minor NH dance named "Market Lass," (date?) that seems to me another transitional-to-contra dance uses a same gender right & left thru, courtesy turn & back. This seems to imply the change occurred in the early 1800's. I suspect it was part of changing from ECD formality to contra fun. As most of you know, people in the South & West use hands in right & left thru, New Englanders don't, and my feeling is that the NE way is spreading. Doing it with hands is kind of the missing link between the figures. Richard Chamlin. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 15:01:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:04:54 -0500 From: simonl-AT- accel.net (Simon Ladell) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tractor Square Dancing To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <397F6E96.CAF1927-AT- accel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Ha! I have long wanted to make a film of a bunch of backhoes (or other suitable gangly hydrolic equipment) performing a "ballet" in unison, on a sheet of asphalt with slanting, golden morning sunlight and a small amount of rising mist. The budget would be a bit of a killer, tho'. Simon "Martin E. Mulligan" wrote: > I've not seen it mentioned here, but this may be of passing interest to members of this group. > > The National Post (Canada) reprinted a recent story from USA Today that described a rather unique variation on square dancing. > > A group of farmers from the Sioux City, Iowa, are have formed a tractor square dance team. All members of the troupe drive Farmall tractors - the "gals" on the 16 horsepower tractor; and the "guys" on the 25 horsepower tractor. They dress appropriately and seem to have manuevers for do-si-dos and allemande. > > The full article can be found at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds066.htm. > > Martin > > ========================================================================= > Martin E. Mulligan > St. John's (Newfoundland) > mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca > ========================================================================= -- The King doth wake tonight and takes his rouse, Keeps wassail, and the swagg'ring upspring reels. And as he drains his draughts of Rhenish down The kettledrum and trumpet thus bray out... Hamlet I iv 8-11 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:21:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:21:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tractor Square Dancing To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000727002107.26355.qmail-AT- web3304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- "Martin E. Mulligan" wrote: > A group of farmers from the Sioux City, Iowa, are have formed > a tractor square dance team. All members of the troupe drive > Farmall tractors - the "gals" on the 16 horsepower tractor; > and the "guys" on the 25 horsepower tractor. They dress > appropriately and seem to have manuevers for do-si-dos and > allemande. > How amny years of Federation Square Dance lessons does it take before you can drive a tractor?? Andy in PDX __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:17:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 03:20:40 -0500 From: simonl-AT- accel.net (Simon Ladell) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Historic music style To: Playford Message-ID: <397FF0D8.6A29F969-AT- accel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi. I'm a new member delurking with a question. Are there any books/resources available that discuss historical performance of Playford type music? I'm thinking of things like instrumentation, style, ornamentation, variation, etc. Most of the info I've found seems to treat the music as pretty static; a score or an arrangement, everybody turn to page 6, we'll all play from 'A' on the beat. I'm exaggerating, but I'm sure that, historically, the barest minimum of players would have had the slightest use for a score. I suppose the analogy I am following is with Irish music. There is a huge amount of knowledge about the how of playing Irish music which cannot be found in the pages of O'Neill's, and only came to us, live, in the tradition. Has anyone attempted to gather what information survives about country dance music and musicians. I suppose I should look for books on 17th and 18th century popular music performance in England in general; there can't have been a difference. Simon -- The King doth wake tonight and takes his rouse, Keeps wassail, and the swagg'ring upspring reels. Hamlet I iv 8-11 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:01:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:01:08 +0100 From: Dr Paul Davis Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Bare Necessities in London To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <1D1A4EF7AD4DD211A80D00A0C9D7DB6603B32998-AT- exna1.stratus.com> Could anyone tell me when the Bare Necessities dance is this weekend at Cecil Sharpe House? Paul ------------------- Dr Paul Davis paul.davis-AT- oucs.ox.ac.uk 01865 283414 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:03:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:05:10 +0100 From: Alan Williams Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Bare Necessities in London To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 7 p. m. Saturday 29 August. Kind regards Alan -----Original Message----- From: Dr Paul Davis [SMTP:paul.davis-AT- computing-services.oxford.ac.uk] Sent: 27 July 2000 08:04 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: Bare Necessities in London Could anyone tell me when the Bare Necessities dance is this weekend at Cecil Sharpe House? Paul ------------------- Dr Paul Davis paul.davis-AT- oucs.ox.ac.uk 01865 283414 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:21:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 09:20:50 +0100 From: Eldridge Keith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Bare Necessities in London To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > 7 p. m. Saturday 29 August. That is August spelt J-U-L-Y This Saturday, 29th July 2000. I can't be there :-( as I'm calling for a wedding. Say Hi to them from me. Regards Elmo -- --Keith Elmo Eldridge --Manchester, England --elmo-AT- opsis.cix.co.uk Keith.Eldridge-AT- labsystems.com --Flying Clouds Contra - American Contra Dancing in north-west England --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Opsis/contra.htm --I am, therefore I dance. I dance therefore I am. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:44:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000727154500.8726.qmail-AT- web1602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- FLORA J JOSEPHS wrote: > This seems to imply the change > occurred in the early 1800's. I suspect it was part of changing > from ECD > formality to contra fun. This statement is puzzling to me - Are you saying that rights and lefts is a less fun figure than right and left through? How so? ===== Do you know about the Hunger Site? Sponsors of the hunger site donate money to the United Nations World Food Programme for every visitor to the site. No purchases - all you do is click on the site. Visit http://www.thehungersite.com to help fight world hunger. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 14:16:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 19:19:52 +0100 From: Trevor Monson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002601bff7f7$b2ac91e0$cd8701d4-AT- trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20000725234933.17677.qmail-AT- web3305.mail.yahoo.com> Answering Andy - who wants it to be uniform?! Part of the joy of ECD is the difference between how the same dance is danced at different times - how the musicians interpret the music, and who you are dancing with - both partner and the rest of the set. If you want uniformity, try a RSCDS (Royal Scottish Country Dance Society) dance or class where, I think, wherever you dance a dance, it is their intention that it will be danced exactly the same anywhere in the world.. Some Scottish dancers that I have introduced to English dancing, after getting past their initial shock of discovering it is not as easy to walk as it looks, admit that they cannot understand how we dance a bit of a phrase, and maybe walk the end etc., with nobody telling them how many steps to dance and how many to walk, how to time this correctly, and how we dance to "funny" length phrases. So, let's not try and make everything uniform. (Also, please do not interpret the above as a criticism against Scottish dancing as it isn't meant to be - I go Scottish dancing as well - and enjoy it!) Trevor Monson ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Peterson To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 12:49 AM Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through > --- Benjamin Stein wrote: > > Traditional dancing was not uniform in days of difficult > > communication. > > > > It isn't even uniform now... It all depends on the caller and > what they learned from their teachers. > > Andy in Portland OR > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 18:59:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 21:59:17 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Historic music style To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 7/27/00 7:17:59 AM, simonl-AT- accel.net writes: << Hi. I'm a new member delurking with a question. Are there any books/resources available that discuss historical performance of Playford type music? I'm thinking of things like instrumentation, style, ornamentation, variation, etc. Most of the info I've found seems to treat the music as pretty static; a score or an arrangement, everybody turn to page 6, we'll all play from 'A' on the beat. I'm exaggerating, but I'm sure that, historically, the barest minimum of players would have had the slightest use for a score. >> This isn't actually responsive to your query, but there is a music "style point" I would be interested in hearing some expert opinion on. Specifically, in "Sun Assembly" - first measure - there are two "little" notes written in the sheet music, at least as written in Barnes. Peter has them written as grace notes, that is, small notes with a little line through them, implying that they are "short apoggiaturas," played quickly and before the beat: da-DUH da-DUH. Genny Shimer's book has them written as large notes, equal to the other quarter notes in the measure, making them sound on the beat with the accent actually on those notes: DA-duh DA-duh. I have never made a very formal study of 17th and 18th Century music styling, but from my days of violin lessons and playing string quartets, a few "rules" come to mind: 1) if there is no line through the "little note," it is a "long apoggiatura," to be played on the beat with accentuation as if it were the note written on the beat - that is, as Genny Shimer's book writes this particular measure; 2) apoggiaturas are NOT optional: they are to be played, and played the same way every time they come up in a given performance; 3) transcription errors abound - the lines through the notes could have been added or inadvertantly missed in later redactions. I bring this particular example up because I have heard it played by excellent musicians, including on two fine recent recordings, as if these little notes were grace notes, left out entirely, as long appogiaturas and as something in between, differently in different iterations on the same recording. To my ear, the long apoggiatura sounds right, sounds like the music of the period, and should be played every time through. Does anyone actually KNOW what is correct, or have reason to believe differently? Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:21:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:20:47 +0100 From: Hugh Stewart Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39815E7F.48FD69BC-AT- ugsolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <001001bf3d25$9ef67720$84989fd4-AT- trevormo> Someone has complained (probably correctly) that I have spelt the name of a certain figure wrongly. Before I run around correcting this mistake can anyone give me a definitive spelling? I don't know whether I trust an American to spell English dance terms correctly, but Merriam-Webster says Poussette, derived from the French pousser - to push. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:53:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:52:56 +0100 (BST) From: KR Hallam Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The on-line OED says "poussette" too, with no alternatives. Keith ---- Dr. Keith R. Hallam University of Bristol, Interface Analysis Centre, Oldbury House, 121, St. Michael's Hill, Bristol, BS2 8BS, England Telephone: + 44(0)117 925 5666 | e-mail: k.r.hallam-AT- bristol.ac.uk Facsimile: + 44(0)117 925 5646 | URL: http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~phkrh/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:34:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:40:57 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Historic music style To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000728104057.007efeb0-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Gosh this is interesting. I was a music major in college (cello) and what you say about long appoggiaturas is true. Since back then they were regarded as "wrong" notes that clash with the chord, it was a notational convention to write them as grace notes, but to play them as real notes, on the beat, with equal value to the note they resolve to. The first measure of Sun Assembly passage would have been PLAYED as quarter note and 6 eighth notes, even though it is WRITTEN as 3 quarter notes (two of them with grace notes) and 2 eighth notes. Barnes writes it as it was in the original, assuming that musicians will know the convention and play them correctly. The Playford Ball book writes them as they were meant to be played. I feel the latter is more useful. Just as both authors rewrote the minims and quavers into modern music notation, just as those funny "f" letters are rewritten as "s" since that's how they were pronounced, the appogiaturas should be written as they are meant to be played so that musicians who don't have a music history background will know what the tune-maker intended. HOWEVER: We expect dance musicians to improvise on the melody, to add notes, subtract notes, invent obligatto parts, and to find myriad ways to make the music sound completely different every time it is played. This is why we love them-- the 2 millionth time they play Hambleton's Round O they will find something new in it they never found before, play it so imaginatively that the dancers will wake up and dance even more beautifully. Even a musician aware of the convention of how to play these appoggiaturas will not always do them, just as they will not play all the other notes in the score all the time. On the third hand, I think its important that you brought this to everyone's attention, since many musicians aren't aware that those notes are melody notes, that they were intedned to be played and were not optional or ornamental. Its part of having an accurate score as a starting point for the improvisations. Victoria Bestock At 09:59 PM 7/27/2000 -0400, you wrote: > >In a message dated 7/27/00 7:17:59 AM, simonl-AT- accel.net writes: > ><< Hi. I'm a new member delurking with a question. Are there any >books/resources available that discuss historical performance of >Playford type music? I'm thinking of things like instrumentation, style, >ornamentation, variation, etc. Most of the info I've found seems to >treat the music as pretty static; a score or an arrangement, everybody >turn to page 6, we'll all play from 'A' on the beat. I'm exaggerating, >but I'm sure that, historically, the barest minimum of players would >have had the slightest use for a score. >> > >This isn't actually responsive to your query, but there is a music "style >point" I would be interested in hearing some expert opinion on. Specifically, >in "Sun Assembly" - first measure - there are two "little" notes written in >the sheet music, at least as written in Barnes. Peter has them written as >grace notes, that is, small notes with a little line through them, implying >that they are "short apoggiaturas," played quickly and before the beat: >da-DUH da-DUH. Genny Shimer's book has them written as large notes, equal to >the other quarter notes in the measure, making them sound on the beat with >the accent actually on those notes: DA-duh DA-duh. I have never made a very >formal study of 17th and 18th Century music styling, but from my days of >violin lessons and playing string quartets, a few "rules" come to mind: 1) if >there is no line through the "little note," it is a "long apoggiatura," to be >played on the beat with accentuation as if it were the note written on the >beat - that is, as Genny Shimer's book writes this particular measure; 2) >apoggiaturas are NOT optional: they are to be played, and played the same way >every time they come up in a given performance; 3) transcription errors >abound - the lines through the notes could have been added or inadvertantly >missed in later redactions. I bring this particular example up because I have >heard it played by excellent musicians, including on two fine recent >recordings, as if these little notes were grace notes, left out entirely, as >long appogiaturas and as something in between, differently in different >iterations on the same recording. To my ear, the long apoggiatura sounds >right, sounds like the music of the period, and should be played every time >through. Does anyone actually KNOW what is correct, or have reason to believe >differently? > >Carl Friedman > > Check out our WEB site, at http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/ Read about our trip to the Rockies..... See the portfolio from Northwest New Year's Camp..... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:50:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:49:57 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Historic music style To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000101bff8c4$9ff2c830$f4981c3f-AT- MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, Simon, you wrote: "I suppose I should look for books on 17th and 18th century popular music performance in England in general ..." Unless some Early Music folks weigh in with an authoritative response, that would seem to be the best approach if you want a definitive answer. I play Early Music and baroque and pretty much use those performance practices in playing Playford tunes, but I'm not an authority on the subject. Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:43:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:39:54 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Historic music style To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000728.174000.-998655.8.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This opens the proverbial can of worms, Simon, but here goes... Probably the most readable, usable, relevant and coherent source for musical performance practice of the time is "Baroque Music: Style and Performance Handbook" by Robert Donington [W.W. Norton & Co], $16.95 in paperback. This is a manual intended for performers, distilled from Donington's authoritative treatise "The Interpretation of Early Music" (updated from its original publication, BTW, to incorporate recent research and trends). The Handbook quotes numerous original sources as necessary (in a very readable manner, without oppressive scholarly apparatus), includes treatment of dance forms, and offers extensive bibliographies (primary and secondary sources) and indices. Simon is probably right that instrumentalists of the time did indeed improvise extensively. It was an essential aspect of the Baroque performing aesthetic, and a natural consequence of playing dance music (the same tune over and over again). As for the appoggiaturas ("grace notes," literally "leaning" note) in Sun Assembly... they represent the end of a trend starting in the early Baroque to lengthen the note. By the middle of the 18th century (Sun Assembly was published in 1751) we have Joachim Quantz writing in Berlin, 1752: "Hold the appoggiatura half the length of the main note..." Others (Geminiani in London 1751, Galliard in London 1741, C.P.E. Bach in Berlin 1753) writing the same thing. BUT (and there is *always* a "but" in Baroque performance practice) the "short" appoggiatura or grace note may also be used "at the discretion of the performer," (Geminiani) a phrase often found in the treatises. So the Keller & Shimer transcription has it literally correct, but... :-) There were many "musts" in Baroque performance practice (rules for shaping lines, ornamenting cadences, altering noted rhythms, managing proportions in tempo, among several others) that one ignores at one's peril, but an important element was always individual freedom in the context of a deep understanding of the prevailing style. Foremost in the style was expressiveness (those arid, mechanistic "authentic Baroque" performances of the 1960's were way off the mark). The music was always meant to communicate something, and the message in the Baroque era is as much the perfomer's as the composer's. So what do we do with historical dance tunes in the 21st century? Well, the way we do the dances has little to do with historical dance practices, and so we're not obligated to adhere to the musical performance practices to any greater degree, IMHO. But we should at least be aware of them and respect them (as we must with the dance as well), use what we can, discard what we must, and not blindly run roughshod over essential ideas. For me, enjoyment of this genre is based on the beauty and expressiveness of the musical line (a *very* Baroque idea), the flow and ingenuity of the music and dance figures, and the freedom to add individual musical and choreographic touches (musical ornaments and counter melodies; extra turns, steps or partner acknowledgements, for example). All of this is in concord with the essence of mid-17th-C. to mid-18th-C. historical style. No, we don't do pas de bourree steps, or ornament every cadence (both historically "correct") but those stylistic practices were in service to the superior goal of communication. As long as we can formulate a coherent message that moves our contemporary audience of dancers (literally and figuratively), that is formed with respect and love for the historical period, that doesn't wantonly conflict with the essential elements of historical practice and style, that we execute well through practice and care, then we are doing justice to the composer, the choreographer, and our present company. Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Caller, Musician and keeper of the essential faith ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:28:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 16:28:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: when did rights & lefts change to right & left through To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000728232826.4767.qmail-AT- web3304.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Trevor Monson wrote: > Answering Andy - who wants it to be uniform?! I was only reflecting on Ben's comment about the influences of difficult communication. At this moment in history we can watch live incidents on TV that 100 years ago the news of which would have taken weeks to travel any distance. If a person wants to know the "right" way to do something they can ask an e-mail group like this and probably get ten or fifteen differing opinions of what is "right" in a matter of minutes. 100 years ago that wasn't possible so they figured out their own way and that became the "right" way for anyone who learned from them. That's why we all have different opinions now, because we interpret what we learned as the "right" way. > If you want uniformity, try a RSCDS (Royal Scottish Country > Dance Society) dance or class where, I think, wherever you > dance a dance, it is their intention that it will be danced > exactly the same anywhere in the world. Been there, done with that. ...and heaven forbid that you should do it the "wrong" way at an RSCDS dance. > Some Scottish dancers that I have introduced to English > dancing, after getting past their initial shock of discovering > it is not as easy to walk as it looks, To paraphrase: An article by Douglas Kennedy from the late 40's was reprinted in the CDS Magazine a few years ago in which he commented that if you started a group of beginners walking in a circle they did fine, but as soon as you started playing the music to accompany that walk, they loose all ability to walk. > ...admit that they cannot understand how we dance a bit of a > phrase, and maybe walk the end etc., One of the true beauties of ECD for me is the variation of skipping a phrase and walking another. Even though the musicians are playing a rock solid beat, varying the type of step used gives the feeling of faster and slower passages in the dance. > ...with nobody telling them how many steps to dance and how > many to walk, how to time this correctly, and how we dance to > "funny" length phrases. I've found that International dancers have even more problem with this, as being on the correct foot seems to be *the* most important thing in line dances. That makes me have to think too hard. > So, let's not try and make everything uniform. (Also, please > do not interpret the above as a criticism against Scottish > dancing as it isn't meant to be - I go Scottish dancing as well > - and enjoy it!) > I just find the Scottish turn-out very unnatural and uncomfortable, and yet it doesn't seem to bother me in Vintage dancing. I can very much enjoy an evening of mixed Scottish and English. I remember years ago at the annual business meeting of RSCDS-Boston Center there was a decision made to no longer support the annual English-Scottish Ball "because the English and Scottish dancers don't mix." About six couples who did both looked at each other in disbelief of that statement. Marianne Taylor got up and told them that they were "all a bunch of snobs" to think that way. At that time I had been regularly driving down from New Hampshire to English in Boston and had met my future (now former) wife, who was regularly going to Scottish, at that ball. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:51:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:28:46 +0100 From: Trevor Monson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <006701bff8d1$cb27cde0$649501d4-AT- trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hugh, The "Community Dance Manual Books 1-7" which I think was originally published by EFDSS but was later re-issued with new bits, including a Glossary by Tony Parkes (who I presume is American, but please correct me if I am wrong) spells it (in this Glossary) as Pousette. As the book/s were printed/reprinted in 1949, 54, 57, 64 and 67 by EFDSS and in 1986 by Princeton Book Co, NJ 08542, and by EFDSS again in 1991(according to the book) I presume by the numbers printed quite a few people will be using the spelling Pousette! (I haven't looked at any other books yet, and don't really intend to). And there again, as we are using a derivation of a foreign word, did they get it right in the first place?? Trevor Monson PS. The spell checker has just suggested I change Pousette to Peseta - ah well! back to the drawing board! (Or is that bringing Spanish into the equation?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:14:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 21:14:26 -0500 From: Mike Mudrey Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000728211151.00a864a0-AT- mail.mhtc.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_OCUTP/Cys1qECENK9ZIqOA)" --Boundary_(ID_OCUTP/Cys1qECENK9ZIqOA) Content-type: text/plain Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >Trevor Monson > >PS. The spell checker has just suggested I change Pousette to Peseta - >ah well! back to the drawing board! (Or is that bringing Spanish into >the equation?) Not only Spanish, but lot of stranger things! My spell checker (Word Perfect 8) pousette = Paulette poussette = Paced !! Mike Mudrey 106 Ravine Road Mount Horeb, WI53572-1930 608-437-3701 mgmudrey-AT- madison.tds.net --Boundary_(ID_OCUTP/Cys1qECENK9ZIqOA) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Trevor Monson

PS.  The spell checker has just suggested I change Pousette to Peseta -
ah well! back to the drawing board!  (Or is that bringing Spanish into
the equation?)

Not only Spanish, but lot of stranger things!

My spell checker (Word Perfect 8)    pousette  = Paulette
                                                 poussette = Paced

!!


Mike Mudrey
106 Ravine Road
Mount Horeb, WI53572-1930
608-437-3701

mgmudrey-AT- madison.tds.net
--Boundary_(ID_OCUTP/Cys1qECENK9ZIqOA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:51:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:38:43 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Here's who uses "poussette": Cecil Sharp's ~The Country Dance Book~ Keller and Shimer's ~The Playford Ball~ The French spelling ("Poussette" is a well-formed, legitimate French word unto itself) The CDSS, in the 1993 book ~Gems~ American Heritage New College Edition Dictionary (1978) Random House Unabridged (1986) Mirriam-Webster Eudora 4.3's built-in spell checker. and "pousette": ~The Community Dance Manual~, both in Tony Parkes' Glossary, and in at least one of the dances (I checked Foula Reel). What do the British English dictionaries say? At 8:28 PM +0100, on 7/28/00, Trevor Monson wrote: >Hugh, > >The "Community Dance Manual Books 1-7" which I think was originally >published by EFDSS but was later re-issued with new bits, including a >Glossary by Tony Parkes (who I presume is American, but please correct >me if I am wrong) spells it (in this Glossary) as Pousette. > >As the book/s were printed/reprinted in 1949, 54, 57, 64 and 67 by >EFDSS and in 1986 by Princeton Book Co, NJ 08542, and by EFDSS again in >1991(according to the book) I presume by the numbers printed quite a >few people will be using the spelling Pousette! (I haven't looked at >any other books yet, and don't really intend to). >And there again, as we are using a derivation of a foreign word, did >they get it right in the first place?? > >Trevor Monson > >PS. The spell checker has just suggested I change Pousette to Peseta - >ah well! back to the drawing board! (Or is that bringing Spanish into >the equation?) -- "Come dancing, it's only natural." -- Ray Davies Gary Shapiro ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 23:50:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 01:45:28 -0500 From: Paul Stamler Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <005b01bff928$9646e5a0$3b98adce-AT- pstamler> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <4.3.1.2.20000728211151.00a864a0-AT- mail.mhtc.net> <> !! indeed. WordPerfect 5.1's spell checker, still my favorite, lists (for both pousette and poussette): paced passed pasted paucity paused peseta pieced poised posed posit posted Okay, poets, there's your word list. Peace. Paul Mike Mudrey 106 Ravine Road Mount Horeb, WI53572-1930 608-437-3701 mgmudrey-AT- madison.tds.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 03:16:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 06:19:00 -0500 From: simonl-AT- accel.net (Simon Ladell) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3982BDA3.F1C57981-AT- accel.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: "Gary D. Shapiro" wrote: > What do the British English dictionaries say? > The Shorter OED has "poussette". 1812 is the date given for the earliest appearance (in print) in English of the word in a country dance context. The hilarious thing is that the etymology is given as "from prec.", i.e., from the preceding definition, which was "poussette", (a little push), a word which had it's earliest appearance in 1814! Simon -- The King doth wake tonight and takes his rouse, Keeps wassail, and the swagg'ring upspring reels. Hamlet I iv 8-11 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:43:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:43:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000729164334.8768.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT somebody wrote wrote: > > < to Peseta - > ah well! back to the drawing board! (Or is that bringing > Spanish into > the equation?) > The Yahoo spell checker wants to change Pousette to Poussette, but it highlights Peseta with no suggested replacement. It wants to change Paul's domain name from "atdial" to atrial. Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 09:55:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 17:59:05 +0100 From: howard-AT- hgmitchell.fsnet.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pousette or Poussette? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: