Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 06:35:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 08:35:48 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960401083548.32c6-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Using pictures of dancing occasions to accurately determine practices of the given period is highly questionable. Artists, as their first goal, try to make a pretty picture, or a parody, or a satire. Use them if you must, but they are not generally looked upon with great trust! Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 07:53:32 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 10:52:59 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 1 Apr 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > . . . snip . . . snip . . . Artists, as their first goal, try > to make a pretty picture, or a parody, or a satire. Use them if you must, > but they are not generally looked upon with great trust! Artists, it seems to me, may legitimately have many different goals, which may or may not include accurate or truthful representation of objects or events in their artwork. The viewer usually has the burden of making a judgement about the usefulness of such evidence for his (her) purpose, which may sometimes be determined with fair certainty from other evidence which is more readily determined to be accurate. For example, sometimes flowers are depicted with an accuracy more typical of scientific illustration, and sometimes they are created entirely from the imagination, with a whole range in between. In the Metropolitan Muesum of Art in NYC there are two views of the Piazza San Marco in Venice juxtaposed which are both fairly literal representations of the actual scene, but the number of windows in the campanile, in both cases inambiguously countable, is not the same for these two pictures. However, the fact that one thing may be accurate or inaccurate may not be a useful indicator of the accuracy of some other thing in the same artwork. The interest and knowledge of the artist, as well as the artist's purpose in the particular work, may all have an influence on the kind of detail rendered. In addition, I feel that it is reasonable to suppose that the folks of the times about which we seek more information also had their controversies and disagreements, as well as their regional differences, so to say something like "in England in the 18th century they did such & such so & so" is about as accurate as to say "in the USA in the 20th century English Country Dance means Cecil Sharp's Playford reconstructions." The dance manuals themselves give ample testimony to the controversies, mistakes, and evolution that were ongoing in the period that gave us Playford and his successors. To me, it makes no more sense to label moves by centuries than by names that we associate with the moves for some tenuous connection to their introduction into current dance terminology. Just as in the dance itself, in the historical reconstruction of earlier dances we are bound to make mistakes. The best we can do is to make them gracefully. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 11:20:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 14:20:10 -0500 (EST) From: "David R. Woolf" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Alasdair Fraser, Jac Schwab in Atlanta To: ECD list , Ray Campagnoli , Bryan Walls , "Leslie H. Scott" , Sid Hetzler , Tim Cape <74217.261-AT- compuserve.com>, Les Scott Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT * * * SPECIAL ATLANTA EVENTS IN APRIL * * * English dance with music by Jacqueline Schwab Tuesday, April 23 at 7:00 pm Westchester School - 758 Scott Blvd, Decatur Teaching by Ginger Pyron and David Woolf $7 Sponsored by Engish Country Dance Atlanta More info: 404/351-DANC or dwoolf-AT- emory.edu * * * Alasdair Fraser and Jacqueline Schwab in Concert Wednesday, April 24 at 8:00 pm Westchester School - 758 Scott Blvd, Decatur $15 - cheaper for students, seniors (Note: Tix at the door only, not in advance) Sponsored by Theatre Gael and ECDA More info: 404/876-1138 or dwoolf-AT- emory.edu * * * Music Workshop with Alasdair Fraser (for fiddlers and whoever) Thursday, April 25 from 7:30 until ? Place TBA $15 More info: 404/355-2827 or dwoolf-AT- emory.edu * * * [Note also: Alasdair will be in Greensboro, NC on 4/16 & 4/17. More info: Steve or Sarah Arnett -AT- 912/282-0764.] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ David Woolf Emory Eye Center W - 404/778-4121 Emory University H - 404/355-2827 Atlanta, GA 30322 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 13:53:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 16:49:17 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Ideally, I would hope ECDers would at least follow Sharp when he was older and wiser, and change all siding for dances written before 1900 to that which was used in the 18th century. Even more ideally, it would be nice to think ECDers might know more than one kind of authentic sides! Too idealistic to be real? Julia Sutton On Sun, 31 Mar 1996, David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson wrote: > Just on a logistical level, it seems the most practical thing is for the > caller to teach siding for the dance in one way or the other, to get > agreement from the dancers to do it that way, and then just call it sides or > siding when the dance is being done. Everything else is more of a mouthful, > and, if the dancers don't have advance notice or agreement on the style > before you start dancing, you could be asking for chaos. > > Peggy > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 14:23:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 14:00:15 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A035C.0435F2C0.25-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Julia wrote: Ideally, I would hope ECDers would at least follow Sharp when he was older and wiser, and change all siding for dances written before 1900 to that which was used in the 18th century. Even more ideally, it would be nice to think ECDers might know more than one kind of authentic sides! Too idealistic to be real? What other kinds of authentic sides are there, and from when do they date? (I think we're clear that the 18th century siding to which Julia refers is siding into lines, that is, shoulder to shoulder to shoulder with your partner and fall back into original place.) The only way in which I think any other siding likely to be adopted in modern ECD is if somebody composes a popular new dance that works better with a different siding form. -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 14:57:09 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 16:57:34 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960401165734.3794-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm at work, away from my sources, but isn't there a Shaw dance that uses Sharp siding (in a circle formation, I think) that leads right into a Gypsy in which you follow your left shoulder. I think the figure gives reasonable aesthetic return for the effort. Is it "Bare Necessities"? Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 15:42:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 18:41:26 -0500 From: zorro-AT- netdepot.com (David Marcus & Peggy Lamberson) Subject: Desiding what to call ciding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <199604012343.SAA13389-AT- jupiter.netdepot.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <9603291653.AA25180-AT- utkux.utcc.utk.edu> Er, never mind ... even on April Fool's Day, I don't have it in me to continue ... As a lurker, tho, I'd like to thank everyone for the interesting discussions I've been reading! ===> David <=== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 17:29:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 20:26:35 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT If Shaw wrote it for Sharp's invented siding then certainly use it. I don't know the dance. Julia Sutton On Mon, 1 Apr 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > I'm at work, away from my sources, but isn't there a Shaw dance that uses > Sharp siding (in a circle formation, I think) that leads right into a Gypsy > in which you follow your left shoulder. I think the figure gives reasonable > aesthetic return for the effort. Is it "Bare Necessities"? > > Forbes/Baker University > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 17:36:42 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 20:33:10 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT As I've said, I believe I may have a 16th-century sides. For those who are interested, it's described by Caroso in NOBILTA DI DAME, 1600, just now available in my translation through Dover (1995) in COURTLY DANCE OF THE RENAISSANCE. We have yet to discover if it was used in England; there is some positive evidence. Julia Sutton On Mon, 1 Apr 1996, Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing wrote: > > Julia wrote: > > Ideally, I would hope ECDers would at least follow Sharp when he was > older and wiser, and change all siding for dances written before 1900 to > that which was used in the 18th century. Even more ideally, it would > be nice to think ECDers might know more than one kind of authentic sides! > Too idealistic to be real? > > What other kinds of authentic sides are there, and from when do they date? > > (I think we're clear that the 18th century siding to which Julia refers is > siding into lines, that is, shoulder to shoulder to shoulder with your > partner and fall back into original place.) > > The only way in which I think any other siding likely to be adopted in modern > ECD is if somebody composes a popular new dance that works better with a > different siding form. > > -- Alan > > =============================================================================== > Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU > Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 > Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 > =============================================================================== > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 03:16:55 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 12:16:18 +0100 (BST) From: "E.M. Rushton" Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 1 Apr 1996 FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU wrote: > I'm at work, away from my sources, but isn't there a Shaw dance that uses > Sharp siding (in a circle formation, I think) that leads right into a Gypsy > in which you follow your left shoulder. I think the figure gives reasonable > aesthetic return for the effort. Is it "Bare Necessities"? Pat Shaw wrote a dance called The Round Pond, for a three couple circle. It has the standard introductions slip left and right, siding and arming (with a set and turn single after each half of the movement). He specified Sharp siding for that dance, possibly because of the circle formation. I don't recognize the dance you describe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist! By the way, I was taught Sharp siding as THE way to side, first met Shaw siding in Waters of Holland, when the caller used the term "Pat Shaw siding", which is how I think of it. But when other callers used the term "into line siding", I knew what was meant with out any explanation - so this is the term I use. It is descriptive and doesn't come with any assumptions as to origins or historical accuracy of the move, nor who gets the credit for introducing it to todays dancers. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 03:29:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 06:32:57 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: "authenticity" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Interesting how every once in a while your subscribed lists overlap! >Subject: "authenticity" >Sender: owner-amslist-AT- ucdavis.edu >To: amslist-AT- ucdavis.edu > >For a different 'take' on the historical performance thread, Alex Ross has >an essay (long) in the Sunday NYT (March 31) FILM VIEW column, "In the >Authenticity Game, Only A Few Win". He concentrates on film, but draws >an analogy with historical musical performance in connection with his >discussion of period films, the bulk of his article. > >(QUOTE) ...performers involved in the original-instrument movement have >stored up (sic) instruments exactly duplicating ensembles of Handel's >or Mozart's time, but they are no closer than prior interpreters to a >pure, objective sense of how the music should be shaped, phrased or >timed out (sic). The reason is that the parameters are always changing: >the audience has expectations for the past; the players import conventions >from the present. (END QUOTE) > >Ross's main points: the emphasis on authenticity for contemporary topics; >the clash between 'method' acting and Hollywoodish sets in the '50's; the >craze for overloading the visual details in period films -- "saturation >decorating" (compare "operatic" stagings of Visconti and Zeffirelli) >-- what he calls "coffee-table films"; the clash caused by casting actors >who 'don't have a clue' (Demi Moore, Meg Ryan; Keanu Reeves in _Dangerous >Liaisons_, who is said to wear 'invisible RollerBlades'); the overreliance >on a handful of actors who 'do have a clue'; directorial or writerly need >to skew the retold stories toward slants that satisfy a contemporary sense >of how the story should go. Might be something in there for us to consider with this siding debate. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll dem Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ My Favorite Truth in Photography:Dust spots are always attracted to sky areas ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 06:51:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 08:52:08 -0600 (CST) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: "authenticity" To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960402085208.3794-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Authenticity is in the eye (and ear) of the beholder? ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 07:08:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 10:07:03 -0500 From: RSokoll-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: To Helen Mayo To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960402100701_503763065-AT- mail06> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Helen, If you could give me your snail-mail address, I will send you something that might help you on your "quest." In return, I would like some help with a quest of my own! Thanks, Katrina (Katrina Sokoll) RSokoll-AT- aol.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 15:24:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 15:22:17 -0800 From: laurieb-AT- cirl.uoregon.edu (Laurie Buchanan) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A few years ago I ran across a caller who used the term "Playford siding" for into-line siding. When we talked about it afterward, I found out the caller had never heard of Pat Shaw, but had learned this term in the gender-free ECD community. I am not very familiar with that style and don't know how prevalent the term is there. Later I had occasion to bring this topic up with Colin Hume who said that he has pretty much stopped using the term siding and (I shall quote him here - without permission!): "I get round the problem by not using the word 'siding' at all; I just say 'into line right shoulder to right, then left shoulder to left'. I don't call it 'Pat Shaw siding' because to me that implies that he made it up!" He also said that callers both in the UK and US often say Playford and mean Sharp, but this usage I ran across was the opposite! So, even more confusion. I think it would be great to find a good standard to use, but only for the names of the figures. I don't think it necessary to rewrite dances (although I know some who disagree). Cheers, Laurie --- Laurie Buchanan Eugene, OR ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 23:22:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 02:25:56 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Nonesuch/Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT OK Mike, how do you make it fit? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll dem Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ My Favorite Truth in Photography:Dust spots are always attracted to sky areas ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 00:55:43 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 09:46:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Nonesuch/Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Conversation with last message Emily, I presume that you mean how do I interpret Nonsuch to that length of music rather than how do dancers move to the music. I intend to get some web space and publish my interpretations but this will take a while. Meanwhile, Colin Hume has published his understanding of my dance in his book of Playford dances which he has interpreted (with my permission I hasten to add). What follows is a synopsis rather than a detailed explanation. Main clue - music is 16 bars and all dance movements take 16 bars. Second clue - dance has an entirely regular structure ======================================================================== Up a double and back, up a double and back, set and turn single, set and turn single (1x16) ======================================================================== Duple minor dance done "correctly", ie 1+2, 1+3, 2+3 & 1+4, 2+4, 3+4 & 2+1, 3+1, 4+1 & 3+2, 4+2, 4+3 (7x16) ======================================================================== Side by side right shoulder, side by side left shoulder, set and turn single, set and turn single (1x16) ======================================================================== Whole figure dance. Each person (1M, 1W, 2M, 2W ...4W) in turn uses a double to move into the middle of the set forming a line, each man above his partner, the men facing down and the women facing up. (1x16) ======================================================================== Arming right, arming left, each person "slip" to the left and back, each person slip to the right and back. (1x16) ======================================================================== Whole figure dance. As above, each person uses a double to move back to make the set into two lines again except that they move to their partner's place, ie they are on the wrong side. Same order as before. Same timing as before. From these improper positions a U-shaped grand chain is initiated by the top two people on each side, every one reversing direction when they get to the top of the set, only crossing when they are at the bottom of the set and stopping when they get to their original position. (2x16) ======================================================================== Obviously there's lots more detail but thats the essence of it! Like many of the interpretations published in the Country Dance Book (I hesitate to say Sharp because although he lent his name to the book he wasn't the interpreter for most of them) it is easy to say that the published interpretation is not correct but less easy to say what is correct. In this case I am happy that I have got the structure right but there is room for discussion about what to do in the first 4 bars of the duple minor dance part and how to interpret the slip part. Enjoy. Michael Barraclough ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>Emily L. Ferguson wrote OK Mike, how do you make it fit? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- ---- ************ Man soll dem Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ My Favorite Truth in Photography:Dust spots are always attracted to sky areas ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 08:33:26 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 11:30:54 -0500 From: EngDancer-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Old and Infirm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960403113051_263048287-AT- emout09.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Here is an issue (we don't say "problem" anymore) that has been vexing our social dance for some time: experienced dancers who, mostly because of age, are losing it and not able to recover causing a general breakdown of the set. Before the screams begin, this is a small dance, for a number of reasons (change of hall to a less hospitable floor, change of format, change of band, to name only a few), so that it is almost impossible to dilute these dancers in the whole of the dancers. Also, this is not a performance group, with certain objective criteria, but a social dance. I fully recognize that each one of us (God willing...) will face this: when we are too old (chronology is obviously not the measure here) to dance and what to do about it? And what, if anything, can be done about those dancers in our group who are but are still dancing (badly - to the detriment of the set)? My good friend, Penelope Naumann Lord, who was my first ECD teacher, says that we should make a pact: we should each tell the other when to hang it up. But for many of us, myself included, dancing is more than just something to do on a given night; it is part of our personal definition. Aging is part of our personal destinies (how did I get to be 50 when I was one of the younger ECDers when I started?). This may only be my concern because I am closer to the Grim Reaper (Grim Leaper?) than many on this List, but every venue must be approaching this issue at some time. Any help? Mary Jones Not Getting Any Younger in Amherst, Massachusetts ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 09:35:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 18:25:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Old and Infirm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Conversation <960403113051_263048287-AT- emout09.mail.aol.com> with last message <960403113051_263048287-AT- emout09.mail.aol.com> I suspect the problem is that the reason for the community is "dance" rather than a real community dancing as a "social recreation". The semiotics are quite different. In the former, people have come together to dance and something that gets in the way is an issue - age (old or young), ability, infirmity etc. If it were a natural community who were just doing some dancing because that's the sort of thing natural communities do do then nobody will normally be bothered. Michael Barraclough ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary Jones writes: Here is an issue (we don't say "problem" anymore) that has been vexing our social dance for some time: experienced dancers who, mostly because of age, are losing it and not able to recover causing a general breakdown of the set. Before the screams begin, this is a small dance, for a number of reasons (change of hall to a less hospitable floor, change of format, change of band, to name only a few), so that it is almost impossible to dilute these dancers in the whole of the dancers. Also, this is not a performance group, with certain objective criteria, but a social dance. I fully recognize that each one of us (God willing...) will face this: when we are too old (chronology is obviously not the measure here) to dance and what to do about it? And what, if anything, can be done about those dancers in our group who are but are still dancing (badly - to the detriment of the set)? My good friend, Penelope Naumann Lord, who was my first ECD teacher, says that we should make a pact: we should each tell the other when to hang it up. But for many of us, myself included, dancing is more than just something to do on a given night; it is part of our personal definition. Aging is part of our personal destinies (how did I get to be 50 when I was one of the younger ECDers when I started?). This may only be my concern because I am closer to the Grim Reaper (Grim Leaper?) than many on this List, but every venue must be approaching this issue at some time. Any help? Mary Jones Not Getting Any Younger in Amherst, Massachusetts ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 11:57:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 11:57:21 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: RE: Old and Infirm To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A04DD.2DFFD31E.70-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary wrote: Here is an issue (we don't say "problem" anymore) that has been vexing our social dance for some time: experienced dancers who, mostly because of age, are losing it and not able to recover causing a general breakdown of the set. You perhaps know the joke about the scientific study of how people in different disciplines put out fires? In the first part of the study, the mathematician was presented with a desk on fire. He went outside, filled the wastebasket with water, came back, and put out the fire. In the second part, he was presented with a chair on fire. He put the chair on top of the desk and waited until the desk was on fire. Having reduced the problem to one with a known solution, he stopped. From the strictly dance point of view, this is the same problem as the perpetual beginner, which we've discussed already. (That doesn't mean it has a known solution. I suppose you could throw a bucket of water on them, but it wouldn't be quite as effective. David Kaynor wrote a piece sometime back in which he talked about a particular perpetual beginner at his regular contra dance, a fellow who seems to be developmentally disabled. Kaynor finally concluded that it was worth having him there, even if he never got to be any good.) But for many of us, myself included, dancing is more than just something to do on a given night; it is part of our personal definition. Aging is part of our personal destinies (how did I get to be 50 when I was one of the younger ECDers when I started?). Now we get more complicated. Mike Barraclough observed that this problem wouldn't happen in a natural community, which is true but not, I think, useful. Something that looks a bit like community will grow up around groups with a shared interest, whether that's skiing, surfing, ECD, or the VMS operating system, but that's completely elective, and if a member loses that interest, that member tends to disappear from the community. [Is a college class a community? They're certainly geographically homogeneous, have shared interests and shared experiences -- but they're not there because they live there, and they're going to graduate and go. Anyone who flunks out of school will disappear from the 'community'.] This isn't to say that you can't find and maintain life-long friendships with people from the interest group, which may certainly outlast their memberships in the group. But it isn't full-scale, fates-intertwined, church-supperish, wake-attending community. And I don't think, structurally, that it _can_ be. A social structure built around a dance form that happens one night a week and pulls in people from a geographically diverse area is going to be an interest group, and while it can be quite a friendly