Archive-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 20:10:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 00:10:55 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: calling Colin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704070423.AAA01855-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Does anyone know how to contact Colin Hume now that he is in the U.S.? P.s., I'm back from Costa Rica, so it's okay to talk again. :-) I was glad not to have missed much, but it's been awfully quite on the list lately. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 03:49:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 07:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: RbnRussell-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: calling Colin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970407074944_-2038007669-AT- emout09.mail.aol.com> Try Sharon Green at mls-AT- panix.com. I believe Colin will be in town for the NY ball. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 08:42:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:39:45 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Roger de Coverly/Virginia R To: ECD discussion list Message-ID: Subject: Time: 1:31 PM OFFICE MEMO Roger de Coverly/Virginia Reel? Date: 4/7/97 This is addressed primarily to Beverly Francis, who mentioned the topic in one of her Jane Austen posts, but anyone who is knowledgable on the subject is welcome to answer. In your post, Beverly, you said something to the effect that "Roger de Coverly" (or "Sir Roger de Coverly") was a good dance to do for Americans not familar with ECD, because they could recognize the similarity of it to the "Virginia Reel." I had always thought, although I couldn't cite where I got this idea, that the "Virginia Reel" *was* "Roger de Coverly" simply renamed. However, after reading your post I started thinking about it, and realized that I am not at all certain of how the "Virginia Reel" goes, because my memory of it from learning it in Junior High School is different from the way I've occasionally danced it in the past few years. I am quite certain that in the school version we did not do the "Strip the Willow" figure. So my question is - is there more than one version of the "Virginia Reel" and how different is it (are they) from "Roger de Coverly?" Also I have read that the "Virginia Reel" was George Washington's favorite dance (this one I could cite, except that the book's at home and I'm at work. That prompted me to speculate on whether the renaming of the dance was in honor of that particular Virginia gentleman. Anyone know? BTW, Jane Austen may not have mentioned that dance in any of her books, but George Elliot did. In _Silas Marner_ in a wonderful passage about a Christmas feast for the gentry, the old fiddler comes in and plays "Sir Roger de Coverly" which is the signal for everyone to get up and start the dance. He also plays "Far and Away." Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 09:22:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:22:37 -0500 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re Contacting Colin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is a reminder of how to get in touch with Colin Hume. His address and phone here in the Boston area are: 5 Edgehill Road Winchester MA 01890 USA Telephone: 617-729-4125 Colin will be leading a weekend here in Boston in the first weekend in May. This will include our first Friday dance and a Saturday dance at the Concord Scout house. Full details should be appearing soon on our web site. Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 11:52:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 14:02:00 -0400 (edt) From: "Potter, Donald" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Roger de Coverly/Virginia R To: Barbara Ruth , ECD discussion list Message-ID: <3349308C-AT- SMTPGW01.SCH.GE.COM> Barbara Ruth asked about the REAL Virginia Real .... The Virginia Reel is a "Scotch Reel" a three couple set dance with the following figures. It is also possible to do the dance as a triple minor ... but who would want to. A1 1 st couple hey on the opposite side (1st man with W2 and W3, and 1st W with M2 & M3) A2 1 st couple (w/ cpls 2 & 3) hey on their own side (women w/women, men w/men) B1 Chasse down the center, back and "cast off". The Colonial Assembly in Philadelphia has found that the "cast off" is best done via a chasse to the bottom with the first couple facing their partner as they progress to the bottom. Don ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:14:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 12:15:29 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Roger de Coverly/Virginia R To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IHF99XZ1IQ90R0RL-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Barbara Ruth remarks: >BTW, Jane Austen may not have mentioned that dance in any of her books, but >George Elliot did. In _Silas Marner_ in a wonderful passage about a Christmas >feast for the gentry, the old fiddler comes in and plays "Sir Roger de Coverly" >which is the signal for everyone to get up and start the dance. He also plays >"Far and Away." And Charles Dickens mentions, in _A Christmas Carol_, that the great effect of the evening [of Mr. Fezziwig's ball] was when the fiddler struck up Sir Roger de Coverly. I have read (but can't cite my source, sorry) that Sir Roger was the nearly invariable ending to balls for many, many years. On tangentially-related topics, I note that there is _a_ Virginia Reel in either Morrison or Keller & Sweet, and the notes there indicate that it is one of many, none of which are the familiar-from-elementary-school version, which certainly resembles Sir Roger very closely. Curiously (considering that it's an _E_FDSS publication), the Community Dance Manuals give the Virginia Reel (to the tune of "Turkey in the Straw"), but don't list Sir Roger anywhere. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 09:21:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 12:20:04 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Roger de Coverly/Virgin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>Roger de Coverly/Virginia R Alan Winston wrote: -------------------------------------- Barbara Ruth remarks: >BTW, Jane Austen may not have mentioned that dance in any of her books, but >George Elliot did. And Charles Dickens mentions, in _A Christmas Carol_, that the great effect of the evening [of Mr. Fezziwig's ball] was when the fiddler struck up Sir Roger de Coverly. I have read (but can't cite my source, sorry) that Sir Roger was the nearly invariable ending to balls for many, many years. ============================================================================= How wonderful! Thanks for pointing that out - I will have to go back and reread it. There is something delightful about picking up a long ago read book and discovering a reference to country dance that I'd never noticed before. It's like bumping into familiar friends in a foreign country. The Virginia Reel is mentioned by name in _Rose in Bloom_ by Louisa May Alcott, better known for having written _Little Women_. There is a scene where Rose announces that they are going to have "an old-fashioned contra dance" (I think the story is set somewhere around the 1850s) and they start it off with the Virginia Reel. I wonder if Virginia Reel/Sir Roger is the most alluded to country dance in English/A#004#merican literature. I haven't reread _Little Women_ in decades, but all of this prompts me to go back and do that to see if there are any other allusions to specific dances. As to Sir Roger being the nearly invariable ending to English balls, I know that Beverly Francis has mentioned that when she does her Jane Austen workshops (where are you Beverly!) I also recall hearing, but don't know how authentic this is, that Sir Roger actually started life as plain old "Roger de Coverly" and joined the nobility somewhere along the years, much as that good old mariner Patrick Spens also picked up a "Sir." Any experts out there who can verify or refute? Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:02:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:03:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Roger de Coverly/Virgin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704081703.NAA11383-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:20 PM 4/8/97 -0400, Barbara Ruth wrote: > I also recall hearing, but don't know how authentic >this is, that Sir Roger actually started life as plain old "Roger de Coverly" >and joined the nobility somewhere along the years, much as that good old mariner >Patrick Spens also picked up a "Sir." Any experts out there who can verify or >refute? Neither a verification nor a refutation, but a footnote: COVERLEY, SIR ROGER DE, a character described by Addison in the 'Spectator.' He is a member of the Spectator Club, 'a gentleman of Worcestershire, of ancient descent, a baronet. His great-grandfather was inventor of that famous country dance which is called after him. He is a gentleman that is very singular in his behavior, but his singularities proceed from his good sense, and are contradictions to the manners of the world, only as he thinks the world is in the wrong....It is said, he keeps himself a batchelor, by reason he was crossed in love by a perverse beautiful widow of the next county to him.' He figures in a number of the 'Spectator' papers (both by Addison and Steele), being depicted at home, at church, at the assizes, in town, at the play, at Vauxhall, &c. [Oxford Companion to English Literature, 3rd Ed.] Perhaps the Spectator papers may hold some clues about the noble [or ignoble?] origins of the fictional baronet's purported ancestor. Happy hunting-- Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 10:17:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:18:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD in Children's Literature To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704081718.NAA12005-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re: Barbara Ruth's reference to country-dancing in Alcott's novels For depictions of country-dancing in children's literature, try the 30-plus Abbey Girls books by Elsie Oxenham. Oxenham, an avid folk-dancer, sets her tales in the early days of Sharp's revival, and references to teaching practices of the period and to the dances themselves abound. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:44:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Roger de Coverly/Virgin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Barbara Ruth remarks: > I have read (but can't cite my source, sorry) that Sir Roger was >the nearly invariable ending to balls for many, many years. It seems as though the tradition lasted up to pretty recent times. In one of Dorothy Sayers' novels ( she wrote the Sir Peter Whimsey mysteries ) "Sir Roger" was done at midnight as the last dance of a masquerade ball. Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 14:25:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 17:27:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Carol G. Marsh" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Conference announcement To: English Country Dance Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Society of Dance History Scholars Conference, June 19-22, 1997 In 1979 at a conference at Barnard College in New York City, the Society of Dance History Scholars was formed. In 1997, SDHS will return to Barnard in celebration of the breadth and vigor our field has achieved in the intervening years. The open framework of this conference has resulted in an exciting program that represents a wide spectrum of topics and of intellectual approaches. The conference opens Thursday evening, June 19, with a reception in Barnard's Altschul Atrium. On Friday, Saturday, and Sunday the stimulating mixture of papers, roundtables, lecture-demonstrations, and workshops will run in three parallel sessions, each including from two to five presentations. The full program of the conference will appear in the spring SDHS newsletter. *Highlights of the conference include: Modern dance pioneers Writing dance biography Issues in Baroque dance reconstruction Image, film, and iconography Ballet in the 1920s New perspectives on dances of social protest The electronic preservation and retrieval of dance sources New discoveries in early dance Convergence of cultures and identities Gesture and pantomime Social dance training and the performance of cultural assimilation Dance in post-war Germany Dance, politics, and culture in 17th-century England Nineteenth-century ballet Dance institutions in New York City Form in dance and dance music *Workshops: Hanya Holm's circle study Lester Horton technique African dance Baroque gesture *PLUS -A memorial concert for Cynthia Jean Cohen Bull (Cynthia Novack) by the Richard Bull Dance Theatre on Friday, June 20, followed by a roundtable, "Ethnographies of Improvisation: The Work of Cynthia Jean Cohen Bull" -Working groups on Early Dance, on Ethnicity and Dance, and on Dance Reconstruction To receive a conference brochure or to join SDHS, send an email request to: Marge Maddux maddu001-AT- maroon.tc.umn.edu Please put "SDHS conference brochure request" in the subject line. (Please do NOT respond to me or to this list directly.) Carol G. Marsh | Phone: 910 334-5421 School of Music, UNCG | Fax: 910 334-5497 Greensboro, NC 27412 | E-mail: c_marsh-AT- hamlet.uncg.