Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 05:04:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 08:04:35 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: BALTIMORE PLAYFORD BALL
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s77b2120.026-AT-
loc.gov>
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ECD afficionados:
Crass Ball Advertising:

                     BALTIMORE PLAYFORD BALL
Don't miss the Baltimore Playford Ball. It's Sat., Oct. 2, 1999. It
features great dancing, music by Marty Taylor, Steve Hickman, and
Dave Wiesler, and a festive "tea" catered by the famous Bertha's of
Fells
Point (no mussels, tho. sorry). $20 for members and CDSS members,
$24 for others. Come on down and join us for a wonderful evening!

for more info, email me at smckinley-AT-
loc.gov, or call me at
410-740-3250
  sharon "ball chair for life?" mckinley, and not an official ball
purveyor for any govenment agency, but surely for local folk
societies

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 09:41:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen D Corrsin <sdc16-AT-
columbia.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: yoo hoo, mr listowner
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9907011237040.25596-100000-AT-
sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu>
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I tried to unsubscribe and couldn't. Regardless, please strike my name
from the list of the righteous. I'm packing up my office now preparatory
to driving (at last) to Michigan. 

Anyone who wants to reach me out west: 5166 Patrick Rd., West Bloomfield,
Mich. 48322 (248)661-6283. 

I'll probably re-enlist when I get set up way out there. I just can't wait
for the next time "clapping in Petronella" comes up.

best
Steve Corrsin

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 10:01:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 12:04:11 -0500
From: Gloria Krusemeyer <gloria-AT-
microassist.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: yoo hoo, mr listowner
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <005d01bec3e3$bdebeae0$a222a3d1-AT-
gloria>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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--snip--
>I'll probably re-enlist when I get set up way out there. I just
can't wait
>for the next time "clapping in Petronella" comes up.

That reminds me.  I had an amusing Petronella clapping situation.

I was at the MWSD Nationals, and wandered over to see what
MWSD-contras were like.  It was a time warp back to what I've
heard the '40's might have been like, with most of the exuberance
removed and some problems with phrasing.

The stereotype: MWSDers are the people in crinolines (for the
women), have matching outfits for couples, and sometimes travel
as a caravan of RV's.  They do mostly squares, but also "cued"
rounds, contras, clogging, and line-dancing.  Virtually all
dancing is done to canned music.

Anyway, they did a Petronella that was not quite the
really-traditional only-actives, but there was no hand holding in
the diamond during the balances.

They all clapped at the beginning of the balances, while I
clapped in that annoying just-before-the-hand holding and
balances.  It actually sounded nice.

Gloria Krusemeyer


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:52:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 19:56:40 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Seattle Ball date
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990702195640.007a4100-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The Seattle English Country Ball will be held on Saturday, January 22, 2000. 

There will be the usual festivities associated with it-- a dance on Friday
night, a workshop on Saturday afternoon, a brunch on Sunday.

Please note that this is NOT the Martin Luther King weekend, but the
weekend after MLK.  We wanted to alert you about the change of date before
you purchased plane tickets.  

For more information, contact

Paul Bestock
509 Lake WA Blvd East
Seattle WA, 98112

phone 206-329-7289
e-mail bestockp-AT-
oz.net

Victoria Bestock 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:05:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 00:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [fwd from Marti Sterin] A Star is Born
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JD3W1BI2HE90NSOS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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From: Marti Sterin <samrah-AT-
together.net>

I just received the following from David Barnert who many of you know.
However since he said ".....I'm resisting the temptation to post the news to
several mailing lists."  I, who have no such resistance am passing this
along.  Here is his message:

David's note:

I'm very excited.

The news (!) :

I will be the featured on-air puzzle player on National Public
Radio's Weekend Edition Puzzle this coming Sunday, July 4th. We
finished taping the segment by phone a few moments ago (Friday).

This is neat!

Background:

For those unfamiliar with the program, National Public Radio (NPR)
has a news/information program called "Weekend Edition" that airs
across the country and overseas. On Saturday, it is hosted by
Scott Simon, and on Sunday it is hosted by Liane Hansen. Every
week, on the Sunday program, there is a 15-minute segment where
"Puzzlemaster" Will Schortz (Crossword puzzle editor of the New
York Times) reviews and answers last week's puzzle, presents an
on-air puzzle (a series of tricky word-play questions) by phone
hook-up to a randomly chosen listener who sent in the correct
answer to last week's puzzle, and then presents a new puzzle for
the coming week.

I send in answers maybe once every month or two. Last week's
puzzle was very easy. I got it as soon as I heard it. I was
randomly chosen from approximately 1200 (or did he say 12,000?)
correct entries.

The details:

"Weekend Edition Sunday" is a two hour program that is broadcast
at different times by different stations. It's usually in the
morning, but here in Albany it starts at noon. In addition, the
two hours are interchangeable. Not all stations broadcast them in
the same order, and some stations repeat one or both of the hours
throughout the morning (ABA or ABAB or ABABAB, etc.).

The puzzle segment always happens at about 40+ minutes after the
hour, and it's the hour that starts with the "Voices in the News"
segment right after the hourly news.

<snip>


Check the NPR web site http://www.npr.org/members/ for local
stations elsewhere. Then find out from your station (web site or
phone or program guide) when "Weekend Edition Sunday" is on.

Listen for me either 40 minutes or an hour and 40 minutes into the
show, during the hour that (at 6 minutes after) starts with "These
were some of the voices in the news this past week." The puzzle is
always introduced with something like "You're listening to Weekend
Edition. This is Liane Hansen and joining us is Puzzlemaster Will
Schortz..." In Boston, it's WBUR (90.9 FM) at 8:40 and 10:40. In
New York City, it's WNYC (93.9 FM) at 8:40 and 10:40.

Complete information about "Weekend Edition Sunday" is posted at
http://www.npr.org/programs/wesun/ and there's a link there to the
puzzle. After the broadcast, there will also be a link so you can
hear it on the web. Another link directs you to a newsgroup where
you can read a summary.

<snip>

Let's all listen in and cheer him on!

Marti Sterin
samrah-AT-
together.net




===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 22:54:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 23:47:44 -0600
From: William DeRagon <wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990703.234745.-832245.0.wderagon-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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"It is a sad, but indisputable fact that the older collections of
country-dances have now yielded all or almost all that they are likely to
yield.  Eighteenth century dance-books indeed continue to turn up, with
here and there a tune or an isolated dance-figure which seems worth
preserving; but -- failing some unforeseen piece of good luck -- there is
little prospect of more."  - Marjorie Heffer and William Porter, Preface
to "Maggot Pie", 1932.

While 'not quite' true in 1932, is this any 'more' true now?

Heffer & Porter were basing their opinion on the 'modern' publications
to-date:  Sharp's ECD series, 'The New Series' by Douglas & Helen
Kennedy, "Twelve Traditional Country Dances" by Maud Karpeles & Ralph
Vaughan Williams, and their own (along with Arthur Heffer) "Apted Book". 
I see their statement as 'not quite' true because of the many wonderful
historic dances (re)interpreted since 1932.  CD*NY's list of repertoire
dances is a useful gauge:  43 of those 50 dances date from 1801 or
earlier (perhaps 45, depending on the vintages of Morpeth Rant and
Nottingham Swing); however, 16 were interpreted and made available to the
dancing community after 1932 (by Kennedy, Gadd, Shaw, Simons, Bentley,
Cook & Sheffield).  There obviously were still a few good prospects left
in the historic pool.

Heffer & Porter made their statement in support of writing _new_ dance
figures (and, apparently, strong justification was needed for this nearly
sacrilegious idea at that time).  We now enjoy many beautiful, modern
dances created in the style/look/feel of historic ECDs (viz., 'Chestnuts
of 2297').

Still, are there any _good_ historic dances still out there waiting for
discovery?

William DeRagon
Albuquerque, NM  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 09:29:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 12:38:17 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990704120752.0092be40-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 11:47 PM 7/3/99 -0600, you wrote:

>Still, are there any _good_ historic dances still out there waiting for
>discovery?

David and I just got back from England where, at Lichfield Festival, we
attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's dances.  Not only is
Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking researcher, but he is a fine
judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he introduced were worth
doing, and two of them were gems.  Yes, there are good historic dances out
there waiting to be introduced to country dancers.  But just as Jacqueline
Schwab had to go through a ton of material before she found Barbarini's
Tambourine, I expect Andrew had to reject quite a few Kynaston dances
before he came up with his Lichfield program.  "There is gold in them thar
hills," but it takes a lot of digging to find it, and we're lucky to have
folks like Andrew doing the digging.

Sharon Green

 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 07:47:02 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 12:20:45 -0330
From: "Martin E. Mulligan" <mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Assembly Ball in Edinburgh
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04011705b3a6811a89a3-AT-
[134.153.108.151]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Folks,

I inadvertently posted a message some two weeks ago in which I
discussed attending the Assembly Ball in Edinburgh.

Now that I have returned home from my travels, I want to
deliberately post this message to thank Nicolas Broadbridge for
encouraging me to attend and to urge all of you to do likewise
should you have the chance.

