Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 04:39:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 07:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: this and that To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IXPQ0KXFAA925NIE-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 One of the first folk music records I ever bought, back in the early 80's, was a Bill Spence record that included Margaret's Waltz in one of its medleys. (Could he have been the hammered-dulcimer-playing guest on Prairie Home Companion?) So the tune has been in the general folk repertoire for a long time by now. I don't remember whether Pat Shaw was credited on the album, but if he was, I didn't notice it. Robin Hayden ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 07:48:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:49:28 +0000 From: Rick Rhodes Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <35728737.5DE-AT- popeleo1.mv.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01IXPQ0KXFAA925NIE-AT- amherst.edu> (Robin, this is mostly a post to you. But since it may have some general interest, I'm posting it to the ECD list). Robin, I was at a dance you called earlier this year in East Alstead, NH, and I also saw you at a recent dance in Brattleboro, VT. On both occasions, I noticed that you danced with a slightly pitched-forward, on-the-balls-of-your-feet posture. I'm not concerned with historical accuracy, I just like the ECD style I saw you perform. The style seems extremely subtle, and extremely hard to emulate! Any pointers? By the way, you mentioned in East Alstead that you were on the staff of the Country Dance and Song Society, and I noticed that the society's headquarters is in Haydenville, MA. Is that a coincidence, or do you have ancestors who both founded the town and had roots in country dance? Rick Rhodes Concord, NH P.S. You might remember me. During one dance at East Alstead, my partner and I were consistently gumming up the set, by making the same mistake over and over. When the troublesome part of the dance came around again, you calmly leaned into the microphone, and, in a soft voice said, "Cast off, for God's sake!" :-) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:36:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:34:33 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806011134_MC2-3EC3-3AEE-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rick Rhodes wrote of Robin Hayden's dancing style: "I noticed that you danced with a slightly pitched-forward, on-the-balls-of-your-feet posture. I'm not concerned with historical accuracy, I just like the ECD style I saw you perform. The style seems extremely subtle, and extremely hard to emulate! Any pointers?" Saving Robin the possible discomfort of describing herself, let me say that, IMHO, Robin is one of our most beautiful dancers and one of the finest examples of the ECD style developed and taught by Cecil Sharp and his followers (including May Gadd and Lily Roberts Conant in this country= ). It's a graceful, light, and energetic form of movement that replaces th= e complex stepping originally part of the 17th/18th C.style. Most dancers now have lost (or never learned) the "Sharp style," and we certainly do n= ot attempt the historical stepping, with the result that for many ECD is reduced to mainly walking around in patterns to music (which can be fun, = to be sure). The change was due to many factors, including a focus on patte= rn that resulted from a new interest in historical reconstructions in the 70's, the ageing of many ECD-ers, the deaths of some key leaders (like Ga= y, and Genny Shimer), among others (I have a few million well chosen words o= n this subject). Many current leaders do make deliberate attempts to keep the Sharp style going, so it's there to be learned. Listen up... The "Margaret's Waltz" story I heard, from Pat Shaw himself if these memo= ry cells are working, involved a Canadian fiddler who approached Pat in Cana= da to listen to a lovely Canadian waltz which he was sure Pat would really enjoy. Pat did enjoy hearing his own tune... Same thing has happened t= o Judi Morningstar with her ubiquitous contra dance tune "March of St. Timothy." She's even seen it on recordings as "Traditional!" = So Dr. Quinn's crew danced to Margaret's Waltz, Lewis and Clark paddled t= o Bare Necessities, and Civil War soldiers wrote letters to the strains of Ashokan Farewell. Deconstruct that! Gene Murrow EC Caller, Musician, and Dancer who would fall forward if shot = ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:43:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 08:46:33 -0700 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: this and that To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Robin Hayden wrote: >One of the first folk music records I ever bought, back in the early 80's, >was a Bill Spence record that included Margaret's Waltz in one of its >medleys. (Could he have been the hammered-dulcimer-playing guest on >Prairie Home Companion?) So the tune has been in the general folk >repertoire for a long time by now. I don't remember whether Pat Shaw was >credited on the album, but if he was, I didn't notice it. ... which sent me scurrying for my CD of this Fennig's All-Star's album. Surprise, surprise: He DOES NOT credit Shaw. Margaret's is in a medley with "The Wedding Waltz" (which IS credited to Fennig's fiddler Tom McCreesh) and "Swinging on a Gate". He does say that all music (except as noted) is in the public domain (!). The original date of recording was 1975. Laurie (in Eugene, OR) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:21:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:21:42 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IXQ1TG41NC925N9O-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Dear dancers, Having just come away from the Fried-for-All having been told by Fried that in many ways I am "doing it all wrong," I am interested (not to say bowled over) by Gene's remarks. I have indeed been wondering if this is a difference between "Sharp style" and "Pat Shaw style," as Fried was a close friend of Pat Shaw's. Any insight there? About HOW one accomplishes the "pitched forward, on the balls of the feet" posture and motion, I can only say that it requires considerable strenght and flexibility in the ANKLES. I know of several ECD teachers who teach that movements such as setting and even walking come from the knees, but in analyzing my own dancing, I'd have to say that I use my feet and ankles, for setting, for maintaining my forward posture, and for general control of smoothness of motion. I will also confess that there are times when I use a heel-first walk, especially when travelling somewhere quickly. Wasn't it Vicky Bestock who recently wrote a long and exquisite analysis of What One Does, physically, when dancing? Robin Hayden Amherst, MA PS CDSS's recent move to Haydenville, MA, is a complete coincidence; and, of course, I am only a Hayden by marriage. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:55:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 10:43:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Gene Murrow wrote: > The "Margaret's Waltz" story I heard, from Pat Shaw himself if these memory > cells are working, involved a Canadian fiddler who approached Pat in Canada > to listen to a lovely Canadian waltz which he was sure Pat would really > enjoy. Pat did enjoy hearing his own tune... Same thing has happened to > Judi Morningstar with her ubiquitous contra dance tune "March of St. > Timothy." She's even seen it on recordings as "Traditional!" > > So Dr. Quinn's crew danced to Margaret's Waltz, Lewis and Clark paddled to > Bare Necessities, and Civil War soldiers wrote letters to the strains of > Ashokan Farewell. Deconstruct that! And people from a village in Scotland report one of their oldest traditional songs, "Aragon Mill" about how quiet the town is after the mill closed down. Changed the name to the name of their town, and Si Kahn has the satisfaction of knowing his song has entered the tradition. While meanwhile, an old fellow sings "Green Rolling Hills of West Virginia" to Utah Phillips, who won't say anything -- "Let him think it's an old song," he says. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 11:30:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Gene Murrow wrote: > Rick Rhodes wrote of Robin Hayden's dancing style: > > "I noticed that you danced with a slightly pitched-forward, > on-the-balls-of-your-feet posture. I'm not concerned with historical > accuracy, I just like the ECD style I saw you perform. The style seems > extremely subtle, and extremely hard to emulate! Any pointers?" One of the subtle differences between American, English, and Scottish dancing today is the position of one's body weight over the feet. American is more back on the heles; English, on the balls of the feet; and Scottish, forward slightly on the toes (but not on point or even half-point). As my feet know music better than my head, I use these slight difference to tell which kind of music is being played as the same tune appears so frequently is all three. However, I learned American square dancing before World War II in a small hill village where you didn't take lessons, you just stayed in the square in the corner until someone from one of the other squares asked you to dance in another square. The style I learned in backwoods America is what is referred to by Rick Rhodes as the ECD style. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 12:11:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:10:34 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806011510_MC2-3ED0-8F7C-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just checked my old Bill Spence recording of Saturday Night in the Provinces. No-they didn't give Pat Shaw credit on Marfaret's Waltz but th= ey at least referrred to as "music for an English circle dance" in the liner= notes-some credit due I guess! Ben Stein Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:05:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:04:11 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980601150411.5733-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> The "leaning slightly forward" for Playford was in vogue when I began this enjoyable diversion in the early 1970s. Genny Shimer, in her quiet way, and May Gadd (who I had for only one English week) aimed in the same direction. Looking at the old Sharp demonstration team photographs will show the idea at full-force. It is much more challenging mentally as well as physically. I regret that a number of well-known dance-week teachers (I dare not name them here) do not emphasize, do not even suggest, this approach. To the contrary, I often see them leaning back on their heels like sloppy contra dancers. The effect is one of anticipation and preparation and, usually, dancers adopting this style manage to start figures on time/in time to the music. At the same time, I realize that a number of English dancers would like to dance this way (myself included) but for various physical short- comings can not. Teachers need to be understanding of this, too. Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:10:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:14:12 -0400 From: "Albert A. Blank" Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <357319A4.49F2-AT- sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <980601150411.5733-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Dancing forward is a better description than leaning forward. In other forms of dance we learn that the lead comes from high in the torso, even from the shoulders and head. I began dance as a teen ager doing American square and contra and the style then also involved a lead from high up. The emphasis on the feet is misplaced. It isn't that one dances on the toes or the balls of the feet or even slips along more flatly as in the traditional American dances. It's more a matter of letting the feet catch the weight as the body moves forward or even slightly after, like a sprinter. Never should the body lag behind the feet. It is actually less effort to lead from the torso than from the feet or legs. Genny Shimer and other good teachers used to say that an English dancer shot through the heart would fall on the face. (Aside to John Forbes: if you find dancing forward stressful, you may be trying a forward lean without driving from the upper torso. Also, you may be trying to rise off your heels more than is comfortable for you -- that isn't necessary, although it's nice to do if you have the spring in your arches and ankles.) -- Albert Blank e-mail: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:16:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:14:34 -0400 From: "Albert A. Blank" Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <357319A4.49F2-AT- sprintmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <980601150411.5733-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Dancing forward is a better description than leaning forward. In other forms of dance we learn that the lead comes from high in the torso, even from the shoulders and head. I began dance as a teen ager doing American square and contra and the style then also involved a lead from high up. The emphasis on the feet is misplaced. It isn't that one dances on the toes or the balls of the feet or even slips along more flatly as in the traditional American dances. It's more a matter of letting the feet catch the weight as the body moves forward or even slightly after, like a sprinter. Never should the body lag behind the feet. It is actually less effort to lead from the torso than from the feet or legs. Genny Shimer and other good teachers used to say that an English dancer shot through the heart would fall on the face. (Aside to John Forbes: if you find dancing forward stressful, you may be trying a forward lean without driving from the upper torso. Also, you may be trying to rise off your heels more than is comfortable for you -- that isn't necessary, although it's nice to do if you have the spring in your arches and ankles.) -- Albert Blank e-mail: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 14:20:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 16:18:20 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980601161820.6e3d-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> To Al Blank: Actually, its my "4-F" feet, a congenital problem, that kept me out of the army. I've tried what you suggested, many years ago, and lots of other things besides. Forbes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:34:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:23:33 -0400 From: solweber-AT- juno.com (sol weber) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Margaret's Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980601.182923.3670.53.solweber-AT- juno.com> Re my posting about seeing Margaret's Waltz on the Dr Quinn TV show, many responded that there is a general impression in the land that it's in the public domain and is often presented without credit. Bill Matthiesen's WALTZ BOOK does indicate that it's by Pat Shaw, c. 1959, and I assume this is correct. In case CBS has innocently used the piece and not given credit (and royalties?) because of a misunderstanding, perhaps someone who's in touch with the Pat Shaw people might pass along the info, in case they want to pursue it. (Nicolas Broadbridge, you said you've been in touch with Marjorie Fennessy -- might you be willing to do that?) Here's the info (and I still have the tape of that show): The music was near the end of the May 16, 1998 episode of "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman". Sherry Whitfield was listed as Supervising Music Editor, and further info may be available at www.CBS.com. \+++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" ++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) +++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:54:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:51:43 -0700 From: Stephanie Smith Subject: Margaret's Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <35735AAF.333D-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199806011134_MC2-3EC3-3AEE-AT- compuserve.com> Gene Murrow wrote: > The "Margaret's Waltz" story I heard, from Pat Shaw himself if these memory > cells are working, involved a Canadian fiddler who approached Pat in Canada > to listen to a lovely Canadian waltz which he was sure Pat would really > enjoy. Pat did enjoy hearing his own tune... Same thing has happened to > Judi Morningstar with her ubiquitous contra dance tune "March of St. > Timothy." She's even seen it on recordings as "Traditional!" Well, I can add something to this story. The fiddler in question is the Shetland (Scottish) fiddler Aly Bain, member of the group the Boys of the Lough. He learned "Margaret's Waltz" from Jay Ungar, I believe, and this was probably on one of the Boys' tours in the US in the early 1970s. So Aly later told Pat about this wonderful waltz and played it for him. How these stories change with time! Just what we folklorists love to analyze! Stephanie Smith ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 18:52:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:52:53 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Margaret's Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Well, I can add something to this story. The fiddler in question is the >Shetland (Scottish) fiddler Aly Bain, member of the group the Boys of >the Lough. He learned "Margaret's Waltz" from Jay Ungar, I believe, and >this was probably on one of the Boys' tours in the US in the early >1970s. So Aly later told Pat about this wonderful waltz and played it >for him. > >How these stories change with time! Just what we folklorists love to >analyze! > >Stephanie Smith And John Kirkpatrick learned "Prince William" from Dudley Laufman's recording! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery; and the other that heat comes from the furnace. Aldo Leopold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 19:41:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 22:38:25 -0400 From: Arthur Ferguson <71470.3625-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing forward To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806012241_MC2-3ECC-BA50-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robin Hayden said: >About HOW one accomplishes the "pitched forward, on the balls of the feet" posture and motion, >I can only say that it requires considerable strenght >and flexibility in the ANKLES. I know of several ECD teachers who teach >that movements such as setting and even walking come from the knees, but in >analyzing my own dancing, I'd have to say that I use my feet and ankles, >for setting, for maintaining my forward posture, and for general control of >smoothness of motion. Right on, Robin! Helene Cornelius has always illustrated setting with a rise from the ankles providing the lift as one transfers weight to the other foot, and Jacqueline Schwab, who in addition to being a superb musician is one of the most beautiful dancers in the Boston area, always dances with a torso lead and great lift from the ankles. Back in the mid 70's when she was dancing on the Boston-area Bicentennial demonstration team, Jacqueline dancing looked like one of those preposterous Greek-vase or Pre-Raphaelite maidens who move across the ground with downward-pointing toes that never touch the earth. Arthur Ferguson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:21:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:23:02 -0700 From: John Carver Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: this and that To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980601212302.007ede80-AT- islandnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:30 PM 6/1/1998 -0400, Priscilla Burrage wrote: > >One of the subtle differences between American, English, and Scottish >dancing today is the position of one's body weight over the feet. >American is more back on the heles; English, on the balls of the feet; and >Scottish, forward slightly on the toes (but not on point or even >half-point).... It's the shoes that does it. Scottish dancers tend to wear soft, pliable shoes, more like a glove. This forces the dancer to use the muscles of the feet properly to avoid injuring the joints. American dancers tend to wear shoes with so much rubber, padding, air bubbles and support where you don't need it that the muscles never get a workout. John Carver Victoria, BC ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 05:59:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 08:59:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Boulder, CO To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Colleagues, any country dance or its ilk in Boulder the weekend of June 19-21? Incidentally, I've been reading up on Rolf Gardiner, one of the founders of the Morris Ring and other things, and in the interwar years a prominent EFDSS dissident. (They weren't weird enough for him.) I have a 1923 essay he wrote all about the importance of especially morris dancing. Quite intense stuff, to today's ear quite erotic as well. He tries to apply similar ideas to English country dance, as a group dance a reflection of community; and contemptuously rejects the polka and waltz as degenerate. I wanted to reassure everyone: you are not degenerate. Well most of you aren't, anyhow. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:30:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Arthur Ferguson et al: Your lyric and romantic description of Jackie dancing is a perfect reflection of what this style really is: A romantic 19th-c. reflection of an invented ecstatic "folk" style, similar in conception to Watteau's shepherdesses who had clearly never seen a sheep. It is exactly what we see in the photographs of Cecil Sharp's dancers (e.g. Jennie Shimer and May Gadd). It is indeed lovely; the probability of it bearing any likeness to what the folk actually did at any time is slight, however. Eighteenth-century country dance style, from what we can tell, was probably light and airy, but without the tilts at corners, and obviously not what the folk did either. The big question, of course, is: is English Country Dance derived from anything the folk ever did? The chances are good that the answer is no. The written records we have are from the dancing masters to the nobility and the gentry. The closest relations to these dances appear in the 15th-c. dance manuals of Italy! Julia Sutton On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Arthur Ferguson wrote: > Robin Hayden said: > >About HOW one accomplishes the "pitched forward, on the balls of the feet" > posture and motion, > >I can only say that it requires considerable strenght > >and flexibility in the ANKLES. I know of several ECD teachers who teach > >that movements such as setting and even walking come from the knees, but > in > >analyzing my own dancing, I'd have to say that I use my feet and ankles, > >for setting, for maintaining my forward posture, and for general control > of > >smoothness of motion. > > Right on, Robin! Helene Cornelius has always illustrated setting with a > rise from the ankles providing the lift as one transfers weight to the > other foot, and Jacqueline Schwab, who in addition to being a superb > musician is one of the most beautiful dancers in the Boston area, always > dances with a torso lead and great lift from the ankles. Back in the mid > 70's when she was dancing on the Boston-area Bicentennial demonstration > team, Jacqueline dancing looked like one of those preposterous Greek-vase > or Pre-Raphaelite maidens who move across the ground with downward-pointing > toes that never touch the earth. > > Arthur Ferguson > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 09:30:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:29:58 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To Arthur Ferguson et al: Your lyric and romantic description of Jackie dancing is a perfect reflection of what this style really is: A romantic 19th-c. reflection of an invented ecstatic "folk" style, similar in conception to Watteau's shepherdesses who had clearly never seen a sheep. It is exactly what we see in the photographs of Cecil Sharp's dancers (e.g. Jennie Shimer and May Gadd). It is indeed lovely; the probability of it bearing any likeness to what the folk actually did at any time is slight, however. Eighteenth-century country dance style, from what we can tell, was probably light