Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:13:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:12:45 -0500 (EST)
From: GAFF-AT-
neu.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JE91O3VJOI8ZLHUA-AT-
neu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

You're welcome Mary Beth! But now since you brought it up,you have to tell
us what you like about it.

o get the ball rolling,one of the things I liked about the CD was the strong
use of rhythm in the last few rounds of the "Female Saylor" and "Round
About Our Coalfire". It really pumps energy into these tunes. Anybody else?

best,
 terry
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:29:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 09:26:34 -0600
From: William DeRagon <wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Music from Feuillet & Essex in ABC notation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990801.092636.-991087.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In 1700, Raoul-Auger Feuillet published, in Paris, a dance notation
system using diagrams and symbols, rather than words, to describe
movements and figures.  His "Recueil de Contredances" (1706) includes a
simpler explanation of the system along with instructions for 32 country
dances in the style then prevalent in England.  The explanatory material
in that volume was translated into English by John Essex in "For the
Further Improvement of Dancing..." (London, 1710).  Essex included 3
dances from Feuillet and an additional 7 country dances.  (In 1964 or
1965, Pat Shaw issued a pamphlet entitled "Six Simple Country Dances..."
which included interpretations of dances from Essex's manual.)

The music in Feuillet's manual is scored in the French violin clef (G
clef centered on the bottom line of the staff).  To avoid dealing with
that, and as an aid to interpreting the dance notation system, I have
scored in ABC all the music in Feuillet's 1706 and Essex's 1710 manuals. 
Many of the dances have been past topics of the ECD Mailing List; e.g.,
Les Manches Vertes (Greensleeves and Yellow Lace), Jumping Joan (Jeanne
Qui Saute), La Matelotte (The Female Saylor), and The Trip to the
Jubilee.

If interested, please request the ABC file through a private response to
me at wderagon-AT-
juno.com.  (The music is in the public domain.)

William DeRagon
Albuquerque, NM
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:28:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:26:20 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205500b3ca418f64a1-AT-
[206.72.193.206]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JE91O3VJOI8ZLHUA-AT-
neu.edu>

> But now since you brought it up,you have to tell
>us what you like about it.

Well to be honest, it brought back strong memories of my first time 
to pinewoods camp, when we danced in the scout building and the music 
made me want to cry because it was so beautiful.

How about that?

Mary Beth

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 12:40:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 15:39:28 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre!
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199908011539_MC2-7F5A-10C9-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Message text written by Terry Gaffney
>> But now since you brought it up,you have to tell
>us what you like about it.<

Let me second Terry's request and ask all you aficionados to put your likes
and dislikes in e-writing.  Boston Centre and Bare Necessities asked me to
produce these CD's, and I'd appreciate your suggestions, reactions, and
criticisms.

What does a producer do, exactly?   For this on-going project, I've been
selecting and ordering the tunes, determining tempos and length,
researching and writing the liner notes, overseeing the business end of the
creative process (royalties, manufacturing, etc.), and organizing things in
the recording studio.  In this last capacity, I act as a sounding board for
the BN's many creative ideas, suggest new ones, help determine when a track
is "done," and generally keep things moving along.

Your input to me in any of these areas would be helpful, as you all are the
primary audience.  We've got a 2nd "Favorites" CD already recorded to be
released in October, and 2 more CD's in the planning stages (look for
releases in early 2000).  Unless your comments would be of general interest
to the ECD community, let's not clutter up Alan's ECD forum; send e-mail
directly to me and/or Terry or Dan (Pearl).

Thanks very much,

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Musician, Caller, and facilitator of collaborative efforts to
further our beloved cause

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:31:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:30:45 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Band Compensation report
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0213056db3cbba567a77-AT-
[155.33.181.197]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Thanks to everyone who sent me data on band compensation! Instead of
providing averages, I thought it made more sense just to give you the raw
numbers.

0
5
0-25
11-18
20
22.9
25
25
25
45
60
65
A number of smaller dances divide the gate among the musicians after paying
rent and other expenses.
The most important difference in compensation occurs when an organization
gets large enough to loosen the connection between gate and musicians'
compensation. Contra dance players seem to get more money everywhere.


best,
 terry



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:23:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:23:31 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a62873.4d3b.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>
>Tom Roby wrote:
>
>Which reminds me of another Swarthmore Parents' Day performance where we
>did "Waters of Holland" (This was not long after the first Bare
>Necessities album came out.)  Although this is a mixer, we expected to
>get our original partners back at the end of three times.  I was
>surprised to find myself bowing to "Henry" at the end, while "Margaret"
>and "Alison" gracefully curtsied to each other.  I hope I wiped the
>astonishment off my face in time, and we exited as if nothing had
>happened.  But it was the kind of mistake that even the untrained
>observer would have easily caught.  
>
>Any other stories about performances gone awry?  
>

   At a Nordlys performance that I was not at, Darren Knittle fell off the back
of a very shallow stage. 
   I remember at a festival that Reel Nutmeg was some years ago in Middletown,
CT, the next to last act was a very professional belly-dance group. One of the
women was doing a dance with swords and during one broad sweep over her head,
she shattered the flourescent light above her. The next dancer was the groups
director with a rather sizable snake. The last act, the Mt. Laurel Cloggers,
was an anti-climax after that group.
   I did a one time performance with a group once in Longmeadow, MA. The stage
was made from several 4x8 sheets of plywood with a 2x4 frame on legs about 18"
high. The legs were supposed to be bolted on, but after one section collapsed
under me (in the middle of Newcastle), it was discovered that most of the nuts
were missing. The rest of the performance was delayed for some time while someone
went and bought nuts from the hardware store.
   The worst thing that has ever happened to me was at a Reel Nutmeg "dress
rehearsal" performance a couple days before NEFFA one year. The Suite started
with twice through each of three different versions of Petronella: Scottish,
Early American and modern Contra. Dale and I were first couple in the Scottish
version and as we turned to dance back up the middle, I came down hard on the
corner of a Grand piano that was hidden behind the back curtain. I don't know
if the audience was ever aware of it, but it was hard getting through the entire
suite with the pain I shooting through my hip.

Andy in Portland, Oregon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:43:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:42:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JEAR8IV6269JJCY7-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


My worst performance nightmare:

As part of a tour with the second Berkeley morris ale, the Deer Creek Morris
Men were dancing at the Exploratorium in San Francisco, indoors, in front of
several hundred parents and children.  (Most of them had no idea what we were
doing, and the noise level was high enough that they might not have been able
to hear the music.)

At the time, Deer Creek wore extremely baggy knee-length breeches.  We were in
a set ready to start Bampton Trunckles; went through the once-to-yourself, and
as we started moving on the foot up, the elastic in my boxer shorts picked that
exact moment to fail, and the boxers fell all the   way to the knee.  It is not
easy to morris dance with your knees tied  together.  If it had been Sherbourne
instead of Bampton, it would have been impossible.

More visible, though somewhat less disconcerting, was the sash that, despite
being safety-pinned on in four places, unwound itself from my middle and hit 
the floor during a longsword dance. Both hands were, of course, occupied
holding swords, so I could only watch the inevitable progression of of sash
to floor, and kick it out of the way once it was gone. This was at a tech
rehearsal rather than in front of an audience, which is why it's only my 
second-worst performance nightmare.

-- Alan 


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 06:36:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:36:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908031336.JAA13223-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Great stories.  They would go well during our "Gigs from Hell" story swap
at NEFFA.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:50:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:48:23 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: hartford events?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7a6d756.046-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

ECD folk:
  this never works, as the guilt trip laid upon me by my folks is
usually too strong to disobey, but is there anything going on in
hartford and environs on fri-sat, aug. 13-14? ECD or contras would be
nice, if they're close (like close to farmington). reply off-list,
please. 
 thanks, sharon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:57:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:39:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990803153901.21487.rocketmail-AT-
web1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


---adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    I remember at a festival that Reel Nutmeg was some years ago in
Middletown,
> CT, the next to last act was a very professional belly-dance
group. One of the
> women was doing a dance with swords and during one broad sweep
over her head,
> she shattered the flourescent light above her. The next dancer was
the groups
> director with a rather sizable snake. 

That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of music
and dance in Connectict.  THIS Fall it will be taking place on the
weekend of of November 5-7.  I don't know if there will be any
snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have
got English!  The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10
hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary
Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances,
Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha
Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge
Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your
confirmations by mail yet!)   Given the wonderful but unexpected
English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions
will be held in the main gym!

More information will be posted as available.  Meanwhile, mark your
calendars and watch this space!

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:04:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990803155644.5920.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> >Tom Roby wrote:
  
> >
> >Any other stories about performances gone awry?  


Does it count if it's not English and not even visible.  I was doing
my monthly rotation as a Folk DJ on the local college radio station
just this Sunday afternoon, and a friend called in to tell me that
the part he and his son enjoyed the most was during the news stories
when I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes
_before_ taking off.

I wonder how many other people caught that.

Barbara
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:14:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 12:24:37 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990803121923.00b34610-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 08:39 AM 8/3/99 -0700, Barbara Ruth wrote:

> I don't know if there will be any
>snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have
>got English!  The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10
>hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary
>Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances,
>Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha
>Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge
>Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your
>confirmations by mail yet!)   Given the wonderful but unexpected
>English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions
>will be held in the main gym!

NOMAD is the most ECD-friendly festival I know--on Sundays the rare
unscheduled room has been known to become the site of an impromptu
"guerilla" ECD for Those Who Can't Get Enough.  Great fun!

Sharon Green (student of guerilla tactics)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:12:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990803211310.9313.rocketmail-AT-
web108.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


> That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of
> music and dance in Connecticut.  THIS Fall it will be taking place
> on the weekend of of November 5-7.  I don't know if there will be 
> any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we
> have got English!

The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend
is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at
our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a
workshop/party on Saturday.

Lyrl Ahern

_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:03:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:03:35 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a79167.2b50.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of music
>and dance in Connectict.  THIS Fall it will be taking place on the
>weekend of of November 5-7.  I don't know if there will be any
>snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have
>got English!  The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10
>hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary
>Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances,
>Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha
>Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge
>Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your
>confirmations by mail yet!)   Given the wonderful but unexpected
>English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions
>will be held in the main gym!
>
>More information will be posted as available.  Meanwhile, mark your
>calendars and watch this space!
>
Great plug for NOMAD, which I would love to go to sometime, but the festival
I was at was a year or two before NOMAD was started and was in a city park in
Middletown. It was just performances and was part of some city function as I
recall. After the belly dancers finished and the cloggers came on I discoverd
that the film in my camera wasn't advancing so I rememberit well.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:08:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:08:15 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>> >Barbara Ruth wrote:
>
>Does it count if it's not English and not even visible.  I was doing
>my monthly rotation as a Folk DJ on the local college radio station
>just this Sunday afternoon, and a friend called in to tell me that
>the part he and his son enjoyed the most was during the news stories
>when I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes
>_before_ taking off.
>
>I wonder how many other people caught that.
>
I'll bail you out. It could have gone off the runway and crashed before taking
off. 

Andy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:37:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net>

I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I figure someone here will probably know about:

Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new figures from time to time?  Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them into new dances?  Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous editions?

And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures?  If so, what are some examples?

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:20:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:18:13 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37A7E934.6B5542B4-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net> <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>

This may become quite a thread ... Marian!

Heyer wrote:

> I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I figure someone here will probably know about:
>
> Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new figures from time to time?  Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them into new dances?  Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous editions?
>

There certainly is! After all, in such a long period (c.1650-c.1820) things did not remain unchanged. And that's also true for steps, formation, music, ... For example compare Hearts Ease (Playford, 1651), Lille (Walsh, 1710) and Juliana (Wilson, 1814). Execution of figures changed, too: "rights and lefts" is an example of that.

> And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures?  If so, what are some examples?

Oh yes, although we, late 20th century ECD dancers, leaders, and choreographers, shouldn't think we invented it all. "Face en face" is probably a "new figure". Fried de Metz has used that movement a lot in her dances (although it also pops up in a Cor Hogendijk dance, published 1973).
A figure sometimes becomes new when it is felt that it should be defined and named.

Philippe Callens
Antwerp, Belgium


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 05:48:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:47:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908040841300.24920-100000-AT-
joust.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

There certainly are instructions in some of the Playford editions that
were invented along the way -- things like "First man takes out his
snuffbox, takes a pinch, offers some to his Lady, who takes some..."  and
"First man points at the second woman's eyes, raises his hands in dispair,
and turns her..."  (not the exact wording; this is from memory, but I'm
not making it up -- look through the several editions of the Dancing
Master at the Library of Congress' American Memories web site!) 

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:08:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:10:33 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b02b3ce0842991b-AT-
[155.99.169.236]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

How do you do "face en face"?

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:05:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:04:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: RiverStSch-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: hartford events?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <13815f8c.24d9daa2-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sharon... Call Jim Gregory in West Hartford, he usually lists on his 
answering machine the weekend Contra dances in Hartford. No English .... 
Helen 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:18:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:22:24 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Making stuff up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990804112224.007b8740-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Many choreographers create new figures some of which are creative
recombinations of familiar bits.  For example, Fried's "chevron" is made up
of advance, retire, and side step in a new and unusual pattern.  Once the
original sequence is used in another dance, its probably constitutes a new
figure, whether it gets a new name or not. Fried likes to name hers, and
she's invented quite a few.  Antony Heywood has used the very original
figure from the B1 of his Enrichez-Vous in another dance, so it probably
constitutes a new figure, but he hasn't named it, leaving us the problem of
explaining it each time to people who haven't seen it before. 

I don't recall seeing "cloverleaf" turn singles anywhere in Playford.
Maybe they did them that way in Playford's time, but I suspect that its a
recent invention. Is the term post-Sharp, even if the figure isn't?   

One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file
called "goose walk" by Fried.  Yes, I know geese follow each other in
single file lines, so its appropriate.  I still cringe every time I hear
it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative
associations with Nazis.  I'm not the only one-- there was a stunned
silence at Mendocino this summer when Philippe used the term, and an
audible sigh of relief when he explained what he meant.  I hope someone
comes up with a different name for it. 

Victoria Bestock   

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:21:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:23:29 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: goose walk
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b04b3ce7a7f749d-AT-
[155.99.169.236]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file
>called "goose walk" by Fried.  Yes, I know geese follow each other in
>single file lines, so its appropriate.  I still cringe every time I hear
>it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative
>associations with Nazis.

I've heard it called "single file, Indian style" by a square-dance caller -
but maybe that won't please people either.  What's wrong with just "single
file"?  I am not offended by "goose walk" but don't find it particularly
descriptive.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:32:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:34:01 -0700
From: Stephanie Smith <steph-AT-
Boo.Net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: goose walk
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37A8F819.EF51A07E-AT-
boo.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <v01540b04b3ce7a7f749d-AT-
[155.99.169.236]>

In her recent compositions, Fried generally calls this a "meander."  I
don't think I've ever heard her use the term "goose walk."

Stephanie Smith

Emma Rushton wrote:
> 
> >One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file
> >called "goose walk" by Fried.  Yes, I know geese follow each other in
> >single file lines, so its appropriate.  I still cringe every time I hear
> >it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative
> >associations with Nazis.
> 
> I've heard it called "single file, Indian style" by a square-dance caller -
> but maybe that won't please people either.  What's wrong with just "single
> file"?  I am not offended by "goose walk" but don't find it particularly
> descriptive.
> 
> Emma
> 
> -
> Emma Rushton,
> Department of Biology,
> University of Utah,
> 257 South, 1400 East
> Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840
> 
> (801) 585-1926 (office)
> (801) 585-9425 (lab)
> (801) 581-4668 (fax)
> 
> rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:36:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:35:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: SFORDNYC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making stuff up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <c8a825a2.24da3666-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In a message dated 8/4/99 5:20:41 PM EST, bestockp-AT-
oz.net writes:

<< I hope someone comes up with a different name for it.  >>

How about "duckling walk"?  Unless it brings up unpleasant Hans Christian 
Andersen associations for anyone -- not that it should, but you never know.

"Single file" (c.f. Emma Rushton) -- without "Indian style" (in the interest 
of pc-ness) -- seems like a good solution -- if a prosaic one.  And perhaps 
it would deter those wags who might be inclined to "walk like a...."

Suzanne Ford
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:07:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: What a waste it is (Was: Performances gone awry )
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990805010022.955.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


---adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
>
> >> >Barbara Ruth wrote:
> I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes
> >_before_ taking off.
> >
> I'll bail you out. It could have gone off the runway and crashed
before taking
> off. 

Thanks, but I think in that case the copy would have read something
like "crashed at the end of the runway" or "just after leaving the
runway".  No, like our former vice president Dan Quayle, I stand by
my misstatements.
Barbara "Not Born in this Century" Ruth
(Soon to be true!)

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:34:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 21:34:53 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bedee2$b745e960$f098ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Eric --

Hilarious.  Wonderful.

If this were April 1.......

Pat Ruggiero
somewhere near Charlottesville, Va.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Eric Arnold
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 8:48 AM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up


There certainly are instructions in some of the Playford editions that
were invented along the way -- things like "First man takes out his
snuffbox, takes a pinch, offers some to his Lady, who takes some..."  and
"First man points at the second woman's eyes, raises his hands in despair,
and turns her..."  (not the exact wording; this is from memory, but I'm
not making it up -- look through the several editions of the Dancing
Master at the Library of Congress' American Memories web site!) 

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:28:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:28:10 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Making stuff up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a920ea.4e8e.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>Victoria Bestock  wrote:
>
>I don't recall seeing "cloverleaf" turn singles anywhere in Playford.
>Maybe they did them that way in Playford's time, but I suspect that its a
>recent invention. Is the term post-Sharp, even if the figure isn't?   
>

When Lyrl and I were learning ECD in the late 60's-early 70's, everything was
turn single right unless specifically stated otherwise in the instructions.
But then who knows what is right for sure?

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:32:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:36:17 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990804233617.007a7680-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Its been fun reminiscing about all those years of performances, and of
course, the more years, the more disaster stories.  So here are a few of
many, mostly from my days in Balkan and International dance companies:

1) The elastic of my tights quit and dropped a bit with every step.  I
ended the dance with the waistband below my knees, and the dress hem just
two inches below that. 

2) The tape broke mid show.  The technician couldn't get it spliced, or
threaded through, so we finished the show with no music. We hummed.  The
audience couldn't hear us, but it kept us dancers together.  

3) A school hired us to do an hour show.  We didn't find out until we got
there that the "stage" was the gym floor, and it was rubberized.  There is
no way to chug, pivot, clog or slide on this surface, because the foot
sticks to the floor the second it touches. It is totally silent, defeating
the purpose of 3/4 of the dances in the show.  The Croatian and
Appalacchian suites were particularly awful.     

4) I fell off the front of the stage when the line (in belt hold) pivoted.
The stage was too short front-to-back to contain the whole line, and I was
the end of the line.  My neighbor saw what was about to happen, let go of
HIS neighbor and grabbed my belt with both hands and hauled, just as I was
propelled off over the orchestra pit.  Then I flew off into empty air,
sailed over the abyss of the orchestra pit, arcing toward the other side of
the stage, and managed to get my toe onto the other side, 15 feet and two
measures later.  The audience thought it was neat. I didn't.      

5)
While spinning my hairpiece thwacked my partner in the face and flew off,
sliding one long red braid with ribbon across the stage floor, exploding
hairpins along the way that everyone then skidded on until the end of the
suite. 

