Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:13:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:12:45 -0500 (EST) From: GAFF-AT- neu.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre! To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JE91O3VJOI8ZLHUA-AT- neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT You're welcome Mary Beth! But now since you brought it up,you have to tell us what you like about it. o get the ball rolling,one of the things I liked about the CD was the strong use of rhythm in the last few rounds of the "Female Saylor" and "Round About Our Coalfire". It really pumps energy into these tunes. Anybody else? best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 08:29:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 09:26:34 -0600 From: William DeRagon Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Music from Feuillet & Essex in ABC notation To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990801.092636.-991087.0.wderagon-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In 1700, Raoul-Auger Feuillet published, in Paris, a dance notation system using diagrams and symbols, rather than words, to describe movements and figures. His "Recueil de Contredances" (1706) includes a simpler explanation of the system along with instructions for 32 country dances in the style then prevalent in England. The explanatory material in that volume was translated into English by John Essex in "For the Further Improvement of Dancing..." (London, 1710). Essex included 3 dances from Feuillet and an additional 7 country dances. (In 1964 or 1965, Pat Shaw issued a pamphlet entitled "Six Simple Country Dances..." which included interpretations of dances from Essex's manual.) The music in Feuillet's manual is scored in the French violin clef (G clef centered on the bottom line of the staff). To avoid dealing with that, and as an aid to interpreting the dance notation system, I have scored in ABC all the music in Feuillet's 1706 and Essex's 1710 manuals. Many of the dances have been past topics of the ECD Mailing List; e.g., Les Manches Vertes (Greensleeves and Yellow Lace), Jumping Joan (Jeanne Qui Saute), La Matelotte (The Female Saylor), and The Trip to the Jubilee. If interested, please request the ABC file through a private response to me at wderagon-AT- juno.com. (The music is in the public domain.) William DeRagon Albuquerque, NM ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 11:28:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 14:26:20 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre! To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JE91O3VJOI8ZLHUA-AT- neu.edu> > But now since you brought it up,you have to tell >us what you like about it. Well to be honest, it brought back strong memories of my first time to pinewoods camp, when we danced in the scout building and the music made me want to cry because it was so beautiful. How about that? Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 12:40:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 15:39:28 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Thank you Boston Centre! To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199908011539_MC2-7F5A-10C9-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message text written by Terry Gaffney >> But now since you brought it up,you have to tell >us what you like about it.< Let me second Terry's request and ask all you aficionados to put your likes and dislikes in e-writing. Boston Centre and Bare Necessities asked me to produce these CD's, and I'd appreciate your suggestions, reactions, and criticisms. What does a producer do, exactly? For this on-going project, I've been selecting and ordering the tunes, determining tempos and length, researching and writing the liner notes, overseeing the business end of the creative process (royalties, manufacturing, etc.), and organizing things in the recording studio. In this last capacity, I act as a sounding board for the BN's many creative ideas, suggest new ones, help determine when a track is "done," and generally keep things moving along. Your input to me in any of these areas would be helpful, as you all are the primary audience. We've got a 2nd "Favorites" CD already recorded to be released in October, and 2 more CD's in the planning stages (look for releases in early 2000). Unless your comments would be of general interest to the ECD community, let's not clutter up Alan's ECD forum; send e-mail directly to me and/or Terry or Dan (Pearl). Thanks very much, Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Musician, Caller, and facilitator of collaborative efforts to further our beloved cause ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 14:31:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 17:30:45 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Band Compensation report To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks to everyone who sent me data on band compensation! Instead of providing averages, I thought it made more sense just to give you the raw numbers. 0 5 0-25 11-18 20 22.9 25 25 25 45 60 65 A number of smaller dances divide the gate among the musicians after paying rent and other expenses. The most important difference in compensation occurs when an organization gets large enough to loosen the connection between gate and musicians' compensation. Contra dance players seem to get more money everywhere. best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:23:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:23:31 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37a62873.4d3b.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >Tom Roby wrote: > >Which reminds me of another Swarthmore Parents' Day performance where we >did "Waters of Holland" (This was not long after the first Bare >Necessities album came out.) Although this is a mixer, we expected to >get our original partners back at the end of three times. I was >surprised to find myself bowing to "Henry" at the end, while "Margaret" >and "Alison" gracefully curtsied to each other. I hope I wiped the >astonishment off my face in time, and we exited as if nothing had >happened. But it was the kind of mistake that even the untrained >observer would have easily caught. > >Any other stories about performances gone awry? > At a Nordlys performance that I was not at, Darren Knittle fell off the back of a very shallow stage. I remember at a festival that Reel Nutmeg was some years ago in Middletown, CT, the next to last act was a very professional belly-dance group. One of the women was doing a dance with swords and during one broad sweep over her head, she shattered the flourescent light above her. The next dancer was the groups director with a rather sizable snake. The last act, the Mt. Laurel Cloggers, was an anti-climax after that group. I did a one time performance with a group once in Longmeadow, MA. The stage was made from several 4x8 sheets of plywood with a 2x4 frame on legs about 18" high. The legs were supposed to be bolted on, but after one section collapsed under me (in the middle of Newcastle), it was discovered that most of the nuts were missing. The rest of the performance was delayed for some time while someone went and bought nuts from the hardware store. The worst thing that has ever happened to me was at a Reel Nutmeg "dress rehearsal" performance a couple days before NEFFA one year. The Suite started with twice through each of three different versions of Petronella: Scottish, Early American and modern Contra. Dale and I were first couple in the Scottish version and as we turned to dance back up the middle, I came down hard on the corner of a Grand piano that was hidden behind the back curtain. I don't know if the audience was ever aware of it, but it was hard getting through the entire suite with the pain I shooting through my hip. Andy in Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:43:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:42:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JEAR8IV6269JJCY7-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My worst performance nightmare: As part of a tour with the second Berkeley morris ale, the Deer Creek Morris Men were dancing at the Exploratorium in San Francisco, indoors, in front of several hundred parents and children. (Most of them had no idea what we were doing, and the noise level was high enough that they might not have been able to hear the music.) At the time, Deer Creek wore extremely baggy knee-length breeches. We were in a set ready to start Bampton Trunckles; went through the once-to-yourself, and as we started moving on the foot up, the elastic in my boxer shorts picked that exact moment to fail, and the boxers fell all the way to the knee. It is not easy to morris dance with your knees tied together. If it had been Sherbourne instead of Bampton, it would have been impossible. More visible, though somewhat less disconcerting, was the sash that, despite being safety-pinned on in four places, unwound itself from my middle and hit the floor during a longsword dance. Both hands were, of course, occupied holding swords, so I could only watch the inevitable progression of of sash to floor, and kick it out of the way once it was gone. This was at a tech rehearsal rather than in front of an audience, which is why it's only my second-worst performance nightmare. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 06:36:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:36:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Pearl Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199908031336.JAA13223-AT- alta.sw.stratus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Great stories. They would go well during our "Gigs from Hell" story swap at NEFFA. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:50:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:48:23 -0400 From: Sharon A McKinley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: hartford events? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECD folk: this never works, as the guilt trip laid upon me by my folks is usually too strong to disobey, but is there anything going on in hartford and environs on fri-sat, aug. 13-14? ECD or contras would be nice, if they're close (like close to farmington). reply off-list, please. thanks, sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:57:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:39:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990803153901.21487.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---adpete-AT- jps.net wrote: > I remember at a festival that Reel Nutmeg was some years ago in Middletown, > CT, the next to last act was a very professional belly-dance group. One of the > women was doing a dance with swords and during one broad sweep over her head, > she shattered the flourescent light above her. The next dancer was the groups > director with a rather sizable snake. That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of music and dance in Connectict. THIS Fall it will be taking place on the weekend of of November 5-7. I don't know if there will be any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have got English! The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10 hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances, Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your confirmations by mail yet!) Given the wonderful but unexpected English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions will be held in the main gym! More information will be posted as available. Meanwhile, mark your calendars and watch this space! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:04:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:56:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990803155644.5920.