Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 04:26:34 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:30:17 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
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staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> <007601bf830e$2814dd20$8b22a3d1-AT-
gloria>

Gloria Krusemeyer wrote:

> I suspect that Julia gave a standard dance historian's reply
> that might have less, rather than more, direct applicability
> to your question about the New Harmony manuscript than her
> approach to an Italian 16th century manuscript.  There usually
> is tension between the professionals and the amateurs.  The
> amount of work involved and knowledge necessary for producing
> a danceable interpretation is much less than that needed for
> producing a doctoral thesis.
>
> Luckily, there is room in the world for both amateurs and
> professionals.  Jonathan, I wish you many hours of fun
> creating danceable interpretations.  Julia and colleagues, I
> wish you many years of enjoyment correcting these
> interpretations while the dance community does what it does
> best - dance!

Well it is *not* all black and white, or amateur versus professional.
Certainly on ECD, dances has been researched by "semi-professional"
people: just think of Tom Cook's, Christine Helwig's, Andrew Shaw's
findings. In my opinion their work is not just hobby work.

Philippe Callens
Antwerp, Belgium, who lives only 50 km's away from Ghent (who on this
list will be at the conference?)


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 07:48:28 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:48:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #694
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Phillippe, I hope you'll be willing to provide a report on anything of 
relevant interest from the Ghent international early dance conference.

>Philippe Callens
>Antwerp, Belgium, who lives only 50 km's away from Ghent (who on this
list will be at the conference?)




Steve Corrsin
corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com
5166 Patrick Rd.
West Bloomfield MI 48322
tel (248) 661-6283

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:05:48 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 10:00:46 -0600 (CST)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Heyer writes:
> 
> Wow, that's a pretty exciting find.  Have you tried contacting the
> University of Indiana?  I did a web search and got sent to
> http://www.usi.edu/hnh/HNH1-1.HTM -- the website for "Historic New Harmony,"
> which is run by the University of Southern Indiana.  They have a Visitor's
> Center and various events scheduled through the year; I wouldn't be
> surprised if someone connected with it could tell you if any work has been
> done with the dance manual.  Maybe they haven't -- I didn't see anything in
> the list of "Exciting Events" that mentioned dance, and you'd think they'd
> be flogging it as a tourist attraction if they'd done anything with it.
> 
> As an alternative, perhaps one of the Indiana CDSS affiliates would know
> something about it.

   I have sent a message to the Curator of the historical site and asked
if she knows of anyone who has worked on this and whether they use any
of the dance and music in their programs.  It's only about 4 hours away
so I'll probably make a trip over there later this year.

Jonathan

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|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
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|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
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Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:22:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:22:11 -0500 (EST)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Jonathan,

I was replying directly to Alan Winston (?), who was suggesting a thread
to discuss the problems of reconstructing dances from manuscripts and
early printed sources. My response was meant to imply that this is a HUGE
AND DIFFICULT field, and not for amateurs unless they're ready to devote
their lives to it!

Julia



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:27:55 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:27:40 -0500 (EST)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Gloria K.,
 
  I would have to disagree strongly.  The problem in dance history is that
so many with little knowledge have had at early dances and recreated them
in 'danceable' form from their own images.  Our field is now encased in
these myths, and their mists have to be blown away!

Julia





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:56:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:55:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000301165520.6754.qmail-AT-
web1601.mail.yahoo.com>
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People were commenting because Rich Galloway sent a message from next
week that arrived a couple of days ago.  But Gary Roodman sent this
announcement two years ago for a ball next month!

Now that's what I call advance planning!!!


Date:  Fri, 01 Jan 1988 00:46:28 +0000
From:  Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.ed
Subject: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 

--- Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu> wrote:
> The Binghamton Country Dancers are hosting their first ball. 
> Please join us.
> BINGHAMTON COUNTRY DANCE BALL
> April 1, 2000


=====
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Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:08:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:06:33 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Jonathan, et. al.

Anyone working with historical American dance should check in with Kate Van
Winkle ("Kitty") Keller who maintains a HUGE library (manuscripts,
publications, and facsmilies) and databases (including dance and tune
indices) of sources of Anglo-American dances and music from the Colonial
period onward.  Also consider checking the CDSS library housed at Univ. of
New Hampshire (catalogued, BTW, by Kitty Keller).  She's also reconstructed
and published early American dances.

Another dancer with experience interpreting American dance is George Fogg.

Kitty and George both are CDSS members, so consult your Directory for
contact info.

Good luck on a great project!

Gene Murrow
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:09:44 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:06:38 -0500
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Message text written by Gloria Krusemeyer:
>There usually is tension between the professionals and the amateurs....
Luckily, there is room in the world for both amateurs and
professionals.  Jonathan, I wish you many hours of fun
creating danceable interpretations.  Julia and colleagues, I
wish you many years of enjoyment correcting these
interpretations while the dance community does what it does
best - dance!<

Well put!  This issue came up at the Amherst Assembly in 1996, where
professional dance historians/scholars (including Julia) and amateur dance
"reconstructors" (as well as many ECD dancers and enthusiasts) all
gathered. Many of us recognized how the two communities could assist each
other:  the academic historians could learn a thing or two about how we in
the ECD community get groups dancing together quickly (the whole bundle of
callers' and musicians' techniques so often discussed on this list), while
the amateurs could benefit from the techniques and disciplines of the
scholar when approaching historical material.

One of the Amherst Assembly scholars, Carol Marsh (a dance historian at
UNC), and I mused about a workshop to which we'd invite both "camps" for a
week-end or more of sharing.  One day....

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Caller, Musician and colloidal agent
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:28:16 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:31:55 -0600
From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007a01bf83a4$0a661280$3022a3d1-AT-
gloria>
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world.std.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: "julia s sutton" <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>

> Gloria K.,
>
>   I would have to disagree strongly.  The problem in dance
history is that
> so many with little knowledge have had at early dances and
recreated them
> in 'danceable' form from their own images.  Our field is now
encased in
> these myths, and their mists have to be blown away!
>
> Julia

It helps to know "what's right".  If it improves the dance,
all the better.  [I dislike Sharp siding, and tolerate it only
in some modern dances that were designed with swish! in mind.]
But that doesn't make history a dictator.  And if that
knowledge isn't available, do we wait, or try something?  It's
not like heart surgery, where a wrong move could kill the
patient.  Each generation has to recreate dances in a way that
is understandable to the dancer.  [Please let's not get into a
full discussion of historical performance practice.]

But dance is a live and evolving thing.  It is not run by a
board of dance historians or other authorities who dictate
styling, proper interpretation, banish regional variations,
etc., even though there are some individuals who act as though
they are the final authority, until another final authority is
encountered; then things get interesting.

Dance historians have the unenviable task of working through
this muddle from years or centuries removed.

BTW, whoever made the first interpretations of Playford dances
or whatever else, would have been working with less complete
data than we now have.  Someone would now be revising their
work, as your work will be revised in another hundred
centuries, if it is worthy of revision.

This debate is age-old, and I've just spent my last pixel on
this iteration.  Julia, may I have the next dance?

Gloria Krusemeyer
Northfield, MN


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:28:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:49:55 -0500
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country Cavalcade in NYC, 3/11/00
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.20000301123307.017069d0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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Because last year's Country Cavalcade celebrating CDSS proved so
successful, Country Dance*New York is doing it again!

Country Cavalcade is a festival of dance and song featuring English and
American dances led by CD*NY callers Beverly Francis, Yonina Gordon, Sharon
Green, Fried Herman, Gene Murrow, and Paul Ross, ably abetted by Sue Dupre
of Princeton, Mary Kay Friday of Washington, D.C., and Sam Rotenberg of
Philadelphia, with stellar music by Grand Picnic.  The evening includes
country and ritual demos by local groups--Chelsea English Country Dancers,
Greenwich Morris Men, Half Moon Sword, The Harpies, New World Sword and
Ring O'Bells Morris--plus Sacred Harp and group singing led by luminaries
from the New York Revels and from the Pinewoods Folk Music Club.  We'll
also have great refreshments: our mantra at CD*NY is "Bring food!"

Country Cavalcade will take place from 7-11:30pm, Saturday, March 11th, at
P.S.199, 270 West 70th Street [between Broadway & West End Avenue],
Manhattan.  We hope lots of folks will come out to celebrate New York's
special connection with CDSS and to enjoy the fun we have whenever we get
together.  

See you there!
Sharon Green

================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:00:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, julia s sutton wrote: 

[snip]
 
[re] . . . the problems of reconstructing dances from manuscripts and
> early printed sources. My response was meant to imply that this is a HUGE
> AND DIFFICULT field, and not for amateurs unless they're ready to devote
> their lives to it!

and in another message

 . . .  The problem in dance history is that
> so many with little knowledge have had at early dances and recreated them
> in 'danceable' form from their own images.  Our field is now encased in
> these myths, and their mists have to be blown away!

Julia's point that reconstruction of historical dance material by people
who have insufficient training to do historically accurate reconstructions
creates mythical images of what historical dance was really like is well
taken, and it seems important that folks who want to explore the subject
of historical reconstruction a bit without devoting their whole lives to
it should be careful to distinguish the results of their efforts from
those of the dance scholars who do, and not offer it to an unsuspecting
public as historical reconstruction.  This creates the mists that only add
to the difficulties of those like Julia who are doing their best to
distinguish between fact and fiction in this field.