6)  Arrived at the theater to find that my costume for the last dance was
cut out, but not sewn together.  Every time anyone had a minute backstage
between dances, they sewed a little more of it together. At intermission
the bodice, skirt and sleeves were still in separate places.  It looked
mostly like a dress by the time I had to put it on, but there was no zipper
in it yet, so the whole back was rapidly basted together on me, and I was
shoved onstage before the stitches could be knotted.  It unbasted during
the finale, but we were all facing front by that point, and no one could
see anything except that it flapped a bit from being too loose.   

7- In one of my students' performances a father came in late, entering on
stage!  He walked across the stage threading his way among the dancers, and
stood leaning against the wall where he accidentally shut off the lights.
They were hallogen lights, which take about ten minutes to warm up once
turned off, so the kids danced in the dark until the lights came on ten
minutes later. 

8) THere was a performance at NEFFA in a gym, where the gym floor was
protected by a huge piece of linoleum.  The dance had slipping circles one
way and then the other, and our circle was so exactly together when we
changed direction that when we shoved off into the new direction it set the
linoleum spinning under us.  Ever try to land on a rapidly rotating
surface?  Interesting sensation.    

9-43) I have sprained a foot onstage and had to dance for 22 minutes on it,
and once I got punched in the face by a dancer who turned around too early,
just as I was trying to go through the arch he ws supposed to be making.
I've been in performances where people broke bones, where the wrong music
came on, where the dancer leading one line lost track of where front and
back of the stage were, and did the whole second half of the dance on the
wrong side of the stage facing the rear wall! There was the show where the
curtain didn't come up more than two feet, and all the audience could see
was from the knees down. 

I think a certain amount of this is normal, and every performing group has
stories that are similar.  The trick is to convince the audience that the
disaster,or mistake, or  whatever it is, was just what was supposed to
happen.  You want them to comment "That must have taken a lot of practice
to have that lady fly across the orchestra pit like that." and "That was
creative, raising the curtain just a few feet-- it really helped me focus
on the Appalaccian footwork with no distractions." and "Boy, what
interesting asymmetrical choreography -- I loved that part where the line
was facing the back of the stage." 

44)  So one final true story.  I had been to Bulgaria and brought back
steps for a Women's Thracian dance never done in this country.  I cast the
director of the company in it, but she never came to the rehearsals because
she was busy rehearsing the men, so she never learned the sequence.  She
made zillions of mistakes in performance, and danced with such energy and
power that she pulled everyone else off balance. 

Afterwards I asked a friend how they liked my piece.  "Oh, great!" said my
friend, "But only that tall girl knew what she was doing." 

Victoria Bestock 
 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 00:10:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 00:08:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990805000453.19523K-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Not quite in the same category, but one night I was running sound for a 
concert, and toward the end of the first set a breaker blew with a bang, the 
left spotlight went out and the emergency light came on. The other 
engineer tried to reset the breaker, but it blew again. We decided to 
wait until intermission (I figured a dimmer had fried); after I'd checked 
the dimmer and found nothing wrong, a patron (on line for the loo) told 
me the little boy in the front row by the wall had gotten bored, and had 
been sticking paper clips in the electric socket. He was unscathed, but 
it took a while for us to get the socket cleaned out. It's taped up now.

Thing is, I knew the kid; his older brother is one of my guitar students. 
Both of them spend a lot of time in the emergency room.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:40:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:39:29 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: perfomance fiascos
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7a93fc7.040-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

i vowed i wasn't gonna add to this interesting vein, because my
favorite story isn't about me (darn!), but i love it, so here. y'all
can delete now if you want:
  a wonderful portuguese dance group was performing at a folk festival
in hartford, around 1974-75 (yes, i really DID live there). they had 2
little kids, a boy and a girl, who would stand in front of the group
and do a basic step while the rest of them twirled around doing the
real thing (and were they GOOD!). in the middle of one number, i saw
the boy's face looking panicked. he glanced at the girl, who stared
back.  the kid REALLY needed to go to the bathroom, but he didn't dare
leave the stage during the dance. a moment later, a puddle appeared at
his feet, which he proceeded to dance in until the number was over, at
which point he FLEW off the stage into a parent's arms. poor thing.
imagine being rooted to the spot. what a pro! hope he wasn't
completely traumatized, and is still dancing somewhere!
  sharon "and THAT'S why i always visit the john immediately before a
performance" mckinley, and not a purveyor of porta-pots for any
government agency
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 05:03:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:03:14 -0400
From: "Smith, Kent" <kent.smith-AT-
exchange.trincoll.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: goose walk
To: "'ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <4BA51268AF86D1119DC30000F81FB0D3016C59E1-AT-
exchange.cc.trincoll.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Scottish country dance devisers and teachers seem to be settling on "in a
chase," as in "all 4 dancers circle clockwise in a chase," to distinguish it
from taking hands in a circle.

	Kent Smith, Connecticut
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:35:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:52:11 +0100
From: mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com (Mary Devlin)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b00b3ced4110f41-AT-
[216.26.11.147]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

From my Appalachian clogging days:

The time we were dancing on TV and the floor was cement.  It was very slick
and had taps on -- was like dancing on ice -- and from time to time one of
us would disappear as we hit the ground...

In the "determined dancing" category --

Performing at the zoo during a concert intermission, the bluegrass band
accompanying us didn't quite get the idea of _4_ potatoes...  We started
after four, they played 8,  and we smiled a lot.

And of course the inevitable stage problems -- the plywood stage that broke
through in several places during performance.  Thwacky thwack Thwacky th...


The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather
catwalk-like.  It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step.  Like
clogging on a trampoline.

Mary






================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:02:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:04:06 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b05b3cf56301b14-AT-
[155.99.169.236]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>And of course the inevitable stage problems -- the plywood stage that broke
>through in several places during performance.  Thwacky thwack Thwacky th...
>
>
>The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather
>catwalk-like.  It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step.  Like
>clogging on a trampoline.

or the "portable floor" placed directly onto muddy grass straight after a
night of rain.  Squelch squelch, turning into muddy little fountains coming
up through the cracks.  All our nice scottish white dresses got very
bedraggled.

There was another time when we were dancing on wet grass immediately after
a jousting-display had finished.  Mud skating rink.  It's not supposed to
rain much in Utah, I suppose we've been unlucky.

At the same performance, I was put in charge of sound (being too pregnant
to dance much).  Nobody told me that the tape player was equipped with a
variable speed control.  It was quite something to see those gallant
dancers doing Montgomery's Rant at double speed.

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:38:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:37:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: FW: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990805163755.15473.rocketmail-AT-
web110.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Peterson
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 2:20 AM
> To: Patricia Ruggiero
> Subject: Re: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >I always start on the outside foot and I have always been able to
> > achieve the snappy pivot.  I agree, though, that it is this pivot
> > that makes the figure exciting.

Andy wrote:

>    The way I learned siding, there is no "pivot". The figure is
done
> with shoulders squared to your partner as in a gypsy except halfway
> and back instead of all the way around. Some people have
interpreted 
> it as passing your partner, then turning (pivoting) to face them.
> This was certainly not the way Gay and Genny taught it when I first
> went to Pinewoods thirty years ago.

--- Patricia Ruggiero wrote:
> The following is an excerpt from private correspondence between me
> and Andy:

> Your comment about siding is most instructive.  I tried it and
> found that it matches the feel of the historical figure of sides,
> whereas pivot siding does not.

Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as
many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only that, I
remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's
place, but only about 3/4 of the way over.

Lyrl
_____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:27:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:26:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e68c5501.24db234d-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Okay, okay...

My partner's elbow knocked one of my teeth out as he whipped me around from 
the end of a four-in-line to a cozy-line during "Triskadecaphobia" at a 
contra dance in Santa Cruz several years ago.  Quite the cautionary tale 
against horsing around to excess!  Also a great example of why it's good to 
become a member of one's dance organization: our insurance covered everything 
from the emergency visit to the oral surgeon's office, the temporary 
"flipper" while the socket healed, and the reconstructive bridgework -- about 
$2300 all together -- at a time when I was an impoverished grad student.

Despite the efforts of the oral surgeon to get it to reattach to my gums by 
wiring it into place within half an hour of the accident, the above-mentioned 
tooth ejected from it's socket *while* I was calling a contra-dance in Chico 
the following weekend.  There was an unusually high percentage of newcomers 
that night, so I was obliged to continue prompting through much of each 
dance.  The tooth socket had been quite traumatized, so I did the best I 
could to hold my tooth steady with my fingers pressed to my upper lip, to 
keep it from moving about as I conducted the walk-through's and as I called.  
There was no one else present who could call, so I felt obliged to continue 
in this fashion for the rest of the evening, which was more than half the 
dance.  

Worse yet, when I returned to the oral surgeon a few days later, he confessed 
that he hadn't realized how old I was (34 at the time) and hinted that he 
probably wouldn't have attempted saving the tooth if he had known I wasn't in 
my mid-20s.  Goes to show that looking younger than your years isn't always 
an advantage, even after you're old enough to go dancing in bars.  Three days 
later I took the all-day state board written exam for my acupuncturist's 
license -- with my #7 tooth missing.

There's a few more tales I could share, but time is running short for 
preparations to fly to LA for a weekend of calling and dancing, with a 6-day 
backpacking trip to follow immediately.  My kitchen is cluttered with ziplock 
bags full of dried goodies and whatnot, and my bed is covered with camping 
gear and dance clothes.  I'll see if this thread is still going by the time I 
get back on the 16th.

Heavenly performance alert!  The Perseids meteor shower peaks next week, and 
with the benefit of the new moon (darker sky), astronomers predict a flashier 
show than usual.  Find yourself a place away from the city lights to lay out 
your sleeping bag, and watch the fun!  For more info, surf to: 
http://www.skypub.com/sights/skyevents/9908skyevents.html  I'm hoping to view 
it from the top of a 10,000 foot peak.

Bye for now,
Reine Wonite
Chico, CA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:45:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:45:01 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Performances gone awry
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a9e9bd.1be3.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>>From Mary Devlin:
>The time we were dancing on TV and the floor was cement.  It was very slick

>and had taps on -- was like dancing on ice -- and from time to time one of

>us would disappear as we hit the ground...

I remember Reel Nutmeg doing a performance on a stage that was polished as slick
as glass. Worst floor I've ever danced on. The school somehoow thought that
they were getting the Mountain Laurel Cloggers as Jim Gregory was in both groups
and he was the contact through someone else. The English and Early American
dances that we did weren't what the kids had expected. Probably the only thing
they remember from our entire performance was when Ira Laby slipped and landed
flat on his back. It was a spectacular spill as he got a bit to rambunctious
for the slick floor.
>
>In the "determined dancing" category --
>
>Performing at the zoo during a concert intermission, the bluegrass band
>accompanying us didn't quite get the idea of _4_ potatoes...  We started
>after four, they played 8,  and we smiled a lot.
>

A couple of the Mountain Laurel Cloggers put together a routine to "Dueling
Banjos" and the first time they performed it was at a bluegrass festival with
a live band. The band didn't know the tune so they did the routine A Capella.
Always talk to your band before the performance is planned.

>The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather
>catwalk-like.  It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step.  Like
>clogging on a trampoline.
>
Sounds like the same one Darren fell off the back of. 

Andy Peterson
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:41:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:41:25 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <000201bedfac$cb644e30$f898ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello, Lyrl,

You wrote:

>Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as
many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only that, I
remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's
place, but only about 3/4 of the way over.

Regarding pivot siding, as I learned it::

I suppose it is possible that some folks would march over and ignore their
partners, but I was always taught that partners maintained eye contact
throughout.  I was also taught, as you say, NOT to go over to the partner's
place but only partway.

Pat

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:36:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:34:49 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37AA9018.867AF017-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <v01540b02b3ce0842991b-AT-
[155.99.169.236]>



Emma Rushton wrote:

> How do you do "face en face"?

Face en face is a movement for two dancers having their backs on each
other. They start by moving backwards, passing each other by the right,
and then come forward passing each other by the left, finishing the
movement where they started it.

This movement can be found in:
- Three Ladies Yard, by Cor Hogendijk
- Winnie the Pooh's Cakewalk, by Fried de Metz
- Impertinence, by Fried de Metz
- and several other Fried's dances

A few months ago I found a dance that had a movement "Front to back", by
John Pike. Have a look at:
http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/knighton/wyenot.htm

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:48:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: FW: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990806124102.645.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


---Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as
> many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only
that, I
> remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's
> place, but only about 3/4 of the way over.
>


That is useful to know.  I always have trouble making it over and
back in the allotted time.  Thanks for the information.

Barbara Ruth
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:59:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:58:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: MartinezPC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up (Face en face)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <d4a87174.24dc360b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In a message dated 8/6/99 2:38:12 AM Central Daylight Time, 
Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be writes: 
 
 " Face en face is a movement for two dancers having their backs on each
 other. They start by moving backwards, passing each other by the right,
 and then come forward passing each other by the left, finishing the
 movement where they started it."

To add a bit to Philippe's description, the "face en face" is often found (at 
least in Fried's dances) in conjunction with a back-to-back, and the one 
feels like a reversal of the other.  Let's say a face-en-face follows a back 
to back:  the partners dance back to back, and at the end of the movement, 
without "adjusting" leftward to be directly face to face with partner (as one 
usually does), they pivot to face out of the set and then execute the "face 
en face" as described by Philippe above.
 
Carol Martinez
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 07:18:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:18:14 -0400
From: Torbin Zimmerman <torbin-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37AAE094.4EECE598-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT-
jps.net> <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>

For what it's worth, Thomas Wilson published, in 1820, I believe, "The
Complete System of English Country Dancing, Containing All the Figures
Ever Used in English Country Dancing with a Variety of New Figures and
New Reels..."

I haven't researched which of his figures were new or if they actually
appear in dances, but at least this indicates Wilson thought his
audience was open to new figures.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:26:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:14:17 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sharp Siding
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <199908061126_MC2-7FF0-C8A7-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi all -
to me, the friendliness of dancing with partners and/or a set rates very
high! As I'm calling for beginners quite frequently, and since I myself can
only demonstrate half a figure (a partner necessary for the other half), I
had to think of another way of teaching Sharp siding. I ask the dancers to
a) let their belly buttons smile at each other, and
           b) pretend that they are holding a barrel between them.
That takes the emphasis away from 'which foot' and 'how to reverse
directions'. I've been told that those images are memorable enough as to
practice them...

  _-AT-
_      {)/'
 /\ /\_._,<_/
'  \      /_\
   />    /<  Hanny Budnick

            
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:11:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:10:49 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Making Stuff Up
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000101bee02e$a16dfd10$5b98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

"Making stuff up" also occurs in the reconstruction of a dance's sequence of
figures.  The practice is not limited to dances with unclear instructions
but to any dance the reconstructor deems unsuitable for any reason.  Several
elements of the 18th c. dance aesthetic have, consequently, been altered or
eliminated.

Pat Ruggiero
hamlet of Wilmington
between Charlottesville and Richmond, Va.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Philippe Callens
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:18 AM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up


This may become quite a thread ... Marian!

Heyer wrote:

> I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his
earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I
figure someone here will probably know about:
>
> Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new
figures from time to time?  Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon
Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them
into new dances?  Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of
new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous
editions?
>

There certainly is! After all, in such a long period (c.1650-c.1820) things
did not remain unchanged. And that's also true for steps, formation, music,
... For example compare Hearts Ease (Playford, 1651), Lille (Walsh, 1710)
and Juliana (Wilson, 1814). Execution of figures changed, too: "rights and
lefts" is an example of that.

> And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures?  If so, what are
some examples?

Oh yes, although we, late 20th century ECD dancers, leaders, and
choreographers, shouldn't think we invented it all. "Face en face" is
probably a "new figure". Fried de Metz has used that movement a lot in her
dances (although it also pops up in a Cor Hogendijk dance, published 1973).
A figure sometimes becomes new when it is felt that it should be defined and
named.

Philippe Callens
Antwerp, Belgium



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:39:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:40:04 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Circling without hands
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000201bee032$b7ada630$5b98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Phillippe wrote:

>A few months ago I found a dance that had a movement "Front to back", by
John Pike. Have a look at:
http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/knighton/wyenot.htm

That dance also has the "walking single file" figure, a recent thread on
this list.  Notice that John Pike simply calls in "circle...without hands."

Pat Ruggiero

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 08:05:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 17:11:48 +0200
From: Antony Heywood <antony-AT-
iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up
To: "'Mailing List, ECD'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <19990807150523.3B2D920F69-AT-
iaehv.iae.nl>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Victoria Bestock wrote

> Antony Heywood has used the very original
> figure from the B1 of his Enrichez-Vous in another dance, so
> it probably
> constitutes a new figure, but he hasn't named it, leaving us
> the problem of
> explaining it each time to people who haven't seen it before.

There was some discussion about teaching this figure about 11 months ago on
the list and I tried out some of the ideas at a workshop last October
without reaching any conclusion.
Once dancers have grasped it, the figure is elegant and fun to do especially
if the inactive corners wait until the last moment (last 2 bars in Enrichez
Vous) before moving up/down so that they can catch the eye of the dancer
coming round the corner.
I didn't give the figure a name even though I used it in another dance
(which? how did you know that Vicky?) because I didn't want it necessarily
to be associated with me. Figures should be free for all to use.

For those who haven't a clue what we're talking about, Enrichez Vous can be
found in the following publications: English Dance and Song Summer 1992,
Potters' Porch and Dutch Crossing.

> ... circle left in single file called "goose walk" ...
> there was a stunned silence at Mendocino this summer when Philippe used
the term, and an
> audible sigh of relief when he explained what he meant.

Did Philippe explain that the Dutch (Flemish) expression for a single file
circle is "gansepas" (goose step) and that this is entirely acceptable over
here?

