Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:56:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:55:59 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi, Folk:

Sorry to bother with a small request:

Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
Players, Lanark]

Thanks, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 06:03:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:59:28 +0100
From: Barry McNamara <barry-AT-
folkdance.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001601bf0c0c$df9ccf80$fda3883e-AT-
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References: <37F4A14E.F8ADAF9-AT-
accesscable.net>

Hi John,
In response to your  request posted on the ECD list,for Nic Broadbridges
E-mail address,  please see as follows.
 SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
hope this is of assistance.

Regards
       Barry McNamara
                                    Salisbury, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:55 PM
Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge


> Hi, Folk:
>
> Sorry to bother with a small request:
>
> Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
> Players, Lanark]
>
> Thanks, John
> Bedford, Nova Scotia
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:41:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:46:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991001144608.24701.rocketmail-AT-
web2902.mail.yahoo.com>
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I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.

Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT

--- victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:

> But if your friend is interested in scholarly research about dance,
> and not
> in actually dancing, they'd be better off joining the ECD list, and
> talking
> to people like Julia Sutton and Rich Galloway. 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:19:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:17:33 -0400
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Sad News
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199910011517.LAA127568-AT-
pimout7-int.prodigy.net>
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Word recently reached us here in Kentucky of the death of Gib Gilbert of
Denver. Gib was a fine caller of traditional western squares, a member of
Calico and Boots, a leader within the LLoyd Shaw Foundation, and a regular
participant, caller, and leader in Berea's Christmas Country Dance School.
He was also a fine person; exuberant, kindly, caring and jolly, with a
great commitment to community dance and dance heritage. He is survived by
two sons, the Reverend Kent Gilbert of Berea, and Craig Gilbert of Denver.
He will be greatly missed by many.

Perhaps some of the Colorado readers can add more to this. I last saw Gib
on the occasion of his son Kent's wedding to Jan Pearce last April, and am
glad to have such a happy last memory...his loss reminds me to cherish my
friends and our time together, and to cherish the great sense of community
and caring which I find within the dance world.

Susan Booker
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:42:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991001130239.12924C-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
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  When I used the term "circle dances" in my posts I was not referring to
the circle dances in Playford, which are dances for couples using the same
sort of figures as the longways ECD dances. I was trying to avoid using a
word like for a type of circle dance, like "bransle" as if it were generic
enough to include more times and places than it does.
  For centuries, if not millenia, dance in Europe appears to have meant a
group of people taking hands and travelling in a line or circle, while 
singing a song. From the fourteenth century onwards dances for couples in
a line appear, as simple processionals, but the earlier type of dance
remains.  In the fifteenth century some dances become complex enough to be
written down.  A few begin to resemble ECD figures, but a verse/chorus
structure is lacking.  Circle/line dances remain.  In the sixteenth
century there is an explosion of dance types, and dance starts take on the
look we expect today. Circle/line dances with a simple sequence of steps
repeated indefinately are still done by all classes into the sixteenth
century.
  It's hard for us to appreciate how radical a break with the past it was
to have a dance for a fixed number of people doing a fixed set of figures
for a fixed set of verses with different figures for each verse.  It's
like discovering that all you thought was normal and natural about musical
scales was undreamed-of in the middle ages.  This systemisation and
"refinement" of dance was a product of rennaissance courts that gradually
trickled downward in society.  The "circle dances" in Playford are
products of this stylistic evolution.  They're a quite different animal
from "circle dances" of the bransle variety.

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 12:27:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:27:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7aa99d8f.2526651e-AT-
aol.com>
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> There's a lot of dance and music in Seattle

And splendid music and dance it is, and a splendid time one always has there, 
too! 

Nilos Nevertheless, who does not enjoy herself on behalf of any local, 
regional or federal government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:32:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:37:33 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf0c4c$c9d524a0$18eaadce-AT-
default>
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Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.

I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
other way round.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:55:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:55:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991001202403.25171A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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To all involved in the debate on dance history, specifically English
country dance.

The problems that most of you bring up are unfortunately common, the
questions in most cases without answers.  But I can say, as one who has
spent a lifetime in the scholarly pursuit of this vexing subject (while
also dancing--one skill does not preclude the other!) that
much of what you posit as fact is in fact (!) fancy.  Without hard
evidence (that is, WRITTEN OR PAINTED AT THE TIME WE ARE DISCUSSING, OR
EARLIER), specific enough to hang one's hat on, we do not know!!!  The statement
that dance became more complex and underwent a rapid and unusual
development in the Renaissance (what centuries do you mean?) is very
questionable.  It is SIMPLY  that from this period we have hard
evidence, that's all--in other words, there was enough leisure to allow
for people to write about dance! There were people who specialized in
dance. Those who did were employed by the upper classes, and were
not about to tell us what the folk did (except for Arbeau, with
regard to villages and towns, perhaps). Furthermore, we have no dance
manuals prior to the 15th century!  Without evidence, what do we know?  

We are still at the beginning of searching out all this evidence.  More
discoveries about the 15th and 16th centuries are coming to light each
year. The trouble is that most of what is available in print is badly out
of date and full of wishful thinking.  Furthermore, people like Cecil
Sharp invented a great deal in order to be able to do the dances they
found written down, but unexplained, in Playford and other sources; they
invented in their own image, however, or in what they fantasized was 'folk
dance.' Sharp himself knew exactly what he had done, but when he
discovered what siding really was (in the 18th century, by the way, not
earlier) and tried to change his own invention, noone in his group
would allow it! As for Melusine Wood, her ignorance is overwhelming; she
was not trained as a scholar, and she certainly knew little of what we now
know. Her ignorance about music was, by the way, dangerous, for she
fostered notions that persist until this day (e.g., that we know what
medieval dance was).

Judging materials of the past carefully, omitting all speculation, and
looking always for trustworthy sources, is hard work.  For those of you
who are seriously interested in this field, I welcome you--we need good
people who care.

With regard to the mention of Thomas Morley's recognition of indigenous
characteristics of English dance, I'm sorry to say he knew nothing of
dance history! In the 16th and 17th c. our typical country dances were
"known" everywhere to be of English origin.  That doesn't make it true!
Sorry.

Thanks to everyone for saying such nice things about me!
Julia Sutton




On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Heyer wrote:

> Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.
> 
> I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
> into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
> product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
> If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
> trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
> Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
> tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
> rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
> Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
> other way round.
> 
> Marian
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:55:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:55:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991001202403.25171A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

To all involved in the debate on dance history, specifically English
country dance.

The problems that most of you bring up are unfortunately common, the
questions in most cases without answers.  But I can say, as one who has
spent a lifetime in the scholarly pursuit of this vexing subject (while
also dancing--one skill does not preclude the other!) that
much of what you posit as fact is in fact (!) fancy.  Without hard
evidence (that is, WRITTEN OR PAINTED AT THE TIME WE ARE DISCUSSING, OR
EARLIER), specific enough to hang one's hat on, we do not know!!!  The statement
that dance became more complex and underwent a rapid and unusual
development in the Renaissance (what centuries do you mean?) is very
questionable.  It is SIMPLY  that from this period we have hard
evidence, that's all--in other words, there was enough leisure to allow
for people to write about dance! There were people who specialized in
dance. Those who did were employed by the upper classes, and were
not about to tell us what the folk did (except for Arbeau, with
regard to villages and towns, perhaps). Furthermore, we have no dance
manuals prior to the 15th century!  Without evidence, what do we know?  

We are still at the beginning of searching out all this evidence.  More
discoveries about the 15th and 16th centuries are coming to light each
year. The trouble is that most of what is available in print is badly out
of date and full of wishful thinking.  Furthermore, people like Cecil
Sharp invented a great deal in order to be able to do the dances they
found written down, but unexplained, in Playford and other sources; they
invented in their own image, however, or in what they fantasized was 'folk
dance.' Sharp himself knew exactly what he had done, but when he
discovered what siding really was (in the 18th century, by the way, not
earlier) and tried to change his own invention, noone in his group
would allow it! As for Melusine Wood, her ignorance is overwhelming; she
was not trained as a scholar, and she certainly knew little of what we now
know. Her ignorance about music was, by the way, dangerous, for she
fostered notions that persist until this day (e.g., that we know what
medieval dance was).

