Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:29:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:39:07 +1000 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706012230.IAA09354-AT- darth.netcon.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Shoot, I got to start checking where I sending these things - that was ment to be an aside - not a stage whisper! Sorry. This is Martin Hungerford, aka Martin Jongleur, "They're not pagans, Frank. Everyone's wearing clothes" Major Burns of M*A*S*H ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 15:29:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 08:39:16 +1000 From: Martin Hungerford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Sweet (was re: Barnes) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706012230.IAA09363-AT- darth.netcon.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >Subject: Re: Barnes >Sent: 30/5/97 8:44 PM >Received: 1/6/97 10:59 AM >From: Philippe Callens, philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be >Reply-To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU >To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > >Martin Hungerford wrote: > >"May I ask for your opinion of Jeremy Barlow's "Broadside Band" CDs? I >think they're too sweet for dance music but I'm fascinated to hear what >a self-confessed "authenticity nut" thinks off them". > >I'd like to answer this question, too (I don't think I am a authenticity >nut, but let other people decide that). I don't feel Jeremy Barlow's >music is too sweet. As I feel it, "sweet" is not the word that comes in >my mind when I listen to his recordings. > >I agree though that not everything is suitable for modern day practice >ECD (differing tempi, repeats, etc.), but some recordings are really >good. I use Portsmouth (for Pat Shaw's interpretation), Mad Robin and a >few others. Also, it is a matter of taste and/or experience. At the >moment, I am leading a series of nine evenings of Playford dancing for a >group of historical dancers. And they like that sort of playing a lot. > >Philippe Callens > I started this thread in error, but it does seem to have been picked up, so I thought I would make my position clear. I am not an "authenticity nut". I play whistles, recorders and Galician Pipes. It was the pipes which got me into two dance bands "Death by Dancing" and the "Loud Band". Both of these were bands for Playford, or earlier, dances. The Loud Band never used amplification and our line-up used shawms, pipes, cornets and drums. Death by Dancing used lots of amps and was basically a rock band playing early music (pipes, sax, shawm, tenor banjo, mandolin, button-box, bass and drums). This might suggest why I found Barlow "sweet". I like it, but would not like to play in that style to a hall full of dancers. I asked my original question (privately, I thought!) of some-one who I thought might be able to give me a different (and perhaps more mainline) view of this style of music. This is Martin Hungerford, aka Martin Jongleur, aka Martin o' Lyos OL (Called the Juggler) Piper, Juggler, Stiltwalker, Unicyclist, Singer, Firebug, Idiot ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 16:26:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 19:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD webpages To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706012327.TAA16770-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:04 PM 5/30/97 -0500, you wrote: > Is there a site with links to ECD webpages. I know the CDSS page has >some. However there seems to be many contra dance pages, but very few ECD >pages. I've finally gotten around to setting up a webpage for the Central >Illinois English Country Dancers and would like to have it referenced from >the appropriate location(s). The URL is >http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier/ciecd/ciecd.html Dear Jonathan: The site I automatically turn to is the New England Folk Festival's page. http://www.neffa.org/~neffa You can get to over 50 ECD groups via that site, plus sites for bands, callers, other dance types, etc. A great service to the dance community. And they're actively looking for additional links. yahoo.com also has links to various country dance sites--I don't know how to get oneself listed by them. Good luck! Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:27:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 01:27:25 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Peter Barnes responds on chords To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IJKV2OSRK4A74SKS-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- Peter is now a subscriber to the ECD list, and should see any responses this generates. The rest is forwarded from him: ========================================================================== (SUBJECT: "Barnes 95" and chords) Several people have forwarded to me copies of a posting by Paul Stamler critical of the chord choices in my publication "English Country Dance Tunes". I am loath to respond to yet another variant of the endless "traditional vs. progressive" type of argument that entertains Internet newsgroups fruitlessly for weeks, but I did feel compelled to make a few points. First, I have never laid claim to any sort of stylistic authenticity or infallibility. I remember being stunned a few weeks ago when I overheard someone say "You shouldn't play that chord, it's not in 'Barnes'!" The omnipresent urge people have to regard published sources as law always drives me crazy. Harmonic choices are such an obvious case of personal preference that I would never present my harmonizations as "the right ones". I had thought I made my views on such matters clear in my introductions: (from the present book) "Please note that the suggested chords are just that - suggestions. Alternate chord ideas appear in parentheses." (from the first edition) "Remember that chordings are always very much matters of personal taste; if something doesn't work for you then try something else, but please don't criticize what you find in this book unless it's very obviously a misprint." If Mr. Stamler finds my chord choices "eccentric", then he is encouraged to make up his own, with my blessings. Lord knows, I might find his chord choices staid, but he's free to play in whatever style he wishes. My point is this: he's right when he says that my chords are only a starting point - that's all I ever intended for them to be. I must say, however, that I am also not without some experience in this area, and furthermore took care to enclose the more modernistic chords in parentheses, emphasizing their optional usage. Apart from errors, I stand by the appropriateness and usefulness of my work for all levels of players. As regards Pat Shaw, I am pleased for Mr. Stamler that he has never found a single better chord for any of Pat's tunes than the ones Pat actually wrote. Personally, I find chordings which I like better all the time. Would Pat Shaw like them better? I don't know. Should I care? I drew on my 20 years of experience as a professional dance musician to come up with chords I believed dance musicians would find workable, enjoyable and, in many instances, less contrived. The tie-in to the endless debates over tradition comes in with Mr. Stamler's assertion that there is an "implicit idiom" to the music in the book, an idiom in which my chords and his ears "clash so badly". I would love to see a codification of this implicit idiom, which encompasses over three centuries, tunes from Nonesuch to The American Husband, and interpreters from Early Music afficionados through Bare Necessities to Pyewackett and Gas Mark Five. The way Americans play on this music is vastly different (and generally much more conservative) from the way most English bands play it. Mr. Stamler says that his band puts in "stylistic touches that come from later". Where does he draw the line on such touches? Where will he draw the line ten years and nine hundred renditions of "Fandango" later? He has a conception of the inherent boundaries of acceptable stylistic variation. Who doesn't? Personally I draw the line at trap sets and a brass section. So shall I chord for Mr. Stamler's sensibilities, or for my own? For my conception of the needs of beginners, or for rhythm players who might be looking for ideas? Ultimately, of course, I tried to chart a middle ground through all of these needs, and, IMnsHO, did a fairly decent job of it. Peter Barnes P.S. I am always the first to admit to the presence of errors in my books, indeed, I actively encourage people to inform me of them. Any first edition (and with the complete reworking of English Country Dance Tunes, it really was a first edition) has errors, anything else would be a small miracle. I have searched in vain for the "Bulgarian" flavored chording Mr. Stamler has mentioned, but to no avail, nor is such a chordal approach one I ever use. If he takes as gospel a chord which a more charitable player would recognize as an error, small wonder he thinks my harmonic sense odd. If I have made an error of this sort, it would most likely have been corrected in my second printing of last July. An ongoing list of these errata appear at my nascent website at www1.usa1.com/iolair/errata.htm. P.B. =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 05:28:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 14:31:45 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706021229.OAA12586-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Brad Foster wrote: > Here are some helpful hints I've picked up/developed for Newcastle's last > figure: > > I start my teaching with the end of the dance (the lines, etc), by asking > everyone circle 1/2 way and then asking the sides to pull into the middle > and heads face partner to make the two lines of four facing the side walls > (in other words putting everyone into the position they would be in after > the last arm left). > > Lines fall back, come forward, turn single is as stated. Then, to get the > lines crossing over into the new orientation, I point out that the middles > are standing next to their original partner but facing someone else across > the set. Before having them cross, I tell them that they will cross and > immediately turn the easy way to face their original partner. I have the > middles do this first, then have the ends cross and move in to the gap > between the others. My way I picked up from a caller in the Netherlands: When arming left for the second time I instruct the men to put that dancer (the original corner) on their left and make lines up and down the hall. Then after the fall back, turn single and cross over I instruct the men to put the same dancer on their right. I even call it that way. Antony Heywood The Netherlands ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 10:21:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 13:19:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Hoorah! Fried's Here! To: ECD Message-ID: <970602171930_101454.633_IHP58-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Yes, at last Fried's arrived in England -I've heard such a lot about her - and now I'm going to meet her - she's doing a day of dance at Neston on the Wirral this weekend! - Can't stop now - my partner's picking me up in about 10 minutes - and we've about 150 miles to go! - Tell you all about it when I get back. Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 19:48:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 21:49:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford Ball, central Illinois, 6/7 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706030249.VAA26520-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> The Central Illinois English Country Dancers Invite You To An E N G L I S H C O U N T R Y D A N C E P L A Y F O R D B A L L The Central Illinois English Country Dancers will be holding their second annual Playford Ball on Saturday, June 7, 1997. The dance will be held at the Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL, on the campus of the University of Illinois. There will be a review of the evening's dances from 7:00 to 8:00, followed by the Ball from 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Fans and finery are encouraged. There will be a $5.00 suggested donation to help cover the cost of the Ball. All lovers of English Country dance and music are welcome. Dances Lead By: Susan Burt, Jane Hobgood and Jonathan Sivier Music Provided By: The Flatland Consort Dance Review: 7:00 p.m. Playford Ball: 8:00 to 11:00 p.m. Date: Saturday, June 7, 1997 Location: Channing-Murray Foundation, 1209 W. Oregon, Urbana, IL Suggested Donation: $5.00 Here is the list of dances we will be doing: A Grand March The Corporation Dargason Dublin Bay Grimstock Heartsease Hole In The Wall, Geud Man of Ballangigh, Queen's Jig (medley) Hunsdon House Juice of Barley Mad Robin Newcastle Picking Up Sticks Waltz Country Dance There will be refreshments at the break and a party following the dance. For further information contact Jonathan Sivier (j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu) at 217/359-8225 or Jane Hobgood at 217/328-1708. Thanks for the support of the Champaign Park District and the Urbana Country Dancers. For those who are interested, the Urbana Country Dancers will be holding a contra dance on Friday, June 6, from 8 to 11 p.m. at the Phillip's Recreation Center, 505 W. Stoughton in Urbana. Deborah Hyland from St. Louis will be calling and The Indian Creek Delta Boys from Charleston will be playing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 05:32:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 08:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Newcastle To: ECD list Message-ID: <970604123014_74031.77_BHT6-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Instead of 'putting the lady on the left after the arming left', I suggest that the lady - for a moment just before the END of that arm left - clasps both hands, creating a loop, and then continues turning to her left (in place) until her right arm is linked with the man's left arm and they are both facing the center of the set. Works like a charm. Hanny Budnick, Philadelphia, PA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 22:12:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 01:13:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970605011345_-1464336541-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> Two questions to ponder: 1. Do you have the impression that the quality of dancing in your location has gone down over recent years (e.g., less awareness of timing, less sense of "style," whatever that may mean, less solid knowledge of basic repertoire, lacking basic skills like ranting, ...)