Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:56:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:55:59 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi, Folk:

Sorry to bother with a small request:

Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
Players, Lanark]

Thanks, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 06:03:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:59:28 +0100
From: Barry McNamara <barry-AT-
folkdance.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001601bf0c0c$df9ccf80$fda3883e-AT-
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References: <37F4A14E.F8ADAF9-AT-
accesscable.net>

Hi John,
In response to your  request posted on the ECD list,for Nic Broadbridges
E-mail address,  please see as follows.
 SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
hope this is of assistance.

Regards
       Barry McNamara
                                    Salisbury, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:55 PM
Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge


> Hi, Folk:
>
> Sorry to bother with a small request:
>
> Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
> Players, Lanark]
>
> Thanks, John
> Bedford, Nova Scotia
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:41:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 07:46:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991001144608.24701.rocketmail-AT-
web2902.mail.yahoo.com>
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I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.

Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT

--- victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:

> But if your friend is interested in scholarly research about dance,
> and not
> in actually dancing, they'd be better off joining the ECD list, and
> talking
> to people like Julia Sutton and Rich Galloway. 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 08:19:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:17:33 -0400
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Sad News
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199910011517.LAA127568-AT-
pimout7-int.prodigy.net>
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Word recently reached us here in Kentucky of the death of Gib Gilbert of
Denver. Gib was a fine caller of traditional western squares, a member of
Calico and Boots, a leader within the LLoyd Shaw Foundation, and a regular
participant, caller, and leader in Berea's Christmas Country Dance School.
He was also a fine person; exuberant, kindly, caring and jolly, with a
great commitment to community dance and dance heritage. He is survived by
two sons, the Reverend Kent Gilbert of Berea, and Craig Gilbert of Denver.
He will be greatly missed by many.

Perhaps some of the Colorado readers can add more to this. I last saw Gib
on the occasion of his son Kent's wedding to Jan Pearce last April, and am
glad to have such a happy last memory...his loss reminds me to cherish my
friends and our time together, and to cherish the great sense of community
and caring which I find within the dance world.

Susan Booker
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:42:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991001130239.12924C-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
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  When I used the term "circle dances" in my posts I was not referring to
the circle dances in Playford, which are dances for couples using the same
sort of figures as the longways ECD dances. I was trying to avoid using a
word like for a type of circle dance, like "bransle" as if it were generic
enough to include more times and places than it does.
  For centuries, if not millenia, dance in Europe appears to have meant a
group of people taking hands and travelling in a line or circle, while 
singing a song. From the fourteenth century onwards dances for couples in
a line appear, as simple processionals, but the earlier type of dance
remains.  In the fifteenth century some dances become complex enough to be
written down.  A few begin to resemble ECD figures, but a verse/chorus
structure is lacking.  Circle/line dances remain.  In the sixteenth
century there is an explosion of dance types, and dance starts take on the
look we expect today. Circle/line dances with a simple sequence of steps
repeated indefinately are still done by all classes into the sixteenth
century.
  It's hard for us to appreciate how radical a break with the past it was
to have a dance for a fixed number of people doing a fixed set of figures
for a fixed set of verses with different figures for each verse.  It's
like discovering that all you thought was normal and natural about musical
scales was undreamed-of in the middle ages.  This systemisation and
"refinement" of dance was a product of rennaissance courts that gradually
trickled downward in society.  The "circle dances" in Playford are
products of this stylistic evolution.  They're a quite different animal
from "circle dances" of the bransle variety.

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 12:27:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 15:27:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <7aa99d8f.2526651e-AT-
aol.com>
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> There's a lot of dance and music in Seattle

And splendid music and dance it is, and a splendid time one always has there, 
too! 

Nilos Nevertheless, who does not enjoy herself on behalf of any local, 
regional or federal government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:32:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 13:37:33 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf0c4c$c9d524a0$18eaadce-AT-
default>
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Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.

I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
other way round.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:55:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:55:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991001202403.25171A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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To all involved in the debate on dance history, specifically English
country dance.

The problems that most of you bring up are unfortunately common, the
questions in most cases without answers.  But I can say, as one who has
spent a lifetime in the scholarly pursuit of this vexing subject (while
also dancing--one skill does not preclude the other!) that
much of what you posit as fact is in fact (!) fancy.  Without hard
evidence (that is, WRITTEN OR PAINTED AT THE TIME WE ARE DISCUSSING, OR
EARLIER), specific enough to hang one's hat on, we do not know!!!  The statement
that dance became more complex and underwent a rapid and unusual
development in the Renaissance (what centuries do you mean?) is very
questionable.  It is SIMPLY  that from this period we have hard
evidence, that's all--in other words, there was enough leisure to allow
for people to write about dance! There were people who specialized in
dance. Those who did were employed by the upper classes, and were
not about to tell us what the folk did (except for Arbeau, with
regard to villages and towns, perhaps). Furthermore, we have no dance
manuals prior to the 15th century!  Without evidence, what do we know?  

We are still at the beginning of searching out all this evidence.  More
discoveries about the 15th and 16th centuries are coming to light each
year. The trouble is that most of what is available in print is badly out
of date and full of wishful thinking.  Furthermore, people like Cecil
Sharp invented a great deal in order to be able to do the dances they
found written down, but unexplained, in Playford and other sources; they
invented in their own image, however, or in what they fantasized was 'folk
dance.' Sharp himself knew exactly what he had done, but when he
discovered what siding really was (in the 18th century, by the way, not
earlier) and tried to change his own invention, noone in his group
would allow it! As for Melusine Wood, her ignorance is overwhelming; she
was not trained as a scholar, and she certainly knew little of what we now
know. Her ignorance about music was, by the way, dangerous, for she
fostered notions that persist until this day (e.g., that we know what
medieval dance was).

Judging materials of the past carefully, omitting all speculation, and
looking always for trustworthy sources, is hard work.  For those of you
who are seriously interested in this field, I welcome you--we need good
people who care.

With regard to the mention of Thomas Morley's recognition of indigenous
characteristics of English dance, I'm sorry to say he knew nothing of
dance history! In the 16th and 17th c. our typical country dances were
"known" everywhere to be of English origin.  That doesn't make it true!
Sorry.

Thanks to everyone for saying such nice things about me!
Julia Sutton




On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Heyer wrote:

> Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.
> 
> I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
> into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
> product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
> If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
> trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
> Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
> tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
> rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
> Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
> other way round.
> 
> Marian
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 17:55:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:55:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991001202403.25171A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

To all involved in the debate on dance history, specifically English
country dance.

The problems that most of you bring up are unfortunately common, the
questions in most cases without answers.  But I can say, as one who has
spent a lifetime in the scholarly pursuit of this vexing subject (while
also dancing--one skill does not preclude the other!) that
much of what you posit as fact is in fact (!) fancy.  Without hard
evidence (that is, WRITTEN OR PAINTED AT THE TIME WE ARE DISCUSSING, OR
EARLIER), specific enough to hang one's hat on, we do not know!!!  The statement
that dance became more complex and underwent a rapid and unusual
development in the Renaissance (what centuries do you mean?) is very
questionable.  It is SIMPLY  that from this period we have hard
evidence, that's all--in other words, there was enough leisure to allow
for people to write about dance! There were people who specialized in
dance. Those who did were employed by the upper classes, and were
not about to tell us what the folk did (except for Arbeau, with
regard to villages and towns, perhaps). Furthermore, we have no dance
manuals prior to the 15th century!  Without evidence, what do we know?  

We are still at the beginning of searching out all this evidence.  More
discoveries about the 15th and 16th centuries are coming to light each
year. The trouble is that most of what is available in print is badly out
of date and full of wishful thinking.  Furthermore, people like Cecil
Sharp invented a great deal in order to be able to do the dances they
found written down, but unexplained, in Playford and other sources; they
invented in their own image, however, or in what they fantasized was 'folk
dance.' Sharp himself knew exactly what he had done, but when he
discovered what siding really was (in the 18th century, by the way, not
earlier) and tried to change his own invention, noone in his group
would allow it! As for Melusine Wood, her ignorance is overwhelming; she
was not trained as a scholar, and she certainly knew little of what we now
know. Her ignorance about music was, by the way, dangerous, for she
fostered notions that persist until this day (e.g., that we know what
medieval dance was).

Judging materials of the past carefully, omitting all speculation, and
looking always for trustworthy sources, is hard work.  For those of you
who are seriously interested in this field, I welcome you--we need good
people who care.

With regard to the mention of Thomas Morley's recognition of indigenous
characteristics of English dance, I'm sorry to say he knew nothing of
dance history! In the 16th and 17th c. our typical country dances were
"known" everywhere to be of English origin.  That doesn't make it true!
Sorry.

Thanks to everyone for saying such nice things about me!
Julia Sutton




On Fri, 1 Oct 1999, Heyer wrote:

> Thanks, Mary, that's very clear.
> 
> I must admit, however, that I'm having a hard time fitting the Sussex angle
> into the idea that the "systemisation and 'refinement' of dance was a
> product of rennaissance courts that gradually trickled downward in society."
> If this form of dance was being invented at the courts and gradually
> trickling down, how come Elizabeth didn't know about it until she saw it in
> Sussex?  From the quotes posted to this list, it sounds as if the Cowdrey
> tenantry knew how to do it before she'd ever seen it.  How did the Sussex
> rubes get ahold of it first?  If it was being invented at court, you'd think
> Elizabeth and her retinue would have carried it to Sussex, rather than the
> other way round.
> 
> Marian
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:53:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 11:53:00 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37f6548c.2c8f.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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And according to Rich himself, you can thank Lyrl and I for introducing him to
ECD back in the early '70's.

Andy in Portland, OR

>
>I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
>Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
>with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
>considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
>sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 12:28:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 21:27:01 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #594
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <9n3LATAFyl93EwYN-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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References: <37EDD800.2CF68B4F-AT-
earthlink.net>

... About dance descriptions (and details) on the web.

In message <37EDD800.2CF68B4F-AT-
earthlink.net>, Laurie Andres
<lcandres-AT-
earthlink.net> writes
>Ack! Oh no, not more standardization! The death of local tradition and vibrancy.
>
>Regards,
>Laurie Andres

I wouldn't have thought it would be qualitatively different to having
dances written down on paper... The Cotswold Morris 'Black Book' is
taken as a reference source but doesn't stop diversity. (Far from it :-)

If it's the matter of writing the dances down in a standard fashion,
think of it more in terms of agreeing how to specify who the author is,
what good tunes are, what the copyright information is etc - not that a
strict vocabulary has to be used when describing the dance itself! 
-- 
Regards,
  Martin Kiff
  mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:12:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 15:12:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991002142616.193A-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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  Elizabeth did *not* discover country dance in Sussex and bring to the
court.  That statement was part of the original "I was told that..." post
on this subject that I have been disagreeing with.  There are a number of
references that say Elizabeth enjoyed watching country dances.  There are
references to country dances in Elizabethan plays and literature.  There
is genuine uncertainty as to how much resemblence these country dances
bear to the country dances puplished fifty years later by Playford. The
reference quoted in an earlier post to "the old and new country dances" is
one that intrigues scholars. Dance in England and on the Continent was
undergoing a great deal of change during the last quarter of the sixteenth
century and the first quarter of the seventeenth.  Were the "new country
dances" older dances with new, more fashionable figures grafted on to
them?  Morris dance in this period was undergoing a transition from an
improvisational dance to a dance by sets of people with figures that seem
to borrow somewhat from sword dances done in court.  [Morris is another
subject about which too little is known and far too much is speculated.]
  My pet [bias alert!] theory is that is that english country dance is
what resulted when gentlemen and ladies started doing the Italian-based
court dances without the fussy Italian steps when they were away from
London.  This assumes that the English disliked the Italian steps, an
assumption I cannot prove.  ("Care not to dance loftily..")  It assumes
that country dances used simpler steps (until the french got hold of them)
another unprovable notion.  I would like to think that fancier figures
with simple steps proved a combination very appealling to a wide range of
people, and that this was what was "English" and "country" about these
dances, not a supposed origin among the peasantry. 

--Mary Railing  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:40:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 00:46:01 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: vampires
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf0d73$566dcda0$92eeadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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I was thinking about vampire stories the other day, and I realized that I
get irritated at the way the humans behave in vampire novels and movies.  I
mean, if you were faced with someone who was reliably claiming to be 500
years old, wouldn't you be able to think of at least one or two questions
you wanted to ask him before he bit you in the neck?  Questions that come
immediately to mind:

a)  what kind of stepping (if any) did they do in country dancing in the
1650s?
b)  who invented ECD?
c)  what kind of dances did the peasants do in the Renaissance?

And so on.  I'm sure everyone could think of a million questions,
dance-related or not, but does anyone ever do that in the stories?  No, the
authors always postulate people with no historical curiosity or knowledge
whatsoever.

Of course, I can see the literary problem with this:  postulate Julia Sutton
faced with someone born in 1499, and the genre of your novel immediately
changes from gothic to comedy -- some poor vampire withered by a shaft from
the rising sun just as he's flapping his arms screaming "I can't remember!
I can't remember!  MAYBE there was some French influence, but who was paying
attention?"

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 07:37:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 10:36:47 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Email to Gene Murrow
To: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT-
compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <199910031037_MC2-8772-BC04-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Dear friends and colleagues,

If any personal or critical mail sent to me was recently rejected, please
re-send it.  Otherwise, please ignore/delete this message.  My email
address has NOT changed.

Please note that my address:  gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com  [equivalently
71332.2116-AT-
compuserve.com]  IS STILL VALID.  
Compuserve is correcting the problems with the account that resulted from a
recently installed update..

My (and, presumably, Compuserve's) apologies for any inconvenience this may
have caused you.

Best wishes,

Gene Murrow
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:48:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:55:07 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991003095507.00865760-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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At 07:46 AM 10/1/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I protest in defense of Rich Galloway.  I can't speak for Julia
>Sutton, never having met the lady, but I've shared many a dance floor
>with Rich and he is an excellent dancer, attentive to directions,
>considerate of partners and encouraging to newcomers.  Not at all the
>sort of person one should seek out if interested in not dancing.
>
>Barbara Ruth
>New Haven, CT

Boy did you ever misread what I wrote!!  This was a complement to Rich, not
a slam!  But in case others,  and especially Rich, misread it also-- here's
an attempt at clarification.

I've no idea where you got the notion that being knowledgable about dance
history makes someone a poor dancer, but you seemed to have jumped tot hat
conclusion.  What I said about Rich is that I regard him as one of the
people on the list worth consulting about dance history.  If a newcomer to
Seattle  wants to learn to dance well, they should come dancing, where
there are many fine dancers to learn from (but not Rich-- he is a fine
dancer somewhere else).  But the person I was writing to DIDN"T sound
interested in learning to dance. They just wanted to know ABOUT dance
history in relation to geneology. Their questions would not be answered by
coming dancing where there are many fine dancers, but not many people with
the kind of expertese found in some people on this list.   They need to
talk to a researcher, and I gave Rich and Julia as two examples among many
on the list with this additional expertese.  Its YOUR assumption, not mine,
that someone with this kind of knowlege must also be a bad dancer.  I've
danced with Rich at Pinewoods, and took a class in dance reconstruction
with him, and think highly of him as dancer, historian, and human being.   

Victoria Bestock 

  

I >
>--- victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net> wrote:
>
>> But if your friend is interested in scholarly research about dance,
>> and not
>> in actually dancing, they'd be better off joining the ECD list, and
>> talking
>> to people like Julia Sutton and Rich Galloway. 
>
>
>=====
>Barbara Ruth
>New Haven, CT
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:19:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:58:08 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37F79930.A64A2117-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <37F4A14E.F8ADAF9-AT-
accesscable.net> <001601bf0c0c$df9ccf80$fda3883e-AT-
freeserve.co.uk>

Thank you for your help. Regards, John

Barry McNamara wrote:

> Hi John,
> In response to your  request posted on the ECD list,for Nic Broadbridges
> E-mail address,  please see as follows.
>  SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
> hope this is of assistance.
>
> Regards
>        Barry McNamara
>                                     Salisbury, UK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
> To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 12:55 PM
> Subject: Searching for Nicolas Broadbridge
>
> > Hi, Folk:
> >
> > Sorry to bother with a small request:
> >
> > Has anyone Nicolas Broadbridge's E-mail address, please? [Assembley
> > Players, Lanark]
> >
> > Thanks, John
> > Bedford, Nova Scotia
> >
> >



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:27:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 15:26:15 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Imagined Village
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <37F7D807.21125670-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello all,

At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined Village:
Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if anyone
else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between Sharp
and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the early
20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of that
early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the aesthetic
of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus what
we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
(certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for me to
digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was had
by all!

Stephanie Smith
Bethesda, MD
steph-AT-
boo.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:09:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:09:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910031705250.11813-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
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On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:29:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 16:41:03 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37F7871E.5BA8-AT-
javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <3.0.6.32.19991003095507.00865760-AT-
oz.net>

About Barbara Ruth's frisky reply

paul/victoria bestock wrote:
 
> Boy did you ever misread what I wrote!!  This was a complement to Rich, not
> a slam!  But in case others,  and especially Rich, misread it also-- here's
> an attempt at clarification.

Vicky, 

I think Barbara's riposte was purely tongue-in-cheek.  We are all in
agreement with you!
  
Mary Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 17:13:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 20:14:29 -0400
From: "M.A.J. McKenna" <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: MDDL, was Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991003201429.007aecc0-AT-
mindspring.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 05:09 PM 10/3/99 -0400, susie lorand wrote:
>
>The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
>Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
>sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

that would be:

http://web.syr.edu/~hytelnet/mddl/

(was that a foot-together jump?)

maryn mck.
atlanta
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 19:58:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 22:57:30 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: MDDL, was Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F841CA.9C8BC6A7-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3.0.5.32.19991003201429.007aecc0-AT-
mindspring.com>

Thank you both for the reference, although my current research interest
is in the aesthetics of ECD rather than morris.  I'm sure the book
caused quite a stir in the ritual community.  My familiarity with
Georgina Boyes is more as a ballad and folksong scholar; it seems to me
that her mention of Sharp's work with the Playford dances was cursory at
best.

Stephanie

M.A.J. McKenna wrote:
> 
> At 05:09 PM 10/3/99 -0400, susie lorand wrote:
> >
> >The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
> >Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.  (I'm
> >sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)
> 
> that would be:
> 
> http://web.syr.edu/~hytelnet/mddl/
> 
> (was that a foot-together jump?)
> 
> maryn mck.
> atlanta
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 23:18:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 02:17:23 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Pinewoods Pictures
To: Recipient List Suppressed: ;
Message-ID: <v04205501b41df5e64f18-AT-
[206.72.193.121]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
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I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:26:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:24:22 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85652.094-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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re: rich's value to the dance community:
  i can attest to the fact that, if nothing else, rich is cute. 
  sharon "thanks for the dance at the ball, rich" mckinley, and darn
glad that he's part of the balto-dc dance community, but not for any
government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:27:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:26:39 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f856cf.015-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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hey, susie;
  i never got to say goodbye. but i guess i'll see you saturday! 2
weekends in arow, what a treat!
  p.s. several people said very nice things about you at the ball.
isn't it nice to be loved?
  moi

>>> "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> 10/03 5:09 PM >>>

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined
Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if
anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between
Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the
early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of
that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the
aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus
what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for
me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere. 
(I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was
had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:32:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:31:30 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pinewoods Pictures
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f857e8.090-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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mary beth;
  good stuff. sam is adorable! and you had daron; i LOVE that lady!
  enjoy, sharon

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 2:17 AM >>>
I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at
Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html 

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:40:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:40:02 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Imagined Village
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f859ed.077-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECD folk;
  oops, sorry;  never answer morris list messages (replies go to
sender) and ecd list messages (replies go to the list) in the same
sitting. but of course i was only saying something nice. for once.
  sharon

>>> Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> 10/04 7:26 AM >>>
hey, susie;
  i never got to say goodbye. but i guess i'll see you saturday! 2
weekends in arow, what a treat!
  p.s. several people said very nice things about you at the ball.
isn't it nice to be loved?
  moi

>>> "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU> 10/03 5:09 PM >>>

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Stephanie Smith wrote:

> At the moment I'm reading Georgina Boyes' book _The Imagined
Village:
> Culture, Ideology and the English Folk Revival_ and wonder if
anyone
> else out there has read it.  It highlights the bitter feud between
Sharp
> and Mary Neal, and focuses on the rigid control Sharp had over the
early
> 20th century revival of English dance and song, and the legacy of
that
> early control.  One thing that interests me personally is the
aesthetic
> of English country dance as Sharp and his followers saw it versus
what
> we see in ECD now in the U.S.  Boyes' book requires concentration
> (certainly not light reading) and I think it will take a while for
me to
> digest.  I'd be very interested to know what others think of it.

The book has been discussed at some length on the MDDL (Morris Dance
Discussion List), whose archives are available on the web somewhere.

(I'm
sure someone else will jump in with the URL.)  

A discussion from an ECD perspective would be interesting.  (Guess I
should hurry and finish the book...)
 
> By the way, the Baltimore Ball was last night, and a good time was
had
> by all!

Heartily agreed, and thanks to all who made it happen.

	Susie Lorand
	Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:42:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:41:06 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Pinewoods Pictures
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85a30.096-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

AAAAAAAH! did it again. i give up.
  sharon

>>> Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> 10/04 7:31 AM >>>
mary beth;
  good stuff. sam is adorable! and you had daron; i LOVE that lady!
  enjoy, sharon

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 2:17 AM >>>
I've posted some pictures that Ron took at English Dance Week at
Pinewoods to:

http://mbgoodman.tripod.com/ecd1.html 

and a couple other pages linked to that one.

Enjoy!

Ron didn't seem to take as many pictures of actual dancing, but 
there's a great picture of a very young dancer. Not to be missed!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:44:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:44:04 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f85aeb.012-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
  sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
not an official list-server for any government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 04:56:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:55:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Email to Gene Murrow
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <bfd059f.2529efc8-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Gene Murrow (may his tribe increase) wrote:

If any personal or critical mail sent to me was recently rejected, please
re-send it.  Otherwise, please ignore/delete this message.  My email
address has NOT changed.

Please note that my address:  gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com  [equivalently
71332.2116-AT-
compuserve.com]  IS STILL VALID.  
Compuserve is correcting the problems with the account that resulted from a
recently installed update..

My (and, presumably, Compuserve's) apologies for any inconvenience this may
have caused you.

Yeah, c'mon Gene, 'fess up.  It's your evil twin, Skippy (probably delirious 
from a vampire bite) rerouting your mail through the clandestine address of a 
revolutionary cadre in (troubled country of choice here) and since you can't 
keep him under control your forced into making these lame excuses about 
updates.

We all have to face our dark side sometime, Gene.  Go re-read Jung.