The Evening was splendid on all accounts though I will treasure
most the music of A&B - Aidan Broadbridge and Brian Prenctice.
They will issue a CD next year of the music which I will recommend
heartily.  I purchased the Assembly Players new CD (with last
year's program) which is a joy to listen to.  There was no advance
booking that I noticed - everyone just upped and asked a partner
for the next dance.  The program for the Ball was daunting for me
- I had never heard of many of the dances let alone danced them -
and the thursday night practice session was invaluable.  Now I
have a bunch of new dances to inflict on ..err, introduce to our
group next fall.

So thanks Nicolas, Nell, A&B, and all the members of the Glasgow
and Edinburgh Assembly for a memorable time.

Martin

=========================================================================
Martin E. Mulligan
St. John's (Newfoundland)
mulligan-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca
=========================================================================ĢÓ
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 16:03:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:02:36 +1000
From: Nancy Hoffmann <Nancy.Hoffmann-AT-
aceinfo.net.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Colonial Ball in Brisbane, Australia
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110717b3a6e0923576-AT-
[203.100.13.61]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Martin posted about the Assembly Ball in Edinburgh so I thought I would
tell you that similar Balls are alive and well at the oposite end of the
earth.

I don't profess to be an expert on Australian Colonial dancing - I only
started last year.Judging from the postings on this group I would say our
dancing is very similar to ECD.

We had Ball Cards and there *was* a mad rush to secure partners at the
beginning - all available males were soon booked out and strolled around
looking smug. However, there were very few out of town visitors so perhaps
that is why in this instance it worked well and almost every female had a
partner for every dance. The weeks of practice paid off; it was a joy to
whirl around as part of one huge coordinated throng. There was a live 5
piece band which included a small concertina - an essential Australian bush
dance instrument.

Here are some of the dances, many of them with a distinctly Australian
flavour; some were published in 1884. The proceedings started off with a
splendid Grand March.

Danish Double Quadrille - learnt from a Brisbane Danish group, almost
identical to the Double Quadrille.

The King's Waltz - commonly done in districts to the north and NW of
Toowoomba (about 100 miles from Brisbane), an area populated by Germans in
the 1870's.

Country Bumpkin - performed at a wedding in Sydney in 1803 and published in
1809.

Margaret's Waltz - Pat Shaw

One for the Money - New England Contra

Boston Two Step - by Tom Walton - became very popular in Australia - has
undergone a few changes on the way

Prince of Wales Scottische - various versions exist around Australia

Mr Beveridge's Maggot
Brisbane Quadrille - published in 1884
Petronella - published in 1884
Merry Widow Waltz
The Sweets of May
Posties Jig
Thady You Gander
Stockton Bridge
Polka Quadrille
Valse Espagnole
Varsovienne

Are any of these names familiar? - just curious.

I'm also taking this opportunity to announce that Brisbane's inaugural
Playford Ball will be held on October 23rd this year. If anyone is visiting
Brisbane at that time - please come! October is late Spring - rather late
in the season for balls - fabulous weather in Brisbane, which will be at
its best with the early jacarandas just  starting to flower.

Nancy Hoffmann
Brisbane, Australia







================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:03:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:02:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Howard Mitchell <howardgmitchell-AT-
yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <19990706160216.29729.rocketmail-AT-
web113.yahoomail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Sharon Green wrote:
> 
> David and I just got back from England where, at
> Lichfield Festival, we
> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
> dances.  Not only is
> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
> researcher, but he is a fine
> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
> introduced were worth
> doing, and two of them were gems.

I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

From the musician's point of view (I was the bass
player in the band, Stradivarious) there were some
interesting phrase lengths, 10 bars, 14 bars etc which
required a little explaining to the dancers.

I'll pass your comments on to Andrew as he is not
technologically enabled.

> Yes, there are
> good historic dances out
> there waiting to be introduced to country dancers. 
> But just as Jacqueline
> Schwab had to go through a ton of material before
> she found Barbarini's
> Tambourine, I expect Andrew had to reject quite a
> few Kynaston dances
> before he came up with his Lichfield program. 

I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
he was able to identify the series of publications
that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
them).  Although he could point to other publications
in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
particular years that I had found.  So there is some
material yet to be found but I have to confess that
the dances I turned up were nothing special.

Howard Mitchell



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:23:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:32:04 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990706121905.00b58e50-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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At 09:02 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Howard Mitchell wrote:
>Sharon Green wrote:
>> 
>> David and I just got back from England where, at
>> Lichfield Festival, we
>> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
>> dances.  Not only is
>> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
>> researcher, but he is a fine
>> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
>> introduced were worth
>> doing, and two of them were gems.
>
>I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
>be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
>finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

That was one of the two I especially liked; the other was Count Leon.

>I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
>from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
>he was able to identify the series of publications
>that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
>them).  Although he could point to other publications
>in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
>particular years that I had found.  So there is some
>material yet to be found but I have to confess that
>the dances I turned up were nothing special.

My feeling is that if the music is wonderful, it's worth taking a serous
look at the dance.  If the tune's not much, an otherwise intriguing
arrangement of figures is likely to fall flat.  But how great that you were
able to find new stuff, even though it was less special than you would have
liked.

Thanks for conveying our regards to Andrew.  And thanks also for your good
music at Lichfield!

Sharon Green
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:23:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:32:04 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4.1.19990706121905.00b58e50-AT-
popserver.panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 09:02 AM 7/6/99 -0700, Howard Mitchell wrote:
>Sharon Green wrote:
>> 
>> David and I just got back from England where, at
>> Lichfield Festival, we
>> attended Andrew Shaw's workshop on Master Kynaston's
>> dances.  Not only is
>> Andrew an engaging caller and a painstaking
>> researcher, but he is a fine
>> judge of what makes a dance work: all the dances he
>> introduced were worth
>> doing, and two of them were gems.
>
>I'd be interested to know which ones you considered to
>be gems.  Mr. Kynaston's Famous Dance which Andrew
>finished with seemed to go down particularly well.

That was one of the two I especially liked; the other was Count Leon.

>I recently came across some printed tunes and dances
>from 1809 and 1819.  I showed them to Andrew Shaw and
>he was able to identify the series of publications
>that they were from (Button and Whitaker  was one of
>them).  Although he could point to other publications
>in the series in libraries, he had no reference to the
>particular years that I had found.  So there is some
>material yet to be found but I have to confess that
>the dances I turned up were nothing special.

My feeling is that if the music is wonderful, it's worth taking a serous
look at the dance.  If the tune's not much, an otherwise intriguing
arrangement of figures is likely to fall flat.  But how great that you were
able to find new stuff, even though it was less special than you would have
liked.

Thanks for conveying our regards to Andrew.  And thanks also for your good
music at Lichfield!

Sharon Green
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 09:24:00 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:21:08 -0400
From: Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <37822CF4.133A2578-AT-
harvard.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <4.1.19990704120752.0092be40-AT-
popserver.panix.com>

I have always viewed Heffer and Porter's poignant lament as short-sighted.
"Indisputable"? Really? It scarcely stands to reason that all the old and
unrediscovered dances are good, nor can they all be inferior. What I sometimes
wonder is whether some dances seem dull or graceless because we don't yet
understand them--we haven't mastered the feeling of them, don't phrase the
movements correctly, or hear and play the music at the wrong tempo. I think
it's true of many dances that their virtues are not apparent from the
page--except to the insightful scholar or "dancing master"--and demand patient
reconstruction and demonstration.
There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances
that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
disappeared almost entirely now? So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others
may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
Graham
P.S. And not to forget Bolton's ongoing *Retreads* series...
G


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:06:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 12:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JD8RJH938U9JD253-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
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Graham Christian writes many things I agree with:

  I have always viewed Heffer and Porter's poignant lament as short-sighted.
  "Indisputable"? Really? It scarcely stands to reason that all the old and
  unrediscovered dances are good, nor can they all be inferior. What I sometimes
  wonder is whether some dances seem dull or graceless because we don't yet
  understand them--we haven't mastered the feeling of them, don't phrase the
  movements correctly, or hear and play the music at the wrong tempo. 

Or the dance 'works' with period footwork and doesn't otherwise; Sharp's
agenda might have kept him from reconstructing, eg, Draper's Maggot with
a minuet step, and the dance doesn't phrase quite right with a walking step.

  I think it's true of many dances that their virtues are not apparent from the
  page--except to the insightful scholar or "dancing master"--and demand patient
  reconstruction and demonstration.

Hear, hear!  (For a modern case, I find Gary Roodman's dances to, generally,
be such wonderful expressions of the music that they don't necessarily look
that intriguing on the page, but are fabulous to dance.  They don't come to 
life until you move around.  And this is with a modern choreographer who 
writes clearly and unambiguously.)


  There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances
  that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
  disappeared almost entirely now? So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
  seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
  discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others
  may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"


We've probably beaten to death the change in fashions in contradancing,
probably because that's happened fast enough for people to notice.  (Triple
minors out, duple minor improper roughly-equal with a partner swing in.)  It
might be an interesting research project to try to determine the change in 
ECD fashions over the nearly-a-century of the revival.  I wonder how far back
Playford Ball programs are available.