However, it seems to me that one of the best ways to gain respect for and
to appreciate the work of the scholars in the field of dance
reconstruction is to "have a go" at it if and when the opportunity
presents itself; one quickly discovers first-hand that this can be a very
difficult and puzzling business, and that more information is needed if
one is truly to understand the source material.  This is likely to lead to
a more lively interest in the writings and other works of the dance
historians, and a concomitant respect for their scholarship.  How, after
all, did the dance historians themselves become interested in the field?
Not, perhaps, by seeing an old dance manual and being intrigued?

Even if an amateur should look at historical dance materials and create an
interpretation in his/her own image of what that dance was about, if it is
in some sense a good dance, and if it is not offered as a historical
dance, what is wrong with that?  Must all new choreographers drink
directly at Terpsichore's Well for their inspiration?  

And what about the music of folks like Warlock & Britten & many others who
"rediscovered" the delights of renaissance dance music and wove motifs
from them into their music?  

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor  



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:07:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:06:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JMILG4N50I95V4TG-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Julia Sutton wrote:

  I was replying directly to Alan Winston (?), who was suggesting a thread
  to discuss the problems of reconstructing dances from manuscripts and
  early printed sources. My response was meant to imply that this is a HUGE
  AND DIFFICULT field, and not for amateurs unless they're ready to devote
  their lives to it!

Just for the record, I wasn't suggesting such a thread.  I'd thrown my
little mite of information ("these cotillions have names matching names of
quadrille figures") and then disclaimed ability to advise on reconstruction
from primary sources.  I read the Rendance list, so I get to see at least as
much discussion of those problems as I need.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:40:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 11:42:53 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf83b6$55f884a0$b0eaadce-AT-
default>
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Alan writes:
>>these cotillions have names matching names of quadrille figures<<

Wallowing in my ignorance -- what's the difference between a cotillion and a
quadrille?

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:36:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 15:30:07 -0500 (EST)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance musicians and their music stands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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David, fond though I am of you, I must disagree with your assertion that
those musicians who don't work toward the "ideal" of playing familiar tunes
without sheet music will never be good dance musicians.  Here in Amherst we
are richly blessed with some of the finest ECD musicians around (Joyce
Crouch, Earl Gaddis, Doug Creighton, Ted Ehrhard, Pat MacPherson, Lise
Brown, and Karen Axelrod, to name just a few) and they all play with music
in front of them -- well, OK, Earl puts his on the floor at his feet, but
we put up with it for the sake of his rapturous playing.

When playing very familiar tunes, of COURSE they go "off book," look around
at the dancing, at each other, at the caller, at the dessert table -- but
they do keep the music in front of them.  I believe the goal is to get your
musicians to play sensitively, interactively, and with pleasure -- not to
get them to throw away their Barnes books (heaven forbid!).

Robin Hayden
ECD caller and self-appointed champion of ECD musicians everywhere
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:52:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JMIO2AU4CI95UJTE-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Marian wrote:

  Wallowing in my ignorance -- what's the difference between a cotillion and a
  quadrille?

This would be a wonderful question for Carol Marsh to answer, and if she's
listening I hope she at least corrects my errors in this post.

Here's way more than you wanted to know:

Just to avoid confusion, let's ignore the other meanings of the term quadrille
and stick to the ballroom in roughly the first half of the 19th century.

Cotillions come first.  These are dances for four couples in square formation.
The verses of each dance are standardized - that is, the same from dance to
dance.  (More precisely, there's a pool of ten or fifteen figures and the
people doing each dance choose however many they want to do out of that pool,
so if you did three cotillions in a row each could use different figures, but
they'd all be drawing from the same well. [Actually, I think Morrison suggests
that they generally started  and finished with "All round", so you'd have at
least that much overlap  between them all.] )  

Figures are things like  "All round" (everybody does eight counts of setting
followed by a slipping circle; repeat to places); men star (eight counts of
setting, right hands across, repeat with left hands back), women star, grand
right and left,  allemande and allemande reverse, etc.  The figures (or
changes) are pretty simple and of standardized length.  The choruses are 
unique to each dance.

So, you can write a cotillion to any tune (in duple meter, anyway) that has a 
32-count "A" strain. You can elaborate your chorus enough to use up "B", "C",
and "D" strains (as in "The Convention" or "Mr. Turner's Academy Cotillion"),
or keep it brief enough for a "B" strain (as in "Marlbrouk".)

Excessive speculation: This format doesn't give dancing masters enough work to
do.  Once people have picked up the standard figures, they just need to put a
chorus into short-term memory - that is, get a talk-through - to do a
cotillion, and the standard figures are easy enough that they don't have to
school for them.

Quadrilles are also dances for four couples in square formation (except when
they're for two couples facing each other.)  Dancing masters pasted together
the choruses of various popular cotillions to make sets of quadrilles, which
were standardized.  So you'd have "the first set of quadrilles," which had for
figures something like six choruses from cotillions, with names like 
"La Poule", "La Trenoise", "Le Pantalon", etc.  I think there were something
like three sets of quadrilles in general circulation.

Once the sets were standardized, composers began to write new music for them,
so you could end up doing the first set of quadrilles more than once in an
evening to different, suitable, music.

Since quadrilles were complicated figures in an arbitrary order, they were no 
longer a quick teach, and you had to go to dancing school to learn them. Since 
a set of quadrilles took quite a while to do, you didn't need to know many sets
to fill out an evening, especially since you could repeat them - and would want
to, to leverage the investment in learning them.  So quadrilles competed for
floor time with longways dances, and won.

In the early part of the 19th century the dancing masters were teaching
footwork for the quadrilles; I've seen a French book from 1810 or thereabouts
that specifies chassez to travel and jete-assemblee to stop traveling, and
gives a dozen examples of different balances to do.  In the later part of the
19th century, the dancing masters have devoted themselves to stamping out
footwork for the quadrille and converting it into walking patterns.  (My theory
is that the new economy was creating a class of rich people who wanted to
dance at balls but who hadn't had dancing lessons in youth and couldn't do
footwork well, so the dancing masters moved to bring the desired dance level
down to something everyone could accomplish.)

At some point the Les Lanciers figure was broken out of the quadrille sets and
converted into a dance by itself, and became very popular.

By 1900 "quadrille" was being used, at least in America, to mean 'a square
dance', so there's a genre of square dance called "New England Quadrilles"
which aren't much related to what we're talking about here.

On a side note, there is something in one of the Community Dance Manuals called
"La Poule Quadrille", which is indeed a square dance, and which appears to be
the result of somebody taking some composer's music for the La Poule figure 
from the first set of quadrilles and making up a new dance to it - but not one
that uses "La Poule."

-- Alan







===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:08:05 PST
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 13:14:35 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
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Merci!  You know, the format for cotillions sounds remarkably like the
format for morris dances -- standard figures with a distinctive chorus.

Marian


================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:38:44 -0800
From: "Michael J. O'Connor" <mjoconor-AT-
erols.com>
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <38BDB814.3058-AT-
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Eric Arnold wrote:
> However, it seems to me that one of the best ways to gain respect for 
> and to appreciate the work of the scholars in the field of dance
> reconstruction is to "have a go" at it if and when the opportunity
> presents itself; one quickly discovers first-hand that this can be a 
> very difficult and puzzling business, and that more information is 
> needed if one is truly to understand the source material.  This is likely to lead to
> a more lively interest in the writings and other works of the dance
> historians, and a concomitant respect for their scholarship. ...

	About five years ago at E-A Week at Pinewoods, Philippe Callens
presented an original, early dance description and music to a small
class in C#m, broke us up into three groups, each with our own musician,
and asked us each to have a go at making it into a dance.  It was
absolutely fascinating!
	The result, of course, was four different interpretations, that looked
like four different dances.  Two groups did it at a slow tempo; as a
consequence, we had to add "embellishments" to fill up the available
time.  One did it in jig time, pretty much straight as written, but
nevertheless different from what Philippe showed us he had done.
	We each had reasons for why we'd done what we had, although, after I
heard the others, I had to conclude that Philippe's reasons for what
he'd done sounded best to me.  But the entire exercise left us all
appreciating how very, very difficult indeed it is to interpret, much
less reconstruct, a dance from the bare bones of its original
description.  And, it was a lot of fun.
	Did any of the class's results deserve to be called a reconstruction? 
Absolutely not.  Philippe's may have, or it may have come close.  But as
Gloria and Eric have suggested, it may be that the objective was or
should have been more along the line of creating something interesting
that we could try dancing today, instead of a rigorously faithful
interpretation of how it might have been danced some 300 years ago. 
Room for both types of effort, or there should be.  After all, if we
have to wait to dance any of them until the faithful reconstruction is
finished, we'd all have to do cajun in the meantime.  Or swing, or
whatever.	And it'd likely be a long time.

> Even if an amateur should look at historical dance materials and create 
> an interpretation in his/her own image of what that dance was about, if 
> it is in some sense a good dance, and if it is not offered as a 
> historical dance, what is wrong with that?

	Yes, so long as we are clearly aware that we're just doing an enjoyable
dance (omigod! which is it?) genre (?), and that it will take years of
dedicated study and work by someone else before we can do a certifiably
historic reconstruction, what is wrong with our getting enjoyment in the
present?