Nilos Nevertheless, who worries about such things.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 08:49:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English Country Dacing (sic)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910041142290.18139-100000-AT-
battlezone.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Mike Mudrey wrote:

> English Country Dacing calling by Helene Cornelius music by
> Mike Briggs of McDuffs (Scottish and Contra)
> and 
> Karen Cornelius of Far From Home (Celtic)

Sounds fishy to me!  Is that something like Scottish Country Salmoning?
Or is it more like smelting (we do that over here in Michigan sometimes,
or at least we used to).

Eric Arnold, TFIC (tongue firmly in cheek...)
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:04:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:02:35 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F8DDAA.FC44A3D7-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <s7f85aeb.012-AT-
loc.gov>

Sharon A McKinley wrote:

> actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
> especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
> easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
> what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
>   sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
> not an official list-server for any government agency

There are pros and cons to both ways of setting up a list (reply to list
vs reply to sender).  The two major reasons for reply to list are:

This *is* a mailing list.  Most of the responses will be to the list.
Therefore, it's more inconvenient if you have to retype the list address
every time you want to respond to a posting.

When lists are set up to respond to the individual responders often just
hit "reply" and many discussions come quickly to a halt because the
responses went to the sender and not the list.  Now, for some lists that
makes more sense.  I don't think it makes sense for this one, but I'm not
in charge.  :-)

--Charlene

--
If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried
before.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:32:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:32:33 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37f8e4b1.69e0.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the list address.
I find this extremely annoying because I don't usually intend to respond only
to the individual sender and I sometimes forget to change it to the list address.
This results in a general reply only going to one person. I have another list
I'm on which does the same thing. Most replies are directed to the general interest
of everyone and the list should be set up to make general rather than individual
replies.

Andy in Portland 
(notice that I *did* remember to change the address)


Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:
>actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
>replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
>especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
>easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
>what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?
>  sharon "just curious, not to mention clutzy today" mckinley, and
>not an official list-server for any government agency
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:24:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 14:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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elk.uvm.edu>
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On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Sharon A McKinley wrote:

> actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?).
> especially with the overlap in personnel in morris and ecd, i confuse
> easily, and of course others have made the same or similar mistakes.
> what say? what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?

Well, there are two lists -- ECD and strathspey -- that have a lot of
overlap and both send to the list.  Maybe the morris list should change?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:29:55 PST
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 11:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991004183853.5430.rocketmail-AT-
web2903.mail.yahoo.com>
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Sharon, I agree completely.  I didn't include that in my original
post because I'm not sure how it relates to his qualifications as a
choice of partner to not dance with.  I guess it could go either way,
depending on how easily one is distracted by the sight of a
good-looking man on the dance floor.

Personally, I can think of many people I would rather not dance with
more than Rich.

Barbara Ruth and not an admirer of Rich Galloway for any government
agency or organization, public or private.



--- Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:

>   i can attest to the fact that, if nothing else, rich is cute. 
>   sharon "thanks for the dance at the ball, rich" mckinley, and
> darn
> glad that he's part of the balto-dc dance community, but not for
> any
> government agency
> 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:26:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:25:26 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country dance traditions
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000201bf0e9e$35f40770$fb98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Hello, Bob (and others),

First off, I must say that I am not a researcher, despite what my questions
to you (about your hypothesis, sources, etc. ) may have led you to believe.
I simply enjoy asking questions as ideas occur to me and then exploring the
ideas through reading and  in discussions with other folks.

Now let's start, for no particular reason, with the question of whether one
can characterize a dance by its figures as to whether it is English,
Scottish, Early American, or American contra.

Here are two dances from the country dance repertoire.  Can you identify
their time period and their tradition, based solely on a reading of the
figures?

Dance #1.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half turn.
13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
place.
25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

Dance #2.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd
place)
9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
place)
17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
cast off to  second place (2s move up)
25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.

__________
Have you seen Stephanie Smith's posting on The Imagined Village, wherein she
asks about Sharp's tradition and modern ECD? If this thread is developed, it
could add a useful perspective to our discussion.

Till later,

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 12:26:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:26:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Quale <quale-AT-
cs.swarthmore.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9910041518170.10723-100000-AT-
allspice.cs.swarthmore.edu>
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On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
> My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the list
> address. 

when i hit "r" to reply, i am given a "use 'reply-to' address rather than
sender? y/n" prompt (by PINE 4.10); if i choose yes, my reply goes to the
list, not the sender.  i assume that the ECD-list assigns the 'reply-to'
address to the posts, but that not all mail readers can take advantage of
this or give you an option?  

also, it sounded like part of sharon's problem was that when she reads a
message and wants to reply, she's not sure which list it came from.  i
handle this with procmail; most mail readers (Eudora, Netscape, Outlook)
have good filtering which can direct all the ECD mail to one folder, all
the Morris mail to another.  this is normally (note, normally!) enough to
combat my confusion ...

of course, the separate ECD, strathspey, and Morris lists are really an
illusion, and we should just have one big list about bastardized french
renaissance dances and their descendents, right? :>

--will

Will's Hole in the Web		     http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~quale
Folk Dance Club's Page	    http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/folkdance

			"Faith manages." -- Delenn

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:06:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:05:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGQJY6K2OO99E61R-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Folks --

(1) I set up the list, and I chose the "reply to list" option when I did so,
mostly for the reasons Charlene suggests: This is meant to be a discussion 
list, and the default response, I thought, should be a public one.  Despite
the occasional minor embarrassment, the convenience of the membership as a 
whole is better served by reply-to-list.

(2) How hard it is to reply to the sender rather than to the list depends on
what mail client software you use.  It happens that the mail client software
_I_ primarily use makes it hard to do this.  Some mail client software guesses 
wrong about the original sender, so I occasionally get mail sent to owner-ecd
that was supposed to go to the origial sender.

(3) I have no intention of changing the list structure to make the envelope
'From' address be the sender, not the list.

(4) Will, isn't that 'bastardized offspring of _Italian_ Renaissance dance'?

(5) Sharon, I read the MDDL in digest form, so if I want to reply to a person
I have to type in the address, and if I want to reply to the list I need to 
change the subject line from "MDDL DIGEST".  I live with it.

-- Alan (sick at home with a sore throat, and possibly crankier than usual)



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 13:51:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:23:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: Larry Stout <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199910042023.PAA12876-AT-
goedel.iwu.edu>
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Patricia Ruggiero gives us two dance descriptions and asks us to identify 
whether they are English, Scottish, Early American, or contra.  OK, I'll take 
the bait.

Since both dances are triple minors we can rule out modern contra, where all 
dances seem to be improper duple minor and fairly balanced between the actives 
and inactives.

Distinguishing Early American from English and Scottish will be much more 
difficult, since Early American dances were English and Scottish.  The same 
sequences of figures do appear in different traditions-- Money in Both Pockets 
(Colonial American) and Dalkeith's Strathspey (RSCDS) have the same figures even 
though one is a jig and the other is a strathspey.

That being said, Dance 1 reads like an English dance from about the Apted book 
period (though the instruction "set to and turn corners" uses contra terminology 
rather than what I'd expect in an English dance).  I could picture it in a Jane 
Austen movie with high kneed setting, but otherwise elegant.

Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning 
away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed that 
you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the active 
couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both could 
be done in several different styles.  

So what were they?

Lawrence Neff Stout
Professor of Mathematics
Illinois Wesleyan University
http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout

"Fiddling is a viol habit."  Anon?
"Dancing is necessary in a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:26:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:29:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991005022956.10896.rocketmail-AT-
web2103.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov> wrote:
> >actually, has anyone suggested that the list be changed so that
> >replies DON'T go to the list (yes, they have, haven't they?)....of
> >course others have made the same or similar mistakes. what say?]
> >what ARE the reasons for keeping it this way?

Andy Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net> wrote:
> My replies always go to the individual unless I change it to the
> list address. I find this extremely annoying because I don't
usually > intend to respond only to the individual sender and I
sometimes
> forget to change it to the list address....Most replies are
directed > to the general interest of everyone and the list should be
set up to > make general rather than individual replies.

I wonder if whether your reply goes to the individual or the list is
a function of the server. My replies always go to the list. It's the
same list as Andy's on, but his reply works differently. Huh....

Lyrl




=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:56:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:55:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bf0edd$12676330$9198ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Larry, thanks for your reply.  There's some reasoning behind your choices
that I had not considered, and the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

I'd like to wait a day or two for others to reply, not because this is a
quiz, but because I really find it instructive to see what other folks think
of as English, or Scottish, or Early American, or American contra dance.

Stay tuned --

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Larry Stout
Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 4:23 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions


Patricia Ruggiero gives us two dance descriptions and asks us to identify
whether they are English, Scottish, Early American, or contra.  OK, I'll
take
the bait.

Since both dances are triple minors we can rule out modern contra, where all
dances seem to be improper duple minor and fairly balanced between the
actives
and inactives.

Distinguishing Early American from English and Scottish will be much more
difficult, since Early American dances were English and Scottish.  The same
sequences of figures do appear in different traditions-- Money in Both
Pockets
(Colonial American) and Dalkeith's Strathspey (RSCDS) have the same figures
even
though one is a jig and the other is a strathspey.

That being said, Dance 1 reads like an English dance from about the Apted
book
period (though the instruction "set to and turn corners" uses contra
terminology
rather than what I'd expect in an English dance).  I could picture it in a
Jane
Austen movie with high kneed setting, but otherwise elegant.

Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning
away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed
that
you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the
active
couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both
could
be done in several different styles.

So what were they?

Lawrence Neff Stout
Professor of Mathematics
Illinois Wesleyan University
http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout

"Fiddling is a viol habit."  Anon?
"Dancing is necessary in a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:22:48 PST
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205503b41f1b0131ff-AT-
[206.72.193.190]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000001bf0edd$12676330$9198ffd0-AT-
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At 10:55 PM -0400 10/4/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
>step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

Well I don't know if Pat meant her message to go list-wide or not, 
but I guess I need to ask -

what exactly is wrong with a rant?

Geesh.

It's only stepping for pete's sake. Not a sacrilege.  And it's fun.

Mary Beth <-- doesn't make comments about people who want to do waltzy dances

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:40:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 20:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGQZIPOOWY99E6UL-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> writes:

  Now let's start, for no particular reason, with the question of whether one
  can characterize a dance by its figures as to whether it is English,
  Scottish, Early American, or American contra.

Do most of those distinctions even make any difference?  Note that Early
American has very little that's uniquely American in it.  (There are some
tunes that seem to originate over here.  You don't see cotillions in ECD,
ordinarily, but that's a vagary of the revival, not a historical fact.)


  Here are two dances from the country dance repertoire.  Can you identify
  their time period and their tradition, based solely on a reading of the
  figures?

  Dance #1.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

  1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
  9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half turn.
  13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
  17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
  place.
  25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
  29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

This is very close to Bentley's rendition of "A Trip to Virginia" - my
notes don't show the 13-16 lead and cast. This is identified as "Johnson,
1750".  Just from reading the figures, I would have placed it as prior to
1780, and I wouldn't have an opinion about it being Early American or not.
(By the narrow-meshed net used for Millar's "Country Dances of Colonial 
America", it would probably have been included as Early American because
it mentions a colony in the title.)  Incidentally, when I tried this dance
I found my dancers got confused because of starting the turning corners
improper - the directions made it ambiguous whether the corners you turn
are the corners from your position (which leaves men turning men, women 
turning women) or your person (which means your corners are the ones in 
the same line you're standing in).  I opted for "person", but this was 
still confusing.

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Dance #2.  32 bars (four 8-bar phrases)

  1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
  5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd  
             place)
  9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
  13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
  place)
  17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
   cast off to  second place (2s move up)
  25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would guess this as after 1780.  (Clearly, 1/2 figure 8 is around from 
"Juice of Barley" forward, but finishing off with a rights-and-lefts is a 
very late-eighteenth-century thing to do.)  All that setting feels Scottish,
but that isn't outside the bounds of English dance.


If you gave us dances with "set and rigadoon" we'd figure we had Early
American, and we could probably diagnose Scottish with half-reels of four
or whatever the name of the figure where the actives are diagonally back 
to back with their partners and set to the people they're facing and then 
travel to face the other diagonals, and if you gave us "gypsy meltdown" we
could say "modern contra", but so long as we're working at this level of 
abstraction all the stuff is more or less the same.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 03:58:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:58:32 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: rich galloway
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910051058.GAA17887-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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I take a couple days off from the list and see what happens . . .

How about we end this thread here?  Before anyone disagrees with 
Sharon or Barbara.  :-)


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:09:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:08:34 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f9a427.039-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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mary beth (et al.);
  pat didn't mean anything by the rant comment. it's just that most
REAL people have never done Northwest, and ranting is WORK! great
stuff, but work!
  sharon "i love NW, myself" mckinley, and not an official
rant-'n'-raver for any government agency  ;-)

>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 10/04 11:05 PM >>>
At 10:55 PM -0400 10/4/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>the idea of doing Dance #2 entirely to a rant
>step never crossed my mind, thank goodness!

Well I don't know if Pat meant her message to go list-wide or not, 
but I guess I need to ask -

what exactly is wrong with a rant?

Geesh.

It's only stepping for pete's sake. Not a sacrilege.  And it's fun.

Mary Beth <-- doesn't make comments about people who want to do
waltzy dances

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:41:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:40:27 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: RE: Country dance traditions
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199910050740_MC2-87AC-1692-AT-
compuserve.com>
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The rant step? Used to like it BUT when you are in your seventies, with bum
knees (no cartilege in one and little left in the other) the minute a dance
with a rant step is mentioned, you determine to sit it out-it is a killer
for those with my type of infermities! I find that I can still teach
scottish and can fake it well when I dance, but not a rant, it just doesn't
work and if I try it I am done for that evening at least.

Ben Stein
Burlington, Vt.
dancers-AT-
compuserve.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:55:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 06:55:56 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Reply to Eric viz Helene Cornelius Visit to Madison
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991005065139.0098c820-AT-
popmail.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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But the evening was anything but fishy, Eric (also tongue in check).

Helene's presence attracted a group three times our normal size for about
three hours.  She and the music was able to bring in folks from Irish,
Scottish, Contra....!

They heard about it on  state public radio, local public radio (not
affiliated with the state system), newspapers and flyers at (hold your
breath) CONTRA dances!, and the net posting.

Now, if we can hold a few of them for more than couriousity!

mm


Mike Mudrey
P.O. Box 22
New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022

mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net

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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:17:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
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SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 10/4/99 4:10:49 PM, winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes:

<< I have no intention of changing the list structure to make the envelope
'From' address be the sender, not the list. >>

Thanks, Alan, & for that pesky sore throat take a little hot milk with honey, 
butter & rum.

Judy Grunberg
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:39:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:38:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Reply to Eric viz Helene Cornelius Visit to Madison
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Mike Mudrey wrote:

> But the evening was anything but fishy, Eric (also tongue in check).
> 
> Helene's presence attracted a group three times our normal size for about
> three hours.  She and the music was able to bring in folks from Irish,
> Scottish, Contra....!

Great!  So were you dancing like dace, or dacing like dancers?  (;-^)

> Now, if we can hold a few of them for more than couriousity!

Definitely don't let them wiggle away...

Anyway, keep on fishing!  Sounds like you had a great catch!

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:13:29 PST
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Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 13:19:16 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: replies to list
To: ECD-AT-
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Judy Grunberg writes:

>>Thanks, Alan, & for that pesky sore throat take a little hot milk with
honey,
butter & rum.

No, no!  For a sore throat, slam back a shot of bourbon, eat a wedge of
lemon with the peel still on it, and then eat a spoonful of honey.

Don't do this more than once an hour, however, even if you're only following
the regimen to show solidarity with a sick friend. . . .

Marian Phillips

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 17:22:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:23:14 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910060022.UAA28923-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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Alan Winston wrote:

> This is very close to Bentley's rendition of "A Trip to Virginia" 

Good spot Alan!  

> - my notes don't show the 13-16 lead and cast. 

It's there both Bentley (Fallibroome-3) and Johnson.

> This is identified as "Johnson, 1750".  Just from reading the
> figures, I would have placed it as prior to 1780, 

Bingo again!.  Bentley has the date wrong.  Trip to Virginia is in 
Volume 8 of Johnson's _200 Favourite Country Dances_, first 
published in 1758.  

> I wouldn't have an opinion about it being Early American or not.

Neither Trip to Virginia nor the figures are in Bob Keller's definitive 
_Dance Figures Index_ of American country dances.

> Incidentally, when I tried this dance I found my dancers got
> confused because of starting the turning corners improper - the
> directions made it ambiguous whether the corners you turn are the
> corners from your position (which leaves men turning men, women
> turning women) or your person (which means your corners are the
> ones in the same line you're standing in).  I opted for "person",
> but this was still confusing. 

I'm not sure what you mean about starting the corners improper.  The 
way I've always danced it is to start the corner turns from middle 
place proper.  (Cross & cast + 1/2 turn leaves you proper.) 

That sounds like a good analysis of Dance #2, too.  We'll find out 
from Pat whether you're right.  But obviously, you can still think 
clearly, even on your sick bed.  

Get better soon.
Rich

====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 08:41:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:41:55 -0400
From: judith <judid-AT-
att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: costume exhibit NYC
To: ECD2 <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <19991006154105.HZVU20426-AT-
[12.79.164.56]>
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There is a wonderful exhibit of reproductions of 18th century women's
costume at the Museum at the Fashion Institute of Technology. It is a
student exhibit and the costumes are made with great attention to
detail using. . . designer sheets.

The exhibit is called "Linens: Off the Bed and onto the Stage"

The museum is in NYC at the corner of 27th street and 7th avenue
Open to the public Tuesday-Friday 12-8 and Saturday 10-5
Admission is free
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:23:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:29:01 -0400
From: Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English or Contra in Calgary, Alberta, CAN?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991006182901.006d2708-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
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I recently met someone from Calgary, Alberta, Canada who is interested in
doing English country dancing or contra. Does anyone know of a group, dance
or people there (or even near there) who might be of some help?

Don Bell
Albany, NY
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 15:59:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 18:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: ArcadiaCB-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: costume exhibit NYC
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, penny.creative.outlets-AT-
pop.erols.com
Message-ID: <627f5020.252d2e3c-AT-
aol.com>
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thought you might appreciate this--after the gowns made with paper.
Charlene
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:01:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Halloween Dance with Rich Galloway
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991006231013.19057.rocketmail-AT-
web2902.mail.yahoo.com>
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Well, since we were on the subject, I would just like to point out
that anyone who wishes can come and not dance with Rich Galloway on 
Sunday, October 31 at the Branford Community Center, Branford, CT,
Halloween English dance, where he will be too busy calling to do any
dancing himself (demonstration steps and a waltz will be permitted). 
Music will be by Marshall Barron, Grace Feldman, and Force of Nature
Margaret Ann Martin, with possible other guest musicians.

Costumes are encouraged.  Dancers are invited to come dressed as a
dance of your choice, and if the caller can guess the dance he will
call it.  Please choose costumes from the regular New Haven
repertoire, which may be found listed on my admittedly messy website
at http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html (and then again
maybe not, depending on how good your browser is).  If that seems
like too much effort, come in any old costume and we can  all enjoy
seeing what dance Rich can make out of it.  Those not in costume will
be subject to being made fun of.

Dance is 2:00 p.m. to 5:00 p.m., admission $8.00.  Directions to the
Branford Community Center are below.


Directions to the Branford Community Center:
Take I-95 to exit 54, Cedar Street exit (if coming from the north,
take I-91 to interchange with I-95.) Take Cedar Street towards
Branford Center (crossing over Route 1) until it ends at Main Street.
Turn left onto Main Street, but get immediately into the far-right
lane. Main Streets splits in front of the Branford Cinema, into Main
and South Main Streets. Stay right at the split, on South Main. The
second street, after the split, is Church Street. Make a right onto
Church Street and follow it almost to the end. The Branford Community
Center is the large building on the right. The dance will be on the
second floor. There is lots of parking.

=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:50:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:01:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 2nd Annual New Haven English Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991007000151.24590.rocketmail-AT-
web2905.mail.yahoo.com>
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I would also like to announce the 2nd Annual New Haven ECD Ball,     
                         the "Elm City Assembly" will take place
January 22, 2000, once again at St. Thomas’s Episcopal Church, in New
Haven, CT.
Information and registration forms may be found at some of your local
dances or also at my website
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html.  Anyone who has
trouble getting it from either of those sources may email me off-line
and I will email you a copy.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:02:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:01:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: BACDS Playford Ball in Oakland, 3/25/2000 - dance list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGTKVTB01K9FMLYT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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ECD'ers --

The BACDS Playford Ball will be held in Oakland, California, at the Greek
Orthodox Cathedral of the Ascension - a new and larger site - on March 25
of next year.  There will be a Preview/Rehearsal dance the night before, 
at the San Mateo Masonic Temple.

The website isn't up yet; when it is, it will be reachable at 
www.bacds.org/playford

I have put together a program for it.  (The theme is Alice in Wonderland,
but I've reached into Snark-land to divide the program into three Fits
and a Start; the Start is a grand march.)

For those interested, here is the dance list:

-----------------------------
Barbarini's Tambourine (2/4, D)
The Black Nag (6/8, Dm)
Corelli's Maggot (2/4, D)
Easter Morn  (4/4, Cm)
Fandango (6/8, D) *
Hambleton's Round O (3/2, Am)
Indian Princess (2/2, F)
An Irish Lamentation (3/4, G)
Joy After Sorrow (3/4, Am) *
Knives and Forks (3/2, G)
Lobster (La Russe) Quadrille  (4/4, G)
Midnight Ramble (4/4, D)
Mutual Promises (2/4, D) *
Never Love Thee More (6/8, G)
Rafe's Waltz   (3/4, Dm)
Shrewsbury Lasses (4/4 D)
Walpole Cottage (4/4, D)
The Young Widow (6/8, G)
------------------------------
* = "For those who know" - although the tradition at this ball is that
there are no walk-throughs, only talk-throughs; FTWK means no talk-through
in this case.

If you run a dance series and are likely to have people from your series attend
this ball and you want a packet of instructions (and, in some cases, notes) on
those dances, let me know (by replying to _me_, not to the list), and I'll 
send you one when the packets are available, which won't be for a few weeks
at least.

To anticipate one questions, "Mutual Promises" is a fearfully symmetrical 
triple minor to music by Mozart, written by John Hertz of Los Angeles in 
the late 1970s.  None of the figures are difficult, but it's unforgiving -
2s and 3s can't fall asleep - and there's a lot of it - 64 bars, I think.
I like this dance very much, and am taking this opportunity to inflict it
upon the general ECD community.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:05:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 14:05:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: JoAnne Rawls <ljrawls-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: BACDS Playford Ball in Oakland, 3/25/2000 - dance list
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991007180545.77132.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alan,

I'm replying to the list, rather than privately, because I know there are 
other avid Mozarteans out there who are dying to know what music is used for 
Mutual Promises. Can you enlighten us?

JoAnne (inquiring minds want to know) Rawls
Newport News, VA

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:15:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:15:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007180844.24967B-100000-AT-
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Dear Marjorie and all interested,

Watch out!  You've 'inferred' from what i said what I didn't say or mean!
That is, that country dances were influenced by Italian dancing masters.
What I remarked on was the remarkable coincidences among some of the
figures. Whether they were simultaneously (or so) conceived, or whether
the English influenced the Italians or v.v. we don't know.