? 2. Is there any correlation between places where there is a perception that quality has decreased, and a pattern of having a number of different callers during the year rather than one primary caller (with or without apprentices or associates)? My hypothesis-without-data, obviously, is that there is a correlation. The argument has some face validity - e.g., when each caller is calling only one session or a small number like four weeks, there may be a premium on getting in one's own favorites rather than doing one's part to convey basic repertoire - which might lead to a decline in dances in common with others, and not having done any set of dances long enough to pick up on the nuances that may be there; there may be a premium on encouraging "fun" rather than learning style, since one wants to be popular and be asked back again or get more weeks the next year - in my experience, teaching "style," even if done well, requires taking time away from "just dancing" (though IMHO the result is worthwhile) and may not be appreciated in the short run. So, in general, there may be more emphasis on immediate enjoyment rather than building long-term skills and repertoire. If in fact there is a wider trend to have a number of callers (and I don't know if there is), it may reflect some of the success of the past - a previous generation of dancers has now reached the point where they want to contribute and move to the next level of participation in dancing, which is seen to be calling (instead of "only" being expert dancers). There is also the widely-commented on time pressure on most people these days, so that it may be harder for any one person to take on the responsibility for running a whole program year round, as I believe leaders in many of the major centers did in the past. Any data? Nay-sayers? Amplification ...? David Chandler ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 00:12:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 03:12:15 -0400 (EDT) From: webatcheler-AT- juno.com (Wayne Batcheler) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970605.031210.6999.9.webatcheler-AT- juno.com> References: <970605011345_-1464336541-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> On Thu, 05 Jun 1997 01:13:46 -0400 (EDT) David Chandle writes: >Two questions to ponder: >1. Do you have the impression that the quality of dancing in your >location has gone down over recent years (e.g., less awareness of timing, less >sense of "style," whatever that may mean, less solid knowledge of basic >repertoire, lacking basic skills like ranting, ...)? > >2. Is there any correlation between places where there is a perception >that quality has decreased, and a pattern of having a number of different >callers during the year rather than one primary caller (with or without >apprentices or associates)? My hypothesis-without-data, obviously, is that >there is a correlation..... Your unstated premise is that there **has** been a "decline in quality." Where have you noticed this? When did you first notice it? How would you measure it objectively? Wayne Batcheler New York ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 04:19:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:21:07 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: DECLINE? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 01:13:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970605011345_-1464336541-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> Two questions to ponder: 1. Do you have the impression that the quality of dancing in your location has gone down over recent years (e.g., less awareness of timing, less sense of "style," whatever that may mean, less solid knowledge of basic repertoire, lacking basic skills like ranting, ...)? 2. Is there any correlation between places where there is a perception that quality has decreased, and a pattern of having a number of different callers during the year rather than one primary caller (with or without apprentices or associates)? My hypothesis-without-data, obviously, is that there is a correlation. The argument has some face validity - e.g., when each caller is calling only one session or a small number like four weeks, there may be a premium on getting in one's own favorites rather than doing one's part to convey basic repertoire - which might lead to a decline in dances in common with others, and not having done any set of dances long enough to pick up on the nuances that may be there; there may be a premium on encouraging "fun" rather than learning style, since one wants to be popular and be asked back again or get more weeks the next year - in my experience, teaching "style," even if done well, requires taking time away from "just dancing" (though IMHO the result is worthwhile) and may not be appreciated in the short run. So, in general, there may be more emphasis on immediate enjoyment rather than building long-term skills and repertoire. If in fact there is a wider trend to have a number of callers (and I don't know if there is), it may reflect some of the success of the past - a previous generation of dancers has now reached the point where they want to contribute and move to the next level of participation in dancing, which is seen to be calling (instead of "only" being expert dancers). There is also the widely-commented on time pressure on most people these days, so that it may be harder for any one person to take on the responsibility for running a whole program year round, as I believe leaders in many of the major centers did in the past. Any data? Nay-sayers? Amplification ...? David Chandler ------------------------------------------ THIS IS A REPLY TO THE ABOVE MESSAGE SUBJECT OF THE REPLY: DECLINE?-REPLY ------------------------------------------ re: quality: david et al.: time for the flame-proof underwear. i agree at least somewhat with david's premise. we're building our group in baltimore; many of the more experienced dancers (when i use the word Older, i don't mean age, ok?) have moved out of the area or on to different things. when i started 10 years ago, we had 4 callers and barely 20 regular dancers. we now have many more callers (there are 7 callers scheduled in 9 weeks this summer), and a lot of semi-regular dancers. a lot of these dancers came via different routes from the older ones, i suspect, including at least 3 who came as a result of a demo that was done one night at an Emma showing. they're definitely out to have a good time. i don't think the callers are trying to "be popular," though. they're trying to make the dance accessible to these new people without boring the older dancers to death by doing the same easy dances over and over. it's a tough call, and one that's been discussed quite a bit lately, at least by moi. how to make the dancing attractive to new folks, who always want instant gratification (didn't we?). how to provide challenge for experienced dancers. how to grow as callers. i do agree that the more callers, NOT the merrier. each has an "agenda," or their own favorites they need to work in. we've had a modus operandi, which has been followed off and on for years, of repeating a few dances (caller's choice) from the previous week, and trying to include "repertoire" dances as a matter of course. we've also had a "dance of the month" program, where a different dance is introduced each month, and calling goes from heavy teaching to talk-through over the 4 weeks. it's been useful; for ex., we recently did hambleton's round o because it's no longer done often. we're currently doing fandango, a good choice since it's fairly easy to get folks through, and they can really get a sense of accomplishment. we also throw the tougher ball dances in there so that folks really get a chance to learn them well. oops, i guess that's off the track. at any rate, i really do feel that having too many callers, no matter how good, dilutes the teaching somewhat, and i'm trying to limit the number a bit in baltimore. makes it hard to accommodate the "almost local" callers from philly and such places, but i hope it will provide more continuity to our group. i'm sure the baltimore callers could elucidate on the topic. maybe they will. i'm open to suggestions and hints (since i'm now booking the dance), and welcome any ideas to strengthen our group. sharon "yes, i DO run at the mouth in person" mckinley, and an official bookie for BFMS, but not for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 06:14:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 08:14:29 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970605081429.293f-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> As for the 'decline in dancing,' a number of factors seem apparent. 1.) As your awareness of dancing and your growth in what dancing 'ought' to be, you become sensitive to these factors, timing, etc. You didn't notice them while learning, too busy. But now that the primary learning phase is complete, the 'what next' phase includes looking at, judging, reaching for the optimum and asking the age old question, "I can, why can't you?" 2.) The reasong 'they' can't is always with us. 'They' are those that are newer at it than you, don't have all the elements of growth you have, are struggling to understand a sequence of figures when they're not too sure what the current one is, much less how to do it. 3.) You may be right about the different callers, each one inherently trusting the emphasis of fundamentals to other callers or their assumption that others have done so, and completely at that. As a long time music teacher (18 years) turned librarian, I remember with great joy Genny Shimer's first day of advanced English at Berea each year. She would run us through some medium-level longways, "Mr. isaac's Maggot" comes to mind as one of many. Then she would take it apart, almost figure by figure, as she emphasized and demonstrated and exasperated at us about fundamentals: This is what you are trying to do and why. John Forbes/Baker U (Who will enjoy his 25th year on the Berea Christmas School Staff this December, 1997) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:38:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:19:57 -0500 (EST) From: judy_gordon-AT- mcgraw-hill.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706051439.AA14972-AT- interlock.mgh.com> Boy David, you're going to have us burning up the wires! 1. Decline of quality and growing numbers The English country dance community in New York "A.A." (after New York Times article linking us to the dances of Emma - I'm sure many of you have heard about that) has faced a challenge this spring, both the teachers and dancers. With the huge influx of beginners there has been a noticable drop in the quality of dancing. Most of the new arrivals (many already enthusiasts) are totally focused on surviving the dance and getting the track correctly, and most of the experienced dancers, who have, with much patience and good spirits, spent many evenings coaching their way up and down the set, can't dance with their accustomed style and grace because of these other distractions. And on most nights, the numbers of newer folks have generally equalled the numbers of the old regulars. While the teachers during this time have also tried to bring out style points and what makes certain dances special, our main goal has been to integrate these newcomers into our regular crowd, and hook them so that they return for more English dancing in the fall. The alternative would have been English country dancing as it was B.A. (before article), a community that was dedicated, but small. As the weeks have gone on, I have begun to pick up a sense of frustration from some of the experienced dancers, that "I've danced with new partners all night! I want to do at least one dance with someone who knows how." To address this, in the fall, we hope to focus more on what we will define as a basic repertoire of dances that the various teachers will include in their programs throughout the next dancing year so we repeat each of these dances a number of times. We very much hope we can raise the general level of dancing next year this way, while still leaving room in our programs to include some personal choices. 