Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 06:13:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 09:12:54 -0500 (EST) From: jbeer-AT- juno.com (Jennifer Beer) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 3/4 time--does it fit ECD? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970201.091208.7287.1.jbeer-AT- juno.com> English Country Dancing to waltz tunes seems to be growing in popularity by leaps and bounds -- probably because there are so many splendid tunes out there. At the risk of being pelted by e-tomatoes from all sides, I'd much rather *waltz* to these tunes than try to mesh 3/4 timing with the English Country Dance form. The fundamental problem is that the ECD walk step doesn't fit 3/4 music very well. Unless the tempo is unusually relaxed, dancers have to mince / hurry their steps to put one foot down on each beat. For me, not to be able to stretch out to a full walk step feels both constraining and, if the dance has no rest spots, physically tiring. I often end up dancing Swedish style -- stepping on beats 1 and 3. When I watch the dance floor, I see a lot of the dreaded long-short-short step (because it works!). Others who are doing the three-even-steps look like they're scurrying or doing a tight running step, which doesn't fit the flowing, unrushed mood of the music. And of course many folks simply move their feet with minimal reference to the musical beat. Fried's distinction between the flat 3/2 and the DOWN up up of 3/4, though greeted as heresy by dancers here in Philly, does help fit the step to the music better. If you do take full step, you often need much more space to execute the figures than in the usual longways set. (I'd guess because there are 3 steps per measure instead of the usual 2 -- sometimes an issue with 3/2 dances also.) The 3/4 dances that dance nicely are ones that break out of a tight set formation to give the dancers lots of room to swoop: Wood Duck, Sicilians like Waterfall and Margaret's when there's lots of space, Quite Carried Away, Miss dJ's come to mind. Now, don't get me wrong, I like to do an occasional waltz-time dance. This week we did Quite Carried Away with Bob Pasquarello doing his amazing solo piano improv and it was *exquisite*. We had oodles of space and good dancers. But I'd rather keep 3/4 dances for (literally) an occasional change of tempo at most once a night. 3/2 tunes, on the other hand, fit ECD figures and style of movement beautifully even when danced at the most thick honey tempo. Tunemasters, can we have some more scrumptious 3/2 compositions to tempt our choreographers?--there are so few 3/2 dances that are relatively easy to teach. --Jenny Beer ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 15:15:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 18:15:33 -0500 From: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Heidenroslein To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702011815_MC2-10A5-C93B-AT- compuserve.com> Perhaps someone on the list can shed some light on this other aspect of Heidenroslein... Fried Herman, who boarded at Pat Shaw's house for a time years ago, and who worked with Pat, has always said that Pat never wanted that dance published. She was annoyed that it appeared in the Pat Shaw Dances series published posthumously, and gets more annoyed whenever the dance is scheduled on a program. Further inquiries as to the source of Pat's wishes and Fried's distaste brought forth the story (not from Fried) that Heidenroslein happened to be a favorite of Nazi troops during WW II, oftentimes and especially whistled or sung as they were leaving the scene of some atrocity just committed against "non-Aryans." Fried does not make a big deal of this (and we all know she is capable of making a very big deal of things), but we do not do Heidenroslein at Country Dancers of Westchester events in deference to her sensibilities and Pat Shaw's wishes as he communicated them to her. Does anyone know more about this? Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 07:43:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:43:20 -0500 (EST) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Other dance lists To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 27 Jan 1997, Harold Cheyney wrote: > At 01:41 PM 1/25/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >Now my question: is there a similar list for contra dancers? Can anyone send > >info on that? (Either here or directly to my own email address). > > Ken, > I am not aware of a list but the newsgroup rec.folk-dancing is primarily > centered around contra dancing. And rec.folk-dancing is the same material as the "Folk Dancing" mailing list-- started there, as I recall. Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 08:30:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 16:28:07 +0000 (GMT) From: Rhodri Davies Subject: Re: Waltz and Speed (Was "Elizabeth") To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199702021628.QAA20525-AT- paris.esoft.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.69) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII References: <199701311649.LAA05099-AT- mail2.panix.com> >>>>> "Sharon" == Sharon Green writes: Sharon> At 07:16 AM 1/31/97 -0800, you wrote: >> In 3/2 time each beat has equal emphasis. It is more smooth, with >> no up and down to it. Sharon> A note to add: Sharon> Fried often comments that you should the difference in Sharon> the dancers' movements--in the waltz, the bobbing up and down Sharon> of heads; in the 3/2 dances, the smoo-oo-ooth flow. Sharon> [Orthographic game-playing entirely mine; Fried would probably Sharon> be appalled.] Don't bet on *all* 3/2 dances being smooth. In most cases that is almost certainly a 20th century variation. There are dance scholars on this group who probably know a lot more about this than I do, but I'd drawe your attention to the the 3/2 hornpipe tunes common throughout Cheshire and Lancashire. I have seen it suggested that these grew out of the 3/2 dances that will be found in many of the dancing masters, and remained common in these regions after this time signature became less popular elsewhere. Furthermore, although there is no documentary evidence (that I am aware of) of the actual steps used, there is evidence that it must have been a fairly spectacular and difficult step since there is documentary evidence of people dancing it on tables in Alderly Edge and of advertising for a tavern where they invited you to go and see a black boy who was wondersouly dexterous at dancing the Cheshire Hornpipes. I don't have the exact quotations and references to hand at the moment, but I believe you will find them mentined in some work by Wilf Darlington, published by in one of the EFDSS publications in the last year or so. There are several groups around Lancashire and Cheshire doing a lot of work on this style of music and even some attempts at re-creating the step. The best onethat I have seen so far is tricky to get in the first place but once it is ingrained in your feet you can do most things to it -- I've used it for Cheshire Rounds and Hole in the Wall myself. It totally changes the feel of the dances! Some of the bands here put some real drive behind their 3/2 tunes -- as good if not better than using 6/8 for Drops of Brandy. Rhodri Davies ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 09:59:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 12:59:14 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Waltz and Speed (Was "Elizabeth") To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII To all who are curious about 3/2 vs. 3/4 There is no inherent difference between them today; 3/2 was more common when the minim (half note) was the basic unit of beat (16th and 17th cs.), and 3/4 became common when the quarter note became the basic unit of beat (18th century). Both can be either slow or fast depending on the dance type. The differences you are really speaking of have to do with harmonic rhythm and the usual tempo for a given type of dance, as well as subtler aspects of the melody--that is, in a Viennese waltz the underlying harmonies change on the downbeat, the usual accompanying pattern is an oom-pa-pa, the usual tempo is fast (essentially one beat to the bar, triply divided). They swoop. English and American waltzes (also 19th c.) are slower, with three real beats per bar, and they don't swoop (they're also usually done backwards, turning left instead of right). You've been trying to take your cue from the notation, which isn't the source of the problem! Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 10:12:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 13:08:58 -0500 (EST) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Last Night at the House To: ECD Message-ID: <970202180857_101454.633_IHP138-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> I also like slow dances - especially Colin's - and last night at Cecil Sharp House - we were treated to quite a few. - Colin was calling - so the dance was a must (Making the most of him before his departure across the "Pond") We did his version of Step Stately (5 couples) - so much nicer than the 3- couple version - and the much discussed "Elizabeth" - My partner accused me of Waltzing! - sorry, Colin - I couldn't help it! Then he called "Midwinter" - his latest. If you want a dance with a challenge - this is it!!!!!!!! It took us quite a while to get it - with comments from Colin like "Trust me - I wrote it!" but in the end we successed - well our set did!! (It was worth waiting for our cuppa to do it a second time!) Done to the carol "In a Bleak midwinter" - it's a 4-couples longways - although you wouldn't think so as the set starts in a single line - men facing down, ladies up - like Dargeson. Somehow, during one sequence of the dance, we turned ourselves into a conventional longways - danced with our partner - and then got back to a long line, - although this time the men were at the bottom facing up, and the ladies at the top facing down - we'd all progressed and were ready to start the 2nd sequence - - It's very, very clever!!! Thank you for a lovely evening, Colin Margaret Whaley Don't stop writing them when you get to th'other side. I'm sorry Gold for Brenda isn't one of my favourites, but you know how much I like Winter Memories!! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 16:34:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 00:35:08 +0000 From: Mitchell Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Waltz and Speed (Was "Elizabeth") To: "'ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" Message-ID: <01BC116A.554AC3E0-AT- hmitchell.tcp.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC116A.5553EBA0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC116A.5553EBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rhodri Davies said: Some of the bands here put some real drive behind their 3/2 tunes -- as good if not better than using 6/8 for Drops of Brandy. Well spotted Rhodri. The type of tunes that you mention like the Oldham = Rowling Hornpipe have a tendancy to be in 6/4 rather than 3/2 = particularly with the emphasis on the final two crotchets of the bar. = This fits well with the stepping that Wilf Darlington devised as LLRRLR = within each bar for example in the Red Lion Hornpipe. The two tunes that I mention are from John of the Greeny (or Greene) = Cheshire Way by John Offord. Some time ago I heard John Kirkpatrick = drawing a connection between the tune John of the Greeny Cheshire Way = and other tunes called Jack on (or of) the Green and wondering whether = John of the Green Cheshire Way should in fact be read "John of the = Green", "Cheshire Way". 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Stamler wrote: > Reading the translation: Is that about a rape? Or an encounter with a > femme fatale? Like most poetry, particularly that from masters of the form (Goethe does far more than qualify for this distinction; he contributes to the conceptual definition of a master of the form), there are many levels of interpretation not only possible, but quite conceivably intended. Different parts will be read and understood differently by different people, and all the different possible combinations of of meaning of the separate parts provide a vast range of possible interpretation. For example, we can interpret the rose's (or the maiden's, if we think of the rose representing a maiden) response "Ich steche dich, das du ewig denkst an mich, und ich wills nicht leiden." ("I'll prick you, so that you eternally think of me and I won't be sorry about it" in Emily's rendition.) If we imagine that it is a maiden trying to defend herself against a rape, we might imagine a defense of stabbing (if she has a weapon-shaped object at hand -- a stick, a nitting-needle, a hairpin) or possibly scratching or biting -- the rose uses what it has at hand -- and we might interpret "und ich wills nicht leiden" as "and I won't allow it" or "and I won't suffer that to happen to me". But then we have to wonder why "... half ihm doch kein Weh und Ach" ("...caused him nevertheless no pain nor discomfort" as a possible reading) and "muss es eben leiden" might be read as "(she)had to suffer it anyway." This level suggests a forcible rape, against which the defenses available were not sufficient. But could we not also think if the young, rather wild youth being captivated by the beauty of the maid, and, not having yet experienced tender love, is overcome by lust, and the defense that the rose-maid threatens with is that of Cupid's arrow (remember all of those Valentines with that arrow through the heart?), and though the boy is drawn to her by lust, she will capture him with love, which will never release him. Not that this view is without problems, too, but is there any reason that we should not toy with this idea in reading the poem? We might also do well to understand the social forces implicit in the society at the time of writing. Suppose the act of taking away a maiden's virginity were considered to be the equivalent to a promise to wed, at least if it is discovered, and her weapon is to reveal that he has done this (I have no idea if this makes any sense at all in the German society of the time and place of the poem's creation, but I do now that Goethe wrote very sensitively about the relationships of men and women in the context of their society, and it doesn't seem likely that he would have written something that trivialized rape. So there are my two Groschen. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 18:27:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:27:02 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3/4 time--does it fit ECD? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 1 Feb 1997, Jennifer Beer wrote: > > English Country Dancing to waltz tunes seems to be growing in popularity > by leaps and bounds -- probably because there are so many splendid tunes > out there. At the risk of being pelted by e-tomatoes from all sides, I'd > much rather *waltz* to these tunes than try to mesh 3/4 timing with the > English Country Dance form. > > The fundamental problem is that the ECD walk step doesn't fit 3/4 music > very well. Unless the tempo is unusually relaxed, dancers have to mince / > hurry their steps to put one foot down on each beat. For me, not to be > able to stretch out to a full walk step feels both constraining and, if > the dance has no rest spots, physically tiring. [much additional stuff snipped out] This afternoon at the Lovett Hall dance in Greenfield Village, Dearborn, MI (Glen Morningstar calling; the Michigan Ruffwater String Band playing) we did a dance by David Macemon that was set to a waltz, and while the figures were very smoothly integrated, at the tempo the band played it, it had exactly the character that Jenny describes for the part that was walked -- one was kept very busy taking tiny steps on time to the rhythm, but when it came to the final figure of waltz around the other couple with your partner, the band's tempo was very comfortable. While this event is basically a contra event, the dance itself would fit quite easily into a program of ECD without raising an eyebrow; whether a band used to doing English would have played it slower is hard to know. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 03:57:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:56:30 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: 3/4 - 3/2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F5D26E.39BE-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jenny Beer wrote: > But I'd > rather keep 3/4 dances for (literally) an occasional change of tempo at > most once a night. I agree with her. One (or two at the most) waltz country dance in an evening's program is just fine. It offers a nice change of pace. > > 3/2 tunes, on the other hand, fit ECD figures and style of movement > beautifully even when danced at the most thick honey tempo. Tunemasters, > can we have some more scrumptious 3/2 compositions to tempt our > choreographers?--there are so few 3/2 dances that are relatively easy to > teach. > Again, I agree with Jenny. Few 3/2 dances are in the category for the less experienced dancer. "Cheshire Rounds", "Knives and Forks" are easy though. I can add that almost all 3/2 dances are longways. I miss 3/2 set dances! Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 04:04:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:03:22 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: 3/4 time--does it fit ECD? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F5D40A.BE3-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Eric Arnold wrote: > This afternoon at the Lovett Hall dance in Greenfield Village, Dearborn, > MI (Glen Morningstar calling; the Michigan Ruffwater String Band playing) > we did a dance by David Macemon that was set to a waltz. That dance must be Cynthia's Waltz. It is in Gems. Helene Cornelius introduced it to the Belgian dancers -- it was well received! Personally, I feel that this dance comes in the category of waltz country dances that do allow you to move well and not just take tiny steps. Movements are spacious in Cynthia's Waltz and the lovely tune askas for such long flowing movements, which are there (circle, cross heys, ...). It is of course all a matter of personal taste. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 05:23:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 08:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: FLOWERS (NO DANCE CONTENT) To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: heidenroeslein hmm. it's interesting to note mozart's song Das Veilchen, about a violet in the meadow (male), who sees a maiden lightly tripping through his meadow, and says, ah, if only i were the most beautiful flower of all, until the maiden plucked me and pressed me to her bosom. she unwittingly tromps him to death immediately after, and as he sinks and dies, he says to himself, but i have died through her. poor ole violet. ok, so it's a little different, particularly the form of violence. i never realized them old guys were so good at flower metaphor. sharon "had to sing them lieder in school" mckinley and not an official botanist for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 06:41:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:39:31 -0500 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3/4 time--does it fit ECD? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702031439.JAA01792-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> ----- Begin Included Message ----- Whether a band used to doing English would have played it slower is hard to know. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ----- End Included Message ----- In my experience, if I am working with a band that hasn't played for ECD much, they will often play the waltz too fast for an ECD. IMHO, if you think the waltz doesn't belong in ECD, then you are probably doing it too fast. Almost all of my favorite dances are in 3/4 or 3/2 time. Rich Jackson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:18:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:16:22 -0500 From: Don Bell Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin Hume's 'Midwinter' To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <32F61D66.CA9-AT- crisny.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <970202180857_101454.633_IHP138-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Margaret Whaley described a new dance 'Midwinter' by Colin Hume. It sounded like a wonderful, challenging dance I'd like to try, especially since I've always loved the tune "In the Bleak Mid-Winter". Is Colin planning on publishing it sometime soon? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:55:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:46:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: FLOWERS (NO DANCE CONTENT) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > ok, so it's a little different, particularly the form of > violence. i never realized them old guys were so good at flower > metaphor. Oh yeah, flower metaphor. In times past there was an entire symbolic vocabulary for flowers, called the "language of flowers", and this was well-known to both the intelligentsia and the common people. Hence in both Shakespeare and traditional songs, we hear elaborate symbolism wound around thyme, violets, roses, etc. etc. etc, which had specific and concrete meanings to the singers. (And by the way, this symbolic language was transnational; the same metaphors show up all over Europe and even in parts of India, perhaps indicating a Romany origin or transmission.) Back to "Heidenroslein"; the more I look at it, the more I think the poem's drama is couched in the flower-language. In this language, "rose" symbolizes Love itself, so the young (presumably naive) man is announcing he will seize Love, and Love announces it will prick him, etc. etc.. This rings more believably for me, given the familiarity of romantic poets with this well-known symbolic language, than any literal interpretation. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:01:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 19:04:29 +0100 From: Martin.Sheffield-AT- wanadoo.fr (Martin Sheffield) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Heidenroeslein To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" "... half ihm doch kein Weh und Ach" My school memories tell me this means: It was no use his moaning and groaning (ie: pleading with her), he just had to put up with it (her rejection). For me, it was just the simple account of unrequited love. When I was at school, rape was a tabou subject, but I don't think that was the reason why it wasn't mentioned in connection with this poem. I wonder if, today, when nothing is tabou, the interpretation of "ich steche dich" would be "(if you take me) I'll give you AIDS" ...? And moaning and groaning did him no good -- once he'd caught it, he just had to put up with it. Anderthalb Groschen. Yours, Martin, Grenoble, France. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:05:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:04:02 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin Hume's 'Midwinter' To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It appears that again we have the situation of more than one new dance to a particular tune, with Colin's "Midwinter" to the Holst carol "In the Bleak Midwinter", which was also the tune of choice and, I believe, the inspiration for Robin Hayden's dance by the same name as the carol, created, I think, during the bleak midwinter a year ago, and possibly in the publication queue for CDSS News. This is bound to happen, as the interest in writing new dances increases, and while not everybody who does ECD feels that just one dance should be associated with a particular tune (note that the other way around, i.e. more than one tune to a dance, is somewhat more acceptable by many), some people feel rather strongly that it is important to keep the association of particular moves with a certain tune firmly in place in the interests of minimizing confusion and as an aid to dance memory, and it seems to me that they have a point worth considering. Recently there has been some discussion about this on this list with respect to different dances to "Jump at the Sun" and "Early One Morning". In one case, I understand, a new dance from Britain, "Winter Solstice", originally done on this side of the Puddle to "Early One Morning" (which already had two fine dances recently composed to it on opposite sides of said Puddle, one by Scott Higgs and one, I believe, by Ernst van Braekel (sp?)), has had a new tune created especially for it, and that seels like a very appropriate way to deal with this, if it is really an issue that needs to be dealt with. It seems likely that one dance will tend to dominate over the other in a way that seems a bit unfair to the one not selected, particularly if it is not the fault of the dance itself that it has not become widely known before another one comes along to displace it. On the other hand, people are certainly free to write dances to whatever tunes inspire them, and of course it is impossible to know of all of the newly-created dances soon enough to prevent people from using the same tune even if they tried to avoid doing this. While there may be an appropriate selection process at work in that dancers will prefer one dance to another, and that preference will have a lot to do with which dance ultimately gets to claim the disputed tune, other factors which have very little to do with the merits of the dances themselves will also influence this choice. I'm interested in knowing what others think about this. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:35:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3/4 - 3/2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Again, I agree with Jenny. Few 3/2 dances are in the category for the >less experienced dancer. "Cheshire Rounds", "Knives and Forks" are easy >though. I can add that almost all 3/2 dances are longways. I miss 3/2 >set dances! > > >Philippe Callens "St Margaret's Hill" and "The Old Mill" are gorgeous 3 couple set dances in 3/2. Gary Rudman's "A New Beginning" is a 3 couple set dance which is actually in 3/4 but the tune (by Purcell) was written as a minuet, and if its played as such, the dance doesn't turn into a waltz. " The King's Maggot" and "Orleans Baffled", which are 3/2 triple minors can be danced as 3 couple sets very nicely. Enjoy! Vicky ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:46:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 10:46:01 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: 3/4 - 3/2 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IEZ5OP3X56BJX9DH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Vicky Bestock wrote -- >> >>Again, I agree with Jenny. Few 3/2 dances are in the category for the >>less experienced dancer. "Cheshire Rounds", "Knives and Forks" are easy >>though. I can add that almost all 3/2 dances are longways. I miss 3/2 >>set dances! >> >> >>Philippe Callens >"St Margaret's Hill" and "The Old Mill" are gorgeous 3 couple set dances >in 3/2. Gary Rudman's "A New Beginning" is a 3 couple set dance which is >actually in 3/4 but the tune (by Purcell) was written as a minuet, and if >its played as such, the dance doesn't turn into a waltz. " The King's >Maggot" and "Orleans Baffled", which are 3/2 triple minors can be danced as >3 couple sets very nicely. Enjoy! >Vicky I agree with Vicky that "St. Margaret's Hill" and "The Old Mill" are gorgeous 3-couple set dances, and the former works pretty well for a group with many beginners in it, although it helps to have folks who are sure about the difference between right and left. I think "Old Mill" is a bit more challenging, with some unusual figures, so I'd agree with Philippe that it's not for 'less-experienced dancers'. I'll look up "A New Beginning," which I think I recollect seeing in 'Sum Further Calculated Figures.' I called Gary Roodman's "Wibsey Roundabout" for the first time last Wednesday, incidentally, and was pleased to observe what a well-made dance it is. I didn't find it obvious on the page, but in execution it's quite flowy, with each figure leaving the dancer in little doubt about where to go next. (It also looked as though it would be fun to watch from above. As a bonus, the dancers seemed to like it too.) Vicky, is "The King's Maggot" in print anywhere I'm likely to find it? I don't think I've ever even heard of it. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:40:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:39:23 -0500 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702031939.OAA01858-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Eric Arnold expressed concern over having more than one dance written for a given tune. There is an extensive history of this sort of thing. I am not a dance historian, but I have seen at least five versions of the dance "Excuse Me", which I understand was a popular tune in the 1700's. Look at the tune Lilliburlero, ECDs, Morris dances, Longsword dances, etc., etc. I agree with the basic concept of One Tune per Dance, although I am not going to stop musicians from ocassionaly trying out a different tune. In an ideal world, I suppose One Dance per Tune is probably preferable, but I wouldn't want to stifle the creativity of a dance composer by saying, "Sorry, that tune is taken." Rich "I claim Jump at the Sun for my dance" Jackson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:42:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:42:23 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: goals for newish ECD group To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702031942.NAA12212-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> I'm involved in running an ECD group in Champaign, IL. We've been more or less formally organized for about 1 1/2 years now. Our initial goals were pretty clear cut; find a space to dance in, set a schedule and promote the dances, organise the loose collection of musicians into a band, find rehearsal space, work on building a repetoire of basic dances and hold a Ball at the end of the season. This has worked out well and now we have a core group of dancers (not as big as I'd like, but OK), a band going along very well, monthly dances scheduled with a few extra thrown in, and we've held two Christmas Ball and a Playford Ball. My question is, what sort of short- and long-term goals should be have now? Obviously we want to maintain what we have and build our attendance, but what other things might we be working on? What should we keep in mind when setting up the programs for future dances? Any advice on directions to take or goals to strive for? Thanks for any thoughts or tips. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:48:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:46:31 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Heidenroeslein To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Martin Sheffield wrote: > "... half ihm doch kein Weh und Ach" > > My school memories tell me this means: > It was no use his moaning and groaning (ie: pleading with her), he just had > to put up with it (her rejection). Ah, Martin, that makes more sense than my reading. I had assumed that the following line, "(subject) muss es eben leiden" kept the same subject as the beginning of the poetical "sentence", namely, Roeslein. With your reading, however, I find that I have to put (subject) = boy, and that hadn't occured to me before, partly because I thought it was saying that the rose had to suffer in spite of her determination not to. > For me, it was just the simple account of unrequited love. > > When I was at school, rape was a tabou subject, but I don't think that was > the reason why it wasn't mentioned in connection with this poem. That would certainly be more in character with other works by the esteemed author. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 11:51:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:51:27 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702031951.NAA17137-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Does anyone have any thoughts on ways to get contra dancers to give ECD a try? While there is cross-over between contra and English it seems to me that there are many contra dancers (locally at least) who assume they won't like ECD and thus are unwilling to try it. I always feel if they'd try it they'd like it, but how to get them to try it? Any suggestions on aspects of ECD we can highlight to entice contra dancers to come to the English dance? Later this month our local ECD band (The Flatland Consort) will be playing at the local contra dance. I'll be calling and I'd like to do a couple of English dances during the evening. Does anyone have any suggestions for dances which will show the contra dancers just how enjoyable ECD is? I'm thinking of longways, duple minor dances which are very smooth and flowing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:05:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:04:32 -0400 From: howardm-AT- mitre.org (Howard A. Markham) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin Hume's 'Midwinter' To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9702032004.AA32377-AT- mail90.mitre.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In response to Eric Arnold's comments about more than one dance for a tune: >It appears that again we have the situation of more than one new dance to >a particular tune, with Colin's "Midwinter" to the Holst carol "In the >Bleak Midwinter", which was also the tune of choice and, I believe, the >inspiration for Robin Hayden's dance by the same name as the carol, >created, I think, during the bleak midwinter a year ago, and possibly in >the publication queue for CDSS News. > >This is bound to happen, as the interest in writing new dances increases, >and while not everybody who does ECD feels that just one dance should be >associated with a particular tune (note that the other way around, i.e. >more than one tune to a dance, is somewhat more acceptable by many), some >people feel rather strongly that it is important to keep the association >of particular moves with a certain tune firmly in place in the interests >of minimizing confusion and as an aid to dance memory, and it seems to me >that they have a point worth considering. It seems to me that the most satisfying dances are those that fit the tune so closely that you cannot imagine doing them to another tune, nor another dance to the tune. At the same time, I can more easily imagine the creation of another dance that fits the tune as well as the first and is as pleasing for its dance qualities than I can imagine finding another tune that fits either of the dances as well and is as good a tune. I have heard various attempts at introducing alternate tunes for familiar dances, but have never heard one that satisfied (of course there were other dancers who didn't mind or perhaps thought it did succeed). However, going the other direction (new dance to old tune with good dance) seems to have been carried off nicely in a number of cases, my favorite probably being Colin Hume's Mayfair. This topic may be analogous to writing songs or operas--is it better to find a good text and write a tune to it, or write a tune and fit some words to it? As I recall, there have been good composers and lyricists on both sides, just as some people find geometry easier, some algebra (I don't propose that we carry this analogy further). > >Recently there has been some discussion about this on this list with >respect to different dances to "Jump at the Sun" and "Early One Morning". >In one case, I understand, a new dance from Britain, "Winter Solstice", >originally done on this side of the Puddle to "Early One Morning" (which >already had two fine dances recently composed to it on opposite sides of >said Puddle, one by Scott Higgs and one, I believe, by Ernst van Braekel >(sp?)), has had a new tune created especially for it, and that seels like >a very appropriate way to deal with this, if it is really an issue that >needs to be dealt with. In principle I would be happy to have two good dances to Early One Morning or any other good tune. In fact, I have only done Scott's, which I like immensely. I suspect that in most cases of multiple dances one would emerge as the preferred one. Also, if there were very much of this, it would change the complexion of ECD as we have known it over the years, and I'm not sure I'm ready for that. But if it were to happen, I would find that preferrable to the situation that we have in contra and Scottish, where "any good jig" is a sufficient indication of tune. Of course, in SCD, there is usually a "name" tune for a dance, and often it fits the dance better than other tunes. In contra dancing, there are usually a number of tunes that fit a dance well, although some of the older dances do have a "name" tune that seems particularly right. > >It seems likely that one dance will tend to dominate over the other in a >way that seems a bit unfair to the one not selected, particularly if it is >not the fault of the dance itself that it has not become widely known >before another one comes along to displace it. On the other hand, people >are certainly free to write dances to whatever tunes inspire them, and of >course it is impossible to know of all of the newly-created dances soon >enough to prevent people from using the same tune even if they tried to >avoid doing this. While there may be an appropriate selection process at >work in that dancers will prefer one dance to another, and that preference >will have a lot to do with which dance ultimately gets to claim the >disputed tune, other factors which have very little to do with the merits >of the dances themselves will also influence this choice. I am optimistic that over time the selection process will favor the most meritorious dances by and large. In the near term, such factors as publisher, callers and musicians the writer knows, whether the writer is a caller who serves on camp staffs, etc can have a larger effect than the intrinsic worth of the dance. Another aspect is that, after every dance has had a fair exposure of its qualities, different preferences may develop in different communities or countries. For example, this seems especially likely between American and English dancers, where distinctive ECD esthetics seem to be at work. > >I'm interested in knowing what others think about this. > >Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor Howard Howard A. Markham, Mail Stop W432, The MITRE Corporation. (703) 883-5731 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:13:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:13:22 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Thanks to Alan To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702032013.PAA14105-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'd like to thank Alan for all he's done for us in making the ECD list happen. Alan, I really love this--it feels as if all the conversations that you mean to have while you're at dance camp but that you seldom have time for are actually happening, and, as I sit here churning out manuscripts for my publisher, it's a joy to take a moment out for a joke from Gene Murrow, or a digression from Sharon McKinley, or an erudite note from Julia Sutton. Much fun! Many thanks, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:13:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:13:31 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IEZ8O3FR9UBJWBF7-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- Actually, I'd been meaning to enquire whether contra/english antipathy was as strong elsewhere as it sometimes seems to be in California. [Actually, most of the BACDS contra-dance callers do English dancing and there isn't any institutional problem, but there are some number of contra dancers who actively discourage people from checking out English dances. Every so often a new english dancer says something like "I don't know why they said this wasn't fun!" In Southern California, I am given to understand, the problem is considerably worse, and some contra callers decline to announce local English dances, although this is not necessarily overtly because they *are* English dances.] Anyway, I don't yet have a good answer for Jonathan's general question of how to entice contradancers to try out English dancing, and would like to hear some, but I have a couple of ideas for English dances to call at a contra dance. 1) "Joy of motion" kinds of dances, which is what I think Jonathan was asking for. "Female Saylor" "Jack's Health" "Dublin Bay" "Knole Park" "Young Widow" [Lots of balances] 2) Another approach would be to do something *really* different, like a dance that isn't a jig or reel. Avoid the sissy, but something dreamy like "Well Hall" "Wood Duck" "Northdown Waltz" "Duke of Kent's Waltz" might go okay. 3) You could even do a Playford-style dance if it didn't take too much teaching, and especially if it had a killer tune. If the Flatland Consort can really punch it, I'd suggest Ashford Anniversary (with side-to-side siding; quicker to teach). I speak from an entire absence of experience here. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 12:33:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:31:24 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII One way to try to sell ECD to contra dancers would be to try to convince them that they will have more fun doing contras (because they will probably become better dancers, not because, like hitting your head against the wall, it feels so good when you stop). Particularly the more difficult contras yeild their charms more readily to contradancers with experience doing ECD, and when you get a whole bunch of ECDers doing contra, boy, does it really flow! Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 13:49:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:48:48 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Praetzel Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702032148.QAA06440-AT- watt.uwaterloo.