and airy, but without the tilts at corners, and obviously not what the folk did either. The big question, of course, is: is English Country Dance derived from anything the folk ever did? The chances are good that the answer is no. The written records we have are from the dancing masters to the nobility and the gentry. The closest relations to these dances appear in the 15th-c. dance manuals of Italy! Julia Sutton On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Arthur Ferguson wrote: > Robin Hayden said: > >About HOW one accomplishes the "pitched forward, on the balls of the feet" > posture and motion, > >I can only say that it requires considerable strenght > >and flexibility in the ANKLES. I know of several ECD teachers who teach > >that movements such as setting and even walking come from the knees, but > in > >analyzing my own dancing, I'd have to say that I use my feet and ankles, > >for setting, for maintaining my forward posture, and for general control > of > >smoothness of motion. > > Right on, Robin! Helene Cornelius has always illustrated setting with a > rise from the ankles providing the lift as one transfers weight to the > other foot, and Jacqueline Schwab, who in addition to being a superb > musician is one of the most beautiful dancers in the Boston area, always > dances with a torso lead and great lift from the ankles. Back in the mid > 70's when she was dancing on the Boston-area Bicentennial demonstration > team, Jacqueline dancing looked like one of those preposterous Greek-vase > or Pre-Raphaelite maidens who move across the ground with downward-pointing > toes that never touch the earth. > > Arthur Ferguson > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 12:39:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:39:21 +0100 From: martin.sheffield-AT- wanadoo.fr (M Sheffield) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >About HOW one accomplishes the "pitched forward, on the balls of the feet" >posture and motion, ... I can't help feeling that the forward pitch is more a subjective feeling than a physical reality. For two reasons: 1) I dance on my toes and am pretty sure that my centre of gravity is well forward -- yet people have said that my straight back makes me look as if I were leaning backwards. Contradiction between what I feel and what is seen to be. 2) In fact we may well be leaning to the side (like a cyclist) when dancing in a curve. My mind's eye can see a photo from a dancing manual illustrating the hey or reel of three; the dancers are leaning over so far, you know they must be dancing -- otherwise they'd fall flat on the floor. (Can't remember where I saw the photo; the clothing is English everyday, but it may well be from a Scottish publication --in the days before the kilt became a requirement!) Our exact posture probably varies constantly according to what we are aiming to do and where we are trying to go. >I can only say that it requires considerable strenght >and flexibility in the ANKLES. And this effort -- quite invisible to the outsider -- is what turns a mundane walk into a flowing dance. Martin, Grenoble, France. ------------------ http://perso.wanadoo.fr/scots.in.france ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:37:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:37:08 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <752b3e98.35747e95-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julia Sutton's comments on this style of dancing are interesting; it never occurred to me that anyone was suggesting it (the style) had any kind of historical accuracy - merely that it was pretty to watch, and enviable. I had not thought about it really till now, but I realise that it is a style which has now almost entirely died in Britain. I still see traces of it in Marjorie Fennessy's dancing, and also in Betty Chater's. There are also a couple who come up to things in Edinburgh sometimes who dance the same way. All these are well past three score years, which prompts me to the thought that it was a dancing style which was killed off when Douglas Kennedy decreed that people should be allowed to dance "naturally" without being taught, and that "Playford" was not "folk dance" and therefore should be discouraged. Probably, also, the slower tempi at which we dance in Britain overall by comparison with the US would tend to militate against the C Sharp style here. Nicolas Broadbridge. Scotland. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 15:58:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:52:55 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <35748247.9EE0F192-AT- ecid.cig.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <752b3e98.35747e95-AT- aol.com> Nicolas Broadbridge wrote: > All these are well past three score years, which prompts me to the > thought that it was a dancing style which was killed off when Douglas > Kennedy decreed that people should be allowed to dance "naturally" > without being taught, and that "Playford" was not "folk dance" and > therefore should be discouraged. > Probably, also, the slower tempi at which we dance in Britain overall > by comparison with the US would tend to militate against the C Sharp > style here. > You might also find examples in the Round at Cambridge. I know that at the Inter Varsity Folk Dance Festival held in London in 1973ish, Nibs Matthews (then the Director of the EFDSS) had to take members of the Round to one side and explain "that we don't do Running Set like that any more". At that time, the Round were still performing everything exactly as laid down by C#. London Pride Morris Men and Country Dance Club may also still have C# tendencies. Michael Barraclough -- ________________________________________________________________________ Michael Barraclough +44 1793 565344 (v) Project Manager +44 1793 512618 (f) Motorola ECIG +44 410 806610 (m) 16 Euroway, Blagrove, Swindon SN5 8YQ, UK QSWI971-AT- email.mot.com ________________________________________________________________________ Document Classification: Motorola Internal Use Only Warning: This message must be encrypted if sent outside of Motorola ________________________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:10:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 23:10:31 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Julia Sutton's comments on this style of dancing are interesting; it never >occurred to me that anyone was suggesting it (the style) had any kind of >historical accuracy - merely that it was pretty to watch, and enviable. Interesting things here. What do you mean by "enviable", Nicholas? > which prompts me to the thought >that it was a dancing style which was killed off when Douglas Kennedy decreed >that people should be allowed to dance "naturally" without being taught, Wow. That's really interesting. How did that come about and when and how did people respond to it and tell us about it!!! >and >that "Playford" was not "folk dance" and therefore should be discouraged. Another piece of a puzzle here. Can you tell us about that part? > Probably, also, the slower tempi at which we dance in Britain overall by >comparison with the US would tend to militate against the C Sharp style here. Of course, we have our slow dances too, and they require even better carriage to perform (do, dance) with the canted style with which we move, or maybe I speak only for Boston. But mostly they provide a respite from the uniformity of tempo which, to me, would make an entire evening less interesting and does at the popular contra dances here. As far as this matter of dance style, it still seems plain to me that in the US most of the older groups have developed a style in a continuum beginning with Sharp's proteges, without this interruption from Douglas Kennedy to which you refer. As a result our style has changed, and in that sense it is a "folk" dance now, here, because a community of people/dancers has had a slowly evolving effect upon it. The same has happened to our repertoire, and, with distinct differences from place to place, our tempi. In addition, I've always maintained that the situation would have been radically different in the last 25 years if we had not had our own "traditional" dance - the N.E. square and contra dance - to absorb the energy which we see also in what we refer to as "traditional" English Country Dance. Had that not been there, I believe our style would have changed far further from Sharp's original idea than it has thus far. Curiously, also, despite Douglas' impact as reported by you, it was from Nibs that I first heard about the "egg out of the egg cup" approach to carriage, and the Nibs that I danced with way back in 1972(?) at Pinewoods demonstrated it just precisely. He may not have been leaning quite the way Genny did, or Helene does, or Arthur Cornelius or Sue Salmons, but there was no trudge in his movement, nor march. As for the matter of dancing forward: Saturday evening I had yet another opportunity to observe the impact of one model dancer on a group. Many leaders can talk quite concretely about how to achieve the poise we Americans use in our English Country Dance style. But there's nothing like an example on the floor, constantly illustrating how it happens. Six new or less experienced dancers came to my little 5th Saturday event, so I did 3 couple sets all evening (and the band had to work hard). Fortunately there are lots in the repertoire, different formations, different content, new, old, boring, complicated. What wealth we have! For a large part of the evening I was one of the six and one other was only trying to be a good sport for her husband and not really at all convinced that she could do this. (But the reality for her is that she is more capable than her husband, he being a big dear bear of a man who steps on things by accident.) In addition there was a contra dance newbie. So we danced and part way through the evening I noticed that the contra dancer newcomer had changed her way of moving entirely. The wife, on the other hand, was beginning to find the patterns interesting, and found herself able to organize a slipping step in the big circles while her spouse was still leaping about with abandon. I believe these things happened because I was there dancing too, being an example. Along the same line of thought: I will never forget the first time I saw Helene dance, or the time she and Arthur did St. Martins at demonstration at camp. These moments leave us with a sense of direction, what could be, how to "really " do it. Sad, that demonstration afternoon has long since faded out in the interest of equality, and not hurting feelings. When our best examples are up at the mic, or caught up in the crowd on the floor, we don't get to look carefully at them ever. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery; and the other that heat comes from the furnace. Aldo Leopold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 13:35:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 10:11:15 +0000 (BRITAIN) From: HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re Dancing forward To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IXSNVS57KY002BVW-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> I know that at the Inter Varsity Folk Dance Festival >> held in London in 1973ish, Nibs Matthews (then the Director of the EFDSS) >> had to take members of the Round to one side and explain "that >> we don't do Running Set like that any more". The students concerned were awake enough to invite him to come to Cambridge one evening to show them the right way. He did half an evening of standard dances and half of Big Set running set. At the end of the evening the president (a long-standing don, not a student) stood up and in effect said "thanks for that; it was very interesting, but we will continue to follow our traditions". There is enough interplay between the Round and the rest of the dance world that I think any differences have blurred out by now, but I will think about it in a couple of weeks when we have our annual Playford Ball to which many past members come for their annual fix. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:07:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 07:54:57 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: in defense of Fried To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IXSJ1Z3XBM925Q6F-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Hello, all, I've been receiving a lot of personal messages in response to my comment about what happened to me at the Fried-For-All, and I feel obliged to rise to Fried's defense. My perplexity arose not from being criticized -- indeed, I WELCOME feedback about my dancing, and look forward very much to that component of Bruce Hamilton's English Dance Leaders' Week at Pinewoods this summer (so do your best, Bruce) -- but from Fried's rejection of the style I have purposely been cultivating all the years of my dancing, and of the mentors I hold up as examples of style. So what I want to know is, where does Fried get her notion of style?? Robin Hayden ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:08:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 16:03:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Network problems, mailing list glitches To: winston-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU BCC: ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IXUEH3OMMA9LUZ2E-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Folks -- This note is to explain some of the weird stuff that's been happening on this mailing list the last couple of days. Basically, the site here detected a hacker penetration early this week. They shut off all Internet access while assessing the situation. Then they started turning on services one-by-one, starting with SMTP (the mail transport). Messages were delivered to playford for redistribution to the mailing list. It tried to look up the mailing list addresses in the Domain Name Server, which hadn't been turned on again yet. The mailing list processor marked all those delivery attempts as failed. When the DNS started working again, some messages went out and some didn't; some seemed to get jammed in the outbound queues. Manually restarting may have resulted in messages being delivered multiple times. I believed I have succeeded in cleaning up the remaining mess, and the lists should now be working properly again. My apologies for the inconvenience. -- Alan List Maintainer =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 12:01:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 15:03:23 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Old Mill/ Merry Salopians To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well, last night we did the Merry Salopians/Old Mill. I don't know how many of you are acquainted with this dance, but it's a 3-cpl set in Hunter's Moon. There's this mirror hey across the set in the beginning of the B music. But it's not a bulge hey, it's really very akin to a morris hey with casting out from the hey direction at the ends, and the middles going through the outer couples. There's a substantial confusion at this point at the beginning of this hey pertaining to how the ends begin moving. The choices are basically between casting, as in a morris hey, or not casting - the 2nd & 3rd ladies moving away from each other but toward their partners, allowing the 1s to pass between them, the 2nd & 3rd men also moving away from each other but looping out a bit further so that the ladies can pass between them before they pass between the 1s. But as soon as the hey gets going the couples cast on the ends, like a morris hey. Well, perhaps many of you have noticed what has been happening more and more in Hambleton's, how the 2s and 3s more and more are casting into the hey for three? Or at least the 2s? And many of you will understand the analogy to a morris hey, where the ends cast into the hey and the mids pass up between? So I tried to get the folks to try it that way, since Tom is not explicit in Hunter's Moon. We had a lot of trouble, part of it attributable to my not being crystal clear, and part, I think, attributable to the dancers wanting to do it the way they more or less have muddled through in the past. Has anyone on the list talked with Tom about this and gotten any ideas from him about it? Can you pass it on here? Thanks. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery; and the other that heat comes from the furnace. Aldo Leopold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 12:01:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 15:03:31 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Colin's a married man today To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Congrats Colin! Hope all goes well for many years for you both! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery; and the other that heat comes from the furnace. Aldo Leopold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 12:17:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 15:20:11 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin's a married man today To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Congrats Colin! Hope all goes well for many years for you both! > > Emily L. Ferguson Yeah Colin and Colin's bride! I remember last year at camp, the certain glow Colin had as he told us about his decision to wed.... never let it be said that only bride's have "that look!" Best wishes to the newlyweds. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:44:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 08:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Running set? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "Weird stuff" on the list? No weirder than usual. Question about the use of the term "running set." I've been told that this really represents Sharp's misunderstanding of what he saw and heard on his tour of the States during World War I. He then took said misunderstanding back to England where he proclaimed it as the real thing, as part of his idea that ancient English culture was preserved in the the Appalachians. Any comments? What is a "running set" and what was old Cecil really up to? Inquiring minds want to know. thanks Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 05:58:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:57:43 +0000 (BRITAIN) From: HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Running set? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IY5GIKW75U0035XI-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> Question about the use of the term "running set." The locals talked of a visiting couple "running the set" when they visited all the other couples in the set in turn in a visiting couple figure. My belief is that Cecil Sharp mis-interpreted that to be the term for the dance style. (Probably the locals didn't have a term for the local style -- as far as they were concerned it didn't need distingushing from any other style.) >> Inquiring minds want to know. Try http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/round/dances/krs/index.htm for more than you probably want. Hugh Stewart ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:55:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:55:09 -0400 From: "Howard A. Markham" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Running set? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980612135509.006ced3c-AT- mail90.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd like to hear John Ramsey's take on this subject. John? At 01:57 PM 6/12/98 +0000, HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM wrote: >>> Question about the use of the term "running set." >The locals talked of a visiting couple "running the set" when they visited > all the other couples in the set in turn in a visiting couple figure. >My belief is that Cecil Sharp mis-interpreted that to be the term for the >dance style. (Probably the locals didn't have a term for the local style -- >as far as they were concerned it didn't need distingushing from any other >style.) > >>> Inquiring minds want to know. > Try http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/round/dances/krs/index.htm >for more than you probably want. > >Hugh Stewart > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:14:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 16:14:25 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Running set? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980612161425.78a5-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> I'm pretty sure he's not on the net, but can someone who lives near him contact the Rev. Dr. Pat Napier? He has, IMHO, the most useful book on the subject and has been teaching within this genre at Berea's Christmas School as long as I've been going and more (this will be my 27th in a row). Forbes/Baker U (And a good chance to publicly thank John Ramsay for making a large number of those 27 opportunities possible) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:14:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 17:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Running set? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <13f448d9.35819a84-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/12/98 12:50:30 PM, you wrote: <> I think "running set" refers to a big-circle visiting couple dance done with a running step to rapid tempo southern reels. At least that is what is meant by "Kentucky Running Set" as done at the Berea (Kentucky) Christmas Country Dance School. I was told that Cecil Sharp had visited Berea, so he may have picked up the "rnning set" there. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:07:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 13:04:41 -0400 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: mission statement To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980612.130441.4766.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> Some time ago, when I was in the Bay Area, I became aware of a vote on a Mission Statement. As we at CD*NY are now possibly considering a mission statement it would be interesting to see a copy, whether it passed or not. If anyone can e-mail it to me (text only please, I can not open attachments) or snail mailed if necessary, I would be most appreciative. Also if you or anyone you know of have any examples of other group mission statements, I would like to know how to get copies. Feel free to forward this to anyone who can help. Thanx Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 23:14:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 02:11:58 -0400 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Nel's Farewell/Dunant House Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980613.021200.4478.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> I needthe instructions to Nel's Farewell ASAP. I thought I had them somewhere but I don't! I'm to teach it this afternoon (Sun., June 14th, 1998). HELLLPPP! Martha P.S.-I do have the music. Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 02:39:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 11:41:56 +0200 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Nel's Farewell/Dunant House Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: marthacd-AT- juno.com Message-ID: <01bd9778$ac157900$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martha Davey wrote: >I needthe instructions to Nel's Farewell ASAP. >I thought I had them somewhere but I don't! >I'm to teach it this afternoon (Sun., June 14th, 1998). >HELLLPPP! >Martha >P.S.-I do have the music. DUNANT HOUSE WALTZ or FAREWELL TO NEL formation: 3 couples longways with 2nd couple improper A1 2nd couple set and cast right round one person, (man down, woman up); half straight hey across passing left to start. A2 2nd couple set and cast right round same person; half straight hey along passing left to start. B1 2nd couple individually out to right and circle three to left 2nd couple dancers let go left hand and draw others into lines along (2nd man on men's side with 1st woman and 1st man below him; 1st woman on women's side with 3rd man and 3rd woman above); opposites (new partners) back to back. A3 Circle six left and right. Music by Roger Davidson (30.12.91) Dance by Colin Hume 1992 Presented to Nel van Loon on her retirement from Henri Dunant House, the home of the NVS Christmas Courses. The NVS has now moved to another location for Christmas Courses. Keep an eye on our website for details of this year's course: http://www.iae.nl/users/antony/ Good luck this afternoon/evening with the dance. Antony Heywood Dutch Folk Dance Society NVS ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 07:52:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 08:05:21 +0000 From: Susan B Booker Subject: Re: Running Set To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199806141453.KAA29732-AT- pimout3-int.prodigy.