Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:39:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:35:25 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Email address, please..
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <199909010838_MC2-8325-26D8-AT-
compuserve.com>
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I tried to reach John Ramsay by email, but apparently have a wrong address.
Does anyone on this list have a current one for John?
Please email me. Thanks in advance

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny Budnick

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:50:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:49:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909011649.LAA19742-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hanny,
   John and Berni changed their address not too long ago.  Of course they
might have changed it again, but the address that I have is

johnberni-AT-
postnet.com

   I hope this is helpful.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:32:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:32:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e4796e92.24ff1194-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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please consider others privacy
please do not give out over this site others addresses, email addresses 
phone# etc.
please mail that specific info directly to that person
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:49:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:46:36 -0400
From: Michael and Caryn White <whites-AT-
eos.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005501bef4d4$3b9ad700$bc9585cd-AT-
whites>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here's what I have.

johnberni-AT-
postnet.com

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Hanny D. Budnick <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com <Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 8:36 AM
Subject: Email address, please..


I tried to reach John Ramsay by email, but apparently have a wrong address.
Does anyone on this list have a current one for John?
Please email me. Thanks in advance

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
/\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<   Hanny Budnick



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:58:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:56:33 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Email address, please..
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <199909021058_MC2-8346-E3B0-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Thanks to Jonathan and Mike for the prompt information! 
To "S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com" I'd like to say that this is not a chatroom where
handles are necessary! Most of us are not reluctant to put our REAL name to
our conversations, and, of course, our email address as part of our
messages makes a direct contact between list members possible. What are you
worried about?

Hanny 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:49:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: garyir-AT-
email.msn.com
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:49:17 -0800
From: gary irwin <garyir-AT-
email.msn.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000801bef57c$3ecb1900$47daffd0-AT-
default>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


-----Original Message-----
From: Hanny D. Budnick <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com <Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com>
Date: Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:00 AM
Subject: Email address, please..


Thanks to Jonathan and Mike for the prompt information!
To "S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com" I'd like to say that this is not a chatroom where
handles are necessary! Most of us are not reluctant to put our REAL name to
our conversations, and, of course, our email address as part of our
messages makes a direct contact between list members possible. What are you
worried about?

Hanny

i have no idea what this is about, care to enlighten me?



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 00:07:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 00:11:45 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Netherlands?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef5db$94c78820$3feaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

There's something that I've had a question about for a while, and I'll bet
there are people here who can tell me the answer.

There seems to be quite a lot of English country dancing in the Netherlands
and/or Belgium, and I'm wondering why.  Is it the result of one or two
enthusiasts who dragged the Dutch willy-nilly into the form, or is there
some historical connection between England and the Netherlands that led to a
tradition of ECD in the latter country?

On the other hand, maybe I'm mistaken and there really isn't that much ECD
there.  I just find it striking that there are posts to this list from (as
far as I can tell) no other European country.

Hoping that it's OK to turn this into Random Question Hour,

Marian Phillips

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 06:11:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:43 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Gerry Armstrong
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007800b3f54089a420-AT-
[140.186.62.200]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Found this on another list.  I thought some of you might know these folks
and might like to know about this.




Hi friends - I know this news will touch and sadden many of you - a
wonderful woman who gave Chicago folk a lot of its "soul" - K/*

FOLK SINGER LEFT A LASTING MELODY IN MANY HEARTS

 September 2, 1999

The tune "Gay Gordons" changed Marjorie Ann "Gerry" Breen's life on a hot
June night in 1952.

She was an aspiring 22-year-old Chicago folk singer and had been invited to
appear on a live performance program on radio station WFMT, then a very
obscure FM station that broadcast a hodgepodge of programs from studios in
a West Side hotel. Among the other performers that night was George
Armstrong, 25, a bagpiper who she later said struck her as a "glamorous
creature."

She was looking for an excuse to speak to him, and found it when at last he
played something she recognized--"Gay Gordons." She said to him, "I know
the dance that goes with that tune. Do you?"

He did. Armstrong put down his bagpipes, and, with both of them humming,
they danced Gay Gordons up and down the hotel hallway. Less than two years
later they were married.

And so began what many call "the first family of Chicago folk," a
partnership that both nurtured and produced traditional music for four
decades until George Armstrong's death in 1993.

Gerry Armstrong had a voice "of soaring purity," remembered Studs Terkel,
who often emceed shows in which she sang. "If you needed to cast someone to
sing the role of the Virgin Mary, it would have to be Gerry," he said.

The Armstrongs were never big box office nor did they sell millions of
records or write famous songs. Instead they collected, performed and
recorded the best of the old material and helped prevent the local scene
from straying too far from its roots during folk's commercial boomlet in
the late 1950s and early 60s.

"They were the keepers of the flame, the folk conscience of Chicago," said
former WFMT program director and folk-music host Norm Pellegrini, who
engineered their early recordings. These recordings include a 1961 album
titled "Simple Gifts," from a Shaker hymn that became their signature song.

They performed at the opening of the Old Town School of Folk Music in 1957
and guided the booking for the first University of Chicago Folk Festival in
1961--two institutions that also guarded tradition. Gerry added
storytelling to her performance repertoire and published several storybooks
for which George, an illustrator by trade, did the artwork.

"(Folk) was just sort of a hobby that gradually consumed our lives " Gerry
told local folklorist Paul Tyler in a 1990 interview, the tape of which is
punctuated frequently by her merry laugh.

"Their house (in Wilmette) was always full of music," said veteran singer
Art Thieme. "They were a real inspiration."

Several hundred of those who were inspired or otherwise touched by Gerry
Armstrong turned out Wednesday afternoon to say goodbye to her in a
"ceremony of joy" at what her daughter Rebecca Armstrong said was her
mother's "favorite spot on this green earth," the beach at Gillson Park in
Wilmette.

Armstrong, 69, died Sunday afternoon at home after a three-month illness.
The family has tentative plans for a public memorial concert on Sunday,
Oct. 31, at the Lake Street Church in Evanston.

She died "her face aglow with triumphant passion," according to a poem
written Monday and read at Wednesday's service by Maureen Flannery, a
friend who attended the all-night singing party that followed Armstrong's
death.

Armstrong's other daughter, Jennifer, a professional folk singer now based
in Boston, sang an emotional tribute. So did Jennifer's grown
daughters--Susannah and Georgia Rose--who have recently released their own
CD, a recording that demonstrates the Armstrong family tradition is in no
danger of fading away.

In the end, the gathering sent Gerry Armstrong off on the same note on
which she came in, figuratively speaking. On a hot September afternoon in
1999, Jennifer Armstrong picked up the bagpipes and, just as her late
father had 47 years earlier, began to play "Gay Gordons."

And as she played the song that started it all, she began to march. The
procession followed her several hundred yards out to a pier that juts into
Lake Michigan.

Rebecca Armstrong stood on a high rock and faced everyone.

"A blessing on all of you and on my mother's spirit," she said, casting a
flower into the waves. "May it sing on throughout eternity."

Then she, and everyone else, began to sing.


                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 06:37:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:35:39 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Gerry Armstrong
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7cf969f.043-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

emily;
  never heard of her, but it had me in tears anyway. we should all
touch as many people as she did!
  sharon

>>> "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> 09/03 9:10 AM >>>
Found this on another list.  I thought some of you might know these
folks
and might like to know about this.




Hi friends - I know this news will touch and sadden many of you - a
wonderful woman who gave Chicago folk a lot of its "soul" - K/*

FOLK SINGER LEFT A LASTING MELODY IN MANY HEARTS

 September 2, 1999

The tune "Gay Gordons" changed Marjorie Ann "Gerry" Breen's life on a
hot
June night in 1952.

She was an aspiring 22-year-old Chicago folk singer and had been
invited to
appear on a live performance program on radio station WFMT, then a
very
obscure FM station that broadcast a hodgepodge of programs from
studios in
a West Side hotel. Among the other performers that night was George
Armstrong, 25, a bagpiper who she later said struck her as a
"glamorous
creature."

She was looking for an excuse to speak to him, and found it when at
last he
played something she recognized--"Gay Gordons." She said to him, "I
know
the dance that goes with that tune. Do you?"

He did. Armstrong put down his bagpipes, and, with both of them
humming,
they danced Gay Gordons up and down the hotel hallway. Less than two
years
later they were married.

And so began what many call "the first family of Chicago folk," a
partnership that both nurtured and produced traditional music for
four
decades until George Armstrong's death in 1993.

Gerry Armstrong had a voice "of soaring purity," remembered Studs
Terkel,
who often emceed shows in which she sang. "If you needed to cast
someone to
sing the role of the Virgin Mary, it would have to be Gerry," he
said.

The Armstrongs were never big box office nor did they sell millions
of
records or write famous songs. Instead they collected, performed and
recorded the best of the old material and helped prevent the local
scene
from straying too far from its roots during folk's commercial boomlet
in
the late 1950s and early 60s.

"They were the keepers of the flame, the folk conscience of Chicago,"
said
former WFMT program director and folk-music host Norm Pellegrini,
who
engineered their early recordings. These recordings include a 1961
album
titled "Simple Gifts," from a Shaker hymn that became their signature
song.

They performed at the opening of the Old Town School of Folk Music in
1957
and guided the booking for the first University of Chicago Folk
Festival in
1961--two institutions that also guarded tradition. Gerry added
storytelling to her performance repertoire and published several
storybooks
for which George, an illustrator by trade, did the artwork.

"(Folk) was just sort of a hobby that gradually consumed our lives "
Gerry
told local folklorist Paul Tyler in a 1990 interview, the tape of
which is
punctuated frequently by her merry laugh.

"Their house (in Wilmette) was always full of music," said veteran
singer
Art Thieme. "They were a real inspiration."

Several hundred of those who were inspired or otherwise touched by
Gerry
Armstrong turned out Wednesday afternoon to say goodbye to her in a
"ceremony of joy" at what her daughter Rebecca Armstrong said was
her
mother's "favorite spot on this green earth," the beach at Gillson
Park in
Wilmette.

Armstrong, 69, died Sunday afternoon at home after a three-month
illness.
The family has tentative plans for a public memorial concert on
Sunday,
Oct. 31, at the Lake Street Church in Evanston.

She died "her face aglow with triumphant passion," according to a
poem
written Monday and read at Wednesday's service by Maureen Flannery,
a
friend who attended the all-night singing party that followed
Armstrong's
death.

Armstrong's other daughter, Jennifer, a professional folk singer now
based
in Boston, sang an emotional tribute. So did Jennifer's grown
daughters--Susannah and Georgia Rose--who have recently released
their own
CD, a recording that demonstrates the Armstrong family tradition is
in no
danger of fading away.

In the end, the gathering sent Gerry Armstrong off on the same note
on
which she came in, figuratively speaking. On a hot September
afternoon in
1999, Jennifer Armstrong picked up the bagpipes and, just as her
late
father had 47 years earlier, began to play "Gay Gordons."

And as she played the song that started it all, she began to march.
The
procession followed her several hundred yards out to a pier that juts
into
Lake Michigan.

Rebecca Armstrong stood on a high rock and faced everyone.

"A blessing on all of you and on my mother's spirit," she said,
casting a
flower into the waves. "May it sing on throughout eternity."

Then she, and everyone else, began to sing.


                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod,
Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com 
                             Photographer, English Country Dance
leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and
mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:03:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 12:01:23 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Gerry Armstrong
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199909031202_MC2-837A-962E-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Thanks to Emily Ferguson for the information about Gerry Armstrong. I had
heard of her illness recently from old friends Sandy and Caroline Paton,
owners of Folk Legacy records, who recorded the 1961 Album. Though I have
played the album (as well as the Golden Ring Album on which the Armstrongs
also appear) many times I only had the pleasure of hearing them(and meeting
them) in person once. To any and all who knew the family-please pass on my
sympathy. I am saddened by the loss.

Ben Stein
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 23:37:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 23:41:33 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Welsh Country Dance in SF Bay Area?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef6a0$87312de0$LocalHost-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Is there anyone who teaches Welsh country dancing in the Bay Area?  While
nosing around in the archive I found a discussion of Welsh dancing, but it
looked like the teachers were on the East Coast.

Marian Phillips
San Francisco

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:26:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 14:26:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990904212657.15438.rocketmail-AT-
send205.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



--- "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com> wrote:
> Thanks to Jonathan and Mike for the prompt information! 
> To "S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com" I'd like to say that this is not a chatroom
> where
> handles are necessary! Most of us are not reluctant to put our REAL
> name to
> our conversations, and, of course, our email address as part of our
> messages makes a direct contact between list members possible. What
> are you
> worried about?
> 
> Hanny 


Not only is this a list by subscription, not a chatroom--but many of
us are friends. The elusive S2LINEN has made me think: I can put a
face with probably 2/3 of the contributers to the list during the
year I've been on it. Many of them I have met at Pinewoods.

Just got back from English week there a few hours ago. It was a great
week. Program Director Gene Murrow added pre-Playford to the program,
with Dorrie Olsen teaching. Fried Herman was there, and Gene added
his own magic to the two classes I took from him. A great find for
the staff was Bob Archer, an energetic young Englishman, who brought
a lot of different and less "Playford-ish" material to us. His
"Archer's Targets" focused for 2 classes on dances in odd formations
for odd numbers of dancers, frequently not-partnered. That Australian
dance for 9 called "The Prime Minister" was a big hit. Frank
Attanasio, who is in charge of the weather, did a great job--it was
cool. It was great to see friends from around the country.

Lyrl

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:20:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:11:04 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Back from Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205500b3f828b76d06-AT-
[206.72.193.168]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I second Lyrl's account of our week at Pinewoods - nice folks, good 
weather and good dancing all around.  I took a rather laid back 
approach to the week taking only two classes and doing some sewing, 
but enjoyed myself pretty well!

Interesting mix of old (pre-Playford) and new dances, callers and 
non-ECD on the  program, and if all else failed there was always your 
choice of ponds for a dip.

Thanks to Bob Archer for the wonderful rants and energetic dances 
during the week - a pleasure to meet you in person too.

When I'm a little more recovered and unpacked, I've got a few topics 
for discussion here about English Country Dance.  In the meantime, a 
few of you at camp said you were working on your Top 50 list so get 
to it!

Gene - would it be possible to share the results of the balloting 
that resulted in Thursday and Friday night dances here?  I'd be 
curious to hear the full range of dances that were suggested, 
although I was so happy that Morpeth got danced I didn't really care 
about the rest. Oh all right - yes it was good that Nonesuch and 
Fandango got done too - what's a week without Nonesuch? ;-)

Mary Beth <-- feet UP
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 09:31:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:42:13 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance in SF Bay Area?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990904114213.007ae930-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 23:41 03/09/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Is there anyone who teaches Welsh country dancing in the Bay Area? 

Sorry, this is not an answer to your question, as I'm on the other side of
the Atlantic.

I recently came across a CD of Welsh country dancing music with
instructions. Until then, I had no idea such a thing even existed. Now that
I have listened to the recording and looked at the figures, I fail to see
any difference between Wcd and Ecd. Obviously, there must be subtle
differences in the style that did not transpire through the writen word.
Must one be able to read also the instructions in Welsh to be able to find
the real flavour of these dances?

I'd very much like to be enlightened, should any of you know the answer,
if such information is possible over the ether.
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:18:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:16:25 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD musicians
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199909051416_MC2-83A8-A12C-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_x5v3ZjSbg+qoz6XN8qqNrg)"

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Hi John,

I'm attaching, as a Microsoft Word document, the chapter from my book
"English Dance Leadership Training in Music" dealing with "working with
musicians."   Perhaps you'll find it useful for your Toronto project!

Hope you and Anne are well..  we all just returned from English Week at
Pinewoods.  Good time, though we all missed Peter Redgate.

Best wishes,

Gene

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--Boundary_(ID_x5v3ZjSbg+qoz6XN8qqNrg)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:54:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 11:58:58 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance in SF Bay Area?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef7d0$b5974300$d3edadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear Martin,

The only information I have to go on is from the thread in the ECD archive
(started Dec.
16, 1997, and going into January 98), and it sounds as if Welsh dancing may
have had the same relationship to ECD as Scottish does to ECD -- similar
kinds of dances, different style (I know almost nothing about Scottish
dance, by the way, so if there are any other differences, someone please
correct me).

As I understand it, the Methodists pretty much stamped out
Welsh country dancing in the 1800s, but the Welsh Folk Dance Society has
managed to piece together a repertoire from a number of sources.  These
would be:

Twmpath dances (barn dances)
Fair dances (more complex competition dances done by teams)
Playford dances with Welsh names (done in the "Welsh" style, wherever they
got that from)
some Pat Shaw dances

Their Fair dances seem to come from two sources:  a letter written in 1784
by William Jones, describing 3 Llangadfan Fair dances in detail; and 9 other
Fair dances remembered by Mrs. Margretta Thomas of Nantgarw, dating from the
1880s.  One other actual traditional source is the Llanover Reel, which was
danced by the household of Lady Llanover up until 1887.

So it sounds like a situation where the English have hundreds of dances from
traditional or historical sources, and the Scots have hundreds of dances
from traditional or historical sources, and the Welsh have 13.

The thread in the ECD archive mentioned two dance instructors "certified" by
the Welsh Folk Dance Society:  one was S. Frick of Newark, Delaware, and the
other was Mavis Williams, who lives in Swansea and came to Pinewoods to
teach many years ago.

S. Frick (who supplied all of the information above) also said that the
Welsh Folk Dance Society has a videotape showing 12 traditional dances being
danced (probably by competition teams; it sounded from her description of
the Welsh dance scene that most of the action in Wales is with these teams
who compete with each other at fairs and such).

Who put out the CD you found?

Marian Phillips
San Francisco



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:18:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:11:25 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205506b3f8679a3355-AT-
[206.72.193.152]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

English Week at Pinewoods and some discussions that happened there 
got me thinking about dance camp, classes and campers/students. Let 
me preface my ramblings by saying that none of what follows is meant 
as a criticism of English Week at Pinewoods (past or present) or any 
program of CDSS!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of classes that are graded 
by experience level of the students?  How does the class giver ensure 
the correct placement of students? How is a student given to know 
what skills are needed in a particular class?

Thinking about these questions led me to consider presenting classes 
where the subject matter was "graded" rather than the students, but 
that still left the question of placing the right student in the 
right learning situation.

While I was rolling that around in my head, I began to see the larger 
question looming - what is the purpose/goal of (the organization) 
offering the classes and how does it compare with the purpose/goal of 
the students?

For instance, one general purpose of the organization might be to 
offer popular classes thereby increasing overall enrollment.  That's 
very valid, especially if it means you can pay the bills while 
meeting other goals!

Specifically though, what is the purpose of offering graded classes 
(beginning, intermediate, experienced)?

*  To bring everyone up to a certain skill level?

*  To present material that will be within the ability of each level? 
Or to present material that is slightly challenging to each level?

What are possible goals of "experienced" dancer level classes?

*  To allow very accomplished dancers the opportunity to do little 
done or little known dances which are outside the abilities of most 
weekly/monthly dance settings?

*  To introduce less well-known dances to dance leaders, hoping 
they'll work their way into the repetoire?

*  To maintain infrequently done dances as part of the general 
consciousness of the dance population?

*  To introduce new dances and choreographers to dance leaders for 
dispersal to dance communities?

As I went on pondering about this, I started thinking about the 
dances themselves.  Most "hard" dances are not hard solely because of 
the figures involved. Most dances use a slim core of movements, and 
most of these are easily taught and learned.  What then makes these 
dances more difficult to dance?

The "hard" dances may have a unique combination of figures - a 
sequence of movements not found commonly in other dances.  Or they 
may be unforgiving in the arrangement of their figures - no recovery 
time built in to the sequence of figures. They may be difficult in 
the progression of dancers perhaps because of how everyone's moving 
at critical points in the dance.

I throw this in because I think it would be impossible to say - "you 
must be able to do all of these figures" as a requirement for an 
"experienced" level class.

On the other end of the graded class spectrum, what goals are being 
set in beginning level classes for learning the figures and styling 
associated with English Country Dance? And what is the purpose of 
intermediate classes?

I don't pretend to have answers for all these questions! And these 
questions could fit many non-dance class/workshop settings with minor 
changes of terminology. Perhaps classes at dance camps are not set up 
with particular goals in mind and perhaps people who go to them don't 
have particular goals either.

What I observe, however, is some dissatisfaction in different 
factions and some problems.

Experienced dancers shake their heads and mutter about other 
students/dancers who aren't able to do the dances well (by their 
standards) or keep up with the speed of the teaching.  Some people 
feel that they are held back by others who can't keep up or whose 
confusion creates confusion for others. Other dancers, who are able 
to learn the dances at the pace they're taught, may still feel rather 
pushed around by the dancers who already know the dances.

I think most people would agree that "experienced" isn't intended to 
mean how many years one has been dancing, but in the absence of hard 
criteria and some mechanism of placement, it can come to mean just 
that.

Meanwhile, people don't go to "beginning" or even "intermediate" 
classes because they see them as below their skill level (true or 
not). Those classes are often lacking in attendance which makes them 
harder to run (can't do square formations if you only have 6 or 10 
people in the class for instance).  It also sends a possible, albeit 
unintended, message that if you're in that class you're in a dinky 
and somehow inferior minority. (Note that these people paid the same 
money that everyone else did to attend!)

The one time I witnessed a situation where people were assigned to 
classes, there was much muttering and some yowling!  Most of this 
came from people who were placed in the intermediate classes. Surely 
this was a mistake because they should be in the advanced class! 
Meanwhile the beginners class (which I was in, btw) had the 
apparently normal 10-12 people - nowhere near a third or even a 
quarter of the camp population!

One might say that we plunk our money and vacation time down to go to 
dance camp in order to have fun!  That might relieve the pressure of 
developing goals for each class, but still begs the question of why 
"experienced" level classes vs "beginning" level classes are offered. 
Why not have one or two hour  dances during the day then, perhaps on 
a particular theme, and do away with the notion of classes altogether?

*My* purpose for writing about this is to ask - what other models are 
there or could there be for creating goals for dance classes and for 
organizing students?

I will repeat that none of this is meant as a criticism of anyone's 
class or of CDSS's programs!  My own experience with dance camps is 
limited to CDSS's English week at Pinewoods (with a week of 
Eng/American years ago).  Also, I hope any resulting discussion won't 
fall into general grumbling about people taking the "wrong" class!

I'd love to hear about other workshop-centered settings and from 
other "campers" as well as organizers!

Mary Beth Goodman <--feet up!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:28:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:26:17 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Oops! An apology.
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199909052026_MC2-83BA-A2AF-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

My apologies to the ECD list subscribers for accidentally posting a note
(with long formatted attachment no less-- a real no-no!) intended for John
Patcai directly.

I'd appreciate it if folks would not further duplicate or disseminate the
attachment, a chapter from a resource book I've written, without checking
with me first.

Thanks.

Gene Murrow
ECD Dancer, Caller, and  Musician still asleep at the switch after English
Week at Pinewoods..