Not in direct response to Graham, but anent the rest of this thread:  I expect
that there are yet wonderful tunes and splendid dances unreconstructed.  I
further expect -- I use this formulation because I'm talking through my hat --
that are wonderful tunes and splendid dances which have been reconstructed and
abandoned because they turned out to compete for dance-program niches with too
many other similar dances or tunes.  (I have a misty picture of a dance ecology
here, where little scurrying figures labeled "Well Hall" and "Bellamira"
battle, tooth and claw, for breeding space and food.)  How many easy waltz
country dances do you need, especially when some areas have distinct
repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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---Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu> wrote:
: in thirty years, others
> may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"

Well not the title, that much is certain.

Maybe we call 'em maggots because one just flies through the dance.

(Yes, I know that a "maggot" is a whim or a fancy.  But it still
sounds unappetizing to me.)

Barbara Ruth

_________________________________________________________
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From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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What's in a maggot?

Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot (proper
name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the origin by
the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.

Feel better, Barbara?

Albert Blank
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:32:35 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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>
>---Graham Christian <graham_christian-AT-
harvard.edu> wrote:
>: in thirty years, others
>> may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
>
>Well not the title, that much is certain.
>
>Maybe we call 'em maggots because one just flies through the dance.
>
>(Yes, I know that a "maggot" is a whim or a fancy.  But it still
>sounds unappetizing to me.)
>
>Barbara Ruth
>

Some of my favorite dances are maggots and there are so many GOOD ones.

Andy Peterson in Portland
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 16:53:28 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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>Alan Winston writes:
>
>We've probably beaten to death the change in fashions in contradancing,
>probably because that's happened fast enough for people to notice.  (Triple

>minors out, duple minor improper roughly-equal with a partner swing in.)  It

>might be an interesting research project to try to determine the change in

>ECD fashions over the nearly-a-century of the revival.  I wonder how far back

>Playford Ball programs are available.

I have quite a few from New York, Hartford and Boston (including George Fogg's
Washington's Birthday Balls) from the early 80's until I moved to Oregon. I've
kept them in a file to refer to for breif instructions if I'm putting a program
together (which I haven't done for several years). I'm sure others have probably
kept at least some of the early ones.
>
>Not in direct response to Graham, but anent the rest of this thread:  I expect

>that there are yet wonderful tunes and splendid dances unreconstructed.  I

>further expect -- I use this formulation because I'm talking through my hat
--
>that are wonderful tunes and splendid dances which have been reconstructed
and
>abandoned because they turned out to compete for dance-program niches with
too
>many other similar dances or tunes.  (I have a misty picture of a dance ecology

>here, where little scurrying figures labeled "Well Hall" and "Bellamira"
>battle, tooth and claw, for breeding space and food.)  How many easy waltz

>country dances do you need, especially when some areas have distinct
>repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?

I think many of the old dances have gotten pushed aside because SOME people
want the most complex dances they can find. I think they get some perverse satisfaction
out of proving they can get through the complex ones. I dance for pleasure and
would rather do more of those older less complex dances. I like to be able to
enjoy the dance and the music and not have to concentrate so hard on the complexities
that the pleasure is lost. 
How many easy waltz country dances do you need? MANY as far as I'm concerned.
I could do a whole evening of my favorite 3/2 and 3/4 country dances and still
want more.

Andy in Portland
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 17:06:31 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
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Graham Christian wrote:

>There are fashions in English Country Dance as in everything; how many dances

>that were inevitable favorites in Sharp's day, or May Gadd's day, have
>disappeared almost entirely now? 
    There are many dances that I remember doing with great pleasure with Gay
and Genny and other teachers. It is as much influenced by what catches a teachers
fancy. If the old dances are never taught, how can peole find out how truly
great they are? 
    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.
    We enjoy the new dances, but let's not forget where they came from.

Andy in Portland

>So with Heffer and Porter: it may well have
>seemed that all the dances that answered to *their* tastes had been
>discovered--but times have changed. And so with us: in thirty years, others

>may say, "What in the *world* did they see in Lady __'s Maggot?"
>Graham
>P.S. And not to forget Bolton's ongoing *Retreads* series...
>G
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 22:18:41 -0400
From: Sharon Green <mls-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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At 05:06 PM 7/6/99 +0700, adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
>called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
>done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
>evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
>dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.

Okay, Andy, now tell us the program...
Sharon Green (always looking for programming ideas)
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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At 05:06 PM 7/6/99 +0700, adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

>    My 50th birthday this year fell on a Fourth Friday ECD night and Nan Evans
>called dances of my choosing that evening. They were mostly dances that were
>done at the Wrights house when I was learning ECD. At some point during the
>evening, Nan came over and thanked me for reminding her that these wonderfull
>dances were out there. Many were ones she hadn't done in years.

Okay, Andy, now tell us the program...
Sharon Green (always looking for programming ideas)
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 00:31:22 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Al Blank wrote:

> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is
> the origin by the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim. 

I wasn't aware that Maggot was a girl's nickname.  Thanks for 
pointing it out.  Al, are you sure about the connection between the 
nickname and the whim or fancy meaning?  Sounds suspiciously like 
folk etymology to me.  

If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute pun 
since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any 
earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 07:37:34 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)	-Reply
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  rich sez:
  If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute
pun 
since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot,"

  your pun gets better when you know that the betty in morris dancing
is a guy dressed as a woman.
  sharon "so is a gal dressed as a guy a Bill?" mckinley, and not an
official cross-dresser for any government agency
>>> Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> 07/06 8:31 pm >>>
Al Blank wrote:

> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is
> the origin by the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim. 

I wasn't aware that Maggot was a girl's nickname.  Thanks for 
pointing it out.  Al, are you sure about the connection between the 
nickname and the whim or fancy meaning?  Sounds suspiciously like 
folk etymology to me.  

If you are right about the nickname connection, it would be a cute pun

since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any

earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================

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Subject: Re: What's in a Name?
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---Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> What's in a maggot?
> 
> Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
(proper
> name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the
origin by
> the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.
> 
> Feel better, Barbara?


Sorry Al, that just makes me wonder about poor Margaret's friends.

It also explains why the nickname for Margaret nowadays is "Peggy."

Barbara Ruth

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From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Margaret by Any Other Name
To: ECD-AT-
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> ---Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > What's in a maggot?
> > 
> > Perhaps it will seem less unappetizing if you know that Maggot
> (proper
> > name) was an affectionate diminutive for Margaret. Such is the
> origin by
> > the folk process of maggot meaning fancy or whim.


So, if someone were to write a dance "George Davis' Delight" it
would, by definition, be a Maggot.

Barbara Ruth (aka Baru)

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Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?)
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Concerning the origins of "maggot":
The Oxford English Dictionary is my source.  Note that we use Maggie as
a diminutive of Margaret to this day.  It's easy to see how an
endearment like Maggot could evolve in this way ... my Maggot, my pet
... my fancy.

-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
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In response to Graham Christian, Alan wrote:

>How many easy waltz country dances do you need, especially when some areas
>have distinct
>repertoires and limited space to put new dances in?
>
>-- Alan

I'm a little confused, and perhaps a bit troubled, by the comment: "some
areas have distinct
repertoires and limited space to put new dances in."

Does this mean that in some dance circles a very limited number of dances
are done and no new dances can be introduced without taken something else
off the list? (My use of the term "new" is intended to mean either "new" as
in 20th C. or "new" as in previously not danced here.)

What is the size of the "distinct repertoire" these areas are dealing with?
Does the area have a "distinct repertoire" because the teachers aren't
finding, or looking for, new material or are the dancers reluctant to try
the unfamiliar? We all have our favorites that we enjoy doing at frequent
intervals, but I can't imagine limiting my repertoire.

Lou Vosteen
==========
"A man's mind, stretched by an original idea, never regains its original
dimensions." - Oliver Wendel Holmes
==========




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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 11:21:33 +0700
From: adpete-AT-
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Subject: Re: What's in a Name?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Albert Blank wrote:

>Concerning the origins of "maggot":
>The Oxford English Dictionary is my source.  Note that we use Maggie as
>a diminutive of Margaret to this day.  It's easy to see how an
>endearment like Maggot could evolve in this way ... my Maggot, my pet
>.... my fancy.
>

Or an alternative nickname for Margaret would be Margie. If you pronounce the
"g" with a "y" sound, as found in Swedish for instance, you could find the roots
of Mary. Who knows the beginnings of names??

Andy Peterson
Portland, Oregon
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999 adpete-AT-
jps.net wrote:

 . . .  Who knows the beginnings of names??

Well, there's quite a bit of information in some dictionaries; the
American Heritage Dictionary is one place to start.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:20:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Buffalo Gap
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   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next week?
I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on this list
so say hi when/if we meet there.

   I'm breaking up my trip with the contra dance in Pittsburgh on Friday
night so if anyone else is going to that perhaps I'll see you there as well.

Jonathan

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|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
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From: RLHAYDEN-AT-
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Whoa, whoa, gang!  The roots of names and nicknames have been quite
thoroughly studied by linguists:  we don't need to try to guess about them!
(Margaret is from Greek; Mary is from Hebrew, for instance.)

