Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:39:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 16:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Philippe Callens in Titusville, NJ--Friday, April 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT With apologies for the conflict with Good Friday... Philippe Callens' next appearance in the U.S. will be at the First Friday English dance in Titusville, NJ (sponsored by the Lambertville Country Dancers); music by Cynthia Simonoff, Paul Prestopino, Susie Lorand, and friend(s). Time: 8-11 p.m., but come early if you'd like to help set up. Admission is discounted for those bringing homemade goodies to share. (We hope to have some that are suitable for Passover. Fresh fruit is always welcome!) Location: Education building of Titusville United Methodist Church, just off River Road (Route 29) on Church Road (1st traffic light south of Lambertville; 2nd traffic light north of I-95). More detailed directions can be found on our web page, , or e-mail me off-list (before 4 p.m. Friday!). Phone nos. for info: 609-252-0248; 609-882-7733; 609-393-3762. Also: Saturday, April 3, Philippe gives a workshop and calls the evening English dance at Summit Church in Philadelphia. Check their web page for more details: . See you there! Susie Lorand Princeton, NJ, USA, etc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 14:45:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 17:45:09 -0500 From: JHMTurner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Review To: ECD List Message-ID: <199904011745_MC2-7054-2D99-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Review ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 01:23:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 10:19:48 +0100 From: Barry McNamara Subject: Re: Review To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <003101be7cea$19ce6220$c7078cd4-AT- wilf> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What are we reviewing today John or are we just "having a senior moment " as Terry would say ?????"""""*********** don't worry John your secret is well kept , it's the age factor ! from someone who is a regular in the senior moment business. -----Original Message----- From: JHMTurner To: ECD List Date: 01 April 1999 23:49 Subject: Review Review ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 11:19:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 20:14:54 +0100 From: Barry McNamara Subject: An apology To: "ECD-AT- playford" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <001b01be7d3d$4214f7a0$88128cd4-AT- wilf> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_H6M+BrZdXKjJXBcrkWaJIA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_H6M+BrZdXKjJXBcrkWaJIA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My apology to all for today's indiscretion.Yes, a real senior moment. --Boundary_(ID_H6M+BrZdXKjJXBcrkWaJIA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
My apology to all for today's indiscretion.Yes, a real senior moment.
--Boundary_(ID_H6M+BrZdXKjJXBcrkWaJIA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 11:12:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 15:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Easter Tuesday To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barlow lists a tune by the name of "Easter Tuesday," as a tune new to the 9th edition of Playfrod (1695), and I vaguely recall seeing a dance by that name somewhere. My indices (Rogers 1986 and McIntyre & Howe 1992) don't list a dance by that name. I'd like to determine if a dance by that name actually exists, and if so, I'd like to get the instructions. Any help anyone on this list can provide would be highly appreciated. Thanks! Eric Arnold (who just did "Easter Eve" yesterday evening to lead off the dances in the English session at the Ann Arbor Dawn Dance weekend, and who has another dance to call this coming Tuesday...) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 18:19:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 22:21:15 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Easter Tuesday To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904050309.XAA23953-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Per Eric's request. Easter Tuesday (longways duple minor) A1 1-4 M1 cast to 2nd place & turn single. (M2 moving up.) A2 1-4 W1 cast to 2nd place & turn single. (W2 moving up.) B1 1-4 Partners back to back. 5-8 Neighbors back to back. B2 1-4 Rights & lefts 4 changes. There is also a very different dance to an interesting tune in Walsh called "White hard Cabages; or Easter Tuesday." (Boring dance for the 2s and 3s though.) ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 14:48:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 17:48:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Easter Tuesday To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks, Rich (& the others who helped through responses directly to me). Do you know a simple way to access "Walsh" akin to the Playford publications available on the web through L.C.? Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:29:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:29:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Subject: NYC Playford To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <83882bc5.243acb78-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm looking for a ride to the Northampton area after the upcoming NYC Playford. Does anybody out there know of someone from that part of the world who is driving to NY for the Ball? Thanks! Nilos Nevertheless ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:33:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:34:43 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Easter Tuesday To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904060523.BAA24787-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To the best of my knowledge, "Walsh" is not yet available on the Web. The Library of Congress has copies of books 1 and 2 of his "Compleat Country Dancing Master," so I expect they will eventually add it to their "An American Ballroom Companion: Dance Instruction Manuals" web site. And, Sharon kindly pointed out that B2 should read "1-8," not "1-4". (Hey, I'm never a good proof-reader and the dryer was buzzing . . . ) Anyway, I understand from Mary Kay, that Jacqueline Schwab has also interpreted this dance. More or less identical to the one I gave, except, of course, that B1 and B2 have the same number of bars in her version. :-) > Thanks, Rich (& the others who helped through responses directly to me). > Do you know a simple way to access "Walsh" akin to the Playford > publications available on the web through L.C.? > > Eric > > > ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:55:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 00:44:55 -0400 From: catdancer-AT- juno.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NYC Playford To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990406.015301.8998.27.catdancer-AT- juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <83882bc5.243acb78-AT- aol.com> Hi Nilos - As Hospitality coordinator, I do have a small bit of information that may help you. Robin Hayden will be coming to the ball. However, she is not driving home that night - she is planning to stay with the Murrows. The only other person I know of is Victor Skowronski who is from Woburn MA (wherever that is). I also heard through the grapevine that Frank Attanasio will be coming, but I don't have him on my list. He's also more from the Boston area than Northampton. If you're really stuck, you can get a Peter Pan bus from Port Authority to Northampton. I forgot how much the fare is, but the ride isn't bad. Glad you'll be with us for the ball. It wouldn't be special without you. Helen On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 22:29:12 -0400 (EDT) Tideswell-AT- aol.com writes: >I'm looking for a ride to the Northampton area after the upcoming NYC >Playford. Does anybody out there know of someone from that part of >the world >who is driving to NY for the Ball? > >Thanks! > >Nilos Nevertheless > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:49:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 15:49:23 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: ECD admin note: Recent digest problems To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01J9PV7CFMS09ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- Yesterday evening, digest subscribes received number 486 after a few weeks of silence. It was much larger than usual. I haven't had any "mailbox full" bounces from it, for which I'm grateful. Short form: There was a problem. It's fixed now. I'm sorry. If you want to know grittier details, read on: There's supposed to be a job that runs every night on my workstation that reviews the stock of ECD posts and, if there are enough to make it worthwhile, or if it's been more than three days since the last digest and there are _any_ posts, sends out a digest. The scheduling process that runs the digestifier (as well as a few other things) died while I was out of town for ten days, and I didn't notice until yesterday when something else failed to run. So I restarted the scheduler, it ran the digester on everything that hadn't been sent, and you got a big honkin' digest. Sorry about that; it's the first time I've had a problem with the scheduler. I've been asked a couple of times whether I could make the digestifier put the posts in chronological order, or subject line order, or (my favorite) chronological within subject line. This request is more pressing when you get a digest with 42 messages in apparently random order. Unfortunately, I can't easily do this. I'd have to rewrite the digestifier, and it would need to read all the mail messages and sort them in memory in chronological order -- personally, I'd prefer chronological within subject line, so you'd have threads together -- and write them out, and I just haven't had time to mess with it. The digestifier is freeware, like the mailing list manager, and it works really reliably, also llike the mailing list manager, so I'd rather not take a chance on screwing it up, especially in the limited amount of free time I have to make changes. And it's hard to test. This isn't that big an annoyance when it comes more frequently. My apologies for the inconvenience, and for being sufficiently distracted by other stuff that I didn't figure it out immediately upon my return. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:31:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 16:30:49 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: ECD: A Trip to Virginia; improved? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01J9PVRA46WI9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- With a trip to Colonial Williamsburg in prospect, I was intrigued to find A TRIP TO VIRGINIA in Fallibroome vol 3. (I also have a vague project of checking all the dances in Barnes, at least well enough to determine whether they have a place in my repertoire.) Below is my close paraphrase of the Fallibroome rendition of the dance, so you can see what I'm talking about. (I wouldn't post somebody's newly-composed dance without their permission; I figure dances from 1750 are probably fair game.) ============================== A TRIP TO VIRGINIA (Johnson, 1750, Fallibroome 3) Barnes, B-flat, key 2/4 Longways triple minor (perhaps best done in Scottish-style 4-couple sets). * * * * A1: 1s and 2s set and change places with partner; repeat to place. A2: 1s cross, go below 2s (who move up) and turn two-hands halfway. B1: 1s set diagonally to the right diagonal; turn them and finish facing the other diagonal from an improper place (in the same line as them); turn the other diagonal two hands and finish improper in middle. B2: Circle six to the left once round; 1s half-figure 8 up to end proper and progressed. ================================ Some comments: Bentley doesn't generally give you a lot of help on timing, or a lot of explicitness about where you end up facing after turns. The tune is a sprightly jig, but it doesn't seem to be killer. The timing on A2 seems odd. If it breaks down as Measures 1-2: Cross 3-4: Cast 5-8: Turn two hands halfway there's an awful lot of time to turn halfway. The people I watched make this part look good did a very wide cross and cast, arrived in improper place at about measure six, and then did a skipping turn one and a half. The timing would be sort of vaguely plausible if this were originally a minuet, but the music doesn't suggest (to me, anyway) that it was. B1 is very cool, but geographically very confusing to people who don't know offhand who their contra corners are. If you do the 4-couple longways, everybody only gets two chances at being first couple, so they don't have a lot of time to figure it out, but the dance doesn't seem to justify taking the time to walk all four couples. Unfortunately, confusion in B1 is fatal because you end up late to start the circle in B2 (which seems to need to be a slipping circle to get all the way around in four) anyway, and if you're late for that there's no time to recover before the next round of the dance. So, first, has anyone out there who's done the dance have comments on timing or geography? Second, can someone with access to Johnson comment on Bentley's interpretation? Otherwise, I have some changes that I think can make the dance less of a challenge to enjoy. This is revision, not interpretation, and I haven't had a chance to try it yet, although I probably will this Friday. ********** A2: 1s cross, go below 2s (who move up) and turn right hands once or twice, ending improper facing left. (1st contra corner if you were proper.) B1: 1s on the line set to the left-hand person; turn them right hand all the way, ending in the same spot but facing right-hand person. Set, turn right hand all the way, ending in the middle facing in, ready for B2. ********** -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:00:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 21:59:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Tideswell-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: ECD: A Trip to Virginia; improved? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <2d77a3ed.243c15eb-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > (I wouldn't post somebody's >newly-composed dance without their permission; I figure dances from 1750 >are probably fair game.) Depends on what you mean by 'new', I guess. In geological time that's a mere nothing..... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 19:33:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 22:33:26 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD: A Trip to Virginia; improved? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 9:59 PM -0400 4/6/99, Tideswell-AT- aol.com wrote: >> (I wouldn't post somebody's >>newly-composed dance without their permission; I figure dances from 1750 >>are probably fair game.) > >Depends on what you mean by 'new', I guess. In geological time that's a mere >nothing..... Ah, but does Barney (or anyone) have a genetic memory of the English Country Dances of the Triassic? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:11:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 00:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: ECD: A Trip to Virginia; improved? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01J9QCUPGBIW9EFOB4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>> (I wouldn't post somebody's >>>newly-composed dance without their permission; I figure dances from 1750 >>>are probably fair game.) >> >>Depends on what you mean by 'new', I guess. In geological time that's a mere >>nothing..... >Ah, but does Barney (or anyone) have a genetic memory of the English >Country Dances of the Triassic? More appropriately for English Country Dancing, the Devonian. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 11:22:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 13:48:54 -0400 From: "Registrar, Washington Spring Ball" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Washington Spring Ball, May 15 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990410134103.0096a490-AT- 206.239.214.10> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_wbXXxA3XX2AXFAmxuqAplg)" --Boundary_(ID_wbXXxA3XX2AXFAmxuqAplg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Folklore Society of Greater Washington Annual Washington Spring Ball Saturday, May 15, 1999 NOTE CHANGE OF VENUE: since our last post to the listserv, the location of the Ball has changed to the Whitby Gym; we are sad to say that the Forest Glen Ballroom is not available due fire code standards not being met. We are happy to report that registrations are moving smoothly and many out-of-town dancers have already registered. We hope that more readers of the ECD listserv at the Ball. Playing at this year's Ball will be musicians Liz Donaldson (piano), Andrea Hoag (violin) and Marty Taylor (flute). Admission is by prior reservation: $20 for members of FSGW, BFMS or CDSS; $22 for nonmembers. Reception: 7:30 p.m. Dance: 8:00 p.m. This year, dances WILL be called for a few rounds; there will be no walk-throughs. Dancers will be expected to be familiar with the program, which is being practiced during out regular weekly dances. A practice session will be conducted at Rosemary Hills Elementary School on the afternoon of the Ball from 2:00-4:00. Hospitality is being provided by local dancers. For more info, make our web site your first visit: www.just.net/~roger/ball99.html, or, contact the Ball Chair, Stephanie Smith, at 301-229-3577; Roger Broseus via Email: English-AT- fsgw.org. The program of dances, driving directions, and a registration form, appear at the web site. Roger W. Broseus Registrar, Washington Spring Ball Ido-AT- exist.com H: 301-365-0611 W: 301-496-5774 --Boundary_(ID_wbXXxA3XX2AXFAmxuqAplg) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Folklore Society of Greater Washington
Annual Washington Spring Ball
Saturday, May 15, 1999

NOTE CHANGE OF VENUE: since our last post to the listserv, the location of the Ball has changed to the Whitby Gym; we are sad to say that the Forest Glen Ballroom is not available due fire code standards not being met.

We are happy to report that registrations are moving smoothly and many out-of-town dancers have already registered.  We hope that more readers of the ECD listserv at the Ball.

Playing at this year's Ball will be musicians Liz Donaldson (piano), Andrea Hoag (violin) and Marty Taylor (flute). Admission is by prior reservation:  $20 for members of FSGW, BFMS or CDSS; $22 for nonmembers.  Reception: 7:30 p.m.  Dance: 8:00 p.m.

This year, dances WILL be called for a few rounds; there will be no walk-throughs.  Dancers will be expected to be familiar with the program, which is being practiced during out regular weekly dances. A practice session will be conducted at Rosemary Hills Elementary School on the afternoon of the Ball from 2:00-4:00.  Hospitality is being provided by local dancers.

For more info, make our web site your first visit: www.just.net/~roger/ball99.html, or, contact the Ball Chair, Stephanie Smith, at 301-229-3577; Roger Broseus  via Email: English-AT- fsgw.org.  The program of dances, driving directions, and a registration form, appear at the web site.