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:51:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:49:13 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004801bef80a$6fa1f900$82e1490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <v04205506b3f8679a3355-AT-
[206.72.193.152]>

Most of my experience has been with Scottish country dancing but many of the
same issues occur there.  Some random thoughts:
- too often assigning people to graded classes becomes based on a subjective
standard set by the teacher (where personalities and teacher goals - which
are not always the same as that of attendees - become the norm) - this
causes friction and can lead to fierce infighting if you have two dancers of
equal ability and one is put in intermediate and one in advanced (for
example because the teacher wants to train dancers for demos and one dancer
owns a kilt and the other doesn't)
- at the very least standards should be clearly stated in writing and in
detail - anyone who feels discontented should have the opportunity first to
discuss it with the teacher (or whoever is making the decision ) and if
still dissatisfied should be able to have their complaint considered by an
objective process - consensus of other dancers attending or who are members
etc.
- personally I'm more interested in the social aspect in the sense of
"community" (everyone meeting everyone and dancing together) than in
development of dance skills per se.  What I've tried that seems to work
reasonably well (realizing there are no perfect solutions and you'll never
please everyone) - is to alternate easy dances with more difficult dances -
asking that the new dancers watch first the non-easy dances - then we'll put
them on a second time for anyone who was watching who wants to try them -
this satisfies the advanced dancers who get to dance it with other advanced
dancers - it satisfies the newer dancers since if after they watch it they
can try it (and most experienced dancers are then OK about repeating it with
a less experienced dancer and since it's a dance they like they enjoy
getting to do it again) - it also allows all the dancers to get to know one
another and the new dancers to have a chance to dance with experienced
dancers (one of the best ways to learn in my opinion).
- also if you divide on skill levels - you wind up with subgroups (which is
not much help if you're trying to develop leadership in the group - newer
dancers may contain many good potential leaders for the future)
- there's always also the problem of the dancer who always thinks he/she is
better than they are - I would find it more helpful to have a detailed
description of the class plan including dances and figures to be taught and
for each class other than a beginning class to have a qualification time
(with the procedure explained ahead of time) when each figure is announced
and have it danced and those who can't do it are then automatically assigned
to the lower level class - but this should be followed regardless of WHO it
is - since another problem is advanced dancers who have danced for many
years but whose skills slide for whatever
- beginner, intermediate and advanced sound too much like grade school and
different terminology might help - perhaps by rating both figures and dances
by difficulty levels and having Class 1 with certain basic figures/ dances
etc. -
- borrowing from other traditions - dancers could be given a certificate
upon successfully completing each additional level of proficiency - with the
certificate good for a certain number of years - and then having to be
recertified - and then state which certificate level is needed for each
class - again with a process for handling complaints (to avoid anyone
getting powerful enough to issue certificates for subjective reasons - i.e.
to their own friends and not to those they dislike for whatever reason)

Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 4:11 PM
Subject: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes


> English Week at Pinewoods and some discussions that happened there
> got me thinking about dance camp, classes and campers/students. Let
> me preface my ramblings by saying that none of what follows is meant
> as a criticism of English Week at Pinewoods (past or present) or any
> program of CDSS!
>
> What are the advantages and disadvantages of classes that are graded
> by experience level of the students?  How does the class giver ensure
> the correct placement of students? How is a student given to know
> what skills are needed in a particular class?
>
> Thinking about these questions led me to consider presenting classes
> where the subject matter was "graded" rather than the students, but
> that still left the question of placing the right student in the
> right learning situation.
>
> While I was rolling that around in my head, I began to see the larger
> question looming - what is the purpose/goal of (the organization)
> offering the classes and how does it compare with the purpose/goal of
> the students?
>
> For instance, one general purpose of the organization might be to
> offer popular classes thereby increasing overall enrollment.  That's
> very valid, especially if it means you can pay the bills while
> meeting other goals!
>
> Specifically though, what is the purpose of offering graded classes
> (beginning, intermediate, experienced)?
>
> *  To bring everyone up to a certain skill level?
>
> *  To present material that will be within the ability of each level?
> Or to present material that is slightly challenging to each level?
>
> What are possible goals of "experienced" dancer level classes?
>
> *  To allow very accomplished dancers the opportunity to do little
> done or little known dances which are outside the abilities of most
> weekly/monthly dance settings?
>
> *  To introduce less well-known dances to dance leaders, hoping
> they'll work their way into the repetoire?
>
> *  To maintain infrequently done dances as part of the general
> consciousness of the dance population?
>
> *  To introduce new dances and choreographers to dance leaders for
> dispersal to dance communities?
>
> As I went on pondering about this, I started thinking about the
> dances themselves.  Most "hard" dances are not hard solely because of
> the figures involved. Most dances use a slim core of movements, and
> most of these are easily taught and learned.  What then makes these
> dances more difficult to dance?
>
> The "hard" dances may have a unique combination of figures - a
> sequence of movements not found commonly in other dances.  Or they
> may be unforgiving in the arrangement of their figures - no recovery
> time built in to the sequence of figures. They may be difficult in
> the progression of dancers perhaps because of how everyone's moving
> at critical points in the dance.
>
> I throw this in because I think it would be impossible to say - "you
> must be able to do all of these figures" as a requirement for an
> "experienced" level class.
>
> On the other end of the graded class spectrum, what goals are being
> set in beginning level classes for learning the figures and styling
> associated with English Country Dance? And what is the purpose of
> intermediate classes?
>
> I don't pretend to have answers for all these questions! And these
> questions could fit many non-dance class/workshop settings with minor
> changes of terminology. Perhaps classes at dance camps are not set up
> with particular goals in mind and perhaps people who go to them don't
> have particular goals either.
>
> What I observe, however, is some dissatisfaction in different
> factions and some problems.
>
> Experienced dancers shake their heads and mutter about other
> students/dancers who aren't able to do the dances well (by their
> standards) or keep up with the speed of the teaching.  Some people
> feel that they are held back by others who can't keep up or whose
> confusion creates confusion for others. Other dancers, who are able
> to learn the dances at the pace they're taught, may still feel rather
> pushed around by the dancers who already know the dances.
>
> I think most people would agree that "experienced" isn't intended to
> mean how many years one has been dancing, but in the absence of hard
> criteria and some mechanism of placement, it can come to mean just
> that.
>
> Meanwhile, people don't go to "beginning" or even "intermediate"
> classes because they see them as below their skill level (true or
> not). Those classes are often lacking in attendance which makes them
> harder to run (can't do square formations if you only have 6 or 10
> people in the class for instance).  It also sends a possible, albeit
> unintended, message that if you're in that class you're in a dinky
> and somehow inferior minority. (Note that these people paid the same
> money that everyone else did to attend!)
>
> The one time I witnessed a situation where people were assigned to
> classes, there was much muttering and some yowling!  Most of this
> came from people who were placed in the intermediate classes. Surely
> this was a mistake because they should be in the advanced class!
> Meanwhile the beginners class (which I was in, btw) had the
> apparently normal 10-12 people - nowhere near a third or even a
> quarter of the camp population!
>
> One might say that we plunk our money and vacation time down to go to
> dance camp in order to have fun!  That might relieve the pressure of
> developing goals for each class, but still begs the question of why
> "experienced" level classes vs "beginning" level classes are offered.
> Why not have one or two hour  dances during the day then, perhaps on
> a particular theme, and do away with the notion of classes altogether?
>
> *My* purpose for writing about this is to ask - what other models are
> there or could there be for creating goals for dance classes and for
> organizing students?
>
> I will repeat that none of this is meant as a criticism of anyone's
> class or of CDSS's programs!  My own experience with dance camps is
> limited to CDSS's English week at Pinewoods (with a week of
> Eng/American years ago).  Also, I hope any resulting discussion won't
> fall into general grumbling about people taking the "wrong" class!
>
> I'd love to hear about other workshop-centered settings and from
> other "campers" as well as organizers!
>
> Mary Beth Goodman <--feet up!
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:29:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:39:39 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Re: Oops! An apology.
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Gene Murrow wrote:

> I'd appreciate it if folks would not further duplicate or disseminate the
> attachment, a chapter from a resource book I've written, without checking
> with me first.

Gene -

Your secret is safe with me (and lots of others on this list who could
not open the attachment)--but is this resource book only available to
those who've taken your class or is it for sale to the not-so-general
public?

Inquiring minds (albeit weary bodies) want to know...

Mary (Too Tired To Be Funny Except In The Figurative Sense) Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:32:52 PST
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 09:42:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Sun, 5 Sep 1999, Mary Beth Goodman wrote:

> What are the advantages and disadvantages of classes that are graded 
> by experience level of the students?  How does the class giver ensure 
> the correct placement of students? How is a student given to know 
> what skills are needed in a particular class?

> . . . what is the purpose/goal of (the organization) 
> offering the classes and how does it compare with the purpose/goal of 
> the students?

Why don't you think of these questions from the point of view of the
dancer (learner, attendee)?

It doesn't matter what you are teaching, if the learner an adult, the
learner is an adult learner.  That learner will come to a class, a dance,
a social occasion with specific purposes.  Your job as a teacher,
facilitator of learning, or organization, is to find out what the learner
wants to learn and then help the learner to achieve his/her learning.*

Perhaps the first step is to start planning "your" classes differently.  

The first step is to say to yourself, "It's THEIR class."

Changes what you teach and how.  And how you label the class.  Or sort
people out between classes.

Whoops, my soapbox broke.

PS  The * is because I was reminded of my experience while taking a course
towards my M Ed in Adult Learning:  

We all sat in a circle, teacher included.  Teacher didn't introduce
himself, but was made obvious by the large pile of books by his chair.
Nothing happened.  We sat there.  Finally one of the students turned to
him and said in an exasperated tone of voice,  "What are you going to
teach us?"   He replied, "What do you want to learn?"

It's a great story for a teacher to remember when planning a class.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:21:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:20:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Email address, please..
To: ECD-AT-
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For those who missed the beginning:

Hanny Budnick posted a request on the list for the e-mail address
of a certain dancer. Two people replied on the list with the
requested information. Perhaps many more responded off-list. 

S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com then responded with:

 >please consider others privacy
 >please do not give out over this site others addresses, email
 >addresses phone# etc.
 >please mail that specific info directly to that person

Hanny and Lyrl both criticized this point of view, saying (my own
paraphrase) that since many of us sign our e-mails and this forum
is limited to subscribers, why the fuss?

I have to say that I agree with S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com (I think I know
who it is, but I'm not saying...)

That many sign their names to their posts does not imply that all
would like their addresses broadcast. Anyone (not just
subscribers) may search the archives, and many of us have met
people dancing that we would rather not hear from by e-mail.

The answer to Hanny's original question was not one of general
interest. It should have been answered off-list.

Of course, as Gene so articulately demonstrated today, intended
private communication sometimes accidentally finds its way onto
lists. Can't be helped.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:14:06 +0000
From: Stephanie Judy/David Stewart <sjdks-AT-
wkpowerlink.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Back from Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 07:00 09/06/99 -0800, Mary Beth Goodman wrote:

>I'd love to hear about other workshop-centered settings and from 
>other "campers" as well as organizers!

Mary Beth--We run a chamber music retreat that attracts a range of
abilities. We try to make it very clear in our brochure and "first contact"
materials that more experienced players are expected to help less
experienced players. During the week, most of the ensembles we organize are
mixed levels--some experienced and some inexperienced players in each
group. We actively try to *discourage* very experienced people from
attending if they only want to play advanced repertoire with other
experienced players. It's not that we disapprove of this activity, but we
feel that those opportunities are available elsewhere, and we have made a
conscious decision to follow a different model.

Some chamber music players are very happy helping their less experienced
colleagues, and some consider it a bore. We cater to the former. 

I don't know if this would be applicable to a dance camp or not (though I
think many experienced dancers certainly help the less experienced at
dances all through the year). However, it works for us in a camp setting.

Stephanie Judy
Argenta, B.C.
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:50:11 -0400
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Mary Beth's insights have left us much to ponder.  

I personally prefer a graded method of classes, to encourage beginner
students and to allow experienced folks to dance at their level.  In the
past few years I have twice found myself a beginner in a class of
experienced dancers.  One was a Beginner Morris class which was filled
with Morris dancers who wanted to learn a new tradition.  I found myself
sinking a few times, but stuck it out because I knew I had every right to
be there.  Had the course been billed as anything other than beginner
level, I would have dropped out and missed a thrilling experience.  

The second time I found myself in this position, the course was not
identified by level.  However, the instructor wanted to teach an
experienced class (or so it seemed) and frightened away most of the
beginners.  In this case it would have been helpful to have the class
billed as Advanced so the rest of us would not have wasted our efforts
while holding back the rest of the class.  

The term "Advanced" gives me the impression that I'll be able to dance in
that class without care.  Too many times I have found myself in a
position of having to direct or teach dance (not specifically ECD) when I
don't consider myself an instructor.  The idea of going to a workshop
merely to DANCE is an exciting prospect.

Having said that, I have been dancing English country for roughly five
years, and went off to Pinewoods with full intention of taking Gene's
Advanced class.  Yet, I found myself in Bob Archer's Intermediate class
Sunday morning.  I headed in that direction because Bob had said he
intended to teach dance technique.  What a great thing!  His class was
FUN, lively and very informative.  Frankly, with no intended offense to
anyone, he taught things that nearly all of us could use, regardless of
level.  Yet some people specifically said they did not belong in that
class because it was "Intermediate"!!  What a shame!  The "Intermediate"
label should not keep people away (although in this case, Gene's
"Advanced" class was also draw).  I wonder what would have happened if
the two classes had not been offered at the same time...Or if English
week were extended to two weeks...:-)

Helen Tuzio
(sore but smiling)
New York 




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:47:33 PST
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:47:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I started folk dancing in the 1950s.  At that time one of my Scottish and
general folk dance teachers was Hugh Thurston, who wrote 'Scotland's
Dances,' a companion to Douglas Kennedy's book.  He had a copy of the only
Welsh dance published at the time.  The dancers who did this dance used
the English country dance style of the 1950s to do the dance.

It's sad when a social art form is squelched by the cuurent mores.  For
example, Scottish dancing really get started until the 18th century
because John Knox's influence beat John Playford's ppublications to
Scotland by at least a half century.  Fortunately, the highlanders kept to
themselves and continues their dancing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 17:12:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 23:29:38 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <001201bef8b7$500103e0$1e998cd4-AT-
trevormo>
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I hope this gets through to ECD, as, for the last 2-3 weeks my wonderful
Email provider has decided to bounce all messages from the mailing list
for some strange reason.  Anyway, having downloaded the archive and
seeing discussion on Welsh Folk Dancing may I add the following
comments?

1)   Sorry Marrian, I have taught Welsh Folk Dancing (at places like
Whitby & Sidmouth Folk Festivals) but as I now live in Yorkshire (again)
I guess I'm not close enough!

2)  Cwmdeithas Ddawns Werin Cymru  (Welsh Folk Dance Society) now have a
website at
welshfolkdance.org.uk
The site is bi-lingual, and lists all the publications it has for sale,
ranging from leaflets, books and music through to tapes, C.Ds and a
video (with a 2nd almost ready to published I have heard).

3)  I feel I may be able to give some comments on Welsh dance as,
although being a Yorkshireman, I lived for almost 20 years in South
Wales, dancing with such display teams as Cardiff University, Swansea
University (who poached me to make up their team for a tour of the
States in 1970), Cardiff Folk Dancers and Dawnswyr Nantgarw (which kept
changing its name from one unpronounceable name to another each time it
changed practice venues!).

4)  My understanding/thoughts on Welsh dance (and these are my own
personal feelings) are:-

a)  Most of the wording of the dances could give the same impression
that they are English  dance style.  However, when danced, they are a
completely different style which is not explained in any notation - this
can only be seen and felt.  Obviously the music is different, which
gives rise to the step danced lots of the time being a low smooth
running  step as a 1 2 3 hop (as opposed to the English  hop 1 2 3).
This step is continued most of the time, even when waiting on the spot,
so the dancers hardly ever stop dancing.  Often, at the end of a phrase,
3 "heel steps" are often done to suit the phrasing, which I haven't seen
in ECD.  Welsh dancers are also more exuberant with their hand
movements, and there are other differences in style too numerous to
detail here.

b)  Twmpath dances are the same as our Barn Dances/Ceilidh
dances/Village hops or whatever you want to call them.  The other dances
described by Marian Phillips are the dances that tend to be done by
display teams or Welsh dance enthusiasts.  These are danced as display
at fetes etc., but do not forget the Eisteddfods - especially the
National Eisteddfod (as opposed to the International Eisteddfod at
Llangollen) where many of these dances are still danced competitively.

c)  The "fair" dances are actually from the "Nantgarw Dances" (Nantgarw
is a village just North of Caerphilly & Cardiff) of which 6 have been
published.  Some of these are like Morris dances, and the rest are
display dances - the published books describe where and why it is
thought these dances were danced.  There is minimal instruction on
style, steps and even the figures in the books - these were learnt and
passed on by the display teams, which is the how I got to know them.

d)  The "Llangadfan Dances" are the closest the Welsh got to "Playford"
style dances - it is even thought that they may have been English dances
which were taken to Llangadfan (another village in South Wales) and then
danced there without outside influences - hence the style and addition
of "Roundo's" at the end of and even between figures. It is these dances
that Pat Shaw (known as "Padrig Farfog" in Wales) based his well known
"Ty Coch Caerdydd" (Red House of Cardiff) and "Sawdl Y Fuwch" (The
Cowslip) which are now often danced in the "English Way"!

e)  "Llanover Reel" and "Rhif Wyth" are both from and where both danced
at Llanover Hall. (Llanover being somewhere near Abergavenny)

5)  Much of the Welsh dancing was lost due to Church intervention.  It
was mainly due to Lois Blake who helped start the Welsh Folk Dance
Society, that Welsh dancing did not die out altogether.  Together with
others, including Pat Shaw, she managed to "save" Welsh dance.  Although
ECD's tend to complain that they "grabbed" any tune or dance with a
Welsh sounding name and danced it, thank goodness they did!  As I said
earlier, they are danced differently so most people may not even know it
is the same dance, as the style is quite different.  Welsh dances are
still being composed, so the tradition is not dying.

6)  Welsh Clog Dance.  Even though Welsh social dance was almost lost,
Welsh clog dancing managed to come through unscathed.  This has a style
of its own, being flamboyant, of a heel/toe style and uses props such as
besom brooms and candles - but that again is another subject. (Clog
dancing was passed down to me in the 60's, with a direct link back to
the 50's, and I am still teaching this at festivals as I do not want it
to die out just through lack of enthusiasm in Wales)

Anyway, I hope this gives a bit more light on the subject, if it finds
its way through.  If anyone would like to Email me direct with any
queries or discussions (as this is really an English  Country Dance
mailing list I understand, and also because of the problem of me
receiving messages from ECD) I hope I can help, or know a person who
can!

Trevor Monson










_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:59:05 PST
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 00:02:04 -0500
From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Back from Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
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gloria>
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>Some chamber music players are very happy helping their less
>experienced
>colleagues, and some consider it a bore. We cater to the former.

>I don't know if this would be applicable to a dance camp or not
(though I
>think many experienced dancers certainly help the less
experienced at
>dances all through the year). However, it works for us in a camp
setting.

I am an experienced, competent contra dancer [not so experienced
at ECD], who loves to help other dancers, especially beginners.
I drag them onto the floor, keep them smiling, and feel all warm
and fuzzy when I see them improving.

With this said, I enjoy having some time where I'm not having to
be concerned about those still learning the basics.  Maybe where
I'm the weak link in the set.

Labeling classes beginner, intermediate, and advanced doesn't
work.  Too many people translate these as undesirable, barely
tolerable, and the elete.

I don't know if a wordsmith could come up with more palatable
labels that would encourage accurate self-selection.

Gloria Krusemeyer
Northfield, MN

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 04:21:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:20:09 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7d4bd03.014-AT-
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mary beth et al.;
  hmm. a coupla years ago buffalo gap finally put the "beginner"
english directly opposite the "experienced" english in order to sort
people out better. so i was in ***'s experienced class, found i didn't
want to deal with all that pattern and strenuous intellectual whatever
at 9 a.m., and joined the enthusiastic, low-stress, wonderful
non-experienced group. there was lots of oldy-moldy stuff mixed with
interesting new stuff.  it was wonderful! BG and pinewoods are very
different, of course, but the easier class was every bit as satisfying
for moi...
  sharon "but then again i can forget a dance within 5 minutes of
learning it" mckinley, and not an official beginner at any government
agency


>>> Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> 09/05 5:11 PM >>>
English Week at Pinewoods and some discussions that happened there 
got me thinking about dance camp, classes and campers/students. Let 
me preface my ramblings by saying that none of what follows is meant

as a criticism of English Week at Pinewoods (past or present) or any

program of CDSS!

What are the advantages and disadvantages of classes that are graded

by experience level of the students?  How does the class giver ensure

the correct placement of students? How is a student given to know 
what skills are needed in a particular class?

Thinking about these questions led me to consider presenting classes

where the subject matter was "graded" rather than the students, but 
that still left the question of placing the right student in the 
right learning situation.

While I was rolling that around in my head, I began to see the larger

question looming - what is the purpose/goal of (the organization) 
offering the classes and how does it compare with the purpose/goal of

the students?

For instance, one general purpose of the organization might be to 
offer popular classes thereby increasing overall enrollment.  That's

very valid, especially if it means you can pay the bills while 
meeting other goals!

Specifically though, what is the purpose of offering graded classes 
(beginning, intermediate, experienced)?

*  To bring everyone up to a certain skill level?

*  To present material that will be within the ability of each level?

Or to present material that is slightly challenging to each level?

What are possible goals of "experienced" dancer level classes?

*  To allow very accomplished dancers the opportunity to do little 
done or little known dances which are outside the abilities of most 
weekly/monthly dance settings?

*  To introduce less well-known dances to dance leaders, hoping 
they'll work their way into the repetoire?

*  To maintain infrequently done dances as part of the general 
consciousness of the dance population?

*  To introduce new dances and choreographers to dance leaders for 
dispersal to dance communities?

As I went on pondering about this, I started thinking about the 
dances themselves.  Most "hard" dances are not hard solely because of

the figures involved. Most dances use a slim core of movements, and 
most of these are easily taught and learned.  What then makes these 
dances more difficult to dance?

The "hard" dances may have a unique combination of figures - a 
sequence of movements not found commonly in other dances.  Or they 
may be unforgiving in the arrangement of their figures - no recovery

time built in to the sequence of figures. They may be difficult in 
the progression of dancers perhaps because of how everyone's moving 
at critical points in the dance.

I throw this in because I think it would be impossible to say - "you

must be able to do all of these figures" as a requirement for an 
"experienced" level class.

On the other end of the graded class spectrum, what goals are being 
set in beginning level classes for learning the figures and styling 
associated with English Country Dance? And what is the purpose of 
intermediate classes?

I don't pretend to have answers for all these questions! And these 
questions could fit many non-dance class/workshop settings with minor

changes of terminology. Perhaps classes at dance camps are not set up

with particular goals in mind and perhaps people who go to them don't

have particular goals either.

What I observe, however, is some dissatisfaction in different 
factions and some problems.

Experienced dancers shake their heads and mutter about other 
students/dancers who aren't able to do the dances well (by their 
standards) or keep up with the speed of the teaching.  Some people 
feel that they are held back by others who can't keep up or whose 
confusion creates confusion for others. Other dancers, who are able 
to learn the dances at the pace they're taught, may still feel rather

pushed around by the dancers who already know the dances.

I think most people would agree that "experienced" isn't intended to

mean how many years one has been dancing, but in the absence of hard

criteria and some mechanism of placement, it can come to mean just 
that.

Meanwhile, people don't go to "beginning" or even "intermediate" 
classes because they see them as below their skill level (true or 
not). Those classes are often lacking in attendance which makes them

harder to run (can't do square formations if you only have 6 or 10 
people in the class for instance).  It also sends a possible, albeit

unintended, message that if you're in that class you're in a dinky 
and somehow inferior minority. (Note that these people paid the same

money that everyone else did to attend!)

The one time I witnessed a situation where people were assigned to 
classes, there was much muttering and some yowling!  Most of this 
came from people who were placed in the intermediate classes. Surely

this was a mistake because they should be in the advanced class! 
Meanwhile the beginners class (which I was in, btw) had the 
apparently normal 10-12 people - nowhere near a third or even a 
quarter of the camp population!

One might say that we plunk our money and vacation time down to go to

dance camp in order to have fun!  That might relieve the pressure of

developing goals for each class, but still begs the question of why 
"experienced" level classes vs "beginning" level classes are offered.

Why not have one or two hour  dances during the day then, perhaps on

a particular theme, and do away with the notion of classes
altogether?

*My* purpose for writing about this is to ask - what other models are

there or could there be for creating goals for dance classes and for

organizing students?

I will repeat that none of this is meant as a criticism of anyone's 
class or of CDSS's programs!  My own experience with dance camps is 
limited to CDSS's English week at Pinewoods (with a week of 
Eng/American years ago).  Also, I hope any resulting discussion won't

fall into general grumbling about people taking the "wrong" class!

I'd love to hear about other workshop-centered settings and from 
other "campers" as well as organizers!

Mary Beth Goodman <--feet up!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 06:38:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:38:21 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: more on labels
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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loc.gov>
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more on labels:
  one interesting thing about the "graded" ECD classes at buffalo gap
was that the non-expert class wasn't labeled as such. i seem to recall
scott higgs called it ECD for poets, or some such. the other class was
ECD for experts. pinewoods has more classes and levels, of course, but
if the topmost class has "experts" or "challenging" in it, and the
others have some non-label, might that not work better? class
descriptions could say something like "ideal for learning styling," or
"requires expert skill level" (which on an advanced class is fair
enuf). this all becomes small print, the word "beginner" need not be
applied, and the stigma some attach to not being at the top avoided.
  sharon "that's my quota of cute disclaimers for one day" mckinley,
and not caring to apply stigmata (stigmae? stigmas?) at any government
agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 07:17:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:30:25 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: more on labels
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990907102618.00ca8810-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
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The year our True Brit tea party had a Peter Pan theme, we replaced the X =
eXperienced symbol with a pair of crossbones, and, for the hardest
sessions, with a skull and crossbones, the latter symbol being translated
as "for eXperienced dancers who use their heads."  Truth in labeling?
Sharon Green

At 09:38 AM 9/7/99 -0400, Sharon A McKinley wrote:
>more on labels:
>  one interesting thing about the "graded" ECD classes at buffalo gap
>was that the non-expert class wasn't labeled as such. i seem to recall
>scott higgs called it ECD for poets, or some such. the other class was
>ECD for experts. pinewoods has more classes and levels, of course, but
>if the topmost class has "experts" or "challenging" in it, and the
>others have some non-label, might that not work better? class
>descriptions could say something like "ideal for learning styling," or
>"requires expert skill level" (which on an advanced class is fair
>enuf). this all becomes small print, the word "beginner" need not be
>applied, and the stigma some attach to not being at the top avoided.
>  sharon "that's my quota of cute disclaimers for one day" mckinley,
>and not caring to apply stigmata (stigmae? stigmas?) at any government
>agency

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:00:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:00:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: need dance sources
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909071500.KAA14270-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

   I'm looking for the sources for a couple of dances I'd like to try this
fall.  I assume these will be in books available from CDSS, but the question
is "which books?"  The first dance is The Wood Duck, by Fried Herman.  I
actually have the instructions and one of our band members has the music, but
I thought I would get her book to have it on hand and for the other dances
in it.  The other dance I'm looking for is Freeford Gardens by Kathryn and
David Wright.

   Any pointers to the sources for these dances would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:31:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:30:49 -0400
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English Dance Weekend in Pittsburgh, September 24 to 26.
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4.1.19990907113027.00a0d580-AT-
209.183.254.10>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_hIGjKj9eJfzigUJjJdnnQw)"


--Boundary_(ID_hIGjKj9eJfzigUJjJdnnQw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

The following is being posted on behalf of Ralph Bangs, VP, CDSS of Pittsburgh.

Thanks also to Dorolyn Smith for cluing us in. (I've cut & pasted from a couple
messages so excuse choppiness, etc.)

A flyer might be available on-line as Ralph promised to send a Word version of
it.  If I can .pdf-ise it, I'll post for our mutual benefit; check in the next
couple of days at www.just.net/~roger for a link.

-- Roger -- still on a high from ECD week at Pinewoods
_  _  ________________ _  ____________________________________________
 /__) _,___,  _   _   /_)  Contra dancing fanatic, English country
/ \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado.  Email: Roger-AT-
just.net
         _/_               www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html
_______ (/____________________________________________________________


ENGLISH-CONTRA DANCE WEEKEND

Primarily an English Country Dance event. Friday night: $7.

Each English event: $10. Hospitality available.

Caller and Dance Instructor, Sue Dupre of New Jersey
Band: Amarillis of Pittsburgh

Sept. 24-26 in Pittsburgh

     Friday 8-11 p.m., Contra at Edgewood Club
     Saturday 1-4, 8-11 and Sunday 1-4 English dances and workshops
     at the Swisshelm Park Community Center

For more information contact Ralph Bangs at rbangs+-AT-
pitt.edu or at 412
624-3856 (evenings).