================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 15:29:58 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>
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Jonathan Sivier writes:
 >>I have sent a message to the Curator of the historical site and asked
if she knows of anyone who has worked on this and whether they use any
of the dance and music in their programs.<<

Could you keep us posted on what she says?

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 15:24:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 18:23:35 -0500 (EST)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony Dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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aol.com>
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Just a footnote to the origin of New Harmony, Indiana. This was the American 
experiment of Robert Owen, owner and developer of New Lanark (in Scotland), 
known as "the Father of Socialism" - New Lanark is known as "the cradle of 
Socialism".
                                                        Nicolas B., Lanark, 
Scotland.
================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 22:12:15 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English dance in Lafayette?
To: DIANNA SHIPMAN <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <004501bf83fd$9957dce0$74f7490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Do you know of any English country dancers in Lafayette, Louisiana? If so,
can you supply a contact person?
Thanks,
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More:
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:29:00 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b4e39df23965-AT-
[140.186.55.199]>
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Wow!  If I were in Lafayette, LA, I'd go look for the regular gig that
Michael Doucet plays there, his normal weekly gig.  How interesting it
would be to see what he does when he's not on national radio or a "Folk"
Festival stage.

Perhaps I'd have the good fortune to find him playing with Marc and Ann
Savoy!  Or some visiting Quebecois box players hanging around with him.

Now that would be a treat!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 21:03:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 20:45:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.1000301204514.21950E-100000-AT-
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On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, julia s sutton wrote:

>   I would have to disagree strongly.  The problem in dance history is that
> so many with little knowledge have had at early dances and recreated them
> in 'danceable' form from their own images.  Our field is now encased in
> these myths, and their mists have to be blown away!

And while you're blowing the mists away, may we dance?

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 21:59:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:45:24 -0500
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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juno.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200002292228.QAA20805-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> <38BD0D59.CCB275DD-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>

What an interesting discussion Jonathan has started.  I hope he carries
on with his research.

I'm not a dance historian, but I can claim the title historian, if no
longer a professional one (Ph.D., 19th c. U.S. history, University of
Maryland, 1984).  We all go to all but the most recent history as
strangers, looking for things we hope are significant, and hoping we know
what we see, and wondering what we don't see.  Sometimes we will see
things about a society that contemporaries didn't see.  The more remote
in time and place, the more difficult it is to know what we see and its
meaning.  The early 19th-century US is a pretty accessible period to the
diligent amateur. 

If Jonathan's project results in us seeing not only his interpretations
but also the original texts, we are all ahead.  Those with greater
knowledge of dance history can correct any errors, or offer alternative
interpretations.  Perhaps the dancing community will discover hitherto
unknown dances that meet our taste--or that we will want to adapt and
dance, knowing that what we are doing is not an authentic period
reconstruction but an authentic 21st-century version.  (We have an
18th-century Childgrove, and some 20th-century versions.)

The important thing about scholarly discourse is that it's public.  If
these are dances that we haven't know about, it's worth knowing about
them, even if they turn out to be "bad" dances.  Whether they turn out to
be of interest to dance historians or to dancers, bringing them to light
would be useful to social historians.

Mike Franch
Baltimore
(Sorry for the sermon, that's another one of my professions.)

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:00:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 00:43:29 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <015401bf8412$c140f240$74f7490c-AT-
pavilion>
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Emily - fill me in - does he play English dance music?  I'm sorry to say I
haven't heard of him.
Dianna
----- Original Message -----
From: Emily L. Ferguson <elf-AT-
cape.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2000 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?


> Wow!  If I were in Lafayette, LA, I'd go look for the regular gig that
> Michael Doucet plays there, his normal weekly gig.  How interesting it
> would be to see what he does when he's not on national radio or a "Folk"
> Festival stage.
>
> Perhaps I'd have the good fortune to find him playing with Marc and Ann
> Savoy!  Or some visiting Quebecois box players hanging around with him.
>
> Now that would be a treat!
>
> Emily L. Ferguson
> elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
> Beetle cats on the web at:
> http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 23:48:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 02:12:21 -0500
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Lancers
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000601bf8416$a6cca680$90d4bfa8-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Alan wrote:

"The Lancers figure became the basis of a quadrille itself."

And again:

"At some point the Les Lanciers figure was broken out of the quadrille sets
and converted into a dance by itself, and became very popular."

I've done three different Lancers, but at such widely spaced intervals that
I have no recollection of their having a common figure.  Would you describe
what you mean by "the Lancers figure"?

Many thanks,

Pat

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 07:11:57 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130301b4e409b40135-AT-
[140.186.55.58]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <l03130300b4e39df23965-AT-
[140.186.55.199]>

Hmm.  OK.

Michael Doucet is the leader of Beausoleil - the biggest name in Cajun/rock
'n' roll style music in the world.  He's a radio DJ in some of the rest of
his time and I think teaches at some school there too.  He's completely
covered the traditional Cajun world in Louisiana, knows every white and
every black cajun musician alive and no longer alive and works every side
of the cajun music world from the most traditional to the most cutting edge.

In summary what I was trying to suggest was that when you were in Rome you
should check out what the Romans do and leave set what happens in London
aside for a day or two!

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 09:03:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:57:06 -0500 (EST)
From: LIBWaltz-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Advance Planning for Binghamton Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <73.17a1577.25eff762-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Now that's what I call *really* advance planning.
Did you say two years, Barbara?

Lucy Weinstein
  
> People were commenting because Rich Galloway sent a message from next
> week that arrived a couple of days ago.  But Gary Roodman sent this
>announcement two years ago for a ball next month!
> Now that's what I call advance planning!!!
  
> Date:  Fri, 01 Jan 1988 00:46:28 +0000
 >From:  Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.ed
> Subject: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
>To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
  
 --- Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu> wrote:
 > The Binghamton Country Dancers are hosting their first ball. 
 > Please join us.
 > BINGHAMTON COUNTRY DANCE BALL
 > April 1, 2000
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 11:03:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:02:51 -0500
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance musicians and their music stands
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <200003021403_MC2-9B7B-CB92-AT-
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Hello, all,

I thank Robin Hayden for standing up for us dance musicians who keep the
music page in front of us.  And how pleasant to find my own name in such a
highly complimented list!  (thanks, Robin, and the check's in the mail... 
:-))

I, too, took issue upon reading David Barnert's post (hi, David!)...I
didn't really want to think of myself as a bad dance musician...!  On the
other hand, whenever I see Jacqueline Schwab at the piano with her Barnes
book closed and set to one side on the music rack, I am filled with
admiration and awe.  And to tell the truth, I have personally put
significant effort into "getting away from the page" and I'm still working
on it, for the greater freedom, not to mention musical understanding, it
fosters, although I suspect that to my dying day I'll prefer having the
written tune in front of me as I play.

Playing without the sheet music is just not the make-or-break, sina qua non
(I love it when I talk like that), or even a very important ingredient in
good playing for dancing, as long as the lights stay on.   As Robin wrote:

>>>I believe the goal is to get your
musicians to play sensitively, interactively, and with pleasure<<<

A fine statement of high priorities, very well put.  I'd just like to add
another adverb..."danceably," meaning in steady tempo, with lift.  Not an
attribute that can be taken for granted, so I wish to highlight it here.

Joyce Crouch
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:09:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 12:16:27 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf8484$30a173a0$a2e7adce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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And since this discussion is in the context of open bands, let's just take a
moment to acknowledge how agreeably spoiled we are in the dance community
that we can sit around demanding that musicians should play without written
music, sensitively, interactively, danceably -- *and for free.*

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:31:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 16:26:58 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00b501bf8496$e7eea200$caf8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <l03130300b4e39df23965-AT-
[140.186.55.199]> <l03130301b4e409b40135-AT-
[140.186.55.58]>

Emily - thanks for the info - the person who contacted me does Scottish
Country dancing in Lafayette and was wanting to expand into English country
dance and had heard there was a group in Lafayette but had been unable to
find them.  He seems to participate in a lot of the local activities as well
(and probably is up on the local musicians) - but was wanting to expand his
horizons.  I also love cajun music and dance and next Tuesday plan to
celebrate with a meal at my favorite local cajun restaurant.
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More:
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?