one, that's different from a community. [I'm afraid I'm not articulating this with much rigor; I'm expanding on axioms rather than making arguments. Sorry about that.] That said, what do you do about your problem? There is no easy answer, but there are some answers. I'm afraid the most right answer is the most difficult: talk to the people who have difficulties and express your concerns. Is it possible that they haven't noticed they're having trouble? What would help them? (Maybe it would be as simple as giving them the high sign when you're going to be doing a fast or complicated dance, so they can stay out of it.) [It's also possible that they don't think there's a problem at all, in which case you have a harder row to hoe.] Other possibilities, not necessarily foreclosed by taking the first suggestion: adjust the program at your dances so there are more simple dances that your folks can deal with more readily; talk to the other dancers and encourage them to help out the people who are having trouble, and give them advice on how; make a point of partnering the older dancers during difficult dances so you have a better chance of pulling them through; take no special action whatever and hope it will work itself out. I'd be interested to hear what course you eventually decide to take, and how it works out. -- Alan PS: Aging is inevitable (if you live), but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll get past ECD. Jack Shimer was at the BACDS Playford Ball last weekend, and he is still _really_ good. -- APW =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 13:00:10 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 12:57:24 -0800 From: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Nonesuch/Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604032057.MAA14713-AT- phoenix> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Was this reconstruction influenced by any pre-existing reconstructions? It works exactly like the reconstruction that I did (based exclusively on Playford and my own ideas) back in March of 1991, and taught at the SCA 25th-year celebration. The only clear difference is that I use four small slips instead of a double to get people into and out of single file. If the whole thing, including the U-shaped Hey, was independently developed by two reconstructors, this might suggest that it is at least a pretty good theory. Though this does not (of course) constitute actual proof. By the way, may I offer one small correction? >Duple minor dance done "correctly", ie 1+2, 1+3, 2+3 & 1+4, 2+4, 3+4 & >2+1, 3+1, 4+1 & 3+2, 4+2, 4+3 (7x16) This adds up to 9x16. The whole dance is 15x16, breaking down into three parts: 10x16, 2x16, and 3x16. Alex Clark (known in the SCA as Henry of Maldon) cclark-AT- vicon.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 15:45:34 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 00:36:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Nonesuch/Pyewackett To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Conversation <199604032057.MAA14713-AT- phoenix> with last message <199604032057.MAA14713-AT- phoenix> Re Henry Clark's comments - it was all my own work - I have probably been teaching that for about 20 years now. He is of course entirely correct about the number of times through - it doesn't work trying to do real work and respond to the maillist at the same time! Michael Barraclough ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:03:51 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 10:03 -0800 (PST) From: dgilli-AT- slip.net (Dan Gillespie) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Goddesses To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello from West Virginia! I wanted to get some input from more experienced dancers & dance teachers on this list. I have experimented with teaching the dance "Goddesses" in several SCA groups over the last 9 months or so, with rather mixed results. I am using the redaction from Millar's "Elizabethan Country Dances". He cuts much of the separation of the men & women doing the same figure in successive verses...first the men hey & then the women hey, etc. This dance looked at first glance like it should be relatively easy to dance & to teach because it has a repeated chorus & most of the figures are fairly straightforward. After teaching it several times, I am not satisfied with the outcome. Overall, it seems that even at a fairly sedate speed, it is difficult to keep the dance figures in time with the music. The verses need to be finished at exactly the precise time to move into the chorus. Any hints concerning this dance would be much appreciated, especially from anyone who has taught it before. Enjoying the spring weather today while it lasts in Martinsburg WV, Dan Gillespie ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 14:01:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 04 Apr 1996 17:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Goddesses To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604042201.RAA08214-AT- maple.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >Hello from West Virginia! > > I wanted to get some input from more experienced dancers & dance >teachers on this list. I have experimented with teaching the dance >"Goddesses" in several SCA groups over the last 9 months or so, with rather >mixed results. Any >hints concerning this dance would be much appreciated, especially from >anyone who has taught it before. > Enjoying the spring weather today while >it lasts in Martinsburg WV, > Dan Gillespie > > Dan, Is there any chance for you to provide more info on the notation and sources? Kevin M. Cooke Putney, VT kcooke-AT- sover.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 10:50:36 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 11:57:40 -0500 (EST) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Deciding what to call siding To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU, ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To all who are interested in an authentic 16th-c. "sides." In Caroso and Negri are descriptions of approaches and retreats from a partner while turning one's side to him. The term in Italian, "fiancheggiare," related to the English "flank," is applied in these descriptions. For my interpretation of this kind of "sides," see the reprint of my translation of Caroso's NOBILTA by Dover, COURTLY DANCE OF THE RENAISSANCE, 1995, in the section of Labanotation, p. 387. The book is just out at $14.95; its catalogue number is 0-486-28619-3. Caroso and Negri were both owned by British libraries of the time; how valid their styles were for England is a big question, of course; I think the Italian evidence in this case is very strong. Thank you all for your interest. Julia Sutton ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 19:54:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 22:54:11 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Railing Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Italian Influence (was: Deciding what to call siding) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, julia s sutton wrote: > To all who are interested in an authentic 16th-c. "sides." > > In Caroso and Negri are descriptions of approaches and retreats from a > partner while turning one's side to him. The term in Italian, > "fiancheggiare," related to the English "flank," is applied in these > descriptions. For my interpretation of this kind of "sides," see the reprint > of my translation of Caroso's NOBILTA by Dover, COURTLY DANCE OF THE > RENAISSANCE, 1995, in the section of Labanotation, p. 387. > The book is just out at $14.95; its catalogue number is 0-486-28619-3. > > Caroso and Negri were both owned by British libraries of the time; how > valid their styles were for England is a big question, of course; I think > the Italian evidence in this case is very strong. > > Thank you all for your interest. > Julia Sutton > I have long wondered whether the "progressing-siding-arming" sequence of figures in ECD was a direct result of Caroso's influence. If one accepts that advancing and retreating from one's partner is an Italian version of "sides," then an awful lot of Caroso's dances stew down to P-S-A (although he usually uses two verses for sides, a man's solo and a woman's solo). Negri's dances don't follow that pattern. Could the frequency of this sequence of figures in ECD be due to the English reading Il Ballarino and writing or rewriting dances to fit Italian models? --Mary Railing mrailing-AT- intersource.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 18:10:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 21:06:46 -0400 (EDT) From: julia s sutton Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Italian Influence (was: Deciding what to call siding) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU CC: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Your reading of siding as the alternating man's solo and women's solo is incorrect. The principle of alternation here is that used in the galliard and tordion, passo e mezzo, and canaries, but not in the pavan or saltarello types. It is not the siding I'm referring too at all. You need, I think, to rework your understanding of the various structures of 16th-c. Italian dance. See, for ex., my article on Triple Pavans in the periodical Early Music. The progression of which you speak seems to have developed in country dances earlier than Caroso and Negri. The first time we have it in writing (1651), does not mean that's when it first occurred. Untangling the history of English country dance before 1651 has a lot of work ahead of it, including the possible influence of Italian dances of the 15th c. Julia Sutton On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, Mary Railing wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 Apr 1996, julia s sutton wrote: > > > To all who are interested in an authentic 16th-c. "sides." > > > > In Caroso and Negri are descriptions of approaches and retreats from a > > partner while turning one's side to him. The term in Italian, > > "fiancheggiare," related to the English "flank," is applied in these > > descriptions. For my interpretation of this kind of "sides," see the reprint > > of my translation of Caroso's NOBILTA by Dover, COURTLY DANCE OF THE > > RENAISSANCE, 1995, in the section of Labanotation, p. 387. > > The book is just out at $14.95; its catalogue number is 0-486-28619-3. > > > > Caroso and Negri were both owned by British libraries of the time; how > > valid their styles were for England is a big question, of course; I think > > the Italian evidence in this case is very strong. > > > > Thank you all for your interest. > > Julia Sutton > > > > I have long wondered whether the "progressing-siding-arming" sequence of > figures in ECD was a direct result of Caroso's influence. If one accepts > that advancing and retreating from one's partner is an Italian version of > "sides," then an awful lot of Caroso's dances stew down to P-S-A (although > he usually uses two verses for sides, a man's solo and a woman's solo). > Negri's dances don't follow that pattern. Could the frequency of this > sequence of figures in ECD be due to the English reading Il Ballarino and > writing or rewriting dances to fit Italian models? > > --Mary Railing > mrailing-AT- intersource.com > ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 04:38:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 07:37:27 -0400 From: EngDancer-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960409073725_371950086-AT- mail06> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To All: I have been invited, and have accepted, to call an English dance for a birthday party for about 75 adults. To my knowledge, the honoree wants an English dance but no one has done any before. What to call? If anyone has ANY suggestions, PLEASE, let me know. The time is evening from about 8 - 10:30. While I have quite a few easy dances that I have taught/lead for some time, that is obviously for a group of people who not only want to be there doing ECD but have paid to do it. A party is a whole different deal and there's nothing worse than having a group of people who are at a party not having a good time. The biggest reason for wanting the program to leave most everyone happy, is that this might tweak the curiosity of some of these party-goers to try our local English dance which is shrinking alarmingly (the pay is good too). So, again, HELP, please. Mary Jones Amherst, MA ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 06:51:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 08:50:04 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: RE: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960409085004.45c1-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT English dance does not always equal Playford. There are any number of easier items from the 18th century and beyond. Barbara Harding has used an easy version of "Haste to the Wedding" for a number of years. Also, the letters ECD can stand for "English Community Dances," so give the old "Community Dances Manual" a look. Sharp's Country Dance Book, Part #1 is worth checking out. You didn't say whether you're using live or recorded music so It's hard to say much there. You might want to check with Barbara Harding at(703) 437-4232 or -3615. Her address is P.O. Box 236, Herndon, VA 22070. Good Luck John Forbes/Baker University Library ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 07:07:31 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:07:34 -0500 