Archive-Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 08:06:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 11:01:58 -0400
From: Howard Markham <hmarkham-AT-
earthlink.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: small dances in the living room
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <000101be93e3$8f6dce70$0a98ffd0-AT-
g9tfz.MITRE.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

For the record, the name of the school is Potomac School, which is in
McLean, VA.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
[mailto:owner-ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU]On Behalf Of adpete-AT-
jps.net
Sent: Friday, April 30, 1999 8:44 AM
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Subject: small dances in the living room


> on Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>  wrote:
>
>Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
>experience in their backgrounds?  To what extent do the constraints of
>space affect our choices of what dances to do?  What kinds of dancing
>overlap with ECD elsewhere?  Are the English ceilidh, contra,
>international, and ECD communities overlapping in most places?


    My sister, Lyrl Ahern, and I started dancing in Accokeek, Maryland in
the home of Jack and Frances Wright. Jack had done international folk
dance at MIT while a student there.  Frances had been a teacher in
a settlement school in Kentucky and had accompanied groups of students
to the Spring Festival at Berea College. They wanted to dance and found
that the nearest dancing was 45 miles the other side of Washington, DC.
They had a large enough living room and began inviting the neighborhood
into their home on Saturday nights. We have family friends who lived
near the Wrights. One night when we were at our friends house for dinner
we kids went to the Wrights to dance after dinner. After that, any time we
were down there on Saturday night we went dancing
    We did dances to whatever recordings were available. They were mostly
 Playford, but there were also several CDM dances. We also did Danish
dance (it was part of the Berea program), a few morris dances and a couple
international dances. Frances played the piano for a few dances and I can
remember a local group of chamber musicians playing for us a few times.
I even pulled out the violin I hadn't touched in years and learned a few
tunes. Once a year a dance was held outdoors at the amphitheater down
the road.
     Jack and Frances made plans to take a group to the Spring Festival in

April of 1969. I was one of the group who were to go, but the draft got
in my way. By the time the draft reclassified me to 4-F for a medical
reason, I had already been replaced, so I did not go to Berea that year.
The last night before the group left for Berea, Lyrl and I accompanied
them to The McLean School in Virginia for an evening of ECD.
    This is the story of that dance series as I remember it:
Jack Langstaff had been a teacher at the school and had invited
May Gadd to come down once a month and teach ECD to the children.
She would stay and teach an adult group in the evening. I don't know
how many years she did this, but the 1968-69 school year, Gay had not
been well and Mary and John Owen from Baltimore had taken on the
running of the dance. They had been in the Berea College Dancers.
The night we went to The McLean School was the last time the dance
was held there. The next fall it started up again in a church in the
Baltimore suburbs.
    It was at that dance that I picked up a CDSS flyer about summer
camp at Pinewoods. Lyrl and I both decided to go and have been
hooked on ECD ever since.
    This summer will be 30 years since that first trip to Pinewoods.
It was truly an experience that changed my life.

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 01 May 1999 23:30:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 01:29:11 -0500
From: Charlene Charette <charlene-AT-
flash.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: small dances in the living room
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <372BF0B7.46B94331-AT-
flash.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <372a6a85.612a.0-AT-
jps.net>

> on Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>  wrote:
>
> Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
> experience in their backgrounds?  To what extent do the constraints of
> space affect our choices of what dances to do?  What kinds of dancing
> overlap with ECD elsewhere?  Are the English ceilidh, contra,
> international, and ECD communities overlapping in most places?

I host an SCA dance practice in my living room.  We can fit a longways set of
8 couples or 3 sets of two-couples-facing if everyone is careful.  We do all
kinds of dance - longways, squares, rounds (which actually become ovals).

In some ways not having much room is helpful.  I find it much easier to teach
dances which require a tight set (such as Whirligig) in a room where the
dancers have no choice but to keep the set tight.  The downside is when I
dance at events where there's suddenly plenty of room -- I find it takes me
sometime to adjust to having to travel so much farther.

One night we had two sets that wanted to dance a longways for 3 couples dance
and rather than wait to repeat the dance they decided to put one set in the
kitchen.  Talk about *tight*!

Now, if only the living room were large enough for Italian balli -- those tend
to travel through the living room, sewing room, kitchen, and occasionally the
bedroom.  In other words, the whole house becomes fair game!

--Charlene

--
The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights.  -- J. Paul
Getty


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 05:45:01 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 08:44:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: small dances in the living room
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.990502083213.89664B-100000-AT-
elk.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>  wrote:

> Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
> experience in their backgrounds?  

We used to have the end of the year social in our living room and dining
room, an ell-shaped arrangment.  As you danced down the line, the 'head of
the set gradually rotated through 90 deg.  this phenomenon is OK if iit's
a longways, but we had to adjust when we sis Newcastle.  We finally just
accepted the fact that each set would have a different top of the room.

> To what extent do the constraints of
> space affect our choices of what dances to do?  

Obviously, dance with sweeping movements up and down the set (Dublin Bay)
or out to the wall can not be danced effectively.

> What kinds of dancing overlap with ECD elsewhere?  Are the English
ceilidh, contra, international, and ECD communities overlapping in most places?

The amount of overlap depends on the size of the community although at any
one time the 'new' English dancers may migrate from a single other dance
form, ie, thirty years ago our group formed out of a Scottish group that
had formed from an international group.  Since those early years, it has
been bolstered in numbers from contra groups, and now with the greying of
the grouup, from Scottish dancers again.

happy dancing,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 10:08:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 13:10:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: David.Millstone-AT-
VALLEY.NET (David Millstone)
Subject: Boxwood Consort
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <7917186-AT-
lyme.VALLEY.NET>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In the recent flurry of sharing discographies, I don't recall seeing the
contents listed for this recording, so...

The Boxwood Consort
English Country Dance Music
BX 101

Round Pond
Female Saylor
Linda's Valse
Saint Martin's
Jack's Maggot
Jenny Pluck Pears
Margaret's Waltz / Farewell to Devon

Heartsease
Knole Park / Loxley Figure Eight
Sun Assembly
Trip to Paris
Draper's Gardens
Green Willow
John Tallis' Canon

David Millstone
Lebanon, NH
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 10:52:49 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 13:50:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: SallenNic-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  ECD Digest V1 #504
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <f2f6d467.245dea6b-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


In a message dated 1/5/1999 3:00:10 pm, you wrote:

<<Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:05:06 -0400
From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT-
compuserve.com>
Subject: Curses...
Message-ID: <199904301107_MC2-7406-A6ED-AT-
compuserve.com>

"Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes", even if meant tongue-in- cheek,
needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAADLY! It's not the least bit funny - in
either direction!
>>

This is a parody of a standing English joke;  "Work is the curse of the 
drinking classes". Lighten up a bit!
										
				Nicolas B., Lanark, Scotland.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 13:45:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 16:44:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: JoAnne Rawls <ljrawls-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Special Moments, Cont'd
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990502204429.9153.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello the List...
One of my 'special moments' occurs in Nonesuch, Version II. If all four 
dancers, after circling right, lean into the circle just a bit before 
falling back (not really a balance forward; just kind of a gathering 
together before separating) it produces the feeling of an ocean wave that 
has just reached its highest point on the beach and is receding back to the 
sea. Then, as the first corners do a slow cross with a half-gypsy, the 
'wave' feeling continues: surge, crest, and recede. When both corners are 
moving to the phrase of the music, they catch each other with their eyes 
just for a moment as they move around each other and fade back to place. 
Lovely! Of course, if your opposite corner has his head in the clouds and 
doesn't meet your eyes, all is lost.

JoAnne Rawls, who is counting the hours til she dances again...
Newport News, VA


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 20:21:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 02 May 1999 20:20:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Margherita Davis <margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Living Room Dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990503032039.80945.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

>on Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu> wrote:
>
>Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
>experience in their backgrounds?  To what extent do the constraints > of 
>space affect our choices of what dances to do?  What kinds of dancing 
>overlap with ECD elsewhere?  Are the English ceilidh, contra,international, 
>and ECD communities overlapping in most > places?

I think that whenever Country Dancers assemble, it seems that a fiddle comes 
out, somebody produces cards, and the furniture gets dispatched. Over the 
years I have been to and hosted a fair number of these get-togethers. As I 
reflect on the mixed a variety of dances, both English & contra, I have to 
say that I preferred the set dances, like Prince William and Fandango. They 
are themselves containing to a small set, and therefore seem to fit better 
in smaller/cramped quarters.  (Squares would work well, for the same reason, 
but none of our circle called them.)

On an illustrative personal note: Some years ago I hosted a Christmas carol 
sing. After the singing ended, we cleared the decks for dancing. I had just 
met George Davis at one of Sol Weber's rounds parties two days before, and 
he had consented to come to this party, to accompany the carols on his 
viola. Once he saw these strange people rearranging furniture, he quickly 
whipped out his fiddle & trusty copy of Cole's 1000 Fiddle tunes. Irv Kass, 
calling from the platform above the sunken living room, turned to me & asked 
where I found this guy. I told him I didn't quite know, but I'd make sure I 
kept him around. And I did - I married him!

Margherita Modica Davis
     -Have fiddler, Will party


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:18:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 10:20:46 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: maypole dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b03b353791fddc9-AT-
[155.99.169.232]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Salt Lake ECD is having a maypole dance this Thursday, if the rain ever
stops.  Yes, I know Mayday is past, but we meet on 1st and 3rd Thursdays.
My question is, does anyone know any maypole dances other than the four we
do already.

The first is the simplest possible.  Everyone holds a ribbon, and walks
around the pole, giving a candystripe effect.

The second: Everyone holds a ribbon and faces a neighbour.  Weave in and
out, as for a grand chain without hands.  This gives a criss-cross woven
effect.

The third:  Alternate ribbon-holders stand close to the maypole, with their
backs to it.  The others are on the perimeter.  Note who has the next
ribbons to yours.  Outer people go around the pole.  When they reach their
original spot, outer people go in, inner people go out.  These new outer
people go around the pole to their original spot, and go in, while inner
people go out.  This gives a very attractive herringbone weave.

The fourth:  Everyone holds a ribbon and faces a neighbour.  To a graceful
tune (we use waltzes), back to back your neighbour and pass by right
shoulder.  Back to back the next and pass by.  Keep on until the ribbon is
used up, which happens quickly.  The pattern this time is more of an open
tent effect, as the ribbons do not hug the pole.

All these dances are done forwards, to make the pattern, then reversed to
unwind.

