Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:04:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 08:04:35 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: BALTIMORE PLAYFORD BALL
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s77b2120.026-AT-
loc.gov>
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ECD afficionados:
Crass Ball Advertising:

                     BALTIMORE PLAYFORD BALL
Don't miss the Baltimore Playford Ball. It's Sat., Oct. 2, 1999. It
features great dancing, music by Marty Taylor, Steve Hickman, and
Dave Wiesler, and a festive "tea" catered by the famous Bertha's of
Fells
Point (no mussels, tho. sorry). $20 for members and CDSS members,
$24 for others. Come on down and join us for a wonderful evening!

for more info, email me at smckinley-AT-
loc.gov, or call me at
410-740-3250
  sharon "ball chair for life?" mckinley, and not an official ball
purveyor for any govenment agency, but surely for local folk
societies

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:41:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen D Corrsin <sdc16-AT-
columbia.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: yoo hoo, mr listowner
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907011237040.25596-100000-AT-
sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu>
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I tried to unsubscribe and couldn't. Regardless, please strike my name
from the list of the righteous. I'm packing up my office now preparatory
to driving (at last) to Michigan. 

Anyone who wants to reach me out west: 5166 Patrick Rd., West Bloomfield,
Mich. 48322 (248)661-6283. 

I'll probably re-enlist when I get set up way out there. I just can't wait
for the next time "clapping in Petronella" comes up.

best
Steve Corrsin

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:01:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:04:11 -0500
From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: yoo hoo, mr listowner
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005d01bec3e3$bdebeae0$a222a3d1-AT-
gloria>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--snip--
>I'll probably re-enlist when I get set up way out there. I just
can't wait
>for the next time "clapping in Petronella" comes up.

That reminds me.  I had an amusing Petronella clapping situation.

I was at the MWSD Nationals, and wandered over to see what
MWSD-contras were like.  It was a time warp back to what I've
heard the '40's might have been like, with most of the exuberance
removed and some problems with phrasing.

The stereotype: MWSDers are the people in crinolines (for the
women), have matching outfits for couples, and sometimes travel
as a caravan of RV's.  They do mostly squares, but also "cued"
rounds, contras, clogging, and line-dancing.  Virtually all
dancing is done to canned music.

Anyway, they did a Petronella that was not quite the
really-traditional only-actives, but there was no hand holding in
the diamond during the balances.

They all clapped at the beginning of the balances, while I
clapped in that annoying just-before-the-hand holding and
balances.  It actually sounded nice.

Gloria Krusemeyer


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:52:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:56:40 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Seattle Ball date
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990702195640.007a4100-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Seattle English Country Ball will be held on Saturday, January 22, 2000. 

There will be the usual festivities associated with it-- a dance on Friday
night, a workshop on Saturday afternoon, a brunch on Sunday.

Please note that this is NOT the Martin Luther King weekend, but the
weekend after MLK.  We wanted to alert you about the change of date before
you purchased plane tickets.  

For more information, contact

Paul Bestock
509 Lake WA Blvd East
Seattle WA, 98112

phone 206-329-7289
e-mail bestockp-AT-
oz.net

Victoria Bestock 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:05:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [fwd from Marti Sterin] A Star is Born
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JD3W1BI2HE90NSOS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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From: Marti Sterin <samrah-AT-
together.net>

I just received the following from David Barnert who many of you know.
However since he said ".....I'm resisting the temptation to post the news to
several mailing lists."  I, who have no such resistance am passing this
along.  Here is his message:

David's note:

I'm very excited.

The news (!) :

I will be the featured on-air puzzle player on National Public
Radio's Weekend Edition Puzzle this coming Sunday, July 4th. We
finished taping the segment by phone a few moments ago (Friday).

This is neat!

Background:

For those unfamiliar with the program, National Public Radio (NPR)
has a news/information program called "Weekend Edition" that airs
across the country and overseas. On Saturday, it is hosted by
Scott Simon, and on Sunday it is hosted by Liane Hansen. Every
week, on the Sunday program, there is a 15-minute segment where
"Puzzlemaster" Will Schortz (Crossword puzzle editor of the New
York Times) reviews and answers last week's puzzle, presents an
on-air puzzle (a series of tricky word-play questions) by phone
hook-up to a randomly chosen listener who sent in the correct
answer to last week's puzzle, and then presents a new puzzle for
the coming week.

I send in answers maybe once every month or two. Last week's
puzzle was very easy. I got it as soon as I heard it. I was
randomly chosen from approximately 1200 (or did he say 12,000?)
correct entries.

The details:

"Weekend Edition Sunday" is a two hour program that is broadcast
at different times by different stations. It's usually in the
morning, but here in Albany it starts at noon. In addition, the
two hours are interchangeable. Not all stations broadcast them in
the same order, and some stations repeat one or both of the hours
throughout the morning (ABA or ABAB or ABABAB, etc.).

The puzzle segment always happens at about 40+ minutes after the
hour, and it's the hour that starts with the "Voices in the News"
segment right after the hourly news.

<snip>


Check the NPR web site http://www.npr.org/members/ for local
stations elsewhere. Then find out from your station (web site or
phone or program guide) when "Weekend Edition Sunday" is on.

Listen for me either 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes into the
show, during the hour that (at 6 minutes after) starts with "These
were some of the voices in the news this past week." The puzzle is
always introduced with something like "You're listening to Weekend
Edition. This is Liane Hansen and joining us is Puzzlemaster Will
Schortz..." In Boston, it's WBUR (90.9 FM) at 8:40 and 10:40. In
New York City, it's WNYC (93.9 FM) at 8:40 and 10:40.

Complete information about "Weekend Edition Sunday" is posted at
http://www.npr.org/programs/wesun/ and there's a link there to the
puzzle. After the broadcast, there will also be a link so you can
hear it on the web. Another link directs you to a newsgroup where
you can read a summary.

<snip>

Let's all listen in and cheer him on!

Marti Sterin
samrah-AT-
together.net




===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 22:54:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 23:47:44 -0600
From: William DeRagon <wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990703.234745.-832245.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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"It is a sad, but indisputable fact that the older collections of
country-dances have now yielded all or almost all that they are likely to
yield.  Eighteenth century dance-books indeed continue to turn up, with
here and there a tune or an isolated dance-figure which seems worth
preserving; but -- failing some unforeseen piece of good luck -- there is
little prospect of more."  - Marjorie Heffer and William Porter, Preface
to "Maggot Pie", 1932.

While 'not quite' true in 1932, is this any 'more' true now?

Heffer & Porter were basing their opinion on the 'modern' publications
to-date:  Sharp's ECD series, 'The New Series' by Douglas & Helen
Kennedy, "Twelve Traditional Country Dances" by Maud Karpeles & Ralph
Vaughan Williams, and their own (along with Arthur Heffer) "Apted Book". 
I see their statement as 'not quite' true because of the many wonderful
historic dances (re)interpreted since 1932.  CD*NY's list of repertoire
dances is a useful gauge:  43 of those 50 dances date from 1801 or
earlier (perhaps 45, depending on the vintages of Morpeth Rant and
Nottingham Swing); however, 16 were interpreted and made available to the
dancing community after 1932 (by Kennedy, Gadd, Shaw, Simons, Bentley,
Cook & Sheffield).  There obviously were still a few good prospects left
in the historic pool.

Heffer & Porter made their statement in support of writing _new_ dance
figures (and, apparently, strong justification was needed for this nearly
sacrilegious idea at that time).  We now enjoy many beautiful, modern
dances created in the style/look/feel of historic ECDs (viz., 'Chestnuts
of 2297').

Still, are there any _good_ historic dances still out there waiting for
discovery?

William DeRagon
Albuquerque, NM  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 09:29:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 12:38:17 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990704120752.0092be40-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 11:47 PM 7/3/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Still, are there any _good_ historic dances still out there waiting for
>discovery?

David and I just got back from England where, at Lichfield Festival, we
attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's dances.  Not only is
Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking researcher, but he is a fine
judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he introduced were worth
doing, and two of them were gems.  Yes, there are good historic dances out
there waiting to be introduced to country dancers.  But just as Jacqueline
Schwab had to go through a ton of material before she found Barbarini's
Tambourine, I expect Andrew had to reject quite a few Kynaston dances
before he came up with his Lichfield program.  "There is gold in them thar
hills," but it takes a lot of digging to find it, and we're lucky to have
folks like Andrew doing the digging.

Sharon Green

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 07:47:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 12:20:45 -0330
From: "Martin E. Mulligan" <mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Assembly Ball in Edinburgh
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04011705b3a6811a89a3-AT-
[134.153.108.151]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Folks,

I inadvertently posted a message some two weeks ago in which I
discussed attending the Assembly Ball in Edinburgh.

Now that I have returned home from my travels, I want to
deliberately post this message to thank Nicolas Broadbridge for
encouraging me to attend and to urge all of you to do likewise
should you have the chance.

The Evening was splendid on all accounts though I will treasure
most the music of A&B - Aidan Broadbridge and Brian Prenctice.
They will issue a CD next year of the music which I will recommend
heartily.  I purchased the Assembly Players new CD (with last
year's program) which is a joy to listen to.  There was no advance
booking that I noticed - everyone just upped and asked a partner
for the next dance.  The program for the Ball was daunting for me
- I had never heard of many of the dances let alone danced them -
and the thursday night practice session was invaluable.  Now I
have a bunch of new dances to inflict on ..err, introduce to our
group next fall.

So thanks Nicolas, Nell, A&B, and all the members of the Glasgow
and Edinburgh Assembly for a memorable time.

Martin

=========================================================================
Martin E. Mulligan
St. John's (Newfoundland)
mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca
=========================================================================ÌÓ
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 16:03:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:02:36 +1000
From: Nancy Hoffmann <Nancy.Hoffmann-AT-
aceinfo.net.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Colonial Ball in Brisbane, Australia
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110717b3a6e0923576-AT-
[203.100.13.61]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Martin posted about the Assembly Ball in Edinburgh so I thought I would
tell you that similar Balls are alive and well at the oposite end of the
earth.

I don't profess to be an expert on Australian Colonial dancing - I only
started last year.Judging from the postings on this group I would say our
dancing is very similar to ECD.

We had Ball Cards and there *was* a mad rush to secure partners at the
beginning - all available males were soon booked out and strolled around
looking smug. However, there were very few out of town visitors so perhaps
that is why in this instance it worked well and almost every female had a
partner for every dance. The weeks of practice paid off; it was a joy to
whirl around as part of one huge coordinated throng. There was a live 5
piece band which included a small concertina - an essential Australian bush
dance instrument.

Here are some of the dances, many of them with a distinctly Australian
flavour; some were published in 1884. The proceedings started off with a
splendid Grand March.

Danish Double Quadrille - learnt from a Brisbane Danish group, almost
identical to the Double Quadrille.

The King's Waltz - commonly done in districts to the north and NW of
Toowoomba (about 100 miles from Brisbane), an area populated by Germans in
the 1870's.

Country Bumpkin - performed at a wedding in Sydney in 1803 and published in
1809.

Margaret's Waltz - Pat Shaw

One for the Money - New England Contra

Boston Two Step - by Tom Walton - became very popular in Australia - has
undergone a few changes on the way

Prince of Wales Scottische - various versions exist around Australia

Mr Beveridge's Maggot
Brisbane Quadrille - published in 1884
Petronella - published in 1884
Merry Widow Waltz
The Sweets of May
Posties Jig
Thady You Gander
Stockton Bridge
Polka Quadrille
Valse Espagnole
Varsovienne

Are any of these names familiar? - just curious.

I'm also taking this opportunity to announce that Brisbane's inaugural
Playford Ball will be held on October 23rd this year. If anyone is visiting
Brisbane at that time - please come! October is late Spring - rather late
in the season for balls - fabulous weather in Brisbane, which will be at
its best with the early jacarandas just  starting to flower.

Nancy Hoffmann
Brisbane, Australia







================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:03:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Howard Mitchell <howardgmitchell-AT-
yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <19990706160216.29729.rocketmail-AT-
web113.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sharon Green wrote:
> 
> David and I just got back from England where, at
> Lichfield Festival, we
> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
> dances.  Not only is
> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
> researcher, but he is a fine
> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
> introduced were worth
> doing, and two of them were gems.

I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

From the musician's point of view (I was the bass
player in the band, Stradivarious) there were some
interesting phrase lengths, 10 bars, 14 bars etc which
required a little explaining to the dancers.

I'll pass your comments on to Andrew as he is not
technologically enabled.

> Yes, there are
> good historic dances out
> there waiting to be introduced to country dancers. 
> But just as Jacqueline
> Schwab had to go through a ton of material before
> she found Barbarini's
> Tambourine, I expect Andrew had to reject quite a
> few Kynaston dances
> before he came up with his Lichfield program. 

I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
he was able to identify the series of publications
that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
them).  Although he could point to other publications
in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
particular years that I had found.  So there is some
material yet to be found but I have to confess that
the dances I turned up were nothing special.

Howard Mitchell



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:23:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:32:04 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990706121905.00b58e50-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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At 09:02 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Howard Mitchell wrote:
>Sharon Green wrote:
>> 
>> David and I just got back from England where, at
>> Lichfield Festival, we
>> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
>> dances.  Not only is
>> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
>> researcher, but he is a fine
>> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
>> introduced were worth
>> doing, and two of them were gems.
>
>I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
>be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
>finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

That was one of the two I especially liked; the other was Count Leon.

>I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
>from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
>he was able to identify the series of publications
>that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
>them).  Although he could point to other publications
>in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
>particular years that I had found.  So there is some
>material yet to be found but I have to confess that
>the dances I turned up were nothing special.

My feeling is that if the music is wonderful, it's worth taking a serous
look at the dance.  If the tune's not much, an otherwise intriguing
arrangement of figures is likely to fall flat.  But how great that you were
able to find new stuff, even though it was less special than you would have
liked.

Thanks for conveying our regards to Andrew.  And thanks also for your good
music at Lichfield!

Sharon Green
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:23:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:32:04 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990706121905.00b58e50-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 09:02 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Howard Mitchell wrote:
>Sharon Green wrote:
>> 
>> David and I just got back from England where, at
>> Lichfield Festival, we
>> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
>> dances.  Not only is
>> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
>> researcher, but he is a fine
>> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
>> introduced were worth
>> doing, and two of them were gems.
>
>I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
>be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
>finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

That was one of the two I especially liked; the other was Count Leon.

>I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
>from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
>he was able to identify the series of publications
>that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
>them).  Although he could point to other publications
>in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
>particular years that I had found.  So there is some
>material yet to be found but I have to confess that
>the dances I turned up were nothing special.

My feeling is that if the music is wonderful, it's worth taking a serous
look at the dance.  If the tune's not much, an otherwise intriguing
arrangement of figures is likely to fall flat.  But how great that you were
able to find new stuff, even though it was less special than you would have
liked.

Thanks for conveying our regards to Andrew.  And thanks also for your good
music at Lichfield!

Sharon Green
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:24:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:21:08 -0400
From: Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37822CF4.133A2578-AT-
harvard.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <4.1.19990704120752.0092be40-AT-
popserver.panix.com>

I have always viewed Heffer and Porter's poignant lament as short-sighted.
"Indisputable"? Really? It scarcely stands to reason that all the old and
unrediscovered dances are good, nor can they all be inferior. What I sometimes
wonder is whether some dances seem dull or graceless because we don't yet
understand them--we haven't mastered the feeling of them, don't phrase the
movements correctly, or hear and play the music at the wrong tempo. I think
it's true of many dances that their virtues are not apparent from the
page--except to the insightful scholar or "dancing master"--and demand patient
reconstruction and demonstration.
There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances
that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
disappeared almost entirely now? So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others
may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
Graham
P.S. And not to forget Bolton's ongoing *Retreads* series...
G


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:06:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JD8RJH938U9JD253-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Graham Christian writes many things I agree with:

  I have always viewed Heffer and Porter's poignant lament as short-sighted.
  "Indisputable"? Really? It scarcely stands to reason that all the old and
  unrediscovered dances are good, nor can they all be inferior. What I sometimes
  wonder is whether some dances seem dull or graceless because we don't yet
  understand them--we haven't mastered the feeling of them, don't phrase the
  movements correctly, or hear and play the music at the wrong tempo. 

Or the dance 'works' with period footwork and doesn't otherwise; Sharp's
agenda might have kept him from reconstructing, eg, Draper's Maggot with
a minuet step, and the dance doesn't phrase quite right with a walking step.

  I think it's true of many dances that their virtues are not apparent from the
  page--except to the insightful scholar or "dancing master"--and demand patient
  reconstruction and demonstration.

Hear, hear!  (For a modern case, I find Gary Roodman's dances to, generally,
be such wonderful expressions of the music that they don't necessarily look
that intriguing on the page, but are fabulous to dance.  They don't come to 
life until you move around.  And this is with a modern choreographer who 
writes clearly and unambiguously.)


  There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances
  that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
  disappeared almost entirely now? So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
  seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
  discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others
  may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"


We've probably beaten to death the change in fashions in contradancing,
probably because that's happened fast enough for people to notice.  (Triple
minors out, duple minor improper roughly-equal with a partner swing in.)  It
might be an interesting research project to try to determine the change in 
ECD fashions over the nearly-a-century of the revival.  I wonder how far back
Playford Ball programs are available.


Not in direct response to Graham, but anent the rest of this thread:  I expect
that there are yet wonderful tunes and splendid dances unreconstructed.  I
further expect -- I use this formulation because I'm talking through my hat --
that are wonderful tunes and splendid dances which have been reconstructed and
abandoned because they turned out to compete for dance-program niches with too
many other similar dances or tunes.  (I have a misty picture of a dance ecology
here, where little scurrying figures labeled "Well Hall" and "Bellamira"
battle, tooth and claw, for breeding space and food.)  How many easy waltz
country dances do you need, especially when some areas have distinct
repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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---Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu> wrote:
: in thirty years, others
> may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"

Well not the title, that much is certain.

Maybe we call 'em maggots because one just flies through the dance.

(Yes, I know that a "maggot" is a whim or a fancy.  But it still
sounds unappetizing to me.)

Barbara Ruth

_________________________________________________________
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From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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What's in a maggot?

Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot (proper
name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the origin by
the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.

Feel better, Barbara?

Albert Blank
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:32:35 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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>
>---Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu> wrote:
>: in thirty years, others
>> may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
>
>Well not the title, that much is certain.
>
>Maybe we call 'em maggots because one just flies through the dance.
>
>(Yes, I know that a "maggot" is a whim or a fancy.  But it still
>sounds unappetizing to me.)
>
>Barbara Ruth
>

Some of my favorite dances are maggots and there are so many GOOD ones.

Andy Peterson in Portland
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:53:28 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>Alan Winston writes:
>
>We've probably beaten to death the change in fashions in contradancing,
>probably because that's happened fast enough for people to notice.  (Triple

>minors out, duple minor improper roughly-equal with a partner swing in.)  It

>might be an interesting research project to try to determine the change in

>ECD fashions over the nearly-a-century of the revival.  I wonder how far back

>Playford Ball programs are available.

I have quite a few from New York, Hartford and Boston (including George Fogg's
Washington's Birthday Balls) from the early 80's until I moved to Oregon. I've
kept them in a file to refer to for breif instructions if I'm putting a program
together (which I haven't done for several years). I'm sure others have probably
kept at least some of the early ones.
>
>Not in direct response to Graham, but anent the rest of this thread:  I expect

>that there are yet wonderful tunes and splendid dances unreconstructed.  I

>further expect -- I use this formulation because I'm talking through my hat
--
>that are wonderful tunes and splendid dances which have been reconstructed
and
>abandoned because they turned out to compete for dance-program niches with
too
>many other similar dances or tunes.  (I have a misty picture of a dance ecology

>here, where little scurrying figures labeled "Well Hall" and "Bellamira"
>battle, tooth and claw, for breeding space and food.)  How many easy waltz

>country dances do you need, especially when some areas have distinct
>repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?

I think many of the old dances have gotten pushed aside because SOME people
want the most complex dances they can find. I think they get some perverse satisfaction
out of proving they can get through the complex ones. I dance for pleasure and
would rather do more of those older less complex dances. I like to be able to
enjoy the dance and the music and not have to concentrate so hard on the complexities
that the pleasure is lost. 
How many easy waltz country dances do you need? MANY as far as I'm concerned.
I could do a whole evening of my favorite 3/2 and 3/4 country dances and still
want more.

Andy in Portland
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:06:31 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
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Graham Christian wrote:

>There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances

>that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
>disappeared almost entirely now? 
    There are many dances that I remember doing with great pleasure with Gay
and Genny and other teachers. It is as much influenced by what catches a teachers
fancy. If the old dances are never taught, how can peole find out how truly
great they are? 
    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.
    We enjoy the new dances, but let's not forget where they came from.

Andy in Portland

>So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
>seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
>discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others

>may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
>Graham
>P.S. And not to forget Bolton's ongoing *Retreads* series...
>G
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 22:18:41 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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At 05:06 PM 7/6/99 +0700, adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
>called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
>done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
>evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
>dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.

Okay, Andy, now tell us the program...
Sharon Green (always looking for programming ideas)
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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At 05:06 PM 7/6/99 +0700, adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
>called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
>done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
>evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
>dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.

Okay, Andy, now tell us the program...
Sharon Green (always looking for programming ideas)
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:31:22 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Al Blank wrote:

> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is
> the origin by the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim. 