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 15:35:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 18:28:59 -0400 (EDT) From: catdancer-AT- juno.com (Helen Tuzio) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: BACDS Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970408.171230.6743.0.catdancer-AT- juno.com> Good Day, California! It's been a whole 72 hours and so far not a word has been printed about the BACDS ball. I know it was great; it could not have been otherwise with such wonderful talent involved and a lovely selection of dances. But some of us want details. PLEEEZ! Do tell! Helen Tuzio (an eager New Yorker who really would have preferred to have spent this weekend at the BACDS ball - can you tell?) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 19:00:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:53:48 -0400 From: The Dupre Family Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: The Virginia Reel To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BC4530.99AF98E0-AT- ppp25.nerc.com> I almost always end one-nighters by calling the Virginia Reel so I'm delighted to hear there's a historical precedent for it. It's the last thing I do because if there's any traditional dance the average American has run into some way or another, or at least has heard of, it's the Virginia Reel. The crowd always goes wild (more or less!) when it's announced, and it ends the evening at a real high point. Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com ph: (609) 844-0459 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 19:09:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:17:15 +1000 From: Martin Hungerford Subject: Re: Roger de Coverly/Virginia R To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <334C4DAB.5BF7-AT- netcon.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Barbara Ruth wrote: > > Subject: Time: 1:31 PM > OFFICE MEMO Roger de Coverly/Virginia Reel? Date: 4/7/97 > > This is addressed primarily to Beverly Francis, who mentioned the topic in one > of her Jane Austen posts, but anyone who is knowledgable on the subject is > welcome to answer. In your post, Beverly, you said something to the effect that > "Roger de Coverly" (or "Sir Roger de Coverly") was a good dance to do for > Americans not familar with ECD, because they could recognize the similarity of > it to the "Virginia Reel." I had always thought, although I couldn't cite where > I got this idea, that the "Virginia Reel" *was* "Roger de Coverly" simply > renamed. However, after reading your post I started thinking about it, and > realized that I am not at all certain of how the "Virginia Reel" goes, because > my memory of it from learning it in Junior High School is different from the way > I've occasionally danced it in the past few years. I am quite certain that in > the school version we did not do the "Strip the Willow" figure. So my question > is - is there more than one version of the "Virginia Reel" and how different is > it (are they) from "Roger de Coverly?" > Also I have read that the "Virginia Reel" was George Washington's favorite > dance (this one I could cite, except that the book's at home and I'm at work. > That prompted me to speculate on whether the renaming of the dance was in honor > of that particular Virginia gentleman. Anyone know? > > BTW, Jane Austen may not have mentioned that dance in any of her books, but > George Elliot did. In _Silas Marner_ in a wonderful passage about a Christmas > feast for the gentry, the old fiddler comes in and plays "Sir Roger de Coverly" > which is the signal for everyone to get up and start the dance. He also plays > "Far and Away." > > Barbara Ruth To our reading (Australian Bush danceing), Sir Roger is much closer to the Haymakers jig than a Virginia reel. Our virgina reel has a strip the Willow component, which Sir Roger. does not and the Haymaker's has the Sir Roger like corner activity martin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 21:44:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:45:51 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (Fwd) Re: Roger de Coverly/Virgin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704100459.AAA22555-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My apologies if you get this post twice. I sent it last night, but it never showed up on the list. Rich ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > this is, that Sir Roger actually started life as plain old "Roger de > Coverly" and joined the nobility somewhere along the years, much as > that good old mariner Patrick Spens also picked up a "Sir." Any > experts out there who can verify or refute? This is probably more info than you want. But, with much credit to Kitty Keller's "National Tune Index" as a research tool, here goes-- The dance "Roger of Coverly" (no "sir" and "of" rather than "de") first appeared in the 9th edition (1695) of Playford's Dancing Master and was retained through the last (18th) edition (1728). As usual, Walsh also published the dance (1718 & 1731) in his competing volumes. However, the Playford/Walsh dance is clearly a different dance than the Roger we know: "The 1. man go below the 2. wo. then round her, and so below the 2. man into his own place; then 1. wo go below the 2. man then round him, and so below the 2. wo. into her own place_: The 1. cu. cross over below the 2. cu. and take hands and turn round twice, then lead up through and cast off into the 2. cu. place." [Interestingly, Playford first gives the time signature as 3/9. In later editions and Walsh change to the more modern 9/4.] ----- Playford also published a dance to the same tune, called "Old Roger: The New Way" in The Second Volume of the Dancing Master (1713-1728). In the copy in the Library of Congress, someone, in a 19th century hand, has written in "Sir Roger de Coverly." That dance bears a remote resemblance our Roger: "The first Couple lead down and cast up, then cast off and lead down the 3d Couple and cast up. then the first Man turn the 3rd Wo. and the first Wo. turn the 3rd Man, then turn Partners, then go the half Figure of 8 and cast up, and cross over and turn." ------ Thompson published (in 1765) and I believe a different dance to essentially the same tune. Most of us would recognize Thompson's description, complete with something akin to the "strip the willow" figure: "The 1st Man goes down & foot it to the Bottom Wo. ._. the Wo: does the same with the Bottom Man .._. the Man foot it round the Bottom Wo: ._: the Wo: round the Bottom Man .._.. turn the Bottom Wo: .=. so on till you come up to the top then cross over and turn till you come to the Bottom." ----- Sir Roger de Coverly, was one of the primary characters in Joseph Addison's papers, The Spectator" (1711-1714). I understand the papers were mandatory reading for every school kid in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Quoting from paper #2, Friday, March 2, 1711: "The first of our society is a gentleman of Worchestershire, of ancient descent, a baronet, his name Sir Roger de Coverly. His great grandfather was inventor of that famous country-dance which is called after him. . . ." I have an 1880 republication of the Spectator with annotations by George Washington Greene. He adds the follow note: "The real sponsor to the joyous conclusion of every ball has only been recently revealed after a vigilant search. An autograph account by Ralph Thoresby, of the family of Calverley of Calverley in Yorkshire, dated 1717, and which is now in the possession of Sir W. Calverley Trevelyan, states that the tune of "Roger a Calverley" was named after Sir Roger of Calverley, who lived in the time of Richard the First. This knight, according to the custom of that period, kept minstrels, who took the name, from their office, of "Harper. Their descendants possessed lands in the neighborhood of Calverley , called Harperfroids and Harper's Spring. "The seal of this Sir Roger, appended to one of his charters is large, with a chevalier on horseback." "The earliest printed copy of the tune which has yet been traced is in 'a choice collection to a ground for a treble violin," by J. Playford, 1685. It appears again in 1695 in H. Playfords's "Dancing Master." Mr. Chappell, author of the elaborate work on English Melodies, believes it to have been a hornpipe. That it was popular about the "Spectator's" time is shown from a passage in a satirical history of Powel the puppet man (1715)"--"Upon the preludes being ended each party fell to bawling and calling for particular tunes. The hobnailed fellows, whose breeches and lungs seemed to be of the same leather, cried out for 'Cheshire Round,' 'Roger of Coverly,' 'Joan's Placket,' and 'Northern Nancy.'" "Steele owned that the notion of adapting the name to the good genial old knight, originated with Swift.--*" ----- Chappell pushes the date for the tune back to at least 1648 with a quote from the King's Pamphlets describing a quarrel between a Sir Hugh Caverley and Mr. John Griffiths, in Cheshire: "I made the fiddler play a tune called Roger of Caulveley from one end of the town to the other. This I did to shew that I did not fear to be disarmed by them." ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:37:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:39:54 -0500 (EST) From: Jim Morgan Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Simple Circle Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'm looking for a simple circle dance to teach at an outdoor gathering. I know Jumping Joan (maybe too simple), and am thinking a modified Gathering Peascods might work. I've also seen people use Abram's Circle Dance. Does anyone have any other suggestions that would be simple, fun, and at least a little bit traditional? Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:56:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:55:36 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Simple Circle Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970410115536.2e1e-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> For a simple circle dance, I've had good luck with Circassian Circle (sp?) I think it's listed in the Community Dances Manual. If not, many folks on the list can supply the figures. Forbes/Baker ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:21:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:23:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Simple Circle Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704101823.NAA01293-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Depending on how simple you want it you might consider Selenger's Round, Circassian Circle or La Bastringue. You can also do Jovial Beggars as a circle mixer (triple progression). Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:20:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:21:38 -0400 (EDT) From: BHFrancis-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Sir Roger de Coverley To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: BHFrancis-AT- aol.com Message-ID: <970410222044_1387690594-AT- emout14.mail.aol.com> Many thanks to Rich Galloway for tracing the steps of the gallant Roger. When Thomas Wilson published "Sir Roger de Coverley" in his _Compete System of English Country Dancing_ in 1820, he subtitled it "The Finishing Dance" and included the following: "This dance should be the finishing one, as it is calculated to form the sociality of its construction to promote the good humour of the company, and causing them to separate in evincing a pleasing satisfaction with each other." He has a familiar tune in 9/8 time. The figures include the recognizable corners advancing and retiring, but instead of a strip the willow figure, the active couple weaves to the bottom "shoelace" style. There are clearly a few evolutionary steps between this dance and the mid-twentieth century gym class dance. Perhaps someone can help fill in some of the gaps. Philip Richardson, in his _Social Dances of the 19th Century in England_ says "Before the middle of the century the increasing popularity of the Quadrille and the more intimate Waltz and the invasion of our ballrooms by the Polka swept the Country Dance off the floor. The only one that lingered and remained popular, particularly as a "finishing dance" was "Sir Roger de Coverley" and long before the end of the century even this had been relegated to Christmas and children's parties. In America, however, this particular dance survived a long time as the Virginia Reel, and here to avoid long periods of inaction the full set was divided into "Duple Minor" sets, so that all couples were dancing all the time." Richardson's description of the dance being relegated to an item for jolly parties certainly fits in with Mr. Fezziwig's ball in Dickens' _Christmas Carol_ and the other sightings in relatively "rustic" novels. Beverly Francis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 22:34:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:42:21 +1000 From: Martin Hungerford Subject: Re: Simple Circle Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <334DCF3D.46EB-AT- netcon.net.