Roger W. Broseus
Registrar, Washington Spring Ball
Ido-AT- exist.com
H: 301-365-0611 W: 301-496-5774 --Boundary_(ID_wbXXxA3XX2AXFAmxuqAplg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:47:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:50:43 -0400 From: Paul Rosenberg Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Overnight accommodations To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990410155043.007fe320-AT- mail1.wizvax.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Barbara, I think I may need overnight accomadations. My preference is to be staying somewhere on the way back toward Albany. I am good for driving 30 to 60 minutes after a dance. So if you know anyone who lives around the Hartford or Litchfield areas, that would be perfect. But, I'll take whatever I can get. Also, we'll need directions to the hall. I will probably be coming from through Litchfield, via Route 63, the scenic route. The others are coming from I-91 (Peter Siegel & Stefan Amidon) and NYC (Michael Gorin- but maybe he knows how to get there). I believe the others will be heading home after the dance. Shalom, Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 12:55:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 15:58:52 -0400 From: Paul Rosenberg Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Apology....and Disregard my overnight accomodation message! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990410155852.007f1630-AT- mail1.wizvax.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry about that, folks! I thought I was sending a message to Barbara Ruth about the dance I'm calling in New Haven next week! Now people in all corners of the world will be trying to figure out how to find lodging for me. But if one of you lives around Litchfield, Connecticut, maybe this will work out anyway! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 20:41:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 23:40:22 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Fried-for-All registration To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: JBGrun-AT- aol.com, jraskin-AT- wmht.org Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <455414c3.2442c526-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: FRIED-FOR-ALL 1999 COMMITTEE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Judy Grunberg Organizer Julie Raskin Registrar David Barnert Husband of the registrar Keeper of the database Lord High Everything Else Today (Sunday) was the cutoff date for the first round of registration for the Fried-for-All, to be held June 11 - 13 in Lenox, MA. The three of us opened all the envelopes that have arrived to date and tabulated what we have. All registrants that we have entries for at this time are in. Confirmations will be mailed soon. We still have a limited amount of space for single men and couples. Due to the preponderance of single women among the registrants, we must start a waiting list for single women if any more apply. Further questions, and for additional registration fliers, contact Judy Grunberg . ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 09:24:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:17:43 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fried for All To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904121220_MC2-715A-D61-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Dave - thanks for the reminder... Apparently the early registration cutoff (May 1 as per brochure) stops being sufficient time to be assured admission. So all you Fried-dance lovers, get to it! I have decided, after two failed attempts of a "Fried for Fall" (insufficient registration both times) to not try again. If any other goup is interested to learn about the facility just outside of Philly, PA, let me know. Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:27:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:24:53 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Sicilian/Circassian To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904141427_MC2-71EE-CB7-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - question: do the terms 'Sicilian Circle' and 'Circassian Circle' just refer to the formations or are there specific dances with those names? I've read somewhere that 'Sicilian Circle' started out as 'Cecilian...' in honor of St. Cecilia. Does anyone have details? _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:57:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 11:57:31 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JA0SNHP4309ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hanny asked: >question: do the terms 'Sicilian Circle' and 'Circassian Circle' just refer >to the formations or are there specific dances with those names? I've read >somewhere that 'Sicilian Circle' started out as 'Cecilian...' >in honor of St. Cecilia. Does anyone have details? The Community Dance Manuals list a "The Circassian Circle and the Big Circle" dance, which is actually, two, two, two dances in one. I've never done it, but here's the notation: --------------------------------------- CIRCASSIAN (and BIG) CIRCLE (CDM) Music: A jig tune for part one, a reel for part 2. APW interprets: Do part one til you're bored, then do part 2. Part I: Sicilian Circle A1: Right and left through (or girls cross left, men cross right), repeat to places. A2: Partners balance and swing. B1: Ladies Chain B2: Swing and change OR promenade to next couple Part II: Big Circle A1: Forward and back twice A2: Women to center and back to place Men to center and back to woman originally on his left (not partner). B1: They swing B2: Promenade around, open to to big circle. --------------------------------------------- Someone on the eceilidh mailing list writes of doing an hour-long dance slot for a bunch of medical students who turned out to be drunk out of their minds, in a completely good natured way. The only thing he could get them doing was the first part of Circassian Circle, and he couldn't get them to progress, so he and his band just did the first part of Circassian Circle, changing tunes every so often, for forty-five minutes, while the medical students jovially continued to do the same four figures with the same four people until they were exhausted. They loved it, and asked him back the next year. [I haven't looked this up so may have details wrong, but that's how I remember the story.] To salve my conscience for posting this notation without permission, let me encourage everyone on the list to buy the Community Dances Manuals (7 volumes in 1) published by EFDSS if you don't already have it. There are many cool dances in there, an interesting glossary by Tony Parkes, a hundred great tunes which are mostly not in Barnes, and some interesting reading. The dances tend to be robust. While I'm on about it, I wish EFDSS would publish a supplement with just the tunes. Musicians are understandably reluctant to pop nearly twice as much as the Barnes book costs to get 1/4 as many tunes, and it gets pretty pricey for a caller to get four copies, so we always end up photocopying the tunes we need and feeling vaguely guilty. Many of the dances are "any good jig" or "any rant tune", but this tends not to work so well if your band hasn't played much for this kind of dancing. But I digress. CDM doesn't say why it's called "Circassian Circle"; presumably that's what the person who collected wrote down, possibly mistakenly. I presume "Sicilian" and "Circassian" are the same thing; I use "Sicilian" because Sicily is more familiar than Circassia, although I doubt either one has anything to do with the origin. I'm inclined to doubt that it's "Cecelian" in honor of St. Cecelia, either; that sounds suspiciously like an SCA/Renfaire backformation. [I am gratuitously reminded of the recent rec.folk-dancing posting from somebody who thought "Road to the Isles" might be a Renaissance dance. The punchline, such as it is, is that he actually meant "Gie Gordons."] -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:22:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:22:03 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: UK Guardian (online) article on radical ECD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JA0U2DF2KC9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- I was alerted to this by a posting on the eceilidh list. The Guardian Online web site has an interesting article, called (for reasons not obvious to me, except that the British media always like to take the piss out of Morris men) "Morris men, your days are numbered." It's about a guy named Graeme Miller, who appears to be a choreographer, who has put together a show called "Country Dance" that opens at "The Place" next week. He caught, says the Guardian, the tail end of Cecil Sharp's folk revival, Maypole dancing and doing the gallop in the 1950s and 60s. [I'm glad the Guardian knows who Sharp is. I have no idea how you determine that that is the tail end of Sharp's folk revival, unless you consider the broad culture folk revival of the sixties and seventies to have ended Sharp's. The article seems to be not altogether clueless about country dancing, and I think the writer is enthusiastic about the idea.] Much stuff about how British culture needs a shake up and this could be what does it. "It is a question of abandoning tradition and grabbing what is in front of you. It is a kind of piracy. 'Country Dance' will be the whole country, its chip shops and mobile phones and TV transmitters held up in a kind of kaleidoscope. It would be great to have English country dancing done to breakbeat and garage. He pauses and grins: 'The result is going to be alarmingly quirky - the head of a donkey sewn on to the body of a dog, a Frankenstein built of robbed parts.' Anyway, the URL for the article is http://www.newsunlimited.co.uk/The_Paper/Daily/0,2846,42230,00.html or you can can go to http://www.guardian.co.uk/ and try to follow the links (it's not 100% obvious what to do) to an article called "Morris men, your days are numbered" If anybody is in the position to see the show and report back, or provide some kind of context I'm missing, I'd certainly be extremely interested. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 13:31:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:33:07 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The way I understand it, Circassian Circle is the name of a specific dance (or variations thereof), and Sicilian Circle is the name of a formation - two facing two in a circle around the room. Double Sicilian Circle is a formation sometimes used in very large ceilidhs. In this, four face four around the room. Your partner is next to you, and you all progress as a foursome. Where or what is Circassia? I second Alan Winston's recommendation of the Community Dance Manual. It's an excellent source of easier dances, and has some great tunes. We use it all the time. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:36:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:36:03 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37150a43.31c4.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emma Rushton Wrote: >The way I understand it, Circassian Circle is the name of a specific dance >(or variations thereof), and Sicilian Circle is the name of a formation - >two facing two in a circle around the room. Double Sicilian Circle is a >formation sometimes used in very large ceilidhs. In this, four face four >around the room. Your partner is next to you, and you all progress as a >foursome. Then what might you call three facing three??? (as in Walpole Cottage) Andy Peterson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:13:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:13:24 -0400 From: Albert Blank Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37151304.C0CF6AB-AT- sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Emma Rushton wrote (in part): variations thereof), and Sicilian Circle is the name of a formation - > Where or what is Circassia? It is a region of the Caucasus and, I think, the ancient name from which the word "Caucasus" derives. More specifically, it is the part of the Caucasus that lies north of the mountain range. In Russian, the people of the region are called, "Cherkes." Presumably, the Cherkes dance kolos (like everyone else in all the part of the the world around the eastern Mediterranean) but closed into a circle - I am guessing. Anyhow, the Brits are notorious for twisting foreign nomenclature into unrecognizable forms. -- Albert A. Blank e-mail: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:55:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:53:39 -0400 From: JHMTurner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: UK Guardian (online) article on radical ECD To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904141853_MC2-7201-B677-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Can anyone provide info on the eceilidh list please? Thanks John T ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:11:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:02:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 14 Apr 1999, Albert Blank wrote: > Anyhow, the Brits are notorious for twisting foreign nomenclature > into unrecognizable forms. And for doing the same for their own nomenclature, at least as far as pronunciation is concerned. See "Chalmondeley". Chummily, Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:27:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:28:09 +0100 From: Eldridge Keith Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: UK Guardian (online) article on radical ECD To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT John Turner wrote : > Can anyone provide info on the eceilidh list please? Yes. Subscribing instructions are at the end of the charter. ********************************************************************** * The 'eceilidh' list - charter * This is a discussion and news list concerned with "English Ceilidh Dancing" * What is "English Ceilidh Dancing"? It has its roots in "Country Dancing" often taught in schools in the UK. In adult life it divides into two strands: - "Dancers dances", "Experienced Dancers" where the dancing is complex in form and performed at a fast walk. Dances include American Squares, and Contras. Couple dances are a rarity. It may be observed in the Ham Marquee at the Sidmouth Festival, some indoor venues at Bromyard, etc. Bands such as The Falconers and Cats Whiskers feature. When someone makes a mistake, everybody frowns. This list does not cover this dancing form. - "English Ceilidh" where the dances are simpler in form, and the variety, vigour and importance of the stepping is greater. Dances include Nottingham Swing, The Willow Tree as well as couple dances. Some of the dances are not english in origin. It may be observed in such places as Haddenham, Corn Hall Cirencester and Towersey Festival. I'd say where to observe it at the Sidmouth Festival but they keep moving it. It used to be seen in the Drill Hall. Bands such as Woodpeckers, Peeping Tom, Old Swan Band feature. When someone makes a mistake, everybody laughs. THIS IS WHAT THE LIST IS ABOUT * Who can join? Membership of 'eceilidh' is open to anyone able to send and receive Internet e-mail. It does not cost anything over an above what you pay for Internet access. Q. What can I post to the list? What's "on topic"? - Chat about english ceilidh. The music, callers, dancers, floors, footwear, clothes, dances, steps, spots and events. - Morris, Song, Story Telling or Appalacian is NOT on topic unless it's debating the merits of interrupting a ceilidh for them. - News: "I've just discovered that Nether Wallop PTA have booked The Old Swan Band" for next week!". Great! We'll turn up and liven it up! Q. Can I advertise? A. No but you can *Announce*. Examples: - "Band A will being playing for a ceilidh at B on December 1st", Excellent - "Band A will being playing for a ceilidh at B on December 1st" (This is part of Festival C, Acceptable. - "Festival C blah blah blah ceilidh blah blah". No, go for the example above. - Morris side D is looking for more members. No, nothing to do with ceilidhs. - Morris side D is having a ceilidh to round of their day of dance. Fine. - Melodeon for sale. No. - Caller retiring has dance notes and radio mike for sale. Yes. An advert *persuades* and contains adjectives like "best", An announcement *informs*. However, don't go overboard and "inform" us how Folk Roots described the band. Leave respected dancing members of the list post comments about their experience. It's more useful. Q. Ok, I want to "inform" about a ceilidh. How often is it acceptable to repeat myself? A. Once. We suggest announcing 2 months and 2 weeks before the event. Q. Can't I advertise just a *little* bit? A. Ok. Your signature (IE, the bottom of your messages) can be up to 5 lines of anything you like. ---Example--- Steve Harris - Cheltenham Net Services, "The Internet is a Network of *People*" Internet Consultancy and Software. 01242 580293 http://www.netservs.com/ ---End Example--- * Making an Entrance: How Do I Join? Send e-mail to list-AT- netservs.com and in the body of the message (NOT the Subject) put: join eceilidh * How do I hear what's going on? Just read your e-mail as normal. You may find it convenient to filter mail to and from eceilidh-AT- netservs.com into its own folder if your e-mail program and brain can cope. * How do I respond to something I just read? Hit "reply" in your e-mail program, type away and then Send. Check the "To:" box on your screen. It should say eceilidh-AT- netservs.com which means everyone will see what you say. Change it to the e-mail address of an individual if that's more appropriate. * How do I say something? Start a new message to eceilidh-AT- netservs.com in your e-mail program, type away and then Send. * Final Polka: How Do I Leave? Send e-mail to list-AT- netservs.com and in the body of the message (NOT the Subject) put leave eceilidh * Fancy Footwork: Can I do other techie things? Yes. Send e-mail to list-AT- netservs.com and in the body of the message (NOT the Subject) put help for more detailed instructions. The eceilidh list is sponsored by: Net Services, "The Internet is a Network of *People*" Internet Consultancy and Software. 01242 580293 See: http://www.netservs.com/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:16:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:15:57 +0100 From: Thomas Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904150815.JAA27705-AT- sioux.hosts.netdirect.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 14/4/99 8:57 pm Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote >The Community Dance Manuals list a "The Circassian Circle and the Big >Circle" dance, which is actually, two, two, two dances in one. I've >never done it, but here's the notation: The Circassian Circle is a very common way to open or finish English ceilidhs, since it's very easy, very forgiving, and quite well-known. It corresponds to the 'Big Circle' dance in Community Dance Manual. I've done it a million times, but I have never, ever, done it as a combination with a Sicilian circle, as shown in CDM. I have always assumed that glueing the two dances together was one of CDM's little quirks. But I also suspect that in the 50's country dancing was much more fluid and people didn't worry so much about the precise moves to go with a particular dance title, so it wouldn't have seemed quirky then - is there anybody out there who was dancing in the 50's to comment? Thomas Thomas Green Preferred postal address: 27 Allerton Park | http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green/ Leeds LS7 4ND, UK | also at: fax +44 (0) 113 226 2751 | Computer-Based Learning Unit tel +44 (0) 113 226 6687 | University of Leeds ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:30:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:30:26 +0100 From: Thomas Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904150830.JAA28727-AT- sioux.hosts.netdirect.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 15/4/99 7:02 am Paul J. Stamler wrote >And for doing the same for their own nomenclature, at least as far as >pronunciation is concerned. See "Chalmondeley". Not to mention "Arkansas" ...... Thomas Thomas Green Preferred postal address: 27 Allerton Park | http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green/ Leeds LS7 4ND, UK | also at: fax +44 (0) 113 226 2751 | Computer-Based Learning Unit tel +44 (0) 113 226 6687 | University of Leeds ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:51:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:47:53 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Sicilian/Circassian To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904151051_MC2-7213-68E0-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi all - expanding on Al Blanks message: the spelling of Cherk.. is also Tcherkassia - and there is a step in international folk dance called - you guessed it - Tcherkassia. It's a grapevine step. I wholeheartedly agree with those folks praising the CDMs! Very useful, indeed! Many years ago I taught an ECD class at Temple U, and we had a genuine Brit show up. He said 'I thought you'd be doing TRADITIONAL ECD'. My answer 'I thought they ALL were..', merrily continuing with my Playford material. That's when I got the CDMs and have developed new favorites! Soooooooo, Sicilian Circle is a formation - and Circassian Circle a specific dance? Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:00:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:00:21 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990415150000.FGAZ9000-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 15 Apr 99 Thomas Green hath writ: > On 15/4/99 7:02 am Paul J. Stamler wrote > > >And for doing the same for their own nomenclature, at least as far as > >pronunciation is concerned. See "Chalmondeley". > > Not to mention "Arkansas" ...... > > Thomas > > > Thomas Green For what it's worth, people from Kansas pronounce the last two syllables of the name of the Arkansas River as though it were the name of their own state; that is, (for Brits & others who may not be familiar with American geographical pronunciation) the way that some one familiar with typical English pronunciation would think it was pronounced. Cheers, Art (whose grandparents were born in Sicily & who still hopes for a little enlightenment on the etymology of the circle) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:02:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:03:00 +0100 From: Thomas Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904151502.QAA26962-AT- sioux.hosts.netdirect.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On 15/4/99 3:47 pm Hanny D. Budnick wrote >That's when I got the CDMs and have developed new favorites! There are various other dances in the same vein to be found at http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green/BarnDances/index.html Thomas Thomas Green Preferred postal address: 27 Allerton Park | http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green/ Leeds LS7 4ND, UK | also at: fax +44 (0) 113 226 2751 | Computer-Based Learning Unit tel +44 (0) 113 226 6687 | University of Leeds ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:42:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:10:13 -0400 From: sol weber Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: What's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990415.113001.-134905.0.solweber-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In Alan's posting, I see that girls cross, ladies chain, and then women to center and back. Gender balancing will get even more difficult if these three feminine categories must be equally represented; or perhaps the racy Sicilian vibes and intense eye contact will cause the innocent damsels to transmogrify rapidly from one category to the next, zipping right through the girl/lady/woman spectrum, and in fact become *abandoned* women as the men eventually return to women not their partners. What would Jane Austen AND May Gadd have to say about these shenanigans? Sicilian Circle A1: Right and left through (or girls cross left, men cross right), repeat to places. A2: Partners balance and swing. B1: Ladies Chain B2: Swing and change OR promenade to next couple Part II: Big Circle A1: Forward and back twice A2: Women to center and back to place Men to center and back to woman originally on his left (not partner). B1: They swing B2: Promenade around, open to to big circle. -------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:58:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:58:39 +0700 From: Andy Peterson Subject: Re: What's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, sol weber Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37160caf.4489.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ..but notice that we are all men throughout. Real MEN dance! >In Alan's posting, I see that girls cross, ladies chain, and then women >to center and back. Gender balancing will get even more difficult if >these three feminine categories must be equally represented; or >perhaps the racy Sicilian vibes and intense eye contact will cause >the innocent damsels to transmogrify rapidly from one category >to the next, zipping right through the girl/lady/woman spectrum, and >in fact become *abandoned* women as the men eventually return >to women not their partners. What would Jane Austen AND May >Gadd have to say about these shenanigans? > > >Sicilian Circle > >A1: Right and left through (or girls cross left, men cross right), repeat > to places. > >A2: Partners balance and swing. > >B1: Ladies Chain > >B2: Swing and change OR promenade to next couple > >Part II: > >Big Circle > >A1: Forward and back twice > >A2: Women to center and back to place > Men to center and back to woman originally on his left (not >partner). > >B1: They swing > >B2: Promenade around, open to to big circle. > -------------------------------------------- > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:31:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:38:27 -0400 From: Country Dance and Song Society Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ray Labarbera's web site To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990415163827.006ad0c0-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Friends, Brad Foster talked to Ray about where he got his lists of dance groups, as well as his email mailing list. Ray did take information directly from our Directory, without our permission; he also took email addresses from our private Members' List and added them to his mailing list. He says he has ceased to use the bulk lists he got from us, although we are not sure how he can distinguish them from other bulk lists he lifted. In any event, we wanted you all to know that we did NOT give your names to him, and that we are appalled that the privacy of our members and member groups was invaded in that way. Robin Hayden Membership -------------------------------------------------------------- Country Dance and Song Society office-AT- cdss.org 132 Main St/PO Box 338 camp-AT- cdss.org Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 sales-AT- cdss.org 413-268-7426 news-AT- cdss.org fax: 413-268-7471 http://www.cdss.org/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:34:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:38:25 -0400 From: Country Dance and Song Society Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Still room at Buffalo Gap Dance Week! To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990415163825.006aec10-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Friends, We still have room for more campers at our Dance Week at Buffalo Gap. This year's Program Chair is the exhuberant Scott Higgs. He'll be teaching "English Country Dancing for Poets" and a daily couple dance "playshop." Other classes include "English for Experts" and "English Dance Sampler" from Helene Cornelius; morris and rapper sword with David Macemon; Mummers/Revelry with Alisa Dodson; and contras and squares with Kathy Anderson. Scott calls his lineup of musicians a "Musical Extravaganza": "Uncle Gizmo, Hold the Mustard, Bare Necessities, Future Geezers, A Band Named Bob, Raise the Roof, Footloose, Reckless Abandon, A Joyful Noise -- what do these nationally acclaimed bands have in common? All feature the playing of musicians who are with us this week!" If you already have our program brochure, fill out the registration form and send it (with your deposit)to CDSS, PO Box 338, Haydenville, MA, 01039; or FAX it to the office at 413-268-7471. If you don't have a program brochure (or even if you do) you can view our on-line version at www.cdss.org/programs/1999. The on-line brochure has a printoutable registration form that you can mail or FAX. For further questions email Steve Howe, camp registrar, at camp-AT- cdss.org. Steve Howe -------------------------------------------------------------- Country Dance and Song Society office-AT- cdss.org 132 Main St/PO Box 338 camp-AT- cdss.org Haydenville, MA 01039-0338 sales-AT- cdss.org 413-268-7426 news-AT- cdss.org fax: 413-268-7471 http://www.cdss.org/ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:03:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 19:46 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Sicilian/Circassian To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I understood that the Sicilian Circle came from a dance called the Sicilian. This I believe was a Victorian dance from the middle of the C19th. ----Original Message----- >From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> >To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com >Subject: Sicilian/Circassian >Reply-To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Date: 14 April 1999 19:24 > >Hi all - >question: do the terms 'Sicilian Circle' and 'Circassian Circle' just refer >to the formations or are there specific dances with those names? I've read >somewhere that 'Sicilian Circle' started out as 'Cecilian...' >in honor of St. Cecilia. Does anyone have details? > > _-AT- _ {)/' > /\ /\_._,<_/ >' \ /_\ > /> /< Hanny Budnick > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:17:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:18:53 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Arkansas [& way off topic] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904160506.BAA14634-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Not to mention "Arkansas" ...... One can hardly blame that one on the English, or the Americans. That's a French spelling of a word from a Siouan language. I think it means something like "south wind people." ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:12:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:11:10 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Circassian Circle (ECD Digest V1 #489) To: ECD Message-ID: <000201be87cf$cd717f20$3718883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_/qJ25jM/nou4SxBmrRgHhg)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_/qJ25jM/nou4SxBmrRgHhg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I found the comments posted about the two parts of Circassian Circle fascinating reading. I have no proof of what led to the dance being noted as Parts 1 and 2 in the Community Dance Manuals (although there was at least one "hidden agenda" behind their publication). When I danced as a child the big circle version (all facing COH) was invariably the last dance.It eventually gave way to the "Hokey Cokey" and/or "Knees Up Mother Brown". When I started "calling" dances I would usually finish with an easy dance involving everybody.In some places the feeling about how you should end an evening was so strong, that if you finished with anything other than Circassian Circle (Part 2), the "floor" would not clear - but would demand this dance before it decided the evening had finished! The only regular exception to this rule was those places who only danced "Playford" dances. However, the need to finish with a circle dance was so ingrained there that they insisted instead upon "Sellengers Round". So far as Scottish Country Dancing is concerned only "Part I" (as per the EFDSS CDMs) is known. The notation (with tunes) appears in the Scottish Country Dance Book 1 (issued by the RSCD). I can find no date of publication, but Paterson's copyright is MCMXXXIV. The note at the bottom of the description of Circassian Circle reads "This dance is the same as the first figure of Quadrille. Collected locally. Published in "The Ballroom, 1827" with a difference". Both set tunes are in 2/4 time and the suggested pipe tune is "Kate Dalrymple". When these books were published, they had been well researched and the descriptions were based on old manuscripts and "the experience of dancers during the last 150 years" (I just wonder which of the contributors had been living that long!) It is of course a powerful communal feeling to have everybody dancing in one big set at the end of a dance. This transformation can be achieved so easilly from the promenade (or pousette) at the end of a Sicillian circle or Square dance by the "Promenade into one big ring" . This probably explains why we used to end up with "Circassian Part 2" as the last dance. At this point couples sitting out would usually join in and as the dance got under way any single gents left over would go into the centre and step. The dance seems to have been choreographed deliberately to allow them to steal a partner for the swing and promenade - which is, of course, what used to happen (according to my Grandfather) until the Great War led to a surfeit of women (who danced together from the outset). HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_/qJ25jM/nou4SxBmrRgHhg) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I found the comments posted about the two parts of Circassian Circle fascinating reading.
I have no proof of what led to the dance being noted as Parts 1 and 2 in the Community Dance Manuals (although there was at least one "hidden agenda" behind their publication).
When I danced as a child the big circle version (all facing COH) was invariably the last dance.It eventually gave way to the "Hokey Cokey" and/or "Knees Up Mother Brown".
 
 When I started "calling" dances I would usually finish with an easy dance involving everybody.In some places the feeling about how you should end an evening was so strong, that if you finished with anything other than Circassian Circle (Part 2), the "floor" would not clear - but would demand this dance  before it decided the evening had finished! The only regular exception to this rule was those places who only danced "Playford" dances. However, the need to finish with a circle dance was so ingrained there that they insisted instead upon "Sellengers Round".
 
So far as Scottish Country Dancing is concerned only  "Part I" (as per the EFDSS CDMs) is known. The notation (with tunes) appears in the Scottish Country Dance Book 1 (issued by the RSCD). I can find no date of publication, but Paterson's copyright is MCMXXXIV. The note at the bottom of the description of Circassian Circle reads "This dance is the same as the first figure of Quadrille. Collected locally. Published in "The Ballroom, 1827" with a difference". Both set tunes are in 2/4 time and the suggested pipe tune is "Kate Dalrymple". When these books were published, they had been well researched and the descriptions were based on old manuscripts and "the experience of dancers during the last 150 years" (I just wonder which of the contributors had been living that long!)
 
 
It is of course a powerful communal feeling to have everybody dancing in one big set at the end of a dance. This transformation  can be achieved so easilly from the promenade (or pousette) at the end of a Sicillian circle  or Square dance by the "Promenade into one big ring" . This probably explains why we used to end up with "Circassian Part 2" as the last dance. At this point couples sitting out would usually join in and as the dance got under way any single gents left over would go into the centre and step. The dance seems to have been choreographed deliberately to allow them to steal a partner for the swing and promenade - which is, of course, what used to happen (according to my Grandfather) until the Great War led to a surfeit of women (who danced together from the outset).
      
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_/qJ25jM/nou4SxBmrRgHhg)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:48:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:48:08 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Paul Davis Subject: Aunt Nessie's White Horse To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Aunt Nessie's White Horse I remember dancing this a few years ago - rather a syncopated rhythym. I have now stumbled across a record with the music - does anyone out there have the notation please? From my recollection it is a circle dance with a wavy circle balance. All help gratefully received Paul ---------------------- Paul Davis Stonesfield FDC, Oxfordshire ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:48:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:31:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Overnight accommodations To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990416143151.22931.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul, we've got to stop meeting like this. I think the listserver is getting suspicious. Barbara ---Paul Rosenberg wrote: > > Hi Barbara, > > I think I may need overnight accomadations. > > My preference is to be staying somewhere on the way back toward Albany. I > am good for driving 30 to 60 minutes after a dance. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:52:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:48:16 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904161051_MC2-7247-C374-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Paul - 'Tant H(HHHH)essie un dat witte peerd' is a dance from South Africa. A circle mixer, danced this way: men on inside of circle facing out, women outside of circle facing their partners, the step used throughout (except for the buzz swing) is a slow strut (R step, bend R knee,/ L step, bend L knee etc.) A 1 - 4 partners facing, use 4 steps toward each other's right shoulder, 5 - 8 then return 4 repeat to left shoulder B 1 - 4 back to back (doSIdo) with partner 5 - 8 back to back (doSAdo) with partner, on last beat everyone claps their own hands A 1 - 8 loooong swing with your partner, at the end of which the men move on to the lady on their left (their partner's right). I use the dance frequently, but in 'easy international folk dancing'. It's the only dance from South Africa I know. Does anyone else know any others? Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:52:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:48:21 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Circassian Circle To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904161051_MC2-7247-C376-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Henry- I share your sentiments about doing all-inclusive circle dances! Usually I do a mixer as the first dance (I care not for these ladies - danced in a big circle for ECD, Berkshire Fool or Tant Hessie for IFD) IF there is a reasonable gender balance. I'm not the least bit fond of a closing couple waltz - it's usually outright painful for the ladies that are left out (partner no longer exists, doesn't dance, whatever). And even there: there are nice waltz mixers where the last time through can be done just by couples, except that you are 'stuck' with your last changed partner and not your old established favorite partner..... Sort of the total opposite of Western Line Dance, where everyone only vies for a good spot on the floor to do their introspective (self-centered?) solo stuff and looks into nobody's eyes.... Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:53:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 07:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Arkansas [& way off topic] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990416145148.4136.rocketmail-AT- web4.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >From: Rich Galloway >Subject: Re: Arkansas [& way off topic] How far off topic? Does that mean they don't do ECD in Arkansas? Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:11:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:10:21 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Paul Davis Subject: Re: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hanny, Thanks for that, and it may well be the correct version from SA, but I recall taking hands for what I would assume is A1-4 and executing a triple balance (forward, back, forward)... Anybody else have variations? Paul On Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:48:16 -0400 "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> wrote: > Hi Paul - > 'Tant H(HHHH)essie un dat witte peerd' is a dance from > South Africa. A circle mixer, danced this way: > men on inside of circle facing out, women outside of circle > facing their partners, the step used throughout (except for > the buzz swing) is a slow strut (R step, bend R knee,/ L > step, bend L knee etc.) A 1 - 4 partners facing, use 4 > steps toward each other's right shoulder, > 5 - 8 then return 4 repeat to left shoulder B 1 - 4 > back to back (doSIdo) with partner 5 - 8 back to back > (doSAdo) with partner, on last beat everyone claps > their own hands A 1 - 8 loooong swing with your partner, > at the end of which the men move on to the lady on > their left (their partner's right). > I use the dance frequently, but in 'easy international folk > dancing'. It's the only dance from South Africa I know. > Does anyone else know any others? > > Hanny ---------------------- Dr Paul Davis Computer Teaching Officer, OUCS, 13 Banbury Road, Oxford OX2 6NN 01865 283414 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 12:18:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:17:29 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904161517_MC2-7247-2893-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT No Hanny, I don't know any other South African dances BUT I have always been interested in the source of the music for Jan Peerewit! The tune is the same as Varsovienne, Varsovianna, Put-your-little foot. See if you can get hold of the old recordings of Marai and Mirranda. Very interesting!!! Marching to Pretoria is on the recordings and-have you danced Gary Roodman's-Marching to Pretorius? It is a wee dance that is just plain fun-set to a march from Pretorius' Terpsichory! Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:49:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 13:49:07 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Arkansas [& way off topic] To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JA3P5D1K4I9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara Ruth asked: How far off topic? Does that mean they don't do ECD in Arkansas? But they do! Arkansas's Neil Kelley brought her warm personality and great sense of fun to her calling at the BACDS Fall Weekend in 1997. I hear the next edition of the Country Dance Index may be coming out of Arkansas. So discussion of the pronunciation of Arkansas must, I guess, be on topic in the ECD list. Are there any English-style dances to Arkansas Traveler? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 15:16:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 18:14:46 -0400 From: JHMTurner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904161816_MC2-7257-BAD3-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul I know the dance as 'Aunt Hessie's White Horse' It was popular in South Hampshire (UK) in the 1970s. My version for Bars 17 - 20 is a pousette type hold (ladies hands on man's shoulder // Man's hands on ladies' waist) Pousette 4 steps towards centre of room and back. followed by Swing Ptnr (same hold) for the last 4 bars. Re start the dance with a new partner. Message text written by INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU >Thanks for that, and it may well be the correct version from SA, but I recall taking hands for what I would assume is A1-4 and executing a triple balance (forward, back, forward)... Anybody else have variations?< John T ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 16:33:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:30:52 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Aunt Hessie's White Horse To: ECD Message-ID: <001d01be8861$5deef820$df3b883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_PQ/gVkGbZH2dr329IhVQjA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_PQ/gVkGbZH2dr329IhVQjA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dr Paul Davis asked about this dance. Note the spelling "Hessie" not "Nessie". This is a South African change partner dance that enjoyed some popularity about 15 or so years ago, but not much danced these days. Formation Double circle facing partner (men back on inside back to COH). A1.Side Right and Left (danced as straight forward and back) A2.Do-sa-do then see-saw partner B. Swing Left Hand Lady with pas de basque step. (Some bands prefer ABB) HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_PQ/gVkGbZH2dr329IhVQjA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Dr Paul Davis asked about this dance. Note the spelling "Hessie" not "Nessie". This is a South African change  partner dance that enjoyed some popularity about 15 or so years ago, but not much danced these days. Formation Double circle facing partner (men back on inside back to COH).
 