I wasn't aware that Maggot was a girl's nickname.  Thanks for 
pointing it out.  Al, are you sure about the connection between the 
nickname and the whim or fancy meaning?  Sounds suspiciously like 
folk etymology to me.  

If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute pun 
since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any 
earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:37:34 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)	-Reply
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  rich sez:
  If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute
pun 
since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot,"

  your pun gets better when you know that the betty in morris dancing
is a guy dressed as a woman.
  sharon "so is a gal dressed as a guy a Bill?" mckinley, and not an
official cross-dresser for any government agency
>>> Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> 07/06 8:31 pm >>>
Al Blank wrote:

> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is
> the origin by the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim. 

I wasn't aware that Maggot was a girl's nickname.  Thanks for 
pointing it out.  Al, are you sure about the connection between the 
nickname and the whim or fancy meaning?  Sounds suspiciously like 
folk etymology to me.  

If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute pun

since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any

earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================

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Subject: Re: What's in a Name?
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---Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> What's in a maggot?
> 
> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
(proper
> name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the
origin by
> the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.
> 
> Feel better, Barbara?


Sorry Al, that just makes me wonder about poor Margaret's friends.

It also explains why the nickname for Margaret nowadays is "Peggy."

Barbara Ruth

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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Margaret by Any Other Name
To: ECD-AT-
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> ---Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > What's in a maggot?
> > 
> > Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper
> > name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the
> origin by
> > the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.


So, if someone were to write a dance "George Davis' Delight" it
would, by definition, be a Maggot.

Barbara Ruth (aka Baru)

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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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Concerning the origins of "maggot":
The Oxford English Dictionary is my source.  Note that we use Maggie as
a diminutive of Margaret to this day.  It's easy to see how an
endearment like Maggot could evolve in this way ... my Maggot, my pet
... my fancy.

-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
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In response to Graham Christian, Alan wrote:

>How many easy waltz country dances do you need, especially when some areas
>have distinct
>repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?
>
>-- Alan

I'm a little confused, and perhaps a bit troubled, by the comment: "some
areas have distinct
repertoires and limited space to put new dances in."

Does this mean that in some dance circles a very limited number of dances
are done and no new dances can be introduced without taken something else
off the list? (My use of the term "new" is intended to mean either "new" as
in 20th C. or "new" as in previously not danced here.)

What is the size of the "distinct repertoire" these areas are dealing with?
Does the area have a "distinct repertoire" because the teachers aren't
finding, or looking for, new material or are the dancers reluctant to try
the unfamiliar? We all have our favorites that we enjoy doing at frequent
intervals, but I can't imagine limiting my repertoire.

Lou Vosteen
==========
"A man's mind, stretched by an original idea, never regains its original
dimensions." - Oliver Wendel Holmes
==========




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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 11:21:33 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Albert Blank wrote:

>Concerning the origins of "maggot":
>The Oxford English Dictionary is my source.  Note that we use Maggie as
>a diminutive of Margaret to this day.  It's easy to see how an
>endearment like Maggot could evolve in this way ... my Maggot, my pet
>.... my fancy.
>

Or an alternative nickname for Margaret would be Margie. If you pronounce the
"g" with a "y" sound, as found in Swedish for instance, you could find the roots
of Mary. Who knows the beginnings of names??

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

 . . .  Who knows the beginnings of names??

Well, there's quite a bit of information in some dictionaries; the
American Heritage Dictionary is one place to start.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:20:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Buffalo Gap
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   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next week?
I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on this list
so say hi when/if we meet there.

   I'm breaking up my trip with the contra dance in Pittsburgh on Friday
night so if anyone else is going to that perhaps I'll see you there as well.

Jonathan

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|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
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From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
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Whoa, whoa, gang!  The roots of names and nicknames have been quite
thoroughly studied by linguists:  we don't need to try to guess about them!
(Margaret is from Greek; Mary is from Hebrew, for instance.)

Robin (diminutive of Robert, Teutonic for "bright in fame;" reference to
sprightly little bird obvious as well) Layzer (variant of Lazar, from
Hebrew via Yiddish via Ellis Island) Hayden (if I remember correctly, from
Irish or Teutonic meaning "from the hill").
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
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Lou Vosteen quoted me and wrote:

  I'm a little confused, and perhaps a bit troubled, by the comment: "some
  areas have distinct
  repertoires and limited space to put new dances in."

  Does this mean that in some dance circles a very limited number of dances
  are done and no new dances can be introduced without taken something else
  off the list? (My use of the term "new" is intended to mean either "new" as
  in 20th C. or "new" as in previously not danced here.)

I don't know of any mainstream ECD circles in which this is completely
true. [In Regency dancing as done in Los Angeles, the repertoire
consists of the  roughly 20 dances, some newly-choreographed, some
imported from ECD, for  which audio tapes have been prepared, and it
expands very slowly indeed. I dropped that feature in moving Regency
dancing to the SF Bay Area, and there is no restriction on repertoire,
although there have been requests from  some dancers for _less_ variety
at balls so they can just show up in costume at the balls and not have
to learn anything.]

I hear -- and maybe someone who's directly involved should say more
about this -- that in the CD*NY teacher training program, there's a
repertoire of some  fifty dances that each teacher should be able to
teach, and I expect will have taught by the time they graduate.

In the SF Bay Area, each dance series tries to get through all the
dances on  the Playford Ball program at least once in the season, and
most do the same for the Fall Ball program as well.  (Many of those
dances are local favorites anyway, to be sure.)  Getting through those
limits the number of non-Ball dances you can do.  Further, I've been
advised - and found that it worked better, for that matter -- to limit
the number of brand-new dances in an  evening with experienced dancers. 
They love new dances, but they don't want to spend the whole evening
_working_, so I need to include enough familiar dances  that they feel
like they went to a dance rather than a workshop.  [This is all my
personal and local experience, and obviously doesn't apply in all
cases.  And for that matter it's my projection of motive on to the
dancers, but since I've restricted material not commonly done in the
area to about a quarter of my programs, I've had happier dancers, so 
I'm inclined to think the projection is correct.]

  What is the size of the "distinct repertoire" these areas are dealing with?
  Does the area have a "distinct repertoire" because the teachers aren't
  finding, or looking for, new material or are the dancers reluctant to try
  the unfamiliar? We all have our favorites that we enjoy doing at frequent
  intervals, but I can't imagine limiting my repertoire.

Perhaps "distinct repertoire" was a misleading way to phrase this.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:05:10 -0400
From: David Woolf <dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Johnathon -

I'll be doing sound for the week, so we will finally have a chance to
meet.

-David Woolf
================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:26:36 -0400
From: MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
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I'll be there
Martha Davey



On Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Jonathan Sivier
<j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
>   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next 
>week?
>I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on 
>this list
>so say hi when/if we meet there.
>
>   I'm breaking up my trip with the contra dance in Pittsburgh on 
>Friday
>night so if anyone else is going to that perhaps I'll see you there as 
>well.
>
>Jonathan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the  
> |
>|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                    
> |
>|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you 
>call. |
>|  Beckman Institute             |                                     
> |
>|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male          
> |
>|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                
> |
>|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                     
> |
>|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.            
> |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                  
> |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Martha
Martha Davey
25-14 37 ST,
Astoria, NY 11103
(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 15:59:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Jonathan Sivier wrote:

>    Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next week?
> I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on this list
> so say hi when/if we meet there.

i'll be there, and so will several others on this list (but i'll let them
speak for themselves!).

susie lorand
princeton, nj

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:05:07 PST
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:04:57 -0400
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu>

RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu wrote:

> Whoa, whoa, gang!  The roots of names and nicknames have been quite
> thoroughly studied by linguists:  we don't need to try to guess about them!
> (Margaret is from Greek; Mary is from Hebrew, for instance.)
>

(I'm not sure what the "whoa, whoa" is about or who was guessing.  Maybe I
missed a message or 2.)

The question wasn't so much about the roots of names (although that's
interesting, too) as it is about etymology of the whim or fancy meaning for
"maggot."  I questioned the derivation of the whim or fancy meaning from a
nickname for Margaret.  Al was kind enough to provide an authoritative source--
the OED, no less.  (Although I'm cautious enough to look for corroborative info
even for the OED's etymology.)  I've provided several other references below
which might be of interest.  I found the bit about Jonathan Swift particularly
interesting.

I only have access to an abridged version of the OED.  Could someone with
access to the full version (Michigan, Virginia and several other large
universities have subscribe to the on-line version) please look it up and quote
the full text of the definition of "maggot?"

Also, if anyone has access to Swift's "Mechanical Operation of the Spirit,"
which was published in _Tales of a Tub_, it would be interesting to see exactly
what Swift said about inspiration being caused by maggots biting nerves in the
brain.

And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major university please
look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle English
Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another greater
resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)

Here's the references to definitions of "maggot" I came up with:

From Webster's _The American Dictionary of the English Language_, 1828:
"A whim; an odd fancy. "

From _The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_, 1894:
"Maggot Maggoty. Whimsical, full of whims and fancies. Fancy tunes used to be
called maggots, hence we have “Barker's maggots,” “Cary's maggots,” “Draper's
maggots,” etc. (Dancing Master, 1721.)
   When the maggot bites. When the fancy takes us. Swift tells us that it was
the opinion of certain virtuosi that the brain is filled with little worms or
maggots, and that thought is produced by these worms biting the nerves. “If the
bite is hexagonal it produces poetry; if circular, eloquence; if conical,
politics, etc. (Mechanical Operation of the Spirit [1704--RG].)
   Instead of maggots the Scotch say, “His head is full of bees;” the French,
“Il a des rats dans la tête;” and in Holland, “He has a mouse's nest in his
head."

From _"The Folk File; A Folkie's Dictionary"_, 1997:
"maggot a fairly rare word meaning a dance or the tune for that dance. The
Playford Dancing Master lists many, including "Betty's Maggot", "Huntington's
Maggot", and "Captain's Maggot". The derivation of the word has nothing to do
with larvae, but comes from a ME word meaning "whim" or "odd fancy" (the word
fancy also appears in tunes for dancing), [Hmm.  I'd reserve judgment on this
assertion until someone can verify it in the _Middle English Dictionary_--RG]
which would also indicate that there may not be any specific dance steps.  See
also fiddle tunes.
---
"fiddle tunes fiddle tunes are categorized into a few main types. These are,
generally, hornpipes, strathspeys, reels and jigs (and occasionally, from the
Irish tradition, a planxty or humour). An air or fancy or maggot tends to be a
tune that doesn't fit the other categories. "

From _The WWWebster Dictionary_, 1997:
"Main Entry: mag·got
Pronunciation: 'ma-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mathek, magotte, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old
Norse mathkr maggot; akin to Old English matha maggot
Date: 14th century
1 : a soft-bodied legless grub that is the larva of a dipterous insect (as the
housefly)
2 : a fantastic or eccentric idea : WHIM"

Rich (who knows several "Margaret"s called "Margot," but none called "Maggot")
Galloway


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Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:57:23 PST
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:54:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
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Subject: Re:  ECD Digest V1 #549
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The Assembly Ball - Edinburgh 1999
	I must thank Martin Mulligan for his most generous comments anent our 
Ball on June 26th. It was for all of us a really  lovely evening, made all 
the better by the presence of Martin (in Edinburgh for a conference), Helene 
Cornelius (who flew over specially to come to the Ball - wow!!!) and one of 
our members who spends most of the year in Texas but flew back to her home in 
Scotland for a week in order to come to the Ball.
	One very small correction to Martin's posting: when we record this 
year's Ball programme next Christmas ('Pat Shaw's Playford') it will be The 
Assembly Players (three piece Band) who record it, and not 'A&B'; they play 
for the Ball, but rope in the old man to make a band recording later! Of 
course, the year will come when ...
	Last year's Ball, 'Dance & Danceability', is the recently released CD 
to which Martin referred, and comprises twenty one dances published in Jane 
Austen's lifetime. A second CD by the Band has just this week been released: 
it comprises fifteen new compositions by John Wood with new tunes by Chris 
Carpenter, and is called 'My Family and other Dances'.
	Referring to recent postings on the subject of 'quarrying' fresh 
dances from the C17th and C18th collections, I can quite understand the 
Kennedys' and Heffers' viewpoint; after all, Sharp had plundered only the 
earlier editions of the DM, and himself promoted the mind-set that anything 
published later was thoroughly decadent and therefore not worthy of 
resuscitation; times, fashions and points of
view change, and Sharp's death, followed by a world war fifteen years later, 
allowed a completely fresh approach to such things, making possible Pat 
Shaw's long running monthly series, 'Another look at Playford' (at C. Sharp 
House 1951- 74).
	Marjorie Fennessy and I are just starting work on all of Pat's 
research material, with a view to publication. Pat 'had a look' at all of 
Bray's dances, much of Kynaston (I well remember Count Leon), much of Wilson, 
Essex/Feuilet, Dukes, Wright, Walsh, Rutherford, and many other collections, 
including, of course, The Dancing Master in all its editions and three 
volumes.
	In no way do I wish to belittle the work of Tom Cook, Charles Bolton, 
Fried de Metz Herman et al. who have found and published some lovely dances 
and tunes (many of which are favourites of mine), but in a way Pat paved the 
way for their researches; and his transcriptions are very often definitive. 
There was a limit to what he could transcribe and teach in one lifetime, 
particularly when that lifetime was cut short at the age of fifty nine, but 
it is significant that many of the better dances and tunes published in later 
years are to be found noted by him in his notebooks.
	Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland (where, contrary to popular belief and 
the wishes of the Nationalists, we have not yet drawn up the drawbridge to 
England!).
	PS Apologies for the length of this homily. N. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:25:49 PST
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:25:35 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I've often thought the minimum basic repertoire in modern ECD is around
200. We could make lists if we wanted and it might be very instructive.  At
our dance we do about 15 dances each evening, at least 2 of which are
repeats from earlier in the evening - during our request period.  In
addition, each month we do a dance of the month once each week, to polish
it after we learn it.

But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were to publish
a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years or so.  Now that
would let us see how trends bring new material in and discard old, and what
the true chestnuts are!

One of our dancers has been maintaining a database of the programs we do
for quite a long time now.  At least 10 years, maybe more.  Each year he
looks to see which dances get done most because we have the request hour,
which gives us a clue about what the dancers like as opposed to what the
leaders offer.

But we've discussed this before.......

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:41:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: JBGrun-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Maggots, continued
To: ECD-AT-
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I swore I wasn't going to join this discussion but I can't help myself. I 
checked out my 2 volume 1950 ed. of Webster's Unabridged New International 
Dictionary and, in addition to the stuff everyone else has found concerning 
maggots, it says : "3. Music. A composition of impromptu character. Obs. 
Naturally this led me to the Oxford Companion of Music, 9th ed, which says, 
under MAGGOT: "In older English, a fanciful idea, and so, by extension, a 
pleasant piece of music—generally a country dance (q.v.) with somebody's name 
attached, presumably in a complimentary way, e.g. 'My Lady Winwood's Maggot'. 
 Judy (from Judith, meaning praised)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 00:41:24 PST
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 03:40:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?) -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
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> 
> since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
> the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
> be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any
> 
> earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
> in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?

Nope, sorry.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 06:12:10 PST
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:13:07 +0200
From: Roswitha Betsche <r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Edinburgh
To: ECD mailing list <ECD-AT-
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--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)
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Hallo,

could anyone tell me where I can buy ECD - CDs in Edinburgh. I will be
there from 15 - 18 August. You can answer me privately:
r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de

Thanks in advance
Rosi


--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hallo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>could anyone tell me where I can buy ECD - CDs 
in Edinburgh. I will be there from 15 - 18 August. You can answer me privately: 
<A 
href="mailto:r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de">r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Rosi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)--
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Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:28:21 PST
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:

> 
> And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major
university please
> look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle
English
> Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another
greater
> resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)


Glad to be of help.  Working at Yale apparently does have some
advantages.

Nothing for "maggote" or "maggot".

"Magot" elicited:
magot (n.) Also magat, maked.
[?Var. of maddok.]    A maggot; also, a bedbug.

maddok (n.) Also maddock & (early) maðek & (?errors) maddolk, mazek.
[?OE; cp. OE maða, OI maðkr.] (a) An earthworm; (b) a bedbug; (c) a
maggot.



"Mathek got not response so I tried "mathe" as a possible variant
and got:
mathe (n.) Also (error) mache; pl. mathes, methes & mathen, matthen,
(early) meaðen.  [OE maþa]  (a) A maggot, grub, worm; (b)?as surname.

Checking up all the results there the only one that produced
anything was "mathen":

mathen (n.)   [Back formation from mathenhde.] A virgin.


A virgin?  We've got worms, bedbugs and virgins.  Somehow from all
of that, musical fancies or whims.


Barbara (from Latin for stranger or barbarian, which some people
think I am) Ruth (from the Hebrew Bible, Moabite widow who refused
to part from her Israelite mother-in-law Naomi, and thus became a
stranger in the land of Israel).


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
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Barbara, Rich, et al:

You might also enjoy looking up "maggot-pie" in the OED; apparently 1932
was not the first usage of that term, either.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:00:43 -0400
From: "Andersen, Carl E (CAP, CORP)" <Carl.Andersen-AT-
gecapital.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Falcon Ridge
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Gene Murrow and Hudson Crossing will debut English Country Dance on the
Dance Stage at the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, the "three-day community of
folk music & dance at the foot of the Berkshires" at Long Hill Farm on Route
23 in Hillsdale, NY.

Dancing Friday 2pm to 2am; Saturday 11am to midnight; and Sunday 11am to
7:30pm. Styles include Cajun, Zydeco, English Country, contra, squares,
family and gender-free, swing, and world beat. Gene & H.C. appear Sunday.

Check out the great aerial view of the Festival at www.FalconRidgeFolk.com
<http://www.FalconRidgeFolk.com> . Lots of other information there, too.
Concerts on the Main Stage begin at noon, Friday.

I've got a spare ticket - 3-day, no camping - I'd like to unload. It's $55.
Please e-mail me privately.

Carl
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:01:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:41:51 -0400
From: Torbin Zimmerman <torbin-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3784F0EF.4AA822B2-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

This thread has been a useful reminder that EC dancers of times past
spoke English, but not our English. They are not always saying to us
what we think on first reading.

Another, more familiar, example is Yankee Doodle who did not claim that
 feather in his hat was pasta.

(My Shorter OED says:

Macaroni...One of a class of 18th. century exquisites...a fop, a
dandy....)

Torbin Zimmerman


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:28:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Woolf" <dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Atlanta's English Weekend
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9907081727490.25183-100000-AT-
jet.cc.emory.edu>
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	_____________________________________________________



             English Country Dance Atlanta
                                                          
               presents the Fifth Annual

       Maggots, Gypsies, and Other Divertissements

     a weekend of English Country (and contra) Dance

                      featuring . . .

     *********************************************

                      Earl Gaddis
                   Jacqueline Schwab
                     Daron Douglas
                          with
             Gene Murrow teaching and prompting

     **********************************************

               $42 for the weekend (in advance)

                September 10, 11 & 12, 1999
                      Atlanta, Georgia



                 You can find the brochure at:

       userwww.service.emory.edu/~dwoolf/weekend.html


         	 Or e-mail name and address to:

                      dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu

             or call the Atlanta Dance Hotline at

                        404/634-2585


         _____________________________________________



Hope to see you there.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Woolf <dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu> 	      	     Emory Eye Center
W - 404/778-4121                             Emory University
H - 404/355-2827                             Atlanta, GA  30322





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:49:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:49:24 -0400
From: "Gordon, Judy" <judy_gordon-AT-
standardandpoors.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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As part of the chain on the repertoire topic and whether the dances a group
does should be limited, in part, Alan Winston wrote:

>I hear -- and maybe someone who's directly involved should say more
about this -- that in the CD*NY teacher training program, there's a
repertoire of some  fifty dances that each teacher should be able to
teach, and I expect will have taught by the time they graduate.<

Actually, the "List of 50 Repertoire Dances" is a list of dances the English
dance teachers for Country Dance * New York thought the well-versed
experienced EC dancer should know well enough with to dance with little or
no prompting. (According to one of the teachers involved, it was assumed
that the teachers knew them all.) The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
would be great to have one.)

Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
50--I was not involved in teaching ECD at that time. And in some e-mail
discussions this year the question was raised, "Why 50?" One answer was that
it is a manageable number, and reasonable for both teachers and dancers. 

Interestingly, as I was completing my apprenticeship, no one checked to see
whether or not I could teach the dances on that list. I suppose if I
couldn't already, it was judged that I was capable of teaching them from the
notes.

The current teachers are in the midst of attempting to update the list to
reflect the growing popularity of some newer dances. The question then
becomes what to drop. We each were supposed to take the old list and come up
with drops and adds. That's where we still are. In the meantime, I have been
using the list from Gene Murrow's Chestnuts of 2297 class at Pinewoods
English Week 1997 as sort of a modern-day list, and adding others as I
encounter them, as I'm sure our other teachers are doing as well. The
dilemma, of course, is becoming so many great dances, not enough time to do
them. And fewer of us can do any repertoire dance off the top of our heads.

Those interested can find the CD*NY Repertoire List
(1992), on the group's Web site at  <http://www.cdny.org>. The cumulative
dance list of our ECD programs starting with our fall/winter 1998 season
also can be found there, thanks to the CD*NY Web Committee.