> Hmm.  OK.
>
> Michael Doucet is the leader of Beausoleil - the biggest name in
Cajun/rock
> 'n' roll style music in the world.  He's a radio DJ in some of the rest of
> his time and I think teaches at some school there too.  He's completely
> covered the traditional Cajun world in Louisiana, knows every white and
> every black cajun musician alive and no longer alive and works every side
> of the cajun music world from the most traditional to the most cutting
edge.
>
> In summary what I was trying to suggest was that when you were in Rome you
> should check out what the Romans do and leave set what happens in London
> aside for a day or two!
>
> Emily L. Ferguson
> elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
> New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
> Beetle cats on the web at:
> http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:31:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 16:29:46 -0600
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance musicians and their music stands
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00b601bf8496$e95fe540$caf8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <200003021403_MC2-9B7B-CB92-AT-
compuserve.com>

Speaking of Jacqueline Schwab - a friend recently made a gift to me of her
CD "Celtic Dialogue"  with Jaqueline on the piano - I kept it running
continuously on the car CD player for about 3 days - it's an incredible
listening CD - what an amazing talent!
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
Scottish Country Dancing and More:
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joyce Crouch" <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 1:02 PM
Subject: Dance musicians and their music stands


> Hello, all,
>
> I thank Robin Hayden for standing up for us dance musicians who keep the
> music page in front of us.  And how pleasant to find my own name in such a
> highly complimented list!  (thanks, Robin, and the check's in the mail...
> :-))
>
> I, too, took issue upon reading David Barnert's post (hi, David!)...I
> didn't really want to think of myself as a bad dance musician...!  On the
> other hand, whenever I see Jacqueline Schwab at the piano with her Barnes
> book closed and set to one side on the music rack, I am filled with
> admiration and awe.  And to tell the truth, I have personally put
> significant effort into "getting away from the page" and I'm still working
> on it, for the greater freedom, not to mention musical understanding, it
> fosters, although I suspect that to my dying day I'll prefer having the
> written tune in front of me as I play.
>
> Playing without the sheet music is just not the make-or-break, sina qua
non
> (I love it when I talk like that), or even a very important ingredient in
> good playing for dancing, as long as the lights stay on.   As Robin wrote:
>
> >>>I believe the goal is to get your
> musicians to play sensitively, interactively, and with pleasure<<<
>
> A fine statement of high priorities, very well put.  I'd just like to add
> another adverb..."danceably," meaning in steady tempo, with lift.  Not an
> attribute that can be taken for granted, so I wish to highlight it here.
>
> Joyce Crouch
> Amherst, MA

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:05:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 17:04:55 -0800
From: giovanni de amici <g.deamici-AT-
trw.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <38BF0FB7.56C39AC1-AT-
trw.com>
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not sure where you live, but our local (Los Angeles, CA) band fits none
(that is zero, nilch, nada) of the five characteristics you elencate,
namely: 
1) competently, 
2) sensitively, 
3) interactively, 
4) danceably, 
5) for free. 
Occasionally they come close to matching the fourth requirement :-)).
Giovanni De Amici (who is not agreeably spoiled at all)


Heyer wrote:
> 
> And since this discussion is in the context of open bands, let's just take a
> moment to acknowledge how agreeably spoiled we are in the dance community
> that we can sit around demanding that musicians should play without written
> music, sensitively, interactively, danceably -- *and for free.*
> 
> Marian
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:57:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:56:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Schwab CDs, was music stands
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000303025649.61962.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi All--
After reading Diana's plug for "Celtic Dialogue," I have to add mine for 
Jacqueline's newest solo CD, "Down Came an Angel."  It's amazing.  Don't let 
the subtitle fool you into waiting for the Christmas season.
--Orly Krasner
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 19:47:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 22:47:03 -0500
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <200003022247_MC2-9B90-E975-AT-
compuserve.com>
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>>>our local (Los Angeles, CA) band fits none
(that is zero, nilch, nada) of the five characteristics you elencate,
namely: 
1) competently, 
2) sensitively, 
3) interactively, 
4) danceably, 
5) for free. <<<

well, how about the other characteristic Robin mentioned, "with pleasure?" 
Please tell us they're at least having some fun playing!!  If so, there's
hope that in time and with encouragement they'll develop characteristics 1)
through 4).

One way to encourage better playing is to compliment them enthusiastically
whenever you catch them playing danceably.   As always, the more specific
the compliment, the better.  

If they could be encouraged to attend a dance camp or weekends with English
dancing, they might get inspired and get practical help.  Or what if you
bring in a really great musician to lead them at a special Ball or dance,
and have that person lead a musicians' workshop prior to the event.

short of that, all I can suggest is loaning or making them a present of
your favorite danceable English dance music CD, saying, "wow, wait till you
hear this!  you'll love it!"

Joyce Crouch
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:48:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 23:58:22 -0500
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000303.001848.-185711.5.catdancer-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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TWO years ago?
Seems like Barbara's comment was sent in 1990!  
We MUST be in a time warp.
Beam me up, Scotty!

Helen Tuzio

On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:55:20 -0800 (PST) Barbara Ruth
<barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com> writes:
> People were commenting because Rich Galloway sent a message from next
> week that arrived a couple of days ago.  But Gary Roodman sent this
> announcement two years ago for a ball next month!
> 
> Now that's what I call advance planning!!!
> 
> 
> Date:  Fri, 01 Jan 1988 00:46:28 +0000
> From:  Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.ed
> Subject: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  > --- Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu> wrote:
> > The Binghamton Country Dancers are hosting their first ball. 
> > Please join us.
> > BINGHAMTON COUNTRY DANCE BALL
> > April 1, 2000
> 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 23:56:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 21:54:59 -1000
From: "Yona B.  &  Alvin Keali'i Chock" <alchock-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701bf84e6$28000e20$7e82480c-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <009E679D.66A9CEE6.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>


On 01 Mar 2000, julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com> wrote:

>   I would have to disagree strongly.  The problem in dance history is >
that so many with little knowledge have had at early dances and
> recreated them in 'danceable' form from their own images.  Our field > is
now encased in these myths, and their mists have to be blown
> away!

Many fields are covered with mist in Europe (we used to know that we had
crossed the border into the Netherlands because of the mist - actually two
different kinds).

In German "mist" means manure!  Sorry, I just couldn't resist it!

Aloha,
Al Keali'i Chock


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 00:30:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 00:37:26 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf84eb$b4640ce0$17ebadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Giovanni De Amici writes:
>>our local (Los Angeles, CA) band fits none (that is zero, nilch, nada) of
the five characteristics you elencate<<

Then why don't you switch to recordings?

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 06:38:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 06:37:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000303143742.23338.qmail-AT-
web1603.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- catdancer-AT-
juno.com wrote:
> TWO years ago?
> Seems like Barbara's comment was sent in 1990!  
> We MUST be in a time warp.
> Beam me up, Scotty!

Wait a minute.  Are you saying this isn't 1990?
Barbara

=====
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Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:46:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:46:08 -0700
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b02b4e597c4e205-AT-
[155.99.169.121]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>>>>our local (Los Angeles, CA) band fits none
>(that is zero, nilch, nada) of the five characteristics you elencate,
>namely:
>1) competently,
>2) sensitively,
>3) interactively,
>4) danceably,
>5) for free. <<<

I wonder why they are playing.  How did the situation arise?  Did an ECD
enthusiast twist their arms into playing?  Was it the brainchild of one
good musician who has since left?

I ask because whether you can do anything about it depends very much on
their enthusiasm and their reasons for playing.  If they love the music,
but don't know how to get the sound youand they want, then it should be
easier to get them to work on it.

>Or what if you
>bring in a really great musician to lead them at a special Ball or dance,
>and have that person lead a musicians' workshop prior to the event.

This is the idea of Joyce's that I think is most likely to do good.
Actually, the ECD musicians in Salt Lake have just had a workshop with
Laurie Andres and Cathie Whitesides, and we all learned a lot.  Our monthly
dance was last night, and I believe the difference was noticeable -
especially in the specific tunes we worked on, but also overall (Laurie,
the improvement in Richard's accompaniment was huge - it was much lighter.
The tip of not using pedal really helped).

It is unlikely that a one-time event will lead to lasting change, so if the
budget will run to it, have it a yearly thing.  The dancers will have a
great time at the ball, and be rejuvenated by dancing to excellent
musicians.  The musicians will be enthused and also perhaps a bit
discontented with their present standard.  They might even be stimulated
into having rehearsals!  Then you can help them directly by attending the
rehearsals and giving them feedback, hints on timing, hints on how the
music can be played so it fits the dance etc.  If your musicians are not
dancers themselves, perhaps they don't know these things!

Above all, let your musicians hear how the music _should_ be played, and
give them something to aim for.  But Joyce is right to suggest doing this
entirely without implication that they are presently falling short of your
standards.  We are all sensitive souls and implied criticism is likely to
do more harm than good.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 10:28:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 10:28:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000303182841.19906.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- Emma Rushton <rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu> wrote:
> It is unlikely that a one-time event will lead to lasting
> change, so if the budget will run to it, have it a yearly >
thing.

