Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 06:56:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance-music connection (was Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Susan R. Lorand wrote: (Hi Susie -- see you this weekend?) > question for callers: do you try to work with musicians other than earl to > make this happen? [playing the appropriate musical phrase along with the teaching walk-through, that is] Yes -- David West and Donna Baird, who have been steadily providing music for ECD in the Ann Arbor area for many years, will often help in this manner -- generally just one of them (usually David). On some of the better-known dances it works so smoothly that we just slip into the dance and keep going. Another band which formed here a year or so ago, A Perfect Match, also had a couple of dancer-musicians who picked up this pretty well. Even so, there are times when it is very hard to coordinate; if the dancers are not all moving together (and for the newer ones, the ones who need this the most, the figures may be completely unfamiliar so they aren't quite certain yet what they are supposed to do), it is impossible to have them all moving to the music in the intended manner the first time. At these times, my own attention is occupied quite fully by the dancers, so I have little attention to give the musicians to help them coordinate with the dancers; they are pretty much on their own. Sometimes I'll repeat a figure when this is too frazzled the first time, just to get the feel of the way the dance and the music go together a bit better. . . . > the germantown country dancers have developed a list of 20 or so > "repertoire dancers" from which a caller can substitute on the fly; local > musicians are expected to be able to play all of them, whether they were > on the program or not. do other groups have similar systems? Yes, we developed a list from which we wanted to be able to pick a dance with essentially no forewarning, which we gave to the new band; David & Donna have a huge repertoire, which helps us enormously, but they still like to know the probable selections in advance, and they brush up on them. Then we may review tempi briefly before the dance starts, on tunes with dances that they are not familiar with (they _love_ "Goff Hall" at a tempo about 2/3 or 3/4 of what Philippe's dance "The Astonished Archeologist" needs . . .). Eric Arnold Ann Arbor trying to get my eyes off the dancers to give more clues to the musicians... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:03:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:03:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 31 May 1999, Sue Wartell wrote (in part): > Learning to dance to the phrase of the music is wonderful - but if I > don't know that for a particular new dance there are 4 beats for the > cast, rather than 8, I won't phrase the figure correctly - I'll get > there late. It helps if the caller lets the dancers know that a cast will take take as much music as the rest of the phrase. One of the most important teaching tools the caller has is to teach the dance one phrase at a time. How many of you have been taught Trip to Kilburn as "First couple cast to second place, circle with the third couple, lead down through the three's and cast up to second place?" That cast belongs in the second phrase. (If I hadn't heard it called this way by more than three callers, I wouldn't bring up the subject. . .) > Many beginners I've known are so intent on figuring out where their > bodies need to be and remembering the sequence of moves (many with > strange or confusing names - turn by the right and turn over your right > shoulder have some key words in common, but are very different in terms > of what you do! and after a couple turns, which way is up?) that > demanding that they need to remember the melody at the same time seems a > bit much. When you use the terms 'right shoulder' and 'turn to the left,' you are teaching them to think of themselves -- alone in this mass of bodies. When you use the terms 'up,' 'down,' 'woman's side,''hey across the set,' you are teaching them that they are part of a set, a group of social dancers interacting together. Let's take 'cast to second place" as an example: You can tell the man to push back his left shoulder and the woman to push back her right shoulder -- and possibly, you may need to -- but you can teach casting down by saying that to cast down, you start by turning up toward the top of the set. Not as fast, but they won't have to relearn their orientation and they will be learning to think of dancing in terms of the entire set. > After all, you really can't get "there" on time unless you > have a notion about where "there" is supposed to be, and how you are > meant to get there. When you are teaching a group of beginners, do you start by defining those imaginary lines that define where a dancer should be at the end of a phrase? Do you explain the movements by drawing an analogy to singing in a chorus? In other words do you explain "there?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:08:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:08:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: COUNTING To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 31 May 1999, sol weber wrote: > I remember the difficulty I had, years ago, when first learning > Tallis' Canon, especially when it was being badly taught. I > finally got it when I began to count the 16 beats in each of the > 4 parts. I occasionally mention this to someone who is new > to the dance, and it often helps. A great crutch when starting > out. I agree, counting has its place in learning a dance, especially if it's John Tallis' Canon or Mr. Bev. or Up with Aily. . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:11:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:03:38 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance-music connection (was Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 12:15 AM -0400 6/1/99, Susan R. Lorand wrote: >On Sun, 30 May 1999, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > >> ...it seems very desirable to me to hook the movements to their >> sections of the melody, and the best way I can think of to do that is to >> present the movement i.e. have them walk it through, then present it with >> it's melody section i.e. have them dance it. >> >> That's what doodling can facilitate, unless you have Earl around, in which >> case he'll pick up on the teaching/leading and accompany the walk-through >> with the appropriate section of the melody. > >question for callers: do you try to work with musicians other than earl to >make this happen? I do, at the dancers I've called outside of Boston. It still seems to me to be one of the best ways to tie the melody to the figure for the dancers, so I try always to convey the melody or some semblance of it when presenting, unless the crowd is all knowledgable and skilled. > >when it's a dance i already know, i can play along with a walk-through if >it's clear that a caller would like me to. (they don't often ask.) if i >don't know the dance, it helps if the caller knows the structure of the >tune well enough to ask for, say, bars 5-8 of the 2nd B. For English dance I'd think every caller would require themselves to know that. >even more >helpful for a dance i don't know is a copy of the tune on the same page >with the dance instructions (whether or not the tune is found in barnes). >then i don't have to wait for the dancers to learn it to understand how >the music fits the dance. (and when i play the wrong number of A parts or >B parts, i can correct myself by noticing that the down the hall four in >line, say, should have started on the first B...) Wow! You split your attention well and both the callers and dancers must appreciate that a lot! I think that's a higher level of playing and most can muster, at least for the first few years. It's a lot to deal with all the keys, and unusual numbers of bars in phrases and modulations! > >last summer in laurie andres's ecd music workshop at buffalo gap, we had >enough musicians to have some play while others danced. it really helps >musicians to be able to do this. Yup. I can think of many examples of musicians who could care less about the dancing. > >and while i have the floor - it's probably been said here before, but >bears repeating. callers can increase the chances that the music will be >as good as possible by getting a program to the band well in advance. >has anyone ever tried including with the program some tempo indications >for the unfamiliar tunes? an approximate metronome marking can be very >helpful. These things are too fixed for the kinds of dances I call. My list of basic repertoire, which my local musicians need to be able to play at my convenience, is 75 dances long. This gives me to flexibility to respond to any mess on the floor. One night three couples came. One person came to humor her husband, but did not really like to dance. One woman came who had never danced ECD before and only a little contra dancing. We started with Black Nag and ended with Bare Necessities. > >the germantown country dancers have developed a list of 20 or so >"repertoire dancers" from which a caller can substitute on the fly; local >musicians are expected to be able to play all of them, whether they were >on the program or not. do other groups have similar systems? > >susie lorand >princeton, nj, usa >trying to get my eyes off the music and watch the dancers... One of my local musicians is extremely music dependent. Does not memorize readily. I'm the opposite - struggle to read the music but can harmonize and sing the melody right off after I've heard it once. Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new topic for discussion here. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 07:11:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:10:42 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >This discussion about counting has been fascinating. It got me >thinking about what I do myself. I don't count. Ever. Even in Trip to >Kilburn. There's a note in the tune that says, "Time to circle." When >a leader starts talking about counting, I tune out. > I have always heard musical phrases, right from the beginning. >What I am wondering about is, how much is learning style affected by >early training? Is my so instinctively hearing the phrases due to the >fact that I learned to read music a few months after I learned to >read words? > >Lyrl Ahern >_________________________________________________________ I think it has a lot more to do with learning to hear, sorting out what you hear. Reading notes cannot help you phrase when you're playing, reading words cannot help you develop correction pronounciation. You can say a word incorrectly all your life and it won't change how it looks on the page! "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!" Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:00:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:17:22 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Counting To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003401beac3f$9244eba0$f498ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sue Wartell wrote: >During one of the circles, I mentioned (repeating the caller's words from earlier in the evening) that many of the figures were 8 steps long and fit to the music. He was delighted, and counted during down and back under his breath a couple times, just to check it out - and he finished out that dance quite smoothly.... While not disagreeing in the least with anything that Sue said (I use counting as a tool in teaching ECD), I've seen another side to this. It happened at a contra dance. A couple was going down the center, happily counting out their steps. Unfortunately, they hadn't moved off the set line until about beat 3, and that was the moment at which they began counting out their 8 beats. You can imagine their surprise when the couple ahead of them turned around to dance back up the set while they, the beginners, were counting out beat 5. I doubt that they'll trust that method again, at least not until they learn that they don't have just any 8 beats to do a figure, but the 8 beats that correspond to the musical phrase. >One thing that has puzzled me in this thread is the concern that counting leads people to be somewhere early. When I resort to counting, it is generally to _counter_ a tendency to arrive ahead of the music. Perhaps it's because I learned Scottish first, but knowing I have 8 counts to get somewhere, I automatically adjust so that I'm half-way there in 4, and if I've messed up and am more than half-way, I can slow up and arrive on time. My husband and I are also Scottish dancers. I've noticed that when several Scottish dancers are present in a small English group, the sets get wider and the dancing becomes more expansive as dancers begin fully to dance out the musical phrase. Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:58:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:58:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance-music connection (was Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906011658.LAA05285-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susan R. Lorand writes: > > the germantown country dancers have developed a list of 20 or so > "repertoire dancers" from which a caller can substitute on the fly; local > musicians are expected to be able to play all of them, whether they were > on the program or not. do other groups have similar systems? > The Central Illinois ECD have just recently established a basic repetoire list of (mostly) easy dances. This was due to the variability of attendance at our dances. It seems to happen quite often that we are unable to do most of the dances we have planned because a bunch of new dancers will show up and the ratio of experienced to inexperienced will be too low to try the more challenging dances we had planned. Thus we decided we needed a list of basic dances we could fall back on at a moment's notice. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:27:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:25:52 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Trip to Kilburn, and counting To: English Dance Message-ID: <00e001beac5c$6038daa0$0598ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emily Ferguson wrote: >To begin with - one could look about the room and see an intense concentration during the whole A music and people mouthing the 1-2-3-FOUR to themselves... >But it had another side effect. People felt rushed by the pressure to get into the circle in the middle of the phrase (on the count of four), and thus scurried through the circle arriving at the end of it too early. The effect of this was that the lead down which followed occurred too soon and so people were casting up by the end of the A music and had to wait to begin the next curcle I'm wondering, Emily, if you made a mistake in representing the counting in this message. The circles in Trip to Kilburn begin on beat FIVE (the beginning of measure 3), rather than on beat four. Casting dancers need only to arrive at the set line by beat four. If the dancers really were trying to start the circles on beat four, then they would indeed have been rushing the figure, a situation that likely provided an impetus for rushing the next sequence of figures. Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:27:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:21:10 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance-music connection (was Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <00df01beac5c$5f53aac0$0598ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susie Lorand wrote: >question for callers: do you try to work with musicians other than earl to make this happen? Most definitely. As both caller and dancer, I find musical accompaniment an indispensable aid in the teaching or the learning of a dance. The more inconspicuous the act of providing instruction to the musician, the more pleasurable the teaching or the learning. By that I mean, the less often the caller has to tell the musician what measures to play, and the less often the dancers have to hear the caller giving this instruction, the happier everyone is: caller, dancers, musicians. If I'm working with Liz Donaldson or Howard Markham, I'm in Seventh Heaven because they always know exactly where we are in the teaching. Otherwise I discuss this with musicians before the dance evening begins. Then I try to incorporate occasional reference points in my teaching so the musicians can keep up with where the dancers are, saying something like "now in the second A, the first four measures....". Sometimes I'll say that we're going to walk through the next 8 measures two at a time, so the musician plays accordingly. If a teaching point or other digression interrupts the flow, or if the musician simply looses track of where we are, I do what you described: ask for measures 1-4 of the A, or measures 5-8 of the B, and so on. Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:10:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:05:48 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: rapturous hush To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906011509_MC2-77B5-7B78-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - my experience is that particularly beginning/inexperienced dancers don't always listen to the initial instructions sufficiently as to be able to act upon them. And 'listening' is not synonymous with 'hearing and understanding' either. At first I wait for the chattering to subside. Then I ask whether anyone has a question before we start dancing ("Your neighbor, who may need the answer as well, may be too shy to ask..."). For that I usually have everyone's attention. Then I prompt the dance again, including the answer to those questions (if appropriate) and send everyone into the experience of the dance. It works well for me, and folks appreciate it. _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:10:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:05:58 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Standard repertoire To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906011509_MC2-77B5-7B7A-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am used to the concept of 'house dances' at the local venue which hosts SCD social dances. Perhaps those of you who are assuming a 20 - 30 dance repertoire from your musicians are willing to let the rest of us know which tunes (dances) qualify? Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:11:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:10:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: WHEW! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subj: Yay!!! Pinewoods has a third cook! Date: Mon, May 31, 1999 6:28 PM EDT From: manager-AT- pinewoods.org We are delighted to report that Pinewoods again has a third cook! We were bowled over by the abundant, thoughtful and caring response to my SOS of one week ago. Within days we had two excellent candidates (one from Baltimore and one from California) we were talking with, and one of them, Jeremy Morrison from Baltimore, will be joining us Thursday. The Internet Is Our Friend!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH, all of you who inquired, passed along the information to friends and relatives, and sent messages of support. To all of you who inquired about the job, please consider applying for next summer - we start gathering the names of prospects in January, so if you are at all interested, get in touch then. Once again, we were so touched by the outpouring of offers of assistance and support. We feel incredibly fortunate to be living and working in such a wonderful community of people. Yours, breathing a heavy sigh of relief, Eileen and Nilos ********************** Eileen Callahan, Camp Manager Pinewoods Camp, Inc. 80 Cornish Field Road Plymouth, MA 02360 tel. 508-224-4858; fax: 508-224-9172 e-mail: manager-AT- pinewoods.org ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 12:11:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:05:55 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906011509_MC2-77B5-7B79-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - standing rather solidly with one foot in each: ECD, SCD, New England traditional contras AND international folk dance (so I've got a few extra feet...), I've got a few comments. IFD is a horse of a different color, so let's leave it out of the current considerations. That leaves ECD, SCD and contras. In my opinion SCD excels when it comes to 'covering', timeliness and smoothness of transitions between the relatively limited number of figures and - I'm not in total agreement with this - precision of footwork in other than class situations. (Have you ever watched the feet of revered dancers and teachers when they dance 'socially'? Or those engineers who appear in the right place at the right time using footwork which defies description? Or even good, experienced older dancers?). The relatively uniform aesthetic (sterile - in a positive sense?) experience dancing with different groups in different settings abroad as well as in the US expects a dance to be taught verbally, then usually danced through for one or perhaps more couples, at which the finer points (maybe the subject matter of the class, if that's the occasion) are considered, and then: Let's Dance. Without further prompting except for within-the-set reminders. Number of couples for each turn, tempo (jig? reel? strathspey?), length of turn (how many bars?) influence the opportunities to - literally - start of on the right foot. But names of dances and increasingly, the names of many many tunes which are used for them, are of lesser importance to the dancers, even though there are 'name tunes' and 'any lively jig' options. Before the dance is danced 'for real', every participant has to have memorized her/his role in each turn as well as how to get to the bottom of the set when a figure lands her/him in third place. Space between the ears to absorb new verbal information is highly prized. New England traditional contras. I emphasize 'traditional' and 'New England' because of the drastic change in contra dancing over the last 20 or so years. I experienced the transition from the Ralph Page era, when the name of a dance caused immediate recall for many of the dancers, to 'contra dancing' in general, which is to be found all over the globe, features many new dances as well as odd mannerisms (inactive couples swinging their hearts out while the actives try to do a down the center and up, clapping (as discussed earlier) and such. I've danced to new callers who are not well grounded in contra dance traditions at all, 'dancing to the beat', phrasing etc. They can read their cue cards and may rely heavily on the band for 'steering'. Rarely can you announce 'French Four', 'Chorus Jig' or 'Petronella' and have EVERYbody be able to do them - after the 'hands four or hands six') without any further prompting. Strangely enough, in the realm of international folk dance, dancers learn the entire pattern for such chestnuts as well as SCD and ECD and dance without any prompting, provided the genres of Anglo dance are in their repertoire at all. I feel that contras teach danCING rather than danCES. Supported by calls, constant at the beginning, tapering off in the middle and then appearing again for the last turn, with reminders to cross over at the ends or when to start dancing (critical in triple minors), the dancers have the auditory as well as the sensory input simultaneously. Essentially they put themselves into the (hopefully skillful) care of the caller. ECD. The fact that I introduced my 'new' husband of eleven years to it AFTER Scottish and Contras should tell you something of my value system. There is a strong association between the music and the dance, as several folks have alluded to recently. There is a much better dance NAME association with tune, formation, figures and sequences - all rolled into one. Many of the 'have danced for many years' dancers share the same dance repertoire (most of us danced to recordings, and those had limited availability) and gleaned the 'proper' mannerisms from either teachers or peers and became capable 'helpful co-dancers' and/or leaders. Folks had certainly more respect for the function of the M.C. or teacher. Her/his skills could NOT be gleaned from cue cards, they assumed practical dance experience AND a talent for teaching. Since I do much of my teaching to recorded music, I employ the same kind of doodling which May Gadd used, stopping for specific teaching information and then picking up again. On some occasions I had the good fortune to collaborate with very knowledgeable and sensitive musicians. That's when my doodling was unnecessary and replaced by the rhythm AND the melody the dancers would be expecting to dance to. I always invite my dancers to visualize how the dance looks from directly above. Where to be when, how to get there elegantly. That makes their circles round and their casts synchronous if not timely at first. Covering and eye contact when possible make for smooth(er) dancing and the discovery of magic moments. I usually point out how movements are different when danced to a 3/2 tune, the casts, rights and lefts etc. Sometimes I alert them to potential magic moments, like the 2nd lady's path at the very end of B2 of 'Zephyr and Flora', or the timing of 'twos dance up holding closer hands WHILE the ones cast (after having set with the twos watching for the first two bars)' in 'Holborn March'. I try hard to preserve the difference between 'M1 & L2 set' and 'M1 sets TO L2', the former one having much greater flirt potential.... That did not become an issue until after ECD found new aficionados in the contra dance community. Few of the written dance directions, except for more recent material, give precise timing for leads, casts, direction reversals etc. and lend themselves to different interpretations. For example: if in 'Newcastle' the first set of arches stays in the center until the others are in position to go through those arches (having cast before), and then EVERYbody moves simultaneously - there's a dramatic change of dynamics which changes the direction of the lines into a crispness where usually there is muddle. Some of those changes from the manuals never see the light beyond an individual group, even though they make some dances more accessible. Others are carried into the general ECD realm because they enhance the dance experience and 'make sense' for all. Sometimes we have to go beyond of 'as many as will' in allowing individual interpretations in order to discover what works best for the whole set/group/occasion. That's perhaps the biggest difference between ECD and SCD, and 'the music will tell you' is more appropriate and more enjoyable - yeah, ecstacy-inducing - than in any of the other dance forms which which I am familiar. Just in case I haven't used enough of them in this epistle:''''''((())). Casting off (after waiting for bars 1 + 2) _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 13:57:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 13:57:17 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: rapturous hush (as well an addition to the discussion of Maypoles) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3754492d.5939.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Greetings to all from a complaining body after a very long Folklife weekend: Saturday I helped carry the Maypole (it was explained that "mai" in Swedish means greenery as well as the month that greenery begins to appear) as the Scandinavians paraded about the grounds culminating in a Midsummer style pole raising. In Swedish tradition, the green garlands are carried by the women and wrapped around the pole prior to hoisting. The large pole is raised by the men by pushing it up using pairs of smaller poles lashed together at one end. I have also seen pole-raisings where a long rope was used to pull the pole into place. The Swedish tradition is that the pole stays up, complete with the garlands, until just before the next midsummer. It is considered a very bad omen if the pole is blown down in a storm. Although Scandinavians dance around the pole after raising it, they do not wind ribbons around the pole as is done in other cultures. Scandia's annual Midsommerfest in Poulsbo, WA is June 27, with a pole 20 feet taller than the one we raised Saturday. Nordlys performed on Sunday as the second act in the three hour Scandinavian show. Our performance went extremely well and prompted several friends to say that we are currently the best Scandinavian performing group in the Northwest. The entire three hour show had only a couple minor glitches and went very well considering that it had been put together with many long distance telephone calls. The professional stage manager that was coordinating the sound and lighting crews complimented Art Hare on how well organized we had all been. One of the Nordlys members was dancing Monday with an Irish group that was still changing their show on Sunday when they rehersed. Nan Evans ECD session on Saturday was well attended and very enjoyable. I have to admit to leaving the session early as a friend was playing in a Scandinavian band in the next building. This group got its start playing for the Puget Sound Revels two years ago. One member, who lives in Tacoma, commented on long-distance practicing via telphone. Jane, who lives across the Sound in Poulsbo, had called and left a tune on Carla's answering machine for her to practice. Have other musicians used this method to reherse over distances? Thanks to a ride with Michael Penk, I arrived home at about 2:30am after departing with the strains of the weekends last waltz still echoing about in my head. >Hanny wrote: >my experience is that particularly beginning/inexperienced dancers don't >always listen to the initial instructions sufficiently as to be able to act >upon them. And 'listening' is not synonymous with 'hearing and >understanding' either. I often find that the ones who are not listening (especially at contra dances) are more likely to be the "experienced" people who are too busy chatting with their partner to listen. Or worse yet, someone nearby, so two couples get screwed up in the walk-through. They have to be prodded to establish hands-four and pushed through the walk-through because they just won't listen. Then when the dance starts they wonder what they are supposed to be doing and have to be pushed through the dance. There are certain people who especially annoy me because they believe themselves to be good dancers and have a real air about them. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:45:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:45:28 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Looking Back at Balls: Your First To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, JoAnne Rawls Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37545478.e1c.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >JoAnne Rawls wrote: > >Like Cinderella, we had to leave before midnight...it was a long way back to >Williamsburg and Newport News. But when I close my eyes and think about the >evening, it all comes back to me. The scent of roses and honeysuckle. The >cooling breeze after the heat of an early summer day. The smiles of old >friends and new, as we danced together along the set. The sound of flute, >harpsichord and strings playing the old, sweet music. The taste of >chocolate-dipped strawberries. The silvery moonlight making shadows on the >grass. It was a magical evening, and a beautiful introduction to the larger >world of English country dancing. > What a lovely setting for your first Ball. May you always have the memory of this experience. For myself, many of the balls I've been to have "run together in my mind", although some memories stand out without always being able to put a specific year to them. I used to take a lot of photos at balls and of course have those to remind me. One of my first memories of a fancy, dress-up affair was going to Swarthmore with Lyrl and Dennis for a Scottish-English Ball in November(?) of 1972. I know the year because I moved to New England in the spring of 1973. The thing I remember most about that evening was dancing the last two dances with a young lady who was a student at Swarthmore. As people were taking partners for a final waltz, we again found ourselves face-to face and danced the waltz, too. She was by far one of the best waltz partners I had ever had. It seemed that we were of one mind. No matter what I did, she was right with me, anticipating every move I made. I was aware of how effortless I found dancing with her. I never saw her again and it was years before I had another waltz equal to that memory. I sometimes wonder if she remembers, or if that memory has run together with others and been lost in time. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:51:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:51:01 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Sue Wartell Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <375455c5.1328.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Sue Wartell wrote: > "To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail." But it sure makes a difference which end of the tool he uses. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:08:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:07:46 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: listening To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JBW80VSQ1E985MCI-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I feel a need to clarify my concern. First of all, I was not asking for advice, as a caller, on how to get people to quiet down. I think we're all familiar with the techniques suggested -- and how, as Hanny points out, the worst offenders rarely understand (or care) that they are causing problems. Rather, I was wondering whether others felt, as I do, that this is a worsening trend -- that there is less courtesy on the dance floor, in general and specifically with regard to How Much It's Appropriate To Be Talking. Last month at the Hartford Ball, my partner (who shall remain nameless, unless he would like to identify himself, ahem) and I were desperately trying to have a rapturous musical experience while dancing to the sublime playing of Mary Lea, Gene Murrow, and Margaret Ann Martin. As the music grew more and more complex and urgent, the talking around us got louder and louder. It was extremely frustrating, and I have been noticing ever since how much I mind the level of chatter that covers the beautiful music we are so lucky to dance to. Robin (it must be the heat) Hayden ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:40:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:40:14 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: listening To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3754614e.3bb7.