2. Decline of quality and a number of different callers Despite all the above, I feel that any decline in the quality of English country dancing is far less than the decline of quality I have observed in the N.Y. contra dance scene (some dancers who have danced in N.Y. for more years than I have may disagree). This is because, although we do have a rotation of teachers, we do get scheduled for three- or four-week series. When possible, we try to attend the evenings that are being taught by the other teachers. We keep track of our programs and exchange information so we have the opportunity to build on each other's programs, repeat dances someone else has done, or return to something that hasn't been done in several months. And we are aware of the needs of the crowd and therefore, can consider this in our programming. Another, but related point: do we do enough, in our calendars/schedules, to explain that in our English country dance sessions we plan to work on dancing skills rather than just holding a dance? That would make it easier to stick to our style guns. Yonina Gordon ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Decline? Author: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU at spccnode Date: 6/5/97 8:15 AM Two questions to ponder: 1. Do you have the impression that the quality of dancing in your location has gone down over recent years (e.g., less awareness of timing, less sense of "style," whatever that may mean, less solid knowledge of basic repertoire, lacking basic skills like ranting, ...)? 2. Is there any correlation between places where there is a perception that quality has decreased, and a pattern of having a number of different callers during the year rather than one primary caller (with or without apprentices or associates)? My hypothesis-without-data, obviously, is that there is a correlation. The argument has some face validity - e.g., when each caller is calling only one session or a small number like four weeks, there may be a premium on getting in one's own favorites rather than doing one's part to convey basic repertoire - which might lead to a decline in dances in common with others, and not having done any set of dances long enough to pick up on the nuances that may be there; there may be a premium on encouraging "fun" rather than learning style, since one wants to be popular and be asked back again or get more weeks the next year - in my experience, teaching "style," even if done well, requires taking time away from "just dancing" (though IMHO the result is worthwhile) and may not be appreciated in the short run. So, in general, there may be more emphasis on immediate enjoyment rather than building long-term skills and repertoire. If in fact there is a wider trend to have a number of callers (and I don't know if there is), it may reflect some of the success of the past - a previous generation of dancers has now reached the point where they want to contribute and move to the next level of participation in dancing, which is seen to be calling (instead of "only" being expert dancers). There is also the widely-commented on time pressure on most people these days, so that it may be harder for any one person to take on the responsibility for running a whole program year round, as I believe leaders in many of the major centers did in the past. Any data? Nay-sayers? Amplification ...? David Chandler ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 07:48:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:49:30 -0400 (EDT) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706051449.KAA26319-AT- pike.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Two questions to ponder: >1. Do you have the impression that the quality of dancing in your location >has gone down over recent years (e.g., less awareness of timing, less sense >of "style," whatever that may mean, less solid knowledge of basic repertoire, >lacking basic skills like ranting, ...)? Dear David, What I have noticed is that the -quantity- of good dancers has remained static, and we always seem to be the teachers for the newcomers or the "perpetual beginners". This has been bemoaned in past posts. The frustration is never with the newcomers, but with those who insist on dancing at a very basic newcomer level, refuse to learn at formal classes, and keep coming to the regular dances, where they always seem to be in the middle of the roadblocks. My hope has always been that the dance community would grow at our regular monday night dance in Amherst, MA, and that the populations of dancers would grow proportionally, at least. The experienced crowd now consists of the organizing committee, including our two callers, and one or two who show up for the dances only very sporadically, as they also do morris and other ritual dancing. They get exasperated and either stick to the ritual dances, or find a dance further away. The perpetual question is: How do we deal with those who will not, cannot, or refuse to learn? We now have two weekend dances per month which seem to draw a greater crowd, and better dancers. three of our organizing committee members have also formed a twice-a-year "Experienced Dance", which is NOT BY INVITATION ONLY. The format of the dance is just a bit more challenging, and the dancers who have shown up know that they are expected to know. >2. Is there any correlation between places where there is a perception that >quality has decreased, and a pattern of having a number of different callers >during the year rather than one primary caller (with or without apprentices >or associates)? I really have not seen this. Quality of the dance seems to be directly tied to the will of the dancers, the passion for English Country Dancing as one of the focal points in their lives, and the desire to be better at what they do. Kevin "Voted President For Life One Year In A Row" Cooke Amherst Area English Country Dancers ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 10:42:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970605134318_742167878-AT- emout08.mail.aol.com> IMHO the overall quality of Baltimore's English dances has dramatically improved in the past several years, in no small measure because of the increased variety of teaching, with various points of view, each caller with his or her own background, etc. Other factors have been improvement in the music, the piano itself and the hall, as well as more attention from the Folk Music Society Board to the English dance community. New dancers have come and often become regulars. The dance has grown and is close to being financially self-supporting. (It would be totally self-supporting if we did not need to pay for a security guard.) We work on "quality" with a "Dance-of-the-Month" series, a free monthly beginner workshop and occasional more intensive beginner workshop series, but usually "style points" are kept to a minimum. If by "quality" David means everyone doing each dance in one caller's idea of perfect style, then we have perhaps failed to measure up, but I would not trade our Monday night dance as it is now for what would necessarily be a much smaller, and much stuffier dance. --Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 11:58:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:59:14 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: DIFFERENT STROKES To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN re: carl's view of balmer: viva la difference˙ it's probably a very good thing that we don't all think alike, or we'd sure get in a rut, wouldn't we? sharon "as different as they come" mckinley, and the usual blah blah blah disclaimer ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:22:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 19:48:12 +0000 From: Raymond Wright Subject: Ceilidh Near Gloucester U.K .June 14th To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <76-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk> In England Barn Dance is another term for a Ceilidh and I would like to let you know of a Barn Dance that is to take place on Saturday June 14th. Approx 4 miles south of Gloucester lies Quedgeley on the B4008 and very near the A38 and M5. In the Village Hall will be a dance commencing at 8.00 pm. The Band is to be Penny Reel and the Callers will be Raymond Wright and Tim Gollins. Admission 4.00 Adults and 1.00 for Children under 18 No programme of dances has been decided upon although the emphasis will upon English Country Dance both traditional and modern. It is true to say though that the motto of a Ceilidh is "If it fits use it!" and I hope that the dance can live up to that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Raymond Wright EMail raymond-AT- belldans.demon.co.uk | | Morris Dancer, Bell-Ringer, English Country Dancer and Dance Caller --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 13:34:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706052035.QAA03905-AT- pike.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > Another, but related point: do we do enough, in our > calendars/schedules, to explain that in our English country dance > sessions we plan to work on dancing skills rather than just holding a > dance? That would make it easier to stick to our style guns. > > Yonina Gordon > Dear Dancers, YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly what we need! Thank you sooooooooooo much for the insight. This may be what the dancers need in order to think more and see that this is something that some of us are serious about. Kevin Cooke Amherst Area English Country Dancers ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:51:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 17:50:52 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: New Haven Summer Dances To: ECD discussion list Message-ID: Subject: Time: 6:23 PM OFFICE MEMO New Haven Summer Dances Date: 6/5/97 Spring is usually considered a time of rejoicing, what with the increasing period of daylight, the warm days (they'll be here anytime now), the scent of flowers beginning to bloom, the expectation of summer vacations. In New Haven however, this is a time of bleakness and despair. That is because the New Haven English Dance, graced with the presence of Christine Helwig caller, and music by Marshall Baron and her dance band workshop only runs to the beginning of May. By mid-June, public health facilities are overloaded with depressed, confused individuals, wandering around in a daze of EDWS (English Dance Withdrawal Syndrome). Thus, this year, solely as a Public Service, in order to reduce this threat to public health and well-being, the New Haven Country Dancers, the group which holds the regular contra dance in this area is holding three Emergency English Dances this summer (the fact that I am also the booking agent for this group is of course a complete and total coincidence). These dances will take on Friday evenings June 13, July 11, July 25, at the Branford Community Center, 46 Church St., Branford, CT The Branford Center is a lovely hall, with an excellent wood floor, full-length windows and ceiling fans. Directions below. Calling & teaching will be by Helen Davenport (director of Reel Nutmeg) with music by the Summer Playford Players which includes Paul McGuire, Norb Spencer, Leah Barkan, George Davis and possible unannounced others. Dancing will be 8:00-11:00 p.m., admission $7.00. Because we are hoping to use this as an opportunity to recruit new dancers, these dances will be preceded by a Basics Workshop at 7:30 p.m. This makes it the perfect opportunity to bring all those friends who've been saying they'll try it sometime, but are intimidated by the idea of just jumping in. Experienced dancers are strongly encouraged to come for the workshop and act as ringers to help out newcomers. As a reward for promptness, the very first dance at 8:00 p.m. will be a no-walk-through Playford favorite. On June 13 this will be "Fandango". Obviously we would very much like to have any members of this list, or friends, kin etc., within a reasonable distance to come join what we hope will be not only a lovely dance, but the start of an ongoing tradition. If further information is desired, you may email me directly at barbara.ruth-AT- yale.edu You may all now return to your regularly scheduled discussion of the decline of Country Dancing as we know it. *Directions to Branford Community Center: I 95 to Exit 54 (Cedar St. exit) Head toward Branford Center, staying on Cedar St. (crossing Rt. 1) until it ends at Main St. Take a left but get immediately into the far right-hand lane. Main St. forks very shortly after, into Main and South Main. Stay with the right fork. Go right at the first street which is Eades and ends just before the parking lot behind the Community Center. Left and then immediately right into the lot. Dance is on the 2nd floor. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 06:54:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 09:55:23 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: DIFFERENT STROKES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970606095518_1653473623-AT- emout01.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 6/6/97 10:23:28 AM, you wrote: << re: carl's view of balmer: viva la differencey it's probably a very good thing that we don't all think alike, or we'd sure get in a rut, wouldn't we? sharon "as different as they come" mckinley, and the usual blah blah blah disclaimer ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- From owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Thu Jun 5 15:01:52 1997 Return-Path: Received: from ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu (SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.33.14]) by mrin41.