Judging materials of the past carefully, omitting all speculation, and
looking always for trustworthy sources, is hard work.  For those of you
who are seriously interested in this field, I welcome you--we need good
people who care.

With regard to the mention of Thomas Morley's recognition of indigenous
characteristics of English dance, I'm sorry to say he knew nothing of
dance history! In the 16th and 17th c. our typical country dances were
"known" everywhere to be of English origin.  That doesn't make it true!
Sorry.

Thanks to everyone for saying such nice things about me!
Julia Sutton




On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Heyer wrote:

> Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.
> 
> I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
> into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
> product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
> If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
> trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
> Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
> tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
> rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
> Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
> other way round.
> 
> Marian
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:53:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:53:00 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37f6548c.2c8f.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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And according to Rich himself, you can thank Lyrl and I for introducing him to
ECD back in the early '70's.

Andy in Portland, OR

>
>I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
>Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
>with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
>considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
>sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 12:28:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:27:01 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #594
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9n3LATAFyl93EwYN-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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References: <37EDD800.2CF68B4F-AT-
earthlink.net>

... About dance descriptions (and details) on the web.

In message <37EDD800.2CF68B4F-AT-
earthlink.net>, Laurie Andres
<lcandres-AT-
earthlink.net> writes
>Ack! Oh no, not more standardization! The death of local tradition and vibrancy.
>
>Regards,
>Laurie Andres

I wouldn't have thought it would be qualitatively different to having
dances written down on paper... The Cotswold Morris 'Black Book' is
taken as a reference source but doesn't stop diversity. (Far from it :-)

If it's the matter of writing the dances down in a standard fashion,
think of it more in terms of agreeing how to specify who the author is,
what good tunes are, what the copyright information is etc - not that a
strict vocabulary has to be used when describing the dance itself! 
-- 
Regards,
  Martin Kiff
  mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:12:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 15:12:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991002142616.193A-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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  Elizabeth did *not* discover country dance in Sussex and bring to the
court.  That statement was part of the original "I was told that..." post
on this subject that I have been disagreeing with.  There are a number of
references that say Elizabeth enjoyed watching country dances.  There are
references to country dances in Elizabethan plays and literature.  There
is genuine uncertainty as to how much resemblence these country dances
bear to the country dances puplished fifty years later by Playford. The
reference quoted in an earlier post to "the old and new country dances" is
one that intrigues scholars. Dance in England and on the Continent was
undergoing a great deal of change during the last quarter of the sixteenth
century and the first quarter of the seventeenth.  Were the "new country
dances" older dances with new, more fashionable figures grafted on to
them?  Morris dance in this period was undergoing a transition from an
improvisational dance to a dance by sets of people with figures that seem
to borrow somewhat from sword dances done in court.  [Morris is another
subject about which too little is known and far too much is speculated.]
  My pet [bias alert!] theory is that is that english country dance is
what resulted when gentlemen and ladies started doing the Italian-based
court dances without the fussy Italian steps when they were away from
London.  This assumes that the English disliked the Italian steps, an
assumption I cannot prove.  ("Care not to dance loftily..")  It assumes
that country dances used simpler steps (until the french got hold of them)
another unprovable notion.  I would like to think that fancier figures
with simple steps proved a combination very appealling to a wide range of
people, and that this was what was "English" and "country" about these
dances, not a supposed origin among the peasantry. 

--Mary Railing  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:40:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:46:01 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: vampires
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf0d73$566dcda0$92eeadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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I was thinking about vampire stories the other day, and I realized that I
get irritated at the way the humans behave in vampire novels and movies.  I
mean, if you were faced with someone who was reliably claiming to be 500
years old, wouldn't you be able to think of at least one or two questions
you wanted to ask him before he bit you in the neck?  Questions that come
immediately to mind:

a)  what kind of stepping (if any) did they do in country dancing in the
1650s?
b)  who invented ECD?
c)  what kind of dances did the peasants do in the Renaissance?

And so on.  I'm sure everyone could think of a million questions,
dance-related or not, but does anyone ever do that in the stories?  No, the
authors always postulate people with no historical curiosity or knowledge
whatsoever.

Of course, I can see the literary problem with this:  postulate Julia Sutton
faced with someone born in 1499, and the genre of your novel immediately
changes from gothic to comedy -- some poor vampire withered by a shaft from
the rising sun just as he's flapping his arms screaming "I can't remember!
I can't remember!  MAYBE there was some French influence, but who was paying
attention?"

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 07:37:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:36:47 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Email to Gene Murrow
To: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT-
compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <199910031037_MC2-8772-BC04-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Dear friends and colleagues,

If any personal or critical mail sent to me was recently rejected, please
re-send it.  Otherwise, please ignore/delete this message.  My email
address has NOT changed.

Please note that my address:  gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com  [equivalently
71332.2116-AT-
compuserve.com]  IS STILL VALID.  
Compuserve is correcting the problems with the account that resulted from a
recently installed update..

My (and, presumably, Compuserve's) apologies for any inconvenience this may
have caused you.

Best wishes,

Gene Murrow
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:48:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:55:07 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991003095507.00865760-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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At 07:46 AM 10/1/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
>Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
>with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
>considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
>sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.
>
>Barbara Ruth
>New Haven, CT

Boy did you ever misread what I wrote!!  This was a complement to Rich, not
a slam!  But in case others,  and especially Rich, misread it also-- here's
an attempt at clarification.

I've no idea where you got the notion that being knowledgable about dance
history makes someone a poor dancer, but you seemed to have jumped tot hat
conclusion.  What I said about Rich is that I regard him as one of the
people on the list worth consulting about dance history.  If a newcomer to
Seattle  wants to learn to dance well, they should come dancing, where
there are many fine dancers to learn from (but not Rich-- he is a fine
dancer somewhere else).  But the person I was writing to DIDN"T sound
interested in learning to dance. They just wanted to know ABOUT dance
history in relation to geneology. Their questions would not be answered by
coming dancing where there are many fine dancers, but not many people with
the kind of expertese found in some people on this list.   They need to
talk to a researcher, and I gave Rich and Julia as two examples among many
on the list with this additional expertese.  Its YOUR assumption, not mine,
that someone with this kind of knowlege must also be a bad dancer.  I've
danced with Rich at Pinewoods, and took a class in dance reconstruction
with him, and think highly of him as dancer, historian, and human being.   

Victoria Bestock 

  

I >
>--- victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:
>
>> But if your friend is interested in scholarly research about dance,
>> and not
>> in actually dancing, they'd be better off joining the ECD list, and
>> talking
>> to people like Julia Sutton and Rich Galloway. 
>
>
>=====
>Barbara Ruth
>New Haven, CT
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:19:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:58:08 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37F79930.A64A2117-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <37F4A14E.F8ADAF9-AT-
accesscable.net> <001601bf0c0c$df9ccf80$fda3883e-AT-
freeserve.co.uk>

Thank you for your help. Regards, John

Barry McNamara wrote:

> Hi John,
> In response to your  request posted on the ECD list,for Nic Broadbridges
> E-mail address,  please see as follows.
>  SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
> hope this is of assistance.
>
> Regards
>        Barry McNamara
>                                     Salisbury, UK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
> To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:55 PM
> Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
>
> > Hi, Folk:
> >
> > Sorry to bother with a small request:
> >
> > Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
> > Players, Lanark]
> >
> > Thanks, John
> > Bedford, Nova Scotia
> >
> >



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:27:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 15:26:15 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Imagined Village
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <37F7D807.21125670-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello all,

At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined Village:
Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if anyone
else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between Sharp
and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the early
20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of that
early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the aesthetic
of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus what
we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
(certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for me to
digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was had
by all!

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
steph-AT-
boo.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:09:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:09:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910031705250.11813-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
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On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:29:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 16:41:03 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37F7871E.5BA8-AT-
javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <3.0.6.32.19991003095507.00865760-AT-
oz.net>

About Barbara Ruth's frisky reply

paul/victoria bestock wrote:
 
> Boy did you ever misread what I wrote!!  This was a complement to Rich, not
> a slam!  But in case others,  and especially Rich, misread it also-- here's
> an attempt at clarification.

Vicky, 

I think Barbara's riposte was purely tongue-in-cheek.  We are all in
agreement with you!
  