My primary goal as a scholar is to find out the truth.  But that doesn't
mean that I intend to invent it! My next goal is to distinguish truth from
fiction.  The problem with most dance history, as it circulates today, is
that the standards are not rigorous enough. In other words, if the
astronauts actually flew to the moon we have to have hard and precise
evidence of it; guessing won't do!

Julia





On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

> I appreciate Rich Galloway's successful effort at tact - and I do
> apologize for my lack of tact in "disagreeing" with Julia Sutton. What I
> really intended was to offer Albert Blank some information contradicting
> the notion that "no country dances had been performed at court earlier
> than in the realm of Charles II", and I got a bit carried away by some
> of my long-presumed notions about the origins of "country dances".
> 
> The sources quoted (below)in Rich's response I found in John Nichols,
> "The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth", volumes I
> and III, London, 1823.
> 
> Rich Galloway wrote: > "The following excerpt from a secondary source
> (sorry, I forgot to note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed
> early 17th century text:
> > 
> > "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
> > 
> > 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"
> 
> Can it be inferred that these "pleasant dances" danced by "tenants", as
> well as the occasion at Warwick Castle in 1572 where "it pleased her to
> have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
> the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
> which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
> Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry", were popular, common
> dances (I'm trying to avoid using the loaded word "country") which other
> sources tell us were enjoyed at court as a contrast to the "grave
> measures"?
> 
> I realize this is a complex subject and that I quoted sources which are
> not the best, but I do still wonder about the indigenous nature of these
> country dances, affected though they were by influences such as the
> Italian dancing masters.
> 
> Marjorie McLaughlin
> San Diego, CA
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:15:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:15:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007180844.24967B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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Dear Marjorie and all interested,

Watch out!  You've 'inferred' from what i said what I didn't say or mean!
That is, that country dances were influenced by Italian dancing masters.
What I remarked on was the remarkable coincidences among some of the
figures. Whether they were simultaneously (or so) conceived, or whether
the English influenced the Italians or v.v. we don't know.

My primary goal as a scholar is to find out the truth.  But that doesn't
mean that I intend to invent it! My next goal is to distinguish truth from
fiction.  The problem with most dance history, as it circulates today, is
that the standards are not rigorous enough. In other words, if the
astronauts actually flew to the moon we have to have hard and precise
evidence of it; guessing won't do!

Julia





On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:

> I appreciate Rich Galloway's successful effort at tact - and I do
> apologize for my lack of tact in "disagreeing" with Julia Sutton. What I
> really intended was to offer Albert Blank some information contradicting
> the notion that "no country dances had been performed at court earlier
> than in the realm of Charles II", and I got a bit carried away by some
> of my long-presumed notions about the origins of "country dances".
> 
> The sources quoted (below)in Rich's response I found in John Nichols,
> "The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth", volumes I
> and III, London, 1823.
> 
> Rich Galloway wrote: > "The following excerpt from a secondary source
> (sorry, I forgot to note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed
> early 17th century text:
> > 
> > "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
> > 
> > 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"
> 
> Can it be inferred that these "pleasant dances" danced by "tenants", as
> well as the occasion at Warwick Castle in 1572 where "it pleased her to
> have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
> the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
> which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
> Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry", were popular, common
> dances (I'm trying to avoid using the loaded word "country") which other
> sources tell us were enjoyed at court as a contrast to the "grave
> measures"?
> 
> I realize this is a complex subject and that I quoted sources which are
> not the best, but I do still wonder about the indigenous nature of these
> country dances, affected though they were by influences such as the
> Italian dancing masters.
> 
> Marjorie McLaughlin
> San Diego, CA
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:20:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:32:04 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Advanced Dance For Experienced Dancers
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37FCD913.26B0-AT-
javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JGTKVTB01K9FMLYT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Dancers -

The third weekend in October marks our Gene Murrow dance extravaganza
with an ECD on Saturday night accompanied by Pleasures of the Town
followed by an 'advanced' ECD on Sunday afternoon.  Here are the
specifics:

Dance for all

Saturday, October 16th, 8 - 11 pm., Munson Library, South Amherst, MA
Prompting by Gene Murrow
Music by Pleasures of the Town (Joyce Crouch, piano, Doug Creighton,
flute and melodeon, Ted Ehrhard, fiddle)

Advanced Dance

Sunday, October 17th, 2 - 5:30 pm., Munson Library, South Amherst, MA
Prompting by Gene Murrow
Music by Ted Ehrhard, fiddle and Margaret Ann Martin, piano

Contact for travel directions: Mary Jones 413-549-8159 or email
mjones-AT-
javanet.com

See you there!

Mary Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:40:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007181604.24967C-100000-AT-
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Dear Mary,

The difficulty of judging evidence is manifest in your note.  The author
of "A Worlde of Wordes," 1598 (N.B.), John Florio, changes his definition
of 'chiarantana' in 1611, in the revision of his dictionary. The new
edition, called "Queene Anna's New World of Words," says:

Chiaranta'na, a kinde of Caroll or song full of leapings like a Scottish
gigge, some take it for the Almaine-leape.

Furthermore, his definition does not match Caroso's 'Chiaranzana,' which
is not a leaping dance, or the two other longways dances in Negri! Here we
have two primary sources disagreeing with a third primary source.  Which
to believe? Not certain yet.

Sorry! you see how difficult it can be to try for precision.

Julia






On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mary Railing wrote:

>   The dances done by the country people in Elizabeth's presence need not
> have been "country dances" as we know them.  They could have been the
> simple circle and line dances that coexisted with other forms of dance
> throughout the fifteenth century.
>   Where country dances are referred to in Elizabethan sources, we don't
> even know how much the term covered and whether the definition changed
> over time.  An English-Italian dictionary of 1602 defines the Italian verb
> "chiaranzare" as "to dance to ballads, as a country dance" implying that
> the definitive feature of country dances was the music.  Thomas Morley in
> his "Plaine and Easie Instruction in Practical Musick" mentions country
> dances in his list of types of music and refers to them as "our English
> country dances", so he must have seen something indiginous about them, but
> whether it was the music or the figures he doesn't say.
> 
> --Mary Railing 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 15:40:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991007181604.24967C-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear Mary,

The difficulty of judging evidence is manifest in your note.  The author
of "A Worlde of Wordes," 1598 (N.B.), John Florio, changes his definition
of 'chiarantana' in 1611, in the revision of his dictionary. The new
edition, called "Queene Anna's New World of Words," says:

Chiaranta'na, a kinde of Caroll or song full of leapings like a Scottish
gigge, some take it for the Almaine-leape.

Furthermore, his definition does not match Caroso's 'Chiaranzana,' which
is not a leaping dance, or the two other longways dances in Negri! Here we
have two primary sources disagreeing with a third primary source.  Which
to believe? Not certain yet.

Sorry! you see how difficult it can be to try for precision.

Julia






On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Mary Railing wrote:

>   The dances done by the country people in Elizabeth's presence need not
> have been "country dances" as we know them.  They could have been the
> simple circle and line dances that coexisted with other forms of dance
> throughout the fifteenth century.
>   Where country dances are referred to in Elizabethan sources, we don't
> even know how much the term covered and whether the definition changed
> over time.  An English-Italian dictionary of 1602 defines the Italian verb
> "chiaranzare" as "to dance to ballads, as a country dance" implying that
> the definitive feature of country dances was the music.  Thomas Morley in
> his "Plaine and Easie Instruction in Practical Musick" mentions country
> dances in his list of types of music and refers to them as "our English
> country dances", so he must have seen something indiginous about them, but
> whether it was the music or the figures he doesn't say.
> 
> --Mary Railing 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:35:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: duplicate messages
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000101bf112d$409b18d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally receive
two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two messages on
Eliz. I etc.?

I see that Julia's messages show a CC going to the same address.  Is this
the reason? Is it always the reason?

Many thanks for an explanation.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 18:50:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:49:58 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205508b422fd6d47da-AT-
[206.72.193.168]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)"
References: <000101bf112d$409b18d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>


--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)
Content-type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally receive
>two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two messages on
>Eliz. I etc.?

For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying 
to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address 
from the To: line and the other from the reply to: line.

Look at the header that came with your message:

Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: duplicate messages
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Warnings-to: <>
Reply-to: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

Mary Beth

--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)
Content-type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

<excerpt>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I
occasionally receive

two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two
messages on

Eliz. I etc.?

</excerpt>

For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying
to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address
from the To: line and the other from the reply to: line.


Look at the header that came with your message:


Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET

Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400

From: Patricia Ruggiero <<ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>

Subject: duplicate messages

Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

<color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>To: English Dance
<<ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

</color>Warnings-to: <<>

<color><param>FFFF,0000,0000</param>Reply-to:
ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU


</color>Mary Beth  

--Boundary_(ID_bzNcd2f+QwYYglhfX2WWqw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 19:13:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:12:47 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000701bf1132$9d88d2d0$5798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Thanks, Mary Beth.  I think I understand....

Pat
    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Mary Beth Goodman
    Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:50 PM
    To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
    Subject: Re: duplicate messages


    At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

        Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I occasionally
receive
        two copies of the same message, most recently Julia Sutton's two
messages on
        Eliz. I etc.?


    For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying to
reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address from the
To: line and the other from the reply to: line.

    Look at the header that came with your message:

    Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET
    Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400
    From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
    Subject: duplicate messages
    Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
    To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
    Warnings-to: <>
    Reply-to: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU

    Mary Beth

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3612.1706"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3>Thanks, Mary Beth.&nbsp; I think I understand....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=183570902-08101999><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial 
size=3>Pat</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> 
    owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU 
    [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of</B> Mary Beth 
    Goodman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 
    ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: duplicate 
    messages<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>At 9:34 PM -0400 10/7/99, Patricia Ruggiero 
    wrote:<BR>
    <BLOCKQUOTE>Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I 
        occasionally receive<BR>two copies of the same message, most recently 
        Julia Sutton's two messages on<BR>Eliz. I etc.?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>For me 
    it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm trying to reply 
    quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the one address from the To: line 
    and the other from the reply to: line.<BR><BR>Look at the header that came 
    with your message:<BR><BR>Delivered-To: mgoodman-AT-
ALBANY.NET<BR>Date: Thu, 07 
    Oct 1999 21:34:24 -0400<BR>From: Patricia Ruggiero 
    &lt;ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: duplicate messages<BR>Sender: 
    owner-ecd-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><?color><?param FFFF,0000,0000>To: 
    English Dance &lt;ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU&gt;<BR><?/color>Warnings-to: 
    &lt;&gt;<BR><?color><?param FFFF,0000,0000>Reply-to: 
    ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU<BR><BR><?/color>Mary Beth 
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_cTpnoHTh7sdL6+bVcPbckQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 13:25:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:25:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910082025.QAA22700-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Volume 1: Favorites of the Boston Centre (available now)
Volume 2: More Favorites of the Boston Centre (available mid-late November)

Volume 3: working title: Simple Pleasures (fun entry-level dances)

Volume 4: working title: Modern Favorites (recent dances by known composers)

You are invited to help us fill your needs and desires! We are working
on the list of selections for v3 and v4. If you have any suggestions, please
send them to me.  (We can't guarantee that your suggestions will be selected
but it can't hurt to try.)  

Look for them in 2000! 

Recording website: http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/recording/


For the CDS Boston Centre Recording Committee,
Dan Pearl

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:17:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 17:17:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: duplicate messages
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net, mgoodman-AT-
albany.net, jsutton-AT-
world.std.com
Message-ID: <0.3b112d70.252fb969-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Patricia Ruggiero wrote:

 >Would someone kindly explain to this techno-dud why I
 >occasionally receive two copies of the same message, most
 >recently Julia Sutton's two messages on Eliz. I etc.? 
 >
 >I see that Julia's messages show a CC going to the same address.
 >Is this the reason? Is it always the reason?

And Mary Beth wrote:

 >For me it happens if I hit reply to all by accident, while I'm
 >trying to reply quoting a selection of the text - it pulls the
 >one address from the To: line and the other from the reply to:
 >line.

FWIW, each of Julia's messages are appearing twice on the digest.
Julia, could you please check to see that the list address appears
only once in the "addressee" section of you mail window when you
post?

Julia, Mary Beth, and Patricia will each get two copies of this
message because I always cc my posts to the people I'm responding
to. Others should get it only once.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 00:53:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 00:53:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGWTPKBF3M9KMIFZ-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Lawrence Neff Stout wrote (days and days ago, but I just figured out what 
was bugging me about it, and Pat hasn't opened the box yet)

  Dance 2 felt Scottish to me because of all the setting just prior to turning
  away from the person you set to.  Running through it im my head I noticed that
  you could do the whole dance in a rant and it would be fun (though the active
  couple would be exhausted by the end of a long set).

It'd be a great fit to Flowers of Edinburgh ("or any good rant tune", as the
Community Dances Manual sometimes says.)  However, I don't believe it, unless
the dance is a recent composition.  If I'd quoted the dance here, you could see
that it ends with four changes of rights and lefts, which (as far as i can
tell) _never_ shows up in traditional  dances, which is where rants show up.

  I wouldn't be surprised to hear they were both Early American or that both
  could be done in several different styles.

Structurally, "Early American" is late-eighteenth century ECD - we just do it 
with a little more attention to the steps than when we do ECD.  (An Early
American dance might have eight counts of "foot it" reconstructed as "set and
rigadoon" while an ECD would have "set right and left twice.")  Scottish is
late eighteenth century ECD with more attention to footwork, which may or may
not be authentic or uniquely Scottish, and may or may closely resemble what 
the English were doing with it at the time.  So in some senses it's meaningless
to look at figures and say "it's Early American" or "it's Scottish."  In other
senses, of course, if the dance is in Griffith's 1788 book, it's unquestionably
Early American, and if it's one of the RSCDS numbered collections, it's a
Scottish dance - but the same figures could fit well with both.

I'm not arguing with you, specifically; just like me in another post, you're
just playing Patricia's game.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:18:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991012143354.19610.rocketmail-AT-
web2906.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi Dan,
   Will volume 4 include recent dances with older tunes, or just
recent dances with recently composed tunes?  

   Some that come to mind immediately are Colin Hume's "Elizabeth",
"Winter Memories" and  "Unrequited Love", Gary Roodman's "New
Beginnings" and "Sarah".  Fried's "Wood Duck".  Also, two years ago
at Pinewoods English Week, Philippe (1 l, 2 p's) taught a beautiful
dance that he had written, "Patrick's Waltz", to an absolutely
gorgeous tune, that I believe he said had been written by a friend. 
I don't remember if the tune had the same name or not, only that it
made me think of old-fashioned carousels with brightly painted horses
and gilded trappings, and ice cream cones and romance, and that I
wanted to hear it again and again.  Given the limited distribution of
that dance within the U.S., I suspect that most people here haven't
heard the tune, so it might not get named a lot, but I sure would
love to be able to listen to it again! (Not to mention dance to it
again.)

Barbara Ruth


--- Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com> wrote:
 
> Volume 3: working title: Simple Pleasures (fun entry-level dances)
> 
> Volume 4: working title: Modern Favorites (recent dances by known
> composers)
> 
> You are invited to help us fill your needs and desires! We are
> working
> on the list of selections for v3 and v4. If you have any
> suggestions, please
> send them to me.  (We can't guarantee that your suggestions will be
> selected
> but it can't hurt to try.)  
> 
> Look for them in 2000! 
> 
> Recording website: http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/recording/
> 
> 
> For the CDS Boston Centre Recording Committee,
> Dan Pearl
> 
> 


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:34:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:33:56 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03130300b428f73dfc1b-AT-
[140.186.55.115]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Wood Duck is already recorded danceably on their first CD.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:40:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:55:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Future English Country Dance Collection releases
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991012145521.9136.rocketmail-AT-
web2903.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ah.  I forget what is actually on that recording, only that I love
it.
B.

--- "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:
> Wood Duck is already recorded danceably on their first CD.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:02:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:01:49 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country dance traditions (long)
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000001bf14e4$3cff3340$f398ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 Dance #1.  Trip to Virginia. Jig. Longways triple minor

  1-8.       1st and 2nd couples set and cross.  Repeat to places.
  9-12.     1st couple cross, cast down one place (2s move up), and half
turn.
  13-16.   1st couple lead through 3rd couple and cast up to middle place.
  17-24.   Set to and turn corners, ending with the 1s improper in second
  place.
  25-28.   Circle 6 hands once around.
  29-32.   1st couple dance 1/2 fig. 8 up.

My source is Fallibroome, Bk.3, which says the dance is from Johnson, 1750.
I'll quote Rich Galloway as to the corrected source: "Bentley has the date
wrong.  Trip to Virginia is in Volume 8 of Johnson's _200 Favourite Country
Dances_, first published in 1758."

Thanks to Rich for answering Alan's post.

I had imagined that some folks might think this a Scottish dance because of
the figures  "Set and cross; repeat to places" and "Set to and turn
corners."  These seem rarely, if ever, found in dances we now characterize
as "English," yet they are common enough in dances we now characterize as
"Scottish."

(An aside: why the heck is that half-turn in there?  Why not cross for 2
bars, cast for 2 bars, and 1/2  fig. 8 down for 4 bars?  I'd love to see the
original instructions for this dance, but I'm assuming that Bentley didn't
make up that half-turn.)

Dance #2.  Lamb Skinnet. Jig.  Longways triple minor

1-4.       1s set and cast down to second place (2s move up)
5-8.       1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 2s (1s finish improper in 2nd
place)
9-12.     1s set and cast down to third place (3s move up)
13-16.   1s dance 1/2 fig. 8 up around the 3s (1s finish proper in 3rd
place)
17-24.   1s lead up the center to first place (2s and 3s move down); 1s set,
cast off to  second place (2s move up)
25-32.   1s and 2s dance rights and lefts.

RSCDS Bk. 14 attributes this to Thompson, 1751.

This time I thought folks might just take this for an ordinary English
dance, as I did when I first read the figures.  Larry's comment, that it
seemed Scottish because dancers turned away from the people to whom they had
just set, gave me pause, as did Alan's that "all that setting feels
Scottish."  They both have a point; these are features that don't seem to
occur in English as we now do it.  The tune is a light-hearted jig, somewhat
in the nature of Gigue for Genny (in Barnes).  I tried doing the dance
English style and would say, as Alan further observed, the dance "isn't
outside the bounds of English dance."

What primarily interests me here is how we came to associate certain figures
or sequences of figures with either ECD or SCD. Consider these examples:

1) In a Scottish class the teacher announces an 18th c. dance from one of
the official RSCDS books.  The music is a fine Scottish tune; the dance
directions are ordinary in every way.  We start to dance, only to discover
that some figure feels awkward, or some transition from one figure to
another isn't smooth, or the "story line" seems odd.  Dancers will be heard
muttering, "This is weird.  Must be an English dance."

2) A couple of years ago I taught "Philandering" (Fallibroome, Bk. 6,
attributed to W. Blackman, 1826) to our English group.  One of the Scottish
dancers in the group was quite surprised by the last figure: "I didn't know
English had double triangles!"

I start with the assumption that SCD was not a separate tradition in the
18th c.  The books of dance instructions from that period may reveal
changing tastes over the century, but I assume that most of the dances in
any given book were danced with equal delight in Edinburgh and in London.  I
further assume that we have to look to events in the 19th and 20th centuries
to understand the development of the differing styles and repertoire of ECD
and SCD.  In the 19th c., after country dances left the ballroom, the
repertoire of dances, tunes, and specific figures was likely the result of
local and regional tastes.  In the 20th c., Cecil Sharp and Jean Milligan
created different revivalist traditions, each of which has continued to
evolve in its own way.

To return to the two examples:  In the first case, the likely reason the
dance feels "weird" is because RSCDS dancers are now limited to certain
steps, and walking is not one of them.  Figure sequences that flow easily
when walked (or done to some other steps, if such were available) may not
work when execution is confined to skip-change, pas de basque, and slipping.
So the figure, or the sequence, is labeled "English," and an otherwise very
nice 18th c. country dance is lost to modern SCD.

In the second example, the opinion is expressed that double triangles is an
SCD figure.  True, it was a Scottish dancer who said this; but I suspect if
I wrote an English dance with this figure and presented it to a group of
experienced English dancers, half the dancers wouldn't recognize it at all
and the other half would tease me for introducing a Scottish figure into an
English dance.

Whether it's "double triangles," or "set to and turn corners," or "cross and
set, repeat to places" (or "set and cross, repeat"), or "all that setting,"
or "turning away from the person you just set to," there are figures and
sequences that we now think of as the provenance of either SCD or ECD that
were part of a common vocabulary in the 18th century.

As for Early American and American contra figures, my interest is the same:
not to pigeonhole a figure as to a particular country dance style, but to
explore the evolution of  figures across the centuries by looking at who was
dancing the dances, when, how, and under what circumstances.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:52:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NOMAD Update
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Peggy Vermilya <mtv-AT-
uconect.net>
Message-ID: <19991013175247.26710.rocketmail-AT-
web2906.mail.yahoo.com>
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This is to let everyone know that the NOMAD schedule (aka "event
grids") has been posted on the NOMAD site at:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/8797/

This year there are *10 hours* of English dancing spread over
Saturday and Sunday, including a large number of experienced
workshops, and that's not counting the guerrilla English that Sharon
Green will be sneaking into any open unused room she can find. (It
won't easy Sharon, the grid is PACKED).  Having served for the first
time on the Programing Committee I now know how fiendishly difficult
it is to program 19 hours of music and dance into 9 simultaneous
venues, while having to take into account things like who can be
where by what time, and who has to be gone by when, which musicians
are playing in how many different bands for how many different
workshops and have to be able to get themselves and their instruments
from one end of the school to the other (not to mention a few minutes
to gulp down lunch), what spaces we can get pianos into and which
ones can't be miked because there are SAT exams going on in the rooms
above, and of course, which ex-spouses or former band-mates can't be
put together on the same stage.  All I can say is, I am in awe of the
rest of the Program Committee for having succeeded in pulling this
all off for the past 11 years, not to mention all of you involved in
NEFFA, Dance Flurry, Heritage Festival etc., and still somewhat
baffled that the system actually work, and I DON"T WANNA HEAR ANY
COMPLAINTS about the fact that your favorite caller is on Sunday and
you're only going to be there Saturday or that we've programed the
open waltz session opposite an English session because the whole
thing is just impossible and somehow it gets done anyway.