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id PAA26883; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:01:47 -0400 (EDT) X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Sender: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 14:59:14 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: DIFFERENT STROKES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> " re: carl's view of balmer: viva la differencey it's probably a very good thing that we don't all think alike, or we'd sure get in a rut, wouldn't we? sharon "as different as they come" mckinley, and the usual blah blah blah disclaimer" Is Sharon agreeing or disagreeing with me? --Carl ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 07:51:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:53:02 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970606105100_1342680569-AT- emout17.mail.aol.com> I'm as serious about English dancing as anyone, but what's wrong with "just holding a dance"? Personally I'd rather spend my Monday evenings doing English dancing, and leave most of the teaching to workshops. If there's one thing that reliably turns off potential lifelong ECD enthusiasts, it's spending 15 minutes standing around listening to teaching, and then dancing for 90 seconds. Nothing will do more to keep your dances small than this, if that's what you want. --Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 08:27:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:29:28 -0400 (EDT) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706061529.LAA25239-AT- pike.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I'm as serious about English dancing as anyone, but what's wrong with "just >holding a dance"? Personally I'd rather spend my Monday evenings doing >English dancing, and leave most of the teaching to workshops. If there's one >thing that reliably turns off potential lifelong ECD enthusiasts, it's >spending 15 minutes standing around listening to teaching, and then dancing >for 90 seconds. Nothing will do more to keep your dances small than this, if >that's what you want. >--Carl Friedman In reply, I would like to suggest that Carl didn't understand the description of our dance in Amherst. Teaching is part of the dance evening, even if it just means a walk-through with demonstrations for newcomers. Much of the night IS spent interrupting the dance because of a "roadblock" down the line who is disrupting the dance. That roadblock, historically, is someone who has been coming to the dances regularly for a year or more. The only action possible to fix this is to ask that that person not come to the dance, which is open to the general public, until they learn the dances sufficiently well to prevent problems. The fault with this is the old "How do I get experience if I can't get hired, and how can I get hired without experience" conundrum. We are the community's available English Country Dance, with a passion for dancing, music to die for, and callers of national acclaim. The tough decision is - Do we dis-invite those who will not learn, in hopes of attracting back those who know? How do we get the dance community to grow in this area when those who come to the dance will not, or cannot, learn? Kevin Cooke Speaking for himself, and President for Life until the rest of the Committee decides to can him. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 10:48:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:49:28 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970606134925_1653492081-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> From what I can tell, the problem of "EB's" - experienced beginners - is rather universal in the dance world. Sounds like Amherst has it worse than most. (Though I'm a Williams grad, I'll refrain from certain comments.) I'd love to hear a solution. I suspect that relief from "roadblocks" is going to come from the other dancers in line rather than from the teachers and organizers. --Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 11:27:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:29:07 -0400 (EDT) From: webatcheler-AT- juno.com (Wayne Batcheler) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970606.142841.6999.0.webatcheler-AT- juno.com> References: <970606134925_1653492081-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> On Fri, 06 Jun 1997 13:49:28 -0400 (EDT) CF1125-AT- aol.com writes: >From what I can tell, the problem of "EB's" - experienced beginners - >is rather universal in the dance world. Sounds like Amherst has it worse >than most. (Though I'm a Williams grad, I'll refrain from certain >comments.) I'd love to hear a solution. I suspect that relief from >"roadblocks" is going to come from the other dancers in line rather than >from the teachers and organizers. When I encounter such a "roadblock," I find it is sometimes easier for my partner and I to dance around the problem than try to fix it. In other words, just keep dancing, with "ghosts" if necessary. Likewise, when I have a lapse I try to make my way as unobtrusively as possible to the place I should be in for the beginning of the next figure. Part of the enjoyment of dancing, however, is to accommodate different styles up and down the line. I wonder whether this was any different during the 1650-1750 "heyday" of ECD. Wayne Batcheler New York ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 14:33:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:31:46 -0600 (MDT) From: deaun moulton Subject: Re: DECLINE? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 5 Jun 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > an Emma showing. they're definitely out to have a good time. i > don't think the callers are trying to "be popular," though. > they're trying to make the dance accessible to these new people > without boring the older dancers to death by doing the same easy > dances over and over. An old professor of mine always said (over and over and over again) that it never hurt to go back to basics. All the flourishes in the world were simply pretentious if they didn't embellish solid foundations. You don't have to TELL people that you're trying to improve their skills, just do the basics over and over again. (Of course, you don't have to do the same dances...) One caller I know often structures her dance programs around one or two figures. By the time the evening is done, everyone's practice is better. Think of how many interesting programs can be written around figure 8's (half, whole, double and heys.) Can't we do several things at once. If we do simple dances to teach newcomers the basics, can't we, at the same time, use the same dances to teach more experienced dancers style points and for those who just simply can't stand to do Indian Queen one more time, can't we use this time for them to catch up with their friends on the sidelines? Then, when the more complicated dances come up, the experts can dance well, the intermediates can practice and if they want, the newcomers can catch up with their friends. Some of my best regular dance evenings have been those where the caller has taught dances but not tried to educate dancers. > repeating a few dances (caller's choice) from the previous week, I like this idea very much. I think that regular dances should work out a repretoire (sp?). On the other hand, I know of one monthly dance that has guest callers each time and it is generally wonderful. It has a reputation for good callers and good music, so it gets a good crowd of people. It is also beginner friendly. Lots of good dancers on the floor to move those "roadblocks" along. Granted, I have a good deal of patience with "roadblocks". But then, I've been known to be a pothole every now and then. deaun moulton deaun-AT- unm.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:02:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 18:02:46 -0400 (EDT) From: jbeer-AT- juno.com (Jennifer Beer) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970606.180214.13935.7.jbeer-AT- juno.com> References: <199705301242.IAA07643-AT- waters.sanders.lockheed.com> About teaching figures & Picking Up Sticks... Old thread, sorry. I only log in every once in a while to this list--usually when work gets particularly pressing.... For Picking Up Sticks, I once had a momentary inspiration which I've used ever since on the "zippers" figure (renamed because I think it is more like zipping and unzipping than shoelacing.) Ask 1M, 2W, 3M to raise their hands. They are "Team A." The others are "Team B" Have Team A change places, starting with top person. Then Team B.... etc. It is much easier to call-- "Team B!" and sometimes people get into being teams. Also it is easier to fix -- the first time I taught it this way, I heard a dancer say "Team B go again!" when A went twice by mistake, and they straightened it out themselves with no confusion. -------- If anyone's in the mood for a more knotty thread, I had a (polite) argument with another caller last week about teaching / calling to 1st man as default, a tradition that I'd for one would like to see consigned to history ... One thing nice about the "Team A" approach is that it helps people conceptualize the figure, and it addresses the all the dancers who move in one inclusive phrase because it doesn't require gender / couple number identification. I'm also convinced that there's a detour of information when a teacher says "cast left!" and the woman who is mirroring her partner has to process this command in mirror image form and cast right. What could be voice--->muscle movement becomes voice--->rational thought process(oh, I have to turn right)---->command to self(cast right! )--->muscle movement. Plus, I don't think we want dancers to feel socially or officially invisible or secondary on the dance floor. --Jenny Beer jbeer-AT- voicenet.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:25:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 06 Jun 1997 15:25:33 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IJR90N1HW2A7357A-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jenny wrote -- [good stuff about teaching 'Picking Up Sticks', which I've never even tried to do, but will look out for, and then:] If anyone's in the mood for a more knotty thread, I had a (polite) argument with another caller last week about teaching / calling to 1st man as default, a tradition that I'd for one would like to see consigned to history ... I (almost completely) agree. I can't think of any reason to ever call just to the first man without identifying him, and requiring the women to translate that call into what they have to do. If the first couple both cast down, the call should be "first couple cast down", not "cast left". What possible benefit can accrue from doing it the other way? (I'm sometimes slightly inclined to hold back from saying 'cast up' because it's an old expression meaning 'vomit', as in 'cast up by the tide'. But this usually doesn't stop me unless I'm calling Regency rather than general ECD.) I generally prefer to use words that suggest everyone is an actor, rather than just being acted upon, but it is sometimes difficult. I have found it surprisingly difficult to teach 'roll away with a half sashay' (which CDM describes as, I think, 'men bring the left-hand girl to their right-hand side') in a way that isn't insanely verbose and doesn't suggest the women being passive. Sometimes nice gender-neutral calls just don't work for some people. I think of the beginning of "Hambleton's Round-O" as "1s cast to middle place, 2s moving up; 1s go right to start a hey for three on the ends", which is correct for both man and woman. Some dancers seem to need to hear "man goes down, woman goes up", even if that requires women dancing as men to translate their sex in order to know what the direction is. I'm also convinced that there's a detour of information when a teacher says "cast left!" and the woman who is mirroring her partner has to process this command in mirror image form and cast right. What could be voice--->muscle movement becomes voice--->rational thought process(oh, I have to turn right)---->command to self(cast right! )--->muscle movement. Yes! Plus, I don't think we want dancers to feel socially or officially invisible or secondary on the dance floor. Hear, hear! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:57:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:02:24 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, dfranco-AT- mo.net Message-ID: <970609000214_157577931-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> From John Ramsay in St Louis Berni and I were fortunate to have a St Louis lutenist as passenger to the Champaign/Urbana Ball last night. He is eager to develop a consort of musicians to play Playford music using historical instruments. Can some of you on this wonderful network lead him to sources of four part consort arrangements in lute tablature? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:57:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 01:15:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > I generally prefer to use words that suggest everyone is an actor, rather than > just being acted upon, but it is sometimes difficult. I have found it > surprisingly difficult to teach 'roll away with a half sashay' (which CDM > describes as, I think, 'men bring the left-hand girl to their right-hand side') > in a way that isn't insanely verbose and doesn't suggest the women being > passive. I've heard it taught as: "Women, take your partner's hand and turn clockwise to face him; men, stay put. Now, women, switch hands and keep on turning until you're on his other side. Make it all one continuous movement." Wordy, yes, but pretty unambiguous. It's not gender-neutral--but then, since the women are doing most of the moving, it makes sense to direct most of the instruction to them. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:57:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:44:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fried Tour To: ECD Message-ID: <970609154408_101454.633_IHP137-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Just come back from the "Fried" weekend at Halsway Manor! Glorious Setting, Wonderful Music and Fried! - What could be better!!!! -I'm well and truly hooked! - Dances by Fried, - Called by Fried, - and danced to the music of the Weston Country Dance Band. (John, Mary & Christine Brock were superb.) "The nearest I've heard to an first class American Country Dance band this side of the 'pond'" - remarked my partner! And of course we had to following the American tradition of changing partners for every dance!!!!!! There were just 40 priveleged dancers - and we all revelled in it! - By the end of the weekend, our dancing had taken on a new dimension, and we were all dancing 6" taller!! - Fried did mostly dances from her new book "Fringe Benefits", and we were allowed to view the only copy in existance!!! - "Not quite finished" said Fried! Special favourites were - " Musidora" . - a delightful longways with super movements for the 2nd couple as well as the first! - "Laurelhurst" - a 3-couple dance in either Triple time or waltz time - we English are not very good at distinguishing between! 