Mary Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:13:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 20:14:29 -0400
From: "M.A.J. McKenna" <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: MDDL, was Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991003201429.007aecc0-AT-
mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 05:09 PM 10/3/99 -0400, susie lorand wrote:
>
>The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
>Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
>sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

that would be:

http://web.syr.edu/~hytelnet/mddl/

(was that a foot-together jump?)

maryn mck.
atlanta
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:58:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 22:57:30 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: MDDL, was Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F841CA.9C8BC6A7-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3.0.5.32.19991003201429.007aecc0-AT-
mindspring.com>

Thank you both for the reference, although my current research interest
is in the aesthetics of ECD rather than morris.  I'm sure the book
caused quite a stir in the ritual community.  My familiarity with
Georgina Boyes is more as a ballad and folksong scholar; it seems to me
that her mention of Sharp's work with the Playford dances was cursory at
best.

Stephanie

M.A.J. McKenna wrote:
> 
> At 05:09 PM 10/3/99 -0400, susie lorand wrote:
> >
> >The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
> >Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
> >sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)
> 
> that would be:
> 
> http://web.syr.edu/~hytelnet/mddl/
> 
> (was that a foot-together jump?)
> 
> maryn mck.
> atlanta
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:18:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 02:17:23 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pinewoods Pictures
To: Recipient List Suppressed: ;
Message-ID: <v04205501b41df5e64f18-AT-
[206.72.193.121]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:26:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:24:22 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85652.094-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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re: rich's value to the dance community:
  i can attest to the fact that, if nothing else, rich is cute. 
  sharon "thanks for the dance at the ball, rich" mckinley, and darn
glad that he's part of the balto-dc dance community, but not for any
government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:27:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:26:39 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f856cf.015-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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hey, susie;
  i never got to say goodbye. but i guess i'll see you saturday! 2
weekends in arow, what a treat!
  p.s. several people said very nice things about you at the ball.
isn't it nice to be loved?
  moi

>>> "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> 10/03 5:09 PM >>>

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined
Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if
anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between
Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the
early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of
that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the
aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus
what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for
me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere. 
(I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was
had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:32:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:31:30 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pinewoods Pictures
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f857e8.090-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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mary beth;
  good stuff. sam is adorable! and you had daron; i LOVE that lady!
  enjoy, sharon

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 2:17 AM >>>
I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at
Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html 

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:40:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:40:02 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f859ed.077-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECD folk;
  oops, sorry;  never answer morris list messages (replies go to
sender) and ecd list messages (replies go to the list) in the same
sitting. but of course i was only saying something nice. for once.
  sharon

>>> Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> 10/04 7:26 AM >>>
hey, susie;
  i never got to say goodbye. but i guess i'll see you saturday! 2
weekends in arow, what a treat!
  p.s. several people said very nice things about you at the ball.
isn't it nice to be loved?
  moi

>>> "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> 10/03 5:09 PM >>>

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined
Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if
anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between
Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the
early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of
that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the
aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus
what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for
me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.

(I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was
had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:42:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:41:06 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pinewoods Pictures
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85a30.096-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

AAAAAAAH! did it again. i give up.
  sharon

>>> Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> 10/04 7:31 AM >>>
mary beth;
  good stuff. sam is adorable! and you had daron; i LOVE that lady!
  enjoy, sharon

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 2:17 AM >>>
I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at
Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html 

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:44:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:44:04 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85aeb.012-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
  sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
not an official list-server for any government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:56:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:55:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Email to Gene Murrow
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <bfd059f.2529efc8-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gene Murrow (may his tribe increase) wrote:

If any personal or critical mail sent to me was recently rejected, please
re-send it.  Otherwise, please ignore/delete this message.  My email
address has NOT changed.

Please note that my address:  gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com  [equivalently
71332.2116-AT-
compuserve.com]  IS STILL VALID.  
Compuserve is correcting the problems with the account that resulted from a
recently installed update..

My (and, presumably, Compuserve's) apologies for any inconvenience this may
have caused you.

Yeah, c'mon Gene, 'fess up.  It's your evil twin, Skippy (probably delirious 
from a vampire bite) rerouting your mail through the clandestine address of a 
revolutionary cadre in (troubled country of choice here) and since you can't 
keep him under control your forced into making these lame excuses about 
updates.

We all have to face our dark side sometime, Gene.  Go re-read Jung.

Nilos Nevertheless, who worries about such things.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:49:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English Country Dacing (sic)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910041142290.18139-100000-AT-
battlezone.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Mike Mudrey wrote:

> English Country Dacing calling by Helene Cornelius music by
> Mike Briggs of McDuffs (Scottish and Contra)
> and 
> Karen Cornelius of Far From Home (Celtic)

Sounds fishy to me!  Is that something like Scottish Country Salmoning?
Or is it more like smelting (we do that over here in Michigan sometimes,
or at least we used to).

Eric Arnold, TFIC (tongue firmly in cheek...)
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:04:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:02:35 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F8DDAA.FC44A3D7-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <s7f85aeb.012-AT-
loc.gov>

Sharon A McKinley wrote:

> actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
> especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
> easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
> what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
>   sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
> not an official list-server for any government agency

There are pros and cons to both ways of setting up a list (reply to list
vs reply to sender).  The two major reasons for reply to list are:

This *is* a mailing list.  Most of the responses will be to the list.
Therefore, it's more inconvenient if you have to retype the list address
every time you want to respond to a posting.

When lists are set up to respond to the individual responders often just
hit "reply" and many discussions come quickly to a halt because the
responses went to the sender and not the list.  Now, for some lists that
makes more sense.  I don't think it makes sense for this one, but I'm not
in charge.  :-)

--Charlene

--
If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried
before.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:32:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:32:33 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37f8e4b1.69e0.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the list address.
I find this extremely annoying because I don't usually intend to respond only
to the individual sender and I sometimes forget to change it to the list address.
This results in a general reply only going to one person. I have another list
I'm on which does the same thing. Most replies are directed to the general interest
of everyone and the list should be set up to make general rather than individual
replies.

Andy in Portland 
(notice that I *did* remember to change the address)


Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:
>actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
>replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
>especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
>easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
>what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
>  sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
>not an official list-server for any government agency
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:24:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 14:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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elk.uvm.edu>
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On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Sharon A McKinley wrote:

> actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
> especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
> easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
> what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?

Well, there are two lists -- ECD and strathspey -- that have a lot of
overlap and both send to the list.  Maybe the morris list should change?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:29:55 PST
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991004183853.5430.rocketmail-AT-
web2903.mail.yahoo.com>
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Sharon, I agree completely.  I didn't include that in my original
post because I'm not sure how it relates to his qualifications as a
choice of partner to not dance with.  I guess it could go either way,
depending on how easily one is distracted by the sight of a
good-looking man on the dance floor.

Personally, I can think of many people I would rather not dance with
more than Rich.

Barbara Ruth and not an admirer of Rich Galloway for any government
agency or organization, public or private.



--- Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:

>   i can attest to the fact that, if nothing else, rich is cute. 
>   sharon "thanks for the dance at the ball, rich" mckinley, and
> darn
> glad that he's part of the balto-dc dance community, but not for
> any
> government agency
> 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:26:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:25:26 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country dance traditions
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000201bf0e9e$35f40770$fb98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Hello, Bob (and others),

First off, I must say that I am not a researcher, despite what my questions
to you (about your hypothesis, sources, etc. ) may have led you to believe.
I simply enjoy asking questions as ideas occur to me and then exploring the
ideas through reading and  in discussions with other folks.

Now let's start, for no particular reason, with the question of whether one
can characterize a dance by its figures as to whether it is English,
Scottish, Early American, or American contra.

Here are two dances from the country dance repertoire.  Can you identify
their time period and their tradition, based solely on a reading of the
figures?

Dance #1.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half turn.
13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
place.
25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

Dance #2.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd
place)
9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
place)
17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
cast off to  second place (2s move up)
25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.

__________
Have you seen Stephanie Smith's posting on The Imagined Village, wherein she
asks about Sharp's tradition and modern ECD? If this thread is developed, it
could add a useful perspective to our discussion.

