Archive-Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 17:40:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 20:39:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Christine Robb Subject: English newsletter To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A while ago someone posted information about a UK-based publication for ECD. Does anyone still have that information handy so I can subscribe to it? Thanks, Christine bk492-AT- freenet.toronto.on.ca ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 07:24:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 07:24:33 -0700 From: dgilli-AT- slip.net (Dan Gillespie) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Pride & Prejudice To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello to the list: A while back when A&E was showing their production of "Pride & Prejudice" several folks wrote to ask which dances were being danced in the different dance scenes in the movie. Unfortunately, my memory went totally blank when a dance friend asked about this show. Could someone send me private e-mail to refresh my memory? With thanks, Dan Gillespie dgilli-AT- slip.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:05:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 09:04:23 -0700 From: Graham Baldwin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Pride & Prejudice To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960802160423.006ca910-AT- mail.info-mine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 07:24 AM 8/2/96 -0700, you wrote: >Hello to the list: > A while back when A&E was showing their production of "Pride & >Prejudice" several folks wrote to ask which dances were being danced in the >different dance scenes in the movie. Unfortunately, my memory went totally >blank when a dance friend asked about this show. Could someone send me >private e-mail to refresh my memory? > With thanks, Dan Gillespie > dgilli-AT- slip.net > I am also interested in knowing more about these dances. PLease either post any reply to the list or include me in the "private" response. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Graham J. Baldwin Tel: +1 (604) 683-2037 ROBERTSON INFO-DATA Inc. Fax: +1 (604) 681-4166 Suite 640, 580 Hornby Street E-mail: gbaldwin-AT- info-mine.com Vancouver, BC, CANADA V6C 3B6 URL: http://www.info-mine.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 13:30:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 16:30:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "David R. Woolf" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Atlanta's English Weekend To: ECD list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT English Country Dance Atlanta presents the Second Annual Maggots, Gypsies, and Other Divertissements a weekend of English Country (and contra) Dance featuring . . . ********************************************* Earl Gaddis Jacqueline Schwab Daron Douglas with Brad Foster teaching and prompting ********************************************** $36 for the weekend (in advance) September 27, 28 & 29, 1996 Atlanta, Georgia You can find the brochure at: userwww.service.emory.edu/~dwoolf/weekend.html Or e-mail name and address to: dwoolf-AT- emory.edu or call the Atlanta Dance Hotline at 404/351-DANC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Woolf Emory Eye Center W - 404/778-4121 Emory University H - 404/355-2827 Atlanta, GA 30322 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 19:45:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 02 Aug 1996 22:15:59 +0000 From: Mary Stafford Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Pride & Prejudice To: "'ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" Message-ID: <01BB80C4.96502240-AT- mes.world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BB80C4.96594A00" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB80C4.96594A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The two identifiable ones I remember were "Shrewsbury Lasses" and "Grimstock". Mary Stafford Allston, MA mes-AT- world.std.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB80C4.96594A00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih4WAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG AFABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAFsAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABFQ0RAcGxheWZvcmQuc2xhYy5zdGFuZm9yZC5lZHUAU01UUABFQ0RAcGxheWZvcmQu c2xhYy5zdGFuZm9yZC5lZHUAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAfAAAARUNEQHBs YXlmb3JkLnNsYWMuc3RhbmZvcmQuZWR1AAADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAhAAAAJ0VD REBwbGF5Zm9yZC5zbGFjLnN0YW5mb3JkLmVkdScAAAAAAgELMAEAAAAkAAAAU01UUDpFQ0RAUExB WUZPUkQuU0xBQy5TVEFORk9SRC5FRFUAAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAAAANY RQEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQSAAQAWAAAAUkU6IFByaWRlICYg UHJlanVkaWNlAOYGAQWAAwAOAAAAzAcIAAIAFgAPADsABQBCAQEggAMADgAAAMwHCAACABYADgAZ AAUAHwEBCYABACEAAABFOTQzMzlFOEIwRUNDRjExODRCODQ0NDU1MzU0MDAwMAD7BgEDkAYAmAIA ABIAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQCAy0UvwIC7AR4AcAABAAAA FgAAAFJFOiBQcmlkZSAmIFByZWp1ZGljZQAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG7gMAvReg5Q+rssBHPhLhE RVNUAAAAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAASAAAAbWVzQHdvcmxkLnN0ZC5jb20A AAADAAYQ+IgFpQMABxBoAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAAVEhFVFdPSURFTlRJRklBQkxFT05FU0lSRU1F TUJFUldFUkUiU0hSRVdTQlVSWUxBU1NFUyJBTkQiR1JJTVNUT0NLIk1BUllTVEFGRk9SREFMTFNU T04sTUFNRVNAV09STERTVAAAAAACAQkQAQAAAB8BAAAbAQAA3gEAAExaRnWXHNqe/wAKAQ8CFQKo BesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcGAAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J 2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEwMxRQCwoUUQUL8mMAQCBUaGUg4HR3byBpDbACMAaQnwcwAmAb EAIgB5FJIBYQZweABtAEkCB3BJAbECJEU2gWEHdzYghweZggTGEEEAeQIiAAcCpkHYBHBRBtE8Bv Y9hrIi4KhQqFTQrAHjAuUwGQDdAFsGQKhUFs0mwfYW4sBdBBCoUHgcJAG0BybGQuE8AjkA0FoG0f 3Ar0bGkzNtcN8BncE1BvE9BjBUAkLy8lPyZPCrIVMQAq0AADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAQAAHMKAX zPa/gLsBQAAIMKAXzPa/gLsBHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAACLoA== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BB80C4.96594A00-- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 12:13:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 14:12:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: ECD at Sugar Hill To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608141912.OAA16087-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Vic Kelson and I have been working on organizing a short English Country dance workshop at Sugar Hill, near Bloomington IN, this weekend. It will be held on Saturday at a time to be determined (and announced) at the dance Friday evening. All interested dancers are invited to participate and all musicians are invited to join those members of the Flatland Consort who make it to Sugar Hill in providing the music. For the most part the music will be from Peter Barnes' ECD tune book and most of the dances will be from Keller and Shimer's 'Playford Ball' I'll see you at Sugar Hill. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 07:25:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 10:27:27 -0400 From: mgoodman-AT- albany.net (Mary Beth Goodman) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Wonderful Evening in Amherst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Had a wonderful evening last night dancing to Pleasures of the Town, with excellent teaching/leading by Colin Hume. The crowd was a bit on the experienced side (due to the presence of many attending the Amherst Assembly) but was still kept in line by Colin's programming. Not tres difficult but "challenging." He likes people to pay attention! We did several dances I hadn't done before: Tall and Short (much laughter in my set, since 5'2" me was dancing with 6'?" Graham Knight!), Winter Solstice, Winter Memory.... We did Morpeth!!!!!!! (Thanks Colin for making my rant deprived feet happy!) and Step Stately for 5 couples. This was cool beyond words and strangely more relaxed and reasonable than done for 3. The only really assertive dancing one had to do was getting into the single line of 10. Colin debuted a new dance called Amherst Assembly which was very pleasant. I like his dances -- he always warns "assume nothing" and I always know one cannot nod off during them. Lovely social evening with much good chatting and the celebration of June and George Thomas' 40th Anniversary. Thanks all organizers and Colin! Mary Beth Goodman happy feet ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:56:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 19 Aug 1996 10:52:30 -0700 From: EVANS Nan E Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Portland English Country Ball To: ecd (Return requested) Message-ID: <"024A63218A9DE004*/c=us/admd= /prmd=or.gov/o=PRD/ou=MSMail/s=EVANS/g=Nan/i=E/"-AT- MHS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT An Invitation to All - The Portland (Oregon) English Country Dancers are presenting a Ball on the evening of Saturday, November 9, 1996, featuring dancing masters Helene Cornelius and Brad Foster. Music will be provided by Portland's Full Circle - George Penk, Heather Pinney and Fred Nussbaum. There will be a dance on Friday, Nov. 8, and a ball workshop on the afternoon of Nov. 9. Plus, there will be an after-the-ball party and a Sunday morning brunch for all ball goers. The ball and the workshop are $22 (or $20 if paid before October 15). For more information and a copy of the registration flyer: Call Paula Hamlin at 503-691-1758 or e-mail to phamlin-AT- lazerquick.com Hope to see you there and to meet new dancers from the ECD network. Nan Evans ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:14:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 16:14:31 -0700 From: dodson-AT- violet.berkeley.edu (Allen Dodson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking for instructions for these dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan, Yes, the fair one is in Scott Higgs's book. I know Jackie Schwab did the midnight ramble at Mendocino last year and i wrote down the directions for it from her--i think i also noted where it's from (Walsh, maybe?)--try to remember and ask about it when you're over for the fall weekend meeting tomorrow. Cheers, Allen Dodson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 17:24:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:26:29 -0400 From: mgoodman-AT- albany.net (Mary Beth Goodman) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Looking for Amherst Assembly reports! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Come on - we know you've done your laundry by now -- how about a report on your experiences at the premiere Amherst Assembly? Mary Beth Goodman <-- gotta know ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 18:59:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 21:58:41 -0400 From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking for Amherst Assembly reports! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960821215841_462475236-AT- emout10.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi, Mary Beth, Sure, the laundry's done - but how do you deal with the dance withdrawal symptoms after Pinewoods PLUS Amherst? (Life's problems should all be like this....) The week was wonderful. As we moved day by day from the Renaissance up to 1996, doing the dances (often with J. Schwab at the harpsichord), struggling through the pas de bourree and minuet and learning about the different periods, the sense of being part of a strong and evolving tradition was tremendous, as was the realization that someday others will look back at us with interest and curiosity just as we looked at our origins at Amherst. 'Til next time, Carol ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 20:36:40 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 21 Aug 1996 23:38:34 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking for instructions for these dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608220340.XAA01818-AT- xis.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > I know Jackie Schwab did the midnight ramble at Mendocino last > year and i wrote down the directions for it from her--i think i > also noted where it's from (Walsh, maybe?)