--Boundary_(ID_hIGjKj9eJfzigUJjJdnnQw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html>
The following is being posted on behalf of Ralph Bangs, VP, CDSS of
Pittsburgh.<br>
<br>
Thanks also to Dorolyn Smith for cluing us in. (I've cut &amp; pasted
from a couple messages so excuse choppiness, etc.)<br>
<br>
A flyer might be available on-line as Ralph promised to send a Word
version of it.&nbsp; If I can .pdf-ise it, I'll post for our mutual
benefit; check in the next couple of days at
<a href="http://www.just.net/~roger" eudora="autourl">www.just.net/~roger</a>
for a link.<br>
<br>
-- <i>Roger -- still on a high from ECD week at Pinewoods<br>
</i>_&nbsp; _&nbsp; ________________ _&nbsp; ____________________________________________<br>
&nbsp;/__) _,___,&nbsp; _&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp;&nbsp; /_)&nbsp; Contra dancing fanatic, English country<br>
/ \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado.&nbsp; Email: Roger-AT-
just.net<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; _/_&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html" eudora="autourl">www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html</a><br>
_______ (/____________________________________________________________<br>
<br>
<br>
ENGLISH-CONTRA DANCE WEEKEND<br>
<br>
Primarily an English Country Dance event. Friday night: $7.<br>
<br>
Each English event: $10. Hospitality available.<br>
<br>
Caller and Dance Instructor, Sue Dupre of New Jersey<br>
Band: Amarillis of Pittsburgh<br>
<br>
Sept. 24-26 in Pittsburgh<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Friday 8-11 p.m., Contra at Edgewood Club<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday 1-4, 8-11 and Sunday 1-4 English dances and workshops<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; at the Swisshelm Park Community Center<br>
<br>
For more information contact Ralph Bangs at rbangs+-AT-
pitt.edu or at 412<br>
624-3856 (evenings).<br>
</html>

--Boundary_(ID_hIGjKj9eJfzigUJjJdnnQw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:20:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 12:18:32 -0700
From: "Michael J. O'Connor" <mjoconor-AT-
erols.com>
Subject: Re: need dance sources
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37D56508.4735-AT-
erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <199909071500.KAA14270-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>

Jonathan Sivier wrote:
> 
>    I'm looking for the sources for a couple of dances I'd like to try 
> this fall.  I assume these will be in books available from CDSS, but 
> the question is "which books?"  The first dance is The Wood Duck, by Fried Herman.

	The Wood Duck is most recently available in Fried's Ease and Elegance
(1995), also worth acquiring for its introductory 30 pages of text
discussing various topics relating to ECD, including notes for dancers,
style points, notes for teachers and a page on the ECD band.  The dance
was earlier published in her Pinewoods Fund Collection (1980), which may
no longer be available.  You may be able to contact Fried directly as an
alternate source for E & E.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:52:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:04:35 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dance sources
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990907122925.00ad6a30-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Wood Duck is in Fried's Ease & Elegance, which you can get from her if CDSS
doesn't have it.  Get it soon, because there aren't many left.  [She's in
the CDSS directory.]
Freeford Garden's directions are in the Not Quite Playford booklet that
goes with the West Kirby Band's tape.  They were also once available [with
music] on a single sheet--it may be hard to track down.  
Good luck with the dances--they're perennial favorites around here.

Sharon Green
 

At 10:00 AM 9/7/99 -0500, Jonathan Sivier wrote:
>   I'm looking for the sources for a couple of dances I'd like to try this
>fall.  I assume these will be in books available from CDSS, but the question
>is "which books?"  The first dance is The Wood Duck, by Fried Herman.  I
>actually have the instructions and one of our band members has the music, but
>I thought I would get her book to have it on hand and for the other dances
>in it.  The other dance I'm looking for is Freeford Gardens by Kathryn and
>David Wright.
>
>   Any pointers to the sources for these dances would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>Jonathan
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
>|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
>|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
>|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
>|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
>|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
>|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
>|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 09:59:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:49:04 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: General Question on Dances
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37D54200.9FAECE3D-AT-
accesscable.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi, Folk:

This is my first approach to make use of your knowledge.

I am coaching some dancers in Nova Scotia and I am anxious to find out
what dances were being DONE in New York and other physical places south
or north from where the Loyalist settlers came.

It is easy to assume that most of the dances MIGHT be Playford. But were
there Italian and French dances in their repertoires?

Comments on the above would be welcomed.

Regards, John
Bedford, Nova Scotia



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:10:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:49:46 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: labels. (was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990907184946.007ae250-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 00:02 07/09/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Labeling classes beginner, intermediate, and advanced doesn't
>work. 
>I don't know if a wordsmith could come up with ...

How about:
Promising,
Succeeding,
Worn out.

?

Which is my way of agreeing -- labels just don't work.
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:55:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:53:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: labels. (was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.9909071442360.87630-100000-AT-
ocelot.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, M Sheffield wrote:

> At 00:02 07/09/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> >Labeling classes beginner, intermediate, and advanced doesn't
> >work. 
> >I don't know if a wordsmith could come up with ...
> 
> How about:
> Promising,
> Succeeding,
> Worn out.

Those decriptions would turn me off also.  they are from the point of view
of the teacher assessing the class.  what I want is a description that
tells me, the attendee which class I want to attend.

Advanced was OK thirty years ago but I'm not longer interested in proving
to myself that my technique isn't what it used to be.  Experienced
attracts me more because it sounds like not a lot of footwork and some
interesting dances.

I prefer one or two word descriptions that tell me what the class will be
focused on.  Maybe even a brief paragraph after the title to let me kmow
I've guessed correctly. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:18:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:22:40 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef96e$bc0deaa0$c0eaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Yeow!  Thank you, Trevor!  I also took a look at the website -- it's great,
and links up with another site for a group called Dawnswyr Delyn that has a
"teach yourself a Welsh dance" section -- with MIDI file music for two
tunes, "Powell's Fancy" and "The Witch's Dream."

It was hard not to start making a list of things I wanted to buy from the
Society -- CDs, videos, books, pamphlets . . . .

Marian


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:22:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Beer" <jbintercultural-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dance sources
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990907212100.16071.rocketmail-AT-
web601.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Jonathan,

I can send you a copy of Freeford Gardens if no one at EFDSS
knows how to get hold of the original. Mine still has "10P"
stamped in the corner. The note at the bottom says that
Wetenhall Cooper Ltd, the developers of Freeford Gardens (a
suburban housing estate) sponsored the publication of the dance.

--Jenny Beer

PS. ignore the above email address. 
My real one is jbeer-AT-
culture-at-work.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 07:55:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:55:46 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
From: Brad Sayler <brad-AT-
virginia.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Back From Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9909081046.A-AT-
wl_win98.config.mail.virginia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hi folks,

I'm a firm believer that dance class names should describe 
the dances that will be taught, not the dancers they 
intend to attract. I try to include terms like challenging, 
less challenging, or easy along with some words that 
describe the focus or source of the dances; Pat Shaw, 
historical, traditional and the like.

Gloria Krusemeyer wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 00:02:04 -0500
> From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
> Subject: Re: Back from Pinewoods
> Message-ID: <00b401bef8ee$2136d8a0$3e22a3d1-AT-
gloria>
> 
> 
> I am an experienced, competent contra dancer [not so experienced
> at ECD], who loves to help other dancers, especially beginners.
> I drag them onto the floor, keep them smiling, and feel all warm
> and fuzzy when I see them improving.
> 
> With this said, I enjoy having some time where I'm not having to
> be concerned about those still learning the basics.  Maybe where
> I'm the weak link in the set.
> 
> Labeling classes beginner, intermediate, and advanced doesn't
> work.  Too many people translate these as undesirable, barely
> tolerable, and the elete.
> 
> I don't know if a wordsmith could come up with more palatable
> labels that would encourage accurate self-selection.
> 
> Gloria Krusemeyer
> Northfield, MN
> 


Brad Sayler
University of Virginia
Civil Engineering
Charlottesville, VA 22908
(804) 982-2764
brad-AT-
virginia.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 09:28:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:44:26 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990908084426.007b4e30-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Someone asked for the title of a Welsh CD that I mentioned -- have to reply
to the list, as I inadvertently deleted the message before noting the
address, sorry.

It's called "Cicio'r Nenbren", SCDC 2094,
issued in 1994 by Sain 
(in Llandwrog, Caernarfon, Gwynedd LL54 5TG, Wales)
in collaboration with the Welsh Country Dance Society.
It contains music for most of the styles that Trevor mentioned in his long
informative message, with instructions in Welsh and English for 20 dances.
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:24:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:24:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: General Question on Dances
To: English Folk Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990908141207.162B-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

You're talking about the late 1700's, right?  If I am right in supposing
that the people who moved to Canada as a result of the American revolution
were mostly upper-class, then you would expect them to have danced
French-style dances: minuets and contradances in style of Fieullet's
manual.  What influence, if any, this would have had on dance in Nova
Scotia is unknown to me.  The same dances would have already been
fashionable in Canada.  (By the 1700's Italy had ceased to have any
influence on dance fashions.)  Are you trying to recreate historical
dances for some event, or are you curious about the history of country
dances in Nova Scotia?

--Mary Railing

On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, John Wood wrote:

> Hi, Folk:
> 
> This is my first approach to make use of your knowledge.
> 
> I am coaching some dancers in Nova Scotia and I am anxious to find out
> what dances were being DONE in New York and other physical places south
> or north from where the Loyalist settlers came.
> 
> It is easy to assume that most of the dances MIGHT be Playford. But were
> there Italian and French dances in their repertoires?
> 
> Comments on the above would be welcomed.
> 
> Regards, John
> Bedford, Nova Scotia
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 13:58:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:59:37 -0400
From: "L. vosteen" <lvosteen-AT-
widomaker.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Back from Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110703b3fae22ea1c3-AT-
[209.96.178.39]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Gloria wrote (in part):


>I am an experienced, competent contra dancer [not so experienced
>at ECD], who loves to help other dancers, .....

>Labeling classes beginner, intermediate, and advanced doesn't
>work.  Too many people translate these as undesirable, barely
>tolerable, and the elete.
>
>I don't know if a wordsmith could come up with more palatable
>labels that would encourage accurate self-selection.
>
>Gloria Krusemeyer
>Northfield, MN


The word "experience" is popping up in a number of comments about "grading"
dancers, so why not use it? For example: inexperienced (meaning haven't
done it but want to learn), limited experience (I know how to set & turn
single and do rights and lefts, but I want to raise my comfort level), and
experienced (I can take anything you throw at me, so there!).

However, my "experience" has been that even people who count themselves
amoung the experienced may never learn to _dance_! And, at the other end, I
have had the pleasure of working with people who have never done ECD but
have danced, perhaps ballet or ballroom, and can comfortably do Miss de
Jersey's by the end of one evening of dancing.

I definitely like the idea of expanding on the definition of a class by
explaining what the objectives of the class will be, as Sharon McKinley
suggested. Then the participant should have a pretty good idea what to
expect.

I recall being at Pinewoods a few years back when Helene Cornelius taught a
class for "experienced" dancers and Brad Foster was doing a class in
parallel for "less experienced" dancers (I'm not sure what the titles of
the classes really were). Helene started the class with a very challenging
dance, probably to give some of the dancers a reality check. At the end of
the dance she remarked something to the effect "There's still time for some
of you to get into Brad's class." That became the catch phrase of the week
whenever anyone in the class (especially an obviously experienced dancer)
would get a little mixed up.

Mary Beth raised a lot of thought-provoking questions about the purposes of
graded classes. She asked: "what is the purpose of offering graded classes
(beginning, intermediate, experienced)?

*  To bring everyone up to a certain skill level?

*  To present material that will be within the ability of each level?
Or to present material that is slightly challenging to each level?

What are possible goals of "experienced" dancer level classes?

*  To allow very accomplished dancers the opportunity to do little
done or little known dances which are outside the abilities of most
weekly/monthly dance settings?

*  To introduce less well-known dances to dance leaders, hoping
they'll work their way into the repetoire?

*  To maintain infrequently done dances as part of the general
consciousness of the dance population?

*  To introduce new dances and choreographers to dance leaders for
dispersal to dance communities?"

My respose is, "Perhaps some of all of the above." I attend camps to learn
new (to me, at least) dances, new interpretations of "old" dances, or to
have the instructor make me aware of a special nuance in a dance that I
never realized was there. Also I go for the shear enjoyment of dancing with
people I don't get to see too often and dancing to live music by a whole
bunch of outstanding dance musicians.

But again, as Sharon said, a difinitive staement by the instructor of what
their plans or goals for the class are would help the participant select
where they want to be. Assigning people to a particular class, based on a
few questions in a camp application form, is begging for dissention - as
Mary Beth noted from her experience. If a class turns out to have less than
a critical mass to be effective, the camp directors should combine it with
another and the instructors should be versatile enough to adjust their
"curriculum" so everyone can benefit, i.e. "have fun."

Lou


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 15:38:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:38:57 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: General Question on Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37D6E580.26F6417D-AT-
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Hi, Mary. Thank you for your interest.

Mary Railing wrote:

> You're talking about the late 1700's, right?  If I am right in supposing
> that the people who moved to Canada as a result of the American revolution
> were mostly upper-class, then you would expect them to have danced
> French-style dances: minuets and contradances in style of Fieullet's
> manual.  What influence, if any, this would have had on dance in Nova
> Scotia is unknown to me.  The same dances would have already been
> fashionable in Canada.  (By the 1700's Italy had ceased to have any
> influence on dance fashions.)  Are you trying to recreate historical
> dances for some event, or are you curious about the history of country
> dances in Nova Scotia?

A bit of both, really. The group in Shelburne -- a Loyalist enclave -- are
from a re-enactment group, the Prince of Wales American Regiment. On certain
occasions during the year they are involved in various historical events in
the area. I'm not really trying to recreate historical dances perse, but I do
not want to include any figures or complete dances that came on the scene
AFTER 1786 when many of the original Loyalist settlers had moved on to other
parts of the country.

So that leads to my curiosity as to what dances were being done in Nova Scotia
in that period.

One of the dancers in Shelburne has told me of two dances of which she knows
were being danced in that area, together with the music. But, so far, nothing
concrete has emerged. I'm pursuing her: properly, of course!

Nice to talk to you.

Regards, John

================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:19:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: General Question on Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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John --

Remember that country dances propagated far and wide.  Dance manuals got
around _a lot_, so dances could be popular in more than one place at a time.
(Popular in New York after 1786 doesn't necessarily equal 'not done anywhere
but New York after 1786.'  This wasn't village folk-dancing that you only 
picked up if you lived in that village.)

That said, there's plenty of good stuff published or at least notated
before the end of the Revolution.  And if you're doing demo/display stuff,
cotillions can be very showy, and those are around from at least the 1750s.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 04:59:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:58:37 -0300
From: John Wood <johnwood-AT-
accesscable.net>
Subject: Re: General Question on Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37D7A0ED.F564F10E-AT-
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SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Hi, Alan:

> Remember that country dances propagated far and wide.  Dance manuals got
> around _a lot_, so dances could be popular in more than one place at a time.
> (Popular in New York after 1786 doesn't necessarily equal 'not done anywhere
> but New York after 1786.'  This wasn't village folk-dancing that you only
> picked up if you lived in that village.)

I appreciate very much your reply. Thank you.

Regards, John

================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:21:06 -0400
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <Roger-AT-
just.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: List of Dances at Pinewoods English Week: A Work in Progress
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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209.183.254.10>
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--Boundary_(ID_tV3zl7L4DL7tMj0YRspKDQ)
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Plans are afoot to post to the web a list of dances for the various 
sessions at Pinewoods English week.  Having received several requests for 
info related to this project, I decided to post a status report.

It is proving to be quite a task to recover the info needed to put together 
a comprehensive list!  Susan Murrow kindly assembled a list of dances 
taught in the various workshops AND has put the data together in digital 
form . . . a lot of work.  Thanks, Susan.  I also received a list of dances 
nominated for request night, with their rankings, thanks to Steve Howe and 
Mary Kay Friday.

It is proving problematic to get a lists for the evening dances.  Queries 
are out but if any of you have info, please reply to me directly (not to 
the list).  It may be that some of the lists, nicely lettered by Warren 
Andersen, were sold at auction.  If a buyer has them, I'd appreciate 
getting that info.

Where to find: Steve Howe has arranged for CDSS to keep this info on their 
web server.  We will post the url to this list and probably cc it to E-week 
attenders via Steve's Email list.

I can't end a post about English week without saying how great a week it 
was.  The dancing was marvelous.  Camp life is best at Pinewoods: great 
facilities and staff.  But most of all, getting to know dancers, callers 
and musicians on a more intimate basis sets dance-camps apart from weekly 
dances, where folks come and dance and leave (especially on work-week 
nights).  Thank you fellow campers (staff included) for making English week 
at Pinewoods such a special event.

Cheers,



-- Roger
_  _  ________________ _  ____________________________________________
  /__) _,___,  _   _   /_)  Contra dancing fanatic, English country
/ \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado.  Email: Roger-AT-
just.net
          _/_               www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html
_______ (/____________________________________________________________

--Boundary_(ID_tV3zl7L4DL7tMj0YRspKDQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<html><div>Plans are afoot to post to the web a list of dances for the
various sessions at Pinewoods English week.&nbsp; Having received several
requests for info related to this project, I decided to post a status
report.</div>
<br>
<div>It is proving to be quite a task to recover the info needed to put
together a comprehensive list!&nbsp; Susan Murrow kindly assembled a list
of dances taught in the various workshops AND has put the data together
in digital form . . . a lot of work.&nbsp; Thanks, Susan.&nbsp; I also
received a list of dances nominated for request night, with their
rankings, thanks to Steve Howe and Mary Kay Friday.</div>
<br>
<div>It is proving problematic to get a lists for the evening
dances.&nbsp; Queries are out but if any of you have info, please reply
to me directly (not to the list).&nbsp; It may be that some of the lists,
nicely lettered by Warren Andersen, were sold at auction.&nbsp; If a
buyer has them, I'd appreciate getting that info.</div>
<br>
<div>Where to find: Steve Howe has arranged for CDSS to keep this info on
their web server.&nbsp; We will post the url to this list and probably cc
it to E-week attenders via Steve's Email list.</div>
<br>
<div>I can't end a post about English week without saying how great a
week it was.&nbsp; The dancing was marvelous.&nbsp; Camp life is best at
Pinewoods: great facilities and staff.&nbsp; But most of all, getting to
know dancers, callers and musicians on a more intimate basis sets
dance-camps apart from weekly dances, where folks come and dance and
leave (especially on work-week nights).&nbsp; Thank you fellow campers
(staff included) for making English week at Pinewoods such a special
event.</div>
<br>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<br>
<br>

<br>
-- <i>Roger<br>
</i>_&nbsp; _&nbsp; ________________ _&nbsp;
____________________________________________<br>
&nbsp;/__) _,___,&nbsp; _&nbsp;&nbsp; _&nbsp;&nbsp; /_)&nbsp; Contra
dancing fanatic, English country<br>
/ \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado.&nbsp; Email:
Roger-AT-
just.net<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
_/_&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html" eudora="autourl">www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html</a><br>
_______
(/____________________________________________________________</html>

--Boundary_(ID_tV3zl7L4DL7tMj0YRspKDQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:15:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:20:41 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909092014.NAA23688-AT-
wolfenet.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Helen Tuzio wrote:

> Having said that, I have been dancing English country for roughly five
> years, and went off to Pinewoods with full intention of taking Gene's
> Advanced class.  Yet, I found myself in Bob Archer's Intermediate class
> Sunday morning.  I headed in that direction because Bob had said he
> intended to teach dance technique.  What a great thing!  His class was
> FUN, lively and very informative.  Frankly, with no intended offense to
> anyone, he taught things that nearly all of us could use, regardless of
> level.  Yet some people specifically said they did not belong in that
> class because it was "Intermediate"!!  What a shame!  The "Intermediate"
> label should not keep people away (although in this case, Gene's
> "Advanced" class was also draw).  I wonder what would have happened if
> the two classes had not been offered at the same time...Or if English
> week were extended to two weeks...:-)

I have a confession to make Helen (so please don't tell anyone else 
:-) ). I would probably have taught a very similar class had it been 
labelled "advanced" rather than "intermediate". I don't really know 
how I would run different "intermediate" and "advanced" classes, 
good dancing techniques are good dancing techniques, whatever 
level someone is at.

I think we're in danger of simply saying that an advanced dancer is 
one who is capable of doing certain difficult dances or moves 
(shades of the Modern Western Square Dance movement here) 
rather than someone who has good dancing technique. I've danced 
with many people who were beginners to ECD (and therefore didn't 
know all of the moves) but were still marvellous dancers.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:15:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:20:41 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909092015.NAA23155-AT-
wolfenet.com>
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This was something that struck me on Friday night of Pinewoods' 
English week. A lot of the recently composed English dances we 
had been doing all week came across to me as being very generic. 
Take an average tune that hasn't been used before, put some 
combination of turns, casts, circular heys and setting to it and 
voila, a new dance, but one that was utterly forgettable.

I rather expect to be out on a limb with this one - for a number of 
reasons I am unwilling to trust my judgement about this feeling 
which is why I'm asking for other comments. I'd also like to make it 
clear that there are a lot of recently composed English dances 
which I think are wonderful, not at all generic and that really add 
something to the repertoire, I am certainly not trying to knock 
recently composed dances in general or any dance composer in 
particular.

Bob




----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:15:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:20:41 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909092014.NAA24164-AT-
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Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net> wrote:

[ lots of terrific stuff that I've snipped to save space ]


I've been wondering about the purpose of workshops and classes 
for some time now and, as a result, have changed some of the 
material I present and the way I present it.

Mary Beth wrote:
> Why not have one or two hour  dances during the day then, 
perhaps on 
> a particular theme, and do away with the notion of classes 
altogether?

This seems to have become common at festivals in the UK over the 
past few years - sessions that are described as classes or 
workshops but are actually just a mini-dance on a theme (and I 
must take my share of the blame, I have run plenty of workshops 
that were really just mini-dances). I have been trying to get away 
from this recently and run classes that are more about dancing 
than dances, some people love this, some hate it.

I had some complaints after the first two of my "English Country - 
intermediate" classes at Pinewoods' English / American week, 
basically from people who just wanted to do dances - other people 
said that they enjoyed the classes and asked for extra sessions to 
explore the ideas I'd been putting forward (I have a pet theory that 
one way of looking about dancing is that you have to be in a certain 
place by a certain time and have developed some drills to practice 
this).

I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?" 
where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between 
English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it 
can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from. 
(Side note, anyone who is ever tempted to do "The Fandango" to 
contra reels, please don't - it is unbelievably horrible. I knew it 
wasn't going to work well but I was shocked by how dreadful it 
turned out). Again, some people enjoyed the class, others hated it 
(I must confess to not being overly taken with it, it was the first 
time I'd run it and I will have to rethink it if I ever decide to do it 
again).

Someone made the point that classes are run for the benefit of the 
people attending them - I'd agree with this entirely, however since 
different people have different needs / wants / expectations it is 
pretty much impossible to meet them all. Should class / dance 
leaders be purely concerned with keeping the people who attend 
their classes happy? Which people? The majority? The loudest?

Do dance leaders have a wider responsibility, maybe to some 
mysterious entity called "the community"? I had several 
conversations with people at Pinewoods along the lines of:

 "isn't it a shame that contra dances now are all about duple minor 
improper contras each containing a partner swing and a corner 
swing, everyone equal, everyone moving - why no chestnuts, why 
no squares?"

I would like to put forward a theory that something similar is 
happening in the ECD movement (I'll be making another posting on 
the subject of "generic" ECD). The Thursday night request slot at 
English week was enormously overbalanced in favour of triple time 
dances, despite a _lot_ of ballot rigging that went on at every stage 
of the process (err... allegedly your honour). Should it be the dance 
leader's job to pander to the masses (emotive or what :-) ) or to 
feed them the dance equivalent of cod-liver oil?

Hmm, it's not late at night, I'm not drunk but I'm still rambling quite 
effectively. I'll finish off with something a little more constructive:

Would anyone like to share the best workshop / class they ever 
went to and reveal what made it so good for them. I have two to 
submit:

Sidmouth beginners dance workshop led by Brenda Godrich.
This was a terrific session that would have been of benefit to 
almost everyone. Brenda did "back to basics" on every move and 
taught them very effectively. There was an emphasis on good 
dance technique to improve the enjoyment of the dance for 
everyone in the group.

Sidmouth "dances from the Beggar's Opera" workshop led by 
Andrew Shaw.
Andrew is a terrific caller and researcher, the workshop was fun but 
also very informative - he gave a lot of background information 
which helped me to put the dances in context. His description of 
the marketing techniques used for the Beggar's Opera was quite an 
eye opener.

Just to finish up, it was wonderful to meet so many familiar names 
from the list at Pinewoods, I am just sorry I didn't get as much time 
as I wanted to chat to you all.


Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:20:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:20:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <762ed8e6.25097e90-AT-
aol.com>
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In a message dated 9/9/99 8:20:44 PM, you wrote:

<<A lot of the recently composed English dances we 
had been doing all week came across to me as being very generic. >>

I wasn't at English Week, but the subject of "generic English dances" is 
interesting. One person's generic dance is another's favorite, it seems, and 
I find more "old" dances to be in that category than recently composed 
dances. My personal candidates for generic dances are Mount Hills and 
Freeford Gardens. And I recall that someone listed Freeford Gardens as  
"local favorite" or some such term just a few days ago. To me these both have 
forgettable tunes, and forgettable moves in uninteresting orders, with no 
interesting interactions with anyone, and nothing at all to recommend them. 
There's no accounting for taste. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:26:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:28:53 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: fandango
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b19b3fdd452b04b-AT-
[155.99.169.139]>
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>(Side note, anyone who is ever tempted to do "The Fandango" to
>contra reels, please don't - it is unbelievably horrible. I knew it
>wasn't going to work well but I was shocked by how dreadful it
>turned out).