Till later,

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:26:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:26:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Quale <quale-AT-
cs.swarthmore.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9910041518170.10723-100000-AT-
allspice.cs.swarthmore.edu>
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On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
> My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the list
> address. 

when i hit "r" to reply, i am given a "use 'reply-to' address rather than
sender? y/n" prompt (by PINE 4.10); if i choose yes, my reply goes to the
list, not the sender.  i assume that the ECD-list assigns the 'reply-to'
address to the posts, but that not all mail readers can take advantage of
this or give you an option?  

also, it sounded like part of sharon's problem was that when she reads a
message and wants to reply, she's not sure which list it came from.  i
handle this with procmail; most mail readers (Eudora, Netscape, Outlook)
have good filtering which can direct all the ECD mail to one folder, all
the Morris mail to another.  this is normally (note, normally!) enough to
combat my confusion ...

of course, the separate ECD, strathspey, and Morris lists are really an
illusion, and we should just have one big list about bastardized french
renaissance dances and their descendents, right? :>

--will

Will's Hole in the Web		     http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~quale
Folk Dance Club's Page	    http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/folkdance

			"Faith manages." -- Delenn

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:06:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:05:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGQJY6K2OO99E61R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Folks --

(1) I set up the list, and I chose the "reply to list" option when I did so,
mostly for the reasons Charlene suggests: This is meant to be a discussion 
list, and the default response, I thought, should be a public one.  Despite
the occasional minor embarrassment, the convenience of the membership as a 
whole is better served by reply-to-list.

(2) How hard it is to reply to the sender rather than to the list depends on
what mail client software you use.  It happens that the mail client software
_I_ primarily use makes it hard to do this.  Some mail client software guesses 
wrong about the original sender, so I occasionally get mail sent to owner-ecd
that was supposed to go to the origial sender.

(3) I have no intention of changing the list structure to make the envelope
'From' address be the sender, not the list.

(4) Will, isn't that 'bastardized offspring of _Italian_ Renaissance dance'?

(5) Sharon, I read the MDDL in digest form, so if I want to reply to a person
I have to type in the address, and if I want to reply to the list I need to 
change the subject line from "MDDL DIGEST".  I live with it.

-- Alan (sick at home with a sore throat, and possibly crankier than usual)



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:51:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:23:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Larry Stout <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199910042023.PAA12876-AT-
goedel.iwu.edu>
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Patricia Ruggiero gives us two dance descriptions and asks us to identify 
whether they are English, Scottish, Early American, or contra.  OK, I'll take 
the bait.

Since both dances are triple minors we can rule out modern contra, where all 
dances seem to be improper duple minor and fairly balanced between the actives 
and inactives.

Distinguishing Early American from English and Scottish will be much more 
difficult, since Early American dances were English and Scottish.  The same 
sequences of figures do appear in different traditions-- Money in Both Pockets 
(Colonial American) and Dalkeith's Strathspey (RSCDS) have the same figures even 
though one is a jig and the other is a strathspey.

That being said, Dance 1 reads like an English dance from about the Apted book 
period (though the instruction "set to and turn corners" uses contra terminology 
rather than what I'd expect in an English dance).  I could picture it in a Jane 
Austen movie with high kneed setting, but otherwise elegant.

Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning 
away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed that 
you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the active 
couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both could 
be done in several different styles.  

So what were they?

Lawrence Neff Stout
Professor of Mathematics
Illinois Wesleyan University
http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout

"Fiddling is a viol habit."  Anon?
"Dancing is necessary in a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:26:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991005022956.10896.rocketmail-AT-
web2103.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:
> >actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> >replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?)....of
> >course others have made the same or similar mistakes. what say?]
> >what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?

Andy Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net> wrote:
> My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the
> list address. I find this extremely annoying because I don't
usually > intend to respond only to the individual sender and I
sometimes
> forget to change it to the list address....Most replies are
directed > to the general interest of everyone and the list should be
set up to > make general rather than individual replies.

I wonder if whether your reply goes to the individual or the list is
a function of the server. My replies always go to the list. It's the
same list as Andy's on, but his reply works differently. Huh....

Lyrl




=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:56:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:55:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bf0edd$12676330$9198ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Larry, thanks for your reply.  There's some reasoning behind your choices
that I had not considered, and the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

I'd like to wait a day or two for others to reply, not because this is a
quiz, but because I really find it instructive to see what other folks think
of as English, or Scottish, or Early American, or American contra dance.

Stay tuned --

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Larry Stout
Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 4:23 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions


Patricia Ruggiero gives us two dance descriptions and asks us to identify
whether they are English, Scottish, Early American, or contra.  OK, I'll
take
the bait.

Since both dances are triple minors we can rule out modern contra, where all
dances seem to be improper duple minor and fairly balanced between the
actives
and inactives.

Distinguishing Early American from English and Scottish will be much more
difficult, since Early American dances were English and Scottish.  The same
sequences of figures do appear in different traditions-- Money in Both
Pockets
(Colonial American) and Dalkeith's Strathspey (RSCDS) have the same figures
even
though one is a jig and the other is a strathspey.

That being said, Dance 1 reads like an English dance from about the Apted
book
period (though the instruction "set to and turn corners" uses contra
terminology
rather than what I'd expect in an English dance).  I could picture it in a
Jane
Austen movie with high kneed setting, but otherwise elegant.

Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning
away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed
that
you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the
active
couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both
could
be done in several different styles.

So what were they?

Lawrence Neff Stout
Professor of Mathematics
Illinois Wesleyan University
http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout

"Fiddling is a viol habit."  Anon?
"Dancing is necessary in a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:22:48 PST
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205503b41f1b0131ff-AT-
[206.72.193.190]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000001bf0edd$12676330$9198ffd0-AT-
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At 10:55 PM -0400 10/4/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
>step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

Well I don't know if Pat meant her message to go list-wide or not, 
but I guess I need to ask -

what exactly is wrong with a rant?

Geesh.

It's only stepping for pete's sake. Not a sacrilege.  And it's fun.

Mary Beth <-- doesn't make comments about people who want to do waltzy dances

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:40:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGQZIPOOWY99E6UL-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> writes:

  Now let's start, for no particular reason, with the question of whether one
  can characterize a dance by its figures as to whether it is English,
  Scottish, Early American, or American contra.

Do most of those distinctions even make any difference?  Note that Early
American has very little that's uniquely American in it.  (There are some
tunes that seem to originate over here.  You don't see cotillions in ECD,
ordinarily, but that's a vagary of the revival, not a historical fact.)


  Here are two dances from the country dance repertoire.  Can you identify
  their time period and their tradition, based solely on a reading of the
  figures?

  Dance #1.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

  1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
  9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half turn.
  13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
  17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
  place.
  25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
  29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

This is very close to Bentley's rendition of "A Trip to Virginia" - my
notes don't show the 13-16 lead and cast. This is identified as "Johnson,
1750".  Just from reading the figures, I would have placed it as prior to
1780, and I wouldn't have an opinion about it being Early American or not.
(By the narrow-meshed net used for Millar's "Country Dances of Colonial 
America", it would probably have been included as Early American because
it mentions a colony in the title.)  Incidentally, when I tried this dance
I found my dancers got confused because of starting the turning corners
improper - the directions made it ambiguous whether the corners you turn
are the corners from your position (which leaves men turning men, women 
turning women) or your person (which means your corners are the ones in 
the same line you're standing in).  I opted for "person", but this was 
still confusing.

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Dance #2.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

  1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
  5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd  
             place)
  9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
  13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
  place)
  17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
   cast off to  second place (2s move up)
  25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would guess this as after 1780.  (Clearly, 1/2 figure 8 is around from 
"Juice of Barley" forward, but finishing off with a rights-and-lefts is a 
very late-eighteenth-century thing to do.)  All that setting feels Scottish,
but that isn't outside the bounds of English dance.


If you gave us dances with "set and rigadoon" we'd figure we had Early
American, and we could probably diagnose Scottish with half-reels of four
or whatever the name of the figure where the actives are diagonally back 
to back with their partners and set to the people they're facing and then 
travel to face the other diagonals, and if you gave us "gypsy meltdown" we
could say "modern contra", but so long as we're working at this level of 
abstraction all the stuff is more or less the same.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 03:58:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:58:32 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910051058.GAA17887-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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I take a couple days off from the list and see what happens . . .