Yonina Gordon


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:21:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:51:19 -0230 (NDT)
From: Margaret Connors <mconnors-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990708213710.26782A-100000-AT-
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Greetings to All!

A visit to the library turned up the following in addition to Barbara's
findings.  I have tried to retain the published spellings, so the p in
"pe" represents the letter thorn, the d in "madek" represents the letter
eth and the f in "fort", etc. represents a long s.

The "Promptorium Parvulorum sive Clericorum Dictionarius Anglo-Latinus
Princeps" (circa 1440) defines madek (with variations maye, make, magot,
magat, may and math) as a "wyrm yn pe fleshe" 

I also looked at the available facsimilies of early English dictionaries. 
The two dictionaries from the 1600's (those of Henry Cockeram, 1623 and
Elisha Coles, 1676) did not contain the word maggot or any variations on
the spelling. 

John Kersey in "A New English Dictionary" (1702) and "Dictionarium
Anglo-Britannicum" (1708) defined Magget or Maggot as "a fort of worm".

It was "A General Dictionary of the English Language" by Thomas Sheridan,
1780, which defined maggot as "a fmall grub which turns into a fly;
whimfy, caprice, odd fancy".

A partial citation for maggot from the OED:

2. a whimsical or perverse fancy; a crochet

1625 FLETCHER Women Pleased III iv Are not you mad my friend?...Have not
you Maggots in your braines?  c1645 HOWELL lett.(1688) II.328 There's a
strange Magot hath got into their Brain. 1678 DRYDEN Limberham v.i What
new maggot's this; you dare not sure be jealous! 1685 S. WESLEY (title)
Maggots; or Poems on several subjects 1693 SHADWELL Volunteers v. wks 1720
IV. 480  Blunt. Ha Fellow! What dost thou mean by a maggot? Hor. Sir a
little concern of mine in my way, a little whim or so Sir.

It would seem that this usage of maggot dates from the seventeenth
century.

Perhaps the word maggot became associated with dance tunes because of
their propensity to fix themselves in our brains!


Margaret,
who in her childhood was called by almost every diminutive and variation
of her name, but never Maggot.

On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Barbara Ruth wrote:

> 
> ---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major
> university please
> > look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle
> English
> > Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another
> greater
> > resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)
> 
> 
> Glad to be of help.  Working at Yale apparently does have some
> advantages.
> 
> Nothing for "maggote" or "maggot".
> 
> "Magot" elicited:
> magot (n.) Also magat, maked.
> [?Var. of maddok.]    A maggot; also, a bedbug.
> 
> maddok (n.) Also maddock & (early) maðek & (?errors) maddolk, mazek.
> [?OE; cp. OE maða, OI maðkr.] (a) An earthworm; (b) a bedbug; (c) a
> maggot.
> 
> 
> 
> "Mathek got not response so I tried "mathe" as a possible variant
> and got:
> mathe (n.) Also (error) mache; pl. mathes, methes & mathen, matthen,
> (early) meaðen.  [OE maþa]  (a) A maggot, grub, worm; (b)?as surname.
> 
> Checking up all the results there the only one that produced
> anything was "mathen":
> 
> mathen (n.)   [Back formation from mathenhde.] A virgin.
> 
> 
> A virgin?  We've got worms, bedbugs and virgins.  Somehow from all
> of that, musical fancies or whims.
> 
> 
> Barbara (from Latin for stranger or barbarian, which some people
> think I am) Ruth (from the Hebrew Bible, Moabite widow who refused
> to part from her Israelite mother-in-law Naomi, and thus became a
> stranger in the land of Israel).
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:51:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:51:24 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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[206.72.203.145]>
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At 5:49 PM -0400 7/8/99, Yonina wrote:
> The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
>teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
>that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
>by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
>would be great to have one.)
>
>Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
>according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
>choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
>lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
>50

This is very interesting to me.  Recently a list of the "Top 100 
quilts of the century" was developed in just this way.  A handful of 
top bigwigs from a couple of top magazines hand picked a group of 
knowledgeable and varied quilters. Each of said quilters was asked to 
write a list of 100 top quilts of the last century.  The list is 
presented as a whole list of 100, but always with short preamble 
lists - this (short) list of quilts were chosen unanimously, this 
(slightly longer) list appeared on a certain number of the total 
lists etc.

It seems a reasonable way to develop a list when the decision making 
is more than anything else subjective and variable.

The caveat I think to doing this sort of project be a "cone of 
silence" approach until the results were in and tallied.  Then 
discussion/debate/final presentation form etc could ensue.

If there is interest in such a thing, I would be willing to receive 
and tally the voting and prepare the list for discussion - I could 
even stick it up on a web site for perusal if you like.

Are you interested?  Do you want to choose 50 dances? Let me know 
(discussion here would be great) - but PLEASE don't send me your list 
yet.  If there's interest, I'd like to think about the best way to do 
this (setting up a web page form springs to mind, for instance)

Mary Beth Goodman <-- years of experience as bean counter

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:51:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:51:24 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <v04205500b3aaf42087b5-AT-
[206.72.203.145]>
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At 5:49 PM -0400 7/8/99, Yonina wrote:
> The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
>teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
>that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
>by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
>would be great to have one.)
>
>Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
>according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
>choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
>lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
>50

This is very interesting to me.  Recently a list of the "Top 100 
quilts of the century" was developed in just this way.  A handful of 
top bigwigs from a couple of top magazines hand picked a group of 
knowledgeable and varied quilters. Each of said quilters was asked to 
write a list of 100 top quilts of the last century.  The list is 
presented as a whole list of 100, but always with short preamble 
lists - this (short) list of quilts were chosen unanimously, this 
(slightly longer) list appeared on a certain number of the total 
lists etc.

It seems a reasonable way to develop a list when the decision making 
is more than anything else subjective and variable.

The caveat I think to doing this sort of project be a "cone of 
silence" approach until the results were in and tallied.  Then 
discussion/debate/final presentation form etc could ensue.

If there is interest in such a thing, I would be willing to receive 
and tally the voting and prepare the list for discussion - I could 
even stick it up on a web site for perusal if you like.

Are you interested?  Do you want to choose 50 dances? Let me know 
(discussion here would be great) - but PLEASE don't send me your list 
yet.  If there's interest, I'd like to think about the best way to do 
this (setting up a web page form springs to mind, for instance)

Mary Beth Goodman <-- years of experience as bean counter

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:56:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990708185142.18968A-100000-AT-
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Torbin Zimmerman wrote:

> Another, more familiar, example is Yankee Doodle who did not claim that
>  feather in his hat was pasta.
> 
> (My Shorter OED says:
> 
> Macaroni...One of a class of 18th. century exquisites...a fop, a
> dandy....)

Or did he? Macaroni was pretty exotic stuff to the 18th century British, 
not to mention the colonists, and a plain-speaking person would consider 
eating such foreign stuff to be the height of fashionable foppishness -- 
or at least, that's how the derivation of that usage for the word 
"macaroni" was explained to me, years ago. Sorta like sushi, 15 years ago.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:32:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:34:42 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology/floating in cyberspace
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907090231.WAA24687-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I foolishly wrote:

> (I'm not sure what the "whoa, whoa" is about or who was guessing.  Maybe I
> missed a message or 2.)

Turns out I missed about 7 messages.  They all came zipping in this 
evening.  I hope they had fun floating out there in cyberspace.  Now 
Robin's message makes perfect sense to me.  Sorry I questioned you, 
Robin.  

Rich (person with foot in mouth) 
Galloway (derived from [Pict?] word for southwest Scotland)



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:05:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 01:04:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Message-ID: <24ed2977.24b6dcf7-AT-
aol.com>
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 >   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo
 >Gap next week? I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words
 >I've been reading on this list so say hi when/if we meet there.

I'll be there.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:50:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 01:49:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dances and the weather
To: EngDance list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990709014159.20786E-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
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Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
callers out there think about this.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:07:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:09:35 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3786029F.87227E53-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

For Rich Galloway and others with etymological maggots:
	The OED is in many personal libraries, since the Book-of-the-Month Club
once offered the fine print edition as an inducement for membership.  I
got mine for the princely sum of $18 in that way.  Maggot and derived
formations constitute a rather lengthy segment of text, too long for
quotation here.  It includes a list of nine citations by name in The
Dancing Master, 16th ed. (1716) and refers nonspecifically to "ten
similar titles" in the DM II (1719).  The primary etymological
reference, problematic, is to the Middle English "MADDOCK" and states
drily that the exact formation is not easy to determine.  It certainly
doesn't conform to usual ideas about the evolution of consonants.  A
paragraph of ensuing discussion states, "possibly the form MAK ... may
have suggested a jocular application of the female nickname MAGGOT for
Margaret ..."  That last seems a long stretch to me.  The confluence, if
any, would be simpler if more direct.
	Anyway, my maggoty approach should help Barbara Ruth dispel thoughts of
flies when she meets the word, Maggot, in the ECD context.
Ciao,
Al
	
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:08:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:10:02 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <378602BA.5F2E9195-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990708213710.26782A-100000-AT-
plato.ucs.mun.ca>

Margaret Connors wrote(in part):
> 
> Margaret,
> who in her childhood was called by almost every diminutive and variation
> of her name, but never Maggot.
> 

Not even Maggie?

OED offers earlier citations than the ones you mention.  The first clear
reference in our context (not "Maggots in your braines", which may have
a double meaning) is 1685 S. Wesley (title) Maggots: or Poems on several
subjects. This is followed by one defining defining a maggot as a
whimsy.  Earlier citations would have to be quoted more extensively to
confirm this sense of maggot.
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:34:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:33:28 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s785d010.033-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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al:
  re OED:
  i could swear i paid $25 for mine!
  sharon

>>> Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> 07/09 10:09 am >>>
For Rich Galloway and others with etymological maggots:
	The OED is in many personal libraries, since the
Book-of-the-Month Club
once offered the fine print edition as an inducement for membership. 
I
got mine for the princely sum of $18 in that way.  Maggot and derived
formations constitute a rather lengthy segment of text, too long for
quotation here.  It includes a list of nine citations by name in The
Dancing Master, 16th ed. (1716) and refers nonspecifically to "ten
similar titles" in the DM II (1719).  The primary etymological
reference, problematic, is to the Middle English "MADDOCK" and states
drily that the exact formation is not easy to determine.  It certainly
doesn't conform to usual ideas about the evolution of consonants.  A
paragraph of ensuing discussion states, "possibly the form MAK ... may
have suggested a jocular application of the female nickname MAGGOT for
Margaret ..."  That last seems a long stretch to me.  The confluence,
if
any, would be simpler if more direct.
	Anyway, my maggoty approach should help Barbara Ruth dispel
thoughts of
flies when she meets the word, Maggot, in the ECD context.
Ciao,
Al
	
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:39:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709143900.43325.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
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Dawn Culbertson wrote:

<<Should the weather be a factor in determining what dances get done (for 
example, scheduling more lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted 
but not paid attention to, or should it be ignored altogether? >>

Definietly so! When I used to do the booking for English in New York, I 
would always hire a certain teacher in the wintertime, since she tended to 
program lively evenings, full of rants, skips, gallops, etc. It seemed to be 
the only sensible thing to do, otherwise we'd have to set up "heat 
exhaustion" clinic in the kitchen.

Margherita Davis


_______________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:52:12 PST
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:03:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: EngDance list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Dawn Culbertson wrote:

> or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
> determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
> lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
> to, or should it be ignored altogether?

Speaking as one who does not have air-conditioning in the hall, although
the fans help some, weather definitely plays a role in what I choose to
teach.  When outside and it's cold, I choose fast-moving dances, as equal
as possible.  When indoors and it's hot, I choose easy, short dances, and
try to pick slower ones.  Easy and short become important since many
people's brains melt in the heat.  Patience and tempers can also flare
more quickly in high temps, and easy dances can help avoid frustration
with fellow dancers. 


Christine

English Country dancing in and around Toronto:
http://www.interlog.com/~cedar

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:46:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 7/9/99 5:51:41 AM, Dawn Culbertson wrote:

<<Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
callers out there think about this.>>

I think one must avoid causing heat exhaustion on hot nights, but I would 
suggest that it is easy to go overboard in the direction of non-lively 
dances. I tend to feel bothered by the heat more during slow dances which are 
chosen specifically to avoid vigorous motion. You create a little breeze when 
you move faster. I would prefer to keep the dances short, the intervals 
between dances longer, and intersperse gentler dances in the program, rather 
than avoid vigorous dances entirely on hot nights. We do contra dancing here 
in Baltimore all summer, and Lovely Lane's hall can get quite hot and humid. 
It's still lots of fun in the summer, and we just expect to sweat. We just 
change shirts a lot. For me, the same thing applies to ECD: I'd prefer to 
have a lively dance and sweat, than do an evening of dance-free dances. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:17:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:09:39 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709.142415.6470.1.franch-AT-
juno.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
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I had previously replied privately to the first couple of Buffalo Gap
messages, but since they're multiplying, and I've enjoyed knowing who
else was coming, I'll say publicly "Me! Me!" or rather "Us! Us!"  I'll be
there for the dancing, and Eileen will be there for the ECD musicians
workshop.

Mike Franch

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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:17:47 PST
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:17:16 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709.142415.6470.2.franch-AT-
juno.com>
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gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>

Dawn asked callers about their views about appropriate programming for
warm weather dancing.  I'm not a caller, but as a dancer, I know that I
certainly appreciate it when the weather is taken into consideration.  It
seems to me that Dawn's query contained the answer, if dancers were noted
sitting out or leaving early.

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:06:07 -0800
From: Carol McCabe <cmccabe-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: [Fwd: Country Dance]
To: english dance <ECD-AT-
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have others seen this site?

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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:16:31 -0800
From: Sheri Hazeltine <sherih-AT-
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>X-From_: peanutjake-AT-
netzero.net  Sun Jun 27 16:37:52 1999
>From: "peanutjake" <peanutjake-AT-
netzero.net>
>To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>Subject: Country Dance
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:30:00 -0400
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
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>
>Hi:
>       I found your email address on a list of those interested in English
>Country Dancing. I have just added an English Country Dance section to my
>web site. So far there is the music for 36 of the Playford Country Dances.
>All the music is full length and arranged with the dancer in mind. There are
>also sections for Contra Dance Music, Square Dance Music and Folk Dance
>Music,
> The address is
>http://netopia.geocities.com/peanutjake
>
>To get to the Country Dance Section+ADs-
>Goto the OUT BASKET
>scroll down to Country Dance Music
>Then click on BROWSE
>
>If you like the music there are some things you can do to HELP the project.
>
>1. You can forward this message to everyone you know who likes English
>Country Dancing.
>2. You can click on the Recommend-it button on the site.
>3. If you have a website, you can add a link to my site.
>4. If you have a newsletter or magazine, you can include a notice about the
>site.
>5.If you are a dancer who knows the music, or a musician who knows the
>dances, you can check the tunes to verify that I did not make any mistakes
>when I arranged the music. Do I have the correct tempo, correct repeats,
>correct length, etc. etc?
>
>
>Peanutjake
>
>
>
>+ACE-
>
>
>
>
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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:52:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:46:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907091346.JAA02159-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
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Of course one should be mindful of the weather in direct proportion to how
much the ambient temperature differs from "normal room temperature".
If it is chilly, keep the dancers moving.  If it is hot, do the slow
dances, and take more breaks.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:55:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 20:54:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: judy_gordon-AT-
standardandpoors.com
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Yonina wrote:

 >Rumor has it that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been
 >compiled in the mid-'70s by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure
 >anyone still has a copy of this. It would be great to have one.

Perhaps you'll find it on your own bookshelf, under the title, "A
Playford Ball" by Genny Shimer and Kitty Keller.

Off to Buffalo Gap, then Pinewoods (Early Music Week).

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:05:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:26:54 +1000
From: Nancy Hoffmann <Nancy.Hoffmann-AT-
aceinfo.net.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110701b3ac25408347-AT-
[203.100.15.209]>
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

My Australian Edition of the huge Collins English Dictionary (1791 pp, 2
1/2 inches thick) gives:

maggot (n):1. the soft limbless larvae of dipterous insects, esp in the
housefly and blowfly..
2. Rare - a fancy or whim. (C14; from earlier mathek, related to Old Norse
mathkr worm, Old English  matha, Old High German mado, grub).

Also:
maggoty (adj) besides its more usual meaning, is slang for very drunk, and
Australian slang for annoyed or angry.

(Hmmm - didn't know that!)

Nancy Hoffmann
Brisbane, Australia


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 20:14:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:59:22 +1000
From: Brett Harrison <routier-AT-
tig.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD*NY repertoire (was: Are there any good...)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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tig.com.au>
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NTNYCMSX01>

Greetings for the first time

I've been lurking and learning on this list for some time. Call me a re-enactor
who loves to dance rather than a dancer who enjoys historical dance. The group
I'm in focuses on the mid-l7th century (English Civil Wars) and has recently
expanded its activities to include some dancing, including Playford 1651 edition
dances. We're based in Sydney, Australia.

Looking at the CD*NY repertoire I saw that there are few first edition dances
(not an issue, or course).I assume that the dance "Hey, boys up go we" is
"Cuckolds all a row" by a more polite name?

If this is the case I would love to get some more instruction on how to do it.
None of the contacts I have include this dance in their repertoire and I'm
particularly confused about how the third section is danced:

-Men put the Co. We. back by both hands, fall even on the
-Co. side men cast off to the right hand, your We. following,
-come to the same place again · put them back again, fall on
-your owne side, men cast off to the left hand, and come to
-your places, the We. following : 

How does the 'cast off' work, exactly?

Also, in the first section it says:

-Turne back to back to the Co. We. faces againe, goe about
-the Co. We. not turning your faces ·

I've seen instructions which call for "Contraries gipsy R; then L. " (Palmers
Pocket Playford) but this doesn't seem to be what the original edition says.
Totally innocently I read it as a "do si do" followed by a gypsy the other way.
Help anyone?

Regards + +
Sue Drain

"Gordon, Judy" wrote:

> Actually, the "List of 50 Repertoire Dances" is a list of dances the English
> dance teachers for Country Dance * New York thought the well-versed
> experienced EC dancer should know well enough with to dance with little or
> no prompting. (According to one of the teachers involved, it was assumed
> that the teachers knew them all.) The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
> teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
> that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
> by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
> would be great to have one.)

> 
<snip>

> Those interested can find the CD*NY Repertoire List
> (1992), on the group's Web site at  <http://www.cdny.org>. The cumulative
> dance list of our ECD programs starting with our fall/winter 1998 season
> also can be found there, thanks to the CD*NY Web Committee.
> 
> Yonina Gordon


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:26:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Dave wrote:

>Yonina wrote:

> >Rumor has it that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been
> >compiled in the mid-'70s by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure
> >anyone still has a copy of this. It would be great to have one.

>Perhaps you'll find it on your own bookshelf, under the title, "A
>Playford Ball" by Genny Shimer and Kitty Keller.

Which has 102 dances and tunes, and is therefore unlikely to be a list of 
50.  (And has no compositions since 1802 or thereabouts, for that matter.)

>Off to Buffalo Gap, then Pinewoods (Early Music Week).

Off to Mendocino in 8 hours.  I hope we all have fun.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 05:10:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:16:48 +1000
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199907111204.WAA18756-AT-
vasquez.zip.com.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu> wrote:

> Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
> hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
> of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
> only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
> about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
> when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
> assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
> or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
> determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
> lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
> to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
> callers out there think about this.

I've altered a programme according to the weather. I did a dance 
one spring evening which turned out to be distinctly warmer than 
usual and cut down considerably on the energy level. What 
particularly pleased me was that one of the dancers came up and 
commented at the end what a nice relaxed evening it had been.

I've also done the opposite in November when there had been a mix 
up over the heating in the hall so it was very cold. Rather than the 
normal English style of doing two dances then having a break we 
just did dance after dance after dance to keep people warm.

I think that a good caller should be prepared to alter their 
programme at a moments notice, and also have sufficient repertoire 
to be able to adapt to different conditions.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:32:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:35:04 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sprintmail.com>
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References: <s785d010.033-AT-
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Sharon A McKinley wrote:
> 
> al:
>   re OED:
>   i could swear i paid $25 for mine!
>   sharon
> 
Hi!
	I got in there years ahead of you.
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:32:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:35:25 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD*NY repertoire (was: Are there any good...)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3788D5DD.F653A883-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <9CD16AB17310D311BCA40008C71B768056702A-AT-
NTNYCMSX01> <3785F22A.A4ADFAD-AT-
tig.com.au>

Brett Harrison wrote (in part):

> I assume that the dance "Hey, boys up go we" is
> "Cuckolds all a row" by a more polite name?

It is.  Sharp borrowed the present name from a dance now called "The Way
to Norwich." To the ribald 20th century mind, he lost his way on that
one.
> If this is the case I would love to get some more instruction on how to do it.
> None of the contacts I have include this dance in their repertoire and I'm
> particularly confused about how the third section is danced:
> 

	There are clear descriptions in Sharp's Country Dance Book and in
Keller/Shimer, The Playford Ball.  If these are not available to you,
please e-mail me directly and I'll send an annotated description of the
dance in reply without cluttering up this site.

	This sent to the entire list for the sake of the following comment:
	Playford has the man putting the contrary woman back in both the
poussette movements, but Keller/Shimer has them continuing the
poussette.  This has been interpreted as having the woman put the man
back the second time.  Kitty Keller confirmed my feeling that this is
not the correct interpretation.  Before the Keller/Shimer book appeared,
it was always danced the Playford/Sharp way in the States.