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Robin (it must be the heat) Hayden wrote: > >Rather, I was wondering whether others felt, as I do, that this is a >worsening trend -- that there is less courtesy on the dance floor, in >general and specifically with regard to How Much It's Appropriate To Be >Talking. > >Last month at the Hartford Ball, my partner (who shall remain nameless, >unless he would like to identify himself, ahem) and I were desperately >trying to have a rapturous musical experience while dancing to the sublime >playing of Mary Lea, Gene Murrow, and Margaret Ann Martin. As the music >grew more and more complex and urgent, the talking around us got louder and >louder. It was extremely frustrating, and I have been noticing ever since >how much I mind the level of chatter that covers the beautiful music we are >so lucky to dance to. > I found myself getting very frustrated at times at Folklife this weekend because the noise level made it very difficult to hear the callers instructions during the walk-throughs. But even after the music started, the level of talking didn't diminish and there were times I still didn't get all of the dance until it had gone several times through because I couldn't hear the calls either. Of course in the Roadhouse some of the talking is people standing or sitting and watching, or drinking in the beer garden, but much of it was other dancers trying to talk above the volume of the music. And Folklife is a unique situation because there are many people who stumble upon the dance hall during a day out in the public park and have never even seen this kind of dancing before. Things do get a bit wild on the dance floor. During Judy Rivken's ECD session there were a lot of people who had come in to do contras and didn't have a clue about ECD. Some one I danced one set with even said as much. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:12:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:11:39 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: rapturous hush To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <375468ab.57d6.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Robin (getting crotchety in my old age) Hayden > I keep hoping to hear a >respectful hush, so that teaching is fast and efficient and dancing is >musical and sublime. > Some of this talking is because people other than the caller are trying to teach the dance to those around them. I have to admit to doing that myself. Sometimes it is needed to reinforce instructions to beginners but it should be used very sparingly. I understand that Ralph Page would stop and inform the individual that there was only one teacher being paid in the hall and he was that person and would like to continue. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:00:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:59:05 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance-music connection (was Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 10:03 AM -0400 6/1/99, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: >At 12:15 AM -0400 6/1/99, Susan R. Lorand wrote: >>... callers can increase the chances that the music will be >>as good as possible by getting a program to the band well in advance. >>has anyone ever tried including with the program some tempo indications >>for the unfamiliar tunes? an approximate metronome marking can be very >>helpful. >These things are too fixed for the kinds of dances I call. My list of >basic repertoire, which my local musicians need to be able to play at my >convenience, is 75 dances long. This gives me to flexibility to respond to >any mess on the floor. It isn't necessary (or even advisable!) to provide a fixed program, if there is a relatively compact set of "probable alternates" covering the kinds of situation that you anticipate -- plus, as Susie alludes to, a larger "standard repertoire" that the musicians know (or can be referred to.) Your 75 dances would be a good list for musicians you work with regularly to have on hand: many of them are likely enough to be in _their_ standard list, and the others are going to be of interest in themselves as candidates for _our_ lists. Obviously, the actual situation can be so far from what's anticipated that you have to junk much (all!) of the planned program. But that's where a basic shared repertoire can really help. Or the more "contra" oriented "play me a jig/reel/hornpipe, and I'll fake it...." :-) ECD musicians need to foster skills at playing danceably, at least by a time or two through the tune (and preferably with a running start from clues in the dance/music...) from music they've never seen before. One thing that can help here -- and can also help to set the "tone" of the dance for the dancers as they are getting into sets, is to have the band (or its saviest member at this kind of thing) play through once before the teaching starts, so that you as caller get a chance to guide the performance, and the band gets a chance to get the tune/style/tempo into their heads. >Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new topic for >discussion here. As a "paper-trained" type, not easily handling "hear the tune and go with it," I'd be interested in any techniques people find help- ful in this. A certain amount comes with sheer experience doing the stuff in a group that can tolerate fumbling attempts in the right direction. But how to focus on getting somewhere efficiently? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:31:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:30:51 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "Michael J. O'Connor" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37547b3b.1d0d.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Michael J. O'Connor wrote: > At the other end of the >spectrum appear the rhythmically challenged that Art Munisteri referred >to. Those who don't seem to grasp that, when moving, you take one step >per beat, even after it is explained to them. I recently read a comment that it is very difficult to get a group of singers to truly sing together. The problem is that everyone feels the music in a different way. With that comment, I finally understood the reason that some dancers are off the beat. They may be to me, but not to themselves. There is one woman who contradances who is difficult to swing with because she is moving down when I am moving up. She is in rhythm, but about half a beat behind the beat as I feel it. Those people we percieve as not understanding may just sense the downbeat in a different place. >Does it work to suggest to this >subclass of dancers that they try to count? They may already be counting but don't feel the music the way most of us do. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 19:19:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:17:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: My First Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT JoAnne Rawls wrote: >Is it really true that you never forget your first time? (No - >I'm talking about your first ECD ball). Think back, if you >will, and remember your first ball. If the memories are too good to >keep to yourselves, please share. You really wanna know? Brattleboro, 1982. Actually, that was the year before the ball moved from Marlboro, Vt to nearby Brattleboro. I was living in New York City at the time, not yet married. I had been contradancing for five years but had only started with ECD a few months earlier. I drove up to Vermont with two friends and attended the afternoon workshop that Fred Breunig runs in preparation for the ball. I expect I learned more about ECD that afternoon than I have in any three-hour period since. One specific point I remember was in Mr. Isaac's Maggot. Fred was careful to emphasize the importance of the relationship between corners in the first figure, and how it exists until the active one disappears behind her/his neighbor on the way home. The Ball was truly magical. I met dozens of people whom I have gotten to know better in the intervening years, and some who I still see every November in Brattleboro. The band included Marshall Barron, Gene Murrow, and others whose names I did not know then but I'm sure I'd recognize now. Lucy Young invited us to brunch the next morning at her apartment, and I had a chance to really "network" about ECD with people who had been at it much longer than I (long before the internet, of course). On the way back to New York, we stopped in South Amherst, Mass, where Cammy Kaynor was running an ECD, and I had a chance to "cement" much of what I had learned in the previous 24 hours. I have been to many Playford Balls since, but Brattleboro remains my favorite. Fred's leading (only talk-throughs at the Ball), top-notch music, and a good geographic mix of participants make it well worth the drive from almost anywhere. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:44:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 01:46:30 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: My First Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 10:17 PM -0400 6/1/99, DavBarnert-AT- aol.com wrote: >JoAnne Rawls wrote: > > >Is it really true that you never forget your first time? (No - > >I'm talking about your first ECD ball). Think back, if you > >will, and remember your first ball. If the memories are too good to > >keep to yourselves, please share. > >You really wanna know? Brattleboro, 1982. Actually, that was the year >before the ball moved from Marlboro, Vt to nearby Brattleboro. I'll never forget Tony's dismay at having to clean up after a student food fight in that hall before we could have the ball rehearsal! It was a little space, not big enough for the crowd now. Out in the hills, down a narrow road, all the beauty of central Vermont............ The height of the period when Tony's humor and Fred's earnest demeanor played off each other. The years of "The New Floor's Revenge" and other wonders, Claudio walking out of the P. O. at the sword dance ale into the middle of the longsword set, and other high jinks. My, how we've changed. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 05:36:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:34:22 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: My First Ball To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Whew - I sure remember mine! It was the last Lenox Ball. Ron and I had just "noticed" each other, after quite awhile of knowing each other contradancing. Went to NEFFA where we did the very first Contra Medley at NEFFA together. I did my first ECD with Ben Rotenberg, who was probably about 13 at the time. oh dear. Anyway, Ron handed me a flyer for the Lenox Ball and said "doesn't this look interesting" or something like that. NOT "would you like to go together!" So I signed up. Got my programme notes. OH DEAR. Found out I had the music for some of the dances. Mr Beveridge.... OH DEAR. I tried walking it. I tried mentally rehearsing it and others. There were some very interesting shall we say dances on that list. Next time I saw Ron I said "got my tickets" His face sort of fell. But even then he didn't say "would you like to go together." LOL Whipped up a quasi-period dress. The big day arrives. Enjoy the afternoon and then the big moment. WOW. What a blur of beautiful dresses and jewelry and elegance. What beautiful flowers. What wonderful, if still scary, dancing. A wonderful evening dancing with everyone including the man who would later worm his way into English Week (thanks Kit!) and discuss marriage with me on a Wednesday afternoon..... Much later, when Ron was willing to admit that he had hoped we'd go together, I told him how I'd tried and tried to make Mr Beveridge's instructions fit the recording I had. He said he hadn't even thought about it until the afternoon of the dance. I still read the cheat sheets and listen to the music if I have it. Ron still doesn't think about it until the day of the dance. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:44:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:44:47 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: rhythm To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I finally understood the reason that some dancers are >off the beat. They may be to me, but not to themselves. There is one woman who >contradances who is difficult to swing with because she is moving down when >I am moving up. She is in rhythm, but about half a beat behind the beat as I >feel it. Those people we percieve as not understanding may just sense the >downbeat >in a different place. I have seen people who are "off" in just that way in a slipping circle. It looks very odd to people outside the set, and feels lumpy to others in the set. I don't think they could really be feeling the beat in a different place, as (I know this sounds dogmatic) they would be just plain wrong. The beat is the beat. One of the people I knew who did this is very musical, did a music degree in fact, and wouldn't make a mistake about rhythm. I think they are _responding_ to the _same_ beat in a different way. I think my friend felt that the place to be on the downbeat was in the air, not on her feet, so she sprang early so as to be in the air on time. >I recently read a comment that it is very difficult to get a group of singers >to truly sing together. The problem is that everyone feels the music in a >>different >way. Yes, certainly people feel music in different ways, but that would have to refer to slowing down or speeding up to give emphasis and meaning to the musical phrase. You can't argue about where in the bar (= measure) the beat is or you have anarchy. I'm talking solely about western European type music of course. Don't know anything about other kinds of music. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 08:55:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:27:37 +0000 From: Susan B Booker Subject: Memorable Playford Balls and Dances To: ecd-digest-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199906021554.LAA71630-AT- pimout4-int.prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, it wasn't a Playford Ball (although I fondly recollect many of those, too), but an after-party on the first night of my first attendance at Berea's Christmas Country Dance School (1980, I think) which remains as my transcendent dance memory. Way out in the country, past Indian Fort Mountain, past Big Hill, up the next mountain, a few more miles of paved road, then gravel. The caravan of cars eventually reached a grassy hilltop, under a clear winter sky. Scattered about the meadow were newish log houses of various designs. "What is this place?", I asked. "Windswept", someone answered."It's a kind of artists' colony". We entered the nearest cabin. There were several rooms, lit by oil lamps and candles, with a woodstove providing heat. The place was packed with dancers and musicians - the long line ran diagonally across the wooden floor, avoiding both the stove and the musicians. Most of the women were wearing the then-fashionable long "granny" skirts or dresses and there were lots of suspendered men, adding to the illusion of past times. We danced far into the night to fiddles, guitars, banjoes, and a hammered dulcimer. There were refreshments, and after a couple of hours, several dancers started to clog - traditional, Appalachian, individual, the-music-tells-you-what-to-do clogging. The rest of us watched in admiration, as the cloggers danced on and on. And on, and on, dropping out one by one, until only two young men remained dancing, and it spontaneously became a contest. The room was crowded and warm - and eventually their shirts were shed, but the dancers continued, dancing bare-chested in the candlelight. Finally the musicians wore out - and the dancers breathlessly burst out into the cold winter night, to recover from their exertions. When we finally left - around 2:00 A.M.; the party was still in full swing - the Milky Way was directly overhead. Far from city lights, I've never seen the stars as brilliant as they were that winter night.... I never did discover who hosted that incredible evening, despite many efforts over the years to learn the identity of the host(s?). So if you are out there, thank you for an unforgetable experience that was perfectly timed for a then-newish dancer. As in JoAnne's original post (thank you again, JoAnne!), I felt as if I had visited another time and place. It was magical. Another one of the reasons we keep returning to the dance...in search of those precious, unexpected and completely unpredictable times..... Susan Booker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:48:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:46:37 -0400 (EDT) From: SFORDNYC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/1/99 7:34:22 PM EST, adpete-AT- jps.net writes: << Those people we percieve as not understanding may just sense the downbeat in a different place. >> A downbeat is a downbeat is a downbeat. It occurs on the first beat of the measure -- it's not a relative concept. One cannot sense it "in a different place" -- one is either on it or not on it. There are those who don't feel the steady pulse of the music -- the regularity of the beat -- just as there are some people who can't carry a tune. For those who do feel it, it's a natural thing that you don't really think about. That isn't to say that only those with a perfect rhythmic sense should dance -- but it's certainly something to aspire to. Suzanne Ford ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:01:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:04:25 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: rhythm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 9:44 AM -0600 6/2/99, Emma Rushton wrote: >I have seen people who are "off" in just that way in a slipping circle. It >looks very odd to people outside the set, and feels lumpy to others in the >set. I don't think they could really be feeling the beat in a different >place, as (I know this sounds dogmatic) they would be just plain wrong. >The beat is the beat. One of the people I knew who did this is very >musical, did a music degree in fact, and wouldn't make a mistake about >rhythm. I think they are _responding_ to the _same_ beat in a different >way. I think my friend felt that the place to be on the downbeat was in >the air, not on her feet, so she sprang early so as to be in the air on >time. Aye. There's the rub. I remember when I was trying to learn to do Cajun dancing, before it became jitterbug. They go up on the down beat and down on the upbeat. They do that when they dance. I never got it. I suppose one could be thankful that I least I knew it and stopped trying. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:26:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:25:40 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, elf-AT- cape.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emily L. Ferguson wrote: >One of my local musicians is extremely music dependent. Does >not memorize readily. I'm the opposite - struggle to read >the music but can harmonize and sing the melody right off >after I've heard it once. > >Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new >topic for discussion here. Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:28:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:28:51 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Talking dancers and teaching asides; was Rapturous hush To: English Dance Message-ID: <002901bead1d$72b453f0$5b98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Robin wrote: >Has anyone else noticed an increasing amount of chatter on the dance floor, both while the caller is teaching, so that those who need to cannot hear the directions, and during the dancing.... Yes, Thomas Wilson, in 1815: "Silence in the dance should invariably be observed; but it too frequently occurs, that one half of the persons composing the Dance are in conversation on subjects generally unconnected with the Dance; their attention so frequently required in the Dance, not only thereby becomes diverted, but the music, which is the guide for the Dancer, is prevented form being distinctly heard." I'm surprised you seem only recently to have noticed it. I began dancing in the Washington, D.C., area in 1984/85. Talking during the teaching was typical behavior then and it was still occurring when we moved away last September. Over the years teaching-on-the-side was added as dancers, thinking they were being helpful, would explain figures to those nearby who hadn't understood the directions from the caller. Of course, both habits are learned behavior. New dancers observe that few dancers are paying any attention to the caller and so they, too, begin to converse with their partners, ignoring the caller. After a few months they notice some brand-new folks who know even less than they and they believe that the proper thing to do is pass on what (little) knowledge they have to these folks, again while the caller is trying to teach something. And so it goes. We attended a dance in Amherst (where, I believe, you are located) in August 1996 and the noise level was quite high there, too, during both the walk-throughs and the dancing. Courteous attention to the caller seems not to be part of the etiquette of English country dancing in most places where we have danced. What I have observed is that it is not the strength of the caller that determines whether the dancers are attentive or not. I have seen most of our good, our favorite, our best-known ECD callers ignored while they were teaching. Rather, attention to the caller seems to depend on what the group considers, quite simply, good manners and their willingness to practice same. In Scottish groups newcomers learn, by the example of everyone around them, that talking during the teaching or asking questions of another dancer is "not done." Other dancers, including those who are also teachers, know that explaining something on the side is "not done." That's all. Even a weak teacher, or one temporarily confused, is accorded these courtesies. If a group does not believe that quiet attention is a desirable habit, then callers must resort to various techniques to gain the dancers' attention. It is a test of wills, and the caller's "victory" is only temporary at best. Worse yet, how many times have you seen callers become so frustrated at the noise level that they lose composure and shout at the dancers? Talk about ill will on the floor! By contrast, if a group does believe in courteous attention to the caller, then no stratagems are required, no test of wills ensues, no frustrated outbursts occur. When some talking does happen, the teacher merely requests that it stop. There is no test of wills because the teacher is quietly recalling the group to the etiquette standard by which they have all agreed to be governed. I am writing this in sections. I have just now read Lou Vosteen's comment and see that he, too, discusses this as a question of good manners. Regarding not talking while dancing, that is also a function of courtesy toward one's fellow dancers. Either it is a practice which the group regards as desirable and which newcomers learn, or it is not. Lou mentions the example of the Jane Austen movies. I have to say, Lou, that Elizabeth and Darcy's conversation during one particular dance (was it Mr. Beveridges Maggot?) drove me crazy. I wanted to tell them to be quiet and enjoy one of my favorite dances! It may very well be true that single men and women needed the time during a dance for unchaperoned conversations, but we don't. I prefer to have my conversations at other times and JUST DANCE while the music is playing. To return to Wilson's comments: shall we say that dancers are no worse than folks back then? Or that they are no better? Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:51:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 12:51:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Standard repertoire To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906021751.MAA16739-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hanny D. Budnick writes: > > I am used to the concept of 'house dances' at the local venue which hosts > SCD social dances. Perhaps those of you who are assuming a 20 - 30 dance > repertoire from your musicians are willing to let the rest of us know which > tunes (dances) qualify? > Here is the list of dances we came up with. These are mainly for times when we don't have enough dancers to do the dances we've planned or when we have a large influx of newcomers (last year we had 30 high school students who had been reading Jane Austen show up at a dance). 2 couple: Heartsease Hit and Miss Rufty Tufty 3 couple: Black Nag Picking Up Sticks Upon A Summer's Day longways Christchurch Bells Cumberland Reel Hole In The Wall Portland Fancy The Queen's Jig Winster Gallop circles Selenger's Round Gathering Peascods Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:54:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:48:01 -0400 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: rhythm (downbeats) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In response to Emma Rushton >> I think my friend felt that the place to be on the downbeat was in >>the air, not on her feet, so she sprang early so as to be in the air on >>time. Emily Ferguson replied: >Aye. There's the rub. > >I remember when I was trying to learn to do Cajun dancing, before it became >jitterbug. They go up on the down beat and down on the upbeat. They do >that when they dance. >I never got it. >I suppose one could be thankful that I least I knew it and stopped trying. This isn't about CAJUN dancing, but for those with an historical viewpoint of ECD, Baroque dance often has the step preparation (sink) on the upbeat, and the actual (rising) step ON the downbeat. When done properly, this gives a marvelous and elegant lift to the dance as well as your individual movements and gestures... I love the feeling of *rising* as I step forward to meet my partner... I was in 7th heaven dancing Volpone in Baroque style with Sam Rotenberg a couple of years ago. At last! Someone who danced in the same (18th-c) generation as I did! ;-)) Beacuse of my training in early music and in early dance, it's often very hard for me to see and hear a great THUNK! of music and feet on the DOWNbeat... when I want to go just the other way. This great thunking gesture -- *to me* -- often makes the music heavy and weighted, when I'm trying hard to float upward and forward. I guess it's all in your personal point of view -- which encompasses your own musical training, dance experience, and world view, not to mention the charms of your dancing partner... I hope Suzanne Ford will allow me a slightly different point to her recent post: >A downbeat is a downbeat is a downbeat. It occurs on the first beat of the >measure -- it's not a relative concept. One cannot sense it "in a different >place" -- one is either on it or not on it. There are those who don't feel >the steady pulse of the music -- the regularity of the beat -- just as there >are some people who can't carry a tune. For those who do feel it, it's a >natural thing that you don't really think about. That isn't to say that >only those with a perfect rhythmic sense should dance -- but it's certainly >something to aspire to. I would say I have a pretty good rhythmic sense, and I would say that I do feel the steady pulse of the music and the regularity of its beat...whether I'm dancing or playing, or teaching dancing or coaching instrumental and vocal ensembles... I would *prefer* to be on the pulse of the music and let the DOWNbeats take care of themselves. Shall I simply say I prefer to "rise" to the occasion? ;-)) Now back to the salt mines, I have to get a book on-press by Friday. *gulp!*.... Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News Deadline June 15 for July 1 issue Events July 1-September 30 BEMF WRAP-UP & ALL SUMMER LISTINGS! WEB Calendar http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/ Pavane website http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~nhmuse/Pavane 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:04:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:04:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 SFORDNYC-AT- aol.com wrote: > A downbeat is a downbeat is a downbeat. It occurs on the first beat of the > measure -- it's not a relative concept. One cannot sense it "in a different > place" -- one is either on it or not on it. A phenomenon which has escaped mention so far in this thread is the strongly synchopated upbeat -- some contradance bands choose to play some pieces with such a strong and regular upbeat and so little on the downbeat, that it is really hard to synchronize oneself with the downbeat. It is not at all surprising to find some folks going up when I'm going down, & vice-versa, when they're in that mode. I find it can be overdone -- rather than providing an energizing lift, it can create frustration and require an extra effort in order to overcome it to be able to dance with the music. But I haven't experienced this to any significant degree with ECD bands. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:20:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:18:08 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: rapturous hush (as well an addition to the discussion of Maypoles) To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906021418_MC2-77EE-2110-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have been dancing Scottish Country Dances for almost thirty years, English just a bit less and Contras since the early 1940's and it still annoys the hell out of me when dancers don't listen to the talk throughs. I don't care how long I have been dancing, I still need to hear the words (not everyone interprets each dance the same way and sometimes there are more than one version of a dance: i;e; Long Odds) and what is more I think it is just plain bad manners not to be quiet when the leader is talking. Unfortunately it is often the experienced dancers who think they know it all and don't have to listen to the caller. In my early days I belonged to Margo Mayo's American Square Dance Group and it was an accepted practice for someone ( or everyone) to raise his/her hand when the leader started to talk and that was a sign for everone to "shut up". It may have been childish but it sure worked. Wouldn't it be a shame to have to revert to such a device but if we can't be grown up enough to know what good dance manners consist of, maybe we have to be treated like children. To bad! Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:27:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:25:59 -0400 (EDT) From: SFORDNYC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: rhythm (downbeats) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <8252c3e4.2486d137-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/2/99 1:01:43 PM EST, sheilab-AT- tiac.net writes: << I would *prefer* to be on the pulse of the music and let the DOWNbeats take care of themselves. >> We are in agreement. I didn't mean to imply that you have to move "down" on the downbeat -- that's just a word to refer to the 1st beat of the measure (at least that's how I was using it). The essence is being in sync with the pulse -- whether you're moving up or down -- or sideways. Suzanne Ford // hopefully not grinding down on the downbeat (or this topic!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:37:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Trip to Kilburn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I recall reading a post regarding the timing of details in A Trip to Kilburn, in which it was emphatically stated that the cast up (for the first couple) occurs at the beginning of the musical phrase (A2, I believe) rather than at the end (of A1). Indeeed, Mr. Sharp is quite explicit in his description of this. However, in at least one original version (DM, Vol. 2, 4th ed., 1728) [see http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage, page 351], A2 begins with "Hands round with the 2d Cu. and lead thro' the 2nd Cu._:" The end of A1 simply said "... lead thro' the 3d Cu._." To top it off, the tune is not "Black and Grey" which is generally used for "A Trip to Kilburn" but a tune of its own, which doesn't look that bad, either. Curiously, Barlow does not include a tune for "A Trip to Kilburn" in his compendium of Playford tunes. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:41:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:50:02 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Talking dancers and teaching asides; was Rapturous hush To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT One way of dealing with talking by experienced dancers is to allot some time to take advantage of their expertise. Sometimes during the request period in Boston after doing a set dance one time through, there is time for the individual sets to work out problems they just had in the dance. If people feel that the caller is not doing a good job of addressing problems on the floor, and is not letting anybody else address them, then they will talk out of turn. Best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 11:57:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:51:34 -0400 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Talking dancers and teaching asides; was Rapturous hush To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Terry Gaffney wrote: >One way of dealing with talking by experienced dancers is to allot some >time to take advantage of their expertise. Sometimes during the request >period in Boston after doing a set dance one time through, there is time >for the individual sets to work out problems they just had in the dance. > >If people feel that the caller is not doing a good job of addressing >problems on the floor, and is not letting anybody else address them, then >they will talk out of turn. Perhaps if people were QUIET when the instructions were given... Alas, in many places -- including Boston, at least while dances took place in the Cambridge YWCA -- some callers "fight back" by turning up the sound system. Then people talk LOUDER. Then the sound VOLUME GOES UP AGAIN. [That's when Jonathan and I went home....] Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News Deadline June 15 for July 1 issue Events July 1-September 30 BEMF WRAP-UP & ALL SUMMER LISTINGS! WEB Calendar http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/ Pavane website http://www.nh.ultranet.com/~nhmuse/Pavane 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 VOX 978/263.9926 FAX 978/263.2366 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:41:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:34:43 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: rhythm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <99060216344344-AT- tedcrane.