How about we end this thread here?  Before anyone disagrees with 
Sharon or Barbara.  :-)


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:09:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:08:34 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f9a427.039-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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mary beth (et al.);
  pat didn't mean anything by the rant comment. it's just that most
REAL people have never done Northwest, and ranting is WORK! great
stuff, but work!
  sharon "i love NW, myself" mckinley, and not an official
rant-'n'-raver for any government agency  ;-)

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 11:05 PM >>>
At 10:55 PM -0400 10/4/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
>step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

Well I don't know if Pat meant her message to go list-wide or not, 
but I guess I need to ask -

what exactly is wrong with a rant?

Geesh.

It's only stepping for pete's sake. Not a sacrilege.  And it's fun.

Mary Beth <-- doesn't make comments about people who want to do
waltzy dances

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:41:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:40:27 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RE: Country dance traditions
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199910050740_MC2-87AC-1692-AT-
compuserve.com>
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The rant step? Used to like it BUT when you are in your seventies, with bum
knees (no cartilege in one and little left in the other) the minute a dance
with a rant step is mentioned, you determine to sit it out-it is a killer
for those with my type of infermities! I find that I can still teach
scottish and can fake it well when I dance, but not a rant, it just doesn't
work and if I try it I am done for that evening at least.

Ben Stein
Burlington, Vt.
dancers-AT-
compuserve.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:55:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:55:56 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Reply to Eric viz Helene Cornelius Visit to Madison
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991005065139.0098c820-AT-
popmail.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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But the evening was anything but fishy, Eric (also tongue in check).

Helene's presence attracted a group three times our normal size for about
three hours.  She and the music was able to bring in folks from Irish,
Scottish, Contra....!

They heard about it on  state public radio, local public radio (not
affiliated with the state system), newspapers and flyers at (hold your
breath) CONTRA dances!, and the net posting.

Now, if we can hold a few of them for more than couriousity!

mm


Mike Mudrey
P.O. Box 22
New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022

mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net

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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
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SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 10/4/99 4:10:49 PM, winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes:

<< I have no intention of changing the list structure to make the envelope
'From' address be the sender, not the list. >>

Thanks, Alan, & for that pesky sore throat take a little hot milk with honey, 
butter & rum.

Judy Grunberg
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:39:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:38:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Reply to Eric viz Helene Cornelius Visit to Madison
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Mike Mudrey wrote:

> But the evening was anything but fishy, Eric (also tongue in check).
> 
> Helene's presence attracted a group three times our normal size for about
> three hours.  She and the music was able to bring in folks from Irish,
> Scottish, Contra....!

Great!  So were you dancing like dace, or dacing like dancers?  (;-^)

> Now, if we can hold a few of them for more than couriousity!

Definitely don't let them wiggle away...

Anyway, keep on fishing!  Sounds like you had a great catch!

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:13:29 PST
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:19:16 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
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Judy Grunberg writes:

>>Thanks, Alan, & for that pesky sore throat take a little hot milk with
honey,
butter & rum.

No, no!  For a sore throat, slam back a shot of bourbon, eat a wedge of
lemon with the peel still on it, and then eat a spoonful of honey.

Don't do this more than once an hour, however, even if you're only following
the regimen to show solidarity with a sick friend. . . .

Marian Phillips

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:22:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:23:14 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910060022.UAA28923-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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Alan Winston wrote:

> This is very close to Bentley's rendition of "A Trip to Virginia" 

Good spot Alan!  

> - my notes don't show the 13-16 lead and cast. 

It's there both Bentley (Fallibroome-3) and Johnson.

> This is identified as "Johnson, 1750".  Just from reading the
> figures, I would have placed it as prior to 1780, 

Bingo again!.  Bentley has the date wrong.  Trip to Virginia is in 
Volume 8 of Johnson's _200 Favourite Country Dances_, first 
published in 1758.  

> I wouldn't have an opinion about it being Early American or not.

Neither Trip to Virginia nor the figures are in Bob Keller's definitive 
_Dance Figures Index_ of American country dances.

> Incidentally, when I tried this dance I found my dancers got
> confused because of starting the turning corners improper - the
> directions made it ambiguous whether the corners you turn are the
> corners from your position (which leaves men turning men, women
> turning women) or your person (which means your corners are the
> ones in the same line you're standing in).  I opted for "person",
> but this was still confusing. 

I'm not sure what you mean about starting the corners improper.  The 
way I've always danced it is to start the corner turns from middle 
place proper.  (Cross & cast + 1/2 turn leaves you proper.) 

That sounds like a good analysis of Dance #2, too.  We'll find out 
from Pat whether you're right.  But obviously, you can still think 
clearly, even on your sick bed.  

Get better soon.
Rich

====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:41:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:41:55 -0400
From: judith <judid-AT-
att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: costume exhibit NYC
To: ECD2 <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <19991006154105.HZVU20426-AT-
[12.79.164.56]>
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There is a wonderful exhibit of reproductions of 18th century women's
costume at the Museum at the Fashion Institute of Technology. It is a
student exhibit and the costumes are made with great attention to
detail using. . . designer sheets.

The exhibit is called "Linens: Off the Bed and onto the Stage"

The museum is in NYC at the corner of 27th street and 7th avenue
Open to the public Tuesday-Friday 12-8 and Saturday 10-5
Admission is free
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:23:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:29:01 -0400
From: Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English or Contra in Calgary, Alberta, CAN?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991006182901.006d2708-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
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I recently met someone from Calgary, Alberta, Canada who is interested in
doing English country dancing or contra. Does anyone know of a group, dance
or people there (or even near there) who might be of some help?

Don Bell
Albany, NY
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:59:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: ArcadiaCB-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: costume exhibit NYC
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, penny.creative.outlets-AT-
pop.erols.com
Message-ID: <627f5020.252d2e3c-AT-
aol.com>
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thought you might appreciate this--after the gowns made with paper.
Charlene
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:01:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Halloween Dance with Rich Galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991006231013.19057.rocketmail-AT-
web2902.mail.yahoo.com>
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Well, since we were on the subject, I would just like to point out
that anyone who wishes can come and not dance with Rich Galloway on 
Sunday, October 31 at the Branford Community Center, Branford, CT,
Halloween English dance, where he will be too busy calling to do any
dancing himself (demonstration steps and a waltz will be permitted). 
Music will be by Marshall Barron, Grace Feldman, and Force of Nature
Margaret Ann Martin, with possible other guest musicians.

Costumes are encouraged.  Dancers are invited to come dressed as a
dance of your choice, and if the caller can guess the dance he will
call it.  Please choose costumes from the regular New Haven
repertoire, which may be found listed on my admittedly messy website
at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html (and then again
maybe not, depending on how good your browser is).  If that seems
like too much effort, come in any old costume and we can  all enjoy
seeing what dance Rich can make out of it.  Those not in costume will
be subject to being made fun of.

Dance is 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m., admission $8.00.  Directions to the
Branford Community Center are below.


Directions to the Branford Community Center:
Take I-95 to exit 54, Cedar Street exit (if coming from the north,
take I-91 to interchange with I-95.) Take Cedar Street towards
Branford Center (crossing over Route 1) until it ends at Main Street.
Turn left onto Main Street, but get immediately into the far-right
lane. Main Streets splits in front of the Branford Cinema, into Main
and South Main Streets. Stay right at the split, on South Main. The
second street, after the split, is Church Street. Make a right onto
Church Street and follow it almost to the end. The Branford Community
Center is the large building on the right. The dance will be on the
second floor. There is lots of parking.

=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:50:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 2nd Annual New Haven English Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991007000151.24590.rocketmail-AT-
web2905.mail.yahoo.com>
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I would also like to announce the 2nd Annual New Haven ECD Ball,     
                         the "Elm City Assembly" will take place
January 22, 2000, once again at St. Thomas’s Episcopal Church, in New
Haven, CT.
Information and registration forms may be found at some of your local
dances or also at my website
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html.  Anyone who has
trouble getting it from either of those sources may email me off-line
and I will email you a copy.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:02:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:01:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: BACDS Playford Ball in Oakland, 3/25/2000 - dance list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGTKVTB01K9FMLYT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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ECD'ers --

The BACDS Playford Ball will be held in Oakland, California, at the Greek
Orthodox Cathedral of the Ascension - a new and larger site - on March 25
of next year.  There will be a Preview/Rehearsal dance the night before, 
at the San Mateo Masonic Temple.