What was so bad, Bob?  Was it that the turns and casts and lead-up are too
leisurely for contra music?  Or was it simply that you are so used to doing
Fandango to Fandango's tune that anything else is unthinkable?

>I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
>where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
>English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
>can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.

Fandango again - I once taught Fandango to a group of Scottish dancers.
Should have been easy for them, as every move is found in many Scottish
dances.  They had terrible trouble with timing and style, and in fact
barely got through the dance.  I don't _think_ it was just me, as other
dances, less similar to what they were used to, went much better.

The style is all in the music, I think.  The figures may be the same but
the way you do them is dictated by the music.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:43:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JFRPUVEMSI91VWFY-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Hmm.

I think we should establish a distinction between 'glossary' dances and 
'generic' dances.  A 'glossary' dance, as far as I'm concerned, is made
out of standard figures without anything really unusual.  The order or the fit 
to the tune or the wonderfulness of the tune make it distinctive.  

A 'generic' dance, also made out of standard figures, isn't particularly
distinctive.  (An unmemorable dance with a distinctive figure is just a
poor dance, but not a 'generic' one.)

To me, Midnight Ramble, which goes like this (and is over 200 years old, so 
I have no copyright or courtesy problem with giving it here):

---------------
MIDNIGHT RAMBLE
Longways Duple, proper

A1: 1-4: 1s clap to launch into cross and cast down, 2s moving up.
    5-8: 1s two hand turn 1.5 until proper

A2: 2s the same

B1: with a skip-change, 1s cross, cast (2s move up again), and 
    half-figure eight to progressed proper place

B2: 4 changes of R&L (with hands)
---------------

is certainly a glossary dance, but not generic despite having bog-standard
figures and being a totally typical late-eighteenth century dance sequence.
The tune is splendid, the texture changes between the A and the B, you get
to synch up with your partner, and you get to connect with your same-sex
neighbor on the R&L, so all-in-all it works very well for me.  I even think
there's a certain perfection in its simplicity.

Take a Dance is virtually the same sequence except that the A part is 
lead through the other couple, cast to place, turn two hands.  But because
the tune is so different - (Bm instead of D, insistent, urgent-feeling) 
it's quite a different feeling and makes the dance distinctive and
ungeneric.  

I think 'glossary' dance is an objective judgment, and 'generic' dance is 
a subjective one.  Some tunes and dances work for some people and some don't,
although you can probably get a majority opinion on whether a tune or dance
is effective.

It happens that I quite like the 'Mount Hills' tune, and find the dance
pleasant, so I wouldn't class it as generic.  Freeford Gardens seems to 
me to be distinctive with that big set forward, turn single, swoop across 
and loop back to partner's place -- what else feels like that?  But if it
doesn't do anything for you, it doesn't.

Speaking of connection -- which I think Carl was -- Freeford gives you eye
contact with partner on the setting, the chance to connect up and down your
line on the cross over, and possible the chance to loop around someone from
the next set over on the way back to place.  It can be a lot of fun.

Your mileage may vary.

-- Alan 


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 14:51:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:03:30 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990909174446.016a21b0-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 05:20 PM 9/9/99 -0400, CF1125-AT-
aol.com wrote:

>I wasn't at English Week, but the subject of "generic English dances" is 
>interesting. One person's generic dance is another's favorite, it seems, and 
>I find more "old" dances to be in that category than recently composed 
>dances. My personal candidates for generic dances are Mount Hills and 
>Freeford Gardens. And I recall that someone listed Freeford Gardens as  
>"local favorite" or some such term just a few days ago. To me these both have 
>forgettable tunes, and forgettable moves in uninteresting orders, with no 
>interesting interactions with anyone, and nothing at all to recommend them. 
>There's no accounting for taste. 

Actually, Freeford is a recently composed dance [by David and Kathryn
Wright of Lichfield], set to an old tune, Edgworth Bumpkins.  Both it and
Mount Hills work nicely for newer dancers, and Freeford, at least, has some
very friendly potential interactions for the dancers in neighboring lines.

Sharon Green [who happily programs them both from time to time]
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:56:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Bob Archer wrote:

[snip]

> I've been wondering about the purpose of workshops and classes 
> for some time now and, as a result, have changed some of the 
> material I present and the way I present it.
> 
> Mary Beth wrote:
> > Why not have one or two hour  dances during the day then, 
> perhaps on 
> > a particular theme, and do away with the notion of classes 
> altogether?
> 
> This seems to have become common at festivals in the UK over the 
> past few years - sessions that are described as classes or 
> workshops but are actually just a mini-dance on a theme (and I 
> must take my share of the blame, I have run plenty of workshops 
> that were really just mini-dances). I have been trying to get away 
> from this recently and run classes that are more about dancing 
> than dances, some people love this, some hate it.

When I think about what I want, I realize that there are at least four
distinct things that I may want from sessions at dance camps.  Which of
them I want in a particular instance depends on several factors, including
my own development and ambition as a dancer and dance leader, my mood, and
who is leading the session and what s/he appears to be offering, along
with my previous knowledge of what that person has done in similar
situations and how s/he teaches.

The four things are:

1) To learn to dance better and/or increase my enjoyment of dance;
2) To learn to teach better, or learn new things to teach;
3) To do dances not typically done at home because of difficulty or some
   other inhibiting factor, or to do new or other dances not widely known.
4) To dance for pure recreation with good, enthusiastic dancers.

There is no implicit importance to the order given here.  I may want to
achieve more than one of these goals in selecting a particular session.

[snip again]

> Someone made the point that classes are run for the benefit of the 
> people attending them - I'd agree with this entirely, however since 
> different people have different needs / wants / expectations it is 
> pretty much impossible to meet them all. Should class / dance 
> leaders be purely concerned with keeping the people who attend 
> their classes happy? Which people? The majority? The loudest?

I liked that statement, too, and I immediately had some ideas about
incorporating this into my own teaching, but there are parts of the idea
that I don't go along with -- it has to do with why people come, and the
information that is available about what they should expect to be offered.

There are certain things that I would like to teach and possibly am
qualified to teach, and there are other things that people sometimes would
like me to teach which for some reason I balk at.  I may balk because I
don't feel that I have the knowledge or understanding, or because I lack
the enthusiasm for the subject, or because it is out of context in the
particular setting, or because it may seem to me to undermine my principal
reason for being there in the first place.

This situation sometimes arises when folks who are dance-hungry come to my
sessions wanting more of their favorite form of dance, such as contra or
international folk-dance or SCA-type reconstructions, and then they have
difficulty leaving that form at home, but introduce it into the session.
I would like to ask them temporarily to abandon these other traditions &
habits and learn the basics of ECD as I am teaching them; then when they
have done that, they are free to decide whether this is something they
want to do or not, but I do not feel that simply because they want to do
something else that I should therefore change what I'm doing to
incorporate what they'd like.

On the other hand, within the rather fuzzy boundaries of what might be
called English Country Dance, I feel somewhat more flexible.

> Do dance leaders have a wider responsibility, maybe to some 
> mysterious entity called "the community"? I had several 
> conversations with people at Pinewoods along the lines of:

I think that anyone who ends up with control over what other people do has
responsibility in proportion to that control.  I think this is, however, a
complex relationship.  If the control results from broader knowedge of the
subject, and a following develops in recognition of that knowledge, then
it seems that part of the responsibility is in preservation and expansion
of that knowledge.  If the control comes from a leader's ability to give
folks a good time, then there's a responsibility to try to give them a
good time.  I think dance leaders are often in their positions because of
a combination of these things, and how to achieve the "proper" balance
between them is the real question.

[another snip]

> Hmm, it's not late at night, I'm not drunk but I'm still rambling quite 
> effectively. I'll finish off with something a little more constructive:
> 
> Would anyone like to share the best workshop / class they ever 
> went to and reveal what made it so good for them.

I've been to a lot that I have gotten much from, but I'll nominate two
which stand out in my memory because they changed the way I danced and my
attitudes more than any others:

Bruce Hamilton's "Through the ceiling" workshop at Pinewoods English week
last year, which got me to be much more relaxed about many things and
improved my attitude in many ways;

Brad Foster's class in "Traditional" dances at Pinewoods English week two
(?) years ago, which really changed my attitude toward and appreciation of
them.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:20:19 -0400
From: "M.A.J. McKenna" <mmckenna-AT-
mindspring.com>
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Subject: best class or workshop...
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i second Eric's appreciation of Bruce H.'s teaching. Bruce did Atlanta's
annual ECD weekend two years ago. Though i *think* - Bruce, if you're
listening in, correct me if i'm wrong - he didn't do the full "through the
ceiling" treatment, still his coaching/coaxing in focusing successively on
being a dancer, partner, member of a minor set, of a major set, of a dance
event and of a community of dancers was ... persuasive and enlightening.
certainly it continues to influence my awareness and alertness when i'm
dancing.

m.


 _\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_
        
   maryn mckenna            www.mindspring.com/~mmckenna

  "No way is large or smooth enough for capering roisters,
  for jumping, skipping, dancing dames, but that broad,
  beaten, pleasant road that leads to Hell. The gate of
  Heaven is too narrow for whole rounds, whole troupes
  of dancers to march in together." (Wm. Prynne, 1632)
 
 _\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_\-/_
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:21:51 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance
To: ECD-AT-
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----- Original Message -----
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
To: Trevor Monson <tmonsont-AT-
yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: Welsh Country Dance


> Hello, Trevor.
>
> Many thanks for writing about WCD.
> As I expected, the style is undoubtedly something that must be seen
rather
> than read about.
> I had no idea what steps to use, the only advice in the instructions
> accompanying the CD I bought were to dance even when not moving.
>
> The CD has examples of each of the different styles you mentioned,
except
> Clog.
>
> >  Often, at the end of a phrase,
> >3 "heel steps" are often done to suit the phrasing,
>
> Could you describe that for me?
>
> Obviously I'm not going in for WCD in a big way, but thought it might
be
> nice to add a dance or two to our ECD-SCD events so that the
participants
> will think they were getting some variety.
> One dance that caught my notice is "Arglwydd Caernarfon", a 4-couple
set
> which changes orientation at each repetition -- could be fun -- so I'm
> going to try it at our first dance of the season on Saturday .
>
> All the best,
>
> Martin,
> in Grenoble, France.
>     ---
>    http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
> (dancing, dances, cycling ...)

Martin,

1)  3 heel steps.  These are done on the last 3 beats of (normally) the
last bar of the 8 bar phrase.  They are done on the spot, and is just a
simple step onto  flat left foot, keeping right heel touching ground
with toe sticking up, then hop onto flat right foot and touch left heel
to ground with toe sticking up, and then hop back onto flat left foot
with again with right heel on the floor with toe sticking up.  Both feet
are moved at the same time, and are kept together side by side, weight
being mainly on flat foot.

One of the main times this is used is half way through "Cross Heys".  In
a 3 couple  dance 1st couple will cross between 2's & 3's and
dance heys on their partners side, at the completion of the first hey
everyone will do the 3 heel stamps before continuing the hey on their
own side - and then finish the heys with 3 heel steps - the music always
tells you!

2)  Arglwydd Caernarfon.  Good luck with it on Saturday!  Don't forget
to link little fingers with your partner when gipsying (frowned upon in
ECD - but this is Welsh!)

3)  "Abaty Llantony"  (Llanthony Abbey  - No. 7 on your C.D. "Cicio'r
Nenbren") uses the cross heys as described in 1 above.  The heel steps
are never mentioned in the instructions as Welsh dancers just do them
automatically.  If you fancy trying that dance as well be careful with
the timing in B2 - walk down for 4 steps only, walk back up for 4 steps
and then dance the "rugby balls" (men cross ,ladies cross, men cross
back, ladies cross back - all moving as a continuous movement)

Best wishes  (I only danced in Welsh, never could speak the language, so
no Welsh phrase to finish off with!)

Trevor Monson




_________________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:02:18 PST
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:49:33 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: best class or workshop...
To: ECD-AT-
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Years and years ago, just after I discovered English Country Dancing, 
I took two series of dances with Penelope Nauman in Great Barrington 
Mass.  These were weekly classes given over a few months, by 
subscription (you paid in full in advance).

They were NOT weekly dances. They were classes. There was a small 
attendance but enough to dance longways and square formations. We 
worked on rather repetoire type dances and went back to them during 
the duration of the sessions.

Often now, years later, when doing things like Up With Ailey and any 
number of other dances, I "hear" Penelope's instruction on what to do 
- surge into that line of three, or be sure to BE there in time for 
this circle etc - those things that aren't always obvious and yet 
make the dance. Our teacher was not afraid to stop what we were doing 
and ask that we do it her way.

What did I take away from those classes? A certain confidence in 
doing dances, a good familiarity with some of the classics, a feeling 
of accomplishment for having mastered Step Stately.

Somewhere in that same time period (it's all a blur to me now) I went 
to Pinewoods for E&A and took a class with Genny Shimer.  I took home 
the music and dance for Quite Carried Away and Miss DeJersey's 
Memorial.  AND I went away having heard, from someone who knew, 
something about how those dances were meant to be danced. whew.

Great question Bob - thanks!

Mary Beth
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
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One further thought on the subject of "generic" dances: 
This is really one of the biggest differences between ECD and modern contra 
dancing. Most modern contras are "generic." Pick any 32 bar tunes, select 
from a small list of moves and put them together with a few rules (must add 
up to 32 bars, must progress, must swing partner and neighbor, some "flow" 
would be nice) and you've got contra dances that a hall-full of dancers will 
enjoy. This formula just doesn't work for ECD. Each dance needs to be 
distinctive in some way in order to be considered good. It should have its 
own tune, and the tune needs to match the moves, needs to be a good tune in 
its own right, etc. Distinctive moves are very important in what makes a good 
EC dance: think about Dick's Maggot, Fandango, Nonesuch, Mr. Isaac's, Morpeth 
Rant, Speed the Plow (thrown in for some local controversy...), etc., etc. So 
when we get what seems to be a generic EC dance, we cringe. 
Carl Friedman
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From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
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Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
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Carl wrote:

>Morpeth Rant, Speed the Plow (thrown in for some local controversy...)


These two dances are among the greatest English Dances ever danced!

Mary Beth

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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
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In a message dated 9/9/99 10:26:56 PM, you wrote:

<<Carl wrote:
>Morpeth Rant, Speed the Plow (thrown in for some local controversy...)
These two dances are among the greatest English Dances ever danced!
Mary Beth>>

I (obviously) agree! Some of my friends, however, have other ideas.
Carl
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 23:22:20 -0400
From: munisteri-AT-
att.net
Subject: Re:  "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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On 9 Sep 99, at 22:12, CF1125-AT-
aol.com wrote:

<snippity-snip>
 Most modern contras are "generic." Pick any 32 bar tunes,
> select from a small list of moves and put them together with a few rules
> (must add up to 32 bars, must progress, must swing partner and neighbor,
> some "flow" would be nice) and you've got contra dances that a hall-full
> of dancers will enjoy. <snippity-snip>

I had a friend who called such contra dances "Mr. Potato Head 
dances" (is Mr. Potato Head still around?). Let's face it; a large 
number of dances by even the best dance composers don't last very 
long, and I'm sure that many of the new dances that are very well 
received by us now will fade in a few years. And that many a dance 
captivates us because the tune permits a nuance of interaction that 
the figures by themselves would not do with a different tune, let 
alone those dances that are danced only because the tune is great 
and not heard often. (I have, of course, some personal candidates 
for each of these categories, but I won't mention them except to 
small groups that don't include anybody who can beat me up.)

Cheers, Art

Arthur A. Munisteri
123 West 93 Street, Apt. 1F
New York, NY 10025
212-666-7728 (eve)
212-726-0010 (day)
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:04:51 +0200 (CEST)
From: Tom Goodale <goodale-AT-
aei-potsdam.mpg.de>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: fandango
To: ECD-AT-
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On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:

> Fandango again - I once taught Fandango to a group of Scottish dancers.
> Should have been easy for them, as every move is found in many Scottish
> dances.  They had terrible trouble with timing and style, and in fact
> barely got through the dance.  I don't _think_ it was just me, as other
> dances, less similar to what they were used to, went much better.

As an aside, there is a Scottish dance the first half of which is just the
same as the first half of Fandango - I think it's called 'The Fury', but
it was a long time ago...

It certainly doesn't feel at all like the Fandango to dance, 'though.

> The style is all in the music, I think.  The figures may be the same but
> the way you do them is dictated by the music.

Mostly, but the culture of the dance group you're in also can make quite
a difference.

Tom


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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:26:42 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: fandango
To: ECD-AT-
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Most of my experience has been with Scottish dancing but I recently learned
the dance The Wood Duck (which I like a lot) and have taught it twice to
Scottish Country dancers - the "gypsy / gipsy" is very foreign to them -
going around each other without hands seems strange and they're not used to
THAT MUCH eye contact - and being all waltz steps - and the fact that it's
much slower than they are used to - most are rather resistant to it - some
like it right away - but I'd predict that with enough repetitions all except
the most resistant will come to like the dance.  It's the first dance on the
Austin Scottish Country Dance ball program Dec. 11 (I have no idea why - but
it is).
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Goodale <goodale-AT-
aei-potsdam.mpg.de>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: fandango


>
>
> On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:
>
> > Fandango again - I once taught Fandango to a group of Scottish dancers.
> > Should have been easy for them, as every move is found in many Scottish
> > dances.  They had terrible trouble with timing and style, and in fact
> > barely got through the dance.  I don't _think_ it was just me, as other
> > dances, less similar to what they were used to, went much better.
>
> As an aside, there is a Scottish dance the first half of which is just the
> same as the first half of Fandango - I think it's called 'The Fury', but
> it was a long time ago...
>
> It certainly doesn't feel at all like the Fandango to dance, 'though.
>
> > The style is all in the music, I think.  The figures may be the same but
> > the way you do them is dictated by the music.
>
> Mostly, but the culture of the dance group you're in also can make quite
> a difference.
>
> Tom
>
>

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:23:31 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
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Bop,

My reaction to the Bare Necessities St Croix week were similar....

Let me describe a typical evening:

first corners cross
second corner cross
3 changes of right and left
insert one other standard figure
repeat 7 or 8 times
start new dance.

If the music is good...but if the music is hum drum....

I enjoyed meeting you at English last week...learned a lot,and I greatly
appreciate you coice of dances and activites.

Mike 

At 01:20 PM 9/9/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>This was something that struck me on Friday night of Pinewoods' 
>English week. A lot of the recently composed English dances we 
>had been doing all week came across to me as being very generic. 
>Take an average tune that hasn't been used before, put some 
>combination of turns, casts, circular heys and setting to it and 
>voila, a new dance, but one that was utterly forgettable.
>
>I rather expect to be out on a limb with this one - for a number of 
>reasons I am unwilling to trust my judgement about this feeling 
>which is why I'm asking for other comments. I'd also like to make it 
>clear that there are a lot of recently composed English dances 
>which I think are wonderful, not at all generic and that really add 
>something to the repertoire, I am certainly not trying to knock 
>recently composed dances in general or any dance composer in 
>particular.
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

Mike Mudrey
P.O. Box 22
New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022

mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net

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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:13:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Back From Pinewoods
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Brad Sayler wrote:

 >I'm a firm believer that dance class names should describe the
 >dances that will be taught, not the dancers they intend to
 >attract. I try to include terms like challenging, less
 >challenging, or easy along with some words that describe the
 >focus or source of the dances; Pat Shaw, historical, traditional
 >and the like.

I agree. Not just classes, but events, as well. Fifteen years ago,
I was involved in a series of contradances in NYC (anybody
remember "Olivebridge 4"?). We wanted to make it challenging
dances for experienced dancers. I insisted (and won out) that the
publicity include the word "challenging" and not "experienced" as
some of the others wanted.

  ______      /\/\/\/\       _______
 <______>     | | | | |     /__|____\    David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |    /___|_____\   <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |   /____|______\  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/   /_____|_______\

Ventilator   Concertina      Hammered
  Bellows      Bellows       Dulcimer
(Vocation)   (Avocation) (Those were the days)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:13:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: "Generic" English Dances
To: mgoodman-AT-
albany.net, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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 >>Morpeth Rant, Speed the Plow (thrown in for some local
 >>controversy...)
 >
 >These two dances are among the greatest English Dances ever
 >danced!

Take your clogs off, Mary Beth!

  ;-)


BTW, Larry Jennings, in his early 1980s book "Zesty Contras," uses
the word "storyline" to describe an element he thinks essential to
the zesty contradance. Reading all the comments about "Generic"
English Dances made me think that perhaps this is just what's
missing in them.


  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:56:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:02:00 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: fandango
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909101756.KAA31069-AT-
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rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) wrote:

> >(Side note, anyone who is ever tempted to do "The Fandango" to
> >contra reels, please don't - it is unbelievably horrible. I knew it
> >wasn't going to work well but I was shocked by how dreadful it
> >turned out).
> 
> What was so bad, Bob?  Was it that the turns and casts and lead-up are too
> leisurely for contra music?  Or was it simply that you are so used to doing
> Fandango to Fandango's tune that anything else is unthinkable?

I'm sure part of it was that the tune for Fandango is so closely 
associated with the dance in my head that anything else would feel 
odd, but things like the turns and casts just didn't work at all. 
Maybe there are some contras with 8 step tunes or 8 step casts in 
but I haven't come across them yet.

> >I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
> >where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
> >English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
> >can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.
> 
> Fandango again - I once taught Fandango to a group of Scottish dancers.
> Should have been easy for them, as every move is found in many Scottish
> dances.  They had terrible trouble with timing and style, and in fact
> barely got through the dance.  I don't _think_ it was just me, as other
> dances, less similar to what they were used to, went much better.

This was actually the session at which I did Fandango to contra 
reels. The way I ran the session was to do dances to the "wrong" 
music and ask people which tradition they though the dances were 
from. We actually managed to find one (Ted's Triplet #15 - pause 
for cheering from the hall) which would work in a number of different 
styles depending on the music that was used.

> The style is all in the music, I think.  The figures may be the same but
> the way you do them is dictated by the music.

Agreed - the music makes such a difference.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:56:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:02:00 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: "Generic" English Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909101756.KAA03108-AT-
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Carl Friedman wrote:

> One further thought on the subject of "generic" dances: 
> This is really one of the biggest differences between ECD and modern contra 
> dancing. Most modern contras are "generic." Pick any 32 bar tunes, select 
> from a small list of moves and put them together with a few rules (must add 
> up to 32 bars, must progress, must swing partner and neighbor, some "flow" 
> would be nice) and you've got contra dances that a hall-full of dancers will 
> enjoy. This formula just doesn't work for ECD. Each dance needs to be 
> distinctive in some way in order to be considered good. It should have its 
> own tune, and the tune needs to match the moves, needs to be a good tune in 
> its own right, etc. Distinctive moves are very important in what makes a good 
> EC dance: think about Dick's Maggot, Fandango, Nonesuch, Mr. Isaac's, Morpeth 
> Rant, Speed the Plow (thrown in for some local controversy...), etc., etc. So 
> when we get what seems to be a generic EC dance, we cringe. 

This was really the connection I was trying to make - I have trouble 
distinguishing many modern contras, and I have to say that by the 
end of English week I was having trouble distinguishing between 
ECDs (lack of sleep might also have played a part here).

I also have to say that I found many of the tunes uninspiring, but 
music tends to be an intensely personal thing anyway. Someone 
mentioned "Take A Dance" which to my taste is nothing without 
the tune - even more specific, it is nothing without the tune being 
played in a certain way to give it some real drive. I'd put Holborn 
March in the same category. I do both dances regularly. If they had 
been set to less wonderful tunes I wouldn't.

Speed the Plough really needs to be done with the right style of 
music and the right attitude from the dancers. I'm not sure if 
anyone on the list was at my final ceilidh class where we did 
Speed the Plough but I think everyone in that class had the right 
attitude (how many step hops does it take to get from one end of 
C# to the other?), and the music was excellent (Doug Creighton, 
Mary Lea and Peter Barnes).

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:58:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:57:30 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Same dance, different tune
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Speaking of Take a Dance....

Take a Dance and Ore Boggy are the same dance, but the different tunes
create such different moods that I've often wondered if dancers would notice
they had done the same dance twice if both were on the program one evening.
In fact, the moods are so different that one might well ask if indeed one
had done the "same" dance twice.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:22:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:28:38 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:05:24 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-to: marykfriday-AT-
erols.com
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> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:11:04 -0400
> From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
> Subject: Back from Pinewoods
<snip> 
> Gene - would it be possible to share the results of the balloting
> that resulted in Thursday and Friday night dances here?  I'd be
> curious to hear the full range of dances that were suggested,
> although I was so happy that Morpeth got danced I didn't really care
> about the rest. Oh all right - yes it was good that Nonesuch and
> Fandango got done too - what's a week without Nonesuch? ;-)
> 
> Mary Beth <-- feet UP

Susan Murrow and I tallied the votes, then I compiled the results,
ordering by highest number of votes.  We tallied a total of 574 votes
from 126 ballots (each camper was invited to cast up to 5 votes).  Votes
were cast for 158 different dances.

This process was compared to the Boston Centre's Fall Favorites, where
registrants can vote for up to 5 dances, but this exercise was different
in a couple of important ways: Boston dancers (as I understand it) are
given a list of perhaps 200-300 dances that have been danced there from
which to choose, while the ED Week campers pulled 158 different titles
out of their heads (quite a feat, I think).  Also, in Boston, dancers
have several days (or all year) in which to consider their votes, while,
at camp, ballots were handed out at lunch -- dessert time! -- and turned
in on the way out of the dining hall.