--try to remember and ask > about it when you're over for the fall weekend meeting tomorrow. > Cheers, Allen Dodson I don't recall seeing a modern interpretation of Midnight Ramble. There are 2 dances with that title in 18th century dance books. One is in Thompson's Compleat Collection ... Vol. II (1765) and the other in Thompson's Compleat Collection ... Vol. III (1773). Both are quite dancable. The V2 dance is in 6/8 and the V3 dance is in cut time and has a clap. Hope that helps. Rich Galloway ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 06:37:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 09:36:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Looking for Amherst Assembly reports! To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 21 Aug 1996 MartinezPC-AT- aol.com wrote: > Hi, Mary Beth, > > Sure, the laundry's done - but how do you deal with the dance withdrawal > symptoms after Pinewoods PLUS Amherst? (Life's problems should all be like > this....) Well put, Carol. > The week was wonderful. As we moved day by day from the Renaissance up to > 1996, doing the dances (often with J. Schwab at the harpsichord), struggling > through the pas de bourree and minuet and learning about the different > periods . . . [snip] Some of us made the difficult choice to participate more in the music and somewhat less in the dance; the week was very full for the AA participants and there were many opportunities to explore, and I came away with the sound of 100-120 voices and instruments ringing in my ears and brain from a performance the final evening of a glorious William Byrd mass, which, in typical fashion, took place at the same time as the final dance which Colin Hume called. I got there in time to watch his new dance "The Amherst Assemply" be done for the first time, and then do the last waltz... At least the withdrawal for the (instrumental) musicians is slightly tempered by the company of our instruments, and I have taken solice in the company of my newly-acquired treble viol, with which I am rapidly acquiring an affectionate relationship, even without a proper bow. But I must try to get back to work, which has been harder than usual after this event. More later. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:29:17 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:29:14 -0700 From: dgilli-AT- slip.net (Dan Gillespie) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello to everyone in English Countyr Dance cyber-space! I have read that there are many editions of Playford's Dancing MAster, the first in 1651 & the others published later. I have a copy of the first Playford...a reproduction not a facsimile. Are there facsimile copies of the first Playfford in print still? Are there are copies of the second edition Playford available currently? Several authors mention htat there are some notable differences in the melodies for some the dances between the first edition & later editions. It would be fascinating to get a closer firsthand look. Any hints & pointers are most welcome. Feeling quite happy form dancing non-stop at Pennsic War & ready to try out some of the nifty new dances I learned at home! Dan Gillespie ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:54:53 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) From: HUGH-AT- edsug.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01I8KHWROIWY000SC2-AT- UG.EDS.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT There is the Barlow book of all the Playford tunes, giving the evolution of each tune over successive editions. I don't know of any reprints of any editions other than the 1st. The EFDSS library at Cecil Dharp House has microfilm copies of all editions, but I don't suppose that helps you much. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:42:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:42:10 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960823084210.337-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Jeremy Barlow's book, The Complete Country Dance Tunes from Playford's Dancing Master (1651-ca.1728) has sources for all collections. Getting through all that might take some time and money. The Lloyd Shaw Foundation Archives, Albuquerque, NM, has a full set as covered by Barlow's book. Dr. William Litchman is head archivist. You can reach hiim at 1620 Los Alamos SW Albuquerque, NM 87104 PH: 505 247-3921 E-Mail: Litchman-AT- neon.unm.edu I don't know what the charges would be. Hope this hellps Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:18:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:17:59 -0700 From: dgilli-AT- slip.net (Dan Gillespie) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi from West Virginia: Thanks for taking the time to reply to my query about the second edition of Playford. I will try to follow up on your lead with the Barlow book youmentioned. Happy dancing, Dan Gillespie ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:39:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:39:20 -0400 From: BILLQS-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960823123919_508305390-AT- emout15.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi! You might try interlibrary loan for copies of future editions of Playford (preferably a collegiate interlibrary loan.) I got a microfilm containing the second edition which I had to hand microfilm copy one quarter at a time. But it was worth it. Bill Street ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:02:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 15:16:39 -0500 From: Mary E Jones Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <321E11A7.5A88-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Dan Gillespie wrote: > > Hi from West Virginia: > Thanks for taking the time to reply to my query about the second > edition of Playford. I will try to follow up on your lead with the Barlow > book youmentioned. > Happy dancing, Dan Gillespie This post is for Dan and indirectly for anyone else who wondered, along with Mary Beth Goodman how the Amherst Assembly affected those who attended: Dance reconstruction: it ain't that easy, folks. I had the treat to be at Pinewoods English Week with Fried Herman who does quite alot of dance reconstructions (attending her class Fried on Fried where we talked about research and reconstruction) and then the Amherst Assembly which took English dance from its origins in French and Italian court dances up through present time. What an enormous undertaking but - wow, it has changed forever how I look at dances! In a nutshell, the old published dance collections were really just an 'aid to memory' and do not spell out all the figures and steps (especially!) the way dances are written now. So there are gaping holes in the original texts because "everyone knew what they meant"; add to that all the errors that appeared and disappeared in various editions. The upshot is that in order to reconstruct a dance from these sources, you need to check all the printed editions forward and backward and also consult all manners of sources for the steps - which we, in modern times, have almost completely eliminated - that these dances were designed to use. Believe me this is barely scratching the surface. Dance Reconstructionists: there is a star in your Crown of Heaven for the work that you have done! While I will never master the Baroque steps that we tried, I realize now why there are dances that we do that never really fit the music: because they were probably danced with a pas de bouree or minuet step that does fit the music - like Queen's Jig and that bizarre (no longer) 12 step hands across (read: 3 pas de bouree steps). This is not to say that we should suddenly dance all Playford and other collections to these steps - we are not re-enacting the dances, we are dancing in our own tradition but it is to say that 'research' involves many, many layers of enormous amounts of work by many very talented people - who, blessedly were at the Amherst Assembly to humble us all. As a footnote to Carol Martinez's post - she was also at both weeks - it was especially difficult to find all these fabulous dancers gone: we had spent 2 solid weeks everyday together first at Pinewoods and then here in my hometown of Amherst. Nearly half of the Amherst Assembly people came straight from Pinewoods English Week so the dance withdrawal was even more difficult than usual. There were such wonderful dancers/musicians/leaders/researchers - it was *really* something! Good luck and good dancing - Mary Jones ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 11:40:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 14:41:56 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608241844.OAA24536-AT- xis.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary Jones wrote: > there are gaping holes in the original texts because "everyone knew > what they meant"; add to that all the errors that appeared and > disappeared in various editions. The upshot is that in order to > reconstruct a dance from these sources, you need to check all the > printed editions forward and backward and also consult all manners > of sources for the steps - which we, in modern times, have almost > completely eliminated - that these dances were designed to use. > Believe me this is barely scratching the surface. Well put! Indulge me a few quibbles if you will. Although errors in the music frequently appear and disappear in subsequent editions, the dances tend to be stable. We see lots of errors in dances, but with few exceptions, the errors remain through every publication of the dance. We see minor changes in spelling and punctuation in the dances, but otherwise the dances tend to be word for word whenever and wherever they are published (including dances one publisher cribbed from another). Even if the dance is published under a different name or to a different tune, it is likely to be repeated verbatim. (Dick's Maggot/Double the Cape is one of the well-known exceptions.) Those few dances we find described independently and differently are invaluable. Dealing with steps gets complicated fast. Not only did the steps used change through time, but we know that the steps used differed between dance locations, between classes, and between individuals. Even at a single dance, different people danced different steps and certainly had differing levels of proficiency. (See for example, the Diary of Dudley Ryder 1715-1716.) As you said, "this is barely scratching the surface." P.s. I've got no complaints about E&A week at Pinewoods. It was great fun! But, your comments make me regret that I was unable the do the Pinewoods English Week/Amherst Assembly tandem. Ah, well. ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 12:43:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 15:57:48 -0500 From: Mary E Jones Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <321F6CCC.30C2-AT- javanet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <199608241844.OAA24536-AT- xis.com> Rich Galloway wrote: > P.s. I've got no complaints about E&A week at Pinewoods. It was > great fun! But, your comments make me regret that I was unable the > do the Pinewoods English Week/Amherst Assembly tandem. Ah, well. Please, everyone: The only experts to come out of the Amherst Assembly were the experts who went in...and that certainly was not me. What we were given was an overview that, by dint of the enormous amount of material, really whetted the appetite for more of the specific things that interested each of us. One person mentioned that she would have liked to spend more time on the Cecil Sharpe 'era' and the style of his dancing: we danced a few dances using his explicit directions and 'running step' really meant running - a far cry from how we do those same dances today. But more time was not to be had. It was really something...! Mary Jones ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 13:36:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 16:36:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sat, 24 Aug 1996, Mary E Jones wrote: [snip] > The only experts to come out of the Amherst Assembly were the experts > who went in... Mary, you really hit it on the head there! There was so much material to try to assimilate, that it was as much as I could do to try to grasp the scope of it. For those with a focus already on a particular topic covered in the program, there was a wealth of material to pursue. For me, having gone in as I did with little more than a vague notion of wanting to know more about what preceeded Playford, not only was there more than I could absorb in the available time, the whole subsequent development was described in richer detail than I had reason to imagine possible, and the perspective will certainly influence the way that I approach, both as a teacher and dancer, the variety of stylistic elements that are intertwined in or absent from ECD today. I hope that a comprehensive bibliography of sources for the material to which we were exposed can be created and made available to all of the rest of the dance community who have an interest in any aspect of what we considered during the week. That would be a big job, but perhaps it would be timely, since the Amherst Assembly most likely will mark a significant point in the dissemination of this information. One recognizes that such a job is never really done, but having such a record of the "known knowledge" of the subject at this point seems particularly appropriate to me. Eric Arnold, AAA (Amherst Assembly Amateur) Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 01:11:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 01:43:32 -0400 From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Looking for Amherst Assembly reports To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960824225125_267999128-AT- emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As a followup to what Mary Jones and Eric Arnold have written, I went to Amherst knowing that somewhere research was being done of which we on the dance floor were the beneficiaries. I had no idea, however, of the amount of scholarship involved in so many related fields, the painstaking and voluminous task of finding, deciphering and cataloguing the dances and tunes in countless manuscripts and publications, the difficulties of reconstruction, the controversies surrounding the research, and the passionate involvement of so many talented and dedicated experts. It was, as Mary said, a humbling experience. As a dancer with a budding interest in teaching, I found the week gave me a lot to think about. For example, when asked questions such as "Do I start on the left foot or the right?" or "What's the direction of this turn single?" or "What step should I use?", I now know my answer will most often reflect a 20th century interpretation or preference. I wonder whether this may ultimately give me more confidence in conveying my own preferences when teaching a dance.. ECD will always mean dancing to beautiful music with great people whose company I enjoy, but Amherst added other layers - related areas I may someday want to explore - and that's an exciting prospect. It also made me realize more than ever how fortunate we who share this interest all are. You're right, Mary, it was "really something!" Carol Martinez White Plains, NY ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:02:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 20:29:51 -0400 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608260201.WAA26640-AT- answerman.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT *finally* saw "Emma" - definitely the best dancing scenes among the recent Jane Austen movies! but i have to protest: credits for caterers, gaffers, best boys, even unit nurses, and none for the choreographer? (dance coach, whatever.) unfair, unfair. maryn mck. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:11:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 00:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, m.a.j. mckenna wrote: > *finally* saw "Emma" - definitely the best dancing scenes among the recent > Jane Austen movies! > but i have to protest: credits for caterers, gaffers, best boys, even unit > nurses, and none for the choreographer? (dance coach, whatever.) unfair, > unfair. Agreed: they finally got the dancing right. (I had some problems with the acting, personally, but that's another story.) But while we're on the subject of credits, did anyone notice the excellent country dance band featured toward the end of "Cold Comfort Farm"? And they were left completely out of the credits!!! Anyone know who they were? Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:19:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:18:56 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960826081856.5ac-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT When it comes to Sharp (no 'e'?) remember the incredible lean, or slant that bodies were supposed to assume, the preliminary, almost, to beginning a figure or a movement from one place to another. Note the p famous photo of "Parson's Farewell." Forbes/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:20:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sun, 25 Aug 1996, m.a.j. mckenna wrote: > *finally* saw "Emma" - definitely the best dancing scenes among the recent > Jane Austen movies! > but i have to protest: credits for caterers, gaffers, best boys, even unit > nurses, and none for the choreographer? (dance coach, whatever.) unfair, > unfair. Very near the end of the credits, there was a name mentioned along with the credits for the dance sources, which included the dance title, the original publication on which the dance was allegedly based, and the name of an interpreter. The name wasn't familiar to me, & I don't recall who it was; I got the impression as the stuff whisked by on the screen somewhat too fast to catch on the first fly-by that this was an interpretation specifically for the production. I did think the second dance looked more like "Hole-in-the-wall-in-the-wall-in-the-wall-in..." than anything else that I'm somewhat familiar with, with its successive casts by the leading couple as the others led up between them. It was interesting and perhaps somewhat encouraging to see some use of steps in the execution of the figures. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 07:04:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > When it comes to Sharp (no 'e'?) remember the incredible lean, or slant that > bodies were supposed to assume, the preliminary, almost, to beginning a > figure or a movement from one place to another. Note the p > famous photo of "Parson's Farewell." Recalling that that photo also came from Amherst, we at Amherst considered that style along with the many others that go into what we currently call ECD. The movement in that particular photo, I believe, was "Sharp-style" siding, and I believe that they are in the process of changing direction, rather than just starting the move, at the instant the photo was taken, so they would have twice the impulse (=momentum transfer) that they would have if they were just starting out; that helps to explain the extreme angles. The other things that go into the whole picture are the use of tennis shoes for good traction, and a tempo that you'd scarcely believe; those dances were *lively*! Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:28:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:18:39 -0400 From: Albert Blank Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: Eric Arnold , ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <4E7D4411635-AT- POSTBOX.CSI.CUNY.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Date sent: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:04:26 -0400 (EDT) > From: Eric Arnold > Send reply to: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: Re: Playford 2 > To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > > > On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > > > When it comes to Sharp (no 'e'?) remember the incredible lean, or slant that > > bodies were supposed to assume, the preliminary, almost, to beginning a > > figure or a movement from one place to another. Note the p > > famous photo of "Parson's Farewell." > > Recalling that that photo also came from Amherst, we at Amherst considered > that style along with the many others that go into what we currently call > ECD. The movement in that particular photo, I believe, was "Sharp-style" > siding, and I believe that they are in the process of changing direction, > rather than just starting the move, at the instant the photo was taken, so > they would have twice the impulse (=momentum transfer) that they would > have if they were just starting out; that helps to explain the extreme > angles. The other things that go into the whole picture are the use of > tennis shoes for good traction, and a tempo that you'd scarcely believe; > those dances were *lively*! > > Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor Concerning the speed, unless you see the film projected on one of the rare projectors that can be run on one of the rare machines that can be set to the 18 frames per second used at the time Parsons was filmed, you have to keep in mind that present conventional rates of 24 frames per second speed the motion by 50%. That's why the keystone cops look even funnier to us than they did to their contemporaries. Best regards, Albert ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:27:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Albert Blank wrote: > > > When it comes to Sharp (no 'e'?) remember the incredible lean, or slant that > > > bodies were supposed to assume, the preliminary, almost, to beginning a > > > figure or a movement from one place to another. Note the p > > > famous photo of "Parson's Farewell." > > > > Recalling that that photo also came from Amherst, we at Amherst considered > > that style along with the many others that go into what we currently call > > ECD. The movement in that particular photo, I believe, was "Sharp-style" [snip] > Concerning the speed, unless you see the film projected on one of the > rare projectors that can be run on one of the rare machines that can > be set to the 18 frames per second used at the time Parsons was > filmed, you have to keep in mind that present conventional rates of > 24 frames per second speed the motion by 50%. That's why the > keystone cops look even funnier to us than they did to their > contemporaries. > Best regards, > Albert (Hi Albert!) Since the picture I was referring to, and I believe Mr. Forbes was referring to, is a still photo reproduced with some frequency in articles and books about ECD (I think it's in Keller & Shimer's "The Playford Ball", for example), this wasn't a misleading factor. The speed at which the dances were played on the old recordings that were put out in the early days of the EFDS and used for dancing, as reported at Amherst by those that knew them, and the tempo of Jacqueline Schwab's playing of "The Queen's Jig" the morning that we considered the Sharp revival of the Playford dances, which was deliberately played to emulate that period, were the things on which I based my comment about the speed. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:17:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:45:56 -0400 From: "m.a.j. mckenna" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma/C.C. Farm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608270217.WAA18838-AT- answerman.mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT At 12:03 AM 8/26/96 -0700, Paul Stamler wrote: > did anyone notice the excellent country dance band >featured toward the end of "Cold Comfort Farm"? And they were left >completely out of the credits!!! and playing *morris* music at that! rant or die, maryn mck. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:08:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:10:00 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >On Mon, 26 Aug 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > >> When it comes to Sharp (no 'e'?) remember the incredible lean, or slant that >> bodies were supposed to assume, the preliminary, almost, to beginning a >> figure or a movement from one place to another. Note the p >> famous photo of "Parson's Farewell." > >Recalling that that photo also came from Amherst, we at Amherst considered >that style along with the many others that go into what we currently call >ECD. The movement in that particular photo, I believe, was "Sharp-style" >siding, and I believe that they are in the process of changing direction, >rather than just starting the move, at the instant the photo was taken, so >they would have twice the impulse (=momentum transfer) that they would >have if they were just starting out; that helps to explain the extreme >angles. The other things that go into the whole picture are the use of >tennis shoes for good traction, and a tempo that you'd scarcely believe; >those dances were *lively*! > Has anyone got photographs of a similar situation now? I tend to think our Boston style of movement isn't all that far from Sharp's early '20s style, We lean and bank a lot and nearly run as well. Perhaps it would be fun to see how we actually move nowadays especially in a demonstration. What do we look like at NEFFA? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 21:08:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 00:10:08 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >(Hi Albert!) > >and the tempo of Jacqueline Schwab's playing of "The >Queen's Jig" the morning that we considered the Sharp revival of the >Playford dances, which was deliberately played to emulate that period, >were the things on which I based my comment about the speed. What was the tempo like? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:37:33 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:37:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > >and the tempo of Jacqueline Schwab's playing of "The > >Queen's Jig" the morning that we considered the Sharp revival of the > >Playford dances, which was deliberately played to emulate that period, > >were the things on which I based my comment about the speed. > > What was the tempo like? I would recommend that you direct this question to Jaqueline at your next opportunity, or to someone who knows the recordings first-hand. But in the interim, so as not to leave this totally vague, I have attemped to recreate the sense of the tempo in my mind by humming the tune at the speed which serves my memory best, and timing it with the timer on my watch. The circles went fast enough to make real sense out of what Sharp called "the running step", and I'd guess that we were going somewhere in the vicinity of 140 beats (= steps) per minute. My timing efforts, without the benefit of actually doing the circle to see if it feels right, suggest to me that it was more than 120 and less than 160; I think I'll have to get four people together & do the circles to pin it down closer than this. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor P.S. If you do get a more reliable figure, I'd really like to know how good/bad my estimate is, so please pass it on! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:42:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:42:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > Has anyone got photographs of a similar situation now? I tend to think our > Boston style of movement isn't all that far from Sharp's early '20s style, > We lean and bank a lot and nearly run as well. Perhaps it would be fun to > see how we actually move nowadays especially in a demonstration. What do > we look like at NEFFA? Sardines in a can (live ones, of course)! Excepting Reel Nutmeg, of course... ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 10:15:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 13:15:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Major OOPS! on previous posting... To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 26 Aug 1996, Eric Arnold wrote: [quote from Albert Blank's posting deleted] > Since the picture I was referring to, and I believe Mr. Forbes was > referring to, is a still photo reproduced with some frequency in articles > and books about ECD (I think it's in Keller & Shimer's "The Playford > Ball", for example), this wasn't a misleading factor. The speed at which > the dances were played on the old recordings that were put out in the > early days of the EFDS and used for dancing, as reported at Amherst by > those that knew them, and the tempo of Jacqueline Schwab's playing of "The > Queen's Jig" the morning that we considered the Sharp revival of the ^^^^^^^^^^^ -- OOPS! -- Got the names of two dances mixed up! The dance I was referring to is "Shrewsbury Lasses", not "The Queen's Jig". Sorry, Emily & Al & any others who may have puzzled over this nonsense -- my sincere apologies. Too much reading & not enough thinking, I'm afraid. > Playford dances, which was deliberately played to emulate that period, > were the things on which I based my comment about the speed. > > Eric Arnold > Ann Arbor > > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 15:18:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:07:44 -0400 From: Albert Blank Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: Eric Arnold , ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <500A66F46E5-AT- POSTBOX.CSI.CUNY.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Eric, In respect to the speed at which Parsons was done, I thought you were referring to the film which I believe is still at CDSS headquarters that shows May Gadd and other memorable dancers doing the dance. Presumably we could determine the exact tempo by clocking the dance in the movie and converting to the old frame per dance speed. best regards, aab ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 17:32:49 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:33:17 -0400 From: mls-AT- panix.com (Michael L. Siemon) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subscribe mls-AT- panix.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 18:48:01 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:47:23 -0400 From: MartinezPC-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960827210340_270703830-AT- emout08.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In a message dated 96-08-27 00:12:06 EDT, Emily Ferguson writes: << Has anyone got photographs of a similar situation now? I tend to think our Boston style of movement isn't all that far from Sharp's early '20s style, We lean and bank a lot and nearly run as well. Perhaps it would be fun to see how we actually move nowadays especially in a demonstration. >> At the recent Amherst Assembly, organizer Gene Murrow had a similar idea. It did not involve a demonstration group, but those participants in the Assembly who couldn't resist a great photo-op. We were photographed, for the archives, dancing two modern (and I believe, as yet unpublished), compositions - Fried Herman's "Randolph Farewell" and Gary Roodman's "Twenty-something"(hope I have that title right). I do wonder how those photos will look and what people will say about our style of movement sometime in the 21st century! Carol Martinez White Plains, N.Y. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:25:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:26:50 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > >> >and the tempo of Jacqueline Schwab's playing of "The >> >Queen's Jig" the morning that we considered the Sharp revival of the >> >Playford dances, which was deliberately played to emulate that period, >> >were the things on which I based my comment about the speed. >> >> What was the tempo like? > >I would recommend that you direct this question to Jaqueline at your next >opportunity, or to someone who knows the recordings first-hand. I've got some incredible old brass band ECD recordings on tape, as well as the "Countryside Players" ep's. Are some of these among her sources? Also, if anyone wants copies I'd be willing. The tapes themselves are pretty old, but they've been stored pretty well. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 20:25:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 23:26:58 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >On Tue, 27 Aug 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > >> Has anyone got photographs of a similar situation now? I tend to think our >> Boston style of movement isn't all that far from Sharp's early '20s style, >> We lean and bank a lot and nearly run as well. Perhaps it would be fun to >> see how we actually move nowadays especially in a demonstration. What do >> we look like at NEFFA? > >Sardines in a can (live ones, of course)! I was referring to the Boston Centre demonstration in the Main Hall. That's basically the only opportunity I ever have to dance with my idea of enough space. > >Excepting Reel Nutmeg, of course... Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 21:04:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 00:05:55 +0000 From: Rich Galloway Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608280409.AAA18947-AT- xis.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Very near the end of the credits, there was a name mentioned along > with the credits for the dance sources, which included the dance > title, the original publication on which the dance was allegedly > based, and the name of an interpreter. The name wasn't familiar to > me, & I don't recall who it was; I got the impression as the stuff > whisked by on the screen somewhat too fast to catch on the first > fly-by that this was an interpretation specifically for the > production. I haven't seen Emma myself, but Mary Kay Friday and other dancers at Monday's Baltimore English dance said that the credits listed Mr. Beveridge's Maggot, Auretti's Dutch Skipper, Jacob Hall's Jig and one other that no one could recall. (Yes, I know, none of those would have been danced in 1812. Such is cinema.) BTW, does anyone know whether they used the original tune to Jacob Hall's Jig or if they used the tune (Under and Over) that Sharp substituted? ==================================================== Rich Galloway Silver Spring, MD ==================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 00:26:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 00:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Rich Galloway wrote: > BTW, does anyone know whether they used the original tune to Jacob > Hall's Jig or if they used the tune (Under and Over) that Sharp > substituted? As I recall, it was "Under and Over". Peace. Paul ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 05:50:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:43:58 +0000 From: Howard Mitchell Subject: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199608281249.NAA11809-AT- zeus.tcp.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've just come back from the Whitby Folk Week and looked at messages waiting on the ECD list. The fact that there's nothing that jumps out and says (to me) `that's interesting' or `I can help there' prompts me to ask, `am I in the right place?'. Firstly, I'm not critisising anyone other than myself. Perhaps I'm not raising issues or queries or initiating discussion on subjects that are, I believe in the scope of the group but do not currently seem to be aired. Please let me know, are the following ramblings of interest or should they be elsewhere (or nowhere)? Let me try and put this in context. I mostly play for dances but I have, and do, dance most of the types of dances seen at all types of events in the UK. This means playing some thirty or forty times a year for folk dances, barn dances, country dances, ceilidhs, weddings, festivals, workshops. But only a few of these (say 3 or 4) will be for `dancers'. Almost all of the dances will however contain a mixture of 17th and 18th century dances, traditional English dances, Irish and Scottish dances, American contras and squares and an occasional European dance. I'm sure other UK people will recognise the, dare I say, normal UK mix. (BTW there are only 10 recognisable UK names on the list). There must have been some 500 or more social dance participants at Whitby in addition to the singers, musicians, ritual dancers et al. There were workshops in American Square and Running Set and `Playford-Style' dance but curiously none in traditional English dance. Is it assumed that you can just pick it up at dances? Does nobody need to know how to rant, polka (particularly how to polka round another couple), waltz, etc? Conversely, for musicians, there were workshops in playing for English (traditional) dance (polkas, jigs, hornpipes etc, not named dance tunes), playing for Nothumbrian dance - including sessions with Will Taylor, an old man who has been playing for dances all his life in Northumberland, but nothing specifically on playing for Playford etc (although I didn't get to some sessions on `playing from the dots'). And then the dances (Tea dances, ceilidhs, dances for dancers and festival dances) were heavily weighted in favour of traditional dance but then the attendance was similarly weighted. Is this a reflection of the demand for these types of events, the age groups attending festivals or what? Memorable events were: John Kirkpatrick's `one man ceilidh' - he played the British chromatic accordion and called simultaneously. I can't event talk and play at the same time. Alistair Anderson, Will Taylor and La Toque Blue providing Northumbrian dances and music. The music varied from full band to solo harmonica and was mostly for hornpipes and polkas and included a goodly number of couple dancers. Alistair suggested that, next year we have a `real Northumbrian ceilidh' - dance `til 10 O'clock, the military two step, big pots of tea and sandwiches, dance `till midnight, big pots of tea and cakes, military two step, dance `till two O'clock, big pots of tea and more sandwiches. Oh alright the military two step, dance `till