A1.Side Right and Left (danced as straight forward and back)
A2.Do-sa-do then see-saw partner
B.  Swing Left Hand Lady with pas de basque step.
(Some bands prefer ABB)
 
  
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_PQ/gVkGbZH2dr329IhVQjA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:51:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:50:56 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Last Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37180520.4ce8.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Hanny, I do like the last waltz if there is someone I really want to do it with. I have to say that sometimes I take a partner a I don't expect to be a particularly good waltzer and am pleasantly surprised. I also can understand the pain of feeling left out. The Monday Scandinavian group here often does several circle mixers during the evening. It gives the beginners a chance to dance with experienced dancers when there are so many confusing steps they don't quite get yet in the couple dances. We do mix people around during teaching, but at the first chance they are back with the person they came with. English dancers really have it quite easy unless you are doing some of the Traditional stepping dances. I found the Finnish Polka easy because it's like a Rant step except that both feet land at the same time. (Instead of pot-a-toe chip you get pot--to chip.) Andy Peterson >Hi Henry- >I share your sentiments about doing all-inclusive circle dances! Usually I >do a mixer as the first dance (I care not for these ladies - danced in a >big circle for ECD, Berkshire Fool or Tant Hessie for IFD) IF there is a >reasonable gender balance. I'm not the least bit fond of a closing couple >waltz - it's usually outright painful for the ladies that are left out >(partner no longer exists, doesn't dance, whatever). And even there: there >are nice waltz mixers where the last time through can be done just by >couples, except that you are 'stuck' with your last changed partner and not >your old established favorite partner..... >Sort of the total opposite of Western Line Dance, where everyone only vies >for a good spot on the floor to do their introspective (self-centered?) >solo stuff and looks into nobody's eyes.... > >Hanny > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:57:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 20:57:40 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Overnight accommodations To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371806b4.4fab.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara, No suspicions at all. We onto you. Andy >Paul, we've got to stop meeting like this. > >I think the listserver is getting suspicious. > >Barbara > > >---Paul Rosenberg wrote: >> >> Hi Barbara, >> >> I think I may need overnight accomadations. >> >> My preference is to be staying somewhere on the way back toward >Albany. I >> am good for driving 30 to 60 minutes after a dance. > >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:07:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 00:08:47 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Bye-Bye Tant Hessie To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990417000847.007a08f0-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I learned Tant Hessie years ago as an international folkdancer found it charming, and taught it for many years as part of my Internation Folk Dance courses. I used it just prior to introducing contra dancing because the buzz step in this dance is quite slow, so it allows beginners to practice, and to practice with a different partner each round. But in the late 60s a group of my African-American students objected very strongly to dancing something from the Boer (white oppressor) heritage, and though I don't agree with boycotting dances from cultures just because we don't like their politics (this could easily leave us with nothing to dance at all!), I did agree that if we did only one dance per term from Africa, it should represent Africa's native heritage, and not the British and Dutch settlers. I found other dances to use to teach buzz step instead of Tant Hessie, (Hungarian Karikazos with downbeat rida steps are good) and started exploring traditional dances from Zimbabwe and Ghana to use in my International Folk Dance classes. That was long ago, and in a different political climate. Things are improving in South Africa today, so maybe African-Americans would no longer find it so offensive to have a Dutch dance taught to them as "African." It might be worth asking, though. Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 08:10:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 11:09:31 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: 74031.77-AT- compuserve.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hanny wrote: >'Tant H(HHHH)essie un dat witte peerd' is a dance from South >Africa. A circle mixer, danced this way: > ... >B 1 - 4 back to back (doSIdo) with partner > 5 - 8 back to back (doSAdo) with partner... > ... All right, I'll bite. What's the difference between a doSIdo and a doSAdo? Aren't they both just Americanized corruptions of the French words "dos a dos" ("back to back")? ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 13:03:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 15:59:36 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tant Nessie's White Horse To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904171603_MC2-726D-4221-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Dave - now don't forget that I'm a forigginer and didn't learn square dancing in 7th grade! I understand 'DoSIdo' to mean passing right shoulders on the first back-to-back (dancing back of course with left shoulders closer) and 'DoSAdo' the other way round. The swing in Tant Hessie was originally a 'Tikkidrie' (love that word!) where both dancers stand right shoulders adjacent and hands crossed behind their backs for the buzz swing. Mighty dangerous in crowded halls though, because the elbows stick out. _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:22:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New location for ECD in Boston To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990418002317.4110.rocketmail-AT- web116.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT It suddenly struck me that people who are coming early to NEFFA, expecting to join the Boston Centre for its regular Wednesday ECD, might not know that we no longer dance at the Cambridge YWCA. Our new location is the Park Avenue Congregational Church in Arlington Heights, located at the corner of Park Avenue Paul Revere Road, one block uphill from Massachusetts Avenue. Anyone who wants more specific information on how to get to our new location can e-mail me for driving directions or information about public transportation. Lyrl Ahern _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:18:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:33:57 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Aunt Hessie - Further Thoughts To: ECD Message-ID: <002801be8949$7d9fdfc0$af3f883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_GQdWiMz3srVyPOuQHUhDEA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_GQdWiMz3srVyPOuQHUhDEA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes, folks! I'm quite sure reaction against the South African regime of the day led to the decline in the popularity of the dance. If you are boycotting South African goods in the shops, it's a logical extension to stay firmly in your seat if a South African dance is announced. For some time now I've been doing "Balkan" rather than "Serbian" dances. Trying to divorce "dance" from "politics" is impossible, but you can be circumspect. I understand "Aunt Hessie's White Horse" started off as a Belgian dance that the the Dutch copied and then took to South Africa. If so, it would appear reasonable to introduce it as "a modern update of an old Belgian dance" and thus avoid Afro-American sensitivities. I suspect that there was another reason for the decline in popularity, however. The repetitious nature of the first part calls for skilled playing to prevent monotony. I found that musicians without such skills (or inclination?) would (at best) object to playing the tune or (at worst) actually refuse to play it. HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_GQdWiMz3srVyPOuQHUhDEA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Yes, folks! I'm quite sure reaction against the South African regime of the day led to the decline in the popularity of the dance. If you are boycotting South African goods in the shops, it's a logical extension to stay firmly in your seat if a South African dance is announced. For some time now I've been doing "Balkan" rather than "Serbian" dances. Trying to divorce "dance" from "politics" is impossible, but you can be circumspect. I understand "Aunt Hessie's White Horse" started off as a Belgian dance that the the Dutch copied and then took to South Africa. If so, it  would  appear reasonable to introduce it as "a modern update of an old Belgian dance" and thus avoid Afro-American sensitivities.
I suspect that there was another reason for the decline in popularity, however. The repetitious nature of the first part calls for skilled playing to prevent monotony. I found that musicians without such skills (or inclination?) would (at best) object to playing the tune or (at worst) actually refuse to play it.  
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_GQdWiMz3srVyPOuQHUhDEA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:21:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:33:57 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Aunt Hessie - Further Thoughts To: ECD Message-ID: <002901be8949$dc4e75e0$af3f883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_84bdzPtem4yCVkbdqhUmrA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_84bdzPtem4yCVkbdqhUmrA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Yes, folks! I'm quite sure reaction against the South African regime of the day led to the decline in the popularity of the dance. If you are boycotting South African goods in the shops, it's a logical extension to stay firmly in your seat if a South African dance is announced. For some time now I've been doing "Balkan" rather than "Serbian" dances. Trying to divorce "dance" from "politics" is impossible, but you can be circumspect. I understand "Aunt Hessie's White Horse" started off as a Belgian dance that the the Dutch copied and then took to South Africa. If so, it would appear reasonable to introduce it as "a modern update of an old Belgian dance" and thus avoid Afro-American sensitivities. I suspect that there was another reason for the decline in popularity, however. The repetitious nature of the first part calls for skilled playing to prevent monotony. I found that musicians without such skills (or inclination?) would (at best) object to playing the tune or (at worst) actually refuse to play it. HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_84bdzPtem4yCVkbdqhUmrA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Yes, folks! I'm quite sure reaction against the South African regime of the day led to the decline in the popularity of the dance. If you are boycotting South African goods in the shops, it's a logical extension to stay firmly in your seat if a South African dance is announced. For some time now I've been doing "Balkan" rather than "Serbian" dances. Trying to divorce "dance" from "politics" is impossible, but you can be circumspect. I understand "Aunt Hessie's White Horse" started off as a Belgian dance that the the Dutch copied and then took to South Africa. If so, it  would  appear reasonable to introduce it as "a modern update of an old Belgian dance" and thus avoid Afro-American sensitivities.
I suspect that there was another reason for the decline in popularity, however. The repetitious nature of the first part calls for skilled playing to prevent monotony. I found that musicians without such skills (or inclination?) would (at best) object to playing the tune or (at worst) actually refuse to play it.  
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_84bdzPtem4yCVkbdqhUmrA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:21:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 03:58:49 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Last Waltz To: ECD Message-ID: <002a01be8949$dde8ec00$af3f883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_skt3uPg9pYEI/C22Vk2FSA)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_skt3uPg9pYEI/C22Vk2FSA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT When the couple waltz became popular, the last waltz so far as I can tell was just that, ie the last waltz in the programme, not the final dance. The literature of the period where balls (in England) are described sufficiently would seem to indicate a standardisation upon ending the evening with a last waltz followed by the last set dance (almost invariably "Sir Roger de Coverley"). The last waltz was significant because it was the last real chance to do a "good bit of chatting up" - or to "arrange an assignation" (to stay in period!). To try and do this during the more riotous set dance which followed would be more difficult. Actually finishing with a waltz appears to be a relatively new phenomenon; developing I would suggest within the last fifty years and greatly assisted by the eponymous Tom Jones hit record. HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_skt3uPg9pYEI/C22Vk2FSA) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
When the couple waltz became popular, the last waltz so far as I can tell was just that, ie the last waltz in the programme, not the final dance. The literature of the period where balls (in England) are described sufficiently would seem to indicate a standardisation upon ending the evening with a last waltz followed by the last set dance (almost invariably "Sir Roger de Coverley").
 
The last waltz was significant because it was the last real chance to do a "good bit of chatting up" - or to "arrange an assignation" (to stay in period!). To try and do this during the more riotous set dance which followed would be more difficult.  Actually finishing with a waltz appears to be a relatively new phenomenon; developing I would suggest within the last fifty years and greatly assisted by the eponymous Tom Jones hit record.
 
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_skt3uPg9pYEI/C22Vk2FSA)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 23:37:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 01:55:14 -0400 From: sol weber Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: M and M To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990418.022205.-134593.1.solweber-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Re the following, from Ben to Hanny, and (unsuccessfully) avoiding any references to "Marching to Astoria", my memory was jogged by the reference to Marais and Miranda, whose recordings I listened to and enjoyed many years ago. I even have their very yellowed and fading songbook, somewhere. Their songs and singing were wonderful. One diverting piece had these words: Cool running water, bubble bubble trickle trickle. Cool running water, singing as it flows. (2X) Can't you hear the song that the water is singing? Can't you hear it say, "Take your cup, fill it up". (2X) I sang it to someone, and was told it was a dance tune. It's quite neat. Anyone who's interested, ask me about it. Sol Weber, Astoria NY, solweber-AT- juno.com No Hanny, I don't know any other South African dances BUT I have always been interested in the source of the music for Jan Peerewit! The tune is the same as Varsovienne, Varsovianna, Put-your-little foot. See if you can get hold of the old recordings of Marai and Mirranda. Very interesting!!! Marching to Pretoria is on the recordings and-have you danced Gary Roodman's-Marching to Pretorius? It is a wee dance that is just plain fun-set to a march from Pretorius' Terpsichory! Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com - ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 06:36:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 00:10:58 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: the last waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990418001058.007c3e10-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Henry Garfath suggests that the last waltz is a tradition that appeared within the last 50 years. Its gotta be close to 50 anyway-- I started international folk dancing twice a week in 1954, so thats 45 years of last-waltz tradition at least. One of the groups I attended back then ended every evening with a waltz, and another group I attended starting the following year ended every evening with a waltz mixer, so that one got to "say goodby" to everyone in the room. Victoria Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:43:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:39:29 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Aunt Hessie - Further Thoughts To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904181141_MC2-7264-B24E-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I ran an international folk dance yesterday with a bunch of senior citizens. Some of my favorite dances for such an occasion come from areas of the world which are 'troubled'. I don't politicize, but I always mention that ALL peoples have dance in their culture, and some of the most beautiful ones (easily accessible for learning, beautiful music, great sense of community) are those countries' GIFTS to the realm of recreational folk dancing. If we BOYCOTTED dances because of their ethnic/religious/whatever association - that's like the first step in xyz cleansing.... The similarity of dances with common (extended) borders is quite common! I once attended an international folk dance festival in Northern Germany where the Germans, Swedes, Dutch and Danish groups performed almost the same dance as 'theirs'. Klapptanz, Klap Dans... Pattycake Polka would have fit right in! _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 08:43:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 11:39:28 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New location for ECD in Boston To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904181141_MC2-7264-B24D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Lyrl - that was VERY thoughtful of you! Now I have to look at the map again.... Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 05:18:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:14:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #492 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Comrades, any possibility of encouraging people to send their messages in such a way that they appear only once, not two or 3 times per daily digest (and not in html format)? I refer to Mr G. I am no expert myself but perhaps he might be encouraged to investigate this. thanks Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 07:32:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:30:03 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Aunt Hessie - Further Thoughts To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904191030_MC2-7285-16FD-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks to Hanny for putting things so succincly. The contributions various ethnic groups have made to the cultural bank of the world have little or nothing to do with the political regimes of the moment. It would make as little sense to ban Serbian dances than to have Beethoven banned because Hitler was German or to eliminate Chinese art from the period of the Mongols because of Ghengis Khan. Let us hope that we have grown beyond that state. Thank you again-Hanny! Good lord-Greek and Turkish dances on the same program-my goodness! Ben Stein Burlington Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 08:41:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:36:27 -0500 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: South African Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <371B4D7B.19A1BC7D-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904161051_MC2-7247-C374-AT- compuserve.com> Hanny Budnick asks if anyone remembers doing other South African dances. I recall a Pata Pata craze several years back in international folk dance circles and that the version of Petronella danced in the Scottish group I danced with in the 70's was noted as the South African version. I've now danced Petronella in Scottish style, Scottich SA, Northumbrian (as a rant), New England, and ECD. Does anyone know other versions of Petronella? -- Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:25:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: South African Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Lawrence N. Stout wrote: > Hanny Budnick asks if anyone remembers doing other South African > dances. I recall a Pata Pata craze several years back in international > folk dance circles and that the version of Petronella danced in the > Scottish group I danced with in the 70's was noted as the South African > version. I've now danced Petronella in Scottish style, Scottich SA, > Northumbrian (as a rant), New England, and ECD. Does anyone know other > versions of Petronella? I occasionally call a version I picked up in the upper peninsula of Michigan, which begins improper. And someone is calling something called "Retro Petro", wherein only the active couple turns and balances -- is that the same as one of the others listed above? Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 12:14:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:07:45 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: South African Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990419.151027.-200549.3.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm not quoting chapter and verse, but I believe the original Petronella was a proper dance in which only the active couples balanced and turned. In modern times all four balance and turn and I think this version (as currently done) was called Citronella for a while before everyone accepted it and thought it WAS the standard version. Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:23:58 -0700 (PDT) "Paul J. Stamler" writes: >On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Lawrence N. Stout wrote: > >> Hanny Budnick asks if anyone remembers doing other South African >> dances. I recall a Pata Pata craze several years back in >international >> folk dance circles and that the version of Petronella danced in the >> Scottish group I danced with in the 70's was noted as the South >African >> version. I've now danced Petronella in Scottish style, Scottich >SA, >> Northumbrian (as a rant), New England, and ECD. Does anyone know >other >> versions of Petronella? > >I occasionally call a version I picked up in the upper peninsula of >Michigan, which begins improper. And someone is calling something >called >"Retro Petro", wherein only the active couple turns and balances -- is > >that the same as one of the others listed above? > >Peace. >Paul Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 15:15:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Subject: Re: Videotapes for dance learning To: Renaissance Dance Mailing List CC: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To all who are interested: I have just returned from an extended weekend holiday to discover 70 (yes, seventy) messages on email. What an astounding world! Thanks to the person who recommended my video tape. It is indeed a teaching video, and a number of steps are shown at different tempos and from different angles. For those interested in Charles Garth's video try Charles Garth's email: cgarth-AT- aol.com. With regard to the Matassins: there is a detailed Labanotation of the dance as I directed it for the production "Renaissance Revisited." The entire score for that production is available for rental through The Dance Notation Bureau. The music is given, with recommended metronome markings (MMs) and pointers on maintaining the tempo. Take note that it is not the entire dance--a few passages I felt were not so clear in the text were omitted. But it is the way I did it; the important point to me is that since this dance, if done by young gentlemen, was designed to show both their strength and their skill, I interpreted the basic steps as leapt--thus akin to a Morris. For further information on it I recommend my article (written with Beth Kurtz), "Matachins, Historic Overview," in the International Encyclopedia of Dance, vol 4, pp. 325-328; published by Oxford University Press, 1998. Most large research libraries in cities and at universities, have it by now. If you wish to see my version, the Dance Notation Bureau also has the film in its library, available for rental. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:06:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 21:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: JoAnne Rawls Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella versions (was South African Dances) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990420010533.48367.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Martha wrote: > >I'm not quoting chapter and verse, but I believe the original >Petronella was a proper dance in which only the active couples >balanced and turned. In modern times all four balance and turn >and I think this version (as currently done) was called Citronella >for a while before everyone accepted it and thought it >WAS the standard version. > >Martha > >Martha Davey >25-14 37 ST, >Astoria, NY 11103 >(718)278-4389 My husband and I danced Citronella at a contra dance last Saturday. It starts improper, with two sets of Petronella banances and twirls by both couples. I don't remember the whole dance, but at one point, the twos do a half-figure-eight up through the ones. As soon as they cross, the ones swing in the center. Then all circle right. It was great fun, and unusual to come across those figures while contra dancing. JoAnne Rawls Newport News, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:03:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 02:03:21 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: South African Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371c42d9.420f.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT When I first learned Petronalla about 30 years ago, it was taught as a proper dance with only the actives doing the turning. At some point (it may have been the first time Dudley Laufman was at Pinewoods) it was taught with the actives turning and then the twos were instructed that they could turn if they wanted. The "modern" version with everyone turning is more a result of "the everyone moves all the time" syndrome that pervades both newly choreographed English and Contra dances. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon >Martha Davey wrote: >I'm not quoting chapter and verse, but I believe the original >Petronella was a proper dance in which only the active couples >balanced and turned. In modern times all four balance and turn >and I think this version (as currently done) was called Citronella >for a while before everyone accepted it and thought it >WAS the standard version. > >Martha > >>On Mon, 19 Apr 1999, Lawrence N. Stout wrote: >> >>> Hanny Budnick asks if anyone remembers doing other South African >>> dances. I recall a Pata Pata craze several years back in >>international >>> folk dance circles and that the version of Petronella danced in the >>> Scottish group I danced with in the 70's was noted as the South >>African >>> version. I've now danced Petronella in Scottish style, Scottich >>SA, >>> Northumbrian (as a rant), New England, and ECD. Does anyone know >>other >>> versions of Petronella? >> >>I occasionally call a version I picked up in the upper peninsula of >>Michigan, which begins improper. And someone is calling something >>called >>"Retro Petro", wherein only the active couple turns and balances -- is >> >>that the same as one of the others listed above? >> >>Peace. >>Paul > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 04:31:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:18:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronalla To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904201118.HAA32038-AT- sca.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT First an advertisement. I'm expecting to carry a CD of British Playford'ish dance music in the near future. I don't know what sort of royalty the musicians want yet; but the music should be on my web page in Real Audio within a week: http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/ > When I first learned Petronalla about 30 years ago, it was taught as a > proper dance with only the actives doing the turning. At the Spring Thaw weekend in Toronto David Smukler pointed out that he had learned the dance as proper with only the actives turning and that his generation seemed intent on having both couples turn. The older dancers didn't like it. Now, he finds that people insist on clapping while turning, and he doesn't like it! So he had us not clap during the last few repeats. The challenge that I get from it is having the first clap on time. Much like songs by an ensemble at a play; very few people come on strong with the first note. He did point out that footwork was all the rage when only the actives turned and that seems to have falled by the wayside. But I've definately heard more foot patters in Ann Arbor than I have in Canada. In a way the clapping replaced the elaborate foot work. Is this a "dumbing down" of dance? Certainly at Irish Set (not Ceili) dances there are people who have wonderfull stepping/clogging/patters; but I've never seen it taught. - Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 07:14:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 10:14:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: which list is this? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT OK, the name says "ECD" = English Country Dance. Recent conversations are largely about Petronella variations (I really don't know: English?) and "international" dance. Are there separate Contra lists and "international" (there's a useless euphemism) lists? I'm not, of course, the list owner. I'm just curious. Is this becoming the "any kind of dance we like to talk about" list? Maybe it should be renamed. Inquiring minds want to know. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:37:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:36:10 -0500 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronalla & which list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <371CACFA.7BFE26AE-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904201118.HAA32038-AT- sca.uwaterloo.ca> Having (sort of) started the Petronella thread I'll try to connect it to questions in ECD and some history of ECD in the US: I remember a variant done in the early 70's in longways lines proper, starting with the petronella figure done in rant step 2 turning, 2 in place, inactive couple starting in on the second set of turns. By the end of the A music everyone is (approximately) back in place. For B the active couple goes down the middle and back and then couples change places while turning using either a rant or a step hop, I don't remember which. This has a lot of the character I associate with English ceilidh dances. Is there a version currently being done in that scene? Another question is to what extent is English ceilidh dancing (barn dancing, Community Dance Manual dances) relevant to this list. Let me give some family history related to this: My grandparents did ECD (probably all Playford) is a friend's living room in Harrisburg in the 30's and 40's. It was a small group dancing in a fairly small place (though living rooms in some of those houses are not all that small). They almost certainly used recorded music and would have to dance fairly smoothly to avoid having the needle jump. My uncle danced with them as a teenager. He was the one who introduced me and a group of my friends to ECD in the mid 60's in a basement multipurpose room at Harvard. We did Playford to records. When I was in college in the late 60's I danced with the U of Chicago country dancers, a group which did Playford, RSCDS style Scottish CD, and Danish dances (reflecting the influence of the Berea Christmas Dance School). No ceilidh type dances were done there. In graduate school in the 70's I danced with the Illini Folk Dance Society-- a group that did Scottish on Mondays and a mix of international dance on Tuesdays and Thursdays. ECD appeared occasionally in the TTh dances, mostly Hole in the Wall, Trip to Paris, Black Nag, and Nottingham Swing. In 1979 George Lowery (a professor of recreation at U of I) started a class which included traditional contras, English ceilidh, and CDM style dances. That class eventually turned into the contra dance group which continues in Urbana. It now does almost exclusively recently composed contra dances. In the late 80's my wife and I returned to family roots (and bought a house with a big enough living room) and started doing ECD in our home. We did mostly Playford. One of our favorites was Scotch Cap, which came to be known locally as the "into the kitchen" dance because that's where the men's line ended up in the the third chorus. These dances in our living room provided the start of the Central Illinois ECD group. In a living room with a small number of people you can do 2 couple and 3 couple dances, but not many of the longways for as many as will nor many of the circle dances. This setting favors the earlier Playford dances. When the group grew too large for our living room and moved to a dance studio at the Springer Center in Champaign we had more space, attracted more dancers who were accustomed to Scottish and contra dancing (and some who had done Renaissance dance with SCA), and started doing more longways dances and more dances from the Community Dance Manuals. We hold two balls a year, so elegance in dancing is one of the aims of the group. We do essentially nothing that involves stepping. We also do all of our dancing to live music. Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room" experience in their backgrounds? To what extent do the constraints of space affect our choices of what dances to do? What kinds of dancing overlap with ECD elsewhere? Are the English ceilidh, contra, international, and ECD communities overlapping in most places? Here at least ECD draws dancers who regularly do international folk dance or contra (but very few do both). There is no ceilidh dancing within 150 miles (perhaps 1500, or 3000 if the closest group is in England!). -- Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:50:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 11:49:43 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Petronalla To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371ccc47.ffd.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Eric Praetzel wrot: > At the Spring Thaw weekend in Toronto David Smukler pointed out that > he had learned the dance as proper with only the actives turning and > that his generation seemed intent on having both couples turn. > The older dancers didn't like it. > > Now, he finds that people insist on clapping while turning, > and he doesn't like it! > > > So he had us not clap during the last few repeats. The challenge that > I get from it is having the first clap on time. Much like songs by an > ensemble at a play; very few people come on strong with the first note. > I don't know where that got clapping started, but I don't like it either, and it has made its way into every dance that has a "Petronella turn". People who haven't learned any differently think that the clap is part of the "Petronella turn". In one such dance recently I found that people who were taking the time to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next figure. I think the dance had two turns in a circle with your "trail buddy" with the second having an extra partial rotation to face your partner and swing. As the dance progressed fewer and fewer people were clapping as they realized they needed their hands for something else. As you point out, most people don't clap on the beat and it is muddled. I once read that the challenge for a music director is that it is very difficult to get a large group to sing together. Everyone hears the music slightly differently. That is also the challenge for a dance director. The larger the group, the more individual styles there are. Then of course there is the fact that Contra dance in particular has evolved to the point where the individuals style seems more important to some than the whole group working together. > He did point out that footwork was all the rage when only the actives > turned and that seems to have falled by the wayside. But I've definately > heard more foot patters in Ann Arbor than I have in Canada. > In a way the clapping replaced the elaborate foot work. > Is this a "dumbing down" of dance? > I do a little clog step while turning and balancing in the "Petronella turn". It is NOT a hard stomp, which is what the old foot patters have evolved into. I was talking to someone recently and our conversation moved to a discusson of the revival of swing dancing here in Portland. They commented that the young people have really taken to it but they won't take the time to learn how to do it "right". They try to do the fancy moves with wild abandon but without knowledge of the mechanics involved. I saw several older couples doing swing a few years ago at a festival. They weren't doing all the fancy stuff, but they were soooo smooothe. They looked like they had been doing it together since the thirties and really had it down. Andy Peterson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:09:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 15:07:39 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Week at Pinewoods To: ECD_LIST Message-ID: <199904201507_MC2-72B5-565E-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear friends, Steve Howe at the CDSS office has just sent me the unexpected news that English Week '99 has only 9 places left! As you may know, we landed the "graveyard shift" this year (last week of the season, adjacent to Labor Day and conflicting with every college and many high school openings), so the expectation was that the Week would be far from full. This will not be the case; CDSS is preparing for an ED wait list. I would hate to see any of the serious ECD-ers on this list denied a place because he/she too thought that the Week would not fill early. So... consider this an "inside tip;" if you've been thinking of joining our merry throng, do it now. [This is not an official pronunciamento of CDSS] Gene Murrow English Week Program Chair and general troublemaker... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:16:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 14:15:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronalla & which list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904201915.OAA19053-AT- staff2.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lawrence N. Stout writes: > > Having (sort of) started the Petronella thread I'll try to connect it to > questions in ECD and some history of ECD in the US: < history of Larry's dance experience and development of the Central Illinois English Country Dancers snipped> Another reason that this thread might be appropriate on this list is that Petronella seems to be one of the older contra dances that have been around for a while and might be considered to be an early American dance. Our group (CIECD) tries to include some early American dances (Young Widow, Money In Both Pockets, Hulls Victory, etc.) in our programs. This seems reasonable since the American dances of the 18th century are closely tied to the English dances of that time. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:53:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 12:52:23 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Petronalla & which list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371cdaf7.46d6.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Lawrence N. Stout writes: >> >> Having (sort of) started the Petronella thread I'll try to connect it to >> questions in ECD and some history of ECD in the US: > >> history of Larry's dance experience and development of the Central Illinois > >English Country Dancers snipped> >Jonathan Sivier wrote: > Another reason that this thread might be appropriate on this list is that >Petronella seems to be one of the older contra dances that have been around >for a while and might be considered to be an early American dance. I used to dance with Reel Nutmeg in Connecticut. We also did Early American dances. We had a suite which we did for NEFFA one year which started with twice through a Scottish version of Petronella, followed by twice through an Early American version, then a "modern" Contra version (without the d*%n claps). It showed some of the evolution of that particular dance. The fact is that country dancing, as collected by Playford and others, was a court dance related to dances done in many countries in Europe. I have heard comments that Danish dances were particularly influenced by ECD and I can certainly see the similarities in dances which Nordlys does. (Nordlys is the Scandinavian group I perform with here in Portland.) We do not live in isolation and ECD did not evolve into what it has become in isolation from other dance forms. I see absolute relevance to this list in discussions of how a particular dance has evolved in the international community and what other dances are similar. Every e-mail list I have joined has things kicked around in it that have no real connection to the topic of common interest. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 13:15:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 16:09:32 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD Digest V1 #493 To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904201613_MC2-72AF-9E21-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ahhhhhhhh, give me that oldtime religion, errrrrr, Petronella again. Proper, only the actives doing the 'diamonds', and the active man stepping with as many different steps as he knows while he does the 'down the set' with his lady. According to Ralph Page, some of the men danced right out of the door to take a swig. I don't know whether/where they rejoined the set...... _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:22:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 22:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990421052331.26344.rocketmail-AT- web118.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > > Eric Praetzel wrote: > > At the Spring Thaw weekend in Toronto David > > Smukler pointed out that he had learned > > [Petronella] as proper with only the actives > > turning and that his generation seemed intent on > > having both couples turn. The older dancers didn't > > like it. > > Now, he finds that people insist on clapping > > while turning, and HE doesn't like it! Andy Peterson (also known as my brother) added: > I don't know where clapping got started, but > I don't like it either....As you point out, most > people don't clap on the beat and it is muddled. When people clap while dancing, I am always reminded of Phil Merrill playing the piano at Hudson Guild Farm weekends over 25 years ago. While the heads sashayed across the square in Cumberland Square Eight, the sides would begin to clap--and Phil would simply stop playing. Lyrl Ahern _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 23:31:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:17:03 +0100 From: Henry Garfath Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Repetitive Regret To: ECD Message-ID: <000901be8bc0$47be7b40$323f883e-AT- henrygar> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_pcq8xUyUT1aUYwZJisyjow)" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_pcq8xUyUT1aUYwZJisyjow) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I am sorry, but I have no idea why my messages are now apppearing 4 times over (at the latest count). So far as I am aware I am not doing anything differently from when I first began - and when I blind copy the message to another mailbox it only appears the once. If someone out there has a solution perhaps they could e-mail me directly telling me how to fix the problem - it's bad enough being misunderstood once only! Thanks in anticipation. HENRY L GARFATH Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113 Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com ======================================================== Why not visit our website? http://www.zyworld.com/abdc ======================================================== --Boundary_(ID_pcq8xUyUT1aUYwZJisyjow) Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
I am sorry, but I have no idea why my messages are now apppearing 4 times over (at the latest count). So far as I am aware I am not doing anything differently from when I first began - and when I blind copy the message to another mailbox it only appears the once. If someone out there has a solution perhaps they could e-mail me directly telling me how to fix the problem - it's bad enough being misunderstood once only! Thanks in anticipation.
 