The website isn't up yet; when it is, it will be reachable at 
www.bacds.org/playford

I have put together a program for it.  (The theme is Alice in Wonderland,
but I've reached into Snark-land to divide the program into three Fits
and a Start; the Start is a grand march.)

For those interested, here is the dance list:

-----------------------------
Barbarini's Tambourine (2/4, D)
The Black Nag (6/8, Dm)
Corelli's Maggot (2/4, D)
Easter Morn  (4/4, Cm)
Fandango (6/8, D) *
Hambleton's Round O (3/2, Am)
Indian Princess (2/2, F)
An Irish Lamentation (3/4, G)
Joy After Sorrow (3/4, Am) *
Knives and Forks (3/2, G)
Lobster (La Russe) Quadrille  (4/4, G)
Midnight Ramble (4/4, D)
Mutual Promises (2/4, D) *
Never Love Thee More (6/8, G)
Rafe's Waltz   (3/4, Dm)
Shrewsbury Lasses (4/4 D)
Walpole Cottage (4/4, D)
The Young Widow (6/8, G)
------------------------------
* = "For those who know" - although the tradition at this ball is that
there are no walk-throughs, only talk-throughs; FTWK means no talk-through
in this case.

If you run a dance series and are likely to have people from your series attend
this ball and you want a packet of instructions (and, in some cases, notes) on
those dances, let me know (by replying to _me_, not to the list), and I'll 
send you one when the packets are available, which won't be for a few weeks
at least.

To anticipate one questions, "Mutual Promises" is a fearfully symmetrical 
triple minor to music by Mozart, written by John Hertz of Los Angeles in 
the late 1970s.  None of the figures are difficult, but it's unforgiving -
2s and 3s can't fall asleep - and there's a lot of it - 64 bars, I think.
I like this dance very much, and am taking this opportunity to inflict it
upon the general ECD community.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:05:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:05:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: JoAnne Rawls <ljrawls-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: BACDS Playford Ball in Oakland, 3/25/2000 - dance list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991007180545.77132.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alan,

I'm replying to the list, rather than privately, because I know there are 
other avid Mozarteans out there who are dying to know what music is used for 
Mutual Promises. Can you enlighten us?

JoAnne (inquiring minds want to know) Rawls
Newport News, VA

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:15:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:15:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007180844.24967B-100000-AT-
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Dear Marjorie and all interested,

Watch out!  You've 'inferred' from what i said what I didn't say or mean!
That is, that country dances were influenced by Italian dancing masters.
What I remarked on was the remarkable coincidences among some of the
figures. Whether they were simultaneously (or so) conceived, or whether
the English influenced the Italians or v.v. we don't know.

My primary goal as a scholar is to find out the truth.  But that doesn't
mean that I intend to invent it! My next goal is to distinguish truth from
fiction.  The problem with most dance history, as it circulates today, is
that the standards are not rigorous enough. In other words, if the
astronauts actually flew to the moon we have to have hard and precise
evidence of it; guessing won't do!

Julia





On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

> I appreciate Rich Galloway's successful effort at tact - and I do
> apologize for my lack of tact in "disagreeing" with Julia Sutton. What I
> really intended was to offer Albert Blank some information contradicting
> the notion that "no country dances had been performed at court earlier
> than in the realm of Charles II", and I got a bit carried away by some
> of my long-presumed notions about the origins of "country dances".
> 
> The sources quoted (below)in Rich's response I found in John Nichols,
> "The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth", volumes I
> and III, London, 1823.
> 
> Rich Galloway wrote: > "The following excerpt from a secondary source
> (sorry, I forgot to note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed
> early 17th century text:
> > 
> > "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
> > 
> > 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"
> 
> Can it be inferred that these "pleasant dances" danced by "tenants", as
> well as the occasion at Warwick Castle in 1572 where "it pleased her to
> have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
> the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
> which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
> Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry", were popular, common
> dances (I'm trying to avoid using the loaded word "country") which other
> sources tell us were enjoyed at court as a contrast to the "grave
> measures"?
> 
> I realize this is a complex subject and that I quoted sources which are
> not the best, but I do still wonder about the indigenous nature of these
> country dances, affected though they were by influences such as the
> Italian dancing masters.
> 
> Marjorie McLaughlin
> San Diego, CA
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:15:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:15:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007180844.24967B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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Dear Marjorie and all interested,

Watch out!  You've 'inferred' from what i said what I didn't say or mean!
That is, that country dances were influenced by Italian dancing masters.
What I remarked on was the remarkable coincidences among some of the
figures. Whether they were simultaneously (or so) conceived, or whether
the English influenced the Italians or v.v. we don't know.

My primary goal as a scholar is to find out the truth.  But that doesn't
mean that I intend to invent it! My next goal is to distinguish truth from
fiction.  The problem with most dance history, as it circulates today, is
that the standards are not rigorous enough. In other words, if the
astronauts actually flew to the moon we have to have hard and precise
evidence of it; guessing won't do!

Julia





On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

> I appreciate Rich Galloway's successful effort at tact - and I do
> apologize for my lack of tact in "disagreeing" with Julia Sutton. What I
> really intended was to offer Albert Blank some information contradicting
> the notion that "no country dances had been performed at court earlier
> than in the realm of Charles II", and I got a bit carried away by some
> of my long-presumed notions about the origins of "country dances".
> 
> The sources quoted (below)in Rich's response I found in John Nichols,
> "The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth", volumes I
> and III, London, 1823.
> 
> Rich Galloway wrote: > "The following excerpt from a secondary source
> (sorry, I forgot to note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed
> early 17th century text:
> > 
> > "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
> > 
> > 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"
> 
> Can it be inferred that these "pleasant dances" danced by "tenants", as
> well as the occasion at Warwick Castle in 1572 where "it pleased her to
> have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
> the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
> which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
> Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry", were popular, common
> dances (I'm trying to avoid using the loaded word "country") which other
> sources tell us were enjoyed at court as a contrast to the "grave
> measures"?
> 
> I realize this is a complex subject and that I quoted sources which are
> not the best, but I do still wonder about the indigenous nature of these
> country dances, affected though they were by influences such as the
> Italian dancing masters.
> 
> Marjorie McLaughlin
> San Diego, CA
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:20:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:32:04 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Advanced Dance For Experienced Dancers
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37FCD913.26B0-AT-
javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JGTKVTB01K9FMLYT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Dancers -

The third weekend in October marks our Gene Murrow dance extravaganza
with an ECD on Saturday night accompanied by Pleasures of the Town
followed by an 'advanced' ECD on Sunday afternoon.  Here are the
specifics:

Dance for all

Saturday, October 16th, 8 - 11 pm., Munson Library, South Amherst, MA
Prompting by Gene Murrow
Music by Pleasures of the Town (Joyce Crouch, piano, Doug Creighton,
flute and melodeon, Ted Ehrhard, fiddle)

Advanced Dance

Sunday, October 17th, 2 - 5:30 pm., Munson Library, South Amherst, MA
Prompting by Gene Murrow
Music by Ted Ehrhard, fiddle and Margaret Ann Martin, piano

Contact for travel directions: Mary Jones 413-549-8159 or email
mjones-AT-
javanet.com

See you there!

Mary Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:40:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007181604.24967C-100000-AT-
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Dear Mary,

The difficulty of judging evidence is manifest in your note.  The author
of "A Worlde of Wordes," 1598 (N.B.), John Florio, changes his definition
of 'chiarantana' in 1611, in the revision of his dictionary. The new
edition, called "Queene Anna's New World of Words," says:

Chiaranta'na, a kinde of Caroll or song full of leapings like a Scottish
gigge, some take it for the Almaine-leape.

Furthermore, his definition does not match Caroso's 'Chiaranzana,' which
is not a leaping dance, or the two other longways dances in Negri! Here we
have two primary sources disagreeing with a third primary source.  Which
to believe? Not certain yet.

Sorry! you see how difficult it can be to try for precision.