Robin (diminutive of Robert, Teutonic for "bright in fame;" reference to
sprightly little bird obvious as well) Layzer (variant of Lazar, from
Hebrew via Yiddish via Ellis Island) Hayden (if I remember correctly, from
Irish or Teutonic meaning "from the hill").
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 13:07:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
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Lou Vosteen quoted me and wrote:

  I'm a little confused, and perhaps a bit troubled, by the comment: "some
  areas have distinct
  repertoires and limited space to put new dances in."

  Does this mean that in some dance circles a very limited number of dances
  are done and no new dances can be introduced without taken something else
  off the list? (My use of the term "new" is intended to mean either "new" as
  in 20th C. or "new" as in previously not danced here.)

I don't know of any mainstream ECD circles in which this is completely
true. [In Regency dancing as done in Los Angeles, the repertoire
consists of the  roughly 20 dances, some newly-choreographed, some
imported from ECD, for  which audio tapes have been prepared, and it
expands very slowly indeed. I dropped that feature in moving Regency
dancing to the SF Bay Area, and there is no restriction on repertoire,
although there have been requests from  some dancers for _less_ variety
at balls so they can just show up in costume at the balls and not have
to learn anything.]

I hear -- and maybe someone who's directly involved should say more
about this -- that in the CD*NY teacher training program, there's a
repertoire of some  fifty dances that each teacher should be able to
teach, and I expect will have taught by the time they graduate.

In the SF Bay Area, each dance series tries to get through all the
dances on  the Playford Ball program at least once in the season, and
most do the same for the Fall Ball program as well.  (Many of those
dances are local favorites anyway, to be sure.)  Getting through those
limits the number of non-Ball dances you can do.  Further, I've been
advised - and found that it worked better, for that matter -- to limit
the number of brand-new dances in an  evening with experienced dancers. 
They love new dances, but they don't want to spend the whole evening
_working_, so I need to include enough familiar dances  that they feel
like they went to a dance rather than a workshop.  [This is all my
personal and local experience, and obviously doesn't apply in all
cases.  And for that matter it's my projection of motive on to the
dancers, but since I've restricted material not commonly done in the
area to about a quarter of my programs, I've had happier dancers, so 
I'm inclined to think the projection is correct.]

  What is the size of the "distinct repertoire" these areas are dealing with?
  Does the area have a "distinct repertoire" because the teachers aren't
  finding, or looking for, new material or are the dancers reluctant to try
  the unfamiliar? We all have our favorites that we enjoy doing at frequent
  intervals, but I can't imagine limiting my repertoire.

Perhaps "distinct repertoire" was a misleading way to phrase this.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:05:10 -0400
From: David Woolf <dwoolf-AT-
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Johnathon -

I'll be doing sound for the week, so we will finally have a chance to
meet.

-David Woolf
================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:26:36 -0400
From: MARTHA C DAVEY <marthacd-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
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I'll be there
Martha Davey



On Wed, 07 Jul 1999 14:20:55 -0500 (CDT) Jonathan Sivier
<j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> writes:
>   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next 
>week?
>I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on 
>this list
>so say hi when/if we meet there.
>
>   I'm breaking up my trip with the contra dance in Pittsburgh on 
>Friday
>night so if anyone else is going to that perhaps I'll see you there as 
>well.
>
>Jonathan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the  
> |
>|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                    
> |
>|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you 
>call. |
>|  Beckman Institute             |                                     
> |
>|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male          
> |
>|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                
> |
>|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                     
> |
>|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.            
> |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                  
> |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Martha
Martha Davey
25-14 37 ST,
Astoria, NY 11103
(718)278-4389    voice/fax #(917)463-9781 (NYC area code)
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From: "Susan R. Lorand" <srl-AT-
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On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Jonathan Sivier wrote:

>    Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo Gap next week?
> I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words I've been reading on this list
> so say hi when/if we meet there.

i'll be there, and so will several others on this list (but i'll let them
speak for themselves!).

susie lorand
princeton, nj

================================================================================
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:04:57 -0400
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu>

RLHAYDEN-AT-
amherst.edu wrote:

> Whoa, whoa, gang!  The roots of names and nicknames have been quite
> thoroughly studied by linguists:  we don't need to try to guess about them!
> (Margaret is from Greek; Mary is from Hebrew, for instance.)
>

(I'm not sure what the "whoa, whoa" is about or who was guessing.  Maybe I
missed a message or 2.)

The question wasn't so much about the roots of names (although that's
interesting, too) as it is about etymology of the whim or fancy meaning for
"maggot."  I questioned the derivation of the whim or fancy meaning from a
nickname for Margaret.  Al was kind enough to provide an authoritative source--
the OED, no less.  (Although I'm cautious enough to look for corroborative info
even for the OED's etymology.)  I've provided several other references below
which might be of interest.  I found the bit about Jonathan Swift particularly
interesting.

I only have access to an abridged version of the OED.  Could someone with
access to the full version (Michigan, Virginia and several other large
universities have subscribe to the on-line version) please look it up and quote
the full text of the definition of "maggot?"

Also, if anyone has access to Swift's "Mechanical Operation of the Spirit,"
which was published in _Tales of a Tub_, it would be interesting to see exactly
what Swift said about inspiration being caused by maggots biting nerves in the
brain.

And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major university please
look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle English
Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another greater
resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)

Here's the references to definitions of "maggot" I came up with:

From Webster's _The American Dictionary of the English Language_, 1828:
"A whim; an odd fancy. "

From _The Dictionary of Phrase and Fable_, 1894:
"Maggot Maggoty. Whimsical, full of whims and fancies. Fancy tunes used to be
called maggots, hence we have “Barker's maggots,” “Cary's maggots,” “Draper's
maggots,” etc. (Dancing Master, 1721.)
   When the maggot bites. When the fancy takes us. Swift tells us that it was
the opinion of certain virtuosi that the brain is filled with little worms or
maggots, and that thought is produced by these worms biting the nerves. “If the
bite is hexagonal it produces poetry; if circular, eloquence; if conical,
politics, etc. (Mechanical Operation of the Spirit [1704--RG].)
   Instead of maggots the Scotch say, “His head is full of bees;” the French,
“Il a des rats dans la tźte;” and in Holland, “He has a mouse's nest in his
head."

From _"The Folk File; A Folkie's Dictionary"_, 1997:
"maggot a fairly rare word meaning a dance or the tune for that dance. The
Playford Dancing Master lists many, including "Betty's Maggot", "Huntington's
Maggot", and "Captain's Maggot". The derivation of the word has nothing to do
with larvae, but comes from a ME word meaning "whim" or "odd fancy" (the word
fancy also appears in tunes for dancing), [Hmm.  I'd reserve judgment on this
assertion until someone can verify it in the _Middle English Dictionary_--RG]
which would also indicate that there may not be any specific dance steps.  See
also fiddle tunes.
---
"fiddle tunes fiddle tunes are categorized into a few main types. These are,
generally, hornpipes, strathspeys, reels and jigs (and occasionally, from the
Irish tradition, a planxty or humour). An air or fancy or maggot tends to be a
tune that doesn't fit the other categories. "

From _The WWWebster Dictionary_, 1997:
"Main Entry: mag·got
Pronunciation: 'ma-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mathek, magotte, of Scandinavian origin; akin to Old
Norse mathkr maggot; akin to Old English matha maggot
Date: 14th century
1 : a soft-bodied legless grub that is the larva of a dipterous insect (as the
housefly)
2 : a fantastic or eccentric idea : WHIM"

Rich (who knows several "Margaret"s called "Margot," but none called "Maggot")
Galloway


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Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 16:57:23 PST
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:54:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
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The Assembly Ball - Edinburgh 1999
	I must thank Martin Mulligan for his most generous comments anent our 
Ball on June 26th. It was for all of us a really  lovely evening, made all 
the better by the presence of Martin (in Edinburgh for a conference), Helene 
Cornelius (who flew over specially to come to the Ball - wow!!!) and one of 
our members who spends most of the year in Texas but flew back to her home in 
Scotland for a week in order to come to the Ball.
	One very small correction to Martin's posting: when we record this 
year's Ball programme next Christmas ('Pat Shaw's Playford') it will be The 
Assembly Players (three piece Band) who record it, and not 'A&B'; they play 
for the Ball, but rope in the old man to make a band recording later! Of 
course, the year will come when ...
	Last year's Ball, 'Dance & Danceability', is the recently released CD 
to which Martin referred, and comprises twenty one dances published in Jane 
Austen's lifetime. A second CD by the Band has just this week been released: 
it comprises fifteen new compositions by John Wood with new tunes by Chris 
Carpenter, and is called 'My Family and other Dances'.
	Referring to recent postings on the subject of 'quarrying' fresh 
dances from the C17th and C18th collections, I can quite understand the 
Kennedys' and Heffers' viewpoint; after all, Sharp had plundered only the 
earlier editions of the DM, and himself promoted the mind-set that anything 
published later was thoroughly decadent and therefore not worthy of 
resuscitation; times, fashions and points of
view change, and Sharp's death, followed by a world war fifteen years later, 
allowed a completely fresh approach to such things, making possible Pat 
Shaw's long running monthly series, 'Another look at Playford' (at C. Sharp 
House 1951- 74).
	Marjorie Fennessy and I are just starting work on all of Pat's 
research material, with a view to publication. Pat 'had a look' at all of 
Bray's dances, much of Kynaston (I well remember Count Leon), much of Wilson, 
Essex/Feuilet, Dukes, Wright, Walsh, Rutherford, and many other collections, 
including, of course, The Dancing Master in all its editions and three 
volumes.
	In no way do I wish to belittle the work of Tom Cook, Charles Bolton, 
Fried de Metz Herman et al. who have found and published some lovely dances 
and tunes (many of which are favourites of mine), but in a way Pat paved the 
way for their researches; and his transcriptions are very often definitive. 
There was a limit to what he could transcribe and teach in one lifetime, 
particularly when that lifetime was cut short at the age of fifty nine, but 
it is significant that many of the better dances and tunes published in later 
years are to be found noted by him in his notebooks.
	Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland (where, contrary to popular belief and 
the wishes of the Nationalists, we have not yet drawn up the drawbridge to 
England!).
	PS Apologies for the length of this homily. N. 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 17:25:49 PST
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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 20:25:35 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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I've often thought the minimum basic repertoire in modern ECD is around
200. We could make lists if we wanted and it might be very instructive.  At
our dance we do about 15 dances each evening, at least 2 of which are
repeats from earlier in the evening - during our request period.  In
addition, each month we do a dance of the month once each week, to polish
it after we learn it.