The list of English callers this year includes: Robin Hayden, Andreas
Hayden, Fried Herman, Martha Davies, Graham Christian, Margary
Potter, Peggy Vermilya and Beverly Francis.  Gary Roodman will be
calling a session of his own compositions, and those of you who were
at his session at True Brit this past weekend know how much fun that
is. Those of you who missed it, HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!
  I want to especially thank Peggy Vermilya for being willing to step
in and do the only session marked for beginners this year, at my
request.  The glory and greatest exposure tends to go to those
calling advanced sessions, but the truth is calling for experienced
dancers is easy - I know because the one time I called an English
dance was at Pinewoods English Week a year ago, and you were all
terrific.  Knew right where to go no matter how badly I mangled the
instructions.  Calling for beginners who don't know what they're
doing is by far the more difficult job, and also the most important,
because we depend on getting a continued stream of newcomers if this
dancing is going to survive, and sessions like this are for many
people, their first impression of ECD.  They're only going to come
back if it's fun, and clear.  I asked Peggy to do the NOMAD session
after being impressed with the clarity of her teaching and directions
as MC of the first New Haven Ball and atthe summer Branford dance she
called.  I hope that those of you who will be at NOMAD Saturday will
make a point of being at Peggy's session, "English Country Dance
Favorites" Sat 5:00 p.m. in Gym 3, (which immediately follows
Sharon's officially scheduled "Joy of Sets" so you don't even have to
move), and being encouraging to budding newcomers, after which you
can have an hour break for dinner before moving on to Beverly
Francis' "Elegant English Dances" and running from "The Sublime to
the Vigorous" with Robin Hayden.

We know return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:29:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:29:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: NOMAD Update - Oops!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991013182944.29395.rocketmail-AT-
web2901.mail.yahoo.com>
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It's just been pointed out to me (by the same person who caught my
referring to the Hayden family members as the "Haydn" I might add)
that that should have been Martha _Davey_, not Davies.  Apology to
Martha but at least you're in good company.  I've gotten Robin and
Andreas, Phillipe, Martha all on the net, Peter Corbridge on a
Branford dance flier ... at the rate I'm going I should be able to
publicly mis-spell the names of every dance caller or musician in
ECD.


=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:44:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 20:44:50 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000b01bf15b3$6c5c97c0$eb82063e-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <000001bf14e4$3cff3340$f398ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>

Pat,

When you  say "SCD" does this mean "RSCDS", pre-RSCDS, or both?

Trev.




__________________________________________________

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Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 19:12:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:12:04 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000101bf15e9$826c4480$4b98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Trevor,

Unless I missed a reference or two when I re-read my message, then when I
speak of SCD I mean RSCDS-style Scottish.

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Trevor Monson
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 3:45 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions


Pat,

When you  say "SCD" does this mean "RSCDS", pre-RSCDS, or both?

Trev.




__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 02:38:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:38:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Portland English Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3805a48d.6be3.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Just to let people know, The Portland English Country Ball is one month away.
It is being held on November 13 in the Ballroom at the Portland Art Museum North
Annex, formerly the Masonic Temple. The venue is much larger than any we've
used in the past and there should be little problem accomodating everyone who
applies. 
Sharon Green regularly attends our Ball. Helene Cornelius came two years ago
to dance after calling the year before, and Chris Walker came from Cambridge
the next year. Lyrl is coming for the third time in four years. We regularly
have attendees from as far away as L.A. and Vancouver, BC.
For more information contact Paula Hamlin at <phamlin-AT-
easystreet.com> or mail
your name, address, day and evening phone and any request for housing with $29.00
per person to:           (checks made out to Paula Hamlin)
English Country Ball
c/o Paula Hamlin
21918 Columbia Circle
Tualatin, OR, 97062
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 10:08:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 12:03:58 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NEFFA warning, etc
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991014.125301.-129069.0.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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For those to whom it may apply (and who didn't get the message
from Dan Pearl), be warned that a bunch of NEFFA 2000 applications
sent in electronically have been lost, and you may wish to re-apply.
The deadline *is* Oct 16.  

Yep, lots of English dancing at NOMAD, and for those who wish to 
rest their weary tootsies, do come to the round singing session, 
where I plan to include a few jolly dance-related rounds by John
Krumm, Jonathan Jensen, etc.



++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 14:40:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 21:40:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Re: Portland English Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <38064dd6.5f60.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Not me, Sharon, I haven't flown for several years. Check with your local dance
group and see if you can qualify for some scholarship help. PCDC does that for
local dancers wanting to go to workshops.
Andy

>hey, andrew, you guys have frequent flyer miles to donate to needy
>dancers? ;-)
>  sharon 
>
>>>> Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net> 10/14 5:38 AM >>>
>Just to let people know, The Portland English Country Ball is one
>month away.
>It is being held on November 13 in the Ballroom at the Portland Art
>Museum North
>Annex, formerly the Masonic Temple. The venue is much larger than any
>we've
>used in the past and there should be little problem accomodating
>everyone who
>applies. 
>Sharon Green regularly attends our Ball. Helene Cornelius came two
>years ago
>to dance after calling the year before, and Chris Walker came from
>Cambridge
>the next year. Lyrl is coming for the third time in four years. We
>regularly
>have attendees from as far away as L.A. and Vancouver, BC.
>For more information contact Paula Hamlin at <phamlin-AT-
easystreet.com>
>or mail
>your name, address, day and evening phone and any request for housing
>with $29.00
>per person to:           (checks made out to Paula Hamlin)
>English Country Ball
>c/o Paula Hamlin
>21918 Columbia Circle
>Tualatin, OR, 97062
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 11:22:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:22:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <380770d1.89e.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>Could I find out what dances are planned.  Also, are the dances >called, walked
through or is there a brief reminder before the >start of each dance?  
>Thank you.
>
>Tom Amesse
>
My appologies for not adding these items to my original posting. There is a
workshop on Saturday afternoon from 12:30 until 3:00 at which as many dances
as possible will be worked on with particular emphasis upon those which will
not be taught that night. A breif walk-through is done of each dance, except
those noted, during the evening.
The list of dances from which the Ball program will be taken (with a * on the
"for those who know" dances) follows:
The Bishop
Hambleton's Round O
John Tallis Canon *
Miss De Jersey's Memorial *
Perpetual Motion
Sarah
A Trip to Paris
The Female Saylor
Heidenroslein
Juice of Barley
Mister Isaac's Maggot
Prince William *
Step Stately * Colin Hume Version
The Wives' Victory
Fetarlarick
Jack's Maggot
Long Pond
The Molly Andrew
Round Pond
A Trip to Hexham *
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:02:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 15:00:24 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0213051fb42d29ae9903-AT-
[155.33.181.184]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Dear andy,
 When you wrote
>Fetarlarick
I think you meant "Fentarlarick".

 What's the "Molly Andrew"?

 Best ,
 Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 12:19:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:19:43 +0200 (CEST)
From: Tom Goodale <goodale-AT-
aei-potsdam.mpg.de>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910152119020.1421-100000-AT-
saraband.aei-potsdam.mpg.de>
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Hi,

On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Andrew Peterson wrote:


> Step Stately * Colin Hume Version

How does this differ from the normal version ?

Tom


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:01:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:16:03 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991015210951.00b6d8e0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

If any New York folk who plan to go to Oregon for the ball are interested,
I could review some of the unfamiliar dances down at Duane on Tuesdays
during the break...
Optimistically.
Sharon Green (perpetual proponent of dancy gypsying)

At 06:22 PM 10/15/99 +0000, Andrew Peterson wrote:
>>Could I find out what dances are planned.  Also, are the dances >called, 
>walked
>through or is there a brief reminder before the >start of each dance?  
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Tom Amesse
>>
>My appologies for not adding these items to my original posting. There is a
>workshop on Saturday afternoon from 12:30 until 3:00 at which as many dances
>as possible will be worked on with particular emphasis upon those which will
>not be taught that night. A breif walk-through is done of each dance, except
>those noted, during the evening.
>The list of dances from which the Ball program will be taken (with a * on the
>"for those who know" dances) follows:
>The Bishop
>Hambleton's Round O
>John Tallis Canon *
>Miss De Jersey's Memorial *
>Perpetual Motion
>Sarah
>A Trip to Paris
>The Female Saylor
>Heidenroslein
>Juice of Barley
>Mister Isaac's Maggot
>Prince William *
>Step Stately * Colin Hume Version
>The Wives' Victory
>Fetarlarick
>Jack's Maggot
>Long Pond
>The Molly Andrew
>Round Pond
>A Trip to Hexham *

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 18:01:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 21:16:03 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991015210951.00b6d8e0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

If any New York folk who plan to go to Oregon for the ball are interested,
I could review some of the unfamiliar dances down at Duane on Tuesdays
during the break...
Optimistically.
Sharon Green (perpetual proponent of dancy gypsying)

At 06:22 PM 10/15/99 +0000, Andrew Peterson wrote:
>>Could I find out what dances are planned.  Also, are the dances >called, 
>walked
>through or is there a brief reminder before the >start of each dance?  
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Tom Amesse
>>
>My appologies for not adding these items to my original posting. There is a
>workshop on Saturday afternoon from 12:30 until 3:00 at which as many dances
>as possible will be worked on with particular emphasis upon those which will
>not be taught that night. A breif walk-through is done of each dance, except
>those noted, during the evening.
>The list of dances from which the Ball program will be taken (with a * on the
>"for those who know" dances) follows:
>The Bishop
>Hambleton's Round O
>John Tallis Canon *
>Miss De Jersey's Memorial *
>Perpetual Motion
>Sarah
>A Trip to Paris
>The Female Saylor
>Heidenroslein
>Juice of Barley
>Mister Isaac's Maggot
>Prince William *
>Step Stately * Colin Hume Version
>The Wives' Victory
>Fetarlarick
>Jack's Maggot
>Long Pond
>The Molly Andrew
>Round Pond
>A Trip to Hexham *

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 19:26:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1999 22:26:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.10.9910152226150.14334-100000-AT-
panix6.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Terence Gaffney wrote:

> Dear andy,
>  When you wrote
> >Fetarlarick
> I think you meant "Fentarlarick".
> 
>  What's the "Molly Andrew"?
  A piece of mumpsimus for "Merry Andrew"?

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:22:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:22:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <380835a9.6c2f.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>
>Hi,
>
>On Fri, 15 Oct 1999, Andrew Peterson wrote:
>
>> Step Stately * Colin Hume Version
>
>How does this differ from the normal version ?
>
>Tom
>

It's a five couple dance which I have done once in Seattle a couple years ago.
My personal feeling is that I'd rather do Sharp's version. Many lines of ten
dancers strung across the room at a ball just doesn't work in my opinion. It
is very difficult to get where you need to be with that many long lines. I can't
remember much about it and don't have the instructions in front of me. Maybe
Colin could enlighten the list.

Andy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 01:26:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:26:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3808369b.6c67.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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>Dear andy,
> When you wrote
>>Fetarlarick
>I think you meant "Fentarlarick".
>
Yes I missed the "n" when I was copying it.

> What's the "Molly Andrew"?
>
Again copied off the list on the flyer.  The Ball committees spelling not mine.
A dance not known to me personally.

Andy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 05:56:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:58:03 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Renn Dance Again! (Cambridge, MA)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910161256.IAA23802-AT-
chmls06.mediaone.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII
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Hello!  Its time (nearly) once again for the Fourth Tuesday Renn Dance.

On October 26 (that's a little over a week away, and a Tuesday), at
7:30, Meredith Courtney will teach a variety of dances and Sheila
Beardslee Bosworth (of the Boston Recorder Society, and known to many of
you) will play a variety of tunes on the recorder. Presumably they'll go
with each other:-)

The dances will be a variety chosen from amoungst the many published
dances of the 15th, 16th, and 17th centuries.  Included will be
bransles, Almans (purported ancestors of ECD), some early Playford (so
you get a chance to compare them with the Almans), and some complicated
Italian or French dances -- which really aren't *that* complicated; I'm
sure you'll all have no trouble with them.

Some of these dances are circle dances, (or at least we dance them that
way), some are processionals, some are couple dances, and some are more
or less individual.  Some are fast-paced and tiring, some are slow and
elegant.  Some are fast and elegant, when done right.

Where?  The beautiful Gothic-revival Old Cambridge Baptist Church, 1151
Mass Ave, just outside Harvard Square.  Free parking in the lot next to
the church; ignore all signs except those that say "HP plates only".

When?  October 26, 7:30-10pm, and every 4th Tuesday thereafter (though
with different teachers and musicians)

What about Food?  Period refreshments will be served.  Let me rephrase
that.  *Good*, *tasty*, period refreshments will be served.

How much will it cost?  A $5 donation is requested.

Any other questions?  Want to help out?  Call me or write me: 964-7684.
Presumably you know my email address by now, but in case not:
eclectic-AT-
mit.edu will reach me.

--Harald Longfellow

p.s.  I should mention that this dance series is co-sponsored by the
Country Dance Society, Boston Centre, and my company, Eclectic
Enterprises.  Any profits go to the musicians and teachers.




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 08:28:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 11:28:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: gaff-AT-
neu.edu, adpete-AT-
jps.net
Message-ID: <0.bb19ad8d.2539f387-AT-
aol.com>
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 >When you wrote
 >>Fetarlarick
 >I think you meant "Fentarlarick".

Actually, It's "Fenterlarick." There's an "e" in the middle, and
in this country, the period goes inside the quotes. Trust me.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 09:06:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:06:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910161202410.15842-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:

>  >When you wrote
>  >>Fetarlarick
>  >I think you meant "Fentarlarick".
> 
> Actually, It's "Fenterlarick." There's an "e" in the middle, and
> in this country, the period goes inside the quotes. Trust me.

Perhaps it's really "Fetalrarick," a new dance about to be born raring to
go, but with hiccups...    };-^>

Eric (holding up my copy of Barlow to deflect the flak) Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 10:35:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:51:05 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991016134846.00c7d5c0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Actually, it really was Fetalarick, named after the goat cheese turnovers
at an earlier New York ball.

Please, guys, can we now call this exchange a fait accompli?

Sharon Green

At 12:06 PM 10/16/99 -0400, Eric Arnold wrote:
>
>
>On Sat, 16 Oct 1999 DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com wrote:
>
>>  >When you wrote
>>  >>Fetarlarick
>>  >I think you meant "Fentarlarick".
>> 
>> Actually, It's "Fenterlarick." There's an "e" in the middle, and
>> in this country, the period goes inside the quotes. Trust me.
>
>Perhaps it's really "Fetalrarick," a new dance about to be born raring to
>go, but with hiccups...    };-^>
>
>Eric (holding up my copy of Barlow to deflect the flak) Arnold
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 10:29:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 13:25:50 -0400
From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199910171328_MC2-8950-C2B7-AT-
compuserve.com>
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>>> Step Stately * Colin Hume Version
>
>How does this differ from the normal version ?
>
>Tom
>

>It's a five couple dance which I have done once in Seattle a couple years
ago.
>My personal feeling is that I'd rather do Sharp's version. Many lines of
ten
>dancers strung across the room at a ball just doesn't work in my opinion.
It
>is very difficult to get where you need to be with that many long lines. I
can't
>remember much about it and don't have the instructions in front of me.
Maybe
>Colin could enlighten the list.

Andy
<

My version is explained in my book "Playford with a Difference" (available
from CDSS or myself - I accept English cheques and American checks - see my
web site at http://www.colinhume.freeserve.co.uk for full details).  As I
say there, I believe my version is pretty much the same as Cecil Sharp's
reconstruction, but (certainly in England) the version commonly danced has
some extraneous awkward moves added and these obscure the figure and make
it a much harder dance than it should really be.

Playford and Sharp both say the dance can be done by 3, 5, 7 or 9 couples,
but I'd only ever seen it done for three couples.  I think the advantages
of  the 5-couple version are that it's not so frantic - you're neutral some
of the time - and that you can see the shape of the figures better.  At any
rate, several people have said this to me.  I agree that the line of 10
across the room is often awkward, but this only occurs in one figure, once
at the beginning of the dance as an introduction and once at the end as a
finale.  The other two figures are done many more times and don't present
any problems of using space.

Colin Hume

(who wishes he could be at the Portland Ball to see what people think of
it!)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:30:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:38:13 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Step Stately
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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oz.net>
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Like Andy, I like the version of Step Stately that I first learned, (the 3
couple version reconstructed by Sharp). It makes a showy performance piece,
and I've taught it to Nonesuch and to two groups of high school performers.
 The constantly changing patterns are more interesting to watch than the
same patterns repeated more often.  The extraneous curlicues that Colin
eliminated look good, and performing groups have all the time in the world
to learn and perfect them.

But for recreational dancing, for a ball program or a dance camp workshop,
I choose Colin's version. Other callers agree--in the 35 years I've been
doing ECD, I've encountered the Sharp version once.  In the four years
since Colin published his reconstruction I've danced it 5 times, and
Portland's ball next month will be the sixth.    
    
Colin's reinterpretation has a few advantages.  One is that it is probably
more accurate-- read Colin's thorough and well-thought out explanation of
how he arrived at each decision he made in the dance (Its in Playford with
a Difference).  But I think even Colin would agree that that some dances,
when accurately reconstructed, aren't very satisfying, so while its an
advantage to the Colin Hume version that its more accurate, its not the
real reason to put it on a ball program instead of the Sharp version.  

The real reason for choosing Colin's reconstruction of Step Stately is that
it is more accessible. Its easier to teach and learn, and more people will
get it right.  There will be fewer beginners made to feel hopelessly
inadequate, and fewer advanced dancers (like Andy) becomming frustrated by
the mistakes of others in their set which prevent them from doing the dance
as they know it should be done.  More people will have more fun. 
    
There are a few slight differences in pattern between the two dances, which
help to make it easier, but the primary difference is that Sharp's version
is for a 3-couple set, and Colin's a 5-couple set.  There is more
repetition in the 5 couple version, giving everyone a better chance to
learn each section and dance it correctly. 

This is particularly true of the progression (triple minor, double
progression) in the second figure-- always the hardest part to get a group
dancing correctly in the Sharp version because the parts are so different
for the three couples that it feels like doing three different figures.
(There are also some extra curlicues in the Sharp version that I leave in
for performance, but which make it much harder to avoid traffic accidents
for recreational dancers). With three couples, each couple gets to dance
the progression only once from each position and has no opportunity to see
what the other couples are doing to learn the other parts.  With 5 couples,
each couple gets to dance the progression two times from each position,
twice in a row as actives. Its the longed for second chance that you DON"T
get having messed up that part in the SHarp version.  The two couples that
stand out can watch the part they are going to dance next and learn it
visually.  Its a whole lot easier.    

The first year we had the Seattle ball at Temple De Hirsh, the biggest hall
in our town, I programmed Step Stately and a few other space-hungry dances
that we never get to do at the tiny Friend's Center where we hold the
regular Friday dances. I chose Colin's version as the one most likely to
succeed.  I danced it with an experienced dancer atthe top of a mostly
beginning set at the workshop, and once we'd done the first figure a couple
of times, the other couples knew it well enough to be active without any
help from us.  At the ball itself I danced it with a Canadian woman who had
been to only one English dance in her life before registering for our ball.
 I was able to lead her through the dance without saying a word to her, and
she made no mistakes.  I don't think beginners could have done the three
couple version so sucessfully.   

Andy complains about the lines of ten.  No, there isn't room for seven
lines of ten crammed in side by side in a row across Temple de Hirsh.  The
caller did suggest, several times, that people stagger the lines to avoid
the crunch.  That way the line of ten in the next set overlaps yours set in
front or in back and everyone has room.  There will be even more room in
Portland, which has a hall of 9000 square feet for the Nov. ball. 

A plea-- Nan are you listening?  (Colin, you don't even want to know about
this!)  Twice that I've danced it, the caller has suggested starting the
progression in figure 1 early in order to get through it in time.  (That
is, starting in the middle of the half-figure 8 music, and crossing the
phrase on the rights and lefts)  I shudder. I scream.  I hate dancing off
the music. It is confusing to start early, since there is no musical cue
that would make all four people start in the same place. And it is
unesthetic.  It has the same effect as having the violin start a few
measures early in order to get all the notes in.  The dance and music are
phrased, metrical, and fit together.  The figure is a modified half rights
and lefts in 8 beats, and is perfectly do-able in that time.   Please,
everybody, dance it to the music! Please, callers, don't even MENTION
ignoring the phrases--its a non-option.  If people know where they are
supposed to end the figure (proper and progressed) they can EASILY get
there in time.  

And finally, Playford says the dance is for 3,5,7 or 9 couples.   I can't
picture it working for more than 5.  One reason is that even if you had
room for lines of 14 or 18 across the hall in the intro, you can't form
them in the 8 beats allotted.  Another is that (if I've figured this out
correctly) there is a couple standing out in the MIDDLE of the set every
third round in the second figure, and I suspect the progression would tend
to get messed up with this non-traditional situation.  And finally the tune
is an A tune, repeated 11 or 12 times for the 3 couple set, 22 times for a
5 couple set and a zillion times for a 7 or 9 couple set.  Musically
boring, even with a change tune.  Has anyone ever tried it for 7 couples,
and if so, how did it work?  

Victoria Bestock

  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:28:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 17:28:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0.11b3137a.253b9988-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 10/16/99 1:37:38 PM, mls-AT-
panix.com writes:

<< can we now call this exchange a fait accompli? >>

(I can't believe I'm writing this) Sharon, didn't you mean a
feta compli?

Judy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:35:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 14:36:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renn Dance Again! (Cambridge, MA)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991017213600.18773.rocketmail-AT-
web2102.mail.yahoo.com>
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Mike,

Could you amplify on the Fourth Tuesday Renn Dance for the
newsletter?

Lyrl



=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 20:23:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 23:25:23 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renn Dance Again! (Cambridge, MA)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910180323.XAA13003-AT-
chmls05.mediaone.net>
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Yah, sure.  I'm not sure what I can say that I haven't said previously, at
least, not without thinking a bit.  I also still owe you the second half of that
two part article on vintage dance, unless you've been getting letters saying "no
more vintage!  no more vintage!"

I have not heard from Margaret.  I left two messages on what I hope was her
machine.

On 10/17/99 at 2:36 PM, the most glorious and wonderful Lyrl Ahern
<lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> inscribed in stone the following:

> Mike,
> 
> Could you amplify on the Fourth Tuesday Renn Dance for the
> newsletter?
> 
> Lyrl
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 21:02:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 04:02:25 +0000 (GMT)
From: Andrew Peterson <adpete-AT-
jps.net>
Subject: Re: Step Stately
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <380a9bd1.3c6e.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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  The first time I remember seeing Step Stately was at a CDSS Hudson Guild Farm
weekend *many* years ago. It was at a celebration of May Gadd's birthday, I
think it was her 80th, Lyrl thinks 82nd. I was enchanted and remember thinking
"I want to learn that dance someday." 
  Years later, when I was dancing with Reel Nutmeg in Connecticut, not only
did I learn it, but at that time any six dancers in the group could go out and
do it without any discussion, just start the music. 
  From the first time I saw it, I have *never* considered it a beginners dance.
Maybe Colin's interpretation does make it more accessible to dancers not familiar
with it, but I still wouldn't put it on a program for a group of mostly new
dancers.
  The other day I had a vision of breaking the lines of ten into two lines of
six and four, the four behind the six. There wouldn't be the space problem and
the timing would fit the music better. I felt that the line of ten didn't fit
very well. I haven't quite worked it out.
  The "extraneous curlicues" and changing patterns are, in my opinion, what
*makes* the dance.