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Regarding where people put their foot down in relation to the music & Emily's trouble finding a (to her) counter-intuitive up & down beat - I've seen people from other cultures at our contra dance have exactly the same problem in reverse - they very obviously are trying to have their foot up in the air on the down beat, and come down on the upbeat. They have confused expresions, trying to figure out why they are not in sync with all the other dancers. When I started out morris dancing some years ago, it was not always clear to me whether a foot was supposed to start on the ground or in the air in a given step, and I had to ask for very specific instructions to help me through it. All this is to say that different people and cultures do indeed interpret how to respond to a beat when dancing in very differetnt ways, and it might serve us well to keep that in mind when teaching or dancing with them. -Pamela (in centraly isolated NY) Goddard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:48:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:44:49 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <5315d46f.2486ffd1-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/2/99 5:29:56 PM, you wrote: <<>Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new >topic for discussion here. Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders.>> I far prefer to play (violin) from memory and by ear for dances, once I know the tune. Unfortunately, I don't know every ECD tune, and it helps to have the dots to look at sometimes. I try to avoid even having the music in front of me if possible, as I will tend to look at it even if I know the tune cold. Sometimes just pushing the stand away or kicking it over will force me to learn the tune by ear, or convince me that I know it. But it's dangerous. If I totally space out, the dancers suffer. BTW, I have no problem with kicking my music stand over myself, but if a caller ever did that to me (or any musician I know) intentionally, I can't imagine that being received well (to put it politely). Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:57:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 14:57:00 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3755a8ac.e4a.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >In a message dated 6/2/99 5:29:56 PM, you wrote: > ><<>Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new > >topic for discussion here. > >Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the >musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the >music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders.>> > >I far prefer to play (violin) from memory and by ear for dances, once I know >the tune. Unfortunately, I don't know every ECD tune, and it helps to have >the dots to look at sometimes. I try to avoid even having the music in front >of me if possible, as I will tend to look at it even if I know the tune cold. >Sometimes just pushing the stand away or kicking it over will force me to >learn the tune by ear, or convince me that I know it. But it's dangerous. If >I totally space out, the dancers suffer. >BTW, I have no problem with kicking my music stand over myself, but if a >caller ever did that to me (or any musician I know) intentionally, I can't >imagine that being received well (to put it politely). > >Carl Friedman > > Now to figure out the logistics of doing it to an entire band with about 8 music stands. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:06:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 18:06:39 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 1:25 PM -0400 6/2/99, DavBarnert-AT- aol.com wrote: >Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the >musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the >music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders. Cruel, heartless, awful! I wouldn't want to hear the result from that musician. She'd know a trick a mile away. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:59:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:52:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990602225247.8453.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Patricia Ruggiero wrote: > Lou mentions the example of the Jane Austen movies. I have to say, Lou, > that Elizabeth and Darcy's conversation during one particular dance (was it > Mr. Beveridges Maggot?) drove me crazy. I wanted to tell them to be quiet > and enjoy one of my favorite dances! It may very well be true that single > men and women needed the time during a dance for unchaperoned > conversations, but we don't. I prefer to have my conversations at other > times and JUST DANCE while the music is playing. I'm with those who prefer to keep the chat for more stationary moments. I know that I can't converse and dance at the same time and do either one of them well. Maybe if all of us on the dance floor were as witty and perspicacious as Elizabeth Bennett, it would be a different matter. But mind you, the movies presented a fictionalized, modernized version of how Jane Austen's characters would have danced - and talked. If I understand it aright, the characters did not do their talking while they danced, they did it during the loooong stretches of time when they were standing out because couples at the bottom of the set didn't begin dancing until the original top couple reached their minor set. It wasn't until that was explained to me that I understood how the characters in Jane Austen novels managed all those conversations - not to mention walking away in order to have a long chat with someone on the sidelines. Mr. Bingley walks over to Mr. Darcy who is standing outside the dance, to encourage Darcy to ask Elizabeth to dance, *while* Mr. Bingley is himself engaged in dancing with Jane. Just imagine trying to pull that off in the middle of "the Fandango" on a crowded Ballroom floor! Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:19:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 16:18:52 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3755bbdc.5529.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >>---Patricia Ruggiero wrote: >> >> ... I prefer to have my conversations at >other >> times and JUST DANCE while the music is playing. > >To which Barbara Ruth replied: > >I'm with those who prefer to keep the chat for more stationary >moments. I know that I can't converse and dance at the same time >and do either one of them well. Many people who talk and dance at the same time are more intent on talking than paying attention to the dance. Those are the one I refered to in an earlier posting as having to be pushed through the dance because they don't have a clue as to where they are supposed to go. Richard Powers once quoted a bit of ettiquette that went something like this: A gentleman never asks a lady a question (while dancing) as she may give the answer to the wrong person. Remember that guys, the next time you are tempted to ask a question of someone while dancing. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 17:07:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 20:04:29 -0400 (EDT) From: ArcadiaCB-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <394906e7.2487208d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Just adding my bit re the talking during dances in earlier periods. A good bit of conversation was also made by the third couple in the triple minor dances. That's the reason so many dances that were originally written as triples have been modernized into doubles---they say that the 3's don't have much -- or sometimes anything--to do. Originally they were conversing and flirting. You have to think back to the time period---no phones, no cars, --often you had not seen these people in weeks or months--or ever. Dances were a very social occasion. It was considered bad manners to dance too often with the person you came with--presumably you already knew them and spoke often---so why spend you time with them unless you were newlyweds or wanted to start rumours of romances by dancing together too frequently. Dancing was for mixing and socializing, for meeting new people, for starting romances. Dancing was also very much a young person's thing--"they" would probably be surprised that the middle-aged dancers far outnumber those in their teens and 20s nowadays (at least around here). Dances were a place to see and be seen. Just another bit of manners and social life that our fast-paced modern life has taken away from us! Charlene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 23:45:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: Philippe.Callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 08:43:13 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Trip to Kilburn To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37562401.FDF8913F-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Eric, Eric Arnold wrote: > I recall reading a post regarding the timing of details in A Trip to > Kilburn, in which it was emphatically stated that the cast up (for the > first couple) occurs at the beginning of the musical phrase (A2, I > believe) rather than at the end (of A1). Indeeed, Mr. Sharp is quite > explicit in his description of this. > > However, in at least one original version (DM, Vol. 2, 4th ed., 1728) [see > http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage, page 351], A2 begins with "Hands > round with the 2d Cu. and lead thro' the 2nd Cu._:" The end of A1 simply > said "... lead thro' the 3d Cu._." > > To top it off, the tune is not "Black and Grey" which is generally used > for "A Trip to Kilburn" but a tune of its own, which doesn't look that > bad, either. Curiously, Barlow does not include a tune for "A Trip to > Kilburn" in his compendium of Playford tunes. Barlow's collection only includes the tunes of all the volume 1 (one) editions only. Thought you'd like to know that. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 01:40:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 01:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 CF1125-AT- aol.com wrote: > << Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the > musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the > music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders.>> > BTW, I have no problem with kicking my music stand over myself, but if a > caller ever did that to me (or any musician I know) intentionally, I can't > imagine that being received well (to put it politely). I'll second that, Carl. Kicking over a musician's music stand to "get them free of the notes" is, at the very least, manipulative game-playing and an insult to the musician's dignity. If a caller thinks s/he knows more about what a particular musician needs than the musician does, and takes the sort of action described above, that caller is an arrogant, condescending jerk who should learn to respect his/her fellow professionals. Paul Stamler ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 04:42:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 07:49:38 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990603073726.00add320-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Loves, take it easy--the fellow who made the original suggestion about kicking over the music stands is a musician, _not_ a caller. And he has been known to have a sense of humor. Hugs, Sharon Green (who may not kick over music stands, but who has been known to be tripped up by mic cables, not to mention her occasional uncensored comments over the mic...) At 01:36 AM 6/3/99 -0700, Paul J. Stamler wrote: >On Wed, 2 Jun 1999 CF1125-AT- aol.com wrote: > >> << Listen during a particular dance until you have the sense that the >> musician knows the tune better than they may realize. Then kick the >> music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders.>> > >> BTW, I have no problem with kicking my music stand over myself, but if a >> caller ever did that to me (or any musician I know) intentionally, I can't >> imagine that being received well (to put it politely). > >I'll second that, Carl. Kicking over a musician's music stand to "get them >free of the notes" is, at the very least, manipulative game-playing and an >insult to the musician's dignity. If a caller thinks s/he knows more about >what a particular musician needs than the musician does, and takes the >sort of action described above, that caller is an arrogant, condescending >jerk who should learn to respect his/her fellow professionals. > >Paul Stamler ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:34:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:36:12 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Memorable Playford Balls and Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Three of my most vivid memories date from back in the mid-70s. One was at the scout house in Concord, MA. Dudley Laufman was calling a dance there and it was late in the evening and the building was all warm brown inside. The lights were tamed somehow, not dimmed deliberately but sort of maybe in my mind the end-of-evening mellow. It probably was Allen Block and Dudley himself, fiddle and concertina, maybe not Dudley but he is a box player. I'd never heard that sound before and they were playing King of the Fairies. Both instruments have hoards of overtones as well as the pitch itself. So eerie and clear. Such a neat tune. The second was at Art Cornelius' 50th birthday party, in the same hall, when Claudio totally surprised Earl by introducing the melody of Helene's Night Out while we were dancing his new dance, Arthur's Night In. We weren't supposed to tell. He wanted to surprise both Arthur and Earl. So we kept it mum and we could hear Earl's laughter ring out over the entire hall. Art guffawed in that distinctive way he has. We all just went on dancing, grinning from ear to ear. The third was at the same event. Bob McQuillan was part of the band and played along with the English dances. Fred Breunig had us doing something that's in Eb and Bob's noisy teasing outrage bounded out over the hall. "My god, this thing's in THREE flats!" he said, and the English dancers snickered. Hard key for a contra/square dance musician! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:35:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:33:31 -0700 From: Norman Bradley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990603042433.0095c610-AT- pop.slip.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19990603042433.0095c610-AT- pop.slip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 02:04 PM 6/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >A phenomenon which has escaped mention so far in this thread is the >strongly synchopated upbeat -- some contradance bands choose to play some >pieces with such a strong and regular upbeat and so little on the >downbeat, that it is really hard to synchronize oneself with the downbeat. >It is not at all surprising to find some folks going up when I'm going >down, & vice-versa, when they're in that mode. I find it can be overdone >-- rather than providing an energizing lift, it can create frustration and >require an extra effort in order to overcome it to be able to dance with >the music. But I haven't experienced this to any significant degree with >ECD bands. > >Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor > Perhaps the bands that use strong syncopation should be reminded that they are a DANCE band and not a performance band. It helps IMMENSELY when the musicians also dance, as all of ours do. One way to lessen the problem and let the band have some fun with the music is to have time set aside for the band to play while the dancers recover and the caller, off to the side, gets suggestions for additions/changes to the program. I should note that we once had a lead musician that got SO board with Greenwood that she would change to three different tunes during the dance (Morgan started it and Avis continued). Norman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 06:37:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 09:40:32 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Call for Papers: Interdisciplinary Dance Conference To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT The following might interest some people on this list. > >INTERDISCIPLINARY DANCE CONFERENCE, Ghent, Belgium, 11-18 April 2000. CALL >FOR PAPERS AND PERFORMANCES. Deadline: 1 September for papers, 1 October >for performance proposals. Proposals may cover any period of dance history >up to 1900, any kind of practical demonstration, and any interdisciplinary >topic from musicology to iconography, cultural studies, literature and >theatre history. > >BOARD: Under the auspices of ITI UNESCO. Honorary President Archduchess >Maria Gabrielle d'Autriche. Committee: Lieven Baert (Ghent), Tim Carter >(Royal Holloway College, London), Angene Feves (Pleasant Hill, >California), Sandra Hammond (University of Hawaii, retired), Ken Pierce >(Longy School of Music, Cambridge/Mass.), Barbara Ravelhofer (St John's >College, Cambridge University), Barbara Sparti (Rome), Jaan Van Schoor >(University of Ghent), The City of Ghent, Stichting Produkties Oude Muziek >en Theater (Amsterdam), Danshögskolan Stockholm, m.m.v. Provincie >Oost-Vlaanderen. > >For further information please contact Barbara Ravelhofer, St John's >College, GB-Cambridge CB2 1TP, br202-AT- cus.cam.ac.uk, or Lieven Baert, >Scheldestr.109, B-9040 Gent, Belgium, be013485-AT- oxygen.uunet.be. Website >http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/Public/ravel > >Barbara Ravelhofer >br202-AT- cus.cam.ac.uk > Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 07:58:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:58:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dealing with the musicians To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Instead of kicking over the music stand, why not kick over the musicians? Pesky varmints. I recall reading about a piece of 16th century merry making in England (in one of Hutton's books): a bull was turned loose on the musicians, and the other people at the event laughed merrily. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 10:45:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:44:21 -0400 From: Daniel Walkowitz Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990603134421.0071fef4-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My sense is that "fast paced modern life" has increased, not diminished, the value of moments of human personal contact. I am also struck by how much people still preen and come to see and be seen. The past is often in the present. [sounds like a fortune cookie] Danny (moi preen?) walkowitz At 08:04 PM 6/2/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Just adding my bit re the talking during dances in earlier periods. A good >bit of conversation was also made by the third couple in the triple minor >dances. That's the reason so many dances that were originally written as >triples have been modernized into doubles---they say that the 3's don't have >much -- or sometimes anything--to do. Originally they were conversing and >flirting. You have to think back to the time period---no phones, no cars, >--often you had not seen these people in weeks or months--or ever. Dances >were a very social occasion. It was considered bad manners to dance too >often with the person you came with--presumably you already knew them and >spoke often---so why spend you time with them unless you were newlyweds or >wanted to start rumours of romances by dancing together too frequently. >Dancing was for mixing and socializing, for meeting new people, for starting >romances. Dancing was also very much a young person's thing--"they" would >probably be surprised that the middle-aged dancers far outnumber those in >their teens and 20s nowadays (at least around here). Dances were a place to >see and be seen. > Just another bit of manners and social life that our fast-paced modern life >has taken away from us! > Charlene > > Daniel J. Walkowitz Director, Metropolitan Studies, and Professor of History 285 Mercer Street, rm 703, New York University New York, New York 10003-6607 tel. (212) 998-8091 fax (212) 995-4371 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:43:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 11:45:42 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dancing to the beat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990603114542.007f6200-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There has been some discussion on dancing to the beat, with several people suggesting that some people don't "feel" the beat, and some hear it "differently." When I started teaching folk dance full time, I did believe that some people just didn't have a sense of rhythm. I thought that those who didn't hear the beat couldn't learn, and those who heard it, but didn't move to it, could improve, so I started testing students to see which problem they had. In order to eliminate coordination, momentum and balance problems from the mix, I had students clap to the beat and if they couldn't do that, speak or make a vocal noise on the beat. Every single person, including one kid with cerebral palsy, passed. They all heard the beat. So experience taught me that there are several problems getting in their way, but HEARING the beat is not one of them. Everyone hears the beat if they listen for it (some dancers think of music as glorified background noise-- they could hear the beat if they tried but they don't-- this is a different issue). 1) Dancers need to understand that what we mean by dancing on the beat is FINISHING a movement on the beat. Some dancers hear the beat, then move in response. They think they are dancing on the beat because they are listening for it and responding to it, but their footfalls are inevitably after the beat. They need to change their thinking about what we mean by dancing on the beat, planning ahead to have the foot touch on the beat, instead of starting the movement then. This is more common than you think. Knowing what is expected (ending the movement on the beat) plus practice can fix this. 2) Walking requires leaning forward so you are slightly off balance, moving one leg forward, and catching yourself from falling just on the beat. This takes timing and coordination, and is a learned skill. Most of us have a lot of experience getting the feel of how much lean to do so that we don't step too soon or too late, and those of us who started being exposed to music and dance very young don't realize that it isn't innate becaue we learned it so young. But some adult beginners are trying this for the first time. They aren't successful initially, but will learn to do it with practice. 3) Some dancers have poor posture and poor body mechanics. They don't have their weight centered, so they can't change direction easily. They are often falling in the wrong direction, having to take extra steps to keep from falling forward, or they are starting backwards too late because they haven't adjusted their posture to account for momentum. To change direction, one actually leans (from the ankles, not bendingthe body) slightly in the opposite direction from the way one is moving, reducing the momentum in the old direction, timing this so that the body comes to a point of balance exactly at the phrase end, and starts falling int he new direction at the beginning of the next phrase. Beginners don't do this. They lean into the direction they are going, and it takes some extra time to change direction-- they are late because they are shifting their body weight and overcoming momentum. They go forward a double and it takes 5 1/2 steps before they can start moving backwards. As they gain better posture and more experience, they can work all this out, and they dance in time. For direction changes (e.g. up a double and back) I used to help students speed up the process by telling them to "hang themselves up by the hair" leaving their body more or less where it was, and moving their feet underneath. This image reduced the upper body lurching in each direction and enabled them to change direction more efficiently. 4) Some dancers have sluggish coordination. IT takes a LONG time for the signal from the brain to move the feet, so they think about doing the motion and the beat passes them by before they actually do it. They are likely to take 13 steps on a 16 beat phrase-- they can't move fast enough. For a long time I thought this problem was fatal to dancing in time-- that it was the one thing that couldn't be overcome. Then Maggie signed up for beginning folk dance. And intermediate. And advanced. She took my class for two full years, dancing 45 minutes a day, 4 days a week. Maggie was a painfully shy 11 year old with very slow coordination and some learning disabilities. She didn't seem to get anything out of the demostration and instruction, moving in the correct direction, but not distinguishing what kinds of steps were being used, or seeing which foot to start on. She learned the sequences with many mistakes that had to be slowly unlearned. She was also very slow in coordination, and never danced in time to music. After a year, Maggie could learn dances by watching and listening without help, but her reaction time was still slow and she was usually behind the beat, and she took too few steps per phrase. I gave her the clue of watching the other dancers, and mirroring them to try to stay in time, and this really helped. She started getting the feel of how far ahead she had to plan in order to match her classmates by using her eyes instead of her ears. In the middle of the second year she and her best friend, who was a very fine dancer, both fell in love with Irish dancing, ("Vicky we found our village! And its in Ireland!") and I taught the good dancer a solo jig to perform at Folklife while the rest of the class changed costumes between dances. She was afraid to perform it solo, though, and asked if Maggie could do it with her. Oi! I had grave doubts about Maggie's ability to move her feet fast enough for Irish jigs, but I said yes, as long as you can look like twins when you do it. They ran off hand in hand. They must have cut classes and lunch and homework and sleep to put in enough practice time, but at the end of the week, two days before Folklife, they were both perfect, and identical. That noontime the good dancer sprained her ankle, and Maggie, who two years earlier had looked as though she was rhythmically hopeless, danced a solo Irish jig with rapid-fire footwork for 400 people, in perfect time! IT was a personal as well as a dance victory for this shy, uncoordinated kid. I've never been more proud of a student. So I learned from Maggie that a "poor" beginner can turn into a good dancer given enough time and motivation and a secure environment where she won't get discouraged. I had just never seen someone initially so poor at dancing stay with it for long enough to get good, so I'd always thought it wasn't possible. I no longer believe there are people who don't hear the beat. I think there are people who don't listen to it. I think there are people who haven't encountered callers who explain what they need to do to improve. I think there are people who aren't motivated to improve. I think there are people who think moving to the beat means "now I hear it, then I move." I think there are beginners who need some experience to work on their posture and balance. I think there are people with slow coordination who have to plan far ahead to get through all the movements necessary to take each step, and make it land on time. And I think there are disabled people whose bodies won't respond in a predictable manner and who will never dance on the beat due to damage from stroke or cerebral palsy. But if you have them recite poetry to music, they can. So now I think that everybody HEARS the beat. And almost all of them can learn to dance to it. Now how do we motivate them to do it? Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 12:07:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 15:05:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Chicoqueen-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing to the beat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: bestockp-AT- oz.net (paul/victoria bestock) Message-ID: <5e0d8a7.24882be9-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thank you for your very moving story of Maggie, and for your accounts of your experiments re "hearing" the beat vs being able to move appropriately. It has given me much food for thought. I have been contradancing for over 13 years, and teaching beginner contradancing workshops and leading contra dance for over 12 years. I have been guilty many times of secretly wishing certain people would stop coming to dances because they don't "get" dancing on the beat, but mostly because my assumption has been that such people will *never* get it. Now I know better -- and you have given me some interesting ideas for effective ways to help most of such folks. Reine Wonite lifelong dancer Chico, CA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:43:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:50:23 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing to the beat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990603164753.00b2f240-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 11:45 AM 6/3/99 -0700, paul/victoria bestock wrote: >So now I think that everybody HEARS >the beat. And almost all of them can learn to dance to it. > >Now how do we motivate them to do it? We give them more teachers like you, Vicky. If we and they are very lucky. Much love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 13:44:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:44:52 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: listening; used to be rapturous hush To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990603204352.BAB11709-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 1 Jun 99, Robin wrote: I was wondering whether others felt, as I do, that this is a > worsening trend -- that there is less courtesy on the dance floor, in > general and specifically with regard to How Much It's Appropriate To Be > Talking. > > Last month at the Hartford Ball, my partner and I were desperately > trying to have a rapturous musical experience I know that this is not what the thread(s) is about, but I can't help mentioning that when I saw "Robin Hayden" and "rapturous hush" in the same heading I could think only of the occasion when her dance In the Deep Midwinter was done at Pinewoods (recently; last summer?). Everyone was silent, and I think that even the footwork was quiet too. I don't know what it was, exactly, but it seemed as though even the slightest lapse of attention from the dance, by anyone, would diminish us. Cheers, Art CDNY, NYC ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:26:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:26:37 -0400 From: Lou Vosteen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dull Sir John To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm looking for some expert advice (or top-of-the-head opinions) on the interpretation of some dance instructions. In "Dull Sir John" , Playford, 1st ed., the third part of the dance is given as follows: [A] "Men cast off, and going on the outside your owne We. fall into each others places, We. as much, men as much againe We. as much." [B] "First and 3. Cu. meet, go about each other, We. back to back not turning your faces, give right hands to the Co. We. and left hands to your owne, and so stay in your own places as at the first, the other foure doing the like." In Sharp's interpretation (and I would agree), Part A puts the first couple in the 3's place, the 3's in the 1's, 2's in 4's etc. In Part B, the meaning of the phrase: "First and 3. Cu. meet, go about each other, We. back to back not turning your faces" is not too clear, especially the part " meet, go about each other." Sharp simply says the first & third meet, go back to back with opposite, and do two changes of rights & lefts. Doing as Sharp suggests does get everyone back to their original places ("as at the first"). But, is there another interpretation of "meet, go about each other" that could be applied here? If I assume there is a typo and the phrase should read: "First and 3. Cu. meet, go about each OTHER'S We. back to back not turning your faces" then Sharp's interpretation appears valid and everything is very straightforward. I'm curious whether anyone has incountered the "go about each other" in another context and may have a different interpretation. Lou Vosteen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:38:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 17:38:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: In the ----- Midwinter (was Re: listening; used to be rapturous hush) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, Arthur Munisteri wrote: > I know that this is not what the thread(s) is about, but I can't help > mentioning that when I saw "Robin Hayden" and "rapturous hush" > in the same heading I could think only of the occasion when her > dance In the Deep Midwinter was done at Pinewoods (recently; last Is that the same dance as In the Bleak Midwinter? (Which is the hymn that when sung on winter Sunday nights during my youth in Michigan always seemed to bring on a snowstorm that would close the schools on Monday...) Susie Lorand now in Princeton, NJ, where it almost never snows anymore, alas--but i can still digress from any topic... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 14:58:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:57:20 -0400 From: Torbin Zimmerman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3756EC31.14C1B37-AT- mail.interlog.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Priscilla Burrage said, in part:
  
When you use the terms 'right shoulder' and 'turn to the left,' you are
teaching them to think of themselves -- alone in this mass of bodies.
When you use the terms 'up,' 'down,' 'woman's side,''hey across the set,'
you are teaching them that they are part of a set, a group of social
dancers interacting together.
Dancing in a set time and space are used harmoniously always makes a magic moment for me. While this important and thoughtful tread has focused on educating/calling for the unskilled, musically- or rhythmically-challenged individual ECD dancer, there's also the problem of helping people improve dancing with their partner, their minor set, and the major set. I'd like to hear your thoughts and experiences. Start a new thread?

Pat Ruggiero said, in part:
  

My husband and I are also Scottish dancers.  I've noticed that when several
Scottish dancers are present in a small English group, the sets get wider
and the dancing becomes more expansive as dancers begin fully to dance out
the musical phrase.
Cramped sets where it's impossible to dance expansively (lovely term, thanks) and fully to the music is a pet peeve of mine. Maybe we ought to import Scottish dancers. Or is there another way?

