Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:37:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:37:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: contry dance weekend with John Ramsay in Illinois To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804061537.KAA07026-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> A C O U N T R Y D A N C E W E E K E N D With John Ramsay April 17-19, 1998 Champaign-Urbana, Illinois Friday, April 17 ---------------- Urbana Country Dancers' Contra Dance Phillip's Recreation Center, 505 W. Stoughton, Urbana Caller: Jonathan Sivier Band: The Indian Creek Delta Boys Time: 8:00 - 11:00 Admission: $5.00 Saturday, April 18 ------------------ Country Dance Workshops lead by John Ramsay and Berni Meyer Featuring American, English and Danish dances Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana music by members of the Flatland Consort Admission: $2.00/workshop 10:00 - 12:00 : Country Dance as a Social Reflection, an introductory level experience - suitable for beginners and of interest to dancers of all experience levels 2:00 - 4:00 : Country Dancing: Style, Carriage, and Phrasing - improve your dancing skills Evening Dance lead by John Ramsay Illini Student Union, Room 314, 1401 W. Green, Urbana Band: The Flatland Consort Time: 8:00 - 11:00 Admission: $5.00 Sunday, April 19 ---------------- Sunday Brunch with music and dance - details available at Saturday events John Ramsay is the former director of the Berea College Country Dancers, a troupe of college students performing Anglo-American dances. Under his direction, from 1974 to 1995, they toured the world dancing in festivals all around the globe. John specializes in several forms of folk dance; English Country, Contra, Appalachian, Morris and Danish. He has taught college level courses in international folk dance and has written concerning the ways in which folk dances reflect their cultures. He is interested in using dance as experiential education. John is now retired and lives in St. Louis with his wife Berni Meyer. There they are members of the St. Louis English Country Dancers and enjoy dancing and teaching others about country dance. Sponsored by the Central Illinois English Country Dancers, the Illini Folk Dance Society and the Urbana Country Dancers For more information contact: Jonathan Sivier - home: 217/359-8225 work: 217/244-1923 Jane Hobgood - 217/328-1708 or check the webpage at: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/weekend.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 10:47:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:48:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pinewoods session To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Comrades, just got the Pinewoods flier and note with interest that there is an "English Dance Teachers' Workshop" entire week. The mind reels. (Whether the rest does is an open question.) Of course I hope some of my personal favorite techniques will be brought up. Please keep in mind that I have no ambition ever to be a teacher or caller. No special order of favorite ECD teacher tricks: Quickly talk through the dance, once, and then stand silently through the whole thing no matter how confused people get; Start the program with the most difficult dance in your teaching repertoire and then make them go through it till they get it right; Look disgusted and mutter, not quite sotta voce, "I thought the dancers here in ______ were better" (alternative: "The dancers in ______ picked it up much faster"); Keep shuffling through your notecards, muttering, "That can't be right"; Chat with the musicians or the people waiting out at the top of the set (those of us who ever have waited tables for a living know quite a few variations on this); and special for contras: start the program with a 20 minute dance, and when it concludes, instruct everyone to stay where they are and not to change partners. This is especially fun for the people who come in 2 minutes late. Perhaps there could be a special class... Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:28:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:28:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: FWD: English Dance Week on St. Croix, Feb 9-16, 1999 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IVJRXJSPLC9AUCY4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Forwarded from George Marshall ---------------------------------------------- Dear English dancer, I've organized an "American" dance week featuring contra and square dancing in the Caribbean on St. Croix, USVI for the past four years. It has been a very successful event that everyone who has participated has really enjoyed. In 1999 I am producing a new week with a focus on English Country dance. The Tropical Dance Vacation English week is scheduled for February 9-16 with Bare Necessities providing the music, Brad Foster and Bruce Hamilton leading the dances. The Contra/square week will run from February 18-25 with Wild Asparagus, The Clayfoot Strutters, and Nightingale. George Marshall and Kathy Anderson will be calling the dances. If you would like more information on either of the dance weeks please check out the web site or send me a message. Best regards, George Marshall Tropical Dance Vacation PO Box 602 Belchertown, MA 01007 413-323-9604 gmarshal-AT- tiac.net http://www.he.net/~bmd/TDV.99.html ---------------------------------------------- =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 13:55:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 16:45:55 -0400 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: FWD: English Dance Week on St. Croix, Feb 9-16, 1999 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804062054.QAA11277-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:28 PM 4/6/98 , you wrote: > >Forwarded from George Marshall > >---------------------------------------------- > >Dear English dancer, . . >really enjoyed. In 1999 I am producing a new week with a focus on English >Country dance. The Tropical Dance Vacation English week is scheduled for >February 9-16 with Bare Necessities providing the music, Brad Foster and >Bruce Hamilton leading the dances. Hi, George: A quick question: I've considered attending the dances in the Caribbean in the past but cost has been a major factor, especially when one folds-in airfare. In your experience, what sorts of airfares have people been able to find from the east coast, e.g., DC? When I last looked, since Feb seems to be 'in-season,' they were quite high for my pocketbook. Thanks, and, good luck with your venture. -- Roger __ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer - _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com ________ (/_______________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 15:41:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 17:44:19 +0000 From: Mary E Jones Subject: Re: FWD: English Dance Week on St. Croix, Feb 9-16, 1999 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <35291472.C88-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199804062054.QAA11277-AT- ns.kreative.net> > >Forwarded from George Marshall > > > >---------------------------------------------- > > > >Dear English dancer, > . > . > >really enjoyed. In 1999 I am producing a new week with a focus on English > >Country dance. The Tropical Dance Vacation English week is scheduled for > >February 9-16 with Bare Necessities providing the music, Brad Foster and > >Bruce Hamilton leading the dances. Wouldn't you know that conflicts with the Dance Flurry in Saratoga...! Rats!!! Especially if I could afford it. Mary Jones, who gets to dance English with George's dad all the time Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 10:52:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:52:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: what's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Comrades, Inquiring minds want to know: why are contras led by callers, and country dances by teachers? Is this simply part of the remorseless struggle for power and prestige that pervades the field, or is there a more concrete reason? thanks Steve Corrsin PS I have absolutely no not never ambition to be either a caller, or a teacher. You all can rest easy. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 11:29:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:29:55 -0400 From: Maryn McKenna Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: any Jane Austen-related ECD interest still? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" last year there were several discussions about the enormous bloom of interest in ECD in NYC thanks to the NPR coverage (centered around the Austen evening) and the NYT piece (which used a still from "Emma" as its cover art), and about whether other ECD groups could use Austenmania to draw new members. in case anyone's still trying that route, i've just become aware of a set of heavily used pages-n-links aimed at/maintained by Austenomanes (via my sister, who doesn't dance but is mad for Miss A.). i notice that at least one lists some Austen-related dance - a Regency ball in the UK. there's no mention of ECD, though, so if any group out there wants to publicise an Austen evening or regular dance, might be worth a try. to investigate, start at www.pemberley.com and go from there. maryn -+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+- M.A.J. McKenna mmckenna-AT- ajc.com The Atlanta Journal-Constitution mmckenna-AT- mindspring.com 72 Marietta St. NW, 8th floor 404.526.5987 vox Atlanta GA 30303 USA 404.526.5509 fax Standard disclaimers apply. 1.800.756.3328 x5987 -+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+-+=+- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 12:44:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:44:37 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: what's in a name? To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199804081544_MC2-395D-4599-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve et al: A little clarification and some history from a dancer of altogether too many years experience. When I started dancing, which was in the country i= n the late 1930's, the callers did just that-they CALLED! Most of them wouldn't have known how to teach a dance if you begged them. The dancers learned by being shoved through the dances until they made the connection= between what they were doing and what that guy or gal up on the platform was saying. It was the ability to call well, coordinating the calls with the music (calling so that the last word of the call fell just before the= music for that phrase of the dance, or knowing how to use singing calls) that counted. That went for old time square dances, traditional contra dances and Lloyd Shaw's Cowboy dances where it was expected that the danc= e would be called all the way through. Conversely "country dance" leaders or teachers usually came out of the fo= lk dance and crafts tradition and often worked with poeple who had never don= e this sort of thing before and either had to or expected to be" taught". Also the vocabulary of English or Scottish Country dance was complex enou= gh and varied enough from the American tradition to need teaching. Additionally the musical structure, particularly in English Country dancing, is more complex and it is much more satisfying dancing "to the music" than "to the call" which means that it pays to learn the dance in advance rather than having it called while dancing. I would add the comment that I often find that many "Callers" don't know how to teach and that, all to often, teachers (or callers) don't know how= to "call" well-unfortunately. Ben Stein Burlington, Vt USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:52:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:51:38 -0700 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: what's in a name? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Comrades, > >Inquiring minds want to know: why are contras led by callers, and country >dances by teachers? > >Is this simply part of the remorseless struggle for power and prestige >that pervades the field, or is there a more concrete reason? Fellow dancers, "Generalisations are always untrue" - discuss. Those who call at our ECD group call themselves callers, not teachers. We avoid a formal, classroom-like atmosphere. We do teach, where appropriate, but we keep it low key. The remorseless struggle here is between caller and band - more teaching time means less playing time for the band! :-) Emma Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112 phone (801) 585-9425, fax (801) 581-4668 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 14:34:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:34:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: what's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804082134.QAA25704-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> It seems to me there is a continuum of dance types and the title of the people leading them. For example: dance type - square contra ECD folk dance -----------------|---------|--------|---------| leader title - caller......................teacher It seems as well that there are different expectations in contra dance and ECD. Contra dancers are not expected to know the dances in advance. So there is always a walkthrough to teach the dance and then the caller prompts it initially to get things rolling. In ECD there seems to be a goal of having the dancers know the dances so that no teaching/prompting is needed. While this doesn't happen very often none-the-less it seems to be an unstated objective. While it is possible for an experienced dancer to pick up ECD dances with a quick walk through as in contra dance, it seems much less likely that the average dancer could do so successfully. This is especially true with the more complex dances and those not in duple minor formation. When leading duple minor dances (and triple minors as well) I go about it much as I would when calling a contra dance. I do a walkthrough of the dance, usually twice, and then prompt the dance initially with the goal of dropping out as soon as the dancers seem to have it so they can just dance and enjoy the music. Set dances many times are more difficult to prompt (i.e. B1 in Prince William) and since they will only be done a couple of times (2 or 3) more teaching is needed so that the dancers can get the dance with less prompting the first time through and none (hopefully) the next time. So in ECD there is more teaching and less calling than in contra dance. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 15:11:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 18:07:48 -0400 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: what's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Stephen D Corrsin Message-ID: <000CC8F1.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Snip] "Comrades, I have absolutely no not never ambition to be either a caller, or a teacher". Steve Corrsin -------------------------------------- Doth our good fellow perhaps protest too much? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 00:54:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 00:44:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: what's in a name? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > Inquiring minds want to know: why are contras led by callers, and country > dances by teachers? > > Is this simply part of the remorseless struggle for power and prestige > that pervades the field, or is there a more concrete reason? I suspect this is a regional question; in the old New England contra dance books I've seen, the person making all the noise is called a "leader" rather than a "caller", but in the midwest (presumably influenced by square dance terminology) we've always called them "callers", and the usage seems to have spread nationwide. At least in St. Louis, the people doing the same stuff at English are also called "callers", except sometimes in fliers, where they are occasionally called "dance leaders". Perhaps this calls for an inquiry to "D.A.R.E" (Dictionary of American Regional English). Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:11:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:11:52 -0500 (EST) From: GAFF-AT- neu.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IVS76VLBJ68ZK8UO-AT- neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Here's an idea that I'd like the list's reaction to: About a month ago the Boston Centre put out some informal feelers for ideas for projects that would support country dancers. Dan Pearl suggested we produce a musical companion to Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes. This would be a collection of CDs which would contain recordings of all of the dance music in Peter's book. These would be made available at wholesale prices through our various national dance organizations. The plan would be for Bare Necessities to record the tunes in the same style that they are played at our regular Wednesday night dance; Helene Cornelius would supervise the final mixing to ensure danceability. I was excited about the idea because it means that any group with a CD player, and access to a hall could put on a weekly dance with high quality, varied music. It would also be a boon to people in international folkdancing, because there are a lot of good country dances without a recording for the accompanying tune. We are looking into the feasibility of the plan in some detail now, but since the investment would be substantial, it would be nice to know that the project enjoyed widespread support before we committed ourselves. Best, Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:28:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:28:49 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, GAFF-AT- neu.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >a musical companion to > Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes. >This would be a collection of CDs which would >contain recordings of all of the dance music in >Peter's book. These would be made available at >wholesale prices through our various national >dance organizations. The plan would be for >Bare Necessities to record the tunes in the same style > that they are played at our regular Wednesday night dance; >Helene Cornelius would supervise the final mixing to ensure danceability. YES! For quite awhile, I have been lobbying Peter for a set of CD's that cover the ECD repetory. YES! YES! YES! Dare I add, YES!!!!!!! Mary Beth <-- told you so, Peter! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 11:34:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:36:33 +0000 From: Mary E Jones Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3530C360.52DF-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Mary Beth Goodman wrote: > > YES! For quite awhile, I have been lobbying Peter for a set of CD's that > cover the ECD repetory. > > YES! YES! YES! > > Dare I add, > > YES!!!!!!! > > Mary Beth <-- told you so, Peter! Who could possibly NOT want such a treasure? Especially those of us who are not musicians but have to lean on the talents of one of our musician friends whose initials are: Joyce Crouch! Mary (Help me, Joyce!) Jones Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:47:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:54:08 -0700 From: Pettengill Family Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <353129F0.6A22-AT- proaxis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01IVS76VLBJ68ZK8UO-AT- neu.edu> This is a WONDERFUL idea. I have been relying on tapes/records/CDs and this would be an incredible resource for me. I was getting desperate enough to consider using my computer, with a MIDI keyboard and software ... this would be far better (both sound and time wise) ... don > > We are looking into the feasibility of the plan > in some detail now, but since the investment > would be substantial, it would be nice to know > that the project enjoyed widespread support > before we committed ourselves. > > Best, > Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 15:09:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 18:09:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel J. Walkowitz" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804122209.SAA27770-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Great idea. Danny Walkowitz At 01:11 PM 4/12/98 -0500, you wrote: >Here's an idea that I'd like the list's reaction to: > > >About a month ago the Boston Centre put out > some informal feelers for ideas for projects >that would support country dancers. Dan Pearl >suggested we produce a musical companion to > Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes. >This would be a collection of CDs which would >contain recordings of all of the dance music in >Peter's book. These would be made available at >wholesale prices through our various national >dance organizations. The plan would be for >Bare Necessities to record the tunes in the same style > that they are played at our regular Wednesday night dance; >Helene Cornelius would supervise the final mixing to ensure danceability. > >I was excited about the idea because it means >that any group with a CD player, and access to > a hall could put on a weekly dance with high quality, > varied music. It would also be a boon to people in > international folkdancing, because there are a lot >of good country dances without a recording for > the accompanying tune. > >We are looking into the feasibility of the plan >in some detail now, but since the investment >would be substantial, it would be nice to know >that the project enjoyed widespread support >before we committed ourselves. > >Best, > Terry Gaffney > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 21:47:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 20:53:23 -0800 From: patnash-AT- harborside.com Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <35319A43.66D1-AT- harborside.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01IVS76VLBJ68ZK8UO-AT- neu.edu> Great Idea! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 05:32:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 07:30:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804131130.HAA17503-AT- sca.UWaterloo.CA> Content-Type: text > suggested we produce a musical companion to > Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes. > This would be a collection of CDs which would Nice idea. CDs are pretty cheap to make. It is easy to buy blanks for $3 CDn each and the price seems to keep on falling. I would not be surprised to find that bulk qualtities can be had for $2US each. People with burners are poping up everywhere and so they can make their own CDs. I've been distributing SCA dance music (first edition Playford and earlier) via the web and even have some music available via the web (using Real Audio compression). I'd suggest digitizing the music and making it available both in CDs and via the web. Make the CD covers (Postscript files) available via the web as well. I'd be happy to distribute the music at the dances that I get to and at the localish ECD groups (London, Ottawa Canada). If a web page would be usefull I could provide something (assuming that this is non-commerical ... ect.). - Eric http://sca.uwaterloo.ca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 06:14:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:14:44 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980413081444.1ad3-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Is there some way we could update Peter Rogers index? That would save the compiler an enormous amount of work. Forbes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 18:08:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:03:11 -0400 From: solweber-AT- juno.com (sol weber) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New member on list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980413.210313.3558.10.solweber-AT- juno.com> Here I am, finally on this list I keep hearing about. Hello to all my dancing friends (aned to the curmudgeons, too). A request for help -- I'm putting together a dance, and it would be very useful to have a list of common figures and steps (and uncommon ones, too) to guide me. (Yes, I know you don't just throw figures together, that much artistry is required; I will do my best). A list of figures would be much appreciated at this point, and also info on articles and books ABOUT dance composing, in the event I discover I really need lots MORE help. Thanks. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 02:24:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:24:35 +0000 (BRITAIN) From: HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New member on list To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IVUTVDREFM0019Y0-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> it would >> be very useful to have a list of common figures and steps (and uncommon >> ones, too) to guide me. Try http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/round/dances/elements.htm (warning -- it is 55K long) Hugh Stewart Cambridge UK ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 06:49:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:49:23 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199804140949_MC2-39D7-449D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh wow!! Count me in! A great excuse to buy a good CD player. Have been somewhat dependent on tapes 'till now. By the way, a wee story. Some years ago may wife Dot was teaching hand-spinning and off loom weaving and I was teaching comparitive country= dance (American, English, a little Scottish and just a touch of Irish Cel= i Dance) at an Elder Hostel at Craftsbury, Vt. (the third course was cross country skiing). It was our second year. On Thursday the manager came to = me an said that the owner had some friends who played for country dancing coming up for the weekend and wondered if I could use them for our final dance on Friday evening. I replied that it depended on their repertory (after all "country dance" covers a wide teritory). Well on Friday he cam= e to me about 3:00 PM and said that they had arrived and told me what room they were in. I was stunned to walk in and find Peter Barnes and friends.