From: Jonathan Sivier Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604091407.AA29961-AT- ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary Jones (EngDancer-AT- aol.com) writes: >I have been invited, and have accepted, to call an English dance for a >birthday party for about 75 adults. To my knowledge, the honoree wants an >English dance but no one has done any before. What to call? One dance I ccan definitely recommend is Galopede. It can, of course, be done to the tune Galopede (in Barnes), but any 32 bar tune will do. You didn't say if there would be a band or you will be using tapes. Galopede is very simple and fun for dancers and non-dancers alike. I've called it for elementary school kids, college freshmen and adults at parties. Another good one, especially if you have a few 'ringers', is Rufty Tufty. We did this for a demo at a Dickens' Walk last December and were able to get members of the audience to join in after we had done it once. I've also done Hole In The Wall at a party where the hostess wanted an English dance, but none of the other guests had ever done any. I hope this is helpful. Jonathan ------------------------------------------------------------------- | Jonathan Sivier | Ballo ergo sum. | | j-sivier-AT- uiuc.edu | (I dance therefore I am.) | | Flight Simulation Lab | - des Cartwright | | Beckman Institute | | | 405 N. Mathews | SWMDG - Single White Male | | Urbana, IL 61801 | Dance Gypsy | | Work: 217/244-1923 | | | Home: 217/359-8225 | Have shoes, will dance. | ------------------------------------------------------------------- ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 07:43:52 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 10:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Tue, 9 Apr 1996 EngDancer-AT- aol.com wrote: > To All: > > I have been invited, and have accepted, to call an English dance for a > birthday party for about 75 adults. To my knowledge, the honoree wants an > English dance but no one has done any before. What to call? > > If anyone has ANY suggestions, PLEASE, let me know. The time is evening from > about 8 - 10:30. While I have quite a few easy dances that I have [snip] > > Mary Jones > Amherst, MA Mary, do you mean one individual dance or one evening of dance from 8 to 10:30? If the latter, then look for gradual skill-building elements in the early dances to lead up to somewhat less-trivial dances later on. If the former, and they really have no experience at English dance whatsoever, they also have no particular expectation about the length of the walk-through. In other words, they would probably appreciate more teaching rather than be turned off by it. One technique that I think is effective is to teach a little bit, then dance that much to the music, then teach a bit more, then dance that, then combine them from the beginning, then teach some more, etc. If you don't have live music, then a CD player with a remote could be very helpful for that, but that limits the musical sources somewhat more than tape. If the music is live brought in by you, get the best they can afford... if they provide it, make sure they're solid. I would try to build skills toward some dance that is not too dificult but is really neat & satisfying, even if it doesn't go perfectly... glorious music should help a lot. Some of the dances that come to mind are: "Playford" Take a Dance Indian Queen Faithless Nancy Dawson Mulberry Garden Knole Park Freeford Gardens Nottingham Swing "Real neat" dances that you might aim for: St. Margaret's Hill A Girl's Best Friend An Enchanted Place depending on how much skill seems to develop as things go on. My dance sources are not at my fingertips, so this is a rather rough selection. Interested to know what you come up with & how it goes. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 07:54:59 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 10:54:50 -0400 (EDT) From: kcooke-AT- sover.net (Kevin M. Cooke) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Mother Mary's Party Dances To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604091454.KAA03827-AT- maple.sover.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear Mary, If you can give the group a mini-lesson, a la the LSSE class you teach, but in five minutes, you should be able to get everyone hooked right away. Go for the really simple moves that are dreamy (Mother Mary's Magic Move #I:Set, turn single, turn double). You will probably have overcome one of the first obstacles to beginners: I suspect that everyone will be dancing with their partner, and not rotating as much as at the scheduled dances. I also suspect that you will be calling to live music, and the big plus of the music in our area is that it makes the dance so very much more enjoyable and interactive. Teach them a poussette and you can do Knole Park. You're the best teacher in the world for poussettes. Stay away from Step Stately(wink,wink,nod,nod). Teach them casting and you can do Hole In The Wall, and Auretti's Dutch Skipper. Try Rufty Tufty. See previous notes on siding (WINK,WINK,NOD,NOD,FALL OVER). Gud Luck! Kevin M. Cooke Putney, VT kcooke-AT- sover.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 12:31:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 12:31:37 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A0998.F56689C4.4-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Mary asked about dances for a group of people who've never done English before. I forget who said that if they haven't done this stuff before, they don't know how long walkthroughs should be, and will be grateful for more teaching. I emphatically disagree with that -- they didn't come to a party to stand around and listen to you, and if you try to make them do it for too long, they'll wander off or some will just talk to each other and ignore you, which will frustrate both you and anybody else who's trying to hear you. Get them moving to music as soon as possible. Some questions arise: How old are they, and what kind of shape are they in? Some very simple dances can be a lot of fun, but they tend to be very bouncy ones. Someone already mentioned Galopede. Roger de Coverly (which is in the Community Dances Manuals, curiously enough, as the Virginia Reel) is another one. You don't want to wear them out on the first dance. How many are there? (I think you said 75.) If there are a lot of people there, you probably want to avoid figures that may take a lot of individual fixing, since you can't be everywhere at once and you you're the only one who knows anything. More specifically, watch out for the hey for three unless you've had a lot of practice and good luck teaching it to beginners. (This rules out Black Nag, Jack's Maggot, and The Pursuit, all of which might otherwise be suitable dances at some point in the evening.) You may want to think twice about any small-set dance if you have so many people it will be hard to keep track of them all. Have they done other dancing? Do they have any idea about counts in music? Can you say "polka step" or "waltz step" and have something useful happen? This also has implications for stuff out of the CDM, a lot of which uses polka step. How much have they had to drink? (I have experienced the _horror_ of dancing the contra "Lost in Space" in a group of contra-neophyte, tired, drunken morris dancers. I was one of the two dancers with any clue what was going on, and it didn't seem to be much fun for anybody. Cut your suit to fit your cloth; if higher brain function isn't available, don't ask them to do anything that involves counting.) Some specific suggestions, which you'll have to adjust in light of the questions above: 1) Bring a few "ringers" from your regular dance. This way you can have people to demonstrate anything you need demonstrated, and also pull in wallflowers. 2) Do a Grand March. The only skill this takes is "follow the leader", so you can start it almost immediately. Ringers are helpful here if you want to do figures where couples go in different directions. 3) While a dance is running, don't stop calling too early. This may mean you call the whole way through. You can run some of the dances longer than you might for experienced dancers, who'd get bored sooner, but keep taking the temperature of the crowd. You don't want to frustrate people by stopping just when they're finally getting it, but you don't want to bore those who are faster to pick it up either. 4) Break up your set dances with the occasional _brief_ waltz or polka. Nobody has to dance them, you don't have to teach, and it gives those who need it a chance to catch their breaths without destroying the momentum of the dance. This will also give you a clue about how many know how to waltz or polka, which can affect your choice of dances later. 5) Useful CDM dances: Galopede Virginia Reel/Roger de Coverly Durham Reel Three Meet Bonnets So Blue La Russe Quadrille Nottingham Swing 6) Useful other dances Hole in the Wall (but watch the tempo) Childgrove Dressed Ship or Indian Queen C. Hume's Indian Princess (circle mixer) The Bishop Well Hall Come, Let's Be Merry Knole Park Faithless Nancy Dawson Margaret's Waltz Duke of Kent's Waltz Northdown Waltz Heidenroslein (later in the evening) Young Widow 7) Dances to Avoid The Valentine's Day Massacre Mr. Ganiford's Maggot Parsons' Farewell Good luck, and let us know how it went! -- Alan =============================================================================== Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 =============================================================================== ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 13:26:23 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:23:26 +0100 From: Jerry Fox Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <96Apr9.212113bst.487864-AT- oveja.u-net.net> (1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > I have been invited, and have accepted, to call an English dance for a > birthday party for about 75 adults. To my knowledge, the honoree wants an > English dance but no one has done any before. What to call? > > Mary Jones > Amherst, MA Looking at my copy of "swing partners" (Sibyl Clark and Mary Evans, Novello 1964) and thinking of the dances I do for total beginners, how about some of these (filtering out the American dances since you were asked for English!) Any simple circle dance: including circle left (in a big circle), turn partner, chasse (sashay?) to centre and back, swing partner. Sicilian circle - this is a make-it-up-on-the-day dance, two facing two in a big circle: elements from; circle left, right; star left and right, forward & back, pass on, ladies chain, galop across and back... Cumberland Square - square set: heads galop and back, sides ditto; heads star l&r, sides ditto; heads basket, sides ditto, all circle left, promenade home. Cicle Waltz - big circle: balance in,out, pass left hand lady across in front of you to your right, repeat 3 more times. Keep this girl: sway in, out, spin; repeat. Sidestep in, out, waltz on. One or two couple dances: eg Gay Gordons, Veleta, pat-a-cake polka Blaydon Races - big circle, to centre and back twice, ballroom hold, two sidesteps in & out, quick dance around. Promenade partners, part way through the gent goes forward to next girl, balance & swing. Preferably with the tune of that name. Circassian Circle (always my own last dance): big circle, f & b to centre twice. THen just the ladies, clap one in the centre; then the gents: back to partner *or* (callers choice or call ad lib) to girl on the left. Swing, promenade. My ideas on this are that each dance builds on figures done in the earlier dances, as far as possible. I reckon to collect the sets, walk through once or twice without music, play music & call as much as necessary (often all the way through the every dance!). Sometimes it's necessary to 'kill' a dance abruptly if the dancers get totally lost; a prearranged signal to the band, such as finger across throat, is useful for *stop this instant!