Here are the results:

Nominations for Request Night
English Dance Week 1999

27 votes:
Elizabeth
Miss de Jersey's Memorial

17 votes:
Well Hall

15 votes:
Fandango

14 votes:
Dublin Bay

13 votes:
Prime Minister

12 votes:
Easter Morn

11 votes:
Morpeth Rant
The Punch Bowl
Quite Carr-ied Away
Sarah

10 votes:
K & E

9 votes:
Bare Necessities
Newcastle
Smithy Hill

8 votes:
Hambleton's Round O
The Homecoming
Hudson Barn

7 votes:
Barbarini's Tambourine
Mad Robin
The Mavis Sweetly Sings
Sun Assembly

6 votes:
The American Husband
Fair and Softly
 From Aberdeen
Good Man of Cambridge
John Tallis's Canon
Nonesuch
Peace Be With You
Up With Aily

5 votes:
Come Let's Be Merry
Dusty Miller
Levi Jackson Rag
The Old Mill
Prince William
St. Margaret's Hill
Sally in Our lley
Trip to Kilburn

4 votes:
All Saints' Day
Ashford Anniversary
Barham Down
Collier's Daughter
Dick's Maggot
Dover Pier
In the Bleak Midwinter
Knives and Forks
The Lover's Knot
Michael and All Angels
Randolph Farewell
Unrequited Love
Winter Memories
Young Widow


3 votes:
The Female Saylor
The First Lady
Going to Barbados
Handel With Care
Heidenroslein
Jack's Health
The Lover's Farewell
Mr. Isaac's Maggot
Mover and Shaker
O! Susato
Picking Up Sticks
Queen's Jig
Rose of Sharon
Round Pond
Speed the Plough
Step Stately
Wa' Is Me
Wibsey Roundabout


2 votes:
Albany Assembly
Bar a Bar
The Bishop
Circle Saraband
Dunant House Waltz
The Enchanted Place
Face the Music
Flowers of Edinburgh
Gathering Peascods
Grimstock
Hole in the Wall
The Introduction
Irish Lamentation
Jacques Latin
La Russe
Lilliburlero
Nottingham Swing
The Pursuit
Round About Our Coal Fires
Severn Bore
Shrewsbury Lasses
Song of the Harpist
Take a Dance
Trip to Paris
Trip to Tunbridge
True Kit
Walpole Cottage
Wedding Ring
Willow Tree
Wood Duck

1 each:
Andrea's Waltz
Apley House
The Astonished Archaeologist
Astoria Lass
Bartlett House
Bath Carnival
Bellamira
Bonny Cuckoo
British Sorrow
Bury Fair
Cadger's Caper
Corelli's Maggot
Cumberland Square 8
Dargason
Dorset 4-Hand Reel
Duke of Kent's Waltz
Easter Thursday
Elverton Grove
Epping Forest
Fenterlarick
A Girl's Best Friend
Gigue for Genny
Helena
Hey Boys, Up Go We
Hortonia
Jack's Maggot
Jacob Hall's Jig
Kelsterne Gardens
King of Poland
Laurelhurst
Long Live London
Love's Triumph
Lull Me Beyond Thee
Mayfair
Measured Obsession
The Merry Andrew
Miss Anderson's Allemand
Mr. Ganniford's Maggot
Nan's Waltz
A New Beginning
Perpetual Motion
Petronella
The Phoenix
Pinewoods Reel
Rafe's Waltz
Red House
Rufty Tufty
St. Martin's Lane
Scotch Morris
Sweet Jenny Jones
The Tempest
Trip to the Jubilee
Trip to Orpington
The Wedding of Maia and David
Whirligig
Winter Solstice
Winter Waltz
Wooin' Mairi

Mary Kay Friday
Washington, DC

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:26:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:26:22 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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[140.186.62.150]>
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Hmmm.  I wasn't there but the list sure sounds awfully familiar.  Are we
all doing basically the same repertoire around the country?

But only 2 votes for the Bish?

Sad.

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:01:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:01:22 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Mary K. Friday wrote:

> Susan Murrow and I tallied the votes, then I compiled the results,
> ordering by highest number of votes.  We tallied a total of 574 votes
> from 126 ballots (each camper was invited to cast up to 5 votes).  Votes
> were cast for 158 different dances.

Thanks,  your list makes fascinating reading.  I think Bob Archer and Fried
Herman had quite an influence there!

It encourages me to have a go at Easter Morn (which I have never danced), and
inspires me to ask why Hudson Barn is so wonderful.  I tried it recently
(since it is on the Boston Centre Bare Necessities CD) and felt it was
very hard work on the timing for not very much reward;  was there some
subtle point I had failed to understand?  (I don't think I was trying to
dance it to the wrong track on the CD, though that has been a problem for me
in the past.)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:01:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:55:23 +0000
From: Mary Stafford <mes-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Hudson Barn
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01BEFC5D.C92ED400-AT-
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Hugh Stewart asks why Hudson Barn is so popular, and notes that when he danced it to the new Bare Necessities CD he found it unrewarding for the effort. I must say that I found this cut less than satisfactory. 

When I first danced Hudson Barn a number of years back, I quickly added it to my all-times-favorites list. Its driving tune was well connected to driving and exciting figures which offered pleasure to both first and second couples. Alas, over the years, the tempo at which BN plays this wonderful dance has been slowed down, and on the new CD it seems as dreamy as Well Hall or Mad Robin- and frankly, feels totally toothless at this tempo. Don't get me wrong- I love both those dances, too. But Hudson Barn's appeal was not in its dream-like quality, but in its driving quality.

I can only suggest that you get some other band to play the tune ("Dance to Your Daddy") at a speedier tempo and try the dance again to that- see if you like those circles and two-hand turns better!

Mary Stafford
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:50:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:50:10 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hudson Barn
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Actually Jacqueline always intended it to be slower than it's gotten to be
outside of BN's world.  And personally I think it becomes even more
confusing and hard to keep track of how far your starred or circled when
it's put up at a brisker tempo.  True to second half is pretty good at a
breathless Dublin Bay sort of tempo, but too many people don't turn to come
back at the right time and then the sets get messy.

I was there at it's debut.  Damned if I can remember anything about the
tempo it first appeared at.

If Peter's still on the list he might be able to ask Jacqueline for her
recollections and Earl was there too and he might remember.

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:39:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:29:53 +0000
From: Mary Stafford <mes-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hudson Barn
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01BEFC7C.10D21420-AT-
mes.world.std.com>
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Emily Ferguson points out that Jacqueline "always" intended H.B. to be slower. Clearly the current tempo is a decision made by Bare Necessities, and by Jacqueline, and of course it *is* her dance. Still, I do remember dancing it at a brisker tempo originally, and at the risk of sounding like the punch line of a bad joke ("Not *that* shaggy!"), a tempo somewhere between too fast for comfort and too slow to enjoy the drive of the figures of the first part would be nice..... 

Oh, well, I'll just have to savor the memory.

Mary Stafford
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:57:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:51:17 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Hudson Barn
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205508b4008d0b2cde-AT-
[206.72.193.214]>
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References: <v03007800b40029d56ce2-AT-
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Emily wrote:

>Actually Jacqueline always intended it to be slower than it's gotten to be
>outside of BN's world.  And personally I think it becomes even more
>confusing and hard to keep track of how far your starred or circled when
>it's put up at a brisker tempo.


I think what I remember from first doing it years ago wasn't that it 
was faster but that the tune was played in a more driving way - more 
emphasis on the beat.

Mary Beth

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:40:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: JoAnne Rawls <ljrawls-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990912014007.86934.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
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Hugh writes:

>It encourages me to have a go at Easter Morn (which I have never danced), 
>and
>inspires me to ask why Hudson Barn is so wonderful.  I tried it recently
>(since it is on the Boston Centre Bare Necessities CD) and felt it was
>very hard work on the timing for not very much reward;  was there some
>subtle point I had failed to understand?  (I don't think I was trying to
>dance it to the wrong track on the CD, though that has been a problem for 
>me
>in the past.)

So how did you like Easter Morn, Hugh? Our dance group recently learned it 
to the BN music, and I really like it. On the other hand, we tried Bury 
Fair, and nobody seemed to "get it" at all. The only way we could make it 
fit the music was to bail out of the hey early. After finally dancing it 
through several repetitions and congratulating ourselves that we had it at 
last, we finished several bars before the music did! Has anyone else had 
problems with that dance?

JoAnne Rawls
Newport News, VA

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:43:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:39:23 -0600
From: William DeRagon <wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990910.203932.-932287.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Mary Kay Friday wrote:

>> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:11:04 -0400
>> From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
>> Subject: Back from Pinewoods  <snip> 
>> Gene - would it be possible to share the results of the balloting
>> that resulted in Thursday and Friday night dances here?  <snip>
>> 
>> Mary Beth <-- feet UP

>Susan Murrow and I tallied the votes, then I compiled the results,
>ordering by highest number of votes.  We tallied a total of 574 votes
>from 126 ballots (each camper was invited to cast up to 5 votes).  Votes
>were cast for 158 different dances.   <snip>

Thanks for posting the list ... and thanks to ED Week campers for
generating it.

'Prime Minister' was a highly favored dance (#6 on the list) and one I am
not familiar with.  Is this a relatively new dance? ...or am I just in an
ECD backwater?

William DeRagon
Albuquerque, NM
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:36:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:17:16 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Request List from English Week (Was: Back from Pinewoods)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0420550bb400cb62d26d-AT-
[206.72.193.214]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <19990910.203932.-932287.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>

William asked:

>'Prime Minister' was a highly favored dance (#6 on the list) and one I am
>not familiar with.  Is this a relatively new dance? ...or am I just in an
>ECD backwater?

Perhaps Bob would like to tell you more about it..... since he called 
it that night.  I was watching, and I would give it a top score for 
the most interesting story line of the week.

I will say that it's a 9 person , 3 X 3 grid formation dance and 
seems to require a hat.

Mary Beth

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:34:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:34:17 -0400
From: Harold Griswold <griswold-AT-
saber.towson.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: How to sign off?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Could someone send instructions about unsubscribing from this list?
Thanks very much.
Gene Griswold

================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:38:05 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>I think we're in danger of simply saying that an advanced dancer is 
>one who is capable of doing certain difficult dances or moves 
>(shades of the Modern Western Square Dance movement here) 
>rather than someone who has good dancing technique. I've danced 
>with many people who were beginners to ECD (and therefore didn't 
>know all of the moves) but were still marvellous dancers.
>

On the other hand I have known people for years who think thay are "experienced"
dancers but they have never advanced beyond the beginner stage of frantically
getting from point "A" to point "B". They simply don't care about learning to
dance better because they are under the impression that they already know it
all. It isn't just a matter of being a recreational dancer vs. a "fanatic".
They are in a group which I call "perpetual beginners".

Something I have come to realize recently is that ECD and Contra both require
the dancer to think ahead to the next figure and where they need to be at a
given time in the dance. The people who are perpetually late, rushing to catch
up, dragging their feet, etc. never think ahead. They have retained a beginners
concept that they have to finish a figure and pause at "home" before they can
start the next one rather than moving through a space and into the next figure.


As for the titles on classes at camps, workshops, etc. I agree with many of
the people who say the name of a class should reflect its contents. I also agree
with Bob that teaching good technique is important to any class no matter what
level we might assign to it. I believe that a week or weekend at camp should
have classes during the day that teach better technique and styling while evenings
should be reserved for relaxed party dancing. I have been to weekends where
there was really very little actual teaching. It might as well have been done
in the same form as a dawn dance where it is one big party with different people
calling and playing. 

I've had discussions with callers who are afraid of offending "experienced"
dancers by teaching a styling point during an evening dance. I disagree with
this attitude because as an experienced dancer I would like to see more people
learn better technique and style. The only place most people learn is at the
evening dances and putting in subtle styling points while teaching the figures
ultimately enhances everyones enjoyment of the dance. But then I have spent
the last thirty+ years learning to dance and realize that I still don't know
it all.

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:44:42 -0400
From: "Gary M. Roodman" <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Advice on Wireless Microphones
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990912134442.0203e650-AT-
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Dear Dancers,

	I need a little advice and it occurs to me that some of you will be able
to provide it.  I want to buy a wireless microphone.   I am interested to
know about people's experiences with the various possibilities.  I would
prefer a headset or a button mike.  Are they equally good?  Is feedback a
problem?  What about comfort?  I see they can be very expensive.  Are there
some that are better buys than other?  What else do I need to know?

	Any help you can provide will be appreciated.  It is probably best for you
to respond directly to me rather than to the list (unless there is a huge
outcry of interest in this narrow subject).

Gary


================================================================================
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:30:43 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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>Helen Tuzio
>Mary Beth's insights have left us much to ponder.  
>
>I personally prefer a graded method of classes, to encourage beginner
>students and to allow experienced folks to dance at their level.  In the
>past few years I have twice found myself a beginner in a class of
>experienced dancers.  One was a Beginner Morris class which was filled
>with Morris dancers who wanted to learn a new tradition.  I found myself
>sinking a few times, but stuck it out because I knew I had every right to
>be there.  Had the course been billed as anything other than beginner
>level, I would have dropped out and missed a thrilling experience.  

This reminds me of my first experiences at Pinewoods years ago. The longsword
class was not graded and I went because it sounded interesting, new and different.
I ended up in a set with seven VERY experienced dancers who had all been coming
to Pinewoods for years. (Back in those days there weren't long waiting lists
and many people went to camp every summer for both dance weeks.) It was a bit
intimidating being the only one in the set that didn't know what he was doing,
but on the other hand I learned it much faster than if the whole set had been
struggling to learn. The same was somewhat true of the Morris classes. Although
they were graded classes, each class was a different tradition and there were
experienced people in the beginners class because they wanted to do that tradition.


>The second time I found myself in this position, the course was not
>identified by level.  However, the instructor wanted to teach an
>experienced class (or so it seemed) and frightened away most of the
>beginners.  In this case it would have been helpful to have the class
>billed as Advanced so the rest of us would not have wasted our efforts
>while holding back the rest of the class.  

The class list should at least have had some indication of what the instructor
intended to accomplish in the class. I'm not sure that I agree with the "Beginner",
"Intermediate" and "Advanced" labels but favor a breif statement of what the
class will involve.

>The term "Advanced" gives me the impression that I'll be able to dance in
>that class without care.  Too many times I have found myself in a
>position of having to direct or teach dance (not specifically ECD) when I
>don't consider myself an instructor.  The idea of going to a workshop
>merely to DANCE is an exciting prospect.

When I go to a "workshop", I expect it to be somewhat instructive. Some are
mearly big dance parties. Don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to having some
class period during a weekend or week that allows a person to relax and just
enjoy dancing, but to me the intent of a workshop is to improve/enhance the
abilities of those who attend. To me, the evenings are the primary time for
instruction-free dancing.

>Having said that, I have been dancing English country for roughly five
>years, and went off to Pinewoods with full intention of taking Gene's
>Advanced class.  Yet, I found myself in Bob Archer's Intermediate class
>Sunday morning.  I headed in that direction because Bob had said he
>intended to teach dance technique.  What a great thing!  His class was
>FUN, lively and very informative.  Frankly, with no intended offense to
>anyone, he taught things that nearly all of us could use, regardless of
>level.  Yet some people specifically said they did not belong in that
>class because it was "Intermediate"!!  What a shame!  The "Intermediate"
>label should not keep people away (although in this case, Gene's
>"Advanced" class was also draw).  I wonder what would have happened if
>the two classes had not been offered at the same time...Or if English
>week were extended to two weeks...:-)

I think that if the instructor is good we can all learn from them regardless
of the class level. I remember a dance week at Brasstown at which George Marshall
taught a couples dance class. I had been dancing every one of those dances for
years but still learned a few little pointers from him. I went to the class
with the main purpose of being there to help others learn, but I came away a
better dancer because of it. I also think it has a lot to do with the dancers
individual attitude. I know people who are not very good dancers who probably
wouldn't benefit from anyone's class because they have the attitude that they
already know it and wouldn't pay attention. 

I have gone to workshops where I learned a lot but felt that I didn't learn
it as well as I should have. I went to a Finnish workshop in Vancouver, BC several
years ago with an instructor who knew very little English. I was frustrated
by our inability to communicate. I went to another workshop with him and he
had learned more English and I learned a lot more from him because he was better
able to put his ideas across to the group. Many of the people at both workshops
were Finnish, but at the first one their dance knowledge was limited and they
had trouble translating for those of us who didn't understand the instructor.
The syllabus was in Finnish and we have had to rely on video tapes and notes
that we took in order to teach the dances to the rest of our group.

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:17 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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finch-post-12.mail.demon.net>
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I have been asked to post the following to the list.

The Dolmetsch Historical Dance Society

Preliminary conference announcement

ON COMMON GROUND 3
John Playford and The English Dancing Master 1651

Conference, workshops and Ball to mark the 350th anniversary of the first book on dancing in England.

In conjunction with The English Folk Dance and Song Society

Cecil Sharp House
London
Saturday - Sunday 24 -25th March 2001

To register for further information and call for papers contact

The DHDS Conference Administrator, David Wilson,
115 Chesterton Road, CAMBRIDGE, CB 4 3AR, England.

Telephone +44 (0)1223 511175
e-mail conference-AT-
dhds.org.uk
http://www.dhds.org.uk/

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:45:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:45:01 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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I have been dancing for over 50 years, have been calling since 1942 and
teaching (note: I differentiate between calling and teaching) for about 25
of those years but I often still find myself enrolling in the
"intermediate" dance class. All to often the "experienced" or "advanced"
class is filled with people who want to learn new and complicated dances.
IMHO a truly experienced or advanced dancer should be able to learn dances
from the written description and the music (assuming he or she can either
read music, which I can't, or has live or recorded music available)or at
least from a walk through. When I go to a workshop or dance camp I would
hope to receive pointers on style and technique-areas where I can never
learn enough.

I do think a rating system of some sort is necessary but I am not sure just
what, even after all these years. I am delighted when somone like Bruce
Hamilton has the guts to say that this or that workshop will NOT be
teaching a lot of new dances but will be struggling with timing, style and
other "essentials". I often do not know, until I get ther and ask, wether
"advanced" means complicated dances or "dancing".

Ben Stein
Burlington, Vt. USA
dancers-AT-
compuserve.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:26:18 PST
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Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:31:19 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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default>
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It seems as if the two themes emerging here are "we want more instruction on
style and technique" and "we'd like to know what's going to be taught in the
class" and I'd just like to squeak "Me too!" on both points.  I'd even go so
far as to say that it would be great to get more style pointers at the
regular dances in my area, although I realize that's dumping yet another
task on the callers.

Marian Phillips
San Francisco



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:45:42 PST
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:45:31 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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JoAnne Rawls wrote:
> 
> Hugh writes:
> 
> 
> So how did you like Easter Morn, Hugh? Our dance group recently learned it
> to the BN music, and I really like it.

I haven't tried it yet, but I was looking it up and getting confused.
Is the circle right after the star left what was intended?  I would
expect a circle left.  A minor point, I know, but I dare say the great
Internet Oracle will know the answer.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:25:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:24:36 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Same dance, different tune
To: ECD-AT-
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pat et al.;
  that's exactly what happened last month in baltimore. the caller
was late, so someone called Take a dance as a stopgap. then the caller
arrived and did ore boggy (i think that was it), and then yet another
almost-identical dance. i was amazed and a little annoyed, until
someone pointed out that the music made each one feel different. oh,
well, i still like Take a dance best. nice tune.
  and to carl. i guess i do sometimes respond to a thread from 3 days
ago. and yes, everyone, i'm sure carl meant me when talking about
morpeth rant and speed the plow. i've never overly liked them; i find
them awkward to do to the music. maybe it's my partner (it WAS you i
did one of them with recently, wasn't it, carl?). maybe if i did 'em
in clogs... ;-)
  well, viva la difference. if we all liked the same stuff it'd get
pretty boring, perhaps. and i wouldn't be exposed to things that i
then learn to like.
  sharon "philistine" mckinley, and not an official grumbler for any
government agency (and a darn good thing too, or maybe i'd have REALLY
found my calling!)

>>> Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> 09/10 3:57 PM >>>
Speaking of Take a Dance....

Take a Dance and Ore Boggy are the same dance, but the different
tunes
create such different moods that I've often wondered if dancers would
notice
they had done the same dance twice if both were on the program one
evening.
In fact, the moods are so different that one might well ask if indeed
one
had done the "same" dance twice.

Pat

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:06:45 -0400
From: Benjamin Stein <dancers-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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The circle right after the star left is correct. We tried the dance at our
local group last Friday and it flows beutifully. Try it-the star left and
the circle right go in the same direction. The major problem during the
dance is moving the circle fast enough so that you get back to your own
side in time for the gates (which flow right out of the circle). This was
aggrevated by the fact that we ran our set diagonally in the hall rather
than making two sets. This contributed to some disorientation. Had we made
two shorter sets, parallel with the walls, I don't think the problem would
have occurred.

A comment on another subject entirely. As nice as Morpeth Rant and Speed
the Plow may be; when you are in your late 70s, with bad knees, the minute
you hear a dance mentioned with a rant step, you sit it out! Dances like
that may be fun, but not when the knees give out and you can't even fake
the footwork.

Ben Stein
Burlington Vt. USA
dancers-AT-
compuserve.com
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:14:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: ECD-AT-
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In a message dated 9/13/99 4:47:54 AM, hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com writes:

<< Is the circle right after the star left what was intended?  I would
expect a circle left.   >>

That's another of the great moments of ED. (Cf. one of last year's threads.) 
The star left  dissolving in to the circle right. A different story. Try it, 
you'll love it. Judy-who's-been-planning-to-join-the-camp-class & 
workshop-levels-discussion-but-still-thinking- &-clarifying-own-mind-Grunberg.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:32:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:32:00 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country dance traditions
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000301befe16$44526a20$5598ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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On 9/9/99, Bob Archer wrote:

> I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.

Hello, Bob,

I'm wondering if you would expound on this topic because it is one in which
I am very interested also.

Specifically:

1) what is your hypothesis?

2) in what centuries are you working?

3) what traditions have you identified and how do you define them?

4) what primary sources are you using? what secondary sources?

5) what figures, combinations of figures, steps, and dances are you
examining?

6) are you analyzing the music in conjunction with the dance figures?


Looking forward to hearing your ideas --

Pat Ruggiero

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:55:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:54:22 -0700
From: timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909131855.OAA24279-AT-
smtp7.atl.mindspring.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks,

For what it's worth, the focus may be a tad too narrow.  Having too many 
years studying and performing dances worldwide, I feel that there a lot more 
commonality in terms of the vocabulary of dance movements between various 
cultures which look to be too separated culturally or geographically to be 
related.  The tie seems to be more in terms of using dance to express the 
human condition.

Certainly, there are connections we can trace over time, especially since 
must of this is living ethnology, and as we go more toward the modern time, 
the mobility of society allows for a lot more cross pollination (just look 
what's happened to language).  And of course proximity helps, such as trace 
influences between English dance and Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, French 
movements, and watching how they do/don't come together when crossing the 
great water to America, splitting off into the New England, Southern, Blue 
Grass, Appalachian, branches, which were in turn influenced by other 
inrushes of immigrants, often from completely different places.

In Morrisland there's been a lot of talk comparing some of the movements and 
ritual intent behind English Morris dance and the Romanian Kalushari.  The 
movements and music are radically different (I've danced both), yet the 
common bind is the link to a springtime tradition, and some of the folk 
characters or roles which are manifest.

At the same time, you can find all kinds of links or similarities.  The 
Morris galley is almost exactly the same as a Hungarian Korcos leg spin.  
The English setting step is a padeba (sic) in Balkan and other dance.  Some 
say Scottish movements have varied from their origins, adopting ballet 
movements of the time in an attempt to emulate other classes or culture.
The English rant is almost a Hungarian bokazoe (sic) closing step.  Some of 
the advance/retreat movements in ECD duplicate exactly the approach rituals 
in middle eastern dance, down to the same timing and action.

I guess all I'm saying with all this babble is not to artificially limit 
yourselves to "it's just this".  Yes, drinking from the full faucet of all 
possible dance influence can drown one in flavors, but just know that 
there's a lot more than just our brand of vanilla.  :-)

Thanx for listening,
Ric Goldman


On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 9/9/99, Bob Archer wrote:
>
>> I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
>where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
>English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
>can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.
>
>Hello, Bob,
>
>I'm wondering if you would expound on this topic because it is one in which
>I am very interested also.
>
>Specifically:
>
>1) what is your hypothesis?
>
>2) in what centuries are you working?
>
>3) what traditions have you identified and how do you define them?
>
>4) what primary sources are you using? what secondary sources?
>
>5) what figures, combinations of figures, steps, and dances are you
>examining?
>
>6) are you analyzing the music in conjunction with the dance figures?
>
>
>Looking forward to hearing your ideas --
>
>Pat Ruggiero
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:03:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:03:53 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00fb01befe1a$c7b3b280$d0e1490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The group I do here on Wednesdays I call "Scottish Country Dancing and
More" - the more being borrowing from other dance traditions - especially
with things that are quite similar in one way or another - I've used the
western Cotton Eyed Joe for it's one, two, three beat - The Virginia Reel
for same figures as many Scottish Country dances but with walking steps -
swing dancing (also a one, two three step) and now I'm trying to put
together similar "squares" from square dancing and Scottish (and hope to
talk some of our Irish dancers into including some of their "square" sets as
well) - I agree that it's better to emphasize the similarities and that all
dance forms have a lot to offer.
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
PMB 134, 1436 W. Gray
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: <timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions


> Folks,
>
> For what it's worth, the focus may be a tad too narrow.  Having too many
> years studying and performing dances worldwide, I feel that there a lot
more
> commonality in terms of the vocabulary of dance movements between various
> cultures which look to be too separated culturally or geographically to be
> related.  The tie seems to be more in terms of using dance to express the
> human condition.
>
> Certainly, there are connections we can trace over time, especially since
> must of this is living ethnology, and as we go more toward the modern
time,
> the mobility of society allows for a lot more cross pollination (just look
> what's happened to language).  And of course proximity helps, such as
trace
> influences between English dance and Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German,
French
> movements, and watching how they do/don't come together when crossing the
> great water to America, splitting off into the New England, Southern, Blue
> Grass, Appalachian, branches, which were in turn influenced by other
> inrushes of immigrants, often from completely different places.
>
> In Morrisland there's been a lot of talk comparing some of the movements
and
> ritual intent behind English Morris dance and the Romanian Kalushari.  The
> movements and music are radically different (I've danced both), yet the
> common bind is the link to a springtime tradition, and some of the folk
> characters or roles which are manifest.
>
> At the same time, you can find all kinds of links or similarities.  The
> Morris galley is almost exactly the same as a Hungarian Korcos leg spin.
> The English setting step is a padeba (sic) in Balkan and other dance.
Some
> say Scottish movements have varied from their origins, adopting ballet
> movements of the time in an attempt to emulate other classes or culture.
> The English rant is almost a Hungarian bokazoe (sic) closing step.  Some
of
> the advance/retreat movements in ECD duplicate exactly the approach
rituals
> in middle eastern dance, down to the same timing and action.
>
> I guess all I'm saying with all this babble is not to artificially limit
> yourselves to "it's just this".  Yes, drinking from the full faucet of all
> possible dance influence can drown one in flavors, but just know that
> there's a lot more than just our brand of vanilla.  :-)
>
> Thanx for listening,
> Ric Goldman
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:
> >On 9/9/99, Bob Archer wrote:
> >
> >> I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
> >where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
> >English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
> >can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.
> >
> >Hello, Bob,
> >
> >I'm wondering if you would expound on this topic because it is one in
which
> >I am very interested also.
> >
> >Specifically:
> >
> >1) what is your hypothesis?
> >
> >2) in what centuries are you working?
> >
> >3) what traditions have you identified and how do you define them?
> >
> >4) what primary sources are you using? what secondary sources?
> >
> >5) what figures, combinations of figures, steps, and dances are you
> >examining?
> >
> >6) are you analyzing the music in conjunction with the dance figures?
> >
> >
> >Looking forward to hearing your ideas --
> >
> >Pat Ruggiero
> >
> >

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:11:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:11:04 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Adding to the confusion is the fact that European society has been much more
mobile throughout history than we think.  Just because they didn't have cars
and trains and airplanes doesn't mean that people stayed in one place. There
is a very distant great-grandfather, a Finn, who was reputed to have crossed
the ice to Sweden to avoid conscription into the Russian Army. This sort of
movement happened frequently with people migrating for all sorts of reasons.
There has always been some movemant of people between countries in Europe and
with them went their traditions. Those traditions in turn influenced the culture
of their new home.