When I was in Reel Nutmeg there was a lot of style difference
between people. The leader, who had led the group since its
beginning, was also a clogger and his English style didn't
completely seperate out the earthiness of the clogging. I, on
the other end of the spectrum, had learned from May Gadd, Genny
Shimer and others to dance "up and forward", using my entire
body to move. I covered more ground with relative ease than many
of the group and I was constantly accused of taking too big a
step. In 1989, just before NEFFA, we had a
performance_group_only workshop with Genny Shimer and a public
dance in the evening. By the end of the day, Genny had everyone
in the group moving as I had learned to move years before. The
sets were bigger and everyone was covering the larger space with
what approached flowing elegance. At the next Thursday
rehearsal, the last one before NEFFA, most of them had pretty
much reverted to their old ways. I think the seed was planted
though and some people saw a vision of how much better they all
could be. Helen Davenport is now leading the group and I have
heard some good things about the NEFFA performance last year.
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Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:02:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1988 00:44:41 +0000
From: Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Binghamton Ball Time Warp
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19880101004441.006ab66c-AT-
mail.binghamton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 Date:  Fri, 01 Jan 1988 00:46:28 +0000
> From:  Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.ed
> Subject: Binghamton English Country Dance Ball
> To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU            
>  > --- Gary Roodman <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu> wrote:
> > The Binghamton Country Dancers are hosting their first ball. 
> > Please join us.
> > BINGHAMTON COUNTRY DANCE BALL
> > April 1, 2000

Last July (1999) my computer decided that it was Jan. 1, 1988 and has so
dated all messages sent since then.  At least I didn't need to worry about Y2K.
Rowena Roodman

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:38:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 11:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Keeping open bands under control
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000303193845.3949.qmail-AT-
web3305.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--- giovanni de amici <g.deamici-AT-
trw.com> wrote:
> not sure where you live, but our local (Los Angeles, CA) band
> fits none
> (that is zero, nilch, nada) of the five characteristics you
> elencate,
> namely: 
> 1) competently, 
> 2) sensitively, 
> 3) interactively, 
> 4) danceably, 
> 5) for free. 
> Occasionally they come close to matching the fourth
> requirement :-)).
> Giovanni De Amici (who is not agreeably spoiled at all)
> 
 
Moving from New England to Portland ten years ago had one down
side. I was spoiled by dancing to Bare Necessities and others in
Boston, Marshall Barron and friends in New Haven, Norb Spencer
and Paul Woodiel in Hartford and many other very talented east
coast musicians at various Balls and weekends. The group which
played here in Portland for ECD was dreadful. In addition to not
being competent, they lacked the versatiity to allow the caller
to change the program to fit the ability of the dancers. (Most
of them have moved on to other things.) To make it worse, the
dance met once a month and even the regulars had to be re-taught
how to dance every month. I could tolerate that to a degree, but
the band...  I found myself *not* wanting to go to ECD because
the music was so bad. Having grown up (literally, I *was* in
high school at the time) doing ECD to whatever limited
recordings were available then and having a personal collection
of CDSS, EFDSS and other recordings, I would much rather have
danced to recorded music than that band. It was a lot of the
reason that Nan Evans started running an alternative ECD that
she hires the musicians for. To not be too big a slap in the
face, she did hire that band a few times, but now even the PCDC
first Saturday rarely hires them.

When I moved here, George Penk was a fairly competent musician
and played regularly for Contras. (Now playing monthly on third
Saturdays with Jigsaw.) Jim Howe used to put on a Spring Dance
Festival every year and bring in out-of-town callers and bands.
One year Alasdair Fraser came up from the Bay Area for the
festival and while here he stayed with George and Heather.
George's music has never been the same. He learned so much
during those three days and has continued to grow.

That is one thing I can suggest for you to do. Have a dance
weekend with out-of-town musicians and somehow coerce members of
your band to take part by putting up the visitors. Run music
workshops as well as dance workshops. It might help tremendously
without them feeling that they are being insulted.

Andy in Portland
...who was delighted to find that there was live music for part
of the evening at the Monday night Scandinavian dance with Sally
White (of the now defunct "Salem/Scio Express") and the only two
competent members of Lingonberry Jam (the band with their noses
stuck in their music that I referred to before). 
__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:00:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 15:02:18 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Binghamton Ball Time Warp
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b4e5cab5a9c0-AT-
[140.186.55.34]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>
>Last July (1999) my computer decided that it was Jan. 1, 1988 and has so
>dated all messages sent since then.  At least I didn't need to worry about
>Y2K.
>Rowena Roodman

Can't you fix it in a control panel or something?

Emily L. Ferguson
elf-AT-
cape.com  508-563-6822
New England landscapes, wooden boats and races, press photography
Beetle cats on the web at:
http://www.capecod.net/sqtg/nebcba/results/99champs.html


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:15:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 20:15:05 -0500 (EST)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000303201245.4642A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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This is to Philippe,

I've tried twice to send you an answer to your email to me via your
personal email, without luck.  Just wanted to say I will indeed be at
Ghent and will look forward to meeting you there and discussing your
response with you.

Julia





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 08:49:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 11:49:13 -0500 (EST)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000304114218.20498F-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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Dear Gloria and all interested,

Noone is trying to dictate, indeed, and I'd be delighted to have the next
dance, if only I could still dance (I have done ECD since I was
ten--that's now sixty years!--and have done new and old dances their way
with pleasure).  My quarrel is with the claims made by amateur historians
to knowing where the dances came from, and that they know how to do
them, or that these are folkdances, and that their reconstructions are correct 
historically.  

No, I do not think that a mistake is life-threatening, but that the truth
is beautiful and it is threatened.

Julia





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 08:49:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 11:49:13 -0500 (EST)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: New Harmony dance, 1826
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000304114218.20498F-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear Gloria and all interested,

Noone is trying to dictate, indeed, and I'd be delighted to have the next
dance, if only I could still dance (I have done ECD since I was
ten--that's now sixty years!--and have done new and old dances their way
with pleasure).  My quarrel is with the claims made by amateur historians
to knowing where the dances came from, and that they know how to do
them, or that these are folkdances, and that their reconstructions are correct 
historically.  

No, I do not think that a mistake is life-threatening, but that the truth
is beautiful and it is threatened.

Julia





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 08:52:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:55:44 -0700
From: mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com (Mary Devlin)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Help for concert please
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b01b4e58e531650-AT-
[216.26.4.81]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Brian, a student at Portland State University, is going to do a marimba
concert of Bach cello suites.  He's asked me to help him find a
choreographer and dancers (now expanded to a video, a slide show...
anything) to accompany him.

As far as I know we don't have folks in Portland who know allemandes,
gigues, sarabandes, bourees...

Can you give me sources to which to direct him?

We appreciate your help.  Please reply off-list to mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com

Thanks.

Mary


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 10:52:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 14:20:24 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Bare Necessities First Recording
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi, Folk:

Could someone privately give me the date when
Bare Necessities first recording was released?

Thank you in advance.

John
Bedford, Nova Scotia

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:09:04 PST
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 09:08:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contradancers=hulking troglodytes; ECDancers=higher life forms; was Re: Contra against ECD against Contra
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0003050900500.58694-100000-AT-
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Michael Richardson wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:42:22, Emily L. Ferguson said:
> >Half the dancers do walk-around swings, which might have the capacity to be
> >fast but mostly never achieve that.  And, to make matters worse, callers
> >actually teach walk-around swings as correct!
> 
> I am one of those callers who believe that it is correct -- a buzz 
> step is merely a stylistic variation, in my opinion.  However, we may 
> choose to agree to disagree on this one.


I started dancing in the 1930's, and we did the walk-around.  Didn't see a
buzz step until I danced with the college crowds in late 1940's in Boston.

The group from Fairlee Vermont that demonstrated 'old style' squares and
contras at NEFFA each year in the 1940's and 50's used the walk-around
step.

I am sorry to hear it called 'wrong' these days as it is a very pleasant
dance movement.  I find that using both the walk-sround and the buzz in an
evening of dancing makes for good variety as each suits a particular
groups of dances.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:30:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:29:49 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra against English
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.21.0003051013510.58694-100000-AT-
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On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Paul J. Stamler answered Dianna Shipman's question:
> 
> > P. S. what are "Southern squares" ? - I'm familiar with the country western
> > type of square dancing but had not heard of "Southern squares"
> 
> Basically traditional squares as done in rural areas of the American 
> south and midwest over the last century, without the accoutrements of 
> Modern Western Square Dancing (or "club dancing") such as costuming and 
> highly-intricate steps.

I grew up on the northwest edge of the Catskills Mountains (about 150
miles NW of New York City!) and did what I now discover are "Southern
squares."  Wow!  (Makes the fact that our area was included in the
Appalachaian federal handouts in the 1960's more palatable.)

I learned to dance in a long narrow hall with the band in one corner and
the kids under 12 in the square diagonally opposite.  The hand of hearing
old folks dance in the three sets nearest the band and the unspoken age
groupings decreased to "my " corner.  There were no instructions or walk
throughs given -- ever. By the time I was twelve, I was asked to join one
of the high school and/or going steady sets, but only if they needed
someone.  (I was dumbfounded to go to NEFFA in my twenties the ifrst time
and receive instruction in squares, but they did do different dances and 
lots more of them.)

Some memories of those dances:  A woman was well dressed for dancing if
she had her apron on.  The men went outside and shared a bottle.  Food at
intermission was coffee with cream and two sugars, for all ages, and
chocolate cake made in a big pan with seven-minute frosting on it.  The
frosting was as high as the cake.  No washing of hands before or
after.  (The W. C. had a real flush toilet and sink outside.)  The first
dance after intermission always had a grand chain in it. . .  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         


================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:52:17 -0500
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra against English
To: ECD-AT-
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On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:29:49 -0500 (EST) "Priscilla M. Burrage" .uvm.edu>
shared some wonderful recollections of square dancing in the Catskills. 
If she wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate it if she'd let us know about when
that was.

Mike Franch
Baltimore, Md.
________________________________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:55:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra against English
To: ECD-AT-
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On Sun, 5 Mar 2000, Michael S Franch wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:29:49 -0500 (EST) "Priscilla M. Burrage" .uvm.edu>
> shared some wonderful recollections of square dancing in the Catskills. 
> If she wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate it if she'd let us know about when
> that was.

About 1938-41.  At our beginning of WWII, quite a bit changed, including
the availibility of men as it was a poor area and some joined up
immediately for the money. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 11:30:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contradancers=hulking troglodytes; ECDancers=higher life forms; was Re: C...
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<  Ha!  Ha!  Ha!  Ha!  Ha!  Ha!  Ha!  >

What about crossovers?  Does that make me the Missing Link ???