* :-) Live music is always better than records, both for presentation and also for flexibility. Lately I've tried copying tracks from my records onto short, tailored cassette tapes, one tune per side; easy and *quick* to find. Oh, one more thing: if the dancers have never danced before (often the case), I *never* go for style other than to keep everyone doing the same thing at the same time. They are, after all, there to enjoy themselves, *not* to learn how to do ECD "correctly". Jerry Fox, Monmouth, Wales ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 13:28:07 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:19:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Barraclough Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; X-MAPIextension=".TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: Conversation <009A0998.F56689C4.4-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> with last message <009A0998.F56689C4.4-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Wow This correspondence clearly shows the difference between the US and the UK. As someone who has called for non-dancers for about 20 years I would rate even these suggestions for a beginners dance programme as far too difficult! Most callers in the UK wouldn't even dream of doing a duple minor dance with a 'one night stand'. Someone earlier raised the issue of how you told someone that they had got too old to dance and that they should stop because they were spoiling the dance for everyone else. I raised the issue of the expectations of natural communities vis-a-vis 'un-natural' communities like dance groups. Without knowing the community (they might be teetotal) its difficult to provide specific advice but I would say that the following guidelines won't go far wrong: o demonstrate on the floor, its clearer and you can usually get a good laugh from it o chose very simple dances, they have come to enjoy themselves not spend hours walking through something o keep calling as long as you need to but cut it as quick as you can - they haven't come to hear you! o if there is alchol available then do not assume that you can build the program up, mental coherence will decline after a while o don't assume that you can build the programme up - many of those present may not pluck up the courage to come on the floor until a)you have already got more difficult and b)they have had enough alchol to give them the necessary courage o remember, the worst callers for non-dancers are generally those who call for dance clubs o vary the pace, vary the rhythm, use some change partner dances (do you use them in the US?) o chose dances which provide 'recovery time', ie time to sort out the mess and be in the right place at the start of the next time through o remember, going 'wrong' in a dance club is often considered a sin, going 'wrong' with beginners is usually considered 'fun' Regards - Michael Barraclough ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary asked about dances for a group of people who've never done English before. I forget who said that if they haven't done this stuff before, they don't know how long walkthroughs should be, and will be grateful for more teaching. I emphatically disagree with that -- they didn't come to a party to stand around and listen to you, and if you try to make them do it for too long, they'll wander off or some will just talk to each other and ignore you, which will frustrate both you and anybody else who's trying to hear you. Get them moving to music as soon as possible. Some questions arise: How old are they, and what kind of shape are they in? Some very simple dances can be a lot of fun, but they tend to be very bouncy ones. Someone already mentioned Galopede. Roger de Coverly (which is in the Community Dances Manuals, curiously enough, as the Virginia Reel) is another one. You don't want to wear them out on the first dance. How many are there? (I think you said 75.) If there are a lot of people there, you probably want to avoid figures that may take a lot of individual fixing, since you can't be everywhere at once and you you're the only one who knows anything. More specifically, watch out for the hey for three unless you've had a lot of practice and good luck teaching it to beginners. (This rules out Black Nag, Jack's Maggot, and The Pursuit, all of which might otherwise be suitable dances at some point in the evening.) You may want to think twice about any small-set dance if you have so many people it will be hard to keep track of them all. Have they done other dancing? Do they have any idea about counts in music? Can you say "polka step" or "waltz step" and have something useful happen? This also has implications for stuff out of the CDM, a lot of which uses polka step. How much have they had to drink? (I have experienced the _horror_ of dancing the contra "Lost in Space" in a group of contra-neophyte, tired, drunken morris dancers. I was one of the two dancers with any clue what was going on, and it didn't seem to be much fun for anybody. Cut your suit to fit your cloth; if higher brain function isn't available, don't ask them to do anything that involves counting.) Some specific suggestions, which you'll have to adjust in light of the questions above: 1) Bring a few "ringers" from your regular dance. This way you can have people to demonstrate anything you need demonstrated, and also pull in wallflowers. 2) Do a Grand March. The only skill this takes is "follow the leader", so you can start it almost immediately. Ringers are helpful here if you want to do figures where couples go in different directions. 3) While a dance is running, don't stop calling too early. This may mean you call the whole way through. You can run some of the dances longer than you might for experienced dancers, who'd get bored sooner, but keep taking the temperature of the crowd. You don't want to frustrate people by stopping just when they're finally getting it, but you don't want to bore those who are faster to pick it up either. 4) Break up your set dances with the occasional _brief_ waltz or polka. Nobody has to dance them, you don't have to teach, and it gives those who need it a chance to catch their breaths without destroying the momentum of the dance. This will also give you a clue about how many know how to waltz or polka, which can affect your choice of dances later. 5) Useful CDM dances: Galopede Virginia Reel/Roger de Coverly Durham Reel Three Meet Bonnets So Blue La Russe Quadrille Nottingham Swing 6) Useful other dances Hole in the Wall (but watch the tempo) Childgrove Dressed Ship or Indian Queen C. Hume's Indian Princess (circle mixer) The Bishop Well Hall Come, Let's Be Merry Knole Park Faithless Nancy Dawson Margaret's Waltz Duke of Kent's Waltz Northdown Waltz Heidenroslein (later in the evening) Young Widow 7) Dances to Avoid The Valentine's Day Massacre Mr. Ganiford's Maggot Parsons' Farewell Good luck, and let us know how it went! -- Alan ======================================================================== ======= Alan Winston --- WINSTON-AT- SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 415/926-3056 Physical mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 69, PO BOX 4349, STANFORD, CA 94309-0210 ======================================================================== ======= ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 19:10:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 22:09:27 -0400 From: EngDancer-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960409220849_466212897-AT- emout07.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT To All Who Have Responded To My Plea: Thank you!!!!! I have a list of 50 dances and a plethora of good suggestions and ideas spanning the continents. Wow! The party is on April 26th and will have live music - musicians that I have worked with before and liked. Everyone has said that the real goal is to have fun while enjoying the wonderful music and the exhilaration of moving to it - and that's what I hope we do. I also have another even more selfish reason for wanting to hear as many ideas along this line as you are willing to give: I am going to teach at a Christmas family week this year and I think that most of the dancers - big and little - will not have done much English before. I really think that the early exposures a person has to a kind of dance sets the mental tone for that person from there on out. If he/she finds it boring or tedious, that person is really lost 'forever'. But if it is light and fun, then down the dance road, that person may welcome the detailed teaching of complicated or tricky dances. However, this is certainly preaching to the converted... I will let you all know how the party went (it's beginning to sound like the event of the year here in Amherst, rivalling the Amherst Assembly which I hope that each of you are considering attending - especially you men - so that I can get in as a single woman). Again, thanks so much. You are each an invaluable source of experience, knowledge and friendship. So when are you coming to Amherst??? Cheer- Mary (Pay her and she'll call a dance or the dog) Jones Amherst, MA 10 Pleasant Court, Amherst, MA 01002-1513 (413) 549-8159 For those who want to shower her with gifts and trinkets of all kinds. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 19:17:21 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 22:16:09 -0400 From: BILLQS-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960409221414_188023619-AT- mail02.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Good luck with your party. I have a few suggestions for dances you might try. These are all in the old Playford style of P-S-A and I would also stick to dances with just one chorus. Here's my list: For two couples: Rufty Tufty Heart's Ease For three couples: Upon a Summer's Day Jenny Pluck Pears You might even want to throw in Sellinger's Round. I've had good experience teaching these dances spur of the moment to SCA'ers at revels (many of whom have been imbibing.) Bill Street William Redcape ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 01:27:30 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 09:27:24 -0300 (BST) From: Rhod Davies Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9604100827.AA09823-AT- amu4.cs.man.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Winston <- SSRL Central Computing > writes: Writes a lot of sensible stuff about chosing the right dance for a beginners party, and says.. Alan> If there are a lot of people there, you probably want to Alan> avoid figures that may take a lot of individual fixing, Alan> since you can't be everywhere at once and you you're the Alan> only one who knows anything. More specifically, watch out Alan> for the hey for three unless you've had a lot of practice Alan> and good luck teaching it to beginners. (This rules out Alan> Black Nag, Jack's Maggot, and The Pursuit, all of which Alan> might otherwise be suitable dances at some point in the Alan> evening.) This I disagree with a little. Having a lot of experience calling for beginners or near beginners at one night events, I have to say that Black Nag is a *great* dance to do with beginners. I regularly call it with absolute beginners. As well as being fun it is pretty forgiving since every one gets back to their own places for each part. The heys (or reels) *are* the most difficult part, but so long as you are not up-tight about people getting them correct, show them the correct way to do it and point out that whatever happens, at the end of the reel they should be back where they started, things always work out somehow. It is a particularly good dance if you have a live band who enjoy hamming it up a bit. One of the bands I work with uses different breaks for the lead up a double each time through (we do it several times without stopping): the silent movie monster break, the Magic Roundabout break, the Adams Family break, the list is endless and they like surprising me with new ones. Another good playford dance for beginners is Halfe Hannikin which we were discussing on this list recently. Then there is Jenny Pluck Pears and the Geud Man of Ballangigh and My Lord Byrons Maggot also work well if you have a good bunch who catch on quickly. Having said that Playford dances are not often done with beginners at dances in England. Much more common are the non Playford English country dances (and those of mixed or borrowed tradition) for example, Nottingham Swing, Cumberland Square Eight, Drops of Brandy, Bridge of Athlone etc, etc, etc. I also enjoy doing the Horses Brawl from the Orchesography (actually a version of the Montarde Bransle to the tune of the Bransle de Chevaux). Rhod ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 02:21:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 02:19:03 -0700 From: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: A Party Program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604100919.CAA03228-AT- phoenix> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A few more good Playford dances for beginners: Gathering Peascods (make sure that there are no more than six couples to a circle) Fine Companion New Boe Peep Alex Clark cclark-AT- vicon.net ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 08:42:47 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 11:42:46 -0400 From: renee-AT- ai.mit.edu (Renee Camus) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: A party program To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604101542.LAA10998-AT- guppy.ai.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hi. I hope it's not too late to reply to this string. There were already a number of suggestions, but none of them included the dance that jumped screamingly into my mind: Juice of Barley. So I thought I'd mention it. Also, WellHall might be good, too. Also Rhod Davies says: >This I disagree with a little. Having a lot of experience calling for >beginners or near beginners at one night events, I have to say that >Black Nag is a *great* dance to do with beginners. I regularly call it >with absolute beginners. As well as being fun it is pretty forgiving >since every one gets back to their own places for each part. I remember Black Nag as being the first ECD I ever learned. It was a while ago, so I may be wrong, but I think so. I was eight years old at the time, if that's any indication of it being a good dance for beginners. Good Luck! Renee Camus ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 22:45:41 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 01:45:11 -0400 From: BILLQS-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Goddesses To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960411014508_269143369-AT- mail02.