2 disappoinments. 1. The weekend went far too quickly! 2. She has decided not to do "The Human Race" in England. (I've heard about this dance for months now, Fried! - Perhaps next time you come!) Now it's back to the Real world!! - Never mind, still plenty of Fried to look forward to - I've booked for Watford this Saturday, Glouester the following Tuesday, and the Lichfield Festival the following Weekend. By-the-way, Halsway Manor is a sixteenth century Country Manor House in the Quantock in Somerset and is dedicated to Folk Dancing. It is THE place to Dance. Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire Do you remember Marc Edgar asking about dancing in England? He was spending his honeymoon here. Well, He and his wife, Lynn, managed to get to the "Fried" Dance in Oxford! - It was like meeting an old friend! They also came to our Folk Dance Club night the folowing evening - a bit of "from the sublime to the ridiculous!" Hope the rest of your English tour was successful, and you enjoyed Bath, Marc. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:57:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 14:42:59 -0400 From: Wayne Crouch <72633.425-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: "BlindCopyReceiver:;"-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <199706081443_MC2-1812-171E-AT- compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, now, I didn't graduate from a lovely little New England liberal art= s college, but I know a challenge when I see one, Carl! = I hereby pick up the gauntlet in defense of Amherst area English country dancing. Last night I had a perfectly delightful time dancing here in Amherst with a bunch of smiling, joyous, stylistically accomplished and fun dancers. True, there were a few EBs (Experienced Beginners) and real live true beginners present, but people's friendliness and helpfulness toward the beginners warmed my heart, and I observed no serious problems or roadblocks caused by the EBs. However, now and then (in our case, last week) fate conspires to produce an evening at our local weekly dance (and perhaps at yours) when the ratio of dancers who are able to help others through a dance, to those who need massive help, is so out of balance as to cause the kind of frustration that oozed from Kevin Cooke's recent postings. I believe that when that happens, all the old hands/semi-experts (callers, dancers & musicians alike) need to reach deep and rise to the occasion. I have some thoughts about how & what. Perhaps callers could have in mind, or on paper, a short list of wonderful-but-not-especially-confusing dances, preferably with great tunes, just for these times. (I stole this idea from Linda Repasky, BTW.)= Any suggestions out there for such a list? Callers could do some thinking ahead of time about how you might adjust your teaching methods on these particular dances...which segments likely will need several walk-thrus with & without music, which transitions need extra practice, what jokes might fit, what the most effective wordings will be. And be ready to teach extra-carefully (although not exhaustively or in a boring way) and take the needed time to do it. = As important as advance prep is the caller's attitude... seeing it as an opportunity, a challenge; not a disappointment, or the latest in a series= of trials! You have to want to provide a good time for *those who are in= the hall,* not some mythical roomful of better dancers. The caller has to remain calm and patient, stay in the present moment, enjoy him/herself! Despair is contagious, so the caller can't afford it...luckily, there are always *some* good things happening to lift one's= spirit. = The better dancers can also decide to have fun, no matter what. The idea= of expertly dancing around any problems is a good one, provided you convey by smiles, shrugs, humor or quick encouraging remarks that the confused persons are far from ruining your evening and will probably catch on soon. Meanwhile, you're using every gesture and trick in your bags to give cues to the befuddled. The musicians can make a special effort to establish that rapport with the dancers that sends energy back & forth. You can play very simply but= beautifully, or with great good humor, always making the phrasing crystal= clear and keeping variations of the tune to a minimum until everyone has relaxed into the figures. You can play with the most "lift" you can muster and see if your tempo seems to be helping or hurting. I believe the key person remains the caller/teacher. He/she sets the tone, determines pacing, and has authority to enlist the cooperation of the better dancers and the musicians. No amount of worthy effort from expert, friendly dancers and sensational musicians can save an evening of= bad judgment or poor preparation by the caller. Sorry, callers, it's in your laps. (all this and high pay, too! what a career!) sorry this was so long. would love to hear further ideas, solutions on this topic, including long-term efforts that might help to reduce the number of such "crisis evenings." = Joyce Crouch Amherst MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 10:57:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 20:55:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fwd: decline (short draft) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970607205517_90344546-AT- emout20.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-06-06 12:29:09 EDT, leslie_lassetter-AT- juno.com (Leslie A Lassetter) writes: << Subj: Re:decline (short draft) Date: 97-06-06 12:29:09 EDT From: leslie_lassetter-AT- juno.com (Leslie A Lassetter) To: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Begun 5 June 1997 This draft: 6 June 1997 Hi David, I am sending this via regular E-mail vs. ECD listserv, because I'm so new to this list. (Midnight last night I signed on.) I didn't know how to edit it down to size and get it back into the listserv reply mode. So please forward it through to the ECD listserv for me. I dance with Beverly at CDNY. I'm writing a dissertation on ECD that focuses on Pat Shaw (if I can figure out how to finance it; things are on hold at the moment). I've been English country dancing for nearly five years. I found ECD after square and contradancing through a friend in the NY-area Pinewoods Folk Music Club. I do want to respond to your "decline" query. The simple answer is, yes, there's a decline. Another side of that coin is: yes, we have beginners. Some beginners stick around and get better. Some will dance for years and years and advance merely to what the Scottish country dancers call "permanent intermediates." Some will someday shine as wonderful dancers. Style? It's not being consistently emphasized. Is style being taught now? Yes, by Fried Herman. Yes, sometimes by Beverly Francis. Do other teachers attempt to teach style: some of them do attempt it. Some of them don't do it very well. They have on and off nights. Some of them think they're teaching it but are not getting it to happen on the dance floor, be that floor filled with beginners or with experienced dancers. Gene Murrow sometimes teaches style, and he always manages to make it painless and quick and fun (i.e., not tedious). I'm happy if there are lots of teachers teaching if that means we have more English Country dancing. I am increasingly frustrated by callers who talk and talk and talk and think that is good teaching. I think Bruce Hamilton coined the term, "no syllable calling." The less the person at the mike talks, the more we dance. (Speaking of walk-throughs). Gene Murrow is very good at saying very little, yet getting a hall full of beginners and advanced dancers dancing very quickly. It's a sort of, give them just what they need to get them started and fix it if they get a bit muddled. But it's hard to get muddled with Gene, because he's so clear. His manner also puts dancers at ease. The problem you have not put into words is this: where are the beginner classes, intermediate classes, and advanced classes? By the time we get to Pinewoods dance camp, we're beyond beginner or we wouldn't be at the camp in the first place. There are historical things to think about: Didn't people once dance for certificates? Did CDS (I think it was CDS before it was CDSS; in England there was first EDS and later EDSS when song was added), anyway: Did CDS once have graded levels of dancing and a certificate of achievement required before you went on to the next level? I'm vaguely remembering something like that. Of course, do we want to be that regimented anymore. Our current CDNY leadership no longer requires anything like that. Here is one way of looking at our CDNY dance problem. We only have dances. We have Tuesday night dances. We have special Friday night dances for those who are experienced (but they usually feel very intermediate). We don't have classes. We just have dances. At dances, you dance. At classes, you learn. Why would style look good if we're always dancing but seldom really learning. Learning what? Teachers want us to make dance patterns fill up the phrase of music. But some among us don't know what a phrase is. We may hear lovely music but not be able to identify a phrase. (I see this a lot: people standing around waiting for the next phrase or worse, people beginning the next dance pattern half a phrase too early.) To illustrate, a ball is a dance. When you get there, you already know the dances or you are a calibre of dancer that you can pick it up at the walkthrough before the ball. But you don't learn the dances at the ball. At the ball, you really dance the dances. You've learned them beforehand. Our Tuesday night CDNY dances are a mix of class and dance, with more emphasis on dance. The emphasis is the fun of dancing, not fine-tuned learning. Those of us who greatly enjoy really fine-tuned, high quality, experienced dancing are going to have less fun when our dance evenings are challenging to new dancers but not to us. The challenge of getting a hall full of 60% new dancers through the dances is a challenge with rewards: we have more dancers now. But we don't get the reward of dancing our dances well. One "for those who know" dance per evening doesn't fill the void. Let me say, I am glad we have all those new beginners after Linda Wolf's article. It has given the dance community new life. I hope the current board and English committee will rise to its new challenges. Keep our newcomers but don't drive away those of us who need a higher level of dancing. Those of us who are true diehards will still come and dance. But if something is not done to cater to the experienced dancers, they may dance elsewhere or stay home until it's ball time or time for special dance weekends and summer dance camps. It's going to take some creative problem-solving and careful programming. There are problems with having all levels of dancers (almost) always dancing altogether at (almost) all dance events. May we meet these challenges collectively, with unity, and successfully. We have a hard row to hoe but a glorious crop to gather if we sew our dance seeds well and water and weed with care. I have more thoughts on teachers, but this is quite long enough for one E-mail epistle. If this sounds completely CDNY-oriented (Country Dance New York), that's because I dance there so regularly. I wonder how the Glen Echo folk and the Philadelphia folk are doing. It's been a while since I danced with them. Ever dancing, Leslie Lassetter >> --------------------- Forwarded message: From: leslie_lassetter-AT- juno.com (Leslie A Lassetter) To: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Date: 97-06-06 12:29:09 EDT From: leslie_lassetter Full-Name: Leslie A Lassetter To: Dchandle-AT- aol.com Subject: Re: Decline/2nd draft X-Status: Unsent Begun 5 June 1997 This draft: 6 June 1997 Hi David, I am sending this via regular E-mail vs. ECD listserv, because I'm so new to this list. (Midnight last night I signed on.) I didn't know how to edit it down to size and get it back into the listserv reply mode. So please forward it through to the ECD listserv for me. I dance with Beverly at CDNY. I'm writing a dissertation on ECD that focuses on Pat Shaw (if I can figure out how to finance it; things are on hold at the moment). I've been English country dancing for nearly five years. I found ECD after square and contradancing through a friend in the NY-area Pinewoods Folk Music Club. I do want to respond to your "decline" query. The simple answer is, yes, there's a decline. Another side of that coin is: yes, we have beginners. Some beginners stick around and get better. Some will dance for years and years and advance merely to what the Scottish country dancers call "permanent intermediates." Some will someday shine as wonderful dancers. Style? It's not being consistently emphasized. Is style being taught now? Yes, by Fried Herman. Yes, sometimes by Beverly Francis. Do other teachers attempt to teach style: some of them do attempt it. Some of them don't do it very well. They have on and off nights. Some of them think they're teaching it but are not getting it to happen on the dance floor, be that floor filled with beginners or with