-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:06:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:12:15 +1000
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199907121259.WAA17197-AT-
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"Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:

> But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were to publish
> a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years or so.  Now that
> would let us see how trends bring new material in and discard old, and what
> the true chestnuts are!

I might have mentioned this before, but there is a dance community 
in the UK ( around Stockton and Darlington) who run a "top twenty" 
dance each year. Each club in the area votes for their favourite 
dances and the 20 that receive the most votes get done.

I know the band who normally play for this dance and they reckon 
that about 10 of the dances are the same from year to year (these 
tend to be the old favourites - Newcastle, Levi Jackson), another 5 
come from a fairly small pool so come round every two or three 
years and the remaining 5 are that year's hits.

I love the idea of the dance, and it makes for an interesting piece of 
history as well.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:07:36 PST
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
VALLEY.NET (David Millstone)
Subject: Repertoire
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Following up on the discussion about the CD*NY list of 50 repertoire dances...

The Strafford (Vermont) Ball started in 1995 as a way of building a community
of English country dancers in our area. There were a small number of eager
English dancers, but not enough to support a regular dance. Thus, instead of
the Ball emerging from a regular program, we went the other route--use the
festive occasion of a ball to spark interest in English country dancing, with
the goal of building up the number of local dancers so that we could eventually
support a regular local dance. That has, in fact, happened.

The Ball committee--that sounds so formal, doesn't it?--initially came up with
guidelines for the Ball program that we have followed since then. 

We wanted our Ball to place its emphasis on dances which we felt were part of
"standard repertoire." The idea was that new dancers would be learning dances
that they might reasonably expect to encounter elsewhere. With new dancers as a
target audience, even the standards would be fresh. We also liked the idea that
dancers coming from away to join us at the Ball could look over the program and
sigh with relief: "Oh, I know most of these." (We'd all experienced that
sinking feeling that comes from looking over the program of a distant
ball--where we wouldn't be able to attend preparation classes--and being
unfamiliar with many of the dances listed there.)

The 1999 program isn't quite completed yet, but you can find our cumulative
list for the first four balls at:  

http://caligari.dartmouth.edu/~cgl/ball/alldances.html

David Millstone
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:14:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Favorite-dance lists
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990712141452.26471.rocketmail-AT-
web120.yahoomail.com>
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--- Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were
> > to publish a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years 
> > or so. Now that would let us see how trends bring new material in
> > and discard old, and what the true chestnuts are! (Emily
Ferguson)
> 
> I might have mentioned this before, but there is a dance community 
> in the UK ( around Stockton and Darlington) who run a "top twenty" 
> dance each year. Each club in the area votes for their favourite 
> dances and the 20 that receive the most votes get done.

Don't forget the CDS Boston Centre's "Fall Favorites" dance. Those
who buy their tickets ahead get to vote for five favorite dances.
Those with the highest votes comprise the program.
    There's a little help on the back of the flyer: a list of all the
dances done in the Centre during the past year--but one is not
limited to that list.

Lyrl Ahern

_________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:27:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:28:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990712142828.28557.rocketmail-AT-
web120.yahoomail.com>
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> At 09:02 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Howard Mitchell wrote:
> >Sharon Green wrote:
> >> 
> >> David and I just got back from England where, at Lichfield > >>
Festival, we attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's >
>> dances....all the dances he introduced were worth doing, and two >
>> of them were gems.
> >
> >I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to be gems. I 
> >recently came across some printed tunes and dances from 1809 and 
> >1819...So there is some material yet to be found but I have to >
>confess that the dances I turned up were nothing special.
> 
> My feeling is that if the music is wonderful, it's worth taking a
> serious look at the dance.  If the tune's not much, an otherwise 
> intriguing arrangement of figures is likely to fall flat.
> 
> Sharon Green

Another alternative for a dance which has great figures but a less
than memorable tune is to find a new tune for the dance. I seem to
remember that we dance Jack's Health, not to the original tune, but
to "Bolt the Door" from O'Neal, because Jim Morrison did the dance in
England and loved the figures but was less than impressed by the
tune.

Lyrl
 

_________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:04:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:39:24 +0000
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Levi Jackson Dance Weekend, Sept. 24-26, 1999
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199907121604.MAA102314-AT-
vm4-ext.prodigy.net>
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Just received the flyer for this year's dance weekend at Levi Jackson State
Park, in London, KY. The event will be September 24-26, 1999, and total
cost, including tuitiion, meals, and lodging is $50.00. Individual events
are pro-rated. To quote from the flyer:

"Started as the 'adult' section of the Mountain Folk Festival more than
forty-five years ago, the Levi Jackson Dance Weekend continues a tradtion
of cooperative fun and fellowship among experienced dancers. _It is for
adults only_. Dance calling and food preparation are a cooperative effort
from among the participants. Space for dancing at the park clubhouse is
limited; thus advance registration is appreciated for all events. Drop-ins
are asked to pay per session and to arrange for their own meals for the
weekend; food is pre-purchased only for the number who have pre-registered.
The Festival is held at Levi Jackson State Park on the southside of London,
KY. Follow signs from Interstate 75. For further information you may call
Joe Tarter (in Berea, KY - SB) at (606)986-1986. Phone number at Levi
Jackson State Park is (606) 878-8000 (for park information only). Cut-off
date for meals and lodging is Wednesday, September 22."

Additional info: This year's musicians include Toppy Kramer and Alice and
Al White. Housing is in unheated cabins with multiple bunkbeds with
mattresses.  There is electricity in the cabins, and a modern, heated
bathhouse. Bring sleeping bags and a pillow (prefered) or bed linens. Ky
can be either hot or cold in late September - a blanket is a good idea.
Bring your own towels and soap. The current clubhouse was completed about
three years ago following the fire which destroyed the original one. It is
rustic and attractive, with a fireplace, large ktichen, restrooms, water
fountains and a good wooden floor, included at the urgings of dancers.There
are also various chain motels in London, for those who don't enjoy roughing
it, and space for tents is available near the clubhouse. The hilly, wooded
park has a campground for camper vehicles, and I think hook-ups are
available there. Laurel County is officially dry, as is London and the
state park.

This weekend is great fun, and as was discussed here a while ago, the
inspiration for Pat Shaw's "Levi Jackson Rag". And if you burn out on
non-stop dancing, the incredible Chicken Festival is on concurrently in
London!

Hope to see you there-

Susan Booker
(Please note that I am NOT the registrant for this event!. Contact Joe
Tarter at the above number for more info., or write him for a flyer at 
Joe Tarter 
309 Jackson Street
Berea, KY 40403)




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:17:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 16:13:19 +0000
From: Mary Stafford <mes-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dance Lists
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01BECC81.9391B580-AT-
mes.world.std.com>
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I was quite interested in Bob Archer's note about a "Favorites" dance across the pond. It would be fun to see what we here in Boston have chosen over the last few years for our "Fall Favorites" dances. Arthur Ferguson- are you listening? Does anyone have the programmes for them? Could we show them here? I know they would reflect the huge repertoire we dance in this area, with some chestnuts but also some fine newer choices as well.

Mary Stafford
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:08:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 19:43:14 +0000
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Levi Jackson Weekend; CD Player?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199907130208.WAA117068-AT-
vm4-ext.prodigy.net>
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I neglected to say in my earlier post that the Levi Jackson Dance Weekend
(Sept. 24-26, 1999) is sponsored by the Folk Circle Association. Sorry to
have omitted mentioning this worthwhile group.

The Lexington (KY) Folk Dancers are considering purchasing a CD player with
variable speed and other features useful for dancing. If any of you can
report good or bad experiences with CD players currently on the market,
would you please respond privately to me? Thank you in advance for your
assistance.

Susan Booker
susantiq-AT-
prodigy.net
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 06:39:32 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:39:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Dance Lists
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907131339.JAA11800-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

We did such a tabulation of Boston Fall Favorites when choosing what tunes
would be recorded for the first two Boston CDS CD's.

Here are the big vote getters:

29	The Fandango
27	Dublin Bay
23	The Old Mill
23	Hambelton's Round O
22	Hudson Barn
20	St. Margaret's Hill
18	From Aberdeen
16	The Punchbowl
16	Quite Carr-ied Away
16	Levi Jackson Rag
16	Irish Lamentation
15	Knives and Forks
14	Miss De Jersey's Memorial
13	Sally in Our Alley
13	Nonesuch
12	John Tallis' Canon
11	Sun Assembly
10	Bonny Cuckoo
 9	Smithy Hill
 9	Heidenroslein
 9	Bryon's Boutade
 8	Prince William
 7	Rose of Sharon
 7	Orleans Baffled
 6	Mr. Beveridge's Maggot
 6	Long Live London
 5	Well Hall
 5	Wedding of Mai & David
 5	Kelsterne Gardens
 5	Joy after Sorrow
 5	Bellamira
 5	Easter Morn
 4	Wa' is Me
 4	Trip to Paris
 4	K & E
 4	Introduction
 4	Fair and Softly
 4	Elverton Grove
 4	Delia
 4	Bury Fair
 4	Easter Thursday
 4	Barham Down
 3	Wood Duck
 3	Up With Aily
 3	Trip to Kilburn
 3	Siege of Limerick
 3	Shrewsbury Lasses
 3	Round About Our Coal FIre
 3      Hole in the Wall
 3	Lili Burlero
 3	Jack's Maggot
 3	Female Saylor
 3	Elizabeth
 3	Apley House

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:20:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:02:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Advice on scheduling wanted
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990713160203.28506.rocketmail-AT-
web1.rocketmail.com>
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Thanks to all of you, especially from out of town, who came to the
last summer Branford dance on Friday.  It was a wonderful, exuberant
end to our series, the sort of evening that makes the effort that
goes into organizing a dance series seem a trivial investment of
work for such a rich return of joy (to paraphrase Mark Twain).

Now I'd like to get opinions on scheduling a dance - especially from
those who might be interested in traveling to it.  Halloween this
year falls on a 5th weekend.  Which means there is no regular New
Haven English dance - which means an opportunity or an obligation
(depending on how one looks at it) for a "special" Halloween
Branford English dance party sponsored by New Haven Country Dancers.
 We do have a contra on that Saturday night, so that date is out. (I
have found that scheduling against our own events is generally a bad
idea, especially when they are in the same location.  If you think
that trying to be in two places at one time is tough, try being two
events in one place at the same time).  Assuming I can get the hall,
I am wondering whethering to schedule it for Friday night, Oct. 29
or Sunday afternoon, October 31, which also happens to Halloween. 
Regular English dances are Friday nights, so people are used to
coming out then, but people also tend to be tired on Fridays and it
takes a certain effort to get up and going at the end of a work day.
 On the other hand, it takes a certain effort to get up and going at
the end of a weekend, on Sunday afternoon.

So what do people think?  Would you be more likely to come to a
Halloween dance party on a Friday night or Sunday afternoon?  For
other dance organizers, if I book it for one of those two times am I
conflicting with other nearby events - Westchester or Amherst?

Barbara Ruth
New Haven
_________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:10:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Advice on scheduling wanted
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990713100613.24839C-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Can't say either alternative sounds great. Friday night not only has the 
problem of people being tired after a long day; it also makes it harder 
for folks who are coming from farther away to make it. And Sunday 
afternoon, for people with kids, conflicts with trick-or-treating, unless 
you end the dance by 4pm, which is a tad early.

Is a joint dance with the contra folks out of the question? Or an 8pm 
Sunday ball (still bad for the out-of-towners, I know)?

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:25:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:24:02 -0400
From: pam-AT-
tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Grand March
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <99071323240201-AT-
tedcrane.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

My thanks to everyone who sent suggestions
on how to lead a Grand March.
The wedding dance went beautifully.
There were more people than I expected for the Grand March,
and so we had some traffic back ups - but everyone had fun.

I'm glad you are all out there as a resource.

-Pamela Goddard
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 07:17:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:13:26 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Colonial Ball...
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <199907141016_MC2-7CE2-E18F-AT-
compuserve.com>
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Hi all -
 of Nancy Hoffmann's ball list:
Sweets of May     - an Irish set dance, four couples in a square
Thady U Gander    - one of my absolute favorites, four couples set         
                    English traditional
Varsovienne       - likely one of the Scandinavian couple dances, ALL
                    Scand. countries have them, I use the Swedish one in 
                    international folk dancing
Merry Widow Waltz - another 19th century couple dance, inspired by the
                    operetta tune
Polka Quadrille   - could be from anywhere including Mexico and Germany
Valse Espagnole   - 19th century couple dance

Hanny                  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:25:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 10:28:32 -0700
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition
To: quale-AT-
cs.swarthmore.edu
CC: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907151728.KAA00088-AT-
seki.mcs>
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Hi Will,

> i've heard tell of an older traditional swarthmore maypole dance, which
> was set up like two sets of dargasson at right angles, with pole at the
> center.  i haven't found instructions yet, though.  if anyone out there
> has seen or remembers this dance, please contact me!  i'd love to revive
> it once i learn it.

This is a long-delayed response to your question.  The first folkdances
I ever learned were the "Swedish Weaving Dance" and the Dargason/Maypole
dance, for which I was recruited as an able-bodied male during my
sophomoric year at Swarthmore.  My senior year, I taught the dance not
only to a group of Swarthmore students, but also to a group of Bryn Mawr
students, who wanted to present an alternative to the aesthetically
random maple races that took place at the May Day celebration each
year.  I wrote up complete direction, including carefully calibrated
ASCII diagrams, I think for both dances, which I left in hardcopy and
electronic form on the college's already outdated PRIME computer.  I
hope eventually to come across my copy in some old filebox, but am still
looking at the moment.  

What I heard of the history of the Maypole dance is that it was
choreographed by Irene Moll, who taught folkdancing out of the PE
department for many years until she retired sometime in the seventies.
We always did it to a old '78 recording of "Christchurch Bells", in the
Vaughn-Williams band orchestration, complete with booming bells.  I'm
told that Buildings and Grounds lost the maypole for us at some point,
and wonder if/when it's been found.  It made the trip to and from Bryn
Mawr several times before that happened.  I'd love to hear from anyone
who can correct or amplify this history

As I recall, the version of Dargason we did was very similar to what you
would find in Sharp, except that there was this pole in the middle,
which functioned as a rotary for the two perpendicular lines.  There was
no real interaction between the two lines, since the only real chance
occurred while one was dashing around the pole at the end of the phrase
to progress, trying to make it look easy.  

BTW, I think at one point you were interested in databases of folkdance
recordings, and I'm not sure whether I sent the information about the
MIT Folk Dance Club Record Runner's Guide, which is in easily-importable
ASCII (and other) formats at:
>         http://seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~troby/fdcat.html
If you're still working on an electronic catalog of the Swarthmore
collection, it might save you some keystrokes, since there's substantial
overlap.  

				Tom '85
Tom Roby                                      Department of Math & CS
metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu                 California State University
[Fax] 510-885-4169                            25800 Carlos Bee Blvd.
[Off] 510-885-2691                            Hayward, CA 94542-3092
              http://seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~troby 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 15:06:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 18:06:25 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Top50 ECD form
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205501b3b40ab99c4e-AT-
[206.72.193.188]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

For everyone interested in compiling our own list of Top50 ECD's - 
there's now an online form that can be used.

http://www.albany.net/~mgoodman/top50.html

Please note that you may want to spend some time with paper and 
pencil first. You must fill out all 50 slots in order to submit the 
form.

I will not release names or email addresses in any compilation and 
all the information at the top is optional. I thought it might be 
interesting to get a sense for where folks are from, how long they've 
been dancing etc.

Any problems or questions, please email me:  mailto:mgoodman-AT-
albany.net
Daytime users:  mailto:marybg-AT-
tripod.com

Thanks and look forward to the results.  I'll give it awhile to allow 
for ongoing summer dance camps, eh?

Mary Beth Goodman
bean counter
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:34:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:24:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
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References: Conversation <199907151728.KAA00088-AT-
seki.mcs> with last message <199907151728.KAA00088-AT-
seki.mcs>

I'm a little confused about this maypole dance.  Did they do the weaving-ribbon thing, or were they just dancing around the pole?

Marian

> As I recall, the version of Dargason we did was very similar to what you
> would find in Sharp, except that there was this pole in the middle,
> which functioned as a rotary for the two perpendicular lines.  There was
> no real interaction between the two lines, since the only real chance
> occurred while one was dashing around the pole at the end of the phrase
> to progress, trying to make it look easy.
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 23:42:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:34:10 -0400
From: sheilab-AT-
tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: EARLY DANCE at Amherst (Tufts) Aug 1-15
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0153050eb3b5d3abd0ea-AT-
[206.119.246.114]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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[forwarded on behalf of Amherst Early Music]
If you're curious about the historical roots of ECD, you may
find some interesting connections through court dance in the
17th & 18th centuries.

Dorothy Olsson, who heads the early dance program at Amherst,
also teaches historical dance at Pinewoods Early Music Week and
in association with CDS*NY (hope I got that right!)....


THE AMHERST EARLY MUSIC FESTIVAL
at TUFTS UNIVERSITY MEDFORD, MASS.
August 1 to 8 and 8-15, 1999

Music of Germany: Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque
The Amherst Early Music Festival is the largest festival of its kind in the
Western Hemisphere. It offers two weeks of classes in early music at all
levels for amateurs and professionals, several specialized workshops, a
public concert series, and associated concurrent events.

Director: Valerie Horst
Associate Director: Gwyn Roberts
Assistant Directors: Patricia Petersen, Wendy Powers,
        David Tayler, Frances Blaker


DANCE PROGRAM & EVENTS

I. SUMMARY OF PROGRAMS
Amherst Early Music Workshops
First Week, August 1-8:   Historical Dance & Theatre
Renaissance & Baroque; historical dance for ballet dancers;
beginning Renaissance dance.
Performance opportunity this week in Theatre Project:
"Ballet of the Twelve Nations," created at the 17th-c. court
at Stuttgart.

  Grant Herreid  (Week I only)
  Kaspar Mainz
  Carol Marsh  (Week I only)
  Dorothy Olsson

Second Week, August 8-15:   Historical Dance & Theatre
Renaissance & Baroque; historical dance for ballet dancers; beginning
Renaissance dance.  Performance opportunity this week in
Baroque Academy program.
  Kaspar Mainz
  Dorothy Olsson


Kaspar Mainz, German historical dance specialist, is an extraordinary
dancer, teacher and choreographer with a tremendous knowledge of
historical dance. Formerly of the Leipzig Ballet, Mr. Mainz is well known
in Europe for his research and reconstruction of historical dance. In the
last 5 years he has collaborated as dancer, choreographer, and teacher
in a number of theatrical concert programs, with more than 200
performances in Germany, Austria, and Luxembourg. Currently he is
preparing a theater piece with music and dance on the life and work of
Handel, in which he will play the lead role; the premiere will take place
this June at the Handel Festival in Halle. He has taught at a number of
European universities, including the University of Leipzig (dance history
department), Salzburg University (musicology department), Salzburg
Mozarteum (theatre department), and the University of Graz.


TRAVEL
Tufts is accessible from I 95, I 495, Routes 1, 2, 3, 9, 28, 93, and the
Mass. Turnpike.  Nearest Airport is Boston's Logan.  Van and cab service
are available from the airport; Boston's subway (the "T") goes to nearby
Davis Square, with a short bus hop to the campus, so lightly laden,
budget-minded travelers can travel from the airport or South Station
(Amtrak) to Tufts for 85 cents!  Make airline reservations early for best
fares; see Schedule, above, for suggested arrival and departure times.

ABOUT TUFTS UNIVERSITY
Founded in 1852, Tufts is the second-oldest university in the Boston area.
It is situated on a hill northwest of Boston, on the border between
Somerville and Medford, with a striking view of the Boston skyline.  The
tree-shaded campus was recently declared an arboretum.  Amenities include a
pool, tennis courts, gym, and track.  Participants will be housed in an
apartment-style dormitory convenient to the dining hall, concert hall and
most classes, with choice of private or double room.  Excellent meat and
vegetarian meals are served in the air-conditioned dining room.

FURTHER INFORMATION
If you have any questions, please contact Valerie Horst at Amherst Early
Music, 65 West 95th Street #1A, New York, NY 10025-6796.  Phone:
212-222-3351; fax: 212-222-1898; e-mail: amherst-AT-
compuserve.com
Web:  www.best.com/~aem
__________________________________________________

VIII. ENROLLMENT INFORMATION AND APPLICATION FORM
        Please read this section carefully before applying!
FEES
--Tuition (includes admission to all concerts and special events)
         Central Program: $375 per week.

NOTE:  >>Tuition discount for students attending both weeks in any
combination of programs: $100 <<

Work-study Aid
Aid for tuition is available; check box below to receive application, and
send form with a tuition deposit of $100/wk (this is the minimum tuition
required of all students) plus the Registration Fee (after May 20). If AEM
cannot award sufficient aid for you to attend, your deposit will be
refunded.

--Registration Fee: $25, non-refundable, not included in tuition. Those
auditioning for a program with a higher tuition may avoid the Registration
Fee by sending in the full Central Program tuition before May 20; if not
accepted, you may elect to get a refund of all $25 or to have your payment
applied to the Central Program.

--Room & Board:  Private room--$395 per week, as available (apply early).
Double occupancy--$365 per week per person.  You will be billed for R & B
in June.  A small amount of lower-cost housing is available for work-study
students.