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Hello and Greetings to another person teaching ECD in the SCA! I've been teaching Goddesses regularly for about the last year in my area, with pretty good success. You are correct in saying that timing is very close in the dance, although the only really difficult time we have had is on the last verse where everyone Heys. It's been tough getting people back to place for the last casting in the chorus. That aside, the dancers I have taught it to really enjoy it, and it comes up pretty often on the request list. I'm not familiar with the Millar version of the dance. The original in Playford, however is very straightforward (for a change), you might want to go back to it and see what changes Millar might have made. The 1651 version does list it as "For as many as Will", however, and I've only successfully seen it done as a longways dance for 4 couples. Hope this helps. Happy Dancing William Redcape Bill Street ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 14:29:19 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 16:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: Sally Ann Denmead Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Food at Pinewoods (No dance content) To: Country Dance List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm probably gonna be sorry I did this, but here goes... Hi, y'all. I'm the head cook at Pinewoods this summer and I'm (ulp!) soliciting input as I construct the menu and start to structure the kitchen operation. So, if anybody out there (who's been to camp and eaten things and means to come back and do it again) wants to give me the benefit of their opinion, why, I'd be downright grateful. I'm particularly interested in two categories. The first is pet peeves (no hibiscus tea, too many chocolate chip cookies and not enough gingersnaps, always Indian and never Thai curries, that kind of thing.) The second is dishes which you remember fondly. (That Boar's Head, say.) Budgetary, time, and labor constraints being what they are, I can't promise to put every suggestion into practice, alas. But I'll be interested to hear all of it. Please send it to me, not the list: gts4-AT- metgate.metro.org And it's helpful if you DON"T include this message in your reply. Thank You Not Sally Denmead, just an anonymous cook using her email. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:40:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 06:43:43 -0400 From: The Dupres Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Further Views on Party Dances To: "'ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu'" Message-ID: <01BB2843.1AD1D660-AT- dupre.nerc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I love teaching beginners! I love one night stands (shame on any of you = who even had a wisp of a prurient thought!)! I love the looks on faces = of people at parties who have just discovered that yes, they can dance, = and that yes, indeed, they're doing the right thing at the right time! = I love the silly things you can expect beginners to do (like the way = they often giggle lasciviously when you tell them that the name of this = figure is "strip the willow") and the way they get all excited about the = Virginia Reel because thank God, finally it's a dance they've seen = somewhere before! =20 As you may be able to tell, I have very fervent views about teaching = beginners and partygoers. I presume that we're all referring to = dance/party events at which every single person may be new to = traditional dancing, they're all there to have a great, sociable time = with each other, and they're not out to make an avocation of this = dancing thing. I agree with nearly everything Mike Barraclough said = about party dances and disagree with some of the specific dance = suggestions offered by others. A dance should be quickly taught - what = better than Sellenger's Round to get everyone moving with almost no = words. Be part of the circle and start slipping - they'll all move too. = Stop for a second and show the set and turn single (for a party does it = matter whether they set left or right or which way they turn single - of = course not!). Find efficient ways to describe figures - when I call for = a party, I usually call a "turn single" as a "whirl around" because = whirling around is already in the beginner's vocabulary of body = movement. Sellenger's Round is a great communal dance with a lively = tune and the dancers can look around and copy what everyone else is = doing. =20 Black Nag is a terrific party dance but for much different reasons than = Sellenger's Round is - it offers such interesting figures, and the music = seems to be irresistible. Inevitably, when I include it in a party = program, the crowd calls for encores and ask for it again later in the = evening. Beginners are very proud of themselves for mastering what = seems to be a complicated dance. However, I admit to tampering with it = slightly - instead of the heys at the end, I have the men dance in a = line around behind the women, down the set and up their own side to = places, and then the women dance around the men. I think the = substitution is justified by the ease of teaching it, by the success the = dancers have, and because beginners like that figure a lot. I think a caller at a party or other one nighter is most certainly = justified in modifying a dance if it makes it accessible to the dancers. = For instance, I would never teach Indian Queen at a one nighter in the = form we all dance it. (First be sure that the crowd can handle a duple = minor (and many duple minors are not suitable for party crowds) ). For = Indian Queen the 3 changes of a circular hey must go - instead I tell = the actives to step down the outside past the 2nd couple (I do this = because I find it easier to teach than casting). The 8 beats you have = for the stepping down the outside gives lots of time for everyone to = adjust themselves to new positions.=20 I like to use set dances: Upon a Summer's Day, Durham Reel, Cumberland = Square 8, The Hunting of the Fox (from Millar's book), Rufty Tufty, = Sellenger's Round, Black Nag, Marlbrouk Cotillion, the New Rigged Ship = (from Millar's Country Dances of Colonial America, done as a 3 couple = dance rather than a triple minor) and a few duple minors with modified = ends such as Indian Queen, Money in Both Pockets, and Faithless Nancy = Dawson. I use Christchurch Bells in a Sicilian circle. I just can't = see the Bishop, Hole in the Wall, Come Let's Be Merry, Mulberry Garden = (the entire B section is problematic), Well Hall, St. Margaret's Hill, = Take A Dance (that crossover, half figure of 8, rights and lefts - too = much time and effort for a one nighter) and Geud Man of Ballangigh = (takes too much time for a set of all beginners to get oriented each = time once you're in the heat of the dance) at the one nighters and = parties I often call at - what a lot of work those dances would be! = Why do that to yourself and the dancers when there are many other nice = quickly taught dances? Part of the point of a one nighter is to make = the participants feel as though they did so much dancing with very = little help from you.=20 I offer slight apologies for going on at such length (this is too = interesting a subject to feel too many regrets!). Whatever program you = choose, Mary, will have a lot to teach you - figuring out why things = worked for you and why some things didn't. And almost more important = than anything else is making the dancers believe that you're really = happy to be there with them - they'll be almost endlessly forgiving if = you convince them of that. Much luck! Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ=09 dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:45:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 07:42:37 -0400 From: The Dupres Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Further Views on Party Dances To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BB2843.A5C21320-AT- dupre.nerc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I love teaching beginners! I love one night stands (shame on any of you = who even had a wisp of a prurient thought!)! I love the looks on faces = of people at parties who have just discovered that yes, they can dance, = and that yes, indeed, they're doing the right thing at the right time! = I love the silly things you can expect beginners to do (like the way = they often giggle lasciviously when you tell them that the name of this = figure is "strip the willow") and the way they get all excited about the = Virginia Reel because thank God, finally it's a dance they've seen = somewhere before! =20 As you may be able to tell, I have very fervent views about teaching = beginners and partygoers. I presume that we're all referring to = dance/party events at which every single person may be new to = traditional dancing, they're all there to have a great, sociable time = with each other, and they're not out to make an avocation of this = dancing thing. I agree with nearly everything Mike Barraclough said = about party dances and disagree with some of the specific dance = suggestions offered by others. A dance should be quickly taught - what = better than Sellenger's Round to get everyone moving with almost no = words. Be part of the circle and start slipping - they'll all move too. = Stop for a second and show the set and turn single (for a party does it = matter whether they set left or right or which way they turn single - of = course not!). Find efficient ways to describe figures - when I call for = a party, I usually call a "turn single" as a "whirl around" because = whirling around is already in the beginner's vocabulary of body = movement. Sellenger's Round is a great communal dance with a lively = tune and the dancers can look around and copy what everyone else is = doing. =20 Black Nag is a terrific party dance but for much different reasons than = Sellenger's Round is - it offers such interesting figures, and the music = seems to be irresistible. Inevitably, when I include it in a party = program, the crowd calls for encores and ask for it again later in the = evening. Beginners are very proud of themselves for mastering what = seems to be a complicated dance. However, I admit to tampering with it = slightly - instead of the heys at the end, I have the men dance in a = line around behind the women, down the set and up their own side to = places, and then the women dance around the men. I think the = substitution is justified by the ease of teaching it, by the success the = dancers have, and because beginners like that figure a lot. I think a caller at a party or other one nighter is most certainly = justified in modifying a dance if it makes it accessible to the dancers. = For instance, I would never teach Indian Queen at a one nighter in the = form we all dance it. (First be sure that the crowd can handle a duple = minor (and many duple minors are not suitable for party crowds) ). For = Indian Queen the 3 changes of a circular hey must go - instead I tell = the actives to step down the outside past the 2nd couple (I do this = because I find it easier to teach than casting). The 8 beats you have = for the stepping down the outside gives lots of time for everyone to = adjust themselves to new positions.=20 I like to use set dances: Upon a Summer's Day, Durham Reel, Cumberland = Square 8, The Hunting of the Fox (from Millar's book), Rufty Tufty, = Sellenger's Round, Black Nag, Marlbrouk Cotillion, the New Rigged Ship = (from Millar's Country Dances of Colonial America, done as a 3 couple = dance rather than a triple minor) and a few duple minors with modified = ends such as Indian Queen, Money in Both Pockets, and Faithless Nancy = Dawson. I use Christchurch Bells in a Sicilian circle. I just can't = see the Bishop, Hole in the Wall, Come Let's Be Merry, Mulberry Garden = (the entire B section is problematic), Well Hall, St. Margaret's Hill, = Take A Dance (that crossover, half figure of 8, rights and lefts - too = much time and effort for a one nighter) and Geud Man of Ballangigh = (takes too much time for a set of all beginners to get oriented each = time once you're in the heat of the dance) at the one nighters and = parties I often call at - what a lot of work those dances would be! = Why do that to yourself and the dancers when there are many other nice = quickly taught dances? Part of the point of a one nighter is to make = the participants feel as though they did so much dancing with very = little help from you.=20 I offer slight apologies for going on at such length (this is too = interesting a subject to feel too many regrets!). Whatever program you = choose, Mary, will have a lot to teach you - figuring out why things = worked for you and why some things didn't. And almost more important = than anything else is making the dancers believe that you're really = happy to be there with them - they'll be almost endlessly forgiving if = you convince them of that. Much luck! Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ=09 dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 09:58:38 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 10:01:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Sauvain Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Food at Pinewoods (No dance content) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960412170117.00838730-AT- uffa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been coming to Pinewoods for 10 years or so now, and think the food is - well, good (appetizing, varied, done on time). Maybe not delightful, but good. Much better than a couple other dance camps I've been to. Specific things I can think of to comment on: I love the homemade bread! A minor pet peeve is tea makers who don't get the teaball or bags out after 5 minutes -- maybe the dining hall manager could mention this to the volunteers? Great job of providing alternatives (veggie items, the PB&J etc. table up front ...)