But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were to publish
a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years or so.  Now that
would let us see how trends bring new material in and discard old, and what
the true chestnuts are!

One of our dancers has been maintaining a database of the programs we do
for quite a long time now.  At least 10 years, maybe more.  Each year he
looks to see which dances get done most because we have the request hour,
which gives us a clue about what the dancers like as opposed to what the
leaders offer.

But we've discussed this before.......

                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
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From: JBGrun-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: Maggots, continued
To: ECD-AT-
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I swore I wasn't going to join this discussion but I can't help myself. I 
checked out my 2 volume 1950 ed. of Webster's Unabridged New International 
Dictionary and, in addition to the stuff everyone else has found concerning 
maggots, it says : "3. Music. A composition of impromptu character. Obs. 
Naturally this led me to the Oxford Companion of Music, 9th ed, which says, 
under MAGGOT: "In older English, a fanciful idea, and so, by extension, a 
pleasant piece of music—generally a country dance (q.v.) with somebody's name 
attached, presumably in a complimentary way, e.g. 'My Lady Winwood's Maggot'. 
 Judy (from Judith, meaning praised)
================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 03:40:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? (Re: Are there any good old ones left?) -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
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> 
> since the first maggot dance ever published was "Betty's Magot," in 
> the 9th edition of the _Dancing Master_, 1695.   Actually, that may 
> be the first musical reference to "maggot," too.  I can't think of any
> 
> earlier.  Can anyone come up with an earlier use of the word "maggot" 
> in relation to music?  Dawn . . .?

Nope, sorry.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:13:07 +0200
From: Roswitha Betsche <r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Edinburgh
To: ECD mailing list <ECD-AT-
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--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)
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Hallo,

could anyone tell me where I can buy ECD - CDs in Edinburgh. I will be
there from 15 - 18 August. You can answer me privately:
r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de

Thanks in advance
Rosi


--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Hallo,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>could anyone tell me where I can buy ECD - CDs 
in Edinburgh. I will be there from 15 - 18 August. You can answer me privately: 
<A 
href="mailto:r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de">r.betsche-AT-
planet-interkom.de</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Rosi</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_/E2SZOaqxLN0kLU8PChVCA)--
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Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:28:21 PST
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 08:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:

> 
> And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major
university please
> look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle
English
> Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another
greater
> resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)


Glad to be of help.  Working at Yale apparently does have some
advantages.

Nothing for "maggote" or "maggot".

"Magot" elicited:
magot (n.) Also magat, maked.
[?Var. of maddok.]    A maggot; also, a bedbug.

maddok (n.) Also maddock & (early) mašek & (?errors) maddolk, mazek.
[?OE; cp. OE maša, OI maškr.] (a) An earthworm; (b) a bedbug; (c) a
maggot.



"Mathek got not response so I tried "mathe" as a possible variant
and got:
mathe (n.) Also (error) mache; pl. mathes, methes & mathen, matthen,
(early) meašen.  [OE maža]  (a) A maggot, grub, worm; (b)?as surname.

Checking up all the results there the only one that produced
anything was "mathen":

mathen (n.)   [Back formation from mathenhde.] A virgin.


A virgin?  We've got worms, bedbugs and virgins.  Somehow from all
of that, musical fancies or whims.


Barbara (from Latin for stranger or barbarian, which some people
think I am) Ruth (from the Hebrew Bible, Moabite widow who refused
to part from her Israelite mother-in-law Naomi, and thus became a
stranger in the land of Israel).


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 11:43:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
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Barbara, Rich, et al:

You might also enjoy looking up "maggot-pie" in the OED; apparently 1932
was not the first usage of that term, either.

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor


================================================================================
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 12:00:43 -0400
From: "Andersen, Carl E (CAP, CORP)" <Carl.Andersen-AT-
gecapital.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Falcon Ridge
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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Gene Murrow and Hudson Crossing will debut English Country Dance on the
Dance Stage at the Falcon Ridge Folk Festival, the "three-day community of
folk music & dance at the foot of the Berkshires" at Long Hill Farm on Route
23 in Hillsdale, NY.

Dancing Friday 2pm to 2am; Saturday 11am to midnight; and Sunday 11am to
7:30pm. Styles include Cajun, Zydeco, English Country, contra, squares,
family and gender-free, swing, and world beat. Gene & H.C. appear Sunday.

Check out the great aerial view of the Festival at www.FalconRidgeFolk.com
<http://www.FalconRidgeFolk.com> . Lots of other information there, too.
Concerts on the Main Stage begin at noon, Friday.

I've got a spare ticket - 3-day, no camping - I'd like to unload. It's $55.
Please e-mail me privately.

Carl
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:01:52 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:41:51 -0400
From: Torbin Zimmerman <torbin-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3784F0EF.4AA822B2-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

This thread has been a useful reminder that EC dancers of times past
spoke English, but not our English. They are not always saying to us
what we think on first reading.

Another, more familiar, example is Yankee Doodle who did not claim that
 feather in his hat was pasta.

(My Shorter OED says:

Macaroni...One of a class of 18th. century exquisites...a fop, a
dandy....)

Torbin Zimmerman


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:28:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David R. Woolf" <dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Atlanta's English Weekend
To: ECD list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9907081727490.25183-100000-AT-
jet.cc.emory.edu>
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	_____________________________________________________



             English Country Dance Atlanta
                                                          
               presents the Fifth Annual

       Maggots, Gypsies, and Other Divertissements

     a weekend of English Country (and contra) Dance

                      featuring . . .

     *********************************************

                      Earl Gaddis
                   Jacqueline Schwab
                     Daron Douglas
                          with
             Gene Murrow teaching and prompting

     **********************************************

               $42 for the weekend (in advance)

                September 10, 11 & 12, 1999
                      Atlanta, Georgia



                 You can find the brochure at:

       userwww.service.emory.edu/~dwoolf/weekend.html


         	 Or e-mail name and address to:

                      dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu

             or call the Atlanta Dance Hotline at

                        404/634-2585


         _____________________________________________



Hope to see you there.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Woolf <dwoolf-AT-
emory.edu> 	      	     Emory Eye Center
W - 404/778-4121                             Emory University
H - 404/355-2827                             Atlanta, GA  30322





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 14:49:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:49:24 -0400
From: "Gordon, Judy" <judy_gordon-AT-
standardandpoors.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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As part of the chain on the repertoire topic and whether the dances a group
does should be limited, in part, Alan Winston wrote:

>I hear -- and maybe someone who's directly involved should say more
about this -- that in the CD*NY teacher training program, there's a
repertoire of some  fifty dances that each teacher should be able to
teach, and I expect will have taught by the time they graduate.<

Actually, the "List of 50 Repertoire Dances" is a list of dances the English
dance teachers for Country Dance * New York thought the well-versed
experienced EC dancer should know well enough with to dance with little or
no prompting. (According to one of the teachers involved, it was assumed
that the teachers knew them all.) The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
would be great to have one.)

Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
50--I was not involved in teaching ECD at that time. And in some e-mail
discussions this year the question was raised, "Why 50?" One answer was that
it is a manageable number, and reasonable for both teachers and dancers. 

Interestingly, as I was completing my apprenticeship, no one checked to see
whether or not I could teach the dances on that list. I suppose if I
couldn't already, it was judged that I was capable of teaching them from the
notes.

The current teachers are in the midst of attempting to update the list to
reflect the growing popularity of some newer dances. The question then
becomes what to drop. We each were supposed to take the old list and come up
with drops and adds. That's where we still are. In the meantime, I have been
using the list from Gene Murrow's Chestnuts of 2297 class at Pinewoods
English Week 1997 as sort of a modern-day list, and adding others as I
encounter them, as I'm sure our other teachers are doing as well. The
dilemma, of course, is becoming so many great dances, not enough time to do
them. And fewer of us can do any repertoire dance off the top of our heads.

Those interested can find the CD*NY Repertoire List
(1992), on the group's Web site at  <http://www.cdny.org>. The cumulative
dance list of our ECD programs starting with our fall/winter 1998 season
also can be found there, thanks to the CD*NY Web Committee.