Andy in Portland

Victoria Bestock wrote:
>Like Andy, I like the version of Step Stately that I first >learned, (the 3
couple version reconstructed by Sharp). It >makes a showy performance piece,
and I've taught it to Nonesuch >and to two groups of high school performers.
 The constantly >changing patterns are more interesting to watch than the same
>patterns repeated more often.  The extraneous curlicues that >Colin eliminated
look good, and performing groups have all the >time in the world to learn and
perfect them.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:32:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 22:32:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Portland Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JH99NCDI9U935EU8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Will Linden quoted Terence Gaffney asking:
 
>  What's the "Molly Andrew"?

and speculated

>  A piece of mumpsimus for "Merry Andrew"?

Nope, although I can see why you'd think so.  It's a Sicilian circle waltz
written by Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett (of the Heather and the Rose
Society; they run a Monday-night English and Scottish class in Ashland, OR
using geographically-based calling) to a gorgeous tune called (I think)
"Saturday Night Waltz" by a friend of theirs whose name I disremember now.

It's called "The Molly Andrew" because it was written for the wedding of two
friends of theirs, Molly and Andrew, and because that let them play on the
name "The Merry Andrew."

Anyway, it's a very satisfying swoopy looping waltz country dance, probably
chosen not just because it's a good dance but because the new hall for is big
enough to support a Sicilian circle for as many people as are likely to attend.

I suspect you didn't get an answer earlier because most of the list subscribers
who know the answer were at the BACDS Fall Weekend, from which I have just
returned, footsore and braindead but very happy from dancing to the
Contrabandits and (Bare Necessities - Peter Barnes + Fred Nussbaum on cello.)

-- Alan




===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 06:37:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:39:27 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Renn Dance Again! (Cambridge, MA)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910181337.JAA18228-AT-
chmls05.mediaone.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well, I have no idea how this got out to the list.  My apologies, everyone.

--Mike

On 10/17/99 at 11:25 PM, the most glorious and wonderful Michael Bergman
<eclectic-AT-
MIT.EDU> inscribed in stone the following:

> Yah, sure.  I'm not sure what I can say that I haven't said previously, at
> least, not without thinking a bit.  I also still owe you the second half of
that
> two part article on vintage dance, unless you've been getting letters saying
"no
> more vintage!  no more vintage!"
> 
> I have not heard from Margaret.  I left two messages on what I hope was her
> machine.
> 
> On 10/17/99 at 2:36 PM, the most glorious and wonderful Lyrl Ahern
> <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> inscribed in stone the following:
> 
> > Mike,
> > 
> > Could you amplify on the Fourth Tuesday Renn Dance for the
> > newsletter?
> > 
> > Lyrl
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > 
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
> 
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:57:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 21:15:27 +0100
From: mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com (Mary Devlin)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Molly Andrew
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b03b4312c7a70fc-AT-
[216.26.2.197]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The tune for "The Molly Andrew" by Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett,
"Saturday Night Waltz", is by Dave Wiesler.  It's a terrific tune!  Great
dance!!

Mary Devlin


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 02:56:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 02:54:23 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
iname.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: new web address for ECD in Santa Barbara
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "S.B. Friends of English Dance" <sbfed-AT-
egroups.com>
Message-ID: <v04210103b431eefd5c72-AT-
[24.8.188.38]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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The web page for the Santa Barbara Friends of English Dance, a partially-owned subsidiary of the Santa Barbara CDS, has a new home at:

	http://www.sbcds.org/ecd/

No more of those tildes which look fine in Spanish but not in URLs!

--
garyes-AT-
iname.com   Gary D. "will he make it to SBCC by 11?" Shapiro
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:29:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:29:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Molly Andrew
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910190927460.698-100000-AT-
stargate.gpcc.itd.umich.edu>
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On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Mary Devlin wrote:

> The tune for "The Molly Andrew" by Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett,
> "Saturday Night Waltz", is by Dave Wiesler.  It's a terrific tune!  Great
> dance!!

Mary, is it published, & if so, where?

Eric Arnold 
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:44:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:44:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0.e4418461.253dcfa8-AT-
aol.com>
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I've had some recent off list requests for the 13th Annual Fried-for-All 
date. It will be the weekend of April 28-30. This conflicts neither with 
NEFFA (April 14-16) nor Easter (April 23.) The event, as always, takes place 
in the Village of Lenox MA in the Berkshires. The cost is around 70. So is 
number of participants. The outside temperature will probably not reach that 
high. 

Music will be by MGM (Margaret Ann Martin, Gene Murrow, Mary Lea.)

As always, the weekend workshop is advertised as being for "Experienced 
English Dancers." What exactly does this mean? I've resisted getting tangled 
in that thread, but this, at least, is what I think it means as applied to 
THIS PARTICULAR EVENT:

Thorough familiarity with traditional & classical English dance style, 
figures, patterns & terminology & the number of years' experience necessary 
to have acquired that familiarity. Obviously, each dancer learns differently: 
some dancers, after having danced weekly for a year or 2 might be as advanced 
as some who've danced monthly for 20 years. Some will never reach the point 
of complete comfort with the language of English dance. 

Some will ask (in this age of political correctness & Democratic Ideals) why 
restrict admission at all? The reason for this is simple: Not including the 2 
evening dance parties, the weekend consists of 3 workshops totalling 8 hours. 
Now, some of Fried's dances make Step Stately seem like London Bridge is 
Falling Down. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you have to 
teach crossover heys & draw poussettes to beginning dancers, there won't be 
enough time to learn, let alone DANCE, Fried's dances. If you don't know 
"Back to Back" how quickly can you learn "Face en Face?" 

Got Flack?

Love, Judy




    

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:04:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 18:03:58 -0700
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
geocities.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: a Health to all honest men (?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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pop.mail.yahoo.com>
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Hallo.
sorting through old notes, I found the instructions for a dance titled:
"a Health to all honest men". It looks easy and fun, ideal for our sessions;
unfortunately there is no indication of a source for the music. It is not in
Barnes. Anyone out there who can shed some light?
Thank you very much. Giovanni De Amici

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:53:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:54:10 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910200353.XAA08105-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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Uh oh.  So, when is the NY Ball?

> I've had some recent off list requests for the 13th Annual Fried-for-All
> date. It will be the weekend of April 28-30. This conflicts neither with
> NEFFA (April 14-16) nor Easter (April 23.) The event, as always, takes
> place in the Village of Lenox MA in the Berkshires. The cost is around 70.
> So is number of participants. The outside temperature will probably not
> reach that high. 


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:00:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:15:58 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: a Health to all honest men (?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991020001254.00b553c0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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Giovanni--
A Health to All Honest Men can be found in Fried's collection Choice
Morsels.  It's also been recorded on the Assembly Players CD A Walsh Ball.
Fun dance!
Sharon


At 06:03 PM 10/19/99 -0700, South Bay English Country Dance wrote:
>Hallo.
>sorting through old notes, I found the instructions for a dance titled:
>"a Health to all honest men". It looks easy and fun, ideal for our sessions;
>unfortunately there is no indication of a source for the music. It is not in
>Barnes. Anyone out there who can shed some light?
>Thank you very much. Giovanni De Amici
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:03:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991020040322.71288.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
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Rich Galloway wrote:

>Uh oh.  So, when is the NY Ball?

April 8. Mark your calendar.

Margherita Davis


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 21:04:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 00:18:39 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19991020001615.00bcaf10-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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April 8th.  Suzanne just got the contract from Congregation Beth Elohim, so
we're set.
Looking forward to seeing you _lots_ of places!
Sharon Green

At 11:54 PM 10/19/99 +0000, Rich Galloway wrote:
>Uh oh.  So, when is the NY Ball?
>
>> I've had some recent off list requests for the 13th Annual Fried-for-All
>> date. It will be the weekend of April 28-30. This conflicts neither with
>> NEFFA (April 14-16) nor Easter (April 23.) The event, as always, takes
>> place in the Village of Lenox MA in the Berkshires. The cost is around 70.
>> So is number of participants. The outside temperature will probably not
>> reach that high. 
>
>
>====================================================
>Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
>====================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:09:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 23:07:23 -0600
From: William DeRagon <wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Molly Andrew
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, eba-AT-
umich.edu
Message-ID: <19991019.230727.-955565.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
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On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
writes:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 1999, Mary Devlin wrote:
> > The tune for "The Molly Andrew" by Brooke Friendly and Chris Sackett,
> > "Saturday Night Waltz", is by Dave Wiesler.  It's a terrific tune! 
Great
> > dance!!
> 
> Mary, is it published, & if so, where?
> 
> Eric Arnold 
>  Ann Arbor

Dave Wiesler's tune "Saturday Morning Waltz" (which he states in his
notes is the tune used for "The Molly Andrew") is published in his book
"DaveTunes."  The book contains nearly 150 "original tunes in the folk
dance tradition" and may be ordered from him at 1008 Glendale Road,
Charlottesville, VA 22901-4014 ($20).

I heard Dave for the first time at Pinewoods English-American Week this
year and was very impressed with his piano work and compositions.

William DeRagon
Allbuquerque, NM
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 03:29:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 12:31:49 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: a Health to all honest men (?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <380DA824.D119214-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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References: <2.2.32.19991020010358.009100d8-AT-
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A Health to all honest men, as interpreted by Fried de Metz, is a fine
dance! I want to point out that "John the Madman" (Fallibroome
Collection) has word by word the same choreography, but set to a
different tune, which I prefer.

So now I use Fried's choreography to another tune!


Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:40:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 07:40:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Orly Krasner <okrasner-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NY Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19991020144006.34546.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
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Hi, All--
  The New York ball is scheduled for Saturday, April 8.  It's gonna be a 
BUSY month. . . .
See you there.
--Orly Krasner

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:14:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 11:15:36 -0800
From: Laurie Andres <lcandres-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: a Health to all honest men (?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <380E14D6.E08BB495-AT-
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References: <2.2.32.19991020010358.009100d8-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com> <380DA824.D119214-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>

Which begs the question - what tune?

Laurie Andres

Philippe Callens wrote:

> A Health to all honest men, as interpreted by Fried de Metz, is a fine
> dance! I want to point out that "John the Madman" (Fallibroome
> Collection) has word by word the same choreography, but set to a
> different tune, which I prefer.
>
> So now I use Fried's choreography to another tune!
>
> Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 14:37:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 17:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Message-ID: <0.421d7d7c.253f8ff7-AT-
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Judy wrote:

 >... the 13th Annual Fried-for-All ... will be the weekend of
 >April 28-30. This conflicts neither with NEFFA (April 14-16) nor
 >Easter (April 23.) 
 >
 >...
 >
 >Got Flack?

It *does* conflict, however, with the WMHT Public TV fundraising
auction, which my wife Julie (Raskin) and I devote a great deal of
time to every year. I know this is nobody's problem but ours. I
guess (once again) we will have to do most of what we do to help
run the Fried-for-All in advance.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 20:41:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 23:41:09 -0400
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Satisfaction Survey Form: Contructive Criticisms Sought
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991020181650.00975390-AT-
209.183.254.10>
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--Boundary_(ID_Di5SydrsuzwG5pkGAStFCw)
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Organizers of the FSGW's weekly English country dance have developed a 
critique form, reproduced in part below.  We seek suggestions for 
improvement of the form.  Kindly reply directly to me unless you feel your 
comment would be useful to our listserv group at large.  Working at 
volunteer-full-speed, if the form is significantly improved, I'll re-post 
it to the listserv.  I can also make the form available to interested 
parties as a WordPerfect file and/or as a .pdf file to view or print with 
Adobe's Acrobat.

The form includes several fill-in-the-blank lines that are represented by 
white space herein.  I take full credit for all errors, tipos, etc.

Cheers,

/Roger W. Broseus
roger-AT-
just.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[graphic/logo]      The Folklore Society of Greater Washington

English Country Dance Survey

Organizers of the FSGW weekly English Country Dance (ECD) would like to 
hear from dancers.  Please share your ideas, what you like and constructive 
criticisms about the dance to the end of making the experience more 
enjoyable for all concerned.

Organizers see the weekly series as a social dance, as opposed to a series 
devoted primarily to teaching through a series of classes.  However, due to 
the nature of ECD, some teaching is necessary to introduce new formations, 
dances, and to move dancers beyond the raw, beginner stage.  Do you feel 
that the amount of time devoted to instruction is: [ ] about right.  [ ] 
too much.  [ ] not enough.  If you checked one of the last two boxes, 
please elaborate, describing how to improve the dance experience.


What do you most like about FSGW's EC dances?


What do you least like about the dances? How can they be improved?


Do you have any suggestions for callers?  Any comments about what makes a 
particular caller more or less effective.


Do you have any suggestions for musicians?  Any comments about what makes 
the music more or less enjoyable?


Would you like to help in any way by volunteering on a regular or 
occasional basis?  What do you wish to do?


Are you aware of any alternate locations for dance, other than the usual 
ones at which FSGW events are conducted?  (Note that the budget for hall 
rentals is small.)


Basic lessons in English Country Dance: Have you attended one or more of 
the free, monthly sessions conducted on the second Wednesday of each 
month?  [ ] Attended one session.  [ ] Attended more than one.  Did you 
find the sessions useful?  How could they be
improved?


Washington Spring Ball: more difficult dances have been prompted at the 
last two balls.  Does this: [ ] detract    [ ] add to enjoyment?
         Gender Balancing: [ ] in favor /  [ ] not in favor of gender 
balancing.  Why?


Other comments?  What question(s) are missing from this survey?


Your Name (optional):_______________________ Caller: _______________ Date: 
__________ Gender: [ ] female    [ ] male

Please deposit in money collection box. Comments may also be sent to 
English-AT-
fsgw.org.  Requests to remain anonymous will be respected.

--Boundary_(ID_Di5SydrsuzwG5pkGAStFCw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<html>
<font size=2>Organizers of the FSGW's weekly English country dance have
developed a critique form, reproduced in part below.&nbsp; We seek
suggestions for improvement of the form.&nbsp; Kindly reply directly to
me unless you feel your comment would be useful to our listserv group at
large.&nbsp; Working at volunteer-full-speed, if the form is
significantly improved, I'll re-post it to the listserv.&nbsp; I can also
make the form available to interested parties as a WordPerfect file
and/or as a .pdf file to view or print with Adobe's Acrobat.<br>
<br>
The form includes several fill-in-the-blank lines that are represented by
white space herein.&nbsp; I take full credit for all errors, tipos,
etc.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
/Roger W. Broseus<br>
roger-AT-
just.net<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
[graphic/logo]&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Folklore Society of
Greater Washington<br>
<br>
<b><div align="center">
English Country Dance Survey<br>
<br>
</b></div>
Organizers of the FSGW weekly English Country Dance (ECD) would like to
hear from dancers.&nbsp; Please share your ideas, what you like and
constructive criticisms about the dance to the end of making the
experience more enjoyable for all concerned.<br>
<br>
Organizers see the weekly series as a <i>social dance</i>, as opposed to
a series devoted primarily to teaching through a series of classes.&nbsp;
However, due to the nature of ECD, some teaching is necessary to
introduce new formations, dances, and to move dancers beyond the raw,
beginner stage.&nbsp; Do you feel that the amount of time devoted to
instruction is: [ ] about right.&nbsp; [ ] too much.&nbsp; [ ] not
enough.&nbsp; If you checked one of the last two boxes, please elaborate,
describing how to improve the dance experience.<br>
<br>
<br>
What do you most like about FSGW’s EC dances?&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
What do you least like about the dances? How can they be improved? <br>
<br>
<br>
Do you have any suggestions for callers?&nbsp; Any comments about what
makes a particular caller more or less effective.&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
Do you have any suggestions for musicians?&nbsp; Any comments about what
makes the music more or less enjoyable?&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
Would you like to help in any way by volunteering on a regular or
occasional basis?&nbsp; What do you wish to do?&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
Are you aware of any alternate locations for dance, other than the usual
ones at which FSGW events are conducted?&nbsp; (Note that the budget for
hall rentals is small.)&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
Basic lessons in English Country Dance: Have you attended one or more of
the free, monthly sessions conducted on the second Wednesday of each
month?&nbsp; [ ] Attended one session.&nbsp; [ ] Attended more than
one.&nbsp; Did you find the sessions useful?&nbsp; How could they be
<br>
improved?<br>
<br>
<br>
Washington Spring Ball: more difficult dances have been prompted at the
last two balls.&nbsp; Does this: [ ] detract&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [ ] add to
enjoyment?<br>
<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>Gender
Balancing: [ ] in favor /&nbsp; [ ] not in favor of gender
balancing.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Other comments?&nbsp; What question(s) are missing from this 
survey?<br>
<br>
<br>
Your Name (optional):_______________________ Caller: _______________
Date: __________ Gender: [ ] female&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; [ ] male<br>
<br>
Please deposit in money collection box. Comments may also be sent to
English-AT-
fsgw.org.&nbsp; Requests to remain anonymous will be
respected.</font></html>

--Boundary_(ID_Di5SydrsuzwG5pkGAStFCw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 00:27:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 09:29:51 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: a Health to all honest men (?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <380ECEFF.6A100D2B-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <2.2.32.19991020010358.009100d8-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com> <380DA824.D119214-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be> <380E14D6.E08BB495-AT-
earthlink.net>



Laurie Andres wrote:

> Which begs the question - what tune?

Well, the tune is John the Madman, also the name of the dance.


Philippe

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 06:47:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:47:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fwd: Fried-for-All 2000
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0.1847b0b2.2541c4e6-AT-
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In a message dated 10/20/99 5:36:55 PM, DavBarnert writes:

<< It *does* conflict, however, with the WMHT Public TV fundraising
auction, which my wife Julie (Raskin) and I devote a great deal of
time to every year. >>

David & Julie, I DO feel awful about that. But now that I have everyone's 
attention I'd like to take this opportunity to embarrass you both publicly by 
declaring that the weekend could never happen without your advance good humor 
& helpfulness, David (the keeper-of-the-list) & Julie (the 
accountant-business manager-without-peer.) 

Judy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:01:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 00:10:12 +0100
From: Douglas Goss <douglas-AT-
goss89.freeserve.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.
To: Folkie list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000201bf1cca$0bd8eac0$49b2883e-AT-
e7p5o4>
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Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire need of a lively folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly ceilidh in Filton, which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent club to go to.  Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great *U*S*A* ? (anyone who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand about the stars!)

look forward to hearing from anyone!  Anna Goss :-)



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<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly 
new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire need of a lively folk dance club to join. 
We've been to the ?quarterly ceilidh in Filton, which was really nice, but I'd 
love a more frequent club to go to.&nbsp; Can anyone out there help, or are you 
all in the great *U*S*A* ? (anyone who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will 
understand about the stars!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2>look forward to hearing from 
anyone!&nbsp; Anna Goss :-)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_uGunfZZeZW7a4n/zJAZHDA)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 14:13:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:28:46 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Alan Davies runs a Playford group in Bristol and knows much about the local ECD
scene.  I'll send you his email separately--if he's not off running dance tours
in Germany or Majorca, I'm sure he'll be happy to help.
Sharon Green

At 12:10 AM 10/22/99 +0100, Douglas Goss wrote: 
>
> Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire need
> of a lively folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly ceilidh in
> Filton, which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent club to go to. 
> Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great *U*S*A* ? (anyone who
> happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand about the stars!)
>  
> look forward to hearing from anyone!  Anna Goss :-)
>  
>  



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<html>
Alan Davies runs a Playford group in Bristol and knows much about the
local ECD scene.&nbsp; I'll send you his email separately--if he's not
off running dance tours in Germany or Majorca, I'm sure he'll be happy to
help.<br>
Sharon Green<br>
<br>
At 12:10 AM 10/22/99 +0100, Douglas Goss wrote: <br>
<font face="arial" size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>Hi there, Douglas
and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire need of a lively
folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly ceilidh in Filton,
which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent club to go to.&nbsp;
Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great *U*S*A* ? (anyone
who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand about the
stars!)</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
<font face="arial" size=2>look forward to hearing from anyone!&nbsp; Anna
Goss :-)</font><br>
&nbsp;<br>
&nbsp;</blockquote><br>
</html>

--Boundary_(ID_VOO7T0QzWOxP/C+Ftk7RhQ)--
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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 17:29:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.
To: Folkie list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910221724090.1665-100000-AT-
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On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Douglas Goss wrote:

> Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire need of a lively folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly ceilidh in Filton, which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent club to go to.  Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great *U*S*A* ? (anyone who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand about the stars!)
> 
> look forward to hearing from anyone!  Anna Goss :-)

You might also try posting your request to English Ceilidh mail group at 

	eceilidh-AT-
netservs.com

They're almost entirely Brits and post a lot of announcements about
English ceilidh (ec) events in the UK.  You'll have to join the list to
get the postings, but I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you how to do
that.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor (Michigan, *U*S*A*)


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Date: Sat, 23 Oct 1999 15:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: ruthemmi-AT-
freenet.toronto.on.ca (Themmis Anno)
Subject: Turn of the Century Ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
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I have just heard, by phone, the following announcement.
I will post further details when I have the printed version:
Woodstock is 50km east of London or 150km west of Toronto.

---------------------------------


A Turn of the Century Ball will be held on
Sat. NOV 13, 1999, 8pm
in Woodstock Ontario

Music by Stephen Fuller
Dance Mistress: Sheila Scott

Pre-Ball workshop 2-5pm

Period costume encouraged but not mandatory.

----------------------------------



================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 23:09:33 +0100
From: Derek Andow <Andow-AT-
btinternet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.
To: ECD-AT-
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There is quite a bit going on in the Bristol Area,  it depends what you want
to take part in.  A quick run down of areas (please excuse any omissions but
it's late,  and I'm in between planes and an early start to a family
holiday):

Cotswold Morris
NW Morris
Border Morris
Display Groups (Folk Dance)
Display Groups (Folk,  Morris,  Sword, Clog)
Scottish Dance
International Folk Dance (* I think*)
Playford
 etc etc.

Where to point you first depends upon what you are looking for.
Unfortunately,  the forthcoming Bristol Playford Ball is "sold out" with a
waiting list for ticket returns the last time I heard.  I can give you the
address for the the mailing list for next year [Royal Mail tho'  not email
!].

Regards,
Derek

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: Folkie list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.