HENRY L GARFATH
 
Phone/Fax: +44 1962 885628 Pager: 07666 740113
Preferred e-mail address: abdc-AT- zyworld.com
========================================================
Why not visit our website?   http://www.zyworld.com/abdc
========================================================
--Boundary_(ID_pcq8xUyUT1aUYwZJisyjow)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 04:47:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:47:30 -0400 From: Joyce Crouch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904210747_MC2-72D3-B244-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Lyrl Ahern wrote: >>>When people clap while dancing, I am always reminded of Phil Merrill playing the piano at Hudson Guild Farm weekends over 25 years ago. While the heads sashayed across the square in Cumberland Square Eight, the sides would begin to clap--and Phil would simply stop playing.<<< Then, what would happen, Lyrl? would he come back in on the B part? did the clapping and the dance continue? tell us more! Joyce Crouch Amherst MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:24:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:24:11 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904210824_MC2-72DA-6C84-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To repeat Hanniy's opening remark Aaaaaah! Not only Petronella again but also clapping again. Thought we went through both subjects months ago-but perhaps it was on Strathspey rather than this list. Anyhow-The first group that I danced with (not counting dancing square dances out in the country in northern New York State) was Margo Mayo's American Square Dance Group, and that was back in 1940 (that really dates me doesn't it?). Margo would, like Phil Merrill, stop playing if dancers started clapping. Her comment was that only children needed to clap to keep a rythm going-adults should listen to the music. 'Nough said! Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:43:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 05:26:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dept. of Redundancy Department To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990421122642.24679.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Benjamin Stein wrote: > > To repeat Hanniy's opening remark Aaaaaah! Not only Petronella again but > also clapping again. Thought we went through both subjects months ago-but > perhaps it was on Strathspey rather than this list. No Ben, you're not losing your memory. We did indeed go through the entire clapping-during-Petronella discussion on this list several months ago. You just hadn't realized that we are already into summer rerun season. Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 08:04:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:51:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: fillis timus maximus To: adpete-AT- jps.net CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904211451.KAA21313-AT- sca.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Plug, plug. I've put Real Audio clips from the Mock Hobby Horse (English band) on my web site. http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/Mock-Hobby-Horse I'm starting to think that the bane of callers are the slightly bored, good, dancers! They need something to fill the time and that is how things like clapping get added. In Michigan I've seen a certain figure (that I now forget) but its sole purpose seemed to be: 1) fill time 2) mark a transition in dance figures Instead of just moving simply this figure involved turning over one shoulder and adding a single clap; yea Petronella-esque. So here is a case of adding a Petronella'ish turn to a dance. It does fit in quite nicely though. I'm often guilty of doing something to keep on moving. There even is one dance and when it is taught by some english groups the end couples do a looping figure (Strip the Willow'ish dance with the ends coming in and turning by one hand, the other hand, both hands / swinging). While one couple is doing this (say head man, bottom woman) the other couple does a looking figure to keep in motion and they should be passing right thru their home spots and coming into the center of the set; if they've timed it right. At EC dances they tend to teach the extra loops; while at Irish Ceili's they don't do those. In the SCA they often don't teach the loops either. I've never looked up to see if the dances were writen down that way or if it was an addition for people with extra space at the ends of the set. It certainly makes for a better performance. > to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next figure Yes, that is often what happens as beginners try to learn an addition to a dance. There was even one dance at the Dawn Dance (Ann Arbor) where I ran into that same problem myself. > second having an extra partial rotation to face your partner and swing. Of course you have to tailor your dancing to the dancers around you. I know many women who will come at it perfectly balanced and it is possible to start a swing without much contact while other woman more or less expect me to take their full body weight and they go so far as to lean wayyyyyy back while swinging. They took the "giving weight" lesson a bit too much! Generally though; I'm not partial to clapping or noise during dances. I come for the dancing _and_ the music; not people thumping and clapping. So if I think you're good, go ahead :) :) > It is NOT a hard stomp, which is what the old foot patters have evolved into Yea; some of my balances are that way. But age is having an effect and I can't doing 3+ hours of dancing if I'm hitting the floor like that. > I was talking to someone recently and our conversation moved to a discusson > of the revival of swing dancing here in Portland. They commented that young > people have really taken to it but they won't take the time to learn how to > do it "right". They try to do the fancy moves with wild abandon but without Hmmm. I'll probably check out the swing dancing on campus. It was wild when I last showed up. The place was packed with about 3x as many people as the hall could handle and the music was loud and often lacked a clear beat. The posters/advertisements are always filled with ariels and I don't ever want to see people doing those without a good understanding of the physics. - Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:25:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:17:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ceilidh To: English Dance Maillist Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi folks: I have a question for those on the list who do ceilidh dancing along with Playford: What are a dozen or so good dances to try out in a group that has only done Playford in the past? Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 09:29:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:28:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: effects of clapping in Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Eric Praetzel [and a previous, now anonymous author] wrote: [ snip ] > > to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next figure > > Yes, that is often what happens as beginners try to learn an addition to > a dance. There was even one dance at the Dawn Dance (Ann Arbor) where I > ran into that same problem myself. There is a more subtle problem. Prior to a balance, the four in the minor set used to take hands four in a ring; there was strong physical bonding as well as visual, and the balance, which came two beats later, was in this context, and it was a very powerful effect. Sort of like coming together and having a moment shared in intense bonding, then sealed with the balance while still sharing the firm grip in either side with neighbor and partner, and the diagonal eye contact with the remaining member of the set. Since this clapping is started at the moment that one otherwise would have taken hands, and it is very hard to take hands with someone else and clap at the same time, if one claps it destroys the possibility of this magic moment. It is very much a "do your own thing" versus "doing a group thing." Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:55:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:54:40 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: fillis timus maximus To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371e10e0.30bd.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Eric Praetzel wrote: > I'm starting to think that the bane of callers are the slightly bored, good, >dancers! Worse yet, from a dancers point of view, are the one who THINK they are good dancers. One of my friends and I have had lengthy discussions about the three kinds of dancers. There are the beginners, who are forgiven their transgressions because they are new and don't know any better. There are the truly good dancers who work at learning the phrasing, styling and movement. Then there are the type three dancers who, no matter how many years they stick with it, never get a clue because they think they know it all and no longer pay attention to instructions. There are people in this catagory that I've known for thirty years. My friend gets very frustrated dancing with one man after another who is in this catagory. >I'm often guilty of doing something to keep on moving. There's nothing wrong with keeping moving to mark time (i.e. keep the flow going) or with doing an extra turn out to move smoothly into a figure (such as some of us do leading into the hey's in Hambleton's Round-O). >It certainly makes for a better performance. >> to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next figure I frequently fault callers for the way they teach "dances" rather than "dancing". There is little understanding among most dancers that the flow from one figure to another is a smooth transition. Even long after they can no longer be considered beginners, there are many people who have to return to a place and pause before they can start the next figure. They are not taught to think ahead or to cut a move short and move on if they get behind. Those of us who learned from May Gadd and Genny Shimer learned that it isn't just getting from Point A to Point B, but HOW you get there. We were taught how the dance fits the phrasing of the music. Many dancers never are taught the relationship between the dance and the music. Callers seem to be afraid they will insult some experienced dancer by teaching. I am annoyed that they don't teach enough and the lack of teaching detracts from the quality of the dancing. > I know many women who will come at it perfectly balanced... while other woman more or less > expect me to take their full body weight and they go so far as to lean > wayyyyyy back while swinging. They took the "giving weight" lesson a bit > too much! When I started Contra dancing regularly in Hartford years ago there were several women who leaned back as you describe. I began having a problem with one knee and realized it was from being pulled off center while swinging. I made a concious effort to pull these women upright and keep myself centered. When they suddenly realized that they were having more fun swinging that way they changed the way they held themselves. >> It is NOT a hard stomp, which is what the old foot patters have evolved into > > Yea; some of my balances are that way. But age is having an effect and I > can't doing 3+ hours of dancing if I'm hitting the floor like that. One of the things I learned years ago from Morris dancing, and to a somewhat lesser degree from ECD, is that there are places in the dance where you need a burst of energy and other places where you can let down and relax. I think George Fogg may have been the one who pointed that out to me in Morris. > >> I was talking to someone recently and our conversation moved to a discusson >> of the revival of swing dancing here in Portland. They commented that young >> people have really taken to it but they won't take the time to learn how to >> do it "right". They try to do the fancy moves with wild abandon but without Part of what has sparked the Swing revival in Portland is that the Crystal Ballroom was renovated and brought up to earthquake codes by the McMenamins who own numerous brew pubs in and around Portland. The Crystal re-opened 3 years ago after being closed for 30 years. My mothers parents danced there in the thirties when it was known as Cottilion Hall. There is swing dancing there every Sunday and sometimes another night. One very memorable dancer that I saw there one night was swing dancing in his wheelchair. He only danced with one partner that he had worked on a style with, but they were having a great time. Which starts a whole new discussion on handicapped dancers on the dance floor. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:15:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:15:10 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: fillis timus maximus To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, adpete-AT- jps.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371e15ae.41d7.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Apologies all, for not signing this the first time. > >Eric Praetzel wrote: >> I'm starting to think that the bane of callers are the slightly bored, good, > >>dancers! >Worse yet, from a dancers point of view, are the one who THINK they are good >dancers. One of my friends and I have had lengthy discussions about the three >kinds of dancers. There are the beginners, who are forgiven their transgressions >because they are new and don't know any better. There are the truly good dancers >who work at learning the phrasing, styling and movement. Then there are the >type three dancers who, no matter how many years they stick with it, never get >a clue because they think they know it all and no longer pay attention to instructions. >There are people in this catagory that I've known for thirty years. My friend >gets very frustrated dancing with one man after another who is in this catagory. > > >>I'm often guilty of doing something to keep on moving. >There's nothing wrong with keeping moving to mark time (i.e. keep the flow going) >or with doing an extra turn out to move smoothly into a figure (such as some >of us do leading into the hey's in Hambleton's Round-O). >>It certainly makes for a better performance. > >>> to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next figure > > I frequently fault callers for the way they teach "dances" rather than "dancing". >There is little understanding among most dancers that the flow from one figure >to another is a smooth transition. Even long after they can no longer be considered >beginners, there are many people who have to return to a place and pause before >they can start the next figure. They are not taught to think ahead or to cut >a move short and move on if they get behind. Those of us who learned from May >Gadd and Genny Shimer learned that it isn't just getting from Point A to Point >B, but HOW you get there. We were taught how the dance fits the phrasing of >the music. Many dancers never are taught the relationship between the dance >and the music. Callers seem to be afraid they will insult some experienced dancer >by teaching. I am annoyed that they don't teach enough and the lack of teaching >detracts from the quality of the dancing. > >> I know many women who will come at it perfectly balanced... while other woman >more or less >> expect me to take their full body weight and they go so far as to lean >> wayyyyyy back while swinging. They took the "giving weight" lesson a bit > >> too much! > When I started Contra dancing regularly in Hartford years ago there were >several women who leaned back as you describe. I began having a problem with >one knee and realized it was from being pulled off center while swinging. I >made a concious effort to pull these women upright and keep myself centered. >When they suddenly realized that they were having more fun swinging that way >they changed the way they held themselves. > >>> It is NOT a hard stomp, which is what the old foot patters have evolved into > >> >> Yea; some of my balances are that way. But age is having an effect and I > >> can't doing 3+ hours of dancing if I'm hitting the floor like that. > One of the things I learned years ago from Morris dancing, and to a somewhat >lesser degree from ECD, is that there are places in the dance where you need >a burst of energy and other places where you can let down and relax. I think >George Fogg may have been the one who pointed that out to me in Morris. >> >>> I was talking to someone recently and our conversation moved to a discusson > >>> of the revival of swing dancing here in Portland. They commented that young > >>> people have really taken to it but they won't take the time to learn how >to >>> do it "right". They try to do the fancy moves with wild abandon but without > >Part of what has sparked the Swing revival in Portland is that the Crystal Ballroom > was renovated and brought >up to earthquake codes by the McMenamins who own numerous brew pubs in and >around Portland. The Crystal re-opened 3 years ago after being closed for 30 >years. My mothers parents danced there in the thirties when it was known as >Cottilion Hall. There is swing dancing there every Sunday and sometimes another >night. > One very memorable dancer that I saw there one night was swing dancing in >his wheelchair. He only danced with one partner that he had worked on a style >with, but they were having a great time. Which starts a whole new discussion >on handicapped dancers on the dance floor. > > Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:47:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:47:05 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: The list owner speaks; all carry on just as before To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JAAMWF3Q889EIMWE-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- I'm posting from an internet cafe 3000 miles away from my computer. The annoying Microsoft telnet client doesn't do a good enough VT100 emulation for the editor to work; please forgive typos. (1) Most of the conversation so far about other dance forms has been in the context of ECD; I think we got to the South African dances through somebody asking about what turned out to be 'The Man in the Hay.' I'm willing to accept that as ECD-related. I don't particularly want to see people posting here asking for random IFD dance instructions, but I have no problem with someone saying 'Curiously, this figure is just like one from IFD.' (2) I'm willing to count Petronella as an Early American dance, and I explicitly put Early American dance in the list description when I started the list. Not only that, I'm perfectly happy to have have historic (that is, pre-RSCDS) Scottish dances discussed here. (It would be kind of dopey to say, for example, that we can't talk about dances from 'Neal' because it was published in Dublin.) Further yet, I'm happy to have informed discussions of pre-revival country dancing of any European nation or colony thereof; these are all to some extent expressions of common influence and may be interesting. (3) I'd be happy to have ceilidh dance discussions on this list, but the ceilidh dancers seem to be happily congregating on the eceilidh list, for which signup instructions were recently posted. From the depths of ignorance, let me say to whoever it was who asked for recommendations of ceilidh dances for his ECD group, that he can find many useful dances of this type in the COmmunity Dance Manuals, but that unless he has ceilidh musicians, they'll be barn dances, not ceilidh dances. (4) I may well be out of touch until next Monday. Try to behave yourselves. -- ALan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 08:19:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:16:25 -0400 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904221119_MC2-72DE-BF47-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> In one such dance recently I found that people who were taking the time >> to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next >> figure. I've written a contra called "No Clapping" which I deliberately made complicated enough that people wouldn't be able to clap - and I told them so when I called it at the Scout House in Concord! People didn't clap, but some felt it was an infringement of their personal liberty. Of course I wouldn't dream of publishing a contra dance on the ECD list! Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:15:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 11:15:28 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371f6740.5e8a.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am sure that the chemical substance issue has probably been brought up here before. My problem is somewhat different than what Vicki Bestock has. Although I have varying respiratory distress from fragrances, my main problem is a skin contact allergy. I have been sensitized over the years by exposure to chemicals in the workplace. About 3-1/2 years ago I had an acute rash oon my neck, shoulders and arms. When the dermatologist walked into the room, the first thing he said was "Stop using fragrances." Subsequent testing found several chemical substances to which I have allergies and I now read labels for all household products very carfully. Just in the last three weeks I have had a sudden reaction to something and even products I had been using with no problem seem to be adding to the irritation. A friend thinks that some things I have used may have preservatives in them. I am slowly fightingmy way back to my norm. I know that CDSS had a run of articles, initiated by Vicki, and that there are those among us who think we are just over-reacting. This is not a preference issue. For some of us it is a very serious health concern. The ECD communities in Seattle and Portland have been particularly sensitive to the needs of those who have these health problems and I must thank them for it. In the wake of what I have just been going through this week, my sister in Maryland sent this bulletin to me that she had gotten in her e-mail. Although its getting so you don't know if anything is safe any more, I felt that I should pass this on. Any time we are able, dangerous chemicals should be eliminated from our personal environment. It is an issue for all of us, not just those who have serious problems. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon HEALTH AND SAFETY TIP Some useful information on the hair shampoos, which we use: Check the ingredients listed on your shampoo bottle, and see if they have a substance by the name of Sodium Laureth Sulfate, or simply SLS. This substance is found in most shampoos, and the manufactures use it because it produces a lot of foam and it is cheap. BUT, the fact is that SLS is used to scrub garage floors, and it is very strong. It is also proven that it can cause cancer in the long run, and this is no joke. I went home and checked my shampoo (Vidal Sasoon). It doesn't contain it; however, others such as Vo5, Palmolive, Paul Mitchell, the new Hemp shampoo, etc. all contain this substance. So I called one company, and I told them their product contains a substance that will cause people to have cancer. They said "Yes, we knew about it but there is nothing we can do about it, because we need that substance to produce foam. By the way Colgate toothpaste also contains the same substance to produce the "bubbles". They said they are going to send me some information. Research has shown that in the 1980s, the chance of getting cancer is 1 out of 8000 and now, in the 1990s, the chances of getting cancer is 1 out of 3, which is very serious. So I hope that you will take this seriously and pass this on to all the people you know. Hopefully, we can stop "giving" ourselves the cancer virus. This is serious, after you have read this, pass it on to as many people as possible, this is not a chain letter, but it concerns our health. Michelle Hailey, Executive Secretary, University of Pennsylvania Health System, Office of Legal Affairs (215) 662-2546 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:05:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 15:13:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Christine Robb Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SLS chain letter To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Before too many people pass that along, have a look at : http://www.snopes.com/toxins/shampoo.htm and you'll see that it is a chain letter, with false (or confused) claims, dating from 1998. Christine ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:57:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 12:56:48 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: SLS To: Christine Robb CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <371f7f00.3d04.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Before too many people pass that along, have a look at : >http://www.snopes.com/toxins/shampoo.htm > >and you'll see that it is a chain letter, with false (or confused) claims, >dating from 1998. > > >Christine > Sorry about getting taken in by this. You will note this from the ACS article: "Sodium lauryl sulfate is an irritant, and a shampoo containing 15% SLS is mainly tolerable only because it comes in contact with the scalp for just a few minutes and is diluted with water while in use." This does make it an environmental concern for people such as myself who have chemical allergies. Such chemicals do contribute to the increased sensitivity we all develop and need to be concerned about. There is a large petro-chemical industry out there spewing out numerous products of which we do not truly know the consequences. None of us are getting out of this life alive, but must we pollute the world while we're here?? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:23:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 13:11:46 -0700 From: South Bay English Country Dance Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SLS To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990422201146.0093b0a0-AT- mail.geocities.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >This does make it an environmental concern for people such as myself who have >chemical allergies. Such chemicals do contribute to the increased sensitivity >we all develop and need to be concerned about. There is a large petro-chemical >industry out there spewing out numerous products of which we do not truly know >the consequences. > >None of us are getting out of this life alive, but must we pollute the world >while we're here?? > funny me. I thought this was a mailing list about english country dancing. does it mean I can now feel free to bring up my concerns about: "Kosovo and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans", "the right to bear arms", "Clinton's sexual live", "SUVs and the upcoming oil crisis", "lack of reliable public transportation in California"..... [add your favourite pet peeve here]... :-))) Giovanni De Amici ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 14:29:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:28:19 -0400 From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SLS To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, South Bay English Country Dance wrote: > [Andy Peterson wrote:] > >This does make it an environmental concern for people such as myself who have > >chemical allergies. Such chemicals do contribute to the increased sensitivity > >we all develop and need to be concerned about. [snip] > does it mean I can now feel free to bring up my concerns about: > "Kosovo and ethnic cleansing in the Balkans", "the right to bear arms", > "Clinton's sexual live", "SUVs and the upcoming oil crisis", "lack of > reliable public transportation in California"..... [add your favourite pet > peeve here]... :-))) > Giovanni De Amici If knowing about other dancers' sensitivities to common chemicals can help the rest of us avoid poisoning them on the dance floor, then I think Andy Peterson's post quoted above was well within the boundaries of what this list is intended to cover. Susie Lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:35:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: SLS To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <6cf03e6a.24510b9d-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 4/22/99 6:19:44 PM, Andy Peterson wrote: <> Hey, folks, It is just this sort of wild, unsupported statement which makes many people unsympathetic to valid concerns of people who are truly sensitive to certain substances. While I have quoted only a small portion of Andy's message and "bulletin," there is nothing in the entire message which gives the recipient a clue as to 1) does this mean the chance of getting cancer, in general, has increased nearly 3000-fold in the past 10 years? (certainly not the case), 2) does this mean that the chance of getting cancer has increased by that amount in humans exposed to sodium laureth sulfate in the past 10 years?, 3)if this be the case, what evidence are you aware of which supports this claim? 4) what kind of cancers have been found? 5) what kind of study was done - are you really talking about animal studies involving exposures many times greater than humans are every exposed to? Maybe SLS is responsible for some problems in some people, but this warning message does not contribute to a reasonable discussion of the problems. Carl S. Friedman, M.D. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 16:47:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:45:26 -0400 From: "Linda M. Nelson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >> In one such dance recently I found that people who were taking the time > >> to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the next > >> figure. > >I've written a contra called "No Clapping" which I deliberately made >complicated enough that people wouldn't be able to clap - and I told them so >when I called it at the Scout House in Concord! People didn't clap, but some >felt it was an infringement of their personal liberty. So it goes. Petronella without clapping (and with both couples active) had been one of my favorite contras for years, mostly because the wonderful contrast of spinning and connecting, spinning and connecting. With clapping, its reason for being seems lost, and I'd rather not dance it. I'd be interested in seeing "No Clapping". Better to write a dance which precludes clapping than ask people to not clap.... once you call attention to a possible behavior, guess what they'll think of doing? Yes, some folks will consider a dance or request for "no clapping" to be an infringement of rights. They dance for themselves. 'Nuff said. Cheers - Linda __________________________________________________ "Oh, yes. It's vital to remember who you really are. It's very important. It isn't a good idea to rely on other people or things to do it for you, you see. They always get it wrong." (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery") __________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:01:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:57:30 -0400 From: MARTHA C DAVEY Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990422.195732.-3643623.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT If the timing on the clapping is right, it doesn't preclude taking hands and connecting. Think about it. Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:45:26 -0400 "Linda M. Nelson" writes: >> >> In one such dance recently I found that people who were taking >the time >> >> to clap were actually disrupting the flow of the dance into the >next >> >> figure. >> >>I've written a contra called "No Clapping" which I deliberately made >>complicated enough that people wouldn't be able to clap - and I told >them so >>when I called it at the Scout House in Concord! People didn't clap, >but some >>felt it was an infringement of their personal liberty. > >So it goes. Petronella without clapping (and with both couples >active) had >been one of my favorite contras for years, mostly because the >wonderful >contrast of spinning and connecting, spinning and connecting. With >clapping, its reason for being seems lost, and I'd rather not dance >it. >I'd be interested in seeing "No Clapping". Better to write a dance >which >precludes clapping than ask people to not clap.... once you call >attention >to a possible behavior, guess what they'll think of doing? > >Yes, some folks will consider a dance or request for "no clapping" to >be an >infringement of rights. They dance for themselves. 'Nuff said. > >Cheers - Linda > > >__________________________________________________ >"Oh, yes. It's vital to remember who you really are. >It's very important. It isn't a good idea to rely on other >people or things to do it for you, you see. They always >get it wrong." (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery") >__________________________________________________ > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:23:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:21:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Chicoqueen-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <4267f8fb.24511700-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 4/22/1999 5:03:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, marthacd-AT- juno.com writes: > If the timing on the clapping is right, it doesn't preclude taking hands > and connecting. > Think about it. > Martha > Hear, hear! That goes for those of us who like to spin 2 or 3 times before balancing in the circle, also. Reine Wonite (Who *doesn't* clap during the Petronella figures) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 19:28:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:33:43 -0400 From: Michael S Franch Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Petronalla To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990422.223358.6478.1.franch-AT- juno.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sorry, this Petronalla reminiscence probably does definitely get us into contra-land:When I learned the dance, in the mid-70s in Baltimore, we did it with all four turning, but unlike today (at least in these parts) we did a kick or side-to-side balance (right foot swings left, left foot, right) rather than the in-and-out balance that seems dominant today. I've heard that attributed to the faster beat of today's contras.Mike Franch ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:05:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 23:00:55 -0400 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SLS chain letter To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904230305.WAA03211-AT- dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 03:13 PM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote: >Before too many people pass that along, have a look at : >http://www.snopes.com/toxins/shampoo.htm > >and you'll see that it is a chain letter, with false (or confused) claims, >dating from 1998. > > >Christine > There was also an article on this subject in the Washington Post with a lot of background on where this scare started, and several authorities quoted saying things such as "In terms of recognized medical journals, there is nothing published that would link SLS to cancer . . . " Rhetoric or Reality? By Don Oldenburg Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, October 21, 1998; Page D06 If anyone wants the full article, I can send it to you. Diane Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:59:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Lyrl Ahern Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990423035916.1257.rocketmail-AT- web106.yahoomail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT --- Joyce Crouch wrote: > Lyrl Ahern wrote: > > >>>When people clap while dancing, I am always > reminded of Phil Merrill > playing the piano at Hudson Guild Farm weekends over > 25 years ago. > While the heads sashayed across the square in > Cumberland Square Eight, > the sides would begin to clap--and Phil would simply > stop playing.<<< > > Then, what would happen, Lyrl? would he come back > in on the B part? did > the clapping and the dance continue? > > tell us more! > > Joyce Crouch > Amherst MA It was Phil's effort to teach us that we were enough off the beat to make it hard for him to play. There was usually a pithy comment or two, and then we'd start over, without the clapping. Another comment I like about clapping was from Ric Masten, poet/songwriter. When the audience, of which I was a part, responded to a particularly moving song with silence, he said, "Thank you for not clapping. I worry about Pavlov's dogs." ---Lyrl _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:10:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, Colin Hume wrote: > I've written a contra called "No Clapping" which I deliberately made > complicated enough that people wouldn't be able to clap - and I told them so > when I called it at the Scout House in Concord! People didn't clap, but some > felt it was an infringement of their personal liberty. > > Of course I wouldn't dream of publishing a contra dance on the ECD list! Dream, hell. What's the dance? Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:11:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:08:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Chemicals To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 22 Apr 1999 adpete-AT- jps.net wrote: As someone who is also sensitive to some chemicals, especially perfumes, I sympathize with your problem, and also wish people would not wear them to social occasions where body contact takes place, like dances. However, the "Health and Safety Tip" you sent along is, alas, a piece of unscientific nonsense that's been circulating on the internet for a while. A couple of points: > So I called one company, and I told them their product > contains a substance that will cause people to have cancer. They said "Yes, > we knew about it but there is nothing we can do about it, because we need that > substance to produce foam." Think about it: in a lawsuit-conscious age, a company representative tells a customer that they knowingly include a carcinogen in their product, but "there is nothing we can do about it"? This strains credibility, but not as much as the next paragraph. > Research has shown that in the 1980s, the chance of getting cancer is 1 out > of 8000 and now, in the 1990s, the chances of getting cancer is 1 out of 3, > which is very serious. So I hope that you will take this seriously and pass > this on to all the people you know. Hopefully, we can stop "giving" ourselves > the cancer virus. An increase like this would amount to a 2,667-fold increase in the incidence of cancer, which would be making headlines, causing emergency congressional hearings, etc. etc. etc.. In fact, it's utterly untrue -- according to NPR, just yesterday, the incidence of cancer is significantly *down* in the 1990s (probably due to many people quitting smoking in the 1960s and 1970s). (The source of the report was the Centers for Disease Control.) And as far as "giving" ourselves the cancer virus -- sodium laureth sulfate, whatever its possibly harmful properties, is not a virus. > This is serious, after you have read this, pass it on to as many people as possible, > this is not a chain letter, but it concerns our health. It is a general rule that any piece of e-mail instructing you to pass it along to as many people as possible is a hoax of some sort, benign or malignant. This one certainly is. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:18:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:08:20 +0100 From: Martin Appleby Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Petronella To: "'ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU'" Message-ID: <632EFBD43E7DD211AE140000F84A96652F0C1D-AT- w1bhxu01.radio.bbc.co.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT SIGNOFF Martin Appleby - Digicoach Tel (03) 0410 705 957 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 06:20:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 22 Apr 1999, MARTHA C DAVEY wrote: > If the timing on the clapping is right, it doesn't preclude taking hands > and connecting. > Think about it. I have thought about it. One is essentially trying to take hands at the moment of the balance. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It still takes away the intensity of the shared moment before the balance for me, and I valued that. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:51:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:51:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904231451.JAA19682-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT MARTHA C DAVEY writes: > > If the timing on the clapping is right, it doesn't preclude taking hands > and connecting. > Think about it. This has been my experience. I had not witnessed the clapping phenomenon prior to last fall. Due to discussions on this list and rec.folk-dancing I had a negative impression of it, sight unseen. At a dance last fall there was one dance which included the balance-and-spin figure (I don't recall if the dance was Petronella or some other dance with that figure). Many of the people did the clapping and while my initial feeling was "Oh no! The horror of the clapping!", it ended up being no where near as bad as I had been lead to believe. For the most part everyone was able to do the clapping (while spinning?) and finish in time to take hands again for the next repetition. This didn't seem to be a problem at all. In fact it was no worse than that figure usually is. There are always a few people who have trouble getting it, they spin and or move the wrong direction and are not in sync with the music and thus aren't there to take hands for the next figure. Whether it disrupted the music or not is more difficult to say. I guess I'm undecided about whether the clapping is a Good Thing (TM), a Bad Thing (TM) or Just A Thing (TM). I would have to see the dance with the clapping more than just the one time to form a more definite opinion. To bring this a little more on topic, I am accustomed to clapping twice while turning around in the B part of Dublin Bay. It may not be the approved style, but that is the way I learned it and it seems to fit with the dance and music. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:22:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 12:21:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Chicoqueen-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Petronella peeves To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <1f4edc34.2451f7ec-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 4/23/99 7:54:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, j-sivier-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes: > At a dance last fall > there was one dance which included the balance-and-spin figure (I don't > recall if the dance was Petronella or some other dance with that figure). > Many of the people did the clapping and while my initial feeling was "Oh no! > The horror of the clapping!", it ended up being no where near as bad as I > had been lead to believe. I agree with Jonathan, after having a similar introduction (heard about the horrors, found the actual experience relatively benign) to "the clap." But I can appreciate the irritation musicians might experience when the sound of the clapping arrives on stage from the bottom of larger halls somewhat delayed -- I assume such musicians have no tolerance for syncopation. What *does* bother me is the addition of crying "whee!" to the whole spin-clap thing, which has gained some popularity in South California. Reine Wonite Chico, N CA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:39:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:35:45 -0400 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "Playford Ball" in Cambridge, MA 5/8 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A PLAYFORD BALL! A Joyous Dance Evening for All! Saturday, May 8 at 8 PM in Cambridge, Massachusetts As the final event in its 1998-99 series, RENAISSONICS invites you to a real English Costume Ball with renowned dance musicians John Tyson, recorders, Earl Gaddis, violin & Jacqueline Schwab, harpsichord. Acclaimed historical dance specialist Charles Garth will call the dances. This joyous evening of dancing, merriment and music takes place on Saturday, May 8 at 8 PM at Jewett Hall (First Church Congregational), 11 Garden Street in Harvard Square, Cambridge. Period costume or formal attire encouraged. Need to learn or practice the dances? Charles Garth will lead an afternoon workshop session in Jewett Hall on Saturday, May 8, from 5-7 PM. For further information, please call 617/661-1812. WHO John Tyson, recorders, pipe & tabor (director) Earl Gaddis, violin; Jacqueline Schwab, harpsichord with Charles Garth, dance caller WHAT PLAYFORD BALL Saturday, May 8, 1999 at 8 PM A Real English Costume Ball and joyous evening of dance for everyone! Period costume or formal attire suggested EXTRA! Need to learn or practice the dances? Workshop session, 5-7 PM on Saturday, May 8 at Jewett Hall WHERE Jewett Hall, First Church Congregational 11 Garden St (Harvard Sq), Cambridge. 5 minutes from the MBTA's Redline/Harvard Square Station ADMISSION $15 ($10 for students/seniors) WORKSHOP ADMISSION $10 PHONE (617) 661-3353 Posted for Renaissonics by Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:45:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 13:40:48 -0400 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "Playford Ball" in Cambridge, MA 5/8 oops! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ACK! WRONG PHONE NUMBER! 617/661-3353 is the right one (I've been doing too much Boston Early Music Festival stuff...) A PLAYFORD BALL! A Joyous Dance Evening for All! Saturday, May 8 at 8 PM in Cambridge, Massachusetts As the final event in its 1998-99 series, RENAISSONICS invites you to a real English Costume Ball with renowned dance musicians John Tyson, recorders, Earl Gaddis, violin & Jacqueline Schwab, harpsichord. Acclaimed historical dance specialist Charles Garth will call the dances. This joyous evening of dancing, merriment and music takes place on Saturday, May 8 at 8 PM at Jewett Hall (First Church Congregational), 11 Garden Street in Harvard Square, Cambridge. Period costume or formal attire encouraged. Need to learn or practice the dances? Charles Garth will lead an afternoon workshop session in Jewett Hall on Saturday, May 8, from 5-7 PM. For further information, please call 617/661-3353 (this is the RIGHT phone #). WHO John Tyson, recorders, pipe & tabor (director) Earl Gaddis, violin; Jacqueline Schwab, harpsichord with Charles Garth, dance caller WHAT PLAYFORD BALL Saturday, May 8, 1999 at 8 PM A Real English Costume Ball and joyous evening of dance for everyone! Period costume or formal attire suggested EXTRA! Need to learn or practice the dances? Workshop session, 5-7 PM on Saturday, May 8 at Jewett Hall WHERE Jewett Hall, First Church Congregational 11 Garden St (Harvard Sq), Cambridge. 5 minutes from the MBTA's Redline/Harvard Square Station ADMISSION $15 ($10 for students/seniors) WORKSHOP ADMISSION $10 PHONE (617) 661-3353 Posted for Renaissonics by Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:49:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:02:20 +0100 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ceilidh To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT "Paul J. Stamler" wrote: > I have a question for those on the list who do ceilidh dancing along with > Playford: What are a dozen or so good dances to try out in a group that > has only done Playford in the past? If the group has done Playford I don't think there'll be any problem with the difficulty level of the dances - ceilidh dances tend to be pretty easy, some would say almost by definition. A couple of good pages to try for dances would be: http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~thomas.green/BarnDances/index.html http://www.scroft.demon.co.uk/CDance.html You might also like to look at my "Comparison of UK / US dance scenes" pages for some more description of the atmosphere at an English ceilidh (www.hottub.demon.co.uk). As someone (Alan?) has already pointed out, the music is a big deal - go for energetic, lively and "lumpy" rather than sweet, lyrical and flowing. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:49:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:21:38 +0100 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Clapping - a confession To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I can see I'm setting myself up for a whole lot of trouble by saying this but here goes.... I went to a ceilidh a couple of weeks ago and during the dance, while I was standing around watching the top couple galop down the middle and back I clapped in time with the music. And you know what? It felt great - it might have been evil and sinful but it was fun (wasn't there an episode of the Waltons where John-boy said something very similar after being caught kissing a girl behind the barn?) Anyway, to get back to what is a vaguely serious point, I have clapped at dances simply as an expression that I'm having a good time. I don't mean to put the musicians off, or indicate that I'm dancing purely for myself and I wouldn't clap when I was meant to be using my hands for something else - but if I'm feeling good and having a good time at a dance I clap as an exuberant gesture of enjoyment. (Incidentally, I don't mean these comments to apply particularly to Petronella because I haven't done the dance enough to really form an opinion - it's not a popular dance in the UK) This gives me a dilemma. I'm a musician myself so I know how difficult it is to keep a steady beat when you have a hall full of dancers all clapping out of time and getting faster (and I recall someone going through the physics on rec.folk-dancing to show that a reasonable size hall of dancers cannot help but clap out of time). I definitely appreciate the problems when people are clapping rather than doing something else such as taking hands. At the same time though there is nothing quite beats the feeling of a hall of dancers having a great time, clapping and cheering along as the 1s galop down the middle of the set. Maybe this is just another of those things that is great fun, but shouldn't be done in public - a "greater good" type setup. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 14:50:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:55:50 +0100 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella & which list To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I don't know. Alan goes away for a few days and the list degenerates into all sorts of non-ECD discussions. In the interests of retaining some semblance of the list's former character for Alan's return I shall try and post on topic [FX: Cries of "swot, swot" echo across the classroom] "Lawrence N. Stout" wrote: > I remember a variant done in the early 70's in longways lines proper, > starting with the petronella figure done in rant step 2 turning, 2 in > place, inactive couple starting in on the second set of turns. By the > end of the A music everyone is (approximately) back in place. For B the > active couple goes down the middle and back and then couples change > places while turning using either a rant or a step hop, I don't remember > which. This has a lot of the character I associate with English ceilidh > dances. Is there a version currently being done in that scene? This is _very_ similar to Roxburgh Castle as given in CDM 6. RC has the turns done with everybody starting at the same time, and also only one step to turn, one in place. This means that at the end of A1 everyone is back in place. A2 is right and left hand star, then the B music is down the middle and back followed by couples dance around each other, as in Laurence's dance. I don't think it's done a lot these days. Most of the dancers on the "dance" scene don't want to do anything quite as energetic as ranting and most of the dancers on the ceilidh scene don't seem to be able to rant very well. It's a pity because it's one of my favourite danes and it has a fantastic tune. Bob P.S. Does anyone know how I can email an apple to Alan so it'll appear on his desk when he gets back? ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 15:19:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 18:19:15 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Alan's whereabouts To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01JADRDEWP9E8ZF3UR-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Friends, Although Alan has been away, he has not been out of range: he has been staying with me during the past two days while attending the Annual Governing Board meetings at CDSS (he is a fledgling member), and he knows what you're up to. only the messenger, Robin Hayden exhausted in Amherst ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:23:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 16:17:36 -0700 From: Norman Bradley Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping - a confession To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990423160503.0095f1f0-AT- pop.slip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I perform in an English Country dance troupe on the US west coast (northern California). As we are a performance group and our band has a VERY GOOD sense of rhythm, we usually can ignore the speed ups and slow downs that can occur with non musicians and dancers (from the audience). Generally we clap IN the set on certain dances (i.e. Merry, Merry, Milk Maids and others) when one half of the set is "just standing there". This has developed over the years. In performance we also use clapping to get the audience involved. Norman Bradley Merri Pryankster Codger At 02:21 PM 4/23/99 , you wrote: > > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:21:38 +0100 > From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk > Subject: Clapping - a confession > Sender: owner-ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > > I can see I'm setting myself up for a whole lot of trouble by saying this but > here goes.... > > I went to a ceilidh a couple of weeks ago and during the dance, while I was > standing around watching the top couple galop down the middle and back I > clapped in time with the music. And you know what? It felt great - it might > have been evil and sinful but it was fun (wasn't there an episode of the > Waltons where John-boy said something very similar after being caught kissing > a girl behind the barn?) > > Anyway, to get back to what is a vaguely serious point, I have clapped at > dances simply as an expression that I'm having a good time. I don't mean to > put the musicians off, or indicate that I'm dancing purely for myself and I > wouldn't clap when I was meant to be using my hands for something else - but > if I'm feeling good and having a good time at a dance I clap as an exuberant > gesture of enjoyment. > > (Incidentally, I don't mean these comments to apply particularly to > Petronella because I haven't done the dance enough to really form an opinion > - it's not a popular dance in the UK) > > This gives me a dilemma. I'm a musician myself so I know how difficult it is > to keep a steady beat when you have a hall full of dancers all clapping out > of time and getting faster (and I recall someone going through the physics on > rec.folk-dancing to show that a reasonable size hall of dancers cannot help > but clap out of time). I definitely appreciate the problems when people are > clapping rather than doing something else such as taking hands. At the same > time though there is nothing quite beats the feeling of a hall of dancers > having a great time, clapping and cheering along as the 1s galop down the > middle of the set. > > Maybe this is just another of those things that is great fun, but shouldn't > be done in public - a "greater good" type setup. > > Bob > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:00:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:00:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping - a confession To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Norman Bradley wrote: > In performance we also use clapping to get the audience involved. I've been to performances where the performers get the audience involved by encouraging them to clap. It meant that I (and most of the others in the audience) couldn't hear the music we had come to hear. I stopped going to those performance. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:35:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:34:00 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Ceilidh, Petronella, and Apples To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <29b4355d.24533e68-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I know that while Alan's away, Steve is watching closely to assure that we stay on topic, but I maintain that all the comments I have seen so far are on topic because they grew out of a discussion of ECD (and you should see what they're discussing right now on the anesthesiology list). With that in mind: Bob Archer wrote: >As someone (Alan?) has already pointed out, the music is a big >deal - go for energetic, lively and "lumpy" rather than sweet, >lyrical and flowing. "Lumpy." I love it. I can hear the clotted cream. also: >P.S. Does anyone know how I can email an apple to Alan so it'll >appear on his desk when he gets back? I suppose that depends upon whether or not Alan is running Apple's system software. Finally: It's been a long time since I did "Petronella." Maybe since the early 1980s, when I did it rather frequently. I have never seen anybody clapping during the dance, but I recall back then a variant that was catching on: The inactive couple would join in on the turns but go the wrong way around the circle (this has to be done very gracefully). Is anybody still doing this? ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:55:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:55:25 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella peeves To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904241155_MC2-733F-4151-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A number of years ago a local Contra Dance caller said to me (as close as I can remmber) " I used to decrey the RSCDS as a bunch of old fogies but now I wish that we had something like it in Contra dancing. I believe in evolution but what i am seeing is revolution and I forsee both disastrous change and burnout". Well-revolution is what I am seeing in the discussion (and in the dancing) of Petronella. This only reinforces my thoughts on NOT dancing Contras anymore. Petronella, as it is being danced, is not only a major change from the traditional New England Contra that I learned over 50 years ago (and is still being danced by the Larkin dancers) but has become many dances, all with the same name, but with little in common. The rotation has changed from a "Petronella" turn and balance to a twirl; the emphasis has been placed on the circle (which NEVER existed in the original dance): the balance has changed from a step swing or a pas-de-basque to an in out "southern mountain type" balance (my dear departed wife called it a Beverly Hilllbillys balance): clapping has entered the picture; etc. OK, if that is what you want, then go ahead and do it, but let's not call it Petronella anymore (and count me out). As far as I am concerned it is no longer that dance-it is just danced to the music of Petronella, and I'll stick to the discipline of English or Scottish Country dance Ben Stein Burlington, Vt USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com P.S. As to the Scottish National Anthem. As a Non-Scot I am smart enough to keep out of that discussion entirely! I don't even own a twelve foot pole (for everyones information-a twelve foot pole is one you use to touch something that you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 08:56:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:56:16 -0400 (EDT) From: JoAnne Rawls Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990424155616.93938.qmail-AT- hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jonathan Sivier wrote: (experiences with Petronella snipped) >To >bring this a little more on topic, I am accustomed to clapping twice while >turning around in the B part of Dublin Bay. It may not be the approved style, >but that is the way I learned it and it seems to fit with the dance and music. > >Jonathan > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >| Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | >| j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | >| Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | >| Beckman Institute | | >| 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | >| Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | >| Work: 217/244-1923 | | >| Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | >--------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >| Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | >--------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Jonathan, At the risk of incurring wrath for starting up another thread that has been discussed before, let me just say that I agree with you about the two claps while turning in Dublin Bay. That's the way we do it in Williamsburg, and it's great fun! JoAnne Rawls Newport News, VA _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:24:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:58:15 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: OOPS! To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904241158_MC2-733F-4167-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My apologies! The comments in the P.S. have to do with a thread on Strathspey-the Scottish Country Dance list. I should know better than to combine answers on two different threads in the same message. Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA dancers-AT- compuserve.