! We usually come to Family week, and that table is *so* attractive to kids who are out to explore their own preferences. -- Richard CR&T / ADSTC / Systems Architecture / Production Systems Architecture IntelNet 8*222-3379 Fax 8*225-7133 MailStop 128-29E Location: Webster, Bldg. 128 room 261I URL: http://www.nde.wrc.xerox.com/users/sauvain/sauvain.htm ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 10:25:37 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 13:17:09 -0400 From: Joe Shelby Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Proper cup of tea (was: Re: Food at Pinewoods (No dance content)) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9604121317.ZM6749-AT- ais.autometric.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT References: <2.2.32.19960412170117.00838730-AT- uffa> On Apr 12, 10:01am, Richard Sauvain wrote: > A minor pet peeve is tea makers who don't get the teaball or bags out after > 5 minutes -- maybe the dining hall manager could mention this to the > volunteers? well, there are those of us who prefer the tea to be _strong_, and gradually get weaker as we don't need it...i leave the bag in all morning and just keep adding water...by the time its too weak to drink i generally don't need it anymore...it'll time for a coke :) the new ACME instant geek: just add caffine :) joe b.t.w., i wrote a review of Bonnie Rideout's new album, Kindred Spirits... you can get to it through my home page (in my .sig file) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 05:19:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 13:19:00 -0300 (BST) From: Rhod Davies Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <9604151219.AA08155-AT- amu4.cs.man.ac.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT A lot of the dances from the later editions of Playford (and other sources of the same period, at the time when longways duple minor had become popular, use 3 changes of a circular hey to obtain the progression. Travelling around Britain calling some of these dances, I see many people dancing the 3 changes giving hands to the people they pass, and equally many not giving hands. Indeed the use of hands/no hands often varies within a single set unless dancers are specifically told whether to give hands or not. All of which leads up to my questions: Is there any historical evidence as to whether hands were given or not? Is there no evidence? Would it have changed from area to area and dance to dance at is does at the moment. Rhod ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 06:20:20 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:20:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Rhod Davies wrote: > > A lot of the dances from the later editions of Playford (and other > sources of the same period, at the time when longways duple minor had > become popular, use 3 changes of a circular hey to obtain the > progression. [snip] > All of which leads up to my questions: Is there any historical evidence > as to whether hands were given or not? Is there no evidence? Would > it have changed from area to area and dance to dance at is does at the > moment. > > Rhod > A good question, I think. Some of us over here think of there being at least two distinct figures, circular heys (without hands) and rights and lefts (with hands). There is also a component that maintains that square isn't round enough to be a circle -- that you need at least six to have a circular hey. However, I don't hold to that notion; I can conceptualize a circle with as few as three points (as can all geometers). Anyway, that is a separate question. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 06:33:39 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:34:37 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960415083437.453c-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I'm at work, away from my sources, but I think I remember that "Newcastle" is a "Circle for eight" and it invariably looks like a square when I do it. Anybody close to a 1650/51 who could respond? Forbes/Baker University ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 11:43:18 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:44:29 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >3 changes giving hands to the people they pass, and >equally many not giving hands. Hmm... We tell them, where I dance. It's not up to them. There's a correct way in each case and the leader has to know, or the floor corrects him/her. >Indeed the use of hands/no hands often >varies within a single set unless dancers are specifically told >whether to give hands or not. > >All of which leads up to my questions: Is there any historical evidence >as to whether hands were given or not? Is there no evidence? Would >it have changed from area to area and dance to dance at is does at the >moment. I love thinking of the heys as circles, but there is one 4-changes hey which seems to me to collapse into a hey for four across the set, because it happens so quickly. That's the one in Collier's Daughter, where there's so little music that everyone cuts the corners and the things turns to mush visually unless you think about how to make it look like something. When I do the dance, I often wonder just what the print says. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Elegance & Simplicity:Fine Art Photography Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll den Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 12:30:56 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:30:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT My notes for "The Salutation" in Nicholas Broadbridge's reconstruction have the hey with hands, but appended to that is the comment that Jacqueline Schwab preferred it without hands when she taught it... Tom Cook's interpretation of the same source changes the timing to give twice as much time for the hey, turning each change into a "Hole in the Wall" passing. It seems to me that IF any of the sources had bothered to specify precisely how it was to be done, that was probably an indication that it wasn't always done one way; else there would be no need to put folks right about it (but where does that leave us?!?). Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 12:37:11 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 15:37:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: [snip] > We tell them, where I dance. It's not up to them. There's a correct way > in each case and the leader has to know, or the floor corrects him/her. Emily, perhaps you'd be willing to make a few Xerox copies of your floor, and circulate them around . . . {;^} Now we know what it means when a caller has been "floored"! Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 16:47:48 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 19:49:01 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >On Mon, 15 Apr 1996, Emily L. Ferguson wrote: > > [snip] > >> We tell them, where I dance. It's not up to them. There's a correct way >> in each case and the leader has to know, or the floor corrects him/her. > >Emily, perhaps you'd be willing to make a few Xerox copies of your floor, >and circulate them around . . . {;^} > >Now we know what it means when a caller has been "floored"! > >Eric Arnold >Ann Arbor Ha, ha, ha :>) That's just the kind of thing that's in my book, because I'll be damned if I can remember for all the dances we do in Boston. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Elegance & Simplicity:Fine Art Photography Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll den Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:48:12 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 09:48:12 -0700 (PDT) From: laurieb-AT- cirl.uoregon.edu (Laurie Buchanan) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Proper cup of tea (was: Re: Food at Pinewoods (No dance content)) To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Richard Sauvain wrote: >A minor pet peeve is tea makers who don't get the teaball or bags out after >5 minutes -- maybe the dining hall manager could mention this to the >volunteers? and Joe Shelby added: >well, there are those of us who prefer the tea to be _strong_, and >gradually get weaker as we don't need it...i leave the bag in all >morning and just keep adding water...by the time its too weak to drink >i generally don't need it anymore...it'll time for a coke :) I was going to respond to Richard that as a first time Dining Hall Manager this summer, and fellow tea drinker, I would be pleased to remember his suggestion, but now what can I say? No matter what we do, it can't possibly please everyone. Flexibility may be the answer here. I envision two sets of tea pots those for the strong and those for the weak (tea that is!) :-) Cheers, Laurie --- Laurie Buchanan Eugene, OR ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:59:16 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 14:55:46 -0700 From: cclark-AT- vicon.net (A., C., & M. Clark) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Newcastle To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604162155.OAA06180-AT- phoenix> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I'm at work, away from my sources, but I think I remember that "Newcastle" >is a "Circle for eight" and it invariably looks like a square when I do it. >Anybody close to a 1650/51 who could respond? > >Forbes/Baker University Newcastle is supposed to be "round for eight." The difference seems to have been that a square was numbered 1-2-3-4 around, while a round wasn't so numbered but usually (not always) had at least one figure divided into the first four dancers (two couples facing) and the other four. The other difference is that the round dances had fairly standard formats, while the squares tended to be much more unusual. Newcastle is actually intermediate by both criteria. The instructions once refer to the couples by numbers (to say that people are dancing with the ones who started out across from them), as if the circle were numbered like a square. And Newcastle has the least standard choreography of the five rounds for eight in the first edition. Alex Clark cclark-AT- vicon.net (author/publisher of _Court_and_Country_Dances_of_the_Renaissance_in_England_and_France_) ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:51:46 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 22:53:03 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Not Quite Shaw To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I've been looking through Barnes'95's biblio and wondering whether anyone has a copy of Not Quite Shaw I could get a copy of. Anyone out there? Also Hold the Mustard 2. Is that just tunes? for the band of that name? Thanks. Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Elegance & Simplicity:Fine Art Photography Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll den Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 19:52:06 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 22:53:18 -0500 From: eferguson-AT- umassd.edu (Emily L. Ferguson) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: NEFFA To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I know lots of you may not be there, and perhaps some of you aren't aware that rec.folk.dancing always has a brief get together on Sunday morning in the cafeteria. But I wonder whether we might consider such a thing for this list. It would be fun to get faces attached to names and perhaps the local subscribers from other dance communities might find it fun to go to NEFFA. Anybody? Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts Elegance & Simplicity:Fine Art Photography Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- ************ Man soll den Tag nicht vor dem Abend loben. ************ No matter which side of the fence you're on, the grass will always turn brown if you don't water it. ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:11:29 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:12:53 -0400 From: mgoodman-AT- albany.net (Mary Beth Goodman) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NEFFA To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >I know lots of you may not be there, and perhaps some of you aren't aware >that rec.folk.dancing always has a brief get together on Sunday morning in >the cafeteria. But I wonder whether we might consider such a thing for >this list. It would be fun to get faces attached to names and perhaps the >local subscribers from other dance communities might find it fun to go to >NEFFA. > >Anybody? > > Emily L. Ferguson - Cape Cod, Massachusetts > Elegance & Simplicity:Fine Art Photography > Photographer, English Country Dance leader, weaver/spinner > I'll be there Emily, if the feet will bear me.... Mary Beth <-- ready for yearly contra blow out! ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 20:52:57 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:52:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Arnold Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: NEFFA To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT I and a Gaggle of other of other Michiganders & Michigeese (we dance in longways V formations for as many as bill) who do ECD will be there -- not all of us are participating in this list, but at least several are aware of it. Might be interested in some sort of meeting; definitely interested in connecting real people with names. Eric Arnold Ann Arbor ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:24:28 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 00:23:58 -0400 From: EngDancer-AT- aol.com Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604170423.AAA06753-AT- emout06.mail.aol.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Because so many of us are coming at different times and days, how about if we were to wear a ribbon (say silver) or some such thing (I vote no on the Bozo nose) so that at any given moment we can come upon each other shrieking: so it's you!!! Mary (Decorum Is My Middle Name) Jones ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 14:03:27 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:03:09 -0400 From: renee-AT- ai.mit.edu (Renee Camus) Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: morris-AT- indycms.iupui.edu, ecd-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <199604172103.RAA12848-AT- guppy.ai.mit.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT rendance-AT- morgan.ucs.mun.ca Subject: Teacher wanted WANTED, NEEDED: TEACHER FOR CHILDREN'S MORRIS TEAM IN BOSTON AREA Banbury Cross, an established children's Morris Team in the Boston Area, is looking for a new teacher. We are currently a team of 10 kids, aged 10-14, that dances primarily cotswold morris, but has been known to do a sword dance or two. Our current teacher is moving away at the end of the summer, and we are looking to find a new teacher before this season is out (ie: May/June). We rehearse in the First Unitarian Society in West Newton, MA, on Wednesday evenings from 6:15 to 7:30. We are currently dancing in the Fieldtown and Upton-on-Severn traditions, but that is of course negotiable. They are really good kids, and the parents are very kind, and really helpful! Please send questions and/or interest ASAP to renee-AT- ai.mit.edu. And Please spread the word to email-impaired interested parties. Thanks Renee Camus on behalf of Banbury Cross Morris ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 15:09:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:08:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Colin Hume <100116.165-AT- CompuServe.COM> Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: 3 changes of circular hey To: ECD Mailing List Message-ID: <960417220802_100116.165_EHQ101-3-AT- CompuServe.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT The original 18th century books often say "Right Hand and Left", so my guess is that people used hands. Scottish (RSCDS) dancers always do so, but in England people used to be taught that you never gave hands in three or four changes of a circular hey. However, they didn't have any evidence for this; it's just the way they learnt it. I think giving hands is friendlier, and also means you can help an inexperienced dancer. Sometimes (and you also get this in a Grimstock hey) the caller will say "You shouldn't really give hands, but if you need to it's all right." This of course ensures that nobody gives hands! The phrase "circular hey" was invented by Cecil Sharp, and I really don't believe that "rights and lefts" is a separate figure. Since he invented it, and did it with four people, I don't accept anyone saying that you need at least six to have a circular hey. Colin Hume London, England ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 16:53:24 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 18:54:17 -0500 (CDT) From: FORBES-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: <960417185417.5853-AT- GEORGE.BAKERU.EDU> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Congratulations on your team. We send you greetings from the Old Castle Morris and Garland Team, Baldwin City, Kansas. We are actually two teams. The boys do morris (a little bit each of Adderbury, Litchfield, Headington, Kirkby-Malzeard [sp?]) while the girls perform garland, a touch of NW Morris, Bacca Pipes. Both teams combine for Playford. We are on our third team (start young, follow through until they graduate from HS, start again) and they are currently 4th through 8th grade, 12 girls and 7 boys. The girls, I forgot to mention, do a 3-figure Maypole routine, very big this time of year. We advertise our selves as "Have Maypole, will travel" and as "The only teen age Morris and Garland Team in America---In Captivity." Perhaps we could get our teams together sometime. Good luck on finding a super teacher. Those who don't volunteer better not complain about where the next Morris generation is coming from! John Forbes/Muso, Old Castle Morris and Garland ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:19:14 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 00:12:12 -0400 From: The Dupres Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Hold The Mustard 2 To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BB2CC4.CC2AF4C0-AT- dupre.nerc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Emily, I wasn't sure exactly what you were asking when you inquired = about Hold the Mustard 2, so forgive me if I tell you things you already = know. Hold the Mustard is/was a band from central NJ, playing a = repertoire of both English and contra dance music. I said "was" because = their original pianist, Eric Scott, died several years ago - when the = band plays now, they play as Hold The Mustard with "Jane Doe" (whatever = pianist they are working with for a given job). I think the pianist = they most often work with is Kathy Talvitie. Hold the Mustard itself is = Barbara Greenberg (fiddler), Dan Beerbohm (clarinet, pennywhistle) and = Paul Prestopino=20 (a virtuoso on many stringed instruments and harmonica). I know of 3 = recordings: the first was an album of contra dance music, the second = was a very fine recording of historic and contemporary English country = dance music (played to be danceable), and the third was a recording = (just in cassette format, I think) to accompany Fried Herman's book = "It's Easy .... if you know where you're going ... " I assume you were = referring to that 2nd recording of ECD dance tunes - it's called = "English Country Dance Favorites," and it contains Jack's Health, Round = About the Coal Fire, Sion House, St. Martin's Lane, Hambleton's Round O, = From Aberdeen, K & E, Wooin' Mairi, Siege of Limerick, Round Pond, = Walpole Cottage and Duke of Kent's Waltz. It should be available from = the Country Dance & Song Society at 413/584-9913 (also at = sales-AT- cdss.org, I think). If that really is what you're looking for and = if it should not be available from CDSS, I can tell you how to reach the = band itself.=20 Crossing my fingers and hoping I haven't totally misunderstood the = question, Sue Dupre Lawrenceville, NJ dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com=20 ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 22:19:25 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 01:16:17 -0400 From: The Dupres Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Wonderful English Dancing This Summer To: 'ECD List' Message-ID: <01BB2CC4.D30BD200-AT- dupre.nerc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A good midnight to you all! =20 Please forgive me this venture into blatant commercialism, but I'm about = to shamelessly promote the wonderful opportunities to dance, make music = and party in the hills of eastern West Virginia this summer. I'm = program director for English-American Week at Buffalo Gap Camp, = happening July 13-20, and I've put together a program featuring Scott = Higgs, one of the finest English dance teachers in the U.S. Exceptional = English dance music will be provided by Kathy Talvitie, Doug Creighton, = Andrea Hoag, and Toppy Kramer. In addition to basic and experienced = English country dance classes, there'll be an assortment of classes in = English ritual dance (molly dance and sword dance), Cape Breton step = dancing, contra and square dancing, and music-making (beginning = recorder, fiddle, singing, and an opportunity to play in an early = chamber music ensemble). Nightingale, the very hot contra dance band = from New England, will play their own lyrical blend of Cape Breton and = French-Canadian tunes for the American dance program. Spaces are still = available for the week - you can contact the Country Dance and Song = Society (sponsor of the week) at 413/584-9913 or through camp-AT- cdss.org = or you can e-mail me at dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com for information. =20 So what a deal, huh?! Another chance, besides NEFFA, to get together = with English dance lovers in a very beautiful place and schmooze = endlessly about this subject near and dear to our hearts! But be warned = - I plan to host a rock and roll party some night at camp and play = Pyewacket's Moll Pately til someone does me in.=20 Regards,=09 Sue Dupre Home: dupre-AT- nerc1.nerc.com Work: dupre-AT- princeton.edu ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 11:16:02 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:11:41 -0400 From: Barbara Ruth Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Subject: Re: Wonderful English Dancin To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Message-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Reply to: RE>Wonderful English Dancing This Summer Sue Dupre wrote: >Please forgive me this venture into blatant commercialism, but I'm about to shamelessly promote the wonderful opportunities to dance, make music and party in the hills of eastern West Virginia this summer. I'm program director for English-American Week at Buffalo Gap Camp, happening July 13-20, and I've put together a program featuring Scott Higgs, one of the finest English dance teachers in the U.S. Exceptional English dance music will be provided by Kathy Talvitie, Doug Creighton, Andrea Hoag, and Toppy Kramer. In addition to basic and experienced English country dance classes, there'll be an assortment of classes in English ritual dance (molly dance and sword dance), Cape Breton step dancing, contra and square dancing, and music-making (beginning recorder, fiddle, singing, and an opportunity to play in an early chamber music ensemble). Nightingale, the very hot contra dance band from New England, will play their own lyrical blend of Cape Breton and French-Canadian tunes for the American dance program. < etc. etc. And anyone who doesn't know that Sue Dupre is one of the most charming, sparkling, delightful leaders in English/Contra and ritual dance around must have been living in a barn for the past 10 years. I had my application made out as soon as I heard who the Program Director was going to be, and I urge anyone looking for a truly delightful dance experience to sign up. Sue, will husband Bob be along, leading far-into-the-night sing-alongs? (Said, even though you and your fellow sword/Morris/Molly dancers have stabbed New Haven Morris through the heart yet again by foregoing the Mixed Morris Ale in favor of dancing somewhere else. But . . . we forgive you). Barbara Ruth Publicity Czarina for New Haven Morris and Sword ================================================================================ Archive-Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 19:28:35 PST Sender: owner-ecd-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 19:28:32 -0800 (PST) From: Alan Winston - SSRL Central Computing Subject: "Playford" Balls in your area? To: ECD-AT- SSRL04.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU Reply-To: ECD-AT- playford.slac.stanford.edu Message-ID: <009A140A.5B5E9016.3-AT- ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Folks -- In the San Francisco Bay Area, there is an annual "Playford" Ball. I put "Playford" in quotes here because there is no restriction to Playford dances, or even to pre-twentieth century dances. (Which is fine with me, as it makes for a more varied and fun program.) The Ball is unquestionably the highlight of the English dance season, and it attracts people from the (much larger) contra dance community as well. It is understood that dances will get one talk-through, rather than being taught, and the most complicated dances will be done "for those who know" (or think they can fake it). The Ball program is distributed six months in advance, and the local dance series will try to cover all the dances on Ball program; there's also a rehearsal dance the night before the Ball. The Ball itself has 150 - 200 attendees, most of them dressed to the nines, some in costume from various periods ranging from 1650 - 1880. The hall is decorated according to some theme, there are amazing refreshments (with names based on country dances; eg, Mr. Maggot's Beverage, a rhubarb punch called Juice of Barbley, a chocolate concoction called Lacks Health) and a good time is apparently had by all. (There's certainly some angst among some people who worry about having learned all the dances, and seem to feel it's like a final exam. There's also some gender imbalance. Attention is paid to making sure everybody dances, but it's possible some don't dance as much as they might like.) It's definitely lovely to have an opportunity to see all these people dressed up, and there's no stigma on not dressing up very far. The event is run by a largish committee open to anyone who wants to serve on it. There is a chair, but decisions seem to be made (by my observation the year I served on the committee) by a combination of consensus and appeal to tradition. Various mechanisms seem to have been used to select the dancing master, but it is typically some local English caller (and we have some fine ones), who then selects musicians and hires musicians. (They are not usually hired in the form of a band, and generally are named individually on flyers rather than as a band.) The Ball has been going on for about 15 years, and people come from all