Antony Heywood


begin 666 winmail.dat
M>)\^(-AT-
T/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-AT-
`(````Y 0```````#H``$(-AT-
 <`
M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-AT-
36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-AT-
`"``$&
M-AT-
 ,`#-AT-
```,\'" `'`!$`"P````8`!P$!`Y &`!0)```G````"P`"``$````+
M`",```````,`)-AT-
``````"P`I```````#`#8``````!X`< `!````% ```%)E
M.B!-86MI;F<-AT-
4W1U9F8-AT-
57 ``-AT-
%Q``$````6`````;[-AT-
YRLVR'X314S?$=.3
MV+Z1*YL+? ```-AT-
$=# $````5````4TU44#I!3E1/3EE 24%%2%8N3DP`````
M"P`!#-AT-
````! ``8.`!J:#N?-AT-
O-AT-
$"`0H.`0```!-AT-
`````````F]D*G[,DTA&;
ML0" 7_IL\\* ```#`!0.`0````L`'PX!`````P`&$)0J0M\#``<0J00``!X`
M"! !````90```%9)0U1/4DE!0D535$]#2U=23U1%04Y43TY92$595T]/1$A!
M4U5314142$5615)93U))1TE.04Q&24=54D5&4D]-5$A%0C%/1DA)4T5.4DE#
M2$5:+59/55-)3D%.3U1(15)$04X``````-AT-
$)$ $```#8! ``U 0``/X&``!,
M6D9U)R6]>0,`"-AT-
!R8W!G,3(U%C(`^ M-AT-
;-AT-
X0,#,SG0'W( *D`^,"`&-H"L!-AT-

M<V5T," '$P* ?1D*-AT-
75C`% +`W5L;D4"(&4+I3(-AT-
5-AT-
W-AT-
=#,%L <P($('D!/-AT-

M8VOT('<#8'03$ JQ"H0*-AT-
 X^$7 ", (-AT-
>2!(96AY=V\$<" 1``0-AT-
=8,1,!; 
M=&AE('8$D+L60!/Q9PN !T 5=F88($\(<!>0`U(78T(Q%_!F8Q;0! `-AT-
16X%
M$!#P9;AZ+58(8 0-AT-
"X -AT-
`' 7%. 7-AT-
 7 9 !P8V4LJ"!S;Q5V:05 < --AT-
<F(!
MH&QY%78%H " =/T=0'44\ 0-AT-
%" 3``?-AT-
&00]'(!B'N 6T!>0%N%N)S\%0!A0
M!X 6P!U '(!L9?1A=-AT-
N 9Q<1%787<AURSR&0&: :,!5V97-AT-
+4R'2OQU!(: 0
M\!=-AT-
!W$78&\=8,QE;PM0%Y!W:"6-AT-
$0#?%[ -AT-
LA$P"? =,F(!$ 6P]&4N%1I4
M&_$F$1;Q'*#U)6%D! !C%R `D (-AT-
&Z#_!N -AT-
(13P)0$ATA=P&G$9!5TJ1#$:
M$ 1-AT-
`C!H'Q%G[R6-AT-
`B 5%!=R; 0`!4 `</T6P$D78 B!%L J8BE#&C'M%W)I
M`0`6\6$N(12P!;!T:W,F0' A-AT-
!;P!4!/^Q/1)W!R%10#\!=P*F()<.\JQ0!P
M%D ><6,*0"GR)]7>3QQ1'"01("9C( G %O!?)< A-!=R&04:<64AD&>S`' N
M)&9U`Z ED60EH/L'D"7 8P<Q'=8&D"^T&%#]$]!I-;$%H1,`-6$I`!U!_SA0
M'K #("VS,5($8 > -]'^*#%#$Y =H#5A&X$:IA44G1LR*2=E+'$AQ' O.+#^
M=P.-AT-
'* 783!A%W$SD0.1_4& ="42%X$6<"]W-105%/T%H&TAT-AT-
--AT-
.% 75#KD
M)]7[+H ID&0-AT-
LA-AT-
P-;$VJ1\QWR$!) `FD1=A"&!G)2 N-AT-
&\7(QU!&XX5%"-AT-
F
M,!K1/R<6T$!P1<(-AT-
>0A-AT-
(&N/$N 'X$#C$[%K>3\_,O]!-AT-
!<A+G%%U2D`-]$=
M01,`_QQ-AT-
!! *P ,0'>4ED2=P&Z#_!! 4-AT-
 <P%/ 6P#)B+' GP-P-AT-
1AD3*2$R
MD6P6P$^A_P-0"> 8\ 6Q.4$E-AT-
A<A)]O^1-AT-
6Q,H%-(28Z%" SX282,3!A=V4G
M&4$!D&QK_S,S*E(<-AT-
!JF$Z ;0D&")W#_%10"$$1B&X$VHP;P"0`#\'DAX7!U
M`F -X#!-AT-
*-AT-
%SVCH:D6<M\24-AT-
1!Q"+C/&4P(-AT-
(?!3=6T'-AT-
 7 H#$Y.3(L%110
M%.#3%/ 1("<-AT-
7B!R)1$N0O9$'N E$4,#8"GA#R GV^T5T"YA(!Y-AT-
:5[0)-AT-
$A
MD/\!-AT-
$D"7_(F`1D`)-AT-
%!-AT-
#E0W1=!(BT`5)-6P2)A$B(Y_RC5%" 48#A0$P`6
MP "0(9#[7#,%0$T)\#BP.2 2X"LD;G-=%"8P)Q%0&F M\'#O)< 7$RU87E%M
M'( N0-AT-
!P_Q5V30`ID",A8D%(01HQ"7#_+? !$&A$0C(D)%!20/(7-AT-
?<'-AT-
#?!
M)]M$2T%HIR050-?Y7T4H1B,Q6]$_,"0145'_*?-2-AT-
V)*0W5A=!IQ8X `<>IE
M"K!S9# H8Y048'5P_S\P+D) Y1IQ-U([P6Q1%D#_`- <8 4P';$O<1>Q%10H
MLKX_%1H5_!48:641\0!\T ,`$! ``````P`1$ `````+``" "" &``````# 
M````````1-AT-
`````#A0````````,``H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!"%
M`````````P`(-AT-
 -AT-
-AT-
!-AT-
``````P ```````$8``````84````````#`!: "" &
M``````# ````````1-AT-
`````1A0````````,`'( (( 8``````, ```````!&
M`````%*%``#P$P``'-AT-
`=-AT-
 -AT-
-AT-
!-AT-
``````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$
M````."XU``L`'H (( 8``````, ```````!&``````:%````````"P`B-AT-
 -AT-
-AT-

M!-AT-
``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`"2 "" &``````# ````````
M1-AT-
`````8A0```````!X`,X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:%```!````
M`0`````````>`#2 "" &``````# ````````1-AT-
`````WA0```0````$`````
M````'-AT-
`U-AT-
 -AT-
-AT-
!-AT-
``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!``````````L`
M0( +( 8``````, ```````!&``````"(````````"P!"-AT-
 L-AT-
!-AT-
``````P ``
M`````$8`````!8-AT-
````````"`?-AT-
/`0```! ```";V0J?LR32$9NQ`(!?^FSS
M`-AT-
'Z#P$````0````F]D*G[,DTA&;L0" 7_IL\P(!^P\!````3 `````````X
MH;L0!>40&J&[" `K*E;"``!M<W!S="YD;&P``````$Y)5$'YO[-AT-
!`*H`-]EN
M````0SI<3W5T;&]O:UQM86EL8F]X+G!S= `#`/X/!0````,`#33]-P```-AT-
%_
M``$````Q````,# P,# P,# Y0D0Y,$$Y1D(S,C1$,C$Q.4)",3 P.# U1D9!
2-D-&,T$T.#0R-3 P`````#XT
`
end

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:59:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990807215141.17483.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

---adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

> Great plug for NOMAD, which I would love to go to sometime, but
the festival
> I was at was a year or two before NOMAD was started and was in a
city park in
> Middletown.

Well that explains why you had the city wrong :).  NOMAD of course
is in Newtown not Middletown.

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 09:43:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:42:33 -0400
From: JHMTurner <JHMTurner-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199908081242_MC2-8035-DA78-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

SET NOMAIL
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 11:02:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:47:52 -0400
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990808.135436.-119729.12.catdancer-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

AHHH!  NO!!!  This can't be!  Please, Lyrl, tell us this is a joke!

Helen Tuzio


On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
writes:
>
>> That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of
>> music and dance in Connecticut.  THIS Fall it will be taking place
>> on the weekend of of November 5-7.  I don't know if there will be 
>> any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we
>> have got English!
>
>The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend
>is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at
>our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a
>workshop/party on Saturday.
>
>Lyrl Ahern
>
>_____________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com
>

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:52:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:52:10 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: NOMAD & Boston Special Caller Weekend
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37addfea.59db.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sorry Helen, I meant to send this to the whole list. 

No joke, but the next Saturday (November 13) is the Portland English Ball with

Friday night dance and Sunday brunch.

Andy in Portland

>AHHH!  NO!!!  This can't be!  Please, Lyrl, tell us this is a joke!
>
>Helen Tuzio
>
>
>On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
>writes:
>>
>>> That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of
>>> music and dance in Connecticut.  THIS Fall it will be taking place
>>> on the weekend of of November 5-7.  I don't know if there will be 
>>> any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we
>>> have got English!
>>
>>The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend
>>is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at
>>our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a
>>workshop/party on Saturday.
>>
>>Lyrl Ahern
>>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:48:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:48:10 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs)
To: ECD_LIST <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199908081948_MC2-8046-AEA0-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

If I may exploit the bandwidth of our forum to answer a couple of
frequently asked questions coming my way (and save myself lots of
typing!)...

1. You can obtain the just-released Bare Necessities "Favorites of the
Boston Centre" CD by:

a. Buying it from one of the BN's themselves or me if we're at an event you
are attending.

b. Buying it at the Pinewoods bookstore.

c. Ordering it from the Boston Centre at:
        CDS Boston Centre
        1950 Massachusetts Avenue
        Cambridge, MA  02140
        (617) 354-1340

d. Ordering it from the CDSS at:
        Sales Department
        CDSS
        132 Main Street, PO Box 338
        Haydenville, MA  01039-0338
        (413) 268-7426
        sales-AT-
cdss.org

2. The dances/tunes appearing on the 2nd CD "More Favorites of the Boston
Centre" to be released in October are:

Lilliburlero
Up With Aily
Bonny Cuckoo
Trip to Paris
Punchbowl
Kelsterne Gardens
Dublin Bay
Fair and Softly
From Aberdeen
Wibsey Roundabout 
Elverton Grove
Bellamira
Prince William
Smithy Hill

3. Tentative titles/subjects for CD's #3 and #4 are  "Simple Pleasures"
[easy ECD's] and "Modern Treasures" [contemporary ECD's].

Thanks for your attention, and for your past and future ideas.  We now
return you to our regularly scheduled programming....

Gene Murrow
EC Dancer, Caller, Musician, sometime Producer
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 06:56:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:56:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908091356.JAA08326-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Just a slight correction on what Gene posted...

>c. Ordering it from the Boston Centre...

CDS Boston is NOT doing retail sales at this time.  We are doing wholesale
bulk orders to bona fide dealers at this time.

These are the dealers who can handle your order:

	Anglo-American Dance Service (BELGIUM)
	aads-AT-
village.uunet.be
        http://gallery.uunet.be/aads/

	Country Dance and Song Society (Massachusetts, USA)
        sales-AT-
cdss.org
	http://www.cdss.org/        

	Folk Arts Center of New England (Massachusetts, USA)
        fac-AT-
facone.org
        http://www.facone.org/

	Cotswold Music Society (ENGLAND)
        cotswoldmusic-AT-
ndirect.co.uk
        http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~cotswoldmusic/



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:06:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:06:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Wed. Aug. 11: English dance in Princeton, NJ
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908091751330.9309-100000-AT-
flagstaff.Princeton.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Attention dance-starved New Yorkers, Philadelphians, and anyone passing
through the region: the Princeton Country Dancers keep dancing all summer
in an air-conditioned hall.  

This Wednesday, August 11, we present an English dance with the unusual
(for us) inclusion of a harpsichord in the band.

When: 8-10:30 p.m.

Where: Suzanne Patterson Center, behind Princeton Borough Hall near
intersection of Routes 206 and 27 (Stockton and Nassau Streets)

Caller: Sue Dupre
Band: Richard Fischer, Tom Gibney, Susie Lorand, and Janet Palumbo

Janet Palumbo performs and records Baroque music with the local
period-instrument ensemble Triomphe de l'Amour (which appeared at the
Boston Early Music Festival in June). We're very pleased that she's now
playing harpsichord and piano for ECD. The rest of us play recorders and
modern fiddles, among other things.

Check the PCD web page <http://www.princetonol.com/groups/pcd/> for more
info., or e-mail me at srl-AT-
princeton.edu.

- Susie Lorand

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:41:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:38:13 -0700
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
geocities.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: re:  New Bare Necessities recordings (non-FAQs)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990809233813.00919258-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

After giving the new BN's CD several hours of good use, I was left with a
nagging, and probably not-frequently-asked, question. 

The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the
Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the
US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my
fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the
woods (L.A.).
Could someone share the instructions for it? 
Especially now that a good recording is available, I have been itching to
give it a solo try in the living room, and then (if suitable) inflict it
upon the band and the regular crowd.

Thank you for any help you can provide. Giovanni De Amici

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:01:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:01:40 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000301bee2d4$49660740$4798ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Well, Giovanni, I remember dancing it with you!  About 10 years ago, at
Dan's dance, in Silver Spring, Md.

The dance and music are in Between Two Ponds, now collected in Pat Shaw's
Pinewoods, available (I assume) from CDSS.

Pat Ruggiero
no longer in the Washington, D.C. area

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of South Bay
English Country Dance
Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:38 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: re: New Bare Necessities recordings (non-FAQs)


After giving the new BN's CD several hours of good use, I was left with a
nagging, and probably not-frequently-asked, question.

The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the
Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the
US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my
fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the
woods (L.A.).
Could someone share the instructions for it?
Especially now that a good recording is available, I have been itching to
give it a solo try in the living room, and then (if suitable) inflict it
upon the band and the regular crowd.

Thank you for any help you can provide. Giovanni De Amici


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:46:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:46:19 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Quite Carr-ied Away, for Joan Carr
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007803b3d50667e9dc-AT-
[140.186.62.209]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

triple minor

A1
1s and 2s crcl 1/2 and pass thru (ax set)
1s b-to-b along line (M up with 2nd M, L down w/ 3rd L) end facing ptnr

A2
1s crcl with the cpl at the other end of the set
whole set (this looks so neat!) b-to-b ptnr (1s in middle, all prop)

B1
1s r-hnd trn all the way (4 bars, very spacious)
1M 1/2 hey up with 2s while 1L 1/2 hey down with 3s, interrupt hey with
r-hnd trn person of opposite sex in that couple, then
1s back in the middle position pass by left shoulder DON'T TOUCH (maybe
Hole-in-the-Wall type cross over) to be improp.  All improp, still 2,1,3.

B2
1s r-hnd trn all the way then hey at the other end (1M down, 1L up),
finishing hey with r-hnd trn w/ person of opp sex in that couple, then
1s pass by l shldr and reach down for new circle at beginning of the next
round.

A great ones dance, but requires real carriage and complete alertness on
the part of the other two couples.

Very spacious and leisurely (sp) especially across the set.  Not for a
crowded room!  In Boston we do this with a waltz step - a "dip, level,
level" movement of the body.  And remember Helene's exhortations to keep
moving forward all the time, all 3 steps the same length and always moving
forward.

As Nibs said: "keep the egg out of the egg cup!"

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:08:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:19:45 -0500 (EST)
From: GAFF-AT-
neu.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fall Favorites dance in Boston
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JELQ595R7E8WZH0W-AT-
neu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This year the Boston Centre's Fall Favorites dance is coming early. Due
to scheduling problems with our band, it will be held on Saturday
September 25 at the Park Avenue Congregational Church,
Park Avenue and Paul Revere Road, Arlington Heights, MA.

The leader will be Helene Cornelius, the musicians Mary Lea and Jacqueline
Schwab, and the admission price $8 in advance and $10 at the door.
   As usual, those registering in advance may nominate five dances for
inclusion in the program.  The program will be made up primarily of the
dances which receive the largest number of votes. (Your picks may wind up 
on some future CD!)
Those wishing to register in advance should send checks for $8.00 per dancer 
made out to CDS, Boston Centre, along with their dance nominations to 
Arthur Ferguson. his address is:
31 Ledgewood Road
Framingham, MA  01701-3626

To be included in the program your nominations should reach
Arthur by September 20.

 Best,
 Terry Gaffney
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:25:16 -0700
From: Laurie Buchanan <laurieb-AT-
cirl.uoregon.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03102800b3d60eb43f21-AT-
[128.223.40.51]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Sun, 08 Aug Gene Murrow wrote:

>1. You can obtain the just-released Bare Necessities "Favorites of the
>Boston Centre" CD by:
>
>a. Buying it from one of the BN's themselves or me if we're at an event you
>are attending.

I would like to add that you may get it from me at events I attend in the
Northwest.  In the next while look for it at:  WFF (Seattle) in August,
Suttle Lake camp in Sept, Portland and Seattle Balls in November and
January.  No mail order.  All profits go to Bare Necessities.

Anyone from Vancouver on the list?  Write to me privately and we can figure
out a way to get some up there.

Laurie Buchanan
Dance Gypsy and sometime purveyor of fine tunes


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:14 -0700
From: Laurie Buchanan <laurieb-AT-
cirl.uoregon.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03102801b3d61109cb69-AT-
[128.223.40.51]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 09 Aug Giovanni De Amici wrote:

>The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the
>Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the
>US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my
>fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the
>woods (L.A.).

Hi Giovanni,

Were you at the BACDS Fall Weekend several years ago (when it was still at
La Honda) with Helene Cornelius?  She taught it there and Jenny Beer picked
it up, so we occasionally danced it on Wednesdays at the old Oakland
location.  Maybe you danced it there.   It has been on the Seattle and
perhaps the Portland ball programs in the past, too.  Wonderful dance.   Do
put it on your teaching list.

Laurie in Eugene


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:20:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:20:05 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away, for Joan Carr
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37b07b65.350d.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

> Emily L. Ferguson wrote:
>
>As Nibs said: "keep the egg out of the egg cup!"
>
I remember Genny Shimer saying that almost thirty years ago.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:31:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:30:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <85e40f35.24e20202-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment, 
which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on 
this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright 
on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'?
                                                Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:04:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:04:11 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007801b3d6272f6e89-AT-
[140.186.62.134]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 6:30 PM -0400 8/10/99, SallenNic-AT-
aol.com wrote:
>There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment,
>which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on
>this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright
>on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'?
>                                                Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.

well, it's a toss up between waiting to get the instructions and then
trying to decipher them from the book, which in the case of Pat is
relatively easy, or getting a jump start on the process from the list.

In US law, currently, web appearance is still considered publication,
though, not fair use.

Anybody want to address this question from CDS, CDS-BC and PS-S estate?

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:24:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:24:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JELWITK8CO9UNOOT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Nicolas writes:

  There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment,
  which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on
  this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright
  on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'?

I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do know
about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law.  So
take this for what it's worth, which isn't much:

I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance,
rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods."  As
far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since copyright
inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words
themselves.  Since you can't copyright titles - thus, there's both a 
Rogers & Hart and a Jerome Kern "On A Desert Island With You" - and the words
are different and the music isn't included, we don't have a copyright
violation.

My general feelings about putting dance notation on this list: Courtesy
to living authors demands that we don't post their work without their
permission. (If I'm having problems with sussing out a dance - as, in
fact, I did with this very dance a couple of years ago - I may excerpt
the particular portion I'm having problems with, like the 'B1' portion;
this seems fair to me, since it doesn't give the whole dance directions
to anyone who doesn't have them.)

If dances are still in copyright and being posted by someone who doesn't
have specific permission of the copyright holder, I would prefer that
the notation not be posted to the list.  (You can always email the
requestor privately - and then the dance isn't in the web archive).  But
I'm not very much upset by it unless, as I say, it's a living author.

It appears that dances in the contra community are likelier to propagate
through caller card exchanges and callers simply noting down dances they
liked; other's people's contras show up regularly on rec.folk-dancing,
and this seems to be perfectly okay for them.  [This may both be because
most contras don't call for a specific tune and because many contra
choreographers don't publish.]

But ECD choreographers and reconstructors often do publish, and to make
it worth their while - or at least somewhat less thankless - we should
buy their books if we plan to use their dances, at least if those books
are in print.  

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:57:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:56:02 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <003101bee3ad$e9540e80$f2e5490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JELWITK8CO9UNOOT-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a program
(and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or
three months ahead)  and each dance is in a different book, it might take
ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that are
out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to $200
just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission charges
for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to
me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer
people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of my
experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar situation.