--Transient Housing:  $40 per night (double occupancy) or $50 per night
(single).

--Campus Use Fee for students not residing on campus: $90 per week (charged
by Tufts).

Forms of Payment: Amherst Early Music can accept US dollars only. Fees can
be paid by credit card, for a 3% service charge; send type of card (MC,
VISA, or AmEx), number, expiration date, your name as it appears on the
card, the amount you wish to charge (don't forget to include the 3%
surcharge), and your signature.

ENROLLMENT
All applications MUST be accompanied by payment (either full tuition
payment  or registration fee of $25 and tuition deposit of $100 per week;
applicants to higher-priced programs need pay only Central Program tuition
before 5/20 to avoid the Registration Fee). Tuition money is fully
refundable till June 1, all but $50 till July 1, all but $100 after July 1;
no refunds after July 31. Exception for work-study students: if we cannot
provide enough assistance for your needs, your deposit will be refunded in
full. All applicants will receive detailed information about classes,
housing, travel, and scheduling in June.

You may enroll in one of three ways:
a)  Apply by e-mail!  Complete the application form below, including your
computations and credit card info; e-mail it to amherst-AT-
compuserve.com   DO
NOT USE THE REPLY FUNCTION!

b)  Print out the form below, fill it in, and mail it with your check made
out to Amherst Early Music, to:
Amherst Early Music, 65 West 95th Street #1A, New York, NY 10025-6796

c)  Use a paper brochure (remember paper?). If you are on our mailing list,
you should have received a paper copy of the brochure and application by now.
If you want to apply by brochure but suspect you are not on our mailing
list, or
if you can't come to the workshop but would like to be on our mailing list any
way, just fill in the blanks below down through "INSTRUMENT" and e-mail it
to us at amherst-AT-
compuserve.com  and you will receive communications from
us for life!

[[[The Amherst Early Music Festival is an activity of Amherst Early Music,
Inc., which reserves the right to modify programs and faculty rosters in
response to enrollment and student preferences.  Amherst Early Music is a
not-for-profit arts corporation (ID# 13-3345308) which relies for its
support on the generosity of corporate and individual donors. All donations
are fully tax-deductible under the law.]]]

Amherst Early Music, 65 West 95th Street #1A, New York, NY 10025-6796
phone: 212-222-3351, fax: 212-222-1898
e-mail: amherst-AT-
compuserve.com
website: www.best.com/~aem
___________________________________________

APPLICATION FORM

NAME:
ADDRESS:
CITY:
STATE:
ZIP+4 OR POSTAL CODE:
COUNTRY:

HOME PHONE:
DAY PHONE (if different from above):
FAX:
E-MAIL ADDRESS:

DANCE EXPERIENCE:




I need to receive forms for work-study tuition aid___

FULL TUITION:
REGISTRATION FEE:       $25
SUBTOTAL:
3% SURCHARGE FOR CREDIT CARD PAYMENT:
TAX-DEDUCTIBLE CONTRIBUTION:
TOTAL:

CREDIT CARD TYPE:
YOUR NAME AS  IT APPEARS ON THE CARD:
CREDIT CARD NUMBER:
EXPIRATION DATE:
________________________________________

I would like to enroll in:
Workshop Central Program:
1st week__
2nd week__
both weeks__
Note here if you are applying solely or primarily to study in a particular
program or with a particular faculty member:

_________________________________________________

I need to receive application forms for Work/Study tuition aid__

Sheila Beardslee Bosworth        sheilab-AT-
tiac.net
Editor, Boston Early Music News   Deadline  Aug 25 for Sept 15  issue
    FALL PREVIEW ISSUE includes Events Sept. 15-Dec. 31
    WEB Calendar  http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/
Pavane  website http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~nhmuse/Pavane

29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505
VOX  978/263.9926      FAX  978/263.2366




================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:16:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 08:15:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JDNWXOXKV69UMFNS-AT-
amherst.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
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Hi, all,

The Maypole dance had two distinct Parts.  Part I was Dargason danced in
two perpendicular lines with the mypole as the center, as described; there
were no ribbons involved (it was enough of a challenge just dashing around
the pole, thank you very much!); Part II was the winding of the maypole,
with Irene Moll's choreography, reverently passed down through generations
of dancers, long after Irene's retirement.  

O halcyon days...

Robin Hayden
who didn't mean to use the past tense :)
and who is departing for Early Music Week at Pinewoods in a few hours --
looking forward to seeing some of you there!
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:47:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 08:35:26 -0400
From: Michael Bergman <eclectic-AT-
mit.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04011701b3b6282876a6-AT-
[24.128.25.60]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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SO, I'm confused as well, but on a different point.  Am I correct in
thinking that you mean that you split the Dargason set in the center and
rotated the men's line (or the women's) 90 degrees?  What purpose did that
serve?  Why not just have the men facing the women and vice versa (as
normal), with the pole in the center of the set?

Or did you mean two complete dargason sets, 90 degrees apart, with some
sort of additional interaction between the two sets?

--Mike Bergman


>Hi, all,
>
>The Maypole dance had two distinct Parts.  Part I was Dargason danced in
>two perpendicular lines with the mypole as the center, as described; there
>were no ribbons involved (it was enough of a challenge just dashing around
>the pole, thank you very much!); Part II was the winding of the maypole,
>with Irene Moll's choreography, reverently passed down through generations
>of dancers, long after Irene's retirement.
>
>O halcyon days...
>
>Robin Hayden
>who didn't mean to use the past tense :)
>and who is departing for Early Music Week at Pinewoods in a few hours --
>looking forward to seeing some of you there!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 07:05:15 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:05:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dargason around the Maypole
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JDO0ZH04HE9UMFOL-AT-
amherst.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Or did you mean two complete dargason sets, 90 degrees apart, with some
sort of additional interaction between the two sets?<

This is how it went.  In the center, all four middle people would side
around the pole and then swivel around it to change places with their
opposite.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:31:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:27:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dargason around the Maypole
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
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References: Conversation <01JDO0ZH04HE9UMFOL-AT-
amherst.edu> with last message <01JDO0ZH04HE9UMFOL-AT-
amherst.edu>

Tom -

Can you describe the choreography of the weaving-the-ribbons part?  The only two maypole windings I've seen have had a pretty simple system -- all the even-numbered dancers went clockwise, all the odd-numbered dancers went counter-clockwise, and as dancers approached you, you passed them alternately on the right or left.  Was the Swarthmore dance more complex?  I'm not that familiar with maypole dancing; it never actually occurred to me that there might be many different dances for the ribbon part -- but now, of course, I'm slapping my forehead and going "Doh!"

Marian


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:22:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:26:36 -0700
From: metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Swarthmore's Dargason/Maypole tradition
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907182126.OAA06558-AT-
seki.mcs>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Mike Bergman writes:
> Or did you mean two complete dargason sets, 90 degrees apart, with some
> sort of additional interaction between the two sets?

Sorry to be unclear in my original message.  Yes, there were two
complete dargason sets, totally sixteen dancers, arranged one set
perpendicular to the other.  I don't recall any substantial interaction
between the sets, other than (optional) trodding on the heels of the
slowpoke in front of you going around the pole to progress.  

Which reminds me of another Swarthmore Parents' Day performance where we
did "Waters of Holland" (This was not long after the first Bare
Necessities album came out.)  Although this is a mixer, we expected to
get our original partners back at the end of three times.  I was
surprised to find myself bowing to "Henry" at the end, while "Margaret"
and "Alison" gracefully curtsied to each other.  I hope I wiped the
astonishment off my face in time, and we exited as if nothing had
happened.  But it was the kind of mistake that even the untrained
observer would have easily caught.  

Any other stories about performances gone awry?  

				Tom
Tom Roby                                      Department of Math & CS
metis-AT-
seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu                 California State University
[Fax] 510-885-4169                            25800 Carlos Bee Blvd.
[Off] 510-885-2691                            Hayward, CA 94542-3092
              http://seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~troby 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:16:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:15:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Unfounded speculation about motivation for Early American publication
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JDRK3RG6I29JF0HP-AT-
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Folks --

I organized a demo of Mr. Turner's Academy Cotillion (per Morrison's
instructions) at Mendocino English Week.  (The week, incidentally, was
_wonderful_, but I'm a committee member and shouldn't brag.  Any other 
attendees have any comments?) This required a focus on footwork.

I got to wondering about Morrison, Keller & Sweet, and Hendrickson.  We know
that Sharp, and his followers, pretty much ignored any question of footwork
in reconstructing dances, developing a style that's accessible but 
(presumably) historically incorrect.  (It happens to be a style that I love,
and I think is worth doing, but it _is_ bogus.)

The obvious motivation for publishing the Early American dance books that came
out in 1975 (Morrison, Keller & Sweet) was the imminent Bicentennial.  It
clearly made sense to use renewed interest in the 1700s as a means to push
country dancing.  [It would appear that what we actually got in the US was an
upsurge of interest in contradancing, not English or Early American. I can't
seem to locate my copy of "Heritage Dances of Early America" or whatever the
Ralph Page book is actually called, and I'm not sure of the publication date. 
Anyway, it seems to be looking at contras.]  So, here were these books, which
were not only published by CDSS, but supported with (very nice) recordings of
the music, also from CDSS.  These books are fairly serious about footwork, with 
steps called out in the descriptions and glossaries in the back.  (The recent
Hendrickson books go even further in this direction.)

My question is, what was going on?  Were the authors trying to get footwork
back into country dancing through the back door?  Was CDSS trying to grow a new
population of dancers who did footwork?  Was it just a desire for authenticity,
or a covert rebellion against Sharp?  Was it two mutually exclusive impulses,
one for promoting country dance with the Bicentennial, one for authenticity
that shot down the accessibility of the dance form?  What were they trying to
do, 24 years ago, and do they think it worked?

[Incidentally, John Millar's big book has no footwork in it and came out
initially a bit early for the Bicentennial boom.  I discussed this general
topic with him in March, and he believes that Sharp's interpretations are
historically correct; the English (and thus the colonists) didn't do any but
the simplest footwork (walk, run, skip, set) until after the French Revolution
unleashed a plague of French dancing masters on English soil, whose emphasis on
footwork is what killed country dancing in England.  I didn't get a chance to
ask why English dancing masters sponsored the English publication of Feuillet
in that case.]

[Incidentally again, I think this footwork stuff is also fun, and am perfectly
happy to have a category of dance called "Early American" which consists of 
1770-1800 dance published in the colonies and the US and done in what seems to
have been perfectly normal European style of that period, and have that coexist
with "ECD" which might be the same dances done in Sharp style.  I don't think
this requires rectification; I'm just interested.]

[And for further clarification, I'm pleased and grateful that these books
and tapes exist, and I like doing the dances and really enjoy the quotations in
Morrison.  Those books appear to be labors of love, and I appreciate them
greatly.]

If anybody on this list has inside knowledge, or is in a position to inquire of
the relevant players without giving offense, what they were trying to do and
whether they think it worked, I'd be most interested to hear the answer.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:57:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:57:24 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation about motivation for Early American publication
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <379439f4.1f6a.0-AT-
jps.net>
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Alan wrote (among other things):
>
>I got to wondering about Morrison, Keller & Sweet, and Hendrickson.  We know

>that Sharp, and his followers, pretty much ignored any question of footwork

>in reconstructing dances, developing a style that's accessible but 
>(presumably) historically incorrect.
>
>The obvious motivation for publishing the Early American dance books that came

>out in 1975 (Morrison, Keller & Sweet) was the imminent Bicentennial.  It
>clearly made sense to use renewed interest in the 1700s as a means to push

>country dancing.  [It would appear that what we actually got in the US was
an
>upsurge of interest in contradancing, not English or Early American...]
             <<snip>> 
These books are fairly serious about footwork, with 
>steps called out in the descriptions and glossaries in the back.  (The recent

>Hendrickson books go even further in this direction.)
>
>My question is, what was going on?  Were the authors trying to get footwork

>back into country dancing through the back door?  Was CDSS trying to grow a
new
>population of dancers who did footwork?  Was it just a desire for authenticity,

>or a covert rebellion against Sharp?  Was it two mutually exclusive impulses,

>one for promoting country dance with the Bicentennial, one for authenticity

>that shot down the accessibility of the dance form?  What were they trying
to
>do, 24 years ago, and do they think it worked?
>

Having been around when those books were published, my memory of that time is
that they were an attempt at interpreting the dances with historical authenticity.
There was certainly no "conspiracy" to make the dances overly complicated thus
making them inaccessible. Certainly from what I know of Jim and Chip, in their
interpretations they both attempt to interpret their sources as accurately as
possible. Jim Morrison flatly refuses to teach any dance using Sharp's interpretation
of siding. He says, "Sharp made it up." I told Christine Helwig about this after
spending a week in Jim's class at KSDS in 1986. Christine's response was, "What's
wrong with 90 years of tradition?" Should Sharp be rejected out of hand because
he interpreted something differently or "made it up"? We've been using his interpretations
for a hundred years now and even if they are not "authentic" I still like them.
On the other hand the interpretations of Jim, Chip, Pat Shaw and others add
a new challenge to those of us who have been at this for years. I must say that
as I get older it is harder to contort myself into some of the odder positions.


As for the proliferation of Contra about the time of the Bicentennial, I think
that is more coincidence than anything. There may have been a push at that time
to increase CDSS membership through interest in the Early American Dances, but
the traditions behind Contra are lost on dancers over much of the country. Having
spent 1973 to 1989 in New England where the traditional is still a part of life,
I can tell you that it is the biggest difference in the dance community in the
Northwest. It is not old enough to have established very much tradition yet.
Most of the callers don't know the traditions let alone the dancers. 

Where the upsurge has been in Contra rather than English or Early American,
I know that many Contradancers find English inaccessible. It is much more structured
in the teaching and interpretaion. People are scared off by that. Once they
begin to learn to dance, some of them find they like the English better. Some
of the reason for that is that Contradancing tends to be rough and people are
tired of getting injured by other dancers. That seldom happens with English.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 03:32:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:32:19 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation about motivation for Early American publication
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007800b3b9c296795f-AT-
[140.186.62.138]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Having been there at that time, I understood the entire thing to be a
research project with no particular agenda to chage Sharp's effect.  I
never saw Jim uncomfortable with our no-longer-bogus style of movement, in
fact he's still a spectacular dancer, one of the lovliest around.  If
anything, he really wanted to bring these dances and their style of
movement to light, so they could be published and used by whomever was
attracted to them.  If they did not attract the general English Country
Dancer, as far as I could tell that was fine by Jim.

Some of the research brought to life some dances which we now do in our
modern style.  In my opinion, they fare somewhat the worse for our lack of
understanding of their context, but I believe that's because there is such
a range of skill among the dancers, and because these dances have been
superceded in the ebb and flow of repertoire by many more attractive ones.

Just at the beginning of June I went to a minuet workshop at the Boston
Early Music Festival and enquired about our dances and how they were
managed by the people of their own period.  The teacher declared that
generally they were just "minuetted through" by the people of their period.

It certainly would be interesting to do this long enough to begin to
assimilate the concept to the extent that we have all assimilated and
worked out the details of Sharp's invented style.

I believe Ralph's book is much earlier, isn't it?

Check with the revivalists - Laufman, Parkes, Jennings - about the
influence of Ralph's book vs. the influence of their own lifestyle choices
and their creative energy on current contra dancing.  I believe they'll
cite their contact with Ralph as key to their impact, but, as a Tony Parkes
contra dancer of the mid-70's at the Scout House, I experienced Tony's
creative energy as the launch for the current changes.  This is not to say
that Tony launched the all-crossed-over-and-everything-the-same movement I
see now.  But he brought a exploratory mind to the form, melding influences
into something with a totally different energy than I ever saw Ralph do.

Of course, Ralph was very old by the time I ever saw him do anything.


                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:49:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 17:06:03 +0100
From: mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com (Mary Devlin)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Labor Day Dance Camp in Oregon!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b01b3b93c5730db-AT-
[216.26.11.152]>
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Greetings!

Just in case you're casting about for something wonderful to do over the
Labor Day weekend... come join us in Oregon. If you've already signed up
for
camp or have other plans for Labor Day weekend, 1999, please pass this
on to other dancers who you think might be interested with our thanks.  If
you're still looking for a wonderful way to spend the long weekend,
please read on.

                 -------------------------

Join us in the beautiful Oregon Cascades for a Labor Day weekend of English
country dance, ceilidh, rapper contras, singing and music workshops at the
Portland Country Dance Community's Dance and Music Weekend at Suttle Lake,
September 3-6, 1999!

Staff include caller Marian Rose (Vancouver) with Grand Picnic (New York),
caller John Turner (England) with Belshazzar's Feast (England), and Dave
Macemon (Portland) teaching rapper with fiddling by Michael Gorin (NY).

The weekend will not only feature great dancing and music led by
international talent, but also many friendly faces, gourmet meals, and a
peaceful mountain setting with tall trees, clean air, and (almost
certainly) sunny days and comfortably cool nights.  September in Oregon is
gorgeous!

For more information and to print a registration form, please visit
the PCDC Suttle Lake Dance Camp webpage at
http://www.aone.com/~kluberg/suttle.html

The early application deadline has been extended to August 1.
Hope to see you at Suttle!

Mary Devlin
mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:19:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation about motivation for Early American publication
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <379439f4.1f6a.0-AT-
jps.net> with last message <379439f4.1f6a.0-AT-
jps.net>

 "Sharp made it up."

You know, this brings up something that I've been curious about.  According to the intro to _The Playford Ball_ by Kate Van Winkle Keller and Genevieve Shimer:

***

Returning to "this very troublesome figure [siding]" in 1922, [Sharp] suggested that, if, "instead of turning, the dancers were to 'fall back to places' along their own tracks, the Side would then be identical with the Morris figure of Half-hands, or Half-gip.  And this, I suspect, may prove to be the correct interpretation."

But by then his dance interpretations were entrenched both in England and in America, and he found to his dismay that he could not convince his followers to change the figure.  It was not until the 1970's, when Pat Shaw presented his reconstructions from Feuillet and Essex, and demonstrated the accuracy of Sharp's early observation, that the dance public was willing to consider the "side" as a shoulder-to-shoulder movement.

***

It seems like pretty hard lines for Sharp to have corrected his earlier mistake, only to have it rejected by dancers, and then have it not only named for someone else who discovered it later but also to spend eternity being castigated for "getting it wrong."

By the way -- can someone recommend a good book discussing ECD and the revival?

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:29:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:20:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dargason around the Maypole
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <01JDO0ZH04HE9UMFOL-AT-
amherst.edu> with last message <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>

In an earlier post I said:

> Can you describe the choreography of the weaving-the-ribbons part?

...my apologies for asking about something that had already been thoroughly discussed (I wasn't receiving the list at the time).  I've searched the archive under "maypole" and had the question answered to my complete satisfaction.

God, I love the archive.  I've had to cut myself off and not look at it at work; no work at all was getting done (in my cubicle, at least) the first day I discovered it.

Marian


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 20:59:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:48:59 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Top50 ECD form
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205504b3baf35d4174-AT-
[206.72.193.207]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Welcome back campers!  Just in case you had unsubscribed while 
away..... and while all the dances are fresh in your mind.

For everyone interested in compiling our own list of Top50 ECD's - 
there's now an online form that can be used.

http://www.albany.net/~mgoodman/top50.html

Please note that you may want to spend some time with paper and 
pencil first. You must fill out all 50 slots in order to submit the 
form.

I will not release names or email addresses in any compilation and 
all the information at the top is optional. I thought it might be 
interesting to get a sense for where folks are from, how long they've 
been dancing etc.

Any problems or questions, please email me:  mailto:mgoodman-AT-
albany.net
Daytime users:  mailto:marybg-AT-
tripod.com

Thanks and look forward to the results.

Mary Beth Goodman
bean counter
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:47:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:46:47 -0400
From: Lou Vosteen <lvosteen-AT-
widomaker.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded spec
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110702b3bb8aebd33b-AT-
[209.96.178.125]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Alan wrote, in part:


> This required a focus on footwork.
>
>I got to wondering about Morrison, Keller & Sweet, and Hendrickson.  We know
>that Sharp, and his followers, pretty much ignored any question of footwork
>in reconstructing dances, developing a style that's accessible but
>(presumably) historically incorrect.  (It happens to be a style that I love,
>and I think is worth doing, but it _is_ bogus.)
>
>The obvious motivation for publishing the Early American dance books that came
>out in 1975 (Morrison, Keller & Sweet) was the imminent Bicentennial.  It
>clearly made sense to use renewed interest in the 1700s as a means to push
>country dancing.
>
>My question is, what was going on?  Were the authors trying to get footwork
>back into country dancing through the back door?  Was CDSS trying to grow
>a new
>population of dancers who did footwork?  Was it just a desire for
>authenticity,
>or a covert rebellion against Sharp?  Was it two mutually exclusive impulses,
>one for promoting country dance with the Bicentennial, one for authenticity
>that shot down the accessibility of the dance form?  What were they trying to
>do, 24 years ago, and do they think it worked?
>
>[Incidentally again, I think this footwork stuff is also fun, and am perfectly
>happy to have a category of dance called "Early American" which consists of
>1770-1800 dance published in the colonies and the US and done in what seems to
>have been perfectly normal European style of that period, and have that
>coexist
>with "ECD" which might be the same dances done in Sharp style.  I don't think
>this requires rectification; I'm just interested.]
>
>If anybody on this list has inside knowledge, or is in a position to
>inquire of
>the relevant players without giving offense, what they were trying to do and
>whether they think it worked, I'd be most interested to hear the answer.
>
>-- Alan


For an excellent review of footwork in colonial dancing with numerous
references to historical documetation, I recommend you look at "If the
Company can do it!" by Kate Keller. It's available from CDSS and from The
Hendrickson Group at http://members.aol.com/dance18thc.