They dances are very simple, but because the maypole attracts a lot of
beginners and small children (that's why we do it) we often get glitches in
the patterns.  In that case it is necessary to watch carefully as the dance
unwinds, or you end up with another tangle.

Does anybody know any other dances?  Is there a source of dances?  Are
there any that are more challenging, or that have more interest in the
dance itself?  Does anyone else do a regular Maypole dance?

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:51:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 13:00:11 -0400
From: gaff-AT-
neu.edu (Terence Gaffney)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: maypole dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v0213050ab3538431fe9a-AT-
[155.33.180.122]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>  Does anyone else do a regular Maypole dance?
>
>Emma
>
In the Boston area, it's traditional to be down on the Cambridge side of
the Charles River at dawn on Mayday. Morris dancing, singing, some ECD and
Maypole dancing are all done to bring in the May. This year the weather was
great--a cloudless sky, all quiet, with a full moon over the Charles.
We used the second variant of Emma's list for the Maypole. First time went
without a hitch winding and unwinding, but there was a tangle on the second
run.

It's amusing that though the first Maypole in the Boston area was errected
in Quincy in the early 1600's, and was promptly cut down by the Puritain
leaders of the time, the tradition has been flourishing in modern Boston
for the last 40 years or so.
Best,
 terry


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 09:54:30 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 12:54:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Will Quale <quale-AT-
cs.swarthmore.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: maypole dances
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.9905031242110.18546-100000-AT-
allspice.cs.swarthmore.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 3 May 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:
> Does anybody know any other dances?  Is there a source of dances?  Are
> there any that are more challenging, or that have more interest in the
> dance itself?  Does anyone else do a regular Maypole dance?

at swarthmore college, we dance the maypole (almost) every year for
spring parents weekend at the folk dance club demonstration.  for the past
ten-plus years, we've been doing a five-weave dance to christchurch bells.

in short, the weaves are grand chain (the first you mention), a simple
running weave (women step in, run cw while men run ccw, then reverse to
places), spider-web weave (the fourth you mention), a couple weave
(couples doing a grand chain weave), and the "grand weave".  

the grand weave has the 16 divide into two facing lines of 8, which march
forward, people passing the person directly across by the right shoulder,
continuing in lines to where the opposite line began, and then splitting,
each half marching a quarter around the circle to meet another half,
forming new lines of 8 ninety degrees off from the old lines.  this
manuever happens 8 times total, which ends the dance (it's nearly
impossible to undo while dancing!).

introducing and between the weaves we have choruses of up a double and
back, slipping in and out, siding, arming, and circling 16-hands round and
back.

if you want further details on the timing/choreography of the grand weave
or other parts, email me. 

i've heard tell of an older traditional swarthmore maypole dance, which
was set up like two sets of dargasson at right angles, with pole at the
center.  i haven't found instructions yet, though.  if anyone out there
has seen or remembers this dance, please contact me!  i'd love to revive
it once i learn it.

--will

Will's Hole in the Web		     http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~quale
Folk Dance Club's Page	       http://www.cs.swarthmore.edu/~quale/dance

			"Faith manages." -- Delenn

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:32:47 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 18:30:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: MartinezPC-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Keeping the fiddler (was Living Room Dances)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <2f63c1ad.245f7d99-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

In a message dated 5/2/99 11:22:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
margheritad-AT-
hotmail.com writes:

"Once he(George Davis) saw these strange people rearranging furniture, he 
quickly 
 whipped out his fiddle & trusty copy of Cole's 1000 Fiddle tunes. Irv Kass, 
 calling from the platform above the sunken living room, turned to me & asked 
 where I found this guy. I told him I didn't quite know, but I'd make sure I 
 kept him around. And I did - I married him!"
 
Margherita, how lucky for all of us that you went to such devious lengths!

Carol Martinez
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:48:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Return-Path: Peter.Fricke-AT-
noaa.gov
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:47:12 -0400
From: Peter Fricke <Peter.Fricke-AT-
noaa.gov>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Maypole dancing...
To: ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0109E372F4EC001C*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNMFS/s=Fricke/g=Peter/-AT-
MHS>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



Shepherdstown Music and Dance revived a May celebration in Shepherdstown, WV in
1993... thought we were starting something new, but some old codgers (slightly
older than me) remembered Maypole dancing in the 1930s in the town at the
College buildings.  Has a Maypole dance (Emma's #2), Morris dancing (NW, Border
and Cotswold dances by local and visiting teams), poetry readings, music,
plough-play, clogging and ECD (to music by a country/western band this year),
speeches (short) by the Mayor and other worthies.  Lots of kids stuff (including
NW by the Morris Minors team) and about 300 or more in the crowd on the College
lawn, plus others to watch the parade down German Street (main street) before
the event.


Peter Fricke
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:24:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 18:10:48 -0700
From: Jim Mieczkowski <cait-AT-
snet.net>
Subject: Re: Living Room Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <372F9A98.71CE-AT-
snet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <19990503032039.80945.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>

Margherita Davis wrote:
> 
> >on Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
> >experience in their backgrounds?  To what extent do the constraints > of
> >space affect our choices of what dances to do?  What kinds of dancing
> >overlap with ECD elsewhere?  Are the English ceilidh, contra,international,
> >and ECD communities overlapping in most > places?
> 
> I think that whenever Country Dancers assemble, it seems that a fiddle comes
> out, somebody produces cards, and the furniture gets dispatched. Over the
> years I have been to and hosted a fair number of these get-togethers. As I
> reflect on the mixed a variety of dances, both English & contra, I have to
> say that I preferred the set dances, like Prince William and Fandango. They
> are themselves containing to a small set, and therefore seem to fit better
> in smaller/cramped quarters.  (Squares would work well, for the same reason,
> but none of our circle called them.)
> 
> On an illustrative personal note: Some years ago I hosted a Christmas carol
> sing. After the singing ended, we cleared the decks for dancing. I had just
> met George Davis at one of Sol Weber's rounds parties two days before, and
> he had consented to come to this party, to accompany the carols on his
> viola. Once he saw these strange people rearranging furniture, he quickly
> whipped out his fiddle & trusty copy of Cole's 1000 Fiddle tunes. Irv Kass,
> calling from the platform above the sunken living room, turned to me & asked
> where I found this guy. I told him I didn't quite know, but I'd make sure I
> kept him around. And I did - I married him!
> 
> Margherita Modica Davis
>      -Have fiddler, Will party
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
Margherita, we enjoyed your story about how you and George met. It
warmed our hearts in this cold and damp May weather! Hope to see you in
the near future. Cathy and Jim
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:29:09 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:27:47 +0100
From: Margaret Whaley <mdwhaley-AT-
mdwhaley.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #504
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0yKXcFAjR3L3Ewpg-AT-
mdwhaley.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Graham Knight wrote:

"Work is the curse of the Dancing classes"

Hanny Budnick wrote:
>
>"Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes", even if meant tongue-in- cheek,
>needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAADLY! It's not the least bit funny - in
>either direction!

What DO you mean??? - It's a splendid quote!!!!!!!
>>>
>
Nic Broadbridge wrote:

>This is a parody of a standing English joke;  "Work is the curse of the 
>drinking classes". Lighten up a bit!

Here! Here!
                
The originaI quote, I believe, is from Karl Marx (Das Kapital??)

Anyway, I second Graham and Nic - It's certainly a sentiment I agree
with!
>                                               
>                               

-- 
Margaret Whaley
Oxfordshire

"Another 'worker' who would rather be dancing."
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 15:29:12 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 23:27:47 +0100
From: Margaret Whaley <mdwhaley-AT-
mdwhaley.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #504
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <0yKXcFAjR3L3Ewpg-AT-
mdwhaley.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Graham Knight wrote:

"Work is the curse of the Dancing classes"

Hanny Budnick wrote:
>
>"Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes", even if meant tongue-in- cheek,
>needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAADLY! It's not the least bit funny - in
>either direction!

What DO you mean??? - It's a splendid quote!!!!!!!
>>>
>
Nic Broadbridge wrote:

>This is a parody of a standing English joke;  "Work is the curse of the 
>drinking classes". Lighten up a bit!

Here! Here!
                
The originaI quote, I believe, is from Karl Marx (Das Kapital??)

Anyway, I second Graham and Nic - It's certainly a sentiment I agree
with!
>                                               
>                               

-- 
Margaret Whaley
Oxfordshire

"Another 'worker' who would rather be dancing."
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:10:03 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:08:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Serafin <michael_serafin-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: 
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990505160833.58782.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

unsubscribe Michael Serafin


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:29:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:29:36 -0400
From: "Murray, Sterling" <smurray-AT-
wcupa.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
To: 'English Country Dance' <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <D18AB305B544D111977700805FEA78A701B23175-AT-
mail.wcupa.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Unsubscribe Sterling Murray
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 09:44:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 12:44:05 -0400
From: "Murray, Sterling" <smurray-AT-
wcupa.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
To: "'ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <D18AB305B544D111977700805FEA78A701B23176-AT-
mail.wcupa.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

unsubscribe Sterling Murray
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:25:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:19:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Re: dances of the millenium (fwd)
To: English Dance Maillist <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990506091750.8259E-100000-AT-
crl4.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I forwarded the thoughts on millennium dances to John Uhlemann, who knows 
more about European folk-dancing than anyone has a right to without a 
PhD, and here was his response.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:41:39 EDT
To: pstamler-AT-
crl.com
Subject: Re: Re: dances of the millennium (fwd)

the Bransle (a.k.a. branle) is indeed French.  A form was known in Elizbethan 
England as the "Brawl" (oh, those quaint British).  Giles Farnaby has one in 
the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book, "Worcester Brawls".
   She overdoes the 3-measure pan-European dance, too.  It is true that many 
Bulgarian, Macedonian and Albanian dnaces, as well as a few Greek (though 
most not) dances, are in 3-measure form, but despite knowning a LOT of 
Serbian dances, I don't know any that are in 3-measures.  Further, the basic 
dance of the middle east , the Halay (Turkish)/Depki (Arab) is in 3 measures, 
and goes to the right, as do all the 3-measure dances done in lands formerly 
under Turkist rule in the Balkans.  Croatian dances go to the left, as do the 
few remaining line dances of western Europe.  Langdans, by the way, is not in 
3 measures.  I suspect the 3-measure structure IS some sort of Universal, 
though, despite all this.  I think the Turkish and west European traditions 
are just a running together of something that may be incredibly older.  It 
certainly predates the time when a lot of the music arose for these dances 
now, most of which is in 4 or 8 measures.  The reason there are no dances in 
the East in this structre is that thereare essentially no communal/SOCIAL 
dances in those cultures, even where there are a lot of art dances , 
religious dances, etc.  Even in the Pacific islands, group dances are done 
free style and have no foot pattern structure, even when there is a highly 
complex series of arm movements. The same is true in Africa, which is why 
Blacks had to wait until they got here to invent tapdancing.