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My music and dance books are in a state of turmoil, and the library isn't open yet, so I can't document this - but Cecil Sharp first encountered the "Kentucky Running Set" at the Pine Mountain Settlement School in southestern Kentucky, where he was a guest, in either 1916 or 1917. Sharp visited the Southern Appalachians to collect ballads and other songs - the "running set" was a bonus. I concur with the theory that he misunderstood the name of the dance. It is said that the term was to"run a set", which describes the traveling or visiting couple(s). It's a great dance; highly aerobic, which doesn't get danced often enough these days! Susan Booker Lexington, KY ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 10:19:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 13:21:17 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Running Set To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Ramsay in St Louis Cecil Sharp first saw what he termed Kentucky Running Set in August 1917 at Pine Mountain Settlement School. I have been under the impression that the dance had no standardized name until Sharp published a description of it and thus had to title it (see Country Dance Book V). Frank Smith, my dance teacher and mentor beginning in 1947, says in his book The Appalachian Square Dance... "Mr. Sharp had probably heard somebody say, 'Let's run a set,' and so he published the figures he saw on this (Pine Mountain) and subsequent occasions under the title, The Kentucky Running Set. In the strange way that things in this world have of taking root, the term, 'Kentucky Running Set,' has come to mean an Appalachian Square Dance in four-couple sets. Whether the formation is four, six, or eight, or fifty couples, the dancing style is exactly the same." The dance did have localized names, e.g. Sugar on the Floor (see Marion Skean's booklet Circle Left). But it could also have been the only activity known as a dance in some communities and thus needed no name. In my experience it has usually been called a square dance and some people consider the two couple (duple minor) pairs as the "square." Set running and running set are interchangeable; but I don't know whether the set refers to a set of figures or the set of people, or if running means to lope or, alternatively, to run (procede) through a sequence. During my tenure at Berea College (1973-95), I purposefully used five couples in demonstrations of "set running" to make the point that it is a circle dance and not a quadrille (see my notations for the Black Snake Twist on Dances from Appalachia #3, the McLain Family Band Country Dance Album). My association with Marguerite Butler Bidstrup who was present at Pine Mountain when Sharp first saw the dance, and the distinct pleasure of meeting and running a set for Maude Karpeles at Winfield House in London in 1975 (?) gave me no reason to think of set running differently from what I had been taught by Frank Smith altho I did not specifically ask either Mag or Maude about the name. Now, I have a question! When, where, and why did the feature of having one couple at a time make the rounds (similar to having only the top couple initiate the dancing in longways dances) change.? It was likely a spontaneous solution to the bigger circles and longer lines which came with more mobile communities and the faster pace of life, but is there any documentation of these changes? Mag told me that she timed one running set for more than two hours with the single lead couple configuration. How did the musicians hold up? I know that at Micaville, North Carolina where I taught public school from 1956-59 the local "big set" with 60+ couples included a "Shoo Fly Swing" figure, which was what I call "cumulative," rather than waiting for the top couple to make a circuit before the second couple began, drastically cutting down the time required for the figure. At Carcassone, in eastern Kentucky, they have two couples at opposite sides of the room lead out and complete their circuit before the next two couples lead out if the circle is too large for one lead couple. And in the Appalachian "square" dance as danced throughout the area today every other couple leads out just as we do in longways or contra dances when we "take hands four from the top." This is a good area for research, a dissertation, and another example of how dance reflects society. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:51:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 16:53:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford Ball this Saturday, 6/20, Urbana, IL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199806152153.QAA10137-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> The Central Illinois English Country Dancers Invite You To An E N G L I S H C O U N T R Y D A N C E P L A Y F O R D B A L L The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their third annual Playford Ball on Saturday, June 20, 1998. The dance will be held at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus of the University of Illinois. There will be a review of the evening's dances from 7:00 to 8:00, followed by the Ball from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Fans and finery are encouraged. There will be a $5.00 suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball. All lovers of English Country dance and music are welcome. Dances Lead By: Susan Burt, Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort Dance Review: 7:00 p.m. Playford Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Date: Saturday, June 20, 1998 Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL Suggested Donation: $5.00 There will be refreshments at the break and a party following the dance. There will be a costume contest with a Top Couple (King and Queen of the Ball) being chosen. Here is the list of dances we will be doing: The Bishop The Dressed Ship Elizabeth by Colin Hume Flowers of Edinburgh A Grand March The Hatter (Danish) Jack's Maggot Jacob Hall's Jig Oranges and Lemons Picking Up Sticks Prince William Trip To Paris Waterfall Waltz For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu) at 217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708 or check the webpage at - http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/playford.html Thanks for the support of the Champaign Park District. For those who are interested, the Urbana Country Dancers will be holding a contra dance on Friday, June 19, from 8 to 11 p.m. at the Crystal Lake Park Pavilion in Urbana. Jonathan Sivier will be calling and The Prairie Mountaineers will be playing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:45:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 08:53:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Contra dancing in Germany? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980617155335.329.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is a bit off-subject but seemed like the best crowd to ask. A friend of mine is in Germany for the summer and wants to know if there is anyplace around there to contra dance. Unfortunately I don't know exactly where in Germany she is based. If anyone has information on that regard you can email it directly to her at kristen.hylenski-AT- yale.edu and not bother the rest of the list. Thanks. === Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:54:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:54:41 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special dance June 23 To: Friends of English Dance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ** SPECIAL DANCE ANNOUNCEMENT ** As you know, we are now dancing every Tuesday, 7 to 9, at Oak Park. This has not changed. However, this coming Tuesday, the 23rd, we will have *live music* (and a sound system) featuring violinist Orin Hildestad. Orin is a student of modern-day violin/fiddle legend Giles Apap, and will be playing fiddle for our June 23 dance. Orin is a scholarship winner from the Santa Barbara Music Club scholarship competition. Also playing: Linelle Glass, fiddle John Sonquist, piano Lori Hamilton, flute John Redding, guitar, recorder, and/or penny whistle Tony Johansen, penny whistle and/or guitar We are asking $5 each for this dance to help Orin along in his studies (and to pay for the floor). -- Gary ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:11:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 22:09:54 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Apologies and an addendum to mis-sent mail To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry about the mysterious "as you know" message about dances at Oak Park. This is in Santa Barbara and was supposed to be bcc'd to SBFED-list, not ECD-list (Eudora nicknames). SBFED is Santa Barbara Friends of English Dance and we're dancing every Tuesday, usually, alas, with recorded music. (Now if I could only get Bare Necessities to record the entire Barnes book.) -- Gary D. Shapiro (That's "Gary Yes! at...") Enlightenment is both a floor wax and a dessert topping. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:59:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:59:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Charlotte Beauchamp To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199806192159.RAA25191-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Dance Friends, Charlotte Ellis Beauchamp, New York dancer and member of Chelsea English Country Dancers and Half Moon Sword, died in her sleep shortly after midnight on the morning of Saturday, June 13th. Her ashes will be scattered this Tuesday in Connecticut, where she and her late husband George lived before settling in Jersey City. A memorial celebration of Charlotte's life will take place on the afternoon of Sunday, July 26th, at General Seminary, 175 Ninth Avenue, New York City. Further details will follow. In lieu of flowers, the Stephenson family, Charlotte's closest friends, have requested that donations be made to Country Dance New York, designated for the Charlotte and George Beauchamp Scholarship Fund. Donations can be sent to CD*NY c/o Sharon Green, 175 Ninth Avenue, New York NY 10011. Sharon Green & Kit Campbell ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:42:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:41:33 -0700 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've heard some of you are sick of Dublin Bay but I don't exactly live in a hotbed of ECD activity and I'm still a little nuts about it. The last time I danced Dublin Bay I did not realize I would be trying to teach it some months (year?) later. I've looked at my description that I copied from a formed ECD teacher in town, and the A part just doesn't quite jive with my memory. Could someone spew forth how they think the A part goes? Thanks! -- Gary "Still needs a ride from SF to Mendocino" Shapiro ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:28:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 01:29:41 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6951e6c5.358f3d47-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 6/23/98 12:45:08 AM, you wrote: <> The following is wordy, but bare-bones directions may not help you teach = the=0Adance: Duple minor, proper. Note that the tune is in 12/8 time (4 beats to the= =0Ameasure, each beat made up of three 8th notes). (Measure)1: 1s cross the set with a setting set toward their corner (M1 t= o W2=0Aand W1 to M2): with W1 crossing in front of M1, and (at least as w= e do it in=0ABaltimore) with the first step of the set toward and acknowl= edging partner. 