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away


>
> Nicolas writes:
>
>   There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the
moment,
>   which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance
on
>   this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985
copyright
>   on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'?
>
> I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do
know
> about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law.
So
> take this for what it's worth, which isn't much:
>
> I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance,
> rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods."  As
> far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since
copyright
> inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words
> themselves.  Since you can't copyright titles - thus, there's both a
> Rogers & Hart and a Jerome Kern "On A Desert Island With You" - and the
words
> are different and the music isn't included, we don't have a copyright
> violation.
>
> My general feelings about putting dance notation on this list: Courtesy
> to living authors demands that we don't post their work without their
> permission. (If I'm having problems with sussing out a dance - as, in
> fact, I did with this very dance a couple of years ago - I may excerpt
> the particular portion I'm having problems with, like the 'B1' portion;
> this seems fair to me, since it doesn't give the whole dance directions
> to anyone who doesn't have them.)
>
> If dances are still in copyright and being posted by someone who doesn't
> have specific permission of the copyright holder, I would prefer that
> the notation not be posted to the list.  (You can always email the
> requestor privately - and then the dance isn't in the web archive).  But
> I'm not very much upset by it unless, as I say, it's a living author.
>
> It appears that dances in the contra community are likelier to propagate
> through caller card exchanges and callers simply noting down dances they
> liked; other's people's contras show up regularly on rec.folk-dancing,
> and this seems to be perfectly okay for them.  [This may both be because
> most contras don't call for a specific tune and because many contra
> choreographers don't publish.]
>
> But ECD choreographers and reconstructors often do publish, and to make
> it worth their while - or at least somewhat less thankless - we should
> buy their books if we plan to use their dances, at least if those books
> are in print.
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:01:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:00:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JEM6VPQL36A9KZOR-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dianna Shipman writes:

-----------
One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a program
(and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or
three months ahead)  and each dance is in a different book, it might take
ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that are
out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to $200
just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission charges
for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to
me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer
people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of my
experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar situation.
-----------

Welcome to the list, Dianna!


I don't know if it's standard all around the world.  Here on the West Coast,
and apparently in New York as well, the organizers of English balls get
appropriate permissions from living authors and publish booklets (and sometimes
web sites) with dance directions for the selected dances.  The booklets are
sent out to pre-registered attendees of the ball.  This handles the problem
fairly effectively.

What do the Scots do?


-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:49:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:50:54 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <007d01bee3b5$1ccf83a0$f2e5490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JEM6VPQL36A9KZOR-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Scots similar - but sometimes the booklets with the descriptions are not
ready to be mailed out until only 2 -4 weeks before the event  (no matter
how far ahead you send in your money) and that is not enough time to learn
all the dances.  Most devisors of dances that I know of don't seem bothered
by the copyright issue and just want acknowledgment for devising a fun
dance - they wrote them to be danced - and the small income (even if
everyone bought a book) is so insignificant to them that it just doesn't
seem to matter - oddly enough the devisors of the largest numbers of popular
dances seem the least bothered and the few that I've come across who make
such a fuss usually have written dances that aren't all that appealing any
way - a question we discussed on the Scottish list that may one day be
practical is to have a central clearing house of dance descriptions
available by email that you set up an account with credit card or deposit
and pay a small fee for each dance description requested with the clearing
house distributing appropriate amounts to the devisors of dances, say once a
year,  with some sort of computerized system that automatically tabulates -
this might increase income since even if you own the book doesn't mean you
can find it when you need it for a dance description for a social or ball.

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away


> Dianna Shipman writes:
>
> -----------
> One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a
program
> (and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or
> three months ahead)  and each dance is in a different book, it might take
> ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that
are
> out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to
$200
> just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission
charges
> for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to
> me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer
> people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of
my
> experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar
situation.
> -----------
>
> Welcome to the list, Dianna!
>
>
> I don't know if it's standard all around the world.  Here on the West
Coast,
> and apparently in New York as well, the organizers of English balls get
> appropriate permissions from living authors and publish booklets (and
sometimes
> web sites) with dance directions for the selected dances.  The booklets
are
> sent out to pre-registered attendees of the ball.  This handles the
problem
> fairly effectively.
>
> What do the Scots do?
>
>
> -- Alan
>
>
>
============================================================================
===
>  Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
>  Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:
650/926-3056
>  Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA
94309-0210
>
============================================================================
===
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:39:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:39:05 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007801b3d69b46b605-AT-
[140.186.62.130]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do know
>about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law.  So
>take this for what it's worth, which isn't much:
>
>I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance,
>rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods."  As
>far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since copyright
>inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words
>themselves.

I have a book of my own, called One Caller's Cards, in which I have
condensed the instructions for about 500 dances down to something akin to
what a caller might use to prompt, or "teach" the dance.  Each card
contains a 2 or 3 bar citation of the melody, enough to remind the caller,
also at the top a clear citation to the original source publication, as
well as a field for level of difficulty starting at easiest = 1, hardest =
6.

I drew my ever-so-slightly fleshed out instructions for the dance from
that, rather than going to the source.

BUT - to me a good ECD caller always goes to the source first when
preparing for the dance, or at least always when preparing a new dance card
to call from.

Amazing the mistakes that creep in when you don't.  I've seen people call
who have never looked at the original and the dances have all kinds of
little mistakes in them.

If you're going to lead dancing, you need to own as many publications as
you can possibly afford, and prepare your calling cards from them.


                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:13:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:13:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908110957390.26996-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I'm somewhat amazed at the pc-type enthusiasm for supporting the exact
letter of a law (the US copyright law) which was clearly written with not
one iota of consideration for the subject to which it is being applied.  

Copyright law, it seems to me, masquerades as protecting "intellectual
property" and purportedly protects the small guy from abuses of such
property.  But, realistically speaking, the only ones that it really
protects are the ones who can afford to prosecute.  

I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians,
composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are
better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at
least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for
the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music
for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these
dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared).  Specific types
of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and
distribution, such as any commercial use.  While defining such a boundary
would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more
appropriate place than where it presently resides.

Recordings and publications could have explicit statements permitting
"approved" use which could be broader than currently permitted under
copyright law.  I feel very strongly that we would not benefit over-all
from an ASCAP-type setup regulating the use and providing for the
collection of payments, and the distribution of some fraction of them to
the publishers of the material.  The only ones who really benefit from
this are the large operators and the system of leeches who siphon off
their fraction of the total for their "service."

I feel that for most of us who are involved in the creative processes that
produce new country dances and music, the primary purpose is to get the
dances out there to be danced and enjoyed.  Recognition for the work is
nice but secondary for me, at least; others have to speak for themselves.
The main protection that we need is blatant misuse of the intellectual
rights for commercial purposes; I certainly don't feel that the word-of
mouth copying of dance instructions from another caller at dances violates
the spirit in which the dance is offered, and I would like to see this
idea recognized as a legitimate way of distributing the material.

Similarly, I feel that individual copying of instructions and music with
copiers, either for dancers to learn or for callers to use in this spirit,
is also in the general interest and a statement allowing such use could be
included by those who feel similarly.  A general policy appropriate for
the purposes of using these dance materials most evffectively might be
drafted, say, by CDSS, or by some representatives of several different
interested groups; they might establish several different levels of
permitted use, depending on the creator's wishes, and one could state that
permission is granted for use at some level, with possible exceptions
and/or additions to that specification.  Conditions for use might, for
example, change when a document becomes out-of-print, and again if it is
reprinted.

Please note that I have no problem at all with the idea of buying the
published works when they are available.  In fact, I buy practically
everything I can get my hands on in my area of interest, rather broadly
defined.  I want this material to be available, and I don't begrudge the
publishers of this material the right to recover their costs in making it
available plus an additional amount for the time and effort that they put
into it.  But I certainly don't expect my dancers to do the same.  

It is interesting to note that, in most areas of discussion about dance,
writers are reluctant to tell others what they _should_ do.  Certainly at
the level of one dancer helping another, gentle hints are much more
welcoming and effective than "you should do this"...  Similarly, at the
level of training other leaders, the best advice seems to be to lead by
example, but to let people find their own approaches for themselves,
without "should."  Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over
what I or you _should_ do.  Is this really out of the realm where I should
think for myself?

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:45:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:44:21 -0700
From: South Bay English Country Dance <sbecd-AT-
geocities.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990811164421.0291aae0-AT-
pop.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hi Laurie.
no, I was not at that camp, and really do not remember ever dancing this
dance (or tune). Pat Ruggiero instead remembers dancing it with me, which
can only means one thing: I am getting old and my memory is failing :-(((.
Alas, so many dances, so little time.
Happy dancing. Giovanni (near Los Angeles)

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:26:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990811101952.2037H-100000-AT-
crl.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Eric Arnold wrote:

> Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over
> what I or you _should_ do.  Is this really out of the realm where I should
> think for myself?

Yes, for two reasons:

1) The law is there, and you could get sued if you decide to make your 
own rules.

2) If you decide to make your own rules, you're essentially deciding to 
turn someone else's property into public property, and that's not your 
choice to make. If an artist chooses to make the material freely 
available for use (and most dance-makers do), well and good, and I'm all 
for it, but it's their choice, not yours.

"Never get between a worker and his bread." - Utah Phillips

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:21:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:20:06 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005801bee42e$efebf740$f2f8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908110957390.26996-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.rs.itd.umich.edu>

I agree that some guidelines on use of materials on a more reasonable basis
would be a great idea.  I'm new to English and recently was told that
English has about 500 dances while Scottish has 9000 so maybe the problems
are a bit different.  What puzzles me in the copyright discussion is why
people seem so fearful - worst possible case - even if you were sued and
lost it seems unlikely that a plaintiff would be able to claim or prove much
in the way of damages since there's so little profit in publishing dances
anyway.
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:13 AM
Subject: Completely Carr-ied Away


> I'm somewhat amazed at the pc-type enthusiasm for supporting the exact
> letter of a law (the US copyright law) which was clearly written with not
> one iota of consideration for the subject to which it is being applied.
>
> Copyright law, it seems to me, masquerades as protecting "intellectual
> property" and purportedly protects the small guy from abuses of such
> property.  But, realistically speaking, the only ones that it really
> protects are the ones who can afford to prosecute.
>
> I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians,
> composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are
> better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at
> least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for
> the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music
> for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these
> dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared).  Specific types
> of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and
> distribution, such as any commercial use.  While defining such a boundary
> would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more
> appropriate place than where it presently resides.
>
> Recordings and publications could have explicit statements permitting
> "approved" use which could be broader than currently permitted under
> copyright law.  I feel very strongly that we would not benefit over-all
> from an ASCAP-type setup regulating the use and providing for the
> collection of payments, and the distribution of some fraction of them to
> the publishers of the material.  The only ones who really benefit from
> this are the large operators and the system of leeches who siphon off
> their fraction of the total for their "service."
>
> I feel that for most of us who are involved in the creative processes that
> produce new country dances and music, the primary purpose is to get the
> dances out there to be danced and enjoyed.  Recognition for the work is
> nice but secondary for me, at least; others have to speak for themselves.
> The main protection that we need is blatant misuse of the intellectual
> rights for commercial purposes; I certainly don't feel that the word-of
> mouth copying of dance instructions from another caller at dances violates
> the spirit in which the dance is offered, and I would like to see this
> idea recognized as a legitimate way of distributing the material.
>
> Similarly, I feel that individual copying of instructions and music with
> copiers, either for dancers to learn or for callers to use in this spirit,
> is also in the general interest and a statement allowing such use could be
> included by those who feel similarly.  A general policy appropriate for
> the purposes of using these dance materials most evffectively might be
> drafted, say, by CDSS, or by some representatives of several different
> interested groups; they might establish several different levels of
> permitted use, depending on the creator's wishes, and one could state that
> permission is granted for use at some level, with possible exceptions
> and/or additions to that specification.  Conditions for use might, for
> example, change when a document becomes out-of-print, and again if it is
> reprinted.
>
> Please note that I have no problem at all with the idea of buying the
> published works when they are available.  In fact, I buy practically
> everything I can get my hands on in my area of interest, rather broadly
> defined.  I want this material to be available, and I don't begrudge the
> publishers of this material the right to recover their costs in making it
> available plus an additional amount for the time and effort that they put
> into it.  But I certainly don't expect my dancers to do the same.
>
> It is interesting to note that, in most areas of discussion about dance,
> writers are reluctant to tell others what they _should_ do.  Certainly at
> the level of one dancer helping another, gentle hints are much more
> welcoming and effective than "you should do this"...  Similarly, at the
> level of training other leaders, the best advice seems to be to lead by
> example, but to let people find their own approaches for themselves,
> without "should."  Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over
> what I or you _should_ do.  Is this really out of the realm where I should
> think for myself?
>
> Eric Arnold
>  Ann Arbor
>
>
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:22:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:21:50 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37b1cd4e.4792.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu> wrote:
>            <<snip>>
>
>I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians,
>composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are

>better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at
>least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for
>the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music
>for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these
>dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared).  Specific types
>of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and
>distribution, such as any commercial use.  While defining such a boundary
>would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more

>appropriate place than where it presently resides.
>

Is it considered commercial use for a performing group, such as ones I have
been a member of, to perform a dance and be paid what amounts to gas money for
the performance? Should those performances be subject to paying the creator
of the dance some pittance? I know that many of the Scandinavian dances that
Nordlys does have been learned at workshops and brought home and taught to the
group. The music is a recording of a recording or possibly taken off a video
tape from the workshop (usually less than ideal quality). Are we violating the
copyright of someone that we don't even know by the public performance of this
dance without at least giving credit to the creator? If a singer or musician
performs some published work in a concert while earning their living, do they
pay royalties for every song they sing? Should a composer be paid royalties
every time a band plays one of their tunes at a dance? Who could possibly police
this??

Certainly if one were to compile a collection of dance tunes or dances and put
them into a book with the intent of selling that book, the composer or choreographer
of every item must give permission for such use and each must make the decision
as to what compensation they desire. I think many that I know want their works
out there for the enjoyment of the dance community and would consider that as
long as their efforts are properly credited that would be compensation enough.
I know that Portland Country Dance Community has published a book of tunes for
contra dancing and extreme effort was put forth to find the original source
for every tune and give credit to the composer. In some cases tunes were thought,
by the folk process, to be by a certain person and were found to be written
by somone else. Some tunes thought to be public domain were found not to be.
I don't know what agreements PCDC might have with any of the composers other
than giving them credit in the book. The price of the book is certainly not
making any huge proffits for PCDC and probably doesn't do much more than pay
for the costs involved.

Andy in Portland, Oregon

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:33:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908111416150.26996-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Paul J. Stamler wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Eric Arnold wrote:
> 
> > Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over
> > what I or you _should_ do.  Is this really out of the realm where I should
> > think for myself?
> 
> Yes, for two reasons:
> 
> 1) The law is there, and you could get sued if you decide to make your 
> own rules.

All the more reason that I should think for myself, it seems.  But why are
you assuming that I'm "making my own rules"?  I talked about people
getting together to make their own rules about their own stuff, to suit
their own purposes.
 
> 2) If you decide to make your own rules, you're essentially deciding to 
> turn someone else's property into public property, and that's not your 
> choice to make. If an artist chooses to make the material freely 
> available for use (and most dance-makers do), well and good, and I'm all 
> for it, but it's their choice, not yours.

If I were to "make my own rules," as you put it, it would still depend on
what my rules were.  Without seeing them, you have no basis for saying
that I'm turning someone else's property into public property.  

The concept of "property" which has evolved in this context is not one
which seems to me to have any existence outside of what the public decides
to make it.  Once a person has released ideas to other people in a form
which can be grasped mentally, there's no way thereafter to identify it
exclusively as the property of that person.  There's no intrinsic aspect
that the creator retains except for the thought processes which were not
released.  The public can choose to grant to the originator certain
"rights" to the use of the ideas, but it's an act of public agreement, not
the physical possession of an object, or something that the originator can
retract once it has been exposed to others.  So in fact it is the public,
not the artist or other creator, who ultimately say what is the artist's
property, not the artist him- or herself.  

The release of artistic material for public appreciation, or for whatever
other purpose the artist has, does indeed make it very vulnerable.  But
historically, the concept of copyright and the evolution of the law behind
it developed not to protect ideas so much as financial interests.  I see
very little evidence that the nature of the law has changed in any
appreciable way.  It still deals essentially with situations which have
the potential to make someone Enormously Wealthy, either rightly or
wrongly.  It gives the public a tool to arbitrate such issues on a
more-or-less consistent basis.  But it isn't really about ideas.  It is
about how ideas are related to making money, and in particular, lots of
it.

What I see more and more in the discussion in about how copyright law
relates to issues in English country dance and other related types of
dance, is a tendency to move away from traditional ways of sharing
information to ones that at least appear to be in strict compliance with a
law which is really structured primarily to address other issues.  I am
arguing that this is probably not good for English country dance and the
other related dance forms to do this, because I feel that we lose
collectively more than we gain.  I feel that the purpose of good law is to
serve best those to whom it applies, and therefore that for those of us
who are affected by what the law dictates for the practice of English
country dancing, it is not a good law.  Because I feel it is not a good
law in this context, I do not support it.  But not supporting it does not
mean that I have decided to violate it either more or less flagrantly than
anyone else.  It simply means that I will not give lip service to it, and
that I will argue in favor of changing it when suitable opportunities
present themselves.

I think that the law needs to recognize that certain forms of
entertainment, which might legitimately use the term "folk" to describe
them, depend on the voluntary contribution of creative effort by
choreographers and composers and interpreters in a fashion for which no
strict accountability is expected, either remunerative or in the form of
acknowledgement.  I feel that the ethical requirement remains to
acknowledge sources when they are known, and to make reasonable attempts
to preserve and protect that information, but I feel that is entirely
separate from the issue of copyright.  I also feel that copyright properly
applies to use of this material outside of the context for which it was
voluntarily contributed.

Eric Arnold


> 
> "Never get between a worker and his bread." - Utah Phillips
> 
> Peace.
> Paul
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:54:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:53:43 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007801b3d74c4700c7-AT-
[140.186.62.132]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908110957390.26996-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.rs.itd.umich.edu>

At 2:20 PM -0500 8/11/99, Dianna Shipman wrote:
>I agree that some guidelines on use of materials on a more reasonable basis
>would be a great idea.  I'm new to English and recently was told that
>English has about 500 dances

wow.  Someone misled you on that.

There must be a good 3K english dances around, especially if you start
adding in the ceilidh and "traditional" types.  And they _are_ English, you
know!

Just for my book I had to do a tremendous amount of winnowing to get to
around 500, and those are mostly the ones we do more or less regularly in
Boston.  There are whole collections I haven't even begun to look in.



                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:55:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:08 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007802b3d74cf92a80-AT-
[140.186.62.132]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Really, I think we're all speaking from insufficient knowledge.  There are
people on this list who know exactly how one deals with these questions.

I'm hoping one of them will speak up.

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:55:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:54:50 -0700
From: giovanni de amici <g.deamici-AT-
trw.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37B1FF3A.82A75801-AT-
trw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908110957390.26996-100000-AT-
moonpatrol.rs.itd.umich.edu> <005801bee42e$efebf740$f2f8490c-AT-
pavilion>

Good point about the amount of damage that could ever be claimed by a plaintiff,
but we should keep in mind that just 'defending' a lawsuit can be awfully
expensive.

I would be more careful about comparing ECD with SCD; without putting too much
effort in it, I have collected and archived some 1000 different dances, which
leads me to believe that there are several (and possibly many) times as many
english dances out there.
Giovanni De Amici

Dianna Shipman wrote:

> ....  I'm new to English and recently was told that
> English has about 500 dances while Scottish has 9000 so maybe the problems
> are a bit different.  What puzzles me in the copyright discussion is why
> people seem so fearful - worst possible case - even if you were sued and
> lost it seems unlikely that a plaintiff would be able to claim or prove much
> in the way of damages since there's so little profit in publishing dances
> anyway.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:55:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 07:46:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990812074121.19376A-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

> If a singer or musician
> performs some published work in a concert while earning their living, do they
> pay royalties for every song they sing?