[With contributions to the latter from Irish railroad workers. - PJS]
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 14:51:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 17:10:30 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: That quotation
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990506.173245.-152113.7.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

One permutation has been omitted, "Drink is the curse of the dancing
class",
which was brought home to me the first time I had a beer just before
dancing
and discovered my legs had gotten oh, so much heavier.  I long ago
noticed 
that those exiting from Folk Music Week were (on the average)
significantly 
weightier than those arriving for the following dance week.  Beer
consumption
as well as exercise is probably a factor in this, since dancers seem to
imbibe 
less (with the exception of Morris dancers, of course, who defy all
categories.)



++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:53:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 18:54:21 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: One permutation, then another
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990506185421.007d9900-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sol  posted that one permutation had been omitted-- that "drink is the
curse of the dancing class." 

This reminds me that when my husband and I were in England we went to a
nearby town which was supposed to be having a performance of Morris dancing
at 10:30 AM.  At 11:00 we got discouraged, and started back toward our car.
 But just as we were leaving, at about 11:30  we heard bells, followed our
ears, and the found the dancers who were just ariving. 

"When do you think the performance will actually start" I asked, since it
was already an hour behind schedule and we wondered if we should wait or go.  

"Oh," the dancer answered, "in a couple of pints." and veered left into the
doorway of a nearby pub. I hadn't known how Morris dancers reckoned time
before this. 

In this setting, drink is 'of course' to the dancing lasses.  

While at Mendocino English Week, the necessity of a pub stop before the
stick-bashing Morris dance-out demonstrates that drink is the cause of the
dancers' clashes.  

(Oh is THAT what they mean when they shout "higher"? )  

In Greece there is a tradition of holding a glass of ouzo or wine between
the teeth while dancing, emptying it down the throat  without using the
hands to touch the glass, and without missing any steps, then flinging the
glass into the fireplace, smashing it.  In that setting, dance is the curse
of the drinker's glasses.

Vicky 

 At 05:10 PM 5/6/99 -0400, you wrote:
>One permutation has been omitted, "Drink is the curse of the dancing
>class",
>which was brought home to me the first time I had a beer just before
>dancing
>and discovered my legs had gotten oh, so much heavier.  I long ago
>noticed 
>that those exiting from Folk Music Week were (on the average)
>significantly 
>weightier than those arriving for the following dance week.  Beer
>consumption
>as well as exercise is probably a factor in this, since dancers seem to
>imbibe 
>less (with the exception of Morris dancers, of course, who defy all
>categories.)
>
>
>
>++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
>++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
>++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
>++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
>+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
>
>

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 20:23:07 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 22:55:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: DavBarnert-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Living Room Dances
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <74284d5e.2463b03d-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Lawrence N. Stout <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu> wrote:

 >Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room"
 >experience in their backgrounds? To what extent do the
 >constraints of space affect our choices of what dances to do?...

Although I cannot draw a specific answer to the question from it,
I would hate to see this thread wind down without some mention of
the dances we used to have in the living room of Justine and Byron
Buck in Ridgewood, NJ on Summer Sunday evenings following the
afternoon dances in the pavilion at the Alpine Boat Basin. After
an incredible Pot luck supper, English country, contra, and
couples dances. Always a band of 4 or 5 around the piano. I didn't
choose the dances (I was usually in the band), but I think I can
safely say that we didn't do too many Sicilian circles.

We'll see many of you in Hartford Saturday.

  ______      /\/\/\/\
 <______>     | | | | |  David Barnert
 <______>     | | | | |  <davbarnert-AT-
aol.com>
 <______>     | | | | |  Albany, N.Y.
 <______>     \/\/\/\/

Ventilator   Concertina
  Bellows      Bellows
(Vocation)   (Avocation)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:25:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 11:08:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: World Not Ending in New Haven
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990507180824.20251.rocketmail-AT-
web1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Although May has arrived, and the New Haven English dance series
graced with the sterling musicianship of Marshall Barron, Grace
Feldman, Margaret Ann Martin et al. and calling by Andreas Haydn has
packed it up for the summer, (and indeed the musicians have
literally packed up and are off in England with the English Dance
tour, having a marvelous time no doubt), all is not sorrow in New
Haven.  The New Haven Country Dancers is once more stepping in to
fill the English dance summer gap, with our third summer of English
Dances at the Branford Community Center in Branford, Connecticut. 

These dances feature well-known Connecticut caller Helen Davenport,
leader of Reel Nutmeg (who can be heard calling tomorrow evening at
the Hartford Ball) and New Haven's own Peggy Vermilya, who did such
a wonderful job as MC of the first New Haven ECD Ball in January,
and an assortment of musicians including Willow Sirch, Paul McGuire,
Norb Spencer, Peter Corbridge, Marnon Laibow-Koser and others . . .

The schedule is:

Friday May 21, 1999    Helen Davenport
Friday, June 4, 1999      Peggy Vermilya
Friday, June 18, 1999  Helen Davenport
Friday, July 9, 1999      Helen Davenport

Dances run from 8:15 -11:00 p.m with an introductory workshop for
new dancers at 7:45 p.m. (yes, the timing is odd, but this way we
don't overlap with the karate class, which would make for an
interesting evening, certainly).  Admission $8.00

The Branford Community Center, is at 46 Church St, Branford, CT. 
Directions below*

The same information, but with pictures, can be found at our web site
http://pantheon.yale.edu/~bfr4/NH.English.html, and for information
on NHCD *Contra Dances* visit  http://www.nhcc.com/henry/dance

Those who will be attending the Hartford Ball tomorrow can pick up
paper fliers there.

I hope to see some of you in Branford this summer.

Barbara Ruth

*Directions.  Exit 54 off I-95, Cedar St. to Main St. (just before
Branford Green).  Left onto Main,  immediate right fork onto South
Main, right turn onto Eades St., two blocks to the parking lot of
the Center.


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 01:59:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 04:56:11 -0400
From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Anglo-American Dance in Letchworth
To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT-
compuserve.com
Message-ID: <199905080459_MC2-74EF-CF64-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

            Staplers Country Dance Club cordially invite you to an

                           ANGLO-AMERICAN DANCE

                     Saturday June 5th 1999, 7.30-11pm
The Free Church Hall, Gernon Road, Letchworth, Hertfordshire, England.

Calling by  SUSAN  KEVRA  and  COLIN HUME.  Music by  KNOTTED CHORD.
Admission 5 pounds (Please bring a plate of food to share.)
For details phone: 01462 730497 or 01462 440779.

============================================================================

Sorry about all you Americans who won't be able to get there!  Susan and I will
both be calling English and American, and both playing in the band.  How's that
for versatility?!  This is Susan's first trip to England, and her only calling
engagement in the UK; in case you don't know her, she's a great caller and
great fun too.

Colin Hume
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:59:44 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 14:59:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dances of the millenium
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.990508145250.4707B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello to all interested in dance history:

The idea of 'dances of the millenium is a good one.' The problem will be
to keep it the size of one concert!  Also to balance Eastern and Western
worlds.

The discussion on the branle was right but wrong.  Vicky Bestock mistakes
the branle, a large inclusive dance type of the line-circle genre, for the
specific Branle simple given by Arbeau.  This is simply overstating the
case for one little dance. Best to include various kinds of branle,
including those to uneven meters. There's no question in my mind that
line-circle dances from various periods and geographic areas should be
included in your program.

For the 16th century, my choice would also fall on the galliard.  If you
really want to put together a real-life program, may I suggest you consult
Charles Garth on the galliard for teaching it?

Julia Sutton







On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jonathan Sivier wrote:

>    I'm thinking of organizing an event next year (2000) with the theme
> "Dances of the Millenium" which will consist of leading (and in some cases
> possibly demonstrating) some of the more influential dances of the past
> 1000 years.  I have the start of a list of dances to consider, but I thought
> I would send out an inquiry and get the benefit of the collective knowledge
> of dancers from all over the world.  Please respond (by followup article or
> email) with your thoughts on which dances should be included in an event of
> this sort.  If you have references for dance instructions and music that
> would be helpful as well.
> 
>    Thanks.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
> |  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
> |  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
> |  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
> |  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
> |  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
> |  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
> |  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 11:59:46 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 14:59:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: julia s sutton <jsutton-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dances of the millenium
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.990508145250.4707B-100000-AT-
world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello to all interested in dance history:

The idea of 'dances of the millenium is a good one.' The problem will be
to keep it the size of one concert!  Also to balance Eastern and Western
worlds.

The discussion on the branle was right but wrong.  Vicky Bestock mistakes
the branle, a large inclusive dance type of the line-circle genre, for the
specific Branle simple given by Arbeau.  This is simply overstating the
case for one little dance. Best to include various kinds of branle,
including those to uneven meters. There's no question in my mind that
line-circle dances from various periods and geographic areas should be
included in your program.

For the 16th century, my choice would also fall on the galliard.  If you
really want to put together a real-life program, may I suggest you consult
Charles Garth on the galliard for teaching it?

Julia Sutton







On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Jonathan Sivier wrote:

>    I'm thinking of organizing an event next year (2000) with the theme
> "Dances of the Millenium" which will consist of leading (and in some cases
> possibly demonstrating) some of the more influential dances of the past
> 1000 years.  I have the start of a list of dances to consider, but I thought
> I would send out an inquiry and get the benefit of the collective knowledge
> of dancers from all over the world.  Please respond (by followup article or
> email) with your thoughts on which dances should be included in an event of
> this sort.  If you have references for dance instructions and music that
> would be helpful as well.
> 
>    Thanks.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
> |  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
> |  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
> |  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
> |  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
> |  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
> |  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
> |  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> |  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 19:22:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 22:20:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  clapping
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e4a02c4c.24679c74-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Greetings all.

I'm just back from a three week trip (on which I did many entertaining things 
but danced not one step) and catching up. Steve Corrsin said

>But ultimately it comes down to flogging dead horses. Now, if only those
>folks could *flog* in time to the music...

Whole different set of skills, Steve.  Not what you want on the dance floor.  
Trust me.