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >Tom Roby wrote: > > > >Any other stories about performances gone awry? Does it count if it's not English and not even visible. I was doing my monthly rotation as a Folk DJ on the local college radio station just this Sunday afternoon, and a friend called in to tell me that the part he and his son enjoyed the most was during the news stories when I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes _before_ taking off. I wonder how many other people caught that. Barbara _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 09:14:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 12:24:37 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990803121923.00b34610-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 08:39 AM 8/3/99 -0700, Barbara Ruth wrote: > I don't know if there will be any >snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have >got English! The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10 >hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary >Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances, >Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha >Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge >Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your >confirmations by mail yet!) Given the wonderful but unexpected >English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions >will be held in the main gym! NOMAD is the most ECD-friendly festival I know--on Sundays the rare unscheduled room has been known to become the site of an impromptu "guerilla" ECD for Those Who Can't Get Enough. Great fun! Sharon Green (student of guerilla tactics) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:12:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990803211310.9313.rocketmail-AT- web108.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of > music and dance in Connecticut. THIS Fall it will be taking place > on the weekend of of November 5-7. I don't know if there will be > any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we > have got English! The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a workshop/party on Saturday. Lyrl Ahern _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:03:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:03:35 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37a79167.2b50.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of music >and dance in Connectict. THIS Fall it will be taking place on the >weekend of of November 5-7. I don't know if there will be any >snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we have >got English! The schedule is still in process, but there will be 10 >hours of English sessions during the weekend, with callers Gary >Roodman (first time at NOMAD, doing a program of his own dances, >Fried Herman, Beverly Francis, Robin Hadyn, Sharon Green, Martha >Davies, Graham Christian, Andreas Hadyn, Peggy Vermilya, and Marge >Potter. (Surprise those of you who haven't received your >confirmations by mail yet!) Given the wonderful but unexpected >English turnout last year, this year several of the English sessions >will be held in the main gym! > >More information will be posted as available. Meanwhile, mark your >calendars and watch this space! > Great plug for NOMAD, which I would love to go to sometime, but the festival I was at was a year or two before NOMAD was started and was in a city park in Middletown. It was just performances and was part of some city function as I recall. After the belly dancers finished and the cloggers came on I discoverd that the film in my camera wasn't advancing so I rememberit well. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:08:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 18:08:15 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> >Barbara Ruth wrote: > >Does it count if it's not English and not even visible. I was doing >my monthly rotation as a Folk DJ on the local college radio station >just this Sunday afternoon, and a friend called in to tell me that >the part he and his son enjoyed the most was during the news stories >when I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes >_before_ taking off. > >I wonder how many other people caught that. > I'll bail you out. It could have gone off the runway and crashed before taking off. Andy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:37:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:30:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Heyer Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I figure someone here will probably know about: Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new figures from time to time? Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them into new dances? Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous editions? And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures? If so, what are some examples? Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 00:20:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:18:13 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37A7E934.6B5542B4-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> This may become quite a thread ... Marian! Heyer wrote: > I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I figure someone here will probably know about: > > Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new figures from time to time? Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them into new dances? Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous editions? > There certainly is! After all, in such a long period (c.1650-c.1820) things did not remain unchanged. And that's also true for steps, formation, music, ... For example compare Hearts Ease (Playford, 1651), Lille (Walsh, 1710) and Juliana (Wilson, 1814). Execution of figures changed, too: "rights and lefts" is an example of that. > And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures? If so, what are some examples? Oh yes, although we, late 20th century ECD dancers, leaders, and choreographers, shouldn't think we invented it all. "Face en face" is probably a "new figure". Fried de Metz has used that movement a lot in her dances (although it also pops up in a Cor Hogendijk dance, published 1973). A figure sometimes becomes new when it is felt that it should be defined and named. Philippe Callens Antwerp, Belgium ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 05:48:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:47:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There certainly are instructions in some of the Playford editions that were invented along the way -- things like "First man takes out his snuffbox, takes a pinch, offers some to his Lady, who takes some..." and "First man points at the second woman's eyes, raises his hands in dispair, and turns her..." (not the exact wording; this is from memory, but I'm not making it up -- look through the several editions of the Dancing Master at the Library of Congress' American Memories web site!) Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:08:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:10:33 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT How do you do "face en face"? Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:05:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: RiverStSch-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: hartford events? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <13815f8c.24d9daa2-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sharon... Call Jim Gregory in West Hartford, he usually lists on his answering machine the weekend Contra dances in Hartford. No English .... Helen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:18:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:22:24 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Making stuff up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990804112224.007b8740-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Many choreographers create new figures some of which are creative recombinations of familiar bits. For example, Fried's "chevron" is made up of advance, retire, and side step in a new and unusual pattern. Once the original sequence is used in another dance, its probably constitutes a new figure, whether it gets a new name or not. Fried likes to name hers, and she's invented quite a few. Antony Heywood has used the very original figure from the B1 of his Enrichez-Vous in another dance, so it probably constitutes a new figure, but he hasn't named it, leaving us the problem of explaining it each time to people who haven't seen it before. I don't recall seeing "cloverleaf" turn singles anywhere in Playford. Maybe they did them that way in Playford's time, but I suspect that its a recent invention. Is the term post-Sharp, even if the figure isn't? One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file called "goose walk" by Fried. Yes, I know geese follow each other in single file lines, so its appropriate. I still cringe every time I hear it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative associations with Nazis. I'm not the only one-- there was a stunned silence at Mendocino this summer when Philippe used the term, and an audible sigh of relief when he explained what he meant. I hope someone comes up with a different name for it. Victoria Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:21:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:23:29 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: goose walk To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file >called "goose walk" by Fried. Yes, I know geese follow each other in >single file lines, so its appropriate. I still cringe every time I hear >it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative >associations with Nazis. I've heard it called "single file, Indian style" by a square-dance caller - but maybe that won't please people either. What's wrong with just "single file"? I am not offended by "goose walk" but don't find it particularly descriptive. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:32:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:34:01 -0700 From: Stephanie Smith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: goose walk To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37A8F819.EF51A07E-AT- boo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: In her recent compositions, Fried generally calls this a "meander." I don't think I've ever heard her use the term "goose walk." Stephanie Smith Emma Rushton wrote: > > >One Fried figure I'd like to see renamed is the circle left in single file > >called "goose walk" by Fried. Yes, I know geese follow each other in > >single file lines, so its appropriate. I still cringe every time I hear > >it--its just too close to "goose-step" for me, with all those negative > >associations with Nazis. > > I've heard it called "single file, Indian style" by a square-dance caller - > but maybe that won't please people either. What's wrong with just "single > file"? I am not offended by "goose walk" but don't find it particularly > descriptive. > > Emma > > - > Emma Rushton, > Department of Biology, > University of Utah, > 257 South, 1400 East > Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 > > (801) 585-1926 (office) > (801) 585-9425 (lab) > (801) 581-4668 (fax) > > rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:36:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 20:35:50 -0400 (EDT) From: SFORDNYC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making stuff up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 8/4/99 5:20:41 PM EST, bestockp-AT- oz.net writes: << I hope someone comes up with a different name for it. >> How about "duckling walk"? Unless it brings up unpleasant Hans Christian Andersen associations for anyone -- not that it should, but you never know. "Single file" (c.f. Emma Rushton) -- without "Indian style" (in the interest of pc-ness) -- seems like a good solution -- if a prosaic one. And perhaps it would deter those wags who might be inclined to "walk like a...." Suzanne Ford ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:07:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:00:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: What a waste it is (Was: Performances gone awry ) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990805010022.955.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---adpete-AT- jps.net wrote: > > >> >Barbara Ruth wrote: > I announced that a small plane had crashed just minutes > >_before_ taking off. > > > I'll bail you out. It could have gone off the runway and crashed before taking > off. Thanks, but I think in that case the copy would have read something like "crashed at the end of the runway" or "just after leaving the runway". No, like our former vice president Dan Quayle, I stand by my misstatements. Barbara "Not Born in this Century" Ruth (Soon to be true!) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 18:34:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 21:34:53 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000001bedee2$b745e960$f098ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Eric -- Hilarious. Wonderful. If this were April 1....... Pat Ruggiero somewhere near Charlottesville, Va. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Eric Arnold Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 8:48 AM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up There certainly are instructions in some of the Playford editions that were invented along the way -- things like "First man takes out his snuffbox, takes a pinch, offers some to his Lady, who takes some..." and "First man points at the second woman's eyes, raises his hands in despair, and turns her..." (not the exact wording; this is from memory, but I'm not making it up -- look through the several editions of the Dancing Master at the Library of Congress' American Memories web site!) Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:28:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 22:28:10 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Making stuff up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37a920ea.4e8e.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Victoria Bestock wrote: > >I don't recall seeing "cloverleaf" turn singles anywhere in Playford. >Maybe they did them that way in Playford's time, but I suspect that its a >recent invention. Is the term post-Sharp, even if the figure isn't? > When Lyrl and I were learning ECD in the late 60's-early 70's, everything was turn single right unless specifically stated otherwise in the instructions. But then who knows what is right for sure? Andy in Portland ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:32:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:36:17 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990804233617.007a7680-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Its been fun reminiscing about all those years of performances, and of course, the more years, the more disaster stories. So here are a few of many, mostly from my days in Balkan and International dance companies: 1) The elastic of my tights quit and dropped a bit with every step. I ended the dance with the waistband below my knees, and the dress hem just two inches below that. 2) The tape broke mid show. The technician couldn't get it spliced, or threaded through, so we finished the show with no music. We hummed. The audience couldn't hear us, but it kept us dancers together. 3) A school hired us to do an hour show. We didn't find out until we got there that the "stage" was the gym floor, and it was rubberized. There is no way to chug, pivot, clog or slide on this surface, because the foot sticks to the floor the second it touches. It is totally silent, defeating the purpose of 3/4 of the dances in the show. The Croatian and Appalacchian suites were particularly awful. 4) I fell off the front of the stage when the line (in belt hold) pivoted. The stage was too short front-to-back to contain the whole line, and I was the end of the line. My neighbor saw what was about to happen, let go of HIS neighbor and grabbed my belt with both hands and hauled, just as I was propelled off over the orchestra pit. Then I flew off into empty air, sailed over the abyss of the orchestra pit, arcing toward the other side of the stage, and managed to get my toe onto the other side, 15 feet and two measures later. The audience thought it was neat. I didn't. 5) While spinning my hairpiece thwacked my partner in the face and flew off, sliding one long red braid with ribbon across the stage floor, exploding hairpins along the way that everyone then skidded on until the end of the suite. 6) Arrived at the theater to find that my costume for the last dance was cut out, but not sewn together. Every time anyone had a minute backstage between dances, they sewed a little more of it together. At intermission the bodice, skirt and sleeves were still in separate places. It looked mostly like a dress by the time I had to put it on, but there was no zipper in it yet, so the whole back was rapidly basted together on me, and I was shoved onstage before the stitches could be knotted. It unbasted during the finale, but we were all facing front by that point, and no one could see anything except that it flapped a bit from being too loose. 7- In one of my students' performances a father came in late, entering on stage! He walked across the stage threading his way among the dancers, and stood leaning against the wall where he accidentally shut off the lights. They were hallogen lights, which take about ten minutes to warm up once turned off, so the kids danced in the dark until the lights came on ten minutes later. 8) THere was a performance at NEFFA in a gym, where the gym floor was protected by a huge piece of linoleum. The dance had slipping circles one way and then the other, and our circle was so exactly together when we changed direction that when we shoved off into the new direction it set the linoleum spinning under us. Ever try to land on a rapidly rotating surface? Interesting sensation. 9-43) I have sprained a foot onstage and had to dance for 22 minutes on it, and once I got punched in the face by a dancer who turned around too early, just as I was trying to go through the arch he ws supposed to be making. I've been in performances where people broke bones, where the wrong music came on, where the dancer leading one line lost track of where front and back of the stage were, and did the whole second half of the dance on the wrong side of the stage facing the rear wall! There was the show where the curtain didn't come up more than two feet, and all the audience could see was from the knees down. I think a certain amount of this is normal, and every performing group has stories that are similar. The trick is to convince the audience that the disaster,or mistake, or whatever it is, was just what was supposed to happen. You want them to comment "That must have taken a lot of practice to have that lady fly across the orchestra pit like that." and "That was creative, raising the curtain just a few feet-- it really helped me focus on the Appalaccian footwork with no distractions." and "Boy, what interesting asymmetrical choreography -- I loved that part where the line was facing the back of the stage." 44) So one final true story. I had been to Bulgaria and brought back steps for a Women's Thracian dance never done in this country. I cast the director of the company in it, but she never came to the rehearsals because she was busy rehearsing the men, so she never learned the sequence. She made zillions of mistakes in performance, and danced with such energy and power that she pulled everyone else off balance. Afterwards I asked a friend how they liked my piece. "Oh, great!" said my friend, "But only that tall girl knew what she was doing." Victoria Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 00:10:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 00:08:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Not quite in the same category, but one night I was running sound for a concert, and toward the end of the first set a breaker blew with a bang, the left spotlight went out and the emergency light came on. The other engineer tried to reset the breaker, but it blew again. We decided to wait until intermission (I figured a dimmer had fried); after I'd checked the dimmer and found nothing wrong, a patron (on line for the loo) told me the little boy in the front row by the wall had gotten bored, and had been sticking paper clips in the electric socket. He was unscathed, but it took a while for us to get the socket cleaned out. It's taped up now. Thing is, I knew the kid; his older brother is one of my guitar students. Both of them spend a lot of time in the emergency room. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 04:40:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:39:29 -0400 From: Sharon A McKinley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: perfomance fiascos To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT i vowed i wasn't gonna add to this interesting vein, because my favorite story isn't about me (darn!), but i love it, so here. y'all can delete now if you want: a wonderful portuguese dance group was performing at a folk festival in hartford, around 1974-75 (yes, i really DID live there). they had 2 little kids, a boy and a girl, who would stand in front of the group and do a basic step while the rest of them twirled around doing the real thing (and were they GOOD!). in the middle of one number, i saw the boy's face looking panicked. he glanced at the girl, who stared back. the kid REALLY needed to go to the bathroom, but he didn't dare leave the stage during the dance. a moment later, a puddle appeared at his feet, which he proceeded to dance in until the number was over, at which point he FLEW off the stage into a parent's arms. poor thing. imagine being rooted to the spot. what a pro! hope he wasn't completely traumatized, and is still dancing somewhere! sharon "and THAT'S why i always visit the john immediately before a performance" mckinley, and not a purveyor of porta-pots for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 05:03:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:03:14 -0400 From: "Smith, Kent" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: goose walk To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <4BA51268AF86D1119DC30000F81FB0D3016C59E1-AT- exchange.cc.trincoll.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Scottish country dance devisers and teachers seem to be settling on "in a chase," as in "all 4 dancers circle clockwise in a chase," to distinguish it from taking hands in a circle. Kent Smith, Connecticut ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 07:35:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 06:52:11 +0100 From: mdevlin-AT- teleport.com (Mary Devlin) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From my Appalachian clogging days: The time we were dancing on TV and the floor was cement. It was very slick and had taps on -- was like dancing on ice -- and from time to time one of us would disappear as we hit the ground... In the "determined dancing" category -- Performing at the zoo during a concert intermission, the bluegrass band accompanying us didn't quite get the idea of _4_ potatoes... We started after four, they played 8, and we smiled a lot. And of course the inevitable stage problems -- the plywood stage that broke through in several places during performance. Thwacky thwack Thwacky th... The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather catwalk-like. It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step. Like clogging on a trampoline. Mary ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:02:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:04:06 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >And of course the inevitable stage problems -- the plywood stage that broke >through in several places during performance. Thwacky thwack Thwacky th... > > >The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather >catwalk-like. It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step. Like >clogging on a trampoline. or the "portable floor" placed directly onto muddy grass straight after a night of rain. Squelch squelch, turning into muddy little fountains coming up through the cracks. All our nice scottish white dresses got very bedraggled. There was another time when we were dancing on wet grass immediately after a jousting-display had finished. Mud skating rink. It's not supposed to rain much in Utah, I suppose we've been unlucky. At the same performance, I was put in charge of sound (being too pregnant to dance much). Nobody told me that the tape player was equipped with a variable speed control. It was quite something to see those gallant dancers doing Montgomery's Rant at double speed. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:38:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:37:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: FW: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990805163755.15473.rocketmail-AT- web110.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Peterson > Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 2:20 AM > To: Patricia Ruggiero > Subject: Re: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding > > You wrote: > > >I always start on the outside foot and I have always been able to > > achieve the snappy pivot. I agree, though, that it is this pivot > > that makes the figure exciting. Andy wrote: > The way I learned siding, there is no "pivot". The figure is done > with shoulders squared to your partner as in a gypsy except halfway > and back instead of all the way around. Some people have interpreted > it as passing your partner, then turning (pivoting) to face them. > This was certainly not the way Gay and Genny taught it when I first > went to Pinewoods thirty years ago. --- Patricia Ruggiero wrote: > The following is an excerpt from private correspondence between me > and Andy: > Your comment about siding is most instructive. I tried it and > found that it matches the feel of the historical figure of sides, > whereas pivot siding does not. Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only that, I remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's place, but only about 3/4 of the way over. Lyrl _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:27:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 13:26:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Chicoqueen-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Okay, okay... My partner's elbow knocked one of my teeth out as he whipped me around from the end of a four-in-line to a cozy-line during "Triskadecaphobia" at a contra dance in Santa Cruz several years ago. Quite the cautionary tale against horsing around to excess! Also a great example of why it's good to become a member of one's dance organization: our insurance covered everything from the emergency visit to the oral surgeon's office, the temporary "flipper" while the socket healed, and the reconstructive bridgework -- about $2300 all together -- at a time when I was an impoverished grad student. Despite the efforts of the oral surgeon to get it to reattach to my gums by wiring it into place within half an hour of the accident, the above-mentioned tooth ejected from it's socket *while* I was calling a contra-dance in Chico the following weekend. There was an unusually high percentage of newcomers that night, so I was obliged to continue prompting through much of each dance. The tooth socket had been quite traumatized, so I did the best I could to hold my tooth steady with my fingers pressed to my upper lip, to keep it from moving about as I conducted the walk-through's and as I called. There was no one else present who could call, so I felt obliged to continue in this fashion for the rest of the evening, which was more than half the dance. Worse yet, when I returned to the oral surgeon a few days later, he confessed that he hadn't realized how old I was (34 at the time) and hinted that he probably wouldn't have attempted saving the tooth if he had known I wasn't in my mid-20s. Goes to show that looking younger than your years isn't always an advantage, even after you're old enough to go dancing in bars. Three days later I took the all-day state board written exam for my acupuncturist's license -- with my #7 tooth missing. There's a few more tales I could share, but time is running short for preparations to fly to LA for a weekend of calling and dancing, with a 6-day backpacking trip to follow immediately. My kitchen is cluttered with ziplock bags full of dried goodies and whatnot, and my bed is covered with camping gear and dance clothes. I'll see if this thread is still going by the time I get back on the 16th. Heavenly performance alert! The Perseids meteor shower peaks next week, and with the benefit of the new moon (darker sky), astronomers predict a flashier show than usual. Find yourself a place away from the city lights to lay out your sleeping bag, and watch the fun! For more info, surf to: http://www.skypub.com/sights/skyevents/9908skyevents.html I'm hoping to view it from the top of a 10,000 foot peak. Bye for now, Reine Wonite Chico, CA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:45:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 12:45:01 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Performances gone awry To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37a9e9bd.1be3.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>From Mary Devlin: >The time we were dancing on TV and the floor was cement. It was very slick >and had taps on -- was like dancing on ice -- and from time to time one of >us would disappear as we hit the ground... I remember Reel Nutmeg doing a performance on a stage that was polished as slick as glass. Worst floor I've ever danced on. The school somehoow thought that they were getting the Mountain Laurel Cloggers as Jim Gregory was in both groups and he was the contact through someone else. The English and Early American dances that we did weren't what the kids had expected. Probably the only thing they remember from our entire performance was when Ira Laby slipped and landed flat on his back. It was a spectacular spill as he got a bit to rambunctious for the slick floor. > >In the "determined dancing" category -- > >Performing at the zoo during a concert intermission, the bluegrass band >accompanying us didn't quite get the idea of _4_ potatoes... We started >after four, they played 8, and we smiled a lot. > A couple of the Mountain Laurel Cloggers put together a routine to "Dueling Banjos" and the first time they performed it was at a bluegrass festival with a live band. The band didn't know the tune so they did the routine A Capella. Always talk to your band before the performance is planned. >The long, narrow stage made of some kind of metal and suspended rather >catwalk-like. It stayed up but boy did it bend with each step. Like >clogging on a trampoline. > Sounds like the same one Darren fell off the back of. Andy Peterson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:41:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 21:41:25 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding To: English Dance Message-ID: <000201bedfac$cb644e30$f898ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, Lyrl, You wrote: >Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only that, I remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's place, but only about 3/4 of the way over. Regarding pivot siding, as I learned it:: I suppose it is possible that some folks would march over and ignore their partners, but I was always taught that partners maintained eye contact throughout. I was also taught, as you say, NOT to go over to the partner's place but only partway. Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:36:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:34:49 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37AA9018.867AF017-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Emma Rushton wrote: > How do you do "face en face"? Face en face is a movement for two dancers having their backs on each other. They start by moving backwards, passing each other by the right, and then come forward passing each other by the left, finishing the movement where they started it. This movement can be found in: - Three Ladies Yard, by Cor Hogendijk - Winnie the Pooh's Cakewalk, by Fried de Metz - Impertinence, by Fried de Metz - and several other Fried's dances A few months ago I found a dance that had a movement "Front to back", by John Pike. Have a look at: http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/knighton/wyenot.htm Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:48:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:41:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: FW: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990806124102.645.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Lyrl Ahern wrote: > > Having learned ECD with Andy, "pivot" siding seems unfriendly, as > many people march over, turn around, and ignore you. Not only that, I > remember being taught that one did NOT go over to one's partner's > place, but only about 3/4 of the way over. > That is useful to know. I always have trouble making it over and back in the allotted time. Thanks for the information. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 05:59:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:58:51 -0400 (EDT) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up (Face en face) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 8/6/99 2:38:12 AM Central Daylight Time, Philippe.Callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be writes: " Face en face is a movement for two dancers having their backs on each other. They start by moving backwards, passing each other by the right, and then come forward passing each other by the left, finishing the movement where they started it." To add a bit to Philippe's description, the "face en face" is often found (at least in Fried's dances) in conjunction with a back-to-back, and the one feels like a reversal of the other. Let's say a face-en-face follows a back to back: the partners dance back to back, and at the end of the movement, without "adjusting" leftward to be directly face to face with partner (as one usually does), they pivot to face out of the set and then execute the "face en face" as described by Philippe above. Carol Martinez ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 07:18:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 09:18:14 -0400 From: Torbin Zimmerman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37AAE094.4EECE598-AT- mail.interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Conversation <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> with last message <37a7927f.2dd2.0-AT- jps.net> For what it's worth, Thomas Wilson published, in 1820, I believe, "The Complete System of English Country Dancing, Containing All the Figures Ever Used in English Country Dancing with a Variety of New Figures and New Reels..." I haven't researched which of his figures were new or if they actually appear in dances, but at least this indicates Wilson thought his audience was open to new figures. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 08:26:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 11:14:17 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Sharp Siding To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199908061126_MC2-7FF0-C8A7-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - to me, the friendliness of dancing with partners and/or a set rates very high! As I'm calling for beginners quite frequently, and since I myself can only demonstrate half a figure (a partner necessary for the other half), I had to think of another way of teaching Sharp siding. I ask the dancers to a) let their belly buttons smile at each other, and b) pretend that they are holding a barrel between them. That takes the emphasis away from 'which foot' and 'how to reverse directions'. I've been told that those images are memorable enough as to practice them... _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:11:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:10:49 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Making Stuff Up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000101bee02e$a16dfd10$5b98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT "Making stuff up" also occurs in the reconstruction of a dance's sequence of figures. The practice is not limited to dances with unclear instructions but to any dance the reconstructor deems unsuitable for any reason. Several elements of the 18th c. dance aesthetic have, consequently, been altered or eliminated. Pat Ruggiero hamlet of Wilmington between Charlottesville and Richmond, Va. -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of Philippe Callens Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 3:18 AM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up This may become quite a thread ... Marian! Heyer wrote: > I was mulling