Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:52:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 00:51:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IT1OHM46D89UMX1I-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Don wrote: Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's appropriate - or, even fun - to clap between the right hands across and left hands back? I have always put two claps in there with Indian Queen. Now I am wondering if my dancers will feel embarassed if they do this in someone else's class when no one else does!! From my point of view, it's inappropriate and not fun to _always_ do it. Then it seems it's just part of the figure, when it's actually your own ornamentation and individual expression; stereotyped individual expression is not fun. It's appropriate when the spirit moves you and it's not disruptive to the mood of the dance (no clapping after the stars in "Rose of Sharon"!) and you don't have brand new people around who get the idea that this is the way it's always done. (My particular thing when the spirit moves me is to rant the heys in Jack's Maggot and Red-House, since the music tells me to even if the dance instructions don't -- but I don't do it every time, and I try not to do it if I think it will faze the other people in the hey. This is part of why it's fun to run into Sharon Green in the line for one of those dances; she'll rant right back and then some!) Would anybody else care to share the thing that's too much fun for them not to do when they're in the mood? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:25:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:25:34 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802011825.MAA00176-AT- staff2.cso.uiuc.edu> Alan Winston writes: >Don wrote: >>Does anyone have any thoughts on when it's appropriate - or, even fun - >>to clap between the right hands across and left hands back? I have >>always put two claps in there with Indian Queen. Now I am wondering if >>my dancers will feel embarassed if they do this in someone else's class >>when no one else does!! This would seem to be a regional variation and seems fine to me as long as your dancers are aware that when they go elsewhere they may encounter different variations. When in Rome do as the Romans do. >Would anybody else care to share the thing that's too much fun for them not to >do when they're in the mood? Our group likes to clap twice on the turn (from going forward down the hall to going backward down the hall) in Dublin Bay. I don't know if this is common or not, but it fits the music nicely. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 11:01:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 13:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dance ornamentation (was Re: Clapping midst hands across ...) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: [snip] > Would anybody else care to share the thing that's too much fun for them not to > do when they're in the mood? > > -- Alan i plead guilty to turning the two-hand turn in the 2nd B (i think) of barbarini's tambourine into a swing, when the music tells me to :-). it's also fun sometimes (when everyone in the minor set can do it without confusion) to turn figures of eight into double figures of eight. i forget which dances lend themselves to this. susie lorand princeton, nj ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 17:54:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 20:50:25 -0500 (EST) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <34fc9b0.34d52663-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/31/98 2:14:50 AM, Alan Winston wrote: <> Kentucky set running should not be termed a contra dance. It is a circle for as many as will and much like "Playford's Peppers Black" or "Rose Is White And Rose Is Red" in its configuration. John Ramsay in St Louis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 23:20:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 02:20:29 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > Would anybody else care to share the thing that's too much fun for them not to > do when they're in the mood? Actually, there's 2 things I like to do (which seem to be shared by a number of other experienced dancers in the Baltimore-Washington area): 1. In Trip to Paris, at the point where the 1s are supposed to skip around the 2s and back, to take a real "trip" - through a pair of 2s much farther down, or even in another line - and get back in time for the 1s to turn single away from each other without missing a beat. 2. In Dublin Bay, instead of arming once around with your neighbor, arm around as many times as you can get away with (most people manage 2, but I once did 3). In fact, someone whose name escapes me once referred to this move as "the Baltimore flip." I'd be curious to hear what anyone else does for fun too. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:52:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 04:54:22 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Actually, there's 2 things I like to do (which seem to be shared by a >number of other experienced dancers in the Baltimore-Washington area): > >1. In Trip to Paris, > >2. In Dublin Bay, We do these things, too. But I'm never quite certain that people actually think they're OK. There's a formality to our style and general tone which restrains us, and claps when stars, oh, sorry, hands across, turn and go back are really likely to impair that mood. In fact, although I'm among the people who are most likely to do extra turns in Dublin Bay, I often sense dismay or disapproval emanating from people around me. And I'm hardly the primary practical joker in the crowd. > >I'd be curious to hear what anyone else does for fun too. I think the answer in Boston would be "English Country Dancing". If we need to do things "for fun" there's an implication that the dancing itself, the whole basic activity itself, is somehow not fun, so we have a little list of spoofs and tricks that we do to make it fun. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 02:42:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 05:44:31 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: re: clapping in stars To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Another thing I've done, which I thought would be fun, is Orleans Baffled as a duple. It was fun I thought, felt like fun to me, but went over like a lead balloon all the same. One thing that really differentiates English Dancing from contra dancing, here in New England, is that contra dancing no longer has any waiting time, and along with that goes the loss of the times that are special for one couple or another, usually the ones. Probably the reason the duple Orleans fell flat is that there's an anticipation embedded in each of the half pousettes, the contrast between the perpetuo moto for the ones and the attentive waiting for the 2s and 3s. I think that anticipation has two parts - the solo glory for the ones and the being-ready-to-be-part-of-it for the 2s and 3s. By making Orleans duple all that is eliminated, and Orleans becomes just another contra dance. Finally, I really like doing duples crossed over when they seem to have some really substantial amount of same sex interaction, especially when there are same sex gypsies. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 07:18:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:00:33 -0600 From: lstout-AT- sun.iwu.edu (Larry Stout) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802021500.JAA11096-AT- goedel.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dawn Culbertson recalls turning 3 times in the arming in Dublin Bay. I'll admit to some excess in this department. Once when the other man in the minor set was my teenage son (who is an excellent dancer with good phrasing and timing, and occational excess energy) we did 5 turns on the arming. I actually like it better with one, but then I am 32 years older than he is! Larry Stout ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 07:48:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:48:29 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: fun? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hiya, I was concerned by a message about fun embellishments people like to add to dances. Dublin bay was mentioned, with the idea of turning the person you meet more than once. Some years ago this, and similar embellishments, was very much in fashion. Strangers would grab you and try to spin you around multiple times, regardless. It wasn't fun for me, and I expect for other spinees who weren't expecting it or didn't want to do it. I'm not a small person, more mid-sized, so I can resist, but I don't appreciate someone trying to turn me off my feet as an idea of fun. (And yes, I have been thrown off my feet by this sort of thing.) Like those folks in contras who think it's cute to crank a woman around several times, whether she appreciates it or not -- and whether it throws off the set's timing or not. And timing is rather important in country dances, right? As John Playford and sons should have said, In country dancing there is no such thing as a pleasant surprise. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:38:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:38:35 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Larry Stout wrote: > my teenage son (who is an excellent dancer with good phrasing and timing, and > occational excess energy) we did 5 turns on the arming. I actually like it > better with one, but then I am 32 years older than he is! While I agree with the person who disliked stereotyped individual expression, but getting teen-agers, particularly boys, to dance ECD, is worth far more than their individual expression is likely to hurt -- and I doubt if many could, even if they would, execute such figures with grace, if they could do them at all... But when such expression _is_ copied, it is rarely an enhancement. For me, Petronella has been all but ruined by what many now consider to be obligatory clapping on the turning figure, destroying much of the wonderful character of that figure for a cheap trick, rarely executed well in itself. And now dancers find themselves doing it to the tune or figure in other contexts (like "Fiddleheads", a wonderful dance which has no need of such embellishment). This isn't to say that I don't have little things which I like to insert into the dance -- but the element of surprise is part of the fun, and the interaction with partner and others in the set another part, and if I'm wrapped up in my own thing so much that I miss what my partner is doing, or if my partner and I are so wrapped up in ourselves that we don't pay attention to what the others in our set are doing, then not only is what I am doing rude and selfish, but it quickly becomes trite and offensive even if it doesn't directly interfere with the ability of others around me to be in the right place at the right time. So the placing of little ornaments is a matter of finding just the right moment for introducing it, and then carrying it off in a manner which at least excuses the excess by the grace and good spirit with which it is done. It's a lot like ornamentation in baroque music -- there's an interplay between musicians, who listen to each other and to the ensemble as well as to their individual line, and who provide through their little "comments" to each other and to the audience a fresh version of the work each time they perform it. Eric Arnold -- English Country Dancer and Sometime Baroque Flute and Viol Player in Ann Arbor. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:42:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: Peter.Fricke-AT- noaa.gov Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:42:01 -0500 From: Peter Fricke Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: raymond-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk (IPM Return requested), ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (IPM Return requested) Message-ID: <02A1934D5F759015*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNMFS/s=Fricke/g=Peter/-AT- MHS> Am I correct in assuming that "ceilidh" is now the preferred term for "barn dance"? Barn dances were held in nearly every English village and small town (twice monthly in my village) when I was a youth in the 1940s and 1950s, and when I was in the UK again in the late 1960s/early 1970s, but ceilidhs there were none. In Lindsey (Northern Lincolnshire) we danced the rants, many of the dances in the community dance manuals, waltzs, and only one or two of the "Playford" dances (we knew and danced Newcastle, but to the tune Yellow Rose of Texas). No caller; the leader of the musicians announced the tune and we did the dance that went with it. Callers first began to appear about 1953-4 in our area, and "square dances" were introduced following the Queen's trip to Canada and film newsreels showing the Royals dancing. My experience of dancing in Cheshire/Lancashire (Merseyside) and Northumbia was similar. Other than Cecil Sharp House, the only Playford dancing I encountered regularly was a group in Liverpool and another in Bebington, The Wirral, led by Tom Kameen and Tom Cook. When I visit my sister, in Grantham, Lincolnshire, "barn dance" is still the preferred term and the evenings in the villages around are much as I remember them with the addition of some American contras and squares. Playford-era dances are not a normal part of the evening, although "modern" dances by Pat Shaw and Colin Hume, etc, are fairly common... a function of EFDSS dance weekends and courses I suspect. Peter Fricke ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 08:47:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:47:27 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pleasant surprises To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > As John Playford and sons should have said, In country dancing there is no > such thing > as a pleasant surprise. Hmmm... so it would be an unpleasant surprise if you were to be pleasantly surprised??? In that case, please wear a name tag at dances you attend so we may avoid any unpleasantries! (;-^) Eric Arnold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:25:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 12:25:17 -0500 (EST) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6316d7ad.34d6017f-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Alan, Thanks for posting both Linda Repasky's and your fine descriptions of ECD and some background on ECD and contra dancing - they'll be very useful. At first reading, one sentence did strike me as being a bit limiting: << There's more variety in meter; some dances are in waltz time, polka time, minuet time, or other options, although the dances are still done with a simple walking step. >> It's that "simple walking step" that struck me, since we _do_ skip, skip- change, slip, rant, etc. In fact, the long-short-short feel of the waltz is itself far from a walking step. True, this article is intended to inform and attract newcomers, and the idea of "steps" can be threatening, but the variety of ways in which we move to the music in ECD is actually another factor that distinguishes it from contras. As for the walking step itself, how can we convey to dancers and make them experience the difference between the lilt and propulsion of a dance walk and "trudging home from the store with groceries", as Fried Herman might say? But that's a subject for another post...... Carol Martinez White Plains, New York ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:40:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:29:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Alan: I like your summary a lot; I have only two nits to pick. 1) You stated that modern contra is done to "medleys of jigs and reels". In some parts of the country that's true, but in the midwest and south most contra is done to old-time music, and the general practice is to not play medleys, but to stick to one tune for the whole dance. I'd say that about 80% of the time, old-time bands will do that; about 20% of the time, they'll include a second tune. Hardly ever a third. And the repertoire is 99% in 4/4 time; jigs are almost never included. Contemporary contra bands, what I call "Third Stream" and what most people refer to as "Wild-Asparagus-Type-Bands" follow the model you're talking about, but at least in the midwest, although these bands exist, they're not the dominant style. 2) I'd quarrel with the statement that there are more moves in ECD than in contra; in the last several years, the number of moves used in contra has escalated. There are now "zippers", diagonal heys and other novel maneuvers. I think it's gotten to the point where the number of moves in ECD and contra is about equal -- however, I'd agree that the number of routine moves you use every day is greater in ECD. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:15:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: Capersall-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: fun? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve Corrsin says it ain't no fun to have some one try to force you into a double turn in Dublin Bay, but he can resist because he's "mid-sized". Let me tell ya, even the more-than-mid-sized, such as I, can be more than just aesthetically annoyed by some one who tries that stunt. I do actually sometimes like doing a double turn in Dublin (Doubling?) Bay, but when some one of my own size tried it without warning he wrenched my shoulder (the one with the long-standing bursitis, of course) so that it ached for months. I must differ with team-mate Steve on his "In country dancing there is no such thing as a pleasant surprise." I find it always pleasant and often a suprise when I encounter a couple who gets the timing right on the heys in Trip to Kilburn or Orleans Baffled. Art Munisteri ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:23:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 19:18:52 +0100 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Linda Repasky's description of ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802021822.TAA22620-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I found Linda Repasky's description of ECD which she had prepared for a hand-out extremely good and I hope she won't take exception to my using it almost word-for-word on the Dutch Folk Dance Society Website http://www.iae.nl/users/antony/ where I have, of course, acknowledged her authorship. If there are any objections, please let me know and I'll remove it and look for some other text, or write my own (but it won't be as good). Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:25:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:24:09 -0600 From: Mike or Norma Briggs Subject: Surprises To: "ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D61D59.DC13C1EB-AT- execpc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------19DF1BBCC08B33F22335133C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------19DF1BBCC08B33F22335133C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I second Art Munisteri's comment about "Doubling" Bay, as one who is even more than "more-than-mid-sized". I see it as a case of one good turn not deserving another. Mike --------------19DF1BBCC08B33F22335133C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Mike or Norma Briggs Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Mike or Norma Briggs n: Briggs;Mike or Norma org: Briggs Law Office adr: 1914 Monroe St;;;Madison;WI;53711-2057;USA email;internet: brigglaw-AT- execpc.com tel;work: 608.257.1612 tel;fax: 608.257.1611 tel;home: 608.238.1227 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------19DF1BBCC08B33F22335133C-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:52:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:35:57 -0500 From: marthacd-AT- juno.com (MARTHA C DAVEY) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Persona idiosyncracys in English dance (clapping midst hands across...) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980202.143557.3542.5.marthaCD-AT- juno.com> References: On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 02:20:29 -0500 (EST) Dawn Culbertson writes: (snip) >I'd be curious to hear what anyone else does for fun too. >Dawn Culbertson >dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu Here are some of mine: Shrewsbury Lasses: As third woman when circling with the ones -at the end of the circle I bring my right hand, still holding that of the first woman around my head behind my back to help her on her way Mr. Isaac's Maggot: On the third change of the hey, my partner and I (as active couple) do a quick 1 1/2 gypsy before facing up. (This also works well in A Trip to Paris when taking a "conventional" trip below the second couple) The Bishop: When I cast off, I try to actually 1/2 gypsy with the 2nd woman while she moves up Easter Thursday: When turning 2 hands with the neighboring same sex person, I offer my left hand palm up and my right hand palm down- sort of the equivalent of the unisex swing Up with Aily: As the second woman, when the first couple and the second man are advancing toward me I bounce and nod to each as in Parson's Farewell Childgrove: As twos, joining in to make a double figure eight Ver rarely- with a willing experienced set- doing Prince William to Fandango or vice versa Martha Davey 25-14 37 ST, Astoria, NY 11103 (718)278-4389 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:55:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:55:26 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Surprises To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980202145526.46845-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <34D61D59.DC13C1EB-AT- execpc.com> Quoting Mike or Norma Briggs (brigglaw-AT- execpc.com): > I second Art Munisteri's comment about "Doubling" Bay, as one who is > even more than "more-than-mid-sized". I see it as a case of one good > turn not deserving another. > > Mike I, on the other hand, see this particular gripe as one of courtesy having little to do with the varient being practiced. In the DC area, where I used to dance regularly, the habit was to do the extra turn only if you had come to someone you had a resonable expectation could deal AND you had signaled to them your desire AND they had responded positively - a very quick round-and-round motion with your fingers followed by a nod from your partner is very short to do and completely adequate to signal desire and acceptance. Pulling someone around when they don't want to is rude. Saying that all embelishments are bad is equally rude (though arguably less painful at times.) (No, Mike, I'm not saying you said this.) All this IMHO, of course. JB, who like flourishes but who also (usually) knows when not to do them. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:29:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:30:20 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: fun? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Capersall-AT- aol.com Message-ID: <0007F9E6.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Snip] ..." I find it always pleasant and often a suprise when I encounter a couple who gets the timing right on the heys in Trip to Kilburn or Orleans Baffled. Art Munisteri --------------------------------------------------------- I realize it's hard enough teaching people the figures in a dance, but should our teachers put more emphasis on correct timing? In my English dancing, I find myself concentrating on timing more and more. Moving exactly with the music, neither ahead nor behind it, provides me an extra dimension of enjoyment in the dance that I can get in no other way. The music then propels/carries me more. I imagine it's like a surfer catching a wave just right. Sometimes it's like a moving meditation (although not all dances lend themselves to this). It's hard to attain, harder to sustain. I can't say I'm moving right with the music very often. It's also very different from the rock & roll I grew up with, which wouldn't exist without a backbeat. Underneath it all I think I'm still addicted to that backbeat. Sometimes in my English dancing I lag or rush the beat just to play with it. Can't move with the music all the time, I guess. This seems to coincide with my more flirtatious and playful moves. Marty Fager ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:40:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:39:55 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Special moments in ECD... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > On Mon, 02 Feb 1998 02:20:29 -0500 (EST) Dawn Culbertson > writes: > > (snip) > > >I'd be curious to hear what anyone else does for fun too. A favorite moment of mine occurs in the Bishop as 2's or 3's, when gating the 1's up through the center, the other gating couple (2's or 3's) come *very* close together, but they usually fail to take advantage of it because they are walking backward and don't see that they are approaching esch other. Just after that all take hands in a circle to circle left halfway. I like to reach out during this close encounter in the gate to find my partner's hand (without looking) to join up in anticipation of the circle to follow -- if it's a new partner who doesn't know the dance too well, it often gives a little cue to jog her memory a bit about the next figure, which then can occur without the mad lurch to grasp my hand as I get yanked off to an early start by an overly-enthusiastic M1 (or by one who didn't fully enjoy his partner during the gate and got there early). And if I find her hand already out there in anticipation of mine, I find it particularly delightful... Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:54:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 13:53:39 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Dawn Culbertson recalls turning 3 times in the arming in Dublin Bay. I'll >admit >to some excess in this department. Once when the other man in the minor >set was >my teenage son (who is an excellent dancer with good phrasing and timing, and >occational excess energy) we did 5 turns on the arming. I actually like it >better with one, but then I am 32 years older than he is! I don't get opportunities to ECD except at BACDS camps (and when I taught Bare Necessities (slightly incorrectly) at a contra dance a comple of weeks ago) so keep that in mind as I reply. I don't know how one can arm 3, let alone 5, times during Dublin Bay, without seriously rushing the activites before the arming or being late for the lines of four. When I dance it, I enjoy arming twice around *if* my neighbor is game. On a scale of 10, I give the dance a 9.5, and with the double arming, I give it a 9.8. -- Gary D. Shapiro We're Mac! We're Back! Get Used to It! (repeat) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:03:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IT3UP983GK9ULOA8-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gary wrote: >I don't know how one can arm 3, let alone 5, times during Dublin Bay, >without seriously rushing the activites before the arming or being late for >the lines of four. Five seems like a lot to me, but I've often done three and been on time. What it takes is mutual resolution to do it, and the ability not to be disoriented after flipping into place. >When I dance it, I enjoy arming twice around *if* my neighbor is game. This is the crucial point. When I contradance, I try to adjust how hard and fast I swing to my partner's level of comfort, as communicated through both verbal and non-verbal cues. (I also figure whoever wants to go slower should win, so if I'm tired and don't want to spin, I'll make it clear.) Similarly, an unspoken negotiation occurs in Dublin Bay. Nobody should be made to go around more than once if they don't want to, and nobody should ever be grabbed and flung. I like twice around; if the other man wants to go once, that's cool too. [Back in contradance land: I always feel that the way the figure is taught should be at least an acceptable variant when the dance is done. This comes up especially in, eg, ladies' chain, where the courtesy turn that gets taught is rejected by some women in favor of twirling. I think the twirling needs to be negotiated too; not everyone agrees, at least in practice.] -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:06:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:00:14 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <460e67bd.34d65000-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/2/98 4:43:45 PM, you wrote: <> Happy to say that I have never before even heard of the above "enhancement" to Petronella, and I certainly hope I never see it. BUT...... I personally prefer twice around on the arming in Dublin Bay. To me it fits the music and spirit of the rest of the dance better. I know that this is officially frowned upon, especially by CDSS, and I admit to not having checked up on the reconstruction of the dance. And I agree that a quick negotiation is necessary before the turn, and the person who wants the lower number of turns gets his/her way. Also in Dublin Bay, I have always begun the dance (as 1s) with the first step of the set toward my partner, and the second step toward my corner. I was dismayed to find that this is not universal, and that some prefer to set directly toward corners. A wonderful moment missed! And in a dance which has only minimal partner contact. Carl Friedman (Apologies if the formatting is still strange.) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:57:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:01:39 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: twirls and chains (was Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980203000139.18985.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > >When I dance it, I enjoy arming twice around *if* my neighbor is game. > > This is the crucial point. When I contradance, I try to adjust how hard and > fast I swing to my partner's level of comfort, as communicated through both > verbal and non-verbal cues. > > [Back in contradance land: I always feel that the way the figure is taught > should be at least an acceptable variant when the dance is done. This comes up > especially in, eg, ladies' chain, where the courtesy turn that gets taught is > rejected by some women in favor of twirling. I think the twirling needs to > be negotiated too; not everyone agrees, at least in practice.] This is actually an equal-opportunity problem. There are also plenty of men who try impose a twirl rather the traditional courtesy turn, without giving their partner a choice, with sometimes painful consequences. This gets really bad on the occasions when the men are doing the chaining, either in a men's chain or gender-free setting, and don't consider the effect of size differences. At a contra dance last week we had a man end up flat on his back during a men's chain, from trying to twirl under the arm of a much shorter woman. My understanding of the twirl vs. courtesy turn in a ladies' chain, as I initially learned it, is that the man signals his desire to twirl his partner by *gently* lifting her hand; she has the choice to accept the twirl or resists the lift *gently* and they do the traditional courtesy turn. Unfortunately it rarely gets taught that way anymore. In ballroom dancing, as those who've taken lessons will know, a lot of emphasis is placed on learning how to signal moves and how to communicate nonverbally with a partner for both the man and woman. In contradancing, in our desire to be as populist as possible, we don't require or expect people to go through a series of lessons before feeling free to get up on the floor, and while it makes the dancing accessible to many, I think it's a real problem that we have to a great extent lost the understanding of communicating and negotiating moves, with the result that people end up literally hurting each other. Since there's less physical contact in ECD it's less of a problem, but as these posts have demonstrated, the problem still does exist. I don't know the solution, although I keep trying to sneak in more and better teaching at the contra dances I help organize, but I think we do all need to be reminded at times that dancing with another person is an act of negotiation. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:13:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 16:17:23 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dance ornamentation (was Re: Clapping midst hands across ...) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980203001723.21836.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Susie Lorand wrote: > > On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > > Would anybody else care to share the thing that's too much fun for them not to > > do when they're in the mood? > it's also fun sometimes (when everyone in the minor set can do it without > confusion) to turn figures of eight into double figures of eight. i > forget which dances lend themselves to this. I second that one. Also, with a partner who can handle it, switching gender roles each time through the progression in "Fenterlarik." And, number 1 thing that's *always* too much fun not to do, dancing with Helen Davenport as my partner, even if there are more men than women at the dance! Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:07:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:10:24 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802030449.XAA00517-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dawn wrote: > 2. In Dublin Bay, instead of arming once around with your neighbor, > arm around as many times as you can get away with (most people > manage 2, but I once did 3). In fact, someone whose name escapes me > once referred to this move as "the Baltimore flip." It's a shame Baltimore's gotten it's good name tarnished thus. The extra turns are hardly unique to Baltimore. Too often, dancers "assume" that since you're from Baltimore, it's OK to turn lots of times. As always, it's best to check first. BTW, the record for arming turns in Dublin Bay (in time to the music, at least) is 5. That's more than one complete revolution for each 2 steps. Of course, I'd NEVER engage is such disruptive behavior during a dance. ;-] Besides, in Baltimore, we used the term "Baltimore flip" to refer to something entirely different--the technique of having the couple that's just about to become inactive at the bottom of one line, instantly "flip" to the other line to become 2s over there. At the end of that round of the dance, the couple just coming out of the 2nd line "flips" to the first line, and so on. The result is that no one is ever out at the bottom and you dance with everyone in the room. We used this technique quite often when we were in the small hall at Church of the Redeemer. It was common to have 10 couples, which was too long for a single line. Instead of making 2 5-couple sets, we'd have a 6-couple set and a 4-couple set and do the "flip" to even it out. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:07:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 02:07:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Once when the other man in the minor set was > my teenage son (who is an excellent dancer with good phrasing and timing, and > occational excess energy) we did 5 turns on the arming. I actually like it > better with one, but then I am 32 years older than he is! Wow! I think that's a world record!:-) Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:11:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 02:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: fun? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Just for the record, when doing Dublin Bay I only arm more than once around with people who want it. I don't believe in forcing this on anyone. (One reason I rarely go contra dancing is because of too many experiences with hotdogging partners who try to fling you around or swing too many times regardless of your own inclinations.) It's important to keep in mind, when doing variations like that, to be aware of what the people you're dancing feel comfortable with. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 23:29:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 02:28:51 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Rich Galloway wrote: > Besides, in Baltimore, we used the term "Baltimore flip" to refer to > something entirely different--the technique of having the couple > that's just about to become inactive at the bottom of one line, > instantly "flip" to the other line to become 2s over there. At the > end of that round of the dance, the couple just coming out of the 2nd > line "flips" to the first line, and so on. The result is that no one > is ever out at the bottom and you dance with everyone in the room. Sorry for the misrepresentation, Rich. It's just that I heard the term uttered in conjunction with the arming in Dublin Bay - I've never heard the other definition. I plead ignorance.:-) Dawn dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 04:30:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:34:16 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D71CD8.4E21-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <02A1934D5F759015*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNMFS/s=Fricke/g=Peter/-AT- MHS> As far as I understand, barn dance nowadays is used in England what in America is known as a one night stand. Although much of the same material may also be encountered at ceilidhs, the ceilidh dance scene is a scene in its own, with especially the music different from other any other country dancing (although some of the contemporary contra dance music in the States is not that different, I feel -- lots of improvisation and several "unusual" instruments). Could any of the Englishmen fill in? Philippe Callens Antwerp, Belgium ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 06:24:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:23:51 -0600 From: Bob Borcherding Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Whatever happened to the dancing? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802031423.IAA26222-AT- mail.stlnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" A couple points, 1. In Dublin Bay, I find it disruptive to have someone do the double clap on the line turns. It takes away the connection on the turns--the connection giving leverage needed to make a sprightly turn, as well as allowing for the joy of teamwork/touching on the turn. Also, it takes only one person to clap to become a audible "part" of the music, which not everyone may want--if ad hoc "musicianship" is encouraged, perhaps I could ornamentize by singing along with all the tunes! :-) Someone wrote: >BTW, the record for >arming turns in Dublin Bay (in time to the music, at least) is 5. 2. Whatever happened to dancing to the beat? For me, this is one of the biggest differences between ECD and contra--in ECD, *dancing* to the music is important, whereas in contra, folks tend to *walk* from place to place with background music that approaches *their* rhythm (at least around here). For me, a successful ornament/diversion in either dance form must adhere to the beat to be successful. During a turn, a swing, or anything else where feet move, there is a beat to follow. Of course, this dancing is all for fun, so I suppose I can't object if occasionally someone (mea culpa!) does something that a) avoids dancing to the beat, and b) is mildly disruptive, once in a while, but for it to be a regular occurrence, I think I'd have an internal grimace at the loss of the dance, for gimmicks. Someone else wrote: >Underneath it all I think I'm > still addicted to that backbeat. Sometimes in my English dancing I lag > or rush the beat just to play with it. The backbeat is an integral part of the dance--it is danced, rather than a figure. curmudgeonly yours, Bob Borcherding gapbob-AT- stlnet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 10:38:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 13:38:15 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Whatever happened to the dancing? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802031838.NAA19131-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:23 AM 2/3/98 -0600, Bob Borcherding wrote: >A couple points, > >1. In Dublin Bay, I find it disruptive to have someone do the double >clap on the line turns. It takes away the connection on the turns--the >connection giving leverage needed to make a sprightly turn, as well as >allowing for the joy of teamwork/touching on the turn. Also, it takes >only one person to clap to become a audible "part" of the music, which >not everyone may want--if ad hoc "musicianship" is encouraged, perhaps I >could ornamentize by singing along with all the tunes! :-) Point of clarification: I believe the double clap referred to in the original posting "Clapping midst hands across" was in Indian Queen, _not_ Dublin Bay. So far I haven't noticed anyone doing double claps on line turns in Dublin Bay (though I have participated in quite a few mutually-agreed-on double and triple turns). As to singing along, actually I find it rather heart-warming when a whole floorful of folks joins in on the final chorus of Sellengers. And I kind of like it whenever Fried starts singing the Dutch words that go with Waters of Holland. Betcha Pat Shaw sang along sometimes too. Happy dancing-- Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:34:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 11:39:03 +0100 From: mdevlin-AT- teleport.com (Mary Devlin) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" <> Alas... all too true at many many dances. I admit to requesting people refrain from clapping during Petronella figures -- once. (They just clapped louder and more fiendishly.) Anyone have any ideas on how to check this virus?? Regards, Mary ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:02:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 19:08:58 From: Raymond Wright Subject: Re[2]: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <94-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk> In England the terms Ceilidh and Barn can be interchangeable although in practice the more experienced dancers will be found at a Ceilidh-- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Raymond Wright EMail raymond-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk | | Morris Dancer, Caller and Bell-Ringer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:46:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:45:54 -0600 From: Bob Borcherding Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Whatever happened to the dancing? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802032045.OAA29082-AT- mail.stlnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sharon: >I believe the double clap referred to in the original posting "Clapping >midst hands across" was in Indian Queen, _not_ Dublin Bay. So far I haven't >noticed anyone doing double claps on line turns in Dublin Bay (though I have >participated in quite a few mutually-agreed-on double and triple turns). Be glad you've "missed out." My reference was to the bit Jonathan Sivier had written: > Our group likes to clap twice on the turn (from going forward down the >hall >to going backward down the hall) in Dublin Bay. I don't know if this is >common or not, but it fits the music nicely. Bob Borcherding gapbob-AT- stlnet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:02:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:39:58 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd30e3$e4825ca0$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >one night stand. um I only have a sexual denotation for this term - surely that's not what you meant? >ceilidhs, I played in an english ceilidh band in Australia for some years called Death By Dancing. Our brief was to play simple, energetic dances in an infectious manner. Usually late at night. The line up was modelled on "Cock n Bull", or "Gasmark 5", and was very rock 'n' roll like - drum kit, bass guitar, keyboard, saxaphone, but also had accordians, banjo, mandolin, bazooki, oboe, whistles, recorders and galician bagpipes. The dances were drawn from the ECD and Playford lists and were heavily biased towards things like "donkey riding", "speed the plough", hornpipes and rants, though there were some slower ones for balence. Judging from the tone of some of the posters on twirling in I doubt you'd have found it much fun. It was much more earthy than Jane Austen. :) Martin Hungerford. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:06:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:44:38 -0500 (EST) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, Mary Devlin wrote: > < me, Petronella has been all but ruined by what many now consider to be > obligatory clapping on the turning figure, destroying much of the > wonderful character of that figure for a cheap trick, rarely executed well > in itself. And now dancers find themselves doing it to the tune or figure > in other contexts (like "Fiddleheads", a wonderful dance which has no need > of such embellishment). >> > > Alas... all too true at many many dances. I admit to requesting people > refrain from clapping during Petronella figures -- once. (They just > clapped louder and more fiendishly.) > > Anyone have any ideas on how to check this virus?? would it help to stress, in teaching the dance, how enjoyable it is to make the hand connection with the dancers on either side of you as you come out of the petronella turn, before the balance? it happens that the clapping ruins that enjoyment, though you wouldn't have to say so. i too would love to see either a vaccine or a cure for that particular virus... sue dupre called petronella at the princeton contra dance last wednesday (1/28), and to my delight, there was scarcely any clapping! (other times in the same hall, the clapping has taken over.) - susie lorand a contradance curmudgeon in n.j. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 15:09:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:03:54 -0500 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dublin Bay... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203180354.007974a0-AT- popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:10 AM 2/3/1998 +0000, you wrote: >Dawn wrote: > >> 2. In Dublin Bay, instead of arming once around with your neighbor, >> arm around as many times as you can get away with (most people >> manage 2, but I once did 3). In fact, someone whose name escapes me >> once referred to this move as "the Baltimore flip." > >It's a shame Baltimore's gotten it's good name tarnished thus. The >extra turns are hardly unique to Baltimore. Too often, dancers >"assume" that since you're from Baltimore, it's OK to turn lots of >times. As always, it's best to check first. BTW, the record for >arming turns in Dublin Bay (in time to the music, at least) is 5. >That's more than one complete revolution for each 2 steps. Of course, >I'd NEVER engage is such disruptive behavior during a dance. ;-] > The term "Baltimore Flip" was introduced by Denis Orton of Williamsburg, as the Williamsburg crowd that frequents the Baltimore balls first came across this multiple arming in Dublin Bay in Baltimore. But, I also know that the Baltimore area dancers learned this variation in places outside of Baltimore. (Philadelphia area comes to mind, for one example.) But, I think it became somewhat wilder with the influence of some of the Williamsburg crowd.... Also in defense of Baltimore area dancers (and those from Wmsbg), most have VERY GOOD manners about this, and only do it when it is mutually agreed upon. (And when calling this dance, I remind people to have such manners!) Rich, is the record really 5? I thought it was 4.... and of course, have no personal experience ;-) >Besides, in Baltimore, we used the term "Baltimore flip" to refer to >something entirely different--the technique of having the couple >that's just about to become inactive at the bottom of one line, >instantly "flip" to the other line to become 2s over there. At the Oh yea? I haven't heard of this use of the phrase.... Diane dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:13:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980204000521.25938.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Martin Hungerford wrote: > I played in an english ceilidh band in Australia for some years called Death > By Dancing. Our brief was to play simple, energetic dances in an infectious > manner. snip > Judging from the tone of some of the posters on twirling in I doubt you'd > have found it much fun. It was much more earthy than Jane Austen. :) The issue over forced twirling is not one of "earthiness." I like to twirl with the best of them given the chance, swing fast in contradances and happily arm twice around on "Dublin Bay." I do not, however, like to have my body contorted or to be yanked or shoved by partners more concerned with how much fun they are having than with whether they are causing pain, and I don't know anyone who does. It is too bad when people develop the attitude that high-energy fun on the dance-floor cannot be had without rough-housing one's partner. It's simply not true, and as I've heard from more than one bruised ex-contra dancer, it's one of the reasons people stop going to contras. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:21:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 00:23:59 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Clapping midst hands across ... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802040503.AAA22398-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Sorry for the misrepresentation, Rich. It's just that I heard the > term uttered in conjunction with the arming in Dublin Bay - I've > never heard the other definition. I plead ignorance.:-) No, you were right. People do use the term Baltimore flip to refer to the Dublin Bay turn. I just think it's a shame that we get the "credit". It's fun, but not with the dolts that think they can jerk you around with no by your leave. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:21:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 00:24:00 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dublin Bay... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802040503.AAA22401-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Diane wrote: > Rich, is the record really 5? I thought it was 4.... and of course, > have no personal experience ;-) Yes, it really was 5. Paul Ballard was on the other end. We did it more as a "one upmanship" joke than anything. But, Paul has such grace and balance, we pulled it off cleanly (and yes, Bob, it was danced on the beat). Since then, I don't think we've turned more than twice. These kinds of gimmicks are cute once--Only. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:25:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 22:24:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Interweaving threads To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Now, if you combined a "One Night Stand" with a "Baltimore Flip"... Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 03:50:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:49:13 +0000 (BRITAIN) From: HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IT6IN54KS2000KYJ-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The Englishman sitting next to me who says he "is not a great frequenter of either" was of the opinion (under duress) that a Ceilidh is probably one of a series while a Barn Dance is more likely to be a one-off. (Series in this context is probably at greater than monthly intervals). I think that a band that calls itself a Ceilidh band is more likely to be musically adventurous than one that does not. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 06:00:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:02:34 -0500 From: "Thomas J. Senior" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all, I like to find many places to have extra fun in my ECD, and age and experience has toned down much of it in the past decade or so. In Jack's Maggot, I like to add a turn single for the first man as the first woman crosses over into her hey for 3 with the two men (A2). It adds a continuity of movement i find particularly pleasant. I once did this at Pinewoods in the early 70's, and May Gadd, in her position at the top of the hall, chastised me with words to the effect of - its not done that way. Words from another time, perhaps. Tom Senior Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. Thomas J. Senior New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 847-446-7000 x2128 seniort-AT- newtrier.k12.il.us Now with a web site temporarily located at: http://nths.newtrier.k12.il.us/summerwww/seniort/first.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 06:28:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 14:26:41 +0000 (BRITAIN) From: HUGH-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IT6O6VLSG2000LT8-AT- SDL.UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> Hello all, >> I like to find many places to have extra fun in my ECD, and age and >> experience has toned down much of it in the past decade or so. In Jack's >> Maggot, I like to add a turn single for the first man as the first woman >> crosses over into her hey for 3 with the two men (A2). It adds a >> continuity of movement i find particularly pleasant. >> I once did this at Pinewoods in the early 70's, and May Gadd, in her >. position at the top of the hall, chastised me with words to the effect of >> - its not done that way. But that's how I always do it! Clapping hands with my partner in the balance forward and back in Elverton Grove (I don't do it that often, and it was some partner from Boston who led me astray) Clap together right, together left for the four claps in the Comical Fellow (I don't know why anyone would ever even think of doing it as claps by yourself, but since everyone has standardised on that I have to work to persuade my partner to play) Hugh Stewart Cambridge UK ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 06:35:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:35:24 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Thomas J. Senior wrote: [Hi Tom!] . . . In Jack's > Maggot, I like to add a turn single for the first man as the first woman > crosses over into her hey for 3 with the two men (A2). It adds a > continuity of movement i find particularly pleasant. > I once did this at Pinewoods in the early 70's, and May Gadd, in her > position at the top of the hall, chastised me with words to the effect of > - its not done that way. > Words from another time, perhaps. Exactly. In the early '90's (why does that seem so long ago?) Erna-Lynne Bogue taught it that way, which is how I learned it. And now sometimes I teach it that way... (depending on how much time and effort is going into getting the heys right -- fortunately, we've been having that problem because of a steady influx of new folks). Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 07:28:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:28:26 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The ANDs, ORs, and BUTs To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tom Senior's recent post on the little turn for M1 in Jack's Maggot brings up a question I thought would be fun to put out to this group. But first the context: I am currently leading a series of workshop-dances with themes relating to some aspect of the dance -- things like moving to music, sampling/exploring different set configurations, various kinds and uses of heys (last night's theme), and so forth. The next theme, coming up in just under two weeks, is "The ANDs, ORs, and BUTs of ECD: connecting the pieces" and the focus will be on how important the connections between the figures can be. The ANDs are the places where smooth transitions cry out for recognition and implementation; the BUTs where some sort of punctuation -- perhaps a brief closure of feet, or a coming together before a cast, or some other movement which deliberately interrupts the flow, perhaps to acknowledge the musical phrase, or the geometrical configuration on the floor (a reason for doing shoulder-to shoulder siding in Newcastle instead of "parentheses" siding, by the way, to emphasize for an instant the "X" that is formed by the dancers in the siding figures). The ORs are places where there really are several good options, and where the dance can still look good with people dancing their own mini-variations simultaneously. The little turn in Jack's Maggot might be one of this kind, as the double turn in Dublin Bay might also, and the multiple turns in The Collier's Daughter. Places where there seems to be a little bit of music to use up are good canidates for ORs. Some of my favorites: ANDs: The transition from the end of Kelsterne Gardens to the beginning for the former 1's and 3's as they become 3's and 2's, respectively, and the transition from the mirror heys to the double figure-8 for the 1's and 2's in the same dance. The transition between the end of the crossover heys and the 1's crossing and going to 2nd place in Prince William. And of course, the transition between the end and beginning of Fenterlarick for the 1st man and the 2nd woman. ORs: A cast for the men as the women turn halfway by the right in "open ladies' chain" figures, as in Elizabeth and the Dutch dance to "Early One Morning" (not to be confused with the Scott Higgs' dance to the same tune). A double turn at the end of Barbarini's Tambourine, or even more fun, a one-and-one-half turn, with the resulting consequences! BUTs: In Nonesuch, after falling back with neighbor and coming forward, and just before turning partner once around (in the second section of the dance), a closure of feet on the end of the musical phrase before the turn. In St. Margaret's Hill, and also in Prince William, a closure of feet before leading out of the set (bottom/top in SMH, W/M's side in PW) and casting back to the center. In Quite Carried Away, the moment for the 1st couple at the end of B1 just before the start of B2, where the 1's have just returned to their own places and are about to start another glorious series of ANDs combining bits of heys, contra corners, turns and gypsys, a closure of feet in place and a moment to enjoy the figure just completed and to anticipate the coming one, and to enjoy the music as well... So here's the question: what are _your_ favorite ANDs, ORs, and BUTs? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:11:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 10:11:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802041611.KAA06690-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Martin Hungerford writes: >>one night stand. >um I only have a sexual denotation for this term - surely that's not what >you meant? In calling, a one night stand is a gig where you are calling for a group of people who have never danced before and (most) never will again. This is usually a party of some sort, birthday, wedding reception, etc. At a dance like this the goals for the evening are different than the goals you might have at a dance that is part of an ongoing series. In both cases you want the people to have fun, but in the later you also want them to gain skill at dancing so they will be better at the next dance. At a one night stand there will be no "next dance" so there's little point in spending time on teaching technique. Use easy dances that need little, if any teaching. I like to use dances that have just the figures; stars (hands across), do-si-do (back to back), lines forward and back or down the hall, allemandes and circles. I like to have the progression be either top couple to the bottom and everyone move up one place or pass through and meet a new couple. These are all things that everyone knows or are self-descriptive, very little teaching needed. Some dances I like to use are Galopede, Cumberland Reel, Sanita Hill Circle, Jefferson's Reel and Haste To The Wedding. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 08:34:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:39:01 -0500 (EST) From: David.Millstone-AT- VALLEY.NET (David Millstone) Subject: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <2137896-AT- lyme.VALLEY.NET> --- Mary Devlin wrote: I admit to requesting people refrain from clapping during Petronella figures -- once. (They just clapped louder and more fiendishly.) Anyone have any ideas on how to check this virus?? --- end of quote --- As a contra caller, I have the advantage of having a "home dance" where I have been calling each month for nearly twenty years. At a special dance the other night, for mostly experienced dancers, during the brief walkthrough for "Fiddleheads," I heard one or two claps in the hall and simply asked that people refrain, if for no other reason than that the caller preferred it that way. They complied. I think that's because with the same band and caller each month, there is a relationship of mutual respect that develops between dancers and the folks on the stage. This respect may be harder to obtain in a series that is constantly bringing in different bands and callers. I know that the support I feel from my home crowd encourages me to take more risks, which permits me to devise a more adventuresome program than I might when calling in other locales. David Millstone Lebanon, NH ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:10:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 12:10:04 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Jonathan Sivier wrote: [snip] . . . Some dances I like to use are Galopede, Cumberland Reel, Sanita > Hill Circle, Jefferson's Reel and Haste To The Wedding. What's Sanita Hill Circle? Don't know that one... Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:14:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 18:13:10 +0100 From: Martin Kiff Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn danc To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D8A1A6.54A118E5-AT- webfeet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <009C13F9.D267F0B7.1-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu> > Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:34:16 +0100 > From: Philippe Callens > Subject: ceilidh/barn dance > > As far as I understand, barn dance nowadays is used in England what in > America is known as a one night stand. > > Although much of the same material may also be encountered at ceilidhs, > the ceilidh dance scene is a scene in its own, with especially the music > different from other any other country dancing (although some of the > contemporary contra dance music in the States is not that different, I > feel -- lots of improvisation and several "unusual" instruments). > > Could any of the Englishmen fill in? Certainly - check out the Webfeet pages... http://www.ftech.co.uk/~webfeet/eceilidh/Overview.html which give an evolving and possibly a little lighthearted view of the distinctions - and yes, I like the term 'earthiness', hadn't thought of the term before but I definitely agree... Regards, Martin Kiff mgk-AT- webfeet.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:20:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:20:27 -0800 (PST) From: rushton-AT- biology.utah.edu (Emma Rushton) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Our Salt Lake dance is too new to have acquired any local additions/variations to dances, but when I danced in The Round in Cambridge (England), there were several customs which would have looked odd to other groups. In The Doldrum, we made a "swish" sound as the circle went in a double and back - to imitate waves I think. In The Fandango, people would stamp their feet between circling left and right. In Jenny Pluck Pears, some callers would tell the dancers to skip around the room and find another partner, instead of just skipping around in a ring. We always had to find our own partners in the final skipping around. In Levi Jackson's Rag, after dancing it once the conventional way, we would sometimes repeat the dances with sexes reversed, so that the men got to do an "all 5 men's chain". This often had hilarious results, as both men and women would get terribly confused. In The Parson's Farewell, the nods were often very exaggerated, with some people leaping into the air. In Nonesuch, during the slipping left and right from the line of eight, we would see how far we could get. And if we were slipping past a dancer from another set, we would clap hands with them on the beat. I expect all this is still going on (is it, Hugh?), though of course some people disapproved. The main objection was that people would learn the dances that way, and think it was the "proper" way to do it. I think it was all perfectly fine, and it added a great deal of the good humour and informality that made the group such fun to dance with, but I haven't taught any of those tricks here (yet). Emma Emma Rushton, Department of Biology, University of Utah, 257 South, 1400 East Salt Lake City, UT 84112 phone (801) 585-9425, fax (801) 581-4668 "time is fun when you're having flies" - Kermit the Frog ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 09:50:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:50:37 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802041750.LAA21207-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sanita Hill Circle is a simple Sicilian circle dance listed in "Zesty Contras" in the other formations section. I don't recall the author off the top of my head. Progression is pass-through and meet a new couple, so I like to use it to introduce progression prior to trying a duple minor dance. Another thing I look for in dances for one night stands is that is shouldn't make any difference who a dancer has for a partner or on which side of the set they stand. Thus I avoid dances where there are different parts for the women and the men. This is especially true when doing dances for kids. They can figure out partner and neighbor, but many times want to dance with their friends who may not be of the opposite sex. While experienced dancers have no trouble with this it can be very confusing for beginners. I once called a dance for a grade school and made the mistake of trying a square with a grand right and left (men go one way, women the other). Of the 8 squares 5 were composed entirely of young girls and this was very confusing for them, even though the school had a contra dance club and so some of them had some experience. However most of the kids (and the few parents) were dancing for the first time. I look for dances where they don't have to KNOW what to do next or where they should be, but the dance just automatically takes them there. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:46:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:43:31 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: One night stands and other fun To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980204194331.28329.rocketmail-AT- web4.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Jonathan Sivier wrote: > Another thing I look for in dances for one night stands is that is shouldn't > make any difference who a dancer has for a partner . . . Etc. I thought the whole point of one-night-stands is that it _doesn't_ make much difference who one has for a partner . . . Sorry, couldn't resist that. For those interested, David Kaynor has a book out on calling for beginners, in both senses of the word (beginner callers for beginner dancers) that addresses the kinds of problems callers face in doing "one night stands." -- And for those interested in the other kind, the indefatigable Miss Manners, of course, has advice on the etiquette problems that might arise in engaging in such activities. (I just enjoy reading her column.) Barbara Ruth New Haven _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:07:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 03 Feb 98 20:25:37 From: Raymond Wright Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <96-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk> In article: <34D71CD8.4E21-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be writes: > From owner-ecd-AT- ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu Tue Feb 03 19:24:45 1998 > Received: from relay-12.mail.demon.net by belldans.demon.co.uk with SMTP > id AA886533885 ; Tue, 03 Feb 98 19:24:45 BST > Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore > for raymond-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk id 886509965:15:05068:1; > Tue, 03 Feb 98 12:46:05 GMT > Received: from ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu ([134.79.33.14]) > by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa0510050; 3 Feb 98 12:45 GMT > X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance > > Warnings-To: <> > Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu > Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu > Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be > Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 14:34:16 +0100 > From: Philippe Callens > Subject: ceilidh/barn dance > To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu > Message-ID: <34D71CD8.4E21-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > References: <02A1934D5F759015*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNMFS/s=Fricke/g=Peter/-AT- MHS> > > In his posting of February 3rd Phillipe Callens said > >"Although much of the same material may also be encountered at ceilidhs, > the ceilidh dance scene is a scene in its own, with especially the music > different from other any other country dancing (although some of the > contemporary contra dance music in the States is not that different, I > feel -- lots of improvisation and several "unusual" instruments)." > > Could any of the Englishmen fill in? > > > The music for English Ceilidhs has it basis in that played by traditional musicians, with a greater emphasis on the different rythms and played at a pace suitable for stepping to. Remember, it was the music of traditional folk musicians that kept Country Dance alive in rural communities when the dances was no longer found in ballrooms. I would like to know what you mean by "unusual instruments"? The line up of one Band that I work with is Fiddle, Melodeon, Banjo and Sousaphone. Could this be the type of thing that you mean? --------------------------------------------------------------------| Raymond Wright EMail raymond-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk || Morris Dancer, Caller and Bell-Ringer --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 17:56:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:32:11 -0800 From: Stephanie Smith Subject: Glen Echo Park - Spanish Ballroom update To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D940CB.3C89-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: The dance community, representing many different genres including ECD, turned out in droves to the public meeting held by the National Park Service on Feb. 3 to discuss the future management of Glen Echo Park which includes the Spanish Ballroom. If you would like to keep up with the goings on, there is now a website for the National Campaign to Save Glen Echo Park at: http://w4c.com/glen_echo_campaign/glen_echo.html Thanks for any support you can provide in the form of letter writing, as mentioned on the site. This is not just a local or regional issue; it may be that others of you will go through the experience of having to fight to hang on to a good dance venue, maybe one with historic value as well as ambience. Hopefully we will have something to share with you from our experience farther down the road. Thanks. Stephanie Stephanie Smith glenecho-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 20:30:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:23:42 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Re: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D93EC8.7CAE-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: The topic of "what frills do you like to toss in" is so tempting...one could go on for a long time. My favorites, though, tend to be in the setting dept. It's a move, of course, that simply begs to be individualized for each preson one sets to. When I'm dancing in a locale where I know most of the folks, and can therefore gauge when I will get a willing partner in crime, I love to toss in Irish or Scottish steps, or even some from the Balkan repertoire. -------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / Ann Arbor MI -------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:36:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:24:55 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Whatever happened to the dancing? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sharon Green wrote > >As to singing along, actually I find it rather heart-warming when a whole >floorful of folks joins in on the final chorus of Sellengers. And I kind of >like it whenever Fried starts singing the Dutch words that go with Waters of >Holland. Betcha Pat Shaw sang along sometimes too. OK Sharon, for an occasional isolated instance. At our December dance, we often do Female Saylor and a few people sing the Xmas carol wrods (Masters in this Hall) that goes to that tune. But thats one dance, once a year. We have one lovely dancer in Seattle who hums the tunes ALL the time while she is dancing and another exuberant soul who whistles. Its too bad. We have truly glorious music here in Seattle--creative, expressive, varied--and I'd rather listen to the band. I find the clapping disruptive too. I know we all interject an occasional personal move that would have raised Playford's eyebrows, but I hate to see those occasional moments of fun becomming de rigeur-- done every time the dance is done. Any time you find that you can describe something like this as something you "usually do for fun" in a dance, I'd say that you are probably doing it too often. The double clap betwen phrases is alien to English style-- something that contra dancers injected, and about as appropriate as clogging to Well Hall. There are claps in English dances, (Juice of Barley, Christchurch Bells) but that double clap is particularly American and doesn't belong to the style. I had a 13-year old student who used to wiggle his hips during a Japanese dance, because hip-wiggling is part of his own ethnic style (NW American popular dance). He didn't understand why the Japanese students at the school were offended at this violation of their dance, couldn't see the arrogance of refusing to adapt to a style that wasn't the one he was used to. I don't insist on holding belts with the contra dancers I'm dancing with, even though Balkan is my favorite and most familiar style. I don't make Croatian highpitched screams in Red House when excited, though that is appropriate expression of enthusiasm for Croatian dances. I don't shout "yassu" (Greek) or "ajde" (Serbian) or even "hooray" or "go man, go" during english dances, though I'd be expected to make these vocal noises in other dance forms. Of course we want to keep those spontaneous moments of fun in English dance, and the opportunity for individual expressiveness. But a style lives only as long as we dance it, and we can lose it forever in a matter of a few years of dancing badly, or thoughtlessly, or so creatively that what we do is not the style any more. I've been around long enough to see dance traditions become extinct, like species of birds, and it saddens me. Instead of the double clap between phrases, please substitute a radiant smile at your neighbor at that point in the dance. By respecting the tradition that has given us such beautiful music and dance, you allow it to continue. Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 03:17:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:21:12 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: ceilidh/barn dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D9AEB8.3D5F-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199802041750.LAA21207-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Sanita Hill Circle comes from the repertoire of the late Ed Durlacher. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 03:24:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:28:10 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: The ANDs, ORs, and BUTs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34D9B05A.72FC-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: My favourite BUT is in "Bar a Bar". In the A2 neighbours lead out and back and then go back to back with their partner. I am very fond of a slight hesitation before you actually go back to back. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:36:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 08:36:28 -0800 (PST) From: dodson-AT- socrates.berkeley.edu (allen and alisa dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "fun" in ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Erna-Lynne says about setting, > I love to toss in Irish >or Scottish steps, or even some from the Balkan repertoire. I am reminded of last night's dance in San Jose, where we did Shrewsbury Lasses. The step and honor turned into many things, among them clog steps and morris capers (was that Fred Perner in the set behind me, doing "kneelers??") Alisa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:13:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:32:01 -0800 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (long) ECD/contra history article; comments? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan Winston wrote: >English dances are usually written to go with specific tunes, so you get the >same tune each time. There's more variety in meter; some dances are in waltz >time, polka time, minuet time, or other options, although the dances are still >done with a simple walking step. The tempo may vary widely from dance to >dance, from very slow to very fast. I think most of the description is great, Alan, but I can't let you get away with that! It's true in my experience of ECD in the States that it's almost all done to a walking step, and I heard someone who was doing a teaching session last week tell the newcomers that "English dancing is always very gentle". But that's not nearly so true in England. Admittedly there are plenty of dancers there who _do_ use just a walking step, but a skip-change is much commoner than in my experience of the States (Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Seattle, Bay area and a few other places). It is normal in England for many dancers to "dance" (by which we mean use a skip-change, single skip or other steps) a hey or a figure eight, without the caller having to tell them to, and there are plenty of slipped circles and danced stars. And that's just Playford-style, though that's what many dancers in the States mean when they say "English". There are lots of English dances with swings in them - you just don't tend to see them in the States. There are traditional (and traditional-style) dances with many other steps: rant, polka, waltz, step-hop, run and others. If you look at Pat Shaw's instructions for his dances (of whatever style) you will find him specifying skip-change and other steps. And then there's the whole ceilidh scene, which someone else mentioned, where you will hardly see a walking step all evening. That's just as "English" as Playford, and arguably it has more claim to be considered real dancing. Don't get me wrong - I love the Playford style dances. But there's more to English dancing than that. I've been calling on the West Coast for the past week and a half, and trying to dispel some of the misconceptions. It seems that dancers in America have selected one narrow area and defined this as being "English Country Dance". The other narrowing I have noticed (not from Alan - don't think I'm attacking him really!) is that in the States there are a much higher percentage of "longways for as many as will" dances. I don't know whether this is the contra influence, but I've been to evenings where virtually every dance was longways. Again, this is narrowing English down, and I think that's wrong. Colin Hume (who is staying with Laurie Buchanan for a few days - don't blame her for this unprovoked assault!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 10:10:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:07:08 -0500 (EST) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The ANDs, ORs, and BUTs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-04 10:36:14 EST, Eric Arnold writes: << So here's the question: what are _your_ favorite ANDs, ORs, and BUTs? >> A very definite AND: Those glorious 20 bars of seamless movement for the 1st woman in Mad Robin. A delightful OR: Taking hands with neighbors in the back-to-back/face-en-face figure of Fried Herman's Measured Obsession (occasionally a surprise, but I hope, not an unpleasant one). And of course, that high-pitched Croatian scream in the B part of Red House.......now *there's* an "unpleasantry"! (;-) Carol Martinez ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:38:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 12:38:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Commands you can give the list server To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IT7YPFPZ449ULOAF-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Folks -- I found myself writing this to an individual again, and thought I'd send it along to everybody. Here are some useful commands for ECD: Basically, for commands affecting the list ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu, you send instructions to ECD-REQUEST-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Put the commands in the message body, not the subject line. To: ECD-REQUEST-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: HELP QUIT (The QUIT says to stop paying attention to the rest of the message, which is useful if you have automatic signatures on your messages.) Useful commands: SUBSCRIBE your name here Subscribes the address from which the message was sent. You can't use one address to subscribe a different address, other than by sending _me_ mail and asking me to do it for you. UNSUBSCRIBE Similarly, unsubscribes the address from which the message was sent. REVIEW returns the list of subscribers to the list, unless the review command is blocked or the subscribers have chosen to conceal themselves. Only ECD subscribers can use this command. SET CONCEAL if you don't want your name to show up when somebody does a REVIEW SET NOCONCEAL if you changed your mind SET NOMAIL Says: leave this address as a subscriber, but don't actually send mail here. This is useful when you have a list to which only subscribers can post, and you want to be able to post from (for example) work and home email, but only get mail one place, or if you have a weird situation where the return address on your work email can be three different things. For that, subscribe all three addresses, set two of them NOMAIL, and you're set. SET MAIL undoes SET NOMAIL. There are a few other options, which you can get by sending HELP. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:00:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: "Quite Carr-ied Away" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IT80Y4U8IE9ULOAF-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Folks -- I danced a variant of this lovely Pat Shaw dance at the Seattle English Ball a couple of weeks ago. (I didn't do a glowing writeup of the Ball, which I loved, because I was kind of grumpy from having spent an astonishing amount of time waiting for delayed planes on the trip, and also came back with a killer cold that kept me undanceable for the next two weeks -- neatly coinciding with Colin Hume's visit to the Bay Area, which I thus missed altogether. It was a wonderful Ball, though, with splendid music and a good selection of dances, mixing the (to me) familiar and the (to me) exotic. I can't find my ball booklet, or maybe this wouldn't be a question. I loved the dance in Seattle, found the music transcendent, and thought I would bring it up down here. In Seattle the dance was done as a three-couple set; it appears to have been written as a triple minor. I went to 'Pat Shaw's Pinewoods' to get the instructions for Quite Carried Away, and thought I had it sorted out, then called it in San Jose last night and couldn't make B2 work. The B begins with all proper, order 2-1-3. 1s turn right once round, half a straight hey on the end (man up, woman down, passing R shoulder with W2 or M3 to start), then 1s turn left hands once round with the one they're facing (who's of the opposite dance sex), ending progressed and improper. Here we are at the end of B1, as I think I understand it. W2 M2 W1 M1 W3 M3 (All improper, since we did a half-hey across the set; the instructions say, unless I misread or mistranscribed them, all falling back into progressed places, improper.) PSP only says of B2 that it's the same as B1, except with the M1 working with the third couple and W1 working with the second couple, and left hand turn. This is amazingly rich in ambiguity, and the resolution I came up with didn't work (which surprised me, since I didn't remember anything really weird happening at the Seattle Ball). None of my plausible interpretations both seem symmetrical and get the 1s proper at the end. For example: Should B2 be: 1s turn L once round M1 down, W1 up into half-hey across the set, starting by passing M3 or W2 LEFT shoulder, then turn M3 or W2 left hand (that's same sex), to progressed place proper? [While that one works, the same-sex left-hand turn is doubly odd, both because it's same-sex and because the 1s momentum would push toward a right hand turn.] This works, but isn't plausible. So, those of you who have done this dance, how does it actually go? Am I misreading the instructions? Are they in error or incomplete? Have I thoroughly misunderstood something earlier in the dance that leaves me starting from the wrong position? Any advice from knowledge (rather than speculation; there was, believe me, _plenty_ of speculation from the floor last night), would be greatly appreciated. Signed, Clueless in Redwood City =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:07:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 17:06:46 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: pool party pictures To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802052306.RAA15029-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> I thought everyone might be tired of the cold so I've put pictures from our ECD pool party last summer on a web page. The URL is: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/pool.html and it is accessible from the Central Illinois English Country Dancers web site at http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/ Enjoy. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:18:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 14:56:38 -0800 From: Laurie Buchanan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" --- Mary Devlin wrote: I admit to requesting people refrain from clapping during Petronella figures -- once. (They just clapped louder and more fiendishly.) Anyone have any ideas on how to check this virus?? I heard Susan Kevra (calling at the Scout House in Condord, MA) say "If you must clap after the twirl, just be sure that your hands don't meet". This seemed to go down well. A few weeks later at the same venue I called a contra I had written called "No Clapping!" in which you do the Petronella twirl three times but after each you join up in a _different_ circle - my theory was that they'd be so busy trying to work out which circle they were in, they wouldn't have time to clap. This seemed to work well, but at least two people strongly objected to me telling them not to clap. Their argument was "You can't tell us what to do - we're paying you". I thought that was exactly what they _were_ paying me for, and it raises the question: "Is the customer always right?" In the past I've said in callers workshops that the caller is there to give the crowd what they want, but now I feel that (as in most things) you can take this too far. How far is a caller entitled to lay down the law about how a particular figure should be executed - or indeed what repertoire should be performed? This seems like a reasonable generalisation of Mary's question. Any comments? Colin Hume (not Laurie Buchanan - I've adopted a pseudonym for a few days) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 16:41:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 19:40:05 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <6a77f093.34da5be7-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/5/98 6:35:04 PM, Colin Hume wrote: <<--- Mary Devlin wrote: I admit to requesting people refrain from clapping during Petronella figures -- once. (They just clapped louder and more fiendishly.) Anyone have any ideas on how to check this virus?? I heard Susan Kevra (calling at the Scout House in Condord, MA) say "If you must clap after the twirl, just be sure that your hands don't meet". This seemed to go down well. A few weeks later at the same venue I called a contra I had written called "No Clapping!" in which you do the Petronella twirl three times but after each you join up in a _different_ circle - my theory was that they'd be so busy trying to work out which circle they were in, they wouldn't have time to clap. This seemed to work well, but at least two people strongly objected to me telling them not to clap. Their argument was "You can't tell us what to do - we're paying you". I thought that was exactly what they _were_ paying me for, and it raises the question: "Is the customer always right?" In the past I've said in callers workshops that the caller is there to give the crowd what they want, but now I feel that (as in most things) you can take this too far. How far is a caller entitled to lay down the law about how a particular figure should be executed - or indeed what repertoire should be performed? This seems like a reasonable generalisation of Mary's question. Any comments? Colin Hume (not Laurie Buchanan - I've adopted a pseudonym for a few days) >> I think that the caller's role includes teaching, explaining, perhaps imploring dancers to do a dance as he or she feels is correct. One might explain very gently why one feels that clapping in Petronella will probably bring an end to civilization as we know it (as it well may, though as I have said previously, I have been fortunate in having never seen this particular abomination done), but I feel that demanding that it be done MY WAY is at best counterproductive. Of course, Colin has a great way of saying "Do it my way because I'm the caller" and making it sound friendly.... Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 18:32:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:31:44 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Quite Carr-ied Away" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802060231.VAA02200-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:00 PM 2/5/98 -0700, Alan Winston wrote: >Here we are at the end of B1, as I think I understand it. > > W2 M2 > W1 M1 > W3 M3 > >(All improper, since we did a half-hey across the set; the instructions say, >unless I misread or mistranscribed them, all falling back into progressed >places, improper.) > >PSP only says of B2 that it's the same as B1, except with the M1 working with >the third couple and W1 working with the second couple, and left hand turn. Dear Alan: Here's what you do in B2, Triple Minor version: [All are improper & in order you noted above] (1-4) Ones R-h turn 1x INTO [Man down, Woman up] 1/2 hey for 3 (5-6) 1st Man L-h turn 3rd Woman WHILE 1st Woman L-h turn 2nd Man INTO (7-8) Ones change by L-sh [All end proper] In Seattle & in New York I've danced 2 slightly different 3-couple versions, each of which smooshes the pattern of bars 7-8 to get the Ones into 3rd place and the Threes up into 2nd place. I found neither totally satisfactory, both because I missed the way in the original the B2 movements repeat those in B1 and because I found that the Threes often were late getting in to 2nd place to join in the hands four with the new Ones. No fun. The best short-set version of Quite Carr-ied Away I've found is one Scott Higgs taught. Scott had us make up 4-couple sets & dance QCA in Scottish style, with each first couple getting to be active twice before dropping to the bottom of the set. In this way he preserved the geometry of the original & gave each couple in the set 2 glorious turns as Ones. Hugs, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 01:12:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:32:18 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: "Quite Carr-ied Away" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34DAD8A2.7DC-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01IT80Y4U8IE9ULOAF-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> I feel that there is no need to turn "Quite Carried Away" into a set dance. The dance is interesting enough for all three couples, so let's keep it as a triple minor. I danced a three-couple version last summer at Pinewoods, and found it very dissatisfying. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:50:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 08:50:13 -0800 (PST) From: dodson-AT- socrates.berkeley.edu (allen and alisa dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: pool party pictures To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jonathan sez, > I thought everyone might be tired of the cold so I've put pictures from our >ECD pool party last summer on a web page. A kind and lovely thought, except out here in California, I'm not sure we can stand the sight of more water ... Alisa (in the land of "El Teeno", as the SF Chronicle says this morning) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 12:59:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 12:54:50 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eric Black called Petronella in Palo Alto amidst an evening of chestnuts back on the Saturday of Thanksgiving weekend and the dreaded Petronella Clap (an STD--socially transmitted disease) occurred. Eric somehow got it to stop without being heavy-handed. I've emailed him to describe what he did, and if he replies and remembers, I'll post it here with his permission. The best I can recall is he used a combination of humor, moral authority and bargaining. -- Gary D. Shapiro We're Mac! We're Back! Get Used to It! (repeat) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:12:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 14:16:47 +0100 From: mdevlin-AT- teleport.com (Mary Devlin) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: AND To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" An AND I especially enjoy is moving from an assisted cast or gate figure into a double figure 8. For example, "The Road to Youth" by Rich Galloway and Stephanie Smith has the 1's cast below assisted by the 2's at the end of the B1 into the B2 double figure 8. Bliss! (Actually the whole dance is so much fun! One of my favorites.) Mary Devlin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:27:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 17:46:56 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: AND To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Mary Devlin wrote: > An AND I especially enjoy is moving from an assisted cast or gate figure > into a double figure 8. > > For example, "The Road to Youth" by Rich Galloway and Stephanie Smith has > the 1's cast below assisted by the 2's at the end of the B1 into the B2 > double figure 8. Bliss! (Actually the whole dance is so much fun! One of > my favorites.) Hmmm... that's one I don't know. Rich/Stephanie, would you be willing to post it to the list? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 16:43:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 19:42:22 -0800 From: Stephanie Smith Subject: The Road to Youth To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34DBD81E.46D6-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Yes, Eric, I will, but it may take me this evening to uncover it, so if Rich beats me to it, that's fine. The tune used for the dance is "The Road to the North" by English concertina wizard Alistair Anderson, and it was recorded on a wonderful LP called Steel Skies which should now be available on CD (Topic). Nicolas Broadbridge recorded the tune on his latest CD of Playford-style dances from North America. I'll get back to the list later on with the dance itself. I've been so busy with this Glen Echo issue that I didn't read all my email carefully. Thanks for the compliment, Mary! Stephanie Eric Arnold wrote: > > On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Mary Devlin wrote: > > > An AND I especially enjoy is moving from an assisted cast or gate figure > > into a double figure 8. > > > > For example, "The Road to Youth" by Rich Galloway and Stephanie Smith has > > the 1's cast below assisted by the 2's at the end of the B1 into the B2 > > double figure 8. Bliss! (Actually the whole dance is so much fun! One of > > my favorites.) > > Hmmm... that's one I don't know. Rich/Stephanie, would you be willing to > post it to the list? > > Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 17:46:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 20:45:21 -0800 From: Stephanie Smith Subject: Re: The Road to Youth To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34DBE6E1.7864-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <34DBD81E.46D6-AT- ix.netcom.com> Found it. "The Road to Youth, or Not the Norm" to the tune "The Road to the North" by Alistair Anderson, played at moderate speed. Written for Norm Bernhardt on the Occasion of his Fiftieth Birthday by Stephanie Smith and Rich Galloway, 1993 A1 1-4 First corners set and turn single right 5-8 Partners gypsy by the right shoulder back to place A2 1-4 Second corners set *left to right*, turn single *left* 5-8 Parners gypsy by the left shoulder back to place. B1 1-4 Back to back with partner, ending in a line of 4 facing up, with 1s in the middle 5-8 Step forward 2 (or balance forward), back 2, and 2s gate the 1s into 2nd place. B2 1-8 The gates flow into a double figure 8, with 1s crossing up to start, 2s moving down on the outside. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 22:55:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 01:55:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One night stands and other fun To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Barbara Ruth wrote: > For those interested, David Kaynor > has a book out on calling for beginners, in both senses of the word > (beginner callers for beginner dancers) that addresses the kinds of > problems callers face in doing "one night stands." Do you have any more information about this book (name, publisher, where to find it, etc.)? Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:21:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Archive update To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITDXX4V3368WW0K5-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Folks -- I've made an improvement in the archive. It will no longer show c. 20 lines of mail headers before each message, instead showing only "From", "Date", and "Subject" lines. This gives you much less gibberish to wade through. As before, go to http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.html and click on the archive link to get in. (For those who care, I ended up hacking the code of the hypermail program to make a version that recognizes the non-VMS mail headers at the beginning of the message and filters out all but the interesting ones. Some of the 1996 messages have some "headers" in footer position; these will still display.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 03:33:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:37:29 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: AADS Spring Weekend To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34E04A09.66F3-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Anglo-American Dance Service is happy to announce its SPRING DANCE WEEKEND ENGLISH AND AMERICAN COUNTRY DANCES April 3-5, 1998 Malle, Belgium with callers Scott Higgs (USA) and Simone Verheyen (B) and with musicians Janneke Donkersloot, fiddle (NL) and Bep Koopmans, piano (NL) The AADS spring dance weekend will take place in the Provinciaal Vormingscentrum at Malle, about 30 minutes away from Antwerp. Both English and American country dances will be taught and danced this time, with a slight emphasis on the former dance style. From Philadelphia (USA) we welcome Scott Higgs. Scott has called in Belgium six years ago and will now come to Europe again. In America he often calls at camps and weekends and can easily combine serious dancing with good fun. At our weekend, he will both teach English and American dances. And so will the Belgian caller Simone Verheyen who has called for the AADS many times before. She will join Scott in teaching a varied fare of English and American dances. Live music during this weekend will be provided by the Dutch pianist Bep Koopmans and the Dutch fiddler Janneke Donkersloot. Baby sitting will be available so parents can join the dancing. VENUE Provinciaal Vormingscentrum (PVC), Smekenstraat 61, B-2390 Malle, Belgium Rooms for 1, 2 (limited), 3 (limited), 4 and 6 are available. Each room has one or more washbasins; showers and toilets are nearby. WHEN From Friday evening April 3 1998 (7 pm) till Sunday afternoon April 5 1998 (4 pm). COURSE FEE Adults: BEF 3050. Children (- 13): BEF 1850. This includes tuition, room, five meals, and coffee/tea druing the breaks. Supplement for vegetarian meals: BEF 150. REGISTRATION, Ask for a flyer. AADS office, Resedastraat 8, B-9920 Lovendegem. phone and fax + 32-9-3729635; e-mail aads-AT- club.innet.be. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:00:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:02:26 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen: A Life To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Message-ID: <0008A72A.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow Dancers, Avid Jane Austen fans may know of this already, but other dancer/readers might be interested in a review of two Jane Austen biographies that appeared in the New York Review of Books [Vol. XLV, No. 2, Feb. 5, 1998]. Both bios are titled, Jane Austen: A Life; one by Claire Tomalin, one by David Nokes. The reviewer is Hilary Mantel, a novelist I am not familiar with. In typical New York Review form, the article is as much an essay as book review, giving an interesting but far too brief overview of Jane Austen's life, touching on the Jane Austen industry as started by her family after she died, and adding insights from four different Austen biographies, an essay by Lionel Trilling, and from Andrew Davies, who directed the BBC production of Pride and Prejudice. Of the two books under review, she greatly favors the one by Claire Tomalin. All this in four pages. Marty Fager, who wishes he had more time for reading (but not at the expense of dancing.) ________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:37:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:39:45 -0500 From: "Smith, Kent" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Jane Austen: A Life To: "'ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" Message-ID: <4BA51268AF86D1119DC30000F81FB0D3048275-AT- exchange2.cc.trincoll.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The review essay is available on-line at http://www.nybooks.com/nyrev/WWWfeatdisplay.cgi?1998020508R Kent Smith (Connecticut) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:14:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:13:41 -0800 From: Graham Baldwin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: UNSUBSRIBING To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212101341.00a00b4c-AT- mail.info-mine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can someone please remind me how to unsubscribe from this list? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Graham J. Baldwin Tel: +1 (604) 322-5476 Vancouver Morris Men Fax: +1 (604) 681-4166 2211 Portside Court, Vancouver, BC E-mail: gbaldwin-AT- info-mine.com CANADA V5P 4T9 URL: http://www.info-mine.com/vmm/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:14:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 12:19:10 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen: A Life To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980212201910.19590.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Martin Fager wrote: In typical New York Review > form, the article is as much an essay as book review, giving an > interesting but far too brief overview of Jane Austen's life, touching on > the Jane Austen industry as started by her family after she died, and > adding insights from four different Austen biographies, an essay by > Lionel Trilling, and from Andrew Davies, who directed the BBC production > of Pride and Prejudice. Not to mention a poem by W.H. Auden! My favorite modern poet and I didn't know he'd written about Jane Austen. But it's wonderful to see the poet Auden phrase, in his typically clear-eyed unsentimental way just how clear-eyed and unsentimental was Austen the novelist. Thanks, Marty and Kent for bringing this review to our attention. Barbara Ruth New Haven _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:58:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 16:58:03 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here's what Eric Black recalled about his calling of Petronella on Thanksgiving weekend: ===== I don't really remember precisely WHAT I said, but it was marginally effective. I tried several approaches, at one point I mentioned something about antibiotics because someone is spreading the Clap. That got a laugh, and reduced the level somewhat. Paul Kotapish also said something into his mike about how the ragged clapping noise was bothering the musicians, and that didn't help. I tried ridiculing the clappers, saying that they were not clapping in time to the music, and if they couldn't clap and dance at the same time, wouldn't they rather dance? I was on the verge of stopping the music, and getting on with the next dance, when it subsided to a tolerable level; the dance had gone something more than half the duration I wanted, so it would have merely been short, not aborted. Ralph Page could get away with stopping the dance even after only 2 times through the dance, or Ted Sannella (although I think Ted would have joined the clappers), but not many other callers. Guest callers from exotic locations have more leeway sometimes than the regular locals. People just don't realize how distracting the ragged sound of the clapping can be to the musicians. The sound delay inherent in even a relatively small hall smears the sound even if people DO clap exactly and precisely in time based on the sound at their location, but they don't think about the delay in the sound getting to them, plus the delay in their sound getting to the band. Foot stomping in a balance is not at all the same problem, because the sound is much less well defined; it's muddy and "fat" to begin with. The sharp punctuated sound of a clap brooks no leeway as to when it happened, and if it's not dead on, it's awful. Ultimately, I think the only effective method will be to promote vigorous and active peer pressure. Looks of disgust from the other members of your foursome can be mighty persuasive. I hope we can cultivate that attitude of non-tolerance for people who mess up the band. ===== Eric also told me that at yesterday/today's Santa Cruz dawn dance, the Clap started to spread during two different dances, only one of which had the Petronella-style twirl in it. His strategy was to take (grab?) his neighbors' hands as soon as possible. He got some strange looks. -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:11:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:10:35 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:58 PM -0800 2/16/98, Gary D. Shapiro wrote: >Ralph Page could get away with stopping the dance even after only >2 times through the dance, or Ted Sannella (although I think Ted would have >joined the clappers), but not many other callers. Guest callers from >exotic locations have more leeway sometimes than the regular locals. LOL! I think an appearance by either of those at many dances would be respected and get the desired effect. I can remember BOTH of them stopping things to say "you know, I'd prefer it this way" well actually probably something more pointed than that, but you get the idea. Perhaps you could twitch a little, assume another voice and be a channel to one of the greats??? Mary Beth <-- likes the whole concept - especially if the music and lights dropped at the same time (slight twilight zone theme heard in background) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:11:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:10:35 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:58 PM -0800 2/16/98, Gary D. Shapiro wrote: >Ralph Page could get away with stopping the dance even after only >2 times through the dance, or Ted Sannella (although I think Ted would have >joined the clappers), but not many other callers. Guest callers from >exotic locations have more leeway sometimes than the regular locals. LOL! I think an appearance by either of those at many dances would be respected and get the desired effect. I can remember BOTH of them stopping things to say "you know, I'd prefer it this way" well actually probably something more pointed than that, but you get the idea. Perhaps you could twitch a little, assume another voice and be a channel to one of the greats??? Mary Beth <-- likes the whole concept - especially if the music and lights dropped at the same time (slight twilight zone theme heard in background) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:40:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:42:37 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Re:What to say when they clap To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34E8EB08.77BF-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Mary Beth Goodman wrote (re: Ralph Page or Ted Sanella's reaction...) > > > LOL! I think an appearance by either of those at many dances would be > respected and get the desired effect. I can remember BOTH of them stopping > things to say "you know, I'd prefer it this way" well actually probably > something more pointed than that, but you get the idea. > There is something seriously good here: Mary Beth is pointing to the way Ted and many other good callers *OWN* their opinions & reactions. I *detest* the Petronella clap. I've done all sorts of things to try to stop it. On any given night, some work and others don't, and they aren't the same ones. Over time, I figured out that when, whatever I said, I conveyed, "This really matters to me, I care about it" those were the times the clapping subsided. When I conveyed some version of "you're wrong" or "this is bad" or "do it for the good of all" then nothing happened. Calling is really a one-to-one relationship with a lot of people: each of them is giving over some control, trusting that I-the-caller accept it with the intention of doing my best for them. There is some interpersonal risking going on. So all the external reasons, the ones that make sense ("it throws the musicians off") miss the mark. The ones which say, "I'm trying to do a good job, and this is just something I don't know how to work with" evokes *exactly* the agreement they've made with you. It's far from surefire, but it's honest, direct, and (if they don't stop) -- you have the opening to run short. OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN: In our community, this goes in spasms. For a few months, everyone will be clapping in the middle of everything all the time. Then it goes away. Soon enough, it's back again. I don't fight it as hard as I used to, knowing that natural death takes over. Other pet peeve: folks who make those really loud howls in the middle of dances. It splits my ears, scares small children, overpowers the music and drives me bonkers. I've never said a word about this to anyone, as it seems to be an accepted part of the dance culture. Erna-Lynne -------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / Ypsilanti MI -------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:37:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:36:51 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Howls To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/16/98 8:45:06 PM, you wrote: <> We have a couple of howlers in Baltimore, and, while I don't think I could do it myself - especially in an English dance - it seems to really add a spark of spirit to an occasional contra dance. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:22:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:22:21 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Somewheres around 16 Feb 1998 20:10:35 -0500 Mary Beth Goodman allowed her email program to insert: >At 4:58 PM -0800 2/16/98, Gary D. Shapiro wrote: >>Ralph Page could get away with stopping the dance even after only >>2 times through the dance, or Ted Sannella (although I think Ted would have >>joined the clappers), but not many other callers. Guest callers from >>exotic locations have more leeway sometimes than the regular locals. No no no Gary Shapiro emailed it. Eric Black wrote it as I indicated and gave me permission to quote it. -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:29:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:28:00 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Somewheres around 16 Feb 1998 20:10:35 -0500 Mary Beth Goodman > allowed her email program to insert: >No no no Gary Shapiro emailed it. Eric Black wrote it as >I indicated and gave me permission to quote it. > Ooops - mea culpa - and mucho apologies. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:59:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 01:59:00 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re:What to say when they howl To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Erna-Lynne Bogue wrote: > Other pet peeve: folks who make those really loud howls in the middle of > dances. It splits my ears, scares small children, overpowers the music > and drives me bonkers. I've never said a word about this to anyone, as > it seems to be an accepted part of the dance culture. As Carl Friedman mentioned in another posting, there are some serious howlers in Baltimore and, yes, I find them incredibly annoying. There seems to be no point to it, except to blow the other dancers' eardrums out. On a similar note, one of my big pet peeves are dancers who persistantly whistle or hum while the dance is going on. I don't mind a little bit, but when it's continuous it's rather irritating. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:10:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 00:06:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Petronella clapping To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Methinks this is turning into a most strange thread... I've played for a lot of dances, English, Contra, all-mixed up family dances with kids running and yelling everywhere, etc.. One of the skills you acquire early is the ability to *not* get thrown off by noises from outside the band, be they claps, yells, foot-stomps or (for that matter) echoes. You learn to listen to each other and tune out the extraneous stuff. The trick is to do that *without* tuning out the energy and life you get back from the dancers. Meanwhile, may I suggest that in a world where human beings are killing each other in wholesale lots, clapping during "Petronella" is a pretty petty sin? From the sound of the thread, one would think the world was ending. Peace. Paul (who actually *likes* playing for messy family dances) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:06:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:06:48 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: April 4th Spring Fling in Woodstock NY [long] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802171506.KAA08572-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" On Saturday, April 4th, from 1pm-11pm, the Woodstock NY English dance is putting on a mini-festival at the Woodside Community Center on Rock City Road. The event is a fund-raiser, with proceeds going to the Dance Flurry and to the Family of Woodstock, a non-profit crisis intervention agency. English country dance leaders and musicians already signed up to appear include Don Bell, Roger Davidson, George Davis, Cara Friedman, Yonina Gordon, Sharon Green, John Huhn, Barbara Kidney, Carol Martinez, Paul Ross, Robin Russell, and Michael Siemon, together with the bands Hudson Crossing and The King's Delight. Ritual teams likely to perform are New York's New World Sword and Albany's Pokingbrook Morris. The day's program is still "flexible" (we're currently working on lining up a nearby second site to allow us to present more sessions). However, these are a few of the sessions already in place: English Band Workshop with Roger Davidson [pianist, composer of Dunant House Waltz, onetime student of Phil Merrill & May Gadd] New York Playford Ball Review with CD*NY teachers New Compositions Workshop [recent dances, taught in most cases by their creators] English Made Easy [beginners' workshop with Sharon Green] We encourage all dance gypsies and ECD-lovers to make a weekend of it by attending not only the festival but one or more of the following events: Friday, April 3: New York City Experienced English Dance with FRIED HERMAN, featuring Fried's dances from the upcoming Playford Ball. Music by Bill Peek, Cara Friedman & friends. 8pm, 201 W. 13. New Haven English Country Dance with ANDREAS HAYDEN. Music by Marshall Barron, Grace Feldman, Margaret Ann Martin with members of Marshall's Country Dance Band workshops. 8pm, 100 Audubon St. Sunday, April 5 East Greenbush English Country Dance with GARY ROODMAN and NANCY YULE. Music by Larry Wallach & friends. 3pm, Greenbush Reformed Church, Hayes Rd. at Columbia Tpke. [Rt.9 & 20) The cost of the festival (from a Manhattanite's perspective) is minimal: $8, day *or* evening; $15, all-festival Reduced prices for seniors, full-time students, individuals with limited income, are available; folks feeling flush with Wall Street bonuses (or still flushed with delight from the Flurry), however, are most welcome to donate more than the quoted admission. For more info, E-mail Sharon Green at mls-AT- panix.com or call Sharon [212-741-5192] or Barbara Kidney [914-496-2678]. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 07:56:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:56:51 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: manners To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some recent postings seem to have a common, if underlying, theme: manners, or manners and practices, customs, etc. Not just "Miss Manners," but the acceptable range of behavior during what is, after all, a social occasion -- but a social occasion during which certain group activities to the accompaniment of paid semi-professionals are taking place. (So we aren't talking about a cocktail party here. More like a volunteer choral production of Handel's Messiah, or a shape-note singing event, etc., perhaps with a semi-pro orchestra and a professional conductor.) Obviously it would be unacceptable for a dancer in a contra, or ECD or much of anything else, to play an instrument while dancing, let's say. Or to sing full voice. Or to do completely separate figures. Or to knock down another dancer -- not accidentally, but as an element of self-expression. But what about clapping, shouting, or (earlier discussion), grabbing a person and spinning them around without warning during Dublin Bay? I'm personally inclined towards the idea of Less is More: I'd rather let the musicians play, the caller call, and other people move without my picking them up bodily. Most people, I've found (speaking as someone who's taught some morris and sword dances), in fact 1/ cannot clap in time, 2/ have trouble telling rights from lefts, 3/ have trouble following patterns or instructions, and 4/ can't step in time. (I admit to #1 and 2 on that list, but think I'm OK on #3 and 4.) Most people also in my experience, are unaware that they can't do these things. That being the case -- self awareness of my own weakness, and awareness of others' plus awareness that they don't know and wouldn't want to hear it -- I vote for restraint. Clap less, shout less, and be less "creative" in the dance. I guess I can be accused of a rather bleak view: so why do I do this? Because, in fact, when people are more restrained, it all works together pretty well. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:07:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:07:13 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: What to say when they howl To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: Jailbait Message-ID: <19980217110713.49315-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Quoting Dawn Culbertson (dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu): > > On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Erna-Lynne Bogue wrote: > > > Other pet peeve: folks who make those really loud howls in the middle of > > dances. It splits my ears, scares small children, overpowers the music > > and drives me bonkers. I've never said a word about this to anyone, as > > it seems to be an accepted part of the dance culture. > > As Carl Friedman mentioned in another posting, there are some serious > howlers in Baltimore and, yes, I find them incredibly annoying. There > seems to be no point to it, except to blow the other dancers' eardrums > out. On a similar note, one of my big pet peeves are dancers who > persistantly whistle or hum while the dance is going on. I don't mind a > little bit, but when it's continuous it's rather irritating. > My gods! With this thread, we've determined that people don't like ANY form of expression of enjoyment of the music and the dance other than dancing quietly. I don't know if I can tell you just how disturbing I find all of these revalations. From a live-music Point Of View, I know that outside of EC/Contra Dance circles, clapping/stomping/howling and understood (and often encouraged) as a sign that the audience is enjoying the music. If there's to be no visible signs of enjoyment of the music, why should we even bother with live musicians when we could have perfectly servicable recordings that not only don't get thrown off by audience feedback (How /ever/ does a non-dance folkie musician deal when their audience claps along? We all know that the clapping is NEVER in time with the music they're playing! The audience should just shut up and sit down! How do players in a Seisun deal with all of those people standing around and listening, singing along, stomping, howling, even. Just shut up. You can show your enjoyment at the end of the piece with applause.) and thus become no better than the MWSD folks who could just as well all be wearing sync'd walkmen playing different tunes, as long as the timing is on beat. I know when I hum, or call out (howl) or clap, I'm expressing a joy in the music that can't be contained within the dancing. Could I ask all the fine musicians who play for ECD to keep their light under a barrel so that we dancers who feel moved to respond to great music won't be distracted from the dancing and maybe moved to respond? Elke: Just play the tune. Don't embellish. Larry: Forget all the funky minor varients. Liz: Just stop playing. I enjoy it all too much. It bothers folks. But then, I suppose that the dc area folks were just as happy to see me go, and the boston area folks are probably just as happy that I haven't gotten to any of the local ECD up here yet. And with attitudes like this, maybe I won't. JB, seriously disturbed by all of this. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:45:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:45:30 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802171645.LAA21954-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:07 AM 2/17/98 -0500, Jailbait wrote: >I know when I hum, or call out (howl) or clap, I'm expressing a joy in the >music that can't be contained within the dancing. >But then, I suppose that the dc area folks were just as happy to see me go, >and the boston area folks are probably just as happy that I haven't gotten >to any of the local ECD up here yet. > >And with attitudes like this, maybe I won't. Dear Jailbait, I think Boston can cope--they're very nice folks up there. In fact, my guess is that most folks in the country dance world understand that the whoop from the floor is a whoop of pure delight, and even those who are distracted or deeply put off by "howling" love and value the sheer joy in dance that fills the howlers to overflowing. So don't give up on them if they seem grumpy. The one real danger in any of this--whooping, whistling, bouncing up and down in sheer exuberance--that I see is if it becomes a habit. Of course we respond--it's music! But we should no more _always_ respond to one of Elke's embellishments with that same old whoop than she should always play the exact same embellishment. And we should all of us remember that we're dancing not just to give ourselves pleasure but to give pleasure to our partners, our neighbors, and even to our caller and the band. Love you all, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:45:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:42:10 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd3be4$85294aa0$d6fe1ecb-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As a dance muso (who mostly plays for messy family dances these days) I would much rather play for people who are doing it for their pleasure - not for some-one else's pleasure. Those of you dancing out of a sence of duty can go home now, thank you. Martin snip >the exact same embellishment. And we should all of us remember that we're >dancing not just to give ourselves pleasure but to give pleasure to our >partners, our neighbors, and even to our caller and the band. > >Love you all, >Sharon Green > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 13:56:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:01:14 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980217220114.9551.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think that dancing for one's own pleasure *and* for others as well are mutually exclusive, and I would venture the suggestion (if Sharon doesn't mind some attempted mind-readig) that what she meant was that when we engage in dance, our own pleasure is enhanced by keeping in mind some consideration for the others involved. For some people simply knowing that they are giving pleasure to others makes them feel good themselves, but even for those not so moved, there is the basic social compact which necessarily underlies all social activity, which says, if I try to avoid doing things that harm, irritate or annoy you, chances are better that you will reciprocate and we well be able to carry out our joint activities in a way that is mutually pleasurable, even if it means that neither of us gets exactly what we want. On the other hand, if every participant thinks only of experiencing their individual enjoyment in any way the impulse moves them to at any time, without worrying about whether what they are doing affects anyone else's enjoyment, or whether it is harmful, dangerous or disruptive, chances are that pretty soon the dance is not going to be very much fun for most of the participants and it will break up. Indeed, it can take only one or two truly disruptive individuals to destroy a dance series. Barbara Ruth ---Martin Hungerford wrote: > > As a dance muso (who mostly plays for messy family dances these days) I > would much rather play for people who are doing it for their pleasure - not > for some-one else's pleasure. Those of you dancing out of a sence of duty > can go home now, thank you. > > Martin > > snip > >the exact same embellishment. And we should all of us remember that we're > >dancing not just to give ourselves pleasure but to give pleasure to our > >partners, our neighbors, and even to our caller and the band. > > > >Love you all, > >Sharon Green > > > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:40:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:40:02 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802172240.RAA13523-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 07:42 AM 2/18/98 +1100, Martin Hungerford wrote: >As a dance muso (who mostly plays for messy family dances these days) I >would much rather play for people who are doing it for their pleasure - not >for some-one else's pleasure. Those of you dancing out of a sence of duty >can go home now, thank you. Dear Martin, Woops, love, you really do *not* know me! Of course I'm dancing for my pleasure, but very central to that pleasure is the joy of sharing my pleasure with others and giving them pleasure by being there for them, not simply passively but actively. If you think I'm dancing out of a sense of duty, think again. Cheers, Sharon Green (who calls for all sorts of messy dances) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:53:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITOTVR3O4895MRLV-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Folks -- Well, let's see here. I'm not actually required by law to comment on this thread, but since I helped start it (by asking what's too much fun _not_ to do, a while back), I'll throw in some thoughts. (1) The basic contract under which country dance operates is that the dancers give up some of their autonomy in the service of making the whole dance work. [You do the figures the caller specifies; you don't bail out of the middle of a line unless it's to repair a problem; if you come across a "next below" you don't like, you don't refuse to dance with them.] Everybody has implicitly agreed to do this for the greater enjoyment of all. I think that's an essential part of what we're doing. (2) For people who no longer need to think about the figures very much, a challenge remains of finding individual expression that _fits_ both the dance and the circumstances, and that doesn't get tiresome in itself. I think doing the same quirky individual thing every time through the dance is tiresome; it needs to fit the music, the mood, and the dancers. (Yipping and howling during "Joy After Sorrow" are Right Out; during La Russe Quadrille I'd think they'd fit right in, if the dancers feel like it -- and not if they don't.) (3) While I saw complaints about yipping and howling, the complaints I saw about Petronella clapping weren't about spontaneous expressions of happiness; they were about people introducing the two claps on the turn after the balance every single time, which has nothing to do with how much fun they're having or what a great lick the musicians just played. (4) I bet at least a nickel that at least some of the participants at a messy family dance are there at least partially to help others have a good time, and enjoy the good time others are having. Like, say, the parents who bring their children. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:05:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 17:05:11 -0600 From: Bob Borcherding Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802172305.RAA09328-AT- mail.stlnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >As a dance muso (who mostly plays for messy family dances these days) I >would much rather play for people who are doing it for their pleasure - not >for some-one else's pleasure. Those of you dancing out of a sence of duty >can go home now, thank you. Hmmm. This makes me think of that phrase, often used in jest, but not entirely, unfortunately: "What about *my* needs?" IMHO, if you are dancing with the *correct* (ducking!) frame of mind, your enjoyment is partially derived from the enjoyment of those dancing around you, perhaps even your partner? Even at those fun, frolicky, family dances! (*Messy* isn't an adjective I'd choose to apply.) Synergy is the word. Bob Borcherding gapbob-AT- stlnet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:31:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:57:58 -0500 From: The Dupre Family Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: CDSS as Dance Arbiter To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BD3BF3.CA14E2A0-AT- ppp2.nerc.com> Hi all! Well, I'm only running two weeks or so behind all the rest of you and have just caught up on a whole bunch of ECD digests ... like the February 3 digest in which one writer said (while talking about arming in Dublin Bay) "BUT...... I personally prefer twice around on the arming in Dublin Bay. To me it fits the music and spirit of the rest of the dance better. I know that this is officially frowned upon, especially by CDSS, ...." I don't have a thing to add to the discussion about arming in Dublin Bay - I saw my own views reflected quite well by the comments many of you made - but what made my blood boil (just kidding, though it DID make me slightly grouchy) was ........ the attribution of official frowning to CDSS (implying some sort of official policy). You really think that? There are several of us on this list who are or have been members of the Governing Board of CDSS, and I swear, cross my heart, we haven't yet taken to setting dance policy and standards - unless that's what they were talking about at those after-midnight secret smoke-filled room meetings I could never get an invitation to. And I think you'll find that CDSS hires dance teachers for its dance camps who hold wide and diverse views about what features represent good dancing. Sure, CDSS is inevitably going to represent mainstream points of view, but in those viewpoints, as you can see from our discussions here, you'll find considerable latitude. I just hate to see CDSS used as a whipping boy in this kind of discussion. Glad to get that off my chest,. Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ dupre-AT- nerc.com ph: (609) 844-0459 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:38:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Barbara Ruth wrote: > I don't think that dancing for one's own pleasure *and* for others as > well are mutually exclusive, and I would venture the suggestion (if > Sharon doesn't mind some attempted mind-readig) that what she meant > was that when we engage in dance, our own pleasure is enhanced by > keeping in mind some consideration for the others involved. For some > people simply knowing that they are giving pleasure to others makes > them feel good themselves, but even for those not so moved, there is > the basic social compact which necessarily underlies all social > activity, which says, if I try to avoid doing things that harm, > irritate or annoy you, chances are better that you will reciprocate > and we well be able to carry out our joint activities in a way that is > mutually pleasurable, even if it means that neither of us gets exactly > what we want. On the other hand, if every participant thinks only of > experiencing their individual enjoyment in any way the impulse moves > them to at any time, without worrying about whether what they are > doing affects anyone else's enjoyment, or whether it is harmful, > dangerous or disruptive, chances are that pretty soon the dance is not > going to be very much fun for most of the participants and it will > break up. Amen to that! Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 08:06:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:05:55 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980218110555.38375-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Sorry, Dawn, I don't mean to only follow up to you and make it look like I only have a problem with you...you just keep having the last word waiting when I get in in the morning...:) Quoting Dawn Culbertson (dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu): > > On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Barbara Ruth wrote: > > > I don't think that dancing for one's own pleasure *and* for others as > > well are mutually exclusive, and I would venture the suggestion (if > > Sharon doesn't mind some attempted mind-readig) that what she meant > > was that when we engage in dance, our own pleasure is enhanced by > > keeping in mind some consideration for the others involved. . . . > > . . .if I try to avoid doing things that harm, > > irritate or annoy you, chances are better that you will reciprocate > > and we well be able to carry out our joint activities in a way that is > > mutually pleasurable, even if it means that neither of us gets exactly > > what we want. > > . . . > > Amen to that! I'd like to point out that all of you who are saying "Think of others pleasure, too!" are - to my mind, at least - also simultaneously saying "As long as others definition of pleasure is the same as mine - and /I/ don't like it when you are too expressive of the fun you're having." If people want me to be doing performance-style dance, I can do that. I HAVE done that, and been paid for it. That's not what I'm doing here. (Hell, if I'm doing performance style, I'm going to refuse to do so-called Sharp Siding, and that'll probably piss you all off even more. :) I'm going out for an evening of dancing with friends and acquaintences...no audience. Note: I /DO/ understand what's being said about restraint and not going overboard. Really. I'm choosing to make my point by talking in the extreme here, as everyone else is. (For those in DC (and occasionally Baltimore) who don't recognize me by login, I'm the 6' guy with long black hair and full beard/mustache who you haven't seen around recently. For those in Boston, I probably won't be out dancing tonight. Hopefully next week...) JB ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:00:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:00:40 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802181700.MAA28175-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:05 AM 2/18/98 -0500, Jailbait wrote: >I'd like to point out that all of you who are saying "Think of others >pleasure, too!" are - to my mind, at least - also simultaneously saying >"As long as others definition of pleasure is the same as mine - and /I/ don't >like it when you are too expressive of the fun you're having." Actually, JB, when I say "Think of others' pleasure," I'm talking about being alive to the people around you--and that includes joining in ranting with Alan Winston on heys, or setting very bouncily back to Barbara Ruth or Sherry Kumler [with an occasional whoop thrown in for Sherry], or at the Boston Ball smoothly walking the initial 2-hand turn in King of Poland with Sam Rotenberg because I know Sam enjoys it less when it's skipped the Boston way. It's responding to people, enjoying them, and not begrudging them their fun [though I do worry when I see someone so caught up in his own fun that he fails to notice that he's leaving chaos in his wake]. The trouble with threads about pet peeves is that we all wind up sounding peevish. Anyone want to talk about the timing in Belgia Retrieved? Love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:35:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:35:29 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: light vs heat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, this is a lively discussion. A couple of questions: Is there a contra vs ECD point of view being expressed here? Are the mores (oh tempura! oh morris!) different for ECD and contra, specifically with regard to "self expression"? I suspect so. And if so, are we witnessing "leakage" from more-self-expression contra style into ECD? (And if so, what do people think about that?) Personally, I appreciate Sue Dupre's acknowledgement of what I've long suspected: that a small cadre of hegemonist imperialists runs CDSS through secret late night meetings. Probably linked to the Trilateral Commission. And can it be a coincidence that the beginning of Cecil Sharp's collecting of English folk music, dance, etc., was approximately simultaneous with the sinking of the battleship Maine, the assassination of Pres.McKinley, the Boxer Rebellion, and in general with the decline of civilization? Coincidence? I think not! Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:28:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:26:50 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: light vs heat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Stephen D Corrsin Message-ID: <00092539.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Personally, I appreciate Sue Dupre's acknowledgement of what I've long suspected: that a small cadre of hegemonist imperialists runs CDSS through secret late night meetings. Probably linked to the Trilateral Commission. And can it be a coincidence that the beginning of Cecil Sharp's collecting of English folk music, dance, etc., was approximately simultaneous with the sinking of the battleship Maine, the assassination of Pres.McKinley, the Boxer Rebellion, and in general with the decline of civilization? Coincidence? I think not! Steve Corrsin ----------------------------------------------------------- Steve- You left out the Boer War. Cecil Sharp was pre-Trilateral Commission, but I suspect he was an agent for the Illuminati. I just hope the outline of the grand plan comes clear in our lifetime. Marty Fager, Who almost never whoops or hollers, but occasionally claps, or stamps his feet. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:04:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:04:47 -0500 From: bec-AT- pobox.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802181904.OAA20500-AT- sunspot.excalib.com> God forbid that we should have individual expression, or evolution within the dances, or any deviation from the One True Style, whatever that may be. And how dare the person who does deviate ruin our evening by having fun of which we don't approve. After following this thread and seeing these self-righteous, intolerant Attitudes (with a capital A), I finally, unfortunately, understand the disparaging remarks I have heard from fellow dancers about "Dance Police." I'm beginning, too, to understand why many contra dancers despise ECD'ers as cold unfriendly snobs, or worse. Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. bec ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:54:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:54:24 -0500 (EST) From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802181954.OAA07035-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm going out for an evening of dancing with friends >and acquaintences...no audience. > Ah, but we dance with a partner, set and line. If one goes on a walkabout while the others dance, one may be having fun, but one is also being rude and, often, interfering with their fun. It is hard to be self-contained in a social event. Danny Walkowitz ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:10:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:05:05 -0500 From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199802181509_MC2-33CD-CD18-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So imagine....... this nice established evening of ECD to which a newcomer comes for the first time. All manner of 'flourishes' are to be seen or heard, and the newcomer assumes that THAT is what you do when you are really into the dance. Truth be said, it's not the beginners or unsure dancers who express their enjoyment that way - it's the center set crowd, the experienced dancers (perhaps even the person who brought the newcomer that night......) who think they are adding to the community dance experience by carrying on. So what does our beginner learn? It's cool to (whatever), because the folks more experienced than s/he are doing it! How come we are all submitting to starting as beginners in Scottish Country Dancing, and we expect to LEARN and be patient to be introduced to greater depths and quality of movement and group interaction (and timing!) - and in ECD we feel compelled to tell a newcomer: it's easy - you can do it, jump right in? Maybe the dance 'for those who know' is not such a bad idea after all? Is our concern that we MUST provide a good fun experience for any dancer who wanders in for the first (and maybe only) time? Do you really have to dance Newcastle when there are seven relatively prepared dancers and one who doesn't have a clue? Would you invite similarly inexperienced musicians to play with a band or an ensemble? I hope not! True, we all have the equipment to be dancers, and eventually good dancers, but the experience of what makes 'good' has to be acquired GRADUALLY, very few fortunate people are good dancers from the start. In my book it even okay to ask a new dancer to sit out a dance because it is not exactly beginner's material! If we love these dances so much, should we not treat and treasure them a little better by expecting the dancers to grow the necessary skills for themselves and over time rather than letting the beginner be impressed by the shenanigans of some dancers who clearly have more experience but not necessarily good judgment? Whenever you are learning a new activity, you start out as a beginner. Why don't we have the courage to point out to the hotshots that part of their responsibility is respect for the body of the dance and the communal dance experience rather than risking poor behavior on the dance floor which the beginners are sure to imitate because it's cool.... Would you start music lessons by starting with your graduation piece? Or would you acquire instrumental skills first? And yes, scale practice has its place! I'm not suggesting we get into step practice for ECD! And we can't start our first dance evening ever with a 'graduation piece'. 'Nuff said. _-AT- _ {)/' /\ /\_._,<_/ ' \ /_\ /> /< Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:37:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITQ3PTECZO95MQEW-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII bec wrote > >God forbid that we should have individual expression, or evolution >within the dances, or any deviation from the One True Style, whatever >that may be. And how dare the person who does deviate ruin our >evening by having fun of which we don't approve. > I don't actually understand where this comes from. >After following this thread and seeing these self-righteous, intolerant >Attitudes (with a capital A), I finally, unfortunately, understand the >disparaging remarks I have heard from fellow dancers about "Dance Police." >I'm beginning, too, to understand why many contra dancers despise >ECD'ers as cold unfriendly snobs, or worse. >Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. My take on the discussion so far is very different from bec's. I mean, the complaints I've read so far are things like: "I don't like it when somebody tries to turn me too many times in Dublin Bay against my will" and "I don't like it when people yell in my ear" and "I don't particularly like it when dancers hum through the entire tune" and "I wish people wouldn't insert two handclaps after the stars in English dancing because that's a distinctively American thing and it blurs the boundaries of the kind of dance we're doing." This is coupled with discussion about how the record for getting around in Dublin Bay is _five_ times, about how howling can really add spirit to a dance, and how humming and clapping are natural responses to wonderful music. [And my remarks about how individual expression should fit the dance, the mood, and the dancers, which still doesn't seem like it's intolerant to me, and Sharon's remarks about accommodating the other dancers.] We're having a discussion and people are expressing opinions. This is *good*. People are allowed to have opinions, and I don't think the fact that someone expresses opinions in a forum like this means that you can assume that person is patrolling the dance floors being snotty to newcomers or putting people in jail for having too much fun. Or are you saying, yourself, that it's intolerant not to simply, happily, accept everything anybody wants to do, no matter how destructive you find it to the spirit of the dance? That to be tolerant, you must not only tolerate getting your shoulder dislocated in Dublin Bay or getting twirled until you're late for the next figure in a contra, you must _like_ it? Oh, we've also had: "I wish people wouldn't do the two claps between the balances in Petronella." Clue: Petronella is a CONTRA dance. Eric Black wrote the posting on discouraging the clapping; Gary Shapiro posted it, Erna-Lynne Bogue commented on it. Eric Black, Gary Shapiro, and Erna-Lynne Bogue (regardless of membership in other categories, like English dancers and callers) are all CONTRA callers. Does that discussion make contra people cold unfriendly snobs, worthy of being despised by ECDers? Speaking of contra/English stuff, again, by the way: For quite a few years I have managed or co-managed the Bay Area Country Dance Society Fall Dance Weekend, where we do ECD, Contra and Squares, and assorted ritual dance. Every year there has been at least one contradancer who after trying English for the first time, either tells me in person or writes on their evaluation something quite like "Other contradancers told me to stay away from English, but it's really fun, and the people are so friendly!" -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:50:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:14:56 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802182014.OAA06624-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> bec-AT- pobox.com writes: > >God forbid that we should have individual expression, or evolution >within the dances, or any deviation from the One True Style, whatever >that may be. And how dare the person who does deviate ruin our >evening by having fun of which we don't approve. > >After following this thread and seeing these self-righteous, intolerant >Attitudes (with a capital A), I finally, unfortunately, understand the >disparaging remarks I have heard from fellow dancers about "Dance Police." >I'm beginning, too, to understand why many contra dancers despise >ECD'ers as cold unfriendly snobs, or worse. >Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. I haven't gotten the impression that anyone is disparaging dancers for having fun or putting some self-expression into their dancing. As you say it is social dancing. However there are people that one runs into (literally sometimes) occasionally who are so wrapped up in their own fun that no one around them has any fun. In fact they can be dangerous to be around. They are the ones who will whirl you around 5 times whether you want or are able to do it or not. They also don't care whether there is time available or not, thus making every neighbor they have down the line late for the next figure. When you are trailing one of these dancers every new neighbor you come to is late. This certainly is a case of their having fun at the expense of those around them. I've seen dancers who are so busy putting in extra twirls, spins, kicks and leaps that they aren't aware of all the people they have kicked, tripped, stepped on, shoved and caused to cringe as they progress through the dance. These dancers are having fun, but no one around them is. I see this more in contra dance circles, but I suspect they are out there in ECD-land as well. I don't consider these people to be good dancers, no matter how much experience they may have. Here are some excerpts from my top ten (plus) list of things that make a good dancer: A good dancer... 1. Is always on time for the next figure, and makes sure his/her partner is as well. Dance with the music, on the beat and with the phrases. Flourishes can be fun, but should only be done if there is extra time available. It can be just as satisfying to spend a few seconds holding hands with your partner as it is to twirl around three extra times. 2. Dances at the level of their partner. Adjust your dancing to match the skill level and style of whoever you may be dancing with at the moment. This means making a very quick evaluation as you meet someone in the line and modifying your dancing to accomadate them. For instance, follow the signals of the person being chained as to whether to twirl or do a normal courtesy turn. Don't try fancy embellishments until your partner is ready for them. 5. Dances with the entire set and not just as an individual or a couple. It is possible to concentrate so much on your own dancing pleasure that you annoy or disrupt the other people in the set. 8. Is gentle with their partner. Never force unnecessary physical stress or movement on another dancer. Always make sure your partner has stopped moving before letting go after a swing or a twirl. Don't squeeze or twist other dancers' hands on allemandes or balances, make your hands like hooks and hook the other person's hand such that you have a firm connection, but so that they can be released easily. 9. Always makes sure their partner has a good time. Have fun, it's what we're there for, but make sure that everyone else does as well. 11. Can dance well with newcomers. Make them feel welcome and help them learn. 12. Is always courteous to the other dancers. Always listen politely to the caller during the walk-through. You may know this dance by heart, but the people around you may not. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:07:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:07:16 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980218160716.47475-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199802181954.OAA07035-AT- is2.nyu.edu> Quoting Daniel J. Walkowitz (walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu): > I'm going out for an evening of dancing with friends > >and acquaintences...no audience. > > > Ah, but we dance with a partner, set and line. If one goes on a walkabout > while the others dance, one may be having fun, but one is also being rude > and, often, interfering with their fun. It is hard to be self-contained in > a social event. > Danny Walkowitz Oh, absolutely. But what I'm saying is that a fairnumber of folks here are seeming to be saying that they hold the exclusive knowledge of what is right and wrong during an ECD and that their ways must be held to or one is being rude and a bad dnacer. What I'm trying to say is that one can be very much part of the dance, dancing with the line, with ones partner, with the corners, neighbors, etc etc. and still be doing things outside of their proscribed limits. I do so regularly and have been told by many folks that I'm a good dancer. Not great, mind you. I blow moves here and there. I lose timing. But usually if that's the case for a dance, I'm not embelishing anyway. What I'm suggesting is a viewpoint more along the lines of "There is a baseline needed for this recreational activity to work. In the case of ECD, it's timing, socialness (sociability, perhaps. I'm also stunningly disgusted with the person on rec.folk-dancing who seems to be saying that he dislikes squares because he looks upon a night of contra/squares as a chance to dance with his partner only and squares make him dance with others too much!), willingness to try hard to do the dance moves in the order and speed they're supposed to be done in, and a certain amount of style is good if you can do that after everything else. Beyond that, this is supposed to be a fun social activity. Conversation and flirting during a dance is VERY well documented. There's no good reason that we can't do some things beyond what is called from the head of the hall, assuming that they don't interfere with the flow of the dance. Why can't people just relax and dance?" More or less. JB (This is probably revisable and I might do so as this conversation continues.) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:06:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:06:49 -0500 From: bec-AT- pobox.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802182206.RAA25011-AT- sunspot.excalib.com> Alan Winston wrote: >People are allowed to have opinions, and I don't think the fact that someone Saying "I personally don't like X, Y or Z" is expressing an opinion; complaining that you don't like X, Y, or Z and therefore the person(s) who do(es) is violating the spirit of the dance ("spirit of the dance?" as determined by whom?) and ruining the dance for everyone (everyone? because *you* don't like it, *everyone* is unhappy?) is arrogance; setting oneself up as arbiter of what is acceptable and unacceptable is damned self-righteous. And I have seen more than one comment in this thread along these lines. >Clue: Petronella is a CONTRA dance. Clue: context-- this is the *ECD* list, and the people complaining about the clapping are *ECD* dancers, in an *ECD* context. >Jonathan Sivier wrote: >as well. I don't consider these people to be good dancers, no matter how ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >much experience they may have. Here are some excerpts from my top ten (plus) >list of things that make a good dancer: ^^^^^^^^^^^ Look, I'm not defending obnoxious behavior on the dance floor, and I do not argue with your list, but the point you are missing is that this is SOCIAL DANCING, and it is NOT JUST FOR "GOOD" DANCERS!!! As long as dances are open to all, you are going to GET bad dancers. You cannot *legislate* either considerate behavior or good performance, and if you attempt to you have just passed out of the realm of social dance into something else. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:14:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:10:40 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Another Fine Flurry To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980218221040.1291.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Well, much as I hate to change the subject from all the fun we are having with that other thread (Screaming yellow zonkers! like, wow, flashback city, man. How many people here even know what screaming yellow zonkers are? or were?) but I want to put in my two cents to congratulate Gene Murrow on another wonderful program of English dances at the Mohank-Hudson Traditional Dance Flurry in Saratoga Springs last weekend. Both the Saturday night English Party, and the Sunday afternoon final English session were terrific programs, fabulous music (a thanks to Bare Neccesities), and it seemed to me, a very high level of dancing all around. A nod to my fellow dancers. Whether intentionally or not, as partners or members of a set, you gave me a great deal of pleasure. And I'd like to thank Gene also for continuing to inject new dances into his programs in a way that makes us (me, anyway) more aware and appreciative of the talent and contributions from within the community. In this case, my award for neatest dance that I'd never danced before goes to Victor (whose name I can't possibly spell, but you know who you are and if you don't Gene does) for "Oh Susata" (and I ain't too certain of the spelling of that one either, but I know I'm ready to dance it again). Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT ---Jonathan Sivier wrote: > > bec-AT- pobox.com writes: > > > > >God forbid that we should have individual expression, or evolution > >within the dances, or any deviation from the One True Style, whatever > >that may be. And how dare the person who does deviate ruin our > >evening by having fun of which we don't approve. > > > > >After following this thread and seeing these self-righteous, intolerant > >Attitudes (with a capital A), I finally, unfortunately, understand the > >disparaging remarks I have heard from fellow dancers about "Dance Police." > >I'm beginning, too, to understand why many contra dancers despise > >ECD'ers as cold unfriendly snobs, or worse. > > >Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. > > I haven't gotten the impression that anyone is disparaging dancers for > having fun or putting some self-expression into their dancing. As you say > it is social dancing. However there are people that one runs into (literally > sometimes) occasionally who are so wrapped up in their own fun that no one > around them has any fun. In fact they can be dangerous to be around. They > are the ones who will whirl you around 5 times whether you want or are able to > do it or not. They also don't care whether there is time available or not, > thus making every neighbor they have down the line late for the next figure. > When you are trailing one of these dancers every new neighbor you come to is > late. This certainly is a case of their having fun at the expense of those > around them. I've seen dancers who are so busy putting in extra twirls, spins, > kicks and leaps that they aren't aware of all the people they have kicked, > tripped, stepped on, shoved and caused to cringe as they progress through the > dance. These dancers are having fun, but no one around them is. I see this > more in contra dance circles, but I suspect they are out there in ECD-land > as well. I don't consider these people to be good dancers, no matter how > much experience they may have. Here are some excerpts from my top ten (plus) > list of things that make a good dancer: > > A good dancer... > > 1. Is always on time for the next figure, and makes sure his/her partner is > as well. Dance with the music, on the beat and with the phrases. > Flourishes can be fun, but should only be done if there is extra time > available. It can be just as satisfying to spend a few seconds holding > hands with your partner as it is to twirl around three extra times. > > 2. Dances at the level of their partner. Adjust your dancing to match the > skill level and style of whoever you may be dancing with at the moment. > This means making a very quick evaluation as you meet someone in the line > and modifying your dancing to accomadate them. For instance, follow > the signals of the person being chained as to whether to twirl or do a > normal courtesy turn. Don't try fancy embellishments until your partner > is ready for them. > > 5. Dances with the entire set and not just as an individual or a couple. It > is possible to concentrate so much on your own dancing pleasure that you > annoy or disrupt the other people in the set. > > 8. Is gentle with their partner. Never force unnecessary physical stress or > movement on another dancer. Always make sure your partner has stopped > moving before letting go after a swing or a twirl. Don't squeeze or > twist other dancers' hands on allemandes or balances, make your hands > like hooks and hook the other person's hand such that you have a firm > connection, but so that they can be released easily. > > 9. Always makes sure their partner has a good time. Have fun, it's what > we're there for, but make sure that everyone else does as well. > > 11. Can dance well with newcomers. Make them feel welcome and help them > learn. > > 12. Is always courteous to the other dancers. Always listen politely to the > caller during the walk-through. You may know this dance by heart, but the > people around you may not. > > Jonathan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | > | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | > | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | > | Beckman Institute | | > | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | > | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | > | Work: 217/244-1923 | | > | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:07:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:07:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802182307.RAA22348-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> bec-AT- pobox.com writes: >Look, I'm not defending obnoxious behavior on the dance floor, and >I do not argue with your list, but the point you are missing is that >this is SOCIAL DANCING, and it is NOT JUST FOR "GOOD" DANCERS!!! As long >as dances are open to all, you are going to GET bad dancers. You cannot >*legislate* either considerate behavior or good performance, and if you >attempt to you have just passed out of the realm of social dance into >something else. The fact is that people can and do legislate considerate behavior and to a lesser degree good performance. There is no formal process, but whether we like it or not people who behave in an obnoxious manner tend to be reproved by those around them one way or another. Some pick up on this and ammend their ways and become accepted members of the group, others do not and remain outcasts to one extent or another. No matter how social the activity is there can still be a goal for accepted or proper behavior or performance to be striven for. Shape note singing is a social activity, yet someone who delibrately sang off-key (because they enjoyed it) would be discouraged from doing so. I don't think anyone is saying that there is an absolute model for proper English dancing which must be maintained. I think people are saying that there are certain things that they find more pleasing than others and that it is OK to bring these to the attention of the group and have everyone work towards a minimax solution, maximizing the pleasure of the group, while minimizing the displeasure of individuals. Thus individual expression is allowed, and even encouraged, within specified limits. To take an example from earlier in this thread, if you want to turn more than once in Dublin Bay it seems fine to me, as long as both people agree on doing so and you end in time for the next figure. If having your personal desires met (turning multiple times) always makes you late for the next figure, then you are detracting from the pleasure of the group as a whole and probably should be discouraged. You are correct that not everyone is a good dancer. Yet I think it is reasonable to make that one of the goals to work towards. You'll notice I didn't say anything about knowing a lot of dances or being able to do lots of figures with no teaching or anything like that. Mostly I talked about being courteous and considerate of the other dancers, the caller/leader and the band. I don't think these are unreasonable things to expect from perticipants in a SOCIAL event. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:28:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:28:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITQ95K5UKY95MRLY-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII bec -- >Alan Winston wrote: >>People are allowed to have opinions, and I don't think the fact that someone >Saying "I personally don't like X, Y or Z" is expressing an opinion; >complaining that you don't like X, Y, or Z and therefore the person(s) >who do(es) is violating the spirit of the dance ("spirit of the dance?" >as determined by whom?) and ruining the dance for everyone (everyone? >because *you* don't like it, *everyone* is unhappy?) is arrogance; >setting oneself up as arbiter of what is acceptable and unacceptable >is damned self-righteous. And I have seen more than one comment in this >thread along these lines. I think that saying something violates the spirit of the dance is still an opinion, and it's an important opinion to be allowed to have. Different kinds of dancing have different characters; everything isn't all the same thing. If nobody is allowed to think that something is inappropriate in certain contexts, then we might as well quit having different kinds of dancing. Of course the "spirit of the dance" in this context is the speaker's opinion, but it may well be informed by experience and by, for example, having read Cecil Sharp (who effectively invented ECD as known today) on the subject. Further, I think everybody involved with ECD -- especially callers and musicians -- *should have* some idea of what, to them, the spirit of the dance is. Otherwise what can they communicate to dancers? Why do it at all? I don't know who (other than me, who said that some embellishments would tend to break the mood for everybody) said that people were ruining it for everybody. While I think I'm right, I still think that's my opinion; nobody anointed me with any authority whatsoever. I ask again, is thinking some kinds of behavior inappropriate -- not necessarily doing or saying anything about it to the people involved, but just not liking it, not happily accepting it -- in itself intolerant and arrogant? >>Clue: Petronella is a CONTRA dance. >Clue: context-- this is the *ECD* list, and the people complaining about the >clapping are *ECD* dancers, in an *ECD* context. Context: Gary brought up Petronella and his experience dancing it at a contra where Eric Black (who very rarely dances English and isn't on this list) had managed to quiet it down. Eric, the contra caller, wrote a description and Gary, a contra caller and dancer and English dancer, posted it to the list. Erna-Lynne, a contra caller and English dancer and teacher, discussed her experience and opinions with clapping in Petronella at her local contra dances. Yes, some of them are English dancers, but they're talking from their viewpoints as members of a contra community. >>Jonathan Sivier wrote: >>as well. I don't consider these people to be good dancers, no matter how >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>much experience they may have. Here are some excerpts from my top ten (plus) >>list of things that make a good dancer: >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >Look, I'm not defending obnoxious behavior on the dance floor, and >I do not argue with your list, but the point you are missing is that >this is SOCIAL DANCING, and it is NOT JUST FOR "GOOD" DANCERS!!! As long >as dances are open to all, you are going to GET bad dancers. You cannot >*legislate* either considerate behavior or good performance, and if you >attempt to you have just passed out of the realm of social dance into >something else. And who was *trying* to legislate considerate behavior or good performance? We hope people will do their best to be considerate and to be good dancers; we hope that our behavior will provide good models. Did anybody suggest sending anybody to jail for excessive turning in Dublin Bay? Throwing them out of the dance? Speaking to them harshly? All that happened is that some people said, here, that they don't like it. How wrong is that? Either I'm misreading you completely (always possible), or you're engaging in a vehement argument with a position nobody has actually expressed. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:40:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:38:47 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, bec-AT- pobox.com Message-ID: <00092BA2.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Snip] >Clue: Petronella is a CONTRA dance. Clue: context-- this is the *ECD* list, and the people complaining about the clapping are *ECD* dancers, in an *ECD* context. --------------------------------------------------- Just for information, there is one English dance out there that has a Petronella figure in it. It's called The Maine Chance, being a modest tribute to Ted Sanella, who last resided in Maine. I composed this dance using Ted's dance Fiddleheads (aka The Fiddlehead Reel?) as a model, with some interesting changes, of course. Gene Murrow has been calling it here and there, adding his own variation to it (the folk process is relentless.) He called it last Sunday at the Dance Flurry, to playing by Bare Necessities, which I must say was a great pleasure for me. It's done to the tune Morpeth Lasses, which has an urgent feel to it which Gene capitalized on by having the band up the tempo and dynamics after about half a dozen rounds. Nobody clapped on the Petronella turns, but several people gave out whoops after the increased dynamics, which was thrilling for me, as I took them to be spontaneous expressions of pleasure. Regarding the above attempt to delimit discussions to ECD, I and most of the English dancers I know also dance Contras, and I don't see a problem with bringing this American descendant of ECD into the discussion some time. Marty Fager ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:00:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:47:33 -0500 (EST) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 bec-AT- pobox.com wrote: > > God forbid that we should have individual expression, or evolution > within the dances, or any deviation from the One True Style, whatever > that may be. And how dare the person who does deviate ruin our > evening by having fun of which we don't approve. > is it really "individual" expression when, for instance, a few people start inserting claps at a particular point in the dance, and then everyone else in the room winds up imitating them? i would like to point out that many contributors to this thread have spoken approvingly of playfulness within the dance - as long as it fits the mood or style. > After following this thread and seeing these self-righteous, intolerant > Attitudes (with a capital A), I finally, unfortunately, understand the > disparaging remarks I have heard from fellow dancers about "Dance Police." > I'm beginning, too, to understand why many contra dancers despise > ECD'ers as cold unfriendly snobs, or worse. please bear in mind that we are discussing these matters *outside* of the context of a dance. perhaps i've missed something, but i don't recall any contributors to this discussions advocating nastiness to the dancers whose behavior bothers us. are we not entitled to our opinions about what makes dancing more enjoyable? and entitled to express those opinions off the dance floor? please come visit the dances in princeton or titusville, n.j. if you're looking for a welcoming english dance crowd! (i think you would also find philadelphia and new york welcoming; but i dance there less often than in n.j.) for what it's worth, none of the discussants i'm acquainted with (i know several of the contributors to this thread) come across as self-righteous snobs on the dance floor. > Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. have you never been in a social setting where people did things that irritated you, and have you never complained, later, in private, to a friend, because it did not seem appropriate to confront the person who offended you? > > bec susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:09:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:56:46 -0500 (EST) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: howls To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Erna-Lynne Bogue wrote: > Other pet peeve: folks who make those really loud howls in the middle of > dances. It splits my ears, scares small children, overpowers the music > and drives me bonkers. I've never said a word about this to anyone, as > it seems to be an accepted part of the dance culture. > > Erna-Lynne sorry if i've ever hurt your ears, erna-lynne! i do let out a whoop once in a while in the midst of a dance--usually when the music has done something exciting. as a musician, i enjoy the enthusiastic noises from the dancers (vocal noises, i mean, as opposed to claps!) when the band has just done something that's intended to excite them--for instance, changed tunes, or switched from a reel or a jig, or had the rhythm instruments drop out and just the fiddles keep playing once through a southern tune... i certainly agree that when a yell drowns out the music (if it lasts for more than a second or so) it's less fun. susie lorand ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:17:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:15:04 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: light vs heat To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980218191504.7030-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Sorry to hear your world is declining. Mine is doing just fine, thank you. There's so much to laugh at nowadays. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that read something to the effect: "If you're not mad as hell, you don't know what's going on" For me, the opposite is true: "If You're not laughing like ____, you don't know what's going on" We are taking ourselves far too seriously nowadays Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:23:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:22:57 -0500 (EST) From: Capersall-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <898ad26b.34eba594-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This thread puts me in mind of a cartoon I saw: large concert hall, full symphony orchestra on stage, guy in tails holding violin standing on stage talking to audience, "And now I'd like to play a little piece I call Beethoven's Violin Concerto". I have not yet heard anyone applaud after even the most electrifying cadenza in any violin concerto, but the very same folks have clapped wildly after the fiddler's break in Orange Blossom Special. I myself dance only for my own selfish enjoyment. Unfortunately, the kind of dancing I like to do I can't do by myself, or even with one or two partners. In fact, I have more fun when there are more people who are good dancers (i.e., dance the way I like). So I figure that the more enjoyable my local dances are for people who dance like that, then the likelier it is that I'll have a good time when I go. In fact, the more people who exist who like to do this kind of dancing, the more chances I'll have to enjoy myself. Given the small number of people who do know how to do this stuff and like it, I feel as though this entire delightful experience could disappear in a matter of just a few years if not nurtured. Maybe when the number of active ECdancers in the US is equal to the capacity of the smallest pro footbal stadium I'll feel as though I don't need to care what anybody thinks about how I behave while dancing. I'm also reminded of that old story about the definition of a gentleman [I'm sure someone on list will have the cite]; a youngster thinks that a gentleman is some one who would never intentionally cause pain to another; the older guy knows that a gentleman is some one who would never unintentionally cause pain. JB says he's "going out for an evening of dancing with friends and acquaintances...no audience." Yes, precisely. I figure that if I do things that I *know* my "friends and acquaintances" don't like, my friends will become acquaintances or less soon enough. Art Munisteri ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 21:38:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:38:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Jailbait wrote: > Sorry, Dawn, I don't mean to only follow up to you and make it look like I > only have a problem with you...you just keep having the last word waiting when > I get in in the morning...:) That's what happens when you deal with a former overnight radio announcer - they never learn when to go to bed. :-) BTW, do you live in DC? or Baltimore? Have we met, by any chance? Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:10:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:03:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: Blind.Copy.Receiver-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Hanny D. Budnick wrote: > Would you start music lessons by starting with your graduation piece? I teach guitar, and no, I probably wouldn't. But, just for the record, a friend of mine once took guitar lessons from a teacher who started him out by playing Mississippi John Hurt's "Spike Driver Blues", a very subtle and tricky piece (not because of weird chords or fast picking, but because the syncopations are counter-intuitive, especially to Euro-American ears), and telling him "That's going to be your first piece, and we'll work on it until you have it, with all the details and subtleties." They spent over a year on that one piece. As I say, it's not the way I'd teach a beginning student, but I'm obligated to report that my friend is now one of the best guitarists in town. Peace. Paul PS Obviously this method of teaching would be a disaster in a social dance setting -- although it might make a *very* interesting all-day workshop for a bunch of new dancers. But when you asked the rhetorical question, I had to tell that story. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:40:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 22:35:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > And who was *trying* to legislate considerate behavior or good performance? > We hope people will do their best to be considerate and to be good dancers; > we hope that our behavior will provide good models. Did anybody suggest > sending anybody to jail for excessive turning in Dublin Bay? Throwing them out > of the dance? Speaking to them harshly? All that happened is that some people > said, here, that they don't like it. How wrong is that? > > Either I'm misreading you completely (always possible), or you're engaging in a > vehement argument with a position nobody has actually expressed. I think bec, and perhaps Jailbait as well, was responding more to the tone of the thread than to some of the statements. Along around the time the "Petronella Clap" was the center of it, the talk was pretty vehement; words like "hate" were getting used pretty freely, and people were waxing mighty wroth. Go read some of those posts; it sure sounded like people were over-reacting to me, and I think that's what b. and j. may have been reacting to. (Of course, they can speak easily for themselves!) Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:40:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:40:44 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998 bec-AT- pobox.com wrote: [snip] > >Clue: Petronella is a CONTRA dance. > Clue: context-- this is the *ECD* list, and the people complaining about the > clapping are *ECD* dancers, in an *ECD* context. I believe I introduced the first reference to "Petronella" in this thread, in response (Feb. 2) to a posting by Larry Stout relating to the number of turns in Dublin Bay. I am quite aware that "Petronella" is done here as a contra dance, and that this is a list about ECD. But "Petronella" does have origins in Britain, and the fact that it is done here as a contra doesn't make the parallel example any less relevant -- the point was that such extraneous stuff, applied indiscriminately, tends to degrade more than enhance. Judging by the chorus of replies, I wasn't too far out on a limb with that opinion. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:53:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:53:21 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Maine Chance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Martin Fager wrote: [snip] > Just for information, there is one English dance out there that has a > Petronella figure in it. It's called The Maine Chance, being a modest > tribute to Ted Sanella, who last resided in Maine. I composed this dance > using Ted's dance Fiddleheads (aka The Fiddlehead Reel?) as a model, with > some interesting changes, of course. And a fine dance it is, too! I remember it distinctly from the Flurry a year ago, when we danced it up in the old Town Hall on Sunday afternoon. I recall it had some really fine BUTs (see posting on ANDs, ORs, & BUTs) in it. It deserves wider appreciation, in my opinion. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:21:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:17:59 -0500 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199802191019_MC2-33EC-3B51-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry-I don't think of myself as a dance "snab" and resent being labeled such. HOWEVER (yes I am shouting) I dance English Country Dancing, Scotti= sh Country Dancing and at least "traditional" Contra Dance (at 75, with arthritis I find the twrls and overly vigorous swinging of "modern" contr= as just too much for me) and I would like all three forms to keep their individual identities. Evolution-Yes! Revolution-No! and homogenouzation-never!! I don't think this is snobbery-just the result of= over 60 years of folk, square, contra, English, Scottish and ballroom dancing. Thanks to both Alan, Hanny, and particularly Jonathan for their comments = on the subject. Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:48:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:48:34 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980219104834.10612-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: Quoting Dawn Culbertson (dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu): > > BTW, do you live in DC? or Baltimore? Have we met, by any chance? > Because a couple of folks have asked... Brief description: 6', somewhat overweight - though I don't look my weight, long black hair, full beard/mustache. Lived in the DC area for years...danced up at Lovely Lane when I was living on the MD side of things and more recently at Glen Echo Town Hall, up through Nov. Yes, Dawn, we've danced. :) JB ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:03:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:03:27 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802191703.LAA24388-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> Benjamin Stein writes: >Sorry-I don't think of myself as a dance "snab" and resent being labeled >such. HOWEVER (yes I am shouting) I dance English Country Dancing, Scottish >Country Dancing and at least "traditional" Contra Dance (at 75, with >arthritis I find the twrls and overly vigorous swinging of "modern" contras >just too much for me) and I would like all three forms to keep their >individual identities. Evolution-Yes! Revolution-No! and >homogenouzation-never!! I don't think this is snobbery-just the result of >over 60 years of folk, square, contra, English, Scottish and ballroom >dancing. I would also like to see these (and other) dance forms keep their individual identities. I like the fact that they have similarities, but the differences are one of the things that make them enjoyable. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:08:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:08:41 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: top ten list To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802191708.LAA26651-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> I've had several requests for my top ten list, so I thought I would post it to the list. This was originally composed with contra dance in mind. While many of the points are generally applicable to many forms of dance (and other activities) some are particular to contra dance. Perhaps people can suggest some additions or substitutions specific to ECD. While I wrote many of the items and did the editing, please note the list of contributors at the end. Enjoy. Jonathan ------ The Top Ten (plus) Things That Make a Good (Contra) Dancer. A good dancer... 1. Is always on time for the next figure, and makes sure his/her partner is as well. Dance with the music, on the beat and with the phrases. Flourishes can be fun, but should only be done if there is extra time available. It can be just as satisfying to spend a few seconds holding hands with your partner as it is to twirl around three extra times. 2. Dances at the level of their partner. Adjust your dancing to match the skill level and style of whoever you may be dancing with at the moment. This means making a very quick evaluation as you meet someone in the line and modifying your dancing to accomadate them. For instance, follow the signals of the person being chained as to whether to twirl or do a normal courtesy turn. Don't try fancy embellishments until your partner is ready for them. 3. Has a smooth swing. All motion should be horizontal, none vertical. Whether you use a walking swing or a buzz step, make sure it is smooth. Imagine there's a glass of water on the top of your head. Hold your back straight with your arms up, your shoulders parallel to your partner's and your weight over your own feet. Don't hang on your partner, the support you give one another is just what is needed to keep the centrifugal force of the swing from throwing you apart. 4. Gives lots of eye contact. On all figures look at the people you are dancing with. This goes for circles and same-sex allemandes just as much as for gypsies and swings. Flirt with the people you meet, it's fun and non-fattening. 5. Dances with the entire set and not just as an individual or a couple. It is possible to concentrate so much on your own dancing pleasure that you annoy or disrupt the other people in the set. 6. Can recover if the set gets messed up. If you get lost or your minor set breaks down you should know where you need to go next. Skip the next figure or figures, walk to progressed position or to the next partner swing, and get ready to pick up when the music comes around again. 7. Gives weight on all figures where you contact other dancers. Hold your arms firm, but springy, so the other person knows they are dancing with someone. Give them your support. 8. Is gentle with their partner. Never force unnecessary physical stress or movement on another dancer. Always make sure your partner has stopped moving before letting go after a swing or a twirl. Don't squeeze or twist other dancers' hands on allemandes or balances, make your hands like hooks and hook the other person's hand such that you have a firm connection, but so that they can be released easily. 9. Always makes sure their partner has a good time. Have fun, it's what we're there for, but make sure that everyone else does as well. 10. Can dance the opposite part. Men will learn a lot from being chained. Women will learn a lot from leading a swing. 11. Can dance well with newcomers. Make them feel welcome and help them learn. 12. Is always courteous to the other dancers. Always listen politely to the caller during the walk-through. You may know this dance by heart, but the people around you may not. Always..., but that's another list. Thanks for the contributions from; Jane Billman Michael Elizabeth Chastain Cindy Dodds Robert Ennis Elizabeth Gremore Figa Lyle Hodgson Manohar Kulkarni Patricia Ann Moffitt John D. Noonan Jonathan Sivier ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:55:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:54:36 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New gems and paradoxes To: ECD_LIST Message-ID: <199802192155_MC2-3408-D1A1-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some of the postings in the recent exciting series on "Woofers, Tweeters,..." mentioned a couple of new dances I've been calling and promoting: Marty Fager's "Maine Chance" (with the Petronella-like figure= ) and Victor Skowronski's "O Susato" (to a great tune in Tielman Susato's 1551 collection of Renaissance dances). [shameless plug] You can enjoy these two dances, and many more like them= written by East Coast (US) choreographers such as Fried Herman and Gary Roodman, at the "Stars of the East" sessions I'll be doing for experience= d dancers at this summer's "English Week" at Mendocino, sponsored by the BACDS (Bay Area Country Dance Society). I don't have the contact/registration info in front of me, but I'm sure Alisa Dodson (on this list) could post it. While I've got the airwaves (IP packets? electrons and phosphors?), it is= MHO that the controversy surrounding individual expression in ECD stems from an underlying inescapable paradox: the ECD we're discussing (mainly Playford style) is a "cultured" genre of dance, that we happen to be doin= g in a "vernacular" or community setting. The dances published in Playford= were intended for an audience that spent many hours learning, practicing,= and enjoying them within a narrow social milieu (although some of the descriptions of and complaints about the Assembly rooms at Bath in the 18= th C. do sound like some of the postings on "Woofers, Tweeter..." :-) ). = Many of us like the stylized, evolved, often complex Playford-style dance= s, but we also like to whoop it up with our friends, and invite newcomers to= join us. A paradox. = Of course there exist English dances-- the "barn dances" or "ceilidh dances"-- that *are* in the vernacular or community tradition, and that c= an tolerate a much greater degree of individual expression than the Playford= dances, or than the Kirov's corps de ballet (to dance out to the other en= d of the spectrum. I did try calling Swan Lake last Tuesday in NY, and eve= n played the opening bars, but, alas, few people took me up on it...). Gene Murrow EC Dancer and Caller (who, with one mis-timed prompt or self-indulgent variation, has spoiled a whole roomful of dancers' enjoyment, making discomforting one's partner with an extra twirl or two small potatoes indeed) = ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:10:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 23:13:46 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802200351.WAA18844-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. Exactly, but I believe the complaints were about anti-social dancing. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 07:25:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:25:39 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: worser and worser To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Reading list of qualities that make good dancers... Reminds me of contests to create the World's Worst Contra (or Country) Dance. I always thought that had great potential. How about the World's Worst Dance for the World's Worst Dancers? Sort of a P.D.Q. Bach meets Playford. The Mind, and maybe even the Dance, Reels. Actually also with the World's Worst Musicians. (Whatever happened to the Earthworms, incidentally?) I guess it's possible to compose the World's Worst Dance. Though designation of the World's Worst Dancers + Musicians... Hey, and callers too ... Should probably be done in secret. Make up the list, go down into a basement or the equivalent, and shout out the names into a bag. Then burn the bag. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:31:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: jailbait-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:31:21 -0500 From: Jailbait Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980220113121.17372-AT- apocalypse.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii References: <199802200351.WAA18844-AT- ns.kreative.net> Quoting Rich Galloway (rich-AT- kreative.net): > > > Last time I looked, this was still *social* dancing. > > Exactly, but I believe the complaints were about anti-social dancing. And how various people /define/ _WHAT_ antisocial is. JB ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:04:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: worser and worser To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITSXWYTHOU95MQEW-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Steve Corrsin wrote: How about the World's Worst Dance for the World's Worst Dancers? Sort of a P.D.Q. Bach meets Playford. The Mind, and maybe even the Dance, Reels. If James Langdell, who subscribes to this list, has time, perhaps he can give us the program of last year's PEERS PDQ Bach Symposium and Ball, for which his Divertimento Dance Orchestra provided music. But, in short, last year PDQ Bach met Playford, and the mind boggled indeed. (PEERS, http://www.peers.org, does 'historical' 'recreation' events, generally involving dance, in the Bay Area. They have a wonderful sense of whimsy, too. This weekend they're doing "Don Juan's Big Ball", recreating the ball in Mozart's Don Giovanni with costume, dances, and a tremendous sense of fun. Actually, the Peninsula section of the SF Chronicle put them on their Weekend Best Bets list, with an interesting typo showing that they'll be doing Mozart waltzes and "redanses" by other period composers.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:59:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:56:28 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Flavors of English Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A group of people here in Santa Barbara is interested in starting up a regular dance of the English variety. Some have a background in English Regency Dance, others in CDSS-style English Country Dance. There are some Scottish Country dancers interested, and at least one SCA activist. I think it would be foolish to try to start two different groups, so I'm hoping we can work out a way to at least partially satisfy everyone. I know this is backwards from the way things work in this day and age, but we need each other. The group grew out of an Adult Ed class, Dances of the English Regency. I recruited several people to the class from the (CDSS-style) contra dance community, and I know I can recruit several more to a series. Hopefully I can recruit, no, *invite*, some musicians to who can work, no, *play*, for tips. Any suggestions or comments? -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Alternate address: gshapiro-AT- rain.org; please send copy of bounces Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:24:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: (From James Langdell) PDQ Bach Ball To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITT2XZS55Q95MQEW-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII [James had a problem posting to the list, which I'm sorting out, but here is his reply on the PDQ Bach ball I mentioned in my reply to Steve Corrsin] > Steve Corrsin wrote: > > How about the World's Worst Dance for the World's Worst Dancers? Sort of a > P.D.Q. Bach meets Playford. The Mind, and maybe even the Dance, Reels. > Alan Winston wrote > > If James Langdell, who subscribes to this list, has time, perhaps he can give > us the program of last year's PEERS PDQ Bach Symposium and Ball, for which his > Divertimento Dance Orchestra provided music. But, in short, last year PDQ Bach > met Playford, and the mind boggled indeed. > Here's one quick item from our P.D.Q. Bach festival ball. For the grand march, we played the "Holborn March" tune as a backbone to musicians playing excerpts from other march tunes (Sousa, March Slav, Ode To Joy). At first, occasional other tunes, in compatible keys, were thrown in by one musician at a time (from a band of five). As the march progressed (sic), several tunes in more distant keys were thrown in, until all musicians were playing different marches, in different keys, all to the same pulse that the dancers were marching to. --James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com Sun Microsystems Menlo Park, Calif. =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:31:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:31:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Flavors of English Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITT3U79I3O95MQEW-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gary wrote: A group of people here in Santa Barbara is interested in starting up a regular dance of the English variety. Mazel Tov! Some have a background in English Regency Dance, others in CDSS-style English Country Dance. There are some Scottish Country dancers interested, and at least one SCA activist. I think it would be foolish to try to start two different groups, so I'm hoping we can work out a way to at least partially satisfy everyone. I know this is backwards from the way things work in this day and age, but we need each other. What wasn't clear to me about that "Dances of the English Regency" class was what kind of Regency dance they were teaching. In an email to me you mentioned that the setting seemed to be more restrained than CDSS English; this leads me to suspect that what they were teaching was Friends of the English Regency dance, as invented by John Hertz some 25 years ago and promulgated by him and others (including me) since, although my interests have shifted in two different directions since -- toward Sharp-style English and toward scrupulously-reconstructed period dance, although I'm not particularly good at the latter. The John style and canon were derived in accordance with John's ideas of Regency aesthetics in general, of what is easy for beginners (with which I sometimes disagree), and his sense of humor. This sometimes means that he changes Sharp-style dances in incompatible ways. But in general, the John style is restrained and physically undemanding, and has _even less_ footwork than Sharp style. (If you're interested in John-style Regency dance, you should come to the Annual Assembly of the Friends of the English Regency, at the Clarion Hotel in Millbrae, 3/27-3/29. http://www.regencyfriends.org for details; John will teach extensively. Yes, that is the same weekend as the BACDS Playford Ball. Kill me.) The historical style is quite the other way. To oversimplify greatly, it looks to me a lot like modern RSCDS-style Scottish. People tend, generally, to either like footwork or dislike it, and in vintage dance I come across a lot of people who aren't very much interested if it doesn't have footwork. In country dance I come across people who are scared off by footwork. (Does your SCA activist do Playford, or Renaissance court dances? That's probably the diagnostic for which category he or she falls into.) Your challenges, in this mixed group, may be in reconciling those attitudes. The group grew out of an Adult Ed class, Dances of the English Regency. I recruited several people to the class from the (CDSS-style) contra dance community, and I know I can recruit several more to a series. Hopefully I can recruit, no, *invite*, some musicians to who can work, no, *play*, for tips. Any suggestions or comments? Do Santa Barbara contradancers have the anti-English feeling seen elsewhere? Do you have obstacles to overcome? (I'd heard that Charlie Fenton called a well-received English session at the Sprung Floor Festival last year.) Do you have organizational support, or are you on your own? Are these interested people, or some significant portion of them, willing to be on a dance committee and do actual work? Involve them as soon as feasible in hall search, recruitment, and general organization. If it ends up being Gary's dance, it will drive you nuts pretty quickly. Aside from that, I'd say, make the musicians the highest priority. I find adequate, cooperative, live musicians more satisfactory in almost every way than tapes, no matter how good the musicians on tape are. Especially with a brand new group, you want to be able to walk through portions of the dance with music, to be able to adjust the tempo to the abilities of the group, and in general to be more interactive than you can get with recorded music. (And live music is just much cooler, and a good thing to be able to put on your flyer.) A good venue is the second priority. You know the necessaries from organizing contras, although you may be able to do well with a much smaller place. Acoustics are extremely important; instruction and music must be audible to be effective. Are you planning to lead? Then it's really important that you know the material. Even if you are planning to lead, try to develop other local callers; you want to be able to dance sometimes (and be out of town sometimes), and it makes people feel more involved. [Richard Payatt did an amazing, funny, and effective quick teach of the tango at the Celebrate History ball here on Valentine's day; he might be someone to involve, and I know he's in that class too. I don't know if he does or wants to do country dance instruction.] If you're on your own, consider signing up as a CDSS affiliate. It's not very expensive and gives you access to various benefits, including listings in the group directory and inexpensive insurance, which is helpful with halls. You might also consider having the occasional gala, getting an out-of-town caller with some cachet in on a weekend night and promoting it heavily to contra and IFD people. If your local contra-supporting organization is behind you, try to get them to book a bilingual contra-English caller (like David Newitt or Jody McGeen from the Bay Area or a whole bunch of East Coast and Midwest folks) who can put on a contra evening with a bunch of English dances. That isn't an effective way to nourish a local community, but it might be a helpful jump start. (I'd love to come down and do it, but I have, realistically, no marquee value.) Anyway, good luck! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:16:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:15:38 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Flavors of English Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Against many fibers of my being, I will have to delay responses to this thread until my newsletter is out the door, early next week. I'm getting a little verklempt, so discuss amongst yourselves. [apologies to whoever it was on r.f-d who said the same recently] -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Alternate address: gshapiro-AT- rain.org; please send copy of bounces Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:01:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:01:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Revised version of history article [_LONG_]; comment still sought To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITTAKHKV9E95MRLV-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII There are written references to English Country Dance going as far back as the 1400s, but the first published dance descriptions and tunes we have are in publisher John Playford's collection, "The English Country Dancing Master", first printed in 1651, going through many different editions over the next hundred and thirty years. (There was a lively trade in pirated editions of Playford, as well as other country dance collections.) Dances were written to folk tunes, popular ballads, and stage music, as well as music composed for the purpose. A number of dances used music by Henry Purcell. Plays often used a country dance as an afterpiece; Thomas Bray's published a collection of dances written for that purpose. An excellent book covering the origins and modern interpretations of individual dances is _The Playford Ball_, by Genevieve Shimer and Kate van Winkle Keller, published by CDSS (http://www.cdss.org) and Da Capo Press. English Country dancing went to North America with the colonists. In New England especially, country dance was extremely popular through the early 1800s. Americans eagerly awaited new dance books from England; they also wrote their own dances and published their own books. Country dance, of essentially the English style, was popular throughout Europe. Beethoven and Mozart wrote country dance music. Our first hard information about footwork comes from a French book of 1710, Feuillet's _Recuil de Contredanse_ - which was shortly thereafter translated into English by John Essex. The popularity of the quadrilles, spreading from France in the early 1800s, eroded the appeal of country dancing in fashionable urban areas - both in the US and England - but the death blow came with the couple-dancing/ballroom dance crazes. When the polka swept across Europe in 1844, it legitimized the waltz in polite society, and subsequent dance fashions changed social dance in the cities almost completely into couple dances. (With a few token exceptions. The Lancer's Quadrille was done throughout the Victorian period; the Virginia Reel retained some currency as well. Victorian balls often had cotillons -- not to be confused with cotillions, an American predecessor to quadrilles; cotillons (apparently originating in Germany) were a combination of dance and party game.) By mid-century, country dancing had retreated to, well, the country. Americans kept on country dancing in Appalachia, and in small New England towns; quadrilles spawned square dances in the Midwest. (Tom Senior reports seeing a copy of a dance manual published in Indiana by a French dancing master as he passed through in 1835, while country dancing could still support dancing masters.) In England, country dancing became the province of the villages exclusively, and most villages had only a few dances which they'd do at all their celebrations. English and American Country dance were cut off; dancing masters rarely travelled between the countries, there was no trade in country dance books. Not surprisingly, the two dance forms diverged considerably. (But some connections are still very evident. "Sir Roger de Coverly," which Dickens mentions in "A Christmas Carol", is essentially the same dance as the "Virginia Reel.") ECD was essentially dead by the beginning of this century, while contra dance and square dance was still alive, if in hiding. Ethnomusicologist Cecil Sharp and his followers collected extant country dances from villages, then turned to printed sources to develop a large repertoire of English Country dances. He started a revival movement, published new books of country dance, founded the English Folk Dance & Song Society, and brought ECD back into the cities, making it again a living tradition. In the 90 or so years of the revival, ECD has been researched; more authentic reconstruction of historical dances have been done, and people have written many new dances. [The style we use today is basically Sharp's style, even when later research has disclosed that it was not historically correct.] Sharp came over to the US in the 'teens, and did some ethnomusicological research. He reported on the "Kentucky Running Set" dances, Big Circle dances where there were no musical instruments and rhythm was provided by body percussion. He collected other dances, and provided the impetus for the 1915 founding the Country Dance & Song Society, which has done a lot of good work in promoting English, Contra, and ritual dance. (CDSS started out as the American branch of the English Folk Dance & Song Society, and changed the name in 1940 to reflect a growing interest in American dance.) [I'll leave out Lloyd Shaw's revival of square dancing in the 30s and 40s, which seems to have spawned the "club squares" movement, because I don't know that much about it.] The big folk revival of the sixties and seventies brought traditional dance and music to the fore again, and contra dancing came back to the cities, starting in New England but spreading throughout the US, and even back to England, where dance clubs often do ECD and contra together in a single evening. English ceilidh dances do traditional (not, generally, Playford-style) dances to high-energy, modern, eclectic music. Differences in English and Contra: Music ----- Modern contra dances are usually done, on the West and East Coasts, to medleys of jigs and reels, chosen by the band. The same dance might be done on different evenings to three different sets of three different tunes each, all of them in 2/4, 4/4, or 6/8 time, each tune played for thirty-two bars per time through the dance. Tempos are usually pretty consistent throughout the evening, generally pretty fast. In the Midwest and South, according to Paul Stamler, most contra is done to old time music, mostly sticking to one tune per dance; 99% of this repertoire is in 4/4 time. English dances are usually written to go with specific tunes, so you get the same tune each time. There's more variety in meter; some dances are in waltz time, polka time, minuet time, or other options. (In the US, most dances are still done with a simple dance walk, but see "Footwork" below.) The tempo may vary widely from dance to dance, from very slow to very fast. The English dancer is encouraged to "dance to the phrase of the music", starting and finishing figures when the music says to do it. This is a good idea in contra dancing, too, but sometimes difficult -- and impossible in Southern squares, which are danced unphrased. Formations ---------- Contras are usually done with partners across from each other in long lines. Many English dances use this formation, but there are also three, four, five couple set dances, some in circles, squares, or other formations. (Colin Hume says that the US uses a much higher percentage of longways dances than the UK.) Figures ------- English commonly uses a wider variety of figures than contra dance does. (The contra dance figure vocabulary expands frequently, often through borrowings from some flavors of square dance, but the number of core figures is smaller.) You'll see heys-for-three more often than heys-for-four. Two hand turns are much more frequent than partner swings -- although in England, partner swings are more frequent than in the US. There's a lot more emphasis on eye contact than on physical contact, which makes flirting a bit subtler, but just as much fun. Footwork -------- As originally done, "historical" English dances used _serious_ footwork. (The names of various steps might be familiar to modern ballet dancers.) We don't know precisely what the appropriate footwork was for every period, but we have some good ideas for the 18th and 19th centuries. There were a wide variety of setting steps as well. Few modern reconstructions (with the notable exception of the work of Chip Hendrickson's work on Early American dance and his "English Dances for the Dutch Court") make use of this step vocabulary; you'll very occasionally see a simple minuet step. "Traditional" dances used simple, vigorous, stepping of several varieties. Some give the opportunity for improvisatory step dance, which could be as complicated as the dancer wanted to make it. These include skipping, slipping, polka, skip-change, step-hop, and rants, both travelling and in place. In the United States, the overwhelming majority of dances done nowadays use the dance walk, with the addition only of skipping, skip-change, and slipping. You'll see an occasional step-hop or rant dance. In Britain, the story is considerably different. At a ceilidh dance [see http://www.ftech.co.uk/~webfeet/eceilidh/Overview.html for a lot of information] you will hardly see a walking step all evening, says my informant. Indeed, if an English caller says to "dance" a figure, that means to use some appropriate kind of stepping. Acknowledgements ---------------- Thanks for corrections and suggestions from members of the ECD list, including Paul Stamler, Colin Hume, Carol Martinez, Tom Senior, Roger Broseus, and John Ramsay. Any errors remaining are entirely my fault. =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 07:41:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:40:45 -0500 (EST) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The geometry of social dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2c60ae52.34eef580-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From John Ramsay in St Louis. . . Dance reflects society. Here is a simplistic overview to make a point. . . Sellengers Round, Gathering Peascods, Pepper's Black, Kentucky Running Set etc. reflect a communal CIRCLE, perhaps as ancient as Stonehenge. When country dances moved into the manor houses (17th century), the circle broke and became a longways LINE to match the configuration of the great halls and a hierarchical, feudal, social structure with its head and foot. In the industrial revolution a great surge of freedom washed upon the industrialized countries and PAIRS of dancers (1830's) broke loose from the confines of communal dance (Curt Sachs calls it choral dance) and began dashing around the floor in a whole series of couple dances: the waltz, polka, mazurka, lindy, fox trot, jitterbug, etc. With the technological revolution in our lifetime, society said "Do your own thing" and dancers responded by becoming solo POINTS on the floor in the Twist, etc.. Country dancers have chosen to rebuild a sense of community thru dance. We realize that society cannot exist if each person does their own thing and we also realize that a completely rigid social structure is inhuman. The American Bill of Rights is a splendid document and tries to legislate certain rights. But is also a reflection of the inequities of its day. It talks about individual rights: I must have free speech, I must have freedom to worship, I must have a free press. But this is only half of human living. Freedom is a condition of society, not a matter of individual rights; it can only be created jointly. Freedom requires us to listen as well as to speak up, to tolerate divergent views as well as to hold to our own deepest beliefs, to seriously read what others say as well as to express ourselves in print with civility. THEREFORE: I am delighted with the recent exchanges via this network. I see a community of individuals speaking up, listening, dialoging, and exhibiting all the attributes of a healthy human society. It is a bit messy (I would prefer to call it VIBRANT)-- not a community which we can neatly define without killing it. But there is something (life itself?) which attracts us to each other and is expressed in our dancing. Country dancing helps us provide a focus to enhance affection, respect, or at least patience; and we can do this physically and musically!!! Berni and I would we could be with you at your next dance. And may I tell you that last night we introduced 20 new couples (40 people), parents who have taken leadership in homeschooling in various St Louis districts, to country dance with great success. And last Monday we had 70 individuals of all ages from home school families in South St Louis litterally having a ball. You may want to make contact with home school groups in your communities; they might be as receptive to country dance as a family activity as we are finding right around us. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 08:35:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:35:28 -0500 (EST) From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: April 4th Spring Fling in Woodstock NY [long] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802211635.LAA29627-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Sharon, I would have loved to join you in Woodstock but have to speak in Indianapolis that weekend. Wouldn't you rather be in Indianapolis!? Best, Danny ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:14:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:14:02 -0500 (EST) From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The geometry of social dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802211714.MAA19075-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" John, Here's a dose of class analysis to go with Saturday morning brunch. I like your point, though I (as a labor historian in my 'real' life) and many nineteenth-century working people would have trouble with the representation of the industrial revolution as "a great surge of freedom." An emergent bourgeoisie may have done so, and that probably bespeaks the changing class composition of ECD from the 15th to 19th centuries. The latter point may be a way for Alan Winston to develop his brief account of Sharp's influence (Alan's history I otherwise thought to be a comprehensive and very useful intro.). Part of the enthusiasm and spread of ECD and folk dance in the revival was tied to its use in school (mandated, especially after the Alien Act in England in 1905) and settlement houses and kindergarten movement in both the US and England as a way of instilling patriotic, national spirit among immigrants. Danny u >>From John Ramsay in St Louis. . . > >Dance reflects society. Here is a simplistic overview to make a point. . . > >Sellengers Round, Gathering Peascods, Pepper's Black, Kentucky Running Set >etc. reflect a communal CIRCLE, perhaps as ancient as Stonehenge. When >country dances moved into the manor houses (17th century), the circle broke >and became a longways LINE to match the configuration of the great halls and a >hierarchical, feudal, social structure with its head and foot. In the >industrial revolution a great surge of freedom washed upon the industrialized >countries and PAIRS of dancers (1830's) broke loose from the confines of >communal dance (Curt Sachs calls it choral dance) and began dashing around the >floor in a whole series of couple dances: the waltz, polka, mazurka, lindy, >fox trot, jitterbug, etc. With the technological revolution in our lifetime, >society said "Do your own thing" and dancers responded by becoming solo POINTS >on the floor in the Twist, etc.. > >Country dancers have chosen to rebuild a sense of community thru dance. We >realize that society cannot exist if each person does their own thing and we >also realize that a completely rigid social structure is inhuman. > >The American Bill of Rights is a splendid document and tries to legislate >certain rights. But is also a reflection of the inequities of its day. It >talks about individual rights: I must have free speech, I must have freedom >to worship, I must have a free press. But this is only half of human living. >Freedom is a condition of society, not a matter of individual rights; it can >only be created jointly. Freedom requires us to listen as well as to speak >up, to tolerate divergent views as well as to hold to our own deepest beliefs, >to seriously read what others say as well as to express ourselves in print >with civility. > >THEREFORE: I am delighted with the recent exchanges via this network. I see >a community of individuals speaking up, listening, dialoging, and exhibiting >all the attributes of a healthy human society. It is a bit messy (I would >prefer to call it VIBRANT)-- not a community which we can neatly define >without killing it. But there is something (life itself?) which attracts us >to each other and is expressed in our dancing. Country dancing helps us >provide a focus to enhance affection, respect, or at least patience; and we >can do this physically and musically!!! Berni and I would we could be with >you at your next dance. > >And may I tell you that last night we introduced 20 new couples (40 people), >parents who have taken leadership in homeschooling in various St Louis >districts, to country dance with great success. And last Monday we had 70 >individuals of all ages from home school families in South St Louis litterally >having a ball. You may want to make contact with home school groups in your >communities; they might be as receptive to country dance as a family activity >as we are finding right around us. > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:19:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:19:29 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: April 4th Spring Fling in Woodstock NY [long] To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802211719.MAA13953-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:35 AM 2/21/98 -0500, you wrote: > I would have loved to join you in Woodstock but have to speak in >Indianapolis that weekend. Wouldn't you rather be in Indianapolis!? Dear Danny, Indianapolis has its appeal, but... And at Woodstock I'll get to dance! See you Tuesday-- Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:26:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:26:11 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802211726.MAA14636-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sorry, guys-- I didn't notice that Danny'd sent his note to the whole list and not just to me, so I wound up compounding the error. Write 100 times on the blackboard: I will ALWAYS check the From: line on my E-mail before hitting Control R on my keyboard. Cheers, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:30:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:30:14 -0500 (EST) From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Oops To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802211930.OAA00347-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ditto. D. >Sorry, guys-- > >I didn't notice that Danny'd sent his note to the whole list and not just to >me, so I wound up compounding the error. > >Write 100 times on the blackboard: > >I will ALWAYS check the From: line on my E-mail before hitting Control R on >my keyboard. > >Cheers, >Sharon > > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:17:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:09:19 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers and bouncers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980221210919.27601.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Sharon Green wrote: > Actually, JB, when I say "Think of others' pleasure," I'm talking about > being alive to the people around you--and that includes joining in ranting > with Alan Winston on heys, or setting very bouncily back to Barbara Ruth Sharon, I'm flattered and delighted to find myself on your list of special dance responses. I do have to admit, without being too immodest I hope, that for setting bouncily I'm hard to compete with . . . My footwork's not too shabby either. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:25:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:20:56 -0500 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: April 4th Spring Fling in Woodstock NY [long] To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199802211721_MC2-342D-17C7-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Sharon: Sorry to send this to you through the ECD list but it didn't make it with= your adress. My wife and I will be attending a "Scottish weekend in the Highlands (the= Catskills) the first weekend in April and the Greenbsuh dance would fit i= n very nicely on our return route to Vermont. Any information (program, if there is one, etc) that you can send would be appreciated. Have gotten a map off Yahoo and since I went to college in Troy am resonably familiar with the area (my first square dance experioence was i= n this general area-in 1949 if you please). Look forward to seeing you then= =2E Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:55:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 17:54:37 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worser and worser To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Reading list of qualities that make good dancers... Reminds me of contests >to create the World's Worst Contra (or Country) Dance. I always thought >that had great potential. Actually Penn Fixx once taught the world's worst contra dance, which he composed himself for a class where he was trying out new dances. At the beginning of the hour he taught one or two really interesting dances he was working on, and asked for feedback-- there was one place where the move works smoothly for the man but was awkward for the woman, and another where there was too much time and something needed to be added, but the dances were basically interesting, inovative and successful, and Penn was able to take the ideas and work out how to Fixx them to be smoother. Then came a dance that had NO redeeming qualities-- it had every glitch known to contra dancing-- awkward changes of direction, the use of the same hand twice in a row, so that you can't disentangle your arm from behind your partner's back in order to give to to someone else in time for the next figure. People were so frustrated that they were actually getting mad at each other on the dance floor, because they couldn't dance it smoothly and the dance choreography prevented the people they were tring to dance with from ever being on time or in the right place, or holding out the correct hand to them. My partner figured out what was happening right away, which is that Penn wrote it this way on purpose so that people could see what a good dance isn't, and therefore appreciate what a good dance IS when they meet one! I think he just didn't want us taking him for granted when he composed something that flowed well. Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:09:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bestockp-AT- oz.net cites a "worst possible" contra by Penn Fixx. I think it'd be a wonderful thing if said dance were made widely available and even practiced. And what would be the World's Worst Playford dance -- let's say, not a "20th century composed Playford," but from the original publications. No mere chestnuts, please. Let's have an awful dance. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 13:29:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:34:31 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Woofers, Tweeters & Screaming Yellow Zonkers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd3e79$9f2af740$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Of course I'm dancing for my >pleasure, but very central to that pleasure is the joy of sharing my >pleasure with others and giving them pleasure by being there for them, not >simply passively but actively. If you think I'm dancing out of a sense of >duty, think again. > >Cheers, >Sharon Green (who calls for all sorts of messy dances) delighted to hear it. I see far too many people on the floor with a martyred expression. These come from both ends of the experience spectrum. Martin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:30:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:30:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > Bestockp-AT- oz.net cites a "worst possible" contra by Penn Fixx. I think it'd > be a wonderful thing if said dance were made widely available and even > practiced. > > And what would be the World's Worst Playford dance -- let's say, not a > "20th century composed Playford," but from the original publications. I'd like to suggest a candidate: Cupid's Garden. It's a long, tedious dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach and a lot of concentration, but ultimately isn't worth the effort. The tune isn't particularly memorable, either. (I have a candidate for "worst 20th century Playford dance" also, but will hold off on mentioning it for now.) Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:19:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:18:19 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Howl, yips, and regional variation To: "ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F0F880.7F94-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In messages private and public, people have pointed out that there is regional variation in the amount of vocal feedback that callers and musicians expect and enjoy -- especially that some southern U.S. callers (contra?) wonder what's wrong and encourage dancers to holler if they don't hear much. Having occasionally called in cities were people are more reserved that Michiganders, I understand that sense of "I can't believe you're not thrilled!" that really means, "I'm not hearing the kind of floor noise I'm used to hearing." The other point that I really like is that things which start out as "individual expression" can be assimilated until they are now part of the dance. A while back, someone discovered a quick, easy hambone style clapping thing that could, just barely, fit into those two beats in Petronella. I have to say, it was *FUN* to watch the person who discovered it enjoy his new move. However, pretty soon I saw someone "teaching" a new dancer how to do Petronella. The spin had just about vanished; the teaching focused entirely on how to do this hambone thing. Lest we think this is just a contra-dancers thing, how many times have you seen someone go bonkers if a person doesn't tell the 1M to do that little turn-out loop on Jack's Maggot? The frills can become the entire content of the dance, in some people's minds. ELB -------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / Ann Arbor MI -------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:40:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:27:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > And what would be the World's Worst Playford dance -- let's say, not a > "20th century composed Playford," but from the original publications. > > No mere chestnuts, please. Let's have an awful dance. Well, about a year ago, the band requested "Mall Peatly" because it was such a neat tune. The general consensus of the dancers and callers was that the dance was a real stinker, and the tune deserved to have a better dance written for it. I can't comment, having been seated in the band, but the dancers sure looked unhappy. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:25:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 01:13:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Dawn Culbertson wrote: > I'd like to suggest a candidate: Cupid's Garden. It's a long, tedious > dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time > signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach > and a lot of concentration, but ultimately isn't worth the effort. The > tune isn't particularly memorable, either. (I have a candidate for "worst > 20th century Playford dance" also, but will hold off on mentioning it for > now.) I'm sorry to hear that; I've always liked playing the tune, ever since hearing Dave Swarbrick do it ten years ago. Oh well, maybe it's one to save for listening gigs, rather than dancing gigs. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:20:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:19:50 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'd like to suggest a candidate: Cupid's Garden. It's a long, tedious >dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time >signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach >and a lot of concentration, but ultimately isn't worth the effort. Oh no! I LIKE Cupid's Garden! and here I was going to vote for something like Parson's Farewell - and not even mention the expression that I believe a certain other MARY on this list told me about similar dances. Mary Beth <-- dashing off for cover in duple and triple time steps ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:13:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:10:27 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: The geometry of social dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980223081027.7029-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> John: Don't forget that early couple dance, a form of competition, the minuet. Forbes and co. 8-)> ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:24:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:23:50 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: hanswurst and feetzwurst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well this is exciting! Already a couple of candidates for Worst Ever Playford. Why not have a "Worst" Ball? I'd definitely ante up for a grueling evening.... Maybe not just Playford but all aspects of related country, contra, squares, barn dances... A general Ball from Hell. Or a class or something. How will we know what's Good if we don't experience what's Bad? Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 07:41:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:41:12 -0500 From: Maryn McKenna Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" mary beth goodman wrote: >> here I was going to vote for something >like Parson's Farewell ditto from the southern bureau. the *goofiest* dance... maryn mckenna atlanta ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:06:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:06:22 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802231606.LAA16060-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:41 AM 2/23/98 -0500, Maryn McKenna wrote: >mary beth goodman wrote: >>> here I was going to vote for something >>like Parson's Farewell > >ditto from the southern bureau. the *goofiest* dance... I shared Mary Beth & Maryn's opinion until, sitting out Parson's at one Germantown Ball, I saw Scott Higgs, unable to get a set together in time, start dancing the dance by himself. And he danced it so exuberantly and with such delight that before the nodding sequence was over Rich Baker had joined him, and soon after two women joined in to complete the set. It was exhilarating to see the fun the four of them had. Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:07:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:07:29 +0100 ("MET) From: Tom Goodale Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Maryn McKenna wrote: > mary beth goodman wrote: > >> here I was going to vote for something > >like Parson's Farewell > > ditto from the southern bureau. the *goofiest* dance... > > maryn mckenna > atlanta > > but I _like_ Parson's Farewell 8-) Tom ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:18:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: Peter.Fricke-AT- noaa.gov Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:19:06 -0500 From: Peter Fricke Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: hanswurst and feetzwurst To: sdc16-AT- columbia.edu (IPM Return requested), ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (IPM Return requested) Message-ID: <016CA34F1A17A010*/c=US/admd=ATTMAIL/prmd=GOV+NOAA/o=CCNMFS/s=Fricke/g=Peter/-AT- MHS> We would probably enjoy doing the "bad" anyway; the worst case is *no* dancing, IMHO ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:22:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:19:03 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: hanswurst and feetzwurst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980223101903.654f-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> For those who have access, take a look at a dance called "Sir Foplin's Airs" or something that affect. The dance starts by taking a pinch of snuff, as I recall, and then suggests you offer the same to your partner. For every round of the dance, that would be something! I write this not having looked at "SFA" for years, so accuracy may not be complete, here. "Never Love Thee More," when taken at a dirge tempo (as I first learned it) doesn't provide much in the way of aesthetic return. Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:49:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:48:39 -0500 From: swartell-AT- cas.org (Sue Wartell (swartell-AT- cas.org, ext. 3387)) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re(2): worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9802231148.AA23825-AT- cas.org> But I LIKE Parson's Farewell! (Although I don't think I would care to _teach_ it to a large group.) Sue Wartell Columbus, OH ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:25:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:24:43 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <7162fbd8.34f1b0dd-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/98 4:09:35 PM, Tom Goodale wrote: < mary beth goodman wrote: > >> here I was going to vote for something > >like Parson's Farewell > > ditto from the southern bureau. the *goofiest* dance... > > maryn mckenna > atlanta > > but I _like_ Parson's Farewell 8-) Tom >> But surely no one actually likes Argeers. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:10:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:01:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: hanswurst and feetzwurst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > Why not have a "Worst" Ball? I'd definitely ante up for a grueling > evening.... Maybe not just > Playford but all aspects of related country, contra, squares, barn > dances... A general Ball from Hell. > > Or a class or something. How will we know what's Good if we don't > experience what's Bad? In the contra world, dance camps and callers' workshops occasionally feature a "bad contra" contest. It's amazing what gets dreamed up for these. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:44:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:44:48 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 CF1125-AT- aol.com wrote: > But surely no one actually likes Argeers. ??? -- What, pray tell, makes you so sure? Do you find the dance fatally flawed? If not, what other reasons might give you such assurance? I have a very hard time believing that no one (not counting myself) actually likes Argeers. I find this a peculiar thread -- as if to seek justification for our own pet dislikes through consensus. What would be the politically correct way to respond to a dance Officially Designated as Dorky (ODD) 1) as a dancer; and 2) as a caller? Should dancers frown, look martyred, refuse to dance it, goof off to liven it up and make it (barely) acceptable or simply to survive? Should callers destroy their copies of the dance, refuse ever to call it even if requested, badmouth it so no one wants ever to try it, use it occasionally as a moral example of what will happen if you don't stick to Quality-Designated Dances (QDD), use it as punishment for dancers who don't Get Things Right where they Should Know Better, or re-interpret it to make it Suitable for Modern Dancers? Or would the correct response be to make a select list of such dances from which to draw the focus of one's teaching effort, showing how the choreographic "flaws" really are delightful little "features" to be enjoyed by those dancers with enough sophistication to see how they really enhance the dance? The mind begins to boggle, or reel . . . Eric Arnold Ann Arbor > > Carl Friedman > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:05:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:59:24 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980223135924.7229-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> I like "Argeers," especially the 'hook.' Texas dancers should like it for that reason too? Forbes and counting ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:29:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:28:12 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <92c0e63c.34f1dbdf-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/98 6:57:08 PM, you wrote: <<> But surely no one actually likes Argeers. ??? -- What, pray tell, makes you so sure? Do you find the dance fatally flawed? If not, what other reasons might give you such assurance? I have a very hard time believing that no one (not counting myself) actually likes Argeers. I find this a peculiar thread -- as if to seek justification for our own pet dislikes through consensus. >> I find this thread rather humorous. I hope no one is taking it very seriously. Obviously my least favorite dance may be your all-time favorite. I happen to love Parson's Farewell, and think Cupid's Garden a nice dance though not worth the extraordinary amount of time required to learn it. Argeers came quickly to mind as a dance with three (or six, depending on how you look at it) totally unrelated parts, a mediocre tune, and no obvious redeeming qualities, which takes forever to learn well, and 90 seconds to dance. In posting the above, I had no doubt that it would be someone's favorite. Of course I would never have done Argeers had someone not thought it was worth learning - in this case, Jim Morrison, who taught it (repeatedly) at a dance week one summer. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:33:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:32:54 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802232032.PAA07997-AT- sca.UWaterloo.CA> Content-Type: text > dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time > signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach Awwww. Some of those dances are fun. I'm thinking more along the lines of 15C Italian. ie spetz, spetz, treb, treb, treb, reverse it and riverence (riprse?) left and right. or translated: diagional step left and right, 3 fast foot alterations, 2 alternating diagional steps backwards, 3 fast trebs and a slow "set left & right" (kind of like that if you translate to EC dancing) followed by a really slow reverence. Other dances alternate 4/4 and 3/4 or 3 steps in 5 (?) beats. It can work wonderfully. At times it can show that you control your body (ie going fast to slow and back ...) etc. Yes they are hard to teach to someone who has only done EC dancing. But the dances can be a lot of fun. They have a style and flow all their own. Unfortunately we find that the specific Italian words get washed down to EC dance terms in an attempt to simplify the dances. That kind of works. I always find it an interesting switch going from contra dance, where people know the figures, to SCA dancing where few people know the figures and everything has to be taught. I wonder just how much easier the danceing would be if people know the figures and the dances were called. Then there are zweifache (sp?) dances which alternate between 2 time signatures. Usually the time switch is clear and, if you have an ear for timing, easy to predict. Again, a lot of fun. Then there are the variety of 2 and 3 step dances that I ran across at an Olde Tyme Square Dance group. They'll be doing some sort of travelling 2 couple dance alternated with a 2 step dance figure for traveling around the floor to find the next couple you dance with. The group that does those formed 25+ years ago and that was when those dances were popular. - Eric http://sca.uwaterloo.ca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:46:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:28:07 -0600 From: lstout-AT- sun.iwu.edu (Larry Stout) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802232028.OAA07807-AT- goedel.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm not sure I'd nominate it for worst, but "Upon a Summer's Day" is rather boring when done on dry land. It is a hit at our summer pool party, though, when diving under arches becomes just that. Obviously, conditions under which you do a dance have an effect on its acceptability. As I recall, "Drive the Cold Winter Away", is a so-so dance with a wonderful tune-- perhaps we should start a thread for tunes in need of lovely dances. I'll nominate the tune "Watkins' Ale" from the Baltimore Consort CD of the same name. Larry Stout ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:03:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:58:20 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980223145820.7229-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> In other words, Hey, folk, don't do my thinking/deciding for me. Thank you very much! Forbes and going ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:14:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:13:22 -0500 (EST) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Revised version of history article [_LONG_]; comment still sought To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <96fa682.34f1e674-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- winston-AT- SLAC.Stanford.EDU; therefore the message is being sent to the entire list in order to reach Alan Winston. Others may be interested anyway! ----- Original message follows ----- Alan, In a message dated 2/20/98 9:02:14 PM, you wrote: <> Normally, "set running" was danced to music, even at Pine Mountain. It so happened that there was no musical instrument used at Pine Mountain the first time Sharp saw the dance; perhaps a musician was not available that moonlit night but the Pine Mountain staff, in their eagerness to show the dance to Sharp, presented it anyway. My source concerning "set running" was Marguerite Butler Bidstrup who was one of the dancers that magical night. << He collected other dances.>> I am curious about the "other" American dances you mention that Sharp collected. <> You may be interested in the following link between Lloyd Shaw and English country dance-- University of Kentucky Historian, Carl Clark, once told me that Lloyd Shaw confided to Carl at a Convention in Chicago that he, Shaw, was inspired to use folk dance in his school, after observing the work of Frank Smith, a skilled country dance leader at Berea College who accompanied his students into their home communities in the Appalachians to learn their dances in their native setting. Smith was following the example set by Cecil Sharp. Thanks for your article designed for introducing the general public to country dancing. It is a good contribution to the promotion of country dancing. John Ramsay in St Louis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:20:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:18:40 -0500 From: Benjamin Stein Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199802231619_MC2-3466-470D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Unfortunately it is all subjective. I too like Parson's Farewell. I would= be hard put to state which is a "worst" dance in Playford. I fully agree that the worst dancing is "no dancing". Ben Stein Burlington, Vt. USA Dancers-AT- Compuserve.Com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:00:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:59:59 -0800 From: Allen and Alisa Dodson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: worser and worser To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" (this is Allen speaking, not Alisa!) As an occasional ECD dancer and musician, I find the least enjoyable dances are those which are completely nondescript. They're *bad* inasmuch as they aren't memorable and have no redeeming features to recommend their being done again. Of course, that also tends to mean I can't remember their names!! I am glad other people have come to the defense of Cupid's Garden, which was on our Playford Ball program last year. When taught well it doesn't take all that long, and I rather enjoy the change of meter in the tune. (Also, it is from the 'Maggot Pie' collection, published in 1931 and consisting of recently-composed dances, so it doesn't fit the 'Playford-era' requirement). My own favorite "bad dance" is "She that Washes A Monday" (Neal collection, 1726, in the Jackson and Fogg 'red book'). I would suggest its inclusion on a program of 'bad dances' because: (1) the timing is difficult, if not impossible; when it was called at the San Jose dance a room full of experienced dancers couldn't get it right (2) the first couple does almost all the work; their part is rather like being put through an old-fashioned clothes wringer while the twos mostly stand around (3) the tune is a 9/8 slip jig which sounds remarkably like all other 9/8 slip jigs, and (at least when we tried it) we couldn't figure out what the appropriate tempo should be. We tried three or four, each of which worked well for one part of the dance but not another. (4) having said all that, it was hilarious! I'd like to try it again! which is something I rather like from any dance, even a bad one. Allen Dodson (who likes Upon A Summer's Day, and finds Dublin Bay awful!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:57:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:55:34 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worser and worser To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3f5efdf8.34f1fe9c-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/23/98 5:13:57 PM, you wrote: <> Excellent point. Reminds me of one of my least favorite dances: Mount Hills. Totally generic dance and tune. Apologies to those whose lives it has enriched. And, again, please don't take this thread too seriously. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:06:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:00:24 -0500 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802231805_MC2-346E-2B1D-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Dawn Culbertson wrote: >I'd like to suggest a candidate: Cupid's Garden. It's a long, tedious >dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time >signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach >and a lot of concentration, but ultimately isn't worth the effort. The >tune isn't particularly memorable, either. (I have a candidate for "worst >20th century Playford dance" also, but will hold off on mentioning it for >now.) I'm amazed! I think Cupid's Garden is a wonderful dance! And I love the tune, and I love the four bars where it shifts from three-time to four-time, and I think it's very clever ("neat", you would say in American) that this is the point, part-way through each of the three figures, where you get the standard introductions of forward a double and back, siding and arming. It's one of the few dances where I still use Cecil Sharp siding, since it's so obviously designed to work that way. I think the whole dance is fitted together beautifully. Yes, it is hard to call - but for me it's certainly well worth the effort. As I've mentioned before, there is a much higher proportion of longways dances in the States than you would find in England, and possibly one reason is that the ratio of dancing to teaching is much higher - there's usually only one figure to learn, and you can then dance it lots of times. Cupid's Garden has three complicated figures, and you dance them once each. Maybe I wouldn't want a whole evening calling (or dancing) things that complicated, but it's still one of my favourite dances. By the way, it IS a 20th century dance - it's by Marjorie Heffer and William Porter, published in Maggot Pie in 1932, though the tune is probably a lot older. I'm interested in hearing what Dawn's candidate for "worst 20th century Playford dance" is - bet it's one of mine! Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:15:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:09:26 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Stephen D Corrsin Message-ID: <0009748B.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As for contras, I think it was Dan Pearl who composed the dance that goes, "In lines of four go down the hall, go down the hall, go down the hall..." I imagine that at its peak, Playford-era ECD was analogous to contra dancing of the last 20 years, during which time untold thousands of contras have been composed (at least half of which start, hands 4, 1's cross over, balance & swing your neighbor, circle 3/4 and swing your partner.) I'm sure that in the Playford era the same thing happened, many dances were composed that were very similar to each other, and many that weren't very good. So the worst ones have not survived, for which we can be glad. I have not not done any research myself, but I've heard that each succeeding edition of Playford's dance manual deleted some dances from the previous and added some new ones. There must be some turkeys in the earliest editions that someone could cite. I don't remember how they go, but I have negative associations in my mind to the dances Dargason and The Installation. Marty Fager ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: worst of all Bestockp-AT- oz.net cites a "worst possible" contra by Penn Fixx. I think it'd be a wonderful thing if said dance were made widely available and even practiced. And what would be the World's Worst Playford dance -- let's say, not a "20th century composed Playford," but from the original publications. No mere chestnuts, please. Let's have an awful dance. Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:26:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:26:26 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Argeers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One can't like Argeers until one sees Helene and Arthur dance it. Then one can't help but like it. My worst dances are all the longways that have six interchangble parts and no distinctive figure. They are so boring that I can't even remember their names. I think, even among those dances, that the ones which have just some quirky thing, something that makes them different from all the others, (I call it a "hook" in honor of the pop music style) there are acceptable ones for certain types of events. But they have to have good music or some distinctive figure. Personally my worst is Easter Thursday, which spoils a wondrous melody with a most mundane sequence of figures which don't even belong to the tune to begin with, and then don't fit it to boot. A program of mistake dances with Easter Thursday on it would be slightly tolerable, however. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:23:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:23:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Oops! I didn't realize Cupid's Garden was a 20th century dance. Mea culpa. One Playford dance that seems mediocre to me, if not actually bad, is Orleans Baffled. Both the moves & the tune seem rather boring to me. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 00:31:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:31:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Eric Praetzel wrote: > > > dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time > > signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach > > Awwww. Some of those dances are fun. I'm thinking more along the lines > of 15C Italian. Actually, I'm very fond of 15th (& 16th) century Italian dances. I think what bothered me about Cupid's Garden was that, IMHO, the shift in time signature seems superfluous and doesn't really do anything for the dance. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:40:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:23:23 +0000 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <888312392.2011235.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> Dawn Culbertson wrote: > > And what would be the World's Worst Playford dance -- let's say, not a > > "20th century composed Playford," but from the original publications. > > I'd like to suggest a candidate: Cupid's Garden. It's a long, tedious > dance with all sorts of weird quirks - among other things, the time > signature shifts between duple & triple - that takes forever to teach > and a lot of concentration, but ultimately isn't worth the effort. The > tune isn't particularly memorable, either. (I have a candidate for "worst > 20th century Playford dance" also, but will hold off on mentioning it for > now.) I'm at work so I haven't got my dance books with me but I seem to recall that Cupid's Garden is out of Maggot Pie and therefore 20th century in origin. I don't think it's that bad a dance, I've called it at workshops a couple of times and I think the payoff is just about enough to justify doing it very occasionally. As for my candidates for worst ever playford dance, I'm afraid that Newcastle is pretty high on the list for me. I fully accept that I'm out on a very long limb with this one and am preparing to receive bucket loads of hate email on the subject :-) I don't know what it is about Newcastle but it just doesn't do anything for me, the tune is ordinary (to my way of thinking), the dance is fussy. I feel better now, sort of like a confessional really - maybe I should set up a support group for people who don't like Newcastle. Dargason would also be on my least favourite list. Perhaps we could come up with some other categories: Best tune / worst dance combination: Goddesses Most underrated / underdone dance: The Alderman's Hat ( I know of only 3 callers in England doing "The Alderman's Hat" and we all learnt it from the same person at Manchester University in the mid 80s. I love it, it's got a tune the band can really get their teeth into.) Dance most likely to have been written in the 20th century as a ceilidh dance and accidentally fallen through a time warp so ending up in Playford's collection: Black Nag (This dance is currently working its way into the ceilidh repertoire over here. Usually done 3 or 4 times without stopping) Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:54:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:54:31 +0100 ("MET) From: Tom Goodale Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk wrote: > > Dargason would also be on my least favourite list. Perhaps we could > come up with some other categories: > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk I've never thought Dargason was that bad, but most people I talk to seem to hate it. I've not danced it for about five years 'though. I guess it might fall into the catagory of 'disliked by the most people' 8-) Tom ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:41:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:45:19 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F2C0DF.2C99-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199802231805_MC2-346E-2B1D-AT- compuserve.com> I fully agree with Colin. Cupid's Graden is a wonderful dance well worth learning. Once you have mastered it, it stays in your head, because it is well constructed. True, it is not for direct consumption. Argeers is much worse ... Try "Our Cheers", dance by Gary Roodman to this peppy tune. Much better! Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:09:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 11:09:35 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >One Playford dance that seems mediocre to me, if not actually bad, is >Orleans Baffled. Both the moves & the tune seem rather boring to me. > >Dawn Culbertson >dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu you must be pulling our legs! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:48:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:48:47 -0800 From: Allen and Alisa Dodson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sounds like we need a support group for people who dislike Orleans Baffled. You can count me in as regards the duple minor version. How about a category for bad dances with confusing titles? I would nominate Bar A Bar, which I find to be rather useless. Allen ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:54:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 03:51:31 -0600 From: Charlene Charette Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <34F29822.961C3280-AT- flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199802232028.OAA07807-AT- goedel.iwu.edu> Larry Stout wrote: > I'm not sure I'd nominate it for worst, but "Upon a Summer's Day" is rather > boring when done on dry land. It is a hit at our summer pool party, though, > Try it to Sousa's "Stars and Stripes Forever." Some of the male military types thought the original tune sounded "march-y" and it was close to the 4th of July... Let's just say a new tradition was launched . --Charlene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:18:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:18:17 -0800 From: Bruce Hamilton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Best/Worst Dances, and Back Through the Ceiling To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802241818.AA073274297-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> What a great thread! Enough to shake me out of lurking for a few minutes (how DO you all find the time to write as much as you do?). Argeers: "...a mediocre tune..." Well, of course the tune is MY favorite part -- vive la difference. And I like Cupid's Garden, while wishing it were easier to teach and that it had an actual ending. In the hands of a good band, the chords for Upon A Summer's Day can be absolutely delicious. I've never been wild about the dance's choreography, but there are real possibilities in the *dancing* of it. In my "Through the Ceiling" class last summer I taught the dance, set the dancers some teamwork challenges and turned them loose. I saw several wide eyes and some pleased grins. By the way... --------------------**Shameless Plug Follows**--------------------- I'll be teaching "Through the Ceiling" again this summer at Pinewoods English Week, Aug 22-29. For those who missed the discussion here, it's intended for people whose own improvement in dancing has hit a ceiling. We explore many directions for resuming your growth, some having to do with the use of your body, some social, and some spiritual. I'll show you some habits you may have and want to drop, and some you may want to acquire. I'll show you things to be aware of, and suggest ways to be more actively aware of them. It's all illustrated with simple dances, so you can really focus on the subject at hand. (I think our most electric moments came in Hole in the Wall! Those who were there may or may not agree). Definitely a workshop -- not a dance party with style points thrown in. --------------------**End of Shameless Plug**--------------------- The "Bad Contra Contest" has been run several times, and has yielded some important refinements in bad choreography. The first year the dances were merely boring, then they grew to awkward, and now they have moved beyond that. I'm reporting second-hand, but as I under- stand it, the last year or two has brought parodies (like Dan's Down The Middle, or swing your neighbor for 30 bars and pass thru), and dances that look good on paper but generate nausea or anger. I think in one the dancers actually sat down! While I can't suggest any particular dances for the Bad Playford Ball (well, "Round O" does come to mind), we shouldn't be satisfied with the merely boring -- I say we learn from our predecessors and go for the truly virulent. Bruce Hamilton Hewlett-Packard Laboratories MS-4AD Phone 650-857-2818 PO Box 10150, Palo Alto, CA 94303-0889 Fax 650-852-8092 bruce_hamilton-AT- hpl.hp.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:37:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:37:42 -0800 From: Bruce Hamilton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Bad Playford, cont. To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802241837.AA073815462-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> Darn! Now I can't get the Bad Playford Party out of my head. Shall we have Bad Hemmingway program notes? A quotation from William McGonnagal on the inside front cover? "Bad taste attire recommended"? The program chosen so the dances make a descending chromatic scale? A Bad Taste potluck afterwards? Bruce Hamilton Hewlett-Packard Laboratories MS-4AD Phone 650-857-2818 PO Box 10150, Palo Alto, CA 94303-0889 Fax 650-852-8092 bruce_hamilton-AT- hpl.hp.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:19:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:42:41 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd409b$95e89c40$d4fe1ecb-AT- default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Oh no! I LIKE Cupid's Garden! and here I was going to vote for something >like Parson's Farewell - and not even mention the expression that I believe >a certain other MARY on this list told me about similar dances. > >Mary Beth <-- dashing off for cover in duple and triple time steps What's wrong with the Safe Sex dance?! :) Parson's Fairwell gained this name here (australia) when a local caller slipped in the nodding section of the dance - "partner, same sex, opposite" should have been the call! I was in a suddenly silly band at the time. Martin - who'se pet hate is whirlygig to woodCock (basically because the tune part list looks like a formula for compound interest!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:40:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:29:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Bad Playford, cont. To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Bruce Hamilton wrote: > Darn! Now I can't get the Bad Playford Party out of my head. Shall > we have Bad Hemmingway program notes? A quotation from William > McGonnagal on the inside front cover? "Bad taste attire recommended"? > The program chosen so the dances make a descending chromatic scale? A > Bad Taste potluck afterwards? Oh no -- not Tomato-Marshmallow Surprise *again*! Urp. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:32:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:31:23 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Flavors of English Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Alan wrote [major snipping]: >Mazel Tov! Thank you. And thanks for your wonderful response. >What wasn't clear to me about that "Dances of the English Regency" class >was what kind of Regency dance they were teaching. In an email to me you >mentioned that the setting seemed to be more restrained than CDSS English; >this leads me to suspect that what they were teaching was Friends of the >English Regency dance, as invented by John Hertz some 25 years ago and >promulgated by him and others (including me) since, although my interests have >shifted in two different directions since -- toward Sharp-style English and >toward scrupulously-reconstructed period dance, although I'm not particularly >good at the latter. Oy, it's worse than I thought--there's a Baskin-Robbins of Playford Dance flavors: However they do it in England (how many flavors is that?) CDSS-style John Hertz Regency style Historical Regency style RenFair Society for Creative Anachronism How many have I left out? Well, let me propose one new flavor: Santa Barbara style Our style is the style of the next (Playford-oriented) Ball or festival or camp or assembly we're planning on attending. The Regency style of the class was definitely the John Hertz variety since the instructor mentioned him and even invited him to our last class. (He sent his regrets.) >(If you're interested in John-style Regency dance, you should come to the >Annual Assembly of the Friends of the English Regency, at the Clarion Hotel in >Millbrae, 3/27-3/29. http://www.regencyfriends.org for details; John will >teach extensively. Yes, that is the same weekend as the BACDS Playford Ball. >Kill me.) This could be a problem for the Santa Barbara Style. Some of us will want to prepare for the Playford Ball and others for the Assembly. Or we'll do both, ditching the Assembly on the day of the Ball. Do the two events fall on the same weekend every year? >Do Santa Barbara contradancers have the anti-English feeling seen elsewhere? >Do you have obstacles to overcome? (I'd heard that Charlie Fenton called a >well-received English session at the Sprung Floor Festival last year.) Do you >have organizational support, or are you on your own? Many SB CDers will say "I don't like it." I tell them I used to not like it (true) and perhaps express what's so great about it for me. I will teach one English dance every time I call a contra evening, if the band can accomodate. Doing so is certainly within my perogative. Perhaps I will ask our new scheduler to try to match me with such bands starting with the next quarter. >Are these interested people, or some significant portion of them, willing >to be >on a dance committee and do actual work? Involve them as soon as feasible in >hall search, recruitment, and general organization. If it ends up being >Gary's >dance, it will drive you nuts pretty quickly. This will not be my dance. The people most interested in doing organizational work so far are myself, the instructor Kathy Lear, John Payatt, and Carey Cates of SCA. Three or four of us are going to meet and discuss logistics as well as "vision." Anna Quinn (formerly Nancy Bourgeois) says she could teach sometimes. She lead ECD here several years ago. (I went once or twice and wasn't hooked. Who knows why?) I've already started a mailing/phoning/emailing list. Carey says she could teach some dances. I suppose I could do a little too. Contra caller extraordinaire James Hutson is teaching ECD now in L.A. He might be willing to lead an English dance or two at a contra, but when up here he tends to work with the Growling Old Geezers, a strictly Southern band. >If you're on your own, consider signing up as a CDSS affiliate. It's not very >expensive and gives you access to various benefits, including listings in the >group directory and inexpensive insurance, which is helpful with halls. If we go that route, we might be able to become part of the SBCDS. That's up in the air. Carey is trying to get a space at UCSB via the SCA chapter...they can get a space for free I believe. I think on campus would be great. (I could tell students all about contra dancing, too!) -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. Or, if you must, eat dessert on your way to the dance. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:40:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:40:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Flavors of English Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITYLT11V529AMQDZ-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Gary wrote: Oy, it's worse than I thought--there's a Baskin-Robbins of Playford Dance flavors: However they do it in England (how many flavors is that?) CDSS-style John Hertz Regency style Historical Regency style RenFair Society for Creative Anachronism I think SCA dance style depends very heavily on the area and the interest and knowledge of the local instructor. (Playford dances done by people who have been working seriously on Italian Renaissance dance will, I suspect, tend to look different from that done by people who start and end with ECD.) So you might have 31 flavors of SCA dance alone. How many have I left out? Well, let me propose one new flavor: Santa Barbara style Our style is the style of the next (Playford-oriented) Ball or festival or camp or assembly we're planning on attending. This will definitely drive you mad, and also runs the risk of making the dance group of interest only to those who are willing/eager to go to out of town events, rather than being a fun thing in itself. First, there are some arbitrary differences that will tend to mess you up. (JH-Regency does corner crossings with a "stay on the side of the set you started on" rule, which means first corners cross left shoulder, second corners cross right shoulder, vs the right-shoulder default of ECD.) If a dance series keeps changing such basic stuff back and forth, it will confuse regulars as well as newcomers. If the ground rules keep changing, nobody can get comfortable. I would strongly suggest CDSS-style. People interested in JH-Regency can fairly readily adjust when doing that style; those wanting to do hyper-cranked RenFaire stuff can crank it up -- at least the floor patterns are the same. This also increases your compatibility with visiting callers. The Regency style of the class was definitely the John Hertz variety since the instructor mentioned him and even invited him to our last class. (He sent his regrets.) >(If you're interested in John-style Regency dance, you should come to the >Annual Assembly of the Friends of the English Regency, at the Clarion Hotel in >Millbrae, 3/27-3/29. http://www.regencyfriends.org for details; John will >teach extensively. Yes, that is the same weekend as the BACDS Playford Ball. >Kill me.) This could be a problem for the Santa Barbara Style. Some of us will want to prepare for the Playford Ball and others for the Assembly. Or we'll do both, ditching the Assembly on the day of the Ball. Do the two events fall on the same weekend every year? The Assembly will have dancing to tapes on Friday night (vs the Playford Rehearsal dance), during the day on Saturday, to the Divertimento Dance Orchestra on Saturday night (vs. the Playford Ball), and probably to tapes again on Sunday. If you ditch the Assembly for the Ball, you'll miss the only live music at the Assembly. John Hertz will do all the instruction, of which there will be a minimum at the Ball. The two events do _not_ fall on the same weekend every year. Both move around a bit, although the Assembly is usually in early March. (The Assembly is also generally in Los Angeles, although it has been as close to you as Ventura.) They wanted to hold it up here in March, found a suitable hotel, and asked me to check my calendar for the dates the hotel was available. Playford hadn't announced its dates yet, so that weekend seemed open, I told them so, and they booked it. (Of course, I _am_ on the BACDS Board, and we approved Playford putting a deposit down on the hall a year before, so I could have gone back through old minutes and found the date. That's why I say "Kill me." It's my fault. And I suffer for it.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:43:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:43:32 -0500 (EST) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <5f56b03c.34f34d1a-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-02-23, Ben Stein writes: " Unfortunately it is all subjective. I too like Parson's Farewell. ...." No, make that "*fortunately*, it is all subjective."! (well, partly subjective..) It would be very limiting and much less fun if that subjective element weren't there. What might happen to Newcastle, Orleans Baffled, Bar a Bar..... (I might even gulp a few swallows of that "tomato-marshmallow surprise" at the Bad Taste Potluck to get to do those...well, on second thought.....) And what would happen to a discussion list like this? And it's not just that we have different opinions of certain dances - our own response to the same dance is subjective, too. An undistinguished simple dance may be exactly what my mind wants after a dance more beautiful but more challenging, and one evening's "dorky dance" may have just the whimsy I need another evening after a stressful day. Carol Martinez who's never been too fond of Nonesuch (support group, anyone?) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:09:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:08:46 -0500 (EST) From: BILLQS-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <10682abd.34f35300-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << As for my candidates for worst ever playford dance, I'm afraid that Newcastle is pretty high on the list for me. ...the tune is ordinary (to my way of thinking), the dance is fussy. I feel better now, sort of like a confessional really - maybe I should set up a support group for people who don't like Newcastle. Dargason would also be on my least favourite list. >> I have to agree with you on Dargason, I've always thought it a dance that emphasized none of the things I really love about ECD, partner interaction etc. On Newcastle, though I have to disagree. It is somewhat complex to teach for the end result, but I thouroughly enjoy the tune, and love to see new couples' faces light up the first time it works, and they've ended up where they started. Bill Street a SCAdian ECD'er ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:10:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:03:20 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Best/Worst Dances, and Back Through the Ceiling To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Bruce Hamilton Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:18 AM -0800 2/24/98, Bruce Hamilton wrote: >What a great thread! Enough to shake me out of lurking for a few >minutes (how DO you all find the time to write as much as you do?). LOL! I have a sleep surrogate, don't you? Mary Beth Goodman <-- has to give sleep surrogate occasional night off to attend meetings and functions in vertical position! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:05:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:05:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Feb 1998 BILLQS-AT- aol.com wrote: > << As for my candidates for worst ever playford dance, I'm afraid that > Newcastle is pretty high on the list for me. > > ...the tune is ordinary (to my way of thinking), the dance is fussy. I feel > better > now, sort of like a confessional really - maybe I should set up a > support group for people who don't like Newcastle. > > Dargason would also be on my least favourite list. > >> > > I have to agree with you on Dargason, I've always thought it a dance that > emphasized none of the things I really love about ECD, partner interaction > etc. > > On Newcastle, though I have to disagree. It is somewhat complex to teach for > the end result, but I thouroughly enjoy the tune, and love to see new couples' > faces light up the first time it works, and they've ended up where they > started. That's how I feel about Newcastle too. But I'm not particularly fond of Dargason either; the tune is somewhat repetitious and the steps are sort of a no-brainer. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:09:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 02:09:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Bad Playford, cont. To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Paul J. Stamler wrote: > On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Bruce Hamilton wrote: > > > Darn! Now I can't get the Bad Playford Party out of my head. Shall > > we have Bad Hemmingway program notes? A quotation from William > > McGonnagal on the inside front cover? "Bad taste attire recommended"? > > The program chosen so the dances make a descending chromatic scale? A > > Bad Taste potluck afterwards? > > Oh no -- not Tomato-Marshmallow Surprise *again*! > > Urp. And don't forget those Crayola-colored tea cookies some supermarkets sell in the shape of dragons, footballs, etc... Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 03:25:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:29:55 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Best/Worst Dances, and Back Through the Ceiling To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F40EC3.58BF-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199802241818.AA073274297-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> Bruce, It is customary to finish off Cupid's Garden with the chorus "Grand Square". I believe that is the custom in England anyway (cfr. Wild Thyme's recording). Am I right, Colin? Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:54:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:55:03 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: come in, Belgium To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Begging the list's pardon... Would Phillippe Callens please send me a message? I've tried to use the address but my system can't handle it. thanks Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:00:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:01:08 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen D Corrsin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am glad to see that enthusiasm is building rapidly for the Bad Ball, a.k.a. Playford of the Damned. I wonder if a NYC area group would be interested in sponsoring such an event. I'd be happy to be on an organizing committee. Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. Any more ideas? Steve Corrsin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:07:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:49:02 -0600 From: lstout-AT- sun.iwu.edu (Larry Stout) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802251549.JAA15292-AT- goedel.iwu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dargason: the tune is 19 repetitions of the same phrase. That qualifies as repetitious unless the band does something with it. When Flatland Consort plays it we have two counter melodies going in the woodwind section. My job as (second) fiddler is to keep Dargason's own tune going and count to 19 so that we all end on time (it helps to watch the progress of the dance!). Larry Stout ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:16:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:17:08 +0100 ("MET) From: Tom Goodale Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > I am glad to see that enthusiasm is building rapidly for the Bad Ball, > a.k.a. Playford of the Damned. > > I wonder if a NYC area group would be interested in sponsoring such an > event. I'd be happy to be on an organizing committee. > > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. > > Any more ideas? > > Steve Corrsin > Everyone to wear hob-nailed boots ? Tom ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:29:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:29:41 -0500 From: swartell-AT- cas.org (Sue Wartell (swartell-AT- cas.org, ext. 3387)) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re(2): Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9802251129.AA22496-AT- cas.org> I've never been fond of Dargason as a dance, although after I watched it as a demo, I decided it wasn't quite as awful as I had always thought. However, my husband, a muscian, HATES it. He played for the ECD group before we met, and he claims that Dargason was one of the reasons he gave up playing for ECD. When I mentioned this thread to him he wanted to know if Dargason had showed up. Then he wondered if it was the tune or the dance that rated the "worst" classification, and I told him "Yes". Sue Wartell Columbus, OH ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:41:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:41:45 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: [stuff ruthlessly hacked out] > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. > > Any more ideas? How about faded, dull siding? And the choice of hall, and acoustics, and sound support? Think of all the wonderful uses that could be made with those magical delay boxes; wouldn't some nice simulated large-room acoustics be just wonderfou for the caller, particularly if fed back to a monitor he/she could hear? And perhaps the musicians would like to hear the caller better, too . . . }:-)> And my favorite contribution to the snack table (actually invented back in Boy-Scout days...): Hershey's syrup/tuna fish spread (yum!) Perhaps a building with a stone floor, sort of like cobblestones, would add an aura of authenticity, a bit like dancing in a castle... And a final bondfire, at which it could be determined whether banjos (YES! Banjos for ECD!) or accordians or PSO's burn longer. (Which we would all duly ignore, because we don't care.) D'you _really_ want any more ideas??? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor (not 20 miles from Hell itself [Hell, MI that is]) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:44:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:41:20 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Worst Playford Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980225104120.2bd-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Reply Consider "Dou8ble Dargason" if "Sedany or Dargason" is not to your liking. You make two sets, crossing as an X and accomodate the arming in the center with right and left hand stars. The final rights and lefts get a bit hairy, but that's part of the fun. A great public performance work for our group. Just my opinion. Please don't try to think for me. Forbes and running ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:09:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Tom Goodale wrote: > Everyone to wear hob-nailed boots ? Just right for our excellent concrete floor. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:06:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:06:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01ITZVG5DBY09AMQDZ-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Steve Corrsin writes: Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. Admittedly, the Accordions from Hell were largely a joke at Mendocino, but the Bay Area has also had at least a couple of appearances, notably on the day after Christmas, of a fine all-squeezebox band called The Boxer Rebellion. And San Francisco's Those Darn Accordions records and tours, but doesn't play for country dance. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:37:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:34:46 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, Tom Goodale Message-ID: <00099FD8.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [Snip] On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > I am glad to see that enthusiasm is building rapidly for the Bad Ball, > a.k.a. Playford of the Damned. > > Any more ideas? Tom Goodale wrote: Everyone to wear hob-nailed boots ? Only if you want pay for the floor repair, and lead the search for a new hall for the next event. Marty Fager, who has had the pleasure of searching for ball venues, but is otherwise enjoying this thread. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:26:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:47:43 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd4165$74a4c660$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Every so often this list really emphasises the subjectivity of one's responses to things! Orlean's Baffled, boring?! :) Martin Hungerford >Orleans Baffled. Both the moves & the tune seem rather boring to me. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:26:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:50:52 +1100 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Newcastle Support Group To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01bd4165$e4eecec0$0100007f-AT- localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who find Newcastle dull, try playing Newcastle, followed by Jolly PloughBoy, followed by Newcastle :) Martin Hungerford ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:50:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 16:46:11 -0500 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802251650_MC2-34B5-322-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have the Wild Thyme recording with me in the States, but I've never called Cupid's Garden ending with the Grand Square. I understand that it's nice to have everybody moving at the end of the dance, and doing something with your partner rather than suddenly meeting each other in time for the final acknowledgement - but that's not how they wrote it. I do remember that Wild Thyme finish "The Doldrum" (on the same Maggot Pie cassette) with a repeat of the introduction, and because a lot of dancing in England is done to recorded music that has become the de facto standard. Maybe that's the one Philippe is thinking of. I sometimes compromise by doing it without the final introduction the first time and with it the second time (particularly if I'm calling with Wild Thyme). At the Cambridge (USA) English session last week we danced Hunsdon House with a final Grand Square - no, I wasn't calling. And yet I call Step Stately with the introduction repeated at the end, so who am I to cast the first stone? But if you're going to add extras to the end of a dance for the above reasons, where does it stop? Would you do it for "Newcastle"? Finally, if you dislike "Dargason" because you hardly see your partner and you're either bored or dizzy depending on which position you're in, may I recommend Alan Davies' "Fair shares" version. Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:08:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:56:39 -0800 From: Allen and Alisa Dodson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Shameless Plugs To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gene Murrow said: >[shameless plug] You can enjoy these two dances, and many more like them >written by East Coast (US) choreographers such as Fried Herman and Gary >Roodman, at the "Stars of the East" sessions I'll be doing for experienced >dancers at this summer's "English Week" at Mendocino, sponsored by the >BACDS (Bay Area Country Dance Society). I don't have the >contact/registration info in front of me, but I'm sure Alisa Dodson (on >this list) could post it. And Alisa, who is finally caught up with her e-mail, says if you would like more information, or a registration brochure, please send her a note at . The pre-lottery registration deadline is April 10. Gene will be doing the session mentioned above, and also one titled "What Makes A Dance Great" -- AND a Leader's session! Also offered will be ECD by Marianne Taylor and Cynthia Stenger; a French dance session from Marianne; Northwest Clog Morris and Garland from Cathy Henson; Cotswold Morris from Jocelyn Reynolds; Longsword from Yours Truly; and singing by Doug Olsen of Oak, Ash and Thorn. Music by Jonathan Jensen, Chuck Ward, Barbara Greenberg, Kimberly McKittrick, Daniel Beerbohm, Liz Dreisbach, Allen Dodson and Craig Johnson. Hope to see many of you there! Alisa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:00:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:47:31 -0500 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Revival: Best/Worst Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980225234731.006b45f8-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Diane Schmit, evidently being in a Playful mood, called the program appearing below at this evening's EC dance at the Glen Echo Town Hall, Glen Echo Maryland: Feb 25 Caller: Diane Schmit Musicians: Becky Ross, fiddle; Liz Donaldson, piano; and Hope Stanton, concertina Zephyrs & Flora *Easter Thursday Ashford Anniversary Apley House *Cupid's Garden Jacob Hall's Jig *Orleans Baffled Physical Snob Well Hall *Dances recently listed by some as un-favorites on the ECD listserv To me, this program, not to mention the line-up of musicians, makes me feel LUCKY to be the beneficiary of so much talent. If you are in the Washington, DC area on Wednesday evenings, stop in and enjoy our weekly ECD. Check out the web for the Folklore Society of Greater Washington at www.FSGW.org or write to me for info. Cheers, -- Roger __ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer: _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com ________ (/_______________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:18:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:17:26 -0500 From: Diane Schmit Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Revival: Best/Worst Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980226001726.006cb740-AT- popd.ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Philippe (& Bruce), I don't know about in England, but in the Baltimore/DC area we have always (when we have dared to call it) ended Cupid's Garden with the Grand Square chorus figure. It NEEDS that! (Many of us here do love this dance!) Diane, guilty as accused dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com At 11:47 PM 2/25/98 -0500, you wrote: >Diane Schmit, evidently being in a Playful mood, called the program >appearing below at this evening's EC dance at the Glen Echo Town Hall, Glen >Echo Maryland: > >Feb 25 Caller: Diane Schmit > Musicians: Becky Ross, fiddle; Liz Donaldson, piano; and > Hope Stanton, concertina > >Zephyrs & Flora *Easter Thursday Ashford Anniversary >Apley House *Cupid's Garden Jacob Hall's Jig >*Orleans Baffled Physical Snob Well Hall > *Dances recently listed by some as un-favorites on the ECD listserv > >To me, this program, not to mention the line-up of musicians, makes me feel >LUCKY to be the beneficiary of so much talent. > >If you are in the Washington, DC area on Wednesday evenings, stop in and >enjoy our weekly ECD. Check out the web for the Folklore Society of >Greater Washington at www.FSGW.org or write to me for info. > >Cheers, > >-- Roger >__ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ > /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country > / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer: > _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com >________ (/_______________________________________________________________ > > Diane Schmit dschmit-AT- ix.netcom.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 01:17:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 04:18:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote: > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. > > Any more ideas? All-accordion band? Why not jews harp or comb & tissue paper? Or kazoos? Or double reed slide music stands? The mind boggles... Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 05:07:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:05:37 -0500 From: Steven J Gold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 4:18 AM -0500 2/26/98, Dawn Culbertson wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote:> > > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but > > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars > > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. >> > > > Any more ideas? > > All-accordion band? Why not jews harp or comb & tissue paper? Or kazoos? > Or double reed slide music stands? The mind boggles... Why pay money for multiple musicians! The appropriate "band" for this event will be a single electric bass. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:52:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:51:15 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199802261151_MC2-34C8-DAE-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bruce Hamilton is right-- who can resist such a thread?! My un-favorite dances are: in the historical category (the envelope please): "Fair Quaker of Deal" [hopping into those back rings! ugh!]. In= the modern category: John Tallis' Canon [an overly fussy dance where you never get to dance with your partner while everyone mechanically plods around trying to listen to a stupid tune in canon that sounds like Ferde Grofe or Camille Saint-Saens on a bad day. Playing it is worse]. I'll probably need a support group for this one... And, hey, lay off Argeers!= ! = It's one of my favorites (music, dance, and lyrics). Having said all that, Fair Quaker and John Tallis' Canon are GOOD dances-= - they're well constructed, idomatic, interesting, fit the music, etc., etc= =2E = and they are enjoyed by many. I just detest them. (JTC actually is a perfect "social obligation" dance-- one where you can ask someone to danc= e to whom you "owe" a dance but you really don't want to dance with-- {you figure out the grammar, I give up}). So in our serious moments (such as= they are) we should make a distinction between "bad dances" and "dances I= don't like." = Gene Murrow EC Dancer looking forward to the Bad Playford Ball = = ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:11:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:11:15 -0500 From: Maryn McKenna Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: new thread! was Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" gene murrow just said: > [John Tallis' Canon] is a >perfect "social obligation" dance-- one where you can ask someone to dance >to whom you "owe" a dance but you really don't want to dance with-- this is irresistible. anyone else have dances they would place in this category? (i do. not Parson's Farewell, either (shudder); but of course i can't think of its name. i could hum it...) maryn mckenna atlanta ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:15:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:15:43 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802261715.MAA29065-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:51 AM 2/26/98 -0500, Gene Murrow wrote: >Having said all that, Fair Quaker and John Tallis' Canon are GOOD dances-- >they're well constructed, idomatic, interesting, fit the music, etc., etc. >and they are enjoyed by many. I just detest them. (JTC actually is a >perfect "social obligation" dance-- one where you can ask someone to dance >to whom you "owe" a dance but you really don't want to dance with-- {you >figure out the grammar, I give up}). So if you ever ask any of us to be your partner for JTC, we'll know what to think! Sharon Green [who liked Argeers when Gene last taught it] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:10:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980226191529.13460.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Gene Murrow wrote: > (JTC actually is a > perfect "social obligation" dance-- one where you can ask someone to dance > to whom you "owe" a dance but you really don't want to dance with-- {you > figure out the grammar, I give up}). The technical name for those is "Ugly Cousin Dances" for reasons which should be self-evident. Credit (or blame) to my former room-mate Andrew. >So in our serious moments (such as > they are) we should make a distinction between "bad dances" and "dances I > don't like." Maybe we should stop thinking of them as "bad dances" altogether and think of them instead as good dances who have done bad things. Or, what happens when a good dance goes bad? Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:19:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:19:37 -0800 From: "Gary D. Shapiro" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Steven Gold said: >At 4:18 AM -0500 2/26/98, Dawn Culbertson wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote:> >> > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but >> > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars >> > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. >>> > >> > Any more ideas? >> > All-accordion band? Why not jews harp or comb & tissue paper? Or kazoos? >> Or double reed slide music stands? The mind boggles... > >Why pay money for multiple musicians! The appropriate "band" for this event >will be a single electric bass. Why pay money for *any* musicians! Certainly someone has some "appropriate" music on 8-track and an 8-track deck somewhere in their garage. -- Gary D. Shapiro (pronounced "Gary Yes!") Life is uncertain. Dance whenever possible. Dessert can wait. Or, if you must, eat dessert on your way to the dance. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:49:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:51:13 -0500 From: Martin.Fager-AT- bowne.com (Martin Fager) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, "Gary D. Shapiro" Message-ID: <0009B662.1618-AT- bowne.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steven Gold said: >At 4:18 AM -0500 2/26/98, Dawn Culbertson wrote: >> On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Stephen D Corrsin wrote:> >> > Possible features include Duelling Teachers (say, simultaneous but >> > contradictory calling), a debate over Sharp vs. Vinyl Siding, Registrars >> > refusing to accept registrations in person, an all-accordeon band, etc. >>> > >> > Any more ideas? >> > All-accordion band? Why not jews harp or comb & tissue paper? Or kazoos? >> Or double reed slide music stands? The mind boggles... > >Why pay money for multiple musicians! The appropriate "band" for this event >will be a single electric bass. Why pay money for *any* musicians! Certainly someone has some "appropriate" music on 8-track and an 8-track deck somewhere in their garage. ---------------------------------------------------------- Perhaps this event could also have a Sadie Hawkins aspect- the men and women could dance each other's roles, the women could do all the asking for the next dance, etc. Cross-dressing would be optional, of course. Marty Fager ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:32:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:32:23 -0500 From: Steven J Gold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:51 PM -0500 2/26/98, Marty Fage wrote: > > Perhaps this event could also have a Sadie Hawkins aspect- the men and > women could dance each other's roles, the women could do all the asking > for the next dance, etc. Cross-dressing would be optional, of course. > > Marty Fager Hmmm... We have not thought about who should be invited: experenced dancers, beginers, country-western dancers, etc. We should invite the local pre-schools to participate by tell them that "Big Bird" and "Barney" will be there... Wait! Why not have the 'Dueling Callers" dressed as Big Bird & Barney ! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:34:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:38:06 -0800 (PST) From: James Langdell Subject: Re: Re[2]: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: jamesc-AT- Eng.Sun.COM Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199802262038.MAA04695-AT- bassclar.eng.sun.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii For the "Bad Ball", an intermission feature might be a set-dance demo designed by Survival Research Labs, a San Francisco area performance group that generally builds robots that are let loose to destroy each other. As to the dance band, I think 13 soprano recorder players doing the tune in "unison" would be appropriate for such an event. --James Langdell jamesc-AT- eng.sun.com Sun Microsystems Menlo Park, Calif. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:01:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:59:09 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: When good dances go bad . . . To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980226215909.1854.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Bruce Hamilton wrote: > > What a great thread! Enough to shake me out of lurking for a few > minutes (how DO you all find the time to write as much as you do?). I'm more impressed by how many disliked dances people manage to remember! I have such a hard time keeping names connected to dances that I put all my efforts into remembering the ones I do like, so I can look for them and request them when possible. Of course there is also an advantage in remembering what to avoid. I do confess myself among those who are Baffled by the pleasures of Orleans, but I think my personal least favorite is "Jenny Pluck Pears" because of the change in music from peppy to dolorous during the women going into the center figure (which is a pretty dull figure, too). I don't think I've ever danced "Argeers", "Dargason" or "Cupid's Garden". If I have, I don't remember - selective forgetting perhaps? Of course, context is everything. The genuinely _worst_ dance would depend on who is one's partner. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:52:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:50:02 -0600 From: Helen Mayo Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain >>> Barbara Ruth Subject: Worst Venue for the Ball from Hell To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F5F834.1F39-AT- worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When you actually get around to holding your Ball from Hell, I highly recommend St. Stephen's School in Rome, Italy. There is a desanctified marble church with loose floor tiles (12 inch square, 3/4 inch thick marble tiles that tilt), and eight side apses along the nave. Incredible reverberations and delayed echos. The electronic amplification picks up police and fire bands (in Italian, of course). A cultural high! Runner up location is a gymnasium with metal grids over the clerestory windows that "chime" with every vibration. Aloha, Yona Chock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:34:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:40:02 -1000 From: "Yona B. & Alvin Keali'i Chock" Subject: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F5E132.42CD-AT- worldnet.att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We're new to the ECD List, having gotten on through a missive from the trad-sd group. For the past several days, we've been deluged with the worst dances, and even suggestions on having the Worst Ball in New York (is that the worst venue?). Since we're the new kids on the block, may we make a positive suggestion? How about, instead, nominations for the BEST dance -- and not only the title, but the choreography, and perhaps even some history about the dance [i.e., who composed it, when, and perhaps (if available, and of significance) the circumstanfces leading to the writing of the dance)? I am impressed with the fact that most of you seem to know all these worst dances by heart. As a teacher/dancer I prefer to spend my time both reading and dancing the BEST rather than the WORST. Anybody have some favorite BEST dances they'd care to share? If not we'll drop out of this chat room now and save time and paper. Aloha, Yona & Al Chock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:34:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:33:54 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199802261834_MC2-34D1-B379-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message text written by Barbara Ruth: >Or, what happens when a good dance goes bad? < Same as any other miscreant-- it goes to court. Then there's the idea "When Bad Things Happen to Good Dances." I'm not a= rabbi, but as a caller I could write a book... it would explain a lot. Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:11:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:14:22 -0800 From: metis-AT- seki.mcs.csuhayward.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802270014.QAA02260-AT- seki.mcs> I recall a Pinewoods skit years back of "Great Moments in English Country Dancing", which features such things as the 4 seconds of moving in a line of four forwards, then backwards in the same direction from Dublin Bay. Instead of picking (thoroughly) bad dances, perhaps there's room for the category "Worst Moments in ECD". I was going to make a suggestion, but it more properly falls under Gene's category below: > Then there's the idea "When Bad Things Happen to Good Dances." I hearby nominate the moment in "Star of David" when the middle couple taps the person in front of them on the shoulder as a reminder to "get outta the way!". As a teaching device it may have some merit, but after at least three such teachings in the Bay Area in the past few months, I wonder how many people may be subject to unwanted taps at the ball? Or is the consensus that people prefer to be tapped? How about it, Colin? Would you mind if the tap became an integral part of the dance? "Folk process" after all. Tom Tom Roby Department of Math & CS metis-AT- mcs.csuhayward.edu California State University [Fax] 510-885-4169 25800 Carlos Bee Blvd. [Off] 510-885-2691 Hayward, CA 94542-3092 http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~troby ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:00:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:01:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IU1L4U6CC29AMQDZ-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Yona & Al wrote: We're new to the ECD List, having gotten on through a missive from the trad-sd group. For the past several days, we've been deluged with the worst dances, and even suggestions on having the Worst Ball in New York (is that the worst venue?). That just happens to be what we're talking about now, by the way; if you look at the archive, which is available on the web at http://www-ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/~winston/ecd.html you may find that we've talked about a good many more positive things. In fact, if you search on the thread "recently composed", you'll find a lot of nominations for best dances of the last dozen years, often with references as to where to find them. Then look at "Chestnuts of 2297" for the result, with full references. Since we're the new kids on the block, may we make a positive suggestion? How about, instead, nominations for the BEST dance -- and not only the title, but the choreography, and perhaps even some history about the dance [i.e., who composed it, when, and perhaps (if available, and of significance) the circumstanfces leading to the writing of the dance)? You should probably pick up THE PLAYFORD BALL, by Keller & Shimer, available via CDSS (at http://www.cdss.org), which has directions, music, and what historical information is known about 102 historical dances reconstructed in this century. Most of the best historical dances are in there, although we usually only know when those dances were published, not who devised them or what brought it on. If you're interested in this kind of thing, the book is _essential_. The history you ask for is usually only available about dances composed in the last 50 years, and most of those are in copyright; I'm dubious about spontaneously posting choreographies without permission -- although some of the dance devisors are on this list and might choose to share, or give permission. You still can't get a good idea of the effect of the dance without the music, unlike contra dances. I am impressed with the fact that most of you seem to know all these worst dances by heart. As a teacher/dancer I prefer to spend my time both reading and dancing the BEST rather than the WORST. Anybody have some favorite BEST dances they'd care to share? If not we'll drop out of this chat room now and save time and paper. I don't know if you noticed that many of the "worst" dances were favorites of other people here, which shows how subjective this whole business in. (There are some objective features, which you might have seen reference to in the Bad Contra discussion -- any dance that makes the participants physically ill is probably not a good one.) So what people have been posting as "worst" dances are "dances I don't like." "Best" dances are only going to be "dances I like", which may be because the tune is wonderful. I personally find myself unable to pick a favorite dance, and when I try to pick a top ten, I get about twenty in it. I'll try restricting the field, and giving nominations below: BEST WALTZ MIXER Big Circle Formation: The Wood Duck, Fried Herman Square: Heidenroslein, Pat Shaw (Yes, I'm a sucker for those schmaltzy melancholy waltz tunes. I also like Irish Lamentation.) BEST LATE-EIGHTEENTH CENTURY VARIANT ON STAR RIGHT, STAR LEFT, DOWN THE MIDDLE AND BACK, CAST OFF, FOUR CHANGES JIG TIME: The Young Widow WALTZ TIME: Duke of Kent's Waltz Hmmm. I don't think this is that interesting. What dances do _you_ like? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:14:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:13:51 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/26/98 6:47:23 PM, you wrote: <> Great idea. My nomination for best dance is Jacqueline Schwab's "Hudson Barn." To me, the perfect blend of music and smooth movement.... The fact that I first did it in C# (the dance floor, not the key) to Bare Necessities' playing may play a role in my appreciation of the dance, but I would enjoy it anywhere, any time. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:44:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:44:54 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802270244.UAA06838-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> One person's worst dance is another person's best dance. Several of the dances that have been nominated as worst dance are some of my favorites, Jenny Pluck Pears for one example. I find that the temoOpo change can be very expressive, and it occurs when the men go into the center as well not just the women. Newcastle and Dargason are two others that I like very much. I don't feel qualified to suggest a best dance of all time, but one of my current favorites is The Duke of Kent's Waltz. Hunsdon House, Jack's Maggot, The Queen's Jig and Heartsease are some others that I find very enjoyable. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:44:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:44:55 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802270244.VAA09146-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:01 PM 2/26/98 -0700, Alan Winston wrote: > >So what people have been posting as "worst" dances are "dances I don't like." >"Best" dances are only going to be "dances I like", which may be because the >tune is wonderful. Like Alan, I can't restrict myself to a top ten or twenty. There are dances whose tunes grab me--Jacques Latin and Leather Lake House and Wa' Is Me and Ashford Anniversary and Good Man of Cambridge and Barbarini's Tambourine; dances whose patterns I get so caught up in that I feel mesmerized--Punch Bowl and King of Poland and Hambleton's; dances that make me feel incredibly jolly--Newcastle and Parson's Farewell and Walpole Cottage and Bryon's Boutade; dances with personal associations that endear them to me--Michael & All Angels and Star of David and Rose of Sharon, that best of birthday gifts. The trouble is, once you've started listing loved dances, how can you stop? One of the great things about ECD is the incredible variety of flavors of the dances. Again, there's context: I like Black Nag in general, but I really love it when there are bunches of beginners around, because even the newest of dancers can catch on to its timing and relax and have fun. That's it for me. As Alan asked, what dances do _you_ like? Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:08:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:08:52 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Great idea. My nomination for best dance is Jacqueline Schwab's "Hudson Barn." >To me, the perfect blend of music and smooth movement.... The fact that I >first did it in C# (the dance floor, not the key) to Bare Necessities' playing >may play a role in my appreciation of the dance, but I would enjoy it >anywhere, any time. Even though I was there at it's debut, I still can't stand this dance. I never have had Right and Left at a gut level, and starring some specific distance requires more concentration that should be required more than once in a dance. In addition I don't think anyone will ever get the tempo down to Jacqueline's original idea. I'm in favor of sitting this one out nearly every time. But have you ever done Helene's Night Out, or What Shall We Do With The Baby-O? I nominate Hambleton's, and Aberdeen, and Picking Up Sticks, and Aily and The Bish, and Orleans! And St. Margaret's Hill. And the Old Mill (or The Merry Salopians). Mr. Isaac's. Joy After Sorrow, Miss DeJersey's, Levi Jackson. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 19:23:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:22:54 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Great idea. My nomination for best dance is Jacqueline Schwab's "Hudson Barn." >To me, the perfect blend of music and smooth movement.... The fact that I >first did it in C# (the dance floor, not the key) to Bare Necessities' playing >may play a role in my appreciation of the dance, but I would enjoy it >anywhere, any time. > >Carl Friedman Right on! Mary Beth Goodman <-- please don't make me choose...... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:38:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:38:14 -0800 From: "Michael J. O'Connor" Subject: Re: The Best Instead To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F67B76.63C9-AT- erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Fried Herman's Measured Obsession is a favorite of mine, and a number of others in the NY area. It flows so nicely. But I wonder, is it less well (or not at all?) known elsewhere? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:40:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: BHFrancis Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Social Obligation" dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: BHFrancis-AT- aol.com Message-ID: <1f3a4095.34f64384-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maryn McKenna asks about social obligation dances such as Gene Murrow's mention of John Tallis's canon. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this list who remember John Hodgkin either from dancing in New York City or at Pinewoods. John never missed a dance or a social opportunity. (Those who knew John will recognize this as an understatement.) Once he revealed a trade secret to me: if he had to ask somebody for an obligatory dance, he tried to make it Newcastle, because you lose your partner a third of the way through. John found a way to flatter "bread and butter" partners by asking them for a prestigious dance, but he was no doubt extremely busy flirting with the other ladies in the set for the final two thirds of the dance. Just remember that most of the people who will ask you to dance Newcastle will not be nearly so calculating (I think)! Beverly Francis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:57:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:56:07 -0500 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: About Worst Best Worst, er, Best Worst Best To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980227085607.006ca5c0-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There are offenses given and offenses not given but taken. - Izaak Walton ------ Thanks to fellow dancer Steve Satterfield for this quote. -- Roger __ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer: _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com ________ (/_______________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 06:06:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:04:12 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <980227080412.92d-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Does anyone besides me remember a column in one of the English folk dance magazines called something like "The Bad gig Guide"? The content consisted of reports from bands and callers who had terrible (or terribly funny) experiences at, usually, one-night-stand dances. The stories were hilarious in ther poignancy. Forbes and still going ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:08:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:08:17 -0600 From: Bob Borcherding Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: The Best Instead of the Worst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802271508.JAA19814-AT- mail.stlnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I find it heartening that people have a much easier time naming the dances they don't like, rather than those that they enjoy (how to pick one of many?). To me, this indicates that there are few dances that are truly disliked (oh, come on, Orlenas Baffled?) and many, many that are liked. This is good! Bob Borcherding gapbob-AT- stlnet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:23:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:23:22 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Some of my favorites: Quite Carried Away; Kelsterne Gardens; Jack's Health; The Punchbowl; Speed the Plough; The Old Mill; Elizabeth; Mayfair; Fair and Softly (as a duple minor); The Astonished Archeologist; An Enchanted Place; For Marjorie; Laurelhurst. And just about any Dance from Hell (or better) done with Sharon Green... Hudson Barn and Measured Obsession are not as well known in the midwest as they are in the east, in my experience, but they certainly deserve to be. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 07:39:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:41:04 -0500 From: Steven J Gold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I guess I'm sort of a "romantic traditionalist" -- my top 3 are: Hole In The Wall, Well Hall, & Duke of Kent's Waltz ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:34:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:27:44 -0500 From: "Daniel J. Walkowitz" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Social Obligation" dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980227112744.007a9b10-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I find it not uncommon to be partnered for a dance before either of us knows what is coming. When we learn it is a dance in we will mostly pass in the night, the response is often (from either partner) "this doesn't count as our dance." The social obligation dance then becomes a bond to yet another dance with the same partner, sometimes with great pleasure, sometimes not. So much for the best laid plans.... Danny At 11:39 PM 2/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >Maryn McKenna asks about social obligation dances such as Gene Murrow's >mention of John Tallis's canon. I'm sure there are plenty of people on this >list who remember John Hodgkin either from dancing in New York City or at >Pinewoods. John never missed a dance or a social opportunity. (Those who >knew John will recognize this as an understatement.) Once he revealed a trade >secret to me: if he had to ask somebody for an obligatory dance, he tried to >make it Newcastle, because you lose your partner a third of the way through. >John found a way to flatter "bread and butter" partners by asking them for a >prestigious dance, but he was no doubt extremely busy flirting with the other >ladies in the set for the final two thirds of the dance. Just remember that >most of the people who will ask you to dance Newcastle will not be nearly so >calculating (I think)! > >Beverly Francis > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:08:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 12:10:34 -0500 From: "Albert A. Blank" Subject: Re: What to say when they howl To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <34F6F38A.4D06-AT- postbox.csi.cuny.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <19980217110713.49315-AT- apocalypse.org> On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Erna-Lynne Bogue wrote (in part): > On a similar note, one of my big pet peeves are dancers who > persistantly whistle or hum while the dance is going on. I don't mind > a little bit, but when it's continuous it's rather irritating. ******* Well, Yes and no! While I agree with Erna Lynn that whistling is hard on the ears (and so few of us can whistle well) I don't find soft humming objectionable. In fact, no less an authority than Fried Herman urges dancers to hum or sing along to internalize the music and get the dance muscles coordinated with the tune. It doesn't matter whether you are on pitch! In this, I agree with her. But do it softly so that other dancers can enjoy their sleep. I think it quite wonderful when the band forgets or adds a repeat and comes in with another part that the singers and hummers often come in loud at the correct place. Take heart, everyone. ECD is real fun! Albert -- Albert A. Blank e-mail: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:43:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:43:18 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Social Obligation" dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <96e2f99d.34f70948-AT- aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Queen's Jig is another "social obligation dance." At best, you get a moment of eye contact with your partner just before the turn single at the end of the hands across. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:47:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:46:50 -0500 (EST) From: CF1125 Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 2/27/98 3:24:32 PM, Eric Arnold wrote: (snip) <> Reminds me of one of my LEAST favorites.... Please, someone explain to me what you see in The Old Mill??? Especially done at the snail's pace ("stately tempo") at which it has been done every time I have suffered through it. Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:07:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:08:05 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802271908.OAA00726-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:46 PM 2/27/98 -0500, Carl Friedman wrote: > >Reminds me of one of my LEAST favorites.... >Please, someone explain to me what you see in The Old Mill??? Especially done >at the snail's pace ("stately tempo") at which it has been done every time I >have suffered through it. I love the interaction in the opening, the way you, as first woman, can catch your partner's eye while he's turning the third woman and draw him back to follow you [or the way you, as third woman, can so completely engage the first man's attention that he's almost late to pursue his partner--wicked!]. Re tempo, it's _much_ harder to dance slowly--you've really got to gather up your body and feel you're sailing through space, otherwise you can fall into what some friends across the pond have called the Playford Plod. [My impression is that in England folks do the slow dances slower and the fast dances steppier than we generally do here.] I bet Vicky Bestock could say some good stuff re carriage & slow movement here. Vicky? Sharon Green [who sees *all* sorts of stuff in The Old Mill] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:22:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:27:47 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re[2]: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980227222747.17939.rocketmail-AT- web2.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Martin Fager wrote: > Perhaps this event could also have a Sadie Hawkins aspect- the men and > women could dance each other's roles, the women could do all the asking > for the next dance, etc. Cross-dressing would be optional, of course. I feel like I've wandered in from the wrong century here. As far as I'm aware, women asking men for dances nowadays is about as unusual, and as intrinsically humorous, as say, a woman doctor or lawyer. Switching roles may be a little more unusual - at least in predominantly straight dance venues - but it still occurs generally without causing any huge fuss. And of course many women and some cheerfully dance either role with partners of the same sex. I don't see that there is anything that qualifies as "hellish" in any of these things. The cross-dressing aspect on the other hand I could see. Very few men know how to choose a ball gown that complements their figures. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:33:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Good, the Bad and the cosmetically challenged. To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980227222533.18529.rocketmail-AT- web1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Gene Murrow wrote: > Message text written by Barbara Ruth: > >Or, what happens when a good dance goes bad? > < > Same as any other miscreant-- it goes to court. I thought that was where they started out from. > Then there's the idea "When Bad Things Happen to Good Dances." I'm not a > rabbi, but as a caller I could write a book... it would explain a lot. Or how about "When Bad Dances Happen to Good People." Oops, there's that notion of bad dances again. And we all know no dances are truly bad - there are just some that made a few mis-steps in their youth. Barbara Ruth _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:54:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:54:53 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Re[2]: enthusiasm builds To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Barbara Ruth wrote: [snip] . . . Very few > men know how to choose a ball gown that complements their figures. As generic statements by men about what most women are or aren't capable of are usually based more on men's prejudices than on their knowledge of women's capabilities, this statement is similarly suspect. While I grant that humor rather than harm may have been the intent of this statement, in view of the fact that most men choose not to wear ball gowns, it could very well be that they _do_ know how to choose ball gowns that compliment their figures, and because the fashion industry makes very little effort to design ball gowns for men, there are very few satisfactory choices. It's a bit like blaming women or minorities for not choosing to be college professors . . . Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:43:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:23:07 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Favorite Dances and Ball Gowns To: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: <01BD43B7.C41F3E60-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Obviously you have never seen Peter Barnes in a ball gown! Believe me- = he knows how to choose. :-) And to cast my vote for some of my favorite dances- From Aberdeen, = Hudson Barn, Young Widow, Mr. Isaac's Maggot, Knives & Forkes, Room for = Ramblers, Gigue for Genny, Levi Jackson. Absolutely true- far easier to = say what one doesn't like- the list is so much shorter. Mary Stafford Allston, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:25:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite Dances and Ball Gowns To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19980228012232.28583.rocketmail-AT- attach1.rocketmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ---Mary Stafford wrote: > > Obviously you have never seen Peter Barnes in a ball gown! Believe me- he knows how to choose. :-) Actually I have seen Peter in a ball gown. That's why I qualified the statement. Steve Bilanow from the D.C. area also looks fabulous in a little silver-sequined cocktail dress he shows up in at Buffalo Gap. His wife Joyce says he's the first man she ever went out with who out-glitzed her. Barbara _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free -AT- yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:53:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 19:54:15 -0800 From: Allen and Alisa Dodson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I don't like the Old Mill much, although I know Alisa likes this dance a lot and included it on her BACDS Playford Ball program....However quite apart from the issue of how enjoyable a dance it is, I have a question about the music. Tom Cook uses a recently-composed tune which I confess I don't like much (he mentions it is 'similar to the original', I believe). Does anyone know the original, or know where it can be located? I presume its title is The Merry Salopians since Tom refers to the dance by that name, but I have no idea. Allen Dodson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:01:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:01:48 -0500 From: mls-AT- panix.com (Michael Siemon) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 7:54 PM 2/27/98, Allen and Alisa Dodson wrote: > I don't like the Old Mill much, ....However quite >apart from the issue of how enjoyable a dance it is, I have a question >about the music. I don't know the original, but I must confess that I like both the dance and the current tune. It has a wonderfully relaxed descending sequence figure, enlivened by the glorious flourish of the second ending -- and is unique (?) in its _da capo_ structure (i.e., among the tunes I am familiar with -- Gene: are there others like this?) As to the dance, I'd echo Sharon's comments: the initial move has something of the same playfulness as the sheepskin hey in _Picking up Sticks_ without quite the schematic insistence of *that* dance (nor the to-me-rather-tedious lead up to it... :-)) I think the major problem is that it is *hard* to teach to a set with some dancers not quite expert enough to follow the very non-standard moves -- and by the time that problem is "dealt with" the good dancers may find themselves terminally bored. In any case, dancing with a set that is *not* easy with the moves can be trying. But when your set cooperates, I think it is a *great* dance! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:42:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:42:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite Dances and Ball Gowns To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: 'English Country Dance List' Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Mary Stafford wrote: > > And to cast my vote for some of my favorite dances- From Aberdeen, Hudson Barn, Young Widow, Mr. Isaac's Maggot, Knives & Forkes, Room for Ramblers, Gigue for Genny, Levi Jackson. Absolutely true- far easier to say what one doesn't like- the list is so much shorter. True. I enjoy doing most of the dances listed above, although two of my particular favorites, Trip to Tunbridge & King of Poland, aren't here. But I've never understood why so many people seem to like Levi Jackson. It seems very poorly constructed to me - a number of the moves (particularly the string of ladies' chains) are virtually impossible for even experienced dancers to do in the time allotted. I've also never been particularly fond of Speed the Plough. About men in ball gowns - I agree with Eric Arnold (?) that perhaps one reason they don't wear them more is because no one really designs appropriate ball gowns for men! There are some men I know who wouldn't be able to pick out a good ball gown for themselves, but I know some women of whom the same could be said. (I'd rather wear tails myself.) Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:59:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 03:00:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dawn Culbertson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: What to say when they howl To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: fandango-AT- sprintmail.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Albert A. Blank wrote: > While I agree with Erna Lynn that whistling is hard on the ears (and so > few of us can whistle well) I don't find soft humming objectionable. In > fact, no less an authority than Fried Herman urges dancers to hum or > sing along to internalize the music and get the dance muscles > coordinated with the tune. It doesn't matter whether you are on pitch! > In this, I agree with her. But do it softly so that other dancers can > enjoy their sleep. While I don't mind some whistling or humming, there are times I've danced with people who seem so caught up in it that they seem oblivious to their partners, not to mention the rest of the set. Dawn Culbertson dcculb-AT- peabody.jhu.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 02:37:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 05:35:27 -0500 From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802280537_MC2-34FF-1500-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom Roby wrote: >> >Then there's the idea "When Bad Things Happen to Good Dances." >> I hereby nominate the moment in "Star of David" when the middle couple >> taps the person in front of them on the shoulder as a reminder to >> "get outta the way!". As a teaching device it may have some merit, >> but after at least three such teachings in the Bay Area in the past >> few months, I wonder how many people may be subject to unwanted taps >> at the ball? Or is the consensus that people prefer to be tapped? >> How about it, Colin? Would you mind if the tap became an integral >> part of the dance? "Folk process" after all. I'm afraid I was the one who passed on the idea of the tap on the shoulder, as a suggestion from the dancers the first time I called it in England. No, I certainly don't want the tap to become an integral part of the dance (I've been attacked by the "Folk Process" more than once), and I still haven't actually danced it so I don't know how it feels to be tapped on the shoulder in this context! I do know that it's the most confusing part of the dance, and I'm told it helps some people. Maybe something more subtle like breathing down their neck would be better - but there again, maybe it wouldn't. Sharon - what do you and David think? Colin Hume (who is returning to England today and will be marrying Renata on June 6th) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:47:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:47:59 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: worst of all To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802281547.KAA10343-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bon Voyage, Colin! Re Colin's response to Tom's comment, David & I are 1) consumed with jealousy that Tom's gotten to dance "Star of David" 3 times when we've danced it only once; and 2) divided as to which discomfits us more, the policeman's tap on the shoulder or the heavy breathing down the back of one's neck. Sharon Green (who shall probably mess up dancing Star of David at the Berkeley Ball) >Tom Roby wrote: > > >> >Then there's the idea "When Bad Things Happen to Good Dances." > > >> I hereby nominate the moment in "Star of David" when the middle couple > >> taps the person in front of them on the shoulder as a reminder to > >> "get outta the way!". As a teaching device it may have some merit, > >> but after at least three such teachings in the Bay Area in the past > >> few months, I wonder how many people may be subject to unwanted taps > >> at the ball? Or is the consensus that people prefer to be tapped? > >> How about it, Colin? Would you mind if the tap became an integral > >> part of the dance? "Folk process" after all. > >I'm afraid I was the one who passed on the idea of the tap on the shoulder, as >a suggestion from the dancers the first time I called it in England. No, I >certainly don't want the tap to become an integral part of the dance (I've been >attacked by the "Folk Process" more than once), and I still haven't actually >danced it so I don't know how it feels to be tapped on the shoulder in this >context! I do know that it's the most confusing part of the dance, and I'm >told it helps some people. Maybe something more subtle like breathing down >their neck would be better - but there again, maybe it wouldn't. > >Sharon - what do you and David think? > >Colin Hume >(who is returning to England today and will be marrying Renata on June 6th) > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:36:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:36:45 -0500 (EST) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: What to say when they howl To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I sometimes get strange looks because I vocalize the overtones. But there really is another side. How about, eg., the time the band cut out in the middle of Prince William, and nobody noticed? Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:20:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:00:43 -0800 From: Allen and Alisa Dodson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >At 7:54 PM 2/27/98, Allen and Alisa Dodson wrote: >> I don't like the Old Mill much, ....However quite >>apart from the issue of how enjoyable a dance it is, I have a question >>about the music. > >I don't know the original, but I must confess that I like both the dance and >the current tune. It has a wonderfully relaxed descending sequence figure, >enlivened by the glorious flourish of the second ending -- and is unique (?) >in its _da capo_ structure (i.e., among the tunes I am familiar with -- Gene: >are there others like this?) Well, Michael, I guess one person's glorious flourish is another's boring cliche...Maybe when Gene is at Mendocino this summer he can point out some others I should avoid on these grounds!! I recall playing another tune with a similar structure and remarking on the similarity at the time, but I don't remember what it was; I suspect probably a modern composition rather than a Playford-era tune. Like Mary and Dawn, I find it much easier to come up with dances I really enjoy than bad dances/dances I don't like, and they're more fun to talk about. My shortlist of favorite Playford dances would include Hambleton's Round-O, Jaque Latin, From Aberdeen, Trip to Kilburn, Nonesuch, Black Nag, and maybe my favorite of all, Barham Down. Sally in Her Alley, too. But please, can we include a traditional and/or ceilidh dance or two at this here ball as well? cheers Allen Dodson (who knows Alisa would include the Old Mole, too!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:05:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:05:48 -0500 From: "Roger W. Broseus, CHP, Ph.D." Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: My Best Dance: Perpetual Motion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802281804.NAA26829-AT- ns.kreative.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Best dance, hands (and feet :-) down: "Perpetual Motion." In the short time I've danced, as compared to many on this list, my best ever dance experience was learning and dancing Perpetual Motion as taught by Philippe Callens at Pinewoods this past Summer during EC week. Many things combined to make this my favorite. The dance gets into my bones like no other. The timing and phrasing are superb. The best moment of all: the balance forward just before the cast. This is THE dance that I feel the timing of more than any other: every step and move has it's unique counter part in the music. The interactions with other dancers, of both genders, are just great. No doubt my choice is influenced by the my having had the time of my life during my first trip to Pinewoods and I wondered in advance if I could handle a full week of ECD. The dance is of and by the people who one interacts with and nothing was left to be desired in that department. Many of the fine folk I met and danced with at Pinewoods for the first time are participants in this discussion group, as are old friends. Whoops: such an important and enjoyable part of the experience, not to overlooked: the musicians. Uh, oh, we can't forget the marble machines; the lake and the setting; camaraderie during meals; a cabin in the woods and a stroll thru the woods at night on the way back. Let's see, did I leave anything out? I don't think so: it was "Perpetual Motion" as a Pinewoods experience that made it special. All that having been said, there are many close seconds for me as favorite dances; most have been mentioned by others so I'll not be redundant. -- Roger __ _ _________________ _ ______________________________________________ /__) _,___, _ _ /_) Contra dancing fanatic, English country / \__(_) (_/_(/__/(_ /__). dance aficionado. Superfluous disclaimer: _/_ my opinions are mine. Email: IDo-AT- exist.com ________ (/_______________________________________________________________ ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 11:50:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:50:12 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Country dance weekend with John Ramsay, April 17-19 in Urbana, IL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199802281950.NAA01307-AT- staff1.cso.uiuc.edu> A C O U N T R Y D A N C E W E E K E N D With John Ramsay April 17-19, 1998 Champaign-Urbana, Illinois Friday, April 17 ---------------- Urbana Country Dancers' Contra Dance Phillip's Recreation Center, 505 W. Stoughton, Urbana Caller: Jonathan Sivier Band: The Indian Creek Delta Boys Time: 8:00 - 11:00 Admission: $5.00 Saturday, April 18 ------------------ Country Dance Workshops lead by John Ramsay and Berni Meyer Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana music by members of the Flatland Consort Admission: $2.00/workshop 10:00 - 12:00 : Country Dance as a Social Reflection, an introductory level experience - suitable for beginners and of interest to dancers of all experience levels 2:00 - 4:00 : Country Dancing: Style, Carriage, and Phrasing - improve your dancing skills Evening Dance lead by John Ramsay Illini Student Union, Room 314, 1401 W. Green, Urbana Band: The Flatland Consort Time: 8:00 - 11:00 Admission: $5.00 Sunday, April 19 ---------------- Sunday Brunch with music and dance possible - details available at Saturday events John Ramsay is the former director of the Berea College Country Dancers, a troupe of college students performing Anglo-American dances. Under his direction, from 1974 to 1995, they toured the world dancing in festivals all around the globe. John specializes in several forms of folk dance; English Country Dance, Contra Dance, Appalachian Dance, Morris Dance and Danish Dance. He has taught college level courses in international folk dance and has written concerning the ways in which folk dances reflect their cultures. He is interested in using dance as experiential education. John is now retired and lives in St. Louis with his wife Berni Meyer. There they are members of the St. Louis English Country Dancers and enjoy dancing and teaching others about country dance. Sponsored by the Central Illinois English Country Dancers, the Illini Folk Dance Society and the Urbana Country Dancers For more information contact: Jonathan Sivier - home: 217/359-8225 work: 217/244-1923 Jane Hobgood - 217/328-1708 or check the webpage at: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/weekend.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 21:47:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 00:46:30 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Favorite dances To: "INTERNET:ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU" Message-ID: <199803010047_MC2-350F-EC6E-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message text written by Michael Siemons: >don't know the original, [The Old Mill] but I must confess that I like both the dance and the current tune. It has a wonderfully relaxed descending sequence figure= , enlivened by the glorious flourish of the second ending -- and is unique (?) in its _da capo_ structure (i.e., among the tunes I am familiar with -- Gene: are there others like this?)< "Dunant House Waltz" (aka "Nel's Farewell") comes to mind-- it has the sa= me A1/A2/B/A2 structure as Old Mill, though the A2 ending doesn't have quite= the flourish. It's VERY curious that both dances are for 3 couples in triple time (though Old Mill is not a waltz).... I doubt if Colin Hume or= Roger Davidson had Old Mill in mind when writing the dance and music, respectively. Colin's "Unrequited Love" also has a "da capo" tune with a= spectacular coda for the final round... Can't think of any others at the moment. Gene