Nilos Nevertheless
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 01:07:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 01:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JB0H641PIU9EQRPS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Folks --

For those who have been following the saga for two years (or those who've
read it in the archive):

I just called my third evening in Arcata, on the North Coast of California.
The first time, I learned that just because they contra dance every month,
that doesn't mean they're ready for Irish Lamentation or Female Saylor, but
because they do international dance a lot, they _like_ to rant.

[The difference between Arcata and, say, San Jose, as far as English dancing 
goes: Assuming you do Bonny Breast Knot as a step-hop (and I was interested to
find out from Colin Hume that that's an Americanism), in San Jose, they have no
problem with the pattern but don't want to do the step-hop, but in Arcata,
they're happy to try the step-hop but the pattern's too hard, especially contra
corners.  [Especially if, despite half of your couple borrowed for a remedial
demo, you still insist on starting the contra corners by arming left with your
partner instead of right.]

So this time, they asked me to do a mainstream ECD workshop in the afternoon
and an English barn dance in the evening.  (When no musicians proved available
in the afternoon, I needed to resort to recordings - thus, the frantic request
for playlists a couple of weeks ago.)  I've done workshops the previous two
times, getting 12 and 16 people, respectively.  It surprised both the
organizers and me when nobody showed up for the workshop at all.  Not one
person.  So after forty-five minutes we went out and had a beer.

The barn dance, as I keep reminding myself, was a success in all important
fronts.  People really enjoyed themselves and they got exhausted.  I was mildly
surprised that some people I saw for the third time, people who contra dance
regularly, _still_ don't understand duple minor progression, and after, say,
casting off one couple, will try to dance as 2s with the same couple they 
were just dancing with as 1s.  Oh, and nobody understands, even when it's
demonstrated, that doing something on the last beat of the phrase isn't the
same as doing it on the first beat of the next phrase.  But they liked it.
So some dances took a lot of repair, and I got hoarse.


Here's the program as danced:

Durham Reel (mostly follow the leader; I grabbed the girl who declined to
             get a partner and join the set because she didn't know how to
             do this stuff and made her my partner; she kept dancing through
             the rest of the evening. Yay!)

Galopede
Dorset Triumph  (I ran the dance 15 minutes, and by the end, people were 
                 mostly getting it.  But it took a lot of patching.)

Bonny Breast Knot ("What do you mean, split the women?"  "Before you go on,
                  will you watch our set do the whole dance and tell us if 
                  it's right?  Ran it three times, fixed some stuff, ran it 
                  six times more, people said "Awww" when it stopped, ran it
                  three times more.  I would have gotten lynched in San Jose.)

BREAK (seventy minutes to do those four dances, yikes; having learned my lesson
last time, I pushed people to get started again after ten minutes, and had
it together by 9:35.)

Right and Left Polka  (band has an Irish polka set that sizzles)
Nottingham Swing      (some people have timing problems with this)
Circle Waltz          (Advertised as cool-down dance)
Twelve Meet           (Taught hey-for-three; had to push band to go fast
                       enough, but it got good.  Two squares.)
Haste to the Wedding  (Recovery dance.)
Margaret's Waltz      (Ladies' chain was so hard one couple just quit and
                      went home.)
                       


A suggestion for everybody else:  Have Right and Left Polka (Anne Welch, 
in the Ring O Bells Barn Dance book), Circle Waltz (CDM), and Nottingham
Swing (multiple places) in your bag if you're going to be dealing with 
beginners.  The first two actually worked with drunken behaviorial ecologists
in Monterey, and they worked very well in Arcata, too.

Oh, and part of the reason I post this stuff is that I'm interested in other
people's triumphs, tragedies, and amusing calling anecdotes.  Please share!

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:12:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:14:25 -0400
From: "Emily L. Ferguson" <elf-AT-
cape.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v03007800b35c52700194-AT-
[140.186.62.149]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 1:06 AM -0700 5/10/99, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
>Folks --
>
>For those who have been following the saga for two years (or those who've
>read it in the archive):
>
>I just called my third evening in Arcata, on the North Coast of California.


>Margaret's Waltz      (Ladies' chain was so hard one couple just quit and
>                      went home.)

These people surely were not contra dancers?



The whole thing sounds like a struggle to me.  I'm glad you're trying, but
it sounds like really hard work there.

How does it feel to you?



                            Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts
                                                      elf-AT-
cape.com
                             Photographer, English Country Dance leader

                                              Small brave carnivores
                                             Kill pine cones and mosquitoes.
                                             Fear vacuum cleaner.

from "Kitty Haiku"


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:38:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JB0KX52Y5O9EQRPS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Emily quoted me:
>Folks --
>
>For those who have been following the saga for two years (or those who've
>read it in the archive):
>
>I just called my third evening in Arcata, on the North Coast of California.


>Margaret's Waltz      (Ladies' chain was so hard one couple just quit and
>                      went home.)

and wrote:


>These people surely were not contra dancers?


I don't honestly know.  I was dancing in the set - my girlfriend had driven
up with me, and we'd had no couple dances scheduled, and she likes
Margaret's - so my back was to that side of the ring when I called ladies'
chain, and  when I looked again, we had nine couples instead of the ten
we'd started with,  one couple was standing looking confused, and the other
two (who were both  youngish women, incidentally) were putting their
sweaters on and starting  for the door.  I just called "ladies' chain", not
"two women turn by the right hand and give left hands to the men, who take
them with their left hands, take right hands at the woman's waist, and
swoop them around in a courtesy turn," because I thought they _were_ contra
dancers.  (Incidentally, the high point of the dance was about 60 dancers,
and it thinned a bit at the break and quite a bit after R&L Polka, so we
had two sets and six people sitting out for "Twelve Meet", and were down 
to 20 dancing the last dance.  They tell me this is very common; people get
tired and go home before the end.  Not what I'm used to.)



>The whole thing sounds like a struggle to me.  I'm glad you're trying, but
>it sounds like really hard work there.

>How does it feel to you?

Since you ask:

I feel like I earn my money.  They pay a flat fee of $100 for out-of-town
callers; in this case I converted that plus a free-night certificate from
Stash Tea into two nights at a very nice B&B for me and my girlfriend, so 
it made for quite a nice weekend.  

I feel like I'm learning quite a bit from all this, including what to let
go of, when not to panic, and how to program for uncertainty, especially 
given the constraint of a band that wants a set list in advance and doesn't
feel comfortable just playing something they've never seen before out of
Barnes.  I've been getting a better idea about calling for beginners or
permanent beginners.  I also think that I'm eventually going to have enough
absolutely surefire dances and enough experience that I could go back to
the drunken-but-interested behavioral ecologists, or a like group, and give
them an evening I'd be proud of.  (That goal probably also involves buying
a wireless headset mike.) I'm also trying to learn to feel thoroughly
successful if the dancers had a good time, even if I feel that I worked so
hard that I must not have planned well enough.

At the end of the evening, my feelings were pretty mixed.  (And my throat
hurt.)  But it's getting to be less of a struggle, as I get a better handle
on what this group wants and needs, and there are some nice rewards. 

I neglected to mention that a couple of women came up to me and said, after
an evening where I'd chosen simple dances and chosen to run them long
enough for everyone to get them, that they appreciated my choosing simple
dances and running them long enough for everyone to get them, and that
they'd had a wonderful time.  That felt pretty good.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 04:17:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:17:03 +1000
From: Matthew Seligmann <Madmax9-AT-
bigpond.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Fw: Connection to List
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <004701be9ad6$a80f33c0$3da5868b-AT-
osborne>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_omDuzJh2EryOKO94jJSLGw)"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

--Boundary_(ID_omDuzJh2EryOKO94jJSLGw)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT


-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew Seligmann <Madmax9-AT-
bigpond.com>
To: ECD Mailing List <ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <ECD Mailing List <ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>>
Date: Monday, 10 May 1999 21:12
Subject: Connection to List 


This is a test message.
 
Please let me know if it is received by the list.
 
Matthew


--Boundary_(ID_omDuzJh2EryOKO94jJSLGw)
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<META content='"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=GENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original Message-----</B><BR><B>From: 
</B>Matthew Seligmann &lt;<A 
href="mailto:Madmax9-AT-
bigpond.com">Madmax9-AT-
bigpond.com</A>&gt;<BR><B>To: </B>ECD 
Mailing List &lt;ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU&gt; &lt;ECD Mailing List 
&lt;ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU&gt;&gt;<BR><B>Date: </B>Monday, 10 May 1999 
21:12<BR><B>Subject: </B>Connection to List <BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>This is a test message.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Please let me know if it is received by the list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Matthew</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

--Boundary_(ID_omDuzJh2EryOKO94jJSLGw)--
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 05:26:06 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:18:56 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU
Message-ID: <v04204e06b35c7d313947-AT-
[206.72.193.215]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <01JB0KX52Y5O9EQRPS-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

At 2:38 AM -0700 5/10/99, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
<<The first time, I learned that just because they contra dance every month,
that doesn't mean they're ready for Irish Lamentation or Female Saylor, but
>because they do international dance a lot, they _like_ to rant.>>

Way to GO!

>At the end of the evening, my feelings were pretty mixed.  (And my throat
>hurt.)  But it's getting to be less of a struggle, as I get a better handle
>on what this group wants and needs, and there are some nice rewards.


What an interesting experience Alan.  Are you un-miked for this?

If this group really enjoys doing dances over and over again (I 
couldn't help think - how ceildah like?) perhaps it's worth the time 
to really walk things through over and over again before the music 
starts and do fewer dances?  That way they could hopefully learn the 
dance. Perhaps they can't hear you calling once the music starts so 
it would be hard to fix things on the fly even if they were willing. 
And I think that especially beginners have a harder time listening to 
calls once the dancing begins.

Gradually they could build up a repertoire (even of figures) and 
would need less prompting. Sounds like you could program some 
lengthier instructional periods in between longer dance sets  and 
folks would be happy.  This is vaguely reminding me of years ago 
dancing with Dudley Laufmann.  At the time I remember thinking that 
the instruction went on forever, but then so did the dancing.

Don't have any calling experience to back this up, so it's just my two cents.

Mary Beth <-- promoting ranting on all counts!