Yonina Gordon


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:21:26 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:51:19 -0230 (NDT)
From: Margaret Connors <mconnors-AT-
morgan.ucs.mun.ca>
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990708213710.26782A-100000-AT-
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Greetings to All!

A visit to the library turned up the following in addition to Barbara's
findings.  I have tried to retain the published spellings, so the p in
"pe" represents the letter thorn, the d in "madek" represents the letter
eth and the f in "fort", etc. represents a long s.

The "Promptorium Parvulorum sive Clericorum Dictionarius Anglo-Latinus
Princeps" (circa 1440) defines madek (with variations maye, make, magot,
magat, may and math) as a "wyrm yn pe fleshe" 

I also looked at the available facsimilies of early English dictionaries. 
The two dictionaries from the 1600's (those of Henry Cockeram, 1623 and
Elisha Coles, 1676) did not contain the word maggot or any variations on
the spelling. 

John Kersey in "A New English Dictionary" (1702) and "Dictionarium
Anglo-Britannicum" (1708) defined Magget or Maggot as "a fort of worm".

It was "A General Dictionary of the English Language" by Thomas Sheridan,
1780, which defined maggot as "a fmall grub which turns into a fly;
whimfy, caprice, odd fancy".

A partial citation for maggot from the OED:

2. a whimsical or perverse fancy; a crochet

1625 FLETCHER Women Pleased III iv Are not you mad my friend?...Have not
you Maggots in your braines?  c1645 HOWELL lett.(1688) II.328 There's a
strange Magot hath got into their Brain. 1678 DRYDEN Limberham v.i What
new maggot's this; you dare not sure be jealous! 1685 S. WESLEY (title)
Maggots; or Poems on several subjects 1693 SHADWELL Volunteers v. wks 1720
IV. 480  Blunt. Ha Fellow! What dost thou mean by a maggot? Hor. Sir a
little concern of mine in my way, a little whim or so Sir.

It would seem that this usage of maggot dates from the seventeenth
century.

Perhaps the word maggot became associated with dance tunes because of
their propensity to fix themselves in our brains!


Margaret,
who in her childhood was called by almost every diminutive and variation
of her name, but never Maggot.

On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Barbara Ruth wrote:

> 
> ---Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And, as long as I'm asking for help, could someone at a major
> university please
> > look up "magotte," "magot," "maggot" and "mathek" in the _Middle
> English
> > Dictionary_ at  <http://www.hti.umich.edu/dict/med/>?  (Another
> greater
> > resource that has been restricted to university subscribers.)
> 
> 
> Glad to be of help.  Working at Yale apparently does have some
> advantages.
> 
> Nothing for "maggote" or "maggot".
> 
> "Magot" elicited:
> magot (n.) Also magat, maked.
> [?Var. of maddok.]    A maggot; also, a bedbug.
> 
> maddok (n.) Also maddock & (early) mašek & (?errors) maddolk, mazek.
> [?OE; cp. OE maša, OI maškr.] (a) An earthworm; (b) a bedbug; (c) a
> maggot.
> 
> 
> 
> "Mathek got not response so I tried "mathe" as a possible variant
> and got:
> mathe (n.) Also (error) mache; pl. mathes, methes & mathen, matthen,
> (early) meašen.  [OE maža]  (a) A maggot, grub, worm; (b)?as surname.
> 
> Checking up all the results there the only one that produced
> anything was "mathen":
> 
> mathen (n.)   [Back formation from mathenhde.] A virgin.
> 
> 
> A virgin?  We've got worms, bedbugs and virgins.  Somehow from all
> of that, musical fancies or whims.
> 
> 
> Barbara (from Latin for stranger or barbarian, which some people
> think I am) Ruth (from the Hebrew Bible, Moabite widow who refused
> to part from her Israelite mother-in-law Naomi, and thus became a
> stranger in the land of Israel).
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:51:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:51:24 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
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[206.72.203.145]>
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At 5:49 PM -0400 7/8/99, Yonina wrote:
> The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
>teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
>that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
>by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
>would be great to have one.)
>
>Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
>according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
>choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
>lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
>50

This is very interesting to me.  Recently a list of the "Top 100 
quilts of the century" was developed in just this way.  A handful of 
top bigwigs from a couple of top magazines hand picked a group of 
knowledgeable and varied quilters. Each of said quilters was asked to 
write a list of 100 top quilts of the last century.  The list is 
presented as a whole list of 100, but always with short preamble 
lists - this (short) list of quilts were chosen unanimously, this 
(slightly longer) list appeared on a certain number of the total 
lists etc.

It seems a reasonable way to develop a list when the decision making 
is more than anything else subjective and variable.

The caveat I think to doing this sort of project be a "cone of 
silence" approach until the results were in and tallied.  Then 
discussion/debate/final presentation form etc could ensue.

If there is interest in such a thing, I would be willing to receive 
and tally the voting and prepare the list for discussion - I could 
even stick it up on a web site for perusal if you like.

Are you interested?  Do you want to choose 50 dances? Let me know 
(discussion here would be great) - but PLEASE don't send me your list 
yet.  If there's interest, I'd like to think about the best way to do 
this (setting up a web page form springs to mind, for instance)

Mary Beth Goodman <-- years of experience as bean counter

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 17:51:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:51:24 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "'ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu'" <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <v04205500b3aaf42087b5-AT-
[206.72.203.145]>
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At 5:49 PM -0400 7/8/99, Yonina wrote:
> The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
>teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
>that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
>by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
>would be great to have one.)
>
>Someone compared the lists, and the resulting 50 dances are grouped
>according to the number of lists they appeared on. Some were unanimous
>choices included on all eight lists, and so on, down to inclusion on five
>lists. Some negotiation may have been involved to reach the round number of
>50

This is very interesting to me.  Recently a list of the "Top 100 
quilts of the century" was developed in just this way.  A handful of 
top bigwigs from a couple of top magazines hand picked a group of 
knowledgeable and varied quilters. Each of said quilters was asked to 
write a list of 100 top quilts of the last century.  The list is 
presented as a whole list of 100, but always with short preamble 
lists - this (short) list of quilts were chosen unanimously, this 
(slightly longer) list appeared on a certain number of the total 
lists etc.

It seems a reasonable way to develop a list when the decision making 
is more than anything else subjective and variable.

The caveat I think to doing this sort of project be a "cone of 
silence" approach until the results were in and tallied.  Then 
discussion/debate/final presentation form etc could ensue.

If there is interest in such a thing, I would be willing to receive 
and tally the voting and prepare the list for discussion - I could 
even stick it up on a web site for perusal if you like.

Are you interested?  Do you want to choose 50 dances? Let me know 
(discussion here would be great) - but PLEASE don't send me your list 
yet.  If there's interest, I'd like to think about the best way to do 
this (setting up a web page form springs to mind, for instance)

Mary Beth Goodman <-- years of experience as bean counter

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:56:33 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 18:54:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990708185142.18968A-100000-AT-
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On Thu, 8 Jul 1999, Torbin Zimmerman wrote:

> Another, more familiar, example is Yankee Doodle who did not claim that
>  feather in his hat was pasta.
> 
> (My Shorter OED says:
> 
> Macaroni...One of a class of 18th. century exquisites...a fop, a
> dandy....)

Or did he? Macaroni was pretty exotic stuff to the 18th century British, 
not to mention the colonists, and a plain-speaking person would consider 
eating such foreign stuff to be the height of fashionable foppishness -- 
or at least, that's how the derivation of that usage for the word 
"macaroni" was explained to me, years ago. Sorta like sushi, 15 years ago.

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:32:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:34:42 +0000
From: Rich Galloway <rich-AT-
kreative.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology/floating in cyberspace
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907090231.WAA24687-AT-
ns.kreative.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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I foolishly wrote:

> (I'm not sure what the "whoa, whoa" is about or who was guessing.  Maybe I
> missed a message or 2.)

Turns out I missed about 7 messages.  They all came zipping in this 
evening.  I hope they had fun floating out there in cyberspace.  Now 
Robin's message makes perfect sense to me.  Sorry I questioned you, 
Robin.  

Rich (person with foot in mouth) 
Galloway (derived from [Pict?] word for southwest Scotland)



====================================================
Rich Galloway         Silver Spring, MD
====================================================
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:05:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 01:04:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Message-ID: <24ed2977.24b6dcf7-AT-
aol.com>
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 >   Is anyone else out there in ECD List Land going to Buffalo
 >Gap next week? I'd like to meet some of the folks whose words
 >I've been reading on this list so say hi when/if we meet there.

I'll be there.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:50:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 01:49:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Dances and the weather
To: EngDance list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990709014159.20786E-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
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Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
callers out there think about this.