Julia






On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mary Railing wrote:

>   The dances done by the country people in Elizabeth's presence need not
> have been "country dances" as we know them.  They could have been the
> simple circle and line dances that coexisted with other forms of dance
> throughout the fifteenth century.
>   Where country dances are referred to in Elizabethan sources, we don't
> even know how much the term covered and whether the definition changed
> over time.  An English-Italian dictionary of 1602 defines the Italian verb
> "chiaranzare" as "to dance to ballads, as a country dance" implying that
> the definitive feature of country dances was the music.  Thomas Morley in
> his "Plaine and Easie Instruction in Practical Musick" mentions country
> dances in his list of types of music and refers to them as "our English
> country dances", so he must have seen something indiginous about them, but
> whether it was the music or the figures he doesn't say.
> 
> --Mary Railing 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:40:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007181604.24967C-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Mary,

The difficulty of judging evidence is manifest in your note.  The author
of "A Worlde of Wordes," 1598 (N.B.), John Florio, changes his definition
of 'chiarantana' in 1611, in the revision of his dictionary. The new
edition, called "Queene Anna's New World of Words," says:

Chiaranta'na, a kinde of Caroll or song full of leapings like a Scottish
gigge, some take it for the Almaine-leape.

Furthermore, his definition does not match Caroso's 'Chiaranzana,' which
is not a leaping dance, or the two other longways dances in Negri! Here we
have two primary sources disagreeing with a third primary source.  Which
to believe? Not certain yet.

Sorry! you see how difficult it can be to try for precision.

Julia






On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mary Railing wrote:

>   The dances done by the country people in Elizabeth's presence need not
> have been "country dances" as we know them.  They could have been the
> simple circle and line dances that coexisted with other forms of dance
> throughout the fifteenth century.
>   Where country dances are referred to in Elizabethan sources, we don't
> even know how much the term covered and whether the definition changed
> over time.  An English-Italian dictionary of 1602 defines the Italian verb
> "chiaranzare" as "to dance to ballads, as a country dance" implying that
> the definitive feature of country dances was the music.  Thomas Morley in
> his "Plaine and Easie Instruction in Practical Musick" mentions country
> dances in his list of types of music and refers to them as "our English
> country dances", so he must have seen something indiginous about them, but
> whether it was the music or the figures he doesn't say.
> 
> --Mary Railing 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:35:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: duplicate messages
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000101bf112d$409b18d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally receive
two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two messages on
Eliz. I etc.?

I see that Julia's messages show a CC going to the same address.  Is this
the reason? Is it always the reason?

Many thanks for an explanation.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:50:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:49:58 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205508b422fd6d47da-AT-
[206.72.193.168]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)"
References: <000101bf112d$409b18d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>


--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally receive
>two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two messages on
>Eliz. I etc.?

For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying 
to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address 
from the To: line and the other from the reply to: line.

Look at the header that came with your message:

Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: duplicate messages
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Warnings-to: <>
Reply-to: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

Mary Beth

--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)
Content-type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

<excerpt>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I
occasionally receive

two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two
messages on

Eliz. I etc.?

</excerpt>

For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying
to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address
from the To: line and the other from the reply to: line.


Look at the header that came with your message:


Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400

From: Patricia Ruggiero <<ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>

Subject: duplicate messages

Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

<color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>To: English Dance
<<ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

</color>Warnings-to: <<>

<color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>Reply-to:
ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU


</color>Mary Beth  

--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:13:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:12:47 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701bf1132$9d88d2d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Thanks, Mary Beth.  I think I understand....

Pat
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Beth Goodman
    Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:50 PM
    To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
    Subject: Re: duplicate messages


    At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

        Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally
receive
        two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two
messages on
        Eliz. I etc.?


    For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying to
reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address from the
To: line and the other from the reply to: line.

    Look at the header that came with your message:

    Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET
    Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
    From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
    Subject: duplicate messages
    Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
    To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
    Warnings-to: <>
    Reply-to: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

    Mary Beth

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3>Thanks, Mary Beth.&nbsp; I think I understand....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3>Pat</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
    owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU 
    [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Mary Beth 
    Goodman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
    ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: duplicate 
    messages<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero 
    wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I 
        occasionally receive<BR>two copies of the same message, most recently 
        Julia Sutton's two messages on<BR>Eliz. I etc.?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For me 
    it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying to reply 
    quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address from the To: line 
    and the other from the reply to: line.<BR><BR>Look at the header that came 
    with your message:<BR><BR>Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET<BR>Date: Thu, 07 
    Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400<BR>From: Patricia Ruggiero 
    &lt;ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: duplicate messages<BR>Sender: 
    owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><?color><?param FFFF,0000,0000>To: 
    English Dance &lt;ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU&gt;<BR><?/color>Warnings-to: 
    &lt;&gt;<BR><?color><?param FFFF,0000,0000>Reply-to: 
    ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><BR><?/color>Mary Beth 
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 13:25:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:25:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910082025.QAA22700-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Volume 1: Favorites of the Boston Centre (available now)
Volume 2: More Favorites of the Boston Centre (available mid-late November)

Volume 3: working title: Simple Pleasures (fun entry-level dances)

Volume 4: working title: Modern Favorites (recent dances by known composers)

You are invited to help us fill your needs and desires! We are working
on the list of selections for v3 and v4. If you have any suggestions, please
send them to me.  (We can't guarantee that your suggestions will be selected
but it can't hurt to try.)  

Look for them in 2000! 

Recording website: http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/recording/


For the CDS Boston Centre Recording Committee,
Dan Pearl

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:17:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 17:17:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net, mgoodman-AT-
albany.net, jsutton-AT-
world.std.com
Message-ID: <0.3b112d70.252fb969-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

 >Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I
 >occasionally receive two copies of the same message, most
 >recently Julia Sutton's two messages on Eliz. I etc.? 
 >
 >I see that Julia's messages show a CC going to the same address.
 >Is this the reason? Is it always the reason?

And Mary Beth wrote:

 >For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm
 >trying to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the
 >one address from the To: line and the other from the reply to:
 >line.

FWIW, each of Julia's messages are appearing twice on the digest.
Julia, could you please check to see that the list address appears
only once in the "addressee" section of you mail window when you
post?

Julia, Mary Beth, and Patricia will each get two copies of this
message because I always cc my posts to the people I'm responding
to. Others should get it only once.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 00:53:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 00:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGWTPKBF3M9KMIFZ-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Lawrence Neff Stout wrote (days and days ago, but I just figured out what 
was bugging me about it, and Pat hasn't opened the box yet)

  Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning
  away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed that
  you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the active
  couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

It'd be a great fit to Flowers of Edinburgh ("or any good rant tune", as the
Community Dances Manual sometimes says.)  However, I don't believe it, unless
the dance is a recent composition.  If I'd quoted the dance here, you could see
that it ends with four changes of rights and lefts, which (as far as i can
tell) _never_ shows up in traditional  dances, which is where rants show up.

  I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both
  could be done in several different styles.

Structurally, "Early American" is late-eighteenth century ECD - we just do it 
with a little more attention to the steps than when we do ECD.  (An Early
American dance might have eight counts of "foot it" reconstructed as "set and
rigadoon" while an ECD would have "set right and left twice.")  Scottish is
late eighteenth century ECD with more attention to footwork, which may or may
not be authentic or uniquely Scottish, and may or may closely resemble what 
the English were doing with it at the time.  So in some senses it's meaningless
to look at figures and say "it's Early American" or "it's Scottish."  In other
senses, of course, if the dance is in Griffith's 1788 book, it's unquestionably
Early American, and if it's one of the RSCDS numbered collections, it's a
Scottish dance - but the same figures could fit well with both.

I'm not arguing with you, specifically; just like me in another post, you're
just playing Patricia's game.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:18:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991012143354.19610.rocketmail-AT-
web2906.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi Dan,
   Will volume 4 include recent dances with older tunes, or just
recent dances with recently composed tunes?  

   Some that come to mind immediately are Colin Hume's "Elizabeth",
"Winter Memories" and  "Unrequited Love", Gary Roodman's "New
Beginnings" and "Sarah".  Fried's "Wood Duck".  Also, two years ago
at Pinewoods English Week, Philippe (1 l, 2 p's) taught a beautiful
dance that he had written, "Patrick's Waltz", to an absolutely
gorgeous tune, that I believe he said had been written by a friend. 
I don't remember if the tune had the same name or not, only that it
made me think of old-fashioned carousels with brightly painted horses
and gilded trappings, and ice cream cones and romance, and that I
wanted to hear it again and again.  Given the limited distribution of
that dance within the U.S., I suspect that most people here haven't
heard the tune, so it might not get named a lot, but I sure would
love to be able to listen to it again! (Not to mention dance to it
again.)