2: Turn corners by right hand: go only far enough so that the 1s finish t= he=0Aturn above the 2s (improper in 1s place) but before reaching the poi= nt of=0Afacing out from the set. 3-5:1s cross the set passing left shoulders and continue outside the set,= then=0Abelow the 2s, meeting (but not touching) in the center, continuin= g up the=0Acenter and turning out to end facing neighbor of same sex, for= ming line across=0Athe set. 6-7: Arm right with neighbor (M1 with M2, W1 with W2) - I won't rekindle = the=0Abattle over how many times - ending with all 4 taking hands in lin= e facing=0Adown, which will require M2 and W1 to do a little flip to be f= acing down. =97Carl Friedman=0A ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:37:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 23:38:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IYJZRJ5YE8A4M4IH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Not to be excessively argumentative, but "The Playford Ball" sez the 1s cross right shoulder (at measure 3), and that's the way I've always danced (and thus) taught it. This may be Gary's chance to set a local tradition. (And Gary, I'm working on the ride thing. The housing may be harder.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:11:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:11:15 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <774470ef.358fc594-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/23/98 6:40:29 AM, you wrote: << Not to be excessively argumentative, but "The Playford Ball" sez the 1s cross right shoulder (at measure 3), and that's the way I've always danced (and thus) taught it.>> Your copy must be very different from mine. Mine has the 1s crossing by right shoulder in the FIRST measure, and by the left shoulder in the FOURTH measure. The second crossing has been taught as left shoulder every time I have ever done it, in many locales (admittedly never in California). The timing, however, in "The Playford Ball" of the second crossing is actually later than I have ever done it. If you make a complete right hand turn, consuming 8 beats, you will have almost certainly gone too far and will have turn around and then have to rush that wonderful, sweeping, spiralling next move. I think of the second crossing as coming in the 3rd measure, blending in with the right hand turn. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:10:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:11:38 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806240811_MC2-4128-BE87-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, the plot thickens... There are, IMHO, good reasons why Dublin Bay should be done with crossings first by R, then by L in bar 4 (not 3): The R-hand turns are beautiful, wide turns, and provide a good resolution= to the agitated crossings at the start of the dance. People cut them sho= rt because most dance phrases are in groups of 8 counts, so they instinctive= ly want to finish the turns 8 counts after the beginning of the dance. But the unusual contour of D-B's opening movement is one of its delights. Th= e set/crossing is in one bar (4 beats), and the R-hand turns are in 2 bars = (8 beats), followed by the crossing in 1 bar-- rather than the more usual parsing of 4 bars as 2 bars + 2 bars. The MUSIC supports this. Each of the first THREE bars are in the same rhythm: |ta-deedle, ta-deedle, ta-da= h| . The new rhythm starts in bar 4: |ta-deedle-ta-dah| = At the end of the turns, the 1st man is about to face out, while the 1st woman is moving to face in. The 1st man has to do a sort of cast to the = L, which is an equally important reason for giving the turn a full 2 bars. = This also explains why the crossing is by the L-- the woman can move righ= t into it, as the man turns up and L Cutting these turns short explains the "battle" of the ensuing arm-R turns-- most people, having cheated the R-hand turn, arrive too soon into= the line and start the arm-R too soon. They fill the space with many ext= ra turns. One of the pleasures of ECD for me is the variety of "shapes" of movment-= - not just the patterns, but the contour of movement through space and its juxtaposition with or against the contour of the musical phrase. Great dances subtly exploit the tensions and concordances ("tension and release= " in Martha Graham's words) that result. More next month at Mendocino's "What Makes a Dance Great" session :-) [shameless paid political advertisement] Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Teacher, and speaker in tongues (ta-dah!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:17:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:18:48 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:11 AM -0400 6/24/98, Gene Murrow wrote: >The MUSIC supports this. Each of >the first THREE bars are in the same rhythm: |ta-deedle, ta-deedle, ta-dah| > . The new rhythm starts in bar 4: |ta-deedle-ta-dah| Gene gets my vote for "Best Doodling in a cyber setting" Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 05:17:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:18:48 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 8:11 AM -0400 6/24/98, Gene Murrow wrote: >The MUSIC supports this. Each of >the first THREE bars are in the same rhythm: |ta-deedle, ta-deedle, ta-dah| > . The new rhythm starts in bar 4: |ta-deedle-ta-dah| Gene gets my vote for "Best Doodling in a cyber setting" Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:52:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:56:24 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980624195332.ELVE2477-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My vote for Gene; at last I know *why* it feels right to me -- beyond, of course, the fact that it was taught that way when I first learned it in NYC (ca. 1985). If I remember correctly, it was recently (this past winter-spring) taught the other way (second cross after two measures, but passing left) in NYC. It might be useful to the list for the teachers who taught it recently to give their reasons for their interpretation. I would also be interested in knowing whether in deciding to teach it the "new" way there was any discussion with teachers and dancers who had done it the old way, or whether the recent teachers had simply reanalyzed it on their own & decided that it made more sense to do it as they did. I do recall, years ago, that when I danced outside of NYC I often found dancers (I'm not sure about the teachers) who started the cross after only two measures -- or, apparently, whenever they felt like it, treating the whole sequence of turn-cross-cast-go-below-loop-up as a unit to be fit in between the third and twelfth beats. Art ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:47:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:47:48 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <49639833.35918215-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 6/24/98 12:14:11 PM, you wrote: <> I have to admit that I have not tried completing the initial right hand turns, as Gene Murrow suggests, and doing a cast over the left shoulder after the turn sounds elegant and may work nicely. I'll try it. But... the "battle" of the arm-rights is due to other issues, IMHO: 1) it doesn't take 8 counts to arm right and end in a line - it does take 8 counts to do the usual "arm right and fall back to place ready to arm left" as in the standard Playford introductions. 2) the instructions in Playford read something like (this is from memory - I'm at work at the moment) "armes all and back againe" which is not equivalent to "arm right exactly once" but is open to lots of different interpretation 3) the music may say "arm right exactly once" to you, but it says "arm right exactly twice unless your arming partner doesn't want to" to me; 4) if you do an elegant spiral sweep, meeting your partner in the center and arriving for the arm-right just at the right moment, as I believe generally happens for experienced dancers, the urge to arm right twice is still there. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:02:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:49:56 -0400 From: solweber-AT- juno.com (sol weber) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980624.215738.13926.31.solweber-AT- juno.com> As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in dances the MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward sentence!) "Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my pink rounds book (used by permission). Any others that fit that description? If so, where may the music be obtained? Thanks. (And go see "The Truman Show". Great movie!) \+++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" ++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) +++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:08:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:07:05 -0400 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980624220705.006e9b94-AT- popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" The B music (and dance) of Round Pond is in a round. Pat Shaw, Pinewoods collection. Diane At 07:49 PM 6/24/1998 -0400, you wrote: >As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in dances the >MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward sentence!) >"Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my pink rounds book >(used by permission). Any others that fit that description? If so, where >may the music be obtained? Thanks. > >(And go see "The Truman Show". Great movie!) > > >\+++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" >++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) >+++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. > >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com >Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:12:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:11:35 -0700 (PDT) From: James Langdell Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: jamesc-AT- Eng.Sun.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199806250211.TAA14376-AT- bassclar.eng.sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Sol Weber (solweber-AT- juno.com) wrote: > > As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in dances the > MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward sentence!) > "Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my pink rounds book > (used by permission). Any others that fit that description? If so, where > may the music be obtained? Thanks. "Christchurch Bells" is another country dance tune that is a round. I think it's included in "The Playford Ball" book with a reproduction of the song as a 3-part round. Playing that tune as a round for dancing, however, risks confusion, since that can easily risk blurring the beginning and end of each cycle of the dance. It works well only if the part that begins with the dance stands out from the musical texture very clearly, and the other round voices that start the melody at different points sounding in the background of that clearest thread. --James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com Sun Microsystems Menlo Park, Calif. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:46:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:47:22 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806242248_MC2-5143-85B1-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message text written by Carl Friedman: >I have to admit that I have not tried completing the initial right hand turns, as Gene Murrow suggests, and doing a cast over the left shoulder after th= e turn sounds elegant and may work nicely. I'll try it. But... the "battle"= of the arm-rights is due to other issues,... [good explanations follow]< I agree entirely about the other issues, recognizing that the figure as w= e do it is very different from the original (see "The Playford Ball" for a facsimile). I'm all for having fun with the dance, and have been known to= get in a few extra turns myself with a willing neighbor! My timing suggestions simply remove an extra 4 counts of temptation or possibly dea= d air, and align the opening more closely with the music.... Gene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:04:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:03:15 -0400 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980625.230316.3550.0.