= Needless to say they filled the bill and I was absolutely thrilled to hav= e them play for my group of seniors-who really didn't realize just how luck= y they were! Ben Stein Burlington Vt USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:39:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:36:56 -0400 From: pam-AT- tedcrane.com (Pamela Goddard) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <98041411365646-AT- tedcrane.com> Ben, what a charming story about Peter Barnes et. al. being surprise musicians for your Elder Hostel weekend in VT! I was particularly struck by the topics you and your wife were teaching. I'm new to discussion groups. I've just signed onto two - this one, and fibernet for spinners & weavers. It's nice to know that my combination of interests is shared by others. Happy dancing - Pamela Goddard ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:26:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:24:55 -0400 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: New member on list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980414.142506.3974.2.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> References: <01IVUTVDREFM0019Y0-AT- sdl.ug.eds.com> I checked out this site and it was very useful. If anyone else out there knows of any other such sites could you pleas send the URL's Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:24:35 +0000 (BRITAIN) HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM writes: >>> it would >>> be very useful to have a list of common figures and steps (and >uncommon >>> ones, too) to guide me. > >Try http://www.cam.ac.uk/CambUniv/Societies/round/dances/elements.htm >(warning -- it is 55K long) > >Hugh Stewart >Cambridge UK > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:42:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 14:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: fwd from Albert Blank: Barnes/Rogers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IVV2YCCB329AUCY4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII From: IN%"fandango-AT- sprintmail.com" 14-APR-1998 14:38:13.12 -- Albert A. Blank 102 Loring Avenue, Pelham, NY 10803-2014 Tel. 914 738-7678. e-mail: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com ******* Terry Gaffney's project to record all of Barnes by Bare Necessities on CD is a wonderful idea. Twenty four years ago CDSS was very unwilling to record ANY music for dance. Fortunately, John Hodgkin was willing to indulge this whimsy by arranging financial sponsorship for it by interested dancers and leaders. The idea of a sponsored publication has since been tried successfully on a number of CDSS recording projects and by several private ones. I'm sure many people would be happy to become sponsors. Can we get the ball rolling on this? An aside: Under the same subject heading, John Forbes mentions updating the Peter Rogers's country dance index. I know Neil Kelley has been working mightily to do just that. The current stage of that project must be very advanced. =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:32:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 15:32:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IVV32ONKCK9AUCY4-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Terry Gaffney wrote: >Here's an idea that I'd like the list's reaction to: >About a month ago the Boston Centre put out > some informal feelers for ideas for projects >that would support country dancers. Dan Pearl >suggested we produce a musical companion to > Peter Barnes book of country dance tunes. >This would be a collection of CDs which would >contain recordings of all of the dance music in >Peter's book. These would be made available at >wholesale prices through our various national >dance organizations. The plan would be for >Bare Necessities to record the tunes in the same style > that they are played at our regular Wednesday night dance; >Helene Cornelius would supervise the final mixing to ensure danceability. I have some mixed reactions. In broad outline, I think this is a swell idea, and I'd probably buy some of the CDs, although I'd hope never to have to use them. (Except perhaps when, as an extremely-amateur recorder player I can't suss out a tune from the dots and want to hear how it sounds.) I see various implementation problems, which you may well already be considering. Some of the tunes in Barnes are copyright, so rights would have to be sought and possibly royalty payments arranged, bringing up a level of ongoing hassle that will be around forever. (I mean, tracking sales and paying royalties, which will be an issue as long as you're selling the CDs.) Would BN be willing to accept flat fees for their efforts and give up performance royalties? If not, does Boston Centre have the bookkeeping infrastructure to take care of this? Have you considered just how much studio time it's going to take to get dance-length versions of 430 tunes, and how much it's going to cost? As described, this is a huge and expensive project, both in money and time, and you oughtn't to embark on it without a realistic assessment of your capabilities, and a determination that volunteer time spent on it won't be at the expense of your ongoing dance activities. If the rights and royalties questions aren't resolved properly, you risk annoying a lot of your friends. I'm not entirely comfortable with anointing Bare Necessities, wonderful as they are, as the stylistic arbiter of ECD music. If CDSS were proposing this project, I would object to it, and suggest having some of the recordings done by other bands, both to avoid so anointing BN and to give other people a chance. Boston Centre, may, of course, do whatever it likes, and it makes sense for you to want to use your best local band. (I'd be concerned about tempi and interpretation, too, if CDSS were doing it, but Boston Centre presumably has a preferred tempo for each dance, and I infer that this decision would be in Helene's capable hands.) [BN, wonderful as they are, aren't necessarily the first people I'd think of if I were putting together an evening of English barn dancing, and yet a bunch of those tunes are in Barnes. Would it make more sense to sort out tunes thematically and get the most appropriate musicians for that theme? Even if you stick with BN for everything, it might make sense to sort actual favorites out and record them first.] It should be noted that the contents of Barnes were somewhat arbitrarily chosen, and to take it as a Bible of tunes worth recording is an idea that needs some more examination. Quite a few cool dances aren't in there; a number of deservedly-obscure dances are. Anything produced since 1995 won't be there, no matter how good it is. If you're really doing this, why not start with the tunes from _The Playford Ball_? That would be extremely handy for IFD people and others who don't want to have to build up a large library of books for which only a few of the tunes are recorded -- as would be the case with trying to use the Fried Herman dances in Barnes -- since they could have one book with clear directions and one set of CDs. That's 102 tunes, all of which are in Barnes so it's still part of your project, and all of which predate copyright so you don't have rights clearances to start with. Furthermore, that's all stuff BN plays beautifully. I'd think the connection would enable you to sell more of the CDs and CDSS to sell more copies of the book. Anyway, good luck, and please let us know how this works out. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 01:04:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 04:04:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think it also makes far more sense to have a companion recording to the Keller book The Playford Ball. As was pointed out, there's about a third less tunes, all copyright-free, and all are good choices. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:28:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 08:28:37 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980415082837.859-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Alan Winston raises a number of important ideas re: the recording project. Here is another, a chant I've been intoning for any number of years. Could we have a number of different groups involved, so that tunes (and their dances) from reasonably identified time periods be recorded in the style of that period. That is, the period of the dance which may have occurred some time after early versions of the tune were available in sources. For example, could we have "Sellengers Round" done in the style of 1650, when the dance was published by Playford, rather than the style of the late 16th century when it appeared in the Fitzwilliam Virginal Book (I'm away from sources here, so be kind to my spellings.) My complaint regarding 'period-style' performances of, say, the Playford- published dance tunes is that they are often done in a late 16th century performance practice. The approach should be from the mid 17th century and onward per the dance. And I believe that 20th century tunes for Playford-style dances should be performed in 20th century style. Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 06:29:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:29:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII While the idea of having Bare Necessities record all of the tunes in the Barnes Book of English Country Dances in the manner that they are done in Boston is one that would serve small groups which don't have access to a band, and while I dearly love the members of Bare Necessities and the wonderful music that they produce, I feel that the small groups, and the larger ECD community as well, would benefit even more if the job of recording these tunes was shared among as many excellent bands as wished to participate in the project. I feel that all of the musicians that we enjoy and love to dance to deserve to share in the project, and deserve the wide exposure that this kind of project would give, and I think it would be very good for the areas where ECD music isn't commonly heard to have a wide sampling of the many excellent bands and musicians who play ECD music. I also worry a bit that this would reduce the incentive for encouraging the creation and maturation of local bands, which I feel is a very important part of the effort to build interest in ECD. It feels a bit like we might be starting down a path similar to that taken by club or western squares, by establishing what might become a de facto "standard" for how things are to be done, and I would be sorry to see things go in that direction. I think it would be *very* useful to have a companion book of dance instructions to go with the Barnes book. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:32:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 09:30:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford tunes -was Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804151330.JAA01209-AT- sca.UWaterloo.CA> Content-Type: text Dawn wrote: > I think it also makes far more sense to have a companion recording to the > Keller book The Playford Ball. As was pointed out, there's about a third > less tunes, all copyright-free, and all are good choices. Yes the tunes are copyright free; but arrangements aren't! Various Playford dances are danced in the SCA and we have freely copyable tapes (assuming not-for-profit use, educational use ...) and I'm releasing several on CD (check http://sca.uwaterloo.ca). However, there are various styles. I have about 108 Playfordish arrangements from a SCAdian arranger (Lady Phaedria) although she does not like her own work because it was not done in they style of that period. So she is re-doing her work now. Various people are doing arrangements in a period style for period instruments. In the SCA we have bands that use period instruments; but they are not that common yet and getting recordings has not yet happened. Commericial musicians with such instruments are not likely to be recorded for free-to-distribute purposes; or so it always seems. More and more music projects (on CD) seem to be sprouting up in the SCA. But most are now aiming towards first edition Playford and earlier. Not many are freely distributable since they often come with a book that documents the reconstruction of the dances, musical arrangements .... There is always an electronic synth version of the music and various people are working on getting samples of period instruments to use for synths. Having worked with synths I think that they are fine and dandy but there is nothing like live musicians with real instruments. - Eric Praetzel ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:33:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:11:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > I see various implementation