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:55:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990510084314.14005E-100000-AT-
crl2.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Mon, 10 May 1999, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:

> >Margaret's Waltz      (Ladies' chain was so hard one couple just quit and
> >                      went home.)
> 
> >These people surely were not contra dancers?
> 
> I don't honestly know.  I was dancing in the set - my girlfriend had driven
> up with me, and we'd had no couple dances scheduled, and she likes
> Margaret's - so my back was to that side of the ring when I called ladies'
> chain, and  when I looked again, we had nine couples instead of the ten
> we'd started with,  one couple was standing looking confused, and the other
> two (who were both  youngish women, incidentally) were putting their
> sweaters on and starting  for the door.

Had there been a problem in the walk-through? Ladies' chain is the most 
basic of contra moves; it sounds to me like these were not 
contra-dancers. Among other things, regular contra-dancers would know 
better than to leave a set for any reason short of a coronary.

>  I just called "ladies' chain", not
> "two women turn by the right hand and give left hands to the men, who take
> them with their left hands, take right hands at the woman's waist, and
> swoop them around in a courtesy turn," because I thought they _were_ contra
> dancers.  (Incidentally, the high point of the dance was about 60 dancers,
> and it thinned a bit at the break and quite a bit after R&L Polka, so we
> had two sets and six people sitting out for "Twelve Meet", and were down 
> to 20 dancing the last dance.  They tell me this is very common; people get
> tired and go home before the end.  Not what I'm used to.)

It's become pretty common at contras around here, especially since we 
dance on Sunday nights, and people need to get to work the next morning.
 
Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 09:32:55 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:33:00 +0100
From: Thomas Green <thomas.green-AT-
ndirect.co.uk>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199905101632.RAA28325-AT-
sioux.hosts.netdirect.net.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On 10/5/99 at 8:46 am, Paul J. Stamler <pstamler-AT-
crl.com> wrote:

> Among other things, regular contra-dancers would know 
> better than to leave a set for any reason short of a coronary.

I thought even having a coronary only justified you in becoming a ghost to
help out at the ends - not leaving the set.

Thomas
----
T. R. G. Green                    also at:
preferred postal address:           Computer-Based Learning Unit
Oriel House, 27 Allerton Park,      University of Leeds
Leeds LS7 4ND, U.K.                 Leeds LS9 2JT, U.K. 

0113-226-6687 (tel)
0113-226-2751 (fax)
http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:30:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:29:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" <pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: Connection to List
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.990510132825.98710C-100000-AT-
gnu.uvm.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Mon, 10 May 1999, Matthew Seligmann wrote:

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Seligmann <Madmax9-AT-
bigpond.com>
> To: ECD Mailing List <ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <ECD Mailing List <ECD -AT-
 PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>>
> Date: Monday, 10 May 1999 21:12
> Subject: Connection to List 
> 
> 
> This is a test message.
>  
> Please let me know if it is received by the list.

The only way I can read you message easily is to reply to you.  Then it is
printed out.  Usually I just hit delete when I get those special messages.  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priscilla Burrage       Vermont US
(pburrage-AT-
zoo.uvm.edu)
                         

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:54:04 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 13:51:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chicoqueen-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <88404989.246876b4-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello Alan:

I've had the experience of calling the Arcata contra dance twice.  No time 
now to give your plea for shared experiences its due, but I hope to oblige 
soon...

Reine Wonite 
Chico, CA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:38:11 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, MGOODMAN-AT-
ALBANY.NET
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JB16JHY7X29ERAY8-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Mary Beth --


>At 2:38 AM -0700 5/10/99, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote:
><<The first time, I learned that just because they contra dance every month,
>that doesn't mean they're ready for Irish Lamentation or Female Saylor, but
>>because they do international dance a lot, they _like_ to rant.>>

>Way to GO!

I fully meant to call Roxburgh Castle, which has gone over well on both 
previous visits, but I just couldn't make it fit this time.

>>At the end of the evening, my feelings were pretty mixed.  (And my throat
>>hurt.)  But it's getting to be less of a struggle, as I get a better handle
>>on what this group wants and needs, and there are some nice rewards.


>What an interesting experience Alan.  Are you un-miked for this?

There is a microphone, and a 'stage' raised about six inches off the 
floor.  With fifty-sixty people, I don't usually need a mike, and here I
find I need to get out on the floor and demo, and sometimes run over
and fix problems in longways sets where they're happening - (eg, 
point and say "you're with THAT couple"). And with step-hop or rant
dances, I like to step along with the music while the dance is going,
mostly because I enjoy it but also because I've been told that it 
sends the message that I enjoy it and encourages the dancers to enjoy
it too, and that won't work well on the little stage with the mike.


>If this group really enjoys doing dances over and over again (I 
>couldn't help think - how ceildah like?) perhaps it's worth the time 
>to really walk things through over and over again before the music 
>starts and do fewer dances?  That way they could hopefully learn the 
>dance. Perhaps they can't hear you calling once the music starts so 
>it would be hard to fix things on the fly even if they were willing. 
>And I think that especially beginners have a harder time listening to 
>calls once the dancing begins.

The contra-dance people, one of the organizers says, are really used to 
having the entire dance called for them over and over again, so they 
don't build the skill of getting the dance into short-term memory.  Since
my goal is to get everybody doing the dance right and then shut up, this
makes for problems.

>Gradually they could build up a repertoire (even of figures) and 
>would need less prompting. Sounds like you could program some 
>lengthier instructional periods in between longer dance sets  and 
>folks would be happy.  This is vaguely reminding me of years ago 
>dancing with Dudley Laufmann.  At the time I remember thinking that 
>the instruction went on forever, but then so did the dancing.

My problems with this approach are threefold: (1) I'm only there once a 
year, so very little sticks, although I at least recognize faces and know
that some of the same dancers come back.  (2) When I was up there the first
time, I did extensive, extensive, walkthroughs until I thought everyone had
the dances and (a) the organizers wanted more time dancing, less time 
teaching and (b) it didn't seem to help, and (3) it's not a class, and,
especially with barn dance material, it mostly doesn't matter if they don't do
it absolutely right, although that last point is something I keep needing
to learn myself. So I end up just thinking of the first five times through
the dance as an extended walkthrough.  But I'd seriously consider doing this
approach if I were kickstarting a monthly class.


Yours,

-- Alan


===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 16:01:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:00:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: S2LINEN-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: Connection to List
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <4bf07955.2468bef1-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

yes mathew it was re'd

Sandra  cd*ny
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:44:22 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:36:36 -0400
From: Michael S Franch <franch-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Fw: Connection to List
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990510.224938.8918.0.franch-AT-
juno.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <004701be9ad6$a80f33c0$3da5868b-AT-
osborne>

I got your message.
Mike Franch
Balto.Md.

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 21:43:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 00:41:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: LIBWaltz-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The floggings will continue until morale improves
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <f0098ee8.24690efe-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Steve C. and Nilos wrote:
>But ultimately it comes down to flogging dead horses. Now, if only those
>folks could *flog* in time to the music...
>>Whole different set of skills, Steve.  Not what you want on the dance 
floor.  
>>Trust me. - Nilos Nevertheless

These must be the skills responsible for the epidemic of "the clap" we've 
been  experiencing.

The ongoing discussion reminds me of my junior high and high school Saturday 
evenings, spent happily in the "teenage folk dance class" at Michael and 
MaryAnn Herman's Folk Dance House on 16th St. in NYC. (I've kept my 
membership card, #446, from Nov. 9, 1963, as a momento.)

Prominently displayed on the wall was posted: "NO HUNTING, FISHING, OR 
CLAPPING IN KOROBUSHKA".   I'm still one of the few people who *don't* clap 
after the twirls. 

Lucy Weinstein
~g -AT-
__
 (\--/"
 /=\\
/ ///
(O2Waltz)
  
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 05:51:29 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 05:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Sat. May 15 Volunteers wanted for Contra Dance Demos
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990511124936.23714.rocketmail-AT-
web4.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

The following announcement concerns contra dancing rather than
English - on the other hand it is a call for "skilled dancers,"  for
a demonstration so it makes much more sense to go to people who
believe in skilled dancing.  Especially since there is the
suggestion of doing elegant or old-fashioned contras.  Most
contemporary contra dancers aren't aware there ever was such a thing
as "elegant" contras, and wouldn't know what to do with one if it
came and sat on them (oops, being curmdgeonly about contras again).

Anyway, there's enough overlap, and for any of you who might be
geographically appropriately, the following is from contra caller
Eric Hollman (a few times removed).  I think it sounds like a blast
and would love to participate, but alas it conflicts with the
Washington Ball.


> >Subject:  Sat. May 15 Participation in Dance Demos
> >
> >>On Sat., May 15, I'll be leading some demonstration contra dances
> >followed by participatory dances in a beautiful
turn-of-the-century  home
> >as part of a House Tour of historic homes in South Orange, NJ.  
Music by
> >Atlantic Bridge (Jane Rothfield & Alan Carr).
> >
> >Volunteer dancers will receive free tickets to the House Tour,
promote
> >traditional contra dancing, and have the pleasure of presenting
> >well-executed dances.  The media may be present.  The House Tour
is a big
> >annual attraction, featuring a large number of interesting homes
and a
> >variety of related entertainment, and drawing a couple or few
hundred
> >people -AT-
$15 admission.
> >
> >PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO OTHER SKILLED DANCERS!
> >
> >I have one set of dancers, and there is space for an additional
optional
> >set.
> >Would you or other SKILLED DANCERS  from your area  be interested
in
> >being part of the demonstration?  There is space for 8-12 volunteer
> >dancers to demonstrate some traditional, perhaps elegant, contras,
> >perhaps chestnuts such as Rory O'More, Hull's Victory, or some
others.
> >Dress will be turn-jof-the-century to the extent possible, or
simple
> >clothing as appropriate.
> >
> >The House Tours are ongoing from  11am-4pm.  The dance schedule is:
> >
> >10:00 - 11:00am  Rehearsal/run-through (a bit later if necessary)
> >11:00          Doors open for House Tours
> >11:30am-12N    PERFORMANCE #1
> >12:30-1:00pm   PERFORMANCE #2
> >2:30-3:00pm    PERFORMANCE #3
> >4:00pm         Doors close for House Tours
> >
> >There is time to enjoy Tours of nearby houses--in costume or
character if
> >you like!--which are mostly in the immediate neighborhood.
> >
> >Planning requires an advance commitment to coordinate couples,
sets, and
> >clothing.
> >
> >IF YOU ARE INTERESTED PLEASE CONTACT ME ASAP BY EMAIL OR PHONE:
> >EHollman-AT-
juno.com
> >(914) 255-0929
> >
> >IF YOU CAN RECOMMEND OTHERS, PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE AND/OR
SEND
> >THEIR NAME AND EMAIL TO ME.
> >
> >THANKS, AND HAPPY DANCING!
> >
> >Eric Hollman :)

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 08:33:53 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:33:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Playford Ball, June 5 in Urbana, IL
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199905111533.KAA22094-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

                  The Central Illinois English Country Dancers
                                Invite You To An

                   E N G L I S H   C O U N T R Y   D A N C E
                           P L A Y F O R D   B A L L


   The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their fourth
annual Playford Ball on Saturday, June 5, 1999.  The dance will be held
in room 314 of the Illini Student Union, 1401 W. Green, Urbana, IL, on the
campus of the University of Illinois.  There will be  a review of the evening's
dances from 7:00 to 8:00, followed by the Ball from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.  Fans
and finery are encouraged.  There will be a $5.00 suggested donation to help
cover the cost of the Ball.  All lovers of English Country dance and music are
welcome.