over the discussion about Sharp's "just making up" his earlier version of siding, and I started to wonder about something which I figure someone here will probably know about: > > Did other people before Sharp (dancing masters, presumably) make up new figures from time to time? Or were all the figures made up in Ye Olden Yon Days of Yore and then no one made up any new ones, they just recombined them into new dances? Is there evidence in the various editions of Playford of new figures appearing in later additions that weren't in the previous editions? > There certainly is! After all, in such a long period (c.1650-c.1820) things did not remain unchanged. And that's also true for steps, formation, music, ... For example compare Hearts Ease (Playford, 1651), Lille (Walsh, 1710) and Juliana (Wilson, 1814). Execution of figures changed, too: "rights and lefts" is an example of that. > And has anyone *since* Sharp made up any new figures? If so, what are some examples? Oh yes, although we, late 20th century ECD dancers, leaders, and choreographers, shouldn't think we invented it all. "Face en face" is probably a "new figure". Fried de Metz has used that movement a lot in her dances (although it also pops up in a Cor Hogendijk dance, published 1973). A figure sometimes becomes new when it is felt that it should be defined and named. Philippe Callens Antwerp, Belgium ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:39:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 13:40:04 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Circling without hands To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000201bee032$b7ada630$5b98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Phillippe wrote: >A few months ago I found a dance that had a movement "Front to back", by John Pike. Have a look at: http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/knighton/wyenot.htm That dance also has the "walking single file" figure, a recent thread on this list. Notice that John Pike simply calls in "circle...without hands." Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 08:05:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 17:11:48 +0200 From: Antony Heywood Subject: Re: Making Stuff Up To: "'Mailing List, ECD'" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <19990807150523.3B2D920F69-AT- iaehv.iae.nl> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Victoria Bestock wrote > Antony Heywood has used the very original > figure from the B1 of his Enrichez-Vous in another dance, so > it probably > constitutes a new figure, but he hasn't named it, leaving us > the problem of > explaining it each time to people who haven't seen it before. There was some discussion about teaching this figure about 11 months ago on the list and I tried out some of the ideas at a workshop last October without reaching any conclusion. Once dancers have grasped it, the figure is elegant and fun to do especially if the inactive corners wait until the last moment (last 2 bars in Enrichez Vous) before moving up/down so that they can catch the eye of the dancer coming round the corner. I didn't give the figure a name even though I used it in another dance (which? how did you know that Vicky?) because I didn't want it necessarily to be associated with me. Figures should be free for all to use. For those who haven't a clue what we're talking about, Enrichez Vous can be found in the following publications: English Dance and Song Summer 1992, Potters' Porch and Dutch Crossing. > ... circle left in single file called "goose walk" ... > there was a stunned silence at Mendocino this summer when Philippe used the term, and an > audible sigh of relief when he explained what he meant. Did Philippe explain that the Dutch (Flemish) expression for a single file circle is "gansepas" (goose step) and that this is entirely acceptable over here? Antony Heywood begin 666 winmail.dat M>)\^(-AT- T/`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!-AT- `(````Y 0```````#H``$(-AT- <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0-AT- 36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`0V ! `"`````-AT- `"``$& M-AT- ,`#-AT- ```,\'" `'`!$`"P````8`!P$!`Y &`!0)```G````"P`"``$````+ M`",```````,`)-AT- ``````"P`I```````#`#8``````!X`< `!````% ```%)E M.B!-86MI;F<-AT- 4W1U9F8-AT- 57 ``-AT- %Q``$````6`````;[-AT- YRLVR'X314S?$=.3 MV+Z1*YL+? ```-AT- $=# $````5````4TU44#I!3E1/3EE 24%%2%8N3DP````` M"P`!#-AT- ````! ``8.`!J:#N?-AT- O-AT- $"`0H.`0```!-AT- `````````F]D*G[,DTA&; ML0" 7_IL\\* ```#`!0.`0````L`'PX!`````P`&$)0J0M\#``<0J00``!X` M"! !````90```%9)0U1/4DE!0D535$]#2U=23U1%04Y43TY92$595T]/1$A! M4U5314142$5615)93U))1TE.04Q&24=54D5&4D]-5$A%0C%/1DA)4T5.4DE# M2$5:+59/55-)3D%.3U1(15)$04X``````-AT- $)$ $```#8! ``U 0``/X&``!, M6D9U)R6]>0,`"-AT- !R8W!G,3(U%C(`^ M-AT- ;-AT- X0,#,SG0'W( *D`^,"`&-H"L!-AT- M2!(96AY=V\$<" 1``0-AT- =8,1,!; M=&AE('8$D+L60!/Q9PN !T 5=F88($\(0`U(78T(Q%_!F8Q;0! `-AT- 16X% M$!#P9;AZ+58(8 0-AT- "X -AT- `' 7%. 7-AT- 7 9 !P8V4LJ"!S;Q5V:05 < --AT- 0%N%N)S\%0!A0 M!X 6P!U '(!L9?1A=-AT- N 9Q<1%787<6,*0"GR)]7>3QQ1'"01("9C( G %O!?)< A-!=R&04:<64AD&>S`' N M)&9U`Z ED60EH/L'D"7 8P -]'^*#%#$Y =H#5A&X$:IA44G1LR*2=E+'$AQ' O.+#^ M=P.-AT- '* 783!A%W$SD0.1_4& ="42%X$6<"]W-105%/T%H&TAT-AT- --AT- .% 75#KD M)]7[+H ID&0-AT- LA-AT- P-;$VJ1\QWR$!) `FD1=A"&!G)2 N-AT- &\7(QU!&XX5%"-AT- F M,!K1/R<6T$!P1<(-AT- >0A-AT- (&N/$N 'X$#C$[%K>3\_,O]!-AT- !4ED2=P&Z#_!! 4-AT- 8\ 6Q.4$E-AT- AIE M"K!S9# H8Y048'5P_S\P+D) Y1IQ-U([P6Q1%D#_`- <8 4P';$O<1>Q%10H MLKX_%1H5_!48:641\0!\T ,`$! ``````P`1$ `````+``" "" &``````# M````````1-AT- `````#A0````````,``H (( 8``````, ```````!&`````!"% M`````````P`(-AT- -AT- -AT- !-AT- ``````P ```````$8``````84````````#`!: "" & M``````# ````````1-AT- `````1A0````````,`'( (( 8``````, ```````!& M`````%*%``#P$P``'-AT- `=-AT- -AT- -AT- !-AT- ``````P ```````$8`````5(4```$````$ M````."XU``L`'H (( 8``````, ```````!&``````:%````````"P`B-AT- -AT- -AT- M!-AT- ``````P ```````$8`````#H4````````#`"2 "" &``````# ```````` M1-AT- `````8A0```````!X`,X (( 8``````, ```````!&`````#:%```!```` M`0`````````>`#2 "" &``````# ````````1-AT- `````WA0```0````$````` M````'-AT- `U-AT- -AT- -AT- !-AT- ``````P ```````$8`````.(4```$````!``````````L` M0( +( 8``````, ```````!&``````"(````````"P!"-AT- L-AT- !-AT- ``````P `` M`````$8`````!8-AT- ````````"`?-AT- /`0```! ```";V0J?LR32$9NQ`(!?^FSS M`-AT- 'Z#P$````0````F]D*G[,DTA&;L0" 7_IL\P(!^P\!````3 `````````X MH;L0!>40&J&[" `K*E;"``!M Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990807215141.17483.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---adpete-AT- jps.net wrote: > Great plug for NOMAD, which I would love to go to sometime, but the festival > I was at was a year or two before NOMAD was started and was in a city park in > Middletown. Well that explains why you had the city wrong :). NOMAD of course is in Newtown not Middletown. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 09:43:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:42:33 -0400 From: JHMTurner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To: ECD List Message-ID: <199908081242_MC2-8035-DA78-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT SET NOMAIL ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 11:02:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:47:52 -0400 From: catdancer-AT- juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: That Festival in Connecticut (was Performances gone awry (was Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990808.135436.-119729.12.catdancer-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT AHHH! NO!!! This can't be! Please, Lyrl, tell us this is a joke! Helen Tuzio On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Lyrl Ahern writes: > >> That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of >> music and dance in Connecticut. THIS Fall it will be taking place >> on the weekend of of November 5-7. I don't know if there will be >> any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we >> have got English! > >The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend >is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at >our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a >workshop/party on Saturday. > >Lyrl Ahern > >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:52:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:52:10 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: NOMAD & Boston Special Caller Weekend To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37addfea.59db.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry Helen, I meant to send this to the whole list. No joke, but the next Saturday (November 13) is the Portland English Ball with Friday night dance and Sunday brunch. Andy in Portland >AHHH! NO!!! This can't be! Please, Lyrl, tell us this is a joke! > >Helen Tuzio > > >On Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Lyrl Ahern >writes: >> >>> That festival was of course NOMAD, the annual fall festival of >>> music and dance in Connecticut. THIS Fall it will be taking place >>> on the weekend of of November 5-7. I don't know if there will be >>> any snakes making an appearance this year, but I can tell you we >>> have got English! >> >>The conflict is sad but unavoidable: Boston's Special Caller Weekend >>is the same time. This year our featured caller is Bruce Hamilton, at >>our regular First Friday Experienced dance in Brookline and at a >>workshop/party on Saturday. >> >>Lyrl Ahern >> ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 16:48:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:48:10 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs) To: ECD_LIST Message-ID: <199908081948_MC2-8046-AEA0-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT If I may exploit the bandwidth of our forum to answer a couple of frequently asked questions coming my way (and save myself lots of typing!)... 1. You can obtain the just-released Bare Necessities "Favorites of the Boston Centre" CD by: a. Buying it from one of the BN's themselves or me if we're at an event you are attending. b. Buying it at the Pinewoods bookstore. c. Ordering it from the Boston Centre at: CDS Boston Centre 1950 Massachusetts Avenue Cambridge, MA 02140 (617) 354-1340 d. Ordering it from the CDSS at: Sales Department CDSS 132 Main Street, PO Box 338 Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 (413) 268-7426 sales-AT- cdss.org 2. The dances/tunes appearing on the 2nd CD "More Favorites of the Boston Centre" to be released in October are: Lilliburlero Up With Aily Bonny Cuckoo Trip to Paris Punchbowl Kelsterne Gardens Dublin Bay Fair and Softly From Aberdeen Wibsey Roundabout Elverton Grove Bellamira Prince William Smithy Hill 3. Tentative titles/subjects for CD's #3 and #4 are "Simple Pleasures" [easy ECD's] and "Modern Treasures" [contemporary ECD's]. Thanks for your attention, and for your past and future ideas. We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming.... Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Caller, Musician, sometime Producer ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 06:56:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 09:56:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Pearl Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199908091356.JAA08326-AT- alta.sw.stratus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Just a slight correction on what Gene posted... >c. Ordering it from the Boston Centre... CDS Boston is NOT doing retail sales at this time. We are doing wholesale bulk orders to bona fide dealers at this time. These are the dealers who can handle your order: Anglo-American Dance Service (BELGIUM) aads-AT- village.uunet.be http://gallery.uunet.be/aads/ Country Dance and Song Society (Massachusetts, USA) sales-AT- cdss.org http://www.cdss.org/ Folk Arts Center of New England (Massachusetts, USA) fac-AT- facone.org http://www.facone.org/ Cotswold Music Society (ENGLAND) cotswoldmusic-AT- ndirect.co.uk http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~cotswoldmusic/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 15:06:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:06:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Wed. Aug. 11: English dance in Princeton, NJ To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Attention dance-starved New Yorkers, Philadelphians, and anyone passing through the region: the Princeton Country Dancers keep dancing all summer in an air-conditioned hall. This Wednesday, August 11, we present an English dance with the unusual (for us) inclusion of a harpsichord in the band. When: 8-10:30 p.m. Where: Suzanne Patterson Center, behind Princeton Borough Hall near intersection of Routes 206 and 27 (Stockton and Nassau Streets) Caller: Sue Dupre Band: Richard Fischer, Tom Gibney, Susie Lorand, and Janet Palumbo Janet Palumbo performs and records Baroque music with the local period-instrument ensemble Triomphe de l'Amour (which appeared at the Boston Early Music Festival in June). We're very pleased that she's now playing harpsichord and piano for ECD. The rest of us play recorders and modern fiddles, among other things. Check the PCD web page for more info., or e-mail me at srl-AT- princeton.edu. - Susie Lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:41:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:38:13 -0700 From: South Bay English Country Dance Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: re: New Bare Necessities recordings (non-FAQs) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990809233813.00919258-AT- pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT After giving the new BN's CD several hours of good use, I was left with a nagging, and probably not-frequently-asked, question. The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the woods (L.A.). Could someone share the instructions for it? Especially now that a good recording is available, I have been itching to give it a solo try in the living room, and then (if suitable) inflict it upon the band and the regular crowd. Thank you for any help you can provide. Giovanni De Amici ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:01:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:01:40 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000301bee2d4$49660740$4798ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, Giovanni, I remember dancing it with you! About 10 years ago, at Dan's dance, in Silver Spring, Md. The dance and music are in Between Two Ponds, now collected in Pat Shaw's Pinewoods, available (I assume) from CDSS. Pat Ruggiero no longer in the Washington, D.C. area -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [mailto:owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of South Bay English Country Dance Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 7:38 PM To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Subject: re: New Bare Necessities recordings (non-FAQs) After giving the new BN's CD several hours of good use, I was left with a nagging, and probably not-frequently-asked, question. The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the woods (L.A.). Could someone share the instructions for it? Especially now that a good recording is available, I have been itching to give it a solo try in the living room, and then (if suitable) inflict it upon the band and the regular crowd. Thank you for any help you can provide. Giovanni De Amici ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 19:46:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 22:46:19 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Quite Carr-ied Away, for Joan Carr To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT triple minor A1 1s and 2s crcl 1/2 and pass thru (ax set) 1s b-to-b along line (M up with 2nd M, L down w/ 3rd L) end facing ptnr A2 1s crcl with the cpl at the other end of the set whole set (this looks so neat!) b-to-b ptnr (1s in middle, all prop) B1 1s r-hnd trn all the way (4 bars, very spacious) 1M 1/2 hey up with 2s while 1L 1/2 hey down with 3s, interrupt hey with r-hnd trn person of opposite sex in that couple, then 1s back in the middle position pass by left shoulder DON'T TOUCH (maybe Hole-in-the-Wall type cross over) to be improp. All improp, still 2,1,3. B2 1s r-hnd trn all the way then hey at the other end (1M down, 1L up), finishing hey with r-hnd trn w/ person of opp sex in that couple, then 1s pass by l shldr and reach down for new circle at beginning of the next round. A great ones dance, but requires real carriage and complete alertness on the part of the other two couples. Very spacious and leisurely (sp) especially across the set. Not for a crowded room! In Boston we do this with a waltz step - a "dip, level, level" movement of the body. And remember Helene's exhortations to keep moving forward all the time, all 3 steps the same length and always moving forward. As Nibs said: "keep the egg out of the egg cup!" Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:08:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 13:19:45 -0500 (EST) From: GAFF-AT- neu.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fall Favorites dance in Boston To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JELQ595R7E8WZH0W-AT- neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This year the Boston Centre's Fall Favorites dance is coming early. Due to scheduling problems with our band, it will be held on Saturday September 25 at the Park Avenue Congregational Church, Park Avenue and Paul Revere Road, Arlington Heights, MA. The leader will be Helene Cornelius, the musicians Mary Lea and Jacqueline Schwab, and the admission price $8 in advance and $10 at the door. As usual, those registering in advance may nominate five dances for inclusion in the program. The program will be made up primarily of the dances which receive the largest number of votes. (Your picks may wind up on some future CD!) Those wishing to register in advance should send checks for $8.00 per dancer made out to CDS, Boston Centre, along with their dance nominations to Arthur Ferguson. his address is: 31 Ledgewood Road Framingham, MA 01701-3626 To be included in the program your nominations should reach Arthur by September 20. Best, Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:25:16 -0700 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities recordings (FAQs) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sun, 08 Aug Gene Murrow wrote: >1. You can obtain the just-released Bare Necessities "Favorites of the >Boston Centre" CD by: > >a. Buying it from one of the BN's themselves or me if we're at an event you >are attending. I would like to add that you may get it from me at events I attend in the Northwest. In the next while look for it at: WFF (Seattle) in August, Suttle Lake camp in Sept, Portland and Seattle Balls in November and January. No mail order. All profits go to Bare Necessities. Anyone from Vancouver on the list? Write to me privately and we can figure out a way to get some up there. Laurie Buchanan Dance Gypsy and sometime purveyor of fine tunes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 10:38:14 -0700 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 09 Aug Giovanni De Amici wrote: >The dance "quite carried away" might well be a popular and favourite of the >Boston area, but in several (15) years of dancing on the sunnny coast of the >US, I do not remember ever meeting it. Furthermore, a quick poll of my >fellow dancers revealed that it is completely unknown in our neck of the >woods (L.A.). Hi Giovanni, Were you at the BACDS Fall Weekend several years ago (when it was still at La Honda) with Helene Cornelius? She taught it there and Jenny Beer picked it up, so we occasionally danced it on Wednesdays at the old Oakland location. Maybe you danced it there. It has been on the Seattle and perhaps the Portland ball programs in the past, too. Wonderful dance. Do put it on your teaching list. Laurie in Eugene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:20:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 12:20:05 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away, for Joan Carr To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37b07b65.350d.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > >As Nibs said: "keep the egg out of the egg cup!" > I remember Genny Shimer saying that almost thirty years ago. Andy in Portland ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:31:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:30:26 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <85e40f35.24e20202-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment, which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'? Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:04:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:04:11 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 6:30 PM -0400 8/10/99, SallenNic-AT- aol.com wrote: >There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment, >which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on >this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright >on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'? > Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland. well, it's a toss up between waiting to get the instructions and then trying to decipher them from the book, which in the case of Pat is relatively easy, or getting a jump start on the process from the list. In US law, currently, web appearance is still considered publication, though, not fair use. Anybody want to address this question from CDS, CDS-BC and PS-S estate? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:24:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JELWITK8CO9UNOOT-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nicolas writes: There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment, which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'? I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do know about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law. So take this for what it's worth, which isn't much: I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance, rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods." As far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since copyright inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words themselves. Since you can't copyright titles - thus, there's both a Rogers & Hart and a Jerome Kern "On A Desert Island With You" - and the words are different and the music isn't included, we don't have a copyright violation. My general feelings about putting dance notation on this list: Courtesy to living authors demands that we don't post their work without their permission. (If I'm having problems with sussing out a dance - as, in fact, I did with this very dance a couple of years ago - I may excerpt the particular portion I'm having problems with, like the 'B1' portion; this seems fair to me, since it doesn't give the whole dance directions to anyone who doesn't have them.) If dances are still in copyright and being posted by someone who doesn't have specific permission of the copyright holder, I would prefer that the notation not be posted to the list. (You can always email the requestor privately - and then the dance isn't in the web archive). But I'm not very much upset by it unless, as I say, it's a living author. It appears that dances in the contra community are likelier to propagate through caller card exchanges and callers simply noting down dances they liked; other's people's contras show up regularly on rec.folk-dancing, and this seems to be perfectly okay for them. [This may both be because most contras don't call for a specific tune and because many contra choreographers don't publish.] But ECD choreographers and reconstructors often do publish, and to make it worth their while - or at least somewhat less thankless - we should buy their books if we plan to use their dances, at least if those books are in print. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:57:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:56:02 -0500 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003101bee3ad$e9540e80$f2e5490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JELWITK8CO9UNOOT-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a program (and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or three months ahead) and each dance is in a different book, it might take ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that are out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to $200 just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission charges for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of my experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar situation. Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law 1436 W.Gray, #134 Houston, TX 77019-4946 web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away > > Nicolas writes: > > There is an interesting "Copyright" thread on 'Strathspey' at the moment, > which left me wondering whether putting instructions for the above dance on > this forum constitutes a breach of the Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 's 1985 copyright > on the text of all of 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods'? > > I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do know > about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law. So > take this for what it's worth, which isn't much: > > I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance, > rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods." As > far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since copyright > inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words > themselves. Since you can't copyright titles - thus, there's both a > Rogers & Hart and a Jerome Kern "On A Desert Island With You" - and the words > are different and the music isn't included, we don't have a copyright > violation. > > My general feelings about putting dance notation on this list: Courtesy > to living authors demands that we don't post their work without their > permission. (If I'm having problems with sussing out a dance - as, in > fact, I did with this very dance a couple of years ago - I may excerpt > the particular portion I'm having problems with, like the 'B1' portion; > this seems fair to me, since it doesn't give the whole dance directions > to anyone who doesn't have them.) > > If dances are still in copyright and being posted by someone who doesn't > have specific permission of the copyright holder, I would prefer that > the notation not be posted to the list. (You can always email the > requestor privately - and then the dance isn't in the web archive). But > I'm not very much upset by it unless, as I say, it's a living author. > > It appears that dances in the contra community are likelier to propagate > through caller card exchanges and callers simply noting down dances they > liked; other's people's contras show up regularly on rec.folk-dancing, > and this seems to be perfectly okay for them. [This may both be because > most contras don't call for a specific tune and because many contra > choreographers don't publish.] > > But ECD choreographers and reconstructors often do publish, and to make > it worth their while - or at least somewhat less thankless - we should > buy their books if we plan to use their dances, at least if those books > are in print. > > -- Alan > > > ============================================================================ === > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 > ============================================================================ === > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:01:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:00:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JEM6VPQL36A9KZOR-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dianna Shipman writes: ----------- One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a program (and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or three months ahead) and each dance is in a different book, it might take ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that are out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to $200 just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission charges for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of my experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar situation. ----------- Welcome to the list, Dianna! I don't know if it's standard all around the world. Here on the West Coast, and apparently in New York as well, the organizers of English balls get appropriate permissions from living authors and publish booklets (and sometimes web sites) with dance directions for the selected dances. The booklets are sent out to pre-registered attendees of the ball. This handles the problem fairly effectively. What do the Scots do? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:49:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:50:54 -0500 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <007d01bee3b5$1ccf83a0$f2e5490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JEM6VPQL36A9KZOR-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Scots similar - but sometimes the booklets with the descriptions are not ready to be mailed out until only 2 -4 weeks before the event (no matter how far ahead you send in your money) and that is not enough time to learn all the dances. Most devisors of dances that I know of don't seem bothered by the copyright issue and just want acknowledgment for devising a fun dance - they wrote them to be danced - and the small income (even if everyone bought a book) is so insignificant to them that it just doesn't seem to matter - oddly enough the devisors of the largest numbers of popular dances seem the least bothered and the few that I've come across who make such a fuss usually have written dances that aren't all that appealing any way - a question we discussed on the Scottish list that may one day be practical is to have a central clearing house of dance descriptions available by email that you set up an account with credit card or deposit and pay a small fee for each dance description requested with the clearing house distributing appropriate amounts to the devisors of dances, say once a year, with some sort of computerized system that automatically tabulates - this might increase income since even if you own the book doesn't mean you can find it when you need it for a dance description for a social or ball. Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law 1436 W.Gray, #134 Houston, TX 77019-4946 web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 11:00 PM Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away > Dianna Shipman writes: > > ----------- > One problem I find recurs is if I want to learn all the dances for a program > (and info on what dances are on a program is only made available two or > three months ahead) and each dance is in a different book, it might take > ordering (which may take a long time in some cases, esp. for items that are > out of print or back ordered) - 20 books at $5 - $10 per book - $100 to $200 > just to get descriptions of 20 dances (and this on top of admission charges > for a ball and travel expenses) - this seems excessive and unreasonable to > me - and doesn't encourage more dancing (and the fewer dancers the fewer > people to buy any books) - I'm new to English country dancing and most of my > experience has been with Scottish but it appears to be a similar situation. > ----------- > > Welcome to the list, Dianna! > > > I don't know if it's standard all around the world. Here on the West Coast, > and apparently in New York as well, the organizers of English balls get > appropriate permissions from living authors and publish booklets (and sometimes > web sites) with dance directions for the selected dances. The booklets are > sent out to pre-registered attendees of the ball. This handles the problem > fairly effectively. > > What do the Scots do? > > > -- Alan > > > ============================================================================ === > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 > ============================================================================ === > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:39:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:39:05 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I am not a lawyer, I am not a copyright specialist, and what little I do know >about copyright is from US law and may be totally wrong for European law. So >take this for what it's worth, which isn't much: > >I'm under the impression that Emily posted her own notation of the dance, >rather than a direct quotation of the words in "Pat Shaw's Pinewoods." As >far as I can tell, that makes this not a copyright violation, since copyright >inheres in the tangible expression of the idea -- that is, the words >themselves. I have a book of my own, called One Caller's Cards, in which I have condensed the instructions for about 500 dances down to something akin to what a caller might use to prompt, or "teach" the dance. Each card contains a 2 or 3 bar citation of the melody, enough to remind the caller, also at the top a clear citation to the original source publication, as well as a field for level of difficulty starting at easiest = 1, hardest = 6. I drew my ever-so-slightly fleshed out instructions for the dance from that, rather than going to the source. BUT - to me a good ECD caller always goes to the source first when preparing for the dance, or at least always when preparing a new dance card to call from. Amazing the mistakes that creep in when you don't. I've seen people call who have never looked at the original and the dances have all kinds of little mistakes in them. If you're going to lead dancing, you need to own as many publications as you can possibly afford, and prepare your calling cards from them. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:13:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:13:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Completely Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm somewhat amazed at the pc-type enthusiasm for supporting the exact letter of a law (the US copyright law) which was clearly written with not one iota of consideration for the subject to which it is being applied. Copyright law, it seems to me, masquerades as protecting "intellectual property" and purportedly protects the small guy from abuses of such property. But, realistically speaking, the only ones that it really protects are the ones who can afford to prosecute. I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians, composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared). Specific types of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and distribution, such as any commercial use. While defining such a boundary would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more appropriate place than where it presently resides. Recordings and publications could have explicit statements permitting "approved" use which could be broader than currently permitted under copyright law. I feel very strongly that we would not benefit over-all from an ASCAP-type setup regulating the use and providing for the collection of payments, and the distribution of some fraction of them to the publishers of the material. The only ones who really benefit from this are the large operators and the system of leeches who siphon off their fraction of the total for their "service." I feel that for most of us who are involved in the creative processes that produce new country dances and music, the primary purpose is to get the dances out there to be danced and enjoyed. Recognition for the work is nice but secondary for me, at least; others have to speak for themselves. The main protection that we need is blatant misuse of the intellectual rights for commercial purposes; I certainly don't feel that the word-of mouth copying of dance instructions from another caller at dances violates the spirit in which the dance is offered, and I would like to see this idea recognized as a legitimate way of distributing the material. Similarly, I feel that individual copying of instructions and music with copiers, either for dancers to learn or for callers to use in this spirit, is also in the general interest and a statement allowing such use could be included by those who feel similarly. A general policy appropriate for the purposes of using these dance materials most evffectively might be drafted, say, by CDSS, or by some representatives of several different interested groups; they might establish several different levels of permitted use, depending on the creator's wishes, and one could state that permission is granted for use at some level, with possible exceptions and/or additions to that specification. Conditions for use might, for example, change when a document becomes out-of-print, and again if it is reprinted. Please note that I have no problem at all with the idea of buying the published works when they are available. In fact, I buy practically everything I can get my hands on in my area of interest, rather broadly defined. I want this material to be available, and I don't begrudge the publishers of this material the right to recover their costs in making it available plus an additional amount for the time and effort that they put into it. But I certainly don't expect my dancers to do the same. It is interesting to note that, in most areas of discussion about dance, writers are reluctant to tell others what they _should_ do. Certainly at the level of one dancer helping another, gentle hints are much more welcoming and effective than "you should do this"... Similarly, at the level of training other leaders, the best advice seems to be to lead by example, but to let people find their own approaches for themselves, without "should." Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over what I or you _should_ do. Is this really out of the realm where I should think for myself? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:45:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:44:21 -0700 From: South Bay English Country Dance Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Quite Carr-ied Away (or Joan Transported) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990811164421.0291aae0-AT- pop.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Laurie. no, I was not at that camp, and really do not remember ever dancing this dance (or tune). Pat Ruggiero instead remembers dancing it with me, which can only means one thing: I am getting old and my memory is failing :-(((. Alas, so many dances, so little time. Happy dancing. Giovanni (near Los Angeles) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:26:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:23:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Eric Arnold wrote: > Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over > what I or you _should_ do. Is this really out of the realm where I should > think for myself? Yes, for two reasons: 1) The law is there, and you could get sued if you decide to make your own rules. 2) If you decide to make your own rules, you're essentially deciding to turn someone else's property into public property, and that's not your choice to make. If an artist chooses to make the material freely available for use (and most dance-makers do), well and good, and I'm all for it, but it's their choice, not yours. "Never get between a worker and his bread." - Utah Phillips Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:21:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:20:06 -0500 From: Dianna Shipman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <005801bee42e$efebf740$f2f8490c-AT- pavilion> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: I agree that some guidelines on use of materials on a more reasonable basis would be a great idea. I'm new to English and recently was told that English has about 500 dances while Scottish has 9000 so maybe the problems are a bit different. What puzzles me in the copyright discussion is why people seem so fearful - worst possible case - even if you were sued and lost it seems unlikely that a plaintiff would be able to claim or prove much in the way of damages since there's so little profit in publishing dances anyway. Dianna L. Shipman diannashipman-AT- worldnet.att.net Dianna L. Shipman, P.C., Attorney at Law 1436 W.Gray, #134 Houston, TX 77019-4946 web page: http://home.att.net/~diannashipman phone: 713-522-1212 ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Arnold To: Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 10:13 AM Subject: Completely Carr-ied Away > I'm somewhat amazed at the pc-type enthusiasm for supporting the exact > letter of a law (the US copyright law) which was clearly written with not > one iota of consideration for the subject to which it is being applied. > > Copyright law, it seems to me, masquerades as protecting "intellectual > property" and purportedly protects the small guy from abuses of such > property. But, realistically speaking, the only ones that it really > protects are the ones who can afford to prosecute. > > I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians, > composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are > better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at > least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for > the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music > for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these > dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared). Specific types > of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and > distribution, such as any commercial use. While defining such a boundary > would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more > appropriate place than where it presently resides. > > Recordings and publications could have explicit statements permitting > "approved" use which could be broader than currently permitted under > copyright law. I feel very strongly that we would not benefit over-all > from an ASCAP-type setup regulating the use and providing for the > collection of payments, and the distribution of some fraction of them to > the publishers of the material. The only ones who really benefit from > this are the large operators and the system of leeches who siphon off > their fraction of the total for their "service." > > I feel that for most of us who are involved in the creative processes that > produce new country dances and music, the primary purpose is to get the > dances out there to be danced and enjoyed. Recognition for the work is > nice but secondary for me, at least; others have to speak for themselves. > The main protection that we need is blatant misuse of the intellectual > rights for commercial purposes; I certainly don't feel that the word-of > mouth copying of dance instructions from another caller at dances violates > the spirit in which the dance is offered, and I would like to see this > idea recognized as a legitimate way of distributing the material. > > Similarly, I feel that individual copying of instructions and music with > copiers, either for dancers to learn or for callers to use in this spirit, > is also in the general interest and a statement allowing such use could be > included by those who feel similarly. A general policy appropriate for > the purposes of using these dance materials most evffectively might be > drafted, say, by CDSS, or by some representatives of several different > interested groups; they might establish several different levels of > permitted use, depending on the creator's wishes, and one could state that > permission is granted for use at some level, with possible exceptions > and/or additions to that specification. Conditions for use might, for > example, change when a document becomes out-of-print, and again if it is > reprinted. > > Please note that I have no problem at all with the idea of buying the > published works when they are available. In fact, I buy practically > everything I can get my hands on in my area of interest, rather broadly > defined. I want this material to be available, and I don't begrudge the > publishers of this material the right to recover their costs in making it > available plus an additional amount for the time and effort that they put > into it. But I certainly don't expect my dancers to do the same. > > It is interesting to note that, in most areas of discussion about dance, > writers are reluctant to tell others what they _should_ do. Certainly at > the level of one dancer helping another, gentle hints are much more > welcoming and effective than "you should do this"... Similarly, at the > level of training other leaders, the best advice seems to be to lead by > example, but to let people find their own approaches for themselves, > without "should." Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over > what I or you _should_ do. Is this really out of the realm where I should > think for myself? > > Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor > > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:22:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:21:50 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37b1cd4e.4792.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Eric Arnold wrote: > <> > >I question whether our best interests as dancers, leaders, musicians, >composers and choreographers of English country dances and dance music are >better served by slavishly attempting to follow this law precisely, at >least in public show, than they would be by devising their own policy for >the free public use and distribution of the dance instructions and music >for the intended purpose: namely, to dance in the context that these >dances usually appear (and traditionally have appeared). Specific types >of propogation could be specifically excluded from such free use and >distribution, such as any commercial use. While defining such a boundary >would require some care, at least it would place such a boundary at a more >appropriate place than where it presently resides. > Is it considered commercial use for a performing group, such as ones I have been a member of, to perform a dance and be paid what amounts to gas money for the performance? Should those performances be subject to paying the creator of the dance some pittance? I know that many of the Scandinavian dances that Nordlys does have been learned at workshops and brought home and taught to the group. The music is a recording of a recording or possibly taken off a video tape from the workshop (usually less than ideal quality). Are we violating the copyright of someone that we don't even know by the public performance of this dance without at least giving credit to the creator? If a singer or musician performs some published work in a concert while earning their living, do they pay royalties for every song they sing? Should a composer be paid royalties every time a band plays one of their tunes at a dance? Who could possibly police this?? Certainly if one were to compile a collection of dance tunes or dances and put them into a book with the intent of selling that book, the composer or choreographer of every item must give permission for such use and each must make the decision as to what compensation they desire. I think many that I know want their works out there for the enjoyment of the dance community and would consider that as long as their efforts are properly credited that would be compensation enough. I know that Portland Country Dance Community has published a book of tunes for contra dancing and extreme effort was put forth to find the original source for every tune and give credit to the composer. In some cases tunes were thought, by the folk process, to be by a certain person and were found to be written by somone else. Some tunes thought to be public domain were found not to be. I don't know what agreements PCDC might have with any of the composers other than giving them credit in the book. The price of the book is certainly not making any huge proffits for PCDC and probably doesn't do much more than pay for the costs involved. Andy in Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 12:33:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Completely Carr-ied Away To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Paul J. Stamler wrote: > On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Eric Arnold wrote: > > > Yet in this copyright discussion, I hear over and over > > what I or you _should_ do. Is this really out of the realm where I should > > think for myself? > > Yes, for two reasons: > > 1) The law is there, and you could get sued if you decide to make your > own rules. All the more reason that I should think for myself, it seems. But why are you assuming that I'm "making my own rules"? I talked about people getting together to make their own rules about their own stuff, to suit their own purposes. > 2) If you decide to make your own rules, you're essentially deciding to > turn someone else's property into public property, and that's not your > choice to make. If a