In a message dated 3/5/2000 6:09:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu writes:

> I am sorry to hear it called 'wrong' these days as it is a very pleasant
>  dance movement.  I find that using both the walk-sround and the buzz in an
>  evening of dancing makes for good variety as each suits a particular
>  groups of dances.

I agree -- I do the same -- both, that is...

Reine Wonite
still (for the moment) in Chico, CA
================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:09:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Andrew Peterson <lyrlsbro-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contradancers=hulking troglodytes; ECDancers=higher life forms; was Re: Contra against ECD against Contra
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu> wrote:
> I started dancing in the 1930's, and we did the walk-around. 
> Didn't see a buzz step until I danced with the college crowds 
> in late 1940's in Boston.
> 
> The group from Fairlee Vermont that demonstrated 'old style'
> squares and contras at NEFFA each year in the 1940's and 50's 
> used the walk-around step.
> 
> I am sorry to hear it called 'wrong' these days as it is a
> very pleasant dance movement.  I find that using both the 
> walk-sround and the buzz in an evening of dancing makes for 
> good variety as each suits a particular groups of dances.
> 

I remember being taught at some time that either step is okay
and have always used them interchangably, even in the same
swing. In fact, I often do a buzz step and two beats from the
end of it change to a walk to prepare for moving into the next
figure. As long as both people swinging are stepping down on the
beat there should be no conflict between the two. If you are out
of synch there will always be a conflict no matter which step
you are using.

Andy in Portland
__________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 13:18:35 PST
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 21:18:29 +0000
From: Rhodri Davies <rhodd-AT-
dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: English dance in Lafayette?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Dianna Shipman wrote:

> Do you know of any English country dancers in Lafayette, Louisiana? If so,
> can you supply a contact person?

Not my region at all - wrong side of the Atlantic. Try the CDSS

Rhod


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Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 15:43:29 PST
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 18:42:06 -0500
From: "Linda M. Nelson" <lindan-AT-
capecod.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra against English - real life histories
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b4e89a309ffb-AT-
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Thank you, Priscilla, for sharing your experiences.

I enjoy hearing real  life stories of dance and its place in our
communities through the years -- and the stories will have so much variety
and richness from place to place and from decade to decade.  What i've
often noticed in lurking on this list is how often posters will refer to
their own past experience as the right way, or best way.  Here in the US,
we've been shaped by so many different incoming cultures, by the push West,
by wars civil and uncivil, by poverty and wealth, as well as by the common
human desire to move in time to music.  We can benefit greatly from that
variety.

I started dancing contras in the early 1970s, when i was a college student
in Rhode Island.  About once a month, one or two cars packed with students
would leave Rhode Island School of Design in Providence for Goff Hall in
Rehoboth.  I recall that there were usually about fifteen couples,
sometimes more.  Yes, we were taught the buzz step swing.  The caller was a
middle-aged gentleman (i'm not sure i ever paid any attention to his name -
ah, youth), and the band was always a record player.  It was a fun dance,
and the crowd was enthusiastic... much as the contradance series in
Rehoboth continues to this day -- now much larger and always with live
music.

When i graduated and moved to Cape Cod, i continued contradancing in Woods
Hole.  Never connected with all the other nearby opportunities.  Dropped
out of dance altogether in the 80's, then rediscovered dance in 1990.
Surprise -- contradancing now included a figure called a hey.  And i
quickly discovered ECD, and international folk dancing, and scandinavian,
and NEFFA, and the Boston dance scene and Pinewoods.  A feast in all
flavors!

Other stories out there?

Cheers - Linda


__________________________________________________
"Oh, yes.  It's vital to remember who you really are.
It's very important.  It isn't a good idea to rely on other
people or things to do it for you, you see.  They always
get it wrong."        (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery")
__________________________________________________


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Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:23:58 PST
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Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 19:30:39 -0800
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: valse musette
To: ECD-AT-
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I realize this is kind of off-topic -- OK, it's totally off-topic, but I'll
ask anyway.  Can anyone tell me what a "valse musette" is?  Recently I got a
notice in the mail advertising an "April in Paris Tango & Waltz Ball" and
the flyer said they'd be doing "vintage tango, valse musette, java (a
Parisian mazurka), les blues and other popular dances of the early 20th
century "Bal Musette" nightclubs."  I assume that a valse is a waltz, but
the only meaning I know for musette is a kind of bagpipe, which doesn't help
much.

Marian Phillips

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:50:29 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: valse musette
To: ECD-AT-
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Marian Phillips wrote:

 >Can anyone tell me what a "valse musette" is? Recently I got a
 >notice in the mail advertising an "April in Paris Tango & Waltz
 >Ball" and the flyer said they'd be doing "vintage tango, valse
 >musette, java (a Parisian mazurka), les blues and other popular
 >dances of the early 20th century "Bal Musette" nightclubs." I
 >assume that a valse is a waltz, but the only meaning I know for
 >musette is a kind of bagpipe, which doesn't help much.

A button accordion with pairs of reeds sufficiently out-of-tune as
to cause a tremolo effect from the "beats" is said to be in "musette"
tuning. There is a whole repertoire of French waltzes typically played
on such an instrument. They are the "valse musettes." I'm talking
about the music. I don't know anything about how they are danced.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 08:51:46 PST
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:51:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Newcastle: round or square?
To: ECD-AT-
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{snip}
>  In other words, while the verbiage and the feel of the
> configurations may be different, the people stand in the same
> places whether you call it "square" or "round."

But it'ss the moving that makes the dancing.

Try dancing it through thinking of it as a round.  Then dance it again
thinking of it as a square.

Having danced it both ways a number of times, I now think of it as a
circle dance happens to be for four couples -- until the "lines
across" when it magically turns into a square. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 18:12:29 -0500 (EST)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Contra against English - real life histories
To: ECD-AT-
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Responding to Linda's request for more stories... During my teen years, while 
my mother, Mireille, was gracefully flowing to strains of Purcell et al with 
Genny, Jack & Gay, I was squaring & contra-ing at Ethical Culture to the 
calls of up-and-coming young caller, Dick Sherman. (Come to think of it, I 
believe we did ONLY squares, not contras.)  I think the gorgeous Bob Carey 
sang during interludes. I found out many years later that Tony Saletan had 
attended many of those same sessions. My partners were guys from Little Red 
with names -- I kid you not -- like Itchy & Gooey. (Hey guys, where are you 
now? And are you hooked on English yet?) Before the dance sessions, we all 
took part in the Interracial Discussion Group. 50's, anyone?

Grandma Judy
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 21:57:58 +0100
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: valse musette
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Valse musette is danced in bals folks and bals populaires
(no-experience-needed, open-to-all, often open-air, dances) everywhere in
France. 
It is indeed a waltz, but  a fast 3/4 rhythm; flat feet, no particular
steps to learn, and, I feel, the antithesis of graceful country dancing as
we know it.


"Musette" also means the bag in which workers used to carry their midday
meal. I think the connexion is that at these bals populaires, everyone came
in their every day working clothes -- at least it was that way a century ago.

In a bal folk today, you just go along and join in -- the mprogram will
probably be the same everywhere, alternating valse, scottisch, bourree, and
--wait for it ! -- Circassian Circle.

Martin,
 in Grenoble, France.

 http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/scd.htm     
                  (dance groups,  some new dances, cycling ...)
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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 00:03:22 -0800
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: valse musette
To: ECD-AT-
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Martin from Grenoble wrote:

>"Musette" also means the bag in which workers used to carry their midday
>meal. I think the connexion is that at these bals populaires, everyone came
>in their every day working clothes -- at least it was that way a century ago.

A musette is also a bagpipe-- the instrument people dance to in parts of
France.   

Victoria Bestock 


Check out our WEB site, at   http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/
Read about our trip to the Rockies..... 
See the portfolio from Northwest New Year's Camp.....
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Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:21:26 PST
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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 13:07:04 -0500
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The wish
To: ECD-AT-
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  An English country dancer, rummaging through a Vermont antique
shop, came across a brass lamp and rubbed it. Naturally, a genie
appeared.  "What is your wish, oh master?" the genie said.
  "Don't I get *three* wishes?"
  "Sorry.  Just one.  Better make it good!"
  The dancer pondered a moment, then said, "I'd really like to do 
some English dancing where it originated, in good old England, 
to see Colin and Bob and all the others in action on their home turf."
  "And your wish?"
  "Well, boats make me seasick, and I'm afraid to fly, so please 
build a bridge to England so I can drive there."
  The genie was flabbergasted. "What?!? A bridge? Do you know 
how  far that is? How deep the ocean is? How much steel and 
concrete would be needed?"
  "Alright! Alright! So instead I'll just wish that English dancers and
contra dancers would say only nice things about each other."
  The genie, after pausing for a moment, said, "So, would you like 
that with two lanes or four?"



+++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
+++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, and 
  misc musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com; members.xoom.com/rounds
 FAX 1-917-677-5414 (NYC area code); Urgent message?  Please phone.
================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 12:46:00 -0800
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concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: valse musette
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf8876$25b683e0$d0ecadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Martin sez:
>>flat feet, no particular steps to learn<<

Thank you!  What a peculiar dance form.  Now my curiosity is piqued; I may
go to the PEERS practice just to see this.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:56:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 14:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: BACDS Playford Ball sold out / dance descriptions on the website
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JMR74J5LUS95MOLW-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks --

I've just been informed that the BACDS Playford Ball, scheduled for March 25,
in Oakland, California, is effectively full at 185 signups.  Out-of-towners
whose applications are already in the mail may still get in.