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> References: <199806250211.TAA14376-AT- bassclar.eng.sun.com> I have done a three couple longways dance to "Christchurch Bells", taught by Helene Cornelius, called "Mr Shaw's Canon", in which the *dance* was also a canon with each couple starting at a different place in the dance/music. Martha Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:11:35 -0700 (PDT) James Langdell writes: >Sol Weber (solweber-AT- juno.com) wrote: >> >> As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in >dances the >> MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward sentence!) > >> "Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my pink rounds >book >> (used by permission). Any others that fit that description? If so, >where >> may the music be obtained? Thanks. > >"Christchurch Bells" is another country dance tune that is a round. >I think it's included in "The Playford Ball" book with a reproduction >of the song as a 3-part round. > >Playing that tune as a round for dancing, however, risks confusion, >since that can easily risk blurring the beginning and end of >each cycle of the dance. It works well only if the part that >begins with the dance stands out from the musical texture >very clearly, and the other round voices that start the melody >at different points sounding in the background of that clearest >thread. > >--James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com > Sun Microsystems Menlo Park, Calif. > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:33:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:34:26 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "Tanya L. Rotenberg" , Ted Rudofker , jbeer-AT- omni1.voicenet.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3591D352.6F04-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <19980624.215738.13926.31.solweber-AT- juno.com> Last year Jenny Beer wrote a dance and a tune (with words!) to go with it (for Tanya Rotenberg and Ted Rudofker on the occasion of their marriage). It's called "Surprise and Delight." If I remember aright, Jenny said AFTER she wrote it, she realized the tune was a round -- and she and several compatriots sang it that way at the wedding dance earlier this month. John Krumm called a square dance to a round (I think the dance was a round, too -- memory's fading), last holiday season, I think. I loved it, but some may have found it corny (and we all got to sing!). Mary Kay Friday Washington, D.C. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:13:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:15:31 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >In a message dated 6/23/98 6:40:29 AM, you wrote: > ><< >Not to be excessively argumentative, but "The Playford Ball" sez the 1s >cross right shoulder (at measure 3), and that's the way I've always >danced (and thus) taught it.>> > >Your copy must be very different from mine. Mine has the 1s crossing by right >shoulder in the FIRST measure, and by the left shoulder in the FOURTH measure. >The second crossing has been taught as left shoulder every time I have ever >done it, in many locales (admittedly never in California). The timing, >however, in "The Playford Ball" of the second crossing is actually later than >I have ever done it. If you make a complete right hand turn, consuming 8 >beats, you will have almost certainly gone too far and will have turn around >and then have to rush that wonderful, sweeping, spiralling next move. I think >of the second crossing as coming in the 3rd measure, blending in with the >right hand turn. > >Carl Friedman Server wouldn't let me send this earlier: We start by crossing right as you descend setting, that's 2 bars. Then we turn right with the corner for the next 4 bars, which corresponds to the phrase (which divides melodically into 6+8). Then, passing left at the top, the 1s use the remaining 8 bars for the go below, big mirror turn inbetween the 2s, and arm right into the line facing down. But it's always been pass left across at the top in Boston. On the other hand, I've never been clear on why the 1st M doesn't l-hnd trn with the second lady after setting, and, similarly why he doesn't arm l with the 2nd M after the mirror turn in the middle. Of course, if you look in Fallibroome the whole thing's been seriously reworked from Bentley's original source which is why it's not called We'll Wed & We'll Bed. Sure hope Colin & Renata danced it at their wedding party, however! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery; and the other that heat comes from the furnace. Aldo Leopold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:25:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 22:27:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Help with Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IYMPNTV1Y6A4MDDE-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I thought I'd missed the window of opportunity for this, but since Emily quoted Carl quoting me: >Not to be excessively argumentative, but "The Playford Ball" sez the 1s >cross right shoulder (at measure 3), and that's the way I've always >danced (and thus) taught it. I was just wrong, and I should have kept my mouth shut. What I was actually thinking of was that the turns are right hand turns -- I once called them as right hand turns and had a local dancer, clearly suffering the kind of brain fade I suffered this morning, ask if I was sure about that, so I pulled out PB and showed her -- but this was of course not actually in question. Sorry for spreading confusion. I shouldn't post when I'm too busy to think. Emily also wrote: >Of course, if you look in Fallibroome the whole thing's been seriously >reworked from Bentley's original source which is why it's not called We'll >Wed & We'll Bed. Too tired to dig out Fallibroome, but I remember getting the vague impression that it wasn't called "We'll Wed & We'll Bed" because of some vague prudishness about the title, rather than because of the (extensive) reworking. I do appreciate Bentley's noting what changes have been made, rather than plopping the interpretations out without comment. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:22:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:12:10 -0400 From: solweber-AT- juno.com (sol weber) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980625.021634.13926.38.solweber-AT- juno.com> References: <19980624.215738.13926.31.solweber-AT- juno.com> <3591D352.6F04-AT- erols.com> Hi, Mary, and thanks. Here's a funny story. Jenny Beer DID give me a copy of her "Surprise and Delight" round. At the end of the Heritage Festival (Germantown, PA) in Sept '97, I drove to nearby Swarthmore College to lead rounds at a specially-convened gathering of their round-singing group. It was quite pleasant, with about 25 fresh-faced, enthusiastic college kids. I said, "HERE'S one I just learned", and started singing it to them. There was a whoop and holler, and they told me they knew Jenny, who had taught them some DANCES, including that one; they instantly recognized the tune! I'll ask John Krumm about the other one. \+++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" ++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) +++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:34:26 -0400 "Mary K. Friday" writes: >Last year Jenny Beer wrote a dance and a tune (with words!) to go with >it (for Tanya Rotenberg and Ted Rudofker on the occasion of their >marriage). It's called "Surprise and Delight." If I remember aright, >Jenny said AFTER she wrote it, she realized the tune was a round -- >and >she and several compatriots sang it that way at the wedding dance >earlier this month. > >John Krumm called a square dance to a round (I think the dance was a >round, too -- memory's fading), last holiday season, I think. I loved >it, but some may have found it corny (and we all got to sing!). > >Mary Kay Friday >Washington, D.C. > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 05:48:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 04:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, sol weber wrote: > As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in dances the > MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward sentence!) > "Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my pink rounds book > (used by permission). Any others that fit that description? If so, where > may the music be obtained? Thanks. There's "Christchurch Bells," a 3-part round whose choreography and original music can be seen in Kate Van Winkle Keller's "The Playford Ball." (both tune & text) Very charming, music and dance-wise. > (And go see "The Truman Show". Great movie!) > I just saw it today. I agree! Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:47:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 13:51:24 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980625174818.FPOK6357-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > As many of you know, I sing lots of rounds. I'm interested in > dances the MUSIC for which are in round form. (Now THAT'S an awkward > sentence!) "Tallis Canon" I know about; in fact its music is IN my > pink rounds book (used by permission). Any others that fit that > description? If so, where may the music be obtained? Thanks. > > (And go see "The Truman Show". Great movie!) > > > \+++++Sol "Roundman" Weber --- "So many rounds, so little time" > ++++++25-14 37th St, Astoria, NY 11103; 718-278-4389 (after 11am) > +++++Urgent message? If no immediate response, please phone. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call > Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Red House is a round. Art ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:48:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:54:30 -0700 From: patnash-AT- harborside.com Subject: Re: vacation To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3592C716.4515-AT- harborside.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199803221702_MC2-3799-58DC-AT- compuserve.com> SET NOMAIL ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:52:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:47:13 -0400 From: solweber-AT- juno.com (sol weber) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: SPELLING QUESTION To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980625.184714.3678.6.solweber-AT- juno.com> Excuse this not being English Dance related, but I'm writing an important letter and need the correct trans-literated English spelling for the Russian dance, the 'kazotsky', if any such 'correct' spelling exists. (That dance, of course, is the one with the squat thrusts and folded arms.) Thanks. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:21:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:22:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SPELLING QUESTION To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, sol weber wrote: > > Excuse this not being English Dance related, but I'm writing an important > letter and need the correct trans-literated English spelling for the > Russian dance, the 'kazotsky', if any such 'correct' spelling exists. > (That dance, of course, is the one with the squat thrusts and folded > arms.) Thanks. As I recall, Papshvily (ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN) refers to "dancing a kazatska". Of course, "correct" transcriptions from another alphabet is a dubious question, as I tried to point out back when onliners kept asking for a nonexistent "correct spelling" of Khadaffi. Who decides what is "correct"? Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:11:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:01:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SPELLING QUESTION - no ECD content whatsoever To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980626130140.17116.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---sol weber wrote: > > Excuse this not being English Dance related, but I'm writing an important > letter and need the correct trans-literated English spelling for the > Russian dance, the 'kazotsky', if any such 'correct' spelling exists. > (That dance, of course, is the one with the squat thrusts and folded > arms.) Thanks. C'mon Sol, you can't do that to us. What kind of important letter is this that you are writing that has to have the correct spelling for the kazotsky? Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:14:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:14:24 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: REALLY round dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980626081424.a03-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> "Oh How Lovely is the Evening" is a sung AND danced round. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:33:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:35:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SPELLING QUESTION To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, sol weber wrote: > > Excuse this not being English Dance related, but I'm writing an important > letter and need the correct trans-literated English spelling for the > Russian dance, the 'kazotsky', if any such 'correct' spelling exists. > (That dance, of course, is the one with the squat thrusts and folded > arms.) Thanks. Sol, a good place to start would be with the Russian word itself -- then choose (or perhaps, if the letter is to a journal or some similar publication, they already have chosen for you) one of the conventional transliteration schemes for expressing Russian words in English; a library should be able to help you there. My understanding of the proceass is that the goal is to represent the sound of the word as accurately as possible in the new representation. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:48:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:49:31 -0400 (EDT) From: JBGrun-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SPELLING QUESTION To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Sol. I think Kazatski is correct. (The "ah" sound in Russian would never be spelled with in "o" but alway an "a".) Whether the ending is "a" or "i" probably depends on usage. (I must have dredged that up from my childhood.) Judy Grunbergski ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 07:14:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:16:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: SPELLING QUESTION To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Sol, Just talked to someone from the Slavic Languages department here (U of Michigan), who says that it really depends on the context in Russian from which it is taken -- if it is an adjective modifying "dance" (which it seems it most probably is, i.e. "Cossack dance"), then the ending would be determined by the word "dance" and would probably be transliterated as -ii, giving kazatskii. If it modified "song", it would end up being "kazatskij" in the more formal linguistic style of transliteration. But if it is the name of a composition by a specific choreographer rather than a type of dance that the word means, then it would not be subject to these rules. Don't know if this helps, or complicates things further. Good luck! Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:25:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:26:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: cossacks To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, Sol Weber is referring to the "Cossack" dance. That's what "kaz..." means. Russian is "kazak." Naturally, Ukrainian (and historically large parts of the Cossack home turf are in Ukraine) spells it "kozak." Originally borrowed from Turkish, meaning something like "bandit," "freebooter," or "contra dance caller." The Library of Congress transliteration system, extremely widely used in this country and a more-or-less acceptable academic standard, spells it "kazatskii" in the Russian translation. (Ukrainian, I think, would be "kozatskyi.") Right, that's two "i's", the "i" and the "short i", pronounced "eeeeeeee." Stress, however, on the middle syllable, so it's kah-ZAHTS-keee. Had enough? it's quite a long way from Rovna Guberniia... Steve Corrsin (likely original spellings of family name would be Korsun, Ukraine, or Korczyn, Poland, but who knows?) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:28:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 14:29:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Dance Teachers' Workshop To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199806261829.OAA06637-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Come to New York City on Columbus Day Weekend, October 9-11, 1998, for a special English Country Dance Teachers' Weekend led by Bruce Hamilton and sponsored by Country Dance*New York. Intended to sharpen and enhance the skills of people actively leading English country dances, the workshop is limited to 8 people. While priority will be given to apprentices and teachers from the New York area, others are most welcome, and hospitality will be available. Friday evening (10/9) workshops participants will meet for supper and an orientation session with Bruce, after which he will lead a public dance for As Many As Will. Saturday (10/10, 9:00am-4:00pm) we'll have a discussion of the fine points of English country dance leadership, practice calling, and feedback. That evening workshop participants will lead a public dance, preceded by an introductory workshop led by Bruce. On Sunday (10/11), we'll have feedback on Saturday night's dance, further discussion and brunch. The workshop is $85, including the two dances and four meals: Friday supper, Saturday continental breakfast and lunch, and Sunday brunch. Some scholarship aid is available. If you would like to attend, please contact me to reserve a place: Sharon Green 175 Ninth Avenue New York NY 10011 212-741-5192 mls-AT- panix.com Much love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:11:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 01:12:26 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD image To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <274b7171.3595d0bb-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following was posted on the Fiddle-L list, in response to a query about ECD fiddle style. It may be interesting to see a non-ECD'er's opinion of us and what we do, as I suspect the opinion is rather widespread. Carl Friedman <> ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 14:56:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 17:57:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Margaret's Waltz To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some time back Sol Weber mentioned the question of Copyright for Margaret's Waltz (and the follow-on tune Farewell to Devon). I asked Brenda Godrich about this, as Marjorie Fennessy told me that Brenda had gone very deeply into this one some years ago. The definitive answer is that the PRS (Performing Right Society) ruled categorically that the copyright belongs to EFDSS, and to no- one else. If anyone comes across use of this one and cares to make it known to the PRS (or its local equivalent), the EFDSS should benefit by receiving the Royalties, for which it would be very grateful. Nicolas Broadbridge, Lanark, Scotland. (National Council Member EFDSS). ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 18:01:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:05:35 +0600 From: Christine Robb Subject: Cottey House/Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199806290102.VAA24880-AT- smtp.interlog.com> A couple of weeks ago now, I organized a night of ECD in the park to live music. I selected dances that we don't have recorded music for. This made preparation and subsequent analysis somewhat difficult. However, the dances all went well except for Cottey House. I used the choreography by Keller and Shimer, and it flowed well enough, but was a bit too long for people to remember in this setting. The real problem though was the music. Somehow the music did not work for us. What I'm wondering, since I don't have the resources to try it at home, is whether anyone else has had a similar problem with this dance, or whether we just had bad luck that night? The Pinewoods question is about public transportation. I've got the names and prices of the various taxis/buses/vans that go from Boston to Pinewoods from a web page, and would like to hear of any recommendations that people might have. Also, it says to get in touch with 'us' to possibly combine riders and fares, but it doesn't say who the 'us' is. Would I be correct in assuming the CDSS office? And do I just call them again at the end of the week to pick me up? Thanks. Christine cedar-AT- interlog.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 18:44:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:44:56 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD image To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806282145_MC2-5198-A182-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments of a traditional fiddler on FIDDLE-L list as quoted by Carl Friedman: ><<"There ARE traditional fiddle styles in England! However, whether thes= e are appropriate to what seems to be known as English Country Dance in North America is a matter of opinion. ECD - over here we call it Playford - has= little in common with the traditional social dances, and tends to be danc= ed by increasingly narrow-minded groups of individuals who see themselves as so= me form of elite. The music tends to be played using c19 classical/romantic violin techniques, and to my ears and feet, is usually quite undanceable.= " < With the exception of the "increasingly narrow-minded" bit, s/he's right.= "Playford" dancing and music has as much to do with "traditional fiddle styles in England" as ballroom dancing to Glenn Miller's band has to do with Southern Mountain square dancing. ><<"Having said that, I do occasionally play for Playford (in a social dance environment with English Civil War re-enaction societies) using the traditional fiddle style I grew-up with - I'm not a violinist! My band fo= r these occasions (Mistress Swallocks and her Bande of Musicke) consists of= fiddle, c17 oboe, cittern, and serphent/sackbut and makes a point of playing this old music in as funky a manner as possible. " < An amusing but misguided effort, as we've discussed before (though I'd lo= ve to hear that band). Playford ain't folk... sorry, Cecil. = Gene Murrow EC Dancer, Musician, Caller and curmudgeon wannabe... = ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 04:28:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 07:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: SallenNic-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Cottey House/Pinewoods To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <50fc9a8c.35977a8e-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'd be interested to know what problems were experienced with Cottey House. I haven't done it for a good many years (maybe thirty) but it is a very straightforward dance with nothing particularly awkward about it. It does need a fairly strong fiddler to "make the tune go", though. Nicolas Broadbridge. Scotland. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:09:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 11:09:51 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing in NYC To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199806291110_MC2-51A3-82C9-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will be in New York City from Thursday July 23 to Saturday the 25th. If= there is any dancing (either English or Scottish CD) in the area either Thursday or Friday evening I would appreciate the information. Don't both= er telling me about the Columbia County dance on Saturday-I already know and= intend to take it in on my way home. Thanks in advance and reply either o= n the list or directly (preferred). Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:39:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 29 Jun 1998 12:43:55 -0005 From: Arthur Munisteri Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD image To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980629164056.KAMV12631-AT- newmicronpc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Gene, are you agreeing with the comments about narrow-minded individuals and undanceability? It sounds to me as though Carl's correspondent is talking about English ECDers, not North Americans, so I prefer to believe that if s/he spent some time here, his/her sociological opinion might very well change; in fact, if s/he heard the way Gene and his ilk play, maybe the opinion on danceability might change too. > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 21:44:56 -0400 > From: Gene Murrow > Subject: ECD image > To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" > Reply-to: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > America is a matter o