The singer or player doesn't pay; the venue does. In practice, the venue 
pays a flat fee to ASCAP and BMI for the use of material registered with 
them; ASCAP and BMI then divvy up the fees among their members according 
to a complex and (usually) unfair formula. If the venue actually keeps a 
log of material performed (some do; with computers, this isn't as hard as 
it used to be), then the royalties get to the right composers directly 
rather than via formula. The same system applies to radio stations; the 
more conscientious ones report actual playlists, so that the royalties go 
to the people whose music is actually played. As I said, with computers, 
it's not that difficult.

> Certainly if one were to compile a collection of dance tunes or dances and put
> them into a book with the intent of selling that book, the composer or choreographer
> of every item must give permission for such use and each must make the decision
> as to what compensation they desire. I think many that I know want their works
> out there for the enjoyment of the dance community and would consider that as
> long as their efforts are properly credited that would be compensation enough.

Of course -- but it's the musician's decision to make.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:25:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:19:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990812080812.19376B-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Lots of discussion on the issue, but I'll just make a couple of points:

(1) Certainly there's usually very little money involved in this sort of 
thing, and so actual damages would be tiny. Punitive damages, however, 
are another story.

(2) There are exceptions to the "very little money" scenario. The lovely,
if overplayed, waltz "Ashokan Farewell" stands out as an example. It
earned lots and lots of money, first in residuals from the "Civil War" TV
series (there are residuals every time the tape is rented), then in record
sales. If the intellectual property laws weren't there, or if they somehow
didn't apply to material in the "folk" world, that money would have
remained with the record companies and TV production company rather than
going to the composer, Jay Ungar. A related case is the guitar arrangement
for "Scarborough Fair" that Martin Carthy created, which Paul Simon nicked
and made large quantities of money from, both in record sales and movie 
residuals ("The Graduate"). Eventually a court forced Simon and his 
publishers to acknowledge Carthy's work (recent copies of the recording 
are supposed to read "Trad., arr. Carthy"), but as I understand it, Simon 
still gets the royalties. The intellectual property laws are there 
because abuses like this happen, and they aren't all penny-ante.

(3) Finally, anyone, anywhere, who wants to grant unlimited reproduction 
rights for any tune or dance they have written is completely free to do 
so, without need for changing the laws. One can also grant partial rights 
-- for example, one can grant the right to perform a tune without 
royalties, while reserving the normal rights concerning recordings.

Peace.
Paul

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:35:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:25:46 -0400
From: sheilab-AT-
tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Royalties Carr-ied away....
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0153050bb3d89581bbf0-AT-
[206.119.47.18]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
>
>> If a singer or musician
>> performs some published work in a concert while earning their living, do they
>> pay royalties for every song they sing?

Paul Stamler replied:
>The singer or player doesn't pay; the venue does. In practice, the venue
>pays a flat fee to ASCAP and BMI for the use of material registered with
>them; ASCAP and BMI then divvy up the fees among their members according
>to a complex and (usually) unfair formula.

As Recitals Administrator at King's Chapel (Boston) I am required to do this.
We pay $7/week for this "privilege".  We have to pay it EVEN IF there are no
ASCAP composers on our program, even if the composers are the performers,
and even if the composers are performers giving premieres of their works.

We present recitals of a wide variety of repertoire (not just music by dead
white men) throughout the year...  so we pay for 52 recitals.  I must say as
an early musician I'm puzzled as to how ASCAP pays royalties to Anonymous,
or to the Tang Dynasty composer whose works will be played on September
28.....

Fiddler Laura Risk recently played in our series (with the wonderful Susie
Petrov), and we'll be featuring some traditional down-home music at
FiddleFest 3 on August 24.  No ECD dance bands, alas....


Sheila Beardslee Bosworth        sheilab-AT-
tiac.net
Editor, Boston Early Music News   Deadline  Aug 25 for Sept 15  issue
    FALL PREVIEW ISSUE includes Events Sept. 15-Dec. 31
    WEB Calendar  http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/
Pavane  website http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~nhmuse/Pavane

29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505
VOX  978/263.9926      FAX  978/263.2366




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:50:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance on a Maine Island!
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <86a1de8a.24e8e440-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Special summer dance Saturday August 21 8 pm - midnight at the Historical 
Society Hall in Isleboro, Maine. $8. Private pedestrian ferry returning to 
mainland after dance. Caller: Bruce Hamilton. Music played by Jonathan 
Jensen, Marty Taylor & Susie Lorand. Preceded by lobster & clam bake, $16.50 
by advance payment to Charles Ferguson PO box 160, Isleboro ME 04848. Further 
info: Jamie MacMillan 207 734-8140 (Don't respond to me, Judy, I'm only the 
messenger. However it sounds like a fabulous event!)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 02:38:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 02:37:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JETI26W3YQA9ML3Y-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks --

I'm looking for a spot of input on a one-day event that the Bay Area English
Regency Society will be presenting this October -- a survey of the spread of
ECD and other European dances within Latin America through to about 1830. (We
chose that cutoff date because it's the  end of George IV, the Ruler Formerly
Known as Prince Regent. We'll still allude to dance history  after that date,
but we'll keep the focus within our group's nominal period of study.)

We've structured the event this way: There'll be an overview session in the
early afternoon, in which we'll talk about how European dances came to Latin
America and how they developed with indigenous and African influences once they
arrived; we'll provide handouts including a historical timeline, a general
bibliography, and perhaps a map.

For the rest of the afternoon we've rounded up instructors who can teach short
workshops on historical dances of several countries,  specifically Argentina
(the gato, I think), Brazil (the quadrilha), and Cuba (the contradanza, I
believe).  We chose these countries and dances more because we tracked down
teachers in the Bay Area, not because we valued one dance form or country over
another.  

And then finally, we'll have one of our group's regular balls in the evening,
with the theme of "a fancy-dress ball at an aristocratic home in the
Caribbean," where we'll dance the usual English country dances and waltzes, and
perhaps a demonstration set from one of the afternoon workshops if enough
people turn up who attend both in the afternoon and evening.  Our redoubtable
list master Alan Winston will be calling that night.

Whew, what a day! :)  So...that's what we're trying to accomplish. Obviously it
won't be a comprehensive review of the topic. It's just our initial foray.

The reason I mention this on the ECD list is that I'm continuing to look for
relevant reference materials, recordings, and other appropriate information for
that opening session, especially materials in English. Does anyone out there
have pointers to such information?  It's not required that the information be
in English -- my chief partner-in-crime for this event reads some Spanish and
Portuguese, and even non-English materials would improve the bibliography --
but it would certainly be useful in preparing the historical overview. We've
been talking with the very helpful Latin-American dance scholar Susan Cashion
at Stanford, but we'd love to talk with dance scholars in other locales. Best
of all would be someone who can read Spanish and Portuguese dance instructions.

Any and all help appreciated!

Thanks,

Vanessa Schnatmeier

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 03:49:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:45:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Anthony Stone <ajs1-AT-
cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Copyright (Completely Carr-ied Away)
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <14263.60333.462852.95531-AT-
fandango.ch.cam.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On the question of copyright and reasonable use, it may be worth
thinking about the example of the Gnu `copyleft' devised by the Free
Software Foundation and widely used for free software. Broadly
speaking, this provides that software may be freely distributed and
used by anyone, provided that any distributed copies are in exactly
the form in which they were received, including the copyleft notice,
and that no commercial use may be made of the software and no charge
may be made for copies (except possibly a nominal charge for media).
There is no objection to anyone modifying software for their own
purposes, but it is not permitted to distribute the modified software
unless it is made abundantly clear that it is different from the
original.

This is a much abbreviated and possibly inaccurate summary, but I can
dig out a fuller version if people are interested.

It is entirely up to the author of the software to decide whether he
or she wishes to distribute their material in this way.

In the case of dance notation, such a procedure would mean that
authors of dances could put their dances on the web, and anyone could
take copies and pass them on to others, but they would be required by
the terms of the agreement to ensure that any copies are accurate and
contain the attribution to the original author. Anyone who wished to
modify the dance for whatever reason would be obliged to make it clear 
that they had done so. Commercial use wouldn't be an issue, given that 
nobody makes a profit out of dance notation.

Let me emphasize once again that it would be for the original author
of the dance to decide whether or not to publish his or her dances in
this way. This means that it would not be possible to apply this
approach to dances already published unless the copyright-holder
agreed.

-- 
Anthony Stone				http://fandango.ch.cam.ac.uk/
University Chemical Laboratory,         Email:   ajs1-AT-
cam.ac.uk
Lensfield Road,                         Phone:  +44 1223 336375
Cambridge CB2 1EW                       Fax:    +44 1223 336362
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:42:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:39:34 -0400
From: "Gary M. Roodman" <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Belshazzar's Feast in Binghamton, NY, Saturday, September 11
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990816103934.02036940-AT-
mailbox.cc.binghamton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

				
	IT'S TRUE!

	John Turner and Belshazzar's Feast from England will be doing two dance
events in Binghamton on Saturday, September 11.  Here are some specifics:

  2:00pm -  5:00pm	  English Country Dance Workshop	  Cost = $10.00

  7:00pm - 10:00pm	  New-England-Style Contra Dance	  Cost =  $7.00

									        OR Attend both events
										      for just $15

LOCATION:   		Binghamton High School Gymnasium
				Corner of Main and Oak Sts.
				(31 Main St. OR 98 Oak St.)
				Binghamton, NY

MORE INFORMATION:	Call Gary Roodman, 607-771-0593
		     or   Write to roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu

					EXCELLENT FUN!
Gary M. Roodman        Binghamton University       Binghamton, NY
OFFICE: 607-777-2673   HOME: 607-771-0593          FAX: 607-777-4422
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:03:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:10:55 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002b01bee7f8$ca06c6e0$36e8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JETI26W3YQA9ML3Y-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

This sounds like a fascinating event - any chance you'll be selling the
programs, handouts, etc. to those who can't attend?
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: <MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 4:37 AM
Subject: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America


> Folks --
>
> I'm looking for a spot of input on a one-day event that the Bay Area
English
> Regency Society will be presenting this October -- a survey of the spread
of
> ECD and other European dances within Latin America through to about 1830.
(We
> chose that cutoff date because it's the  end of George IV, the Ruler
Formerly
> Known as Prince Regent. We'll still allude to dance history  after that
date,
> but we'll keep the focus within our group's nominal period of study.)
>
> We've structured the event this way: There'll be an overview session in
the
> early afternoon, in which we'll talk about how European dances came to
Latin
> America and how they developed with indigenous and African influences once
they
> arrived; we'll provide handouts including a historical timeline, a general
> bibliography, and perhaps a map.
>
> For the rest of the afternoon we've rounded up instructors who can teach
short
> workshops on historical dances of several countries,  specifically
Argentina
> (the gato, I think), Brazil (the quadrilha), and Cuba (the contradanza, I
> believe).  We chose these countries and dances more because we tracked
down
> teachers in the Bay Area, not because we valued one dance form or country
over
> another.
>
> And then finally, we'll have one of our group's regular balls in the
evening,
> with the theme of "a fancy-dress ball at an aristocratic home in the
> Caribbean," where we'll dance the usual English country dances and
waltzes, and
> perhaps a demonstration set from one of the afternoon workshops if enough
> people turn up who attend both in the afternoon and evening.  Our
redoubtable
> list master Alan Winston will be calling that night.
>
> Whew, what a day! :)  So...that's what we're trying to accomplish.
Obviously it
> won't be a comprehensive review of the topic. It's just our initial foray.
>
> The reason I mention this on the ECD list is that I'm continuing to look
for
> relevant reference materials, recordings, and other appropriate
information for
> that opening session, especially materials in English. Does anyone out
there
> have pointers to such information?  It's not required that the information
be
> in English -- my chief partner-in-crime for this event reads some Spanish
and
> Portuguese, and even non-English materials would improve the
bibliography --
> but it would certainly be useful in preparing the historical overview.
We've
> been talking with the very helpful Latin-American dance scholar Susan
Cashion
> at Stanford, but we'd love to talk with dance scholars in other locales.
Best
> of all would be someone who can read Spanish and Portuguese dance
instructions.
>
> Any and all help appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vanessa Schnatmeier
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:19:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:18:49 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37B82BD9.B127D11-AT-
home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JETI26W3YQA9ML3Y-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

Vanessa Schnatmeier writes:

>>The reason I mention this on the ECD list is that I'm continuing to look for
relevant reference materials, recordings, and other appropriate
information for
that opening session, especially materials in English. Does anyone out
there
have pointers to such information? <<

Vanessa,

I have an article from Noticias - the Ansz Trail Newsletter, September
1996 - that I
would be happy to fax or mail to you. It describes music and dance
enjoyed on the
Anza expeditions in California in the late 18th century. The article
comments on the Joseph Maria
Garcia Manuscript from the Eleanor Hague Collection. It belonged to
Senor Garcia of Chalco,
Mexico in 1772. "Its 298 anonymous line melodies, 72 of which include
suggested dance steps, 
were found in a Mexican village store in 1954 by musicologist Eleanor
Hague." She donated
the manuscript to the Braun Research Library at the Southwest Museum in
Los Angeles. John
Warren of Paso Robles transcribed and harmonized many of the dances for
The New World Baroque Orchestra.

The articles suggests that information, and availability about cds or
videotapes of performances,
can be had by writing to John Warren, PO Box 2121, Paso Robles, CA
93447. It seems the group planned
to issue a CD in 1996.

Your workshop sounds ambitious and exciting. I hope more information
will appear on the list.
Please let me know privately if you would like me to send you a copy of
the article.

Marjorie McLaughlin
San Diego, CA
marjoriem-AT-
home.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:28:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:28:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.10.9908161109220.90834-100000-AT-
okapi.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU wrote:

> For the rest of the afternoon we've rounded up instructors who can teach short
> workshops on historical dances of several countries,  specifically Argentina
> (the gato, I think), Brazil (the quadrilha), and Cuba (the contradanza, I
> believe).  We chose these countries and dances more because we tracked down
> teachers in the Bay Area, not because we valued one dance form or country over
> another.  

I don't think you should ignore Mexico.  True, many of the dance form
don't relate to the logwways form, but some do.  And you need to get
someone who knows the dance heritage of all the various states in
Mexico before you can start eliminating some of them.  

If you don't have Mexican dance in your  program, it will seem indomplete
and amateurish to knowledgable dancers.  (I don't mean this as a threat,
but as a warning.) 

happy organizing!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:20:16 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:52:57 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <monson-AT-
talk21.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000001bee837$77064ee0$d5988cd4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


As a new member, just returned from a weeks dancing at Morland, I have
just found all this discussion on the copyright of dances.

Could anyone explain to me, after a dance has been published:
1)    is it the "movement of the actual dancers" that is copyrighted, or
2)    is it the "original notation" that has been written down and
published, and
3)    what defines "publishing"?  Is a simple hand-written copy by the
author of the dance "publishing".

Following on from the above, if a dance described by the author in the
notation is to be danced to, say, a reel, and somebody dances it to a
waltz, is this in fact the same dance?  Would this infringe copyright?
Is publishing the same dance movements to a different tune the same
dance?

If a dance is altered, and a couple of figures interchanged, is this the
same dance and will this infringe copyright if later re-published in
this changed form?
If the dance is re-written using different words to describe the same
dance movement ( people often write down dances in their own words after
dancing them, or watching from the side-lines) has any copyright been
infringed by writing this, or by calling this dance at a later occasion?
(This often seems to happen at dances, and it is often difficult to find
the origin of a dance when the caller never tells you where it is from).

A friend of mine whose hobby is collecting dances has now collected and
written in her own words the notation/callers cards to about 3500
English Dances, and knows there are hundreds more that she has not yet
seen danced.

And one step further, should royalties be paid to the composer of the
music and/or the dance (or fees be collected by other organisations for
the playing of music e.g.  PRS etc.?)
If you buy a book and CD/tape of dances, surely these tunes and
dances have been produced  for dancing to - not just  for leaving in
your bookcase or listening to on your own - this is why they are
produced and sold together, I would have thought, for dancing to.
If you buy a saucepan (for cooking in) should you be expected to pay
an extra fee to the manufacturer every time you boil an egg or warm up
some soup?

My brain hurts - lets carry on dancing! Roll on Whitby!

Trevor Monson








================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:20:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:30:15 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <monson-AT-
talk21.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000101bee837$78346ea0$d5988cd4-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

With reference to dance instructions being sent out before a dance - is
this really necessary?

In my experience of English Dances, every dance is always walked through
before being danced and so if the dance is not known to you, you soon
learn it, and if you already know the dance, it still acts as a
reminder.  If the dance is too difficult to learn with a walk through -
especially when at a ball, then the dance is most likely too difficult,
and should be saved for a workshop.

But Scottish Country Dancing seems to have three main trains of thought.
In England:
1)    Some groups just list the names of the dances that will be danced.
(People who don't know the dances then tend to use "Scottish Country
Dances in Diagrams" by F.L.Pilling or some form of Crib card)
2)    Some groups are now walking the dances once through before dancing
them, even though Scottish dancers used to pride themselves that they
never need to do this.
3)    Some groups issue "Crib Sheets" of the dances on the programme and
issue these either beforehand or at the door, and again, the dances are
not walked through.

One form of CardCrib widely used in England, and are also supplied to
Canada, Australia, Japan and dancing holidays abroad are supplied by
Paul Bond.  He always obtains permission to publish the cribs, and only
publishes dances by permission.  The crib takes the form of:

1s & 2s set, RH ac halfway; repeat back LH.  1s lead down middle & up.
1s & 2s allemande.  2s 1s & 3s circle round & back.

These cards can be bought in packs and the relevant cards then selected
for the ball (The cards easily fit in a sporran!). Also, organisers can
send him a list of the dances they want to do, and he provides an M.C's
copy with all the relevant timings for the evening  (easily done as time
is not used walking dances or making up sets) and a copy of the relevant
cribs on an A4 sheet, for distribution to all attending.

The only time I have ever seen anything approaching the above, at an
English dance, is at Nic Broadbridges Balls in Edinburgh ( - well, it's
an English dance in Scotland!).  He will send a listing of all the
dances, together with a "Practice Tape" for people to learn the dances
before attending.

However, and this is purely personal, lots of my enjoyment at a dance is
dancing a new dance that I have never danced before.  If you practice
them beforehand you lose that spontaneity of finding a new dance -
especially if you enjoy that dance.

Trevor Monson




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:52:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: MEIER-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JEV8QJKZK2A9NFCD-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks --

Thanks for your help! I'll respond digest-style (appropriately enough for a
list digest).

Dianna: 

Hmn, I hadn't thought about selling handouts, but I expect we can arrange
something where you pay costs and postage. We're negotiating with the
instructors about sales and display space now; dunno whether they have extra
material beyond what they'll teach in the workshops. Anyway, I'll email you off
list.


Marjorie:  

Oh boy! Yes, the Noticias article sounds lovely, and I'll email you directly.
Thank you very much for the tip. I'll talk more about the event here as time
goes on.


Priscilla:  

We don't plan to ignore Mexico -- it'll play a major role in the historical
discussion. We just couldn't connect in time with a teacher who knew the early
dances, and the workshop slots had to be filled. I'm sure that as soon as the
event publicity goes out someone will appear; that's how Murphy's Law works.
(I'm still surprised that, in this area, we couldn't find someone.) I hope
those knowledgeable dancers will come to the historical overview session and
hear about Mexico's role in the evolution of early Latin American dance. What
you say will definitely help me target the publicity for folks outside our
regular group, though.

One of the interesting things we've discovered in the course of this project is
that, to our knowledge, there apparently isn't as much cross-fertilization
within local Latin American folk dance instruction as there is in the local
Anglo folk community.  I'll be curious to see how many attendees will come from
particular Latin dance backgrounds.