Torbin Zimmerman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 16:36:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 19:36:31 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing to the beat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 11:45 AM -0700 6/3/99, paul/victoria bestock wrote: >Now how do we motivate them to do it? Communicate our joy, and our welcome to them. And foster the Vicki Bestocks who can help them over the hurdles. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 18:36:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 21:35:33 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dancing to the beat To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906032136_MC2-7818-ABC7-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks, Vicky. What a great posting--inspiring and full of useful information. The insight that "... what we mean by dancing on the beat is FINISHING a movement on the beat. " is alone worth the price of my Internet service! In describing Maggie's victory over her learning and other disabilities, Vicky noted that "....She took my class for two full years, dancing 45 minutes a day, 4 days a week. " We callers/teachers need to find time and private space and create a supportive envinronment at our merely once a week dances (classes??) to help our similarly challenged but highly motiveated dancers, for their own sake and that of the other dancers. We also need descriptions of well thought out exercises and techniques that address the kinds of specific deficits Vicky identified.. Surely there are publications containing such material. Any references? (I've used Dalcroze [eurhyhmics] methods with my adult music students very successfully over many years to develop their sense of rhythm-- has anyone used them successfully in the context of ECD?) Have you,Vicky, written out any of your techniques (your mirroring exercises, etc.)? Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Musician, and Caller who on occasion guiltily wishes some folks would take up hiking instead of dancing ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:34:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 20:34:10 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Torbin Zimmerman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37574932.3488.0-AT- jps.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT >>Pat Ruggiero said, in part: >>My husband and I are also Scottish dancers.  I've noticed that when several >>Scottish dancers are present in a small English group, the sets get wider >>and the dancing becomes more expansive as dancers begin fully to dance out >>the musical phrase. >Torbin Zimmerman wrote, in part: >Cramped sets where it's impossible to dance expansively (lovely term, thanks) >and fully to the music is a pet peeve of mine. Maybe we ought to import >Scottish dancers. Or is there another way? > My experience is that if there is more space than is needed the sets tend naturally to expand. At the dances that Nan Evans runs here in Portland, we don't usually have enough dancers to fill the room. Sometimes it is hard to get from one place to another because the set has grown to utilize the space and gotten too big. I don't think it really has to do with Scottish dancers because it happens even if they are not at the dance. Nordlys rehearses in a hall that is very comfortably sized for a circle of 8-10 couples. When we performed at Folklife, the stage was at least 1-1/2 times the width and twice the depth of our rehearsal space. The circles enlarged somewhat from their usual size because there was more space, but not so much that we couldn't get where we needed to be. People were moving better (maybe even ballistically to use Bruces term) and expanding their personal dance space to comfortable limits. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 05:28:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6254d861.2489204b-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Eric wrote: >A phenomenon which has escaped mention so far in this thread >is the strongly synchopated upbeat -- some contradance bands >choose to play some pieces with such a strong and regular >upbeat and so little on the downbeat, that it is really hard >to synchronize oneself with the downbeat... and Norman wrote: >Perhaps the bands that use strong syncopation should be >reminded that they are a DANCE band and not a performance >band. It helps IMMENSELY when the musicians also dance, as >all of ours do. There is nothing wrong with playing contradance music with a strong backbeat (offbeat). Many (including myself, see previous posts a few weeks ago) would say it is preferable and necessary to the dance. "Syncopation" and "upbeat" are both incorrect ways of describing this practice, however. Syncopation (no "h") is when a downbeat happens and the note that started on the previous upbeat is still playing (like in the "Shrewsbury Lasses" or "The Bishop". Upbeat technically means the beat where the conductor's baton is moving up, which is the same beats I referred to above as backbeats or offbeats, but in dance music, it usually specifically means the one at the end of the measure. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 05:29:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:28:28 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <889a5d58.2489206c-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emily wrote: >Helping my musician to get free of the notes would be a new >topic for discussion here. and I wrote: >kick the music stand over. I've done it. It works wonders. which touched off some interesting comments. Long before I played the concertina or the hammered dulcimer or the banjo or the guitar or the recorder, I was a classically trained cellist (I suppose I still am), and I have the greatest respect for music stands. The main point of my controversial suggestion was to point out that musicians often don't realize they know a tune better than they think. We've all heard the saying, "If you can hum a tune, you can play it" and it's largely true. There may be tricky passaages or confusingly similar bits that bear looking at even after you know how the tune goes, but after playing most ECD tunes a few times, the music should serve a "reference" purpose rather than be considered a constant source of new information. If a caller kicked over my music stand, I would probably react the same way Carl did: >I can't imagine that being received well (to put it politely). or Paul: >I'll second that, Carl. What happened (and it was last Summer) was that I was one of two musicians playing at an informal dance/picnic sort of affair. There was no question that the other musician was less experienced than I and looked to me for guidance. After we had played through a simple tune (maybe "Come, Let's Be Merry") enough times I told him he didn't need the music any more, but he was reluctant to part with it. If I had a free hand, I would have simply closed his (actually, *my*) cop of Barnes, but they were both strapped into a concertina, so I used a free foot. The effect was just as I'd hoped. He knew the tune well enough to continue, his phrasing improved, and he learned something about music stands. Sorry if I upset anybody. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 07:56:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:53:05 +0000 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3757E851.37D429B5-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <394906e7.2487208d-AT- aol.com> The thread about talking on the dance floor interests me a great deal, enough so that I will spring into the conversation, even though I am not a subscriber--I'm just eavesdropping on my husband's subscription. As one who has the chance to dance or call only occasionally, and a dancer who also began with Scottish country dancing, I too am annoyed with talking during the talk-through and/or walk-through--but I treasure that scene in *Pride and Prejudice* where Elizabeth and Darcy converse, to their mutual dissatisfaction. For purposes of the current discussion, a look at that scene shows that talking during the dance was not only permitted, but expected: "They stood for some time without speaking a word; and she began to imagine that their silence was to last through the two dances, and at first was resolved not to break it; till suddenly fancing that it would be the greater punishment to her partner to oblige him to talk, she made some slight observation on the dance. He replied, and was again silent. After a pause of some minutes she addressed him a second time with, "It is *your* turn to say something now, Mr. Darcy. *I* talked about the dance, and *you* ought to make some kind of remark on the size of the room, or the number of couples." He smiled, and assured her that whatever she wished him to say should be said. "Very well.--That reply will do for the present.--Perhaps by and by I may observe that private balls are much pleasanter than public ones.--But *now* we may be silent." "Do you talk by rule, then, while you are dancing?" "Sometimes. One must speak a little, you know. It would look odd to be entirely silent for half an hour together...." Please excuse the asterisks, which I have used where JA has italics. But this passage demonstrates, to me at least, that talking during the dance was common enough in its occurrence and content, even, that Elizabeth (surely the most attractive person in all of literature!) could make fun of the cliched remarks that talking dancers used. Expectations have changed, of course, and we clearly do not need to entertain our partners with cliched remarks. But witty and amusing remarks can add great delight to the experience of dancing, as long as they do not detract from learning and performing the dance. Perhaps Darcy should have the ultimate word: "I would by no means suspend any pleasure of yours." Susan Meredith Burt -- Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 08:34:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 11:35:21 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: In the ----- Midwinter (was Re: listening; used to be rapturous hush) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990604153428.JHYW11709-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 3 Jun 99, Susie wrote: > Is that the same dance as In the Bleak Midwinter? Yes, indeed. I knew that Deep didn't sound quite right, but cold sounded worse & I couldn't think of bleak. Thanks, Susie, & sorry, Robin, to have botched the name. Cheers, Art ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:03:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:00:16 +0000 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3757F810.1737B04F-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <889a5d58.2489206c-AT- aol.com> The thread on weaning musicians from reading interests me for several reasons: I've been playing primarily for ECD for several years, also play some Irish session music and the occational contra. I enjoy playing and I feel I am carrying on a family tradition (the fiddle I play was my grandfather's; he got it from his father, who got it from an uncle--all fiddlers). The family eye disease leading to blindness somewhere in our seventies is starting to affect my ability to read music from standard sources and I want to be able to enjoy playing when I no longer can see. Any practical hints more skilled musicians can offer will be welcome. (While I have accidentially knocked over my stand and have had the wind change the page, neither of those experiences actually helped play for dancing!) I have learned tunes in three ways: from music, by ear, and by reading the fingers of a fiddler, mandolin player, or (surprisingly) a pianist. I find it very hard to play tunes I learned in one of these ways in one of the others. Tunes learned by ear never match the printed version the rest of the band is following. Even when I know the tunes I play from written music exceptionally well I still refer to the music, else I find myself losing the B part on the 15th repetition or wandering off to a similar but different tune. I was trained as a child in classical (or perhaps more properly baroque) violin. That training leads to constant vibrato, some variation in tempo, uniformity (or smooth, gradual change) of dynamic, and careful following of written decoration and bowing. Playing in chamber groups and in orchestras I learned how to follow written music while watching other musicians and a conductor. I had no training in any kind of improvisation. When I started playing for dances I needed to learn how to keep the tempo strict, vary the dynamics (the "drops and raises" sometimes talked about in the fiddle literature) to give a pulse to the music, use vibrato for specific emphasis, and vary the bowing and decoration to add interest to the tune through several repetitions. Instead of watching a conductor I learned to watch the formation and feet of the dancers and to look for signals from the caller. While I can write harmony parts and counter melodies at this point, I still haven't learned how to improvise them on the fly. As others have noted, ECD musicians are expected to be literate. Programs need to be varied based on the number and ability of the dancers who show up. The tunes themselves tend to be in keys more familiar to the classical musician than the folk musician (D minor is a remnant of lute antecedants, G minor, F, Bb, Eb, F minor, C, C minor and A appear as well as the standard fiddle keys of D and G). They often have tricky accidentals (Chelmsford Assemby's B music), odd key changes (The Installation), unusual rhythm (The Bishop, Shrewsbury Lasses, Jenny Pluck Pears) and sometimes peculiar time signatures (3/2, 12/8, 9/8, 2/2, 2/4, 3/4, 4/4, 6/8 all appear). Part of this is what makes ECD musically more interesting than forms of dancing which use only reels. Very good contra dance musicians frequently can't play ECD. Classical musicians usually need to loosen up a bit for ECD to sound right. Watching the dancers and watching the music need not be incompatable. For most musicians I think it is more important to do some dancing than it is to leave the written music behind. -- Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:34:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:31:11 -0400 From: c moulton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking Back at Balls: Your First To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003301beaea7$a9098f20$3f9ac28e-AT- spruce> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <19990531182943.55354.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> >Think back, if you > will, and remember your first ball. If the memories are too good to keep to > yourselves, please share. ooh, what a good idea..... My first was the Hartford Ball in Connecticut 6, maybe 7 years ago. The Ball, sponsored by the performance troupe, Reel Nutmeg, has a reputation for friendly evenings of great dancing. I was petrified before the dance. I'd been dancing less than a year and I was going to the ball as a single woman. I was afraid that I'd mess up and never have partners. It didn't turn out that way. I'd had great preparation from Helen Davenport, Robin Hayden and Mary Jones. We danced, hmmm....maybe Siege of Limerick...doesn't sound right, doesn't really matter. The pianist started to play the tune with a blues rhythm and the room suddenly became very sultry. The dancers responded and we did ECD with a blues note. It was amusing and quite fun. My most vivid memory of the first ball was watching it from the balcony above. This was the first time I'd seen the whole picture. I watched the sets glide through the right and left "hands across" in _Sun Assembly_ and many thoughts flitted by...."reminds me of the dance scene in Gone With the Wind." "This is why timing and phrasing matters." "Callers have it good - they get to see this all of the time. No wonder they gripe about poor style. It is such a rush to see it done well." My first was not my favorite Hartford Ball though. My favorite was a few years later. I'd moved to New Mexico by then and had returned to New England for a visit. I went to the ball with three friends whom I had introduced to ECD. The band was "Pleasures of the Town" whose members are also friends and knew I would get to see lots of people that I'd hadn't seen for quite a while. I felt like Eliza Doolittle that night...my friends had learned to waltz while I was away. reminiscing, deaun moulton waterloo, ontario ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:39:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 12:36:18 -0400 From: c moulton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: talking dancers in Jane Austen To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <003901beaea8$5faf1100$3f9ac28e-AT- spruce> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <394906e7.2487208d-AT- aol.com> <3757E851.37D429B5-AT- sun.iwu.edu> Susan Burt writes: > Expectations have changed, of course, and we clearly do not need to > entertain our partners with cliched remarks. But witty and amusing > remarks can add great delight to the experience of dancing, as long as > they do not detract from learning and performing the dance. Perhaps > Darcy should have the ultimate word: "I would by no means suspend any > pleasure of yours." From my point of view as merely one of the mass of dancers, I wonder what is the etiquette for dancing with a complete stranger? Aren't those cliched remarks still useful? I must admit to being quite tempted to use Elizabeth's quip to one particular partner. I had asked a well-known and respected member of the dancing community to join me in a set of Up with Aily. He did a very good job of ignoring me during the dance except for the moment when he evidenced surprise that I actually arrived in 2nd woman's place ON TIME! A delicate use of just one or two of those cute phrases during the course of the dance would have softened or even eliminated the snub. Sure, no one takes them seriously, but they do at least create an interaction. And what about those "pleasures of yours?" Darcy, of course, was being ironic, but the question is a real one. If I've traveled (and I have to travel) to a dance I want to *dance* as much as possible. If I've traveled to, say, Amherst or the Hartford Ball, I want to dance AND talk to old friends. It may be that the only time I get a chance to talk to an old friend is in the set. What is the etiquette then? The answer "sit out the dance" doesn't really work since the first thing an old friend is likely to say is "would you like to dance." It seems to me that a balance is required between the attention due a friend and the needs of the caller/set. While I can understand the frustration of the caller, I can also suggest that some toleration on everyone's part. The dance is a social event and not a classroom, after all. I have recently joined an RSCD group. I find the classroom approach to have its value - certainly the dancers and the dances are more disciplined. I suspect that my English dancing has improved from the Scottish experience. I accept that ECD may improve the overall performance quality of the dancing if it used a stricter teaching discipline, but I think the regimentation would counteract one of the nice things about ECD - the importance of interaction. opining from the back benches, deaun moulton waterloo, ontario ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:40:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 09:28:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Something I've found helpful in "getting off the paper" (sounds like a stage in the life of a puppy) is to mentally go over the tune while falling asleep at night or waking up in the morning, visualizing the fingering as I do so, and going very slowly as befits the drowsy time. Something slips into the subconscious as I do that, and the tune seems to be better internalized. I'm still not much on improvising melody, but then as a guitar player I find it more useful to improvise counterpoint, bass lines, and ornaments. Standing next to a great musician like Pam Carson or Paul Oviatt is also enormously useful. Still, everyone has their own way. The aforementioned Pam Carson, for example, is a superb improvisor, provided she has the music in front of her. She can see the tune and think a hundred variations -- but she has to be seeing the tune, as she finds memorization very difficult. Different strokes for different folks, as we said in the sixties. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:14:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:41:26 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Talking dancers To: English Dance Message-ID: <004f01beaec7$007b2d30$4c98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Deaun Moulton wrote: >I have recently joined an RSCDS group. I find the classroom approach to have its value - certainly the dancers and the dances are more disciplined. I suspect that my English dancing has improved from the Scottish experience. I accept that ECD may improve the overall performance quality of the dancing if it used a stricter teaching discipline, but I think the regimentation would counteract one of the nice things about ECD - the importance of interaction. How recent? Have you been to a dance party yet? You'll find nobody is looking at your feet or watching your covering. You're there to dance and socialize. Better yet, attend a ball. With good dancers and the right musicians, a powerful strathspey will blow the top of your head off. You want interaction? You'll get it, most definitely. Have you heard the phrase by which Scottish dancers describe their dancing? Controlled Abandon. You'll know it when it happens to you. (Actually, before I began doing SCD I used to say that English dancers danced with Controlled Passion.) I can cheerfully say that the RSCDS classes improved my ECD in a way that satisfied my desire to dance better. Not all would agree that Scottish "improves" ECD; Scottish posture is more erect than English, a style many ECDers would find objectionable, but there's no doubt that attention to phrasing and covering improves one's dancing. Pat Ruggiero -- who is greatly looking forward to a weekend of SCD and socializing, with a picnic and dance hosted by the Charlottesville group on Saturday, and a brunch and dance hosted by the Richmond group on Sunday....and no one will be looking at my feet.... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:14:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 15:51:39 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: In your sleep To: English Dance Message-ID: <005001beaec7$011e9920$4c98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul Stamler wrote: >Something I've found helpful in "getting off the paper" (sounds like a stage in the life of a puppy) is to mentally go over the tune while falling asleep at night or waking up in the morning, visualizing the fingering as I do so, and going very slowly as befits the drowsy time. Something slips into the subconscious as I do that, and the tune seems to be better internalized That's how I learn dances, both for dancing and for teaching. When folks ask how I learn dances, I tell them "in my sleep." I can tell by the look on their face that they find that to be a really helpful explanation....... Pat ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 13:14:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 16:01:26 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing expansively To: English Dance Message-ID: <005101beaec7$01bc11a0$4c98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andy Peterson wrote: >My experience is that if there is more space than is needed the sets tend naturally to expand. At the dances that Nan Evans runs here in Portland, we don't usually have enough dancers to fill the room. Sometimes it is hard to get from one place to another because the set has grown to utilize the space and gotten too big. I don't think it really has to do with Scottish dancers because it happens even if they are not at the dance. That is an example of poor dancing, of any sort. >Nordlys rehearses in a hall that is very comfortably sized for a circle of 8-10 couples. When we performed at Folklife, the stage was at least 1-1/2 times the width and twice the depth of our rehearsal space. The circles enlarged somewhat from their usual size because there was more space, but not so much that we couldn't get where we needed to be. People were moving better (maybe even ballistically to use Bruces term) and expanding their personal dance space to comfortable limits. That is an example of good dancing, of any sort. And I wrote: >My husband and I are also Scottish dancers. I've noticed that when several Scottish dancers are present in a small English group, the sets get wider and the dancing becomes more expansive as dancers begin fully to dance out the musical phrase.> The experiences to which I refer occur in the same halls with approximately the same number of people. Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 14:53:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 17:52:53 -0400 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Cognoscenti: Enchance your Vacation with Fine ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990604174355.00a27da0-AT- 209.183.254.10> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Vacationers: Washington DC -- a great place to vacation, DANCE and enjoy the folk arts. Travel experts indicate that Washington, DC is at the top of the list as a vacation destination for many folks this year. As the capitol of the country, DC certainly is a fine place to visit. There are many monuments, museums and other attractions that are FREE and are world-class sights. Not to be missed when visiting the DC area are our weekly English Country Dances. Dedicated callers, musicians and volunteers make sure that our dances will be running, non-stop, throughout the Summer. ECDs are conducted every Wednesday evening from 8:00 to 10:30 in the Glen Echo Town Hall, conveniently located in the North West Suburbs, just inside the DC beltway. (See links to info, map/directions, below.) Subscribers to the ECD listserv will recognize many old friends and acquaintances who will be calling and playing for the ECDs this Summer; many serve as staff members at dance camps around the U.S. We DC-area dancers are truly lucky to have available regular talents who are instantly recognizable to the cognoscenti. Superb callers such as Brad Sayler, Rich Galloway, Diane Schmit, Stephanie Smith, and Nan Evans will be accompanied by fine musicians, a few of which are pianist Liz Donaldson, oboist Judy Kleppel, Alexander Mitchell on fiddle, Marty Taylor (flute and concertina), along with a few surprises, e.g., bassoonist Bruce Edwards. One could dance virtually every night of the week in the metro DC/Baltimore area. Lovers of the folk arts should not miss the Folklore Society's annual, free, Washington Folk Festival at Glen Echo, June 6 to 7 (that's this weekend, folks). The Smithsonian will be sponsoring a marvelous Folklife Festival, June 23-June 27 and June 30-July 4. Featured will be contra dance callers and bands from New Hampshire. More info is available on the web or through your humble servant (moi): FSGW ECD dance events, including program: http://www.just.net/~roger/events.html More from FSGW: http://www.fsgw.org Smithsonian Folklife Festival: http://www.si.edu/folklife/fest99/announce.htm -- Roger _ _ ________________ _ ____________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com _/_ www.just.net/~roger Dancer-AT- exist.com _______ (/____________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 04 Jun 1999 21:03:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 00:00:41 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 1s cast down, 2s move up To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990605.000049.-842779.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This is most common when the 2s do not move up at the same time as their partner, such as in THE BISHOP or MAD ROBIN and and interesting & dramatic move can be made. Pardon my lack of timeliness- I've been awaya and am just starting to catch up with ECD mail. Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Sat, 29 May 1999 00:38:36 -0400 Michael S Franch writes: >A new thing (to me) has appeared in the last year or two, in which the >2s >move up by turning, e.g., the man would turn over his left shoulder >to >move to the 1's position. Is this appearing elsewhere? > >Mike Franch >Baltimore > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 05:27:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jkonvalinka-AT- email.msn.com Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 08:26:30 -0400 From: John W Konvalinka Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Flyers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <000c01beaf4e$a61ed160$9aa72399-AT- gwruywzj> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Hi, Susie.. I'll do new LCD English flyers as soon as we have the new info. I'll keep checking the web page, but if you think of it, would you send me an email as soon as there's new info out there. Thanks again for last nite. You did a great job in a wide variety of roles!! Cheers, JK ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ||||||| Please be sure to visit our family web site ||||||||: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jkonvalinka ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 05:28:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 08:28:16 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Paper-trained musician To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "Lawrence N. Stout" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <889a5d58.2489206c-AT- aol.com> <3757F810.1737B04F-AT- sun.iwu.edu> I'm not a musician and I don't play one on TV but..... Lawrence, would it help you if you walked around the house playing tunes you know in your head? Isn't that sort of like walking around singing in order to learn a song? Just a thought - play tunes you like, and then you can progress to learning new melody lines and walking around playing them in various ways to put the tunes in the ol' noggin. Just like learning the classical stylings you mention, you might have to do some exercises to get past the paper music. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 07:24:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JoAnne Rawls Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: In your sleep To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990605142408.23170.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Pat Ruggiero wrote, in reply to Paul Stamler: >That's how I learn dances, both for dancing and for teaching. When folks >ask how I learn dances, I tell them "in my sleep." I can tell by the look >on their face that they find that to be a really helpful explanation....... > >Pat > How encouraging! I do that too. Now I can deny being obsessive, and just say that I'm learning the dances! Thanks, Pat :-) JoAnne Rawls Dancing in my sleep in Newport News, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 13:30:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 16:27:22 -0400 From: c moulton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Talking dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <002601beaf91$d1cc52e0$fd9ac28e-AT- spruce> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <004f01beaec7$007b2d30$4c98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> > Deaun Moulton: I have recently joined an RSCDS group. I find the classroom approach to > have > Pat Ruggiero: How recent? dm: last september PR: Have you been to a dance party yet? dm: yes. PR: You'll find nobody is > looking at your feet or watching your covering. You're there to dance and > socialize. Better yet, attend a ball. With good dancers and the right > musicians, a powerful strathspey will blow the top of your head off. dm: I have not had this experience yet. I had such experiences within a year of my first English Dance though. The dancers at the Scottish parties that I attended this year knew that I was a beginner. I've had people comment that my footwork was surprisingly good "for a beginner." My partner and I were actually asked to leave the floor before one dance because it was too complicated for us. I don't think that has happened at any English Dance I've ever attended. PR: You > want interaction? You'll get it, most definitely. Have you heard the > phrase by which Scottish dancers describe their dancing? Controlled > Abandon. You'll know it when it happens to you. dm: Well, I certainly haven't seen anything I would call abandon. Rather I find the Scottish dancers to be more contained than English dancers but I haven't seen very many of them, so I'll have to reserve judgment. It must be fun, lots of people keep doing it. deaun moulton waterloo, ontario ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:07:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990608154856.7023.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Yes, these are connected topics. This is a dance that was reconstructed by Christine Helwig a few years ago and has become deservedly popular throughout the English dance community, and as happens, has developed local variations. At one of the recent balls I attended (New York?), I had a disagreement with someone over the opening figure which has the first man stepping left and then right (or is it right and then left) but in any case, as I remembered it, the two women join in on the second step(into a joined hands lead around the second man, then all that repeats with second man). The other person believed that in the original only the men moved on the stepping. I couldn't be certain that the way we did it in New Haven wasn't just our local folk-processed variant, so when I was visiting Christine on Sunday, since she has conveniently relocated just down the road from where I am staying, I took the opportunity to ask her specifically about this question. She told me that the correct figure is for the man to step first, and for the women to join in on the second step. I also mentioned to her that I had noticed (and heard it said) that in some communities, that stepping had been entirely replaced by having the man honor the two women before starting the circle around. Christine said that according to the original source it was quite clear that the man was supposed to finish honoring the women before the music began. So for those who care, there it is from the source: man steps in one direction, then man and two women step together in time in the other. Groups may prefer to dance it in the way they are accustomed to at this point, but this is Christine's interpretation of the historical original, and in my view is particularly beautiful in the way one individual initiates the movement and then the others join in in perfect synchrony to complete it. I know all will be happy to know that Christine is doing well in her new digs, and hard at work on dance reconstructing. I have been encouraging her to get email so that she can join this list herself (and like the rest of us have another distraction to keep us from doing productive work), but she has been hesitant to start learning another new thing on the computer while she is still struggling with having switched over from Wordperfect to Word (she claims at Gene Murrow's suggestion, which just goes to show that even Gene is capable of spectacularly bad judgment on occasion). However, another one of her near neighbors now is a computer type and I have confidence that he will have her networked soon and she'll be joining us. Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 16:31:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 19:30:22 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906081930_MC2-78AB-DBE2-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Beware the thin ice here! (gee, I'm starting to sound like my favorite stickler for accuracy, Julia Sutton)... Barbara Ruth commented on the variations in the stepping at the beginning of "Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do!" a dance Christine Helwig reconstructed and published in her "Purcell Playford and the English Country Dance" collection. Barabara wrote: >when I was visiting Christine on Sunday... She told me that the correct figure is for the man to step first, and for the women to join in on the second step. I also mentioned to her that I had noticed (and heard it said) that in some communities, that stepping had been entirely replaced by having the man honor the two women before starting the circle around. Christine said that according to the original source it was quite clear that the man was supposed to finish honoring the women before the music began. So for those who care, there it is from the source: man steps in one direction, then man and two women step together in time in the other.< The dance first appeared in the "2nd Part" of Playford's 9th Edition in 1696, to the tune "Epsom Wells" attributed to Purcell (a whole other story). It was reprinted identically in editions 11, 12, and 13, then dropped (Kitty Keller verified this for me). Here are the instructions from Playford for the first figure, verbatim: "The 1. man take the 2. wo. and his wo. by the hand and turn them round 'til he comes into the 2. wo. place, then all hands, then lead them both round the 2. man into the 2. wo. place 'til they come all square; the 2. man turn the 2. wo. 'til he comes into the 1. man's place, all abreast, then lead the 2. we. round the 1. man as he stands 'til he comes into the 1. wo. place improper, all square as before. This to the first strain played twice." No mention of honoring, of setting, of stepping, or who does what to whom when, which is *entirely typical* of the generic instructions of the period. The actual steps used would have depended on who was dancing, when ,where, for whom, who was watching, and what the dancers had learned and what they had recently been drinking. All the jazz we do is our modern invention. I, and very likely other callers including Christine (though her printed instructions are rightfully spare and make no mention), came up with the idea of starting on the left foot because the circle moves to the left after 2 setting steps, and because I believe many of the 17th C. dances might well have started on the left foot as many of their 16th C. antecedents did (Wa' works MUCH better starting left foot on most of the figures). I also have been suggesting that the 2 women reflect the movement by setting to the right on the 2nd bar because I think it looks cool and feels right (I don't recall what I was drinking at the time). So... if you're looking for authentication from an "original" source to settle conflicts, fuhggedabboudit (as we say here in NY). There is no printed source describing the dance as I just described it and as many people now do it. [P.S. As for recommending M'soft Word... I first saw Bill Gates at the 1976 "World Altair Convention" in Albuquerque, NM just after he started a small 2-person outfit called Microsoft to sell programs to MITS, the makers of the famous Altair computer. Seemed like a nice kid. I figure he can always use the money.] Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Musician, Caller and one who respects Words... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:22:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 21:21:52 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nice to have a sense of how this setting business came into that dance. In Boston we do it variably, since we don't seem to be able to get the ladies to stand still, most of them not being conscientious about such things, and the sad part of them incessantly having to steal the man's thunder perpetuates itself among the unknowing. > >[P.S. As for recommending M'soft Word... I first saw Bill Gates at the >1976 "World Altair Convention" in Albuquerque, NM just after he started a >small 2-person outfit called Microsoft to sell programs to MITS, the makers >of the famous Altair computer. Seemed like a nice kid. I figure he can >always use the money.] Boy, were you fooled. Hey? Emily L. Ferguson, who does not use Microsoft Products unless she cannot arrange any alternative. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:25:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990609141834.23529.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Gene Murrow wrote: > > Barbara Ruth commented on the variations in the stepping at the beginning > of "Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do!" a dance Christine Helwig reconstructed and > published in her "Purcell Playford and the English Country Dance" > collection. > The dance first appeared in the "2nd Part" of Playford's 9th Edition in > 1696, ETC. > No mention of honoring, of setting, of stepping, or who does what to whom > when, which is *entirely typical* of the generic instructions of the > period. The actual steps used would have depended on who was dancing, when > ,where, for whom, who was watching, and what the dancers had learned and > what they had recently been drinking. > > All the jazz we do is our modern invention. I, and very likely other > callers including Christine (though her printed instructions are rightfully > spare and make no mention), came up with the idea of starting on the left > foot because the circle moves to the left after 2 setting steps, and > because I believe many of the 17th C. dances might well have started on the > left foot as many of their 16th C. antecedents did (Wa' works MUCH better > starting left foot on most of the figures). I also have been suggesting > that the 2 women reflect the movement by setting to the right on the 2nd > bar because I think it looks cool and feels right (I don't recall what I > was drinking at the time). Gene, Thanks for the clarification. In the original conversation that started this line of questioning for me, someone at a ball commented on my joining in on the step right, and I answered that as long as Christine Helwig taught it that way (which I recalled her doing in New Haven), I intended to dance it that way. The response was that Christine wouldn't have taught it that way because it was not part of the original directions. I didn' want to be citing Christine incorrectly, so I took advantage of the opportunity to ask her about it during my visit and received the response I reported. For whatever the cause of her preference, Christine corroborated that she taught the dance starting with the man stepping left, then the man and two ladies stepping right in unison, and that any honor by the man should take place before the stepping. Since you point out that the actual printed directions do not provide historical authenticity for that movement and there is no way for us to now know precisely how it was danced (or whether it was danced precisely the same at all times), I am more than willing to accept both your and Christine's sense of styling as justification for continuing to dance it in the manner described because I think having the man initiate the movement and the ladies receive that motion and express it by joining in, looks and feels gorgeous, and whatever you were drinking at the time you thought it up, you should continue to drink regularly and often, especially when working on dance materials. You just need to stick to the things you know about, like music and dance, and keep away from that computer stuff. >Barabara wrote: Speaking of variations I rather like that one for it's dance echoes. Would it be pretentious for me to adopt it as a nickname? Bar(a)bara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 08:13:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 07:28:37 +0100 From: mdevlin-AT- teleport.com (Mary Devlin) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Join us in the beautiful Oregon Cascades for a Labor Day weekend of English country dance, ceilidh, rapper and contradance at the Portland Country Dance Community's Dance and Music Weekend at Suttle Lake, September 3-6, 1999. Staff include (from the UK) caller John Turner with Belshazzar's Feast, Dave Macemon teaching rapper, and caller Marian Rose with Grand Picnic. Plus Warren Argo doing sound -- and his must-be-there sound workshop -- and Annie Johnston's gourmet cooking. For more information and to print a registration form, please visit the PCDC Suttle Lake Dance Camp webpage at http://www.aone.com/~kluberg/suttle.html Camp is filled by lottery and the lottery deadline is July 1. Hope to see you at Suttle! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:02:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:01:07 -0400 From: Daniel Walkowitz Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990609140107.00d4a230-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT While we are Wa'-ing, as it were... Gene, when you called the dance this weekend (I think it was you), you called 'balnce back' and later, 'lead partner away'. Half the crowd balanced back taking hands, everyone knew to do so leading away. Christine's reconstruction calls to balance back without hands, which seems to me to make sense, especially as the two side steps around the square would be/are most awkward with hands. Since the dance community seems to drift into holding hands on balances back, I think the 'no hands' should be called. On a related note, many will recall the discussion at this time last year about documenting ECD, and especially some of the older stalwarts of the dance community such as Christine. I am pleased to report that Stephanie Smith for the Smithsonian Folklife Center and I will interviewing Christine on videotape this Friday as the first part of our ECD Video Documentary Project. The Project will continue later in the weekend to videotape at the Fried-for-All in Lenox, Massachusetts. We will then edit a short (10 min.) demonstration tape to be used in major fund-raising efforts with not-for-profit foundations. Incidentaly, the Project also expects to videotape at Pinewoods at the end of August (at the end of E&A week and the beginning of ECD week). Danny Walkowitz At 07:30 PM 6/8/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Beware the thin ice here! (gee, I'm starting to sound like my favorite >stickler for accuracy, Julia Sutton)... > >Barbara Ruth commented on the variations in the stepping at the beginning >of "Wa' Is Me, What Mun I Do!" a dance Christine Helwig reconstructed and >published in her "Purcell Playford and the English Country Dance" >collection. > >Barabara wrote: > >>when I was visiting Christine on Sunday... She told me that the correct >figure is for the man to step first, and for the women to join in on >the second step. I also mentioned to her that I had noticed (and heard it >said) that in some communities, that stepping had been >entirely replaced by having the man honor the two women before starting the >circle around. Christine said that according to the >original source it was quite clear that the man was supposed to finish >honoring the women before the music began. So for those who >care, there it is from the source: man steps in one direction, then man and >two women step together in time in the other.< > >The dance first appeared in the "2nd Part" of Playford's 9th Edition in >1696, to the tune "Epsom Wells" attributed to Purcell (a whole other >story). It was reprinted identically in editions 11, 12, and 13, then >dropped (Kitty Keller verified this for me). Here are the instructions >from Playford for the first figure, verbatim: > >"The 1. man take the 2. wo. and his wo. by the hand and turn them round >'til he comes into the 2. wo. place, then all hands, then lead them both >round the 2. man into the 2. wo. place 'til they come all square; the 2. >man turn the 2. wo. 'til he comes into the 1. man's place, all abreast, >then lead the 2. we. round the 1. man as he stands 'til he comes into the >1. wo. place improper, all square as before. This to the first strain >played twice." > >No mention of honoring, of setting, of stepping, or who does what to whom >when, which is *entirely typical* of the generic instructions of the >period. The actual steps used would have depended on who was dancing, when >,where, for whom, who was watching, and what the dancers had learned and >what they had recently been drinking. > >All the jazz we do is our modern invention. I, and very likely other >callers including Christine (though her printed instructions are rightfully >spare and make no mention), came up with the idea of starting on the left >foot because the circle moves to the left after 2 setting steps, and >because I believe many of the 17th C. dances might well have started on the >left foot as many of their 16th C. antecedents did (Wa' works MUCH better >starting left foot on most of the figures). I also have been suggesting >that the 2 women reflect the movement by setting to the right on the 2nd >bar because I think it looks cool and feels right (I don't recall what I >was drinking at the time). > >So... if you're looking for authentication from an "original" source to >settle conflicts, fuhggedabboudit (as we say here in NY). There is no >printed source describing the dance as I just described it and as many >people now do it. > >[P.S. As for recommending M'soft Word... I first saw Bill Gates at the >1976 "World Altair Convention" in Albuquerque, NM just after he started a >small 2-person outfit called Microsoft to sell programs to MITS, the makers >of the famous Altair computer. Seemed like a nice kid. I figure he can >always use the money.] > >Gene Murrow >EC Dancer, Musician, Caller and one who respects Words... > > Daniel J. Walkowitz Director, Metropolitan Studies, and Professor of History 285 Mercer Street, rm 703, New York University New York, New York 10003-6607 tel. (212) 998-8091 fax (212) 995-4371 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:43:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 20:15:21 -0400 From: sol weber Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ROOM AVAILABLE To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990609.202551.-152113.3.solweber-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Room available for this wkend at Fried For All If you are going, I hope you enjoy this weekend's FRIED FOR ALL at Lenox, Mass. I have a ROOM RESERVED but at the last minute can't make it. It's too late to cancel, but the new owner, Stan Rosen (who sounded quite pleasant) said anyone else can have it at the same rate previously arranged (which is lower than current rates). Just ask for it. First come, first served. The DETAILS: It's the Hampton Terrace, 91 Walker St, in Lenox right next door to the dance location. "Gracious Georgian colonial, continental breakfast included, doubles, $65/night + tax" 413-637-1773. Mention the phone conversation between Sol Weber and Stan Rosen on Wed night. (He tells me the place is otherwise full.) INDUCEMENT: Anyone who helps me out in this way (helping me get my deposit back) is entitled to either a copy of my rounds book or the CD or tape. ++++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" ++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) ++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, ++++++ and assorted musical fun; solweber-AT- JUNO.com +++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. + ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 23:59:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: Philippe.Callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:57:38 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <375F61E2.414E1315-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <19990608154856.7023.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> I learnt Wa'Is me, What Mun I Do at Pinewoods 1997, when Gene called it at an evening dance during English week. I immediately fell in love with it and introduced it in Belgium and Holland during the 97/98 season. People really seem to like it. I want to point out that Christine's notation in her Purcell book is not very precise. Did she do that on purpose? It does not mention that you start on the left foot and it does not mention either that the ladies join in on bar 2. That night at Pinewoods, that certainly didn't happen; only the first man set (and that's how I teach it now - he sets on the left foot to his partner, on the right foot to the second lady and having invited them, they circle three etc.) Gene, could you give us the original text for the B-part of this dance, too? I am anxious to read it. I always wondered how Christine interpreted the text in the Dancing Master. I really miss the original text in her book! Does anyone know whether this dance (maybe under a different title?) was published by Walsh? And what about the tune? Attributed to Purcell? What does that mean? Philippe Callens Antwerp, Belgium ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:05:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:04:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Jacqueline Schwab and Mary Lea and Earl Gaddis at BACDS Fall Weekend To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JC7XBRZKIQ8WY9M6-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- I'm pleased to announce the Bay Area Country Dance Society Fall Dance Weekend, October 15-17, 1999, in Aptos, California (just south of Santa Cruz). I'm co-managing the camp this year with ECD subscriber Vanessa Schnatmeier, so take this opportunity to toot our horn. Programmer Jim Saxe has assembled a herd of wonderful staff this year. We are lucky to have three-quarters of Bare Necessities - Jacqueline Schwab (who will lead ECD as well as playing), Mary Lea (who will conduct a band workshop) and Earl Gaddis. Other notable staff include Lisa Greenleaf (Contras, Squares, Northwest Morris, possibly some English), Roger Diggle (Contras, Squares, Singing, Caller's Workshop), Jan Elliot (Bloxham Morris, Helmsley Longsword), the ContraBandits, and Craig Johnson. For lots more information, check the recently-updated web pages at http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/fw -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 09:38:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:30:23 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fw: camp jobs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990610.123029.-543887.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: CDSS Camps/Steve Howe To: camp-AT- cdss.org Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:54:16 -0400 Subject: camp jobs Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990610155416.006ee6c4-AT- crocker.com> Friends, CDSS is still in need of sound operators and life guards. If you are interested, please contact Steve Howe ASAP. Please help me spread the word. We need a sound operator at the following: American Dance & Music Week at Pinewoods English & American Dance Week at Pinewoods English Dance Week at Pinewoods These are paid positions. We need a Life Guard at the following: Dance Week at Buffalo Gap Family Week at Buffalo Gap These are full scholarship positions. We need an assistant Life Guard at the following: Family Week at Buffalo Gap Family Week at Ogontz These are partial scholarship positions. Thank you Steve Howe Program Coordinator +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ As of Lottery on May 24, 1999, several weeks still have space. The following weeks are full: Family Week at Pinewoods, long waitlist Family Week at Ogontz, short waitlist Family Week at Buffalo Gap, short waitlist Campers' Week at Pinewoods, long waitlist Storytellers Course, short waitlist English Dance Week, growing waitlist English & American Dance Week, short wait list English Dance Musicians Course, looking for pianists and fiddlers +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Please see our Web page http://www.cdss.org/, updated April 29, 1999, with details on the 1999 camp season. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Country Dance and Song Society office-AT- cdss.org 132 Main St camp-AT- cdss.org PO Box 338 sales-AT- cdss.org Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 news-AT- cdss.org 413-268-7426x3 http://www.cdss.org/ fax: 413-268-7471 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 20:56:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 23:58:46 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906110356.XAA16336-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT 0000,0000,FF00> Gene, could you give us the original text for the B-part of this dance, > too? I am anxious to read it. I always wondered how Christine > interpreted the text in the Dancing Master. I really miss the original > text in her book! Here's the entire dance, precisely as given in the Dancing Master: The 1. man take the 2. wo. and his own wo. by the hands, and turn them round till he comes into the 2. wo. place, then all hands, then lead them both round the 2. man into the 2. wo. place till they come all square; the 2. man turn the 2. wo. improper till he comes into the 1. man's place improper, all square as before. This to the first Strain played twice. The two men and the two we. fall back face to face, then slip face to face the man below and the we. above, then each man lead his wo. to the wall, and all four cast off singly face to face, then cross over in each other's places and turn face to face; then 1. man meet the 2. wo. and back again, and the other do the same; then all hands round till the 1. cu. come into the 2. cu. place. > Does anyone know whether this dance (maybe under a 0000,0000,FF00> different title?) was published by Walsh? According to Tom Cook's index it was not. Walsh did publish "Epsom Wells," which is a completely different dance to the same tune. Interestingly, "Epsom Wells" and "Wa is me, what mun I do!" are published on consecutive pages in the Dancing Master. The tune is printed twice. They first appeared 1696 in "The Second Part of the Dancing Master," which is an addendum to the 9th edition of volume 1 of the Dancing Master. In an introduction to that addendum, Henry Playford states that it contains "plain Directions for the Newest and Best _Dances_, most of the made by Mr. _Beveredge_, and the rest by other Eminent Masters." ("_" represents text italicized in original.) With that cosmic alignment of stars (Henry Purcell, Mr. Beveredge, Henry Playford and Christine Helwig) no wonder it's such a great dance. Rich Galloway who has finally caught up to date in reading the ECD list. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 22:35:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 01:33:13 -0400 From: eclectic-AT- mit.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Shakespearean Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, sca-dance-AT- andrew.cmu.edu, RENDANCE-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, folks. I got the following note recently, addressed to my vintage-dance list, and am forwarding it to you instead: >From: Dave Cross >To: vintage-dance-AT- world.std.com >Subject: Shakespeare Festival > >Hi, >Our English dept. would like to incorporate dances from the Shakesperean >era. Ideas please? My response so far was: >It would be helpful to know: > > a) where you're located > b) what degree of authenticity you wish to achieve > c) how you want to make use of the dances -- as performance, or as social >event? Participatory? Demonstration? > d) the age and experience levels of your prospective dancers > e) the NUMBER of your prospective dancers -- if there are only 2 of them, >then there are different options than if there are 30. > >You might want to take a look at a CD named "Songs and Dances from >Shakespeare" by The Broadside Band, on Saydisc. You may respond privately to Mr Cross, or discuss it on the mailing lists, or reply to me, and I will summarize, at your own various discretions. I'm not sure that there's any point in discussing suitable historic dances without knowing a little more about the context in which they will be put to use, myself, and will be waiting to hear back from Mr. Cross before making any suggestions, but your mileage may vary. --Mike Bergman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:44:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 05:37:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping in "Wa is Me" /visiting with Christine Helwig To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990611123753.2462.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Rich Galloway wrote: > In an introduction to that addendum, Henry Playford states that it > contains "plain Directions for the Newest and Best _Dances_, most > of the made by Mr. _Beveredge_... With that cosmic > alignment of stars (Henry Purcell, Mr. Beveredge, Henry Playford and > Christine Helwig) no wonder it's such a great dance. Don't forget the contributions of Gene Murrow, and whatever he was drinking. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:05:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:56:58 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fwd: Re: Shakespearean dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, sca-dance-AT- andrew.cmu.edu, RENDANCE-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:20:22 -0700 >From: Dave Cross >Reply-To: dgrblu-AT- btigate.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >To: Michael Bergman >Subject: Re: Shakespearean dances > >Here are the answers to some of the questions... >We are located in Bismarck, ND 58501 >Pop. about 50,000 >The students doing the dances are middle level students..7-9 >The class size is about 25-30( english class) >They are holding a Shakespearean Festival and would like to include some >dance from that time period. > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:28:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: BSDieter-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: no subject To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Having a problem with my e-mail. not receiving from your address. Please reenroll me. Many thanks. Lenox week end with Fried was wonderful, by the way. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:10:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:07:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Heyer Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical Midsummer's Eve dance. The three that I came up with were "Upon A Summer's Day," "Mad Robin" (as a reference to Puck), and "Jamaica," -- a bit of a stretch here; the nickname that British sailors used to have for the sun was "Old Jamaica." Can anyone think of any others that might be suitable for such an event? Marian Phillips ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:47:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:42:17 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990613.234219.-849155.1.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT How about "Sun Assembly" On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Heyer writes: >Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter >Solstice," and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have >*summer* solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a >hypothetical Midsummer's Eve dance. > >The three that I came up with were "Upon A Summer's Day," "Mad Robin" >(as a reference to Puck), and "Jamaica," -- a bit of a stretch here; >the nickname that British sailors used to have for the sun was "Old >Jamaica." > >Can anyone think of any others that might be suitable for such an >event? > >Marian Phillips > Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:15:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:22:57 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990614071918.00adb2c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Scott Higgs has written a lively, ebullient dance called "Jump at the Sun." I bet some of the BACDS callers know it. It was good seeing you at Saturday's dance! Cheers, Sharon Green At 08:07 PM 6/13/99 -0700, Heyer wrote: >Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," and >I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* >solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical >Midsummer's Eve dance. > >The three that I came up with were "Upon A Summer's Day," "Mad Robin" (as a >reference to Puck), and "Jamaica," -- a bit of a stretch here; the nickname >that British sailors used to have for the sun was "Old Jamaica." > >Can anyone think of any others that might be suitable for such an event? > >Marian Phillips ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 04:27:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:35:00 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990614072749.00adcd90-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Agh! Where's my brain? (Too much jet lag--it should be terminal by the time we reach London...) You'll also want to dance Chris Sackett & Brooke Friendly's "Puck's Deceit," to the tune Kettle Drum. It's in the November/December 1998 CDSS News. Much love, Sharon At 08:07 PM 6/13/99 -0700, Heyer wrote: >Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," and >I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* >solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical >Midsummer's Eve dance. > >The three that I came up with were "Upon A Summer's Day," "Mad Robin" (as a >reference to Puck), and "Jamaica," -- a bit of a stretch here; the nickname >that British sailors used to have for the sun was "Old Jamaica." > >Can anyone think of any others that might be suitable for such an event? > >Marian Phillips ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:59:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:59:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906141459.JAA20442-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Heyer writes: > > Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical Midsummer's Eve dance. > > The three that I came up with were "Upon A Summer's Day," "Mad Robin" (as a reference to Puck), and "Jamaica," -- a bit of a stretch here; the nickname that British sailors used to have for the sun was "Old Jamaica." > > Can anyone think of any others that might be suitable for such an event? How about "Sun Assembly"? Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:00:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:44:42 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lisa Greenleaf called a nice dance written to the tune of Abbot's Bromley, incorporating steps from The Christmas Revels' reconstruction of the Horn Dance. She called it at a Contra Dance, but it could just as easily fit into an ECD evening, as it has a very smooth and flowing structure. I'm afraid I don't know the actual name or author of the dance. --Mike Bergman >Heyer writes: >> >> Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," >>and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* >>solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical >>Midsummer's Eve dance. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:45:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:45:00 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Railing Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There's a recent choreography done here in Bloomington called "Lord Sun and Lady Moon" that is really pretty. --Mary Railing ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:00:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Heyer Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Conversation <4.1.19990614071918.00adb2c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> with last message <4.1.19990614071918.00adb2c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> I knew there was a reason I was saving all my CDSS newsletters! I found Puck's Deceit -- definitely a choice for a Midsummer's Eve ball. Many thanks to all for the suggestions. Mary, has the choreography for Lord Sun, Lady Moon been published? Who wrote it and what tune is it danced to? Michael, have the steps to the Abbott's Bromley contra been published somewhere? Marian ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:12:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:11:00 -0500 From: Anne Marie Edden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Summer Solstice? To: ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Heyer writes: >> >> Last night I got to dance a really cool dance called "Winter Solstice," >>and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any dances that have *summer* >>solstice-related names, that might be appropriate for a hypothetical >>Midsummer's Eve dance. ***** NOTES from Anne Marie Edden (AEDDEN -AT- GRUSAM) at 6/14/99 12:10 PM Marty Fager wrote a dance to Morpeth Lasses (the tune for the sword dance Ampleforth) called "The Maine Chance" in honor of the popular summer vacation destination that just happened to have been Ted Sanella's home state. It is a lively and complex English Dance with diagonal heys and petronella-like figures. I am sure he would post it, if asked. Annie Edden ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 06:31:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:24:46 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice/Abbot's contra To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <99061509244689-AT- tedcrane.