experienced dancers. Gene Murrow sometimes teaches style, and he always manages to make it painless and quick and fun (i.e., not tedious). I'm happy if there are lots of teachers teaching if that means we have more English Country dancing. I am increasingly frustrated by callers who talk and talk and talk and think that is good teaching. I think Bruce Hamilton coined the term, "no syllable calling." The less the person at the mike talks, the more we dance. (Speaking of walk-throughs). Gene Murrow is very good at saying very little, yet getting a hall full of beginners and advanced dancers dancing very quickly. It's a sort of, give them just what they need to get them started and fix it if they get a bit muddled. But it's hard to get muddled with Gene, because he's so clear. His manner also puts dancers at ease. The problem you have not put into words is this: where are the beginner classes, intermediate classes, and advanced classes? By the time we get to Pinewoods dance camp, we're beyond beginner or we wouldn't be at the camp in the first place. There are historical things to think about: Didn't people once dance for certificates? Did CDS (I think it was CDS before it was CDSS; in England there was first EDS and later EDSS when song was added), anyway: Did CDS once have graded levels of dancing and a certificate of achievement required before you went on to the next level? I'm vaguely remembering something like that. Of course, do we want to be that regimented anymore. Our current CDNY leadership no longer requires anything like that. Here is one way of looking at our CDNY dance problem. We only have dances. We have Tuesday night dances. We have special Friday night dances for those who are experienced (but they usually feel very intermediate). We don't have classes. We just have dances. At dances, you dance. At classes, you learn. Why would style look good if we're always dancing but seldom really learning. Learning what? Teachers want us to make dance patterns fill up the phrase of music. But some among us don't know what a phrase is. We may hear lovely music but not be able to identify a phrase. (I see this a lot: people standing around waiting for the next phrase or worse, people beginning the next dance pattern half a phrase too early.) To illustrate, a ball is a dance. When you get there, you already know the dances or you are a calibre of dancer that you can pick it up at the walkthrough before the ball. But you don't learn the dances at the ball. At the ball, you really dance the dances. You've learned them beforehand. Our Tuesday night CDNY dances are a mix of class and dance, with more emphasis on dance. The emphasis is the fun of dancing, not fine-tuned learning. Those of us who greatly enjoy really fine-tuned, high quality, experienced dancing are going to have less fun when our dance evenings are challenging to new dancers but not to us. The challenge of getting a hall full of 60% new dancers through the dances is a challenge with rewards: we have more dancers now. But we don't get the reward of dancing our dances well. One "for those who know" dance per evening doesn't fill the void. Let me say, I am glad we have all those new beginners after Linda Wolf's article. It has given the dance community new life. I hope the current board and English committee will rise to its new challenges. Keep our newcomers but don't drive away those of us who need a higher level of dancing. Those of us who are true diehards will still come and dance. But if something is not done to cater to the experienced dancers, they may dance elsewhere or stay home until it's ball time or time for special dance weekends and summer dance camps. It's going to take some creative problem-solving and careful programming. There are problems with having all levels of dancers (almost) always dancing altogether at (almost) all dance events. May we meet these challenges collectively, with unity, and successfully. We have a hard row to hoe but a glorious crop to gather if we sew our dance seeds well and water and weed with care. I have more thoughts on teachers, but this is quite long enough for one E-mail epistle. If this sounds completely CDNY-oriented (Country Dance New York), that's because I dance there so regularly. I wonder how the Glen Echo folk and the Philadelphia folk are doing. It's been a while since I danced with them. Ever dancing, Leslie Lassetter ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:07:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:20:19 -0500 From: seniort-AT- newtrier.k12.il.us (Thomas J. Senior) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD for Folk Dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello all. I thought i'd give you a quick run down of this last weekend's ECD workshop at our Regional June Folkdance Weekend. It was unique, to say the least. The workshops alternated between Macedonian and English. A greater contrast would be hard to imagine. I was lucky enough to get Shannon Russel, Amy McFarland, Marie Terres to play for the 90 minute workshop on Saturday, but the rest had to be done with recorded music. I'm afraid my collection of recorded music is too slim. Here are the dances we did: Saturday I Care Not for These Ladies Nottingham Swing Well Hall Jack's Health Halfe Hannikin Sunday Duke of Kent's Waltz Juice of Barley Handel with Care Walpole Cottege. (the heys worked, mostly) There were significantly more women than men (about 30-40%), so i tried for gender neutral language and dances that were not too intimate. I kind of rushed through Halfe Hannikin at the end of Saturday's time, so it was no suprise when people had orientation problems with the end effects. Most took it in good humor and came back to the next days class anyway. My main recorded music source was Hold the Mustard's English Country Dance Favorite's CD. It was great to end with their spirited version of Walpole Cottege. I'd like to thank all those who offered ideas for the ways to work with international dancers. It went far better than i thought it might. Tom Those who can, do. Those who understand, teach. Thomas J. Senior New Trier High School 1232 St. Johns Ave 385 Winnetka Ave Highland Park, IL 60035-3425 Winnetka, IL 60093-4295 847-433-8704 847-446-7000 x2128 seniort-AT- newtrier.k12.il.us ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:21:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 14:22:37 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970609142134_-1664301242-AT- emout18.mail.aol.com> (Snip) "Well, now, I didn't graduate from a lovely little New England liberal arts college, but I know a challenge when I see one, Carl! I hereby pick up the gauntlet in defense of Amherst area English country dancing. However, now and then (in our case, last week) fate conspires to produce an evening at our local weekly dance (and perhaps at yours) when the ratio of dancers who are able to help others through a dance, to those who need massive help, is so out of balance as to cause the kind of frustration that oozed from Kevin Cooke's recent postings. I believe that when that happens, all the old hands/semi-experts (callers, dancers & musicians alike) need to reach deep and rise to the occasion. Perhaps callers could have in mind, or on paper, a short list of wonderful-but-not-especially-confusing dances, preferably with great tunes, just for these times. As important as advance prep is the caller's attitude... seeing it as an opportunity, a challenge; not a disappointment, or the latest in a series of trials! You have to want to provide a good time for *those who are in the hall,* not some mythical roomful of better dancers. The musicians can make a special effort to establish that rapport with the dancers that sends energy back & forth... I believe the key person remains the caller/teacher... Joyce Crouch" As usual, I agree100% with my dear friend Joyce (and trust we will dance and play music together at Campers' Week this August, yes?). I especially like her point "preferably with great tunes," as even some very good and experienced callers often seem to forget the critical importance of a great tune in the total gestalt of a great dance. --Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:23:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:23:20 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IJV7O3TPEOA7357A-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Paul Stamler wrote [re: 'roll away with a half-sashay'] I've heard it taught as: "Women, take your partner's hand and turn clockwise to face him; men, stay put. Now, women, switch hands and keep on turning until you're on his other side. Make it all one continuous movement." Wordy, yes, but pretty unambiguous. It's not gender-neutral--but then, since the women are doing most of the moving, it makes sense to direct most of the instruction to them. The men shouldn't just stand there like lumps, though. Can we add to this that the men (a) balance back and forward and (b) keep enough tension in the arm that a feeling of connection is maintained? This move turns into *nothing* if both dancers don't do it. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 11:32:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:34:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706091834.NAA22876-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Paul J. Stamler" writes: >On Fri, 6 Jun 1997, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: >> just being acted upon, but it is sometimes difficult. I have found it >> surprisingly difficult to teach 'roll away with a half sashay' (which CDM >> describes as, I think, 'men bring the left-hand girl to their right-hand side') >> in a way that isn't insanely verbose and doesn't suggest the women being >> passive. >I've heard it taught as: >"Women, take your partner's hand and turn clockwise to face him; men, >stay put. Now, women, switch hands and keep on turning until you're on his >other side. Make it all one continuous movement." >Wordy, yes, but pretty unambiguous. It's not gender-neutral--but then, >since the women are doing most of the moving, it makes sense to direct >most of the instruction to them. You've described the "roll-away", but left out the "half-sashay". That's the part where the person not rolling, steps to the left (usually) and moves into the rolling person's place. The call is addressed to both participants; both the person who rolls (usually the woman and usually from the left to the right of the man) and the person who makes a half-sashay (usually the man and to the left). The genders and directions can be variable. I can think of some dances where the man rolls in front of the woman, where the actives (man and woman) roll in front of the inactives (of the same gender), and where the roll-away takes place without a half-sashay. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 20:59:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 00:13:22 -0400 From: Faina Riftina Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "BlindCopyReceiver:;"-AT- compuserve.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <339CD462.7FE1-AT- is3.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199706081443_MC2-1812-171E-AT- compuserve.com> > Joyce, yours is not the complete answer to this conundrum, but your thoughts on how all can conspire to make a less-than-perfect situation enjoyable are lovely and right on the mark. I particularly concur with your view that the prime responsibility is the caller's, especially in his or her programming role. Anyone who has had the pleasure of looking through Fried Herman's Ease and Elegance collection knows that her recommendation for caller/teachers is to plan multiple programs. Create a grid with columns for easy dances and for challenging ones. Be sure to include a few new items in the easy column to keep the interest of experienced dancers. And so on. Programming is the key art, and it depends on many things-- experience, knowledge, judgment, and aesthetic taste. For better or for worse, the caller bears the prime responsibility for practicing this art on any given evening. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 03:44:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:45:25 +0200 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Picking up Sticks/Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <339D3045.2940-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199705301242.IAA07643-AT- waters.sanders.lockheed.com> <19970606.180214.13935.7.jbeer-AT- juno.com> Jennifer Beer wrote: "For Picking Up Sticks, I once had a momentary inspiration which I've used ever since on the "zippers" figure (renamed because I think it is more like zipping and unzipping than shoelacing.) Ask 1M, 2W, 3M to raise their hands. They are "Team A." The others are "Team B" Have Team A change places, starting with top person. Then Team B.... etc." I want to add that Colin Hume does this dance with the twos improper. That makes for quite a different first part of the dance. During arm left, he has the twos turn one and a half times to end proper, ready to start the hey/weaving. I think his suggestion is interesting and dancers don't seem to object doing it that way. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 05:22:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:20:42 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Decline (short draft), classes To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ............We only have > dances. We have Tuesday night dances. We have special Friday night > dances for those who are experienced (but they usually feel very > intermediate). We don't have classes. We just have dances. At dances, > you dance. At classes, you learn. I agree with this. When I stumbled upon ECD at NEFFA one year, I went home and wondered how to learn more about this, how to DO more! Somehow, I lucked into a class series taught by Penelope Nauman in Great Barrington. I took two of these series. Penelope taught this class, emphasis on the taught. It wasn't ever a little evening dance. She had clear goals in mind and we did things until we got them right. I came away understanding a lot more about how the dance movements/choreography fit together, how to make decisions about how to move, how to really connect with your partner. AND I learned a certain amount of repertoire that gives me comfort to this day. My DH sometimes wonders - how do you keep these dances in your head (and I assure you I don't have THAT many up there)? Almost without exception, those dances are the ones I learned in those weekly classes in the Berkshires. Thanks Penelope! And thanks to Ben Rottenberg, then about 13, who guided this person so expertly during an English session at NEFFA so many years ago. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 06:35:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:42:08 -0400 From: peggyl-AT- netdepot.com (Peggy Lamberson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706101342.JAA19200-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <970609000214_157577931-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> JohnBerni-AT- aol.com (Mon, 09 Jun 1997 00:02:24 -0400 (EDT)): >>From John Ramsay in St Louis > >Berni and I were fortunate to have a St Louis lutenist as passenger to the >Champaign/Urbana Ball last night. He is eager to develop a consort of >musicians to play Playford music using historical instruments. Can some of >you on this wonderful network lead him to sources of four part consort >arrangements in lute tablature? > Lyle Nordstrom (who is the lute and theorbo player with The Musicians of Swanne Alley and The Merry Band) played for our evening dance at the Fiddles, Flutes, and Feet workshop on May 31. He has included music from Playford in a number of performances (and an upcoming recording, I believe), and probably has a good idea of what sources are available for lute. I know he's had to do arrangements of many of the tunes himself, tho. I'd rather not give out his personal phone/email without his permission, but you can reach him through the music department at Clayton College and State University, 770/961-3609. Peggy A house with a cat needs no art.--Japanese saying peggyl-AT- netdepot.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:16:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:45:23 -0500 From: Charlene Charette Subject: Re: Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <339D7693.5FC3-AT- flash.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <970609000214_157577931-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> <199706101342.JAA19200-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> > Can some of you on this wonderful network lead him to sources of four part > consort arrangements in lute tablature? You can also contact Al Cofrin. I know him from his playing in the SCA, but he also plays with an early music group outside the SCA. He plays *many* instruments, including lute, and has published tablature for SCA dances. His email address is: avatarcat-AT- aol.com. --Charlene ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:37:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:37:47 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Barnes To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970610113747.3423-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Marshall Barron (sp?), New York area fiddle player and an important part of Pinewoods Early Music Week, received a grant to go to Great Britain and look for original period arrangements of Playford tunes. You might check with her. She also has some published arrangements for a number of different parts. I know of them, have not seen them, can give no quality judgements regarding them, Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 12:21:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:22:14 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970610152202_-1563801083-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> From John Ramsay in St Louis Three cheers for Joyce Crouch's response concerning how to pull off inspired dancing every time!!! >>Perhaps callers could have in mind, or on paper, a short list of wonderful-but-not-especially-confusing dances, preferably with great tunes, just for these times. (I stole this idea from Linda Repasky, BTW.) Any suggestions out there for such a list? << Having taught in a college setting for many years I was continually confronted with a mix of experienced and new dancers. One of my "tricks," when the mix was of dominant concern, was to choose several dances new to everyone on those evenings. I have no suggestions for such a list because it would depend upon the past history of the experienced dancers. The problem is that the leader must always have some fresh material and know it well enough to call in a manner clean and skillful enough for new dancers. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:24:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:24:34 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: "Trip to the Jubilee" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IJX0VOHWRCA73QND-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECDers -- Do any of you happen to have instructions for "Trip to the Jubilee", the dance that goes with the slip-jig tune in Barnes? I'm afraid I messed up in making the dance cross-reference to Barnes95 and listed Wright's Humours Vol 2 as a source for the dance. This turns out to be a different tune (in reel time) and must be a different dance. The Country Dance Index gives only "The Next Dance Is ... " #2 by the Kenton Ramblers, a recording with instructions, as a source for the dance. CDSS doesn't seem to carry that. If you have dance instructions, would you kindly forward them to me or post to the list? It's a very cool tune. Thanks, -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:25:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 22:27:06 -0400 (EDT) From: RLHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Trip to the Jubilee" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IJX9A9UHCO9FMF5R-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Alan, I don't have instructions for "Trip to the Jubilee," but if it's the tune you like, there's a dance in the Neal collection called "Jubilee Jigg" to virtually the same tune. Robin Hayden Amherst, MA, where this Monday night we had a room *full* of wonderful dancers dancing to the music of Pat MacPherson, Earl Gaddis and Lise Brown on the first really summery night of the year. Wish you all could have been there. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:37:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 00:39:52 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Trip to the Jubilee" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706110444.AAA23118-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Do any of you happen to have instructions for "Trip to the Jubilee", > the dance that goes with the slip-jig tune in Barnes? Here's a fairly terse version, but hopefully enough to get you through. A Trip to the Jubilee (duple) 1703-1728 as 'tis Danc'd at the Playhouse A1 1 1s cross [while turning single] & stay facing out 2 2s cross [while turning single] while 1s turn single (all facing out) 3-4 Neighbors lead out; & lead back A2 1 1s slip down center (no hands) while 2s slip up outside (3 slips) 2 Turn single away (M1 & W2 left, W1 & M2 right) 3-4 Partners turn by right halfway; & fall back to places B 1 Partners meet 2-4 2s cast; & lead up WHILE 1s lead up; & cast 5-6 Partners turn 1 & 1/4 into line down center of set (Wm facing down, men up) 7-8 Facing another in line, half set forward on right; & cast left to progressed places [Set (forward on right half, back on left) & cast right to progressed places] The instructions in square brackets represent alternate figures I've seen used. Pat Shaw originally reconstructed this dance, but credit goes to Helene Cornelius for fine tuning it into a delightfully dancable dance. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:22:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:42:31 -0400 From: leslie_lassetter-AT- juno.com (Leslie A Lassetter) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford musical scores To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970611.131933.3350.1.leslie_lassetter-AT- juno.com> In Digest V1 #217 or #218, someone asked about musical scores. It was in reference to some musicians wanting to form a Playford ensemble for playing dances. Try Grace Feldman. Two summers ago at Pinewoods (English Scottish Session), she had several books of arrangements she'd published for ECD. I suggest finding her in the CDSS directory, or by contacting the New Haven ECD group, or (should that fail) by looking up Marshall Baron. Grace and Marshall were the co-leaders of the New Haven ECD "house band" the last (and only) time I danced there. Good luck. (Apologies for not replying by name to the person who requested this. My computer's "resume mode" failed and so I have lost #217 and #218 until I can figure out how to retrieve them from the ECD listserv archive.) Ever dancing, Leslie Lassetter ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 21:21:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 00:28:46 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <33A0DA85.ECE-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <970610152202_-1563801083-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> For many years, I thought that having a consistent caller made a big difference to dancing level, both for contra and for English. Then I asked myself, "why is this true?" There's a realistic part: a caller can emphasize something one week, repeat it the next, develop a theme, build on skills taught earlier, and develop familiarity with the dancers so that some more critical comments feel acceptable because they aren't between strangers. There's an irrational part: when a dance is not one where I will call again for quite some time, my choice of dances may be biased to have new/fresh dances -- perhaps at the cost of focusing on skill. I'm often aware around the Midwest of the snooty reputation ECD has; perhaps I make sure not to be elitist to the detriment of teaching style. But there's a deep cultural issue here that social scientists have been talking about of late: our growing discomfort with saying that A is good and B is not good. Genny Shimer used to tell us it was wrong to arrive late for the next figure. I find myself saying "it's not so much fun" or "the dance flows better when you are on time." My statements are true, but not forceful, and leave it to the dancer to decide, "Do I care about the flow? Nah..." I think that we've modified our understanding of the social interaction, the etiquette rules, for caller behavior, and this too has contributed to a decline in dance competence. -------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / Ann Arbor MI -------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:43:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:57:12 -0700 From: dennis franco Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: register To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <33A16DD8.72C0-AT- mo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit register signon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:51:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:50:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline: Questions (short) and answers (long). To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Erna-Lynne's contributions to this thread brought up some questions in my mind, which I'll put to the whole list: 1) where does the best ECD tend to take place? 2) what are the conditions at the place(s) where the best dancing occurs, regarding leadership, size/strength of dancing community, frequency of dances, quality of music, availability of suitable sites, number of special events within reasonable distance for evening or weekend programs? 3) what other factors seem to contribute significantly to success or failure of ECD groups? for example, do they do better in areas where the population is fairly stable or fairly transient? 4) which of these factors seem to be more important for attracting and retaining new dancers? which for retaining experienced dancers? which for developing a high level of dancing skill? are some of these factors conflicting, and if so, which ones? what are good compromises or ways of working conflicting factors into one's dance program, if there are conflicts? 5) do you feel that your own enjoyment of ECD has risen with your skill level? 6) what elements do you feel contributed most to raising your own skills? My own answers (rather long; sorry!), to the extent that I have them, follow: 1) I feel that the best dancing occurs in areas where there relatively large numbers of good dancers (wow! what a profound conclusion!). This seems to be found mainly in areas of fairly high population density where ECD is well established, but it also occurs at special events which attract good dancers preferentially. These include balls, special dance weekends, and dance camps. 