>
>
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999, Douglas Goss wrote:
>
> > Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire
need of a lively folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly
ceilidh in Filton, which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent club
to go to.  Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great *U*S*A* ?
(anyone who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand about the
stars!)
> >
> > look forward to hearing from anyone!  Anna Goss :-)
>
> You might also try posting your request to English Ceilidh mail group at
>
> eceilidh-AT-
netservs.com
>
> They're almost entirely Brits and post a lot of announcements about
> English ceilidh (ec) events in the UK.  You'll have to join the list to
> get the postings, but I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you how to do
> that.
>
> Eric Arnold
>  Ann Arbor (Michigan, *U*S*A*)
>
>
>

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 19:40:29 -0400
From: Themmis Anno <ruthemmi-AT-
interlog.com>
Subject: Turn of the Century Ball
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, vintage-dance-AT-
world.std.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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     The United Way
            and
The Woodstock Museum
           Present
A "TURN OF THE CENTURY" Ball
on Saturday, November 13, 1999, 8pm
       In the 1899 Grand Hall
466 Dundas St.,  Woodstock, Ontario

Music by Stephen Fuller and " Back-up and Push"
Dance Calling by Sheila Scott

Celebrate the Turn of the Century
    with an evening from 1899.

Ticket includes:
Class in 19th Century Dance 2:00-4:00pm
Doors open 7:00pm
Dance 8:00pm- 12:30am
Country Buffet: 10:00pm

Costume Dress optional

Tickets: $25 per person
available at:
Woodstock Museum, 466 Dundas St.,  519-537-8411
and at
Woodstock United Way, 943 Dundas St.,  519-539-3851

For more information call: 519-537-8411

---------------------------------------------------------

NB  Woodstock is located 50 km east of London or 150 km west
of Toronto.

Submitted by Themmis Anno

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 01:33:54 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance descriptions
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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pavilion>
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I'm trying to find dance descriptions for: 

American Husband
Homecoming
Jack's Health
Astonished Archeologist
Salutation

Thanks,
Dianna

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:03:37 +0000
From: Mike Courthold <M.J.D.Courthold-AT-
RL.AC.UK>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Folk dancing near Bristol, UK.
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991026100337.01e2ab0c-AT-
sirius.asd1.rl.ac.uk>
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At 00:10 22/10/99 +0100, you wrote:
>Hi there, Douglas and I are fairly new to Bristol (UK) and I'm in dire
>need of a lively folk dance club to join. We've been to the ?quarterly
>ceilidh in Filton, which was really nice, but I'd love a more frequent
>club to go to.  Can anyone out there help, or are you all in the great
>*U*S*A* ? (anyone who happens to have read Hyman Kaplan will understand
>about the stars!)
> 
>look forward to hearing from anyone!  Anna Goss :-)
> 

   Contact Dave Leverton, 0117-9249894, and he will put you in touch with
all that is going on in and around Bristol. He can also supply you with
regular copies of the Avon Diary, which lists dance and song events, and
tell you how to get hold of the Wiltshire Folk Diary (or whatever it's
called). By the way, Dave organises the Bristol Ceilidhs, so you have
probably already met him!
   There is an excellant dance club at Pucklechurch Village Hall on 2nd &
4th Tuesdays each month, which attracts the very best callers from a wide
area. Starts at 8pm.
   Don't forget to put the Chippenham Folk Festival in your diary for next
year. It takes place over the Bank Holiday weekend at the end of May, and is
a 4-day event. For detailed information contact
         chippfolk-AT-
aol.com
      or http://members.aol.com/chippfolk/index.html

I hope all that helps,

Mike Courthold. (Caller & dancer, Hungerford, Berkshire)
                          wwWWww
                            oo
-----------------------ooO-(__)-Ooo-------------------------------------
Mike Courthold                          Phone:  (+44)|(0) 1235 446462
Bldg R65, Rm 1.11                       Mobile: (+44)|(0) 0370 652507
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory          Fax:    (+44)|(0) 1235 446863
Chilton, Didcot, Oxon., OX11 0QX, UK    Email:  M.J.D.Courthold-AT-
rl.ac.uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:21:55 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
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Subject: Re: Dance descriptions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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pavilion>

Hi, Diana:

The American Husband (as you know) is a Pat Shaw dance and it is in "The
Naked Truth," published in 1986 by Fried de Metz Herman. I do have it,
but apologize for not having the time to transcribe it for you.

However, here is:
SALUTATION
DUPLE MINOR LONGWAYS
J. Walsh Compleat  1706
A1   The men lead through the two women, cast back to places, go back to
back right shoulders on the sides and turn with both hands.
A2   The two women repeat the above.
B1   1st corners cross, slowly as in “Hole in the Wall,” 2nd corners
repeat; circle hands four left half way and 1st couple cast.
B2   1st couple lead through next 2nd couple, cast back; and dance a hey
four changes with hands with original 2nd couple, partners facing to
start.

I do not know of the other dances.

Regards, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia




> I'm trying to find dance descriptions for:
>
> American Husband
> Homecoming
> Jack's Health
> Astonished Archeologist
> Salutation
>
> Thanks,
> Dianna
>
> Dianna L. Shipman
> diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
> Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
> PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
> Houston, TX 77019-4946
> web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
> phone: 713-522-1212



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 06:36:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:39:23 -0400
From: John Bremer <Jbremer-AT-
together.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
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As we all know, it was on Boxing Day (26 December) 1899 that the revival 
of English folk music--both dance and song--began when Cecil Sharp heard 
and saw the Headington Quarry side led by William Kimber.

To commemorate the Centenary I have prepared a short history of Sharp. 
It consists of 32 pages of text and 3 of illustrations, on 8 1/2 by 11, 
spiral bound with stiff covers. It is not meant as a commercial venture, 
and to cover costs the price is $10, which includes postage.

If anyone is interested, please send a check (or cheque)for $10 per copy 
to me  John Bremer, P.O.Box 518, Ludlow, VT 05149. The print run was 
limited and the copies are relatively few, but I cannot foretell the 
interest.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:14:02 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 07:13:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Dianna, et al --

Here's the notation I have for Jack's Health.  If you go back through the 
ECD archive you may find an interesting discussion of how "Bolt the Door"
became the tune for the dance -- it appears to have been Jim Morrison's idea.

Generalizing from too small a sample size, it appears that East Coast and West
Coast (of the US) tempi differ on this dance.  Out here, it's played at nearly
contra speeds, and is a really zippy, joy-of-motion kind of dance, at least 
for the 1s.  On Sunday I did this dance to 3/4 of Bare Necessities (the band,
not the tune - although the tune is in 3/4 time) and the tempo they went with
gave the dance a really different, and rather more elegant feeling.  I love
the faster version, but it doesn't really give you time to flower out on the
turn single.  

By the way, I'm happy to see notation of dances by people who've been dead 
a hundred years on this list, but don't want to see stuff by living authors
without their permission, or still-copyrighted material by dead authors
without the permission of the people holding the rights.  I suspect that
"The American Husband" falls into the latter category.  (Excerpts from 
such dances for purposes as "what does this description of the B2 mean?"
are, I think, okay.)

The question of whether you should get permission from living
reconstructors of old dances to post their versions is a murky one.  It may
depend on how much rebuilding they did - as Colin Hume in his class at
Mendocino pointed out, the Wright's version of "Alterations" is
considerably reworked from the original.  (He then did a transliteration of
the original text in modern language and discussed why dancers wouldn't
enjoy it as it stood.)

But I digress.  Here's the notation for this great dance.  Enjoy!


JACK'S HEALTH (1726)
(Neal or CD&S 5)
Duple minor longways - Music in Barnes ("Bolt the Door" - not title tune)

A: 1s pull by, cast, go below 2s (who move up), turn two hands 1x, 
   open facing up improper.

B: 1s back to back with 2s, fall back with 2s, set R&L, come forward,
   then turn single (cloverleaf is nice).

   Four changes of rights and lefts, with hands.

   Two hand turn partner, finish proper.

NOTE: Fried Herman hates "pull by", having been damaged once by an 
overenthusiastic puller by.  But it's a really nice move for the ones,
especially to flow out of the the two-hand turn that finishes the previous
round of the dance.  How nice seems to depend partly on the tempo.


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 08:27:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:42:38 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance descriptions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.1.19991026112633.00b63630-AT-
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American Husband can be found in Pat Shaw's Pinewoods [available from CDSS]
as well as in The Naked Truth [out of print].
Homecoming is in Gary Roodman's latest book, Multiple Calculated Figures
[available from CDSS, or email Gary, <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu>].
The Astonished Archaeologist is in Philippe Callens' new book Continental
Capers, which I hope is available from CDSS.  You can also email him,
<Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>.

Since Philippe & Gary both have posted to the list previously, I figure
it's okay for me to remind folks of their email addresses this way.
Philippe, Gary, Alan, I hope that's cool.

Sharon Green (unclear re netiquette but reasonably clear on choreographers'
rights)


At 01:33 AM 10/26/99 -0500, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>I'm trying to find dance descriptions for: 
>
>American Husband
>Homecoming
>Jack's Health
>Astonished Archeologist
>Salutation
>
>Thanks,
>Dianna
>
>Dianna L. Shipman
>diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
>Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
>PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
>Houston, TX 77019-4946
>web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
>phone: 713-522-1212
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:44:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 09:52:34 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health"
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991026095234.007b34e0-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Alan gives this description of Jack's Health and lists Neal as a source,
but Neal's description is different from this one.  Here's the one Alan
described, and its the way we generally dance it:

>JACK'S HEALTH (1726)
>(Neal or CD&S 5)
>Duple minor longways - Music in Barnes ("Bolt the Door" - not title tune)
>
>A: 1s pull by, cast, go below 2s (who move up), turn two hands 1x, 
>   open facing up improper.
>
>B: 1s back to back with 2s, fall back with 2s, set R&L, come forward,
>   then turn single (cloverleaf is nice).
>
>   Four changes of rights and lefts, with hands.
>
>   Two hand turn partner, finish proper.

And here is Neal:

A1  1st cu cross, go below, and two hand turn 1 1/2

A2  Back to back neighbors.  Two hand turn neighbors.

B1  Lead out, turn and lead back.  Cross over and face partner, and turn
single.

B2  Rights and lefts twice, which is generally interpreted to mean 4 changes.

Alan also says "Bare Necessities (the band, not the tune, although the tune
is in 3/4 time)"  This is gramatically fuzzy, sounding as though Jack's
Health is in 3/4 time.  It isn't. The tune "Bare Necessities" is in 3/4
time.  Bare Necessities, (the band) is in 6/8 when playing "Jack's Health."

Victoria Bestock   

  


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:59:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:59:39 +0000 (GMT)
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3815ec0b.7fc1.0-AT-
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I have always been under the impression that Sharp was already well established
as a collector of English folk song before his Boxing Day encounter with the
Headington Morris side. It was this encounter that started him collecting Morris
dances. I've not been certain exactly when he began his interpretations of Playford
or collecting of Country dances.

Andy in Portland


>As we all know, it was on Boxing Day (26 December) 1899 that the revival 
>of English folk music--both dance and song--began when Cecil Sharp heard 
>and saw the Headington Quarry side led by William Kimber.
>
>To commemorate the Centenary I have prepared a short history of Sharp. 
>It consists of 32 pages of text and 3 of illustrations, on 8 1/2 by 11, 
>spiral bound with stiff covers. It is not meant as a commercial venture, 
>and to cover costs the price is $10, which includes postage.
>
>If anyone is interested, please send a check (or cheque)for $10 per copy 
>to me  John Bremer, P.O.Box 518, Ludlow, VT 05149. The print run was 
>limited and the copies are relatively few, but I cannot foretell the 
>interest.
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:15:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:18:34 -0400
From: John Bremer <Jbremer-AT-
together.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3815F07A.7AA9-AT-
together.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3815ec0b.7fc1.0-AT-
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Andy, you really need this account of Sharp's life. John
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 11:56:06 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:01:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
> I have always been under the impression that Sharp was already well
> established
> as a collector of English folk song before his Boxing Day encounter
> with the
> Headington Morris side. 

And what I want to know is how they could properly hold their hankies
for Morris dancing if they were wearing boxing gloves?

Barbara Ruth

=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 12:42:06 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:42:13 -0400
From: Ridge Kennedy <srkennedy-AT-
email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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> And what I want to know is how they could properly hold their hankies
> for Morris dancing if they were wearing boxing gloves?

The gloves would have, however, protected the knuckles when they set upon
each other with their cudgels.

R.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:41:26 PST
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JHLC0HSLAA9S4ELS-AT-
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Forwarded from "Andy in Portland", adpete-AT-
jps.net
------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	IN%"adpete-AT-
jps.net" 26-OCT-1999 10:52:26.89
To:	IN%"winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU"  "- SSRL Central Computing"
CC:	
Subj:	RE: "Jack's Health" notation


Hi all,

CD&S 5, edited by Jim Morrison, notes that "Jack's Health" appeared in Playford
from the 7th edition (1686) onward. The notation varies somewhat from Alan's
description mainly in the description of where various figures fit with the
music. Jim noted that the interpretation is "largely Pat Shaw's although we
have modified his solution slightly." Jim also notes that the original
description in Playford includes an introduction, "Honour to the Presence, then
your own woman. Lead up all forward and back, that again," which modern
versions omit. Jim doesn't indicate how that would have fit the music or if
there may have been music for the introduction. CD&S 5 includes the original
tune and "Bolt the Door" as an alternative. The original tune in Playford was
in 6/4 time and is converted to 6/8 in Jim's notation. It is printed as it
appears in the 12th edition.

The dance notation as in CD&S 5:

Longways, duple minor

A1   First couple, giving right hands, cross over and go below       second
couple, who move up; first couple two hand turn once      around, ending
improper.


A2   Back to back along the lines (first man with second woman,      first
woman with second man). With this same person, fall       back a double joining
inside hands and set once, right and      left.

B1&2 Forward a double and turn single outward, men to left,          women to
right; four changes of a hey for four, giving          hands, and two hand turn
to place (once around for second       couples and once and a half for first
couples).

Alan had the A2 occuring as part of the B music.

Andy in Portland

>Alan Winston wrote:
>
>Here's the notation I have for Jack's Health.  If you go back >through the
ECD archive you may find an interesting discussion >of how "Bolt the Door" became
the tune for the dance -- it >appears to have been Jim Morrison's idea.
>
>       <<snip>>
>But I digress.  Here's the notation for this great dance.  >Enjoy!
>
>
>JACK'S HEALTH (1726)
>(Neal or CD&S 5)
>Duple minor longways - Music in Barnes ("Bolt the Door" - not title tune)
>
>A: 1s pull by, cast, go below 2s (who move up), turn two hands >1x, 
>   open facing up improper.
>
>B: 1s back to back with 2s, fall back with 2s, set R&L, come >forward,
>   then turn single (cloverleaf is nice).
>
>   Four changes of rights and lefts, with hands.
>
>   Two hand turn partner, finish proper.
>


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 13:57:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:55:20 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v02130504b43bc4286e89-AT-
[155.33.181.244]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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For those who will be in Boston for the Winter holidays or who live within
driving distance of the city, CDS-Boston is sponsoring a celebration of the
Centennial of Sharp's meeting with William Kimber and the
Headington Morris side. The celebration will be on Boxing Day afternoon,
and is being organized by George Fogg. it will include Country Dancing,
Morris Dancing, and English Folk songs collected by Sharp.

As I get more details, I'll pass them along.

Best,
 Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 16:46:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 18:28:00 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <010601bf200c$e54eb420$4ce3490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <01JHKY42CD369S4IWF-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Alan - thanks - I've also contacted CDSS.  I plan to buy as many books and
CD's as the budget permits.  These dances are on the Arkansas ball program
(and I haven't had much luck yet getting dance instructions from them).  The
ball is half Scottish and half English.  I'm hoping to entice some of our
Scottish dancers (as well as some of our English dancers) to attend the ball
and figure that if we can do some practices ahead of time maybe they'll
consider it - it's a long way to go for only 9 Scottish dances or 9 English
dances - but for 18 dances more appealing (and our Scottish dancers are
never fond of sitting out anything  - and I wouldn't be surprised if the
same was true of English dancers).  The copyright issue has been done to
death on various newsgroups repeatedly so I'll skip that one.  I'm quite
happy to pay for a dance but being new to English dancing and with each of
the 9 dances (apparently) in a different book and for those recorded on CD's
each on a different CD it will get expensive in a hurry to purchase all that
on top of the $40 dollar ball cost, gown and travel.  Thanks for all the
help.
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:13 AM
Subject: "Jack's Health" notation


> Dianna, et al --
>
> Here's the notation I have for Jack's Health.  If you go back through the
> ECD archive you may find an interesting discussion of how "Bolt the Door"
> became the tune for the dance -- it appears to have been Jim Morrison's
idea.
>
> Generalizing from too small a sample size, it appears that East Coast and
West
> Coast (of the US) tempi differ on this dance.  Out here, it's played at
nearly
> contra speeds, and is a really zippy, joy-of-motion kind of dance, at
least
> for the 1s.  On Sunday I did this dance to 3/4 of Bare Necessities (the
band,
> not the tune - although the tune is in 3/4 time) and the tempo they went
with
> gave the dance a really different, and rather more elegant feeling.  I
love
> the faster version, but it doesn't really give you time to flower out on
the
> turn single.
>
> By the way, I'm happy to see notation of dances by people who've been dead
> a hundred years on this list, but don't want to see stuff by living
authors
> without their permission, or still-copyrighted material by dead authors
> without the permission of the people holding the rights.  I suspect that
> "The American Husband" falls into the latter category.  (Excerpts from
> such dances for purposes as "what does this description of the B2 mean?"
> are, I think, okay.)
>
> The question of whether you should get permission from living
> reconstructors of old dances to post their versions is a murky one.  It
may
> depend on how much rebuilding they did - as Colin Hume in his class at
> Mendocino pointed out, the Wright's version of "Alterations" is
> considerably reworked from the original.  (He then did a transliteration
of
> the original text in modern language and discussed why dancers wouldn't
> enjoy it as it stood.)
>
> But I digress.  Here's the notation for this great dance.  Enjoy!
>
>
> JACK'S HEALTH (1726)
> (Neal or CD&S 5)
> Duple minor longways - Music in Barnes ("Bolt the Door" - not title tune)
>
> A: 1s pull by, cast, go below 2s (who move up), turn two hands 1x,
>    open facing up improper.
>
> B: 1s back to back with 2s, fall back with 2s, set R&L, come forward,
>    then turn single (cloverleaf is nice).
>
>    Four changes of rights and lefts, with hands.
>
>    Two hand turn partner, finish proper.
>
> NOTE: Fried Herman hates "pull by", having been damaged once by an
> overenthusiastic puller by.  But it's a really nice move for the ones,
> especially to flow out of the the two-hand turn that finishes the previous
> round of the dance.  How nice seems to depend partly on the tempo.
>
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:21:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:19:34 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
boo.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3816A786.829DE839-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <3815ec0b.7fc1.0-AT-
jps.net>

No, Sharp didn't hear his first folk song until September, 1903, when he
heard a man named John England sing "The Seeds of Love."  So his dance
discovery came first.  Subsequently, his  _Country Dance Book_ Part I
was published in 1909, Part II in 1911, Part III in 1912, Part IV in
1916, Part V in 1918, and Part VI in 1922.  Part II is where he started
interpreting Playford dances; Part I contained traditional dances, and
Part V contained his notes on the Kentucky running set from his
Appalachian collecting.

Stephanie Smith, who just got back from a conference where she gave a
paper on ECD, so she had all the references close at hand!


adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
> 
> I have always been under the impression that Sharp was already well established
> as a collector of English folk song before his Boxing Day encounter with the
> Headington Morris side. It was this encounter that started him collecting Morris
> dances. I've not been certain exactly when he began his interpretations of Playford
> or collecting of Country dances.
> 
> Andy in Portland
> 
> >As we all know, it was on Boxing Day (26 December) 1899 that the revival
> >of English folk music--both dance and song--began when Cecil Sharp heard
> >and saw the Headington Quarry side led by William Kimber.
> >
> >To commemorate the Centenary I have prepared a short history of Sharp.
> >It consists of 32 pages of text and 3 of illustrations, on 8 1/2 by 11,
> >spiral bound with stiff covers. It is not meant as a commercial venture,
> >and to cover costs the price is $10, which includes postage.
> >
> >If anyone is interested, please send a check (or cheque)for $10 per copy
> >to me  John Bremer, P.O.Box 518, Ludlow, VT 05149. The print run was
> >limited and the copies are relatively few, but I cannot foretell the
> >interest.
> >
> >
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 11:54:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:56:42 -0005
From: Arthur Munisteri <Munisteri-AT-
att.net>
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <19991027185431.DELC20426-AT-
newmicronpc>
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On 26 Oct 99, at 13:41 Alan Winston - SSRL Central C wrote:

> Forwarded from "Andy in Portland", adpete-AT-
jps.net
<snippity-snip>
> Subj:	RE: "Jack's Health" notation
> 
> The dance notation as in CD&S 5:
<snippity-snip> 
> B1&2 
<snippity-snip>

Though bereft (in my present location) of the musical notation for 
Bolt the Door, when I run the tune through my head I don't hear any 
repeat in the B section.

Cheers, Art

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:53:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:53:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JHMOKZ792G9ZLNT4-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Folks --

I obviously need to fix my on-disk copy of Jack's Health.  This is one of
those dances that I know so well that I never look at my notes.  The "A" and
"B" assignments are mistaken; Victoria Bestock is correct that it doesn't 
match up with Neal - and I've never danced it the way it is in Neal - and about
all I can say for it is that is the commonly-done sequence of figures in the
right order.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:24:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:24:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9910271822190.28191-100000-AT-
yuma.Princeton.EDU>
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On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Arthur Munisteri wrote:

> On 26 Oct 99, at 13:41 Alan Winston - SSRL Central C wrote:
> 
> > Forwarded from "Andy in Portland", adpete-AT-
jps.net
> <snippity-snip>
> > Subj:	RE: "Jack's Health" notation
> > 
> > The dance notation as in CD&S 5:
> <snippity-snip> 
> > B1&2 
> <snippity-snip>
> 
> Though bereft (in my present location) of the musical notation for 
> Bolt the Door, when I run the tune through my head I don't hear any 
> repeat in the B section.
> 
> Cheers, Art

Is Bolt the Door even in CD&S 5?  Or does that volume have the original
tune?

In any case, Bolt the Door has a 16-bar B part that isn't repeated.  The
8-bar A part *is* repeated.

--Susie Lorand
  Princeton, NJ

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:40:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:31:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp and Boxing Day
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.991027152950.29069B-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

> I have always been under the impression that Sharp was already well established
> as a collector of English folk song before his Boxing Day encounter with the
> Headington Morris side. It was this encounter that started him collecting Morris
> dances. I've not been certain exactly when he began his interpretations of Playford
> or collecting of Country dances.

I have had the same impression. 
I seem to remember that the whole thing started when Sharp heard a 
gardener singing "The Seeds of Love" outside the window of a friend's 
house, and was so blown away by the beauty of the song that he devoted 
his life to folk song and, somewhat later, dance, both country dances and 
morris.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:09:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 21:09:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Early refs. to ECD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.991027210651.25111B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
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To all who have asked me for this ref., here it is:

James B. Cunningham. "The Country dance--Early References," JEFSFD Society
ix (1962), p. 148ff.