Thanks for your thoughts, everyone, and if anything more comes up feel free to
mention it on the list or email me directly.


Vanessa Schnatmeier





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:52:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:57:06 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00bf01bee8f2$520a77e0$4ae8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <000101bee837$78346ea0$d5988cd4-AT-
trevormo>

Trevor - Do you have info on how to contact Paul Bond?

Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Trevor Monson <monson-AT-
talk21.com>
To: <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away


> With reference to dance instructions being sent out before a dance - is
> this really necessary?
> 
> In my experience of English Dances, every dance is always walked through
> before being danced and so if the dance is not known to you, you soon
> learn it, and if you already know the dance, it still acts as a
> reminder.  If the dance is too difficult to learn with a walk through -
> especially when at a ball, then the dance is most likely too difficult,
> and should be saved for a workshop.
> 
> But Scottish Country Dancing seems to have three main trains of thought.
> In England:
> 1)    Some groups just list the names of the dances that will be danced.
> (People who don't know the dances then tend to use "Scottish Country
> Dances in Diagrams" by F.L.Pilling or some form of Crib card)
> 2)    Some groups are now walking the dances once through before dancing
> them, even though Scottish dancers used to pride themselves that they
> never need to do this.
> 3)    Some groups issue "Crib Sheets" of the dances on the programme and
> issue these either beforehand or at the door, and again, the dances are
> not walked through.
> 
> One form of CardCrib widely used in England, and are also supplied to
> Canada, Australia, Japan and dancing holidays abroad are supplied by
> Paul Bond.  He always obtains permission to publish the cribs, and only
> publishes dances by permission.  The crib takes the form of:
> 
> 1s & 2s set, RH ac halfway; repeat back LH.  1s lead down middle & up.
> 1s & 2s allemande.  2s 1s & 3s circle round & back.
> 
> These cards can be bought in packs and the relevant cards then selected
> for the ball (The cards easily fit in a sporran!). Also, organisers can
> send him a list of the dances they want to do, and he provides an M.C's
> copy with all the relevant timings for the evening  (easily done as time
> is not used walking dances or making up sets) and a copy of the relevant
> cribs on an A4 sheet, for distribution to all attending.
> 
> The only time I have ever seen anything approaching the above, at an
> English dance, is at Nic Broadbridges Balls in Edinburgh ( - well, it's
> an English dance in Scotland!).  He will send a listing of all the
> dances, together with a "Practice Tape" for people to learn the dances
> before attending.
> 
> However, and this is purely personal, lots of my enjoyment at a dance is
> dancing a new dance that I have never danced before.  If you practice
> them beforehand you lose that spontaneity of finding a new dance -
> especially if you enjoy that dance.
> 
> Trevor Monson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:02:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:04:05 +0100
From: Trevor Monson <monson-AT-
talk21.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away - CardCribs
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <002001bee905$0f7cd4a0$0659ac3e-AT-
trevormo>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

With reference to Paul Bonds "CardCribs", at present I have not
contacted him about putting his address on the ECD mailing list, so I
will contact him about this as soon as possible.
If anyone wants to contact him in the meantime, please Email direct to
me and I will forward his address to you individually.  Thanks.

Trevor Monson.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:29:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:28:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NOMAD program booklet
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990818002842.6130.rocketmail-AT-
web4.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


And speaking of NOMAD (Nov. 5-7, Newtown, CT), interested parties
should know that we are now accepting advertisements for the program
booklet.  As has been mentioned previously by an unpaid inside
agitator, NOMAD is an extremely ECD-friendly festival, with
approximately 2000 attendees (including dancers, musicians, callers,
hopeful callers etc) and a wide reach along New England and the
Eastern seaboard, making it a terrific way to reach English
enthusiasts and other music and dance types who aren't necessarily
on this list, say for information about your books of dances Gary, or 
that just released Boston-Center Bare Neccessities CD Gene, Terry or
Dan (do I recall hearing that the second one is schedule to be out
in October - hmmm just in time for those forward thinking folks who
do their holiday shopping in advance), or for an organization's
upcoming dance event, while helping to support a great music/dance
event.  If you produce a good or service that would be of interest
to the music/dance community and would be interested in placing an
ad in the NOMAD program book, please contact me directly, off-list
and I will email you our rates and form, or snail it if you can't
get clean attachments.  But act soon - in 10 days I head off for
dance euphoria.  Deadline for receipt of the ad copy is Sept. 30.


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:34:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:33:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Islesboro Dance Addendum
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <f2a4fa05.24ec1012-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

An alert reader (thanks, Michael) has informed me that he heard the last 
ferry going over leaves at 5:00. I checked & this is true. Ferry leaves from 
Lincolnville Beach which is 6 miles north of Camden. Purchase a one-way 
ticket (you'll be returning via a special ferry after the dance, remember?) & 
leave car in the lot ($4). As there are no restaurants on the island, you 
must bring a picnic or (see previous message) you may purchase a ticket for 
the lobsterbake in advance. Information: Jamie MacMillan 207 734-8140. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:28:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:26:08 -0400
From: Harold Cheyney <hcheyney-AT-
postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: SET NOMAIL
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908181428.KAA01724-AT-
mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

SET NOMAIL
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:06:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:05:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [Fwd from Roger Broseus] Schedule Conflicts for DC Spring Ball?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JEWSGW9WOAA9KZOR-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

[Forwarded for Roger Broseus]

Dear ECDancers,

Planning is afoot for the Y2K Washington Spring Ball.  A likely date is May 20,
2000.

If you are aware of any potential conflicts with other events, please let us
know.

This year's participants came from the mid-Atlantic and New England areas so
that's the area of primary interest.

Cheers, 

-- Roger
_  _  ________________ _  ____________________________________________
 /__) _,___,  _   _   /_)  Contra dancing fanatic, English country
/ \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado.  Email: Roger-AT-
just.net
         _/_               www.just.net/~roger/dance_niche.html
_______ (/____________________________________________________________



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:43:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Belshazzar's Feast in Binghamton, NY, Saturday, September 11
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990818234243.81641.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Gary,

By any chance, did you send me directions? Someone sent me 6K of data 
unannounced, and crashed my system the day after I requested the info from 
you.

Margherita

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Gary M. Roodman" <roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Belshazzar's Feast in Binghamton, NY, Saturday, September 11
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:39:34 -0400


	IT'S TRUE!

	John Turner and Belshazzar's Feast from England will be doing two dance
events in Binghamton on Saturday, September 11.  Here are some specifics:

   2:00pm -  5:00pm	  English Country Dance Workshop	  Cost = $10.00

   7:00pm - 10:00pm	  New-England-Style Contra Dance	  Cost =  $7.00

									        OR Attend both events
										      for just $15

LOCATION:   		Binghamton High School Gymnasium
				Corner of Main and Oak Sts.
				(31 Main St. OR 98 Oak St.)
				Binghamton, NY

MORE INFORMATION:	Call Gary Roodman, 607-771-0593
		     or   Write to roodman-AT-
binghamton.edu

					EXCELLENT FUN!
Gary M. Roodman        Binghamton University       Binghamton, NY
OFFICE: 607-777-2673   HOME: 607-771-0593          FAX: 607-777-4422


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:44:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:43:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Oops!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990818234346.26431.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sorry for the note that should have gone directly to Gary.

Margherita


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:05:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:05:42 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on ECD in Latin America
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908230100.VAA24951-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

<bigger>Vanessa,<italic><color><param>0100,0100,0100</param><smaller>


</italic>It's outside your time period, but you can find a decent amount of dance 
references from their stop in Monterey in Richard Dana's _Two Years 
Before the Mast_ (1840).  In particular, try chapters XVIII and XXVII.


An interesting paragraph on dance in New Mexico is in Josiah Gregg's 
_Commerce of the Prairies_ (1844); Volume One, Chapter XII.  Back 
to California, you might check out _Luzena Stanley Wilson '49er, Her 
Memoirs as Taken Down by her Daughter in 1881_; Chapters Nine 
and Ten [depicting life in 1849].  


Good luck with your project and if you can share any of the info you put 
together, please do.


Rich Galloway

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	A Mexican female is scarcely ever seen without her rebozo or 

	shawl, except when it is laid aside for the dance.  

		--</color>Josiah Gregg; _<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>Commerce of the Prairies_; Volume One,

		Chapter XI, Style of Dress in New Mexico<bigger>

<nofill>
====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:24:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:21:58 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: AADS Autum Dance Weekend
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
CC: "Blancke, Luc & Van Vlaenderen, Frieda" <aads-AT-
village.uunet.be>
Message-ID: <37C15906.B3599C72-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Herewith you are all invited to come and attend the

AADS AUTUMN DANCE WEEKEND
ENGLISH & AMERICAN COUNTRY DANCES

Malle, Belgium

November 26-28, 1999

with:
Susan Kevra (USA)
Philippe Callens (B)
Little Tinkers (NL)

The AADS autumn dance weekend will take place at the Provinciaal
Vormingscentrum, Malle, Belgium (about 30 minutes away from Antwerp) and
its programme will feature an interesting variety of English country
dances and American squares and contras.

From America we welcome Susan Kevra who lives in Brattleboro, Vermont.
She comes from a newer generation of callers and calls a varied
programme of square and contra dances. She also plays clarinet. Susan
has appeared at Pinewoods and other dance weeks.

The Belgian caller Philippe Callens will teach English country dancing.
During his workshops he will give a survey of contemporary dances,
including several of his own recently published in his book Continental
Capers.

The Dutch band The Little Tinkers (Janneke Donkersloot, fiddle; Det
Custers, accordion; Mik Lammers, piano) will provide live music all
weekend long.

So amateurs for lyrical Playford dances or for exciting squares and
contras will find something to their taste.

Baby sitting will be available so parents can join the dancing.

Venue
Provinciaal Vormingscentrum (PVC)
Smekenstraat 61
B-2390 Malle, BELGIUM
Rooms for 1, 2 (limited), 3 (limited) and 6 are available. Each rooms
has one or more washbasins; showers and toilets are nearby.

When
From Friday evening 26 November 1999 (7 p.m.) till Sunday afternoon 28
November 1999 (4 p.m.)

Price: BEF 3350 (adults) - BEF 1850 (children -13).
This includes tuition, room, five meals, and coffee/tea during the
breaks.
Supplement for vegetarian meals: BEF 150

How to apply
You can apply by e-mail: aads-AT-
village.uunet.be. If you are not living in
Belgium, the Netherlands, the USA, or Germany, you can pay on arrival.
All others should you use one of the AADS accounts.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 02:59:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:57:27 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <37C26C87.266F1DFC-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Since nobody has objected to put this dance on the list, here's the
notation for The Hare's Maggot (Dancing Master, 11th edition, 1701) as
interpreted by Pat Shaw:

(The music is in 3/2)

A1
1-6    First corners, passing each other by the left, move clockwise
around their same sex neighbour, meet and then two-hand turn once
around.

A2
1-6    Second corners, passing each other by the right, move
counter-clockwise around their same sex neighbour, meet and then
two-hand turn once around (preferably counter-clockwise).

B1
1-2    Neighbours face and clap (together, together, right, together,
together, left)
3-4    Ones cast, twos lead up.
5-8    Same four, square hey with hands, partner start right.

B2
1-8    Ones figure eight down through the next twos, then two-hand turn
partner.

For more info and detail, consult English Dance and Song (1959 volume)
and Charles's Choice.


Philippe Callens
who likes this dance a lot and doesn't care at all for Up with Aily to
this tune

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:32:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:35:23 -0500
From: Loretta Holz <loretta-AT-
varisys.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: NJ/NY- Aug 30 Mostly ECD in Maplewood, NJ
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <006101beee3d$e9116680$176cd626-AT-
lmh.varisys.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

If you are available on Monday evening August 30 please join us as

Maplewood International Folk Dancers Present…
A Mostly English Country Dance Evening
With Live Music – Robin Russell on Piano and Norma Castle on flue
Calling by Loretta Holz
When: August 30, 1999 from 7:30 – 10:00 PM
Where: Air-conditioned, wooden floor at De Hart Park Community Center, 120
Burnett Ave, Maplewood, NJ

Welcome to all folkdancers and English Country dancers, couples and singles
During intermissions, taped international dances will be played for everyone who
wishes to dance.
Admission $4 per person - First Timers receive free admission coupon for second
visit to group

Directions:
Route 78 East - stay in local lanes to Exit 49B (Maplewood, Rte 124 East) As you
exit from ramp, you'll be on Springfield Ave which is Rt 124.  Continue east on
Springfield (2 miles) to Burnett Ave (Shell Station on the Right corner) Right
turn onto Burnett Ave and proceed .3 miles to DeHart Park Community Center.
OR
From North or South- via Garden State Parkway: Exit 143 Irvington Center-
proceed West on Springfield Ave toward Maplewood about 2 miles to Burnett Ave
(Shell Station on left corner);  Turn onto Burnett Ave and proceed .3 miles to
Dehart Center.

Hope to see you there.

Loretta Holz                              loretta-AT-
varisys.com



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:38:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:37:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  The Hair's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e43fef47.24f46a83-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Well done, Philippe! I loved his unequivocal signing off tag 
    " ... who likes this dance a lot, and doesn't care at all for Up with 
Aily to this tune". 
    Hear, hear, say I. The use of this tune for Up with Aily makes footling 
nonsense of the first wonderful bar - three great strong notes - very 
powerful: and what do you do to this majestic start if you use the tune for 
Up with Aily? - shuffle into a line of three!!
    Watch out next year for the Assembly Players' CD "Pat Shaw's Playford", 
which will contain the proper tunes for each of these two dances.
                                                    Nicolas B., Lanark, 
Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:46:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:45:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: MartinezPC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hair's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e83a068e.24f48881-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In a message dated 8/24/99 5:39:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
SallenNic-AT-
aol.com writes:

 '"The use of this tune for Up with Aily makes footling 
 nonsense of the first wonderful bar - three great strong notes - very 
 powerful: and what do you do to this majestic start if you use the tune for 
 Up with Aily? - shuffle into a line of three!!"

Hmmmm......you *could* stride energetically and elegantly into that line of 
three.... It's true, I admit, that there's a tendency to shuffle or sidle 
into line, but I'm convinced it's not inevitable, and I particularly enjoy 
moving forward toward my partner or neighbor on those three strong notes and 
turning into line at the last moment.

I do look forward to trying The Hare's Maggot, as interpreted by Pat Shaw; 
thanks, Philippe, for posting it.
    
Carol Martinez
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:52:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:21:15 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: maggot
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <00b201beeec6$4b699ae0$4df7490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_lnozdQQOb7fSUoYkaDmqTQ)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_lnozdQQOb7fSUoYkaDmqTQ)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

I've noticed several dances refer to "maggot" which of course has some unfortunate connotations - what does it mean in an English country dance context?
Dianna
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212

--Boundary_(ID_lnozdQQOb7fSUoYkaDmqTQ)
Content-type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I've noticed several dances refer to "maggot" which of course 
has some unfortunate connotations - what does it mean in an English country 
dance context?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5>Dianna</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Dianna L. Shipman<BR><A 
href="mailto:diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net">diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net</A><BR>Dianna 
L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law<BR>1436 W.Gray, #134<BR>Houston, TX 
77019-4946<BR>web page: <A 
href="http://home.att.net/~diannashipman">http://home.att.net/~diannashipman</A><BR>phone: 
713-522-1212</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_lnozdQQOb7fSUoYkaDmqTQ)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:57:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:02:13 -0700
From: timelord01-AT-
sprynet.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908250757.DAA17523-AT-
smtp5.mindspring.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dianna,

Often it refers to a whimsey, a conceit (idea), or (pleasant) diversion 

Thanx, Ric

On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I've noticed several dances refer to "maggot" which of course has some unfortunate connotations - what does it mean in an English country dance context?
>Dianna
>Dianna L. Shipman
>diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
>Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
>1436 W.Gray, #134
>Houston, TX 77019-4946
>web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
>phone: 713-522-1212
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML><HEAD>
><META content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv=Content-Type>
><META content="MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=GENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
><DIV><FONT size=4>I've noticed several dances refer to "maggot" which of course 
>has some unfortunate connotations - what does it mean in an English country 
>dance context?</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=5>Dianna</FONT></DIV>
><DIV><FONT size=4>Dianna L. Shipman<BR><A 
>href="mailto:diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net">diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net</A><BR>Dianna 
>L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law<BR>1436 W.Gray, #134<BR>Houston, TX 
>77019-4946<BR>web page: <A 
>href="http://home.att.net/~diannashipman">http://home.att.net/~diannashipman</A><BR>phone: 
>713-522-1212</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:42:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:41:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908250932260.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Philippe,

Regarding Pat Shaw's interpretation of "The Hare's Maggot, it's difficult
to imagine the flow in the A part as the tune runs through my head:

> A1
> 1-6    First corners, passing each other by the left, move clockwise
> around their same sex neighbour, meet and then two-hand turn once
> around.

How do you interpret "meet"?  Does that imply a punctuation point, i.e.
an interruption of the flow for an acknowledgement of some kind, or a
forward-&-back movement before the turn, or is it simply a coming together
and proceeding to turn without any interruption of the flow?  Where does
"meet" occur most naturally?  It seems to me that it would fit with the
music best on the third measure, but that might rush the opening phrase a
bit -- so how do you teach it?

Thanks for posting this -- it will be fun to try it!

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:43:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:40:42 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37C40069.B0AF4225-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908250932260.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>

Eric Arnold wrote:

> Philippe,
>
> Regarding Pat Shaw's interpretation of "The Hare's Maggot, it's difficult
> to imagine the flow in the A part as the tune runs through my head:
>
> > A1
> > 1-6    First corners, passing each other by the left, move clockwise
> > around their same sex neighbour, meet and then two-hand turn once
> > around.
>
> How do you interpret "meet"?  Does that imply a punctuation point, i.e.
> an interruption of the flow for an acknowledgement of some kind, or a
> forward-&-back movement before the turn, or is it simply a coming together
> and proceeding to turn without any interruption of the flow?

The last assumption, in my opinion, is correct: there is no interruption of
the flow, in othe words, it is one long continuing movement.

> Where does
> "meet" occur most naturally?  It seems to me that it would fit with the
> music best on the third measure, but that might rush the opening phrase a
> bit -- so how do you teach it?

Since it is one long continuing movement, it is difficult to point out  where
the two-hand turn begins. Corners move round for like 3 bars, then meet and
turn, and finish in place. If I were to teach this, I certainly wouldn't
mention the phrasing because it falls together very well. "Just do it" works
better in this case.


Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:07:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:07:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908251607.LAA05929-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

   I've been asked to lead some dances at a period wedding at the Lincoln
Log Cabin Historical Site near Charleston, IL.  This is where Lincoln's
parents lived in the 1840's.  We would like to have a certain degree of
authenticity so if anyone has an suggestions as to what an evening of dance
would have been like in those days and what dances we might try leading
I would love to hear from you.  Obviously dances that are authentic and
ones that will be easy to teach to a non-dancing crowd may be mutually
exclusive.  However I'm hoping we can put together a nice program that will
suit both needs.  Any suggestions as to appropriate music would also be
appreciated.  I want to do a good job for the couple getting married, and
also for the folks at the historical site, but this could also be a great
opportunity to get some publicity for traditional dance (contras and ECD)
since the event is open to the public and in addition to the 200 wedding
guests they estimate that will be 300 vistitors to the site.