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have in my collection a contra dance written many years ago by Camy Kaynor to the tune of Abbot's Bromely which he called "Abbot's" - I'm not sure if this is the contra in question, but here it is: Abbot's - Camy Kaynor - Improper contra dance A1 Actives Balance, Do si Do & the actives swing A2 with neighbors, balance, do si do & swing neighbor B1 Full Ladies chain B2 Circle left with the _next_ neighbors Circle right with your _originial_ neighbors It's a fun dance with bouncy jigs, played at a moderate tempo. Or with the Abbot's Bromely dance tune as part of the medley. Hope this helps - Pamela Goddard from centrally isolated Ithaca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:57:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 10:54:18 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Summer Solstice/Abbot's contra To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT This *might* be the dance I was thinking of -- if you take the balances as those funny little salutes that the Revels choreography has, and the swings as old fashioned swings (i.e. two hand turns) and keep the whole thing very smooth, you have something that meets my description and recollection, which is of course based on the way my set was dancing it, not necessarily how the author (or for that matter the caller!) intended it... --Mike >I have in my collection a contra dance >written many years ago by Camy Kaynor to the tune of Abbot's Bromely >which he called "Abbot's" - I'm not sure if this is >the contra in question, but here it is: > >Abbot's - Camy Kaynor - Improper contra dance > >A1 Actives Balance, Do si Do > & the actives swing >A2 with neighbors, balance, do si do > & swing neighbor >B1 Full Ladies chain >B2 Circle left with the _next_ neighbors > Circle right with your _originial_ neighbors > >It's a fun dance with bouncy jigs, played at a moderate tempo. >Or with the Abbot's Bromely dance tune as part of the medley. > >Hope this helps - >Pamela Goddard from centrally isolated Ithaca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 20:43:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:46:20 -0400 From: Michael S Franch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Change in Dance Location To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990616.234931.6470.7.franch-AT- juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Baltimore Folk Music Society has moved its Monday night ECD from Lovely Lane Church in central Baltimore to St. Mark's-on-the-Hill, 1620 Reisterstown Rd. in suburban Pikesville, just a half mile south of Beltway exit 20 South. St. Mark's has a lovely 1920's gothic revival church and parish hall, the later of which (where we dance) having an excellent wood floor and good cross ventilation (we dance all summer, even in Baltimore). Refreshments at the break, and always excellent live music. Handicapped accessible. The dance begins at 8:00. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:29:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:24:43 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Last chance for Renaissance Dance before Fall... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Conversation <4.1.19990614071918.00adb2c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> with last message <4.1.19990614071918.00adb2c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> In Boston, that is. Well, Cambridge really. This coming Tuesday, June 22nd, I expect to have Dr. Ingrid Brainard teaching a variety of dances of the Renaissance, probably a mix including some Italian, some French, and perhaps some English dances (though, of course, these are just the nationalities of the sources; most of these dances were probably danced all over europe and britain). The Waytes of Carolingia will be providing music. We are an amateur group specializing in early dance music, and have been working together in this genre for close to 15 years. We are what is known as a "mixed consort", using instruments from several families, typically including recorders, viols, brasses, drum, and sometimes violin. The dance will run from about 7:30 to about 10:00, and will include a refreshment break with period refreshments (they're good, eat, eat, they'll put color in your cheeks...). It will take place at the Old Cambridge Baptist Church, 1151 Mass Ave., and will cost $4 for members of the Country Dance Society, Boston Centre, who is co-sponsoring the dance. This will be the lastof these dances for the season; I expect to start up again in the fall, though the day of the week and other details may change! For more information, call me at (617) 964-7684, or email me at michael-AT- vintagedancers.org. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:39:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:37:21 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Mendocine: who's coming? To: ECD discussion list Message-ID: <3768A5B1.601919F-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, yes, I'd like to know which ECD list reader is coming to English week next month at Mendocino. Then we can really meet! Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 05:09:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:02:32 -0400 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 6/22 LAURA RISK & SUSIE PETROV in concert (Boston) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Not a dance, but it may make you FEEL like dancing! KING'S CHAPEL TUESDAY NOON HOUR RECITALS PRESENTS TUESDAY, JUNE 22, 12:15 pm LAURA RISK, fiddle & SUSIE PETROV, accordian Traditional Irish, Scottish & Quebecois fiddle music King's Chapel's recitals begin at 12:15 pm. and last approximately 35 minutes. Suggested donation at the door $2; all contributions are given directly to the musicians. For further information, please call 617/227-2155. King's Chapel is located at the corner of Tremont, School & Beacon Streets (opposite the Omni/Parker House), midway between the Park Street & Government Center MBTA stations. Visit our webpage: http://www.tneorg.com/kingschapel/ The Tuesday Noon Hour Recitals series is supported in part by a grant from the Massachusetts Cultural Council as administered by the Boston Cultural Council. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:23:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:23:22 -0700 From: Bruce Hamilton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Mendocino: who's coming? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906171523.AA288993002-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'll be there. Bruce Hamilton Hewlett-Packard Laboratories MS-4AD Phone 650-857-2818 PO Box 10150, Palo Alto, CA 94303-0889 Fax 650-852-8092 bruce_hamilton-AT- hpl.hp.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:34:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 08:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Mendocino: who's coming? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JCI10XX7CG8X5TBK-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- My printout of the camp roster isn't here in Providence with me, but here's some ECD subscribers I happen to recall as being signed up for Mendocino. This isn't complete, and if I haven't listed somebody it doesn't mean anything special. Alan Winston (me) Vanessa Schnatmeier Bruce Hamilton Mary Devlin Nan Evans Sharon Green Philippe Callens Ric Goldman Victoria Bestock -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:06:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 09:06:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Oops To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JCI272H6GA8X5TBK-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- It has been pointed out to me that I might be violating confidentiality of camp registrations by announcing, without asking individual permission, who'll be at English Week. My apologies to everyone named; I won't repeat that. I will remove my note from the archives. (Well, everyone named except Bruce, Philippe, and me, since I didn't need my own permission and Bruce and Philippe had already outed themselves.) Sorry about that. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:32:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 13:04:57 -0700 From: WPOB Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Mendocino: who's coming? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01beb8fc$ac0c28e0$1ce96ed1-AT- uspppWPOB> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'll be there. Pat O'Brien -----Original Message----- From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Mendocino: who's coming? Folks -- My printout of the camp roster isn't here in Providence with me, but here's some ECD subscribers I happen to recall as being signed up for Mendocino. This isn't complete, and if I haven't listed somebody it doesn't mean anything special. Alan Winston (me) Vanessa Schnatmeier Bruce Hamilton Mary Devlin Nan Evans Sharon Green Philippe Callens Ric Goldman Victoria Bestock -- Alan ============================================================================ === Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 ============================================================================ === ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 16:25:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:25:05 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 9:06 AM -0700 6/17/99, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >Folks -- >(Well, everyone named except Bruce, Philippe, and me, since I didn't need my >own permission and Bruce and Philippe had already outed themselves.) I find the notion of "outing oneself" as going to Mendocino quite droll. (not to dispute the serious point Alan deals with). I _do_ regret that I won't be there this year. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 17:25:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:23 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Oops To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906172024_MC2-79DC-9401-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message text written by Alan Winston >Folks -- It has been pointed out to me that I might be violating confidentiality of camp registrations by announcing, without asking individual permission, who'll be at English Week.< Whew! Alan, I'm glad you pointed out this principle. I was about to have CDSS print up *name tags* for English Week at Pinewoods, which would have outed everyone at the moment of arrival! :-) Gene Murrow (aka Jeanne Morrill) EC Dancer, Musician, and Caller who wishes to maintain identity as a woman married to Peter Barnes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:00:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:00:16 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Mendocino: who's coming? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I won't say, but as I typed a similar message to Philippe yesterday, I was wearing a 1995 Mendocino English Week t-shirt. Next year I could very well be wearing the 1999 edition...to Pinewoods (what's the name of that scholarship fund?). -- gs ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 19:17:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:26:57 +0000 From: Mary E Jones Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37696820.5F6C-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199906172024_MC2-79DC-9401-AT- compuserve.com> Gene Murrow wrote: > Gene Murrow (aka Jeanne Morrill) > EC Dancer, Musician, and Caller who wishes to maintain identity as a woman > married to Peter Barnes Gene - In your own words: fuhggedabboudit! Mary (whose post-menopausal missing hormones make her closer to Gene Murrow than he realizes...!) Jones Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 04:42:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 06:26:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906181026.GAA01106-AT- sca.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > It has been pointed out to me that I might be violating confidentiality of > camp registrations by announcing, without asking individual permission, > who'll be at English Week. Technically yes; although I've never seen anyone complain about names being posted; usually the complaint is phone #'s and home addresses. . We have that problem at university; because you could track someone by checking the schedules to see what rooms they will be in when ... etc In a dance related case; I know someone who gets too much attention from men. Somehow they get a phone number or address and then she's getting post cards from who knows where (and who knows whom) or phone calls from lonely guys (who continue to hit on her even though she's in a relationship). But then that seems to be normal. Some guys give up if they see a wedding band and some don't even stop there. I've also been in the situation where I avoided certain dances because of who would be there and right now I can think of at least one "bad-blood" case between university students where he's making life a real pain for her so she avoids dancing etc etc. I used to think that guys grew up later in life (say 30); but I've met enough counter-examples to make me question that. Ok, an ECD related tidbit. Is there anyone from England here; anyone who might know the band Mock Hobby Horse? I'm now making a CD of their music. There is only some dance music on the CD and I've got dancing-spies working on getting a strictly dance music CD from them. Music tidbits and details are at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Mock-Hobby-Horse at the bottom of the page is a pointer to the other CDs available http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/CD-offer.html - Eric http://sca.uwaterloo.ca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:06:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:02:25 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <68b22c6b.249bb981-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Eric Praetzel wrote: >In a dance related case; I know someone who gets too much attention >from men. Somehow they get a phone number or address and then >she's getting post cards from who knows where (and who knows whom) >or phone calls from lonely guys (who continue to hit on her even >though she's in a relationship). But then that seems to be normal. >Some guys give up if they see a wedding band and some don't even >stop there. Yeah? What's her name? ;-) ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:12:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:11:40 -0500 From: Mike Mudrey Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906182111.QAA12783-AT- mail.tds.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 09:06 AM 6/17/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >Folks -- > >It has been pointed out to me that I might be violating confidentiality of >camp registrations by announcing, without asking individual permission, >who'll be at English Week. The essential concern that I have is the wide broadcast the the named individual will not be at home, and presumably, the house will be empty. My secretaries are instructed not to say that I am "on vacation", but that I am not in the office, may another staff member help? Similarly, Alan, you should not say that you will be away, but rather the server will be down for maintenance, etc. Perhaps I am a little paraoid, but when I get home at the end of the day and there are several "click-click"s on my answering machine, I begin to wonder is that is checking for someone home. mm Mike Mudrey P.O. Box 22 New Glarus, Wisconsin 53574-0022 mgmudrey-AT- madison.tds.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:35:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:34:13 -0400 (EDT) From: S2LINEN-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1713b086.249c1555-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/18/99 7:43:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dancer-AT- sca.uwaterloo.ca writes: > > > It has been pointed out to me that I might be violating confidentiality of > > camp registrations by announcing, without asking individual permission, > > who'll be at English Week. Yes, I feel that indeed you had violated the confidentiality, not just of the camp registration, but of the individual. I know of a woman who is being stalked. Some people in her dance group, not aware of the situation, gave him access to a web site of dance that she regularly attends. Now both she and her friends uncomfortable and concerned for their safety. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:08:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:11:25 +1000 From: Bob Archer Subject: Outing at Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199906182304.JAA04783-AT- vasquez.zip.com.au> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At the risk of starting up a whole range of "who's going to be at dance camp X" threads, are any other list subscribers going to be at English-American or English dance week at Pinewoods? I'm looking forward to meeting some of the people I've been emailing. Hmm. Perhaps everyone who was happy to make their presence at dance camps known to the list could post _one_ message giving the complete list to cut down on traffic. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:42:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:38:44 -0700 From: Eric Goodill Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <376AD884.B1F4F2AB-AT- cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199906182111.QAA12783-AT- mail.tds.net> Hi, Just as a contrast, not saying anything about right nor wrong, I know of one group that when it has it's week-long events, publishes an up-to-date list of registrants on its web site. -Eric -- Eric Goodill Cisco Systems M/S SJ-N2 mailto:ericg-AT- cisco.com 170 W Tasman Dr voice: (408) 527-3460 San Jose CA 95134-1706 fax: (408) 527-3460 (yes, the same) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 17:56:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:52:36 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Outing at Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990618.205241.-214219.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'll be there for both weeks Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 18:16:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:21:17 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Subject: Re: Outing at Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <376AF08D.F18-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199906182304.JAA04783-AT- vasquez.zip.com.au> At the risk of being a wet blanket, I have to say that I always think part of the fun is wondering, up to the moment youpull into the drive, who will be there! Mary Kay Friday (who will be at Pinewoods all 7 CDSS weeks) Washington, DC Bob Archer wrote: > > At the risk of starting up a whole range of "who's going to be at > dance camp X" threads, are any other list subscribers going to be > at English-American or English dance week at Pinewoods? I'm > looking forward to meeting some of the people I've been emailing. > > Hmm. Perhaps everyone who was happy to make their presence at > dance camps known to the list could post _one_ message giving > the complete list to cut down on traffic. > > Bob > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:52:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 23:50:18 -0400 (EDT) From: SFORDNYC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Outing at Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <95cad9b7.249c6d7a-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Rather than posting our plans to the entire list -- courting stalkers and heavens knows what else -- why don't people just reply directly to those asking? That way the information will be private and the rest of us wont have to get a zillion little messages with everyone's plans. Fascinating though they may be. To do this, paste the person's name in a separate email -- clicking either Reply or Reply to All will send it to everyone. Thanks. Suzanne Ford // who rather likes the element of surprise ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:09:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 15:02:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Outing at Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990619220213.10821.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I remember the first time I went to English Week a couple of years ago, pulling up in my car and discovering from his name-tag that the person giving me parking directions was Gary Roodman. I knew that I'd arrived in English Dance Heaven. Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT ---"Mary K. Friday" wrote: > > At the risk of being a wet blanket, I have to say that I always think > part of the fun is wondering, up to the moment youpull into the drive, > who will be there! > > Mary Kay Friday (who will be at Pinewoods all 7 CDSS weeks) > Washington, DC _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 06:49:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:48:34 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fried-for-All 2000 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <7cd7048a.249e4b32-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Having recovered from another exhilirating Fried-for-All weekend, our thoughts turn to plans for the 13th Annual. Fortunately for us, Fried has promised to NOT teach on other continents next April & May, so we can have the event during those cooler months. I have TENTATIVELY reserved the weekend of April 28-30, 2000. It is neither Easter nor NEFFA. PLEASE, if any of you knows of an English dance event that would conflict would you let me know ASAP? Thank you! Judy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:00:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:01:33 -0400 From: Patricia Ruggiero Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ball program format To: English Dance Message-ID: <000201bebb89$fc5adf00$6f98ffd0-AT- g9tfz.MITRE.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In many places I've danced in the mid-Atlantic region, the protocol at the Balls is to group the dances in threes or fours and to keep the order of dances a secret until the posting of the next group. My questions are these: 1) What is the origin of the practice of organizing the program into groups of three or four dances? 2) What is the purpose of this practice? 3) Why is the order of dances not revealed until the designated person posts the next group on the board? (I know the Williamsburg ball program does list the dances by group on the first page of the ball program, obviously not regarding this information as a state secret.) 4) Are there ECD groups that don't organize the ball program this way? (I know SCD does not.) If not, what format do you follow? 5) Does anyone besides me wish this format were otherwise? Just curious. Pat Ruggiero ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 19:24:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:18:49 -0400 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906210223.VAA18799-AT- dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Pat, I can answer some of your questions at least with respect to the Baltimore Ball. See below... At 10:01 PM 6/20/99 -0400, you wrote: >In many places I've danced in the mid-Atlantic region, the protocol at the >Balls is to group the dances in threes or fours and to keep the order of >dances a secret until the posting of the next group. My questions are >these: > >1) What is the origin of the practice of organizing the program into groups >of three or four dances? > >2) What is the purpose of this practice? Short breaks for socializing and mingling (and maybe finding a "new" partner), spread throughout the evening. Related to #3 below. > >3) Why is the order of dances not revealed until the designated person posts >the next group on the board? (I know the Williamsburg ball program does list >the dances by group on the first page of the ball program, obviously not >regarding this information as a state secret.) To discourage booking of dances ahead; to ENCOURAGE dancing with out-of-towners and otherwise new faces! We solved the problem, or at least most of it, by not announcing the order of dances. Got the idea from Philadelphia. And, knowing what has happened at several balls (in various places) in the past, I would not be in favor of changing this. (BTW, booking ahead has not been the problem in Williamsburg as it has been further north.) Diane dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com > >4) Are there ECD groups that don't organize the ball program this way? (I >know SCD does not.) If not, what format do you follow? > >5) Does anyone besides me wish this format were otherwise? > >Just curious. > >Pat Ruggiero > Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:29:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 23:28:41 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fried-for-All 2000 To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906202328_MC2-7A1E-F00B-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Judy! >>>I have TENTATIVELY reserved the weekend of April 28-30, 2000.<<< perfect!!! no conflicts here in Amherst whatsoever, and not only that, I have that Sunday off at my new church job (where they are being a bit picky about my being there on certain Sundays), so I won't have any problems coming for the whole weekend. I sure hope this *doesn't* conflict with any other English events in the NY/New Eng area, because it's a great date for our point of view here, and we can consider having the Advanced Dance in May. I'll wait a few days to let things settle, then get back to you to see if "tentative" has turned to "definite." Joyce ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 20:29:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 22:28:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Larry Stout Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format To: English Dance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sun, 20 Jun 1999, Patricia Ruggiero wrote: > In many places I've danced in the mid-Atlantic region, the protocol at the > Balls is to group the dances in threes or fours and to keep the order of > dances a secret until the posting of the next group. My questions are > these: > > 1) What is the origin of the practice of organizing the program into groups > of three or four dances? > > 2) What is the purpose of this practice? > > 3) Why is the order of dances not revealed until the designated person posts > the next group on the board? (I know the Williamsburg ball program does list > the dances by group on the first page of the ball program, obviously not > regarding this information as a state secret.) > > 4) Are there ECD groups that don't organize the ball program this way? (I > know SCD does not.) If not, what format do you follow? The Central Illinois English Country Dancers have two balls a year. The ball program lists all of the dances to be done in the order we do them. Frequently in the past that same listing has been included in the e-mail announcement of the ball. As a musician I certainly like to have the ball order known before hand, so that I can organize my music appropriately. I also have been known to "book ahead" so that I get the chance to dance one or two dances with my wife. Larry Stout ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:49:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:23:07 -0330 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re:The Assembly Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Nicolas, A while ago, you posted an announcement for The Assembly Ball to the ECD list. As it turns out, I will be in Edinburgh this week for a conference. I'm not so much interested in attending the Ball (which I assume has sold out) as I am in the possibility of attending the Thursday evening practice session: > We also have a meeting on Thursday 24th June at Holy Cross Church >Hall, Bangholm Loan, ED. at 7.30pm, at which I shall run most of the Ball >programme. The charge for this meeting is =A32.20, and all are most welcome= =2E Do you wish only Ball attendees to come to the Thurday meeting? I have not danced many of the dances on your program - would I feel terribly out of place if I came along? How late do you expect the Thursday class to run? Do you wish people to be there from the start or can people attend part way through? If I were able to attend, what kind of footwear is required? My conference schedule will not be known until I get to Edinburgh so I cannot make any definite plans and that may explain the uncertain nature of my questions. Conference business has to take first priority but if I were able to get away for some personal fun while I am in Edinburgh, I want to try and do so. Thanks for any help, Martin =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Martin E. Mulligan St. John's (Newfoundland) mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=00 =00= =00=02=D3: ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:57:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:31:15 -0330 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ooops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT My apologies folks, my note to Nicolas was not intended for the whole list. Put it down to teh pre-travel rush to get ready. Alan, would you be able to delete it from the archive? Thanks, Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's (Newfoundland) mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= Ó: ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:07:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:41:07 +0000 From: Susan B Booker Subject: re: Ball Program format To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199906211507.LAA17682-AT- pimout1-int.prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Not having experienced this "secrecy" concerning upcoming ball dances' identities in my area, I can't comment on its efficacy in discouraging booking ahead (also not an issue where I've recently danced - Lexington, Berea, Nashville, Atlanta...). But knowing what dances are upcoming is of great benefit to those of us who continue to dance while dealing with chronic injuries such as old back or foot problems which can flare up with certain movements but which tolerate others. It's also much more considerate of one's partners to know which dances are best avoided and which are danceable, rather than having to belatedly excuse oneself from the dance floor and leave one's partner stranded. Announcing or posting dances ahead of time, before dancers are on the floor, eliminates this problem. I'd far rather be less spontaneous, and thus be able to dance selected dances, rather than being forced to chose between risk-taking behavior or appearing to be rude to a partner. If dances are posted in groups, at intervals, this is a non-issue - as long as enough time is allowed for dancers to learn the identity and order of the upcoming dances. I do like to have advance knowledge of the planned dances for the evening, though - helps to brush up a bit ahead of time! I see no problem with people booking one or two dances an evening with friends with whom they'd really like to dance. It's when the entire evening is taken up this way by the majority of dancers that frustration occurs, especially for newcomers or visiting dancers who may not know many "regulars". Susan Booker (despite my surname, I rarely "book"!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:16:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:15:53 -0400 From: Sharon A McKinley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: re: Ball Program format -Reply To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT re: not posting ball dances ahead: it's not a total secret in baltimore. we post 'em 3-4 at a time, during the mini-breaks, and presuming you haven't already rushed to get your next partner (which is part of the goal, to take a very short break), you will easily be able to choose the ones you can't do, and book with special partners, too. works for us! sharon "ball chair for life" mckinley, and (surprise!) not an official ball chair for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:38:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:37:23 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: re: Ball Program format To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199906211137_MC2-7A2A-10EC-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I do wish that the order of dances would be posted for the entire evening. As I get older I also get more selective and like to both pace myself and, when necessary, save myself for those dances that are either favourites or physically comfortable for me and it helps tremendously to know where they will fall in the program. I, for one, do not pre-book. Ben stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:40:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:38:36 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: oops, but while I have you... To: ECD List Message-ID: <199906211138_MC2-7A2A-EFF0-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT my apologies to all for inadvertently replying to the ECD List when I meant to write only Judy Grunberg. (now I have personal knowledge of how frighteningly easy it is to make that mistake...!) But while I have the floor, I'd like to offer a public Thank You!!! to Judy for her leadership and all the organizing work she does, assisted by Julie Raskin and David Barnert, to make the wonderful Fried-for-all happen every year. As an organizer myself, I know about the untold hours and skills that go into producing a successful event...phone calls, e-mails, meetings, hall searches, publicity, making up registration and evaluation forms, mailings, set-up, clean-up, personal diplomacy, etc. Not to mention looking at the overall picture and thinking up ways to improve. Judy, you and your committee do a terrific job! The Fried-for-all runs very smoothly, and those of us whose only responsibilities at the weekend are to dance, learn, and be reasonably cooperative are very much in your debt. I'll bet most (80%?) of you list subscribers are dance organizers as well as enthusiastic dancers, musicians, or teachers/leaders/callers/M.C'ers. The organizational work can get wearying at times, although usually for me the glow of satisfaction at the event makes it all worth it. To help us all "keep on keeping on", might any of you have any amusing or harrowing tales to tell about the organizing side of your participation in ECD? Current or from days gone by; cautionary or just for fun. (just remember, whatever you report will be broadcast all over the world, as I am acutely reminded!) Joyce Crouch Amherst MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:41:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:40:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906211540.KAA09875-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Patricia Ruggiero writes: > > In many places I've danced in the mid-Atlantic region, the protocol at the > Balls is to group the dances in threes or fours and to keep the order of > dances a secret until the posting of the next group. My questions are > these: > 4) Are there ECD groups that don't organize the ball program this way? (I > know SCD does not.) If not, what format do you follow? I don't know much about how things are done elsewhere, but I can tell you how we (the Central Illinois ECD) are doing it. We have a program available at the door with all of the dances to be done that evening listed in order. It also includes such info as the names of the musicians and dance leaders as well as some other trivia; location of post-dance party, acknowledgements, etc. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:00:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:58:49 -0400 From: Sharon A McKinley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: booking ahead To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT re: posting and booking; oops, looks like i've misrepresented myself, there. at the balto. ball we actively discourage booking ahead, but as someone earlier pointed out, sometimes folks like to dance with the guy or gal they came in with. i almost never book ahead myself, but then i never come with anyone, either ;-) sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:48:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:50:53 -0500 From: Gloria Krusemeyer Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball Program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <005801bebc06$3a7f4ec0$8b22a3d1-AT- gloria> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ben - Have you been declaired a member of an endangered species? I gave up the battle a few years ago when for several evenings running, I couldn't get dances with some of my (and other's, evidently) favorite partners. Gloria Krusemeyer Northfield, MN >I, for one, do not pre-book. > >Ben stein >Burlington, Vt. USA >dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:29:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:29:01 -0400 (EDT) From: S2LINEN-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball Program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <76d9d5da.249fd05d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/21/99 11:09:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SUSANTIQ-AT- prodigy.net writes: > . But knowing what dances are upcoming is of > great benefit to those of us who continue to dance while dealing with > chronic injuries such as old back or foot problems which can flare up with > certain movements but which tolerate other It would be a great help when in addition to knowing what dances are forth coming, that if a particular step,(ie: rant, slipping circle, etc.) is done, that it be noted. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:22:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:22:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Subject: re: Ball Program format - posting order of dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In every ball I've gone to with the order of the dances not given in advance, an alphabetical listing of the dances is posted well in advance. This approach takes care of the learning of the dances. It does not take care of the physical infirmities situation(s) or the I've-got-just-enough-energy-for-two-or-three-more-dances syndrome. When I run a dance, I post the dances in order ahead of time. Then I publish the 'cheat sheet' in alphabetical order and hand it out at the beginning of the evening as well as months or weeks earlier. I do not put up the order of dances at the dance until just before the first dance starts. This technique seems to cut down on the so easy to do booking during the sherry party and the buffet dinner. It also eliminates the feeling among the dancers that they are being treated like unreliable social misfits incapable of handing the booking problem on their own. In fact, it's tempting to go out of one's way to book dances when the entire program is not published at the dance. Almost seems justified. happy dancing with no booking, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:30:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:31:17 -0400 From: Lou Vosteen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Since I have a major responsibility in grouping the dances for our Williamsburg balls, I'll comment on why we do it. We think it's appropriate for the dancers to know what's coming. Some dancers may be a little unsure of a dance and I've often seen dancers looking over the instructions for an upcoming dance so that they will feel more comfortable doing it, even if it will be talked/walked through. The rationale I use in grouping the dances is to try to vary dance styles, formats (lw, douple, triple, set dances, squares, etc), degree of difficulty, and musical flavor. (For me, there are many ingredients that make up "flavor," I'm sure everyone can make up their own definition.) The grouping is intended to indicate brief breaks in the dancing to give the musicians (and the dancers) a brief respite and a chance to get a sip of punch and visit the Necessary without missing a dance. I'm pleased to hear that Pat and Diane have not found advance booking to be a problem at our balls. I encourage our dancers to look around and see if there's someone sitting out who could use a partner for the next dance. That's part of being a good host. Most of us, however, (and I include myself) have certain dances that we especially enjoy doing with certain people as our partner. I don't think there's any harm in prebooking a few of these special dances, but I would hate to see prebooking take over an entire evening of dancing. After all, these are "social dances, and even at a ball, there is a great opportunity to meet new people and renew acquaintances. Lou Vosteen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:41:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:41:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Margherita Davis Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: re: Ball Program format To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990621184101.41339.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Susan B Booker wrote: <> This is an increasingly common problem. I have found that emcees/callers at all dances are willing to share the order of dances with those who ask, if it is not posted. In New York, where many of us can be counted amongst the "dancing wounded" the teachers have become accustomed to give an advanced warning that an upcoming dance contains ranting, stepping or whatever. It works. Margherita Davis _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:17:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 15:13:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: oops, but while I have you... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT In a message dated 6/21/99 11:41:25 AM, joycecrouch-AT- compuserve.com writes: << But while I have the floor, I'd like to offer a public Thank You!!! to Judy for her leadership and all the organizing work she does, assisted by Julie Raskin and David Barnert, to make the wonderful Fried-for-all happen every year.>> Thanks, Joyce, for your appreciative words. We — & that definitely includes YOU — keep on doing it because dancers for the most part are appreciative and helpful and because they have such a good time that all the work seems worth it. In my case, having danced for so many years as a result of other folks' hard work I'm grateful for the chance to carry my weight & dance guiltfree for the rest of the year (esp. at the Amherst exp. English which I love!) <> Yes. Having recently narrowly avoided disaster: make sure your contract specifies that you expect all the chairs (the ones, that, over the years, you'd sort of taken for granted) not be rented out for the local High School graduation. I watched in horror Friday afternoon at around 5:30 while chair after folding chair got hauled out of the building, thrown onto a waiting truck which then disappeared from Lenox Village. The remaining chairs disappeared between 11pm & 9 am Saturday. Some of the tables were gone as well. Fortunately for us, the weather was perfect for picnicking under the trees. Judy — where have all the chairs gone — Grunberg PS: Sharon, Helen, Susan, et al, where ARE you? Does April 28-30 2000 look clear to you? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:24:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:24:12 -0400 From: "Gordon, Judy" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Ball program format To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <9CD16AB17310D311BCA40008C71B7680566FE5-AT- NTNYCMSX01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Re Patricia Ruggiero's post on organizing Playford Ball program dances into groups and posting the dances group by group: In New York City, we have been posting the dances in groups of three, rather than preannouncing the order of the evening (someone with a better memory may recall whether or not we always have done it this way). Our reasons are much the same as those cited by Diane Schmit regarding the Baltimore Ball: short breaks to encourage socializing and to discourage booking ahead. Aas we have two emcees for the evening, we also change over during these breaks. From a programming point of view, it's convenient to group the dances in sets of three, and within each set, vary the formation, key, meter, and tempo. This year, we had 20 ball dances on our program, which broke out to four sets of three in the first half and two sets of three in the second half, with a third set concluding with a final waltz. (We could have thought of the second half as four sets of two or two sets of four, but this way the posters came out evenly!) Yonina Gordon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 14:57:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 16:53:17 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Ball program format To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <01BEBC06.BC402A60-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_u0aJHDZ8LrBnuioKBUleLA)" --Boundary_(ID_u0aJHDZ8LrBnuioKBUleLA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'd like to say that I, too, wish this format were not the standard. I know that it was developed to discourage booking ahead, but in fact many people still do that, simply asking favorite partners for a specific dance whenever it comes up. As a more elderly dancer, I find I'm not decrepit, yet, but beginning to try to dance only part of the evening at any Ball, and I am always sorry not to be able to pick those dances I like best and be ready to find a partner. I personally feel a politely worded request not to book ahead, made by the master or mistress of ceremonies, would serve better. The groupings and breaks I do not object to, as they only make pleasant little rest periods for me. Mary Stafford Allston, MA --Boundary_(ID_u0aJHDZ8LrBnuioKBUleLA) Content-type: application/ms-tnef Content-transfer-encoding: base64 eJ8+IiAQAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AFABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABFQ0RAUExBWUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAU01UUABFQ0RAUExBWUZPUkQu U0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAfAAAARUNEQFBM QVlGT1JELlNMQUMuU1RBTkZPUkQuRURVAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAhAAAAJ0VD REBQTEFZRk9SRC5TTEFDLlNUQU5GT1JELkVEVScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAkAAAAU01UUDpFQ0RAUExB WUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAPY OQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAYAAAAUkU6IEJhbGwgcHJv Z3JhbSBmb3JtYXQALQgBBYADAA4AAADPBwYAFQAQADUAEQABAEgBASCAAwAOAAAAzwcGABUAEAAv ACMAAQBUAQEJgAEAIQAAADM3MzA2NTc3RjQyN0QzMTE4NEI5MTg2MzA0QzEwMDAwALMGAQOQBgBo BAAAEgAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGAkVY8GvL4BHgBwAAEA AAAYAAAAUkU6IEJhbGwgcHJvZ3JhbSBmb3JtYXQAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb68Bo9Vd2UwOCf0EdOE uRhjBMEAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABIAAABtZXNAd29ybGQuc3RkLmNv bQAAAAMABhBMDW0rAwAHEEICAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJRExJS0VUT1NBWVRIQVRJLFRPTyxXSVNI VEhJU0ZPUk1BVFdFUkVOT1RUSEVTVEFOREFSRElLTk9XVEhBVElUV0FTREVWRUxPUEVEVE9ESVND T1VSQUdFQk9PS0lOR0FIRUFEAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA7wIAAOsCAADtAwAATFpGdU53HLv/AAoBDwIV AqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQyNwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAI zwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5nMTAzFFALChRRBQvyYwBAIEknZCAAbGlrZSB0byA4c2F5G3AR gAVASSxtG3FvHFAD8Wgb4QQAIG0CEHIAwAVAdwSQG2Buvm8FQBvwG2ATwABwZAsRci4a4CBrHiAH 4BvzaU0dsWEEIA2wdmUVoHA7CYAbcmQEAAWgCHBhZxMbYAbgb2sLgGcgYckecGFkHFBidR/hA6B+ ZgDQBUADgRvQINAgwGz3HoIDEAMgZBuQG/IcUACQvm0LUBvQIEAiIyNQdgWw5yAAG2AKsXRuBJAd QyJgyxugINBjBpBpYyBgAHD6Yxtgdx5wJwAgkAXAIAHTBaAHgnVwHyBBBCAnkL8EYB3xIKAEgSWR KENyHFDvH0AoAB7QGuFtHhMFgRYQNnAgABxQeRHAIsRiZZ5nC4ADACJBG4F0chvRvyEhKFMCICWR JsIvUGYeU68ggS4THBEjskIHQGwcUPsewR8xYSwwB0AgMBOwG6D/BbAuoR4jG5AtwCJgAmAbY+ks 4GNrG+FvEbAoNAQg/x9AGzMtwBPAMbMzkRYQIqD/LrMrwyeQJsUfIiDQEaACIPsxcRvQZgngAyA3 cQbwJoG9JZF3BbANsBsQFhBxClD/NfEzJiIBImYAwA2wIeAb0t8bYADAE8EFwAWxbQQALpB/B5AE IDABK1ET4AIgCJBz/xyhCGAqsBugBJAgkC2xAkD9N+JUHnEJwAhgLOAZECoROzYyNpFrNUIkwR4i b2L+agWQM0IxoQQgHmEb0C9jfwDAG1EkISBAAHAFQDmBdO8kMT2xBUA4QWkEcCc0B4C2LgqFCoVN CsAb0FMBkPcN0DoBCoVBJJATwAIgHFD8TUEKhxnrE1AeMEKCCoUFFTEAS8AAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQ AAAAAEAABzAA0YnDBby+AUAACDAA0YnDBby+AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA5TY= --Boundary_(ID_u0aJHDZ8LrBnuioKBUleLA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:18:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:17:28 -0400 (EDT) From: ACFerg-AT- cs.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <47ae7150.24a04c38-AT- cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In her message Mary Stafford says of the practice of posting the order of dances at balls in only in small groups that > I know that it was developed to discourage booking ahead That was certainly the case in Boston. Years ago, in the early eighties I think (Mary may remember better than I) the order of the dances at the Boston Ball was known ahead of time; in fact they may have been done in the order in which they appeared in the instruction booklet sent out to attendees. In any case, people used the dance-order list as a sort of old-fashioned dance card, and in the minutes before the dancing started a sizable fraction of the dancers were milling about desperately trying to sign up partners for any and all dances. As it became clear that dancers were booking up much of the program, the degree of desperation, especially among women, who as usual outnumbered the men at balls, became greater. I don't know how much posting the order of the dances only in small groups helped curtail booking ahead, but I it is pretty clear to me that it is less of a problem now than before that practice was established. Arthur Ferguson Framingham, Massachusetts ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 19:30:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format (possible virus caution) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9d040da3.24a04e9c-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A recent posting by Mary Stafford is accompanied by an attachment for downloading which is not mentioned in the body of Mary's note. On another list to which I subscribe, a recent attachment turned out to be a computer virus that had attached itself to an e-mail message, unbeknownst to the sender. It wreaked a bit of havoc for those who downloaded it. Mary, could you let us know if you've actually attached an intended text to your posting? Carol Martinez ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:03:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:02:32 +0700 From: Andy Peterson Subject: Re: Ball program format To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Andy Peterson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <376fcfb8.23d9.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Patricia Ruggiero wrote: >In many places I've danced in the mid-Atlantic region, the protocol at the >Balls is to group the dances in threes or fours and to keep the order of >dances a secret until the posting of the next group. This practice came about to prevent people booking every dance in advance. I have been to Vintage events where there was this mad dash by women to fill their dance cards and those who weren't agressive enough often got left out. I prefer to know the order of dances so that I can book special dances with someone I particularly want to do them with. I refuse to fill my card completely. I just take my chances with finding someone who was left out in the mad rush and often discover someone who is truly delightful to dance with. Sometimes, even at regular weekly dances, I find that someone I really want to dance with has booked so far ahead that I give up trying to get a dance with them. When people book all their dances ahead it is frustrating to those of us who prefer the element of surprise. One Ball I attended some years ago, and I don't remember which one, had the dances on a scroll. Each dance would be rolled to the top, exposing the next two or three dances. That way you knew a bit in advance if there was a "special" dance coming up or if there was one you particularly did not want to do. This was a good compromise but required a bit more work than making posters. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:16:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:52:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: oops, but while I have you... To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990622185257.12458.rocketmail-AT- web4.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT ---JBGrun-AT- aol.com wrote: > > Thanks, Joyce, for your appreciative words. We — & that definitely includes > YOU — keep on doing it because dancers for the most part are appreciative and > helpful and because they have such a good time that all the work seems worth > it. Personally, I became a dance organizer out of love for power. All that fame doesn't hurt either. Barbara Ruth "Today New Haven Country Dancers - Tommorrow the World - Friday my laundry" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:50:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:47:08 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: oops, but while I have you... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <14a33ac5.24a1423c-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/22/99 3:18:15 PM, barbararuth-AT- rocketmail.com writes: << Personally, I became a dance organizer out of love for power. >> Not to mention, BR, that, in most cases, the organizer gets into the event. Judy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:01:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:44:50 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Attachment: Possible Virus To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01BEBCF1.F75A8F00-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Carol Martinez asks if there was an intentional virus on my posting regarding ball programming. No, there was not. Another person on the list posted to me privately with the same question. The attachment may be an artifact of the program I use for reading and writing e-mail (Microsoft Exchange) which seems to occur when I use the "reply to" function to list messages. This posting is not using that function. I'd appreciate anyone who receives this with an attachment to let me know privately so I can investigate. By the way, when the original posting came to me from the list, it showed no attachment. Perhaps some others on the list could also privately let me know if they received the previous posting with an attachment. And I would urge all of you to follow the general dictum not to open attachments unless you are very sure they are safe- given the several recent attachment viruses. Lists apparently are a ready source for them- on another list to which I belong, the "Melissa" virus appeared three times in one week from three different sources. Mary Stafford mes-AT- world.std.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:01:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:48:05 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Ball program format (possible virus caution) To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <01BEBCF1.FB04F960-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_Ld5xEEIMCRWwBnRUAK6W9g)" --Boundary_(ID_Ld5xEEIMCRWwBnRUAK6W9g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Forgive me for burdening the list with excess postings, but I am concerned with the questions raised by two list members receiving postings from me with apparent attachments. This posting is being sent using the "reply to" function. If it has an attachment showing, it is not of my doing. Don't attempt to open it (though it may contain nothing but the deleted message it was sent as a reply to) but do- privately- let me know how it appeared to you. Thanks! Mary Stafford mes-AT- world.std.com --Boundary_(ID_Ld5xEEIMCRWwBnRUAK6W9g) Content-type: application/ms-tnef Content-transfer-encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AFABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABFQ0RAUExBWUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAU01UUABFQ0RAUExBWUZPUkQu U0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAfAAAARUNEQFBM QVlGT1JELlNMQUMuU1RBTkZPUkQuRURVAAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAhAAAAJ0VD REBQTEFZRk9SRC5TTEFDLlNUQU5GT1JELkVEVScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAkAAAAU01UUDpFQ0RAUExB WUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAAPY OQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAxAAAAUkU6IEJhbGwgcHJv Z3JhbSBmb3JtYXQgKHBvc3NpYmxlIHZpcnVzIGNhdXRpb24pAGsRAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcGABYAFAAw AAUAAgA9AQEggAMADgAAAM8HBgAWABQALQAEAAIAOQEBCYABACEAAAAxRDdGMDFDQkRFMjhEMzEx ODRCOTE4NjMwNEMxMDAwMAD1BgEDkAYAyAMAABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAAD ADYAAAAAAEAAOQDAMPyG8Ly+AR4AcAABAAAAMQAAAFJFOiBCYWxsIHByb2dyYW0gZm9ybWF0IChw b3NzaWJsZSB2aXJ1cyBjYXV0aW9uKQAAAAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvrzwhvPLAX8eKN4R04S5GGME wQAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQAAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAEgAAAG1lc0B3b3JsZC5zdGQuY29tAAAA AwAGEIOP/rADAAcQjQEAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAEZPUkdJVkVNRUZPUkJVUkRFTklOR1RIRUxJU1RX SVRIRVhDRVNTUE9TVElOR1MsQlVUSUFNQ09OQ0VSTkVEV0lUSFRIRVFVRVNUSU9OU1JBSVNFREJZ VFdPTElTVE1FTUJFUlMAAAAAAgEJEAEAAAAxAgAALQIAAAwDAABMWkZ1pyJWdf8ACgEPAhUCqAXr AoMAUALyCQIAY2gKwHNldDI3BgAGwwKDMgPFAgBwckJxEeJzdGVtAoMzdwLkBxMCgH0KgAjPCdk7 8RYPMjU1AoAKgQ2xC2DgbmcxMDMUUAsKFFElC/JjAEAgRgWwZ2lodmUgB4AgAhAFwGKPCHANsAMA GRAgdGgbUB5sBAAFQAPwHIAgZXhmYweQBCBwbxPAHEFzBiwb0QVASSBhbSB9BaBuHYAEoAmAHQQc gnHvClAd8QIgBCByC3ARsB+A5GJ5HHB3bxy0B4AG0PcEkCCxBZBlGzAcQh3WG5DnA2EbYh0TYXAK sQnwBUA2YQJAANBoB4ACMHMu2CBUaAQAHcYgJgEiMLccQhGwJOF1AJAcVSIWENMLUCFRbyIbkHUf ICBy+SXASWYmoAVAEYAEIAOR8yUYJzBobwPwGRAeUCmxqSYBbm8FQG8pkG0hUKxkbxxBJcBEAiAn JPNvE+AFMSigLCBwCfApoij7HIAIYGcdQCmxAMAhUB8B/wGQC4Ar4iXwHFEechyCDbCObBHAH3EH gXNhZxtQfSmxdynxJ0Mp8iJxKGQp2x5jLJAtHcAFEHYlEDEQ7nk0EDEhG2JrK/AH4CsRuymiJIFl JLEfgC3heQhgHi4KhQqFJeAAcGtzIe0KhU0KwCFQUwGQDdAFsBZkCoUHgUAhgHJsZO4uE8A6kAWg bQqHGesTUF8sAAWQBUAKhRUxAD2wAAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzCA1Rwb8Ly+AUAACDCA 1Rwb8Ly+AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAADAU= --Boundary_(ID_Ld5xEEIMCRWwBnRUAK6W9g)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:20:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:18:09 -0400 (EDT) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Attachment: Possible Virus To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <341638c.24a1abf1-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/22/99 10:02:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mary Stafford writes: " Carol Martinez asks if there was an intentional virus on my posting regarding ball programming." UNINTENTIONAL!!!! At least that's certainly what I meant - I hope it's what I said! I decided to post to the list since the message was fairly new, and before I (and others) downloaded it, I thought it might be good to make sure it was really an attachment from Mary and not something unwittingly sent. It might have been a glorious ECD Ball program.....now *there's* something I'd be glad to "catch". Carol ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:43:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:41:30 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Ball program format (possible virus caution) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I received no attachments from you. A while ago the "happy99" virus was accidentally posted to a mailing list I belong to, and I received it, though I wasn't infected since I use a Mac. The point being that yes, I can see attachments, even if they are PC-only virii. --Mike Bergman >Forgive me for burdening the list with excess postings, but I am concerned >with the questions raised by two list members receiving postings from me >with apparent attachments. This posting is being sent using the "reply to" >function. If it has an attachment showing, it is not of my doing. Don't >attempt to open it (though it may contain nothing but the deleted message >it was sent as a reply to) but do- privately- let me know how it appeared >to you. > >Thanks! >Mary Stafford >mes-AT- world.std.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 08:00:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:58:13 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Attachment: Possible Virus To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: mes-AT- world.std.com Message-ID: <2dabeb08.24a25005-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary (and interested others): I receive the list in "digest" mode, that is, every 24 hours or so, I get a single e-mail with all of the posts since the last digest listed in their entirety. Mary's second message (where she did not use the "reply" button) appeared normally in today's digest. The previous and next messages (the one Carol responded to and the one Mary suspected would have an attachment) both appeared in the digests followed by several screens full of stuff like this: >--Boundary_(ID_Ld5xEEIMCRWwBnRUAK6W9g) >Content-type: application/ms-tnef >Content-transfer-encoding: base64 > >eJ8+ Ih0UAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAA >AIAAgABBJAGAFABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFsA AA >AAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDdAQ9UAgAAAABFQ0RAUExBWUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFOR k9 > SRC5FRFUAU01UU ABFQ0RAUExBWUZ PUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAB4AAj On my Macintosh, I have software that can usually translate binary encoding (which is what this is) into graphics or other formatted files. My software recognized this as something translatable, but what it spit out was uninterpretable. I also downloaded today's digest onto a DOS computer. It had the same appearance. I did not attempt to translate the binary. My suspicion is that Mary's presumption is correct: This is not a virus, just over-ambitious software trying to be "helpful" by including the message being responded to in a form that has no value to anybody. Good ol' Microsoft. Maybe we should all follow Gene Murrow's lead and send poor Bill Gates eough money to hire software developers who understand what people actually need. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 13:31:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 16:28:06 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ball Programs & Prebooking To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906231631_MC2-7A81-56B2-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ah, the woes of prebooking..... way back in 1977 (remember, first Playford Ball on these shores with the Germantown Country Dancers) we had very few travelling dancers. It was mostly a local festive occasion with everyone in a celebrating and celebratory mood. After all, we were going to have a real party and dance the dances we all knew. In those days - although we had Phil Merrill and Louise McLure playing for us - repertoire was limited to those dances which were available as recordings (some treasured ones on 78 rpm shellac). The atmosphere was that of a party where everyone was an 'insider'. It did not really matter with whom we danced an individual dance - they were all fun! I was (and am!) very sensitive to that single lady syndrome - so there was no reason to feel left out: at least the set dances were danced twice after an explicit invitation to the ones who were sitting out to 'tap themselves in' for a repeat of the dance. That way, not only did they get to DO the dance, but they also got their most desired partner... It was not until the third ball that more dancers from out-of-town came, and that's when the prebooking started. Originally only by one of our dancers who remembered 'booking ahead' from dancing longer than anyone else. I remember distinctly that I did not have a chance to dance with any of my out-of-town dance friends - they all had been copped beforehand. Guess what, I didn't like it! At the Fried for All I really wanted to dance 'Up with Aily' with a special friend. We agreed to meet for it - and then the dance order was changed. Weeeeeell, we danced the inserted dance and stayed together for - ANOTHER non-Aily dance. Weeeeeell, we danced that one, too, and parted after the NEXT dance. Aily never came up - and meanwhile we had danced THREE dances in a row... Bad manners at a party! There will always be folks who are not the first ones on the floor and/or at the top of the set. If we could consider the atmosphere in toto (instead of: how many dances can I do with my wife/beloved/usual partner) and make the party INclusive for everyone, wouldn't that be better than concentrating on the desired partners we did not get? I'd definitely be in favor of no booking ahead! Alas, that only works if all agree and abide by it. ------ That first ball? We knew all the dances well. The booklet with dance instructions was meant as a memento, certainly not the source from which to learn the dances for the first time! We could have danced ANY of our dances in ANY order. Totally different from today's pre-ball cramming up to the last minute. Okay, I'm old enough now: I wish we could go back to the olden days! _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:16:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 17:00:04 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Ball program format (possible virus caution) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ouch! Bitten by the "reply" bug again. >I received no attachments from you. A while ago the "happy99" virus was .... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 05:33:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:29:47 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Grand March To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <99062408294761-AT- tedcrane.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all, I've been asked to call a mix of contras & English dances for some friends's wedding in mid-July. The bride's Mum has her heart set on a Grand March. I've taken part in one or two, and watch Grand Marches, but I've never _lead_ one. Any one got any hints? Relpy privately or on list as you prefer. -Pamela Goddard At home in Cosmopolitan, centrally isolated Ithaca NY where we don't often do things in a "Grand" way. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 07:41:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:38:16 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Grand March figures To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906241040_MC2-7A96-C7F1-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - Grand Marches are a GREAT way to start a couples-oriented dance event! As the organizer you best not participate, but stand at the head of the hall to play (gracious, of course) traffic cop (having a knowledgeable helper in addition doesn't hurt either....). Invite the most honored guests to be the heads of the line of couples after you have given them SOME instructions about what's to be expected. Typical figures include: couples in long lines a) walk UP the center of the hall b) divide there, C1 going right, C2 going left and then alternate couples following until c) they meet TWO couples abreast at the bottom d) walk up in two-couple lines e) alternate two-couple lines go right or left f) meet as EIGHT people (4 couples) at the bottom g) walk up again in lines of eight. This is a great ending if you have a four couple set dance in mind: you have the groups defined already. Alas, there are many more possibilities: 1) You can do a dip and dive movement when you have two lines of couples coming at each other, either alternating or one line dips under the arches of the other lines. Plan the dissolution beforehand, otherwise folks will never stop the tunneling! 2) You can dissolve the columns again (into a circle, for a mixer maybe) by doing a snake/spiral. Unless the head couple knows how, you can either take the lead yourself or appoint one individual to do so, no partner needed for the lead. The assembly WILL need help with this one to go smoothly... The leader holds closer hand with the right-most person in the first line and asks that line to follow. Then the leader swings a large loop counterclockwise with that line and cuts in BEHIND the second line. When the left-most person is close to the next line's right-most person, they hold hands and the 2nd line is drawn in. Same for all following lines. The leader always guides the group BEHIND the still standing lines. You can then decide upon either circle (for the first dance) or spiral (great for toasting the honored couple when they are in the middle!) as the ending. Oh, plan on at least 12 minutes of 'seamless' music at a good walking tempo. Good luck! _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:43:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 13:43:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: [Fwd from Tom Senior] ECD for youth To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JCS3Y2DBNC8X3E1X-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: "Thomas J. Senior" Dear Friends, My sister in Tucson, AZ, has taken on a Brownie Troop and has offered to do some Folk Dances with them. Here is her request: "SO -- do you have suggestions, or a teaching pack, even, that you could pass on to me of ***really easy*** dances?? I'd probably be dealing with 5-8 year olds....in a group of about 35-40 at a time....in a fairly large, rectangular room.... I'd like to inject some dances from the British Isles --" Off the top of my head i suggested Sellingers Round. But i'm not so sure how it would work with 5-8 year olds. (I did it with some success with some senior (chronologicaly gifted) citizens last weekend.) If any of you have experience with this age group, i would appreciate your advice, which i will pass on to my sister. Thanks, Tom Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. Thomas J. Senior New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 847-446-7000 x2634 seniort-AT- nttc.org Science FAX 847-501-6408 =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 14:34:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:41:26 -0400 From: Paul Rosenberg Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] ECD for youth To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990624174126.00816b70-AT- mail1.wizvax.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I work with this age group frequently. It has taken me many years to get a decent repertoire of dances that work well; now that I have quite a few good ones, I can say that working with this age group has created some of the most fun and rewarding work I have ever done in my life. The books that contain most of my repertoire are all available through CDSS: Chimes of Dunkirk (New Englang Dancing Masters Productions) Jump Jim Joe (New Englang Dancing Masters Productions) Listen to the Mockingbird (New England Dancing Masters Productions) Folk Dance Fun for Schools & Families (Bob Dalsemer) Step Lively...Dances for Schools & Families (Marian Rose) At 01:43 PM 6/24/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Thomas J. Senior" > > >Dear Friends, > My sister in Tucson, AZ, has taken on a Brownie Troop and has offered to >do some Folk Dances with them. Here is her request: > > >"SO -- do you have suggestions, or a teaching pack, >even, that you could pass on to me of ***really easy*** dances?? I'd >probably be dealing with 5-8 year olds....in a group of about 35-40 at a >time....in a fairly large, rectangular room.... I'd like to inject some >dances from the British Isles --" > > >Off the top of my head i suggested Sellingers Round. But i'm not so sure >how it would work with 5-8 year olds. (I did it with some success with >some senior (chronologicaly gifted) citizens last weekend.) > >If any of you have experience with this age group, i would appreciate your >advice, which i will pass on to my sister. > >Thanks, > >Tom > > >Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. > >Thomas J. Senior >New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave >385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 >Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 >847-446-7000 x2634 seniort-AT- nttc.org >Science FAX 847-501-6408 > > >=========================================================================== ==== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 >=========================================================================== ==== > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:00:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:27:44 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Great Virus Debate To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01BEBE62.975A42E0-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Many thanks to the people who were kind enough to respond privately to my postings regarding the mysterious "attachments" which appeared- for some readers, but not all- when I posted to this list using the "reply to" function. Eric Arnold, Dave Berman, David Barnert and Lawrence Stout in particular had helpful suggestions and information. Since extensive searching by a friend far more knowledgeable than I about computers and software has failed to find a solution to the problem, I will use only the "new message" function to post to lists, and will write to Microsoft to ask for help in disabling the unwanted attachment function, if it is possible. In the meantime, I'll consider that my embarrassment at being unintentionally rude to the list is outweighed by the important reminder to all that attachments should not be taken lightly. Mary Stafford Allston, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:51:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:49:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 23 Dances by Fried To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been asked to post a list of all the Fried de Metz Herman dances taught at the recent weekend workshop. They are as follows, in the order taught. Saturday 10-12:30 Sharps & Flats Twenty Years' Waltz Silver Primrose Lichfield Sundays Circle Sarabande Saturday 2-4:30 The Mavis Sweetly Sings Thursday Mixer New City Triad Songs of the Harpist Opal Circle Saturday evening Edwin's Maggot Winter Waltz Seven Stars in the Sky Severn Bore Friday Sicilian Face the Music Sunday 10-1 Michael & All Angels Bryons's Boutade Hills & Dales of Wales Saturday Triad Devilish Delight of Dr. Dennard Yes! I AM Mireille's Daughter Peace Be With You ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 17:56:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:53:12 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd from Tom Senior] ECD for youth To: winston-AT- SLAC.Stanford.EDU, ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <99062420531238-AT- tedcrane.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I second Paul Rosenburg's suggestion of Chimes of Dunkirk (NE Dancing Masters, available through CDSS) - these books by Peter & Mary Alice Amidon have some great stuff. There are a number of us in the Ithaca area who do family dances, and dances for groups such as scouts. I use the material at the museum where I do education programs as well. The instructions are easy to follow, and they're perfect for the ages mentioned. Books & tapes, so it's a complete package. I'd be lost without them. -Pamela Goddard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:40:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:40:19 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Amherst Area Dance Event To: ECD List Message-ID: <199906250940_MC2-7AC7-58DD-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello, all, Rob Brooks asked me to post this announcement, since he had difficulty getting through. Joyce Crouch _______________ An announcement/invitation: On Sunday June 27th , all lovers of English Country Dance are invited to an exciting dance event to benefit the Monday Night English Dance series (held weekly in North Hadley, MA). This afternoon-into-evening event will take place in the beautiful new hall known (so far) as "Richard & Flora's Whately Dance Barn" in Whately, Massachusetts. The afternoon will begin at 3:30 pm, with Brad Foster leading an English Style Workshop, with music by pianist Joyce Crouch. At 5:00 we will break for a satisfying potluck supper/socializing break (a grill will be available for cooking). The evening Dance Party will run from 7 to 10 pm. It will be led by three of our very talented Amherst-area callers: Robin Hayden, Mary Jones, and Rob Brooks, Live (and lively and beautiful) music will accompany our dancing, provided by an amazing lineup of local musicians: Ted Ehrhard, Susan Kevra, Pat McPherson, Linda Henry, Lise Brown and Van Kaynor. The suggested donation is $5 for the style workshop and $10 for the evening program. $15 for both. All proceeds go to the Monday night dance series. Please bring clean, non-street, soft-soled shoes. For directions to the hall (which, BTW, is halfway between Greenfield and Northampton, an easy 6 minutes off I-91), or for more information, please contact fjjoseph-AT- unix.amherst.edu The program will be: Corelli's Maggot Kelsterne Gardens Duke of Kent's Waltz Fenterlarick Indian Princess Hambleton's Round O Jacob Hall's Jig St. Margaret's Hill Barbarini's Tambourine Prince William Fast Packet Elizabeth Final Waltz Come dance and have fun with us! Rob Brooks Windsor, CT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:28:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:25:53 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: kids' dances To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199906251327_MC2-7ACC-D713-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Tom - by now you have gotten some good suggestions for Louise's project. In similar situations I use non-partner dances and singing games/playparties. Those have the advantage of letting the kids determine their own speed, and many of them offer a greater level of ACTIVITY than the anglo dances (i. e. 'follow the leader', skip, jump etc.). I'd love to hear from her... Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:04:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:03:37 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Friends, As some of you were very supportive of the idea of Bare Necessities recording many of the tunes of Peter Barnes' book, I thought you might like to know that Oasis, the manufacturer of the first CD in this series, will be shipping this coming Tuesday or Wednesday. Samples of the CD can be heard at http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/vol1/vol1.html. Our US dealers currently include CDSS and the Folk Arts Center of New England, located in Cambridge Ma. Cotswold Music will have them in stock in the UK. Wholesale orders will be handled for CDS-Boston Centre by Dan Pearl. He can be reached at Dan_Pearl-AT- stratus.com. (Wholesale orders consist of 6 or more CDs, wholesale price is $9 plus shipping.) For wholesale orders that come in by Monday 6/28, we can arrange to ship to you directly from the factory. For these orders, going to US destinations, there will be no shipping charges; there is, however, a $10 packing charge for orders under 300 units. Once 6/28 passes, people will have to pay for shipping from Dan's house to their location. Best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:19:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:19:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Terence Gaffney wrote: > Dear Friends, > As some of you were very supportive of the idea of Bare Necessities > recording many of the tunes of Peter Barnes' book, I thought you > might like to know that Oasis, the manufacturer of the first CD > in this series, will be shipping this coming Tuesday or Wednesday. How about giving us a list of the dances on the CD? > > Samples of the CD can be heard at > http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/vol1/vol1.html. Great if you have access to the net. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:27:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 12:27:43 -0700 (PDT) From: James Langdell Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199906251927.MAA02101-AT- bassclar.eng.sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I just looked at the web site. Here are the titles listed there Jack's Maggot Sun Assembly The Old Mill The Female Saylor John Tallis' Canon Sally In Our Alley Long Live London Round About Our Coal Fire The Introduction Hudson Barn Bury Fair Quite Carr-ied Away Easter Morn --James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com Sun Microsystems Menlo Park, Calif. > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:19:42 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" > Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD > To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU > Warnings-to: <> > MIME-version: 1.0 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > X-Listname: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance > > On Fri, 25 Jun 1999, Terence Gaffney wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > As some of you were very supportive of the idea of Bare Necessities > > recording many of the tunes of Peter Barnes' book, I thought you > > might like to know that Oasis, the manufacturer of the first CD > > in this series, will be shipping this coming Tuesday or Wednesday. > > How about giving us a list of the dances on the CD? > > > > > Samples of the CD can be heard at > > http://www.ultranet.com/~shelagh/vol1/vol1.html. > > Great if you have access to the net. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Priscilla Burrage Vermont US > (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:31:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:32:06 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I just looked at the web site. > >Here are the titles listed there > > >Jack's Maggot >Sun Assembly >The Old Mill >The Female Saylor >John Tallis' Canon >Sally In Our Alley >Long Live London >Round About Our Coal Fire >The Introduction >Hudson Barn >Bury Fair >Quite Carr-ied Away >Easter Morn Are these recordings for listening only, or are they dancable? Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 15:44:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 18:44:05 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JCTSPSH8TE9X3URI-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The new CD is definitely for dancing, and it is gorgeous! Robin Hayden who was allowed a sneak preview by impressario Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:27:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:27:06 -0500 (EST) From: GAFF-AT- neu.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JCTW4U5AP29BWR42-AT- neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The recordings are definitely for dancing, although I've enjoyed just listening to the demo tape. As part of the process, Arthur and Helene Cornelius danced through the dances with Gene Murrow in their living room; Gene then used the metronome markings he got from that during the recording session in Vermont. I'm told that Gene and Susan also danced to some of the music duringthat session. (Knowing the people involved makes it easy and amusing to imagine the scene in that living room.) best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:31:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 08:32:58 -0700 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Terry Gaffney wrote about the new Bare Necessities CD and how to order it wholesale. I have done this - ordered 5 dozen - and will have them available in the bookstore at Mendocino English Week. After that, if there are any left, they will be available in Eugene :-) and at WFF in Seattle, Suttle Lake dance camp, the Portland and Seattle Balls, etc., until I run out. I won't be selling any copies by mail. I'd like to thank, on the list, Terry and Dan for their enthusiasm, flexibility and encouragement, and Susan Murrow (our Mendo bookstore queen last year) for suggesting that I begin this project. See you dancing, Laurie in Eugene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 11:07:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:58:37 -0400 From: Shayna Keces Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Attachment: Possible Virus To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990627135837.009f5a80-AT- pop1.achilles.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Your other posting came to me with an attachment. I think the only people who won't be getting them are people who use Exchange. I believe there is a setting in Exchange where these can be turned off and it would be a good idea to find it because it is annoying for people to have to delete attachment from emails. Shayna Keces At 08:44 PM 6/22/99 +0000, you wrote: >Carol Martinez asks if there was an intentional virus on my posting regarding ball programming. No, there was not. Another person on the list posted to me privately with the same question. > >The attachment may be an artifact of the program I use for reading and writing e-mail (Microsoft Exchange) which seems to occur when I use the "reply to" function to list messages. This posting is not using that function. I'd appreciate anyone who receives this with an attachment to let me know privately so I can investigate. > >By the way, when the original posting came to me from the list, it showed no attachment. Perhaps some others on the list could also privately let me know if they received the previous posting with an attachment. > >And I would urge all of you to follow the general dictum not to open attachments unless you are very sure they are safe- given the several recent attachment viruses. Lists apparently are a ready source for them- on another list to which I belong, the "Melissa" virus appeared three times in one week from three different sources. > >Mary Stafford >mes-AT- world.std.com > > ________________________________________ Shayna Keces skeces-AT- achilles.net InternetInfo (613)226-8764 Internet consultants and search specialists _________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:45:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:30:08 -0400 From: Michael Bergman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I posted the listing of tunes to the SCA-Dance mailing list, and they are wondering why the Tallis Canon is on the list -- seems various people have come up with dances that can be danced to this tune, and the question is which dance is done in ECD circles, or are there several? In particular, a contra by Pat Shaw was mentioned -- I don't know the name of the dance, though. --Mike Bergman >The recordings are definitely for dancing, although I've enjoyed just >listening to the demo tape. > > As part of the process, Arthur and Helene Cornelius danced through >the dances with Gene Murrow in their living room; Gene then used the >metronome markings he got from that during the recording session >in Vermont. I'm told that Gene and Susan also danced to some of the music >duringthat session. > >(Knowing the people involved makes it easy and amusing to imagine >the scene in that living room.) > >best, > terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 06:59:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:59:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Pearl Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906281359.JAA09848-AT- alta.sw.stratus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The liner notes (by Gene Murrow) of the new CD say: John Tallis' Canon -- Pat Shaw Collection, Book 2, Marjorie Fennessy, Ed., (H.E. Styles), 1986. Dance and tune adaptation by Pat Shaw. Both the tune (based on a hymn by Thomas Tallis) and dance (written for John Tallis, a treasurer of an EFDSS branch) are canons. ------------------------------- Here are the figures (NOT INCLUDED IN THE CD) Duple minor 2nd corners repeat action of 1st corners delayed by 2 measures Measures 1-4 Corners advance and retire 5-8 Corners cross (R sh) and turn L to face in 9-16 Repeat measures 1-8 17-20 Corners turn by R hds 21-24 Set and turn single while falling back 25-28 Corners turn by L hds 29-30 Fall back 31-32 Advance diagonally to next corner (1st corners R, 2nd corners L) The fun happens when the hand turns transform themselves into hand-across stars for two-measure overlaps. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:33:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:32:45 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New Bare Necessities CD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I posted the listing of tunes to the SCA-Dance mailing list, and they are >wondering why the Tallis Canon is on the list -- seems various people have >come up with dances that can be danced to this tune, and the question is >which dance is done in ECD circles, or are there several? In particular, a >contra by Pat Shaw was mentioned -- I don't know the name of the dance, >though. > >--Mike Bergman > The only dance we do here in Boston to the tune is Pat Shaw's dance of the same name. best, terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:55:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:33:30 -0400 From: catdancer-AT- juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ball program format (possible virus caution) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990628.134542.-79011.1.catdancer-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Okay, Mary - This is your third posting. I'm returning it to you, since you mentioned that you wanted to know how the message appeared to me. It does contain an attachment. (Your second note to the list, in response to Carol's message, did NOT contain an attachment.) I don't believe this! The attachment just disappeared as I was writing this to you!! My guess is that I can't send the attachment back to you because I'm on juno and they don't usually allow attachments. But it was there to begin with - honest! Helen Tuzio On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:48:05 +0000 Mary Stafford writes: >Forgive me for burdening the list with excess postings, but I am >concerned with the questions raised by two list members receiving >postings from me with apparent attachments. This posting is being sent >using the "reply to" function. If it has an attachment showing, it is >not of my doing. Don't attempt to open it (though it may contain >nothing but the deleted message it was sent as a reply to) but do- >privately- let me know how it appeared to you. > >Thanks! >Mary Stafford >mes-AT- world.std.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:16:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:24:14 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: True Brit, 10/8-10/11/99 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990628160843.00c6d8c0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Folks, If any of you are interested in attending True Brit, Country Dance*New York's benefit weekend at Circle Lodge (circa 1 hour north of NYC), you might like to check the CD*NY website: http://www.cdny.org/truebrit.html We have a great all-volunteer staff--Gene Murrow, Fried Herman, Gary Roodman, Yonina Gordon, Beverly Francis, Paul Ross, Sue Dupre, Sarah Henry, Robert Moir, Carol Martinez, and I haven't even begun to list the musicians--more ice cream than even country dancers can eat, plus a wild tea party overseen (if that's the word for it) by the one and only True Kit, Kit Campbell. It's a mad and memorable three days. Sign up by 7/1 to get the CD*NY members' priority. Details are on the website. Or email me off-list. Much love, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:36:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT) From: David Berman Subject: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Listies All, Normally a reader of others' messages, I thought I'd ask for help today. During some shuffling of paper, I found a dance we did in Arlington Heights, MA, after the NEFFA. I recorded it as best I could, but think I'm missing something. If anyone can help me, I'd appreciate it. Long Live London Four Changes Right and Right (Backward) Women Change, Men Change Women Change, Men Change Neighbors Swing Ladies Change Ladies start a Right Hand Star, men fall in Progress to a Left Hand Star with next neighbors Set and Turn Single, end facing same neighbors Questions: I'm not certain if the Four Changes are the same as Women Change Men Change. Are they? If not, I cannot recall what I meant by Right and Right Backwards. As I recall, this dance REALLY MOVES. But I'm having trouble figuring out how long the swing is now, and the changes. If anyone can share the missing pieces with me, I'd be delighted. Thank you (all) in advance, David Berman Toronto PS: Does anyone have the CD from King's Noyse, "The King's Delight"? If so, can you comment on its qualities for dance practice? Thanks -D ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:00:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JCZ1BN6WDU8WYWWC-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David -- This is a Pat Shaw dance and can be found in the Pat Shaw collection, probably volume 2 (where many interesting ones can be found). You can get the collection from CDSS; check www.cdss.org/sales for pricing. I don't have it here, so I'll reconstruct from memory. >Long Live London >Four Changes Right and Right (Backward) Which is to say, you're in Sicilian Circle formation, next to your partner facing another couple. Pass your neighbor right shoulder (parallel to your partner); turn your back on your partner and back up passing right shoulder; repeat to place. The music is phrased to support this. >Women Change, Men Change >Women Change, Men Change Same-sex people are diagonally across, so this is an overlapping diagonal exchange. Women change and loop back while men change, women change while men loop back, men change. >Neighbors Swing very briefly, if memory serves. >Ladies Change That's "Ladies CHAIN". More precisely; neighbors just swang; they open up with woman on the right; then the women chain back to their partners who courtesy turn them around where they take right hands again and men fall in behind partner into a star. >Ladies start a Right Hand Star, men fall in men let partner pass them and fall in behind Progress to a Left Hand Star with next neighbors Set and Turn Single, end facing same neighbors >Questions: > I'm not certain if the Four Changes >are the same as Women Change Men Change. >Are they? No. See above. > If not, I cannot recall what I meant >by Right and Right Backwards. See above. > As I recall, this dance REALLY MOVES. It sure does. It's important not to let the circle spread out too much, and to keep the individual foursomes pretty tight. >But I'm having trouble figuring out >how long the swing is now, and the >changes. The changes are like: tee yum pa dumpa dumpa (pass neighbor right) tee yum pa dumpa dumm (pass partner backwards) tee yum pa duddle dumpa (pass neighbor right) tee yuddle dumpa dum (pass partner backwards to place) (I'm sure that's the timing on the first A; my memory's fuzzier on the second A, but I think it goes like this:) tee yum pa dumpa dumpa (women change) tee yum pa dumpa dumm (men change, women loop) tee yum pa duddle dumpa (women change, men loop) tee yuddle dumpa dumm (men arrive home; swing neighbor) As I recall, the swing is extremely brief. Hope this helps! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:10:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:09:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Pearl Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199906292009.QAA12165-AT- alta.sw.stratus.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Actually the A2 is more like: tee yum (women change) pa dumpa dumpa (men change,women loop) tee yum (women change, men loop) pa dumpa dumm (men change, women loop) (swing begins) tee yum pa duddle dumpa tee yuddle dumpa dumm With sharp dancers, you can get an 8 count swing in. When men arrive after their second crossing, they do not do a fancy loop: they go right to their neighbor for a swing. By the way, I'm pretty sure the Women cross L shoulders and the men cross R (this leaves the swingers flowing towards each other). ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:03:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 17:03:23 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 4:09 PM -0400 6/29/99, Dan Pearl wrote: >Actually the A2 is more like: > > tee yum (women change) pa dumpa dumpa (men change,women loop) > tee yum (women change, men loop) pa dumpa dumm (men change, women loop) > (swing begins) > tee yum pa duddle dumpa > tee yuddle dumpa dumm Right! The swind was never all that short, especially if you've got any contra dance blood in ya! > >With sharp dancers, you can get an 8 count swing in. When men arrive >after their second crossing, they do not do a fancy loop: they go right >to their neighbor for a swing. Pick her right up and don't be shy! > >By the way, I'm pretty sure the Women cross L shoulders and the men >cross R (this leaves the swingers flowing towards each other). This is correct too. It's really two gypsies going simultaneously with a snappy finish to the swing, man placing lady exactly facing the correct way to put her hand out for the chain. If the guy is careless about this the poor lady has to look about for the other one for the chain. Done right and briskly and thoughtfully the dance is not a rushed event. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:50:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:47:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: "Emily L. Ferguson" CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JCZ5S0L0068WZNS1-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >At 4:09 PM -0400 6/29/99, Dan Pearl wrote: >>Actually the A2 is more like: >> >> tee yum (women change) pa dumpa dumpa (men change,women loop) >> tee yum (women change, men loop) pa dumpa dumm (men change, women loop) >> (swing begins) >> tee yum pa duddle dumpa >> tee yuddle dumpa dumm >Right! The swing was never all that short, especially if you've got any >contra dance blood in ya! >> >>With sharp dancers, you can get an 8 count swing in. When men arrive >>after their second crossing, they do not do a fancy loop: they go right >>to their neighbor for a swing.> >Pick her right up and don't be shy! I just want to note that my memory, now jogged, agrees with Dan and Emily. Sorry to have posted incorrect timing. (I wouldn't have posted at all, but once I started thinking about the dance I couldn't get the tune out of my head, and had to exorcise it by writing out "tee yum pa dumpa dumpa," etc. Thanks for the corrections, and the useful discussion on how this dance works. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 20:29:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:38:19 -0400 (EDT) From: David Berman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: tee yum pa dumpa dumpa To: Dan , Emily , Alan CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dan, Emily, Alan, and CC: listies, Alan said: Sorry to have posted incorrect timing. Me: Uh, I'm only now, after our English Dance in Toronto (Tuesday nights, 823 Manning Ave) reading the entire story. So no panic. Alan also said: (I wouldn't have posted at all, but once I started thinking about the dance I couldn't get the tune out of my head, and had to exorcise it by writing out "tee yum pa dumpa dumpa," etc.) Me: I've been singing cues to myself pretty much every tuesday and wednesday evening for the last little while. Funny: the dances (for teaching sake) are not yet organic to me. I'm dancing, but still shy about calling/cueing unfamiliar territory. I still have melodies running around in my head, nonstop. Dan and Emily (fine teaching points) Alan (the first breakdown and Correction of Typo) T h a n k Y o u for your help tonight. We have live music next weekend, and might do it, depending. I'll keep "singing" it until then. Dave - tee yum pa dumpa dumpa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:42:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: SamiFidler-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #546 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 6/30/99 3:00:47 PM, system-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes: << By the way, I'm pretty sure the Women cross L shoulders and the men cross R (this leaves the swingers flowing towards each other). >> When Susan Kevra called this dance at Old Songs this past weekend, it was women pass left, loop left into the swing, and I did find the men were often late for the swing. Sami Sami ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:11:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:11:04 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #546 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 11:39 AM -0400 6/30/99, SamiFidler-AT- aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 6/30/99 3:00:47 PM, system-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU writes: > ><< By the way, I'm pretty sure the Women cross L shoulders and the men >cross R (this leaves the swingers flowing towards each other). > >> > >When Susan Kevra called this dance at Old Songs this past weekend, it was >women pass left, loop left into the swing, and I did find the men were often >late for the swing. > >Sami > >Sami Well, they just can't stall on the startup! It's called Quick Lefts and Rights, according to Pat Shaw, who made up the dance! Really the entire figure is just a warmup for the swing. If you focus on being there in time for the swing (and the anticipation of the pleasure of swinging up and storm and then stopping on a dime for the ladies' chain) then you start the crosses on time because you know where and why you're going! Great dance! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 15:13:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:10:12 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: daveb-AT- interlog.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Berman asked: >During some shuffling of paper, I found a dance we did in >Arlington Heights, MA, after the NEFFA. > >I recorded it as best I could, but think I'm missing something. >If anyone can help me, I'd appreciate it. > >Long Live London... And many responded with: >tee yum pa dumpa dumpa... I just want to make sure David understands what all the others took for granted: The dance has its own proprietary tune, also by Pat Shaw. If you're going to call the dance, you'd better play the tune. Here's how it goes: tee yum pa dumpa dumpa... ;-) ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 16:22:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 19:21:53 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: daveb-AT- interlog.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Here's how it goes: > >tee yum pa dumpa dumpa... No, no! It's De YUm pa dum-pa dum-PAH De YUm pa dum-pa dummmmmm............ Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 18:18:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:14:35 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Long Live London? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: daveb-AT- interlog.com Message-ID: <4.1.19990630211125.00aca620-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 07:21 PM 6/30/99 -0400, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: >>Here's how it goes: >> >>tee yum pa dumpa dumpa... > >No, no! It's De YUm pa dum-pa dum-PAH >De YUm pa dum-pa dummmmmm............ What hath Bruce wrought? Next step, Doodlers Anonymous.... Sharon Green (who agrees _entirely_ with Emily on the above phrasing)