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Actually, I'd been meaning to enquire whether contra/english antipathy > was as strong elsewhere as it sometimes seems to be in California. When I first saw this I was thinking of apathy. Around here contra dancing is about the biggest thing (if you don't include C&W line "dancing"; and IFD ; ie non-social dances). EC dancing is pretty insignif. with one ball/year. London actually has a "contra" dance that looks, smells and feels like EC! But don't tell anyone that :) I'll take a guess. EC dancing is not contra if you define EC dances as being the style of dance which has verseii and corii; as opposed to progressive contra dances with a trivial 32 bar pattern. I used the word trival to light a few sparks. Some people like to flirt when the dance (fancy that!) and tossing them into 3 couple minor dances with couples 2 and 3 alternating roles pretty well kills all of that. Some people like complexity in dances and other like simpler dances for the joy of interacting with people. By far one of the biggest factors up here is how much fun the people are. Canned music and stuck up dancers repel people. Having people in the same age range in an attraction (as much as I love square dancing; I'm not hot on doing it with people who are on average 35 years older than myself). In certain places (Ann Arbor, Boston, ...) there are so many forms of dance that people can get their fill with just one or two types. In other areas (like up here) I switch between Irish, contra, square, Playford (EC), Vintage and a smattering of ballroom/Scottish because I want to go out and dance. My limitation is if I'm willing to spend more time driving than dancing (ie very few dances are within a 1 hour drive). > , but there are some number of contra dancers who actively > discourage people from checking out English dances. I certainly hope that people don't go that far. But they may do it for the reasons above. I will tell people about certain dances places and my experience with them; but not in a such a way as to discourage them from at least going and verifying my experience. One C&W line "dancer" that I know was really proud of having commited to memory in excess of 60 dances. It seems to me that the good contra dancers never really learn any dances because we don't do the same ones very often. EC dances can be called but most of the time I've seen them taught and later danced at a ball. Any calling would be in the order of "mens hay", "cross-over hay" or sort of a macro command that covers a fairly large number of steps. The only analog I can think of in contra is when they call contra corners. Irish dancing is a curiousity because in the set dances one set of couples is inactive for quite a while. That means that the active couple usually has to know a lot more than 32 bars of music. Also set dances with 5 and 6 versii are pretty common. Whenever they teach them at a Ceili they usually teach one verse at a time and they never attempt to let the dancers do 2 in a row. Different people like different things. I can't see EC and contra as the same type of dance other than that they are "walked". Around here the one nice thing about the rare EC/Playford dances is that they are typically done with a workshop followed by a costume ball. The costume aspect tends to attract a different type of dancer yet again :) - Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:41:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:43:32 -0600 (CST) From: Tom Roby Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Other dance lists To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9702032243.AA13724-AT- conley.math.wisc.edu> > And rec.folk-dancing is the same material as the "Folk Dancing" mailing > list-- started there, as I recall. This was true, but the FDML no longer exists (as of last summer). Terry Wood no longer has time to publish it, so the only access to that information is the the newsgroup. Tom ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 14:57:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 17:53:39 -0500 (EST) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Folk Dance Band Tour To: ECD Message-ID: <970203225338_101454.633_IHP94-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Blue Mountain Band - a well known English Folk Dance Band is going over to the States in mid July, for a festival in Salt Lake City. They would very much like an opportunity to play for some events after the festival, towards the end of July - before they return to England - to finish off their tour. They specialise in Playford and English styles, but are quite adept at American Squares and Contras. - I can thoroughly recommend them ( They are actually playing for our club's weekend in May) Their leader is Rick Smith - and he can be contacted as follows: Phone No: +44 01844 352468 Address: 51 Elderdene Chinnor Oxon OX9 4EJ England Or if you would like to contact me through e-mail: margaret-AT- mdwhaley.demon.co.uk I will pass your message on. Thanks Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:39:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 17:58:07 -0500 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702032338.SAA91420-AT- mule0.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:31 PM 2/3/97 -0500, eric arnold wrote: >One way to try to sell ECD to contra dancers would be to try to convince >them that they will have more fun doing contras (because they will >probably become better dancers ...) > when you get a whole bunch of ECDers doing >contra, boy, does it really flow! > overheard at an Atlanta ECD mtg a year ago, said by a longtime contra dancer/ECD newcomer to one of the Atlanta callers: "all contra dancers should learn English; this really teaches you to count!" shortly afterward, still mulling over the implication that some dancers don't count, i went to the contra-ECD-and-some-squares Brasstown Spring Weekend; it was the first time i'd been to a dance where at least half the room had no ECD exposure. the difference really *was* marked - they'd get to the end of a move beats before the end of a phrase and then look puzzled that there was nothing to do, because contra conditioned them to expect a swing there. a couple other folks in attendance (ECD dancers with years more contra experience than me) suggested that contra rewards rushing, because the faster you get there the more time you have to swing ("Swing," one guy declared, "is dessert."). but if that's so, that makes ECD a tough sell to at least some primarily-contra dancers, because ECD so much rewards careful matching of the movement to the phrase. i wonder how one explains that, or if one tries. (similarly for the person who's attracted to contra for the chance to spend an evening putting their arms around many different members of the gender-of-their-choice; the partnering-by-the-eyes that makes ECD so subtle and entrancing may be a tough sell to them also.) puzzled, but not enough to stop me wittering, maryn mck. atlanta ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:53:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:56:48 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ideas for attracting contra dancers to English 1) Give them English dances which have some relatively obvious connection to contra so that they are not totally in a new context. Longways dances that go at a quickish pace are good. One which are quite slow (and so have an entirely foreign mood), or don't progress are hard for contra dancers to understand at first. 2) Give them dances which have something to chew on in the music and in the dance. Indian Queen may be the easiest dance around, but to a contra person, it's just a slow-moving contra without the swing and a dippy tune. Something like Jack's Health, equally easy, gives them a bit more musical feel. Something which has the flow of a good contra dance (Jim Kitch's Lovers Knot) or lots of drive and two hand turns (Colliers Daughter) is good for this. 3) When you do give them a dance for small sets, it's nice to have it be a progressive one (Kelsterne Gardens, Fandango) so that all get a chance to try it, and they can have a second shot at getting it right. 4) BE SURE to teach & show the interactions: how you approach one person but turn another, or the approach-avoidance conflict between partners, or whatever. Contra dancers seem to have an allergy to being told "this is the right style" but can be persuaded to use good style when it's explained as the easiest way to follow this interesting plot line. 5) MOST IMPORTANT: Let your own enthusiasm for ECD break out, and don't teach with the assumption that many of them will dislike it. I once heard a caller say, "You may have disliked English is the past, but let's give it another try." This amounted to saying, "I've picked something you will probably dislike; bear with me." If you can instead say, "This is a different kind of dancing that gives you a chance for a completely wonderful experience of a kind you've never had contra dancing" it's a totally different approach. Good luck Jonathan! I'm rooting for you. Erna-Lynne ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 15:53:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:56:53 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dance Composition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Following are some sections of the handout I used for a dance composition workshop last weekend. The workshop focused on composing contra dances, so these notes assume a duple minor set, and ignore the broader range of formation, meter, and style that we are blessed with in English dance. However, I think many of them apply ... I'd be interested to hear what others would add to (or subtract from or differ from) in this quickie listing of opinions and methods. ----------------------------------------- TO MAKE DANCE ENJOYABLE 1) Transitions between figures should not be awkward, but may be challenging. 2) At least one nice moment or interesting figure to focus on; not too many. 3) End of dance flows well into beginning. 4) All of a figure usually occurs within the same phrase or sub-phrase, not crossing from one phrase to the next. PLOT LINE 1) May focus on partner or others. 2) May "lose and find" or hang on to partner. 3) May travel around the set or stay with original foursome. 4) May be choreographed with a particular / local dance style in mind. MATTERS OF TASTE 1) Even (actives & inactive roles quite similar) or uneven (actives & inactives differ a lot) 2) Men or Women take lead in many figures or have solo role 3) Dance is physically demanding or relaxed 4) Dance gives time to correct errors (forgiving) or requires much accuracy. "Take out ratio" is number of couples that can break down when one couples makes an error. COMPOSITION PRACTICES / METHODS 1) Select a single move or figure that you like. Decide who gets to execute it. Provide good lead in and exit from that figure. 2) Select mood. Imagine figures for that mood. Try combinations of those figures. 3) Walk a figure with music playing. Consider: what could I do next? Try alternatives. 4) Consider plot line. What moves give that plot? THEN ADD FIGURES TO FILL OUT DANCE LENGTH, CHECK PROGRESSION. TWEAKING / EDITING 1) Decide best place in sequence for start, end. 2) Dance all 4 roles to check for awkward spots. 3) Consider figures with similar movement but different moods (dosido / gypsy? circle / star) 4) Does dance have a signature that makes it interesting? Does it feel like glossary? ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:13:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:29:55 +0000 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <855009043.523451.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> > Different people like different things. I can't see EC and contra as > the same type of dance other than that they are "walked". This whole thread interests me because it's a discussion that just wouldn't happen in England. We make much less of a distinction between Playford (the term we use to refer to English Country Dance) and American contras and traditional style squares. When I'm booked for a Saturday night club dance I will usually be asked to present a mixed programme - some Playford, some contras, some squares, some traditional English dances (although not so many of them, people really don't like to step these days). With the possible exception of patter and singing squares I use I very similar set of calling / teaching techniques for all of them. Whilst it's quite possible to dance nothing but Playford over here, and probably just about possible to do nothing but contras or squares it's pretty rare - there's much less of a split between Playford and contra (there is however a split between Playford / contra and ceilidh dancers but that's another thread). I feel that there are advantages and disadvantages to this lack of a split. I like dancing and calling a mixture of styles - I get to pick the 'best' (in my opinion) dances from each style. There are times when I'm worried that we are in danger of just creating a mid atlantic 'mush' of American and English dances and music without a clear distinction between each style. I have no good conclusions to draw from any of this, it's just a few random late night thoughts. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 18:46:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 21:47:33 -0500 From: mgoodman-AT- albany.net (Mary Beth Goodman) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Some people like to flirt >when the dance (fancy that!) and tossing them into 3 couple minor dances >with couples 2 and 3 alternating roles pretty well kills all of that. hmmmmmmm since when has that ever been a problem? Ahem - but seriously..on the topic at hand.... I've run into a similar attitude to that being discussed. Most of it on the contra side stems from the misconception that English dance is PRISSY. I would love sometime to go back in time to where people GOT this idea, but since it seemed for awhile to be a widely held feeling, I have to assume it did not fall from the sky, but came from some demonstration somewhere, sometime. Unfortunately, this prissiness appears from time to time among contra dancers who have tried and apparently liked ECD. This is ECD, so this must be how it's done! The mincing and prissy styling persists despite good role models, teaching, you name it. They of course take this back to their contra communities and even demonstrate it publicly. Now what to do? sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Without a really strong leadership to squash these strange stylings, this just perpetuates the myths I hear about ECD from others. Flame away if you like, only reporting what I've seen, heard and experienced. Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:40:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:26:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Heidenroeslein To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Martin Sheffield wrote: > I wonder if, today, when nothing is tabou, the interpretation of "ich > steche dich" would be > "(if you take me) I'll give you AIDS" ...? > And moaning and groaning did him no good -- once he'd caught it, he just > had to put up with it. Of course, in the time this poem was written, syphilis affected people and society very much the way AIDS does now; it was incurable, sexually transmitted, and its progress was terrifying. Some serious poetry and at least one classic folk song family ("St. James' Hospital") came from the plague of syphilis that began c. 1500 and continued, with ebbs and surges, until the advent of chemotherapy in the early 1900s. In looking at this poem I wondered about that possibility; I don't *think* so, but it's not impossible. In reading things written in that era, one must keep alert for the possibility of allegorical references to disease, especially the unmentionable diseases, which included not only STDs but also, sometimes, tuberculosis. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:56:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 22:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jonathan: My experience has been that contra-heads, like most people, are most attracted by the dances that aren't really that different from what they already know and are used to. I think the contra-dancers' stereotype of English dance is that it's all very slow, gliding and stodgy, no energy, flirtation or fun involved. That stereotype is what we're fighting, at least locally, and we've had the best success at mixed dances (i.e., the Folkfire benefits which involve a dozen or more dance groups) by programming two energetic dances and one slower one, the latter usually done last. It's still an uphill struggle, though. One thing that has helped: we *don't* do costumed demonstration dances at contra-dances anymore. That fed the stereotype, and also gave people the idea that we were entirely performance- and costume-oriented, rather than oriented toward the weekly open participatory dances. We have a performing group, although it hasn't done too much in the last year, but our main focus is now the dances (and the spring Ball and winter Grand Dance). My tuppence' worth. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 03:48:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 06:48:06 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: different dances to the same tunes: the point has been raised tha most ECD dances have a standard tune, and most tunes serve but one dance. any theories as to why this is the case, when your average contra has many possibilities (contras DO run longer, and it would bore the musicians to tears. that's MY personal theory. scottish country dances aren't longer, though, and the same holds true there)? musicians may have some insight into this. thanks. sharon "what, ME digress??" mckinley, and not an official digression for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 04:23:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:22:43 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: 3/4 - 3/2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F72A13.1E3-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01IEZ5OP3X56BJX9DH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Vicky and Allan wrote: > I agree with Vicky that "St. Margaret's Hill" and "The Old Mill" are gorgeous > 3-couple set dances, and the former works pretty well for a group with many > beginners in it, although it helps to have folks who are sure about the > difference between right and left. Thanks for the suggestion. You may not believe this, but I find St. Margaret's Hill very uninteresting. It has, in my opinion, a bad story line and even its wonderful tune doesn't make this dance acceptable to me. > Vicky, is "The King's Maggot" in print anywhere I'm likely to find it? I don't > think I've ever even heard of it. The King's Maggot is in Frank Van Cleef's "24 dances from the Playford editions" and also in the booklet that comes with the tape "All Alive" Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 04:26:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:26:08 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Excuse Me To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F72AE0.5B7C-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702031939.OAA01858-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Rich Jackson wrote: > I have > seen at least five versions of the dance "Excuse Me", which > I understand was a popular tune in the 1700's. Good you mention "Excuse Me"! I am actually looking for several versions of that dance. Rich, can you mention your sources? I have the Neal version; and Gary Roodman wrote a new dance to it, too. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 04:40:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:40:44 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Excuse Me To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F72E4C.2282-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rich Jackson mentions that there are at least five different versions of "Excuse Me". That interests me. I have the Neal version; and Gary Roodman wrote a new dance to it, too. Who knows more? Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 04:41:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:41:33 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: King's maggot To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F72E7D.336A-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The King's Maggot is in Frank Van Cleef's "24 dances from the Playford editions" and also in the booklet that comes with the tape "All Alive" Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 05:32:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:32:10 -0500 (EST) From: Harold Cheyney Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <3.0.16.19970204082823.392f0d86-AT- pop.service.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:51 PM 2/3/97 -0600, you wrote: > Does anyone have any thoughts on ways to get contra dancers to give ECD a >try? ...........snip......... Johnathan I think your idea of introducing a couple of ECD dances at a contra dance is the right approach. I don't know what the majority of contra dancers here think of ECD but conversely almost all of the ECD dancers around here are also contra dancers. The ones that aren't contra dancers do some other folk dancing like Scottish, International, etc. I have always thought of ECD and Contra as being so similar but of different flavor that they could complement each other if done as part of the same evening, just like a waltz complements contra dances by providing a change of pace. I would choose a dance that is smooth and flowing like Well Hall and one that is especially energetic with lots of partner interaction such as two hand turns, siding, etc. I can't think of an example. Harold, Columbus Ohio ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 07:49:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: King's maggot To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041549.KAA17320-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:41 PM 2/4/97 +0100, Philippe Callens wrote: >The King's Maggot is in Frank Van Cleef's "24 dances from the Playford >editions" and also in the booklet that comes with the tape "All Alive" King's Maggot [duple minor version of original triple minor] is in both the "All Alive" booklet and in Fried Herman's "Potter's Porch,"* where Fried provides a transcript of the original wording from Walsh. Van Cleef presents the dance as a 3-couple set, and gives a transcription of the original as well. *As Brad would say, available through the CDSS store. :-) --Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:00:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:59:20 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Cynthia's Waltz? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Philippe Callens wrote: > Eric Arnold wrote: > > > This afternoon at the Lovett Hall dance in Greenfield Village, Dearborn, > > MI (Glen Morningstar calling; the Michigan Ruffwater String Band playing) > > we did a dance by David Macemon that was set to a waltz. > > > That dance must be Cynthia's Waltz. It is in Gems. Helene Cornelius > introduced it to the Belgian dancers -- it was well received! > Personally, I feel that this dance comes in the category of waltz > country dances that do allow you to move well and not just take tiny > steps. Movements are spacious in Cynthia's Waltz and the lovely tune > askas for such long flowing movements, which are there (circle, cross > heys, ...). > > It is of course all a matter of personal taste. > > > Philippe Callens > This one wasn't Cynthia's Waltz -- it was similarly named, but another name was involved, and it was a duple minor, 1st couple improper longways set. The moves, as I recall them, were: Rh across once around, loop left into L shoulder gypsy with partner once and a half. Lh across once around, loop right into R shoulder gypsy with partner once and a half. Taking ballroom position with partner, waltz around other couple counterclockwise, first couple ending on (proper) men's side. (final figure which escapes me at the moment to finish progression and use up 8 bars of music) This should fit to a 32-bar waltz tune. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:05:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:05:09 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dance Composition To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041605.KAA10011-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> As one who attended the workshop I think it was very informative and worthwhile. I've written a handful of dances, a couple of which I think are good and I'm sure the workshop will help me with future endeavors. We ended up writing 3 dances as a group during the hour. One still needs work to be a usable dance, but the other two are quite nice. I intend to use them when calling in the future under the names "Kristi's Dance" (the first one we worked on) and "Dance By Committee" (the 3rd dance we did). Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:23:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:23:26 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041623.KAA19590-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> At the contra-English dance weekend in Ann Arbor this past weekend there were many non-English dancers giving ECD a try (or so it seemed to me). The dances that Scott Higgs called at the English dance on Friday, the ECD workshop Saturday and at the contra dance Saturday night seemed to go over very well with the crowd. I think one common denominator was that the dances flowed well. As a long-time contra dancer, I know how important this is to a good dance and have many times heard contra dancers say how much they liked a dance because of the way it flows. I've decided to use "Juice of Barley" and "Geud Man of Ballangigh" as the English dances at the contra dance later this month. I think these meet the requirments set forth by Erna-Lynne. Also since our local ECD group has done GMOB before this is just one new tune for the band to work on. Thanks for all the suggestions. When the discussion dies down, I'll try to put together a synopsis of the ideas. Jonathan ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:31:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:31:05 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Heidenroeslein (fwd) To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII (This seems to have bounced somewhere along the way, so I'm sending it again. My apologies if you get two copies. - Eric) On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Martin Sheffield wrote: > "... half ihm doch kein Weh und Ach" > > My school memories tell me this means: > It was no use his moaning and groaning (ie: pleading with her), he just had > to put up with it (her rejection). Ah, Martin, that makes more sense than my reading. I had assumed that the following line, "(subject) muss es eben leiden" kept the same subject as the beginning of the poetical "sentence", namely, Roeslein. With your reading, however, I find that I have to put (subject) = boy, and that hadn't occured to me before, partly because I thought it was saying that the rose had to suffer in spite of her determination not to. > For me, it was just the simple account of unrequited love. > > When I was at school, rape was a tabou subject, but I don't think that was > the reason why it wasn't mentioned in connection with this poem. That would certainly be more in character with other works by the esteemed author. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 08:37:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:37:16 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>enticing contra dancers -------------------------------------- Later this month our local ECD band (The Flatland Consort) will be playing at the local contra dance. I'll be calling and I'd like to do a couple of English dances during the evening. Does anyone have any suggestions for dances which will show the contra dancers just how enjoyable ECD is? I'm thinking of longways, duple minor dances which are very smooth and flowing. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- I suggest giving 'em Mad Robin. It's fairly simple and for those who are into contra because of the opportunity to flirt, it's a gold mine. Explain the shuttle figure as "eye contact as in a gypsy, but going up and down the set instead of around each other." I'd also think of Knolle Park, because it's sooo much fun walking down the middle of the set all dignified and then coming back up skipping like a kid. Just my suggestions. In any case, let us know how it works out. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:08:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:08:30 -0800 From: dodson-AT- violet.berkeley.edu (allen and alisa dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Cynthia's Waltz? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Tues, 4 Feb 1997, Eric Arnold (hi Eric!) wrote: >This one wasn't Cynthia's Waltz -- it was similarly named, but another >name was involved, and it was a duple minor, 1st couple improper longways >set. (Eric goes on to describe the moves...) I think the dance is Laura's Waltz, written to celebrate Laura Robertson's recent wedding last fall. Alisa Dodson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:56:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:49:31 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > re: different dances to the same tunes: > the point has been raised tha most ECD dances have a standard > tune, and most tunes serve but one dance. any theories as to why > this is the case, when your average contra has many possibilities > (contras DO run longer, and it would bore the musicians to tears. > that's MY personal theory. scottish country dances aren't longer, > though, and the same holds true there)? musicians may have some > insight into this. I'm afraid I have no insights, but it should be noted that many contra musicians don't play medleys, even for a long dance; they just work through all the corners and twists of the tune. Good players, working on a good tune, don't get bored or boring. I doubt that it's connected, but contra dance survived in New England, where they also used to swap tunes and verses for their hymns. :-)}}} Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:58:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:00:55 +0100 From: Martin.Sheffield-AT- wanadoo.fr (Martin Sheffield) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Bob wrote: >This whole thread interests me because it's a discussion that just >wouldn't happen in England. It didn't happen 40 years ago either -- as far as I know, judging merely from what was being done in the few clubs where I danced, and the few times I went to Cecil Sharp house. I remeber being told things like "They were trad English dances and tunes, that got taken across the Atlantic, and came back years later, sometimes with changed names." There was a difference in style of playing the music, two quite different sounds, for American and English, but the actual execution of the dance figures was the same, except that we skipped and ranted in a few of the English ones. Judging from Bob's remarks, dancing in England has not changed much, though I cannot be sure as I haven't done ECD thee for very many years. I wonder if Playford dances are done in North America in the highly stylized manner in which they are sometimes taught here in France, and which is different from what I remember seeing and doing in GB. This would account for the split between the two dancing communities. In England >there's much less of a split between Playford and >contra (there is however a split between Playford / contra and >ceilidh dancers but that's another thread). Tell us more about that thread, Bob. What do you mean by ceilidh dancers? Royal Scottish country? or hard-shoe reeling? Yours, Martin, Grenoble, France. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:06:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:09:26 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Jonathan Here's another notion for ECD/contra connections. In GEMS, Jim Kitch wrote a dance called Lovers' Knot which is beautiful and flowing. Jim is really a contra choreographer, and this dance has tremendous flow as a contra dance too. At the Nightingale weekend, I somehow was so tired on Saturday morning (at the 9 am workshop) that I could not face balance, contra-tempo etc. I decided to do this dance but to substitute a short partner swing on the side where the instructions call for a 2 hand turn. It leaves people in the same place, and in fact is just a slightly higher energy version of the same dance. Nightingale provided a tune with lots of drive but no bounce -- just what it needed. It has since occurred to me that one could ask a band to medley together the English tune (Black & Gray, in Barnes under Trip to Kilburn) with a contra tune that is driving and just slightly fasther, and make the transition from two hand turn to swing in the calling -- just move them from English into contra. It would be an intriguing way to help folks see how close in mood the two can be. I'm not yet sure if I'll do that. Erna-Lynne ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:08:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: goals for newish ECD group To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > I'm involved in running an ECD group in Champaign, IL. We've been more or >less formally organized for about 1 1/2 years now. Our initial goals were >pretty clear cut; find a space to dance in, set a schedule and promote the >dances, organise the loose collection of musicians into a band, find rehearsal >space, work on building a repetoire of basic dances and hold a Ball at the end >of the season. This has worked out well and now we have a core group of >dancers (not as big as I'd like, but OK), a band going along very well, >monthly >dances scheduled with a few extra thrown in, and we've held two Christmas Ball >and a Playford Ball. My question is, what sort of short- and long-term goals >should be have now? Obviously we want to maintain what we have and build >our attendance, but what other things might we be working on? What should >we keep in mind when setting up the programs for future dances? Any advice >on directions to take or goals to strive for? > > Thanks for any thoughts or tips. > >Jonathan > It sounds as though you are off to a great start! But are you sure you want people in other communities to tell you what you SHOULD be doing now? I think you need to find your own goals, and make the dances work for your particular needs. Here are some questions you might ask yourselves to start on the next set of goals. What is really good about what you have now? What could be better? Do you want to dance more often, or are you happy with the amount you are dancing? What are the advantages and disadvantages of expanding to more dances per month? How fast do you want to expand the numbers of dancers in the group? More people is more exciting, but if you are really successful, you may need to find a bigger hall. Or you may have so many newcomers that you need to slow down the teaching to accommodate the beginners, and the experienced dancers get bored and grumble, or even stop coming. How do you attract new dancers, and how do you make sure they come back again? Is dancing with better style a goal? If you want to improve, how will you do it? Send the leadership to to dance camps? Have people in to teach workshops? Teach workshops yourselves? Just model beautiful dancing at the regular dances so that newcomers are inspired to dance like that? What kinds of repertory does the group like? Do you want more dances that are of this kind? (and how will you get them?) Do you want to try to expand the variety that the group accepts, and see if you can sell dances that are a bit different? What are your social norms? How do they get communicated to newcomers? How are new dancers treated? How do you change patterns of behavior that you see happening and don't like (booking ahead, not changing partners, ignoring newcomers etc.) Is the music glorious, or is improving the band a goal? If the band needs work, how can you get them to make the sounds you'd love to dance to? Do you want to recruit other musicians who can play some of the dances, or do you want to focus on developing the house band you already have? Are there English groups in nearby cities? What do you want the relationship to be? Are they too far away to connect with? Are their ideas for what they are trying to do too different from yours? Will interacting draw them to your group sometimes? Do you want to go dance with them every now and then, or invite their caller to call a dance sometime? What does the group need first or most? How do you go about prioritizing your new goals? How do you keep the good stuff as you start expanding and modifying? Keep us posted on what you come up with. Its always interesting to hear about what other groups are doing. Vicky Bestock, Seattle ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:09:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:22:53 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Bar a Bar To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi friends: Thanks for your help on Scotch Morris! I've another question. The notes I have for Bar a Bar say that the poussette is counterclockwise, M1 and L2 moving forward. But poussette's are almost invariably clockwise, M1 advancing and the only reason I can see for it to be different is if you have to choose between norms because M1 starts progressed, which is not the case here, or because something in the part preceding it makes this the organic direction to go (as in Orleans Baffled with the S-shaped half-poussettes.) which is also not the case, as partners are coming from opposite directions into the poussette, so one or the other has to chance direction whichever way you do it. Are my notes wrong and my instincts right? Or should I believe the written word? Thanks for your help. I'd like to call the dance Friday. Vicky ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:10:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 09:56:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Collsfield House To: English Dance Maillist Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Does anyone out there have the dance for Collsfield (sometimes spelled Coulsfield) House? It's a gorgeous tune, and we'd like to try the dance out. Thanks in advance! Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:16:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:16:01 -0800 From: Suzanne Wright Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Baroque Dance Summer Workshop at Stanford To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Baroque Dance at Stanford University 24th Annual Workshop July 28 - August 8, 1997 =46or Dancers, Dance Scholars, Choreographers, Musicians, Musicologists, and Theater Movement Specialists =46ACULTY: Wendy Hilton, Director Linda Tomko, Co-Director Paige Whitley-Bauguess Thomas Baird Bronwen Pugh, Baroque violin The Baroque Dance Summer Workshop at Stanford University offers intensive study in the style, technique and notation of French court and theater dance at beginning, intermediate, and advanced levels. Daily activities include two technique classes, a dance notation class, a music class or lecture-demonstration, and time to use the music library with its extensive dance collection and the Lully Archives. Beginning and intermediate couples are allocated a one hour daily practice slot. Advanced students are allocated practice space and have four private, or semi-private, notation sessions with Wendy Hilton. The Workshop concludes on August 8th with a demonstration followed by a farewell party at 5:00 pm for faculty, students, and guests. This year's focus will be on French dances in France and other European countries, particularly Germany. The couple dance, La Bavaroise, to be reconstructed by intermediate level students, and the contredances for all which conclude each day, will be from a little-explored collection, La Hessoise Darmstat [Munich, 1718], by Jean Pierre Dubreil, a French master employed in Germany. Beginning students will reconstruct Louis P=E9cour's L= a (Die) Bourgogne (1700) (courante, bour=E9e, sarabande, passepied), one of th= e first French danses =E0 deux to appear in print in Germany (I.H. P. 1705). Advanced students may reconstruct a dance of their choice after a consultation with Wendy Hilton. Evening practice space is also available. Choreographed baroque dances will be related to music in dance forms such as the loure, courante, menuet, and gavotte by Bach, Telemann, and Handel. The Stanford Music Library has a large collection of dance source material in addition to its music resources, which include the Lully Archive. Wendy Hilton's book, Dance of Court and Theater: The French Noble Style 1690-1725, is the text used for the workshop. Baroque Dance & Music Faculty Wendy Hilton, Director, is the author of Dance of Court and Theater: The =46rench Noble Style 1690-1725 and co-author with Donald Waxman of Dance Pageant. Her choregraphic credits include La Dafne by Marco de Gagliano, Dardanus by Rameau, and the American premiere of Mary, Queen of Scots by Thea Musgrave. She is on the faculty of The Juilliard School and general editor of the Pendragon Press series Dance and Music: the alliance of the two arts. She has been consulted by such modern choreographers as Jerome Robbins and Trisha Brown. Linda Tomko, Co-Director, leads "Les Menus Plaisirs," a Baroque dance troupe, and she has appeared in reconstructions of Baroque dance throughout the United States, in Canada, and Japan. She holds a Ph.D. in History from UCLA and is Associate Professor of Dance in UC Riverside's Ph.D. program in Dance History and Theory. Paige Whitley-Bauguess holds an M.A. in Dance History from UC Riverside where her specialization in Baroque dance began. She directs the Craven Historical Dancers and owns a dance school. She has lectured and performed 18th-century dance internationally, including engagements in Hong Kong and Japan. Her publications include Dance Music of the French Baroque, a series of scores in modern notation for the music accompanying 18th-century notated dances, and articles in the Dance Notation Journal, and the International Dictionary of Ballet. Thomas Baird, founder and director of the Early Dance Alliance, also directs the dance and music ensemble, "Apollo's Banquet." With his partner, Paige Whitley-Bauguess, he appears frequently as a guest artist with other music ensembles. Mr. Baird has taught ballet at Sarah Lawrence College and been a guest teacher in Baroque dance at The Juilliard School, the Manhattan School of Music, and Princeton University. Bronwen Pugh, a specialist in Baroque violin, studied at the Royal Conservatory in The Hague with Sigiswald Kuijken. She has played in several chamber ensembles and Baroque orchestras throughout Europe. She is a founding member of Restoration and Sonnerie based in Wellington, New Zealand, and she plays regularly in performances of Baroque music and dance. TUITION (non credit): Two weeks (July 28 - August 8) $475. One week (July 28- August 1) $345. Registration: Sunday, July 27 (2 - 6 pm). CONTACT: Baroque Dance Summer Workshop Department of Music Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-3076 (415) 723-0038 E-mail: melmcgee-AT- leland.stanford.edu Registration: Sunday, July 27 (2 - 6 pm). I am primarily a: ___ musician; ___ dancer; ___ historian/researcher. Explain on a separate sheet if necessary. My level of skill in dance is: ___ BEGINNING ___ INTERMEDIATE ___ ADVANCED ___ PROFESSIONAL Have you ever studied Baroque dance? _________________________ ___ I would like to reserve a copy of Hilton's Dance of Court & Theater (2nd edition 1997) at the special student workshop price of $69. I learned of this workshop from: _______________________________ NAME ______________________________________________________ ADDRESS ___________________________________________________ CITY _____________________________ STATE _____ ZIP _________ COUNTRY __________________________________________________ TELEPHONE ( _____ ) _______________________________________ EMAIL ______________________________________________________ Application Fee is $15 prior to May 31; $30 after May 31. Application Fee is due with this form; course fees must be paid by registration day. Application Fee is non-refundable. ___ Enclosed is my application fee in the amount $_________ Please make check payable to Stanford University. Please send this form with your application fee to: Baroque Dance Summer Workshop Department of Music Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-3076 If you have any questions regarding the summer program, please contact the Department of Music at (415) 723-0038 or e-mail: melmcgee-AT- leland.stanford.edu. All workshop and housing applications should be sent directly to the Music Deparment. Advance registration is encouraged. Late applications will be accepted only if space permits. Housing Conference Office housing is available at $37 for single or $26.75 for double accommodations per night per person. ___ Yes, please send housing information. ___ No, I will stay off-campus. Housing information will be sent to you upon receipt of this application. Please enclose a note with this form if you have any special housing needs (handicapped access, accompanying family members, etc.). ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:37:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:37:40 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>enticing contra dancers ---------------------------------------------------------------- I've run into a similar attitude to that being discussed. Most of it on the contra side stems from the misconception that English dance is PRISSY. I would love sometime to go back in time to where people GOT this idea, but since it seemed for awhile to be a widely held feeling, I have to assume it did not fall from the sky, but came from some demonstration somewhere, sometime. Unfortunately, this prissiness appears from time to time among contra dancers who have tried and apparently liked ECD. This is ECD, so this must be how it's done! The mincing and prissy styling persists despite good role models, teaching, you name it. They of course take this back to their contra communities and even demonstrate it publicly. Now what to do? sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Without a really strong leadership to squash these strange stylings, this just perpetuates the myths I hear about ECD from others. Mary Beth -------------------------------------------------------------------- Most of the problem attitudes I've encountered with trying to talk contra dancers into trying English is, "if there's no swing it can't be fun." However, I encountered something like what Mary Beth is describing here in the first "International Folk Dance" session that I went to where an English dance was done. It was an absolutely excrutiatingly awful version of "Hole in the Wall", with these elaborate, stiff bows before each movement, which the dancers there seemed to think was correct English styling, and the most lifeless movement I've ever seen done to a dance. "Hole in the Wall" is difficult enough to do well, since it takes such enormous control to fit the steps to the music. Doing that dance as it was done there seemed to me that it would certainly convince anyone who didn't know better that an evening of English dancing would be a most unpleasant experience. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:43:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:43:33 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Bar a Bar To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041843.NAA15553-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:22 AM 2/4/97 -0800, Vicky Bestock wrote: >Hi friends: Thanks for your help on Scotch Morris! I've another question. >The notes I have for Bar a Bar say that the poussette is counterclockwise, >M1 and L2 moving forward. But poussette's are almost invariably clockwise, >M1 advancing and the only reason I can see for it to be different is if you >have to choose between norms because M1 starts progressed, which is not the >case here, or because something in the part preceding it makes this the >organic direction to go (as in Orleans Baffled with the S-shaped >half-poussettes.) which is also not the case, as partners are coming from >opposite directions into the poussette, so one or the other has to chance >direction whichever way you do it. > >Are my notes wrong and my instincts right? Or should I believe the written >word? Thanks for your help. I'd like to call the dance Friday. Vicky Vicky: At the end of bar 8 in the B music, the Ones are above and all are once again proper. At this point you have the 1/2 pousette in which to progress. The 1st Woman ADVANCES, 1st man backing, and the 1/2 pousette indeed moves counterclockwise. This results from Fried's strong personal preference: when she is 1st woman, she likes to move forward in the pousette [you can see the same tendency in "First Lady," where she has simultaneous push-pull and draw pousettes so that BOTH women start out dancing forward]. Clearly, Fried does not envision women as being easy to push around. :-) Love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:54:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:53:53 -0800 From: dodson-AT- violet.berkeley.edu (allen and alisa dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Rich said (in part) > >I agree with the basic concept of One Tune per Dance, although >I am not going to stop musicians from ocassionaly trying out >a different tune. In an ideal world, I suppose One Dance per >Tune is probably preferable, but I wouldn't want to stifle >the creativity of a dance composer by saying, "Sorry, that >tune is taken." Sometimes more than one tune per dance is fun -- I am thinking of Take A Dance and Ore Boggy. Same moves, different tunes, much different feeling. I like and use them both, depending on what mood/kind of energy is wanted. Alisa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 10:58:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:58:39 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041858.NAA19437-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:37 PM 2/4/97 -0500, Barbara Ruth wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------- >Most of the problem attitudes I've encountered with trying to talk contra >dancers into trying English is, "if there's no swing it can't be fun." >However, I encountered something like what Mary Beth is describing here in the >first "International Folk Dance" session that I went to where an English dance >was done. It was an absolutely excrutiatingly awful version of "Hole in the >Wall", with these elaborate, stiff bows before each movement, which the >dancers there seemed to think was correct English styling, and the most >lifeless movement I've ever seen done to a dance. "Hole in the Wall" is >difficult enough to do well, since it takes such enormous control to fit the >steps to the music. Doing that dance as it was done there seemed to me that >it would certainly convince anyone who didn't know better that an evening of >English dancing would be a most unpleasant experience. "Hole in the Wall" does present problems. I was interested in Rhodri Davies' remarks a while back on doing some version of stepping in that dance. I once attended a Baroque workshop with Jody McGeen at which we worked on doing baroque steps to the figures of the dance--I would guess that Rhodri had something else in mind, but I don't know. Any input on how to move in "Hole in the Wall"? Julia, Rhodri, Alisa [Is Jody lurking?], others--? Thanks, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:02:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:01:48 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Brief reminder - how to get the DIGEST version of ECD To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IF0KLUXJA8BJX9DH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- I'm delighted to see the recent volume of discussion on the list, and hope we continue with lots of wide-ranging and interesting conversation. Nobody has mentioned it to me yet, but it's possible that some subscribers may find themselves overwhelmed by the number of messages they get each day. If you'd like to get only one big message a day from the list, you can have it sent to you in digest form. To do so, send mail to ECD-REQUEST-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU with the message body SET DIGEST [Early ECD subscribers may remember that I had a heck of a time getting this feature working properly, but I did finally get it sorted out. I maintain a separate digest subscription for myself so I can be sure that it continues working.] -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:36:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:34:15 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, Sharon Green wrote: > Any input on how to move in "Hole in the Wall"? Julia, Rhodri, Alisa [Is > Jody lurking?], others--? ^ As one of the "others" -- I recall in my amateurish early music days doing the old hornpipes with a combined 3/2 - 6/8 feel, which gave a very jaunty aspect to it, and they moved right along. Anthony Holborne and Henry Purcell had some wonderful pieces with powerful 3-against-2 rhythms. I wonder if we perhaps are interpreting them too slowly, just to convince ourselves that they aren't waltzes. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:37:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:36:39 -0500 (EST) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970204131237_1145981251-AT- emout10.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-02-03, Maryn McKenna writes: "....... a couple other folks in attendance (ECD dancers with years more contra experience than me) suggested that contra rewards rushing, because the faster you get there the more time you have to swing ("Swing," one guy declared, "is dessert.")." But that swing still feels better when it's on its intended phrase of music; I guess I like savoring the main course before I have dessert! From my very limited experience with contra dancing, it also seems to me to accustom dancers to immediate gratification; figures are often relatively simple and the quickest of walk-throughs can be followed by a rush of exuberant movement. This can make a contra dancer impatient with the more thorough teaching of figures and style that we ECD-ers expect and accept as necessary to our own joy in dancing, and is probably one more factor that makes ECD a "tough sell" for some contra dancers. At a recent New York City event which began with an ECD segment and ended with contras, one of my partners who was new to English dancing fidgeted throughout the excellent teaching of Newcastle, and as the dance was about to begin, said, "All that teaching wasn't necessary!" I needn't describe what followed....... Carol Martinez White Plains, N.Y. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 11:57:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:55:03 -0500 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702041955.OAA04779-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Alisa said: >Sometimes more than one tune per dance is fun -- I am thinking of Take A >Dance and Ore Boggy. Same moves, different tunes, much different feeling. >I like and use them both, depending on what mood/kind of energy is wanted. I love hearing all these references to the Neal book (Ore Boggy). It reminds me, there is a nice version of Portsmouth in that book. Same (or similar) tune, the dance is a triple-minor with a mirror-image hey. Not bad. I have also written a dance to the tune for The Brittaine (sp?) which is far superior to the original. Philippe: You were looking for easier 3/2 dances, try Dusty Miller from Neal. It has some funny things, like backwards contra-corners, but the dance is definitely worth doing. It is not a beginners dance, though. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:00:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:00:15 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: hole in the wall: ooh, ooh, push another button, why don't ya. i've always felt that HITW was danced too slowly. i wonder if the musicians think it's prettier that way. it's a legitimate piece of "classical" music (handel, maybe? purcell?), and when i heard it played in context, was delighted with its liveliness. if we danced it closer to that speed than to that normally provided, the dance would work much better. but i learned it as an international dancer too; that and Trip to Paris were our official english dances. i didn't take up ECD for another 12 years. sharon "you're diverting again" mckinley and not an official retired international dancer for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:26:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:25:51 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or O To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance -------------------------------------- Philippe: You were looking for easier 3/2 dances, try Dusty Miller from Neal. It has some funny things, like backwards contra-corners, but the dance is definitely worth doing. It is not a beginners dance, though. ----------------------------------------------------------- I believe we just did that one last week at the Providence Ball. I'd never done it before. It was quite surprisingly delightful. Some unexpectedly sexy moves. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:44:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric: Just what do you mean by 3 to 2 rhythms? Normally these did not exist in the time of Purcell, so I suspect you really mean something else. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:45:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:44:30 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric: Just what do you mean by 3 to 2 rhythms? Normally these did not exist in the time of Purcell, so I suspect you really mean something else. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:48:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:48:34 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sharon, I do believe Hole in the Wall was intended to be done with "steps." The question is, however, which steps? Further, Lorin says they English supplied whatever steps they chose--in other words, the group of dancers would not all do the same steps at the same time. The best we can do now is learn the steps of the period, as codified by the French, and apply them according to our judgment to Hole in the Wall. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:48:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:48:34 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sharon, I do believe Hole in the Wall was intended to be done with "steps." The question is, however, which steps? Further, Lorin says they English supplied whatever steps they chose--in other words, the group of dancers would not all do the same steps at the same time. The best we can do now is learn the steps of the period, as codified by the French, and apply them according to our judgment to Hole in the Wall. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 12:51:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:51:14 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sharon, In my opinion, Hole in the Wall is done slowly today because "old dances were done by old people, therefore slowly." This is of course nonsense. Please note that in the complete works of Purcell it is called a hornpipe! Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:18:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:16:47 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, julia s sutton wrote: > Eric: > > Just what do you mean by 3 to 2 rhythms? Normally these did not exist in > the time of Purcell, so I suspect you really mean something else. > > Julia I mean, for example, in multi-part music, where some bars appear to be written as though they were intended to be played like 6/4 in some parts, 3/2 in others. (I absent-mindedly said 6/8 instead of 6/4 in my earlier post, I believe.) I recall a Holborne piece, I think called "The Night Watch", in which this was prominent; I think the music was in a Schott edition. There were also pieces from Purcell's Faiere Queene (sp?) that had hornpipes with similar feel of three beats per measure against two; of course, I don't know what the original score or manuscript looked like -- we trusted that the editors knew what they were doing -- but it did seem to make sense. Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 13:50:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:47:15 -0500 (EST) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Folk Dance Band Tour To: ECD Message-ID: <970204214714_101454.633_IHP89-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> This was also bounced back to me - sorry if you've had a copy before!............. Copy of: English Folk Dance Band Tour The Blue Mountain Band - a well known English Folk Dance Band is going over to the States in mid July, for a festival in Salt Lake City. They would very much like an opportunity to play for some events after the festival, towards the end of July - before they return to England - to finish off their tour. They specialise in Playford and English styles, but are quite adept at American Squares and Contras. - I can thoroughly recommend them ( They are actually playing for our club's weekend in May) Their leader is Rick Smith - and he can be contacted as follows: Phone No: +44 01844 352468 Address: 51 Elderdene Chinnor Oxon OX9 4EJ England Or if you would like to contact me through e-mail: margaret-AT- mdwhaley.demon.co.uk I will pass your message on. Thanks Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:32:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:31:34 -0500 From: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:enticing contra dancers To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702041731_MC2-10B6-5C66-AT- compuserve.com> A couple of years ago at the Albany, NY, area "Dance Flurry" week-end, I was asked to lead a session introducing contra dancers (the vast majority of the thousand-plus dancers at the week-end) to English dancing. I hit the prejudice issue head-on, and titled the session "English Dances That Don't Suck." The title was taken from MTV's popular program "Videos That Don't Suck" hosted by those paragons of American culture: Beavis and Butthead. (No reflection on the cultural values of contra-addicts is intended or implied, I think). The title put a few noses out of joint, but the session was PACKED. As i've been asked to do such a session again (this coming Feb. 14-16 ) I greatly thank and deeply appreciate all ECD-list'ers who've posted many, many good ideas that I intend to make good use of (where's ASCAP when we need 'em). Clever titles only take you so far... Gene Murrow EC Dancer who doesn't even have cable TV ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:32:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:31:32 -0500 From: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702041731_MC2-10B6-5C65-AT- compuserve.com> The recent posts regarding Hole in the Wall prompted me to review Rhodri Davies' and Howard Mitchell's posts on Wilf Darlington's research on the Lancashire and Chesire hornpipe and its historical antecedents. Howard notes Darlington's stepping as LLRRLR. I was AMAZED when I ran a few of our favorite 3/2 tunes in my head (Hole in the Wall, Easter Thursday, News from Tripoli...). Each 3/2 measure(bar) of each of these tunes has a distinctive pattern of smooth pattern at the beginning of the bar, ending with two pointed notes (quarter notes-- crochets for those East of here). I always thought it a musical curiosity-- why would all these Purcell-era hornpipes share this distinctive rhythm?-- but IT FITS THIS STEPPING PATTERN!! Think of it: same-foot, same-foot, change-feet / same-foot, same-foot, change-feet... You can almost sing these words to H in the W. Rhodri says the stepping does indeed fit Chesire Rounds and Hole in the Wall, and, though tricky, is capable of being "ingrained." (Is this like shin splints? :-) ) So how do we get a copy of a complete description of this stepping?? Of course all this is conjecture based on extrapolating current practice backwards, but it sure is tempting... as Julia and Kitty Keller have told us, we just don't know WHAT they did back then. And if the modern Lancashire 3/2 hornpipe step is to the historical hornpipe as the modern Lancashire strutting teen-aged girl pom-pom Morris is to historical Morris, well.... Gene Murrow EC Dancer and Caller anticipating the day when dancers sit out Hole in the Wall as much as Morpeth Rant ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 14:39:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:35:13 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970204163513.b29e-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> One concept of Hole In The Wall, and I think the original is set up that way, is the music goes four plus two (4+2) in a 6/4 measure. The opening melody and harmony emphasize it for three measures followed by a 3+1+2 to finish out the phrase. The second part duplicates the first part in measures 1-4, then three more 4+2 measures with a closing, well, slow three count measure (2+2+2) that has a delightful hemiola (look it up) effect. If you can capture this lightly, without driving into "the Wall" (Ooops!) then the dancers can gain beautiful insights of the historical perid and its music. Hans David, the great University of Michigan Baroque music scholar ("The Bach Reader" and other important period studies) has said, and I've heard him, Musicall, anything can happen in Baroque music if you're willing to look around a bit. Cheers. Forbes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:05:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 19:03:40 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I agree with the basic concept of One Tune per Dance, although >I am not going to stop musicians from ocassionaly trying out >a different tune. In an ideal world, I suppose One Dance per >Tune is probably preferable, but I wouldn't want to stifle >the creativity of a dance composer by saying, "Sorry, that >tune is taken." You know that old saw about "the music'll tell you what to do"? What do we do when there's more than one dance to the same tune if more than one really great dance gets created to the same tune. Colin's been inventing dances to old tunes which already have published dances and if some of his inventions weren't so good (Mayfair, for instance), we'd be in a real quandary in Boston, for sure. Then there are melodies like Easter Thursday, which desperately need really good dances made up to them. (flame, flame away.......) > >Rich "I claim Jump at the Sun for my dance" Jackson You and Fried can fight it out, Rich! Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 16:46:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:49:58 +0000 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford in England( was enticing contra dancers ) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <855097175.55681.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> Martin Sheffield wrote: > I wonder if Playford dances are done in North America in the highly > stylized manner in which they are sometimes taught here in France, and > which is different from what I remember seeing and doing in GB. This would > account for the split between the two dancing communities. I can't comment on how the dancing is done in France, but there is a big difference in the way Playford is done in England and the way Playford is done in the U.S. My feeling is that American dancers are much more respectful and protective of Playford than we are in England. The American Playford tradition is a separate tradition to the English Playford tradition, the same thing applies to the American contra tradition and the English contra tradition. One American friend of mine (who dances Playford and contra equally happily) came out of the Playford Ball at Sidmouth one year in a state of shock. "They don't know how to play for Playford" she said to me. My response was that they almost certainly did know, but chose to do something a little bit different. The musicians in question (who shall remain nameless) are well known for jazzing up tunes. One dance I went to with them ended up as John Playford meets Glenn Miller. I can understand that this wouldn't be to everyone's taste - personally I love it. > In England >there's much less of a split between Playford and > >contra (there is however a split between Playford / contra and > >ceilidh dancers but that's another thread). > > Tell us more about that thread, Bob. What do you mean by ceilidh dancers? > Royal Scottish country? or hard-shoe reeling? I was referring to English ceilidh dancing which has really taken off over the last few years. Traditional or traditional style English dances (as found in the early Community Dance Manuals), very loud rock style folk bands, a much younger crowd than you'd get for Playford or contras, lots more stepping dances - hornpipes, polkas etc. Bob P.S. I now have a dance web page. There's very little on it at the moment, however it does contain the definitive instructions for 'The Magnificent Seven' which might amuse some of you. The page is at: http://www.hottub.demon.co.uk/dqzz.htm ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:25:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:27:13 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: English Folk Dance Band Tour To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702050126.UAA04868-AT- xis.com> From Margaret Whatley: > Blue Mountain Band - a well known English Folk Dance Band is going > over to the States in mid July, for a festival in Salt Lake City. - [snip] > I can thoroughly recommend them (They are actually playing for our > club's weekend in May) Margeret, having heard your taste in dances and dancing, I value your recommendation. But, can you or one of the other Brits describe the Blue Mountain Band more fully? E.g., number of members, what instruments, etc.? Thanks. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:29:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric, Ah! Now I get you. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:29:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:28:55 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Eric, Ah! Now I get you. Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:31:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 20:31:23 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- compuserve.com> CC: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Gene: Exactly! Julia ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:58:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 01:59:59 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702050659.BAA05931-AT- xis.com> Getting back to Jonathan's initial question: > Does anyone have any thoughts on ways to get contra dancers to > give ECD a try? Here are some techniques I've seen used. 1. Have great music. Having musicians like Elke Baker, Liz Donaldson, Marty Taylor, Jonathan Jensen, Steve Hickman, Dave Wiesler and Andrea Hoag as our regular ECD musicians sure gets the attention of contra dancers. 2. Position ECD as a form of dancing that takes more skill than contra dancing, as something to graduate to as your dance skills develop. Peter Fricke did a wondrous job of revitalizing ECD in DC that way. 2. Sell the history connection. People are interested in their roots and contras evolved from ECD. 3. Encourage ECD dancers to be good ambassadors. In DC, most of the better ECD dancers do contras. Being friendly and dancing well, in time to the music, flowing from figure to figure makes an impression. Overheard at a contra dance: Lady 1: "I love to watch Roger dance, the way he just seems to float." Lady 2: "Yes, he's does English." 4. A number of our dancers (especially the men, since we frequently have a shortage of women at the FSGW ECDs) actively recruit converts at contra dances. 5. Schedule events which are likely to draw well and involve both ECD and contras. E.g., festivals, a few ECDs in a contra evening, or special activities like the Ski Dance Weekend. And now if you'll indulge me a little anecdote. I called the ECD session (without a catchy Gene Murrow title :-)) at a festival recently. When I arrived, I found that English had been scheduled in direct conflict with the contra session. I was worried that participation would be sparse at English. I need not have worried. The session before the ECD was a free waltz session led by Dave Wiesler and Andrea Hoag. No teaching, just tune after tune of scrumptious music until a wonderful, joyful energy filled everyone in the room. When about 2/3 of the way through the waltz session Andrea announced that she and Dave would also be playing for the ECD session immediately following, the place went wild with applause. (See suggestion #1 above.) Sure enough, the room was packed for the ECD. There were nearly as many people trying to squeeze into the doorways to listen to the music as there were dancing. We had a mixture of first time dancers, contra dancers, international dancers, and a few ECD dancers. I recognized more contra dancers than ECD dancers. BTW, the dances I chose heavily overlapped those that have been recently suggested in this thread. They did indeed work well and kept both beginners and contra dancers engaged. (And, the music kept them excited.) However, the dance that drew the most compliments and questions after the session was one I had used as a change of pace, Drapers Gardens. Alan had asked if there were contra dancers that actively discourage English. There certainly are some in the DC area, but the most part they are easy to ignore. However, I later found out that an aggressively anti-ECD-dancer had attended the English session with the stated purpose of trying to destroy the dance. (Should we list this as one more way to entice contra dancers to experience English?) I did notice a contra dancer doing things like stopping completely at times, completing all the figures about 10 bars early, progressing in the wrong direction etc. I just figured he was brain defective and ignored him--or rather, left the enforcement to the dancers. I'm glad I didn't know at the time that he was doing that intentionally. Well enough already! Thanks for indulging my late night ramblings. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:58:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 01:59:59 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702050659.BAA05934-AT- xis.com> > Reply to: RE>enticing contra dancers > > > > -------------------------------------- > Later this month our local ECD band (The Flatland Consort) will be > playing > at the local contra dance. I'll be calling and I'd like to do a > couple of English dances during the evening. Does anyone have any > suggestions for dances which will show the contra dancers just how > enjoyable ECD is? I'm thinking of longways, duple minor dances > which are very smooth and flowing. Any suggestions would be > appreciated. Jonathan > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > I suggest giving 'em Mad Robin. It's fairly simple and for those > who are into contra because of the opportunity to flirt, it's a gold > mine. Explain the shuttle figure as "eye contact as in a gypsy, but > going up and down the set instead of around each other." I'd also > think of Knolle Park, because it's sooo much fun walking down the > middle of the set all dignified and then coming back up skipping > like a kid. > > Just my suggestions. In any case, let us know how it works out. > > Barbara Ruth > > I'm pleased to see so many good suggestions. In the past, I've heard it suggested (and seen it practiced) that the caller should choose dances that closely ressemble contra dances. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I'm talking about the non-Playford balance-twice-and-oh-so-short-swing dances. IMO, those dances come across to American contra dancers as emasculated or prissy contras. (Of course in the proper context, they are perfectly fine English dances.) I agree completely with Erna Lynn's suggestion to "Give them English dances which have some relatively obvious connection to contra so that they are not totally in a new context." But, I would add the flip side of including something that is distinctly English. That might be a figure, the time signature, or just what you emphasize when you teach the dance. ECD is a joyous dance form. We owe it to contra dancers to share that with them, or at least with those that will. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:58:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 01:59:59 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Informational handouts To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702050659.BAA05938-AT- xis.com> I just found out that about 30 students from a local University Intro to Dance class will be attending the dance I'm calling next Monday. No, this is not a cry of panic. Actually I'm looking forward to it. There are a lot of opportunities here. E.g., teach the kids and the core dancers learn too. I would however welcome any tips or ideas. Getting to the point of this message though, I thought it would be nice to have a short handout about ECD that the students could take with them. Does anyone have anything that might be suitable? My computer can translate most formats, if your document is in a wordprocessing file. Thanks all. And so to bed, . . .. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 03:56:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 06:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: STEPPING TO HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 17:31:32 -0500 From: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- compuserve.com> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702041731_MC2-10B6-5C65-AT- compuserve.com> The recent posts regarding Hole in the Wall prompted me to review Rhodri Davies' and Howard Mitchell's posts on Wilf Darlington's research on the Lancashire and Chesire hornpipe and its historical antecedents. Howard notes Darlington's stepping as LLRRLR. I was AMAZED when I ran a few of our favorite 3/2 tunes in my head (Hole in the Wall, Easter Thursday, News from Tripoli...). Each 3/2 measure(bar) of each of these tunes has a distinctive pattern of smooth pattern at the beginning of the bar, ending with two pointed notes (quarter notes-- crochets for those East of here). I always thought it a musical curiosity-- why would all these Purcell-era hornpipes share this distinctive rhythm?-- but IT FITS THIS STEPPING PATTERN!! Think of it: same-foot, same-foot, change-feet / same-foot, same-foot, change-feet... You can almost sing these words to H in the W. Rhodri says the stepping does indeed fit Chesire Rounds and Hole in the Wall, and, though tricky, is capable of being "ingrained." (Is this like shin splints? :-) ) So how do we get a copy of a complete description of this stepping?? Of course all this is conjecture based on extrapolating current practice backwards, but it sure is tempting... as Julia and Kitty Keller have told us, we just don't know WHAT they did back then. And if the modern Lancashire 3/2 hornpipe step is to the historical hornpipe as the modern Lancashire strutting teen-aged girl pom-pom Morris is to historical Morris, well.... Gene Murrow EC Dancer and Caller anticipating the day when dancers sit out Hole in the Wall as much as Morpeth Rant ------------------------------------------ THIS IS A REPLY TO THE ABOVE MESSAGE SUBJECT OF THE REPLY: STEPPING TO HOLE IN THE -REPLY ------------------------------------------ re: hole in the wall and stepping: Gene, forgive my ignorance, and i know we aren't positive how this is all done, but could you elucidate on LLRRLR for me? is it a step-hop kind of thing? i tried it in my head, and of course it works; i wonder how it would go over with the usual cast of dancers. sounds like work to moi (and i'd STILL love to see it done faster). sharon "inquiring mind" mckinley and not an official ranter for any government agency. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 04:43:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 13:42:45 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F88045.3B4F-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702041955.OAA04779-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Rich Jackson mentioned the version of Portsmouth in the Neal collection. I can add that is a real nice dance -- I learned a few years ago in Holland. Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 05:07:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 14:07:20 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Playford all over the world? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32F88608.67CA-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <855097175.55681.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> In previous messages Martin and Bob wrote about Playford style dancing in England, USA, France: In France, Playford style dances are not done like they are done in the USA, nor as they are done in England. At least, if you refer to the highly stylized manner of dancing of the Guilcher dancers. Last Christmas, I met Mireille Hacquet, a dancer from Rouen, at the NVS Christmas Course. She had been to Pinewoods 1996. She sort of disliked the large amount of dances done during one week (let's guess, 75?). In France, she said you would learn like 4 or 5 dances (per day?) and do them real well (and probably know them by hard). Maybe this anecdote helps a bit to understand different habits and tastes. Probably the French are closer to the original Sharp style and way of teaching and programming. I learned ECD in Belgium between 1975 and 1980 from teachers who in turn were trained before and during the Second World War by English teachers. Style, doing things precisely, ... were very, very important. That is where I really learned to dance ... As for differences between England and America, it has a lot today with the sort of people who are on the floor. One other difference I experienced during my teaching, is the way dancers cope with (new) dances. America still has a core program -- take a look at the book "The Playford Ball" and you know what I mean. In England those dances are still around, too, but MANY others are being danced, too. For example, I could attend a dance in the UK and not know maybe half of the called dances! English dancers got trained in quickly responding to new and often complicated material. American dancers are less trained in that. And don't take that as a shortcoming, please. Let's keep the differences as they are. ECD shouldn't become generic, should it? Philippe Callens Belgium ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 05:57:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:58:03 -0500 (EST) From: morganj-AT- iupui.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford all over the world? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's a little difficulty to generalize about US dancers, but I don't think the Americans are any more faithful to a canon of Sharp dances than the English. I was looking at a recent ad for a Nashville ball, and found that I didn't recognize half the dance names on the program. Shows what a 10 year hiatus will do. Jim Morgan morganj-AT- iupui.