2) The areas which seem to have relatively large numbers of good dancers also seem to have good leadership. Properties of good leadership include a broad interest in and knowledge of ECD and its music, and of other related dance forms; a competent, preferably gentile teaching style; an ability to work with a broad range of dancers' skills; an ability to wwork smoothly with musicians; a willingness to do more than just entertain, in attempting to build a desire for raising the skill level; an ability to convey to the dancers some concepts of how to raise skills, and so forth... also these areas seem to be well supplied with musicians competent for producing danceable music with sufficient charm that it is an attraction in itself. I'm sure that having a suitable hall is also a quite positive thing, and while everybody seems to be on the search for the ultimate hall, this doesn't seem to be a determining factor. 3) being in a university town where there are both stable components and unstable components, it seems that it is important to have both, and to be connected to both. A group that depends only on long-term residents grows stale and tired; a group based primarily on transient population fluctuates too much. The stable part can provide continuity and organization and leadership, and is in a position to develop considerable skill, but must remain open to new people. The transient group bring freshness, influence from other areas, new skills, new raw material, and also export it to other areas in a way that can help to build interest in ECD in a general way, beneficial to all. We get quite a few people who are here for several years and then move on; they're here to add significantly to the dance activity here if we connect to them, and they enliven the local scene enough to keep the stable part of the community from stagnating, and to keep them from burning out on the orgisational side of putting on dances, if we aree able to find them and bring them in. A stable community which doesn't draw sufficient new blood seems likely to stagnate and die out. 4) no special wisdom about attracting new dancers or retaining experienced ones -- pretty much a reiteration of what has been said in this context by many others: an openness and welcoming attitude by both leadership and dancers to new dancers, a mechanism for getting their skill levels up to the point that they can participate fully fairly soon. For keeping the experienced ones -- teaching of style points for those who want to improve their dancing; dances primarily for entertainment, not teaching for some; some special events for more advanced dancers who want to enjoy the fruits of their labors to dance better. Beginners seem to learn best when they have both the benefits of good leadership with gentile teaching and a community of more experienced dancers in which they are immersed. They can learn most of the style points at the elementary level from the other dancers, so it seems less like "class", and this seems by far to be the most efficient way to learn this. So experienced dancers who wish to keep their dance communities strong should not underestimate the value in their continued presence at regular dances. A common problem with, and reason for not putting on, special events for more experienced dancers, is that it seems to promote snobbish behavior, with the experienced dancers showing up only at the events at the higher level, and that undercuts the program for new dancers by lowering the quality for them. This then boomerangs -- the beginning group consists primarily of beginning and intermediate dancers, but lacks most of those who have learned to dance with real grace, and so not only are there fewer examples to learn from, the whole scene is less appealing to new people looking for something intriguing, and it tends to attract those with fewer options and for whom even this lower level is welcome. The alternative, not having special events for more experienced dancers, works only as long as the overall level remains high enough to retain their interest. The alternative is to drop out entirely, or only go to remote dance events. Since this dancer is lost to the local group, this does not seem to be good policy. Even with a separate, "elite" group of dancers, there is something for enthusiastic intermediates to aim for; but for the best health of the dance group, one should have both events for the more advanced dancers and participation by the more advanced in teh regular events, it seems. 5) in my case, my answer is unequivocal: the rewards for increasing skill have been great! 6) the effects resulting from becoming a caller/leader, which have become my principal reason for continuing in this direction, I feel have contributed most to raising my own skills. Before this, dancing with _much_ better dancers, first at home, then at dance camps, then at special weekends, with a variety of wonderful teachers (who, of course, continue to have their beneficient influence), got me to the point that I wanted to start my own dance. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:44:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 10:46:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Decline? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199706131546.KAA29193-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> While there may, or may not, be an overall decline in dancing quality world-wide, I can thankfully report that there has been a definite improvement in dancing quality here locally (central Illinois). This past weekend we, the Central Illinois English Country Dancers, ended our second year with our second annual Playford Ball. The attendance was the best we've had for one of our events, with nearly forty dancers, including a group of ten who came up from St. Louis. We had several brand new dancers at the Ball, including one woman who had seen the announcement in the paper and called me two hours before the dance began. However the increased number of experienced dancers allowed the new dancers to be integrated into the group and made the quality of the dancing the highest we've seen at one of our events. I know we still have a long way to go to reach the level of dancing skill of many of the groups out there, but I feel we have made great progress in the past two years. We've seen steady improvement in attendance, dancing skill, musicianship (and size) of the band, and speaking for myself, teaching skill of the dance leaders. I think Erna-Lynne is correct in saying that it is very important to develop the community aspect of a dance group. All groups go through periods of decline, due to experienced dancers leaving and/or an influx of new dancers, or other reasons. However if there are too many experienced dancers whose attendance is based only on the quality of the dancing, then this can become a vicious circle. The dancing quality drops a little for any number of reasons, so the better dancers stop coming, so the dancing quality drops even more, and so on. I've seen this happen to several groups, including our local contra dance group, who have begun to turn things around, in part by stressing the community aspect of the group. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Home page URL: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~j-sivier | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:55:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:57:29 -0400 From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: decline To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9706131557.AD05936-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" As I contemplate apprenticing next year, I have tried to think of what few points I would to impart to dancers to sustain interest and raise the level of dancing. I think I have them down to three (last week there were four, but I seem to have forgotten one): 1. ECD is dancing: like ballroom or popular dancing with which everyone I suspect is familiar, it involves using the whole body (not just the feet, or "getting the steps right") and listening to the music -- its phrasing and spirit. I think folks can build on their social dance experience if they don't think as ECD as such a foreign experience. People hear the beat in the waltz, tango or in disco; they don't try to get through a pattern and stand around waiting for it to come around again. Thinking of how they express themselves with their body in dancing the tango or in disco (or swing) may serve the same purpose. 2. Dancing is social -- with a partner and with a set (and with a line.) There's ocassional self-indulgence and disregard for others that should not be confused with point three. 3. It's JUST dancing! Have fun. I have found suggestions in this thread most helpfula and welcome more. Danny Walkowitz ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 11:07:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 13:21:30 -0500 (CDT) From: Denny Franco Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Marshall Baron To: ECD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I recently saw two of Marshall Baron's songbooks. Does anyone know WHICH of her many books is arrangements of John Playfords tunes for 3 or more melody instruments? Is there a internet site with an INDEX of the tunes contained in each of the books? Thank you Dennis Franco St. Louis, Mo. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 12:36:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:37:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Marshall Baron To: ECD Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, Denny Franco wrote: > > I recently saw two of Marshall Baron's songbooks. Does anyone know WHICH > of her many books is arrangements of John Playfords tunes for 3 or more > melody instruments? I have most, if not all of these books; I'd be happy to make a list of which pieces appear in which books, and e-mail it to you directly, unless general interest is shown by others on this list, in which case I'll post it to the list. As far as I recall, all of her arrangements are three-part settings. There are some four-part settings out recently by someone else, with a promise of more to come out soon; I'll include a description of those, too. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:48:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 00:59:43 -0500 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Marshall Baron To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >I recently saw two of Marshall Baron's songbooks. Does anyone know WHICH >of her many books is arrangements of John Playfords tunes for 3 or more >melody instruments? > >Is there a internet site with an INDEX of the tunes contained in each of >the books? CDSS (Northampton, MA) has her things in the store... Unfortunately she is not on-line. ;-( But you could CALL her and ask.....or WRITE..... Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News >>next BEMN Deadline 6/18 for BEMF WRAP-UP issue! WEB Calendar http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/ 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 voice: 508/263.9926 fax: 508/263.2366 ** Area codes will change to 978 in September '97 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 22:54:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 01:05:10 -0500 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Marshall Baron -- um that's 2 r's!, II To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >As far as I recall, all of her arrangements are three-part settings. >There are some four-part settings out recently by someone else, with a >promise of more to come out soon; I'll include a description of those, >too. > Bernard Thomas, of London Pro Musica fame, has done many of the Playford Vol. 1 dances in 4-part versions according to the style of the time. The volume is about $10. Early Music Shop of NE has it and will do mail order. their on-line address is vonhuene-AT- world.std.com and they have a web-catalog: http://world.std.com/~vonhuene/ I eagerly await Mr. Thomas's further volumes of Playford dances. His arrangements are easy to play, historically accurate and stylistically correct. For some of us who play historical music on period instruments and are interested in taking a historical approach to dance this is important and very satisfying. I find them better suited to early instruments than Marshall Barron's arrangements. Marshall's arrangements are good, but they ain't HIP and she never set out to make them so... As they say elsewhere, your mileage may vary... [Been at BEMf too long, braind dead & museum feet; GREAT opera with dance done by Lucy Graham....WOWOW! If you live in the Boston area or can drive there easily, I highly recommend it. Last performances Saturday at 7 PM, June 14 and Sunday at 3:30 PM, June 15.] Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News >>next BEMN Deadline 6/18 for BEMF WRAP-UP issue! WEB Calendar http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/concerts/bemn/ 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 voice: 508/263.9926 fax: 508/263.2366 ** Area codes will change to 978 in September '97 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 07:47:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:48:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 3- & 4-part settings of ECD tunes (was Re: Marshall Baron) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have put together a list of the 3- and 4-part settings of English Country Dance tunes in my own collection; this includes 9 books with 3-part settings by Barron, one booklet by Gerald Burakoff and Willy Strickland with 3-part settings of old English tunes, including several dances, and one book of 4-part settings of Playford dances by Bernard Thomas (the edition to which Sheila recently referred). The list includes 242 titles, some of which refer to the same tune. I have listed them in alphabetical order, with references to which books they appear in. Since this list is bigger than I realized when I started to do this, I'll send it to individuals who request it. There is one publication by Barron that I know is not included: "The Geud Man of 55th Street".