Also, the dance descriptions are up on the website.  (These are webified
versions of the instruction packets I distributed to West Coast dance leaders, 
sometimes more detailed than what ended up in the dance booklet, so it may be
worth your while to take a look.)  http://www.bacds.org/playford/dances/
should get you there.  Thanks to the dance composers who granted permission 
to include their dances - Erna-Lynne Bogue, Colin Hume, John & Cathy Millar,
and Victor Skowronski.

Best,

-- Alan (Playford 2000 "Knave of Hearts")


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:17:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:27:39 -0800
From: Mary Luckhardt <mary-AT-
luckhardt.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Newcastle
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <E12SWyA-0006Ts-00-AT-
mongoose.slip.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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The discussion on Newcastle was very interesting (especially Albert's 
point about the difference between round and square being whether you 
took hands at the beginning or not).  

My old Ren Faire ECD troup, the _Newcastle_ Country Dancers, taught us to 
glance out the corner of our eye and line up with the diagonal couple 
when we were on the corners.  It really helps to tidy up the set, and is 
a habit I have kept even 10 years later.  We were certainly thinking of 
it as an octagonal at that moment.

Another trick they taught for that dance, which brings the lines close 
together for the last fall back:  The ends take 2 steps forward then 2 
steps in toward the center.  This is a little crisper, and will 
definately keep the set from starting the fall back too far apart.

Just my comments on an old favorite!

Mary Luckhardt

>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:31:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:29:00 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: TESTING ONLY
To: ECD <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <38C84FDC.9569C489-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

What has happened to all ECD messages?

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:38:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:38:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: TESTING ONLY
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JMU5KMAUAM95QA7G-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

John Wood asked:

    What has happened to all ECD messages?

and I reply:

Traffic on this list is quite "bursty."  We have a flurry of conversation with
perhaps a dozen or two dozen posts in a day, and then we're quiet again until 
something else comes up.

If you haven't gotten any ECD messages lately and are worried that you fell
off the list or your mail is broken, you can check the ECD archive to see 
what's gone on lately.

Try

http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.htmlx

and follow links to either the comprehensive searchable archive or the
monthly archives.  (The monthly one is probably best for this purpose.)

-- Alan, list-owner



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 17:47:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 21:44:20 -0400
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: TESTING ONLY [2]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <38C85374.150BC4CC-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <01JMU5KMAUAM95QA7G-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Hi, Alan:

Thank you for a helpful reply. I really only wanted
to see if I WAS still on the list! It has happened to
me on Strathspey.

Regards, John

> Traffic on this list is quite "bursty."  We have a flurry of conversation with
> perhaps a dozen or two dozen posts in a day, and then we're quiet again until
> something else comes up.
> If you haven't gotten any ECD messages lately and are worried that you fell
> off the list or your mail is broken, you can check the ECD archive to see
> what's gone on lately.

 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:15:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:14:45 -0800
From: Ric Goldman <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance(s) in St. Louis this weekend
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bf8ab4$21f7d660$82c7aec7-AT-
rgoldman>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks,

I find that it'll be in St. Louis for the nonce and I was wondering if there
were any dances going on.  Please help keep the noise off the list and reply
directly to me.

Thanx in advance,
Ric Goldman
timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:06:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:42:58 +0000
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: "Sea Caves"
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002b01bf8b7c$727d8ee0$648901d4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Has anyone come across the dance "Sea Caves" - and if so please could
you tell me who wrote it or where it is from, and also if it has a set
(normally used) tune and if so - again, what is it please?

Thanks,
Trevor Monson.



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

http://im.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:17:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:15:49 -0500
From: "Registrar, Washington Spring Ball" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Washington Spring Ball, May 20, 2000
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20000311151509.00a7fcb0-AT-
209.183.254.10>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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           The Folklore Society of Greater Washington
                      Presents the Annual

                     Washington Spring Ball
                     Saturday, May 20, 2000

                             at the
          Whitby Gymnasium, National Cathedral School
                         Washington, DC

                            Music by
                 Elke Baker, violin, Marty Taylor,
            flute and concertina, Liz Donaldson, piano

                 Admission by prior reservation
   $21 for members of FSGW, BFMS or CDSS, $23 for nonmembers

             Reception: 7:30 p.m.  Dance: 8:00 p.m.
           Light refreshments served during the break


                          The Program
  Bar a Bar           Bellamira                 The Bishop
  Collier's Daughter  Green Willow              I Care Not for These Ladies
  Kelsterne Gardens   Levi Jackson Rag          Lilli Burlero
  Mad Robin           Miss deJersey's Memorial  Prince William
  Sally in Our Alley  Round About Our Coal Fire St. Margaret's Hill
  The Severn Bore     A Trip to Amsterdam       Trip to Kilburn
  Well Hall           Zephyrs and Flora

All dances will be talked through; more difficult dances will be prompted
for a few rounds  Information about the pre-ball practice session and
driving directions will be mailed with program booklets.  Work scholar-
ships are available for those needing one.  For more information, contact
Ball Chair Stephanie Smith at 301-229-3577 or the registrar, Roger W. Broseus
via email at English-AT-
fsgw.org. 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:17:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:16:30 -0500
From: "Registrar, Washington Spring Ball" <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Washington Spring Ball, Registration Form, May 20, 2000
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.20000311151604.00a92100-AT-
209.183.254.10>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       REGISTRATION for the FSGW's annual Washington Spring Ball
                               May 20, 2000
         Whitby Gym, National Cathedral School, Washington, DC
----------------------------------------------------------------------

NAME(s) as they are to appear on name tags.


First:_______________________ Initial: ___ Last:______________________

    |_|   Couple   |_| Male   |_| Female


First:_______________________ Initial: ___ Last:______________________

    |_| Male   |_| Female


Address: _____________________________________________________________


City: ______________________________ State: _____ Zip:________________


Phone: AC: _____ Number ____________


Legible Email address: _________________________


Reserve ____ places at $21 for members of FSGW |_|, BFMS |_|, CDSS |_|
Reserve ____ places at $23 for nonmembers.


|__| Overnight hospitality needed   |__| Allergy__________   |_| Prefer
Nonsmoking   |_| Separate Beds

Other special needs: _________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________

|__| I/we can provide overnight hospitality for _____ visitors.

Enclose check, payable to FSGW, with a self addressed, stamped, business
size envelope with appropriate postage (33cent plus a 22cent stamp for
EACH dance program booklet after the first); if no SASE is provided,
booklet(s) will be held at the practice session and at the door.

Send registration to:

Roger W. Broseus
6722 Surreywood Lane
Bethesda, MD 20817.

|__| CHECK HERE to receive confirmation via Email (including directions to
the location of the practice session and ball).  In this case:
      |__| Instruction booklet is to be held at the |__| ball registration
table or |__| ball practice (no SASE necessary).  Registration can not be
accomplished via Email.

(Print this with courier 10pt or other, fixed pitch font for best results.) 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:34:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:32:58 -0800
From: "Hamilton, Bruce" <bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The dance column in the CDSS News
To: "Ecd Digest (E-mail)" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
CC: 'Me' <bhamilton-AT-
macconnect.com>
Message-ID: <D9FF5B54A89AD31198A1009027B7086A0F8600-AT-
alex2.labs.agilent.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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I've just retired as editor for the English dance column in the CDSS
News, and am observing a pattern I've seen before:
* Before I was offered the job, I had no inclination to reflect on
  what the column was for, nor what the editor did.
* While considering the job, I had no data with which to reflect on
  those questions.
* While doing the job, I had no time to reflect.
* Now that I'm done, I want to reflect on it.

So here's a little reflection.  Caroline Batson, the overall editor of
the News, pretty much gave me a free hand -- she wanted good dances,
balance, and to be careful about assigning credit and ownership (I
wanted those things too, so that looked easy).  Other than that, there
was no statement of the purpose of the column, no goal that we might
achieve or not achieve by our choices or presentation.  I wound up
picking these dances (listed in chronological order):
* Puck's Deceit (Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly, OR, new)
* Now is the Month of Maying (Jenny Beer, PA, new)
* Lacemaker (multiple devisors, tune by Geoffrey Mendham, UK, 20C)
* Sarah (Gary Roodman, NY, new)
* Fast Packet (Bob Lilley, UK, 20C)
* Albany Assembly (Victor Skowronski, MA, new)
* Black Bart's Birthday (Alisa & Allen Dodson, CA, new)
* The Turning of the Year (Mike Richardson, WA, new)
* Love, Port and Sherry (Ron Jones, UK, 20C)
* Sally In Our Alley (Reconstruction by Jacqueline Schwab, MA, 18C)
 (to appear in the next issue)
Some of those listed as "new" are new dances to old tunes.