problems, which you may well already be > considering. Some of the tunes in Barnes are copyright, so > rights would have to be sought and possibly royalty payments arranged, bringing > up a level of ongoing hassle that will be around forever. (I mean, tracking > sales and paying royalties, which will be an issue as long as you're selling > the CDs.) There is an alternative way to handle this which avoids the hassle of tracking sales figures month-to-month, one which many musicians and writers use: if both the writers and record producers agree, royalties are paid when the disks are pressed, rather than as they are sold. So if you press 1000 disks, you send a check for -- is it still $69.50? -- to the author of the tune. No one loses, and everyone gains -- the writer gets the money up front, the producer only has to do the work of paying royalties when a new run of disks is pressed. Performance royalties are a much stickier mess; not only would the performers on the disks have royalties do, but so would the authors of any in-copyright tunes. Now, dance groups ought to be keeping lists of what they program anyway, and computers make it easy to keep track of what's played over a year, but it's a hassle. > Have you considered just > how much studio time it's going to take to get dance-length versions of 430 > tunes, and how much it's going to cost? Well, let's do some arithmetic. We'll make an unwarranted assumption -- that you're using someone like me, who records direct-to-DAT rather than via multitrack, and who charges $25/hr. Assuming with great optimism that the total recording and editing time per tune will be two hours (anyone with serious studio experience is already laughing hysterically), the cost for studio labor will be $21,500 -- not including tape costs, mastering time, etc.. And this is with the cheapest possible professional studio setup; multiply this number by a factor ranging from 4 to 10 for multitracking, and double the rates to about $50/hour. $172,000 is the low-end figure. Then, of course, you need to press the CDs. Let's say 18 discs will hold it all; assume $1,000 to press each disk. This totals $18,000. So just to cut the music and press it (never mind paying royalties, cover art designers, etc.) you're talking a *bare minimum* of about $40,000 (direct-to-2-track, no overdubs) or $200,000 (multi-track). Either tay, it's a lot of money -- and remember that the time estimates are optimistic. > I'm not entirely comfortable with anointing Bare Necessities, wonderful as they > are, as the stylistic arbiter of ECD music. If CDSS were proposing this > project, I would object to it, and suggest having some of the recordings done > by other bands, both to avoid so anointing BN and to give other people a > chance. Boston Centre, may, of course, do whatever it likes, and it makes > sense for you to want to use your best local band. (I'd be concerned about > tempi and interpretation, too, if CDSS were doing it, but Boston Centre > presumably has a preferred tempo for each dance, and I infer that this > decision would be in Helene's capable hands.) I share Alan's concern. In fact, I'd be concerned about anointing *anyone's* performance as the canonical one; folks around the USA (and also in the UK) have been working pretty hard to develop local and regional styles of playing these tunes, and I think a project like this might have the unintended effect of stifling localism. I can already hear the callers (or dancers) saying, "Stop -- you're not playing it like the recording!" Having something like this set up as THE way to play the tune, even if that is completely unintentional, is something I see as a potentially serious problem. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:39:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:29:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > And I believe that 20th century tunes for Playford-style dances should be > performed in 20th century style. Is that in the style of: Stravinsky? Glenn Miller? Vaughan Williams? Fairport Convention? Blind Willie Johnson? John Coltrane? Buddy Holly? Doc Watson? What *does* define twentieth-century style, anyway? If you mean the way 20th-century bands play Playford tunes, these range from the Bare Necessities sound to pastiches of 17th (and yes, 16th) century performance styles to a sound influenced by the British folk revival. It's been a busy hundred years. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 07:32:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:58:49 -0500 From: judy_gordon-AT- mcgraw-hill.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Musical Companion To Barnes To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804161432.AA03657-AT- interlock.mgh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To all: Copyright and other issues aside, if this project does move forward, on behalf of those who have not leaped into the most modern sound technology, could I suggest that a set of tapes also be made? I have no plans to buy a CD player in the immediate future, but would like to have access to a resource such as this. Yonina Gordon New York, NY ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:34:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:30:53 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Issuing Records/Books To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199804161133_MC2-3A18-DF22-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all - my first thought about the recording the contents of Peter Barnes' book was: GREAT!!! My second thought was: all those dances - and only one band? For dancing to BN live is a great pleasure, there ARE other interpretations and definitely other good bands. Thirdly: I like the idea of recording the 'Playford Ball' dances first, in part because of the non-existent copyright issue. There's a book that any teacher may be expected to use - and own. Fourthly: I'm voting AGAINST publishing a companion book to Peter's of dance descriptions for the time being. Much of the material is still in print, and many currently active dance devisers are selling their product for their own benefit. A compendium would deprive them of the rewards of their labor. In my many years of teaching ECD I have used anything from78 rpm shellac records with British Military Band renditions, a live recorder consort, those treasured British 45s (His Master's Voice) from the 60s, an electric organ, a Greek 'reading' band, impromptu country dance bands... If nothing else, there is great variety out there. And anyone who is part of the international folk dance world is pretty much dependent upon recordings! Why else do you think that Hole in the Wall, Sellenger's Round, and Picking up Sticks have 'crossed over'? _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:05:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:07:47 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804170403.AAA25347-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT After all the discussion of the evils of theme dances, when I found I was calling on April 15, I just couldn't resist the temptation. Especially, since I heard that theme dances are much more fun for callers than for dancers. After calling the April 15 theme dance, I have to agree. It was a lot of fun for the caller! Of course, I can't speak for the dancers. They were much too polite to complain. Instead, they hid their dissatisfaction by pretending to have a great time. Of course, an April 15 theme is fairly easy to assemble a good program around. I found I had a huge number of wonderful dances that fit the theme to pick from. The hard part was narrowing it down. It's amazing how many dances have absolutely nothing to do with taxes. Too bad the rest of life isn't that way! And so to the NY ball . . . Rich Galloway, (Still reeling from that annual American rite of passage.) ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:41:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:43:02 -0400 From: paul rosenberg Subject: Re: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "<" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199804170441.AAA10352-AT- Delta.capital.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So Rich, after all that build-up, could you tell us the names of the "tax-related" dances you called on April 15? The only one I can think of that I have called is Boston Tea Party. I just went through my worst year by far with taxes.....the flip side is my business made more than a profit than I ever imagined! I could use a bit of levity right now. Paul Rosenberg ---------- > From: Rich Galloway > To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU > Subject: Theme dances again > Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 8:07 PM > > After all the discussion of the evils of theme dances, when I found > I was calling on April 15, I just couldn't resist the temptation. > Especially, since I heard that theme dances are much more fun for > callers than for dancers. > > After calling the April 15 theme dance, I have to agree. It was a > lot of fun for the caller! Of course, I can't speak for the > dancers. They were much too polite to complain. Instead, they hid > their dissatisfaction by pretending to have a great time. > > Of course, an April 15 theme is fairly easy to assemble a good > program around. I found I had a huge number of wonderful dances that > fit the theme to pick from. The hard part was narrowing it down. > It's amazing how many dances have absolutely nothing to do with > taxes. Too bad the rest of life isn't that way! > > And so to the NY ball . . . > > Rich Galloway, > (Still reeling from that annual American rite of passage.) > > ==================================================== > Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD > ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:01:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IVYJ8RBTSE9AZMXH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII If I read Rich aright, his theme was "dances that have nothing to do with taxes." But if he lists his program we can entertain ourselves by pointing out tax connections he hadn't realized were there. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:42:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:22:01 +0200 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fw: A Musical Companion to Barnes To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <01bd6a03$cea35a20$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I took the liberty of passing on the costings estimate of this project to my son who has his own studio and produced the recently remastered CD of Dutch Comfort playing Pat Shaw and other dances (see NVS Website at http://www.iae.nl/users/antony/ ). His answer may be of interest to the list especially about copyright in the Netherlands. -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Heywood To: 'Antony Heywood' Date: Thursday, April 16, 1998 7:08 PM Subject: RE: A Musical Companion to Barnes >Could be interesting. What is your role in this? Or are you just >evesdropping via an email list? I would suggest the time estimates would be >about right for non-multitrack, depending on how prepared the band is. If >the band is well-prepared the rate of dances-per-hour or dance-per-day could >increase. There is probably no need to multitrack as dances are usually >well-structured and lead roles (solos) are predictable and can be documented >to aid the engineer (also a matter of preparation). > >I would certainly be able to offer a lower rate than $25 and hour in the >form of a package deal and would be willing to do a fixed-price quote if >that would help keep budgets under control. Also if one was to choose to >multitrack, I think the time would be less than estimated here (more like >2-3 times the direct-to-DAT approach), plus I would charge a lot less than >$50 an hour. > >Also in Holland, I am sure that the royalties issue is a lot simpler. You >tell STEMRA what you have recorded and pay the royalties of about $1 per CD >based on about an hour of copyright music (less if some of the work is >out-of-copyright). There is no need for the composer's permission. >Though I would have to check out the situation if CDs are to be sold outside >Holland or outside Europe. > >Feel free to point people at my web site (http://www.iae.nl/users/jon/) and >email address (mailto:jon-AT- iae.nl) for more info. > >Jonathan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Antony Heywood [mailto:antony-AT- IAEhv.nl] >Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 12:24 PM >To: Jonathan Heywood >Subject: Fw: A Musical Companion to Barnes > > >Jonathan, > >There is a proposal to record all the 430 tunes in Barnes' book of English >Country Dance Tunes and as this answer contained some US studio costings, I >thought you might be interested. > >Antony > >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul J. Stamler >To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >Date: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 9:42 