Dances Lead By: Susan Burt, Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier
Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort
Dance Review: 7:00 p.m.
Playford Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
Date: Saturday, June 5, 1999
Location: Illini Union, room 314, 1401 W. Green, Urbana, IL
Suggested Donation: $5.00

   There will be refreshments at the break and a party following the dance.

   There will be a costume contest with a Top Couple (King and Queen of the
Ball) being chosen.

The dances for the evening will be taken from the following list:

Appley House
The Bishop
Chelmsford Assembly
Circle Waltz
The Duke of Kent's Waltz
Gathering Peascods
A Grand March
Indian Queen
Jenny Pluck Pears
La Russe
Lull Me Beyond Thee
Mad Robin
Money In Both Pockets
The Queen's Jig
Sicilian Circle
Sun Assembly
Young Widow

   For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu) at
217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708 or check the webpage at -
http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/playford.html

   Thanks for the support of the Champaign Park District and the International
Folk Dance Society.

   For those who are interested, the Urbana Country Dancers will be holding a
contra dance on Friday, June 4, from 8 to 11 p.m. at the Phillip's Recreation
Center in Urbana.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 10:41:59 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:50:13 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: walk throughs
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990511.132723.-154773.0.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

I attended the Hartford Ball last weekend, and it was quite nice.
Putting in my two pence worth on a subject that has been discussed 
in the past, I appreciated the quick walk throughs at the beginning of 
each dance -- it took very little more time than a talk through, and was 
very helpful to those who were perhaps a bit fuzzy on any of the moves.


++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 11:21:31 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:05:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Praetzel <dancer-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: dance music CDs
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199905111805.OAA12512-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Those of you on the SCA dance list-serv know about the cheap SCA dance CDs
that I make and I've now added a more English Country CD that has some dance
music.

The Mock Hobby Horse CD is music from an English band called Mock Hobby Horse.
It is a nice mix of vocal and instrumental that is definately more listenable
than many of the SCA dance music CDs I carry.

Samples of the songs on this CD (and 9 others) are available in Real Audio
from my server at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
or more exactly http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/CD-offer.html
Just follow the link for each of the CDs.

The Mock Hobby Horse information is under:
http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Mock-Hobby-Horse

The songs on that CD are listed below.

from Maypole & Mistletoe
1 Indian Queen / Jamaica 2:54
2 Staines Morris 4:20
3 Wilson's Wild or Wolsey's Wild 3:10
4 Man is for Woman Made 1:46
5 Come Again 2:10
6 Fairest Isle 1:46
7 Give me my Yellow Hose again 2:46
8 The Quarter Brawles 2:16
9 Anello 1:49
10 The Holly and the Ivy 2:55
11 Horses' Brawle / Bransle de Bourgoine 2:43
12 The Boar's Head Carol 1:29
13 Volta : Lady Morley / Volta 2:26
14 Lully, Lulla, thow Little Tyne Child 2:19
15 On the Cold Ground 2:02
16 Paul's Wharf 1:52
17 Personent Hodie 2:01
18 I Saw Three Ships / The Sussex Carol / In Dulci Jubilo 3:38

from Mock Hobby Horse
19 All in a Garden Green / Kemp's Jig 2:22
20 Sellenger's Round 1:30
21 Lord Willoughby 2:26
22 Martin Said to His Man 3:07
23 Carman's Whistle 1:51
24 As I Went to Walsingham 1:59
25 Milesian / Rufty Tufty 2:26  

I'm always looking for more music.  The concept of the group that I'm in is
to distribute dance music to the masses for a reasonable fee.  Most CDs are
$3 US (shipping included) and some have a royalty fee of $1.50 to $3 US per
CD.

If you know of any artists / groups that are looking to have a CD mastered
and music distributed then drop me a note.  All sales & work is done on a 
not-for-profit basis.


  - Eric    http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:40:27 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 19:33:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <e4a02c4c.24679c74-AT-
aol.com> with last message <e4a02c4c.24679c74-AT-
aol.com>



----------
Nilos Nevertheless said:

> Steve Corrsin said
>
> >But ultimately it comes down to flogging dead horses. Now, if only those
> >folks could *flog* in time to the music...
>
> Whole different set of skills, Steve.  Not what you want on the dance floor.
> Trust me.
>

So have you ever actually flogged to ECD music, Nilos?  I know you've done it to morris....

[Humming "Newcastle" in a speculative manner]

Marian Phillips


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 21:48:05 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:07:02 -0700
From: paul/victoria bestock <bestockp-AT-
oz.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Arcata, redux
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990511130702.007a2bd0-AT-
oz.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

At 01:06 AM 5/10/99 -0700, Alan Winstron wrote:
  
>So this time, they asked me to do a mainstream ECD workshop in the afternoon
>and an English barn dance in the evening.  (When no musicians proved
available
>in the afternoon, I needed to resort to recordings - thus, the frantic
request
>for playlists a couple of weeks ago.)  I've done workshops the previous two
>times, getting 12 and 16 people, respectively.  It surprised both the
>organizers and me when nobody showed up for the workshop at all.  Not one
>person.  So after forty-five minutes we went out and had a beer.

How discouraging!  I wonder if you would get a better response next year if
you call the afternoon event a "dance" instead of a "workshop."   People
might think they will have to stand around a lot and listen to the caller
at a workshop, and that they will have fun dancing at a dance. You wouldn't
have to actually DO anything different than you planned-- just call it a
"dance" and see if it draws more people.  

Vicky Bestock

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:41:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 04:40:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  walk throughs
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <681c35ed.246a9871-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Sol said

>Putting in my two pence worth on a subject that has been discussed 
>in the past, I appreciated the quick walk throughs at the beginning of 
>each dance -- it took very little more time than a talk through, and was 
>very helpful to those who were perhaps a bit fuzzy on any of the moves.

Putting in *my*  tuppence worth, I say.

HEAR HEAR.

Another county heard from...

Nilos Nevertheless
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 01:41:28 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 04:40:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <11036bce.246a987c-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

So have you ever actually flogged to ECD music, Nilos?  I know you've done it 
to morris....

[Humming "Newcastle" in a speculative manner]

The ones which immediately spring to mind are
Sellinger's Round
Nottingham Swing
Speed The Plow
Black Jack
and
Female Sayler

Though that list would require several different kinds of flogger.  I would 
think Newcastle would have to be torqued fairly far out of the mode in which 
its usually played to be suitable--much heavier downbeats than are customary, 
for instance, which might render it pretty difficult to dance to (or to dance 
Newcastle to, anyway) so perhaps that doesn't count. 

And you think *clapping* distracts the musicians.....

Nilos 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 06:13:10 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 06:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Barbara Ruth <barbararuth-AT-
rocketmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990512130615.16088.rocketmail-AT-
attach1.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


---Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net> wrote:
> 
> ----------
> Nilos Nevertheless said:
> 
> > Steve Corrsin said
> >
> > >But ultimately it comes down to flogging dead horses. Now, if
only those
> > >folks could *flog* in time to the music...
> >
> > Whole different set of skills, Steve.  Not what you want on the
dance floor.
> > Trust me.
> >
> 
> So have you ever actually flogged to ECD music, Nilos?  I know
>you've done it to morris....


Goodness.  All this time I thought that was _clogging_ to morris...

Barbara R.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free -AT-
yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 08:13:37 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 11:13:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Stephen D Corrsin <sdc16-AT-
columbia.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #512
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9905121109530.19637-100000-AT-
bonjour.cc.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Comrades,

with regard to the following, let me ask the question: is this recording
produced with the knowledge and agreement of the musicians, plus suitable 
compensation? Lest I be
called alarmist, I've had more than one argument, in various places,
with folks associated with the SCA who had what may be termed a cavalier
attitude towards such questions. 

thanks for any reassurance,
Steve Crrsin


On Wed, 12 May 1999 system-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU wrote:

> ------------------------------
> 
> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 14:05:49 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Eric Praetzel <dancer-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
> Subject: dance music CDs
> Message-ID: <199905111805.OAA12512-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
> 
> Those of you on the SCA dance list-serv know about the cheap SCA dance CDs
> that I make and I've now added a more English Country CD that has some dance
> music.
> 
> The Mock Hobby Horse CD is music from an English band called Mock Hobby Horse.
> It is a nice mix of vocal and instrumental that is definately more listenable
> than many of the SCA dance music CDs I carry.
> 
> Samples of the songs on this CD (and 9 others) are available in Real Audio
> from my server at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
> or more exactly http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/CD-offer.html
> Just follow the link for each of the CDs.
> 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:39:23 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:23:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Praetzel <dancer-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: dance music on CDs
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199905121623.MAA24732-AT-
sca.uwaterloo.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/PLAIN
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

 
> with regard to the following, let me ask the question: is this recording
> produced with the knowledge and agreement of the musicians, plus suitable 
> compensation? Lest I be
> called alarmist, I've had more than one argument, in various places,
> with folks associated with the SCA who had what may be termed a cavalier
> attitude towards such questions. 

  Yes.  I have permission to make and sell all 10 audio CDs that are on my
  site.  Seven of the CDs are freely distributable but can not be sold without
  permission.  Three of the CDs have an associated royalty payment and are 
  not to be copied and distributed.

  For the Mock Hobby Horse CD; I believe that my royalty payment is less than
  what you would pay if you were buying the tape from the group in England.
  I also sell the "Tape of Dance" CDs for less than I paid for the cassette
  tapes!

  But that is just the way that this group of us is distributing CDs.  We
  refuse to handle commerical releases where we have to pay money up front.
  We make CDs on demand and in a non-profit fashion.  Technically if my 
  time was worth something then I'm doing this all at a loss.  None of us is
  even trying to break even on the cost of the CD duplicating equipment.
   