Lou


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 07:50:48 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 10:46:55 +0100
From: bromka-AT-
flash.net (Sondra Bromka)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: archives
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b00b3bb41e40f93-AT-
[38.26.155.148]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

How do I access the dance archives?
Can't wait...


Bells & Motley Consort
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1558/


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 12:52:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 15:51:17 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Band Compensation
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0213054ab3bbcfbaa981-AT-
[155.33.181.197]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dear Friends,
 Here in Boston, we've been thinking about the issue of how much to pay our
regular weekly band. It would be a help to us if you would write to me at
Gaff-AT-
neu.edu and let me know how much you pay the musicians  who do your
weekly dance. (If you don't have a weekly series, we'd still like to hear
from you.)  Without disclosing any information about particular groups or
locations, I'll report on averages, highs and lows.

Thanks very much.
 Best,
 Terry Gaffney


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:27:18 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 20:18:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: archives
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <v01540b00b3bb41e40f93-AT-
[38.26.155.148]> with last message <v01540b00b3bb41e40f93-AT-
[38.26.155.148]>

Uh oh....would somebody be willing to help me out here?  I know this sounds lame, but once I put the archive on my favorites list I kind of forgot how I got there.  Either I did an online search, or Alan Winston posted the info to the list; after that it passed into the part of my mind labelled "Magic."  Unfortunately, the computer where I look at the archive is at a different location than the one where I receive the list.

Oh dear, an email full of lame excuses....

Marian

----------
> How do I access the dance archives?
> Can't wait...
>
>
> Bells & Motley Consort
> http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/1558/
>
>
>


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:00:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:05:18 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Colonial Ball...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990721220518.007bce90-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 10:13 AM 7/14/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi all -
> of Nancy Hoffmann's ball list:
>Sweets of May     - an Irish set dance, four couples in a square
>Thady U Gander    - one of my absolute favorites, four couples set         
>                    English traditional
>Varsovienne       - likely one of the Scandinavian couple dances, ALL
>                    Scand. countries have them, I use the Swedish one in 
>                    international folk dancing
>Merry Widow Waltz - another 19th century couple dance, inspired by the
>                    operetta tune
>Polka Quadrille   - could be from anywhere including Mexico and Germany
>Valse Espagnole   - 19th century couple dance
>
>Hanny                  


I always thought Thady U Gander was early American and originally Welsh.
Anyone else have info on the origin of this dance?  

Vicky

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:35:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 22:35:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: archives
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JDUCE4V9KI9JFUV8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

A reminder on using the archives:

Go to <http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.htmlx> and follow
links from there to get to either the downloadable monthly archive or 
the online complete archive.  If you use the complete archive without 
putting in a subject line, prepare to wait a while.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:17:25 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 00:17:08 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <3796c574.5028.0-AT-
jps.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>Marian Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:
>
>It seems like pretty hard lines for Sharp to have corrected his earlier mistake,
only to have it rejected by dancers, and >then have it not only named for someone
else who discovered it later but also to spend eternity being castigated for
>"getting it wrong."
>

But in "getting it wrong" he created a figure that I think is much more intimate
than the shoulder to shoulder move. It is more like a gypsy done part way one
direction and back again.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 01:52:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 09:50:56 +0100 (BST)
From: Dr Paul Davis <paul.davis-AT-
computing-services.oxford.ac.uk>
Subject: Between the Bays Dance Camp, Update
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <SIMEON.9907220956.E-AT-
sixup.oucs.oucs.ox.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Between the Bays Dance Camp  14th to 21st August, Traverse 
City, Michigan.  Posted on behalf of Henry.

Further details are available at 
http://members.tripod.com/~HenryIam/index-2.html

Paul

 		PRE-DANCE CAMP

There is a dance on the Saturday night before the dance 
camp begins-Saturday night, August 14th and also two 
daytime workshops on the Saturday & Sunday before the dance 
camp begins.  These workshops & the dance are FREE to all 
who have signed up for the whole week. 

  On the Friday night before dance camp, August 13th, 
Traverse City has a "Street Festival" from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. 
Two downtown streets are closed off to traffic and there is 
music, dancing, food, entertainment of all kinds.  The 
College has single & double rooms available for the whole 
of the week before the dance camp begins.  It would be nice 
if you let me know if you want a room, but you could 
probably show up at the last minute and, like a hotel, 
rooms will be available.  If you tell them you are part of 
my dance camp, you will get a special rate - you do not pay 
them: you pay me.  

 There are many restaurants & fast food 
places within walking distance of the college-and you can 
swim in either bay-only a couple of hundreds of yards 
away. Tennis courts are right outside your dorm room.


		DANCE CAMP

The dance camp begins with the Sunday night dance, which 
starts at 8 p.m. and lasts until at least 11:30 p.m..  The 
dance-camp-workshops are scheduled for Monday through 
Friday August 16-20.  Dance camp ends with breakfast, 
Saturday morning August 21.  The cost of the week includes 
three meals a day.  Snacks & water will be available at 
most workshops & all dances. Off-campus people can eat at 
the cafeteria on a pay-per-meal basis.



		POST-DANCE CAMP

There are no workshops after the dance camp but I have 
scheduled a dance for Saturday night, August 21


	SEE YOU SOON!!!

	Henry Morgenstein





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 17:19:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 20:20:47 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990722.202049.6470.4.franch-AT-
juno.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3796c574.5028.0-AT-
jps.net>

Andy in Portland responded to Marian Heyer regarding Sharp siding:

>But in "getting it wrong" he created a figure that I think is much 
>more intimate than the shoulder to shoulder move. It is more like a
gypsy done >part way one direction and back again.

I find that in most cases "Sharp" siding makes for an awkward and
sometimes contorted movement, while the "Shaw" siding generally fits the
flow of the dance so much better--and provides its own opportunity for an
intimate making of eye contact.  It is also about as close to one's
partner as one gets in ECD.

On a related topic, I find it curious how strongly some people hold on to
Sharp interpretations.  I've been anxious to try Colin Hume's
interpretation of Newcastle, as presented in CDSS News not long ago, and
have been surprised at the resistence of individuals whom I thought would
be interested.  The responses were not "I've read it and it doesn't look
danceable" but more on the order of "Why bother?"

Mike Franch
Baltimore


___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:07:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:01:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Sharp Siding (was Unfounded speculation...)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <3796c574.5028.0-AT-
jps.net> with last message <19990722.202049.6470.4.franch-AT-
juno.com>

> Andy in Portland responded to Marian Heyer regarding Sharp siding:....

 [and, on another topic]

> I find that in most cases "Sharp" siding makes for an awkward and
> sometimes contorted movement,

Just to get the embarrassing part over with, it's Marian Phillips, rather than Heyer.  Heyer was the result of one of those moments of early computer panic when I felt I had to choose an alias quickly (for a bbs I was getting on); I was facing the bookshelf that has my collections of Georgette Heyer and Thorn Smith, and in my flustered state it seemed as if the universe boiled down to a choice between Heyer and Smith.  For some reason I could never think of another alias that was any better, so I'll probably spend my computer lifetime being named after a romance novelist.  (Although I must admit that learning ECD has given my my first real dissatisfaction with Heyer; where are all the dance descriptions?)

As for the awkwardness of Sharp siding, someone (in the archive) came up with the brilliant suggestion that instead of starting with your outside foot, you start with your *inside* foot.  The result is this really snappy pivot that just makes the figure, in my opinion.  Granted, I haven't actually tried it in an actual dance so far, but it really does feel right.

Not that I'm knocking the Alleged-Pat-Shaw siding, which also fabulous.

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:28:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: archives
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <01JDUCE4V9KI9JFUV8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> with last message <01JDUCE4V9KI9JFUV8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

the ListMeister writes:

 If you use the complete archive without
> putting in a subject line, prepare to wait a while.

This is actually a very entertaining way to do it.  It's like playing ECD Roulette; I keep dragging down the little vertical thingy on the side to see how much of the list has been pulled up, and find myself in the middle of 1997, or the end of 1998, looking at subject lines that are too fascinating to pass up.  It never would have occurred to me to do a search on "Welsh country dancing," for example; and I never would have thought that there *was* so much to say about the Virginia Reel.

And Steve Corrsin's post about how all ECD was derived from sword dancing was most enlightening. . .

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:47:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:51:32 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990722215132.00832cb0-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <3796c574.5028.0-AT-
jps.net>

Mike French wrote:

>On a related topic, I find it curious how strongly some people hold on to
>Sharp interpretations.  I've been anxious to try Colin Hume's
>interpretation of Newcastle, as presented in CDSS News not long ago, and
>have been surprised at the resistence of individuals whom I thought would
>be interested.  The responses were not "I've read it and it doesn't look
>danceable" but more on the order of "Why bother?"

Many dances are improved by reinterpreting them more accurately.  Nonesuch,
Step Stately and Dick's Maggot are ones for which I greatly prefer the
newer interpretations, not just because I believe they are more
historically accurate, (I do ) but mainly because I find them much more
danceable. I always hated that leapy thing in Newcastle, and also slipping
1 1/2 slips. I found the newer interpretation by Michael Barraclough made a
whole lot more sense, not just in terms of what the directions say, but in
terms of the flow of the dance.   

Same with Dick's Maggot, particularly the A part where the twos balance
back after casting up the set, and then move forward again after one
backward step. Its not organically flowing in the older, more familiar
version, and I was happy to throw throw it out for the Dick's Alternate
Maggot version which flows more smoothly. We used the reinterpretation at
our ball two years ago.  I love Step Stately as a performance dance for
three couples, but there are so many fiddly bits happening in rapid
succession that its very difficult to teach that version for rectreeational
dancing.   COlin's 5 couple set version is much more useful in recreational
dancing, because its easier to learn, and people get a chance to do each
figure a few times before moving on to the next figure.       

I think the "why bother" arises because people are USED to doing the Sharpe
versions, and find it hard to learn a second, similar dance to the same
music, even if its a better dance, and a closer interpretation of the
orginal description.  The first version of anything that people learn
always seems more "right" than subsequent ones, and that's a barrier these
reinterpretations will have a hard time overcoming. 

Victoria Bestock 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:29:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 03:28:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990723032034.22638C-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
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On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, paul/victoria bestock wrote:

> I think the "why bother" arises because people are USED to doing the Sharpe
> versions, and find it hard to learn a second, similar dance to the same
> music, even if its a better dance, and a closer interpretation of the
> orginal description.  The first version of anything that people learn
> always seems more "right" than subsequent ones, and that's a barrier these
> reinterpretations will have a hard time overcoming. 

Agreed. I think people have to remember that Sharpe's reconstructions are
anything but sacrosanct, since Playford's original instructions are often
vague or confusing. (In fact, Ingrid Brainard pointed out that the
first edition of The Dancing Master is little more than a prompt book,
since it doesn't explain the steps, or in some cases the figures, in the
kind of detail one finds in books for beginners.) In fact, Sharpe often
played fast & loose with the directions, and even switched the music
around for no apparent reason. (For instance, there are 2 versions of the
dance "Knole Park," one for 3 couples, one a duple minor. For some unknown
reason, Sharpe switched the music, so that the better-known tune is
actually the one for the 3-couple dance!) And the original music for "Up
with Ailey" is a rowdy slip jig in 9/8 that actually suits the dance much
better - once you get used to it - than the more stately duple-meter tune
of "The Hare's Maggot," to which it is generally done today.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:41:33 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
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Dawn Culbertson wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, paul/victoria bestock wrote:
>
> > I think the "why bother" arises because people are USED to doing the Sharpe
> > versions, and find it hard to learn a second, similar dance to the same
> > music, even if its a better dance, and a closer interpretation of the
> > orginal description.  The first version of anything that people learn
> > always seems more "right" than subsequent ones, and that's a barrier these
> > reinterpretations will have a hard time overcoming.
>
> Agreed. I think people have to remember that Sharpe's reconstructions are
> anything but sacrosanct, since Playford's original instructions are often
> vague or confusing. (In fact, Ingrid Brainard pointed out that the
> first edition of The Dancing Master is little more than a prompt book,
> since it doesn't explain the steps, or in some cases the figures, in the
> kind of detail one finds in books for beginners.) In fact, Sharpe often
> played fast & loose with the directions, and even switched the music
> around for no apparent reason. (For instance, there are 2 versions of the
> dance "Knole Park," one for 3 couples, one a duple minor. For some unknown
> reason, Sharpe switched the music, so that the better-known tune is
> actually the one for the 3-couple dance!)

Notice that Knole Park was reconstructed by Bert Simons, not by Cecil Sharp.

> And the original music for "Up
> with Ailey" is a rowdy slip jig in 9/8 that actually suits the dance much
> better - once you get used to it - than the more stately duple-meter tune
> of "The Hare's Maggot," to which it is generally done today.

I fully agree! And dancing Pat Shaw's reconstruction of The Hare's Maggot to its
own tune is a real pleasure, too.

Usually Sharp warns us that he did not use the tune that appeared with the dance
in The Dancing Master, but sometime he doesn't ...

Philippe Callens


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:41:03 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
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mike et al.;
  so, i can see a major siding controversy looming in baltimore! ;-)
  the computer ate my 1st response, so i'll try again. i personally
have no trouble with either kind of siding. sometimes sharp siding
gives just the note of elegance a dance needs, and sometimes it's just
downright clutzy. using whichever seems right makes sense. either way,
it's the folk process at work. sharp was probably wrong in his
interpretation, but as someone said recently (quoting genny shimer?),
there's no reason to simply dump 90 years of tradition. 
  as for newcastle, many people love it just the way it is. i know MOI
likes the old version. callers are welcome to try out new versions,
but they shouldn't automatically expect an enthusiastic response. as
victoria said, it's hard for a new interpretation of a dance to gain
acceptance because we're used to the old one. for one thing, the music
has been telling us what to do for a VERY long time, and that new
version just may not FEEL right. and until we all meet again in that
air-conditioned dance hall over yonder, we're not going to ever be
completely sure of how to interpret those ancient dance inscriptions.
so let's enjoy the old, celebrate the new, and keep the folk process
working.
  sharon "we don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!" mckinley, and
not a proponent for either kind of siding for any government agency

>>> Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com> 07/22 8:20 pm >>>
Andy in Portland responded to Marian Heyer regarding Sharp siding:

>But in "getting it wrong" he created a figure that I think is much 
>more intimate than the shoulder to shoulder move. It is more like a
gypsy done >part way one direction and back again.

I find that in most cases "Sharp" siding makes for an awkward and
sometimes contorted movement, while the "Shaw" siding generally fits
the
flow of the dance so much better--and provides its own opportunity for
an
intimate making of eye contact.  It is also about as close to one's
partner as one gets in ECD.

On a related topic, I find it curious how strongly some people hold on
to
Sharp interpretations.  I've been anxious to try Colin Hume's
interpretation of Newcastle, as presented in CDSS News not long ago,
and
have been surprised at the resistence of individuals whom I thought
would
be interested.  The responses were not "I've read it and it doesn't
look
danceable" but more on the order of "Why bother?"

Mike Franch
Baltimore


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:58:41 -0400
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <IDo-AT-
exist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Co-Author Speaks on Genesis of the Keller/Sweet Book
To: ECD Listserv - Posts <ECD-AT-
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Kitty Keller passes on these thoughts on the subject of motivation for
Early American publication.  Kitty is not a subscriber to this list and is
quite busy and unable to field responses.  I hope you enjoy reading Kitty's
reflections as much as I did . . . a wonderful blend of personal thoughts
and scholarship.

/Roger
---------


Dear friends,
        To put the Keller/Sweet book in perspective, perhaps it would be of
interest for people to know that when the Bicentennial loomed, most of the
books available to the general public touted the "Virginia Reel" (usually
to the tune of "Turkey in the Straw") and "Country Gardens" as American's
favorite dances for the whole 18th century. We know now that these are the
least likely to have been danced!
        In the 1970s, CDS members who were called upon to present costumed
demonstrations usually turned to the Apted Collection, which was from the
right period even though many of the dances were significantly changed when
they were interpreted in Sharp style in the 1930s. We did not know that
dances and tunes survived in handwritten books made by soldiers who served
in the Continental Army and by young ladies who were attending itinerant
dancing masters' classes in rural Massachusetts.
        Working with a local fife and drum corps in Coventry, Connecticut,
Ralph Sweet and I began to look seriously for authentic American material
in 1973.  We were working entirely independently from CDSS; in fact, I had
never heard of country dancing until I met him. One Sunday afternoon in the
early spring, we were at the Coventry High School: my kids were practicing
the fife; Ralph and his son were teaching; in between sessions, Ralph and I
were comparing notes about a 1777 manuscript fife tune collection that I
had just found.  In walked a petite lady, immaculately turned out in a
Persian lamb coat and hat and wearing white gloves. She introduced herself
as Joy Van Cleef, a member of the Country Dance Society, who said she had
been asked by the State of Connecticut to produce a dance sequence for a
state Bicentennial film, and a book on dance in Connecticut as a
bicentennial project.  She had several photocopies of dance manuscripts and
printed books from the 1780s and 90s that Frances Jackson had found in the
1940s, but these only had dance figures. She needed the tunes and thought
we might know some of them. We looked over her list and knew immediately
that we had a match!  We had the tunes she needed, and more than that, we
had accurately dressed people who wanted to learn dancing as part of the
re-enactment of the daily life of the Continental officers and soldiers.
        Wendy Hilton was a close friend of Joy's and came to visit often.
She was hard at work on her path-breaking interpretation of 18th-century
movement and step technique, and she and Joy shared the new information
with us. The more we learned about the people who lived in America during
the 1770s and 1780s and the clothes and shoes they wore, the more we
realized that their movement style was different from ours.  We learned
that their expectations from an evening of dancing were different. And,
moreover, we learned that we needed to be clear on WHO we were talking
about. Surely the foot soldiers moved differently from the officers who
were gentlemen and had been to dancing school. (In some winter quarters,
notably in 1778 in Valley Forge, the officers hired a dancing master to
instruct them in off hours.)  Scottish immigrants in the Virginia piedmont
must have danced differently from the Virginia planters in Williamsburg.
The farmers in Coventry, Connecticut probably moved differently from the
Yale students in New Haven. They still do! But they seemed to share a basic
repertory of dance types and the country dance was the most widely
mentioned dance.
        Ralph was dead set against steps for RECREATIONAL country dancers.
He kept saying, "that'll kill it for today's dancers."  And he was right.
But there was a large group of people interested in accurate dance movement
that matched the historical clothing they wore and the period pictures they
saw.  We did not know enough about the steps at the time, and decided to
include only those steps that were called for in the dances, a balance and
a rigadoon. The first suggested rigadoon in the book was Jim Morrison's
suggested compromise with the authentic three-hop baroque rigadoon that he
thought would be too much for the people we expected to use the book. It
was a good idea because it gives people the general feeling of the step,
but it isn't an accurate rigadoon. The second one is accurate.
        The collection that Ralph and I created gave the public authentic
dance figures and tunes that we knew had been widely popular in New England
in the 1770s and 1780s. Although the State of Connecticut was prepared to
publish our book, Joy took our book to CDS and they offered to publish it
instead. It seemed more appropriate and ensured the work a more permanent
home. At our own expense, we made a recording (CDIC-1) in contradance style
so that teachers could use the dances in their classrooms. This was one
step in the right direction--­and an alternative to inappropriate "Virginia
Reel!"
        In 1974 I met Pat Shaw and Chip Hendrickson. Encouraged by Pat,
Chip and I continued to work with Joy on authentic period movement.  We
attended Wendy's seminars and tried out simple steps with Chip's
bicentennial demonstration team in Newtown. Somehow, things seemed to
click. By the 1980s, we had sufficient evidence that cultivated social
dancers in the 18th century learned basic baroque steps and used them. The
steps they used depended on the occasion, the space, the dances, the heat
of the day, and the people who were dancing and watching. Most 18th-century
balls were not romps.  Formal minuets were followed by informal country
dances, but the dancers still cared about how they looked on the floor. If
they bothered to wear the latest fashions on their bodies, they used the
latest steps when they moved. I was asked to present my findings as a
keynote address at The Historical Dance Foundation's 1989 International
Early Dance Institute at Goucher College. My talk was enthusiastically
received and published by the Foundation as "If the Company Can Do it!
Technique in Eighteenth-Century American Social Dance." (1990)
        Since that time there has been more and more demand for our
research findings and we have now published several books with more
accurate steps and plenty of documentation.  In the meantime, Bob and I
continue to enjoy traditional Sharp-style English Country Dancing. In fact,
we prefer to dance this way. The other kind of dancing is chiefly for those
who dress up in old clothing and try to portray our ancestors. If they do,
they must make the whole commitment and learn to move correctly for the
clothing they are wearing or their interpretation will lack accuracy.  For
more information, I recommend Alicia M. Annas's essay, "The Elegant Art of
Movement," in, "An Elegant Art: Fashion & Fantasy in the Eighteenth
Century" (Los Angeles County Museum of Art: 1983). For American dance
citations, look at "The Performing Arts in Colonial American Newspapers,
1690-1783" (1997) <www.universitymusicedition.com>

        Kitty Keller


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:37:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
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Having learned English Country Dancing primarily in Ann Arbor from
Erna-Lynne Bogue and Don Theyken, who agreed when they started teaching it
here in the '80's that they would teach shoulder-to-shoulder siding in
essentially all of the dances reconstructed from historical sources, it is
the form that seems most natural to me, and I am glad that they introduced
it to me in this way, after soon discovering the controversy as I
encountered Sharp's early interpretation at dance camps.  