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:01:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:57:53 -0500 From: Brad Foster Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970205145753.0067b578-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:13 PM 2/3/97 -0800, Allen wrote: >Actually, I'd been meaning to enquire whether contra/english antipathy was as >strong elsewhere as it sometimes seems to be in California. My experience, both geographically and over time, is quite varied. I don't think I could come up with any universal statement -- I've heard people on both sides of the English/contra divide complain about or put down the other (as well as people on both sides of the English/Scottish divide); on the other hand, I find many who cross any of those lines. Often, the older & more established the dance group, the greater the split. > 1) "Joy of motion" kinds of dances... > "Female Saylor" I don't like this as an intro to English because the 2s are out so much. > "Jack's Health" > "Dublin Bay" > "Knole Park" > "Young Widow" [Lots of balances] All great choices. Juice of Barley, Christina, Barbarini's Tambourine are fine too. Childgrove, perhaps with Pat Shaw siding works too, plus set dances like Levi Jackson, Wibsey Roundabout... There are many others. One very important consideration is do you like the dance? If you are not enthusiastic yourself, it is hard to teach with enthusiasm, and that enthusiasm is more important than the dance itself in this situation. > 2) Another approach would be to do something *really* different...something dreamy like > > "Well Hall" > "Wood Duck" > "Northdown Waltz" > "Duke of Kent's Waltz" Margaret's Waltz is great too. At 06:56 PM 2/3/97 -0500, Erna-Lynne wrote: >Ideas for attracting contra dancers to English > >1) Give them English dances which have some relatively obvious connection > to contra so that they are not totally in a new context... While I still believe that, I also feel that contrast is important. I will now introduce slow dances where I used to avoid them. But then, it depends on the context, the crowd, the band, the phase of the moon, what I ate for dinner... > >5) MOST IMPORTANT: Let your own enthusiasm for ECD break out... YES! At 11:37 AM 2/4/97 -0500, Barbara Ruth wrote: >I suggest giving 'em Mad Robin. A great dance, but it can be difficult with groups that don't/won't phrase things. The key moments are when the two men trading places at end of 1st A, and (even more important) two women trading places at end of 2nd A. It is such an easy figure, no one seems to pay attention to the phrasing, and then they are too late to make the second part work well. Lilliburlero is another one that feels like it ought to work, but which can be very confusing. When I teach it I teach the trading places with neighbor backing up part, but then often just call "pass right with neighbor" leaving it up to them to back up if they're up to it. Brad --------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Foster Country Dance and Song Society Executive and Artistic Director 17 New South St brad.foster-AT- cdss.org; office-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.cdss.org/ 413-584-9913; Fax: 413-585-8728 --------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:01:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:57:59 -0500 From: Brad Foster Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: King's maggot To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970205145759.006c89cc-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:49 AM 2/4/97 -0500, Sharon wrote: >...in Fried Herman's "Potter's Porch,"* >*As Brad would say, available through the CDSS store. Unfortunately, that is not true. We are out of stock of everything of Fried's except Ease & Elegance, and Fried has no more of the rest to sell us right now. She might have a few Potter's Porch of her own, or it might be totally out of print. On the other hand, if you write her and ask for the dance, you will probably get a copy of the relevant page plus a personal note. She loves correspondence. I've heard she likes to get 25 cents per page for copies, but I don't know for sure. Feel free to ask if she has any copies of the book left. Brad --------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Foster Country Dance and Song Society Executive and Artistic Director 17 New South St brad.foster-AT- cdss.org; office-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.cdss.org/ 413-584-9913; Fax: 413-585-8728 --------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 07:01:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 09:58:01 -0500 From: Brad Foster Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Cynthia's Waltz? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970205145801.006ca39c-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:59 AM 2/4/97 -0500, Eric Arnold wrote: >This one wasn't Cynthia's Waltz ... The moves, as I recall them, were: > > Rh across once around, loop left into > L shoulder gypsy with partner once and a half. > Lh across once around, loop right into > R shoulder gypsy with partner once and a half. > Taking ballroom position with partner, waltz around other couple > counterclockwise, first couple ending on (proper) men's side. > (final figure which escapes me at the moment to finish progression > and use up 8 bars of music) The dance is Laura's Waltz, "written to celebrate the marriage of Laura Robertson and David Gorzsas", by David Macemon and Cynthia Stenger. You can reach David and Cynthia at "stengermacemon-AT- usa.pipeline.com". Dance was written to a tune by Bob Pasquarello perhaps called "L is For...". End of dance: Women pass right shoulders to start 1/2 hey for four across; 1/2 ladies chain to progressed place. I've added spaces in your notes above to separate out the various sections. I'd suggest contacting David and Cythia and getting a copy of the dance with tune. Brad --------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Foster Country Dance and Song Society Executive and Artistic Director 17 New South St brad.foster-AT- cdss.org; office-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.cdss.org/ 413-584-9913; Fax: 413-585-8728 --------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:30:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:24:38 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > re: different dances to the same tunes: > the point has been raised tha most ECD dances have a standard > tune, and most tunes serve but one dance. any theories as to why > this is the case, when your average contra has many possibilities > (contras DO run longer, and it would bore the musicians to tears. > that's MY personal theory. So sad, bore the musicians. When I think of how many times a year Bare Necessities has played Orleans Baffled in the last 20 years, I feel sorry for musicians who get bored playing the same tune more than 9 times. I realize that not all musicians can work and rework the music the way BN does, but still there's lots of growing and learning to do in playing a melody and its harmonies over and over. And there's much pleasure to give the dancers by getting the knack. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:30:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:24:52 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3/4 - 3/2 To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >Thanks for the suggestion. You may not believe this, but I find St. >Margaret's Hill very uninteresting. It has, in my opinion, a bad story >line and even its wonderful tune doesn't make this dance acceptable to >me. Chaque un a son gout! Hope you'll come dance with us in Boston some time. St. Margaret's Hill is a real treasure there. Maybe there's something about how we deal with it that might show why we love it? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 08:30:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:24:28 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've found the Bishop to be extremely successful with contra dancers, because they get off on the gypsy and the gates. They're not accustomed to the triple concept, but the big circles really make it clear, and as long as someone reaches out for the gates with them it doesn't matter if they miss the gypsy a few times. Also, you can prompt it with very few words. If they're good dancers, they might respond well to Bellamira. They also might be able to handle Dublin Bay. Also Nobody's Jigg, Queen's Jig, Trip to Ridgewood. For a real intriguing rouser, try K & E. LLL is good for just before the break, as well. It's got swings, they have to think a little, they know how to do Sicils. or you can straighten it out for them into lines and it's just another crossed-over contra. When they get better offer them Orleans, too. Many can't handle how quickly things fly by in Orleans, they don't grok the three changes. But if the crowd is mixed good and intermediate dancers, the goods can pull the rest through for a while until the light bulb goes on. Most contra dancers understand about heys, but only oin a line, for four people. The idea of fewer than four throws them for a while, until they see the logic. So I'd avoid Jack's Maggot until they get the mood. I'd especially avoid any thing that tempts you to lots of words. Get down on the floor and grab a piece of the set and show it, then have everyone do what you showed to the music. Break it down into demonstrate-able pieces, alternating them with everyone dancing to the live music. Doodle while you're demonstrating, and make sure you're demonstrating with some real dancers in the set, not all good dancers either. I'd say if you can't describe it in as few words as you might walk through a contra dance, refine your calls. If that doesn't work, don't do it. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:43:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 12:29:04 -0500 (EST) From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Blue Mountain Band To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <970206172903_100116.165_EHU88-4-AT- CompuServe.COM> Let me second Margaret Whaley's recommendation: Blue Mountain Band are excellent at both American and English music. Book them! Colin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 21:41:57 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: One Dance per Tune or One Tune per Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702060241.VAA13566-AT- xis.com> > Rich said (in part) Except that insightful post was from Howard, not me. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 13:05:02 +0000 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford all over the world? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <855234357.622741.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> Philippe wrote: > Let's keep the differences as they are. ECD shouldn't become generic, > should it? There are lots of things I like about the dance scene in England, and lots of the I like about the dance scene in the States. I get different experiences out of both of them and I really enjoy that. I think that one of the nice things about ECD / Playford / contra is that there is this variation, within countries as well as internationally. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 21:41:57 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: goals for newish ECD group To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702060241.VAA13569-AT- xis.com> > What should we keep in mind when setting up the programs for future > dances? Any advice on directions to take or goals to strive for? In addition to the ideas already cited, building a sense of dance community. I.e., Issues like choosing partners in a way that is inclusive, welcoming new dancers, dancing as a whole set not just as a couple, dancers helping each other learn without being intrusive, etc. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 23:45:48 -0500 (EST) From: Will Linden Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: FLOWERS (NO DANCE CONTENT) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 3 Feb 1997, Paul J. Stamler wrote: > > Back to "Heidenroslein"; the more I look at it, the more I think the poem's > drama is couched in the flower-language. In this language, "rose" > symbolizes Love itself, so the young (presumably naive) man is announcing > he will seize Love, and Love announces it will prick him, etc. etc.. This > rings more believably for me, given the familiarity of romantic poets > with this well-known symbolic language, than any literal interpretation. > Not to mention its use in the classic ROMAN DE LA ROSE. Will Linden wlinden-AT- panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:33:00 -0500 (EST) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: English Folk Band Tour To: ECD Message-ID: <970205163259_101454.633_IHP164-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> In answer to Rick Galloway's questions: I've spoken to Rick Smith, leader of the Blue Mountain Band. There are going over to the States for the Spring Ville International Festival, near Salt Lake City - to accompany the demonstation group - English Lavender. The festival is 11th-20th July. They are looking for opportunities to play after this. There are 5 members of the band - guitar, keyboard, cello, recorder/banjo and Rick on fiddle. They specialise in Playford & English, but also play Amercian Squares and Contras. They have played with Bernard Chalk, and there is a possibility of some tie up with him after the festival. They play at Cecil Sharp House quite regularly. Hope this helps!! Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire (Rick is quite amazed that I can talk to you all like this!!!! Modern technology is a wonderful thing!!) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 09:58:42 -0500 (EST) From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin Hume's 'Midwinter' To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <970206145841_100116.165_EHU105-6-AT- CompuServe.COM> My thanks to Margaret Whaley for her kind remarks about my dance last Saturday. It's not really true to say that "Midwinter" is to the tune of "In the Bleak Midwinter", so maybe this will pacify some people; it has its own tune (rather more notey), and "In the Bleak Midwinter" is used as a counter-melody. I suggested that the band use the countermelody only on the 5th, 7th and 8th time through the tune, but they forgot, so it was more prominent than I had intended. I actually thought people would be so busy listening to the instructions that they wouldn't notice the countermelody! No plans to publish it at the moment, but I'll be calling it in the States if I have a group of good dancers and plenty of room. For those who don't want to be pacified, I have an ENTIRE BOOK of Playford style dances to existing Playford tunes - is nothing sacred?! Colin ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 10:49:59 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>enticing contra dancers -------------------------------------- A couple of years ago at the Albany, NY, area "Dance Flurry" week-end, I was asked to lead a session introducing contra dancers (the vast majority of the thousand-plus dancers at the week-end) to English dancing. I hit the prejudice issue head-on, and titled the session "English Dances That Don't Suck." The title put a few noses out of joint, but the session was PACKED. Gene Murrow EC Dancer who doesn't even have cable TV ---------------------------------------------------------------- Oh that was your workshop Gene? I figured from the title is was a session for people who didn't like English dancing, and since I already loved English I skipped it and went to all the other great English sessions that year. Probably just as well though, if it was already overcrowded. See you there. Barbara Ruth EC Dancer who doesn't even have a VCR, and only one working channel on her TV ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:24:56 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > re: hole in the wall: > ooh, ooh, push another button, why don't ya. i've always felt > that HITW was danced too slowly. i wonder if the musicians think > it's prettier that way. it's a legitimate piece of "classical" > music (handel, maybe? purcell?), and when i heard it played in > context, was delighted with its liveliness. if we danced it closer > to that speed than to that normally provided, the dance would work > much better. It does sound prettier to me as a musician at a slow pace. Some tunes have the knack of telling you what tempo to play them at, and HITW says, "play me slow". Unfortunately, when you dance it at that tempo, it's excruciating. Weird dissonance. Maybe it only sounds good slow to us because we've always heard it that way; maybe we need to work on arrangements that push toward a quicker tempo. When we play it at proper dance speed I always feel the tune pulling me to slow down. Does this happen to anyone else out there, or am I just strange? Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:43:45 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970205114345.b5d6-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Random Thoughts Boredom comes from repetition. Compared to late 17th early 18th century activities, I suspect we dance more often and, through ECD's only, explore a liimited portion of the dances available and enjoyed at that time. What intimidates or prohibits us from exploring other popular dances of the day, and making them part of our ongoing dance occasions, is driven by at least two factors: That's the area Cecil Sharp explored most, in terms of our current practice; most of the others require (so it seems to us) complicated steps, arm movements, etc., that take that period's other dances out of the commonplace and into the complicated. Musicians that I respect and enjoy making music with are truly driven by two goals: Service to the dance and its dancers; the pleasure of making wonderful music with like-mindeds. Dances with specific lengths, specific repetitions, are fine. Long contra-type lines and endless repetitions of the proscribed tune are something else. In my playing opportunities, that only happens once, perhaps twice in the evening so it's not so bad. Leaders need to be aware of the problem in terms of the dancers, too. Do they need to, want to listen to the same &-AT- #$* tune over and over again? Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 11:34:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 5 Feb 1997, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > So sad, bore the musicians. When I think of how many times a year Bare > Necessities has played Orleans Baffled in the last 20 years, I feel sorry > for musicians who get bored playing the same tune more than 9 times. > > I realize that not all musicians can work and rework the music the way BN > does, but still there's lots of growing and learning to do in playing a > melody and its harmonies over and over. And there's much pleasure to give > the dancers by getting the knack. Emily raises a couple of good issues here. John Kirkpatrick touches on one of them in his classic essay, "Medley-mania" (printed in "Opus Pocus"). By playing the same tune for a long time, there is (if you're any good) a second wind point where you've tried every variation you can think of, and so you start playing without really thinking, in something resembling a trance. Some nights, this turns into the best possible playing, where you've broken through the thinking barrier. It's very hard to put into words, but anyone who's danced him/herself into ecstasy will know what I'm talking about. It's also true, however, that some tunes lend themselves to this much better than others. Occasionally I'll come across a tune that really doesn't want to be played more than about two ways; heaven help us if it's paired with a longways dance. Then there are the tunes that we hate to quit--my favorite of those is "Jamaica", where I feel like I'm finding new corners of the tune after twenty or thirty times through. "Elizabeth" is another. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 23:56:45 -0800 From: Jim Mieczkowski Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall/Formerly: enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <32F98EBD.7F83-AT- snet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702041858.NAA19437-AT- panix4.panix.com> On Tue, 04 Feb Sharon Green wrote: > > "Hole in the Wall" does present problems. I was interested in Rhodri > Davies' remarks a while back on doing some version of stepping in that > dance. I once attended a Baroque workshop with Jody McGeen at which we > worked on doing baroque steps to the figures of the dance--I would guess > that Rhodri had something else in mind, but I don't know. > > Any input on how to move in "Hole in the Wall"? Julia, Rhodri, Alisa [Is Jody lurking?], others--? > Hi Sharon, Hole in the Wall feels great when I keep an erect, forward posture and step high up on the soles of my feet 1/2 beat ahead of the music. Then slowly sink into the a flat foot on the beat. A slow rhythm adds to the stateliness(sp?) of the dance. I can't wait to try Gene's LLRRLR Rhythm. It fits the music perfectly and sounds like a Baroque Tango. The Corner Crossings are confounding if one begins with the right foot. However, the LLRRLR would indicate beginning with the left - Voila! As a matter of fact, Christine Helwig recently pointed out that early English dances were derived from an earlier dance form, I believe it was Renaissance, which began with the left foot. She said that for early English dances, the first step is with the left. A proper siding (circular) is done with a "double" step, starting with the LEFT, and returning with the RIGHT. (Perhaps you should verify this with Christine.) In any case, we tried a few of these, and I was quite surprised at how good this figure feels with this footwork. Such a great swirl. I'd like to try this in my kilt! Cheers, Jim Windsor, Connecticut ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:44:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 18:34:11 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: More ceilidh questions To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IF3SN595IABJX9DH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- This is addressed primarily to those who run or attend or have attended English or English-style ceilidhs, which I have not - with the exception of Ken Smith's ceilidh-dance class at Mendocino, and some stuff done at a Morris ale by the Hammersmith men. My impression is that the dances themselves are, generally, simple and vigorous dances of the sort seen in early volumes of the Community Dance Manuals, not shying away from the ones with stepping. The stepping (rant, polka, others) can also be characterized as simple and vigorous. The music is eclectic and sometimes electric, if I have this right. I have only heard morris musicians and ECD musicians playing for these dances, so don't have a completely clear picture of what the music is like. Can anyone recommend tapes or CDs relatively-easily available to a Californian? CDSS doesn't seem to have a lot in stock like this. (I did get the very interesting "High Tea" tape by the New St. George, which includes an amazing version of "Maiden Lane" on what sounds like synthesizer - but I don't think they play it nine times through.) Is this the kind of sound that's on "Morris On"? Also, does a ceilidh program typically contain one after another of these vigorous dances without letup, or are they mixed with slower country dances, couple dances, or what? How often do breaks come? Is it just expected that anyone who needs a drink will skip the current dance and slope off to the bar? My curiousity is partly idle and partly purposeful. From what I hear and have seen, ceilidh dancing might (a) be a lot of fun in itself, (b) attract a younger group to Anglo-American traditional dancing, and (c) provide a common ground for American ECD and contra dancers, all of which seem like potentially good things and something to possibly do in my area. [This is something I've been chewing over for quite a while, so it will seem familiar to some of you.] It is not my intention to slavishly replicate an English ceilidh. To be successful, a dance series will have to be adjusted to fit the capabilities and interests of the attendees, but I would like to know as much as I can about the original model before I start making changes to it, so the changes are made by intent, not through ignorance. Thanks for any help you can offer, -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:45:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:44:53 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Paul: As I said before, Purcell's tune is called a hornpipe in his collected works! That would indicate a lively tempo; the dance itself, if done with standard steps of the period that were used for the same or similar figures, flows along at about MM 60 to the bar! In my estimation, there is no valid reason at all for a slower tempo. The basis for the slower tempo may have lain in the common misreading, 30 years ago or so, of white notes (minims) as indicating slow tempo. We do know better now. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 19:45:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:44:53 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Paul: As I said before, Purcell's tune is called a hornpipe in his collected works! That would indicate a lively tempo; the dance itself, if done with standard steps of the period that were used for the same or similar figures, flows along at about MM 60 to the bar! In my estimation, there is no valid reason at all for a slower tempo. The basis for the slower tempo may have lain in the common misreading, 30 years ago or so, of white notes (minims) as indicating slow tempo. We do know better now. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:37:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:39:21 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702070639.BAA22628-AT- xis.com> > Compared to late 17th early 18th century activities, I suspect we > dance more often and, through ECD's only, explore a limited > portion of the dances available and enjoyed at that time. I don't think the evidence supports your hypothesis. In 1715, one could find dancing virtually any night one wanted. There were dancers who danced regularly and dancers that danced infrequently. As far as dances available at the time, minuet, French dancing and country dancing were the standard fair. If you think we dance too many repetitions, imagine what it was like then when they had long lines, only the top couple was active at first, they danced until everyone was back to place. I can't say if there was a standard repertoire of country dances or if they turned them over frequently. We know that dances were repeated some, because of remarks about a favorite dance. When you get to a period where lists of dances have survived, we see a lot of overlap. The publishers tended to accumulate dances, adding new ones while retaining the old. So, there _appears_ to be a huge repertoire. But we don't know if publications reflect what was happening at dances. I've seen complaints about the quality of the company and the quality of the dancing, I've read comments to the effect that someone found dancing boring in general, but I've never seen anything to indicate anyone was bored with a particular dance, the selection of dances, how long a tune was played or how long a dance ran. [Lot's of careless generalizations above. Beware.] ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 1997 22:37:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 01:39:21 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702070639.BAA22653-AT- xis.com> > Leaders need to be aware of the problem in terms of the dancers, > too. Do they need to, want to listen to the same &-AT- #$* tune over > and over again? Speaking as a dancer, what makes country dancing truly special is being mesmerized until you are swept up in rapture; thoughts replaced by music, no longer an individual dancer but part of new entity held together by rhythmic movements and a common music. So yes, please bore me. Variations always, but switch tunes rarely. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 04:34:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:41:40 -0500 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > >> re: hole in the wall: >> ooh, ooh, push another button, why don't ya. i've always felt >> that HITW was danced too slowly. i wonder if the musicians think >> it's prettier that way. ... > Paul Stamler answered: >It does sound prettier to me as a musician at a slow pace. Some tunes >have the knack of telling you what tempo to play them at, and HITW says, >"play me slow". Unfortunately, when you dance it at that tempo, it's >excruciating. Weird dissonance. Maybe it only sounds good slow to us >because we've always heard it that way; maybe we need to work on >arrangements that push toward a quicker tempo. When we play it at proper >dance speed I always feel the tune pulling me to slow down. Does this >happen to anyone else out there, or am I just strange? And now from the other side... I'm a musician and a dancer and fortunately (or unfortunately, depends on your point of view) I have a lot of training not only in early music but also in early dance. It just kills me to hear HITW played and danced slowly... It makes the dance sound and look like an ECD Sacred Cow. MMMMMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It shouldn't sound like a Purcellian version of "Camptown Races" -- but should move along at a pretty good pace....remember, please, that all those little fast notes are written out ornaments, not notes with an importance and life of their own.... As far as dancing HITW slowly, most modern ECD dancers (or at least most of those without an awareness of "performing" dance) find it hard to fill the space and music with their movement. I had the pleasure of dancing this and one or two other Purcell era and style dances with someone who WAS aware of space and the music, and that made dancing really wonderful.... However the incredibly less-than-wonderful experience has been more common on this dance, at least for me... I usually sit this one out because it frustrates me too much and to me the beauty of the dance and music are lost at a slow speed. Sheila B Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News >>next BEMN Deadline 2/20 for March 15 issue! 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 voice: 508/263.9926 fax: 508/263.2366 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 05:22:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:48:20 +0000 From: bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: More ceilidh questions To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <855320646.1016853.0-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk> Alan Winston wrote: > My impression is that the dances themselves are, generally, simple and vigorous > dances of the sort seen in early volumes of the Community Dance Manuals, not > shying away from the ones with stepping. The stepping (rant, polka, others) > can also be characterized as simple and vigorous. The music is eclectic and > sometimes electric, if I have this right. That strikes me as a fair description > I have only heard morris musicians and ECD musicians playing for these dances, > so don't have a completely clear picture of what the music is like. Can anyone > recommend tapes or CDs relatively-easily available to a Californian? CDSS > doesn't seem to have a lot in stock like this. (I did get the very interesting > "High Tea" tape by the New St. George, which includes an amazing version of > "Maiden Lane" on what sounds like synthesizer - but I don't think they play it > nine times through.) Is this the kind of sound that's on "Morris On"? I think Hobgoblin Music had a Web page with a catalogue. They run the folk shop at Cecil Sharp House and would probably be worth getting in touch with. Other record suppliers include Decoy in Manchester (Rhod, do you have an address for them) and Projection Records who are down south somewhere. Sorry I don't have more details available but I'm at work at the moment. I have no idea who there might be importing this sort of stuff to the States. Recommended recordings: Anything by Peeping Tom Banjax, "Chaos in One" (I seem to recall hearing that they had a new CD out but haven't come across it) Tickled Pink (sorry, can't remember the name of the recording I have) Florida "Splitting the night" Token Women, "The Rhythym Method" > Also, does a ceilidh program typically contain one after another of these > vigorous dances without letup, or are they mixed with slower country dances, > couple dances, or what? How often do breaks come? Is it just expected that > anyone who needs a drink will skip the current dance and slope off to the bar? Typically the dances are done without letup. The slower dances tend to be the ones with the stepping - polka, hornpipe so that they are still "high energy" dances even if the tempo is down a little. Usually one break in the middle of the evening just to let everyone cool off a little. The number of couple dances depends on the caller and the band, for example Token Women do a lot of continental style bourees. Occasionally there's even a waltz. In general anyone who wants a drink will skip a dance and wander off to the bar ( there is almost always a bar ). It's very difficult to describe this accurately, partly because there is a lot of variation so don't take what I've just said as gospel. Also I can't capture the atmosphere of a really good ceilidh in words. Your best bet is to come over and go to a few ceilidhs. Sidmouth festival has great late night ceilidhs as does Chippenham. There are a number of ceilidh series around the country - Wigan, Coventry and the M27 Megabops spring to mind. You might want to ask more about these on uk.music.folk. > My curiousity is partly idle and partly purposeful. From what I hear and have > seen, ceilidh dancing might (a) be a lot of fun in itself, (b) attract a > younger group to Anglo-American traditional dancing, and (c) provide a common > ground for American ECD and contra dancers, all of which seem like potentially > good things and something to possibly do in my area. [This is something I've > been chewing over for quite a while, so it will seem familiar to some of you.] It is a lot of fun in itself, and certainly in England it attracts a much younger crowd (or at least, it has a much wider spread of ages). Having said that, the Playford / contra scene over here is generally much older then in the States. I can go to a dance and be the youngest person there by 20 years (I'm 31). At the moment, my feeling is that the ceilidh scene is what is going to keep the overall dance scene going for a while in this country. Feel free to email me personally if you have any more specific questions. (If you really want I can post you the list of dances I've called at ceilidhs) Bob ---------------------------------------------------------- -- Bob Archer bob-AT- hottub.demon.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 05:55:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:54:48 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Hole in the Wall To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702070854_MC2-10FD-73FE-AT- compuserve.com> A couple of recent posts (Sharon McKinley and Jim Mieczkowski) referred to "Gene's LLRRLR" stepping sequence. I was just quoting Howard Mitchell (following a post by Rhodri Davies), who was referring to some research by Wilf Darlington. All I gleaned from this notation was a general pattern which seemed to fit the Purcell-era hornpipe quite well. I know nothing more about how the step was actually reconstructed (step-hops? demi-coupe's? what?), but am VERY curious. Any further references we could all follow, Rhodri or Howard? Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 06:13:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 06:14:42 -0700 (PDT) From: HUGH-AT- edsug.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: More ceilidh questions To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IF4HN5ZHDE001WLC-AT- UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I am amused by Alan's wondering about running a Ceilidh series as a way of bringing new blood into the dance scene because I am involved in running a Contra dance series in England for precisely the same reasons! An obvious contact is Phil Katz in Seattle; he (and several others from that area) have been to Sidmouth and can report first-hand on what they encountered. I would make two caveats:- Firstly Ceilidh dances tend to aim for a different market from ECD (and to a lesser extent Contra) -- they generally involve more "showing off" for one person/couple and less "teamwork"; as Bob said they tend to be hard work with the assumption that you will retreat to the bar when you are exhausted. In particular they tend to be for a "once a year" (or once every month or two for the keen) market, rather than for the "once a week" (or every other day for the keen) dance-club market. I think that people who dance frequently can get bored by the sameness and simplicity many of the dances, and get exhausted trying to dance them all (keen dancers go to a dance to dance, other people go to a social event that happens to include dancing and don't expect to dance many dances.) Specifically I have seen student Ceilidh clubs (meeting weekly) fade out because the students lost interest after a while. The other problem is music style. I hope nobody be upset if I say that all contra dance tunes sound the same, but I have been dancing a contra and suddenly realised that the band was playing Morpeth Rant (or Soldier's Joy). If you ask that sort of band to play for a Ceilidh you will not get the energy and stepping you want. I have been to "an English dance" in Boston (MA) where I and my partner "knew" we should be doing some kind of skip-step for the strip-the-willow in the Willow Tree, but nobody else in the room was doing anything more than a contra walk-step; the music was not telling anyone anything else. Oh yes -- I may as well tell you of the time when I did Cumberland Square Eight in the States. The caller said "head couples sashay across" so they all changed places sedately; I (in true Engish style) galloped off for 8 counts as far as I could go: across my set, and through the next; my partner made some comment along the lines of "Boy are you into sasheys!" and the set we galloped into got very territorial and made sure they blocked our way the next turn through the dance. You may have some cultural problems getting Ceilidhs into the American dance scene. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 06:20:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 14:17:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Interface Analysis Centre Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: More ceilidh questions To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII > I think Hobgoblin Music had a Web page with a catalogue. They run > the folk shop at Cecil Sharp House and would probably be worth > getting in touch with. http://www.hobgoblin.com/ > > Typically the dances are done without letup. The slower dances tend > to be the ones with the stepping - polka, hornpipe so that they are > still "high energy" dances even if the tempo is down a little. > Usually one break in the middle of the evening just to let everyone > cool off a little. And to watch the, usually, morris interlude spot. > > Your best bet is to come over and go to a few ceilidhs. Sidmouth > festival has great late night ceilidhs as does Chippenham. There are > a number of ceilidh series around the country - Wigan, Coventry and > the M27 Megabops spring to mind. You might want to ask more about > these on uk.music.folk. You can find ceilidh listings, along with reviews of bands, links to their own pages, etc. at: http://www.ftech.co.uk/~webfeet/eceilidh/index.html Keith ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 06:34:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:30:37 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970207083037.b428-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Paul: The "Weird dissonance" you refer to is called a "cross-relationship" and, as you accept it as part of the style, it is delightful. Gesualdo was doing those in his Madrigals during the Renaissance. There are fleeting moments in his works that make you think of the old Stan Kenton band harmonies. Exquisite! I also remember a badly produced but well played record of HitW by what must have been a Pinewoods group, but led by Phil Merril. The tempo was considerably faster than what we use today. I have danced to it, and was able to be 'comfortably upright' throughout, no feeling of falling over or losing my balance. Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 06:46:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:42:41 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Mart Harding To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970207084241.b428-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Many of you may already know of the passing of R. Mart Harding, husband of Barbara Harding. He passed away Wednesday, 2/5. I remember Mart as a superb dancer in years past until Diabetes began to take his strength and physical capabilities. Barbara and Mart attended Berea's Christmas Dance School for years, one of two who have had a longer consecutive attendance than me (25 years this past school. The other would be Pat Napier). They had a very short-lived NewCamp at Frostberg, MD around 1980. Barbara heads up the Old Dominion Dancers and Mart served as cheerleader and business manager. Sympathies to Barbara and the family ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 07:57:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:57:28 -0700 (MST) From: Rebecca Gore Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702071557.IAA19926-AT- math.math.unm.edu> I've been listening to this for a while and finally felt the urge to throw in my two cents worth. > >On Tue, 4 Feb 1997, SHARON MCKINLEY wrote: > >> re: hole in the wall: >> ooh, ooh, push another button, why don't ya. i've always felt >> that HITW was danced too slowly. i wonder if the musicians think >> it's prettier that way. it's a legitimate piece of "classical" >> music (handel, maybe? purcell?), and when i heard it played in >> context, was delighted with its liveliness. if we danced it closer >> to that speed than to that normally provided, the dance would work >> much better. > >It does sound prettier to me as a musician at a slow pace. Some tunes >have the knack of telling you what tempo to play them at, and HITW says, >"play me slow". Unfortunately, when you dance it at that tempo, it's >excruciating. Weird dissonance. Maybe it only sounds good slow to us >because we've always heard it that way; maybe we need to work on >arrangements that push toward a quicker tempo. When we play it at proper >dance speed I always feel the tune pulling me to slow down. Does this >happen to anyone else out there, or am I just strange? > I've danced Hole in the Wall to any number of different tempos and have a wide range of tempos on various tapes. I happen to *prefer* it slower as I feel it presents much more of a challange to actually dance to the music. Is it a statement on our times that we feel we need to rush through everything in life? I really like being able at times to just smell the roses or in this case feel the music. Just another ramble, Rebecca Gore ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 08:52:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 09:52:26 -0700 (MST) From: Rebecca Gore Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702071652.JAA20528-AT- math.math.unm.edu> Also, in terms of the stepping sequence LLRRLR, please add me to the request list for more information. How does one go LL? Is it L hop L or LRL pause or some other variation that I at the moment cannot visulize. Also, exactly how does the stepping patter fit to the music. From someone who never seems to be "there". R. Gore ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:26:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 10:17:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 7 Feb 1997 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > The "Weird dissonance" you refer to is called a "cross-relationship" and, > as you accept it as part of the style, it is delightful. Gesualdo was > doing those in his Madrigals during the Renaissance. There are fleeting > moments in his works that make you think of the old Stan Kenton band > harmonies. Exquisite! The dissonance I referred to was not between notes or chords, but between the dance's preferred tempo and the one I get from the music. Which I am poking at and progging to see how it works as a true hornpipe. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 11:14:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 14:13:44 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Finishes for dance floors. To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A dance space that we have been using for some time is managed by a condo association which, for reasons of its own, or of other users whose needs appear to be different from ours, keeps tweaking the surface of their floor so that we have no idea what to expect. They seem to think it needs refinishing long before I would make that judgement, so when they do, it always takes us by surprise. We have ascertained that they appear about to do this again, so we would like to try to influence their choice of refinishing methods so that the result is both more predictable and more danceable than it has been in the recent past. Mostly these days it is entirely too slippery, with slick spots which exceed the general slipperiness so that they are almost like smooth ice. Even with sneakers or rubber-soled walking shoes, it is difficult to get enough traction to execute most ECD figures that require that an individual dancer change direction rapidly without the benefit of another dancer to hang on to, so things like figures-of-8, heys, and quick casts tend to be executed with great difficulty and no grace, and our dancing suffers considerably from this. It is bad enough that we are seriously considering changing halls even though other features of this site, such as location, facilities, decor, and cost are more favorable than alternative choices. The floor is a nice hardwood floor (oak, I think) that I believe they refinish with some sort of polyurethane finish. Right after they have put down a new surface, is is shiny and entirely too sticky. By teh next week they usually will have buffed it, perhaps in preparation for a second coat, but usually then it is about right. Then they either repeat the coating so that it goes back to sticky, or they put some sort of surface treatment on it, which usually leaves it too slippery. I'm not interested, nor do they tolerate, any sort of powder treatment that we would apply; we've tried that. What I would like to be able to do is to go to the management with specific recommendations for what they might do in the hopes that there is a treatment that would satisfy both them and us. But I need to have something to suggest before I can go to them, because I'm sure they don't know what to do. So how to folks out there keep their varnished floors in good shape for dancing? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:41:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 15:40:33 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Finishes for dance floors. To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702072040.PAA02832-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:13 PM 2/7/97 -0500, Eric Arnold wrote: >So how do folks out there keep their varnished floors in good shape for >dancing? CD*NY can also use some help with this question. Specifically, how can dancing coexist amicably with basketball, especially when the school that shares Duane Gym with us decides to repaint the court & varethane it in the course of a weekend? [Inevitably, the floor was still sticky at our Tuesday dance.] It's a problem. The poor janitor asked us whether we'd started putting powder on the floor at our dances. Possibly fresh varethane that hasn't been given sufficient time to cure sticks to whatever dust there is on our shoes and then wears off as powder--I don't know. I DO know the current situation isn't good for our relationship with Metropolitan Duane Church, a relationship that goes back over 50 years. Advice? Commiserations? Vacuum cleaners for sale cheap? Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:50:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 13:04:20 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK, I'll bite-- here are some variations on the view presented. >Random Thoughts > >Boredom comes from repetition. Compared to late 17th early 18th century >activities, I suspect we dance more often and, through ECD's only, explore >a liimited portion of the dances available and enjoyed at that time. Agreed. But though we may have explored only some of all the dances that have ever existed, I suspect our reptertory is as great or greater than that of any period of the past in English dancing. In the 17th and 18th century, people tended to dance the popular tunes of the day, abandonning those tunes after a few years, when others came into popularity. Some dances lasted through several decades, others died sooner, but the repertory of any particular time was somewhat limited. We have access to the entire history, plus a wealth of new dances being created by contemporary dancing masters such as Colin Hume and Fried De Metz Herman. What >intimidates or prohibits us from exploring other popular dances of the day, >and making them part of our ongoing dance occasions, is driven by at least >two factors: That's the area Cecil Sharp explored most, in terms of our >current practice; most of the others require (so it seems to us) complicated >steps, arm movements, etc., that take that period's other dances out of the >commonplace and into the complicated. ALL the dances that we do as ECD probably had stepping-- read Kitty Keller's "If the Company Can Do It" for details. We have simplified the dances, doing only the bare-bones floor patterns, but at the time they were written, the dancers were expected to embroider the patterns with steps. I agree that we are familiar primarily with the repertory that Sharpe chose to revive. And I can think of two more reasons why some of the older dances are not being done today. 1) Some of the descriptions are impossible to decipher-- they don't seem to fit the music, or have moves which don't seem possible from the positions you think the last move put you in. Reconstructors may fiddle with them to make them work, or may abandon them as hopeless to decode. 2) Some just weren't very interesting, or had awkward transitions, and aren't WORTH reviving. There were lots of run-of-the-mill dances thrown together at the time, and lots of uninspiring tunes. While it is nice to dance these occasionally, just to have something unusual to do, these dances are not likely to stay in the contemporary repertory when they have so much competition from the glorious dances of the past and the brilliant dances being created today. (In one reconstruction class I remember a dance that had a right-hands across halfway taking 8 beats--of course stepping would have been used at the time it was written to take up the extra beats, but today we use a dance walk, and that gets you there in four--the dance drags when you take 8. So we never do that dance, or at least, not as it was written) >Musicians that I respect and enjoy making music with are truly driven by >two goals: Service to the dance and its dancers; the pleasure of making >wonderful music with like-mindeds. up to here we agree completely Dances with specific lengths, specific >repetitions, are fine. Long contra-type lines and endless repetitions of >the proscribed tune are something else. In my playing opportunities, that >only happens once, perhaps twice in the evening so it's not so bad. Leaders >need to be aware of the problem in terms of the dancers, too. Do they >need to, >want to listen to the same &-AT- #$* tune over and over again? > >Forbes/Baker University Emphatically yes. I wouldn't want to dance Hamblton's Round-O or Mad Robin to any other tunes but the ones written! I can listen to great musicians play those same &-AT- #$+ tunes forever, because they are great tunes, because something new is always happening-- one time its flowing with a quiet hypnotism, and the next time its got drive and energy,and the next the flute is playing a delicious obligato. For the 'classic' dances like Fandango, the dancer can stop thinking about patterns, because the music pushes your feet-- there is an association with the tune that comes from always dancing the same pattern to the same tune. You hear the B melody start and your feet automatically know what to do. A lot of dancers would become disoriented by having a different tune thrown at them, and would have to think about what to do next, taking them out of the hypnotic-flow mode in which they usually operate. Interesting that you do only a couple of longways in an evening. We do mostly longways dances with a few set dances thrown in. We tend to do set dances more than once, though, so we'd probably dance a three couple set dance 2 or 3 times through the dance, which is 6 or 9 times through the music. We dance a longways dance about 12-14 times here-- maybe a bit longer for the triple minors. Thats enough to pass the melody around to a few different instruments, to hear some different textures, to have it get quiet and dreamy, and then to explode with sound for the last time through, and to have had each time through the tune sounding totally different. I suppose if your tradition was to dance each dance 20-24 times, things would be different. And if the band played the tune the same way each time, it WOULD get boring-- I'm speaking from the perspective of dancing in Seattle, where we are fortunate to have 4 English bands of very high quality who can create this kind of endless variation and excitement with the familiar tunes. I think it helps to have bands that play together a lot over time, and get used to each others' style. The magic among musician you talk about earlier happens best when the musicians are really tuned in to each other's psyches. Someone gets a musical idea, and everyone picks it up and tosses it around for one time through--and the tune has been reinvented to the delight of both the musicians and the dancers. Vicky Bestock ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 16:38:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 19:41:12 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Finishes for dance floors. To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Eric asked about floor finishes, detailing our dilemma in A2. Sharon responded noting that she had seen powders fly by. Come to think of it, we have too. The thing that we are really hoping to find is the name of a floor finishing product (either the varnish or else the wax) that we can suggest to the condo owners. Aside from our dancing, the floor is mostly used for parties which may be disco, baby showers, etc. I get the sense that it takes a beating in spilled food and drink (hence the constant refinishing), so they will want a fairly sturdy finish. We are the only dance group with much concern about the finish, so they will only take our advice for something if it is sturdy *and* not so slippery. If people have advice, too, about buffing schedules etc, it would be helpful. Erna-Lynne ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 17:12:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 20:09:29 -0500 From: Mary K Friday (by way of Brad Foster ) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Death of Red Harding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970208010929.006ca760-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Some of you may have known Mart (Red) Harding. Here is a message I just received. In case you haven't already heard, Barbara Harding's husband died yesterday (I believe); the funeral will be tomorrow (Saturday). mkf Also, we recently heard that Chip Hendrickson was in hospital after a stroke. Sorry to bring bad news. By the way, we've brought our web page somewhat up to date, so if you've avoided looking there because it was always the same, come take a look. Brad ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 21:05:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 00:03:57 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Colin's dance in a line To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Then he called "Midwinter" - his latest. > >If you want a dance with a challenge - this is it!!!!!!!! > >It took us quite a while to get it - with comments from Colin like "Trust me - >I wrote it!" but in the end we successed - well our set did!! > >(It was worth waiting for our cuppa to do it a second time!) > >Done to the carol "In a Bleak midwinter" - it's a 4-couples longways - >although you wouldn't think so as the set starts in a single line - men >facing down, ladies up - like Dargeson. Somehow, during one sequence of the >dance, we turned ourselves into a conventional longways - danced with our >partner - and then got back to a long line, - although this time the men were >at the bottom facing up, and the ladies at the top facing down - we'd all >progressed and were ready to start the 2nd sequence - - It's very, very >clever!!! Well, Colin, How does it go? Tell us! > Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 01:25:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 01:12:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thank you, Vicky, for saying very well what I said badly. Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 02:05:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 11:08:32 +0100 From: Martin.Sheffield-AT- wanadoo.fr (Martin Sheffield) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >we'd probably dance a three couple set >dance 2 or 3 times through the dance, which is 6 or 9 times through the >music. We dance a longways dance about 12-14 times here-- maybe a bit >longer for the triple minors. (...) > if your tradition was to dance each dance 20-24 times (...) Really ? !!! You do that many repetitions? I wouldn't have thought it possible. (no criticism or anything implied, just surprise) >Thats enough to pass the melody around to a >few different instruments, to hear some different textures, to have it get >quiet and dreamy, and then to explode with sound for the last time through, >and to have had each time through the tune sounding totally different. I guess you have some pretty good musicians. > In Seattle, we have 4 English bands of very high quality who can >create this kind of endless variation and excitement with the familiar >tunes. I'll be looking you up when I come to Washington! With French folk dancing, each dance has its own tune, and I find it very dull when the thing goes on and on and on. I've never noticed much variation from one moment to another. Scottish country dance bands usually play a tune for 64 bars only, which implies 4 different tunes for a typical length (8 x 32 bar) dance. With slow strathspey music, there is often a change of tune every 32 bars. I enjoy this variety and listen for the changes and the new tunes -- each band has its own selection. i feel this is one of the attractions of SCD. The idea of doing a dance more than 8 times through ... no, there are so many interesting dances waiting to be done, I feel satisfied with 8 times through, and am ready to move on to the next dance on the program. My feeling about the one dance-one tune question: Scots dancers, too, say it's the music that tells you what to do. I say this is rubbish, in that the figure you do to part A (for example, with some setting) may be quite different from the one you do when A is repeated (with maybe some flowing movement). Ditto for part B, as well as for subsequent tunes that are played. In other words, we do both different figs to the same tune, and then the same figs to different tunes. No, the familiar title tune probalby helps us remember the dance as a whole, but it does not "tell our feet where to go". Well, we all generalize, don't we? Yours, Martin, Grenoble, France. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 11:01:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 14:00:21 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>we'd probably dance a three couple set >>dance 2 or 3 times through the dance, which is 6 or 9 times through the >>music. We dance a longways dance about 12-14 times here-- maybe a bit >>longer for the triple minors. (...) >> if your tradition was to dance each dance 20-24 times (...) > >Really ? !!! >You do that many repetitions? I wouldn't have thought it possible. >(no criticism or anything implied, just surprise) In Boston we alternate set dances with longways. Normally we'll either do the set dance twice without a break, or, if there was mayhem on the floor in one set or another, we'll do the dance twice with a break. Or once, recoup, then twice without a break. This comes to 9 times through for the band. They never seem to be finished with the tune by then, thank goodness. Longways duples run, on the average 9-13 times, triples 10 to 16 times, depending on how much standing around there is for the 2 and 3 cpls. And how much time is left before the intermission or the end of the dance. The band seems to hardly ever be out of ideas, although they get tired by the end of the evening. > >With French folk dancing, each dance has its own tune, and I find it very >dull when the thing goes on and on and on. I've never noticed much >variation from one moment to another. >Scottish country dance bands usually play a tune for 64 bars only, which >implies 4 different tunes for a typical length (8 x 32 bar) dance. With >slow strathspey music, there is often a change of tune every 32 bars. I >enjoy this variety and listen for the changes and the new tunes -- each >band has its own selection. i feel this is one of the attractions of SCD. >The idea of doing a dance more than 8 times through ... no, there are so >many interesting dances waiting to be done, I feel satisfied with 8 times >through, and am ready to move on to the next dance on the program. Wow. I'm no Scottie, but I've done some dances at mixed parties that I'd like another chance. There are some neat figures there, and it would be fun to get the chance to clean them up and figure out the interaction opportunities. On the other hand, the tunes are generally harmonically very narrow, and often melodically not real interesting either, IMHO. Like contra dance tunes. But when you think about what the good Irish and Scottish bands, like Silly Wizard and Altan and Patrick Street do with the repertoire, it's obvious that the tunes have lots of promise, or many of them do. I wonder what SCD would feel like played by a band like The Wiz kids. :-) > >My feeling about the one dance-one tune question: Scots dancers, too, say >it's the music that tells you what to do. I say this is rubbish, in that >the figure you do to part A (for example, with some setting) may be quite >different from the one you do when A is repeated (with maybe some flowing >movement). Ditto for part B, as well as for subsequent tunes that are >played. In other words, we do both different figs to the same tune, and >then the same figs to different tunes. >No, the familiar title tune probalby helps us remember the dance as a >whole, but it does not "tell our feet where to go". My experience is a bit different for ECD. Imagine doing anything but Fandango to the Fandango melody. Last Wednesday Jacqueline called Up With Aily to its original tune, a slip jig. What a scurry about. Maybe it wasn't played at that tempo back then? I don't know about it, but it was very sad, to do a dance with such interactive possibilities in such a hurry. Linking the tune to the dance certainly makes it easier for us to be prompted by the tune. If you have change tunes, you weaken that connection. That's why most contra dancers don't know the names of the tunes or the dances. There's no connection at all, except in the energy level. And that brings me to the 3/4-3/2 matter. Last Wednesday we did 12 dances. 4 more accessible, 4 more experienced and 4 "requests". There was the usual alternation of longways and set. 6 of the dances were in three-beats-to-the-bar. Two of them were in the first hour. One was a waltz, one a slip jig, one was that waltz/minuet cross which seems to be the norm now, the rest were realy 3/2 dances. Are we unusual? > Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 12:09:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 15:09:40 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702082009.PAA09330-AT- mail1.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Emily Ferguson wrote: >Imagine doing anything but >Fandango to the Fandango melody. Those of us who were lucky enough to be at the '96 Pleasures of Providence ball [gorgeous music, fantastic sound, nice folks] don't have to use our imaginations: in the evening, Gene Murrow commented that it was possible to dance Prince William to Fandango, and of course some sets did just that. Mind-bending. >Last Wednesday Jacqueline called Up With >Aily to its original tune, a slip jig. What a scurry about. Maybe it >wasn't played at that tempo back then? I don't know about it, but it was >very sad, to do a dance with such interactive possibilities in such a >hurry. Emily, having danced Up With Aily to the slip jig, I have to report I had a very different reaction. Sure, it wasn't the Up With Aily we know in our bones. But danced lightly and springily, without the extra turns for the 2s and with a real SURGE as the line of three advanced--why, it was great fun. Think of it as a case of two different dances using the same figures--just as Ore Boggy and Take a Dance are two distinctive dances that use the same figures. I having two simple dances with such different flavors: after all, some days I like my stir fry Cantonese style, other days, Szechuan or Hunan. Yours for occasional pepper in the pot-- Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 08 Feb 1997 23:04:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 08:02:25 +0100 From: Martin Kiff Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: .. Ceilidh Pages. To: ecd-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 You might try http://www.ftech.co.uk/~webfeet/eceilidh/index.html as a lead in to the webfeet English Ceilidh pages... I think a lot of the life in English Ceilidh comes from the wide variation in music styles - the dances (at least in the south of England Ceilidhs) are relatively simple but the interest comes from the many different ways of doing them. I can imagine a weekly Ceilidh Club fizzling out as they probably couldn't bring in a variety of live bands, while the successful monthly dance series, like the M27 Megabops, do... As for other bands/CD's to recommend, I've found All Blacked Up's CD 'Say I am Dancing' to give a very nice snapshot of the English Ceilidh style. Gas Mark V (Guizers) was a favourite of mine, who had a marked jazzy touch, and Cock and Bull (The Cock and Bull Story) is another for their Anglo-French flavour. -- Martin Kiff, mgk-AT- webfeet.co.uk ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 10:21:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:20:20 -0500 (EST) From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Matt Harding's Dragon To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209182020_74031.77_BHT109-2-AT- CompuServe.COM> Matt Harding died of 'complications of diabetes'.... Because he belonged to my circle of dancing friends for more than 25 years, I feel compelled to share with you information about the disease that killed him. Being a recently diagnosed Type II diabetic myself, I have learned a lot in the past three years. But it takes ALL of us to understand and ACT, if we don't want to lose more lives to the disease. WE NEED A CURE FOR DIABETES! 1) Diabetes. What is generally called 'diabetes' is really a collection of about 27 different diseases which have a malfunction of pancreatic hormones at their root. Roughly, Type I (insulin-dependent,juvenile, but it can happen anytime) diabetes is caused by the cessation of the pancreas to produce insulin at all. The body's glucose-breakdown must be taken over by external insulin. Insulin can ONLY be administered by injections. Type IIs (adult onset) generally produce their own insulin - but either not enough, or so much too much that their body has created a rejection mechanism which renders the indigenous insulin useless. That 'type' can be treated with oral medication and/or exogenous insulin shots. It is even possible for some to control - not cure - Type II diabetes with weight control, exercise and diet. The enemy is NOT sugar, but rather fat. There MAY be genetic predisposition for the disease. It is more likely for diabetes to cause obesity than the other way around... Becoming a diabetic is not anyone's fault. 2) Implications for the Affected. Just because diabetes can be controlled with medication, one cannot EVER forget one's affliction with it! There are NO symptoms until considerable damage has occurred. Blindness, malfunctioning of kidneys, strokes (and paralysis...), heart failure, loss of sensation and/or function and mobility, hypoglycemia and trauma caused by hypoglycemia are the 'rewards' for not taking care. And roughly half of all diabetics have not been diagnosed. Many deaths are listed as a result of the above conditions, when in reality they are attributable to diabetes. To control, one must monitor one's blood sugar several times a day (pricking a finger for a drop of blood, letting a glucometer read it) and fine-tune oral medication and/or insulin shots. No vacation from that, EVER. 3) Prospects for a Cure. Since the the invention of insulin therapy (I believe 75 years ago) most Type Is can be kept alive and leading productive lives. There is a plethora of oral medications and different insulins - so diabetes is manageable. A cure would deprive the medical profession and several pharmaceutical companies of their most valuable cash cow. So there is no real incentive for them to fund research for a cure. The disease is silent, manageable - it has not generated the public's interest or outrage in the same way as AIDS or breast cancer. The ADA (American Diabetes Association) gives lip service and ca. 15 % of their funds toward a search for a cure. The JDF (Juvenile Diabetes Foundation) gives a much higher percentage of their money toward research for a cure. Funding of research in general: diabetes rates at 14 % of the funding level for cancer and at 23 % of the funding level for AIDS/HIV. 4) Some Statistics. The direct cost of diabetes in the US, according to the NIH, for the year 1995 were 91.1 billion $. The total cost of diabetes were 137.7 billions. That's more than TWICE the cost of cancer and AIDS/HIV combined. There are more deaths attributable to diabetes per year than attributable to AIDS in ten years. Diabetes is the 7th leading cause of death. There were more diabetes-related amputations last year than in the entire Vietnam war. There are 8 million diagnosed diabetics in the US, and at least as many undiagnosed. ---------------- It is no comfort to me to know that, unless lightning or a truck strike me first, I will die of diabetes! I'm doing my level best to beat the dragon. Matt was slain by it. My heart goes out to Barbara and her family, because diabetes involves the family as much as the afflicted. And all of you fellow dancers - please read the above carefully, learn more about the disease if it curses your family or friends, have your blood sugar tested at your next doctor's visit, and do what you can to help find a cure! Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:02:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:58:35 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209125835.cac0-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> There is at least one recording of "Hole in the Wall" as the hornpipe from the dance suite Purcell wrote to go with an Othello-type play called, I think, something like "Abdelard or the Moor's Revenge." I'm sure the spelling of the first word is a bit off base so I apologize. There is also a recording of that same piece as Purcell used it in his keyboard (Harpsichord in this case, Cristofori didn't do his thing until the early 18th century) works. Have fun chasing this down. It's worth the effort! Forbes ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:18:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:14:31 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209131431.cac0-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> 2/9/97 To Vicky Bestock: Thank you for your lengthy thoughtful reply to my posting re boredom, Cecil Sharp, etc. Please permit two or three highly personal, subjective, and not-always-backed-by-scholarship remarks. First, I have, indeed, read, digested, and critiqued Keller's book "If the Company Can Do It." Even sent a fairly extensive critique to the author. I find the book wanting. Consider the title very carefully and you will note that not everyone did fancy stepping all the time, nor did they always try to do so. Second, my main dancing opportunity for ECD is at the Berea Christmas School which I have attended for twenty-five consecutive years (24 on the staff). In the evening dance party, where I play or dance as required, we do one or two long-ways ECDs a night. Eighteen to twenty times through "Haste to the Wedding" leaves something to be desired. The musicians do exceedingly well, but, from the "middle of the battle," we begin to flag about the fourteenth time through. Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:23:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:20:11 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209132011.cac0-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Years ago I sat in with Barry (Berry?) Lewis from England. We were playing for a contra, I think. He pulled out a sheet of music with five or six tunes on it. We started at the top, played each tune once down to the bottom of the sheet, then did the same thing coming back up the sheet, finishing with the first tune. An interesting, challenging experience. Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 11:27:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 13:23:13 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Matt Harding's Dragon To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209132313.cac0-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> I think his name was Ruben (or Reuben) Mart(t?) Harding. jmf ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 14:13:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 22:13:21 +0000 From: Mitchell Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: "'ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" Message-ID: <01BC16D6.C075F6A0-AT- hmitchell.tcp.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC16D6.C0E3D3A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC16D6.C0E3D3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gene Murrow asked: So how do we get a copy of a complete description of this stepping?? Of course all this is conjecture based on extrapolating current practice backwards, but it sure is tempting... as Julia and Kitty Keller have = told us, we just don't know WHAT they did back then. I spoke to Wilf Darlington and got his permission to post the following = article. It was published in a local (Manchester) folk magazine last year and = refers to an event at a local dance club. I was one of the musicians who = played for the event. The original article had musical notation with = stepping underneath which I've replaced with text only and the tunes = have been translated into abc format. Howard Mitchell The Red Lion Hornpipe I introduced a hornpipe at a Northwest Dance Evening hosted by the Hawk = Green Club in April 1994. My reasons were not to add another dance to = the repertory but to construct a vehicle for some hornpipe steps that I = wished to try out. A number of people said that they liked the dance as = a whole and suggested that I bring it before a wider public. A Brief History The triple time hornpipe called, amongst other names, the Lancashire or = Cheshire Double Hornpipe was danced from the early seventeenth to the = beginning of the nineteenth century. The duple time hornpipe, introduced = in the middle of the eighteenth, rather took over from the older form = during the nineteenth century. In its heyday it was danced as a longways = duple or triple minor. The Dance=20 The dance is given here in three forms. I have based the dance on the = Red Lion Hompipe published in Thomas Wilson's Companion to the Ballroom. = _________________________________________________________________ Longways duple minor=20 Al Hands 3, ladies side (1st gentleman and 1st and 2nd ladies circle left = and right). A2 Hands 3 gentlemen side (1st lady and 1st and 2nd gentleman circle left = and right). B1 1st lady step to 2nd gentleman, right elbow swing once round.=20 B2 1st gentleman step to 2nd lady, right elbow swing once round=20 Cl Right and left or circular hey. C2 1st couple and 2nd couple change places by half pousette (progression). _____________________________________________________________________ Longways triple minor Al Hands 3 ladies side (1st gentleman and 1st and 2nd ladies circle left = and right). A2 Hands 3 gentlemen side (1st lady and 1st and 2nd gentlemen circle left = and right). B1 1st lady and 2nd gentleman right elbow swing then left elbow swing. B2 1st gentleman and 2nd lady right elbow swing then left elbow swing. C1 Double cast. C2 1st couple and second couple change places by half pousette = (progression). ________________________________________________________________ Longways three couple whole set Al Hands 3 ladies side (1st Gentleman and 1st and 2nd ladies circle left = and right). A2 Hands 3 gentlemen side (1st lady and 1st and 2nd gentlemen circle left = and right). B1 1st lady and 2nd gentleman right elbow swing then left elbow swing. B2 1st gentleman and 2nd lady right elbow swing then left elbow swing. Cl Double cast. C2 1st couple lead down and fall in between 2nd and 3rd couples. 3rd couple = lead up and fall in between 2nd and 1st couple. (1st couple has thereby = progressed to the bottom of the set). The Figures Because this hornpipe was put together as a test bed, I included a = number of figures that I hoped would prove the general usefulness of the = steps. The figures printed here are slight modifications of those first = introduced at Hawk Green. There is a figure for each of the following; = stepping on the spot, circling, swinging and travelling. The Music I have chosen two tunes. One is the tune generally known under the same = title as the dance, the Red Lion Hornpipe. The other is John Offord's = name for the Rowling Horpipe that he published in John of the Greeny = Cheshire Way under the title the Oldham Rowling Hompipe. Both tunes have = a definite emphasis (on the pairs of crotchets in each bar) which = coincides with a change of weight in the step that I specify. The Steps No-one seems to know exactly how the triple time hornpipe was stepped. = There have been lots of suggestions. John Offord gives a number of = interesting possibilities of 3/2 hornpipe steps in his book John of the = Greeny Cheshire Way. (Key: S=3DStep, H=3DHop, R=3DRight Foot, L=3DLeft Foot) a) for the six crotchets in each bar SL, HL, SR, HR, SL,HL b) for the twelve crotchets in each two bars SL, HL, SR, SL,SR, SL, SR,HR, SL, SR, SL, SR c) for the twelve crotchets in each two bars SL, SR, SL,SR, SL, HL, SR, SL, SR, SL, SR, HR It will be seen that option a) is basically the step hop on alternate = feet, the result of which is that each alternate bar begins with a = different foot. Options b) and c) are similar in this respect and also = cause the dancer to change weight frequently. But increasingly recently = I have been attracted to the notion that it may have been stepped as = follows. I do have some rather hazy evidence to support this idea. I = offer my own variant, possibly simpler in concept than these options. SL, HL,SR, HR, SL, SR This preserves the step hop, the integrity of the bar and a minimal = distance travelling step. The Olham Rowling Hornpipe and the Red Lion Hornpipe are shown here in = abc notation. 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Budnick wrote: > Matt Harding died of 'complications of diabetes'.... Because he belonged to my > circle of dancing friends for more than 25 years, I feel compelled to share with > you information about the disease that killed him. [much good information snipped out] > 3) Prospects for a Cure. > Since the the invention of insulin therapy (I believe 75 years ago) > most Type Is can be kept alive and leading productive lives. There > is a plethora of oral medications and different insulins - so > diabetes is manageable. A cure would deprive the medical profession > and several pharmaceutical companies of their most valuable cash cow. > So there is no real incentive for them to fund research for a cure. Hanny, these last two sentences sound like they came from a different person. The first of them may or may not be true -- I have no idea what the biggest "cash cow" is for the pharmaceutical companies and the medical profession, but I cannot accept your implication that this "cash cow" could possible be the only real incentive for finding real cures for the various forms of diabetes. Do you believe that all doctors are immune to diabetes? That their families and friends and fellow workers are? That there are no doctors or medical research people that are the least bit altruistic? It is popular to bash things like the medical profession, and I'm sure that some outrage is appropriate at the worst examples of what it is capable of doing and not doing. If the direction of medical research is dominated by economic factors in a country where the supposedly free play of those factors is allowed to decide where the available money goes, please do not blame the research people, who have to spend a significant amount of their work time trying to get funds to carry out their work, when they would, to a person, be much happier to be working on their research problems -- they really *do* want to find solutions to these problems. I expect that you would be insulted were I to suggest that the only incentive that you would find to work on such problems would be to get a piece of the "cash cow" for yourself. I believe that there are many _real_ reasons for working to find cures for diabetes that have nothing to do with monetary reward, and I believe that your statement is insulting not only to those working on cures for diabetes, but to all health care and medical research workers who hope that their efforts will help to relieve a bit of human suffering. I hope you will retract this statement. I feel that it does not belong in an otherwise noble plea for support for sufferers of diabetes. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 15:55:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 15:49:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Matt Harding's Dragon To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I second everything Eric Arnold said; diabetes isn't that big a cash cow anyway (insulin is pretty cheap, and so are disposable syringes). If you insist on looking at everything from a "what's in it for this guy?" perspective, keep in mind that whoever discovers a cure for diabetes will probably acquire large quantities of cash for *that*, and probably (if it's an individual or a small team) a Nobel Prize too. The only diseases that it doesn't pay to do research on are the ones only a few hundred people in the world have. And by the way, most of the medical research people I've met tend to have at least some altruism in their choice of profession. They could be making much, much more money in private practice. Peace. Paul (son of two folks who do research in preventive medicine: cardiology and high blood pressure) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 16:54:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:54:36 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "'ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I would doubt strongly the use of modern stepping for Hole in the Wall in the 17th century. Purcell was not a 'folk' composer, nor was Playford a 'folk' publisher. They both had strong ties to Whitehall, that is, the court of Charles II. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 16:54:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 19:54:36 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: "'ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.Stanford.EDU'" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I would doubt strongly the use of modern stepping for Hole in the Wall in the 17th century. Purcell was not a 'folk' composer, nor was Playford a 'folk' publisher. They both had strong ties to Whitehall, that is, the court of Charles II. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 03:55:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:55:06 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: REQUESTS To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN re: requests: emily sez: Last Wednesday we did 12 dances. 4 more accessible, 4 more experienced and requests". wow˙ requests. what a concept. does anybody else out there do requests on a regular dance night? how do you do it? how well does it work? are they done in a clump after the break, or what? really; inquiring minds want to know. sharon "soon to be English dance chair, the crazy woman" mckinley and not an official dance programmer for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:02:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:02:07 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: RE: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 09 Feb 1997 12:58:35 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970209125835.cac0-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> There is at least one recording of "Hole in the Wall" as the hornpipe from the dance suite Purcell wrote to go with an Othello-type play called, I think, something like "Abdelard or the Moor's Revenge." I'm sure the spelling of the first word is a bit off base so I apologize. There is also a recording of that same piece as Purcell used it in his keyboard (Harpsichord in this case, Cristofori didn't do his thing until the early 18th century) works. Have fun chasing this down. It's worth the effort! Forbes ------------------------------------------ THIS IS A REPLY TO THE ABOVE MESSAGE SUBJECT OF THE REPLY: RE: HOLE IN THE WALL-REPLY ------------------------------------------ re: Abdelazer (purcell's masterpiece with hole in the wall) that's the name (you were close). there's several recordings with it or selections from it floating around. the rondeau seems to have been especially popular. sharon "handy to have the data base at my fingertips" mckinley and not an official data base searcher for any governmnet agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 04:10:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 13:09:58 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <32FF1016.7D0E-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <970207083037.b428-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> John Forbes wrote: > I also remember a badly produced but well played record of HitW by what > must have been a Pinewoods group, but led by Phil Merril. The tempo was > considerably faster than what we use today. I have danced to it, and was > able to be 'comfortably upright' throughout, no feeling of falling over > or losing my balance. I am glad John mentions that. If I have to you use recorded music, I always use that 4p prm recording. I don't think it is too fast. It gives the dance a nice push without making it a rat race. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 06:00:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 09:00:20 -0500 (EST) From: GAFF-AT- neu.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: REQUESTS To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IF8U5K0KTI9AN90Q-AT- neu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Here is how the request period works in Boston. We have a white board with marking pens; dancers are encouraged to writedown requests during the evening. After the break which comes at the two hour point the evenings leaders look over the board and select the first couple of requests. If they don't like any of the dancers choices they can substitute their own, sometimes on the basis of where we are in the evening, wanting to reinforce a dance taught that evening or last week etc. The requests are talked through not walked through. As we do the first set of requests, the leaders decide what the next set will be until the evening is over. The request period is always the favorite part of the evening for me, offering a chance to polish the more difficult dances we did earlier, and to re-visit old friends, often introducing new dancers to them. It's fun to think of dances, that I want to do, that are such naturals for that particular evening that the leaders are bound to pick them. Even if a dance is too hard for the request period Helene Cornelius, our artistic director is pretty good about putting them into the regular program if there is continuing demand for them. Some of the dancers object to the talk through policy for requests. I found that it was a great incentive to see the underlying structure of the dance as a way of getting hold of the figures. When I first started dancing in Boston I would generally leave at the break; I was very proud of the first time I felt "grown up enough" to stay forthe whole dance. best, Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:36:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:35:57 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Stepping to Hole in the Wall To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702101036_MC2-1111-6CFA-AT- compuserve.com> Thanks, Howard, for the post of Wilf Darlington's article. Much food for thought (and feet!). I agree with Darlington's preference for his own SL, HL, SR, HR, SL, SR sequence of step-hops as it seems to fit the contour of the historical hornpipe the best. Option c) also isolates the the last two crochets(quarter notes) with a "mirror image" of this sequence, but the frequent changes of weight seems cumbersome. And while I do agree with Julia's cautionary note about appying "folk" elements to clearly non-folk compositions of an earlier age, one can gain some useful insights this way. One of the best examples is the breakthroughs in Medieval music performance practice gained by considering practices that survived in the folk tradition. The assuption was that the folk practices grew out of the "art music" of that earlier time. As soon as I heard Benjamin Bagby's group "Sequentia" for the first time I knew they were onto something using this approach. It was the first performance of Medieval music (some German minnesinger repertory) that sounded alive, real, and communicative. Recorder virtuoso Scott Reiss has provided similar insights with his "crossover" group Hesperus. Indeed, he often segues from a Medieval estampie directly into an Appalachian fiddle tune in a seamless performance that is uncanny. One just has to wonder... It's this rich vein I hope we can mine in our attempt to reconstruct what on Earth those idle noblemen and noblewomen were doing while the band played Hole in the Wall (yeah, I know, they were probably in the cloak closet snogging). Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 14:25:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:27:02 -0500 From: peggyl-AT- netdepot.com (Peggy Lamberson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: HOLE IN THE WALL To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702102230.RAA00739-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: I have a recording called _Purcell_Theatre_Music_Vol._1_ by the Academy of Ancient Music with Christopher Hogwood (L'Oiseau-Lyre DSLO 504) which includes the section from Abdelezar that we know as Hole in the Wall. On this recording, they just call it an "air" which may be the appelation on the original score, I don't know. The tempo is lively but not rushed. I find it very pleasing. This is a nice recording, if you want to check it out. Peggy ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:05:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:03:31 -0500 (EST) From: webatcheler-AT- juno.com (Wayne Batcheler) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Hole in the Wall To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970210.190423.6975.0.webatcheler-AT- juno.com> The "air" from Abdelezar may be called "Hole in the Wall" for a good reason. A book on old London pub names (which I neglected to steal some years ago from the former Irving Street Annex of the Kirkland Inn in Cambridge, MA--no further bibliographic information available) claimed that this was the place where Hank and his buds used to gather for suds. Wayne Batcheler -- webatcheler-AT- juno.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 17:33:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:31:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Matt Harding's Dragon To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970211013136_74031.77_BHT192-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> It seems that Eric read a lot more than I wrote . Let my try again: With all my heart I believe that researchers are not motivated by monetary rewards but rather by intellectual challenges and altruistic endeavors. Decisions about the subject of research, however, are usually made by corporate management with a very strong orientation toward profit. It is the FUNDING of research for a cure, or rather the lack of it, that is frustrating! And if you doubt the motivation of pharmaceutical companies, please check out the prices for their products, and the corporate profits. The 'cost' of diabetes to the health care system can hardly be measured by soandso many pills, vials of insulin and syringes. It must consider the training and services of general doctors, endocrinologists, the host of specialists who have to cope with complications, the diabetic educators, the emergency crew that deals with shock and/or coma, the lab equipment and personnel. And if half of all the afflicted people are not even diagnosed, the majority of the other half has not been trained to 'own' their disease and pursue its management aggressively and knowledgeably. Most general physicians, and I REALLY mean most, are not well trained to treat diabetes and its 27 or so variants! Once a diabetic walks through the door, the whole medical industry has just acquired another customer for life. Maybe not large amounts at any time, but do you remember the 50 cents/month you (or at least your parents) paid Ma Bell for 'wire maintenance' of a phone line? Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:04:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:18:19 -0800 (PST) From: bestockp-AT- oz.net Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To Forbes (This is how you sign your stuff-- is it a first or last name? Is this what you want us to call you?) I'm interested in your response to Kitty Keller. Could you elaborate on what you found wanting? And where you got your information? Kitty's book jives with what I've learned in reconstruction classes with Christine Helwig and others. As I remember, at some point someone imported some French or Italian dances (which would have had elaborate stepping) deliberately leaving out all the fancy footwork in order to make them more accessible, thus creating the beginnings of the tradition of simple steps we now have. I may be remembering this wrong. Perhaps others can help. Anybody have a name and date for the manuscript I'm talking about? I guess our traditions differ about how many times a dance is done. In Seattle contras are danced 20+ times with tune changes, but ECD longways are not danced quite as long, (12 repetitions is more normal) which helps make it more possible to dance a longways to the same tune all the way through. When my husband and I went to England a few years ago we found that dances were danced only about 6-8 times through. Dances were paired--two dances in the same formation-- so if you weren't active in one dance in those few rounds, you would be in the next. Here the challenge to the band was not improvising endlessly on the theme, but being familiar with (or being able to sightread through) a much vaster repertory, since many more different dances were done in an evening, and the evenings ran quite a bit longer than ours. I thought Haste to the Wedding was a Scottish tune. I've heard it used for Scottish and contra dances only. What ECD do you dance to it? Vicky >2/9/97 > >To Vicky Bestock: > >Thank you for your lengthy thoughtful reply to my posting re boredom, >Cecil Sharp, etc. Please permit two or three highly personal, subjective, >and not-always-backed-by-scholarship remarks. First, I have, indeed, read, >digested, and critiqued Keller's book "If the Company Can Do It." Even sent >a fairly extensive critique to the author. I find the book wanting. Consider >the title very carefully and you will note that not everyone did fancy >stepping all the time, nor did they always try to do so. Second, my main >dancing opportunity for ECD is at the Berea Christmas School which I have >attended for twenty-five consecutive years (24 on the staff). In the evening >dance party, where I play or dance as required, we do one or two long-ways >ECDs a night. Eighteen to twenty times through "Haste to the Wedding" leaves >something to be desired. The musicians do exceedingly well, but, from the >"middle of the battle," we begin to flag about the fourteenth time through. > >Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:55:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:55:37 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702110255.VAA13914-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 06:18 PM 2/10/97 -0800, Vicky Bestock wrote: >I thought Haste to the Wedding was a Scottish tune. I've heard it used for >Scottish and contra dances only. What ECD do you dance to it? Vicky > > Vicky: There's a modern ECD that Charles Bolton set to "Haste to the Wedding." It's a 3-couple circle mixer called "Love & Innocence" [in Bolton's Not...All My Own Work]. It fell apart royally the first time I tried teaching it, but I expect others may have had better luck. Love, Sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:07:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:07:08 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: RICH'S DANCE CLASS To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: rich's dance class as an impartial observer, i have to let the list know just how smashingly rich's evening with the dance class went. not one to pay tons of attention, i didn't realize they were showing up on MY monday night. uh-oh, we all thought. well, let me tell ya. they were 25 well-behaved, at least semi-coordinated young people, all of whom seemed to want to be there (it was apparently NOT a dance class you take to fulfill the P.E. requirement), and some of whom were actually dancers. they came early for the beginners class, where christopher field pounded a few basics into their heads, so rich didn't start out with a crowd that had never done a turn single. and when the dust settled just before the break, and they left, there were (gasp) still over 30 people on the floor. which is a very good crowd of regulars. so that helped, too, of course. rich patiently called a carefully selected bunch of relatively easy oldy moldies (holborn march, comical fellow, drapers garden, and knole park among them), and ran them to death, of course, which was the right thing to do. and talk about welcoming newcomers. the regulars had those kids up and moving all the time (their teacher was there, too, which also kept them up and moving), and i have rarely seen so many smiles on beginners' faces. it was great. imagine 55 people at the dance, all having a great time. i wish they'd come back, although i suspect most of them won't. oh, well. at least they've learned that it's fun, and sometime, somewhere, they'll join a group. what fun.... thanks again, rich (and christopher, in absentia) sharon "even MOI was smiling" mckinley and not an official regular for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:37:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:38:08 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: ORGANIZING THE DANCE To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: re: organizing dances: hmm, a little slow on the uptake here. having asked for input on request dances, i'd like to just take the plunge and tell you that i really WILL be the next ECD chair in baltimore. that's the organizational, find the callers and musicians job, but also affords a small opportunity to steer a few things at the dance. i'm not fond of gimmicks (in particular theme nights), which the current chair enjoys, but her enthusiasm for keeping the dance interesting is infectious. so now's the time to start collecting ideas (i haven't been nominated yet. feel free to volunteer, anyone), so i can work with our wonderful caller pool on programming. callers, organizers, and anyone with ideas or experiences to share are eagerly invited to send me neat info. either privately, at mckinley-AT- mail.loc.gov, or to the whole list. folks might find your postings interesting. thanking you in advance for doing my work for me, sharon "the sponge" mckinley, and not an official dance organizer for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:37:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:33:54 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: OLD TUNES, NEW DANCES To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Message-ID: <970211083354.d1c6-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Vicky: Re: Keller book, any information along that line should come from her. I sent remarks to her (and her alone!) and don't feel it is in my place to share. "Haste to the Wedding" may be a Scottish tune (sometimes such a designation per country is a bit murky) but it is used, at least at Berea, as a very easy dance resembling, except for the energy dispersed, an early American CD. I vividly remember 1st man down the outside/1st woman down the inside 1st woman down outside her line, man down the middle (and back, in both cases) but it gets a little fuzzy after that. I would politely classify it as a dance with minimum aesthetic return. And that's only my opinion, I do not wish to dictate same to anyone else. If you are a CDSS member, my name is listed in the recent directory, as is my 'private' e-mail address. When we first moved to Kansas in 1980 we were virtually the only CDSS members in the state. As the latest directory shows, we've got lots of company now! As for a 'miniature vita,' it's (Dr.) John M. Forbes, Ph.D. (Music History and Music Education, Michigan) Director of Libraries and Curator of the Quayle Rare Bible Collection, Baker University, Baldwin City, KS 66006 Thanks for your interest and happy dancin' :-)> ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:49:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 12:50:40 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE enticing contra dancers To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE enticing contra dancers to take a trip... Picking back up the dropped thread of what English dances to call at the contra, this may be after the fact (I don't remember when the experiment was going to take place), but after a very spirited local dance this past weekend I have to change my vote and say, go for "Trip to Paris." If that doesn't destroy forever the idea that English dancing is dull and prissy, ain't nothing going to do it. And contra dancers love to twirl and both men and women get to twirl in that. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:04:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:01:11 -0500 From: lois jackson Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702112201.RAA17415-AT- dns.city-net.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi - Just a quick reminder -- Bare Necessities will be in Pittsburgh, PA this weekend for a conta and English dance program. Please join us. Call 412-422-7265 for more info. Thanks. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 14:22:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 17:18:48 -0500 From: zorro-AT- netdepot.com (David Marcus) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 3/2 Dance/Music Forms 17th/18th Century? To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <199702112227.RAA03943-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hello, When is 3/2 dance music a hornpipe? When is it something else ... and what are the other forms? And an off-the-hole-in-the-wall related question: The Battlefield Band performs the Presbyterian Hornpipe on one of their early albums -- what is the origin of that tune and to what degree did 3/2 hornpipes find their way into popular music? many thanks in advance, david marcus / atlanta ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:38:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:35:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Heidenroeslein, no dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970212023558_74031.77_BHT30-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> I'm sorry that it took me so long to get back to this conversation - real life intervened.... Here's the third verse of the lyrics again: Und der wilde Knabe brach 's Roeslein auf der Heiden. Roeslein wehrte sich und stach, half ihm doch kein Weh und Ach, musst es eben leiden. Roeslein, Roeslein, Roeslein rot, Roeslein auf der Heiden. The second sentence has no ambiguity to a native speaker, sorry folks. The meaning is that the maid defended herself and pricked the guy, but that did not help HER at all, she nevertheless (= eben) had to suffer (tolerate). Roeslein, in the diminuitive, takes on neuter gender, and 'ihm' is the dative case of 'es'. I have tried, but have not found any more information about the role of the song during WWII. On rereading the song, everyone of my German contacts noted with surprise, that the song is usually in the 'love song' category.... Now about the satire: it's old, 1843, by Dreves. He is aiming at Goethe's lyrics, but here the victim is a suppressed book with politically revolutionary contents, and the boy is one of the many German dukes or barons. The story is about a book publisher in Hamburg (Campe, still existing) who was not at all upset when the books he printed were forbidden by the authorities - in fact he encouraged his authors to give him more controversial material, because he knew that that really sold well... Sah ein Fuerst ein Buechlein stehn, in des Ladens Ecken, nahm es rasch, es durchzusehn, las es auch vorm Schlafengehn, doch mit tausend Schrecken. Buechlein, Buechlein, Buechlein keck, aus des Ladens Ecken. Koenig sprach: ich unterdrueck's Buechlein aus dem Laden; Buechlein lachte; o des Glueck's! Dann liest man mich hinterruecks, und das bringt nie Schaden. Buechlein, Buechlein, Buechlein keck, Buechlein aus dem Laden. Und der gute Fuerst verbot 's Buechlein in dem Lande; Buechlein aber litt nicht Not, ging recht ab wie warmes Brot, ging von Hand zu Hande. Buechlein, Buechlein, Buechlein keck, Buechlein bleibt im Lande. Enjoy! Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 06:32:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:31:29 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Verbotenbuechlein To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks, Hanny, for the delightful and ever-relevant satire, and also for the reminder that "ihm" can be "her" in this context. It's hard enough for a native English speaker to think of a child as "it", and next to impossible to think of a young woman that way, and that does tend to interfere with the straightforward application of the rules of German grammar in situations like this. But is there no possibility for ambiguity aboout the meaning at all? The setting to such a beautiful little tune seems very incongruous otherwise. Eric Arnold ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:51:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:46:36 -0500 (EST) From: Margaret Whaley <101454.633-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dance pages in the Net To: ECD Message-ID: <970212164636_101454.633_IHP134-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> I've at last managed to put our Folk Dance Group Diary on the Net! So, if anyone is near enough to Oxfordshire to get to one of our dances - we'd love to see you the www address of the page is http:/www.mdwhaley.demon.co.uk/sfdg.htm happy dancing! Margaret Whaley Oxfordshire ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:50:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:49:50 -0500 From: gaff-AT- neu.edu (Terence Gaffney) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Another new web site To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" By coincidence, CDS Boston's web site is also opening this week. The URL is: http://www.math.neu.edu/~gaffney/cds.html Please send any suggestions you have for improving it to me, at Gaff-AT- neu.edu At this point we need links from other pages to ours. If you maintain a web site, please consider putting a pointer to our site. For your convenience, the html command is The Country Dance Society, Boston Centre I'd love to hear from other page maintainers what they're using they're sites for. Thanks, Terry Gaffney ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:31:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:27:29 -0500 (EST) From: "Hanny D. Budnick" <74031.77-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Verbotenbuechlein To: "BlindCopyReceiver:;"-AT- compuserve.com Message-ID: <970212222729_74031.77_BHT61-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> "The setting to such a beautiful little tune...." as I mentioned before, there are at least THREE intonations for the poem that I know of. Both, the Schubertian one (a Kunstlied), and the other, whose composer I never knew, are in even rhythm - only 'our' Werner one, adopted by Pat Shaw, is a waltz. All are sufficiently similar that they may well have a common ancestor (there are also Goethe and Herder versions of the poem which suggest common ancestry rather than simultaneous 'invention'). If I find out more, I'll let you all know. Hanny Budnick ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 14:39:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:42:11 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ORGANIZING THE DANCE To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sharon, Congratulations on getting into one of those spots where all the complaints and some of the praise will come your way! May it be a joyful creative experience for you nonetheless! I'm mostly dropping you a note to say that my wanderlust has kicked in again, and I'm thinking that it would be fun to do some out-of-town dances. I'm going to be in Prinecton NJ for the 1st Friday of June; if y'all have a Monday dance after that and need a caller, I would sure be interested in being there. (Or let me know if you have other openings.) Today's forecast: more snow, temperature tonight between 0 and 10 degrees. But the sun is shining and I got to sit in a cafe for an hour. Erna-Lynne P.S. My real e-mail address is ebogue-AT- umich.edu but I use this one to read mail lists. ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:47:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 06:47:06 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: RE: ORGANIZING THE DANCE To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: X-ListName: Discussion of modern and historical English Country Dance Warnings-To: <> Errors-To: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:42:11 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ORGANIZING THE DANCE To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sharon, Congratulations on getting into one of those spots where all the complaints and some of the praise will come your way! May it be a joyful creative experience for you nonetheless! I'm mostly dropping you a note to say that my wanderlust has kicked in again, and I'm thinking that it would be fun to do some out-of-town dances. I'm going to be in Prinecton NJ for the 1st Friday of June; if y'all have a Monday dance after that and need a caller, I would sure be interested in being there. (Or let me know if you have other openings.) Today's forecast: more snow, temperature tonight between 0 and 10 degrees. But the sun is shining and I got to sit in a cafe for an hour. Erna-Lynne P.S. My real e-mail address is ebogue-AT- umich.edu but I use this one to read mail lists. ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ THIS IS A REPLY TO THE ABOVE MESSAGE SUBJECT OF THE REPLY: RE: ORGANIZING THE DANCE-REPLY ------------------------------------------ erna-lynne: the good news is, we'd love to have you. the bad news is, i suspect my still-doing-the-job predecessor will probably book for june, since i don't take over til about then (let's get nominated and elected 1st, shall we?) anyway, i assume your address and such is in the cdss list, and i shall pass it on to susan. she doesn't have email, altho i'll offer to communicate for her. also to carl friedman, who i think is the american dance chair. ho-kay? see ya soon, i hope. sharon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 04:27:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:24:33 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Haste to the Wedding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <33030801.21D-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I believe it was Vicky who requested English country dances done to the tune of Haste to the wedding. Here is what I found in the NVS database: 1. In: Wrights' Humours, vol 2.: three-couple longways (aka Rural Felicity). 2. In: Country Dance Book, vol. 1: two traditonal dances collected by Cecil Sharp. 3. In: English Folk Dancing for the Primary School / edited by the Kennedys: a version from Herefordshire (40 bars I believe). 4. In: Five popular country dances / by A. Foster: Hereford version. 5. In: Community Dances Manual, vol. 7: Susses/Dorset version. I have fun memories of dancing "number one". Try it! Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:56:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:58:39 -0500 From: elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (E.L.Bogue) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: ORGANIZING THE DANCE To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Sharon, Good to hear from you. Thanks for passing the info along to your soon-to-be-predecessor (what a weird title!) See ya in the electrons... Erna-Lynne ----------------------------------------------- "Let us be what we are, and let us be it WELL." -- Francis deSales ----------------------------------------------- Erna-Lynne Bogue / elbogue-AT- ix.netcom.com (I read mail at ebogue-AT- umich.edu most often) ----------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 18:53:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 21:54:33 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (Fwd) Washington Spring English Country Ball To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702140257.VAA15081-AT- xis.com> Please excuse a little patent advertising. I'd be happy to forward the list of dances to anyone interested. Hospitality can be arranged for out-of-town guests. We'd love to have you! ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: "Roger W. Broseus, Ph.D." Dear friends, I am helping to promote the Washington Spring Ball and, to that end, I am distributing this announcement to several of my dancing friends. Thanks for giving this your time. Best regards, -- Roger Folklore Society of Greater Washington Annual Washington Spring Ball Saturday, May 17, 1997 at Whitby Gymnasium, National Cathedral School, Washington, D.C. English country dancing at its finest. Music will be provided by a stellar group: Earl Gaddis on violin and viola. Earl is a member of the world-renowned English country dance ensemble, Bare Necessities. Liz Donaldson, a popular and accomplished piano player who has long experience playing for English country dances as well as other styles of folk dance. Liz's accomplishments extend to teaching workshops for other, up-and-coming folk musicians in the DC area. Baltimore's Marty Taylor will be playing the flute and concertina. Marty is also well-known throughout the North East as an accomplished folk musician. Admission by prior reservation only. $20 for members of FSGW, BFMS or CDSS, $22 for nonmembers. Reception: 7:30 pm. Dance: 8:00 pm. Priority for acceptance will be given to FSGW members who apply by March 15, subject to space limitations; after that, a gender balance will be maintained. Dances will not be called so attendance of the FSGW's Wednesday evening English country dances is strongly encouraged: dances will be taught and practiced in the weeks preceding the ball. Callers will also be including ball dances in their programs at the BFMS English country dances on Monday evenings in Baltimore. A practice session will be conducted in the afternoon before the ball. Watch for fliers at local dances. For info contact Marian Lapp at 703-533-2966 or Roger Broseus via email: RogerB-AT- cais.com. Obtain a copy of the registration form suitable for downloading from Roger via email. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 14:54:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:50:32 -0500 From: Brad Foster Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NVS Database To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970214225032.0068abc0-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Philippe, What is the NVS database? Brad --------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Foster Country Dance and Song Society Executive and Artistic Director 17 New South St brad.foster-AT- cdss.org; office-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.cdss.org/ 413-584-9913; Fax: 413-585-8728 --------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:30:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:30:05 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Dances spotted in the A&E EMMA To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IFI1V28WI4BJWHNC-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- My, it's been quiet on the list the last few days. At any rate, this afternoon I watched the A&E/BBC telefilm of Austen's "Emma", with Kate Beckinsale in the title role. I thought it far superior to the recent theatrical version with Gwyneth Paltrow, and much more true to Austen in most ways, including Emma's character and her relationship with Knightley. They did choose to do it without recourse to Austen's exposition, so some choice stuff was lost, but you can't have everything. Very nice photography, settings, and excellent period clothes. The point of this post, however, is to enumerate the EC dances I identified. These were: Jack's Maggot (skip-change step in heys, walking step for stars) Kelsterne Gardens (similarly) Hole In The Wall (with an Orleans Baffled ending; that is, corners cross [Well Hall style] followed by three changes, I think with hands. An attempt by the choreographer to get the common late-18th century rights and lefts into the show somewhere? Tempo fairly slow, no hornpipe footwork.) Juice of Barley (Fast walking step throughout, usual figures, clapping included.) Mr. Isaac's Maggot (I recognized the music, but what we see of the dance is very different, and I didn't get it all down. It seems to be a triple minor, and begin with all turn partners two hands, open up for a ring of six all the way around, lines fall back, come forward, do something to get into lines of six, lead up, and that point they cut away and we never saw the progression. The "lines fall back" did come in the right part of the music, though.) I was unable to make out the choreography credit, since they shrunk the credits into a small box in the upper left portion of the screen and used the majority of the space to try to sell us a videotape of the production. Did anybody else out there see it? -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:50:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 23:49:39 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: "Sparkling & Still" - Final version To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IFI2NCB3EQBJWHNC-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- You may recollect the Waltz country Dance I recently posted to the list in draft form. Rich Galloway was kind enough to give me his feedback on it, and test out a revised version at his dances in the DC area. On Friday night, Valentine's Day, I called the revised version for a group that included the dedicatees, and it went pretty well. [Of course, some vintage dancers who had never country-danced before arrived at the dance and joined the set after I had started teaching (from within the set), which made it a little rockier than it might have been otherwise.] Here's the final version. If you use it, I'd still very much like to hear how it went. The only changes are in A 1-6. -- Alan ========================================================================== SPARKLING AND STILL A Waltz Country Dance by Alan Winston February, 1997 Music: Fanny Power (as given in Barnes 'A Little Couple Dance-Musik') Play AB 32-bar longways, duple minor improper (1s crossed over) A: 1-2: 1st couple turn by the right. 3-4: 1st couple cast to the ends of a line of four, ending W1 M2 W2 M1 5: Line balances back 6: Line leads up (three steps) 7-8: 1s gate 2s 3/4, ending in original positions 9-12: 2s continue moving and 1/2 figure eight up through 1s. 13-16: 1s 1/2 figure eight down through 2s, ending M1 W1 W2 M2 B: 1-4 Neighbors face, set, and change places turning single (as in 'Trip to Paris', except end facing partner) 5-8 Partners the same, except don't go all the way to partner's place; end close to partner ready to 9-16 Ballroom position: waltz counterclockwise once around the other couple to progressed place; then open up facing a new couple. ============================================================================= NOTES Timing is strict throughout. Experienced dancers should have no difficulty with it, but first-timers may well miss the gates or the half figure-eight transitions, and it's hard to recover from doing those late. It's worth demonstrating the "Trip To Paris" turns to make it clear that you end facing the next person, rather than end facing neighbor and turn back to partner. Dancers can turn 1.25 or 2.25 times as they please. The second turn might be more of a gypsy. Anyone who really wants to know what foot to do the turns on should be told to start on the right foot and take six steps; this will leave the right foot free for the next setting step. -- Alan PS: The title "Sparkling and Still" is in celebration of the engagement of two local dancers, Carol Ann Krug and David Graves. "Krug" is a champagne (or sparkling wine), "graves" a type of still wine. [More specifically, I think it's a varietal grape grown in the Medoc region of France, but I bet somebody else on this list knows more about that than I do.] For Carol Ann, a tune by O'Carolan seemed apropos. -- APW =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 12:21:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:23:45 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dances spotted in the A&E EMMA To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702172020.VAA28335-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston wrote about EC dances in the film of Jane Austen's "Emma". As a complete newcomer to the list I would like to ask if there was a similar posting about the dances in Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" and if so, could someone send me a copy (privately, if the matter has already been fully aired on the list)? I am organising a day of dance based on the dances in "Pride and Prejudice" on November 16th 1997 in Eindhoven, the Netherlands and want as much information as possible to supplement my own observations. Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 06:31:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:30:18 -0500 (EST) From: Benjamin Stein <102510.477-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE:A&E Emma To: English Message-ID: <970218143017_102510.477_HHM58-2-AT- CompuServe.COM> We to were very impressed with the A&E production of Emma. Except for the dance at the Nuptual scene at the end they were reasonably in accord with the "tradition" and beautifully presented. Our impression of the last dance was that it was choreographed to provide a suitable climax to the scene rather than attempting to be an authentic English Country Dance. The music obviously was for Mr. Issac"s Maggot but the dance appeared to be a blend of common figures (the two hand turns and the circle of six) followed by an adaptation of the first figure of Step Stately. All-in-all rather nicely done with much better dance sequences than we are accustomed to seeing in period pieces. Ben Stein 102510.477-AT- Compuserve ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:06:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 13:06:38 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: NVS Database To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <330AECCE.4CD-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <2.2.32.19970214225032.0068abc0-AT- crocker.com> Brad Foster asked about the NVS database: The NVS (Nederlandse Volksdans Stichting) Archives (which is more of a library) holds a fair number of mostly books on country dancing. Over the year, Ruud Wilders, the archivist, has put the names of the dances, mentioned in those books, in a database. That is available on floppy or as hard copy. For example, you can look up in which books you can find "Step Stately". There is some additional information, too, like length of the dance and formation, I believe. I find it a very useful tool. It should really be wonderful if that database could appear on the Internet. Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 04:44:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 07:43:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dianne E Sears Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: ECD Digest V1 #161, A&E Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702191243.HAA25161-AT- asimov.oit.umass.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those who missed it, A&E will be showing "Emma" again on Friday, Feb. 21, at 9 pm EST. - Dianne Sears dsears-AT- frital.umass.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 15:46:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 18:42:55 -0500 From: zorro-AT- netdepot.com (David Marcus) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Who knows about dance music? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702192351.SAA09792-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted the following message about 17th/18th c dance music to the list about a week ago and got no replies--can anyone suggest a source this information?? > When is 3/2 dance music a hornpipe? > When is it something else ... and what are the other forms? > > And an off-the-hole-in-the-wall related question: The Battlefield Band > performs the Presbyterian Hornpipe on one of their early albums -- what > is the origin of that tune and to what degree did 3/2 hornpipes find > their way into popular music? > > many thanks in advance, tks david marcus / atlanta ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 10:32:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 12:33:11 -0600 From: Mike or Norma Briggs Subject: set nomail To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <330C98E7.9D2-AT- execpc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <970218143017_102510.477_HHM58-2-AT- CompuServe.COM> ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 06:35:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 15:38:18 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NY Times Feature on ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702221434.PAA23006-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I hear the New York Times is running a feature on English Country Dance in their edition of Friday March 7th. Is there anyone in the New York area who would be kind enough to mail me the relevant pages? I know a lot of people in The Netherlands and Belgium would be very interested to read them and I will ensure they get passed around. My address is: Antony Heywood Rietstraat 15 5662 RA Geldrop The Netherlands Please confirm by e-mail so that I can try to make other arrangements if this fails. Is there anything I can do for you in return? Antony Heywood Volksdansvereniging NVS (The Dutch Folk Dance Society specialising in dances from Great Britain and North America) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:12:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:11:54 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NY Times Feature on ECD To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702221611.LAA25600-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:38 PM 2/22/97 +0000, Antony Heywood wrote: >I hear the New York Times is running a feature on English Country >Dance in their edition of Friday March 7th. Is there anyone in the >New York area who would be kind enough to mail me the relevant pages? >I know a lot of people in The Netherlands and Belgium would be very >interested to read them and I will ensure they get passed around. > Dear Antony: The March 7th article in the Times [if it actually makes it into print] won't be a major one, but it will be friendly. It's written by Linda Wolfe, who, when she's not country dancing here in New York, writes articles for New York Magazine and other periodicals, as well as the occasional non-fiction book. The Times wanted the article to have as its focus an actual event that its readers might like to attend, so Linda is featuring our March 7th Jane Austen dance, led by Beverly Francis [who has done much research on Austen's ties to country dancing]. I'll be happy send a copy of the article to you. Please greet our friends from the Christmas course, and give my thanks again to all those who sent cards and letters to Fried on her birthday. She still talks about the birthday surprise and how much it meant to her. Thank you for organizing the Dutch end of the enterprise. Love, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:21:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:21:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Priscilla M. Burrage" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Dancing San Francisco area, March 12 - 19, 1997 To: ECD , strathspey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Apologies to all to whom this does not apply. What are possibilities for English or Scottish country dancing in the San Francisco area in two weeks: March 12 - 19? thanks in advance, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Priscilla Burrage (priscilla.burrage-AT- uvm.edu) Vermont USA (pburrage-AT- zoo.uvm.edu) Please note my new "zoo" address and change your files from the old "moose" address. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:44:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:45:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Kimberly R. Gilbert" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing San Francisco area, March 12 - 19, 1997 To: ECD CC: strathspey Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'll also be in the area around that time and would be interested in knowing the dance possibilities there. Kimberly Gilbert "This is terrible news! Do you actually SCA: Anne Fenton intend to kill your enemies? Can't you kgilbert-AT- bluemarble.net just speak sternly to them?" On Sun, 23 Feb 1997, Priscilla M. Burrage wrote: > What are possibilities for English or Scottish country dancing in the San > Francisco area in two weeks: March 12 - 19? > thanks in advance, ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 13:00:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 15:56:00 -0500 From: Brad Foster Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Dancing San Francisco area, March 12 - 19, 1997 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970223205600.00691cfc-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:21 PM 2/23/97 -0500, you wrote: >What are possibilities for English or Scottish country dancing in the San >Francisco area in two weeks: March 12 - 19? For English, you can check out the BACDS webpage calendar at http://www.well.com/user/cwj/bacds/calendars/7mar.html Brad --------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Foster Country Dance and Song Society Executive and Artistic Director 17 New South St brad.foster-AT- cdss.org; office-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 http://www.cdss.org/ 413-584-9913; Fax: 413-585-8728 --------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 07:03:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 11:33:54 -0330 From: mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Martin E. Mulligan) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Questions about English Country Dances and Dancing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: Bruce Shawyer Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello, A small group here in St. John's, Newfoundland, have started getting together to try some English Country Dancing. Although, I did a small amount of English in the past -- that was 15 years ago and I've discovered that my memory doesn't quite extend back for enough to remember details. So, I have some questions about some basic points of style and about some of the dances that we have been trying. If anyone on this list could offer some advice or specific pointers, I'd appreciate it. First, are there any general rules for what type of step to use? When is a walking step used? When is a skipping step used? When is a skip change of step used? With respect to the walking step, should the weight be on the ball of the foot or does one lead with a heel or does it depend? Now some questions about specific dances that we have tried. What step is used in "The Geud Man of Ballangigh"? Is it walking throughout? How are hands held in the circle? What step is used in "Jack's Maggot"? In "The Fair Quaker of Deal", after the turn single, do the dancers stop and face partners or do they flow straight into the casts? How do the non-dancing people move up or down? How does one get into the back-to-back, stay there, set, and then move without any discomfort? Do 2nd couple wait until bars 7-8 of B2 before they change places (it seems to me that they have to but I'd like confirmation). What step is used for the different figures in "Juice of Barley"? We have been using "The Playford Ball" by Keller and Shimer as our basic source of dances. My question here: are the music tempos indicated in this book reliable? Our musician, Bruce Shawyer, has heard different tunes (not necessarily the ones above) played at different tempos. This makes it hard for us to know which is "correct" and to figure out what steps we should use accordingly. Finally, if you've managed to get this far and can handle any more questions, the following are dances that are on our list to try in the near future. Are there any things that we should know about any of these dances ahead of time so that we can dance them successfully first time? Dick's Maggot; Greensleeves and Yellow Lace; Grimstock; Hambleton's Round O, Hunsdon House, The Maid Peeped Out The Window; Mr Cosgill's Delight, Picking Up Sticks; and, Well Hall. Thanks in advance for your help. Martin Mulligan mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca ========================================================================= Dr. Martin E. Mulligan mulligan-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca Department of Biochemistry phone (709) 737-7978 Memorial University of Newfoundland fax (709) 737-2422 St. John's, Newfoundland, CANADA A1B 3X9 ========================================================================= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 08:30:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 10:30:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Questions about English Country Dances and Dancing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: bshawyer-AT- math.mun.ca Message-ID: <199702241630.KAA27174-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> I'll let other, wiser, heads answer your questions on the steps for the various dances. Our group tends to go with a smooth walking step, with the weight slightly forward, except when skipping is indicated in the dance instructions. As far as the tempos (tempii?) in Keller and Shimer, we have found them to be very danceable. While variations are certainly possible, these are a good place to start when trying to set the tempo for a given dance. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier |Q: How many angels can dance on the | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | head of a pin? | | Flight Simulation Lab |A: It depends on what dance you call. | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:35:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:38:32 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702241734.SAA26065-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:11:54 -0500 (EST), Sharon Green wrote > The March 7th article in the Times [if it actually makes it into print] > won't be a major one, but it will be friendly. It's written by Linda Wolfe, > who, when she's not country dancing here in New York, writes articles for > New York Magazine and other periodicals, as well as the occasional > non-fiction book. The Times wanted the article to have as its focus an > actual event that its readers might like to attend, so Linda is featuring > our March 7th Jane Austen dance, led by Beverly Francis [who has done much > research on Austen's ties to country dancing]. What a coincidence: the Dutch Folk Dance Society is holding a Pride and Prejudice dance with English afternoon tea in Eindhoven on Sunday 16th November. Details still have to be worked out and if anyone is interested, I'll post details to the list as soon as they are known. Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 09:43:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:43:08 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Questions about English Country Dances and Dancing To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702241743.MAA27708-AT- panix4.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:33 AM 2/24/97 -0330, Martin Mulligan wrote: >So, I have some questions about some basic points of style and about >some of the dances that we have been trying. If anyone on this list >could offer some advice or specific pointers, I'd appreciate it. Dear Martin, You are going to get SO many responses, and in all likelihood no two of them will agree. I foresee much amusement, and, I hope, some enlightenment. Thank you for raising the questions, and good luck with your dance. Any idiocies in the comments that follow should reflect only on me and not on anyone who has ever taught at Country Dance * New York. >First, are there any general rules for what type of step to use? >When is a walking step used? When is a skipping step used? When is >a skip change of step used? I don't think there's any general rule; regional variations certainly abound. In New York, for example, we skip the hands-across figure in "Jack's Maggot." When I was in England, however, I noticed people skip-changing the heys and walking the hands-across. When the music's in triple time and the dance requires you to cover much ground, you'd skip rather than skip change. >With respect to the walking step, should the weight be on the ball of >the foot or does one lead with a heel or does it depend? There's a very balanced, dancer-friendly booklet called "Elements of English Country Dance" put out by The Round [the Cambridge University group, UK--available through the CDSS Book Store, though I think chunks of it are available on the Round's Website] that discusses this and other questions. "Basically your weight should be on your toes rather than your heels." Lead with your heart, not with your heel--but don't worry about it if sometimes your heel gets there first. >Now some questions about specific dances that we have tried. > >What step is used in "The Geud Man of Ballangigh"? Is it walking >throughout? How are hands held in the circle? We've danced it walking throughout. In the circle, we keep our arms in a V-shape [elbows down], but seldom follow any rules about taking hands. [If a man stands between two women, he usually holds out his hands palm up to support the women's hands; however, when two men (or two women) are standing together, the handhold is usually up for grabs.] >What step is used in "Jack's Maggot"? See note above. >In "The Fair Quaker of Deal", after the turn single, do the dancers >stop and face partners or do they flow straight into the casts? We tend to flow into the casts [after a fleeting glance at the other person casting]. >How do the non-dancing people move up or down? Pulling left shoulder back, I turn into my progressed position. >How does one get into the back-to-back, stay there, set, and then move without any discomfort? GOOD question. I dance forward and, pulling my right shoulder back, I turn my back on my corner. I then reach out with my right hand for the hand of the person on my right, trusting that the person to my left will find my left hand. Some teachers recommend taking an arms-bent position; that can be rough on folks with shoulder problems. Other teachers suggest keeping arms down; that's awkward when you're 5'0" standing beside someone 6'6". Mostly the dancers cope. >Do 2nd couple wait until bars 7-8 of B2 before they change places (it >seems to me that they have to but I'd like confirmation). Yes, please. >What step is used for the different figures in "Juice of Barley"? I'm accustomed to walking step throughout. >We have been using "The Playford Ball" by Keller and Shimer as our >basic source of dances. My question here: are the music tempos >indicated in this book reliable? Our musician, Bruce Shawyer, has >heard different tunes (not necessarily the ones above) played at >different tempos. This makes it hard for us to know which is >"correct" and to figure out what steps we should use accordingly. "Correct" tempos depend on a lot of things--the age and physical vigor of your dancers, the temperature, the familiarity of the dancers with the dance. I'm sure Genny Shimer & Kitty Keller gave proper, danceable tempos for all the dances, but there's always a range of tempos that's acceptable for a given dance. If your dancers can't keep up with the dance at the tempo given, you'll just have to go slower for a while. [Or, in "Juice of Barley," just have the hands-four circle 1/2-way each time; that way you won't wind up with everyone out of position for the back-to-back.] Have fun with the dancing! You're doing something splendid for your people, and I hope you're having a great good time yourself. Cheers, Sharon Green ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 12:08:08 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:06:44 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Wolverton Hall To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII In the March/April CDSS News which I *just* received in the mail, a new interpretation of Wolverton Hall by Philippe Callens is presented. It is described as a duple improper longways dance. There appears to be a problem with the progression -- either the description as "improper" was incorrect, or the instructions omit something, it appears. At the end of the A2 section, the instructions parenthetically observe "all home", and that does not conflict with the instructions preceeding that point. Then B2 starts with "men lead through the women and cast back", which doesn't fit. However, the rest of the B section would leave everybody proper if they are proper at this point (or improper, if they were improper). So starting proper, or having 1st woman & 2nd man lead through first, each would fix it. What was intended? CDSS? Philippe? Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:26:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 14:18:31 -0800 From: EVANS Nan E Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: Antony Heywood (Return requested), "ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" (Return requested) Message-ID: <"073FB331213B700F*/c=us/admd= /prmd=or.gov/o=PRD/ou=MSMail/s=EVANS/g=Nan/i=E/"-AT- MHS> MIME-Version: 1.0 I would love to know about the program and why each of the dances were selected! Anybody? ---------- From: Antony Heywood To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance Date: Monday, February 24, 1997 10:17AM On Sat, 22 Feb 1997 11:11:54 -0500 (EST), Sharon Green wrote > The March 7th article in the Times [if it actually makes it into print] > won't be a major one, but it will be friendly. It's written by Linda Wolfe, > who, when she's not country dancing here in New York, writes articles for > New York Magazine and other periodicals, as well as the occasional > non-fiction book. The Times wanted the article to have as its focus an > actual event that its readers might like to attend, so Linda is featuring > our March 7th Jane Austen dance, led by Beverly Francis [who has done much > research on Austen's ties to country dancing]. What a coincidence: the Dutch Folk Dance Society is holding a Pride and Prejudice dance with English afternoon tea in Eindhoven on Sunday 16th November. Details still have to be worked out and if anyone is interested, I'll post details to the list as soon as they are known. Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 15:05:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 24 Feb 1997 18:05:20 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702242305.SAA23594-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hello again! My Bay Area ball program just came with variant* instructions for A1 (5-8) and A2 (5-8) of Fair Quaker of Deal. Instead of corners casting at those points, it's Ones casting [Twos moving up] and then Twos casting [Ones moving up]. That's the way it is in Kentish Hops AND in the facsimile from Walsh at the bottom of the page in The Playford Ball. I'd be interested in how the dance is done in your area. *variant, ADJ. Definition: not as described by Keller & Shimer. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 03:44:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 12:44:19 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Wolverton Hall To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <3312D093.5F2D-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Eric Arnold wrote about my interpretation of Wolverton Hall: To keep it simple. It is proper. I haven't seen the March/April issue yet of course. It takes a while before it reaches Europe. So I assume that everything else is all right. Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 04:33:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 07:30:59 -0500 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702251230.HAA06912-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> > From: Sharon Green > Subject: Fair Quaker of Deal > > My Bay Area ball program just came with variant* instructions for A1 (5-8) > and A2 (5-8) of Fair Quaker of Deal. Instead of corners casting at those > points, it's Ones casting [Twos moving up] and then Twos casting [Ones > moving up]. That's the way it is in Kentish Hops AND in the facsimile from > Walsh at the bottom of the page in The Playford Ball. I'd be interested in > how the dance is done in your area. > > *variant, ADJ. Definition: not as described by Keller & Shimer. > When I first learned FQ of D, in Boston (late 70s) we did it with the first corners setting and the first couple casting (2nd corner/couple repeat). Later, there was a movement to change that to the way it is described in the Keller/Shimer book. I remember this being referred to as the "New York" variation. I don't know whether this was a reinterpretation of the source, or just someone's idea of a better way to do the dance. I prefer the first way. I remember it as first dancing with your corner, and then picking up your partner and casting with her. I suppose the second way is better for the women. Just my not-so-humble opinion, Rich Jackson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:58:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:01:11 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702251757.SAA07465-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sharon Green wrote: > My Bay Area ball program just came with variant* instructions for A1 (5-8) > and A2 (5-8) of Fair Quaker of Deal. Instead of corners casting at those > points, it's Ones casting [Twos moving up] and then Twos casting [Ones > moving up]. That's the way it is in Kentish Hops AND in the facsimile from > Walsh at the bottom of the page in The Playford Ball. Couple casting is Pat Shaw's interpretation, corners casting is Thora Jacques (Watkins) interpretation Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 09:58:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:01:11 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702251757.SAA07455-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Nan EEvans wrote: > I would love to know about the program and why each of the dances were > selected! Anybody? The BBC book "The Making of Pride and Prejudice" has an excellent chapter on the dances which were chosen and taught by Jane Gibson who has in-depth knowledge of historical dance and is a teacher of movement at drama schools. ECD at the end of the eighteenth century (yes I know P&P was set in 1813) was mainly in triple minor longways sets and the Apted Book was used as a major source of material. Choreography was done to suit the dances to the actors especially for that crusial scene where Elizabeth and Darcy dance together for the first time. Mr Beveridge's Maggot with the adapted A-music figure enabled them to converse during the A music leaving the viewer during the B music anxiously waiting for the next A music to hear what they would say next. Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:12:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:11:38 -0500 From: Gene Murrow Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD list Message-ID: <199702251911_MC2-11B8-5074-AT- compuserve.com> Corners set but couples cast is original notation and "another look-ed" by Pat Shaw.. Corners set and corners cast is EFDSS/CDSS/Shimer/Keller published version, affectionately known among the musicians as "The Queer Faker of Deal" Dorky dance either way... IMHO. Dumb tune, too. Gene Murrow EC Dancer and fair dealer of quakes. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 16:13:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 19:16:13 -0500 From: Erna-Lynne Bogue Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <331380C5.E3D-AT- ix.netcom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702251230.HAA06912-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Ah, the joys of living in the middle of the country far from anywhere. I've always done the Fair Quaker as Sharon describes the "variant" and Rich Jackson describes the original way: the corners set, but the couples cast. Until this mail, I had never noticed that there was anything else in the Keller & Shimer book -- I wonder if they made this change when they went to the 2nd edition? I certainly like the intrigue of frivolling my time with one person, only to return faithfully to the one who asked me to dance. Erna-Lynne ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:47:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:47:03 -0500 (EST) From: BHFrancis-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: BHFrancis-AT- aol.com Message-ID: <970225203152_-1474247627-AT- emout01.mail.aol.com> Antony Heywood expressed interest in the New York Jane Austen progam for March 7. I'll post the final program if you wish. Plans are to concentrate on dances which have a link to Jane Austen's interests or family, generally dances from the 1790's and early 1800's when Jane Austen was active as a dancer. Plans so far include "Knole Park" because this estate was owned by the Duke of Dorset whose solicitor was Jane Austen's great uncle, George Austen. We'll do "Prince William of Glo's'ter's Waltz" because Jane's sister Cassandra once dined with Prince William of Gloucester (who was a nephew of George III). "Duke of Kent's Waltz" will be included -- the Duke of Kent was the fourth son of George the III and the father of Queen Victoria. Here's a topic I'd welcome some opinions on: the various Jane Austen dramatizations have generally shown dances which were published around 1765 (dances from the Apted book) or as early as about 1700 (Mr Beveridge's Maggot and Jacob Hall's Jig). Would dancers of ca. 1800 really have danced Playford dances or would they have been much more interested in the dances published in their own time? Given the numbers of dance manuals published, how long did individual dances maintain their currency? Can someone shed some light here? Beverly Francis ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:48:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:46:54 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >When I first learned FQ of D, in Boston (late 70s) we did it with the first >corners setting and the first couple casting (2nd corner/couple repeat). > >I prefer the first way. I remember it as first dancing with your corner, >and then picking up your partner and casting with her. I suppose the >second way is better for the women. > >Just my not-so-humble opinion, I've always called it Quair Faker.......... But anyway, as far as the cast go, Rich may think of it as "picking up" his partner, but I've always thought of it as the partner being outraged by the flirtation with the corner, and going in there and taking her partner back. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts eferguson-AT- umassd.edu Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 20:58:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 23:56:45 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702260508.AAA29793-AT- xis.com> > Here's a topic I'd welcome some opinions on: the various Jane > Austen dramatizations have generally shown dances which were > published around 1765 (dances from the Apted book) or as early as > about 1700 (Mr Beveridge's Maggot and Jacob Hall's Jig). Would > dancers of ca. 1800 really have danced Playford dances or would > they have been much more interested in the dances published in their > own time? Given the numbers of dance manuals published, how long > did individual dances maintain their currency? Can someone shed > some light here? We do have some evidence from diaries. From what I've seen in 18th century documents, dances retained some currency, on rare occasions a few decades at most, but nothing of that ilk. I'm sure Kitty Keller could be more specific. As for the late 17th century dances, I think we can safely assume that their inclusion was pure artistic license. It's easy enough to follow trends through dance books. You can observe significant changes at several points. Dances of the 1760s and 1770s are noticeably different from those of the 1790s. The 19th century brought on radical changes. (Bob Keller's Dance Figures Index is a good place to start this kind of analysis.) It is possible some communities preferred older dances, but the people in Austen's books seem more interested in being fashionable. One wonders why no effort was made in any of the movies to use dances of the period. Certainly, information about early 19th century dances is readily available and has been relatively well researched. I'm of 2 minds how the ECD community has been handling the Austen movies. I'm not so bothered by their choice of 17th and 18th century dances for stories set in the early 1800s. I do object to the intellectual dishonesty of presenting 20th century dancing as historical. On the other hand, if we can use the current popularity of Austen to introduce people to the joys of ECD, why not? ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 03:53:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:52:51 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <33142413.22F3-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702242305.SAA23594-AT- mail2.panix.com> I'd like to add that the dance "Amesbury" (Amsbury) as interpreted by Charles Bolton, has basically the same figures. The tune is different and the phrasing differs: part A has 7 bars and part B has 6. Especially part A is interesting: bars 1-4 First corners set and turn single bar 5 Partners take a single towards one another bars 6-7 Ones cast, twos lead up. Done this way, the awkward transition from first corners setting into first couples casting becomes a delight. Could we use a similar approach in the Fair Quaker of Deal? Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 03:57:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 12:56:53 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <33142505.2787-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702251757.SAA07455-AT- IAEhv.nl> Antony, Could you give us more bibliographical information on the BBC book you mentioned? Philippe ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:41:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:39:33 -0500 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Fair Quaker of Deal To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702261439.JAA00859-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> >> Dorky dance either way... IMHO. I agree. I have an aversion to any dance with a back ring. I have always wanted to write a dance called "Death of Fine Companion" ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 06:52:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 09:52:22 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 25 Feb 1997 BHFrancis-AT- aol.com wrote: [snip] > Here's a topic I'd welcome some opinions on: the various Jane Austen > dramatizations have generally shown dances which were published around 1765 > (dances from the Apted book) or as early as about 1700 (Mr Beveridge's Maggot > and Jacob Hall's Jig). Would dancers of ca. 1800 really have danced > Playford dances or would they have been much more interested in the dances > published in their own time? Given the numbers of dance manuals published, > how long did individual dances maintain their currency? Can someone shed > some light here? > > Beverly Francis > I'd think that ball programs and the occasional references in letters and diaries, compared to the time of original publication of the dances, would be the best guide available now. One might get a sense of how long dances continued to be done after they ceased to appear in new publications. The fact that certain dances no longer appeared in the publications doesn't compel me to believe that they were no longer done -- people, after all, could be expected to keep these books around for a while, and the publication of new books would be expected to focus on supplying a stream of new material, because you can't sell lots of books to people who already have the stuff in the books. Three other things I believe argue for the possibility of a fairly long tenure for some dances: First, I think that the dances folks learn and enjoy when they are young they would like to come back to later in life, so I would expect that younger folks would at least be exposed to these dances, and the better ones might well last in favor for more than a generation -- but at least, I think one could expect them to stick around after publication ceases for as long as the individuals who danced them when they were young could still continue to dance, which should give them 30-40 years. Second, we have a tradition that had a great amount of continuity, with active publication covering about 180 years. While there was a definite evolution over this period, it was clearly a highly popular activity, at least among a segment of the population (which expanded considerably during this time as well, it appears). Much of the learning must have occurred by direct exposure to the dance -- observations at balls, older children teaching younger ones, parents teaching children, and so forth -- so that even the existence of books would hardly be necessary for much of this to go on, once it had taken hold. The evidence is that it did take hold. Third, we sense from the writings of folks like Hardy (born 1840) and Dickens (born 1812) that dances of this genre were still being done enthusiastically well after the cessation of publication of instructions for this type of dance, in spite of a very strong assault by the cotillions, quadrilles, and couple dances that became dominant in the 19th century. One might expect that without this competition, the preservation of older forms might have been even greater. So for me it is not too hard to stretch my imagination sufficiently to allow them the possibility of having done a dance that was published a century earlier. Eric Arnold (who stumbled upon Jane Austen's grave marker in Winchester Cathederal quite by chance, and was outraged that it made no mention of her writings...) Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 08:21:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 11:17:30 -0500 From: Country Dance and Song Society (by way of Brad Foster ) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: correction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970226161730.00688a20-AT- crocker.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Here is a message from Caroline: There is, indeed, a typo in Wolverton Hall, published in the March/April issue of the CDSS News. The formation is proper, not improper (the rest of the instructions are alright); a correction will be made in the next issue. The editor's apologies to Philippe. Forwarded by Brad Foster ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:09:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:09:15 -0500 (EST) From: FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pride & Prejudice places To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970226130914_-1004969458-AT- emout20.mail.aol.com> I enjoyed the A&E / BBC version of Pride and Prejudice so much that I bought the videos - I've been a long time Jane Austen fan. Some sleuthing on the net revealed some information which delighted me: Pemberley, Mr. Darcy's home, is actually Lyme Park, near Stockport. When I organized the 1st Bare Necessities tour in 1993, we danced in the Hall there (I know that Eric and Rich were there, not sure who else from that tour is on this list). They used the exterior of Lyme Park: the scene where Mr. Darcy has just met Miss Bennett unexpectedly - the central courtyard he rushes thru to find her is the middle of Lyme Park. And of course the other exterior shots of Pemberley are of Lyme Park. Rhod Davies told me that the costumes from the production are on display at Lyme, and they have a special "walk" there now. I think we also danced Knole Park on the lawn at Knole Park on that tour. (Right dance title?) Apparently Lacock Abbey (National Trust) was also used for scenes. My question: does anyone know what hall was used for Mr. Bingley's Ball at Netherfield? Does the BBC book give any information about other locations? Anyone know of the real names for other locations in P&P or other Austen settings? (And as Mr. Darcy says best: Might I ask towards what purpose these questions may lead? :) Because I am now on the Digest version of this list, a CC reply would be quicker to me. On my 2nd or 3rd viewing of P&P, I had this wild notion that if we could get one of the main charectors to do a little "follow up" trailer - announcement giving the EFDSS and CDSS as contacts and even saying how much they enjoyed filming the dancing, we might grow significantly. An opportunity lost? Anyone have contacts at A&E / BBC and / or who might know if such a thing is possible? Ken McFarland FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 10:35:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: bolker-AT- phoenix.Princeton.EDU Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 13:34:06 -0500 (EST) From: Susie Lorand Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pride & Prejudice To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Feb 1997 FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com wrote: [snip] > On my 2nd or 3rd viewing of P&P, I had this wild notion that if we could get > one of the main charectors to do a little "follow up" trailer - announcement > giving the EFDSS and CDSS as contacts and even saying how much they enjoyed > filming the dancing, we might grow significantly. An opportunity lost? Anyone > have contacts at A&E / BBC and / or who might know if such a thing is > possible? > > Ken McFarland > FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com no contacts, but if P&P were shown on public television in the u.s. during a fundraiser, perhaps cdss and/or local dance organizations could get some publicity by underwriting a broadcast, contributing money to the station, or volunteering to answer phones. - susie lorand (public radio junkie & erstwhile college radio announcer) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 16:45:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 19:46:39 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: Rich Galloway , ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702270054.TAA22011-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > We do have some evidence from diaries. From what I've seen in 18th > century documents, dances retained some currency, on rare occasions > a few decades at most, but nothing of that ilk. I'm afraid I have to eat my own words. The claim above is an overstatement at best. We have living examples of dances that have survived from the 1770s that will surely continue into the 21st century. Many more lasted until about 1970. (See Tony Parkes post today on rec.folk.dancing. His description of a typical 1970 contra could as easily fit many 1790 ECDs.) Yes, the survivors are mainly American contras, but they were first published in London as ECDs. Furthermore, we have the phenomenon of village traditions in which a small repertoire of favorite dances are retained over generations. Since we naturally have far superior knowledge of what we dance today than of what was danced in Austen period, my above statement seems overzealous. Eric made several good points in a related post. Nevertheless, throughout the 18th century, ECD was the popular and fashionable form of social dancing. Fashions tend to change rapidly. Beverley asked for opinions and my opinion remains that I seriously doubt that any of the early 18th and late 17th century dances used in the movies would have been danced at the kind of events depicted. My apologies for the overstatement. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:21:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:44:06 -0500 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pride & Prejudice To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702270521.AAA12670-AT- mailmule0.