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Jim Morgan wrote: > > I'm looking for a simple circle dance to teach at an outdoor gathering. I > know Jumping Joan (maybe too simple), and am thinking a modified Gathering > Peascods might work. I've also seen people use Abram's Circle Dance. Does > anyone have any other suggestions that would be simple, fun, and at least > a little bit traditional? > > Jim Morgan > morganj-AT- iupui.edu Sir, why don't you try some of the Bransles from Arbaeu. My favourite's the Burgundian Brawl (Bransle de Bourgougne). Simple, quite trad and rather fun. We use it at weddings for people with no background in trad dance to good effect Martin Hungerford of Rackham's Merrie Players ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 08:44:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:45:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "David R. Woolf" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Ashford Anniversary To: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can anyone give me the instructions to "Ashford Anniversary". If possible, I need them by tomorrow (Sat) morning. Sorry for the rush. Thanks very much, in advance! -David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Woolf Emory Eye Center W - 404/778-4121 Emory University H - 404/355-2827 Atlanta, GA 30322 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 11:44:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 14:45:23 -0500 (EST) From: MEAD-AT- BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pinewoods Early Music Week To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IHKZS04OQEHVDWZ1-AT- BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Early Music Week 1997 at Pinewoods Camp Country Dance and Song Society (CDSS) June 26 - July 3 (Thursday - Thursday) Sarah Mead, Program Director STAFF: English Country Dance: Brad Foster, Gene Murrow Musicianship Training for Dance Leaders: Gene Murrow Historical Dance & Violin: Julie Andrijeski Recorder and flute: Ken Andresen,Eric Haas,Judith Linsenberg, Gene Murrow ,Chris Rua,Jennifer Barron Southcott Viol: Martha Bishop,Janet Haas,Larry Lipkis, Sarah Mead,Alice Robbins Early Brass: Mack Ramsey Keyboard & Chorus: Frances Fitch Plucked Strings & Voice: Joel Frederiksen Special Events: Kit Campbell, Julian Cole THEME: Upon a Summers Day - music of the seasons, months and days This summer our dates fall at an unusual time. instead of our usual week in July, we start on the last Thursday in June. In honor of our new month, day, and season, we will focus on music written to celebrate the seasons,months of the year, and special days, drawn from the rich repertoires of the 15th, 16th & 17th centuries. PROGRAM: Nig English Country and Historical Dance classes Beginning viol, recorder, and harp Chorus and small vocal ensembles Morning technique and repertory classes Afternoon mixed ensembles and specialty classes Staff and student concerts Lecture/demonstrations Open readings PINEWOODS CAMP: A lovely rustic setting between two cyrstal-clear ponds Swimming, canoeing, birdwatching Marvellous food, homebaked breads, vegetarian options Evening entertainments A friendly and welcoming community INFORMATION and REGISTRATION: CDSS, 17 New South St., Northampton, MA 01060 (413) 584-9913 - email: camp-AT- cdss.org ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:23:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:24:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary2dance-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970412012451_571635753-AT- emout17.mail.aol.com> David: This is from memory, since we did it Wednesday night. Up a double and back. Fall back and come forward. chorus: 1st woman and 3rd man skip around the set to the other's place while other dancers set diagonally to their right and cross, all turn single. Set to new partner and turn two hands to place. Pat Shaw siding, chorus. Arming, chorus. Mary Luckhardt ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:15:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:16:54 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is in response to Mary2dance-AT- aol.com: One of the great things about internet and all that goes with it is the opportunity to reach a specific audience directly. I hope this reaches everyone involved in any way with English Country Dance: "Pat Shaw siding" is a bad misnomer because he didn't invent it. He, along with many others, discovered it in the 18th-c. dance books whose notation he was studying. So it should be '18th-c.,' or 'old siding,' to distinguish it from Sharp's invention. What Shaw did was to teach it everywhere he went, with the result that anyone who did dances his way learned an old figure without knowing it, and therefore without prejudice! Now if we could just get the terminology straightened out everything would be fine! The reason Sharp invented his siding was that he apparently hadn't seen the original notations; he admitted he didn't know the original figure and so invented something that would fill the time and pass sides. But since it isn't symmetrical we should all have been suspicious of it! Anyway, we know now. So I plead that we should use 'old siding' for all dances from before the 20th century. Julia Sutton On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 Mary2dance-AT- aol.com wrote: > David: > > This is from memory, since we did it Wednesday night. > > Up a double and back. Fall back and come forward. > > chorus: > 1st woman and 3rd man skip around the set to the other's place while other > dancers set diagonally to their right and cross, all turn single. Set to new > partner and turn two hands to place. > > Pat Shaw siding, chorus. Arming, chorus. > > Mary Luckhardt > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:15:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 12:16:54 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Ashford Anniversary To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This is in response to Mary2dance-AT- aol.com: One of the great things about internet and all that goes with it is the opportunity to reach a specific audience directly. I hope this reaches everyone involved in any way with English Country Dance: "Pat Shaw siding" is a bad misnomer because he didn't invent it. He, along with many others, discovered it in the 18th-c. dance books whose notation he was studying. So it should be '18th-c.,' or 'old siding,' to distinguish it from Sharp's invention. What Shaw did was to teach it everywhere he went, with the result that anyone who did dances his way learned an old figure without knowing it, and therefore without prejudice! Now if we could just get the terminology straightened out everything would be fine! The reason Sharp invented his siding was that he apparently hadn't seen the original notations; he admitted he didn't know the original figure and so invented something that would fill the time and pass sides. But since it isn't symmetrical we should all have been suspicious of it! Anyway, we know now. So I plead that we should use 'old siding' for all dances from before the 20th century. Julia Sutton On Sat, 12 Apr 1997 Mary2dance-AT- aol.com wrote: > David: > > This is from memory, since we did it Wednesday night. > > Up a double and back. Fall back and come forward. > > chorus: > 1st woman and 3rd man skip around the set to the other's place while other > dancers set diagonally to their right and cross, all turn single. Set to new > partner and turn two hands to place. > > Pat Shaw siding, chorus. Arming, chorus. > > Mary Luckhardt > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:50:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:51:47 -0400 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "Old Siding" To: ECD list Message-ID: <199704132051_MC2-1433-A1C1-AT- compuserve.com> For Julia Sutton and others on the list regarding the recent post of instructions for Ashford Anniversary... Many ECD callers have been using the term "side by side" for the "old siding" re-introduced into ECD circles by Pat Shaw. Side by side is a very good term-- the sibiliants carry well as a prompt over a crowded hall, it describes the movement succinctly, and it avoids (yet another!) confusion caused when we used to say "old siding," since Pat's introduction of the figure was "new" to many of us who were raised on Sharp's original interpretation (which was "old"). See what I mean? I hope we can standardize on "side by side right" and "side by side left" to describe the symmetric movements. For consistency's sake, we've been looking for a substitute for "Sharp siding." Some candidate are "crescent siding" or "swirl siding." Any others out there? An aside from Gene Murrow, ECD leader and fan of Sharp, Shaw, and Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:20:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gene: The problem with your term for the old siding is that it only looks at the movement of the bodies, and says nothing about the movement's significance. But of course the significance is vital here--partners are SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER! ! ! What your 20th c. desription does hints nothing of this, for it simply places the bodies side by side, thus encouraging the 20th century vogue of no-contact dancing. If you can find a way to say all this in two words let me know! My point is that the flirtatious aspect of this movement must be recognized when it's taught, and reinforced whenever we can do it. As for the objection that people can't relearn chronology when it contradicts their assumptions, my argument is that they can (I did, so . . .), and that talking down to them (essentially your suggestion?) shows perhaps some disrespect for the reasoning abilities of all those intelligent people who can and do learn the complexities of ECD perfectly well! Julia On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Gene Murrow wrote: > For Julia Sutton and others on the list regarding the recent post of > instructions for Ashford Anniversary... > > Many ECD callers have been using the term "side by side" for the "old > siding" re-introduced into ECD circles by Pat Shaw. Side by side is a very > good term-- the sibiliants carry well as a prompt over a crowded hall, it > describes the movement succinctly, and it avoids (yet another!) confusion > caused when we used to say "old siding," since Pat's introduction of the > figure was "new" to many of us who were raised on Sharp's original > interpretation (which was "old"). See what I mean? I hope we can > standardize on "side by side right" and "side by side left" to describe the > symmetric movements. > > For consistency's sake, we've been looking for a substitute for "Sharp > siding." Some candidate are "crescent siding" or "swirl siding." Any > others out there? > > An aside from Gene Murrow, ECD leader and fan of Sharp, Shaw, and Sutton > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:20:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:21:50 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gene: The problem with your term for the old siding is that it only looks at the movement of the bodies, and says nothing about the movement's significance. But of course the significance is vital here--partners are SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER! ! ! What your 20th c. desription does hints nothing of this, for it simply places the bodies side by side, thus encouraging the 20th century vogue of no-contact dancing. If you can find a way to say all this in two words let me know! My point is that the flirtatious aspect of this movement must be recognized when it's taught, and reinforced whenever we can do it. As for the objection that people can't relearn chronology when it contradicts their assumptions, my argument is that they can (I did, so . . .), and that talking down to them (essentially your suggestion?) shows perhaps some disrespect for the reasoning abilities of all those intelligent people who can and do learn the complexities of ECD perfectly well! Julia On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Gene Murrow wrote: > For Julia Sutton and others on the list regarding the recent post of > instructions for Ashford Anniversary... > > Many ECD callers have been using the term "side by side" for the "old > siding" re-introduced into ECD circles by Pat Shaw. Side by side is a very > good term-- the sibiliants carry well as a prompt over a crowded hall, it > describes the movement succinctly, and it avoids (yet another!) confusion > caused when we used to say "old siding," since Pat's introduction of the > figure was "new" to many of us who were raised on Sharp's original > interpretation (which was "old"). See what I mean? I hope we can > standardize on "side by side right" and "side by side left" to describe the > symmetric movements. > > For consistency's sake, we've been looking for a substitute for "Sharp > siding." Some candidate are "crescent siding" or "swirl siding." Any > others out there? > > An aside from Gene Murrow, ECD leader and fan of Sharp, Shaw, and Sutton > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:28:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:29:38 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gene: Further on siding--I'm serious about the need to teach people to flirt! There are some, as you know, who pick this up quite naturally, but my findings with people of today is that they want to think of old dances as devoid of all sexual suggestion! Think of Don Giovanni's seduction duet with Zerlina--without his having to touch her, Mozart's musical gestures convince us that he has! We're talking of a silent but potent body language here that it's up to us, as teachers, to impart. Ahem. Ahem. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:28:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 21:29:38 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gene: Further on siding--I'm serious about the need to teach people to flirt! There are some, as you know, who pick this up quite naturally, but my findings with people of today is that they want to think of old dances as devoid of all sexual suggestion! Think of Don Giovanni's seduction duet with Zerlina--without his having to touch her, Mozart's musical gestures convince us that he has! We're talking of a silent but potent body language here that it's up to us, as teachers, to impart. Ahem. Ahem. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 18:59:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 13 Apr 1997, Gene Murrow wrote: [snip] > For consistency's sake, we've been looking for a substitute for "Sharp > siding." Some candidate are "crescent siding" or "swirl siding." Any > others out there? How about "mooning"? ;) ... just a lunatic suggestion from Eric Arnold, ECD hanger-in-there and fan of Gene Murrow. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:12:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:14:26 -0400 From: mls-AT- panix.com (Michael Siemon) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:00 PM 4/13/97, Eric Arnold wrote: > >> For consistency's sake, we've been looking for a substitute for "Sharp >> siding." Some candidate are "crescent siding" or "swirl siding." Any >> others out there? > >How about "mooning"? ;) Are you deriving that from "crescent siding?" I'm sorry, but I am forcibly presented with the image of callers shouting out, betimes: "Sharp mooning" or "Shaw mooning" -- the mind, as they say, boggles. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 00:03:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:43:31 -0400 (EDT) From: webatcheler-AT- juno.com (Wayne Batcheler) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "Old siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970414.024042.6967.0.webatcheler-AT- juno.com> Gene's suggestion to standardize on "side by side left" and "side by side right" seems very good to me, because descriptive. "Sharp siding" is also perfectly OK as a prompt, and while not descriptive has the advantage of providing an occasion for the caller to pass on some historical lore while explaining the difference between the two. "Swirl siding" doesn't really describe the motion, but rather emphasizes an undesirable tendency to exaggerate the "swoop" beyond the ability of some to control it and return to place in time. And, for me, the word "swirl" is out of character with the other standard prompts and "moon" is just too awful to contemplate. As for Julia's thinking that flirtation is being neglected these days, I would invite her to come to our New York dances. Wayne Batcheler New York ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:02:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:23:53 -0400 (EDT) From: CF1125-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970414142350_-1066807847-AT- emout16.mail.aol.com> I like Colin Hume's term "banana siding" for the Sharp version of siding. What you call Pat Shaw's interpretation hardly matters as long as you flirt while you do it. -Carl Friedman ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:02:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:24:12 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <33529267.50BC-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Julia says that we need to teach people to flirt. I take some exception. We do need to encourage people to interact. Living in a time period in which sex is used to sell everything from garage door openers to toothpaste, I don't think we need to do anything extra to introduce the notion of sexuality into connectedness: once people connect, they will figure out the possibilities on their own. In fact, I think there is sometimes an over-emphasis on the sexual end of flirtation. No, I'm not a prude. But I have encountered several women who find the over-bearing leering of the people they encounter in gypsies to be just TOO MUCH to bear -- especially if the height differences are great. I've also begun to be somewhat apalled at the facial expressions I've seen on otherwise intelligent people when they come to the more flirtatious parts of a dance. There are many ways to enjoy the presence and company of another person. Some of them are sexual and lustful. Others are friendly, companionable, playful, mysterious, polite, joking, inquiring, sedate, pretty, strong. I would much rather help people find the moments to connect, and then let them express themselves in a wide variety of moods - NOT prescribe one style alone. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:02:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:56:02 -0400 (EDT) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970414085601_-1369305152-AT- emout07.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-04-13 21:23:00 EDT, Julia Sutton writes: "Gene: The problem with your term for the old siding is that it only looks at the movement of the bodies, and says nothing about the movement's significance. But of course the significance is vital here--partners are SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AT EACH OTHER! ! ! What your 20th c. desription does hints nothing of this, for it simply places the bodies side by side, thus encouraging the 20th century vogue of no-contact dancing. If you can find a way to say all this in two words let me know! My point is that the flirtatious aspect of this movement must be recognized when it's taught, and reinforced whenever we can do it." Hmmmm, would hearing a teacher say "old siding" put more of a twinkle in my eye than hearing "side by side"? I think I'm missing something here... Julia's point that flirtation was part of historical dance is well taken, but it doesn't seem to be lacking in any of the 20th century ECD communities where I've danced either. I feel the important thing is for teachers to convey the message Julia has in "caps" above, the importance of that old familiar "eye contact" with their partners and fellow dancers. This can at times turn out to be flirtatious or it can simply be friendly. Both are fine, but as a dancer, I want to make that choice myself and not be directed to flirt at a given moment by the teacher. As a prompt, I cast my vote for "side by side". In addition to being descriptive and efficient, there's a pleasing rhythmic quality to it that "old siding" would lack. Carol Martinez ECD'er always ready to smile and sometimes ready to flirt no matter what you decide to call the figure ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:02:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:23:51 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>"Old siding" I believe I have also heard it called as "shoulder to shoulder" left or right, which is equally clear and descriptive. I also agree with Wayne that "Sharp siding" is a perfectly reasonable term, since in this case it was invented by the person getting the credit (and a very fine invention in my opinion). If the objection to "side to side" or "shoulder to shoulder" is that it doesn't explicitly convey directions to dancers to look at each other and flirt during the movement, it's hard to see how "old siding" is an improvement. For that matter, none of the other standard dance terms directly express that - "turn by the hand," "arming," "up a double," "cast" etc. With the possible exception of "gypsy" which is defined as making eye contact (and then you still have to _know_ that is the meaning), all the terms refer to movements. Looking a partner in the eye and flirting are things that are picked up by watching others or are explained in the teaching/walk-through, not explicitly described in the calls. And again I'll echo Wayne and say that if anyone thinks there isn't enough flirting going on at modern English dances, try coming to our New Haven dance. (I throw down the gauntlet - how do we objectively measure flirting per capita, so we can see which can actually test which dance has a higher flirt intensity?) Incidentally, since Julia's last post on the subject, where she pointed out that the point of this kind of siding is to _touch_ shoulders, I have been trying to incorporate that when I can (not always easy when the partners are a foot taller) and it is indeed a flirtatious move. That seems to me to be something for callers and leaders to make a point of explaining during a walk-through. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 14:09:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 09:45:20 -0400 (EDT) From: darby.1-AT- osu.edu (Michael V. Darby) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: virginia reel To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704141345.JAA24277-AT- mail4.uts.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To our reading (Australian Bush danceing), Sir Roger is much closer to >the Haymakers jig than a Virginia reel. Our virgina reel has a strip the >Willow component, which Sir Roger. does not and the Haymaker's has the >Sir Roger like corner activity In Elizabeth Burchenal's 1918 book American country-Dances Volume I, she gives the Virginia Reel using as one of the three offered tunes "Sir Roger de Coverly". This is a 9/8 jig, and presumably the proper tune for the dance "Sir Roger...". I've seen another but similar variation of this tune with the same title in other tune books. The dance begins with figures executed by the head and foot corners (forward & back, swing right hand, swing left hand, swing both hands, dos-a-dos). This is followed by "right hand to partner and reel" -- the strip-the -willow figure, finishing with the head couple galoping up to place. The next figure is "March" and consists of the whole set casting around to place. The sequence concludes with the top couple slipping to the bottom under arched arms to effect the progression. With some variations, usually in the first figures or in the march and progression with arches, I believe this is the way the dance continues to done in most parts of the US. I've seen no instructions for the modern "Sir Roger...". John Fitzhugh Millar notes that the Virginia Reel/Sir Roger may derive from the old dance Trenchmore. This dance (name) is first mentioned in 1564 in a Wm. Bulleyn's play. It does not appear in Playford til 1721. The dance begins with couples leading up (or forward) a double and back. This is followed by a cast off to the bottom and lead back up to the top (the"March"). The next figure is arches of the dip and dive variety, the head couple returning to the top. The last figure is arm right w/ partner and left with the next, i.e. the "reel" figure again with the top couple returning to the top. Playford suggests that this last figure be repeated with hand turns and finally with setting. The dance as described is not progressive. I've seen it suggested that the name Trenchmore derives from Rinnce Mor, an Irish term meaning the "big (great?) dance", though today the term is usually used for circle dances. The dip and dive arches figure does occur in the Irish ceildhi dance "Waves of Tory". If the dance mentioned by Bulleyn had the same figures as the one mentioned by Playford, then Trenchmore/Sir Roger/Virginia Reel is probably not only the most popular dance but one of the longest lived dances ever devised. Not to mention all it's relatives like Strip the Willow, Waves of Tory, Cumberland Reel, Willow Tree etc. Michael Darby Columbus, Ohio ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:14:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:39:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It is particularly useful to have very short (two-word maximum, if possible) phrases for use in the actual calling of a dance, both to help to keep the timing clear and to avoid cluttering up the music with more words than are necessary. For the teaching of the figures, there is room for a few more words without it becoming too much, and the phrases "side-by-side right" and "side-by-side left" seems quite concise and appropriate in the latter context. The other type, for which I haven't yet found the ultimately acceptable term, but which for the moment might be called "half-circle siding" or "parentheses siding", requires a similarly long phrase, and both of these seem lime more than I want to say during the dance itself. Once the figure has been explained, it is a simple matter to tell the dancers what your call will be, and I can imagine saying "side right" or "side left" as a call for "old" siding, and "side over" and "side back" for the other type. The distinction is admittedly small, but at this point the dancers should know what they are supposed to do, and all that they need is a prompt which they can associate with a pre-programmed move. I can imagine saying "side over and back" as a call, even though it's four words, because the "side over" part can be delivered in a timely way to prompt the beginning of the move, and the "and back", even if delivered on the beat that the figure should start on, still doesn't prevent the dancers from being able to start their response with the music. Just as long as nobody writes a good dance using both figures! Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:18:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:19:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: siding terminology To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704142219.RAA20745-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> I prefer to refer to "siding-to-a-line" and "curvy siding" during the walkthrough. Once the dance is going you aren't going to switch which type is being done (I don't think). If the dance is called, then side-right and side-left refer to siding to a line. Just "side" would then be the other type. My personal preference is the linear siding, but we do both in our local group. We try to emphasise eye-contact. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:43:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:39:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704142139.RAA13534-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 08:56 AM 4/14/97 -0400, Carol wrote: >Hmmmm, would hearing a teacher say "old siding" put more of a twinkle in my >eye than hearing "side by side"? I think I'm missing something here... > >Julia's point that flirtation was part of historical dance is well taken, but >it doesn't seem to be lacking in any of the 20th century ECD communities >where I've danced either. I feel the important thing is for teachers to >convey the message Julia has in "caps" above, the importance of that old >familiar "eye contact" with their partners and fellow dancers. This can at >times turn out to be flirtatious or it can simply be friendly. Both are >fine, but as a dancer, I want to make that choice myself and not be directed >to flirt at a given moment by the teacher. > >As a prompt, I cast my vote for "side by side". In addition to being >descriptive and efficient, there's a pleasing rhythmic quality to it that >"old siding" would lack. I also cast my vote for "side by side," though I've heard Colin advocate the term "into line," as in "All move forward into line right shoulder to right." On the other hand, Colin likes the term "banana siding".... (-: Sharon Green (Flirt? Moi?) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:51:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:43:48 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old Siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970414174348.34ac-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> The discussion of siding seems to be missing one curious element. Don't we walk-through or at least talk-through (for the "Those Who Know It" dances) the dance? That's the ideal place to discuss (In ten words or less, please, "For those who know") to let folks know what siding the leader prefers and to drop the two word phrase used to prompt. I don't think siding has reach the 'star wars' phase. That's when four different peopl try to do their right and left hand stars in a variety of ways. There are a couple of area groups that I don't dance with because of the type of the multiple choice hand grips that seem to appear every time. Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:11:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:37:14 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970414173714.34ac-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> As author of the "RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion" would you please identify yourself. This will give your comments credibility. Without knowing who you are, I cannot take your comments seriously. Forbes/Baker University Thanks ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:02:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:27:48 -0400 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704151327.JAA04736-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> >> Julia says that we need to teach people to flirt. I take some >> exception. We do need to encourage people to interact. I agree with Erna-Lynne, encourage interaction in general. I think that teaching people when and where to flirt with someone is like saying "At this point, you need to be spontaneous" Teach people to dance with other people. That is what we are there for, dancing with other people. The nature of the dance and the nature of people will lead to flirtation where it is natural to do so. I have seen lots of people over the years coming at me with these bug-eyes sticking out because someone told them they needed to make eye contact. Rich Jackson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 00:35:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Christine Robb Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: virginia reel To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Michael V. Darby wrote: > John Fitzhugh Millar notes that the Virginia Reel/Sir Roger may derive from > the old dance Trenchmore. This dance (name) is first mentioned in 1564 in a > Wm. Bulleyn's play. [snip] > If the dance mentioned by Bulleyn had the same figures as the one > mentioned by Playford, then Trenchmore/Sir Roger/Virginia Reel is > probably not only the most popular dance but one of the longest > lived dances ever devised. Julia Sutton would be able to give you more precise dates, but I wouldn't count on the Bulleyn reference to be anything like the Trenchmore you described. There are early references to Trenchmore which indicate a three-person dance. Even so, I expect the point is still valid for Western European dance. Christine ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 22:18:48 -0400 (EDT) From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: roger de coverley, literary reference, late as always To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19970414203315.4fc727a8-AT- pop.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" hi all; sorry to come in so far behind cue, but a major mail crash kept me off line for 2 weeks (and oh the horror of my mailbox when i finally got in...) if anyone's still looking (or ever was) for references to Sir Roger, it plays a key role in the Dorothy Sayers' short story, "The Queen's Square." fairly well described, also. maryn mck. atlanta =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= M.A.J. McKenna staff writer, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution 404.526.5987 vox 404.526.5509 fax Standard disclaimers apply. =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:03:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 20:28:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704150028.UAA27760-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:37 PM 4/14/97 -0500, you wrote: >As author of the "RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion" would you please >identify yourself. This will give your comments credibility. Without >knowing who you are, I cannot take your comments seriously. > >Forbes/Baker University Dear John [NOT George, as others have supposed]: Doesn't your E-mail setup provide you with some sort of heading that states such info? Mine does: it indicated quite plainly that the sender of that posting was Erna-Lynne Bogue, a fine dancer, teacher, & CDSS Board member, someone whose comments I'm always interested to hear. Faithfully yours, Sharon Green *Friends on the List: I'm puzzled by this occurrence. Do we get our info packaged differently, depending on our server, the phase of the moon (crescent?), the whims of the gods? I am new enough at E-mail that this is a Mystery to me. Gene and other computer-literate folk, please explain what's going on, okay? Much love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:12:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:11:00 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: virginia reel To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970415121100.2d51-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Use the research of John Fitzhugh Millar with great care. He may be an acknowledged expert in maritime history, but his self-published works do not make him an historical expert in matters of dance. John M. Forbes/Baker University. I.E.: In good dance research, always do the work yourself. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:16:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:10:56 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggest To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>Siding & Sexual Suggestion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As author of the "RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion" would you please identify yourself. This will give your comments credibility. Without knowing who you are, I cannot take your comments seriously. Forbes/Baker University Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Funny, I take the opposite approach. I evaluate a person's credibility based on whether their comments strike me as cogent and making sense, not the other way around. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:33:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:34:57 -0700 From: Bruce Hamilton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: BACDS Playford Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: hamilton-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com Message-ID: <199704151834.AA216729296-AT- hplbh.hpl.hp.com> After our Playford Ball last April 5, Helen Tuzio asked for reports. I didn't think it appropriate for me, as MC, to write one, so I held back to let others speak for us. As far as I can tell, no one has said anything. Now I and some of the other committee members are curious. Those who were at the ball: is there anything you wanted to say but were too polite to post? We'd like to hear it. Write to me or Alisa Dodson . If you write to her soon, she can include your comments in the minutes from the wrap-up meeting. Thanks. Bruce Hamilton Hewlett-Packard Laboratories MS-4AD Phone 415-857-2818 PO Box 10150 Fax 415-852-8092 Palo Alto, CA 94303-0889 bruce_hamilton-AT- hpl.hp.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:37:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:38:54 -0400 From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9704151838.AA20696-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" People don't have to flirt (not that I don't), but people do like to be acknowledged and it would help if folkswere reminded that dancing is done with partners (and a set) and with the whole body. Those who aren't bug-eyed are often looking down at their feet or off in a world of their own. On the terminology front: for folks who know the alternatives, they simply need to know which is operative. I cast my vote with the simplist and least cute -- side by side siding or across siding. Danny Walkowitz > Daniel J. Walkowitz Director, Metropolitan Studies, and Professor of History 285 Mercer Street, rm 703, New York University New York, New York 10003-6607 tel. (212) 998-8091 fax (212) 995-4371 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:59:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0500 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 4th of July weekend To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Details on the Fourth of July weekend at pinewoods which the Boston Centre sponsors are now available on our web site. Our URL is: http://www.math.neu.edu/~gaffney/CDS.html best, Terry ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:09:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NPR Visits CD*NY ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704151905.PAA20664-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In the wake of the New York Times article on Jane Austen & English country dancing, CD*NY has been getting lots of lovely newcomers & also much media interest. (We are the flavor of the month.) Tonight a crew from NPR's "All Things Considered" led by Linda Wertheimer and Lisa Harmon is coming to Duane to cover the final stages of our preparation for the ball (and to view the effects of the influx of beginners on our program). The NPR tentative game plan is to broadcast whatever bits & pieces they come up with some time on Friday, the day before our ball, when the segment will have some topicality. Brad Foster will be with us, and we hope to do some good for all the English groups here in the States by making folks aware that English country happens all over the place. Check your local NPR station for "All Things Considered" and wish us luck. We're bracing ourselves for a possible second influx of beginners, and a new, post-ball English schedule will soon go up on our web site. If you wind up getting hordes of new folks, let us know; if there's anything we can do to help you bring them into the community, we'd be glad to try. Much love, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:45:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:44:35 -0800 (pst) From: afeldman-AT- oacis.