Julia Sutton





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:20:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:20:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3817b2e1.643d.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>
>On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Arthur Munisteri wrote:
>
>> On 26 Oct 99, at 13:41 Alan Winston - SSRL Central C wrote:
>> 
>> > Forwarded from "Andy in Portland", adpete-AT-
jps.net
>> <snippity-snip>
>> > Subj:	RE: "Jack's Health" notation
>> > 
>> > The dance notation as in CD&S 5:
>> <snippity-snip> 
>> > B1&2 
>> <snippity-snip>
>> 
>> Though bereft (in my present location) of the musical notation for 
>> Bolt the Door, when I run the tune through my head I don't hear any 
>> repeat in the B section.
>> 
>> Cheers, Art
>
>Is Bolt the Door even in CD&S 5?  Or does that volume have the original
>tune?
>
>In any case, Bolt the Door has a 16-bar B part that isn't repeated.  The
>8-bar A part *is* repeated.
>
>--Susie Lorand
>  Princeton, NJ
>
I just copied the notation as Jim Morrison printed it in CD&S 5.
The "B1&2" notation is Jim's. And yes, Art, both tunes are printed in this source.


Andy in Portland

(Sorry for the duplication, Susie. I just forgot to change the "Send To" address
the first time.)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:50:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:43:46 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD recommendations
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <013801bf2119$1f91a180$36e8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm new to English Country Dancing but want to attempt to teach simpler
English Country Dances to the Scottish Country dancers I lead.  I'm trying
to make decisions on CD's to purchase.  The English Country dances that I've
learned so far:  Juice of Barley, Draper's Garden, Picking Up Sticks, Green
Willow, Knole Park, Grimstock, Indian Queen, Sicilian Round, Levi Jackson
Rag and The Female Sailor, and The Wood Duck. I have music for The Female
Saylor and The Wood Duck.  Can anyone recommend CD's for the other dances?
and CD's in general for all the basic Playford dances?  I tried looking up
CDSS pages - but the CD's don't list individual tunes - I can send away for
lists of particular ones - but that may become time consuming especially
since I'm not sure what to look for in the first place. Also if you have any
suggestions of which English Country dances would be good to start with to
teach to Scottish Country dancers.
Thanks,
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:27:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:30:04 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <381833BC.FED2FD5F-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <013801bf2119$1f91a180$36e8490c-AT-
pavilion>

Dianna,

Dianna Shipman wrote:

> I'm new to English Country Dancing but want to attempt to teach simpler
> English Country Dances to the Scottish Country dancers I lead.  I'm trying
> to make decisions on CD's to purchase.  The English Country dances that I've
> learned so far:  Juice of Barley, Draper's Garden, Picking Up Sticks, Green
> Willow, Knole Park, Grimstock, Indian Queen, Sicilian Round, Levi Jackson
> Rag and The Female Sailor, and The Wood Duck. I have music for The Female
> Saylor and The Wood Duck.  Can anyone recommend CD's for the other dances?
> and CD's in general for all the basic Playford dances?

These next recordings are all good buys and still available, contain excellent
music and include many dances from the standard repertoire:
- three CD's by Bare Necessities, i.e.: "Bare Necessities", "Take a Dance" and
"Favorites of the Boston Centre";
- four LP's (now, I think, available as tapes) produced by the EFDSS in the late
1970s;
- Playford Pops, by Chris Dewhurst and Sue Stapledon;
- Pride and Prejudice, by David Fleming-Williams and friends;
- English Dance Favorites (?), by Hold the Mustard;
- Step Stately, produced by the CDSS.

Juice of Barley: on one of the EFDSS LP's I mentioned;
Draper's Gardens: on a Wild Thyme tape that accompanies Fallibroome;
Picking Up Sticks: on one of the EFDSS LP's;
Green Willow: is on the Maggot Pie tapes, produced by Wild Thyme;
Knole Park: can't recommend any recording, let's hope Bare Necessities will
record it;
Grimstock: on Pride and Prejudice, also on one of the EFDSS LP's;
Indian Queen: on one of the EFDSS LP's, on Pride and Prejudice and, also on
Playford Pops (I believe -- I'm typing this at work)


Philippe Callens
Antwerp, Belgium

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:59:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:59:13 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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uia.ua.ac.be>

Philippe Callens wrote:
> 
> Juice of Barley: on one of the EFDSS LP's I mentioned;
> Draper's Gardens: on a Wild Thyme tape that accompanies Fallibroome;
> Picking Up Sticks: on one of the EFDSS LP's;
> Green Willow: is on the Maggot Pie tapes, produced by Wild Thyme;
> Knole Park: can't recommend any recording, let's hope Bare Necessities will
> record it;
> Grimstock: on Pride and Prejudice, also on one of the EFDSS LP's;
> Indian Queen: on one of the EFDSS LP's, on Pride and Prejudice and, also on
> Playford Pops (I believe -- I'm typing this at work)
> 

Philippe has left out the CDSS recording Claremont Country Dance Band, "Juice
of Barley" which I'm pretty sure has Knole Park, as well as Juice of Barley.

Also the other two CDSS LPs (probably only tapes now) that came out about
the same time:  Popular English Country Dances of the 17th and 18th Centuries
(also by Claremont) and the Marshall Barron et al one "Step Stately: Two and
Three Couple Dances from 17th & 18th Century England" are well worth having.

The Juice of Barley record is subtitled "easy dances for newcomers" or something
along those lines;  the other two records are more standard/complicated
repertoire.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 07:38:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:17:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Praetzel <dancer-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199910281317.JAA20773-AT-
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> to make decisions on CD's to purchase.  The English Country dances that I've
> learned so far:  Juice of Barley, Draper's Garden, Picking Up Sticks, Green
> Willow, Knole Park, Grimstock, Indian Queen, Sicilian Round, Levi Jackson
> Rag and The Female Sailor, and The Wood Duck. 

  Well, I make and sell CDs within the SCA; but they are also available
  to people outside of the SCA (a medieval/renaissance historical group).

  Information about the CDs is at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/CD-offer

  All of the music on the CDs is available on the web in Real Audio and MP3.
  Some CDs have a royality (most are a bit over $2US with no royalty) and
  in that case I only have snippets of the songs.

  ECD tends to be popular in the SCA; but we do try and restrict
  ourselves to the 1651 edition of Playford.  However, that has not
  been overly successfull so you'll find dances upto the early 1900's.

  I also have sheet music for many of the songs at

  http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/dances.html

  One note.  I've lost my USA producer so I'm handling all of the production
  right now.

  - Eric
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 11:19:13 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[155.33.181.244]>
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"Juice of Barley" is also on the first "Bare Necessities" CD. Some other
dances on this CD are also lovely and easy, such as "Well Hall" and "Maiden
Lane".


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:19:05 PST
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:18:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: BILLQS-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
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Hi!

One CD that is excellent for dancing 1651 Playford English Country Dances is 
The New York Renaissance Band's Country Capers. This is a reissue of an 
earlier LP which may have had another title, but the tracks were recorded 
with dancing in mind.  Here are the contents:
Rufty Tufty                             Mundesse
Heart's Ease                            Lull Me Beyond Thee
Argeers                                 Dargason
Chestnut                                Gathering Peascods
Boate Man                               The Beggar Boy
Dissembling Love                        Jenny Pluck Pears
Confesse                                Upon a Summer's Day
The Maid Peeped Out at the Window       Woodicocke
Petticoat Wag                           Saturday Night & Sunday Morning
The Merry, Merry Milke Maids            Staines Morris
Newcastle                               Lavena
The Fine Companion                  The Glory of the West
Kettle Drum

It is available directly from Arabesque Recordings catalog#Z6520.  I hope 
this helps.

Bill Street
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 13:00:18 -0005
From: Arthur Munisteri <Munisteri-AT-
att.net>
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
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On 28 Oct 99, at 2:20 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

<snippity-snip>

> >Is Bolt the Door even in CD&S 5?  Or does that volume have the original
> >tune?
> >
> >In any case, Bolt the Door has a 16-bar B part that isn't repeated.  The
> >8-bar A part *is* repeated.
> >
> >--Susie Lorand
> >  Princeton, NJ
> >
> I just copied the notation as Jim Morrison printed it in CD&S 5.
> The "B1&2" notation is Jim's. And yes, Art, both tunes are printed in this
> source.

<snippity-snip> 
> 
> Andy in Portland

I can't figure out how to copy everything that's relevant without 
creating a message that is not at all gainly, but I'd like to try 
recapitulating just to minimize confusion for the future. I, Art, was 
the one who thought that Bolt the Door (the tune), at least as used 
for the dance Jack's Health, had no repeat in the B section. Susie 
Lorand is the one who wondered whether the musical notation for 
Bolt the Door was printed in CD&S 5, but confirmed that BtD (tune) 
has no repeat in the B section. Andy says that the notation of 
B1&2 that he used (which is what prompted my, Art's, observation 
and query) comes from Jim Morrison's notation in CD&S 5. So I 
think we're agreed that BtD, as used for Jack's Health, does *not* 
have a B2; so anyone on this list who's tempted to try to teach 
Jack's Health to BtD ought to be able to figure out the correlation 
between figures and music from this thread. The only question I 
now have is whether CD&S 5 is really incorrect. It occurs to me 
that perhaps Jim Morrison's notation of a B2 refers only to the 
*tune* JH, rather than to the tune BtD. [I have no idea whether the 
tune JH has a repeat in the B section. I think I've danced to the 
original tune only once.] Or is Jim's notation perhaps ambiguous? I 
don't have CD&S 5 available to me, and my pedantic -- I mean 
scholarly -- interest doesn't extend to looking it up. But now that 
Jim Morrison has been distinctly identified as the source of an 
inaccuracy, perhaps he or his friends might like some one to 
confirm whether that allegation is correct. Does CD & S publish 
errata lists?

Cheers, Art

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:34:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:11:25 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Hi, Folks:

The following dances are on two CD's obtainable from

Nicolas Broadbridge
Linnmill, Kirkfieldbank
Lanark ML11 9UP
Scotland

E-mail: sallennic-AT-
linnmill1.freeserve.co.uk

Each costs 13 pounds Stirling plus 2 pounds and 60 pence
for postage and packing.

Have fun! John
Bedford, Nova Scotia

THE ASSEMBLEY PLAYERS
"Dance and Danceability" 1998
and
"A Walsh Ball" 1993

CONTENTS:

3DD Adieu, The   5-Co Longways Set  1780
40W Amsbury   Duple Minor Longways  1726
16DD Barley Mow, The  3-Co Longways Set  1779
20DD Bishop, The   Triple Minor Longways  1778
6DD Cambridge Waltz, The  Duple Minor Longways  1816
1DD Comical Fellow, The  Duple Minor Longways  1776
7DD Cuckoo's Nest, The  3-Co Longways Set  1775
17DD Disbanded Officer, The  Duple Minor Longways  1811
21DD Duke of Kent's Waltz, The Duple Minor Longways  1801
4DD Dutch Dollars   Triple Minor Longways  1800
38W Edinborough Castle  Duple Minor Longways  1718
23W Ely Court   Duple Minor Longways  1718
14DD Freemason, The  3-Co Longways Set  1778
25W Health to all Honest Men, A Duple Minor Longways  1718
19DD Hop Pickers' Feast, The  3-Co Longways Set  1786
27W Irish Lamentation  Duple Minor Longways  1735
10DD Juliana    3-Co Longways Set  1816
34W Kingsail    Duple Minor Longways  1732
35W Lady Pentweazle's Maggott 3-Co Longways Set  1753
13DD Leamington Dance, The  Duple Minor Longways  1811
12DD Long Odds   Duple Minor Longways  1790
33W Lord Phoppington  Duple Minor Longways  1718
31W Nassau, The [1]   Triple Minor Longways  1733
32W Nassau, The [2]   Triple Minor Longways  1733
15DD Old Jubilee, The  Triple Minor Longways  1816
24W Oswestry Wake   4-Co Longways Set  1718
22W Maid's Last Wish, The  Duple Minor Longways  1718
2DD Morning Rout, The  3-Co Longways Set  1780
9DD Rainbow, The   Duple Minor Longways  1780
8DD Ramsgate Assembley  3-Co Longways Set  1795
39W Prince William   3-Co Longways Set  1731
30W Queen's Borow   3-Co Longways Set  1710
28W Russel, The   3-Co Longways Set  1718
29W Sally in our Alley  Duple Minor Longways  1719
36W Salutation   Duple Minor Longways  1706
26W Scotch Billy   3-Co Longways Set  1731
5DD Temple of Health, The  3-Co Longways Set  1789
37W Valentine's Day   Duple Minor Longways  1718
18DD Wakefield Hunt   Triple Minor Longways  1780
11DD Young Widow, The  3-Co Longways Set  1788



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:41:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:27:01 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD recommendations
To: English Article <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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pavilion>
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thanks for all the great suggestions!  Much appreciated.
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 14:01:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:01:33 -0400
From: Harold Griswold <griswold-AT-
saber.towson.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Baltimore Concert
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.05.9910241653480.10827311-100000-AT-
saber.towson.edu>
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Towson University
Center for the Arts Concert Hall (Osler & Cross Campus Blvd)

Gourcher College's Chorégraphie Antique, Directed by Chrystelle Bond 
and TU's Early Music Ensemble, Directed by H. Gene Griswold

MUSIC AND DANCE IN COLONIAL MARYLAND
(free admission)

Sunday, October 31, 1999	3:00 pm

PROGRAM:

Songs for the First President
		
Minuet OrdinaireLafayette Cotillion
Fisher's Hornpipe
The Convention
Successful Campaign
Mount Vernon
Harlequin and Columbine
Overture: Grand Club Minuet Con variatione - The Reverend Thomas Bacon
(1700?-1768) (one of Maryland's first accomplished composers)

Sweet Richard
Washington's Resignation
College Hornpipe
The Highland Fling
Maid of the Oaks
Irish Reel
Mr. Turner's Academy Cotillion

Dance Reconstruction: Chrystelle T. Bond, Jayme Klinger Host, Martha
Schwieters

Costume Design and Construction: David Burdick,  Beale Cockey

Dancers:  Beale Cockey, Monique Ducar, Aric Ingle, Micki Ingle, Amy
Janney, Mike Kubik, Cristina Manfra,  Frank Patinella, David Polimene,
Philip Troll, Lynette Winters

Music Reconstruction: Gene Griswold, Marshall Barron, John Tally

Musicians: Dave Baum (baroque trumpet),  Erika Bubnash (voice, cello,
recorder, bass gamba, violin, baroque flute), Larissa Falcioni (voice,
flute, recorders), Gene Griswold (director, bassoon, crumhorn, dulcian),
Sara Hanson (guitar), Denis Karp (flute, recorders), Kathleen Morgan
(violin), Frank Owens (baroque trumpet), Mathew Perich (guitar and
percussion).


Chorégraphie Antique, The Dance History Ensemble of Goucher

	Chorégraphie Antique, comprised of students, alumni and friends of
GOUCHER COLLEGE'S Dance Department, bring history to life through
reconstructions of popular dances from the past.  From Medieval basse
danses and balli, Renaissance galliards, branles and canaries, Baroque
minuets and sarabands, Romantic waltzes, polkas, and mazurkas, swinging
jitterbugs, disco and hip hop, the ensemble performs favorite dance crazes
in historical context with narratives based on careful research.
	Established in 1988, Chorégraphie Antique has performed its
reconstructions in Colonial Williamsburg, Longwood Gardens, the University
of Pennsylvania, the Smithsonian Institute, the Walters Art Gallery, the
Baltimore Museum of Art, the Maryland Historical Society, Mount Vernon
Plantation, Hampton Mansion, Historic St. Mary's City, Brice House, Mount
Clare Mansion and many other historic and cultural sites.  The ensemble
has performed with the Baltimore Symphony, the Peabody Ragtime Ensemble,
the Towson University Early Music Ensemble, Musica Antiqua, David and
Ginger Hildebrand, Cindy Swiss and Richard North.
	For more information, contact Chrystelle T. Bond, Professor of
Dance, Founding Chair of the Dance Department and Director of Chorégraphie
Antique at 410-337-6391; FAX: 410-337-6123 or cbond-AT-
goucher.edu

Towson University Early Music Ensemble

	Founded and directed by Professor H. Gene Griswold, EME (Early
Music Ensemble - MUSC 159, 359, 659) is a student ensemble occasionally
joined by faculty and alumni in performances of music literature from the
Medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque eras.   Recent programs include: The
Play of Daniel (A Medieval Drama), Music from Shakespeare's Plays,
Medieval and Renaissance Music by Women Composers, A Renaissance
Christmas, A Medieval Christmas, Music of the Gothic Era, Music for
Recorders and Guitars and An Evening of Medieval, Renaissance and Baroque
Dance with Goucher College's historical dance ensemble, Chorégraphie
Antique, directed by Chrystelle Bond. 
	EME's instrumentarium contains over 30 replicas of historical
instruments including medieval vielles and r  rebec,  pipe and  tabor,
gothic harp, lute, psaltery, renaissance flute, cornettos, sackbuts,
cornemuse, dulcian, harpsichord, guitar, various percussion instruments
and full consorts of shawms, viols, crumhorns, and recorders.  EME has
appeared as part of concert series and music festivals sponsored by the
Washington National Cathedral, The Cathedral Mary Our Queen, The American
Guild of Organists, Walters Art Gallery, Baltimore Museum of Art, Second
Presbyterian Church, and Goucher College. 
	For more information contact H. Gene Griswold, Professor of Music
and EME Director at 41-830-2821; FAX 410-830-2841 or griswold-AT-
towson.edu








================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 17:53:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:52:36 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance suggestions: was CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201bf21a7$e47c7540$47d5bfa8-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Hello, Dianna,

Having taught ECD to Scottish dancers, I  suggest that you avoid, at first,
some of ECD's more ethereal dances, on the grounds that their beauty is
often elusive to Scottish dancers who expect to be able to hear the beat and
the phrase line distinctly.  Something like The Old Mill would not be a good
choice.  Wait till later.

Another feature of ECD that often confuses Scottish dancers is the concept
of the triple minor longways dance.  You might think that this wouldn't be a
problem because, after all, most Scottish dances are triple minors.  In
Scottish dances, however, the longways set is stopped at four couples; so,
although they are accustomed to changing from 3s to 2s while remaining with
the same 1s, Scottish dancers are not experienced in changing from 2s to 3s
and moving up into the next triple minor grouping.

Good luck in your teaching.

Pat Ruggiero

----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Dianna Shipman
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 3:44 AM
To: English Article
Subject: CD recommendations


I'm new to English Country Dancing but want to attempt to teach simpler
English Country Dances to the Scottish Country dancers I lead.  I'm trying
to make decisions on CD's to purchase.  The English Country dances that I've
learned so far:  Juice of Barley, Draper's Garden, Picking Up Sticks, Green
Willow, Knole Park, Grimstock, Indian Queen, Sicilian Round, Levi Jackson
Rag and The Female Sailor, and The Wood Duck. I have music for The Female
Saylor and The Wood Duck.  Can anyone recommend CD's for the other dances?
and CD's in general for all the basic Playford dances?  I tried looking up
CDSS pages - but the CD's don't list individual tunes - I can send away for
lists of particular ones - but that may become time consuming especially
since I'm not sure what to look for in the first place. Also if you have any
suggestions of which English Country dances would be good to start with to
teach to Scottish Country dancers.
Thanks,
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:06:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 00:05:16 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199910290005_MC2-8AE7-974D-AT-
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Message text written by Art Munisteri
>But now that Jim Morrison has been distinctly identified as the source of
an 
inaccuracy, perhaps he or his friends might like some one to confirm
whether that allegation is correct.<

"Bolt the Door" has a 16-bar "B" music, as Susie noted, that could be
written either as a single "B" music of 16 bars (in 6/8 jig time), or as a
B1 and B2 each of 8 bars with a first and second ending (only the last
couple of bars would be different).

So there's really no inaccuracy, just the usual drift in how things get
transmitted.  The dance figure does not have the feeling of a repeated
phrase, so I would characterize the dance/tune as AAB.  [BTW, this has
become "an issue," as we decided to include this kind of information on the
Boston Centre ECD recordings with Bare Necessities.  In cases where there
can be ambiguity in notation of the tune, I've decided in favor of the
structure of the dance, assuming leaders will be looking at dance
directions, not the music.  Any opinions about this?  Some dances/tunes are
tricky-- check out "From Aberdeen" for instance, appearing on the
soon-to-be-released Volume 2?]

Jack's Health was discussed in great detail on this list over a year ago,
including origins, Pat Shaw's reconstruction, Jim Morrison's work, etc.,
etc.  Check the archives; preserve current bandwidth.

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Caller, Musician and lockpicker .
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:53:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:53:15 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991029075315.007b6910-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
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Hi, Dianna,
(I think we've met before somewhere !)

We do a mixture of ECD and SCD.
The records I use and reccommend for their musicality are:
Assembly Players: Purcell Ball.
                           : Dance & Danceability (with instructions --
nothing too difficult)
                           : My Family, dances by john Wood  (interesting
recently devised dances)
Wild Thyme: Dutch Crossing.
All of these records have elicited spontaneous "great music" remarks from
our dancers, whereas Bare Necessities' and  Little Tinkers' recordings have
not. Since the quality of the music is most important for the enjoyment of
a dance, this governs my choices.

My suggestions may not correspond to the dances you have learnt up to now,
but once you have begun ECD, it's easier to pick up other English dances,
than it is picking up new Scottish ones. 
By the way, some of my Scottish dancers here complain that ECD is too easy,
so you don't necessarily want to choose the simplest ones! Unusual
formations such as Levi Jackson Rag will, I think, go down better than
straightforward longway sets.

>and CDs for all the basic Playford dances? 

I hope you get an answer for that question; I'd like to know, myself.

Have "Wild Thyme" not brought out any other CDs? Does anyone know?
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:36:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 12:39:47 +0100
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hartford ball
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
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I wonder whether anyone knows when the Hartford Playford Ball will take
place in the year 2000.

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:44:09 PST
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:51:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hartford ball
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Helen Davenport <dancerhiker-AT-
gateway.net>
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--- Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be> wrote:
> I wonder whether anyone knows when the Hartford Playford Ball will
> take
> place in the year 2000.
 
Without question someone knows.

However, if you would like to be among those who know, the best
person to talk to would be Helen Davenport, who organizes the event,
and books the West Hartford Town Hall a year in advance for it (and
was kind enough to use her mailing list for the upcoming New Haven
Ball, for those of you who were puzzled at receiving a New Haven Ball
flier with a Reel Nutmeg return address.  I am forwarding this
message on to her, and perhaps she will let all of us know.

Barbara

=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:24:52 PST
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:31:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Westchester Dance tonight?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Could some nice person on this list please send me details on the
Westchester dance tonight, i.e. time and place.
Thanks.

Barbara Ruth
New Haven

=====
Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:22:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:19:15 -0400
From: Susan Murrow <75272.730-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Westchester Dance tonight?
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Hi Barbara / and all !

The Halloween dance/party in Westchester this evening
runs from 8-11:00 pm at the Church in the Highlands, White Plains

Scott Higgs is MC and the band is Margaret Ann Martin on piano,
Julian Cole on double bass, and Gene Murrow on concertina...