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 01:34 PM 2/26/97 -0500, Susie Lorand wrote: > if P&P were shown on public television in the u.s. during >a fundraiser, perhaps cdss and/or local dance organizations could get some >publicity by underwriting a broadcast, contributing money to the station, >or volunteering to answer phones. > volunteering a group to answer phones would do it; announcers frequently wander over to the group during those interminable breaks and chat with them about who they are/why they're there (say anything you like, so long as it ends with a tout for public tv). there's also the possibility of finding someone to be a spokesman for your group and suggesting them to the station as a person to provide chat during those breaks. good stations often try to have the subject matter in the breaks be related to the program being shown; makes sense that, since they schedule the program specifically to attract viewers, they would want to keep their attention during the begging, i mean telethon, segments. it would require getting in touch with whoever is the chief on-camera fund-raiser in advance and chatting up him/her. maryn mck. =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= M.A.J. McKenna staff writer, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution 404.526.5987 vox 404.526.5509 fax Standard disclaimers apply. =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 21:21:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1997 23:44:15 -0500 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702270521.AAA12759-AT- mailmule0.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" a dizzying encounter with a major Macy's sale (ballgowns for $50, yowsa) left me puzzling over what kind of clothing people prefer to dance in, and what opinions are out there regarding what period or modern clothing best fits ECD. the piece that started this for me was a modern ballgown skirt - satin, stiff underpinnings; when i tried setting in it, it swung like a bell but felt unsatisfyingly separate from my body. yet i've seen people at balls in such stiff skirts, not to mention stiffer hooped mid-Victorian garb. (not to mention Baroque panniered arrangements, which must define stiff, at least laterally.) i used to be an actor; i have a pretty good understanding of how costume supports, or gets in the way of, movement - but i don't know anything about the interrelationship of dress evolution and dance evolution. i'm curious about the effect that what we choose to wear as 20thc dancers supports or distorts the dance. any opinions out there? any comment on what in modern terms is closest to historically accurate, and (could be very different) what feels best or most pleasurable to dance in? (this goes for men too: knee breeches, long trousers, kilts? any man who can do an entire evening in full white tie, stand up and be bowed to.) maryn mck. =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= M.A.J. McKenna staff writer, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution 404.526.5987 vox 404.526.5509 fax Standard disclaimers apply. =-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-=-+-= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 03:41:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Return-Path: philippe.callens-AT- uia.ua.ac.be Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:40:58 +0100 From: Philippe Callens Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <331572CA.6C0E-AT- uia.ua.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199702270054.TAA22011-AT- xis.com> Rich, You mention Tony Parkes's article in the folk dance newsgroup. I don't have access to that group. Could you forward his message? Thanks, Philippe Callens ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 04:33:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:33:29 -0500 (EST) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702271233.HAA06214-AT- maple.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >any opinions out there? any comment on what in modern terms is closest to >historically accurate, and (could be very different) what feels best or most >pleasurable to dance in? (this goes for men too: knee breeches, long >trousers, kilts? any man who can do an entire evening in full white tie, >stand up and be bowed to.) > >maryn mck. In the VT/NH/Western Mass area, quite a few people come to balls in some semblance of period garb. My partner and I decided to go the full dress route and have period costumes made. We felt that if we were going to be doing this the rest of our lives, why not do it full tilt? The favorite adage around here when calls are confused or confusing is "The music will tell you what to do." So too in dance movement with full costume. The shoulders and sleeves of the frock coat are tight, so the arms can't be raised above chest level. The knee breeches are cut full in the seat, and REALLY baggy, if you care to look, to keep them from ripping every time I sit down. I constantly feel like pulling them up, but don't really need to. And yet the thighs down to the knee bands are tight, giving a stiff formality to walking. All of this tends to define the style and formality of my dancing. Most of it is done in a fairly stiff up-and-down fashion, with no arms flailing, and a formal reserve which I am reminded of when I feel the restrictions in the clothing. And the construction of the costume is authentic. So when I dance, I think to myself "This must be fairly close to the way they danced it way back when, because I couldn't possibly do it otherwise." I really enjoy the formality of the dance, and the balls, and the costumes. And then there's the AMAZING bodice on her gown... Kevin Cooke Putney, VT kcooke-AT- sover.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:15:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:16:53 -0500 From: Mary Beth Goodman Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I dance at balls in period costume (made from a book of dress patterns by Janet Arnold btw). I really enjoy the fact that you can wear an incorrect period hoop underneath and your legs are FREE! underneath all that yardage of skirt, underskirt etc. It is MUCH cooler too, but I also enjoy the fact that it makes the skirt flow much like it would with the umpteen petticoats etc. The bodices (or undergarments) are usually boned and this is not as uncomfortable as it sounds. Most period dress is adjustable for size in some fashion so although the boning doesn't bend easily, it is not by nature tight. It is more a framework for the dress shape to fit. And it does have the side effect of encouraging one to dance in a rather upright position. I like it, but I probably wouldn't wear it around the house. Thanks Maryn for a great topic! Mary Beth Mary Beth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 05:55:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:55:08 -0500 (EST) From: SHARON MCKINLEY Subject: BALL GARB To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN re: ball garb: as mary beth said, Great Topic: i have mixed feelings about period garb. i have a fake who-knows-what-century dress based on period garb, but with the stomacher sewn in, no panniers, etc. i like to be comfortable. plus i have no ladies maid, and must be able to dress myself without help. and no wool, thanks. i've never figured out how the men managed. sweated up a storm, i guess. another reason i don't bother with the real thing is, we have some colonial williamsburg types who dance at our events, and are their costumes spec-TA-cu-lar˙ i love seeing their clothes, but i'd rather not put out that kind of money; it's SOOO much more fun (for me, anyway) to pick up prom gowns at the thrift stores, and make up for never going to the prom in high school. i've even gone in harem pants and a long vest with a baggy blouse to a ball which threatened to be rather un-gender-balanced (since i don't believe in gender-balancing, i figured i'd simply do the guy's part a lot). anyhoo, i digress. as always. i say, dance in what's comfortable. give me a skirt that swings, a top that's not too tight, some rhinestones or pearls, and good company, and i'll feel just great. sharon "if you want to join my thrift store discussion group, just let me know..." mckinley and not an official clothier for any government agency ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 07:50:05 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 10:49:18 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 26 Feb 1997, m.a.j. mckenna wrote: [snip] > any opinions out there? any comment on what in modern terms is closest to > historically accurate, and (could be very different) what feels best or most > pleasurable to dance in? (this goes for men too: knee breeches, long > trousers, kilts? any man who can do an entire evening in full white tie, > stand up and be bowed to.) I've danced a couple of evenings recently, in black tie, not white, without shedding my coat -- I was actually surprised that I was able to do this, because, for the first dance, at least, I expected to shed it after two or three dances. But I found that the coat, which was a light wool, actually breathed quite freely, and the motion of dancing, combined with a sense of being efficient in producing the appropriate motions with minimum effort (which actually had a beneficial effect on my dancing -- it was smoother than when I don't think about that) was sufficient to keep me reasonably comfortable -- I never had perspiration running down my brow. The dances themselves weren't wimpy -- one was with Scott Higgs & Hold the Mustard at the recent Ann Arbor Extravaganza (which was mostly contras), and the other was the Saturday night English ball at the Casino at the Flurry, with Gene Murrow and Spare Parts. In both dances I danced all of the dances, and not only did I enjoy dancing in that attire, but it was plainly evident that my partners and others (particularly the women, who were more likely to have dressed up than the men) in my line enjoyed it, too. Their response was well worth the little trouble of getting ready & tying the tie, and of modifying my dancing a bit to conserve energy. (And I don't even *own* a regular suit any more! So it's not like this is close to what I'm used to.) But I know that some tuxedos are much warmer, and less comfortable to move in, than others. I acquired mine (I have three now) from used clothing stores, and had them altered by a professional tailor where necessary, and I feel that it definitely has been worth it. But they aren't a substitute for costume suggesting historical styles. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:17:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:17:11 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume etc. -- correction To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Eric Arnold wrote: [snip] > The dances themselves weren't wimpy -- one was with Scott Higgs & Hold the > Mustard at the recent Ann Arbor Extravaganza (which was mostly contras), Oops! -- the band for this event was Band Named Bob. Sorry, Bob & Bob & Barbara! (Though the members of HtM who are not also part of BNB joined up with them for the two final numbers and an unbelievably fine sound...) Eric ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:52:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 08:52:10 -0800 From: dodson-AT- violet.berkeley.edu (allen and alisa dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've really enjoyed wearing a baroque style dress to balls -- it has a round skirt with many petticoats -- but it does restrict movement in the arms, and that's a problem with dances such as The Dressed Ship or anything with a ballroom position requirement (as you can see, our balls are not restricted to Playford dances). And about those amazing bodices... when you are wearing one, it's difficult to resist the constant temptation to peek downward to make sure everything is intact! I think my favorite kind of skirt -- of any period -- is one that finishes a turn single several seconds after I do. Alisa ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:31:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 09:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <01IFWL9RMGQ6BJX9DH-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- I also think this is a great topic, so here's my two cents (adjusted upwards for inflation.) 1) I've done full evenings of ECD in white tie, and ended up completely drenched in sweat. (But I sweat pretty easily, and will also be completely drenched after an evening of contras or vigorous ECD in jeans and a series of t-shirts.) Except for that problem, the outfit still looks pretty good by the end of the evening. If you're going to try this, wool is better than polyester, which is what most rental tuxes and tailcoats are made from. 2) I've also regularly danced and called whole evenings in Georgian or Regency costumes, and also ended up completely drenched in sweat. It's true that the clothes will give you a sense of what to do and how to move. But that sense may have very little to do with good modern ECD style, and it may also have very little to do with the dances being done. Very few Ball programs, in my experience, are chronologically restricted enough so that the same clothing styles would plausibly have been in vogue for all the dances on the program. Leaving out for the moment the question of dances composed since the Sharp-led revival, I think we can say that the historical part of the ECD repertoire consists of dances published from 1651-1830 or so, with first-edition Playford at one end and 'Walmer Castle' at the other. In that time, upper-class men's clothes go from coats with long strips of fabric dripping from the cuff (if you know what I mean; I don't know the technical term) through Georgian skirted coats that don't fit too closely at the shoulders through to a fairly-modern looking tailcoat that somewhat restricts arm movement. Womens' clothes go from the restoration skirt with panniers (which can triple your breadth) through the relatively straight line of the Regency (which was nonetheless worn with corsets, so movement wasn't unrestricted). All these clothes tell you about dance styles, but they tell you different and contradictory things. (Regency quadrille steps in Restoration costume might be pretty funny-looking, since they'd tend to make the skirts bounce up and down a lot. In Victorian hoops or bustles, they'd be positively dangerous, which is probably part of why the Victorians kept the quadrille figures but changed to a walking step.) If you're going to do a historical performance, then dress for the period and choose the program from dances of the appropriate period, with some care taken that reconstructions were done with authenticity. Learn the footwork. Practice the dances wearing the costume or something of the same size and general characteristics, so you get used to moving in it. If you're going to do a modern ECD ball, which most 'Playford' balls are, then wear something that looks good and feels comfortable (which may well include period costume), doesn't take up too much space on the dance floor, and permits you to dance in good modern style. Don't, please, fool yourself that you're going to have an historically accurate evening at a modern ECD ball. (Have a wonderful time anyway!) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 11:06:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:03:30 -0500 (EST) From: webatcheler-AT- juno.com (Wayne Batcheler) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <19970227.140431.6983.0.webatcheler-AT- juno.com> References: <199702270521.AAA12759-AT- mailmule0.mindspring.com> In New York City, check out the slightly used ball gowns for $6 and $7 at Domsey's in Williamsburg. From Manhattan take the J train to the first stop in Brooklyn, walk back toward the river to 431 Kent Avenue, phone 718-834-6000. This place has several floors of used clothing for men and women, and an expedition can be a lot of fun. For the last 8 or 10 years I have enjoyed dancing at ECD balls in "full fig" ca. 1740 or so, consisting of knee breeches tied over long stockings, waistcoat, long velvet coat, and lately a white wig. The construction is authentic except for the faked waistcoat patched together from upholstery fabric and an old suit vest from Brooks Bros., and a small piece of velcro on the jabot. I am interested in narrowing the range of the various elements so they might all have been worn together in some known place and year. This will require a new waistcoat, breeches of a different fabric, and cravat. The collarless coat is fitted tightly in upper body and sleeves, but does not impede anything I usually want to do with my arms during a dance. The heavy skirts of the coat swirl nicely, although the velvet sometimes grabs someone else's costume and tends to pull the coat off my shoulders. For this reason I fastened ribbons inside the shoulder seams of the coat that loop over large buttons sewn on top of the waistcoat shoulders.The knee breeches make me more conscious of my own legs and feet and what they are doing, particularly during a "slow set and honor." Padded calves are supposed to have been worn by some in the old days. Has anyone out there seen historical examples? The leather-soled shoes give me the most trouble of all because the floors we dance on are often too slippery. During a ball I never remove any part of my costume, even though it can get warmish, for three reasons: 1) the women--I almost said ladies--do not remove their gowns, 2) my waistcoat has no proper back, and 3) sometimes one has to sacrifice for art. After the ball is over, I would stay dressed up if there were any place to go. Wayne Batcheler -- webatcheler-AT- juno.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 12:06:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:06:14 -0500 (EST) From: FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: P&P / TV pubicity ideas To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970227150614_1813084131-AT- emout15.mail.aol.com> << no contacts, but if P&P were shown on public television in the u.s. during a fundraiser, perhaps cdss and/or local dance organizations could get some publicity by underwriting a broadcast, contributing money to the station, or volunteering to answer phones. >> Great idea! When our local station has a membership drive, the camera shows the phone volunteers: what about getting the volunteers in Period Costume - that might well attract attention. It would only have to be from the waist up, since the camera only shows volunteers at a desk, but the possibilities are endless. It's a shame to loose this opportunity to bring in new members in what could be a win-win situation. (And a complete off-the-wall precedent / trivia bit: those who remember Kitty Carlisle on the old TV show "What's My Line": she apparently only wore the top half of those expensive looking dresses because she was sitting at a desk and the camera didn't show her bottom half). Ken McFarland FarMcTrav-AT- aol.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:05:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 15:59:17 -0500 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitabi To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Reply to: RE>>costume and its suitability to the dance? -------------------------------------- In New York City, check out the slightly used ball gowns for $6 and $7 at Domsey's in Williamsburg. Wayne Batcheler -- webatcheler-AT- juno.com -------------------------------------- Gadzooks! Why has no one from New York mentioned this earlier? You call yourselves friends and keep things like this secret? Ha! I agree, this is a fun topic, and clearly hits a responsive note in a lot of people, women and men. On the rec.folk-dance discussion on the net, there is a perenially recurring "men in skirts" #004#thread, or occasionally it broadens to "men in dresses." Those ECD'ers who are not also crossover contra dancers may be unaware of this phenanon, but in many contradance groups nowadays, there are some men who wear skirts to dance in or sometimes quite elaborate gowns or dresses (the latter more common at big events like dance camps). A thought I had from reading these discussions is that it is simply fun to play dressup. Some men at least enjoy that as much as women, but our society does not provide the opportunity or permission for men to engage in it. The notoriously tolerant dance community provides an environment in which men can indulge in that fun. The fact that they wear women's clothing to do it is just because most men's clothing is dull. I think one of the reasons we don't see as much of the men in skirts phenemon in ECD, besides the fact that the environment there is a wee bit more conservative than the contra community in general, is that with the possibility of going the period costume route, men do have the opportunity of playing dress-up within their own gender-typical roles. Of course, the men in Scottish Country dancing have a great opportunity for playing with dress and go at it full kilt. For myself many of my best ECD dresses are from tag sales, thrift shops and the like. Actually a good part of my regular wardrobe is from tag sales and thrift shops. Last summer I snagged four beautiful Laura Ashley style cotton dresses at a tag sale, for 25 cents apiece. Yes 25 _cents_. And the crazy thing about it is, after hearing the price, I still asked if I could go try them on. I stood there in the bathroom of this house trying on 25 cent dresses thinking "This is one of the dumbest things I'd ever done. " At that price I should simply have taken them all, and if they didn't fit given them to friends. In fact, I did that with the one that didn't fit, which is why my friend Elissa and I sometimes appear in matching but different colored dresses. For balls, I don't care at all about being period. I can't afford the elaborate costumes, and I enjoy wearing modern formal clothes and have few enough occasions to wear them other than balls. However, I do enjoy looking at other women's gorgeous period ball gowns. My favorite dress is a powder blue, heavy lace cotton dress, which I originally bought for the one black tie wedding I've been invited to - I was the only woman there, other than the bride and her attendants, not wearing black. (I thought one wasn't supposed to wear black at weddings). I was already doing ECD when I was invited to the wedding so I was thinking about ball potential while shopping for a dress. Even though it's a modern dress it has what I think of as a kind of Renaissance style drape to it, and it feels great to wear. Barbara Ruth ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:22:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:21:41 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Wayne, I have been in touch with Alan Winston about my peculiar double messages, but can't be specific enough over my program or its ramifications for him to be able to help me. But thanks anyway. As to costume, it delights me to hear about the time and trouble you and others are taking to establish one authentic costume, and that you're noting the effect it can have on your movements. I and other purists have been suggesting this for a long time. The next step (literally) is to find out what the steps and arm or hand movements were for the time of your costume. There's lots of information to be had, and fortunately now there are teachers too. I'll be glad to suggest some in the N.Y. area if you wish. Someday I'd love to see CDS as an umbrella organization for groups who work in various styles, and try to clarify which is which. Julia Sutton On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Wayne Batcheler wrote: > In New York City, check out the slightly used ball gowns for $6 and $7 at > Domsey's in Williamsburg. From Manhattan take the J train to the first > stop in Brooklyn, walk back toward the river to 431 Kent Avenue, phone > 718-834-6000. This place has several floors of used clothing for men and > women, and an expedition can be a lot of fun. > > For the last 8 or 10 years I have enjoyed dancing at ECD balls in "full > fig" ca. 1740 or so, consisting of knee breeches tied over long > stockings, waistcoat, long velvet coat, and lately a white wig. The > construction is authentic except for the faked waistcoat patched together > from upholstery fabric and an old suit vest from Brooks Bros., and a > small piece of velcro on the jabot. I am interested in narrowing the > range of the various elements so they might all have been worn together > in some known place and year. This will require a new waistcoat, breeches > of a different fabric, and cravat. The collarless coat is fitted tightly > in upper body and sleeves, but does not impede anything I usually want to > do with my arms during a dance. The heavy skirts of the coat swirl > nicely, although the velvet sometimes grabs someone else's costume and > tends to pull the coat off my shoulders. For this reason I fastened > ribbons inside the shoulder seams of the coat that loop over large > buttons sewn on top of the waistcoat shoulders.The knee breeches make me > more conscious of my own legs and feet and what they are doing, > particularly during a "slow set and honor." Padded calves are supposed to > have been worn by some in the old days. Has anyone out there seen > historical examples? The leather-soled shoes give me the most trouble of > all because the floors we dance on are often too slippery. > > During a ball I never remove any part of my costume, even though it can > get warmish, for three reasons: 1) the women--I almost said ladies--do > not remove their gowns, 2) my waistcoat has no proper back, and 3) > sometimes one has to sacrifice for art. After the ball is over, I would > stay dressed up if there were any place to go. > > Wayne Batcheler -- webatcheler-AT- juno.com > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 13:22:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 16:21:41 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dear Wayne, I have been in touch with Alan Winston about my peculiar double messages, but can't be specific enough over my program or its ramifications for him to be able to help me. But thanks anyway. As to costume, it delights me to hear about the time and trouble you and others are taking to establish one authentic costume, and that you're noting the effect it can have on your movements. I and other purists have been suggesting this for a long time. The next step (literally) is to find out what the steps and arm or hand movements were for the time of your costume. There's lots of information to be had, and fortunately now there are teachers too. I'll be glad to suggest some in the N.Y. area if you wish. Someday I'd love to see CDS as an umbrella organization for groups who work in various styles, and try to clarify which is which. Julia Sutton On Thu, 27 Feb 1997, Wayne Batcheler wrote: > In New York City, check out the slightly used ball gowns for $6 and $7 at > Domsey's in Williamsburg. From Manhattan take the J train to the first > stop in Brooklyn, walk back toward the river to 431 Kent Avenue, phone > 718-834-6000. This place has several floors of used clothing for men and > women, and an expedition can be a lot of fun. > > For the last 8 or 10 years I have enjoyed dancing at ECD balls in "full > fig" ca. 1740 or so, consisting of knee breeches tied over long > stockings, waistcoat, long velvet coat, and lately a white wig. The > construction is authentic except for the faked waistcoat patched together > from upholstery fabric and an old suit vest from Brooks Bros., and a > small piece of velcro on the jabot. I am interested in narrowing the > range of the various elements so they might all have been worn together > in some known place and year. This will require a new waistcoat, breeches > of a different fabric, and cravat. The collarless coat is fitted tightly > in upper body and sleeves, but does not impede anything I usually want to > do with my arms during a dance. The heavy skirts of the coat swirl > nicely, although the velvet sometimes grabs someone else's costume and > tends to pull the coat off my shoulders. For this reason I fastened > ribbons inside the shoulder seams of the coat that loop over large > buttons sewn on top of the waistcoat shoulders.The knee breeches make me > more conscious of my own legs and feet and what they are doing, > particularly during a "slow set and honor." Padded calves are supposed to > have been worn by some in the old days. Has anyone out there seen > historical examples? The leather-soled shoes give me the most trouble of > all because the floors we dance on are often too slippery. > > During a ball I never remove any part of my costume, even though it can > get warmish, for three reasons: 1) the women--I almost said ladies--do > not remove their gowns, 2) my waistcoat has no proper back, and 3) > sometimes one has to sacrifice for art. After the ball is over, I would > stay dressed up if there were any place to go. > > Wayne Batcheler -- webatcheler-AT- juno.com > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 18:45:44 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 21:45:11 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume etc. -- double goof To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII A reader kindly pointed out that I had misidentified the band at the Casino at the Flurry, which was Pleasures of the Town, not Spare Parts, as I said in my haste. My apologies to Susan, Joyce, and the rest of the fine musicians of that delightful band, and to all of the readers of the mailing list for the carelessness which led to the errors and subsequent corrections. Mea culpa! Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:57:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:01:10 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702281557.QAA00500-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Philippe Callens wrote: > Antony > Could you give us more bibliographical information on the BBC book you > mentioned? It is called "The Making of Pride and Prejudice" and is published jointly by BBC Books and Penguin Books at the UK price of 10 pounds. I got mine in the English Bookshop in Amsterdam for NLG 35.15 and I saw it on sale at the Museum in Hoorn where the costumes were on show (this show finishes 2 March by the way). I'll bring it with me to show you next time we meet. Antony Heywood ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 07:57:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:01:10 +0000 From: Antony Heywood Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pride & Prejudice places To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702281557.QAA00514-AT- IAEhv.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ken McFarland wrote > My question: does anyone know what hall was used for Mr. Bingley's Ball at > Netherfield? Does the BBC book give any information about other locations? > Anyone know of the real names for other locations in P&P or other Austen > settings? The BBC Book (Penguin Books) does indeed give details of all the locations and a map showing where they all are and extensive details of how they were modified. Netherfield was near Banbury but the ball was filmed near St. Albans. There are about 25 locations listed, too many to list here. Please ask if you want more details. The book "The Making of Pride and Prejudice" lives beside my computer! Antony Heywood The Netherlands ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:20:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:22:06 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Jane Austen Dance To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702281730.MAA22364-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Philippe Callens asked: > You mention Tony Parkes's article in the folk dance newsgroup. I > don't have access to that group. Could you forward his message? Sure, here 'tis: > Robert Bley-Vroman (vroman-AT- hawaii.edu) wrote: > In article <3309FE38.694F-AT- crd.lotus.com>, > nospam_pmasters-AT- crd.lotus.com Peter Masters wrote: >> Just out of curiosity, can anyone pinpoint when the "inactive >> partner swing" first made it into contra dance coreography? I >> recall thinking it novel when someone called Shadrack's >> Delight; since I don't normally remember the names of dances I >> guess it made an impression. I suppose the Becket Reel should >> count, and is some 20 years older, but at the time the Becket >> Reel was considered sui generis. >> One of the many nice things about Shadrack's Delight is the way >> the progression is "distributed" through several figures. From the >> dancer's point of view, the partner swing (including the >> inactives) on the side seem to result in the women progressed, >> but the men unprogressed and on the wrong side. The half >> right-and-left then gets the men right, but the women are now >> wrong side. Then final ladies chain straightens everything out. >> It makes for a very satisfying experience. I would be interested >> in knowing the history of this progression technique. > As the author of Shadrack's Delight, I can attest that there was > little or no technique involved in devising the progression. It > just sort of happened. > My objective was to adapt the MWSD call "swing thru" to the > phrasing of traditional contra dancing. (Swing thru: From a wavy > line, those who can turn half by the right, then those who can turn > half by the left.) Done at a comfortable speed, swing thru takes 6 > steps, not an easy number to fit into music written in multiples of > 4. I had either to contract or expand the move to phrase it > properly; squeezing it into 4 steps would create a rat-race (or so > I thought; I've seen that very move in some recent contras), so I > decided to add balances and pad each turn out to 4 steps. Partners > were approaching one another at the end of the sequence, making the > swing inevitable. > The second half of the dance, with its admittedly unusual > progression, was merely an attempt to mimic the "B" part of many > 19th-century contras: actives down the center, same way back, cast > off, and either "right and left" or "ladies chain" over and back. > Going down four-in-line was the obvious thing to do after the > swing. Casting off from a line of four wasn't original with me; I > borrowed it from Queen Victoria as recorded by Don Armstrong > (that's also where I got the idea of using Scottish music in 6/8 > for Shadrack). Using one-half each of "right and left" and "ladies > chain" was a happy inspiration that kept a good deal of the > traditional feel while making the dance more interesting by 1972 > standards. > A couple of years ago someone remarked to me that Shadrack's > Delight was the first truly modern contra. I'm not sure there was > just one, but after pondering the matter I can see what he meant. > I'm assuming that he was thinking in terms of CDSS-type groups; > Herbie Gaudreau wrote many all-moving contras in the 1950s and > '60s for the MWSD market. But with the exception of Becket Reel > (which was indeed sui generis for many years), none of them had a > partner swing. This wasn't important to MWSDers, who traditionally > (yes, they do have traditions!) do each dance with their spouse or > spouse-equivalent; but it bothered folk-revival contra dancers, > who like to switch partners. I seem to have inadvertently composed > the first duple improper contra to give everyone a partner > swing...unless Bluemont Reel or another dance is older. Can anyone > beat the composition date for Shadrack of 28 April 1972? (And who > DID write the original Bluemont Reel, and how does it go? The > Warren Hofstra version in *Zesty Contras* has a similar > progression to Shadrack.) > Tony Parkes > (note new email address: hands4-AT- world.std.com) ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:21:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:21:14 -0500 (EST) From: AAHAYDEN-AT- amherst.edu Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: forwarded for Caroline Batson To: ECD-AT- PLAYFORD.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01IFY8NZTLB694DTCA-AT- amherst.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 From: IN%"office-AT- cdss.org" "Country Dance and Song Society" 28-FEB-1997 12:09:50.93 To: IN%"aahayden-AT- amherst.edu" CC: Subj: ecds list Return-path: Received: from rmc1.crocker.com (root-AT- rmc1.crocker.com) by amherst.edu (PMDF V5.1-6 #15767) with ESMTP id <01IFY66FY3LC8Y5VN6-AT- amherst.edu> for aahayden; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:09:41 EST Received: from cdss.crocker.com (iplink024.crocker.com [205.246.4.24]) by rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id MAA15694 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:08:34 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 12:08:15 -0500 From: Country Dance and Song Society Subject: ecds list X-Sender: cdss-AT- crocker.com To: aahayden-AT- amherst.edu Message-id: <2.2.32.19970228170815.006aef58-AT- crocker.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Re Jane Austen books and English country dancing: PRIDE & PREJUDICE Thought this may be of interest to some of you: Robin Hayden kindly forwarded Antony Heywood's message re "The Making of Pride and Prejudice" to me. I wrote Antony for details and he told me the publishers are Pengiun Books and BBC Books, and the authors are Sue Birtwistle and Susie Conklin. I called Penguin USA (800-526-0275, Consumer Sales) and was told they do not plan to publish the book in this country. EMMA (A&E version, not the commercial film version) This video is just out, or just about to be released. Does anyone have a list of the dances which were done in the film? I think there were six: one early on, four in the "ball scene", and one at the end of the film. Caroline Batson, Editor, CDSS News, Country Dance and Song Society, news-AT- cdss.org Country Dance and Song Society office-AT- cdss.org 17 New South Street camp-AT- cdss.org Northampton, MA 01060 sales-AT- cdss.org 413-584-9913 news-AT- cdss.org fax: 413-585-8728 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 10:45:54 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 13:45:11 -0500 (EST) From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: forwarded for Caroline Batson (dances in Emma) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <970228134509_-1038303708-AT- emout05.mail.aol.com> In a message dated 97-02-28 13:23:33 EST, Caroline Batson writes: On the A & E production of Emma: "Does anyone have a list of the dances which were done in the film? I think there were six: one early on, four in the "ball scene", and one at the end of the film." The ones I remember seeing were Jack's Maggot (with the heys in a skipping - or perhaps skip-change - step, and the hands-across in a walking step), Hole in the Wall, Juice of Barley and Kelsterne Gardens. The tune of Mr. Isaac's Maggot was played, but the accompanying dance was different. Carol Martinez White Plains, N.Y. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 14:03:22 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 16:55:49 -0500 From: The Dupre Family Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BC2598.5AA2B2C0-AT- ppp2.nerc.com> Ken McFarland said: > ... Kitty Carlisle on the old TV show "What's My Line": she apparently only wore > the top half of those expensive looking dresses... I'm sorry, I can not resist. Is any one else picturing Kitty naked from the waist down? ( Once again... I'm sorry but it had to be said ) dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com ph: (609) 844-0459 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:00:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:57:22 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: (Fwd) Reason #173 to fear technology... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199702282255.RAA24223-AT- xis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I received the following from Mary K Friday and could not resist sharing it. Will Laban Notation be rendered obsolete? Reason #173 to fear technology... o o o o o o> o .|. \|. \|/ // X \ | <| <|> /\ >\ /< >\ /< >\ /< >\ /< Mr. Ascii-head learns the Macarena. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 17:40:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 20:03:48 -0500 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199703010140.UAA28654-AT- mailmule0.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" actually, you can see the modern version of this (half-dress-up, not Kitty Carlisle half-naked. the horror, the horror...) on (some) very hot, sticky, newsy days in Washington, D.C. outside the White House or Capitol. the reporters doing stand-up have to look decently dressed, but since the camera only catches them from the sternum upwards... maryn mck. At 04:55 PM 2/28/97 -0500, someone bitwhacked: : >Ken McFarland said: > >> ... Kitty Carlisle on the old TV show "What's My Line": she apparently only wore >> the top half of those expensive looking dresses... > >I'm sorry, I can not resist. Is any one else picturing Kitty naked from the waist down? > >( Once again... I'm sorry but it had to be said ) > >dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com ph: (609) 844-0459 > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:15:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 01:15:08 -0500 (EST) From: Sharon Green Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: costume and its suitability to the dance? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199703010615.BAA16060-AT- mail2.panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" [Personal recommendation--not intended as spam. but probably irrelevant to dancers not in the immediate tri-state (NY, NJ, CT) area] Kit Campbell [perennial Early Music Week staff member and former staffer in the CDSS office when it was in New York] currently earns her living as a professional costumer. This past year she made me a 1780 Polonaise ball gown that caused much buzzing in the Women's Changing Room at the Germantown Ball [a noted hangout of costume mavens]. She has also made amazing full rigs for Beverly Francis and Christine Helwig. Me, I am barely capable of sewing on a button, but I admire good work. Kit does wonderful work. If you are interested in authentic period garb, including proper underpinnings, talk to her: (212) 942-0520.