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Email systems and author info To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9703158611.AA861129925-AT- ccsmtp.bellahs.com> As Sharon suggested, different email systems show the header info differently. Mine, for instance, does not show me the author unless I click to open another window, at which point the window with the message disappears (how annoying). And with the number of messages that are posted to the ECD list, I'm very glad I don't have to do this on every one, since most messages have a name at the bottom. Thanks to all of you who regularly DO put your name at the bottom of your posts, and to those that don't--some of us would certainly appreciate it! Anise Feldman Novato, CA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:51:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Once again this darned 20th century is getting in the way! Most of the responses to this discussion seem to assume that by sexual suggestion I mean something broad and rather lewd. Heaven forfend! Of course I mean gentle interaction--anything resembling ogling, breast-baring, or hip-swishing would have been forbidden in polite company (and of course we can speak only of polite company when we speak of Playford, who dealt with the upper crust). So I say again, teach people to flirt, or charm, or whatever you may call it, but put flirting in dance into a polite, genteel context; certainly don't take Hollywood as your model! Julia Sutton On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Richard Jackson wrote: > > >> Julia says that we need to teach people to flirt. I take some > >> exception. We do need to encourage people to interact. > > I agree with Erna-Lynne, encourage interaction in general. > I think that teaching people when and where to flirt with someone > is like saying "At this point, you need to be spontaneous" > > Teach people to dance with other people. That is what we are there > for, dancing with other people. The nature of the dance and the > nature of people will lead to flirtation where it is natural to do > so. > > I have seen lots of people over the years coming at me with these > bug-eyes sticking out because someone told them they needed to > make eye contact. > > > Rich Jackson > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:51:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Once again this darned 20th century is getting in the way! Most of the responses to this discussion seem to assume that by sexual suggestion I mean something broad and rather lewd. Heaven forfend! Of course I mean gentle interaction--anything resembling ogling, breast-baring, or hip-swishing would have been forbidden in polite company (and of course we can speak only of polite company when we speak of Playford, who dealt with the upper crust). So I say again, teach people to flirt, or charm, or whatever you may call it, but put flirting in dance into a polite, genteel context; certainly don't take Hollywood as your model! Julia Sutton On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Richard Jackson wrote: > > >> Julia says that we need to teach people to flirt. I take some > >> exception. We do need to encourage people to interact. > > I agree with Erna-Lynne, encourage interaction in general. > I think that teaching people when and where to flirt with someone > is like saying "At this point, you need to be spontaneous" > > Teach people to dance with other people. That is what we are there > for, dancing with other people. The nature of the dance and the > nature of people will lead to flirtation where it is natural to do > so. > > I have seen lots of people over the years coming at me with these > bug-eyes sticking out because someone told them they needed to > make eye contact. > > > Rich Jackson > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:53:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:11 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: virginia reel To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hear, hear! Julia Sutton On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > Use the research of John Fitzhugh Millar with great care. He may be an > acknowledged expert in maritime history, but his self-published works do > not make him an historical expert in matters of dance. > > John M. Forbes/Baker University. > > I.E.: In good dance research, always do the work yourself. > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:53:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:55:11 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: virginia reel To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hear, hear! Julia Sutton On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > Use the research of John Fitzhugh Millar with great care. He may be an > acknowledged expert in maritime history, but his self-published works do > not make him an historical expert in matters of dance. > > John M. Forbes/Baker University. > > I.E.: In good dance research, always do the work yourself. > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:40:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:41:21 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970415163908_1411942875-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> This is my first submission to the ECD electronic conversation. There was a question about more recent publications of the Virginia Reel. The following is done from the cuff and with what books I have in hand. Harris, Pittman and Waller in the 7th edition of DANCE A WHILE recite the connection between Sir Roger de Coverley and Virginia Reel. The book is generally pretty good about scholarship but also phrases things for a college text and gives few references. The authors give the more currently popular version in which partners do the figures. They do list 7 "records" for appropriate music (see page 69). They state that Sir Roger de Coverley "was first published about 1685." I haven't researched the dance to find that source. Henry Ford published Virginia Reel in his editions of American traditional dances, GOOD MORNING, starting in 1926. His instructions have a tune sequence of jig, reel, and march for one round of the dance, a six couple longways with corner figures and the "strip the willow" or "reel." (page 82 in the 1943 edition) He also published a recording of the dance with calls. Lloyd Shaw in COWBOY DANCES (pp. 124-126) uses the Ford version but makes some interesting negative comments about the dance. I don't have a copy of Burchenal to check out Shaw's note about her description of the dance. Grace Ryan in DANCES OF OUR PIONEERS, 1939 copyright (pp. 160-163), gives the corner, six couple longways version but gives a reel, McDonald's Reel, for the only tune. I published an article in Country Dance & Song News, 1982 about my meeting up with the dance in Denmark in 1982 danced to Blaydon Races! For what its worth, Yours truly, John Ramsay e-mail johnberni-AT- aol.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:51:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:51:09 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, webatcheler-AT- juno.com Message-ID: <970415163856_775602138-AT- emout18.mail.aol.com> John Ramsay here! There are some virtues to standardization altho I also agree with MacNeil that . Perhaps the quote makes more sense appearing in a cookbook than in a dance discussion. Tastebuds like nuances of flavor. With standardization of calling or figures in the dance, one can focus more on cultivating personal relationships than on unlearning and relearning often frivolous idiosyncrasies, or sometimes downright mistakes which crop up between callers and communities. The virtue of standardization for dancers is that it allows them to more readily enjoy dancing in a variety of places. A degree of standardization is required for there to be a community of dancers. I am led to endorse Gene Murrow's side-by-side and Sharp siding as seconded by Wayne Batcheler. I was confronted with the problem of two sidings when Pat Shaw brought his interpretation of siding to the United States in 1974. Shortly thereafter I started using Side by Side and Siding for the two interpretation. Was I the first to do this? (not that it matters) But be assured that I would strenuously object to anyone legislating against other terms. I prefer the cigarette approach--convince others with good arguments rather than by making rules. Our society is already too litigious. Three cheers for the freedom brought to us by e-mail!!! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:00:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:58:51 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: "Old siding" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, webatcheler-AT- juno.com Message-ID: <970415163856_775602138-AT- emout18.mail.aol.com> John Ramsay here! There are some virtues to standardization altho I also agree with MacNeil that . Perhaps the quote makes more sense appearing in a cookbook than in a dance discussion. Tastebuds like nuances of flavor. With standardization of calling or figures in the dance, one can focus more on cultivating personal relationships than on unlearning and relearning often frivolous idiosyncrasies, or sometimes downright mistakes which crop up between callers and communities. The virtue of standardization for dancers is that it allows them to more readily enjoy dancing in a variety of places. A degree of standardization is required for there to be a community of dancers. I am led to endorse Gene Murrow's side-by-side and Sharp siding as seconded by Wayne Batcheler. I was confronted with the problem of two sidings when Pat Shaw brought his interpretation of siding to the United States in 1974. Shortly thereafter I started using Side by Side and Siding for the two interpretation. Was I the first to do this? (not that it matters) But be assured that I would strenuously object to anyone legislating against other terms. I prefer the cigarette approach--convince others with good arguments rather than by making rules. Our society is already too litigious. Three cheers for the freedom brought to us by e-mail!!! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:32:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:35:03 -0500 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Colin Hume weekend To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" CDS Boston Centre is sponsoring a weekend led by Colin Hume during the first weekend of May. Colin will be leading our regular first Friday dance on May 2, then leading a workshop on Saturday afternoon and a dance that evening at the Scout House in Concord. There will also be a pot-luck supper before the evening dance. Full details are now available at our web site http://www.math.neu.edu/~gaffney/CDS.html ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:50:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:52:01 -0400 From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9704152152.AA17295-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Can someone tell me a little about Henry Ford (surely not the auto mogul and Americanizer), Lloyd Shaw and Grace Ryan? Thanks, Danny Walkowitz >Henry Ford published Virginia Reel in his editions of American traditional ... >Lloyd Shaw in COWBOY DANCES (pp. 124-126) uses the Ford version but makes ... >Grace Ryan in DANCES OF OUR PIONEERS, 1939 copyright (pp. 160-163), gives ... Daniel J. Walkowitz Director, Metropolitan Studies, and Professor of History 285 Mercer Street, rm 703, New York University New York, New York 10003-6607 tel. (212) 998-8091 fax (212) 995-4371 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:38:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:40:11 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Is there life after taxes? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704160356.XAA08909-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My apologies to all whose kind messages I have ignored over the past week or so. One of these years I'll get taxes done early. :-( Catching up: 1. Thank you everyone who sent info on how to contact Colin. Mary Kay and I will talk to him at the NY Ball. Hope to see many of you there. 2. Flirting. I side (pun intended) with Julia. When we say we want to encourage flirting, we mean we want the dancers to exhibit friendly, gentle interaction. I'm sure that's not the dictionary definition. But we've used the word as a convenient shorthand for as long as I've been dancing ECD. By that definition, we encourage dancers to flirt at every opportunity--with partner, corner, neighbor, folks from the other set, etc. I hardly think that kind of flirting requires sexual overtones, especially since not all of those folks will be of the opposite gender. To be honest, I can't recall any of the callers in our area telling dancers to flirt, at least not using the word "flirt." There are other ways to induce a desired behavior. E.g., in Jack's Maggot, by asking the dancers to count how many people they can make eye-contact with in the hey. I'm sorry to hear that ogling, leering and other overbearing behavior is so widespread. It's sad that the art of subtlety has been lost. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:51:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:52:44 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Washington Ball Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704160408.AAA08947-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I finished the final version of the Ball program for the Washington Spring Ball. (Yes, BEFORE doing my taxes.) I'll send a copy, without the graphics, in WordPerfect format to anyone that wishes. I also would be happy to share a WordPerfect template for ball programs that I created. I'll send it to anyone that asks as soon as I finish making some improvements in it. Just a reminder, the Washington Spring Ball is May 17. If you think you mind be interested, I can send a registration form via e-mail. Speaking of ball programs, the NY ball program is very attractive. Well done! ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:04:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:06:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggest To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Barbara Ruth wrote: > Reply to: RE>>Siding & Sexual Suggestion > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > As author of the "RE: Siding & Sexual Suggestion" would you please > identify yourself. This will give your comments credibility. Without > knowing who you are, I cannot take your comments seriously. > > Forbes/Baker University > > Thanks > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Funny, I take the opposite approach. I evaluate a person's credibility based on > whether their comments strike me as cogent and making sense, not the other way > around. > > Barbara Ruth > Quite. How does just saying that this comes from "Aleister Busheimer" makes a matter of _opinions_ more or less "credible". We are all amateurs in this together! Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:08:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:04:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704160404.AAA00746-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 05:52 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Can someone tell me a little about Henry Ford (surely not the auto mogul and >Americanizer), Lloyd Shaw and Grace Ryan? > Thanks, > Danny Walkowitz > Hi, Danny! Yes, it is The Henry Ford, auto mogul and avid country dancer. You need to talk to the Michiganders who dance at Lovett Hall and other sites in Ford country. I actually own a copy of _Pioneer Collection/Old Time Dances_ which features Ford's Schottische and a number of other dances with the parenthetic comment: (As used by Henry Ford). There's lots of fascinating stuff about *why* Ford found country dancing so appealing--sure to appeal to your historian's mind! Cheers, Sharon [When you referred to this Ford reference at the dance tonight, I didn't know what you meant, because I'd been off hooking up with the NPR folks & didn't get home till now.] ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:55:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:50:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, julia s sutton wrote: > Once again this darned 20th century is getting in the way! Most of the > responses to this discussion seem to assume that by sexual suggestion I > mean something broad and rather lewd. Heaven forfend! Of course I mean > gentle interaction--anything resembling ogling, breast-baring, or > hip-swishing would have been forbidden in polite company (and of course we > can speak only of polite company when we speak of Playford, who dealt > with the upper crust). So I say again, teach people to flirt, or charm, or > whatever you may call it, but put flirting in dance into a polite, genteel > context; certainly don't take Hollywood as your model! I'm sorry to disagree, but reading accounts of ECD over the centuries gives me the impression that, far from being uniformly polite and genteel, dances in earlier times could get remarkably rowdy. I suspect the proportion of louts, leering and lewd, was about the same then as today, and in many eras they gave far more vent to their crudities. Upper crust or no, these folks often behaved in ways that would shame most C&W line-dancing bars. And speaking of bars, there is no question that our current ECD custom of "clean and sober" is peculiar to this century, and to a great extent is peculiar to this century in the USA. At dances in the past, they drank. Often, they drank a lot. The gentlemen occasionally put on ladies' clothing and danced a burleske of the woman's role. There were fights. Brawls. (Named, of course, for the French traditional dance. Evidently the joke, "Did you go to the dance? Did you stay for the fight?" has been around a long time.) People leered. Other people got offended. Sometimes the offenders were slapped. People patted parts of other people's anatomy without invitation. Or with invitation. In short, people acted like people--some behaved well, some badly. The Victorian era seems to have created a filter, that gives us the idea that everyone in the past, especially rich people, behaved like true ladies and gentlemen. It was not so, even in Victorian times. (And it is not so today. If you want examples of the modern nobility, I offer you [in a non-partisan fashion] Sen. Ted Kennedy, or the unfortunate demise of Nelson Rockefeller. But I digress.) No, I don't think instructions like "Now flirt" make sense; it makes most of us feel awkward, and a few behave offensively. I once watched someone who happened to be feeling miserable and mad at the world attempt to follow these instructions; I never thought until that moment that one could ever compose a sentence reading "She flirted grimly" and have it make sense. Looking at partners, smiling at them; we can remind people of the importance of these things. Those who feel like flirting, will. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:25:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 03:23:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Daniel J. Walkowitz wrote: > Can someone tell me a little about Henry Ford (surely not the auto mogul and > Americanizer), Lloyd Shaw and Grace Ryan? Yes, the very same Henry Ford. He was a passionate advocate of country dancing, part and parcel of his xenophobia. The idea was that good American country dances like the Virginia Reel, and good American fiddle music, was a fitting antidote to all the furrin culture pouring in with the new European immigrants. Accordingly, he promoted country dancing and old-time music, sponsoring fiddle contests and publishing dance instructions along with anti-immigrant (especially anti-Jewish) diatribes. (Since a lot of immigrants built his cars, and even more of them made the steel that went into his cars, IMHO this showed a certain lack of gratitude.) Lloyd Show wrote "Cowboy Dances", but I'm afraid I know little about him. And of Grace Ryan I know nothing. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:21:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:20:10 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970416072010.30d5-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> It's been awhile since I looked at anything dealing with Lloyd Shaw vs. (that's the term!) Henry Ford. I don't think the conflict was with Ford, but with the man he brought to Dearborn/Detroit, Michigan to help revive the old time dances. Benjamin Lovett (sp?) came from the east and was a dance master of the old school, at least as represented in his work, "Good Morning" which contains so many of the 19th century set dances. In terms of the general population, Lovett was "precision and social courtesies first, pleasure second." I would characterize Shaw, again for general dancing, as "boisterous, decorous pleasure first, exactitude second." In saying this, I am mindful of Shaw's exhibition team and the wondrous fallout that has generated. Probably the best expert in the field, and a fine caller himself, is Glen Morningstar. Contact him through the CDSS membership list. He has called Lovett's work for years and is preparing, as I write, for the 60th anniversary of Lovett Hall at Dearborn's Greenfield Village, to held (I think) the first Sunday in November, 1997. John Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:02:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:03:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Benjamin Stein <102510.477-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Henry Ford-Lloyd Shaw To: English Message-ID: <970416140326_102510.477_HHM62-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Yes it was Henry Ford the automaker, as mentioned by earlier writers. His Xenophobia, in addition to foreigners (particularly Jews) also extended to Blacks and "jazz". Despite all this his actions helped preserve traditional dance by maintining a demonstration team, publishing books on the subject and recording music for traditional dances. Lovett Hall was named for his personal dance master Benjamin B. Lovett and I would refer you to the book "Good Morning" (I have a copy of the fourth edition, 1943 as well as several 78 RPM Ford records). The cover reads "Good Morning" Music, Calls and Directions for Old-Time Dancing as revived by Mr. and Mrs. Henry Ford. The title page indicates that the manual was compiled and the descriptions written by Benjamin Lovett. The dances included are primarily Contra Dances but there are also 18 "Singing Calls" for square dances, several formal Quadrilles, a number of waltzes, polkas, schottisches and gavottes as well as the steps for the minuet. There is also a dictionary of dance terms and some charming illustrations with the people in 1930's "afternoon" dress. Lloyd Shaw was another matter. In some ways he was the Miss Milligan of Western Style or Cowboy Square Dancing. He directed dance for the University of Colorado and the Recreation Department (not sure if it was local or state) in the late 1930's and early '40s. He had a demonstration team and, evidently deciding that the current approach of "first couple out to the right etc" was rather boring to watch, took all the two and four couple figures he could find and combined them so that everyone was dancing at the same time. He then renamed the figures, the figures having become increasingly complex, so that a new name often covered a combination of figures Thus the original dos-a-dos (or dosey do) became do-pas-o and the new dos-a-dos was applied to a figure that came out of the Kentucky Running Set. Additionally he renamed them with terms that had a Spanish rather than a French intonation. Though he claimed to "collect" cowboy dances, he effectively invented Cowboy, Club level or Western Square Dancing which really took hold in the '50s when someone discovered how well it went to the then current "pop" music. When I called squares in the northern Central States and the Rockies in the early '40s the "cowboys" were dancing to the same traditional "singing squares" that we did in the northeast, even though I had learned some "western" squares from the Lloyd Shaw directions, in the American square Dance Group in New York City several years earlier. Interstingly enough he also introduced contra dancing to the west with the Lloyd Shaw foundation and Don Armstrongs contra dance records that they have published are great for teaching traditional Contras (though they are, by modern standards, VERY conservative, as are the Henry Ford recordings). Benjamin Stein 102510.477-AT- Compuserve.Com. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:36:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:38:21 -0400 From: O_Krasner-AT- ACAD.FANDM.EDU (Orly Krasner) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Henry Ford To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, everyone! I'm fascinated by this discussion of Ford!! I never stopped to think much about him beyond the usual association with cars. Can someone recommend a good biography or something in his own words that covers all these other aspects of his life? I'll add it to my summer reading list! See y'all at the New York ball (and Washington, too)! Orly Krasner O_Krasner-AT- acad.fandm.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:57:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:58:43 -0400 From: walkowit-AT- is2.nyu.edu (Daniel J. Walkowitz) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Henry Ford To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9704161758.AA18908-AT- is2.nyu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Two suggestions. From one of my doctoral students, Stephan Meyer, THE FIVE DOLLAR DAY. Now about a fifteen years old, I believe it is still in print (SUNY, Albany Press). Focusing on the teens, Meyer details the Ford Sociological Department which directed his Americanization program. For a delightful and tellin five-page sketch, see Dos Passos, THE BIG MONEY (the third book in the USA trilogy). Best, Danny Walkowitz >Hi, everyone! > I'm fascinated by this discussion of Ford!! I never stopped to think >much about him beyond the usual association with cars. Can someone >recommend a good biography or something in his own words that covers all >these other aspects of his life? I'll add it to my summer reading list! > See y'all at the New York ball (and Washington, too)! >Orly Krasner >O_Krasner-AT- acad.fandm.edu > > > > Daniel J. Walkowitz Director, Metropolitan Studies, and Professor of History 285 Mercer Street, rm 703, New York University New York, New York 10003-6607 tel. (212) 998-8091 fax (212) 995-4371 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:41:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:41:35 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Henry Ford To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IHRSP6KX029KM1HQ-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Ford bios: Danny Walkowitz suggested Stephan Meyer's THE FIVE DOLLAR DAY and a sketch in John Dos Passos's THE BIG MONEY. I can also recommend FORD: THE MEN, THE MACHINES, which came out within the last ten years, and which is a combined bio of the family, the company, and the men who ran it. I think about the first third of the book is on Henry, and it does talk a fair amount about his historical interests, Greenfield Village, and so on. The scope of the book is pretty wide, but I found the whole thing fascinating reading. (It might possibly be considered off topic in the English Country Dance list that I'm recommending a book which describes how Lee Iacocca invented the Mustang by putting a sporty body on a Fairlane chassis, but what the heck.