Barbara Ruth


--- Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com> wrote:
 
> Volume 3: working title: Simple Pleasures (fun entry-level dances)
> 
> Volume 4: working title: Modern Favorites (recent dances by known
> composers)
> 
> You are invited to help us fill your needs and desires! We are
> working
> on the list of selections for v3 and v4. If you have any
> suggestions, please
> send them to me.  (We can't guarantee that your suggestions will be
> selected
> but it can't hurt to try.)  
> 
> Look for them in 2000! 
> 
> Recording website: http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/recording/
> 
> 
> For the CDS Boston Centre Recording Committee,
> Dan Pearl
> 
> 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:34:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:33:56 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b428f73dfc1b-AT-
[140.186.55.115]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Wood Duck is already recorded danceably on their first CD.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:40:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991012145521.9136.rocketmail-AT-
web2903.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ah.  I forget what is actually on that recording, only that I love
it.
B.

--- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> Wood Duck is already recorded danceably on their first CD.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:02:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:01:49 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country dance traditions (long)
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000001bf14e4$3cff3340$f398ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 Dance #1.  Trip to Virginia. Jig. Longways triple minor

  1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
  9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half
turn.
  13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
  17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
  place.
  25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
  29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

My source is Fallibroome, Bk.3, which says the dance is from Johnson, 1750.
I'll quote Rich Galloway as to the corrected source: "Bentley has the date
wrong.  Trip to Virginia is in Volume 8 of Johnson's _200 Favourite Country
Dances_, first published in 1758."

Thanks to Rich for answering Alan's post.

I had imagined that some folks might think this a Scottish dance because of
the figures  "Set and cross; repeat to places" and "Set to and turn
corners."  These seem rarely, if ever, found in dances we now characterize
as "English," yet they are common enough in dances we now characterize as
"Scottish."

(An aside: why the heck is that half-turn in there?  Why not cross for 2
bars, cast for 2 bars, and 1/2  fig. 8 down for 4 bars?  I'd love to see the
original instructions for this dance, but I'm assuming that Bentley didn't
make up that half-turn.)

Dance #2.  Lamb Skinnet. Jig.  Longways triple minor

1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd
place)
9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
place)
17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
cast off to  second place (2s move up)
25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.

RSCDS Bk. 14 attributes this to Thompson, 1751.

This time I thought folks might just take this for an ordinary English
dance, as I did when I first read the figures.  Larry's comment, that it
seemed Scottish because dancers turned away from the people to whom they had
just set, gave me pause, as did Alan's that "all that setting feels
Scottish."  They both have a point; these are features that don't seem to
occur in English as we now do it.  The tune is a light-hearted jig, somewhat
in the nature of Gigue for Genny (in Barnes).  I tried doing the dance
English style and would say, as Alan further observed, the dance "isn't
outside the bounds of English dance."

What primarily interests me here is how we came to associate certain figures
or sequences of figures with either ECD or SCD. Consider these examples:

1) In a Scottish class the teacher announces an 18th c. dance from one of
the official RSCDS books.  The music is a fine Scottish tune; the dance
directions are ordinary in every way.  We start to dance, only to discover
that some figure feels awkward, or some transition from one figure to
another isn't smooth, or the "story line" seems odd.  Dancers will be heard
muttering, "This is weird.  Must be an English dance."

2) A couple of years ago I taught "Philandering" (Fallibroome, Bk. 6,
attributed to W. Blackman, 1826) to our English group.  One of the Scottish
dancers in the group was quite surprised by the last figure: "I didn't know
English had double triangles!"

I start with the assumption that SCD was not a separate tradition in the
18th c.  The books of dance instructions from that period may reveal
changing tastes over the century, but I assume that most of the dances in
any given book were danced with equal delight in Edinburgh and in London.  I
further assume that we have to look to events in the 19th and 20th centuries
to understand the development of the differing styles and repertoire of ECD
and SCD.  In the 19th c., after country dances left the ballroom, the
repertoire of dances, tunes, and specific figures was likely the result of
local and regional tastes.  In the 20th c., Cecil Sharp and Jean Milligan
created different revivalist traditions, each of which has continued to
evolve in its own way.

To return to the two examples:  In the first case, the likely reason the
dance feels "weird" is because RSCDS dancers are now limited to certain
steps, and walking is not one of them.  Figure sequences that flow easily
when walked (or done to some other steps, if such were available) may not
work when execution is confined to skip-change, pas de basque, and slipping.
So the figure, or the sequence, is labeled "English," and an otherwise very
nice 18th c. country dance is lost to modern SCD.

In the second example, the opinion is expressed that double triangles is an
SCD figure.  True, it was a Scottish dancer who said this; but I suspect if
I wrote an English dance with this figure and presented it to a group of
experienced English dancers, half the dancers wouldn't recognize it at all
and the other half would tease me for introducing a Scottish figure into an
English dance.

Whether it's "double triangles," or "set to and turn corners," or "cross and
set, repeat to places" (or "set and cross, repeat"), or "all that setting,"
or "turning away from the person you just set to," there are figures and
sequences that we now think of as the provenance of either SCD or ECD that
were part of a common vocabulary in the 18th century.

As for Early American and American contra figures, my interest is the same:
not to pigeonhole a figure as to a particular country dance style, but to
explore the evolution of  figures across the centuries by looking at who was
dancing the dances, when, how, and under what circumstances.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:52:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NOMAD Update
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Peggy Vermilya <mtv-AT-
uconect.net>
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web2906.mail.yahoo.com>
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This is to let everyone know that the NOMAD schedule (aka "event
grids") has been posted on the NOMAD site at:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8797/

This year there are *10 hours* of English dancing spread over
Saturday and Sunday, including a large number of experienced
workshops, and that's not counting the guerrilla English that Sharon
Green will be sneaking into any open unused room she can find. (It
won't easy Sharon, the grid is PACKED).  Having served for the first
time on the Programing Committee I now know how fiendishly difficult
it is to program 19 hours of music and dance into 9 simultaneous
venues, while having to take into account things like who can be
where by what time, and who has to be gone by when, which musicians
are playing in how many different bands for how many different
workshops and have to be able to get themselves and their instruments
from one end of the school to the other (not to mention a few minutes
to gulp down lunch), what spaces we can get pianos into and which
ones can't be miked because there are SAT exams going on in the rooms
above, and of course, which ex-spouses or former band-mates can't be
put together on the same stage.  All I can say is, I am in awe of the
rest of the Program Committee for having succeeded in pulling this
all off for the past 11 years, not to mention all of you involved in
NEFFA, Dance Flurry, Heritage Festival etc., and still somewhat
baffled that the system actually work, and I DON"T WANNA HEAR ANY
COMPLAINTS about the fact that your favorite caller is on Sunday and
you're only going to be there Saturday or that we've programed the
open waltz session opposite an English session because the whole
thing is just impossible and somehow it gets done anyway.

The list of English callers this year includes: Robin Hayden, Andreas
Hayden, Fried Herman, Martha Davies, Graham Christian, Margary
Potter, Peggy Vermilya and Beverly Francis.  Gary Roodman will be
calling a session of his own compositions, and those of you who were
at his session at True Brit this past weekend know how much fun that
is. Those of you who missed it, HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!
  I want to especially thank Peggy Vermilya for being willing to step
in and do the only session marked for beginners this year, at my
request.  The glory and greatest exposure tends to go to those
calling advanced sessions, but the truth is calling for experienced
dancers is easy - I know because the one time I called an English
dance was at Pinewoods English Week a year ago, and you were all
terrific.  Knew right where to go no matter how badly I mangled the
instructions.  Calling for beginners who don't know what they're
doing is by far the more difficult job, and also the most important,
because we depend on getting a continued stream of newcomers if this
dancing is going to survive, and sessions like this are for many
people, their first impression of ECD.  They're only going to come
back if it's fun, and clear.  I asked Peggy to do the NOMAD session
after being impressed with the clarity of her teaching and direc