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:48:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:53:22 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 5/1 ECD Festival, Woodstock NY To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990424133619.00c6d8e0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dancers wanting to enjoy a full day's English Country Dancing may care to travel to Woodstock, New York [off the Kingston exit of the NY Thruway] next Saturday for the 2nd annual Spring Fling. This benefit mini-festival [this year the proceeds are to go to the Dance Flurry, to CDSS, and to a local animal shelter] runs from noon to midnight, with a dinner break roughly from 6-7. It takes place at the Woodstock Community Center, on Rock City Road just a couple of blocks north of Woodstock's main street. Talent appearing at this year's Spring Fling include the bands Hudson Crossing and King's Delight, musicans Roger Davidson, Marnen Laibow-Koser, and Michael Siemon, and callers Barbara Kidney, Patricia Evans, Peter Stix, John Huhn, Paul Ross, Danny Walkowitz, Don Bell, and Sharon Green (who will stagger in towards dinner time, having spent the morning molly-dancing in celebration of Ring O'Bells 25th anniversary). Hope to see some of you in Woodstock Saturday, or at Gene Murrow's dance near Albany the next day. Hugs to As Many As Will-- Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 01:37:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 04:34:14 -0400 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904250436_MC2-7348-3C29-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> > Of course I wouldn't dream of publishing a contra dance on the ECD >> list! Dream, hell. What's the dance? "No Clapping" is in "Dances with a Difference, Volume 5", available from CDSS. Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 09:13:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:11:29 -0400 (EDT) From: S2LINEN-AT- aol.com Subject: D.C. Ball Car pool To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <1e24623.245498b1-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Is anyone from the NY/NJ/CONN car pooling to the DC Ball. I am a good driver, am small and packs light. Willing to go a day early/ share expenses too. Thanks Sandra from CDNY. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 12:24:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:57:09 -0330 From: "Martin E. Mulligan" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dancing in England To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Greetings, One of our dancers will be in the Gloucestershire area of England from 28th April-2nd May and again from 15th-18th May. Are there any English Country Dances in that area during those times? She will be also be travelling to the Borders (Gretna Green) between the dates above. Does anyone know if there is any ECD within easy reach during those dates? Also, are there any music stores that would carry ECD music in the Gloucester/Cheltenham area? Thanks in advance for any info. Martin ========================================================================= Martin E. Mulligan St. John's (Newfoundland) mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca =========================================================================ÌÓ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 14:41:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 17:40:58 -0400 From: JHMTurner Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Clapping - another 'confession' To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904251741_MC2-735C-2FD9-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I wholeheartedly agree with Bob Archer's sentiments. Clapping is very much an accepted part of the Country Dance scene in the UK today. I'm also reliably informed by a friend, who is researching Playford dances, that clapping (as well as snuff taking, and hand jives etc) appears in the 17th & 18th C manuscripts. It is reasonable to assume that it was an integral part of the traditional dance scene; one can imagine the rhythm, perhaps from a single (unamplified) fiddler sat at the front of a packed hall of harvest revellers, being propagated down the hall, by means of the participants clapping. It is still with us today, it very quickly creates a relaxed and welcoming atmosphere, particularly in Community events, and as Bob points out, it is a natural way to express your enjoyment and to encourage dancers to greater endeavours, particularly when solo or visiting couple parts are being performed or couples are inactive. So if its ECD you're dancing and you're going for authenticity then clapping is in! (Admittedly its almost exclusive to the non- Playford style of dances - which do however account for well over 50% of the dances we perform). John T Message text written by INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU >I can see I'm setting myself up for a whole lot of trouble by saying this but here goes.... I went to a ceilidh a couple of weeks ago and during the dance, while I was standing around watching the top couple galop down the middle and back I clapped in time with the music. And you know what? It felt great - it might have been evil and sinful but it was fun (wasn't there an episode of the Waltons where John-boy said something very similar after being caught kissing a girl behind the barn?) Anyway, to get back to what is a vaguely serious point, I have clapped at dances simply as an expression that I'm having a good time. I don't mean to put the musicians off, or indicate that I'm dancing purely for myself and I wouldn't clap when I was meant to be using my hands for something else - but if I'm feeling good and having a good time at a dance I clap as an exuberant gesture of enjoyment. (Incidentally, I don't mean these comments to apply particularly to Petronella because I haven't done the dance enough to really form an opinion - it's not a popular dance in the UK) This gives me a dilemma. I'm a musician myself so I know how difficult it is to keep a steady beat when you have a hall full of dancers all clapping out of time and getting faster (and I recall someone going through the physics on rec.folk-dancing to show that a reasonable size hall of dancers cannot help but clap out of time). I definitely appreciate the problems when people are clapping rather than doing something else such as taking hands. At the same time though there is nothing quite beats the feeling of a hall of dancers having a great time, clapping and cheering along as the 1s galop down the middle of the set. Maybe this is just another of those things that is great fun, but shouldn't be done in public - a "greater good" type setup. Bob < ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 19:36:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 16:20:05 -0700 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ceilidh, Petronella, and Apples To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT David Barnert wrote some very clever things about my favorite English treat and how to be a virtual teacher's pet and the following: >Finally: It's been a long time since I did "Petronella." Maybe >since the early 1980s, when I did it rather frequently. I have >never seen anybody clapping during the dance, but I recall back >then a variant that was catching on: The inactive couple would >join in on the turns but go the wrong way around the circle (this >has to be done very gracefully). Is anybody still doing this? I remember doing this too - in the DC area. I really enjoyed it, but haven't been able to teach it on the fly to my partners out here. Maybe they have to see it before the idea of it sinks in. Perhaps I could convince someone to run to the bottom of a set and try to be the extra couple out at the end for the first round and teach it then. What a concept. It might even surprise the clap right out of the actives (so to speak). I love it! Laurie Buchanan Eugene, OR ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:13:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:13:01 +0100 From: Hugh Stewart Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fried Herman's tour of England To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37244A3D.B9F0145C-AT- ugsolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Currently Fried Herman is touring round England. Since someone has asked me to send him the dates, and I have typed them all in I may as well post them here as well so as to get my own back on those Americans who advertise dances thousands of miles away from me. Tuesday 27th April Salisbury (John Turner 01703 360892) Friday 30th - Monday May 1st Eastbourne festival Saturday May 8th Littlebourne (nr Canterbury) (David Stephens 01843 591701) Tuesday May 11th Ipswich (Christine Hembury 01473 720968) Thursday May 13th Cambridge (Hugh Stewart 01223 368641) Saturday May 15th Sheffield (Trevor Monson 01142 882685) Wednesday May 19th Witcombe Glos. (Hazel Moir 01594 510276) Saturday May 22nd Claygate, Surrey (Pam Phillips 01372 373745) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 04:36:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:41:03 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fried Herman's tour of England To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990426073802.00b1dd80-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: At 12:13 PM 4/26/99 +0100, Hugh Stewart wrote: >Currently Fried Herman is touring round England. >Since someone has asked me to send him the dates, and I >have typed them all in I may as well post them here >as well so as to get my own back on those Americans who >advertise dances thousands of miles away from me. Dear Hugh, You _do_ know we do it only to tempt you to cross the pond... (~: Hugs to Fried & Al when next you meet. See you at Lichfield Festival, I hope. Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 05:19:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:18:38 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NEFFA report To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: rgoodman-AT- albany.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: I'm pleased to report that we did some very nice ECD at NEFFA this year, including Nottingham Swing. Thanks to the callers and bands! Ron and I both thought, and discovered when comparing notes on the trip home, that there seemed to be fewer "beginners" who were trying out English by prancing around doing the "prissy" thing. We wondered if this was because there has been enough exposure to ECD to kind of instill the idea that it's just not that way? Some of the first time folks may have started out with the "deer in headlights" look as Ron describes it, but most of them left happy and thrilled to have completed the dance without hurting themselves or others. (Including the couple who found themselves the third couple in a set for Fandango on Saturday night in the lower hall - maybe we should leave now.... oh no - you can DO this! and they did.) Also must mention the WONDERFUL performance by the Boston CDS group on Sunday in the Main Hall. Three Dances - each done enough times through that you could really see what the dancing was all about, and not mixed into any thing else and with simple, elegant set changes inbetween them. What a beautiful thing to watch. One musical comment - love to listen to Bare Necessities and love to dance to them and love to be with them. Notice that many other groups are adopting their style or trying to. Miss having some bass line to provide dance direction. Somehow with BN I can usually find the driving rhythm. With many of the other groups all I hear under the melody line is a bit of doodling about. Just something for musicians to chew on. Thanks! Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 05:36:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 08:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Comrades, I'm not trying to single anyone out, but... Let's face it, most people can't clap in time to the music. And they don't know it. Further, people who think they can clap in time to the music, because they are musicians... Well, usually they can't *clap* in time to the music either, even if they can play their instrument in time. The clappers remind me of the people who insist on twirling and twirling and twirling and.... whoa! the next figure has started and we're behind! Must be someone else's fault! But ultimately it comes down to flogging dead horses. Now, if only those folks could *flog* in time to the music... Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:05:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:04:53 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: Ceilidh, Petronella, and Apples To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37246475.1738.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >David Barnert wrote some very clever things about my favorite English treat >and how to be a virtual teacher's pet and the following: > >>Finally: It's been a long time since I did "Petronella." Maybe >>since the early 1980s, when I did it rather frequently. I have >>never seen anybody clapping during the dance, but I recall back >>then a variant that was catching on: The inactive couple would >>join in on the turns but go the wrong way around the circle (this >>has to be done very gracefully). Is anybody still doing this? > >I remember doing this too - in the DC area. I really enjoyed it, but >haven't been able to teach it on the fly to my partners out here. Maybe >they have to see it before the idea of it sinks in. Perhaps I could >convince someone to run to the bottom of a set and try to be the extra >couple out at the end for the first round and teach it then. What a >concept. It might even surprise the clap right out of the actives (so to >speak). I love it! > >Laurie Buchanan >Eugene, OR > I haven't done this variation since before I left Hartford. I'd all but forgotten about it until David brought it up. Laurie, you just haven't tried it with the right guy yet. Next time your'e up here we just have to talk the caller into doing Petronella then start at the bottom of the center set. You know, that set with all the people who THINK they know it all. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:08:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:11:16 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: clapping to music To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >But I >can appreciate the irritation musicians might experience when the sound of >the clapping arrives on stage from the bottom of larger halls somewhat >delayed -- I assume such musicians have no tolerance for syncopation. Speaking as a musician, I want to point out that there is no similarity between late/scattered/distance-delayed clapping, and syncopation, which emphasises the off-beat. In, for example, The Bishop (A music) and Shrewsbury Lasses (B music) syncopation gives a strong feeling of pulse, and adds energy to the music. In general, I think the band should take it as a compliment if people clap. They don't do it if the band isn't exciting to listen and dance to. Back to Petronella - are most people starting the dance with the twirl, then balancing? Here in Salt Lake the fashion is to start with the balance (for all four), and then twirl. Thus, clapping makes you let go hands early, so you can't get and receive a little push into the twirl. I don't enjoy having someone pull their hand out of mine in order to clap, but then, I rarely get to dance Petronella or any variant, as hardly anyone except me calls it. I decided not to worry about the clapping - I don't think Fun Police is my role. Emma - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:33:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:35:47 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: clapping To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Comrades, > >I'm not trying to single anyone out, but... Let's face it, most people >can't clap in time to the music. And they don't know it. Further, people >who think they can clap in time to the music, because they are >musicians... Well, usually they can't *clap* in time to the music either, >even if they can play their instrument in time. Now, why on earth would that be? I'm not saying it isn't so, but it seems very odd to me. I wonder if this is related to something I've often noticed - when I listen to a metronome, it keeps perfect time, but as soon as I start playing along, that metronome is just all over the place - fast one moment, slow the next. I suppose my point is that playing in perfect time is very very difficult. Usually you are listening to the tunes and harmony, and don't notice the very slight variations in tempo. Musicians listen to each other, and stay in time with each other, adapting a little bit all the time. In many types of music, playing in _strict_ tempo is undesirable - it means you are not really feeling the music. Even in dance music, you can't expect the musicians to become metronomes themselves. They are feeling the flow of the tune, when it climaxes, when it falls away. When dancers clap, they impose their tempo on the musicians. It may be a little faster than musicians would like, or it may be slower. Either way it prevents the musicians from giving the beat any flexibility. The distance effect will also scatter the clapping beat, and confuse things. That being said, I don't mind when people clap. As I mentioned in a previous post, I take it as a compliment. Emma PS, I have seen bands who play along to an electronic drum beat. Can anyone tell me if this is difficult to learn to do? It seems to me that it would be as bad as trying to play to a metronome. - Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0840 (801) 585-1926 (office) (801) 585-9425 (lab) (801) 581-4668 (fax) rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:51:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:55:58 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37249A9E.6082-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904231451.JAA19682-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Oh, dear! I assumed this was pollution from the Petronella clap! It recently appeared in my area -- to my great sorrow.... Mary Kay Friday Washington, D.C. Jonathan Sivier wrote: > To bring this a little more on topic, I am accustomed to clapping twice while > turning around in the B part of Dublin Bay. It may not be the approved style, > but that is the way I learned it and it seems to fit with the dance and music. > > Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:26:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:25:37 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: clapping, homecoming, NEFFA, etc. To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JAHGL3MEV29ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- Well, I'm back from my whirlwind tour of some parts of Massachusetts, and caught up on my list reading. Scattered points: (1) Clapping in "Petronella" is a different question than clapping to the music generally, and I'm glad a new subject line was started for it. On Petronella, incidentally, Dudley Laufman wrote recently on rec.folk-dancing that the "Citronella" (all four involved) variant was the result of a couple having done "Roxburgh Castle" the week before and applying it to Petronella. (2) Geeze, what's "Galopede" or "La Russe" without clapping? It seems to me that there's a genre of barn dance / ceilidh dance which have intervals where only one couple is active (swinging, in those examples) and the people standing around can get a feeling of participation in the action by clapping - or maybe by stepping in place, but clapping is easier - and it adds to the excitement and interest of the dance. One of the crucial things is that those intervals have definite end points, so that the clapping stops and even if the musicians haven't been able to ignore it, they have most of the tune to recover. (I think reels tend to promote clapping more than jigs do, but a lot depends on how the tune is played. If the beat is very strongly marked and people are just standing around for very long, they're likely to clap.) (3) Please, never forward anything that says "Forward this to everyone you know." The only petitions/calls to action that I want to see on the ECD list are ones with very clear connections to country dance, eg, "Write your congressman to save the Spanish Ballroom at Glen Echo." "FCC threatens modem tax" does not have a clear connection to country dance. In general, not just on the ECD list, you should only ever consider forwarding petitions/calls to action if they include dates (not "last Tuesday" but actual dates with months and years, not only the date written but the date by which the petition should be retired). (4) NEFFA was pretty overwhelming; I'm just a country boy from California and I haven't seen anything like this back home. [We have the Free Folk Festival, but I think it's something like a tenth the size.] It was great to meet so many ECD subscribers there, at the CDSS Board meeting, and at the Wednesday night Arlington dance. (5) I actually saw Robin's note (about my knowing what you've been up to -- which was true, since she gave me daily updates at the CDSS meeting) on Friday evening, reading it on Craig Johnson's laptop in a Natick hotel room. I tried to post a reply, but the list software foiled me - Craig's mail software was configured with a different address than the one he'd subscribed under, so the message bounced. This gives me even more sympathy for the problems some other subscribers have. The note that bounced said, approximately: "Robin is quite right. I know when you're on-topic, I know when you just lurk. I know if you post good or ill - so post good, for goodness's sake!" and concluded with my version of the Green Lantern oath: "In brighest day, in blackest night, no ECD shall escape my sight." -- Alan (glad to be back, even with a ferocious cold.) =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:28:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:32:36 -0800 From: Laurie Andres Subject: Re: clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3724BF51.94D7C896-AT- earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; x-mac-creator=4D4F5353; x-mac-type=54455854; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Emma Rushton wrote: (snip) > I suppose my point is that playing in perfect time is very very difficult. > Usually you are listening to the tunes and harmony, and don't notice the > very slight variations in tempo. Musicians listen to each other, and stay > in time with each other, adapting a little bit all the time. In many types > of music, playing in _strict_ tempo is undesirable - it means you are not > really feeling the music. Even in dance music, you can't expect the > musicians to become metronomes themselves. They are feeling the flow of > the tune, when it climaxes, when it falls away. When dancers clap, they > impose their tempo on the musicians. It may be a little faster than > musicians would like, or it may be slower. Either way it prevents the > musicians from giving the beat any flexibility. The distance effect will > also scatter the clapping beat, and confuse things. True to a point. There can be a very natural slight ebb and flow to the music related to the phrasing and melody. However, once it becomes noticeable to the dancers it has gone too far. Then it is just poor timing. > That being said, I don't mind when people clap. As I mentioned in a > previous post, I take it as a compliment. A Healthy attitude. > Emma > > PS, I have seen bands who play along to an electronic drum beat. Can > anyone tell me if this is difficult to learn to do? It seems to me that it > would be as bad as trying to play to a metronome. Gack! What an abomination! When I was in London in 1981, I went to an Irish music session in Camden Town to hear Bobby Casey, a wonderfully lyric fiddler and inspiration to many fiddlers including Kevin Burke. He was playing lacklusterdly with a guitarist who played 3 chords in only a vague relation to the tune, and an overbearing box player who controlled the drum machine. The music was wooden at best. It was tragic to hear a musician reduced to an impersonal omnipresent beat. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:45:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Laurie Andres wrote: > . . . The music was wooden at best. It was tragic to hear > a musician reduced to an impersonal omnipresent beat. And what, might I ask, has wood done to deserve this grievous insult? Don't knock wood, but rather knock on wood that it doesn't revolt and refuse to contribute its mello vibrations to your music-making. What should it sound like? "Scintillating, shimmering, boron-fibrous"? -Just one little wood-bee humming while the sun shines ... (;-^) EBA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:46:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 13:46:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: clapping, homecoming, NEFFA, etc. To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904261846.NAA04506-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing writes: > > (2) Geeze, what's "Galopede" or "La Russe" without clapping? It seems to > me that there's a genre of barn dance / ceilidh dance which have intervals > where only one couple is active (swinging, in those examples) and the > people standing around can get a feeling of participation in the action by > clapping - or maybe by stepping in place, but clapping is easier - and it > adds to the excitement and interest of the dance. One of the crucial > things is that those intervals have definite end points, so that the > clapping stops and even if the musicians haven't been able to ignore it, > they have most of the tune to recover. (I think reels tend to promote > clapping more than jigs do, but a lot depends on how the tune is played. > If the beat is very strongly marked and people are just standing around for > very long, they're likely to clap.) My experience is that this happens spontaneously. That is when I'm calling for novice dancers (i.e. ones that don't know any better) and I have them dance "Galopede", "Cumberland Reel" or other dances of that sort, they begin clapping on their own while the top couple goes down the center (and back). This seems to be a natural response to the music. I've never had the band express any problems with this, but I'll have to remember to ask the musicians if this was disturbing the next time. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:51:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:55:01 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Subject: Re: Ceilidh, Petronella, and Apples To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3724B685.788D-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Oh, my! Laurie, you're too clever by half, as an Englishman I used to know used to say.... So subtle I had to go back to David's post to "get it," but I enjoyed it very much! Cheers to you, and here's hoping I'll get to have a real-time exchange with you sometime soon.... Hugs, Mary Kay Laurie Buchanan wrote: > > David Barnert wrote some very clever things about my favorite English treat > and how to be a virtual teacher's pet and the following: > > >Finally: It's been a long time since I did "Petronella." Maybe > >since the early 1980s, when I did it rather frequently. I have > >never seen anybody clapping during the dance, but I recall back > >then a variant that was catching on: The inactive couple would > >join in on the turns but go the wrong way around the circle (this > >has to be done very gracefully). Is anybody still doing this? > > I remember doing this too - in the DC area. I really enjoyed it, but > haven't been able to teach it on the fly to my partners out here. Maybe > they have to see it before the idea of it sinks in. Perhaps I could > convince someone to run to the bottom of a set and try to be the extra > couple out at the end for the first round and teach it then. What a > concept. It might even surprise the clap right out of the actives (so to > speak). I love it! > > Laurie Buchanan > Eugene, OR ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:47:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:45:45 -0500 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: clapping, Galopede, syncopation To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3724C269.AD4D3C87-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904261846.NAA04506-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Jonathan Sivier wrote: > My experience is that this happens spontaneously. That is when I'm calling > for novice dancers (i.e. ones that don't know any better) and I have them > dance "Galopede", "Cumberland Reel" or other dances of that sort, they begin > clapping on their own while the top couple goes down the center (and back). > This seems to be a natural response to the music. I've never had the band > express any problems with this, but I'll have to remember to ask the musicians > if this was disturbing the next time. > > Jonathan > As one of the musicians often playing when Jonathan calls Galopede and Cumberland Reel I'll say that the clapping doesn't bother us on these dances. Now if someone started clapping on the syncopated part of the Bishop or Shrewsbury Lasses we'd have a real problem. That syncopation can be hard for the rhythm section of the band to deal with even without competition from the dancers. -- Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:10:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:12:39 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NEFFA report To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: rgoodman-AT- albany.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: >Also must mention the WONDERFUL performance by the Boston CDS group >on Sunday in the Main Hall. Three Dances - each done enough times >through that you could really see what the dancing was all about, and >not mixed into any thing else and with simple, elegant set changes >inbetween them. What a beautiful thing to watch. Thanks. We try pretty hard, but with only a speck of time for it. And I personally am glad Helene decided to run the longways more than the de rigeur three times this year, too. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:24:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 18:15:09 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904231451.JAA19682-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> At 12:55 PM -0400 4/26/99, Mary K. Friday wrote: >Oh, dear! I assumed this was pollution from the Petronella clap! It >recently appeared in my area -- to my great sorrow.... >Mary Kay Friday >Washington, D.C. Silence is hard for Americans. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:47:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:47:06 -0400 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Seeking Attender-Units: Washington Spring Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990426223659.00959800-AT- 209.183.254.10> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/ALTERNATIVE; BOUNDARY="Boundary_(ID_/M+m4wNtcqn8HynUPGo5VQ)" --Boundary_(ID_/M+m4wNtcqn8HynUPGo5VQ) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Washington Spring Ball Saturday, May 15 Whitby Gym, National Cathedral School Go to the link listed below for: Program Registration Form Links to CALLS for each dance Directions to Practice Session as well as to the Ball http://just.net/~roger/ball99.html If web browsing is not available, contact me (the registrar) for info, registration forms, etc. via Email. (In case of trouble linking to the site, try using "209.183.254.10" in place of "just.net" . . . e.g., http://209.183.254.10/~roger/bal l99.html) Roger W. Broseus Registrar, Washington Spring Ball Ido-AT- exist.com H: 301-365-0611 W: 301-496-5774 --Boundary_(ID_/M+m4wNtcqn8HynUPGo5VQ) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Washington Spring Ball

Saturday, May 15
Whitby Gym, National Cathedral School

Go to the link listed below for:

Program
Registration Form
Links to CALLS for each dance
Directions to Practice Session as well as to the Ball

http://just.net/~roger/ball99.html

If web browsing is not available, contact me (the registrar) for info, registration forms, etc. via Email.

(In case of trouble linking to the site, try using "209.183.254.10" in place of "just.net" . . . e.g., http://209.183.254.10/~roger/ball99.html)

Roger W. Broseus
Registrar, Washington Spring Ball
Ido-AT- exist.com
H: 301-365-0611 W: 301-496-5774 --Boundary_(ID_/M+m4wNtcqn8HynUPGo5VQ)-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:38:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:37:10 -0400 From: "Linda M. Nelson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NEFFA report To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: >Also must mention the WONDERFUL performance by the Boston CDS group >on Sunday in the Main Hall. Thanks! The dancing felt particularly fun this year, which I think gave it an extra measure of enthusiasm. And fun keeps us coming back for more... Cheers - Linda __________________________________________________ "Oh, yes. It's vital to remember who you really are. It's very important. It isn't a good idea to rely on other people or things to do it for you, you see. They always get it wrong." (Terry Pratchett - from "Sourcery") __________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:45:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:45:00 +0100 From: Hugh Stewart Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3725871C.433A5635-AT- ugsolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary K. Friday wrote: > > Oh, dear! I assumed this was pollution from the Petronella clap! It > recently appeared in my area -- to my great sorrow.... > Mary Kay Friday > Washington, D.C. > Well, these things come and go. The university club here has a crib ( http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/round/dances/p-index.htm ) which I was involved in pounding into the desk-top publishing world ten years ago. We only made a few changes, but one of them was to take out the phrase "(no kicking)" in Oranges and Lemons since I had never even thought of the idea until I read it in there (for those who want to risk the wrath of Palmer, the kicking you don't do is in the grand chain bit as you wave a hand in the air). ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 07:25:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:24:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: repetition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Comrades, I note with interest/ alarm/ [your choice here] that the list has circled back to the topics I remember from when I signed on, sometime last year: 1/ clapping in Petronella, and, 2/ turning in Dublin Bay. It's deja vu all over again, to paraphrase the Mircea Eliade of Greater New Jersey. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:51:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:34:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: repetition, again To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990427153438.5595.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Actually Steve, if you paid closer attention, you would have noticed that several of recent posts have, in fact, been concerned with: 1. turning in Petronella, and, 2. clapping in Dublin Bay. There is such a thing as progress. Barbara Ruth ---Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > Comrades, > > I note with interest/ alarm/ [your choice here] that the list has circled > back to the topics I remember from when I signed on, sometime last year: > > 1/ clapping in Petronella, and, > 2/ turning in Dublin Bay. > > It's deja vu all over again, to paraphrase the Mircea Eliade of Greater > New Jersey. > > Steve Corrsin > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:00:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:00:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: repetition, again To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Barbara Ruth wrote: > Actually Steve, if you paid closer attention, you would have noticed > that several of recent posts have, in fact, been concerned with: > > 1. turning in Petronella, and, > 2. clapping in Dublin Bay. > > There is such a thing as progress. Hmmm... perhaps that's how progressive dances came about... maybe they were doing "Drive the Cold Winter Away" but it wasn't working (i.e. it was still there when they stopped), so someone figured if they could do it long enough, it would work . . . but then they began to get bored with that, so they started adding some variations by moving down the line... hmmm... Eric Arnold (in his "Wood Bee" persona...) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:22:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:18:30 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <7cfeaf47.24573d56-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Emma Rushton wrote: >>I'm not trying to single anyone out, but... Let's face it, most >>people can't clap in time to the music. And they don't know it. >>Further, people who think they can clap in time to the music, >>because they are musicians... Well, usually they can't *clap* in >>time to the music either, even if they can play their instrument >>in time. > >Now, why on earth would that be? I'm not saying it isn't so, but >it seems very odd to me. and, in my mind, partially answered her own question with: >Speaking as a musician, I want to point out that there is no >similarity between late/scattered/distance-delayed clapping, and >syncopation, which emphasises the off-beat. In, for example, The >Bishop (A music) and Shrewsbury Lasses (B music) syncopation >gives a strong feeling of pulse, and adds energy to the music. I (also speaking as a musician) think that one of the primary reasons that clapping undermines the drive of country dance music is that it attempts to be *on* the beat, whereas the natural pulse of the music is off the beat, or on the "back beat." Emphasis on the back beat helps lift dancers feet off the ground, while a strong downbeat puts the emphasis at the moment the foot is touching the floor. If everybody's clapping on downbeats, it works at cross-purposes with everything both the band and the dancers are trying to do. I'm all for compliments and displays of appreciation for the band, but not while I'm working, please. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:55:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:33:00 -0500 From: Anne Marie Edden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: repetition To: uunet!columbia.edu!sdc16-AT- uunet.uu.net, uunet!SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU!ECD-AT- uunet.uu.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As Steve Corrsin noted, we are repeating ourselves. One thing I like about Steve is his ability to prod us out of lurking and into responding emotionally to some prickly post. So here I go: But Steve, isn't that what ECD is all about? We repeat the same movements over and over, yet it is never the same. The music is different, the partner is different, the neighbors are different. Is the first time through the dance the same as the last one? Are doing it over because it is the same or because it is different? Or possibly because we learned something the last time around and we want to put it into practice this time? Not only do we do dances that repeat but we do the dances themselves over and over again every year for hundreds of years. Should we not dance Dublin Bay again because we danced it last year? We have already danced it numerous times this year. Why aren't we tired of it? Is talking, over and over, about moments in a dance only a matter of life imitating art? While I am out of lurking mode let me add that, as I recall, this discussion a year or so ago came from responses to a a request from a new list member that was something like "Stop bringing me down with all the discussion of what others do that annoys you on the dance floor and tell me about moments that you love; a moment that not every one participates in, or is not part of the usual way the dance is taught". (The original was more tactful) Since we have returned to this thread let me say that my secret moment is in the Bishop. As the second woman you must get out of the 1st woman's way by moving up into her place. I have found this to be an unparalleled opportunity for the second woman to flirt with all three men in the set. By moving in a wide arc you can parade past each of the men and look him straight in the eye (or wherever) and usually get their full attention. All while the first woman has her back to you and the rest of the set. It's more of a thrill than turning two or three times in Dublin Bay and fits the music perfectly. It is a role that is available to the second man as well, and adds sparkle to the whole trip up the line. Annie Edden Annie Edden ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:21:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:20:04 -0400 (EDT) From: BSDieter-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: The Bishop To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Annie Eden: What a lovely suggestion re the turn for the second lady in the Bishop. Thanks so much. I think I'd like to try that,. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:56:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:55:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special moments in "The Bishop" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Anne Marie Edden wrote: > Since we have returned to this thread let me say that my secret moment is > in the Bishop. As the second woman you must get out of the 1st woman's way > by moving up into her place. I have found this to be an unparalleled > opportunity for the second woman to flirt with all three men in the set. By > moving in a wide arc you can parade past each of the men and look him > straight in the eye (or wherever) and usually get their full attention. All > while the first woman has her back to you and the rest of the set. It's > more of a thrill than turning two or three times in Dublin Bay and fits the > music perfectly. It is a role that is available to the second man as well, > and adds sparkle to the whole trip up the line. I have another special moment in the Bishop, too, but it depends on the cooperation of my partner -- as 2's or 3's when you are gating the 1's through the top of the set, when you are between 1/2 and 3/4 of the way around, you are approaching your partner but facing away. A hand slightly extended then will find another hand slightly extended (man's right, woman's left) and joining them makes a delightful introduction to the next figure. When that happens spontaneously and prior to eye contact, it is one of the neatest demonstrations of being on the same wavelength as your partner (which always gives me a real high!), and it makes for a very tidy formation of the circle -- no lurching on the woman's part to grab her partner's rapidly accelerating hand as he is swept off with the other men as they start around the circle (with the bottom man lurching to grab his partner's hand, if he didn't think to take it at the end of the gypsy...). The hands can be offered very discretely at the top, and if they are not picked up, hardly anyone will notice, so it doesn't disturb the way prematurely-extended hands do in other figures where it becomes a visual cue. You and your partner are so close together at this point, that it is easy to link up this way, yet because you are not facing until you are separating again, few realize this and take advantage of it. Eric Arnold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:22:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:29:52 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special moments in Astoria Lass To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >" tell me about moments that you love" (Anne Marie Edden) When doing Astoria Lass during the performance at NEFFA this Saturday, a very nice effect occurred which I hadn't seen before. Remember how this improper dance goes? During the first B, men dance around their partners making a relatively tight loop. After 1 loop, men continue on, widening their loop so that the two men in the set pass right shoulder ending above (or below) partner for a two hand turn. Here's the effect: Looking up the middle from a moving man's point of view it looked like I was looking into an image created by putting two mirrors face to face. Moving together, dressed alike, we all looked like variations on the same theme, so there was an underlying unity in our variety. For me, this is a real metaphysical pleasure. The design of the dance heightens this effect, because of the extra symmetry created by the men being crossed over. The men being crossed over also creates a nice balance between filled and empty spaces during this figure. The theme that we are variations on, of course, is the lover pursueing his love. During our usual weekly dance, I don't think we are moving together well enough for this effect to come out. I'd be interested in hearing about other list member's experiences of dances that showed new sides during a performance. best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:04:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Petronella clap and looking back at balls To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990427204746.16399.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well this is another perspective on the Petronella clap, one that occured to me while dancing one of the recent variations at NEFFA this past weekend (I don't remember specifically which one). On the whole, I tend not to clap, only because I have trouble clapping on the beat and know it. I'm not especially fond of dances where clapping is required, such as "Juice of Barley." But dancing the Petronella figure in the NEFFA main hall with among that huge crowd of people, it came to me that the clapping, rather than being a selfishly individualistic act that spoils the flow of the dance for others, is probably felt by most people as a way of joining together with everyone else in the dance. That rhythmic little clap is something that can be shared with all the others in the room at the same time, extending outside the particular foursome that a dancer is with in that moment. I think it is an act that has spontaneously developed in this dance because people appreciate the sense of communality it brings. And while I have the floor, a couple of random comments arising from recent balls I've been fortunate enough to attend. From the New York Ball - I don't personally believe in heaven and hell, but _if_ I did, I would say that Gary Roodman has to have shaved several millenia off time in purgatory just for writing "A New Beginning." And from the Westchester Ball - there has been no doubt in my mind for a long time that Fried Herman is a genuis, and that we ought to have a category like that of Japan's "Living Treasures" in which she belongs (given the reach of ECD, we need an International Living Treasures category). But _if_ I'd had any doubts, "The Maeve Sweetly Sings" (I hope that I got the title right - I am away from my ball program), would have put demolished them. That dance is a level of magnitude beyond anything else around. It's a paradigm shift, the design of a genuis, and seeing it and dancing it, brand new, at Westchester felt like reading Darwin when he was just publishing _Origin of the Species_ or watching a play by Shakespeare when he was new. I hope everyone on this list has an opportunity to experience it. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:14:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:14:15 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: RE: repetition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <372628a7.6814.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I have used this time as the second man in the Bishop to flirt witht he second woman and have gotten some very surprised looks on occasion. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon >Annie Edden wrote: > >Since we have returned to this thread let me say that my secret moment is >in the Bishop. As the second woman you must get out of the 1st woman's way >by moving up into her place. I have found this to be an unparalleled >opportunity for the second woman to flirt with all three men in the set. By >moving in a wide arc you can parade past each of the men and look him >straight in the eye (or wherever) and usually get their full attention. All >while the first woman has her back to you and the rest of the set. It's >more of a thrill than turning two or three times in Dublin Bay and fits the >music perfectly. It is a role that is available to the second man as well, >and adds sparkle to the whole trip up the line. > >Annie Edden > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:34:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:34:34 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: Re: clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <37262d6a.22d.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Greetings all, >David Barnert wrote: > >I (also speaking as a musician) think that one of the primary >reasons that clapping undermines the drive of country dance music >is that it attempts to be *on* the beat, whereas the natural pulse >of the music is off the beat, or on the "back beat." Emphasis on >the back beat helps lift dancers feet off the ground, while a >strong downbeat puts the emphasis at the moment the foot is >touching the floor. If everybody's clapping on downbeats, it works >at cross-purposes with everything both the band and the dancers >are trying to do. > This reminded me of Marshall Barron teaching the dance band class at Pinewoods yearrs ago. She talked about syruppey music versus light, lilting music with a lift. Then she talked particularly about playing waltzes. The tendency in playing waltzes is to have a strong downbeat, but Marshall pointed out that putting the emphasis on the LAST beat of the measure lifts the dancers and carries them into the next phrase of the music. Putting it on the first beat drops the dancers. I have a recording of a Strauss waltz that has such a heavy downbeat that it's worse than a German Oom-pah band. Andy Peterson Portland, Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:58:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 18:57:36 -0400 From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clap; NEFFA To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Barbara Ruth wrote: > Well this is another perspective on the Petronella clap, one that > occured to me while dancing one of the recent variations at NEFFA > this past weekend (I don't remember specifically which one). On the > whole, I tend not to clap, only because I have trouble clapping on > the beat and know it. I'm not especially fond of dances where > clapping is required, such as "Juice of Barley." But dancing the > Petronella figure in the NEFFA main hall with among that huge crowd > of people, it came to me that the clapping, rather than being a > selfishly individualistic act that spoils the flow of the dance for > others, is probably felt by most people as a way of joining together > with everyone else in the dance. That rhythmic little clap is > something that can be shared with all the others in the room at the > same time, extending outside the particular foursome that a dancer > is with in that moment. I think it is an act that has spontaneously > developed in this dance because people appreciate the sense of > communality it brings. i guess we were dancing in different sessions. in the lower hall, with raise the roof playing, jim kitch called a contra dance containing two petronella turns after which people started clapping during the walkthrough. (i don't think jim even used the word "petronella".) interestingly, jim said during the walkthrough that he didn't care if we clapped on the first one, but advised against clapping on the second because we needed to be taking hands in a circle at that point (if i'm remembering the sequence correctly). most dancers in the hall ignored his advice and clapped after both turns. the claps - which were *not* executed by everyone at the same time, but scattered across several fractions of the beat, and didn't sound particularly rhythmic - felt to me like a selfish expression rather than a communal one. not to mention an expression of disrespect for the caller and/or choreographer. (yup, i think i'm definitely turning prematurely into a curmudgeon...) i hasten to add that i had a lot of fun at NEFFA this year, and heartily agree with those who have praised the ecd demo by the boston center dancers. (dr. corrsin, is that on-topic enough for you?) susie lorand princeton, nj, usa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:03:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:08:42 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Mavis Sweetly Sings... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990428000533.00aec8e0-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ...can be found in Fried's latest collection, Fringe Benefits. Sharon Green (occasional editor and keeper of the cumulative index) At 01:47 PM 4/27/99 -0700, Barbara Ruth wrote: >And from the Westchester Ball - there has been no doubt in my mind >for a long time that Fried Herman is a genuis, and that we ought to >have a category like that of Japan's "Living Treasures" in which she >belongs (given the reach of ECD, we need an International Living >Treasures category). But _if_ I'd had any doubts, "The Maeve >Sweetly Sings" (I hope that I got the title right - I am away from >my ball program), would have put demolished them. That dance is a >level of magnitude beyond anything else around. It's a paradigm >shift, the design of a genuis, and seeing it and dancing it, brand >new, at Westchester felt like reading Darwin when he was just >publishing _Origin of the Species_ or watching a play by Shakespeare >when he was new. I hope everyone on this list has an opportunity to >experience it. > >Barbara Ruth >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:07:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 02:06:10 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Marshall's band class To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: adpete-AT- jps.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <6b7ccb02.2457ff52-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Andy Peterson wrote: >David Barnert wrote: > >>I (also speaking as a musician) think... > >This reminded me of Marshall Barron teaching the dance band >class at Pinewoods yearrs ago. She talked about syruppey music >versus light, lilting music with a lift. Then she talked >particularly about playing waltzes. The tendency in playing >waltzes is to have a strong downbeat, but Marshall pointed out >that putting the emphasis on the LAST beat of the measure lifts >the dancers and carries them into the next phrase of the music. >Putting it on the first beat drops the dancers. I have a >recording of a Strauss waltz that has such a heavy downbeat that >it's worse than a German Oom-pah band. I learned a great deal from Marshall at the very classes you mention, some 15 years ago. Not just phrasing (importance of off-beats and articulation), but also how to prepare to play an unfamiliar tune you've just been handed by a caller without making any noise while the caller is teaching the dance. This is stuff you don't often get taught in band classes, so I'll summarize her suggestions here. Note the key and time signatures, check out the "route" (repeats, how many times through, etc.), scan the dots for passages that look tricky and finger them silently. Make sure there are no rhythmic surprises or phrases that are other than eight bars long, and finally, if there's time, finger the whole tune silently, imagining how it sounds. My addition to these comments would be to pay some attention to the dance calls, so you know what to expect the dancers to be doing at the beginning of each 8-bar phrase. That way, if you lose count of repeats, you can take your cue from the dancers as to whether to play another A section or move on to the B's ("The dancers will tell you what to do." ;-) ) I haven't seen Marshall in a long time, but I'm often reminded of those days when I hear a Playford band playing harmony lines that I recognize from her books. Sometimes I think I'm improvising a line only to realize later that it comes from her material. This summer, I'm going to Buffalo Gap to take Laurie Andres' ECD Musicians workshop. ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:15:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:14:46 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Marshall's band class To: davbarnert-AT- aol.com CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, adpete-AT- jps.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 2:06 AM -0400 4/28/99, DavBarnert-AT- aol.com wrote: >This summer, I'm going to Buffalo Gap to take Laurie Andres' ECD >Musicians workshop. Great; see you there! Michael ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 05:37:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:37:30 -0400 From: "Michael L. Siemon" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Bloody email programs #$-AT- %^! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: davbarnert-AT- aol.com, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, adpete-AT- jps.net Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT After I carefully addressed my reply to Dave, eudora managed to sneak in the ECD-list as a CC line! I blame it all on Bill Gates. Apologies for bludgeoning the group with personal email. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 07:57:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) From: DavBarnert-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: repetition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, aedden-AT- gruzensamton.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Annie Edden wrote: >Since we have returned to this thread let me say that my secret >moment is in the Bishop. As the second woman you must get out of >the 1st woman's way by moving up into her place. I have found >this to be an unparalleled opportunity for the second woman to >flirt with all three men in the set. Oh, so *that's* what was going on... and >Annie Edden >Annie Edden Now, Annie, aren't we being just a little bit unnecessarily repetitive? ______ /\/\/\/\ <______> | | | | | David Barnert <______> | | | | | <______> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <______> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 08:41:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 10:40:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dances of the millenium To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199904281540.KAA07614-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm thinking of organizing an event next year (2000) with the theme "Dances of the Millenium" which will consist of leading (and in some cases possibly demonstrating) some of the more influential dances of the past 1000 years. I have the start of a list of dances to consider, but I thought I would send out an inquiry and get the benefit of the collective knowledge of dancers from all over the world. Please respond (by followup article or email) with your thoughts on which dances should be included in an event of this sort. If you have references for dance instructions and music that would be helpful as well. Thanks. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:15:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 11:16:40 -0700 From: paul/victoria bestock Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dances of the millenium To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19990428111640.007a7100-AT- oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jonathan raised the question of dances of the millenium, and its an interesting question. Here are some ideas off the top of my head (after 34 years as a professional folk dance teacher, with a background in many different ethnic areas). In my opinion the most influential dances of the millenium are Tsaikonikos and any variation you choose of Hora. Tsaikonikos is said to be the dance that Theseus and companions did on Naxos, after escaping from the Cretan labyrinth, making it about 3500 years old. It moves in a spiral (into the labyrinth and safely out again) and is possibly the ancestor of all spiraling dances, all over Europe, of which there are hundreds still extant. The people of Tsaikoniki say that this is Theseus' dance, and anthropologists laughed at them for a long time because Tsaikoniki was settled 300 years ago by people from Delos, not Crete. However after the fall of the Minoan kingdom, Cretans fled--guess where? To Delos! So its just possible..... My other choice was the dominant dance form of Europe, the Mediterranean, North Africa, the Middle East, the Balkans and the British Isles until couple dancing evolved in the Middle Ages. Most places still dance versions of this line or circle dance side by side with the more recently evolved couple dances. The dance is three measures long-- one measure to progress to the right, one measure to step on the right foot with accent or variation (stamp, hop, jiggle) and a matching step (with stamp, hop or jiggle ) on the left foot. Older versions progress to the left. Here are just a few of the thousands of dances that follow this pattern, which is thought to have originated in Greece and to have been spread either by Alexander the Great, or by the Crusades. Hora, Hassapiko,(Greece) Branle,(England) Kolo,(Serbia) Kopanitsa, Devetorka, Eleno Mome, Daichovo, Lesnoto,(Bulgaria) Halay,(Turkey) Langdans,(Sweden) Ad Dro and other Breton dances, (France) the song-dances of the Faroe Islands,(Denmark) Lindjo, Lichko Kolo, Glamoch (Dalmatia ). There are versions in the middle east, Russia, the Ukraine, and North Africa. When I first started folk dancing, I thought that this was an instinctive form of dance-- that if you put people from anywhere in the world in a room and said "dance together" they would come up with some version of this dance. Then I learned that there aren't any versions in Korea, China or Japan, or among Native Americans. So its a dance of European origin, spread throughout large areas of the world long ago and evolving with different variations, in different meters, over the Millenium. A measure on the right foot, a measure on the left foot, a measure to progress around the circle. Start over. Hypnotic. Community bonding. IN my opinion, the most influential dance of the millenium. Vicky Bestock it is TAt 10:40 AM 4/28/99 -0500, you wrote: > I'm thinking of organizing an event next year (2000) with the theme >"Dances of the Millenium" which will consist of leading (and in some cases >possibly demonstrating) some of the more influential dances of the past >1000 years. I have the start of a list of dances to consider, but I thought >I would send out an inquiry and get the benefit of the collective knowledge >of dancers from all over the world. Please respond (by followup article or >email) with your thoughts on which dances should be included in an event of >this sort. If you have references for dance instructions and music that >would be helpful as well. > > Thanks. > >Jonathan > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | >| j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | >| Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | >| Beckman Institute | | >| 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | >| Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | >| Work: 217/244-1923 | | >| Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Home page URL: http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-sivier | >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 12:43:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 15:40:03 -0400 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in England To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904281542_MC2-73A5-F89A-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Martin E. Mulligan wrote: >> One of our >> dancers will be in the Gloucestershire area of England from 28th >> April-2nd May and again from 15th-18th May. Are there any English >> Country Dances in that area during those times? >> Also, are there any music stores that would carry ECD music >> in the Gloucester/Cheltenham area? Try emailing Cotswold Music Society on cotswoldmusic-AT- ndirect.co.uk - they may know about dances, and they also sell ECD books, music, CDs, etc. They're not a music store, but they could probably send things by mail order or even through personal contact. Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:40:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 18:39:55 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01JAKRJ546KY9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECDers -- The CDSS website doesn't seem to give full contents listing for the danceable tapes it has for sale. I just ordered a pile of them, because the live music for a workshop I'm about to do in Arcata (yes, again) didn't come through, and I'd like to plan a program before the tapes actually arrive. If you have the playlists for any of the following, or are willing to type 'em in from the tape or LP, please post, and maybe I can put the results up on the ECD website. (Actually, if I'm going to do that I'd be willing to take playlists for tapes I don't have, to.) Comments welcome as well: ARTIST TITLE HOLD THE MUSTARD ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FAVORITES CLAREMONT COUNTRY DANCE BAND JUICE OF BARLEY " POPULAR ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCES OF THE SEVENTEENTH AND EIGHTEENTH CENTURIES BARRON/LEBER/WARD STEP STATELY BOXWOOD CONSORT ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE MUSIC BARRON/MERRILL BY POPULAR DEMAND ORANGE AND BLUE THE ENGLISH DANCING MASTER, VOL I. Thanks! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:44:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:49:04 -0400 From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4.1.19990428224625.00ad6150-AT- popserver.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan: For contents listings of the 4 CDSS cassettes, see the Balance & Sing inserts in the Nov./Dec. 1997 and March/April 1999 issues of the CDSS News. Hugs, Sharon (married to a librarian) At 06:39 PM 4/28/99 -0800, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >ECDers -- > >The CDSS website doesn't seem to give full contents listing for the danceable >tapes it has for sale. I just ordered a pile of them, because the live music >for a workshop I'm about to do in Arcata (yes, again) didn't come through, and >I'd like to plan a program before the tapes actually arrive. > >If you have the playlists for any of the following, or are willing to type 'em >in from the tape or LP, please post, and maybe I can put the results up on the >ECD website. (Actually, if I'm going to do that I'd be willing to take >playlists for tapes I don't have, to.) Comments welcome as well: > >ARTIST TITLE > >HOLD THE MUSTARD ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FAVORITES > >CLAREMONT COUNTRY DANCE BAND JUICE OF BARLEY > > " POPULAR ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCES OF THE > SEVENTEENTH AND EIGHTEENTH CENTURIES > >BARRON/LEBER/WARD STEP STATELY > >BOXWOOD CONSORT ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE MUSIC > >BARRON/MERRILL BY POPULAR DEMAND > >ORANGE AND BLUE THE ENGLISH DANCING MASTER, VOL I. > > >Thanks! > >-- Alan > > >=========================================================================== ==== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 >=========================================================================== ==== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 19:58:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:00:52 +0600 From: Christine Robb Subject: Re: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199904290258.WAA19747-AT- smtp.interlog.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Well, I'll do one and hopefully save someone else a little typing: > HOLD THE MUSTARD ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FAVORITES Jack's Health (Bolt the Door/Follow Me Up To Carlow) - 5:28 St. Martin's Lane - 5:17 Sion House - 5:25 Hambleton's Round O - 3:57 From Aberdeen - 5:21 K&E - 4:21 Wooing Mairi (Wooing Mairi/Mairi's Wedding) - 5:24 Round About Our Coal Fire - 4:33 Seige of Limerick - 6:00 Round Pond - 2:22 Walpole Cottage - 4:38 Duke of Kent's Waltz - 4:39 Christine cedar-AT- interlog.com For information on English Country and vintage dance in Toronto: http://www.interlog.com/~cedar ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:31:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: ArcadiaCB-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Playlist To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <389402aa.24592bb0-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi Alan, I sympathize with your situation--my interest is primarily the historical dances---I enjoy them all--just want the music for the earlier ones for teaching and performances. So I'll give you the lists for 4 of them--maybe someone else will post the others so I can order some more as well. Juice of Barley Juice of Barley Gathering Peascods Indian Queen Bonnets So Blue The Fine Companion Knole Park Duke of Kent's Waltz Loxley Figure Eight Childgrove Zephyrs and Flora Upon a Summers's Day Speed the Plough Christchurch Bells Popular Enlgish Country Dances of the 17th and 18th Centuries Mr. Issacs Maggot Hit and Miss Picking Up Sticks Scotch Cap Mr. Beveridge's Maggot Epping Forest Mad Robin Prince William Dublin Bay The Female Sayler Miss Sayer's Allemande Jack's Health Queen's jig Step Stately Step Statley Love's Triumph Miss Spark's maggot The Boatman Joy After Sorrow The Splendid Shilling The Beggar Boy The Maid in the Moon Come let's Be Merry I Come let's Be Merry II ("Hackney's Minuet") Saint Martin's Green Sleeves and Yellow Lace The Corporation Shepherd's Holiday St. Margaret's Hill Heartsease Chelmsford Assembly By Popular Demand Orlean Baffled Trip to Tunbridge Shrewsbury Lasses Geud Man of Ballangigh Black Nag Rufty Tufty Waterfall Waltz Sellenger's Round Oranges and Lemons Draper's Maggot Apley House Dressed Ship Hornpipes (all purpose hornpipes) Hope that helps so you can start to get your program together. Charlene Bullard (been lurking down here in the Richmond, VA area for awhile--finally time to put in my $.02!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:44:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 22:42:13 -0500 From: "Lawrence N. Stout" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3727D515.D6C7628B-AT- sun.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JAKRJ546KY9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> What I have handy is the records (33rpm vinyl), but I think that the tapes are the same: > ARTIST TITLE > > CLAREMONT COUNTRY DANCE BAND JUICE OF BARLEY > Juice of barley 2:51 Gathering Peascods 2:56 Indian Queen 4:00 Bonnets so Blue 3:04 The Fine Companion 1:30 Knole Park 4:02 The Duke of Kent's Waltz 4:40 Loxley Figure Eight 1:52 Childgrove 4:05 Zephyrs and Flora 4:01 Upon a Summer's Day 2:17 Speed the Plough 6:25 Christchurch Bells 3:00 > " POPULAR ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCES OF THE > SEVENTEENTH AND EIGHTEENTH CENTURIES Mr. Isasc's Maggot 3:45 Hit and Miss 1:24 Picking Up Sticks 2:20 Scotch Cap 1:25 Mr. Beveridge's Maggot 5:15 Epping Forest 1:55 Mad Robin 3:55 Prince William 3:20 Dublin Bay 2:55 The Female Sayler 3:50 Miss sayer's Allemand 3:25 Jack's Health 3:45 Queen's Jig 3:55 > BARRON/MERRILL BY POPULAR DEMAND Orleans Baffled Trip to Tunbridge Shrewsbury Lasses Geud Man of Ballangigh Black Nag Rufty Tufty Waterfall Walz Sellenger's round Oranges and Lemons Draper's Maggot Apley House Dressed Ship Hornpipes Lawrence Neff Stout Professor of Mathematics Illinois Wesleyan University http://www.iwu.edu/~lstout "Fiddling is a viol habit." Anon? "Dancing is necessary for a well ordered society." Thoinot Arbeau ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:31:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: Philippe.Callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:29:32 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <37280A5C.B6490A8A-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <01JAKRJ546KY9ED9BN-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> You may want to check out the sales section of the AADS website. Of course it isn't perfect, but for some recordings and books it gives titles of dances. So this source may be of extra help. http://gallery.uunet.be/aads/ We are planning on including all titles, but we wil need time and lots of help to bring all the data. Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 07:23:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:23:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: millenial dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Of course, we should all take with a few pounds of salt any statement to the effect that, "our ancestors have done this dance for a thousand/ 2,000/ 3,000" etc years. Usually fantasy, when it's possible to pin something down at all; or ethnocentric fantasy, with the implication that a peculiar cultural form was invented by Us People, and not Those Other Guys who do the same thing under a slightly different name. (For something perhaps comparable see, for example, the sudden development of 3 new languages -- Serbian, Croatian, and Bosnian, where formerly 1 language did the trick. As someone said some time ago, "a language is a dialect with a navy." Or in the late 20th c., a dialect with heavily armed paramilitary thugs.) So much for caveats. I vote -- seriously this time -- for linked sword dances, specifically forms documented and illustrated in Europe for about half a millenium. See my book, available from Amazon, CDSS, or the Folklore Society, or a few copies available direct from me and since we're about to move I'd like to unload them. "What?" you sneer. "A meager half o' millenium? Peanuts!" Maybe peanuts, but there are precious few dance forms which are more firmly documented for such a stretch of time. Some are, yes indeed, but not a lot.I mean firmly documented, mind; not just "why, of course we've done this since our ancestors appeared here a quazillion years ago." Steve Corrsin, in a cranky historian's mode. Yes, I know it's off topic, but I didn't start the thread. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:12:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:10:42 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Look of the Dance To: ECD_LIST Message-ID: <199904291210_MC2-73EC-9363-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Several recent posts about the beauty of the patterns created by the "dance around" in Astoria Lass, about "The Mavis Sweetly Sings," and others are bringing new attention to an important quality of our beloved ECD that has been ignored or minimzed of late: the look of the dance to an observer. Seems hardly necessary to state that one aspect of dance is how it looks (else why would we go to ballet and other dance performances, or talk about a dancer's grace or line). Country dancing shared that "performing" role in earlier times; many folks came simply to observe the dance and enjoy the beauty of the patterns and music as non-participants. The audience included those too "old" to dance (Jane Austen so described herself at the age of 34!), as well as visiting and host gentry. The all-important "presence" in Playford's and Sharp's notations is precisely these notable observers. One of the reasons I became a dance caller (aside from unfettered egomania) was to have the pleasure of watching the dancing. Indeed I program an evening of dance mindful of the musical and visual pleasures it will bring me as I stand at the front of the hall. If you haven't taken an opportunity to stand on a stage, balcony, or gallery overlooking a room full of country dancers, do so! You'll see what I mean. Increased awareness of this aspect of our dancing brings two benefits I can think of. First, by being conscious of this integral, important, and historically informed component of our chosen genre, we can become better dancers, which will bring greater enjoyment to us as participants as well as to the observer. There are discrete techniques one can learn to do this and we should be teaching them more. It isn't magic, though it is magical :-) .. Secondly, by making our dancing more beautiful and enjoyable to watch, we create an opportunity for more people to enjoy it. As our dance community ages (and that includes you and me), and folks find that they are no longer able to dance all, most, or even any dances of an evening, why not offer them special seating on the stage (as our "presence") or in a balcony. This had been an annual tradition at Berea's Christmas Country Dance School, where the band/caller shared the stage with as many as a dozen elderly former dancers, VIP's, and friends (a formidable group, let me tell you. As you stepped up to the microphone you passed in front of generations of history). It's also an avenue to introduce interested non-dancers to our activity-- they may not feel comfortable as participants right off, or as "wallflowers" at the sidelines, but as members of a clearly honored group of observers?? Having said all that, let me add that having a group of even first-rate dancers run through a few country dances does not constitute a "performance" or "demonstration." To the casual observer (not the kind described above), there are only 2 English country dances-- the one done in those long lines and the other one. A LOT more goes into making a show that can hold the interest of a general audience-- just ask someone like Ron Smedley in England, or Helen Davenport of CT's Reel Nutmeg. Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Caller, Musician and future presence ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:39:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:39:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Susan R. Lorand" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Christine Robb wrote: > Well, I'll do one and hopefully save someone else a little typing: > > > HOLD THE MUSTARD ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FAVORITES > > Seige of Limerick - 6:00 Make that Siege of Limerick. (The typo is on the original, not Christine's fault.) It's a wonderful CD and well worth owning. - Susie Lorand, Princeton, NJ a longtime fan of HTM... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 09:53:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:53:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Look of the Dance To: ECD_LIST Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Gene Murrow wrote: . . . The audience > included those too "old" to dance (Jane Austen so described herself at the > age of 34!) But if you measure age not in years from birth but in fraction of lifespan, perhaps that isn't as absurd as it seems to us -- was she not in her 41st year or thereabouts when she died? Eric Arnold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:38:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:36:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Look of the Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990429183613.6089.rocketmail-AT- web4.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ---Gene Murrow wrote: > As our dance > community ages (and that includes you and me) Gene, I thought that the aging process is stopped while doing English Country dancing, and sometimes even reversed. Hasn't anyone else noticed that Helen Davenport is getting younger-looking every year? Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:12:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:12:08 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Look of the Dance To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199904291712_MC2-73E8-136-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Message text written by Barbara Ruth: >I thought that the aging process is stopped while doing English Country dancing, and sometimes even reversed. Hasn't anyone else noticed that Helen Davenport is getting younger-looking every year? < Of course Barbara's right! All that skipping around in circles holding hands, going to summer camp in the woods, playing dress-up... It's only when you STOP dancing that you age. Then it's OK to sit on the stage and watch. Gene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:31:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 00:08 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Petronella clap and looking back at balls To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I would say her dance The Songs of the Harpist might top that but as I have not yet danced The Maeve Sweetly Sings the comparison is slightly difficult. Graham Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes. ----Original Message----- >From: Barbara Ruth >To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Subject: Petronella clap and looking back at balls >Reply-To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Date: 27 April 1999 21:47 > >Well this is another perspective on the Petronella clap, one that >occured to me while dancing one of the recent variations at NEFFA >this past weekend (I don't remember specifically which one). On the >whole, I tend not to clap, only because I have trouble clapping on >the beat and know it. I'm not especially fond of dances where >clapping is required, such as "Juice of Barley." But dancing the >Petronella figure in the NEFFA main hall with among that huge crowd >of people, it came to me that the clapping, rather than being a >selfishly individualistic act that spoils the flow of the dance for >others, is probably felt by most people as a way of joining together >with everyone else in the dance. That rhythmic little clap is >something that can be shared with all the others in the room at the >same time, extending outside the particular foursome that a dancer >is with in that moment. I think it is an act that has spontaneously >developed in this dance because people appreciate the sense of >communality it brings. > >And while I have the floor, a couple of random comments arising from >recent balls I've been fortunate enough to attend. From the New >York Ball - I don't personally believe in heaven and hell, but _if_ >I did, I would say that Gary Roodman has to have shaved several >millenia off time in purgatory just for writing "A New Beginning." >And from the Westchester Ball - there has been no doubt in my mind >for a long time that Fried Herman is a genuis, and that we ought to >have a category like that of Japan's "Living Treasures" in which she >belongs (given the reach of ECD, we need an International Living >Treasures category). But _if_ I'd had any doubts, "The Maeve >Sweetly Sings" (I hope that I got the title right - I am away from >my ball program), would have put demolished them. That dance is a >level of magnitude beyond anything else around. It's a paradigm >shift, the design of a genuis, and seeing it and dancing it, brand >new, at Westchester felt like reading Darwin when he was just >publishing _Origin of the Species_ or watching a play by Shakespeare >when he was new. I hope everyone on this list has an opportunity to >experience it. > >Barbara Ruth >_________________________________________________________ >DO YOU YAHOO!? >Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 14:44:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:43:21 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special Moments, Cont'd To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What about that velvety transition from the left hand star to the circle right (from A2 to B music) in Erna Lynn's hypnotic "Easter Morn"? When all four dancers get the mood & timing exactly right, without the slightest break or stiffness in their motion, their hands & arms sort of floating down from the star to the ring, there's this absolutely sublime moment at the start of the circle. One of the lovely things about the dance, I think, is how the constant fluidity of the figures echoes the sort of driving beat of the Scottish tune (at least it sounds Scottish.). (Oy! Trying to use words to describe the indescribable reminds me why we all love English Dance in the first place!) (Thanks, Annie, for introducing this topic.) Judy Grunberg (Do you think I should put in a few more parentheses?) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:05:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:53 +0100 From: graham-AT- gcknight.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For the Orange and Blue recording if you mean their first recording, usually referred to as PLA1, the contents are:- Gathering Peascods Hey Boys Up Go We My Lady Cullen Grimstock Mage on a Cree Adson's Saraband The Old Mole Twenty-ninth of May Jenny Pluck Pears Parson's Farewell Upon a Summer's Day Dargason Chestnut Amarillis Graham ----Original Message----- >From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing >To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Subject: Seeking contents listings for ECD recordings >Reply-To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Date: 29 April 1999 03:39 > >ECDers -- > >The CDSS website doesn't seem to give full contents listing for the danceable >tapes it has for sale. I just ordered a pile of them, because the live music >for a workshop I'm about to do in Arcata (yes, again) didn't come through, and >I'd like to plan a program before the tapes actually arrive. > >If you have the playlists for any of the following, or are willing to type 'em >in from the tape or LP, please post, and maybe I can put the results up on the >ECD website. (Actually, if I'm going to do that I'd be willing to take >playlists for tapes I don't have, to.) Comments welcome as well: > >ARTIST TITLE > >HOLD THE MUSTARD ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE FAVORITES > >CLAREMONT COUNTRY DANCE BAND JUICE OF BARLEY > > " POPULAR ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCES OF THE > SEVENTEENTH AND EIGHTEENTH CENTURIES > >BARRON/LEBER/WARD STEP STATELY > >BOXWOOD CONSORT ENGLISH COUNTRY DANCE MUSIC > >BARRON/MERRILL BY POPULAR DEMAND > >ORANGE AND BLUE THE ENGLISH DANCING MASTER, VOL I. > > >Thanks! > >-- Alan > > >=============================================================================== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 >=============================================================================== > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 18:19:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:06:48 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Look of the Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904291210_MC2-73EC-9363-AT- compuserve.com> At 12:10 PM -0400 4/29/99, Gene Murrow wrote: >To the casual observer (not the kind >described above), there are only 2 English country dances-- the one done in >those long lines and the other one. LOL, and that other one of course must be Gathering Peascods! A lot to chew on Gene - and much that I can agree with you here. Having done a bit of performing in my day (from my early years of doing ballet, on up) I know that there's a BIG difference between performing and social dancing. I think the common conflict for EC Dancers has been this distinction. We want to show others what we do for fun, (often in hopes of building attendance) but how to show it well, without making it look like we *do* it for the performance aspects. I think that is one of the things I enjoyed about the Boston Centre's NEFFA performance - it was done by experienced dancers who made it look rather effortless and who looked like they were genuinely enjoying the dance and YET it looked SO well done - the lines moved together, the turns happened at the same time, no "out there" styling that drew attention to anyone or any one thing. We really got to see that each couple danced with each other and with each couple they came to in line. I certainly wasn't watching the performance as a non-dancer but the woman next to me (wife of a craft vendor, there for her second NEFFA and her first attending events at NEFFA) commented throughout the performance "how beautiful" etc and at the end commented "they must rehearse a LOT." What made the ECD demo/performance beautiful to me no doubt overlapped with what made it wonderful to this less experienced eye, but isn't that great, that it appealed to both of us? When demo'ing/performing dance for non-dancers, what are our goals? If it's to attract folks to ECD, then don't we need to show the audience what it is that we enjoy about it - the simple yet engaging patterns, the interaction of people in the dance, the play between the dance and the music? If we want to show off our personal dancing skills, we can overload the viewers' eyes with the flashy things we can do, but would it really relate to the ECD that most people would find available in their local towns? Thanks Gene for giving us a great issue to mull. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:55:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:48:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: St. Louis Playford Ball To: English Dance Maillist Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The St. Louis English Country Dancers present their annual Playford Ball on Saturday, May 22nd from 7:30-11:00 p.m.. The Ball takes place at the Monday Club in the Old Webster neighborhood of Webster Groves, Missouri; the address is 37 S. Maple. Featured callers will include Peter Wollenberg and special guests; music will be provided by the Original Speckled Band. Period costume is encouraged but not required; all dances will be taught. For more information and directions, please call Elliott Ribner (314-771-2155), Joe Felsen (314-644-8817) or Rebecca Taylor (314-862-2634), or e-mail me at . Enjoy! Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 23:10:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 01:02:34 -0500 From: Charlene Charette Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: repetition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3729477A.B9FDE408-AT- flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > I note with interest/ alarm/ [your choice here] that the list has circled > back to the topics I remember from when I signed on, sometime last year: It's the nature of lists. New people are constantly signing on and what may be an old discussion to some is quite new to others. I've been on the historical costuming list long enough to have seen some topics go through dozens of repeats. List FAQs can sometimes help alleviate this somewhat. --Charlene -- The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights. -- J. Paul Getty ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:08:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:05:09 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special Moments, Cont'd To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904301107_MC2-7406-A6EE-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT here's a wonderful magic moment in "Zephyrs and Flora" for the second lady at the very end of each time through the dance: the second couple, starting on the 'wrong' side, casts up and does a half figure eight through the first couple to get to progressed places. If the second lady retards the last leg of that figure, she doesn't have to break her stride to enter into the first figure of the dance. It flows nicely! There's another potentially magic moment in the arch figure in Newcastle. Alas, everyone has to cooperate.... Instead of 1st man and 3rd woman and their opposites leading in (2nd round, B1) IMMEDIATELY out again, they wait for bars 3 + 4 until the others lead in BETWEEN THEM - and all end up in a momentary longways set of four that dissolves into a beautiful figure as the arches move out and the other dancers loop through them. It goes well with the circle-and-lines theme of the dance... _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 08:09:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 11:05:06 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Curses... To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199904301107_MC2-7406-A6ED-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT "Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes", even if meant tongue-in- cheek, needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAADLY! It's not the least bit funny - in either direction! _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick, feeling like a curmudgeon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:40:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:38:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: St. Louis Playford Ball -- addendum To: English Dance Maillist Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi folks: I forgot to mention: At the midbreak we have a snack potluck. If you're coming to the ball and can do so, please bring some sort of finger food to share. Out of town folks are, of course, exempt if it's not logistically possible. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:51:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 09:34:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Curses? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19990430163437.26658.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In defense of the sender, I both find it funny and don't understand why anyone would find it offensive. Maybe, Hanny, you could clarify what about the phrase bothers you so much. Barbara Ruth who would certainly spend more time dancing than working if given the choice. ---"Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> wrote: > > "Work is the curse of the Dancing Classes", even if meant tongue-in- cheek, > needs an attitude adjustment BAAAAADLY! It's not the least bit funny - in > either direction! > > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:20:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:28:37 -0400 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Special Moments, Cont'd To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >What about that velvety transition from the left hand star to the circle >right (from A2 to B music) in Erna Lynn's hypnotic "Easter Morn"? When all >four dancers get the mood & timing exactly right, without the slightest break >or stiffness in their motion, their hands & arms sort of floating down from >the star to the ring, there's this absolutely sublime moment at the start of >the circle. ... Judy Grunberg I'll second that, Judy! In the star, the dancers are relatively close together, then as we slide into the ring and move away from each other, there is a tremendous feeling of the dance opening up. This is one place where big round circles really increase the impact of the dance. A similar effect, for the dancing corners, happens in "Hudson Barn" . I'm thinking of the bit where the first corners are completing a rapid once and half two hand turn in crossed hands position, then fall back a step opening their arms wide to form the circle needed for the next figure. best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 18:53:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: garyir-AT- email.msn.com Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 17:52:06 -0800 From: gary irwin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <016e01be9375$381af4e0$51daffd0-AT- default> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT help ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:44:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 19:44:21 +0700 From: adpete-AT- jps.net Subject: small dances in the living room To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <372a6a85.612a.0-AT- jps.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > on Tue, 20 Apr 1999 "Lawrence N. Stout" wrote: > >Are there others who have the "small dances in the living room" >experience in their backgrounds? To what extent do the constraints of >space affect our choices of what dances to do? What kinds of dancing >overlap with ECD elsewhere? Are the English ceilidh, contra, >international, and ECD communities overlapping in most places? My sister, Lyrl Ahern, and I started dancing in Accokeek, Maryland in the home of Jack and Frances Wright. Jack had done international folk dance at MIT while a student there. Frances had been a teacher in a settlement school in Kentucky and had accompanied groups of students to the Spring Festival at Berea College. They wanted to dance and found that the nearest dancing was 45 miles the other side of Washington, DC. They had a large enough living room and began inviting the neighborhood into their home on Saturday nights. We have family friends who lived near the Wrights. One night when we were at our friends house for dinner we kids went to the Wrights to dance after dinner. After that, any time we were down there on Saturday night we went dancing We did dances to whatever recordings were available. They were mostly Playford, but there were also several CDM dances. We also did Danish dance (it was part of the Berea program), a few morris dances and a couple international dances. Frances played the piano for a few dances and I can remember a local group of chamber musicians playing for us a few times. I even pulled out the violin I hadn't touched in years and learned a few tunes. Once a year a dance was held outdoors at the amphitheater down the road. Jack and Frances made plans to take a group to the Spring Festival in April of 1969. I was one of the group who were to go, but the draft got in my way. By the time the draft reclassified me to 4-F for a medical reason, I had already been replaced, so I did not go to Berea that year. The last night before the group left for Berea, Lyrl and I accompanied them to The McLean School in Virginia for an evening of ECD. This is the story of that dance series as I remember it: Jack Langstaff had been a teacher at the school and had invited May Gadd to come down once a month and teach ECD to the children. She would stay and teach an adult group in the evening. I don't know how many years she did this, but the 1968-69 school year, Gay had not been well and Mary and John Owen from Baltimore had taken on the running of the dance. They had been in the Berea College Dancers. The night we went to The McLean School was the last time the dance was held there. The next fall it started up again in a church in the Baltimore suburbs. It was at that dance that I picked up a CDSS flyer about summer camp at Pinewoods. Lyrl and I both decided to go and have been hooked on ECD ever since. This summer will be 30 years since that first trip to Pinewoods. It was truly an experience that changed my life. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:08:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:06:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Chicoqueen-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: small dances in the living room To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <677bf22d.245bc99c-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The San Francisco Bay Area's Playford Ball features a pot luck brunch the following morning. Dave and Joyce Uggla are not only so generous as to open their home to hungry dancers, they generously remodeled their home a few years ago to create a fairly spacious hardwood dance floor that doubles as a living room and kitchen at other times. There is enough space for a longways set of several couples! I have attended two of these bunches and they were quite pleasant experiences, particularly as I currently live hours from any regular ECD series. This year, after we all sated ourselves, a pianist and fiddler played several pieces of music from the Barnes book, to which we danced merrily. I regret not being able to name which dances we did -- perhaps someone else can? Reine Wonite Chico, CA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:11:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:11:48 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Look of the Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <199904291210_MC2-73EC-9363-AT- compuserve.com> >I think the common conflict for EC Dancers has been this distinction. >We want to show others what we do for fun, (often in hopes of >building attendance) but how to show it well, without making it look >like we *do* it for the performance aspects. > >I think that is one of the things I enjoyed about the Boston Centre's >NEFFA performance - it was done by experienced dancers who made it >look rather effortless and who looked like they were genuinely >enjoying the dance and YET it looked SO well done - the lines moved >together, the turns happened at the same time, no "out there" styling >that drew attention to anyone or any one thing. We really got to see >that each couple danced with each other and with each couple they >came to in line. Again, you're so nice. But seriously, the fact of the matter is that each of us, individually over a not negligable period of time, has done the work necessary to be able to pull that off and have it look that way. We all know about that part, but it does need saying, because many dancers come to the weekly dance and never get to that point for one reason or another. And another perspective on the whole thing, something which I have to admit made me personally cringe - a friend of mine who is not a dancer watched our little dem and thought it looked nice enough, but her real comment was that she liked the costumes. I thought about this a lot and tried to figure out where it came from and somehow one place I thought it might have come from was that people expect costumes in a performance. Or maybe my friend was trying to same something nice to compensate for the fact that she wasn't thrilled by the dem itself, or maybe she said it because I've been trying to get her to come to the dance and she's very reluctant. But personally I think the costumes could change in a flash and no one would be sorry at all. ;-) As far as why we do it, perform it, show it that way, I think I can assert with certainty that we do that particular dem because it's ours. There is a proprietary thing about that dem - it belongs to the Boston Centre to show what we do as part of the community that NEFFA encompasses. It's not that _we_ are the English dance in New England, it's that the Boston Centre has a very long tradition of demonstrating, not performing, at NEFFA. So we do the dem. And we do it in hopes of attracting the interest of other dancers. Of course, there is pride in being invited, and the opportunity to participate evokes our very best effort and we are embarassed if we think we didn't do our best for the dem. But I think all of us bring delight, passion and joy to that dem as well, because we want others to see those feelings and understand that they are there in that kind of dancing. Possibly the extreme periodicity and simplicity of the costume is a deliberate attempt to make the dancing look accessible to the viewer as well. We'd have to see if Helene had an opinion on that matter, however. And perhaps the periodicity has long since lost its viability, too................ Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 20:23:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 23:25:48 -0400 From: "Emily L. Ferguson" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Special Moments, Cont'd To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My favorite magic moment is when the two ladies turn single in Up With Aily. Our dancing is so heterosexual that many miss the chance to have a special intimacy with their own gender. But those who figure it out absorb the idea into their style. I wonder whether the men ever get to experience that moment when their turn comes? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts elf-AT- cape.com Photographer, English Country Dance leader Small brave carnivores Kill pine cones and mosquitoes. Fear vacuum cleaner. from "Kitty Haiku"