morning, big pots of tea and breakfast and the miltary two step to finish. (I think a similar programme could be put together for other UK regions, there being sufficient local dances or variants in Sussex, Dorset, East Anglia, Cheshire, Lancashire for example). A workshop on `playing for English dance' by the Geckoes. The tunes were polkas, schottisches, hornpipes, waltzes, jigs and dotted jigs but when asked if they had any reels they said, `we have a couple if we need them'. How does this brief description of some of the festival events compare with English Ceilidhs which I've seen mentioned in Vancouver and other places? What dances are done at English Ceilidhs in the US? Howard Mitchell ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 07:41:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 10:41:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "David R. Woolf" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: dancing in Emma To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Rich Galloway wrote: > BTW, does anyone know whether they used the original tune to Jacob > Hall's Jig or if they used the tune (Under and Over) that Sharp > substituted? "Under and Over" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Woolf Emory Eye Center W - 404/778-4121 Emory University H - 404/355-2827 Atlanta, GA 30322 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:32:50 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:01:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Koeppen Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <01I8T398GYMA0002WY-AT- SERV04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Howard Mitchell wrote: >John Kirkpatrick's `one man ceilidh' - he played the British chromatic >accordion and called simultaneously. I can't event talk and play at >the same time. Neither can I but I've got an excuse, I play flute. For instruments that can handle it, it must be difficult, but I can see where it would make you popular among organizations that are on a tight budget and can't afford a caller *and* a band. >A workshop on `playing for English dance' by the Geckoes. The tunes >were polkas, schottisches, hornpipes, waltzes, jigs and dotted jigs >but when asked if they had any reels they said, `we have a couple if >we need them'. > >How does this brief description of some of the festival events >compare with English Ceilidhs which I've seen mentioned in Vancouver >and other places? What dances are done at English Ceilidhs in the US? In the New England area this sounds more like what goes on at the contra-dances. Except here it's the opposite, all reels and a few jigs and waltzes. Also a schottische or two just in case. This brings to mind the question what a beginning band is supposed to do with all the possible English country dance tunes? Unlike contra it's not possible to have 50 to a hundred reels down solid and always use those. I know a good English country dance band should know every tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that is thrown at them. But for a band that's not that experienced this just doesn't work without sounding awful. Is it OK to ask the caller ahead of time what tunes to be prepared for? How small is it reasonable to request the list to be kept to? 20, 30, or 40 tunes? I know the caller needs some flexablity to be able to accomodate different situations, but it seems to me that the dancers stumble just as much as the musicians do and that it's pretty much a direct cause and effect situation, what's the best compromise? Charlie ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:04:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:04:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608281904.OAA10595-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Charles Koeppen wrote: >contra-dances. Except here it's the opposite, all reels and a few >jigs and waltzes. Also a schottische or two just in case. Don't forget the hambos as well. :-) > This brings to mind the question what a beginning band is supposed to >do with all the possible English country dance tunes? Unlike contra >it's not possible to have 50 to a hundred reels down solid and always >use those. I know a good English country dance band should know every >tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that >is thrown at them. But for a band that's not that experienced this >just doesn't work without sounding awful. Is it OK to ask the caller >ahead of time what tunes to be prepared for? How small is it reasonable >to request the list to be kept to? 20, 30, or 40 tunes? I know the >caller needs some flexablity to be able to accomodate different >situations, but it seems to me that the dancers stumble just as much as >the musicians do and that it's pretty much a direct cause and effect >situation, what's the best compromise? With contras almost any square tune will go OK with any dance. While there are tunes that go better with a specific dance than others, for the most part the caller and the band can work independently and things will be OK. Obviously the closer the coordination between the caller and the band the better, but it is possible for the caller to choose a dance and the band to choose a tune independent of one another. In ECD of course this won't work, since each dance needs to be done to a specific tune. Thus I feel the caller/teacher must choose dances well in advance and let the band know so they can be prepared for those. This does require much more planning and preparation than contra. As time goes by the band will build up a repetoire of tunes they have done (and thus can do a fair job on in a pinch) just as the dancers will build a repetoire of dances they have done and thus can do with little or no instruction. Of course new material and the programs of special events such as balls must be decided on well in advance. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:11:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 11:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul J. Stamler" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Wed, 28 Aug 1996, Charles Koeppen wrote: > This brings to mind the question what a beginning band is supposed to > do with all the possible English country dance tunes? Unlike contra > it's not possible to have 50 to a hundred reels down solid and always > use those. I know a good English country dance band should know every > tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that > is thrown at them. But for a band that's not that experienced this > just doesn't work without sounding awful. Is it OK to ask the caller > ahead of time what tunes to be prepared for? How small is it reasonable > to request the list to be kept to? 20, 30, or 40 tunes? I know the > caller needs some flexablity to be able to accomodate different > situations, but it seems to me that the dancers stumble just as much as > the musicians do and that it's pretty much a direct cause and effect > situation, what's the best compromise? In my experience, having the caller tell you what to prepare is not only OK, it's mandatory. For a couple of years we had a caller who never told us in advance, although we begged her to do so, and the band often sounded scrappy as a result. Our current callers always tell us, and they also include a couple of extra tunes they will use as alternates if there's an influx of beginners. It makes all the difference in the world. Typically we get a list of 8 tunes plus two or three alternates per evening. It also helps, of course, that we have some extremely good sight-readers in the band, two of whom have orchestra experience. But there's no substitute for being forewarned. Peace. Paul# ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:20:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 12:20:44 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: RE: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A7863.CC8D1A74.24-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Howard Mitchell wrote . . . >I've just come back from the Whitby Folk Week and looked at messages >waiting on the ECD list. The fact that there's nothing that jumps out >and says (to me) `that's interesting' or `I can help there' prompts me >to ask, `am I in the right place?'. >Firstly, I'm not critisising anyone other than myself. Perhaps I'm >not raising issues or queries or initiating discussion on subjects >that are, I believe in the scope of the group but do not currently >seem to be aired. Please let me know, are the following ramblings >of interest or should they be elsewhere (or nowhere)? It is certainly my intention that this forum should be a good place for this kind of discussion. An early subscriber pointed out that I'd made a blunder by starting the list on a workstation named 'playford', since that would give English people the idea that Playford dancing was the only kind we wanted to talk about. [I have since acquired another workstation and named it ceilidh.slac.stanford.edu, but I don't have list management software installed there.] >There must have been some 500 or more social dance participants at >Whitby in addition to the singers, musicians, ritual dancers et al. >There were workshops in American Square and Running Set and >`Playford-Style' dance but curiously none in traditional English >dance. Is it assumed that you can just pick it up at dances? Does >nobody need to know how to rant, polka (particularly how to polka >round another couple), waltz, etc? Around here, in the San Francisco Bay Area, we rant very rarely. (Off the top of my head, I'd say that a dance with ranting will show up every fourth or fifth evening in a 2-or-3-times-a-month series.) When the caller wants to do a rant, he or she teaches the step. We very occasionally have a waltz workshop. I've never encountered a polka workshop as part of a country-dance series. As you might guess from the infrequency of ranting, there don't seem to be a lot of traditional dances done at our English dances. "Nottingham Swing" and "Morpeth Rant" show up pretty often, and there's the very occasional appearance of "La Russe Quadrille", but I think that's about it. This may be part of the reason that we have very distinct contra and English communities here. I'm actually very much interested in getting traditional English dances some more exposure in the Bay Area. When I have a chance I call things like "Bonnets So Blue" or "Durham Reel." >Is this a reflection of the demand for these types of events, the age >groups attending festivals or what? What are the age groups attending English folk festivals? The closest equivalent experience I have is with the Mendocino dance camps, where the average age is probably early fortiesw. >John Kirkpatrick's `one man ceilidh' - he played the British chromatic >accordion and called simultaneously. I can't event talk and play at >the same time. That does sound memorable. Seattle's Laurie Andres does this for English dancing, and I've seen Jim Morrison accompany himself on fiddle while leading a "power-skipping" border morris workshop through the woods. >Alistair Anderson, Will Taylor and La Toque Blue providing >Northumbrian dances and music. The music varied from full band to >solo harmonica and was mostly for hornpipes and polkas and included >a goodly number of couple dancers. Alistair suggested that, next >year we have a `real Northumbrian ceilidh' - dance `til 10 O'clock, >the military two step, big pots of tea and sandwiches, dance >`till midnight, big pots of tea and cakes, military two step, dance >`till two O'clock, big pots of tea and more sandwiches. Oh alright >the military two step, dance `till morning, big pots of tea and >breakfast and the miltary two step to finish. Is the military two-step different from the military schottische? Is it a sequence dance? What's the music like? >How does this brief description of some of the festival events >compare with English Ceilidhs which I've seen mentioned in Vancouver >and other places? What dances are done at English Ceilidhs in the US? The only English Ceilidhs in the US I've ever heard about are in Seattle, and I haven't managed to attend any. This is something I'm interested in trying to get started in the Bay Area, so would love to hear anything more about. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 13:29:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:26:54 -0400 From: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608282026.QAA05946-AT- vicon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > ... Presumably we could determine the exact tempo by clocking >the dance in the movie and converting to the old frame per dance >speed. Does anyone know what kind of camera the film was shot by? If it turns out to have been one of the hand-cranked silent film cameras, this couldn't be done at all. The rate of such films is usually assumed to be 16 frames per second (fps), but even the same camera operator could have shot film at a different rate from one second to the next. In fact, since the fps rate of old silent films is well known among film and tv producers, yet it seems like when I see such films they always run faster than they could have been shot, the actual fps rate might be somewhere between 12 and 16. Alex Clark ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:11:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:10:05 -0400 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: my 2 cents worth To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608282110.RAA07388-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Inexperienced Bands: I have worked a lot with inexperienced bands over the years. What I usually do is try to get the program to the band a few weeks in advance. I usually try to have a few extras on the list. When I arrive at the dance, I ask if there are any the band isn't comfortable with. This makes for a more comfortable evening for everyone concerned. If the band is having trouble playing, it distracts me as a caller and the dancers. I also ask for a list of tunes the band can play. This gives me an idea of what I can use in an emergency. Rants: The number of rants and traditional dances done in the Boston area has gone way down. You can always tell the more experienced dancers, they are teh ones who recognize the rants by name and head for the lobby when they are put on the program. Eric Smith ran a series of "Barn Dances" in Western Mass/ Brattleboro VT area a few years back. My understanding is that they weren't well attended. I don't think a normal evening of dances is a good place to teach rants/polkas, etc. I don't teach them very often in a single evening of dancing. I have been trying to spend some time at dance weeks/weekends at Pinewoods teaching rants. I usually get a good response. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:27:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:33:04 -0500 From: sheilab-AT- tiac.net (Sheila Beardslee Bosworth) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: CK reply to Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I don't usually reply to the list (usually just the the individual poster)... but... Charles Koeppen replied to someone... > This brings to mind the question what a beginning band is supposed to >do with all the possible English country dance tunes? Unlike contra >it's not possible to have 50 to a hundred reels down solid and always >use those. I know a good English country dance band should know every >tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that >is thrown at them. But for a band that's not that experienced this >just doesn't work without sounding awful. Depends on what your skills are and what the caller/dancers expect. >Is it OK to ask the caller >ahead of time what tunes to be prepared for? Absolutely! Whenever I've been a "guest" caller I ask my host/ess for a list of favorites for that area and try to pick one or two (keeps ME on my toes, too)... I always prepare more than I know will really be done, with covers (switches) in case I need to choose from Column A not Column B! > How small is it reasonable >to request the list to be kept to? 20, 30, or 40 tunes? For one night or a season? 11-15 dances in one night is a big number... And you *might* practice in between to work on new tunes... >but it seems to me that the dancers stumble just as much as >the musicians do and that it's pretty much a direct cause and effect >situation, what's the best compromise? If a caller simply shows up and expects an inexperienced band to be able to fake their way through something....well, I'd rather stay home. It's courtesy ALL AROUND, for the caller to advise you what's coming up and for you (all of the band, not just you personally) to prepare for it. As you learn more tunes and feel better about improvising complementary parts it gets easier to do... Good Luck! Sheila Beardslee Bosworth sheilab-AT- tiac.net Editor, Boston Early Music News >>Last call for BEMN Fall Preview listings! 29 Main Street, Acton MA 01720-3505 voice: 508/263.9926 fax: 508/263.2366 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 17:36:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 20:25:37 -0400 From: Albert Blank Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Playford 2 To: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark), ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <51AF37E792D-AT- POSTBOX.CSI.CUNY.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > Date sent: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 16:26:54 -0400 > From: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark) > Send reply to: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu > Subject: Re: Playford 2 > To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > > ... Presumably we could determine the exact tempo by clocking > >the dance in the movie and converting to the old frame per dance > >speed. > > Does anyone know what kind of camera the film was shot by? If it turns out > to have been one of the hand-cranked silent film cameras, this couldn't be > done at all. The rate of such films is usually assumed to be 16 frames per > second (fps), but even the same camera operator could have shot film at a > different rate from one second to the next. In fact, since the fps rate of > old silent films is well known among film and tv producers, yet it seems > like when I see such films they always run faster than they could have been > shot, the actual fps rate might be somewhere between 12 and 16. > > Alex Clark > Dear Alex, Good point! The film shows a relatively slim May Gadd. That would place it in the 20's or 30's. I don't know whether anyone has a precise date. Maybe someone at CDS knows. It was almost certainly made by a windup handheld camera. That makes the measurement of tempo rather iffy. The best we can do is to clock the speed on one of the old shellac discs, which ran at a quite reliable 78rpm in that period. Unfortunately, the metronome marking for Parsons Farewell in Sharp's Country Dance Tunes for piano is lacking. It might be in the arrangements for band. If memory serves, Sharp wrote somewhere that a tempo of 1/4 = 120 is good for the fast dances. I'll continue to pursue the point in my nonexistent leisure but would be happy to have others follow up. Best regards, Albert ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 03:51:13 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:44:52 +0000 From: Howard Mitchell Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199608291050.LAA23284-AT- zeus.tcp.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Charles Koeppen wrote: > I know a good English country dance band should know every > tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that > is thrown at them. I've never seen a Barnes Book. Does this mean I must throw away the 1500+ tunes I have which are unattached to specific dances and the several files of named tunes which get added to each time a caller either sends a tune in advance for a new dance or simply puts it on the music stand with a 'how about this one then'. Jonathan Sivier wrote: >In ECD of course this won't work, since each dance needs to >be done to a specific tune. I have to disagree. This was part of my original reason for wondering if I was in the right place. English Country Dance for me is not limited to Playford-Style dance. In fact this forms a very small part of my activities in playing for events at which the Country Dances of England are danced. Even if I remove the tunes of Celtic origin from the repertoire of an English Country Dance Band in the UK (I know this is a generalisation but I think it's largely correct) I will be left with far more 'unattached' than 'attached ' tunes. There are however some dances with attached tunes in the traditional repertoire (eg the Oldham Rowling Hornpipe). Alan Winston wrote: > What are the age groups attending English folk festivals? The > closest equivalent experience I have is with the Mendocino dance > camps, where the average age is probably early fortiesw. I'd say the average is much lower than forty. Even if we take only the dancing community rather than musicians et al there is a large number in the 15-30 range who take part vigourously in traditional dance. There is an unfortunate rift between Playford-style dancers and traditional dancers which exists within the regular dancing community but does not exist in the general paying public. Callers at PTAs etc often mix styles without the knowledge of the audience. > Is the military two-step different from the military schottische? > Is it a sequence dance? What's the music like? I don't know the military schottische but it may be the same as the two step is done to schottisches. Yes there is a formalised version which is a sequence dance. Richard Jackson wrote: > Rants: > > The number of rants and traditional dances done in the > Boston area has gone way down. You can always tell the > more experienced dancers, they are teh ones who recognize > the rants by name and head for the lobby when they are > put on the program. Why do 'more experienced' dancers dislike stepping? I find this remarkable. My entire point is that _Traditional_ English Country Dances (mostly involving stepping, not just ranting) form a (if not the) major part of English Country Dances in total. To ignore them or to give them lesser status is unfortunate at best. Howard Mitchell ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 07:21:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:19:51 -0400 From: rjackso1-AT- mcfly.sanders.lockheed.com (Richard Jackson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Traditional Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608291419.KAA07469-AT- thole.sanders.lockheed.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > My entire point is that _Traditional_ English Country > Dances (mostly involving stepping, not just ranting) form a (if not > the) major part of English Country Dances in total. To ignore them > or to give them lesser status is unfortunate at best. I think there are many among us who feel that losing rants/polkas/hornpipes from English Country Dancing would be unfortunate, but I also don't want to force people to do a particular type of dance just because "we are supposed to do it." I feel caught between the majority of people who do not want to do a rant during an evening of dancing and the minority, who not only want to do them, but want to be taught how to do them better. When should we teach these dances? A side anecdote: At Pinewoods English Scottish Session, the theme of the evening was "The 60's". Everyone was wearing their love beads and tie-dyed clothes. We were all groovin' man!! I had put "Speed the Plough" on the program (pure luck). Now normally your average, jaded, Playford-loving, English Dancer (of which I am one) would barely tolerate this dance. But when the everyone applied the theme to the dance it became one wild scene. From my point of view it was pure chaos, until it came to the dance-around, when training kicked in and everyon snapped back into line. It was greate to watch. In my opinion, this is how the dance should be done. Too many people treat these traditional dances with a very narrow view. "I must perform the steps as they are written in the book." I don't think that is how they were done traditionally, and I am happy to see soem creativity and fun today. Rich Jackson ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:51:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:51:07 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A7941.F91763F4.26-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A general statement, before replying to some of Howard's specific points. As founder of this list, I would really like to see discussion of all aspects of English Country Dance, which includes both current and historical American and British models. The EC dance scenes in the UK and US seem to be very different, and I'd like to hear more about them both. The differences interest be considerably. I'd also be happy to have people swapping ceilidh dances and debating which tunes go best with which dances. List members who aren't interested in those topics can ignore those messages. I hope discussion of Playford or Sharp-style (for want of a more accurate term) ECD will continue as well. List members who aren't interested in those topics can ignore *those* messages. (As Howard acknowledged, so I hope he doesn't think I'm slagging him): If we aren't talking about what you're interested in, start a conversation about it. And try to make your subject lines distinctive. >Charles Koeppen wrote: >> I know a good English country dance band should know every >> tune in the Barnes book well enough to be able to handle anything that >> is thrown at them. >I've never seen a Barnes Book. Does this mean I must throw away the >1500+ tunes I have which are unattached to specific dances and the >several files of named tunes which get added to each time a caller >either sends a tune in advance for a new dance or simply puts it on >the music stand with a 'how about this one then'. Of course not. But I think I detect sarcasm. My responses will be based on my experience in the San Francisco Bay Area and with callers/leaders, generally from the East Coast of the US, who have come out here for camps or workshops. It appears that the current American ECD style (disregarding Renaissance Faire, SCA, or other semi-historical recreators) emphasizes the smooth, flowing, graceful aspect of ECD, usually found in "historical" dances, over the exuberant aspect usually found in "traditional" dances. I gather that the situation in England is different. Music for the bulk of the current American ECD repertoire can be found in the Barnes book (of 404 tunes), which is an excellent start for an American ECD musician. Maybe Charles' statement should be "I know a good American ECD band should ..." It certainly can help callers out a lot if the band can sightread, since you don't want to be limited only to tunes which happen to be in Barnes. >Jonathan Sivier wrote: >>In ECD of course this won't work, since each dance needs to >>be done to a specific tune. >I have to disagree. This was part of my original reason for >wondering if I was in the right place. English Country Dance for me >is not limited to Playford-Style dance. In fact this forms a very small >part of my activities in playing for events at which the Country >Dances of England are danced. Definitely a UK/USA difference. As I say above, I hope we can talk about UK ECD as well as USA ECD here. By the way, at what kind of non-dancer events do you play for UK ECD? (You mentioned the PTA. Are these fundraisers, social events? In large cities? With groups that ordinarily do something else?) Just curious. >Richard Jackson wrote: >> Rants: >> >> The number of rants and traditional dances done in the >> Boston area has gone way down. You can always tell the >> more experienced dancers, they are teh ones who recognize >> the rants by name and head for the lobby when they are >> put on the program. >Why do 'more experienced' dancers dislike stepping? I have two suspicions: First, the 'more experienced' dancers are older and tireder. Their knees hurt. (Curiously, there are a lot of morris dancers at the San Jose English dance, and they still don't really like 'hippety-hoppety' dances that much. They grumble about doing rigadoons in Early American dance.) Second, the movement style developed in USA ECD - smooth, flowing, very suitable for waltz-tempo stuff like, say, "Miss de Jersey's Memorial" -- cannot be applied directly to ranting or vigorous stepping dances. You need to move differently to do these dances well, and people who know that they're good at what they're doing don't always like to find themselves doing something they're not so good at. (Can you make sense of that last sentence? I can, but I know what I mean.) -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:23:03 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: from rec.folk-dancing: barn dance website announcement To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A794E.CA26B704.53-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- This is reposted (without permission, sorry) from rec.folk-dancing. I've taken a look, and it seems like a pretty good site. (No snappy graphics, but lots of information, although no mention of sources.) -- Alan ========================================================================== From: Thomas Green Newsgroups: rec.folk-dancing Subject: Barn Dance pages announcement Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:22:41 +0100 Organization: MRC Applied Psychology Unit, Cambridge Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3225A7B1.72A4-AT- mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk> I have put together some pages with a small repertoire of mainly English barn dances, together with some notes on calling taken (with permission) from this newsgroup and from a callers workshop. They're aimed at people who are novice callers for English-style ceilidhs, like myself, but they may be of interest to others. The address is http://www.mrc-apu.cam.ac.uk/personal/thomas.green/BarnDances/ I would welcome comments and further material but I shall be away from my computer for the next few weeks, so please don't expect a quick reply from me. Thomas Green Cambridge, UK =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:37:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:35:40 -0700 From: Graham Baldwin Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Am I in the right place? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960830003540.0070b1a8-AT- mail.info-mine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Howard Mitchell wrote: >How does this brief description of some of the festival events >compare with English Ceilidhs which I've seen mentioned in Vancouver >and other places? What dances are done at English Ceilidhs in the US? and Alan Winston wrote: >The only English Ceilidhs in the US I've ever heard about are in Seattle, >and I haven't managed to attend any. This is something I'm interested in >trying to get started in the Bay Area, so would love to hear anything more >about. Is that Vancouver, WA or Vancouver BC? I can only speak for the latter, which, of course, is not in the U.S. but in Canada. Howard's event sounded like fun - the same sort of fun we have at our occasional English ceilidhs in Vancouver BC. What dances are done here? I don't really know - I just play the melodeon in the (up to)10-piece band, Jiggery Pokery. Half the band are of English extraction, including our caller, Betty Armstrong, who comes from South Shields (which may account for the fact that many people here can't understand her!). The dances and the tunes seem to have a quite loose association - as long as it's a 16, 32 or 48 bar jig, reel or whatever, it rarely seems to matter too much - everybody just bounces around and does what Betty tells 'em (if they can understand!) This loose association is amplified by the fact that Betty knows the dances by the dance name, a name which typically means next to nothing to the rest of us - we just know the tune names! As far as I know, our sources are the "usual" ones - records, CD's, tapes and tapes from England, and stuff picked up from Sidmouth, etc. Just in case anyone is interested, JP has a tape and a CD out, both of which contain English dance tunes AND songs - we do concert sets as well and dances. And we'd love to be invited to the Bay area! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Graham J. Baldwin Tel: +1 (604) 322-5476 Vancouver Morris Men Fax: +1 (604) 681-4166 2211 Portside Court, Vancouver, BC E-mail: gbaldwin-AT- info-mine.com CANADA V5P 4T9 URL: http://www.info-mine.com/vmm/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:35:45 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:32:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Gene Murrow <71332.2116-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst To: ECD list Message-ID: <960830013220_71332.2116_GHL116-1-AT- CompuServe.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT What a fun list and great group of people. Wish I had signed up sooner! Regarding tempos, thought this might help: In his "Notes for Musician" at the front of the 1911 Novello edition of the "Country Dance Tunes from the English Dancing Master," Sharp notes: "Metronome figures have been omitted because there is no authority, traditional or otherwise, upon which to compute them; and because, moreover, the tempo must to some extent depend upon the taste and temperament of the performers. MM (half note or dotted quarter for 6/8) = 112 may, perhaps, be given as a general guide." 112 is just a hair faster than our standard Playford tempos today (108 seems to be the average). EFDSS and CDSS dancers in the 30's and 40's danced quite a bit faster, as far as I can tell (based on the famous photos, and being taught by Lily Roberts Conant, May Gadd, and others active in the revival). In the March, 1947, edition of English Dance and Song, EFDSS director Douglas Kennedy summarizes the approach to 20th century performance of the Playford repertory: "The method of performance was quite uniform, with a jolly, springy step and a careful avoidance of anything that might be labelled graceful or aesthetic... quite a large number of these Country dances didn';t really lend themselves to 20th century conditions. The curving figures, danced at high speed, demanded a firm grip on the floor surface. If we encountered a slippery surface we had to have resin on the floor or our pumps. The rubber-soled gym shoe gave a new confidence to the sharp angle turns and the introduction of crepe rubber made us almost careless of any floor surface. Our athletic technique, now firmly established, bore little relation to the style of the old traditional dances which had been ousted by the new [Playford reconstructions]" The style was Sharp's conscious replacement of the "steps" with at least something other than "walking in time to music," and reflected his belief that the country dance was originally a "pure" and "artless" expression of true English folk culture. Regarding novice bands... Sharp's piano arrangements of the core Playford repertory are usually excellent. If a pianist just plays them as written, you get very danceable and interesting arrangements. Indeed, many of today's keyboard players (including Jacqueline Schwab) acknowledge their debt to Sharp's rhythmic and harmonic ideas. Other instrumentalists can learn a bit about harmonizing the tunes by following some of the "inner voices" on the piano score. As Carol has already noted, we did "re-create" the famous Amherst summer school photos. We thought it would be fun and historically useful to do contemporary dances in contemporary style, as she said. David Green took the photos-- as soon as I know about availability I'll post the news. Certainly we'll send a set to CDSS for posterity!! Gene Murrow ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 18:43:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:45:41 -0400 From: mgoodman-AT- albany.net (Mary Beth Goodman) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Welcome Gene -- Nice to have you somewhere where I can read you! Look forward to some interesting discussions in the future. Although I have no scholarly background in ECD, I do, as they say, know what I like! I love almost anything that comes my way although some dances may fall into the "what was that?" category (too similar to other things to be noteworthy). But I'll take a good rant anyday. No ifs and or buts or even shin splints will stop me! My only concern would be in this attitude of "it's good for you" - which someone mentioned I think - the notion that "we should do it" and doing it pointedly rather than in appropriate places. And thought does need to be given to programming in this regard. I don't think for instance, I want to do Mr. Beveridge's followed by a straight out rant..... Mary Beth Goodman recently of Pinewoods Rant til you can't ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 04:44:58 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:43:03 +0000 From: Howard Mitchell Subject: Dance Formats in England (was 'am I in the right place') To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199608301144.MAA07689-AT- zeus.tcp.net.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Alan Winston wrote: >>Does this mean I must throw away the > >1500+ tunes I have........ > Of course not. But I think I detect sarcasm. Well detected. > It appears that the current American ECD style (disregarding Renaissance Faire, > SCA, or other semi-historical recreators) emphasizes the smooth, flowing, > graceful aspect of ECD, usually found in "historical" dances, over the > exuberant aspect usually found in "traditional" dances. I gather that the > situation in England is different. There are events where the smooth style is prevalent but I think there are more events where a mix of dances and styles is present. > By the way, at what kind of non-dancer events do > you play for UK ECD? (You mentioned the PTA. Are these fundraisers, social > events? In large cities? With groups that ordinarily do something else?) > Just curious. I looked back through my diary for 1996. This reflects bookings for two bands, one which can change its spots and be anything from a trio (piano, violin, bass) to a six piece (keyboard, fiddle, melodeon/bazouki/irish pipes, flute/piccolo, guitar/flute/electric bass, melodeon/concertina/bass) and the second a four piece with a leaning towards celtic material (flute, melodeon, guitar, bass). There are lot of organisations who include an annual country dance/ barn dance/ folk dance/ ceilidh - most non-dancers are unaware of the differences and then there are individuals who organise a dance for a particular celebration. The former are usually fundraisers. We have done events for: PTAs, Golf Clubs, Sub-Aqua Clubs, Company Sports and Social Clubs, Church Socials, The National Childbirth Trust, The Scouts, Birthday Parties and Weddings. Weddings seem to be getting more popular, a country dance is seen as means of inviting more than the close friends and family who will have been to the ceremony and reception and as being applicable to all ages. We have an arrangement with a number of hotels who offer our services as part of a complete package and unexpectedly we get repeat bookings from weddings where for example one of the guests is getting married in the near future. The venues vary from small village halls to school halls (even gymnasia where the sound can be terrible) to town halls and even marquees. We live and operate in the NW of England south of Manchester so the event are split between the city and surrounding suburban and rural communities. This wasn't intended as an advertisement, I think you'll find that most UK bands operate like this. Graham Baldwin wrote: > > Is that Vancouver, WA or Vancouver BC? I can only speak for the > latter, which, of course, is not in the U.S. but in Canada. Mea Culpa. I meant Vancouver BC - I could say I meant the North American Continent but that would be just digging the hole deeper. Howard Mitchell ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:12:15 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 10:12:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199608301512.KAA17035-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Our local group, the Central Illinois English Country Dancers, tends to push the tempos a bit. This is largely due to the influence of one of our teachers, Jane Hobgood. My impression is that the average tempo for contras is a little greater than 120 bpm (120 to 128) and the average tempo for ECD is a little less than 120 bpm (say, 115 to 120). There are a few where we deliberately keep they tempo lower, or where the tempo changes and one part will be slower, but mostly we try to keep the tempo as fast as the band can do them well. Our band has only been together as a group for about a year and is composed of many (initially) novice musicians. They have grown alot in the past year, both in size and ability. Thus it may be that they could now do some of the tunes faster than we'd want so we may have to be more conscious of setting appropriate tempos. I recently taught a workshop on ECD at a contra dance weekend in Indiana and several people remarked to me afterwards that they hadn't realised that ECD was so lively or that you could sweat just as much doing ECD as doing contras. This made me feel that I had done my job well, since one of the biggest misconceptions that contra dancers have about ECD (in the U.S.) is that it is stodgy and slow. Yes we try for smooth flowing (graceful?) movement, but these same people enjoy smooth-flowing contra dances and so should, theoretically, enjoy ECD. Of course I enjoy both ECD ans contras and have trouble seeing why everyone doesn't. ;-) Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:16:04 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:15:56 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960830111556.22b8-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT ECD tempi (plural for tempo) is a curious problem and I have no pat, standard answer. I find that each dance has its own particular tempo dependent on any number of factors. These would include, but not be limited to >How well the group knows the dance >How well the dance knows the tune >Point in the event when the dance is formed >Audience (big, little, non-existent) >Purpose of the dance (beyond public performance, group pleasure, personal opportunity--I'm reaching for an ego concept thing but can't find the right term just now) >Fatigue level of the total company: leader, dancers, music >Live versus recorded music (Remember, that many ECD events use some form of recorded music) >How well the leader knows the dance (this should have been above) Some dances are taken too slow for my taste: Lull Me Beyond Thee Hole in the Wall Second part of "Jenny Pluck Pears" Others too fast for my taste: Fandango Greensleeves and Yellow Lace The first part of "Jenny Pluck Pears" And so on (Dr.) John M. Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:44:00 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:40:03 -0700 From: EVANS Nan E Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tempi To: ecd (Return requested) Message-ID: <"06EF932274393001*/c=us/admd= /prmd=or.gov/o=PRD/ou=MSMail/s=EVANS/g=Nan/i=E/"-AT- MHS> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I just have to throw my two bits in on this subject. As a dancer, caller and teacher of both contras and English, the thing that I truly love about English is the variety of movements, forms, tunes, time signatures, place in history and, yes, tempos (although linguistically correct, tempi rolls off my tongue with difficulty) of English country dances. I know that an evening of contras danced at about 120 to 125 (or slightly higher) will leave me and the rest of the dancers in an aerobic and social high that comes with sustaining that pace. But, an evening of good English dancing moves me into an entirely different sphere of ethereal highs - from the rousing pace of Fandango (yes, I probably tend to do this on the fast side, because I like it!); to the lushness of Heidenroslein or Miss De Jersey's Memorial; to the silliness of something like Bryon's Boutade or Kitchen Triad; to the stateliness of Hunsdon House; to the rompiness of Collier's Daughter etc.. And, I will occasionally challenge a contra dancer who states that they don't like English dancing because it is too slow and too boring. I ask them just to come to one of my dances and I promise them that they will be sweating by the break! George Forbes' list of factors to consider when setting tempos was great. But, I have a completely unscientific addition - how fast or slow do I like to dance the dance and how do I what the energy of the dance and the evening to flow. I learned something fascinating this summer about tempos at Mendocino. I called Hudson Barn at camper's night with Jacqueline Schwab on the dance floor. I like Hudson Barn as a driving, rather brisk, mesmerizing dance. A friend who knows the Scottish song "Dance to Your Daddy", which is the tune for the dance, sings it almost breathlessly fast so that it sort of spills over itself. In talking with Jacqueline the next day, she told me about her image of the dance was a dreamy and rather "new age-like" - and very much slower - but also mesmerizing experience. Jacqueline had given the dance community the wonderful gift of Hudson Barn and as it took life in our separate communities it grew and changed. Clearly, neither way is in itself right - they are different and wonderful each in their own way. I will probably continue to teach Hudson Barn as a driving dance, but I will also teach it on other occasions more like Jacqueline originally envisioned it - dreamlike. And, I will cherish both ways and feel especially gifted to know that there are several emotional and dance experiences that I can have from just that one dance! So, let the tempi flow - or tempos fugit! Nan Evans Portland Oregon ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:53:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 14:53:23 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Tempi To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Message-ID: <960830145323.17b4-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Thanks, but the name's been "John" Forbes for a very long time. Have you not tried "Sir Foplin's Air(s?)" I'm not sure who is supposed to supply the snuff! jmf/Baker U ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:24:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 23:24:21 -0800 (PST) From: meier-AT- SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <009A7A52.D68766C4.9-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT From: MX%"ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" 30-AUG-1996 09:16:15.32 To: MX%"ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU" CC: Subj: Re: Tempo, Sharp, Amherst >From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU >Sender: owner-ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU >ECD tempi (plural for tempo) is a curious problem and I have no pat, standard >answer. I find that each dance has its own particular tempo dependent on any >number of factors. These would include, but not be limited to > >How well the group knows the dance > >How well the dance knows the tune > >Point in the event when the dance is formed > >Audience (big, little, non-existent) > >Purpose of the dance (beyond public performance, group pleasure, > personal opportunity--I'm reaching for an ego concept thing but > can't find the right term just now) > >Fatigue level of the total company: leader, dancers, music > >Live versus recorded music (Remember, that many ECD events use > some form of recorded music) > >How well the leader knows the dance (this should have been above) Affecting all of the above from the distance of ages past are the steps originally used, and the answers to all the above questions as they would have been given when the dance was originally written. For instance, in one of the examples you gave below, >Some dances are taken too slow for my taste: > > Lull Me Beyond Thee > Hole in the Wall ---------------- > Second part of "Jenny Pluck Pears" My understanding (and anyone out there who knows differently, please correct me) is that Hole in the Wall was originally done with a minuet step, which certainly makes it Quite Challenging Enough at That Speed, Thank You for feet not long tutored in Baroque stepping. Such was our group's experience, at any rate. Perhaps similar things are true of other too fast/too slow dances. Vanessa Schnatmeier =============================================================================== Vanessa Schnatmeier MEIER-AT- SSRL750.BITNET or MEIER-AT- SSRL01.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 16:59:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 19:56:53 -0400 From: The Dupres Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Tempos To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BB9776.A7CD3800-AT- dupre.nerc.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Good evening, all! To John Forbes' list please add a critical parameter: > The figures of the dance As Gene Murrow suggested in his English dance leadership week last year at Pinewoods, find the most tempo-dependent figure in the dance and set the tempo by that figure. As an example (and pet peeve of mine), I really dislike rushed setting - setting loses energy, spring and athleticism when the tempo is too fast. So I would choose a tempo for a dance with setting based to a large extent on the existence of that figure. (Not surprisingly, I think balancing in contra dances has lost its power and rhythmicity (such a word?) because modern contra dance tempos are too fast to balance to, as I learned to balance in the late 70s). And a quick note to Nan: "Collier's Daughter" rompy?! What different experiences we all have of these dances! (either that, or how differently we all use the English language!) To me, Collier's Daughter is mesmerizing and driving, but I'd never call it rompy, quite the contrary. What a surprise! Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com