I didn't try to figure out my publishing criteria in advance. I
discovered these as I actually considered dances:
* Give exposure to meritorious but little-known dances (both old and
  new) and their devisors (especially those in my end of the country.
  CDS is working to be less of a New-England-centric organization, and
  one of the ways they do that is to push positions of responsibility
  out into other parts of the country.  I have some sense of the
  courage it takes to do that and the disruption it causes, and I
  applaud them for it.  And I try to live up to the charge).
* Use the column's implicit endorsement to remind readers of the value
  of simple dances. This is the only goal I had in mind going in; I
  thought I could redress what I saw as an imbalance toward flowy,
  complex dances.
* Fast-track dances that deserve rapid exposure. I thought the
  reception that "Sarah" was getting earned it a place, even though
  Gary planned to put it into his next book.
* Set an example by including as much background material as possible
  and always assigning credit. This probably goes unnoticed, but I
  believe every little action helps, and inaction definitely hurts.
* In publishing "Sally," the problem was the opposite of too little
  exposure: everyone had a copy of the dance, nearly all of them
  informally-collected (Nicolas' reconstruction is little circulated
  here in the States). I wanted to give everyone access to
  Jacqueline's version. It was also a chance to get Walsh's words in
  front of callers, and background material as well.
* A wide mixture of sources and styles.

Wording was a choice, too.  I thought that I'd just print things the
way their devisors wrote them, but it's not that simple.  The News
wants consistency between issues, some descriptions were ambiguous,
and sometimes (e.g. for new dances) the author liked several different
wordings!  One danced changed substantively between its devising and
its current performance, and I found I had to decide what it is that
we're preserving and propagating.  (I think we're propagating current
performance, and preserving *information about* the past. But that's a
new question for me, and I'm still chewing on it).

Similarly, my rejection criteria got developed on the fly:
* The author is already well-published (Gary is an exception, noted above).
* The dance doesn't dance well (I already knew about this one).
* The tune is taken. Someone submitted a dance set to "Miss Gordon of
  Gight." It's an interesting dance, but I regard the tune as
  belonging now to Easter Morn.
* Too complicated. I guessed that some dances take so long to teach
  that they would rarely get done.

Stepping back, I see some of my biases in these criteria :-)

I've begun to get a sense of what Julia Sutton said here recently,
that this task is harder than it seems.  Even for dances composed in
this generation I sometimes found it hard to get accurate information,
and for every question answered I often found an equal number of new
questions raised.

So... what do you think about this?
* What purposes are served by a column like this one?
* What should the acceptance criteria be?
* If the editor does more than pick from what comes in -- asks people
  who haven't submitted dances, looks for dances with no champion to
  submit them -- what should he/she look for? Where should he/she
  look?

Before I leave this, I give sincere thanks to Robin Hayden. She was
great to work with as co-editor, filling in my lapses, putting up with
my impatience, and helping try out the dances. Thanks also to Laurie
Andres for typesetting the music. I always planned to get him the
tunes in plenty of time, but rarely did.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Hamilton			Agilent Technologies, Inc.  MS-4AD
Phone 650-857-2818		PO Box 10151
Fax   650-852-8092		Palo Alto, CA  94303-0889
bruce_hamilton-AT-
agilent.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:46:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:46:22 -0600 (CST)
From: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The dance column in the CDSS News
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <200003131946.NAA20117-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hamilton, Bruce writes:
> 
[many good points clipped]

   As one of the people that have asked to take your place, let me say
thanks for posting this.  It gives me many good things to think about
as I try to figure out how to get started.

> So... what do you think about this?
> * What purposes are served by a column like this one?

   I see it as a way to bring dances to the attention of the dance community.
These could be dances that wouldn't otherwise be seen or that would only be
done by a small number of people.  As you mentioned it can also be a way to
influence the kinds of dances that are being done, and how they are being
done.  This may be a worthy goal, but needs to be handled carefully.

> * What should the acceptance criteria be?

   I'm sort of waiting to be told by the powers that be, but I think your
point about publishing dances that might not otherwise be published is a
good one.

> * If the editor does more than pick from what comes in -- asks people
>   who haven't submitted dances, looks for dances with no champion to
>   submit them -- what should he/she look for? Where should he/she
>   look?

   "A fair question and one that in recent weeks 'as been much on my mind."
(from the Flying Sheep sketch from Monty Python)  I think your point of
getting input from different areas of the country is a good one.  Hopefully
being in the Midwest I can do something about that.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:11:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:11:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen D. Corrsin" <corrsin1-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hamilton's column-o
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <20000314171107.91392.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This is in reply to Bruce Hamilton's message about the CDSS Newsletter dance 
column. I'm reminded of something that disturbed me in the March-April issue 
-- I don't know if it was Bruce's column, however.

A dance appeared, "Love, Port and Sherry," by Ron Jones. It even had a 
copyright statement and said "used with permission."

However, in the notes, it referred to "collected by" yet another person at a 
festival, 10 years after the copyright date. I'm puzzled by this. Is this a 
hangover of the old Sharparooney mentality, that "folk" songs and dances are 
"collected" rather than "composed"? I just don't understand why the fact of 
"collection" is mentioned at all. Does it really mean "so and so brought it 
to the editors' attention"?

May sound nitpicking, but I don't think so. Giving credit to creators of 
dances, music, songs, etc etc is something that should be taken quite 
seriously. There are still too many... well I will not hop on my favorite 
hobby horse right now. That's a story for another day.

Steve Corrsin


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:41:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 17:40:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The dance column in the CDSS News
To: "Ecd Digest (E-mail)" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10003141659390.14067-100000-AT-
qbert.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I have appreciated having dances published in the CDSS News for several
reasons.  One was that it significantly augmented my initially very meagre
collection of dance instructions.  Another was that it was often a timely
distribution of current activity in the dance composition world.  It also
served to expose me to a variety of sources, many of which I might not
have discovered on my own, certainly not as quickly.  I find, too, that a
good number of the dances that I call with some regularity have been
published there, and it has been my primary source for many of them.

One thing that I feel would help dancers and dance leaders in the US more
would be to bring more of the current output from the UK over here.  
Since the bulk of the membership is in the US, it would give this very
deserving source considerably broader exposure.  There are many
publications in the UK which do not make it into the US market, and many
of them appear to be published and distributed on a small scale so that
they often aren't available through shops which can provide convenient
payment options for American customers, such as a Visa option or an
account at an American bank which will accept checks in USD drawn on US
banks.  (Blackwell's in Oxford is easy to buy from, but I don't think they
carry these things typically, though I could be wrong.  Cotswold Music
seems to publish quite a few of these books, but as far as I know they
don't take Visa or US checks.  AADS has quite a lot of the British
material, and has an account with a bank in Colorado, but it seems to take
a while between news of the publication of a book I'd like to get and when
it appears in their listing on the web.) 

The idea is not to make buying this material unnecessary -- it is more to
stimulate the appetite, and encourage folks over here to buy more of their
publications -- perhaps if we bought more, CDSS would carry more, or the
sources themselves would make more convenient payment methods possible.
As it is, we remain largely ignorant of much of the activity in England.

It might be possible for the CDSS bookstore to coordinate sales of certain
publications which they don't intend to carry all the time but might carry
for a limited period in connection with the publication of a dance from a
published collection.  They could announce in a footnote to the dance
published in CDSS News something like "this dance is from the collection
_Such and Such_ by So and So, and the CDSS shop has a limited number of
copies for sale..." and then when they were gone, that would be it, unless
demand justified obtaining a second batch.  They might even offer a
subscription service for folks who were regular customers (I'd probably be
one!).

	*		*		*

Another thing that I think would help would be to clarify how the
selection process is started -- I don't recall seeing anything soliciting
dance compositions for possible publication, so I wonder just how they get
into the queue.  Does one wait for an invitation to submit dances, or
suggestions for dances?  Or are the editors innundated with material
without asking for it?  Or do they simply draw on their great knowledge of
what is going on and skim off what intrigues them, along the guidelines
they have established?  It would be good to have that clarified, and
published along with the publication of the dances.


Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

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Trevor
I believe the dance was written by Jeff Green of Victoria, Australia. The
first time I came acrross it was about 3 or 4 years ago at Eastbourne
Festival. I seem to remember that the spelling was 'See' (i.e. a Diocese or
similar) but I may be mistaken. I don't think it has a special tune but Ron
Coxall was the one who presented it, so he's the one to contact.
John Turner


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>Has anyone come across the dance "Sea Caves" - and if so please could
you tell me who wrote it or where it is from, and also if it has a set
(normally used) tune and if so - again, what is it please?

Thanks,
Trevor Monson.
<
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Subject: questions about Nonesuch
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   I'm looking at Sharp's version of Nonesuch (in Keller and Shimer) and
comparing it to the Playford versions printed there.  The only real change
that I can see that Sharp made is in Part III where he replaced "sides all
to the right and the left, set and turn single, this again" with "partners
half side across the set, turn single right. Partners half side back to
place, turn single right."   I guess I can see why the change was made,
because if you assume that the chorus figure, with everyone springing into
the center of the set, only takes 16 beats, then that only leaves 16 beats
for the siding, setting and turning, and that's not enough time.  However
the siding, setting and turning single would fit in better with Part I
(up a double and back twice, then set and turn single twice) and make this
better fit the pattern of a USA dance.  Do you think that the dancers in
Playford's time were very fast at siding, setting and turning?  Or do you
think that they were more leisurely about getting into the center of
the set?  That would make Part III be twice through the music instead of
once.  This would give each person 4 beats to get to the center and face
up or down, instead of only 2.  If they retired to original places in
the same way in Part V this would eliminate the extra A music at the
end of the dan