While Sharp's version provides opportunities for more direct eye contact,
it is not distinguished from many other figures in that respect: so do two
hand turns, gypsies, right- & left-hand turns, circles, hands-across
stars, and forward & back movements, to name a few.  It does not provide
the opportunity for a brief playful shoulder-to shoulder contact...

It also loses the absolutely wonderful moments of geometrical symmetry
created by the appearance of lines of dancers which a moment before and a
moment afterwards didn't exist, and which are spectacular when viewed from
a vantage point above the dance floor, or even from the same level as the
dancers when the apparent chaos suddenly resolves into a crystalline
lattice, only to dissolve again the next instant.

With these considerations along with those of historical appropriateness,
I feel that it makes more sense of the dances to do them with
shoulder-to-shoulder siding except in the case of recent dances explicitly
written with Sharp siding in mind.  As a teacher, it makes more sense to
try to bring out all that I see in the dances, and so I have been happy to
continue the local tradition started by Erna-Lynne and Don even though I
know that my pupils will encounter this peculiar dichotomy when they dance
to others here and in other parts of the country.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor



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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:47:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
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On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Philippe Callens wrote:
 
> Dawn Culbertson wrote:

[snip]

> > And the original music for "Up
> > with Ailey" is a rowdy slip jig in 9/8 that actually suits the dance much
> > better - once you get used to it - than the more stately duple-meter tune
> > of "The Hare's Maggot," to which it is generally done today.

As I recall, The Hare's Maggot is in 3/2...

> I fully agree! And dancing Pat Shaw's reconstruction of The Hare's Maggot to its
> own tune is a real pleasure, too.

Having recently done Up with Ailey to its original tune led by Helene
Cornelius at Buffalo Gap, am in complete agreement with Dawn and Philippe.
It is a fast-paced, lively dance with great flow.

Philippe, is Shaw's reconstruction of The Hare's Maggot published in a
currently-available edition?  I'd like to see it.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 07:34:19 +0100
From: mdevlin-AT-
teleport.com (Mary Devlin)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: ECD at Mendocino
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I was there!  It was superb!!  Great staff, well-organized and well-run.

Highlights of the camp for me included Philippe Callens' and Bruce
Hamilton's classes. Philippe taught wonderful dances along with lots of
style and styling tips.  Bruce did "Back Through the Ceiling", continuing
our progress toward the stratosphere.  Both are excellent teachers and it
was really fun seeing us all learn and improve through the week.

Another highlight was Phyllis Richmond's Alexander Technique class -- she
did one for musicians and one for dancers.  Philippe's, Bruce's and
Phyllis' classes reinforced each other beautifully and made an integrated
week.

I didn't get to Andra Horton's clog or molly classes, nor Carl Dreher's
rapper class, but the demos those classes did were super.

The music was terrific -- The Guppies (Kathrine Gardner, Jim Oakden, Craig
Johnson), Shira Kammen, Chuck Ward, Liz Dreisbach, Kimberley McKittrick --
what great musicians!

And then there was the food.  Just your basic 5 star stuff.  More superlatives.

Gosh... there must have been some downside you may be thinking.  Just the
usual lack of sleep due to too much fun.  And the usual transition back to
non-dance camp life.

Mary Devlin



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:32:55 PST
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:32:23 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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The biggest problem I have with side-by-side is that I always want to carry
it through in the set and ts.  It's often that I realize how silly it is
that the default ts is to the R, when it should be symmetrical also, like
the arm and side figures.  But then you get caught up in the necessity of
starting the side-by-side on the correct foot in order to set and ts in the
correct direction.

And one of the beauties of Sharp's construct is the nearly absolute lack of
involvement with where and how you put your feet, the thing which brings us
right back to Kitty, Jim and all the rest - how to move through the figures.

Where does one draw the line between accessible to anyone who can walk,
basically, (which was what Sharp was after), and a bit of fussyness (which
is what drives many of us away from Scottish)?

Personally, I'd drop Sharp siding in a second, except in the few dances
where there's only one.  Because one of the biggest things about siding for
me is that there are symmetrical pairs of movement.  A R shoulder siding
without the L seems quite an orphan to me.  Sharp's siding stands by
itself, whether you do one or two.

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:44:14 PST
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:43:51 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
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I'm sort of hoping we'll realize the Cecil Sharp's last name has no "e",
that Aily is spelled "Aily" and that there are no 1.5 sidings or funny hops
on Newcastle.  They're in Nonesuch.

And yes, indeed, the melody we use for Up With Aily is in 3/2 time and is
generally played so fast that it's a waste of the dance, to me.  The
original tune reduces the dance to just another EC dance, in my opinion,
making us all scurry about attempting to cover too much ground, squishing
the set together, losing all the courtesy of the figures and leaving the
less experienced dancers to miss many of the fine touches, most notably the
effect of the turns up and down the set when you move - the necessity of
looking ahead to find out how your turning blends into what you're going to
be doing next, or who you're dancing with as you move up or down.

There are many fine things about Aily and every one of them is obliterated
completely by that silly tune that goes round and round in little circles
and has no grace at all!

IMNVHO!

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:59:06 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: ECD at Mendocino
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Mary Devlin wrote:
>Gosh... there must have been some downside you may be thinking.  Just the
>usual lack of sleep due to too much fun.  And the usual transition back to

>non-dance camp life.
>
   I remember years ago leaving Berea to drive home after Christmas School and
the first impact of "reality" when you stop for gas or food. Makes one wonder
which is more real.

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:01:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 10:58:48 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: ECD at Mendocino
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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>Gosh... there must have been some downside you may be thinking.  Just the
>usual lack of sleep due to too much fun.  And the usual transition back to

>non-dance camp life.
>
   I remember years ago leaving Berea to drive home after Christmas School and
the first impact of "reality" when you stop for gas or food. Makes one wonder
which is more real.

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:10:51 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Maybe I wasn't clear.  The tune Hare's Maggot is not the original melody to
which the figures of Aily were published, as I understand it.  That one,
the one to which the figures were published, is the "original" tune and the
one that goes round and round in silly little circles - to me.

Although just about everywhere except sometimes in Boston, the Hare's
Maggot, and Up With Aily, are performed in what I call New York tempo, fast
enough to permit shushing of the feet,  at least the melody permits some
space for all the fine details of  Aily.

Without the fine details, Aily becomes just another dance.  With them, it
becomes one of the most difficult and most rewarding dances in our
repertoire.

One of the most difficult tasks a ECD leader faces is finding the words
that convince the people forming the lines to "dance" home from the lines.
Getting them to dance into the lines is not so hard as getting to them
dance back home.  Getting the 2s to dance into the circle, and not form it
as an afterthought ("oh, yes.  Oh, there's a circle.") is pretty hard too.

After that is stopping them from lunging into the belly of the poor person
that the line is approaching!

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:17:53 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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playford.slac.stanford.edu
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EricArnold wrote about Sharp's interpretation of siding:

>It also loses the absolutely wonderful moments of geometrical symmetry
>created by the appearance of lines of dancers which a moment before and a
>moment afterwards didn't exist, and which are spectacular when viewed from

>a vantage point above the dance floor, or even from the same level as the
>dancers when the apparent chaos suddenly resolves into a crystalline
>lattice, only to dissolve again the next instant.
>
   I couldn't disagree with you more. When everyone moves together there is
as much geometrical symmetry in Sharp's "incorrect" siding as in "correct" siding.
It all boils down to what you are used to. I learned ECD before Shaw reinterpreted
siding and find it less gratifying than the interpretation that I learned first.
One of the few "old" dances where I've found Shaw's siding works for me is in
Nonesuch. Moving into lines and then turning single back to place, as I first
experienced when taught by Christine Helwig in New Haven, works so much better
here than Sharp's interpretation.

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:37:12 -0400
From: Jailbait <jailbait-AT-
apocalypse.org>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <v03007802b3be03da5ce5-AT-
[140.186.62.142]>

Quoth Emily L. Ferguson (elf-AT-
cape.com):
> ...and that there are no 1.5 sidings or funny hops
> on Newcastle.  They're in Nonesuch.

Um, the first time I did the Sharp reconstruction of Newcastle, I was disgusted
by the figure which goes, correctly, Side (up and back). Side (up and back).
Side 1/2 (up and stop). progress. and which was turned into
Side (1/2gyp and return). Side (1/2gyp and return). Slow Set and Honor.
Progress. 

Ick.

These days, I'm much less vocal about it, but I still hate it.

JB
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:50:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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On Fri, 23 Jul 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

> EricArnold wrote about Sharp's interpretation of siding:
> 
> >It also loses the absolutely wonderful moments of geometrical symmetry
> >created by the appearance of lines of dancers which a moment before and a
> >moment afterwards didn't exist, and which are spectacular when viewed from
> 
> >a vantage point above the dance floor, or even from the same level as the
> >dancers when the apparent chaos suddenly resolves into a crystalline
> >lattice, only to dissolve again the next instant.
> >
>    I couldn't disagree with you more. When everyone moves together
> there is as much geometrical symmetry in Sharp's "incorrect" siding as
> in "correct" siding.

Technically you are correct, in that if the dance is perfectly executed by
everyone, then they will all pass the center point simultaneously and this
line will exist.  But the figure gives no special recognition to this
moment, and the dancers, staring as they are into their partner's or
opposite's eyes, are likely to be completely unaware of this moment, even
if it does chance to exist.  

On the other hand, if the steps of shoulder siding are executed by coming
forward a double, with closure on the fourth step, then everyone is in
this position for a full beat of the music, and if they are glancing
sideways as they approach and back out, then they are in good position to
see this line take shape and dissolve again. 

It is hard not to believe that this is an intentional component of the
dance.  Because of this and the issues of symmetry involved, I feel that
it goes well beyond the matter of how one first learned it.

Eric Arnold


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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:51:52 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation... -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>  Sharon "we don't need no stinkin' air conditioning!" McKinley wrote:
> i personally
>have no trouble with either kind of siding. sometimes sharp siding
>gives just the note of elegance a dance needs, and sometimes it's just
>downright clutzy. using whichever seems right makes sense. either way,
>it's the folk process at work. sharp was probably wrong in his
>interpretation, but as someone said recently (quoting genny shimer?),
>there's no reason to simply dump 90 years of tradition. 

   Actually it was Christine Helwig that I was quoting.
   There certainly are times when Sharp's siding is awkward. None more so than
in Nonesuch. I still don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. Shaw's
new interpretation in the '70's simply gave us an alternative. 

Andy in Portland
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Anent Emily's comments:

"Up With Aily" to "Up With Aily" is a different dance from "Up With Aily"
to "The Hare's Maggot."  Most of the styling to the familiar version must
disappear if the dance is going work at all to its original tune -- and 
I agree that the original tune isn't that great.

I think Sharp's substituting the tune he preferred to get an aesthetic effect
he (and I) like so much is just fine.  He didn't try to conceal that he'd
changed tunes, and the original tune is still there for people with a
historical interest.  He didn't claim it was historically correct. What he
created is historically bogus but  aesthetically and emotionally valid, and
more power to him.

We do "Up With Aily" at a pretty comfortable speed in the Bay Area, and 
point out the little phrases for gathering the line, forward, back, 
back to place, change or turn single, etc, so we get a pretty good 
dance-it-all-the-way-through feeling.  Do you folks do the 2s turning
up or down and up into the circle after the lead down?  Down and up usually
means motion into the circle, and seems to echo the "rolly" feeling of the
end of the previous phrase.

Can you tell this is one of my favorite dances?

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 12:53:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Co-Author Speaks on Genesis of the Keller/Sweet Book
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Roger --

Thanks _very_ much for passing along Kitty's clear and interesting thoughts
on how the K&S/Morrison stuff happened.  This kind of authoritative response
is exactly what I was hoping for, and I appreciate it very much.

May I impose on you to pass two things along to Kitty, at your and her
convenience?

(1) My thanks.  I really appreciate her taking the time to put all this down
    so clearly and interestingly.

(2) A request for permission to place her article on the ECD website -- it's
    in the archives already, by virtue of your posting it, but I'd like 
    permission to pull it out separately, like Gene Murrow's
    piece on how contra and English interacted at Pinewoods in the 60s and  
    early 70s.  I'd like to make this more available to anyone with the 
    same curiousity I had.

Again, thanks to you and Kitty both.

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:01:19 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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g9tfz.MITRE.org>
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Marian Phillips wrote:

>As for the awkwardness of Sharp siding, someone (in the archive) came up
with the brilliant suggestion that instead of starting with your outside
foot, you start with your *inside* foot.  The result is this really snappy
pivot that just makes the figure, in my opinion.  Granted, I haven't
actually tried it in an actual dance so far, but it really does feel right.

I always start on the outside foot and I have always been able to achieve
the snappy pivot.  I agree, though, that it is this pivot that makes the
figure exciting.

Pat Ruggiero

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:05:21 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>Victoria Bestock wrote:
>Same with Dick's Maggot, particularly the A part where the twos balance
>back after casting up the set, and then move forward again after one
>backward step. Its not organically flowing in the older, more familiar
>version, and I was happy to throw throw it out for the Dick's Alternate
>Maggot version which flows more smoothly. We used the reinterpretation at
>our ball two years ago. 

And I remember dancing Dick's Maggot in a rebellious set led by another Seattle
teacher who, like others of us, prefers the "old" interpretation.

> I love Step Stately as a performance dance for
>three couples, but there are so many fiddly bits happening in rapid
>succession that its very difficult to teach that version for rectreeational

>dancing.   COlin's 5 couple set version is much more useful in recreational

>dancing, because its easier to learn, and people get a chance to do each
>figure a few times before moving on to the next figure.       

   I did not like Colin's version partly because there was not adequate space
for that large a set at the Ball. I remember the first time that I saw Step
Stately. It was at a Hudson Guild Farm weekend on the occasion of May Gadd's
80th Birthday. A few of the long time dancers did it with Gay. I remember watching
and hoping that someday I could learn that beautiful dance. Until I started
performing it with Reel Nutmeg, that group at Gay's party was the only time
I'd ever seen it done without a long laborious teaching session. It is certainly
not an easy dance to learn (or teach) but there is a real satisfaction when
you finally "get it". 

>I think the "why bother" arises because people are USED to doing the Sharpe

>versions, and find it hard to learn a second, similar dance to the same
>music, even if its a better dance, and a closer interpretation of the
>orginal description.  The first version of anything that people learn
>always seems more "right" than subsequent ones, and that's a barrier these

>reinterpretations will have a hard time overcoming. 
>
I guess a lot of my resistance to new interpretations is that, unlike some in
the community, I have been dancing the "old" version so long that it's automatic.
The music truly tells me what to do. (I was once given a tape of ECD tunes that
didn't have the names on it. Within a few hours I had named every dance on the
tape.) I find it very hard to change when I've been been dancing a certain way
for 30+ years. It doesn't matter to some people, but to me it does. And the
question of it being a "better" dance is a matter of individual interpretation.
Besides, if Playford's original publications are so vague, ALL interpretations
of them are subject to question, not just Sharp's.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:18:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:18:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Notation for "Bonny Cuckoo"?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JDWPNLNF4I9JJCY7-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Folks --

If one of you has notation for Gail Ticknor's "Bonny Cuckoo" already on line,
could you send a copy to me privately at winston-AT-
slac.stanford.edu?  I'd 
much rather not have copyrighted dances posted on the list without the express
permission of the authors.

I own a copy of Gail's book - Gail's Maggots - but I can't seem to lay hands
on it now, and I'd like to use the dance next weekend in Sebastopol.

[This is the lovely 4-couple longways to the Sheebeg and Sheemor tune.]

Thanks!

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:50:25 PST
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:50:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation... -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990723234816.22992A-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
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> 
> >>> Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com> 07/22 8:20 pm >>>
> Andy in Portland responded to Marian Heyer regarding Sharp siding:
> 
> I find that in most cases "Sharp" siding makes for an awkward and
> sometimes contorted movement, while the "Shaw" siding generally fits
> the
> flow of the dance so much better--and provides its own opportunity for
> an
> intimate making of eye contact.  It is also about as close to one's
> partner as one gets in ECD.

From what I know about 18th century dance style, and the few contredanse
(the precursor to country dance) books, which used a type of graphic
notation that indicated steps and floor patterns, the so-called "Shaw"
siding is actually more correct historically. (And, considering the big
skirts the women wore at the time, probably less risky to do!)

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 00:20:28 -0400
From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." <IDo-AT-
exist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Co-Author Speaks on Genesis of the Keller/Sweet Book
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990724001932.0095a3d0-AT-
209.183.254.10>
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Yes, I will pass on your request to Kitty.

Thanks for your kind comments, too.  Of course, in this case, I am just the
conduit.

Best regards,

/Roger
At 12:53 PM 7/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Roger --
>
>Thanks _very_ much for passing along Kitty's clear and interesting thoughts
>on how the K&S/Morrison stuff happened.  This kind of authoritative response
>is exactly what I was hoping for, and I appreciate it very much.
>
>May I impose on you to pass two things along to Kitty, at your and her
>convenience?
>
>(1) My thanks.  I really appreciate her taking the time to put all this down
>    so clearly and interestingly.
>
>(2) A request for permission to place her article on the ECD website -- it's
>    in the archives already, by virtue of your posting it, but I'd like 
>    permission to pull it out separately, like Gene Murrow's
>    piece on how contra and English interacted at Pinewoods in the 60s and  
>    early 70s.  I'd like to make this more available to anyone with the 
>    same curiousity I had.
>
>Again, thanks to you and Kitty both.
>
>-- Alan
>
>
>===========================================================================
====
> Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
> Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
> Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
>===========================================================================
====
>

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:35:39 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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>Getting them to dance into the lines is not so hard as getting to them
>dance back home.  Getting the 2s to dance into the circle, and not form it

>as an afterthought ("oh, yes.  Oh, there's a circle.") is pretty hard too.

>
   I think one of the things that most dancers are never really taught is that
in this kind of dancing (ECD as well as Contra) the dancers need to think ahead
to the next figure. Even people who have been dancing for a while tend to finish
a figure and stop in their home place before beginning the next figure. They
should be taught to always be moving toward the next figure, possibly dancing
through that home space on the way. They also need to be taught that, although
they are thinking ahead, they should not begin a figure before the musical phrase.
Nordlys has one Danish dance that has a turn in it that I always have trouble
getting my regular partner around as far as we need to go. The reason is that
she stops in front of me instead of moving past me and being swept into the
turn. The turn with the opposite is once-and-a-half, but with the partner needs
to be once-and-three-quarters. When she stops, the momentum to get the full
distance around is broken.

Andy Peterson
================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 03:01:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990724025833.29401A-100000-AT-
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On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Eric Arnold wrote:

> As I recall, The Hare's Maggot is in 3/2...

You're right. I stand corrected.
> 
> Having recently done Up with Ailey to its original tune led by Helene
> Cornelius at Buffalo Gap, am in complete agreement with Dawn and Philippe.
> It is a fast-paced, lively dance with great flow.

I first did Up with Ailey to the original tune when Jenny Beer called it
here in Baltimore, and it was a revelation. Although I enjoyed the dance
when it was called previously, the movements and the music somehow didn't
seem to jive together quite right. With the original music, everything
seemed to fall right into place. We've never done The Hare's Maggot here,
as far as I can remember - I'd be interested in seeing the reconstruction
too.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:18:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:18:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: meak
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JDY1XNJVJY9UMLRE-AT-
amherst.edu>
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What means this "meak?"  :)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 11:21:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:21:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: oops
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <01JDY21M9XK29UMLRE-AT-
amherst.edu>
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Just back from Pinewoods, and answering 67 messages.  Meant to send the
last to someone else -- sorry!

Robin "fuzzy of brain" Hayden

================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:30:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
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In a message dated 7/23/99 12:48:10 AM, you wrote:

<<Same with Dick's Maggot, particularly the A part where the twos balance
back after casting up the set, and then move forward again after one
backward step. Its not organically flowing in the older, more familiar
version, and I was happy to throw throw it out for the Dick's Alternate
Maggot version which flows more smoothly. >>

I'm not familiar with the Dick's Alternate Maggot but I LOVE the beginning of 
the "standard" Dick's Maggot, as well as the rest of the dance, every 
wonderful moment of it. Woudn't change a thing, even if nobody ever danced it 
that way 300 years ago. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
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Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 14:40:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation... (more on siding)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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There are a few dances where, to me, Sharp siding seems just right: Bellamira 
and Newcastle come to mind. 

There are a few dance in which changing Sharp siding to side-by-side siding 
makes such obvious sense and so improves the dance that it's worth doing even 
though the dance is one which the entire ECD world has internalized with 
Sharp siding. Childgrove comes to mind. 