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:07:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:09:35 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3786029F.87227E53-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

For Rich Galloway and others with etymological maggots:
	The OED is in many personal libraries, since the Book-of-the-Month Club
once offered the fine print edition as an inducement for membership.  I
got mine for the princely sum of $18 in that way.  Maggot and derived
formations constitute a rather lengthy segment of text, too long for
quotation here.  It includes a list of nine citations by name in The
Dancing Master, 16th ed. (1716) and refers nonspecifically to "ten
similar titles" in the DM II (1719).  The primary etymological
reference, problematic, is to the Middle English "MADDOCK" and states
drily that the exact formation is not easy to determine.  It certainly
doesn't conform to usual ideas about the evolution of consonants.  A
paragraph of ensuing discussion states, "possibly the form MAK ... may
have suggested a jocular application of the female nickname MAGGOT for
Margaret ..."  That last seems a long stretch to me.  The confluence, if
any, would be simpler if more direct.
	Anyway, my maggoty approach should help Barbara Ruth dispel thoughts of
flies when she meets the word, Maggot, in the ECD context.
Ciao,
Al
	
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:08:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:10:02 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Maggot Pi
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <378602BA.5F2E9195-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990708213710.26782A-100000-AT-
plato.ucs.mun.ca>

Margaret Connors wrote(in part):
> 
> Margaret,
> who in her childhood was called by almost every diminutive and variation
> of her name, but never Maggot.
> 

Not even Maggie?

OED offers earlier citations than the ones you mention.  The first clear
reference in our context (not "Maggots in your braines", which may have
a double meaning) is 1685 S. Wesley (title) Maggots: or Poems on several
subjects. This is followed by one defining defining a maggot as a
whimsy.  Earlier citations would have to be quoted more extensively to
confirm this sense of maggot.
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:34:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 10:33:28 -0400
From: Sharon A McKinley <smckinley-AT-
loc.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <s785d010.033-AT-
loc.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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al:
  re OED:
  i could swear i paid $25 for mine!
  sharon

>>> Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com> 07/09 10:09 am >>>
For Rich Galloway and others with etymological maggots:
	The OED is in many personal libraries, since the
Book-of-the-Month Club
once offered the fine print edition as an inducement for membership. 
I
got mine for the princely sum of $18 in that way.  Maggot and derived
formations constitute a rather lengthy segment of text, too long for
quotation here.  It includes a list of nine citations by name in The
Dancing Master, 16th ed. (1716) and refers nonspecifically to "ten
similar titles" in the DM II (1719).  The primary etymological
reference, problematic, is to the Middle English "MADDOCK" and states
drily that the exact formation is not easy to determine.  It certainly
doesn't conform to usual ideas about the evolution of consonants.  A
paragraph of ensuing discussion states, "possibly the form MAK ... may
have suggested a jocular application of the female nickname MAGGOT for
Margaret ..."  That last seems a long stretch to me.  The confluence,
if
any, would be simpler if more direct.
	Anyway, my maggoty approach should help Barbara Ruth dispel
thoughts of
flies when she meets the word, Maggot, in the ECD context.
Ciao,
Al
	
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:39:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:38:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709143900.43325.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
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Dawn Culbertson wrote:

<<Should the weather be a factor in determining what dances get done (for 
example, scheduling more lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted 
but not paid attention to, or should it be ignored altogether? >>

Definietly so! When I used to do the booking for English in New York, I 
would always hire a certain teacher in the wintertime, since she tended to 
program lively evenings, full of rants, skips, gallops, etc. It seemed to be 
the only sensible thing to do, otherwise we'd have to set up "heat 
exhaustion" clinic in the kitchen.

Margherita Davis


_______________________________________________________________
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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 07:52:12 PST
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:03:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christine Robb <cedar-AT-
interlog.com>
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: EngDance list <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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On Fri, 9 Jul 1999, Dawn Culbertson wrote:

> or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
> determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
> lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
> to, or should it be ignored altogether?

Speaking as one who does not have air-conditioning in the hall, although
the fans help some, weather definitely plays a role in what I choose to
teach.  When outside and it's cold, I choose fast-moving dances, as equal
as possible.  When indoors and it's hot, I choose easy, short dances, and
try to pick slower ones.  Easy and short become important since many
people's brains melt in the heat.  Patience and tempers can also flare
more quickly in high temps, and easy dances can help avoid frustration
with fellow dancers. 


Christine

English Country dancing in and around Toronto:
http://www.interlog.com/~cedar

================================================================================
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 13:46:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: CF1125-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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In a message dated 7/9/99 5:51:41 AM, Dawn Culbertson wrote:

<<Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
callers out there think about this.>>

I think one must avoid causing heat exhaustion on hot nights, but I would 
suggest that it is easy to go overboard in the direction of non-lively 
dances. I tend to feel bothered by the heat more during slow dances which are 
chosen specifically to avoid vigorous motion. You create a little breeze when 
you move faster. I would prefer to keep the dances short, the intervals 
between dances longer, and intersperse gentler dances in the program, rather 
than avoid vigorous dances entirely on hot nights. We do contra dancing here 
in Baltimore all summer, and Lovely Lane's hall can get quite hot and humid. 
It's still lots of fun in the summer, and we just expect to sweat. We just 
change shirts a lot. For me, the same thing applies to ECD: I'd prefer to 
have a lively dance and sweat, than do an evening of dance-free dances. 

Carl Friedman
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:17:45 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:09:39 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Buffalo Gap
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709.142415.6470.1.franch-AT-
juno.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
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I had previously replied privately to the first couple of Buffalo Gap
messages, but since they're multiplying, and I've enjoyed knowing who
else was coming, I'll say publicly "Me! Me!" or rather "Us! Us!"  I'll be
there for the dancing, and Eileen will be there for the ECD musicians
workshop.

Mike Franch

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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 11:17:47 PST
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 14:17:16 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990709.142415.6470.2.franch-AT-
juno.com>
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gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>

Dawn asked callers about their views about appropriate programming for
warm weather dancing.  I'm not a caller, but as a dancer, I know that I
certainly appreciate it when the weather is taken into consideration.  It
seems to me that Dawn's query contained the answer, if dancers were noted
sitting out or leaving early.

___________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:06:07 -0800
From: Carol McCabe <cmccabe-AT-
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Reply-To: ECD-AT-
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Subject: [Fwd: Country Dance]
To: english dance <ECD-AT-
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have others seen this site?

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Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:16:31 -0800
From: Sheri Hazeltine <sherih-AT-
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>X-From_: peanutjake-AT-
netzero.net  Sun Jun 27 16:37:52 1999
>From: "peanutjake" <peanutjake-AT-
netzero.net>
>To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
>Subject: Country Dance
>Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 20:30:00 -0400
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211
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>
>Hi:
>       I found your email address on a list of those interested in English
>Country Dancing. I have just added an English Country Dance section to my
>web site. So far there is the music for 36 of the Playford Country Dances.
>All the music is full length and arranged with the dancer in mind. There are
>also sections for Contra Dance Music, Square Dance Music and Folk Dance
>Music,
> The address is
>http://netopia.geocities.com/peanutjake
>
>To get to the Country Dance Section+ADs-
>Goto the OUT BASKET
>scroll down to Country Dance Music
>Then click on BROWSE
>
>If you like the music there are some things you can do to HELP the project.
>
>1. You can forward this message to everyone you know who likes English
>Country Dancing.
>2. You can click on the Recommend-it button on the site.
>3. If you have a website, you can add a link to my site.
>4. If you have a newsletter or magazine, you can include a notice about the
>site.
>5.If you are a dancer who knows the music, or a musician who knows the
>dances, you can check the tunes to verify that I did not make any mistakes
>when I arranged the music. Do I have the correct tempo, correct repeats,
>correct length, etc. etc?
>
>
>Peanutjake
>
>
>
>+ACE-
>
>
>
>
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Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:52:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:46:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Pearl <pearl-AT-
sw.stratus.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199907091346.JAA02159-AT-
alta.sw.stratus.com>
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Of course one should be mindful of the weather in direct proportion to how
much the ambient temperature differs from "normal room temperature".
If it is chilly, keep the dancers moving.  If it is hot, do the slow
dances, and take more breaks.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 17:55:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 20:54:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: judy_gordon-AT-
standardandpoors.com
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Yonina wrote:

 >Rumor has it that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been
 >compiled in the mid-'70s by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure
 >anyone still has a copy of this. It would be great to have one.

Perhaps you'll find it on your own bookshelf, under the title, "A
Playford Ball" by Genny Shimer and Kitty Keller.

Off to Buffalo Gap, then Pinewoods (Early Music Week).

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 19:05:58 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 08:26:54 +1000
From: Nancy Hoffmann <Nancy.Hoffmann-AT-
aceinfo.net.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <l03110701b3ac25408347-AT-
[203.100.15.209]>
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References: <01JDAD59H4PE9UM6HD-AT-
amherst.edu> <3783DD06.2ECE40EB-AT-
kreative.net>

My Australian Edition of the huge Collins English Dictionary (1791 pp, 2
1/2 inches thick) gives:

maggot (n):1. the soft limbless larvae of dipterous insects, esp in the
housefly and blowfly..
2. Rare - a fancy or whim. (C14; from earlier mathek, related to Old Norse
mathkr worm, Old English  matha, Old High German mado, grub).

Also:
maggoty (adj) besides its more usual meaning, is slang for very drunk, and
Australian slang for annoyed or angry.

(Hmmm - didn't know that!)