PM >Subject: Re: A Musical Companion to Barnes > > >>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >> >>> I see various implementation problems, which you may well already be >>> considering. Some of the tunes in Barnes are copyright, so >>> rights would have to be sought and possibly royalty payments arranged, >bringing >>> up a level of ongoing hassle that will be around forever. (I mean, >tracking >>> sales and paying royalties, which will be an issue as long as you're >selling >>> the CDs.) >> >>There is an alternative way to handle this which avoids the hassle of >>tracking sales figures month-to-month, one which many musicians and >>writers use: if both the writers and record producers agree, royalties >>are paid when the disks are pressed, rather than as they are sold. So if >>you press 1000 disks, you send a check for -- is it still $69.50? -- to >>the author of the tune. No one loses, and everyone gains -- the writer >>gets the money up front, the producer only has to do the work of paying >>royalties when a new run of disks is pressed. >> >>Performance royalties are a much stickier mess; not only would the >>performers on the disks have royalties do, but so would the authors of >>any in-copyright tunes. Now, dance groups ought to be keeping lists of >>what they program anyway, and computers make it easy to keep track of >>what's played over a year, but it's a hassle. >> >>> Have you considered just >>> how much studio time it's going to take to get dance-length versions of >430 >>> tunes, and how much it's going to cost? >> >>Well, let's do some arithmetic. We'll make an unwarranted assumption -- >>that you're using someone like me, who records direct-to-DAT rather than >>via multitrack, and who charges $25/hr. Assuming with great optimism that >>the total recording and editing time per tune will be two hours (anyone >>with serious studio experience is already laughing hysterically), the >>cost for studio labor will be $21,500 -- not including tape costs, >>mastering time, etc.. And this is with the cheapest possible professional >>studio setup; multiply this number by a factor ranging from 4 to 10 for >>multitracking, and double the rates to about $50/hour. $172,000 is the >>low-end figure. Then, of course, you need to press the CDs. Let's say 18 >>discs will hold it all; assume $1,000 to press each disk. This totals >>$18,000. So just to cut the music and press it (never mind paying >>royalties, cover art designers, etc.) you're talking a *bare minimum* of >>about $40,000 (direct-to-2-track, no overdubs) or $200,000 (multi-track). >>Either tay, it's a lot of money -- and remember that the time estimates >>are optimistic. >> >>> I'm not entirely comfortable with anointing Bare Necessities, wonderful >as they >>> are, as the stylistic arbiter of ECD music. If CDSS were proposing this >>> project, I would object to it, and suggest having some of the recordings >done >>> by other bands, both to avoid so anointing BN and to give other people a >>> chance. Boston Centre, may, of course, do whatever it likes, and it >makes >>> sense for you to want to use your best local band. (I'd be concerned >about >>> tempi and interpretation, too, if CDSS were doing it, but Boston Centre >>> presumably has a preferred tempo for each dance, and I infer that this >>> decision would be in Helene's capable hands.) >> >>I share Alan's concern. In fact, I'd be concerned about anointing >>*anyone's* performance as the canonical one; folks around the USA >>(and also in the UK) have been working pretty hard to develop local and >>regional styles of playing these tunes, and I think a project like this >>might have the unintended effect of stifling localism. I can already hear >>the callers (or dancers) saying, "Stop -- you're not playing it like the >>recording!" Having something like this set up as THE way to play the >>tune, even if that is completely unintentional, is something I see as a >>potentially serious problem. >> >>Peace. >>Paul >> > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:20:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:16:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980417181658.18539.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > > > If I read Rich aright, his theme was "dances that have nothing to do with > taxes." > > But if he lists his program we can entertain ourselves by pointing out > tax connections he hadn't realized were there. > > -- Alan So, presumably he did not call any dances that any of the assembled dancers would have found taxing to their abilities. === Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 11:32:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 13:30:39 -0500 From: Mike Briggs Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (no subject) To: "ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" Message-ID: <3538F14F.3FDAB0F4-AT- execpc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subscribe -- ************************************************* Norma and Mike Briggs 1.608.2571600 (voice) Briggs Law Office 1.608.2571611 (fax) 1914 Monroe St Madison WI 53711-2057 USA brigglaw-AT- execpc.com ------------------------------------------------- CHEESE -- FOOD OF ONCE AND FUTURE CHAMPIONS ************************************************* ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:13:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:16:18 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804202211.SAA11728-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > If I read Rich aright, his theme was "dances that have nothing to do > with taxes." > > But if he lists his program we can entertain ourselves by pointing > out tax connections he hadn't realized were there. > > -- Alan Alan is correct; the theme (with tongue firmly planted in cheek) was dances having nothing to do with taxes. A few dancers pointed out dances we couldn't do. E.g., Childgrove sounds too much like a deduction. Same for any "House" dance, but someone pointed out that Slaughter House would be particularly inappropriate. I avoided any royalty (Kings, Queens, Princes, etc.) dances. A couple years ago, Mary K Friday called a program in Baltimore on a tax-day theme. It included: Fourpence Ha'Penny Farthing Bare Necessities Tythe Pig Splendid Shilling Elizabeth Bunch of Fives Siege of Limerick The King's Penny Money in Both Pockets Lady Williams' Delight Mr. Isaac's Maggot I don't think she intended that all the dances would be tax-related. So, for those who wish to entertain themselves as Alan suggests, here's the list of dances I called last Wednesday. Lilli Burlero Love's Triumph Faithless Nancy Dawson The Wood Duck Jacob Hall's Jig Long Live London Mad Robin Dick's Maggot La Russe Sun Assembly Have fun. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:10:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:14:05 -0400 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Bad theme dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <353C0EF8.172E-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199804202211.SAA11728-AT- ns.kreative.net> Fond memories of a bad idea: Nearly two decades ago, in a great inland city on the water front, I was a novice dance leader for an English group that danced primariliy to recorded music. Along about that time, all the Apted dances came out on two records from England. During fall term, we danced many of them one mingled in with our regular program. Somehow we came up with the idea of having a dance marathon (a bit like the international folk dancers, who at that time staged an event in which they danced through their entire recorded repertoire in alphabetical order; it took about 20 hours). We decided to do all of the Apted dances, 12 in the afternoon and the other 12 in the evening. While there are many fine dances in that collection, there is a sameness of melody line, the presence of more jigs than one wants to hear in an evening, and not all that much variety in the feel for the dances. The evening was saved by the fact that we hadn't had many special events before. It wasn't until later that dancers found out it could have been better. Almost anything would have been better. Some learn by listening to good advice. Others of us have to prove to ourselves that these ideas don't really work well. Erna-Lynne -------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / Ann Arbor MI -------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:50:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:47:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Sallen Nic Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Theme dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a complete neophyte to this forum, having only seen the two latest contributions (from Rich and Erna-Lynne) I was moved to a chuckle by Erna- Lynne's this a.m., regretting a surfeit of Apted some years ago. I seem to have got myself a reputation (not necessarily good, I hasten to say) for running "theme Balls". It all started with "A Walsh Ball" in 1992/3, when I had been looking at dances published by John Walsh, and thought it might be fun to make up our annual Ball programme from them. Two years on was the Purcell Tercentenary, which eventually led (via a Ball) to publishing all dances I could find to Purcell tunes. Iwas then asked to do a Ball in Norwich, and was firmly asked what the theme would be! So when I found that John Playford was brought up there, I chose a programme from the first six editions of the Dancing Master (John's editions), whih was fun, and allowed inclusion of dances I had hardly even thought of for more than thirty years (does anyone else do such gems as Staines Morris or Jenny Pluck Pears these days?). "Playford from the New World" made a splendid programme, which was extremely well received on the night, as well as since. Last year's "Purcell, Encore" was not at all easy, having already creamed off most of the best, but worked all right in the end. Later last year I did a Ball in Leamington Spa which the organiser billed as "A Royal Assembly Ball", so I used "......Assembly" titles, and titles with Royalty involved, which seemed to go down reasonably well (though the verdict of one dancer on The Queen's Birthday was fairly unprintable!). Now I am sweating on the top line for this year, having set myself to do a programme of dances all published in Jane Austen's lifetime - not easy from the point of view of variety! I must say, given the vast canvas of Country Dance available to us these days, I do find a theme helpful, in that it imposes some kind of restriction on the choice of dances, which also incidentally seems to add, in some cases, an overall coherence to a programme. However, twenty four Apted dances in an afternoon and evening ..... Nicolas B. (Scotland) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:59:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:00:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: heys and gypsies To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sorry to be so late with this comment. On Sun, 15 Mar 1998, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: {snip} > >I believe this was Ted's first year {1970} at Pinewoods Dance Week (previous year > >featured Dick Forscher and Ralph Sweet), though he had been exposed to> >English dance prior to this at Boston Centre events. > > Ah, but for how many years did he follow the English scene in Boston at the > Y? Ted's father-in-law, Irwin Davis, was an active English dancer in the Boston area for years. He was cheerful, friendly, and helpful when I first attended the Wednesday night English class in 1955. In fact, Irwin is the source for one of my favorite remarks for starting up the class again after the break. When Louise Chapin was having difficulty getting dancers to stop talking and get up to dance, Irwin would shout, "You're not here to have fun. You're here to dance!" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage Vermont US (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:00:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:00:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Theme dances again To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is "The Deil's Awa Wi' the Exciseman" in the dance repertory? Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 05:23:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 08:24:08 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Back from NEFFA To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Well had a grand ol' time at NEFFA as always - more dancing than my body can stand for, although this year I did better than most and am only feeling a bit tired this morning. Did some very nice ECD, including a session with Bruce Hamilton on "Rowdy English." I think you worried too much Bruce! One thing I noticed though - I sat out Dorset, and the minute you mentioned that Highland "footing" would be ok, there were a LOT of people doing it! Interesting how suggestible people are and how many people knew how to do the hands and some the feet for "highland footing." Was able to erase some of the prissy stuff that people in our set brought to the hornpipe - merely by doing what Lisa Greenleaf suggested in her "Defensive Contras" session - do it the way that works for you and SMILE. Hard to make mincing pointy feet movements when your partner (moi) is doing down to earth step hops! LOL. Enjoyed it! and as the lil kids say "do it again!" Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:19:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:10:53 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Back from NEFFA, addendum To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Was it here or rec-f-d where the discussion reigned about the "petronella clap" phenomena. Having never experienced it before, I was startled at NEFFA to find this and was easily convinced as to why people were ag'in it. Ok, you can clap to the music. Next! But then again, I was also amazed at how many dances we did where a figure was "do x number of petronella turns" - is this a comeback or what? Mary Beth <-- is straying from ECD topic but thought it was worth mentioning ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:13:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:15:29 -0500 From: Rebecca Katz Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 1999 Society of Dance History Scholars Conference To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980427181529.0079e9b0-AT- pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Colleagues, I apologize for any duplicate postings that you may receive since we are posting this announcements to several lists. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Marge Maddux, Treasurer, SDHS ******************************************************** CALL FOR PAPERS THE SOCIETY OF DANCE HISTORY SCHOLARS 1999 CONFERENCE THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO JUNE 11 - 13, 1999 The Program Committee for the 1999 conference in Albuquerque welcomes submissions on any topic within dance history and related disciplines. This open format allows us to display the broad range of interests of our membership. We encourage scholars with related interests to propose group sessions organized around a central topic. Proposals for movement workshops and lecture-demonstrations are also encouraged. In addition, we invite proposals for informal Working Groups, which bring together different constituencies within the Society. Topics for established Working Groups include Early Dance, Ethnicity and Dance, and Reconstruction. As always, the Committee also welcomes individual submissions. We would like to offer particular encouragement for graduate students to apply and attend the conference. The conference will coincide with the Annual Festival Flamenco Internationale, also hosted by the University of New Mexico at Albuquerque, which will include a variety of music and dance performances and workshops that SDHS members may attend. In addition, on Sunday, June 13, nearby San Juan will host a day of Native American dances, which conference goers will be welcome to attend. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSIONS: OCTOBER 30, 1998 Please send eight copies of your proposal (together with your name, address, and E-mail address if you have one) to: Lori Salem lsalem-AT- nimbus.ocis.temple.edu 218 West Gorgas Lane (215) 848-2549 Philadelphia, PA 19119 (215) 204-7083 (fax) Proposals must be postmarked by October 30, 1998. Submitters will be notified by February 1, 1999. If you wish to be notified that your proposal was received, please include either your E-mail address or a stamped, self-addressed postcard. Please direct questions about proposals to Lori Salem at the above address or E-mail. ________________________________________________ Program Committee: Lori Salem (Temple University), Chair; Irene Alm (Rutgers University); Ninotchka Bennahum (New York University); Ananya Chatterjea (Temple University); Joan Erdman (Columbia College Chicago); Anita Gonzalez (Connecticut College); Libby Smigel (Rochester Institute of Technology). ________________________________________________ All presenters must be members of SDHS or join before the conference, and all presenters must pay the conference registration fee. For SDHS membership or to receive a conference brochure please contact: =20 Marge Maddux, Treasurer, SDHS Dance Program - University of Minnesota 106 Norris Hall 172 Pillsbury Dr. SE Fax: 612-310-0494 Minneapolis, MN 55455 E-mail:maddu001-AT- maroon.tc.umn.edu _____________________________________________________ GUIDELINES FOR PROPOSALS: The Program Committee welcomes proposals in the categories below: 1. INDIVIDUAL RESEARCH PAPERS: Research papers should be based on a topic of original research which has not been published previously. They should be designed to take no more than 30 minutes to present, including any audio-visual materials. All proposals must include an abstract of no more than two pages in length. The first paragraph should state the topic, research method or framework of analysis, and conclusion. Subsequent paragraphs should outline how the presentation is developed and describe the type and amount of illustrative material, if used. A bibliography or statement of sources must be included; this may require an additional page. Presenters may elect to include a complete paper in addition to the abstract. Students wishing to apply for the Selma Jeanne Cohen Young Scholars Program should follow the special application guidelines for that program. See information following General Guidelines. 2. RESEARCH PAPER SESSIONS: Three or four applicants may propose, together, a session of related papers. The application should include an abstract (as described above) for each of the papers, as well as a cover letter explaining the theme of the session and the order in which the papers should be presented. Proposals should supply names and addresses for all proposed presenters. 3. LECTURE-DEMONSTRATIONS: A proposal for a lecture-demonstration should be 1-2 pages in length, and it should include a thorough description of the material to be covered, a bibliography of sources, and a statement of the time and space required. A lecture-demonstration may take from 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours. If more than one presenter is involved, the proposal should describe the contribution of each person. Proposals should supply names and addresses for all proposed presenters. 4. WORKSHOPS: A proposal for a workshop should include a written description of the movement material, accompanied by a list of sources, a statement of the time and space required, and of appropriate attire for the participants. A workshop may not exceed 1 1/2 hours. 5. WORKING GROUPS, ROUNDTABLES OR OTHER FORMATS: Those wishing to propose a working group should explain the topic to be discussed and give a sense of the general interest within SDHS in this topic. Those wishing to propose a Roundtable discussion or any format other than those described above should explain their idea and chosen format, the topic(s) to be discussed, and the desired length of time. If the presentation is to include more than one participant, the proposal should give a brief abstract of each person's intended contribution. Proposals should supply names and addresses for all proposed presenters. ________________________________________________________ GENERAL GUIDELINES: =B7 All submissions should include the name, address, phone number and E-mail address (if available) of the author(s). =B7 Only one submission is allowed per person. In order to be considered, submitters must conform to the guidelines, meet the deadline for submission, and supply the required number of copies of their proposals. =B7 All presenters must be members of SDHS or join before the conference, and all presenters must pay the registration fee for the conference. =B7 All submissions should include a statement of audio-visual needs and, as relevant, statements of the amount of time requested, space requirements, and recommendations for attire. =B7 Please do not submit videotapes or photographs. =B7 Submitters are encouraged to time their presentations in advance to make sure that they adhere to the time limitations. Previous experience indicates that 12 double-spaced pages usually require about 30 minutes to present orally, with slides or overhead projections requiring 30-60 seconds each. =B7 For lecture-demonstrations and workshops, the Program Committee reserves the right to make adjustments in the time requested in order to fit the overall scheduling of the conference. =B7 If a paper is accepted for presentation at the conference, only the author of the paper may deliver the presentation. _________________________________________________________ Guidelines for the SELMA JEANNE COHEN YOUNG SCHOLARS AWARD PROGRAM =20 In recognition of Selma Jeanne Cohen's great contributions to dance history, the Society of Dance History Scholars inaugurated an award in her name at its 1995 conference. The award is intended to encourage graduate students by recognizing excellence in scholarship in the field of dance history. Up to three awards will be offered at each conference. Each will consist of 1) an invitation to present a paper at the conference; 2) waiving of the conference fee; 3) an award of up to $400 to assist the student's travel and other expenses A student wishing to apply for the 1999 Selma Jeanne Cohen Award should submit his or her paper to the Program Committee, along with a cover letter asking that the paper be placed in competition and also stating where and in what program the student is enrolled. The paper must conform to the guidelines for Research Papers given in the Guidelines for Proposals and the full text must be submitted. The paper should be designed for oral delivery; students should not enter dissertation chapters into the competition. Papers accepted by the Program Committee will be sent to the SJC Award Committee, whose members will evaluate it on the basis of originality and excellence of research, plus clarity of writing. Students will be notified of the results of the award deliberations within one month of the acceptance of their papers. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:48:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:47:20 -0700 From: "Michael J. O'Connor" Subject: National Dance Week To: ECD List Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <35454337.4407-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I saw a notice yesterday indicating this is National Dance Week, something I never heard of before. Broadway stage dancer and choreographer Ann Reinking is the national spokesperson, and there was some sort of a free performance outdoors at Lincoln Center, here in NYC, today at noon to "kick" it off. Anybody know anything about this? If anyone has access to the Federal Register, there probably is a Presidential Proclamation about it at some point in the past several weeks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:06:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:04:59 -0400 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: National Dance Week To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980427200459.006d060c-AT- popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just searched the Fed Reg at GPO's web site - "dance" does not appear in any 1998 (or 1997) Presidential documents. But, I did find that April 3 was National Equal Pay Day, and that did not actually appear in the FR until April 6. Diane At 07:47 PM 4/27/1998 -0700, you wrote: >I saw a notice yesterday indicating this is National Dance Week, >something I never heard of before. Broadway stage dancer and >choreographer Ann Reinking is the national spokesperson, and there was >some sort of a free performance outdoors at Lincoln Center, here in NYC, >today at noon to "kick" it off. Anybody know anything about this? If >anyone has access to the Federal Register, there probably is a >Presidential Proclamation about it at some point in the past several >weeks. > > Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:29:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:20:19 -0400 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Back from NEFFA, addendum (petronella clapping) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980427.202218.25470.2.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> References: As long as Mary Beth is bringing it up again, I would like to note that many years ago, when twirls in the do-si-do were relatively new, a caller in New York spent a lot of time and energy trying to discourage them. We all know the result of that. Basically contra dance is an ongoing tradition, shaped as much by the dancers as by the callers and the musicians. If clapping adds to the pleasure of the dancers,why not? I know that musicians complain about the clapping on their monitors, but many English dancers have built in claps, and there is no complaint about that. The clapping in Petronella comes at a predictable place in the dance and should not rattle the musicians. Contra dancing is an American form, and as Americans dancing our own dances we participate in its evolution. Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:10:53 -0400 Mary Beth Goodman writes: >Was it here or rec-f-d where the discussion reigned about the >"petronella >clap" phenomena. > >Having never experienced it before, I was startled at NEFFA to find >this >and was easily convinced as to why people were ag'in it. > >Ok, you can clap to the music. Next! > >But then again, I was also amazed at how many dances we did where a >figure >was "do x number of petronella turns" - is this a comeback or what? > >Mary Beth <-- is straying from ECD topic but thought it was worth >mentioning > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:17:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:14:53 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Back from NEFFA, addendum (petronella clapping) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > but many English dancers have built in >claps, >and there is no complaint about that I know - but they're not my favorites either.... just a personal taste thing I think. I couldn't remember where that discussion had gone on, so I took a chance with ECD first. I agree with you about the living tradition of it all though - totally. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:36:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: David.Millstone-AT- VALLEY.NET (David Millstone) Subject: Petronella clap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3096964-AT- lyme.VALLEY.NET> Re: Petronella clap and other socially transmitted diseases Some folks love the clap, and they're welcome to encourage it; some of us don't like it. I called a session of "New England Classic Contras" at NEFFA and decided against including Petronella as one of the dances because I suspected that the crowd there would be into clapping; I'd rather switch than fight. I'm told that Ralph Page stopped calling Money Musk because he liked the dance with forward and back, rather than the loud balance which developed in southern New Hampshire. (I prefer the version with balances.) Having done my share of changing around dances to suit my own dancing fancy, I'm amused to find myself on the old curmudgeon side for a change. David Millstone Lebanon, NH ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:36:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:36:31 -0400 From: Maryn McKenna Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Re: Petronella clap and other socially transmitted diseases > >Some folks love the clap, and they're welcome to encourage it; some of us >don't >like it. > but this, ahem, clap is seriously infectious. i was sitting out at one point during Bruce's "rowdy ECD" session and noticed some people were clapping during a dance that doesn't normally include one (blanking on the name, but after the Dorset 4-hand reel); the friend i was sitting with said, 'jeez, the Petronella thing's spreading.' (you never know how many parts a beat has until you hear dancers clap to it... :-} ) maryn mck. (who pretends to live in atlanta between dance weekends.) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:25:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 09:25:28 -0700 From: Bruce Hamilton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NEFFA, Clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: hamilton-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com Message-ID: <199804281625.AA267650728-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> Mary Beth Goodman wrote: >... the minute you >mentioned that Highland "footing" would be ok, there were a LOT of >people doing it! Interesting how suggestible people are... and also: >Was able to erase some of the prissy stuff that people in our set >brought to the hornpipe... Hard to make mincing pointy feet >movements when your partner (moi) is doing down to earth step hops! It's funny how some things take and others don't. I gave what I thought was a *very* down-to-earth demo of the kind of step-hop I wanted, and as Mary Beth suggests, it took in only a few places. (Thanks, Mary Beth for helping the cause!). I, too, got to see/hear the Petronella clapping that had been discussed on r.f-d. It wasn't as obnoxious as I'd imagined (it wasn't very loud, for example), but it got right under my skin. I'm not willing to just call it an ongoing tradition or a victimless crime. It's as if the dancers all took to singing the "Mickey Mouse Club" theme every time the band played the 'A' music of Fandango. It would be cute once, tiresome the second time, and excruciating by the fourth. And if they did it every time the dance was called, at every dance in the area? I think we'd begin to see reports of "stage rage" in the papers. Worse, by voluntarily and repeatedly inserting something trivial at that point in the tune, the dancers are saying that they find the tune trivial. That's an issue of personal taste, of course, but it makes me sad to think that people are missing the depth in these tunes. Bruce Hamilton Hewlett-Packard Laboratories MS-4AD Phone 650-857-2818 PO Box 10150, Palo Alto, CA 94303-0889 Fax 650-852-8092 bruce_hamilton-AT- hpl.hp.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:21:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:21:12 -0400 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Back from NEFFA, addendum (petronella clapping) To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199804281421_MC2-3B46-B10D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with the thoughts about "evolution" and the living tradition. I also don't disparage either the twirls or the claps but I do object to young dancers who don't appear to have any knowledge of the origins of th= e dance form and automatically assume that you don't know what you are doin= g if you choose to leave out the claps or the twirls (or for that matter-th= e assisted cast) in preference for the "old" form or for physical problems (the twirls), Ben Stein Burlington, Vt USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:36:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:36:13 -0400 From: "Howard A. Markham" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Historical Contra Dancing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980428153613.006bfed4-AT- mail90.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Since I had not been at NEFFA and planned to alter the direction of this thread slightly, I decided to rename the subject from "Re: back from NEFFA..." to the one above. Now I am shocked to discover that my remark is about contra dancing! But, to finish, leaving it to the list to decide when we should return to English: Why not a workshop at such events as NEFFA as Traditional Contra Dancing? I'm sure it's been done on occasion, but perhaps not with the following slant. I would give at least as much emphasis to the style of dancing as to the clear differences in choreography. To my perception, a courtesy turn without a twirl has more physical power, not to mention more eye contact. A turn as a couple without a twirl has even more power than a courtesy turn. On the other side, I suppose an assisted cast has more power than an unassisted cast. Nor can we assume, judging from Newt Tolman's little book about contra dancing in New England in earlier times, that there weren't always individuals ready to embellish the basic movements with twirls and the like. But the gist might be the historical fact that there was once a less flashy style that has its own (hidden, to many) pleasures, and that there are some current dancers who choose it not out of ignorance but because they prefer it. Having eschewed a Thanksgiving dance weekend in York, Pennsylvania for the ten years or more since we first heard about it, on the grounds that it didn't have live music, Pat and I decided to try it last November. It is billed as a Contra Dance weekend, and is attended mostly by Lloyd Shaw Foundation members, though it is not an LSF event. Quite apart from having the most gracious and elegant setting for a dance weekend that I know of (an old hotel with great food and crystal-chandeliered ballroom), and the delight of encountering a number of ECD friends whose association with York was unknown to us, we were captivated by the contra dancing, done in the style of Ralph Page--in fact many Lloyd Shaw dancers and leaders originally learned their contra dancing from Ralph Page, and they haven't changed it! They do a mix of old and new dances, and certain classics--Market Lass and Sackett Harbor come to mind--are obligatory and introduced almost with reverence. There were more than 100 dancers there for whom that is how contra dancing is done, without a hint of the modern style. We were enchanted. So, I think having a workshop in historical contra dance at NEFFA and other major contra dance weekends routinely would be a "good thing" for the dance community, and especially the newer dancers. But of course I'm preaching to the choir. At 02:21 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote: >I agree with the thoughts about "evolution" and the living tradition. I >also don't disparage either the twirls or the claps but I do object to >young dancers who don't appear to have any knowledge of the origins of the >dance form and automatically assume that you don't know what you are doing >if you choose to leave out the claps or the twirls (or for that matter-the >assisted cast) in preference for the "old" form or for physical problems >(the twirls), > >Ben Stein >Burlington, Vt USA >Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:16:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Historical Contra Dancing - proposing a workshop To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980428202309.23848.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't know how the program for NEFFFA is put together, but if it's done anything like the way we do it for NOMAD (which I suspect is the case), the workshops that are given are those the performers themselves have proposed. The organizing committee does not put forth the workshop topics itself. In other words, if you have a good idea for a workshop, get hold of a good caller/teacher and ask them to apply to do it at a festival - or offer to teach it yourself if you have the skills. Performer applications for NOMAD in Connecticut in the are just going out now so it would be a good time to do it. === Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT ---"Howard A. Markham" wrote: > > Since I had not been at NEFFA and planned to alter the direction of this > thread slightly, I decided to rename the subject from "Re: back from > NEFFA..." to the one above. Now I am shocked to discover that my remark is > about contra dancing! But, to finish, leaving it to the list to decide > when we should return to English: > > Why not a workshop at such events as NEFFA as Traditional Contra Dancing? > I'm sure it's been done on occasion, but perhaps not with the following > slant. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:12:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:19:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Petronella clapping and twirling To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980428211917.3744.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Bruce Hamilton wrote: > I, too, got to see/hear the Petronella clapping that had been > discussed on r.f-d. It wasn't as obnoxious as I'd imagined (it wasn't > very loud, for example), but it got right under my skin. I'm not > willing to just call it an ongoing tradition or a victimless crime. > > It's as if the dancers all took to singing the "Mickey Mouse Club" > theme every time the band played the 'A' music of Fandango. Good lord, Bruce how could you utter such a thing out loud. Err, in print . . . on screen. Now somebody's going to do it just because the idea is there. At least I know we're safe in New Haven. Anyone tried anything that horrible, Marshall Baron would strangle 'em with her bow-string. Regarding the Petronella clap, I am neutral. It doesn't bother me as much as it does some folks, on the other hand I don't do it myself, partly because I am lousy at clapping on the beat. (Hmm. I suppose that should be on both hands, since one can't not clap with only one hand). But in response to Mary Beth's (I think?) question about Petronella making a come-back, it seems to me that Petronella has, alas, entered that limbo of swing-less contra dances, perhaps to reappear when there is an historical contra-dance revival following on Howard Markham's suggested workshop. In the meantime, though, the figure of the Petronella twirl seems to be surviving in it's own right in mutational contradance forms such as Steve Zakon-Anderson's "Salmonella Evening" (a hybrid of "Salmon Chanted Evening" and "Petronella"), Bill Olson's Maine variation "Citronella Evening" and doesn't Marty Fager's English dance "The Maine Chance" use it? (There seems to be a thread there). Perhaps, English callers might consider reviving the original "Petronella" in English dance settings - my understanding was that it was originally an English dance, but my information may be wrong on that count. Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:40:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:43:05 -0600 From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping and twirling To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >my >understanding was that it was originally an English dance, but my >information may be wrong on that count. Scottish, surely? Same tune, very similar dance, much more fun to do because of the bouncy Scottish pas de basque. And no clapping. Emma Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112 phone (801) 585-9425, fax (801) 581-4668 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:11:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 18:10:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Back from NEFFA, addendum (petronella clapping) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, MARTHA C DAVEY wrote: [snip] > Basically contra dance is an ongoing tradition, shaped as much > by the dancers as by the callers and the musicians. If clapping adds to > the pleasure of the dancers,why not? I know that musicians complain about > the clapping on their monitors, but many English dancers have built in > claps, and there is no complaint about that. The clapping in Petronella > comes at a predictable place in the dance and should not rattle the > musicians. i'm a musician who complained about the petronella clapping last time we had this discussion. however, i was complaining as a *dancer*. for me, the clapping detracts from the pleasure of the dance: it prevents the other dancers from connecting hands immediately after each petronella turn. that connection is part of what makes the figure pleasurable for me: it's different from the individualistic twirl in a do-si-do, where (unless you bump into someone, or spend so much time twirling that you're late for the next figure) the embellishment doesn't have to affect the dancers around you. dancers who insist on clapping every time may not even realize what they're missing. > Contra dancing is an American form, and as Americans dancing our > own dances we participate in its evolution. yes, for better and worse! susie lorand princeton, nj ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:18:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:59:11 -0500 From: lstout-AT- sun.iwu.edu (Larry Stout) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping and twirling To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804282159.QAA23900-AT- goedel.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've danced versions of Petronella claiming to be: English Northumbrian (with rant) Scottish South African (a variant on the Scottish) and American contra In none of these have I ever heard the clapping that started this thread. You can't pin a good dance down! Larry Stout ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:31:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:31:51 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clap To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, David.Millstone-AT- VALLEY.NET (David Millstone) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:36 AM -0400 4/28/98, David Millstone wrote: >I called a session of "New England Classic Contras" ........ Having done >my share of >changing around dances to suit my own dancing fancy, I'm amused to find myself >on the old curmudgeon side for a change. This was a fabulous session of classic dances David. I was VERY excited by the prospect of it, and when you told what the agenda was.... WOW! Having had the pleasure of dancing a few times with Ralph Page, and having had Ted Sanella at my first Pinewoods (who among other things did a review of some of the classics) - I have a bit of "fear of God" in me about some of those dances, in particular Money Musk. It was GREAT to do them again. A few years, Ted called Chorus Jig late on a Sunday afternoon and when many of us cheered to hear the title announced, we were also VERY dismayed to see the slack jawed "huh?" stares of many. It was alarming to see how many people had never experienced this gem. Thanks again. To make this more on topic - I will add that I think ECDrs should learn a lesson from what we see in Contra Circles - that we should not let the "golden oldies" pass from view. Mary Beth <-- who only thinks of Mickey when doing Mr. Mortimer's Delight (is that the title?) P. Shaw's purported first dance. And who will always remember our teacher's evil grin when at the Friday demo, after the first time thru, he announced - now we'll do it up to speed! LOL ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:37:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 22:37:35 -0400 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: More ENGLISH at NEFFA To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I did attend ALL the ECD at NEFFA (and Maryn - did I see you and not recognize you???!) Just have to add, that I really really enjoyed Sue Dupre's Purloined English Dances - Great theme. She was having a blast up on stage, as were we out there on the dance floor. Nice combination of intellectual theme with well chosen dances. Even got some of the Reel Nutmeggers commenting on how pleasant it was to do a "new" dance! Way to go Sue! See you in August for Molly! And for closing, we went to Barbara Finney's English Classic session too, on Sunday. It was very nice and relaxing to do dances that are so familiar. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:38:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:41:18 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping and twirling To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804290336.XAA00140-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara Ruth wrote. > Perhaps, English callers might consider reviving the original > "Petronella" in English dance settings - my understanding was that > it was originally an English dance, but my information may be wrong > on that count. That one's got me stumped. I first learned Petronella as an English dance. But, in the same year came across it as a Scottish dance and as an American contra. So, which came first? Does anyone know where Petronella first appeared? It's in one of Jean Milligan's SCD books, but where did she get it? For that matter, what "Petronella" mean? ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:51:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:50:53 -0400 From: "Mary K. Friday" Subject: Re: Petronella clap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3546A39D.2CF5-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Mary Beth Goodman wrote: > > To make this more on topic - I will add that I think ECDrs should learn a > lesson from what we see in Contra Circles - that we should not let the > "golden oldies" pass from view. > The parallel I see here is the traditional English dances, which are simply not done in many parts of the U.S. (right on, Bruce!). Mary Kay Friday Washington, D.C. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 21:55:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:06:53 -0500 From: Charlene Charette Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford - 3rd edition To: English Country Dance List Message-ID: <3546A75D.572488D5-AT- flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm trying to find a copy of Playford's 3rd edition - paper or film. My ILL librarian wasn't able to find a copy. Any suggestions? --Charlene -- Nothing is beyond the capability of two determined women. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:57:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 02:57:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Sallen Nic Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: Petronella clap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pat Shaw's first dance composition was "Monica's Delight", to the tune Picadilly-O. Nicolas. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:17:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:12:42 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3547193A.D592B593-AT- ecid.cig.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SET ECD MAIL SET ECD NOREPRO ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 05:19:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:14:13 +0100 From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (no subject) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <35471995.49E53316-AT- ecid.cig.mot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REVIEW ECD QUIT ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:36:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 09:36:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford - 3rd edition To: English Country Dance List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Charlene Charette wrote: > I'm trying to find a copy of Playford's 3rd edition - paper or film. My > ILL librarian wasn't able to find a copy. Any suggestions? Jeremy Barlow's book of tunes from Playford has a table giving the locations of all of the known copies of Playford. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:21:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:20:58 -0400 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford - 3rd edition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199804291418.KAA03899-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:06 AM 4/29/98 , you wrote: >I'm trying to find a copy of Playford's 3rd edition - paper or film. My >ILL librarian wasn't able to find a copy. Any suggestions? > >--Charlene > >-- >Nothing is beyond the capability of two determined women. Charlene, I asked this question of a person whom I hold in high regard and rec'd the reply appearing below. I am passing it on w/ her permission. Best regards, -- Roger __ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer - _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com ________ (/_______________________________________ or __ Dancer-AT- exist.com I presume the search is for the 3rd edition of the 1st volume of the Dancing Master (1657 and 1665). The 3rd edition, first issue, 1657, can be found at Pepysian Library at Cambridge, England and Glasgow University. The 3rd edition, second issue, 1665, can be found at the British Library, the Bodleian Library at Oxford University, the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, New York Public Library, and the Parish Church of Warnham-Sussex. Good luck in your research. Kate Van Winkle Keller ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 07:40:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:37:24 -0400 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Petronella To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199804291040_MC2-3B63-F4EB-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Petronella and claps? And the second couple moving with the turns? Heck, folks, those are modern adaptations to accommodate the dancers who are hungry for moving forever and never wanting to be the inactives. The dance has changed from an old traditional New England contra to a contemporary dance with the same name but very different dynamics. I believe that contras - popular as they have become in dance communities and having spawned many talented choreographers - are not synonimous with NEW ENGLAND contras anymore. Perhaps a differentiation in terminology is desirable? _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 08:19:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 16:22:25 +0100 From: Howard Mitchell Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #364 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <354745B1.15C9-AT- tcp.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <009C56C4.E6330AB0.1-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu> Mary K. Friday wrote: > The parallel I see here is the traditional English dances, which are > simply not done in many parts of the U.S. (right on, Bruce!). > Mary Kay Friday > Washington, D.C. > For those interested in traditional english dances as they are now seen in "english ceilidh", there is a new list called "eceilidh". Take a look at http://www.netservs.com/ec/ or subscribe by sending a mail to list-AT- netservs.com with the words "join eceilidh" in the body, not the title. You will receive a welcome mail with further instructions. Be warned however, that the ethos of english ceilidh is far removed from ECD as this list knows it. Howard Mitchell ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:54:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:54:25 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ethel Capps passes on 27 April To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <40af5721.35476952-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Dance Friends, Ethel Capps, doyenne of country dance at Berea Coll