Samples of the songs on this CD (and 9 others) are available in Real Audio
from my server at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
or more exactly http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/CD-offer.html
Just follow the link for each of the CDs.

Currently my USA friend is not selling the Mock Hobby Horse.  His interest
is in SCA (pre 1650) dance music and he is not terribly fond of the concertina
use by MHH.

  - Eric Praetzel, http://sca.uwaterloo.ca
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 14:39:51 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:37:56 -0400
From: Gene Murrow <gmurrow-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199905121738_MC2-757D-32C2-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Message text written by Marian Phillips
>So have you ever actually flogged to ECD music, Nilos?  I know you've done
it to morris....

[Humming "Newcastle" in a speculative manner]<

All thif ftuff about 'flogging' through English dance mufic probably came
from mifreading a 17th C. manufcript about "flogging through Newcaftle" at
fome tempo that waf too flow for the dance.  .

Gene Murrow
in a fitting moment 
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:11:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:04:58 +0000
From: Mary Stafford <mes-AT-
world.std.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: The Fubject of flogging
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <01BE9C9A.09302780-AT-
mes.world.std.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hif refent pofting on the fubject of flogging if juft one more example of why Mr. Murrow if one of my favorite contributors to thif lift!

Mary Ftafford
Ftill thinking fondly of all the fine dancing in Weft Hartford

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:41:17 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:40:41 -0400
From: "Michael L. Siemon" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Fubject of flogging
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <v04011700b35fb3c8efd0-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>Mary Ftafford
>Ftill thinking fondly of all the fine dancing in Weft Hartford

Woof! (or should that be Warp!?)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:41:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:40:41 -0400
From: "Michael L. Siemon" <mls-AT-
panix.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Fubject of flogging
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: 'English Country Dance List' <ecd-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <v04011700b35fb3c8efd0-AT-
[166.84.193.89]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


>Mary Ftafford
>Ftill thinking fondly of all the fine dancing in Weft Hartford

Woof! (or should that be Warp!?)
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 15:46:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 18:29:39 -0400
From: sol weber <solweber-AT-
juno.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990512.182947.-134905.4.solweber-AT-
juno.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Re Gene's comment, below, I'll never forget that long-ago moment
at an Early Music Week when I heard lovely late night singing softly
wafting from C Sharp Minor.  I strolled over to this small vocal group 
gathered there and glanced over a shoulder to check out the ancient
looking sheet music.  The words were quite a contrast to the music.
It took several moments to figure out that they were actually singing
about the flowers and sucking bees!

Sol Weber, round finger

Message text written by Marian Phillips
>So have you ever actually flogged to ECD music, Nilos?  I know you've
done
it to morris....

[Humming "Newcastle" in a speculative manner]<

All thif ftuff about 'flogging' through English dance mufic probably came
from mifreading a 17th C. manufcript about "flogging through Newcaftle"
at
fome tempo that waf too flow for the dance.  .

Gene Murrow
in a fitting moment 

++++++Sol "Roundman"  Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time"
++++++25-14  37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am)
++++++SINGERS and musicians, contact me for info on books, albums, 
++++++     and assorted musical fun;  solweber-AT-
JUNO.com 
+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone.
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 20:53:08 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:38:45 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04204e05b35ff88a6f79-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <19990512.182947.-134905.4.solweber-AT-
juno.com>

>All thif ftuff about 'flogging' through English dance mufic probably came
>from mifreading a 17th C. manufcript about "flogging through Newcaftle"
>at fome tempo that waf too flow for the dance.  .

LOL this flogging stuff has brought back an early dance camp memory 
for me too. One year at camp there had been some tee-heeing about 
flogging dances to death vs flogging/clogging.  The next year, we had 
shirts made up which had a lovely design using cat and nine tails and 
somehow used flogging or flog dancing.  we thought they were a hoot. 
We wore them one afternoon.  They were met with seriously raised 
eyebrows.

Oh well. We still thought they were a hoot.

Mary Beth <-- always thought a flogging team would be a good thing 
but Ron always thought it would be like that bit in Monty Python 
where the monks hit themselves on the head with the board.....

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:32:43 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <19990512.182947.-134905.4.solweber-AT-
juno.com> with last message <v04204e05b35ff88a6f79-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>


> Mary Beth <-- always thought a flogging team would be a good thing
> but Ron always thought it would be like that bit in Monty Python
> where the monks hit themselves on the head with the board.....
>
>

You fay that af if it'f a bad thing....

Marian

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:56:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 01:54:42 -0400
From: Mary Beth Goodman <mgoodman-AT-
albany.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v04204e08b3601949210c-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <19990512.182947.-134905.4.solweber-AT-
juno.com> with last message <v04204e05b35ff88a6f79-AT-
[206.72.193.237]> <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>

> > Mary Beth <-- always thought a flogging team would be a good thing
> > but Ron always thought it would be like that bit in Monty Python
> > where the monks hit themselves on the head with the board.....
> >
> >
>
>You fay that af if it'f a bad thing....
>
>Marian

LOL We LIKED the idea, but estimated the amount of tylenol needed to 
support the team would be prohibitive.

Mary Beth <-- not dead yet

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:12:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:07:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Heyer <Heyer-AT-
concentric.net>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <MAPI.Id.0016.00657965722020203030303530303035-AT-
MAPI.to.RFC822>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; X-MAPIextension=.TXT; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: Conversation <11036bce.246a987c-AT-
aol.com> with last message <11036bce.246a987c-AT-
aol.com>

Nilos sez:

 I would
> think Newcastle would have to be torqued fairly far out of the mode in which
> its usually played to be suitable--much heavier downbeats than are customary,
> for instance,

I think the main reason Newcastle came to mind is that you can sing "Casey at the Bat" to it, which makes it easy to pull up the tune -- funny how words make it so much easier to remember a tune, like "Liliburlero and Doublemint gum."

Actually, it's a big lie about that being my main reason.  I was originally going to say that the main reason was that the Broadside Band version has this great crashing harpsichord part that does emphasize the downbeats, but fortunately I listened to it again just before I wrote that and realized that the great crashing harpsichord part was entirely in my head.

Well, if you could hear the version of Newcastle that's in my head, you'd agree that it's perfect flogging music.  Although I must admit that when I danced Newcastle for the first time recently, it wasn't quite as exciting as I'd imagined it would be.  Not enough crashing....

Of course, the solution that would probably make any tune good flogging music would be to choke up on the flogger and do that twirling thing where most of the action is in your wrist and you can do it really fast.  I daresay there's a name for it -- there seems to be a name for everything (she said, thoughtfully rubbing her philtrum).

Marian





================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:16:20 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:16:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990513031407.13551E-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Wed, 12 May 1999, sol weber wrote:

> Re Gene's comment, below, I'll never forget that long-ago moment
> at an Early Music Week when I heard lovely late night singing softly
> wafting from C Sharp Minor.  I strolled over to this small vocal group 
> gathered there and glanced over a shoulder to check out the ancient
> looking sheet music.  The words were quite a contrast to the music.
> It took several moments to figure out that they were actually singing
> about the flowers and sucking bees!

You're probably referring to John Wilbye's madrigal "Sweet honey-sucking
bees." Yes, that's quite a lovely piece - and really interesting how it's
put together. For instance, there's one passage:

"For if one flaming dart come from her eye
Was never dart so sharp! Ah, then you die!"

On the word "sharp" all the voices actually sing sharp notes!

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 00:17:56 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 03:17:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dawn Culbertson <dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: The Fubject of flogging
To: 'English Country Dance List' <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.990513031629.13551F-100000-AT-
gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


On Wed, 12 May 1999, Mary Stafford wrote:

> Hif refent pofting on the fubject of flogging if juft one more example of why Mr. Murrow if one of my favorite contributors to thif lift!
> 
> Mary Ftafford
> Ftill thinking fondly of all the fine dancing in Weft Hartford
> 
And then there's that famous quote by Geoffrey Chaucer:
"Who in the claff can fpell Miffiffippi?" :-)

Dawn Culbertson
dcculb-AT-
peabody.jhu.edu 

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 05:37:41 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:46:16 +0000
From: Mary E Jones <mjones-AT-
javanet.com>
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <373A8348.1531-AT-
javanet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT
References: <19990512.182947.-134905.4.solweber-AT-
juno.com> <v04204e05b35ff88a6f79-AT-
[206.72.193.237]>

This message is from Nancy Parr whose server refuses to be a part of
this nonsense:

  
> Af a follow-up to Gene'f note, I tried to fend a note to the lift, fuggefting that people could come fee for themfelvef that hif
> tempof would not be too flow with the fubfequent refult of flogging.  

Gene will be calling a dance, using all the letters of the modern
alphabet (God willing!), in South Amherst, MA this Saturday at Munson
Library beginning at 8 pm.  Music will be provided by the wonderful,
perfect-tempo-maintaining band, Pleasures of the Town.

See you there!

Mary (thoroughly modern) Jones
Amherst, MA
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 06:40:57 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tideswell-AT-
aol.com
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re:  Re:  flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <e6315b2b.246c2ff9-AT-
aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Marian said

>I think the main reason Newcastle came to mind is that you can sing "Casey 
at the Bat" to it, >which makes it easy to pull up the tune -- funny how 
words make it so much easier to remember >a tune, like "Liliburlero and 
Doublemint gum."

"Casey at the Bat", huh?  Maybe thinking of that will silence that little 
voice in my head which starts singing:

"Shipped ye not coals to Newcastle?
 Shipped ye not coals aw-a-ay?....."

Anybody else have non-sequitorial words which fall into place in ECD tunes?

just doing what the little voices tell me to

Nilos
PS  If you want thumpity-bumpity versions of ECD tunes, you can scarcely do 
better than the albumn "The Compleat Dancing Master" released, um, sometime 
in the 70's?  By, um, by various artists... 
Can some better-informed dancer out there fill in the blanks?  Or point the 
way to similar renditions?
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:30:13 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:26:00 -0400
From: "Fager, Martin" <Martin.Fager-AT-
Bowne.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: flogging (was clapping)
To: "\"ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU\" " <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, "\"Tideswell-AT-
aol.com\" " <Tideswell-AT-
aol.com>
Message-ID: <199905131430.KAA09426-AT-
gate.bowne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

     
     Nilos Nevertheless wrote,
  If you want thumpity-bumpity versions of ECD tunes, you can scarcely do 
better than the albumn "The Compleat Dancing Master" released, um, sometime 
in the 70's?  By, um, by various artists...
Can some better-informed dancer out there fill in the blanks?  Or point the 
way to similar renditions?
     