Nancy Hoffmann
Brisbane, Australia


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 20:14:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 22:59:22 +1000
From: Brett Harrison <routier-AT-
tig.com.au>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: CD*NY repertoire (was: Are there any good...)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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tig.com.au>
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NTNYCMSX01>

Greetings for the first time

I've been lurking and learning on this list for some time. Call me a re-enactor
who loves to dance rather than a dancer who enjoys historical dance. The group
I'm in focuses on the mid-l7th century (English Civil Wars) and has recently
expanded its activities to include some dancing, including Playford 1651 edition
dances. We're based in Sydney, Australia.

Looking at the CD*NY repertoire I saw that there are few first edition dances
(not an issue, or course).I assume that the dance "Hey, boys up go we" is
"Cuckolds all a row" by a more polite name?

If this is the case I would love to get some more instruction on how to do it.
None of the contacts I have include this dance in their repertoire and I'm
particularly confused about how the third section is danced:

-Men put the Co. We. back by both hands, fall even on the
-Co. side men cast off to the right hand, your We. following,
-come to the same place again · put them back again, fall on
-your owne side, men cast off to the left hand, and come to
-your places, the We. following : 

How does the 'cast off' work, exactly?

Also, in the first section it says:

-Turne back to back to the Co. We. faces againe, goe about
-the Co. We. not turning your faces ·

I've seen instructions which call for "Contraries gipsy R; then L. " (Palmers
Pocket Playford) but this doesn't seem to be what the original edition says.
Totally innocently I read it as a "do si do" followed by a gypsy the other way.
Help anyone?

Regards + +
Sue Drain

"Gordon, Judy" wrote:

> Actually, the "List of 50 Repertoire Dances" is a list of dances the English
> dance teachers for Country Dance * New York thought the well-versed
> experienced EC dancer should know well enough with to dance with little or
> no prompting. (According to one of the teachers involved, it was assumed
> that the teachers knew them all.) The list was compiled in 1992 by the eight
> teachers at the time, each of whom came up with a list of 50. (Rumor has it
> that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been compiled in the mid-'70s
> by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure anyone still has a copy of this. It
> would be great to have one.)

> 
<snip>

> Those interested can find the CD*NY Repertoire List
> (1992), on the group's Web site at  <http://www.cdny.org>. The cumulative
> dance list of our ECD programs starting with our fall/winter 1998 season
> also can be found there, thanks to the CD*NY Web Committee.
> 
> Yonina Gordon


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:26:24 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 00:26:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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Dave wrote:

>Yonina wrote:

> >Rumor has it that there was an earlier list of 50 that had been
> >compiled in the mid-'70s by Genny Shimer, however, I am not sure
> >anyone still has a copy of this. It would be great to have one.

>Perhaps you'll find it on your own bookshelf, under the title, "A
>Playford Ball" by Genny Shimer and Kitty Keller.

Which has 102 dances and tunes, and is therefore unlikely to be a list of 
50.  (And has no compositions since 1802 or thereabouts, for that matter.)

>Off to Buffalo Gap, then Pinewoods (Early Music Week).

Off to Mendocino in 8 hours.  I hope we all have fun.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 05:10:40 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:16:48 +1000
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Dances and the weather
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <199907111204.WAA18756-AT-
vasquez.zip.com.au>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu> wrote:

> Recently, a friend told me about a dance he attended on an unseasonably
> hot night where the program consisted mostly of dances that involved a lot
> of ranting, skipping, etc. As a result, many dancers either left early or
> only did a few dances throughout the evening. This got me to thinking
> about something I've never even thought about in my capacity as a caller:
> when planning a dance, how mindful should one be of the climate? (This is
> assuming we're not lucky enough to always have access to air-conditioned
> or climate-controlled halls.) Should the weather be a factor in
> determining what dances get done (for example, scheduling more
> lively dances on a cold night), should it be noted but not paid attention
> to, or should it be ignored altogether? I'd be curious to know what other
> callers out there think about this.

I've altered a programme according to the weather. I did a dance 
one spring evening which turned out to be distinctly warmer than 
usual and cut down considerably on the energy level. What 
particularly pleased me was that one of the dancers came up and 
commented at the end what a nice relaxed evening it had been.

I've also done the opposite in November when there had been a mix 
up over the heating in the hall so it was very cold. Rather than the 
normal English style of doing two dances then having a break we 
just did dance after dance after dance to keep people warm.

I think that a good caller should be prepared to alter their 
programme at a moments notice, and also have sufficient repertoire 
to be able to adapt to different conditions.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:32:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:35:04 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: folk etymology -Reply
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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sprintmail.com>
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References: <s785d010.033-AT-
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Sharon A McKinley wrote:
> 
> al:
>   re OED:
>   i could swear i paid $25 for mine!
>   sharon
> 
Hi!
	I got in there years ahead of you.
-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:32:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 13:35:25 -0400
From: Albert Blank <fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: CD*NY repertoire (was: Are there any good...)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3788D5DD.F653A883-AT-
sprintmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <9CD16AB17310D311BCA40008C71B768056702A-AT-
NTNYCMSX01> <3785F22A.A4ADFAD-AT-
tig.com.au>

Brett Harrison wrote (in part):

> I assume that the dance "Hey, boys up go we" is
> "Cuckolds all a row" by a more polite name?

It is.  Sharp borrowed the present name from a dance now called "The Way
to Norwich." To the ribald 20th century mind, he lost his way on that
one.
> If this is the case I would love to get some more instruction on how to do it.
> None of the contacts I have include this dance in their repertoire and I'm
> particularly confused about how the third section is danced:
> 

	There are clear descriptions in Sharp's Country Dance Book and in
Keller/Shimer, The Playford Ball.  If these are not available to you,
please e-mail me directly and I'll send an annotated description of the
dance in reply without cluttering up this site.

	This sent to the entire list for the sake of the following comment:
	Playford has the man putting the contrary woman back in both the
poussette movements, but Keller/Shimer has them continuing the
poussette.  This has been interpreted as having the woman put the man
back the second time.  Kitty Keller confirmed my feeling that this is
not the correct interpretation.  Before the Keller/Shimer book appeared,
it was always danced the Playford/Sharp way in the States.

-- 
Albert Blank
e-mail: fandango-AT-
sprintmail.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 06:06:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:12:15 +1000
From: Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Are there any good old ones left?
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
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vasquez.zip.com.au>
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"Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com> wrote:

> But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were to publish
> a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years or so.  Now that
> would let us see how trends bring new material in and discard old, and what
> the true chestnuts are!

I might have mentioned this before, but there is a dance community 
in the UK ( around Stockton and Darlington) who run a "top twenty" 
dance each year. Each club in the area votes for their favourite 
dances and the 20 that receive the most votes get done.

I know the band who normally play for this dance and they reckon 
that about 10 of the dances are the same from year to year (these 
tend to be the old favourites - Newcastle, Levi Jackson), another 5 
come from a fairly small pool so come round every two or three 
years and the remaining 5 are that year's hits.

I love the idea of the dance, and it makes for an interesting piece of 
history as well.

Bob


----------------------------------------------------------
-- Bob Archer      bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk
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Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:07:36 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 10:10:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
VALLEY.NET (David Millstone)
Subject: Repertoire
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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Following up on the discussion about the CD*NY list of 50 repertoire dances...

The Strafford (Vermont) Ball started in 1995 as a way of building a community
of English country dancers in our area. There were a small number of eager
English dancers, but not enough to support a regular dance. Thus, instead of
the Ball emerging from a regular program, we went the other route--use the
festive occasion of a ball to spark interest in English country dancing, with
the goal of building up the number of local dancers so that we could eventually
support a regular local dance. That has, in fact, happened.

The Ball committee--that sounds so formal, doesn't it?--initially came up with
guidelines for the Ball program that we have followed since then. 

We wanted our Ball to place its emphasis on dances which we felt were part of
"standard repertoire." The idea was that new dancers would be learning dances
that they might reasonably expect to encounter elsewhere. With new dancers as a
target audience, even the standards would be fresh. We also liked the idea that
dancers coming from away to join us at the Ball could look over the program and
sigh with relief: "Oh, I know most of these." (We'd all experienced that
sinking feeling that comes from looking over the program of a distant
ball--where we wouldn't be able to attend preparation classes--and being
unfamiliar with many of the dances listed there.)

The 1999 program isn't quite completed yet, but you can find our cumulative
list for the first four balls at:  

http://caligari.dartmouth.edu/~cgl/ball/alldances.html

David Millstone
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Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:14:12 PST
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Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 07:14:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lyrl Ahern <lyrl-AT-
yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Favorite-dance lists
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
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web120.yahoomail.com>
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--- Bob Archer <bob-AT-
hottub.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > But the most fun, I think, would be if each dance community were
> > to publish a "15 favorite dances of the year ____", for 25 years 
> > or so. Now that would let us see how trends bring new material in
> > and discard old, and what the true chestnuts are! (Emily
Ferguson)
> 
> I might have mentioned this before, but there is a dance community 
> in the UK ( around Stockton and Darlington) who run a "top twenty" 
> dance each year. Each club in the area votes for their favourite 
> dances and the 20 that receive the most votes get done.

Don't forget the CDS Boston Centre's "Fall Favorites" dance. Those
who buy their tickets ahead get to vote for five favorite dances.
Those with the highest votes comprise the program.
    There's a little help on the back of the flyer: a list of all the
dances done in the Centre during the past year--but one is not
limited to that list.

Lyrl