During the 19th Century the dancing masters of the ballrooms studied folk traditions
and found "new" steps to introduce to their students. From what I remember of
Vintage classes I have taken, Redowa comes from a Bohemian line dance step.
When it got to Paris it evolved into a turning step. Mazurka moved from Poland
into ballrooms throughout Europe. Borrowing among traditions is not at all exclusive
to this century although we see more of it now because we have more widespread
knowledge of many different traditions. And as Ric finds similarities between
the English Rant and a Hungarian step, I find a close similarity to the Finnish
Polka step. People struggle with Finnish Polka as much as I did with the Rant
at first, but I had no problem learning it because I knew the Rant. Interesting
that my father stated several times that Hungarian is the European language
closest to Finnish. Maybe the Finns and Hungarians share more than a similar
language.  Finnish bears little resemblance to either Russian or the other Nordic
languages except in the southwestern part of Finland that was once under Swedish
rule. I'm told that the language there is Swedish with Finnish endings. The
big dance in Finland is the Tango, much different than Argentine. I herad somewhere
that Tango didn't get to Finland until the 1950's.

One book I read a few years ago on Scottish Country Dance so much as says that
it derived from ECD.

I can remember Hank Chapin writing (I think in the CDS magazine) back in the
'70's about the similarities of movement that he found between Morris and the
dances of the Hopi Indians of New Mexico. I'm sure Morris had no direct influence.
The similarities are more likely because both traditions evolved around ancient
universal rituals. Such similarities can probably be found in Ancient rituals
world-wide.

Andy Peterson in Portland, Oregon

>Ric Goldman wrote:
>For what it's worth, the focus may be a tad too narrow.  Having too many 
>years studying and performing dances worldwide, I feel that there a lot more

>commonality in terms of the vocabulary of dance movements between various 

>cultures which look to be too separated culturally or geographically to be

>related.  The tie seems to be more in terms of using dance to express the 

>human condition.
>
>Certainly, there are connections we can trace over time, especially since 

>must of this is living ethnology, and as we go more toward the modern time,

>the mobility of society allows for a lot more cross pollination (just look

>what's happened to language).  And of course proximity helps, such as trace

>influences between English dance and Irish, Scottish, Welsh, German, French

>movements, and watching how they do/don't come together when crossing the 

>great water to America, splitting off into the New England, Southern, Blue

>Grass, Appalachian, branches, which were in turn influenced by other 
>inrushes of immigrants, often from completely different places.
>
>In Morrisland there's been a lot of talk comparing some of the movements and

>ritual intent behind English Morris dance and the Romanian Kalushari.  The

>movements and music are radically different (I've danced both), yet the 
>common bind is the link to a springtime tradition, and some of the folk 
>characters or roles which are manifest.
>
>At the same time, you can find all kinds of links or similarities.  The 
>Morris galley is almost exactly the same as a Hungarian Korcos leg spin.  

>The English setting step is a padeba (sic) in Balkan and other dance.  Some

>say Scottish movements have varied from their origins, adopting ballet 
>movements of the time in an attempt to emulate other classes or culture.
>The English rant is almost a Hungarian bokazoe (sic) closing step.  Some of

>the advance/retreat movements in ECD duplicate exactly the approach rituals

>in middle eastern dance, down to the same timing and action.
>
>I guess all I'm saying with all this babble is not to artificially limit 
>yourselves to "it's just this".  Yes, drinking from the full faucet of all

>possible dance influence can drown one in flavors, but just know that 
>there's a lot more than just our brand of vanilla.  :-)
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:15:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:15:21 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37ddf609.6af7.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>In a message dated 9/13/99 4:47:54 AM, hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com writes:
>
><< Is the circle right after the star left what was intended?  I would
>expect a circle left.   >>
>
>That's another of the great moments of ED. (Cf. one of last year's threads.)

>The star left  dissolving in to the circle right. A different story. Try it,

>you'll love it. Judy-who's-been-planning-to-join-the-camp-class & 
>workshop-levels-discussion-but-still-thinking- &-clarifying-own-mind-Grunberg.

>
>
I'm with you Judy. There's a lot to think about in that discussion and I haven't
quite gotten my thoughts straight on all of it either.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:21:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:06:47 -0700
From: Stephanie Judy/David Stewart <sjdks-AT-
wkpowerlink.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Advice on Wireless Microphones
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.19990914210647.22578552-AT-
wkpowerlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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At 07:00 09/14/1999 -0800, Gary wrote:

>. . . I want to buy a wireless microphone.   I am interested to
>know about people's experiences with the various possibilities.  I would
>prefer a headset or a button mike.  

I hope people will respond on the list to this one, because I'm interested
in the same topic. I'd also like to know about any experience using a
headset mike for calling and a pick-up on a violin. Will this create
feedback? Is there a way to avoid it?

Many thanks.

Stephanie Judy
Argenta, B.C.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:24:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:24:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the joys of using one
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <22936619.2510a392-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hello:

I bought myself a Samson dual-channel headset mike a couple of years ago.  
While I've found it to be a wonderful way to improve my connection with the 
dancers, I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems I've 
tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I 
venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  It works 
just great at my monthly contra series, but there I have it plugged into its 
own separate amplifier, a small "practice" guitar amp.  Other wireless mikes 
I've borrowed or seen used (Electrovoice is one) don't seem to have this 
problem unless they get directly in front of the speakers.

My original intent in purchasing such a unit was to make it possible to 
trouble-shoot a troubled line in mid-dance (esp when the trouble centered on 
a hazardously hapless beginner) but almost immediately it became worth using 
for so much more than that.  I found myself teaching and calling from the 
floor instead of from the stage, usually positioning myself near the end of 
the second (read: non-center) line, where beginners are most likely to 
cluster.  This makes it easy to see what the beginner-with-beginner couples 
are doing, and to help them out quickly, regardless of the stage height.  
Have you noticed how some people become "deaf" when they get nervous?  The 
wireless also makes it possible to interact more with the dancers outside the 
lines, such as hugging folks as they come in and/or sit down, or resting on a 
chair next to them for a few moments instead of spending the whole evening on 
my feet in one spot.  I can even talk to such folks in private by flipping 
the mike itself out of the way.

But the biggest reward has come within the past year, as I've discovered I 
can dance while calling!  This has been a great new inspiration to me as a 
caller.  Now I don't have to choose between calling and dancing, which had 
been an issue for me at times, especially at the Chico series, since I'm the 
only experienced caller within 1-1/2 hours or so.  Granted, it takes quite a 
bit of concentration, because I'm duty-bound to keep an eye on everyone while 
I dance and call (this requires *lots* of rubbernecking, which detracts from 
flirting somewhat, not to mention twirling), but it's such a kick to interact 
with the dancers so immediately, and I can *demonstrate* the finer aspects of 
timing and styling for a given set of figures on the fly.  I heartily 
encourage other callers to try it!

Reine Wonite
Chico, CA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:55:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:56:23 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dance Camp, Campers & Classes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909151444.KAA05513-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Andy Peterson wrote:

> As for the titles on classes at camps, workshops, etc. I agree with many
> of the people who say the name of a class should reflect its contents. 

I'm not sure how much info you can convey in a title.  I rather like the 
system now used at CDSS weeks at Pinewoods.  The first night, each 
teacher describes the class, what will be covered, the goals, etc.  For 
me, it rarely makes the choices any easier, but at least I can make an 
informed indecision. 

> But then I have spent the last thirty+ years learning to dance and
> realize that I still don't know it all. 

You don't!??  Well darn Andy, since I learned how to dance ECD 
from you and Lyrl, I guess I must not know it all either.  ;-)





====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:25:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Advice on Wireless Microphones
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990915100944.16383C-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
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On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Stephanie Judy/David Stewart wrote:

> I hope people will respond on the list to this one, because I'm interested
> in the same topic. I'd also like to know about any experience using a
> headset mike for calling and a pick-up on a violin. Will this create
> feedback? Is there a way to avoid it?
 
It shouldn't create any more feedback than a headset mike would by itself; 
pickups almost never feed back. On the other hand, they IMHO almost 
never sound good, either -- I much prefer mini-mikes for fiddles.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:44:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:38:09 -0400
From: Paul Rosenberg <homespun-AT-
wizvax.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the joys of using one
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990915203809.007ded40-AT-
mail1.wizvax.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I've been using the Shure headset mike for about 3 to 4 years.  I use it
for about 100 gigs a year now.  I would use it more often if parts lasted
forever, but in the past year I have had to replace certain components.

It's especially useful at Family dances and community dances, where I spend
a lot of time on the floor demonstrating.  For regular contras, it's also
useful but not quite as essential.

I never have a problem with feedback, and the sound is great, and it
adjusts to my head easily.  I've become pretty dependent on it. I think it
cost me around $325 when I purchased it a few years ago.

Before the Shure, I owned a Samsun.  It was much flimsier (very difficult
to adjust to one's head) and had inferior sound and would feed back when
approaching a speaker and would make a horrible sound when you flipped the
switch off sometimes.  Other than thaose complaints, it was mediocre!

Before the Samsun, I had tried a lapel mike (I continue to try it at
various venues).  I've never had any success with them.

Paul Rosenberg


At 03:24 AM 9/15/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Hello:
>
>I bought myself a Samson dual-channel headset mike a couple of years ago.  
>While I've found it to be a wonderful way to improve my connection with the 
>dancers, I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems I've 
>tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I 
>venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  It works 
>just great at my monthly contra series, but there I have it plugged into its 
>own separate amplifier, a small "practice" guitar amp.  Other wireless mikes 
>I've borrowed or seen used (Electrovoice is one) don't seem to have this 
>problem unless they get directly in front of the speakers.
>
>My original intent in purchasing such a unit was to make it possible to 
>trouble-shoot a troubled line in mid-dance (esp when the trouble centered on 
>a hazardously hapless beginner) but almost immediately it became worth using 
>for so much more than that.  I found myself teaching and calling from the 
>floor instead of from the stage, usually positioning myself near the end of 
>the second (read: non-center) line, where beginners are most likely to 
>cluster.  This makes it easy to see what the beginner-with-beginner couples 
>are doing, and to help them out quickly, regardless of the stage height.  
>Have you noticed how some people become "deaf" when they get nervous?  The 
>wireless also makes it possible to interact more with the dancers outside
the 
>lines, such as hugging folks as they come in and/or sit down, or resting
on a 
>chair next to them for a few moments instead of spending the whole evening
on 
>my feet in one spot.  I can even talk to such folks in private by flipping 
>the mike itself out of the way.
>
>But the biggest reward has come within the past year, as I've discovered I 
>can dance while calling!  This has been a great new inspiration to me as a 
>caller.  Now I don't have to choose between calling and dancing, which had 
>been an issue for me at times, especially at the Chico series, since I'm the 
>only experienced caller within 1-1/2 hours or so.  Granted, it takes quite a 
>bit of concentration, because I'm duty-bound to keep an eye on everyone
while 
>I dance and call (this requires *lots* of rubbernecking, which detracts from 
>flirting somewhat, not to mention twirling), but it's such a kick to
interact 
>with the dancers so immediately, and I can *demonstrate* the finer aspects
of 
>timing and styling for a given set of figures on the fly.  I heartily 
>encourage other callers to try it!
>
>Reine Wonite
>Chico, CA
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------Paul Rosenberg
538 Providence Street
Albany, NY 12208-3223
(518) 438-3035
Homespun Occasions telephone: (518)482-9255 or (800)908-4663(home)
Home page: www.homespunoccasions.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:11:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:11:58 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: General Question on Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909160359.XAA17639-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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John Wood sent the following last week (OK, I'm still catching up 
from the backlog of messages while I was at Pinewoods.)

> A bit of both, really. The group in Shelburne -- a Loyalist enclave -- are
> from a re-enactment group, the Prince of Wales American Regiment. On
> certain occasions during the year they are involved in various historical
> events in the area. I'm not really trying to recreate historical dances
> perse, but I do not want to include any figures or complete dances that
> came on the scene AFTER 1786 when many of the original Loyalist settlers
> had moved on to other parts of the country.

That time period doesn't give you a very big window.  Halifax was 
very much a military encampment for the first part of the century.  It 
was staffed with militiamen out of Boston, so I would check there, 
rather than New York (as you asked about in your previous 
message).  In general, I would assume the dances would have been 
much like those done in England at the time.  The _Apted_ book 
should give you some examples from that period and _Fallibroome_ 
also includes quite a few from the right period.

I don't think you'll find much about Nova Scotia dancing directly.  
Kitty and Bob Keller's CD "Performing Arts in Colonial American 
Newspapers, 1690-1783" includes the Halifax papers, but shows 
only 2 references to dancing in Nova Scotia--a dance celebrating 
installation of the new king and an assembly for a visiting officer.  No 
details on the dancing were given.


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:55:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the joys of using one
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990915215203.17022A-100000-AT-
crl2.crl.com>
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On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> I bought myself a Samson dual-channel headset mike a couple of years ago.  
> While I've found it to be a wonderful way to improve my connection with the 
> dancers, I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems I've 
> tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I 
> venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  It works 
> just great at my monthly contra series, but there I have it plugged into its 
> own separate amplifier, a small "practice" guitar amp.  Other wireless mikes 
> I've borrowed or seen used (Electrovoice is one) don't seem to have this 
> problem unless they get directly in front of the speakers.

"Wracking" noises as in squealing feedback? Or something else?

Peace.
Pacul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:01:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:01:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wireless Microphones -- and the frustrations of using some brands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <61e905ae.2511e1a9-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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In a message dated 9/15/1999 9:57:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
pstamler-AT-
crl.com writes:

>  On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:
>  > I bought myself a Samson dual-channel headset mike a couple of years 
ago.  
>  > While I've found it to be a wonderful way to improve my connection with 
the 
>  > dancers, I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems 
I've 
>  > tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I 
>  > venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  
>  
>  "Wracking" noises as in squealing feedback? Or something else?

Paul and all:

It's been quite a while since I've heard it, but as I recall, it wasn't 
squeeling feedback -- it was more like booming static.  Ouch!

Off to Harvest Moon (featuring Bob Dalsemer) in Santa Barbara, CA

Reine Wonite in (yes, still - for the moment) Chico, CA


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:25:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:13:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the frustrations of using some brands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990915231110.16046B-100000-AT-
crl4.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/15/1999 9:57:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> pstamler-AT-
crl.com writes:
> 
> >  On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> >  > I bought myself a Samson dual-channel headset mike a couple of years 
> ago.  
> >  > While I've found it to be a wonderful way to improve my connection with 
> the 
> >  > dancers, I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems 
> I've 
> >  > tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I 
> >  > venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  
> >  
> >  "Wracking" noises as in squealing feedback? Or something else?
> 
> Paul and all:
> 
> It's been quite a while since I've heard it, but as I recall, it wasn't 
> squeeling feedback -- it was more like booming static.  Ouch!

Sounds like a weak transmitter, which got beyond usable range around the 
front of the stage. Or a weak receiver, or both. Why it would work better 
with a guitar practice amp, I don't know, but in any case, you're better 
off with a more professional setup. We have a Nady, which has worked fine 
for us.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:06:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:49:07 -0700
From: "Gary D. Shapiro" <garyes-AT-
iname.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the joys of using one
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04210100b40641d4df1a-AT-
[24.8.188.38]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3.0.6.32.19990915203809.007ded40-AT-
mail1.wizvax.net>

My Samson sets off a furious squeal on one particular mixer it's been 
plugged into. It has to do with the sequence of turning on the mixer 
and plugging in and powering on the base unit. By doing things in the 
"correct" order it does not squeal. Unfortunately, I don't recall 
what the correct sequence is, and the one who knows is away.

At 03:24 AM 9/15/99 -0400, Reine wrote:

> I've had compatibility troubles with some of the sound systems I've
>tried plugging it into, the result being horrible wracking noises when I
>venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.  It works
>just great at my monthly contra series, but there I have it plugged into its
>own separate amplifier, a small "practice" guitar amp.  Other wireless mikes
>I've borrowed or seen used (Electrovoice is one) don't seem to have this
>problem unless they get directly in front of the speakers.

--
Gary D. Shapiro   garyes-AT-
iname.com      <-- save and use this address
                   garyes-AT-
crosswinds.net <-- send "email bounced" reports
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:13:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Wireless Microphones -- and the frustrations of using some brands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909161412.KAA01223-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sounds like you could have used a "true diversity" receiver: two antennas,
and the receiver picks the best signal.  This tends to eliminate the
"dead spots" of reception.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:06:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:06:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the frustrations of using some	brands
To: pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com (Dan Pearl)
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <ef59e26a.2512616e-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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In a message dated 9/16/1999 7:15:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com writes:

> Sounds like you could have used a "true diversity" receiver: two antennas,
>  and the receiver picks the best signal.  This tends to eliminate the
>  "dead spots" of reception.

My unit (a Samson VLX-TD) *is* one with two antennas and True Diversity.  My 
problem isn't dead spots, it's terrible noises that are not the typical 
feedback squeal.

I'm very intrigued by Gary's report that he could solve what sounds to be a 
similar tendency with his Samson by turning on the various components of the 
system (base unit, belt pack, PA) in a specific order.  Given that I spent 
well over $300 on my unit (via Musician's Friend in Oregon), I'd like to 
avoid shelling out for another!

Optimistically,
Reine
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:37:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:37:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the frustrations of using some brands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9909161111480.17041-100000-AT-
seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:

[snip]

> My unit (a Samson VLX-TD) *is* one with two antennas and True Diversity.  My 
> problem isn't dead spots, it's terrible noises that are not the typical 
> feedback squeal.

> I'm very intrigued by Gary's report that he could solve what sounds to be a 
> similar tendency with his Samson by turning on the various components of the 
> system (base unit, belt pack, PA) in a specific order.  Given that I spent 
> well over $300 on my unit (via Musician's Friend in Oregon), I'd like to 
> avoid shelling out for another!
> 
> Optimistically,
> Reine
> 

A property of many of the receivers is that they may produce a very
high-level noise at the audio output (which then goes to the mixer/PA)
when no "carrier" is received.  The "carrier" is the radio signal produced
when the transmitter (i.e. body pack) is on, whether or not there is a
signal from the microphone.  Most receivers have a "squelch" setting or
control (some do it automatically) which keeps this noise from getting to
the output -- however, this often affects the sensitivity of the receiver,
too -- the more "squelch", the less sensitivity.  

The way to set this control, if there is one (it may be a screwdriver
adjustment through a small hole in the back of the receiver) is to turn
the PA down so the noise won't damage the speakers or your ears, then turn
the transmitter off and adjust the control to the point where the noise
starts or stops, and then back off a bit more (on the "noise off"
direction!); experience will tell you just how much to do this.  Then turn
the transmitter on and adjust the level for satisfactory voice response --
it will probably be different from what you had before.

If the setting is left where noise is produced when the transmitter is
off, you can avoid it by turning on the transmitter before turning the
gain up on the PA for the channel that the receiver is connected to, or by
turning the receiver on after tthe transmitter.  Turning it off should be
in the reverse order -- turn off the receiver or turn down the gain on
that channel before turning off the transmitter.  Using the gain controls
is preferable to turning the receiver on & off because that may introduce
loud pops into the amplified sound.

The disadvantage of working this way is that if your transmitter battery
runs down to the point that it reduces the carrier output significantly,
you will abruptly get this noise again.  You will also get it if you have
signal drop-out for any of the usual reasons that that happens (too far
from the receiver, interfering reflections of the radio signal, obstacles
blocking the radio path, etc.).  So it is far better to adjust this
control, if you have one, so that you don't get these noises, even at the
expense of some receiver sensitivity.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

ECD dancer, caller, and user of wireless microphones and official
elektroniker for the Department of Ophthalmology at the University of
Michigan, which doesn't yet (but just wait!) use any wireless mics in any
of its research laboratories.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:08:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:08:22 -0400
From: Steven J Gold <sjg-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Wireless Microphones -- and the joys of using one
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04220503b406d3aa7798-AT-
141.213.226.230>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <22936619.2510a392-AT-
aol.com>

>At 3:24 AM -0400 on 9/15/99, Reine Wonite <>Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com said:

[[[text deleted]]]

>....the result being horrible wracking noises when I
>venture out from the stage beyond the plane of the PA speakers.

"Horrible wracking noises"??
...Sounds like some of the bands I've worked with!

:-)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:50:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:27:24 -0400
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn, Bury Fair
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990916.204222.-154341.27.catdancer-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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> In a message dated 9/13/99 4:47:54 AM, Hugh Stewart wrote:

< Is the circle right after the star left what was intended?  I 
> would expect a circle left.   >>

>And JBGrun-AT-
aol.com wrote: 
> That's another of the great moments of ED. (Cf. one of last year's 
> threads.) 
> The star left  dissolving in to the circle right. A different story. 
> Try it, 
> you'll love it. 


Yes, Hugh, Judy is right.  Easter Morn is a wonderful dance - each move f
l o w s into the next, expecially the star left that melts into the
circle right.  Try it.  You really will love it.

Helen Tuzio
New York
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:52:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:41:41 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Easter Morn
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990918.143723.-101457.2.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Another thought re Easter Morn, a great dance that is being done a lot
but one you want to keep doing.  Initially, I thought that as a first
couple
(at least the man's part)  the transition to the gate figure was very
jarring. Switching from the circle to the gate was often done with a jolt
and
an interruption of the flow.  Then (when switching to being second man)
I eventually realized that with the proper arm tension I could smooth out
that transition
and turn it into yet another 'great moment' in that dance.  Try it,
y'all, and
callers, do emphasize this elegant fine point.  (Note:  I'm behind in
catching 
up on my e-mail reading.  If this has been covered previously, my
apologies.) 



++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:24:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:23:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Easter Morn
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <8078510c.2515409a-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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In a message dated 9/18/99 2:57:52 PM, solweber-AT-
juno.com writes:

<< Then (when switching to being second man)
I eventually realized that with the proper arm tension I could smooth out
that transition
and turn it into yet another 'great moment' in that dance.  >>

Right on, Sol! Works the same for the 2nd woman. Judy. Erna-Lynne, wherever 
you are, I hope you're listening (or reading.) We really dig the dance!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:51:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 18:49:56 -0400
From: MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990918.185027.-836081.0.marthaCD-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
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To all:
	Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a comma
delimited database
on a rewritable medium that could be distributed at cost to those who
wanted it.
New dances and collections are coming out so quickly that indexes are
outdated almost as soon as they are published.
New information could be added to this list so we could always have an
up-to-date index.
Martha
Martha Davey
25-14 37 ST,
Astoria, NY 11103
(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:00:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:00:28 -0700
From: timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909182300.TAA11316-AT-
smtp5.mindspring.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'll take it a step better.  I can put up an online file or web page 
containing updates from any and all, which would then be (almost) 
immediately available to everyone.

So, the question is to folk - what would you like to see in such an 
index?  Also, what considerations should there be for access to it, how 
to update it (I can create a web form for submissions), verification, 
and insuring that the index doesn't somehow conflict with published or 
copyrighted works?

Thanx, Ric Goldman
timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com

On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
>To all:
>	Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a 
comma
>delimited database
>on a rewritable medium that could be distributed at cost to those who
>wanted it.
>New dances and collections are coming out so quickly that indexes are
>outdated almost as soon as they are published.
>New information could be added to this list so we could always have an
>up-to-date index.
>Martha
>Martha Davey
>25-14 37 ST,
>Astoria, NY 11103
>(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:08:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:14:02 -0400
From: Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990919091402.01243124-AT-
nycap.rr.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

To all:

I have a print edition of an old index (1986) of English and American
country dances by Peter Rogers which was produced by CDSS. I have found it
to be invaluable over the years. I think it was done in a Dbase 2-3?
format. If one could get that edition in electronic format, it would be a
good place to start building a new database of just English dances.

If the index were online, it would be great if it could be in a database.
Then anyone could search, sort, submit records and maybe even create a list
of dances for an event online.

Don Bell
Albany, NY
http://www.rpi.edu/~belld2/rpiflyer.htm
  

At 04:00 PM 9/18/99 -0700, you wrote:
>I'll take it a step better.  I can put up an online file or web page 
>containing updates from any and all, which would then be (almost) 
>immediately available to everyone.
>
>So, the question is to folk - what would you like to see in such an 
>index?  Also, what considerations should there be for access to it, how 
>to update it (I can create a web form for submissions), verification, 
>and insuring that the index doesn't somehow conflict with published or 
>copyrighted works?
>
>Thanx, Ric Goldman
>timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
>
>On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
>>To all:
>>	Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a 
>comma
>>delimited database
>>on a rewritable medium that could be distributed at cost to those who
>>wanted it.
>>New dances and collections are coming out so quickly that indexes are
>>outdated almost as soon as they are published.
>>New information could be added to this list so we could always have an
>>up-to-date index.
>>Martha
>>Martha Davey
>>25-14 37 ST,
>>Astoria, NY 11103
>>(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
>>
>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:44:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:44:09 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37E4E8A9.ED247950-AT-
home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <199909182300.TAA11316-AT-
smtp5.mindspring.com>


Alan Paterson, a Scottish country dancer in Switzerland has, with
considerable assistance by dancers throughout the world, developed
DanceData - a SCD database and a set of application programs to search
the database. It contains a wonderful index of about 9000 dances, their
devisors or sources, recommended tunes, and music recorded to suit many
of the dances. One can also limit the search to dances of a particular
length, tempo, or with particular figures. Data can also be printed if
need be.

The project was discussed on the SCD list for quite a while before Alan
took on the task of developing the programs. They can be downloaded for
free from his website http://www.scottap.com/dancedata/index.htm 
Regular updates have been offered over the past couple of years.

If you don't want to maintain the files locally they are also accessible
on the web via the Strathspey Bulletin Board archives.
http://www.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/strathspey/

If one pays the princely sum of $10, Alan will provide a registration
file which allows the addition of local information about books of
dances, music, and recordings that one owns. As a teacher, this is one
of the most valuable aspects of this database for me. Can't imagine how
I coped with my hunt and peck system for so long. 

Lots of people provided Alan with data for the index, and helped with
the task of editing and proofing the data. I am sure he'd be pleased to
offer insights and comments should anyone from this list be interested
in taking on a similar task.

Marjorie McLaughlin
San Diego, CA


timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com wrote:
> 
> I'll take it a step better.  I can put up an online file or web page
> containing updates from any and all, which would then be (almost)
> immediately available to everyone.
> 
> So, the question is to folk - what would you like to see in such an
> index?  Also, what considerations should there be for access to it, how
> to update it (I can create a web form for submissions), verification,
> and insuring that the index doesn't somehow conflict with published or
> copyrighted works?
> 
> Thanx, Ric Goldman
> timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
> 
> On Sat, 18 Sep 1999, MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> >To all:
> >       Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a
> comma
> >delimited database
> >on a rewritable medium that could be distributed at cost to those who
> >wanted it.
> >New dances and collections are coming out so quickly that indexes are
> >outdated almost as soon as they are published.
> >New information could be added to this list so we could always have an
> >up-to-date index.
> >Martha
> >Martha Davey
> >25-14 37 ST,
> >Astoria, NY 11103
> >(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
> >
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:51:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:57:51 -0400
From: "Mary K. Friday" <marykfriday-AT-
erols.com>
Subject: Re: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: brad.foster-AT-
cdss.org, nkelley-AT-
aristotle.net
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37E4F9EF.4BF6-AT-
erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <009DE5F5.0FF88792.6-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

Before we reinvent the wheel, Neil Kelley has already done an enormous
amount of work in updating and expanding Peter Rogers' index.  Let's see
if we can start with that.  CDSS has been trying to figure out some way
to publish or otherwise make it available, but the Society has limited
resources and many publication projects vying for them.  I've long
thought having it electronically available, preferably on the Web, would
be ideal.  I should have thought sooner to enlist help from this list.  

Personally, I still use Peter Rogers' index regularly, along with the
British index, "What Was That Dance?" compiled by Freda McIntyre and Bob
Howe, second edition published in 1992.

Mary Kay Friday
Washington, D.C.

> In response to Ric Goldman's generous offer:

> >I'll take it a step better.  I can put up an online file or web page
> >containing updates from any and all, which would then be (almost)
> >immediately available to everyone.

Don Bell <dbell1-AT-
nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> I have a print edition of an old index (1986) of English and American
> country dances by Peter Rogers which was produced by CDSS. I have found it
> to be invaluable over the years. I think it was done in a Dbase 2-3?
> format. If one could get that edition in electronic format, it would be a
> good place to start building a new database of just English dances.
> 
> If the index were online, it would be great if it could be in a database.
> Then anyone could search, sort, submit records and maybe even create a list
> of dances for an event online.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:54:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:04:13 -0700
From: John Carver <jcarver-AT-
islandnet.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wedding dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990919180413.01ccf350-AT-
pop.islandnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Had a good one once but I lost it.

A few years back I called a dance at a wedding and included a dance 
I remember only being referred to a the "wedding dance". Another 
wedding coming up and I can't locate the notes.

The dance had the bride and groom as top couple, and included a reel
which wound the length of the set. I think the bride led the reel, and
each dancer would honour the bride as they passed. The rest of the 
dance isn't that memorable, it was the interaction in the reel that
made it. I guess I could create something, but I'd like to hear if 
this rings a bell for anyone (pun if you like).

It was in a collection of English dances, but not any that I have on
hand. Must have lent it out...

John Carver

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:43:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:37:09 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Renaissance Dance in Cambridge, MA
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04210105b40be78074af-AT-
[24.128.25.60]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Ever wonder what dancers did before John Playford published his 
books?  Well, it turns out that there were people  writing dance 
manuals for about 200 years before Playford...

Once again, there will be not one but two opportunities* to learn, 
practice, and enjoy the dances of the Renaissance (Italian, English, 
and French) in Cambridge.  We'll also do some of the earlier Playford 
dances, with early style steps, and explore some of the English dance 
sources that immediately precede Playford.  The earliest dances will 
be reconstructed from Italian and French sources, but were danced all 
over Europe, including England.

The 4th Tuesday Renaissance Dance starts up again next week, 
September 28th, at the Old Cambridge Baptist Church, just outside 
Harvard Square, 1151 Mass Ave.  The dance runs from 7:30 pm to 
approximately 10:00, and $5 donations are requested.  Period 
refreshments will be served at the break.

In September, John Tyson, of Renaissonics, will be playing various 
recorders as well as pipe & tabor, and Meredith Courtney will be 
teaching and leading dances.  All dances will be taught; beginners 
are welcome, and it is not necessary to bring a partner.

Even if you don't dance, but just play the stuff, you can get 
something out of learning how the dances go, and what tempi are right 
for them in practice, as opposed to merely sounding good.  Sometimes 
(though not in September), we welcome sit-in musicians; contact me if 
interested.

Not sure you'll like it?  Come try it out for free.  The dance is 
supported by donations, not a required fee, and we don't want your 
money if you're not having fun!  Its also supported by the CDS Boston 
Centre, which makes this series possible.

For more information, to volunteer, to get directions, or just to 
chat, write me at eclectic-AT-
mit.edu, or call me at (617) 964-7684.

--Mike Bergman

* "two opportunities" refers of course to Renaissonics' own 
renaissance dance series, "Renaissance Dancing for All", which runs 
on 1st or 2nd Fridays, and which has already started its season.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:27:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:27:29 -0400
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Levi Jackson Mountain Folk Festival Weekend
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909201527.LAA890184-AT-
pimout3-int.prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Just a reminder that the annual Levi Jackson Dance Weekend is upcoming
September 24-26, this coming weekend. I'm not sure how much, if any, room
for drop-ins or late registrants remains (probably more of the first than
the latter), but Joe Tarter of Berea would know, and can be reached at
(606) 986-1986. 

Hope to see some of you there on Saturday! (domestic concerns preclude my
presence on Friday).

Susan Booker,
still exhilarated from
the Atlanta weekend
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:31:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:30:43 -0400
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Oops
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909201530.LAA6791554-AT-
pimout1-int.prodigy.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Should have made clear that the Levi Jackson Dance Weekend is held in the
eponymous  Levi Jackson State Park just outside of London, KY, two hours
south of Lexington (and an hour and a half north of Knoxville) via I-75.
The great World Chicken Festival coincides in London this weekend.
Something for everyone.

Susan Booker
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:17:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:23:25 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909201716.KAA18644-AT-
wolfenet.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com> wrote:

> 	Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a comma
> delimited database
> on a rewritable medium that could be distributed at cost to those who
> wanted it.
> New dances and collections are coming out so quickly that indexes are
> outdated almost as soon as they are published.
> New information could be added to this list so we could always have an
> up-to-date index.

There is a book available called "What was that Dance?" which 
lists the contents of a number of collections - I have a feeling it 
contained over 3000 dances. I have the first edition and it has been 
invaluable over the years. I believe there is a second edition out 
now.

An online version would be wonderful though, particularly if there 
was an easy way for it to be updated.

Bob




----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:11:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:11:12 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Oops
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37e6e940.6c40.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_ec9qxByejmT0wcufx4yjRQ)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_ec9qxByejmT0wcufx4yjRQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net> wrote:
>The great World Chicken Festival coincides in London this weekend.
>Something for everyone.

And I have to stay in Portland for Scandinavian performances Saturday and Sunday.

Drat.

Andy

PS: The attached shows how to clean the bugs off your car.

--Boundary_(ID_ec9qxByejmT0wcufx4yjRQ)
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--Boundary_(ID_ec9qxByejmT0wcufx4yjRQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:31:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:31:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sue Wartell <swartell-AT-
cas.org> (swartell-AT-
cas.org, ext. 3387)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dance database for ECD
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: swartell-AT-
cas.org
Message-ID: <9909211031.AA16374-AT-
cas.org>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


I've also got the DanceData program that Marjorie mentioned, and like it a
lot.  It does not contain any directions for dances (for many reasons,
including copyright issues), but it's a very useful tool for finding where
the directions or music for a dance may be found, and if you pay Alan his
nominal fee, it's great for pulling together a program based on things for
which you have full directions and (recorded) music.  There are also
annotation capabilities.

The last time the idea of a computer index of English Country Dances came
up, I sent a note to Alan Paterson, who wrote DanceData, asking if he might
be willing to share the basic design of this database.


My question to Alan:

I know there are people in the English Country Dance community who have been
wishing for software similar to this for tracking English dances.  I haven't
said anything about your efforts, but it seems that the basic data structure
would work.  I don't know how you might feel about sharing all your hard
work...


His response:

...regarding the ECD community.  If there is ever anyone with the necessary
computer knowledge in a position to duplicate this, or even be able to feed
in the data, then I am willing to help.


I don't currently have time for this, though I would LOVE to do it.  However
I'd be willing to put anyone interested who might have the time, interest,
and expertise in contact with Alan.  Do note that I originally raised this
question with him back in March, 1998, so we would have to check and see if
he was still willing to help.

Sue Wartell
Columbus OH
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:45:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:45:38 +0100
From: Hugh Stewart <hugh-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country Dance Index
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37E79A12.7A929A0D-AT-
ugsolutions.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <199909201716.KAA18644-AT-
wolfenet.com>

Bob Archer wrote:
> 
> MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com> wrote:
> 
> >       Wouldn't it be wonderful if a group effort be made to create a comma
> > delimited database
> 
> There is a book available called "What was that Dance?" which
> lists the contents of a number of collections - I have a feeling it
> contained over 3000 dances. I have the first edition and it has been
> invaluable over the years. I believe there is a second edition out
> now.
> 
> An online version would be wonderful though, particularly if there
> was an easy way for it to be updated.
> 
> Bob
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> -- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

There is an online version (well, Rhod had it on an FTP site and I
snarfed a copy ages ago); I am working on trying to make a Web interface
to it (along with the obvious hooks to let people add to the database).

Nag me if I have not got it sorted out within a month.

Hugh Stewart
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:18:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:14 +0100
From: graham-AT-
gcknight.demon.co.uk
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <E11TySl-000HGL-0A-AT-
finch-post-10.mail.demon.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I have to report the death of Margaret Whaley, from England, at about 1.30 a.m. BST on Thursday, 23rd September.

She will be much missed by many in the dance community in Oxfordshire and also much further afield.

May she rest in peace.

Graham

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:34:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:41:42 -0700
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909231834.LAA28315-AT-
wolfenet.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 9/9/99, Bob Archer wrote:
> 
> > I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
> where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
> English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
> can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.
> 
> Hello, Bob,
> 
> I'm wondering if you would expound on this topic because it is one in which
> I am very interested also.
> 
> Specifically:
> 
> 1) what is your hypothesis?
> 
> 2) in what centuries are you working?
> 
> 3) what traditions have you identified and how do you define them?
> 
> 4) what primary sources are you using? what secondary sources?
> 
> 5) what figures, combinations of figures, steps, and dances are you
> examining?
> 
> 6) are you analyzing the music in conjunction with the dance figures?

From the nature of your questions I suspect I am dealing with this 
topic on a much more superficial level than you are. I'll give you as 
much background as I have.

I started thinking about the issue when planning my programme for 
Pinewoods English / American week. I am used to calling at 
workshops and festivals in the UK where I am not usually called 
upon to do an entire weeks worth of purely English dances. With 
the exception of one evening dance, everything I did at E/A week 
was nominally an English dance.

The particular traditions I was concerned with were English, 
American and Scottish - they're the ones I am most familiar with, 
and seemed to me to have large areas of overlap. Again, these 
categories can be further split - under the "English" headline we 
can list 17th / 18th century, traditional and ceilidh dances, under 
the "American" headline we could have contras, early American, 
New England squares, southern squares, western squares and (I'm 
sure) many more.

There are dances which I think fall firmly into one category or 
another - I am not trying to claim that "Newcastle" is an American 
dance, or that "Shadrack's Delight" was one that Playford missed. 
What interested me was the grey area where dances and traditions 
overlap.

I think part of this question comes from the fact that I was brought 
up dancing in the UK where it is common to do some English 
dances, some contras and some squares in the same evening 
which means that there maybe isn't the strict separation between 
traditions that there is in the US.

My hypothesis was that it was impossible to pull out one single 
element that could be used to categorise a dance - it was a 
combination of elements. My aim in the workshop was to show this 
by doing dances to the "wrong" music, taking a dance and doing 
essentially the same figures but in a different formation and 
generally trying to confuse the issue.

So many of the figures crop up in different dance traditions, 
possibly with minor variations. As well as the usual compliments of 
turns, stars, circles, reels (or heys :-) ) and casts, figures like 
contra corners, petronella, ocean waves and grand square cross 
over between traditions.

I have to say that the workshop participants were not fooled by any 
of my tricks and saw through everything I tried. After I did each 
dance, I asked what type of dance they though it was. A common 
answer was "you just made that up", or in several cases "early 
American".

The one dance which did raise some interesting points was "Ted's 
Triplet #15". Although we didn't have time to try it to different 
music, it's the sort of dance that could be done in a smooth, 
elegant 17th century style, or a smooth zesty contra style, or as a 
rant, or as a Scottish dance. Perhaps it's the ultimate "generic" 
dance.

Let me try and get this discussion onto examples rather than my 
ramblings:

The Short and the Tall by Ron Coxall. 4 couple longways

This dance is written by an Englishman, I know it has appeared on 
at least one ball programme in the US. Its distinctive figure consist 
of two stars - one at the top of the set, one at the bottom - which 
change ends when one person each star leads the rest of their star 
into a single file line that goes past the other line, then curls round 
to reform the star.

Something very similar to this appears in modern American square 
dancing - that might well have been where Ron got the inspiration 
for this dance. So is it English or American?


The Magnificent Seven by Bob Archer

(see www.hottub.demon.co.uk for the dance description)
All of the moves in this dance appear regularly in English and 
American traditions - the formation doesn't appear in either. I know 
that Mike Richardson has called this for a group of contra dancers, 
who apparently enjoyed it until he mentioned that it was an English 
dance. When I call this dance in the UK, I always ask the band for 
32 bar American reels. English or American?


T.A.G. by Roger Whynot

This has every American dance credential you could think of - 
written by an American caller of American dances using an old 
square dance figure, yet the dance is now popular on the English 
ceilidh scene with people who wouldn't go to an American contra 
dance if you paid them.

I think my basic question is:

English or American?

with a follow up question of:

Does it matter?

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:16:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:19:42 -0500
From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <008f01bf063b$a61cb6c0$a422a3d1-AT-
gloria>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
I think my basic question is:

English or American?

with a follow up question of:

Does it matter?

Bob
----------------------------------------------------------

The dances called by Bob this summer caused me some serious
problems.  My feet are not of the best, and when dancing American
(squares, contras) I wear heavy oxford shoes that give a lot of
support.  English is time for lighter "jazz" shoes so smooth
steps are easy.  Scottish Country Dancing usually finds me in
ballet slippers, all the better to do the fancy foot-work.

How does one rant in light-weight shoes? How does one move in
that smooth forward-leaning ECD style while wearing clunkers?

If I had my way, I would categorize dances by the footwear best
suited.  <g>

Gloria Krusemeyer
Northfield, MN

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:52:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:52:39 +0100
From: Eldridge Keith <Keith.Eldridge-AT-
labsystems.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <D79AEA93E3FDD111B0310000F806269CEEBDE9-AT-
greendale.labsystems.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Gloria < gloria-AT-
microassist.com > wrote :
>...
> How does one rant in light-weight shoes?

Quieter :-)

Regards
	Elmo
-- 
--Keith Elmo Eldridge
--Manchester, England
--elmo-AT-
opsis.cix.co.uk   Keith.Eldridge-AT-
labsystems.com
--I am, therefore I dance. I dance therefore I am.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:57:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:55:59 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Country dance traditions
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bf068c$2636fff0$a998ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Bob, thanks for taking the time to write.

We're going away for a long dance weekend, so it'll be a bit before I can
respond more fully.

Regards,

Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Bob Archer
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 2:42 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Country dance traditions


Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 9/9/99, Bob Archer wrote:
>
> > I tried running one session called "What is an English Dance?"
> where I attempted to show that the cross over in figures between
> English / American and Scottish dance forms is so prevalent that it
> can be difficult to say for certain what tradition a dance is from.
>
> Hello, Bob,
>
> I'm wondering if you would expound on this topic because it is one in
which
> I am very interested also.
>
> Specifically:
>
> 1) what is your hypothesis?
>
> 2) in what centuries are you working?
>
> 3) what traditions have you identified and how do you define them?
>
> 4) what primary sources are you using? what secondary sources?
>
> 5) what figures, combinations of figures, steps, and dances are you
> examining?
>
> 6) are you analyzing the music in conjunction with the dance figures?

>From the nature of your questions I suspect I am dealing with this
topic on a much more superficial level than you are. I'll give you as
much background as I have.

I started thinking about the issue when planning my programme for
Pinewoods English / American week. I am used to calling at
workshops and festivals in the UK where I am not usually called
upon to do an entire weeks worth of purely English dances. With
the exception of one evening dance, everything I did at E/A week
was nominally an English dance.

The particular traditions I was concerned with were English,
American and Scottish - they're the ones I am most familiar with,
and seemed to me to have large areas of overlap. Again, these
categories can be further split - under the "English" headline we
can list 17th / 18th century, traditional and ceilidh dances, under
the "American" headline we could have contras, early American,
New England squares, southern squares, western squares and (I'm
sure) many more.

There are dances which I think fall firmly into one category or
another - I am not trying to claim that "Newcastle" is an American
dance, or that "Shadrack's Delight" was one that Playford missed.
What interested me was the grey area where dances and traditions
overlap.

I think part of this question comes from the fact that I was brought
up dancing in the UK where it is common to do some English
dances, some contras and some squares in the same evening
which means that there maybe isn't the strict separation between
traditions that there is in the US.

My hypothesis was that it was impossible to pull out one single
element that could be used to categorise a dance - it was a
combination of elements. My aim in the workshop was to show this
by doing dances to the "wrong" music, taking a dance and doing
essentially the same figures but in a different formation and
generally trying to confuse the issue.

So many of the figures crop up in different dance traditions,
possibly with minor variations. As well as the usual compliments of
turns, stars, circles, reels (or heys :-) ) and casts, figures like
contra corners, petronella, ocean waves and grand square cross
over between traditions.

I have to say that the workshop participants were not fooled by any
of my tricks and saw through everything I tried. After I did each
dance, I asked what type of dance they though it was. A common
answer was "you just made that up", or in several cases "early
American".

The one dance which did raise some interesting points was "Ted's
Triplet #15". Although we didn't have time to try it to different
music, it's the sort of dance that could be done in a smooth,
elegant 17th century style, or a smooth zesty contra style, or as a
rant, or as a Scottish dance. Perhaps it's the ultimate "generic"
dance.

Let me try and get this discussion onto examples rather than my
ramblings:

The Short and the Tall by Ron Coxall. 4 couple longways

This dance is written by an Englishman, I know it has appeared on
at least one ball programme in the US. Its distinctive figure consist
of two stars - one at the top of the set, one at the bottom - which
change ends when one person each star leads the rest of their star
into a single file line that goes past the other line, then curls round
to reform the star.

Something very similar to this appears in modern American square
dancing - that might well have been where Ron got the inspiration
for this dance. So is it English or American?


The Magnificent Seven by Bob Archer

(see www.hottub.demon.co.uk for the dance description)
All of the moves in this dance appear regularly in English and
American traditions - the formation doesn't appear in either. I know
that Mike Richardson has called this for a group of contra dancers,
who apparently enjoyed it until he mentioned that it was an English
dance. When I call this dance in the UK, I always ask the band for
32 bar American reels. English or American?


T.A.G. by Roger Whynot

This has every American dance credential you could think of -
written by an American caller of American dances using an old
square dance figure, yet the dance is now popular on the English
ceilidh scene with people who wouldn't go to an American contra
dance if you paid them.

I think my basic question is:

English or American?

with a follow up question of:

Does it matter?

Bob

----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:52:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:52:39 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #594
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <CdIk+MAnK$63EwFp-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

In message <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>, system-AT-
SSRL
04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes

>T.A.G. by Roger Whynot
>
>This has every American dance credential you could think of - 
>written by an American caller of American dances using an old 
>square dance figure, yet the dance is now popular on the English 
>ceilidh scene with people who wouldn't go to an American contra 
>dance if you paid them.

I don't know how it started out in the eCeilidh scene - but I first met
it in a festival in Felixstowe and it was done to real hall-rocker of a
tune - 'Thrash Polka' by Earthworks.

Quite often it's the tune/dance combination which pushes a dance forward
over here. The question is whether the dance then maintains its
popularity - it is still done, but not as commonly (as far as I can tell
:-)
-- 
Regards,
  Martin Kiff
  mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:17:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:15:22 +0200
From: Martin Kiff <mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #594
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <QNvgKRA6f$63EwnK-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>

In message <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>, system-AT-
SSRL
04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes

>The last time the idea of a computer index of English Country Dances came
>up, I sent a note to Alan Paterson, who wrote DanceData, asking if he might
>be willing to share the basic design of this database.

I think I saw this topic skip past somewhere along the line - one of the
problems of getting a digest version is that you can too easily miss
complete topics if you don't read a few messages. Worse if you somehow
miss the digests for a month or so. Ouch!

My feeling is there we are getting to the stage the web can be the
reference for dances rather than a database. The important bit is that
dances are written up in a standard fashion (cf 'ABC' format for writing
down tunes) and enthusiasts to maintain an index.

The web technologies are moving remarkably fast - up until recently you
couldn't point at a natural way of writing up this information: ABC for
example is a text file with prefixes for each line; usable, pragmatic
but you couldn't use the ABC writeup of a tune as the basis of a web
page. What is changing is that a new format is appearing - one which can
be tailored to include details in terms that both a person can
understand and can be displayed on the Web.

The buzzword is XML. Of course, it doesn't have any in-built knowledge
about dance, more it allows you to decide on you own terms for what
information you want to include in a dance description. Then, as a
second step, you can say how you want these bits of information
displayed.

The computing tools for writing stuff in XML are (probably) still on the
way but I think we can do some thinking in advance - if you were putting
a dance on the web, what bits, parts or details, would you include?
-- 
Regards,
  Martin Kiff
  mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:15:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:24:27 -0800
From: Laurie Andres <lcandres-AT-
earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #594
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37EDD800.2CF68B4F-AT-
earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu> <QNvgKRA6f$63EwnK-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>

Ack! Oh no, not more standardization! The death of local tradition and vibrancy.

Regards,
Laurie Andres

Martin Kiff wrote:

> In message <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu>, system-AT-
SSRL
> 04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes
>
> {snip}
>
> My feeling is there we are getting to the stage the web can be the
> reference for dances rather than a database. The important bit is that
> dances are written up in a standard fashion (cf 'ABC' format for writing
> down tunes) and enthusiasts to maintain an index.
>
> {snip}
> --
> Regards,
>   Martin Kiff
>   mgk-AT-
webfeet.co.uk

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 04:53:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:49:46 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What's it called?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990926134946.007b9e30-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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A few years ago, I learnt 	a New England contra and have since used it from
time to time in classes. Unfortunately I never made a note of its name. 

Could any of you experts recognize the dance?
 - Dosidos your opposite.
 - Take part's hand and dosidos in tandem round the other couple.
 - Circle left, arches ...
I'd never met dosidos in tandem before and liked this continuous clockwise
movement.

Does it ring a bell?


Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
    ---
   http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france/
(dancing, dances, cycling ...)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:20:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:19:42 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's it called?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205503b413dbe1686b-AT-
[206.72.193.210]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.19990926134946.007b9e30-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>

At 1:49 PM +0200 9/26/99, M Sheffield wrote:
>- Take part's hand and dosidos in tandem round the other couple.

you mean, like a pousette?

Mary Beth <-- ranting away quickly!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:16:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:56:01 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What's it called? (2)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990926165601.0079b350-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Sorry, my last message should have read:

 - Dosidos your opposite.
 - Take part's hand and dosidos in tandem round the other couple.
 - Circle left halfway, half right& left through back to places.
 - Arches ...
Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:47:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:26:09 +0200
From: M Sheffield <martin.sheffield-AT-
wanadoo.fr>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's it called?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990926182609.0079a960-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <3.0.5.32.19990926134946.007b9e30-AT-
pop.wanadoo.fr>


>>- Take part's hand and dosidos in tandem round the other couple.
>
>you mean, like a pousette?
>

No, only nearer hands are held, partners dancing side by side.

Martin,
in Grenoble, France.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:25:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:28:30 -0400
From: "Albert A. Blank" <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37EE81EE.86BD8833-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <009DE9E2.E43C248C.1-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu> <CdIk+MAnK$63EwFp-AT-
webfeet.co.uk>

    Recently, I heard a talk in which it was said that Elizabeth I
participated in and enjoyed country dances in her youth when she was safely
away from court and not considered as a possible heir to the thrown.  Also,
it was said that when Leicester offered the services of his dancing master
to the Queen, he was rebuffed, since she preferred  country dance to the
formal court dances.
    All this was news to me.  The earliest references I am aware of to
country dances perfomed at court are in Pepys' diary in the realm of Charles
II.  Can anyone provide earlier sources?

Albert Blank
fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:49:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:49:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.990926173234.26508A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Based on my research into Elizabeth I, the entire first sentence is
nonsense: country dances were not considered 'folk dances' in her day
(that is, for the peasants only); in fact, all the country dances in
the Playford editions were done by the middle and upper classes. One
theory is that 'country dance' meant a dance done in country houses.
As for Eliabeth, she enjoyed dancing, and when she was older enjoyed
making up country dances for her maids (perhaps ladies in waiting). She
would not, however, ever have danced with her servants but only
with her social peers. All we know of her training was that in her youth
'she had learned to dance high in the Italian manner.' We do not know who
taught her, but we do know that there were Italians at court as musicians
and fencing masters (dancing masters could also be music masters or
fencing masters).

As for early references, there's an old article in the journal of English
Folk Dance and Song that collects a good many 16th-c. references.  Sorry
time doesn't permit my finding the reference for you.

Julia Sutton

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Albert A. Blank wrote:

>     Recently, I heard a talk in which it was said that Elizabeth I
> participated in and enjoyed country dances in her youth when she was safely
> away from court and not considered as a possible heir to the thrown.  Also,
> it was said that when Leicester offered the services of his dancing master
> to the Queen, he was rebuffed, since she preferred  country dance to the
> formal court dances.
>     All this was news to me.  The earliest references I am aware of to
> country dances perfomed at court are in Pepys' diary in the realm of Charles
> II.  Can anyone provide earlier sources?
> 
> Albert Blank
> fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:49:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:49:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.990926173234.26508A-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Based on my research into Elizabeth I, the entire first sentence is
nonsense: country dances were not considered 'folk dances' in her day
(that is, for the peasants only); in fact, all the country dances in
the Playford editions were done by the middle and upper classes. One
theory is that 'country dance' meant a dance done in country houses.
As for Eliabeth, she enjoyed dancing, and when she was older enjoyed
making up country dances for her maids (perhaps ladies in waiting). She
would not, however, ever have danced with her servants but only
with her social peers. All we know of her training was that in her youth
'she had learned to dance high in the Italian manner.' We do not know who
taught her, but we do know that there were Italians at court as musicians
and fencing masters (dancing masters could also be music masters or
fencing masters).

As for early references, there's an old article in the journal of English
Folk Dance and Song that collects a good many 16th-c. references.  Sorry
time doesn't permit my finding the reference for you.

Julia Sutton

On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Albert A. Blank wrote:

>     Recently, I heard a talk in which it was said that Elizabeth I
> participated in and enjoyed country dances in her youth when she was safely
> away from court and not considered as a possible heir to the thrown.  Also,
> it was said that when Leicester offered the services of his dancing master
> to the Queen, he was rebuffed, since she preferred  country dance to the
> formal court dances.
>     All this was news to me.  The earliest references I am aware of to
> country dances perfomed at court are in Pepys' diary in the realm of Charles
> II.  Can anyone provide earlier sources?
> 
> Albert Blank
> fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:02:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:01:48 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F1109C.213E27F5-AT-
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I would have to disagree with Julia's conclusions about the nature of
the country dances known to Elizabeth I. Her reign 1558-1603 predates
Playford's 1651 publication, however the popularity of country dances
with her court led to their being fashionable with the upper classes and
ensured John Playford of a financially successful publication. The
country dances she is said to have enjoyed were distinct from the court
dances generally in favor at the time. She does seem to have enjoyed
these dances as a counter to the more formal court dances, and to have
used them a way to encourage a spirit of nationalism. These derive from
the indigenous dances of the English countryside, as opposed to the
court dances which had generally been imported from France or Italy. It
is true that much changed during the remainder of the 17th century once
the country dances became fashionable, standardized and disseminated by
publishers and dancing masters, but their origins do appear to be as
folk dances, not as ballroom dances. Certainly the "new country dances"
known to Elizabeth's court seem to be a combination of the traditional
country dance form and the progressive figure dances known through
Fabritio Caroso's "Il Ballarino" (1581). This was an enormously popular
and widely used dance manual. But I do think the origins of the country
dance in England need to be viewed as an important, distinct and
indigenous form of dance.

For information on early sources I would suggest:
Wood, Melusine. "Some Notes on the English Country Dance before
Playford" JEFDSS, Vol. 3 no. 2, 1937
Wood, Melusine. "Some Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of
Teachers of Dancing, 1952
Wood, Melusine. "More Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of
Teachers of Dancing, 1956
Millar, John Fitzhugh. "Elizabethan Country Dances" Williamsburg, VA:
Thirteen Colonies Press, 1985
Emmerson, George. "A Social History of Scottish Dance", McGill-Queen's
University Press, 1972 (mostly for its extensive bibliography of
original sources)

Marjorie McLaughlin

julia s sutton wrote:
> 
> Based on my research into Elizabeth I, the entire first sentence is
> nonsense: country dances were not considered 'folk dances' in her day
> (that is, for the peasants only); in fact, all the country dances in
> the Playford editions were done by the middle and upper classes. One
> theory is that 'country dance' meant a dance done in country houses.
> As for Eliabeth, she enjoyed dancing, and when she was older enjoyed
> making up country dances for her maids (perhaps ladies in waiting). She
> would not, however, ever have danced with her servants but only
> with her social peers. All we know of her training was that in her youth
> 'she had learned to dance high in the Italian manner.' We do not know who
> taught her, but we do know that there were Italians at court as musicians
> and fencing masters (dancing masters could also be music masters or
> fencing masters).
> 
> As for early references, there's an old article in the journal of English
> Folk Dance and Song that collects a good many 16th-c. references.  Sorry
> time doesn't permit my finding the reference for you.
> 
> Julia Sutton
> 
> On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Albert A. Blank wrote:
> 
> >     Recently, I heard a talk in which it was said that Elizabeth I
> > participated in and enjoyed country dances in her youth when she was safely
> > away from court and not considered as a possible heir to the thrown.  Also,
> > it was said that when Leicester offered the services of his dancing master
> > to the Queen, he was rebuffed, since she preferred  country dance to the
> > formal court dances.
> >     All this was news to me.  The earliest references I am aware of to
> > country dances perfomed at court are in Pepys' diary in the realm of Charles
> > II.  Can anyone provide earlier sources?
> >
> > Albert Blank
> > fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
> >
> >
> >
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:11:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:11:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JGI6JEJY3M935DAJ-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Marjorie McLaughlin writes:

  For information on early sources I would suggest:
  Wood, Melusine. "Some Notes on the English Country Dance before
  Playford" JEFDSS, Vol. 3 no. 2, 1937
  Wood, Melusine. "Some Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of
  Teachers of Dancing, 1952
  Wood, Melusine. "More Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of
  Teachers of Dancing, 1956
  Millar, John Fitzhugh. "Elizabethan Country Dances" Williamsburg, VA:
  Thirteen Colonies Press, 1985
  Emmerson, George. "A Social History of Scottish Dance", McGill-Queen's
  University Press, 1972 (mostly for its extensive bibliography of
  original sources)

I don't know for sure about George Emmerson, and, not pretending to be
a dance scholar or to have studied original sources myself, don't really
have an opinion of my own.  I will note only that there has been enough
contention from other scholars about the accuracy of historical 
interpretation by the other authors on your list that you shouldn't expect
statements based on their work to go altogether unchallenged.

(I'll also note that John and Cathy Millar are very pleasant people,
excellent hosts at their inn in Williamsburg, provide the splendid site
for a fun country dance series, and wrote a terrific dance ("Corelli's 
Maggot.")

(Incidentally, my current favorite dubious interpretation of country
dance is Sharp's (and Karpeles?  it's in CDB5) view of one figure in
Appalachian big circle dancing as a remnant of well worship, and another
figure (birdie in a cage) as a remnant of human sacrifice.)

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:28:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Sue Wartell <swartell-AT-
cas.org>
Subject: Dance databases
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199909290328.XAA17381-AT-
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Martin Kiff commented in response to my mention of Alan Patterson's 
DanceData program:

<snipped>

> My feeling is there we are getting to the stage the web can be the
> reference for dances rather than a database. The important bit is that
> dances are written up in a standard fashion (cf 'ABC' format for 
> writing down tunes) and enthusiasts to maintain an index.

<snipped>

The data in the DanceData database is in fact available on the Web.
http://mars.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de:8000/dd/  

It's quite nice, but the Web version lacks the features I most like 
about the database.

1.  I can't use it to track my "holdings".  The database allows me to 
note which recordings and dance directions are in my collections.  This 
allows me to pull together a program on short notice, based on the 
recordings/music and dance directions I happen to have and based on 
details about what kind of dance(s) I am looking for.)

2.  I can't make notations linked to the dances on the web.  (e.g., I 
learned this dance at ____, or there is a tricky bit just at the start 
of the second 8 bars, or I particularly like the recording by xxxx for 
this dance.)

3.  I have to be connected to the internet to use it.  This is a big 
negative.

Note that the database Alan has assembled contains information _about_ 
dances and music; it doesn't contain any dance directions or music.  Its 
function is to be an index.  It makes it easy to locate the directions 
for a dance, or its composer, or date of composition, or available 
recordings, etc.

Copyright considerations make putting the actual directions out on the 
Web problematic.  (And _no_, I don't want to start yet another round of 
the copyright discussion.  :-)   )


On a related note, there is also a program available out on the Web for 
recording dance directions.  Take a look at 
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/D_Taeger/dmaster.htm 
I haven't used it, so I don't know what its features might be.  It is 
designed for Scottish Country Dancing, but it might also be usable for 
ECD.  

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:55:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 01:55:50 -7000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199909290555.BAA26083-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
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I can't figure out a tactful way to word this, so please excuse me for 
being blunt.  On the one hand we have the opinion of Julia Sutton, 
probably the most respected authority on dancing in the Elizabethan 
period.  And, on the other hand we have Melusine Wood, a noted 
practitioner of the "wishful conjecture" method of dance research.   


Al, the talk you heard about Elizabeth dancing country dances was 
pure bunk.  To quote Kitty Keller from _The Playford Ball_, "she 
[Elizabeth] enjoyed watching the ladies of her court dancing 'country 
dances,' although she herself preferred the galliard, volta, and other 
more demanding couple dances."  


And, although I am not comfortable with many of the things John 
Millar has published, I must defend him on this particular point.  He 
too disagreed with the speaker's claim that "Elizabeth I participated in 
and enjoyed country dances in her youth."  In his _Elizabethan 
Country Dances_, John Millar wrote, "It is believed that Elizabeth was 
interested mainly in Court Dancing until 1591 when she visited Lord 
and Lady Montague at Cowdray House in Sussex and watched her 
hosts doing Country Dances with their tenants."


The following excerpt from a secondary source (sorry, I forgot to 
note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed early 17th century 
text: 


	"<color><param>0000,0000,8000</param>At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants 
for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented 
themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'


	'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad 
these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the 
ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"</color>


Finally, if it makes a difference to anyone, based on my limited 
research of materials from the Elizabethan period, I agree completely 
with what Julia wrote about dancing in that period.  While I didn't infer 
from Al's message that the speaker correlated country dancing with 
folk dancing, Julia is absolutely right.  Country dancing may have been 
danced at country houses, but it wasn't peasant dancing.  (Julia, if you 
find the reference to the article in the EFDS journal with "a good many 
16th-c. references," please pass in on.  Thanks.)  


=============================================

Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:


<color><param>0000,0000,FF00</param>> I would have to disagree with Julia's conclusions about the nature of

> the country dances known to Elizabeth I. Her reign 1558-1603 predates

> Playford's 1651 publication, however the popularity of country dances

> with her court led to their being fashionable with the upper classes and

> ensured John Playford of a financially successful publication. The

> country dances she is said to have enjoyed were distinct from the court

> dances generally in favor at the time. She does seem to have enjoyed

> these dances as a counter to the more formal court dances, and to have

> used them a way to encourage a spirit of nationalism. These derive from

> the indigenous dances of the English countryside, as opposed to the

> court dances which had generally been imported from France or Italy. It

> is true that much changed during the remainder of the 17th century once

> the country dances became fashionable, standardized and disseminated by

> publishers and dancing masters, but their origins do appear to be as

> folk dances, not as ballroom dances. Certainly the "new country dances"

> known to Elizabeth's court seem to be a combination of the traditional

> country dance form and the progressive figure dances known through

> Fabritio Caroso's "Il Ballarino" (1581). This was an enormously popular

> and widely used dance manual. But I do think the origins of the country

> dance in England need to be viewed as an important, distinct and

> indigenous form of dance.

> 

> For information on early sources I would suggest:

> Wood, Melusine. "Some Notes on the English Country Dance before

> Playford" JEFDSS, Vol. 3 no. 2, 1937

> Wood, Melusine. "Some Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of

> Teachers of Dancing, 1952

> Wood, Melusine. "More Historical Dances", London: Imperial Society of

> Teachers of Dancing, 1956

> Millar, John Fitzhugh. "Elizabethan Country Dances" Williamsburg, VA:

> Thirteen Colonies Press, 1985

> Emmerson, George. "A Social History of Scottish Dance", McGill-Queen's

> University Press, 1972 (mostly for its extensive bibliography of

> original sources)

> 

> Marjorie McLaughlin

> 

> julia s sutton wrote:

> > 

> > Based on my research into Elizabeth I, the entire first sentence is

> > nonsense: country dances were not considered 'folk dances' in her day

> > (that is, for the peasants only); in fact, all the country dances in

> > the Playford editions were done by the middle and upper classes. One

> > theory is that 'country dance' meant a dance done in country houses.

> > As for Eliabeth, she enjoyed dancing, and when she was older enjoyed

> > making up country dances for her maids (perhaps ladies in waiting). She

> > would not, however, ever have danced with her servants but only

> > with her social peers. All we know of her training was that in her youth

> > 'she had learned to dance high in the Italian manner.' We do not know who

> > taught her, but we do know that there were Italians at court as musicians

> > and fencing masters (dancing masters could also be music masters or

> > fencing masters).

> > 

> > As for early references, there's an old article in the journal of English

> > Folk Dance and Song that collects a good many 16th-c. references.  Sorry

> > time doesn't permit my finding the reference for you.

> > 

> > Julia Sutton

> > 

> > On Sun, 26 Sep 1999, Albert A. Blank wrote:

> > 

> > >     Recently, I heard a talk in which it was said that Elizabeth I

> > > participated in and enjoyed country dances in her youth when she was safely

> > > away from court and not considered as a possible heir to the thrown.  Also,

> > > it was said that when Leicester offered the services of his dancing master

> > > to the Queen, he was rebuffed, since she preferred  country dance to the

> > > formal court dances.

> > >     All this was news to me.  The earliest references I am aware of to

> > > country dances perfomed at court are in Pepys' diary in the realm of Charles

> > > II.  Can anyone provide earlier sources?

> > >

> > > Albert Blank

> > > fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com

> > >


<nofill>
====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:01:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:31:30 -0230 (NDT)
From: Margaret Connors <mconnors-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990929080959.21058B-100000-AT-
plato.ucs.mun.ca>
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Greetings to All!

	Two more interesting books to look at are: 

Music at the Inns of Court during the Reigns of Elizabeth, James and
Charles by Robert W. Weinpahl   ISBN 0835704173

The Inns of Court under Elizabeth I and the Early Stuarts 1590-1640 by
Wilfred R. Prest   ISBN 0874710782


These books are not specifically concerned with dance, and the authors are
not dance historians.  But the books contain much interesting information
concerning the Revels and various ceremonies that were a major part of the
life of The Inns of Court. 

Margaret Connors,
St. John's, Newfoundland
Canada




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:15:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:15:08 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37F1F4BC.200FF-AT-
home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <199909290555.BAA26083-AT-
ns.kreative.net>

I appreciate Rich Galloway's successful effort at tact - and I do
apologize for my lack of tact in "disagreeing" with Julia Sutton. What I
really intended was to offer Albert Blank some information contradicting
the notion that "no country dances had been performed at court earlier
than in the realm of Charles II", and I got a bit carried away by some
of my long-presumed notions about the origins of "country dances".

The sources quoted (below)in Rich's response I found in John Nichols,
"The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth", volumes I
and III, London, 1823.

Rich Galloway wrote: > "The following excerpt from a secondary source
(sorry, I forgot to note the title of the book) quotes an unattributed
early 17th century text:
> 
> "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
> 
> 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"

Can it be inferred that these "pleasant dances" danced by "tenants", as
well as the occasion at Warwick Castle in 1572 where "it pleased her to
have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry", were popular, common
dances (I'm trying to avoid using the loaded word "country") which other
sources tell us were enjoyed at court as a contrast to the "grave
measures"?

I realize this is a complex subject and that I quoted sources which are
not the best, but I do still wonder about the indigenous nature of these
country dances, affected though they were by influences such as the
Italian dancing masters.

Marjorie McLaughlin
San Diego, CA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:02:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:02:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990929124528.4712A-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
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  The dances done by the country people in Elizabeth's presence need not
have been "country dances" as we know them.  They could have been the
simple circle and line dances that coexisted with other forms of dance
throughout the fifteenth century.
  Where country dances are referred to in Elizabethan sources, we don't
even know how much the term covered and whether the definition changed
over time.  An English-Italian dictionary of 1602 defines the Italian verb
"chiaranzare" as "to dance to ballads, as a country dance" implying that
the definitive feature of country dances was the music.  Thomas Morley in
his "Plaine and Easie Instruction in Practical Musick" mentions country
dances in his list of types of music and refers to them as "our English
country dances", so he must have seen something indiginous about them, but
whether it was the music or the figures he doesn't say.

--Mary Railing 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:56:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:55:23 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD release party for Bare Necessities
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v02130527b4180ed7dfd7-AT-
[155.33.181.184]>
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Those list members within driving distance of Boston might enjoy a CD
release party we are having for Bare Necessities on Wednesday, Oct 6 at the
Park Avenue Congregational Church in Arlington.

We'll be celebrating vol 1 and the soon-to-be-released vol 2 of "Favorites
of the Boston Centre". The dance will also be a celebration of the Band's
longstanding relationship with the Wednesday series. For this evening, the
Band will be picking out the dances, including some of the tunes from the
two CDs as well as favorities of the Band.  Our feeling is that since
theyve been playing for us for near 20 years, next Wedneday we'll be happy
to dance for them.

If you have any photos of members of the band, please bring them along;
we'll have display boards so that everyone can enjoy.

Best,
 Terry Gaffney


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:31:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:19:55 -0400
From: sheilab-AT-
tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RenDance Evening w/Renaissonics  Fr 10/1
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01530507b41840adbc81-AT-
[206.119.47.10]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If you live within driving distance of Cambridge, Mass.,
you might enjoy an evening of early Playford *and earlier*
dance with [mostly 18th-century specialist] Ken Pierce.



RENAISSONICS hosts its monthly Renaissance Dance for Everyone
Evening on Friday, October 1 at 7:30 PM at Jewett Hall, First
Church Congregational, 11 Garden Street in Harvard Square,
Cambridge (Massachusetts).

All dances will be taught by guest Ken Pierce with lively music
provided by John Tyson, recorder & pipe-&-tabor and members
of RENAISSONICS.

Admission is $8.  Refreshments are served.
Please bring soft-soled shoes.
For further information, please call 617/661-3353.

Upcoming Dance Evenings are  Nov. 12 and Dec. 3.


posted for Renaissonics by
Sheila Bosworth
sheilab-AT-
tiac.net


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:09:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:08:04 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7f31a9b.012-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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ECD folk:
  i got an interesting email from a fella named playford who is doing
genealogy and now is interested in knowing about--dance. what a
surprise! he found us on the web. he lives in seattle and i'm trying
to find a link for him. haven't succeeded yet ("can't find server",
"page doesn't exist", etc.). cdss group directory doesn't even seem to
have anything in seattle. anyone want to volunteer to email this guy?
he wants info, CDs, etc. i will direct him to the cdss home page, but
wouldn't it be nice to offer him something closer to home? 
  thanks, sharon "nice town, seattle, but where's the ECD?" mckinley,
and not an official playford publisher for any government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:22:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:26:48 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD in seattle?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990930132648.00867d20-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 08:08 AM 9/30/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>ECD folk:
>  i got an interesting email from a fella named playford who is doing
>genealogy and now is interested in knowing about--dance. what a
>surprise! he found us on the web. he lives in seattle and i'm trying
>to find a link for him. haven't succeeded yet ("can't find server",
>"page doesn't exist", etc.). cdss group directory doesn't even seem to
>have anything in seattle. 

Yes it does.  CDSS directory lists  Nonesuch, which is an English Dance
performing group, with me listed as director and contact person.  It also
has Wannadance, which is the umbrella organization for all the contra
dances in town.  Your friend should look again.  There's a lot of dance and
music in Seattle, and much of it listed in CDSS.  The FRiday night dances
aren't, but they are by different people, callers, bands, and don't have a
parent organization to list.  

anyone want to volunteer to email this guy?  >>he wants info, CDs, etc. i
will direct him to the cdss home page, but wouldn't it be nice to offer him s
omething closer to home? 
>  thanks, sharon "nice town, seattle, but where's the ECD?" mckinley,
>and not an official playford publisher for any government agency

OK I"ll bite.  

Welcome to Seattle's English Country Dance community, whoever you are!

ECD takes place the first third and fifth Fridays at the University Friends
Center. Workshop for beginners at 7:30, dance begins at  8:00.  All dances
are fragrance free so please don't wear any scented products. 

Seattle English Country Ball Jan 22, 2000.  Registration-- Paul Bestock,
bestcokp-AT-
oz.net

Cascadia Occasional English Dance, last weekend in April.  Scott Higgs
calling, various bands.  Workshops Sat all day and Sun. AM, dances Sat
evening and Sun. afternoon. 

Workshops for newcomers preceding each dance and on Wed. nights in the fall.

There is also a dance group associated with Society for Creative
Anachronism, which does mostly earlier stuff, but a little Playford as well.

Cascadia OED and the English Country Ball each have their own websites,
which haven't been updated for this year yet.  General dance info for
Seattle, including English Dances at Matt Fisher's website 

http://www.seattledance.org/english/

More info on Seattle English dances from Julie King <jking-AT-
oz.net>

But if your friend is interested in scholarly research about dance, and not
in actually dancing, they'd be better off joining the ECD list, and talking
to people like Julia Sutton and Rich Galloway. 

And if they want CD's, we here in Seattle still get them from CDSS, which
has the biggest collection. 

Vicky Bestock

 

 
 





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:39:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:44:17 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Elizabeth I and country dance
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bf0b8c$f207fd00$a1e7adce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Speaking just as an interested spectator, I must admit that passages quoted
by both Marjorie and Rich make it sound as if the whole
origins-of-country-dances question doesn't have the kind of categorical
answer where you can simply say "no, the yokels had nothing to do with it."
Did Elizabeth in fact pick it up in Sussex and carry it back to court?  And
if she picked it up in Sussex, is the implication that it was invented by
the rural gentry with no inspiration from the yokels?  This last point seems
a little odd to me.

Going off on a tangent, could someone clarify the relationship between
circle dances and country dancing?  I always just accepted circle dances as
a form of ECD, since it shows up in Playford, but from various comments on
this list it sounds as a distinction is made between them.  (?)

Thanks --

Marian Phillips
San Francisco

> "At Cowdrey, Lord and Lady Montagu dance with their tenants for Queen
Elizabeth and 'in the evening the countrie people presented themselves to
her Majestie in a pleasaunt dance with taber and pipe.'
>
> 'Her Majestie is in very good health and comes much abroad these
holidayes; for almost every night she is in the presence to see the ladies
daunce the new Country dances, with the taber and pipe.'"

"it pleased her to
have the country people, resorting to see her, daunce in the court of
the Castell, her Majestie beholding them out of her chamber window;
which thing, as it plesid well the country people, so it seemed her
Majestie was much delighted, and made very myrry

"It is believed that Elizabeth was interested mainly in Court Dancing until
1591 when she visited Lord and Lady Montague at Cowdray House in Sussex and
watched her hosts doing Country Dances with their tenants."




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:58:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:59:11 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dancing in Madison Wisconsin with Helene Cornelius calling
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990930185237.009835a0-AT-
popmail.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This Monday, October 4, 1999, 7:30 p.m. until 10:30 p.m. at Wilmar Center,
953 Jenifer St., Madison, WI 

English Country Dacing calling by Helene Cornelius music by
Mike Briggs of McDuffs (Scottish and Contra)
and 
Karen Cornelius of Far From Home (Celtic)

more information http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm#cornelius

The Madison (Wisconsin) English Country Dance Society meets for dancing
October through May at the Wilmar Center and June through September in
front of Memorial Library on the first and third Mondays of the month from
7:30-9:30 PM. For more information, contact Frances (fhough-AT-
mailbag.com),
Jean (608-231-1040) or Don (608-238-9951) or
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/mecds/home.htm



Mike Mudrey
P.O. Box 22
New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022

mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net