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 11:55:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 14:56:23 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Siding & Sexual Suggestion To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Paul: You are speaking realistically, and of course I agree with you. Essentially, however, what we put on stage in a reconstruction is an ideal dance--we normally pay no attention to issues such as toothlessness, fleas, smells, drunkenness, etc. (see Hogarth's drawings of dancing in polite society for a good catalogue of them). Playford's audience was conceived ideally, and so are we! If we try to be realistic on stage, then many assumptions must be made of the audience. One thing we can be sure of, however, is that Playford and other dancing masters never gave instructions for lewd behavior. Julia On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Paul J. Stamler wrote: > > > On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, julia s sutton wrote: > > > Once again this darned 20th century is getting in the way! Most of the > > responses to this discussion seem to assume that by sexual suggestion I > > mean something broad and rather lewd. Heaven forfend! Of course I mean > > gentle interaction--anything resembling ogling, breast-baring, or > > hip-swishing would have been forbidden in polite company (and of course we > > can speak only of polite company when we speak of Playford, who dealt > > with the upper crust). So I say again, teach people to flirt, or charm, or > > whatever you may call it, but put flirting in dance into a polite, genteel > > context; certainly don't take Hollywood as your model! > > I'm sorry to disagree, but reading accounts of ECD over the centuries > gives me the impression that, far from being uniformly polite and > genteel, dances in earlier times could get remarkably rowdy. I suspect > the proportion of louts, leering and lewd, was about the same then as > today, and in many eras they gave far more vent to their crudities. Upper > crust or no, these folks often behaved in ways that would shame most C&W > line-dancing bars. > > And speaking of bars, there is no question that our current ECD custom of > "clean and sober" is peculiar to this century, and to a great extent is > peculiar to this century in the USA. At dances in the past, they drank. > Often, they drank a lot. The gentlemen occasionally put on ladies' > clothing and danced a burleske of the woman's role. There were fights. > Brawls. (Named, of course, for the French traditional dance. Evidently > the joke, "Did you go to the dance? Did you stay for the fight?" has been > around a long time.) > > People leered. Other people got offended. Sometimes the offenders were > slapped. People patted parts of other people's anatomy without > invitation. Or with invitation. > > In short, people acted like people--some behaved well, some badly. The > Victorian era seems to have created a filter, that gives us the idea that > everyone in the past, especially rich people, behaved like true ladies > and gentlemen. It was not so, even in Victorian times. (And it is not so > today. If you want examples of the modern nobility, I offer you [in a > non-partisan fashion] Sen. Ted Kennedy, or the unfortunate demise of > Nelson Rockefeller. But I digress.) > > No, I don't think instructions like "Now flirt" make sense; it makes most > of us feel awkward, and a few behave offensively. I once watched someone > who happened to be feeling miserable and mad at the world attempt to > follow these instructions; I never thought until that moment that one > could ever compose a sentence reading "She flirted grimly" and have it > make sense. Looking at partners, smiling at them; we can remind people of > the importance of these things. Those who feel like flirting, will. > > Peace. > Paul > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:51:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:45:28 -0400 From: The Dupre Family Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Dancing at Summer Camp To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BC4AC0.5907F040-AT- ppp7.nerc.com> A late good evening to you all! It's time for my annual extolling of the virtues and wonders of summer dance camp, especially English-American Dance Week at Buffalo Gap Camp outside of Capon Bridge, WV (which is something like 15 miles west of Winchester, VA), July 5-12. This year's program features basic country dancing, advanced ECD, ECD for all, contras and squares, couple dance madness, a dance leadership class (led by Scott Higgs), Cotswold morris, Northwest morris, rapper sword, an early chamber music ensemble, beginning fiddle, advanced music classes, singing, and the mysterious Whaddya Know class. I'd love to tell you more - if you'd like to hear more, please contact me one of the following ways: Work e-mail: dupre-AT- princeton.edu Phone: (609) 258-6252 Home e-mail: dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com Phone: (609) 844-0459 (And, by the way, they tell me the gender balance at this point is almost even too) Sue Dupre Program Director, English-American Week at Buffalo Gap Camp ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 20:58:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:58:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Siding To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <970417035847_100116.165_EHU39-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> I didn't invent the term "banana siding", though I may have introduced in to the States. In my case it's a reaction to dancers in England who regard Cecil Sharp siding as the only real form and dismiss "Pat Shaw" siding (as they would call it) as a modern invention. John Lagden is the best-known Playford-style caller in England, and if he said "Siding" during the walkthrough of a Playford dance and you asked which kind of siding he meant, he would say "Oh, ordinary Playford siding". But he doesn't mean that; he means Sharp siding. However, when I started dancing no-one would have dreamed of asking him which kind of siding, so things have obviously moved on somewhat. I remember being greeted with cries of "Rubbish" in my early days of calling when I suggested that into-line siding was what Playford actually meant. So I tended to say "Into line right shoulder to right" rather than use the word "siding" at all - this prevented people from saying "THAT's not siding!" I expect Mike Barraclough used the phrase "Side-by-side right" for the same reason. Colin Hume ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 05:07:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: JohnBerni-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Virginia Reel and Henry Ford and Lloyd Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970417080827_-468673053-AT- emout08.mail.aol.com> Ramsay here! Yes, Henry Ford, the mass production automobile guy gave considerable time and attention to America's traditional dance. He built a dance hall in Dearborn MI and hired Benjamin B. Lovett as his dancing master. The hall is still in use. Glen and Judy Morningstar hold regular dances there. Grace L. Ryan taught dance at Central State Teachers College in Mt. Pleasant MI. She was (quoting from the preface to her book) "indefatigable in tracing the pioneer dances that are still found in rural sections of our country." Lloyd Shaw is known as the father of the western square dance movement. He was superintendent (?) of the Cheyenne Mountain High School and led a dance troupe there. Many of the troupe members went on to become square dance callers and organized the "club" dance movement. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:44:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11:40:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD on NPR *Next Week* To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199704171540.LAA13858-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A quick note to let you all know that when NPR's "All Things Considered" crew returned to DC, they found that Linda Wertheimer wasn't scheduled to be on the air till next week [Monday at the earliest]. So: The segment on CD*NY's English program will NOT be aired Friday, 4/18/97. It will most likely be aired in the early part of next week, but we don't know exactly when. Lisa Harmon, the show's producer, has promised to call us when she knows for sure. [This may well be on the day of the broadcast itself.] I feel somewhat self-conscious about posting this sort of local-interest stuff to the whole list, especially when things change on us like this. [The girl who cried "Wolf!" syndrome...]. So, if you'd like to be e-mailed individually when I next get the word from NPR, let me know off-list. Or, if you'd like a copy of the broadcast tape when it eventually arrives, e-mail me privately also. Now: Back to Henry Ford, Elizabeth Burchnall, and the Interesting Stuff! Cheers, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 08:57:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:00:12 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: NPR PUBLICITY To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: NPR: to the ECD list and especially sharon green sharon green, hon. it ISN'T just local self-serving anything to want us all to know about the impending NPR feature on the NY Ball. we ALL have a stake in this. remember, we're gonna all be swarmed by the people this free publicity attracts. and even if not, it's enheartening to hear all about it. PLEASE send the info to the whole list. it'll be so much easier. the rest can delete if they REALLY don't want to know sharon "i'm on pins and needles waiting" mckinley, and not an official commentator for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:33:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:32:59 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD on NPR *Next Week* To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>ECD on NPR *Next Week* Sharon, I hardly think that a _national_ radio broadcast on the subject of English Country Dancing qualifies as "local interest stuff." Even if you do insist on being modest about the fact that it is your local dance that is being featured. I put my vote for continuing to inform all of us about this. Besides our own interest in the program, this is an opportunity for great English dance publicity for all of us. I certainly hope that the broadcast will mention that this goes on all over the U.S. and give information for those interested in finding out more or where to dance in their communities - presumably the number for CDSS as a reference source. If nothing else, NPR should have that number to give out if they get calls for information. But I would suggest that all English dance groups contact their local radio affiliate that airs "All Things Considered" and provide a contact number in case anyone phones up the station to get more information. Now, if you can just get them to postpone the broadcast one more week, we could announce it at our regular New Haven dance, and at NEFFA. Barbara Ruth New Haven, CT -------------------------------------- A quick note to let you all know that when NPR's "All Things Considered" crew returned to DC, they found that Linda Wertheimer wasn't scheduled to be on the air till next week [Monday at the earliest]. So: The segment on CD*NY's English program will NOT be aired Friday, 4/18/97. It will most likely be aired in the early part of next week, but we don't know exactly when. Lisa Harmon, the show's producer, has promised to call us when she knows for sure. [This may well be on the day of the broadcast itself.] I feel somewhat self-conscious about posting this sort of local-interest stuff to the whole list, especially when things change on us like this. [The girl who cried "Wolf!" syndrome...]. So, if you'd like to be e-mailed individually when I next get the word from NPR, let me know off-list. Or, if you'd like a copy of the broadcast tape when it eventually arrives, e-mail me privately also. Now: Back to Henry Ford, Elizabeth Burchnall, and the Interesting Stuff! Cheers, Sharon Green ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by QuickMail.Yale.edu with SMTP;17 Apr 1997 11:54:21 -0400 Received: from ssrl04.slac.stanford.edu (SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU [134.79.33.14]) by mail-relay2.its.yale.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA24697 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 11: