Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 02:27:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:27:09 +0100 From: Hugh Stewart Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Newcastle To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39362C6D.E6158D43-AT- ugsolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Barbara Carter wrote: > > Could someone point me toward a detailed description of the steps > to Newcastle? We tried to dance it using Playford's original > directions, and had some difficulties deciding how far around to > circle when doing the star, and how many times to side/arm while > progressing. It didn't seem to fit the music very well. > > Thanks! > > Barbara Carter > bcarter-AT- cfa.harvard.edu See http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/round/dances/palmer.htm#Newcastle for a brief description of the standard (Cecil Sharp) interpretation ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 06:02:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 08:00:03 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000601.080020.-817839.8.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 09:10:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 17:01:01 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ANNOUNCE: Friends of Globe Theatre Sun June 4, London UK To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Michael Barraclough (dance) and Ian Gatiss (Baroque Fiddle) will be providing an Introduction to the Basic Principles of Seventeenth & Eighteenth Century English Country Dance, details as follows: Sunday 4 June 11am - 4.30pm (register from 10.30 am) Bankside House (adjacent to the new Tate Gallery Modern, Globe Theatre etc) Ample parking Bring your own lunch (cofee/tea available) Further details from Shirley Newton 020 8698 6268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Patricia Ruggiero Sent: 31 May 2000 19:15 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: RE: Newcastle The Playford Ball (Keller and Shimer) has the music, Cecil Sharp's reconstruction, and the original instructions. Pat -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Barbara Carter Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2000 1:34 PM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: Newcastle Could someone point me toward a detailed description of the steps to Newcastle? We tried to dance it using Playford's original directions, and had some difficulties deciding how far around to circle when doing the star, and how many times to side/arm while progressing. It didn't seem to fit the music very well. Thanks! Barbara Carter bcarter-AT- cfa.harvard.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:38:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:36:48 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Potholes on the Information Superhighway To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000601.123658.-817839.11.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry about the inadvertent private reply to Loretta going to the public list, and blank Newcastle reply (I have nothing to add :-) ). Trying some experiments with new features of the ol' email program. Of course now there's this 3rd spurious email. Reminds me of Peter Barnes' routine after he accidently swears loudly when his microphone is still turned on... He splutters "Oh f*ck, I just said sh*t into the microphone!" Or when I teach, and someone blurts out "Gene, can I ask you a question?" I usually reply "You just did, the proper request is 'Gene, can I ask you 2 questions?'" Basta! Gene ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Permanent address: - for your Address book ISP of the moment: - "Reply" button destination ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 12:09:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 15:10:40 -0400 From: "Michael J. O'Connor" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Potholes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000f01bfcbfd$13e80380$0fdca4d8-AT- oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <20000601.123658.-817839.11.gmurrow-AT- juno.com> And, of course, the proper reply to "Do you know what the name of this dance is?" is "Yes" (or "No," as the case may be). ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 23:01:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:00:45 -0400 (EDT) From: HARVBCOHEN-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Joint English American Parties To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6d.495b176.2668a78d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I know that this is an English dance forum BUT some of us in Boston would like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful joint dance party that was a mixture of both English and New England style dancing. At this time we are two very distinct factions, English and Contra with less and less cross over. In order to revive the joint party tradition, I would think that there would have to be some changes in each of the factions. We do not want to break what is now working. We need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle changes before we can pull off the first event. What thoughts do have about this and what things would you do? Twenty years ago both factions included the same Pat Shaw material. For our first event, our first reaction is we should have a single caller/leader that is known by both factions. That might be one task. I would think we would need to have it in a hall that both factions have been using. What dances or formations would you include or stay away from in the initial events? What are some other considerations that we would need to focus on? Most of us are members of CDSS which is English ( not just Playford) AND American (not just contras and Becketts) AND Ritual AND song. Cross over should be happening. I think that is goodness. Thank you, Harvey Cohen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:07:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 02:06:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JQ3Y810SLU96M4O4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Harvey Cohen writes: >I know that this is an English dance forum BUT some of us in Boston would >like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful >joint dance party that was a mixture of both English and New England style >dancing. At this time we are two very distinct factions, English and Contra >with less and less cross over. >In order to revive the joint party tradition, I would think that there would >have to be some changes in each of the factions. We do not want to break what >is now working. We need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle >changes before we can pull off the first event. What thoughts do have about >this and what things would you do? Twenty years ago both factions included >the same Pat Shaw material. [I think this was your first post on the ECD list. Welcome!] Out here in the SF Bay Area, we have a similar situation, with a lot of people who go to contra dances and never go to English dances, and distinctly fewer people who attend English dances regularly. Our Fall Dance Weekend - which I've managed or co-managed for the last ten years - has strong English and American programs (and ritual dance as well). The evening dance programs are always mixed. It's gotten to the point where attendees are mostly people who are interested in both genres, although we still sometimes get evaluations that complain about "too much English," usually about as many as say "too many squares." Some things we've learned about running high-energy, high-quality mixed dance parties at camp: 1) If you intermingle English and contra dances, it's hard to develop that contra high. (The "contra high" may have been less prevalent 20 years ago, when it wasn't quite so much everybody-active hyper-flowing contras, but that's what people expect now from a contra evening.) We've found that it works better to batch things into English sandwiched by American, or American sandwiched by English. (Since we have two evening dances and a farewell dance party, we can make the proportions work out fairly over the weekend.) 2) Minimize the time spent in band and sound changeovers. You don't want many long pauses. 3) Around here, you can figure that most English dancers are pretty good contra dancers, and you can call somewhat challenging contras. There is, however, a limit on the complexity of English dance you can get away with, especially when you want to avoid the dreaded 'more teaching than dancing'. The mixed contra-English party is the wrong place for "Cupid's Garden" or "Joy After Sorrow." (And even dances with simple figures may have challenges; people completely unused to dancing in 3/2 may have trouble with "Anna Maria.") >For our first event, our first reaction is we should have a single >caller/leader that is known by both factions. That might be one task. I would >think we would need to have it in a hall that both factions have been using. >What dances or formations would you include or stay away from in the initial >events? What are some other considerations that we would need to focus on? Here's some gross generalizations: Around here, contra dancers turn out for hot bands [although a caller they've had a bad experience with can keep them away] and English dancers turn out for hot callers. If that's true there, then you want the best bands possible. Book both Yankee Ingenuity and Bare Necessities, or book BLT for both parts, or some such. I don't think it's necessarily required to book a bilingual caller, although there are some good ones out there: Scott Higgs, Lisa Greenleaf, and Susan Kevra spring to mind. (Or you could just get Bob Dalsemer to come and do a mixture of singing squares, Danish country dances, and Appalachian Big Circle dances. Not what _anybody_ is used to any more, and loads of fun.) You really need warm fuzzy friendly but extremely lucid caller. You probably need not to violate too many expectations at once. Contra dancers aren't used to getting much instruction about dancing, and may get turned off if they get lectured about sloppiness. Make it really clear in the publicity that this is a mixed event. You'll still get some people who never get the word but you really have to do your best to get people who are prepared to at least put up with the other form being there. I think you're probably better off letting the caller pick the dances and formations. (But I'll spitball something anyway: I think this is an environment in which mixers followed by "keep this partner and form squares" or some such is a really good idea, since the evening won't be successful if the two different factions keep entirely to themselves. And you have to do Walpole Cottage if at least thirty people show up.) Rattling on: Why not advertise this a series of "special dances", and have one be, for example, "classic contras" with things like Sackett's Harbor? English dancers can get their complexity and variety; American dancers get contra dances. Mix with mixers like "Lucky 7" (which are neither English nor American, really); see how it goes. Good luck, and please report back. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:26:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:25:05 +0100 From: Eldridge Keith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Joint English American Parties To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" , ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Harvey Cohen < HARVBCOHEN-AT- aol.com > wrote: > I know that this is an English dance forum BUT some of us in > Boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have > a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both English and New > England style > dancing. At this time we are two very distinct factions, > English and Contra > with less and less cross over. Here in England we do this all the time. Many, probably most, clubs do a mixture of English and American (Contra) dances. The ratio is weighted towards the English, but ultimately depends on the caller. When I call for a club night (to recorded music) I tend to do about half and half. When working with a band it does depend on the band's repertoire. With a versatile band, you can call what you want and I like a variety dance styles, so that is what I call. Regards Elmo -- --Keith Elmo Eldridge --Manchester, England --elmo.eldridge-AT- totalise.co.uk Keith.Eldridge-AT- labsystems.com --Flying Clouds Contra - American Contra Dancing in north-west England --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Opsis/contra.htm --I am, therefore I dance. I dance therefore I am. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:26:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 17:25:05 +0100 From: Eldridge Keith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Joint English American Parties To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" , ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Harvey Cohen < HARVBCOHEN-AT- aol.com > wrote: > I know that this is an English dance forum BUT some of us in > Boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have > a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both English and New > England style > dancing. At this time we are two very distinct factions, > English and Contra > with less and less cross over. Here in England we do this all the time. Many, probably most, clubs do a mixture of English and American (Contra) dances. The ratio is weighted towards the English, but ultimately depends on the caller. When I call for a club night (to recorded music) I tend to do about half and half. When working with a band it does depend on the band's repertoire. With a versatile band, you can call what you want and I like a variety dance styles, so that is what I call. Regards Elmo -- --Keith Elmo Eldridge --Manchester, England --elmo.eldridge-AT- totalise.co.uk Keith.Eldridge-AT- labsystems.com --Flying Clouds Contra - American Contra Dancing in north-west England --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Opsis/contra.htm --I am, therefore I dance. I dance therefore I am. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 09:43:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:42:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 2 Jun 2000 Harvey Cohen wrote: > I know that this is an English dance forum BUT some of us in Boston would > like to try bring back the old days when we were able to have a successful > joint dance party that was a mixture of both English and New England style > dancing. At this time we are two very distinct factions, English and Contra > with less and less cross over. We are still doing this occasionally in Princeton, NJ: the program for PCD's Winter Cotillion (2nd Sunday in December) features a mixture of English and contra dances. All of the available local callers take turns, which does mean that we dance about 2/3 contras. Some of our contra callers have learned a few English dances and will call them on this occasion. The Princeton Country Dancers will try out a special mix of English and American dances next month: Wednesday, July 19 Caller: Scott Higgs Band: The Free Radicals Suzanne Patterson Center, behind Princeton Borough Hall & police station Monument Drive, near intersection of route 27 and 206 Princeton, NJ, USA Our hall is air conditioned, so don't let the heat and humidity keep you away. We welcome visiting dancers from out of town. Please inquire in advance if you need a place to stay. Check our website for more info. about PCD events: http://www.princetonol.com/groups/pcd/ --Susie Lorand PCD committee member & fiddler/recorder player in the Free Radicals ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:47:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:31:01 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JQ3Y810SLU96M4O4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> > Harvey Cohen writes: > > >In order to revive the joint party tradition, I would think that > there would >>have to be some changes in each of the factions. We do not want to break what >>is now working. We need to be gentle and it might take a year of subtle >>changes before we can pull off the first event. What thoughts do have about >>this and what things would you do? Twenty years ago both factions included > >the same Pat Shaw material. Alan wrote: > 1) If you intermingle English and contra dances, it's hard to develop that > contra high. (The "contra high" may have been less prevalent 20 years ago, > when it wasn't quite so much everybody-active hyper-flowing > contras, but that's what people expect now from a contra evening.) > We've found that it works better to batch things into English > sandwiched by American, or American > sandwiched by English. (Since we have two evening dances and a > farewell dance > party, we can make the proportions work out fairly over the weekend.) and also: > you want the best bands possible. Book both Yankee Ingenuity and > Bare Necessities, or book BLT for both parts, or some such. I'd like to throw in my own two cents. First of all, I think that Alan is dead on the money about that "contra high" thing. That is, that the absence of it, or perceived absence of an opportunity for it, will keep contra dancers away. Secondly, every now and then a contra dance caller and band slip an English dance in on Thursday at the contra dance. The "hotter" bands tend to go for a fairly strong alternation of fast and slow numbers, with good reason, and sometimes one of the slow numbers is actually an English Dance, that can be danced either as a slow contra or as a normal tempo ECD. Sometimes, these dances speed up again later, and sometimes they don't. This is not something that happens all that often, but the fact that they get away with it is encouraging and leads me to think that the secret is not to tell the dancers what they're doing... Finally, a local note: Yankee Ingenuity? Bare Necessities? Fine bands, among the best in the world, but THEY PLAY EVERY WEEK. They live here. I don't think that they'd be that much of a special draw. On the other hand, if they're interested, I think that they'd be great for this experiment, just because of the overlap in members - rather than having two separate bands switching off, we could have one sort of uber-band, playing both types of material, with members switching on and off stage. On the other hand, there are lots of other bands that play both types of material as well. I think it would be better to have one band playing both types of material, with one caller, and slip the ECD in as replacements for "slow" contras to let people recover after a high-energy contra. What day of the week is a bigger hassle, though, in my opinion. I think that you can't easily do it on a Thursday without alienating some of the regular dancers, and ditto for trying it on a Wednesday, with the added downside of not being likely to pull in contra dancers on a wednesday. Some Friday might work, or if YI really likes the idea and wants to adopt it, I think that a Monday might work. One of CDS's 5th Saturday dances might also work, especially as they are already being used as an opportunity to experiment, but of course you'd have to get the organizer on board, you can't just co-opt her dance... Well, I guess that's six cents worth. One last thing -- it sounds like a fun time to me! --Mike Bergman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:23:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:38:11 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan and Michael both refer to "that contra high". Gentlemen, define your terms, please! best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:27:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT further to my earlier shameless plug about PCD's upcoming english & american evening with scott higgs (july 19, princeton, NJ), i've been told that i gave the date & place but not the time. it's 8-10:30 p.m. (beginners' workshop, if needed, at 7:40 p.m.). i also forgot to explain that the wednesday night dance is usually contra but occasionally english, so it's actually logistically quite simple for us to plan a mixed evening - apart from finding the right caller and band, that is. cheers, susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:39:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 12:38:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JQ4JQAGS7M95VDHA-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Terry writes: Alan and Michael both refer to "that contra high". Gentlemen, define your terms, please! Gross oversimplification: An endorphin rush. Take "contra" in the rest of this argument as "contemporary urban US contra." Contra is about the joy of ceaseless motion to exciting music in an extremely narrow emotional range. Choreographic innovations are almost invariably in the service of flow and motion. Contra has traded variety for intensity. At a successful contra dance, the dancers collect energy from each other and from the music, master the sequence for an individual dance very quickly, hit a groove and stay in it for, oh, 17 or 20 repeats. The dancers hearts beat faster, they sweat, and they may trance out, achieving a Zenlike mindlessness while still participating fully in the dance. Since they rarely stop moving, they rarely have to think about what comes next - the flow of the dance moves them along. [And this helps to produce an unwelcoming attitude to newcomers or slow learners. The Zen flow only works if people are where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there. That helps to produce center set syndrome, although I gather that isn't universal.] Enjoying or appreciating this doesn't inherently prohibit enjoying other kinds of dances, even enjoying them more, but being addicted to this makes it hard to appreciate any other kind of dance, especially ones that require intellectual exertion. (Thus, I think, some of the anti-square sentiment we also see.) [It appears that in the Brit folk scene now, the function of contra dances is fulfilled by ceilidh dances. The joy of motion may be joy of stepping, but they're similar in having simple dances to really exciting, eclectic, propulsive music. One participant on the eceilidh mailing list talks about 'tantric' dancing, which - if I understand him right - is what I'm talking about above on the contra high. Incidentally, when Wild Asparagus went to Sidmouth, the ceilidh dancers _loved_ them.] There aren't that many joy-of-motion EC dances, and most of those are unequal: Hambleton's Round O, Jack's Health, Female Saylor, Dublin Bay, Trip to Kilbourne, maybe Prince William - how many others? ECD has to some extent traded intensity for variety. Different meters of music, different tempi, different moods, different formations, different stepping, different aesthetics, and occasional timing or pattern challenges. A lot of good ECD engages the intellect more than contra dance does. We also tend not to run as many repeats of each dance once we have it. This works for the people it works for - among whom I certainly include myself - but it is nearly antithetical to the production of the contra high. (The closest I've gotten to that in ECD was late nights at dance camps where the band played ECD favorites we all or mostly knew and could do without calling or with only brief reminders, and we could just do them - and it wasn't very close.) English has other kinds of peaks - I've had a Bare Necessities where I just wanted to marry all five other people and take them home, and I wouldn't trade a good Miss de Jersey's for the best contra medley I've ever danced - but these don't mix and match well with the contra high I mentioned earlier. [Vanessa, looking over my shoulder, remarks that there are some ECdances that produce the "joy of slow motion", a meditative trance rather than a vigorous trance. For example, Irish Lamentation, Fair & Softly, Bare Necessities. She remarks further that she's had very few peak dance experiences in contra, but remembers fondly a number of ECD peaks - and that ECD provides endorphin highs with more texture and contrast. "My designer drug is ECD."] --Alan -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:57:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:56:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Orly Krasner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000602205645.60437.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, All! Alan just referred to the "joy of slow motion," which prompted me to recall a recent ECD-high. It was an autumnal Fried Herman workshop at which she taught Colin Hume's "Muriel's Measure." We danced it at a tempo slow enough that Colin would have approved. It's not easy controlling one's body gracefully at that speed, but OH MY did those "up a doubles" feel GOOD! OTOH, I've also had the occasional "contra high." To me, there's another difference between the two types of euphoria. I tend to remember contra highs as a self-centered event. The ECD highs, more often, have other people involved in the memory of them. It's something else I treasure about dancing. --Orly Krasner okrasner-AT- hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:04:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:04:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JQ4OQGWF2Q95SVR0-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Orly wrote: Alan just referred to the "joy of slow motion," which prompted me to recall a recent ECD-high. Actually, I was quoting Vanessa, who was standing over my shoulder at the time. Credit where credit is due. This all gives me an excuse to mention that I called Orly's dance, "Evergreen", at the San Jose ECD just this Wednesday, to very good response. This dance manages to combine a flowy feel with enough intellectual activity to keep ECDers interested. Swell dance! > OTOH, I've also had the occasional "contra high." To me, there's another >difference between the two types of euphoria. I tend to remember contra >highs as a self-centered event. The ECD highs, more often, have other >people involved in the memory of them. It's something else I treasure about >dancing. I think I subscribe to this. The contra high may leave me with a generally warm feeling about everybody in the room; the ECD peak tends to involve a specific group of other people. (I think it's hard to bond with everybody in a longways for as many as will, but that epoxy can really stick in - to mention some dances where I've felt peaks - "Bare Necessities", "Fandango", "Heidenroslein". In a longways that bonding is likelier to be experienced as (at least temporarily) falling in love with your partner; I can think of recent cases of doing that in "Miss de Jersey's." -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:11:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 01:10:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000603081046.20964.qmail-AT- web3306.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing > > [...The Zen flow only works if people are where they're > supposed to be > when they're supposed to be there. Many contra dancers don't understand the relationship between the music and the dance (mainly because it's never been explained to them). Their timing is off and they are *never* where they are supposed to be except by chance. Mike Richardson called a Contra to a slip-jig (which is in 9/8 time) Sunday evening at Northwest Folklife. It really threw a lot of the people in my set, despite Mike explaining how the timing worked. The next active man down the line from me was never in the right place and I got kicked and stepped on a couple times. The crowning insult was when we collided and I actually felt a snap in my lower back that I cannot remember ever feeling before in 35 years of dancing. I sat out a dance to assess the damage. It seems to be all right, but I remember thinking at the time that if I couldn't move in the morning I was staying at the right house. I was part of the mob staying at Frank Clayton's house. The biggest difference I have observed between Folklife and NEFFA is that Folklife is held at Seattle Center (the old World's Fair grounds) which is a very public place whereas NEFFA is held at a remote site where the people attending are there specifically for that event. The result is a very high caliber of dancing at NEFFA and a high number of new-or-non-dancers who just happened to wander by the doors of the dance pavilion at Folklife. Although it is a great way to expose what we do to new blood, the Roadhouse at Folklife can be a very dangerous place to dance. The ECD session that Nan Evens called on Monday was very good, not crowded and presented some dances with enough difficulty that it challenged people. For the most part they proved up to the challenge. It was interesting to note the look on the faces of the Contra dancers when she called for a hey for three. Most of them have never thought that you could do a hey with anything other than four people. > That helps to produce > center set syndrome, > although I gather that isn't universal.] > Have you ever noticed that even if there are only two sets one of them is the center set and remains there unless the caller specifically tells them to move over?? > > ...ECD has to > some extent > traded intensity for variety. Different meters of music, > different tempi, > different moods, different formations, different stepping, > different > aesthetics, and occasional timing or pattern challenges. A > lot of good ECD > engages the intellect more than contra dance does. > The variety is, in my opinion, the exact reason that many people claim not to like ECD (although there are many English dances that you could do and they would never know they were English). With ECDs variety they have to think more about it. Contra dancers don't want to have to think. Andy in Portland __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 06:55:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 14:54:28 +0100 From: Eldridge Keith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Joint English American Parties To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Michael Bergman < eclectic-AT- mit.edu > wrote : > Finally, a local note: Yankee Ingenuity? Bare Necessities? Fine > bands, among the best in the world, but THEY PLAY EVERY WEEK. They > live here. I don't think that they'd be that much of a special draw. They are a special draw to me. I can feel the pull from 3000 miles away. If only the Atlantic wasn't in the way, I'd be there every week :-) Regards Elmo -- --Keith Elmo Eldridge --Manchester, England --elmo.eldridge-AT- totalise.co.uk Keith.Eldridge-AT- labsystems.com --Flying Clouds Contra - American Contra Dancing in north-west England --http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Opsis/contra.htm --I am, therefore I dance. I dance therefore I am. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 10:35:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 12:34:10 From: Phil D'Agostino Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.20000603123410.30a7b6d2-AT- mum.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston wrote: >This all gives me an excuse to mention that I called Orly's dance, >"Evergreen", at the San Jose ECD just this Wednesday, to very good response. >This dance manages to combine a flowy feel with enough intellectual activity >to keep ECDers interested. Swell dance! *** If I may stick my nose in here briefly...I've been reading a few messages lately about Orly Krasner's dances ( she apparently has written more than a few..). Are they published anywhere? Phil D'Agostino ( Fairfield, Iowa ECD dancers) >=========================================================================== ==== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 >=========================================================================== ==== > > > Phil D'Agostino Systems Engineering-Dept. of Communcations Maharishi University of Management Fairfield, Iowa 52557 515-472-7000 x2001 515-472-1137(Fax) 515-472-1228 Box 1000 (voice Mail) phild-AT- mum.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 11:45:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 14:44:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfelinda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #746 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <17.66bc020.266aac07-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm with Orly! Also, seem to recall in an earlier digest on this subject someone saying contra pulled in more people. That puzzled me, as I understand that in New York contra has been losing money, while English is making it. What is New York doing right? Linda Wolfe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 14:03:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 23:01:36 +0200 From: Han Daamen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: list To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <39397230.A31DBFD6-AT- dse.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT SIGNOFF QUIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:50:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: MEIER-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JQ624QWO6A95Y0AS-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Orly wrote: >> OTOH, I've also had the occasional "contra high." To me, there's another >>difference between the two types of euphoria. I tend to remember contra >>highs as a self-centered event. The ECD highs, more often, have other >>people involved in the memory of them. It's something else I treasure about >>dancing. And Alan wrote: >I think I subscribe to this. The contra high may leave me with a generally >warm feeling about everybody in the room; the ECD peak tends to involve a >specific group of other people. (I think it's hard to bond with everybody >in a longways for as many as will, but that epoxy can really stick in - to >mention some dances where I've felt peaks - "Bare Necessities", "Fandango", >"Heidenroslein". In a longways that bonding is likelier to be experienced as >(at least temporarily) falling in love with your partner; I can think of >recent cases of doing that in "Miss de Jersey's." Hmmn....especially when I compare these two paragraphs I see that the distinction I make isn't really about "slow motion" per se, it's just that it's easier to get there in slower motion. Thinking even more, I realize it's a question of whether that "high" is more or less diffuse. That is, the spectrum narrows from an oceanic sense of moving with the room down to that tantric bond with a single dance partner. It's relatively easy to get a generalized oceanic feeling in a contra dance, where you've got a better than average chance of the music being right and the dance being right and people being able to sync up enough that you can feel the dancers breathing together. A flowy English country dance can achieve the same effect -- you either need a dance where people have time to match velocities, or don't have time to do anything else. As the group size shrinks it's harder to achieve that herd nirvana. Except maybe for late-night pickup dancing, as Alan mentioned -- people stop caring about dancing correctly and dance more to have fun, which means the dance itself gets better as dancers laugh it up. The late-night effect works for both ECD and contra. But the bond doesn't become truly mystical until the smaller set dances. This is why I like ECD at its best more than contra at its best. (Is there anyone out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) ECD provides more chances to really synchronize with your partner, so you can match not just velocities but what I'll call vibes. Many of the ECdances were written to fit their music, so the music provides synchronization cues and creates a specific mood. The particular virtue of slow motion is that the dancers have more time to match frequencies, especially as partners. The result is that within ECD you have a better chance of achieving the right combination of, shall we say, set, setting, and dose. Yours in the name of dance satori, Vanessa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:52:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 15:51:17 -0700 (PDT) From: MEIER-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Best Dances for Peak Experiences? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JQ66YQH18895Y0AS-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Some dances offer an easier path to enlightenment than others. I've heard several people cite Miss de Jersey's Memorial as a peak dance experience, for example. Miss de Jersey's Memorial is a gorgeous tune, slow but not too slow, and the music tells you what to do; the dance requires you to synchronize with your partner as much as possible, and it flows like crazy (except for that counterintuitive circle right, where most people have to stop and think for the first few repetitions). Any other favorite dances for peak experiences? Vanessa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 18:33:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 21:32:51 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >But the bond doesn't become truly mystical until the smaller set dances. This >is why I like ECD at its best more than contra at its best. (Is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) Yup. In the late '70s, at Tony Parkes' Monday night dance in Concord, before the onslaught of interminably crossed over contras, we often had very special experiences with Tony's square calling. I remember a number of times when he would improvise the break between the 1st and 2nd cpls' lead and the 3rd and 4th cpls' lead. The best times were when he was able to move outside of his own planned improvs into using suggestions from the squares in front of him, while the dancing was going on, or just before the particular dance began. Contra dancers will never understand this, because so few callers can improvise NE squares any more and because so many contra dancers want to go straight to that high without having to think, or work at it along the way. The overall effect at Tony's dances was cumulative - he would warm us up with accessible things, then move us bit by bit into things that gave him more freedom to improvise as a caller, or that bordered on the not-quite-finished choreography. We were guinea pigs in the best sense - that he had done nearly all his homework and came to us to put the finishing touches on the contra dances he was inventing. The squares were a chance for him to use standard figs interspersed with the caller's real work - the improvised intros, breaks and conclusions. To me, at the risk of sounding like a broken record here, the real high comes from being able to sustain quality dancing throughout an evening of varied material so that a community of dancers occurs that evening. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html Digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/BDP/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 18:43:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 21:42:25 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Best Dances for Peak Experiences? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Isaccs' Limerick St. Margaret's Hill Orleans Dusty Miller Slof Galliard Picking up Sticks Levi Tallis' But perfunctory dancing will kill anything. Often my peak experiences come from sharing the joy of doing it well, a joy which glows out of the faces of the dancers. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html Digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/BDP/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:19:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 10:08:36 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Peak Dance Experiences To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01BFCE0D.B23B7140-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Four of my favorites for peak dance experience- Hudson Barn, From Aberdeen, Barham Down & Mr. Isaac's Maggot. Very different feelings from each, but when it all goes together, and everyone is moving to the music and together, wow! My own mental comparison is that of being a cog in some cosmic machine, one's feet caught in the machine of music and movement, one's eyes meeting partner, neighbor, partner... heavenly, a true peak experience, Of course, music alone can build that peak from any dance. I have wonderful memories of a Pinewoods July 4th weekend years back when we had a wonderful band which included (the only name I can remember for certain) Claudio Buchwald. Dancing in the evening felt as if we all were floating a foot off the floor. Didn't matter whether it was contra or English- it was all peak. Mary Stafford ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:49:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 08:48:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Orly Krasner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak Dance Experiences To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000604154852.51630.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've had similar peaks in many of the dances already mentioned, but one other stands out in memory. I think the title was "Lover's Farewell" (complicated three-couple set with big loopy heys of all sorts? Helene Cornelius called it at Pinewoods summer before last.) After several days of hard work to get it all right, everything suddenly all came together in this particular set. At the end of the dance we all just looked at each other with glazed expressions that wordlessly asked, "Was it as good for you as it was for me?" Talk about intense connections. . . . --Orly ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:20:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 14:24:36 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: list To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <393A9EE3.929ECF4E-AT- globalnetisp.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <39397230.A31DBFD6-AT- dse.nl> SIGN OFF QUIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 16:17:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 19:17:04 -0400 From: "Albert A. Blank" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <393AE370.7591BC46-AT- sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JQ4JQAGS7M95VDHA-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote (in part): > There aren't that many joy-of-motion EC dances, and most of those are unequal: > Hambleton's Round O, Jack's Health, Female Saylor, Dublin Bay, Trip to > Kilbourne, maybe Prince William - how many others? This will be interesting to compile. Add: From Aberdeen and Barham Down. Albert ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 17:14:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:13:34 -0400 (EDT) From: SamiFidler-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #747 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <50.63b65f2.266c4aae-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/4/00 10:00:03 AM, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: << But the bond doesn't become truly mystical until the smaller set dances. This >is why I like ECD at its best more than contra at its best. (Is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares?) >> There was an experienced squares workshop at the dance flurry last winter- called by Ron Buchanan. It was scheduled against a contra medley in the main hall, so just about everyone who attended did so by deliberate choice , loved to dance squares, and did so pretty well. The dances were complex and fun and the music fast paced ( the band included personnel from the Horeseflies, plus Larry Unger and Jeremiah McLaine) the walk throughs were brief or not at all - I remember thinking halfway through a no walkthrough of HeyMania- God, take me now, it just doesn't get any better than this and I want to die happy:>) Sami ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:28:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 09:19:47 -0700 From: Howard Carlberg Subject: Re: Curly-headed Plowboy To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39368D20.7CCD0D47-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: (two months ago - sorry I'm just catching up) Lou Vosteen wrote: > > In Peter Barnes book of ECD is a tune called the "Curley-headed Plowboy." The ECD references have been given already. I just wanted to mention that Apple Tree Morris does a Morris Dance (Bampton-stick) called the "Curley-headed Plowboy" to the same tune. I have had the tune in my head for the last week or more and have started playing it, but I wasn't sure if I had the ending right. I never thought of looking in "Barnes" for it until I saw your question. So I looked it up. I had it pretty close. cheers Howard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:28:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2000 10:23:54 -0700 From: Howard Carlberg Subject: Sellenger's Round [was Re:World Dance Day message (fwd)] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <39369C19.6961878C-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01bfb6b9$a326d7a0$7ae7adce-AT- default> On May 5 2000, Marian Phillips wrote: > > Christine Robb forwards a message that says in part: > > >>(In old days this night was called the Walpurgis night, and some believed > the witches were flying to a certain > mountain to dance with the devil himself.)<< > > Well, I was up before dawn on May 1 and staggered off to Inspiration Point > in Berkeley to watch a bunch of morris dancers, does that count? > > Obligatory ECD ref: They finished off the performance by having everyone, > morris dancers and spectators alike, join in dancing "Sellenger's Round," I was on the other side of the bay at the Palo Alto baylands and we finished off with Seeelinger's Round also. > which is a dance I'm fond of but not when you try to crowd WAY too many > people into the circle, so I opted out. > > What is it about circle-formation dances that makes people think you can > just cram everyone in and it won't affect the dance? I see it a lot, and > it's usually a disaster, maybe because circle dances are seen as simple, > inclusive dances that the whole merry village can join into, even if half > the merry villagers have never done ECD in their lives, much less that > particular circle dance -- and the instructions/calling in these situations > are usually sketchy or non-existent. In my opinion it's a really horrid > introduction to ECD for people who might otherwise get interested. What else would you have then? It is, in practice, quicker and easier to get people who have no clue what you are talking about, to form a circle than line up in some other formation. Be glad you have so many merry villagers interested in joining in. If they are out there on May morning, they must have some interest or curiosity. Including them all is a good thing. I don't think they see it as such a horrid introduction to ECD. It is probably all greek to them anyhow, the point is they watched some dancing that hopefully impressed them, and now they get to do some, and maybe go home touched by the spirit of the day. Perhaps you should have danced Sellenger's Round not for your own enjoyment, but to help and inspire the person next to you, and invite them to your next ECD. Now, if these people were really all your merry villagers, and you keep introducing them to ECD like this, soon they _will_ have a clue to what is going on, and they and you can take it further from there. But it is Berkeley and you may not see the same people next time, so do what you can. If you recruit just one person, the effect could be exponential. One more point. I have danced Sellenger's Round with nearly 300 people in the room (in Berea) and it did not feel too crowded. They were all experienced dancers and everyone knew the dance. I think that makes a difference in the "feel". The whole room full of dancers moved together and nobody bumped into one another. If you are dancing outside at Inspiration Point, you should have enough physical space with two or three concentric circles. But if the people next to you don't know which way to go, then you can't dance and move where you want to go, and it will feel crowded to you. So I think it is more a factor of knowledge than space. Not just how many people are in the circle, but how many inexperienced people are there. And back to the original question of circle formation, most of the above is true for any formation. Similar situations will continue to present themselves. The best one can do is spread a liberal ammount of experience evenly through the set and hope for the best. Perhaps I'll see you at the next ECD. Introduce yourself and we can dance and feel a little less grumpy. cheers Howard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 07:26:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 08:25:42 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Slow motion highs To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? yes, me! I think it comes from that feeling of being on the edge, listening with all your ears to the caller, moving instantly to the call, everyone moving as one, going through a complex series of moves, and _then getting your partner back at the end_. Doesn't happen like that very often! I love squares! Just _don't_ understand those who hate them. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 09:20:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 12:19:39 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For me these occur in dances which fall into two types: a) The mesmeric (and often fairly energetic) dance - A Trip to Kilburn and Dublin Bay have both been mentioned. I would add to these Up with Aily to its own 9/8 tune, and Orleans Baffled, done as a duple minor - these are both 'moto perpetuo'; Dutch Dollars is another. b) The sensual dance, in which the contact with partner and the partnership work is tantamount to a love affair: here I list Trip to the Jubilee, Cynthia's Waltz, Well Hall, Hole in the Wall and (possibly greatest of all) Mr Beveridge's Maggot (Pat Shaw's version) - but maybe my vision is coloured by thoughts of the two partners I have had over the years with whom I have done these dances most sensually and satisfyingly! Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:01:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 13:03:43 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.20000605125858.00b9ac50-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 12:19 PM 6/5/00 -0400, SallenNic-AT- aol.com wrote: >For me these occur in dances which fall into two types: >a) The mesmeric (and often fairly energetic) dance - A Trip to Kilburn and >Dublin Bay have both been mentioned. I would add to these Up with Aily to its >own 9/8 tune, and Orleans Baffled, done as a duple minor - these are both >'moto perpetuo'; Dutch Dollars is another. Hello, Nic! Where can we find Dutch Dollars? Hugs, Sharon (looking forward to more peak experiences) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 10:05:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 13:04:36 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Aw Nicholas you don't like that full skipped figure eight at the end of Beveridge, with the wondrous moment when you brake to dance across and down the outside? ;-) Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html Digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/BDP/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 15:14:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 18:12:27 -0400 (EDT) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak Dance Experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/4/00 11:50:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, okrasner-AT- hotmail.com writes: << I've had similar peaks in many of the dances already mentioned, but one other stands out in memory. I think the title was "Lover's Farewell" (complicated three-couple set with big loopy heys of all sorts? Helene Cornelius called it at Pinewoods summer before last.) >> I hadn't given a thought to that dance in the past two years, and yet as I read Orly's message, I remembered exactly with whom I danced "Lover's Farewell" that summer at Pinewoods! It never ceases to amaze me that in the case of quite a few very special dance experiences, I remember who my partner was - even 8, 9, or 10 years later. One more addition to the growing list of "peak dance experience" favorites: Quite Carr-ied Away. Carol Martinez transported from White Plains, NY by lovely memories.... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 05:17:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 19:10:34 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak ECD experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000606.084402.-468221.1.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I ADORE it when you join hands in a line of 4 & go forward to the Presence!! It is so SWELL! There are no other words. Allison http://www.musicsleuth.com./sqpress ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 05:17:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 19:05:47 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000606.084402.-468221.0.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'd like to put in a plug for a wonderful English/Contra cross-over type caller who is Sue Dupre and some cross-over type dances (usually in limited set (i.e., 4C) formation dances by Gary Roodman just see various of his publications Cheers Allison Thompson http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 05:54:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:53:44 +0100 From: Hugh Stewart Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <393CF458.65FB6836-AT- ugsolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <4.1.20000605125858.00b9ac50-AT- popserver.panix.com> Sharon Green wrote: > > > Hello, Nic! > Where can we find Dutch Dollars? > Hugs, > Sharon (looking forward to more peak experiences) Holland as seen... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 07:18:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:17:20 -0400 (EDT) From: David.Millstone-AT- valley.net (David Millstone) Subject: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <15404340-AT- lyme.VALLEY.NET> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Carol Martinez wrote: "It never ceases to amaze me that in the case of quite a few very special dance experiences, I remember who my partner was - even 8, 9, or 10 years later." I remember well my first real exposure-- "real" meaning when I first experienced the joy of ECD rather than sneering at it as a wimpy substitute for contra dance-- at Pinewoods English & American week in 1987. I remember being guided through "Well Hall" with Pat Talbot and thinking, "Ah, so that's where that little extra twirl around goes..." and floating into some higher plane of existence. And then at a dance one evening encountering "Mad Robin" for the first time... And speaking of Carol Martinez, I recently experienced Fried's dance "Measured Obsession," which was written for Carol. That certainly provided a peak dance experience-- the movement and flow are extraordinary, punctuated by wonderful pauses provided by very slow steps in the midst of all the motion. We usually think of the enjoyment of dance coming from the movement, but in this case, I found great pleasure from the cessation of movement, something I wouldn't have imagined beforehand. David Millstone ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 08:44:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:43:14 -0400 (EDT) From: BSDieter-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak dance experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4c.668d2df.266e7612-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Speaking of "Peak experiences", just listened to the new CD, Measured Obsession, and in my humble opinion, the entire production qualifies! Thanks to each of you, Fried and MGM, for enriching my life. What a joy! Beverly ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:22:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:21:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfelinda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #749 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is to Alison: Have you done New York Times by Colin Hume? A great leading-up dance. Linda ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:26:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:25:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfelinda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #749 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <64.3691cc5.266e7fe4-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT And this is for Emma: Yes, I agree with you about squares. There's a high from just getting where you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. When it comes to American dances, contra to me equals calithenics. Or going to my gym and doing the treadmill. Squares are DANCING. So the thing I agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like squartes. Why is that? Linda. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:32:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:30:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Wolfelinda-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #748 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Re Joy-of-Motion English dances: what about Fried Herman's The Severn Bore? Pretty much constant movement, a great tune, beautiful movements, energy-entailing and elegant at once. Also, to Al Blank specifically: you include Prince William but not everyone's apparent favorite (at least based on how often we do it), namely The Bishop? Linda ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:44:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:47:23 -0400 From: Marge Cramton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #749 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000606123949.0096af00-AT- mailhub.logiclink.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Maybe it's because so many of the squares that get called at dances are so dumb. And then they have you hold your square so they can do another one, just as dumb. After a half an hour of waiting for your turn to be the visiting couple, you get more careful about what you sign up for. At 12:25 PM 6/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >And this is for Emma: > >Yes, I agree with you about squares. There's a high from just getting where >you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. >When it comes to American dances, contra to me equals calithenics. Or going >to my gym and doing the treadmill. Squares are DANCING. So the thing I >agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like >squartes. Why is that? >Linda. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:50:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Peak experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <8.5f63ca9.266e85bb-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/6/2000 3:00:19 pm, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >Aw Nicholas > >you don't like that full skipped figure eight at the end of Beveridge, >with >the wondrous moment when you brake to dance across and down the outside? > >;-) > >Emily L. Ferguson No, I'm sorry to say I don't, as I find repetition of the B music so *desperately*, unnatural, and, in common with most people this side of the pond, I find Pat's "Another look"... at Mr Bev. intensely satisfying; to the extent that, on the very rare occasions on which I meet Sharp's version, I sit and watch! Nicolas. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 09:51:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 12:50:05 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #749 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/6/2000 3:00:19 pm, system-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes: >Hello, Nic! >Where can we find Dutch Dollars? >Hugs, >Sharon Apart from "Holland as seen ...", on "Dance and Danceability"! Nicolas. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:42:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 13:41:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Wartell Subject: Re: Sqaures/Contra/English Peak moments To: E-AT- cas.org, ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <200006061741.NAA17958-AT- info.cas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Oddly enough I was just thinking about the question of why I don't enjoy squares very much after the last contra. I think it has partly to do with what you look for from a dance. I find that squares lack flow, and flow is something that I find very attractive. There's a lot of stop, wait, start off again, stop and wait some more. Also, there is a real tendancy for things to degenerate to a mad scramble; I don't care for dances where you need a traffic cop to sort out the paths. That is at least partly a function of inexperience on the part of some of the set - but in that way contras are more forgiving, and furthermore, in a contra, you aren't "stuck" with the same beginners for the entire dance. Finally, I prefer dances where the caller can stop calling, and I can concentrate on feeling the music, and as someone who likes squares pointed out, one key to having a successful square dance is to concentrate on the caller. I don't actively dislike (most) squares, and there are one or 2 I enjoy (Chinese Fan, which Kathy Anderson used to call, is fun), but I would not go very far out of my way to dance them. I've experienced real highs doing contras. There's the "runner's high" type excitement that happens at most contras, so my memories of peak experiences in that context focus more on events where things were special, rather than on particular dances. Dancing at the Pigtown Fling several years ago, with Tony Parkes calling and Nightingale playing was a sustained high. Dancing on New Year's Eve, about 16 years ago in Elkins, West Virginia, with Laurie Anders on piano and Kevin Burke on fiddle was divine, and the contra dancing at the Bloomington Ale, nearly that long ago, was bliss. All of them featured a high concentration of experienced dancers, and exceptional music. To drag this back on topic after that long digression, one peak experience in ECD I've had was in dancing a demo of Fandango. We had a small, attentive audience (always fun) and a set of experienced dancers, and a dance all of us like. And then, the audience gasped (quietly) the first time the set exploded into the heys - it felt wonderful to have the whole set moving together, and that feeling was reinforced by the recognition from the audience that something special was happening. Some partners make nearly any dance a peak experience. The musicians also make a difference. Dublin Bay at Berea with Bare Necessities and one of those very special partners was a peak experience too. More along the lines that were mentioned at the start of this discussion, I also love some of the simple, flowing dances (e.g., Female Saylor), because they induce something very like a trance state, and I love some of the much more energetic ones like Trip to Paris, which is a romp, and makes me laugh. Gosh, that's a lot of words - I think I could have stopped after saying I like dances with clear patterns and flow, and what makes them extra special are good music and good dancers. Sue Columbus, OH From Linda: > > Yes, I agree with you about squares. There's a high from just getting where > you're supposed to and flying with the music which contra just doesn't have. > When it comes to American dances, contra to me equals calithenics. Or going > to my gym and doing the treadmill. Squares are DANCING. So the thing I > agree with you about is this: what is it with the people who don't like > squartes. Why is that? > Linda. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 11:26:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 14:25:25 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: squares "dumb"? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I suppose it's not a good idea to start on why squares seem to be "dumb". But I can tell you this much, if your squares are "dumb" you can help your local callers get better and then their squares will get better too. Aside from that approach, one of the reasons that squares appear to be "dumb" to contra dancers is just what we've been talking about lately - that endomorphin high of continuous movement. And, you must also notice that many of the dances we've been talking about for a peak experience have this standing around problem. It's just not for the 1s. I believe the courtesy of standing and waiting (or better yet assisting), which David Millstone discovered despite himself at Pinewoods so long ago, is at this point the thing which makes English dancing most unattractive to the contra crowd. Emily L. Ferguson elf-AT- cape.com 508-563-6822 New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography Beetle cats on the web at: http://www.beetlecat.com/gifts.htm http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html Digital transformation at: http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/gallery-x/BDP/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 03:56:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 06:59:38 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD in Smithtown, Long Island [NY] on June 18 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.20000607043035.0093a8d0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For as many as will: An English Country Dance Party and Workshop in Long Island Sunday June 18, 2000 Brush Barn, Smithtown LI Workshop, 2:30 to 5 PM Father's Day Potluck, 5 to 7 PM Dance Party, 7 to 10 PM Caller, Sharon Green Band, The Flying Romanos Please come out if you can as we attempt to re-introduce English country dancing to the Long Island dance community. I believe that much of the best teaching occurs on the floor, as experienced dancers lead newcomers through the figures of a dance, and I hope I'll have some of you experienced folk along on June 18th to welcome these new English dancers into our growing family. For directions to the Barn in Smithtown: http://www.litma.org/brushbrn.htm Wish me luck! Much love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:52:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 23:22:09 +0200 From: Han Daamen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <393D6B81.C1E874B7-AT- dse.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT SIGN OFF QUIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:52:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:33:57 -0400 From: catdancer-AT- juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Peak ECD Experiences To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000607.164712.-232493.2.catdancer-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Is there anyone >out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? I have too! It was several years ago at Augusta Heritage Center when (again) Ron Buchanan was calling a challenging squares workshop. We were traveling in so many different directions, it was hard to tell which way was up, but we had loads of fun. Most of my dance highs are with the slower English tunes, though. Two favorites are: Elizabeth and The Old Mill. Helen Tuzio New York ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:39:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:32:37 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English/American Dances To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01BFD09E.4556F480-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'd like to re-direct the attention of the list to the core question Harvey Cohen was asking when he started this topic, as I am also on the same committee here in the Boston area. The topic has drifted to peak experiences, and though I'm carefully saving those which relate to peak contra experiences as well as peak experiences in English for those who previously scorned it, I'd like to see more serious discussion on how we can encourage an amiable interaction between the two groups. It would be naive to assume that one could convert all contra dancers to being avid English dancers, or vice versa. But a number of us on the two dance committees are really concerned with the degree of acrimony that seems to have sprung up between the groups, and would like to build a common ground. Any ideas you out there may have for successfully doing this, any cautionary statements on how not to do it, would be most welcome. More input, please! Mary Stafford Allston, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:21:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 01:20:45 -0700 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak ECD Experiences - squares To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <200006080520.BAA05873-AT- smtp10.atl.mindspring.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 04:33 PM 6/7/00 -0400, you wrote: >>Is there anyone >>out there who's had a peak dance experience with squares? > >I have too! It was several years ago at Augusta Heritage Center when >(again) Ron Buchanan was calling a challenging squares workshop. We were >traveling in so many different directions, it was hard to tell which way >was up, but we had loads of fun. OK... I have to add in that I have, too - many, many times (maybe even every week) - when Bob Dalsemer was in Baltimore calling regularly and I had time to go to both the American and English dances in town. Bob called some great dances: some that gave that continuous motion high, some singing squares, some W. Virginia squares, some challenging squares. I remember peaks from all the different types. Most of this, for me, was in the early-mid 80's. More recently (last 10 years), in other settings, I can remember being disappointed (or frustrated) with some of these dances, but mostly because the dancers didn't know how to dance them (e.g. proper style for the type of square, besides understanding the calls) so that you *could* have those peak experiences, not because the dances themselves were lacking. I think Bob taught us how to enjoy, appreciate, and have those peaks from dances many of us once thought were "dumb". (BTW, Thanks, Bob!) Diane PS Bob was also one of the first 2 ECD callers/teachers I had, and he did a great job at that, too. > >Most of my dance highs are with the slower English tunes, though. Two >favorites are: Elizabeth and The Old Mill. > >Helen Tuzio >New York > Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 04:42:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:37:24 -0400 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Anglo-American Dance To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <200006080741_MC2-A7FC-B3AD-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The discussion about combined English and American Dances gives me the perfect opportunity to announce: Dance to Colin Hume and Susan Kevra with music from Shane and Julia Day at The Grange Hall, Southam, Warwickshire, England Saturday, 8th July 2000, 7.30 to 11 p.m. Colin Hume is well known for his "Dances with a Difference", and has called at many Festivals and Dance Weeks in England, America, Holland, Denmark and the Isle of Wight. He is equally at home with Playford, American Squares and Contras, English Traditional, and even the occasional Scottish dance. Colin believes that a caller needs to entertain as well as teach, and his remarks about dance style are aimed at improving the dancers' enjoyment rather than just attacking them! Susan Kevra is much in demand at Dance Camps in the USA, and has also called in France and Denmark. She has even called English Dances at that hotbed of English Dancing - The Boston Centre. Like Colin she calls, writes and dances both English and American style dances, and believes that dancing of whatever kind is there to be enjoyed. Their combined dance in Letchworth last year was greatly enjoyed by all who attended - if you missed it, here's another chance. Shane and Julia Day belonged to the legendary "Wild Thyme", and now play with "Keeping Thyme" and "Contradition", but they are also well-known as a duo at Halsway Manor and many other places. They can certainly vary their style to suit the dances, and promise an evening of great music. The dance has been arranged at short notice, so please pass the details on to anyone who might be interested. Further information from Wendy Crouch, email WenCrouch-AT- aol.com, telephone 01865 848914. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 08:38:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:34:31 -0400 From: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Anglo-American Dance To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <200006081136_MC2-A7ED-9764-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Colin! Thanks for the info about the dance event, the callers, the band... I caught one other bit of information you mentioned in passing -- you seemed to be listing the Isle of Wight as a separate country. Have they (finally) seceded?? Looking forward to hearing more!! All good wishes from Susan (Murrow) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:00:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:41:02 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dance workshops, Cambridge, SOON, reminder To: vintage-dance-AT- world.std.com, early-dance-cambridge-AT- mit.edu, carolingia-AT- world.std.com, sca-dance-AT- andrew.cmu.edu, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, RENDANCE-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This seems like a good time to remind folks of a couple of upcoming early dance workshops that are fast rushing down on us. I'm going to both, and hope to see you all there! Tomorrow, June 9th, at 1st Church Congregational (11 Garden St., Cambridge), Charles Garth and members of Renaissonics. 7:30, Dances of the Renaissance, OPEN TO ALL, fully participatory, all dances taught, lots of fun, be there if you can (and live in the area). Sponsored by Renaissonics. $8 Tuesday, June 13th, Old Cambridge Baptist Church (1151 Mass Ave, Cambridge), Julia Sutton, with Barbara Finney & Ken Pierce, John Tyson, & others, 8:00, Christchurch Bells and the work of Andre Lorin (1685-6), ADVANCED WORKSHOP, lecture/demo/workshop, an unusual opportunity to see dance research at the bleeding edge (this material has not previously been presented, to the best of my knowledge, certainly not in this particular form). $10, $8 for CDS/NEFFA/FAC members (cosponsored by all three!), $5 for students and seniors. Write to me if you want a more detailed description of either; since both have previously been posted I won't do so here. --Mike Bergman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:17:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 03:33:01 -0700 From: Howard Carlberg Subject: Re: Joint English American Parties To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <393B81B1.73611AD3-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <6d.495b176.2668a78d-AT- aol.com> Harvey, Yes, I think a single caller is the ticket. The dancer will see whatever he or she calls, is just the material they call, there for all to enjoy, not English or American, new or old. good luck Howard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 03:02:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:31:02 -1000 From: "Yona B. & Alvin Keali'i Chock" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Peak Experiences To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000201bfd1f9$f73b8c40$fb83480c-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <009EB49F.A2DAFE27.1-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu> I agree that Bob Dalsemar can provide some real "highs". We lived in Maryland in the Washington DC metro area, and Bob came down to the FSGW dances (and we occasionally went up to Baltimore), calling squares, contras, and ECD's, and playing his accordian at the same time -- and every now and then getting down on the floor to teach a particular pattern. Those were memorable experiences which we still recall more than a decade and a half later. Aloha, Yona & Al Keali'i Chock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 08:31:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:50:42 -0400 From: Allison M Thompson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000609.115647.