     *******************************************************
     
     "The Compleat Dancing Master," the title an obvious nod to Playford, 
     was performed by members of the English folk-rock band Fairport 
     Convention, along with some of their musical friends.  The band still 
     exists despite too many member changes, but originally included such 
     luminaries as Richard Thompson and the late lamented Sandy Denny, who 
     was a wonderfully evocative singer (and a good songwriter - she wrote 
     "Who Knows Where The Time Goes".)  Despite my then musical bias toward 
     hard rock, I always loved good folk rock, and bought Fairport's albums 
     as they came out.  Because of the personnel I bought the Compleat 
     Dancing Master album also, and found it curious but quite enjoyable.  
     In the novel of my life that sometimes plays in my head, little did I 
     know that this album was a major foreshadowing of things to come, as 
     ten years later I would discover ECD, and be dancing to some of the 
     tunes on the album.  At least two of the early Fairport Convention 
     albums are available on CD, and well worth owning.  Their rendition of 
     "She Moves Through The Fair" on their first album still thrills me 
     after almost thirty years.  I think Richard Thompson also was (is?) a 
     morris dancer.  He played on the "Morris On" album so beloved of some 
     morris types.  On that album they almost manage to make morris tunes 
     tolerable.  Almost...  I can all too easily imagine flogging to morris 
     tunes.  Thanks for the lead-in, Nilos, and where were you when CDNY's 
     Playford Ball rolled around?
     
     Marty Fager
     
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 07:40:50 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:40:05 -0400
From: Joyce Crouch <joycecrouch-AT-
compuserve.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Message-ID: <199905131040_MC2-7596-D98E-AT-
compuserve.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Hello, all,

>>>Gene will be calling a dance, using all the letters of the modern
alphabet (God willing!), in South Amherst, MA this Saturday at Munson
Library beginning at 8 pm.  Music will be provided by the wonderful,
perfect-tempo-maintaining band, Pleasures of the Town.<<<

Many thanks to Mary Jones for her kind words about our band, but I hasten,
in this context, to point out that in our minds the Pleasures referred to
in our band name are strictly those of elegant, exuberant, enthusiastic
English country dancing.  

*That* is what we love to see out on the floor as we play.  Most definitely
not, I am afraid, flogging, slogging, or even clogging.  

Of course, ranting, and raving (about the caller, fellow dancers, our
music, the beauty of a May evening in Amherst...) are perfectly okay.  :-)

Joyce Crouch
Amherst, MA



================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:03:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:03:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jonathan Sivier <j-sivier-AT-
ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: That *other* S-F saga (as we try to ignore Star Wars)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <199905131503.KAA18129-AT-
staff1.cso.uiuc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Mary Beth Goodman writes:
> 
> > > Mary Beth <-- always thought a flogging team would be a good thing
> > > but Ron always thought it would be like that bit in Monty Python
> > > where the monks hit themselves on the head with the board.....
> > >
> > >
> >
> >You fay that af if it'f a bad thing....
> >
> >Marian
> 
> LOL We LIKED the idea, but estimated the amount of tylenol needed to 
> support the team would be prohibitive.
> 
> Mary Beth <-- not dead yet

    To get back (somewhat) to where this thread started (I think), you
could call the dance the Flagenella.  ;-)

    As far as dances taken from Monty Python goes, I think the "Fish Slapping
Dance" might be a better model.

Jonathan "just let me whip into something more comfortable" Sivier

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Jonathan Sivier               |Q: How many angels can dance on the   |
|  j-sivier-AT-
uiuc.edu             |   head of a pin?                     |
|  Flight Simulation Lab         |A: It depends on what dance you call. |
|  Beckman Institute             |                                      |
|  405 N. Mathews                |  SWMDG - Single White Male           |
|  Urbana, IL  61801             |          Dance Gypsy                 |
|  Work: 217/244-1923            |                                      |
|  Home: 217/359-8225            |  Have shoes, will dance.             |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier                   |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:55:35 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 09:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Re: flogging (was clapping)
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990513095003.3317C-100000-AT-
crl2.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Thu, 13 May 1999 Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:

> Anybody else have non-sequitorial words which fall into place in ECD tunes?

"London Bridge is Falling Down" fits distressingly well into the B part 
of "Rufty Tufty", at least until the last line.
 
> PS  If you want thumpity-bumpity versions of ECD tunes, you can scarcely do 
> better than the albumn "The Compleat Dancing Master" released, um, sometime 
> in the 70's?  By, um, by various artists... 
> Can some better-informed dancer out there fill in the blanks?  Or point the 
> way to similar renditions?

The leading lights of that production were John Kirkpatrick and Ashley 
Hutchings; it's usually cataloged under one of their names. And it's been 
reissued on Hannibal.

Meanwhile, if you want more in that style, check out "7 to Midnight" by 
Pyewackett, available from CDSS (but not, I think, on CD).

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:28:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:31:29 -0600
From: rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton)
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <v01540b07b360bb4e7756-AT-
[155.99.169.243]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

It's not non-sequitorial, but I always hum "broom, the broom, the bonny
bonny broom; broom, the bonny bonny broom." etc etc, to the obvious tune.

Does anyone know anything about that dance title, why it's called that,
whether there are words (and if so did I get them right)? :-)

Emma

-
Emma Rushton,
Department of Biology,
University of Utah,
257 South, 1400 East
Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840

(801) 585-1926 (office)
(801) 585-9425 (lab)
(801) 581-4668 (fax)

rushton-AT-
biology.utah.edu


================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:44:39 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:44:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing <winston-AT-
SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Message-ID: <01JB59BL41X29ED9BN-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT


Emma remarked:

  It's not non-sequitorial, but I always hum "broom, the broom, the bonny
  bonny broom; broom, the bonny bonny broom." etc etc, to the obvious tune.

  Does anyone know anything about that dance title, why it's called that,
  whether there are words (and if so did I get them right)? :-)

Well, my non-dancing friend Robbie Bourget (a bilingual Canadian
sufficiently pleased with her English heritage that she's living in England
now, although that may also be partly in response to an obsessive interest
in DR. WHO) once heard me humming the tune and said "I know that song!",
then sang part of it.  All I remember now is "Broom, broom, the bonny bonny
broom, the broom of the Cowdenknowes. . . "

So I think there are words, but I can't say what they are, and I'm too 
lazy to go check out Digital Tradition right now.

-- Alan



===============================================================================
 Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT-
SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
 Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL   Phone:  650/926-3056
 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA  94309-0210
===============================================================================

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:09:14 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:03:00 -0400
From: "Fager, Martin" <Martin.Fager-AT-
Bowne.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: RE: flogging (was clapping)
To: "\"ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU\" " <ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, "\"Paul J. Stamler\" " <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Message-ID: <199905131810.OAA24431-AT-
gate.bowne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

     

On Thu, 13 May 1999 Tideswell-AT-
aol.com wrote:
     
> Anybody else have non-sequitorial words which fall into place in ECD
tunes?
     
     It may not be non-sequitorial, but I can't dance Lili Burlero without 
     thinking of that bawdy ditty, "My Thing Is My Own," which is sung to 
     the same tune.
     
     Marty Fager
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:26:34 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 11:13:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul J. Stamler" <pstamler-AT-
crl.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
CC: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990513111224.20355A-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

On Thu, 13 May 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:

> It's not non-sequitorial, but I always hum "broom, the broom, the bonny
> bonny broom; broom, the bonny bonny broom." etc etc, to the obvious tune.
> 
> Does anyone know anything about that dance title, why it's called that,
> whether there are words (and if so did I get them right)? :-)

Check out the traditional Scots song "Broom of the Cowdenknowes", which I 
believe is available from Digital Tradition:

http://www.mudcat.com/

Peace.
Paul
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:00:54 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:00:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Arnold <eba-AT-
umich.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.9905131457270.9742-100000-AT-
stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT



On Thu, 13 May 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:

 . . .

> Does anyone know anything about that dance title, why it's called that,
> whether there are words (and if so did I get them right)? :-)

I believe the title refers to a flowering plant, one form of which, at
least, I have heard called "Scotch broom."

From "Britannica Online":

any of several shrubs or small trees of the genus
  Cytisus, of the pea family (Faba ceae), native to
  temperate regions of Europe and western Asia.
  They are also cultivated in other regions, chiefly
  for their attractive flowers. . .

Eric Arnold
 Ann Arbor

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:20:21 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:20:21 -0400
From: Torbin <torbin-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #512
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <373B17E2.CD5E57D6-AT-
mail.interlog.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.GSO.4.10.9905121109530.19637-100000-AT-
bonjour.cc.columbia.edu>



Stephen D Corrsin wrote:

> Comrades,
>
> with regard to the following, let me ask the question: is this recording
> produced with the knowledge and agreement of the musicians, plus suitable
> compensation? Lest I be
> called alarmist, I've had more than one argument, in various places,
> with folks associated with the SCA who had what may be termed a cavalier
> attitude towards such questions.

When Eric first posted his intention to have excerpts on his website, I asked him
the same question. Since the question implies a criticism, I did so privately, not
via the mailing list, just as I am doing now.

As many people are cavalier about copyright, it is a legitimate question. However,
I think justifying the question by implying guilt by association was unnecessarily
offensive.

Torbin

================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:27:38 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 15:26:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: JoAnne Rawls <ljrawls-AT-
hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <19990513192646.7795.qmail-AT-
hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Emma asks (re. Broom, the Bonny, Bonny Broom):
>
>Does anyone know anything about that dance title, why it's called that,
>whether there are words (and if so did I get them right)? :-)

A man in our dance group claims that it's about an illicit pregnancy, but I 
don't know how reliable that information is. Anybody?

JoAnne
Newport News, VA


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
================================================================================
Archive-Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 12:28:19 PST
Sender: owner-ecd-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 19:25:40 +0000
From: "Lawrence N. Stout" <lstout-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>
Reply-To: ECD-AT-
playford.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: words to tunes
To: ECD-AT-
SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Message-ID: <373B2734.8699919A-AT-
sun.iwu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.990513111224.20355A-100000-AT-
crl3.crl.com>

"Paul J. Stamler" wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 13 May 1999, Emma Rushton wrote:
> 
> > It's not non-sequitorial, but I always hum "broom, the broom, the bonny
> > bonn