Admission is $12 for non-members and $10 for members

Costumes are encouraged + prizes will be awarded!

See you there, I hope!

All good wishes from Susan Murrow
 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:57:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:57:16 -0700
From: Bruce Hamilton <hamilton-AT-
hplbh.hpl.hp.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dealing with mistakes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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There's an interesting discussion over in the Scottish dance list
about dealing with mistakes, and I've taken the opportunity to do a
little research there.  I'll ask the same questions here, if I may.

Here's what I said on the other list:
  Let me ask you all, the next time you make a mistake, to notice:
   * What kind of help would you have liked?  Be specific: would you
     have liked to feel something?  To see something?  To hear
     something?  A combination of those?  What would it have been --
     what touch, what image, what sounds?
   * When would you have liked it?  For example, two bars before you
     went wrong?  One bar?  One beat?  Just after you realized you
     wanted help?
   * How many people would you have liked the help from?  Which one(s)?
     Where were they at the time?

  And report to the list.  It's hard to notice or remember all those
  things, so just report on what you did notice and remember.  Also, in
  doing this, you'll sometimes make other mistakes as a result.  Stay
  focussed on the first one, or you'll wind up not remembering anything.

  It is tempting to speculate on what other people want, or should want,
  but it's more valuable to hear what you did want.  I'll bet we see
  some interesting patterns.

And here's an example of the kind of report I'm hoping for:
 "Last night I let my attention wander in class, so that I wasn't ready
  for a figure.  My partner caught my eye, but too late for me to join
  successfully.  What would have helped?  Her "hey, you!" look sooner (I
  guess she did it about half a bar before we began, and I'd guess that
  somewhere between 1 and 2 bars would have done it).  I wasn't actually
  looking anywhere -- I was thinking -- but she was in my field of view.
  No one else could have caught my eye.

 "I would also have responded to someone quietly speaking my name in
  about the same time interval.  No other sound would have awakened me:
  there were plenty of sounds, and I was ignoring them all.  The sound
  would have had to come from the direction of the dancers who needed
  me; if it had come from somewhere else I would have turned my
  attention there instead."


Thanks in advance.  I'll summarize the results to the list.

Bruce Hamilton			Hewlett-Packard Laboratories     MS-4AD
Phone 650-857-2818		PO Box 10150, Palo Alto, CA  94303-0889
Fax   650-852-8092		bruce_hamilton-AT-
hpl.hp.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:53:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:49:15 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dealing with mistakes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[155.33.181.244]>
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>  Let me ask you all, the next time you make a mistake, to notice:
>   * What kind of help would you have liked?  Be specific: would you
>     have liked to feel something?  To see something?  To hear
>     something?  A combination of those?  What would it have been --
>     what touch, what image, what sounds?
It depends on what kind of mistake I'm making--if I'm  spacing out, the
best prompt is speaking my name softly. if I'm already in motion, then eye
contact, a smile and a gesture in the right direction usually work the
best.  A smile tranfuses confidence, which is helpful when figures begin to
slip. A gesture often works better than words, because when I'm moving I'm
mostly looking for visual clues from the other dancers anyway. If the
gesture is done in such a way that it blends into the dance then it's even
better as I feel less embarassed for making a mistake and I feel more
supported by my partner.

There are times though when words work well. Here in Boston the last hour
is talkthroughs, no walk throughs, and no calling. Sometimes halfway
through a complicated dance,  a short verbal prompt is the most helpful
thing to do. A firm tone here transmits confidence to the set.

As far as timing goes, all of the above prompts are best when the timing is
the same used by a good caller; but when you need'em, you take'm when you
can get'em.

Who should prompt? current person I'm dancing with is best; if both of us
are lost, then help is welcome from anywhere.


Best,
 Terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:57:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:57:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Dealing with mistakes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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>Bruce Hamilton wrote:
>>  Let me ask you all, the next time you make a mistake, to >>notice: * What
kind of help would you have liked?  Be >>specific: would you have liked to feel
something?  To see >>something?  To hear something?  A combination of those?
 What >>would it have been --
>>     what touch, what image, what sounds?

Terence Gaffney replied:
>It depends on what kind of mistake I'm making--if I'm  spacing >out, the best
prompt is speaking my name softly. if I'm already >in motion, then eye contact,
a smile and a gesture in the right >direction usually work the best.  A smile
tranfuses confidence, >which is helpful when figures begin to slip. A gesture
often >works better than words, because when I'm moving I'm mostly >looking
for visual clues from the other dancers anyway. If the
>gesture is done in such a way that it blends into the dance >then it's even
better as I feel less embarassed for making a >mistake and I feel more supported
by my partner.
>
>There are times though when words work well. Here in Boston the >last hour
is talkthroughs, no walk throughs, and no calling. >Sometimes halfway through
a complicated dance,  a short verbal >prompt is the most helpful thing to do.
A firm tone here >transmits confidence to the set.
>
>As far as timing goes, all of the above prompts are best when >the timing is
the same used by a good caller; but when you >need'em, you take'm when you can
get'em.
>
>Who should prompt? current person I'm dancing with is best; if >both of us
are lost, then help is welcome from anywhere.
>

Because I am a good dancer and people don't usually expect me to make a mistake
(they've told me that), when I start to do the wrong figure it is very easy
for me to lead the entire foursome into the wrong move. When the mistake is
realized I can usually think fast enough to get the group back on track. This
happens to me a lot in contras after a dance has been going on for a while and
I'm running on auto-pilot. (A good reason for not letting a dance go on too
long.) I'm less likely to do it in English, but I still do, especially in dances
I'm not real familiar with. I just have to have someone in the foursome who
is more stubborn than I am.

Once at a Hartford contra dance, an entire (short) line got a whole eight bars
behind the music and I was able to get them back on the music by calling the
figures where they should have been and using a frim lead in time to the music.
The dance sequence had a down-the-center-and-back, cast off, hey across the
set, partner swing. Many places the dancers are very bad about how far down
the center they go before turning around (because most callers don't *teach*
them properly). In this case, they were about three bars behind when they cast
off, four by the time they started the hey and a full eight by the time they
finished  the swing. I had them back "on" by the end of one turn through the
dance, partly because I did the down the center in the right place, forcing
people to adjust.

What was the caller doing through all this? He, who will remain nameless, had
turned his back and was looking at his note cards figuring out the next dance
he wanted to do. 

Note to callers: Pay attention to what is happening on the floor. You are there
to *help* the dancers.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:24:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:23:22 +0100
From: Michael Barraclough <michael.barraclough-AT-
tgis.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: slipping and sliding
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003801bf225c$35f8d9e0$2047fea9-AT-
oemcomputer>
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Pressure of work has meant that I have been away from my email since early
June.  I presume that the version of Nonesuch that Colin teaches is mine
(leastways, its mine that he published) in which case I would be happy to
talk about why I interpreted Nonesuch in the way I did.  If anyone wants
this, please let me know.

Michael Barraclough



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
> [mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Emily L.
> Ferguson
> Sent: 25 July 1999 19:28
> To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Subject: Re: slipping and sliding
>
>
> At 10:26 AM -0700 7/25/99, paul/victoria bestock wrote:
> >At 11:43 AM 7/23/99 -0400, Emily Ferguson  wrote:
> >>I'm sort of hoping we'll realize (snip) that there are no 1.5 sidings or
> >funny hops in Newcastle.  They're in Nonesuch.
> >
> >Nonesuch is what I meant.  I guess its not what I said.   But
> you misquote
> >me on "siding"-- I really did mean "sliding" which is the generic folk
> >dance term for "slipping."  I used that word because I wanted to
> >differentiate between slip as in 'move sidewards in a gallop step, also
> >known as slide', and  slip-- 'move between two people.'  In the revised
> >Nonesuch the active couple meets without the funny jump, and
> slips, meaning
> >"moves between" the next couple for four beats without slipping or
> >sliding-- just walking.
> >
> >Victoria
>
> Ah, ha.  I see where you're talking about.   As I understand Mike's
> interpretation, he means for the active couple to dance into the center (4
> steps) and face down, taking inside hands, then dance down between the set
> to face out ready to pousette with the next couple (another 4 steps).
>
> And as I understand it, there's no slipping or sliding in his method.
>
> And it's also true that the entire movement becomes quite difficult if you
> do it his way.  Dancing in to meet in 4 steps when you're only 2 steps
> apart requires that famous Aily problem - thinking ahead, maybe even
> curving around a bit.  Dancing down the middle 4 steps when
> you've only got
> 2 steps to go to cover the distance - more of a similar problem.
>
> Mike?
>
> Care to join the discussion?
>
>
>                             Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
>                                                       elf-AT-
cape.com
>                              Photographer, English Country Dance leader
>
>                                               Small brave carnivores
>                                              Kill pine cones and
> mosquitoes.
>                                              Fear vacuum cleaner.
>
> from "Kitty Haiku"
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:45:42 PST
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:45:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  ECD Digest V1 #614
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In a message dated 29/10/1999 3:08:16 pm, John Wood wrote:

<<The following dances are on two CD's obtainable from

Nicolas Broadbridge
Linnmill, Kirkfieldbank
Lanark ML11 9UP
Scotland

E-mail: sallennic-AT-
linnmill1.freeserve.co.uk

Each costs 13 pounds Stirling plus 2 pounds and 60 pence
for postage and packing.>>

I'd just like to clarify the p&p charges: John had the two CD he mentions, 
and the p&p was £2.60 as he states for the two together!
P&p to the USA generally works out at £1.75 for single CD's.
                                                    Nicolas B., Lanark, 
Scotland.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:31:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:39:08 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dealing with mistakes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991029163908.007ab690-AT-
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Responding to Bruce's request on dealing with mistakes.

Generally I like non-verbal help just before ( a few beats before) I make a
mistake, so that I don't make it.  Eye contact or a change of body angle
are best (non-touching, visual cues) and sometimes a gentle lead that
reminds me which way to go (eg cross instead of cast).  BUT

I appreciate being allowed to make the mistake, if the non-verbal help is
likely to hurt (eg, holding firmly onto my arm in an effort to prevent me
from turning single when I shouldn't, taking me by both shoulders and
flinging me sideways to get me started in a hey with the correct shoulder).
      

Help afterwards?  Sounds like an oxymoron to me. I hate help after the
mistake is made-- it doesn't help the situation, and I hear it as implying
that I shouldn't have made the mistake in the first place.  I already know
that.  I generally know immediately what I SHOULD have done, and where I
would have wound up if I'd done it right, and I can get there on my own. If
not, point to where I should start the next figure from so that I can get
there and do that one right. Any talking about the mistake after it
happened takes my attention from the part of the dance I'm trying to do
NOW, generally leading to more mistakes. Instead, if you are convinced that
I didn't learn from the mistake, and am likely to do it again, give the
help two beats before that part of the dance comes around again.
Afterwards isn't any good to me.  

The BEST help is a smile that lets me know that even though I spaced out
and forgot to set to you, we are still friends.  (I think this is a much
overlooked aspect of helping, particularly from experienced dancers to
beginners.  Newcomers are extremely self-conscious about messing up the
"good" dancers, and have to be made to feel that the mistake didn't matter
at all, that nobody minded, that they are perfectly competant and lovable
despite the mistake. "Mistake, what mistake?  Forgotten already." )

Sometimes words ARE needed, but the fewer the better.  If I'm facing the
wrong way for rights and lefts, just my name is enough to get me turned
around.
IF I get into a set late and the caller has stopped calling,  I can usually
do OK with non-verbal cues from the couple above, though one of them acting
as caller with prompts just before the next figure is OK.  

Like many learners with a strong visual and kinesthetic componant, words
tend to interfere with my learning.  Words prevent me from picking up
kinesthetic cues and from watching the set ahead, from whom I'm learning
the dance visually -- I can't attend to what I'm seeing and feeling if I
also hear words-- the verbal side of the brain drowns out the picture side
that I'm using to learn the dance.  

And words prevent me from hearing the music, and getting the patterns of
the dance associated with the tune so that I can let the music tell me
what's next.  
Explanations from dancers are sometimes useful while waiting out at the top
and bottom of the set, but even there, if the dance is new to me, I may be
busy mentally learning the other part by watching, and not want to be
interrupted.    

Victoria Bestock


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:45:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 21:42:44 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <381A5B24.9F111800-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.19991029075315.007b6910-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>

M Sheffield wrote:

> >and CDs for all the basic Playford dances?
>
> I hope you get an answer for that question; I'd like to know, myself.

That would, I suppose, depend on what you consider "basic" Playford dances.
There's hundreds to choose.  :-)

--Charlene

--
Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 22:16:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:32:40 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00e401bf2295$e3cb82a0$0100007f-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.19991029075315.007b6910-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr> <381A5B24.9F111800-AT-
flash.net>

The list I had in mind is shown below - although I don't know how popular
these are - but they seem to appear on a lot of lists:

Apley House
The Bishop
Broom, the Bonny Bonny Broom
The Black Nag
Chelsea Reach
Chestnut
Childgrove
Confesse
Dargason
Dick's Maggot
The Dressed Ship
Fourpence Halfpenny Farthing
The Fandango
Gathering Peascods
Greensleeves and Yellow Lace
Greenwich Park
Grimstock
The Guidman of Ballangigh
The Health
 Hey, Boys, Up Go We
Hit and Miss
The Hole in the Wall
Hunsdon House
If All the World were Paper
The Indian Queen
Jack's Maggot
Jacob Hall's Jig
Jenny Pluck Pears
Juice of Barley
Lilli Burlero
Mad Robin
Mage on a Cree
Maid's Morris
The Merry, Merry Milkmaids
Mr Beveridge's Maggot
Mr Isaac's Maggot
Never Love Thee More
Newcastle
 Nonesuch
The Old Mole
Oranges and Lemons
Parson's Farewell
The Phoenix
Picking up Sticks
The Queen's Jig
The Round
Rufty Tufty
Sellenger's Round
The Shrewsbury Lasses
Sion House
Step Stately
A Trip to Kilburn
A Trip to Paris
The Twenty Ninth of May
Whirligig

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: CD recommendations


> M Sheffield wrote:
>
> > >and CDs for all the basic Playford dances?
> >
> > I hope you get an answer for that question; I'd like to know, myself.
>
> That would, I suppose, depend on what you consider "basic" Playford
dances.
> There's hundreds to choose.  :-)
>
> --Charlene
>
> --
> Plan to be spontaneous tomorrow.
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 01:46:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:30:15 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD recommendations
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991030103015.007bbc20-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.19991029075315.007b6910-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>


>> >and CDs for all the basic Playford dances?
>>
>
>That would, I suppose, depend on what you consider "basic" Playford dances.

How about "most popular"/"most well-known"/most interesting" ?

Or to put it simply:
What CDs are available for Playford dances?
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 05:35:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:33:08 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: CD recommendations [2]
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <3.0.5.32.19991029075315.007b6910-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr> <381A5B24.9F111800-AT-
flash.net> <00e401bf2295$e3cb82a0$0100007f-AT-
pavilion>

Hi, Dianna:

I have been dancing English Folk for a long time now. Before I came to Canada
I had obtained all the EFDSS recordings available up to that time -- and
bought some others in later months.

There were not many 45rpm's or 33rpm LP's of Playford dances at that time.
But a lot of those you have listed below were recorded.
Compared to today's recording standards some of them, for want of a
better term, sound "old fashioned."

I am not able to say factually where recordings of those dances could be
found today.
IMHO, although the "sound" in my collection may seem odd to "modern" ears, in

many ways it is a more accurate interpretation than a lot of recent modern
N.A.
recordings. This does not mean there is anything "wrong" with the new sound:
in fact the sound is preferable to dance to than on some of my oldies!.

Here in Nova Scotia, as you may well appreciate, Scottish country dancing
holds sway.
The interest that has bloomed in "re-enactment" activities in regard to
historical events,
has prompted the women involved to look to dancing which was done in those
diverse periods
of time for social purposes. From this has developed an interest in delving
into the past,
particularly in New England [which has a marvellous "dancing" history!]
because of what
dances came to Nova Scotia with the Loyalists in 1783.

Could not resist putting in my pennyworth!

Regards, John
Bedford, NS

> The list I had in mind is shown below - although I don't know how popular
> these are - but they seem to appear on a lot of lists:
>
> Apley House
> The Bishop
> Broom, the Bonny Bonny Broom
> The Black Nag
> Chelsea Reach
> Chestnut
> Childgrove
> Confesse
> Dargason
> Dick's Maggot
> The Dressed Ship
> Fourpence Halfpenny Farthing
> The Fandango
> Gathering Peascods
> Greensleeves and Yellow Lace
> Greenwich Park
> Grimstock
> The Guidman of Ballangigh
> The Health
>  Hey, Boys, Up Go We
> Hit and Miss
> The Hole in the Wall
> Hunsdon House
> If All the World were Paper
> The Indian Queen
> Jack's Maggot
> Jacob Hall's Jig
> Jenny Pluck Pears
> Juice of Barley
> Lilli Burlero
> Mad Robin
> Mage on a Cree
> Maid's Morris
> The Merry, Merry Milkmaids
> Mr Beveridge's Maggot
> Mr Isaac's Maggot
> Never Love Thee More
> Newcastle
>  Nonesuch
> The Old Mole
> Oranges and Lemons
> Parson's Farewell
> The Phoenix
> Picking up Sticks
> The Queen's Jig
> The Round
> Rufty Tufty
> Sellenger's Round
> The Shrewsbury Lasses
> Sion House
> Step Stately
> A Trip to Kilburn
> A Trip to Paris
> The Twenty Ninth of May
> Whirligig



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Archive-Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:15:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:15:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: mistakes
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Hey, gang,

I'm getting the list in Digest form these days, so forgive me if this
observation has already been made...

While all the observations that have been offered about what kind of help
is useful when one makes a mistake have been thoughtful and insightful,
I believe Bruce's intention was specifically NOT to elicit reminiscence and 
speculation  -- or even hard-won insights -- but to encourage us, as he put 
it, to notice exactly how we feel THE NEXT TIME we make a mistake.  If you 
go back and reread his questions, I think you'll see that what he's
interested 
in is not what you have come to believe during your long (or short) dancing
lives, but what you may discover that is unexpected.

Robin Hayden
(who is just as set in her ways as the rest of you,
but knows a Bruce question when she sees one)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 18:58:20 PST
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:58:48 -0500 (EST)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Right and Left
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I think it's a shame when an ECD leader has to call a simple
figure a "Mini Grand Right and Left" as I heard this afternoon,
but I guess it really has become necessary. Four people walking
around a square (half in each direction) by taking right hands and
left hands in alternation is a "Right and Left." When eight people
do it it's a "Grand Right and Left" ("grand" meaning "big").

Perhaps dancers who know what a Grand Right and Left is would be
confused if the figure that they are familiar with were not
somehow referenced in the terminology for the less familiar
(four-person) figure. But I'd like to believe that the future of
dancing and the plight of beginners would benefit from a simpler
terminology, not a more complicated and cross-referenced one.

Nice afternoon, though.  :)

[Given my writing style above, BTW, I don't think today is the day
to attempt the leader's $100 challenge. Ya hadda be there.]

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:03:41 PST
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:04:20 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Right and Left
To: ECD-AT-
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I've always thought referring to the concept of "Right and Left" was quite
helpful for new dancers.  Nearly every one has been introduced to the
"grand" right and left, and explaining the 4 changes as a smaller version
of same seems quite quick and likely to be grasped.  My experience confirms
that.

Quite often the ones who keep wanting to turn the wrong way all of a sudden
grok the whole concept when you show them the connection.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:58:31 PST
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 00:59:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
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On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Gene Murrow wrote:

[stuff snipped out regarding the description of the music to "Jack's
Health"]

  [BTW, this has
> become "an issue," as we decided to include this kind of information on the
> Boston Centre ECD recordings with Bare Necessities.  In cases where there
> can be ambiguity in notation of the tune, I've decided in favor of the
> structure of the dance, assuming leaders will be looking at dance
> directions, not the music.  Any opinions about this?  

I understand the point you are making, Gene, but it seems to me that it is
still the music that you are describing, and I think the situation comes
up a lot that the band is thinking AABB and the music is notated that way
even when the dance figures for A1 & A2 are quite different -- does that
mean you would list it, for example, as ABB?  Thinking that one purpose of
these recordings is to provide folks who don't have a good ECD band
available with a new source of danceable music to use, as well as
something callers can practice to, it may suit their purposes well enough
when they are using them instead of a band for dancing, but I can imagine
that it might make the transition to working with a real band just a tad
harder, because there might be more places where the caller's conception
of the musical structure differed from the bands, at least in terms of the
description used.  I think I would opt for the description which fits most
closely the thing being described, in this case, the music.

Alternatively, but at the cost of having a less compact, more cumbersome
description, you could include numbers of measures for each section:
either A16B8B8 or A8A8B8B8, or something like that.  For the pieces with
unusual lengths, that could be quite useful even if it is a bit cumbersome
-- Kelsterne Gardens would then catch your eye with A8A8B6B6, etc.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

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Archive-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:28:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 01:28:54 -0500
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[140.186.55.85]>
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Music is notated in specific ways.  If a melody is repeated exactly, with
no change in the ending, then it is twice the whichever music.  If the
melody is repeated but with a different cadential formula, changing the
modulation or resolving back to the tonic, then most of the time the way
ECD music is commonly notated at present, there is a double length
whichever music.  The concept of 1st and 2nd ending really applies but is
hardly ever used, since 32 bars ain't that much paper to write out, and is
a heck of a lot easier to sight read.

In the case of Jack's Health there are two As and one double length B.  In
the case of Jack's Health, the B is not even the same thing with two
different endings, it's really a continuous B section.  So a knowlegable
dance leader, who for English Dancing needs to be able to read music and
establish a tempo, often even determine a tempo when the dance is new to
the crowd and band, the only correct notation musically is AAB.  A good
dance leader does not need to be told how long the As and Bs are, since
s/he can read the music right there on the page and know, and since s/he
should have determined that kind of thing when preparing to present the
dance.

I join Julia in hoping that we will maintain high standards for leadership,
including that all leaders can read music and determine tempi, both for the
dancers and the band, and that leaders can tell when the band is wandering
from the set tempo.

And that leaders can present the dance coherently, whether it also in the
AAB form, or in (as in Jack's Health) AB form.



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:53:29 PST
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 22:55:27 -0800
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Jack's Health" notation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991031225527.007c68c0-AT-
oz.net>
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Emily Ferguson wrote:

>In the case of Jack's Health there are two As and one double length B.  In
>the case of Jack's Health, the B is not even the same thing with two
>different endings, it's really a continuous B section.  So a knowlegable
>dance leader, who for English Dancing needs to be able to read music and
>establish a tempo, often even determine a tempo when the dance is new to
>the crowd and band, the only correct notation musically is AAB.  

In other words "Two B or not two B, that is the question."

Victoria Bestock


Check out our WEB site, at   http://www.oz.net/~bestockp/
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