   Thanks for and suggestions or pointers to information.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:20:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:20:28 -0400
From: Harold Griswold <griswold-AT-
saber.towson.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.05.9908251215090.3251136-100000-AT-
saber.towson.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:12:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  ID Dance Music
To: griswold-AT-
saber.towson.edu, owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <1a3fc0ac.24f57dae-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In a message dated 8/25/99 4:24:45 PM, griswold-AT-
saber.towson.edu wrote:

<<I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University>>

You may be referring to Highland Lilt, the music for which is in the Neal 
collection, although I don't see the resemblance to Money Musk. I don't 
recall any dance called Highland Fling, although others may. Money Musk can 
be found in lots of collections. The version we usually dance to (on the rare 
occasions on which we do Money Musk) can be found in the Randy MIller book, 
New England Fiddler's Repertoire. 

Gene, I can get you copies of each of these tunes if you wish. You can find 
me at the Baltimore dances: tonight (Wednesday - contras and squares) at 
Lovely Lane, 22nd and St. Paul, or Mondays (ECD) at St. Marks in Pikesville, 
on Reisterstown Rd. 

BTW, I expect that we will be doing Money Musk at our Annual Chestnut Night 
on Wed, Sept 8 at Lovely Lane. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:52:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:49:46 -0500
From: Mike Mudrey <mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu
Message-ID: <4.1.19990825124815.00921b30-AT-
popmail.tds.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Jonathon, when is the wedding?  
I', m leaving later today, and wont be able to help until after Labor Day.

I have a reasonable selection.

mm


Mike Mudrey
P.O. Box 22
New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022

mgmudrey-AT-
madison.tds.net

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:02:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:01:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908251358050.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Harold Griswold wrote:

> I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
> FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
> the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
> for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University

The Highland Fling that I have seen is a solo Scottish dance; I don't know
what tune or tunes they use for it, but a Scottish fiddler should know.
I'll ask a local one and see what she says.

Elke Baker, a well-known Scottish fiddler in Texas, sometimes does a
Highland Fling while playing the tune on a fiddle.   Quite a show!

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:24:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:10:34 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7c3f953.005-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

eric et al.;
  the only elke baker i know (former scottish fiddle champion) lives
in ellicott city, md. (and has for at least several years) so don't go
looking for her in texas!
  sharon "can't let THAT one go by!" mckinley, and finding it hard
enuf to dance, let alone play at the same time for any government
agency


>>> Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu> 08/25 2:01 PM >>>


On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Harold Griswold wrote:

> I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the
HIGHLAND
> FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY
MUSK --
> the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the
music
> for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson
University

The Highland Fling that I have seen is a solo Scottish dance; I don't
know
what tune or tunes they use for it, but a Scottish fiddler should
know.
I'll ask a local one and see what she says.

Elke Baker, a well-known Scottish fiddler in Texas, sometimes does a
Highland Fling while playing the tune on a fiddle.   Quite a show!

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:35:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:34:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908251433290.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Sharon A McKinley wrote:

> eric et al.;
>   the only elke baker i know (former scottish fiddle champion) lives
> in ellicott city, md. (and has for at least several years) so don't go
> looking for her in texas!

Oops!  My apologies to all!

Eric


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:36:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:36:20 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37C437A4.D069438-AT-
home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SGI.4.05.9908251215090.3251136-100000-AT-
saber.towson.edu>

Gene,

The Highland Fling is often danced to the tune "Devil in the Kitchen"
but many Highland-style strathspey tunes with a strong dotted rhythm
will work, e.g., The Marquis of Huntley, The Iron Man, The Smith's a
Gallant Fireman, Balmoral Castle, or Monymusk.

Marjorie McLaughlin
marjoriem-AT-
home.com

Harold Griswold wrote:
> 
> I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
> FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
> the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
> for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:54:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:54:25 -0700
From: Marjorie McLaughlin <marjoriem-AT-
home.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37C43BE1.4494E293-AT-
home.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SGI.4.05.9908251215090.3251136-100000-AT-
saber.towson.edu> <37C437A4.D069438-AT-
home.com>

Gene,

Based on other replies to your posting, I realize that some subscribers
might think you were speaking of a longwise country dance. I assumed you
meant the Scottish solo highland dance - The Highland Fling - and
replied accordingly. I don't know of any country dance -  Scottish or
English - called the Highland Fling, but who knows what lurks in the
libraries of collectors of the esoteric?

Marjorie McLaughlin



Marjorie McLaughlin wrote:
> 
> Gene,
> 
> The Highland Fling is often danced to the tune "Devil in the Kitchen"
> but many Highland-style strathspey tunes with a strong dotted rhythm
> will work, e.g., The Marquis of Huntley, The Iron Man, The Smith's a
> Gallant Fireman, Balmoral Castle, or Monymusk.
> 
> Marjorie McLaughlin
> marjoriem-AT-
home.com
> 
> Harold Griswold wrote:
> >
> > I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
> > FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
> > the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
> > for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:02:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JF6LWDTYSIA9PBHK-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Jonathan --

1840s are an interesting period.  It's pretty much the Dead Zone for original
publication of ECD, which peters out during the 1820s. (Quadrilles get bigger
and bigger; when polkamania hits Europe in 1844 it completely legitimizes the
waltz.  Formal balls start consisting of lots of waltzes, polkas, and the same
sets of quadrilles, repeated several times in an evening.  (Later, galops,
schottisches, mazurkas, etc, get in there as well, and in Germany they do
cotillons - halfway between a dance and a party game.  You might look up some
cotillons.)

Lincoln's parents obviously weren't in formal European ballrooms, and it's  at
least a colourable argument that they would do stuff they enjoyed in their
youth, so you can stretch back to the early 1800s, I should think, which would
give you most of the chestnut contras.  (Hull's Victory, Chorus Jig,
Petronella, etc.)  Do a Lancer's Quadrille (no fancy footwork).  This takes
teaching, but it's at least okay.   A Grand March is an obvious choice.  You
already do a lot of gigs for beginners, if I recall correctly.

One ECD suggestion: The Dorset Triumph, as seen in the Community Dances Manual.
CDM says it's reconstructed from Thomas Hardy's notation, which should make it
1840s, and it's a delightful dance that beginners can do okay with once they
have the idea of progression.  They probably weren't doing it in Illinois, but
at least the time period is right.  (Watch out for the music notation; the band
will want to play the A part at half the speed it should go, because it's
notated confusingly.)  Since it's a wedding, you could probably go ahead and do
the CDM 'Haste to the Wedding', which is probably from later in the Victorian 
period, but not gratingly so.


If you get suggestions off-list, please put them together and post them back
here.  I'd be very interested to hear how this goes.

Good luck!

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:17:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:17:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908251515340.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> Jonathan --
> 
> 1840s are an interesting period.  

[snip]

> One ECD suggestion: The Dorset Triumph, as seen in the Community Dances Manual.
> CDM says it's reconstructed from Thomas Hardy's notation, which should make it
> 1840s, 

Well, Hardy was _born_ in 1840 or thereabouts...

Eric

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:15:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:19:08 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01beef3f$77e929e0$bdecadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In Barnes there's no "Hare's Maggot" but "Up With Aily" has a little
subtitle that says "(to The Hare's Maggot 1701)."  Does this mean that the
tune given for "Up With Aily" is The Hare's Maggot?

Wallowing In Confusion,

Marian



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:32:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908251731240.29728-100000-AT-
qbert.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Heyer wrote:

> In Barnes there's no "Hare's Maggot" but "Up With Aily" has a little
> subtitle that says "(to The Hare's Maggot 1701)."  Does this mean that the
> tune given for "Up With Aily" is The Hare's Maggot?

Right.

Eric Arnold

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:55:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:55:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  The Hair's Maggot (The Hare's Maggot)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <fab10723.24f5ce52-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I was so pleased to read Philippe's strong preference for this dance to its 
own tune that I failed to notice his misinterpretation of Pat's instructions, 
which I quote verbatim below.
    "From Playford's Dancing Master, 12th edition,1703

Original notation
The 1.man goes in between the 2. cu. round the 2. man and turn the 2.wo. ;
His partner does the same likewise on her side:
Both clap sides and cast off, right and left quite round.
Then go the double Figure in the third cu. then turn his partner:

Probable interpretation 
(Triple Minor Set)

A1  The first man goes down the middle, round the  second man back to his 
place and   then turns the second woman with both hands once round. 

A2  The first woman similarly goes down the middle, round the second woman 
back    to her place and then turns the second man.

B1  The two men facing and the two women facing all clap hands (2 bars). The 
first   couple cast into the second place while the second couple move up. (2 
bars)   (Progressive). All four do a circular hey all the way round, partners 
facing to   start. (4 bars)

B2  The first couple now dance a whole figure of eight round the third couple 
and     then turn each other in their progressed place.

Notes and Suggestions

A1 & 2  To make the dance more interesting for the second couples it is 
suggested that in A1 the second woman should go up the middle and round the 
first woman while the first man goes down and round the second man; and 
similarly in A2 the second man should come up and round the first man. There 
is, however, no authority  for this in Playford; it is purely a suggestion.

B1  Playford gives no indication how the clapping was done. Here are two 
suggestions:-
    (i) Together, together, right, together, together, left.
    (ii)Together, right, left, together, left, right.
In Playford's time the circular hey (i.e. "Right and left quite round") was 
almost certainly done giving hands as in a "Grand Chain."

B2  Since the third couples play no active part in the dance, it may be 
desired to make the dance into a Duple Minor Set dance. This can easily be 
done without altering the figure if in B2 the first couple do their Figure 
eight round the new second couple below them. (In practice this has been 
found better than doing it round the original second couple). On reaching the 
bottom of the set the figure of eight can either be done round an imaginary 
couple, or left out altogether.
                                                            P. Sh.-Sh. "    

    I have been teaching and dancing this dance for the last 38 years, and 
the way we do it is this;

Duple minor longways set

A1 First man only goes round his neighbour (clockwise) (bars 1-3)then turns 
second woman with two hands clockwise (bars 4-6).

A2 First woman only goes anticlockwise round her neighbour then turns the 
second  man with two hands anticlockwise.

B1  Clapping - suggestion (ii), followed by first couple casting and four 
changes with    hands.

B2 First couple whole figure down through next second couple and all turn 
partner     with two hands once round.

Marjorie Fennessy and I are in the process of preparing for publication the 
contents of Pat's research notebooks (a daunting task), and The Hair's Maggot 
and Up with Aily will both be included, of course.
                                                Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:37:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:37:43 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908260131.VAA09025-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Jonathan,
Try the Library of Congress's "Dance Instruction Manuals" at 
http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html

For that place and time and for your nondancer audience, you might 
want to try a couple simpler quadrilles, perhaps with a polka step.  
Check out the LOC though.  You'll find wealth of period dance 
manuals--more than you could possibly hope for--right on-line.  Why 
even the anti-dancing manual give explicit dance instructions.  E.,g.,:

"The Polkas, Schottisches, Redowas, Mazourkas, and the German 
are the round dances.  . . .  In them one of the party seizes the other 
closely, about the waist, and whirls her around the room. Her arm and 
head repose on the gentleman's shoulder, and her breast is pressed 
close to his breast. In this attitude they move through the mazes of the 
Waltz. But suddenly a Waltz ceases and a new and abominable series 
of movements begin. Hugging each other more tightly than ever, the 
gentleman backs the girl from one end of the room to the other, then 
the girl backs the gentleman, and they wiggle, they twist, they squirm, 
they bob up and down, they go through motions in the last degree 
objectionable, because of their indecency. All this time the pair do not 
relax their embrace; on the contrary, it is tightened; and so with heated 
blood, with panting breath, bosom heaving against bosom and limb 
pressing against limb, the round dance is executed."
	The Baltimore American, October, 1858

>    I've been asked to lead some dances at a period wedding at the Lincoln
> Log Cabin Historical Site near Charleston, IL.  This is where Lincoln's
> parents lived in the 1840's.  We would like to have a certain degree of
> authenticity so if anyone has an suggestions as to what an evening of
> dance would have been like in those days and what dances we might try
> leading I would love to hear from you.  Obviously dances that are
> authentic and ones that will be easy to teach to a non-dancing crowd may
> be mutually exclusive.  However I'm hoping we can put together a nice
> program that will suit both needs.  Any suggestions as to appropriate
> music would also be appreciated.  I want to do a good job for the couple
> getting married, and also for the folks at the historical site, but this
> could also be a great opportunity to get some publicity for traditional
> dance (contras and ECD) since the event is open to the public and in
> addition to the 200 wedding guests they estimate that will be 300
> vistitors to the site.
> 
>    Thanks for and suggestions or pointers to information.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
> |  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
> |  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
> |  Beckman Institute             |                                     | |
>  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           | | 
> Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 | | 
> Work: 217/244-1923            |                                     | | 
> Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:37:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:37:43 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908260131.VAA09029-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Are you sure that's Highland _Fling_ you want?  If you're looking for 
a dance in the same context as Money Musk, I would guess it would 
more likely be Highland _Reel_ which, like Money Musk, was 
popular around the turn of the 19th century.

> I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the HIGHLAND
> FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY MUSK --
> the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the music
> for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson University
> 
> 


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:24:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:24:04 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: John Davison
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007800b3ea2a3d6f0e-AT-
[140.186.62.138]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Last Saturday evening I was at an event with a lot of Philadelphia Quakers,
and learned to my great sadness that John died in the spring.

John was a composer and improvising pianist, a professor of music at
Haverford College.  He regularly played at camp during the 60s and 70s and
I hired him in the mid and latter 70s to assist the Boston Centre in its
musician growth program.  He was a wonderful bear of a man, with a deep
wellspring of music which emerged from his fingers, brain and spirit
absolutely irrepressably.

He is survived by his wife, Elizabeth, and two children - a boy and a girl,
both now grown.

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:16:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:15:47 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37c4bf73.585c.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

You might also look at: 
<http://pages.cthome.net/geoquest/vds-dances.html> and 
<http://www.geocities.com/~flyingcloudavd/links.html> 
for some information on Vintage Dance. Also, Peter Barnes' book 
"A little Couple Dancemusik" has many tunes in it for couple dances of that
era.
>
>    I've been asked to lead some dances at a period wedding at the Lincoln

> Log Cabin Historical Site near Charleston, IL.  This is where Lincoln's
> parents lived in the 1840's.  We would like to have a certain degree of
> authenticity so if anyone has an suggestions as to what an evening of
> dance would have been like in those days and what dances we might try
> leading I would love to hear from you.  Obviously dances that are
> authentic and ones that will be easy to teach to a non-dancing crowd may
> be mutually exclusive.  However I'm hoping we can put together a nice
> program that will suit both needs.  Any suggestions as to appropriate
> music would also be appreciated.  I want to do a good job for the couple
> getting married, and also for the folks at the historical site, but this
> could also be a great opportunity to get some publicity for traditional
> dance (contras and ECD) since the event is open to the public and in
> addition to the 200 wedding guests they estimate that will be 300
> vistitors to the site.
> 
>    Thanks for and suggestions or pointers to information.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:33:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:33:35 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37c4c39f.63bd.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>In Barnes there's no "Hare's Maggot" but "Up With Aily" has a little
>subtitle that says "(to The Hare's Maggot 1701)."  Does this mean that the

>tune given for "Up With Aily" is The Hare's Maggot?
>
>Wallowing In Confusion,
>
>Marian
>

"The Hare's Maggot" is the tune that has been used for "Up With Aily" everywhere
that I have danced it for the 30+ years that I've been doing ECD, including
CDS, Boston Centre. I would expect it to be the tune in Peter's book. I personally
would find it difficult to change the tune or the dance as they are "programmed"
to go together in my "The Music Will Tell You What to Do" computer. For me they
work, but then I was taught to DANCE the first part not "shuffle into place".


Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:25:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:25:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hare's Maggot
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990826021828.25231B-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Eric Arnold wrote:

> Regarding Pat Shaw's interpretation of "The Hare's Maggot, it's difficult
> to imagine the flow in the A part as the tune runs through my head:
> 
> > A1
> > 1-6    First corners, passing each other by the left, move clockwise
> > around their same sex neighbour, meet and then two-hand turn once
> > around.
> 
> How do you interpret "meet"?  Does that imply a punctuation point, i.e.
> an interruption of the flow for an acknowledgement of some kind, or a
> forward-&-back movement before the turn, or is it simply a coming together
> and proceeding to turn without any interruption of the flow?  Where does
> "meet" occur most naturally?  It seems to me that it would fit with the
> music best on the third measure, but that might rush the opening phrase a
> bit -- so how do you teach it?

The original instructions say "The 1st man goes in between the 2nd couple
round the 2nd man, and turn the 2nd woman. His partner does
the same likewise on her side." However, Playford seems to indicate that
the two moves are not done simultaneously. I've reconstructed it with
first the man, then the woman, going around their neighbors and turning
their corners, and it works quite well - in fact, it can provide an extra
chance to flirt with your corner as you're going around!

There's also another point in Shaw's reconstruction that I have doubts
about. Playford's original instructions for the first time through the B
section say, "Both [i.e. 1st man & woman] clap sides and cast off." What
justification does Shaw give for translating "clap sides" as clapping with
one's neighbor? Could it possibly involve some form of siding instead?

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:16:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:48:26 -0500
From: Dianna Shipman <diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <015e01beef92$cf1b7760$10e8490c-AT-
pavilion>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <s7c3f953.005-AT-
loc.gov>

Elke Baker played for a Scottish Country Dance ball in Ft. Worth last June
that I attended and I bought several of her CD's - one for Scottish dancing,
one for listening and one with some other musicians that is all waltz music
and some wonderful waltz tunes - a wonderful musician - she has a web page
at:  http://members.aol.com/bakerez1/ and it shows a Maryland address.
Dianna L. Shipman
diannashipman-AT-
worldnet.att.net
Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law
1436 W.Gray, #134
Houston, TX 77019-4946
web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman
phone: 713-522-1212
----- Original Message -----
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
To: <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: ID Dance Music


> eric et al.;
>   the only elke baker i know (former scottish fiddle champion) lives
> in ellicott city, md. (and has for at least several years) so don't go
> looking for her in texas!
>   sharon "can't let THAT one go by!" mckinley, and finding it hard
> enuf to dance, let alone play at the same time for any government
> agency
>
>
> >>> Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu> 08/25 2:01 PM >>>
>
>
> On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Harold Griswold wrote:
>
> > I've been asked to provide the music for dancers performing the
> HIGHLAND
> > FLING. I can't find the music anywhere, but it sounds like MONEY
> MUSK --
> > the first 8 bars seem identical.  Anybody know where I can find the
> music
> > for either of these dances?  thanks,  Gene Griswold,  Towson
> University
>
> The Highland Fling that I have seen is a solo Scottish dance; I don't
> know
> what tune or tunes they use for it, but a Scottish fiddler should
> know.
> I'll ask a local one and see what she says.
>
> Elke Baker, a well-known Scottish fiddler in Texas, sometimes does a
> Highland Fling while playing the tune on a fiddle.   Quite a show!
>
> Eric Arnold
>  Ann Arbor
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:01:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:59:10 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hair's Maggot (The Hare's Maggot)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37C51DFE.B9C330D8-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <fab10723.24f5ce52-AT-
aol.com>

SallenNic-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> I was so pleased to read Philippe's strong preference for this dance to its
> own tune that I failed to notice his misinterpretation of Pat's instructions,
> which I quote verbatim belowe round.

I feel misinterpretation isn't the right term here. I typed in the version I
usually teach; also, on purpose, I kept the notation succint. In my opinion, a
forum like this list is fine for quickly passing on dance notations, but each of
us should try to get the "real", actual publication (which in this case is not
obvious).