For most others, I tend to prefer side-by-side, but would call Sharp siding 
if the dance is a "classic" such as Newcastle and changing the type of siding 
would be a hindrance to some people's enjoyment of the moment. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:21:20 PST
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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 10:26:00 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: slipping and sliding
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 11:43 AM 7/23/99 -0400, Emily Ferguson  wrote:
>I'm sort of hoping we'll realize (snip) that there are no 1.5 sidings or
funny hops on Newcastle.  They're in Nonesuch.

Nonesuch is what I meant.  I guess its not what I said.   But you misquote
me on "siding"-- I really did mean "sliding" which is the generic folk
dance term for "slipping."  I used that word because I wanted to
differentiate between slip as in 'move sidewards in a gallop step, also
known as slide', and  slip-- 'move between two people.'  In the revised
Nonesuch the active couple meets without the funny jump, and slips, meaning
"moves between" the next couple for four beats without slipping or
sliding-- just walking.  

Victoria

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:28:11 PST
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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:27:51 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: slipping and sliding
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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At 10:26 AM -0700 7/25/99, paul/victoria bestock wrote:
>At 11:43 AM 7/23/99 -0400, Emily Ferguson  wrote:
>>I'm sort of hoping we'll realize (snip) that there are no 1.5 sidings or
>funny hops in Newcastle.  They're in Nonesuch.
>
>Nonesuch is what I meant.  I guess its not what I said.   But you misquote
>me on "siding"-- I really did mean "sliding" which is the generic folk
>dance term for "slipping."  I used that word because I wanted to
>differentiate between slip as in 'move sidewards in a gallop step, also
>known as slide', and  slip-- 'move between two people.'  In the revised
>Nonesuch the active couple meets without the funny jump, and slips, meaning
>"moves between" the next couple for four beats without slipping or
>sliding-- just walking.
>
>Victoria

Ah, ha.  I see where you're talking about.   As I understand Mike's
interpretation, he means for the active couple to dance into the center (4
steps) and face down, taking inside hands, then dance down between the set
to face out ready to pousette with the next couple (another 4 steps).

And as I understand it, there's no slipping or sliding in his method.

And it's also true that the entire movement becomes quite difficult if you
do it his way.  Dancing in to meet in 4 steps when you're only 2 steps
apart requires that famous Aily problem - thinking ahead, maybe even
curving around a bit.  Dancing down the middle 4 steps when you've only got
2 steps to go to cover the distance - more of a similar problem.

Mike?

Care to join the discussion?


                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:59:02 PST
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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 21:51:29 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sunday in New York
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205502b3c16ecaecc7-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>
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Had a delightful time watching the American Travelling Morrice Tour 
today in New Lebanon, NY - they're touring in the Berkshires all this 
week.

I'm also having a good time looking over the lists of dances that 
have been submitted already to the web site.  Some interesting trends 
already!

Just to clarify, since I've had a few emails. I don't expect to 
tabulate the results by the order you submit the dances in. Mainly it 
will be a selection of a repetoire of 50 dances as chosen by the 
people responding - as discussed in earlier posts.  To make this more 
clear I've removed the numbers from the web page.  You still need to 
submit 50 dances though - since that is the quest!

Mary Beth
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:13:57 PST
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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:14:18 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Rowdy contra dancing
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Andy Peterson wrote:

>...some of them find they like the English better.  Some of the reason for
that is that Contradancing tends to be rough and people are tired of getting
injured by other dancers.

Andy, I'd like to rephrase that.  I would say that modern contradancERS tend
to be rough.  ContradancING is not inherently a rough activity.

Pinewoods English week provides a good example.  As we all know, Tuesday is
staff's night off.  Campers organize the evening dance, which always
includes contras -- and don't we have a great time dancing enthusiastically,
yet with control and phrasing.  Folks are heard to say how much they enjoy
doing contras with English dancers!

There is a group of older people (I think about 150 of them ) from the Lloyd
Shaw Foundation who meet every year over the Thanksgiving holiday at the old
York Hotel in York, Pa., for a long weekend of contradancing.  Howard and I
attended this event in 1997.  The dancers were gracious.  The dancing drew
its vitality from exact phrasing and a simple directness of execution,
rather than from boisterousness and individual showmanship.

I was one of those people who gave up contradancing in the late 1980s after
discovering English, owing to the rowdiness of the dancers and the lack of
variety in the contradance repertoire.  I was hesitant about attending the
York weekend (an entire weekend of CONTRADANCING?  are you out of your
mind?),  but we had such a delightful time that we are going again this
November.  (By the way, this is essentially an invitation-only event, so
don't look for it to be advertised anywhere.)

Pat Ruggiero


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:14:03 PST
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Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 22:14:19 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Motivation for Early American footwork
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Various musings in response to Alan Winston's queries ---

Alan, the answer to your specific question has been generously and
thoroughly answered by Kitty Keller.  What I can add is that, having taken
workshops from both Jim Morrison and Chip Hendrickson in dancing Early
American with footwork, I feel these dances come to life when danced with a
bit of stepping.  The longways dances are very simple and very similar; the
footwork adds crispness and distinction.  Conversely, just because the
figures are so simple, it is quite easy to get the footwork right!

This past Tuesday, I led our weekly SCD class while the regular teacher was
out of town.  I used the occasion to teach Highland Lilt (Neal, 1728) and
the Early American dance, Money in Both Pockets (Morrision, 1976).  I've
danced both in ECD contexts and always felt that the vigor of the tunes
cried out for greater strength in the dancing.  I found it  with the
Scottish footwork.

I find it poignant that a movement begun about 20 years ago, and still
flourishing only 10 years ago, seems now to be a subject of historical
inquiry.  I remember looking forward to the Williamsburg and Richmond balls
partly because their programs included cotillions with footwork.
Williamsburg doesn't seem to include cotillions any more (any reasons,
Lou?);  we haven't been able to attend the Richmond ball in the last few
years so I don't know what they are doing now.  At the time I took those
workshops (late 80s, early 90s) there seemed to be sufficient interest that
I imagined stepping and the Early American dances  would always be a part of
the way we danced ECD.  The Amherst Assembly (1996) demonstrated that the
interest is still there but, alas, it seems not strong enough to influence
modern ECD.

On the other hand, it is heartening to see that English Week at Pinewoods
will include classes in the minuet and the Renaissance dances.  I think it
adds to the pleasure of dancing to have an historical context into which to
place ECD.

Regarding accessibility -- one has only to look at the vitality of the SCD
groups to realize that footwork can be learned and enjoyed.   One could
argue that even more people would do SCD if it didn't require footwork, but
then it wouldn't be modern SCD;  it would be -- contradancing!

Pat Ruggiero

================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 00:49:49 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: oops
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>Just back from Pinewoods, and answering 67 messages.  Meant to send the
>last to someone else -- sorry!
>
>Robin "fuzzy of brain" Hayden
>
Robin,

We understand. Long days (and nights) at Pinewoods have been known to cause
the "fuzzy of brain" affliction. No one ever gets it AT camp, only when "reality"
hits us after leaving camp.

Andy in Portland
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:33:03 PST
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:33:20 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: FW: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding
To: English Dance <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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The following is an excerpt from private correspondence between me and Andy
Peterson.

Pat Ruggiero

-----Original Message-----
From: Patricia Ruggiero [mailto:ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 1999 10:37 AM
To: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: RE: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding

Hello, Andy,

<snip>

Your comment about siding is most instructive.  I tried it and found that it
matches the feel of the historical figure of sides, whereas pivot siding
does not.  You were most fortunate to have been taught by Gay and Genny.  I
came to dance later (mid 80s), and in a different city (D.C.), learning
different things from different callers.  From whom they learned I have no
idea.

I find it interesting to reflect on these two figures: sides and Sharp
siding.  In sides, one executes the figure to stand side-by-side with the
partner, first right and then left, with the line parallel to the set lines.
In siding, one executes the figure by *leading* with the side of the body,
first with the right and then back with the left, to stand face-to-face with
the partner, (mostly?) perpendicular to the set lines.  Seen in this light,
Sharp siding without that punctuating pivot is not an unpleasant variant on
the historical sides, although I would agree with Colin Hume's point that
sides demonstrates the two-part quality of the figure whereas Sharp siding
does not.

It was very kind of you to [bring this to my attention.]  <snip to end>

Cordially,

Pat



-----Original Message-----
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net [mailto:adpete-AT-
jps.net]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 2:20 AM
To: Patricia Ruggiero
Subject: Re: Sharp pivot in Sharp siding

You wrote:

>I always start on the outside foot and I have always been able to achieve
>the snappy pivot.  I agree, though, that it is this pivot that makes the
>figure exciting.
>
   The way I learned siding, there is no "pivot". The figure is done with
shoulders
squared to your partner as in a gypsy except halfway and back instead of all
the way around. Some people have interpreted it as passing your partner,
then
turning (pivoting) to face them. This was certainly not the way Gay and
Genny
taught it when I first went to Pinewoods thirty years ago.

Andy in Portland

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 19:03:30 PST
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:03:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: meeting
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I'll be there.
================================================================================
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Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:05:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: drat!
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I did it again.  Blast.

Robin
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:06:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 09:04:14 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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References: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9907230937400.17843-100000-AT-
seawolf.rs.itd.umich.edu>

Eric Arnold wrote:

> Philippe, is Shaw's reconstruction of The Hare's Maggot published in a
> currently-available edition?  I'd like to see it.

It actually is. It can be found in Charles's Choice, a collection (with tape) of
dances from various sources compiled by Charles Bolton. It is also in English Dance
and Song, June 1959 (not so recent though, but maybe easier to get a copy).

Since Marjorie and Nicolas are working on a volume of all dances reconstructed by Pat,
it will fairly soon become available through them, too.

Probably I just should post it here on this list. That dance has been around for 40
years .... Any objections?

Philippe Callens

================================================================================
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 13:26:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
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All this discussion about Up with Aily has reminded me that I have wondered 
about the pronunciation of "Aily." It seems always to be pronounced as if it 
had a "long I" in the first syllable, but I have read that Aily refers to 
ale, in which case a "long A" would make sense. Does anyony have any insight 
on this? Thanks.

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 12:26:18 PST
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 15:26:22 -0400
From: Patricia Ruggiero <ruggierop-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
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Only what I read in The Playford Ball (Keller and Shimer), which is probably
where you read this.

Pat Ruggiero

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 1:26 PM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot


All this discussion about Up with Aily has reminded me that I have wondered
about the pronunciation of "Aily." It seems always to be pronounced as if it
had a "long I" in the first syllable, but I have read that Aily refers to
ale, in which case a "long A" would make sense. Does anyony have any insight
on this? Thanks.

Carl Friedman

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:22:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:21:54 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007800b3c3b6ce5519-AT-
[140.186.62.141]>
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Earl and I had a tortie cat once we called Aily.  A while later I found out
that ailerophobe means not liking cats.  Apparently there's a greek root.

Anyone else got info?

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:52:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:50:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 07/27/1999 4:23:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elf-AT-
cape.com 
writes:

> Earl and I had a tortie cat once we called Aily.  A while later I found out
>  that ailerophobe means not liking cats.  Apparently there's a greek root.
>  
>  Anyone else got info?

Weeelll...

About fifteen years ago, I tried raising a few rabbits for food and pelts.  I 
let them hop about on the ground, thinking it kinder, gentler, and generally 
more "natural" than the usual suspended wire cages.  After a while, the whole 
lot got infected with "warbles" -- a type of maggot that lives between flesh 
and skin.  End of story.

(Eeeew!)

Reine Wonite
Chico, CA

acupuncturist, dancer, contra and ECD choreographer, contra caller
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 17:16:27 PST
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:24:24 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Genny Shimer's List of 50
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990727200622.0092b9d0-AT-
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I just found a copy of Genny Shimer's "A Repertoire of 50 English Dances,"
with notations by Christine Helwig.  It makes fascinating reading.
Enjoy--
Sharon


A REPERTOIRE OF 50 ENGLISH DANCES

(This list was prepared by Genny Shimer in the '70's.  She considered it a
basic list of dances everyone should know.)

GROUP I

Bishop
Black Nag
Childgrove
Christchurch Bells
Circle Waltz
Cumberland Square 8 *
Dargason
Dressed Ship
Fandango
Flowers of Edinburgh *
Geud Man of Ballangigh
Hole in the Wall
Indian Queen
Jack's Maggot
La Russe *
Margaret's Waltz
Miss Sayer's Allemande
Morpeth Rant *
Mr. Beveridge's Maggot #
Mr. Isaac's Maggot
Newcastle
nonesuch
Old Mole #
Orleans Baffled
Parson's Farewell #
Picking Up Sticks
Prince William
Shrewsbury Lasses
Trip to Paris
Walpole Cottage
Waltz Country Dance
Winster Galop *

GROUP II

(NOTE: Group II was for more advanced dancers.  I [CH] have marked # the
dances that I would place differently, i.e., Rufty Tufty belongs in Group
I, but Parson's Farewell in Group II.)

Apley House
Argeers
Boatman
Chelsea Reach
Fine Companion #
Gathering Peascods
Greensleeves and Yellow Lace
Hey Boys
Hit or Miss
Hunsdon House
Lull Me Beyond Thee
Merry Milkmaids
Pins and Needles *
Quaker's Wife *
Queen's Jig #
Rufty Tufty -AT-

St. Martins
Step Stately

* indicates traditional dances that were emphasized as part of repertoire.
Genny felt strongly about having a good mixture of historical and
traditional dances in our programs.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 00:14:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:12:57 +0200
From: Philippe Callens <Philippe.Callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: looking for article
To: ECD discussion list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <379EAD79.70ED65BF-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be>
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I wonder whether anyone on this list could send me a copy of this next
article.

Title: Rural felicity: social dance in 18th century Connecticut.
Author: Joy Van Cleef
Published in: Dance Perspectives, New York, issue Spring 1976.

No European library is able to deliver the document and the NYPL doesn't
want to send a copy. So ...

Please respond to me privately: philippe.callens-AT-
uia.ua.ac.be


Thanks!

Philippe Callens
Antwerp, Belgium

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 05:50:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 05:52:47 -0700
From: Mary Luckhardt <mary-AT-
luckhardt.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Visiting San Francisco?
To: ECD List <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Are any of the ECD professionals (callers or musicians) reading this list 
planning a visit to the San Francisco Bay Area the weekend of October 23? 
 Would you be interested in a gig in Berkeley that night?  Yes, there is 
a conflict with a Large Private Party, which I why I'm casting my net so 
widely.  Should any of you be interested, please contact me privately, 
and feel free to pass this message to any non-subscribers you think might 
be interested.

On a related topic, is there an established mechanism for travelling 
musicians and teachers to contact dance programmers for possible gigs?  
Although I have a large pool of wonderful local musicians, we have no set 
band or caller for any of our Berkeley dances, and would welcome 
out-of-towners as a special treat, but I don't know how to find them.  
For the record, we book our calendar during the 2 weeks beginning on the 
cross-quarter day preceding the quarter (eg: Oct, Nov, Dec dances are 
booked August 1-15).  Although I'm responsible only for the 4th Saturday 
Experienced Dance, I would be willing to refer anyone who is interested 
to the appropriate programmer for any of the other English dances in the 
BACDS area.

How do other programmers find non-local talent?

Mary Luckhardt
mary-AT-
luckhardt.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 06:17:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 09:02:05 -0400
From: catdancer-AT-
juno.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990728.090835.-119577.14.catdancer-AT-
juno.com>
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And ailurophile is someone who does like cats.  Trust me on this one.

Helen Tuzio
New York
(aka catdancer, feline veterinarian when not on the dancefloor)


On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:21:54 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
writes:
>Earl and I had a tortie cat once we called Aily.  A while later I 
>found out
>that ailerophobe means not liking cats.  Apparently there's a greek 
>root.
>
>Anyone else got info?
>
>Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, 
>Massachusetts
>elf-AT-
cape.com
>Photographer, English Country Dance 
>leader
>
>Small brave carnivores
>Kill pine cones and 
>mosquitoes.
>Fear vacuum cleaner.
>
>from "Kitty Haiku"
>
>

___________________________________________________________________
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================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:33:29 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 12:32:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Step Stately
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990728193221.15451.rocketmail-AT-
web116.yahoomail.com>
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--- adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote

> I remember the first time that I saw Step Stately. It was at a
Hudson > Guild Farm weekend on the occasion of May Gadd's 80th
Birthday. A few > of the long time dancers did it with Gay. I
remember watching and 
> hoping that someday I could learn that beautiful dance. Until I 
> started performing it with Reel Nutmeg, that group at Gay's party
was > the only time I'd ever seen it done without a long laborious
teaching 
> session.

Hmm, I remember it as her 82nd. I will have to get my photo album
out. I took a picture of it, with Gay leading the women's line
around.

Lyrl
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Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:13:01 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:12:40 -0400 (EDT)
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unsubscribe
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:29:35 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:29:17 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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With five cats I'm certainly the ailurophile. What is it when someone is allergic
to them?
Andy in Portland

>Helen Tuzio (aka catdancer) wrote:
>And ailurophile is someone who does like cats.  Trust me on this one.
>

>On Tue, 27 Jul 1999 19:21:54 -0400 "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
>writes:
>>A while later I 
>>found out
>>that ailerophobe means not liking cats.  Apparently there's a greek 
>>root.
>>
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:44:09 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:43:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 07/28/1999 3:30:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
adpete-AT-
jps.net writes:

> With five cats I'm certainly the ailurophile. What is it when someone is 
> allergic
>  to them?

Ailergic?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 18:25:18 PST
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 19:01:02 +0000
From: Susan B Booker <SUSANTIQ-AT-
prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Genny's Shimer's Top Fifty
To: ecd-digest-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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pimout4-int.prodigy.net>
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Thank you for posting this list, Sharon.  It is enlightening to realize
just how strong and long-lived Genny's influence is here in central
Kentucky - these dances are certainly the ones we do most frequently here.
Genny regularly taught at Berea's Christmas School for many years, of
course, and also conducted workshops in and around Lexington about 15 years
ago. It's good to see her legacy  still  with us.

Susan Booker
================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:06:59 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Genny's Shimer's Top Fifty
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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>Susan Booker wrote:
>
>Thank you for posting this list, Sharon.  It is enlightening to realize
>just how strong and long-lived Genny's influence is here in central
>Kentucky - these dances are certainly the ones we do most frequently here.

>Genny regularly taught at Berea's Christmas School for many years, of
>course, and also conducted workshops in and around Lexington about 15 years

>ago. It's good to see her legacy still  with us.
>

Susan has jiggled my memory again. Years ago there was a list of dances sent
out several months before the Berea Spring Dance Festival in April. It included
all of the dances which would be included on the program. There were several
groupings of increasing difficulty. Each group of dancers was expected to learn
all of the easiest grouping before continuing with the next. The list was sent
to Jack and Frances Wright and I don't remember ever having a copy of it. I
wonder if anyone can come up with one from 25-30 years ago. It would be interesting
to compare it to Genny's list.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:05:05 PST
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:04:49 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
jps.net
Subject: Re: Up with Ailey & THe Hare's Maggot
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37a07ba1.14ca.0-AT-
jps.net>
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>In a message dated 07/28/1999 3:30:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
>adpete-AT-
jps.net writes:
>
>> With five cats I'm certainly the ailurophile. What is it when someone is

>> allergic to them?
>
>to which Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com wrote:
>
>Ailergic?
>
>
Works for me.    Andy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:34:31 PST
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Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:33:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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--- Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com> wrote:

> On a related topic, I find it curious how strongly some people hold
> on to
> Sharp interpretations.  I've been anxious to try Colin Hume's
> interpretation of Newcastle, as presented in CDSS News not long
> ago, and
> have been surprised at the resistence of individuals whom I thought
> would
> be interested.  The responses were not "I've read it and it doesn't
> look
> danceable" but more on the order of "Why bother?"

Colin taught his interpretation of Nonesuch at a workshop at NEFFA a
couple years ago. I loved it. Somehow that slipping left and right
from the line of facing couples never felt right to me, and Colin
interpreted it as going forward adouble to the men's wall, towards
the women's, back towards the men's to reform the line...or something
like that. It felt much more comfortable to me within the context of
that dance, which is not otherwise "hoppy."
    ....not even when the first couple meets in the middle to slip
down and turn out. I was taught to balance in--maybe by Gay, maybe by
Genny, but somehow I think it might have been Barbara Harding. Maybe
Andy remembers.

Lyrl 

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Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:18:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:18:20 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Unfounded speculation...
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Colin taught his interpretation of Nonesuch at a workshop at NEFFA a
>couple years ago. I loved it. Somehow that slipping left and right
>from the line of facing couples never felt right to me, and Colin
>interpreted it as going forward adouble to the men's wall, towards
>the women's, back towards the men's to reform the line...or something
>like that. It felt much more comfortable to me within the context of
>that dance, which is not otherwise "hoppy."
>    ....not even when the first couple meets in the middle to slip
>down and turn out. I was taught to balance in--maybe by Gay, maybe by
>Genny, but somehow I think it might have been Barbara Harding. Maybe
>Andy remembers.
>

I don't remember who taught it that way.  It's one of those subtle things that
used to be taught but isn't any longer. The old discussion you and I have had
on occasion about teachers not seeming to know or at least not teaching the
finer points that make the dancing better.

Andy
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:46:01 PST
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Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 18:39:34 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Thank you Boston Centre!
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04205500b3c7d9e3ddfa-AT-
[206.72.193.239]>
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I'm on day two of having the new Boston Centre/Bare Necessities 
recording in my machine at work.

Thank you thank you thank you!  Great Concept and Great Execution.

Mary Beth