-473563.2.AllisonThompson-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On the topic of presentation of a mixed dance... I've seen it work a couple of times with a really super caller, but I've seen it fail many times for 2 reasons that I have noticed: 1. The caller says, in a hushed tone suitable for announcing a death: "and now we're going to do an ... (reverent pause) ... English dance 2. ... and then picks a complicated dance or one that's too slow or one that's got too much inactivity for the spirits of the crowd and then spends a long time teaching it I think the best presentations are when there is no identification of "ethnicity," so to speak, and, like Nike, you just do it. I agree with another commentator that it's best if it's the same caller for all dances in the evening. A couple of weeks ago, at a contra dance in Columbus, I was playing for Joseph Pimental who called a 9/8 dance (sorry! I forget the title) and then Liz's The Lover's Knot set to the tune of Trip to Kilburn & didn't make a fuss about either one & everyone seemed to love it. One was in the first half and one in the second & I don't recall any preliminary announcement about them being English. Allison Thompson http://www.musicsleuth.com/sqpress ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:09:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:08:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Allison M Thompson wrote: > On the topic of presentation of a mixed dance... [relevant stuff snipped out about ways to misfire when doing ECD in an otherwise "contra" context...] > I think the best presentations are when there is no identification of > "ethnicity," so to speak, and, like Nike, you just do it. I agree with > another commentator that it's best if it's the same caller for all dances > in the evening. > > A couple of weeks ago, at a contra dance in Columbus, I was playing for > Joseph Pimental who called a 9/8 dance (sorry! I forget the title) and > then Liz's The Lover's Knot Jim Kitch's, I think, not Liz's? set to the tune of Trip to Kilburn & didn't > make a fuss about either one & everyone seemed to love it. One was in > the first half and one in the second & I don't recall any preliminary > announcement about them being English. Joseph has a delightful style and can pull this off beautifully. However, I have been sorry that in the afterglow of appreciation, they sometimes never are identified as English, and so no awareness develops in the dancers that there are dances that they like that are English. If the purpose of bringing the two groups together is to be achieved, I think that the existence of the two groups needs to be acknowledged, but in ways that help dancers realize that they share some common interests and goals but also help them appreciate what the differences between them add to the overall dance experience. I think it is popular for the proponents of one or the other type of dance to defend their own interests by putting down the other, and I think that should be discouraged. I believe it is the resulting attitude which leads to the idea that one shouldn't mention that the next dance will be English at a contradance, as though it were poison. I in particular want to know about the origins of the dances, and I want others to know about them, too. The separation of English Country and contra dancers into two distinct "camps" that is quite common now, in contrast to times past when the two types were more commonly freely intermixed, I think is because there are some real differences between the two types of dancing and there are enough people doing each that they are able to pursue what they are most interested in by maintaining this separation. Perhaps because such a separation serves their own interests in deriving pleasure from dancing, the separation itself becomes the goal, making it harder to appreciate that there is still much dancing pleasure to be derived from a combined event, and that there are other benefits to this which might increase overall pleasure from dancing. Clearly the purpose of the separate events, outside of the secondary need to maintain separation, is to be able to do or experience certain things which are difficult or impossible in in the other context. Whether and to what degree they might be possible in a mixed event is a question that seems relevant. Perhaps there are other experiences possible in mixed events which those who separate them never enjoy, that need to be re-discovered. If there are, it would help to identify and promote them to develop enthusiasm for this kind of event. I don't see mixed events as replacing separate ones in areas where separate activity is strong enough to maintain a viable program. I see a need for those who need to be moving and who want to give their brains a rest, and I see a need for those who want to spend time learning a dance which doesn't lend itself to the "just do it" approach. Each offers its own type of satisfaction, and for some one is what they want, for some the other. No need to tell people what they should like to do. There is a need to let them choose for themselves. To make a good choice, they need to know what the choices are. For that reason, I feel that having combined events is a good idea, and that information about the type of dance is also a good idea. If this information poisons the atmosphere, that is not a problem with the information itself but the atmosphere into which it is introduced, and there is reason to promote a more tolerant, open, and broadminded approach among all dancers. Ideally one could have combined as well as individually focused events; in combined events one shares the pleasure of doing one's own favorite type of dance with others, trying to encourage them with your best dancing to give them pleasure similar to what you yourself get from it, and if you are successful, you may strengthen your own preferred type with new participants; this pleasure in exchange for the peak experience you sometimes get from dancing in your own context but are not likely to experience in the mixed group. In exchange for the good efforts of the other dancers who prefer something else to do what you like, you cooperate and seek to participate in the other type as well, doing your best to get into the spirit that the other type calls for. In that setting, both groups would support the combined events, and the combined event would support both groups. That's my idea of the ideal... And then there's reality... (8-( Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:41:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 18:42:38 +0100 From: Trevor Monson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Anglo-American Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <004001bfd23a$6f52d9a0$e39501d4-AT- trevormo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <200006081136_MC2-A7ED-9764-AT- compuserve.com> And after tomorrow's workshop and dance in Sheffield, Colin will also be able to list that he has called in Yorkshire as well as England?! (And he is another person who can successfully combine contra, squares and old & modern English in the same dance, but that is what we are used to in this country). Trev. ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT- compuserve.com> To: INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 4:34 PM Subject: Anglo-American Dance > Hi Colin! > > Thanks for the info about the dance event, > the callers, the band... > > I caught one other bit of information > you mentioned in passing -- you seemed to be > listing the Isle of Wight as a separate country. > Have they (finally) seceded?? > > Looking forward to hearing more!! > > All good wishes from Susan (Murrow) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:04:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:04:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000609180404.6980.qmail-AT- web3301.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Eric Arnold wrote: > If the purpose of bringing the two groups together is to be > achieved, I > think that the existence of the two groups needs to be > acknowledged, but > in ways that help dancers realize that they share some common > interests > and goals but also help them appreciate what the differences > between them > add to the overall dance experience. > And maybe the common heritage?? Most Contra dancers have no awareness at all of the heritage behind the dances. I'm not sure that very many of the callers do either, at least not enough to impart it to the dancers. Paul McCullough tends to call more old traditional Contras and unequal dances than most callers do today. The Portland Country Dance Community has tried something this year with mixed success. For several years now there has been an evening of Contra and Scandinavian dance once a year commonly called "Scantra". This tradition was started by Ted Remillard when he was calling the fourth Saturday dance that Mary Devlin runs now. The band was always Salem-Scio Express (the Moores being from Salem and the Whites being from Scio) which played regularly for Scandinavian dances in Salem. Sharon Moore teaches that group. PCDC has been trying a monthly dance featuring Contra and some other kind of dancing. (Contra-Irish, Contra-Swing, Contra-International...) Some dances have had good attendance and others have not. Andy in Portland OR __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:15:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 11:14:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <20000609181423.25722.qmail-AT- web3302.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Eric Arnold wrote: > <> > I see a > need for those who need to be moving and who want to give > their brains a > rest, and I see a need for those who want to spend time > learning a dance > which doesn't lend itself to the "just do it" approach. > Part of my frustration with Contra dancers is that "'just do it' approach". They aren't willing to learn enough to really be any good at it. Dancing is a social event, but at least English dancers have the courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long enough to actually do the dance with them. Mary and I already discussed some individuals in the Portland community that do that. Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:03:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JQEBMMQ0JG95SVR0-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andrew Peterson wrote: Part of my frustration with Contra dancers is that "'just do it' approach". They aren't willing to learn enough to really be any good at it. First, it might be good to say "some Contra dancers"; otherwise you're suggesting that they're all like that, which isn't true. Second, you have to remember that you're externally imposing standards of 'good at it' that may have little applicability to the people at the event. They're there to have fun. They have fun. That's all the 'good at it' they need. Dancing is a social event, but at least English dancers have the courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long enough to actually do the dance with them. It might be good to say 'some English dancers' since I've encountered or participated in this problem myself, at least in the 'surprised that the wait out was so short' mode. And you see talking during the dance, even to the point of partial distraction, a lot at balls and camps, since people are hooking up with rarely-seen friends. Dance or catch up? Try to do both. Actually, "dancing is a social event" is a statement that may not be altogether true for the kinds of dancing that we do, at least the way I've often seen them done. When the first lady chose the figure, and the first couple danced all the way down the set, with nobody else dancing until the first couple activated them, _then_ English country dancing was a social event. (Or if 4, 6, or 8 members of the company got up and did a dance while the rest stood around and chatted, that was a social event.) Now it's a dance event, and the social part is relegated to a short break or to after-dance expeditions, if any. One problem is that an event that gives lots of time and space for between-dance socializing will seem to the modern taste to really drag and be dull. I don't think you can convert an existing dance series to this style without losing the attendees; I don't think you can start such a series in vacuo and expect it to work - it needs to exist in a community. So it might be possible to get something started as a church activity, or a PTA function, or some other group where a lot of people know each other already. But I wouldn't expect the standard of dance there to be very high. Sorry for rambling. -- Alan Andy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:10:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:09:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English/American Dances in the same evening To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Andrew Peterson wrote: [in response to part of my earlier post regarding different approaches that folks take to get their dancing pleasure] > Part of my frustration with Contra dancers is that "'just do it' > approach". They aren't willing to learn enough to really be any > good at it. > > Dancing is a social event, but at least English dancers have the > courtesy of paying attention to the dance and not trying to > carry on a conversation in the dance to the point that they seem > annoyed when someone wants to interrupt their conversation long > enough to actually do the dance with them. Mary and I already > discussed some individuals in the Portland community that do > that. While these statements might go unchallenged in some ECD settings, I feel that it is blatantly unfair to apply them to contradancers in general. While I don't deny having experienced behavior of this type at contradances, I have also experienced extremely rude behavior at English Country dances; in neither case would I describe that behavior as typical. I believe the etiquette at contras is different from that at ECD; each must be taken in its own context. Neither says particularly much about the individuals participating. But these statements would be felt by all individuals participating in a contradance as very offensive, I believe, while they may apply accurately, if at all, only to what is probably a small fraction of the total. The net effect is that of a negative judgement about their preferred type of dancing, which isn't likely to promote a friendly attitude or cooperation. If we seek ways to make combined events more popular and succeessful, we need to avoid being judgemental about others' preferences for having fun, and simply seek to promote the behavior which will encourage and support either type of dancing. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we allow our own preferences to lead us to misuse those with whom we'd be better off cooperating than fighting. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:27:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:26:22 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: social dancing To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston said: >One problem is that an event that gives lots of time and space for >between-dance socializing will seem to the modern taste to really drag and be >dull. I don't think you can convert an existing dance series to this style >without losing the attendees. I've been asked to call at parties for people who are completely new to this kind of dancing (usually church socials), and I've certainly noticed that they do not expect to dance two or three dances in quick succession - they all go and sit down after one dance, and I have to do the work to get people on their feet again. They all enjoy the dances, I get plenty of people for each dance, but talking to their friends is the main focus of the party. It's very hard work calling to such a crowd because they talk during the walk-throughs too, and tend to try to pick up what to do from their friends and not the caller. You can hear your last instruction propagate around the circle ("what are we supposed to do?...Oh! hold hands - Katy, hold hands.....you hold hands.....sshhh everyone, she's trying to teach us what to do!" etc etc.). I never try to teach more than 3 dances at these parties, it is just too tiring, and that is all they want anyway. Truly social events. - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:43:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:42:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Wartell Subject: Re: English/American Dances (long) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <200006091942.PAA15511-AT- info.cas.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It's hard to know how to address acrimony between the English and contra dancers in an area without knowing where and how it started. If the problem is personality conflicts between prominent members of the 2 communities, that's a strictly political issue, and I don't know of any good solutions. Unfortunately, what I have seen happen in some areas is that the "our way is the only way, and what those other folks do isn't really dancing" fanatics can come to dominate a group, and inculcate that attitude in newcomers, giving rise to a group that may be very welcoming to those who subscribe to their style, but very off-putting to others. (Simple example - if you want to do a hands-across star at a contra and somebody grabs your hand and pushes it into a wrist-grip star, that can be anywhere from irritating to painful.) One way to approach the problem is to think about what the 2 groups expect from dancing and see where the areas of compatibility are, and where there may be no way beyond persuasion to convince the "others" that "your" way is fun, too. All comments which follow are generalizations based on my own experience, and may not reflect what happens in your area. Contra and English country dancers both come expecting an evening of dancing with a variety of partners, in sets where they will also be interacting with other people during each dance. They expect some teaching (walk-thrus) for each dance, and (perhaps) a mix of dances they know and new dances. If this is true in your area, it gives you a head start in terms of expectations. Contra dances, in general, at least in the modern era, are fast, high-energy, equal opportunity dances for first and second couples in longways sets, with a good deal of physical contact (swings and courtesy turns), and lots of room for improvisation and twirls. Downsides to some people are roughness or wildness, a lack of precision, a lack of interest in what the rest of the set is doing, and not paying attention to the music. English dances, in general, occur in a variety of speeds and styles, in a variety of formations, with first couple frequently more active than second couple, little physical contact beyond holding hands, and more emphasis on dancing with the whole set. Perceived downsides are fussiness and emphasis on styling, lack of spirit, lack of excitement, lack of physical contact. For someone whose definition of dancing is lots of spinning and close physical contact, English is not going to be satisfying. If they are willing to be open minded, they may find other appeals in English. On the other hand, for someone whose definition of dancing is stately, elegant movement in synchrony with others in the set, contras will be problematic. On both sides, there are those you will never convert. As for the "convertible", I'd guess it depends on their definition of dancing. Moving in concert with others in time to the music? - they ought to be easy converts. Doing historically derived dances - again, a fairly easy sell, with the right presentation. Just want to have fun, but open-minded about it - show them the ways in which the other form is fun. (Personally I like the historical connection from English to contra, but lots of folks don't care.) Longways English dances may feel more accessible to contra dancers. Include some free waltzes so that the ones who want more physical contact will get their "fix". Delegate those who want to bridge the gap to dance with some of the resistors from the other group. As Allison suggests, don't make a big deal about the distinctions between the forms ahead of time. Joseph's dance here in Columbus is not the only time that slipping English (and older contras) into the program here has been done, and been accepted. (But then, we don't have a strongly entrenched resistance to cross-over here - some resistance on the part of some folks, perhaps, but not a major issue, as there is a fair amount of overlap between the groups, particularly among the folks generally regarded as the best dancers ( = most popular partners.) Eric's idea of letting folks know that the dance they just enjoyed is one of "those" dances is also good, I think, to encourage them to try some other dances of that type and start to break down the preconceptions. Don't fret too much about styling (on either side), and again, enlist a core group (who are dedicated to making this work) to be on guard against militant style dictators who try to enforce their style on the rest of the set - you probably need to do this by example, or a gentle "That's OK, it works, too." in response to the decrees. (Interesting anecdote - I have a friend who is a Scottish Country dancer (and teacher). She had been coming to ECD for a year or two, and found it pleasant, but characterized it as gentle, very low-key, low-energy, low-demand dancing. Then we went to Berea to a Bare Necessities weekend, and she came away saying that her conception of ECD had changed entirely - she would never again characterize it as gentle and slow; it took as much energy as a Scottish weekend and it could be quite exciting. The moral of this story is that the music and teaching can make a huge difference in how the experience is perceived.) Sue Columbus OH ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:27:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:24:46 -0700 From: "Hamilton, Bruce" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: English/American Dances To: "'ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" CC: "Me (E-mail)" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary Stafford wrote: > I'd like to re-direct the attention of the list to the core > question Harvey Cohen was asking when he started this topic... > I'd like to see more serious discussion on how we can encourage > an amiable interaction between the two groups. > ... A number > of us on the two dance committees are really concerned with > the degree of acrimony that seems to have sprung up between the > groups, and would like to build a common ground. This is a great question. I certainly don't have an answer, but I know some principles that may be useful in looking for one. Assume "in my opinion" in front of each statement, and that any statement about people means "most people, most of the time." * A strategy that asks people to behave contrary to their long-term self-interest is doomed. * A strategy that asks people to behave contrary to their short-term self-interest can succeed, but it needs care. * Much of the acrimony comes from our tendency to generalize. "I did an X dance once and it felt Y to me" ==> "all X dances are Y." This generalization feeds another common one: "I don't understand your taste in dances" ==> "I don't understand you" ==> "I fear you" ==> various forms of irrational behavior. * Generalizations have a harmful effect besides false conclusions: as soon as we label something, we stop paying attention to its details. "Oh, she's a Democrat..." and now I think I know all sorts of things about her. I may be wrong or I may be right, but in either case I'm now less likely to ask, or listen, or give her the attention that I would have previously. * When people get a chance to explore freely -- without fear or judgment -- they find they have more similarities than differences. The fear goes down and the interactions get more amiable. * They also discover that their differences are real. People who like anchovies, for example, actually LIKE anchovies: they don't just fake it to gross me out. This takes longer to accept, but in can be a source of respect. * You don't cure an aversion to something by exposing people to it -- that often backfires. You think that if I would just taste a *good* anchovy, I'd begin liking them. You're more likely to strengthen my dislike. * People don't automatically know how to appreciate a new art form. We commonly pick something similar that we do know, and judge the new form by the familiar one's standards. Hence my frequent caution to ECD callers not to introduce contra dancers to ECD by picking contra-like English dances. A likely result is "yes, this is almost as much fun as contra dancing." * The more you love something the harder it can be to say what you love about it. If you find yourself saying, "See?" you know what I mean. Where does this lead? I dunno, but a few things suggest themselves: * Giving people information and/or letting them explore is more likely to succeed than asking them to do something. * Getting people to stop forming harmful generalizations about each other is very powerful, but also very difficult. Either we don't realize that we make those generalizations or we don't realize the harm. Even if we do, training oneself to stop is hard work. I have used materials by Marshall Rosenberg in some of my callers' workshops, but I didn't in my most recent one - I'm still figuring out what sort of direct approach is feasible (I guess this supports my previous note, about asking people to do anything). * What about indirect approaches? A neutral setting (neither your regular dance nor mine, even better, a non-dance setting) can encourage talk about topics other than the types of dance we do. Having two groups meet at a common place for food/drink after their respective dances is an example. I once saw a great piece of advice to mediators: "look for chances to behave differently from the way people expect." The translation of this for organizers might be to look for ways to let dancers be themselves and unlike their stereotypes. The Michigan folks once put on a workshop for callers, musicians and organizers, where most of the sessions were not on calling, music or organizing, but rather on topics common to two or three of those. (and every session, even the 1-topic ones, had attendees from all three roles, thus breaking a stereotype I didn't know I had formed :-) * If you trick people into trying a different type of dance, the trick may backfire. People's tastes genuinely differ, and dance forms are genuinely different. You may just reinforce an animosity. * If you pick a dance setting to encourage amiable interaction, help people understand HOW TO appreciate the unfamiliar form. Have a good band, caller and hall *for that form* (for example, many English dances lose their point in a crowded space, whereas part of the high in contra dances comes from many people moving at once). The caller should be explicit about how to appreciate the dance -- what to look/listen/feel for. The band can do the same thing; they may let the caller speak for them, or they can speak themselves. Playing well and passionately is good, but not enough. It will go over the heads of listeners who haven't been prepped -- the best reggae is boring if you're listening for how it resembles Scarlatti. * The same applies to the overall event. Events differ in the experience level of the dancers, their social expectations (talk, dance, exercise, date, explore, ...), in the kind of skill required (e.g. memorize vs. respond quickly to calls), and in the level of attention and responsibility they assume (a rewarding dance with a long teaching time will suit one group but not