> Marjorie Fennessy and I are in the process of preparing for publication the
> contents of Pat's research notebooks (a daunting task), and The Hair's Maggot
> and Up with Aily will both be included, of course.
>

I can't wait to buy that volume. Wonderful that Nicolas and Marjorie are putting
it together. I heard from her that there are more than 200 dances ...


Philippe Callens

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:24:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 07:22:57 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s7c4eb7b.004-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

hey, folks;
  i dunno what was in that address rich gave, but it wouldn't work for me. here's one that won't take you directly to the book, but to the collection-finder page; hit performing arts, then search for "dance instruction."
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/finder.html
 one great reason to start here is you can easily access ALL the american memory collections, and they're GREAT!
  enjoy!
  sharon "isn't that american memory stuff WONDERFUL" mckinley, and an unofficial booster for at least ONE government agency


>>> Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> 08/25 5:37 PM >>>
Jonathan,
Try the Library of Congress's "Dance Instruction Manuals" at 
http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html¤ 

For that place and time and for your nondancer audience, you might 
want to try a couple simpler quadrilles, perhaps with a polka step.  
Check out the LOC though.  You'll find wealth of period dance 
manuals--more than you could possibly hope for--right on-line.  Why 
even the anti-dancing manual give explicit dance instructions.  E.,g.,:

"The Polkas, Schottisches, Redowas, Mazourkas, and the German 
are the round dances.  . . .  In them one of the party seizes the other 
closely, about the waist, and whirls her around the room. Her arm and 
head repose on the gentleman's shoulder, and her breast is pressed 
close to his breast. In this attitude they move through the mazes of the 
Waltz. But suddenly a Waltz ceases and a new and abominable series 
of movements begin. Hugging each other more tightly than ever, the 
gentleman backs the girl from one end of the room to the other, then 
the girl backs the gentleman, and they wiggle, they twist, they squirm, 
they bob up and down, they go through motions in the last degree 
objectionable, because of their indecency. All this time the pair do not 
relax their embrace; on the contrary, it is tightened; and so with heated 
blood, with panting breath, bosom heaving against bosom and limb 
pressing against limb, the round dance is executed."
	The Baltimore American, October, 1858

>    I've been asked to lead some dances at a period wedding at the Lincoln
> Log Cabin Historical Site near Charleston, IL.  This is where Lincoln's
> parents lived in the 1840's.  We would like to have a certain degree of
> authenticity so if anyone has an suggestions as to what an evening of
> dance would have been like in those days and what dances we might try
> leading I would love to hear from you.  Obviously dances that are
> authentic and ones that will be easy to teach to a non-dancing crowd may
> be mutually exclusive.  However I'm hoping we can put together a nice
> program that will suit both needs.  Any suggestions as to appropriate
> music would also be appreciated.  I want to do a good job for the couple
> getting married, and also for the folks at the historical site, but this
> could also be a great opportunity to get some publicity for traditional
> dance (contras and ECD) since the event is open to the public and in
> addition to the 200 wedding guests they estimate that will be 300
> vistitors to the site.
> 
>    Thanks for and suggestions or pointers to information.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
> |  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
> |  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
> |  Beckman Institute             |                                     | |
>  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           | | 
> Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 | | 
> Work: 217/244-1923            |                                     | | 
> Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:19:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:22:38 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: earliest ECD ref?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef022$44d02ac0$b3eaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Another random history question --

What is the earliest reference to English country dancing?  I don't mean
dance manuals -- just a mention indicating that it existed.  I've been told
of Elizabethan mentions -- but are there any earlier?  I'm just curious as
to how far back ECD is documented as an existing dance form.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:15:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:14:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Railing <mrailing-AT-
kiva.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: earliest ECD ref?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990826205350.11383B-100000-AT-
sherrill.kiva.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Thomas Morley in _A Plaine and Easie Introduction to Practicall Musicke_
(1597) uses the terms "country dancing" and "our English country dances".
Various dances that are now known as country dances are mentioned a bit
earlier, such as in "Baccus' Bountie" (1593) "...that old hop-about
commonly called Sellengar's Round." Some people have made a career out of
collecting early mentions of country dance names (which isn't the same
thing as demonstrating that an ECD-style dance was actually danced to
that tune at that point, rather than a round dance or something else).
You'll probably get lots more quotes if you want them.  The upshot of it
all, however, is that country dances as we know them are at best a
late-1500's development and don't really take off until the 1600's.  

--Mary Railing

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:37:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:37:34 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908270430.AAA09402-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT

> hey, folks;
>   i dunno what was in that address rich gave, but it wouldn't work for me.

[Big snip]

> >>> Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> 08/25 5:37 PM >>>
> Jonathan,
> Try the Library of Congress's "Dance Instruction Manuals" at
> http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html¤

No wonder, that's not the URL I typed.  Although you can find nearly
anything under the sun in the LOC, the URL won't work with that
funny sun symbol at the end.  It should be:

http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/dihtml/dicatlg.html


====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:46:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:50:58 -0700
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: earliest ECD ref?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01bef047$c0ec2bc0$79eaadce-AT-
default>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Mary Railing writes:

>>rather than a round dance 

Many thanks.  What is a round dance?

Marian




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 02:58:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:57:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Hair's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <182ba9bd.24f7bb22-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

    Grovelling apologies to Philippe - I misread what he had written! I'm an 
idiot.
However, that did spur me on to type Pat's original instructions, which I 
hope will be of interest to someone, somewhere.

    Have a good time at Pinewoods, those who are off this Saturday.
                                                                    Nicolas B.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:22:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:12:15 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Off to Pinewoods
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Message-ID: <v04205501b3ec30ae84d6-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <182ba9bd.24f7bb22-AT-
aol.com>

At 5:57 AM -0400 8/27/99, SallenNic-AT-
aol.com wrote:
> Have a good time at Pinewoods, those who are off this Saturday.
>                                                                    Nicolas B.

Thanks Nic!  I'm still making piles of stuff to bring.  AND keeping 
an eye on those pesky hurricanes.


Mary Beth

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:22:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:20:47 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Peter Redgate
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205502b3ec31219fe3-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

This announcement was made on the Morris Dance Discussion List, but 
hasn't been made here as far as I've seen.

Peter Redgate, formerly of Green Fiddle Morris and Half-Crown Clog 
out of Toronto, and lately member of New Rigged Ship and other 
pursuits in London, Ontario, died unexpectedly on August 16th from 
complications of pancreatitis. His distress was brief.

There were plans being made for a memorial party on the Monday of the 
Toronto Ale week-end (contact Mark Cameron markc-AT-
pathcom.com for 
info).

Messages can be sent by land mail to his wife Margot Kearney at 41 
Vauxhall St., London, Ontario N5Z 1B3

Some of you know Peter and Margot from Pinewoods as well - as part of 
the Canadian Contingent.

Peter will be missed for his cheerfulness and humor as well as his 
playing and dancing.

Sadly

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:09:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990827170114.18272.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:
>
> Why 
> even the anti-dancing manual give explicit dance instructions. 
E.,g.,:
> 
> ".  . . .   one of the party seizes the other 
> closely, about the waist, and whirls her around the room ...  with
heated 
> blood, with panting breath, bosom heaving against bosom and limb 
> pressing against limb, the round dance is executed."


Oh yeah, I remember doing that one.
I forget the name of the dance, but I think "Bare Neccessities" was
playing at the time. 

Barbara Ruth
New Haven, CT
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:42:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:42:39 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Not ECD:  Fwd: [SAABec] OFF subject/This one is no hoax
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37c6ce0f.1eea.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

   The attached message came from a SAAB e-mail list that is primarily British.
I looked at the suggested site (Wired On-line News) and it appears to be a plausable
warning from reputable people. Then there's the fact that Microsoft has created
a patch for repair so there seems to be legitimacy to the problem.
   Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of virus and warnings we seem to
hear about are aimed at Microsoft products? All the more reason to use anything
but MS wherever possible.

Andy in Portland

>Windows folks,
>
>I strongly suggest you read this:
> <http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21459.html>
>
>There is a link to a patch here:
>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/Security/Bulletins/MS99-031.asp>
>
>Spreading the word on this one might be a good deed ;)
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:43:42 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:43:12 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Not ECD:  Fwd: [SAABec] OFF subject/This one is no hoax
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37c6ce30.1fc2.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

   The attached message came from a SAAB e-mail list that is primarily British.
I looked at the suggested site (Wired On-line News) and it appears to be a plausable
warning from reputable people. Then there's the fact that Microsoft has created
a patch for repair so there seems to be legitimacy to the problem.
   Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of virus and warnings we seem to
hear about are aimed at Microsoft products? All the more reason to use anything
but MS wherever possible.

Andy in Portland

>Windows folks,
>
>I strongly suggest you read this:
> <http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/21459.html>
>
>There is a link to a patch here:
>
> <http://www.microsoft.com/Security/Bulletins/MS99-031.asp>
>
>Spreading the word on this one might be a good deed ;)
>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:49:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:49:26 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: need dances from 1840's
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37c6cfa6.25d7.0-AT-
jps.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:
>>
>> Why 
>> even the anti-dancing manual give explicit dance instructions. 
>E.,g.,:
>> 
>> ".  . . .   one of the party seizes the other 
>> closely, about the waist, and whirls her around the room ...  with
>heated 
>> blood, with panting breath, bosom heaving against bosom and limb 
>> pressing against limb, the round dance is executed."
>
>
>Oh yeah, I remember doing that one.
>I forget the name of the dance, but I think "Bare Neccessities" was
>playing at the time. 
>
>Barbara Ruth
>New Haven, CT
>

I can certainly remember a few of those dances myself, but they
 were at Vintage events and probably with BLT playing.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:06:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:04:48 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Not ECD:  Fwd: [SAABec] OFF subject/This one is no hoax
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <37C6FD70.150EADD3-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <37c6ce30.1fc2.0-AT-
jps.net>

adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of virus and warnings we seem to
> hear about are aimed at Microsoft products? All the more reason to use anything
> but MS wherever possible.

Since the vast majority of virus warnings are hoaxes (I have not checked this particular
one), I don't believe you can safely make that generalization.

--Charlene

--
The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how
difficult it was.


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 06:43:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:43:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patricia W White <pwhite-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: English Dance in Indianapolis?
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.990828093807.23578B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Are there any English Country Dance events in Indianapolis?  I will be
there from September 1-6, and I will be visiting relatives there in the
future.  
Pat


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:10:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:20:19 -0400
From: John Patcai <john.patcai-AT-
utoronto.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <014f01bef1cd$6cbd7d60$8a81968e-AT-
john>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_bxtAPWs8CKQMWxj7TukR7w)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_bxtAPWs8CKQMWxj7TukR7w)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Hello to all, from a new subscriber to the list.

We are planning an ECD ball in Toronto, on Feb. 5, 2000. The ECD group is small here, and we are hoping to attract a number of new people to the ball, and to ECD in general. Our discussions recently have focused on the musicians / band. The current proposal is to assemble a group of experienced musicians, but not experienced in playing for ECD, nor in playing (no snickers please) with each other. The plan is for them to practice as a band, and with some dancers, a few times in the months leading up to the ball.

I am requesting that anyone with a story of dancing to excellent musicians, inexperienced in playing for ECD, share their stories of how this turned out, on or off list. I am looking for both good and bad stories. 

In the course of our e-mails, I came up with a list of ways in which it might be possible to mess up in playing ECD music. I noted that only the first two could be cured by technical proficiency on the instrument at hand. I enclose the list below for your amusement. If you have your own favourite item to add to the list of ways, e-mail me off-list at john.patcai-AT-
utoronto.ca , and I will add the best replies to the list and eventually send it back to the discussion list.

doesn't play the notes of the tune.
doesn't play in tune.
recovers lost notes by going back and playing them, rather than staying in tempo.
doesn't lift eyes off printed music, or off instrument.
doesn't phrase the music to the dance.
doesn't give "lift" to music to allow dancers to move well / plodding.
doesn't vary the tune/phrasing enough to maintain interest.
uses variations to the point where the tune is lost, and hence the dancers are lost.
doesn't maintain rock steady tempo / "artistic" tempo changes.
doesn't start at the tempo the caller requests.
doesn't know when the caller requests a tempo that isn't dancable.
can't change a tempo that should change, "locked in".
unable to improvise a start to a tune that will unequivocally tell the tempo to the dancers and band .
doesn't appreciate how to communicate that the tune is ending to the dancers.
not aware of dancers (can't tell if dancers are enjoying tune / tempo).
not aware of caller (doesn't see when caller is trying to communicate with band).
not aware of band leader (doesn't see when leader gives instructions to the band).
not aware of band members ( doesn't respond to what other musicians are doing).
not aware of when should take solo, and when should play rhythmic / harmonic backup.
not aware of how to provide rhythmic / harmonic backup.
plays inappropriate rhythmic / harmonic backup.
not aware of when should drop out, or when should come back in.
has difficulty with smooth transitions in a medley of tunes.

Regards

John Patcai



--Boundary_(ID_bxtAPWs8CKQMWxj7TukR7w)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=3>Hello to all,&nbsp;from a new subscriber to the 
list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>We are planning an ECD ball in Toronto, on Feb. 5, 2000. 
The ECD group is small here, and we are hoping to attract a number of new people 
to the ball, and to ECD in general. Our discussions recently have focused on the 
musicians / band. The current proposal is to assemble a group of experienced 
musicians, but not experienced in playing for ECD, nor in playing (no snickers 
please) with each other. The plan is for them to practice as a band, and with 
some dancers, a few times in the months leading up to the ball.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=3>I am requesting that anyone with a story of dancing 
to excellent musicians, inexperienced in playing for ECD, share their stories of 
how this turned out, on or off list. I am looking for both good and bad stories. 
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>In the course of our e-mails, I came up with a list of 
ways in which it might be possible to mess up in playing ECD music. I noted that 
only the first two could be cured by technical proficiency on the instrument at 
hand. I enclose the list below for your amusement. If you have your own 
favourite item to add to the list of ways, e-mail me off-list at <A 
href="mailto:john.patcai-AT-
utoronto.ca">john.patcai-AT-
utoronto.ca</A> , and I 
will&nbsp;add the best replies to the&nbsp;list and eventually send it back to 
the discussion list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>doesn't play the notes of the tune.<BR>doesn't play in 
tune.<BR>recovers lost notes by going back and playing them, rather than staying 
in tempo.<BR>doesn't lift eyes off printed music, or off instrument.<BR>doesn't 
phrase the music to the dance.<BR>doesn't give "lift" to music to allow dancers 
to move well / plodding.<BR>doesn't vary the tune/phrasing enough to maintain 
interest.<BR>uses variations to the point where the tune is lost, and hence the 
dancers are lost.<BR>doesn't maintain rock steady tempo / "artistic" tempo 
changes.<BR>doesn't start at the tempo the caller requests.<BR>doesn't know when 
the caller requests a tempo that isn't dancable.<BR>can't change a tempo that 
should change, "locked in".<BR>unable to improvise a start to a tune that will 
unequivocally tell the tempo to the dancers and band .<BR>doesn't appreciate how 
to communicate that the tune is ending to the dancers.<BR>not aware of dancers 
(can't tell if dancers are enjoying tune / tempo).<BR>not aware of caller 
(doesn't see when caller is trying to communicate with band).<BR>not aware of 
band leader (doesn't see when leader gives instructions to the band).<BR>not 
aware of band members ( doesn't respond to what other musicians are 
doing).<BR>not aware of when should take solo, and when should play rhythmic / 
harmonic backup.<BR>not aware of how to provide rhythmic / harmonic 
backup.<BR>plays inappropriate rhythmic / harmonic backup.<BR>not aware of when 
should drop out, or when should come back in.<BR>has difficulty with smooth 
transitions in a medley of tunes.<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=3>Regards</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=3></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=3>John 
Patcai<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_bxtAPWs8CKQMWxj7TukR7w)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 20:21:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:21:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD musicians
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9908282314010.1939-100000-AT-
mesa.princeton.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, John Patcai wrote:

> Hello to all, from a new subscriber to the list.
> 
> We are planning an ECD ball in Toronto, on Feb. 5, 2000. The ECD group
> is small here, and we are hoping to attract a number of new people to
> the ball, and to ECD in general. Our discussions recently have focused
> on the musicians / band. The current proposal is to assemble a group
> of experienced musicians, but not experienced in playing for ECD, nor
> in playing (no snickers please) with each other. The plan is for them
> to practice as a band, and with some dancers, a few times in the
> months leading up to the ball.

practicing with dancers is a great idea.  having the musicians dance would
be equally valuable.

if you can include even one steady, experienced dance musician in the
group, it would also help.  i've learned a lot from playing alongside
people who are better dance musicians than i; it's harder if everyone in
the group is new to it.  (not impossible, but harder.)
 
you could also try to compose a positive version of your list of ways to
mess up -- i.e., statements about how to play dance music well -- to
encourage your budding musicians.

best of luck, and let us know how it goes!

susie lorand
princeton, nj

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:34:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:33:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Not ECD:  Fwd: [SAABec] OFF subject/This one is no hoax
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.10.9908290933190.20109-100000-AT-
panix6.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
>    Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of virus and warnings we seem to
> hear about are aimed at Microsoft products? 
  Gee, it might give you the idea that somebody has something against
Microsoft.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:34:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:33:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Linden <wlinden-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Not ECD:  Fwd: [SAABec] OFF subject/This one is no hoax
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.10.9908290933190.20109-100000-AT-
panix6.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:
>    Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of virus and warnings we seem to
> hear about are aimed at Microsoft products? 
  Gee, it might give you the idea that somebody has something against
Microsoft.

Will Linden  wlinden-AT-
panix.com
http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/
Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:41:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:41:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD musicians
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990829144142.15314.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

John Patcai wrote:
<snip>
>I am requesting that anyone with a story of dancing to excellent 
> >musicians, inexperienced in playing for ECD, share their stories of >how 
>this turned out, on or off list. I am looking for both good and >bad 
>stories.

Gene Murrow has a helpful appendix on working with musicians in his 
wonderful syllabus for the English Dance Leadership in Music course. He has 
collected guides from various sources and added his own, too. It would be 
perfect for you. Try to get your hands on it.

One pitfall that I was trying to find but couldn't on brief scan for this 
post (must be in another section) concerns knowing the dance and signalling 
the end. There are some dances (eg Jamaica) where you must know that ONCE 
through the dance is TWICE through the music. So, if the caller signals "1" 
you might just have the inexperienced musicians ending in the middle of the 
dance.

Margherita
  - who would be at Pinewoods right now with Gene & a lot of this list, if 
only we could have arranged adequate menagerie care...:(

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:48:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:47:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: English Dance in Indianapolis?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199908291847.NAA17058-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Patricia W White writes:
> 
> Are there any English Country Dance events in Indianapolis?  I will be
> there from September 1-6, and I will be visiting relatives there in the
> future.  

   There are no ECD groups in Indiana, AFAIK.  The closest one to Indy would
be the Central Illinois ECD in Champaign-Urbana, about 2 hours away.  We
don't have a dance scheduled during the time you mention unfortunately.
There is a contra dance group in Indy, but they dance on Tuesdays so you
will miss that as well.  They also have monthly dances on Saturdays, but
they are usually on the 4th Saturdays of the month.

   There is also a contra dance in Bloomington, IN.  They dance on Wednesdays
so you might be able to make it to that.  In CU we have contra dances on
1st and 3rd Fridays as a rule.  You can find more info at the following
websites.

http://www.prairienet.org/ciecd/
http://www.indy.net/~cudworth/contra/home.html
http://www.bloomington.in.us/~botmdg/
http://www.iit.edu/~jfiga/UCD/index.html

   I hope this is helpful and that we'll see you at a dance someday.

Jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------